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 >> Okay everybody, good evening and welcome to the Monday, February 4th,

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 2019 City of Denton Traffic Safety Commission.

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 It is 5 31, we have a quorum and we will get started.

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 Number 1 on our agenda is items-- under items for consideration is 1A TSC 19-008 which is

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 to consider approval of the minutes for the Traffic Safety Commission meeting

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 for January 7th, 2019.

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 Has everybody had a chance to take a look at the minutes?

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 Were there any corrections?

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 Okay, in that case, do we have a motion for approval?

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 >> Motion for approval.

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 >> And do we have a second?

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 >> Second.

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 >> All right, everyone in favor?

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 >> Aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> Opposed?

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 Excellent, unanimous.

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 That brings us to item 1B TSC 19-009 which is to receive a report, hold a discussion

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 and provide staff direction regarding bicycle lanes on West Hickory Street

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 between Avenue B and Welsh Streets.

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 >> And Mark is chewing, sorry.

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 >> I'm sorry, I thought I had another item before I apologize.

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 Good evening, Mark Oliphant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator.

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 We'll be talking about bicycle lanes on Hickory Street in the Fry Street area, two block area.

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 This is a hot topic, we brought it last week to the Mobility Committee and discussed it there.

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 I also like to get the Traffic Safety Commission's take on it as well.

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 Just to orient you, so Hickory Street is a one-way eastbound road with two lanes parking

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 on both sides currently in this area.

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 There are businesses, bars, restaurants and so forth.

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 In the current approved mobility, I'm sorry, Bicycle and Pedestrian Plan,

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 it calls for a bike lane along the length of Hickory Street from I-35 here all the way

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 to Carroll Boulevard and this portion is a part of that.

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 In the Oak Gateway Area Plan, that is also discussed, the same stretch of road.

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 There are two recommendations, the original create a continuous bike lane along Hickory Street

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 and develop a street cross section for Hickory Street which incorporates a number

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 of different speed limits, rights of way, overhead utilities, things like that.

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 Parking patterns, we installed a camera on the corner of Hickory and Fry Street

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 and recorded parking patterns for about one week.

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 This was in, I want to say August or September once school had started

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 and recorded what the patterns were of people parking here, where they were going.

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 During the day, during school, many of them went to UNT but outside of those hours,

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 they also did park there and go to restaurants, bars and other things like that,

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 go to the other side of the street.

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 So we, because this was a controversial issue, we hired a consultant,

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 a very well-known company called Alta Planning and Design.

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 They're nationally recognized for Bicycle and Pedestrian work and they came

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 up with five different options for us for this area.

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 I'm going to go through each of those.

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 So option one, I'll say option one and two are very similar.

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 They involve removing parking on the street.

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 We would lose an area of 20 to 24 parking spaces

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 and we would have bike lanes on the streets.

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 So here's the first one.

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 We remove parking on the north side of Hickory Street and then we would have a,

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 what we call a parking protected bike lane.

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 You can see on the south side, the parallel parking protects the bike lane

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 and you have about a three-foot buffer with that bike lane there.

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 That's on the first block.

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 On the second block, similar, although it would no longer be parking protected,

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 parking would be retained on the north side.

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 And then up to Welch Street, you'd keep your bike lane

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 on the south side parking on the north side.

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 Option two is somewhat similar except this one,

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 we would not have the bike lane be parking protected.

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 The parking would stay on the north side of Hickory Street

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 and you would still have a buffer though between the bike lane

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 and the regular vehicular travel lane.

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 I'm going to continue on here.

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 You can see in the green, this is what's called a bike box.

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 It's at Avenue A and-- oh, this is actually-- I'm sorry, Avenue A is on this side.

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 Fry is here.

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 This is helps when you have a red light or something that bicycles can get

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 in front of the cars where they can see them and then get repositioned on the lanes

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 and ending at Welch Street.

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 So, those are the two options that keep the lanes right or give a--

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 it gives a bike lane in harmony with the plan and that lane stays on the road.

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 Option three, here we go.

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 This one is interesting.

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 It keeps all of the on-street parking and for a one-block section,

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 it moves the bike lane behind the curb, a cycle track is what we call that.

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 So, let's go.

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 So, right now currently we have a nine-foot sidewalk

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 on the south side of Hickory Street.

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 This would bring in a bike lane, have a small curb and then have the sidewalk next

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 to it more or less for the one-block section.

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 And this way, you save all of the parking.

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 Similar bike box here, the bicycles would return to traffic once they get

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 to Avenue A Fry and then continue on like those first two options.

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 And so, this saves a lot of parking between Avenue B and Avenue A Fry.

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 Option four, this is our least favorite option from a traffic

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 and transportation engineering because it tries to save everything

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 and in the process we lose a travel lane.

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 And the loss of that travel lane would severely adversely impact the throughput

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 of the roadway, currently you have two lanes but often due to loading

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 and unloading, cars stopping to parallel park, things like that,

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 you lose the functionality of one lane.

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 So, this takes it down to only one through lane and we do not endorse this

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 but we at least wanted to show it and show what that would look like.

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 So, you are from Avenue B to Avenue A Fry and continuing onward.

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 You go back at Welch, you get back to two lanes again.

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 But that would be a severe choke point.

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 Finally, option five, this one came out fairly late in the game due

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 to some brainstorming with the Oak Gateway Area Plan working group.

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 And what this tries to achieve is slowing down all of the traffic in this area

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 so that it is a safe place for vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles,

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 all of those different user groups to mix.

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 It would incorporate some add-on features such as speed tables,

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 raised crosswalks, bulb outs, if you are familiar with those

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 where near intersections and so forth, the intersection narrows

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 and that psychologically signals to drivers to slow down.

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 One thing we've also thought about adding here is possible mid-block crossings

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 between Avenue B and A Fry and between A Fry and Welch because there is

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 so much pedestrian traffic in the area and there's actually a great deal

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 of jaywalking right now just because it's such a popular pedestrian area.

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 So, here's another up close there, this is the Fry and Avenue A intersection.

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 I'll go to the third slide here, so on your right side you can see these are the bolt

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 down features and what we tried to do here was only use features that could be removed

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 that were not permanent so that this could in some ways function as an experiment.

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 So, up top those are speed tables made out of like high density polymer

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 that are bolted to the asphalt.

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 Next to it speed cushions similar, those allow for high clearance vehicles such as fire trucks,

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 emergency vehicles to transit at a higher rate of speed.

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 And below other options, these are a bike rail here made out of steel that bolts

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 to the road surface and also planters, that's something that's also often used

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 to kind of help delineate infrastructure or a more visually appealing means of doing that.

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 So, that is our fifth option.

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 Now, the mobility committee did give us some direction about this.

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 We presented the five options, they preferred option three which is that cycle track

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 for the one block length between Avenue B and Avenue A fry.

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 But there-- that is one of the least simple options I'll say.

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 It does involve coordination with UNT and actually today I was meeting with them talking

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 about some of the different options here.

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 So, either widening that current sidewalk or perhaps separating the bike lane

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 and the sidewalk we're looking into possibilities.

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 But then also we are looking at the possibility of changing the traffic pattern,

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 just investigating what that would look like on Avenue A south of Hickory Street.

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 That's been talked about as a traffic calming feature but it continues the search

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 for the perfect solution continues.

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 That concludes my presentation, I'd be happy to take your questions.

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 >> I have a question about the pattern, the traffic pattern on Avenue A,

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 what are they thinking about?

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 >> Two possibilities that we're just investigating are either closing off Avenue A

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 at Hickory Street, have more or less a cul-de-sac there, vehicles could turn around

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 or making it a one-way street just on Avenue A northbound

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 so the vehicles won't turn southbound off of Hickory and you avoid the possibility

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 of your right hook, vehicle, bicycle, crash possibility.

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 That's a lot of bicycle vehicle accidents are that right hook where bicycles are traveling

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 on the right side, vehicle doesn't see them, either turns in front of them or into them

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 and a dangerous situation, it would avoid that.

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 Currently though there are UNT buses and DCTA buses that do make the right turn

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 so that is something that we certainly have to consider and as we investigate this.

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 >> Can we see a visual?

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 Can you bring up one of the-- on Plan B that they were talking about and then it might change?

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 >> Hi, Pritam Deshmukh, traffic engineer for the city.

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 Let me go back to the maps and talk about this particular alternative.

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 What was happening is in the discussion we had with the mobility committee,

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 it was brought up that why don't we look at adding more parking spaces

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 and this would be a good space, this particular segment of Avenue A would be a good section

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 to look at if we turn it into one way or if we do a--

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 shut down this area and convert it into a cul-de-sac, this would be used as unidirectional

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 which means you can actually angle park on this side and add a bunch of space.

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 Currently it looks like parking but this is all loading area, this is loading and loading.

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 There are quite a few things that we need to talk to especially bring it back

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 to the business owners and see if this is something that they'll be willing to explore.

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 Talk to UNT, we started that discussion, we haven't received any firm responses as to,

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 you know, are they on board, how are they-- are they willing to even consider that.

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 So if we go with this option, it'll be one direction northbound in this direction

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 and you can actually angle parking the same angle this is

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 and this signal will be outbound only so there is no inbound access going south.

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 And we're looking at some numbers for traffic and from a traffic number standpoint,

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 there's very few people that are actually using this leg going south so that is a plus

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 but there are several as I mentioned, there are several things that we're looking at.

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 And one of the things that was brought up, if we add parking here then is there a possibility

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 of removing the parking ads on Hickory?

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 So can we do a swap sort of deal and how much or what's the impact?

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 So that's the item that we're investigating.

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 We don't have a firm answer since it was just brought up last week.

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 We did have a meeting with UNT as a start but we don't have a confirmed answer.

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 So on the option that mobility committee picked was option three,

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 they also wanted to see if it was feasible as well as they wanted to see

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 if there is some kind of balance, you know, not losing the parking

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 but at the same time there's a bike lane that is provided.

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 So if we go with the closure of this particular street and add parking here,

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 then there is a chance that we can reconsider and look into option one

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 or two as recommendation here.

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 So there's a lot of things happening and there is no firm decision.

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 But I'll leave it up to the committee which option they prefer

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 and if they have any questions.

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 >> Oh, I just want to say real quickly that it looks like the data that we have

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 from the traffic study really 90 percent of people who park

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 on Hickory Street go south, go over to the university.

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 So losing the parking spots on Hickory and adding them

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 on Avenue A would serve the purpose really

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 that the parking spots are serving.

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 >> Yes, but we do have to bring it back to the business and make sure

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 that they're okay with the swap, they're okay with--

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 and then UNT has to be involved.

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 So we haven't really vetted this scenario.

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 This just came about last week.

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 >> Yeah. Well, I think it's something we should.

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 That would be something I would say we should continue that discussion.

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 >> On that, I'm bringing it back to the business.

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 Are we sure that parking spots equal more business for the businesses?

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 Are we sure that that's like an even swap or could it be possible

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 that if we build a more bike pedestrian friendly street

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 that that actually long term increases business for businesses?

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 Do we know-- do we have much data on that?

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 >> I think he has an answer but I would like to start with some of the businesses

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 and correct me if I'm wrong Mark, you've talked to Chipotle.

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 They don't really have parking per se.

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 They're using city parking as their parking.

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 So there is no assigned or area parking for them.

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 So if they start producing the number of parking that is available,

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 then really those people that really want to come to this area wouldn't show up for lunch.

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 But he has some research information on--

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 >> Yeah. And it really, honestly, isn't that a chance that businesses take

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 when you put your business in the middle of a high pedestrian low parked area,

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 you're making that business decision that you want traffic, foot traffic, not car traffic

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 because there's another Chipotle at Razor Ranch.

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 You can drive to it.

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 >> Right.

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 >> OK. I'm sorry Mark.

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 Carry on.

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 >> No, that's fine.

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 There is scholarship out there.

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 There's articles and so forth that discuss this and in a number

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 of contexts, yes, making a neighborhood or an area more pedestrian

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 and bicycle friendly can definitely contribute to improvements in business to greater sales.

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 I do have a hard time though, I don't know quite what the word is,

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 comparing those directly to Fry Street and downtown Denton.

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 A lot of the research is large metropolitan areas, New York City, Philadelphia, Canada,

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00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:27,480
 Toronto where you have a robust grid network, you have people who are accustomed

233
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,320
 to using public transit, to walking many places and things like that.

234
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:37,640
 So, I haven't seen something yet that I feel comfortable putting in front

235
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:43,680
 of the business owners and saying I really think this will be a good tradeoff to you

236
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:49,120
 but I agree that there is evidence out there for this in a number of contexts

237
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:55,440
 and we've had some great research provided to us to use for that.

238
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,800
 >> Well, one thing to that point is just I'm curious too, it's hard to imagine it

239
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,080
 because Denton has been so suburban even in its urban areas.

240
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,520
 We've built around cars for so many years but, you know, I think of like Portland

241
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,760
 and Amsterdam and these cities that you just go back 20, 30 years ago

242
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,120
 and they had no bike infrastructure.

243
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:15,200
 Now, they're like known for biking because they built it.

244
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:15,440
 >> Right.

245
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,280
 >> And so, it's hard to ever know what's going to happen but, you know,

246
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,000
 this area is already really popular and I think about how many times I've been

247
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,200
 to Chipotle, I've never driven a car there and I've been there a lot.

248
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,880
 I've had too many burritos there.

249
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,040
 And so, anyway, I just am curious too if we're overestimating because we're

250
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,920
 so used to seeing I park and I walk into a store

251
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,800
 that we're underestimating how many people are walking from UNT and their cars parked

252
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,200
 in a parking garage a long ways away but they're spending the day there

253
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,120
 and they're going to all these businesses.

254
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,600
 So, it would be great if we-- I'd love to see if we could figure out a way

255
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,560
 to even look at that.

256
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,000
 The other thing is we-- you know, when we took away the parking,

257
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,960
 I'm sure that's made it people park there longer and hurt their business

258
00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,920
 and we may-- we took away the pay parking in that area and I can't imagine

259
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,960
 that that didn't hurt businesses for all that because people park there longer

260
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,240
 and just risk it with the ticket if there's no time period there.

261
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,840
 So, I'm wondering if that's something we could relook at as a way to ensure

262
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,160
 that people are going to Chipotle, getting their car out of the way

263
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,760
 so a new customer can go into those spots.

264
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,320
 >> I will say out of all of the areas of Denton that I'm familiar with, this is--

265
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:28,480
 this intersection, Frye Avenue A and Hickory is one of the most pedestrian dents

266
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,320
 and so if there is a location in Denton that would be conducive,

267
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:38,480
 I think this would be a very good candidate but I'm just, you know, it's--

268
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:45,000
 when someone's livelihood is on the line, I'm very hesitant to make that direct

269
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,800
 recommendation or approach.

270
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,200
 >> And actually, to your point about how the car turnover,

271
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,320
 I did the math on the numbers were provided.

272
00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:01,920
 So, on the southbound side, only 89 cars park there during that--

273
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:09,200
 one of these average days when if we had enforced paid two-hour parking,

274
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,680
 we could have parked 144 cars there.

275
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,920
 So, those businesses, if they were thinking about this,

276
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:24,640
 we are losing over 50 cars worth of business because people are parking

277
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,520
 for the day to go to school.

278
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:33,560
 So, they're, you know, kind of shooting themselves in the foot here because they are--

279
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,960
 they want parking yet don't want paid parking and-- but in reality,

280
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,480
 people are parking and like I said, even if we take out two spots there,

281
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:50,360
 we should have about 132 cars turning over during the course of the day instead

282
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,480
 of 89 cars on the south side turning over.

283
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,520
 So, they're losing-- I mean, the area is losing warm bodies anyway.

284
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,760
 >> I do know the Oak Gateway area plan did recommend parking benefit districts

285
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,520
 and from speaking with business owners there, I know there's a great deal

286
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,600
 of interest in that, but that would all have to be worked out how

287
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,960
 that might work and so forth.

288
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,960
 >> OK. Do we want to hear?

289
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,760
 >> I think that's your own too, Hedda.

290
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:24,240
 >> I'm sorry?

291
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,920
 >> Mr. Allen had a question also.

292
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,120
 >> I just want to point out something to you.

293
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:34,320
 All the circulars on the whole-- on the entire campus being green, the discovery park,

294
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:40,760
 they all come down and they turn right on Avenue A and they go back through Mulberry to Welsh.

295
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,920
 Now, if they could-- they could go down to Welsh and take a right but they can't do it

296
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:51,240
 with that corner because you've got two lanes coming up blocking

297
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,800
 and that 35-foot bus can't make that right turn.

298
00:22:54,800 --> 00:23:00,360
 And you've got the handicapped corner which the wheel goes up on.

299
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:05,720
 So, you'd have to change that whole corner and that whole thing to make it work.

300
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,120
 And you're going to hear this from UNT because we're talking about all--

301
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,840
 the entire circulars of the being green, they go to Fouts Field, they go to Apogee,

302
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:20,480
 they all come down Hickory and turn right at Avenue A. And they could go up--

303
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,600
 if you could work, make it work and go up to the corner if you want to.

304
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,120
 But then-- and we could also go straight out from Welsh to Oak.

305
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:33,560
 But you'd have to put a stoplight there to make it safe for us to make a left turn

306
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,280
 on Oak and go out to Bonnie Bray.

307
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,760
 Now, if you did that, it wouldn't bother us as far as the 35-foot bus.

308
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:47,800
 But I got a question, you know, we've been doing this thing for two years.

309
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:55,840
 We started with taking the-- remember, we started with taking off the parking,

310
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,320
 paying the parking.

311
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,760
 He didn't want to do the nickels and dimes.

312
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,600
 And then we went to the, you know, the smartphone thing.

313
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:05,880
 They said, "Well, let's take it all off."

314
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:11,240
 Then the business owner said, "Well, you know, we want it just like the square.

315
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,920
 We want the two-hour parking."

316
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,600
 But nobody enforces it.

317
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,200
 Then, "Oh, yeah, then we gave the enforcement to UNT."

318
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,800
 And nobody enforces it.

319
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,280
 So, you know, and then my other question is if--

320
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,320
 in order to do the pedestrian, the bicycle people right, they need--

321
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,560
 they need to-- they don't need to go off here and-- they need a one path.

322
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,600
 Otherwise, not just casual, but if you're going to have, you know,

323
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,560
 tournaments and you get a lot of people.

324
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,240
 >> Yeah, there are definite objections from the cycling community to being diverted off

325
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:56,280
 of the main roadway under option three for a block and then return to the pavement

326
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,840
 and what's included in leaving and returning to the roadway

327
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,120
 and possible dangerous interactions with moving vehicles.

328
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,200
 >> Well, I just want to point the bus thing out to you.

329
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,040
 >> I appreciate that.

330
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,120
 >> It can be made-- it can be done, but it's going to cost you money to fix Welsh

331
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:20,160
 and Hickory for us to make a right turn there and then for us to stop signs.

332
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,760
 I mean, not a stop sign, but an actual light to get onto Oak.

333
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,400
 Because of that high berm on the right-hand side,

334
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:35,200
 we can't see the oncoming traffic at Oak and Hickory-- Oak and Welsh, I'm sorry.

335
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,560
 >> Thank you.

336
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,160
 >> Jeff.

337
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,440
 >> Yeah, I was just curious in your suggestion on--

338
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:48,160
 or one of the suggestions on switching the parking spots from Hickory to Avenue A,

339
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,960
 is it an even swap or what's the numbers on that?

340
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600
 >> It's close.

341
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:06,080
 We think we could put 16 to 20 on that west side diagonal angled parking,

342
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,920
 but you would lose, I think, 24 up here.

343
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,760
 So it's not quite, but you save some of them.

344
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,440
 >> Close.

345
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,760
 >> To point out that option where you would like to--

346
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,200
 >> Yeah.

347
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:24,680
 >> Parking on both sides of the street is in 19 spaces, so it's in the realm of possible.

348
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,520
 You might be able to swap it.

349
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:33,760
 >> But you're not making any allowance for deliveries.

350
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,560
 >> That's true.

351
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,720
 Currently, here, it's marked as a loading zone.

352
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,440
 What we hear is it's mostly used for delivery drivers of the Jimmy Johns and things

353
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,560
 like that who quickly park there, run in and get their deliveries and take them out.

354
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,080
 If it were 16 on that side, then we would have space for a delivery area.

355
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,320
 I think if we went to 20, we wouldn't have that space or a loading zone.

356
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,360
 >> Well, I mean, it's just-- it's not just Jimmy Johns, it's Cisco.

357
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:06,200
 >> Oh, right.

358
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,080
 The big ones as well.

359
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,280
 >> With a 40-foot van.

360
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:08,640
 >> Yeah.

361
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,760
 >> And then those people would have to pull into the very hall and they'd go back in there.

362
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,200
 >> Right here.

363
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,480
 >> I don't know what they deliver, but there's a lot of cars that go back in there.

364
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:24,840
 >> I had a couple of just clarifications.

365
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,280
 On option two, when you said the buffer, was that paint or was that protected on option two?

366
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,960
 >> Just paint on option two.

367
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,720
 With that width, you could potentially put the plastic-- the flexible delineator posts,

368
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:45,120
 but there's not enough width to put a planter or something like that.

369
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:49,880
 Potentially one of those, if you recall from option three-- or I'm sorry, option five,

370
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,760
 one of those bolt down could-- you see here, it's down through the middle.

371
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:01,280
 That is a potential option and it has those plastic reflective posts.

372
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,680
 >> So otherwise, option one is the only one that has an actual protected bike lane built

373
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:06,640
 into the proposal.

374
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:06,640
 >> Correct.

375
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:07,840
 >> OK.

376
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,400
 >> You said-- did I hear you say that the mobility committee suggested five

377
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,600
 and you said it was three?

378
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,320
 >> Three.

379
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,680
 >> What was the five?

380
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,160
 >> Which one did the mobility--

381
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,240
 >> Yeah, three, three.

382
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,640
 Of the five options, they like number three.

383
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,280
 I think that was my-- yeah, of the five, they like number three.

384
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:34,880
 >> All right, Michelle, we have several cards.

385
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,680
 Should we continue our discussion post hearing from the public?

386
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:47,080
 OK. So I have four cards and I'll call you up, but if anybody else wants to speak on this

387
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,560
 who has not yet submitted a card, you can still speak, fill out a card afterward.

388
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,160
 So I have Alejandro first.

389
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,800
 So if you would come up to the front, state your name and your address

390
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,040
 and then give us your comments.

391
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:03,760
 >> Howdy.

392
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:04,120
 OK.

393
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,040
 >> And questions.

394
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,120
 >> OK. Howdy.

395
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,000
 My name is Alejandro Guerrero Juarez.

396
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,160
 I live at 425 Fulton Street, 76201 Denton, Texas.

397
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,200
 And I have been following this issue since the open hall from the committee,

398
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:25,280
 the West Oak Committee or something like that, in November or December at Calhoun Middle School.

399
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,560
 And I also spoke-- I attended and spoke at the last city council meeting about three weeks ago

400
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,320
 about this issue as well and also watched the live stream of the mobility committee

401
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,320
 when during my break at work.

402
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,480
 I wanted to attend, but I have to be at work like the next minute.

403
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,360
 So I instead watched the live stream so I can stay informed about it.

404
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,080
 And I bring up the live stream because there was one moment in particular

405
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,280
 where I verbally expressed my frustration at my computer and that only happens

406
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,240
 when I'm playing video games, only.

407
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,640
 So for me to do that about a committee hearing or to a committee hearing should say a lot

408
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,520
 about how worried I am about this.

409
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:10,040
 And so I don't-- I'm not going to mention what the moment was, who was speaking.

410
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,480
 I just want-- I just want you guys to know that there was one point that I was really frustrated

411
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:20,400
 and that's why I'm here today because I asked myself and I want you guys to ask yourself

412
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,760
 and really think about it, what are we prioritizing here?

413
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:31,600
 Are we prioritizing the safety of not only cyclists but all citizens of the community?

414
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,680
 Are we prioritizing their safety or are we prioritizing the success

415
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,920
 of the businesses, of the local businesses?

416
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,640
 I understand both are really important for communities to exist and to prosper

417
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,400
 and to grow and to succeed.

418
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,960
 I visit a lot of the restaurants down here.

419
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,160
 I go to Jimmy John's a lot, I go to Sushi Cafe a lot, and I also go to Ora Coffee a lot.

420
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,320
 And I don't want to see those businesses fail.

421
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,560
 I want them to succeed as any community should see their businesses succeed.

422
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,720
 But as a citizen that walks around here a lot and someone that used to cycle

423
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,200
 around here a lot, I want you guys to think about it.

424
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,480
 Who are we prioritizing?

425
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,080
 What are we prioritizing?

426
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,920
 And that's what I really want you guys to understand, like a car is like a ton.

427
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,840
 A bike has nothing against the car.

428
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,680
 A car can completely demolish a bicycle, completely demolish a cyclist.

429
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,880
 The cars should be the least of our focuses.

430
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,480
 And this issue really right now, kind of straight away, but this issue really right now

431
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,520
 is about who are we prioritizing and this should be fixed soon rather than later

432
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,040
 because I know some of you guys have been working on it for two plus years on this issue.

433
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,920
 And I've only been following it for like four months.

434
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,480
 But this is an issue that needs to be fixed now.

435
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,320
 And I know the streets need to be paved soon.

436
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:55,920
 And I just want to say I'm in favor of a bike lane on the south side towards UNT

437
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,840
 because we want a consistent path of bike lane like Mr. Owens mentioned.

438
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,920
 We want a consistency in the bike lane.

439
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,960
 And then parking, I know we're going to lose parking for a lot of the local businesses.

440
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,960
 But we can fix that later.

441
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,040
 Oh, sorry.

442
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:11,840
 I didn't notice.

443
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,320
 Okay.

444
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:12,640
 Thank you.

445
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,240
 Okay.

446
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,520
 All right.

447
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,640
 You have questions?

448
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,120
 Oh, okay.

449
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:25,440
 Garrett, if you would come to the front, state your name, your address.

450
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,880
 And I forgot to tell Alejandro he had three minutes.

451
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,840
 But you did great.

452
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,600
 Hi, I'm Garrett Rimmor.

453
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,120
 I'm at 1700 Crescent.

454
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:44,080
 And yeah, just I agree with the written staff recommendation for options one or two.

455
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:50,560
 I haven't really, I guess, voiced the negatives that I see in some of the plans.

456
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,920
 So I'd like to kind of walk through a little bit of some of my preferences for some of them.

457
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:03,920
 Some of the negatives that I see with option one is that it's not the most consistent

458
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,560
 of the plans. If you look further up on back towards Bonnie Bray on Hickory,

459
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,280
 you have parking on the north side and bike lane on the south with the two travel lanes in between.

460
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:20,080
 This one kind of flip flops it during this area so that you do end up with cars on the south,

461
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,640
 parked on south side with the bike lane.

462
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,160
 So you get a little bit of lane shifting.

463
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,120
 And so I'm not sure on the effect that'll have with the drivers.

464
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,440
 But it is a notable, notable difference.

465
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,400
 And then I also have some concerns about coming out from behind a row of parked cars

466
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:42,000
 at the traffic light and kind of rejoining traffic a bit.

467
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680
 It kind of seems like you could hide behind the cars and kind of surprise the driver if

468
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,200
 they forget about you as you travel down that segment of Hickory.

469
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,040
 So option two is my favorite.

470
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,880
 It lines up with the existing road configuration like before and after.

471
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,920
 So I think it's the one that makes the most sense.

472
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:07,040
 It's also the one that's most, I guess, fiscally responsible and has the lowest price.

473
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:14,000
 I would like to see vertical delineators of some sort on there just to try to give an extra buffer.

474
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,200
 I think otherwise you may end up seeing like a Highland Street type behavior as far as

475
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,840
 the bike lane being used for loading and unloading.

476
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:27,600
 And then option three, the cycle track.

477
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,520
 I like the thought and effort in trying to take all of the checkboxes to keep people happy,

478
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,840
 but it feels kind of underdeveloped at this time.

479
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:43,600
 I think a cycle track would be a good potential for use in Denton if it were more places.

480
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,160
 But here we're trying to use it to patch a single issue.

481
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,320
 And so you're going to create a very inconsistent path through the area

482
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,040
 with jumping on and off into the road and out of the road.

483
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:02,000
 So it's also a downhill, so I've been kind of trying to, whenever I ride down Hickory,

484
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120
 try to visualize moving over to the sidewalk and traveling down it.

485
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,440
 And you clear that block in very little time.

486
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,720
 And so the idea of trying to go up on there mixed with potentially pedestrian traffic,

487
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:20,240
 which I'm sure once it gets done, it has a potential for just being a very nice sidewalk

488
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:25,440
 and there'll be person bicycle conflict created.

489
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,480
 And so yeah, I just think it needs more work.

490
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,800
 - You've got eight seconds.

491
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:39,680
 - Okay, and then kind of the rest, I think kind of speak for themselves, the calm street.

492
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,160
 I think you'll have issues with buses and severely making all the turns.

493
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,240
 So thank you for your time.

494
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,280
 - All right, thank you.

495
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:56,880
 - Okay, Daisy, and give us your name, address.

496
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,240
 - Hi there, my name's Daisy Horta.

497
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:03,120
 I am at 3252 Bent Creek Drive.

498
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,320
 On my card, I think I selected I was in support, and I think what I meant by that

499
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,920
 in my comments was I'm supportive of any kind of infrastructure that helps bicycles,

500
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,800
 but I am not in support of option three for some of the reasons that Garrett had stated.

501
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,280
 And also things to consider that I have not yet heard were doors, opening doors.

502
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,320
 That's one of the reasons, the top reasons, at least that I've seen in articles

503
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,600
 that cause accidents is coming from behind.

504
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:35,680
 I've heard several people mention cyclists coming from behind cars, but the doors is an issue.

505
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:43,040
 So with option three, we would have if people are carpooling, the passenger door option,

506
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,040
 that barrier that would separate the pedestrians from the cyclists.

507
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,200
 Closing in on that downhill, very short option space.

508
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,080
 Someone mentioned jaywalking, and that's jaywalking on streets.

509
00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:01,200
 So who's to say that pedestrians wouldn't jaywalk on the cycle line barrier with option three,

510
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,040
 given that they might be on their phones and, you know, not complaining,

511
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,480
 but just being realistic of what a college campus is like.

512
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,600
 It's not very linear, or the pedestrians are not very linear in the way that they walk.

513
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,320
 I don't remember off the top of my head which one was option one or two,

514
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,800
 but it seemed like both of them wore bike lanes on the street, and I am in favor of that.

515
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:31,520
 Yes, there are, you know, the parking spaces that would be removed.

516
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:36,640
 And I thank you, all of you, for doing your research and looking at traffic patterns and

517
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,280
 looking at both sides of the situation.

518
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,320
 So that is appreciated.

519
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,000
 I know that sometimes you might get some people who complain, so thank you.

520
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,640
 But that's the reason why I'm not in favor of option three,

521
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,400
 but I am in favor of something that helps in any way.

522
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,720
 And mostly just thank you.

523
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,920
 Thank you.

524
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,520
 Okay, and Susie.

525
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:23,600
 Hi, I'm Susie, I live at 1700 Crescent Street.

526
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,600
 Susie Rumore is my full name.

527
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,560
 And what I want to look at is just sort of, you know,

528
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,600
 if you look at a lot of Denton's long-term planning documents.

529
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,200
 Sorry, I'm trying to start my stopwatch.

530
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,880
 So if you look at a lot of Denton's long-term planning,

531
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,000
 there's a big emphasis on more walking and biking, right?

532
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,160
 So the reasons for that are air quality, first of all.

533
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,480
 You know, our air quality is not great here.

534
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,560
 Public health, a lot of us sit a lot.

535
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,840
 Biking and walking is an easy way for us to incorporate some physical activity into our day.

536
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,480
 There's noise pollution, road safety, and all of that adds up to quality of life.

537
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,440
 So, you know, in order to encourage more people to bike, we have to have things that feel safe.

538
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,960
 I found it, okay.

539
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:15,280
 All right, so we need people to feel safe, right?

540
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:22,480
 This is from the North Central Texas Council of Government's Bicycle Opinion Survey last year.

541
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,040
 And if you look at this leftmost bar,

542
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,560
 it sort of breaks down in the DFW area how people feel about biking.

543
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,040
 So the green is strong and fearless, that is not me.

544
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,840
 I'm more of the yellow, the enthused and confident, I'll do it.

545
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,760
 I'm fairly confident, but I still get scared and will avoid certain roads.

546
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,760
 But then if you look, there's 36% of people out there are interested but concerned.

547
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,520
 They would ride more if they felt safe.

548
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,480
 And the number one way that we make people feel safe is we separate them from car traffic.

549
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,080
 And the way we keep them safe is we have consistent connected infrastructure.

550
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,520
 Okay, so if you look, the next part that we have concerns about is parking.

551
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,320
 That is the biggest thing that's preventing us from doing option one or two,

552
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,920
 is concerns about losing parking.

553
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:14,720
 If you look at the Oak Gateway Area Plan slide show from the workshop in February of last year,

554
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:20,880
 they told us that 24,000 people live in this O-Gap area.

555
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,600
 So you can see I-35 where that green dot is on the left.

556
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,560
 Forget what the road is.

557
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,400
 Okay, Carol is on the far right.

558
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,280
 This area around UNT has 24,000 people.

559
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,360
 I come from a town of about 25,000.

560
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,600
 We have multiple coffee shops, multiple bars.

561
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,000
 They're all sustained with just 25,000 people spread over a much bigger area.

562
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,080
 So 24,000 people.

563
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:48,000
 I live outside of this area, but I'm still within a mile or a six-minute bike ride from this area.

564
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,200
 Okay, so they have 24,000 customers.

565
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,000
 So plus, or potential customers.

566
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,920
 So if you look at the sort of peach-colored things, that's multi-family.

567
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,360
 There's apartments within like a one-minute walk from this area.

568
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,240
 You have tons of apartments over here.

569
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,880
 All of this is within about a mile and a half, which is within a 10-minute bike ride.

570
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,440
 So I mean, there's tons of people here.

571
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,760
 There's a huge supply of possible customers.

572
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,040
 There's thousands of commuters.

573
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,280
 There's thousands of parking spots at UNT.

574
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,760
 Most people, once they park at UNT, they're not going to move their car to try to find a parking

575
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,720
 spot at Hickory Street because you're not going to find one.

576
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:28,000
 They just park somewhere on the UNT campus with their parking permit,

577
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,960
 and then they just sort of walk everywhere they need to go before they leave for the day.

578
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,640
 So I mean, there's thousands of parking spots nearby.

579
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,440
 Thousands of residents who don't really need to move their car.

580
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,320
 Freshmen at UNT have to park over by Apogee Stadium on the other side of I-35.

581
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,400
 They're not going to walk down there and drive up there.

582
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,080
 So there's plenty of customers.

583
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,040
 Hopefully, we will make a decision that is keeping people safe.

584
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:57,760
 >> Thank you.

585
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:58,800
 >> All right, thank you.

586
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,400
 Okay, that's all the cards.

587
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,640
 Is there anybody else who wants to speak who did not submit a card?

588
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,280
 I'm actually doing a quick inventory, and you've all spoken.

589
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,080
 Okay, there we have it.

590
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,160
 And we have to discuss this.

591
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:24,160
 I do want to follow up with, since I was the chairman of the Oak Gateway small area plan,

592
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:30,480
 I did want to follow up on the population, the density factor.

593
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:42,400
 And that area covered by the Oak Gateway has 18% of the entire population of the city of Denton.

594
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:51,760
 The land area in the Oak Gateway is 2% of all of Denton, not including ETJ, but, you know,

595
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:58,720
 incorporated Denton, 2% of the land, 18% of the population.

596
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,080
 >> That's pretty dense.

597
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,800
 >> Pretty dense, exactly.

598
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,960
 >> I still have a question.

599
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:09,840
 I hope you don't mind.

600
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,320
 I know you had said earlier that you had done a study, and you were figuring out how many people

601
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,520
 came and parked.

602
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:21,440
 Was that just on Hickory, or did you figure out parking for other places that are close to those?

603
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,600
 Because I've gone to restaurants down there, and I don't park on Hickory.

604
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,320
 I'll park like a street or two over, and then I'll walk.

605
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,320
 So was that just considered on Hickory?

606
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,640
 >> We installed a camera.

607
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,080
 It was there for one week.

608
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,680
 It was running the whole time.

609
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:42,480
 It was just, so it was on the northwest corner of the Fry-Hickory intersection pointed westward.

610
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:49,280
 As you can imagine, that's a lot of hours of footage.

611
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,600
 We had our consultant, they had an intern or something go through some of it, took a sample of it.

612
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,000
 So that is exclusively Hickory Street.

613
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,560
 We don't have good data about parking behavior in that area.

614
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,200
 >> Okay, thank you.

615
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,360
 >> You all want me to go first, don't you?

616
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:11,600
 All right.

617
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,320
 >> I got a question.

618
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:12,560
 >> Yes.

619
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:18,960
 >> From number one or number two, what's the straightest shot?

620
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:25,200
 Because you've already spent a ton of money west of it coming down Hickory.

621
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,080
 What's the straightest shot going through that intersection option?

622
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,080
 >> I think it's option two.

623
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,440
 >> The entire bike lane is on the south side for the rest of the segment.

624
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:44,640
 >> And option two keeps parking on the north side adjacent to the businesses.

625
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:50,240
 >> Well, we already voted for that once already.

626
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:56,640
 Well, what happened with taking some land from UNT?

627
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:05,680
 >> Yeah, we are talking to them.

628
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:11,920
 We haven't really received a decision from that point, but we are looking at having some sort

629
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:18,560
 of sidewalk or access easement so that we can make, that is part of the option three

630
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,200
 that we're looking into so that we can have additional area that we can use

631
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,800
 for pedestrians and bicycles.

632
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,280
 >> Do we know, I'm going to play devil's advocate.

633
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,120
 I know we even say in our own documents that we don't like option four.

634
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,440
 And your reasons, I hadn't thought about it, make total sense,

635
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,960
 especially when people are stopping and getting in spaces, it stops traffic.

636
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,160
 But do we know what the traffic counts are?

637
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,240
 So I biked at 5 p.m., about five after 5 p.m. here today.

638
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:53,520
 I made sure to take the route we were discussing to get the experience

639
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,600
 and just look at it one more time before I came.

640
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,920
 And when I sat at that light, I hit the light, got right up to it,

641
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,320
 and sat at it the whole time, three cars.

642
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,760
 It was me in three cars.

643
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,880
 So it just, and maybe it's just during certain hours of the day,

644
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,720
 specific times when it builds up.

645
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:08,800
 How much traffic are we getting on that street?

646
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,640
 Because it doesn't seem like the primary way a lot of people are getting to campus.

647
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,520
 But, so I'm just curious, like if we slowed down, if we just prioritized everything else

648
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,400
 and really slowed down traffic, would it have that amount of effect on the movement

649
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:23,280
 of people throughout there?

650
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:28,080
 And then the other side is, is there also other possibilities about maybe this is UNT

651
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,280
 Showcase Street and we want to slow people down as they come by campus.

652
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,280
 I know that that exists at other college campuses where there's a street

653
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,040
 you can kind of come by and you're not going.

654
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,160
 Because I also think how two lanes also is one of the major factors

655
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,080
 that makes it more dangerous for pedestrians.

656
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,120
 It's when people are trying to go around each other, when a car is,

657
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,720
 you can't see it as a pedestrian.

658
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,360
 And we already have admitted we know people are crossing those streets,

659
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,640
 sometimes drunk, that maybe just for those blocks,

660
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,600
 maybe one lane isn't the worst option.

661
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:58,880
 Maybe it is, but.

662
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,520
 So a couple things to address your concerns.

663
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,400
 Currently the speed limit in this segment is 20 miles an hour.

664
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,720
 So yes, we're trying to do everything to reduce the speeds.

665
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:13,760
 The traffic based on the study that we did for UNT,

666
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,960
 it's around 9,000 vehicles a day on this particular stretch.

667
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,280
 It's about 8,800 or something around that.

668
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:26,560
 And this acts as a couplet with Oak which sends traffic out.

669
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,920
 So these are two major arterials that we have here.

670
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,000
 So it's maybe the time of the day that you were there,

671
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,400
 but for the rest of the day, it's continuous flowing.

672
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,080
 And the other feedback we did receive from the businesses

673
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,880
 when we had the public meeting, they did not like this option.

674
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,040
 Just because the ease of getting in and out of the parking area

675
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,880
 and the congestion will divert people to a different location.

676
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,360
 So they're not in favor of option four.

677
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:59,440
 And I will say too, the first part of that stretch from Avenue A

678
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,400
 all the way to, we'll say start stopping at Avenue A,

679
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,240
 the traffic there all flows really slow.

680
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:08,400
 It doesn't really open up until you get past that,

681
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,680
 like till you pass Crook and Cross.

682
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,240
 That's when it seems like cars then.

683
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:16,160
 That's where more people are probably jaywalking and crossing and where you do.

684
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,200
 I think the other area is actually fine as it is with traffic.

685
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,720
 It's not, you can jump in on a bike pretty easily.

686
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:27,040
 I do think there's an artificial sense of calming

687
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,920
 because of the bad condition of the road currently.

688
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,280
 It's in such bad shape, everyone slows down dramatically.

689
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:38,800
 And when this is rebuilt, it's smooth, I think behavior will change.

690
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:39,840
 Yeah, I think you're right.

691
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:49,680
 Well, also I was on P&Z when we passed the 2012 bike and pedestrian plan.

692
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:56,960
 My preference, my vote, I'll tell you now, as you probably know,

693
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,840
 is for option number two, removing parking on the south side.

694
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:09,200
 I watched the bike plan being vetted in 2011 and 2012.

695
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,880
 And at that point, it obviously went through committees.

696
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,160
 It went through P&Z.

697
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,240
 It went through public hearings.

698
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,960
 It was recommended by council.

699
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:24,640
 So it was a long, long experience with a lot of stakeholders

700
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:30,640
 who in 2012 agreed that that was the bike plan,

701
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:37,360
 that we would be financing and that we would be building in this particular area.

702
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,240
 And the other part of me is a resident.

703
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,520
 This is my neighborhood, and I walk to work.

704
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,720
 I walk down Fry Street from my neighborhood.

705
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:54,640
 And the experience there is that yes, right now, parking on Hickory is being utilized

706
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,240
 and really always has been utilized by students going to the south side.

707
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:05,840
 You can walk into the coffee shop on Sunday.

708
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,000
 There may be no cars there on either side.

709
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,640
 And there could be a line for people deep at the coffee shop.

710
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,720
 And obviously, those people on a Sunday morning have not driven there.

711
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,760
 I spoke about density.

712
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,200
 And again, not only is this the most dense part of Denton,

713
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,360
 but in terms of household income, it's among the lowest.

714
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,800
 Obviously, we're factoring students in there.

715
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,400
 But it is in the lowest portion for family income.

716
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,640
 I don't remember what I did with my numbers.

717
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:51,520
 But also, the average age in this area is something like 89% of the population

718
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,520
 is younger than 35.

719
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,480
 That would not be me.

720
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,040
 But I still ride my bike.

721
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:06,000
 So I think it is really, honestly, time to dedicate the south side of West Hickory

722
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:13,840
 to the bike plan as we intended to do it almost seven years ago

723
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:19,200
 and make that straight shot for the cyclists that we agreed upon.

724
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:28,640
 And just let the market dictate what's going to happen on Fry Street.

725
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:34,560
 But I'm telling you, from my office in the auditorium building,

726
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,520
 people are walking across the street to go to have lunch at Chipotle,

727
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,040
 to go have coffee, to pick up some art supplies.

728
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,640
 They're walking over there.

729
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,320
 Nobody is driving into this area to go and have a pizza

730
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,040
 because there's a lot of options to drive to.

731
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:57,040
 And that's the plan that we promised seven years ago,

732
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,200
 which, as I said, is vetted, vetted, vetted before I got there.

733
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,120
 Patrice Caskey, why do you prefer option two over option one?

734
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,480
 Because of keeping the entire bike lane on the south side.

735
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,800
 A couple years ago, we were going through this a couple years ago,

736
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,280
 and there we had the discussion of,

737
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:25,680
 do we want to take off the parking on the north side versus the south side?

738
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,560
 And at that point two years ago,

739
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,920
 we agreed that the parking would be removed on the south side.

740
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,320
 I guess I'm looking at it.

741
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:34,960
 I'm misreading it.

742
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,920
 I thought the, oh, you're saying the parking change from the, okay.

743
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,680
 Right, well, yeah, so, and, you know, if the bike lane is on the south side,

744
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,320
 then, you know, all the way down Hickory,

745
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,400
 then, you know, starting up on Bonnie Bray south side,

746
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,720
 and then, oops, let's go over to the north side,

747
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:54,560
 and then back over to the south side.

748
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,760
 Oh, I thought the lane was in the same place.

749
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,080
 It was just the difference where the cars are parked between one and two.

750
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:00,800
 It's supposed to.

751
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:01,520
 Am I misunderstanding?

752
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:02,880
 There's a slight shift, though.

753
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,240
 Yeah, there's going to be a shift.

754
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,080
 So, there you go.

755
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,480
 Option one, bike lane is on the south side,

756
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,160
 but it has the parking adjacent to it with that three-foot buffer.

757
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,360
 Let's see.

758
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,880
 Option two, it's still on the south side,

759
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,880
 but the parking is now on the north side.

760
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:30,320
 So, this option has an advantage that the parking is not next to the bike lane.

761
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:31,120
 Yeah.

762
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:36,000
 That's why the option two is more in line with the safety.

763
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,880
 Because of the car doors?

764
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:39,520
 The car doors.

765
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,960
 But it also creates a true protected bike lane, too, right?

766
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,000
 I mean, now we have an actual physical barrier between it.

767
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:53,360
 You have a physical barrier of steel between those moving vehicles and the bicycles.

768
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,440
 Three feet, to me, in this day and age,

769
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,680
 should be pretty darn good to keep the bicycles protected from doors opening,

770
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,520
 and that's on the passenger side as well,

771
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,200
 which doesn't get open nearly as much as being on the other side.

772
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,880
 Driver's side always gets opened.

773
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,960
 Three feet ought to be pretty good,

774
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:15,920
 and the cycles would have a six-foot dedicated space.

775
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:22,400
 Can we put option two forward with the suggestion or recommendation

776
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,800
 of the raised plastic things?

777
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:27,680
 I don't know what they're called.

778
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,920
 Actually, here on the...

779
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,320
 I didn't draw your attention to it earlier, but there are those...

780
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:33,120
 The lineators.

781
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,560
 The lineators, yeah.

782
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,760
 Did you also want the steel curving?

783
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,720
 I think I would prefer that, yeah.

784
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:44,160
 I think any of that really creates more of a clear distinction to cars.

785
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,040
 I think it will add a bit of safety for cyclists.

786
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,120
 And I think getting this...

787
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,080
 I'll just say one last thing.

788
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,080
 I think getting the street right is so good because, again,

789
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,640
 what we're doing is we're in one of the most dense areas,

790
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,880
 really showing cyclists and people who could be cyclists, right,

791
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:59,840
 as Susie pointed out.

792
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,280
 We're working on an infrastructure,

793
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,840
 and so this can be... getting this area right, I think, is so important.

794
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,840
 So I appreciate the options put forward.

795
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,760
 And I also agree.

796
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,080
 I think option two seems like the one that makes the most sense.

797
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:18,080
 I also prefer option two.

798
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,040
 It's, to me, the safest for cyclists.

799
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,400
 Option three is crazy expensive.

800
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,760
 Oh, I'm sorry, Jim.

801
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,040
 I don't have anything to say.

802
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,600
 I think option two...

803
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,520
 They put so much time and effort into the... with these bicycle people.

804
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,120
 Provide a quality product, you know?

805
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,760
 Keep it on the south side and let them go all the way down the road.

806
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,320
 Do we need one more vote?

807
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,240
 Oh, I'm for option two.

808
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:52,160
 I love option three if it could be multi-blocks.

809
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,440
 I like the idea of creating a big environment,

810
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,760
 extended environment that's predominantly focused on pedestrians

811
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,360
 and cyclists and stuff.

812
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:08,320
 But I'm also looking at the cost between option three's quarter of a million dollars

813
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,560
 for one block.

814
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,480
 Yeah, that's just planning level cost.

815
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,640
 We have not gotten into design and actual serving now.

816
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:28,240
 And, no, is the $83,000 figure just planning or is that...?

817
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:33,680
 So that actually would be folded into, since it's just striping,

818
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,040
 most of it will be folded into our streets project.

819
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,040
 Okay, so we're really not raising any... having to expand?

820
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,320
 It's not going to be that expensive of an option.

821
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,040
 And that's the whole reason to bring this item forward,

822
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,280
 is now we're done with the gateway plan.

823
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,800
 The street is almost getting done.

824
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,720
 So we need some direction into how do we move forward?

825
00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:00,800
 And also, as a cyclist, having ridden that street several times,

826
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:06,400
 if you go to option three or something, I'm likely to stay just on the street.

827
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,720
 And I think a lot of cyclists will do the same thing,

828
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:17,600
 is I'm used to riding assertively in traffic, particularly in that area where it's a lower speed.

829
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,680
 Put me on Woodrow?

830
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,640
 No, I'm on the sidewalk.

831
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,400
 But part of it is the cost.

832
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,560
 Part of it is, like Patrice has been saying,

833
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,120
 we've been pushing this bike plan since 2012.

834
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:40,480
 And a lot of our bicycle infrastructure in this town is disconnected.

835
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:48,720
 And we need to start connecting it and making it a viable transportation route.

836
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:55,680
 With all the cost savings on this option,

837
00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:00,720
 maybe we could even paint that mean green bike lane right along that part of it.

838
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,680
 There you go.

839
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,960
 Does anybody want to make a motion for an option

840
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:18,800
 that the Traffic Safety Commission would recommend to City Council?

841
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,480
 I'll make the motion that we approve option two.

842
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:23,280
 I'll second that.

843
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,220
 Okay.

844
00:58:25,220 --> 00:58:28,480
 All right, any discussion?

845
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,280
 All right, we take a vote.

846
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:38,160
 Everyone in favor of recommending option two to City Council, say aye.

847
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:39,060
 Aye.

848
00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:39,840
 Aye.

849
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:40,340
 Opposed?

850
00:58:40,340 --> 00:58:43,280
 That's unanimous.

851
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,360
 Okay, thank you.

852
00:58:45,360 --> 00:59:01,280
 That brings us to item 1C, which is TSC 19-010, which is to receive a report,

853
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:07,200
 hold a discussion, and make recommendation to City Council for restricting on-street parking

854
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,920
 along the north side of Underwood Street between Avenue B and McCormick Street.

855
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,140
 Pretend.

856
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:22,640
 Hi, this is in the same area that we started, and knowing that parking is a real concern,

857
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:31,760
 we're also talking about two things, the width of the street in this particular area.

858
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,400
 This is the segment of Underwood between McCormick and Avenue B that we're focusing on.

859
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,800
 There are a couple things that happened recently when TechStop moved in.

860
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:49,520
 This connection of Underwood that used to connect to the Furniture Road was removed.

861
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,000
 So as you can see, this is a dead-end area.

862
00:59:52,000 --> 01:00:01,760
 This portion between Avenue B and the dead end is already no parking in this particular area.

863
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:08,080
 Currently, the street is 26 feet wide, which means if cars are parked on both sides,

864
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:13,680
 it does not have the required fire lane 20 feet on either side.

865
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:20,400
 So it becomes an extremely narrow segment for any emergency vehicles to pass through.

866
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:30,080
 The way the fire code is written, typically, if it is they require a 20-foot clear segment,

867
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,720
 and then they allocate 6 feet parking.

868
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,520
 So if there is a street segment that's 26 feet wide,

869
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,360
 typically parking should be restricted at a minimum on one side.

870
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:45,840
 If the street is 32 or more feet wide, then you can allow parking on both sides.

871
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:52,720
 This is a perfect space that does not provide for access.

872
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,880
 The other thing that's happening is this fire station is currently

873
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,160
 being remodeled, meaning they're reconstructing accesses.

874
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,240
 They're providing access on Underwood.

875
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,000
 Some of this configuration here is changing.

876
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,160
 McCormick will not go through.

877
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:11,120
 It'll be shut down.

878
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,480
 So this area is taken over by the fire station.

879
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:19,600
 Fire trucks will be in and out of this area, meaning they'll use some of this

880
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:24,400
 to connect north, and they'll have access to this area.

881
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:31,520
 So part of the fire station being remodeled, as well as a concern from

882
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:37,680
 this particular resident/citizen that has business here.

883
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,160
 And Mr. Noll can talk to that.

884
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:41,680
 I think he has a card signed up.

885
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:50,240
 But we are bringing this item forward just for those two reasons, emergency access as well as

886
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:57,520
 safety concerns and even concerns from this business that their access getting through

887
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:04,480
 in between this area is so restricted, now it doesn't connect to the furniture road.

888
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,920
 And there's only one way in and out for this particular parking lot,

889
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,440
 because they have shut down access.

890
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,880
 It used to be used for a cut through between the parking lot.

891
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,520
 So they've shut this down.

892
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,880
 So to access this part, there's only one way in and out.

893
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,240
 So there are two things happening.

894
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,280
 The emergency vehicle access as well as access to the business

895
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,360
 is getting blocked because of parking on either side.

896
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:38,560
 And also, I believe Mr. Noll has been trying to gather support from all these residents.

897
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,520
 He was successful a couple years ago to get signed letters.

898
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,160
 He still has a couple of them already signed.

899
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,720
 They have same concerns, safety concerns, getting in and out.

900
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,040
 Can't really see around the corner.

901
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:50,160
 It's hard to back out.

902
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,880
 So for all these different reasons, staff is recommending that we restrict parking on

903
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,160
 the north side.

904
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,480
 There are several driveways in between.

905
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:05,920
 And then just given that the spacing and the fire or the emergency vehicle access,

906
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:12,400
 which do not exist in this area, staff is recommending that we restrict parking on the north side.

907
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,640
 Any questions?

908
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:17,600
 What's the width of Avenue B?

909
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:22,480
 I think Avenue B, I don't know.

910
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:30,320
 It seems to be a slightly wider street, but people are not parking on the curb.

911
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,080
 So if you can see, I think they're parking in the grass area.

912
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,880
 They're parking outside of the curb area.

913
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:46,160
 So the actual curb to curb is probably within the same 26 feet, around the same size.

914
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:53,440
 But since they have extra space here, the actual width for people to go through exists for a--

915
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:59,280
 But at this time, I think we're just focusing on underwood.

916
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:04,400
 It's just for comparison.

917
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,240
 Yes, all these streets are really narrow.

918
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,480
 I think Margie is the same way.

919
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:11,600
 Fannin is the same way.

920
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:12,880
 They're narrow streets.

921
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:20,800
 I believe long-term, we have to think of what our plan is for this area, especially given the

922
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:28,000
 narrow streets and think about long-term solution as to do we start restricting parking on one side

923
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:40,960
 or what do we do as far as parking, especially during the daytime when the university is functional.

924
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,040
 Do we restrict it in the daytime?

925
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,320
 We don't have a big picture solution at this point.

926
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:52,480
 But given that this fire station is going in, I think this area becomes a key concern on underwood.

927
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,960
 Yes?

928
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,320
 They have to have it because the fire trucks have to make the turn.

929
01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:58,820
 Correct.

930
01:04:58,820 --> 01:05:03,520
 Yes, the fire trucks have to make a turn.

931
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:10,000
 So what we're started working on is at the intersections, we're trying to enforce it better

932
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,720
 and clear it up at the intersection at a minimum so that the fire trucks can turn.

933
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:22,320
 But in between the intersections, if there is little space and they don't really have to deploy

934
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:27,680
 their equipment, then they can, you know, live by or pass by those narrow areas.

935
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:32,000
 Any questions?

936
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:36,960
 Can you clarify for me the entrance to the business on the corner over here?

937
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:37,600
 Yes.

938
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,440
 I couldn't exactly tell where you were saying they're entering that parking lot from.

939
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,880
 So there is-- this parking area was connected.

940
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:53,840
 So what is happening is-- if you go there, I don't think I would be able to-- there we go.

941
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:59,920
 So this-- right now, they're blocking it off with the-- with this car part.

942
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:06,640
 But what was happening is people would enter this drive aisle and drive around to connect to--

943
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:11,200
 I believe it's Collier Street.

944
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:16,800
 So what they're doing is coming up here and they see, oh, it's-- does not get to

945
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:22,480
 the furniture road, then they use the parking area to get to Collier and then to the furniture road.

946
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:28,240
 So that's-- that was happening and that's why they had to put a car there or shut it down.

947
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,800
 Specifically, where's the entrance into that parking lot?

948
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:33,280
 This one?

949
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,480
 I think you can see it once you get down here.

950
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:43,440
 That's-- that's the entrance right here and then you see these are parking spaces.

951
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,760
 And what are they planning on doing with the rest of the street?

952
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,000
 On Underwood?

953
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:49,600
 Mm-hmm. Or on this street here?

954
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,280
 This area?

955
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,320
 Going towards 35.

956
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:57,840
 I do not know what this corner piece is at this time of the week.

957
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,440
 Underwood does not go to the service road anymore, right?

958
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:01,760
 So--

959
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:02,560
 No, it does not.

960
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:03,040
 So it'll be--

961
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:04,880
 Closed off. So are they just going to leave it?

962
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:10,640
 Just, I mean, can-- I'm asking because if it's pretty simple to remove the north side of the

963
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,880
 parking on Underwood, it might be potential to put some parking down there if they're

964
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,120
 not doing anything with it. I mean--

965
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:23,920
 Yeah, I don't-- I'm not sure if the city owns-- if it's not owned by the city, it's not public parking,

966
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:29,520
 which means we don't know if a private developer or whoever owns the land is willing to do that, so.

967
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:30,020
 Okay.

968
01:07:30,020 --> 01:07:31,140
 Thanks.

969
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:41,360
 Okay. Any other questions? I think Mr. Noll's here if you--

970
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,560
 Yes, should we hear from Mr. Noll?

971
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:47,760
 Okay. If you would, please, go to the podium, state your name and your address.

972
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:54,160
 Oh, I need you to-- they make me tell you to speak into the mic. Yeah.

973
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:54,800
 Talk into the mic.

974
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,480
 Ken Noll, 26 Royal Oaks, Denton, Texas.

975
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,560
 And I'm with pre-tem.

976
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,680
 I'm for everything he's for.

977
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,240
 If any of you had some of those other questions, I might be able to re-answer.

978
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,160
 I've been working on this for almost two years, and I want to really thank this individual right

979
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:15,680
 here for taking the time to talk to me. Okay. But anyway, the key problem is--

980
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,920
 How do you-- oh, you're looking at it here.

981
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:27,200
 Is just the safety, and I'm a chiropractor. I have a lot of senior patients. It was ideal,

982
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,960
 of course, when Underwood Street was open, they could just come around the corner and pull in.

983
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,240
 When TechStat did it, they looked at several different-- they talked about putting the

984
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:41,680
 entrance over there off of Avenue B. They talked about opening this back up, but then we checked

985
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,640
 with the city, and there was quite a few accidents with people cutting through, hitting parked cars,

986
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,600
 hitting each other, and so on, back over to Collier, and they asked us to close that off.

987
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:56,640
 So it's been that way since, and so they decided just to leave the entrance where it is.

988
01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:02,640
 This piece of street here is the part that goes into, so they can get in the parking lot.

989
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,480
 Avenue B is just as severe as Underwood. I don't know, Preetem, do you have any--

990
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:09,680
 is anybody-- can we hook this up anyway to the--

991
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,840
 I doubt we can. We don't have the wires now.

992
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,240
 Yeah, we have an interesting video you might find humorous of an individual walking past,

993
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,720
 and we were videotaping the other day the congestion and the cars there on the street.

994
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:30,000
 But the key thing again, of course, and also too from the fire station, they told me unanimously

995
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,560
 they were having a meeting there when I stopped by there again a few days ago, that they would

996
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:39,680
 gladly send a letter too, that they would really appreciate if that could be taken care of with the

997
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:44,160
 parking. Of course, we would have liked to have seen it, no parking on both sides of the street,

998
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:49,360
 but I understand that's not possible, and Preetem pointed out to me the reasons it would be best to

999
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:54,080
 have the north side, which is-- and they do park around the corner here, they park around the corner

1000
01:09:54,080 --> 01:10:02,800
 where the stop sign is there, and Avenue B is just as severe when the parking is even with the dirt

1001
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:08,560
 on the side where they mostly park. And I walk this at least twice a week, maybe three times a week,

1002
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,400
 pick up trash and so on, try and keep it as decent as I can coming in there, because

1003
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:19,600
 like he presented or explained, it is pretty much the main entrance now into my business rather than

1004
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:27,520
 where it used to be over here. Quite a few Medicare patients, and quite honestly we lost a lot of them,

1005
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:31,200
 and they just say, "Hey doc, we love you and been coming for 20 years or whatever, but

1006
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:37,200
 we just can't drive up down this street. People have lost me." I've had a couple hit someone's car,

1007
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,920
 and so of course they're, you know, they don't want to come back. I do have letters here that

1008
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:47,040
 glad for you to see from these two properties. I had them from the whole block here before,

1009
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:52,240
 including the fire station, but I haven't been able to get ahold of the owner of this piece yet.

1010
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:58,080
 These two live there. There's a husband, wife here, and a woman that's in and out quite a bit,

1011
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:02,800
 but I do have letters of support for it and their frustration with it also trying to get in and out

1012
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:09,760
 and things like this. But it's mainly-- and it starts at about 6 30. We open at 7, so I'm there

1013
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:16,800
 at a quarter till 7, and it starts about 6 30 with the parking along there. It's the construction

1014
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:22,880
 workers on that new building on Eagle Drive, and then as the students come they of course fill it in,

1015
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:30,640
 and there's nothing left, and the police come through every, you know, a couple three times

1016
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:36,720
 a month maybe and give tickets and things like that, so then that'll deter it for a while.

1017
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,160
 Of course we have to-- we actually have a tow company. We have signs there,

1018
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,360
 which we also have that problem. They just come and park in our parking lot.

1019
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:51,760
 Any other questions? I perked anything that can be answered or am I done?

1020
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:58,480
 I appreciate you considering it very much. I've been through the whole process and got the

1021
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:04,480
 letters and so on and so on, took them, but Preetem's got me the farthest so far, so I like him a lot.

1022
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:13,520
 We like him, too. Anybody? We like him, too. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much.

1023
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:18,320
 Thank you. As for biking, which was a big topic tonight, of course I'll be honest. I don't see a

1024
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:26,000
 lot of bikes that go down that street. That's a hard one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much,

1025
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:32,800
 all of you, for your time. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any discussion? Where are we falling on this?

1026
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,720
 It seems kind of bad to me. I mean, it's about safety. It's about getting the fire trucks through

1027
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,440
 there. And I think we're going to come back and revisit all these other streets.

1028
01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:55,120
 I'll make a motion. Okay. Make a motion to accept the recommendation. Second. Okay. We have a motion

1029
01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:01,280
 to accept the recommendation. We have a second. Everyone in favor say aye. Aye. Everyone opposed?

1030
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:07,840
 All right. There we have it. Your parking is gone. Okay. Thank you. Yes.

1031
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:28,800
 Thank you. And that brings us to agenda item 1D, TSC 19-011, which is to receive a report,

1032
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:34,320
 hold a discussion, and make a recommendation to City Council for establishing a speed limit

1033
01:13:34,320 --> 01:14:00,640
 along US 377 from FM 1830 to I-35E. So 377 is that section of Fort Worth Drive.

1034
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:09,440
 We're going to talk about this portion from 35E all the way down to where the construction

1035
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:19,200
 limits are. I think it ends at James Street in 1830 coming in. So currently this segment of 377

1036
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:28,000
 between 35 and 1830 is under construction. They began construction early this year,

1037
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:35,520
 I think first week of January is when they kicked it out. Currently they're working on the utilities

1038
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:40,960
 that are outside the right-of-way so there are no impacts to the lanes, but they will be soon

1039
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:49,760
 start working closer to the lane, closer to the traffic. Currently the speed limit south of,

1040
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:57,280
 I want to say south of this particular point right after 35E, it gets to a point where it becomes 50

1041
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:04,400
 and 55 miles an hour as you go south. What was requested, text out requested, that they will be,

1042
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:12,560
 it is under construction, they will be working really close to the lanes and the vehicles that

1043
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:18,960
 will be traveling, and secondly they are thinking of putting in construction barriers that are not

1044
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:25,280
 the high barriers that you see on the freeways, but a lower version of it. I'm not sure if you've

1045
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:33,600
 noticed them, they were on 2181 south of Geyer when they used it in that particular area. So

1046
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:38,560
 they're trying to use lower type of barrier, they wanted to find out what's the best way to

1047
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:45,360
 make it safer for everyone, and they requested that the city during construction for the next

1048
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:53,040
 two years lower the speed limit to 45 miles an hour, which then provides them an option to

1049
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:58,320
 work closer to the vehicles, but have the smaller lower barriers so that

1050
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,760
 cars are not traveling that fast. If cars are traveling over 45 miles they can't really install

1051
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:08,240
 that for safety, they have to install the bigger ones. So that was a request that was made.

1052
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:17,200
 Typically once a road is widened and completed as in the case of 2499, they go back and do a

1053
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:22,160
 speed study again. They're going to do that after the construction is completed for this segment of

1054
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:28,960
 377, and once that happens they'll come back and we'll come back here in front of the committee to

1055
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:35,040
 change the speed limit, but for now we just want to make sure that we're safe and especially in

1056
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:42,160
 the construction zone where there are too many things going on, distractions as well as workers

1057
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:49,920
 too close to these vehicles. We as staff feel and recommend that the speed limit should be

1058
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:56,400
 lowered to 45 miles an hour. That's the recommendation. Let me know if you have any questions.

1059
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:07,440
 It does pick up speed when people go past the railroad track, it does start picking up the

1060
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:14,960
 speed. So past 1830 where it connects it'll still remain the same speed limit because it won't be

1061
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:19,760
 under the construction area. Right about here is where the construction starts. I think it starts

1062
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:27,280
 just a few hundred feet south of the country globe road connection and it's going to be widened to a

1063
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:35,840
 six lane facility. You said it was 50 or 55 currently? Currently it's 50 at one segment and

1064
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:42,800
 then 55 the next. I think it's when you go closer to 1830 it gets to a 55 I think.

1065
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:56,960
 Did you say six lanes? Yeah. Three in each direction? No total, three lanes each direction.

1066
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:03,280
 Yeah this is a bigger segment.

1067
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:13,040
 I already have trouble like if I'm on if I go to the stuff on one side sometimes it's hard for me

1068
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:20,240
 to get back over. So you know I think people go go pretty fast over there. Yeah I think some of

1069
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:29,040
 these streets that come into the town like 2181, 377, 2499 they're all getting upgraded at the same

1070
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:39,280
 time. So these are all large FM roads, state highways. I imagine my surprise that you're

1071
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:46,400
 thinking about lowering a speed limit. It is currently a two lane so I do want to point out

1072
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:51,280
 it has it does have wider shoulders but people use it for the wrong reasons. They

1073
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:58,000
 swerve around to just pass people which shouldn't be and that those wide wider shoulders are going

1074
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,320
 to be taken out as part of the construction. That's where the barriers will be placed

1075
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:10,320
 so there wouldn't be enough room to swerve around. Any questions?

1076
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:18,080
 Okay. Anybody have a recommendation?

1077
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:31,760
 I recommend we go with a recommendation. Okay we have a motion and a second to accept staff's

1078
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:41,120
 recommendation to lower speed limits in this area. Everyone in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay perfect.

1079
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:51,680
 And that brings us to item 1E TSC 19-012 which is to hold a report, receive a report, hold a

1080
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:56,560
 discussion and make a recommendation to City Council for establishing a speed limit along

1081
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:06,320
 Cowling Road from Rector Road to Deer Run Drive. So I'm trying to see if I can find the city

1082
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:16,000
 limits for this particular one. This is the street I'm talking about it is Cowling Road starting at

1083
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:23,840
 Rector and there is a small portion that's within the city limits. Let's see where Deer Run is.

1084
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,280
 Okay right there. So

1085
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:38,720
 from Deer Run all the way to Rector this is the only piece of Cowling Road within the city.

1086
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:48,640
 North and south of it is county areas and if you see it's a fairly rural road that then connects

1087
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:53,840
 and connects to Fifth Street and in this particular in the Sanger area but if you

1088
01:20:53,840 --> 01:21:02,160
 go south it's fairly rural. There is not access points or any driveways or anything going to any

1089
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:08,160
 of these lands until you get really close on this side and once you go north I think the current

1090
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:14,800
 speed limit is 40 miles an hour within the county area. South of Rector it's the same it's 40 miles

1091
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:22,080
 an hour. Since there is no posted speed limit within our city limits currently it is considered

1092
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:29,840
 as a prima facie which means 30 miles an hour which is not posted so when you don't post

1093
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:34,160
 speed limits it's typically considered 30 miles an hour and that's what we're enforcing.

1094
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:44,800
 So what is happening is it's not city PD it's more of the county and DPD enforcing some of

1095
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:50,560
 these rural sections and the way they enforce it since there's nothing posted in the city limits

1096
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:57,040
 then they hold you to 30 miles an hour so we've been receiving many complaints from residents

1097
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:03,440
 that use this on a daily basis that this segment is 40 they travel 40 all of a sudden there is no

1098
01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:10,800
 warning and you enter the city limits and then you once you leave it's back to 40 miles an hour so

1099
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:17,920
 we're trying to you know straighten out some inconsistency make it consistent

1100
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:25,040
 not create speed traps for citizens so on this one we're trying to we're recommending to increase

1101
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:30,480
 the speed limit to 40 miles an hour so you're going to take some revenue away

1102
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:40,000
 it's mostly county but yes that's tricksy yeah it is very tricky

1103
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:49,920
 that's the only situation in the city is that the only situation like this uh that we know of yes

1104
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:57,200
 because there there are so many streets that go weave in and out especially on the fringe that

1105
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:04,080
 we're not really clear does it lie in the city it's outside the city it's in the etj who is

1106
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:12,720
 really controlling it so um we are going to embark on a full speed survey study for uh majority of

1107
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:18,720
 our major streets and highways and arterials throughout the city and as part of that we'll

1108
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:25,680
 clean up any fringe streets that we have as part of that study it doesn't look like there's anything

1109
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:33,280
 to run into is there it looks like it's just like farmland or it it is i mean it's there's not any

1110
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:40,000
 streams even google doesn't go in there it's not like if somebody could like veer off and

1111
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:46,880
 fall into anything no it's pretty straightforward so right after this point it turned into 30 mile an

1112
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:59,360
 hour yeah there's nothing and the width of the lane is consistent yes so the width is consistent

1113
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:08,480
 this pavement is consistent throughout it's a fairly rural section of the roadway so

1114
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:21,040
 it would be fun to see the map with the city limits and the etj yeah let me see if i can pull

1115
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:30,880
 that up

1116
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:56,880
 so

1117
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:14,880
 this is sanger etj

1118
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:26,480
 okay let's etj oh extra territorial jurisdiction

1119
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:34,880
 yeah i don't almost it doesn't on this map it doesn't even show the street it's old

1120
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:53,120
 yeah it's not

1121
01:25:53,120 --> 01:26:07,120
 this one

1122
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:19,120
 off the button

1123
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:31,120
 no i don't think this map really tells you

1124
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:36,640
 okay so it does give a little to the south at least

1125
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:45,680
 is there a bridge over water over there is there a creek over there

1126
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:50,560
 there is a creek i think is it a one lane bridge or is it a two lane bridge it's a two lane bridge

1127
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:50,560
 okay

1128
01:26:50,560 --> 01:27:03,520
 well that was a request mainly for my own amusements though so it would have worked friday

1129
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:16,880
 oh wow so i think so i think we're really talking about this piece that's

1130
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:22,160
 i think we're really talking about this piece that goes through the city

1131
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:30,080
 okay that's really close to the freeway but this is the cowling road that comes in

1132
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,760
 and there's a really small section that goes through the city it's not the whole segment but

1133
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:42,640
 that's where people are getting clipped i didn't i wouldn't say that yeah so this is an area where

1134
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,280
 the city got it it's within city limits

1135
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:52,880
 so county is enforcing it more dpd enforces more than we do

1136
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:06,560
 well i'd say let's uh i make a motion that we have one less speed trap second

1137
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:15,120
 okay we have a motion we have a second to increase that the speed limit and that stretch

1138
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:21,120
 to be consistent with the stretch to the north and to the south everyone in favor aye

1139
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:28,880
 aye and opposed that is nobody excellent moving forward okay that brings us to item 1f

1140
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:40,560
 tsc 19-013 which is our matrix all right so we are trying to knock some of these out um

1141
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:50,960
 more so on the i think the hickory street i'll i'll just quickly go over this i think

1142
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:57,360
 i had said seven o'clock when the roofers can start back so it might start soon but

1143
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:04,720
 quickly going to that hickory uh the wheelchair app we're looking into that um as part of our

1144
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:12,320
 hickory street project so um there there is a driveway that is next to it we might have

1145
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:18,000
 to look it into making it ad compliant for the cross slope so that's something that's

1146
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:25,280
 looked into we don't have a design or we don't have any current funding but we're we're definitely

1147
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:30,080
 it'll be part of our hickory street project station motors that's a little bit more tricky

1148
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:39,760
 i think that whole area is um text dot but good news is text dot has a project up and down

1149
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:45,760
 locust i think they're going to start with locust and then move to elm that they're going to fix

1150
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:52,160
 sidewalks all up and down um elm and locust but the first one is locust and they're going to make

1151
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:58,960
 it ad compliant they're going to have ramps at every crossing that goes parallel to the street

1152
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:04,800
 and they're going to make sure that all their sidewalks are ad compliant meaning there are no

1153
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:12,640
 cross slope issues or no cracking falling and that big project we just recently had a meeting with

1154
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:21,200
 text dot they are working on the design planning design level but i think they intend to spend the

1155
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:29,120
 funds this year to get the street sidewalks completed yeah it was we weren't expecting that

1156
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:34,400
 but that's a good very good thing two quick questions on that do we know aren't we getting

1157
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:39,840
 the troll that back at some point is that in the long term that is a yes the locust and elm term

1158
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:47,600
 back um that is not a whole lot long term but it's about two three years out because if we need to

1159
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:54,560
 get our utilities designed and constructed text dot needs to repave uh the entire segment we're

1160
01:30:54,560 --> 01:31:00,960
 talking from eagle all the way to university and that's not going to happen in the next year so

1161
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:06,640
 it's probably going to take a good two years to get there and after that once it's completely

1162
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:11,520
 reconstructed then we can take over the ownership so then my only other question there is have we

1163
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:16,160
 been able to have any um feedback give them any feedback on for example what the sidewalks look

1164
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:21,440
 like like for me for example it'd be great like if there's a buffer with like you know trees or

1165
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:26,720
 something between the sidewalk and that road is there any discussion around that there is a

1166
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:34,400
 schematic level i can find the maps for you but um we don't have the plans it's text on consultant

1167
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:41,520
 and text art is running that project so we can definitely request maps and we can bring it forward

1168
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:49,200
 yeah it'll be yeah they're they're trying to see within their existing right of way really old

1169
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:54,240
 area some of them they don't even know if they have right of way so they they're trying to fit

1170
01:31:54,240 --> 01:32:01,040
 in uh a sidewalk that is consistent and goes across but there might be some places that they'll

1171
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:06,640
 have to really work with the property owners to make it 88 compliant but definitely i guess long

1172
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:10,000
 term the bigger reason i ask that is we wouldn't want them to do something we don't like and then

1173
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:21,600
 have to redo it ourselves and take yes so agreed um so we talked about the bike lanes on hickory at

1174
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:32,880
 length today all right and then yes this uh pd uh reports or collision we are asking the questions

1175
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:39,840
 and we started meeting pd regularly um it is a lot of data to mine as far as understanding

1176
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:47,760
 okay um how many involved pedestrians and what can we do um what type of accidents so we're

1177
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:54,720
 currently uh sort of short staff to do the data mining that is really needed to get these reports

1178
01:32:54,720 --> 01:33:02,160
 to a point where you know it's more um presentable digestible in form of numbers and quick figures

1179
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:08,000
 and simple area maps that show you these are the top locations and these are the number one issues

1180
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:14,000
 and this is how we can fix it um that's why it's taking a little bit longer but we intend to bring

1181
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:20,880
 this back in april with the report that has at least a year full of collision data the top 10

1182
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:27,440
 locations and what are the issues what can we do what can we look into yeah it just seems to me

1183
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:34,960
 that we should be able to do something because we have a crime map yes i can go and see what was

1184
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:40,560
 happening on my street or something you know and i think we should be able to have at least that

1185
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:47,600
 type of viewpoint yes and i i do agree to that end we also started working with gis to put some gis

1186
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:53,760
 maps together for the same reason where we want to put out more traffic information as far as

1187
01:33:53,760 --> 01:34:00,080
 traffic counts our signal location pedestrian crossings all the information related information

1188
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:06,480
 needs to be interactive where people can see it we're slowly getting there we were one person

1189
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:14,080
 department now we have some more people still we're making an effort to create some of these

1190
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:22,400
 smaller item as projects and get them done in the next month few months uh

1191
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:31,440
 yes new street is something that we will be bringing back uh next month i think uh there were

1192
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:39,760
 the item was presented to the tiff board there were some um concepts that they wanted to look

1193
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:45,680
 further they wanted to look at other alternatives so uh our project manager is currently working

1194
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:50,880
 with consultant to create more alternatives and look into the options but we'll bring that item

1195
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:58,240
 also um next month right and there was also an online survey right correct we did has that closed

1196
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:06,160
 yet it was closed yes it was for a week or week and a half i think it was closed yes

1197
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:16,640
 and then yes we're looking for design and funding for this uh ad ramp on elm across the state it

1198
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:24,560
 might be part of the um textile project once they go in since it's textile right away

1199
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:35,680
 any other more items yes sir you dropped me from the list oh we didn't want to do that i'm hurt

1200
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:40,880
 where's my white stripe on welsh an eagle

1201
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:50,240
 that needs to be here and let's get that on um sorry about that

1202
01:35:50,240 --> 01:36:00,560
 i won't put that

1203
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:10,480
 okay does anybody else have anything to add to the matrix i had if i could go back one to the

1204
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:16,080
 locust so how far down does that go does that go all the way up to the loop are they looking to add

1205
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:22,400
 sidewalks all the way out like i forgot what so the limits are between eagle and university drive 380

1206
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:30,640
 okay okay all right those are the limits and those limits that they intend to turn back

1207
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:38,480
 at a sooner rather than later so in the next three years they'll be turning it back but

1208
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:46,640
 text dot has shown has wanted us to take over all the way to where it goes to 35 in the north side

1209
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:54,720
 so us 77 all the way to curbs and goes north they have asked us to see if the city can take that

1210
01:36:54,720 --> 01:37:01,200
 portion as well and the portion of dallas drive on the south all the way to 35e do we want those

1211
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:07,680
 parts we're we're thinking about it what are the pros and cons and what condition is it in

1212
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:13,520
 and how do we want to long term because what has happened that that used to be the primary highway

1213
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:18,720
 that went through the city and now it's no longer a highway it's more of a city street that goes

1214
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:26,080
 through our downtown area so we're better off having it that's we're looking into the added

1215
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:31,440
 sections but right now we're pretty sure that between eagle and university drive that's the

1216
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:37,200
 portion that will be coming back to us good to know i just live on that side of town and i know

1217
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:46,320
 that there's sometimes people outside north branch library um there's if you go far enough down

1218
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:54,000
 there's not sidewalks so i've seen people walk along the highway before that stretch so i was

1219
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:59,360
 curious how far it went just in case if they were going to put in oh that would be nice okay so i'm

1220
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:06,800
 asking do you have one item i'm not sure this isn't this may not be a matrix item this may be

1221
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:11,360
 something else but i was wondering if it was possible to get a report on these two sections

1222
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:16,400
 i brought them up the last couple i think meetings and i've been kind of in continual

1223
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:23,040
 conversations with citizens including suzy over here and keely briggs and jord hudspeth about

1224
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:28,480
 what we can do in the the two areas i'm concerned about are carol between mulberry and oak and bell

1225
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:34,160
 between mulberry and mckinney essentially i see those as turning into increasingly urban areas

1226
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:40,240
 you know changes in the amount of housing is creating uh you know more walkers and cyclists

1227
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:48,080
 sorry carol between mulberry and oak and these are just my the areas i from being in you know

1228
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:53,680
 um pedestrian and cyclists in that area the areas that i i think require but i could be it could be

1229
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:58,080
 more than that or less those would be good discussions and then bell between mulberry and

1230
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:03,520
 mckinney okay so i see those areas as urbanizing in different ways and so an example would be

1231
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:09,600
 armadillo opening um which is the coffee shop in the morning and the and the place and you know my

1232
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:14,640
 we live in h squared where pizza snob is and my wife walked out mulberry the other day and we just

1233
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,560
 right when she got there she's like i felt like my life was in danger the entire walk and we're

1234
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:23,040
 talking like four blocks now i know some of that is already being addressed a little bit potentially

1235
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:28,400
 with the muse plan and so part of that will hopefully get done but um bell's scary you know

1236
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:33,200
 and if you come off mulberry like you can walk to those intersections but most people don't do it

1237
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:37,040
 just because they're out of the way and those intersections don't feel safe either so like i

1238
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:40,800
 think there's a if they like felt like they were really great intersections i think people would

1239
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:44,880
 consider but a lot of people are just crossing in those cars if you go go stand there sometime

1240
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:49,360
 right if you stand at armadillo they come flying around the corner and you see them and it's not

1241
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:54,720
 so i think there's just potential there and then i've brought up the stuff on carol so my my request

1242
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:59,040
 is is would it be possible for us to put together some kind of report about what kind of options we

1243
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:07,040
 have on arterials for making them safer and just so we can look at options and start considering them

1244
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:12,720
 from small from short term to long term so you're talking about uh i'm trying to understand this

1245
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:19,520
 you're talking about walking along arterials or you talk about crossing arterials i'd say both

1246
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:24,640
 ways to just make the whole street now the cross is an important part of that for sure

1247
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:29,600
 but also um you know and i know some of the things again would be long term like the sidewalks that

1248
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:34,880
 where you're walking you know inches from cars going 35 40 miles per hour is obviously a problem

1249
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:40,800
 but in some spots that's going to take a longer term planning but i'm also interested in short term

1250
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:47,120
 you know slow uh you know measures to slow cars i think there's a variety of options out there

1251
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:52,400
 and and when i've talked to gerard and keely they've encouraged me to try to see if we can

1252
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:56,240
 get some kind of report and discussion going um because i don't know all the answers but i

1253
01:40:56,240 --> 01:40:59,760
 certainly just would like to learn more and figure out what is possible in those two areas

1254
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:08,080
 yeah and i have to second that you know um what is now the twice as nice and what's the coffee shop

1255
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:16,880
 zero yeah and zero coffee that used to be um a garden center it was a feed uh feed and seed

1256
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:22,640
 sales spot which of course would have yeah heart pools was there so it used to be you know track

1257
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:30,320
 heavy truck traffic right there but now we have apartments just you know a block away from that

1258
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:39,200
 so as we increase again residential density in that downtown area what we are accustomed to

1259
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:48,480
 like if you've lived in denton 10 20 or 30 and longer um what was 40 years ago is no longer

1260
01:41:48,480 --> 01:41:55,280
 but we really kind of built our infrastructure as though that was going to continue that we were

1261
01:41:55,280 --> 01:42:01,760
 always going to have a seed company on the corner of mckinney and bell but i think that's something

1262
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:08,400
 that we really really have to start you know recognizing that the more beating hearts we put

1263
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:15,280
 in an area the more we have to slow down traffic the more we have to increase bike infrastructure

1264
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:20,400
 make pedestrians feel safer because all those beating hearts can't get into an internal

1265
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:27,840
 combustion engine car so i think it's the best with easy the simplest way i put it is hickory is

1266
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:32,160
 is going to define denton's core you know if we can make hickory a great street i mean because

1267
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:36,800
 that cuts right through everything if we can make hickory it gets you right to our huge investment

1268
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:41,120
 we've made in dcta right like that's a massive investment and i don't think we're getting enough

1269
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:46,000
 out of it right now um and i think part of that is is walkability even though it's only a block

1270
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:51,360
 away the the psychological and physical barrier bell it's just i think more people it's off their

1271
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:56,320
 radar so i think as we continue to think about that if we can make hickory a great urban street

1272
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:02,320
 i think we can change denton and make it the you know premier smaller town and this whole you know

1273
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:07,280
 dfw metroplex i think we already are there in some ways but i think we can continue that's that's our

1274
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:12,000
 strength as a city in my opinion it's not razor ranch and other areas that you could have anywhere

1275
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:17,520
 you could build those areas anywhere what we have on hey along hickory is a university s square and

1276
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:21,520
 it's really unique so i'm just i'm excited about it i love what's there but i think it can turn into

1277
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:29,360
 something really incredible so i think part of the answer is our master thoroughfare plan we're

1278
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:34,320
 gonna start defining how our cross sections are gonna play out and some of the discussion in that

1279
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:41,680
 will be our are these streets that used to be arterials can can they still continue being that

1280
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:48,480
 but at the same time have some other characteristics as far as um you know the required pedestrian

1281
01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:55,920
 improvements can there be other options to calm traffic down in between uh not with signals but

1282
01:43:55,920 --> 01:44:02,400
 something else so we're it could be a starting point where we start talking about the

1283
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:12,000
 complete street segments for some of these arterials would that also include the locust

1284
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:19,520
 that comes in yes elman locust will definitely be one of our top ones because we're currently

1285
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:27,760
 working on several drainage projects that will lift that whole area out of the strong water or

1286
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:35,920
 floodplain and once that happens the whole land will be redeveloped pretty soon of short notice

1287
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:42,160
 so we need to be prepared for what are what is our next step how do we put infrastructure on

1288
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:49,760
 locust and elm especially between eagle and the square at this point well i guess they'd also just

1289
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:55,120
 think about like so when you get when you go to the loop you can get to the loop because i live on

1290
01:44:55,120 --> 01:45:00,320
 that side of town you can get there through locust you can go down sherman and there's houses being

1291
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:07,600
 built on the other side of the loop now so as a bicyclist i think to myself if anybody lived over

1292
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:16,160
 there how are they how would they get into town but they would have to use one of the you know

1293
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:23,600
 i wouldn't i would not get on the loop on my bike i would not do that sherman i've done it

1294
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:29,520
 but i mean how are you i just don't see that anybody out there is going to be able to get

1295
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:34,080
 into town from there well you do what one of my friends does it lives in south ridge and he

1296
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:41,040
 bicycles to u and t and he takes t's lee he has to take t's lee oh my gosh wow okay

1297
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:46,960
 that's rough i'm not sure there are many parts of t's lee i would also not get on on my bike

1298
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:50,400
 he's in that two percent yes

1299
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:58,880
 does anybody have anything else that you want to add to pre-tem's matrix

1300
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:10,080
 i'm wondering they're gone they're tired of us i'm wondering it's been a couple

1301
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:15,040
 years or at least a year and a half since we have had a joint traffic safety mobility committee

1302
01:46:15,040 --> 01:46:21,680
 meeting um i don't know do we have things that we would like to talk about with the commission

1303
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:28,160
 and the mobility committee did you know we can start thinking in that direction we can say that

1304
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:34,880
 we're going to bring it back next month but the next two to three months we can definitely have

1305
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:40,480
 a joint meeting i mean if there's if there are things that you think we should kind of put our

1306
01:46:40,480 --> 01:46:46,960
 heads together um you know we've done that before we'll definitely look into that okay

1307
01:46:49,680 --> 01:47:00,960
 okay if you have nothing else motion to adjourn hi jim's ready to go and we have a second so it is

1308
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:08,240
 7 19 and we'll see you next week or next next month next month i'm so excited i want to see

1309
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:10,640
 y'all next week next week