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 Good afternoon, and welcome to this extra meeting of the Mobility Committee of the City of Denton.

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 Seeing that we have a quorum, we will convene.

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 It is about 2.01 here at City Hall, and as a first item, this is kind of new,

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 but we have a blue card, a citizen wishing to speak on a couple of items for individual consideration.

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 Apparently, as chair, I can make the call to permit public comments,

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 but I'm going to ask for input from other committee members.

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 Is that acceptable to you if I include public comment?

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 Timing-wise, the comment should come, in my opinion, after the presentation and before we do deliberation.

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 I agree with that. Are you agreeable?

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 Okay. So we're going to allow that.

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 Our first item is item A, consider the approval of the Mobility Committee of the Denton City Council

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 meeting minutes of January 8th. I'll entertain a motion.

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 So moved.

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 Second.

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 Okay. And I don't believe we need a vote on minutes.

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 And then we'll move on to item B, receive a report, hold a discussion,

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 and provide staff direction regarding the regulation of motorized electric scooters on city rights of way.

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 Hi, everyone. My name is Mark Oliphant.

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 I'm the Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the City of Denton,

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 here to discuss electric scooters and how they can be regulated on city rights of way.

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 We have discussed this a little bit in the past, so I won't go into the same detail that I have in the past,

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 but just in general, a lot of other cities in Texas and throughout the United States are having these shared electric scooters,

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 and they're having different experiences with them.

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 They can be rented out using apps.

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 There are different sizes of scooters.

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 Some can be bought privately, like from amazon.com or something like that on the left.

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 These are very similar to those that are rented.

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 They cost about $500 on amazon.com.

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 On the right is the little red scooter.

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 That one is typically children and things like that.

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 That's a good size for them.

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 It's about 100 watts.

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 The others of these tend to have motors that are about 250 watts or greater.

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 So these services are very similar to Bike Share.

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 We have a Bike Share currently in the city, and that preceded these probably by about 10 years in the United States.

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 Just a quick comparison of benefits and drawbacks from using these e-scooters.

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 Some of the benefits are that they can replace short car trips.

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 It tends to be about one mile is the typical distance.

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 They're simple, they're accessible, they're affordable, environmentally friendly.

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 They've shown to be much more popular than Bike Share, actually.

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 We've heard up to 10 times more demand, more popularity, and they have a smaller footprint than Bike Share.

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 Now, some drawbacks.

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 There are some safety concerns.

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 Some ways the jury is still out on that a little bit.

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 But we've actually, just in the last few days since we turned in our readaheads for this, we've actually gotten two reports,

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 one from Journal of the American Medical Association and one from Portland, Oregon.

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 They did a 128 pilot, which I'll talk about.

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 Here, for now, the universities are not really interested, and that's a big thing we need to look at.

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 Best practices, these are so new that we don't really have good best practices yet as far as managing them and so forth.

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 And then just general questions about where can they be parked and ridden and things like that, which have to be.

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 We talked about this a little bit at the last presentation, so safety is a big issue.

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 These are just articles we pulled from national news outlets about some of the concerns about safety to Slidesworth.

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 And these articles keep coming.

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 So here's some interesting information about Portland.

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 They did a 120-day pilot report, which was just released, I think, last week, and just some of the data about it.

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 So in those 120 days, they had 700,000 trips covering 800,000 miles, so just a little over one mile per trip.

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 And that was on 2,000 scooters that were in the fleet throughout the city.

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 Now, just to compare with Denton, that's a city of about 650,000, and I think we're 150,000, 160,000.

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 But so interestingly, if you look at this, during that 120 days, there were only 176 visits to ERs and we call those other things urgent cares.

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 And so just stats on that, so that's one ER or urgent care visit per 4,500 miles of travel, or one ER visit per 4,000 trips.

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 Which I wonder if scooters are getting a bad rap because they are so

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 heavily used that the numbers skew upward, but that you actually have a lot more trips going on.

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 So I don't know that on a per trip basis or a per mile basis it's been established that they are that much more dangerous than other modes.

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 Talk about, we've seen this slide too, just what some of the other cities are doing.

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 In Dallas, they're all over the place right now, but Fort Worth doesn't do them.

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 Waco has also chosen not to do scooters for now.

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 And a reminder about what our powers are here.

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 Under the Texas transportation code, the city has the choice to prohibit or not these types of scooters.

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 That's the red type there.

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 So yourselves within the city council, this is within your power to decide whether or

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 not you want these operating within the city of Denton.

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 Currently, they kind of fall into a gray area, can they be considered a toy device?

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 Right now, the only place you could definitively say you can't have that is on the square,

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 where we have the prohibition on roller skates and bicycles and so forth.

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 So some of the options here, we have a spectrum of options of things to do.

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 When we were here a few weeks ago, we proposed a full prohibition for

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 now between transportation staff and legal staff talking it over.

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 That's the easiest from our perspective, but I know there was some hesitation about that.

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 So I'm going to talk about some other options that we've discussed since that time.

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 So there could be a partial ban there in the middle.

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 We could fully allow them, and then at the bottom, maybe just table it for

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 a couple of months because the current bike share authorization,

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 that does not, it will expire at the end of May unless action's taken.

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 And so it will need to be considered in the next three or four months here.

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 So major concerns though, really just the two things that stand out, or the two universities,

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 don't act like they're ready, although I will say I was on UNT yesterday.

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 And within the first five minutes, I encountered two electric vehicles, one a small bicycle and

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 one a scooter, which aren't supposed to be there.

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 But in many ways, I think this might be a tidal wave that is coming.

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 And just that they are so new that there's not a really good standard of practice out there

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 that we can just draw upon as far as operating hours or regulation, things like that.

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 But with this new information, literally in the last week,

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 Portland and American Medical Associates have released some information.

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 So what are possible actions?

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 We proposed complete ban there at the top originally, but so some others.

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 Banning shared scooter services only, our legal advisors were a little bit leery

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 to go that direction because we allow shared bikes.

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 And operators may come to us and say, well, what's the difference or we're going to sue you?

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 Why are you discriminating against the scooters versus the bikes?

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 I think arguments can be made though about safety and so forth, but that was a worry.

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 Another one is banning scooters with certain motor sizes.

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 I think there was some thought here, well, what if a kid got one for Christmas or something?

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 And 250 seems to be the turning point with the large professional scooters.

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 Being a 250 or above, or professional, well, adult for real use.

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 And whereas the toys tend to be smaller than that, so there could be some kind of a prohibition that says 249 or below is okay.

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 250 and above is not.

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 >> I've got a question, Councilmember Briggs.

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 >> What are the wattage of most of the scooter services?

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 >> Most seem to be 250, right at 250, the ones, the lime and bird.

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 >> Well, because you mentioned earlier the toy ones are about 100, and so from 100 to 250, that's kind of a lot, so.

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 >> Yeah, yeah.

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 >> I mean, and the toy ones are maybe for up to 120 pounds or something, whereas the others, I think, are about 250 pounds, something like that, that we can accommodate.

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 >> My original concern and the message I sent after the meeting was mostly specifically banning children's toys, so that-

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 >> Not wanting to.

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 >> Not wanting to, yes.

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 So I'm glad that this is back for more discussion.

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 >> I don't know about the 250, I'll have to think about that.

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 >> Okay, yeah, and then, of course, there could be, yeah.

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 >> It's kind of a question of whether or not it was discussed to see these options up there.

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 But banning on arterial collector, everything except for residential,

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 because that's going to still allow the children to be out in the street in front of their houses in a cul-de-sac, that type of an area.

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 But it's not going to encourage any shared scooter services to come into town,

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 because who's going to want to put something that can only be driven on a residential-rated street?

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 >> That's an interesting, yeah, Pritam, you want to?

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 >> Yeah, I think that can be an option that we can look into, because certainly,

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 they cannot use any portion of some of these arterial connectors that are long-distance connectors.

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 For example, between the University of UNT and downtown square, we have Hickory and Oak, which are arterials.

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 And if we ban them, then there are very few residential streets that directly connect.

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 So you have to get onto an arterial to connect.

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 So that is a possibility.

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 But also, within residential streets, there might be an issue of, do we even have sidewalks?

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 And if we don't, then where do children play?

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 So, then we open up a whole other discussion about that component.

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 >> Just to think about.

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 >> Well, what is state law for scooters that are 100 watts?

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 Because, I mean, we don't have sidewalks in a lot of areas, but we allow our children to ride the bikes.

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 Parents, normally, more likely to have insurance, you're going to have a level of safety with helmets and things.

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 >> Right. >> And personal responsibility on a more personal level.

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 And if you own your own scooter, then you would if you're just renting one for a mile.

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 >> Mm-hm, so this is the excerpt that we pulled.

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 I know we looked at this, I looked at this with legal.

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 I don't recall any any discussion of wattage of the motors.

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 I mean, and I think like for motorized, like gasoline internal combustion engines, there's like a 49 CC.

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 And I don't know if at some point so many watts of a motor becomes that or something, but unless.

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 >> So if you go to the next slide, I think the section 18-13 says vehicles and

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 toy devices are prohibited down sidewalks, especially in downtown.

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 But also, they're not allowed on the roadways, except for crosswalks.

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 So they're irrespective of if your toy device or

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 skateboard or roller board, they're not allowed on city streets currently.

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 >> So I just want to make sure I understand.

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 >> So in this rubric, you could use a toy vehicle on a sidewalk.

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 If you live in a neighborhood that doesn't have sidewalks, that's it.

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 >> Yes, I mean, you can't be riding on the streets.

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 >> I do want to add this, I talked to the city prosecutor about this issue.

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 She informed me that technically a child under ten cannot be given a ticket.

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 So whether that is a transportation ticket or a city ordinance ticket,

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 they're not allowed to ticket a child under ten because they don't have the culpability that would be necessary.

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 She said further, while city ordinances, it would be ten, you could be ticketed ten and up.

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 Said most of the time, an officer won't ticket a ten-year-old.

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 If they're doing something dangerous, they'll probably just call the parents.

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 But you can't receive a traffic citation until you're at least 14 years of age.

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 So some of these on the major streets, if they're impeding traffic, something like that, that could be considered a traffic ticket.

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 And if they're under the age of 14, they could technically not be ticketed for that either.

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 >> Okay.

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 >> So I wanted to pass that along.

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 >> Yeah.

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 >> How do you feel about getting through the rest of the presentation, hearing the citizen comment, and then continue deliberation?

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 >> Okay. >> I think that's it.

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 >> So, yeah, those are the option.

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 Allowing them is an option.

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 >> And then finally, table it, wait until May when the bike share is going to be reconsidered and

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 potentially wrap it up into all one package or something like that, and I think, yeah, that's it.

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 >> Okay, I'm going to follow what I just said.

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 Thank you, we do have a blue card.

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 Clay Thurman, if you want to come to the mic, let's try for three minutes and just state your name.

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 >> I may be able to do that.

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 Clay Thurman, 1524 Snyder, Denton.

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 And I'm on the Traffic Safety Commission, and this was a very conflicted vote to put this before the council.

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 And when this was given to us, there were only an up or down option.

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 So I'm glad to see that there's more options.

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 I did vote in favor of it because I was concerned about the bike share and

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 much of your presentation is oriented toward the bike share.

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 My reservation, which I harbor to this day, and I'm still conflicted over that vote,

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 is I'm concerned about the personal liberty of individuals and citizens to be out there and doing this.

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 I understand trying to hold off to get it wrapped up with bike share or something, which I think is a good idea.

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 But I'm concerned about the personal liberty of individual citizens, and that's my main thing right there.

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 As far as the city holding off on bike share, forbidding it for

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 bike share, contingent upon wrapping it up into the bike share program, I think that's okay.

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 We actually would have preferred that a moratorium be put out,

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 which is what our preferred language was, but that was not an option at that time.

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 >> I'm not sure I understand how moratorium fits with particularly the personal liberty concern.

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 >> Well, the moratorium on bike share services, scooter share, thank you.

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 >> Moratorium on services, but a lot of individuals.

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 >> Right, but I think it's something that you do need to put in to the bike share, and

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 I think getting that completed when it comes up in May would be a good idea.

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 But again, personal liberty is one of my concerns.

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 >> Thank you.

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 >> I'm glad to see that kids won't be ticketed.

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 >> Because I'm sure there's a lot of parents that bought some things at Christmas that are going to be rather ticked.

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 When they find that it's now illegal for their kids to be out there on that.

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 >> I don't want to see a rash of crimes executed with nine year olds.

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 >> Right, right, and I really don't see this as being much of an enforcement issue anyway.

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 >> So, okay.

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 >> Thank you, I have a question.

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 So if we take no action, what is the status quo?

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 What's true between now and May?

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 >> My understanding is that under current statute or ordinance, there is nothing that expressly prohibits and

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 there is nothing that expressly enables scooter share.

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 I know we have had some inquiries and we said, yeah, we talked about that and we don't want that.

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 Which was accurate.

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 It may not be on the books, but the initial feedback from speaking to council about this was that, well, we're not ready for this yet.

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 So if tomorrow, line came and dropped off scooters in the square, I don't know what our recourse would be.

213
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:15,400
 >> Yeah, so since you're already seeing scooters popping up and you know there's interest in other cities,

214
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,080
 you'll probably have to have a position one way or another.

215
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:18,720
 >> Great.

216
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,520
 >> That's just my opinion.

217
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,120
 Is that your hand raised or no?

218
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,120
 Okay.

219
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,120
 >> Oh, I thought you.

220
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,680
 >> I felt energy come in this way.

221
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,880
 >> Wow, it's a problem.

222
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:41,840
 You know, as Mr. Oliphant was mentioning, you know, we would not have a recourse, but it would be very similar to what we experienced last year with, was it V-Bikes?

223
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:42,440
 >> V-Bikes.

224
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,640
 >> V-Bikes, when they showed up on the square one day and there was a stack of them.

225
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:53,800
 And so we worked with the company to make sure that they would keep them in sort of an orderly fashion.

226
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:59,560
 But it was problematic, because on a windy day, they'd be knocked over, they'd be all over the square.

227
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,880
 We still have probably 20 or 30 at the service center that have yet to be retrieved,

228
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:12,080
 that have been found in trees or bushes or middle of ditches and lakes or ponds in the city.

229
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:21,640
 So it is a problem, and whether it's a moratorium or we wait until the end of May, we're still about four months.

230
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:31,160
 And we get sort of the information that we're getting on this bike share and then bring that item back to council to talk about the policy from both perspectives.

231
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:38,240
 You know, we're just kind of, at this point, just kind of taking our chances.

232
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,840
 But I will say, the entity or entities that have reached out to our office,

233
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:49,640
 they've at least called to inquire about what they would need to do to come into the city, as opposed to showing up.

234
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,280
 And I would hope that they would continue to do that.

235
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,440
 And our message has been that our city council has given instructions to not allow it,

236
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,720
 but there's nothing on the books that keep from preventing it as well.

237
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,320
 >> Let me see if we can take this a chunk at a time.

238
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:14,600
 On the shared programs, I think the consensus, correct me if you don't agree,

239
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:19,960
 is we're taking your guidance that kind of the data's not fully in yet on safety.

240
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:25,560
 So we don't want to do it now, but we want to be able to look at it again at some future point and reassess.

241
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:32,120
 So is May a point at which we will actually know enough, or does that just happen to line up with bike share?

242
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,600
 >> Well, I think some things could happen between now and then.

243
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:41,400
 I have not had the chance to read all the way through the Portland report, or the JAMA report.

244
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,080
 I know that the bike share provider for UNT and for the city,

245
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,400
 the currently permitted one that's working well, they'll ride.

246
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:56,920
 They do have aspirations to bring in electric bicycles, potentially, and scooters.

247
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,840
 And I know they need to talk to the universities about that.

248
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:07,480
 So I think some important conversations could go on in the next three or four months about this.

249
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,960
 And perhaps the universities could change their minds, or

250
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,920
 could at least become more educated about them, and so forth.

251
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,040
 So I think a number of things could happen, actually, between now and then.

252
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,080
 I'm told also Vail Ride has a prototype of the scooter, and I've said, hey, bring that by.

253
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,360
 Let's see what that might look like, you know?

254
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,080
 So we're all just, we're all learning about this, and-

255
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,520
 >> Council Member Brooks.

256
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,880
 >> So for legal, the difference between a temporary ban and a moratorium, isn't it the same thing?

257
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,120
 I mean, and if you have a moratorium, do you have to have an end date?

258
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:48,600
 I mean, because what if, for some reason, we weren't ready in May, would we be required to discuss it?

259
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,360
 If we weren't ready yet with the scooters, the scooter share?

260
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:56,560
 >> Technically, it's going to end up being the same, it's going to be the same effect either way you go.

261
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:02,960
 It's that you're going to have to come back for council action to do something to change whatever your original decision is.

262
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:08,280
 If you want to call that a moratorium, or if you want to call that a temporary prohibition,

263
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:15,960
 either way, even if you don't use the word temporary, it's going to be that because council can decide to come back and change its mind later.

264
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,680
 So if we call this a prohibition on electric scooters now, and just put that in the books,

265
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,840
 y'all can come back in May, you can come back in October, you can come back whenever,

266
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,800
 you can decide that you're going to amend that prohibition, and you can put in, change it either.

267
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,520
 At that point, it would, I mean, you can have this entire discussion over again at that point.

268
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,240
 You don't have to change just part of it, you can change the whole thing at that time.

269
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,560
 >> Everything is temporary.

270
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,280
 >> Right, exactly.

271
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,240
 >> In life, okay.

272
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,640
 >> Turn, turn, turn.

273
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,240
 >> Yeah, so I would entertain just as taking this a piece of time.

274
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,760
 To me, that sounds rushed, maybe we'll know some things, maybe we won't.

275
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,400
 The inclination on the fleet thing is, give us a year, look at it again in a year.

276
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:06,400
 And I don't care what you call it, I don't mind saying explicitly that it's a one year thing,

277
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,280
 to set expectations for industry that we're going to look at it again.

278
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:19,800
 But to say a one year moratorium pending what we learned about safety from experiences in other cities.

279
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,360
 Anything?

280
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,200
 >> I would agree.

281
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:34,560
 Some of the data that's on the Portland slide, if you can bring that up on the number of visits to emergency rooms and urgent care.

282
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,160
 Without having anything to compare, what does the bike share have in that?

283
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:46,320
 It's impossible to know, is that high, is that normal, is that low, is it, where does that really sit?

284
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,480
 It's just a set of numbers, but it's not usable data.

285
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,440
 >> That may be in the report, I just didn't have the time to read it.

286
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:04,920
 >> Of those 176 trips, how many of those were actual, the shared scooters, and how many were personal owned?

287
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,800
 That's another part of the data that I would like to see, to have a better feel for what this is.

288
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,120
 Because I would think that if you personally own it, you are going to have that helmet.

289
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:23,240
 You are going to be, you're going to use it with a little bit more, I don't know what word I want to use.

290
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,360
 >> Discretion.

291
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,400
 >> Yes, safety minded.

292
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,640
 And so I think really, the moratorium is about safety.

293
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,160
 I'd also like to know, we know Portland is 650 and we're 150.

294
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,360
 Okay, we know our OCI on our streets is 65, what's their OCI?

295
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:46,840
 Because the street conditions, that much better up there.

296
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,200
 That can be a huge difference on what the safety factor is.

297
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,320
 >> And how do you feel about a year?

298
00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,120
 And I want to ask Council Member Briggs that question as well.

299
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,720
 >> I'm fine with a year.

300
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,680
 I think we do need to bring something forward as quickly as possible to council.

301
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,760
 Just to make sure that we don't have somebody come in in the dark of night.

302
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,920
 >> Yeah, and Council Member Briggs, what's your thoughts on that?

303
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:20,120
 >> I'm good with a moratorium or prohibition on the shared scooter services.

304
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:28,520
 I'm not particularly, I mean, having the time limit in there isn't one year or

305
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:35,000
 whatever isn't particularly important to me because it could be less than a year if more data comes or

306
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,720
 if someone approaches us or if UNT decides to come to us.

307
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,880
 I mean, I guess if you have a year, then that doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait a year, right?

308
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,280
 I mean, you could come back earlier.

309
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,360
 >> You can always change anything.

310
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:50,960
 >> Okay, right, well, I just wanted to make sure that we weren't saying, well, you know.

311
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,200
 >> Yeah, just hard press.

312
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,880
 >> Well, we're binding ourselves to one year.

313
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,120
 >> But we have the key and-

314
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,480
 >> Right, well, yeah, okay.

315
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:04,880
 And so, and I just want to say too that there's other cities that originally probably started with a ban and

316
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,360
 then did the studies and came out and then said, okay, well, this is what we need.

317
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:12,280
 This is how we're going to approach it with policy and procedure.

318
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,200
 And so we were just at that stage where we need more data, we need to figure it out.

319
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:25,800
 So having this temporary ban or prohibition doesn't necessarily mean that our city is adamantly against them and will never allow them.

320
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,000
 Just wanted to go on record saying that for those out there.

321
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,960
 >> And I think we're all in that place.

322
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,120
 So is that enough direction on that piece of it, the fleet?

323
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,840
 >> And then I want to talk about the individually owned scooters, right?

324
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,440
 That's the thornier one, potentially.

325
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,320
 >> And I'm not terribly familiar with the mobility committee, so do you-

326
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,440
 >> We make recommendations to council, right?

327
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:57,320
 >> Yeah, I mean, do you go through Robert's Rules of Order right now to say, let's, or I don't have any consensus.

328
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,240
 >> We're asked to provide staff direction.

329
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,720
 >> Okay. >> So it's not a formal vote.

330
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:08,000
 So it's just staff direction, and consensus of the group was to, of the committee, was to move forward with X.

331
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,080
 And so we'll stick that forward.

332
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,440
 >> To move forward with the ban for a period of time might be a year, but

333
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:20,360
 it's until we are satisfied that we know enough about safety and

334
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:25,240
 about the comparability of other studies so that we can make a different determination.

335
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,880
 >> And specifically ban the shared services.

336
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,840
 >> And then I want to then take up, as a kind of separate item,

337
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,120
 how do we want to approach the Christmas gift issue, right, the toy issue.

338
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:38,120
 Because we've got a few ways to go.

339
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:47,880
 There's wattage, there's certain streets, there's, what were the other attributes?

340
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,360
 >> Yeah, certain streets.

341
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,840
 >> Or just universal, and there's, well, we've already learned.

342
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,760
 We can't go without sidewalks.

343
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:09,040
 So, I think the cleanest thing is a ban's a ban.

344
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,480
 But I sense some interest in, well, certainly in the part of the speaker we had,

345
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,840
 but some interest in protecting the rights of individual Christmas gift recipients.

346
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600
 Because having heard all the options, does anyone else have a leaning?

347
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:33,040
 I mean, I'll offer one if I, you know, if no one else will.

348
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,320
 >> I'm for option two or three,

349
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:44,240
 with motor sizes smaller than allowing scooters 200 or less.

350
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:51,400
 I don't, I think if you, but then I don't know how that affects the shared scooter.

351
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,520
 So I think whatever we need, we need to make sure that it does say shared scooters.

352
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,760
 >> Well, I think we've already established ban on the fleets, and we're, you know.

353
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,280
 >> Well then, I would think that individual ones would just be allowed then,

354
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,040
 because they're not shared fleets.

355
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:14,560
 >> That's a position, I mean, my inclination is both to ban the 250 watts and

356
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,880
 the arterials, you know, use on arterials.

357
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,160
 >> I think it's already in our ordinance, it says that.

358
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,880
 So, I mean, we don't really need to create something that we already have that's existing.

359
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,560
 >> Is that right?

360
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,600
 Because it's suggested here as a possible action, so I figured it was a possible action.

361
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,400
 >> So within our code, yes, it does allow ban of any vehicles or

362
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,760
 toy devices along city streets, except while crossing them.

363
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,840
 >> So, Chair, maybe our option is to redo the ordinance and

364
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,160
 allow them to be on residential streets and change it.

365
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:55,920
 Is that what you're saying?

366
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,400
 >> Well, I'm not sure I'm clear on what Preeten just said.

367
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,000
 You're saying it allows an ordinance.

368
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,680
 >> So can you, Mark, can you go back to the slides, 18-11?

369
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,960
 So that's the ordinance that bans roller skate, toy devices.

370
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,440
 >> Toys aren't allowed on the road.

371
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,240
 >> Exactly.

372
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,720
 >> All right, so, but we haven't yet said that we want to

373
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:28,840
 ban individual ownership of scooters that are not toys, right?

374
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,880
 So, for individual use.

375
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,760
 >> Well, at which wattage does it turn into not a toy anymore?

376
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,280
 >> I don't think there's a firm.

377
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,280
 >> So, I mean, you can't really say that it's either all or

378
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,040
 nothing, really, right, unless we specify the wattage.

379
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:57,520
 >> Yes, that's why I'm, what I'm suggesting, which I don't think is said now,

380
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:04,040
 is that no use of 250 watts or

381
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:12,560
 greater is permitted on our right of ways.

382
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,600
 And I do take your point that the ones that are below 250 can't go on the roads anyway.

383
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:25,440
 So in that case, I guess what I'm really saying, I don't remember which option it was.

384
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:33,000
 But I suppose it's just the third item,

385
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:39,120
 the third option in addition to the bike share plan, then.

386
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,600
 >> My personal inclination is just to do the temporary moratorium or

387
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,600
 ban on the shared scooter services and leave everything else alone for now.

388
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,120
 >> John?

389
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,760
 >> Yeah, I would agree with that.

390
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,560
 I think we might want to take a closer look at 18-11,

391
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,720
 if there's something that we want to make some changes on at some point.

392
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:10,600
 Cuz one question I've got is, are they Segway, the little foot pedal deals?

393
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,360
 How do those fall in?

394
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,440
 Are those actually an electric scooter?

395
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,680
 >> They're a toy device.

396
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:16,760
 They're motorized.

397
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,960
 They definitely have small motors, at least the ones you see the kids riding around.

398
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,320
 I think it goes right along with roller skates, toy device.

399
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,920
 >> Yeah, but they're an electric as opposed to roller skates or skateboards or not.

400
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:38,120
 Just so that we're not, I don't know what size motor they have.

401
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:43,520
 So if they're motorized and we ban 250 and they're normally a 300 or something,

402
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,420
 I don't know where that sets, cuz you- >> I think they're pretty small.

403
00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:51,560
 But we could look into that, you know, hover boards, is that what they call them?

404
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560
 >> Yeah, those little there, you just stand up on.

405
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,320
 >> It's the two wheels of the platform, yeah.

406
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,440
 >> But your inclination was in general just to do the, to catch on fleets?

407
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,200
 >> Yes, well, I think we need to take a closer look at the rest.

408
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,560
 But I think it's not a single issue type item.

409
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,000
 I think it's we need to look at the overall safety, look at some data,

410
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,720
 see if somebody's done similar to that Portland report on other items to do that comparison.

411
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,200
 Is that something we want to put in our mobility plan that they're allowed on,

412
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,840
 you know, in bike lanes but not in the share row?

413
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,760
 >> Yeah, those types of things that we might want to look at.

414
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,160
 >> Let's look at all the other kind of chickens and ducks in some future session.

415
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,000
 But I think you've got consensus then as far as taking direction.

416
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,880
 And, you know, I recognize that we're, you know,

417
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,400
 that we've heard a potential legal risk that you might get challenged on that.

418
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,440
 And, you know, we're, we think that, you know, I think implicitly,

419
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,640
 we're saying we think you've got enough to work with.

420
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,760
 But they're different enough from bikes, you know, that we're confident in you.

421
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:07,640
 With the record shows, addressing legal, all right?

422
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,840
 >> So just to be sure, just so there's clarity.

423
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,520
 So approximately one year moratorium on these could be sooner.

424
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,920
 But just based on just additional study data, whether it's here in Denton or

425
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,800
 on the state or on the region or on the country, as we get more information.

426
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,520
 But to prohibit temporary prohibition of the scooter share companies from

427
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,720
 being permitted to allow to set up shop here within city limits.

428
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:36,040
 And again, there's no intention of.

429
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,080
 >> It's not forever.

430
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,200
 >> Of siding or penalizing kids or

431
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,040
 children that are using their personal devices and are on the streets, correct?

432
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,360
 >> Yes, that's right.

433
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,080
 All right, so I'm going to, let's just say, anyone else has anything else to add?

434
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,000
 I'm going to close that item, and we'll move on to item C.

435
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,320
 So we're going to receive a report, hold the discussion, and provide staff direction regarding.

436
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,480
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

437
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,080
 >> Oh, okay, yeah, we're going to.

438
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:12,080
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

439
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:18,080
 >> [INAUDIBLE]

440
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,040
 >> Yeah, you missed the preamble.

441
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,960
 >> So I'll just repeat for the benefit of the late comers that we discovered that

442
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,880
 it turns out the chair has discretion about allowing individual comment.

443
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:38,320
 And all our committee members are in support of allowing comment on individual items.

444
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,760
 We're going to go with a three minute limit.

445
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,200
 We'll have the presentation first, then we'll take blue cards, and then we'll have deliberation.

446
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,680
 So moving on to item C, receive a report, hold the discussion, and provide staff direction

447
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,440
 regarding bicycle lanes on West Hickory Street between Avenue B and Welch Streets.

448
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:09,400
 >> Okay, well, Mark Oliphant again, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator, thank you for your time.

449
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:17,480
 We're going to discuss bicycle lanes on Hickory Street between Bonnie Bray/I-35 and Carroll Street.

450
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:24,240
 Hickory is being repaved right now, block by block.

451
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,440
 And the next section to be repaved is really what we're looking at.

452
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,880
 This has been discussed for a number of years.

453
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,840
 There's been a lot of discussion back and forth, a lot of good ideas.

454
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,480
 I'm not sure there's anything that will make everyone happy, but

455
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:46,640
 hopefully we can discuss some of the positives and negatives of the different options that we have here.

456
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,240
 These are just some pictures to familiarize you with that area.

457
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:57,040
 There are some bars, there are restaurants, coffee shops, it's next to the UNT campus.

458
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,280
 I'm going to skip this one, and I'm going to talk about this first.

459
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,680
 So in the current pedestrian and bicycle plan for the city it does call for

460
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,800
 bike lanes from, let's see,

461
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:20,040
 from Welch to Carroll, Texas Boulevard, Avenue C to Welch.

462
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,320
 And then I-35 to Texas Boulevard.

463
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:30,200
 It got a little in the printouts, I think that didn't come through very well.

464
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:38,160
 And the Oak Gateway area plan has also discussed this matter and it has sort of two options.

465
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,720
 Originally it was create a contiguous bike lane along Hickory Street.

466
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:50,680
 Although later, after some other discussion, they added some other caveats or

467
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,880
 I don't know what you'd say.

468
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,840
 Yeah, some details to that.

469
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,360
 So one interesting thing that we did look at is as part of the study,

470
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:09,880
 we mounted a camera for about a week on Hickory Street to see what parking patterns were.

471
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,000
 Because that's a big question here, is what we're looking at is we're moving on street parking,

472
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,800
 which has implications, and we wanted to know what happened with the parking.

473
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,000
 And generally, it seems during the day,

474
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,040
 during the week when school is in session, people park and they go to UNT.

475
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:33,400
 But during other times during the evening, they do go to the local businesses and so forth.

476
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,760
 So the parking is used for both purposes.

477
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,920
 So we went out, this was discussed back in 2017.

478
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:50,040
 And direction was given to engineering to go and get some more options and

479
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,480
 get some professional opinions about what we can do here.

480
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,720
 So we went out and we got a consultant named Ulta Planning and Design, which is very well known nationwide,

481
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,920
 especially for pedestrian and bicycle planning.

482
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,040
 And we came up with these five different options.

483
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,080
 And so I'm just going to talk you through those a little bit.

484
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,960
 This is like a master comparison list of what we get with each.

485
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,640
 Some we lose spaces, some we lose a lot of spaces,

486
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,120
 some we don't lose any at all, but there are other considerations.

487
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,000
 So let's get into number one.

488
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:34,000
 This one provides a parking protected bike lane on the south side of Hickory Street.

489
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,480
 So just to orient you in the top left there, that's the CVS Pharmacy.

490
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,160
 And then you have Avenue B.

491
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:46,600
 And prior to that, you don't have parking on the south side of Hickory Street.

492
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,840
 And what this would do is it would eliminate the parking on the north side, but retain parking on the south side.

493
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,280
 The parked cars would act as a barrier between the moving vehicles and the bicycles.

494
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,840
 That's that block.

495
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:08,240
 On the next block, so we come up, here's where Avenue A Fry and Hickory intersect.

496
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:13,520
 They, your bike lane continues.

497
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,800
 And then we switch so that the parking is on the north side here.

498
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,680
 And you don't have the parking protection, but you do have sort of a buffer.

499
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:30,440
 There are about two feet between bike lane, two feet, and then vehicle lane to protect riders.

500
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,960
 And then here at Welch, it transitions into just the regular

501
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,840
 bike lane that's planned for most of the rest of the route.

502
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,400
 So that's option one.

503
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,240
 Option one is from a engineering, from a safety and

504
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:52,440
 traffic circulation standpoint that engineering likes.

505
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,000
 Option two is not terribly different.

506
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,920
 Instead, we do have a bike lane.

507
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:03,280
 It is buffered, not protected by parking on the south side.

508
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,920
 So again, there's your CVS at the top left, just to orient you.

509
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,760
 And we retain the parking on the north side.

510
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,120
 An advantage there is the parking is closer to the businesses that it's intended for.

511
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,920
 UNT doesn't really have an interest in maintaining parking for them along there.

512
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,880
 It's the businesses that want and need that parking.

513
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:34,440
 So this is fairly similar to one, it's just where the parking is on Hickory Street.

514
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,280
 So you continue along, and you still have that buffer.

515
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,040
 This buffer is slightly wider, two foot to three and a half foot.

516
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:47,520
 Sort of the street isn't uniformly wide along there, but that's about what you get.

517
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,040
 And so your bicycles stay on that right side.

518
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:57,360
 Here at Avenue A and Fry, one thing we do watch out for is we have what's called a bike box.

519
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,400
 Which is that green thing there.

520
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,120
 And that allows so that at a stop light or something,

521
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,840
 bikes can get in front of vehicles so that they don't turn right in front of them.

522
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,280
 South down onto Avenue A.

523
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,640
 And that's actually a busy corridor right now for DCTA buses.

524
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,520
 I believe it's route 8 that makes that right turn.

525
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:20,560
 Yes, sir.

526
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:21,440
 >> Why is that?

527
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,320
 They don't stop there.

528
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,720
 >> That's a good question.

529
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,240
 >> Okay.

530
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:31,080
 >> So I can quickly answer.

531
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:38,760
 I think there is a, for this particular one, there are signals at this intersection and the next.

532
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,760
 So for the Fry Street signal, typically you want the bicyclists to be visible and

533
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:51,040
 not on the far right behind, a lot of times there are parked cars next to the bike lanes.

534
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,760
 So if you're hiding or not visible, someone that wants to make a right turn lane,

535
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,120
 you can easily get trapped with the right lane hook for vehicles.

536
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,680
 That's the reason to get them in front of everyone.

537
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:09,720
 >> I got that. My question was why does DCTA go through it busily when they don't stop there?

538
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,720
 >> You can ask that question, but I think that's one of their routes.

539
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:19,320
 >> Yeah, the turn at Welch is kind of tight, but I don't know.

540
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:25,480
 There may be one when it gets down onto Mulberry there, but not 100% sure.

541
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,880
 >> Okay, we don't know.

542
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,560
 >> Yeah, yeah, we can get back to you with it.

543
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,640
 And then here it joins, so we end the two block section at Welch Street.

544
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,760
 Again, we have the box because there is a light there and you just want to watch out for

545
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,560
 any vehicles that might accidentally turn right or even moving bicycles.

546
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:50,720
 I mean, the real danger is when the light is not red and a bicycle and a vehicle are moving in parallel.

547
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:58,000
 And if that vehicle doesn't, or they overcome the bicycle, forget they're there and then turn right and the bike can run into it.

548
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:06,240
 But this is a state of the practice feature that was recommended by ALTA.

549
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,800
 On to option three, so option three is the most,

550
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,440
 we move the most concrete and the most equipments involved and everything.

551
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,800
 And this one brings the bike lane entirely off of the pavement.

552
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,440
 Currently, there's about an eight foot sidewalk on the south side of Hickory for

553
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,880
 that first block, which heavily used by pedestrians.

554
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,440
 And the idea here is that space would be turned into a bike lane and

555
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,280
 we would extend the sidewalk into the UNT campus.

556
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,600
 But that requires a few things.

557
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:43,880
 There's a retaining wall there, there are trees, the land belongs to UNT.

558
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,600
 So there would be a lot involved there.

559
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:53,760
 In a number of places, these things do work though, having a separated bike boulevard or something is a good idea.

560
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,400
 >> Question, Council Member Briggs.

561
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,280
 >> So this is my choice.

562
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,760
 >> Okay. >> Actually.

563
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:04,720
 And I'm curious if you've talked to UNT before you put this out as an option or if you just said-

564
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,200
 >> Yeah, so we had a conversation with the business owners,

565
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,240
 Bright Street business owners and UNT did participate.

566
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,320
 I mean, they did not say, absolutely not, this can't work.

567
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,880
 They said, well, you know, maybe we can talk about this.

568
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:26,280
 And we haven't pursued it further and that was their transportation representative.

569
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:31,440
 So I don't know if it would be a slightly different master planning office within UNT.

570
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:38,080
 But I know they're dedicated to the safety of their employees and students and they would be using it.

571
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,000
 So I think it's within the realm of the possible.

572
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,800
 That is the, yeah, that's the feedback that we got from that.

573
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:55,240
 There are a few concerns that pedestrians, maybe say you park your car on the south side of the street and get out.

574
00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:00,360
 You need to go toward UNT while you would be crossing that bike lane to get onto the sidewalk.

575
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,960
 But these sorts of things do work well in a lot of different cities throughout the country and the world.

576
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:14,720
 On the next block here, so it would need to rejoin the street when you get to the end of that block.

577
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:24,680
 And there are concerns there from the cyclists about returning to the street and vehicles not seeing them or again, vehicles turning right.

578
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,840
 If you're coming from the other side of parked cars like this and

579
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,960
 vehicles are moving like this and want to turn right or something, there's some potential there.

580
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:39,560
 Now, if you really want to get crazy, one idea has been floated about closing off,

581
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,800
 closing this off here potentially, and that could solve some problems.

582
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:52,160
 I mean, we may be getting away from what you challenged us to do with this study.

583
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,000
 But that idea has been floated, so there won't be any-

584
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,240
 >> I'm sorry, why is that crazy?

585
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:00,640
 >> It's just a lot more money.

586
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:10,160
 I mean, we were just tasked with, let's get some bike lanes along here and we're sort of changing the infrastructure of the area, but maybe not.

587
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,800
 I mean, I think it has some merits.

588
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:20,480
 If we did that, you could turn this into a cul-de-sac, vehicles could circle around.

589
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,840
 So they could come in, they could access Welch to Mulberry Avenue A, and turn around.

590
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:35,960
 The consultant did even look at the possibility of continuing this along here.

591
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,160
 You would need to move some light poles.

592
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:46,840
 You would have bicycles moving right in front of the bars where people tend to congregate.

593
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,040
 So we're a little more leery there.

594
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,080
 People wouldn't be paying attention or slightly inebriated or something like that.

595
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,400
 So it could be even squeezed in there further along.

596
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,280
 So there's a lot of possibilities there.

597
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:13,480
 I know too though, they're getting ready to lay these sidewalks and repave all of this.

598
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:19,640
 So we'd need to push the crews and

599
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:24,280
 let them know if this really is the preference of the city council.

600
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,960
 It has many, many benefits.

601
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,680
 Here, finally, come back to Welch.

602
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:36,280
 So it could, for

603
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,720
 the whole block from Avenue A to Welch, be off of the street.

604
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:48,520
 This is easy, this last little piece, because you didn't have to move light poles.

605
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,320
 And you wouldn't be in front of the bars, at least, running into people.

606
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,840
 But having your riders off the road, back onto the road,

607
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:04,280
 off the road again, all within a 1200 foot length is not really preferable.

608
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,960
 So that's option three.

609
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:14,400
 Option four, I hope you don't love it, because engineering hates it.

610
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,680
 But we did want to at least show this to you, that this is possible.

611
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:26,400
 That you save everything and you go down to one travel lane.

612
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:35,640
 But this is a secondary arterial road, carries a lot of traffic east-west, and we discourage this.

613
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:41,440
 There are also deliveries along here, where you have delivery trucks and so forth.

614
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:49,640
 But it saves all the parking, and the bicycles get their protected lane, but we don't recommend it.

615
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,600
 We do.

616
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,240
 >> And I'm glad that you put it in here, because I did send an email.

617
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,640
 Why don't we go down to one lane?

618
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,080
 Because right now- >> Do you feel fully supported in this?

619
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,240
 >> Yes, now I don't.

620
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,800
 I'm of course not an engineer, but with traffic and the construction being the way that it is,

621
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:15,520
 everyone now is actually going into one lane, and that's the way that the traffic is moving.

622
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,760
 And for me, personally, if we want to make this a walkable safe area,

623
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,280
 the less traffic moving and the more we're looking out, the better.

624
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:33,480
 And so that's why, I mean, it just kind of was a natural progression, and it seemed to work just fine.

625
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:39,960
 And you're only looking for one moving car, whether people are walking around you or pulling out or parking.

626
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,560
 So it seemed good to me.

627
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:50,640
 >> Yeah, I think the two lanes currently often do function as one lane,

628
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:57,680
 because you have tractor trailers pulled over to unload and maybe utility work in the street.

629
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:06,480
 And so I think two lanes providing you one is like the best you can do from this.

630
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:12,200
 Whereas if you just had the one lane and someone stops to parallel park,

631
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,960
 you can just really pretend you want to.

632
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:25,920
 >> Yeah, that's good, no, you don't have to explain to me why not, but just on the calmness of it, it seemed to make sense.

633
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:32,800
 >> I do want to point out at the meeting that we had with the businesses around,

634
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:39,000
 one of the things that they did raise that may not be a good alternative for them as well.

635
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:47,080
 Just given that if this area is congested and backed up, a lot less people will show up in the area or avoid the area.

636
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:53,120
 That's more detriment than having an area that traffic flows, and you can actually move through the area.

637
00:51:53,120 --> 00:52:00,120
 >> Quick question, probably for Preetam directly.

638
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:07,280
 Just an idea, but like on the corner of Avenue A where we're concerned,

639
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,480
 we're talking about the possibility of shutting that off.

640
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:15,480
 Is there any areas of the country that maybe use a flashing arrow for the right turn?

641
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:21,880
 We're using flashing yellow for left turns throughout the city now.

642
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:27,080
 Have a flashing arrow for the right turn with a picture of a cautioned bicycle above it,

643
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,960
 so that people know when they approach that corner to keep an eye out?

644
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:36,160
 >> Yeah, I think there is a flashing yield sign, it could be a ball too, but that's a possibility.

645
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:42,080
 We can come up with something that anyone that approaches that intersection could be a yield.

646
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:49,760
 And if we're actually shutting down one leg, we can even look into if the signal is warranted,

647
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:54,560
 if there is no cross traffic that's going through the signal on Fryan Avenue A.

648
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,680
 If it's lower, then we'll have to redesign that.

649
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:05,880
 If signal is not warranted, if we shut that approach, then it might function slightly different.

650
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:13,440
 But I would want to point out that DCTA route that goes through there actually takes Mulberry

651
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,480
 on the other side of the campus, if you go to the map.

652
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,480
 There is a drop off next to one of their buildings.

653
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,840
 It goes on Hickory for a little bit and again goes down on Mulberry.

654
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,840
 So there are two drop offs or bus stops on either side which are really,

655
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:36,040
 I think they're closer to the buildings and help, one is next to the arts building.

656
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,840
 Zoom out a little bit, it'll show you the bus stops.

657
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:46,280
 >> Let's see, here's Avenue A.

658
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,600
 >> Yeah, there's one and then on the left side there's Avenue B.

659
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:51,240
 >> Oh yeah, right there.

660
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:57,000
 >> So those two are the ones, but they have to use that jog to get through to that area

661
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,960
 and that's why those DCTA buses move in that direction.

662
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:01,840
 >> So they come clockwise, right?

663
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:02,680
 >> Correct.

664
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,080
 It will impact their service.

665
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,920
 I'm not sure what their ridership is and how they function, but this is pretty strong route

666
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,040
 for them, especially given that these bus stops are really close to the buildings

667
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,800
 where they actually have a lot of students going.

668
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,520
 >> Yeah, but they don't have a stop there.

669
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:25,960
 So it's still, there's no compelling reason that's been expressed yet why they do that,

670
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,480
 but you know, whatever, maybe there is one.

671
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:34,280
 >> So there is need or there are a lot of people getting off of next to these buildings

672
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,200
 and these buses run from the field.

673
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,720
 >> But they don't stop there.

674
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:39,960
 >> They do stop then.

675
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,520
 >> The people are there, but the people didn't get on the bus there.

676
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:44,320
 You understand?

677
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,280
 The bus doesn't stop in that--

678
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,040
 >> On Hickory, it doesn't, no.

679
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,720
 >> No, but it doesn't stop on Fry to Mulberry, as far as I know.

680
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:53,760
 You haven't told me otherwise.

681
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:54,440
 >> Oh, here's--

682
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,480
 >> There's a bus stop right there.

683
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,440
 >> Oh, on Mulberry, okay.

684
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,560
 >> Okay, so there are two bus stops on either side

685
00:54:58,560 --> 00:54:59,840
 and that's the middle route.

686
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:00,520
 >> Okay.

687
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:00,960
 >> Yeah.

688
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:01,320
 >> That's--

689
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:01,600
 >> Okay, that's--

690
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:02,800
 >> That's the answer, isn't it?

691
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:03,760
 >> Mm-hmm, okay.

692
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,960
 >> So let me go back.

693
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:14,800
 So that's option four.

694
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,040
 Now, option five, this is where we got really creative.

695
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,920
 We call this the calm street option, but you may have also heard the--

696
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,440
 >> You say creative like it's a bad thing.

697
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:22,840
 >> Huh?

698
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,360
 >> You say creative like it's a bad thing.

699
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,160
 >> Right, yeah.

700
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,440
 I'm glad to hear that from you.

701
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,360
 Please send-- I like creative and if leadership likes creative, let's--

702
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:31,840
 >> Okay.

703
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:32,600
 >> Let's do that.

704
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,920
 So the calm street, AKA Woonerf inspired.

705
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,720
 So that term was thrown around.

706
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:45,600
 A Woonerf is usually a residential street that has a very shared feel to it.

707
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,360
 Vehicles do not automatically have right of way.

708
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,880
 People can cross it.

709
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,240
 They don't have to go to the crosswalk and so forth.

710
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:56,960
 So for the calm street, what we're thinking about here is the nature

711
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,560
 of Hickory is such that from Bonnie Bray to Avenue B, it's largely housing.

712
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,920
 There's some university buildings next to it,

713
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,440
 but then suddenly the character of the road changes a great deal.

714
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,320
 You have these small businesses, coffee shops, bookstores, restaurants,

715
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,160
 heavy pedestrian traffic, the bars.

716
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:26,080
 And so you really come to a node part way through Hickory Street

717
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,000
 and maybe a node should be treated differently

718
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,120
 than the other parts of Hickory Street.

719
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:38,720
 So what the thought was was could we use some physical infrastructure

720
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:43,040
 to essentially force motor vehicles to slow down.

721
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:48,920
 I'll tell you right now, a lot of Hickory that hasn't been repaved actually does this.

722
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:55,840
 If you go from Welch to Carroll, you can't go faster than 15 miles an hour, it's impossible.

723
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,800
 So in a way, we have an unintentional calm street there, right?

724
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,040
 And so there are things that we could do.

725
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:12,600
 What this would achieve is it saves all of the parking, brings cyclists into the common lane,

726
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:19,720
 but has infrastructure such that motor vehicles are forced to physically slow down.

727
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:25,960
 Currently, it's a 20 mile an hour speed limit in this first block from the CVS to Fry

728
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,720
 and then it's a 30 mile an hour speed limit to the next.

729
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:34,760
 So what we would do is make both 20 miles an hour and we would put an infrastructure

730
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:39,360
 that just makes it not possible to go faster than that or without having

731
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,640
 to, you know, replace your shock absorbers or something.

732
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:47,680
 So we come into it, we have a raised crosswalk here.

733
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:55,080
 All of these features, we specifically ask the consultant to make them non-permanent.

734
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,040
 There are these really great products that are bolt down

735
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,640
 and so you just have your regular street and then you bolt them into the street.

736
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:11,600
 They're made of very strong steel or high density plastics for the speed tables,

737
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,920
 crosswalks and that slows vehicles down.

738
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:20,080
 One thing I will suggest also, this idea came in kind of late

739
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,720
 and so it's still a little under development is you could also do mid-block crossings.

740
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:31,000
 There's an immense amount of jaywalking in that area and if you had a mid-block crossing say,

741
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:36,000
 you know, in front of the Vortmans or something like that, again, a speed table raised crossing,

742
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:42,840
 maybe with some of the flashing LEDs, we make this a living boulevard.

743
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,960
 So it's friendly to bicycles, it's friendly to pedestrians.

744
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,920
 Vehicles can get through but not at high speed.

745
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,440
 There are parking options.

746
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,720
 Let's see.

747
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,040
 So here we are at the Frey intersection.

748
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,520
 We have what are called these bulb outs when visually when someone's driving

749
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,200
 and the road narrows that tells them, oh, I need to slow down.

750
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,520
 There's a huge amount of psychology in how people drive and treat the roads and so forth.

751
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:13,960
 Bulb outs up here.

752
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,320
 I would potentially suggest also a mid-block crossing somewhere here.

753
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:25,120
 I think it's the Lucky Loos that it's in front of that just keeps things slow for this

754
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:31,600
 so that as vehicles come down Hickory Street, they realize, oh, I'm in a special place.

755
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,040
 I'm in a node.

756
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,320
 I've reached a destination.

757
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:39,680
 I'm going to slow down for two blocks and get through this and I'm going to notice pedestrians

758
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,880
 and the bicycles are here with me and then when they get to the end of it,

759
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,640
 they can sort of resume their travel.

760
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,440
 If you look, let's see.

761
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,680
 So there's where it ends at Weld Street.

762
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,880
 Over here on the right, I'll draw your attention over there.

763
00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:01,440
 So you can see this is the speed table and you see it's not permanent asphalt.

764
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,080
 It's something that's bolted down on there.

765
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,160
 On the right, speed cushions, same thing.

766
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:14,280
 On the bottom, these are some of the steel bolt down products that, and you know,

767
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:21,880
 you can use that at these bulb outs and so forth and also planters, you know,

768
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,280
 put planters in the street.

769
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:29,840
 So it slows things down and there's a lot to be said for that but I will say

770
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:38,680
 that our consultants were not, they were not willing to put their endorsements on this,

771
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:45,600
 that they felt this achieved all of the objectives that we were looking for.

772
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,640
 But, you know, they said, well, you could try it for a year or something.

773
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,800
 So it's a possibility.

774
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,520
 Those are the five.

775
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,960
 I'm happy to take any further questions.

776
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:01,360
 >> Well, I'd like to, you know, hear the citizen comments and then we can pick it up again.

777
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:08,400
 So if you'll come to the mic, state your name and address and your time will begin.

778
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,800
 We're going to go for three minute chunks.

779
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:17,680
 If it doesn't work, you know, we can be flexible but let's try Clay Thurmond.

780
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,280
 And if there's someone else who came to speak and didn't know we were going

781
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,600
 to allow citizens to speak, turns out we can do that.

782
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,600
 So if you want to put in a blue card, we're here.

783
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,280
 >> Okay. Again, Clay Thurmond, 1524 Snyder, Denton.

784
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,800
 I would like to advocate for either options one or two.

785
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:42,280
 I particularly like option two because it maintains the continuity of parking

786
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,320
 and the continuity of traffic and when people are driving or riding their bicycles,

787
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:55,680
 a certain expectation of consistency is preserved by that option.

788
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:03,400
 I would like to ask why we couldn't have some flexible bollards put down on that stripe lane

789
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,280
 to add a little bit more to the protectiveness of it.

790
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,280
 One or two are probably my favorite options.

791
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:17,200
 Also, there's some of the cheaper options that we have.

792
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:25,780
 And number three, I just don't think that's going to work.

793
01:02:25,780 --> 01:02:26,800
 It's very expensive.

794
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:33,640
 We're looking at getting over into some root lines on the trees over there

795
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,160
 and you're only doing it for a block or so.

796
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,800
 And so I think that's a lot of money for just one block to do.

797
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:49,080
 And similar to number four, I mean taking a secondary arterial from two lanes

798
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,280
 down to one lane is not going to be very good.

799
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:57,600
 And as far as the Calm Street, I think that's a great idea and that may be something

800
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,200
 that I don't know is being worked into the MUSE plan or not,

801
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,320
 but I don't think this is the right location for it.

802
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:09,800
 So I'd like to advocate for option one or two, preferably number two.

803
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,280
 >> Any questions?

804
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,440
 >> Thank you.

805
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,840
 Okay, we've got Aaron Powell.

806
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:24,360
 Please state your name and address and your time will begin.

807
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,280
 >> I'm Aaron Powell, 1011 Cordell Street, Denton.

808
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:33,240
 I represent Bike Denton, which is a bike advocacy group here in Denton.

809
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,940
 Similar to what Clay has suggested, options one or two are our favorite

810
01:03:37,940 --> 01:03:43,640
 because of the consistency and expectation of the cars.

811
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:48,640
 I like option two better because rather than going behind the cars for a block

812
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,000
 and then having to come back out of them, concern maybe about visibility

813
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,520
 or expectations of cars watching for bikes.

814
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:59,080
 Whereas if it's a lane that's consistent on the street all the way through,

815
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,600
 which is what option two is, then the cars, you know, even if they have passed you

816
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,240
 at one point or you come up on them, they at least have seen you

817
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,160
 and they know you're there.

818
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:14,920
 While I like the idea behind option three, it's, you know, for a block,

819
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,960
 it's coming on and off and then on and off again, you know, it's not great.

820
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:25,080
 I mean, if this was the entire stretch of oak or hickory rather from, you know,

821
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,660
 Bonnie Bray down to Carol, that'd be, you know, a different conversation.

822
01:04:28,660 --> 01:04:33,080
 I think Bike Boulevard's on sidewalk level, it can actually work really well.

823
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:38,440
 I lived in Europe for a couple of years and, you know, they have this infrastructure

824
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,520
 and it actually is amazing, but it's also consistent throughout the entire city

825
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:44,800
 or at least for an entire lane.

826
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:49,680
 So I think expectations of just consistency down the whole street are important.

827
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,880
 You know, that's also why I don't like option five and having the bikes merge

828
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,720
 into traffic for a block and then merging back out onto a lane.

829
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,000
 I'd rather just, if it's going to be a lane, which actually from Bonnie Bray starting

830
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,960
 on hickory, the lane there is actually really good with the protected stripes.

831
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:06,120
 I like that.

832
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,800
 And if it kept all the way, you know, from there to Carol,

833
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,320
 we'd have a really nice route to downtown, so.

834
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,760
 >> Thank you.

835
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:22,040
 Kim McKibbin, state your name and address and your time will begin.

836
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,240
 >> Hi, I'm Kim McKibbin.

837
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:30,440
 I own a business at 1306 West Hickory Street.

838
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,360
 I've been with this project since the very beginning.

839
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,760
 I've also served on the Oak Gateway Plan for the past year and a half

840
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,080
 or whatever it is we've been working on.

841
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,080
 I think over and over again we've looked at this and we've looked at this area.

842
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:50,160
 The Oak Gateway Small Area Plan allowed us to expand our thinking past the narrowness

843
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,960
 of the two blocks that we're talking about.

844
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,920
 I can say that I've had multiple meetings with the traffic people.

845
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,400
 We have had meetings with the business owners.

846
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,600
 There is a number of businesses down there.

847
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,360
 There are over 20.

848
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:09,320
 I can't keep count because some have closed again because of lack of parking.

849
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,640
 The problem is that the businesses do need the parking.

850
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:15,840
 The university needs the parking.

851
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,440
 It is 20 miles an hour through that area.

852
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,160
 It should never have been slated as a major ulterior to be a bicycle lane

853
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:24,480
 or to be a bicycle path.

854
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,560
 It should have been routed other ways, but we're past that now.

855
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,800
 But there's no reason to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

856
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:38,640
 I would like you to know that the businesses that are down there,

857
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:44,920
 I do speak for them at this point, are very much aware as are the communities

858
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,560
 that if you eliminate parking in the area, you're pushing the students out to other places.

859
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:55,400
 I personally am more interested in the safety of the pedestrians, of the cyclists,

860
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:56,800
 of the people riding vehicles.

861
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:02,560
 That's why I really do hope that you'll give some consideration to the plan

862
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:07,360
 that was brought forward by the Oak Gateway, the collective consciousness of all those people

863
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:13,160
 that worked for so long, which is the calming traffic area in five.

864
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:18,120
 Now, if you do not choose five and you choose to go with something different,

865
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,560
 please don't think or allow the cyclists of the city to believe

866
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,600
 that they are safe with two stripes on a road.

867
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:30,600
 They will need to have physical barriers between them and the moving traffic,

868
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,120
 and I don't mean the little plastic barriers, the ball yards.

869
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,920
 Particularly through the area there in the Fry Street overlay district,

870
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:43,080
 they will need concrete, they will need steel, they will need something in place

871
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,400
 because the students will continue to walk out in front of them.

872
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,720
 The cars will continue to pull out in front of them.

873
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,200
 And I think that there are some creative solutions with five

874
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,200
 that allows everybody increased safety.

875
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,560
 I know the cyclists don't want to be part of traffic, but the reality is,

876
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:07,160
 in a 20 mile an hour zone, they are more visible as part of the moving traffic

877
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,640
 than they are removed from the moving traffic.

878
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,440
 We're not talking about 30, 35 miles an hour.

879
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:14,720
 It's all the way down a hill.

880
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,080
 They're going to be doing 20 anyway.

881
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,640
 So, please give some of that consideration if you want to try it for a while

882
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:22,760
 or not try it for a while.

883
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:27,600
 I know you have been lobbied very strongly by the Bicycle Coalition,

884
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,680
 and I hope that you take that into consideration.

885
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:32,600
 Thank you.

886
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:33,640
 >> Thanks.

887
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:35,320
 Thank you.

888
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,200
 And we have Kevin Marshall.

889
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:46,560
 Yeah, just please state your name and address and your time will begin.

890
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,280
 >> Okay, I'm Kevin Marshall, address 700 West Hickory,

891
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,680
 Dent, Texas, 76201.

892
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,600
 Yeah, I own Bullseye Bike Shop right there on Hickory.

893
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:02,320
 I ride my bike on that road every day.

894
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:08,280
 So, really, I mean, I feel like I have points in just about every single one

895
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,600
 of those topics, every one of those plans.

896
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:15,960
 So, if you all have any questions, I've been in a bunch of these meetings.

897
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:22,280
 But I would say, I don't-- looking at the budget, I have no idea how much money you have

898
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:26,840
 to spend and I know that y'all, you know, as a city, you work with millions of dollars.

899
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:32,920
 Like, my scope for what y'all deal with is way beyond, you know, what y'all, you know,

900
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,640
 I mean, y'alls-- what y'all deal with is way beyond what I'm used to dealing with.

901
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:44,040
 So, I-- my favorite one is, you know, if money wasn't an issue

902
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,960
 to actually just give us our own lane.

903
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:47,480
 Like, give us our own lane separate.

904
01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:49,480
 I've cycled a lot in the woodlands.

905
01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:56,600
 They actually-- they're in the top 10 best cities to cycle in in the nation

906
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,640
 and they actually have a separate bike lane through the infrastructure.

907
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:05,320
 So, they have the road and then they have their own separate from traffic bike lane.

908
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:09,720
 I think that would move-- it'd be the safest but I don't want to recommend something

909
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:14,840
 that will never happen or will happen in-- supposed to happen in five years

910
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,640
 and then get tabled and happen in five years and then get tabled.

911
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,480
 And so, if that's what it's going to do, don't push that one through.

912
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:24,120
 Go with something simple like one or two.

913
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:29,880
 Keep us-- I would say out of them, the one that actually just had a divider that kind of--

914
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:35,080
 what's nice is if that street fluctuates in and fluctuates out, you can kind of use that buffer

915
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:38,440
 to kind of balance out the street and the lanes and the parking.

916
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:45,080
 So, that would be good what they showed of the dividers like the plastic things that stick up

917
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:49,320
 in that picture of five, right?

918
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,560
 I think those dividers are actually really helpful like cars.

919
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:58,440
 I've ridden in Austin where they use those to kind of separate the road

920
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:02,760
 and those actually, you know, they do give something that the cars are aware of

921
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:07,000
 or somebody starts to drift, drunk driving, people leaving the bars.

922
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:12,760
 I know this is a 20-mile zone but it's not treated or approached like a 20-mile zone.

923
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:17,320
 People leave the bars, you know, or they're trying to find a spot

924
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:21,000
 because they're late for campus, so late to get to class.

925
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,400
 So, they are going faster than 20 miles an hour.

926
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:28,840
 So, anything you can do to kind of separate us would be great.

927
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:37,880
 Yeah, so I don't think if you put the parking next to the road and the bike lane on the other side,

928
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,680
 I'm really not concerned about a person getting out of their car

929
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:45,400
 and not being aware enough to realize they're about to get hit by a bicycle.

930
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,840
 And part of riding a bicycle is we're constantly aware

931
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,240
 that pedestrians are going to walk out in front of us.

932
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,080
 Someone's going to open their car door into us.

933
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:54,360
 Someone's going to pull into traffic.

934
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:59,720
 A really big issue was exactly what you all are dealing with

935
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:04,040
 where when we stop at a light, there are cars that are taking rights.

936
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:09,240
 And whenever you're bombing down from Avenue B to Fry,

937
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:13,160
 when you're going down that, that's a pretty steep incline.

938
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:15,880
 And I mean, I'm breaking the speed limit.

939
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,240
 You know, like I'm definitely on a bicycle.

940
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:24,280
 I'm probably hitting 30 miles an hour like flying through there.

941
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,560
 So, not that I do that, but yeah.

942
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,720
 So I've got a question.

943
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,960
 Yeah, I wasn't that clear on, you know, sorry,

944
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,680
 on what your sort of ideal would be.

945
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,080
 The one that you hope you wouldn't advocate

946
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,000
 if it was going to get kicked down the road forever.

947
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:46,440
 But was that like when you say a separate lane for bikes, which one?

948
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:47,880
 It was that really the expensive one.

949
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,800
 Was that for where the carbon of the sidewalk or?

950
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,280
 Yeah, yeah, where it's separate.

951
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:57,400
 And then was that three, three, three.

952
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:01,240
 Yeah, so yep.

953
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:02,520
 OK, and did you have a question?

954
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:03,640
 And then, yeah.

955
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,520
 And then if that one's just never going to happen,

956
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:07,960
 I think it's two, right?

957
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,600
 Two's the one where we have her.

958
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,680
 But one or two, they both sounded good.

959
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,600
 I've got a whole bunch of stuff, too,

960
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:16,840
 if y'all ever wanted to close off Fry Street

961
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,160
 and give us extra parking, but that's.

962
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:19,800
 Yeah, thank you.

963
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,320
 I'm going to speak about that.

964
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,560
 Glad you mentioned that.

965
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,880
 Mark, would you mind speaking to the issue of the--

966
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,320
 I forget what you call it-- the plastic?

967
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:35,560
 A bollards or delineators.

968
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:39,560
 Yeah, in what scenarios would they conceivably fit or not fit?

969
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:46,520
 So here, if you see the little SUV and that vertical white.

970
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,280
 This is option five.

971
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:49,240
 OK, option five, yeah.

972
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:49,880
 Coming out.

973
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:50,280
 Let me see.

974
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:51,000
 Oh, here it is.

975
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,440
 Yeah, right there.

976
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:53,800
 So yeah, we got them there.

977
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,200
 Yeah, these are fairly commonly used.

978
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:57,640
 We call them delineators.

979
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,520
 They come in different heights, different colors.

980
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,200
 They almost always have bands of reflective material at the top.

981
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,200
 They can be placed on asphalt with adhesive.

982
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,400
 Typically, we like to do that rather than bolt into it.

983
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,000
 This is what we're thinking of doing on Highland Street

984
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:21,800
 to divide the vehicle lanes from the bike lanes.

985
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,560
 They're fairly inexpensive.

986
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:27,880
 It is entirely a psychological deterrent.

987
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:28,680
 You know, there's no--

988
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:29,480
 It doesn't stop a car.

989
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:33,880
 But would you mind addressing which of the other options

990
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,920
 they would conceivably be addable to?

991
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:38,920
 Yeah, you do have enough space.

992
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,440
 Let's see.

993
01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:41,000
 Where are we?

994
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,040
 I'll go all the way.

995
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,240
 OK, option one.

996
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:49,160
 We have, if you can see here this measurement, three feet buffer.

997
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:52,520
 That's definitely enough space to put one of those

998
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:57,480
 sort of between your hash marks either at every interval

999
01:14:57,480 --> 01:14:59,240
 or every other interval.

1000
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,960
 They're fairly inexpensive.

1001
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,040
 Option two.

1002
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:09,400
 We're looking at, well, two to three and a half foot widths

1003
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:10,040
 there as well.

1004
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:11,000
 And you could do that.

1005
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,720
 Definitely install those.

1006
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,760
 No trouble and not a lot of extra cost.

1007
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,720
 Three, it would be--

1008
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:24,520
 Well, I guess you could put some between the sidewalk

1009
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,880
 and the bike lanes just to kind of help keep--

1010
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,760
 And you would do markings on the pavement.

1011
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,440
 You know, bicycles over here.

1012
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:33,560
 And so it's very clear.

1013
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:41,000
 You know, further down you would have space.

1014
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,280
 Yes, I think on all the options, this one has a four foot--

1015
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,320
 Oh, well, no, this is option four that we're not doing.

1016
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:48,600
 Question within your answer here.

1017
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:49,320
 Yeah.

1018
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,480
 Well, just a comment because just start right here.

1019
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:54,680
 What we've done is that we've acknowledged that this is

1020
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:57,720
 a really high pedestrian-oriented area

1021
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:04,120
 and that cars go really fast and that this calm intersection

1022
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:05,640
 would be really great.

1023
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,320
 But then in any of the other designs, it's not mentioned.

1024
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:13,800
 And so I want to know why in this calm one when the bicycles

1025
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,200
 are in the traffic because the intersection

1026
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,480
 doesn't really have anything to do with the moving lanes of traffic.

1027
01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:24,040
 It's about the pedestrians getting across the street

1028
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:25,560
 and moving through that intersection.

1029
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:30,920
 So I mean, because I look at this and then I look at the bike lane,

1030
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:33,960
 I look at the dividers and I see that, you know,

1031
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,440
 these are things that we need, you know,

1032
01:16:36,440 --> 01:16:38,600
 not just here and in other parts of the city.

1033
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:43,480
 But I'm wondering why this intersection is only being calm

1034
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:49,160
 in this design and not in any of the others.

1035
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,760
 I know it was something mentioned in the O-Gap plan

1036
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:57,240
 that they are interested in it, I think, in general.

1037
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:02,680
 Part of it was cost savings where we were looking at ways

1038
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:09,160
 to just achieve this with paint or thermoplastic

1039
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:12,600
 that gets heated and laid down.

1040
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:13,880
 Do you want to?

1041
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,280
 Yeah, to talk to that.

1042
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,880
 I think at that particular intersection, Avenue B,

1043
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,800
 the entire frontage of UNT is 20 miles an hour.

1044
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,200
 It's a signalized intersection where everyone stops

1045
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:29,400
 so there are signal-protected crosswalks.

1046
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,400
 The way this was envisioned back in the day,

1047
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:38,120
 about two or three years ago, when Hickory Street project started,

1048
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:42,840
 is the reconstruction of Hickory Street

1049
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,560
 was between the existing curb lines.

1050
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,400
 They were not touching the curbs.

1051
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,000
 They were just reconstructing the street.

1052
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,240
 So this project would be implemented

1053
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,720
 as part of a restrapping effort

1054
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,440
 after the street reconstruction was completed.

1055
01:17:56,440 --> 01:17:59,240
 Now that we have all these...

1056
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:03,080
 Now that we have certain parking issues

1057
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:06,440
 and we wanted to look at options,

1058
01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:08,200
 we're coming up with certain options

1059
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,400
 that change the curb lines that require redesign

1060
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:17,000
 for a storm and redesign for how the street will be curbed.

1061
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:18,840
 So these are a lot of expensive options.

1062
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,520
 And originally, when this project was envisioned,

1063
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:23,880
 these were not on the table.

1064
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:25,720
 Now we're trying to come up with creative ways

1065
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,320
 of how we can save the parking

1066
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:29,240
 and implement something different.

1067
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,360
 Just on that note with the parking,

1068
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:36,440
 I drove by there earlier today and I counted 23 cars

1069
01:18:36,440 --> 01:18:39,080
 and that's because there was a section of it

1070
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,760
 that wasn't being used because there was a construction

1071
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,000
 thing working there.

1072
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,520
 So just for reference.

1073
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:55,720
 I have plenty to say so I'll wait.

1074
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,120
 Yeah, I've got several things.

1075
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,520
 I kind of like three,

1076
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,640
 but I like some of the options that are in five as well.

1077
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,280
 I think I agree with Council Member Briggs

1078
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:07,560
 that we can do both.

1079
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:10,840
 I know this area very, very well.

1080
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,000
 I drive it every day.

1081
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,720
 I've walked it many, many times.

1082
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:21,640
 And between Avenue A and Fry is the heaviest congestion.

1083
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:27,080
 So that explains why we will need to do that shifting of the bikes.

1084
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:28,760
 What I'm wondering about, you know,

1085
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,600
 you see New York is probably the biggest example of it.

1086
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,800
 An actual concrete barrier for that bike lane

1087
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,560
 is that I don't know how much more,

1088
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:40,920
 I'm sure it's quite a bit more expensive,

1089
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:42,200
 but it just depends on how you.

1090
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:42,840
 Like a curb?

1091
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:48,280
 Well, you know, how, yeah.

1092
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:55,320
 What they use on the highway when they try and block off,

1093
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:57,480
 you know, their, what, maybe 10 foot sections,

1094
01:19:57,480 --> 01:19:58,680
 20 foot sections that, you know,

1095
01:19:58,680 --> 01:19:59,800
 the big concrete that they just.

1096
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:00,520
 Concrete barriers.

1097
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:01,400
 Concrete barrier.

1098
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:01,900
 Dividers.

1099
01:20:01,900 --> 01:20:04,600
 On this particular one, I do want to point out that

1100
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:09,400
 the bikeway is going to be six inches above the street level,

1101
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,480
 above and elevated.

1102
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:16,200
 That means there will be curb and the cars won't be parked

1103
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,200
 or cannot enter the bike area.

1104
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:24,360
 So they will be protected, if you may, as well as divided.

1105
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:28,600
 And I look at it from a different standpoint, too.

1106
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,040
 We talk about the amount of jaywalking.

1107
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:31,000
 Well, how do you stop that?

1108
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,840
 Well, that's one way you're going to direct them

1109
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:36,200
 to use an actual crosswalk.

1110
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,600
 And if we had to add another crosswalk in the middle,

1111
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,440
 that's fine, but you're adding to the safety feature

1112
01:20:42,440 --> 01:20:43,400
 when you put that in there.

1113
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,400
 You're directing people in a certain direction.

1114
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:49,160
 What's the width of the Jersey barrier at its base?

1115
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:49,800
 Do you know?

1116
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:50,600
 Is it three feet?

1117
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:52,760
 I think it's pretty wide.

1118
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,040
 We don't have the space here.

1119
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:55,320
 Big, yeah.

1120
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,320
 Some of these we have three feet, but.

1121
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,760
 And I think those are designed for really high speed areas.

1122
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,000
 There might be something a little bit smaller than that

1123
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,320
 that would work in the same manner.

1124
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,680
 Wheel stop size, it won't be a super large barrier.

1125
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:12,520
 Because I think if you just put the plastic ones out there

1126
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:14,360
 and you've got the parking there,

1127
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:15,880
 you're going to have people going over the...

1128
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:21,640
 In the issue, somebody mentioned doors opening on a car

1129
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:23,800
 as you're walking by.

1130
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,640
 I guess if you put the concrete in there,

1131
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,480
 you couldn't get out on that side as easily

1132
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:33,240
 with only a seven and a half foot width.

1133
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:35,160
 You're talking about New York,

1134
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:39,160
 the thing they use to kind of prevent mid-block crossing,

1135
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:44,360
 are those metal, like, movable fences, right?

1136
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:47,560
 With slats like that and the bar across the top.

1137
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,440
 And it's got a base which I think is narrower in footprint

1138
01:21:50,440 --> 01:21:53,400
 than the, what were you calling it, the New Jersey barriers?

1139
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:54,840
 That might be what you had in mind.

1140
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:59,240
 But I guess for me, I think it's 25 years ago

1141
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,640
 was the last time Hickory was redone thereabouts.

1142
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:09,080
 And so this is a major gateway of the community.

1143
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:13,640
 Most everybody that's ever gone to UNT has been to this part.

1144
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:15,000
 You might not have been to all of campus,

1145
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,200
 but you've been to this area.

1146
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:21,480
 And so to me, it's incumbent upon us as a council

1147
01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:25,720
 to take pride in this and make sure that it's done right

1148
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:27,400
 and works well.

1149
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:32,600
 So I'd like to know what UNT thinks a little bit more

1150
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,320
 about the option three, where they stand on it.

1151
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:40,200
 Did you, were you about to say something else?

1152
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:42,920
 I just wanted to make sure that you know

1153
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:44,680
 that I really like the flower boxes.

1154
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:51,160
 Well, this is the Committee on the Environment.

1155
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:54,840
 Yeah, I would love to understand a little bit better

1156
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:59,080
 what the root zone issue might be or might not be.

1157
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,320
 There are quite a few trees that will be impacted

1158
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:02,920
 if we go and widen the sidewalk.

1159
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:04,760
 The current sidewalk, we have checked.

1160
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,680
 It's between eight and 10 feet wide.

1161
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:06,840
 Yeah.

1162
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,120
 It's on the wider side, but we will need more than 10 feet.

1163
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:15,640
 So if you look at this photo, CVS is kind of to your left rear.

1164
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:22,360
 You have the retaining wall, hydrant, and then up here,

1165
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:23,720
 I don't know if you can see very well,

1166
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,360
 but this is where you would have to seat up the bicycles here

1167
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:30,200
 and then you would have your sidewalk out here.

1168
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:34,360
 So there are lampposts and then quite a few trees.

1169
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:38,280
 The other issue is there are steps starting right

1170
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:42,280
 where the retaining wall is if you go further down from CVS

1171
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:43,800
 and those need to be redesigned.

1172
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,160
 If we move it closer, then you don't get the height for the steps.

1173
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:50,680
 So it becomes an engineering challenge to add that width there.

1174
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,480
 You like a challenge.

1175
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:53,640
 Yeah.

1176
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:57,560
 Is there anything that says a sidewalk has to be perfectly straight

1177
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,520
 and not go on the other side of the tree and weave between them?

1178
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,040
 Yeah, because I think my guess is we probably all--

1179
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:05,160
 this is the beauty of the environment.

1180
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:07,640
 That we probably all like to preserve the trees

1181
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:08,760
 that are part of the beauty of the area.

1182
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,400
 UNT is amenable to that.

1183
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:12,920
 Yes, it's a UNT.

1184
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,480
 It's-- we don't have the right of way.

1185
01:24:15,480 --> 01:24:17,400
 It's talking to UNT if they're--

1186
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:17,640
 Yeah.

1187
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,720
 They have a lot of shared objectives here, though, right?

1188
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:20,220
 Yeah.

1189
01:24:20,220 --> 01:24:23,560
 I just don't want to lose parking because I know how--

1190
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:28,120
 in that area, when the space opens up,

1191
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:32,440
 it gets filled back up when college is in session in a heartbeat.

1192
01:24:32,440 --> 01:24:33,960
 I'd like to-- go ahead.

1193
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:34,460
 I'm sorry.

1194
01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:41,880
 I'd like to make a couple of points that are questions embedded in them

1195
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,200
 related to the perceived trade-off of bike lane and parking.

1196
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:49,160
 One is, I just want to acknowledge,

1197
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:50,280
 just so we're open between us,

1198
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:54,840
 I asked explicitly for a review of the data from studies that are done.

1199
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:56,440
 Are you prepared to share anything about that?

1200
01:24:56,440 --> 01:25:01,480
 Yes, it's not included in the report, but--

1201
01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:05,640
 so we received a very extensive literature review

1202
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:09,240
 that was put together by some professional researchers.

1203
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:14,360
 It's been done in the past about what are the impacts

1204
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:17,560
 of removing parking and adding bicycle infrastructure.

1205
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:23,960
 Of those, it's difficult to draw a direct comparison

1206
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:29,560
 because many of the sample areas were New York City,

1207
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,960
 San Francisco, downtown Toronto,

1208
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:39,240
 large metropolitan areas with complementary transit

1209
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:40,920
 and lots of other things going on.

1210
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:51,480
 But there is evidence that bicyclists drive higher sales

1211
01:25:51,480 --> 01:25:53,880
 and especially in certain numbers of businesses.

1212
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:57,000
 They make more trips more frequently.

1213
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:58,680
 If you're traveling on a bicycle,

1214
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,480
 you're much less likely to drive to the far side of town

1215
01:26:01,480 --> 01:26:03,000
 to hit Walmart or something,

1216
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,240
 which is not at all friendly to bicycles or something like that.

1217
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,000
 Already, the pedestrian nature of this area,

1218
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,960
 the bicyclists who are accessing the campus and so forth,

1219
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,600
 we know are already in the area using it.

1220
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:21,000
 But I did not find something specific enough

1221
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:26,040
 to a town in Texas or the Midwest or something like that,

1222
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:32,040
 a mid-sized town where there was a strong indicator

1223
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:37,400
 that removing parking absolutely made an economic case

1224
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:38,120
 and made sense.

1225
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:41,320
 I appreciate your responding to the request.

1226
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:44,440
 Another issue I'd like to take up,

1227
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:49,000
 given this potential of a trade-off,

1228
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:51,400
 although actually you're hearing a lot of support

1229
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:55,240
 for making the pie bigger with option three,

1230
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:56,680
 if we can save the trees.

1231
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:01,880
 But another thing that, I don't know if it's explicitly said,

1232
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:05,000
 it's certainly implicitly in Oak Gateway

1233
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:09,880
 is the idea of making this even more of an area

1234
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:10,920
 with a sense of place.

1235
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:15,320
 And I don't know why so frequently I hear raised

1236
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:20,040
 but never seriously considered this business of closing off

1237
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:22,600
 that section of fry one way or the other.

1238
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,960
 You talked about possibly closing it off at the Hickory side,

1239
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:27,320
 which I see some advantages to.

1240
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:31,320
 What had occurred to me, not having heard that idea,

1241
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:36,600
 was you extend the sidewalk in front of the shops

1242
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:40,760
 across Mulberry and you pick up space that right now

1243
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:44,360
 is Mulberry Street or is that angle, right?

1244
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:48,680
 So it gives you the possibility of your one earth right there.

1245
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:53,080
 >> Air, sir? >> Yeah, right now you've got

1246
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:55,480
 parallel parking, I don't know if it's by law,

1247
01:27:55,480 --> 01:27:58,120
 but something by practice and it's in the picture

1248
01:27:58,120 --> 01:27:59,960
 along the west side.

1249
01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:03,000
 You could go angle there and pick up spaces.

1250
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,520
 You could pick up pedestrian and bike amenities

1251
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:08,920
 like bike rack at the southern end.

1252
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:16,120
 In other words, if you extend the business side sidewalk

1253
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:20,760
 straight south, right, until it crosses Mulberry.

1254
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:23,640
 And you see what I'm saying?

1255
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:27,000
 So you pick up that whole bit that's, you know,

1256
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:31,400
 you close it off there, still allow emergency vehicles

1257
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:34,040
 in and out, deliveries in and out,

1258
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:37,960
 and obviously the cars were parking there in and out,

1259
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:39,320
 but it's not a through street.

1260
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:43,960
 The bus can stop at the corner of Hickory and Welch.

1261
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,920
 They stop all along the way, I know, there's nothing

1262
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,440
 precious about that particular spot.

1263
01:28:48,440 --> 01:28:53,400
 You pick up parking spaces, you add the possibility

1264
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:58,040
 of a greater sense of place to the Fry Street area,

1265
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:01,080
 and you still allow Hickory to be the arterial.

1266
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,400
 Now as far as option five, I don't know if there's anybody

1267
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,400
 here who could speak to how it feels to get hit

1268
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:07,240
 at 20 miles an hour, I don't think it's great.

1269
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:11,720
 So I'm not that compelled by how common it would feel

1270
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:15,160
 to get hit by 20 miles an hour, so I'm more inclined

1271
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,240
 to have the straight, protected path through.

1272
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:22,280
 And if we can do option three, I'd totally support that,

1273
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,440
 but that's not mutually exclusive with the idea of,

1274
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:28,360
 you know, adding that sense of space to the Fry Street area

1275
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:30,120
 and some parking.

1276
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:35,320
 If I, or may I at least address that?

1277
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:40,120
 So I really agree with what you're saying,

1278
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:45,000
 and I think there does need to be some more holistic

1279
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,560
 thinking about this area and what's going on.

1280
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:53,720
 In our contract with the consultant, we were limited

1281
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:56,200
 in a way, I actually brought up, hey, what if we close

1282
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:58,200
 this off, and they're like, I think we're kind of

1283
01:29:58,200 --> 01:29:59,400
 getting off the scope there.

1284
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:05,720
 So I like it, I would be from, as bike and pedestrian

1285
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,480
 subject matter expert, I would love to talk about

1286
01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:10,120
 that some more.

1287
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,320
 I just, I don't know where would it be economic development

1288
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,520
 or planning or like how that would--

1289
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,120
 Where is the room for something that would be good

1290
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:18,600
 for the city?

1291
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:19,480
 There must be a place.

1292
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:27,800
 It's part of, it is part of mobility.

1293
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:29,000
 That's great.

1294
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:33,240
 So just to better understand, quickly understand,

1295
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:37,800
 you want to shut the northbound traffic along Avenue A Fry

1296
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:38,760
 or the southbound traffic--

1297
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,160
 Well, look, if I can just respond to the question.

1298
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,080
 It was just my idea.

1299
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:46,280
 I'm always interested in hearing a build to a better idea.

1300
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,680
 And actually, I can't even say it was my idea.

1301
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:50,680
 I took it credit where credit is due.

1302
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:54,440
 It came from a cyclist, and I just thought, wow,

1303
01:30:54,440 --> 01:30:55,400
 that solves a lot of problems.

1304
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:55,800
 Susie Roomer.

1305
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:57,560
 Mr. Roomer, yeah, yeah.

1306
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:58,520
 If he's not here, he's here.

1307
01:30:58,520 --> 01:30:59,640
 It's very, very--

1308
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:00,680
 She'll watch it.

1309
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:01,160
 Yeah.

1310
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,400
 No, no, not Susie, it was her husband.

1311
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:04,280
 Oh, Garrett, okay.

1312
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:04,840
 Yeah.

1313
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:06,360
 He said, yeah, you know, I've always thought,

1314
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:08,600
 but then I've subsequently heard it from other people.

1315
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:09,880
 Yeah, once it's kind of in your mind,

1316
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:11,080
 it's kind of hard to let go.

1317
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:15,480
 But yeah, the suggestion that I have made for consideration

1318
01:31:15,480 --> 01:31:17,320
 was you close it off.

1319
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:21,160
 You have Mulberry end at basically the sidewalk

1320
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,320
 on the east side of Avenue A.

1321
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:30,440
 And I was anticipating the access in and out of the north,

1322
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:32,200
 but it's just the way I thought of it.

1323
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:33,480
 You know, it doesn't mean there's not a better way.

1324
01:31:33,480 --> 01:31:34,440
 It wouldn't happen.

1325
01:31:34,440 --> 01:31:37,560
 It could be closed off entirely to vehicles.

1326
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,760
 This intersection, no vehicles out, no vehicles in.

1327
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:42,760
 It could be closed in one direction.

1328
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:44,600
 There's lots of good ideas.

1329
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:49,880
 It could also be open to only buses and emergency vehicles

1330
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:51,000
 or something like that.

1331
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,960
 Well, I think you have to allow deliveries.

1332
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:54,440
 I mean, that's--

1333
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:54,840
 Yeah.

1334
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,880
 Right, that's the lifeblood of that block.

1335
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:06,040
 Mr. Chair, if I may, because you also have a tour,

1336
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,360
 you know, later this afternoon or here shortly.

1337
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:09,400
 You think we're getting long?

1338
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,000
 No, no, you can talk as long as you want.

1339
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:14,120
 But if you would like at the end, you know,

1340
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,440
 certainly this would be like a concluding item

1341
01:32:16,440 --> 01:32:18,920
 type discussion that we could look at some of that

1342
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:20,360
 and do an informal staff report,

1343
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:22,680
 bring it back to the committee and the whole council.

1344
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:24,280
 I request the informal staff report now.

1345
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:27,960
 It is pertinent to this posting in that it addresses

1346
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:29,080
 the parking trade-off.

1347
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:31,320
 No, I understood, but just as it means to--

1348
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,520
 I assert, Mr. Chair, it is pertinent to the posting.

1349
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:36,760
 Go ahead, I'm sorry.

1350
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:40,520
 Just from the standpoint of allow staff to do that research,

1351
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:43,640
 I'd hate to put Mark on the spot about just trying to provide

1352
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:45,400
 some what-ifs and--

1353
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:46,200
 Absolutely.

1354
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:48,920
 Clearly, it opens the door for the consideration of staff.

1355
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,800
 And that way, we can work with economic development,

1356
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,840
 planning, engineering, and even DCTA,

1357
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:55,960
 because what it affects with them.

1358
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:59,080
 So it allows us to kind of have that more holistic conversation,

1359
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,600
 internal and external, and see what options are available,

1360
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:04,360
 and the cost and other things that just

1361
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:06,600
 may affect that area long term.

1362
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:08,360
 Well, so-- go ahead.

1363
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:11,560
 I was ready to kind of try to articulate a consensus.

1364
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:15,000
 Just to kind of add to what I'd like to see from staff,

1365
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,680
 because we've got a pathway on Sycamore that's planned,

1366
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:22,920
 that we've already gotten funds from COG for.

1367
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:27,160
 And is that going to be just pedestrian?

1368
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:29,560
 Because I understood that to be an 8 or 10-foot wide.

1369
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,280
 That's a multi-use trail that's 10 to 12 feet wide.

1370
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:34,280
 So as we're looking at this little area,

1371
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:36,120
 we need to see how we connect these.

1372
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:37,640
 That could be, you know--

1373
01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:42,280
 Sycamore to Welch.

1374
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:45,000
 And there are also improvements on Welch as part of that same--

1375
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,120
 So Welch will be road diet where you have one lane

1376
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:51,160
 in each direction with bike lanes on either side.

1377
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:56,600
 So since some of the capacity on Welch will be reduced,

1378
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,320
 the parallel is Avenue A to get in and out,

1379
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:01,000
 and is the access for the businesses.

1380
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,400
 So we have to look at more holistic.

1381
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:06,680
 Is it even an option given that we're going

1382
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:09,000
 already set in one direction for Welch?

1383
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:13,960
 And we can bring it back on that one.

1384
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:15,640
 Okay, and Council Member Briggs?

1385
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:16,840
 I have a few questions.

1386
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:20,280
 One, is our mobility--

1387
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,680
 I mean, I know that our mobility and thoroughfare plan

1388
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,760
 are getting updated, and along with that,

1389
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:27,960
 it's our sidewalk is getting updated as well.

1390
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:29,160
 What about our bike plan?

1391
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:31,880
 2012 is-- As part of the mobility plan.

1392
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:35,800
 And so that will also be into that scope as well.

1393
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,320
 Okay, because I feel like we need a big review of that

1394
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:43,160
 so that we can kind of get a holistic view of what's going on.

1395
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:46,280
 And I think it was just kind of piece milled together before,

1396
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:48,280
 and we're kind of going through that now

1397
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:50,920
 because we're doing all of this stuff on Hickory,

1398
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:52,920
 and then we see that Welch and Sycamore

1399
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:58,280
 is going to be a really nice way to get into and across to downtown.

1400
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:01,400
 So it's just kind of like, do we do that now

1401
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:05,000
 to avoid Carol and Hickory where people are getting hit,

1402
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:06,600
 and it's really, really scary?

1403
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:12,120
 So I mean, I think we need to have a bigger, broader discussion on that.

1404
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,920
 But the other questions I have for this.

1405
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:22,680
 On Avenue E, currently on Hickory, at Avenue E, there's no bike lane.

1406
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:24,200
 Is it going to be a bike lane,

1407
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:27,000
 or is it just all of a sudden not a bike lane in that area,

1408
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:33,000
 and then it-- so our plan is to have a full bike lane of some sort

1409
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,480
 from Bonnie Bray all the way down.

1410
01:35:35,480 --> 01:35:39,960
 Because right now it says bike lane ends,

1411
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:44,440
 and there's-- it just kind of like dots and ends.

1412
01:35:44,440 --> 01:35:47,000
 And is that temporary for the construction?

1413
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,000
 I think they just haven't striped it yet.

1414
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:50,200
 They have not striped it.

1415
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:51,160
 I think it's temporary.

1416
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:52,840
 The bike lane should extend all the way.

1417
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:53,480
 All the way through.

1418
01:35:53,480 --> 01:35:54,280
 So that's the plan.

1419
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:57,320
 Okay, I just wanted to confirm that as well.

1420
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:02,840
 And as far as it being a one-way street, Hickory,

1421
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,040
 does that mean the bike lane is a one-way bike lane?

1422
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:06,600
 Correct.

1423
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:07,880
 It's only one direction.

1424
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:11,400
 And so on-- you just said a boy band.

1425
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:17,880
 And so on the Oak Street, is that going to be the same?

1426
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,680
 Is that how people are going to move back and get--

1427
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:21,080
 Correct.

1428
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:23,000
 It's the same direction of the traffic.

1429
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:24,600
 Bike lanes are designed that way.

1430
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,600
 Right, and so Oak, though, is going to be redone.

1431
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:33,080
 And there's going to be a full bike lane as well on Oak,

1432
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:35,480
 like we are expecting on Hickory from--

1433
01:36:35,480 --> 01:36:39,320
 That's part of the master plan, yes, correct.

1434
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:39,820
 Okay.

1435
01:36:39,820 --> 01:36:41,960
 I'm just trying to get a holistic view

1436
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:43,960
 to make sure that we're not just, you know,

1437
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:46,600
 thinking about these one or two blocks here

1438
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,280
 and putting all this thought into it,

1439
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,520
 and then nothing else makes any sense.

1440
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:51,640
 No, let's just do a piecemeal.

1441
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:54,840
 Right, well, I mean, we have done that before.

1442
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:55,400
 Sure.

1443
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:58,440
 So I'm just kind of going through here

1444
01:36:58,440 --> 01:37:00,280
 and making sure all our questions get answered.

1445
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:04,520
 So I think that's pretty good for now.

1446
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:13,400
 Do we have any plans as a city to have a private lot

1447
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:16,920
 or a city parking lot anywhere in this area,

1448
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:19,480
 like we do in the downtown area?

1449
01:37:19,480 --> 01:37:25,560
 Like on the northwest corner of Oak and A, for instance?

1450
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:27,720
 Well, somewhere, I mean, have we--

1451
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:29,320
 But not occupied?

1452
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:33,560
 At this point, I don't know, and we can look into this.

1453
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:37,080
 This is much more involved exercise and effort,

1454
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:40,520
 and I think it's beyond scope of what we're talking about.

1455
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:42,200
 Right, well, we're talking about removing parking.

1456
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:43,000
 Parking, correct.

1457
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:44,600
 And so for me to be comfortable

1458
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:46,600
 because the lifeline of businesses--

1459
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:51,400
 and I know that bicyclists use the businesses more

1460
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:52,440
 in their studies as well.

1461
01:37:52,440 --> 01:37:55,000
 But in reality, those spaces are used,

1462
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:57,400
 and if they're not there, then those cars aren't there.

1463
01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:59,320
 So I don't know if they're going to--

1464
01:37:59,320 --> 01:38:02,440
 and in the study, we have parking behaviors,

1465
01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:04,760
 but I didn't see any pedestrian behaviors

1466
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,040
 or bicycle behaviors in that same count

1467
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:09,640
 unless they were all included.

1468
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:15,400
 Oh, right, the purpose of the camera

1469
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:18,920
 was just to record parking.

1470
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:24,360
 The camera has great data, has 10 gigabytes worth of data,

1471
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,320
 I mean, like a week's worth in three-hour chunks.

1472
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:30,440
 And so we had an intern with the consultant

1473
01:38:30,440 --> 01:38:34,760
 go through nine or 12 hours of it, sort of picked randomly.

1474
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:40,680
 So it was just a matter of not having the manpower and time

1475
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:43,080
 to go through it with a fine-tooth comb.

1476
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:45,960
 OK, well, ultimately, I just-- my goal is to make sure

1477
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,760
 that this area is walkable and safe

1478
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:50,840
 and friendly to the pedestrians

1479
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:53,320
 because it is heavily used and accessed.

1480
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:57,960
 And it's crazy right now, and I just want to make sure--

1481
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:01,560
 because I see lots of good suggestions and options,

1482
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:03,160
 but I don't think that they're all--

1483
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:05,240
 if you do this, you can't do this or do this.

1484
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:08,840
 I don't-- I think that at least there's one good suggestion

1485
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,080
 in each option that can all be combined

1486
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,520
 to make sure that we are doing our everything we can

1487
01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:18,840
 to calm traffic, protect the bicyclists,

1488
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,000
 and alleviate some of the parking issues.

1489
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:24,600
 Still, three is your lead?

1490
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:25,800
 I want it all.

1491
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,000
 I want my cake and I'm going to eat it too.

1492
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:30,760
 Because I was going to articulate a consensus

1493
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:34,200
 that centered around three, you know,

1494
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:38,680
 at least investigating UNT and tree issues.

1495
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:40,600
 But are you not there anymore?

1496
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:42,520
 No, I am.

1497
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:47,240
 I think that three is good, but I do want to also ask

1498
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:49,800
 about bicycle lights because I've been in cities

1499
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:53,320
 where bicycle lanes have actual lights

1500
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,720
 and the traffic has to pay attention to them.

1501
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:59,800
 And if that would help alleviate some of the turning issues.

1502
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:04,200
 So if the bicycles get the light ahead of time and then--

1503
01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:05,880
 I mean, I don't know, of course,

1504
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:07,880
 but that's just a question I have

1505
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:09,240
 that I'd like to explore on that.

1506
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:14,680
 Because that part seems to be a big concern for the cyclist.

1507
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,560
 Okay, yeah, we can look into bicycle lights

1508
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:19,080
 if we can implement them.

1509
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:19,580
 Okay.

1510
01:40:19,580 --> 01:40:26,440
 Do you accept that as consensus direction?

1511
01:40:26,440 --> 01:40:29,640
 That, you know, I would like to investigate the do-ability

1512
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:33,640
 of three, you know, taking into account UNT's willingness

1513
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:37,000
 and our ability to move around the trees

1514
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,480
 and keep them healthy and extant.

1515
01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:42,200
 And then a second option, if not?

1516
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:45,640
 What are you saying?

1517
01:40:45,640 --> 01:40:46,600
 Oh, do we need to--

1518
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:47,800
 Do you want to, well, I don't know.

1519
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:53,640
 I'd rather wait on that to see whether other--

1520
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,280
 you know, I want to address what the other options are

1521
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,600
 for adding parking to the area, right?

1522
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:00,520
 And have that part of that conversation

1523
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,560
 rather than say default right away to something else.

1524
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:05,880
 That's taking into account the other parts of the picture.

1525
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:06,840
 That's where I'd be.

1526
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:07,340
 Okay.

1527
01:41:07,340 --> 01:41:10,200
 So that's our direction.

1528
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:13,800
 So if there's no other comments, I'm going to close that item.

1529
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:14,520
 Thank you very much.

1530
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:16,200
 Thank you, everyone who came to speak.

1531
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:19,480
 And I hope you felt your influence, all of you.

1532
01:41:19,480 --> 01:41:23,160
 Mr. Chair, I would like for Preetam to address just the timing

1533
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:26,760
 because I think one of the reasons why this item's here is--

1534
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:28,040
 Because they're working on the road right now.

1535
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:29,320
 Well, we've got to stripe it, you know.

1536
01:41:29,320 --> 01:41:32,280
 So what do we do in regards, I mean, if we're working with UNT--

1537
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:35,320
 You've got to call UNT, sounds like step one.

1538
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:37,160
 We'll do that, but just--

1539
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:38,200
 Any other advice you need?

1540
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:40,680
 We will do that.

1541
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:45,400
 But the plan is to wrap these two segments by summer

1542
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:47,800
 and make sure that we're strapping is back,

1543
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:51,640
 whatever parking we had and/or the bike lane is back in.

1544
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:55,160
 And then we're going to work from the section from Welch to Carroll,

1545
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:55,960
 we'll work on that.

1546
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:57,800
 We're still in design phase for that.

1547
01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:59,480
 But we're going to get out of this area

1548
01:41:59,480 --> 01:42:04,520
 and be done with construction and not wait with tabs on the street

1549
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:06,600
 and waiting for some decisions to happen.

1550
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:10,840
 So we have to make quick decisions.

1551
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:13,640
 I feel the option three requires a lot of design,

1552
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:18,600
 right of way considerations, exchange of access easements,

1553
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:21,880
 as well as coordination with UNT.

1554
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:24,360
 With all due respect, you showed it to us as an option.

1555
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:26,680
 And I feel entitled to take it.

1556
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:28,760
 You can't tell me now, oh, it's too hard.

1557
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:31,560
 I think you have to do it, you know, see what it means to do it.

1558
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:33,320
 And then take it to council, obviously.

1559
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:36,600
 It's not a matter of you can or cannot do it.

1560
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:38,840
 It's a matter of what do we do as an interim.

1561
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:41,000
 We're moving forward with our street project.

1562
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:42,280
 There needs to be a direction.

1563
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:46,680
 Let's go ahead and get back to what it is, what it was.

1564
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:48,920
 Are you telling me it's impossible to do that on this timing

1565
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:50,840
 or we just don't know if it's possible?

1566
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,960
 I think you ought to find-- my opinion is we've got to find out

1567
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:56,200
 if it's possible on the timing that you desire.

1568
01:42:56,200 --> 01:43:03,160
 Yeah, I think it would be difficult to design this whole thing.

1569
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:06,360
 Within the few months that we have,

1570
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:08,840
 because we have to get this designed.

1571
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:12,280
 It has to be engineered design because of the retaining walls,

1572
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:15,240
 stormwater improvements or stormwater inlets

1573
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:20,360
 that have been in the ground for I would say more than 50 years.

1574
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:27,320
 So it would be difficult to get something designed

1575
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:30,760
 and construction ready in the timeframe we're talking about

1576
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:31,880
 for option number three.

1577
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:37,240
 I don't know, if you tell me it's difficult,

1578
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:38,920
 okay, we do lots of things that are difficult.

1579
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:40,200
 I mean, if you're telling me it can't be done,

1580
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:42,040
 then I think that--

1581
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:46,040
 Let's go back and take a look at it and just get the,

1582
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:47,800
 you know, with work with the consultants to see

1583
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:50,360
 from an engineering perspective what can be done.

1584
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:55,160
 We can make our-- we can start working with our partners at UNT

1585
01:43:55,160 --> 01:44:00,520
 to certainly solidify the space and then work through that.

1586
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:02,920
 I mean, you're right, if that's an option,

1587
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:05,880
 if it was placed on there, then it's doable.

1588
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,120
 So we need just to be able to work through those things.

1589
01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:10,120
 There's a fantasy, it should have been labeled as a fantasy.

1590
01:44:10,120 --> 01:44:15,640
 Just add a unicorn stamp to it.

1591
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:20,280
 You put it on the menu, you know, we ordered it.

1592
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:23,800
 So what I'm hearing is we move forward with strapping the parking

1593
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:25,800
 the way it is and then we'll work on option three,

1594
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:28,360
 which is offside, which is on the UNT side.

1595
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:34,520
 And that's a fair direction now.

1596
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:36,200
 That's the opposite of what was just said.

1597
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:38,680
 So I think what you're saying is that right now,

1598
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:41,320
 you have to do the road work.

1599
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:46,120
 So can you not just leave it unpainted and unstriped

1600
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:47,640
 while it continues down?

1601
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:52,520
 Because King's Row has not had striping for like five months.

1602
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:56,520
 Like it's been micro sealed, but no striping.

1603
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,800
 So I mean, it's like chalked on there.

1604
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:04,120
 But it has, so I mean, I don't know if we can chalk or...

1605
01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:06,120
 It becomes tough in this area with parking.

1606
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:08,600
 Then if you don't have space to strive,

1607
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,000
 then people park on the curb, on the curb,

1608
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:12,360
 it becomes a safety hazard.

1609
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:14,120
 That's where I'm coming from.

1610
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:16,600
 I'm personally willing to entertain this conversation.

1611
01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:19,800
 Well, it dovetails perfectly into the next item,

1612
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:21,720
 which is meeting times and dates.

1613
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:25,400
 And I think you see a willingness to take extra steps

1614
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:28,200
 to be supportive on the part of committee members.

1615
01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:30,760
 And if you need us to come back quickly

1616
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:31,880
 when you have more information,

1617
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:33,960
 but the direction that you heard from Mario

1618
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:37,800
 is the opposite of what you said, which is go find out.

1619
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:40,360
 Difficult, but doable or not.

1620
01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:43,720
 And maybe you'll know more in not that much time,

1621
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:48,520
 whether or not you can achieve this unrealistic timing.

1622
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:50,600
 But I'm not for bait and switch.

1623
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:51,960
 I know you didn't intend it that way,

1624
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:54,680
 but that's how it ends up feeling.

1625
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:55,720
 We'll take a look at it.

1626
01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:58,440
 - I have one more comment on this,

1627
01:45:58,440 --> 01:46:00,040
 because what we talked about parking,

1628
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:03,560
 but we didn't talk about enforcement of parking

1629
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:04,840
 and metered parking.

1630
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:11,840
 And I do think that if this committee wants to make sure

1631
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:12,600
 that parking is there,

1632
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:15,480
 we need to make sure that it's enforced somehow.

1633
01:46:15,480 --> 01:46:20,760
 And I know that meters may be an option.

1634
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:23,400
 I hope, I don't know if I would like for that

1635
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:27,240
 to come back in the conversation, because it's, yeah.

1636
01:46:27,240 --> 01:46:28,440
 If it's not going to be,

1637
01:46:28,440 --> 01:46:31,960
 if it's two hour free parking right now,

1638
01:46:31,960 --> 01:46:33,240
 it's not enforced.

1639
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:36,040
 And so there needs to be some mechanism of that

1640
01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:39,560
 or an idea of how we're going to handle the parking

1641
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:40,760
 and the movement of the cars.

1642
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:43,240
 - So potentially come bring back the meters

1643
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:44,520
 that were removed from.

1644
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:46,600
 - But being city, not university.

1645
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:47,080
 - Oh, I see.

1646
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:49,720
 - And then we can pay for all the replanting

1647
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:51,560
 of the flowers and the flower boxes.

1648
01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:53,880
 - Well, we can also look at, you know, there's some

1649
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:55,800
 smart options, you know, with parking.

1650
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,120
 They're being used in other parts of the country.

1651
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:00,280
 - But, you know, I'd say that would be an item

1652
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:01,160
 for us to then review.

1653
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:05,560
 I, you know, I don't know if, you know,

1654
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:07,080
 Pratima's landed on that, but I would need,

1655
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:08,760
 you know, more discussion on those options.

1656
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:11,560
 And it's a whole separate piece, you know.

1657
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:14,440
 I understand the impulse, but it's definitely,

1658
01:47:14,440 --> 01:47:18,520
 you know, an unaddressed issue.

1659
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:21,800
 - So are we okay to close the item?

1660
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:26,920
 Yeah, Pratima, I'm sorry, I'm squeezing your shoes,

1661
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:29,080
 but, you know, you put me in a box.

1662
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:31,400
 We put each other mutually in a box.

1663
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:33,000
 Let's enjoy being in a box for a little while.

1664
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:35,880
 But, you know, it's not a personal thing.

1665
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:38,920
 So, okay, I'm going to close out item C.

1666
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:42,200
 Let's move on to item D, identify,

1667
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:44,760
 discuss meeting times, dates, and provide direction

1668
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:47,880
 for future mobility committee meeting dates and times.

1669
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:49,880
 Did you have a proposal?

1670
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:53,800
 - So the reason this item is being considered,

1671
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:58,280
 I think a few months ago, we came to the committee

1672
01:47:58,280 --> 01:48:02,600
 and we talked about what day we wanted to pick.

1673
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,760
 And I think there was a consensus on Tuesday

1674
01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:07,080
 being the right day because you were here for council.

1675
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:11,800
 And it would be, it would work out as a whole day

1676
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:13,560
 for all of you to be here.

1677
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:17,240
 Now, recently, I think there were some changes

1678
01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:21,000
 and the council start date has been shifted up.

1679
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:23,880
 It's no longer, I think it's moving towards

1680
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:25,720
 not being one o'clock or two o'clock,

1681
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:27,880
 which was originally in the works,

1682
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:31,800
 to being more of a noon start time.

1683
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:35,240
 Given that, if our start time was still 10,

1684
01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:38,360
 that only gave us an hour, not even hour and a half,

1685
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:41,480
 because they need that space for one hour to prep.

1686
01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:44,920
 That's the reason this is on the agenda,

1687
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:49,800
 is do we wanna consider to move that 10 o'clock timeline

1688
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:51,800
 to a nine o'clock where we meet in the morning

1689
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:55,800
 and that gives at a minimum two hours until 11.

1690
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:59,720
 And then we can move forward to the council meeting

1691
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:00,920
 from that point.

1692
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:03,160
 Is that something that is acceptable?

1693
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:04,920
 Because that's the recommendation.

1694
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,040
 We're not changing the date

1695
01:49:06,040 --> 01:49:09,240
 because I think it worked well for everyone on the committee.

1696
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:11,400
 We're just recommending let's get some more time

1697
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:15,160
 because every time you hear we're running out of time,

1698
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:16,120
 we're getting squeezed.

1699
01:49:16,120 --> 01:49:17,800
 - Yeah, and I think the other thing, too,

1700
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,600
 that Preetam's not mentioning is trying to be respectful

1701
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:25,400
 of the fact that you are here for basically all of Tuesday,

1702
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:28,120
 especially if we start at nine or 10 or whatever,

1703
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:31,320
 depending on that evening's agenda, it could be very long.

1704
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:34,200
 So just being cognizant of your time.

1705
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:36,680
 And again, we were trying to start a two o'clock work session

1706
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:38,840
 but starting to pare back to,

1707
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:41,000
 we're starting to extend to starting at noon.

1708
01:49:41,000 --> 01:49:43,400
 And so just, we need the time

1709
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:45,000
 to be able to bring items to you all.

1710
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:47,000
 But they also need the time in this room

1711
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:47,960
 to prep for the meetings,

1712
01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:51,160
 unless we want to decide to use a different meeting,

1713
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:52,280
 which would be the council chambers.

1714
01:49:52,280 --> 01:49:54,840
 But it does change the dynamics of the meetings

1715
01:49:54,840 --> 01:49:55,720
 if you're not in here.

1716
01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:57,080
 - Y'all, references?

1717
01:49:57,080 --> 01:50:03,080
 - I do want to point out that that conference space

1718
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:04,520
 is not videotaped.

1719
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:08,360
 So we can't really, council chambers, okay.

1720
01:50:11,240 --> 01:50:13,800
 - How do you feel about going earlier?

1721
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:14,920
 - I'm fine with earlier.

1722
01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:18,360
 - Okay, so 7.30.

1723
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:21,800
 - I'm just thinking 6.30.

1724
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:23,000
 That's what I do on Wednesday mornings.

1725
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:24,760
 - Well, I'm gonna sleep down a little bit.

1726
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:30,920
 Yeah, so I don't hear any problem with nine.

1727
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,560
 And I truly wouldn't mind going earlier myself.

1728
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:35,960
 - I have to get my kids to school.

1729
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:37,320
 - Nine is the earliest.

1730
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:38,920
 - And I think if we could start at nine

1731
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:43,000
 and just sort of kind of get to a hard stop

1732
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:44,360
 around 11, 10, 11, 15.

1733
01:50:44,360 --> 01:50:46,920
 It gives the staff enough time to prep the room,

1734
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:49,080
 make sure that all the video equipment is working

1735
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:51,880
 and everything is prepped for the use of the council.

1736
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:53,160
 I think that'll help.

1737
01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:53,480
 - Okay.

1738
01:50:53,480 --> 01:51:00,600
 I'd like to do concluding items first

1739
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:04,520
 before item E, if that's all right.

1740
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:09,000
 What item E is, is we're all gonna go on a walk.

1741
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:12,760
 And I think members of the public could tag along.

1742
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:14,040
 Yes, no, right?

1743
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:15,320
 It's an open meeting.

1744
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:18,440
 But easier to do concluding items

1745
01:51:18,440 --> 01:51:19,800
 while we're still sitting here.

1746
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:26,520
 So entertain any concluding items?

1747
01:51:26,520 --> 01:51:29,880
 - I do have one.

1748
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:30,920
 I think I brought this up before,

1749
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:32,520
 but I haven't seen it on the matrix.

1750
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:39,080
 And that is the stoplight at Oak and Avenue C,

1751
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:42,920
 which is with Oak being a one-way street.

1752
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:47,400
 If you're walking in the opposite direction of traffic,

1753
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:50,600
 there is no way to know what that light is doing

1754
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:52,120
 without having to look back over your shoulder

1755
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:54,040
 if it changes when you're midstream.

1756
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:56,600
 There's not a crosswalk signal on that

1757
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:00,200
 for people walking eastbound on Oak Street.

1758
01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:06,440
 - There it goes.

1759
01:52:06,440 --> 01:52:07,800
 - Good.

1760
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:13,080
 - Well, actually, I would like to have this committee review

1761
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:17,560
 all the Sherman updates just so that it's out there

1762
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:19,240
 and can be reviewed by the public.

1763
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:21,800
 I know that there's a lot of stuff going on.

1764
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:24,120
 And we had the traffic study,

1765
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:25,880
 and it was presented in an item.

1766
01:52:25,880 --> 01:52:28,600
 But just if it's as an individual thing,

1767
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:32,920
 of all the information we found out

1768
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:35,320
 so that it can be on the record

1769
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:37,080
 and people can go back and review it all.

1770
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:39,720
 That way I can quit emailing all the time

1771
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:41,720
 about individual things that I keep forgetting.

1772
01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:43,000
 - You would like it as a presentation?

1773
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:43,720
 - Yeah, yeah.

1774
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:45,000
 - Okay, the upcoming meeting, okay.

1775
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,880
 - Yeah, like the light at the loop in Sherman

1776
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:51,080
 and some timing of the things.

1777
01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:51,480
 Thank you.

1778
01:52:51,480 --> 01:52:53,960
 - All right, so I have three somewhere

1779
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:55,240
 just to make sure we got them.

1780
01:52:56,280 --> 01:53:00,680
 One is like an informal staff report

1781
01:53:00,680 --> 01:53:03,880
 potentially leading to consideration

1782
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:08,520
 in this committee of Fry Street one-erf possibilities.

1783
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:15,080
 Second, we'd like us to have a discussion

1784
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:21,080
 in this committee on parking expansion options

1785
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:23,560
 around the Fry Street area.

1786
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:27,400
 And I note specifically whether there's an opportunity

1787
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:30,200
 on the northwest corner of Fry and West Oak.

1788
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:36,040
 And third, different subject.

1789
01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:38,280
 At some point I'd like us to have

1790
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:40,360
 a comprehensive discussion about

1791
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:45,640
 pedestrian and bike crossing options planned

1792
01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:48,680
 for getting across the major

1793
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:52,120
 pedestrian and bike barriers in the city.

1794
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:56,120
 35, University Drive, Bonnie Bray,

1795
01:53:56,120 --> 01:53:59,400
 present and future, north and south loop 288.

1796
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:01,400
 It's just not obvious where you go.

1797
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:05,400
 And so can avoid cutting the city

1798
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:07,080
 into completely into separate pieces.

1799
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:09,240
 You know, it'd be great to have a discussion

1800
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:11,480
 about how we envision pedestrian

1801
01:54:11,480 --> 01:54:14,120
 and bike connectivity at some point.

1802
01:54:14,120 --> 01:54:15,960
 And Council Member Briggs, you had your final.

1803
01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:17,880
 - No, well just to that point

1804
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:19,160
 because you mentioned Bonnie Bray

1805
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:20,920
 and connectivity with pedestrians

1806
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:23,560
 and right there at Razor Branch on Bonnie Bray

1807
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:26,600
 there's a bus stop, but there's no connectivity to it

1808
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:28,840
 so people are crossing, just they're jaywalking

1809
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:30,920
 from the shopping center to the bus stop

1810
01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:32,040
 on the other side of Torchy.

1811
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:34,360
 So I don't know how we address that,

1812
01:54:34,360 --> 01:54:36,040
 but in that conversation

1813
01:54:36,040 --> 01:54:42,040
 add bus stops to the connectivity, maybe.

1814
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:44,280
 - They're about Torchy's?

1815
01:54:44,280 --> 01:54:49,400
 - So I'm gonna close concluding items

1816
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:53,560
 and I'm gonna open item E which is receive a report,

1817
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:55,080
 hold the discussion and conduct a walking

1818
01:54:55,080 --> 01:54:57,320
 toward the downtown square and provide direction.

1819
01:54:57,320 --> 01:54:59,720
 I'm opening it only to say we're gonna close

1820
01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:04,520
 the indoors portion of that item

1821
01:55:04,520 --> 01:55:07,960
 and go ahead and take this walk

1822
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:13,880
 and I'll close that aspect of the item shortly

1823
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:17,320
 and ask that it come on a future agenda

1824
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:21,400
 for us to discuss our observations from that walk.

1825
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:24,600
 So with that having been said, I'm closing the item

1826
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:27,800
 and I'm adjourning the meeting

1827
01:55:27,800 --> 01:55:34,840
 at the indoor portion of the meeting at 3.55.