Mar 04, 2019 Traffic Safety Commission on 2019-03-04 5:30 PM

>> Hello, good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Traffic Safety Commission meeting of Monday, March 4th, 2019. It is 533 and we do have a quorum. The first item of business is 1A under items for consideration. It is TSC19-014 to consider the approval of the minutes for the Traffic Safety Commission meeting on February 4th, 2019. Did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes? Were there any amendments or does anybody want to move for approval? >> I move for approval. >> Okay, approval? >> Second. >> We have a second. Anybody have any amendments? Okay, all right, everyone in favor, raise your right hand, try that this time. Okay, and unanimously approved. The next item for consideration, 1B is TSC19-015 which is to receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding capital improvements to downtown Mew Streets which include Pecan, Austin, Walnut and Cedar. >> Good evening. I'm Michael Smith with the CIP Department and I'm going to give a presentation here on Mews and essentially we're in the conceptual phase of this project right now and a lot of this project was reaching out and getting feedback from the community. So tonight we'll discuss the project status and goals, existing conditions. We'll look at, you know, what the streets look like today. Then we're going to look at the public engagement activities that we did. We got a lot of feedback and changed some of the features of the project based on that feedback. Then we're going to talk about the proposed improvements and beautification options. We'll touch a little bit on solid waste and some of the feedback that we got from the community on solid waste and then we'll talk about project element and the costs that go along with those. So from the inception, the main goal was to provide beautification of the Mew Streets. And maybe I should go back and discuss what the Mew Streets are. It's an archaic term that came out of the 1700s and it essentially refers to a row of houses or stables, carriage houses with living quarters above them. And they were usually around a courtyard or square. In our case, they're around a very large square. So the street's just outside the square. So the main goals were to provide pedestrian accessibility and beautification. We finished the public engagement portion of this project and we have a few recommendations that we're moving forward on. So as mentioned in the introduction, Cedar Street, a pilot project was done on Cedar Street. We had a $800,000 grant that was given to us. And so Cedar Street is pretty much already complete as far as it was envisioned a number of years ago. And that's on the east and then we have Pecan on the north, Austin on the, I'm sorry, Austin on the east and Walnut Street on the south. So essentially, this is what we have going on right now. The new streets are basically the alleys that are behind all the squares, the businesses. They've been used as an alley, you know, for a number of years. So this is where, this is what we have. So we have a number of garbage dumpsters all along the street. As you can see on this street, there is no sidewalk on either side. There's no accessibility on either side. And then in the lower picture, on the right-hand side we have steps which also, you know, inhibits accessibility so we don't have step, you know, we don't have accessibility throughout these streets. And that was one of the main issues that we wanted to address. So this is sort of a path on where we've been, where we started off and where we're going. We started off with website and social media, you know, to get the information out on the project. And then we hosted office hours. So two of us sat down there, we invited all the businesses that are on the Mew streets and the surrounding streets, courthouse businesses, and invited them in so we could have a discussion, find out, you know, what their needs were, what their issues were, and, you know, ways to address those needs and issues. Then we had a public open house. We had, you know, a couple dozen people that showed up for the public open house. And we got a lot of feedback from them and we'll go over that feedback in a few minutes. And, you know, a couple dozen really doesn't, you know, give you a firm grasp of what people really want. So then we went out and we did a survey monkey and we, you know, broadcast that out wide and we got 687 respondents which was, you know, kind of, you know, beefs up the information that we had to date. And then we're going to city council presentation on March 19. So some of the feedback that we received was two-way streets. We initially proposed just going with one-way streets going counter to the direction that the courthouse is going. But we heard feedback from, you know, a couple dozen people that said really two-way streets, you know, is going to be better for the business. It's going to have less adverse impact. You know, one-way streets, they were afraid that they would lose business that way. So we ended up taking that feedback and so all our proposals now went to two-way streets. Safety improvements needed, survey monkey especially, there were dozens of people who talked about the lack of lighting and the sidewalks, you know, that they had to traverse. You know, they didn't feel safe at night especially several people pointed out, you know, that they were women, you know, so there was just, you know, a lot of concern for that. Especially since a lot of these people that are walking at night, you know, that had some of these concerns are the people that are closing down a restaurant. So, you know, the bars close at 2 o'clock so they're at 2.30, 3 o'clock, you know, walking the streets and they wanted, you know, more light and, you know, a safer feel, better sidewalks. Solid waste, we will go into that a little bit more but a preference was valet service and we'll discuss that in a few minutes. And then they were also, people were interested in seeing a loading schedule where, you know, the delivery trucks just wouldn't show up whenever they wanted to but they would show up at a scheduled time. Now that's obviously really hard to enforce and so we didn't delve into that too much but that was one of the feedbacks that we received. So proposed street cross section, we have traffic in both directions and parallel parking on both sides of the street. The basic, you know, would include a couple of lights and a few trees and accessible sidewalks on both sides of the street. So we looked at, you know, what were the bare minimum that we needed to get and then we looked at an intermediate plan and, you know, adding different features as we go along. So the bare minimum plan obviously was the sidewalks and curb ramps, all ADA compliant. Then we had pedestrian and street lighting and you can see an example of the lights that we have around one of our parking lots now, we would use these same lights. And then we're looking for crosswalks and traffic calming to get, you know, the vehicles to slow down. Trash receptacles would be, you know, important as well as bike racks. And then DME is in the process of-- they're going to be wrapping most of their transformers in a vinyl wrap that gives them a nicer, you know, a nicer appeal and that's in the works. So the basic-- so that was the basic plan. So options that we can do to make it look a little bit better was we can increase the amount of landscaping that we have. We can increase the number of trees. We can put planters there. The bike racks could be, you know, the musical note D, you know, instead of the mundane ones. And then we could add things like street lighting. We could add some street furniture, you know, benches and some other things. So and then we'll-- so this is the basic layout and this is just a few trees. It is with a few street lights and again, you know, two-way traffic and parallel parking on the streets and then the enhanced option adds trees. It adds some additional plantings and it adds the red brick or the pavers, you know, enhancements. This is similar to what's on Cedar and on the square, you know, would just, you know, make it pop a little bit more. And then we have the luxury version. Luxury version, again, additional trees, additional plantings. We could have the string lights that are located on the street. And in this case, we would have additional pavers, you know, the crosswalks would have pavers and the parking spaces would have pavers or stamped colored concrete. Probably, you know, for the sidewalks, it would probably be the pavers. For the parking spaces, it would be the stamped colored concrete because the street sweepers do much better with that type of layout as opposed to the-- as opposed to doing pavers. You know, pavers are, you know, you fill them, you know, they're supposed to be permeable. You fill them with sand, you know, to allow that to work. And in this case, the street sweeper would essentially take out the sand. So solid waste, dumpster service is inefficient, competes with available parking. As you can see here, we wouldn't be able to park, you know, along this section of the street. There's-- we've had lots of complaints about the odors and about the aesthetics. They've also had a lot of waste-- solid waste has had a lot of problems with illegal dumping too. When you have all these dumpsters lined up, you know, people are cleaning out their apartment at the end of the semester or they have a construction project at home and they just-- they bring their trash with them and dump here. There's a capacity issues right now. We'll discuss the number but essentially the capacity is not being met. We would need even more dumpsters than we're seeing here and not only just the trash but also the recycling. And safety concerns, you know, you have the trucks going down these streets, you know, that's a safety concern. And during special events, a lot of the streets are blocked off, you know, are not traversable and so they're not able to be serviced during the special events. And that's especially critical because we generate more trash during the special events than we do, you know, all the other times. So currently on the Mew streets, there's 13 waste and 11 recycle. They're anticipating that we would need a minimum to add three trash dumpsters and two recycle just to get current capacity. And the problem with current capacity is we're expecting that the amount of people visiting the square is going to go up. You know, we have a new university opening up that is in downtown. They don't have a commissary so we anticipate the people that are in between classes will be coming over here, you know, and, you know, coming in the square and giving their business to, you know, getting their coffee or getting their lunch. So, you know, while that is the, you know, 13 and 11, it's only going to go up from there. They're serviced four to six times per week for 65 total stops. And then, again, they're taking up space that could be used for parking spaces. So we presented different options both in the public meeting and in the Survey Monkey. And the options were one was a valet service. You know, private company is going to come in and collect the trash. They would, you know, it would probably be a subcontract, you know, the solid waste would manage. And they would have to essentially go around all night long and they would pick up trash, you know, during the peak hours, you know, to keep it going. Then all that trash would be taken to compactors and we'll look at the location for that in just a moment. And that way it's one trip per week to service recycling and one trip to service the trash, the recycling and one for trash. The second option was employees of each business would essentially cart their garbage, you know, to one of the locations to a compactor. And then the third option was to install two dumpsters on all, you know, on all four corners essentially of the Mew Streets and have people take their trash to those dumpsters. So, based on the feedback that we received, SurveyMonkey, you know, the valet, this is out of a score of out of 6, you know, 2.23. For the open house, the people that actually did submit forms, we had a lot of people that favored that option. And then, you know, the, you know, option 2 and option 3 were not far behind from the SurveyMonkey standpoint but were further behind based on the open house. >> May I ask, who funds the valet service? Is that the businesses will pay for the valet service? >> The businesses, the idea behind it would be that the businesses do pay. Right now, they're paying on their electric bill, they're paying for those services already. >> Right. >> So, there would, an additional study would need to be done to figure out how much, you know, the restaurants obviously would need to pay a larger portion because they would be serviced more than a business that, you know, only has, you know, a minimum amount of trash. >> Okay. So, the city would contract with a private business but that cost would be rolled in to the monthly bill proportionately? >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> The proposed compactor location, this is a parking lot that we have already, this is an older photo, doesn't show the parking lot. But this is where the compactors would go. It was envisioned years ago when that, or a couple of years ago when they did this parking lot that they could put compactors here. So, it's already set up for electrical. I mean, it's set up to be fully functional at this point. Solid waste, you know, is envisioning, you know, something like a, you know, all-train vehicle but it would, you know, something that would pull a trailer around. So, that's part of the envision. You know, a lot of this was conceptual. So, once we have direction, I think, you know, we'll do full design and then we'll investigate, you know, the types of businesses that are already doing this in other cities, you know, because Valley Service is becoming more and more common especially in areas where they have, you know, a lot of pedestrians, you know, and they want to, you know, draw in more people. >> Do you think this would save them any money if people are illegally dumping? I don't know how they pay now but would it save them from having to worry about people coming and dumping? >> Yes, it would eliminate illegal dumping because those dumpsters, you know, just aren't available for them to, you know, drive up and then unload. So, the compactors would be in a remote, you know, or remote locations. You know, they would be fenced so that they look, you know, pretty and it would be a lot harder for somebody to dump. Not saying that they couldn't do it or-- >> Is that the approximate size of the footprint for a compactor? >> No, the-- >> Or how big is-- >> There'd be two of them at each site. So, they're about-- and I don't have the numbers in front of me. This solid waste would have those numbers. I want to say that they were about 15 to 20 feet in length and they're about 6 to 8 feet wide and there'd be two of them side by side. >> They're compact compactors. >> They are, yes. >> OK. >> And then recommendations, solid waste recommendations, the valet service is probably, you know, it's probably been a long time in the coming. You know, the number of dumpsters is not sufficient for what is currently going on the new streets and we only need to add more dumpsters and then if we get more traffic from the university students, you know, we're going to need even more dumpsters. And so, it's a never ending problem unless we go, you know, with a different option and the valet service is working in several other cities right now and so, very interested in exploring that idea for the city of Denton. And as part of the service, you know, they could do the sidewalk cleaning. We, you know, every week we get complaints, you know, that there's a mess on the sidewalk at, you know, at different locations and so that could be rolled into this service as well. And then grease trap service, we can get the grease traps off the new streets and into a more remote location. There's more investigation that needs to be done, you know, in that type of service. So, you know, in a new building, they build in, you know, receptacles that can be evacuated from an outside source but we're dealing with historic buildings here so that's not really an option. So, we're looking at a couple of different possibilities, you know, to get that working. So, and then, yeah, landscape or screening walls would be around the compactors. Did I skip one? No. So, this is the breakdown on cost. Cedar Street would remain as is. You know, we had the grant that allowed us to construct that street and then Pecan Street, Austin Street, Walnut Street, you know, we have different options, you know, from the basic, you know, the fewest aesthetic, you know, application to the enhanced and then the luxury. So, and again, we're looking at construction could begin as early as 2020. Design would take, you know, this entire year and then includes inflation and contingency cost. >> There's-- excuse me. There's a dumpster out behind Den Community Theater on Cedar. Would that stay or go? Assuming that we go to valet. >> My guess is that if we went to valet that that would be removed. But, you know, there's a lot of flexibility in how we set up the valet and what needs to stay or, you know, that one's a little bit more out of the way than some of the other ones, you know. We can still-- we still have accessible sidewalks on Cedar, you know, so that's, you know, there's flexibility but I would imagine that the valet would take care of there. >> Yeah, I've used those handicapped spots there. And it is kind of gross if you're the parking spot closest to the dumpster. >> Yeah. >> But I do like the improvements have been made to Cedar because sometimes when we're going to the theater, we have to park down at that parking lot by Old West and go up the street and it's been much nicer. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask one more question about Cedar since that's kind of what it kind of could look like in some respects? It does look really good. I was curious though, it still seems like it's kind of dark on Cedar like the-- was the new lighting down there too? >> No, the lighting that's on Cedar right now is the aggregate lighting so it's the ones that we're looking at right now, you know, are the more historic looking lights. If I can get back to that. So, like there on the right hand side there, that's more along the lights that we would have there. And I think if you looked at that parking lot, you would see that it's a much better lit. Cedar Street, it would be very easy to add a few more lights to Cedar Street if needed. >> You said Cedar is already done? >> Yes, we received a grant a number of years ago and so we did Cedar at a level that the grant allowed us to construct it to. But there are additional enhancements that we could do to Cedar if-- >> Did you bring any pictures? >> I'm sorry? >> You got any pictures of Cedar? >> No, but I could pull up-- I could pull up the internet. >> I've got it up if you want to look at my computer, Jeff. Do you want to look at it? [ Inaudible Remarks ] >> No, let me pull it up. [ Laughter ] >> It's a race. >> I'm sorry? >> It's a race. >> We've got to win. >> Come on. >> Oh, no, pre-tem is pretty fast. >> This computer is pretty slow too, so it has sidewalks. [ Inaudible Remarks ] >> Yeah. >> I got another question. >> On the city survey that was done, did you have any questions about this, the MUSE? >> Yes, the majority of the questions in the survey related to the MUSE streets. I mean, that was pretty much the driving factor. There was one or-- we had three or four questions that talked about the different areas like remote parking that was available and the city a few years ago and so we put it in the questionnaire was playing with the idea of maybe, you know, would we get better turnover parking spots if we actually put in meters around the square. So we included some questions along those lines as well just to get feedback and see what people thought of that. >> What-- was there any consideration to cameras, video for security? >> No. We didn't address that in this one. So mostly as far as security, we were increasing the lighting and providing sidewalks. >> What was the feedback on the parking spots? >> People were very passionate about the parking spots. >> About keeping them free? >> A number of people were-- that was their main goal. It was to keep them free. There were a number of people though that were-- that actually liked the idea. They said, "We don't have a parking problem. We have a walking problem. You know, we need to be willing to walk a couple of blocks." You know, and then maybe the ones, you know, we do meters and then more handicapped accessible on the square so that, you know, the majority of those are handicapped and metered. >> Right. >> So-- or they're all metered and handicapped, you know, doesn't have to pay into the-- >> You know, was it businesses that tended to oppose the free parking or the idea of metered parking or was it-- >> There were a few businesses that oppose that but there were a few businesses that really said, you know, it doesn't impact us one way or the other. >> Well, I think it-- that's the thing I never-- I think it would impact them. It would increase their business if we have metered parking. But that's why I'm always surprised. It seems like they advocate against their own interest and people park their cars there who aren't their customers for 12 hours at a time to, you know, advertise flat earth, you know, theories and things. >> Yes. >> Instead of a customer. So, anyway, I'm just curious because I think that could be part of this ecosystem fixing some of the parking walking issues within the ecosystem. >> Yeah. I didn't get that far into the backup. I did not complete my homework, I'm sorry. But was there a recommendation-- did you get as far as a potential recommendation for paid parking on the square? >> No. >> You just-- so far, you're just like-- >> We're just-- >> Running that up the flagpole. >> You know, kind of putting our feet in the water to see, you know, what would happen. >> OK. >> That was not supposed to be part of the muse but we figured it was a good opportunity since we're doing the survey. >> To ask. >> To ask the question. >> OK. OK. OK. Yeah. Because I'm on that same page of paid parking is not a bad thing. And I think that-- I took a look. So I've got ParkMobile, of course. And so I was at Deep Elm the other night and for four hours, I parked for $4. Now, you can-- on ParkMobile, you can comparison shop, you know, just move your little body around and see how much it is to park in Dallas and park in Denton. All of the Denton sites are significantly more expensive than Dallas. >> Wow. Interesting. >> Yeah. So comparison shopping. Denton is really-- it's the-- where there is paid parking not only downtown because we've got a couple of ParkMobile spots downtown Denton but at the university, I mean, just citywide, we're hot. So that could be hurting the overall perception of paid parking and that, you know, could be something that if we re-evaluate the fee structure, maybe more people would agree to paid parking. But that's just an editorial comment. >> Yeah. We've discussed that. One last thing I'll say on it 'cause I'm very passionate. I think there should be paid parking on the square. But it would also move employees potentially, the people who are familiar with the area who are employees to the remote parking, there would be good options to start using that as opposed to like the people who come downtown every once in a while who don't know the area as well and would be willing to pay to park downtown. Okay. I'll quit. I know that's not your-- >> It's not on our agenda but we have opinions. >> I think it's part of this discussion now. >> With all the new signs that have just been put down there, people have commented even in the survey that it was much easier to find the remote parking all of, you know, because there's, you know, they're directed to it. >> Yeah. >> Which is nice. And there's I think 11 sites we counted that, you know, within two or three blocks of downtown. >> Right. Yeah. Signs are great. >> One last parking for me in these new streets. Will you be adding some handicap spaces? >> I would imagine that we would put in several handicap spaces sort of like what's on Cedar right now. There would be several that would be dedicated to that along the stretch. >> Good. >> So, you know, as part of doing the design phase which would be the next phase after conceptual, you know, those are the types of things we would look at and, you know, there's criteria for how many, you know, handicap spots you should have and we would, you know, the design engineers would factor that in to their decisions. >> On the parking thing, would this be the two-hour parking? >> I'm sorry, the two? >> The two-hour parking. >> Oh, yes, this would remain the-- I think it would, yeah. Remain two-hour parking. >> And the enforcement responsibility would be the city of Denton? >> Yes, but right now, you know, the city has limited number of people doing enforcement, so they only make it down to the square maybe twice a year. So we're not-- >> You said that out loud. >> I'm sorry. Yeah, I guess that's for everybody to know. But if we went to paid parking, you know, that, you know, and create-- you know, creates its own, you know, enforcement. And that, you know, creates an additional revenue stream, you know, that we could, you know, you know, add additional parking maybe or do something else. >> Not yourself a little parking benefit district right there. >> So this is Cedar Street. You can see the light. It's similar to the other one, you know, it's got a light on top but it's the aggregate poles which are a little bit of an older pole. Wait, are we looking at the same? Yeah, it's just-- [ Inaudible Remark ] It probably was that style. The aggregate poles were around for a long time. We no longer install them. Any chance that we have to replace them, we replace them with the new concrete poles which are just a white pole. >> One thing on lighting, are there any dark sky friendly lighting that would fit into the design scheme of the old timey lights that we're installing instead of sending this light up into the sky directing it down to the ground? >> Yeah, that's probably a better question for DME. I mean, we could get them incorporated in this but these lights, I'm not sure what the selection criteria was for these lights, I don't know, Preetam, if you happen to know. They wanted historic-- they wanted nicer looking lights that looked more historic. >> So I think the original design for these lights the way they are went through a whole process of selection and I think it went to the-- at the time, it probably went to the business association owners and this was selected as part of the historical district or area which means the downtown square and up and down Hank Green Oak. So that's where-- that's the only part in the city that these are installed. And I don't believe at this time that that is consistent with our dark skies or it could be modified and that's something that could be incorporated in our criteria when we move to the design phase. >> Yeah. >> That would be helpful. >> Yeah, I really second that and I'm also thinking about people who are more and more occupying apartments in the square. Like if you're right above that street light-- >> Your bedroom is lit up. >> Yeah, you got a street light, I mean, which of course, that's the price to do a business. You know, if you want to live on the square, you've got those things happening. But the more we direct the light on the actual sidewalk and on pedestrians, it's just-- it looks better and it's better. >> So we're getting that in the minutes, right? [ Laughter ] >> So, you know, the railings, probably wouldn't have as many railings as they have along here, but, I mean, this does give you a little bit of an idea of what they're doing. You know, these are the basic enhancements that we would see and then you got planters on the corners, you know, which, you know, are nice enhancements. And then, you know, the nice tree grates. Some of this stuff, you know, is not-- there's nothing we can do about, you know, some of, you know, the features of these buildings because they are-- they were the back of buildings and-- but this would, you know, increase the opportunity that people have if they wanted to open up a business on the new streets. It'd be a much more likely, you know, prospect to being able to do that because it now looks, you know, looks appealing, looks nice. There's not the bad smells from the trash and the grease traps. >> So, I think it was brought up but I didn't know if we got-- would it be possible as part of doing this plan to just look at additional lighting on Cedar? I mean, it seems like it looks good, like the street looks good, but it is-- what's the feasibility of that? >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, we-- the design phase would be the next, you know, phase and I think they could definitely look at the lighting, what the current lighting is and, you know, recommendations to improve the lighting. And if they did that, they would also replace the aggregate, you know, poles with the newer poles or, you know, if we had, you know, a dark sky option that was a little bit nicer. I think this is where we were. So, the recommendations are to do the enhanced option, the middle of the road option and then depending on available funding, we could add in some of the other features, you know, that were shown there and that's basically the end of my presentation. Huh? [ Inaudible Remark ] >> One more slide. There we go. >> OK. I thought I mentioned them but, yes, Cedar Street remain as is maybe we just got as far as Cedar Street. Bacan Street, you know, looking at the basic enhanced and luxury, it's sort of like a car, you know, your basic car and then, you know, you upgrade as you go up and that those, you know, we have a breakdown of the cost estimates. I didn't include that in the backup material but we do have a breakdown of the cost if anybody wanted to see that. >> What's the funding source? >> The-- This was initially bond funded quite a few years ago. So, that would be the source of a portion of the funding. Costs have gone up since that bond was, you know, since that bond was done. So, there, you know, additional funding source we would have to locate. >> Is this part of the squares fund taxing district? >> It is. >> Special taxing district? >> Yes. >> And there's no money coming from that? >> For the design, some of the design funding did come from that fund. For this conceptual phase, the money from that fund was used for the conceptual phase. >> So, I have a question about why you all originally thought about making it one way going counterclockwise. >> We were going to do one way with a bike lane, you know, all the way around counterclockwise. But, the idea being there is, you know, we thought that it would be a safer option and it would be a good opportunity for people to go around the block if they're, you know, they could, you know, come around the block again a little bit more easier. And there would be maybe greater visibility of the crosswalks. And so, maybe a slightly more, you know, safe because you got a lot more visibility. There's a lot more, you know, open space where people have greater opportunity for visibility. So, that's-- but we were fought-- I shouldn't say fought. A number of people were vehemently against it and a lot of people were also-- they wanted two lanes so that if a truck is there, you know, doing deliveries and blocking the lane, they wanted an opportunity to be able to go around the vehicle. So, once we went back to two lanes, it didn't make sense to keep it in one direction and, you know, because a number of other people were thinking that that would hurt their business, that if somebody had to go around the block a couple of times to park near their business, that they might go somewhere else instead. >> I will say if the-- and you guys know I want bike lanes everywhere. But I think if these lanes are snug and as they look like, this car should-- traffic should move slow and it should be a safe place for bikes to interact with the traffic. So, I actually think-- >> That was my question. What was the speed on these? >> They're set at 30. So, we would need an ordinance to be able to modify the speed and I don't know that we're even entertaining that idea at the time. >> Has there been any discussion of having-- I've read recently a little bit about the idea of having a common downtown speed limit as it helps everyone, you know, because if people are-- if the speed limit is changing all around downtown, it makes it a little harder for everyone to get used to and figured out. But that-- a common speed limit can really be helpful in the downtown area and that could, you know, I don't know how that would extend to our arterials that are on the edges or not. But our-- at least starting with our other streets as a common speed limit then considered or is it more common than I realize? >> So, a couple of things, speed-- it's the other way around. Typically, what people think is if we set the speed limit, everyone is going to start driving that limit. >> Right. >> It's not that way. It's more of what people are driving currently and feel comfortable based on the environment surrounding it. So, that's the way it functions and works. So, in order to calm them down, it's more of not just putting a sign up there but adding features that actually narrows the street down. >> Right. >> That way they feel more intimidated by the cars that are parked, more intimidated by the structures that are encroaching in the driveway and automatically slow them. So, if those elements are added which is what we're doing, bulb outs and mid-block neck downs, that helps and the parking does help. The lanes are narrow. I think they're 11 feet. >> Yes. >> Yeah, they're not wider 12 feet or 14 feet. >> And I guess I was thinking more broadly than the new street-- streets but yeah. I mean, I totally agree that actually the design will do more to slow down cars but I could see it as like an accompanying thing, right? That a common speed limit would help people at least get that message at least until we can get control back of those roads that are, you know, designed as highways. >> We are getting there. >> Yeah, high locusts. >> And the bulb outs serve another feature and that is to help with fire. You know, if they needed to-- if there were fire, you know, they can set up their truck there and they can get their, you know, struts out, you know, so. >> Would you mark these streets as sharrows? >> As what? >> As sharrows? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay, I was thinking-- >> I think most of the-- I mean, we pulled a number of bike riders, you know, and we have a new bike and pedestrian coordinator and it seems like the majority of them felt that the bike lanes, you know, in this type of situation didn't provide them as much of an advantage, you know, but doing the shared lanes. They were interested in the shared lanes aspect of it, you know, in this case. >> I think it's consistent with what Daniel was saying. You're comfortable more to share the road given the way the features and elements are laid down on the street, so. >> Yeah. That's the way I behave on these streets. >> So I have a question about then on Piccon, I believe it is, coming from, okay, Locust. There-- the steps, you're talking about the steps in the sidewalk and how would we mitigate that rise and it's also taken into consideration that that's right up against a building. So how is that-- would that become-- that sidewalk become an at-grade sidewalk or how would we work that? Because there's a real big rise there on Piccon. >> Yes. Parkway. >> Have you gone past it? >> Right up above Dark Edge. [ Pause ] >> So, yes, we have the steps along here. Essentially, the way that we would do it is the sidewalk area on this side would be much wider. And so we would have a, you know, a differential elevation there. We would allow some ramps to go up to the doors that are back there and then beyond that would be the actual sidewalk. >> Okay. Good. >> But that is, yeah, definitely a concern, you know, through this whole. >> Okay. That will maintain ADA compliance and everything. >> Okay. [ Pause ] >> I have a small trivia question. What kind of trees are you guys talking about for those spaces? >> I am not a landscape architect. I must admit, I would defer to the landscape architects or our urban forester. You know, they'll have recommendations on the type of trees that, you know, that would be appropriate for, you know, the amount of exposure that they have. But, yeah, I stayed at Holiday Inn Express once but, yeah, I'm not a landscape architect. [ Laughter ] >> So I read the comments about, you know, the written comments from, probably from the web survey. And there were a lot of comments about perceived safety. I'm interested in whether, you know, there's always a discrepancy between perception and reality. And I am interested in what the reality of the, you know, crime is on the square. Because there were a lot of comments from people saying they don't want to park in the remote lots because of their perception of safety. I'm curious because, it's not my perception but, you know, that's just me. I never feel unsafe. And, but the frequency with which people commented upon a feeling of, or they think they're going to feel unsafe, getting that far from the square. And I'm just wondering whether we have crime stats. I don't expect you to pull that out right now. But if we, in order to encourage people to park at the remote lots, then we have to go ahead and play to that perception of public, of public safety. Whether, whether it's a reality or not, we have to make people feel safer. So that's where I think that we really do need to look at super enhanced lighting. And, you know, really make people feel like they're going to be safe. You know, are there any, and again, I'm interested in the stats on that. And whether we could even start advertising, you know, look, you're safe down on the square. Or whether, you know, if there's a chaperone service that at closing time, because I did notice, you know, women said, you know, I bartend. I'm walking to my car with tips. I don't want to park remotely. >> Right. >> And whether there's any way that we can mitigate the potential, you know, the fear that may be unjustified or, you know, even if it's not justified, we still have to deal with that perception. I don't know what you want to do with that, but. >> Police department definitely has statistics that we can, you know, take a look at. And see how much, you know, crime is actually happening, you know, in this region. So, but, yeah, I think, you know, the more light, yes. I think people, you know, feel, you know, when it's illuminated, they don't feel like somebody's coming out of the shadows or is lurking in the shadows. >> Right. >> So, yeah, so more illumination is definitely better. >> Yeah, because it's definitely to the advantage of the square to encourage people to park in the remote parking lots. And it is an advantage to businesses as well if people will do it and feel comfortable doing it. So, I'm going to agree. That was one of the things, because I read through the comments also that I noticed, and particularly as a woman, you know, you feel more vulnerable than maybe Amanda's. And, you know, I honestly don't, I don't, I'm not out at 2 in the morning in Denton, but, you know, maybe 1030, and I don't ever feel unsafe, but at the same time, I'm with you. Like, I will park remotely, but there are spaces in Denton where there's, the lighting is poor. So, I realize that this is about the Meuse streets, and this is not about remote parking right now, but I do feel like, you know, it would be helpful if there was additional lighting that go towards the remote parking. >> We do currently have a TIF project underway where we're doing sidewalks and we're doing lighting. Oak and Hickory, we're doing lighting from the square to Carroll. And then we're doing lighting on Elm, north to Parkway from the square, and then on Locust, we're going all the way to McKinney and adding lights throughout that whole corridor. So, there's some more lighting coming to portions of the square. >> Great. >> Anyone else have any questions? >> Well, thank you for your consideration. I appreciate it. >> Do we need to make a recommendation? >> Is this okay? >> Just following the rules, Jim. >> I'm right here. Give the staff direction. >> Direction or recommendation? >> Direction, yes. >> Direction, it's more of, are you on board with what direction we're going in? And are comfortable or do you want, you know, just to have your opinion as a committee, would you rather see one-way streets or bike lanes or all that other stuff that we've kind of weeded out and we've selected this moving forward? >> How do we weigh in on the options? Obviously, there's different price points there. Is that something we're commenting on or is it-- right, because it would change based on those options on how much we're spending on it, correct? >> Correct. >> So currently, our recommendation is enhanced. It's not the basic one. And if you want, you can recommend the luxury option but it just changes the parking spaces. It doesn't change that much and put some-- >> Well, parking doesn't change between the options. >> Parking space is, in a sense, the enhancement. Just the stained concrete. >> The stained, okay. >> And a tree, additional tree. >> It was additional trees, yes. >> How much would that string lighting add to the project if we went with the enhanced? >> I would need to look at-- I didn't bring the cost estimate with me. I need to look at that but I can't imagine string lighting is actually that expensive. >> Some of these alleys have real economic potential and so I do think like-- and I don't know if this goes in stages but like the string lighting could be ways to really create, you know, placemake to create a space in those alleys and some of them are succeeding with dumpsters right in front of it which is actually pretty amazing. And so anyway, I'm not saying what we need to do that now but it just-- it seems like something even worth considering. I know string lighting sounds funny but I think they could be real draws for people and the string lighting would invite it and be like come off the square into this area too. >> Yeah, I'm seeing maybe some sidewalk tables and service out there and that this actually becomes a gathering and destination spot. Is there room for the-- for patios? >> There would be room in some of the-- some of the areas, yes. >> OK. OK. >> As a matter of fact, when we did our survey monkey, that was one of the options that we presented was having patio, you know, type seating outside the restaurants. >> Yeah. And depending on what's allowed by code in terms of murals and other paint jobs, the way I believe Warren Lutt did the electrical boxes behind cart rights and those were pretty neat. >> Yes, those were hand painted. >> Yeah. He did a good job on those. >> We're hoping that the, you know, the wraps, the vinyl wraps that go around the transformers will also, you know, look a lot nicer than the standard green color that they are now. >> Well, I don't know how it fits in the overall budget but, I mean, I'm not against like the more expensive and the more expensive options for really making these, you know, but if we're going to do it, to go all the way and really make them special spaces. So, I'm not against that recommendation. >> Yeah. Not against that recommendation. >> I know. It's a-- it's a good head-- it's a good hedge when someone gets mad at me about taxes or something like that. >> Well, I'm all for the additional tree because ultimately, you know, it's going to create shade and then cut down on maybe some air conditioning cost maybe. >> And we did have a number of people, you know, that really wanted to see the additional shade structures. So, that was, you know, a big appeal to a number of people. >> And I mean, in the end, the council have to determine whether-- what they can afford. So, recommending it just as saying that we're-- >> We like it. >> Yeah, we like it. >> And if it's doable, then-- so, I'm in favor of the luxury layout option. >> I like the luxury too. >> Yeah, I think if funds are available, that's what you could say, if funds are available, some elements we can look into incorporating some elements of the luxury option. >> It sounds like the tree is what's-- oh, sorry. I don't speak that often. It sounds like the tree is more the favor for the luxury. >> It's a good one. >> As opposed to the paving coloring, is that correct? Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's not that you want the luxury, it's that the trees were more important. >> Yeah, but I mean, I do-- I think the-- >> The contrast. >> Yeah, I'm not like-- again, it's not something I'm like really that worried about, but I think it can create a nice aesthetic though. The-- what is it, how do you say it, like the coloring of the pavement? >> Yeah, the stain. >> Stain, that's right. I think that can help to also like give character to the area. So I'm in favor of that too, but, you know, again, it's council. If we had to prioritize, we could do the trees first. >> Yeah, and the trees also help with that visual reminder to slow down. It helps with traffic calming. And yeah, the stamped and stained. >> Yeah, all of those elements there too. >> Yeah. >> The lighting, even the stained sides will cause people to take a look at it and slow down. [ Inaudible Remarks ] >> That's our recommendation. >> Funds pending, we prefer the luxury option. >> Always. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, thank you. >> All righty, that brings us to item 1C, TSC 19-016, which is staff reports. >> Okay, a couple of things. I want to start with the street construction report, point out a couple of important things. Mayhill Road, it was planned to be switched to the northbound lanes, the brand new ones that are constructed. And it was planned to happen this morning, but given the temperatures that plan was pulled out, it's going to happen tomorrow. So all the traffic is now switching to the new lanes. They'll start constructing the older, and they'll demolish or take out the old lanes and put in newer pavement in that area and then construct the bridges and whatnot needed over the creek. So traffic switch is happening on Mayhill. We're moving forward as scheduled, so things are going. The other thing I want to point out is another traffic switch that is happening this month is on 35E in front of Buckies or on Brinker. So there is a lane switch happening. The entire traffic, the freeway traffic, both northbound and southbound lanes are switching to the new bridges, both on Brinker as well as Loop 288. They're working on it. They're wrapping up the Loop 288 approaches. I think the Brinker approaches are already wrapped up. But once that lines up, the entire freeway traffic moves and then they are going to start working on under the bridges, both Loop 288 as well as Brinker will be their priority to actually make the connection for Brinker and then upgrade the drainage and everything under the loop so they have to raise the actual Loop 288 street level because it's so low that water just floods there. It doesn't go anywhere. So to make it drain, you can notice that the current height of the bridge is pretty high. The new bridge is higher, much higher than the existing bridge. So that's what will be happening. I think they'll be working under the bridges through the summer and their next deadline most likely is sometime in summer to open up the Brinker connection and make it a full interchange. So that's what's happening. Originally, March 9th was the switch for I-35E, but they're kind of behind with the temperatures and weather delays, but it's going to happen this month. That's what I, at least for now, you know, two main switches on the construction projects. And then we can talk about the matrix. Item number three, we just heard the presentation, so I might want to take that off. And then item number five is happening this week. So we are putting in the stripe at, well, changing it at Eagle. So that way you can easily turn it in and out and it makes it much more better and safer for cars not to back out when the bus is turning especially. So those two are happening. We are working on gathering information for the item number two, which is the, you know, collision reports for pedestrians. And we started looking at the data. There's a lot of data and there are certain intersections that we have started identifying and talking about light is that is the easiest and fastest way to address some of these concerns. So we're pulling out intersections that may have some collision data that is dependent on, you know, visibility at night. So if these, we've identified them and now we're looking for or going to find funds to, if light exists, increase the amount of wattage so that it's brighter and if it doesn't, see how we can install lighting at some of these intersections. There, I think the important one is the two intersections on Carroll, Hickory Oak. There is light but it doesn't light up the whole thing. It doesn't light up the corners where the pedestrians are or the sidewalks really well. So we want to increase the intensity. Currently, the wattage is, I think it is 250 watts. We're going to raise it to 400. That will increase the amount of lights. There are a few intersections on US 380 that we want to increase the light on. Carroll and 380 is one location. There's Alice, there's Malone, so we're going to take it one step at a time. So that's what we're working towards on this particular item. But we'll bring a report and discuss all these. Just wanted to give you a quick update of where we're going. Any other questions on the matrix or we can add? >> Yeah, I'd like to ask a question if I could, please. On the I-35 transition or exchange, switch, do you anticipate any positive traffic flow changes, no change or negative changes for that? >> Positive for some people, negative for some others. So on the 35E, I think it will be a much positive change, especially for the people that are using the freeway. The section between the loop and Mayhill has been an old pavement for years, even after the completion of the widening project. So once they make the switch, this will be brand new pavement for starters. So there are no potholes, no issues. And the other thing is the lanes won't merge or be dropped or have some ramps that are, I wouldn't say substandard, but ramps that are really short. All of those issues, the safety concerns will be eliminated for the freeway riders. As far as brinker connection opening, that will reduce some traffic off of the loop. So some of the traffic that's arriving at 35 in the loop will probably, the southbound folks will use brinker to get to the interchange and go south on 35E, so. >> Right, I guess my question was more the highway itself. I mean, obviously the brinker in Mayhill is not going to be done for a while, so. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> But highway is-- >> The traffic flow. >> Traffic flow, the ingress and egress ramps will be much different. Right now they're construction, they're still in construction. So the size of the ramp, the length of the ramp, they're short and it's because of the construction constraints. So once the switch happens, all these will go away. The new connections are consistent with the final plan. So once the switch happens and the northbound lanes open, the exit and entrance ramp will be standard tech stock ramps that are much longer at the appropriate location. So they'll be a positive-- >> In the short term, it's going to be a positive change right now. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> I have just two quick comments. I'm trying to make sure the matrix just has my concerns on it, which we're-- we're almost there. >> Yes, take it over. >> I'm getting really close. Okay, two questions. We-- I think we've discussed this before, but maybe I admit I-- I'm not sure if we ever talked about why, the reason why. I was curious about why there's-- or what the possibilities are for a crosswalk on the north side of Hickory at Bell. So right now it's just on the south side where the-- this is where DCTA is, right? You get off the train, you walk straight across that sidewalk, but the other side doesn't have a crosswalk across. >> Correct. >> So that intersection is currently under design for replacement of a new signal. So we're going out to bed in the-- in the next couple of weeks on the signal contract. So there will be 11 signals and out of the 11, one of the signals is Hickory at Bell. >> Okay. >> It has old equipment we need to redesign and once that redesign happens, there will be a crosswalk as part of that. >> Perfect. >> And then there has to be a-- >> And that's the reason it probably went away because you've got the same answer of it. >> Okay. Okay. I don't know if we ever put it on-- >> I can put it in-- >> We may never put it on the matrix actually, but-- okay. Then my other one, this is relevant to the one on checking on cars. So I walked from-- we now have a new coffee shop, right? The people will go maybe walk between. So I walked from the Golden Boy coffee shop. You haven't been there down Elm. And it's pretty much the same issue as one block over that I already have on here at Hercules Mulfur and Radiator. This is actually a good case. The cars are literally only parked on the sidewalk. They don't even go off of it. They're like right on the sidewalk. So they're using the sidewalk as a place, as an alley to park cars. So this is-- but this is similar. So I think we need more enforcement in the areas kind of-- >> So Elm at where? >> And so it's on north-- it's just north of McKinney on Elm. >> The TIF project is making improvements to that. >> To that, those sidewalks. >> So that they can't park there. >> Yeah. Okay. And so I had previously reported one-- these are just for me walking. I noticed them. But, you know, they probably haven't been told in a while not to park across them. But this one I found interesting because they weren't like parked-- they were parked like horizontally with the sidewalk or using it as parking spaces. So-- which just again, it makes it unclear for pedestrians where to go. And it's particularly harder for anyone with strollers, wheelchairs, or any kind of disabilities. They're having to navigate through their parking lot to get to it. So that was the only other thing. And so-- and I used the Engaged in App, by the way, to report that one. I don't know how that process is working. I will say if this feedback is helpful to anyone, it's submitted, but it kept buffering when I did it. And so it had to actually submitted. And so then when I went to-- I tried to do it three times. I closed the app. And then when I went to my email, I submitted it three times. So it was going in. It was just showing me a continued buffer. And I don't know if that's my technology or my VPN or something messing with it. I have no clue. >> OK. You wanted to make sure that we got it. >> Well, I didn't think it was going through because it never quit. It just would keep buffering. Yeah. So I know now to check my email before I submit a second time. >> So we'll add this on the matrix and then come back with a response. There are a couple of responses, but I'll put it in. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> I want to ask the group if you all have any interest in this. You know, when UNT comes to the parking about UNT police taking over the parking. >> Your mic, please. >> When UNT comes to-- and we've been very accommodating to let the UNT police department take over the parking on Hickory, on Wilshire, and some other places. And they're not enforcing the parking. I drive a bus down Hickory every day and what they're not doing is they're not towing the cars that are parked illegally on the end. So when I'm making a turn with a 35-foot bus, you know, and most of our accidents over there are hitting a fixed object on coming up Eagle, on Crescent, at different places. So my point is this, next time that UNT comes with a request that we invite chief rentals to come and talk to us about what, you know, what his plans are. >> It is good timing, they're asking personally. >> Everybody? >> Sure. >> Yes, that would be great. >> All right. >> Yeah, we can definitely have someone from UNT come in. It could be the transportation department along with the PD, so everyone. Because I think some of them is through the transportation department. I don't know how that works enforcement-wise. >> Lots of things we can discuss with them. Bike lanes, scooters, we got all kinds of stuff. >> Oh, wow. >> Well, and then you got the thing going on if you're with the bicycle lanes and, you know, all that's, maybe some of that will be resolved by that time. >> Yeah. >> You know, if they take out all those businesses on, you know, over on the other side on Eagle, there's a lot of, there's four streets to be parking on, you know. >> Yeah, I think we, I can talk to UNT and put something on the agenda. But we need to know exactly what we want to put on the agenda because we cannot talk outside of the, that particular. So if we want to add bike lanes, if we want to add parking. >> Well, that's why I said, wait until they come with another proposal. I think they've already emailed me about something, so. >> Okay. >> I have a question for you. >> Yes. >> Okay. So on Locust, before you get to Hercules, there's a new development. And they have put in sidewalks on the outside of that development that would be between the development and Locust. And then the development right before it, on the south side of that, there is sidewalks also. But then it goes to the drainage ditch. Like the sidewalk goes all the way to the drainage ditch and ends. And there's nowhere for you to go. Now, on one side of that is where they put the new bike walk lanes. They put a new bridge in. Awesome, awesome, awesome, I love it. But I'm kind of wondering, like if you were to head down that road and you don't know that's in there, you just end at the sidewalk and then you would have to either go way back down to that bridge or you get on the Textot Road, Locust, and walk across to Ephra's Park. So I'm curious, like, was there any plan for this or was this just one of those things like it was, you had to put it in and they did and then they were done? Does that make sense? I'm not sure I get where the location is. So if you go to Ephra's Park and then there's some town homes, I guess. And then there's the drainage area and then the McKamey. So there's sidewalks. Yeah, go north. Yeah, so there's sidewalks from that McKamey area right there, right, yeah, see that little sidewalk and then it ends and then I'm curious, is there any plan to do anything with that? Because you can get, because otherwise how do you get across? You can go all, if you go west, you can get to the bridge and go across, but otherwise you'd have to get, the quickest thing would just be get on Locust and walk to the park. So I'm curious if there's any plans to do anything with that or if that's, because I know like these town homes, maybe that property is owned such a way that you couldn't put anything there. I don't know. Yeah, let us look into it and then come back with a... Because there's, see where that truck is? There's a crosswalk right there, which is awesome, but there's sort of like this area where if you were walking from those homes, the quickest way would be to get that, but you can go in, you can go west and there's a bridge down in there and there's that one, but you don't, I mean... So you're talking about the west side gap? Yeah. Let us look into this and see what our options are. Okay. I mean, can you see that little, they have the bridge to the left right there where they have all the new bike. Yeah, there's that one and then there's the other one there, which is awesome, but I suspect a lot of people may not, if they're walking down that way, they're not gonna know, may not know that's over there. No. Let us look at it. Okay. Okay. Anybody else want to add something to the matrix? Yeah, let me get my thing up here. I had a couple of things from a couple of citizens and we've probably talked about Alice and university before. This particular citizen bicycles over to Kroger in the shopping area and also walks over there. And last time she was walking over there, she was heading back south to Alice. She was having a lot of trouble crossing the street. Three cars almost hit her as she was crossing the street as they're making a left turn to go west on 380. And having driven out of that parking lot and stuff, is there anything we can do to help with signaling or anything on Alice and to give maybe a little bit more time for people to cross Alice to go over to that area for shopping? So you're saying that there was no pedestrian phase? There is, I believe there is a pedestrian phase there. Yeah, but she was having problems because cars just weren't seeing her. Yeah. I agree. I think that needs to be a more important pedestrian crosswalk. And there is a lot of turning at that intersection because it goes into Denton Center. It goes into Denton Center parking lot. And it's not an intersection that if you're coming-- that people frequently just go straight ahead on, no matter where they go. They're turning. There's a lot of turning that goes on at that intersection. And I think that it is currently poorly lit. And so that even if there is a pedestrian signal there, it's difficult to get across in time if you are indeed not sprinting. And it also doesn't call attention to itself as an important place for people to safely cross. As a pedestrian. Yeah. As a pedestrian. Yeah. And really on a bike. Yeah. Well, all of university is really bad for pedestrians and bikes. But I wonder if a good starting point would be to pick the most logical intersection to really make more friendly and more inviting for a crossing point for people coming from T.W.U. across and people going to Kroger. I think Carroll may be it. Like Carroll where Kroger is maybe the best one. But it might be like identifying let's pick one intersection and make it really more walkable and do all the little things we can. And then hopefully people will start using that one to cross if they're even in the vicinity. But what's tricky about that space is because all the businesses between Alice and Carroll because it's mostly like there's like an auto body place there and there's restaurants there. And so to me it's just like it's all parking lot. You know so people there's a lot of cars. So I don't need I don't know that I would feel I mean you have to be really like you have to have your head on a swivel and making sure that you know people are seeing you and you're visible. It's almost even like thinking about I'm not saying thinking planners for this area because I don't think it makes sense but some kind of things that like give you an enclosed space like as you're waiting for the intersection does that kind of make sense like when you're leading up to it. Maybe that's trees. Maybe that's I don't know what the answer is but I think there's got to be something that could help pedestrians because you feel vulnerable like I mean if you've ever stood on university you feel very vulnerable cars are going by high speed you just you don't want to stand there. So psychologically people probably just don't even try it. And I've tried because I'm on bike and I tried to convince my wife to like you know ride our bikes to the movie tavern and she just is like no I'm not crossing university she's just refused. So if we could pick one intersection to make clear I think that would just be a possibility but I don't know maybe that we just need to fix it all I don't know. That seems unrealistic to happen that's why I'm thinking if we can pick one and fight for that maybe we could but yeah totally I mean it needs some kind of you need to delineate where the parking lots start where the sidewalks are and have like clear boundaries between those and I think that's what would help pedestrians. Yeah because cars are not looking for for pedestrians or bicyclists right yeah. I mean maybe I don't know I don't know what the what the answers would be there. We can look into some options yeah. The second one is communication from another citizen. I'm just going to read what she wrote I've been meaning to bring this up for a while. The corner of Congress in Oakland is extremely dangerous. There's a really bad blind spot that a lot of people speed or unaware of right by Emily Fowler Library. If you know the area Quaker Town Park is across the way. Lots of kids dogs pedestrians bikes and cars. From the other direction North one is TWU students that are parking and it blocks the view also. I've lived by this spot for six years. I and many people I know have been there have been hit almost hit many times. There needs to be a stop sign before someone is hurt or killed. I'm really surprised has anything been done really already such a busy public city traffic area and I'm trying to remember if there is a stop sign it I think there is an Oakland isn't there Congress Congress has a stop Congress yeah I don't know that stop sign on Oakland would necessarily be right way to go but and we don't even have a sidewalk in front of Emily Fowler on Oakland right it starts on the other side yeah but on Oakland you don't even have a sidewalk so you literally as a pedestrian just have to walk right into the parking lot. So we do have long-term plans for Parkway and Oakland to be road diet because it doesn't need four lanes right once we have the road diet there'll be a center line for cars to just cross one area and have a refuge area before they cross into the through traffic so long-term there's a plan we just want to evaluate I'm aware of that and we're working on some collecting some data understanding how it works. When you say long-term how long is long-term? We just have to go through the process. Now I think part of that project is removing signals at Parkway both Elm and Locust and that's where the long-term comes in it because we have to deal with tax time yeah at this point if once we prove and go through the process that those intersections don't need to be signalized they can be stopped signs on Parkway then it's a matter of restriping the whole thing. I don't know if any traffic calming would help that or not it's just something okay the just one question were bike lanes ever considered for I'm always curious what where is it okay I was always I've always thought wondered where would the bike lanes from TWU to the Square B Oakland or do you try to make Bell work seems like Oakland's always been more logical. Oakland's always logical. All right nothing nobody else anything for the matrix sounds kind of light to me but we can adjourn at 650 thank you.