WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.280
 Good afternoon, and welcome to this extra meeting of the Mobility Committee of the City of Denton.

00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.680
 Seeing that we have a quorum, we will convene.

00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:18.880
 It is about 2.01 here at City Hall, and as a first item, this is kind of new,

00:00:18.880 --> 00:00:24.840
 but we have a blue card, a citizen wishing to speak on a couple of items for individual consideration.

00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:32.040
 Apparently, as chair, I can make the call to permit public comments,

00:00:32.040 --> 00:00:37.360
 but I'm going to ask for input from other committee members.

00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:40.600
 Is that acceptable to you if I include public comment?

00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:47.200
 Timing-wise, the comment should come, in my opinion, after the presentation and before we do deliberation.

00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.760
 I agree with that. Are you agreeable?

00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:53.280
 Okay. So we're going to allow that.

00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:58.080
 Our first item is item A, consider the approval of the Mobility Committee of the Denton City Council

00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:01.280
 meeting minutes of January 8th. I'll entertain a motion.

00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:02.320
 So moved.

00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:03.200
 Second.

00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.360
 Okay. And I don't believe we need a vote on minutes.

00:01:06.360 --> 00:01:11.160
 And then we'll move on to item B, receive a report, hold a discussion,

00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:21.600
 and provide staff direction regarding the regulation of motorized electric scooters on city rights of way.

00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:24.000
 Hi, everyone. My name is Mark Oliphant.

00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:27.840
 I'm the Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the City of Denton,

00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:33.520
 here to discuss electric scooters and how they can be regulated on city rights of way.

00:01:33.520 --> 00:01:39.320
 We have discussed this a little bit in the past, so I won't go into the same detail that I have in the past,

00:01:39.320 --> 00:01:46.800
 but just in general, a lot of other cities in Texas and throughout the United States are having these shared electric scooters,

00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:50.360
 and they're having different experiences with them.

00:01:50.360 --> 00:01:53.000
 They can be rented out using apps.

00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.240
 There are different sizes of scooters.

00:01:56.240 --> 00:02:02.080
 Some can be bought privately, like from amazon.com or something like that on the left.

00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:04.200
 These are very similar to those that are rented.

00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.320
 They cost about $500 on amazon.com.

00:02:08.320 --> 00:02:11.680
 On the right is the little red scooter.

00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.600
 That one is typically children and things like that.

00:02:14.600 --> 00:02:15.720
 That's a good size for them.

00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:17.560
 It's about 100 watts.

00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:25.240
 The others of these tend to have motors that are about 250 watts or greater.

00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:29.400
 So these services are very similar to Bike Share.

00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:36.480
 We have a Bike Share currently in the city, and that preceded these probably by about 10 years in the United States.

00:02:36.480 --> 00:02:42.680
 Just a quick comparison of benefits and drawbacks from using these e-scooters.

00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.760
 Some of the benefits are that they can replace short car trips.

00:02:46.760 --> 00:02:50.440
 It tends to be about one mile is the typical distance.

00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:54.920
 They're simple, they're accessible, they're affordable, environmentally friendly.

00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:58.720
 They've shown to be much more popular than Bike Share, actually.

00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:05.160
 We've heard up to 10 times more demand, more popularity, and they have a smaller footprint than Bike Share.

00:03:05.160 --> 00:03:06.640
 Now, some drawbacks.

00:03:06.640 --> 00:03:08.560
 There are some safety concerns.

00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.280
 Some ways the jury is still out on that a little bit.

00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:20.280
 But we've actually, just in the last few days since we turned in our readaheads for this, we've actually gotten two reports,

00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:27.000
 one from Journal of the American Medical Association and one from Portland, Oregon.

00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.000
 They did a 128 pilot, which I'll talk about.

00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:36.200
 Here, for now, the universities are not really interested, and that's a big thing we need to look at.

00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:44.920
 Best practices, these are so new that we don't really have good best practices yet as far as managing them and so forth.

00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:52.240
 And then just general questions about where can they be parked and ridden and things like that, which have to be.

00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:57.240
 We talked about this a little bit at the last presentation, so safety is a big issue.

00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:07.920
 These are just articles we pulled from national news outlets about some of the concerns about safety to Slidesworth.

00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:12.040
 And these articles keep coming.

00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:15.280
 So here's some interesting information about Portland.

00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:24.320
 They did a 120-day pilot report, which was just released, I think, last week, and just some of the data about it.

00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:33.360
 So in those 120 days, they had 700,000 trips covering 800,000 miles, so just a little over one mile per trip.

00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.280
 And that was on 2,000 scooters that were in the fleet throughout the city.

00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:44.840
 Now, just to compare with Denton, that's a city of about 650,000, and I think we're 150,000, 160,000.

00:04:44.840 --> 00:05:00.280
 But so interestingly, if you look at this, during that 120 days, there were only 176 visits to ERs and we call those other things urgent cares.

00:05:00.280 --> 00:05:11.680
 And so just stats on that, so that's one ER or urgent care visit per 4,500 miles of travel, or one ER visit per 4,000 trips.

00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:19.560
 Which I wonder if scooters are getting a bad rap because they are so

00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:25.720
 heavily used that the numbers skew upward, but that you actually have a lot more trips going on.

00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:35.360
 So I don't know that on a per trip basis or a per mile basis it's been established that they are that much more dangerous than other modes.

00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:39.680
 Talk about, we've seen this slide too, just what some of the other cities are doing.

00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:44.160
 In Dallas, they're all over the place right now, but Fort Worth doesn't do them.

00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.960
 Waco has also chosen not to do scooters for now.

00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:52.760
 And a reminder about what our powers are here.

00:05:52.760 --> 00:06:04.720
 Under the Texas transportation code, the city has the choice to prohibit or not these types of scooters.

00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:06.960
 That's the red type there.

00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:12.600
 So yourselves within the city council, this is within your power to decide whether or

00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:17.440
 not you want these operating within the city of Denton.

00:06:17.440 --> 00:06:24.080
 Currently, they kind of fall into a gray area, can they be considered a toy device?

00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:28.720
 Right now, the only place you could definitively say you can't have that is on the square,

00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.960
 where we have the prohibition on roller skates and bicycles and so forth.

00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:40.480
 So some of the options here, we have a spectrum of options of things to do.

00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:46.600
 When we were here a few weeks ago, we proposed a full prohibition for

00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:51.800
 now between transportation staff and legal staff talking it over.

00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:57.240
 That's the easiest from our perspective, but I know there was some hesitation about that.

00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.000
 So I'm going to talk about some other options that we've discussed since that time.

00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.640
 So there could be a partial ban there in the middle.

00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:10.520
 We could fully allow them, and then at the bottom, maybe just table it for

00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:15.000
 a couple of months because the current bike share authorization,

00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:21.960
 that does not, it will expire at the end of May unless action's taken.

00:07:21.960 --> 00:07:25.160
 And so it will need to be considered in the next three or four months here.

00:07:26.440 --> 00:07:33.480
 So major concerns though, really just the two things that stand out, or the two universities,

00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.240
 don't act like they're ready, although I will say I was on UNT yesterday.

00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.880
 And within the first five minutes, I encountered two electric vehicles, one a small bicycle and

00:07:41.880 --> 00:07:44.120
 one a scooter, which aren't supposed to be there.

00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:48.440
 But in many ways, I think this might be a tidal wave that is coming.

00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:57.360
 And just that they are so new that there's not a really good standard of practice out there

00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.120
 that we can just draw upon as far as operating hours or regulation, things like that.

00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.840
 But with this new information, literally in the last week,

00:08:06.840 --> 00:08:11.280
 Portland and American Medical Associates have released some information.

00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:14.200
 So what are possible actions?

00:08:14.200 --> 00:08:19.080
 We proposed complete ban there at the top originally, but so some others.

00:08:19.080 --> 00:08:26.240
 Banning shared scooter services only, our legal advisors were a little bit leery

00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:32.000
 to go that direction because we allow shared bikes.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.440
 And operators may come to us and say, well, what's the difference or we're going to sue you?

00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:40.080
 Why are you discriminating against the scooters versus the bikes?

00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:46.680
 I think arguments can be made though about safety and so forth, but that was a worry.

00:08:46.680 --> 00:08:50.080
 Another one is banning scooters with certain motor sizes.

00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.640
 I think there was some thought here, well, what if a kid got one for Christmas or something?

00:08:54.640 --> 00:09:01.800
 And 250 seems to be the turning point with the large professional scooters.

00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:07.960
 Being a 250 or above, or professional, well, adult for real use.

00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:15.400
 And whereas the toys tend to be smaller than that, so there could be some kind of a prohibition that says 249 or below is okay.

00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:18.360
 250 and above is not.

00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:20.720
 >> I've got a question, Councilmember Briggs.

00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:28.120
 >> What are the wattage of most of the scooter services?

00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:34.680
 >> Most seem to be 250, right at 250, the ones, the lime and bird.

00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:42.160
 >> Well, because you mentioned earlier the toy ones are about 100, and so from 100 to 250, that's kind of a lot, so.

00:09:42.160 --> 00:09:43.160
 >> Yeah, yeah.

00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:54.920
 >> I mean, and the toy ones are maybe for up to 120 pounds or something, whereas the others, I think, are about 250 pounds, something like that, that we can accommodate.

00:09:54.920 --> 00:10:03.680
 >> My original concern and the message I sent after the meeting was mostly specifically banning children's toys, so that-

00:10:03.680 --> 00:10:04.680
 >> Not wanting to.

00:10:04.680 --> 00:10:06.240
 >> Not wanting to, yes.

00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.160
 So I'm glad that this is back for more discussion.

00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:13.280
 >> I don't know about the 250, I'll have to think about that.

00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:18.280
 >> Okay, yeah, and then, of course, there could be, yeah.

00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:22.840
 >> It's kind of a question of whether or not it was discussed to see these options up there.

00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.960
 But banning on arterial collector, everything except for residential,

00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:34.440
 because that's going to still allow the children to be out in the street in front of their houses in a cul-de-sac, that type of an area.

00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:41.160
 But it's not going to encourage any shared scooter services to come into town,

00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:46.880
 because who's going to want to put something that can only be driven on a residential-rated street?

00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:50.480
 >> That's an interesting, yeah, Pritam, you want to?

00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:57.680
 >> Yeah, I think that can be an option that we can look into, because certainly,

00:10:57.680 --> 00:11:04.960
 they cannot use any portion of some of these arterial connectors that are long-distance connectors.

00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:11.800
 For example, between the University of UNT and downtown square, we have Hickory and Oak, which are arterials.

00:11:11.800 --> 00:11:16.160
 And if we ban them, then there are very few residential streets that directly connect.

00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:18.720
 So you have to get onto an arterial to connect.

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.880
 So that is a possibility.

00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:26.480
 But also, within residential streets, there might be an issue of, do we even have sidewalks?

00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.880
 And if we don't, then where do children play?

00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:33.640
 So, then we open up a whole other discussion about that component.

00:11:33.640 --> 00:11:37.200
 >> Just to think about.

00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:45.280
 >> Well, what is state law for scooters that are 100 watts?

00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:52.360
 Because, I mean, we don't have sidewalks in a lot of areas, but we allow our children to ride the bikes.

00:11:52.360 --> 00:12:00.400
 Parents, normally, more likely to have insurance, you're going to have a level of safety with helmets and things.

00:12:00.400 --> 00:12:03.920
 >> Right. >> And personal responsibility on a more personal level.

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:09.200
 And if you own your own scooter, then you would if you're just renting one for a mile.

00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:15.080
 >> Mm-hm, so this is the excerpt that we pulled.

00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:17.560
 I know we looked at this, I looked at this with legal.

00:12:17.560 --> 00:12:27.600
 I don't recall any any discussion of wattage of the motors.

00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:36.400
 I mean, and I think like for motorized, like gasoline internal combustion engines, there's like a 49 CC.

00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:42.560
 And I don't know if at some point so many watts of a motor becomes that or something, but unless.

00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:50.880
 >> So if you go to the next slide, I think the section 18-13 says vehicles and

00:12:50.880 --> 00:12:54.520
 toy devices are prohibited down sidewalks, especially in downtown.

00:12:54.520 --> 00:12:59.040
 But also, they're not allowed on the roadways, except for crosswalks.

00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:04.800
 So they're irrespective of if your toy device or

00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:10.400
 skateboard or roller board, they're not allowed on city streets currently.

00:13:10.400 --> 00:13:11.800
 >> So I just want to make sure I understand.

00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:18.900
 >> So in this rubric, you could use a toy vehicle on a sidewalk.

00:13:18.900 --> 00:13:24.480
 If you live in a neighborhood that doesn't have sidewalks, that's it.

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.840
 >> Yes, I mean, you can't be riding on the streets.

00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:32.120
 >> I do want to add this, I talked to the city prosecutor about this issue.

00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:37.280
 She informed me that technically a child under ten cannot be given a ticket.

00:13:37.280 --> 00:13:41.280
 So whether that is a transportation ticket or a city ordinance ticket,

00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.880
 they're not allowed to ticket a child under ten because they don't have the culpability that would be necessary.

00:13:45.880 --> 00:13:51.880
 She said further, while city ordinances, it would be ten, you could be ticketed ten and up.

00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:55.000
 Said most of the time, an officer won't ticket a ten-year-old.

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.960
 If they're doing something dangerous, they'll probably just call the parents.

00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:03.120
 But you can't receive a traffic citation until you're at least 14 years of age.

00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:08.240
 So some of these on the major streets, if they're impeding traffic, something like that, that could be considered a traffic ticket.

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.560
 And if they're under the age of 14, they could technically not be ticketed for that either.

00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:13.060
 >> Okay.

00:14:13.060 --> 00:14:15.480
 >> So I wanted to pass that along.

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:15.980
 >> Yeah.

00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:25.720
 >> How do you feel about getting through the rest of the presentation, hearing the citizen comment, and then continue deliberation?

00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:26.840
 >> Okay. >> I think that's it.

00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.000
 >> So, yeah, those are the option.

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.200
 Allowing them is an option.

00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:40.640
 >> And then finally, table it, wait until May when the bike share is going to be reconsidered and

00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:47.520
 potentially wrap it up into all one package or something like that, and I think, yeah, that's it.

00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:50.400
 >> Okay, I'm going to follow what I just said.

00:14:50.400 --> 00:14:51.920
 Thank you, we do have a blue card.

00:14:51.920 --> 00:15:02.840
 Clay Thurman, if you want to come to the mic, let's try for three minutes and just state your name.

00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:03.640
 >> I may be able to do that.

00:15:03.640 --> 00:15:06.840
 Clay Thurman, 1524 Snyder, Denton.

00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:14.160
 And I'm on the Traffic Safety Commission, and this was a very conflicted vote to put this before the council.

00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:20.040
 And when this was given to us, there were only an up or down option.

00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:21.800
 So I'm glad to see that there's more options.

00:15:21.800 --> 00:15:28.360
 I did vote in favor of it because I was concerned about the bike share and

00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:31.600
 much of your presentation is oriented toward the bike share.

00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.320
 My reservation, which I harbor to this day, and I'm still conflicted over that vote,

00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:45.080
 is I'm concerned about the personal liberty of individuals and citizens to be out there and doing this.

00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:50.920
 I understand trying to hold off to get it wrapped up with bike share or something, which I think is a good idea.

00:15:50.920 --> 00:15:58.920
 But I'm concerned about the personal liberty of individual citizens, and that's my main thing right there.

00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:04.360
 As far as the city holding off on bike share, forbidding it for

00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:10.480
 bike share, contingent upon wrapping it up into the bike share program, I think that's okay.

00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:15.280
 We actually would have preferred that a moratorium be put out,

00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:20.800
 which is what our preferred language was, but that was not an option at that time.

00:16:20.800 --> 00:16:28.200
 >> I'm not sure I understand how moratorium fits with particularly the personal liberty concern.

00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.480
 >> Well, the moratorium on bike share services, scooter share, thank you.

00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.680
 >> Moratorium on services, but a lot of individuals.

00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:41.920
 >> Right, but I think it's something that you do need to put in to the bike share, and

00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:47.680
 I think getting that completed when it comes up in May would be a good idea.

00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:51.400
 But again, personal liberty is one of my concerns.

00:16:51.400 --> 00:16:52.160
 >> Thank you.

00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:53.680
 >> I'm glad to see that kids won't be ticketed.

00:16:53.680 --> 00:16:59.840
 >> Because I'm sure there's a lot of parents that bought some things at Christmas that are going to be rather ticked.

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:04.640
 When they find that it's now illegal for their kids to be out there on that.

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.640
 >> I don't want to see a rash of crimes executed with nine year olds.

00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:12.480
 >> Right, right, and I really don't see this as being much of an enforcement issue anyway.

00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.960
 >> So, okay.

00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.800
 >> Thank you, I have a question.

00:17:18.800 --> 00:17:23.800
 So if we take no action, what is the status quo?

00:17:23.800 --> 00:17:28.240
 What's true between now and May?

00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:34.600
 >> My understanding is that under current statute or ordinance, there is nothing that expressly prohibits and

00:17:34.600 --> 00:17:40.120
 there is nothing that expressly enables scooter share.

00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:45.000
 I know we have had some inquiries and we said, yeah, we talked about that and we don't want that.

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.040
 Which was accurate.

00:17:46.040 --> 00:17:56.840
 It may not be on the books, but the initial feedback from speaking to council about this was that, well, we're not ready for this yet.

00:17:56.840 --> 00:18:06.360
 So if tomorrow, line came and dropped off scooters in the square, I don't know what our recourse would be.

00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:15.400
 >> Yeah, so since you're already seeing scooters popping up and you know there's interest in other cities,

00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.080
 you'll probably have to have a position one way or another.

00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:18.720
 >> Great.

00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.520
 >> That's just my opinion.

00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:25.120
 Is that your hand raised or no?

00:18:25.120 --> 00:18:26.120
 Okay.

00:18:26.120 --> 00:18:28.120
 >> Oh, I thought you.

00:18:28.120 --> 00:18:30.680
 >> I felt energy come in this way.

00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.880
 >> Wow, it's a problem.

00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:41.840
 You know, as Mr. Oliphant was mentioning, you know, we would not have a recourse, but it would be very similar to what we experienced last year with, was it V-Bikes?

00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:42.440
 >> V-Bikes.

00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.640
 >> V-Bikes, when they showed up on the square one day and there was a stack of them.

00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:53.800
 And so we worked with the company to make sure that they would keep them in sort of an orderly fashion.

00:18:53.800 --> 00:18:59.560
 But it was problematic, because on a windy day, they'd be knocked over, they'd be all over the square.

00:18:59.560 --> 00:19:03.880
 We still have probably 20 or 30 at the service center that have yet to be retrieved,

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:12.080
 that have been found in trees or bushes or middle of ditches and lakes or ponds in the city.

00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:21.640
 So it is a problem, and whether it's a moratorium or we wait until the end of May, we're still about four months.

00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:31.160
 And we get sort of the information that we're getting on this bike share and then bring that item back to council to talk about the policy from both perspectives.

00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:38.240
 You know, we're just kind of, at this point, just kind of taking our chances.

00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:43.840
 But I will say, the entity or entities that have reached out to our office,

00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:49.640
 they've at least called to inquire about what they would need to do to come into the city, as opposed to showing up.

00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:52.280
 And I would hope that they would continue to do that.

00:19:52.280 --> 00:19:57.440
 And our message has been that our city council has given instructions to not allow it,

00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.720
 but there's nothing on the books that keep from preventing it as well.

00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:07.320
 >> Let me see if we can take this a chunk at a time.

00:20:07.320 --> 00:20:14.600
 On the shared programs, I think the consensus, correct me if you don't agree,

00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:19.960
 is we're taking your guidance that kind of the data's not fully in yet on safety.

00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:25.560
 So we don't want to do it now, but we want to be able to look at it again at some future point and reassess.

00:20:25.560 --> 00:20:32.120
 So is May a point at which we will actually know enough, or does that just happen to line up with bike share?

00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:34.600
 >> Well, I think some things could happen between now and then.

00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:41.400
 I have not had the chance to read all the way through the Portland report, or the JAMA report.

00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:46.080
 I know that the bike share provider for UNT and for the city,

00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:49.400
 the currently permitted one that's working well, they'll ride.

00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:56.920
 They do have aspirations to bring in electric bicycles, potentially, and scooters.

00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.840
 And I know they need to talk to the universities about that.

00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:07.480
 So I think some important conversations could go on in the next three or four months about this.

00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.960
 And perhaps the universities could change their minds, or

00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:16.920
 could at least become more educated about them, and so forth.

00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:21.040
 So I think a number of things could happen, actually, between now and then.

00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:26.080
 I'm told also Vail Ride has a prototype of the scooter, and I've said, hey, bring that by.

00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:29.360
 Let's see what that might look like, you know?

00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:33.080
 So we're all just, we're all learning about this, and-

00:21:33.080 --> 00:21:34.520
 >> Council Member Brooks.

00:21:34.520 --> 00:21:39.880
 >> So for legal, the difference between a temporary ban and a moratorium, isn't it the same thing?

00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:43.120
 I mean, and if you have a moratorium, do you have to have an end date?

00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:48.600
 I mean, because what if, for some reason, we weren't ready in May, would we be required to discuss it?

00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:51.360
 If we weren't ready yet with the scooters, the scooter share?

00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:56.560
 >> Technically, it's going to end up being the same, it's going to be the same effect either way you go.

00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:02.960
 It's that you're going to have to come back for council action to do something to change whatever your original decision is.

00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:08.280
 If you want to call that a moratorium, or if you want to call that a temporary prohibition,

00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:15.960
 either way, even if you don't use the word temporary, it's going to be that because council can decide to come back and change its mind later.

00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:20.680
 So if we call this a prohibition on electric scooters now, and just put that in the books,

00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:24.840
 y'all can come back in May, you can come back in October, you can come back whenever,

00:22:24.840 --> 00:22:29.800
 you can decide that you're going to amend that prohibition, and you can put in, change it either.

00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:34.520
 At that point, it would, I mean, you can have this entire discussion over again at that point.

00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:38.240
 You don't have to change just part of it, you can change the whole thing at that time.

00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.560
 >> Everything is temporary.

00:22:39.560 --> 00:22:40.280
 >> Right, exactly.

00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:41.240
 >> In life, okay.

00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:42.640
 >> Turn, turn, turn.

00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:48.240
 >> Yeah, so I would entertain just as taking this a piece of time.

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.760
 To me, that sounds rushed, maybe we'll know some things, maybe we won't.

00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:59.400
 The inclination on the fleet thing is, give us a year, look at it again in a year.

00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:06.400
 And I don't care what you call it, I don't mind saying explicitly that it's a one year thing,

00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.280
 to set expectations for industry that we're going to look at it again.

00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:19.800
 But to say a one year moratorium pending what we learned about safety from experiences in other cities.

00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:23.360
 Anything?

00:23:23.360 --> 00:23:24.200
 >> I would agree.

00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:34.560
 Some of the data that's on the Portland slide, if you can bring that up on the number of visits to emergency rooms and urgent care.

00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:40.160
 Without having anything to compare, what does the bike share have in that?

00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:46.320
 It's impossible to know, is that high, is that normal, is that low, is it, where does that really sit?

00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:50.480
 It's just a set of numbers, but it's not usable data.

00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:55.440
 >> That may be in the report, I just didn't have the time to read it.

00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:04.920
 >> Of those 176 trips, how many of those were actual, the shared scooters, and how many were personal owned?

00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:09.800
 That's another part of the data that I would like to see, to have a better feel for what this is.

00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:13.120
 Because I would think that if you personally own it, you are going to have that helmet.

00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:23.240
 You are going to be, you're going to use it with a little bit more, I don't know what word I want to use.

00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:24.360
 >> Discretion.

00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:26.400
 >> Yes, safety minded.

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:31.640
 And so I think really, the moratorium is about safety.

00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:37.160
 I'd also like to know, we know Portland is 650 and we're 150.

00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:42.360
 Okay, we know our OCI on our streets is 65, what's their OCI?

00:24:42.360 --> 00:24:46.840
 Because the street conditions, that much better up there.

00:24:46.840 --> 00:24:52.200
 That can be a huge difference on what the safety factor is.

00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.320
 >> And how do you feel about a year?

00:24:55.320 --> 00:25:00.120
 And I want to ask Council Member Briggs that question as well.

00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:01.720
 >> I'm fine with a year.

00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:06.680
 I think we do need to bring something forward as quickly as possible to council.

00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.760
 Just to make sure that we don't have somebody come in in the dark of night.

00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:14.920
 >> Yeah, and Council Member Briggs, what's your thoughts on that?

00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:20.120
 >> I'm good with a moratorium or prohibition on the shared scooter services.

00:25:20.120 --> 00:25:28.520
 I'm not particularly, I mean, having the time limit in there isn't one year or

00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:35.000
 whatever isn't particularly important to me because it could be less than a year if more data comes or

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.720
 if someone approaches us or if UNT decides to come to us.

00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:43.880
 I mean, I guess if you have a year, then that doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait a year, right?

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:45.280
 I mean, you could come back earlier.

00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:46.360
 >> You can always change anything.

00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:50.960
 >> Okay, right, well, I just wanted to make sure that we weren't saying, well, you know.

00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:52.200
 >> Yeah, just hard press.

00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:54.880
 >> Well, we're binding ourselves to one year.

00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.120
 >> But we have the key and-

00:25:56.120 --> 00:25:57.480
 >> Right, well, yeah, okay.

00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:04.880
 And so, and I just want to say too that there's other cities that originally probably started with a ban and

00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.360
 then did the studies and came out and then said, okay, well, this is what we need.

00:26:08.360 --> 00:26:12.280
 This is how we're going to approach it with policy and procedure.

00:26:12.280 --> 00:26:16.200
 And so we were just at that stage where we need more data, we need to figure it out.

00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:25.800
 So having this temporary ban or prohibition doesn't necessarily mean that our city is adamantly against them and will never allow them.

00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:29.000
 Just wanted to go on record saying that for those out there.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.960
 >> And I think we're all in that place.

00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:36.120
 So is that enough direction on that piece of it, the fleet?

00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:40.840
 >> And then I want to talk about the individually owned scooters, right?

00:26:40.840 --> 00:26:43.440
 That's the thornier one, potentially.

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.320
 >> And I'm not terribly familiar with the mobility committee, so do you-

00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:49.440
 >> We make recommendations to council, right?

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:57.320
 >> Yeah, I mean, do you go through Robert's Rules of Order right now to say, let's, or I don't have any consensus.

00:26:57.320 --> 00:26:59.240
 >> We're asked to provide staff direction.

00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:01.720
 >> Okay. >> So it's not a formal vote.

00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:08.000
 So it's just staff direction, and consensus of the group was to, of the committee, was to move forward with X.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.080
 And so we'll stick that forward.

00:27:09.080 --> 00:27:14.440
 >> To move forward with the ban for a period of time might be a year, but

00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:20.360
 it's until we are satisfied that we know enough about safety and

00:27:20.360 --> 00:27:25.240
 about the comparability of other studies so that we can make a different determination.

00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.880
 >> And specifically ban the shared services.

00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.840
 >> And then I want to then take up, as a kind of separate item,

00:27:31.840 --> 00:27:37.120
 how do we want to approach the Christmas gift issue, right, the toy issue.

00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:38.120
 Because we've got a few ways to go.

00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:47.880
 There's wattage, there's certain streets, there's, what were the other attributes?

00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.360
 >> Yeah, certain streets.

00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:55.840
 >> Or just universal, and there's, well, we've already learned.

00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:59.760
 We can't go without sidewalks.

00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:09.040
 So, I think the cleanest thing is a ban's a ban.

00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:14.480
 But I sense some interest in, well, certainly in the part of the speaker we had,

00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.840
 but some interest in protecting the rights of individual Christmas gift recipients.

00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:27.600
 Because having heard all the options, does anyone else have a leaning?

00:28:27.600 --> 00:28:33.040
 I mean, I'll offer one if I, you know, if no one else will.

00:28:33.040 --> 00:28:38.320
 >> I'm for option two or three,

00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:44.240
 with motor sizes smaller than allowing scooters 200 or less.

00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:51.400
 I don't, I think if you, but then I don't know how that affects the shared scooter.

00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.520
 So I think whatever we need, we need to make sure that it does say shared scooters.

00:28:55.520 --> 00:29:00.760
 >> Well, I think we've already established ban on the fleets, and we're, you know.

00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:05.280
 >> Well then, I would think that individual ones would just be allowed then,

00:29:05.280 --> 00:29:08.040
 because they're not shared fleets.

00:29:08.040 --> 00:29:14.560
 >> That's a position, I mean, my inclination is both to ban the 250 watts and

00:29:14.560 --> 00:29:19.880
 the arterials, you know, use on arterials.

00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.160
 >> I think it's already in our ordinance, it says that.

00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.880
 So, I mean, we don't really need to create something that we already have that's existing.

00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.560
 >> Is that right?

00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:34.600
 Because it's suggested here as a possible action, so I figured it was a possible action.

00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:38.400
 >> So within our code, yes, it does allow ban of any vehicles or

00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:43.760
 toy devices along city streets, except while crossing them.

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.840
 >> So, Chair, maybe our option is to redo the ordinance and

00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:55.160
 allow them to be on residential streets and change it.

00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:55.920
 Is that what you're saying?

00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:01.400
 >> Well, I'm not sure I'm clear on what Preeten just said.

00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.000
 You're saying it allows an ordinance.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.680
 >> So can you, Mark, can you go back to the slides, 18-11?

00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:14.960
 So that's the ordinance that bans roller skate, toy devices.

00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:16.440
 >> Toys aren't allowed on the road.

00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.240
 >> Exactly.

00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:22.720
 >> All right, so, but we haven't yet said that we want to

00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.840
 ban individual ownership of scooters that are not toys, right?

00:30:28.840 --> 00:30:33.880
 So, for individual use.

00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.760
 >> Well, at which wattage does it turn into not a toy anymore?

00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:41.280
 >> I don't think there's a firm.

00:30:41.280 --> 00:30:45.280
 >> So, I mean, you can't really say that it's either all or

00:30:45.280 --> 00:30:50.040
 nothing, really, right, unless we specify the wattage.

00:30:50.040 --> 00:30:57.520
 >> Yes, that's why I'm, what I'm suggesting, which I don't think is said now,

00:30:57.520 --> 00:31:04.040
 is that no use of 250 watts or

00:31:04.040 --> 00:31:12.560
 greater is permitted on our right of ways.

00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:18.600
 And I do take your point that the ones that are below 250 can't go on the roads anyway.

00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:25.440
 So in that case, I guess what I'm really saying, I don't remember which option it was.

00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:33.000
 But I suppose it's just the third item,

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:39.120
 the third option in addition to the bike share plan, then.

00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:44.600
 >> My personal inclination is just to do the temporary moratorium or

00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:49.600
 ban on the shared scooter services and leave everything else alone for now.

00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:51.120
 >> John?

00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:52.760
 >> Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:31:52.760 --> 00:31:56.560
 I think we might want to take a closer look at 18-11,

00:31:56.560 --> 00:32:00.720
 if there's something that we want to make some changes on at some point.

00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:10.600
 Cuz one question I've got is, are they Segway, the little foot pedal deals?

00:32:10.600 --> 00:32:11.360
 How do those fall in?

00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:13.440
 Are those actually an electric scooter?

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:15.680
 >> They're a toy device.

00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:16.760
 They're motorized.

00:32:16.760 --> 00:32:22.960
 They definitely have small motors, at least the ones you see the kids riding around.

00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:26.320
 I think it goes right along with roller skates, toy device.

00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:31.920
 >> Yeah, but they're an electric as opposed to roller skates or skateboards or not.

00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:38.120
 Just so that we're not, I don't know what size motor they have.

00:32:38.120 --> 00:32:43.520
 So if they're motorized and we ban 250 and they're normally a 300 or something,

00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:47.420
 I don't know where that sets, cuz you- >> I think they're pretty small.

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.560
 But we could look into that, you know, hover boards, is that what they call them?

00:32:51.560 --> 00:32:54.560
 >> Yeah, those little there, you just stand up on.

00:32:54.560 --> 00:32:57.320
 >> It's the two wheels of the platform, yeah.

00:32:57.320 --> 00:33:01.440
 >> But your inclination was in general just to do the, to catch on fleets?

00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:06.200
 >> Yes, well, I think we need to take a closer look at the rest.

00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:10.560
 But I think it's not a single issue type item.

00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:14.000
 I think it's we need to look at the overall safety, look at some data,

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:20.720
 see if somebody's done similar to that Portland report on other items to do that comparison.

00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:25.200
 Is that something we want to put in our mobility plan that they're allowed on,

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.840
 you know, in bike lanes but not in the share row?

00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:32.760
 >> Yeah, those types of things that we might want to look at.

00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:37.160
 >> Let's look at all the other kind of chickens and ducks in some future session.

00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.000
 But I think you've got consensus then as far as taking direction.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.880
 And, you know, I recognize that we're, you know,

00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:50.400
 that we've heard a potential legal risk that you might get challenged on that.

00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.440
 And, you know, we're, we think that, you know, I think implicitly,

00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.640
 we're saying we think you've got enough to work with.

00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.760
 But they're different enough from bikes, you know, that we're confident in you.

00:34:00.760 --> 00:34:07.640
 With the record shows, addressing legal, all right?

00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.840
 >> So just to be sure, just so there's clarity.

00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:15.520
 So approximately one year moratorium on these could be sooner.

00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:19.920
 But just based on just additional study data, whether it's here in Denton or

00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.800
 on the state or on the region or on the country, as we get more information.

00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:29.520
 But to prohibit temporary prohibition of the scooter share companies from

00:34:29.520 --> 00:34:33.720
 being permitted to allow to set up shop here within city limits.

00:34:33.720 --> 00:34:36.040
 And again, there's no intention of.

00:34:36.040 --> 00:34:37.080
 >> It's not forever.

00:34:37.080 --> 00:34:41.200
 >> Of siding or penalizing kids or

00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:45.040
 children that are using their personal devices and are on the streets, correct?

00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:46.360
 >> Yes, that's right.

00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:51.080
 All right, so I'm going to, let's just say, anyone else has anything else to add?

00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:56.000
 I'm going to close that item, and we'll move on to item C.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:01.320
 So we're going to receive a report, hold the discussion, and provide staff direction regarding.

00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.480
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.080
 >> Oh, okay, yeah, we're going to.

00:35:06.080 --> 00:35:12.080
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

00:35:12.080 --> 00:35:18.080
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

00:35:18.080 --> 00:35:21.040
 >> Yeah, you missed the preamble.

00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:25.960
 >> So I'll just repeat for the benefit of the late comers that we discovered that

00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.880
 it turns out the chair has discretion about allowing individual comment.

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:38.320
 And all our committee members are in support of allowing comment on individual items.

00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.760
 We're going to go with a three minute limit.

00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:46.200
 We'll have the presentation first, then we'll take blue cards, and then we'll have deliberation.

00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:51.680
 So moving on to item C, receive a report, hold the discussion, and provide staff direction

00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:56.440
 regarding bicycle lanes on West Hickory Street between Avenue B and Welch Streets.

00:35:56.440 --> 00:36:09.400
 >> Okay, well, Mark Oliphant again, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator, thank you for your time.

00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:17.480
 We're going to discuss bicycle lanes on Hickory Street between Bonnie Bray/I-35 and Carroll Street.

00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:24.240
 Hickory is being repaved right now, block by block.

00:36:24.240 --> 00:36:28.440
 And the next section to be repaved is really what we're looking at.

00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:30.880
 This has been discussed for a number of years.

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.840
 There's been a lot of discussion back and forth, a lot of good ideas.

00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.480
 I'm not sure there's anything that will make everyone happy, but

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:46.640
 hopefully we can discuss some of the positives and negatives of the different options that we have here.

00:36:46.640 --> 00:36:50.240
 These are just some pictures to familiarize you with that area.

00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:57.040
 There are some bars, there are restaurants, coffee shops, it's next to the UNT campus.

00:36:57.040 --> 00:37:02.280
 I'm going to skip this one, and I'm going to talk about this first.

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:08.680
 So in the current pedestrian and bicycle plan for the city it does call for

00:37:08.680 --> 00:37:13.800
 bike lanes from, let's see,

00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:20.040
 from Welch to Carroll, Texas Boulevard, Avenue C to Welch.

00:37:20.040 --> 00:37:23.320
 And then I-35 to Texas Boulevard.

00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:30.200
 It got a little in the printouts, I think that didn't come through very well.

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:38.160
 And the Oak Gateway area plan has also discussed this matter and it has sort of two options.

00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:42.720
 Originally it was create a contiguous bike lane along Hickory Street.

00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:50.680
 Although later, after some other discussion, they added some other caveats or

00:37:50.680 --> 00:37:55.880
 I don't know what you'd say.

00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:57.840
 Yeah, some details to that.

00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.360
 So one interesting thing that we did look at is as part of the study,

00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:09.880
 we mounted a camera for about a week on Hickory Street to see what parking patterns were.

00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.000
 Because that's a big question here, is what we're looking at is we're moving on street parking,

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:18.800
 which has implications, and we wanted to know what happened with the parking.

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.000
 And generally, it seems during the day,

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:27.040
 during the week when school is in session, people park and they go to UNT.

00:38:27.040 --> 00:38:33.400
 But during other times during the evening, they do go to the local businesses and so forth.

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:37.760
 So the parking is used for both purposes.

00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:43.920
 So we went out, this was discussed back in 2017.

00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:50.040
 And direction was given to engineering to go and get some more options and

00:38:50.040 --> 00:38:54.480
 get some professional opinions about what we can do here.

00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.720
 So we went out and we got a consultant named Ulta Planning and Design, which is very well known nationwide,

00:38:59.720 --> 00:39:02.920
 especially for pedestrian and bicycle planning.

00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:06.040
 And we came up with these five different options.

00:39:06.040 --> 00:39:09.080
 And so I'm just going to talk you through those a little bit.

00:39:09.080 --> 00:39:13.960
 This is like a master comparison list of what we get with each.

00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:18.640
 Some we lose spaces, some we lose a lot of spaces,

00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:23.120
 some we don't lose any at all, but there are other considerations.

00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:26.000
 So let's get into number one.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:34.000
 This one provides a parking protected bike lane on the south side of Hickory Street.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:38.480
 So just to orient you in the top left there, that's the CVS Pharmacy.

00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.160
 And then you have Avenue B.

00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:46.600
 And prior to that, you don't have parking on the south side of Hickory Street.

00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:52.840
 And what this would do is it would eliminate the parking on the north side, but retain parking on the south side.

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:58.280
 The parked cars would act as a barrier between the moving vehicles and the bicycles.

00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.840
 That's that block.

00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:08.240
 On the next block, so we come up, here's where Avenue A Fry and Hickory intersect.

00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:13.520
 They, your bike lane continues.

00:40:13.520 --> 00:40:17.800
 And then we switch so that the parking is on the north side here.

00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:22.680
 And you don't have the parking protection, but you do have sort of a buffer.

00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:30.440
 There are about two feet between bike lane, two feet, and then vehicle lane to protect riders.

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:35.960
 And then here at Welch, it transitions into just the regular

00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:40.840
 bike lane that's planned for most of the rest of the route.

00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:42.400
 So that's option one.

00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:46.240
 Option one is from a engineering, from a safety and

00:40:46.240 --> 00:40:52.440
 traffic circulation standpoint that engineering likes.

00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:56.000
 Option two is not terribly different.

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.920
 Instead, we do have a bike lane.

00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:03.280
 It is buffered, not protected by parking on the south side.

00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.920
 So again, there's your CVS at the top left, just to orient you.

00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:09.760
 And we retain the parking on the north side.

00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:15.120
 An advantage there is the parking is closer to the businesses that it's intended for.

00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.920
 UNT doesn't really have an interest in maintaining parking for them along there.

00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.880
 It's the businesses that want and need that parking.

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:34.440
 So this is fairly similar to one, it's just where the parking is on Hickory Street.

00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:38.280
 So you continue along, and you still have that buffer.

00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:42.040
 This buffer is slightly wider, two foot to three and a half foot.

00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:47.520
 Sort of the street isn't uniformly wide along there, but that's about what you get.

00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:51.040
 And so your bicycles stay on that right side.

00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:57.360
 Here at Avenue A and Fry, one thing we do watch out for is we have what's called a bike box.

00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.400
 Which is that green thing there.

00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:03.120
 And that allows so that at a stop light or something,

00:42:03.120 --> 00:42:08.840
 bikes can get in front of vehicles so that they don't turn right in front of them.

00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:13.280
 South down onto Avenue A.

00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.640
 And that's actually a busy corridor right now for DCTA buses.

00:42:16.640 --> 00:42:19.520
 I believe it's route 8 that makes that right turn.

00:42:19.520 --> 00:42:20.560
 Yes, sir.

00:42:20.560 --> 00:42:21.440
 >> Why is that?

00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:22.320
 They don't stop there.

00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.720
 >> That's a good question.

00:42:24.720 --> 00:42:26.240
 >> Okay.

00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:31.080
 >> So I can quickly answer.

00:42:31.080 --> 00:42:38.760
 I think there is a, for this particular one, there are signals at this intersection and the next.

00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:44.760
 So for the Fry Street signal, typically you want the bicyclists to be visible and

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:51.040
 not on the far right behind, a lot of times there are parked cars next to the bike lanes.

00:42:51.040 --> 00:42:55.760
 So if you're hiding or not visible, someone that wants to make a right turn lane,

00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.120
 you can easily get trapped with the right lane hook for vehicles.

00:43:00.120 --> 00:43:02.680
 That's the reason to get them in front of everyone.

00:43:02.680 --> 00:43:09.720
 >> I got that. My question was why does DCTA go through it busily when they don't stop there?

00:43:12.120 --> 00:43:14.720
 >> You can ask that question, but I think that's one of their routes.

00:43:14.720 --> 00:43:19.320
 >> Yeah, the turn at Welch is kind of tight, but I don't know.

00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:25.480
 There may be one when it gets down onto Mulberry there, but not 100% sure.

00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:26.880
 >> Okay, we don't know.

00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.560
 >> Yeah, yeah, we can get back to you with it.

00:43:29.560 --> 00:43:34.640
 And then here it joins, so we end the two block section at Welch Street.

00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:38.760
 Again, we have the box because there is a light there and you just want to watch out for

00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:43.560
 any vehicles that might accidentally turn right or even moving bicycles.

00:43:43.560 --> 00:43:50.720
 I mean, the real danger is when the light is not red and a bicycle and a vehicle are moving in parallel.

00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:58.000
 And if that vehicle doesn't, or they overcome the bicycle, forget they're there and then turn right and the bike can run into it.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:06.240
 But this is a state of the practice feature that was recommended by ALTA.

00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:09.800
 On to option three, so option three is the most,

00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:14.440
 we move the most concrete and the most equipments involved and everything.

00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:18.800
 And this one brings the bike lane entirely off of the pavement.

00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:23.440
 Currently, there's about an eight foot sidewalk on the south side of Hickory for

00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.880
 that first block, which heavily used by pedestrians.

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:31.440
 And the idea here is that space would be turned into a bike lane and

00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:35.280
 we would extend the sidewalk into the UNT campus.

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.600
 But that requires a few things.

00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:43.880
 There's a retaining wall there, there are trees, the land belongs to UNT.

00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:47.600
 So there would be a lot involved there.

00:44:47.600 --> 00:44:53.760
 In a number of places, these things do work though, having a separated bike boulevard or something is a good idea.

00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.400
 >> Question, Council Member Briggs.

00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:57.280
 >> So this is my choice.

00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.760
 >> Okay. >> Actually.

00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:04.720
 And I'm curious if you've talked to UNT before you put this out as an option or if you just said-

00:45:04.720 --> 00:45:09.200
 >> Yeah, so we had a conversation with the business owners,

00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:13.240
 Bright Street business owners and UNT did participate.

00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:16.320
 I mean, they did not say, absolutely not, this can't work.

00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:18.880
 They said, well, you know, maybe we can talk about this.

00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:26.280
 And we haven't pursued it further and that was their transportation representative.

00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:31.440
 So I don't know if it would be a slightly different master planning office within UNT.

00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:38.080
 But I know they're dedicated to the safety of their employees and students and they would be using it.

00:45:38.080 --> 00:45:42.000
 So I think it's within the realm of the possible.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.800
 That is the, yeah, that's the feedback that we got from that.

00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:55.240
 There are a few concerns that pedestrians, maybe say you park your car on the south side of the street and get out.

00:45:55.240 --> 00:46:00.360
 You need to go toward UNT while you would be crossing that bike lane to get onto the sidewalk.

00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:05.960
 But these sorts of things do work well in a lot of different cities throughout the country and the world.

00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:14.720
 On the next block here, so it would need to rejoin the street when you get to the end of that block.

00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:24.680
 And there are concerns there from the cyclists about returning to the street and vehicles not seeing them or again, vehicles turning right.

00:46:24.680 --> 00:46:28.840
 If you're coming from the other side of parked cars like this and

00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:33.960
 vehicles are moving like this and want to turn right or something, there's some potential there.

00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:39.560
 Now, if you really want to get crazy, one idea has been floated about closing off,

00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:45.800
 closing this off here potentially, and that could solve some problems.

00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:52.160
 I mean, we may be getting away from what you challenged us to do with this study.

00:46:52.160 --> 00:46:56.000
 But that idea has been floated, so there won't be any-

00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:57.240
 >> I'm sorry, why is that crazy?

00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:00.640
 >> It's just a lot more money.

00:47:00.640 --> 00:47:10.160
 I mean, we were just tasked with, let's get some bike lanes along here and we're sort of changing the infrastructure of the area, but maybe not.

00:47:10.160 --> 00:47:13.800
 I mean, I think it has some merits.

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:20.480
 If we did that, you could turn this into a cul-de-sac, vehicles could circle around.

00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:25.840
 So they could come in, they could access Welch to Mulberry Avenue A, and turn around.

00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:35.960
 The consultant did even look at the possibility of continuing this along here.

00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:40.160
 You would need to move some light poles.

00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:46.840
 You would have bicycles moving right in front of the bars where people tend to congregate.

00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:51.040
 So we're a little more leery there.

00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:56.080
 People wouldn't be paying attention or slightly inebriated or something like that.

00:47:56.080 --> 00:48:00.400
 So it could be even squeezed in there further along.

00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.280
 So there's a lot of possibilities there.

00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:13.480
 I know too though, they're getting ready to lay these sidewalks and repave all of this.

00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:19.640
 So we'd need to push the crews and

00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:24.280
 let them know if this really is the preference of the city council.

00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:28.960
 It has many, many benefits.

00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:30.680
 Here, finally, come back to Welch.

00:48:30.680 --> 00:48:36.280
 So it could, for

00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:41.720
 the whole block from Avenue A to Welch, be off of the street.

00:48:41.720 --> 00:48:48.520
 This is easy, this last little piece, because you didn't have to move light poles.

00:48:48.520 --> 00:48:52.320
 And you wouldn't be in front of the bars, at least, running into people.

00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:56.840
 But having your riders off the road, back onto the road,

00:48:56.840 --> 00:49:04.280
 off the road again, all within a 1200 foot length is not really preferable.

00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.960
 So that's option three.

00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:14.400
 Option four, I hope you don't love it, because engineering hates it.

00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:19.680
 But we did want to at least show this to you, that this is possible.

00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:26.400
 That you save everything and you go down to one travel lane.

00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:35.640
 But this is a secondary arterial road, carries a lot of traffic east-west, and we discourage this.

00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:41.440
 There are also deliveries along here, where you have delivery trucks and so forth.

00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:49.640
 But it saves all the parking, and the bicycles get their protected lane, but we don't recommend it.

00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:51.600
 We do.

00:49:51.600 --> 00:49:54.240
 >> And I'm glad that you put it in here, because I did send an email.

00:49:54.240 --> 00:49:56.640
 Why don't we go down to one lane?

00:49:56.640 --> 00:50:00.080
 Because right now- >> Do you feel fully supported in this?

00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:03.240
 >> Yes, now I don't.

00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:08.800
 I'm of course not an engineer, but with traffic and the construction being the way that it is,

00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:15.520
 everyone now is actually going into one lane, and that's the way that the traffic is moving.

00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:21.760
 And for me, personally, if we want to make this a walkable safe area,

00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:26.280
 the less traffic moving and the more we're looking out, the better.

00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:33.480
 And so that's why, I mean, it just kind of was a natural progression, and it seemed to work just fine.

00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:39.960
 And you're only looking for one moving car, whether people are walking around you or pulling out or parking.

00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.560
 So it seemed good to me.

00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:50.640
 >> Yeah, I think the two lanes currently often do function as one lane,

00:50:50.640 --> 00:50:57.680
 because you have tractor trailers pulled over to unload and maybe utility work in the street.

00:50:57.680 --> 00:51:06.480
 And so I think two lanes providing you one is like the best you can do from this.

00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:12.200
 Whereas if you just had the one lane and someone stops to parallel park,

00:51:12.200 --> 00:51:14.960
 you can just really pretend you want to.

00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:25.920
 >> Yeah, that's good, no, you don't have to explain to me why not, but just on the calmness of it, it seemed to make sense.

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:32.800
 >> I do want to point out at the meeting that we had with the businesses around,

00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:39.000
 one of the things that they did raise that may not be a good alternative for them as well.

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:47.080
 Just given that if this area is congested and backed up, a lot less people will show up in the area or avoid the area.

00:51:47.080 --> 00:51:53.120
 That's more detriment than having an area that traffic flows, and you can actually move through the area.

00:51:53.120 --> 00:52:00.120
 >> Quick question, probably for Preetam directly.

00:52:00.120 --> 00:52:07.280
 Just an idea, but like on the corner of Avenue A where we're concerned,

00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:10.480
 we're talking about the possibility of shutting that off.

00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:15.480
 Is there any areas of the country that maybe use a flashing arrow for the right turn?

00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:21.880
 We're using flashing yellow for left turns throughout the city now.

00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:27.080
 Have a flashing arrow for the right turn with a picture of a cautioned bicycle above it,

00:52:27.080 --> 00:52:30.960
 so that people know when they approach that corner to keep an eye out?

00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:36.160
 >> Yeah, I think there is a flashing yield sign, it could be a ball too, but that's a possibility.

00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:42.080
 We can come up with something that anyone that approaches that intersection could be a yield.

00:52:42.080 --> 00:52:49.760
 And if we're actually shutting down one leg, we can even look into if the signal is warranted,

00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:54.560
 if there is no cross traffic that's going through the signal on Fryan Avenue A.

00:52:54.560 --> 00:52:57.680
 If it's lower, then we'll have to redesign that.

00:52:57.680 --> 00:53:05.880
 If signal is not warranted, if we shut that approach, then it might function slightly different.

00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:13.440
 But I would want to point out that DCTA route that goes through there actually takes Mulberry

00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:16.480
 on the other side of the campus, if you go to the map.

00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:19.480
 There is a drop off next to one of their buildings.

00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:23.840
 It goes on Hickory for a little bit and again goes down on Mulberry.

00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:27.840
 So there are two drop offs or bus stops on either side which are really,

00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:36.040
 I think they're closer to the buildings and help, one is next to the arts building.

00:53:36.040 --> 00:53:40.840
 Zoom out a little bit, it'll show you the bus stops.

00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:46.280
 >> Let's see, here's Avenue A.

00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:50.600
 >> Yeah, there's one and then on the left side there's Avenue B.

00:53:50.600 --> 00:53:51.240
 >> Oh yeah, right there.

00:53:51.240 --> 00:53:57.000
 >> So those two are the ones, but they have to use that jog to get through to that area

00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:59.960
 and that's why those DCTA buses move in that direction.

00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:01.840
 >> So they come clockwise, right?

00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:02.680
 >> Correct.

00:54:02.680 --> 00:54:05.080
 It will impact their service.

00:54:05.080 --> 00:54:10.920
 I'm not sure what their ridership is and how they function, but this is pretty strong route

00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:15.040
 for them, especially given that these bus stops are really close to the buildings

00:54:15.040 --> 00:54:17.800
 where they actually have a lot of students going.

00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:19.520
 >> Yeah, but they don't have a stop there.

00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:25.960
 So it's still, there's no compelling reason that's been expressed yet why they do that,

00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:29.480
 but you know, whatever, maybe there is one.

00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:34.280
 >> So there is need or there are a lot of people getting off of next to these buildings

00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.200
 and these buses run from the field.

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:38.720
 >> But they don't stop there.

00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:39.960
 >> They do stop then.

00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.520
 >> The people are there, but the people didn't get on the bus there.

00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:44.320
 You understand?

00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:46.280
 The bus doesn't stop in that--

00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:48.040
 >> On Hickory, it doesn't, no.

00:54:48.040 --> 00:54:52.720
 >> No, but it doesn't stop on Fry to Mulberry, as far as I know.

00:54:52.720 --> 00:54:53.760
 You haven't told me otherwise.

00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:54.440
 >> Oh, here's--

00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:55.480
 >> There's a bus stop right there.

00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:56.440
 >> Oh, on Mulberry, okay.

00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:58.560
 >> Okay, so there are two bus stops on either side

00:54:58.560 --> 00:54:59.840
 and that's the middle route.

00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:00.520
 >> Okay.

00:55:00.520 --> 00:55:00.960
 >> Yeah.

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:01.320
 >> That's--

00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:01.600
 >> Okay, that's--

00:55:01.600 --> 00:55:02.800
 >> That's the answer, isn't it?

00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:03.760
 >> Mm-hmm, okay.

00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:08.960
 >> So let me go back.

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:14.800
 So that's option four.

00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.040
 Now, option five, this is where we got really creative.

00:55:18.040 --> 00:55:20.920
 We call this the calm street option, but you may have also heard the--

00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:22.440
 >> You say creative like it's a bad thing.

00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:22.840
 >> Huh?

00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:24.360
 >> You say creative like it's a bad thing.

00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:26.160
 >> Right, yeah.

00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:27.440
 I'm glad to hear that from you.

00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:31.360
 Please send-- I like creative and if leadership likes creative, let's--

00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:31.840
 >> Okay.

00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:32.600
 >> Let's do that.

00:55:32.600 --> 00:55:37.920
 So the calm street, AKA Woonerf inspired.

00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:40.720
 So that term was thrown around.

00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:45.600
 A Woonerf is usually a residential street that has a very shared feel to it.

00:55:45.600 --> 00:55:48.360
 Vehicles do not automatically have right of way.

00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:49.880
 People can cross it.

00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.240
 They don't have to go to the crosswalk and so forth.

00:55:52.240 --> 00:55:56.960
 So for the calm street, what we're thinking about here is the nature

00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:03.560
 of Hickory is such that from Bonnie Bray to Avenue B, it's largely housing.

00:56:03.560 --> 00:56:06.920
 There's some university buildings next to it,

00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:11.440
 but then suddenly the character of the road changes a great deal.

00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:16.320
 You have these small businesses, coffee shops, bookstores, restaurants,

00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:20.160
 heavy pedestrian traffic, the bars.

00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:26.080
 And so you really come to a node part way through Hickory Street

00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:29.000
 and maybe a node should be treated differently

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:32.120
 than the other parts of Hickory Street.

00:56:32.120 --> 00:56:38.720
 So what the thought was was could we use some physical infrastructure

00:56:38.720 --> 00:56:43.040
 to essentially force motor vehicles to slow down.

00:56:43.040 --> 00:56:48.920
 I'll tell you right now, a lot of Hickory that hasn't been repaved actually does this.

00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:55.840
 If you go from Welch to Carroll, you can't go faster than 15 miles an hour, it's impossible.

00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:00.800
 So in a way, we have an unintentional calm street there, right?

00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:04.040
 And so there are things that we could do.

00:57:04.040 --> 00:57:12.600
 What this would achieve is it saves all of the parking, brings cyclists into the common lane,

00:57:12.600 --> 00:57:19.720
 but has infrastructure such that motor vehicles are forced to physically slow down.

00:57:19.720 --> 00:57:25.960
 Currently, it's a 20 mile an hour speed limit in this first block from the CVS to Fry

00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:28.720
 and then it's a 30 mile an hour speed limit to the next.

00:57:28.720 --> 00:57:34.760
 So what we would do is make both 20 miles an hour and we would put an infrastructure

00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:39.360
 that just makes it not possible to go faster than that or without having

00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:42.640
 to, you know, replace your shock absorbers or something.

00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:47.680
 So we come into it, we have a raised crosswalk here.

00:57:47.680 --> 00:57:55.080
 All of these features, we specifically ask the consultant to make them non-permanent.

00:57:55.080 --> 00:57:59.040
 There are these really great products that are bolt down

00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:03.640
 and so you just have your regular street and then you bolt them into the street.

00:58:03.640 --> 00:58:11.600
 They're made of very strong steel or high density plastics for the speed tables,

00:58:11.600 --> 00:58:14.920
 crosswalks and that slows vehicles down.

00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:20.080
 One thing I will suggest also, this idea came in kind of late

00:58:20.080 --> 00:58:24.720
 and so it's still a little under development is you could also do mid-block crossings.

00:58:24.720 --> 00:58:31.000
 There's an immense amount of jaywalking in that area and if you had a mid-block crossing say,

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:36.000
 you know, in front of the Vortmans or something like that, again, a speed table raised crossing,

00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:42.840
 maybe with some of the flashing LEDs, we make this a living boulevard.

00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:46.960
 So it's friendly to bicycles, it's friendly to pedestrians.

00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:49.920
 Vehicles can get through but not at high speed.

00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.440
 There are parking options.

00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.720
 Let's see.

00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:58.040
 So here we are at the Frey intersection.

00:58:58.040 --> 00:59:03.520
 We have what are called these bulb outs when visually when someone's driving

00:59:03.520 --> 00:59:07.200
 and the road narrows that tells them, oh, I need to slow down.

00:59:07.200 --> 00:59:12.520
 There's a huge amount of psychology in how people drive and treat the roads and so forth.

00:59:12.520 --> 00:59:13.960
 Bulb outs up here.

00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:18.320
 I would potentially suggest also a mid-block crossing somewhere here.

00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:25.120
 I think it's the Lucky Loos that it's in front of that just keeps things slow for this

00:59:25.120 --> 00:59:31.600
 so that as vehicles come down Hickory Street, they realize, oh, I'm in a special place.

00:59:31.600 --> 00:59:33.040
 I'm in a node.

00:59:33.040 --> 00:59:34.320
 I've reached a destination.

00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:39.680
 I'm going to slow down for two blocks and get through this and I'm going to notice pedestrians

00:59:39.680 --> 00:59:42.880
 and the bicycles are here with me and then when they get to the end of it,

00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:47.640
 they can sort of resume their travel.

00:59:47.640 --> 00:59:51.440
 If you look, let's see.

00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.680
 So there's where it ends at Weld Street.

00:59:53.680 --> 00:59:55.880
 Over here on the right, I'll draw your attention over there.

00:59:55.880 --> 01:00:01.440
 So you can see this is the speed table and you see it's not permanent asphalt.

01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:04.080
 It's something that's bolted down on there.

01:00:04.080 --> 01:00:07.160
 On the right, speed cushions, same thing.

01:00:07.160 --> 01:00:14.280
 On the bottom, these are some of the steel bolt down products that, and you know,

01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:21.880
 you can use that at these bulb outs and so forth and also planters, you know,

01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.280
 put planters in the street.

01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:29.840
 So it slows things down and there's a lot to be said for that but I will say

01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:38.680
 that our consultants were not, they were not willing to put their endorsements on this,

01:00:38.680 --> 01:00:45.600
 that they felt this achieved all of the objectives that we were looking for.

01:00:45.600 --> 01:00:48.640
 But, you know, they said, well, you could try it for a year or something.

01:00:48.640 --> 01:00:51.800
 So it's a possibility.

01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:53.520
 Those are the five.

01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:55.960
 I'm happy to take any further questions.

01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:01.360
 >> Well, I'd like to, you know, hear the citizen comments and then we can pick it up again.

01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:08.400
 So if you'll come to the mic, state your name and address and your time will begin.

01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.800
 We're going to go for three minute chunks.

01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:17.680
 If it doesn't work, you know, we can be flexible but let's try Clay Thurmond.

01:01:17.680 --> 01:01:20.280
 And if there's someone else who came to speak and didn't know we were going

01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:23.600
 to allow citizens to speak, turns out we can do that.

01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:26.600
 So if you want to put in a blue card, we're here.

01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:30.280
 >> Okay. Again, Clay Thurmond, 1524 Snyder, Denton.

01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:34.800
 I would like to advocate for either options one or two.

01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:42.280
 I particularly like option two because it maintains the continuity of parking

01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:47.320
 and the continuity of traffic and when people are driving or riding their bicycles,

01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:55.680
 a certain expectation of consistency is preserved by that option.

01:01:55.680 --> 01:02:03.400
 I would like to ask why we couldn't have some flexible bollards put down on that stripe lane

01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:08.280
 to add a little bit more to the protectiveness of it.

01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:12.280
 One or two are probably my favorite options.

01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:17.200
 Also, there's some of the cheaper options that we have.

01:02:17.200 --> 01:02:25.780
 And number three, I just don't think that's going to work.

01:02:25.780 --> 01:02:26.800
 It's very expensive.

01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:33.640
 We're looking at getting over into some root lines on the trees over there

01:02:33.640 --> 01:02:37.160
 and you're only doing it for a block or so.

01:02:37.160 --> 01:02:41.800
 And so I think that's a lot of money for just one block to do.

01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:49.080
 And similar to number four, I mean taking a secondary arterial from two lanes

01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:52.280
 down to one lane is not going to be very good.

01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:57.600
 And as far as the Calm Street, I think that's a great idea and that may be something

01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:01.200
 that I don't know is being worked into the MUSE plan or not,

01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:04.320
 but I don't think this is the right location for it.

01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:09.800
 So I'd like to advocate for option one or two, preferably number two.

01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:12.280
 >> Any questions?

01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:13.440
 >> Thank you.

01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:17.840
 Okay, we've got Aaron Powell.

01:03:17.840 --> 01:03:24.360
 Please state your name and address and your time will begin.

01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:27.280
 >> I'm Aaron Powell, 1011 Cordell Street, Denton.

01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:33.240
 I represent Bike Denton, which is a bike advocacy group here in Denton.

01:03:33.240 --> 01:03:37.940
 Similar to what Clay has suggested, options one or two are our favorite

01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:43.640
 because of the consistency and expectation of the cars.

01:03:43.640 --> 01:03:48.640
 I like option two better because rather than going behind the cars for a block

01:03:48.640 --> 01:03:52.000
 and then having to come back out of them, concern maybe about visibility

01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:54.520
 or expectations of cars watching for bikes.

01:03:54.520 --> 01:03:59.080
 Whereas if it's a lane that's consistent on the street all the way through,

01:03:59.080 --> 01:04:02.600
 which is what option two is, then the cars, you know, even if they have passed you

01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:06.240
 at one point or you come up on them, they at least have seen you

01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:09.160
 and they know you're there.

01:04:09.160 --> 01:04:14.920
 While I like the idea behind option three, it's, you know, for a block,

01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:19.960
 it's coming on and off and then on and off again, you know, it's not great.

01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:25.080
 I mean, if this was the entire stretch of oak or hickory rather from, you know,

01:04:25.080 --> 01:04:28.660
 Bonnie Bray down to Carol, that'd be, you know, a different conversation.

01:04:28.660 --> 01:04:33.080
 I think Bike Boulevard's on sidewalk level, it can actually work really well.

01:04:33.080 --> 01:04:38.440
 I lived in Europe for a couple of years and, you know, they have this infrastructure

01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:42.520
 and it actually is amazing, but it's also consistent throughout the entire city

01:04:42.520 --> 01:04:44.800
 or at least for an entire lane.

01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:49.680
 So I think expectations of just consistency down the whole street are important.

01:04:49.680 --> 01:04:52.880
 You know, that's also why I don't like option five and having the bikes merge

01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:56.720
 into traffic for a block and then merging back out onto a lane.

01:04:56.720 --> 01:05:01.000
 I'd rather just, if it's going to be a lane, which actually from Bonnie Bray starting

01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.960
 on hickory, the lane there is actually really good with the protected stripes.

01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:06.120
 I like that.

01:05:06.120 --> 01:05:08.800
 And if it kept all the way, you know, from there to Carol,

01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:12.320
 we'd have a really nice route to downtown, so.

01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.760
 >> Thank you.

01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:22.040
 Kim McKibbin, state your name and address and your time will begin.

01:05:22.040 --> 01:05:26.240
 >> Hi, I'm Kim McKibbin.

01:05:26.240 --> 01:05:30.440
 I own a business at 1306 West Hickory Street.

01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:34.360
 I've been with this project since the very beginning.

01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:37.760
 I've also served on the Oak Gateway Plan for the past year and a half

01:05:37.760 --> 01:05:40.080
 or whatever it is we've been working on.

01:05:40.080 --> 01:05:44.080
 I think over and over again we've looked at this and we've looked at this area.

01:05:44.080 --> 01:05:50.160
 The Oak Gateway Small Area Plan allowed us to expand our thinking past the narrowness

01:05:50.160 --> 01:05:53.960
 of the two blocks that we're talking about.

01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:56.920
 I can say that I've had multiple meetings with the traffic people.

01:05:56.920 --> 01:05:59.400
 We have had meetings with the business owners.

01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:01.600
 There is a number of businesses down there.

01:06:01.600 --> 01:06:04.360
 There are over 20.

01:06:04.360 --> 01:06:09.320
 I can't keep count because some have closed again because of lack of parking.

01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.640
 The problem is that the businesses do need the parking.

01:06:13.640 --> 01:06:15.840
 The university needs the parking.

01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.440
 It is 20 miles an hour through that area.

01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:23.160
 It should never have been slated as a major ulterior to be a bicycle lane

01:06:23.160 --> 01:06:24.480
 or to be a bicycle path.

01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:27.560
 It should have been routed other ways, but we're past that now.

01:06:27.560 --> 01:06:31.800
 But there's no reason to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:38.640
 I would like you to know that the businesses that are down there,

01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:44.920
 I do speak for them at this point, are very much aware as are the communities

01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:49.560
 that if you eliminate parking in the area, you're pushing the students out to other places.

01:06:49.560 --> 01:06:55.400
 I personally am more interested in the safety of the pedestrians, of the cyclists,

01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:56.800
 of the people riding vehicles.

01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:02.560
 That's why I really do hope that you'll give some consideration to the plan

01:07:02.560 --> 01:07:07.360
 that was brought forward by the Oak Gateway, the collective consciousness of all those people

01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:13.160
 that worked for so long, which is the calming traffic area in five.

01:07:13.160 --> 01:07:18.120
 Now, if you do not choose five and you choose to go with something different,

01:07:18.120 --> 01:07:22.560
 please don't think or allow the cyclists of the city to believe

01:07:22.560 --> 01:07:26.600
 that they are safe with two stripes on a road.

01:07:26.600 --> 01:07:30.600
 They will need to have physical barriers between them and the moving traffic,

01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:34.120
 and I don't mean the little plastic barriers, the ball yards.

01:07:34.120 --> 01:07:37.920
 Particularly through the area there in the Fry Street overlay district,

01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:43.080
 they will need concrete, they will need steel, they will need something in place

01:07:43.080 --> 01:07:46.400
 because the students will continue to walk out in front of them.

01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:49.720
 The cars will continue to pull out in front of them.

01:07:49.720 --> 01:07:53.200
 And I think that there are some creative solutions with five

01:07:53.200 --> 01:07:55.200
 that allows everybody increased safety.

01:07:55.200 --> 01:07:59.560
 I know the cyclists don't want to be part of traffic, but the reality is,

01:07:59.560 --> 01:08:07.160
 in a 20 mile an hour zone, they are more visible as part of the moving traffic

01:08:07.160 --> 01:08:10.640
 than they are removed from the moving traffic.

01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:13.440
 We're not talking about 30, 35 miles an hour.

01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:14.720
 It's all the way down a hill.

01:08:14.720 --> 01:08:17.080
 They're going to be doing 20 anyway.

01:08:17.080 --> 01:08:21.640
 So, please give some of that consideration if you want to try it for a while

01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:22.760
 or not try it for a while.

01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:27.600
 I know you have been lobbied very strongly by the Bicycle Coalition,

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:31.680
 and I hope that you take that into consideration.

01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:32.600
 Thank you.

01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:33.640
 >> Thanks.

01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:35.320
 Thank you.

01:08:35.320 --> 01:08:38.200
 And we have Kevin Marshall.

01:08:38.200 --> 01:08:46.560
 Yeah, just please state your name and address and your time will begin.

01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:51.280
 >> Okay, I'm Kevin Marshall, address 700 West Hickory,

01:08:51.280 --> 01:08:54.680
 Dent, Texas, 76201.

01:08:54.680 --> 01:08:57.600
 Yeah, I own Bullseye Bike Shop right there on Hickory.

01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:02.320
 I ride my bike on that road every day.

01:09:02.320 --> 01:09:08.280
 So, really, I mean, I feel like I have points in just about every single one

01:09:08.280 --> 01:09:10.600
 of those topics, every one of those plans.

01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:15.960
 So, if you all have any questions, I've been in a bunch of these meetings.

01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:22.280
 But I would say, I don't-- looking at the budget, I have no idea how much money you have

01:09:22.280 --> 01:09:26.840
 to spend and I know that y'all, you know, as a city, you work with millions of dollars.

01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:32.920
 Like, my scope for what y'all deal with is way beyond, you know, what y'all, you know,

01:09:32.920 --> 01:09:36.640
 I mean, y'alls-- what y'all deal with is way beyond what I'm used to dealing with.

01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:44.040
 So, I-- my favorite one is, you know, if money wasn't an issue

01:09:44.040 --> 01:09:45.960
 to actually just give us our own lane.

01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:47.480
 Like, give us our own lane separate.

01:09:47.480 --> 01:09:49.480
 I've cycled a lot in the woodlands.

01:09:49.480 --> 01:09:56.600
 They actually-- they're in the top 10 best cities to cycle in in the nation

01:09:56.600 --> 01:10:00.640
 and they actually have a separate bike lane through the infrastructure.

01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:05.320
 So, they have the road and then they have their own separate from traffic bike lane.

01:10:05.320 --> 01:10:09.720
 I think that would move-- it'd be the safest but I don't want to recommend something

01:10:09.720 --> 01:10:14.840
 that will never happen or will happen in-- supposed to happen in five years

01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:17.640
 and then get tabled and happen in five years and then get tabled.

01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:21.480
 And so, if that's what it's going to do, don't push that one through.

01:10:21.480 --> 01:10:24.120
 Go with something simple like one or two.

01:10:24.120 --> 01:10:29.880
 Keep us-- I would say out of them, the one that actually just had a divider that kind of--

01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:35.080
 what's nice is if that street fluctuates in and fluctuates out, you can kind of use that buffer

01:10:35.080 --> 01:10:38.440
 to kind of balance out the street and the lanes and the parking.

01:10:38.440 --> 01:10:45.080
 So, that would be good what they showed of the dividers like the plastic things that stick up

01:10:45.080 --> 01:10:49.320
 in that picture of five, right?

01:10:49.320 --> 01:10:53.560
 I think those dividers are actually really helpful like cars.

01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:58.440
 I've ridden in Austin where they use those to kind of separate the road

01:10:58.440 --> 01:11:02.760
 and those actually, you know, they do give something that the cars are aware of

01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:07.000
 or somebody starts to drift, drunk driving, people leaving the bars.

01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:12.760
 I know this is a 20-mile zone but it's not treated or approached like a 20-mile zone.

01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:17.320
 People leave the bars, you know, or they're trying to find a spot

01:11:17.320 --> 01:11:21.000
 because they're late for campus, so late to get to class.

01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.400
 So, they are going faster than 20 miles an hour.

01:11:23.400 --> 01:11:28.840
 So, anything you can do to kind of separate us would be great.

01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:37.880
 Yeah, so I don't think if you put the parking next to the road and the bike lane on the other side,

01:11:37.880 --> 01:11:40.680
 I'm really not concerned about a person getting out of their car

01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:45.400
 and not being aware enough to realize they're about to get hit by a bicycle.

01:11:45.400 --> 01:11:48.840
 And part of riding a bicycle is we're constantly aware

01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:51.240
 that pedestrians are going to walk out in front of us.

01:11:51.240 --> 01:11:53.080
 Someone's going to open their car door into us.

01:11:53.080 --> 01:11:54.360
 Someone's going to pull into traffic.

01:11:54.360 --> 01:11:59.720
 A really big issue was exactly what you all are dealing with

01:11:59.720 --> 01:12:04.040
 where when we stop at a light, there are cars that are taking rights.

01:12:04.040 --> 01:12:09.240
 And whenever you're bombing down from Avenue B to Fry,

01:12:09.240 --> 01:12:13.160
 when you're going down that, that's a pretty steep incline.

01:12:13.160 --> 01:12:15.880
 And I mean, I'm breaking the speed limit.

01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:19.240
 You know, like I'm definitely on a bicycle.

01:12:19.240 --> 01:12:24.280
 I'm probably hitting 30 miles an hour like flying through there.

01:12:24.280 --> 01:12:27.560
 So, not that I do that, but yeah.

01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:29.720
 So I've got a question.

01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:33.960
 Yeah, I wasn't that clear on, you know, sorry,

01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:36.680
 on what your sort of ideal would be.

01:12:36.680 --> 01:12:39.080
 The one that you hope you wouldn't advocate

01:12:39.080 --> 01:12:41.000
 if it was going to get kicked down the road forever.

01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:46.440
 But was that like when you say a separate lane for bikes, which one?

01:12:46.440 --> 01:12:47.880
 It was that really the expensive one.

01:12:47.880 --> 01:12:51.800
 Was that for where the carbon of the sidewalk or?

01:12:51.800 --> 01:12:54.280
 Yeah, yeah, where it's separate.

01:12:54.280 --> 01:12:57.400
 And then was that three, three, three.

01:12:57.400 --> 01:13:01.240
 Yeah, so yep.

01:13:01.240 --> 01:13:02.520
 OK, and did you have a question?

01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:03.640
 And then, yeah.

01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:06.520
 And then if that one's just never going to happen,

01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:07.960
 I think it's two, right?

01:13:07.960 --> 01:13:10.600
 Two's the one where we have her.

01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:12.680
 But one or two, they both sounded good.

01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:14.600
 I've got a whole bunch of stuff, too,

01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:16.840
 if y'all ever wanted to close off Fry Street

01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:19.160
 and give us extra parking, but that's.

01:13:19.160 --> 01:13:19.800
 Yeah, thank you.

01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:23.320
 I'm going to speak about that.

01:13:23.320 --> 01:13:25.560
 Glad you mentioned that.

01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:29.880
 Mark, would you mind speaking to the issue of the--

01:13:29.880 --> 01:13:31.320
 I forget what you call it-- the plastic?

01:13:31.320 --> 01:13:35.560
 A bollards or delineators.

01:13:35.560 --> 01:13:39.560
 Yeah, in what scenarios would they conceivably fit or not fit?

01:13:39.560 --> 01:13:46.520
 So here, if you see the little SUV and that vertical white.

01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:48.280
 This is option five.

01:13:48.280 --> 01:13:49.240
 OK, option five, yeah.

01:13:49.240 --> 01:13:49.880
 Coming out.

01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:50.280
 Let me see.

01:13:50.280 --> 01:13:51.000
 Oh, here it is.

01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:52.440
 Yeah, right there.

01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:53.800
 So yeah, we got them there.

01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:56.200
 Yeah, these are fairly commonly used.

01:13:56.200 --> 01:13:57.640
 We call them delineators.

01:13:57.640 --> 01:14:00.520
 They come in different heights, different colors.

01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:04.200
 They almost always have bands of reflective material at the top.

01:14:04.200 --> 01:14:08.200
 They can be placed on asphalt with adhesive.

01:14:08.200 --> 01:14:11.400
 Typically, we like to do that rather than bolt into it.

01:14:11.400 --> 01:14:15.000
 This is what we're thinking of doing on Highland Street

01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:21.800
 to divide the vehicle lanes from the bike lanes.

01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:23.560
 They're fairly inexpensive.

01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:27.880
 It is entirely a psychological deterrent.

01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:28.680
 You know, there's no--

01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:29.480
 It doesn't stop a car.

01:14:29.480 --> 01:14:33.880
 But would you mind addressing which of the other options

01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:36.920
 they would conceivably be addable to?

01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:38.920
 Yeah, you do have enough space.

01:14:38.920 --> 01:14:40.440
 Let's see.

01:14:40.440 --> 01:14:41.000
 Where are we?

01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:42.040
 I'll go all the way.

01:14:42.040 --> 01:14:43.240
 OK, option one.

01:14:43.240 --> 01:14:49.160
 We have, if you can see here this measurement, three feet buffer.

01:14:49.160 --> 01:14:52.520
 That's definitely enough space to put one of those

01:14:52.520 --> 01:14:57.480
 sort of between your hash marks either at every interval

01:14:57.480 --> 01:14:59.240
 or every other interval.

01:14:59.240 --> 01:15:01.960
 They're fairly inexpensive.

01:15:01.960 --> 01:15:04.040
 Option two.

01:15:04.040 --> 01:15:09.400
 We're looking at, well, two to three and a half foot widths

01:15:09.400 --> 01:15:10.040
 there as well.

01:15:10.040 --> 01:15:11.000
 And you could do that.

01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.720
 Definitely install those.

01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:16.760
 No trouble and not a lot of extra cost.

01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:19.720
 Three, it would be--

01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:24.520
 Well, I guess you could put some between the sidewalk

01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:27.880
 and the bike lanes just to kind of help keep--

01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:30.760
 And you would do markings on the pavement.

01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:32.440
 You know, bicycles over here.

01:15:32.440 --> 01:15:33.560
 And so it's very clear.

01:15:33.560 --> 01:15:41.000
 You know, further down you would have space.

01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:44.280
 Yes, I think on all the options, this one has a four foot--

01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:47.320
 Oh, well, no, this is option four that we're not doing.

01:15:47.320 --> 01:15:48.600
 Question within your answer here.

01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:49.320
 Yeah.

01:15:49.320 --> 01:15:51.480
 Well, just a comment because just start right here.

01:15:51.480 --> 01:15:54.680
 What we've done is that we've acknowledged that this is

01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:57.720
 a really high pedestrian-oriented area

01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:04.120
 and that cars go really fast and that this calm intersection

01:16:04.120 --> 01:16:05.640
 would be really great.

01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:09.320
 But then in any of the other designs, it's not mentioned.

01:16:09.320 --> 01:16:13.800
 And so I want to know why in this calm one when the bicycles

01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:16.200
 are in the traffic because the intersection

01:16:16.200 --> 01:16:19.480
 doesn't really have anything to do with the moving lanes of traffic.

01:16:19.480 --> 01:16:24.040
 It's about the pedestrians getting across the street

01:16:24.040 --> 01:16:25.560
 and moving through that intersection.

01:16:25.560 --> 01:16:30.920
 So I mean, because I look at this and then I look at the bike lane,

01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:33.960
 I look at the dividers and I see that, you know,

01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:36.440
 these are things that we need, you know,

01:16:36.440 --> 01:16:38.600
 not just here and in other parts of the city.

01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:43.480
 But I'm wondering why this intersection is only being calm

01:16:43.480 --> 01:16:49.160
 in this design and not in any of the others.

01:16:49.160 --> 01:16:52.760
 I know it was something mentioned in the O-Gap plan

01:16:52.760 --> 01:16:57.240
 that they are interested in it, I think, in general.

01:16:57.240 --> 01:17:02.680
 Part of it was cost savings where we were looking at ways

01:17:02.680 --> 01:17:09.160
 to just achieve this with paint or thermoplastic

01:17:09.160 --> 01:17:12.600
 that gets heated and laid down.

01:17:13.240 --> 01:17:13.880
 Do you want to?

01:17:13.880 --> 01:17:16.280
 Yeah, to talk to that.

01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:19.880
 I think at that particular intersection, Avenue B,

01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:23.800
 the entire frontage of UNT is 20 miles an hour.

01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:26.200
 It's a signalized intersection where everyone stops

01:17:26.200 --> 01:17:29.400
 so there are signal-protected crosswalks.

01:17:29.400 --> 01:17:33.400
 The way this was envisioned back in the day,

01:17:33.400 --> 01:17:38.120
 about two or three years ago, when Hickory Street project started,

01:17:38.120 --> 01:17:42.840
 is the reconstruction of Hickory Street

01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:45.560
 was between the existing curb lines.

01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:47.400
 They were not touching the curbs.

01:17:47.400 --> 01:17:49.000
 They were just reconstructing the street.

01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:51.240
 So this project would be implemented

01:17:51.240 --> 01:17:53.720
 as part of a restrapping effort

01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:56.440
 after the street reconstruction was completed.

01:17:56.440 --> 01:17:59.240
 Now that we have all these...

01:17:59.240 --> 01:18:03.080
 Now that we have certain parking issues

01:18:03.080 --> 01:18:06.440
 and we wanted to look at options,

01:18:06.440 --> 01:18:08.200
 we're coming up with certain options

01:18:08.200 --> 01:18:11.400
 that change the curb lines that require redesign

01:18:11.400 --> 01:18:17.000
 for a storm and redesign for how the street will be curbed.

01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:18.840
 So these are a lot of expensive options.

01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:22.520
 And originally, when this project was envisioned,

01:18:22.520 --> 01:18:23.880
 these were not on the table.

01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:25.720
 Now we're trying to come up with creative ways

01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:27.320
 of how we can save the parking

01:18:27.320 --> 01:18:29.240
 and implement something different.

01:18:29.240 --> 01:18:32.360
 Just on that note with the parking,

01:18:32.360 --> 01:18:36.440
 I drove by there earlier today and I counted 23 cars

01:18:36.440 --> 01:18:39.080
 and that's because there was a section of it

01:18:39.080 --> 01:18:42.760
 that wasn't being used because there was a construction

01:18:42.760 --> 01:18:45.000
 thing working there.

01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:48.520
 So just for reference.

01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:55.720
 I have plenty to say so I'll wait.

01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:58.120
 Yeah, I've got several things.

01:18:58.120 --> 01:19:00.520
 I kind of like three,

01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:03.640
 but I like some of the options that are in five as well.

01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:06.280
 I think I agree with Council Member Briggs

01:19:06.280 --> 01:19:07.560
 that we can do both.

01:19:09.240 --> 01:19:10.840
 I know this area very, very well.

01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:13.000
 I drive it every day.

01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:15.720
 I've walked it many, many times.

01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:21.640
 And between Avenue A and Fry is the heaviest congestion.

01:19:21.640 --> 01:19:27.080
 So that explains why we will need to do that shifting of the bikes.

01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:28.760
 What I'm wondering about, you know,

01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:32.600
 you see New York is probably the biggest example of it.

01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:35.800
 An actual concrete barrier for that bike lane

01:19:36.680 --> 01:19:39.560
 is that I don't know how much more,

01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:40.920
 I'm sure it's quite a bit more expensive,

01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:42.200
 but it just depends on how you.

01:19:42.200 --> 01:19:42.840
 Like a curb?

01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:48.280
 Well, you know, how, yeah.

01:19:48.280 --> 01:19:55.320
 What they use on the highway when they try and block off,

01:19:55.320 --> 01:19:57.480
 you know, their, what, maybe 10 foot sections,

01:19:57.480 --> 01:19:58.680
 20 foot sections that, you know,

01:19:58.680 --> 01:19:59.800
 the big concrete that they just.

01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:00.520
 Concrete barriers.

01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:01.400
 Concrete barrier.

01:20:01.400 --> 01:20:01.900
 Dividers.

01:20:01.900 --> 01:20:04.600
 On this particular one, I do want to point out that

01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:09.400
 the bikeway is going to be six inches above the street level,

01:20:09.400 --> 01:20:11.480
 above and elevated.

01:20:11.480 --> 01:20:16.200
 That means there will be curb and the cars won't be parked

01:20:16.200 --> 01:20:18.200
 or cannot enter the bike area.

01:20:18.200 --> 01:20:24.360
 So they will be protected, if you may, as well as divided.

01:20:24.360 --> 01:20:28.600
 And I look at it from a different standpoint, too.

01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:30.040
 We talk about the amount of jaywalking.

01:20:30.040 --> 01:20:31.000
 Well, how do you stop that?

01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:34.840
 Well, that's one way you're going to direct them

01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:36.200
 to use an actual crosswalk.

01:20:36.200 --> 01:20:38.600
 And if we had to add another crosswalk in the middle,

01:20:38.600 --> 01:20:42.440
 that's fine, but you're adding to the safety feature

01:20:42.440 --> 01:20:43.400
 when you put that in there.

01:20:43.400 --> 01:20:45.400
 You're directing people in a certain direction.

01:20:45.400 --> 01:20:49.160
 What's the width of the Jersey barrier at its base?

01:20:49.160 --> 01:20:49.800
 Do you know?

01:20:49.800 --> 01:20:50.600
 Is it three feet?

01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:52.760
 I think it's pretty wide.

01:20:52.760 --> 01:20:54.040
 We don't have the space here.

01:20:54.040 --> 01:20:55.320
 Big, yeah.

01:20:55.320 --> 01:20:57.320
 Some of these we have three feet, but.

01:20:57.320 --> 01:21:00.760
 And I think those are designed for really high speed areas.

01:21:01.080 --> 01:21:03.000
 There might be something a little bit smaller than that

01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:05.320
 that would work in the same manner.

01:21:05.320 --> 01:21:08.680
 Wheel stop size, it won't be a super large barrier.

01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:12.520
 Because I think if you just put the plastic ones out there

01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:14.360
 and you've got the parking there,

01:21:14.360 --> 01:21:15.880
 you're going to have people going over the...

01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:21.640
 In the issue, somebody mentioned doors opening on a car

01:21:21.640 --> 01:21:23.800
 as you're walking by.

01:21:23.800 --> 01:21:27.640
 I guess if you put the concrete in there,

01:21:27.640 --> 01:21:31.480
 you couldn't get out on that side as easily

01:21:31.480 --> 01:21:33.240
 with only a seven and a half foot width.

01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:35.160
 You're talking about New York,

01:21:35.160 --> 01:21:39.160
 the thing they use to kind of prevent mid-block crossing,

01:21:39.160 --> 01:21:44.360
 are those metal, like, movable fences, right?

01:21:44.360 --> 01:21:47.560
 With slats like that and the bar across the top.

01:21:47.560 --> 01:21:50.440
 And it's got a base which I think is narrower in footprint

01:21:50.440 --> 01:21:53.400
 than the, what were you calling it, the New Jersey barriers?

01:21:53.400 --> 01:21:54.840
 That might be what you had in mind.

01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:59.240
 But I guess for me, I think it's 25 years ago

01:21:59.240 --> 01:22:01.640
 was the last time Hickory was redone thereabouts.

01:22:01.640 --> 01:22:09.080
 And so this is a major gateway of the community.

01:22:09.080 --> 01:22:13.640
 Most everybody that's ever gone to UNT has been to this part.

01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:15.000
 You might not have been to all of campus,

01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:16.200
 but you've been to this area.

01:22:16.200 --> 01:22:21.480
 And so to me, it's incumbent upon us as a council

01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:25.720
 to take pride in this and make sure that it's done right

01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:27.400
 and works well.

01:22:27.400 --> 01:22:32.600
 So I'd like to know what UNT thinks a little bit more

01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:35.320
 about the option three, where they stand on it.

01:22:35.320 --> 01:22:40.200
 Did you, were you about to say something else?

01:22:40.200 --> 01:22:42.920
 I just wanted to make sure that you know

01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:44.680
 that I really like the flower boxes.

01:22:44.680 --> 01:22:51.160
 Well, this is the Committee on the Environment.

01:22:51.160 --> 01:22:54.840
 Yeah, I would love to understand a little bit better

01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:59.080
 what the root zone issue might be or might not be.

01:22:59.080 --> 01:23:01.320
 There are quite a few trees that will be impacted

01:23:01.320 --> 01:23:02.920
 if we go and widen the sidewalk.

01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:04.760
 The current sidewalk, we have checked.

01:23:04.760 --> 01:23:06.680
 It's between eight and 10 feet wide.

01:23:06.680 --> 01:23:06.840
 Yeah.

01:23:06.840 --> 01:23:10.120
 It's on the wider side, but we will need more than 10 feet.

01:23:10.120 --> 01:23:15.640
 So if you look at this photo, CVS is kind of to your left rear.

01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:22.360
 You have the retaining wall, hydrant, and then up here,

01:23:22.360 --> 01:23:23.720
 I don't know if you can see very well,

01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.360
 but this is where you would have to seat up the bicycles here

01:23:26.360 --> 01:23:30.200
 and then you would have your sidewalk out here.

01:23:30.200 --> 01:23:34.360
 So there are lampposts and then quite a few trees.

01:23:34.360 --> 01:23:38.280
 The other issue is there are steps starting right

01:23:38.280 --> 01:23:42.280
 where the retaining wall is if you go further down from CVS

01:23:42.280 --> 01:23:43.800
 and those need to be redesigned.

01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:47.160
 If we move it closer, then you don't get the height for the steps.

01:23:47.160 --> 01:23:50.680
 So it becomes an engineering challenge to add that width there.

01:23:50.680 --> 01:23:53.480
 You like a challenge.

01:23:53.480 --> 01:23:53.640
 Yeah.

01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:57.560
 Is there anything that says a sidewalk has to be perfectly straight

01:23:57.560 --> 01:24:00.520
 and not go on the other side of the tree and weave between them?

01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:04.040
 Yeah, because I think my guess is we probably all--

01:24:04.040 --> 01:24:05.160
 this is the beauty of the environment.

01:24:05.160 --> 01:24:07.640
 That we probably all like to preserve the trees

01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:08.760
 that are part of the beauty of the area.

01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.400
 UNT is amenable to that.

01:24:11.400 --> 01:24:12.920
 Yes, it's a UNT.

01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:15.480
 It's-- we don't have the right of way.

01:24:15.480 --> 01:24:17.400
 It's talking to UNT if they're--

01:24:17.400 --> 01:24:17.640
 Yeah.

01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:19.720
 They have a lot of shared objectives here, though, right?

01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:20.220
 Yeah.

01:24:20.220 --> 01:24:23.560
 I just don't want to lose parking because I know how--

01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:28.120
 in that area, when the space opens up,

01:24:28.120 --> 01:24:32.440
 it gets filled back up when college is in session in a heartbeat.

01:24:32.440 --> 01:24:33.960
 I'd like to-- go ahead.

01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:34.460
 I'm sorry.

01:24:34.460 --> 01:24:41.880
 I'd like to make a couple of points that are questions embedded in them

01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:46.200
 related to the perceived trade-off of bike lane and parking.

01:24:46.200 --> 01:24:49.160
 One is, I just want to acknowledge,

01:24:49.160 --> 01:24:50.280
 just so we're open between us,

01:24:50.280 --> 01:24:54.840
 I asked explicitly for a review of the data from studies that are done.

01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:56.440
 Are you prepared to share anything about that?

01:24:56.440 --> 01:25:01.480
 Yes, it's not included in the report, but--

01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:05.640
 so we received a very extensive literature review

01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:09.240
 that was put together by some professional researchers.

01:25:09.240 --> 01:25:14.360
 It's been done in the past about what are the impacts

01:25:14.360 --> 01:25:17.560
 of removing parking and adding bicycle infrastructure.

01:25:17.560 --> 01:25:23.960
 Of those, it's difficult to draw a direct comparison

01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:29.560
 because many of the sample areas were New York City,

01:25:29.560 --> 01:25:31.960
 San Francisco, downtown Toronto,

01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:39.240
 large metropolitan areas with complementary transit

01:25:39.240 --> 01:25:40.920
 and lots of other things going on.

01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:51.480
 But there is evidence that bicyclists drive higher sales

01:25:51.480 --> 01:25:53.880
 and especially in certain numbers of businesses.

01:25:53.880 --> 01:25:57.000
 They make more trips more frequently.

01:25:57.000 --> 01:25:58.680
 If you're traveling on a bicycle,

01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:01.480
 you're much less likely to drive to the far side of town

01:26:01.480 --> 01:26:03.000
 to hit Walmart or something,

01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:07.240
 which is not at all friendly to bicycles or something like that.

01:26:07.240 --> 01:26:11.000
 Already, the pedestrian nature of this area,

01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:13.960
 the bicyclists who are accessing the campus and so forth,

01:26:13.960 --> 01:26:16.600
 we know are already in the area using it.

01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:21.000
 But I did not find something specific enough

01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:26.040
 to a town in Texas or the Midwest or something like that,

01:26:26.040 --> 01:26:32.040
 a mid-sized town where there was a strong indicator

01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:37.400
 that removing parking absolutely made an economic case

01:26:37.400 --> 01:26:38.120
 and made sense.

01:26:38.120 --> 01:26:41.320
 I appreciate your responding to the request.

01:26:41.320 --> 01:26:44.440
 Another issue I'd like to take up,

01:26:44.440 --> 01:26:49.000
 given this potential of a trade-off,

01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:51.400
 although actually you're hearing a lot of support

01:26:51.400 --> 01:26:55.240
 for making the pie bigger with option three,

01:26:55.240 --> 01:26:56.680
 if we can save the trees.

01:26:56.680 --> 01:27:01.880
 But another thing that, I don't know if it's explicitly said,

01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:05.000
 it's certainly implicitly in Oak Gateway

01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:09.880
 is the idea of making this even more of an area

01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:10.920
 with a sense of place.

01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:15.320
 And I don't know why so frequently I hear raised

01:27:15.320 --> 01:27:20.040
 but never seriously considered this business of closing off

01:27:20.040 --> 01:27:22.600
 that section of fry one way or the other.

01:27:22.600 --> 01:27:25.960
 You talked about possibly closing it off at the Hickory side,

01:27:25.960 --> 01:27:27.320
 which I see some advantages to.

01:27:27.320 --> 01:27:31.320
 What had occurred to me, not having heard that idea,

01:27:31.320 --> 01:27:36.600
 was you extend the sidewalk in front of the shops

01:27:36.600 --> 01:27:40.760
 across Mulberry and you pick up space that right now

01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:44.360
 is Mulberry Street or is that angle, right?

01:27:44.360 --> 01:27:48.680
 So it gives you the possibility of your one earth right there.

01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:53.080
 >> Air, sir? >> Yeah, right now you've got

01:27:53.080 --> 01:27:55.480
 parallel parking, I don't know if it's by law,

01:27:55.480 --> 01:27:58.120
 but something by practice and it's in the picture

01:27:58.120 --> 01:27:59.960
 along the west side.

01:27:59.960 --> 01:28:03.000
 You could go angle there and pick up spaces.

01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:06.520
 You could pick up pedestrian and bike amenities

01:28:06.520 --> 01:28:08.920
 like bike rack at the southern end.

01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:16.120
 In other words, if you extend the business side sidewalk

01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:20.760
 straight south, right, until it crosses Mulberry.

01:28:20.760 --> 01:28:23.640
 And you see what I'm saying?

01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:27.000
 So you pick up that whole bit that's, you know,

01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:31.400
 you close it off there, still allow emergency vehicles

01:28:31.400 --> 01:28:34.040
 in and out, deliveries in and out,

01:28:34.040 --> 01:28:37.960
 and obviously the cars were parking there in and out,

01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:39.320
 but it's not a through street.

01:28:39.320 --> 01:28:43.960
 The bus can stop at the corner of Hickory and Welch.

01:28:43.960 --> 01:28:46.920
 They stop all along the way, I know, there's nothing

01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:48.440
 precious about that particular spot.

01:28:48.440 --> 01:28:53.400
 You pick up parking spaces, you add the possibility

01:28:53.400 --> 01:28:58.040
 of a greater sense of place to the Fry Street area,

01:28:58.040 --> 01:29:01.080
 and you still allow Hickory to be the arterial.

01:29:01.080 --> 01:29:03.400
 Now as far as option five, I don't know if there's anybody

01:29:03.400 --> 01:29:05.400
 here who could speak to how it feels to get hit

01:29:05.400 --> 01:29:07.240
 at 20 miles an hour, I don't think it's great.

01:29:07.240 --> 01:29:11.720
 So I'm not that compelled by how common it would feel

01:29:11.720 --> 01:29:15.160
 to get hit by 20 miles an hour, so I'm more inclined

01:29:15.160 --> 01:29:17.240
 to have the straight, protected path through.

01:29:17.240 --> 01:29:22.280
 And if we can do option three, I'd totally support that,

01:29:22.280 --> 01:29:24.440
 but that's not mutually exclusive with the idea of,

01:29:24.440 --> 01:29:28.360
 you know, adding that sense of space to the Fry Street area

01:29:28.360 --> 01:29:30.120
 and some parking.

01:29:30.120 --> 01:29:35.320
 If I, or may I at least address that?

01:29:35.320 --> 01:29:40.120
 So I really agree with what you're saying,

01:29:40.120 --> 01:29:45.000
 and I think there does need to be some more holistic

01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:47.560
 thinking about this area and what's going on.

01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:53.720
 In our contract with the consultant, we were limited

01:29:53.720 --> 01:29:56.200
 in a way, I actually brought up, hey, what if we close

01:29:56.200 --> 01:29:58.200
 this off, and they're like, I think we're kind of

01:29:58.200 --> 01:29:59.400
 getting off the scope there.

01:29:59.400 --> 01:30:05.720
 So I like it, I would be from, as bike and pedestrian

01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:09.480
 subject matter expert, I would love to talk about

01:30:09.480 --> 01:30:10.120
 that some more.

01:30:10.120 --> 01:30:13.320
 I just, I don't know where would it be economic development

01:30:13.320 --> 01:30:16.520
 or planning or like how that would--

01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:18.120
 Where is the room for something that would be good

01:30:18.120 --> 01:30:18.600
 for the city?

01:30:18.600 --> 01:30:19.480
 There must be a place.

01:30:19.480 --> 01:30:27.800
 It's part of, it is part of mobility.

01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:29.000
 That's great.

01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:33.240
 So just to better understand, quickly understand,

01:30:33.240 --> 01:30:37.800
 you want to shut the northbound traffic along Avenue A Fry

01:30:37.800 --> 01:30:38.760
 or the southbound traffic--

01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:41.160
 Well, look, if I can just respond to the question.

01:30:41.160 --> 01:30:43.080
 It was just my idea.

01:30:43.080 --> 01:30:46.280
 I'm always interested in hearing a build to a better idea.

01:30:46.280 --> 01:30:48.680
 And actually, I can't even say it was my idea.

01:30:48.680 --> 01:30:50.680
 I took it credit where credit is due.

01:30:50.680 --> 01:30:54.440
 It came from a cyclist, and I just thought, wow,

01:30:54.440 --> 01:30:55.400
 that solves a lot of problems.

01:30:55.400 --> 01:30:55.800
 Susie Roomer.

01:30:55.800 --> 01:30:57.560
 Mr. Roomer, yeah, yeah.

01:30:57.560 --> 01:30:58.520
 If he's not here, he's here.

01:30:58.520 --> 01:30:59.640
 It's very, very--

01:30:59.640 --> 01:31:00.680
 She'll watch it.

01:31:00.680 --> 01:31:01.160
 Yeah.

01:31:01.160 --> 01:31:03.400
 No, no, not Susie, it was her husband.

01:31:03.400 --> 01:31:04.280
 Oh, Garrett, okay.

01:31:04.280 --> 01:31:04.840
 Yeah.

01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:06.360
 He said, yeah, you know, I've always thought,

01:31:06.360 --> 01:31:08.600
 but then I've subsequently heard it from other people.

01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:09.880
 Yeah, once it's kind of in your mind,

01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:11.080
 it's kind of hard to let go.

01:31:11.080 --> 01:31:15.480
 But yeah, the suggestion that I have made for consideration

01:31:15.480 --> 01:31:17.320
 was you close it off.

01:31:17.320 --> 01:31:21.160
 You have Mulberry end at basically the sidewalk

01:31:21.160 --> 01:31:23.320
 on the east side of Avenue A.

01:31:23.320 --> 01:31:30.440
 And I was anticipating the access in and out of the north,

01:31:30.440 --> 01:31:32.200
 but it's just the way I thought of it.

01:31:32.200 --> 01:31:33.480
 You know, it doesn't mean there's not a better way.

01:31:33.480 --> 01:31:34.440
 It wouldn't happen.

01:31:34.440 --> 01:31:37.560
 It could be closed off entirely to vehicles.

01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:40.760
 This intersection, no vehicles out, no vehicles in.

01:31:40.760 --> 01:31:42.760
 It could be closed in one direction.

01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:44.600
 There's lots of good ideas.

01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:49.880
 It could also be open to only buses and emergency vehicles

01:31:49.880 --> 01:31:51.000
 or something like that.

01:31:51.000 --> 01:31:53.960
 Well, I think you have to allow deliveries.

01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:54.440
 I mean, that's--

01:31:54.440 --> 01:31:54.840
 Yeah.

01:31:54.840 --> 01:31:57.880
 Right, that's the lifeblood of that block.

01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:06.040
 Mr. Chair, if I may, because you also have a tour,

01:32:06.040 --> 01:32:08.360
 you know, later this afternoon or here shortly.

01:32:08.360 --> 01:32:09.400
 You think we're getting long?

01:32:09.400 --> 01:32:11.000
 No, no, you can talk as long as you want.

01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:14.120
 But if you would like at the end, you know,

01:32:14.120 --> 01:32:16.440
 certainly this would be like a concluding item

01:32:16.440 --> 01:32:18.920
 type discussion that we could look at some of that

01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:20.360
 and do an informal staff report,

01:32:20.360 --> 01:32:22.680
 bring it back to the committee and the whole council.

01:32:22.680 --> 01:32:24.280
 I request the informal staff report now.

01:32:24.280 --> 01:32:27.960
 It is pertinent to this posting in that it addresses

01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:29.080
 the parking trade-off.

01:32:29.080 --> 01:32:31.320
 No, I understood, but just as it means to--

01:32:31.320 --> 01:32:34.520
 I assert, Mr. Chair, it is pertinent to the posting.

01:32:36.040 --> 01:32:36.760
 Go ahead, I'm sorry.

01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:40.520
 Just from the standpoint of allow staff to do that research,

01:32:40.520 --> 01:32:43.640
 I'd hate to put Mark on the spot about just trying to provide

01:32:43.640 --> 01:32:45.400
 some what-ifs and--

01:32:45.400 --> 01:32:46.200
 Absolutely.

01:32:46.200 --> 01:32:48.920
 Clearly, it opens the door for the consideration of staff.

01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:51.800
 And that way, we can work with economic development,

01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:54.840
 planning, engineering, and even DCTA,

01:32:54.840 --> 01:32:55.960
 because what it affects with them.

01:32:55.960 --> 01:32:59.080
 So it allows us to kind of have that more holistic conversation,

01:32:59.080 --> 01:33:02.600
 internal and external, and see what options are available,

01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:04.360
 and the cost and other things that just

01:33:04.360 --> 01:33:06.600
 may affect that area long term.

01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:08.360
 Well, so-- go ahead.

01:33:08.360 --> 01:33:11.560
 I was ready to kind of try to articulate a consensus.

01:33:11.560 --> 01:33:15.000
 Just to kind of add to what I'd like to see from staff,

01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:18.680
 because we've got a pathway on Sycamore that's planned,

01:33:18.680 --> 01:33:22.920
 that we've already gotten funds from COG for.

01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:27.160
 And is that going to be just pedestrian?

01:33:27.160 --> 01:33:29.560
 Because I understood that to be an 8 or 10-foot wide.

01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:32.280
 That's a multi-use trail that's 10 to 12 feet wide.

01:33:32.280 --> 01:33:34.280
 So as we're looking at this little area,

01:33:34.280 --> 01:33:36.120
 we need to see how we connect these.

01:33:36.120 --> 01:33:37.640
 That could be, you know--

01:33:37.640 --> 01:33:42.280
 Sycamore to Welch.

01:33:42.280 --> 01:33:45.000
 And there are also improvements on Welch as part of that same--

01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:48.120
 So Welch will be road diet where you have one lane

01:33:48.120 --> 01:33:51.160
 in each direction with bike lanes on either side.

01:33:51.160 --> 01:33:56.600
 So since some of the capacity on Welch will be reduced,

01:33:56.600 --> 01:33:59.320
 the parallel is Avenue A to get in and out,

01:33:59.320 --> 01:34:01.000
 and is the access for the businesses.

01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:03.400
 So we have to look at more holistic.

01:34:03.400 --> 01:34:06.680
 Is it even an option given that we're going

01:34:06.680 --> 01:34:09.000
 already set in one direction for Welch?

01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:13.960
 And we can bring it back on that one.

01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:15.640
 Okay, and Council Member Briggs?

01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:16.840
 I have a few questions.

01:34:16.840 --> 01:34:20.280
 One, is our mobility--

01:34:20.280 --> 01:34:22.680
 I mean, I know that our mobility and thoroughfare plan

01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:24.760
 are getting updated, and along with that,

01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:27.960
 it's our sidewalk is getting updated as well.

01:34:27.960 --> 01:34:29.160
 What about our bike plan?

01:34:29.160 --> 01:34:31.880
 2012 is-- As part of the mobility plan.

01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:35.800
 And so that will also be into that scope as well.

01:34:35.800 --> 01:34:39.320
 Okay, because I feel like we need a big review of that

01:34:39.320 --> 01:34:43.160
 so that we can kind of get a holistic view of what's going on.

01:34:43.160 --> 01:34:46.280
 And I think it was just kind of piece milled together before,

01:34:46.280 --> 01:34:48.280
 and we're kind of going through that now

01:34:48.280 --> 01:34:50.920
 because we're doing all of this stuff on Hickory,

01:34:50.920 --> 01:34:52.920
 and then we see that Welch and Sycamore

01:34:52.920 --> 01:34:58.280
 is going to be a really nice way to get into and across to downtown.

01:34:58.280 --> 01:35:01.400
 So it's just kind of like, do we do that now

01:35:01.400 --> 01:35:05.000
 to avoid Carol and Hickory where people are getting hit,

01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:06.600
 and it's really, really scary?

01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:12.120
 So I mean, I think we need to have a bigger, broader discussion on that.

01:35:12.120 --> 01:35:14.920
 But the other questions I have for this.

01:35:14.920 --> 01:35:22.680
 On Avenue E, currently on Hickory, at Avenue E, there's no bike lane.

01:35:22.680 --> 01:35:24.200
 Is it going to be a bike lane,

01:35:24.200 --> 01:35:27.000
 or is it just all of a sudden not a bike lane in that area,

01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:33.000
 and then it-- so our plan is to have a full bike lane of some sort

01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:35.480
 from Bonnie Bray all the way down.

01:35:35.480 --> 01:35:39.960
 Because right now it says bike lane ends,

01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:44.440
 and there's-- it just kind of like dots and ends.

01:35:44.440 --> 01:35:47.000
 And is that temporary for the construction?

01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:49.000
 I think they just haven't striped it yet.

01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:50.200
 They have not striped it.

01:35:50.200 --> 01:35:51.160
 I think it's temporary.

01:35:51.160 --> 01:35:52.840
 The bike lane should extend all the way.

01:35:52.840 --> 01:35:53.480
 All the way through.

01:35:53.480 --> 01:35:54.280
 So that's the plan.

01:35:54.280 --> 01:35:57.320
 Okay, I just wanted to confirm that as well.

01:35:57.320 --> 01:36:02.840
 And as far as it being a one-way street, Hickory,

01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:06.040
 does that mean the bike lane is a one-way bike lane?

01:36:06.040 --> 01:36:06.600
 Correct.

01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:07.880
 It's only one direction.

01:36:07.880 --> 01:36:11.400
 And so on-- you just said a boy band.

01:36:11.400 --> 01:36:17.880
 And so on the Oak Street, is that going to be the same?

01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:20.680
 Is that how people are going to move back and get--

01:36:20.680 --> 01:36:21.080
 Correct.

01:36:21.080 --> 01:36:23.000
 It's the same direction of the traffic.

01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:24.600
 Bike lanes are designed that way.

01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:28.600
 Right, and so Oak, though, is going to be redone.

01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:33.080
 And there's going to be a full bike lane as well on Oak,

01:36:33.080 --> 01:36:35.480
 like we are expecting on Hickory from--

01:36:35.480 --> 01:36:39.320
 That's part of the master plan, yes, correct.

01:36:39.320 --> 01:36:39.820
 Okay.

01:36:39.820 --> 01:36:41.960
 I'm just trying to get a holistic view

01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:43.960
 to make sure that we're not just, you know,

01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:46.600
 thinking about these one or two blocks here

01:36:46.600 --> 01:36:48.280
 and putting all this thought into it,

01:36:48.280 --> 01:36:50.520
 and then nothing else makes any sense.

01:36:50.520 --> 01:36:51.640
 No, let's just do a piecemeal.

01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:54.840
 Right, well, I mean, we have done that before.

01:36:54.840 --> 01:36:55.400
 Sure.

01:36:55.400 --> 01:36:58.440
 So I'm just kind of going through here

01:36:58.440 --> 01:37:00.280
 and making sure all our questions get answered.

01:37:00.280 --> 01:37:04.520
 So I think that's pretty good for now.

01:37:04.520 --> 01:37:13.400
 Do we have any plans as a city to have a private lot

01:37:13.400 --> 01:37:16.920
 or a city parking lot anywhere in this area,

01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:19.480
 like we do in the downtown area?

01:37:19.480 --> 01:37:25.560
 Like on the northwest corner of Oak and A, for instance?

01:37:25.560 --> 01:37:27.720
 Well, somewhere, I mean, have we--

01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:29.320
 But not occupied?

01:37:29.320 --> 01:37:33.560
 At this point, I don't know, and we can look into this.

01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:37.080
 This is much more involved exercise and effort,

01:37:37.080 --> 01:37:40.520
 and I think it's beyond scope of what we're talking about.

01:37:40.520 --> 01:37:42.200
 Right, well, we're talking about removing parking.

01:37:42.200 --> 01:37:43.000
 Parking, correct.

01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:44.600
 And so for me to be comfortable

01:37:44.600 --> 01:37:46.600
 because the lifeline of businesses--

01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:51.400
 and I know that bicyclists use the businesses more

01:37:51.400 --> 01:37:52.440
 in their studies as well.

01:37:52.440 --> 01:37:55.000
 But in reality, those spaces are used,

01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:57.400
 and if they're not there, then those cars aren't there.

01:37:57.400 --> 01:37:59.320
 So I don't know if they're going to--

01:37:59.320 --> 01:38:02.440
 and in the study, we have parking behaviors,

01:38:02.440 --> 01:38:04.760
 but I didn't see any pedestrian behaviors

01:38:04.760 --> 01:38:08.040
 or bicycle behaviors in that same count

01:38:08.040 --> 01:38:09.640
 unless they were all included.

01:38:09.640 --> 01:38:15.400
 Oh, right, the purpose of the camera

01:38:15.400 --> 01:38:18.920
 was just to record parking.

01:38:18.920 --> 01:38:24.360
 The camera has great data, has 10 gigabytes worth of data,

01:38:24.360 --> 01:38:27.320
 I mean, like a week's worth in three-hour chunks.

01:38:27.320 --> 01:38:30.440
 And so we had an intern with the consultant

01:38:30.440 --> 01:38:34.760
 go through nine or 12 hours of it, sort of picked randomly.

01:38:34.760 --> 01:38:40.680
 So it was just a matter of not having the manpower and time

01:38:40.680 --> 01:38:43.080
 to go through it with a fine-tooth comb.

01:38:43.080 --> 01:38:45.960
 OK, well, ultimately, I just-- my goal is to make sure

01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:48.760
 that this area is walkable and safe

01:38:48.760 --> 01:38:50.840
 and friendly to the pedestrians

01:38:50.840 --> 01:38:53.320
 because it is heavily used and accessed.

01:38:53.320 --> 01:38:57.960
 And it's crazy right now, and I just want to make sure--

01:38:57.960 --> 01:39:01.560
 because I see lots of good suggestions and options,

01:39:01.560 --> 01:39:03.160
 but I don't think that they're all--

01:39:03.160 --> 01:39:05.240
 if you do this, you can't do this or do this.

01:39:05.240 --> 01:39:08.840
 I don't-- I think that at least there's one good suggestion

01:39:08.840 --> 01:39:11.080
 in each option that can all be combined

01:39:11.080 --> 01:39:14.520
 to make sure that we are doing our everything we can

01:39:14.520 --> 01:39:18.840
 to calm traffic, protect the bicyclists,

01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:23.000
 and alleviate some of the parking issues.

01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:24.600
 Still, three is your lead?

01:39:24.600 --> 01:39:25.800
 I want it all.

01:39:25.800 --> 01:39:29.000
 I want my cake and I'm going to eat it too.

01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:30.760
 Because I was going to articulate a consensus

01:39:30.760 --> 01:39:34.200
 that centered around three, you know,

01:39:34.200 --> 01:39:38.680
 at least investigating UNT and tree issues.

01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:40.600
 But are you not there anymore?

01:39:41.400 --> 01:39:42.520
 No, I am.

01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:47.240
 I think that three is good, but I do want to also ask

01:39:47.240 --> 01:39:49.800
 about bicycle lights because I've been in cities

01:39:49.800 --> 01:39:53.320
 where bicycle lanes have actual lights

01:39:53.320 --> 01:39:55.720
 and the traffic has to pay attention to them.

01:39:55.720 --> 01:39:59.800
 And if that would help alleviate some of the turning issues.

01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:04.200
 So if the bicycles get the light ahead of time and then--

01:40:04.200 --> 01:40:05.880
 I mean, I don't know, of course,

01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:07.880
 but that's just a question I have

01:40:07.880 --> 01:40:09.240
 that I'd like to explore on that.

01:40:09.240 --> 01:40:14.680
 Because that part seems to be a big concern for the cyclist.

01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:17.560
 Okay, yeah, we can look into bicycle lights

01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:19.080
 if we can implement them.

01:40:19.080 --> 01:40:19.580
 Okay.

01:40:19.580 --> 01:40:26.440
 Do you accept that as consensus direction?

01:40:26.440 --> 01:40:29.640
 That, you know, I would like to investigate the do-ability

01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:33.640
 of three, you know, taking into account UNT's willingness

01:40:33.640 --> 01:40:37.000
 and our ability to move around the trees

01:40:37.000 --> 01:40:39.480
 and keep them healthy and extant.

01:40:39.480 --> 01:40:42.200
 And then a second option, if not?

01:40:42.200 --> 01:40:45.640
 What are you saying?

01:40:45.640 --> 01:40:46.600
 Oh, do we need to--

01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:47.800
 Do you want to, well, I don't know.

01:40:47.800 --> 01:40:53.640
 I'd rather wait on that to see whether other--

01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:56.280
 you know, I want to address what the other options are

01:40:56.280 --> 01:40:58.600
 for adding parking to the area, right?

01:40:58.600 --> 01:41:00.520
 And have that part of that conversation

01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:03.560
 rather than say default right away to something else.

01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:05.880
 That's taking into account the other parts of the picture.

01:41:05.880 --> 01:41:06.840
 That's where I'd be.

01:41:06.840 --> 01:41:07.340
 Okay.

01:41:07.340 --> 01:41:10.200
 So that's our direction.

01:41:10.200 --> 01:41:13.800
 So if there's no other comments, I'm going to close that item.

01:41:13.800 --> 01:41:14.520
 Thank you very much.

01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:16.200
 Thank you, everyone who came to speak.

01:41:16.200 --> 01:41:19.480
 And I hope you felt your influence, all of you.

01:41:19.480 --> 01:41:23.160
 Mr. Chair, I would like for Preetam to address just the timing

01:41:23.160 --> 01:41:26.760
 because I think one of the reasons why this item's here is--

01:41:26.760 --> 01:41:28.040
 Because they're working on the road right now.

01:41:28.040 --> 01:41:29.320
 Well, we've got to stripe it, you know.

01:41:29.320 --> 01:41:32.280
 So what do we do in regards, I mean, if we're working with UNT--

01:41:32.280 --> 01:41:35.320
 You've got to call UNT, sounds like step one.

01:41:35.320 --> 01:41:37.160
 We'll do that, but just--

01:41:37.160 --> 01:41:38.200
 Any other advice you need?

01:41:38.200 --> 01:41:40.680
 We will do that.

01:41:40.680 --> 01:41:45.400
 But the plan is to wrap these two segments by summer

01:41:45.400 --> 01:41:47.800
 and make sure that we're strapping is back,

01:41:47.800 --> 01:41:51.640
 whatever parking we had and/or the bike lane is back in.

01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:55.160
 And then we're going to work from the section from Welch to Carroll,

01:41:55.160 --> 01:41:55.960
 we'll work on that.

01:41:55.960 --> 01:41:57.800
 We're still in design phase for that.

01:41:57.800 --> 01:41:59.480
 But we're going to get out of this area

01:41:59.480 --> 01:42:04.520
 and be done with construction and not wait with tabs on the street

01:42:04.520 --> 01:42:06.600
 and waiting for some decisions to happen.

01:42:06.600 --> 01:42:10.840
 So we have to make quick decisions.

01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:13.640
 I feel the option three requires a lot of design,

01:42:13.640 --> 01:42:18.600
 right of way considerations, exchange of access easements,

01:42:18.600 --> 01:42:21.880
 as well as coordination with UNT.

01:42:21.880 --> 01:42:24.360
 With all due respect, you showed it to us as an option.

01:42:24.360 --> 01:42:26.680
 And I feel entitled to take it.

01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:28.760
 You can't tell me now, oh, it's too hard.

01:42:28.760 --> 01:42:31.560
 I think you have to do it, you know, see what it means to do it.

01:42:31.560 --> 01:42:33.320
 And then take it to council, obviously.

01:42:33.320 --> 01:42:36.600
 It's not a matter of you can or cannot do it.

01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:38.840
 It's a matter of what do we do as an interim.

01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:41.000
 We're moving forward with our street project.

01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:42.280
 There needs to be a direction.

01:42:42.280 --> 01:42:46.680
 Let's go ahead and get back to what it is, what it was.

01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:48.920
 Are you telling me it's impossible to do that on this timing

01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:50.840
 or we just don't know if it's possible?

01:42:50.840 --> 01:42:53.960
 I think you ought to find-- my opinion is we've got to find out

01:42:53.960 --> 01:42:56.200
 if it's possible on the timing that you desire.

01:42:56.200 --> 01:43:03.160
 Yeah, I think it would be difficult to design this whole thing.

01:43:03.880 --> 01:43:06.360
 Within the few months that we have,

01:43:06.360 --> 01:43:08.840
 because we have to get this designed.

01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:12.280
 It has to be engineered design because of the retaining walls,

01:43:12.280 --> 01:43:15.240
 stormwater improvements or stormwater inlets

01:43:15.240 --> 01:43:20.360
 that have been in the ground for I would say more than 50 years.

01:43:20.360 --> 01:43:27.320
 So it would be difficult to get something designed

01:43:27.320 --> 01:43:30.760
 and construction ready in the timeframe we're talking about

01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:31.880
 for option number three.

01:43:33.320 --> 01:43:37.240
 I don't know, if you tell me it's difficult,

01:43:37.240 --> 01:43:38.920
 okay, we do lots of things that are difficult.

01:43:38.920 --> 01:43:40.200
 I mean, if you're telling me it can't be done,

01:43:40.200 --> 01:43:42.040
 then I think that--

01:43:42.040 --> 01:43:46.040
 Let's go back and take a look at it and just get the,

01:43:46.040 --> 01:43:47.800
 you know, with work with the consultants to see

01:43:47.800 --> 01:43:50.360
 from an engineering perspective what can be done.

01:43:50.360 --> 01:43:55.160
 We can make our-- we can start working with our partners at UNT

01:43:55.160 --> 01:44:00.520
 to certainly solidify the space and then work through that.

01:44:00.520 --> 01:44:02.920
 I mean, you're right, if that's an option,

01:44:02.920 --> 01:44:05.880
 if it was placed on there, then it's doable.

01:44:05.880 --> 01:44:08.120
 So we need just to be able to work through those things.

01:44:08.120 --> 01:44:10.120
 There's a fantasy, it should have been labeled as a fantasy.

01:44:10.120 --> 01:44:15.640
 Just add a unicorn stamp to it.

01:44:15.640 --> 01:44:20.280
 You put it on the menu, you know, we ordered it.

01:44:20.280 --> 01:44:23.800
 So what I'm hearing is we move forward with strapping the parking

01:44:23.800 --> 01:44:25.800
 the way it is and then we'll work on option three,

01:44:25.800 --> 01:44:28.360
 which is offside, which is on the UNT side.

01:44:29.720 --> 01:44:34.520
 And that's a fair direction now.

01:44:34.520 --> 01:44:36.200
 That's the opposite of what was just said.

01:44:36.200 --> 01:44:38.680
 So I think what you're saying is that right now,

01:44:38.680 --> 01:44:41.320
 you have to do the road work.

01:44:41.320 --> 01:44:46.120
 So can you not just leave it unpainted and unstriped

01:44:46.120 --> 01:44:47.640
 while it continues down?

01:44:47.640 --> 01:44:52.520
 Because King's Row has not had striping for like five months.

01:44:52.520 --> 01:44:56.520
 Like it's been micro sealed, but no striping.

01:44:56.520 --> 01:44:59.800
 So I mean, it's like chalked on there.

01:44:59.800 --> 01:45:04.120
 But it has, so I mean, I don't know if we can chalk or...

01:45:04.120 --> 01:45:06.120
 It becomes tough in this area with parking.

01:45:06.120 --> 01:45:08.600
 Then if you don't have space to strive,

01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:11.000
 then people park on the curb, on the curb,

01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:12.360
 it becomes a safety hazard.

01:45:12.360 --> 01:45:14.120
 That's where I'm coming from.

01:45:14.120 --> 01:45:16.600
 I'm personally willing to entertain this conversation.

01:45:16.600 --> 01:45:19.800
 Well, it dovetails perfectly into the next item,

01:45:19.800 --> 01:45:21.720
 which is meeting times and dates.

01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:25.400
 And I think you see a willingness to take extra steps

01:45:25.400 --> 01:45:28.200
 to be supportive on the part of committee members.

01:45:28.200 --> 01:45:30.760
 And if you need us to come back quickly

01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:31.880
 when you have more information,

01:45:31.880 --> 01:45:33.960
 but the direction that you heard from Mario

01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:37.800
 is the opposite of what you said, which is go find out.

01:45:37.800 --> 01:45:40.360
 Difficult, but doable or not.

01:45:40.360 --> 01:45:43.720
 And maybe you'll know more in not that much time,

01:45:43.720 --> 01:45:48.520
 whether or not you can achieve this unrealistic timing.

01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:50.600
 But I'm not for bait and switch.

01:45:50.600 --> 01:45:51.960
 I know you didn't intend it that way,

01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:54.680
 but that's how it ends up feeling.

01:45:54.680 --> 01:45:55.720
 We'll take a look at it.

01:45:55.720 --> 01:45:58.440
 - I have one more comment on this,

01:45:58.440 --> 01:46:00.040
 because what we talked about parking,

01:46:00.040 --> 01:46:03.560
 but we didn't talk about enforcement of parking

01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.840
 and metered parking.

01:46:04.840 --> 01:46:11.840
 And I do think that if this committee wants to make sure

01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:12.600
 that parking is there,

01:46:12.600 --> 01:46:15.480
 we need to make sure that it's enforced somehow.

01:46:15.480 --> 01:46:20.760
 And I know that meters may be an option.

01:46:20.760 --> 01:46:23.400
 I hope, I don't know if I would like for that

01:46:23.400 --> 01:46:27.240
 to come back in the conversation, because it's, yeah.

01:46:27.240 --> 01:46:28.440
 If it's not going to be,

01:46:28.440 --> 01:46:31.960
 if it's two hour free parking right now,

01:46:31.960 --> 01:46:33.240
 it's not enforced.

01:46:33.240 --> 01:46:36.040
 And so there needs to be some mechanism of that

01:46:36.040 --> 01:46:39.560
 or an idea of how we're going to handle the parking

01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:40.760
 and the movement of the cars.

01:46:40.760 --> 01:46:43.240
 - So potentially come bring back the meters

01:46:43.240 --> 01:46:44.520
 that were removed from.

01:46:44.520 --> 01:46:46.600
 - But being city, not university.

01:46:46.600 --> 01:46:47.080
 - Oh, I see.

01:46:47.080 --> 01:46:49.720
 - And then we can pay for all the replanting

01:46:49.720 --> 01:46:51.560
 of the flowers and the flower boxes.

01:46:51.560 --> 01:46:53.880
 - Well, we can also look at, you know, there's some

01:46:53.880 --> 01:46:55.800
 smart options, you know, with parking.

01:46:55.800 --> 01:46:58.120
 They're being used in other parts of the country.

01:46:58.120 --> 01:47:00.280
 - But, you know, I'd say that would be an item

01:47:00.280 --> 01:47:01.160
 for us to then review.

01:47:01.160 --> 01:47:05.560
 I, you know, I don't know if, you know,

01:47:05.560 --> 01:47:07.080
 Pratima's landed on that, but I would need,

01:47:07.080 --> 01:47:08.760
 you know, more discussion on those options.

01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:11.560
 And it's a whole separate piece, you know.

01:47:11.560 --> 01:47:14.440
 I understand the impulse, but it's definitely,

01:47:14.440 --> 01:47:18.520
 you know, an unaddressed issue.

01:47:19.960 --> 01:47:21.800
 - So are we okay to close the item?

01:47:21.800 --> 01:47:26.920
 Yeah, Pratima, I'm sorry, I'm squeezing your shoes,

01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:29.080
 but, you know, you put me in a box.

01:47:29.080 --> 01:47:31.400
 We put each other mutually in a box.

01:47:31.400 --> 01:47:33.000
 Let's enjoy being in a box for a little while.

01:47:33.000 --> 01:47:35.880
 But, you know, it's not a personal thing.

01:47:35.880 --> 01:47:38.920
 So, okay, I'm going to close out item C.

01:47:38.920 --> 01:47:42.200
 Let's move on to item D, identify,

01:47:42.200 --> 01:47:44.760
 discuss meeting times, dates, and provide direction

01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:47.880
 for future mobility committee meeting dates and times.

01:47:48.680 --> 01:47:49.880
 Did you have a proposal?

01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:53.800
 - So the reason this item is being considered,

01:47:53.800 --> 01:47:58.280
 I think a few months ago, we came to the committee

01:47:58.280 --> 01:48:02.600
 and we talked about what day we wanted to pick.

01:48:02.600 --> 01:48:04.760
 And I think there was a consensus on Tuesday

01:48:04.760 --> 01:48:07.080
 being the right day because you were here for council.

01:48:07.080 --> 01:48:11.800
 And it would be, it would work out as a whole day

01:48:11.800 --> 01:48:13.560
 for all of you to be here.

01:48:13.560 --> 01:48:17.240
 Now, recently, I think there were some changes

01:48:17.240 --> 01:48:21.000
 and the council start date has been shifted up.

01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:23.880
 It's no longer, I think it's moving towards

01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:25.720
 not being one o'clock or two o'clock,

01:48:25.720 --> 01:48:27.880
 which was originally in the works,

01:48:27.880 --> 01:48:31.800
 to being more of a noon start time.

01:48:31.800 --> 01:48:35.240
 Given that, if our start time was still 10,

01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:38.360
 that only gave us an hour, not even hour and a half,

01:48:38.360 --> 01:48:41.480
 because they need that space for one hour to prep.

01:48:41.480 --> 01:48:44.920
 That's the reason this is on the agenda,

01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:49.800
 is do we wanna consider to move that 10 o'clock timeline

01:48:49.800 --> 01:48:51.800
 to a nine o'clock where we meet in the morning

01:48:51.800 --> 01:48:55.800
 and that gives at a minimum two hours until 11.

01:48:55.800 --> 01:48:59.720
 And then we can move forward to the council meeting

01:48:59.720 --> 01:49:00.920
 from that point.

01:49:00.920 --> 01:49:03.160
 Is that something that is acceptable?

01:49:03.160 --> 01:49:04.920
 Because that's the recommendation.

01:49:04.920 --> 01:49:06.040
 We're not changing the date

01:49:06.040 --> 01:49:09.240
 because I think it worked well for everyone on the committee.

01:49:09.240 --> 01:49:11.400
 We're just recommending let's get some more time

01:49:11.400 --> 01:49:15.160
 because every time you hear we're running out of time,

01:49:15.160 --> 01:49:16.120
 we're getting squeezed.

01:49:16.120 --> 01:49:17.800
 - Yeah, and I think the other thing, too,

01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:20.600
 that Preetam's not mentioning is trying to be respectful

01:49:20.600 --> 01:49:25.400
 of the fact that you are here for basically all of Tuesday,

01:49:25.400 --> 01:49:28.120
 especially if we start at nine or 10 or whatever,

01:49:28.120 --> 01:49:31.320
 depending on that evening's agenda, it could be very long.

01:49:31.320 --> 01:49:34.200
 So just being cognizant of your time.

01:49:34.200 --> 01:49:36.680
 And again, we were trying to start a two o'clock work session

01:49:36.680 --> 01:49:38.840
 but starting to pare back to,

01:49:38.840 --> 01:49:41.000
 we're starting to extend to starting at noon.

01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:43.400
 And so just, we need the time

01:49:43.400 --> 01:49:45.000
 to be able to bring items to you all.

01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:47.000
 But they also need the time in this room

01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:47.960
 to prep for the meetings,

01:49:47.960 --> 01:49:51.160
 unless we want to decide to use a different meeting,

01:49:51.160 --> 01:49:52.280
 which would be the council chambers.

01:49:52.280 --> 01:49:54.840
 But it does change the dynamics of the meetings

01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:55.720
 if you're not in here.

01:49:55.720 --> 01:49:57.080
 - Y'all, references?

01:49:57.080 --> 01:50:03.080
 - I do want to point out that that conference space

01:50:03.080 --> 01:50:04.520
 is not videotaped.

01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:08.360
 So we can't really, council chambers, okay.

01:50:11.240 --> 01:50:13.800
 - How do you feel about going earlier?

01:50:13.800 --> 01:50:14.920
 - I'm fine with earlier.

01:50:14.920 --> 01:50:18.360
 - Okay, so 7.30.

01:50:18.360 --> 01:50:21.800
 - I'm just thinking 6.30.

01:50:21.800 --> 01:50:23.000
 That's what I do on Wednesday mornings.

01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:24.760
 - Well, I'm gonna sleep down a little bit.

01:50:24.760 --> 01:50:30.920
 Yeah, so I don't hear any problem with nine.

01:50:30.920 --> 01:50:33.560
 And I truly wouldn't mind going earlier myself.

01:50:33.560 --> 01:50:35.960
 - I have to get my kids to school.

01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:37.320
 - Nine is the earliest.

01:50:37.320 --> 01:50:38.920
 - And I think if we could start at nine

01:50:38.920 --> 01:50:43.000
 and just sort of kind of get to a hard stop

01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:44.360
 around 11, 10, 11, 15.

01:50:44.360 --> 01:50:46.920
 It gives the staff enough time to prep the room,

01:50:46.920 --> 01:50:49.080
 make sure that all the video equipment is working

01:50:49.080 --> 01:50:51.880
 and everything is prepped for the use of the council.

01:50:51.880 --> 01:50:53.160
 I think that'll help.

01:50:53.160 --> 01:50:53.480
 - Okay.

01:50:53.480 --> 01:51:00.600
 I'd like to do concluding items first

01:51:00.600 --> 01:51:04.520
 before item E, if that's all right.

01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:09.000
 What item E is, is we're all gonna go on a walk.

01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:12.760
 And I think members of the public could tag along.

01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:14.040
 Yes, no, right?

01:51:14.040 --> 01:51:15.320
 It's an open meeting.

01:51:15.320 --> 01:51:18.440
 But easier to do concluding items

01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:19.800
 while we're still sitting here.

01:51:19.800 --> 01:51:26.520
 So entertain any concluding items?

01:51:26.520 --> 01:51:29.880
 - I do have one.

01:51:29.880 --> 01:51:30.920
 I think I brought this up before,

01:51:30.920 --> 01:51:32.520
 but I haven't seen it on the matrix.

01:51:32.520 --> 01:51:39.080
 And that is the stoplight at Oak and Avenue C,

01:51:39.080 --> 01:51:42.920
 which is with Oak being a one-way street.

01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:47.400
 If you're walking in the opposite direction of traffic,

01:51:47.400 --> 01:51:50.600
 there is no way to know what that light is doing

01:51:50.600 --> 01:51:52.120
 without having to look back over your shoulder

01:51:52.120 --> 01:51:54.040
 if it changes when you're midstream.

01:51:54.040 --> 01:51:56.600
 There's not a crosswalk signal on that

01:51:56.600 --> 01:52:00.200
 for people walking eastbound on Oak Street.

01:52:03.160 --> 01:52:06.440
 - There it goes.

01:52:06.440 --> 01:52:07.800
 - Good.

01:52:07.800 --> 01:52:13.080
 - Well, actually, I would like to have this committee review

01:52:13.080 --> 01:52:17.560
 all the Sherman updates just so that it's out there

01:52:17.560 --> 01:52:19.240
 and can be reviewed by the public.

01:52:19.240 --> 01:52:21.800
 I know that there's a lot of stuff going on.

01:52:21.800 --> 01:52:24.120
 And we had the traffic study,

01:52:24.120 --> 01:52:25.880
 and it was presented in an item.

01:52:25.880 --> 01:52:28.600
 But just if it's as an individual thing,

01:52:28.600 --> 01:52:32.920
 of all the information we found out

01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:35.320
 so that it can be on the record

01:52:35.320 --> 01:52:37.080
 and people can go back and review it all.

01:52:37.080 --> 01:52:39.720
 That way I can quit emailing all the time

01:52:39.720 --> 01:52:41.720
 about individual things that I keep forgetting.

01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:43.000
 - You would like it as a presentation?

01:52:43.000 --> 01:52:43.720
 - Yeah, yeah.

01:52:43.720 --> 01:52:45.000
 - Okay, the upcoming meeting, okay.

01:52:45.000 --> 01:52:47.880
 - Yeah, like the light at the loop in Sherman

01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:51.080
 and some timing of the things.

01:52:51.080 --> 01:52:51.480
 Thank you.

01:52:51.480 --> 01:52:53.960
 - All right, so I have three somewhere

01:52:53.960 --> 01:52:55.240
 just to make sure we got them.

01:52:56.280 --> 01:53:00.680
 One is like an informal staff report

01:53:00.680 --> 01:53:03.880
 potentially leading to consideration

01:53:03.880 --> 01:53:08.520
 in this committee of Fry Street one-erf possibilities.

01:53:08.520 --> 01:53:15.080
 Second, we'd like us to have a discussion

01:53:15.080 --> 01:53:21.080
 in this committee on parking expansion options

01:53:21.080 --> 01:53:23.560
 around the Fry Street area.

01:53:24.360 --> 01:53:27.400
 And I note specifically whether there's an opportunity

01:53:27.400 --> 01:53:30.200
 on the northwest corner of Fry and West Oak.

01:53:30.200 --> 01:53:36.040
 And third, different subject.

01:53:36.040 --> 01:53:38.280
 At some point I'd like us to have

01:53:38.280 --> 01:53:40.360
 a comprehensive discussion about

01:53:40.360 --> 01:53:45.640
 pedestrian and bike crossing options planned

01:53:45.640 --> 01:53:48.680
 for getting across the major

01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:52.120
 pedestrian and bike barriers in the city.

01:53:52.120 --> 01:53:56.120
 35, University Drive, Bonnie Bray,

01:53:56.120 --> 01:53:59.400
 present and future, north and south loop 288.

01:53:59.400 --> 01:54:01.400
 It's just not obvious where you go.

01:54:01.400 --> 01:54:05.400
 And so can avoid cutting the city

01:54:05.400 --> 01:54:07.080
 into completely into separate pieces.

01:54:07.080 --> 01:54:09.240
 You know, it'd be great to have a discussion

01:54:09.240 --> 01:54:11.480
 about how we envision pedestrian

01:54:11.480 --> 01:54:14.120
 and bike connectivity at some point.

01:54:14.120 --> 01:54:15.960
 And Council Member Briggs, you had your final.

01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:17.880
 - No, well just to that point

01:54:17.880 --> 01:54:19.160
 because you mentioned Bonnie Bray

01:54:19.160 --> 01:54:20.920
 and connectivity with pedestrians

01:54:20.920 --> 01:54:23.560
 and right there at Razor Branch on Bonnie Bray

01:54:23.560 --> 01:54:26.600
 there's a bus stop, but there's no connectivity to it

01:54:26.600 --> 01:54:28.840
 so people are crossing, just they're jaywalking

01:54:28.840 --> 01:54:30.920
 from the shopping center to the bus stop

01:54:30.920 --> 01:54:32.040
 on the other side of Torchy.

01:54:32.040 --> 01:54:34.360
 So I don't know how we address that,

01:54:34.360 --> 01:54:36.040
 but in that conversation

01:54:36.040 --> 01:54:42.040
 add bus stops to the connectivity, maybe.

01:54:42.040 --> 01:54:44.280
 - They're about Torchy's?

01:54:44.280 --> 01:54:49.400
 - So I'm gonna close concluding items

01:54:50.040 --> 01:54:53.560
 and I'm gonna open item E which is receive a report,

01:54:53.560 --> 01:54:55.080
 hold the discussion and conduct a walking

01:54:55.080 --> 01:54:57.320
 toward the downtown square and provide direction.

01:54:57.320 --> 01:54:59.720
 I'm opening it only to say we're gonna close

01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:04.520
 the indoors portion of that item

01:55:04.520 --> 01:55:07.960
 and go ahead and take this walk

01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:13.880
 and I'll close that aspect of the item shortly

01:55:13.880 --> 01:55:17.320
 and ask that it come on a future agenda

01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:21.400
 for us to discuss our observations from that walk.

01:55:21.400 --> 01:55:24.600
 So with that having been said, I'm closing the item

01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:27.800
 and I'm adjourning the meeting

01:55:27.800 --> 01:55:34.840
 at the indoor portion of the meeting at 3.55.