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 All right, I'm going to call the meeting to order it is June 12, 2023, it is 530 and we will stand for the pledge please, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 And now we will pledge to the Texas flag.

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 Without any words up there on the screen?

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 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one nation, indivisible.

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 All right, thank you very much. Good to see everybody. All right, we are going to start with our first item on the agenda, which is HLC 23-0302, consider the approval of the May 18, 2023 minutes.

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 It is the 8th, thank you, it is the 8th, 2023, for approval of the minutes, everyone get a chance to read them, they are kind of short.

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 Anyone want to make a motion? All right, let me move approval in a second.

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 In a second, everyone raise your hand if approved.

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 All righty, let's move to item 2B, COA 23-0004, and hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the DIT and development code to

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 rehabilitate the former carriage house at 722 West Oak Street, a local historic landmark property and recorded historic Texas landmark located in the Oak-Hickory Historic District.

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 This site is located on the northeast corner of West Hickory Street and Mount Avenue.

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 COA 23-0004, 722 West Oak Hickory, and Cameron is going to start us off.

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 Thank you, Chair.

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 So as stated, this is located on the northeast corner of West Oak Street and Mount Avenue, highlighted there in red.

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 The owners are Randy Hunt and Annetta Ramsey.

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 It is a construction date of Serpent 1906.

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 It is also known as the Crystal House, and it does have a former carriage house.

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 So just to give a little bit of background on the building's history and the property in general, it was constructed for Jim and Margaret Crystal.

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 The builder/architect was Frank Kraft.

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 The main resident itself has a Victorian Italianate style, and then the former carriage house does have that detail in both the Italianate and that craftsman style.

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 Some of the defining features of that former carriage house, which we'll be focusing on tonight specifically, has that eave overhangs.

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 It has the multi-light windows and that pyramidal roof that you saw in that historic photo.

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 And as stated, it is a local historic landmark and recorded Texas Historic Landmark property.

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 So the request itself is to the rehabilitation of the former carriage house.

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 The carriage house is located on that northern edge of the property along Mounts Avenue.

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 The garage is not part of that recorded Texas Historic Landmark designation, so it didn't require a THC review.

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 Usually you get that letter.

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 So it's just going in front of the HLC this evening.

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 So these are the current conditions of that property.

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 You see that front south façade with the stairs, the north rear façade along Mounts Avenue, the west façade, or the Great Street west façade facing Mounts Avenue,

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 and then the east façade, which is facing an existing garage.

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 So these are the proposed elevation drawings.

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 I'm just showing the front elevation at this moment.

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 The materials have a wooden clapboard siding.

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 It would be using antique and new wooden multi-light windows.

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 And it would have asphalt shingles and paint to match the main residence.

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 So what I wanted to do on this front elevation is show you some of those principles that they're bringing back from the main façade and from that historic documentation you have from that historic tax photo.

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 So they are introducing brackets, which will match that new or the current main residence.

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 They will also bring back the multi-light windows that you see.

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 It's a little hard. I feel like it might be a little pixelated up here, but it is in your backup packet.

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 But there are multi-light windows here shown, and so they are reintroducing those again.

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 And they're bringing back that pyramidal style roof that is on the main residence, but also was seen on that 1946 tax photo.

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 The proposed elevation for the front south façade, as I stated, some of those little details, but also they're going to be bringing the original craftsman style door.

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 They were able to find that door, so they're reintroducing that where the current door is, they're bringing that back.

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 So that will be nice to have some of that original craftsman style detailing that was on that former house or structure.

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 In the rear and the north façade, they will be replacing the two windows on the ground floor that are centrally located.

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 They're going to be doing a faux carriage door. As I stated, it was a former carriage house.

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 They're using it kind of as an educational piece as to what the structure was originally used for.

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 Also have that faux carriage feature at the top there in the center.

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 But the two windows right here and on the ground floor will be remaining.

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 On the east façade, as that is the façade that is facing that existing garage, the two windows on the ground floor will be removed as well as this.

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 That's kind of related to the interior floor plan that they have, but this one window will be remaining.

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 I haven't mentioned it yet, but this exterior stair will be removed.

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 Obviously, it wasn't original to the structure itself, and it will be placed in the interior of this rehabilitated structure.

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 On the west façade, this is facing Mount Street. All these windows will remain in place.

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 The ground floor window will be replaced with a multi-light window as well.

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 This is the proposed roof plan, so that pyramidal roof scheme.

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 Staff's analysis, I'm not going to go into tons of detail, but it was focused on the standards for rehabilitation.

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 It focused on seven of the ten standards, one through six, and then standard nine.

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 Additionally, staff's analysis looked at DDC section 4.9.4C for that Oak-Hickory Historic District,

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 focusing specifically on accessory buildings, architectural detail, façade materials, roof forms, windows, and doors.

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 Staff is recommending approval of a certificate of appropriateness request for the rehabilitation of the former carriage house at 722 West Oak Street,

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 as it does meet that Secretary for Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, and does comply with section 4.9.6C of the DDC.

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 Any questions?

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 Anyone have any questions for Karen?

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 Wouldn't be a meeting if we didn't discuss windows. What does the antique and new windows mean?

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 So they are repurposing a lot of antique windows from salvaged buildings.

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 So it has the original wavy glass, has the multi-lights already in place, so they'll be doing that.

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 And if they aren't able to replace those windows, from my understanding they'll be using new wooden windows that do look historic in nature.

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 And we do have the applicant here, if you do have any questions for him.

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 I was just going to comment that it sounds like they really are trying to be sensitive to meeting those standards for rehabilitation.

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 Staff obviously is comfortable with this.

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 Are you ready for a motion?

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 Do we need to hear from the applicant?

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 Do you all want to hear from the applicant, or do you feel like you can move forward and make a decision?

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 Anything you'd like to add?

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 Yeah.

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 If so, if you don't mind coming up here, it's an issue.

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 Cameron did a great job of doing it.

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 No, actually all of the windows will be antique.

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 I found a seller in South Carolina and we just received the windows yesterday.

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 So the main thing is that the roof that was on the building, the building burned in 1946.

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 So sometime around 1950 they put the gabled roof on it, and that is the roof style.

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 I've been reading a lot about roof styles.

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 It's the roof style that is the most vulnerable to wind.

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 And you may have read how much damage we found inside and how, like we've been told we can't go on the second floor.

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 We're afraid that if the windows lose it would either implode or it would land in our neighbor's yard, which would not be good.

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 You don't know what to be worried about until you know.

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 So we want to go back to the pyramidal style and we want to copy it as faithfully as we can.

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 So it's going to be a lot more expensive, but I'm so excited.

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 And actually the faux door that we're putting on on the street side of the building, we actually found two doors.

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 So we opened up all the walls and found a lot of wood rot in there.

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 So we've had to replace some of the siding so that you couldn't walk through the outside walls.

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 But we actually found two doors.

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 So there was a door in the center that we have recreated and we've actually used antique windows at the top of it.

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 But it won't actually be a door. It will have hardware on it. It will look like you could open it, but you won't be able to.

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 But that was the door that the carriage came out.

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 And then on the west side of the building there was another door for the horse to come out of.

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 So we're not going to reproduce both doors because it's kind of a security issue.

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 We're trying to balance security.

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 So it has been apartments for over 50 years.

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 And what happens with old buildings is that as people make repairs, they do them badly.

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 And so we took out three dumpster loads of modern stuff.

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 But we were able to save quite a bit of beadboard, three-quarter inch, quarter-son of flooring that's an inch thick, or it's an inch wide.

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 And a lot of shiv-labs. So all of the walls of the interior will be either beadboard or shiv-labs.

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 So we're very excited that it's going to look really old.

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 And we found all of the old doors in the attic.

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 So they put water doors in and someone put their fist through a couple of them.

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 So we had to remove them, but we have antique doors.

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 And so inside and out of them. Pretty cool.

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 So we're very excited.

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 Well, thank you. Thank you for the detail, too.

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 Personally, this has nothing to do with the voter or anything.

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 But personally, when you finish it, I'd love to see pictures or something because it sounds dreamy to me.

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 Come by. We're hoping to rent it. And we actually have people already.

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 But yeah, come by. We would gladly show you around.

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 But we do happen to know a lot about the original builder, Jim Crystal, the owner of our house.

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 And he was actually a cowboy.

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 And he worked on the 4-6 Ranch with his uncle, Burt Bermit.

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 And so he was very particular about the carriage house.

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 And he wanted it to be the same level of quality as the house.

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 So it's heartbreaking that it's been treated so badly because it is a 116-year-old building.

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 But I think we're going to get it back to a place where it will stand for 100 years.

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 Nobody's going to think it's a garage apartment anymore.

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 Thank you. Thanks for all the information. Thank you.

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 I move approval of COA 23-0004.

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 We have a motion by Lennie. Do we have a second for approval?

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 Yes, sir.

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 All right. And Lance, second.

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 All in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

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 Same for any names. Okay. Motion passes. Thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 All right. Next piece on the agenda is a work session for HLC 23-002-7.

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 Discussions determine the opportunities for designating the five historic black churches

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 of the Southeast Denton neighborhood.

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 I keep trying to use the mic and I realize I'm not at PNZ right now or anything else.

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 Okay. Here we go.

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 So this was a previous matrix item, I believe it was back in April.

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 This was placed on the matrix on April 10th.

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 So bringing that back this evening.

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 So I just want to kind of run through a brief history of each of the historic black churches in Southeast Denton.

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 I'm not going to go into huge detail, but I just want to kind of give you a background.

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 And then on the last slide, I do show that criteria and kind of talk about what those next steps would be.

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 So in Southeast Denton, we have five historic black churches.

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 We have the St. Andrew Church of God in Christ, which is located at number one.

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 We have Pleasant Grove Baptist Church.

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 We have Mount Pilgrim Christian Methodist Episcopal Church.

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 Number four is St. Emmanuel Baptist Church.

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 And then lastly, we have the St. James African Methodist Episcopal Church.

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 So the first church is St. Andrew Church of God in Christ.

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 It's located at 608 Lake East Street.

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 Just some brief history, it was founded in 1922 by Bishop Fred L. Haynes.

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 Its services were first held in a tent once they were removed from Quaker Town.

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 And then I thought it was really interesting.

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 Within the last 100 years, they only have had six pastors for that church, which is pretty fabulous.

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 Pleasant Grove Baptist Church, this is located at 105 South Wood Street.

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 It was originally founded before 1878, no one knows the exact date.

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 It was originally located in Quaker Town as well.

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 It is now Quaker Town Park.

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 It moved to Solomon Hill, addition in 1923.

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 The current church was constructed in the early 1950s.

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 Staff did notice that there actually is a Denton Historic Landmark plaque.

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 It's hidden right there on the side.

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 I went out there this afternoon.

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 It's not in any log sheets or anything.

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 It's not in any of my documentation.

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 From what I was able to find, it was implemented in 1991,

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 and I don't know if it was a historic narrative or an actual historic designation,

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 because I haven't been able to find an ordinance tied to it.

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 So I'm going to investigate further, but I wanted to let you all know that's where that is at.

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 In regards to Mount Pilgrim CME Church, that's located at 339 Robertson Street.

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 It organized in 1880.

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 Its services were originally located on Hodge Love,

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 which they believe was owned by George and Edwina Hodge,

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 and this is mid-block along Allen Street, so in that southeast Denton neighborhood.

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 The first church was built originally at 337 Robertson Street,

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 and the church that you see here in the photo was built in the early 2000s.

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 St. Emmanuel Baptist Church is located at 509 Lakey Street.

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 It was founded in August of 1906 and located on Sander Street,

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 which is now part of Quaker Town Park.

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 It moved to its current location in 1923s.

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 The current church constructed was during the 1950s, so the one that's shown in the photo,

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 and it did receive a State of Texas Historical Marker in 2006, which is pictured.

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 And then lastly, we have the St. James AME Church, which is located at 608 Lakey Street.

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 This was founded in 1875 by members of the Freedman Town, which later became Quaker Town.

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 It was the first church of Quaker Town, or as we've been able to find out via research,

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 it is located at Oak and Crawford Streets since 1922.

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 The current building that you see in the photo was constructed in 1962,

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 and it also received a State of Texas Historical Marker in 1985.

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 So, as part of our historic landmark criteria, we do have the 13 options, or 13 criteria here.

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 As part of that property, the property must meet one or more of that 13 approval,

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 and each of that criteria that's chosen does have to have supporting documentation.

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 I did link this here so that if you all want this presentation once I'm done,

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 I'm happy to send this out to you all.

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 But if the Commission is interested, this is mentioned in the AIS as well,

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 but if the Commission is interested in pursuing these local designations,

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 the Commission will need to contact the various churches to assess their individual interests

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 in pursuing local historic landmark designations.

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 So I can take any questions, but this is open for discussion, it is a work session,

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 so you all can ask questions, discuss amongst yourselves, and I will be here.

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 Yes.

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 Go ahead.

203
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 Has there been any interest from the Southeast End community at all in doing this?

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 So that is kind of going to be discussed in our next agenda item.

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 I have not received any personal phone calls or emails from any members of the community

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 stating that they are interested.

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 You know, if this is something that the Commission is interested, then it would have to be

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 something that the Commission goes out and talks with those members of the community,

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 or perhaps participates in the Southeast End area plan conversations

210
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,000
 and sees whether or not the community really wants to be involved if this is somebody of interest,

211
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,000
 or if they're wanting to even maybe do state or national.

212
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
 You know, they do have those options as well.

213
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000
 But no, I have not personally received any emails or phone calls.

214
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:05,000
 I just know that the whole question of repairs and things to the churches can be very costly.

215
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000
 And most of those churches, certainly St. James, was just barely hanging on.

216
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:18,000
 They had to receive donations from other churches in order to be able to make the renovations

217
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,000
 and salvage the church.

218
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,000
 I had wondered that.

219
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000
 I wondered if that had been a factor.

220
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000
 Well, and they wouldn't be able to benefit from any of the tax incentives either.

221
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,000
 That was my question.

222
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,000
 But did they not get donations?

223
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:43,000
 I thought I read in here that there was a donation from these developers.

224
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,000
 They did get a donation.

225
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:55,000
 Each of these churches did receive $10,000 from a community benefit agreement,

226
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:03,000
 but I don't know how that $10,000 is being used.

227
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:09,000
 So out of the five, three already have the designation.

228
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:16,000
 So right now, as I stated, I still need to figure out what the Pleasant Grove designation necessarily is.

229
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:22,000
 It could be just a narrative or it could actually be the designation of the property as a landmark property.

230
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,000
 So I will let you all know once I'm able to determine that.

231
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,000
 Once I can find some documentation to support that, I'll let you all know.

232
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:35,000
 In regards to the St. Emmanuel Baptist and St. James, these are just informational markers.

233
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,000
 So these aren't actual recorded Texas historic landmark markers.

234
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,000
 So these are just informational markers.

235
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000
 Yes.

236
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,000
 I think I wondered after reading that article in the Devin Rucker Chronicle about this,

237
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000
 is what would be the advantages to them?

238
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,000
 Frankly, I was hoping there would be one, but I did wonder about what sort of tax advantage they might gain.

239
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,000
 I don't know.

240
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,000
 So because they're a church, there's not a lot of tax advantages to it, unfortunately.

241
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,000
 I assume not.

242
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:18,000
 But I do know that the National Parks did just come out with a grant related to specifically black churches.

243
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
 It's very new.

244
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,000
 I don't have a ton of information on it.

245
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:30,000
 I'm happy to do additional research on that and send you all a memo of some sort.

246
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,000
 But that's the only thing I've heard of late that's come out.

247
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:45,000
 Besides that, it's more just the recognition from not only local, but having it at the state and national level.

248
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:53,000
 That's why a lot of people first pursue national, is because it really can be an economic driver.

249
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,000
 It's all about the recognition.

250
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,000
 Would it not also prevent them from having to be moved again?

251
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
 Yes.

252
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:13,000
 So at the local level, there would be that zoning, because it would be a zoning action that designates the property.

253
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:21,000
 There would be that demolition stay that you all would have to review it if there was going to be a demolition of any sort.

254
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,000
 It would be more tedious in trying to get that church to move in the future.

255
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
 That is correct.

256
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000
 Unless they wanted to move.

257
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,000
 Yes, unless they wanted to move.

258
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,000
 It's a development, because it's why I understand the 50 grand that was divided among the five churches was coming from a developer.

259
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000
 So there's some interest in that area, clearly.

260
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,000
 That's my concern.

261
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,000
 So at the local level, it would provide a zoning protection or a zoning action.

262
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,000
 However, not at the state or national.

263
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,000
 So I just wanted to...

264
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,000
 And that's why I wanted to point that out, because we had that.

265
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000
 Yes, no, thank you for doing that.

266
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:10,000
 My second question is, and you said that our commission here would have to go to them and speak to them about that.

267
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,000
 Are we to where we can talk to them about that?

268
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,000
 I'll hear from this person on the next piece.

269
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000
 That's the next piece.

270
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:27,000
 Tina Fergens, Deputy Director of Development Services.

271
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:34,000
 The whole point of the conversation, this agenda item, is whether or not the commission is interested in working with the churches

272
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:40,000
 and seeing whether or not there's any interest on their part to pursue the local designation.

273
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,000
 So to me, that type of conversation occurs here on this item.

274
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,000
 The next agenda item was just regarding surveying properties within the southeast end of the area.

275
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
 So to me, that's a little bit of a separate conversation.

276
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:58,000
 But yeah, I mean, if there's any additional discussion with the commission about whether or not you all are interested in having further conversations

277
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,000
 with the five churches to see if there's any interest on their part.

278
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:09,000
 You all, as ambassadors for our historic preservation program, have the ability to reach out to these property owners,

279
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,000
 have that conversation with them regarding what you believe the benefits would be for them,

280
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:19,000
 in addition to then what would be the regulatory aspect associated with it as well, the thing we'd have to work through.

281
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,000
 But that's why we're having this conversation tonight.

282
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:49,000
 So in talking about whether or not we want to talk to them, what summaries do we need to give them, and like this timeline for if they decided they want -- we talked to them, and they decided that they wanted to then -- what is our answer to them about how long of a time process is that?

283
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:58,000
 My thing is, if these developers have a different plan than what they're wanting --

284
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:05,000
 So keep in mind, the churches themselves have the ultimate say as to what happens to them, especially if they own their property, right?

285
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,000
 They own their buildings and their property. Ultimately, it's up to them, just like any property owner, what they choose to do with their property.

286
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:21,000
 So if a developer was to come calling and say, "Hey, we're interested in your property," they can tell them to, "No, we're not interested, and thank you for calling."

287
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,000
 Because ultimately, the churches of the property owner have the ultimate say as to what happens to their property, right?

288
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000
 Because they own it.

289
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:35,000
 To me, I think, to address the first part of your question, we could help the commission with maybe giving some talking points for you,

290
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:44,000
 especially regarding what are the benefits of local designation, and then also talk about the timeframe for pursuing that local designation.

291
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000
 What would all be entailed associated with that?

292
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:55,000
 What kind of documentation we might need to receive to be able to assist them through processing their local designation request?

293
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:01,000
 How that goes through the Historic Landmark Commission, and then how that proceeds to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council.

294
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:09,000
 We can help educate them on that aspect, right? But it's really helping them understand the benefits of pursuing that local designation.

295
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:17,000
 So we could help with some of the talking points for you all as you visit with members of each of the churches.

296
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:24,000
 So that way, it helps have a consistent message going out, but anything procedural-wise, then you're more than welcome to have them.

297
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,000
 You can always say, "Look, talk to Cameron. Cameron knows all the specifics and details."

298
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:38,000
 But because that's what she is here, it's to be a resource for the community as well. So she can help educate on that procedural side of things.

299
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:47,000
 Well, it sounds like, though, Cameron, from what you just said earlier is that the advantage to the churches is not from a local or even a state, but from the national level.

300
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:55,000
 You said the National Park Service, which is not a local thing and it's not a state thing, so that the only grant funding then is only available through national.

301
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:01,000
 So that's really what, if I were one of the church members, that's what I'd be most interested in, to be honest.

302
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:11,000
 Well, at the national level, like I stated, I still need to do additional research, so they still might be required to have a local designation or a state.

303
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,000
 So once I do a little bit more research on that, I can provide more detail.

304
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:26,000
 But yes, right now, in terms of funding, if they want to do maybe maintenance or additional work or restoration or something, I'm assuming that's what the grant is for,

305
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:32,000
 but I'm not going to speak at a turn because I'm not sure until I do additional research. So that is all I know of now.

306
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:42,000
 But at the local level, as I stated, it is a zoning action. They do own their property, but it does have that property already as a designation.

307
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:51,000
 So if they want to keep that property and stay in that building or in that area for the next hundred years, they have that zoning saying,

308
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:59,000
 "Hey, we are a historic church." And say if they wanted to, but they wanted to sell to another historic church, they would have that capability by having that.

309
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,000
 Does an eminent domain affect any of this? I mean, there is an eminent domain going on all over the place.

310
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:12,000
 So if you might, eminent domain is the legal proceeding, and that involves when governmental agencies are involved, right?

311
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:21,000
 So if the governmental agency was looking to purchase a property, then we just can't take someone's property. We have to provide compensation for our market value.

312
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:28,000
 It's when we're in disagreement on what that value is, then when it goes through the legal proceedings of eminent domain.

313
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:36,000
 And so that's something completely separate from what this is. This, I think, what we could do is as part of those talking points that Cameron provides,

314
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:42,000
 maybe we do a little more research into that federal grant that's become available to see if there are some unique qualifying aspects,

315
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:50,000
 particularly if local designation is, because then that can be part of that conversation that the commission has with the individual property owners.

316
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:59,000
 So if that gives them an opportunity to have an additional level of funding available to them, then it's part of that education process, right?

317
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,000
 Because they may not be aware of that funding source being available to them.

318
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:14,000
 And especially if it has the ability to help fund some significant improvements that the individual churches may be considering, then that's a potential significant benefit to them.

319
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:36,000
 Well, I'm wondering, so I'm sorry, if we could prepare maybe not more than two pages of what the designation would do for them, including the limitations if they got it.

320
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
 I'm happy to do that.

321
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:46,000
 Because they would have to know that. And if we could send that perhaps to the ministers in advance,

322
00:30:46,000 --> 00:31:01,000
 because if we just call them up and cold and say we want to come and talk to you about this, I'd like them to already know the background, what we're talking about.

323
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:12,000
 And my concern is not so much in the domain or anything like that, but when something happens and the church needs repairs,

324
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:19,000
 what are the limitations on the kind of repairs they can do once they get this designation?

325
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:35,000
 Because they may want to take something that is the cheapest, easiest route and that may not be suitable. And they need to understand that before they make a decision.

326
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:42,000
 I was going to say, I can definitely share that in the packet, but I do want to share that with you all now just so that you all understand.

327
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:53,000
 If it is a recorded Texas Historic Landmark or it is a local landmark, it would be required to go in front of you all if it is more than ordinary maintenance.

328
00:31:53,000 --> 00:32:08,000
 If it is them just fixing a light bulb or some of their lighting or changing a paint color or doing anything kind of of ordinary maintenance and upkeep, that would go directly to me for review.

329
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000
 If that's only on exterior, not interior, is that correct?

330
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:21,000
 Correct. Yes. So interior, I don't have any jurisdiction over it, nor does the HLC. So they can do anything on the interior in terms of maintenance or updates or repairs.

331
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:33,000
 If it's on the exterior as a local or record Texas Historic Landmark past that ordinary maintenance, it would have to go one in front of Historic Landmark Commission as well as myself for review.

332
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,000
 But it would also have to go in front of the Texas Historical Commission.

333
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:52,000
 So say if they want to do a new addition, if they want to add an additional room in the rear, they would be required to go through the Texas Historical Commission if they record Texas Historic Landmark as well as myself and Historic Landmark Commission.

334
00:32:52,000 --> 00:33:02,000
 If they were doing, if they only had a National Register Landmark designation, they would not be required to do any of that.

335
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:24,000
 So that's what people see as the perk of the National Register District. They can do whatever they want in terms of exterior, but with the knowledge of knowing if they do too many additions or changes to the exterior, that if it doesn't match that original architectural integrity, that they can be removed from the National Register.

336
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000
 Therefore, their plaque would be removed.

337
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:43,000
 So there is that kind of give and take. Could we include that in when he was proposing? Yes, I can definitely include all of this information, but I just wanted to share that with you all that also National Register does not have any demolition stays.

338
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:51,000
 So if someone wants to demo tomorrow, they can demo tomorrow. But at the state and the local level, they would not be able to demo tomorrow.

339
00:33:51,000 --> 00:34:04,000
 And Linda's comment kind of points up, this is a little different situation than what we've dealt with before. Because some of these, frankly, they're really, it's really not about the physical structure. It's about the more intangible community that's been around since Reconstruction in all of these places.

340
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:13,000
 And so, you know, I don't know. I've been thinking about this and I don't know exactly how to place out for us.

341
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:25,000
 But wouldn't, wouldn't having the local designation be trying to protect the structure from the community? Yeah. So I mean, that seems kind of counterintuitive.

342
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:52,000
 I see it as a great recognition, though, of the neighborhoods. Right. I would love to, I would like to see it landmark, you know, I can see the downside to living in an old house, right? I'm with you. And I think with having those historic markers there on whatever, you know, from when the church began and all that, whatever those are.

343
00:34:52,000 --> 00:35:08,000
 I think that we're doing an injustice to not bring it to them and say, here it is. Here's all the pros and cons. Let them decide what's best for them, what's not. We're bringing it to them on here's why.

344
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:28,000
 We think it's worth putting a historic marker here, whether it's local or state level. You already have this other one we want to add to it. Again, I think we bring it to them, let them decide. But my question with that is when you said that we need to go out and speak to them.

345
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:50,000
 And I'm okay with that. But I just want to know, is it possible that we can invite all of those those five at one time? Can we use a city building? If not, I'm sure one of them would probably allow us to use their building for that, where we can talk to them all at one time instead of having to do, I don't know if anyone has time to go individually.

346
00:35:50,000 --> 00:36:04,000
 We can definitely do that. That's not a problem. So like to send the letter that you talked about and then set a date for a public meeting, I guess, if you will.

347
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:21,000
 Yeah, it's probably be more like a town hall or some sort of group meeting. I was just saying, we can work through the legality aspects associated with that. If anything, we might have to do like a notice of possible quorum, especially if we think we may have a quorum of the Historic Landmark Commission.

348
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:36,000
 But yeah, we could, with your help, we can do a public meeting. We can post it in our building, if we wanted, since that's when the Commission normally meets. But we could invite folks to come and hear what you all have to say.

349
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:49,000
 And collectively, we could put together a presentation and have the handout available for folks and then just open it up to Q&A and see what kind of questions representatives from the various churches may have.

350
00:36:49,000 --> 00:37:03,000
 That's kind of what I'm thinking. I was thinking that if we prepared this information and provided it to the ministers at least at first, hopefully they would talk to whatever their governing board is within another church.

351
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:13,000
 And we could tell them that we would propose a meeting to talk about this further if they were interested at all.

352
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:35,000
 There may be absolutely no interest if they are fearful of the cost of this because that's a real problem because St. James would not still exist if they had not had significant help from two other churches in town.

353
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:43,000
 And so, I mean, you can't count on that kind of help coming every time.

354
00:37:43,000 --> 00:38:09,000
 I think in the two page packet, that would all be spelled out. So, literally all the pros and cons that I've already kind of discussed here, but it would be a comparison of local, state, now I've already kind of done that in general.

355
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:22,000
 I think we're not doing overlays anymore probably, but it almost would think, hey, would these five churches qualify for an overlay for the very thing that Lynnie is speaking about?

356
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,000
 Do you mean a conservation overlay?

357
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:43,000
 A conservation. I just wondered if that's a possibility, if we would even entertain that. And the reason being is for the very costing, the things that we hold standard on, oh, you have to do this, this, and this, that it may not be that strict for an overlay like that.

358
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,000
 I just don't know if that's an option or not or if the commission would even consider that.

359
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:58,000
 So, I will just be honest with you all, that's definitely something that I've brought up to the team that's working out specifically with the Southeast Denton neighborhood on the area plan.

360
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:07,000
 I don't know if it's been discussed specifically with the consultant or the community as of yet, but that is something that has been mentioned.

361
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:17,000
 So, I just wanted to let you know that that could be a possibility. There are less restrictions, but it does usually come with those general design standards of some sort.

362
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:27,000
 And it would be required to go through that COA process, but it's not as rigorous. It wouldn't have the state maybe tied to it, but that is an option.

363
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:41,000
 I'm not as worried as the COA process, especially when they can get an administrative COA. And I want them to know the difference of that, because that's not that cumbersome.

364
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:58,000
 One of the questions that may come up, is there a church or churches already have these, I guess, designations that they may decide they want to talk to about what's been their experience, what have been the pros and the cons, what?

365
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,000
 That has only been informational, really, about destruction.

366
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:15,000
 Right, so we do not have any. So, before I discovered this plaque, mind you, there are no other designated churches within them.

367
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,000
 Because one of the members, I was talking to somebody, one of the members at First Christian Church thought they had a historical...

368
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,000
 They have a historical information sign.

369
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,000
 Like, from the city?

370
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000
 No, from the state.

371
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,000
 So, they have the state of Texas historical marker.

372
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:36,000
 And there are some that are in historic districts that we've had to do COAs on.

373
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
 There are churches that they don't have historic designations.

374
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,000
 Correct, correct.

375
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:50,000
 So, we don't have any churches that have individual landmark designations connected to them.

376
00:40:50,000 --> 00:41:03,000
 As I stated, we do have this plaque. I need to do further information to see if it was just a narrative that was done, or if it's actual designation, as I have not been able to find any ordinance related to it.

377
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,000
 But I will let you all know once I'm able to determine that.

378
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,000
 That is the only plaque that I've been able to find, though, related to one of our local churches.

379
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:19,000
 The rest are that state of Texas informational marker or historic marker.

380
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,000
 Well, the most recent one, this one, the...

381
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,000
 Yes, so we have this.

382
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,000
 One of them has only been recently built. It doesn't qualify for the 50 years.

383
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,000
 This one, the Mount Pilgrim Church, doesn't qualify for that.

384
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000
 The structure would not know. That's correct.

385
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:44,000
 So, I don't know. I didn't have a chance to go through all of the criteria. So, they still qualify for a historic landmark?

386
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,000
 So, that's something we would have to run through.

387
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,000
 We should have done that before we talked to them, though, right?

388
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,000
 Right. Well, I would say there should be an idea of what the commission is hoping they will do,

389
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,000
 but this is also something that the community themselves should be reviewing and saying,

390
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,000
 "Hey, I really do feel like we qualify for this," or, "I don't think we qualify for this."

391
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:10,000
 This is not necessarily something that the commission or staff should be deciding for the community or those congregations.

392
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
 The congregation should be deciding that, and we can help them through that process.

393
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,000
 I mean, I'm feeling it, though. I think it's actually it.

394
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,000
 We haven't even looked at it at all.

395
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,000
 So, I didn't read this since I was all the way together.

396
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,000
 Exactly.

397
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,000
 So, there are options.

398
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,000
 There are. There are.

399
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:36,000
 Okay. So, then to summarize, then, what occurred is, and Marcella or Mia can type notes, or Lacy, so.

400
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:43,000
 But to summarize, then we talk about no more than a two-page handout that has kind of some FAQs or talking points

401
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,000
 that we're able to assist the commission with.

402
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,000
 We also discussed hosting a town hall meeting, if there's any interest from any of the congregations

403
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,000
 that might be interested in learning more about the designation process

404
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,000
 and what's all entailed associated with it, the pros and cons associated with it.

405
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,000
 And then, was there a third item?

406
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,000
 I think it was just those two.

407
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,000
 Oh, and I'm going to do additional grant research.

408
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,000
 Yes, additional grant research. That was the other item.

409
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,000
 We've talked a lot. We've talked a lot.

410
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,000
 Okay. So, we'll do that additional grant research.

411
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,000
 I was thinking also part of that, you know, if there are any quick available resources,

412
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,000
 maybe from the state where the churches might be able to benefit, we can include that as well.

413
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:28,000
 So, just in the event that there are some financial resources that the churches may be eligible to receiving,

414
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,000
 if they find some sort of designation, so.

415
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,000
 Yes.

416
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,000
 Okay.

417
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,000
 Next question. How soon can we get it all done?

418
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,000
 I'm looking at everybody here.

419
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,000
 How can we get it? How soon can we get this all done?

420
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:48,000
 I don't, I think we have to go really slowly because they have, you saw this.

421
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:59,000
 They, the city is currently proposing to do a downtown plan that will go all the way.

422
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:12,000
 I think, I think it goes down Carroll Boulevard, goes to whatever that lumpy street is that comes through there.

423
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,000
 The eagle drive.

424
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,000
 Oh, yes, yes.

425
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
 It is a very lumpy street.

426
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,000
 It is a very lumpy street.

427
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,000
 Always.

428
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,000
 But she said lumpy.

429
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,000
 Lumpy, lumpy.

430
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,000
 And it takes up part of southeast, I don't know exactly where their lines run there.

431
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,000
 But I know it does take in a part of southeast end.

432
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:39,000
 And that's to be the envision, I think, on overlay district.

433
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:49,000
 So we're getting a little off posting, but happy to bring back an item at your next meeting where we can talk about some of our various area planning efforts that we have going on.

434
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,000
 Because downtown is going to be one of them.

435
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:57,000
 And I know there was an agenda item recently on council's agenda that I think has also caused some confusion with respect to potential expansion.

436
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,000
 Tourist district boundaries.

437
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,000
 So that's not really into this item discussion.

438
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,000
 So I want to caution us not getting off posting.

439
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,000
 But we can always bring back at your next meeting or add to the matrix, if you will.

440
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:16,000
 We can talk more about that downtown area plan and that downtown tourist district and also the southeast end area plan.

441
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:29,000
 They will go like this in southeast end, the southeast end plan they want.

442
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,000
 And then the overlay is a downtown plan.

443
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,000
 There are two different things, Lainey.

444
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,000
 I know there are two different things, but I know they go over each other.

445
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:49,000
 And that's why, again, to make sure we don't get off posting, so it is let us bring that back because I think there's some confusion out in the community.

446
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:57,000
 But let us bring that back and happy to have a conversation with the HLC so you all understand what are some of the other work that we're doing.

447
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:02,000
 Some of what our economic development team had presented to council.

448
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,000
 I think it was at their previous two meetings ago.

449
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:10,000
 But happy to bring that back so we can have, so we're posted for that conversation.

450
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,000
 We can let you know all the different pieces that are happening right now.

451
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:26,000
 I don't, I think, from what I've heard tonight, I think everyone is in agreement for us to move forward with the historic designation to meeting the churches.

452
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:35,000
 If we can get that information, anyone else have any, did I get that wrong, anyone have any thoughts about it or?

453
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:46,000
 I would just love more information, a little bit more about the church.

454
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,000
 Yes, absolutely.

455
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:54,000
 I was about to say in regards to the timeline, I'm happy to bring that back in July and have it as a work session.

456
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,000
 You all get to see my two page packet that I've put together with all the information, the pros and cons.

457
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:05,000
 We can confirm that is everything that we want on there or we can remove or add things.

458
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:12,000
 So we can have that discussion and I can send it out, you know, really the next day via letter.

459
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,000
 Does that sound good?

460
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:20,000
 Sounds good.

461
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:32,000
 Okay, item B, HFC 23-002A, discuss and determine the opportunity for a future historic resource survey of the Southeastern neighborhood.

462
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,000
 Okay, so I do not have a presentation.

463
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
 This is more of a discussion.

464
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:49,000
 If you all read the AIS packet, staff is recommending that a historic resources survey not be conducted at this time due to the fact that we are undergoing the Southeastern area plan right now.

465
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:56,000
 And there has not been any direction specifically from the community expressing interest that we know as of yet.

466
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,000
 There are still different events as we see from here.

467
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:05,000
 There are still other listening sessions that are happening, different conversations that are in motion.

468
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:11,000
 So I would recommend that we table it at this time and bring it back at a later date if there is interest from the community.

469
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
 But that is staff's recommendation.

470
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:20,000
 Okay, anyone have any questions on that?

471
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,000
 We're going to move to item C. Thank you, Cameron.

472
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:38,000
 HLC 23-0025, receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties.

473
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,000
 Anyone have anything they would like to bring?

474
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,000
 I've already done mine, so.

475
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,000
 Where are we on that one? Are we going to talk about that one next?

476
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:54,000
 No, so that's basically I haven't been able to reach them because they get there at 4.30 in the morning.

477
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,000
 Yes, they do. And then they're gone.

478
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,000
 And I know they close over the July break. That's all I know is they take a week or two off.

479
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:17,000
 Okay, so, but I think since we're putting together this packet, that might be how I can reach out to them saying, hey, I know Mary, Commissioner Anderson, has reached out to you and spoken to you briefly about designating your property.

480
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:27,000
 You know, here, you know, this might be a great form that we put together specifically for Southeast, but that can be used for other properties that we have interest in designating.

481
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:32,000
 But as of now, I've not been able to reach them.

482
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,000
 I know.

483
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,000
 Actually, it's, you know, a little bit later in the morning is actually pretty easy to catch them.

484
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:46,000
 And before, between like 10 and about 11 or so, there's like a lull in their day, you know.

485
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,000
 Maybe I'll go get some baked goods for the department and take a little snack.

486
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,000
 Well, I mean, I'd better go at like 5.30 in the morning and get Erica. He's kind of busy at that time.

487
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,000
 Okay.

488
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,000
 He's much more receptive. Please, please go for Eric.

489
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,000
 Okay, noted.

490
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,000
 All right, thank you for that.

491
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,000
 Anyone else on this, on item C?

492
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:19,000
 Well, let's move to item D, HLC 23-2024, hold the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission project mix.

493
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:25,000
 So we've had this discussion as of now.

494
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:33,000
 We do have these three up here still, the quantifying the economic impact of preserving historic properties,

495
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,000
 the benefits, and then presentation of preliminary guidelines.

496
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:43,000
 In addition, we have these items for landmark consideration,

497
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:49,000
 which are these two walking toward historic districts and landmarks to review any current property maintenance that's needed,

498
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,000
 or discussion of potential updates to the demolition code.

499
00:50:52,000 --> 00:51:01,000
 We are still seeing a lot of demolitions currently in the city of historic structures that maybe not are located in a historic district.

500
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,000
 So that is still up for consideration.

501
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:09,000
 I did talk to Legal, and they are still working on the TWU and UNT designation research,

502
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,000
 but you should be receiving that within the next month.

503
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,000
 And then we have these additional work plan goals.

504
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:26,000
 Is there anything additionally that you all want to add or that you really want to put at the forefront of the discussions coming up in the future?

505
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:37,000
 We will be obviously adding to the request is to have that discussion of the two-page packet that will be sent out to the churches.

506
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,000
 But is there anything else?

507
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:48,000
 At some point, I would love an update of that Hickory garage issue.

508
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,000
 I would love the economic impact.

509
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:57,000
 I think that would be a real mover for city council and city in general if we demonstrate that impact.

510
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,000
 And also how preserving impacts other cities.

511
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:12,000
 I think that like Plano and Great Vine and McKinney has been a real mover in places.

512
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:21,000
 Commissioner McAdams, would you like for us to add a presentation on the area plan work that we are doing to the matrix?

513
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,000
 I suppose that would be a good idea.

514
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,000
 Extra information is always good.

515
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,000
 Ignorance is never the answer.

516
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:40,000
 I was going to say because we have two area plans that are currently underway and a third one that is going to be getting underway.

517
00:52:40,000 --> 00:53:00,000
 Northeast Denton, I know has the Hartley Field and historic assets there and then we can also discuss the Southeast Denton plan that is underway and then also the downtown area plan update that will be kicking off here hopefully next month.

518
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:13,000
 When did you say you would have that two page document ready?

519
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:32,000
 The ministerial lines, which most of those churches are for, they are having a conference at the St. Andrew Church of God in Christ June 20-22 so I would be willing to drop off hard copies there if it is going to be ready by then.

520
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,000
 If not, then don't worry about it.

521
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,000
 That is too soon.

522
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,000
 That is next week.

523
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,000
 Is it next week?

524
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,000
 This is the 12th so eight days from now.

525
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,000
 I don't think that will work.

526
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,000
 The camera works hard but I think that is kind of.

527
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,000
 She is going to be up at 4.30.

528
00:53:47,000 --> 00:54:04,000
 To that point though, Commissioner Berry, if you are going to be in attendance, you could at least let them know that we are working on pulling some information together and that the Historic Landmarks Commission is going to be leading some conversation about potential designations related to the churches.

529
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:19,000
 So at least you can get it on their radar and then that way we can come back in July with the information for the commission to make sure we pull together everything that you all are interested in receiving so we can make sure we have a good, productive conversation when we do the town hall.

530
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:28,000
 I would suggest that when we send it out to the five churches because they need it in their hands to think about it before they talk to us.

531
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:34,000
 But also send the group.

532
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,000
 Yes, okay.

533
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,000
 I can do that.

534
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,000
 Ms. Colette?

535
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,000
 Yes.

536
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,000
 Okay.

537
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,000
 I can do that.

538
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,000
 Would they mean this something?

539
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:53,000
 Well, I don't want to offend them by ignoring them on anything.

540
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:58,000
 Yes, in a very bad way.

541
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,000
 All right.

542
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:08,000
 Anyone else have anything else on the project matrix?

543
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,000
 All right.

544
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,000
 There is nothing further.

545
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,000
 We will find this adjourned.

546
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,000
 Any motion?

547
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,000
 No.

548
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,000
 I don't believe I need any.

549
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,000
 No.

550
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,000
 No.

551
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:18,000
 No.

552
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:18,840
 - I didn't.

553
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:19,660
 (laughing)