WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.240 >> Okay everybody, good evening and welcome to the Monday, February 4th, 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.480 2019 City of Denton Traffic Safety Commission. 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:16.120 It is 5 31, we have a quorum and we will get started. 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:26.760 Number 1 on our agenda is items-- under items for consideration is 1A TSC 19-008 which is 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:30.520 to consider approval of the minutes for the Traffic Safety Commission meeting 00:00:30.520 --> 00:00:34.480 for January 7th, 2019. 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:37.480 Has everybody had a chance to take a look at the minutes? 00:00:37.480 --> 00:00:41.600 Were there any corrections? 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:46.160 Okay, in that case, do we have a motion for approval? 00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:47.480 >> Motion for approval. 00:00:47.480 --> 00:00:49.000 >> And do we have a second? 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:49.600 >> Second. 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.200 >> All right, everyone in favor? 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:51.800 >> Aye. 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:52.600 >> Aye. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:54.080 >> Opposed? 00:00:54.080 --> 00:00:56.840 Excellent, unanimous. 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:05.960 That brings us to item 1B TSC 19-009 which is to receive a report, hold a discussion 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:10.840 and provide staff direction regarding bicycle lanes on West Hickory Street 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:15.440 between Avenue B and Welsh Streets. 00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:30.680 >> And Mark is chewing, sorry. 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:35.320 >> I'm sorry, I thought I had another item before I apologize. 00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:43.120 Good evening, Mark Oliphant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator. 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:49.880 We'll be talking about bicycle lanes on Hickory Street in the Fry Street area, two block area. 00:01:49.880 --> 00:01:58.040 This is a hot topic, we brought it last week to the Mobility Committee and discussed it there. 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:03.920 I also like to get the Traffic Safety Commission's take on it as well. 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:10.120 Just to orient you, so Hickory Street is a one-way eastbound road with two lanes parking 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.480 on both sides currently in this area. 00:02:13.480 --> 00:02:20.800 There are businesses, bars, restaurants and so forth. 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:27.160 In the current approved mobility, I'm sorry, Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan, 00:02:27.160 --> 00:02:36.680 it calls for a bike lane along the length of Hickory Street from I-35 here all the way 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:41.360 to Carroll Boulevard and this portion is a part of that. 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:47.000 In the Oak Gateway Area Plan, that is also discussed, the same stretch of road. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:53.840 There are two recommendations, the original create a continuous bike lane along Hickory Street 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:58.560 and develop a street cross section for Hickory Street which incorporates a number 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:10.480 of different speed limits, rights of way, overhead utilities, things like that. 00:03:10.480 --> 00:03:20.520 Parking patterns, we installed a camera on the corner of Hickory and Fry Street 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.400 and recorded parking patterns for about one week. 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:31.120 This was in, I want to say August or September once school had started 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:35.960 and recorded what the patterns were of people parking here, where they were going. 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:41.920 During the day, during school, many of them went to UNT but outside of those hours, 00:03:41.920 --> 00:03:46.520 they also did park there and go to restaurants, bars and other things like that, 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.480 go to the other side of the street. 00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:55.520 So we, because this was a controversial issue, we hired a consultant, 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.680 a very well-known company called Alta Planning and Design. 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:03.520 They're nationally recognized for Bicycle and Pedestrian work and they came 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.840 up with five different options for us for this area. 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.040 I'm going to go through each of those. 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:12.680 So option one, I'll say option one and two are very similar. 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:14.600 They involve removing parking on the street. 00:04:14.600 --> 00:04:19.160 We would lose an area of 20 to 24 parking spaces 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:23.600 and we would have bike lanes on the streets. 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:25.320 So here's the first one. 00:04:25.320 --> 00:04:30.160 We remove parking on the north side of Hickory Street and then we would have a, 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.440 what we call a parking protected bike lane. 00:04:33.440 --> 00:04:38.920 You can see on the south side, the parallel parking protects the bike lane 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:42.920 and you have about a three-foot buffer with that bike lane there. 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:44.800 That's on the first block. 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.680 On the second block, similar, although it would no longer be parking protected, 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.360 parking would be retained on the north side. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.800 And then up to Welch Street, you'd keep your bike lane 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.680 on the south side parking on the north side. 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:04.680 Option two is somewhat similar except this one, 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:08.520 we would not have the bike lane be parking protected. 00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:12.920 The parking would stay on the north side of Hickory Street 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.640 and you would still have a buffer though between the bike lane 00:05:16.640 --> 00:05:20.680 and the regular vehicular travel lane. 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:22.000 I'm going to continue on here. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.920 You can see in the green, this is what's called a bike box. 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:29.680 It's at Avenue A and-- oh, this is actually-- I'm sorry, Avenue A is on this side. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:30.920 Fry is here. 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.920 This is helps when you have a red light or something that bicycles can get 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:41.800 in front of the cars where they can see them and then get repositioned on the lanes 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.440 and ending at Welch Street. 00:05:43.440 --> 00:05:48.840 So, those are the two options that keep the lanes right or give a-- 00:05:48.840 --> 00:05:58.600 it gives a bike lane in harmony with the plan and that lane stays on the road. 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.000 Option three, here we go. 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.360 This one is interesting. 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.640 It keeps all of the on-street parking and for a one-block section, 00:06:06.640 --> 00:06:12.320 it moves the bike lane behind the curb, a cycle track is what we call that. 00:06:12.320 --> 00:06:13.840 So, let's go. 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:16.840 So, right now currently we have a nine-foot sidewalk 00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:19.240 on the south side of Hickory Street. 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:26.280 This would bring in a bike lane, have a small curb and then have the sidewalk next 00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:28.800 to it more or less for the one-block section. 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.080 And this way, you save all of the parking. 00:06:32.080 --> 00:06:39.760 Similar bike box here, the bicycles would return to traffic once they get 00:06:39.760 --> 00:06:44.720 to Avenue A Fry and then continue on like those first two options. 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:51.560 And so, this saves a lot of parking between Avenue B and Avenue A Fry. 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:56.360 Option four, this is our least favorite option from a traffic 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:02.840 and transportation engineering because it tries to save everything 00:07:02.840 --> 00:07:05.920 and in the process we lose a travel lane. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:11.000 And the loss of that travel lane would severely adversely impact the throughput 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:15.800 of the roadway, currently you have two lanes but often due to loading 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:20.600 and unloading, cars stopping to parallel park, things like that, 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:22.320 you lose the functionality of one lane. 00:07:22.320 --> 00:07:27.880 So, this takes it down to only one through lane and we do not endorse this 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:31.600 but we at least wanted to show it and show what that would look like. 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:38.520 So, you are from Avenue B to Avenue A Fry and continuing onward. 00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:42.000 You go back at Welch, you get back to two lanes again. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.720 But that would be a severe choke point. 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:49.720 Finally, option five, this one came out fairly late in the game due 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:54.640 to some brainstorming with the Oak Gateway Area Plan working group. 00:07:54.640 --> 00:08:03.120 And what this tries to achieve is slowing down all of the traffic in this area 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:07.800 so that it is a safe place for vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles, 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.240 all of those different user groups to mix. 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:20.480 It would incorporate some add-on features such as speed tables, 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:25.480 raised crosswalks, bulb outs, if you are familiar with those 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:31.080 where near intersections and so forth, the intersection narrows 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:35.640 and that psychologically signals to drivers to slow down. 00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:39.800 One thing we've also thought about adding here is possible mid-block crossings 00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:47.040 between Avenue B and A Fry and between A Fry and Welch because there is 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:50.800 so much pedestrian traffic in the area and there's actually a great deal 00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:56.640 of jaywalking right now just because it's such a popular pedestrian area. 00:08:56.640 --> 00:09:02.920 So, here's another up close there, this is the Fry and Avenue A intersection. 00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:08.640 I'll go to the third slide here, so on your right side you can see these are the bolt 00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:13.920 down features and what we tried to do here was only use features that could be removed 00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:19.520 that were not permanent so that this could in some ways function as an experiment. 00:09:19.520 --> 00:09:24.200 So, up top those are speed tables made out of like high density polymer 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.920 that are bolted to the asphalt. 00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:35.000 Next to it speed cushions similar, those allow for high clearance vehicles such as fire trucks, 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.680 emergency vehicles to transit at a higher rate of speed. 00:09:39.680 --> 00:09:47.120 And below other options, these are a bike rail here made out of steel that bolts 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:52.480 to the road surface and also planters, that's something that's also often used 00:09:52.480 --> 00:10:01.680 to kind of help delineate infrastructure or a more visually appealing means of doing that. 00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:05.160 So, that is our fifth option. 00:10:05.160 --> 00:10:09.400 Now, the mobility committee did give us some direction about this. 00:10:09.400 --> 00:10:17.800 We presented the five options, they preferred option three which is that cycle track 00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:23.400 for the one block length between Avenue B and Avenue A fry. 00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:28.760 But there-- that is one of the least simple options I'll say. 00:10:28.760 --> 00:10:35.440 It does involve coordination with UNT and actually today I was meeting with them talking 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.320 about some of the different options here. 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:44.760 So, either widening that current sidewalk or perhaps separating the bike lane 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:48.000 and the sidewalk we're looking into possibilities. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.360 But then also we are looking at the possibility of changing the traffic pattern, 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:59.840 just investigating what that would look like on Avenue A south of Hickory Street. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:09.960 That's been talked about as a traffic calming feature but it continues the search 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.240 for the perfect solution continues. 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.640 That concludes my presentation, I'd be happy to take your questions. 00:11:15.640 --> 00:11:23.720 >> I have a question about the pattern, the traffic pattern on Avenue A, 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.320 what are they thinking about? 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.640 >> Two possibilities that we're just investigating are either closing off Avenue A 00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:36.880 at Hickory Street, have more or less a cul-de-sac there, vehicles could turn around 00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:41.560 or making it a one-way street just on Avenue A northbound 00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:47.160 so the vehicles won't turn southbound off of Hickory and you avoid the possibility 00:11:47.160 --> 00:11:55.200 of your right hook, vehicle, bicycle, crash possibility. 00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:01.560 That's a lot of bicycle vehicle accidents are that right hook where bicycles are traveling 00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:05.880 on the right side, vehicle doesn't see them, either turns in front of them or into them 00:12:05.880 --> 00:12:09.720 and a dangerous situation, it would avoid that. 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:16.160 Currently though there are UNT buses and DCTA buses that do make the right turn 00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:23.520 so that is something that we certainly have to consider and as we investigate this. 00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:24.880 >> Can we see a visual? 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:32.400 Can you bring up one of the-- on Plan B that they were talking about and then it might change? 00:12:32.400 --> 00:12:38.240 >> Hi, Pritam Deshmukh, traffic engineer for the city. 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:44.040 Let me go back to the maps and talk about this particular alternative. 00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:48.840 What was happening is in the discussion we had with the mobility committee, 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:55.080 it was brought up that why don't we look at adding more parking spaces 00:12:55.080 --> 00:13:06.360 and this would be a good space, this particular segment of Avenue A would be a good section 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:11.600 to look at if we turn it into one way or if we do a-- 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:19.720 shut down this area and convert it into a cul-de-sac, this would be used as unidirectional 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:24.280 which means you can actually angle park on this side and add a bunch of space. 00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:28.920 Currently it looks like parking but this is all loading area, this is loading and loading. 00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:34.360 There are quite a few things that we need to talk to especially bring it back 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.720 to the business owners and see if this is something that they'll be willing to explore. 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:45.960 Talk to UNT, we started that discussion, we haven't received any firm responses as to, 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:52.200 you know, are they on board, how are they-- are they willing to even consider that. 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:57.720 So if we go with this option, it'll be one direction northbound in this direction 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:01.800 and you can actually angle parking the same angle this is 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:08.280 and this signal will be outbound only so there is no inbound access going south. 00:14:08.280 --> 00:14:14.560 And we're looking at some numbers for traffic and from a traffic number standpoint, 00:14:14.560 --> 00:14:20.480 there's very few people that are actually using this leg going south so that is a plus 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:25.000 but there are several as I mentioned, there are several things that we're looking at. 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:31.240 And one of the things that was brought up, if we add parking here then is there a possibility 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.840 of removing the parking ads on Hickory? 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:38.760 So can we do a swap sort of deal and how much or what's the impact? 00:14:38.760 --> 00:14:42.320 So that's the item that we're investigating. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:46.880 We don't have a firm answer since it was just brought up last week. 00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:54.040 We did have a meeting with UNT as a start but we don't have a confirmed answer. 00:14:54.040 --> 00:14:59.280 So on the option that mobility committee picked was option three, 00:14:59.280 --> 00:15:05.520 they also wanted to see if it was feasible as well as they wanted to see 00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:09.360 if there is some kind of balance, you know, not losing the parking 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.160 but at the same time there's a bike lane that is provided. 00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:17.960 So if we go with the closure of this particular street and add parking here, 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:22.000 then there is a chance that we can reconsider and look into option one 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.400 or two as recommendation here. 00:15:24.400 --> 00:15:28.560 So there's a lot of things happening and there is no firm decision. 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:32.320 But I'll leave it up to the committee which option they prefer 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.560 and if they have any questions. 00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:39.480 >> Oh, I just want to say real quickly that it looks like the data that we have 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:47.200 from the traffic study really 90 percent of people who park 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.840 on Hickory Street go south, go over to the university. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:56.440 So losing the parking spots on Hickory and adding them 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:01.080 on Avenue A would serve the purpose really 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:05.920 that the parking spots are serving. 00:16:05.920 --> 00:16:09.520 >> Yes, but we do have to bring it back to the business and make sure 00:16:09.520 --> 00:16:13.080 that they're okay with the swap, they're okay with-- 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.560 and then UNT has to be involved. 00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:17.000 So we haven't really vetted this scenario. 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.120 This just came about last week. 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:21.680 >> Yeah. Well, I think it's something we should. 00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:26.160 That would be something I would say we should continue that discussion. 00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:29.400 >> On that, I'm bringing it back to the business. 00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:33.800 Are we sure that parking spots equal more business for the businesses? 00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:37.360 Are we sure that that's like an even swap or could it be possible 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.240 that if we build a more bike pedestrian friendly street 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.000 that that actually long term increases business for businesses? 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.640 Do we know-- do we have much data on that? 00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:53.000 >> I think he has an answer but I would like to start with some of the businesses 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.400 and correct me if I'm wrong Mark, you've talked to Chipotle. 00:16:56.400 --> 00:16:59.120 They don't really have parking per se. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.640 They're using city parking as their parking. 00:17:01.640 --> 00:17:04.760 So there is no assigned or area parking for them. 00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:08.320 So if they start producing the number of parking that is available, 00:17:08.320 --> 00:17:12.680 then really those people that really want to come to this area wouldn't show up for lunch. 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.640 But he has some research information on-- 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:21.600 >> Yeah. And it really, honestly, isn't that a chance that businesses take 00:17:21.600 --> 00:17:28.600 when you put your business in the middle of a high pedestrian low parked area, 00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:35.280 you're making that business decision that you want traffic, foot traffic, not car traffic 00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:37.640 because there's another Chipotle at Razor Ranch. 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:38.960 You can drive to it. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:39.760 >> Right. 00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:41.520 >> OK. I'm sorry Mark. 00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:42.200 Carry on. 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.800 >> No, that's fine. 00:17:43.800 --> 00:17:46.400 There is scholarship out there. 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.280 There's articles and so forth that discuss this and in a number 00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:56.760 of contexts, yes, making a neighborhood or an area more pedestrian 00:17:56.760 --> 00:18:03.320 and bicycle friendly can definitely contribute to improvements in business to greater sales. 00:18:03.320 --> 00:18:09.240 I do have a hard time though, I don't know quite what the word is, 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:13.560 comparing those directly to Fry Street and downtown Denton. 00:18:13.560 --> 00:18:21.120 A lot of the research is large metropolitan areas, New York City, Philadelphia, Canada, 00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:27.480 Toronto where you have a robust grid network, you have people who are accustomed 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.320 to using public transit, to walking many places and things like that. 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:37.640 So, I haven't seen something yet that I feel comfortable putting in front 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:43.680 of the business owners and saying I really think this will be a good tradeoff to you 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:49.120 but I agree that there is evidence out there for this in a number of contexts 00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:55.440 and we've had some great research provided to us to use for that. 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.800 >> Well, one thing to that point is just I'm curious too, it's hard to imagine it 00:18:59.800 --> 00:19:03.080 because Denton has been so suburban even in its urban areas. 00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:07.520 We've built around cars for so many years but, you know, I think of like Portland 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:10.760 and Amsterdam and these cities that you just go back 20, 30 years ago 00:19:10.760 --> 00:19:12.120 and they had no bike infrastructure. 00:19:12.120 --> 00:19:15.200 Now, they're like known for biking because they built it. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.440 >> Right. 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.280 >> And so, it's hard to ever know what's going to happen but, you know, 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:21.000 this area is already really popular and I think about how many times I've been 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.200 to Chipotle, I've never driven a car there and I've been there a lot. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.880 I've had too many burritos there. 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.040 And so, anyway, I just am curious too if we're overestimating because we're 00:19:32.040 --> 00:19:34.920 so used to seeing I park and I walk into a store 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.800 that we're underestimating how many people are walking from UNT and their cars parked 00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:41.200 in a parking garage a long ways away but they're spending the day there 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.120 and they're going to all these businesses. 00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:46.600 So, it would be great if we-- I'd love to see if we could figure out a way 00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:48.560 to even look at that. 00:19:48.560 --> 00:19:52.000 The other thing is we-- you know, when we took away the parking, 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.960 I'm sure that's made it people park there longer and hurt their business 00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:00.920 and we may-- we took away the pay parking in that area and I can't imagine 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:03.960 that that didn't hurt businesses for all that because people park there longer 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.240 and just risk it with the ticket if there's no time period there. 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.840 So, I'm wondering if that's something we could relook at as a way to ensure 00:20:10.840 --> 00:20:14.160 that people are going to Chipotle, getting their car out of the way 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.760 so a new customer can go into those spots. 00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:22.320 >> I will say out of all of the areas of Denton that I'm familiar with, this is-- 00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:28.480 this intersection, Frye Avenue A and Hickory is one of the most pedestrian dents 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.320 and so if there is a location in Denton that would be conducive, 00:20:32.320 --> 00:20:38.480 I think this would be a very good candidate but I'm just, you know, it's-- 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:45.000 when someone's livelihood is on the line, I'm very hesitant to make that direct 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.800 recommendation or approach. 00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:51.200 >> And actually, to your point about how the car turnover, 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.320 I did the math on the numbers were provided. 00:20:54.320 --> 00:21:01.920 So, on the southbound side, only 89 cars park there during that-- 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:09.200 one of these average days when if we had enforced paid two-hour parking, 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.680 we could have parked 144 cars there. 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.920 So, those businesses, if they were thinking about this, 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:24.640 we are losing over 50 cars worth of business because people are parking 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.520 for the day to go to school. 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:33.560 So, they're, you know, kind of shooting themselves in the foot here because they are-- 00:21:33.560 --> 00:21:38.960 they want parking yet don't want paid parking and-- but in reality, 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:44.480 people are parking and like I said, even if we take out two spots there, 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:50.360 we should have about 132 cars turning over during the course of the day instead 00:21:50.360 --> 00:21:54.480 of 89 cars on the south side turning over. 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.520 So, they're losing-- I mean, the area is losing warm bodies anyway. 00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:04.760 >> I do know the Oak Gateway area plan did recommend parking benefit districts 00:22:04.760 --> 00:22:08.520 and from speaking with business owners there, I know there's a great deal 00:22:08.520 --> 00:22:13.600 of interest in that, but that would all have to be worked out how 00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:16.960 that might work and so forth. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.960 >> OK. Do we want to hear? 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.760 >> I think that's your own too, Hedda. 00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:24.240 >> I'm sorry? 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.920 >> Mr. Allen had a question also. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.120 >> I just want to point out something to you. 00:22:28.120 --> 00:22:34.320 All the circulars on the whole-- on the entire campus being green, the discovery park, 00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:40.760 they all come down and they turn right on Avenue A and they go back through Mulberry to Welsh. 00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:44.920 Now, if they could-- they could go down to Welsh and take a right but they can't do it 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:51.240 with that corner because you've got two lanes coming up blocking 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.800 and that 35-foot bus can't make that right turn. 00:22:54.800 --> 00:23:00.360 And you've got the handicapped corner which the wheel goes up on. 00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:05.720 So, you'd have to change that whole corner and that whole thing to make it work. 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.120 And you're going to hear this from UNT because we're talking about all-- 00:23:10.120 --> 00:23:14.840 the entire circulars of the being green, they go to Fouts Field, they go to Apogee, 00:23:14.840 --> 00:23:20.480 they all come down Hickory and turn right at Avenue A. And they could go up-- 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.600 if you could work, make it work and go up to the corner if you want to. 00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:29.120 But then-- and we could also go straight out from Welsh to Oak. 00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:33.560 But you'd have to put a stoplight there to make it safe for us to make a left turn 00:23:33.560 --> 00:23:36.280 on Oak and go out to Bonnie Bray. 00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:41.760 Now, if you did that, it wouldn't bother us as far as the 35-foot bus. 00:23:41.760 --> 00:23:47.800 But I got a question, you know, we've been doing this thing for two years. 00:23:47.800 --> 00:23:55.840 We started with taking the-- remember, we started with taking off the parking, 00:23:55.840 --> 00:23:57.320 paying the parking. 00:23:57.320 --> 00:23:59.760 He didn't want to do the nickels and dimes. 00:23:59.760 --> 00:24:04.600 And then we went to the, you know, the smartphone thing. 00:24:04.600 --> 00:24:05.880 They said, "Well, let's take it all off." 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:11.240 Then the business owner said, "Well, you know, we want it just like the square. 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:12.920 We want the two-hour parking." 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:14.600 But nobody enforces it. 00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:19.200 Then, "Oh, yeah, then we gave the enforcement to UNT." 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:21.800 And nobody enforces it. 00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:26.280 So, you know, and then my other question is if-- 00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:31.320 in order to do the pedestrian, the bicycle people right, they need-- 00:24:31.320 --> 00:24:36.560 they need to-- they don't need to go off here and-- they need a one path. 00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:40.600 Otherwise, not just casual, but if you're going to have, you know, 00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:42.560 tournaments and you get a lot of people. 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:47.240 >> Yeah, there are definite objections from the cycling community to being diverted off 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:56.280 of the main roadway under option three for a block and then return to the pavement 00:24:56.280 --> 00:25:00.840 and what's included in leaving and returning to the roadway 00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:04.120 and possible dangerous interactions with moving vehicles. 00:25:04.120 --> 00:25:08.200 >> Well, I just want to point the bus thing out to you. 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:09.040 >> I appreciate that. 00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:14.120 >> It can be made-- it can be done, but it's going to cost you money to fix Welsh 00:25:14.120 --> 00:25:20.160 and Hickory for us to make a right turn there and then for us to stop signs. 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.760 I mean, not a stop sign, but an actual light to get onto Oak. 00:25:24.760 --> 00:25:27.400 Because of that high berm on the right-hand side, 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:35.200 we can't see the oncoming traffic at Oak and Hickory-- Oak and Welsh, I'm sorry. 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:36.560 >> Thank you. 00:25:36.560 --> 00:25:39.160 >> Jeff. 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.440 >> Yeah, I was just curious in your suggestion on-- 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:48.160 or one of the suggestions on switching the parking spots from Hickory to Avenue A, 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.960 is it an even swap or what's the numbers on that? 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.600 >> It's close. 00:25:55.600 --> 00:26:06.080 We think we could put 16 to 20 on that west side diagonal angled parking, 00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:09.920 but you would lose, I think, 24 up here. 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.760 So it's not quite, but you save some of them. 00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:14.440 >> Close. 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.760 >> To point out that option where you would like to-- 00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.200 >> Yeah. 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:24.680 >> Parking on both sides of the street is in 19 spaces, so it's in the realm of possible. 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.520 You might be able to swap it. 00:26:27.520 --> 00:26:33.760 >> But you're not making any allowance for deliveries. 00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:36.560 >> That's true. 00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:41.720 Currently, here, it's marked as a loading zone. 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:47.440 What we hear is it's mostly used for delivery drivers of the Jimmy Johns and things 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:52.560 like that who quickly park there, run in and get their deliveries and take them out. 00:26:52.560 --> 00:26:58.080 If it were 16 on that side, then we would have space for a delivery area. 00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:01.320 I think if we went to 20, we wouldn't have that space or a loading zone. 00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:05.360 >> Well, I mean, it's just-- it's not just Jimmy Johns, it's Cisco. 00:27:05.360 --> 00:27:06.200 >> Oh, right. 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.080 The big ones as well. 00:27:07.080 --> 00:27:08.280 >> With a 40-foot van. 00:27:08.280 --> 00:27:08.640 >> Yeah. 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:13.760 >> And then those people would have to pull into the very hall and they'd go back in there. 00:27:13.760 --> 00:27:14.200 >> Right here. 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:18.480 >> I don't know what they deliver, but there's a lot of cars that go back in there. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:24.840 >> I had a couple of just clarifications. 00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:30.280 On option two, when you said the buffer, was that paint or was that protected on option two? 00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:33.960 >> Just paint on option two. 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:39.720 With that width, you could potentially put the plastic-- the flexible delineator posts, 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:45.120 but there's not enough width to put a planter or something like that. 00:27:45.120 --> 00:27:49.880 Potentially one of those, if you recall from option three-- or I'm sorry, option five, 00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:55.760 one of those bolt down could-- you see here, it's down through the middle. 00:27:55.760 --> 00:28:01.280 That is a potential option and it has those plastic reflective posts. 00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:05.680 >> So otherwise, option one is the only one that has an actual protected bike lane built 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.640 into the proposal. 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:06.640 >> Correct. 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:07.840 >> OK. 00:28:07.840 --> 00:28:14.400 >> You said-- did I hear you say that the mobility committee suggested five 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.600 and you said it was three? 00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:17.320 >> Three. 00:28:17.320 --> 00:28:19.680 >> What was the five? 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.160 >> Which one did the mobility-- 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:22.240 >> Yeah, three, three. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.640 Of the five options, they like number three. 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.280 I think that was my-- yeah, of the five, they like number three. 00:28:28.280 --> 00:28:34.880 >> All right, Michelle, we have several cards. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.680 Should we continue our discussion post hearing from the public? 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:47.080 OK. So I have four cards and I'll call you up, but if anybody else wants to speak on this 00:28:47.080 --> 00:28:52.560 who has not yet submitted a card, you can still speak, fill out a card afterward. 00:28:52.560 --> 00:28:55.160 So I have Alejandro first. 00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.800 So if you would come up to the front, state your name and your address 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:03.040 and then give us your comments. 00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:03.760 >> Howdy. 00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:04.120 OK. 00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:05.040 >> And questions. 00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:06.120 >> OK. Howdy. 00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:08.000 My name is Alejandro Guerrero Juarez. 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:13.160 I live at 425 Fulton Street, 76201 Denton, Texas. 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:18.200 And I have been following this issue since the open hall from the committee, 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:25.280 the West Oak Committee or something like that, in November or December at Calhoun Middle School. 00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:30.560 And I also spoke-- I attended and spoke at the last city council meeting about three weeks ago 00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:35.320 about this issue as well and also watched the live stream of the mobility committee 00:29:35.320 --> 00:29:38.320 when during my break at work. 00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:41.480 I wanted to attend, but I have to be at work like the next minute. 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.360 So I instead watched the live stream so I can stay informed about it. 00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:48.080 And I bring up the live stream because there was one moment in particular 00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:53.280 where I verbally expressed my frustration at my computer and that only happens 00:29:53.280 --> 00:29:55.240 when I'm playing video games, only. 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:00.640 So for me to do that about a committee hearing or to a committee hearing should say a lot 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.520 about how worried I am about this. 00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:10.040 And so I don't-- I'm not going to mention what the moment was, who was speaking. 00:30:10.040 --> 00:30:14.480 I just want-- I just want you guys to know that there was one point that I was really frustrated 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:20.400 and that's why I'm here today because I asked myself and I want you guys to ask yourself 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:23.760 and really think about it, what are we prioritizing here? 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:31.600 Are we prioritizing the safety of not only cyclists but all citizens of the community? 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:35.680 Are we prioritizing their safety or are we prioritizing the success 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.920 of the businesses, of the local businesses? 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.640 I understand both are really important for communities to exist and to prosper 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:44.400 and to grow and to succeed. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.960 I visit a lot of the restaurants down here. 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:52.160 I go to Jimmy John's a lot, I go to Sushi Cafe a lot, and I also go to Ora Coffee a lot. 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.320 And I don't want to see those businesses fail. 00:30:54.320 --> 00:30:58.560 I want them to succeed as any community should see their businesses succeed. 00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:02.720 But as a citizen that walks around here a lot and someone that used to cycle 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:07.200 around here a lot, I want you guys to think about it. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.480 Who are we prioritizing? 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:10.080 What are we prioritizing? 00:31:10.080 --> 00:31:15.920 And that's what I really want you guys to understand, like a car is like a ton. 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:17.840 A bike has nothing against the car. 00:31:17.840 --> 00:31:23.680 A car can completely demolish a bicycle, completely demolish a cyclist. 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.880 The cars should be the least of our focuses. 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:32.480 And this issue really right now, kind of straight away, but this issue really right now 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:37.520 is about who are we prioritizing and this should be fixed soon rather than later 00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:41.040 because I know some of you guys have been working on it for two plus years on this issue. 00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:43.920 And I've only been following it for like four months. 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.480 But this is an issue that needs to be fixed now. 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.320 And I know the streets need to be paved soon. 00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:55.920 And I just want to say I'm in favor of a bike lane on the south side towards UNT 00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.840 because we want a consistent path of bike lane like Mr. Owens mentioned. 00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:01.920 We want a consistency in the bike lane. 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.960 And then parking, I know we're going to lose parking for a lot of the local businesses. 00:32:07.600 --> 00:32:08.960 But we can fix that later. 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.040 Oh, sorry. 00:32:11.040 --> 00:32:11.840 I didn't notice. 00:32:11.840 --> 00:32:12.320 Okay. 00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:12.640 Thank you. 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.240 Okay. 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.520 All right. 00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:18.640 You have questions? 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:19.120 Oh, okay. 00:32:19.120 --> 00:32:25.440 Garrett, if you would come to the front, state your name, your address. 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.880 And I forgot to tell Alejandro he had three minutes. 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:29.840 But you did great. 00:32:29.840 --> 00:32:33.600 Hi, I'm Garrett Rimmor. 00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:35.120 I'm at 1700 Crescent. 00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:44.080 And yeah, just I agree with the written staff recommendation for options one or two. 00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:50.560 I haven't really, I guess, voiced the negatives that I see in some of the plans. 00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:55.920 So I'd like to kind of walk through a little bit of some of my preferences for some of them. 00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:03.920 Some of the negatives that I see with option one is that it's not the most consistent 00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:08.560 of the plans. If you look further up on back towards Bonnie Bray on Hickory, 00:33:08.560 --> 00:33:13.280 you have parking on the north side and bike lane on the south with the two travel lanes in between. 00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:20.080 This one kind of flip flops it during this area so that you do end up with cars on the south, 00:33:20.080 --> 00:33:22.640 parked on south side with the bike lane. 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.160 So you get a little bit of lane shifting. 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:27.120 And so I'm not sure on the effect that'll have with the drivers. 00:33:27.120 --> 00:33:29.440 But it is a notable, notable difference. 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.400 And then I also have some concerns about coming out from behind a row of parked cars 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:42.000 at the traffic light and kind of rejoining traffic a bit. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.680 It kind of seems like you could hide behind the cars and kind of surprise the driver if 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.200 they forget about you as you travel down that segment of Hickory. 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:53.040 So option two is my favorite. 00:33:53.040 --> 00:33:56.880 It lines up with the existing road configuration like before and after. 00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.920 So I think it's the one that makes the most sense. 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:07.040 It's also the one that's most, I guess, fiscally responsible and has the lowest price. 00:34:07.040 --> 00:34:14.000 I would like to see vertical delineators of some sort on there just to try to give an extra buffer. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.200 I think otherwise you may end up seeing like a Highland Street type behavior as far as 00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:21.840 the bike lane being used for loading and unloading. 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:27.600 And then option three, the cycle track. 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.520 I like the thought and effort in trying to take all of the checkboxes to keep people happy, 00:34:33.520 --> 00:34:35.840 but it feels kind of underdeveloped at this time. 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:43.600 I think a cycle track would be a good potential for use in Denton if it were more places. 00:34:43.600 --> 00:34:46.160 But here we're trying to use it to patch a single issue. 00:34:46.160 --> 00:34:50.320 And so you're going to create a very inconsistent path through the area 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:55.040 with jumping on and off into the road and out of the road. 00:34:55.040 --> 00:35:02.000 So it's also a downhill, so I've been kind of trying to, whenever I ride down Hickory, 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.120 try to visualize moving over to the sidewalk and traveling down it. 00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:09.440 And you clear that block in very little time. 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.720 And so the idea of trying to go up on there mixed with potentially pedestrian traffic, 00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:20.240 which I'm sure once it gets done, it has a potential for just being a very nice sidewalk 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:25.440 and there'll be person bicycle conflict created. 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.480 And so yeah, I just think it needs more work. 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:32.800 - You've got eight seconds. 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:39.680 - Okay, and then kind of the rest, I think kind of speak for themselves, the calm street. 00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:44.160 I think you'll have issues with buses and severely making all the turns. 00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:46.240 So thank you for your time. 00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:47.280 - All right, thank you. 00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:56.880 - Okay, Daisy, and give us your name, address. 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:00.240 - Hi there, my name's Daisy Horta. 00:36:00.240 --> 00:36:03.120 I am at 3252 Bent Creek Drive. 00:36:03.120 --> 00:36:08.320 On my card, I think I selected I was in support, and I think what I meant by that 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.920 in my comments was I'm supportive of any kind of infrastructure that helps bicycles, 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:16.800 but I am not in support of option three for some of the reasons that Garrett had stated. 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:21.280 And also things to consider that I have not yet heard were doors, opening doors. 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:26.320 That's one of the reasons, the top reasons, at least that I've seen in articles 00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.600 that cause accidents is coming from behind. 00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:35.680 I've heard several people mention cyclists coming from behind cars, but the doors is an issue. 00:36:35.680 --> 00:36:43.040 So with option three, we would have if people are carpooling, the passenger door option, 00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:47.040 that barrier that would separate the pedestrians from the cyclists. 00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:51.200 Closing in on that downhill, very short option space. 00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:54.080 Someone mentioned jaywalking, and that's jaywalking on streets. 00:36:54.080 --> 00:37:01.200 So who's to say that pedestrians wouldn't jaywalk on the cycle line barrier with option three, 00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:05.040 given that they might be on their phones and, you know, not complaining, 00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:08.480 but just being realistic of what a college campus is like. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:15.600 It's not very linear, or the pedestrians are not very linear in the way that they walk. 00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:20.320 I don't remember off the top of my head which one was option one or two, 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:24.800 but it seemed like both of them wore bike lanes on the street, and I am in favor of that. 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:31.520 Yes, there are, you know, the parking spaces that would be removed. 00:37:31.520 --> 00:37:36.640 And I thank you, all of you, for doing your research and looking at traffic patterns and 00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:39.280 looking at both sides of the situation. 00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:40.320 So that is appreciated. 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:44.000 I know that sometimes you might get some people who complain, so thank you. 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.640 But that's the reason why I'm not in favor of option three, 00:37:48.640 --> 00:37:52.400 but I am in favor of something that helps in any way. 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.720 And mostly just thank you. 00:37:54.720 --> 00:37:57.920 Thank you. 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:01.520 Okay, and Susie. 00:38:07.600 --> 00:38:23.600 Hi, I'm Susie, I live at 1700 Crescent Street. 00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:25.600 Susie Rumore is my full name. 00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:30.560 And what I want to look at is just sort of, you know, 00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:33.600 if you look at a lot of Denton's long-term planning documents. 00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:35.200 Sorry, I'm trying to start my stopwatch. 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.880 So if you look at a lot of Denton's long-term planning, 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.000 there's a big emphasis on more walking and biking, right? 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:46.160 So the reasons for that are air quality, first of all. 00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:48.480 You know, our air quality is not great here. 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.560 Public health, a lot of us sit a lot. 00:38:50.560 --> 00:38:55.840 Biking and walking is an easy way for us to incorporate some physical activity into our day. 00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:00.480 There's noise pollution, road safety, and all of that adds up to quality of life. 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.440 So, you know, in order to encourage more people to bike, we have to have things that feel safe. 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.960 I found it, okay. 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:15.280 All right, so we need people to feel safe, right? 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:22.480 This is from the North Central Texas Council of Government's Bicycle Opinion Survey last year. 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.040 And if you look at this leftmost bar, 00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:30.560 it sort of breaks down in the DFW area how people feel about biking. 00:39:30.560 --> 00:39:33.040 So the green is strong and fearless, that is not me. 00:39:33.040 --> 00:39:35.840 I'm more of the yellow, the enthused and confident, I'll do it. 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.760 I'm fairly confident, but I still get scared and will avoid certain roads. 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.760 But then if you look, there's 36% of people out there are interested but concerned. 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:45.520 They would ride more if they felt safe. 00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:50.480 And the number one way that we make people feel safe is we separate them from car traffic. 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.080 And the way we keep them safe is we have consistent connected infrastructure. 00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:01.520 Okay, so if you look, the next part that we have concerns about is parking. 00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:04.320 That is the biggest thing that's preventing us from doing option one or two, 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.920 is concerns about losing parking. 00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:14.720 If you look at the Oak Gateway Area Plan slide show from the workshop in February of last year, 00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:20.880 they told us that 24,000 people live in this O-Gap area. 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.600 So you can see I-35 where that green dot is on the left. 00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:26.560 Forget what the road is. 00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:28.400 Okay, Carol is on the far right. 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.280 This area around UNT has 24,000 people. 00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:33.360 I come from a town of about 25,000. 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.600 We have multiple coffee shops, multiple bars. 00:40:35.600 --> 00:40:40.000 They're all sustained with just 25,000 people spread over a much bigger area. 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.080 So 24,000 people. 00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:48.000 I live outside of this area, but I'm still within a mile or a six-minute bike ride from this area. 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.200 Okay, so they have 24,000 customers. 00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:54.000 So plus, or potential customers. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.920 So if you look at the sort of peach-colored things, that's multi-family. 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.360 There's apartments within like a one-minute walk from this area. 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:04.240 You have tons of apartments over here. 00:41:04.240 --> 00:41:08.880 All of this is within about a mile and a half, which is within a 10-minute bike ride. 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:11.440 So I mean, there's tons of people here. 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.760 There's a huge supply of possible customers. 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:15.040 There's thousands of commuters. 00:41:15.040 --> 00:41:17.280 There's thousands of parking spots at UNT. 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:21.760 Most people, once they park at UNT, they're not going to move their car to try to find a parking 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.720 spot at Hickory Street because you're not going to find one. 00:41:24.720 --> 00:41:28.000 They just park somewhere on the UNT campus with their parking permit, 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.960 and then they just sort of walk everywhere they need to go before they leave for the day. 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.640 So I mean, there's thousands of parking spots nearby. 00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:37.440 Thousands of residents who don't really need to move their car. 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:42.320 Freshmen at UNT have to park over by Apogee Stadium on the other side of I-35. 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.400 They're not going to walk down there and drive up there. 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:46.080 So there's plenty of customers. 00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:51.040 Hopefully, we will make a decision that is keeping people safe. 00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:57.760 >> Thank you. 00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:58.800 >> All right, thank you. 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:02.400 Okay, that's all the cards. 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:06.640 Is there anybody else who wants to speak who did not submit a card? 00:42:06.640 --> 00:42:09.280 I'm actually doing a quick inventory, and you've all spoken. 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:12.080 Okay, there we have it. 00:42:12.080 --> 00:42:16.160 And we have to discuss this. 00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:24.160 I do want to follow up with, since I was the chairman of the Oak Gateway small area plan, 00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:30.480 I did want to follow up on the population, the density factor. 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:42.400 And that area covered by the Oak Gateway has 18% of the entire population of the city of Denton. 00:42:43.120 --> 00:42:51.760 The land area in the Oak Gateway is 2% of all of Denton, not including ETJ, but, you know, 00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:58.720 incorporated Denton, 2% of the land, 18% of the population. 00:42:58.720 --> 00:43:02.080 >> That's pretty dense. 00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:04.800 >> Pretty dense, exactly. 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.960 >> I still have a question. 00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:09.840 I hope you don't mind. 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:14.320 I know you had said earlier that you had done a study, and you were figuring out how many people 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:15.520 came and parked. 00:43:15.520 --> 00:43:21.440 Was that just on Hickory, or did you figure out parking for other places that are close to those? 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.600 Because I've gone to restaurants down there, and I don't park on Hickory. 00:43:25.600 --> 00:43:28.320 I'll park like a street or two over, and then I'll walk. 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:30.320 So was that just considered on Hickory? 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:32.640 >> We installed a camera. 00:43:32.640 --> 00:43:34.080 It was there for one week. 00:43:34.080 --> 00:43:35.680 It was running the whole time. 00:43:35.680 --> 00:43:42.480 It was just, so it was on the northwest corner of the Fry-Hickory intersection pointed westward. 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:49.280 As you can imagine, that's a lot of hours of footage. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:55.600 We had our consultant, they had an intern or something go through some of it, took a sample of it. 00:43:55.600 --> 00:43:58.000 So that is exclusively Hickory Street. 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.560 We don't have good data about parking behavior in that area. 00:44:02.560 --> 00:44:03.200 >> Okay, thank you. 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:11.360 >> You all want me to go first, don't you? 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:11.600 All right. 00:44:11.600 --> 00:44:12.320 >> I got a question. 00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:12.560 >> Yes. 00:44:12.560 --> 00:44:18.960 >> From number one or number two, what's the straightest shot? 00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:25.200 Because you've already spent a ton of money west of it coming down Hickory. 00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:30.080 What's the straightest shot going through that intersection option? 00:44:30.080 --> 00:44:32.080 >> I think it's option two. 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.440 >> The entire bike lane is on the south side for the rest of the segment. 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:44.640 >> And option two keeps parking on the north side adjacent to the businesses. 00:44:44.640 --> 00:44:50.240 >> Well, we already voted for that once already. 00:44:50.240 --> 00:44:56.640 Well, what happened with taking some land from UNT? 00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:05.680 >> Yeah, we are talking to them. 00:45:05.680 --> 00:45:11.920 We haven't really received a decision from that point, but we are looking at having some sort 00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:18.560 of sidewalk or access easement so that we can make, that is part of the option three 00:45:18.560 --> 00:45:23.200 that we're looking into so that we can have additional area that we can use 00:45:23.200 --> 00:45:24.800 for pedestrians and bicycles. 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.280 >> Do we know, I'm going to play devil's advocate. 00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:37.120 I know we even say in our own documents that we don't like option four. 00:45:37.120 --> 00:45:39.440 And your reasons, I hadn't thought about it, make total sense, 00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.960 especially when people are stopping and getting in spaces, it stops traffic. 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:44.160 But do we know what the traffic counts are? 00:45:44.160 --> 00:45:48.240 So I biked at 5 p.m., about five after 5 p.m. here today. 00:45:48.240 --> 00:45:53.520 I made sure to take the route we were discussing to get the experience 00:45:53.520 --> 00:45:55.600 and just look at it one more time before I came. 00:45:55.600 --> 00:45:57.920 And when I sat at that light, I hit the light, got right up to it, 00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.320 and sat at it the whole time, three cars. 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.760 It was me in three cars. 00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.880 So it just, and maybe it's just during certain hours of the day, 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:06.720 specific times when it builds up. 00:46:06.720 --> 00:46:08.800 How much traffic are we getting on that street? 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:12.640 Because it doesn't seem like the primary way a lot of people are getting to campus. 00:46:12.640 --> 00:46:17.520 But, so I'm just curious, like if we slowed down, if we just prioritized everything else 00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:22.400 and really slowed down traffic, would it have that amount of effect on the movement 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:23.280 of people throughout there? 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:28.080 And then the other side is, is there also other possibilities about maybe this is UNT 00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:31.280 Showcase Street and we want to slow people down as they come by campus. 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.280 I know that that exists at other college campuses where there's a street 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.040 you can kind of come by and you're not going. 00:46:37.040 --> 00:46:40.160 Because I also think how two lanes also is one of the major factors 00:46:40.160 --> 00:46:42.080 that makes it more dangerous for pedestrians. 00:46:42.080 --> 00:46:45.120 It's when people are trying to go around each other, when a car is, 00:46:45.120 --> 00:46:46.720 you can't see it as a pedestrian. 00:46:46.720 --> 00:46:49.360 And we already have admitted we know people are crossing those streets, 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:54.640 sometimes drunk, that maybe just for those blocks, 00:46:54.640 --> 00:46:57.600 maybe one lane isn't the worst option. 00:46:57.600 --> 00:46:58.880 Maybe it is, but. 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.520 So a couple things to address your concerns. 00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:04.400 Currently the speed limit in this segment is 20 miles an hour. 00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:08.720 So yes, we're trying to do everything to reduce the speeds. 00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:13.760 The traffic based on the study that we did for UNT, 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:18.960 it's around 9,000 vehicles a day on this particular stretch. 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.280 It's about 8,800 or something around that. 00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:26.560 And this acts as a couplet with Oak which sends traffic out. 00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:29.920 So these are two major arterials that we have here. 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:34.000 So it's maybe the time of the day that you were there, 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.400 but for the rest of the day, it's continuous flowing. 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:40.080 And the other feedback we did receive from the businesses 00:47:40.080 --> 00:47:42.880 when we had the public meeting, they did not like this option. 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:47.040 Just because the ease of getting in and out of the parking area 00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:50.880 and the congestion will divert people to a different location. 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.360 So they're not in favor of option four. 00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:59.440 And I will say too, the first part of that stretch from Avenue A 00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:04.400 all the way to, we'll say start stopping at Avenue A, 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.240 the traffic there all flows really slow. 00:48:06.240 --> 00:48:08.400 It doesn't really open up until you get past that, 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:09.680 like till you pass Crook and Cross. 00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:12.240 That's when it seems like cars then. 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:16.160 That's where more people are probably jaywalking and crossing and where you do. 00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:19.200 I think the other area is actually fine as it is with traffic. 00:48:19.200 --> 00:48:22.720 It's not, you can jump in on a bike pretty easily. 00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:27.040 I do think there's an artificial sense of calming 00:48:27.040 --> 00:48:29.920 because of the bad condition of the road currently. 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:33.280 It's in such bad shape, everyone slows down dramatically. 00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:38.800 And when this is rebuilt, it's smooth, I think behavior will change. 00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:39.840 Yeah, I think you're right. 00:48:43.520 --> 00:48:49.680 Well, also I was on P&Z when we passed the 2012 bike and pedestrian plan. 00:48:49.680 --> 00:48:56.960 My preference, my vote, I'll tell you now, as you probably know, 00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:01.840 is for option number two, removing parking on the south side. 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:09.200 I watched the bike plan being vetted in 2011 and 2012. 00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:12.880 And at that point, it obviously went through committees. 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:14.160 It went through P&Z. 00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:16.240 It went through public hearings. 00:49:16.240 --> 00:49:18.960 It was recommended by council. 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:24.640 So it was a long, long experience with a lot of stakeholders 00:49:24.640 --> 00:49:30.640 who in 2012 agreed that that was the bike plan, 00:49:30.640 --> 00:49:37.360 that we would be financing and that we would be building in this particular area. 00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.240 And the other part of me is a resident. 00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:43.520 This is my neighborhood, and I walk to work. 00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:46.720 I walk down Fry Street from my neighborhood. 00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:54.640 And the experience there is that yes, right now, parking on Hickory is being utilized 00:49:54.640 --> 00:50:00.240 and really always has been utilized by students going to the south side. 00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:05.840 You can walk into the coffee shop on Sunday. 00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:10.000 There may be no cars there on either side. 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.640 And there could be a line for people deep at the coffee shop. 00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:18.720 And obviously, those people on a Sunday morning have not driven there. 00:50:18.720 --> 00:50:21.760 I spoke about density. 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:27.200 And again, not only is this the most dense part of Denton, 00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:31.360 but in terms of household income, it's among the lowest. 00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:34.800 Obviously, we're factoring students in there. 00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:40.400 But it is in the lowest portion for family income. 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.640 I don't remember what I did with my numbers. 00:50:42.640 --> 00:50:51.520 But also, the average age in this area is something like 89% of the population 00:50:51.520 --> 00:50:53.520 is younger than 35. 00:50:53.520 --> 00:50:54.480 That would not be me. 00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:57.040 But I still ride my bike. 00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:06.000 So I think it is really, honestly, time to dedicate the south side of West Hickory 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:13.840 to the bike plan as we intended to do it almost seven years ago 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:19.200 and make that straight shot for the cyclists that we agreed upon. 00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:28.640 And just let the market dictate what's going to happen on Fry Street. 00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:34.560 But I'm telling you, from my office in the auditorium building, 00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:39.520 people are walking across the street to go to have lunch at Chipotle, 00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:43.040 to go have coffee, to pick up some art supplies. 00:51:43.040 --> 00:51:44.640 They're walking over there. 00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:50.320 Nobody is driving into this area to go and have a pizza 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:53.040 because there's a lot of options to drive to. 00:51:53.040 --> 00:51:57.040 And that's the plan that we promised seven years ago, 00:51:57.040 --> 00:52:01.200 which, as I said, is vetted, vetted, vetted before I got there. 00:52:01.200 --> 00:52:05.120 Patrice Caskey, why do you prefer option two over option one? 00:52:05.120 --> 00:52:10.480 Because of keeping the entire bike lane on the south side. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:16.800 A couple years ago, we were going through this a couple years ago, 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.280 and there we had the discussion of, 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:25.680 do we want to take off the parking on the north side versus the south side? 00:52:25.680 --> 00:52:28.560 And at that point two years ago, 00:52:28.560 --> 00:52:31.920 we agreed that the parking would be removed on the south side. 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:34.320 I guess I'm looking at it. 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:34.960 I'm misreading it. 00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:39.920 I thought the, oh, you're saying the parking change from the, okay. 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.680 Right, well, yeah, so, and, you know, if the bike lane is on the south side, 00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:46.320 then, you know, all the way down Hickory, 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.400 then, you know, starting up on Bonnie Bray south side, 00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.720 and then, oops, let's go over to the north side, 00:52:52.720 --> 00:52:54.560 and then back over to the south side. 00:52:54.560 --> 00:52:57.760 Oh, I thought the lane was in the same place. 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:00.080 It was just the difference where the cars are parked between one and two. 00:53:00.080 --> 00:53:00.800 It's supposed to. 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:01.520 Am I misunderstanding? 00:53:01.520 --> 00:53:02.880 There's a slight shift, though. 00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:08.240 Yeah, there's going to be a shift. 00:53:09.040 --> 00:53:10.080 So, there you go. 00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:12.480 Option one, bike lane is on the south side, 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.160 but it has the parking adjacent to it with that three-foot buffer. 00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:19.360 Let's see. 00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:22.880 Option two, it's still on the south side, 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.880 but the parking is now on the north side. 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:30.320 So, this option has an advantage that the parking is not next to the bike lane. 00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:31.120 Yeah. 00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:36.000 That's why the option two is more in line with the safety. 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.880 Because of the car doors? 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:39.520 The car doors. 00:53:39.520 --> 00:53:42.960 But it also creates a true protected bike lane, too, right? 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:46.000 I mean, now we have an actual physical barrier between it. 00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:53.360 You have a physical barrier of steel between those moving vehicles and the bicycles. 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:57.440 Three feet, to me, in this day and age, 00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:01.680 should be pretty darn good to keep the bicycles protected from doors opening, 00:54:01.680 --> 00:54:03.520 and that's on the passenger side as well, 00:54:03.520 --> 00:54:07.200 which doesn't get open nearly as much as being on the other side. 00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:08.880 Driver's side always gets opened. 00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:10.960 Three feet ought to be pretty good, 00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:15.920 and the cycles would have a six-foot dedicated space. 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:22.400 Can we put option two forward with the suggestion or recommendation 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:26.800 of the raised plastic things? 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.680 I don't know what they're called. 00:54:27.680 --> 00:54:29.920 Actually, here on the... 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.320 I didn't draw your attention to it earlier, but there are those... 00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:33.120 The lineators. 00:54:33.120 --> 00:54:34.560 The lineators, yeah. 00:54:34.560 --> 00:54:37.760 Did you also want the steel curving? 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.720 I think I would prefer that, yeah. 00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:44.160 I think any of that really creates more of a clear distinction to cars. 00:54:44.160 --> 00:54:47.040 I think it will add a bit of safety for cyclists. 00:54:47.040 --> 00:54:49.120 And I think getting this... 00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:50.080 I'll just say one last thing. 00:54:50.080 --> 00:54:52.080 I think getting the street right is so good because, again, 00:54:52.080 --> 00:54:54.640 what we're doing is we're in one of the most dense areas, 00:54:54.640 --> 00:54:58.880 really showing cyclists and people who could be cyclists, right, 00:54:58.880 --> 00:54:59.840 as Susie pointed out. 00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:03.280 We're working on an infrastructure, 00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.840 and so this can be... getting this area right, I think, is so important. 00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:07.840 So I appreciate the options put forward. 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:09.760 And I also agree. 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:12.080 I think option two seems like the one that makes the most sense. 00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:18.080 I also prefer option two. 00:55:18.080 --> 00:55:21.040 It's, to me, the safest for cyclists. 00:55:21.040 --> 00:55:24.400 Option three is crazy expensive. 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:25.760 Oh, I'm sorry, Jim. 00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:27.040 I don't have anything to say. 00:55:27.040 --> 00:55:29.600 I think option two... 00:55:29.600 --> 00:55:33.520 They put so much time and effort into the... with these bicycle people. 00:55:33.520 --> 00:55:37.120 Provide a quality product, you know? 00:55:37.120 --> 00:55:39.760 Keep it on the south side and let them go all the way down the road. 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:44.320 Do we need one more vote? 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:46.240 Oh, I'm for option two. 00:55:46.240 --> 00:55:52.160 I love option three if it could be multi-blocks. 00:55:52.160 --> 00:55:55.440 I like the idea of creating a big environment, 00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:59.760 extended environment that's predominantly focused on pedestrians 00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:01.360 and cyclists and stuff. 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:08.320 But I'm also looking at the cost between option three's quarter of a million dollars 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:10.560 for one block. 00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:12.480 Yeah, that's just planning level cost. 00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:16.640 We have not gotten into design and actual serving now. 00:56:16.640 --> 00:56:28.240 And, no, is the $83,000 figure just planning or is that...? 00:56:28.240 --> 00:56:33.680 So that actually would be folded into, since it's just striping, 00:56:33.680 --> 00:56:37.040 most of it will be folded into our streets project. 00:56:37.040 --> 00:56:41.040 Okay, so we're really not raising any... having to expand? 00:56:41.040 --> 00:56:44.320 It's not going to be that expensive of an option. 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.040 And that's the whole reason to bring this item forward, 00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:49.280 is now we're done with the gateway plan. 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:50.800 The street is almost getting done. 00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.720 So we need some direction into how do we move forward? 00:56:54.720 --> 00:57:00.800 And also, as a cyclist, having ridden that street several times, 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:06.400 if you go to option three or something, I'm likely to stay just on the street. 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:10.720 And I think a lot of cyclists will do the same thing, 00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:17.600 is I'm used to riding assertively in traffic, particularly in that area where it's a lower speed. 00:57:17.600 --> 00:57:19.680 Put me on Woodrow? 00:57:19.680 --> 00:57:20.640 No, I'm on the sidewalk. 00:57:20.640 --> 00:57:26.400 But part of it is the cost. 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.560 Part of it is, like Patrice has been saying, 00:57:30.560 --> 00:57:35.120 we've been pushing this bike plan since 2012. 00:57:35.120 --> 00:57:40.480 And a lot of our bicycle infrastructure in this town is disconnected. 00:57:41.200 --> 00:57:48.720 And we need to start connecting it and making it a viable transportation route. 00:57:48.720 --> 00:57:55.680 With all the cost savings on this option, 00:57:55.680 --> 00:58:00.720 maybe we could even paint that mean green bike lane right along that part of it. 00:58:00.720 --> 00:58:03.680 There you go. 00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:12.960 Does anybody want to make a motion for an option 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:18.800 that the Traffic Safety Commission would recommend to City Council? 00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:22.480 I'll make the motion that we approve option two. 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:23.280 I'll second that. 00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.220 Okay. 00:58:25.220 --> 00:58:28.480 All right, any discussion? 00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.280 All right, we take a vote. 00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:38.160 Everyone in favor of recommending option two to City Council, say aye. 00:58:38.560 --> 00:58:39.060 Aye. 00:58:39.060 --> 00:58:39.840 Aye. 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:40.340 Opposed? 00:58:40.340 --> 00:58:43.280 That's unanimous. 00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:45.360 Okay, thank you. 00:58:45.360 --> 00:59:01.280 That brings us to item 1C, which is TSC 19-010, which is to receive a report, 00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:07.200 hold a discussion, and make recommendation to City Council for restricting on-street parking 00:59:07.200 --> 00:59:11.920 along the north side of Underwood Street between Avenue B and McCormick Street. 00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:13.140 Pretend. 00:59:13.140 --> 00:59:22.640 Hi, this is in the same area that we started, and knowing that parking is a real concern, 00:59:22.640 --> 00:59:31.760 we're also talking about two things, the width of the street in this particular area. 00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:38.400 This is the segment of Underwood between McCormick and Avenue B that we're focusing on. 00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:42.800 There are a couple things that happened recently when TechStop moved in. 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:49.520 This connection of Underwood that used to connect to the Furniture Road was removed. 00:59:49.520 --> 00:59:52.000 So as you can see, this is a dead-end area. 00:59:52.000 --> 01:00:01.760 This portion between Avenue B and the dead end is already no parking in this particular area. 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:08.080 Currently, the street is 26 feet wide, which means if cars are parked on both sides, 01:00:08.080 --> 01:00:13.680 it does not have the required fire lane 20 feet on either side. 01:00:13.680 --> 01:00:20.400 So it becomes an extremely narrow segment for any emergency vehicles to pass through. 01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:30.080 The way the fire code is written, typically, if it is they require a 20-foot clear segment, 01:00:30.080 --> 01:00:32.720 and then they allocate 6 feet parking. 01:00:32.720 --> 01:00:35.520 So if there is a street segment that's 26 feet wide, 01:00:35.520 --> 01:00:39.360 typically parking should be restricted at a minimum on one side. 01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:45.840 If the street is 32 or more feet wide, then you can allow parking on both sides. 01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:52.720 This is a perfect space that does not provide for access. 01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:56.880 The other thing that's happening is this fire station is currently 01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:02.160 being remodeled, meaning they're reconstructing accesses. 01:01:02.160 --> 01:01:04.240 They're providing access on Underwood. 01:01:04.240 --> 01:01:08.000 Some of this configuration here is changing. 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:10.160 McCormick will not go through. 01:01:10.160 --> 01:01:11.120 It'll be shut down. 01:01:11.120 --> 01:01:14.480 So this area is taken over by the fire station. 01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:19.600 Fire trucks will be in and out of this area, meaning they'll use some of this 01:01:19.600 --> 01:01:24.400 to connect north, and they'll have access to this area. 01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:31.520 So part of the fire station being remodeled, as well as a concern from 01:01:31.520 --> 01:01:37.680 this particular resident/citizen that has business here. 01:01:37.680 --> 01:01:40.160 And Mr. Noll can talk to that. 01:01:40.160 --> 01:01:41.680 I think he has a card signed up. 01:01:41.680 --> 01:01:50.240 But we are bringing this item forward just for those two reasons, emergency access as well as 01:01:50.240 --> 01:01:57.520 safety concerns and even concerns from this business that their access getting through 01:01:57.520 --> 01:02:04.480 in between this area is so restricted, now it doesn't connect to the furniture road. 01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.920 And there's only one way in and out for this particular parking lot, 01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:09.440 because they have shut down access. 01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:12.880 It used to be used for a cut through between the parking lot. 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.520 So they've shut this down. 01:02:15.520 --> 01:02:18.880 So to access this part, there's only one way in and out. 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:20.240 So there are two things happening. 01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:23.280 The emergency vehicle access as well as access to the business 01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:27.360 is getting blocked because of parking on either side. 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:38.560 And also, I believe Mr. Noll has been trying to gather support from all these residents. 01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:41.520 He was successful a couple years ago to get signed letters. 01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:44.160 He still has a couple of them already signed. 01:02:44.160 --> 01:02:46.720 They have same concerns, safety concerns, getting in and out. 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.040 Can't really see around the corner. 01:02:49.040 --> 01:02:50.160 It's hard to back out. 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:54.880 So for all these different reasons, staff is recommending that we restrict parking on 01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:56.160 the north side. 01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:58.480 There are several driveways in between. 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:05.920 And then just given that the spacing and the fire or the emergency vehicle access, 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:12.400 which do not exist in this area, staff is recommending that we restrict parking on the north side. 01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:14.640 Any questions? 01:03:16.240 --> 01:03:17.600 What's the width of Avenue B? 01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:22.480 I think Avenue B, I don't know. 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:30.320 It seems to be a slightly wider street, but people are not parking on the curb. 01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:34.080 So if you can see, I think they're parking in the grass area. 01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:38.880 They're parking outside of the curb area. 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:46.160 So the actual curb to curb is probably within the same 26 feet, around the same size. 01:03:46.160 --> 01:03:53.440 But since they have extra space here, the actual width for people to go through exists for a-- 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:59.280 But at this time, I think we're just focusing on underwood. 01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:04.400 It's just for comparison. 01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:08.240 Yes, all these streets are really narrow. 01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:10.480 I think Margie is the same way. 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:11.600 Fannin is the same way. 01:04:11.600 --> 01:04:12.880 They're narrow streets. 01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:20.800 I believe long-term, we have to think of what our plan is for this area, especially given the 01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:28.000 narrow streets and think about long-term solution as to do we start restricting parking on one side 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:40.960 or what do we do as far as parking, especially during the daytime when the university is functional. 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:43.040 Do we restrict it in the daytime? 01:04:43.040 --> 01:04:46.320 We don't have a big picture solution at this point. 01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:52.480 But given that this fire station is going in, I think this area becomes a key concern on underwood. 01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:54.960 Yes? 01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:58.320 They have to have it because the fire trucks have to make the turn. 01:04:58.320 --> 01:04:58.820 Correct. 01:04:58.820 --> 01:05:03.520 Yes, the fire trucks have to make a turn. 01:05:03.520 --> 01:05:10.000 So what we're started working on is at the intersections, we're trying to enforce it better 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:14.720 and clear it up at the intersection at a minimum so that the fire trucks can turn. 01:05:14.720 --> 01:05:22.320 But in between the intersections, if there is little space and they don't really have to deploy 01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:27.680 their equipment, then they can, you know, live by or pass by those narrow areas. 01:05:27.680 --> 01:05:32.000 Any questions? 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:36.960 Can you clarify for me the entrance to the business on the corner over here? 01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:37.600 Yes. 01:05:37.600 --> 01:05:41.440 I couldn't exactly tell where you were saying they're entering that parking lot from. 01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:44.880 So there is-- this parking area was connected. 01:05:46.240 --> 01:05:53.840 So what is happening is-- if you go there, I don't think I would be able to-- there we go. 01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:59.920 So this-- right now, they're blocking it off with the-- with this car part. 01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:06.640 But what was happening is people would enter this drive aisle and drive around to connect to-- 01:06:06.640 --> 01:06:11.200 I believe it's Collier Street. 01:06:12.160 --> 01:06:16.800 So what they're doing is coming up here and they see, oh, it's-- does not get to 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:22.480 the furniture road, then they use the parking area to get to Collier and then to the furniture road. 01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:28.240 So that's-- that was happening and that's why they had to put a car there or shut it down. 01:06:28.240 --> 01:06:32.800 Specifically, where's the entrance into that parking lot? 01:06:32.800 --> 01:06:33.280 This one? 01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:36.480 I think you can see it once you get down here. 01:06:38.720 --> 01:06:43.440 That's-- that's the entrance right here and then you see these are parking spaces. 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:45.760 And what are they planning on doing with the rest of the street? 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:48.000 On Underwood? 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:49.600 Mm-hmm. Or on this street here? 01:06:49.600 --> 01:06:51.280 This area? 01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:52.320 Going towards 35. 01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:57.840 I do not know what this corner piece is at this time of the week. 01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:01.440 Underwood does not go to the service road anymore, right? 01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:01.760 So-- 01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:02.560 No, it does not. 01:07:02.560 --> 01:07:03.040 So it'll be-- 01:07:03.040 --> 01:07:04.880 Closed off. So are they just going to leave it? 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:10.640 Just, I mean, can-- I'm asking because if it's pretty simple to remove the north side of the 01:07:10.640 --> 01:07:14.880 parking on Underwood, it might be potential to put some parking down there if they're 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:17.120 not doing anything with it. I mean-- 01:07:17.120 --> 01:07:23.920 Yeah, I don't-- I'm not sure if the city owns-- if it's not owned by the city, it's not public parking, 01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:29.520 which means we don't know if a private developer or whoever owns the land is willing to do that, so. 01:07:29.520 --> 01:07:30.020 Okay. 01:07:30.020 --> 01:07:31.140 Thanks. 01:07:35.520 --> 01:07:41.360 Okay. Any other questions? I think Mr. Noll's here if you-- 01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:42.560 Yes, should we hear from Mr. Noll? 01:07:42.560 --> 01:07:47.760 Okay. If you would, please, go to the podium, state your name and your address. 01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:54.160 Oh, I need you to-- they make me tell you to speak into the mic. Yeah. 01:07:54.160 --> 01:07:54.800 Talk into the mic. 01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:58.480 Ken Noll, 26 Royal Oaks, Denton, Texas. 01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:00.560 And I'm with pre-tem. 01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:03.680 I'm for everything he's for. 01:08:03.680 --> 01:08:06.240 If any of you had some of those other questions, I might be able to re-answer. 01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:10.160 I've been working on this for almost two years, and I want to really thank this individual right 01:08:10.160 --> 01:08:15.680 here for taking the time to talk to me. Okay. But anyway, the key problem is-- 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:19.920 How do you-- oh, you're looking at it here. 01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:27.200 Is just the safety, and I'm a chiropractor. I have a lot of senior patients. It was ideal, 01:08:27.200 --> 01:08:30.960 of course, when Underwood Street was open, they could just come around the corner and pull in. 01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:36.240 When TechStat did it, they looked at several different-- they talked about putting the 01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:41.680 entrance over there off of Avenue B. They talked about opening this back up, but then we checked 01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:46.640 with the city, and there was quite a few accidents with people cutting through, hitting parked cars, 01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:51.600 hitting each other, and so on, back over to Collier, and they asked us to close that off. 01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:56.640 So it's been that way since, and so they decided just to leave the entrance where it is. 01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:02.640 This piece of street here is the part that goes into, so they can get in the parking lot. 01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:06.480 Avenue B is just as severe as Underwood. I don't know, Preetem, do you have any-- 01:09:06.480 --> 01:09:09.680 is anybody-- can we hook this up anyway to the-- 01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:13.840 I doubt we can. We don't have the wires now. 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:18.240 Yeah, we have an interesting video you might find humorous of an individual walking past, 01:09:18.240 --> 01:09:22.720 and we were videotaping the other day the congestion and the cars there on the street. 01:09:23.440 --> 01:09:30.000 But the key thing again, of course, and also too from the fire station, they told me unanimously 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.560 they were having a meeting there when I stopped by there again a few days ago, that they would 01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:39.680 gladly send a letter too, that they would really appreciate if that could be taken care of with the 01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:44.160 parking. Of course, we would have liked to have seen it, no parking on both sides of the street, 01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:49.360 but I understand that's not possible, and Preetem pointed out to me the reasons it would be best to 01:09:49.360 --> 01:09:54.080 have the north side, which is-- and they do park around the corner here, they park around the corner 01:09:54.080 --> 01:10:02.800 where the stop sign is there, and Avenue B is just as severe when the parking is even with the dirt 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:08.560 on the side where they mostly park. And I walk this at least twice a week, maybe three times a week, 01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:12.400 pick up trash and so on, try and keep it as decent as I can coming in there, because 01:10:13.040 --> 01:10:19.600 like he presented or explained, it is pretty much the main entrance now into my business rather than 01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:27.520 where it used to be over here. Quite a few Medicare patients, and quite honestly we lost a lot of them, 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:31.200 and they just say, "Hey doc, we love you and been coming for 20 years or whatever, but 01:10:31.200 --> 01:10:37.200 we just can't drive up down this street. People have lost me." I've had a couple hit someone's car, 01:10:37.200 --> 01:10:41.920 and so of course they're, you know, they don't want to come back. I do have letters here that 01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:47.040 glad for you to see from these two properties. I had them from the whole block here before, 01:10:47.040 --> 01:10:52.240 including the fire station, but I haven't been able to get ahold of the owner of this piece yet. 01:10:52.240 --> 01:10:58.080 These two live there. There's a husband, wife here, and a woman that's in and out quite a bit, 01:10:58.080 --> 01:11:02.800 but I do have letters of support for it and their frustration with it also trying to get in and out 01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:09.760 and things like this. But it's mainly-- and it starts at about 6 30. We open at 7, so I'm there 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:16.800 at a quarter till 7, and it starts about 6 30 with the parking along there. It's the construction 01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:22.880 workers on that new building on Eagle Drive, and then as the students come they of course fill it in, 01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:30.640 and there's nothing left, and the police come through every, you know, a couple three times 01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:36.720 a month maybe and give tickets and things like that, so then that'll deter it for a while. 01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:42.160 Of course we have to-- we actually have a tow company. We have signs there, 01:11:42.160 --> 01:11:45.360 which we also have that problem. They just come and park in our parking lot. 01:11:45.360 --> 01:11:51.760 Any other questions? I perked anything that can be answered or am I done? 01:11:51.760 --> 01:11:58.480 I appreciate you considering it very much. I've been through the whole process and got the 01:11:58.480 --> 01:12:04.480 letters and so on and so on, took them, but Preetem's got me the farthest so far, so I like him a lot. 01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:13.520 We like him, too. Anybody? We like him, too. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:18.320 Thank you. As for biking, which was a big topic tonight, of course I'll be honest. I don't see a 01:12:18.320 --> 01:12:26.000 lot of bikes that go down that street. That's a hard one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much, 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:32.800 all of you, for your time. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any discussion? Where are we falling on this? 01:12:35.120 --> 01:12:38.720 It seems kind of bad to me. I mean, it's about safety. It's about getting the fire trucks through 01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:43.440 there. And I think we're going to come back and revisit all these other streets. 01:12:43.440 --> 01:12:55.120 I'll make a motion. Okay. Make a motion to accept the recommendation. Second. Okay. We have a motion 01:12:55.120 --> 01:13:01.280 to accept the recommendation. We have a second. Everyone in favor say aye. Aye. Everyone opposed? 01:13:02.240 --> 01:13:07.840 All right. There we have it. Your parking is gone. Okay. Thank you. Yes. 01:13:07.840 --> 01:13:28.800 Thank you. And that brings us to agenda item 1D, TSC 19-011, which is to receive a report, 01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:34.320 hold a discussion, and make a recommendation to City Council for establishing a speed limit 01:13:34.320 --> 01:14:00.640 along US 377 from FM 1830 to I-35E. So 377 is that section of Fort Worth Drive. 01:14:01.600 --> 01:14:09.440 We're going to talk about this portion from 35E all the way down to where the construction 01:14:09.440 --> 01:14:19.200 limits are. I think it ends at James Street in 1830 coming in. So currently this segment of 377 01:14:19.200 --> 01:14:28.000 between 35 and 1830 is under construction. They began construction early this year, 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:35.520 I think first week of January is when they kicked it out. Currently they're working on the utilities 01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:40.960 that are outside the right-of-way so there are no impacts to the lanes, but they will be soon 01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:49.760 start working closer to the lane, closer to the traffic. Currently the speed limit south of, 01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:57.280 I want to say south of this particular point right after 35E, it gets to a point where it becomes 50 01:14:57.280 --> 01:15:04.400 and 55 miles an hour as you go south. What was requested, text out requested, that they will be, 01:15:04.400 --> 01:15:12.560 it is under construction, they will be working really close to the lanes and the vehicles that 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:18.960 will be traveling, and secondly they are thinking of putting in construction barriers that are not 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:25.280 the high barriers that you see on the freeways, but a lower version of it. I'm not sure if you've 01:15:25.280 --> 01:15:33.600 noticed them, they were on 2181 south of Geyer when they used it in that particular area. So 01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:38.560 they're trying to use lower type of barrier, they wanted to find out what's the best way to 01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:45.360 make it safer for everyone, and they requested that the city during construction for the next 01:15:45.360 --> 01:15:53.040 two years lower the speed limit to 45 miles an hour, which then provides them an option to 01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:58.320 work closer to the vehicles, but have the smaller lower barriers so that 01:15:58.320 --> 01:16:03.760 cars are not traveling that fast. If cars are traveling over 45 miles they can't really install 01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:08.240 that for safety, they have to install the bigger ones. So that was a request that was made. 01:16:08.240 --> 01:16:17.200 Typically once a road is widened and completed as in the case of 2499, they go back and do a 01:16:17.200 --> 01:16:22.160 speed study again. They're going to do that after the construction is completed for this segment of 01:16:22.160 --> 01:16:28.960 377, and once that happens they'll come back and we'll come back here in front of the committee to 01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:35.040 change the speed limit, but for now we just want to make sure that we're safe and especially in 01:16:35.040 --> 01:16:42.160 the construction zone where there are too many things going on, distractions as well as workers 01:16:42.160 --> 01:16:49.920 too close to these vehicles. We as staff feel and recommend that the speed limit should be 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:56.400 lowered to 45 miles an hour. That's the recommendation. Let me know if you have any questions. 01:16:56.400 --> 01:17:07.440 It does pick up speed when people go past the railroad track, it does start picking up the 01:17:07.440 --> 01:17:14.960 speed. So past 1830 where it connects it'll still remain the same speed limit because it won't be 01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:19.760 under the construction area. Right about here is where the construction starts. I think it starts 01:17:19.760 --> 01:17:27.280 just a few hundred feet south of the country globe road connection and it's going to be widened to a 01:17:27.280 --> 01:17:35.840 six lane facility. You said it was 50 or 55 currently? Currently it's 50 at one segment and 01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:42.800 then 55 the next. I think it's when you go closer to 1830 it gets to a 55 I think. 01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:56.960 Did you say six lanes? Yeah. Three in each direction? No total, three lanes each direction. 01:17:56.960 --> 01:18:03.280 Yeah this is a bigger segment. 01:18:03.280 --> 01:18:13.040 I already have trouble like if I'm on if I go to the stuff on one side sometimes it's hard for me 01:18:13.040 --> 01:18:20.240 to get back over. So you know I think people go go pretty fast over there. Yeah I think some of 01:18:20.240 --> 01:18:29.040 these streets that come into the town like 2181, 377, 2499 they're all getting upgraded at the same 01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:39.280 time. So these are all large FM roads, state highways. I imagine my surprise that you're 01:18:39.280 --> 01:18:46.400 thinking about lowering a speed limit. It is currently a two lane so I do want to point out 01:18:46.400 --> 01:18:51.280 it has it does have wider shoulders but people use it for the wrong reasons. They 01:18:51.280 --> 01:18:58.000 swerve around to just pass people which shouldn't be and that those wide wider shoulders are going 01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:02.320 to be taken out as part of the construction. That's where the barriers will be placed 01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:10.320 so there wouldn't be enough room to swerve around. Any questions? 01:19:10.320 --> 01:19:18.080 Okay. Anybody have a recommendation? 01:19:18.080 --> 01:19:31.760 I recommend we go with a recommendation. Okay we have a motion and a second to accept staff's 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:41.120 recommendation to lower speed limits in this area. Everyone in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay perfect. 01:19:41.120 --> 01:19:51.680 And that brings us to item 1E TSC 19-012 which is to hold a report, receive a report, hold a 01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:56.560 discussion and make a recommendation to City Council for establishing a speed limit along 01:19:56.560 --> 01:20:06.320 Cowling Road from Rector Road to Deer Run Drive. So I'm trying to see if I can find the city 01:20:06.320 --> 01:20:16.000 limits for this particular one. This is the street I'm talking about it is Cowling Road starting at 01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:23.840 Rector and there is a small portion that's within the city limits. Let's see where Deer Run is. 01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:29.280 Okay right there. So 01:20:29.280 --> 01:20:38.720 from Deer Run all the way to Rector this is the only piece of Cowling Road within the city. 01:20:38.720 --> 01:20:48.640 North and south of it is county areas and if you see it's a fairly rural road that then connects 01:20:48.640 --> 01:20:53.840 and connects to Fifth Street and in this particular in the Sanger area but if you 01:20:53.840 --> 01:21:02.160 go south it's fairly rural. There is not access points or any driveways or anything going to any 01:21:02.160 --> 01:21:08.160 of these lands until you get really close on this side and once you go north I think the current 01:21:08.160 --> 01:21:14.800 speed limit is 40 miles an hour within the county area. South of Rector it's the same it's 40 miles 01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:22.080 an hour. Since there is no posted speed limit within our city limits currently it is considered 01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:29.840 as a prima facie which means 30 miles an hour which is not posted so when you don't post 01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:34.160 speed limits it's typically considered 30 miles an hour and that's what we're enforcing. 01:21:34.160 --> 01:21:44.800 So what is happening is it's not city PD it's more of the county and DPD enforcing some of 01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:50.560 these rural sections and the way they enforce it since there's nothing posted in the city limits 01:21:50.560 --> 01:21:57.040 then they hold you to 30 miles an hour so we've been receiving many complaints from residents 01:21:57.040 --> 01:22:03.440 that use this on a daily basis that this segment is 40 they travel 40 all of a sudden there is no 01:22:03.440 --> 01:22:10.800 warning and you enter the city limits and then you once you leave it's back to 40 miles an hour so 01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:17.920 we're trying to you know straighten out some inconsistency make it consistent 01:22:19.120 --> 01:22:25.040 not create speed traps for citizens so on this one we're trying to we're recommending to increase 01:22:25.040 --> 01:22:30.480 the speed limit to 40 miles an hour so you're going to take some revenue away 01:22:30.480 --> 01:22:40.000 it's mostly county but yes that's tricksy yeah it is very tricky 01:22:42.080 --> 01:22:49.920 that's the only situation in the city is that the only situation like this uh that we know of yes 01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:57.200 because there there are so many streets that go weave in and out especially on the fringe that 01:22:57.200 --> 01:23:04.080 we're not really clear does it lie in the city it's outside the city it's in the etj who is 01:23:04.080 --> 01:23:12.720 really controlling it so um we are going to embark on a full speed survey study for uh majority of 01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:18.720 our major streets and highways and arterials throughout the city and as part of that we'll 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:25.680 clean up any fringe streets that we have as part of that study it doesn't look like there's anything 01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:33.280 to run into is there it looks like it's just like farmland or it it is i mean it's there's not any 01:23:33.280 --> 01:23:40.000 streams even google doesn't go in there it's not like if somebody could like veer off and 01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:46.880 fall into anything no it's pretty straightforward so right after this point it turned into 30 mile an 01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:59.360 hour yeah there's nothing and the width of the lane is consistent yes so the width is consistent 01:23:59.360 --> 01:24:08.480 this pavement is consistent throughout it's a fairly rural section of the roadway so 01:24:08.480 --> 01:24:21.040 it would be fun to see the map with the city limits and the etj yeah let me see if i can pull 01:24:21.040 --> 01:24:30.880 that up 01:24:51.360 --> 01:24:56.880 so 01:24:56.880 --> 01:25:14.880 this is sanger etj 01:25:21.120 --> 01:25:26.480 okay let's etj oh extra territorial jurisdiction 01:25:26.480 --> 01:25:34.880 yeah i don't almost it doesn't on this map it doesn't even show the street it's old 01:25:45.120 --> 01:25:53.120 yeah it's not 01:25:53.120 --> 01:26:07.120 this one 01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:19.120 off the button 01:26:19.120 --> 01:26:31.120 no i don't think this map really tells you 01:26:31.120 --> 01:26:36.640 okay so it does give a little to the south at least 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:45.680 is there a bridge over water over there is there a creek over there 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:50.560 there is a creek i think is it a one lane bridge or is it a two lane bridge it's a two lane bridge 01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:50.560 okay 01:26:50.560 --> 01:27:03.520 well that was a request mainly for my own amusements though so it would have worked friday 01:27:07.440 --> 01:27:16.880 oh wow so i think so i think we're really talking about this piece that's 01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:22.160 i think we're really talking about this piece that goes through the city 01:27:22.160 --> 01:27:30.080 okay that's really close to the freeway but this is the cowling road that comes in 01:27:30.080 --> 01:27:33.760 and there's a really small section that goes through the city it's not the whole segment but 01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:42.640 that's where people are getting clipped i didn't i wouldn't say that yeah so this is an area where 01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:45.280 the city got it it's within city limits 01:27:45.280 --> 01:27:52.880 so county is enforcing it more dpd enforces more than we do 01:27:59.120 --> 01:28:06.560 well i'd say let's uh i make a motion that we have one less speed trap second 01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:15.120 okay we have a motion we have a second to increase that the speed limit and that stretch 01:28:15.120 --> 01:28:21.120 to be consistent with the stretch to the north and to the south everyone in favor aye 01:28:21.120 --> 01:28:28.880 aye and opposed that is nobody excellent moving forward okay that brings us to item 1f 01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:40.560 tsc 19-013 which is our matrix all right so we are trying to knock some of these out um 01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:50.960 more so on the i think the hickory street i'll i'll just quickly go over this i think 01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:57.360 i had said seven o'clock when the roofers can start back so it might start soon but 01:28:58.240 --> 01:29:04.720 quickly going to that hickory uh the wheelchair app we're looking into that um as part of our 01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:12.320 hickory street project so um there there is a driveway that is next to it we might have 01:29:12.320 --> 01:29:18.000 to look it into making it ad compliant for the cross slope so that's something that's 01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:25.280 looked into we don't have a design or we don't have any current funding but we're we're definitely 01:29:25.280 --> 01:29:30.080 it'll be part of our hickory street project station motors that's a little bit more tricky 01:29:30.080 --> 01:29:39.760 i think that whole area is um text dot but good news is text dot has a project up and down 01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:45.760 locust i think they're going to start with locust and then move to elm that they're going to fix 01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:52.160 sidewalks all up and down um elm and locust but the first one is locust and they're going to make 01:29:52.160 --> 01:29:58.960 it ad compliant they're going to have ramps at every crossing that goes parallel to the street 01:29:58.960 --> 01:30:04.800 and they're going to make sure that all their sidewalks are ad compliant meaning there are no 01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:12.640 cross slope issues or no cracking falling and that big project we just recently had a meeting with 01:30:12.640 --> 01:30:21.200 text dot they are working on the design planning design level but i think they intend to spend the 01:30:21.200 --> 01:30:29.120 funds this year to get the street sidewalks completed yeah it was we weren't expecting that 01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:34.400 but that's a good very good thing two quick questions on that do we know aren't we getting 01:30:34.400 --> 01:30:39.840 the troll that back at some point is that in the long term that is a yes the locust and elm term 01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:47.600 back um that is not a whole lot long term but it's about two three years out because if we need to 01:30:47.600 --> 01:30:54.560 get our utilities designed and constructed text dot needs to repave uh the entire segment we're 01:30:54.560 --> 01:31:00.960 talking from eagle all the way to university and that's not going to happen in the next year so 01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:06.640 it's probably going to take a good two years to get there and after that once it's completely 01:31:06.640 --> 01:31:11.520 reconstructed then we can take over the ownership so then my only other question there is have we 01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:16.160 been able to have any um feedback give them any feedback on for example what the sidewalks look 01:31:16.160 --> 01:31:21.440 like like for me for example it'd be great like if there's a buffer with like you know trees or 01:31:21.440 --> 01:31:26.720 something between the sidewalk and that road is there any discussion around that there is a 01:31:26.720 --> 01:31:34.400 schematic level i can find the maps for you but um we don't have the plans it's text on consultant 01:31:34.400 --> 01:31:41.520 and text art is running that project so we can definitely request maps and we can bring it forward 01:31:42.560 --> 01:31:49.200 yeah it'll be yeah they're they're trying to see within their existing right of way really old 01:31:49.200 --> 01:31:54.240 area some of them they don't even know if they have right of way so they they're trying to fit 01:31:54.240 --> 01:32:01.040 in uh a sidewalk that is consistent and goes across but there might be some places that they'll 01:32:01.040 --> 01:32:06.640 have to really work with the property owners to make it 88 compliant but definitely i guess long 01:32:06.640 --> 01:32:10.000 term the bigger reason i ask that is we wouldn't want them to do something we don't like and then 01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:21.600 have to redo it ourselves and take yes so agreed um so we talked about the bike lanes on hickory at 01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:32.880 length today all right and then yes this uh pd uh reports or collision we are asking the questions 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:39.840 and we started meeting pd regularly um it is a lot of data to mine as far as understanding 01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:47.760 okay um how many involved pedestrians and what can we do um what type of accidents so we're 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:54.720 currently uh sort of short staff to do the data mining that is really needed to get these reports 01:32:54.720 --> 01:33:02.160 to a point where you know it's more um presentable digestible in form of numbers and quick figures 01:33:02.160 --> 01:33:08.000 and simple area maps that show you these are the top locations and these are the number one issues 01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:14.000 and this is how we can fix it um that's why it's taking a little bit longer but we intend to bring 01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:20.880 this back in april with the report that has at least a year full of collision data the top 10 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:27.440 locations and what are the issues what can we do what can we look into yeah it just seems to me 01:33:27.440 --> 01:33:34.960 that we should be able to do something because we have a crime map yes i can go and see what was 01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:40.560 happening on my street or something you know and i think we should be able to have at least that 01:33:40.560 --> 01:33:47.600 type of viewpoint yes and i i do agree to that end we also started working with gis to put some gis 01:33:47.600 --> 01:33:53.760 maps together for the same reason where we want to put out more traffic information as far as 01:33:53.760 --> 01:34:00.080 traffic counts our signal location pedestrian crossings all the information related information 01:34:00.080 --> 01:34:06.480 needs to be interactive where people can see it we're slowly getting there we were one person 01:34:06.480 --> 01:34:14.080 department now we have some more people still we're making an effort to create some of these 01:34:14.080 --> 01:34:22.400 smaller item as projects and get them done in the next month few months uh 01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:31.440 yes new street is something that we will be bringing back uh next month i think uh there were 01:34:31.440 --> 01:34:39.760 the item was presented to the tiff board there were some um concepts that they wanted to look 01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:45.680 further they wanted to look at other alternatives so uh our project manager is currently working 01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:50.880 with consultant to create more alternatives and look into the options but we'll bring that item 01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:58.240 also um next month right and there was also an online survey right correct we did has that closed 01:34:58.240 --> 01:35:06.160 yet it was closed yes it was for a week or week and a half i think it was closed yes 01:35:06.160 --> 01:35:16.640 and then yes we're looking for design and funding for this uh ad ramp on elm across the state it 01:35:16.640 --> 01:35:24.560 might be part of the um textile project once they go in since it's textile right away 01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:35.680 any other more items yes sir you dropped me from the list oh we didn't want to do that i'm hurt 01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:40.880 where's my white stripe on welsh an eagle 01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:50.240 that needs to be here and let's get that on um sorry about that 01:35:50.240 --> 01:36:00.560 i won't put that 01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:10.480 okay does anybody else have anything to add to the matrix i had if i could go back one to the 01:36:10.480 --> 01:36:16.080 locust so how far down does that go does that go all the way up to the loop are they looking to add 01:36:16.080 --> 01:36:22.400 sidewalks all the way out like i forgot what so the limits are between eagle and university drive 380 01:36:22.400 --> 01:36:30.640 okay okay all right those are the limits and those limits that they intend to turn back 01:36:30.640 --> 01:36:38.480 at a sooner rather than later so in the next three years they'll be turning it back but 01:36:38.480 --> 01:36:46.640 text dot has shown has wanted us to take over all the way to where it goes to 35 in the north side 01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:54.720 so us 77 all the way to curbs and goes north they have asked us to see if the city can take that 01:36:54.720 --> 01:37:01.200 portion as well and the portion of dallas drive on the south all the way to 35e do we want those 01:37:01.200 --> 01:37:07.680 parts we're we're thinking about it what are the pros and cons and what condition is it in 01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:13.520 and how do we want to long term because what has happened that that used to be the primary highway 01:37:13.520 --> 01:37:18.720 that went through the city and now it's no longer a highway it's more of a city street that goes 01:37:18.720 --> 01:37:26.080 through our downtown area so we're better off having it that's we're looking into the added 01:37:26.080 --> 01:37:31.440 sections but right now we're pretty sure that between eagle and university drive that's the 01:37:31.440 --> 01:37:37.200 portion that will be coming back to us good to know i just live on that side of town and i know 01:37:37.200 --> 01:37:46.320 that there's sometimes people outside north branch library um there's if you go far enough down 01:37:46.320 --> 01:37:54.000 there's not sidewalks so i've seen people walk along the highway before that stretch so i was 01:37:54.000 --> 01:37:59.360 curious how far it went just in case if they were going to put in oh that would be nice okay so i'm 01:37:59.360 --> 01:38:06.800 asking do you have one item i'm not sure this isn't this may not be a matrix item this may be 01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:11.360 something else but i was wondering if it was possible to get a report on these two sections 01:38:11.360 --> 01:38:16.400 i brought them up the last couple i think meetings and i've been kind of in continual 01:38:16.400 --> 01:38:23.040 conversations with citizens including suzy over here and keely briggs and jord hudspeth about 01:38:23.040 --> 01:38:28.480 what we can do in the the two areas i'm concerned about are carol between mulberry and oak and bell 01:38:28.480 --> 01:38:34.160 between mulberry and mckinney essentially i see those as turning into increasingly urban areas 01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:40.240 you know changes in the amount of housing is creating uh you know more walkers and cyclists 01:38:40.240 --> 01:38:48.080 sorry carol between mulberry and oak and these are just my the areas i from being in you know 01:38:48.080 --> 01:38:53.680 um pedestrian and cyclists in that area the areas that i i think require but i could be it could be 01:38:53.680 --> 01:38:58.080 more than that or less those would be good discussions and then bell between mulberry and 01:38:58.080 --> 01:39:03.520 mckinney okay so i see those areas as urbanizing in different ways and so an example would be 01:39:03.520 --> 01:39:09.600 armadillo opening um which is the coffee shop in the morning and the and the place and you know my 01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:14.640 we live in h squared where pizza snob is and my wife walked out mulberry the other day and we just 01:39:14.640 --> 01:39:18.560 right when she got there she's like i felt like my life was in danger the entire walk and we're 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:23.040 talking like four blocks now i know some of that is already being addressed a little bit potentially 01:39:23.040 --> 01:39:28.400 with the muse plan and so part of that will hopefully get done but um bell's scary you know 01:39:28.400 --> 01:39:33.200 and if you come off mulberry like you can walk to those intersections but most people don't do it 01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:37.040 just because they're out of the way and those intersections don't feel safe either so like i 01:39:37.040 --> 01:39:40.800 think there's a if they like felt like they were really great intersections i think people would 01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:44.880 consider but a lot of people are just crossing in those cars if you go go stand there sometime 01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:49.360 right if you stand at armadillo they come flying around the corner and you see them and it's not 01:39:49.360 --> 01:39:54.720 so i think there's just potential there and then i've brought up the stuff on carol so my my request 01:39:54.720 --> 01:39:59.040 is is would it be possible for us to put together some kind of report about what kind of options we 01:39:59.040 --> 01:40:07.040 have on arterials for making them safer and just so we can look at options and start considering them 01:40:07.040 --> 01:40:12.720 from small from short term to long term so you're talking about uh i'm trying to understand this 01:40:12.720 --> 01:40:19.520 you're talking about walking along arterials or you talk about crossing arterials i'd say both 01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:24.640 ways to just make the whole street now the cross is an important part of that for sure 01:40:24.640 --> 01:40:29.600 but also um you know and i know some of the things again would be long term like the sidewalks that 01:40:29.600 --> 01:40:34.880 where you're walking you know inches from cars going 35 40 miles per hour is obviously a problem 01:40:34.880 --> 01:40:40.800 but in some spots that's going to take a longer term planning but i'm also interested in short term 01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:47.120 you know slow uh you know measures to slow cars i think there's a variety of options out there 01:40:47.120 --> 01:40:52.400 and and when i've talked to gerard and keely they've encouraged me to try to see if we can 01:40:52.400 --> 01:40:56.240 get some kind of report and discussion going um because i don't know all the answers but i 01:40:56.240 --> 01:40:59.760 certainly just would like to learn more and figure out what is possible in those two areas 01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:08.080 yeah and i have to second that you know um what is now the twice as nice and what's the coffee shop 01:41:08.080 --> 01:41:16.880 zero yeah and zero coffee that used to be um a garden center it was a feed uh feed and seed 01:41:16.880 --> 01:41:22.640 sales spot which of course would have yeah heart pools was there so it used to be you know track 01:41:22.640 --> 01:41:30.320 heavy truck traffic right there but now we have apartments just you know a block away from that 01:41:30.320 --> 01:41:39.200 so as we increase again residential density in that downtown area what we are accustomed to 01:41:39.200 --> 01:41:48.480 like if you've lived in denton 10 20 or 30 and longer um what was 40 years ago is no longer 01:41:48.480 --> 01:41:55.280 but we really kind of built our infrastructure as though that was going to continue that we were 01:41:55.280 --> 01:42:01.760 always going to have a seed company on the corner of mckinney and bell but i think that's something 01:42:01.760 --> 01:42:08.400 that we really really have to start you know recognizing that the more beating hearts we put 01:42:08.400 --> 01:42:15.280 in an area the more we have to slow down traffic the more we have to increase bike infrastructure 01:42:15.280 --> 01:42:20.400 make pedestrians feel safer because all those beating hearts can't get into an internal 01:42:20.400 --> 01:42:27.840 combustion engine car so i think it's the best with easy the simplest way i put it is hickory is 01:42:27.840 --> 01:42:32.160 is going to define denton's core you know if we can make hickory a great street i mean because 01:42:32.160 --> 01:42:36.800 that cuts right through everything if we can make hickory it gets you right to our huge investment 01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:41.120 we've made in dcta right like that's a massive investment and i don't think we're getting enough 01:42:41.120 --> 01:42:46.000 out of it right now um and i think part of that is is walkability even though it's only a block 01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:51.360 away the the psychological and physical barrier bell it's just i think more people it's off their 01:42:51.360 --> 01:42:56.320 radar so i think as we continue to think about that if we can make hickory a great urban street 01:42:56.320 --> 01:43:02.320 i think we can change denton and make it the you know premier smaller town and this whole you know 01:43:02.320 --> 01:43:07.280 dfw metroplex i think we already are there in some ways but i think we can continue that's that's our 01:43:07.280 --> 01:43:12.000 strength as a city in my opinion it's not razor ranch and other areas that you could have anywhere 01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:17.520 you could build those areas anywhere what we have on hey along hickory is a university s square and 01:43:17.520 --> 01:43:21.520 it's really unique so i'm just i'm excited about it i love what's there but i think it can turn into 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:29.360 something really incredible so i think part of the answer is our master thoroughfare plan we're 01:43:29.360 --> 01:43:34.320 gonna start defining how our cross sections are gonna play out and some of the discussion in that 01:43:34.320 --> 01:43:41.680 will be our are these streets that used to be arterials can can they still continue being that 01:43:41.680 --> 01:43:48.480 but at the same time have some other characteristics as far as um you know the required pedestrian 01:43:48.480 --> 01:43:55.920 improvements can there be other options to calm traffic down in between uh not with signals but 01:43:55.920 --> 01:44:02.400 something else so we're it could be a starting point where we start talking about the 01:44:02.400 --> 01:44:12.000 complete street segments for some of these arterials would that also include the locust 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:19.520 that comes in yes elman locust will definitely be one of our top ones because we're currently 01:44:19.520 --> 01:44:27.760 working on several drainage projects that will lift that whole area out of the strong water or 01:44:27.760 --> 01:44:35.920 floodplain and once that happens the whole land will be redeveloped pretty soon of short notice 01:44:35.920 --> 01:44:42.160 so we need to be prepared for what are what is our next step how do we put infrastructure on 01:44:42.880 --> 01:44:49.760 locust and elm especially between eagle and the square at this point well i guess they'd also just 01:44:49.760 --> 01:44:55.120 think about like so when you get when you go to the loop you can get to the loop because i live on 01:44:55.120 --> 01:45:00.320 that side of town you can get there through locust you can go down sherman and there's houses being 01:45:00.320 --> 01:45:07.600 built on the other side of the loop now so as a bicyclist i think to myself if anybody lived over 01:45:07.600 --> 01:45:16.160 there how are they how would they get into town but they would have to use one of the you know 01:45:16.160 --> 01:45:23.600 i wouldn't i would not get on the loop on my bike i would not do that sherman i've done it 01:45:23.600 --> 01:45:29.520 but i mean how are you i just don't see that anybody out there is going to be able to get 01:45:29.520 --> 01:45:34.080 into town from there well you do what one of my friends does it lives in south ridge and he 01:45:34.080 --> 01:45:41.040 bicycles to u and t and he takes t's lee he has to take t's lee oh my gosh wow okay 01:45:41.040 --> 01:45:46.960 that's rough i'm not sure there are many parts of t's lee i would also not get on on my bike 01:45:46.960 --> 01:45:50.400 he's in that two percent yes 01:45:50.400 --> 01:45:58.880 does anybody have anything else that you want to add to pre-tem's matrix 01:46:04.240 --> 01:46:10.080 i'm wondering they're gone they're tired of us i'm wondering it's been a couple 01:46:10.080 --> 01:46:15.040 years or at least a year and a half since we have had a joint traffic safety mobility committee 01:46:15.040 --> 01:46:21.680 meeting um i don't know do we have things that we would like to talk about with the commission 01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:28.160 and the mobility committee did you know we can start thinking in that direction we can say that 01:46:28.160 --> 01:46:34.880 we're going to bring it back next month but the next two to three months we can definitely have 01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:40.480 a joint meeting i mean if there's if there are things that you think we should kind of put our 01:46:40.480 --> 01:46:46.960 heads together um you know we've done that before we'll definitely look into that okay 01:46:49.680 --> 01:47:00.960 okay if you have nothing else motion to adjourn hi jim's ready to go and we have a second so it is 01:47:00.960 --> 01:47:08.240 7 19 and we'll see you next week or next next month next month i'm so excited i want to see 01:47:08.240 --> 01:47:10.640 y'all next week next week