WEBVTT

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 >> Good afternoon and welcome to the city of Denton's planning and zoning commission

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 meeting for Wednesday, April 12, 2023.

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 This is our work session and with a quorum present I will call us to order at 5.01 p.m.

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 First item on our work session agenda is citizen comment for consent agenda items.

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 Is there anyone wishing to speak on consent agenda?

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 Seeing none.

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 Let's move on to the clarification on tonight's agenda.

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 Let's work on through the minutes from the 29th.

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 Any questions on that?

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 Any questions on consent?

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 Four A has been withdrawn by the applicant so we will take no action on that.

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 Four B, commissioner Cole, I know you're going to recuse on that, correct?

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 Okay.

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 Are there any questions on that?

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 Want to go ahead and give a quick -- how are you, Ashley?

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 Good.

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 >> Ashley, assistant planner.

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 This is a final platform industrial use on approximately 37 acres at the intersection

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 of Mosh Branch and Jim Crystal.

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 We are currently recommending denial but we have no objection to the requested extension

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 until May 10th.

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 >> Okay.

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 May 10th.

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 Okay.

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 Questions for Ashley?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you very much.

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 Okay, commissioner Cole.

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 All right.

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 That will move us then to public hearings.

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 We have three of them on tonight's agenda.

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 Five A belongs to Angie -- you are here, Angie.

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 Hi.

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 Come on up.

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 Thank you.

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 >> Hey.

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 Good evening, everyone.

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 Angie Manglaris, senior planner.

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 And if you'll bear with me one moment.

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 Okay.

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 A bit of background on this case, this is PD 210007.

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 It is a plan development request that's going from suburban corridor to plan development

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 with a mixed use -- with a base zoning of neighborhood mixed use.

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 The intent of the plan development is to facilitate the development of a multifamily use consisting

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 of both horizontal multifamily and your traditional mid-rise apartment style complex.

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 It is consistent with the 2040 comprehensive plan.

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 It has a future land use designation of community mixed use which applies to key corridors in

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 the city that serve as transitional areas between residential and commercial areas.

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 It is consistent with our housing and population projections and staff is recommending approval

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 of this request this evening.

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 In addition to that summary, I wanted to follow up from our meeting that we had back on March

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 15th.

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 If you all recall, we did review this case and it was postponed to the 29th and then

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 again until this evening.

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 In that time, there were several questions that came up from the commission that staff

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 was directed to look more into and I wanted to give you a little bit of overview on some

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 of the responses to those questions and also let you know that the applicant will have

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 a representative of their traffic engineer who prepared the TIA at the meeting this evening

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 should you have additional questions of them.

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 But the questions that were asked at the 15th meeting that kind of wanted to summarize for

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 you all tonight was one question that was asked was were the nearby Denton ISD facilities

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 taken into consideration with the preparation of this TIA as you all know it was prepared

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 in the summer of 2021.

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 Summer is not typically a time that would account for school traffic which is why you

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 all asked that question.

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 So the traffic counts were adjusted for the school year traffic for the morning trips.

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 The TIA made an adjustment factor of 45% which essentially means that they added 45% of what

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 they counted on top of the AM peak traffic to accommodate for those DISD facilities.

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 I do want to point out that the same was not done for the PM trips because typically when

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 school is let out versus when rush hour is for office facilities, they didn't overlap

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 so much as in the morning when you would expect parents to be both dropping off their children

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 and going to their respective workplaces.

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 Angie, if I could ask you, so PM I assume is like 5 PM?

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 Yes.

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 Can I go to the next one if that's okay?

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 I just wanted to make sure I figured it was better to do a call and response type thing.

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 The next question was were recently approved developments in the region included in the

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 TIA?

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 So there's a few developments that have been approved in past years that are north of the

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 site including Stark Farms, Stewart Ridge, and Agave Ranch.

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 Stark Farm and Stewart Ridge were included in the TIA.

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 They accommodated for, they projected an anticipated build out of 2024 for Stark Farms and 2026

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 for Stewart Ridge.

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 And so the full build out for each site with a projected horizon of 2028 was incorporated

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 into this TIA.

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 Agave Ranch was not included in the factor for the TIA.

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 You, staff anticipated using the ITE's eighth generation manual that a development of Agave

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 Ranch's size you could predict an additional approximately 2400 trips per day.

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 So as part of this TIA Stark Farms and Stewart Ridge both of their projected build out were

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 included Agave Ranch is not included in that TIA.

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 COVID was also brought up as far as was that accounted for in the TIA.

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 Again this was done in the summer of 2021 where working remote was possibly a little

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 bit more predominant than we would expect today.

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 The TIA doesn't mention specifically any adjustments that were made for COVID-19.

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 The applicant does look at background traffic and projected traffic and uses the historical

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 traffic patterns over the last 10 years and comes up with an average growth rate of 1.17.

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 The applicant rounded up and used a 2% growth rate for the future for the TIA but the answer

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 is no.

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 COVID specifically was not adjusted for but a more conservative growth rate was predicted

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 than what the past 10 years had shown.

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 And then finally one of the questions that came up in the meeting was if the development

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 were to develop entirely as commercial would we expect to see a higher trip count or lower

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 trip count than if it were to be developed as proposed which would be the 20 acres developing

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 as multifamily development.

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 So using the eighth generation of the ITE we find average trip counts for different

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 uses and I looked at two different sites in the city to kind of give us a base comparison

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 rate.

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 One of them is the southeast corner of Sherman and Loop 288.

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 So while this is not exactly the same size, this is approximately 8.72 acres, it is just

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 on the south side of Loop 288 and kind of shows the development pattern that is in that

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 area today.

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 So with some convenience stores and gas pumps, restaurant with drive through, one restaurant

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 with drive through that is currently in review, the self-storage institute and the financial

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 institution also currently in review, you would anticipate approximately 5,600 traffic

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 trips to be generated with the development of that 8.7 acre site.

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 And then looked for a little bit larger of a site because this is a 20 acre site and

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 the southeast corner of Bonnie Bray and University felt like was a good example to show kind

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 of a comparison of rates.

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 This has a variety of commercial uses, all of which would be allowed in the SC zoning

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 district including restaurants with drive through, medical offices, dental offices, small

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 home improvement store, a grocery store which was Aldi, I believe that was mentioned, and

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 additional convenience stores, you would anticipate with these mix of uses on approximately 17.5

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 acres, we would have roughly 11,500 trips generated from a site of that size developing

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 in that matter.

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 Now this was used, again we used the eighth edition of the ITE manual to generate these

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 and got the traffic counts based on those proposed uses.

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 So it's an example of what could be anticipated if the site were to develop as commercial

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 entirely.

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 And then I did want to point out a few concerns were raised during the public hearing regarding

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 driveway spacing.

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 So the driveway spacing requirements for the city are met, the plan is compliant with that.

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 However, for text that approval there would be a variance required for those locations

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 to be approved as shown.

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 The italicized text which didn't show up quite as well as I had hoped, but allows, we added

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 additional language recognizing that a variance to text that is still needed and that those

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 locations may need minor modifications.

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 So the PD development standards have been amended to reflect that there may be a shift

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 in driveway location required as part of the text that approval process and that those

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 minor changes could be approved administratively by city staff rather than having to go back

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 through the entire public hearing process.

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 Now if there's a major change that's made that requires some sort of site design reconfiguration,

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 it probably wouldn't fall under the category of minor anymore and it would have to come

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 back to you on city council for ultimate approval.

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 So that was my brief summary of the case as a brief reminder of what we're discussing.

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 We're going from SC to plan development with the base zoning of MN to allow for the development

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 of multifamily uses on approximately 20 acres.

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 And then just some backgrounds on the requested information from PNZ from the last meeting

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 and that's all I have for you at this time.

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 >> Thanks Angie.

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 Questions?

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 Commissioner Cole.

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 >> Thank you Chair.

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 Thanks Angie.

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 So Northwest Denton has now entered the process into having a small area plan.

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 Would this area be in the aegis of that small area plan?

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 >> This area is at one of the most southern point of that area plan at the intersection

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 of 288 and FM428.

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 Yes it is within the boundaries of that study area.

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 So my concern is now that this small area plan is in the process, I'm counting the opinion

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 that maybe we need to respect that process and wait to see what comes out of the small

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 area plan.

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 I mean this is in it.

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 You know, I'm just struggling with this because I want to respect the process and this small

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 area plan is not only city generated but it's resident generated.

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 And I understand time is money to these people, these developers, I totally get that.

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 But I'm kind of of the mind that maybe we need to let this process play out to see what

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 comes out of it, if anything comes out of it.

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 >> Yes and we recognize that.

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 So it is and it doesn't surprise me that you're expressing that opinion.

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 So that is an option for the commission to consider as you deliberate this case as to

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 whether or not, you know, if you find that the existing request may not be appropriate

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 for this site and are more interested in allowing that area plan process to play out, I mean

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 that is your prerogative and you can voice that and have that reflected in your actions

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 this evening.

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 You know, when we take on these area plans, we know the timeline associated with them,

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 you know, it's roughly a 10 month process.

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 So we anticipate from time to time that we could have some overlap where we've got cases

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 that are filed while we are working on these efforts.

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 So it's -- we've been very transparent with the applicant, especially once city council

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 identified the areas that they wanted to focus on for the area plan.

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 So we tried to make sure that we're very transparent in communicating that message out.

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 You know, obviously this project when they filed it, it started well before that effort.

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 But we have kept them apprised of that through this project.

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 Yeah, the timing on that is really -- it's really rough for sure because that's an excellent

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 point and certainly a concern.

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 Other questions for Angie at this point?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Thanks for bringing the information regarding the TIA.

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 That definitely cleared up some of our questions from last week.

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 Thank you very much.

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 Okay, let's go ahead and move on to Item B of our public hearings.

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 Mia is making the way up for that.

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 That is our reconsideration item.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Mia Hines, Associate Planner.

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 Yes, this item is a request to rezone just under 13 acres from PDMN to PDSC.

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 That's an overlay PD.

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 The request itself would permit certain commercial uses appropriate for the context.

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 It would require compliance with the current EDC and require additional context-sensitive

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 site design considerations, keeping in mind sort of the adjacency to Teasley as well as

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 the adjacency to the residential properties to the west and the multifamily property to

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 the west.

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 Just a brief recap, if you followed along, this has been on your agenda a few times.

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 The P&Z initially heard this item on February 15th and recommended denial, and then on March

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 1st the item was -- this body voted to reconsider it.

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 It did come back again at the last meeting on March 29th and was continued by this body

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 mainly as the applicant requested it be continued because one of the reasons for it to be reconsidered

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 was for the full body to hear that case at that time, and we did not have a full body

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 that evening.

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 So staff is recommending approval of the request.

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 I do have a full presentation that I can go through during the regular session.

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 I did want to go ahead and skip ahead to the recommendation slide.

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 Within the PD regulations that were initially sent to you, the wording for -- at the bottom

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 of Section 2 of those PD regulations was a bit different.

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 This is given -- it's giving the same -- or serving the same purpose as what was initially

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 sent to you but sort of clarifies what was intended by that, and that is that the applicant

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 has agreed to limit the number of drive-through facilities permitted on this site to three

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 as long as they can be built on either Track 1 or Track 2 within the site, and so there

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 is a bit of a different language than what was initially sent to you, and that was -- that

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 markup and that clean version should have been sent to you this afternoon.

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 So with that, I will stand for any questions or comments that you have.

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 >> Questions from you?

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 >> Commissioner VilleRail.

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 >> Quick question for you, Chair.

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 Do you know if Commissioner Pruitt is planning on attending today?

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 >> Yes.

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 Commissioner Pruitt is running late, but he will be in attendance.

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 >> Gotcha.

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 Thank you.

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 >> Thank you.

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 Commissioner Smith.

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 >> Mia, on the staff recommendations there, it's going to be tied directly into the PD,

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 so there's not -- because of the base zoning, by right, the drive-through facilities are

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 allowed, but because of the PD, it's going to be built into there that it has the specifications

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 and stipulations within there?

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 >> Correct.

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 Yes, sir.

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 >> Okay.

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 I just -- when it gets to really minute, small stuff like this, it gets -- I always feel

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 like it gets hairy, and it gets a little bit worrisome on five, 10, 15 years from now,

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 how do we run into something like this when someone wants to take out a building that

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 is there and replace it with a facility that's going to have a drive-through, but it runs

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 into that issue?

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 So just, Grace, was there any consideration from city staff on that, kind of looking at

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 this kind of being a really -- it's kind of -- it feels like almost a really small footnote

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 into the development itself.

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 Does that make sense?

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 >> So we would make sure it's very clear in the PD ordinance with this limitation being

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 provided.

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 And as, you know, say five years from now, somebody wants to modify a building that was

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 originally not constructed for drive-through purposes, but they want to add the drive-through,

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 we have checks and balances put in place that would help protect the scenario and bring

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 to the permitting process, but even in all likelihood, it's going to require modifications

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 being made to the site.

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 So they would be submitting zoning compliance plans to us, and as part of our review of

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 the zoning, we would be pulling the plan development district ordinance, looking at the requirements

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 in there, do an assessment of how many drive-throughs are currently within the district existing

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 at that time to see whether or not it would trigger a specific use permit or if it's still

00:18:12.260 --> 00:18:13.260
 one of the three.

00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:14.260
 >> Cool.

00:18:14.260 --> 00:18:16.640
 Great question.

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:21.320
 >> Anybody else?

00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:28.480
 Mia, with this change, do you know if the neighborhood was -- or was there another meeting

00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:29.480
 held at all?

00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:30.480
 >> So this change --

00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.920
 >> Because this is a little bit different than when it was heard the first time or when

00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.560
 they had their meetings originally.

00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.560
 >> Yeah.

00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:43.360
 The change was sort of an added -- after the initial meeting and the feedback from P&Z,

00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:47.840
 the neighborhood, when they responded, there wasn't a restriction on drive-through uses

00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.840
 at all.

00:18:48.840 --> 00:18:57.000
 So this would actually be an additional restriction to the PD that I haven't received any further

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.520
 feedback from the neighborhood regarding the change.

00:18:59.520 --> 00:19:00.520
 >> Okay.

00:19:00.520 --> 00:19:01.520
 Okay.

00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:08.680
 Then the overall major concern about the whole thing is that light that is not there.

00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:10.200
 Is that part of your presentation tonight?

00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.720
 Are we going to discuss a little bit about that?

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:18.280
 >> So I can answer -- we do have our transportation planner here to answer any TIA-related questions,

00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:23.940
 but I will say that we do estimate that -- or we -- the TIA will be required.

00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:28.560
 We anticipate some improvements might need to be made, but we will not know for sure

00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:33.720
 until that TIA is submitted and reviewed for the city.

00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:34.720
 >> Okay.

00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:35.720
 Understood.

00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:38.400
 Any other questions at the moment?

00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:39.400
 Okay.

00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:41.200
 Look forward to hearing it tonight.

00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.200
 Thank you.

00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:46.320
 That will take us to our public hearing item C for this evening.

00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:48.320
 Julie is making her way up.

00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:49.320
 Hello.

00:19:49.320 --> 00:19:51.120
 >> Good evening.

00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:56.600
 Let me pull up my presentation.

00:19:56.600 --> 00:19:58.000
 All right.

00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000
 Julie Wyatt.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.880
 And this is the 230004 Camelot.

00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.080
 This is a little different.

00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:09.280
 We don't do these quite as often as we see other rezoning cases, but this is a city-initiated

00:20:09.280 --> 00:20:14.680
 rezoning proposal from R3 district to R6 district.

00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:20.880
 The subject property is located at the intersection of Hercules and Stewart, kind of situated

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.840
 to the north side of town.

00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:27.120
 A little bit of history before -- I won't go into all of the details, but just a little

00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:28.120
 bit of history.

00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:34.080
 The property was plotted in 1979 with 20 residential lots developed with fourplexes.

00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:36.840
 I think in my staff report I also talked about triplexes.

00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:38.760
 I think it's mostly fourplexes.

00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:40.840
 We don't know exactly.

00:20:40.840 --> 00:20:45.400
 And a couple of single-family homes on that Camelot Street.

00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:51.760
 As you're aware, we updated our development regulations in 2002 and then in 2019 with

00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:57.840
 that associated rezoning, which essentially created a nonconformity for most of the lots

00:20:57.840 --> 00:20:59.320
 on this street.

00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:03.640
 All those fourplexes are now nonconforming uses.

00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:09.360
 This was brought to our attention late last year by a property owner, one of the property

00:21:09.360 --> 00:21:13.000
 owners of the single-family dwellings who would like to convert it to a duplex.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.640
 And we said, that use is not permitted.

00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:21.400
 And so we looked a little deeper and realized that rezoning in 2002 and then the transition

00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.680
 in 2019 had created this nonconforming situation.

00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:31.720
 So the purpose of the rezoning is just to get those nonconforming uses conforming.

00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:36.540
 They are existing fourplexes that people are living in, provide certainty for those property

00:21:36.540 --> 00:21:41.120
 owners if they want to make investments, also those residents who are living there.

00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:49.480
 Denton 2040 comprehensive plan designates the area as low residential, doesn't quite

00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:55.240
 fit within that low residential designation, but it does meet our overall goals of our

00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.640
 comprehensive plan, the things like infill housing and maintaining our neighborhoods

00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.480
 and providing that housing choice.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:08.360
 So we are recommending approval of the city initiated rezoning to that R6 district.

00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:10.840
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:17.640
 And I've got a full presentation if you'd like to see it or wait till the regular session.

00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.360
 - Questions for Julie on this?

00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:20.360
 Okay.

00:22:20.360 --> 00:22:25.320
 Yeah, and we'll go over all the responses and whatnot with your presentation, I assume.

00:22:25.320 --> 00:22:26.320
 - Yes, ma'am.

00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:27.320
 - Okay.

00:22:27.320 --> 00:22:28.320
 - All right.

00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:29.320
 - Thank you very much.

00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:32.840
 And that will move us to our work session reports then for this evening.

00:22:32.840 --> 00:22:37.320
 First one is 3A, receive a report, hold a discussion regarding regulations related to

00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:38.320
 nonconformities.

00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:39.320
 Speaking of.

00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:41.000
 - I'll just stay here.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.000
 All right.

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.000
 It's a surprise boot camp.

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.160
 So this is about nonconformities.

00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:53.080
 I know it's not the most exciting topic, but we'll try to make it as lively as possible.

00:22:53.080 --> 00:22:57.240
 So our nonconforming regulations are in our Denton Development Code and it is section

00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.240
 1.5.

00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.760
 That first chapter.

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:07.880
 So generally a nonconformity is something that was legally established under prior regulations,

00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:15.120
 but no longer meets current regulations or development standards.

00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:18.960
 Standards allow for the nonconformities to remain.

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:25.400
 So if you own a property and it's not conforming right now, it can stay as it is.

00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:32.680
 But what we want to make sure is that we're not investing more in those properties.

00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:39.600
 We want to discourage that further investment to make sure that we can be more in line with

00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:44.240
 our current regulations, our current desire for neighborhoods.

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:49.760
 So while we want people to maintain their properties, we want them to know that a tremendous

00:23:49.760 --> 00:23:54.640
 amount of investment would not be something that the Denton Development Code would allow.

00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:01.280
 There is one caveat to our nonconforming regulations and that is for single family duplex and town

00:24:01.280 --> 00:24:03.040
 home dwellings.

00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:10.640
 There was a consideration discussed in DCRC when we were adopting or crafting our 2019

00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:16.160
 code and that is we didn't want to make any of those land uses, the single family duplex

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.700
 and town home dwellings nonconforming.

00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:20.960
 And so there is a carve out for those.

00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:25.920
 And that any of them, any of those uses that were legal at the time of the adoption of

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.940
 the 2019 DDC remain legal and not nonconforming.

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.320
 So I've got an example on your screen.

00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:37.760
 It's a lovely little street that has duplexes that are no longer permitted under that existing

00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:41.120
 R3 or the current R3 zoning.

00:24:41.120 --> 00:24:47.060
 And so technically those would be without that carve out would be nonconforming.

00:24:47.060 --> 00:24:52.840
 But with that, those are lawful structures.

00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:56.000
 So as I mentioned, nonconformity can continue.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.360
 It can continue to be used and occupied, but there are limitations.

00:24:59.360 --> 00:25:02.520
 Of course, we want people to maintain their properties.

00:25:02.520 --> 00:25:05.200
 So those repairs are permitted.

00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:09.020
 But that degree of nonconformity cannot be increased.

00:25:09.020 --> 00:25:13.020
 So you can repair some physical damage or deterioration.

00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:14.420
 You can restripe parking.

00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:17.860
 You can replace landscaping.

00:25:17.860 --> 00:25:18.860
 You can paint.

00:25:18.860 --> 00:25:20.260
 You can do those sorts of things.

00:25:20.260 --> 00:25:26.880
 But you can't increase that nonconformity, and we'll go over that a little more specifically.

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.820
 If that nonconforming use or structure is discontinued for a year or more, all of those

00:25:33.820 --> 00:25:36.000
 nonconforming rights cease.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:41.680
 So then you would have to come in conformance with the current regulations.

00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:43.800
 And then we also have a provision in the code.

00:25:43.800 --> 00:25:47.400
 I'm not sure if it's ever actually been used.

00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:52.120
 But we can amortize nonconforming uses or structures.

00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:58.680
 And that is that the ZBA is responsible for setting that plan.

00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.600
 So let's talk about types of nonconformities.

00:26:00.600 --> 00:26:03.520
 We actually have three types of nonconformities.

00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:07.460
 The first one we're going to go over is nonconforming use.

00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:09.240
 So it kind of what it says it is.

00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:15.640
 It is any use of land established legally, but that is no longer permitted.

00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:21.600
 Nonconforming uses may not be expanded onto another structure on the site.

00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:28.520
 No structural changes to an existing building are permitted.

00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:30.600
 And you can't add any more dwelling units.

00:26:30.600 --> 00:26:36.320
 So if you have a nonconforming use and you have a big building, you could potentially

00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:40.800
 expand that use within the confines of that building, but you cannot increase the size

00:26:40.800 --> 00:26:41.800
 of that building.

00:26:41.800 --> 00:26:46.000
 You cannot then jump over to another building, nor can you make structural changes to that

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:51.560
 building to accommodate an expansion of that nonconforming use.

00:26:51.560 --> 00:26:56.800
 A nonconforming use could be changed to another nonconforming use if a property owner can

00:26:56.800 --> 00:27:02.200
 prove that that new use is not more intensive than the existing use.

00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.720
 But it can't be converted back.

00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.480
 So you can't skip back and forth.

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:12.960
 A really good example of a nonconforming use within the city of Denton is we have a manufacturing

00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.600
 use that was established prior to 2002.

00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:22.320
 At that time, the zoning was LI, and so the use was permitted.

00:27:22.320 --> 00:27:30.060
 In 2002, that zoning changed to downtown commercial general, and that use was no longer permitted.

00:27:30.060 --> 00:27:36.760
 And then that zoning transitioned to MN, and that use is not permitted now as well.

00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:39.520
 So that is a nonconforming use.

00:27:39.520 --> 00:27:43.160
 And really, it's because the vision of this area has changed.

00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:49.680
 This is kind of near our downtown in southeast Denton areas, and so that vision of the area

00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.680
 has changed.

00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:55.440
 It might at one point have made sense in that area, but it no longer makes sense now.

00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.320
 So it is that nonconforming use.

00:27:57.320 --> 00:28:01.280
 And that's where it comes in that, you know, that's how we look at our nonconforming use

00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:06.200
 is to say we want you to maintain your property, but maybe not a tremendous amount of investment,

00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:11.880
 because we do want to see those areas redevelop in a way that's part of our vision.

00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:12.880
 Commissioner Smith.

00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:13.880
 Thank you, Chair.

00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.080
 The intensive use change here.

00:28:17.080 --> 00:28:23.960
 So let's say a bar owner comes in and wants to buy that property, and it's obviously a

00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:27.400
 less, and I'm assuming it's not allowed in that area, it is.

00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:31.320
 But I'm just trying to think of a scenario which would get to the point of my question,

00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:37.840
 which is expansion, no structural changes, a decrease in square footage, is that going

00:28:37.840 --> 00:28:42.480
 to be permitted if they wanted to modify the building, but decreasing the usable square

00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:43.480
 footage?

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.680
 Let's say they're tearing down a portion of the building to then build it out to be

00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:47.680
 a beer garden.

00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.320
 That's the best thing I can come off the top of my head.

00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:52.920
 But it seems like all the nonconforming uses pieces within there, the only thing we really

00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:58.100
 ever see with nonconforming use issues is the expansion of it.

00:28:58.100 --> 00:29:03.240
 Is a decrease or a modification, but lessening square footage, is that allowed within that,

00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.680
 by how that definition is written?

00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:10.760
 These are always tricky, and I'm going to look at my ... But probably ...

00:29:10.760 --> 00:29:13.760
 It's technically a structural change, right?

00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:15.840
 Is it a structural ... Yes, it is a structural change.

00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:22.040
 And are you asking, could they change to another use, like a beer garden?

00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:27.000
 So for instance, an MN, a beer garden, because it sells alcohol, would require a specific

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.000
 use permit.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.000
 Yeah.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.320
 I'm thinking more of like, let's say there's a manufacturing plant that's all been enclosed,

00:29:33.320 --> 00:29:36.480
 but they now need a space that's actually open air.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.320
 It's a nonconforming use.

00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:42.080
 They tear a portion of the building down that's now open air storage.

00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:45.040
 It's still a nonconforming use, but it's a reduction of the structure itself.

00:29:45.040 --> 00:29:46.040
 It depends.

00:29:46.040 --> 00:29:47.040
 Give you tough ones too.

00:29:47.040 --> 00:29:51.240
 I'm going to toss that to Tina.

00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:55.080
 So you raise a good question.

00:29:55.080 --> 00:29:58.840
 We would look at their drawings and plans and seeing what is it that they're proposing

00:29:58.840 --> 00:30:00.080
 to do.

00:30:00.080 --> 00:30:05.720
 My first thought would be is, we've got to look at the schedule of use charts to see,

00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:10.640
 okay, is the use that's being requested truly less intensive from how we classify the uses

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.880
 in the use table?

00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:16.560
 We would look at the footprint of what was used previously.

00:30:16.560 --> 00:30:21.400
 So let's say this building is a thousand square feet, but they want to use 500 square feet

00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:25.640
 for office and use the remaining 500 square feet for storage purposes.

00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:30.480
 If they were using the existing building, we'd probably say, yes, we could work through

00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.840
 that because they're not expanding the building.

00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:37.760
 If they're wanting to alter the building though, then I think that would become more of an

00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:44.920
 issue because I thought on her prior slide, you cannot have any structural changes to accommodate

00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.400
 non-conforming uses.

00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:54.040
 That structural change would be accommodating non-conforming use.

00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:57.800
 Bottom line, and Julie may have not necessarily gotten to this yet in her presentation, but

00:30:57.800 --> 00:31:01.640
 the goal with non-conformities is that they go away, especially non-conforming uses.

00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:08.200
 My apologies if I'm stealing your thunder, but the zoning regulations presumably changed

00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:13.240
 for a reason, probably because of policy direction that was provided to the city of we want this

00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:14.700
 area to change and evolve.

00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:20.220
 We don't like how it's been, and so we want to set a new course and direction and accommodating

00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:25.200
 a new path for areas, and I've been in communities that have done that.

00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.360
 When it comes to non-conformities, when we change regulatory requirements, the goal is

00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:30.840
 eventually that those uses will go away.

00:31:30.840 --> 00:31:35.640
 Our ordinances are set up where they allow the non-conformity to continue operating,

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:42.740
 but we purposely put limitations on them so that they cannot be comfortable for expansion.

00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:47.320
 We'll allow you to continue existing, but we're going to keep parameters on you, and

00:31:47.320 --> 00:31:52.840
 some of those parameters might be uncomfortable for you, but we, the city, made a conscious

00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:58.160
 decision that we don't want more of these uses happening within this area, so that's

00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:02.600
 why we made the change.

00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:05.760
 We actually allow for modifications to a certain extent.

00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:09.600
 To me, the fact that we allow for a property to go from one non-conforming use to a lesser

00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:16.840
 non-conforming use causes me a little angst as a planner, but that's the path that we've

00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:18.800
 chosen here in Denton, and so be it.

00:32:18.800 --> 00:32:23.080
 I've worked in communities where we've been more aggressive with that, because we are,

00:32:23.080 --> 00:32:27.640
 especially if we are trying to direct change in an area and wanting certain uses to go

00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:34.560
 away, then we want conforming uses, because keep in mind, while that one use of the building

00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:37.840
 may be non-conforming, there are a variety of other uses that are allowed within the

00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:41.720
 zoning district that somebody could do in the property, so those are the uses that we

00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:43.320
 want to get to, right?

00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:47.800
 We don't want to make it super comfortable for the non-conforming uses to be able to

00:32:47.800 --> 00:32:53.000
 continue to expand and exist, so that's kind of the planning 101 behind that, and sorry,

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:54.760
 like I said about this.

00:32:54.760 --> 00:32:55.760
 Part two to the question.

00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:56.760
 Thank you, Tina.

00:32:56.760 --> 00:32:57.760
 I appreciate it.

00:32:57.760 --> 00:33:01.960
 Everything that was talked about non-conforming has always been land use and zoning.

00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:09.640
 There's never really anything in the code about operations occurring, right?

00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:17.200
 Manufacturing plan, shut down, owner never sold it, and eventually the owner is still

00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.040
 going to own it or a trust owns it, son comes in 15 years later, manufacturing plan hasn't

00:33:22.040 --> 00:33:24.320
 been operating, comes back in and wants to take that property.

00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:28.360
 It's non-conforming, wants to start operation, operating it again.

00:33:28.360 --> 00:33:33.320
 It doesn't change ownership, but do we kick in anything at that point in time, the non-conforming

00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:34.320
 use is there?

00:33:34.320 --> 00:33:37.920
 So if they ceased operations for more than a year, they do not get the non-conforming

00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.920
 use back.

00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:39.920
 Got it.

00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:40.920
 Okay.

00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:41.920
 Was that in there a second ago, and I just missed that?

00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:42.920
 It is, but yeah.

00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:43.920
 Right.

00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.080
 And here in Denton, in my opinion, we're actually generous because we give people a year.

00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:53.440
 Many communities that I've worked in, it's six months, so it is, because like I said,

00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.160
 the goal is for these uses to go away.

00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:02.200
 So if a non-conforming use ceased operation, and in our case in Denton, if they have ceased

00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.180
 operation for more than a year, then they don't get the non-conforming use anymore.

00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:10.680
 They can have all the conforming uses available to use the property for, but they don't get

00:34:10.680 --> 00:34:14.360
 the non-conforming use, because it's in some of the things that we look at going through

00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:18.840
 ours, especially when we're hitting that one year market, was there truly one year mark,

00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.260
 not market, but was there truly an intent to abandon the use?

00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:28.640
 Was the water account disconnected, has there been no activity that we've been able to document?

00:34:28.640 --> 00:34:34.120
 Because we take these issues seriously, right, but we look to see, okay, was there true intent

00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:41.120
 for abandonment of that use, because on the flip side, we are sensitive to the fact that

00:34:41.120 --> 00:34:45.640
 properties have, especially when they've got non-conforming uses, if the property owner

00:34:45.640 --> 00:34:50.860
 had a tenant that closed its doors, nine months later, they finally get a new tenant in there.

00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:54.400
 We realize they have those property rights, and so we honor those, right?

00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:59.360
 So, but, you know, if that year comes and goes, and somebody wants to try and reopen

00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:04.880
 that business, and that use is not allowed, then we'll inform them of that.

00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.000
 Commissioner Cole?

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.440
 Thank you, Chair.

00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:15.480
 I think the most likely scenario for non-conforming use, though, are all the homes that are within

00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:18.220
 500 feet of a gas well.

00:35:18.220 --> 00:35:19.720
 There are many here in this town.

00:35:19.720 --> 00:35:27.560
 So that was the catalyst for why we put residential uses, not non-conforming.

00:35:27.560 --> 00:35:35.600
 So a swath of the vintage gets, takes out, gets, you know, trees fall, whatever, on Vintage

00:35:35.600 --> 00:35:40.760
 Street, where that, you know, all those homes are within 500 feet of a gas well, and they

00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.160
 have 50% damage or whatever.

00:35:43.160 --> 00:35:50.040
 I mean, my problem with it is, is that it's going to, you know, some of these people are

00:35:50.040 --> 00:35:54.760
 going to be homeless, and it's going to take them six months to even, I mean, to go through

00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.360
 this process if the ZBA even allows them to do this.

00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.700
 So by right, can they rebuild those homes?

00:36:02.700 --> 00:36:03.700
 Is that what you're saying, or?

00:36:03.700 --> 00:36:08.160
 So I'm going to call my gas well expert, because that's the part of the code I'm still learning,

00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:09.660
 so I'll admit.

00:36:09.660 --> 00:36:14.160
 When the gas well ordinance was updated a couple of years ago to the 500 foot reverse setback,

00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:18.760
 council intentionally built in an exception that all of the existing residential uses

00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:22.040
 and lots within that 500 foot radius are considered legal.

00:36:22.040 --> 00:36:23.040
 They're not non-conforming.

00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:24.040
 Right.

00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:28.480
 Because I put in, you know, I was the one that suggested the grandfather clause that

00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:35.880
 would have made this so much easier, but council and their wisdom didn't see it that way.

00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:42.680
 That, you know, I just don't want to process people to death in that scenario, you know.

00:36:42.680 --> 00:36:43.680
 So thank you.

00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:44.680
 Yes.

00:36:44.680 --> 00:36:45.680
 That's great.

00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:46.680
 Yeah, in that case, they're completely protected.

00:36:46.680 --> 00:36:47.680
 Awesome.

00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:48.680
 Thank you, Haley.

00:36:48.680 --> 00:36:52.160
 Julie, I think we're going to let you continue with the presentation, and then we'll.

00:36:52.160 --> 00:36:53.800
 Otherwise, we're going to steal all your slides.

00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:54.800
 All right.

00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:55.800
 No, no.

00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:57.000
 Y'all are doing great.

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:01.240
 Our two other types of non-conformities are non-conforming structure and non-conforming

00:37:01.240 --> 00:37:02.240
 lot.

00:37:02.240 --> 00:37:06.200
 So a non-conforming structure is any structure established or constructed legally, but no

00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:08.880
 longer conforms.

00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:14.760
 This is important to look at because if a non-conforming structure is damaged by natural

00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:23.000
 causes and less than 50% was damaged, they can rebuild to that original condition.

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:30.720
 But if 51 or more percent of that building is damaged, then it may not be rebuilt.

00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:37.240
 And so that comes into, you know, all of those considerations that Tina was talking about

00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:39.560
 or that Tina mentioned.

00:37:39.560 --> 00:37:43.020
 And so we want to keep that in mind.

00:37:43.020 --> 00:37:47.680
 Non-conforming lot, that is a legally established lot that no longer complies with the current

00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:51.440
 dimensional standards.

00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:55.840
 Structures on non-conforming lots are considered non-conforming structures.

00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.800
 I want to mention one thing, non-conforming lots may be built upon.

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:06.120
 So legal non-conforming, if it was a platted lot and it no longer conforms, someone can

00:38:06.120 --> 00:38:07.120
 build on it.

00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:08.120
 We wouldn't prevent it.

00:38:08.120 --> 00:38:10.600
 But they do have to meet current dimensional standards.

00:38:10.600 --> 00:38:18.200
 So my example here is if a platted R4 lot is smaller than the minimum requirement of

00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:24.480
 7,000 square feet, minimum 50 feet width, 80 feet depth, someone can still build on

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.640
 that, say, if it's a 6,000 square foot lot.

00:38:27.640 --> 00:38:33.440
 But they do have to conform to those setbacks for R4, and that would be 20 feet front yard,

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:44.520
 20 feet side yard adjacent to a street, 5 yard interior side, and then 10 feet rear.

00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:47.480
 And then we have -- I'm sorry, we have four non-conformities.

00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:48.720
 I misspoke.

00:38:48.720 --> 00:38:51.780
 And then lastly, we have our non-conforming site feature.

00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:55.440
 That is a legally established site feature that no longer complies.

00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.040
 That's where we're getting into those site design standards, like where your parking

00:38:59.040 --> 00:39:04.540
 is located, where your driveways are, what kind of landscaping and screening you have.

00:39:04.540 --> 00:39:07.440
 So we have an example here.

00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:12.600
 The property was built in the -- we think it was built in the 1960s.

00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:16.080
 It has zoning of MN, which does not allow front parking.

00:39:16.080 --> 00:39:24.040
 So that front parking can continue in perpetuity as long as it stays as it is and it's being

00:39:24.040 --> 00:39:25.040
 used.

00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:32.000
 But if they expand the building, if they tear down the building, if they want to do specific

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.560
 thresholds of additions, then they will have to address that non-conformity, and they cannot

00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:40.200
 increase that non-conformity.

00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:45.000
 You know, they also have potential challenges with maybe the driveway throat length and

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.480
 those driveway separations.

00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:52.240
 So in the event they want to redevelop that site, we would have to look at that site,

00:39:52.240 --> 00:40:00.520
 see what they're proposing, and see where that site can become -- come into conformance.

00:40:00.520 --> 00:40:03.860
 So Tina mentioned how to -- eliminating non-conformity.

00:40:03.860 --> 00:40:09.320
 So we do -- there are instances where our vision of an area is changed, and we want

00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:15.640
 to look at those non-conforming uses and see how to get them in compliance.

00:40:15.640 --> 00:40:17.240
 A non-conformity can cease.

00:40:17.240 --> 00:40:18.240
 We talked about that.

00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:22.400
 If it -- after a year, they lose those non-conforming rights.

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.880
 Or the code does allow the amortization.

00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.400
 Once again, I'm not sure it's something that the City of Denton has used in the past, but

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.360
 it is in our Denton Development Code.

00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:38.240
 It can be modified to come into compliance with the DDC and become legally conforming.

00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:44.240
 Or in the instance of some cases that we have, it can be rezoned to a district that permits

00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:50.360
 the use or a PD, which would establish unique standards to accommodate especially that non-conforming

00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:51.360
 site feature.

00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.360
 One --

00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:53.360
 >> True.

00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:54.360
 Can I stop you for a minute?

00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:55.360
 >> Absolutely.

00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:56.360
 >> You've said the word "amortized" a couple of times.

00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:57.480
 Do you want to just expound upon what that means?

00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:58.480
 >> Yes.

00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.160
 I have my -- and I'm going to try not to talk out of turn.

00:41:02.160 --> 00:41:09.800
 But it can set a deadline for when that -- when that non-conforming use would cease.

00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:16.360
 So say 10 years out that everyone's investment-backed expectation would have been met.

00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.760
 And then that non-conforming use would need to go away.

00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:23.080
 So did I say that, and then Tina might want to add to that?

00:41:23.080 --> 00:41:24.320
 >> Well, and just to expand on that.

00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:31.160
 So what Julie said is correct, and I've worked in communities that have employed something

00:41:31.160 --> 00:41:32.160
 to this nature.

00:41:32.160 --> 00:41:42.400
 You know, the goal is to allow for a property owner, business owner who -- maybe non-conformity

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:47.920
 to be able to continue operating for a defined period of time, but to allow them to be able

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:52.600
 to recoup some of the investment that they've made into that property.

00:41:52.600 --> 00:41:57.160
 It is -- to me, it is a little bit more aggressive approach, particularly if the city were to

00:41:57.160 --> 00:41:58.360
 embark on that path.

00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:02.080
 It is an option that cities have utilized.

00:42:02.080 --> 00:42:08.640
 But it -- to me, it is -- it becomes a little more challenging, because the business owner

00:42:08.640 --> 00:42:13.800
 or the property owner is having to prove up that they need a certain amount of time in

00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:17.560
 order to be able to amortize all of their investment or to recoup all of their investment

00:42:17.560 --> 00:42:24.440
 that they've made within the property, and then presumably possibly wanting to have some

00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:27.200
 sort of financial benefit in the end, right?

00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:33.400
 So then it becomes potentially something that's negotiated between the city and the property

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:34.400
 owner.

00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.840
 You know, the property owner may say, well, I need 20 years, and the city is saying, well,

00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.080
 no, we only would give you 10 years.

00:42:40.080 --> 00:42:41.760
 Help us understand your numbers, right?

00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:47.000
 And so it's -- in my experience, it's not something that has always been implemented.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.680
 I've seen it done, particularly like with some specific use permits for temporary uses,

00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:55.720
 which is even a challenge, because then you're coming back to a property owner, you know,

00:42:55.720 --> 00:42:59.480
 say five years, 10 years from now and say, oh, hey, by the way, remember, you agreed

00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:00.480
 to this?

00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:06.440
 So -- and so it's -- hence why it's not the most popular option, but it is an available

00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:07.640
 option that's out there.

00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:12.280
 And I don't know, y'all might have remembered many -- several years ago, I would say maybe

00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:16.720
 about five years, plus or minus, there was a case that played out in the court of public

00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:20.720
 opinion on the news with respect to an automotive business down in Dallas.

00:43:20.720 --> 00:43:21.720
 But --

00:43:21.720 --> 00:43:22.720
 Well, I saw you.

00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:28.120
 Okay, so -- you're obviously familiar with it, but anyway, but, you know, the city of

00:43:28.120 --> 00:43:33.640
 Dallas was looking to have some non-conforming uses go away, and apparently there was agreement

00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:38.720
 put in place with a particular automotive-related use, and the time was coming due, right, for

00:43:38.720 --> 00:43:40.760
 them to have to close their doors.

00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:50.600
 And so it was well advertised within the news, and -- but it was, you know, there was an

00:43:50.600 --> 00:43:55.840
 amortization schedule that was put in place as to when that business would agree to cease

00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:56.840
 operations.

00:43:56.840 --> 00:44:01.920
 So it sometimes makes the city look really bad in that effort, and, you know, on that

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:06.040
 one, I knew there was two sides to every story, right, but that is something that, you know,

00:44:06.040 --> 00:44:09.080
 the city of Dallas used in that particular instance.

00:44:09.080 --> 00:44:11.800
 Thank you.

00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:16.280
 And then ultimately, some of you may remember this case that came before you.

00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:22.360
 It probably had been three or four years ago, but a -- there was a hospital use.

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:29.040
 That use was permitted, that zoning was MR, but the parking space, the number of parking

00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:33.680
 spaces that they had and they wanted, and then the parking lot landscaping no longer

00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:38.360
 conformed to our 2019 Denton Development Code standards.

00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:46.040
 And so in order to eliminate that non-conformity, they actually rezoned to a PD to accommodate

00:44:46.040 --> 00:44:51.920
 their existing development and then actually a hospital expansion.

00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:56.240
 So we've mentioned the ZBA a couple of times, just want to go over kind of their duties

00:44:56.240 --> 00:44:59.160
 briefly as they relate to non-conformities.

00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:07.200
 ZBA is a quasi-judicial board, and it has seven regular members plus alternates.

00:45:07.200 --> 00:45:14.280
 Quasi-judicial, actually, when you present or speak to the ZBA, you actually get sworn

00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:21.800
 in, so it's a little different than P and Z. 75% of the members have to be in attendance

00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.840
 for a quorum, and their decisions are final.

00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:35.240
 The next place to go, if the outcome is not to someone's liking, would go to court.

00:45:35.240 --> 00:45:37.360
 So that's where it gets in that quasi-judicial.

00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:41.280
 And they hear variances from the DDC and the sign code.

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:46.880
 They hear relief from from gas well setbacks, appeals and administrative decisions, and

00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:51.760
 then also where you get into that request regarding non-conformities.

00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:56.680
 They can establish, reestablish, change, terminate them.

00:45:56.680 --> 00:46:01.800
 All of their decisions require a supermajority, so six out of seven of the members have to

00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:03.640
 approve something.

00:46:03.640 --> 00:46:10.760
 And they are bound by Texas Local Government Code Chapter 211, Denton Development Code,

00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.080
 and also our city charter.

00:46:14.080 --> 00:46:17.520
 And that concludes the presentation, if you have any questions.

00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:19.000
 Excellent, Julie.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:20.000
 Thank you.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.680
 Any questions?

00:46:23.680 --> 00:46:25.200
 We answered them along the way.

00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:26.200
 Yeah.

00:46:26.200 --> 00:46:27.200
 Thank you very much.

00:46:27.200 --> 00:46:29.320
 If I could add a follow-up comment.

00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:30.320
 Yes, of course.

00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.080
 So as Julie pointed out, we did a surprise boot camp presentation for you this evening

00:46:34.080 --> 00:46:38.800
 on non-conformities, but we felt it was appropriate to have this conversation in light of the zoning

00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:44.160
 case that you have on your agenda this evening, because of the fact that with those properties,

00:46:44.160 --> 00:46:45.480
 they are in a non-conforming status.

00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.520
 So just want the Commission to be able to understand, you know, the rules that come

00:46:48.520 --> 00:46:52.840
 along with non-conforming properties to hopefully provide some better context.

00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:53.840
 Thank you.

00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:54.840
 Very much.

00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:01.160
 Okay, we've got one more work session report today, and it is 3B, Receiver Report Holder

00:47:01.160 --> 00:47:04.600
 Discussion Regarding Regulations, Procedures Related to Public Hearing.

00:47:04.600 --> 00:47:11.720
 I think this is a follow-up to one of our studies from before.

00:47:11.720 --> 00:47:12.720
 Hello.

00:47:12.720 --> 00:47:14.240
 Hi, Julie Wyatt.

00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:20.320
 I think Hillary's going to be the star of this to talk about notification in the ETJ,

00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:28.040
 and then I do have some follow-up information regarding notifications in our city website.

00:47:28.040 --> 00:47:33.160
 Haley's been working with our tech services group, our social media group, and so I don't

00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:37.520
 know if y'all want Hillary to talk first or how you want it to go.

00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:38.520
 You're welcome.

00:47:38.520 --> 00:47:39.520
 However you would like to do it.

00:47:39.520 --> 00:47:40.520
 We're experts.

00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:42.800
 So this will be fairly short.

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:50.440
 At MemoryServes, I was asked to look into the risks of affirmatively, like, opting into

00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:56.560
 notifications within the ETJ and whether there were litigation risks or reputational risks

00:47:56.560 --> 00:48:00.840
 if someone received a courtesy notice from being in the ETJ and thought they were to

00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:07.840
 be counted within the 20% protest threshold and were confused and annoyed.

00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:14.200
 So the very long story short of my research is that as long as our notices are drafted

00:48:14.200 --> 00:48:25.260
 carefully and, of course, upon receiving direction from city council to do so, there's not appreciable

00:48:25.260 --> 00:48:32.600
 risk of litigation from a protest counting standpoint if courtesy notices are sent to

00:48:32.600 --> 00:48:37.640
 members of the community who reside in the ETJ.

00:48:37.640 --> 00:48:42.360
 I can expand upon that if y'all wish, but it ended up being fairly straightforward.

00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:48.600
 Yeah, and you're basically talking, having language maybe on that notification that states

00:48:48.600 --> 00:48:49.600
 something about--

00:48:49.600 --> 00:48:54.000
 Something to the effect of you were, because of your proximity to this project, you're

00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:00.160
 receiving this courtesy notification, please be aware while you're welcome to come to the

00:49:00.160 --> 00:49:07.360
 meeting and give comment and PNC can absolutely factor your comment into your decision.

00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:14.200
 You're not going to be eligible to be counted and cite to the 20% provision in TLGC.

00:49:14.200 --> 00:49:15.200
 That's good.

00:49:15.200 --> 00:49:16.200
 That's good.

00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:17.200
 And there was no-- Sorry, Chair.

00:49:17.200 --> 00:49:18.200
 I just talked about that.

00:49:18.200 --> 00:49:19.200
 Commissioner Smith, go right ahead.

00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:26.680
 The 500, because we have the 200 and 500, so it would be the 500-foot kind of boundary.

00:49:26.680 --> 00:49:30.760
 Was there any conversation about the distance from the legal standpoints that keeping conformity

00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:33.720
 would just be those that are in the 500-foot boundary that fall into that?

00:49:33.720 --> 00:49:36.040
 I think I assumed that it would be within the 500-foot threshold.

00:49:36.040 --> 00:49:37.040
 Because that's the courtesy notice boundary.

00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:40.800
 Because that's our courtesy threshold, absolutely.

00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.200
 That could be modified by direction from council.

00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:44.200
 Okay.

00:49:44.200 --> 00:49:50.840
 Oh, the last little tidbit I have is if there's appetite for such an action among PNC, the

00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:55.720
 best way to sort of elicit that direction from council would be to talk to your council

00:49:55.720 --> 00:49:56.720
 member.

00:49:56.720 --> 00:50:00.920
 It's our thought.

00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:04.400
 About the desire to-- About the desire to do that.

00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:10.960
 And the idea being that they would probably ask for a two-minute pitch and then build

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:14.400
 consensus there and then direct staff to implement.

00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:15.400
 Great.

00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:17.840
 What if we don't have a council member currently?

00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.120
 Pick one and email him.

00:50:20.120 --> 00:50:21.120
 Okay.

00:50:21.120 --> 00:50:22.120
 Find somebody at-large.

00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:25.400
 Hilary, thank you for talking it down.

00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:27.520
 Yeah, of course.

00:50:27.520 --> 00:50:28.520
 That's great.

00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:30.840
 Julie, we'll give it back to you.

00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.840
 Yes.

00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:39.700
 There was additional discussion that evening about our website, there's some kind of concerns

00:50:39.700 --> 00:50:46.840
 about finding those notices and lots of clicks, and so we've been working with tech services

00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:50.080
 to try to get that a little more streamlined.

00:50:50.080 --> 00:50:52.280
 I did check it before I came.

00:50:52.280 --> 00:51:00.380
 I typed in my zoning case in the search bar of our website and it popped up.

00:51:00.380 --> 00:51:03.240
 So it looks like that is working well.

00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:12.120
 There are also two places on the City of Denton landing page that will get you to our development

00:51:12.120 --> 00:51:17.120
 notices, and I'm sorry, it is really hard to see, but it was difficult to take a screenshot

00:51:17.120 --> 00:51:19.200
 with the drop-down menu.

00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:24.280
 But one place you can look is under residents, and then news and stories, you've got development

00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.320
 notices here.

00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:31.840
 And then also you can click on business, and that will also have an option for you to click

00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:33.340
 on development notices.

00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:36.160
 It then pulls up our development notices page.

00:51:36.160 --> 00:51:41.760
 It not only has notices regarding our zoning cases, but also our area planning efforts.

00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:49.280
 I looked some of our northeast and southeast area plan, upcoming public engagement activities

00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:54.080
 are actually on those notices, so it's got a lot of information on it.

00:51:54.080 --> 00:52:02.680
 We met with tech services yesterday to also see how we can still continue to improve.

00:52:02.680 --> 00:52:10.160
 One thing we talked about is just maybe updating the copy, the kind of language that we use

00:52:10.160 --> 00:52:19.400
 to make sure that while we are all very much engaged in the planning speak and those buzzwords,

00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:26.240
 and we all know what they mean in terms of everyone in this room, the citizens at large

00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:28.480
 may just not know what all of those things mean.

00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:33.060
 So we're still workshopping that because we want to make sure we get it right.

00:52:33.060 --> 00:52:40.880
 And then also they talked about quarterly social media posts as well as front page news

00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.320
 flashes to advertise those development notices.

00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:51.800
 So the news flashes, if you go to the City of Denton, the landing page, you've got kind

00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:53.880
 of the trending topics box.

00:52:53.880 --> 00:53:00.200
 So to add that in there every once in a while to continue to advertise that and let people

00:53:00.200 --> 00:53:07.020
 know that we do have a development notices page that they can look at at any time.

00:53:07.020 --> 00:53:11.680
 So that really concludes kind of what's going on behind the scenes in terms of the website

00:53:11.680 --> 00:53:14.480
 to get that information out.

00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:17.280
 >> Yeah, that's a little bit better.

00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:21.240
 I was really hoping for a button where we've got like public meetings, job opportunities,

00:53:21.240 --> 00:53:26.200
 those kind of things, it just being right there on the front page instead of finding

00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:32.080
 it under residence, finding it under business and finding it that way.

00:53:32.080 --> 00:53:35.320
 So I think it could be -- >> We tried.

00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.720
 >> I mean, that's really what I was going for.

00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:43.040
 Like no more of the hunt and hunt and hunt and oh, okay, found it.

00:53:43.040 --> 00:53:48.960
 It just being there, you know, like, I mean, if they didn't want to, because they've already

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:53.480
 got buttons that go across the page maybe and they didn't want it to scroll, then maybe

00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:57.840
 lose the -- I don't know, probably lose one of these.

00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.320
 At any rate, thank you.

00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:01.400
 It's better at least.

00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:02.400
 Two clicks.

00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:03.400
 That's good.

00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:10.200
 So part of our challenges come from the way the website's formatted and so there are limitations

00:54:10.200 --> 00:54:16.000
 because we did -- you know, I have witnesses, both Julie and Haley were part of that conversation.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:19.440
 But we did talk about, you know, is there a way to make it much more obvious especially

00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:20.440
 on the city's home page?

00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:25.840
 You know, the challenge is we're also -- we're competing with all of the other information

00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:31.120
 being communicated out to our residents and property owners within the community and businesses

00:54:31.120 --> 00:54:32.640
 for that matter.

00:54:32.640 --> 00:54:37.800
 So hence why we were exploring what other options did we have available to us to be

00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:43.760
 able to help get the word out and obviously, you know, you all can be advocates, too, for

00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:49.880
 being able to encourage persons to be able to sign up for these development notices and

00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:54.320
 in particular the project opt-in notifications aspect that we have as well.

00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.240
 So it's -- the word's getting out, I think, slowly.

00:54:58.240 --> 00:55:03.200
 We looked at some of our -- they were able to pull some of the analytics and probably

00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:08.960
 not as many folks have signed up that you all would prefer, but part of it is just helping

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:12.280
 get that word out and that's where I, you know, where I come back to, you all can be

00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:14.960
 advocates in that effort as well.

00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:20.360
 Maybe one place I would suggest if you ever have this tech meeting again is, you know,

00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.600
 we've got a public meetings button there.

00:55:23.600 --> 00:55:31.440
 Maybe when you get to public meetings, maybe it could be in that list of, you know, links.

00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.400
 I think that would make sense.

00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:34.400
 Okay, as well.

00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:37.200
 I don't know who's first, but I'll go here.

00:55:37.200 --> 00:55:38.200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

00:55:38.200 --> 00:55:39.200
 You're next.

00:55:39.200 --> 00:55:40.720
 >> Thank you, Chair.

00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:46.480
 Would it be permissible for us during concluding items to put a future motion on an agenda

00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:54.000
 to make a recommendation as a body to add ATJs into the notification system?

00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:57.320
 I understand we can individually go to our council members, but I think it would be more

00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:03.960
 effective if we as a body made that recommendation to council.

00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:10.000
 >> So procedurally or structurally, there's not necessarily a problem with that.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:16.760
 It's just not something that from what I've seen and been told from MAC and such that

00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:19.440
 there's not usually -- let me back up a step.

00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:26.400
 The form that that action would take would likely be a resolution recommending this action.

00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:36.280
 And we just don't typically see recommending boards make policy recommendations in that

00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:37.720
 manner.

00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:40.020
 I think it could be done.

00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:45.240
 I don't have a problem with it per se from like a procedural compliance perspective.

00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:47.040
 Tina, do you have any thoughts?

00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:52.840
 >> My thought was if it's the general concurrence of the Planning and Zoning Commission that

00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:59.480
 notifications, at least courtesy notifications, be extended into the ETJ, if that's the result

00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:05.800
 of our conversation, then to me, Chair Ellis as the chairperson of the Planning and Zoning

00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:11.440
 Commission could also approach the mayor, for example, and have that conversation with

00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:16.160
 them and just say, hey, the Planning and Zoning Commission discussed this and it was the consensus

00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:23.560
 of the commission that council strongly consider courtesy notices within the ETJ and would

00:57:23.560 --> 00:57:26.960
 respectfully request that the council take that up as a two-minute pitch.

00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:30.920
 So to me, you could have that opportunity to be able to have that conversation with

00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:35.200
 the mayor because presumably you have conversations with the mayor about how things are going

00:57:35.200 --> 00:57:40.160
 with the Planning and Zoning Commission from time to time, and so to me, that would be

00:57:40.160 --> 00:57:42.880
 perfectly within the realm of the chair.

00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:45.780
 >> Thank you.

00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:48.080
 >> Commissioner Smith?

00:57:48.080 --> 00:57:52.600
 >> On the concluding items that we'd like to include kind of going forward with this

00:57:52.600 --> 00:57:57.040
 note, the development notices piece of it, could we just, I think maybe just as a reminder

00:57:57.040 --> 00:58:01.440
 from a chair perspective to say, hey, you know, thank you all for very much, like by

00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:05.460
 the way, you guys can sign up for development notices in the future by going to the website

00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:09.320
 residence, click residence and then you can see it and just, if we say it from the day

00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:12.800
 us, it'll probably get even more so out there, especially maybe if we say it at the very

00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:16.000
 beginning, but just kind of throwing it out there, beginning of meetings and everyone's

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:17.000
 there.

00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:21.320
 Shouldn't do it at the end because usually at the end everyone had, they've already

00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:22.320
 left.

00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:29.440
 So the, so say even at the beginning of the meeting, say today is a quick PSA, throw it

00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:33.200
 out there at the beginning.

00:58:33.200 --> 00:58:37.000
 >> Procedurally we could do that since, I mean, do we have to wait for concluding items

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:38.000
 to do something like that?

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:39.000
 >> No, I don't think so.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:40.000
 I don't want them speaking.

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.960
 >> You could do it during a public hearing, in my opinion, especially if we have folks

00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:47.880
 that are interested in the project.

00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:52.360
 Before you close the public hearing, you know, that's the opportunity to make the PSA announcement

00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:53.360
 as well.

00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:55.080
 Just part of an educational effort.

00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:56.080
 >> Okay.

00:58:56.080 --> 00:58:57.080
 Great.

00:58:57.080 --> 00:58:58.080
 >> Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:58.080 --> 00:58:59.080
 >> Yeah.

00:58:59.080 --> 00:59:00.080
 Great.

00:59:00.080 --> 00:59:01.080
 Good.

00:59:01.080 --> 00:59:02.080
 Commissioner Pruitt.

00:59:02.080 --> 00:59:03.080
 >> Thank you, Chair.

00:59:03.080 --> 00:59:07.920
 And I apologize if this had already been discussed since I arrived late.

00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:16.880
 Was there any discussion amongst staff about whether sort of already ongoing city outreach

00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:24.440
 activities could include this as a component of that to try to grasp people who are interested

00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:31.120
 about city stuff, but they haven't ever considered this avenue of being an active citizen?

00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:32.320
 Does that make sense?

00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:35.640
 I think last time we talked about this, I had brought up the possibility of doing so

00:59:35.640 --> 00:59:41.040
 at the State of the City meetings or maybe at the public events like Jazz Fest or stuff

00:59:41.040 --> 00:59:44.840
 that we already have a city booth there with some information.

00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:50.200
 >> Yeah, when we're doing, when we have those presence within the community, for example,

00:59:50.200 --> 00:59:54.360
 right now we're really working on public engagement efforts associated with Northeast and South

00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:59.440
 East and eventually downtown, I mean, we can include that also in promoting that.

00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.400
 You know, hey, if you're interested in following development activity within the city, we encourage

01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:04.320
 you to go on our website.

01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:09.360
 We've even talked about like having a QR code presence at those events, whether it's something

01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:14.600
 we hand out or, you know, have the QR code available where people can just scan it right

01:00:14.600 --> 01:00:15.600
 there and then.

01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:19.000
 So, yeah, we've had some of that conversation.

01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:20.000
 >> Thank you.

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.000
 I appreciate that.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:22.000
 >> Thank you.

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:25.320
 Anything else on this?

01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:26.320
 Okay.

01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:34.040
 Well, at 6.01, I will adjourn our work session and we will meet back in council chambers

01:00:34.040 --> 01:00:35.040
 at 6.30.

01:00:35.040 --> 01:00:40.480
 Thank you.

01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:43.280
 >> Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting

01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:47.380
 for Wednesday, April 12, 2023.

01:00:47.380 --> 01:00:51.640
 With a quorum present, I will call us to order at 6.35 p.m.

01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:55.880
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas flags.

01:00:55.880 --> 01:01:03.680
 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

01:01:03.680 --> 01:01:11.560
 for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for

01:01:11.560 --> 01:01:12.560
 all.

01:01:12.560 --> 01:01:13.560
 >> Honor the Texas flag.

01:01:13.560 --> 01:01:21.000
 >> I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.220
 >> Thank you.

01:01:25.220 --> 01:01:29.480
 Next item on our agenda tonight is the approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission minutes

01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:32.680
 for our March 29th meeting.

01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:33.680
 Commissioner Smith.

01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:35.880
 >> Make a motion to approve.

01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:36.880
 >> Commissioner Villarreal.

01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:37.880
 >> Second.

01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:43.240
 >> We've got a first and a second for approval of the minutes for March 29th meeting.

01:01:43.240 --> 01:01:44.240
 Any discussion?

01:01:44.240 --> 01:01:45.240
 Okay.

01:01:45.240 --> 01:01:53.160
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:01:53.160 --> 01:01:56.760
 That motion carries 7-0.

01:01:56.760 --> 01:02:00.480
 Next on our agenda is the Consent Agenda for this evening.

01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:01.480
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:05.360
 >> I move to approve all the -- >> Okay.

01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:06.360
 Commissioner Smith.

01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:07.360
 >> Second.

01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:10.440
 >> We've got a first and a second to approve the Consent Agenda.

01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:11.440
 Any discussion?

01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:12.440
 Okay.

01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:19.720
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:02:19.720 --> 01:02:21.960
 That motion carries 7-0.

01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:24.380
 Next are our items for individual consideration.

01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:29.840
 Item 4A has been withdrawn by the applicant, so we will take no action on 4A.

01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:34.920
 That will bring us to 4B, FP 23-0006.

01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:41.680
 Commissioner Cole is recusing himself from this item.

01:02:41.680 --> 01:02:43.680
 And Ashley is here to give us presentation.

01:02:43.680 --> 01:02:44.680
 Good evening.

01:02:44.680 --> 01:02:45.680
 >> Good evening.

01:02:45.680 --> 01:02:48.840
 Ashley Eckstead, Assistant Planner, City of Denton.

01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:52.240
 This item is FP 23-0006.

01:02:52.240 --> 01:02:55.980
 This is a final platform in industrial use at the intersection of Mosh Branch Road and

01:02:55.980 --> 01:02:59.400
 Jim Crystal Road on approximately 37 acres.

01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:02.960
 At this time, staff is recommending denial, but we have no objection to the requested

01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:04.720
 extension until May 10th, 2023.

01:03:04.720 --> 01:03:06.680
 Happy to answer any questions.

01:03:06.680 --> 01:03:07.840
 >> Thanks, Ashley.

01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:08.840
 Any questions?

01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:09.840
 Okay.

01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:11.680
 I don't see any.

01:03:11.680 --> 01:03:12.680
 Thank you so much.

01:03:12.680 --> 01:03:13.680
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:03:13.680 --> 01:03:18.600
 >> I move approval of the extension to a date certain of May 10th, 2023.

01:03:18.600 --> 01:03:19.600
 >> Thank you.

01:03:19.600 --> 01:03:20.600
 Commissioner Smith?

01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:21.600
 >> Second.

01:03:21.600 --> 01:03:24.880
 >> We've got a first and a second for approval of the extension request to a date certain

01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:27.480
 of May 10th, 2023.

01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:28.480
 Any discussion?

01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:29.480
 Okay.

01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:43.260
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:45.840
 That motion carries 6-0.

01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.000
 We'll give Commissioner Cole a minute to get back in, and that'll bring us to our public

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:52.440
 hearing items for this evening.

01:03:52.440 --> 01:04:00.600
 Our first one this evening is 5A, PD 210007C.

01:04:00.600 --> 01:04:02.200
 Angie's making her way up to the dais.

01:04:02.200 --> 01:04:06.160
 That public hearing has remained open.

01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:08.280
 Go ahead and give it to you for presentation.

01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:09.280
 Thank you.

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:10.280
 >> Yes, ma'am.

01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:11.280
 Good evening.

01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:14.120
 Angie Minglaris, Senior Planner, City of Denton.

01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:16.360
 All right.

01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:19.000
 So this is PD 210007.

01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:24.520
 This is a rezoning request from suburban corridor to a planned development district with the

01:04:24.520 --> 01:04:26.800
 base zoning of mixed-use neighborhood.

01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:31.360
 The site is generally located at the northeast corner of FM 428 and Loop 288.

01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:36.000
 It has a future land use designation of community mixed-use in the Denton 2040 Comprehensive

01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.200
 Plan.

01:04:37.200 --> 01:04:40.240
 As it is today, the site consists of predominantly open pasture.

01:04:40.240 --> 01:04:44.360
 It does have mature tree canopy on site and a detention pond situated along the southern

01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:46.300
 boundary of the property.

01:04:46.300 --> 01:04:53.060
 The approximately 20.92-acre site is part of a larger 25.48-parent tract.

01:04:53.060 --> 01:04:56.600
 You can see here in both your aerial and the zoning exhibit, the very hard corner, which

01:04:56.600 --> 01:05:01.760
 is approximately 4.5 acres, is not part of this planned development request.

01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:07.240
 The intent is to remain as SC zoning for future development of commercial.

01:05:07.240 --> 01:05:10.280
 Surrounding zoning in the site consists of a variety of zoning districts.

01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:16.720
 We have some residential 4, suburban corridor, and then across the street, 428 is public

01:05:16.720 --> 01:05:17.720
 facilities district.

01:05:17.720 --> 01:05:22.160
 A little bit of background on this case before we go further into detail.

01:05:22.160 --> 01:05:27.000
 The site is zoned SC, which typically allows for multifamily development with approval

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:29.000
 of a specific use permit.

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:32.000
 The reason you're seeing this as a planned development district case before you this

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:38.880
 evening is the development plan contemplates approximately 52 units as horizontal multi-living

01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:39.880
 units.

01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:45.740
 Given that this application came in in November of 2021, the DDC did not have a definition

01:05:45.740 --> 01:05:49.800
 that really encapsulated the horizontal multi-living use.

01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:53.480
 Since that time with the demand that we've seen in the city, the DDC has been updated

01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:55.640
 and that is now in allowed use.

01:05:55.640 --> 01:06:00.680
 So if this site were to come in today, they would likely be applying for an SUP as horizontal

01:06:00.680 --> 01:06:03.120
 multi-living is in allowed use in the DDC.

01:06:03.120 --> 01:06:07.600
 However, given the timing of the application, it came in before this was in allowed use

01:06:07.600 --> 01:06:10.720
 and it had gone through several iterations and reviews.

01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:14.840
 Staff continued with the plan development path that this case was on.

01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:20.360
 A little bit more just on the area of where this plan development is located.

01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:26.520
 FM 428 and Loop 288 are the two roadways that would serve this site.

01:06:26.520 --> 01:06:30.080
 FM 428 is a textile owned and maintained road.

01:06:30.080 --> 01:06:33.400
 It is currently constructed as a two-lane road.

01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:36.720
 The 2022 mobility plan does reflect this as a freeway.

01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:40.760
 However, since that plan has been adopted, TxDOT has informed the city that that is to

01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:44.000
 remain as a primary arterial roadway.

01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:46.920
 And then Loop 288 is to the south of the site.

01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:47.920
 It runs east-west.

01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:50.200
 It is also owned and maintained by TxDOT.

01:06:50.200 --> 01:06:54.480
 It is currently an existing limited access freeway and is currently constructed as a

01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:57.800
 four-lane divided freeway.

01:06:57.800 --> 01:06:59.680
 A bit about the development plan itself.

01:06:59.680 --> 01:07:04.560
 Again, this is a plan development request for the development of a multi-family site.

01:07:04.560 --> 01:07:10.180
 It includes both horizontal multi-family units and your traditional mid-rise apartment units.

01:07:10.180 --> 01:07:15.080
 In the blue here on your plan in front of you, you can see where the 52 proposed horizontal

01:07:15.080 --> 01:07:20.120
 multi-family units would be situated and as you move further south on the site as you

01:07:20.120 --> 01:07:26.600
 get closer to Loop 288, you have five traditional mid-rise apartment buildings totaling 305 units.

01:07:26.600 --> 01:07:30.680
 As part of the development standards, the horizontal multi-living component would follow

01:07:30.680 --> 01:07:36.600
 the architectural and site design standards of our single-family neighborhood development

01:07:36.600 --> 01:07:37.600
 products.

01:07:37.600 --> 01:07:42.000
 And then I also want to point out on this plan you can see here on the eastern side

01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:46.080
 of the site there is a reservation for the half width of a future residential street.

01:07:46.080 --> 01:07:51.040
 While at this time the TIA did not support the need for the dedication and construction

01:07:51.040 --> 01:07:56.440
 of additional north-south roadways, should as the area continue to develop that need

01:07:56.440 --> 01:07:57.720
 is warranted.

01:07:57.720 --> 01:08:02.160
 The city does have the 25 and a half foot right of way reservation for the eventual

01:08:02.160 --> 01:08:08.440
 dedication and construction of any north-south connectivity that's needed in the area.

01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:10.000
 A little bit more about the development plan.

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:13.620
 They did include detailed landscape plans with their submittal.

01:08:13.620 --> 01:08:19.840
 The base zoning of MN calls for a 20% landscaped area and 40% tree canopy coverage.

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.680
 Both lots one and two exceed that requirement.

01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:30.640
 One proposes 31% landscape coverage with 50% mature tree canopy, and lot two has a total

01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:35.720
 landscaped area of 36% and 73% mature tree canopy.

01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:39.440
 In addition, throughout the site there are various on-site amenities meeting our open

01:08:39.440 --> 01:08:45.700
 space requirements including pocket parks, dog parks, a few passive recreation lawns

01:08:45.700 --> 01:08:49.600
 and trails throughout the site to connect residents to those locations.

01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:54.120
 And then to the north of the site there is a landscape buffering between the development

01:08:54.120 --> 01:08:58.840
 and what could go to the north and then also along the property line where future commercial

01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:04.600
 development could go there is additional landscape buffering.

01:09:04.600 --> 01:09:10.880
 A TIA was performed for this development request and there were three main takeaways from this.

01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:13.480
 I'll point them out here as I kind of talk through them.

01:09:13.480 --> 01:09:18.960
 One was that a southbound turn lane be constructed at driveway location one on FM 428.

01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:21.680
 So that's this location here.

01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:26.920
 The second recommendation was that a northbound right turn deceleration lane for both driveways

01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:31.200
 one and two be provided and that's shown on the concept plan here running north-south

01:09:31.200 --> 01:09:33.080
 on FM 428.

01:09:33.080 --> 01:09:37.040
 And then finally that a westbound right turn lane be provided at driveway location three

01:09:37.040 --> 01:09:43.080
 which can be found here along loop 288.

01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:47.560
 In reviewing this, staff did review this plan against our general criteria for approval

01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:52.520
 as well as approval criteria for plan development districts and did find that this meets our

01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:54.240
 criteria for approval.

01:09:54.240 --> 01:09:58.880
 Specifically, the project is consistent with the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan, provides

01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:03.160
 a greater level of design quality than what could be achieved with straight zoning.

01:10:03.160 --> 01:10:07.560
 It's compatible with our surrounding areas and there are public facilities in the area

01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:11.480
 that are adequate to serve the development.

01:10:11.480 --> 01:10:16.760
 A look at the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan, the future land use designation shows this

01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:19.400
 area as community mixed use.

01:10:19.400 --> 01:10:23.520
 Community mixed use applies to key corridors in the city that are designed to service transitional

01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:28.080
 areas between our residential areas and our commercial developments.

01:10:28.080 --> 01:10:32.160
 Residential areas are permitted within the community use future land use designation

01:10:32.160 --> 01:10:36.200
 and are designed to be complementary and supportive of commercial uses.

01:10:36.200 --> 01:10:40.600
 The proposed project as it is today does provide that transition from the residential sites

01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:45.680
 that you have to the north as you get closer to the more intensive developments that you

01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:52.560
 see along Loop 288 and the residential that's developed would be supportive of the future

01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:57.200
 commercial that could go in on the remaining SC portion of the site.

01:10:57.200 --> 01:11:01.320
 This is just a little bit closer look at how the area has been developing.

01:11:01.320 --> 01:11:06.960
 You have a similar development pattern emerging to the south of Loop 288 where the apartment

01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:13.280
 multifamily uses are situated and then the outlying parcels are remaining for commercial

01:11:13.280 --> 01:11:14.280
 development.

01:11:14.280 --> 01:11:19.400
 They are located at the southeast corner of Loop 288 in Sherman, however across the road

01:11:19.400 --> 01:11:24.720
 was a recently approved ZCP for Sherman Crossing which also has the same multifamily coming

01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:31.040
 in and the remaining out parcels for commercial are left there along Loop 288.

01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:34.400
 In addition to that, the plan development is consistent with our housing and neighborhood

01:11:34.400 --> 01:11:40.040
 goals which do call for providing a variety and diverse range of housing styles and price

01:11:40.040 --> 01:11:45.880
 points in various locations throughout the city.

01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:50.600
 The development standards do have some proposed deviations from what would be allowed via

01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:51.600
 straight zoning.

01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:55.600
 I'm not going to read them all out to you but I did want to point out some of the main

01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:56.920
 ones.

01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:02.220
 If the site were to have a base zoning of MN, the permitted uses allowed in the DDC

01:12:02.220 --> 01:12:03.220
 are varying.

01:12:03.220 --> 01:12:07.960
 There is a wider range of uses that could be allowed in MN zoning.

01:12:07.960 --> 01:12:11.680
 With this plan development, the applicant is proposing that the uses be restricted to

01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:17.280
 multifamily and horizontal multifamily with any of those accessory uses that are typical

01:12:17.280 --> 01:12:23.320
 of multifamily developments, amenity centers, leasing offices, pools, garages.

01:12:23.320 --> 01:12:29.000
 Then in addition, the horizontal multi-living standards for this particular site refer to

01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:36.160
 using the single-family development architectural style and site orientation for the horizontal

01:12:36.160 --> 01:12:41.480
 multi-living component rather than the multifamily design standards that would be typically applied

01:12:41.480 --> 01:12:47.160
 if this were to come in under straight zoning which allows for just a greater variety of

01:12:47.160 --> 01:12:52.160
 architectural design standards on site than what could otherwise be achieved under the

01:12:52.160 --> 01:12:54.560
 DDC.

01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:58.720
 Public outreach was conducted in accordance with state law as well as the Denton Development

01:12:58.720 --> 01:12:59.720
 Code.

01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:03.920
 Notices were sent out as well as this was posted in the Denton Record Chronicle.

01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:09.520
 At this time, we've received 17 responses in opposition to the request.

01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:16.440
 The applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting and that was back in March of 2022.

01:13:16.440 --> 01:13:20.160
 Staff is recommending approval of this request as it does comply with our general criteria

01:13:20.160 --> 01:13:24.640
 for approval as well as our criteria for approval for plan development districts.

01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:28.040
 The next step in this project would be a public hearing at City Council which is currently

01:13:28.040 --> 01:13:31.160
 scheduled for May 2nd, 2023.

01:13:31.160 --> 01:13:33.160
 With that, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

01:13:33.160 --> 01:13:36.800
 I believe the applicant is also here with the presentation.

01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:37.800
 Thanks Angie.

01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:42.960
 I don't see any questions at this time but we'll call you back if we do.

01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:44.440
 Thank you so much.

01:13:44.440 --> 01:13:51.720
 Yes, I do have a group presentation from the applicant so I'll go ahead and have them come

01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:52.720
 up first.

01:13:52.720 --> 01:13:55.040
 Amy, did you want to start it off?

01:13:55.040 --> 01:13:56.040
 Thanks.

01:13:56.040 --> 01:13:57.040
 Good evening Commissioners.

01:13:57.040 --> 01:14:01.400
 Amy Bissett, 97 Land Company, 109 North Elm.

01:14:01.400 --> 01:14:04.120
 I appreciate being here this evening.

01:14:04.120 --> 01:14:11.440
 We're going to take a little bit of a different format than you might normally see from me.

01:14:11.440 --> 01:14:13.080
 I am here with a group.

01:14:13.080 --> 01:14:17.840
 I'm going to open the presentation tonight with a general overview of how we've gotten

01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:24.400
 to where we are today as well as the neighborhood engagement activities that we have completed

01:14:24.400 --> 01:14:28.840
 and then I'm going to hand off to Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne.

01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:32.920
 He's our traffic engineer and he's going to go into some detail regarding the methodology

01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:38.640
 of the traffic study and then lastly he's going to hand off to Brian Grant with JPI representing

01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:43.560
 the developer of the multifamily and horizontal multifamily.

01:14:43.560 --> 01:14:49.800
 Appreciate your patience as we work through this.

01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:57.200
 I won't reiterate what Angie has gone through but I do just want to say that in the suburban

01:14:57.200 --> 01:15:02.800
 corridor zoning district it is moderate to high intensity commercial office and retail

01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:05.800
 uses.

01:15:05.800 --> 01:15:11.680
 If you looked at the slide that Angie presented on the 2040 plan just moments ago you can

01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:18.960
 see that when you look at the northeast quadrant of Denton there's this one node that allows

01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.520
 for some density and some commercial from a future land use standpoint and everything

01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:29.220
 beyond that that was visible on the screen was low density residential which we understand

01:15:29.220 --> 01:15:34.800
 and respect the neighbors and the residents of this area and their desire to keep this

01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:38.720
 low density residential moving forward.

01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:47.520
 Our site specifically is on the far south end of the coming small area plan and has

01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:52.480
 taken into consideration or attempted to take into consideration their concerns and their

01:15:52.480 --> 01:15:57.860
 desires for the future of their area of the city.

01:15:57.860 --> 01:16:04.800
 And as Angie reiterated when we came in we applied for a PD in November of 2021 that

01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:09.840
 was really our only option at that point in time due to the horizontal multifamily that

01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:11.960
 we were proposing.

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:18.080
 So just to give you a brief overview of our development plan you can see here from south

01:16:18.080 --> 01:16:25.800
 to north we decreased density we have concentrated the vast majority of the density a long loop

01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:26.800
 288.

01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:33.000
 We have 52 single family for rent units and 305 multifamily units on the far south end

01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:36.920
 and we are reserving the hard corner for future commercial.

01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:40.800
 I'm going to show you a couple of things related to that in a moment.

01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:46.280
 JPI is in partnership with Standridge companies to develop that corner and Stacey Standridge

01:16:46.280 --> 01:16:51.480
 is here tonight if you have specific questions for him on timing or intentions going forward

01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:52.480
 on that.

01:16:52.480 --> 01:16:58.440
 I'm going to show you a couple of pictures of the renderings and elevations that are

01:16:58.440 --> 01:16:59.440
 proposed.

01:16:59.440 --> 01:17:04.640
 This is a rendering of one of the multifamily buildings and here are building elevations

01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:15.280
 associated with those buildings and then here's the horizontal multifamily detached.

01:17:15.280 --> 01:17:19.440
 So what I really want to focus on a little bit here is our timeline and we did initiate

01:17:19.440 --> 01:17:22.680
 a zoning change in November of 2021.

01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:28.840
 We attempted our first neighborhood meeting in February of 22 mailing to everyone within

01:17:28.840 --> 01:17:36.840
 the 500 foot requirement and we did not receive any RSVPs beyond the property owner and we

01:17:36.840 --> 01:17:43.560
 voluntarily broadened our communication to the northeastern neighborhood association

01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:48.920
 neighborhood group and opening that up to their full invite list and held a neighborhood

01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:54.360
 meeting in March and had approximately 60 attendees.

01:17:54.360 --> 01:18:01.280
 Subsequent to that between March and May we fielded multiple questions, requests for additional

01:18:01.280 --> 01:18:07.080
 information that we pushed out to the neighborhood when desired and I'll go through a little

01:18:07.080 --> 01:18:09.820
 bit on what that included in a moment.

01:18:09.820 --> 01:18:15.460
 In April of 2022 we were very close to being released to go to public hearing when a couple

01:18:15.460 --> 01:18:20.840
 of asks were made of the city that really sent us back to the drawing board.

01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:25.240
 The first of those was the right of way reservation on the eastern side of the property and the

01:18:25.240 --> 01:18:31.760
 second was the addition of a 40 foot utility easement for a potential 30 inch water line

01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:34.160
 along loop 288 in the future.

01:18:34.160 --> 01:18:40.240
 We went back to the drawing board and accommodated those requests, it took us the better part

01:18:40.240 --> 01:18:45.600
 of four months to just redesign the entire site and then have been through multiple subsequent

01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:49.040
 reviews with staff since then to get to where we are today.

01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:53.560
 We did update the traffic study during that time frame as well to reflect the changes

01:18:53.560 --> 01:18:59.360
 made to the site plan and then now here we are today at public hearing.

01:18:59.360 --> 01:19:05.680
 As it relates to community engagement, we did host a virtual neighborhood meeting.

01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:11.360
 We opened it up to anybody that's on the mailing list for the northeastern neighborhood group.

01:19:11.360 --> 01:19:16.400
 We recorded the meeting, we provided a record of that meeting as well as the slides and

01:19:16.400 --> 01:19:22.040
 the chat record to the neighborhood group afterwards and then over the course of a couple

01:19:22.040 --> 01:19:27.560
 of months we got additional requests for information everywhere from unit mix and sizes, parking

01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:32.960
 ratios, trip generation tables, intersection level of service, days and times of traffic

01:19:32.960 --> 01:19:38.120
 counts, methodology for how we calculated open space and landscape requirements, roof

01:19:38.120 --> 01:19:44.320
 peak heights and we followed through and provided all that information as requested.

01:19:44.320 --> 01:19:50.480
 We also made some improvements that were reflected in the update to the traffic study but were

01:19:50.480 --> 01:19:56.360
 also borne out of some feedback from the property owners that were participating in the neighborhood

01:19:56.360 --> 01:19:57.360
 meetings.

01:19:57.360 --> 01:20:00.960
 The first one being that southbound left hand turn lane, one of the biggest concerns we

01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:08.640
 heard was the stacking of traffic at the Loop 288 light and then secondly was the consolidation.

01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:14.200
 We had multiple access points on Loop 288 and they were specifically concerned about

01:20:14.200 --> 01:20:18.960
 the western most access drive being too close to the intersection and somebody trying to

01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:23.000
 cut across to turn south on 428.

01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:30.120
 We pushed that intersection as far east as we could to still meet city requirements.

01:20:30.120 --> 01:20:36.640
 So when we did go back and make the right of way reservation and the offset for the

01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:40.320
 40 foot utility easement, we reworked the site plan.

01:20:40.320 --> 01:20:45.400
 We had intensive reworking of the tree preservation plan including multiple visits by an arborist

01:20:45.400 --> 01:20:52.680
 with city staff and because that eastern part of the site is where most of the trees are

01:20:52.680 --> 01:20:57.320
 and then they were discounted out of our calculations.

01:20:57.320 --> 01:21:02.200
 We lost about eight and a half percent of units and unfortunately it aligned us with

01:21:02.200 --> 01:21:08.840
 the timing of the kickoff for the small area plan when we got back here today.

01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:13.360
 We heard from you guys on March 15th some concerns that were expressed there.

01:21:13.360 --> 01:21:18.120
 I'm going to hand it off in just a moment to address the traffic concerns.

01:21:18.120 --> 01:21:23.320
 As it relates to bicycle path and safety on Sherman Drive, we have been working both with

01:21:23.320 --> 01:21:29.040
 the retail developer on our side of the site to provide connectivity that is off road connectivity

01:21:29.040 --> 01:21:33.620
 along the sidewalk path on the side of the road there and then we've also been talking

01:21:33.620 --> 01:21:37.800
 to the property owner on the other side of the street about connecting from the existing

01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:42.200
 sidewalk at the water park all the way down to Loop 288.

01:21:42.200 --> 01:21:46.640
 I'm going to show you a few concepts by Standridge companies and then I'm going to turn it over

01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:48.960
 to Brian with Kimley Horne.

01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:53.200
 These are just a few of the developments that Standridge has done in recent years that are

01:21:53.200 --> 01:21:56.920
 representative of something that might go on this corner.

01:21:56.920 --> 01:21:57.920
 All right.

01:21:57.920 --> 01:22:01.440
 Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne.

01:22:01.440 --> 01:22:06.320
 Good evening.

01:22:06.320 --> 01:22:11.520
 Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne, 801 Cherry Street, Fort Worth, Texas.

01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:16.280
 Traffic engineer for the project have been involved since we've begun the process.

01:22:16.280 --> 01:22:20.240
 Look forward to want to talk a little bit about some of the, again, Amy mentioned some

01:22:20.240 --> 01:22:23.920
 of the questions that you have, want to discuss some of those.

01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:27.360
 Also want to address some of the comments we've received from some of the neighbors

01:22:27.360 --> 01:22:32.360
 and just talk a little bit about how we're addressing some of those issues.

01:22:32.360 --> 01:22:38.000
 So there have been some comments on the traffic counts and the actual level of service results

01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:43.000
 that were provided as part of the traffic study.

01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:46.880
 As far as the timing of when the traffic counts were made, because of when the development

01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:50.680
 was moving through the process, we were in the middle of the summer.

01:22:50.680 --> 01:22:54.000
 And it's not uncommon to have that happen.

01:22:54.000 --> 01:23:00.720
 And so we sat down with the city's traffic engineers and staff and talked about that.

01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:05.080
 We frequently gathered information, traffic counts during the summer and then we can make

01:23:05.080 --> 01:23:07.600
 adjustments to account for school conditions.

01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:10.560
 It's very best practice when that happens.

01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:16.040
 And that was agreed to with city staff as we were completing the methodology for the

01:23:16.040 --> 01:23:17.960
 scope for the traffic study.

01:23:17.960 --> 01:23:23.360
 In what we did to develop a school adjustment factor, we had counts that we then compared

01:23:23.360 --> 01:23:27.280
 our current counts to historic counts in the area along Sherman Drive.

01:23:27.280 --> 01:23:32.440
 Interesting, obviously with an evening peak for a development like this that happens outside

01:23:32.440 --> 01:23:35.840
 of school conditions and with after pickup and drop off.

01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:42.000
 So the evening peak was real similar to what the normal school time conditions are.

01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:46.800
 In the morning, we noticed that is about 45% lower than when school is in session.

01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:49.360
 So we applied an adjustment factor.

01:23:49.360 --> 01:23:54.840
 We increased the AM peak hour traffic conditions in the area 45% to account to get it back

01:23:54.840 --> 01:23:59.760
 to normal conditions, which again, it's a common thing we do to apply that seasonal

01:23:59.760 --> 01:24:00.760
 adjustment factor.

01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:05.040
 I know there's a question about a COVID adjustment factor.

01:24:05.040 --> 01:24:09.720
 We discussed this during the scoping of the traffic study with city staff.

01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:13.160
 Based on the traffic volumes and everything that they've been seeing in the area, the

01:24:13.160 --> 01:24:16.560
 traffic volumes had already really returned to pre-COVID conditions.

01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:22.680
 Everyone's kind of getting back to normal operations and so the COVID adjustment factor,

01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:28.560
 which had been done in previous years probably, but it was not required by staff.

01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:33.480
 Also the accuracy of the traffic counts themselves and again, the level of service results, you

01:24:33.480 --> 01:24:37.040
 know, there's been a lot of eyes from professional engineers.

01:24:37.040 --> 01:24:41.960
 I'm a professional traffic operations engineer, been doing this for almost 30 years.

01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:48.040
 It was reviewed and accepted by the city's traffic engineers, also an outside third party

01:24:48.040 --> 01:24:52.480
 traffic engineering consultant, looked at the scope, looked at the results, everything

01:24:52.480 --> 01:24:56.520
 was reviewed and accepted.

01:24:56.520 --> 01:25:04.000
 Also a consideration for why the Agave Ranch traffic was not included, that development

01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:09.200
 was not approved at the time that we were preparing and submitting the TIA, so it was

01:25:09.200 --> 01:25:11.040
 not included.

01:25:11.040 --> 01:25:16.280
 We did include the other planned developments like Stark Farms and Stewart Ridge planned

01:25:16.280 --> 01:25:20.920
 developments in as part of the traffic study, so that was accounted for, but we also included

01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:27.240
 a 2% background growth for the time when the project's going to build out and also the

01:25:27.240 --> 01:25:31.800
 horizon year, so there was significant additional background traffic growth that was accounted

01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:38.040
 for, which included in the PM peak an additional 500 trips during the PM peak, which more than

01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:45.240
 was double the traffic that would have been generated by the Agave Ranch traffic.

01:25:45.240 --> 01:25:51.520
 So another comment on the consideration of football games and the other, the nearby stadium

01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:58.080
 events, something to, you know, we look at this, we talked about this, you know, the

01:25:58.080 --> 01:26:07.220
 frequency of when those events occur and whether that should be used to really drive the recommendations

01:26:07.220 --> 01:26:11.080
 and any type of things that would come out of a traffic study.

01:26:11.080 --> 01:26:15.760
 Those events only really happened about 10 to 15 times throughout the year, and given

01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:21.760
 that infrequency, really the overlap between stadium traffic and the planned development

01:26:21.760 --> 01:26:24.960
 traffic was not a requirement by staff.

01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:32.920
 Important to note that when those types of events happen, in relationship to, when we

01:26:32.920 --> 01:26:38.280
 talk about, let's just talk about the overlap of our peak period and the evening type traffic

01:26:38.280 --> 01:26:42.520
 on it, when an event occurs, especially for football games or things like that, that spread

01:26:42.520 --> 01:26:45.560
 out over several hours prior to the events.

01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:50.960
 The busiest time really happens in that six to seven, right before the seven o'clock game,

01:26:50.960 --> 01:26:56.720
 and that doesn't coincide with the PM peak of the development, which traditionally occurs

01:26:56.720 --> 01:26:58.720
 between five and six.

01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:05.240
 And so, and really the most congested time for any type of game day type of event traffic

01:27:05.240 --> 01:27:08.520
 would happen immediately after games, and that's when that surge of traffic and people

01:27:08.520 --> 01:27:12.880
 leave, because everyone leaves at the same time.

01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:20.720
 So we did look also at the, when those, what's happening and how the management of traffic

01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:23.360
 happens during those game day events.

01:27:23.360 --> 01:27:28.320
 Denton ISD does have a special event traffic management plan.

01:27:28.320 --> 01:27:35.200
 All of the home traffic, they exit to Stewart Road, enter and exit off of Stewart Road,

01:27:35.200 --> 01:27:38.680
 and then the visitor traffic enters and exits off of Sherman Drive.

01:27:38.680 --> 01:27:44.120
 So really, less than half of that traffic is really ever going to be seen on Sherman.

01:27:44.120 --> 01:27:45.360
 So they're doing their best that they can.

01:27:45.360 --> 01:27:49.520
 That's happening outside of the peaks for our development, again, when our traffic is

01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:52.540
 considerably less.

01:27:52.540 --> 01:28:00.200
 Some comments about whether or not traffic related to Hartleafield Road should be included,

01:28:00.200 --> 01:28:05.040
 and that intersection up to the north should be included as part of the TIA.

01:28:05.040 --> 01:28:09.360
 None of the development traffic actually has access to Hartleafield Road, so based on discussions

01:28:09.360 --> 01:28:14.600
 in developing the traffic study scope, it was not included, and we talked to city staff

01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:18.600
 about that, and we all agreed that that should not be included.

01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:26.440
 Similar, there were some comments about site distance relative to both at Hartleafield

01:28:26.440 --> 01:28:31.640
 Road and the conditions up there, but along Sherman Drive, and we wanted to talk and provide

01:28:31.640 --> 01:28:36.360
 you some information about site distance at our proposed drive, the main northernmost

01:28:36.360 --> 01:28:40.000
 drive along Sherman Drive.

01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:45.520
 All of the driveway locations meet all of the requirements for both TXDOT, federal,

01:28:45.520 --> 01:28:48.960
 and also City of Denton transportation criteria.

01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:53.880
 The actual required site distance is 500 feet, and you can see that distance from the northernmost

01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:57.480
 drive is that yellow marker there.

01:28:57.480 --> 01:29:02.800
 This gives you a view of looking at that point up the road to that yellow point, and you

01:29:02.800 --> 01:29:06.240
 can see all the vehicles that are coming in this direction.

01:29:06.240 --> 01:29:10.640
 We also took another vantage point of right at that northernmost drive looking north,

01:29:10.640 --> 01:29:13.880
 and as you can see up there, there's that warning sign.

01:29:13.880 --> 01:29:22.040
 That's actually located right at Hartleafield Road, and that's further north than the actual

01:29:22.040 --> 01:29:26.820
 required site distance, so if you look at that, that's another 150 to 200 feet further

01:29:26.820 --> 01:29:32.240
 down the road, and we can see that sign, so there's more than adequate site distance

01:29:32.240 --> 01:29:34.080
 at the northernmost drive.

01:29:34.080 --> 01:29:41.840
 There's also looking south, which is almost 600 feet down to the interchange at 288.

01:29:41.840 --> 01:29:45.680
 Again, that exceeds all the site distance requirement.

01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:48.880
 That driveway, you've got really good site distance in both directions, so you can see

01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:54.320
 anyone, so you can be able to get in and out onto Sherman Drive.

01:29:54.320 --> 01:29:59.720
 Speaking of the driveways themselves along Sherman Drive, we had city staff supported

01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:01.560
 two driveways along Sherman Drive.

01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:06.960
 It makes sense from how the development will ultimately develop.

01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:12.480
 All driveways exceed the city's arterial driveway spacing criteria.

01:30:12.480 --> 01:30:17.640
 As Amy mentioned, we are providing right turn lanes at both driveways, and the southernmost

01:30:17.640 --> 01:30:22.000
 drive will be constructed as a right-in, right-out, and that's going to fit real well with the

01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:26.840
 future roadway conditions as being a four-lane divided, where there would be a median opening,

01:30:26.840 --> 01:30:30.840
 so you'd have right-in, right-out conditions.

01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:35.640
 The southern driveway, though, will require variance approval by TxDOT, and we're continuing

01:30:35.640 --> 01:30:41.440
 to work with TxDOT to ... What we did as part of this, we found the optimal location based

01:30:41.440 --> 01:30:45.520
 on spacing, both from 288 and the northern drive.

01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:54.880
 And then the driveway along 288, that meets all TxDOT driveway spacing criteria.

01:30:54.880 --> 01:31:00.880
 And Amy mentioned multimodal access, bikes and pedestrians on the area, bicycle and pedestrian

01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:02.560
 safety along Sherman Drive.

01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:06.960
 It's important we understand that, and again, we're continuing to have those conversations

01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:12.880
 about how we can make accommodations and explore different types of off-street bicycle and

01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:17.360
 pedestrian facilities to improve safety along Sherman.

01:31:17.360 --> 01:31:18.360
 Thank you.

01:31:18.360 --> 01:31:19.360
 Thank you.

01:31:19.360 --> 01:31:26.400
 I'm going to go very quickly, it looks like we've got less than three minutes.

01:31:26.400 --> 01:31:33.560
 Brian Grant with JPI 600, Las Clienas Boulevard, not very much time, so I ask a lot of questions,

01:31:33.560 --> 01:31:37.200
 and I answer them for you, but quick history about who JPI is, what we're going to build.

01:31:37.200 --> 01:31:40.960
 I've got a lot more pictures than words, because words are harder for me, because I'm not as

01:31:40.960 --> 01:31:46.440
 smart as the other Brian, but JPI have been around for 33 years, we're headquartered in

01:31:46.440 --> 01:31:51.280
 DFW, we've been in Irving, the existence of our company, multifamily is what we do, it's

01:31:51.280 --> 01:31:55.280
 what we've always done, we're the most active developer in DFW, and have been for the last

01:31:55.280 --> 01:32:02.520
 seven years, so we know the market well from the area and like developing in the community.

01:32:02.520 --> 01:32:05.960
 Picture some of our exteriors, I know Amy showed the rendering earlier, but just high

01:32:05.960 --> 01:32:09.600
 level, lots of nice materials, lots of glass.

01:32:09.600 --> 01:32:15.680
 Each exterior is unique to the sub market that we go to, we try to design to the area,

01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:20.040
 there's not a cookie cutter elevation that we use, we're very intentional about how we

01:32:20.040 --> 01:32:22.720
 design these communities.

01:32:22.720 --> 01:32:27.440
 Clubhouse shot, some examples there, you can see lots of double volume space, lots of glass,

01:32:27.440 --> 01:32:32.520
 high end finish outs, we'll hire interior designers, we have several firms we work with

01:32:32.520 --> 01:32:37.920
 who are very intentional with their design, and they're on top of design trends, and

01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:43.560
 know what's gonna be timeless and look good and mesh well, and so we spend effort on making

01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:48.660
 sure that these are nice spaces, good gathering spaces for the residents, it feels more boutique

01:32:48.660 --> 01:32:52.560
 hotel than what most people would think of when you think of apartment complex, I think

01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:56.760
 there's sometimes a negative connotation with that word, but it's not what we're building

01:32:56.760 --> 01:33:00.440
 and not what we're in the business to do.

01:33:00.440 --> 01:33:04.280
 Unit amenities, we've got some JPI standards that we adhere to, 10 foot ceiling, stainless

01:33:04.280 --> 01:33:08.040
 steel appliances, hard surface flooring, gonna go quickly through those, but you can see

01:33:08.040 --> 01:33:12.360
 it's a high quality, you know, granite countertops, things that you would see more in a new single

01:33:12.360 --> 01:33:15.720
 family home, and good quality materials there.

01:33:15.720 --> 01:33:18.600
 Here's the project that we've most recently completed, kind of what have you done for

01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:23.520
 me lately, this is down 35 and Haltem City, this is the clubhouse, you can see big expansive

01:33:23.520 --> 01:33:29.840
 space, vaulted ceilings, big open area, lots of glass there along the outside of the building,

01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:34.320
 again, another shot in the inside demonstration kitchen, we'll host resident events here,

01:33:34.320 --> 01:33:38.920
 we had master's watch parties at a lot of our communities this past weekend, and so

01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:43.320
 they're very intentionally designed spaces, there's another picture, cool arcade games

01:33:43.320 --> 01:33:47.240
 and intentional big screen TVs, 30 seconds.

01:33:47.240 --> 01:33:51.320
 Fitness center is a big deal, we have a minimum of 2,000 square foot fitness centers in all

01:33:51.320 --> 01:33:55.800
 our communities, our residents use this as their primary fitness facility, so make sure

01:33:55.800 --> 01:34:01.440
 we have, you know, top of line equipment there, 20 seconds, yoga room, this is units, two

01:34:01.440 --> 01:34:07.040
 different schemes we'll always do, demographics we always get asked about, so for our average

01:34:07.040 --> 01:34:12.320
 income 115,000, average age 32, we expect about 30 kids, again, come back and ask if

01:34:12.320 --> 01:34:17.360
 you want to know more about that, and then one to quickly show is, if I can, rendering

01:34:17.360 --> 01:34:18.360
 versus actual.

01:34:18.360 --> 01:34:19.680
 Yeah, go ahead and finish, it's fine.

01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:22.800
 Okay, we kind of get asked, and I'm happy to go through demographics and things if you

01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:25.440
 have questions on that, but we get asked a lot, kind of how do I know you're going to

01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:31.920
 build what you are showing us tonight, and so hopefully the track record is evidence

01:34:31.920 --> 01:34:37.280
 of that as well as these last two slides where this is a project that was in Gravevine, the

01:34:37.280 --> 01:34:42.200
 top is a rendering that we showed during the zoning process for that community, and the

01:34:42.200 --> 01:34:47.560
 bottom is what was built and is now existing today, I'm biased, but I think the southern

01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:51.320
 picture looks better than the rendering itself, the architect that did the rendering is actually

01:34:51.320 --> 01:34:56.280
 here, funny enough, so not to knock on his rendering skills, but I think the actual building

01:34:56.280 --> 01:35:02.160
 turned out better than the rendering, and then here's another one in Irving, that same

01:35:02.160 --> 01:35:06.080
 concept, the top is one we've shown in zoning during council, the bottom is what exists

01:35:06.080 --> 01:35:11.800
 today, identical, strikingly similar, even the grid patterns on that kind of rooftop

01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:16.360
 amenity there exists, and actually was this architect as well who's doing this project

01:35:16.360 --> 01:35:20.440
 here, so funnily enough, the examples were his design, but I've got a lot of team here

01:35:20.440 --> 01:35:23.620
 to hopefully answer questions, and I know I went fast to try to stick to the clock,

01:35:23.620 --> 01:35:26.160
 so I'm happy to answer more questions if you have.

01:35:26.160 --> 01:35:27.160
 Thank you.

01:35:27.160 --> 01:35:29.120
 We do have a question for you, Commissioner Smith.

01:35:29.120 --> 01:35:30.120
 Thank you, Chair.

01:35:30.120 --> 01:35:36.000
 How many horizontal multi-family properties has JPI worked on, I guess you had 51 apartment

01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:40.840
 complexes, is this your first, 10th horizontal multi-family project?

01:35:40.840 --> 01:35:46.360
 It's new for us, this is our fifth, so it's kind of a new product offering in the market

01:35:46.360 --> 01:35:55.160
 in general, so this would be the fifth, we've got one in Anna, McKinney, and Fort Worth,

01:35:55.160 --> 01:35:58.300
 this would be, yeah, it is a new one for us.

01:35:58.300 --> 01:36:00.960
 Average rental rates, I know that's a hard thing to look at when you're talking about

01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:06.400
 a zoning conversation, so this PD and this guy have a site plan put into there, what

01:36:06.400 --> 01:36:09.320
 numbers, I didn't see those in there, I saw your average income, I saw your average age,

01:36:09.320 --> 01:36:10.960
 what are your rental rates you're looking at?

01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:17.440
 Yeah, so for the stacked flats, the three-story buildings, the average size is $885, and the

01:36:17.440 --> 01:36:24.200
 average rent is $1,696, so just under $1,700 a month, and then for that SFR, the horizontal,

01:36:24.200 --> 01:36:29.200
 I call it SFR, single-family rental, the average size there is $1,300, and the average rent

01:36:29.200 --> 01:36:33.880
 will be about $2,350, and that's, we have market studies, it's not just pulling the

01:36:33.880 --> 01:36:36.080
 numbers in the market studies that kind of go into that.

01:36:36.080 --> 01:36:37.080
 That's true.

01:36:37.080 --> 01:36:38.080
 All right, thank you.

01:36:38.080 --> 01:36:39.080
 Yes, sir.

01:36:39.080 --> 01:36:40.080
 Anybody else?

01:36:40.080 --> 01:36:43.760
 I don't have any questions at this moment, but we may call you up later.

01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:44.760
 Thank you.

01:36:44.760 --> 01:36:51.640
 Angie, I've got a question for you before I get into calling the public hearing.

01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:52.640
 Just want an overview.

01:36:52.640 --> 01:36:59.880
 A lot was mentioned in discussion with the TIA and what staff required.

01:36:59.880 --> 01:37:04.320
 Can you run me through the process and how those decisions are made on staff of what

01:37:04.320 --> 01:37:06.200
 the scope of the TIA is?

01:37:06.200 --> 01:37:10.480
 I could, but I do have a better equipped individual.

01:37:10.480 --> 01:37:11.480
 That will work.

01:37:11.480 --> 01:37:13.840
 Who is Karina, so I'm going to have to pass it off.

01:37:13.840 --> 01:37:14.840
 That sounds good.

01:37:14.840 --> 01:37:15.840
 Thank you.

01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:16.840
 Hi, Karina.

01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:17.840
 Hi.

01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:18.840
 Good evening.

01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:25.160
 Karina Maldonado, Transportation Planner for the City of Denton.

01:37:25.160 --> 01:37:30.640
 So I can speak to our TIA process as of today.

01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:34.800
 It is mostly similar, slightly different than in the past.

01:37:34.800 --> 01:37:39.280
 We are trying to improve our processes and procedures in the City of Denton to be more

01:37:39.280 --> 01:37:41.160
 transparent, more accountable.

01:37:41.160 --> 01:37:47.220
 So for traffic impact analysis, there are a set of criteria within the transportation

01:37:47.220 --> 01:37:51.960
 criteria manual that indicates when that TIA is triggered.

01:37:51.960 --> 01:37:57.680
 Once it's triggered, we do have a TIA scoping meeting that is intended to be held with the

01:37:57.680 --> 01:38:05.440
 city's traffic engineer and/or designee of the city engineer, which at this time is Development

01:38:05.440 --> 01:38:06.440
 Services.

01:38:06.440 --> 01:38:12.440
 So that would be Transportation Planning and our consultant, HR Green, that does our off-site

01:38:12.440 --> 01:38:13.560
 reviews.

01:38:13.560 --> 01:38:20.160
 So within that scoping meeting, staff looks at a certain radius of the site, dependent

01:38:20.160 --> 01:38:22.200
 on how many trips are generated.

01:38:22.200 --> 01:38:23.680
 So there's a sort of threshold.

01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:26.400
 There's an analysis category, if you will.

01:38:26.400 --> 01:38:32.280
 So based on the number of trips, the number of peak hour trips, it would determine the

01:38:32.280 --> 01:38:38.600
 radius of the boundary, so whether that's a half mile, mile and a half, two mile.

01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:43.880
 It can be increased by staff based on context of the area, so it's a staff determination

01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:48.460
 as to whether we need to make that two miles or less.

01:38:48.460 --> 01:38:55.880
 That determination is based on environmental things like, I should say, site characteristics.

01:38:55.880 --> 01:39:01.200
 So if staff is aware of safety issues, we can make adjustments, but for the most part,

01:39:01.200 --> 01:39:02.960
 everything is outlined in the criteria manual.

01:39:02.960 --> 01:39:07.320
 So we look at growth patterns, perimeter street improvements.

01:39:07.320 --> 01:39:13.160
 We ask for studies of intersections within the study boundaries, so signalized and unsignalized.

01:39:13.160 --> 01:39:19.320
 We ask them to analyze those that we believe are operating at a lower level of service,

01:39:19.320 --> 01:39:25.360
 or we know that there's significant traffic issues, resident concerns.

01:39:25.360 --> 01:39:31.040
 So there's an outline process in our transportation criteria manual that outlines everything that

01:39:31.040 --> 01:39:33.260
 should be within it.

01:39:33.260 --> 01:39:37.360
 What we do in those scoping meetings is have that discussion with the traffic engineer

01:39:37.360 --> 01:39:42.280
 to ensure that the scope is well within the proportionality of the development.

01:39:42.280 --> 01:39:48.880
 So we're not asking for two or three intersections away from the site.

01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:52.360
 It has to be proportional to the site's traffic.

01:39:52.360 --> 01:39:57.440
 So it's sort of a negotiation process, but most of the information is already outlined

01:39:57.440 --> 01:40:03.320
 in the transportation criteria manual, and those criteria manuals are adopted by council

01:40:03.320 --> 01:40:05.520
 and updated annually.

01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:09.160
 So it's a group discussion of how that's done.

01:40:09.160 --> 01:40:13.440
 So you started off the answer with, this is how it's done now.

01:40:13.440 --> 01:40:15.440
 Do you know how it was done with this development?

01:40:15.440 --> 01:40:16.440
 Did it change?

01:40:16.440 --> 01:40:19.000
 The process in the past was the same.

01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:23.240
 The only difference, I would say, is the documentation of the scope.

01:40:23.240 --> 01:40:27.080
 Most of it was a conversation, here's what we'd like to do.

01:40:27.080 --> 01:40:31.280
 There was no formalization of the documentation to say, here's the approved scope and let's

01:40:31.280 --> 01:40:33.280
 move forward.

01:40:33.280 --> 01:40:38.920
 So that is the process that SAF is implementing now, to formally document and stamp an approved

01:40:38.920 --> 01:40:43.960
 TIA scope before you go to a TIA application.

01:40:43.960 --> 01:40:44.960
 Thank you very much.

01:40:44.960 --> 01:40:48.160
 I appreciate the information.

01:40:48.160 --> 01:40:51.500
 We'll get started on some of these cards that are in front of me now.

01:40:51.500 --> 01:40:55.560
 I will invite Brian Bentley.

01:40:55.560 --> 01:41:03.400
 Hi, if you'll state your name and address, your time will begin.

01:41:03.400 --> 01:41:04.400
 Yes, hello.

01:41:04.400 --> 01:41:05.400
 Thank you.

01:41:05.400 --> 01:41:09.840
 I'm Brian Bentley, and I used to sit here on the PNZ when this property was originally

01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:16.880
 rezoned from agriculture to commercial, and I think you all need to know the history and

01:41:16.880 --> 01:41:21.760
 background of what was told to the PNZ at that time, and it's amazing how nervous you

01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:26.440
 can be on this side of the microphone and you're nice and calm over there, but anyway.

01:41:26.440 --> 01:41:32.920
 So this was probably about 10 years ago, I want to say, when it occurred, the family

01:41:32.920 --> 01:41:36.280
 that owned the property, it was agriculture.

01:41:36.280 --> 01:41:41.600
 It was an elderly woman and her children, adult children, came up and asked it to be

01:41:41.600 --> 01:41:47.160
 rezoned to commercial because they could not sell it under the ag zoning.

01:41:47.160 --> 01:41:56.920
 I believe it was an estate at that time, and we did rezone it, but we did it based on some

01:41:56.920 --> 01:42:03.680
 of the information that city staff gives us, and one of those things was PS Aurora, who

01:42:03.680 --> 01:42:10.640
 was traffic engineer, came before us and said, "Hartley Field Road will have to be closed.

01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:16.680
 We will close it at 455, we will move it north, it has to align with Long Avenue," I believe

01:42:16.680 --> 01:42:22.120
 that's Long up there by the school anyway, "and there will be a traffic light put in

01:42:22.120 --> 01:42:23.120
 there."

01:42:23.120 --> 01:42:29.360
 Well, obviously, this plan doesn't have anything about it.

01:42:29.360 --> 01:42:32.840
 I use Hartley Field Road a lot.

01:42:32.840 --> 01:42:38.240
 I can tell you personally, I have been scared sitting at that stop sign at Hartley Field.

01:42:38.240 --> 01:42:43.240
 You cannot see the traffic come up the hill.

01:42:43.240 --> 01:42:45.840
 Some of us out there, we're still agriculture.

01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:49.920
 We haul trailers, long trailers, cattle trailers.

01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:54.160
 It's scary trying to pull a trailer across there at that intersection.

01:42:54.160 --> 01:43:02.320
 I do have problems with this idea of all these curb cuts and traffic and stuff, but let me

01:43:02.320 --> 01:43:07.760
 back up a little bit and present what happened during the PNZ.

01:43:07.760 --> 01:43:15.840
 The proposed purchaser, if I remember right, was a veterinarian who was a neighbor.

01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:22.760
 There's a veterinarian type complex on Hartley Field Road.

01:43:22.760 --> 01:43:30.720
 The city at that time was promoting this idea of small commercial places like pizzerias,

01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:36.440
 cleaners, dry cleaners and stuff, so you wouldn't have to travel so far to get those services.

01:43:36.440 --> 01:43:41.520
 That was kind of what was proposed for that corner.

01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:46.280
 The traffic was supposed to come in off the new Hartley Field and come in the backside.

01:43:46.280 --> 01:43:50.840
 Now, you say that's too far away, it doesn't happen.

01:43:50.840 --> 01:43:52.560
 Well, look at Razor Ranch.

01:43:52.560 --> 01:43:57.720
 The traffic comes in on the backside on many of those big corners at Razor Ranch.

01:43:57.720 --> 01:44:07.320
 Let's see, I got my notes here.

01:44:07.320 --> 01:44:10.600
 It wasn't supposed to be that intensive a commercial.

01:44:10.600 --> 01:44:15.600
 Now, when we rezoned it, we rezoned it to the lowest classification of commercial that

01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:17.560
 we had at the time.

01:44:17.560 --> 01:44:22.960
 Then of course, the DDC has went through another rewrite and now you call it SC and say, "Oh,

01:44:22.960 --> 01:44:25.240
 we can put all these apartments in there."

01:44:25.240 --> 01:44:33.140
 No, that was not our intent and I can tell you it was not our intent because at the time,

01:44:33.140 --> 01:44:34.440
 we were very concerned.

01:44:34.440 --> 01:44:40.560
 The city asked for a ratio of apartments versus single families in the city of Denton and

01:44:40.560 --> 01:44:49.240
 they wanted to keep a balance, so apartments were never discussed at that rezoning.

01:44:49.240 --> 01:44:52.960
 I know economic times have changed and there's a lot of stuff.

01:44:52.960 --> 01:44:56.240
 Speaking of economics, I don't buy this.

01:44:56.240 --> 01:45:01.280
 Everybody's making $100,000 and can pay $2,400 a month rent.

01:45:01.280 --> 01:45:02.280
 I'm a landlord.

01:45:02.280 --> 01:45:03.560
 I got over 20 units.

01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:07.360
 I know what people make and what the average person does.

01:45:07.360 --> 01:45:12.560
 I would warn you about Woodhaven in Fort Worth when they built all the multifamily in one

01:45:12.560 --> 01:45:13.560
 cluster.

01:45:13.560 --> 01:45:19.280
 I know it sounds good because there's all the multifamily to the south side, but today

01:45:19.280 --> 01:45:25.720
 in the Wall Street Journal, 3200 apartments were repossessed from one property owner.

01:45:25.720 --> 01:45:27.680
 It happens.

01:45:27.680 --> 01:45:33.280
 Woodhaven in Fort Worth was so bad, the city had to come in and start tearing down apartments.

01:45:33.280 --> 01:45:38.980
 When you get too many apartments in one area, when a bad landlord gets in there and stuff

01:45:38.980 --> 01:45:43.920
 starts going south, it drags the rest of them down and that's what happened in Woodhaven.

01:45:43.920 --> 01:45:47.640
 I can talk to you in depth about that, but my time's up.

01:45:47.640 --> 01:45:49.480
 I appreciate you coming.

01:45:49.480 --> 01:45:50.480
 Thanks.

01:45:50.480 --> 01:45:59.600
 Just to clarify something that was stated, the current zoning on it is multi-family is

01:45:59.600 --> 01:46:03.240
 not allowed by right there, it's allowed with an SUP, or in this case, they're actually

01:46:03.240 --> 01:46:08.200
 requesting a zoning change to this PDMN.

01:46:08.200 --> 01:46:11.080
 Just wanted to clarify that statement.

01:46:11.080 --> 01:46:39.600
 Next card I have is Bridget Marshall.

01:46:39.600 --> 01:46:42.280
 Thank you for allowing me to speak again this evening.

01:46:42.280 --> 01:46:43.280
 Of course.

01:46:43.280 --> 01:46:49.120
 I want to reiterate how serious the traffic safety issues are in this area and why a new

01:46:49.120 --> 01:46:53.720
 traffic impact analysis is needed and the PD be denied.

01:46:53.720 --> 01:47:21.960
 And Angie, you might just want to stand by just in case she needs further help.

01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:22.960
 Thank you.

01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:31.720
 So this is an aerial view with some of the traffic issues, both loop 288 and FM 428 Sherman

01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:37.400
 driver text dot roadways with FM 428 being expanded eventually to four to six lanes.

01:47:37.400 --> 01:47:39.600
 Ms. Marshall, can you speak into the microphone?

01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:40.600
 There we go.

01:47:40.600 --> 01:47:41.600
 Thank you.

01:47:41.600 --> 01:47:42.600
 Thank you.

01:47:42.600 --> 01:47:43.600
 Appreciate it.

01:47:43.600 --> 01:47:54.520
 So here you can see the crest of the hill and right there is a large Botania bush.

01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:59.560
 Driveways one and two do not comply with text dots, minimum access spacing of 360 feet for

01:47:59.560 --> 01:48:02.240
 a 45 mile per hour road.

01:48:02.240 --> 01:48:07.920
 The traffic will impact Hartley Field Road, which is right here.

01:48:07.920 --> 01:48:14.000
 This is the main ingress egress for many residents who live in this area.

01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:19.280
 Signal analysis should be conducted for this area due to the amount of traffic being generated,

01:48:19.280 --> 01:48:26.080
 not just by this development, but the other three large developments that have been approved,

01:48:26.080 --> 01:48:34.720
 Stark Farms, Stewart Ridge and Agave Ranch.

01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:48.360
 Agave Ranch preliminary plat was approved on August 19th, 2020 and should have been included

01:48:48.360 --> 01:48:52.480
 in the TIA, even though the final plat was held up by engineering issues.

01:48:52.480 --> 01:48:59.280
 The 2% growth factor in the TIA should account for background traffic only and not for another

01:48:59.280 --> 01:49:03.000
 large housing development like Agave Ranch.

01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:10.560
 And Agave Ranch is going to generate about 2,500 plus car trips per day.

01:49:10.560 --> 01:49:18.200
 And then up here is Long Road and as far as what was said in the supplement about the

01:49:18.200 --> 01:49:24.720
 games at CH Collins, those were done actually two years ago according to the assistant athletic

01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:28.120
 director that I spoke to the other day.

01:49:28.120 --> 01:49:32.760
 Last year they reverted back to allowing people to enter from any direction before or after

01:49:32.760 --> 01:49:33.960
 the games.

01:49:33.960 --> 01:49:39.880
 He forecasted only one to two big games where they might use controlled traffic pattern.

01:49:39.880 --> 01:49:48.400
 The admin assistant told me that there are on average 26 events per year.

01:49:48.400 --> 01:49:53.120
 And as you can see there are no, and they ve pointed out that there are no crosswalks

01:49:53.120 --> 01:49:58.360
 or sidewalks except for the section in front of the water park.

01:49:58.360 --> 01:50:07.800
 Okay, Angie, how do I get back to the next one?

01:50:07.800 --> 01:50:12.120
 Okay, you want me to toggle.

01:50:12.120 --> 01:50:18.640
 So this one is from the supplemental memorandum which you ve just seen earlier, but it s misleading

01:50:18.640 --> 01:50:21.440
 because the sight line is actually much shorter.

01:50:21.440 --> 01:50:26.680
 Remember I showed you that Fotenia and the crest of the hill is right here, okay?

01:50:26.680 --> 01:50:28.600
 Right up here.

01:50:28.600 --> 01:50:35.160
 And you ll see that in the next photo from the supplemental memorandum.

01:50:35.160 --> 01:50:43.000
 And driveway also down here, this driveway one is also situated farther north and shown

01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:52.480
 in the supplement according to the development plan if you were to look at that.

01:50:52.480 --> 01:50:56.480
 So here is the other photo from the supplemental plan.

01:50:56.480 --> 01:51:02.640
 And here s that Fotenia shrub, okay?

01:51:02.640 --> 01:51:05.120
 So this is the crest of the hill.

01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:07.720
 May I continue?

01:51:07.720 --> 01:51:12.760
 Yeah, go ahead, we ll give you a couple more minutes with all the technology interruptions.

01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:13.760
 All right.

01:51:13.760 --> 01:51:18.920
 So a field observation is insufficient for determining traffic impacts, especially for

01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:22.400
 a hill with two driveways accessing it.

01:51:22.400 --> 01:51:27.480
 A visual evaluation and photos do not provide empirical factual data.

01:51:27.480 --> 01:51:32.520
 A detailed full sight distance engineering evaluation should be required showing all

01:51:32.520 --> 01:51:39.440
 values applicable formulas used and the results for each using text dots criteria.

01:51:39.440 --> 01:51:44.040
 More importantly, an engineering vertical sight distance evaluation should also be done

01:51:44.040 --> 01:51:52.320
 to see what restrictions the crest of the hill has on each case.

01:51:52.320 --> 01:52:00.600
 And this just happens to show that corner and it s way up here in the corner, that driveway.

01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:02.400
 All right.

01:52:02.400 --> 01:52:09.560
 And so this is from our field observations and this is looking north from about where

01:52:09.560 --> 01:52:15.440
 the driveway one would be and you can see this car coming over the crest of the hill

01:52:15.440 --> 01:52:24.400
 and this Fotenia shrub right behind it.

01:52:24.400 --> 01:52:32.780
 And now this is a view of at the Hartley Field Road intersection, what we see and the properties

01:52:32.780 --> 01:52:43.840
 down here below the crest of the hill and to the left, okay?

01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:48.120
 Driveway one sits below this hill and it's out of sight.

01:52:48.120 --> 01:52:55.240
 So a left turn at driveway one is going to create a very hazardous condition turning

01:52:55.240 --> 01:53:02.040
 left into southbound, into this southbound FM 428 traffic, especially for inexperienced

01:53:02.040 --> 01:53:06.620
 high school drivers coming from La Grone Academy or CH Collins Stadium.

01:53:06.620 --> 01:53:14.280
 This is going to be especially dangerous at night.

01:53:14.280 --> 01:53:16.960
 Okay.

01:53:16.960 --> 01:53:23.560
 And this is a view of the crest of the hill and there's actually two crests in this area.

01:53:23.560 --> 01:53:26.720
 One's north and one's south of Hartley Field Road.

01:53:26.720 --> 01:53:33.800
 And this is the one, this is Long Road right here.

01:53:33.800 --> 01:53:37.820
 Okay.

01:53:37.820 --> 01:53:44.040
 This came from the TIA Exhibit A and the access spacings and lane lengths for driveways one

01:53:44.040 --> 01:53:50.520
 and two on FM 428 will be to City of Denton standards, but driveway three will be to TXDOT

01:53:50.520 --> 01:53:51.520
 standards.

01:53:51.520 --> 01:53:57.040
 Both are TXDOT roads, therefore all three access spacings and lane lengths should be

01:53:57.040 --> 01:54:01.080
 required to adhere to TXDOT standards, which are more stringent.

01:54:01.080 --> 01:54:05.200
 I'm probably going to have to ask you to wrap it up there Ms. Marshall.

01:54:05.200 --> 01:54:06.200
 Okay.

01:54:06.200 --> 01:54:07.200
 I appreciate it.

01:54:07.200 --> 01:54:10.200
 Any questions from the commission?

01:54:10.200 --> 01:54:12.000
 May I continue?

01:54:12.000 --> 01:54:16.640
 No, I'm going to have to ask you to stop, we've given you a couple extra minutes, but

01:54:16.640 --> 01:54:19.600
 thank you for sharing your thoughts and your visuals.

01:54:19.600 --> 01:54:21.280
 Can I summarize?

01:54:21.280 --> 01:54:23.440
 You got like one final statement?

01:54:23.440 --> 01:54:30.640
 Yeah, there are just many traffic safety issues and that I haven't even covered on here that

01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:32.400
 need to be taken into consideration.

01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:37.120
 This is an extremely poor location for this type of development due to the proximity of

01:54:37.120 --> 01:54:43.080
 the hill and the intersection and two heavily trafficked roads, TXDOT roads.

01:54:43.080 --> 01:54:44.080
 Okay.

01:54:44.080 --> 01:54:48.160
 So please deny this PD and require an updated TIA.

01:54:48.160 --> 01:54:50.160
 I appreciate it.

01:54:50.160 --> 01:54:54.920
 Thank you very much Ms. Marshall.

01:54:54.920 --> 01:54:55.920
 Appreciate it.

01:54:55.920 --> 01:54:56.920
 Okay.

01:54:56.920 --> 01:55:08.280
 The next person on the card I have here is Travis Eckmark.

01:55:08.280 --> 01:55:09.280
 Good evening.

01:55:09.280 --> 01:55:10.280
 You'll state your name and address.

01:55:10.280 --> 01:55:11.280
 Your time will begin.

01:55:11.280 --> 01:55:12.280
 Good evening.

01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:13.280
 My name is Travis Eckmark.

01:55:13.280 --> 01:55:14.280
 I live on 405056 Hartley Field Road.

01:55:14.280 --> 01:55:17.280
 I am a member of the steering committee for the Small Area Plan.

01:55:17.280 --> 01:55:22.640
 I just want to kind of address a couple things that I saw with the presentation from these

01:55:22.640 --> 01:55:23.640
 gentlemen.

01:55:23.640 --> 01:55:30.400
 I first want to iterate again that the traffic is crazy there.

01:55:30.400 --> 01:55:35.040
 Getting in and out of that is a race and I and my wife have agreed to never cross over

01:55:35.040 --> 01:55:38.600
 from Hartley on 423 when we're taking our children.

01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:42.320
 That's how bad that traffic is.

01:55:42.320 --> 01:55:45.720
 I taught at Irving High School for seven years.

01:55:45.720 --> 01:55:48.800
 I've been to more football games than I care to count.

01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:55.840
 I agree that the football games start at seven but our most precious cargo, our children

01:55:55.840 --> 01:56:00.440
 that play the games, that cheer the games, that do the band, they get there at five.

01:56:00.440 --> 01:56:03.000
 They don't get there at seven, they get there at five.

01:56:03.000 --> 01:56:09.800
 So taking that path that I won't take my kids with, we're asking our children to take that

01:56:09.800 --> 01:56:16.880
 path with more congestion right now at a point that I think is almost negligent and irresponsible

01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:17.880
 on our part.

01:56:17.880 --> 01:56:21.440
 There has to be something done to keep that from happening.

01:56:21.440 --> 01:56:23.440
 It's negligent.

01:56:23.440 --> 01:56:26.840
 I also want to talk about the bike paths.

01:56:26.840 --> 01:56:30.320
 I saw that we acknowledge that there are bikers here.

01:56:30.320 --> 01:56:32.120
 We acknowledge that there should be paths.

01:56:32.120 --> 01:56:33.120
 We have no plan.

01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:37.780
 Again, I think it's negligent for us to go and say and approve this without generating

01:56:37.780 --> 01:56:39.960
 a plan for that.

01:56:39.960 --> 01:56:43.600
 I'm not saying that a plan can't be conducted, I'm not saying that a plan can't be made.

01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:44.600
 We have no plan.

01:56:44.600 --> 01:56:49.160
 We're just, hey, we're going to make a plan at some point.

01:56:49.160 --> 01:56:51.280
 That seems wrong to do that.

01:56:51.280 --> 01:56:55.920
 I don't see how that's feasible for us to approve.

01:56:55.920 --> 01:57:00.360
 I lived in Frisco from 2012 to 2016.

01:57:00.360 --> 01:57:03.720
 I was there for all of that.

01:57:03.720 --> 01:57:10.640
 The way this happens is we generate one section of development, then we generate one after

01:57:10.640 --> 01:57:11.640
 that.

01:57:11.640 --> 01:57:15.440
 The seeding development does not account for the next one.

01:57:15.440 --> 01:57:17.080
 It just doesn't.

01:57:17.080 --> 01:57:18.880
 How do we account for that?

01:57:18.880 --> 01:57:22.920
 What we do is we plan for the roads for the first one, and then the second one comes along.

01:57:22.920 --> 01:57:24.960
 The roads aren't big enough.

01:57:24.960 --> 01:57:27.240
 We talked about Agatha, we talked about all this stuff.

01:57:27.240 --> 01:57:29.720
 We all know the situation going on with Carter Ranch.

01:57:29.720 --> 01:57:36.280
 We all know that is coming up with proposed 1,000, 1,100, 1,200 new homes.

01:57:36.280 --> 01:57:38.160
 Has anybody accounted for those homes?

01:57:38.160 --> 01:57:39.160
 No.

01:57:39.160 --> 01:57:43.680
 I have not heard that mentioned once.

01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:47.760
 That development is going to dwarf whatever we're talking about here.

01:57:47.760 --> 01:57:49.320
 Again, negligent.

01:57:49.320 --> 01:57:51.440
 I don't think that that is feasible.

01:57:51.440 --> 01:57:56.380
 I also want to talk a little bit about the small area plan that we're saying we regretfully

01:57:56.380 --> 01:57:59.040
 have not been able to be participating in.

01:57:59.040 --> 01:58:04.880
 The people that I talked to, they don't know which of these sessions to latch onto.

01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:08.200
 When we talked about we reached out to the dentonites, we reached out to them, there's

01:58:08.200 --> 01:58:13.120
 so many of these that nobody knows what to do, but what they do know, and what the turnout

01:58:13.120 --> 01:58:18.500
 at that workshop has proven, they do know that that small area plan is where they need

01:58:18.500 --> 01:58:20.960
 to hear the voices heard.

01:58:20.960 --> 01:58:25.360
 You go look at those pictures from that, it's clear what dentonites want and do not want

01:58:25.360 --> 01:58:26.360
 from this area.

01:58:26.360 --> 01:58:29.720
 I think not accounting for that is also negligent.

01:58:29.720 --> 01:58:39.000
 I also want to talk a little bit about how we as denton view ourselves as a county, as

01:58:39.000 --> 01:58:40.200
 a city.

01:58:40.200 --> 01:58:42.360
 What is our architecture?

01:58:42.360 --> 01:58:45.160
 What is our essence?

01:58:45.160 --> 01:58:51.660
 The way this worked in Frisco is we let developers come and dictate that for us.

01:58:51.660 --> 01:58:53.080
 We had no say.

01:58:53.080 --> 01:58:54.700
 What does it mean to be denton?

01:58:54.700 --> 01:58:58.920
 Is it a square apartment house that we think some architect that doesn't live here is going

01:58:58.920 --> 01:59:00.280
 to dictate upon us?

01:59:00.280 --> 01:59:02.820
 That is inevitably how this works.

01:59:02.820 --> 01:59:07.720
 We have no plan on this, but like I said, dentonites have put their weight behind the

01:59:07.720 --> 01:59:12.760
 small area plan, and we believe that the city of Denton is going to listen to us when we

01:59:12.760 --> 01:59:14.400
 say these things.

01:59:14.400 --> 01:59:17.600
 We can talk about all these architectural plans, they look nice.

01:59:17.600 --> 01:59:20.700
 I do think that they look nice, but is that Denton?

01:59:20.700 --> 01:59:25.520
 Is that what we as dentonites want that to be?

01:59:25.520 --> 01:59:26.520
 That's really all I have.

01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:27.520
 Thank you very much.

01:59:27.520 --> 01:59:32.000
 Thank you.

01:59:32.000 --> 01:59:42.040
 The next card I have is Nathan Toon.

01:59:42.040 --> 01:59:43.040
 Good evening.

01:59:43.040 --> 01:59:46.880
 Angie, can I help you with that?

01:59:46.880 --> 01:59:59.180
 Or actually technology will turn it on I think in the back, right?

01:59:59.180 --> 02:00:00.180
 Yeah they turned on technology.

02:00:00.180 --> 02:00:01.180
 There it is.

02:00:01.180 --> 02:00:02.180
 Thank you.

02:00:02.180 --> 02:00:03.180
 You've done it.

02:00:03.180 --> 02:00:04.180
 Perfect.

02:00:04.180 --> 02:00:12.640
 Nathan Toon, 3201 Carmel Street, Denton, Texas.

02:00:12.640 --> 02:00:17.560
 My name first went on a for sale sign on this property in 2016.

02:00:17.560 --> 02:00:22.400
 I've worked with the property owner for seven years on this property.

02:00:22.400 --> 02:00:27.800
 The gentleman who previously spoke about a woman and her adult children, although he

02:00:27.800 --> 02:00:33.160
 does have a wife and adult children, I can promise you he wasn't sending them to rezone

02:00:33.160 --> 02:00:37.880
 his property or do anything on his behalf because that's just not his style.

02:00:37.880 --> 02:00:44.120
 So I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to, but I wanted to tell just a brief story.

02:00:44.120 --> 02:00:48.360
 This is about the first three or four years that I worked on this property.

02:00:48.360 --> 02:00:49.960
 This area was really green.

02:00:49.960 --> 02:00:52.040
 There wasn't much growth going on.

02:00:52.040 --> 02:00:58.240
 So we were being patient and about that time, about five years ago, I cold called Mr. Standridge

02:00:58.240 --> 02:00:59.720
 right here, Stacy Standridge.

02:00:59.720 --> 02:01:04.720
 He's one of the most reputable experienced land developers and DFW has been doing it

02:01:04.720 --> 02:01:05.720
 for a long time.

02:01:05.720 --> 02:01:10.640
 I went down and met with him and it was a very brief meeting.

02:01:10.640 --> 02:01:14.480
 He asked me if that was a limited access highway and I said yes.

02:01:14.480 --> 02:01:18.680
 He said, "Well, you need to learn the difference between an off ramp and a frontage road because

02:01:18.680 --> 02:01:24.720
 there won't be commercial development on this site if there's no access off of Loop 288."

02:01:24.720 --> 02:01:32.280
 So myself and Mr. Riley, the owner, we got together and we developed this early iteration

02:01:32.280 --> 02:01:38.920
 here of what would be a frontage road where we were proposing to add turn lanes, right

02:01:38.920 --> 02:01:44.080
 turn lanes, so that we could have a driveway onto the property so that we could get commercial

02:01:44.080 --> 02:01:46.420
 development.

02:01:46.420 --> 02:01:47.420
 We met with the city.

02:01:47.420 --> 02:01:54.220
 We met with TextDOT and it took us two years of meetings with everybody you could imagine.

02:01:54.220 --> 02:02:00.240
 We didn't have necessarily a development plan and we were asking just for a letter or an

02:02:00.240 --> 02:02:08.080
 email saying from the city and TextDOT that conceptually this idea was okay because at

02:02:08.080 --> 02:02:13.940
 that time there was no development anywhere along Loop 288, specifically commercial.

02:02:13.940 --> 02:02:19.920
 So this was kind of a new idea and after two years we finally did get this email right

02:02:19.920 --> 02:02:20.920
 here.

02:02:20.920 --> 02:02:32.960
 This would have been in October 2020, basically they tried to, I'm not accusing anybody of

02:02:32.960 --> 02:02:38.320
 anything but I'm just saying it was very hard for us to get this email which basically said

02:02:38.320 --> 02:02:43.680
 the city had no problem with it but TextDOT would ultimately need to decide if we could

02:02:43.680 --> 02:02:47.760
 accommodate a driveway on Loop 288.

02:02:47.760 --> 02:02:52.560
 And then after we finally got that I called Mr. Standards back after this article came

02:02:52.560 --> 02:02:59.760
 out after a study that was done by the city of Denton back in 2001 that said Denton needs

02:02:59.760 --> 02:03:04.760
 9,500 housing units in five years.

02:03:04.760 --> 02:03:11.600
 This article spread all over the internet I presume because not long after that we started

02:03:11.600 --> 02:03:18.440
 getting calls from multi-family developers from all over the country and since this study

02:03:18.440 --> 02:03:27.260
 was done and this article was posted I'm not exaggerating, I've probably gotten 150 calls

02:03:27.260 --> 02:03:33.220
 from developers all over the country, a lot of DFW developers and I didn't print the whole

02:03:33.220 --> 02:03:43.720
 article but it talks about the need for 4,100 to 4,400 rental housing units, multi-family

02:03:43.720 --> 02:03:50.520
 units, it talks about affordable housing, it talks about the need for duplexes, triplexes

02:03:50.520 --> 02:03:57.920
 and the like and in the two years that we've been working with the city on this project

02:03:57.920 --> 02:04:04.040
 I've probably gotten another 100 phone calls so I think, you know, what this basically

02:04:04.040 --> 02:04:10.180
 says is that by our own admission there's a need for more housing units like this.

02:04:10.180 --> 02:04:15.240
 If you look at the landscape of Denton there's not much undevelopable land so you're seeing

02:04:15.240 --> 02:04:23.160
 a lot of these projects taking place along the Loop 288 corridor and I think it's appropriate

02:04:23.160 --> 02:04:31.300
 from that regard I understand the traffic concern, you know, I think it would be hard

02:04:31.300 --> 02:04:38.520
 for a signal to be put in at Hartley Field and one at the C.H. Collins and/or the neighborhood

02:04:38.520 --> 02:04:49.140
 behind it and so from that regard I also find it hard to believe that apartment residents

02:04:49.140 --> 02:04:55.660
 or residents of this community or development when they leave here or come here I would

02:04:55.660 --> 02:04:59.680
 say a vast majority of them are not headed north, they're headed south, they're headed

02:04:59.680 --> 02:05:05.360
 to Loop 288, meanwhile certainly there will be some increase in traffic, I don't know

02:05:05.360 --> 02:05:15.600
 that it's going to be that much to create such a safety hazard for everybody out there,

02:05:15.600 --> 02:05:20.840
 you know, I do have a question about Hartley Field Road, is that a city street?

02:05:20.840 --> 02:05:27.840
 Because I know if you look at the ETJ, the city of Denton ETJ map a lot of the land behind

02:05:27.840 --> 02:05:35.080
 this parcel and out on Hartley Field is not in the city limits and so the feasibility

02:05:35.080 --> 02:05:44.520
 of trying to put the honus or the blame for traffic or congestion on the corner property

02:05:44.520 --> 02:05:50.960
 on a tech stock road that's, you know, got county roads behind it and land that's not

02:05:50.960 --> 02:05:57.760
 in the city, I don't know that that should be held against them and so I know my time

02:05:57.760 --> 02:06:01.720
 is up, I had more I'd like to say but I'll leave it at that.

02:06:01.720 --> 02:06:08.040
 I think after seven years and several hundred discussions with developers from all over

02:06:08.040 --> 02:06:15.560
 the country and the landowner, I think this is the best project that I've talked to or

02:06:15.560 --> 02:06:21.860
 discussed with potential buyers and developers and that's why we're all here tonight and

02:06:21.860 --> 02:06:29.000
 JPI, Stacey Standridge, they're engineers, they're first class in every regard and so

02:06:29.000 --> 02:06:34.640
 that's why I support this project and I would ask that you do the same, thank you.

02:06:34.640 --> 02:06:39.120
 Thank you, Mr. Tune, I appreciate it.

02:06:39.120 --> 02:06:45.200
 Next card I have is Greg Johnson.

02:06:45.200 --> 02:06:46.200
 Good evening.

02:06:46.200 --> 02:06:47.200
 Good evening, Commissioners.

02:06:47.200 --> 02:06:48.200
 Greg Johnson, 3190 Teasley.

02:06:48.200 --> 02:06:53.480
 I don't really have a dog in this fight but as I was looking at the agenda because I'm

02:06:53.480 --> 02:06:58.480
 up later, a couple things struck me and I kind of dug into this one a little bit.

02:06:58.480 --> 02:07:06.280
 So my only comment really here is this is a hard corner of what's essentially an interstate,

02:07:06.280 --> 02:07:16.080
 right, I mean loop 288, large divided state highway and at the corner of a state highway,

02:07:16.080 --> 02:07:17.720
 right, text dot road.

02:07:17.720 --> 02:07:23.240
 So when you look at this corner, when I look at corners, I'm in the business, I look at

02:07:23.240 --> 02:07:25.380
 what else goes on these corners.

02:07:25.380 --> 02:07:33.440
 So I look just south of it, we have a very similar development that's working well.

02:07:33.440 --> 02:07:40.720
 When we look south and west of it, caddy corner to it, very similar development that's been

02:07:40.720 --> 02:07:46.240
 approved and so when I look at land like this, I say well what's going to go there?

02:07:46.240 --> 02:07:53.360
 Nobody's ever going to build a house there, right, I mean it's a hard corner of a state

02:07:53.360 --> 02:07:55.560
 highway and a state highway.

02:07:55.560 --> 02:08:02.060
 So then when I put my city hat on and I think about putting our land to use to generate

02:08:02.060 --> 02:08:06.400
 quality revenue for the city, something jumped out at me in the back up like I think it was

02:08:06.400 --> 02:08:10.280
 something like five and a half million dollars worth of revenue that this thing creates.

02:08:10.280 --> 02:08:16.240
 So I don't know where that was, there was a ton of back up but my point in this is just

02:08:16.240 --> 02:08:22.720
 there's been a lot of talk about the small area plan, 7,000, 6,800 acres isn't a small

02:08:22.720 --> 02:08:31.080
 area one, but two, as a city we no longer have the right to annex ETJ property.

02:08:31.080 --> 02:08:34.640
 So one way you can ever annex that is the property owner agrees.

02:08:34.640 --> 02:08:39.640
 So the way we used to think about ETJ is well when we take that in, it will be part of the

02:08:39.640 --> 02:08:43.160
 city and therefore blah, blah, blah.

02:08:43.160 --> 02:08:47.920
 Well if this property is sitting on that corner, everything around it is ETJ, so that's county

02:08:47.920 --> 02:08:54.680
 land and really today in my mind because we don't have the right to annex ETJ property

02:08:54.680 --> 02:08:59.080
 anymore, I really think we should start referring that as county property because we don't have

02:08:59.080 --> 02:09:02.400
 the right to go take it or get it.

02:09:02.400 --> 02:09:10.380
 So if you look back at the map, that property sitting on the hard corner is really an island

02:09:10.380 --> 02:09:14.660
 of its own because everything around it with the exception of the very small strip that's

02:09:14.660 --> 02:09:20.300
 its own like R4 or something is county land.

02:09:20.300 --> 02:09:27.200
 So to me this corner of a highway and a highway really isn't in my mind part of a small area

02:09:27.200 --> 02:09:28.200
 plan.

02:09:28.200 --> 02:09:33.120
 I totally get where the residents who live up there north of it are coming from because

02:09:33.120 --> 02:09:38.080
 428 should have been expanded just like all of our roads, right?

02:09:38.080 --> 02:09:41.640
 We should have expanded and anticipated the growth, but it always comes down to text out

02:09:41.640 --> 02:09:46.200
 budgets and none of us can control text out of what they do.

02:09:46.200 --> 02:09:52.040
 But when I look at this development, commercial on the corner, the horizontal multifamily,

02:09:52.040 --> 02:09:57.240
 the multifamily, there may be somebody who lives there that works in Aubrey that's going

02:09:57.240 --> 02:10:01.960
 to go north, but for the most part those kind of projects, those kind of developments, those

02:10:01.960 --> 02:10:04.320
 people are working in the city.

02:10:04.320 --> 02:10:10.040
 So I look at that land, it's ag exempt, it's producing nothing for the city and I don't

02:10:10.040 --> 02:10:14.000
 see it really as a part of the small area.

02:10:14.000 --> 02:10:20.160
 I see it as a hard corner on two very major roads and ultimately 428 is going to have

02:10:20.160 --> 02:10:25.480
 to get expanded, but I don't know that the property owner here should be penalized because

02:10:25.480 --> 02:10:29.780
 428 didn't get expanded in advance of all that growth that's already happening out there.

02:10:29.780 --> 02:10:35.720
 So my two cents don't have anything to do with it, but as I looked at it I felt like

02:10:35.720 --> 02:10:38.800
 I should get up and speak my piece, so I did.

02:10:38.800 --> 02:10:39.800
 Thank you.

02:10:39.800 --> 02:10:40.800
 I appreciate your sharing your knowledge.

02:10:40.800 --> 02:10:41.800
 I appreciate it.

02:10:41.800 --> 02:10:47.520
 I have some other cards here not wishing to speak, but if you change your mind let me

02:10:47.520 --> 02:10:48.680
 know.

02:10:48.680 --> 02:10:56.200
 Susan Smith has filled out a card in opposition.

02:10:56.200 --> 02:11:03.920
 Tony Riley is in support, not wishing to speak.

02:11:03.920 --> 02:11:10.200
 Mary Aren't in opposition.

02:11:10.200 --> 02:11:15.040
 Steven Aren't in opposition.

02:11:15.040 --> 02:11:19.520
 Those are all the cards I have in front of me, but this is a public hearing.

02:11:19.520 --> 02:11:25.520
 If there is anyone else wishing to speak on this item, please come on down to the podium.

02:11:25.520 --> 02:11:31.240
 Come on down, sure.

02:11:31.240 --> 02:11:37.840
 Come on down to the podium so we can hear you.

02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:39.800
 Hi.

02:11:39.800 --> 02:11:46.640
 Hi, I'm Dana McMillan.

02:11:46.640 --> 02:11:47.640
 I am in opposition.

02:11:47.640 --> 02:11:56.080
 I live at 312 Deerfield Drive, which is Kings Row and The Loop.

02:11:56.080 --> 02:11:59.880
 That is the main entrance to our neighborhood.

02:11:59.880 --> 02:12:03.600
 We also exit through Hartley Field.

02:12:03.600 --> 02:12:06.800
 Many times we were unable to get out of our neighborhood.

02:12:06.800 --> 02:12:12.920
 They've just added, I think, over 300 new mobile homes.

02:12:12.920 --> 02:12:14.320
 It's not in the county.

02:12:14.320 --> 02:12:18.020
 It's just on the other side, but it doesn't matter.

02:12:18.020 --> 02:12:24.600
 Their main entrance is also at Kings Row, which is why we do have to go back through

02:12:24.600 --> 02:12:27.440
 the neighborhood and exit at Hartley Field.

02:12:27.440 --> 02:12:35.200
 Also, that is zoned for the elementary school that I have taught at for 22 years.

02:12:35.200 --> 02:12:44.720
 Hodge Elementary is the name, and it is the highest need school in Denton.

02:12:44.720 --> 02:12:46.200
 That beats all the high schools.

02:12:46.200 --> 02:12:52.120
 It beats all the elementary schools, and that is because we have all of the trailer parks

02:12:52.120 --> 02:12:57.840
 all the way down, these people are mobile, they pass several schools to come to us.

02:12:57.840 --> 02:13:02.480
 We have apartment complexes, and they're saying there's going to be 30 kids.

02:13:02.480 --> 02:13:06.840
 I highly doubt with that size, there's only going to be 30 kids.

02:13:06.840 --> 02:13:15.720
 Our school is at 700, where I think the highest elementary school as it is.

02:13:15.720 --> 02:13:21.720
 We do definitely have kids that live on Hartley Field Road that come to our school.

02:13:21.720 --> 02:13:28.200
 Our population is in mobile homes and apartment complexes.

02:13:28.200 --> 02:13:31.740
 It turns over, it turns over, it turns over.

02:13:31.740 --> 02:13:37.200
 We're losing teachers left and right because of the constant ... We don't have a steady

02:13:37.200 --> 02:13:39.360
 student body.

02:13:39.360 --> 02:13:41.840
 We have mobile children.

02:13:41.840 --> 02:13:47.520
 We teach mobile children, and it's not that we don't love it, but we are a high needs

02:13:47.520 --> 02:13:53.860
 campus, and sure they can change zoning at any time, will they?

02:13:53.860 --> 02:13:55.400
 They haven't yet.

02:13:55.400 --> 02:13:56.560
 They go all the way out.

02:13:56.560 --> 02:13:58.840
 We are a bilingual school.

02:13:58.840 --> 02:14:09.280
 We have 70% Hispanic, and over 50% of our classes are Spanish classes.

02:14:09.280 --> 02:14:16.680
 They also bring kids from all up and down 380 to our school, and up and down we have

02:14:16.680 --> 02:14:20.120
 our students that live in Aubrey.

02:14:20.120 --> 02:14:28.320
 They live in Green Valley, and they live in the part across from Elm Bottom, I believe,

02:14:28.320 --> 02:14:30.960
 but they come to our school as well.

02:14:30.960 --> 02:14:42.160
 It is a very highly trafficked area, and on football games, I live down by Kings Row,

02:14:42.160 --> 02:14:49.200
 and then there's Sherman where you go off to the water park, that's the next intersection.

02:14:49.200 --> 02:14:55.880
 We have trouble getting out and in our neighborhood on game nights.

02:14:55.880 --> 02:15:03.000
 They have several schools that utilize that stadium, so that whatever, 10 to 15, that's

02:15:03.000 --> 02:15:06.240
 not even ... They have games on Thursday.

02:15:06.240 --> 02:15:13.720
 They have things on Saturday, so that's not really a good estimate.

02:15:13.720 --> 02:15:22.400
 I'm concerned that we do a lot of building of apartments along the loop, and there have

02:15:22.400 --> 02:15:29.880
 been 10 complexes in between 380 and the new high school, which is right on 35 basically

02:15:29.880 --> 02:15:37.880
 in that area, and it's all down in there, and the traffic has gotten crazy, and this

02:15:37.880 --> 02:15:44.160
 is just in the last couple of years, and now we're going to put another complex there where

02:15:44.160 --> 02:15:54.920
 just over the overpass of 380, they were putting giant complexes there, so that's all going

02:15:54.920 --> 02:16:00.080
 to count on that traffic, and they're not taking any of those new developments into

02:16:00.080 --> 02:16:01.080
 consideration.

02:16:01.080 --> 02:16:09.760
 The ones that are in the process of being built already, and what they want to add.

02:16:09.760 --> 02:16:21.080
 I think that traffic is being minimized, and I don't think that we need another 380 right

02:16:21.080 --> 02:16:22.080
 through to.

02:16:22.080 --> 02:16:23.080
 Thank you.

02:16:23.080 --> 02:16:40.960
 Another card I have in opposition is Cindy Gilbert, and I have Katie McGuire in opposition.

02:16:40.960 --> 02:16:48.240
 Again, those are all the cards I have, although I think I see one coming down now.

02:16:48.240 --> 02:16:52.400
 This is a public hearing, whether you filled out a card or not, you are welcome to speak

02:16:52.400 --> 02:17:05.120
 if you have not done so already.

02:17:05.120 --> 02:17:11.880
 I've got a card from Marni Sadri in opposition.

02:17:11.880 --> 02:17:12.880
 Good evening, sir.

02:17:12.880 --> 02:17:13.880
 Good evening.

02:17:13.880 --> 02:17:14.880
 I am Dr. Stephen Arndt.

02:17:14.880 --> 02:17:23.240
 I did not anticipate speaking, so this is not prepared, it's just off the top of my balding

02:17:23.240 --> 02:17:24.240
 head.

02:17:24.240 --> 02:17:27.080
 I live at 3375 Hartley Field Road.

02:17:27.080 --> 02:17:33.600
 My wife and I like to take walks down what used to be our nice country lane.

02:17:33.600 --> 02:17:39.240
 One Saturday recently on our short one mile out and one mile back walk, we were passed

02:17:39.240 --> 02:17:42.120
 by 40 cars.

02:17:42.120 --> 02:17:48.160
 This is a very windy road, they drive at 30, 40, 50 miles an hour on it.

02:17:48.160 --> 02:17:51.640
 It is extremely dangerous.

02:17:51.640 --> 02:17:57.320
 Going out from Hartley Field and turning left onto Sherman Drive is extremely dangerous.

02:17:57.320 --> 02:18:02.420
 Our next door neighbor got hit once doing it, trying to turn left.

02:18:02.420 --> 02:18:10.200
 As soon as you turn again on the loop 288 towards I-35, the one thing you can be absolutely

02:18:10.200 --> 02:18:12.940
 sure of is a traffic jam.

02:18:12.940 --> 02:18:21.240
 The plan for loop 288 seems to be build on every single square inch that is available,

02:18:21.240 --> 02:18:25.440
 leave nothing unbuilt on.

02:18:25.440 --> 02:18:29.160
 I think Travis hit the nail on the head.

02:18:29.160 --> 02:18:35.080
 We have to ask ourselves, what do we want for ourselves as dentonites?

02:18:35.080 --> 02:18:39.140
 Do we really want to be another Frisco?

02:18:39.140 --> 02:18:40.880
 And why stop at Frisco?

02:18:40.880 --> 02:18:45.800
 We could be like Dallas or Houston or Austin, but why stop there?

02:18:45.800 --> 02:18:51.720
 We could be as big as Chicago or New York City or Tokyo or Mexico City.

02:18:51.720 --> 02:18:56.080
 My question is, where does it stop?

02:18:56.080 --> 02:18:59.320
 When is it big enough?

02:18:59.320 --> 02:19:06.120
 What kind of place do we really want to live in?

02:19:06.120 --> 02:19:12.140
 And our children, thank you.

02:19:12.140 --> 02:19:15.840
 Someone said we need X number of living units.

02:19:15.840 --> 02:19:21.560
 You may remember the movie with Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams, with the slogan, build it

02:19:21.560 --> 02:19:23.620
 and they will come.

02:19:23.620 --> 02:19:30.880
 The converse is also true, stop building and they will stop coming.

02:19:30.880 --> 02:19:35.120
 We have enough apartment complexes.

02:19:35.120 --> 02:19:39.800
 And what I understand, we can't even fill the ones that have already been built.

02:19:39.800 --> 02:19:45.080
 And we're building them on every single corner.

02:19:45.080 --> 02:19:49.660
 In the last two or three years, we've had, I don't know how many new neighborhoods spring

02:19:49.660 --> 02:19:50.660
 up around us.

02:19:50.660 --> 02:19:54.040
 I can't count the number of apartment buildings.

02:19:54.040 --> 02:19:58.320
 This is not the kind of town I want to live in.

02:19:58.320 --> 02:20:03.880
 When I moved here 30 years ago, this was a pleasant place to live.

02:20:03.880 --> 02:20:10.820
 It has become miserable to get in a car and drive from A to B. You have to fight traffic

02:20:10.820 --> 02:20:11.820
 all the way.

02:20:11.820 --> 02:20:15.480
 And once you get there, you probably cannot park.

02:20:15.480 --> 02:20:20.120
 Development, we're talking about what kind of development we want.

02:20:20.120 --> 02:20:24.480
 We should be asking, do we want any development at all?

02:20:24.480 --> 02:20:30.240
 And my answer to that is no, bigger is not better.

02:20:30.240 --> 02:20:31.240
 Thank you.

02:20:31.240 --> 02:20:34.760
 Thank you, Mr. Earnt.

02:20:34.760 --> 02:20:41.980
 I don't have any other cards in front of me, but if you would like to speak, come on down.

02:20:41.980 --> 02:20:43.560
 Just state your name and address and your time will begin.

02:20:43.560 --> 02:20:44.560
 Katie McGuire.

02:20:44.560 --> 02:20:48.960
 I am 3574 Pine Trail and I was opposed to one of the cards.

02:20:48.960 --> 02:20:53.840
 Me and my husband and our brand new newborn son just moved over off of Hartley Field because

02:20:53.840 --> 02:20:56.360
 we did love the area, the environment.

02:20:56.360 --> 02:20:59.360
 I've grown up in the Idiots Hill neighborhood my entire life.

02:20:59.360 --> 02:21:02.440
 I'm 35, so Denton has been my home my whole life.

02:21:02.440 --> 02:21:03.440
 I love Denton.

02:21:03.440 --> 02:21:04.440
 I love it very much.

02:21:04.440 --> 02:21:09.480
 But we moved out there and immediately I noticed because I do drive to Borman Elementary, so

02:21:09.480 --> 02:21:12.880
 I have to go into Denton and across I teach kindergarten.

02:21:12.880 --> 02:21:19.440
 And I have to get up much earlier to sit on that corner to turn left because as they said,

02:21:19.440 --> 02:21:20.760
 I can't always see.

02:21:20.760 --> 02:21:23.920
 I feel very uncomfortable with the people who are coming over.

02:21:23.920 --> 02:21:28.000
 And so I need to leave at least 30 minutes early to make sure that on that corner I can

02:21:28.000 --> 02:21:32.440
 turn because there are times that I would be late at the beginning of the year because

02:21:32.440 --> 02:21:37.680
 I wasn't prepared for this knowing how many and that's at 637 in the morning knowing how

02:21:37.680 --> 02:21:39.240
 many cars are coming.

02:21:39.240 --> 02:21:43.380
 Also I just wanted to say I'm really glad that the landowner is happy, but all of the

02:21:43.380 --> 02:21:45.640
 people around are not with the sale.

02:21:45.640 --> 02:21:46.640
 We're very upset.

02:21:46.640 --> 02:21:49.460
 I've only been there since August.

02:21:49.460 --> 02:21:51.720
 Imagine the people who've been living there their whole lives.

02:21:51.720 --> 02:21:52.840
 They're very upset.

02:21:52.840 --> 02:21:57.560
 I've become this passionate because I want my son to be able to appreciate and be able

02:21:57.560 --> 02:21:59.360
 to feel comfortable driving.

02:21:59.360 --> 02:22:00.360
 We're right there.

02:22:00.360 --> 02:22:03.600
 I mean, he's two months old right now, but I can't imagine what it's going to be like

02:22:03.600 --> 02:22:04.660
 when he's driving.

02:22:04.660 --> 02:22:09.540
 So please think of the people who are up here who came to a meeting who are away from their

02:22:09.540 --> 02:22:12.880
 newborn child because we feel so passionate about this.

02:22:12.880 --> 02:22:14.640
 So do not do this.

02:22:14.640 --> 02:22:16.200
 It's not where it needs to be.

02:22:16.200 --> 02:22:20.680
 There's already an apartment complex, there's tons and they haven't even filled.

02:22:20.680 --> 02:22:23.280
 There's now leasing, haven't even finished.

02:22:23.280 --> 02:22:25.140
 We don't need to build another one.

02:22:25.140 --> 02:22:26.140
 Thank you.

02:22:26.140 --> 02:22:27.640
 Hi.

02:22:27.640 --> 02:22:42.320
 Hi, my name is Isabelle Spinelli.

02:22:42.320 --> 02:22:47.480
 I live at 5408 Pagewood Drive, which is in the Stark Farms area.

02:22:47.480 --> 02:22:52.120
 Something I hear a lot of tonight is a lot of what happens at the athletic complex, right?

02:22:52.120 --> 02:22:56.440
 The football games, I'm not hearing a lot about the band competitions.

02:22:56.440 --> 02:22:59.040
 Not hearing a lot about the various other events there.

02:22:59.040 --> 02:23:03.760
 Also you have a massive natatorium there that hosts multiple clubs for swimming, for water

02:23:03.760 --> 02:23:07.380
 polo, for various sports around the area.

02:23:07.380 --> 02:23:11.960
 Any given Saturday that you guys go out there, water polo, swim, those fill up that parking

02:23:11.960 --> 02:23:16.240
 lot and those also fill out a lot of traffic in that area.

02:23:16.240 --> 02:23:19.600
 It's very difficult to get out of the neighborhood, very difficult to get down that hill.

02:23:19.600 --> 02:23:21.800
 I don't hear that being talked about a lot.

02:23:21.800 --> 02:23:26.480
 There's more than just the football games, there's more than just all of those events.

02:23:26.480 --> 02:23:28.240
 It's dangerous as it is.

02:23:28.240 --> 02:23:33.380
 I think adding a giant apartment complex, multi-family, whatever you want to call it, is a dangerous

02:23:33.380 --> 02:23:36.200
 thing to do without taking proper traffic considerations in.

02:23:36.200 --> 02:23:38.320
 That's all I wanted to say.

02:23:38.320 --> 02:23:42.080
 Thank you for speaking, appreciate it.

02:23:42.080 --> 02:23:43.080
 This is a public hearing.

02:23:43.080 --> 02:23:44.320
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

02:23:44.320 --> 02:23:52.800
 Yep, come on down.

02:23:52.800 --> 02:23:53.800
 Good evening.

02:23:53.800 --> 02:23:54.800
 My name is Marni Sadri.

02:23:54.800 --> 02:23:58.200
 I wasn't planning on speaking tonight, but I hadn't heard anyone ... Oh, sorry.

02:23:58.200 --> 02:24:00.800
 I live at 3105 Deerfield Drive.

02:24:00.800 --> 02:24:06.440
 I've been a resident on this street for 17 years.

02:24:06.440 --> 02:24:12.380
 My husband has lived in the area 28 years.

02:24:12.380 --> 02:24:15.600
 He's a university professor.

02:24:15.600 --> 02:24:23.580
 I haven't heard much mention of the 2040 small area plan, which I think is very near and

02:24:23.580 --> 02:24:24.820
 dear to our hearts.

02:24:24.820 --> 02:24:29.040
 We have a small footprint where we are right now.

02:24:29.040 --> 02:24:34.400
 I think it's the only small footprint left in Denton.

02:24:34.400 --> 02:24:40.640
 The one thing that really concerns me is where we are in this northeast Denton corner is

02:24:40.640 --> 02:24:45.480
 where everyone goes to relax.

02:24:45.480 --> 02:24:48.240
 When I see the apartments going in, I'm fine with that.

02:24:48.240 --> 02:24:50.200
 I really thought the plans were lovely.

02:24:50.200 --> 02:24:58.160
 I just don't think another one on northeast Denton is the place to put another apartment.

02:24:58.160 --> 02:25:04.960
 The small area plan and our vision for 2040, I'm wondering why can't we put in something

02:25:04.960 --> 02:25:14.440
 else the light commercial, make it light commercial use for the residents to enjoy that maybe

02:25:14.440 --> 02:25:17.560
 goes along with the theme of what's already there?

02:25:17.560 --> 02:25:22.760
 Why can't we just expand on the theme of nature and bee city?

02:25:22.760 --> 02:25:30.200
 I'm talking honeybee city, monarch city, we're right on the edge of the central flyway, migratory

02:25:30.200 --> 02:25:32.240
 central flyway.

02:25:32.240 --> 02:25:36.840
 Why not capitalize on that if we want to talk about making money?

02:25:36.840 --> 02:25:42.920
 I mean, we're right here and I just think we should keep the footprint small.

02:25:42.920 --> 02:25:43.920
 That's all I have to say.

02:25:43.920 --> 02:25:44.920
 Thank you.

02:25:44.920 --> 02:25:45.920
 Sure.

02:25:45.920 --> 02:25:46.920
 Come on down.

02:25:46.920 --> 02:25:47.920
 Good evening.

02:25:47.920 --> 02:26:04.040
 My name is Brett Stewart and I live at 5012 Golden Circle which is off of Hartley Field

02:26:04.040 --> 02:26:05.040
 Road.

02:26:05.040 --> 02:26:10.240
 I moved to this area about a little over two and a half years ago, I guess, after living

02:26:10.240 --> 02:26:12.800
 in Flower Mound for 21 years.

02:26:12.800 --> 02:26:19.760
 One of the reasons we moved, we graduated from UNT, my wife and I, in '89 and lived

02:26:19.760 --> 02:26:25.040
 here until about '94 and the reason we came back to Denton is to get away from all the

02:26:25.040 --> 02:26:30.240
 congestion and so forth we had in Flower Mound and so I'm seeing the same type of pattern

02:26:30.240 --> 02:26:33.640
 here as we go across, as we're building up here.

02:26:33.640 --> 02:26:38.920
 I can't reiterate any more than what we've already talked about tonight and if I could

02:26:38.920 --> 02:26:44.080
 give my time to Bridget, I would, but I know I can't, but anyway, I'm in opposition.

02:26:44.080 --> 02:26:45.080
 Thank you.

02:26:45.080 --> 02:26:48.480
 Thank you for speaking.

02:26:48.480 --> 02:26:49.480
 This is a public hearing.

02:26:49.480 --> 02:26:53.960
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not done so already?

02:26:53.960 --> 02:26:54.960
 Sure.

02:26:54.960 --> 02:26:55.960
 Hi.

02:26:55.960 --> 02:26:56.960
 Good evening.

02:26:56.960 --> 02:27:10.240
 My name is Stacey Standridge, Standridge Companies, 15640 Quorum Drive, Addison, Texas.

02:27:10.240 --> 02:27:16.560
 So the reason that my company is interested in this property is because of its location

02:27:16.560 --> 02:27:24.040
 and as previously said, it's at two main roads and a major intersection and the zoning

02:27:24.040 --> 02:27:29.600
 allows for commercial development and that's what my company specializes in and we've developed

02:27:29.600 --> 02:27:36.680
 50 plus centers throughout our company's history, includes grocery anchored to service retail

02:27:36.680 --> 02:27:45.280
 so we do it all and my goal here for this property was just going to be a large commercial

02:27:45.280 --> 02:27:49.800
 shopping center, happened to be playing golf with one of the JPI guys.

02:27:49.800 --> 02:27:54.440
 We have a friendship, told him I was looking at buying it.

02:27:54.440 --> 02:28:01.080
 Like Nathan said, he's had a ton of people or developers, multifamily developers interested

02:28:01.080 --> 02:28:05.920
 in the property, but I know JPI is one of the best.

02:28:05.920 --> 02:28:11.120
 We decided, hey, let's go try to get this zoned and I think because I've been in this

02:28:11.120 --> 02:28:18.720
 situation many, many, many times where I've had meetings like this and traffic is an issue.

02:28:18.720 --> 02:28:25.480
 There's no question the traffic is immense, but as a developer that's what I look for.

02:28:25.480 --> 02:28:32.240
 I want intersections that have high traffic and I would venture to say and I'm not a traffic

02:28:32.240 --> 02:28:38.960
 engineer but a project that gets built there someday and it will, it's a great intersection,

02:28:38.960 --> 02:28:46.720
 one of the best properties left in my opinion in Denton, it will develop and I would venture

02:28:46.720 --> 02:28:55.640
 to say that there, the traffic could potentially be three times once this develops to its capacity

02:28:55.640 --> 02:29:02.840
 than what is planned tonight and a lot of times I think that's lost because the homeowners

02:29:02.840 --> 02:29:09.760
 on a zoning case like this get to speak and they get to touch the project in certain ways

02:29:09.760 --> 02:29:19.000
 and get to ask for things that either get added to or adjusted.

02:29:19.000 --> 02:29:20.000
 Safety is a huge issue.

02:29:20.000 --> 02:29:21.000
 I get that.

02:29:21.000 --> 02:29:22.000
 I understand.

02:29:22.000 --> 02:29:23.000
 I have four boys.

02:29:23.000 --> 02:29:24.000
 I get it.

02:29:24.000 --> 02:29:31.400
 Safety, we'll do everything we can from a safety perspective, but if it gets denied

02:29:31.400 --> 02:29:36.840
 and someday I come back in here with a project that doesn't come to you guys, it just goes

02:29:36.840 --> 02:29:42.200
 through staff because it's zoned and I want to develop a shopping center, then I'm going

02:29:42.200 --> 02:29:43.440
 to do that.

02:29:43.440 --> 02:29:44.880
 We won't have this meeting.

02:29:44.880 --> 02:29:50.400
 I'll be going through staff, site plan approval, going through the normal channels and there's

02:29:50.400 --> 02:29:57.080
 not really any, I mean, public input because I'm following the guidelines in my zoning.

02:29:57.080 --> 02:30:03.440
 This particular development would have a service retail component to it that we do a lot of.

02:30:03.440 --> 02:30:12.760
 You saw some pictures, we have our restaurants, we have our salons, we have our dentist, just

02:30:12.760 --> 02:30:20.280
 to help serve the neighborhood at a location that people can get to easy and we're making

02:30:20.280 --> 02:30:21.940
 improvements to the roads.

02:30:21.940 --> 02:30:28.080
 So again, I'm going to go back to traffic is a concern, but the traffic's coming and

02:30:28.080 --> 02:30:35.600
 someday it very well is going to be a lot more than what this plan shows.

02:30:35.600 --> 02:30:42.880
 So I think that what we're proposing here meets the comprehensive plan supported by

02:30:42.880 --> 02:30:43.880
 staff.

02:30:43.880 --> 02:30:48.880
 We've gone through almost two years of effort to try to get to where we are tonight.

02:30:48.880 --> 02:30:59.040
 And so again, safety, we want to address however we can, but obviously I'm in support of the

02:30:59.040 --> 02:31:00.040
 project.

02:31:00.040 --> 02:31:01.040
 Thank you.

02:31:01.040 --> 02:31:02.040
 Thank you.

02:31:02.040 --> 02:31:03.040
 I think we have a question for you.

02:31:03.040 --> 02:31:04.040
 Commissioner Smith?

02:31:04.040 --> 02:31:05.040
 No?

02:31:05.040 --> 02:31:06.040
 Thank you, Chair.

02:31:06.040 --> 02:31:07.040
 Thank you, Mr. Standridge.

02:31:07.040 --> 02:31:08.040
 I appreciate it.

02:31:08.040 --> 02:31:09.040
 Hey, Karina, can I ask you a question?

02:31:09.040 --> 02:31:11.880
 I know, I'll put you on the spot.

02:31:11.880 --> 02:31:18.280
 So Mr. Standridge brought up, and I think that's something I've been looking at, we've been

02:31:18.280 --> 02:31:24.160
 talking about this project for a while now, but Zoned SC has commercial uses that are

02:31:24.160 --> 02:31:30.360
 already allowed by right from a traffic planner perspective, can you enlighten everybody in

02:31:30.360 --> 02:31:38.000
 the room on traditional differences and daily trips between a multifamily type property?

02:31:38.000 --> 02:31:42.760
 I know this has multifamily and commercial mixed use within there versus some sort of

02:31:42.760 --> 02:31:47.880
 shopping center retail use, I would probably say that falls into the subuses of probably

02:31:47.880 --> 02:31:51.760
 the 15,000 less size on the use table.

02:31:51.760 --> 02:31:55.800
 Yeah, so I can take pieces of that and attempt to answer that question.

02:31:55.800 --> 02:32:01.480
 I think Angie provided a great slide during the work session doing an analysis within

02:32:01.480 --> 02:32:04.120
 the city of what that would look like in comparison.

02:32:04.120 --> 02:32:09.480
 So within the suburban corridor zoning, what that trip generation would look like and maybe

02:32:09.480 --> 02:32:11.760
 we could pull that slide up to help.

02:32:11.760 --> 02:32:18.400
 I don't have the traffic codes off the top of my head, but in general, it really depends

02:32:18.400 --> 02:32:21.120
 on the type of commercial development.

02:32:21.120 --> 02:32:27.600
 So whether it's a shopping center, whether it has pad sites and it has drive-through

02:32:27.600 --> 02:32:30.920
 uses, the drive-through use is going to increase the traffic.

02:32:30.920 --> 02:32:34.640
 So there's a combination of uses that could go in there.

02:32:34.640 --> 02:32:42.400
 In scenarios like this where there is a land use and maybe not an intended use identified

02:32:42.400 --> 02:32:48.720
 yet with the traffic studies, we'll tell the traffic engineer to identify the most intense

02:32:48.720 --> 02:32:52.600
 use and provide trip generation based on that.

02:32:52.600 --> 02:32:55.080
 Generally commercial is going to increase traffic.

02:32:55.080 --> 02:33:00.820
 I think it's been said a couple of times by several people here that general retail would

02:33:00.820 --> 02:33:04.160
 increase the amount of traffic compared to what's proposed.

02:33:04.160 --> 02:33:11.480
 However, it depends on the mix of uses and square footage and things like that.

02:33:11.480 --> 02:33:15.080
 In general, yes, you will see more traffic with retail.

02:33:15.080 --> 02:33:23.160
 You typically do see it on intersections of arterials and higher classified roadways.

02:33:23.160 --> 02:33:27.520
 So I hope I answered that question.

02:33:27.520 --> 02:33:29.400
 Thanks Karina.

02:33:29.400 --> 02:33:31.480
 This is a public hearing, still open.

02:33:31.480 --> 02:33:36.600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item?

02:33:36.600 --> 02:33:44.200
 Sure, come on down.

02:33:44.200 --> 02:33:45.200
 Good evening.

02:33:45.200 --> 02:33:46.200
 If you'll state your name and address, your time will begin.

02:33:46.200 --> 02:33:47.200
 My name is Mary White.

02:33:47.200 --> 02:33:53.920
 My address is 3217 Deerfield Drive in Denton.

02:33:53.920 --> 02:33:58.680
 I hadn't planned on speaking again tonight like a number of other people are.

02:33:58.680 --> 02:34:03.960
 I've been living in Denton, I grew up in Dallas, moved here to go to school in 1968.

02:34:03.960 --> 02:34:09.080
 Took three years away to go to Florida and I've lived here ever since.

02:34:09.080 --> 02:34:12.080
 So over 50 years I've been in Denton.

02:34:12.080 --> 02:34:18.680
 I've seen it grow, I've seen the square move out to Sunset Boulevard and the university

02:34:18.680 --> 02:34:25.800
 and then the square go down and now become the vibrant thing that it is now.

02:34:25.800 --> 02:34:36.160
 My biggest thing is I feel like we only have two places in Denton that I can call unique.

02:34:36.160 --> 02:34:41.040
 Everything else has become commercial like Frisco, Prosper, even Salinas going that way

02:34:41.040 --> 02:34:42.040
 now.

02:34:42.040 --> 02:34:47.640
 We've got downtown Denton which I think is really cool compared to what it was 15 years

02:34:47.640 --> 02:34:50.040
 ago when there was nobody there.

02:34:50.040 --> 02:34:57.080
 Most people have done a great job and it's hard to park but I love seeing all the life

02:34:57.080 --> 02:34:58.160
 down there.

02:34:58.160 --> 02:35:03.880
 I love seeing all the inclusiveness that the city of Denton has.

02:35:03.880 --> 02:35:06.880
 I kind of view us as a little Austin.

02:35:06.880 --> 02:35:10.920
 We're unique, we have our own way of doing things.

02:35:10.920 --> 02:35:16.240
 The only other place that we've got that's like that now is our northeast Denton area

02:35:16.240 --> 02:35:23.240
 and it's a quiet habitat, it's a place that people can go to, get away from everything,

02:35:23.240 --> 02:35:28.200
 nature's out there, we've got the creek, we've got the creek bottoms, it's just, it's the

02:35:28.200 --> 02:35:35.680
 only unique place left other than Denton that we can all Denton and I hate to see that change.

02:35:35.680 --> 02:35:43.000
 I also hate the fact that we go and the city council and the input from everybody else,

02:35:43.000 --> 02:35:44.680
 they develop these plans.

02:35:44.680 --> 02:35:50.880
 We had our 2020 plan, we had our 2030 plan, we had our 2040 plan and no sooner they get

02:35:50.880 --> 02:35:54.600
 in place then we're asking to change it.

02:35:54.600 --> 02:35:59.400
 I don't know why these people spend all these days and hours and months planning this and

02:35:59.400 --> 02:36:04.680
 then it's kind of like this is what the plan is but no sooner is it in place than we want

02:36:04.680 --> 02:36:08.680
 to change it.

02:36:08.680 --> 02:36:12.800
 I'm probably a little bit different from some of the people that I know who need industry,

02:36:12.800 --> 02:36:14.880
 keeps our tax base growing.

02:36:14.880 --> 02:36:19.360
 We've also got to have places for these people to live and they all can't afford housing,

02:36:19.360 --> 02:36:25.320
 we've got to have apartments, I understand, I get all that but we still got to have places

02:36:25.320 --> 02:36:33.000
 that keep Denton unique and this is one of the two main places that's happening on.

02:36:33.000 --> 02:36:40.200
 So I ask you please, we don't want to be Frisco, we don't want to be Prosper, I've told people

02:36:40.200 --> 02:36:45.800
 this over and over and over again, we had our great big small area plan that they had

02:36:45.800 --> 02:36:50.400
 that Hodge that the city put on big dance and pony show for us and hundreds and hundreds

02:36:50.400 --> 02:36:55.640
 of people showed up and we told them exactly what they want and this is our schedule to

02:36:55.640 --> 02:36:57.800
 be changed before that was even in there.

02:36:57.800 --> 02:37:01.040
 I talked to these people and said why are we doing this when you don't listen to us?

02:37:01.040 --> 02:37:05.840
 No, no, no, we're doing this because we want to listen to you but we're bringing this up

02:37:05.840 --> 02:37:08.080
 there and we want to change it.

02:37:08.080 --> 02:37:16.640
 So please keep that in mind, you've heard safety questions on here, just keep part of

02:37:16.640 --> 02:37:22.160
 Denton for us please, that's all I can ask of you, thank you.

02:37:22.160 --> 02:37:26.160
 Thank you.

02:37:26.160 --> 02:37:39.080
 This is a public hearing, if you have not already spoken, you may come down.

02:37:39.080 --> 02:37:55.480
 Hello, I'm Mary Arndt and I live at 3375 Hartley Field Road and I so appreciate the time that

02:37:55.480 --> 02:37:59.640
 you all put in to all of the decisions that you make for Denton.

02:37:59.640 --> 02:38:03.720
 I just, I can't even imagine all of the extra time that you put into this.

02:38:03.720 --> 02:38:11.480
 I so appreciate this fine, fine group of builders and designers that we have, they seem to be

02:38:11.480 --> 02:38:18.200
 top notch and truly, truly able to do a good job but you're hearing from our neighbors,

02:38:18.200 --> 02:38:21.240
 you're hearing from the people who live here.

02:38:21.240 --> 02:38:28.000
 We count too, we matter and my question is, whom do you all represent?

02:38:28.000 --> 02:38:31.400
 The developers are the people of Denton.

02:38:31.400 --> 02:38:38.120
 How many people who live here want more of this kind of development?

02:38:38.120 --> 02:38:43.360
 We need apartments here, we've got two universities, we've got young people moving in, we need

02:38:43.360 --> 02:38:44.360
 some.

02:38:44.360 --> 02:38:50.520
 But golly, any direction you travel in Denton, we're doing really, really well with that.

02:38:50.520 --> 02:38:54.400
 Have you asked the people who live here, do you want more?

02:38:54.400 --> 02:39:00.920
 Because the people with whom I speak are fine with what we have and wouldn't mind as my

02:39:00.920 --> 02:39:03.120
 husband said, "Let's get rid of a few."

02:39:03.120 --> 02:39:05.200
 We have plenty.

02:39:05.200 --> 02:39:14.040
 Let's keep the quality of life for the people who live here and again, whom do you represent?

02:39:14.040 --> 02:39:21.640
 The developers or the people who live here?

02:39:21.640 --> 02:39:24.480
 Thank you.

02:39:24.480 --> 02:39:30.760
 I think what I'll just say to that is we technically don't really represent anyone just because

02:39:30.760 --> 02:39:31.760
 we're not elected.

02:39:31.760 --> 02:39:38.160
 We're a recommending body to city council so we're here to hear any application that

02:39:38.160 --> 02:39:42.640
 comes before the city that requires a P&Z recommendation and that's what we're here

02:39:42.640 --> 02:39:48.680
 to do and we do that to the best of our ability while we hear them.

02:39:48.680 --> 02:39:55.600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item who has not already spoken?

02:39:55.600 --> 02:40:00.120
 Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and we'll open the floor for

02:40:00.120 --> 02:40:04.040
 a motion or discussion.

02:40:04.040 --> 02:40:06.160
 Further questions if needed.

02:40:06.160 --> 02:40:07.160
 Commissioner Cole.

02:40:07.160 --> 02:40:08.920
 Thank you, Chair.

02:40:08.920 --> 02:40:18.440
 I mentioned in the work session the problem I had with this development and it is about

02:40:18.440 --> 02:40:20.600
 the small area plan.

02:40:20.600 --> 02:40:22.720
 Is Northeast Denton special?

02:40:22.720 --> 02:40:23.720
 Absolutely it is.

02:40:23.720 --> 02:40:28.800
 In my opinion, Clear Creek is probably the most environmentally sensitive area we have.

02:40:28.800 --> 02:40:31.800
 I grew up fishing it and this is fishing season right now.

02:40:31.800 --> 02:40:36.520
 All the white bass are up there running up in the creeks.

02:40:36.520 --> 02:40:43.560
 I've been on a small area plan committee that was, you know, recommendations were adopted

02:40:43.560 --> 02:40:46.800
 by P&Z and council unanimously.

02:40:46.800 --> 02:40:49.960
 They're important and I believe in the process.

02:40:49.960 --> 02:40:57.640
 So I want to see the process through and then make my decision but I think we need to go

02:40:57.640 --> 02:40:59.360
 through the process.

02:40:59.360 --> 02:41:01.440
 Thank you.

02:41:01.440 --> 02:41:02.440
 Commissioner McDade.

02:41:02.440 --> 02:41:05.120
 Thank you, Chair.

02:41:05.120 --> 02:41:12.040
 I just want to first off I want to thank everybody for coming out and I can say I'm personally

02:41:12.040 --> 02:41:15.880
 I am not a fan of apartments.

02:41:15.880 --> 02:41:23.800
 I think Denton has too many and I actually, the past month or so when this project came

02:41:23.800 --> 02:41:29.600
 up I actually I don't work too far from Hartley from Hartley Field so two or three times a

02:41:29.600 --> 02:41:35.600
 week I would drive that road and I know the issue you're having.

02:41:35.600 --> 02:41:38.600
 It's horrendous.

02:41:38.600 --> 02:41:44.160
 But my main issue is I don't know how long the stadium and the water park has been there

02:41:44.160 --> 02:41:51.800
 but when they talk about the bike and the sidewalk that's something that should have

02:41:51.800 --> 02:41:54.480
 been in place years ago.

02:41:54.480 --> 02:41:56.960
 I don't think you wait for an apartment complex to come.

02:41:56.960 --> 02:41:59.040
 Now we want to go in and put in safety measures.

02:41:59.040 --> 02:42:05.120
 The safety measures should have been there 10 years ago.

02:42:05.120 --> 02:42:10.640
 But the traffic and all that, that's why I can say without a doubt that I'm going to

02:42:10.640 --> 02:42:18.280
 be a no on this project and pretty much that's all I have to say.

02:42:18.280 --> 02:42:21.960
 We do have a motion on floor.

02:42:21.960 --> 02:42:23.200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

02:42:23.200 --> 02:42:27.920
 I think the feedback from the neighborhood is pretty clear on this.

02:42:27.920 --> 02:42:33.520
 Not only are there safety concerns in terms of traffic but we have concerns in terms of

02:42:33.520 --> 02:42:38.440
 the path the city is going on and that's why we have the northeast area plan taking a look

02:42:38.440 --> 02:42:39.440
 at this.

02:42:39.440 --> 02:42:41.560
 So with that in mind I'm moving to Nile.

02:42:41.560 --> 02:42:46.800
 Commissioner, okay if we could stop so we can continue the discussion please.

02:42:46.800 --> 02:42:49.000
 Commissioner Pruitt.

02:42:49.000 --> 02:42:52.000
 Yeah I'll second that and if you'll permit me a few thoughts.

02:42:52.000 --> 02:42:53.000
 Of course.

02:42:53.000 --> 02:42:57.600
 I'll try to do what I attempt to do and that is make everybody in the room a little bit

02:42:57.600 --> 02:43:02.520
 uneasy because I think that really what we need to think through and what this body is

02:43:02.520 --> 02:43:09.240
 tasked with is understanding complex things and unfortunately you know when everybody's

02:43:09.240 --> 02:43:13.600
 speaking for two minutes you can only try to simplify it.

02:43:13.600 --> 02:43:21.720
 So just to be honest Sherman Drive is bad now especially right at Hartley Field.

02:43:21.720 --> 02:43:23.080
 It's not going to get any better.

02:43:23.080 --> 02:43:26.760
 I don't see a future where that happens.

02:43:26.760 --> 02:43:36.680
 There's a lot of county land as one of the public described it that we don't control.

02:43:36.680 --> 02:43:38.320
 We need homes.

02:43:38.320 --> 02:43:39.320
 That's absolutely true.

02:43:39.320 --> 02:43:44.720
 There was somebody who said that if we don't build it nobody will come.

02:43:44.720 --> 02:43:45.840
 That's not true.

02:43:45.840 --> 02:43:51.120
 What is true is if we don't build then the people who have more money will come until

02:43:51.120 --> 02:43:55.560
 the people who have less money move out because housing will be way more expensive and your

02:43:55.560 --> 02:44:01.440
 children will not be able to stay here.

02:44:01.440 --> 02:44:05.760
 However the question is where.

02:44:05.760 --> 02:44:14.800
 And I think as Commissioner Villarreal put it very well it's a situation where we have

02:44:14.800 --> 02:44:19.920
 a few different options going into the future.

02:44:19.920 --> 02:44:20.920
 Should it go here?

02:44:20.920 --> 02:44:23.920
 Should it go toward the center of town?

02:44:23.920 --> 02:44:29.280
 The only way that this area especially that county land doesn't just all of a sudden spring

02:44:29.280 --> 02:44:36.020
 roots and have 18 subdivisions is if we build 9,000 more homes toward the center of Denton.

02:44:36.020 --> 02:44:39.200
 That has not been happening.

02:44:39.200 --> 02:44:44.840
 So that would be a change with the status quo and that would need a lot of public support

02:44:44.840 --> 02:44:49.240
 to accomplish that.

02:44:49.240 --> 02:44:53.760
 I think we have a good comprehensive plan and often we don't refer to it so I'm just

02:44:53.760 --> 02:44:57.920
 going to read a short excerpt I think that speaks to many of the points that have been

02:44:57.920 --> 02:45:02.200
 made tonight by the public and the commission.

02:45:02.200 --> 02:45:08.040
 In the housing variety section it says outside of Denton's urban core are a number of designated

02:45:08.040 --> 02:45:13.880
 centers and corridors which are targeted to undergo redevelopment from primarily commercial

02:45:13.880 --> 02:45:19.880
 or undeveloped areas to a mixed use character incorporating moderate and high density residential

02:45:19.880 --> 02:45:26.560
 uses in walkable patterns near transit and employment.

02:45:26.560 --> 02:45:34.400
 The means of reinvigorating these areas begins with the creation of area plans.

02:45:34.400 --> 02:45:45.920
 I won't belabor the point but, you know, this plan is a traditional second half of the 21st

02:45:45.920 --> 02:45:50.480
 century, sorry we're not in the second half of the 21st century yet, second half of the

02:45:50.480 --> 02:45:59.760
 20th century hard corner drive to retail with back access doors and a drainage ditch facing

02:45:59.760 --> 02:46:01.840
 the residents behind it.

02:46:01.840 --> 02:46:03.640
 This is not walkable.

02:46:03.640 --> 02:46:12.400
 This is not what our comprehensive plan envisions for reinvigorating these areas.

02:46:12.400 --> 02:46:19.880
 So I'll leave it at that, you know, I will say just one more thing.

02:46:19.880 --> 02:46:23.080
 I understand the length of time that it's taken to get here.

02:46:23.080 --> 02:46:28.320
 I don't put fault at any one person or any entity.

02:46:28.320 --> 02:46:33.000
 I think everybody has worked hard and honestly the site plan is drafted with staff.

02:46:33.000 --> 02:46:38.280
 It looks like staff has done an amazing job at trying to make lemonade from lemons.

02:46:38.280 --> 02:46:45.920
 But sometimes what we have is lemons and we don't, we're not sure that we want lemonade.

02:46:45.920 --> 02:46:47.200
 Okay.

02:46:47.200 --> 02:46:49.620
 So thank you.

02:46:49.620 --> 02:46:52.120
 And I will second.

02:46:52.120 --> 02:46:53.120
 Commissioner Anderson.

02:46:53.120 --> 02:46:54.120
 Thank you, Chair.

02:46:54.120 --> 02:46:59.840
 First, thanks to all the residents that came out and spoke today.

02:46:59.840 --> 02:47:03.960
 As Commissioner Cole said, I'm born and raised and did it my whole life as well.

02:47:03.960 --> 02:47:07.360
 Fished that creek many, many times and used to ride my bike.

02:47:07.360 --> 02:47:10.240
 I still live in the Northeast area, didn't.

02:47:10.240 --> 02:47:11.960
 And that traffic is horrible.

02:47:11.960 --> 02:47:14.320
 I admit that.

02:47:14.320 --> 02:47:17.760
 To Mr. Riley's point, we don't know what's coming later though.

02:47:17.760 --> 02:47:20.720
 It could be something that causes more traffic.

02:47:20.720 --> 02:47:25.560
 Unfortunately, the way I look at it is the city and county kind of had dropped the ball

02:47:25.560 --> 02:47:26.600
 on this.

02:47:26.600 --> 02:47:32.800
 If there was more access roads off the loop, if there was, if they did make Harley Field

02:47:32.800 --> 02:47:37.000
 intersection where long road intersects, it might be a little bit easier.

02:47:37.000 --> 02:47:43.080
 But if there was another road off of Harley Field, they proposed a side access road.

02:47:43.080 --> 02:47:47.360
 If that side access road would go to Harley Field, I think that would alleviate some of

02:47:47.360 --> 02:47:49.280
 the, some of the traffic problems.

02:47:49.280 --> 02:47:54.040
 You could come down Harley Field, exit that side road and come down to the loop instead

02:47:54.040 --> 02:47:58.320
 of going to Harley Field and 428 and trying to take a left.

02:47:58.320 --> 02:47:59.400
 I've driven it many times.

02:47:59.400 --> 02:48:02.140
 I get scared every time I go out there too.

02:48:02.140 --> 02:48:04.880
 We can't put the gentleman sitting here with the plaid shirt on.

02:48:04.880 --> 02:48:06.720
 You said it perfectly earlier.

02:48:06.720 --> 02:48:12.480
 We're letting the kids down and, excuse me, and the thing about it is safety.

02:48:12.480 --> 02:48:18.240
 We have a high school kids like the other lady said, not just football games.

02:48:18.240 --> 02:48:25.200
 They have band competitions, water at the auditorium and she used swimming lessons, parents taking

02:48:25.200 --> 02:48:32.760
 their kids to the skate park, the skate park, anyway, there's a, the, the Gonzales school

02:48:32.760 --> 02:48:33.960
 down the street.

02:48:33.960 --> 02:48:37.400
 They have different random hours than just normal schools.

02:48:37.400 --> 02:48:42.980
 But anyways, that, the traffic is horrendous there.

02:48:42.980 --> 02:48:47.140
 Trying to put those deceleration lanes there, I think that's going to cause an issue.

02:48:47.140 --> 02:48:51.760
 Not only because you're going to try to get into lane one, well the person up here pulling

02:48:51.760 --> 02:48:55.800
 out of lane driveway two might think you're trying to pull into lane one, but you're actually

02:48:55.800 --> 02:49:00.320
 trying to go into lane two and then you pull out in front of them, there's an accident.

02:49:00.320 --> 02:49:03.520
 So I think there's a lot of problems with this thing.

02:49:03.520 --> 02:49:06.240
 I think you guys did a tremendous job on the project.

02:49:06.240 --> 02:49:07.640
 I think it looks great.

02:49:07.640 --> 02:49:12.280
 I just think if there was more access roads to work around it, to get the traffic flowing

02:49:12.280 --> 02:49:14.900
 better, it'd be a done deal.

02:49:14.900 --> 02:49:17.760
 But with the traffic pattern the way it is, it's just horrendous.

02:49:17.760 --> 02:49:19.880
 I can't, unfortunately, I can't help you out on that.

02:49:19.880 --> 02:49:20.880
 I can't vote for it.

02:49:20.880 --> 02:49:21.880
 So thanks.

02:49:21.880 --> 02:49:22.880
 Thank you, Commissioner Anderson.

02:49:22.880 --> 02:49:23.880
 Commissioner Smith.

02:49:23.880 --> 02:49:26.880
 Thank you, Chair.

02:49:26.880 --> 02:49:31.120
 This is what I guess in the six years I've been on PNZ is what I call one of our chicken

02:49:31.120 --> 02:49:38.160
 and egg projects where the concern from the neighborhood is traffic and the conversation

02:49:38.160 --> 02:49:43.960
 is what is the main area in thoroughfare for traffic and it's a text dot controlled road.

02:49:43.960 --> 02:49:48.320
 And sadly enough, text dot is reactive, not proactive.

02:49:48.320 --> 02:49:57.600
 It makes it tough for development community, city planners, neighborhoods to be able to

02:49:57.600 --> 02:50:03.720
 create a safe environment that is conducive for those that wanna live there and those

02:50:03.720 --> 02:50:11.320
 that currently live there since the reaction from the State Highway or the State Department

02:50:11.320 --> 02:50:17.360
 of Transportation is once there is a project there to predicate the need for us to look

02:50:17.360 --> 02:50:20.920
 at it, we will then look at it.

02:50:20.920 --> 02:50:25.240
 With that said, I think what Mr. Standridge brought up, the fact that this property being

02:50:25.240 --> 02:50:33.760
 already zoned suburban corridor also brings this to a chicken and egg project because

02:50:33.760 --> 02:50:39.920
 by right, this could develop as a commercial property and by right, that commercial property

02:50:39.920 --> 02:50:46.840
 could have higher traffic than a mixed use property could.

02:50:46.840 --> 02:50:49.160
 To be honest with you, I'm torn on the project entirely.

02:50:49.160 --> 02:50:54.560
 I think that I hear the neighborhood and I understand and recognize the concerns growing

02:50:54.560 --> 02:51:00.600
 up and did myself understanding how busy and how crazy Hartley Field Road is and how crazy

02:51:00.600 --> 02:51:05.680
 that section of Sherman is and playing at CH Collins and knowing how hectic it is getting

02:51:05.680 --> 02:51:10.560
 in and out of there, that it's a tough project to look at.

02:51:10.560 --> 02:51:16.760
 With that said, I think it's something that needs just be a fair warning to the neighbors

02:51:16.760 --> 02:51:24.040
 who have spoken tonight that whatever ends up happening in the future, it doesn't end

02:51:24.040 --> 02:51:28.220
 with a planning and zoning commission meeting, it doesn't end with city council, it doesn't

02:51:28.220 --> 02:51:33.920
 end with this project or Mr. Standridge, the buyer or the prospective buyer of this property,

02:51:33.920 --> 02:51:39.800
 that it could essentially develop into something worse than what you're here thinking tonight

02:51:39.800 --> 02:51:41.120
 would be.

02:51:41.120 --> 02:51:47.680
 I think that's a fair consideration to take into account and the only difference between

02:51:47.680 --> 02:51:54.400
 tonight and what could be worse is you have no say in what could be worse.

02:51:54.400 --> 02:51:59.040
 You have no weight in it.

02:51:59.040 --> 02:52:04.760
 And I think that really it's just something that has to be said and has to be clear because

02:52:04.760 --> 02:52:09.880
 I think that very clear from what's being said today is that what is going to happen

02:52:09.880 --> 02:52:14.960
 when we come to a vote has been made evident and so I need to make sure that I take the

02:52:14.960 --> 02:52:15.960
 time to say that.

02:52:15.960 --> 02:52:16.960
 Thank you, Chair.

02:52:16.960 --> 02:52:18.480
 Thanks, Commissioner Smith.

02:52:18.480 --> 02:52:23.440
 So, I guess I'll just say a few words and then we'll go ahead and vote.

02:52:23.440 --> 02:52:27.720
 First of all, thank you for everyone from the applicant to our community members who

02:52:27.720 --> 02:52:30.160
 came out to speak tonight.

02:52:30.160 --> 02:52:31.640
 Multiple issues were brought up.

02:52:31.640 --> 02:52:33.080
 Traffic is obviously a problem.

02:52:33.080 --> 02:52:38.120
 We've been talking about this area for the many years that I've been on this board and

02:52:38.120 --> 02:52:43.880
 it's a problem and it will get fixed when, we don't know, we're dealing with two state

02:52:43.880 --> 02:52:45.560
 roads.

02:52:45.560 --> 02:52:51.720
 It's obviously not the developer's problem, whatever is going to go here on this corner.

02:52:51.720 --> 02:52:53.360
 This corner is going to develop.

02:52:53.360 --> 02:52:58.840
 It's zoned SC, which I think is actually proper zoning for this corner.

02:52:58.840 --> 02:53:02.560
 But our future land use does say community mixed use.

02:53:02.560 --> 02:53:06.780
 The request tonight is not, it's against the future land use map.

02:53:06.780 --> 02:53:08.760
 It's not community mixed use.

02:53:08.760 --> 02:53:14.120
 It's a very nice looking multifamily development.

02:53:14.120 --> 02:53:16.440
 It really does look fantastic.

02:53:16.440 --> 02:53:21.760
 I think this is a really bad location for it and I think we as a city would be giving

02:53:21.760 --> 02:53:25.320
 up a prime commercial corner.

02:53:25.320 --> 02:53:33.120
 We don't have a whole lot left in the city to develop well.

02:53:33.120 --> 02:53:40.920
 I understand the timing with the small area plan is poor for you all, but it's so important.

02:53:40.920 --> 02:53:44.720
 Development is something that we have wanted to do for this area for so many years because

02:53:44.720 --> 02:53:46.280
 we need a plan for this area.

02:53:46.280 --> 02:53:53.280
 If you're not from here, this is a very special, special area of our community.

02:53:53.280 --> 02:53:55.080
 Development is going to happen.

02:53:55.080 --> 02:54:00.400
 Obviously it already has, but what we need to do the rest of the way to preserve the

02:54:00.400 --> 02:54:06.600
 uniqueness and the special character of this area is to have a plan and develop it well.

02:54:06.600 --> 02:54:12.520
 I do think again that suburban corridor sticking with our future land use and community mixed

02:54:12.520 --> 02:54:14.840
 use I think is good.

02:54:14.840 --> 02:54:21.720
 I hope what will happen is the small area plan will determine what goes there and how

02:54:21.720 --> 02:54:28.000
 the rest of this is going to develop and steer that forward.

02:54:28.000 --> 02:54:34.120
 Unfortunately, the request before us tonight, I can't support basically the location.

02:54:34.120 --> 02:54:38.640
 I know it was brought up by a speaker that, well, this type of development is working

02:54:38.640 --> 02:54:43.080
 on the other side, and it is, and it's working really well on the other side, except it's

02:54:43.080 --> 02:54:47.400
 the other side, which is very different than this side of the loop.

02:54:47.400 --> 02:54:51.160
 It really is.

02:54:51.160 --> 02:54:57.400
 I do think that we have to pause, let the small area plan play out, and development

02:54:57.400 --> 02:55:02.440
 will happen hopefully in the right direction for our city.

02:55:02.440 --> 02:55:04.840
 With that, thank you again for everyone.

02:55:04.840 --> 02:55:17.760
 Let's go ahead and vote on the board.

02:55:17.760 --> 02:55:21.440
 That motion does carry 6-1.

02:55:21.440 --> 02:55:27.160
 I'm going to go ahead and pause at 8.30 p.m. here.

02:55:27.160 --> 02:55:28.160
 We'll let the room clear out.

02:55:28.160 --> 02:55:32.640
 We'll come back and hear our next public hearing.

02:55:32.640 --> 02:55:41.640
 Five minutes.

02:55:41.640 --> 02:55:42.640
 Welcome back.

02:55:42.640 --> 02:55:43.640
 Thank you for letting us take that pause.

02:55:43.640 --> 02:55:48.440
 I will call us back to order at 8.42 p.m.

02:55:48.440 --> 02:55:54.760
 Next on our agenda is Item 5B, PD-220010C.

02:55:54.760 --> 02:55:58.400
 Mia is going to come up for presentation.

02:55:58.400 --> 02:56:02.600
 That public hearing was opened and has remained open.

02:56:02.600 --> 02:56:15.920
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Mia Hines, Associate Planner.

02:56:15.920 --> 02:56:21.320
 This item is a request to rezone just under 13 acres located at the northwest corner of

02:56:21.320 --> 02:56:26.600
 Teasley Lane and Ryan Road from PDMN to PDSC.

02:56:26.600 --> 02:56:31.860
 Under the current PDMN, permitted uses are those commercial uses that are permitted under

02:56:31.860 --> 02:56:38.760
 the former NRMU zoning district, but the site would be subject to the current MN development

02:56:38.760 --> 02:56:40.000
 standards.

02:56:40.000 --> 02:56:45.520
 There's a hodgepodge, a mix of development code requirements and references that are

02:56:45.520 --> 02:56:47.780
 currently applicable to this site.

02:56:47.780 --> 02:56:54.400
 This zoning request would permit certain commercial uses appropriate for this context and that

02:56:54.400 --> 02:56:59.200
 development regulations with those use restrictions are included in your backup.

02:56:59.200 --> 02:57:03.560
 The base zoning would, of course, be SC and so those permitted uses would fall under the

02:57:03.560 --> 02:57:04.920
 SC category.

02:57:04.920 --> 02:57:10.200
 Additionally, this request would require compliance with the current development code.

02:57:10.200 --> 02:57:15.140
 It would just remove any reference to the 2002 development code and bring everything

02:57:15.140 --> 02:57:17.160
 up to compliance with our current code.

02:57:17.160 --> 02:57:22.720
 It would also require additional context sensitive site design considerations considering the

02:57:22.720 --> 02:57:31.160
 recent expansion of Teasley Lane as well as the existing residential to the west of this

02:57:31.160 --> 02:57:36.080
 property and some of the growth that this area has experienced.

02:57:36.080 --> 02:57:40.000
 Just to give you a brief reminder, this is one of the first overlay PDs that you are

02:57:40.000 --> 02:57:44.520
 seeing since we've made that split within our development code.

02:57:44.520 --> 02:57:50.560
 You might be used to for PD seeing development regulations as well as a development plan.

02:57:50.560 --> 02:57:55.360
 In this case, it's just the development regulations with those additional overlay restrictions

02:57:55.360 --> 02:58:00.920
 as that's the separation between this overlay, this application and the standard PD that you're

02:58:00.920 --> 02:58:03.600
 used to seeing.

02:58:03.600 --> 02:58:11.520
 So staff did review this up against our criteria for approval in subchapter two.

02:58:11.520 --> 02:58:15.480
 Some of the things that I wanted to call out within this presentation is that this proposed

02:58:15.480 --> 02:58:21.120
 PD would again be subject or allow the site to be subject to the current development standards

02:58:21.120 --> 02:58:28.120
 of our DDC as well as respond to some of the growth that the area has experienced.

02:58:28.120 --> 02:58:36.160
 Additionally, the proposed PD builds on additional buffers that we currently have in place and

02:58:36.160 --> 02:58:40.640
 to minimize adverse impacts on the surrounding less intensive uses like the residential that

02:58:40.640 --> 02:58:47.120
 I mentioned earlier, as well as this proposed rezoning is in line with the community mixed

02:58:47.120 --> 02:58:52.720
 use future land use map designation of our DIT and 2040 comprehensive plan.

02:58:52.720 --> 02:58:57.720
 Speaking of which, that designation again is community mixed use.

02:58:57.720 --> 02:59:04.180
 The proposed PD is consistent, a base zoning to SC would be consistent with that zoning

02:59:04.180 --> 02:59:09.600
 district in this case, but that PD is being proposed to add some of those additional context

02:59:09.600 --> 02:59:14.440
 sensitive design standards and restrict some of those uses that again might not mesh with

02:59:14.440 --> 02:59:17.280
 some of the surrounding areas.

02:59:17.280 --> 02:59:21.080
 As far as development standards, again the PD regulations and some of the things that

02:59:21.080 --> 02:59:29.640
 would be required are it would be subject to the existing SC zoning development standards.

02:59:29.640 --> 02:59:33.440
 Those items have been included in your backup, but I did want to note that since the first

02:59:33.440 --> 02:59:40.880
 time that this body heard this case in February, the applicant has proposed to add a cap on

02:59:40.880 --> 02:59:45.080
 the amount of drive-through facilities that could be permitted within this PD.

02:59:45.080 --> 02:59:49.440
 They are proposing to make that three and that would be what would be permitted by right

02:59:49.440 --> 02:59:54.840
 on either track one or track two within this PD.

02:59:54.840 --> 02:59:59.560
 That has been added to the PD regulations and within our recommendation since the publication

02:59:59.560 --> 03:00:03.940
 or as I mentioned in the work session since the publication of this item, there are some

03:00:03.940 --> 03:00:10.280
 changes to clarify what would be required within that area or for that specific land

03:00:10.280 --> 03:00:12.520
 use.

03:00:12.520 --> 03:00:18.080
 Just speaking to some of the context sensitivity, this area has experienced significant growth.

03:00:18.080 --> 03:00:24.080
 The image to your left is from an aerial from 2017 and the image to your right is an aerial

03:00:24.080 --> 03:00:30.720
 from 2023, as you can see several of the sites that were vacant just six years ago, undeveloped

03:00:30.720 --> 03:00:35.240
 just six years ago have now been either built out or under construction to the point of

03:00:35.240 --> 03:00:38.680
 being built out.

03:00:38.680 --> 03:00:46.280
 The commercial piece of this would be supported by that growth in this area.

03:00:46.280 --> 03:00:54.060
 Additionally, Teasley Lane has grown from a two-lane roadway to a six-lane divided roadway

03:00:54.060 --> 03:00:58.920
 and again, so some of those mixed use neighborhood standards that might be ideal for a lower

03:00:58.920 --> 03:01:08.480
 classified lane or roadway that's not as wide, not as many lanes is not necessarily appropriate

03:01:08.480 --> 03:01:13.560
 with the expansion of Teasley Lane and so again, this would provide for a development

03:01:13.560 --> 03:01:17.200
 that would be more appropriate for that.

03:01:17.200 --> 03:01:21.920
 In accordance with our code and state law, we did perform public outreach at the time

03:01:21.920 --> 03:01:28.200
 of this report, we had received three responses in favor.

03:01:28.200 --> 03:01:33.200
 Those are being the multifamily complex to the west of the southern tract as well as

03:01:33.200 --> 03:01:37.320
 two property owners to the west of the northern tract.

03:01:37.320 --> 03:01:43.160
 Those are single family homes and then one commercial business owner responded in opposition

03:01:43.160 --> 03:01:47.440
 just south of Ryan Road.

03:01:47.440 --> 03:01:53.120
 With that stuff is recommending approval as it does comply with our DDC and all of those

03:01:53.120 --> 03:02:00.600
 items that I've mentioned before and this is just that clarified version of the PD regulations.

03:02:00.600 --> 03:02:06.080
 This would replace that last paragraph in section two of the PD regulations and part

03:02:06.080 --> 03:02:07.080
 of your backup.

03:02:07.080 --> 03:02:11.560
 With that, the applicant is here with the presentation but I will stand for any questions

03:02:11.560 --> 03:02:16.560
 that you have for me at this time.

03:02:16.560 --> 03:02:21.680
 Commissioner Villareal.

03:02:21.680 --> 03:02:26.440
 Real quick, how many drive through restaurants or drive through establishments would you

03:02:26.440 --> 03:02:31.780
 expect to be able to fit on these tracks if the cap wasn't there?

03:02:31.780 --> 03:02:33.260
 So it depends.

03:02:33.260 --> 03:02:40.020
 I think you could probably configure them to work that way for all of those sites.

03:02:40.020 --> 03:02:45.560
 I think for the preliminary plat that was approved in the summer of last year had, I

03:02:45.560 --> 03:02:50.440
 believe it was seven total lots but I don't think that's the intent of the applicant

03:02:50.440 --> 03:02:56.920
 but just I think they would all fall within the SC district so the land use would be permitted

03:02:56.920 --> 03:02:59.040
 on other of the tracks.

03:02:59.040 --> 03:03:04.280
 That was going to be questions at the moment Mia.

03:03:04.280 --> 03:03:05.280
 Thank you very much.

03:03:05.280 --> 03:03:12.380
 I'm going to call it Mr. Johnson because I believe he has a presentation before we get

03:03:12.380 --> 03:03:30.360
 to a couple cards I have.

03:03:30.360 --> 03:03:31.360
 Good evening.

03:03:31.360 --> 03:03:32.360
 Good evening again.

03:03:32.360 --> 03:03:33.360
 Greg Johnson, 3190 Teasley.

03:03:33.360 --> 03:03:36.000
 Thank you for your service as always.

03:03:36.000 --> 03:03:38.160
 Pays great.

03:03:38.160 --> 03:03:47.440
 So I'm not going to piggyback on top of what Mia's already presented but by way of background,

03:03:47.440 --> 03:03:53.800
 as I mentioned when we first started talking about this, the legacy PD terminology can

03:03:53.800 --> 03:03:55.080
 be really confusing, right?

03:03:55.080 --> 03:03:59.000
 So when we say PDMN it kind of comes across as if this was a PD, right?

03:03:59.000 --> 03:04:03.500
 This is a legacy PD because of when the citywide rezoning was done.

03:04:03.500 --> 03:04:08.160
 PD zoning, any parcel that had zoning on it with any kind of a condition, like in this

03:04:08.160 --> 03:04:15.360
 case no multi-family, it became a PD so when we say PDMN, I think it seemed to some of

03:04:15.360 --> 03:04:18.600
 you guys the first time we talked about it like well it's already a PD.

03:04:18.600 --> 03:04:27.280
 So it's old, falls under the 2002 DDC, the underlying MN zoning presents many, many challenges

03:04:27.280 --> 03:04:34.040
 to be able to develop the site and when we talked to staff about it the first time, basically

03:04:34.040 --> 03:04:37.760
 the way that the staff responded was hey this is an opportunity to clean up what's kind

03:04:37.760 --> 03:04:44.760
 of a really messy PD, not anybody's fault but it's really old.

03:04:44.760 --> 03:04:48.000
 So what I wanted to do with my presentation was basically say here's the concerns that

03:04:48.000 --> 03:04:52.360
 I heard from you guys the first time we talked about this and I hope to be able to address

03:04:52.360 --> 03:04:53.360
 those for you.

03:04:53.360 --> 03:04:58.220
 So the concerns that I heard that I had in my notes, I went back and watched the meeting,

03:04:58.220 --> 03:05:03.200
 I thought my jokes were funny by the way, but they still aren't clearly.

03:05:03.200 --> 03:05:09.040
 So the first concern was school children crossing Teasley to Nelson, increased traffic causing

03:05:09.040 --> 03:05:13.160
 congestion for the neighborhood, like to see a signal at Teasley and Hunters Creek, it's

03:05:13.160 --> 03:05:16.240
 already a PD, you guys can read right.

03:05:16.240 --> 03:05:20.960
 Honestly I wasn't prepared to answer some of these concerns at the first meeting, I didn't

03:05:20.960 --> 03:05:25.960
 really expect much of that discussion or push back just because of the way the conversations

03:05:25.960 --> 03:05:29.880
 have gone with staff and so I'm glad to have the opportunity to address those concerns

03:05:29.880 --> 03:05:31.800
 today in a better way.

03:05:31.800 --> 03:05:36.160
 So first one, school children crossing Teasley, I thought this was the case, I didn't really

03:05:36.160 --> 03:05:40.640
 get a chance to come back up to answer questions at the end but you can see the school boundary

03:05:40.640 --> 03:05:45.440
 map here, the reason there's no crossing guard or crosswalk there is no kids have to cross

03:05:45.440 --> 03:05:49.280
 Teasley to go to school at Nelson.

03:05:49.280 --> 03:05:53.880
 Secondly, increased traffic causing congestion for the neighborhood, I thought it important

03:05:53.880 --> 03:05:58.840
 to point out when this neighborhood, which is the neighborhood Teasley trails adjacent

03:05:58.840 --> 03:06:05.480
 to the west was developed, it was developed with three main entrances, the main main being

03:06:05.480 --> 03:06:10.800
 main entrance number one on Ryan, but then there's another main entrance on Teasley at

03:06:10.800 --> 03:06:17.000
 Ranchman and then another one on Teasley at, I can't read the name of that street, Hunters

03:06:17.000 --> 03:06:22.440
 Creek Road was put in because of the apartments, the apartments had two modes of egress, negress,

03:06:22.440 --> 03:06:29.400
 there was a way to stub it into the neighborhood for some future point, but the congestion

03:06:29.400 --> 03:06:35.040
 for the neighborhood, the neighborhood has three entrances already today, this is a fourth,

03:06:35.040 --> 03:06:41.160
 really see it as an ancillary access point for the neighborhood.

03:06:41.160 --> 03:06:47.980
 So you can see I mean very major inferences here, the entrance one which is on Ryan, which

03:06:47.980 --> 03:06:54.080
 obviously is signalized at Teasley and then Ranchman and then the third one, the Ranchman

03:06:54.080 --> 03:06:58.120
 is a very large entrance as well.

03:06:58.120 --> 03:07:02.280
 Next concern, we'd like to see a signal at Teasley and Hunters Creek, we would too, I

03:07:02.280 --> 03:07:08.160
 mean commercial users want a signal and so I heard the comments and obviously you guys

03:07:08.160 --> 03:07:12.620
 have seen the comments from some of the folks that live in Teasley trails, many of them

03:07:12.620 --> 03:07:17.760
 from the from the neighborhood and their Facebook group, you guys got basically the same message

03:07:17.760 --> 03:07:19.040
 over and over.

03:07:19.040 --> 03:07:25.200
 We don't want to see this thing happen without a signal, clearly, right, and we have petitioned

03:07:25.200 --> 03:07:28.360
 text dot, we want a signal here too.

03:07:28.360 --> 03:07:33.340
 Since the last meeting we had Kimley Horn update their traffic study to determine if

03:07:33.340 --> 03:07:38.360
 these lots were built out with the proposed use types that we have conceptualized there,

03:07:38.360 --> 03:07:42.840
 right, we have two users today and others that will ultimately come and we just showed

03:07:42.840 --> 03:07:45.760
 a mix of what would likely go there.

03:07:45.760 --> 03:07:51.140
 The signal would warrant, it would meet text dot's warrant requirements once built out

03:07:51.140 --> 03:07:55.720
 with these commercial uses as we have shown.

03:07:55.720 --> 03:08:00.840
 But that's all we can do, right, we can't we can't make text dot put a signal.

03:08:00.840 --> 03:08:07.640
 We have, I've asked them to consider if they knew the signal would warrant when all the

03:08:07.640 --> 03:08:14.000
 lots were built out, would they consider allowing the signal to go in on the front end because

03:08:14.000 --> 03:08:17.680
 of the concern that the gentleman from Summit Oaks brought up last time which is we can't

03:08:17.680 --> 03:08:23.040
 see trying to get out because of the way Teasley was built right up against their neighborhood

03:08:23.040 --> 03:08:24.200
 brick wall.

03:08:24.200 --> 03:08:26.680
 I went and drove it, he's exactly right.

03:08:26.680 --> 03:08:30.680
 It's a very dangerous place to exit and Summit Oaks doesn't really have another way to get

03:08:30.680 --> 03:08:38.160
 out and so I have proposed to someone at text dot that just ask them the question.

03:08:38.160 --> 03:08:43.320
 If you know ultimately it will warrant, would you allow it to go in on the front end because

03:08:43.320 --> 03:08:49.000
 you've got a problem at Summit Oaks just like you created on 2499 with the wall at Hickory

03:08:49.000 --> 03:08:50.000
 Creek.

03:08:50.000 --> 03:08:53.200
 It's the same situation, you just have to keep inching until you can see.

03:08:53.200 --> 03:08:58.320
 Don't have an answer yet, you don't get an answer from text dot in a week or two or a

03:08:58.320 --> 03:09:00.840
 month or two.

03:09:00.840 --> 03:09:05.220
 But what I did get in the conversation, it's highly likely that text dot will ultimately

03:09:05.220 --> 03:09:10.840
 approve a signal at Hunters Creek or Ranchman which is then next to the north because of

03:09:10.840 --> 03:09:13.720
 all the traffic coming from the east side.

03:09:13.720 --> 03:09:19.480
 The point is if a signal happens at Hunters Creek or it happens at Ranchman, either way

03:09:19.480 --> 03:09:22.240
 the neighborhood gets a signalized intersection on Teasley.

03:09:22.240 --> 03:09:27.760
 We would hope that it would happen at Hunters Creek but we don't have any control over what

03:09:27.760 --> 03:09:28.760
 text dot does.

03:09:28.760 --> 03:09:32.560
 So we've asked them to consider and we hope that will happen.

03:09:32.560 --> 03:09:37.000
 I think I mentioned this already but one of the concerns was it's already a PD, why not

03:09:37.000 --> 03:09:39.160
 develop under the existing PD.

03:09:39.160 --> 03:09:45.040
 It's because it wasn't a PD, it's a legacy PD so there's no PD requirements in it.

03:09:45.040 --> 03:09:48.560
 It wasn't put in as a planned development.

03:09:48.560 --> 03:09:52.560
 So the only thing in the PD is you can't build apartments.

03:09:52.560 --> 03:09:56.640
 And so which is why we've worked with the staff to put these additional things that

03:09:56.640 --> 03:10:02.960
 the staff asked for to make Hunters Creek more of a nicer entrance into the neighborhood

03:10:02.960 --> 03:10:07.120
 and into the commercial development.

03:10:07.120 --> 03:10:12.840
 Again the underlying zoning presents a challenge which is MN is a fantastic zoning class for

03:10:12.840 --> 03:10:16.040
 like urban redevelopment, make areas walkable.

03:10:16.040 --> 03:10:20.920
 You think about Carroll Boulevard here close to downtown and some of these infill, pushing

03:10:20.920 --> 03:10:25.520
 the buildings up against the street makes it more walkable and inviting.

03:10:25.520 --> 03:10:30.300
 The challenge with MN on a suburban corridor is you can't circulate the buildings.

03:10:30.300 --> 03:10:33.080
 So where's your fire truck turn around, you know all those issues right.

03:10:33.080 --> 03:10:41.480
 So I think Tina said at the very first meeting you know at some point we need you to trust

03:10:41.480 --> 03:10:42.640
 your experts right.

03:10:42.640 --> 03:10:47.600
 And so not to say that you guys aren't smart and do all this but the staff has worked through

03:10:47.600 --> 03:10:53.320
 this and the SC underlying zoning was their recommendation to solve some of these issues.

03:10:53.320 --> 03:10:59.580
 So without it, what essentially happens here is every one of these lots becomes its own

03:10:59.580 --> 03:11:00.920
 PD.

03:11:00.920 --> 03:11:08.040
 You'd have to look at essentially because of the PD modifications that would be required

03:11:08.040 --> 03:11:14.320
 for anyone a lot to develop, you'd have seven basically individual PDs to consider.

03:11:14.320 --> 03:11:17.680
 Which is what started all this in the first place.

03:11:17.680 --> 03:11:24.600
 Instead we just knocked this out in one conversation.

03:11:24.600 --> 03:11:29.120
 Seven public notices in addition to the two already done, you know four neighborhood meetings

03:11:29.120 --> 03:11:32.000
 etc, etc.

03:11:32.000 --> 03:11:35.040
 We had two neighborhood meetings the first time around.

03:11:35.040 --> 03:11:39.520
 We had no opposition from anybody that lived in the neighborhood.

03:11:39.520 --> 03:11:43.760
 Much less 200 or 500 feet.

03:11:43.760 --> 03:11:47.560
 And so then we've had two more since then.

03:11:47.560 --> 03:11:51.480
 Teasley is a major suburban corridor and I thought this was kind of telling right.

03:11:51.480 --> 03:11:55.000
 Six lanes or more through eight different cities.

03:11:55.000 --> 03:11:59.160
 And so this isn't a neighborhood street right is my point.

03:11:59.160 --> 03:12:05.360
 What's going to develop on a major suburban corridor, this is what this is what's going

03:12:05.360 --> 03:12:06.360
 to happen.

03:12:06.360 --> 03:12:08.520
 In fact that's what's already there.

03:12:08.520 --> 03:12:17.520
 So if you look at Teasley and Wind River, you've got drive-through, drive-through, drive-through,

03:12:17.520 --> 03:12:23.240
 retail, drive-through.

03:12:23.240 --> 03:12:32.160
 Teasley Robinson Road, sea store gas, drive-through, storage, you get it.

03:12:32.160 --> 03:12:39.960
 Teasley Hickory Creek, you know this is Kroger, this is Sprouts, this is Walgreens.

03:12:39.960 --> 03:12:48.640
 One, two, three, four, five drive-throughs, drive-throughs across the street.

03:12:48.640 --> 03:12:50.600
 And so here's the subject site right.

03:12:50.600 --> 03:12:57.040
 Here's Walmart, automotive, retail, liquor.

03:12:57.040 --> 03:13:03.160
 And so this is what goes on a suburban corridor on these types of corners.

03:13:03.160 --> 03:13:09.200
 And what we attempted to do with the staff in the conversations was hear the staff of

03:13:09.200 --> 03:13:10.200
 the neighborhood.

03:13:10.200 --> 03:13:11.200
 Like what do you want to see there?

03:13:11.200 --> 03:13:12.440
 What do you think people would have a problem with?

03:13:12.440 --> 03:13:15.160
 And so we've gone through and we've eliminated.

03:13:15.160 --> 03:13:18.440
 And in fact you know you guys all know that I had a conversation with Margie after the

03:13:18.440 --> 03:13:20.160
 first meeting.

03:13:20.160 --> 03:13:23.560
 I wanted to get her input, she's been doing this a long time, and so we've added other

03:13:23.560 --> 03:13:24.560
 things.

03:13:24.560 --> 03:13:30.600
 No automotive repair, minor or major, no fuel, etc. because I value the input of people that

03:13:30.600 --> 03:13:34.660
 have been around a long time and seen a lot of this stuff.

03:13:34.660 --> 03:13:40.780
 We had, again, four neighborhood meetings, nobody signed up for the third or the fourth.

03:13:40.780 --> 03:13:41.780
 And I'll wrap up.

03:13:41.780 --> 03:13:47.180
 You've already seen, I didn't know there, you saw me as Matt.

03:13:47.180 --> 03:13:51.360
 We have people that are adjacent to the site here in support.

03:13:51.360 --> 03:13:56.760
 Obviously the apartment complex here, you've got a big buffer in between the existing,

03:13:56.760 --> 03:13:57.760
 which makes it pretty unique.

03:13:57.760 --> 03:14:02.660
 If you look back up to some of these, Walmart, Kroger, Sprouts, a lot of these, I mean they're

03:14:02.660 --> 03:14:03.920
 right up against the houses.

03:14:03.920 --> 03:14:06.160
 We've got a really nice buffer.

03:14:06.160 --> 03:14:11.040
 This is a huge drainage easement through here, so nothing can ever go there.

03:14:11.040 --> 03:14:17.760
 And the fact that the only two people who responded of all these houses here are in

03:14:17.760 --> 03:14:18.760
 favor.

03:14:18.760 --> 03:14:23.240
 So in summary, obviously the uses are consistent with the master plan, they're also consistent

03:14:23.240 --> 03:14:27.480
 with what's already built up and down this corridor.

03:14:27.480 --> 03:14:32.720
 The staff's recommendation of the SC underlying zoning makes sense for a lot of reasons.

03:14:32.720 --> 03:14:38.080
 The concerns from the first meeting seem to all be answered or addressed, in my opinion.

03:14:38.080 --> 03:14:42.920
 We have no neighbors opposed, only neighbors in favor.

03:14:42.920 --> 03:14:48.160
 And we would request your approval and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

03:14:48.160 --> 03:14:49.160
 Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

03:14:49.160 --> 03:14:51.520
 I do have a question.

03:14:51.520 --> 03:14:59.040
 Regarding the fence that is part of the PD regulations that's going to be built on that,

03:14:59.040 --> 03:15:05.400
 the track where there's residential crack, that'll be a fence happening there.

03:15:05.400 --> 03:15:09.840
 Can that be constructed like before development happens or what is the plan for that?

03:15:09.840 --> 03:15:15.400
 I would love to see it happen like at the beginning before anything happens, but.

03:15:15.400 --> 03:15:16.400
 Sure.

03:15:16.400 --> 03:15:20.280
 So that actually came from the first neighborhood meeting, this gentleman here, I don't recall

03:15:20.280 --> 03:15:22.960
 his last name, Chris something.

03:15:22.960 --> 03:15:29.080
 We've got this big buffer, right, of the drainage easement, which really is full of trees.

03:15:29.080 --> 03:15:30.080
 So that'll all remain.

03:15:30.080 --> 03:15:33.080
 But one of the things he said was, you know, in the winter I can actually hear the cars

03:15:33.080 --> 03:15:35.720
 on Teasley when all the leaves fall, et cetera.

03:15:35.720 --> 03:15:37.460
 What about a fence?

03:15:37.460 --> 03:15:42.480
 And so I just said, I don't think anybody have a problem with that.

03:15:42.480 --> 03:15:48.080
 I talked to the seller, which is who I represent, he won't be developing the sites, but I said,

03:15:48.080 --> 03:15:52.740
 would you agree to this, which would mean anybody we sold a site to would be required

03:15:52.740 --> 03:15:54.600
 to build a fence.

03:15:54.600 --> 03:15:59.320
 And I said, I think we should make it a requirement that it's on the commercial side, right.

03:15:59.320 --> 03:16:05.100
 So that all of the green space and that buffer is seen by the residential and not really

03:16:05.100 --> 03:16:09.620
 to the benefit of the commercial because commercial tenants don't really care, right.

03:16:09.620 --> 03:16:12.120
 It's back there, you see the top of the trees.

03:16:12.120 --> 03:16:19.520
 So as I understand it, that would have to get built as a part of any commercial development

03:16:19.520 --> 03:16:24.760
 that happened here and it would have to be built outside of the drainage easement on

03:16:24.760 --> 03:16:26.560
 the commercial side.

03:16:26.560 --> 03:16:29.920
 So I don't know that, I don't know that it could all be built at one time.

03:16:29.920 --> 03:16:33.140
 So it's just going to be built piecemeal, though?

03:16:33.140 --> 03:16:38.400
 Well, I mean, I guess that the staff could tell us, I don't know how, if you could go

03:16:38.400 --> 03:16:43.240
 like, could you go get a permit just to build a fence on those two different properties

03:16:43.240 --> 03:16:44.240
 prior to development?

03:16:44.240 --> 03:16:45.240
 Okay.

03:16:45.240 --> 03:16:46.240
 I'm not sure.

03:16:46.240 --> 03:16:53.240
 But I would also expect, though, that in all likelihood, like those two lots are in contract.

03:16:53.240 --> 03:16:57.400
 So in all likelihood, and they're just waiting for this to be completed because otherwise

03:16:57.400 --> 03:17:02.800
 they're going to submit their own SUP or PD amendment request, whatever you call it.

03:17:02.800 --> 03:17:07.320
 So I would expect that those two likely get developed on a very similar timeline.

03:17:07.320 --> 03:17:11.600
 Obviously, we couldn't control that once they bought it.

03:17:11.600 --> 03:17:12.600
 So I don't know how to answer.

03:17:12.600 --> 03:17:16.400
 I'll get with staff on that and see.

03:17:16.400 --> 03:17:26.720
 If it is the city's desire that that fence get built like all at once prior to any structures

03:17:26.720 --> 03:17:31.180
 getting built, and the city can tell us how to do that, like, because maybe it's just

03:17:31.180 --> 03:17:37.280
 a fence permit, then I'm sure my seller would go and just build the fence, right?

03:17:37.280 --> 03:17:41.480
 And then just get reimbursed by the buyers as they come.

03:17:41.480 --> 03:17:44.480
 And I don't think you'd have a problem with that.

03:17:44.480 --> 03:17:45.480
 Okay.

03:17:45.480 --> 03:17:46.480
 Thank you.

03:17:46.480 --> 03:17:47.480
 Any other questions for?

03:17:47.480 --> 03:17:48.480
 Okay.

03:17:48.480 --> 03:17:49.480
 Thanks.

03:17:49.480 --> 03:17:50.480
 Thank you.

03:17:50.480 --> 03:17:56.440
 Mia or Tina, did you want to just jump in on my question or?

03:17:56.440 --> 03:17:57.440
 Sure.

03:17:57.440 --> 03:18:01.920
 I guess with respect to the fence, I think some of it's going to depend upon what type

03:18:01.920 --> 03:18:02.920
 of fence it is.

03:18:02.920 --> 03:18:11.160
 For example, if it's a masonry wall versus a wood fence, typically those screening devices

03:18:11.160 --> 03:18:15.480
 get constructed at such time when each of the individual lots develop, because that's

03:18:15.480 --> 03:18:20.440
 when all the construction activities happen, that's when the sites are graded.

03:18:20.440 --> 03:18:24.440
 If this is something more structural in nature, like a masonry wall, then presumably if he's

03:18:24.440 --> 03:18:28.200
 going to build it all at once, it would have substantial grading work already occurring

03:18:28.200 --> 03:18:35.520
 on the site and getting the development of the site more prepped, if you will.

03:18:35.520 --> 03:18:41.240
 I think the proposal to have the fencing installed prior to issuance of a CO is reasonable.

03:18:41.240 --> 03:18:45.240
 Mia, what kind of screening is required in the PD?

03:18:45.240 --> 03:18:51.040
 I seem to recall there's some point selection choices that might be available.

03:18:51.040 --> 03:18:52.040
 Yeah.

03:18:52.040 --> 03:18:56.800
 It just specifies that screening is required, because usually it's not a requirement.

03:18:56.800 --> 03:19:01.520
 We have the buffers between commercial and residential, but it does not specifically

03:19:01.520 --> 03:19:03.880
 require a wall or screen.

03:19:03.880 --> 03:19:08.180
 It's a part of the points, and so this just requires a fence.

03:19:08.180 --> 03:19:09.180
 Right.

03:19:09.180 --> 03:19:15.160
 I know we're making it required because we're writing it into this PD, so we probably need

03:19:15.160 --> 03:19:18.360
 to clarify what kind of fence are we building.

03:19:18.360 --> 03:19:24.520
 I think we would, or the way it reads, it could be anything, right?

03:19:24.520 --> 03:19:27.960
 What we're just saying, a fence shall be constructed.

03:19:27.960 --> 03:19:32.760
 Per the specific section of the DDC.

03:19:32.760 --> 03:19:37.080
 The materials that are permitted under that, the section 7.2.8.

03:19:37.080 --> 03:19:43.160
 Whatever materials are offered, and I would trust that they would have to be the same.

03:19:43.160 --> 03:19:48.600
 Whatever is decided when the first track develops.

03:19:48.600 --> 03:19:51.960
 Unless you want that included in the plan development district, that could be.

03:19:51.960 --> 03:19:55.440
 As of right now, what we did was we tried to rely upon the standards that are within

03:19:55.440 --> 03:19:56.440
 the DDC.

03:19:56.440 --> 03:20:00.880
 Obviously, the plan development district provides for a wider buffer, and I believe increased

03:20:00.880 --> 03:20:05.760
 points that the applicant has to choose from, but we were relying upon the standards in

03:20:05.760 --> 03:20:10.520
 the PD that any developer of the individual lots could choose from.

03:20:10.520 --> 03:20:15.960
 Again, I guess the reason I'm ... I'm just trying to get with whatever was discussed

03:20:15.960 --> 03:20:16.960
 at the neighborhood meeting.

03:20:16.960 --> 03:20:18.440
 I wasn't there.

03:20:18.440 --> 03:20:23.040
 This came as a result of the neighborhood meeting, so what are they anticipating is going ... Are

03:20:23.040 --> 03:20:26.120
 they thinking it's a masonry wall fence, or ...

03:20:26.120 --> 03:20:29.880
 To me, that'd be the applicant to defer.

03:20:29.880 --> 03:20:30.880
 Yeah.

03:20:30.880 --> 03:20:31.880
 Right.

03:20:31.880 --> 03:20:32.880
 Yeah, I know.

03:20:32.880 --> 03:20:33.880
 You obviously don't, but yeah.

03:20:33.880 --> 03:20:40.920
 Mia was on the call on the video meeting, but my recollection was would you build a

03:20:40.920 --> 03:20:47.320
 fence in addition to ... Because I think the answer was, well, screening would count.

03:20:47.320 --> 03:20:48.320
 Right.

03:20:48.320 --> 03:20:51.760
 He said, "Well, would you build a fence in addition to, because when the leaves fall,

03:20:51.760 --> 03:20:52.760
 et cetera, et cetera?"

03:20:52.760 --> 03:20:53.760
 So we said, "Yeah, sure.

03:20:53.760 --> 03:20:54.760
 We will build a fence."

03:20:54.760 --> 03:20:58.200
 Right, but no one discussed what that would look like or ...

03:20:58.200 --> 03:21:01.480
 Because we knew that we would just have to ... We would have to abide by whatever the

03:21:01.480 --> 03:21:03.280
 code says in terms of material.

03:21:03.280 --> 03:21:04.280
 You can't use chain link.

03:21:04.280 --> 03:21:08.520
 You can't use ... Right, so we would have to abide by whatever the code says.

03:21:08.520 --> 03:21:13.160
 I don't know exactly what the code says, but whatever the code says we would have to use,

03:21:13.160 --> 03:21:14.640
 we would use.

03:21:14.640 --> 03:21:15.640
 Okay.

03:21:15.640 --> 03:21:18.840
 So it wasn't discussed with the neighborhood, like what that would be?

03:21:18.840 --> 03:21:19.840
 No.

03:21:19.840 --> 03:21:20.840
 Okay.

03:21:20.840 --> 03:21:21.840
 I'm not specific.

03:21:21.840 --> 03:21:22.840
 I want these material.

03:21:22.840 --> 03:21:23.840
 I don't think they cared.

03:21:23.840 --> 03:21:24.840
 Right?

03:21:24.840 --> 03:21:25.840
 It was just ... We know we've got this big green space.

03:21:25.840 --> 03:21:28.320
 We'd like to have a fence in addition.

03:21:28.320 --> 03:21:32.080
 I think they cared only because they mentioned it to you because when the leaves aren't there,

03:21:32.080 --> 03:21:37.280
 they can hear the ... So a material that would buffer sound is probably what they want.

03:21:37.280 --> 03:21:42.640
 But to be clear, what I mean by didn't care was they didn't say, "I want it built of

03:21:42.640 --> 03:21:43.640
 stone."

03:21:43.640 --> 03:21:44.640
 Oh, no, of course.

03:21:44.640 --> 03:21:45.640
 Or a brick or whatever.

03:21:45.640 --> 03:21:46.640
 Right.

03:21:46.640 --> 03:21:47.640
 Like, "Would you build a fence?"

03:21:47.640 --> 03:21:48.640
 Yes.

03:21:48.640 --> 03:21:49.640
 Right.

03:21:49.640 --> 03:21:50.640
 So I'm just trying to make sure I'm capturing what was said.

03:21:50.640 --> 03:21:51.640
 Right.

03:21:51.640 --> 03:21:57.160
 And we would abide by whatever the code says over and above.

03:21:57.160 --> 03:21:59.520
 We couldn't just use the buffer, which is allowed.

03:21:59.520 --> 03:22:00.520
 Sure, sure.

03:22:00.520 --> 03:22:01.520
 We're agreeing to the buffer.

03:22:01.520 --> 03:22:04.000
 In addition, we'd build a fence on the commercial side.

03:22:04.000 --> 03:22:05.000
 Okay.

03:22:05.000 --> 03:22:06.000
 Yeah.

03:22:06.000 --> 03:22:09.160
 And I'm just trying to get clarification on what they're anticipating.

03:22:09.160 --> 03:22:10.840
 But I guess we may never know that answer.

03:22:10.840 --> 03:22:11.840
 But okay.

03:22:11.840 --> 03:22:12.840
 Thank you.

03:22:12.840 --> 03:22:13.840
 Commissioner Pruitt.

03:22:13.840 --> 03:22:14.840
 Thank you, Chair.

03:22:14.840 --> 03:22:20.680
 I just wanted to provide some context because we've had recent discussions in DCRC regarding

03:22:20.680 --> 03:22:22.960
 fencing and buffering and that sort of thing.

03:22:22.960 --> 03:22:26.880
 If you recall, there were some amendments that came through specifically for automotive

03:22:26.880 --> 03:22:32.520
 uses and some screening requirements and that sort of thing.

03:22:32.520 --> 03:22:39.640
 And through that discussion, we really kind of digested and dissected a two-page table

03:22:39.640 --> 03:22:47.040
 in the code right now that describes which fences should be used in which conditions.

03:22:47.040 --> 03:22:51.080
 And there was a lot of thought that went into that.

03:22:51.080 --> 03:22:56.160
 I imagine many of your thoughts back on DCRC back in the day.

03:22:56.160 --> 03:23:01.960
 And so I would just say that looking at the types of fences that would count as buffering

03:23:01.960 --> 03:23:05.760
 so they would be opaque are perfectly applicable.

03:23:05.760 --> 03:23:08.160
 They're not ugly things.

03:23:08.160 --> 03:23:17.440
 So I'm fine with anything that staff thinks is reasonable without complicating the PD.

03:23:17.440 --> 03:23:20.040
 But I would remind everyone that this is an overlay PD.

03:23:20.040 --> 03:23:24.520
 And I think the intention of that was to have a lighter touch so it's easier to understand

03:23:24.520 --> 03:23:25.520
 in the future.

03:23:25.520 --> 03:23:26.520
 Understood.

03:23:26.520 --> 03:23:27.520
 Thank you.

03:23:27.520 --> 03:23:28.520
 Commissioner McDade.

03:23:28.520 --> 03:23:29.520
 Thank you, Chair.

03:23:29.520 --> 03:23:34.040
 I don't know if this question could be for me or the applicant.

03:23:34.040 --> 03:23:39.720
 But when you made the comment, when the applicant made the comment about text dot is likely

03:23:39.720 --> 03:23:44.800
 to put a light there, it's just something about their word likely.

03:23:44.800 --> 03:23:49.400
 I mean, that's at their own discretion or it is something that they can do at any time

03:23:49.400 --> 03:23:51.080
 or they don't have to do.

03:23:51.080 --> 03:23:56.040
 It's just something -- I don't know how -- because I don't know how text dot works.

03:23:56.040 --> 03:24:01.480
 But I know as far as the light goes, that's eight other places on Teasley that are even

03:24:01.480 --> 03:24:05.720
 worse than Hunters Creek, that could actually take a light.

03:24:05.720 --> 03:24:07.960
 But I don't understand the likely part.

03:24:07.960 --> 03:24:10.560
 It's like, well, we'll do it, or we may not.

03:24:10.560 --> 03:24:12.600
 There's just nothing written in stone there.

03:24:12.600 --> 03:24:13.600
 Yeah.

03:24:13.600 --> 03:24:16.280
 I'm going to bring up our transportation planner and speak to it a little bit.

03:24:16.280 --> 03:24:20.000
 And then if the applicant wants to talk about any conversations that he and his team has

03:24:20.000 --> 03:24:24.600
 had with text dot as to that response and bringing that forward, I can let him do that.

03:24:24.600 --> 03:24:25.600
 Okay.

03:24:25.600 --> 03:24:26.600
 I forgot about Karina.

03:24:26.600 --> 03:24:27.600
 I'm sorry.

03:24:27.600 --> 03:24:28.600
 I'm sad.

03:24:28.600 --> 03:24:29.600
 Don't forget about me.

03:24:29.600 --> 03:24:30.600
 I'm still here.

03:24:30.600 --> 03:24:34.680
 I'm Karina Maldonado, transportation planner for the City of Denton.

03:24:34.680 --> 03:24:41.080
 So in regards to the likelihood, that really is a text dot decision with the recommendation

03:24:41.080 --> 03:24:45.680
 from staff after we review the text dot permit.

03:24:45.680 --> 03:24:51.120
 Text dot does look at that signal warrant analysis to identify whether it's triggered

03:24:51.120 --> 03:24:52.120
 or not.

03:24:52.120 --> 03:24:54.300
 There's several factors that go into that.

03:24:54.300 --> 03:24:59.000
 In addition to that, text dot will look at other things like the volume, the traffic

03:24:59.000 --> 03:25:05.400
 volume, turn movements, pedestrian crossings, general safety concerns.

03:25:05.400 --> 03:25:12.040
 So it's hard to predict what text dot would ultimately decide.

03:25:12.040 --> 03:25:16.640
 We did have preliminary discussions with them about this site in particular to give them

03:25:16.640 --> 03:25:21.460
 the heads up of, "Hey, this project's coming along, it's at P&Z."

03:25:21.460 --> 03:25:25.520
 We have discussed it with them so they're aware that it's coming through, at least through

03:25:25.520 --> 03:25:28.420
 the area office.

03:25:28.420 --> 03:25:34.640
 Some concerns that they would have to address once that permit comes in is the request for

03:25:34.640 --> 03:25:39.160
 traffic signals at other locations on Teasley and then the spacing between them.

03:25:39.160 --> 03:25:45.000
 So considering the speed of the roadway, the amount of traffic, and of course what that

03:25:45.000 --> 03:25:48.260
 would do to the facility, it being a primary arterial.

03:25:48.260 --> 03:25:55.880
 So as you know, traffic signals would then kind of add to stop traffic.

03:25:55.880 --> 03:25:57.720
 It could also facilitate increased flow.

03:25:57.720 --> 03:26:01.620
 It depends on how that signalization is.

03:26:01.620 --> 03:26:05.200
 I'm losing the word in my head, but they're coordinated.

03:26:05.200 --> 03:26:08.440
 So there is no specific answer.

03:26:08.440 --> 03:26:11.560
 It will be reviewed in the traffic impact analysis when it's updated.

03:26:11.560 --> 03:26:14.920
 It still needs to go through the scoping process with staff.

03:26:14.920 --> 03:26:23.600
 We'll look at that as staff in that process.

03:26:23.600 --> 03:26:25.640
 It'll be a future decision.

03:26:25.640 --> 03:26:30.360
 So that's why you're hearing the likelihood versus it will or will not happen because

03:26:30.360 --> 03:26:33.180
 right now the city can't make that determination.

03:26:33.180 --> 03:26:38.360
 And then I guess the last point I'll make is we have to review it from a proportionality

03:26:38.360 --> 03:26:40.040
 standpoint.

03:26:40.040 --> 03:26:47.280
 So the developer wouldn't be required by the city to put in the full signal.

03:26:47.280 --> 03:26:51.800
 They would only be responsible for their proportional share of the cost, and then the city would

03:26:51.800 --> 03:26:58.240
 have to identify the additional funds to then install it at that location if it were warranted

03:26:58.240 --> 03:27:04.400
 and if TxDOT approved it, unless it was at the discretion of the developer to put in

03:27:04.400 --> 03:27:06.400
 the full cost of that.

03:27:06.400 --> 03:27:09.600
 But we as a city cannot ask for that beyond the proportional cost.

03:27:09.600 --> 03:27:12.120
 So hopefully that answered that question.

03:27:12.120 --> 03:27:13.120
 All right.

03:27:13.120 --> 03:27:14.120
 Thank you.

03:27:14.120 --> 03:27:21.880
 I'm happy to answer since I said it, because I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth.

03:27:21.880 --> 03:27:23.120
 So I said it.

03:27:23.120 --> 03:27:28.440
 So that was the result of after the first meeting and hearing the concerns, we went

03:27:28.440 --> 03:27:34.600
 back and so we paid Kimberly Horne to go do an update on the traffic signal warrant, the

03:27:34.600 --> 03:27:36.840
 TIA that we had done just for our site.

03:27:36.840 --> 03:27:40.320
 But hearing from the gentleman across the street at Summit Oaks at the first meeting

03:27:40.320 --> 03:27:45.800
 about the safety concerns coming out of that neighborhood, so I went and actually tried

03:27:45.800 --> 03:27:48.320
 to pull out of that neighborhood to see, is it real?

03:27:48.320 --> 03:27:51.800
 Because I don't want to say something to TxDOT that wasn't true.

03:27:51.800 --> 03:27:54.400
 It really is true, like you can't see.

03:27:54.400 --> 03:28:01.520
 And so I talked to some folks at TxDOT, and I said, this is a real issue, and I'm not

03:28:01.520 --> 03:28:04.160
 sure if we meet the distance agreement between Hunter's Creek and Ryan.

03:28:04.160 --> 03:28:05.160
 That's one question.

03:28:05.160 --> 03:28:13.760
 And secondly, if it warrants, and we were able to say the commercial lots would pay

03:28:13.760 --> 03:28:18.600
 for the signal, would you guys put it on the front end even before it all got built out

03:28:18.600 --> 03:28:20.120
 because of this safety concern?

03:28:20.120 --> 03:28:26.120
 So the comment that I got back was, it's likely that there's going to be a signal put somewhere

03:28:26.120 --> 03:28:34.160
 over there north of Ryan Road because we are getting a lot of input between Summit, Teasley

03:28:34.160 --> 03:28:39.560
 Trails, Ranchman, which is a huge outlet over there, and the construction that took so long

03:28:39.560 --> 03:28:44.960
 over there, there's been a lot of information coming to them, I guess, from that HOA.

03:28:44.960 --> 03:28:49.240
 And so the comment was, it's likely there's going to be one over there somewhere, either

03:28:49.240 --> 03:28:56.440
 Ranchman or Hunter's Creek, because that's the two areas that line up both east and west

03:28:56.440 --> 03:28:57.440
 across.

03:28:57.440 --> 03:29:01.800
 So my likely comment was coming from that, but again, they're noncommittal, so I don't

03:29:01.800 --> 03:29:06.600
 want to say we're confident it'll be here, but for the neighborhood's concerns, if we

03:29:06.600 --> 03:29:10.920
 don't get it to Hunter's Creek, then it would be likely that they would get one at Ranchman.

03:29:10.920 --> 03:29:12.920
 That's what I was trying to indicate.

03:29:12.920 --> 03:29:13.920
 All right.

03:29:13.920 --> 03:29:14.920
 Thank you.

03:29:14.920 --> 03:29:15.920
 You bet.

03:29:15.920 --> 03:29:16.920
 Anything else?

03:29:16.920 --> 03:29:17.920
 Okay.

03:29:17.920 --> 03:29:20.160
 Got a couple of cards here to speak.

03:29:20.160 --> 03:29:21.160
 Michael Doranski?

03:29:21.160 --> 03:29:22.160
 Good evening.

03:29:22.160 --> 03:29:23.160
 Good evening.

03:29:23.160 --> 03:29:24.160
 Thanks for your time.

03:29:24.160 --> 03:29:34.160
 I have the property at 3924 TZ Lane, and first I want to say, I'm not opposed to commercial.

03:29:34.160 --> 03:29:36.880
 This thing is going to be commercial over there.

03:29:36.880 --> 03:29:40.920
 It's just a matter of what kind of commercial and what kind of review process it goes through

03:29:40.920 --> 03:29:42.740
 for that commercial.

03:29:42.740 --> 03:29:46.760
 And I think as everyone has sat through tonight, part of one of the issues where people were

03:29:46.760 --> 03:29:51.720
 upset with the zoning that was done on that property earlier tonight and the zoning that

03:29:51.720 --> 03:29:56.560
 was given out, and the previous planning zoning guy gets up here and talks and says, "That

03:29:56.560 --> 03:30:02.200
 was not our intent when I voted on this," and the entire community out here are upset

03:30:02.200 --> 03:30:03.200
 about it.

03:30:03.200 --> 03:30:07.900
 And part of what that was is the review process, and these people, he's got two businesses

03:30:07.900 --> 03:30:13.240
 already online that want to develop here, and if he says they're going to submit the

03:30:13.240 --> 03:30:17.840
 SUP if it doesn't get approved, that's what I think they should do.

03:30:17.840 --> 03:30:22.360
 The SUP is there for the protection of the neighborhood, so they can review each individual

03:30:22.360 --> 03:30:23.360
 project.

03:30:23.360 --> 03:30:29.580
 And as if you just give this first blanket overlay, I assume there will be more to follow.

03:30:29.580 --> 03:30:34.640
 So whatever time may be saved, it's going to be more of these to follow as more development

03:30:34.640 --> 03:30:36.440
 says, "Hey, I don't want to have all of my projects reviewed.

03:30:36.440 --> 03:30:39.200
 I've already got two people lined up, but I don't want to present those.

03:30:39.200 --> 03:30:44.440
 I just want to go ahead and just build those, and I don't have to worry about coming before

03:30:44.440 --> 03:30:45.440
 this piece."

03:30:45.440 --> 03:30:52.920
 And it's been proposed that you have the safety concerns and the things that come into those

03:30:52.920 --> 03:30:53.920
 safety concerns.

03:30:53.920 --> 03:30:55.920
 And I agree with Eric.

03:30:55.920 --> 03:31:00.400
 If you don't put in the development, people won't come, but the stuff will get more expensive,

03:31:00.400 --> 03:31:03.320
 and that is a very true statement.

03:31:03.320 --> 03:31:06.320
 But the whole thing is this needs to be reviewed.

03:31:06.320 --> 03:31:08.960
 And if you already have the stuff on the stuff, I don't know why it can't be reviewed.

03:31:08.960 --> 03:31:10.960
 There's a school right across from this as well.

03:31:10.960 --> 03:31:17.120
 Yes, the kids don't go to that school, but as was discussed last time, supposedly I guess

03:31:17.120 --> 03:31:21.720
 it's a coffee and custard, which is I would assume is going to be pretty popular with

03:31:21.720 --> 03:31:23.560
 that kind of area.

03:31:23.560 --> 03:31:25.440
 You could still run into those type of issues.

03:31:25.440 --> 03:31:28.760
 That speed limit over there is extremely fast.

03:31:28.760 --> 03:31:32.280
 And I heard from someone tonight, it's like, "Well, we should have the safety stuff in

03:31:32.280 --> 03:31:34.320
 place before you build this."

03:31:34.320 --> 03:31:38.320
 And as Mr. McDade has said, "Hey, do we know we're getting the light?"

03:31:38.320 --> 03:31:41.040
 No, we didn't say for sure, but it's very likely.

03:31:41.040 --> 03:31:45.560
 But hey, that's the whole point is we're supposed to have the safety already in place.

03:31:45.560 --> 03:31:51.120
 And if you continue to expand on giving these broader zonings without having to go through

03:31:51.120 --> 03:31:56.280
 each individual process, things will go in there that maybe people didn't anticipate.

03:31:56.280 --> 03:32:00.080
 Again, as Erica said, "Hey, we can put a big shopping center here, and you're not going

03:32:00.080 --> 03:32:01.080
 to like it."

03:32:01.080 --> 03:32:06.140
 And Mr. Smith said the same thing, "Hey, I could build a big shopping center, more cars

03:32:06.140 --> 03:32:09.760
 can go in here, you may end up not liking the result."

03:32:09.760 --> 03:32:14.720
 But as such, if you give the blanket overlay, it's going to continue where they don't have

03:32:14.720 --> 03:32:15.720
 to seek the permission.

03:32:15.720 --> 03:32:17.600
 They can just build it.

03:32:17.600 --> 03:32:22.240
 And they don't have to seek the sub-permission because the overlay was given and they can

03:32:22.240 --> 03:32:25.560
 just build it off of there.

03:32:25.560 --> 03:32:29.000
 You know, I see a lot of mention of the traffic off of Teasley.

03:32:29.000 --> 03:32:33.840
 Yes, it's a very high-trafficated road, but Ryan Road as well is going to see a ton of

03:32:33.840 --> 03:32:35.520
 that traffic that comes through there.

03:32:35.520 --> 03:32:40.040
 It is a two-lane road with a park and where all those neighborhoods come in, they actually

03:32:40.040 --> 03:32:45.000
 kind of come out, go to that neighborhood, Walmart or whatnot, and then exit onto Teasley

03:32:45.000 --> 03:32:48.440
 and make a left or a right.

03:32:48.440 --> 03:32:52.640
 So I do feel like, it's not that I'm against the commercial development there, because

03:32:52.640 --> 03:32:57.000
 I do believe it's going to be commercial, but what I am against is that they don't have

03:32:57.000 --> 03:33:01.120
 to come and present to you and show you what they're going to put in there, how many cars

03:33:01.120 --> 03:33:04.320
 are they going to have, what is the traffic study for this piece.

03:33:04.320 --> 03:33:07.000
 And if we have this one, what other ones are they expecting off of here.

03:33:07.000 --> 03:33:12.480
 And I think by removing that protection, you're just opening it up where what the people expected,

03:33:12.480 --> 03:33:16.440
 just like they expected earlier tonight, to be on that piece of property is not necessarily

03:33:16.440 --> 03:33:19.520
 what they envisioned off of there, because they can build it, because they don't have

03:33:19.520 --> 03:33:21.880
 to seek the special sub for it.

03:33:21.880 --> 03:33:22.960
 Thank you.

03:33:22.960 --> 03:33:26.080
 Thank you very much.

03:33:26.080 --> 03:33:29.720
 Next card I have is Nathan Toon.

03:33:29.720 --> 03:33:33.200
 Good evening again.

03:33:33.200 --> 03:33:38.920
 Good evening, Nathan Toon, 3201 Carmel Street, Denton, Texas.

03:33:38.920 --> 03:33:44.280
 Carmel Street is located in Montecito, right in between Ryan Road and Teasley Lane.

03:33:44.280 --> 03:33:48.440
 So this is my hood, if you will.

03:33:48.440 --> 03:33:54.920
 The way I understand it, the base of the case here before us tonight is basically just changing

03:33:54.920 --> 03:34:01.160
 the underlying zoning of the property from MN to SC.

03:34:01.160 --> 03:34:08.480
 As some of you may know, I own a property in Denton that's zoned MN that basically I've

03:34:08.480 --> 03:34:13.840
 become accustomed to the MN zoning and just by and large, the way it was explained to

03:34:13.840 --> 03:34:21.200
 me is MN is intended to promote walkability in more of your mixed use areas, downtown

03:34:21.200 --> 03:34:23.720
 areas.

03:34:23.720 --> 03:34:25.240
 Teasley Lane is not that.

03:34:25.240 --> 03:34:30.680
 Teasley Lane is a heavily vehicular trafficked area.

03:34:30.680 --> 03:34:37.200
 And as a result, and one of the aspects of the MN zoning district that I think is problematic

03:34:37.200 --> 03:34:44.680
 for vehicular areas is the requirement to build within 15 feet of the front of the property.

03:34:44.680 --> 03:34:51.880
 I personally don't think that commercial properties on major roads should have buildings built

03:34:51.880 --> 03:34:55.080
 so close to the front because it is dangerous.

03:34:55.080 --> 03:35:01.600
 If you drive around the square, for example, if you're coming on Carroll, turn it on Hickory

03:35:01.600 --> 03:35:05.680
 or any of those streets and you've got buildings that are built right up to the corner, you

03:35:05.680 --> 03:35:08.040
 can't see around them.

03:35:08.040 --> 03:35:15.720
 And so aside from the compatibility of the use, I don't think anybody has a problem with

03:35:15.720 --> 03:35:18.960
 commercial uses on this property.

03:35:18.960 --> 03:35:21.480
 That's what is all up and down this corridor.

03:35:21.480 --> 03:35:27.080
 I just don't think MN should be the base zoning here because it's dangerous on heavily trafficked

03:35:27.080 --> 03:35:28.080
 roads.

03:35:28.080 --> 03:35:29.320
 Thank you.

03:35:29.320 --> 03:35:33.560
 Thank you, Mr. Schoen.

03:35:33.560 --> 03:35:34.560
 This is a public hearing.

03:35:34.560 --> 03:35:35.960
 I don't have any other cards.

03:35:35.960 --> 03:35:37.600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

03:35:37.600 --> 03:35:38.600
 Hello, Amy.

03:35:38.600 --> 03:35:39.600
 I'll be quick.

03:35:39.600 --> 03:35:41.920
 Amy Bissett, 109 North Elm.

03:35:41.920 --> 03:35:47.620
 I just wanted to say that we were engaged by the seller, or I'm sorry, the current property

03:35:47.620 --> 03:35:53.240
 owner, to coordinate and facilitate the neighborhood meetings that Mr. Johnson mentioned.

03:35:53.240 --> 03:36:00.120
 And we heard all positives out of even the closest neighbors that were going to be coming

03:36:00.120 --> 03:36:01.120
 in.

03:36:01.120 --> 03:36:05.160
 And we did, when we extended the invite, we opened it up for the second round of meetings

03:36:05.160 --> 03:36:07.440
 to all of Teasley Trails HOA.

03:36:07.440 --> 03:36:11.320
 We contacted their board and their board pushed it out through their distribution lists and

03:36:11.320 --> 03:36:16.600
 social media and we had no additional concerns raised from that.

03:36:16.600 --> 03:36:22.280
 So just wanted to elaborate on that a little bit, that we did handle those neighborhood

03:36:22.280 --> 03:36:26.000
 meetings on behalf of the property owner and that was the outcome.

03:36:26.000 --> 03:36:28.520
 And it was with this current information, right?

03:36:28.520 --> 03:36:32.040
 Which is updated slightly from the original meetings.

03:36:32.040 --> 03:36:33.040
 Okay.

03:36:33.040 --> 03:36:34.040
 Great.

03:36:34.040 --> 03:36:35.040
 Thank you.

03:36:35.040 --> 03:36:36.040
 Okay.

03:36:36.040 --> 03:36:37.040
 Thank you.

03:36:37.040 --> 03:36:38.040
 This is a public hearing.

03:36:38.040 --> 03:36:40.200
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not?

03:36:40.200 --> 03:36:42.360
 I don't think there's anyone else here.

03:36:42.360 --> 03:36:46.920
 Okay, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and open the floor for a motion or

03:36:46.920 --> 03:36:47.920
 discussion.

03:36:47.920 --> 03:36:48.920
 Commissioner Pruitt.

03:36:48.920 --> 03:36:50.800
 Thank you, Chair.

03:36:50.800 --> 03:36:58.720
 I'll move approval with staff of the PDSC as presented.

03:36:58.720 --> 03:37:02.240
 I think I appreciate the time and effort on this.

03:37:02.240 --> 03:37:07.520
 I'm sorry that it took us a little bit longer than expected to get to the end.

03:37:07.520 --> 03:37:15.000
 But I'll just clarify, I think, you know, at the initial hearing that we had, I had

03:37:15.000 --> 03:37:16.000
 safety concerns.

03:37:16.000 --> 03:37:17.680
 I still do.

03:37:17.680 --> 03:37:24.640
 But under further reflection, I think that we did pass some transportation criteria manual

03:37:24.640 --> 03:37:30.080
 updates that specify how TIAs should be handled.

03:37:30.080 --> 03:37:36.560
 And though I'm nervous about how we are going to end up working with TxDOT here, I think

03:37:36.560 --> 03:37:39.880
 it warrants giving everybody a shot.

03:37:39.880 --> 03:37:43.520
 And I also appreciate the attendance zone map.

03:37:43.520 --> 03:37:49.720
 I think we need to keep in mind that while I've heard the superintendent of DISD say

03:37:49.720 --> 03:37:57.120
 that he is adamantly opposed to having attendance boundaries cross over those dangerous roads

03:37:57.120 --> 03:38:01.160
 for that very reason, when you look in the rest of the city, it often happens as a result

03:38:01.160 --> 03:38:05.560
 of development and there's just no way around it unless you're going to start drawing lines

03:38:05.560 --> 03:38:08.520
 worse than our political boundaries.

03:38:08.520 --> 03:38:12.200
 So I, you know, I'll trust the process.

03:38:12.200 --> 03:38:16.920
 I'm nervous that eight years from now after more housing is built west of here, those

03:38:16.920 --> 03:38:19.760
 districts move and something happens.

03:38:19.760 --> 03:38:27.120
 But I think everybody's aligned on the goals and I'm satisfied with it, so thank you.

03:38:27.120 --> 03:38:28.120
 >> Commissioner Smith.

03:38:28.120 --> 03:38:31.800
 >> Being this is my first time, you'll see the project as presented.

03:38:31.800 --> 03:38:34.360
 I live in that neighborhood and I drive down Ryan.

03:38:34.360 --> 03:38:41.920
 I look at that ugly corner of what was a nasty pad-sided trailer park that is now going to

03:38:41.920 --> 03:38:43.660
 be developed into something.

03:38:43.660 --> 03:38:45.480
 We need commercial up and down Teasley.

03:38:45.480 --> 03:38:49.280
 We have commercial sites up and down Teasley now that are accessible.

03:38:49.280 --> 03:38:54.560
 I understand the traffic concerns up and down Ryan, but like I said, I ride that road every

03:38:54.560 --> 03:38:56.120
 single day.

03:38:56.120 --> 03:39:02.800
 I'm not concerned by safety or traffic issues here and if anything, I see commercial development

03:39:02.800 --> 03:39:09.800
 at that corner being a way to help mitigate some of the some of the speeding and the going

03:39:09.800 --> 03:39:13.440
 in and out will slow down some of the traffic that happens there on that thoroughfare.

03:39:13.440 --> 03:39:15.880
 So with that, I second.

03:39:15.880 --> 03:39:16.880
 >> Thank you.

03:39:16.880 --> 03:39:20.560
 Got a first and a second for approval.

03:39:20.560 --> 03:39:21.560
 Commissioner Villarreal.

03:39:21.560 --> 03:39:27.200
 >> I appreciate the restrictions you're putting on the number of drive throughs on the development.

03:39:27.200 --> 03:39:34.760
 At the same time, I still have the same safety concerns I had when this was last presented.

03:39:34.760 --> 03:39:39.720
 I understand there have been positive conversations with TechStat, but considering nothing solidified

03:39:39.720 --> 03:39:44.160
 at the moment, those concerns still exist.

03:39:44.160 --> 03:39:50.160
 I have concerns with removing the SUP process in general for those three drive throughs

03:39:50.160 --> 03:39:56.720
 and all the additional protections for the neighborhood to come and speak their mind

03:39:56.720 --> 03:39:58.680
 on particular projects.

03:39:58.680 --> 03:40:02.360
 At this time, I'm still a no on this project.

03:40:02.360 --> 03:40:03.360
 >> Thank you.

03:40:03.360 --> 03:40:05.200
 Is there any other discussion?

03:40:05.200 --> 03:40:08.640
 I've got a first and a second for approval.

03:40:08.640 --> 03:40:10.360
 I'll go ahead and say a few words.

03:40:10.360 --> 03:40:17.320
 I asked for this reconsideration and did an extensive amount of deeper dive into the backup

03:40:17.320 --> 03:40:23.440
 and a lot of research on the site, including multiple, multiple visits at various times,

03:40:23.440 --> 03:40:28.500
 school times, not school times, drove through Teasley trails, drove Hunters Creek back and

03:40:28.500 --> 03:40:31.240
 forth every which way.

03:40:31.240 --> 03:40:35.440
 What I didn't realize at the beginning when I heard this the first time was how messy

03:40:35.440 --> 03:40:41.400
 the code is right now, and that was another meeting I had with staff to understand exactly

03:40:41.400 --> 03:40:42.400
 how messy it is right now.

03:40:42.400 --> 03:40:50.640
 We've got these NRMU uses because they were codified in place to where we have to abide

03:40:50.640 --> 03:40:55.360
 by those, but we rezoned it to MN with the new code, and so now we're dealing with those

03:40:55.360 --> 03:41:06.240
 design standards, which absolutely do this and makes this really difficult to develop.

03:41:06.240 --> 03:41:10.600
 With the research that I've done with knowing these kids, that was one of the first things

03:41:10.600 --> 03:41:15.200
 I went to do was the next day, went to school time, realized there's not a crossing garden.

03:41:15.200 --> 03:41:21.700
 It's like, hey, I don't think these kids do cross Teasley, which is great.

03:41:21.700 --> 03:41:23.960
 Obviously we know a traffic signal is needed.

03:41:23.960 --> 03:41:25.840
 I live in the area.

03:41:25.840 --> 03:41:29.800
 We know it's needed, and it will happen.

03:41:29.800 --> 03:41:35.040
 Obviously none of us can ever say with Tx.1 that's going to happen.

03:41:35.040 --> 03:41:40.520
 I think with the way this PD is built, we've added some extra protections of certain types

03:41:40.520 --> 03:41:50.240
 of developments that won't happen, which protects the neighborhood, which was my biggest concern.

03:41:50.240 --> 03:41:58.400
 In looking at this again and with these new clarifications and protections, and then in

03:41:58.400 --> 03:42:08.240
 engaging with the neighbors, everybody was in support that we got written comment on,

03:42:08.240 --> 03:42:11.280
 was in support, well, I don't know if they said they were in support.

03:42:11.280 --> 03:42:12.600
 They weren't against the project.

03:42:12.600 --> 03:42:14.760
 They were wanting a traffic light.

03:42:14.760 --> 03:42:18.180
 Every single one of those emails said the same thing.

03:42:18.180 --> 03:42:20.240
 We don't have control over that.

03:42:20.240 --> 03:42:22.740
 The developer doesn't have control over that.

03:42:22.740 --> 03:42:27.320
 When things do develop here, it's going to happen, and it may not even take that long.

03:42:27.320 --> 03:42:33.200
 Maybe it will happen even prior to that because of the Summit Oaks issue.

03:42:33.200 --> 03:42:35.800
 I think that's all I have to say on that.

03:42:35.800 --> 03:42:40.920
 Is there any other discussion before we take a vote?

03:42:40.920 --> 03:42:50.820
 Let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

03:42:50.820 --> 03:42:55.040
 That motion carries 5-2.

03:42:55.040 --> 03:42:59.800
 That will move us to item 5C, Z23-0004.

03:42:59.800 --> 03:43:06.280
 I will call Julie Wyatt up for that and open the public hearing.

03:43:06.280 --> 03:43:08.120
 Good evening.

03:43:08.120 --> 03:43:13.680
 Let me pull up my presentation.

03:43:13.680 --> 03:43:17.800
 Here we go.

03:43:17.800 --> 03:43:18.800
 Okay.

03:43:18.800 --> 03:43:19.800
 Hi.

03:43:19.800 --> 03:43:21.680
 Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner with the City of Denton.

03:43:21.680 --> 03:43:28.800
 I am presenting Z23-0004 Camelot to you this evening.

03:43:28.800 --> 03:43:33.080
 We usually start with the request slide, but I'm going to turn it a little bit tonight

03:43:33.080 --> 03:43:38.040
 and talk about the history because I think that's informative for this property.

03:43:38.040 --> 03:43:42.440
 The subject property is located in the north side of town.

03:43:42.440 --> 03:43:47.960
 It is north of Hercules and just west of Stewart, so it's at that intersection.

03:43:47.960 --> 03:43:51.880
 It was originally plotted in 1979 with residential lots.

03:43:51.880 --> 03:43:56.000
 It was developed with four plexes and a couple of single-family homes, which was consistent

03:43:56.000 --> 03:43:57.400
 with the zoning at that time.

03:43:57.400 --> 03:44:02.300
 At that time, the zoning was multifamily residential, which was multifamily, I believe, capped it

03:44:02.300 --> 03:44:07.360
 at two stories.

03:44:07.360 --> 03:44:12.520
 Since then, we have updated our development regulations twice, once with the Denton Development

03:44:12.520 --> 03:44:16.440
 Code in 2002 and then again in 2019.

03:44:16.440 --> 03:44:22.940
 With both of those, it essentially rezoned the property from that multifamily residential

03:44:22.940 --> 03:44:28.680
 to neighborhood residential three in 2002 and then residential three that transitioned

03:44:28.680 --> 03:44:36.160
 in 2019, rendering those existing four plexes nonconforming.

03:44:36.160 --> 03:44:38.760
 This was brought to our attention at the end of last year.

03:44:38.760 --> 03:44:42.720
 We had one of the property owners come in for a pre-application.

03:44:42.720 --> 03:44:47.880
 They wanted to convert one of the couple of single-family dwellings on the street to a

03:44:47.880 --> 03:44:53.920
 duplex and we said, "Oh, that is not permitted, nor are the four plexes that are existing

03:44:53.920 --> 03:44:56.120
 permitted as well."

03:44:56.120 --> 03:44:57.800
 That's how this is coming to you tonight.

03:44:57.800 --> 03:45:04.440
 It's actually a city-initiated rezoning, which is not something we do very often, but that

03:45:04.440 --> 03:45:09.000
 was the genesis of tonight's meeting.

03:45:09.000 --> 03:45:13.560
 These uses that were rendered nonconforming are now subject to Section 1.5.

03:45:13.560 --> 03:45:18.260
 We talked about nonconformities in our work session, but essentially if one of those structures

03:45:18.260 --> 03:45:25.720
 was destroyed by more than 50%, they could not be rebuilt.

03:45:25.720 --> 03:45:27.440
 Now we'll get to the request.

03:45:27.440 --> 03:45:37.400
 We are, the city is proposing to rezone the 6.52 acres from the existing residential three

03:45:37.400 --> 03:45:39.600
 to residential six.

03:45:39.600 --> 03:45:43.720
 Residential six allows a variety of residential uses that we'll talk about.

03:45:43.720 --> 03:45:49.160
 The purpose of this is to align the zoning with those existing uses to provide certainty

03:45:49.160 --> 03:45:54.440
 for those property owners who've invested in those lots, as well as the residents of

03:45:54.440 --> 03:46:01.360
 those four plexes, and to allow and to encourage continued investment in these properties.

03:46:01.360 --> 03:46:05.640
 This is a vibrant neighborhood and to provide that additional investment.

03:46:05.640 --> 03:46:09.640
 You can see on your screen we've got the subject property here.

03:46:09.640 --> 03:46:17.480
 As it currently looks today, the previous screen had a aerial from 1982, and what it

03:46:17.480 --> 03:46:19.280
 looks like today.

03:46:19.280 --> 03:46:27.840
 The existing zoning shows the yellow there in red, and then the proposed zoning would

03:46:27.840 --> 03:46:33.280
 change the color in the map to this tan color, and allow that transition as you can see from

03:46:33.280 --> 03:46:40.960
 that R7 at the intersection to then the proposed R6, and that would transition to the R4 to

03:46:40.960 --> 03:46:44.000
 the north and west of the site.

03:46:44.000 --> 03:46:46.960
 The first thing we always look at is the comprehensive plan.

03:46:46.960 --> 03:46:51.680
 The future land use designation for the subject property is low residential.

03:46:51.680 --> 03:46:56.440
 The proposed R6 actually allows densities that are greater than what we typically see

03:46:56.440 --> 03:46:57.720
 in low residential.

03:46:57.720 --> 03:47:03.260
 Low residential is up to five dwelling units per acre, but the future land use map is just

03:47:03.260 --> 03:47:06.480
 one analysis point when it comes to the comprehensive plan.

03:47:06.480 --> 03:47:10.840
 We want to look at lots of different parts of the comprehensive plan, and this request

03:47:10.840 --> 03:47:13.640
 does serve other goals within that plan.

03:47:13.640 --> 03:47:17.760
 One, it's consistent with the sound growth principles that are outlined in the overall

03:47:17.760 --> 03:47:21.920
 vision statement, things like diverse housing choice, compact development.

03:47:21.920 --> 03:47:27.640
 This is an existing neighborhood, as well as neighborhood protection.

03:47:27.640 --> 03:47:35.720
 Once again, keeping that reinvestment in our previously developed parts of our town.

03:47:35.720 --> 03:47:40.800
 It also serves for our housing and neighborhood section, that it provides that variety of

03:47:40.800 --> 03:47:43.400
 housing types.

03:47:43.400 --> 03:47:47.880
 And then infill, this is an existing area that is being used, and so we want to make

03:47:47.880 --> 03:47:51.880
 sure that there's continued reinvestment.

03:47:51.880 --> 03:47:54.560
 We also look at impacts to surrounding property.

03:47:54.560 --> 03:48:00.400
 Now apart from that one property, the single-family dwelling that would like to convert to a duplex,

03:48:00.400 --> 03:48:06.360
 we are not aware of any other redevelopment proposed for the area.

03:48:06.360 --> 03:48:10.960
 Really what we're looking at is not necessarily redevelopment, but in the event that the property

03:48:10.960 --> 03:48:18.000
 redeveloped, we wanted to do that mental exercise to see, well, what could those impacts be?

03:48:18.000 --> 03:48:21.720
 R3 and R6, they do have different residential uses.

03:48:21.720 --> 03:48:25.280
 R6, of course, allows that different variety of residential uses.

03:48:25.280 --> 03:48:31.280
 Not only single-family, but townhome, duplex, triplex, and fourplex does not permit multi-family.

03:48:31.280 --> 03:48:36.480
 We felt like R6 really wasn't introducing any new residential type uses to the area.

03:48:36.480 --> 03:48:41.560
 It really was consistent with what was there, and it was the most surgical precision that

03:48:41.560 --> 03:48:43.440
 we could get with the zoning.

03:48:43.440 --> 03:48:49.840
 Furthermore, if any other properties were to redevelop on that site, if somebody said,

03:48:49.840 --> 03:48:54.080
 "Hey, now I'm just going to scrape the lot and redevelop it," they would have to conform

03:48:54.080 --> 03:48:59.200
 to all of our current design standards, which are much different than they were in the '80s.

03:48:59.200 --> 03:49:01.200
 Street trees would have to be installed.

03:49:01.200 --> 03:49:06.000
 They would have to put in sidewalk, landscaping, lot tree, parking.

03:49:06.000 --> 03:49:10.480
 We'd have to have two parking spaces per dwelling, and they would have to be to the side or rear

03:49:10.480 --> 03:49:13.480
 of the property.

03:49:13.480 --> 03:49:19.560
 Then site design, they would have to meet all those architectural requirements.

03:49:19.560 --> 03:49:26.080
 We also, as we were thinking through this and thinking through the staff analysis, we

03:49:26.080 --> 03:49:28.520
 just thought through those non-conforming issues.

03:49:28.520 --> 03:49:29.960
 I won't read all of this to you.

03:49:29.960 --> 03:49:33.920
 I think it was emailed to you, and I apologize, there were a couple of spelling errors.

03:49:33.920 --> 03:49:37.800
 I typed it really quickly, so I apologize.

03:49:37.800 --> 03:49:42.360
 There are those differences in the residential uses, and as I think we've kind of talked

03:49:42.360 --> 03:49:48.220
 about that currently those fourplexes are non-conforming.

03:49:48.220 --> 03:49:53.000
 This proposed rezoning would not impact those existing property owners if they left it in

03:49:53.000 --> 03:50:00.080
 place, so a rezoning wouldn't require them to go out and make those improvements consistent

03:50:00.080 --> 03:50:01.160
 with the current code.

03:50:01.160 --> 03:50:06.120
 That would only be if they redeveloped a lot.

03:50:06.120 --> 03:50:10.420
 As far as the current zoning, those existing uses can remain.

03:50:10.420 --> 03:50:15.640
 I think where the challenges come in is that they can't make those substantial improvements

03:50:15.640 --> 03:50:21.480
 to the property, make those structural changes, or redevelop if something were to happen to

03:50:21.480 --> 03:50:26.920
 one of their properties.

03:50:26.920 --> 03:50:33.840
 If one of those property owners did want to renovate or rebuild after some sort of natural

03:50:33.840 --> 03:50:38.200
 disaster that would happen, they wouldn't be able to do that.

03:50:38.200 --> 03:50:41.900
 What they would have to do is seek one of those remedies that we talked about in work

03:50:41.900 --> 03:50:46.120
 session and likely would be a rezoning like what we're doing tonight, and it would require

03:50:46.120 --> 03:50:52.300
 them to make application with the city and pay those fees and post those signs.

03:50:52.300 --> 03:50:57.860
 That's really why we're coming today is to try to forestall that.

03:50:57.860 --> 03:50:59.400
 Public outreach was done.

03:50:59.400 --> 03:51:02.960
 A newspaper property was posted, mail responses.

03:51:02.960 --> 03:51:09.640
 The city also held two neighborhood meetings.

03:51:09.640 --> 03:51:11.040
 I did want to let you know.

03:51:11.040 --> 03:51:16.520
 We have received substantial opposition from property owners on Camelot, such that there

03:51:16.520 --> 03:51:22.880
 is 33% opposition and which will require a supermajority approval if it were to be approved

03:51:22.880 --> 03:51:26.840
 at council.

03:51:26.840 --> 03:51:31.680
 Based upon the criteria for approval and that non-conforming condition, staff does recommend

03:51:31.680 --> 03:51:35.520
 approval of the request as it does comply with the criteria for approval.

03:51:35.520 --> 03:51:37.480
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

03:51:37.480 --> 03:51:40.480
 Thank you, Julie.

03:51:40.480 --> 03:51:50.160
 Do you have any idea why the opposition ... I mean, was it just a not understanding what

03:51:50.160 --> 03:51:56.360
 exactly was happening or you could ... I mean, did you address any concerns that they had

03:51:56.360 --> 03:51:57.360
 or ...?

03:51:57.360 --> 03:52:01.120
 With the first neighborhood meeting, we had two property owners.

03:52:01.120 --> 03:52:04.000
 Those two property owners are in opposition to the request.

03:52:04.000 --> 03:52:10.320
 I talked to them and we talked through it about what could happen.

03:52:10.320 --> 03:52:16.360
 There was a concern that they would have to modify their cart service to a dumpster and

03:52:16.360 --> 03:52:21.560
 I was like, "This would not require you to make any changes to what you're doing now."

03:52:21.560 --> 03:52:32.520
 I haven't been given really clear reasons as to why the objection really was there.

03:52:32.520 --> 03:52:37.440
 Then we had an additional neighborhood meeting after we had received all of these opposition.

03:52:37.440 --> 03:52:39.840
 Tina may have other thoughts.

03:52:39.840 --> 03:52:44.600
 We really didn't ... We had other community members or property owners attend that and

03:52:44.600 --> 03:52:53.200
 they asked a lot of questions, but no real solid reasons as to why there was an opposition.

03:52:53.200 --> 03:52:55.360
 I would agree.

03:52:55.360 --> 03:53:02.480
 We tried pulling it out and asking a series of questions and understandings, but it was

03:53:02.480 --> 03:53:03.680
 not clear.

03:53:03.680 --> 03:53:10.120
 One of the property owners, given his questions, he seemed to understand the challenges of

03:53:10.120 --> 03:53:15.480
 the existing zoning and how that might affect property owners, but he didn't come out and

03:53:15.480 --> 03:53:17.680
 say, "I'm in support or in opposition."

03:53:17.680 --> 03:53:20.960
 He just seemed to have a better understanding, but two of the other property owners that

03:53:20.960 --> 03:53:29.240
 were in attendance, yeah, they did not voice if they were opposed or ...

03:53:29.240 --> 03:53:30.240
 Anything specific?

03:53:30.240 --> 03:53:33.240
 Yeah, nothing specific.

03:53:33.240 --> 03:53:36.000
 Thank you for answering that.

03:53:36.000 --> 03:53:39.560
 Any other questions for staff right now?

03:53:39.560 --> 03:53:40.560
 No?

03:53:40.560 --> 03:53:41.560
 Okay.

03:53:41.560 --> 03:53:42.560
 This is a public hearing.

03:53:42.560 --> 03:53:48.080
 I don't have any cards and I don't have anyone here wishing to speak, so I will close the

03:53:48.080 --> 03:53:52.240
 public hearing and open the floor for a motion or discussion.

03:53:52.240 --> 03:53:53.240
 Commissioner Smith.

03:53:53.240 --> 03:53:55.120
 Make a motion to approve.

03:53:55.120 --> 03:53:56.120
 Commissioner Cole.

03:53:56.120 --> 03:53:57.120
 Second.

03:53:57.120 --> 03:53:59.480
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

03:53:59.480 --> 03:54:00.480
 Commissioner Pruitt.

03:54:00.480 --> 03:54:01.480
 Thank you, Chair.

03:54:01.480 --> 03:54:09.600
 I want to say I'm almost as happy to eliminate nonconformities as other officials that I've

03:54:09.600 --> 03:54:17.300
 heard are happy to issue refunding bonds.

03:54:17.300 --> 03:54:18.300
 It's a big need.

03:54:18.300 --> 03:54:23.480
 There's a lot of places pigeonholed and pocketed throughout Denton because we have a rich history

03:54:23.480 --> 03:54:26.600
 and I'm glad to see this coming forward, so thank you.

03:54:26.600 --> 03:54:27.600
 Thank you.

03:54:27.600 --> 03:54:28.600
 Commissioner Villarreal.

03:54:28.600 --> 03:54:31.720
 Yeah, I'm going to be in support of the motion.

03:54:31.720 --> 03:54:38.080
 It is concerning that there is 33% opposition and we don't really know why they're opposed,

03:54:38.080 --> 03:54:44.320
 but not knowing that, I will be in support of the motion to remove the nonconformity.

03:54:44.320 --> 03:54:46.440
 Yeah, thanks.

03:54:46.440 --> 03:54:51.680
 Yeah, it almost seems like we're doing the property owners a favor, honestly, by this

03:54:51.680 --> 03:54:57.120
 because we'd be keeping them from having to rezone the property themselves if something

03:54:57.120 --> 03:55:03.840
 were to happen to their property and they would want to rebuild what is currently there.

03:55:03.840 --> 03:55:09.480
 The entire street, except for a couple of single-family homes, is all a couple of duplexes

03:55:09.480 --> 03:55:13.880
 and then mainly triplexes and fourplexes.

03:55:13.880 --> 03:55:20.080
 Yeah, I commend staff on bringing this forward, honestly, because I love to clean up things

03:55:20.080 --> 03:55:21.080
 that don't make sense.

03:55:21.080 --> 03:55:26.280
 You know that with our zoning and this definitely seems to do that.

03:55:26.280 --> 03:55:32.640
 I wish that, and we have letters, I know that say opposed, but there's nothing attached

03:55:32.640 --> 03:55:33.640
 to them.

03:55:33.640 --> 03:55:41.040
 And so I feel like it might be confusion or fear of change or what, but yeah, it's really

03:55:41.040 --> 03:55:45.120
 more of a mistake that we're clearing up, I think, on our part because it probably should

03:55:45.120 --> 03:55:49.520
 have never transitioned to R3 to begin with when we went to the new code.

03:55:49.520 --> 03:55:54.080
 So yeah, I think this cleans up a much needed thing.

03:55:54.080 --> 03:56:05.000
 Seeing no other discussion, let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

03:56:05.000 --> 03:56:07.440
 That motion carries 7-0.

03:56:07.440 --> 03:56:12.640
 That will take us to our Planning and Zoning Commission Project Matrix, and I will give

03:56:12.640 --> 03:56:14.520
 the floor to Tina.

03:56:14.520 --> 03:56:19.880
 Thank you, Chair Ellis.

03:56:19.880 --> 03:56:28.120
 So several items here, I promised Ron I would make some announcements regarding some upcoming

03:56:28.120 --> 03:56:33.200
 activities that the commission may be participating in and interested in.

03:56:33.200 --> 03:56:39.480
 So first of all, just a few reminders, we have this for the Northeast Area Plan.

03:56:39.480 --> 03:56:46.320
 We have the Strategic Foresight Workshop that's this Saturday at 9 o'clock a.m. at the Development

03:56:46.320 --> 03:56:51.560
 Services Building, so I know some of you have agreed to participate in that, so just a friendly

03:56:51.560 --> 03:56:54.400
 reminder for that and for anybody else who may be listening.

03:56:54.400 --> 03:57:01.200
 I know we have some residents within the Northeast Area that were also planning to attend that.

03:57:01.200 --> 03:57:06.440
 You also have been, or two workshops have been added to your calendar, joint workshops

03:57:06.440 --> 03:57:09.400
 as it relates to the Northeast Area Plan.

03:57:09.400 --> 03:57:14.520
 One will be on August 1st at 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., so we'll do a lunch joint meeting with

03:57:14.520 --> 03:57:16.160
 City Council.

03:57:16.160 --> 03:57:22.080
 The purpose of that meeting at that time, we will be discussing some of the draft recommendations

03:57:22.080 --> 03:57:26.640
 that will be presented as part of the Northeast Area Plan and obtain your input.

03:57:26.640 --> 03:57:32.440
 Then we will have a second joint meeting on October 17th, again at 11 a.m. from 1 p.m.,

03:57:32.440 --> 03:57:41.480
 joint meeting with Council to review the draft document and before, or to review the draft

03:57:41.480 --> 03:57:45.480
 document before we initiate the adoption process through a formal public hearing.

03:57:45.480 --> 03:57:50.080
 So similar to what we did with the Comprehensive Plan, if you recall in the Mobility Plan when

03:57:50.080 --> 03:57:54.400
 we went through that adoption process, so we had some joint sessions with Council, but

03:57:54.400 --> 03:57:58.400
 really one the opportunity for the two bodies to be able to work together and review any

03:57:58.400 --> 03:58:02.680
 of the content that's being presented before we move into that adoption phase in case there's

03:58:02.680 --> 03:58:08.200
 any additional direction that may be provided by PNZ and Council before we initiate that

03:58:08.200 --> 03:58:09.200
 particular process.

03:58:09.200 --> 03:58:12.840
 So that's all related to Northeast.

03:58:12.840 --> 03:58:13.840
 Southeast Denton.

03:58:13.840 --> 03:58:20.240
 So Southeast Denton, we're continuing with really one of our first major public engagement

03:58:20.240 --> 03:58:26.520
 listening sessions and so this week has been a big PR push and Julie's been our project

03:58:26.520 --> 03:58:31.200
 manager with assistance from me on that as well, and so in case you're interested or

03:58:31.200 --> 03:58:35.960
 if you know folks that are interested, by all means please do encourage them to participate

03:58:35.960 --> 03:58:38.880
 in what we're referring to as our listening sessions.

03:58:38.880 --> 03:58:42.640
 Those listening sessions will be with our consultant team.

03:58:42.640 --> 03:58:46.520
 Staff will not be participating in those other than making sure the room's set up and any

03:58:46.520 --> 03:58:50.560
 food delivered or snacks, things of that nature, but really this is going to be led by our

03:58:50.560 --> 03:58:56.440
 consultants because we want our consultant team to hear directly from folks that are

03:58:56.440 --> 03:59:00.800
 interested in the Southeast Denton area plan, and so really these are geared towards listening

03:59:00.800 --> 03:59:01.800
 sessions.

03:59:01.800 --> 03:59:07.520
 So we have one that's Wednesday evening, April 19th, it starts at 6 p.m. scheduled till 8.

03:59:07.520 --> 03:59:11.440
 That's at the American Legion Hall, and that's April 19th.

03:59:11.440 --> 03:59:16.280
 Then we have another one that is Thursday, April 20th at the MLK Junior Recreation Center.

03:59:16.280 --> 03:59:20.120
 That one's actually earlier in the day, so that one's at 11 a.m.

03:59:20.120 --> 03:59:25.640
 We have one then scheduled Thursday evening, again at the MLK Recreation Center.

03:59:25.640 --> 03:59:27.040
 That one will be at 6 p.m.

03:59:27.040 --> 03:59:31.140
 So again, you have two options on that Thursday, 11 a.m. and 6 p.m.

03:59:31.140 --> 03:59:37.640
 And then we are doing a virtual meeting Friday, April 21st at 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.

03:59:37.640 --> 03:59:42.720
 And lastly, we will wrap up with our listening sessions Saturday, April 22nd at 10 a.m. to

03:59:42.720 --> 03:59:44.160
 noon at the American Legion Hall.

03:59:44.160 --> 03:59:49.160
 So we've got one, two, three, four, five opportunities for folks that are interested in the Southeast

03:59:49.160 --> 03:59:52.160
 Denton area plan and wanting to provide us input.

03:59:52.160 --> 03:59:56.160
 So really trying to utilize a variety of resources.

03:59:56.160 --> 03:59:59.640
 Mailed invitations have gone out, utilizing social media pushes as well, announcements

03:59:59.640 --> 04:00:03.640
 like this, passing word of mouth if you know people that are interested.

04:00:03.640 --> 04:00:08.840
 So trying to do all we can to be able to help folks learn about those listening sessions

04:00:08.840 --> 04:00:16.920
 because really that really starts the input process on the Southeast Denton area plan.

04:00:16.920 --> 04:00:22.160
 In terms of zoning and development case activity, since the last time the Planning and Zoning

04:00:22.160 --> 04:00:26.900
 Commission has met, we did have one case go before council on April 4th.

04:00:26.900 --> 04:00:31.740
 If you recall, that was the rezoning from Plan Development District 120 to MN.

04:00:31.740 --> 04:00:35.480
 It was south of Loop 288, about 1,600 feet west of Locust Street.

04:00:35.480 --> 04:00:38.940
 This was to accommodate development in accordance with the MN standards.

04:00:38.940 --> 04:00:44.520
 If you recall, this is the property that had the old 1969 zoning that we were even concerned

04:00:44.520 --> 04:00:50.280
 whether or not we could accurately administer given the quality of the conditions of the

04:00:50.280 --> 04:00:53.160
 copies of the document, right?

04:00:53.160 --> 04:00:57.020
 So this one did get approved by city council.

04:00:57.020 --> 04:01:01.680
 With respect to items listed on the matrix, from what I understand there were no new requests

04:01:01.680 --> 04:01:07.200
 that were brought forth, and so we will update this this evening also based upon the conversation

04:01:07.200 --> 04:01:11.280
 that we had with respect to the discussion about public hearing notifications.

04:01:11.280 --> 04:01:14.600
 So we can note that one is completed.

04:01:14.600 --> 04:01:20.600
 So I believe that -- oh, and Ron asked me to also mention with the downtown area plan

04:01:20.600 --> 04:01:25.160
 we're still working through our contract negotiations and selecting the consultants.

04:01:25.160 --> 04:01:31.160
 So hopefully we'll have that contract ideally on council's agenda in May so we can start

04:01:31.160 --> 04:01:34.300
 our downtown area planning efforts as well with that.

04:01:34.300 --> 04:01:37.040
 So that concludes my announcements.

04:01:37.040 --> 04:01:38.040
 Thank you.

04:01:38.040 --> 04:01:39.040
 Thank you very much.

04:01:39.040 --> 04:01:40.040
 Commissioner Smith.

04:01:40.040 --> 04:01:41.040
 Thank you, Chair.

04:01:41.040 --> 04:01:49.680
 I talked with Hillary here between our work session and dinner, Tina, but if we can add

04:01:49.680 --> 04:01:54.960
 to the matrix, it would be nice just knowing that we've come up on DCRC with a few kind

04:01:54.960 --> 04:01:59.320
 of more hot-button topics lately, specifically short-term rentals, if we can start including

04:01:59.320 --> 04:02:05.600
 DCRC meetings and current conversation topics into the matrix as well, they could be good

04:02:05.600 --> 04:02:06.600
 to get some feedback.

04:02:06.600 --> 04:02:10.760
 And I'll take the moment now instead of doing it at concluding items, and I'll be quick

04:02:10.760 --> 04:02:13.880
 because I know it's been a long night.

04:02:13.880 --> 04:02:20.120
 In the conversation about short-term rentals with the DCRC, the direction of the committee

04:02:20.120 --> 04:02:26.800
 has really been to kind of work through the code, the six of us, and then get public feedback

04:02:26.800 --> 04:02:31.360
 on short-term rentals before there's even recommendations given to this body.

04:02:31.360 --> 04:02:36.240
 And then from there, obviously, a public hearing, then that makes recommendations to city council

04:02:36.240 --> 04:02:37.480
 to have public hearing from there.

04:02:37.480 --> 04:02:43.240
 And so trying to have extra layers of community involvement, community feedback, and any of

04:02:43.240 --> 04:02:47.200
 the DCRC members, Commissioner Villarreal, Commissioner Prude, and myself, we're willing

04:02:47.200 --> 04:02:51.620
 to visit with any of the PNZ members who have questions about short-term rentals on a one-on-one

04:02:51.620 --> 04:02:54.200
 basis that doesn't constitute a walk-in quorum.

04:02:54.200 --> 04:02:55.200
 Gotcha, Hillary.

04:02:55.200 --> 04:02:59.720
 But yeah, not just short-term rentals, but as we keep going on with DCRC, I think it'd

04:02:59.720 --> 04:03:04.640
 be nice if the commission had, "Hey, this is what DCRC's been talking about lately."

04:03:04.640 --> 04:03:08.480
 If you've got any input or things like that, talk to your DCRC members so they can get

04:03:08.480 --> 04:03:09.600
 that weighed in.

04:03:09.600 --> 04:03:13.600
 I know when we've seen code amendments that have come to the Planning and Zoning Commission,

04:03:13.600 --> 04:03:18.480
 it's been like, "This is a code amendment that three people of the seven-person commission

04:03:18.480 --> 04:03:19.800
 have talked about.

04:03:19.800 --> 04:03:23.640
 The other four might be a little bit somewhat blindsided about what was the thought process

04:03:23.640 --> 04:03:25.520
 in this, or did you guys think about this?"

04:03:25.520 --> 04:03:28.920
 And it might be good for us to bring some insight that would be good to bring into those

04:03:28.920 --> 04:03:32.120
 rooms in the DCRC discussions.

04:03:32.120 --> 04:03:36.720
 So just to make sure I understand your request correctly, so we could include on our meeting

04:03:36.720 --> 04:03:41.120
 agenda just a standing item with respect to Development Code Review Committee updates?

04:03:41.120 --> 04:03:45.800
 I don't really think it needs to be that, so much as it is what it is with saying, "Hey,

04:03:45.800 --> 04:03:48.800
 this is what's happened at City Council with items that have come across the Planning and

04:03:48.800 --> 04:03:49.800
 Zoning Commission."

04:03:49.800 --> 04:03:54.600
 Say, "Hey, DCRC recently," because it's almost always DCRC's meeting the Monday of the week

04:03:54.600 --> 04:03:55.600
 that we have Planning and Zoning.

04:03:55.600 --> 04:04:02.400
 Say, "Hey, on Monday, DCRC talked about short-term rentals, and we had discussions around reasonable

04:04:02.400 --> 04:04:05.920
 accessibility, reasonable competition."

04:04:05.920 --> 04:04:10.760
 It's been a long day, but being able to bring those up and say, "That's the topics that

04:04:10.760 --> 04:04:11.760
 are right now.

04:04:11.760 --> 04:04:15.680
 We've had three meetings now on short-term rentals, and this has kind of been what the plan and

04:04:15.680 --> 04:04:19.960
 process has been," just so other members of the commission know what the topics have been

04:04:19.960 --> 04:04:20.960
 at DCRC.

04:04:20.960 --> 04:04:24.680
 If they're not following those meetings and watching those videos and seeing those agendas,

04:04:24.680 --> 04:04:26.560
 they're kept in the loop on it as well.

04:04:26.560 --> 04:04:27.560
 Okay.

04:04:27.560 --> 04:04:29.760
 So including those in our matrix reporting that we do?

04:04:29.760 --> 04:04:30.760
 Yes.

04:04:30.760 --> 04:04:31.760
 Okay.

04:04:31.760 --> 04:04:33.560
 So basically, when Tina gives her spiel update, right?

04:04:33.560 --> 04:04:34.560
 Correct.

04:04:34.560 --> 04:04:35.560
 Yeah.

04:04:35.560 --> 04:04:36.560
 Okay.

04:04:36.560 --> 04:04:37.560
 Okay.

04:04:37.560 --> 04:04:38.560
 Very good.

04:04:38.560 --> 04:04:39.560
 We can do that.

04:04:39.560 --> 04:04:40.560
 Thank you.

04:04:40.560 --> 04:04:43.440
 100% of that, I think it's really wise.

04:04:43.440 --> 04:04:45.720
 I will support 100% of that.

04:04:45.720 --> 04:04:47.800
 I think it's very wise.

04:04:47.800 --> 04:04:52.160
 One thing I will point out, and maybe it's just because I can't find it on the website,

04:04:52.160 --> 04:05:03.920
 but I believe once the COVID additional meeting recording thing was reduced because of staff

04:05:03.920 --> 04:05:09.520
 availability, that we still record those meetings as a matter of public record, but they're

04:05:09.520 --> 04:05:16.040
 not posted on the webpage to view because they're not produced by DTV.

04:05:16.040 --> 04:05:22.400
 So even if there's just a way to circulate to the rest of PNZ, the link to go watch those

04:05:22.400 --> 04:05:28.640
 somehow, I think that may aid people getting a background of what the discussions were

04:05:28.640 --> 04:05:32.960
 like and what the tenor was.

04:05:32.960 --> 04:05:33.960
 For DCRC, correct?

04:05:33.960 --> 04:05:34.960
 Okay.

04:05:34.960 --> 04:05:35.960
 That's correct.

04:05:35.960 --> 04:05:36.960
 Yes.

04:05:36.960 --> 04:05:37.960
 Thank you.

04:05:37.960 --> 04:05:41.400
 Okay.

04:05:41.400 --> 04:05:44.200
 Anything else for the matrix?

04:05:44.200 --> 04:05:46.880
 Any concluding items?

04:05:46.880 --> 04:05:49.120
 Okay.

04:05:49.120 --> 04:05:54.480
 With that, I will adjourn our meeting at 9.52 p.m.

04:05:54.480 --> 04:05:55.320
 Thank you very much, everyone.