WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Hello and welcome to this special call advisory opinion panel meeting of the Board of Ethics. 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:15.000 The time is 5.30 and all three panel members are here so our first order of business will be to select a presiding officer for the meeting. 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:30.000 So I'll leave that up to you. You want to be the presiding officer? 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:49.000 The vice chair normally serves in the place of the chair. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:01:02.000 So today is Thursday, June 22nd, 2023. It's 5.31 and this is a special call advisory opinion panel. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:27.000 And we are now going to have one item to consider. It is BOE 23-030, request for advisory opinion for number 23-002, received June 7th, 2023 from Council Member Byrd concerning potential pending matters, conflict of interest or improper use of influence, applicability, and recusal recommendations. 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:40.000 So I know you guys have read the material in the backup. So I guess we can just begin with discussion. Does Council Member Byrd, I guess she doesn't need to be here. 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:45.000 No, I think they will say she can be here, but she's not required. 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Okay. So I will open the floor for discussion from one of you. 00:01:53.000 --> 00:02:02.000 Well, I do have just a couple of things that are more of a procedural nature rather than getting into the actual subject matter here. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:14.000 I have been on some preliminary panels many, many years ago. I'm a little bit confused about the difference here between an advisory opinion and a preliminary hearing. 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:26.000 Ordinarily, an advisory opinion would be that person here asking, so this is not a preliminary hearing, this is an advisory opinion only. 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.000 That's correct. 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:31.000 Which means we're not supposed to investigate anything, we just look at the material? 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.000 Right, you're basically just determining if it... 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:43.000 So that would mean we are limited to what we have been presented, either in written form from your office, which would be, I guess, three pages. 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:51.000 These text messages and your agenda sheet, and that would be the extent of our information at this point. Is that correct? 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.000 That's all the information that I have. 00:02:53.000 --> 00:03:02.000 Okay. So any "investigation" would not be the purview in any way of this person, is that correct? 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:13.000 Right. There's no alleged violation of the law. So it's just to determine, basically to give advice to her as if she should continue doing this action, basically. 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:21.000 Okay. So Tom or David, do you have any comments based on that? 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:38.000 Well, Tom, go ahead for a second here, so we can have some other things. Where I started was looking at a conflict of interest is when a person can benefit from actions or decisions in their official capacity. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:59.000 Correct. So I looked at the question as to monies flowing from the city at her recommendation, Councilman Byrd, to the Rotary Club. 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:13.000 What was missing for me was how many flags. If this was five or ten, I don't see a conflict issue. 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:24.000 I still question whether $50 is a reasonable fee, but that's not why we're convening. We're just talking about is this a conflict of interest. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:36.000 If it were 500 flags at $50 flowing to the club that she's a member of, I think that would hold the potential of being a conflict. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:42.000 So I don't see anything where it says the quantity of the flags. Is that correct, Madison? 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:55.000 From my understanding, I do not know how many flags are being requested at this point. I think it's for city facilities, which there's probably 10 to 15, but I don't know the exact number. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.000 But multiple flags at each site, probably. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:15.000 Yes, I kind of second that issue. Okay, so we're left with basically just a brief email exchange then. So to understand, there were no phone calls. 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:21.000 There was no verbal discussion between anybody on any of these boards or yourself. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:29.000 I had a discussion with the city manager's office who was like, "Would this be a conflict?" And I said, "The best way to determine that is if we go to the board." 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.000 I'm sorry, say that again? 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:41.000 I had a conversation with the city manager's office after Councilmember Byrd discussed it with them, and I said, "The best way to determine if there's a conflict is to have an advisory opinion panel." 00:05:41.000 --> 00:06:06.000 Okay. Well then, this is not a question, and this is just kind of a statement of where I'm at at this point then. Reading Ms. Byrd's original email on Friday, June 2nd, Councilmember Byrd asks only about the situation in this city in terms of flag posting. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:15.000 And she only comments that she would like to experience the celebration of liberty and that our flags are impressive. 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:24.000 And the last sentence here suggests to me that she was trying to get this into the arena of a pitch to the Council, a two-minute pitch. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:31.000 I don't see where she has raised any of these other issues that have come out of the city manager's office. 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:38.000 The Rotary, the Ethics Board, the CPC, contingency funds, I don't know where all that came from. 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:49.000 So I just, I'm left with, and then her final comment here again, at the end of the day, she just suggested I have to have some guidance. 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:59.000 And again, she's back to the issue of flags only. She's not suggesting where they come from, who pays for them, where they go. 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:07.000 And so I don't know where I'd have any option here other than to recommend this just be dismissed. 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:14.000 Because it's not a conflict of interest. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:19.000 It's a request for advice. It's not a violation at all. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:36.000 So it kind of seems like it, between Council Member Byrd's first email, and then five and a half days later the assistant city manager comes back and says we could use contingency funds. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:43.000 I looked at the Rotary website, and so I'm curious how it got to be that specific. 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:52.000 Because I thought maybe Council Member Byrd just wanted to see if the Council wanted to do it. 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.000 So I'm wondering where that specificity came from. 00:07:55.000 --> 00:08:02.000 I don't know. They may have had a discussion that was not part of the email exchange. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:10.000 So I think if it's really just, you know, should we have flags or not, I think there's absolutely no problem with that. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.000 Well, I don't think that's the question. 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:20.000 Well, then if that needs to be in the form of a motion, then. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:34.000 Before you make your motion, I think that one of the duties that you have under the ethics ordinance is to look at the conflicts of interest section and see if she has any financial interest in the Rotary Club. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.000 Okay. And the Rotary Club, it doesn't give you a whole lot of detail, but it is a nonprofit organization. 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.000 And she's not a board member. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:52.000 And she's not a board member. She is a member. She doesn't, if you look at her conflicts of interest, she doesn't own five percent of the entity. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:04.000 She doesn't receive six hundred dollars. They haven't been given that information, but Rotary Club members generally don't receive money from the Rotary Club for their membership. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.000 And she doesn't serve on the board. 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:25.000 So that could be your finding that there's no conflict of interest under Section 2-273 of your ethics ordinance. And then the other thing to look at is whether there's any improper influence because she's a member of the Rotary Club, because she serves on council. 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:30.000 Is that any kind of improper influence? 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:47.000 So you look at, is she going to secure any special privileges, granting special consideration or advantage to a citizen's individual business organization or group, assert the prestige of her office? 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:59.000 There's no information that she's saying she's going to influence any decisions, whether it's the city or the Rotary Club, and then state that doesn't apply to that last one. 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:21.000 I noticed that we have council member Byrd here. My question was, where did it come from? Can we have flags to, yes, we should use the Rotary Club, and was there, I mean, is the city not an option to put the flags up? I don't know. Can the city buy flags? 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:35.000 Well, you're not given that information. You're only given that there's a community partnership committee where these requests go to, and they would make the recommendation up to council. 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.000 And do we have any information if council member Byrd serves on that committee? 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.000 She does, at this point in time. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:11:00.000 So one of your recommendations could be that because she serves on that committee, because she's a member of Rotary, she has to, it's not required in your ordinance, but you could recommend that she recoups herself just to avoid any kind of improper influence. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:09.000 I see we have council member Byrd here. Would it be okay to ask her to shed some light on this? 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:17.000 I don't know if that's allowed from the Rules of Procedure, but I just don't know. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:22.000 Let's just take a minute and look at the Rules of Procedure. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:39.000 The Rules of Procedure, though, is really about a complaint, more than, is there a section on that? 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:51.000 While you're looking that up, that's actually why I asked my original question about whether or not we are limited to what we have been presented, because it was an update with one of the obvious questions to me. 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:57.000 It mentions another name here, well, individual from... 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.000 Is it the assistant city manager? 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.000 From the rovers, no, from the rovers. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:20.000 Now, it would be an obvious question, which I'm told that we may not be able to ask, is did council member Byrd discuss, well, I'll go to council and see if we can get this, which, again, would be kind of a touchy area in terms of the influence. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.000 Or did she just, on her own, say, hey, I want some flags, and didn't. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:31.000 So that's an issue, that's why I started out asking how much investigation, or how many questions are allowed over here. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:41.000 If I'm only limited to what it says here, and there was no other verbal discussion, that's kind of where I'm coming from. 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:50.000 I don't know the answer to that, I think, I mean, council member Byrd's here, it does say in the rules of procedure that no testimony or public comments will be accepted. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:57.000 I don't know if that is acceptable from Texas Open Meetings Act, it does say that though. 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:02.000 So then we can't hold the council member? 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:07.000 That would be my interpretation, but I don't know for sure. 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:16.000 Can we do a motion to suspend the rules, just to allow a comment, to answer a question? 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:23.000 Well, Robert Schultz does allow you to make that motion to suspend the rules if you want to. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.000 Do I hear a motion? 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.000 So moved. 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.000 Seconded. 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:34.000 Okay, so we can suspend this, and the motion is to allow us to ask a question? 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:40.000 Yeah, to ask, again, I'm only familiar with preliminary hearings. 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:45.000 This advisory opinion is kind of new to her, so I'm really kind of confused here about what we can and can't ask. 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:52.000 Okay, so we have just moved that we can ask councilwoman Byrd a question. 00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:02.000 So the question is, what was your intent, and you may have the floor now. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:10.000 Thank you all for giving me this opportunity to speak. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:23.000 This request actually came from a citizen, and the citizen is a member of the Rotary Club. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:33.000 And he and I discussed, does this want something for me to do, or do you want to do it? 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:45.000 But since he was coming to me for guidance and assistance on getting this done, I brought it in from him as a citizen, 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:54.000 not necessarily from Rotary, although it is for the benefit of Rotary. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:59.000 So what I'm noting here is this is not just for me. 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:06.000 We also have two other members on our council that are members of social groups like this. 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Melter is Rotary, and Hollander is co-op us. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:19.000 So this will be something that would be a precedent for, I guess, anyone in these kinds of groups. 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.000 So here's the thing. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.000 This group puts the flags up all over, and they note it. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:32.000 He noted, well, the county has a lot of flags all over through the Rotary. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.000 Why not the city? 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.000 Can you work with us to see if the city may be interested in putting flags? 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.000 The citizens may be interested in putting them out on city property. 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.000 And of course, me, I guess, well, why not? 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.000 Let's just ask to see how this would work. 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:54.000 So if it needs to be me stepping back and out of the way, 00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:01.000 the citizen would come anyway and ask if the city would support something like this. 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.000 So I think that is what I can give you. 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.000 It wasn't me saying, oh, my gosh, we need this. You know how I am. 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:15.000 I love connection, and that sounds like something I would do. 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:20.000 It was just that it was coming through because he's the flag person. 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:26.000 All those flags that we seek without this gentleman, he's the one that coordinates all of that. 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.000 So that's how I'm standing here today. 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.000 Do you know how many flags we would be talking about? 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:41.000 Well, I got just one of the assistant city managers, Christina. 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.000 She asked me the same question. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:51.000 I have no idea, but I made a suggestion that they could go in front of City Hall, 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:57.000 in front of the fire departments, in front of the police departments. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:02.000 We did not talk about in front of the rec centers, 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:09.000 but at least just start here to see if the city could appreciate this connectivity 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.000 that we're trying to also have with the county. 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:17.000 And also, it would be really nice to see all of the flags here that we appreciate. 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:25.000 It comes from another part is that we are a city that we're trying to define ourselves. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.000 So if we know that we're connected with the county and the city doing these things. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.000 People have them in their private residences, and they're $50 a year. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.000 And they'll put them out seven or eight times a year. 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:46.000 But right now, since we have Memorial Day, Juneteenth, July the 4th, they're all staying up. 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:50.000 If you all have noticed, they're staying up now, so they'll have to keep coming back. 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:58.000 So bottom line, the Rotary Club will receive some funds from it. 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.000 It's a fundraiser. 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:05.000 And they turn that money back around into the kids for scholarships, things like that, 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.000 you know, for the 501 received. 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.000 So that's really what we have in front of us. 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:18.000 And of course, I would appreciate whatever decision you want to make. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.000 At least we're talking about it. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.000 It's something to discuss. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.000 So that's it. 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 Any other questions? 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.000 One question. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:35.000 The very last sentence here in your original June 2nd, the very last sentence, 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:40.000 "I'd like to pitch this idea to the city council to approve it to the culture." 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.000 Well, I mean, that's what we do whenever we have -- 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:48.000 But you intended this to be more of a city council issue rather than being -- 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.000 Well, I didn't know. 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.000 I didn't know any better. 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.000 So there's three people discussing -- 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.000 Yeah. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.000 Well, I mean, I've got to start somewhere. 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.000 So I'm open to, you know, constructive criticism. 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.000 And I go to the city for everything. 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.000 And they are the ones that have got me. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.000 And they are the ones that say, "You know where you might want to be if that made any sense?" 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.000 That's all that I can depend on. 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.000 That right there is just me getting the process started. 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.000 But you intended to put the entire city council -- 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000 In my ignorance. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.000 Can I just weigh in? 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.000 You know, in my ignorance. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000 Can I just weigh in on that question? 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:29.000 So when a council member starts with their idea, they go to the -- 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:30.000 You see it's the CMO group. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.000 It's the city management group. 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.000 She wants to pitch it to the city council. 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:40.000 But the management group comes back and says, "No, it's more appropriate to go to the community partnership committee." 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.000 To make the recommendation up. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.000 So that's where she starts, as a council member, goes to the management committee. 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:48.000 They got us. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.000 But they tell the council member where the appropriate place to go is. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:57.000 It doesn't mean she just wants to bypass all the procedures and rules. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:04.000 No, I just -- I guess my concern is that I feel like it should start with city council and be pitched there. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:11.000 Right. You know, then the city council is the executive branch of the city. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.000 And the city manager's office is the legislative branch. 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:19.000 And it seems like, in my opinion, they were jumped in quickly, the legislative branch. 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.000 And so that was what confused me. 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.000 So the council is the legislative branch. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000 Okay, I'm sorry. 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.000 And the manager's office is the executive. 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.000 But it just seems like the city manager's office -- 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:38.000 Well, it goes to the executive to say where's the best place to go because I think they get their funding. 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:46.000 You know, there's a lot of requests for community groups to get city funds to do something that benefits the community. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.000 So that's why they have the community partnership committee. 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:56.000 And that's why the management is saying your request should go there first before it goes to council. 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:02.000 And I don't think this -- this meeting is not intended to be about if the city should get the flags or not. 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:10.000 It's intended to be about if council member Byrd, for our ethics policy as a member of the Rotary Club, can bring that to the council in a way. 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:11.000 Right. 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.000 So -- 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.000 Okay. 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.000 Which, as she said, does not mean that it won't get brought to them. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:22.000 Just that maybe she can't say that she will do it because she's a member of the club or something, essentially. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.000 That's pretty much the answer. 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.000 So what do you guys think? 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:39.000 I'm still concerned about the quantity, but I assume would the CPC be the organization that would make the decision whether it's 100 flags or 1,000? 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.000 I believe -- yeah, I think so. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 I believe so. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.000 They just make the recommendation. 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:52.000 Yeah, I think they would review the expense and determine -- kind of maybe determine how many there would be and then make a recommendation to council on whether or not to approve it. 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.000 And whether there's funds, enough funds available. 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:09.000 But, yeah, putting up flags, I agree with the council on that this would improve the culture of the city, so I'm all for that. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:16.000 I don't know, ethically, if something benefits everybody and not just the one person, then that's not a conflict of interest. 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.000 Right. 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.000 I think I'll also interject and add one thing. 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:34.000 I had just even recognized just today that our council member, new council member, he's a member of the Puanas. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.000 And the Puanas are the people that have been on the fireworks show. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:47.000 So it's something that can just happen to us because we're city leaders of uncertainty and we end up being in these positions. 00:22:47.000 --> 00:23:03.000 But certainly if there is an opportunity for, you know, a public service group to want to do something additional for the people, then it just is today. 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.000 So as far as you know, there would have been no competition for who gets to produce the flags. 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.000 It's either fireworks or flags. 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:17.000 So the Rotary only has the flag photo, is that right? 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.000 Yes. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.000 Okay. 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:24.000 Yeah, they have the flag focus and, you know, that's what they do. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:33.000 But they never, I mean, just the idea of city stuff, and we see it on the county buildings in front of the county. 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:36.000 It's so beautiful, you know. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:50.000 And then if this doesn't work out for all of us, then we'll have the citizen to come in and bring the flag. 00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:10.000 Well, I'm just, I'm looking for a remedy here. So if I was in that position, I would ask you if this happened again and someone from Rotary came to you, would you not think it probably smarter to say, look, I'm on council. 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000 That's for you to pitch to the council. 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:20.000 You know, that's the direction that I need. And that's not only that, but for all of the members. If that's the direction that you all give. 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:25.000 If that's the way to resolve this, because, you know, I'm picking this up. 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:34.000 And during the five days, I'm going to Rotary Club, ethics board, the CPC, how did all these people get involved from a SOPA request to buy flags? 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:45.000 So if there's a message or a lesson to learn here, maybe it's sometimes, and this is, you know, this is something that I've experienced for 30 years in this town. 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.000 You get elected and you want to help, and I get that completely. 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:54.000 And that's the difference between some elected positions and being a member of Rotary. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:01.000 There's just a time when you got to throw that flag up and go, hey, that's your, you know, I can't help you there. I'm on council. 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:06.000 So that's what I'm struggling with, because I know your good intentions. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:14.000 And you know what? I don't even really think you need to struggle with that because if you all come to an agreement as to how we should handle this in this regard, 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:22.000 because I know I'm not going to be the only one and the other two people are not. Davis, Jesse Davis, you know, he was in Rotary Club. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:30.000 So these things just happened. And so we have to look for you all to give us a direction and we will take that. 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.000 I don't think anybody would be in. 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:39.000 The issue is that the three of us, we were not here to give you direction at all. We have two options tonight. 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:44.000 Either tear this up and throw out the trash or send this to a hearing on the ethics committee. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.000 That's not correct. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.000 This is just advisory. We're just giving advice. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.000 Well. 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.000 We're saying do it or don't do it. 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.000 Do it or don't do what? 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:00.000 If you look at how the request came in, it's to make a determination. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:05.000 Number one is a conflict of interest or is she using improper influence? 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:12.000 And when you look at the background facts, she's a member of the Rotary Club, but she's not on the board. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.000 She serves on that community partnership committee. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.000 I'm actually on the board. I'm on the board of the Rotary Club. 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:25.000 So she's on the board. So that's not correct. 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.000 But the person that asked me also, I'm sorry to interrupt, he's also on the board. 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.000 Okay. So she is a board member of the Rotary Club. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:40.000 So looking at the improper influence section of your ordinance, it's up to you whether you want to make a recommendation. 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:47.000 Should she recuse herself from the community partnership committee when they consider this issue? 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:53.000 Should she recuse herself from the council if it goes up to council? 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.000 I think that's the guidance she's looking for. 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:05.000 I just don't see a conflict of interest here because it is one of those things that would benefit everybody. 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.000 The money's going to go to scholarships. 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000 I think we're brain screwing this a little bit. 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.000 So that was the first part of the question. 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.000 The second one is there going to be any improper influence. 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:24.000 Okay. Are you guys in line with there's no conflict of interest or do you think there might be? 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.000 I don't see a conflict of interest. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.000 Okay. So we're good on the first one. 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:36.000 So the second one is improper influence. 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:42.000 I'd say yes, if there was a competing black fund at Kiwanis. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:51.000 But since it's a non-profit and the money's not going to benefit members, then I don't see an undue influence. 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.000 What about you, Tom? 00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:09.000 I'm just thinking, as David just did, is there a potential one or more organizations that would like to do the work as opposed to put up the flags and take them down 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:13.000 other than the Rotary? 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:19.000 I think for improper influence, you look at page nine of your ethics ordinance under E. 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:24.000 Does it appear that she's securing special privileges or benefits? 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.000 No. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:32.000 Does it look like she's granting any special consideration, treatment, or advantage to a citizen, individual, business organization, 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:44.000 or group beyond that as which is normally available to every other citizen, individual, business organization, or group? 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:51.000 Again, it's one of those things that would benefit everybody, so it's not any specific. 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.000 I don't think there's improper influence. 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.000 So it doesn't look like she's trying to use her position to -- 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.000 Special consideration, special treatment. 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:09.000 Yeah, and then there's no evidence that she's trying to influence the city or anybody else. 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.000 So the other exception -- the other provision I don't think applies. 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:21.000 State or local government agencies, that she's acting as a reference, that one wouldn't apply. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:34.000 So that would be the second thing you can consider, whether there's an improper use of an influence in bringing this forward. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.000 I personally don't see it on this one. 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.000 So on both counts, we don't see any issues. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:55.000 Would make a motion that the board finds whether there's conflict of interest under Section 2-7(3)A. 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.000 What's the motion? 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:03.000 I make a motion that there is no conflict of interest in this proposal. 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.000 Under that ethics ordinance? 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.000 Under that ethics ordinance, yes, as written. 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.000 And then there should be a second? 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.000 Second. 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:17.000 So all in favor of the motion that there is no conflict of interest? 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000 Aye. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.000 We're just taking one at a time, is that right? 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.000 Right. 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.000 Okay. 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:27.000 So now we're moving to a motion about undue influence. 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.000 Improper -- 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.000 Improper influence. 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:35.000 I move we dismiss that, considering how many options there were used. 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.000 I'm taking that. 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:38.000 All in favor? 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:39.000 Aye. 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.000 Aye. 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:48.000 So this hearing is now completed. 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.000 Thank you very much.