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 >> Good afternoon and welcome to the city of Denton's planning and zoning commission

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 meeting for Wednesday, April 12, 2023.

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 This is our work session and with a quorum present I will call us to order at 5.01 p.m.

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 First item on our work session agenda is citizen comment for consent agenda items.

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 Is there anyone wishing to speak on consent agenda?

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 Seeing none.

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 Let's move on to the clarification on tonight's agenda.

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 Let's work on through the minutes from the 29th.

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 Any questions on that?

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 Any questions on consent?

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 Four A has been withdrawn by the applicant so we will take no action on that.

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 Four B, commissioner Cole, I know you're going to recuse on that, correct?

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 Okay.

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 Are there any questions on that?

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 Want to go ahead and give a quick -- how are you, Ashley?

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 Good.

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 >> Ashley, assistant planner.

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 This is a final platform industrial use on approximately 37 acres at the intersection

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 of Mosh Branch and Jim Crystal.

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 We are currently recommending denial but we have no objection to the requested extension

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 until May 10th.

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 >> Okay.

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 May 10th.

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 Okay.

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 Questions for Ashley?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you very much.

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 Okay, commissioner Cole.

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 All right.

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 That will move us then to public hearings.

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 We have three of them on tonight's agenda.

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 Five A belongs to Angie -- you are here, Angie.

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 Hi.

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 Come on up.

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 Thank you.

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 >> Hey.

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 Good evening, everyone.

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 Angie Manglaris, senior planner.

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 And if you'll bear with me one moment.

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 Okay.

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 A bit of background on this case, this is PD 210007.

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 It is a plan development request that's going from suburban corridor to plan development

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 with a mixed use -- with a base zoning of neighborhood mixed use.

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 The intent of the plan development is to facilitate the development of a multifamily use consisting

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 of both horizontal multifamily and your traditional mid-rise apartment style complex.

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 It is consistent with the 2040 comprehensive plan.

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 It has a future land use designation of community mixed use which applies to key corridors in

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 the city that serve as transitional areas between residential and commercial areas.

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 It is consistent with our housing and population projections and staff is recommending approval

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 of this request this evening.

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 In addition to that summary, I wanted to follow up from our meeting that we had back on March

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 15th.

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 If you all recall, we did review this case and it was postponed to the 29th and then

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 again until this evening.

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 In that time, there were several questions that came up from the commission that staff

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 was directed to look more into and I wanted to give you a little bit of overview on some

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 of the responses to those questions and also let you know that the applicant will have

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 a representative of their traffic engineer who prepared the TIA at the meeting this evening

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 should you have additional questions of them.

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 But the questions that were asked at the 15th meeting that kind of wanted to summarize for

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 you all tonight was one question that was asked was were the nearby Denton ISD facilities

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 taken into consideration with the preparation of this TIA as you all know it was prepared

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 in the summer of 2021.

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 Summer is not typically a time that would account for school traffic which is why you

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 all asked that question.

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 So the traffic counts were adjusted for the school year traffic for the morning trips.

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 The TIA made an adjustment factor of 45% which essentially means that they added 45% of what

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 they counted on top of the AM peak traffic to accommodate for those DISD facilities.

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 I do want to point out that the same was not done for the PM trips because typically when

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 school is let out versus when rush hour is for office facilities, they didn't overlap

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 so much as in the morning when you would expect parents to be both dropping off their children

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 and going to their respective workplaces.

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 Angie, if I could ask you, so PM I assume is like 5 PM?

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 Yes.

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 Can I go to the next one if that's okay?

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 I just wanted to make sure I figured it was better to do a call and response type thing.

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 The next question was were recently approved developments in the region included in the

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 TIA?

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 So there's a few developments that have been approved in past years that are north of the

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 site including Stark Farms, Stewart Ridge, and Agave Ranch.

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 Stark Farm and Stewart Ridge were included in the TIA.

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 They accommodated for, they projected an anticipated build out of 2024 for Stark Farms and 2026

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 for Stewart Ridge.

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 And so the full build out for each site with a projected horizon of 2028 was incorporated

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 into this TIA.

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 Agave Ranch was not included in the factor for the TIA.

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 You, staff anticipated using the ITE's eighth generation manual that a development of Agave

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 Ranch's size you could predict an additional approximately 2400 trips per day.

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 So as part of this TIA Stark Farms and Stewart Ridge both of their projected build out were

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 included Agave Ranch is not included in that TIA.

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 COVID was also brought up as far as was that accounted for in the TIA.

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 Again this was done in the summer of 2021 where working remote was possibly a little

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 bit more predominant than we would expect today.

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 The TIA doesn't mention specifically any adjustments that were made for COVID-19.

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 The applicant does look at background traffic and projected traffic and uses the historical

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 traffic patterns over the last 10 years and comes up with an average growth rate of 1.17.

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 The applicant rounded up and used a 2% growth rate for the future for the TIA but the answer

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 is no.

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 COVID specifically was not adjusted for but a more conservative growth rate was predicted

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 than what the past 10 years had shown.

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 And then finally one of the questions that came up in the meeting was if the development

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 were to develop entirely as commercial would we expect to see a higher trip count or lower

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 trip count than if it were to be developed as proposed which would be the 20 acres developing

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 as multifamily development.

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 So using the eighth generation of the ITE we find average trip counts for different

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 uses and I looked at two different sites in the city to kind of give us a base comparison

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 rate.

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 One of them is the southeast corner of Sherman and Loop 288.

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 So while this is not exactly the same size, this is approximately 8.72 acres, it is just

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 on the south side of Loop 288 and kind of shows the development pattern that is in that

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 area today.

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 So with some convenience stores and gas pumps, restaurant with drive through, one restaurant

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 with drive through that is currently in review, the self-storage institute and the financial

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 institution also currently in review, you would anticipate approximately 5,600 traffic

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 trips to be generated with the development of that 8.7 acre site.

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 And then looked for a little bit larger of a site because this is a 20 acre site and

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 the southeast corner of Bonnie Bray and University felt like was a good example to show kind

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 of a comparison of rates.

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 This has a variety of commercial uses, all of which would be allowed in the SC zoning

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 district including restaurants with drive through, medical offices, dental offices, small

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 home improvement store, a grocery store which was Aldi, I believe that was mentioned, and

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 additional convenience stores, you would anticipate with these mix of uses on approximately 17.5

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 acres, we would have roughly 11,500 trips generated from a site of that size developing

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 in that matter.

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 Now this was used, again we used the eighth edition of the ITE manual to generate these

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 and got the traffic counts based on those proposed uses.

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 So it's an example of what could be anticipated if the site were to develop as commercial

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 entirely.

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 And then I did want to point out a few concerns were raised during the public hearing regarding

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 driveway spacing.

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 So the driveway spacing requirements for the city are met, the plan is compliant with that.

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 However, for text that approval there would be a variance required for those locations

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 to be approved as shown.

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 The italicized text which didn't show up quite as well as I had hoped, but allows, we added

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 additional language recognizing that a variance to text that is still needed and that those

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 locations may need minor modifications.

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 So the PD development standards have been amended to reflect that there may be a shift

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 in driveway location required as part of the text that approval process and that those

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 minor changes could be approved administratively by city staff rather than having to go back

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 through the entire public hearing process.

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 Now if there's a major change that's made that requires some sort of site design reconfiguration,

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 it probably wouldn't fall under the category of minor anymore and it would have to come

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 back to you on city council for ultimate approval.

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 So that was my brief summary of the case as a brief reminder of what we're discussing.

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 We're going from SC to plan development with the base zoning of MN to allow for the development

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 of multifamily uses on approximately 20 acres.

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 And then just some backgrounds on the requested information from PNZ from the last meeting

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 and that's all I have for you at this time.

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 >> Thanks Angie.

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 Questions?

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 Commissioner Cole.

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 >> Thank you Chair.

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 Thanks Angie.

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 So Northwest Denton has now entered the process into having a small area plan.

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 Would this area be in the aegis of that small area plan?

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 >> This area is at one of the most southern point of that area plan at the intersection

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 of 288 and FM428.

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 Yes it is within the boundaries of that study area.

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 So my concern is now that this small area plan is in the process, I'm counting the opinion

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 that maybe we need to respect that process and wait to see what comes out of the small

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 area plan.

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 I mean this is in it.

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 You know, I'm just struggling with this because I want to respect the process and this small

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 area plan is not only city generated but it's resident generated.

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 And I understand time is money to these people, these developers, I totally get that.

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 But I'm kind of of the mind that maybe we need to let this process play out to see what

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 comes out of it, if anything comes out of it.

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 >> Yes and we recognize that.

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 So it is and it doesn't surprise me that you're expressing that opinion.

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 So that is an option for the commission to consider as you deliberate this case as to

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 whether or not, you know, if you find that the existing request may not be appropriate

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 for this site and are more interested in allowing that area plan process to play out, I mean

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 that is your prerogative and you can voice that and have that reflected in your actions

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 this evening.

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 You know, when we take on these area plans, we know the timeline associated with them,

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 you know, it's roughly a 10 month process.

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 So we anticipate from time to time that we could have some overlap where we've got cases

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 that are filed while we are working on these efforts.

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 So it's -- we've been very transparent with the applicant, especially once city council

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 identified the areas that they wanted to focus on for the area plan.

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 So we tried to make sure that we're very transparent in communicating that message out.

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 You know, obviously this project when they filed it, it started well before that effort.

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 But we have kept them apprised of that through this project.

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 Yeah, the timing on that is really -- it's really rough for sure because that's an excellent

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 point and certainly a concern.

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 Other questions for Angie at this point?

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Thanks for bringing the information regarding the TIA.

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 That definitely cleared up some of our questions from last week.

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 Thank you very much.

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 Okay, let's go ahead and move on to Item B of our public hearings.

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 Mia is making the way up for that.

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 That is our reconsideration item.

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 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Mia Hines, Associate Planner.

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 Yes, this item is a request to rezone just under 13 acres from PDMN to PDSC.

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 That's an overlay PD.

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 The request itself would permit certain commercial uses appropriate for the context.

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 It would require compliance with the current EDC and require additional context-sensitive

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 site design considerations, keeping in mind sort of the adjacency to Teasley as well as

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 the adjacency to the residential properties to the west and the multifamily property to

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 the west.

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 Just a brief recap, if you followed along, this has been on your agenda a few times.

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 The P&Z initially heard this item on February 15th and recommended denial, and then on March

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 1st the item was -- this body voted to reconsider it.

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 It did come back again at the last meeting on March 29th and was continued by this body

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 mainly as the applicant requested it be continued because one of the reasons for it to be reconsidered

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 was for the full body to hear that case at that time, and we did not have a full body

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 that evening.

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 So staff is recommending approval of the request.

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 I do have a full presentation that I can go through during the regular session.

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 I did want to go ahead and skip ahead to the recommendation slide.

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 Within the PD regulations that were initially sent to you, the wording for -- at the bottom

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 of Section 2 of those PD regulations was a bit different.

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 This is given -- it's giving the same -- or serving the same purpose as what was initially

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 sent to you but sort of clarifies what was intended by that, and that is that the applicant

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 has agreed to limit the number of drive-through facilities permitted on this site to three

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 as long as they can be built on either Track 1 or Track 2 within the site, and so there

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 is a bit of a different language than what was initially sent to you, and that was -- that

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 markup and that clean version should have been sent to you this afternoon.

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 So with that, I will stand for any questions or comments that you have.

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 >> Questions from you?

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 >> Commissioner VilleRail.

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 >> Quick question for you, Chair.

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 Do you know if Commissioner Pruitt is planning on attending today?

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 >> Yes.

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 Commissioner Pruitt is running late, but he will be in attendance.

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 >> Gotcha.

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 Thank you.

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 >> Thank you.

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 Commissioner Smith.

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 >> Mia, on the staff recommendations there, it's going to be tied directly into the PD,

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 so there's not -- because of the base zoning, by right, the drive-through facilities are

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 allowed, but because of the PD, it's going to be built into there that it has the specifications

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 and stipulations within there?

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 >> Correct.

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 Yes, sir.

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 >> Okay.

239
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,200
 I just -- when it gets to really minute, small stuff like this, it gets -- I always feel

240
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:08,040
 like it gets hairy, and it gets a little bit worrisome on five, 10, 15 years from now,

241
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,120
 how do we run into something like this when someone wants to take out a building that

242
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:15,360
 is there and replace it with a facility that's going to have a drive-through, but it runs

243
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:16,360
 into that issue?

244
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:20,320
 So just, Grace, was there any consideration from city staff on that, kind of looking at

245
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,560
 this kind of being a really -- it's kind of -- it feels like almost a really small footnote

246
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:24,560
 into the development itself.

247
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:30,200
 Does that make sense?

248
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,440
 >> So we would make sure it's very clear in the PD ordinance with this limitation being

249
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,440
 provided.

250
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,280
 And as, you know, say five years from now, somebody wants to modify a building that was

251
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,200
 originally not constructed for drive-through purposes, but they want to add the drive-through,

252
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,760
 we have checks and balances put in place that would help protect the scenario and bring

253
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,760
 to the permitting process, but even in all likelihood, it's going to require modifications

254
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:56,760
 being made to the site.

255
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,800
 So they would be submitting zoning compliance plans to us, and as part of our review of

256
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,400
 the zoning, we would be pulling the plan development district ordinance, looking at the requirements

257
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,280
 in there, do an assessment of how many drive-throughs are currently within the district existing

258
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,260
 at that time to see whether or not it would trigger a specific use permit or if it's still

259
00:18:12,260 --> 00:18:13,260
 one of the three.

260
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:14,260
 >> Cool.

261
00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:16,640
 Great question.

262
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,320
 >> Anybody else?

263
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:28,480
 Mia, with this change, do you know if the neighborhood was -- or was there another meeting

264
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:29,480
 held at all?

265
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:30,480
 >> So this change --

266
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,920
 >> Because this is a little bit different than when it was heard the first time or when

267
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,560
 they had their meetings originally.

268
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:36,560
 >> Yeah.

269
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:43,360
 The change was sort of an added -- after the initial meeting and the feedback from P&Z,

270
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,840
 the neighborhood, when they responded, there wasn't a restriction on drive-through uses

271
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:48,840
 at all.

272
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:57,000
 So this would actually be an additional restriction to the PD that I haven't received any further

273
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,520
 feedback from the neighborhood regarding the change.

274
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:00,520
 >> Okay.

275
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,520
 Okay.

276
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:08,680
 Then the overall major concern about the whole thing is that light that is not there.

277
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,200
 Is that part of your presentation tonight?

278
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,720
 Are we going to discuss a little bit about that?

279
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,280
 >> So I can answer -- we do have our transportation planner here to answer any TIA-related questions,

280
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:23,940
 but I will say that we do estimate that -- or we -- the TIA will be required.

281
00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:28,560
 We anticipate some improvements might need to be made, but we will not know for sure

282
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,720
 until that TIA is submitted and reviewed for the city.

283
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:34,720
 >> Okay.

284
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:35,720
 Understood.

285
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,400
 Any other questions at the moment?

286
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,400
 Okay.

287
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,200
 Look forward to hearing it tonight.

288
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,200
 Thank you.

289
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,320
 That will take us to our public hearing item C for this evening.

290
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,320
 Julie is making her way up.

291
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:49,320
 Hello.

292
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,120
 >> Good evening.

293
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:56,600
 Let me pull up my presentation.

294
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,000
 All right.

295
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000
 Julie Wyatt.

296
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,880
 And this is the 230004 Camelot.

297
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,080
 This is a little different.

298
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,280
 We don't do these quite as often as we see other rezoning cases, but this is a city-initiated

299
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,680
 rezoning proposal from R3 district to R6 district.

300
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,880
 The subject property is located at the intersection of Hercules and Stewart, kind of situated

301
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,840
 to the north side of town.

302
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:27,120
 A little bit of history before -- I won't go into all of the details, but just a little

303
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,120
 bit of history.

304
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:34,080
 The property was plotted in 1979 with 20 residential lots developed with fourplexes.

305
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,840
 I think in my staff report I also talked about triplexes.

306
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,760
 I think it's mostly fourplexes.

307
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840
 We don't know exactly.

308
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,400
 And a couple of single-family homes on that Camelot Street.

309
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:51,760
 As you're aware, we updated our development regulations in 2002 and then in 2019 with

310
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,840
 that associated rezoning, which essentially created a nonconformity for most of the lots

311
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,320
 on this street.

312
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,640
 All those fourplexes are now nonconforming uses.

313
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:09,360
 This was brought to our attention late last year by a property owner, one of the property

314
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:13,000
 owners of the single-family dwellings who would like to convert it to a duplex.

315
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,640
 And we said, that use is not permitted.

316
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,400
 And so we looked a little deeper and realized that rezoning in 2002 and then the transition

317
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,680
 in 2019 had created this nonconforming situation.

318
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:31,720
 So the purpose of the rezoning is just to get those nonconforming uses conforming.

319
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,540
 They are existing fourplexes that people are living in, provide certainty for those property

320
00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:41,120
 owners if they want to make investments, also those residents who are living there.

321
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:49,480
 Denton 2040 comprehensive plan designates the area as low residential, doesn't quite

322
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:55,240
 fit within that low residential designation, but it does meet our overall goals of our

323
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,640
 comprehensive plan, the things like infill housing and maintaining our neighborhoods

324
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,480
 and providing that housing choice.

325
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:08,360
 So we are recommending approval of the city initiated rezoning to that R6 district.

326
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:10,840
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

327
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:17,640
 And I've got a full presentation if you'd like to see it or wait till the regular session.

328
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,360
 - Questions for Julie on this?

329
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:20,360
 Okay.

330
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:25,320
 Yeah, and we'll go over all the responses and whatnot with your presentation, I assume.

331
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,320
 - Yes, ma'am.

332
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,320
 - Okay.

333
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,320
 - All right.

334
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,320
 - Thank you very much.

335
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,840
 And that will move us to our work session reports then for this evening.

336
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,320
 First one is 3A, receive a report, hold a discussion regarding regulations related to

337
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,320
 nonconformities.

338
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,320
 Speaking of.

339
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,000
 - I'll just stay here.

340
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000
 All right.

341
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
 It's a surprise boot camp.

342
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,160
 So this is about nonconformities.

343
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:53,080
 I know it's not the most exciting topic, but we'll try to make it as lively as possible.

344
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,240
 So our nonconforming regulations are in our Denton Development Code and it is section

345
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,240
 1.5.

346
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,760
 That first chapter.

347
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,880
 So generally a nonconformity is something that was legally established under prior regulations,

348
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:15,120
 but no longer meets current regulations or development standards.

349
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,960
 Standards allow for the nonconformities to remain.

350
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:25,400
 So if you own a property and it's not conforming right now, it can stay as it is.

351
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:32,680
 But what we want to make sure is that we're not investing more in those properties.

352
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:39,600
 We want to discourage that further investment to make sure that we can be more in line with

353
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,240
 our current regulations, our current desire for neighborhoods.

354
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,760
 So while we want people to maintain their properties, we want them to know that a tremendous

355
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,640
 amount of investment would not be something that the Denton Development Code would allow.

356
00:23:54,640 --> 00:24:01,280
 There is one caveat to our nonconforming regulations and that is for single family duplex and town

357
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,040
 home dwellings.

358
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:10,640
 There was a consideration discussed in DCRC when we were adopting or crafting our 2019

359
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,160
 code and that is we didn't want to make any of those land uses, the single family duplex

360
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,700
 and town home dwellings nonconforming.

361
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,960
 And so there is a carve out for those.

362
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,920
 And that any of them, any of those uses that were legal at the time of the adoption of

363
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,940
 the 2019 DDC remain legal and not nonconforming.

364
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:32,320
 So I've got an example on your screen.

365
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,760
 It's a lovely little street that has duplexes that are no longer permitted under that existing

366
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,120
 R3 or the current R3 zoning.

367
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:47,060
 And so technically those would be without that carve out would be nonconforming.

368
00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:52,840
 But with that, those are lawful structures.

369
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,000
 So as I mentioned, nonconformity can continue.

370
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,360
 It can continue to be used and occupied, but there are limitations.

371
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,520
 Of course, we want people to maintain their properties.

372
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,200
 So those repairs are permitted.

373
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,020
 But that degree of nonconformity cannot be increased.

374
00:25:09,020 --> 00:25:13,020
 So you can repair some physical damage or deterioration.

375
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:14,420
 You can restripe parking.

376
00:25:14,420 --> 00:25:17,860
 You can replace landscaping.

377
00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:18,860
 You can paint.

378
00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:20,260
 You can do those sorts of things.

379
00:25:20,260 --> 00:25:26,880
 But you can't increase that nonconformity, and we'll go over that a little more specifically.

380
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,820
 If that nonconforming use or structure is discontinued for a year or more, all of those

381
00:25:33,820 --> 00:25:36,000
 nonconforming rights cease.

382
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,680
 So then you would have to come in conformance with the current regulations.

383
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,800
 And then we also have a provision in the code.

384
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,400
 I'm not sure if it's ever actually been used.

385
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,120
 But we can amortize nonconforming uses or structures.

386
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:58,680
 And that is that the ZBA is responsible for setting that plan.

387
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,600
 So let's talk about types of nonconformities.

388
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,520
 We actually have three types of nonconformities.

389
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,460
 The first one we're going to go over is nonconforming use.

390
00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:09,240
 So it kind of what it says it is.

391
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:15,640
 It is any use of land established legally, but that is no longer permitted.

392
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,600
 Nonconforming uses may not be expanded onto another structure on the site.

393
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:28,520
 No structural changes to an existing building are permitted.

394
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,600
 And you can't add any more dwelling units.

395
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:36,320
 So if you have a nonconforming use and you have a big building, you could potentially

396
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,800
 expand that use within the confines of that building, but you cannot increase the size

397
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,800
 of that building.

398
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,000
 You cannot then jump over to another building, nor can you make structural changes to that

399
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:51,560
 building to accommodate an expansion of that nonconforming use.

400
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,800
 A nonconforming use could be changed to another nonconforming use if a property owner can

401
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,200
 prove that that new use is not more intensive than the existing use.

402
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,720
 But it can't be converted back.

403
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,480
 So you can't skip back and forth.

404
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:12,960
 A really good example of a nonconforming use within the city of Denton is we have a manufacturing

405
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,600
 use that was established prior to 2002.

406
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:22,320
 At that time, the zoning was LI, and so the use was permitted.

407
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:30,060
 In 2002, that zoning changed to downtown commercial general, and that use was no longer permitted.

408
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:36,760
 And then that zoning transitioned to MN, and that use is not permitted now as well.

409
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,520
 So that is a nonconforming use.

410
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,160
 And really, it's because the vision of this area has changed.

411
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:49,680
 This is kind of near our downtown in southeast Denton areas, and so that vision of the area

412
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:50,680
 has changed.

413
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,440
 It might at one point have made sense in that area, but it no longer makes sense now.

414
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,320
 So it is that nonconforming use.

415
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,280
 And that's where it comes in that, you know, that's how we look at our nonconforming use

416
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,200
 is to say we want you to maintain your property, but maybe not a tremendous amount of investment,

417
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,880
 because we do want to see those areas redevelop in a way that's part of our vision.

418
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:12,880
 Commissioner Smith.

419
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:13,880
 Thank you, Chair.

420
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,080
 The intensive use change here.

421
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:23,960
 So let's say a bar owner comes in and wants to buy that property, and it's obviously a

422
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,400
 less, and I'm assuming it's not allowed in that area, it is.

423
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,320
 But I'm just trying to think of a scenario which would get to the point of my question,

424
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,840
 which is expansion, no structural changes, a decrease in square footage, is that going

425
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,480
 to be permitted if they wanted to modify the building, but decreasing the usable square

426
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,480
 footage?

427
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,680
 Let's say they're tearing down a portion of the building to then build it out to be

428
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:47,680
 a beer garden.

429
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,320
 That's the best thing I can come off the top of my head.

430
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920
 But it seems like all the nonconforming uses pieces within there, the only thing we really

431
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,100
 ever see with nonconforming use issues is the expansion of it.

432
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:03,240
 Is a decrease or a modification, but lessening square footage, is that allowed within that,

433
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,680
 by how that definition is written?

434
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,760
 These are always tricky, and I'm going to look at my ... But probably ...

435
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,760
 It's technically a structural change, right?

436
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,840
 Is it a structural ... Yes, it is a structural change.

437
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:22,040
 And are you asking, could they change to another use, like a beer garden?

438
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,000
 So for instance, an MN, a beer garden, because it sells alcohol, would require a specific

439
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
 use permit.

440
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,000
 Yeah.

441
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,320
 I'm thinking more of like, let's say there's a manufacturing plant that's all been enclosed,

442
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,480
 but they now need a space that's actually open air.

443
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,320
 It's a nonconforming use.

444
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,080
 They tear a portion of the building down that's now open air storage.

445
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,040
 It's still a nonconforming use, but it's a reduction of the structure itself.

446
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,040
 It depends.

447
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,040
 Give you tough ones too.

448
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,240
 I'm going to toss that to Tina.

449
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,080
 So you raise a good question.

450
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,840
 We would look at their drawings and plans and seeing what is it that they're proposing

451
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,080
 to do.

452
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,720
 My first thought would be is, we've got to look at the schedule of use charts to see,

453
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,640
 okay, is the use that's being requested truly less intensive from how we classify the uses

454
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,880
 in the use table?

455
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,560
 We would look at the footprint of what was used previously.

456
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,400
 So let's say this building is a thousand square feet, but they want to use 500 square feet

457
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,640
 for office and use the remaining 500 square feet for storage purposes.

458
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,480
 If they were using the existing building, we'd probably say, yes, we could work through

459
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,840
 that because they're not expanding the building.

460
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,760
 If they're wanting to alter the building though, then I think that would become more of an

461
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:44,920
 issue because I thought on her prior slide, you cannot have any structural changes to accommodate

462
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,400
 non-conforming uses.

463
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:54,040
 That structural change would be accommodating non-conforming use.

464
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,800
 Bottom line, and Julie may have not necessarily gotten to this yet in her presentation, but

465
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,640
 the goal with non-conformities is that they go away, especially non-conforming uses.

466
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:08,200
 My apologies if I'm stealing your thunder, but the zoning regulations presumably changed

467
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,240
 for a reason, probably because of policy direction that was provided to the city of we want this

468
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,700
 area to change and evolve.

469
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:20,220
 We don't like how it's been, and so we want to set a new course and direction and accommodating

470
00:31:20,220 --> 00:31:25,200
 a new path for areas, and I've been in communities that have done that.

471
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,360
 When it comes to non-conformities, when we change regulatory requirements, the goal is

472
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,840
 eventually that those uses will go away.

473
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,640
 Our ordinances are set up where they allow the non-conformity to continue operating,

474
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:42,740
 but we purposely put limitations on them so that they cannot be comfortable for expansion.

475
00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:47,320
 We'll allow you to continue existing, but we're going to keep parameters on you, and

476
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,840
 some of those parameters might be uncomfortable for you, but we, the city, made a conscious

477
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:58,160
 decision that we don't want more of these uses happening within this area, so that's

478
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,600
 why we made the change.

479
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,760
 We actually allow for modifications to a certain extent.

480
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,600
 To me, the fact that we allow for a property to go from one non-conforming use to a lesser

481
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:16,840
 non-conforming use causes me a little angst as a planner, but that's the path that we've

482
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,800
 chosen here in Denton, and so be it.

483
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,080
 I've worked in communities where we've been more aggressive with that, because we are,

484
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,640
 especially if we are trying to direct change in an area and wanting certain uses to go

485
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:34,560
 away, then we want conforming uses, because keep in mind, while that one use of the building

486
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,840
 may be non-conforming, there are a variety of other uses that are allowed within the

487
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,720
 zoning district that somebody could do in the property, so those are the uses that we

488
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,320
 want to get to, right?

489
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,800
 We don't want to make it super comfortable for the non-conforming uses to be able to

490
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:53,000
 continue to expand and exist, so that's kind of the planning 101 behind that, and sorry,

491
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,760
 like I said about this.

492
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:55,760
 Part two to the question.

493
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:56,760
 Thank you, Tina.

494
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,760
 I appreciate it.

495
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,960
 Everything that was talked about non-conforming has always been land use and zoning.

496
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:09,640
 There's never really anything in the code about operations occurring, right?

497
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:17,200
 Manufacturing plan, shut down, owner never sold it, and eventually the owner is still

498
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,040
 going to own it or a trust owns it, son comes in 15 years later, manufacturing plan hasn't

499
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,320
 been operating, comes back in and wants to take that property.

500
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,360
 It's non-conforming, wants to start operation, operating it again.

501
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,320
 It doesn't change ownership, but do we kick in anything at that point in time, the non-conforming

502
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,320
 use is there?

503
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,920
 So if they ceased operations for more than a year, they do not get the non-conforming

504
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:38,920
 use back.

505
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,920
 Got it.

506
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,920
 Okay.

507
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,920
 Was that in there a second ago, and I just missed that?

508
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,920
 It is, but yeah.

509
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,920
 Right.

510
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080
 And here in Denton, in my opinion, we're actually generous because we give people a year.

511
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:53,440
 Many communities that I've worked in, it's six months, so it is, because like I said,

512
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,160
 the goal is for these uses to go away.

513
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:02,200
 So if a non-conforming use ceased operation, and in our case in Denton, if they have ceased

514
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,180
 operation for more than a year, then they don't get the non-conforming use anymore.

515
00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:10,680
 They can have all the conforming uses available to use the property for, but they don't get

516
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,360
 the non-conforming use, because it's in some of the things that we look at going through

517
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,840
 ours, especially when we're hitting that one year market, was there truly one year mark,

518
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,260
 not market, but was there truly an intent to abandon the use?

519
00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:28,640
 Was the water account disconnected, has there been no activity that we've been able to document?

520
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:34,120
 Because we take these issues seriously, right, but we look to see, okay, was there true intent

521
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:41,120
 for abandonment of that use, because on the flip side, we are sensitive to the fact that

522
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,640
 properties have, especially when they've got non-conforming uses, if the property owner

523
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,860
 had a tenant that closed its doors, nine months later, they finally get a new tenant in there.

524
00:34:50,860 --> 00:34:54,400
 We realize they have those property rights, and so we honor those, right?

525
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,360
 So, but, you know, if that year comes and goes, and somebody wants to try and reopen

526
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,880
 that business, and that use is not allowed, then we'll inform them of that.

527
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,000
 Commissioner Cole?

528
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,440
 Thank you, Chair.

529
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:15,480
 I think the most likely scenario for non-conforming use, though, are all the homes that are within

530
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,220
 500 feet of a gas well.

531
00:35:18,220 --> 00:35:19,720
 There are many here in this town.

532
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:27,560
 So that was the catalyst for why we put residential uses, not non-conforming.

533
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:35,600
 So a swath of the vintage gets, takes out, gets, you know, trees fall, whatever, on Vintage

534
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,760
 Street, where that, you know, all those homes are within 500 feet of a gas well, and they

535
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,160
 have 50% damage or whatever.

536
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:50,040
 I mean, my problem with it is, is that it's going to, you know, some of these people are

537
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,760
 going to be homeless, and it's going to take them six months to even, I mean, to go through

538
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,360
 this process if the ZBA even allows them to do this.

539
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,700
 So by right, can they rebuild those homes?

540
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:03,700
 Is that what you're saying, or?

541
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:08,160
 So I'm going to call my gas well expert, because that's the part of the code I'm still learning,

542
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,660
 so I'll admit.

543
00:36:09,660 --> 00:36:14,160
 When the gas well ordinance was updated a couple of years ago to the 500 foot reverse setback,

544
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,760
 council intentionally built in an exception that all of the existing residential uses

545
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,040
 and lots within that 500 foot radius are considered legal.

546
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,040
 They're not non-conforming.

547
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,040
 Right.

548
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,480
 Because I put in, you know, I was the one that suggested the grandfather clause that

549
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:35,880
 would have made this so much easier, but council and their wisdom didn't see it that way.

550
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:42,680
 That, you know, I just don't want to process people to death in that scenario, you know.

551
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,680
 So thank you.

552
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,680
 Yes.

553
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,680
 That's great.

554
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:46,680
 Yeah, in that case, they're completely protected.

555
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:47,680
 Awesome.

556
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:48,680
 Thank you, Haley.

557
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,160
 Julie, I think we're going to let you continue with the presentation, and then we'll.

558
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,800
 Otherwise, we're going to steal all your slides.

559
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:54,800
 All right.

560
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:55,800
 No, no.

561
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,000
 Y'all are doing great.

562
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,240
 Our two other types of non-conformities are non-conforming structure and non-conforming

563
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:02,240
 lot.

564
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:06,200
 So a non-conforming structure is any structure established or constructed legally, but no

565
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,880
 longer conforms.

566
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,760
 This is important to look at because if a non-conforming structure is damaged by natural

567
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:23,000
 causes and less than 50% was damaged, they can rebuild to that original condition.

568
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:30,720
 But if 51 or more percent of that building is damaged, then it may not be rebuilt.

569
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:37,240
 And so that comes into, you know, all of those considerations that Tina was talking about

570
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,560
 or that Tina mentioned.

571
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,020
 And so we want to keep that in mind.

572
00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:47,680
 Non-conforming lot, that is a legally established lot that no longer complies with the current

573
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,440
 dimensional standards.

574
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,840
 Structures on non-conforming lots are considered non-conforming structures.

575
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,800
 I want to mention one thing, non-conforming lots may be built upon.

576
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:06,120
 So legal non-conforming, if it was a platted lot and it no longer conforms, someone can

577
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,120
 build on it.

578
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,120
 We wouldn't prevent it.

579
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,600
 But they do have to meet current dimensional standards.

580
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:18,200
 So my example here is if a platted R4 lot is smaller than the minimum requirement of

581
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,480
 7,000 square feet, minimum 50 feet width, 80 feet depth, someone can still build on

582
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,640
 that, say, if it's a 6,000 square foot lot.

583
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:33,440
 But they do have to conform to those setbacks for R4, and that would be 20 feet front yard,

584
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:44,520
 20 feet side yard adjacent to a street, 5 yard interior side, and then 10 feet rear.

585
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,480
 And then we have -- I'm sorry, we have four non-conformities.

586
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:48,720
 I misspoke.

587
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,780
 And then lastly, we have our non-conforming site feature.

588
00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:55,440
 That is a legally established site feature that no longer complies.

589
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,040
 That's where we're getting into those site design standards, like where your parking

590
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:04,540
 is located, where your driveways are, what kind of landscaping and screening you have.

591
00:39:04,540 --> 00:39:07,440
 So we have an example here.

592
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,600
 The property was built in the -- we think it was built in the 1960s.

593
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,080
 It has zoning of MN, which does not allow front parking.

594
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:24,040
 So that front parking can continue in perpetuity as long as it stays as it is and it's being

595
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,040
 used.

596
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:32,000
 But if they expand the building, if they tear down the building, if they want to do specific

597
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,560
 thresholds of additions, then they will have to address that non-conformity, and they cannot

598
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,200
 increase that non-conformity.

599
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,000
 You know, they also have potential challenges with maybe the driveway throat length and

600
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,480
 those driveway separations.

601
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,240
 So in the event they want to redevelop that site, we would have to look at that site,

602
00:39:52,240 --> 00:40:00,520
 see what they're proposing, and see where that site can become -- come into conformance.

603
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,860
 So Tina mentioned how to -- eliminating non-conformity.

604
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:09,320
 So we do -- there are instances where our vision of an area is changed, and we want

605
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,640
 to look at those non-conforming uses and see how to get them in compliance.

606
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,240
 A non-conformity can cease.

607
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:18,240
 We talked about that.

608
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:22,400
 If it -- after a year, they lose those non-conforming rights.

609
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,880
 Or the code does allow the amortization.

610
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,400
 Once again, I'm not sure it's something that the City of Denton has used in the past, but

611
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,360
 it is in our Denton Development Code.

612
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:38,240
 It can be modified to come into compliance with the DDC and become legally conforming.

613
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:44,240
 Or in the instance of some cases that we have, it can be rezoned to a district that permits

614
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:50,360
 the use or a PD, which would establish unique standards to accommodate especially that non-conforming

615
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:51,360
 site feature.

616
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,360
 One --

617
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,360
 >> True.

618
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,360
 Can I stop you for a minute?

619
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:55,360
 >> Absolutely.

620
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,360
 >> You've said the word "amortized" a couple of times.

621
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,480
 Do you want to just expound upon what that means?

622
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,480
 >> Yes.

623
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,160
 I have my -- and I'm going to try not to talk out of turn.

624
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:09,800
 But it can set a deadline for when that -- when that non-conforming use would cease.

625
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:16,360
 So say 10 years out that everyone's investment-backed expectation would have been met.

626
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,760
 And then that non-conforming use would need to go away.

627
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,080
 So did I say that, and then Tina might want to add to that?

628
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,320
 >> Well, and just to expand on that.

629
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:31,160
 So what Julie said is correct, and I've worked in communities that have employed something

630
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,160
 to this nature.

631
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:42,400
 You know, the goal is to allow for a property owner, business owner who -- maybe non-conformity

632
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:47,920
 to be able to continue operating for a defined period of time, but to allow them to be able

633
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,600
 to recoup some of the investment that they've made into that property.

634
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,160
 It is -- to me, it is a little bit more aggressive approach, particularly if the city were to

635
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,360
 embark on that path.

636
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,080
 It is an option that cities have utilized.

637
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:08,640
 But it -- to me, it is -- it becomes a little more challenging, because the business owner

638
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,800
 or the property owner is having to prove up that they need a certain amount of time in

639
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,560
 order to be able to amortize all of their investment or to recoup all of their investment

640
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:24,440
 that they've made within the property, and then presumably possibly wanting to have some

641
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,200
 sort of financial benefit in the end, right?

642
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:33,400
 So then it becomes potentially something that's negotiated between the city and the property

643
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,400
 owner.

644
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,840
 You know, the property owner may say, well, I need 20 years, and the city is saying, well,

645
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,080
 no, we only would give you 10 years.

646
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,760
 Help us understand your numbers, right?

647
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:47,000
 And so it's -- in my experience, it's not something that has always been implemented.

648
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,680
 I've seen it done, particularly like with some specific use permits for temporary uses,

649
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,720
 which is even a challenge, because then you're coming back to a property owner, you know,

650
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:59,480
 say five years, 10 years from now and say, oh, hey, by the way, remember, you agreed

651
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:00,480
 to this?

652
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,440
 So -- and so it's -- hence why it's not the most popular option, but it is an available

653
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:07,640
 option that's out there.

654
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,280
 And I don't know, y'all might have remembered many -- several years ago, I would say maybe

655
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,720
 about five years, plus or minus, there was a case that played out in the court of public

656
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:20,720
 opinion on the news with respect to an automotive business down in Dallas.

657
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:21,720
 But --

658
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:22,720
 Well, I saw you.

659
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:28,120
 Okay, so -- you're obviously familiar with it, but anyway, but, you know, the city of

660
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,640
 Dallas was looking to have some non-conforming uses go away, and apparently there was agreement

661
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,720
 put in place with a particular automotive-related use, and the time was coming due, right, for

662
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:40,760
 them to have to close their doors.

663
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:50,600
 And so it was well advertised within the news, and -- but it was, you know, there was an

664
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,840
 amortization schedule that was put in place as to when that business would agree to cease

665
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:56,840
 operations.

666
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,920
 So it sometimes makes the city look really bad in that effort, and, you know, on that

667
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,040
 one, I knew there was two sides to every story, right, but that is something that, you know,

668
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,080
 the city of Dallas used in that particular instance.

669
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,800
 Thank you.

670
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,280
 And then ultimately, some of you may remember this case that came before you.

671
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:22,360
 It probably had been three or four years ago, but a -- there was a hospital use.

672
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:29,040
 That use was permitted, that zoning was MR, but the parking space, the number of parking

673
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,680
 spaces that they had and they wanted, and then the parking lot landscaping no longer

674
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,360
 conformed to our 2019 Denton Development Code standards.

675
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:46,040
 And so in order to eliminate that non-conformity, they actually rezoned to a PD to accommodate

676
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,920
 their existing development and then actually a hospital expansion.

677
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,240
 So we've mentioned the ZBA a couple of times, just want to go over kind of their duties

678
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,160
 briefly as they relate to non-conformities.

679
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:07,200
 ZBA is a quasi-judicial board, and it has seven regular members plus alternates.

680
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:14,280
 Quasi-judicial, actually, when you present or speak to the ZBA, you actually get sworn

681
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:21,800
 in, so it's a little different than P and Z. 75% of the members have to be in attendance

682
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,840
 for a quorum, and their decisions are final.

683
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:35,240
 The next place to go, if the outcome is not to someone's liking, would go to court.

684
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,360
 So that's where it gets in that quasi-judicial.

685
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,280
 And they hear variances from the DDC and the sign code.

686
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,880
 They hear relief from from gas well setbacks, appeals and administrative decisions, and

687
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,760
 then also where you get into that request regarding non-conformities.

688
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,680
 They can establish, reestablish, change, terminate them.

689
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,800
 All of their decisions require a supermajority, so six out of seven of the members have to

690
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,640
 approve something.

691
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:10,760
 And they are bound by Texas Local Government Code Chapter 211, Denton Development Code,

692
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,080
 and also our city charter.

693
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,520
 And that concludes the presentation, if you have any questions.

694
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,000
 Excellent, Julie.

695
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,000
 Thank you.

696
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,680
 Any questions?

697
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,200
 We answered them along the way.

698
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,200
 Yeah.

699
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,200
 Thank you very much.

700
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,320
 If I could add a follow-up comment.

701
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,320
 Yes, of course.

702
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,080
 So as Julie pointed out, we did a surprise boot camp presentation for you this evening

703
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,800
 on non-conformities, but we felt it was appropriate to have this conversation in light of the zoning

704
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:44,160
 case that you have on your agenda this evening, because of the fact that with those properties,

705
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,480
 they are in a non-conforming status.

706
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,520
 So just want the Commission to be able to understand, you know, the rules that come

707
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,840
 along with non-conforming properties to hopefully provide some better context.

708
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:53,840
 Thank you.

709
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:54,840
 Very much.

710
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:01,160
 Okay, we've got one more work session report today, and it is 3B, Receiver Report Holder

711
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,600
 Discussion Regarding Regulations, Procedures Related to Public Hearing.

712
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:11,720
 I think this is a follow-up to one of our studies from before.

713
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:12,720
 Hello.

714
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:14,240
 Hi, Julie Wyatt.

715
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:20,320
 I think Hillary's going to be the star of this to talk about notification in the ETJ,

716
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:28,040
 and then I do have some follow-up information regarding notifications in our city website.

717
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:33,160
 Haley's been working with our tech services group, our social media group, and so I don't

718
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,520
 know if y'all want Hillary to talk first or how you want it to go.

719
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,520
 You're welcome.

720
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,520
 However you would like to do it.

721
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:40,520
 We're experts.

722
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,800
 So this will be fairly short.

723
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:50,440
 At MemoryServes, I was asked to look into the risks of affirmatively, like, opting into

724
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,560
 notifications within the ETJ and whether there were litigation risks or reputational risks

725
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,840
 if someone received a courtesy notice from being in the ETJ and thought they were to

726
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:07,840
 be counted within the 20% protest threshold and were confused and annoyed.

727
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:14,200
 So the very long story short of my research is that as long as our notices are drafted

728
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:25,260
 carefully and, of course, upon receiving direction from city council to do so, there's not appreciable

729
00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:32,600
 risk of litigation from a protest counting standpoint if courtesy notices are sent to

730
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:37,640
 members of the community who reside in the ETJ.

731
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,360
 I can expand upon that if y'all wish, but it ended up being fairly straightforward.

732
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:48,600
 Yeah, and you're basically talking, having language maybe on that notification that states

733
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:49,600
 something about--

734
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,000
 Something to the effect of you were, because of your proximity to this project, you're

735
00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:00,160
 receiving this courtesy notification, please be aware while you're welcome to come to the

736
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:07,360
 meeting and give comment and PNC can absolutely factor your comment into your decision.

737
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:14,200
 You're not going to be eligible to be counted and cite to the 20% provision in TLGC.

738
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:15,200
 That's good.

739
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:16,200
 That's good.

740
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,200
 And there was no-- Sorry, Chair.

741
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,200
 I just talked about that.

742
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,200
 Commissioner Smith, go right ahead.

743
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:26,680
 The 500, because we have the 200 and 500, so it would be the 500-foot kind of boundary.

744
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,760
 Was there any conversation about the distance from the legal standpoints that keeping conformity

745
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,720
 would just be those that are in the 500-foot boundary that fall into that?

746
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,040
 I think I assumed that it would be within the 500-foot threshold.

747
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,040
 Because that's the courtesy notice boundary.

748
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,800
 Because that's our courtesy threshold, absolutely.

749
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,200
 That could be modified by direction from council.

750
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,200
 Okay.

751
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:50,840
 Oh, the last little tidbit I have is if there's appetite for such an action among PNC, the

752
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:55,720
 best way to sort of elicit that direction from council would be to talk to your council

753
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:56,720
 member.

754
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:00,920
 It's our thought.

755
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,400
 About the desire to-- About the desire to do that.

756
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:10,960
 And the idea being that they would probably ask for a two-minute pitch and then build

757
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,400
 consensus there and then direct staff to implement.

758
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:15,400
 Great.

759
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,840
 What if we don't have a council member currently?

760
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,120
 Pick one and email him.

761
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:21,120
 Okay.

762
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,120
 Find somebody at-large.

763
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,400
 Hilary, thank you for talking it down.

764
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,520
 Yeah, of course.

765
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,520
 That's great.

766
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,840
 Julie, we'll give it back to you.

767
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:31,840
 Yes.

768
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:39,700
 There was additional discussion that evening about our website, there's some kind of concerns

769
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:46,840
 about finding those notices and lots of clicks, and so we've been working with tech services

770
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,080
 to try to get that a little more streamlined.

771
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,280
 I did check it before I came.

772
00:50:52,280 --> 00:51:00,380
 I typed in my zoning case in the search bar of our website and it popped up.

773
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:03,240
 So it looks like that is working well.

774
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:12,120
 There are also two places on the City of Denton landing page that will get you to our development

775
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:17,120
 notices, and I'm sorry, it is really hard to see, but it was difficult to take a screenshot

776
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,200
 with the drop-down menu.

777
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,280
 But one place you can look is under residents, and then news and stories, you've got development

778
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,320
 notices here.

779
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,840
 And then also you can click on business, and that will also have an option for you to click

780
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,340
 on development notices.

781
00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:36,160
 It then pulls up our development notices page.

782
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:41,760
 It not only has notices regarding our zoning cases, but also our area planning efforts.

783
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:49,280
 I looked some of our northeast and southeast area plan, upcoming public engagement activities

784
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:54,080
 are actually on those notices, so it's got a lot of information on it.

785
00:51:54,080 --> 00:52:02,680
 We met with tech services yesterday to also see how we can still continue to improve.

786
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:10,160
 One thing we talked about is just maybe updating the copy, the kind of language that we use

787
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:19,400
 to make sure that while we are all very much engaged in the planning speak and those buzzwords,

788
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:26,240
 and we all know what they mean in terms of everyone in this room, the citizens at large

789
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:28,480
 may just not know what all of those things mean.

790
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,060
 So we're still workshopping that because we want to make sure we get it right.

791
00:52:33,060 --> 00:52:40,880
 And then also they talked about quarterly social media posts as well as front page news

792
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,320
 flashes to advertise those development notices.

793
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:51,800
 So the news flashes, if you go to the City of Denton, the landing page, you've got kind

794
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,880
 of the trending topics box.

795
00:52:53,880 --> 00:53:00,200
 So to add that in there every once in a while to continue to advertise that and let people

796
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:07,020
 know that we do have a development notices page that they can look at at any time.

797
00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:11,680
 So that really concludes kind of what's going on behind the scenes in terms of the website

798
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,480
 to get that information out.

799
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,280
 >> Yeah, that's a little bit better.

800
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,240
 I was really hoping for a button where we've got like public meetings, job opportunities,

801
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:26,200
 those kind of things, it just being right there on the front page instead of finding

802
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:32,080
 it under residence, finding it under business and finding it that way.

803
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,320
 So I think it could be -- >> We tried.

804
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,720
 >> I mean, that's really what I was going for.

805
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:43,040
 Like no more of the hunt and hunt and hunt and oh, okay, found it.

806
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:48,960
 It just being there, you know, like, I mean, if they didn't want to, because they've already

807
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,480
 got buttons that go across the page maybe and they didn't want it to scroll, then maybe

808
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,840
 lose the -- I don't know, probably lose one of these.

809
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,320
 At any rate, thank you.

810
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,400
 It's better at least.

811
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,400
 Two clicks.

812
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,400
 That's good.

813
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:10,200
 So part of our challenges come from the way the website's formatted and so there are limitations

814
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:16,000
 because we did -- you know, I have witnesses, both Julie and Haley were part of that conversation.

815
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,440
 But we did talk about, you know, is there a way to make it much more obvious especially

816
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,440
 on the city's home page?

817
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:25,840
 You know, the challenge is we're also -- we're competing with all of the other information

818
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:31,120
 being communicated out to our residents and property owners within the community and businesses

819
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,640
 for that matter.

820
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,800
 So hence why we were exploring what other options did we have available to us to be

821
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:43,760
 able to help get the word out and obviously, you know, you all can be advocates, too, for

822
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:49,880
 being able to encourage persons to be able to sign up for these development notices and

823
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,320
 in particular the project opt-in notifications aspect that we have as well.

824
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,240
 So it's -- the word's getting out, I think, slowly.

825
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:03,200
 We looked at some of our -- they were able to pull some of the analytics and probably

826
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:08,960
 not as many folks have signed up that you all would prefer, but part of it is just helping

827
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,280
 get that word out and that's where I, you know, where I come back to, you all can be

828
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,960
 advocates in that effort as well.

829
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:20,360
 Maybe one place I would suggest if you ever have this tech meeting again is, you know,

830
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,600
 we've got a public meetings button there.

831
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:31,440
 Maybe when you get to public meetings, maybe it could be in that list of, you know, links.

832
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,400
 I think that would make sense.

833
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,400
 Okay, as well.

834
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,200
 I don't know who's first, but I'll go here.

835
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

836
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:39,200
 You're next.

837
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,720
 >> Thank you, Chair.

838
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:46,480
 Would it be permissible for us during concluding items to put a future motion on an agenda

839
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:54,000
 to make a recommendation as a body to add ATJs into the notification system?

840
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,320
 I understand we can individually go to our council members, but I think it would be more

841
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:03,960
 effective if we as a body made that recommendation to council.

842
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:10,000
 >> So procedurally or structurally, there's not necessarily a problem with that.

843
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:16,760
 It's just not something that from what I've seen and been told from MAC and such that

844
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,440
 there's not usually -- let me back up a step.

845
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:26,400
 The form that that action would take would likely be a resolution recommending this action.

846
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:36,280
 And we just don't typically see recommending boards make policy recommendations in that

847
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,720
 manner.

848
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:40,020
 I think it could be done.

849
00:56:40,020 --> 00:56:45,240
 I don't have a problem with it per se from like a procedural compliance perspective.

850
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,040
 Tina, do you have any thoughts?

851
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,840
 >> My thought was if it's the general concurrence of the Planning and Zoning Commission that

852
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:59,480
 notifications, at least courtesy notifications, be extended into the ETJ, if that's the result

853
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:05,800
 of our conversation, then to me, Chair Ellis as the chairperson of the Planning and Zoning

854
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:11,440
 Commission could also approach the mayor, for example, and have that conversation with

855
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:16,160
 them and just say, hey, the Planning and Zoning Commission discussed this and it was the consensus

856
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:23,560
 of the commission that council strongly consider courtesy notices within the ETJ and would

857
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,960
 respectfully request that the council take that up as a two-minute pitch.

858
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,920
 So to me, you could have that opportunity to be able to have that conversation with

859
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,200
 the mayor because presumably you have conversations with the mayor about how things are going

860
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:40,160
 with the Planning and Zoning Commission from time to time, and so to me, that would be

861
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,880
 perfectly within the realm of the chair.

862
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,780
 >> Thank you.

863
00:57:45,780 --> 00:57:48,080
 >> Commissioner Smith?

864
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,600
 >> On the concluding items that we'd like to include kind of going forward with this

865
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:57,040
 note, the development notices piece of it, could we just, I think maybe just as a reminder

866
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,440
 from a chair perspective to say, hey, you know, thank you all for very much, like by

867
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,460
 the way, you guys can sign up for development notices in the future by going to the website

868
00:58:05,460 --> 00:58:09,320
 residence, click residence and then you can see it and just, if we say it from the day

869
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,800
 us, it'll probably get even more so out there, especially maybe if we say it at the very

870
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,000
 beginning, but just kind of throwing it out there, beginning of meetings and everyone's

871
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,000
 there.

872
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,320
 Shouldn't do it at the end because usually at the end everyone had, they've already

873
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:22,320
 left.

874
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:29,440
 So the, so say even at the beginning of the meeting, say today is a quick PSA, throw it

875
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,200
 out there at the beginning.

876
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,000
 >> Procedurally we could do that since, I mean, do we have to wait for concluding items

877
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,000
 to do something like that?

878
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,000
 >> No, I don't think so.

879
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,000
 I don't want them speaking.

880
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,960
 >> You could do it during a public hearing, in my opinion, especially if we have folks

881
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,880
 that are interested in the project.

882
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,360
 Before you close the public hearing, you know, that's the opportunity to make the PSA announcement

883
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:53,360
 as well.

884
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,080
 Just part of an educational effort.

885
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,080
 >> Okay.

886
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:57,080
 Great.

887
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,080
 >> Yeah, absolutely.

888
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:59,080
 >> Yeah.

889
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:00,080
 Great.

890
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,080
 Good.

891
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,080
 Commissioner Pruitt.

892
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,080
 >> Thank you, Chair.

893
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,920
 And I apologize if this had already been discussed since I arrived late.

894
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:16,880
 Was there any discussion amongst staff about whether sort of already ongoing city outreach

895
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:24,440
 activities could include this as a component of that to try to grasp people who are interested

896
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:31,120
 about city stuff, but they haven't ever considered this avenue of being an active citizen?

897
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:32,320
 Does that make sense?

898
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,640
 I think last time we talked about this, I had brought up the possibility of doing so

899
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:41,040
 at the State of the City meetings or maybe at the public events like Jazz Fest or stuff

900
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,840
 that we already have a city booth there with some information.

901
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:50,200
 >> Yeah, when we're doing, when we have those presence within the community, for example,

902
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:54,360
 right now we're really working on public engagement efforts associated with Northeast and South

903
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,440
 East and eventually downtown, I mean, we can include that also in promoting that.

904
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,400
 You know, hey, if you're interested in following development activity within the city, we encourage

905
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,320
 you to go on our website.

906
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:09,360
 We've even talked about like having a QR code presence at those events, whether it's something

907
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:14,600
 we hand out or, you know, have the QR code available where people can just scan it right

908
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:15,600
 there and then.

909
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,000
 So, yeah, we've had some of that conversation.

910
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,000
 >> Thank you.

911
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,000
 I appreciate that.

912
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,000
 >> Thank you.

913
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,320
 Anything else on this?

914
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,320
 Okay.

915
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:34,040
 Well, at 6.01, I will adjourn our work session and we will meet back in council chambers

916
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:35,040
 at 6.30.

917
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:40,480
 Thank you.

918
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,280
 >> Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting

919
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,380
 for Wednesday, April 12, 2023.

920
01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:51,640
 With a quorum present, I will call us to order at 6.35 p.m.

921
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,880
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas flags.

922
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:03,680
 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

923
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:11,560
 for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for

924
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:12,560
 all.

925
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:13,560
 >> Honor the Texas flag.

926
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:21,000
 >> I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

927
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,220
 >> Thank you.

928
01:01:25,220 --> 01:01:29,480
 Next item on our agenda tonight is the approval of the Planning and Zoning Commission minutes

929
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,680
 for our March 29th meeting.

930
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:33,680
 Commissioner Smith.

931
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,880
 >> Make a motion to approve.

932
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:36,880
 >> Commissioner Villarreal.

933
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:37,880
 >> Second.

934
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:43,240
 >> We've got a first and a second for approval of the minutes for March 29th meeting.

935
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:44,240
 Any discussion?

936
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:45,240
 Okay.

937
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:53,160
 Let's vote on the board, please.

938
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,760
 That motion carries 7-0.

939
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,480
 Next on our agenda is the Consent Agenda for this evening.

940
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:01,480
 Commissioner Villarreal.

941
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,360
 >> I move to approve all the -- >> Okay.

942
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:06,360
 Commissioner Smith.

943
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:07,360
 >> Second.

944
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,440
 >> We've got a first and a second to approve the Consent Agenda.

945
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,440
 Any discussion?

946
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:12,440
 Okay.

947
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:19,720
 Let's vote on the board, please.

948
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,960
 That motion carries 7-0.

949
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,380
 Next are our items for individual consideration.

950
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:29,840
 Item 4A has been withdrawn by the applicant, so we will take no action on 4A.

951
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:34,920
 That will bring us to 4B, FP 23-0006.

952
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:41,680
 Commissioner Cole is recusing himself from this item.

953
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:43,680
 And Ashley is here to give us presentation.

954
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,680
 Good evening.

955
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:45,680
 >> Good evening.

956
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,840
 Ashley Eckstead, Assistant Planner, City of Denton.

957
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,240
 This item is FP 23-0006.

958
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,980
 This is a final platform in industrial use at the intersection of Mosh Branch Road and

959
01:02:55,980 --> 01:02:59,400
 Jim Crystal Road on approximately 37 acres.

960
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,960
 At this time, staff is recommending denial, but we have no objection to the requested

961
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,720
 extension until May 10th, 2023.

962
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,680
 Happy to answer any questions.

963
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:07,840
 >> Thanks, Ashley.

964
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:08,840
 Any questions?

965
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:09,840
 Okay.

966
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,680
 I don't see any.

967
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:12,680
 Thank you so much.

968
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:13,680
 Commissioner Villarreal.

969
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:18,600
 >> I move approval of the extension to a date certain of May 10th, 2023.

970
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:19,600
 >> Thank you.

971
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:20,600
 Commissioner Smith?

972
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:21,600
 >> Second.

973
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,880
 >> We've got a first and a second for approval of the extension request to a date certain

974
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,480
 of May 10th, 2023.

975
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:28,480
 Any discussion?

976
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:29,480
 Okay.

977
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:43,260
 Let's go ahead and vote, please.

978
01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:45,840
 That motion carries 6-0.

979
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:50,000
 We'll give Commissioner Cole a minute to get back in, and that'll bring us to our public

980
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,440
 hearing items for this evening.

981
01:03:52,440 --> 01:04:00,600
 Our first one this evening is 5A, PD 210007C.

982
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,200
 Angie's making her way up to the dais.

983
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:06,160
 That public hearing has remained open.

984
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,280
 Go ahead and give it to you for presentation.

985
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,280
 Thank you.

986
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,280
 >> Yes, ma'am.

987
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:11,280
 Good evening.

988
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,120
 Angie Minglaris, Senior Planner, City of Denton.

989
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,360
 All right.

990
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,000
 So this is PD 210007.

991
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:24,520
 This is a rezoning request from suburban corridor to a planned development district with the

992
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:26,800
 base zoning of mixed-use neighborhood.

993
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,360
 The site is generally located at the northeast corner of FM 428 and Loop 288.

994
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,000
 It has a future land use designation of community mixed-use in the Denton 2040 Comprehensive

995
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,200
 Plan.

996
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,240
 As it is today, the site consists of predominantly open pasture.

997
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,360
 It does have mature tree canopy on site and a detention pond situated along the southern

998
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,300
 boundary of the property.

999
01:04:46,300 --> 01:04:53,060
 The approximately 20.92-acre site is part of a larger 25.48-parent tract.

1000
01:04:53,060 --> 01:04:56,600
 You can see here in both your aerial and the zoning exhibit, the very hard corner, which

1001
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:01,760
 is approximately 4.5 acres, is not part of this planned development request.

1002
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:07,240
 The intent is to remain as SC zoning for future development of commercial.

1003
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,280
 Surrounding zoning in the site consists of a variety of zoning districts.

1004
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:16,720
 We have some residential 4, suburban corridor, and then across the street, 428 is public

1005
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:17,720
 facilities district.

1006
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:22,160
 A little bit of background on this case before we go further into detail.

1007
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,000
 The site is zoned SC, which typically allows for multifamily development with approval

1008
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,000
 of a specific use permit.

1009
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,000
 The reason you're seeing this as a planned development district case before you this

1010
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:38,880
 evening is the development plan contemplates approximately 52 units as horizontal multi-living

1011
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:39,880
 units.

1012
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:45,740
 Given that this application came in in November of 2021, the DDC did not have a definition

1013
01:05:45,740 --> 01:05:49,800
 that really encapsulated the horizontal multi-living use.

1014
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,480
 Since that time with the demand that we've seen in the city, the DDC has been updated

1015
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,640
 and that is now in allowed use.

1016
01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:00,680
 So if this site were to come in today, they would likely be applying for an SUP as horizontal

1017
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,120
 multi-living is in allowed use in the DDC.

1018
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,600
 However, given the timing of the application, it came in before this was in allowed use

1019
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,720
 and it had gone through several iterations and reviews.

1020
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,840
 Staff continued with the plan development path that this case was on.

1021
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:20,360
 A little bit more just on the area of where this plan development is located.

1022
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:26,520
 FM 428 and Loop 288 are the two roadways that would serve this site.

1023
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:30,080
 FM 428 is a textile owned and maintained road.

1024
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,400
 It is currently constructed as a two-lane road.

1025
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,720
 The 2022 mobility plan does reflect this as a freeway.

1026
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,760
 However, since that plan has been adopted, TxDOT has informed the city that that is to

1027
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,000
 remain as a primary arterial roadway.

1028
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,920
 And then Loop 288 is to the south of the site.

1029
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:47,920
 It runs east-west.

1030
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,200
 It is also owned and maintained by TxDOT.

1031
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,480
 It is currently an existing limited access freeway and is currently constructed as a

1032
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,800
 four-lane divided freeway.

1033
01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:59,680
 A bit about the development plan itself.

1034
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:04,560
 Again, this is a plan development request for the development of a multi-family site.

1035
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:10,180
 It includes both horizontal multi-family units and your traditional mid-rise apartment units.

1036
01:07:10,180 --> 01:07:15,080
 In the blue here on your plan in front of you, you can see where the 52 proposed horizontal

1037
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:20,120
 multi-family units would be situated and as you move further south on the site as you

1038
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:26,600
 get closer to Loop 288, you have five traditional mid-rise apartment buildings totaling 305 units.

1039
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:30,680
 As part of the development standards, the horizontal multi-living component would follow

1040
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:36,600
 the architectural and site design standards of our single-family neighborhood development

1041
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:37,600
 products.

1042
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:42,000
 And then I also want to point out on this plan you can see here on the eastern side

1043
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,080
 of the site there is a reservation for the half width of a future residential street.

1044
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:51,040
 While at this time the TIA did not support the need for the dedication and construction

1045
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:56,440
 of additional north-south roadways, should as the area continue to develop that need

1046
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:57,720
 is warranted.

1047
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:02,160
 The city does have the 25 and a half foot right of way reservation for the eventual

1048
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:08,440
 dedication and construction of any north-south connectivity that's needed in the area.

1049
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,000
 A little bit more about the development plan.

1050
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,620
 They did include detailed landscape plans with their submittal.

1051
01:08:13,620 --> 01:08:19,840
 The base zoning of MN calls for a 20% landscaped area and 40% tree canopy coverage.

1052
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,680
 Both lots one and two exceed that requirement.

1053
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:30,640
 One proposes 31% landscape coverage with 50% mature tree canopy, and lot two has a total

1054
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:35,720
 landscaped area of 36% and 73% mature tree canopy.

1055
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,440
 In addition, throughout the site there are various on-site amenities meeting our open

1056
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:45,700
 space requirements including pocket parks, dog parks, a few passive recreation lawns

1057
01:08:45,700 --> 01:08:49,600
 and trails throughout the site to connect residents to those locations.

1058
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:54,120
 And then to the north of the site there is a landscape buffering between the development

1059
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,840
 and what could go to the north and then also along the property line where future commercial

1060
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:04,600
 development could go there is additional landscape buffering.

1061
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:10,880
 A TIA was performed for this development request and there were three main takeaways from this.

1062
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,480
 I'll point them out here as I kind of talk through them.

1063
01:09:13,480 --> 01:09:18,960
 One was that a southbound turn lane be constructed at driveway location one on FM 428.

1064
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,680
 So that's this location here.

1065
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:26,920
 The second recommendation was that a northbound right turn deceleration lane for both driveways

1066
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:31,200
 one and two be provided and that's shown on the concept plan here running north-south

1067
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,080
 on FM 428.

1068
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,040
 And then finally that a westbound right turn lane be provided at driveway location three

1069
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:43,080
 which can be found here along loop 288.

1070
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,560
 In reviewing this, staff did review this plan against our general criteria for approval

1071
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:52,520
 as well as approval criteria for plan development districts and did find that this meets our

1072
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,240
 criteria for approval.

1073
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,880
 Specifically, the project is consistent with the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan, provides

1074
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,160
 a greater level of design quality than what could be achieved with straight zoning.

1075
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,560
 It's compatible with our surrounding areas and there are public facilities in the area

1076
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,480
 that are adequate to serve the development.

1077
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:16,760
 A look at the Denton 2040 comprehensive plan, the future land use designation shows this

1078
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,400
 area as community mixed use.

1079
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,520
 Community mixed use applies to key corridors in the city that are designed to service transitional

1080
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:28,080
 areas between our residential areas and our commercial developments.

1081
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,160
 Residential areas are permitted within the community use future land use designation

1082
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:36,200
 and are designed to be complementary and supportive of commercial uses.

1083
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,600
 The proposed project as it is today does provide that transition from the residential sites

1084
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:45,680
 that you have to the north as you get closer to the more intensive developments that you

1085
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:52,560
 see along Loop 288 and the residential that's developed would be supportive of the future

1086
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:57,200
 commercial that could go in on the remaining SC portion of the site.

1087
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,320
 This is just a little bit closer look at how the area has been developing.

1088
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,960
 You have a similar development pattern emerging to the south of Loop 288 where the apartment

1089
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:13,280
 multifamily uses are situated and then the outlying parcels are remaining for commercial

1090
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:14,280
 development.

1091
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:19,400
 They are located at the southeast corner of Loop 288 in Sherman, however across the road

1092
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:24,720
 was a recently approved ZCP for Sherman Crossing which also has the same multifamily coming

1093
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:31,040
 in and the remaining out parcels for commercial are left there along Loop 288.

1094
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,400
 In addition to that, the plan development is consistent with our housing and neighborhood

1095
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:40,040
 goals which do call for providing a variety and diverse range of housing styles and price

1096
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:45,880
 points in various locations throughout the city.

1097
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,600
 The development standards do have some proposed deviations from what would be allowed via

1098
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:51,600
 straight zoning.

1099
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,600
 I'm not going to read them all out to you but I did want to point out some of the main

1100
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:56,920
 ones.

1101
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:02,220
 If the site were to have a base zoning of MN, the permitted uses allowed in the DDC

1102
01:12:02,220 --> 01:12:03,220
 are varying.

1103
01:12:03,220 --> 01:12:07,960
 There is a wider range of uses that could be allowed in MN zoning.

1104
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,680
 With this plan development, the applicant is proposing that the uses be restricted to

1105
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:17,280
 multifamily and horizontal multifamily with any of those accessory uses that are typical

1106
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:23,320
 of multifamily developments, amenity centers, leasing offices, pools, garages.

1107
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:29,000
 Then in addition, the horizontal multi-living standards for this particular site refer to

1108
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:36,160
 using the single-family development architectural style and site orientation for the horizontal

1109
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:41,480
 multi-living component rather than the multifamily design standards that would be typically applied

1110
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:47,160
 if this were to come in under straight zoning which allows for just a greater variety of

1111
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,160
 architectural design standards on site than what could otherwise be achieved under the

1112
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,560
 DDC.

1113
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,720
 Public outreach was conducted in accordance with state law as well as the Denton Development

1114
01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:59,720
 Code.

1115
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,920
 Notices were sent out as well as this was posted in the Denton Record Chronicle.

1116
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:09,520
 At this time, we've received 17 responses in opposition to the request.

1117
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:16,440
 The applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting and that was back in March of 2022.

1118
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:20,160
 Staff is recommending approval of this request as it does comply with our general criteria

1119
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:24,640
 for approval as well as our criteria for approval for plan development districts.

1120
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:28,040
 The next step in this project would be a public hearing at City Council which is currently

1121
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,160
 scheduled for May 2nd, 2023.

1122
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,160
 With that, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

1123
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,800
 I believe the applicant is also here with the presentation.

1124
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:37,800
 Thanks Angie.

1125
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,960
 I don't see any questions at this time but we'll call you back if we do.

1126
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,440
 Thank you so much.

1127
01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:51,720
 Yes, I do have a group presentation from the applicant so I'll go ahead and have them come

1128
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:52,720
 up first.

1129
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,040
 Amy, did you want to start it off?

1130
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:56,040
 Thanks.

1131
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:57,040
 Good evening Commissioners.

1132
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:01,400
 Amy Bissett, 97 Land Company, 109 North Elm.

1133
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,120
 I appreciate being here this evening.

1134
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:11,440
 We're going to take a little bit of a different format than you might normally see from me.

1135
01:14:11,440 --> 01:14:13,080
 I am here with a group.

1136
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:17,840
 I'm going to open the presentation tonight with a general overview of how we've gotten

1137
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:24,400
 to where we are today as well as the neighborhood engagement activities that we have completed

1138
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:28,840
 and then I'm going to hand off to Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne.

1139
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,920
 He's our traffic engineer and he's going to go into some detail regarding the methodology

1140
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:38,640
 of the traffic study and then lastly he's going to hand off to Brian Grant with JPI representing

1141
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,560
 the developer of the multifamily and horizontal multifamily.

1142
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:49,800
 Appreciate your patience as we work through this.

1143
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:57,200
 I won't reiterate what Angie has gone through but I do just want to say that in the suburban

1144
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:02,800
 corridor zoning district it is moderate to high intensity commercial office and retail

1145
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,800
 uses.

1146
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:11,680
 If you looked at the slide that Angie presented on the 2040 plan just moments ago you can

1147
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:18,960
 see that when you look at the northeast quadrant of Denton there's this one node that allows

1148
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:23,520
 for some density and some commercial from a future land use standpoint and everything

1149
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:29,220
 beyond that that was visible on the screen was low density residential which we understand

1150
01:15:29,220 --> 01:15:34,800
 and respect the neighbors and the residents of this area and their desire to keep this

1151
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,720
 low density residential moving forward.

1152
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:47,520
 Our site specifically is on the far south end of the coming small area plan and has

1153
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:52,480
 taken into consideration or attempted to take into consideration their concerns and their

1154
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:57,860
 desires for the future of their area of the city.

1155
01:15:57,860 --> 01:16:04,800
 And as Angie reiterated when we came in we applied for a PD in November of 2021 that

1156
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,840
 was really our only option at that point in time due to the horizontal multifamily that

1157
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:11,960
 we were proposing.

1158
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:18,080
 So just to give you a brief overview of our development plan you can see here from south

1159
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:25,800
 to north we decreased density we have concentrated the vast majority of the density a long loop

1160
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:26,800
 288.

1161
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:33,000
 We have 52 single family for rent units and 305 multifamily units on the far south end

1162
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,920
 and we are reserving the hard corner for future commercial.

1163
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,800
 I'm going to show you a couple of things related to that in a moment.

1164
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:46,280
 JPI is in partnership with Standridge companies to develop that corner and Stacey Standridge

1165
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:51,480
 is here tonight if you have specific questions for him on timing or intentions going forward

1166
01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:52,480
 on that.

1167
01:16:52,480 --> 01:16:58,440
 I'm going to show you a couple of pictures of the renderings and elevations that are

1168
01:16:58,440 --> 01:16:59,440
 proposed.

1169
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:04,640
 This is a rendering of one of the multifamily buildings and here are building elevations

1170
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:15,280
 associated with those buildings and then here's the horizontal multifamily detached.

1171
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:19,440
 So what I really want to focus on a little bit here is our timeline and we did initiate

1172
01:17:19,440 --> 01:17:22,680
 a zoning change in November of 2021.

1173
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:28,840
 We attempted our first neighborhood meeting in February of 22 mailing to everyone within

1174
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:36,840
 the 500 foot requirement and we did not receive any RSVPs beyond the property owner and we

1175
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:43,560
 voluntarily broadened our communication to the northeastern neighborhood association

1176
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:48,920
 neighborhood group and opening that up to their full invite list and held a neighborhood

1177
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:54,360
 meeting in March and had approximately 60 attendees.

1178
01:17:54,360 --> 01:18:01,280
 Subsequent to that between March and May we fielded multiple questions, requests for additional

1179
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:07,080
 information that we pushed out to the neighborhood when desired and I'll go through a little

1180
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,820
 bit on what that included in a moment.

1181
01:18:09,820 --> 01:18:15,460
 In April of 2022 we were very close to being released to go to public hearing when a couple

1182
01:18:15,460 --> 01:18:20,840
 of asks were made of the city that really sent us back to the drawing board.

1183
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:25,240
 The first of those was the right of way reservation on the eastern side of the property and the

1184
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:31,760
 second was the addition of a 40 foot utility easement for a potential 30 inch water line

1185
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,160
 along loop 288 in the future.

1186
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:40,240
 We went back to the drawing board and accommodated those requests, it took us the better part

1187
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:45,600
 of four months to just redesign the entire site and then have been through multiple subsequent

1188
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,040
 reviews with staff since then to get to where we are today.

1189
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:53,560
 We did update the traffic study during that time frame as well to reflect the changes

1190
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:59,360
 made to the site plan and then now here we are today at public hearing.

1191
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:05,680
 As it relates to community engagement, we did host a virtual neighborhood meeting.

1192
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:11,360
 We opened it up to anybody that's on the mailing list for the northeastern neighborhood group.

1193
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:16,400
 We recorded the meeting, we provided a record of that meeting as well as the slides and

1194
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:22,040
 the chat record to the neighborhood group afterwards and then over the course of a couple

1195
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:27,560
 of months we got additional requests for information everywhere from unit mix and sizes, parking

1196
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:32,960
 ratios, trip generation tables, intersection level of service, days and times of traffic

1197
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:38,120
 counts, methodology for how we calculated open space and landscape requirements, roof

1198
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:44,320
 peak heights and we followed through and provided all that information as requested.

1199
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:50,480
 We also made some improvements that were reflected in the update to the traffic study but were

1200
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:56,360
 also borne out of some feedback from the property owners that were participating in the neighborhood

1201
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:57,360
 meetings.

1202
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:00,960
 The first one being that southbound left hand turn lane, one of the biggest concerns we

1203
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:08,640
 heard was the stacking of traffic at the Loop 288 light and then secondly was the consolidation.

1204
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:14,200
 We had multiple access points on Loop 288 and they were specifically concerned about

1205
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,960
 the western most access drive being too close to the intersection and somebody trying to

1206
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,000
 cut across to turn south on 428.

1207
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:30,120
 We pushed that intersection as far east as we could to still meet city requirements.

1208
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:36,640
 So when we did go back and make the right of way reservation and the offset for the

1209
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:40,320
 40 foot utility easement, we reworked the site plan.

1210
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:45,400
 We had intensive reworking of the tree preservation plan including multiple visits by an arborist

1211
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:52,680
 with city staff and because that eastern part of the site is where most of the trees are

1212
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:57,320
 and then they were discounted out of our calculations.

1213
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:02,200
 We lost about eight and a half percent of units and unfortunately it aligned us with

1214
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:08,840
 the timing of the kickoff for the small area plan when we got back here today.

1215
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,360
 We heard from you guys on March 15th some concerns that were expressed there.

1216
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:18,120
 I'm going to hand it off in just a moment to address the traffic concerns.

1217
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:23,320
 As it relates to bicycle path and safety on Sherman Drive, we have been working both with

1218
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:29,040
 the retail developer on our side of the site to provide connectivity that is off road connectivity

1219
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:33,620
 along the sidewalk path on the side of the road there and then we've also been talking

1220
01:21:33,620 --> 01:21:37,800
 to the property owner on the other side of the street about connecting from the existing

1221
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:42,200
 sidewalk at the water park all the way down to Loop 288.

1222
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:46,640
 I'm going to show you a few concepts by Standridge companies and then I'm going to turn it over

1223
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:48,960
 to Brian with Kimley Horne.

1224
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:53,200
 These are just a few of the developments that Standridge has done in recent years that are

1225
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,920
 representative of something that might go on this corner.

1226
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:57,920
 All right.

1227
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,440
 Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne.

1228
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:06,320
 Good evening.

1229
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:11,520
 Brian Schomburger with Kimley Horne, 801 Cherry Street, Fort Worth, Texas.

1230
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:16,280
 Traffic engineer for the project have been involved since we've begun the process.

1231
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:20,240
 Look forward to want to talk a little bit about some of the, again, Amy mentioned some

1232
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:23,920
 of the questions that you have, want to discuss some of those.

1233
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,360
 Also want to address some of the comments we've received from some of the neighbors

1234
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:32,360
 and just talk a little bit about how we're addressing some of those issues.

1235
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:38,000
 So there have been some comments on the traffic counts and the actual level of service results

1236
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:43,000
 that were provided as part of the traffic study.

1237
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,880
 As far as the timing of when the traffic counts were made, because of when the development

1238
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,680
 was moving through the process, we were in the middle of the summer.

1239
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,000
 And it's not uncommon to have that happen.

1240
01:22:54,000 --> 01:23:00,720
 And so we sat down with the city's traffic engineers and staff and talked about that.

1241
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:05,080
 We frequently gathered information, traffic counts during the summer and then we can make

1242
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,600
 adjustments to account for school conditions.

1243
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,560
 It's very best practice when that happens.

1244
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:16,040
 And that was agreed to with city staff as we were completing the methodology for the

1245
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:17,960
 scope for the traffic study.

1246
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:23,360
 In what we did to develop a school adjustment factor, we had counts that we then compared

1247
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:27,280
 our current counts to historic counts in the area along Sherman Drive.

1248
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:32,440
 Interesting, obviously with an evening peak for a development like this that happens outside

1249
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:35,840
 of school conditions and with after pickup and drop off.

1250
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:42,000
 So the evening peak was real similar to what the normal school time conditions are.

1251
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:46,800
 In the morning, we noticed that is about 45% lower than when school is in session.

1252
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,360
 So we applied an adjustment factor.

1253
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:54,840
 We increased the AM peak hour traffic conditions in the area 45% to account to get it back

1254
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:59,760
 to normal conditions, which again, it's a common thing we do to apply that seasonal

1255
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:00,760
 adjustment factor.

1256
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:05,040
 I know there's a question about a COVID adjustment factor.

1257
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:09,720
 We discussed this during the scoping of the traffic study with city staff.

1258
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,160
 Based on the traffic volumes and everything that they've been seeing in the area, the

1259
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:16,560
 traffic volumes had already really returned to pre-COVID conditions.

1260
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:22,680
 Everyone's kind of getting back to normal operations and so the COVID adjustment factor,

1261
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:28,560
 which had been done in previous years probably, but it was not required by staff.

1262
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:33,480
 Also the accuracy of the traffic counts themselves and again, the level of service results, you

1263
01:24:33,480 --> 01:24:37,040
 know, there's been a lot of eyes from professional engineers.

1264
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:41,960
 I'm a professional traffic operations engineer, been doing this for almost 30 years.

1265
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:48,040
 It was reviewed and accepted by the city's traffic engineers, also an outside third party

1266
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:52,480
 traffic engineering consultant, looked at the scope, looked at the results, everything

1267
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:56,520
 was reviewed and accepted.

1268
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:04,000
 Also a consideration for why the Agave Ranch traffic was not included, that development

1269
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:09,200
 was not approved at the time that we were preparing and submitting the TIA, so it was

1270
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,040
 not included.

1271
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:16,280
 We did include the other planned developments like Stark Farms and Stewart Ridge planned

1272
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:20,920
 developments in as part of the traffic study, so that was accounted for, but we also included

1273
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:27,240
 a 2% background growth for the time when the project's going to build out and also the

1274
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:31,800
 horizon year, so there was significant additional background traffic growth that was accounted

1275
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:38,040
 for, which included in the PM peak an additional 500 trips during the PM peak, which more than

1276
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:45,240
 was double the traffic that would have been generated by the Agave Ranch traffic.

1277
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:51,520
 So another comment on the consideration of football games and the other, the nearby stadium

1278
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:58,080
 events, something to, you know, we look at this, we talked about this, you know, the

1279
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:07,220
 frequency of when those events occur and whether that should be used to really drive the recommendations

1280
01:26:07,220 --> 01:26:11,080
 and any type of things that would come out of a traffic study.

1281
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:15,760
 Those events only really happened about 10 to 15 times throughout the year, and given

1282
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:21,760
 that infrequency, really the overlap between stadium traffic and the planned development

1283
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,960
 traffic was not a requirement by staff.

1284
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:32,920
 Important to note that when those types of events happen, in relationship to, when we

1285
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:38,280
 talk about, let's just talk about the overlap of our peak period and the evening type traffic

1286
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:42,520
 on it, when an event occurs, especially for football games or things like that, that spread

1287
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,560
 out over several hours prior to the events.

1288
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:50,960
 The busiest time really happens in that six to seven, right before the seven o'clock game,

1289
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:56,720
 and that doesn't coincide with the PM peak of the development, which traditionally occurs

1290
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:58,720
 between five and six.

1291
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:05,240
 And so, and really the most congested time for any type of game day type of event traffic

1292
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,520
 would happen immediately after games, and that's when that surge of traffic and people

1293
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:12,880
 leave, because everyone leaves at the same time.

1294
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:20,720
 So we did look also at the, when those, what's happening and how the management of traffic

1295
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,360
 happens during those game day events.

1296
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:28,320
 Denton ISD does have a special event traffic management plan.

1297
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:35,200
 All of the home traffic, they exit to Stewart Road, enter and exit off of Stewart Road,

1298
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:38,680
 and then the visitor traffic enters and exits off of Sherman Drive.

1299
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:44,120
 So really, less than half of that traffic is really ever going to be seen on Sherman.

1300
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:45,360
 So they're doing their best that they can.

1301
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:49,520
 That's happening outside of the peaks for our development, again, when our traffic is

1302
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,540
 considerably less.

1303
01:27:52,540 --> 01:28:00,200
 Some comments about whether or not traffic related to Hartleafield Road should be included,

1304
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:05,040
 and that intersection up to the north should be included as part of the TIA.

1305
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:09,360
 None of the development traffic actually has access to Hartleafield Road, so based on discussions

1306
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:14,600
 in developing the traffic study scope, it was not included, and we talked to city staff

1307
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,600
 about that, and we all agreed that that should not be included.

1308
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:26,440
 Similar, there were some comments about site distance relative to both at Hartleafield

1309
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:31,640
 Road and the conditions up there, but along Sherman Drive, and we wanted to talk and provide

1310
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:36,360
 you some information about site distance at our proposed drive, the main northernmost

1311
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:40,000
 drive along Sherman Drive.

1312
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:45,520
 All of the driveway locations meet all of the requirements for both TXDOT, federal,

1313
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,960
 and also City of Denton transportation criteria.

1314
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:53,880
 The actual required site distance is 500 feet, and you can see that distance from the northernmost

1315
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:57,480
 drive is that yellow marker there.

1316
01:28:57,480 --> 01:29:02,800
 This gives you a view of looking at that point up the road to that yellow point, and you

1317
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:06,240
 can see all the vehicles that are coming in this direction.

1318
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,640
 We also took another vantage point of right at that northernmost drive looking north,

1319
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:13,880
 and as you can see up there, there's that warning sign.

1320
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:22,040
 That's actually located right at Hartleafield Road, and that's further north than the actual

1321
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:26,820
 required site distance, so if you look at that, that's another 150 to 200 feet further

1322
01:29:26,820 --> 01:29:32,240
 down the road, and we can see that sign, so there's more than adequate site distance

1323
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,080
 at the northernmost drive.

1324
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:41,840
 There's also looking south, which is almost 600 feet down to the interchange at 288.

1325
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:45,680
 Again, that exceeds all the site distance requirement.

1326
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,880
 That driveway, you've got really good site distance in both directions, so you can see

1327
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:54,320
 anyone, so you can be able to get in and out onto Sherman Drive.

1328
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:59,720
 Speaking of the driveways themselves along Sherman Drive, we had city staff supported

1329
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:01,560
 two driveways along Sherman Drive.

1330
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:06,960
 It makes sense from how the development will ultimately develop.

1331
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:12,480
 All driveways exceed the city's arterial driveway spacing criteria.

1332
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:17,640
 As Amy mentioned, we are providing right turn lanes at both driveways, and the southernmost

1333
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:22,000
 drive will be constructed as a right-in, right-out, and that's going to fit real well with the

1334
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,840
 future roadway conditions as being a four-lane divided, where there would be a median opening,

1335
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:30,840
 so you'd have right-in, right-out conditions.

1336
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:35,640
 The southern driveway, though, will require variance approval by TxDOT, and we're continuing

1337
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:41,440
 to work with TxDOT to ... What we did as part of this, we found the optimal location based

1338
01:30:41,440 --> 01:30:45,520
 on spacing, both from 288 and the northern drive.

1339
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:54,880
 And then the driveway along 288, that meets all TxDOT driveway spacing criteria.

1340
01:30:54,880 --> 01:31:00,880
 And Amy mentioned multimodal access, bikes and pedestrians on the area, bicycle and pedestrian

1341
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:02,560
 safety along Sherman Drive.

1342
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:06,960
 It's important we understand that, and again, we're continuing to have those conversations

1343
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:12,880
 about how we can make accommodations and explore different types of off-street bicycle and

1344
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:17,360
 pedestrian facilities to improve safety along Sherman.

1345
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:18,360
 Thank you.

1346
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:19,360
 Thank you.

1347
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:26,400
 I'm going to go very quickly, it looks like we've got less than three minutes.

1348
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:33,560
 Brian Grant with JPI 600, Las Clienas Boulevard, not very much time, so I ask a lot of questions,

1349
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:37,200
 and I answer them for you, but quick history about who JPI is, what we're going to build.

1350
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:40,960
 I've got a lot more pictures than words, because words are harder for me, because I'm not as

1351
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:46,440
 smart as the other Brian, but JPI have been around for 33 years, we're headquartered in

1352
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:51,280
 DFW, we've been in Irving, the existence of our company, multifamily is what we do, it's

1353
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:55,280
 what we've always done, we're the most active developer in DFW, and have been for the last

1354
01:31:55,280 --> 01:32:02,520
 seven years, so we know the market well from the area and like developing in the community.

1355
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:05,960
 Picture some of our exteriors, I know Amy showed the rendering earlier, but just high

1356
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:09,600
 level, lots of nice materials, lots of glass.

1357
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:15,680
 Each exterior is unique to the sub market that we go to, we try to design to the area,

1358
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:20,040
 there's not a cookie cutter elevation that we use, we're very intentional about how we

1359
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,720
 design these communities.

1360
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:27,440
 Clubhouse shot, some examples there, you can see lots of double volume space, lots of glass,

1361
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:32,520
 high end finish outs, we'll hire interior designers, we have several firms we work with

1362
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:37,920
 who are very intentional with their design, and they're on top of design trends, and

1363
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:43,560
 know what's gonna be timeless and look good and mesh well, and so we spend effort on making

1364
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:48,660
 sure that these are nice spaces, good gathering spaces for the residents, it feels more boutique

1365
01:32:48,660 --> 01:32:52,560
 hotel than what most people would think of when you think of apartment complex, I think

1366
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:56,760
 there's sometimes a negative connotation with that word, but it's not what we're building

1367
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:00,440
 and not what we're in the business to do.

1368
01:33:00,440 --> 01:33:04,280
 Unit amenities, we've got some JPI standards that we adhere to, 10 foot ceiling, stainless

1369
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:08,040
 steel appliances, hard surface flooring, gonna go quickly through those, but you can see

1370
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:12,360
 it's a high quality, you know, granite countertops, things that you would see more in a new single

1371
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,720
 family home, and good quality materials there.

1372
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:18,600
 Here's the project that we've most recently completed, kind of what have you done for

1373
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:23,520
 me lately, this is down 35 and Haltem City, this is the clubhouse, you can see big expansive

1374
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:29,840
 space, vaulted ceilings, big open area, lots of glass there along the outside of the building,

1375
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:34,320
 again, another shot in the inside demonstration kitchen, we'll host resident events here,

1376
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:38,920
 we had master's watch parties at a lot of our communities this past weekend, and so

1377
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:43,320
 they're very intentionally designed spaces, there's another picture, cool arcade games

1378
01:33:43,320 --> 01:33:47,240
 and intentional big screen TVs, 30 seconds.

1379
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:51,320
 Fitness center is a big deal, we have a minimum of 2,000 square foot fitness centers in all

1380
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:55,800
 our communities, our residents use this as their primary fitness facility, so make sure

1381
01:33:55,800 --> 01:34:01,440
 we have, you know, top of line equipment there, 20 seconds, yoga room, this is units, two

1382
01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:07,040
 different schemes we'll always do, demographics we always get asked about, so for our average

1383
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:12,320
 income 115,000, average age 32, we expect about 30 kids, again, come back and ask if

1384
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:17,360
 you want to know more about that, and then one to quickly show is, if I can, rendering

1385
01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:18,360
 versus actual.

1386
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:19,680
 Yeah, go ahead and finish, it's fine.

1387
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:22,800
 Okay, we kind of get asked, and I'm happy to go through demographics and things if you

1388
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,440
 have questions on that, but we get asked a lot, kind of how do I know you're going to

1389
01:34:25,440 --> 01:34:31,920
 build what you are showing us tonight, and so hopefully the track record is evidence

1390
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:37,280
 of that as well as these last two slides where this is a project that was in Gravevine, the

1391
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:42,200
 top is a rendering that we showed during the zoning process for that community, and the

1392
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:47,560
 bottom is what was built and is now existing today, I'm biased, but I think the southern

1393
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:51,320
 picture looks better than the rendering itself, the architect that did the rendering is actually

1394
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:56,280
 here, funny enough, so not to knock on his rendering skills, but I think the actual building

1395
01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:02,160
 turned out better than the rendering, and then here's another one in Irving, that same

1396
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:06,080
 concept, the top is one we've shown in zoning during council, the bottom is what exists

1397
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:11,800
 today, identical, strikingly similar, even the grid patterns on that kind of rooftop

1398
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:16,360
 amenity there exists, and actually was this architect as well who's doing this project

1399
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:20,440
 here, so funnily enough, the examples were his design, but I've got a lot of team here

1400
01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:23,620
 to hopefully answer questions, and I know I went fast to try to stick to the clock,

1401
01:35:23,620 --> 01:35:26,160
 so I'm happy to answer more questions if you have.

1402
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:27,160
 Thank you.

1403
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:29,120
 We do have a question for you, Commissioner Smith.

1404
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:30,120
 Thank you, Chair.

1405
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:36,000
 How many horizontal multi-family properties has JPI worked on, I guess you had 51 apartment

1406
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:40,840
 complexes, is this your first, 10th horizontal multi-family project?

1407
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:46,360
 It's new for us, this is our fifth, so it's kind of a new product offering in the market

1408
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:55,160
 in general, so this would be the fifth, we've got one in Anna, McKinney, and Fort Worth,

1409
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:58,300
 this would be, yeah, it is a new one for us.

1410
01:35:58,300 --> 01:36:00,960
 Average rental rates, I know that's a hard thing to look at when you're talking about

1411
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:06,400
 a zoning conversation, so this PD and this guy have a site plan put into there, what

1412
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:09,320
 numbers, I didn't see those in there, I saw your average income, I saw your average age,

1413
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:10,960
 what are your rental rates you're looking at?

1414
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:17,440
 Yeah, so for the stacked flats, the three-story buildings, the average size is $885, and the

1415
01:36:17,440 --> 01:36:24,200
 average rent is $1,696, so just under $1,700 a month, and then for that SFR, the horizontal,

1416
01:36:24,200 --> 01:36:29,200
 I call it SFR, single-family rental, the average size there is $1,300, and the average rent

1417
01:36:29,200 --> 01:36:33,880
 will be about $2,350, and that's, we have market studies, it's not just pulling the

1418
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:36,080
 numbers in the market studies that kind of go into that.

1419
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:37,080
 That's true.

1420
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:38,080
 All right, thank you.

1421
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:39,080
 Yes, sir.

1422
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:40,080
 Anybody else?

1423
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:43,760
 I don't have any questions at this moment, but we may call you up later.

1424
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:44,760
 Thank you.

1425
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:51,640
 Angie, I've got a question for you before I get into calling the public hearing.

1426
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:52,640
 Just want an overview.

1427
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:59,880
 A lot was mentioned in discussion with the TIA and what staff required.

1428
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:04,320
 Can you run me through the process and how those decisions are made on staff of what

1429
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:06,200
 the scope of the TIA is?

1430
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:10,480
 I could, but I do have a better equipped individual.

1431
01:37:10,480 --> 01:37:11,480
 That will work.

1432
01:37:11,480 --> 01:37:13,840
 Who is Karina, so I'm going to have to pass it off.

1433
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:14,840
 That sounds good.

1434
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:15,840
 Thank you.

1435
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:16,840
 Hi, Karina.

1436
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:17,840
 Hi.

1437
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:18,840
 Good evening.

1438
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:25,160
 Karina Maldonado, Transportation Planner for the City of Denton.

1439
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:30,640
 So I can speak to our TIA process as of today.

1440
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:34,800
 It is mostly similar, slightly different than in the past.

1441
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:39,280
 We are trying to improve our processes and procedures in the City of Denton to be more

1442
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:41,160
 transparent, more accountable.

1443
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:47,220
 So for traffic impact analysis, there are a set of criteria within the transportation

1444
01:37:47,220 --> 01:37:51,960
 criteria manual that indicates when that TIA is triggered.

1445
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:57,680
 Once it's triggered, we do have a TIA scoping meeting that is intended to be held with the

1446
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:05,440
 city's traffic engineer and/or designee of the city engineer, which at this time is Development

1447
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:06,440
 Services.

1448
01:38:06,440 --> 01:38:12,440
 So that would be Transportation Planning and our consultant, HR Green, that does our off-site

1449
01:38:12,440 --> 01:38:13,560
 reviews.

1450
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:20,160
 So within that scoping meeting, staff looks at a certain radius of the site, dependent

1451
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:22,200
 on how many trips are generated.

1452
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:23,680
 So there's a sort of threshold.

1453
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,400
 There's an analysis category, if you will.

1454
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:32,280
 So based on the number of trips, the number of peak hour trips, it would determine the

1455
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:38,600
 radius of the boundary, so whether that's a half mile, mile and a half, two mile.

1456
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:43,880
 It can be increased by staff based on context of the area, so it's a staff determination

1457
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:48,460
 as to whether we need to make that two miles or less.

1458
01:38:48,460 --> 01:38:55,880
 That determination is based on environmental things like, I should say, site characteristics.

1459
01:38:55,880 --> 01:39:01,200
 So if staff is aware of safety issues, we can make adjustments, but for the most part,

1460
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:02,960
 everything is outlined in the criteria manual.

1461
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:07,320
 So we look at growth patterns, perimeter street improvements.

1462
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:13,160
 We ask for studies of intersections within the study boundaries, so signalized and unsignalized.

1463
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:19,320
 We ask them to analyze those that we believe are operating at a lower level of service,

1464
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:25,360
 or we know that there's significant traffic issues, resident concerns.

1465
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:31,040
 So there's an outline process in our transportation criteria manual that outlines everything that

1466
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:33,260
 should be within it.

1467
01:39:33,260 --> 01:39:37,360
 What we do in those scoping meetings is have that discussion with the traffic engineer

1468
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:42,280
 to ensure that the scope is well within the proportionality of the development.

1469
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:48,880
 So we're not asking for two or three intersections away from the site.

1470
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:52,360
 It has to be proportional to the site's traffic.

1471
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:57,440
 So it's sort of a negotiation process, but most of the information is already outlined

1472
01:39:57,440 --> 01:40:03,320
 in the transportation criteria manual, and those criteria manuals are adopted by council

1473
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:05,520
 and updated annually.

1474
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,160
 So it's a group discussion of how that's done.

1475
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:13,440
 So you started off the answer with, this is how it's done now.

1476
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:15,440
 Do you know how it was done with this development?

1477
01:40:15,440 --> 01:40:16,440
 Did it change?

1478
01:40:16,440 --> 01:40:19,000
 The process in the past was the same.

1479
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:23,240
 The only difference, I would say, is the documentation of the scope.

1480
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:27,080
 Most of it was a conversation, here's what we'd like to do.

1481
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:31,280
 There was no formalization of the documentation to say, here's the approved scope and let's

1482
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:33,280
 move forward.

1483
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:38,920
 So that is the process that SAF is implementing now, to formally document and stamp an approved

1484
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:43,960
 TIA scope before you go to a TIA application.

1485
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:44,960
 Thank you very much.

1486
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:48,160
 I appreciate the information.

1487
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:51,500
 We'll get started on some of these cards that are in front of me now.

1488
01:40:51,500 --> 01:40:55,560
 I will invite Brian Bentley.

1489
01:40:55,560 --> 01:41:03,400
 Hi, if you'll state your name and address, your time will begin.

1490
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:04,400
 Yes, hello.

1491
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:05,400
 Thank you.

1492
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:09,840
 I'm Brian Bentley, and I used to sit here on the PNZ when this property was originally

1493
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:16,880
 rezoned from agriculture to commercial, and I think you all need to know the history and

1494
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:21,760
 background of what was told to the PNZ at that time, and it's amazing how nervous you

1495
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:26,440
 can be on this side of the microphone and you're nice and calm over there, but anyway.

1496
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:32,920
 So this was probably about 10 years ago, I want to say, when it occurred, the family

1497
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:36,280
 that owned the property, it was agriculture.

1498
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:41,600
 It was an elderly woman and her children, adult children, came up and asked it to be

1499
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:47,160
 rezoned to commercial because they could not sell it under the ag zoning.

1500
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:56,920
 I believe it was an estate at that time, and we did rezone it, but we did it based on some

1501
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:03,680
 of the information that city staff gives us, and one of those things was PS Aurora, who

1502
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:10,640
 was traffic engineer, came before us and said, "Hartley Field Road will have to be closed.

1503
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:16,680
 We will close it at 455, we will move it north, it has to align with Long Avenue," I believe

1504
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:22,120
 that's Long up there by the school anyway, "and there will be a traffic light put in

1505
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:23,120
 there."

1506
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:29,360
 Well, obviously, this plan doesn't have anything about it.

1507
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:32,840
 I use Hartley Field Road a lot.

1508
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:38,240
 I can tell you personally, I have been scared sitting at that stop sign at Hartley Field.

1509
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:43,240
 You cannot see the traffic come up the hill.

1510
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:45,840
 Some of us out there, we're still agriculture.

1511
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:49,920
 We haul trailers, long trailers, cattle trailers.

1512
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:54,160
 It's scary trying to pull a trailer across there at that intersection.

1513
01:42:54,160 --> 01:43:02,320
 I do have problems with this idea of all these curb cuts and traffic and stuff, but let me

1514
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:07,760
 back up a little bit and present what happened during the PNZ.

1515
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:15,840
 The proposed purchaser, if I remember right, was a veterinarian who was a neighbor.

1516
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:22,760
 There's a veterinarian type complex on Hartley Field Road.

1517
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:30,720
 The city at that time was promoting this idea of small commercial places like pizzerias,

1518
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:36,440
 cleaners, dry cleaners and stuff, so you wouldn't have to travel so far to get those services.

1519
01:43:36,440 --> 01:43:41,520
 That was kind of what was proposed for that corner.

1520
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:46,280
 The traffic was supposed to come in off the new Hartley Field and come in the backside.

1521
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:50,840
 Now, you say that's too far away, it doesn't happen.

1522
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:52,560
 Well, look at Razor Ranch.

1523
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:57,720
 The traffic comes in on the backside on many of those big corners at Razor Ranch.

1524
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:07,320
 Let's see, I got my notes here.

1525
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:10,600
 It wasn't supposed to be that intensive a commercial.

1526
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:15,600
 Now, when we rezoned it, we rezoned it to the lowest classification of commercial that

1527
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:17,560
 we had at the time.

1528
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:22,960
 Then of course, the DDC has went through another rewrite and now you call it SC and say, "Oh,

1529
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:25,240
 we can put all these apartments in there."

1530
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:33,140
 No, that was not our intent and I can tell you it was not our intent because at the time,

1531
01:44:33,140 --> 01:44:34,440
 we were very concerned.

1532
01:44:34,440 --> 01:44:40,560
 The city asked for a ratio of apartments versus single families in the city of Denton and

1533
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:49,240
 they wanted to keep a balance, so apartments were never discussed at that rezoning.

1534
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,960
 I know economic times have changed and there's a lot of stuff.

1535
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,240
 Speaking of economics, I don't buy this.

1536
01:44:56,240 --> 01:45:01,280
 Everybody's making $100,000 and can pay $2,400 a month rent.

1537
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:02,280
 I'm a landlord.

1538
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:03,560
 I got over 20 units.

1539
01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:07,360
 I know what people make and what the average person does.

1540
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:12,560
 I would warn you about Woodhaven in Fort Worth when they built all the multifamily in one

1541
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:13,560
 cluster.

1542
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:19,280
 I know it sounds good because there's all the multifamily to the south side, but today

1543
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:25,720
 in the Wall Street Journal, 3200 apartments were repossessed from one property owner.

1544
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:27,680
 It happens.

1545
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:33,280
 Woodhaven in Fort Worth was so bad, the city had to come in and start tearing down apartments.

1546
01:45:33,280 --> 01:45:38,980
 When you get too many apartments in one area, when a bad landlord gets in there and stuff

1547
01:45:38,980 --> 01:45:43,920
 starts going south, it drags the rest of them down and that's what happened in Woodhaven.

1548
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,640
 I can talk to you in depth about that, but my time's up.

1549
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,480
 I appreciate you coming.

1550
01:45:49,480 --> 01:45:50,480
 Thanks.

1551
01:45:50,480 --> 01:45:59,600
 Just to clarify something that was stated, the current zoning on it is multi-family is

1552
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:03,240
 not allowed by right there, it's allowed with an SUP, or in this case, they're actually

1553
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:08,200
 requesting a zoning change to this PDMN.

1554
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:11,080
 Just wanted to clarify that statement.

1555
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:39,600
 Next card I have is Bridget Marshall.

1556
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,280
 Thank you for allowing me to speak again this evening.

1557
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:43,280
 Of course.

1558
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:49,120
 I want to reiterate how serious the traffic safety issues are in this area and why a new

1559
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:53,720
 traffic impact analysis is needed and the PD be denied.

1560
01:46:53,720 --> 01:47:21,960
 And Angie, you might just want to stand by just in case she needs further help.

1561
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:22,960
 Thank you.

1562
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:31,720
 So this is an aerial view with some of the traffic issues, both loop 288 and FM 428 Sherman

1563
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:37,400
 driver text dot roadways with FM 428 being expanded eventually to four to six lanes.

1564
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:39,600
 Ms. Marshall, can you speak into the microphone?

1565
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:40,600
 There we go.

1566
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:41,600
 Thank you.

1567
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:42,600
 Thank you.

1568
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:43,600
 Appreciate it.

1569
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:54,520
 So here you can see the crest of the hill and right there is a large Botania bush.

1570
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:59,560
 Driveways one and two do not comply with text dots, minimum access spacing of 360 feet for

1571
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:02,240
 a 45 mile per hour road.

1572
01:48:02,240 --> 01:48:07,920
 The traffic will impact Hartley Field Road, which is right here.

1573
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:14,000
 This is the main ingress egress for many residents who live in this area.

1574
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:19,280
 Signal analysis should be conducted for this area due to the amount of traffic being generated,

1575
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:26,080
 not just by this development, but the other three large developments that have been approved,

1576
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:34,720
 Stark Farms, Stewart Ridge and Agave Ranch.

1577
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:48,360
 Agave Ranch preliminary plat was approved on August 19th, 2020 and should have been included

1578
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:52,480
 in the TIA, even though the final plat was held up by engineering issues.

1579
01:48:52,480 --> 01:48:59,280
 The 2% growth factor in the TIA should account for background traffic only and not for another

1580
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:03,000
 large housing development like Agave Ranch.

1581
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:10,560
 And Agave Ranch is going to generate about 2,500 plus car trips per day.

1582
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:18,200
 And then up here is Long Road and as far as what was said in the supplement about the

1583
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:24,720
 games at CH Collins, those were done actually two years ago according to the assistant athletic

1584
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:28,120
 director that I spoke to the other day.

1585
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:32,760
 Last year they reverted back to allowing people to enter from any direction before or after

1586
01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:33,960
 the games.

1587
01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:39,880
 He forecasted only one to two big games where they might use controlled traffic pattern.

1588
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:48,400
 The admin assistant told me that there are on average 26 events per year.

1589
01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:53,120
 And as you can see there are no, and they ve pointed out that there are no crosswalks

1590
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:58,360
 or sidewalks except for the section in front of the water park.

1591
01:49:58,360 --> 01:50:07,800
 Okay, Angie, how do I get back to the next one?

1592
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:12,120
 Okay, you want me to toggle.

1593
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:18,640
 So this one is from the supplemental memorandum which you ve just seen earlier, but it s misleading

1594
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:21,440
 because the sight line is actually much shorter.

1595
01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:26,680
 Remember I showed you that Fotenia and the crest of the hill is right here, okay?

1596
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:28,600
 Right up here.

1597
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:35,160
 And you ll see that in the next photo from the supplemental memorandum.

1598
01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:43,000
 And driveway also down here, this driveway one is also situated farther north and shown

1599
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:52,480
 in the supplement according to the development plan if you were to look at that.

1600
01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:56,480
 So here is the other photo from the supplemental plan.

1601
01:50:56,480 --> 01:51:02,640
 And here s that Fotenia shrub, okay?

1602
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,120
 So this is the crest of the hill.

1603
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:07,720
 May I continue?

1604
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:12,760
 Yeah, go ahead, we ll give you a couple more minutes with all the technology interruptions.

1605
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:13,760
 All right.

1606
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:18,920
 So a field observation is insufficient for determining traffic impacts, especially for

1607
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:22,400
 a hill with two driveways accessing it.

1608
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:27,480
 A visual evaluation and photos do not provide empirical factual data.

1609
01:51:27,480 --> 01:51:32,520
 A detailed full sight distance engineering evaluation should be required showing all

1610
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:39,440
 values applicable formulas used and the results for each using text dots criteria.

1611
01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:44,040
 More importantly, an engineering vertical sight distance evaluation should also be done

1612
01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:52,320
 to see what restrictions the crest of the hill has on each case.

1613
01:51:52,320 --> 01:52:00,600
 And this just happens to show that corner and it s way up here in the corner, that driveway.

1614
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:02,400
 All right.

1615
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:09,560
 And so this is from our field observations and this is looking north from about where

1616
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:15,440
 the driveway one would be and you can see this car coming over the crest of the hill

1617
01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:24,400
 and this Fotenia shrub right behind it.

1618
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:32,780
 And now this is a view of at the Hartley Field Road intersection, what we see and the properties

1619
01:52:32,780 --> 01:52:43,840
 down here below the crest of the hill and to the left, okay?

1620
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:48,120
 Driveway one sits below this hill and it's out of sight.

1621
01:52:48,120 --> 01:52:55,240
 So a left turn at driveway one is going to create a very hazardous condition turning

1622
01:52:55,240 --> 01:53:02,040
 left into southbound, into this southbound FM 428 traffic, especially for inexperienced

1623
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:06,620
 high school drivers coming from La Grone Academy or CH Collins Stadium.

1624
01:53:06,620 --> 01:53:14,280
 This is going to be especially dangerous at night.

1625
01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:16,960
 Okay.

1626
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:23,560
 And this is a view of the crest of the hill and there's actually two crests in this area.

1627
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:26,720
 One's north and one's south of Hartley Field Road.

1628
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:33,800
 And this is the one, this is Long Road right here.

1629
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:37,820
 Okay.

1630
01:53:37,820 --> 01:53:44,040
 This came from the TIA Exhibit A and the access spacings and lane lengths for driveways one

1631
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:50,520
 and two on FM 428 will be to City of Denton standards, but driveway three will be to TXDOT

1632
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:51,520
 standards.

1633
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:57,040
 Both are TXDOT roads, therefore all three access spacings and lane lengths should be

1634
01:53:57,040 --> 01:54:01,080
 required to adhere to TXDOT standards, which are more stringent.

1635
01:54:01,080 --> 01:54:05,200
 I'm probably going to have to ask you to wrap it up there Ms. Marshall.

1636
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:06,200
 Okay.

1637
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:07,200
 I appreciate it.

1638
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:10,200
 Any questions from the commission?

1639
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:12,000
 May I continue?

1640
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:16,640
 No, I'm going to have to ask you to stop, we've given you a couple extra minutes, but

1641
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:19,600
 thank you for sharing your thoughts and your visuals.

1642
01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:21,280
 Can I summarize?

1643
01:54:21,280 --> 01:54:23,440
 You got like one final statement?

1644
01:54:23,440 --> 01:54:30,640
 Yeah, there are just many traffic safety issues and that I haven't even covered on here that

1645
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:32,400
 need to be taken into consideration.

1646
01:54:32,400 --> 01:54:37,120
 This is an extremely poor location for this type of development due to the proximity of

1647
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:43,080
 the hill and the intersection and two heavily trafficked roads, TXDOT roads.

1648
01:54:43,080 --> 01:54:44,080
 Okay.

1649
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:48,160
 So please deny this PD and require an updated TIA.

1650
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:50,160
 I appreciate it.

1651
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:54,920
 Thank you very much Ms. Marshall.

1652
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:55,920
 Appreciate it.

1653
01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:56,920
 Okay.

1654
01:54:56,920 --> 01:55:08,280
 The next person on the card I have here is Travis Eckmark.

1655
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:09,280
 Good evening.

1656
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:10,280
 You'll state your name and address.

1657
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:11,280
 Your time will begin.

1658
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:12,280
 Good evening.

1659
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:13,280
 My name is Travis Eckmark.

1660
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:14,280
 I live on 405056 Hartley Field Road.

1661
01:55:14,280 --> 01:55:17,280
 I am a member of the steering committee for the Small Area Plan.

1662
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:22,640
 I just want to kind of address a couple things that I saw with the presentation from these

1663
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:23,640
 gentlemen.

1664
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:30,400
 I first want to iterate again that the traffic is crazy there.

1665
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:35,040
 Getting in and out of that is a race and I and my wife have agreed to never cross over

1666
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:38,600
 from Hartley on 423 when we're taking our children.

1667
01:55:38,600 --> 01:55:42,320
 That's how bad that traffic is.

1668
01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:45,720
 I taught at Irving High School for seven years.

1669
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:48,800
 I've been to more football games than I care to count.

1670
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:55,840
 I agree that the football games start at seven but our most precious cargo, our children

1671
01:55:55,840 --> 01:56:00,440
 that play the games, that cheer the games, that do the band, they get there at five.

1672
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:03,000
 They don't get there at seven, they get there at five.

1673
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:09,800
 So taking that path that I won't take my kids with, we're asking our children to take that

1674
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:16,880
 path with more congestion right now at a point that I think is almost negligent and irresponsible

1675
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:17,880
 on our part.

1676
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:21,440
 There has to be something done to keep that from happening.

1677
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:23,440
 It's negligent.

1678
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:26,840
 I also want to talk about the bike paths.

1679
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:30,320
 I saw that we acknowledge that there are bikers here.

1680
01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:32,120
 We acknowledge that there should be paths.

1681
01:56:32,120 --> 01:56:33,120
 We have no plan.

1682
01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:37,780
 Again, I think it's negligent for us to go and say and approve this without generating

1683
01:56:37,780 --> 01:56:39,960
 a plan for that.

1684
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:43,600
 I'm not saying that a plan can't be conducted, I'm not saying that a plan can't be made.

1685
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:44,600
 We have no plan.

1686
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:49,160
 We're just, hey, we're going to make a plan at some point.

1687
01:56:49,160 --> 01:56:51,280
 That seems wrong to do that.

1688
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:55,920
 I don't see how that's feasible for us to approve.

1689
01:56:55,920 --> 01:57:00,360
 I lived in Frisco from 2012 to 2016.

1690
01:57:00,360 --> 01:57:03,720
 I was there for all of that.

1691
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:10,640
 The way this happens is we generate one section of development, then we generate one after

1692
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:11,640
 that.

1693
01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:15,440
 The seeding development does not account for the next one.

1694
01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:17,080
 It just doesn't.

1695
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:18,880
 How do we account for that?

1696
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:22,920
 What we do is we plan for the roads for the first one, and then the second one comes along.

1697
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:24,960
 The roads aren't big enough.

1698
01:57:24,960 --> 01:57:27,240
 We talked about Agatha, we talked about all this stuff.

1699
01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:29,720
 We all know the situation going on with Carter Ranch.

1700
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:36,280
 We all know that is coming up with proposed 1,000, 1,100, 1,200 new homes.

1701
01:57:36,280 --> 01:57:38,160
 Has anybody accounted for those homes?

1702
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:39,160
 No.

1703
01:57:39,160 --> 01:57:43,680
 I have not heard that mentioned once.

1704
01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:47,760
 That development is going to dwarf whatever we're talking about here.

1705
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:49,320
 Again, negligent.

1706
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:51,440
 I don't think that that is feasible.

1707
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:56,380
 I also want to talk a little bit about the small area plan that we're saying we regretfully

1708
01:57:56,380 --> 01:57:59,040
 have not been able to be participating in.

1709
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:04,880
 The people that I talked to, they don't know which of these sessions to latch onto.

1710
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:08,200
 When we talked about we reached out to the dentonites, we reached out to them, there's

1711
01:58:08,200 --> 01:58:13,120
 so many of these that nobody knows what to do, but what they do know, and what the turnout

1712
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:18,500
 at that workshop has proven, they do know that that small area plan is where they need

1713
01:58:18,500 --> 01:58:20,960
 to hear the voices heard.

1714
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:25,360
 You go look at those pictures from that, it's clear what dentonites want and do not want

1715
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:26,360
 from this area.

1716
01:58:26,360 --> 01:58:29,720
 I think not accounting for that is also negligent.

1717
01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:39,000
 I also want to talk a little bit about how we as denton view ourselves as a county, as

1718
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:40,200
 a city.

1719
01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:42,360
 What is our architecture?

1720
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:45,160
 What is our essence?

1721
01:58:45,160 --> 01:58:51,660
 The way this worked in Frisco is we let developers come and dictate that for us.

1722
01:58:51,660 --> 01:58:53,080
 We had no say.

1723
01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:54,700
 What does it mean to be denton?

1724
01:58:54,700 --> 01:58:58,920
 Is it a square apartment house that we think some architect that doesn't live here is going

1725
01:58:58,920 --> 01:59:00,280
 to dictate upon us?

1726
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:02,820
 That is inevitably how this works.

1727
01:59:02,820 --> 01:59:07,720
 We have no plan on this, but like I said, dentonites have put their weight behind the

1728
01:59:07,720 --> 01:59:12,760
 small area plan, and we believe that the city of Denton is going to listen to us when we

1729
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:14,400
 say these things.

1730
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:17,600
 We can talk about all these architectural plans, they look nice.

1731
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:20,700
 I do think that they look nice, but is that Denton?

1732
01:59:20,700 --> 01:59:25,520
 Is that what we as dentonites want that to be?

1733
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:26,520
 That's really all I have.

1734
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:27,520
 Thank you very much.

1735
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:32,000
 Thank you.

1736
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:42,040
 The next card I have is Nathan Toon.

1737
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:43,040
 Good evening.

1738
01:59:43,040 --> 01:59:46,880
 Angie, can I help you with that?

1739
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:59,180
 Or actually technology will turn it on I think in the back, right?

1740
01:59:59,180 --> 02:00:00,180
 Yeah they turned on technology.

1741
02:00:00,180 --> 02:00:01,180
 There it is.

1742
02:00:01,180 --> 02:00:02,180
 Thank you.

1743
02:00:02,180 --> 02:00:03,180
 You've done it.

1744
02:00:03,180 --> 02:00:04,180
 Perfect.

1745
02:00:04,180 --> 02:00:12,640
 Nathan Toon, 3201 Carmel Street, Denton, Texas.

1746
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:17,560
 My name first went on a for sale sign on this property in 2016.

1747
02:00:17,560 --> 02:00:22,400
 I've worked with the property owner for seven years on this property.

1748
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:27,800
 The gentleman who previously spoke about a woman and her adult children, although he

1749
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:33,160
 does have a wife and adult children, I can promise you he wasn't sending them to rezone

1750
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:37,880
 his property or do anything on his behalf because that's just not his style.

1751
02:00:37,880 --> 02:00:44,120
 So I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to, but I wanted to tell just a brief story.

1752
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:48,360
 This is about the first three or four years that I worked on this property.

1753
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:49,960
 This area was really green.

1754
02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:52,040
 There wasn't much growth going on.

1755
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:58,240
 So we were being patient and about that time, about five years ago, I cold called Mr. Standridge

1756
02:00:58,240 --> 02:00:59,720
 right here, Stacy Standridge.

1757
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:04,720
 He's one of the most reputable experienced land developers and DFW has been doing it

1758
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:05,720
 for a long time.

1759
02:01:05,720 --> 02:01:10,640
 I went down and met with him and it was a very brief meeting.

1760
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:14,480
 He asked me if that was a limited access highway and I said yes.

1761
02:01:14,480 --> 02:01:18,680
 He said, "Well, you need to learn the difference between an off ramp and a frontage road because

1762
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:24,720
 there won't be commercial development on this site if there's no access off of Loop 288."

1763
02:01:24,720 --> 02:01:32,280
 So myself and Mr. Riley, the owner, we got together and we developed this early iteration

1764
02:01:32,280 --> 02:01:38,920
 here of what would be a frontage road where we were proposing to add turn lanes, right

1765
02:01:38,920 --> 02:01:44,080
 turn lanes, so that we could have a driveway onto the property so that we could get commercial

1766
02:01:44,080 --> 02:01:46,420
 development.

1767
02:01:46,420 --> 02:01:47,420
 We met with the city.

1768
02:01:47,420 --> 02:01:54,220
 We met with TextDOT and it took us two years of meetings with everybody you could imagine.

1769
02:01:54,220 --> 02:02:00,240
 We didn't have necessarily a development plan and we were asking just for a letter or an

1770
02:02:00,240 --> 02:02:08,080
 email saying from the city and TextDOT that conceptually this idea was okay because at

1771
02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:13,940
 that time there was no development anywhere along Loop 288, specifically commercial.

1772
02:02:13,940 --> 02:02:19,920
 So this was kind of a new idea and after two years we finally did get this email right

1773
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:20,920
 here.

1774
02:02:20,920 --> 02:02:32,960
 This would have been in October 2020, basically they tried to, I'm not accusing anybody of

1775
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:38,320
 anything but I'm just saying it was very hard for us to get this email which basically said

1776
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:43,680
 the city had no problem with it but TextDOT would ultimately need to decide if we could

1777
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:47,760
 accommodate a driveway on Loop 288.

1778
02:02:47,760 --> 02:02:52,560
 And then after we finally got that I called Mr. Standards back after this article came

1779
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:59,760
 out after a study that was done by the city of Denton back in 2001 that said Denton needs

1780
02:02:59,760 --> 02:03:04,760
 9,500 housing units in five years.

1781
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:11,600
 This article spread all over the internet I presume because not long after that we started

1782
02:03:11,600 --> 02:03:18,440
 getting calls from multi-family developers from all over the country and since this study

1783
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:27,260
 was done and this article was posted I'm not exaggerating, I've probably gotten 150 calls

1784
02:03:27,260 --> 02:03:33,220
 from developers all over the country, a lot of DFW developers and I didn't print the whole

1785
02:03:33,220 --> 02:03:43,720
 article but it talks about the need for 4,100 to 4,400 rental housing units, multi-family

1786
02:03:43,720 --> 02:03:50,520
 units, it talks about affordable housing, it talks about the need for duplexes, triplexes

1787
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:57,920
 and the like and in the two years that we've been working with the city on this project

1788
02:03:57,920 --> 02:04:04,040
 I've probably gotten another 100 phone calls so I think, you know, what this basically

1789
02:04:04,040 --> 02:04:10,180
 says is that by our own admission there's a need for more housing units like this.

1790
02:04:10,180 --> 02:04:15,240
 If you look at the landscape of Denton there's not much undevelopable land so you're seeing

1791
02:04:15,240 --> 02:04:23,160
 a lot of these projects taking place along the Loop 288 corridor and I think it's appropriate

1792
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:31,300
 from that regard I understand the traffic concern, you know, I think it would be hard

1793
02:04:31,300 --> 02:04:38,520
 for a signal to be put in at Hartley Field and one at the C.H. Collins and/or the neighborhood

1794
02:04:38,520 --> 02:04:49,140
 behind it and so from that regard I also find it hard to believe that apartment residents

1795
02:04:49,140 --> 02:04:55,660
 or residents of this community or development when they leave here or come here I would

1796
02:04:55,660 --> 02:04:59,680
 say a vast majority of them are not headed north, they're headed south, they're headed

1797
02:04:59,680 --> 02:05:05,360
 to Loop 288, meanwhile certainly there will be some increase in traffic, I don't know

1798
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:15,600
 that it's going to be that much to create such a safety hazard for everybody out there,

1799
02:05:15,600 --> 02:05:20,840
 you know, I do have a question about Hartley Field Road, is that a city street?

1800
02:05:20,840 --> 02:05:27,840
 Because I know if you look at the ETJ, the city of Denton ETJ map a lot of the land behind

1801
02:05:27,840 --> 02:05:35,080
 this parcel and out on Hartley Field is not in the city limits and so the feasibility

1802
02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:44,520
 of trying to put the honus or the blame for traffic or congestion on the corner property

1803
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:50,960
 on a tech stock road that's, you know, got county roads behind it and land that's not

1804
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:57,760
 in the city, I don't know that that should be held against them and so I know my time

1805
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:01,720
 is up, I had more I'd like to say but I'll leave it at that.

1806
02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:08,040
 I think after seven years and several hundred discussions with developers from all over

1807
02:06:08,040 --> 02:06:15,560
 the country and the landowner, I think this is the best project that I've talked to or

1808
02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:21,860
 discussed with potential buyers and developers and that's why we're all here tonight and

1809
02:06:21,860 --> 02:06:29,000
 JPI, Stacey Standridge, they're engineers, they're first class in every regard and so

1810
02:06:29,000 --> 02:06:34,640
 that's why I support this project and I would ask that you do the same, thank you.

1811
02:06:34,640 --> 02:06:39,120
 Thank you, Mr. Tune, I appreciate it.

1812
02:06:39,120 --> 02:06:45,200
 Next card I have is Greg Johnson.

1813
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:46,200
 Good evening.

1814
02:06:46,200 --> 02:06:47,200
 Good evening, Commissioners.

1815
02:06:47,200 --> 02:06:48,200
 Greg Johnson, 3190 Teasley.

1816
02:06:48,200 --> 02:06:53,480
 I don't really have a dog in this fight but as I was looking at the agenda because I'm

1817
02:06:53,480 --> 02:06:58,480
 up later, a couple things struck me and I kind of dug into this one a little bit.

1818
02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:06,280
 So my only comment really here is this is a hard corner of what's essentially an interstate,

1819
02:07:06,280 --> 02:07:16,080
 right, I mean loop 288, large divided state highway and at the corner of a state highway,

1820
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:17,720
 right, text dot road.

1821
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:23,240
 So when you look at this corner, when I look at corners, I'm in the business, I look at

1822
02:07:23,240 --> 02:07:25,380
 what else goes on these corners.

1823
02:07:25,380 --> 02:07:33,440
 So I look just south of it, we have a very similar development that's working well.

1824
02:07:33,440 --> 02:07:40,720
 When we look south and west of it, caddy corner to it, very similar development that's been

1825
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:46,240
 approved and so when I look at land like this, I say well what's going to go there?

1826
02:07:46,240 --> 02:07:53,360
 Nobody's ever going to build a house there, right, I mean it's a hard corner of a state

1827
02:07:53,360 --> 02:07:55,560
 highway and a state highway.

1828
02:07:55,560 --> 02:08:02,060
 So then when I put my city hat on and I think about putting our land to use to generate

1829
02:08:02,060 --> 02:08:06,400
 quality revenue for the city, something jumped out at me in the back up like I think it was

1830
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:10,280
 something like five and a half million dollars worth of revenue that this thing creates.

1831
02:08:10,280 --> 02:08:16,240
 So I don't know where that was, there was a ton of back up but my point in this is just

1832
02:08:16,240 --> 02:08:22,720
 there's been a lot of talk about the small area plan, 7,000, 6,800 acres isn't a small

1833
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:31,080
 area one, but two, as a city we no longer have the right to annex ETJ property.

1834
02:08:31,080 --> 02:08:34,640
 So one way you can ever annex that is the property owner agrees.

1835
02:08:34,640 --> 02:08:39,640
 So the way we used to think about ETJ is well when we take that in, it will be part of the

1836
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:43,160
 city and therefore blah, blah, blah.

1837
02:08:43,160 --> 02:08:47,920
 Well if this property is sitting on that corner, everything around it is ETJ, so that's county

1838
02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:54,680
 land and really today in my mind because we don't have the right to annex ETJ property

1839
02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:59,080
 anymore, I really think we should start referring that as county property because we don't have

1840
02:08:59,080 --> 02:09:02,400
 the right to go take it or get it.

1841
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:10,380
 So if you look back at the map, that property sitting on the hard corner is really an island

1842
02:09:10,380 --> 02:09:14,660
 of its own because everything around it with the exception of the very small strip that's

1843
02:09:14,660 --> 02:09:20,300
 its own like R4 or something is county land.

1844
02:09:20,300 --> 02:09:27,200
 So to me this corner of a highway and a highway really isn't in my mind part of a small area

1845
02:09:27,200 --> 02:09:28,200
 plan.

1846
02:09:28,200 --> 02:09:33,120
 I totally get where the residents who live up there north of it are coming from because

1847
02:09:33,120 --> 02:09:38,080
 428 should have been expanded just like all of our roads, right?

1848
02:09:38,080 --> 02:09:41,640
 We should have expanded and anticipated the growth, but it always comes down to text out

1849
02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:46,200
 budgets and none of us can control text out of what they do.

1850
02:09:46,200 --> 02:09:52,040
 But when I look at this development, commercial on the corner, the horizontal multifamily,

1851
02:09:52,040 --> 02:09:57,240
 the multifamily, there may be somebody who lives there that works in Aubrey that's going

1852
02:09:57,240 --> 02:10:01,960
 to go north, but for the most part those kind of projects, those kind of developments, those

1853
02:10:01,960 --> 02:10:04,320
 people are working in the city.

1854
02:10:04,320 --> 02:10:10,040
 So I look at that land, it's ag exempt, it's producing nothing for the city and I don't

1855
02:10:10,040 --> 02:10:14,000
 see it really as a part of the small area.

1856
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:20,160
 I see it as a hard corner on two very major roads and ultimately 428 is going to have

1857
02:10:20,160 --> 02:10:25,480
 to get expanded, but I don't know that the property owner here should be penalized because

1858
02:10:25,480 --> 02:10:29,780
 428 didn't get expanded in advance of all that growth that's already happening out there.

1859
02:10:29,780 --> 02:10:35,720
 So my two cents don't have anything to do with it, but as I looked at it I felt like

1860
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:38,800
 I should get up and speak my piece, so I did.

1861
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:39,800
 Thank you.

1862
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:40,800
 I appreciate your sharing your knowledge.

1863
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:41,800
 I appreciate it.

1864
02:10:41,800 --> 02:10:47,520
 I have some other cards here not wishing to speak, but if you change your mind let me

1865
02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:48,680
 know.

1866
02:10:48,680 --> 02:10:56,200
 Susan Smith has filled out a card in opposition.

1867
02:10:56,200 --> 02:11:03,920
 Tony Riley is in support, not wishing to speak.

1868
02:11:03,920 --> 02:11:10,200
 Mary Aren't in opposition.

1869
02:11:10,200 --> 02:11:15,040
 Steven Aren't in opposition.

1870
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:19,520
 Those are all the cards I have in front of me, but this is a public hearing.

1871
02:11:19,520 --> 02:11:25,520
 If there is anyone else wishing to speak on this item, please come on down to the podium.

1872
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:31,240
 Come on down, sure.

1873
02:11:31,240 --> 02:11:37,840
 Come on down to the podium so we can hear you.

1874
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:39,800
 Hi.

1875
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:46,640
 Hi, I'm Dana McMillan.

1876
02:11:46,640 --> 02:11:47,640
 I am in opposition.

1877
02:11:47,640 --> 02:11:56,080
 I live at 312 Deerfield Drive, which is Kings Row and The Loop.

1878
02:11:56,080 --> 02:11:59,880
 That is the main entrance to our neighborhood.

1879
02:11:59,880 --> 02:12:03,600
 We also exit through Hartley Field.

1880
02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:06,800
 Many times we were unable to get out of our neighborhood.

1881
02:12:06,800 --> 02:12:12,920
 They've just added, I think, over 300 new mobile homes.

1882
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:14,320
 It's not in the county.

1883
02:12:14,320 --> 02:12:18,020
 It's just on the other side, but it doesn't matter.

1884
02:12:18,020 --> 02:12:24,600
 Their main entrance is also at Kings Row, which is why we do have to go back through

1885
02:12:24,600 --> 02:12:27,440
 the neighborhood and exit at Hartley Field.

1886
02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:35,200
 Also, that is zoned for the elementary school that I have taught at for 22 years.

1887
02:12:35,200 --> 02:12:44,720
 Hodge Elementary is the name, and it is the highest need school in Denton.

1888
02:12:44,720 --> 02:12:46,200
 That beats all the high schools.

1889
02:12:46,200 --> 02:12:52,120
 It beats all the elementary schools, and that is because we have all of the trailer parks

1890
02:12:52,120 --> 02:12:57,840
 all the way down, these people are mobile, they pass several schools to come to us.

1891
02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:02,480
 We have apartment complexes, and they're saying there's going to be 30 kids.

1892
02:13:02,480 --> 02:13:06,840
 I highly doubt with that size, there's only going to be 30 kids.

1893
02:13:06,840 --> 02:13:15,720
 Our school is at 700, where I think the highest elementary school as it is.

1894
02:13:15,720 --> 02:13:21,720
 We do definitely have kids that live on Hartley Field Road that come to our school.

1895
02:13:21,720 --> 02:13:28,200
 Our population is in mobile homes and apartment complexes.

1896
02:13:28,200 --> 02:13:31,740
 It turns over, it turns over, it turns over.

1897
02:13:31,740 --> 02:13:37,200
 We're losing teachers left and right because of the constant ... We don't have a steady

1898
02:13:37,200 --> 02:13:39,360
 student body.

1899
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:41,840
 We have mobile children.

1900
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:47,520
 We teach mobile children, and it's not that we don't love it, but we are a high needs

1901
02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:53,860
 campus, and sure they can change zoning at any time, will they?

1902
02:13:53,860 --> 02:13:55,400
 They haven't yet.

1903
02:13:55,400 --> 02:13:56,560
 They go all the way out.

1904
02:13:56,560 --> 02:13:58,840
 We are a bilingual school.

1905
02:13:58,840 --> 02:14:09,280
 We have 70% Hispanic, and over 50% of our classes are Spanish classes.

1906
02:14:09,280 --> 02:14:16,680
 They also bring kids from all up and down 380 to our school, and up and down we have

1907
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:20,120
 our students that live in Aubrey.

1908
02:14:20,120 --> 02:14:28,320
 They live in Green Valley, and they live in the part across from Elm Bottom, I believe,

1909
02:14:28,320 --> 02:14:30,960
 but they come to our school as well.

1910
02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:42,160
 It is a very highly trafficked area, and on football games, I live down by Kings Row,

1911
02:14:42,160 --> 02:14:49,200
 and then there's Sherman where you go off to the water park, that's the next intersection.

1912
02:14:49,200 --> 02:14:55,880
 We have trouble getting out and in our neighborhood on game nights.

1913
02:14:55,880 --> 02:15:03,000
 They have several schools that utilize that stadium, so that whatever, 10 to 15, that's

1914
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:06,240
 not even ... They have games on Thursday.

1915
02:15:06,240 --> 02:15:13,720
 They have things on Saturday, so that's not really a good estimate.

1916
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:22,400
 I'm concerned that we do a lot of building of apartments along the loop, and there have

1917
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:29,880
 been 10 complexes in between 380 and the new high school, which is right on 35 basically

1918
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:37,880
 in that area, and it's all down in there, and the traffic has gotten crazy, and this

1919
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:44,160
 is just in the last couple of years, and now we're going to put another complex there where

1920
02:15:44,160 --> 02:15:54,920
 just over the overpass of 380, they were putting giant complexes there, so that's all going

1921
02:15:54,920 --> 02:16:00,080
 to count on that traffic, and they're not taking any of those new developments into

1922
02:16:00,080 --> 02:16:01,080
 consideration.

1923
02:16:01,080 --> 02:16:09,760
 The ones that are in the process of being built already, and what they want to add.

1924
02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:21,080
 I think that traffic is being minimized, and I don't think that we need another 380 right

1925
02:16:21,080 --> 02:16:22,080
 through to.

1926
02:16:22,080 --> 02:16:23,080
 Thank you.

1927
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:40,960
 Another card I have in opposition is Cindy Gilbert, and I have Katie McGuire in opposition.

1928
02:16:40,960 --> 02:16:48,240
 Again, those are all the cards I have, although I think I see one coming down now.

1929
02:16:48,240 --> 02:16:52,400
 This is a public hearing, whether you filled out a card or not, you are welcome to speak

1930
02:16:52,400 --> 02:17:05,120
 if you have not done so already.

1931
02:17:05,120 --> 02:17:11,880
 I've got a card from Marni Sadri in opposition.

1932
02:17:11,880 --> 02:17:12,880
 Good evening, sir.

1933
02:17:12,880 --> 02:17:13,880
 Good evening.

1934
02:17:13,880 --> 02:17:14,880
 I am Dr. Stephen Arndt.

1935
02:17:14,880 --> 02:17:23,240
 I did not anticipate speaking, so this is not prepared, it's just off the top of my balding

1936
02:17:23,240 --> 02:17:24,240
 head.

1937
02:17:24,240 --> 02:17:27,080
 I live at 3375 Hartley Field Road.

1938
02:17:27,080 --> 02:17:33,600
 My wife and I like to take walks down what used to be our nice country lane.

1939
02:17:33,600 --> 02:17:39,240
 One Saturday recently on our short one mile out and one mile back walk, we were passed

1940
02:17:39,240 --> 02:17:42,120
 by 40 cars.

1941
02:17:42,120 --> 02:17:48,160
 This is a very windy road, they drive at 30, 40, 50 miles an hour on it.

1942
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:51,640
 It is extremely dangerous.

1943
02:17:51,640 --> 02:17:57,320
 Going out from Hartley Field and turning left onto Sherman Drive is extremely dangerous.

1944
02:17:57,320 --> 02:18:02,420
 Our next door neighbor got hit once doing it, trying to turn left.

1945
02:18:02,420 --> 02:18:10,200
 As soon as you turn again on the loop 288 towards I-35, the one thing you can be absolutely

1946
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:12,940
 sure of is a traffic jam.

1947
02:18:12,940 --> 02:18:21,240
 The plan for loop 288 seems to be build on every single square inch that is available,

1948
02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:25,440
 leave nothing unbuilt on.

1949
02:18:25,440 --> 02:18:29,160
 I think Travis hit the nail on the head.

1950
02:18:29,160 --> 02:18:35,080
 We have to ask ourselves, what do we want for ourselves as dentonites?

1951
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:39,140
 Do we really want to be another Frisco?

1952
02:18:39,140 --> 02:18:40,880
 And why stop at Frisco?

1953
02:18:40,880 --> 02:18:45,800
 We could be like Dallas or Houston or Austin, but why stop there?

1954
02:18:45,800 --> 02:18:51,720
 We could be as big as Chicago or New York City or Tokyo or Mexico City.

1955
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:56,080
 My question is, where does it stop?

1956
02:18:56,080 --> 02:18:59,320
 When is it big enough?

1957
02:18:59,320 --> 02:19:06,120
 What kind of place do we really want to live in?

1958
02:19:06,120 --> 02:19:12,140
 And our children, thank you.

1959
02:19:12,140 --> 02:19:15,840
 Someone said we need X number of living units.

1960
02:19:15,840 --> 02:19:21,560
 You may remember the movie with Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams, with the slogan, build it

1961
02:19:21,560 --> 02:19:23,620
 and they will come.

1962
02:19:23,620 --> 02:19:30,880
 The converse is also true, stop building and they will stop coming.

1963
02:19:30,880 --> 02:19:35,120
 We have enough apartment complexes.

1964
02:19:35,120 --> 02:19:39,800
 And what I understand, we can't even fill the ones that have already been built.

1965
02:19:39,800 --> 02:19:45,080
 And we're building them on every single corner.

1966
02:19:45,080 --> 02:19:49,660
 In the last two or three years, we've had, I don't know how many new neighborhoods spring

1967
02:19:49,660 --> 02:19:50,660
 up around us.

1968
02:19:50,660 --> 02:19:54,040
 I can't count the number of apartment buildings.

1969
02:19:54,040 --> 02:19:58,320
 This is not the kind of town I want to live in.

1970
02:19:58,320 --> 02:20:03,880
 When I moved here 30 years ago, this was a pleasant place to live.

1971
02:20:03,880 --> 02:20:10,820
 It has become miserable to get in a car and drive from A to B. You have to fight traffic

1972
02:20:10,820 --> 02:20:11,820
 all the way.

1973
02:20:11,820 --> 02:20:15,480
 And once you get there, you probably cannot park.

1974
02:20:15,480 --> 02:20:20,120
 Development, we're talking about what kind of development we want.

1975
02:20:20,120 --> 02:20:24,480
 We should be asking, do we want any development at all?

1976
02:20:24,480 --> 02:20:30,240
 And my answer to that is no, bigger is not better.

1977
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:31,240
 Thank you.

1978
02:20:31,240 --> 02:20:34,760
 Thank you, Mr. Earnt.

1979
02:20:34,760 --> 02:20:41,980
 I don't have any other cards in front of me, but if you would like to speak, come on down.

1980
02:20:41,980 --> 02:20:43,560
 Just state your name and address and your time will begin.

1981
02:20:43,560 --> 02:20:44,560
 Katie McGuire.

1982
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:48,960
 I am 3574 Pine Trail and I was opposed to one of the cards.

1983
02:20:48,960 --> 02:20:53,840
 Me and my husband and our brand new newborn son just moved over off of Hartley Field because

1984
02:20:53,840 --> 02:20:56,360
 we did love the area, the environment.

1985
02:20:56,360 --> 02:20:59,360
 I've grown up in the Idiots Hill neighborhood my entire life.

1986
02:20:59,360 --> 02:21:02,440
 I'm 35, so Denton has been my home my whole life.

1987
02:21:02,440 --> 02:21:03,440
 I love Denton.

1988
02:21:03,440 --> 02:21:04,440
 I love it very much.

1989
02:21:04,440 --> 02:21:09,480
 But we moved out there and immediately I noticed because I do drive to Borman Elementary, so

1990
02:21:09,480 --> 02:21:12,880
 I have to go into Denton and across I teach kindergarten.

1991
02:21:12,880 --> 02:21:19,440
 And I have to get up much earlier to sit on that corner to turn left because as they said,

1992
02:21:19,440 --> 02:21:20,760
 I can't always see.

1993
02:21:20,760 --> 02:21:23,920
 I feel very uncomfortable with the people who are coming over.

1994
02:21:23,920 --> 02:21:28,000
 And so I need to leave at least 30 minutes early to make sure that on that corner I can

1995
02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:32,440
 turn because there are times that I would be late at the beginning of the year because

1996
02:21:32,440 --> 02:21:37,680
 I wasn't prepared for this knowing how many and that's at 637 in the morning knowing how

1997
02:21:37,680 --> 02:21:39,240
 many cars are coming.

1998
02:21:39,240 --> 02:21:43,380
 Also I just wanted to say I'm really glad that the landowner is happy, but all of the

1999
02:21:43,380 --> 02:21:45,640
 people around are not with the sale.

2000
02:21:45,640 --> 02:21:46,640
 We're very upset.

2001
02:21:46,640 --> 02:21:49,460
 I've only been there since August.

2002
02:21:49,460 --> 02:21:51,720
 Imagine the people who've been living there their whole lives.

2003
02:21:51,720 --> 02:21:52,840
 They're very upset.

2004
02:21:52,840 --> 02:21:57,560
 I've become this passionate because I want my son to be able to appreciate and be able

2005
02:21:57,560 --> 02:21:59,360
 to feel comfortable driving.

2006
02:21:59,360 --> 02:22:00,360
 We're right there.

2007
02:22:00,360 --> 02:22:03,600
 I mean, he's two months old right now, but I can't imagine what it's going to be like

2008
02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:04,660
 when he's driving.

2009
02:22:04,660 --> 02:22:09,540
 So please think of the people who are up here who came to a meeting who are away from their

2010
02:22:09,540 --> 02:22:12,880
 newborn child because we feel so passionate about this.

2011
02:22:12,880 --> 02:22:14,640
 So do not do this.

2012
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:16,200
 It's not where it needs to be.

2013
02:22:16,200 --> 02:22:20,680
 There's already an apartment complex, there's tons and they haven't even filled.

2014
02:22:20,680 --> 02:22:23,280
 There's now leasing, haven't even finished.

2015
02:22:23,280 --> 02:22:25,140
 We don't need to build another one.

2016
02:22:25,140 --> 02:22:26,140
 Thank you.

2017
02:22:26,140 --> 02:22:27,640
 Hi.

2018
02:22:27,640 --> 02:22:42,320
 Hi, my name is Isabelle Spinelli.

2019
02:22:42,320 --> 02:22:47,480
 I live at 5408 Pagewood Drive, which is in the Stark Farms area.

2020
02:22:47,480 --> 02:22:52,120
 Something I hear a lot of tonight is a lot of what happens at the athletic complex, right?

2021
02:22:52,120 --> 02:22:56,440
 The football games, I'm not hearing a lot about the band competitions.

2022
02:22:56,440 --> 02:22:59,040
 Not hearing a lot about the various other events there.

2023
02:22:59,040 --> 02:23:03,760
 Also you have a massive natatorium there that hosts multiple clubs for swimming, for water

2024
02:23:03,760 --> 02:23:07,380
 polo, for various sports around the area.

2025
02:23:07,380 --> 02:23:11,960
 Any given Saturday that you guys go out there, water polo, swim, those fill up that parking

2026
02:23:11,960 --> 02:23:16,240
 lot and those also fill out a lot of traffic in that area.

2027
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:19,600
 It's very difficult to get out of the neighborhood, very difficult to get down that hill.

2028
02:23:19,600 --> 02:23:21,800
 I don't hear that being talked about a lot.

2029
02:23:21,800 --> 02:23:26,480
 There's more than just the football games, there's more than just all of those events.

2030
02:23:26,480 --> 02:23:28,240
 It's dangerous as it is.

2031
02:23:28,240 --> 02:23:33,380
 I think adding a giant apartment complex, multi-family, whatever you want to call it, is a dangerous

2032
02:23:33,380 --> 02:23:36,200
 thing to do without taking proper traffic considerations in.

2033
02:23:36,200 --> 02:23:38,320
 That's all I wanted to say.

2034
02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:42,080
 Thank you for speaking, appreciate it.

2035
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:43,080
 This is a public hearing.

2036
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:44,320
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

2037
02:23:44,320 --> 02:23:52,800
 Yep, come on down.

2038
02:23:52,800 --> 02:23:53,800
 Good evening.

2039
02:23:53,800 --> 02:23:54,800
 My name is Marni Sadri.

2040
02:23:54,800 --> 02:23:58,200
 I wasn't planning on speaking tonight, but I hadn't heard anyone ... Oh, sorry.

2041
02:23:58,200 --> 02:24:00,800
 I live at 3105 Deerfield Drive.

2042
02:24:00,800 --> 02:24:06,440
 I've been a resident on this street for 17 years.

2043
02:24:06,440 --> 02:24:12,380
 My husband has lived in the area 28 years.

2044
02:24:12,380 --> 02:24:15,600
 He's a university professor.

2045
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:23,580
 I haven't heard much mention of the 2040 small area plan, which I think is very near and

2046
02:24:23,580 --> 02:24:24,820
 dear to our hearts.

2047
02:24:24,820 --> 02:24:29,040
 We have a small footprint where we are right now.

2048
02:24:29,040 --> 02:24:34,400
 I think it's the only small footprint left in Denton.

2049
02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:40,640
 The one thing that really concerns me is where we are in this northeast Denton corner is

2050
02:24:40,640 --> 02:24:45,480
 where everyone goes to relax.

2051
02:24:45,480 --> 02:24:48,240
 When I see the apartments going in, I'm fine with that.

2052
02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:50,200
 I really thought the plans were lovely.

2053
02:24:50,200 --> 02:24:58,160
 I just don't think another one on northeast Denton is the place to put another apartment.

2054
02:24:58,160 --> 02:25:04,960
 The small area plan and our vision for 2040, I'm wondering why can't we put in something

2055
02:25:04,960 --> 02:25:14,440
 else the light commercial, make it light commercial use for the residents to enjoy that maybe

2056
02:25:14,440 --> 02:25:17,560
 goes along with the theme of what's already there?

2057
02:25:17,560 --> 02:25:22,760
 Why can't we just expand on the theme of nature and bee city?

2058
02:25:22,760 --> 02:25:30,200
 I'm talking honeybee city, monarch city, we're right on the edge of the central flyway, migratory

2059
02:25:30,200 --> 02:25:32,240
 central flyway.

2060
02:25:32,240 --> 02:25:36,840
 Why not capitalize on that if we want to talk about making money?

2061
02:25:36,840 --> 02:25:42,920
 I mean, we're right here and I just think we should keep the footprint small.

2062
02:25:42,920 --> 02:25:43,920
 That's all I have to say.

2063
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:44,920
 Thank you.

2064
02:25:44,920 --> 02:25:45,920
 Sure.

2065
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:46,920
 Come on down.

2066
02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:47,920
 Good evening.

2067
02:25:47,920 --> 02:26:04,040
 My name is Brett Stewart and I live at 5012 Golden Circle which is off of Hartley Field

2068
02:26:04,040 --> 02:26:05,040
 Road.

2069
02:26:05,040 --> 02:26:10,240
 I moved to this area about a little over two and a half years ago, I guess, after living

2070
02:26:10,240 --> 02:26:12,800
 in Flower Mound for 21 years.

2071
02:26:12,800 --> 02:26:19,760
 One of the reasons we moved, we graduated from UNT, my wife and I, in '89 and lived

2072
02:26:19,760 --> 02:26:25,040
 here until about '94 and the reason we came back to Denton is to get away from all the

2073
02:26:25,040 --> 02:26:30,240
 congestion and so forth we had in Flower Mound and so I'm seeing the same type of pattern

2074
02:26:30,240 --> 02:26:33,640
 here as we go across, as we're building up here.

2075
02:26:33,640 --> 02:26:38,920
 I can't reiterate any more than what we've already talked about tonight and if I could

2076
02:26:38,920 --> 02:26:44,080
 give my time to Bridget, I would, but I know I can't, but anyway, I'm in opposition.

2077
02:26:44,080 --> 02:26:45,080
 Thank you.

2078
02:26:45,080 --> 02:26:48,480
 Thank you for speaking.

2079
02:26:48,480 --> 02:26:49,480
 This is a public hearing.

2080
02:26:49,480 --> 02:26:53,960
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not done so already?

2081
02:26:53,960 --> 02:26:54,960
 Sure.

2082
02:26:54,960 --> 02:26:55,960
 Hi.

2083
02:26:55,960 --> 02:26:56,960
 Good evening.

2084
02:26:56,960 --> 02:27:10,240
 My name is Stacey Standridge, Standridge Companies, 15640 Quorum Drive, Addison, Texas.

2085
02:27:10,240 --> 02:27:16,560
 So the reason that my company is interested in this property is because of its location

2086
02:27:16,560 --> 02:27:24,040
 and as previously said, it's at two main roads and a major intersection and the zoning

2087
02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:29,600
 allows for commercial development and that's what my company specializes in and we've developed

2088
02:27:29,600 --> 02:27:36,680
 50 plus centers throughout our company's history, includes grocery anchored to service retail

2089
02:27:36,680 --> 02:27:45,280
 so we do it all and my goal here for this property was just going to be a large commercial

2090
02:27:45,280 --> 02:27:49,800
 shopping center, happened to be playing golf with one of the JPI guys.

2091
02:27:49,800 --> 02:27:54,440
 We have a friendship, told him I was looking at buying it.

2092
02:27:54,440 --> 02:28:01,080
 Like Nathan said, he's had a ton of people or developers, multifamily developers interested

2093
02:28:01,080 --> 02:28:05,920
 in the property, but I know JPI is one of the best.

2094
02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:11,120
 We decided, hey, let's go try to get this zoned and I think because I've been in this

2095
02:28:11,120 --> 02:28:18,720
 situation many, many, many times where I've had meetings like this and traffic is an issue.

2096
02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:25,480
 There's no question the traffic is immense, but as a developer that's what I look for.

2097
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:32,240
 I want intersections that have high traffic and I would venture to say and I'm not a traffic

2098
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:38,960
 engineer but a project that gets built there someday and it will, it's a great intersection,

2099
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:46,720
 one of the best properties left in my opinion in Denton, it will develop and I would venture

2100
02:28:46,720 --> 02:28:55,640
 to say that there, the traffic could potentially be three times once this develops to its capacity

2101
02:28:55,640 --> 02:29:02,840
 than what is planned tonight and a lot of times I think that's lost because the homeowners

2102
02:29:02,840 --> 02:29:09,760
 on a zoning case like this get to speak and they get to touch the project in certain ways

2103
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:19,000
 and get to ask for things that either get added to or adjusted.

2104
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:20,000
 Safety is a huge issue.

2105
02:29:20,000 --> 02:29:21,000
 I get that.

2106
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:22,000
 I understand.

2107
02:29:22,000 --> 02:29:23,000
 I have four boys.

2108
02:29:23,000 --> 02:29:24,000
 I get it.

2109
02:29:24,000 --> 02:29:31,400
 Safety, we'll do everything we can from a safety perspective, but if it gets denied

2110
02:29:31,400 --> 02:29:36,840
 and someday I come back in here with a project that doesn't come to you guys, it just goes

2111
02:29:36,840 --> 02:29:42,200
 through staff because it's zoned and I want to develop a shopping center, then I'm going

2112
02:29:42,200 --> 02:29:43,440
 to do that.

2113
02:29:43,440 --> 02:29:44,880
 We won't have this meeting.

2114
02:29:44,880 --> 02:29:50,400
 I'll be going through staff, site plan approval, going through the normal channels and there's

2115
02:29:50,400 --> 02:29:57,080
 not really any, I mean, public input because I'm following the guidelines in my zoning.

2116
02:29:57,080 --> 02:30:03,440
 This particular development would have a service retail component to it that we do a lot of.

2117
02:30:03,440 --> 02:30:12,760
 You saw some pictures, we have our restaurants, we have our salons, we have our dentist, just

2118
02:30:12,760 --> 02:30:20,280
 to help serve the neighborhood at a location that people can get to easy and we're making

2119
02:30:20,280 --> 02:30:21,940
 improvements to the roads.

2120
02:30:21,940 --> 02:30:28,080
 So again, I'm going to go back to traffic is a concern, but the traffic's coming and

2121
02:30:28,080 --> 02:30:35,600
 someday it very well is going to be a lot more than what this plan shows.

2122
02:30:35,600 --> 02:30:42,880
 So I think that what we're proposing here meets the comprehensive plan supported by

2123
02:30:42,880 --> 02:30:43,880
 staff.

2124
02:30:43,880 --> 02:30:48,880
 We've gone through almost two years of effort to try to get to where we are tonight.

2125
02:30:48,880 --> 02:30:59,040
 And so again, safety, we want to address however we can, but obviously I'm in support of the

2126
02:30:59,040 --> 02:31:00,040
 project.

2127
02:31:00,040 --> 02:31:01,040
 Thank you.

2128
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:02,040
 Thank you.

2129
02:31:02,040 --> 02:31:03,040
 I think we have a question for you.

2130
02:31:03,040 --> 02:31:04,040
 Commissioner Smith?

2131
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:05,040
 No?

2132
02:31:05,040 --> 02:31:06,040
 Thank you, Chair.

2133
02:31:06,040 --> 02:31:07,040
 Thank you, Mr. Standridge.

2134
02:31:07,040 --> 02:31:08,040
 I appreciate it.

2135
02:31:08,040 --> 02:31:09,040
 Hey, Karina, can I ask you a question?

2136
02:31:09,040 --> 02:31:11,880
 I know, I'll put you on the spot.

2137
02:31:11,880 --> 02:31:18,280
 So Mr. Standridge brought up, and I think that's something I've been looking at, we've been

2138
02:31:18,280 --> 02:31:24,160
 talking about this project for a while now, but Zoned SC has commercial uses that are

2139
02:31:24,160 --> 02:31:30,360
 already allowed by right from a traffic planner perspective, can you enlighten everybody in

2140
02:31:30,360 --> 02:31:38,000
 the room on traditional differences and daily trips between a multifamily type property?

2141
02:31:38,000 --> 02:31:42,760
 I know this has multifamily and commercial mixed use within there versus some sort of

2142
02:31:42,760 --> 02:31:47,880
 shopping center retail use, I would probably say that falls into the subuses of probably

2143
02:31:47,880 --> 02:31:51,760
 the 15,000 less size on the use table.

2144
02:31:51,760 --> 02:31:55,800
 Yeah, so I can take pieces of that and attempt to answer that question.

2145
02:31:55,800 --> 02:32:01,480
 I think Angie provided a great slide during the work session doing an analysis within

2146
02:32:01,480 --> 02:32:04,120
 the city of what that would look like in comparison.

2147
02:32:04,120 --> 02:32:09,480
 So within the suburban corridor zoning, what that trip generation would look like and maybe

2148
02:32:09,480 --> 02:32:11,760
 we could pull that slide up to help.

2149
02:32:11,760 --> 02:32:18,400
 I don't have the traffic codes off the top of my head, but in general, it really depends

2150
02:32:18,400 --> 02:32:21,120
 on the type of commercial development.

2151
02:32:21,120 --> 02:32:27,600
 So whether it's a shopping center, whether it has pad sites and it has drive-through

2152
02:32:27,600 --> 02:32:30,920
 uses, the drive-through use is going to increase the traffic.

2153
02:32:30,920 --> 02:32:34,640
 So there's a combination of uses that could go in there.

2154
02:32:34,640 --> 02:32:42,400
 In scenarios like this where there is a land use and maybe not an intended use identified

2155
02:32:42,400 --> 02:32:48,720
 yet with the traffic studies, we'll tell the traffic engineer to identify the most intense

2156
02:32:48,720 --> 02:32:52,600
 use and provide trip generation based on that.

2157
02:32:52,600 --> 02:32:55,080
 Generally commercial is going to increase traffic.

2158
02:32:55,080 --> 02:33:00,820
 I think it's been said a couple of times by several people here that general retail would

2159
02:33:00,820 --> 02:33:04,160
 increase the amount of traffic compared to what's proposed.

2160
02:33:04,160 --> 02:33:11,480
 However, it depends on the mix of uses and square footage and things like that.

2161
02:33:11,480 --> 02:33:15,080
 In general, yes, you will see more traffic with retail.

2162
02:33:15,080 --> 02:33:23,160
 You typically do see it on intersections of arterials and higher classified roadways.

2163
02:33:23,160 --> 02:33:27,520
 So I hope I answered that question.

2164
02:33:27,520 --> 02:33:29,400
 Thanks Karina.

2165
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:31,480
 This is a public hearing, still open.

2166
02:33:31,480 --> 02:33:36,600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item?

2167
02:33:36,600 --> 02:33:44,200
 Sure, come on down.

2168
02:33:44,200 --> 02:33:45,200
 Good evening.

2169
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:46,200
 If you'll state your name and address, your time will begin.

2170
02:33:46,200 --> 02:33:47,200
 My name is Mary White.

2171
02:33:47,200 --> 02:33:53,920
 My address is 3217 Deerfield Drive in Denton.

2172
02:33:53,920 --> 02:33:58,680
 I hadn't planned on speaking again tonight like a number of other people are.

2173
02:33:58,680 --> 02:34:03,960
 I've been living in Denton, I grew up in Dallas, moved here to go to school in 1968.

2174
02:34:03,960 --> 02:34:09,080
 Took three years away to go to Florida and I've lived here ever since.

2175
02:34:09,080 --> 02:34:12,080
 So over 50 years I've been in Denton.

2176
02:34:12,080 --> 02:34:18,680
 I've seen it grow, I've seen the square move out to Sunset Boulevard and the university

2177
02:34:18,680 --> 02:34:25,800
 and then the square go down and now become the vibrant thing that it is now.

2178
02:34:25,800 --> 02:34:36,160
 My biggest thing is I feel like we only have two places in Denton that I can call unique.

2179
02:34:36,160 --> 02:34:41,040
 Everything else has become commercial like Frisco, Prosper, even Salinas going that way

2180
02:34:41,040 --> 02:34:42,040
 now.

2181
02:34:42,040 --> 02:34:47,640
 We've got downtown Denton which I think is really cool compared to what it was 15 years

2182
02:34:47,640 --> 02:34:50,040
 ago when there was nobody there.

2183
02:34:50,040 --> 02:34:57,080
 Most people have done a great job and it's hard to park but I love seeing all the life

2184
02:34:57,080 --> 02:34:58,160
 down there.

2185
02:34:58,160 --> 02:35:03,880
 I love seeing all the inclusiveness that the city of Denton has.

2186
02:35:03,880 --> 02:35:06,880
 I kind of view us as a little Austin.

2187
02:35:06,880 --> 02:35:10,920
 We're unique, we have our own way of doing things.

2188
02:35:10,920 --> 02:35:16,240
 The only other place that we've got that's like that now is our northeast Denton area

2189
02:35:16,240 --> 02:35:23,240
 and it's a quiet habitat, it's a place that people can go to, get away from everything,

2190
02:35:23,240 --> 02:35:28,200
 nature's out there, we've got the creek, we've got the creek bottoms, it's just, it's the

2191
02:35:28,200 --> 02:35:35,680
 only unique place left other than Denton that we can all Denton and I hate to see that change.

2192
02:35:35,680 --> 02:35:43,000
 I also hate the fact that we go and the city council and the input from everybody else,

2193
02:35:43,000 --> 02:35:44,680
 they develop these plans.

2194
02:35:44,680 --> 02:35:50,880
 We had our 2020 plan, we had our 2030 plan, we had our 2040 plan and no sooner they get

2195
02:35:50,880 --> 02:35:54,600
 in place then we're asking to change it.

2196
02:35:54,600 --> 02:35:59,400
 I don't know why these people spend all these days and hours and months planning this and

2197
02:35:59,400 --> 02:36:04,680
 then it's kind of like this is what the plan is but no sooner is it in place than we want

2198
02:36:04,680 --> 02:36:08,680
 to change it.

2199
02:36:08,680 --> 02:36:12,800
 I'm probably a little bit different from some of the people that I know who need industry,

2200
02:36:12,800 --> 02:36:14,880
 keeps our tax base growing.

2201
02:36:14,880 --> 02:36:19,360
 We've also got to have places for these people to live and they all can't afford housing,

2202
02:36:19,360 --> 02:36:25,320
 we've got to have apartments, I understand, I get all that but we still got to have places

2203
02:36:25,320 --> 02:36:33,000
 that keep Denton unique and this is one of the two main places that's happening on.

2204
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:40,200
 So I ask you please, we don't want to be Frisco, we don't want to be Prosper, I've told people

2205
02:36:40,200 --> 02:36:45,800
 this over and over and over again, we had our great big small area plan that they had

2206
02:36:45,800 --> 02:36:50,400
 that Hodge that the city put on big dance and pony show for us and hundreds and hundreds

2207
02:36:50,400 --> 02:36:55,640
 of people showed up and we told them exactly what they want and this is our schedule to

2208
02:36:55,640 --> 02:36:57,800
 be changed before that was even in there.

2209
02:36:57,800 --> 02:37:01,040
 I talked to these people and said why are we doing this when you don't listen to us?

2210
02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:05,840
 No, no, no, we're doing this because we want to listen to you but we're bringing this up

2211
02:37:05,840 --> 02:37:08,080
 there and we want to change it.

2212
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:16,640
 So please keep that in mind, you've heard safety questions on here, just keep part of

2213
02:37:16,640 --> 02:37:22,160
 Denton for us please, that's all I can ask of you, thank you.

2214
02:37:22,160 --> 02:37:26,160
 Thank you.

2215
02:37:26,160 --> 02:37:39,080
 This is a public hearing, if you have not already spoken, you may come down.

2216
02:37:39,080 --> 02:37:55,480
 Hello, I'm Mary Arndt and I live at 3375 Hartley Field Road and I so appreciate the time that

2217
02:37:55,480 --> 02:37:59,640
 you all put in to all of the decisions that you make for Denton.

2218
02:37:59,640 --> 02:38:03,720
 I just, I can't even imagine all of the extra time that you put into this.

2219
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:11,480
 I so appreciate this fine, fine group of builders and designers that we have, they seem to be

2220
02:38:11,480 --> 02:38:18,200
 top notch and truly, truly able to do a good job but you're hearing from our neighbors,

2221
02:38:18,200 --> 02:38:21,240
 you're hearing from the people who live here.

2222
02:38:21,240 --> 02:38:28,000
 We count too, we matter and my question is, whom do you all represent?

2223
02:38:28,000 --> 02:38:31,400
 The developers are the people of Denton.

2224
02:38:31,400 --> 02:38:38,120
 How many people who live here want more of this kind of development?

2225
02:38:38,120 --> 02:38:43,360
 We need apartments here, we've got two universities, we've got young people moving in, we need

2226
02:38:43,360 --> 02:38:44,360
 some.

2227
02:38:44,360 --> 02:38:50,520
 But golly, any direction you travel in Denton, we're doing really, really well with that.

2228
02:38:50,520 --> 02:38:54,400
 Have you asked the people who live here, do you want more?

2229
02:38:54,400 --> 02:39:00,920
 Because the people with whom I speak are fine with what we have and wouldn't mind as my

2230
02:39:00,920 --> 02:39:03,120
 husband said, "Let's get rid of a few."

2231
02:39:03,120 --> 02:39:05,200
 We have plenty.

2232
02:39:05,200 --> 02:39:14,040
 Let's keep the quality of life for the people who live here and again, whom do you represent?

2233
02:39:14,040 --> 02:39:21,640
 The developers or the people who live here?

2234
02:39:21,640 --> 02:39:24,480
 Thank you.

2235
02:39:24,480 --> 02:39:30,760
 I think what I'll just say to that is we technically don't really represent anyone just because

2236
02:39:30,760 --> 02:39:31,760
 we're not elected.

2237
02:39:31,760 --> 02:39:38,160
 We're a recommending body to city council so we're here to hear any application that

2238
02:39:38,160 --> 02:39:42,640
 comes before the city that requires a P&Z recommendation and that's what we're here

2239
02:39:42,640 --> 02:39:48,680
 to do and we do that to the best of our ability while we hear them.

2240
02:39:48,680 --> 02:39:55,600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this item who has not already spoken?

2241
02:39:55,600 --> 02:40:00,120
 Seeing none, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and we'll open the floor for

2242
02:40:00,120 --> 02:40:04,040
 a motion or discussion.

2243
02:40:04,040 --> 02:40:06,160
 Further questions if needed.

2244
02:40:06,160 --> 02:40:07,160
 Commissioner Cole.

2245
02:40:07,160 --> 02:40:08,920
 Thank you, Chair.

2246
02:40:08,920 --> 02:40:18,440
 I mentioned in the work session the problem I had with this development and it is about

2247
02:40:18,440 --> 02:40:20,600
 the small area plan.

2248
02:40:20,600 --> 02:40:22,720
 Is Northeast Denton special?

2249
02:40:22,720 --> 02:40:23,720
 Absolutely it is.

2250
02:40:23,720 --> 02:40:28,800
 In my opinion, Clear Creek is probably the most environmentally sensitive area we have.

2251
02:40:28,800 --> 02:40:31,800
 I grew up fishing it and this is fishing season right now.

2252
02:40:31,800 --> 02:40:36,520
 All the white bass are up there running up in the creeks.

2253
02:40:36,520 --> 02:40:43,560
 I've been on a small area plan committee that was, you know, recommendations were adopted

2254
02:40:43,560 --> 02:40:46,800
 by P&Z and council unanimously.

2255
02:40:46,800 --> 02:40:49,960
 They're important and I believe in the process.

2256
02:40:49,960 --> 02:40:57,640
 So I want to see the process through and then make my decision but I think we need to go

2257
02:40:57,640 --> 02:40:59,360
 through the process.

2258
02:40:59,360 --> 02:41:01,440
 Thank you.

2259
02:41:01,440 --> 02:41:02,440
 Commissioner McDade.

2260
02:41:02,440 --> 02:41:05,120
 Thank you, Chair.

2261
02:41:05,120 --> 02:41:12,040
 I just want to first off I want to thank everybody for coming out and I can say I'm personally

2262
02:41:12,040 --> 02:41:15,880
 I am not a fan of apartments.

2263
02:41:15,880 --> 02:41:23,800
 I think Denton has too many and I actually, the past month or so when this project came

2264
02:41:23,800 --> 02:41:29,600
 up I actually I don't work too far from Hartley from Hartley Field so two or three times a

2265
02:41:29,600 --> 02:41:35,600
 week I would drive that road and I know the issue you're having.

2266
02:41:35,600 --> 02:41:38,600
 It's horrendous.

2267
02:41:38,600 --> 02:41:44,160
 But my main issue is I don't know how long the stadium and the water park has been there

2268
02:41:44,160 --> 02:41:51,800
 but when they talk about the bike and the sidewalk that's something that should have

2269
02:41:51,800 --> 02:41:54,480
 been in place years ago.

2270
02:41:54,480 --> 02:41:56,960
 I don't think you wait for an apartment complex to come.

2271
02:41:56,960 --> 02:41:59,040
 Now we want to go in and put in safety measures.

2272
02:41:59,040 --> 02:42:05,120
 The safety measures should have been there 10 years ago.

2273
02:42:05,120 --> 02:42:10,640
 But the traffic and all that, that's why I can say without a doubt that I'm going to

2274
02:42:10,640 --> 02:42:18,280
 be a no on this project and pretty much that's all I have to say.

2275
02:42:18,280 --> 02:42:21,960
 We do have a motion on floor.

2276
02:42:21,960 --> 02:42:23,200
 Commissioner Villarreal.

2277
02:42:23,200 --> 02:42:27,920
 I think the feedback from the neighborhood is pretty clear on this.

2278
02:42:27,920 --> 02:42:33,520
 Not only are there safety concerns in terms of traffic but we have concerns in terms of

2279
02:42:33,520 --> 02:42:38,440
 the path the city is going on and that's why we have the northeast area plan taking a look

2280
02:42:38,440 --> 02:42:39,440
 at this.

2281
02:42:39,440 --> 02:42:41,560
 So with that in mind I'm moving to Nile.

2282
02:42:41,560 --> 02:42:46,800
 Commissioner, okay if we could stop so we can continue the discussion please.

2283
02:42:46,800 --> 02:42:49,000
 Commissioner Pruitt.

2284
02:42:49,000 --> 02:42:52,000
 Yeah I'll second that and if you'll permit me a few thoughts.

2285
02:42:52,000 --> 02:42:53,000
 Of course.

2286
02:42:53,000 --> 02:42:57,600
 I'll try to do what I attempt to do and that is make everybody in the room a little bit

2287
02:42:57,600 --> 02:43:02,520
 uneasy because I think that really what we need to think through and what this body is

2288
02:43:02,520 --> 02:43:09,240
 tasked with is understanding complex things and unfortunately you know when everybody's

2289
02:43:09,240 --> 02:43:13,600
 speaking for two minutes you can only try to simplify it.

2290
02:43:13,600 --> 02:43:21,720
 So just to be honest Sherman Drive is bad now especially right at Hartley Field.

2291
02:43:21,720 --> 02:43:23,080
 It's not going to get any better.

2292
02:43:23,080 --> 02:43:26,760
 I don't see a future where that happens.

2293
02:43:26,760 --> 02:43:36,680
 There's a lot of county land as one of the public described it that we don't control.

2294
02:43:36,680 --> 02:43:38,320
 We need homes.

2295
02:43:38,320 --> 02:43:39,320
 That's absolutely true.

2296
02:43:39,320 --> 02:43:44,720
 There was somebody who said that if we don't build it nobody will come.

2297
02:43:44,720 --> 02:43:45,840
 That's not true.

2298
02:43:45,840 --> 02:43:51,120
 What is true is if we don't build then the people who have more money will come until

2299
02:43:51,120 --> 02:43:55,560
 the people who have less money move out because housing will be way more expensive and your

2300
02:43:55,560 --> 02:44:01,440
 children will not be able to stay here.

2301
02:44:01,440 --> 02:44:05,760
 However the question is where.

2302
02:44:05,760 --> 02:44:14,800
 And I think as Commissioner Villarreal put it very well it's a situation where we have

2303
02:44:14,800 --> 02:44:19,920
 a few different options going into the future.

2304
02:44:19,920 --> 02:44:20,920
 Should it go here?

2305
02:44:20,920 --> 02:44:23,920
 Should it go toward the center of town?

2306
02:44:23,920 --> 02:44:29,280
 The only way that this area especially that county land doesn't just all of a sudden spring

2307
02:44:29,280 --> 02:44:36,020
 roots and have 18 subdivisions is if we build 9,000 more homes toward the center of Denton.

2308
02:44:36,020 --> 02:44:39,200
 That has not been happening.

2309
02:44:39,200 --> 02:44:44,840
 So that would be a change with the status quo and that would need a lot of public support

2310
02:44:44,840 --> 02:44:49,240
 to accomplish that.

2311
02:44:49,240 --> 02:44:53,760
 I think we have a good comprehensive plan and often we don't refer to it so I'm just

2312
02:44:53,760 --> 02:44:57,920
 going to read a short excerpt I think that speaks to many of the points that have been

2313
02:44:57,920 --> 02:45:02,200
 made tonight by the public and the commission.

2314
02:45:02,200 --> 02:45:08,040
 In the housing variety section it says outside of Denton's urban core are a number of designated

2315
02:45:08,040 --> 02:45:13,880
 centers and corridors which are targeted to undergo redevelopment from primarily commercial

2316
02:45:13,880 --> 02:45:19,880
 or undeveloped areas to a mixed use character incorporating moderate and high density residential

2317
02:45:19,880 --> 02:45:26,560
 uses in walkable patterns near transit and employment.

2318
02:45:26,560 --> 02:45:34,400
 The means of reinvigorating these areas begins with the creation of area plans.

2319
02:45:34,400 --> 02:45:45,920
 I won't belabor the point but, you know, this plan is a traditional second half of the 21st

2320
02:45:45,920 --> 02:45:50,480
 century, sorry we're not in the second half of the 21st century yet, second half of the

2321
02:45:50,480 --> 02:45:59,760
 20th century hard corner drive to retail with back access doors and a drainage ditch facing

2322
02:45:59,760 --> 02:46:01,840
 the residents behind it.

2323
02:46:01,840 --> 02:46:03,640
 This is not walkable.

2324
02:46:03,640 --> 02:46:12,400
 This is not what our comprehensive plan envisions for reinvigorating these areas.

2325
02:46:12,400 --> 02:46:19,880
 So I'll leave it at that, you know, I will say just one more thing.

2326
02:46:19,880 --> 02:46:23,080
 I understand the length of time that it's taken to get here.

2327
02:46:23,080 --> 02:46:28,320
 I don't put fault at any one person or any entity.

2328
02:46:28,320 --> 02:46:33,000
 I think everybody has worked hard and honestly the site plan is drafted with staff.

2329
02:46:33,000 --> 02:46:38,280
 It looks like staff has done an amazing job at trying to make lemonade from lemons.

2330
02:46:38,280 --> 02:46:45,920
 But sometimes what we have is lemons and we don't, we're not sure that we want lemonade.

2331
02:46:45,920 --> 02:46:47,200
 Okay.

2332
02:46:47,200 --> 02:46:49,620
 So thank you.

2333
02:46:49,620 --> 02:46:52,120
 And I will second.

2334
02:46:52,120 --> 02:46:53,120
 Commissioner Anderson.

2335
02:46:53,120 --> 02:46:54,120
 Thank you, Chair.

2336
02:46:54,120 --> 02:46:59,840
 First, thanks to all the residents that came out and spoke today.

2337
02:46:59,840 --> 02:47:03,960
 As Commissioner Cole said, I'm born and raised and did it my whole life as well.

2338
02:47:03,960 --> 02:47:07,360
 Fished that creek many, many times and used to ride my bike.

2339
02:47:07,360 --> 02:47:10,240
 I still live in the Northeast area, didn't.

2340
02:47:10,240 --> 02:47:11,960
 And that traffic is horrible.

2341
02:47:11,960 --> 02:47:14,320
 I admit that.

2342
02:47:14,320 --> 02:47:17,760
 To Mr. Riley's point, we don't know what's coming later though.

2343
02:47:17,760 --> 02:47:20,720
 It could be something that causes more traffic.

2344
02:47:20,720 --> 02:47:25,560
 Unfortunately, the way I look at it is the city and county kind of had dropped the ball

2345
02:47:25,560 --> 02:47:26,600
 on this.

2346
02:47:26,600 --> 02:47:32,800
 If there was more access roads off the loop, if there was, if they did make Harley Field

2347
02:47:32,800 --> 02:47:37,000
 intersection where long road intersects, it might be a little bit easier.

2348
02:47:37,000 --> 02:47:43,080
 But if there was another road off of Harley Field, they proposed a side access road.

2349
02:47:43,080 --> 02:47:47,360
 If that side access road would go to Harley Field, I think that would alleviate some of

2350
02:47:47,360 --> 02:47:49,280
 the, some of the traffic problems.

2351
02:47:49,280 --> 02:47:54,040
 You could come down Harley Field, exit that side road and come down to the loop instead

2352
02:47:54,040 --> 02:47:58,320
 of going to Harley Field and 428 and trying to take a left.

2353
02:47:58,320 --> 02:47:59,400
 I've driven it many times.

2354
02:47:59,400 --> 02:48:02,140
 I get scared every time I go out there too.

2355
02:48:02,140 --> 02:48:04,880
 We can't put the gentleman sitting here with the plaid shirt on.

2356
02:48:04,880 --> 02:48:06,720
 You said it perfectly earlier.

2357
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:12,480
 We're letting the kids down and, excuse me, and the thing about it is safety.

2358
02:48:12,480 --> 02:48:18,240
 We have a high school kids like the other lady said, not just football games.

2359
02:48:18,240 --> 02:48:25,200
 They have band competitions, water at the auditorium and she used swimming lessons, parents taking

2360
02:48:25,200 --> 02:48:32,760
 their kids to the skate park, the skate park, anyway, there's a, the, the Gonzales school

2361
02:48:32,760 --> 02:48:33,960
 down the street.

2362
02:48:33,960 --> 02:48:37,400
 They have different random hours than just normal schools.

2363
02:48:37,400 --> 02:48:42,980
 But anyways, that, the traffic is horrendous there.

2364
02:48:42,980 --> 02:48:47,140
 Trying to put those deceleration lanes there, I think that's going to cause an issue.

2365
02:48:47,140 --> 02:48:51,760
 Not only because you're going to try to get into lane one, well the person up here pulling

2366
02:48:51,760 --> 02:48:55,800
 out of lane driveway two might think you're trying to pull into lane one, but you're actually

2367
02:48:55,800 --> 02:49:00,320
 trying to go into lane two and then you pull out in front of them, there's an accident.

2368
02:49:00,320 --> 02:49:03,520
 So I think there's a lot of problems with this thing.

2369
02:49:03,520 --> 02:49:06,240
 I think you guys did a tremendous job on the project.

2370
02:49:06,240 --> 02:49:07,640
 I think it looks great.

2371
02:49:07,640 --> 02:49:12,280
 I just think if there was more access roads to work around it, to get the traffic flowing

2372
02:49:12,280 --> 02:49:14,900
 better, it'd be a done deal.

2373
02:49:14,900 --> 02:49:17,760
 But with the traffic pattern the way it is, it's just horrendous.

2374
02:49:17,760 --> 02:49:19,880
 I can't, unfortunately, I can't help you out on that.

2375
02:49:19,880 --> 02:49:20,880
 I can't vote for it.

2376
02:49:20,880 --> 02:49:21,880
 So thanks.

2377
02:49:21,880 --> 02:49:22,880
 Thank you, Commissioner Anderson.

2378
02:49:22,880 --> 02:49:23,880
 Commissioner Smith.

2379
02:49:23,880 --> 02:49:26,880
 Thank you, Chair.

2380
02:49:26,880 --> 02:49:31,120
 This is what I guess in the six years I've been on PNZ is what I call one of our chicken

2381
02:49:31,120 --> 02:49:38,160
 and egg projects where the concern from the neighborhood is traffic and the conversation

2382
02:49:38,160 --> 02:49:43,960
 is what is the main area in thoroughfare for traffic and it's a text dot controlled road.

2383
02:49:43,960 --> 02:49:48,320
 And sadly enough, text dot is reactive, not proactive.

2384
02:49:48,320 --> 02:49:57,600
 It makes it tough for development community, city planners, neighborhoods to be able to

2385
02:49:57,600 --> 02:50:03,720
 create a safe environment that is conducive for those that wanna live there and those

2386
02:50:03,720 --> 02:50:11,320
 that currently live there since the reaction from the State Highway or the State Department

2387
02:50:11,320 --> 02:50:17,360
 of Transportation is once there is a project there to predicate the need for us to look

2388
02:50:17,360 --> 02:50:20,920
 at it, we will then look at it.

2389
02:50:20,920 --> 02:50:25,240
 With that said, I think what Mr. Standridge brought up, the fact that this property being

2390
02:50:25,240 --> 02:50:33,760
 already zoned suburban corridor also brings this to a chicken and egg project because

2391
02:50:33,760 --> 02:50:39,920
 by right, this could develop as a commercial property and by right, that commercial property

2392
02:50:39,920 --> 02:50:46,840
 could have higher traffic than a mixed use property could.

2393
02:50:46,840 --> 02:50:49,160
 To be honest with you, I'm torn on the project entirely.

2394
02:50:49,160 --> 02:50:54,560
 I think that I hear the neighborhood and I understand and recognize the concerns growing

2395
02:50:54,560 --> 02:51:00,600
 up and did myself understanding how busy and how crazy Hartley Field Road is and how crazy

2396
02:51:00,600 --> 02:51:05,680
 that section of Sherman is and playing at CH Collins and knowing how hectic it is getting

2397
02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:10,560
 in and out of there, that it's a tough project to look at.

2398
02:51:10,560 --> 02:51:16,760
 With that said, I think it's something that needs just be a fair warning to the neighbors

2399
02:51:16,760 --> 02:51:24,040
 who have spoken tonight that whatever ends up happening in the future, it doesn't end

2400
02:51:24,040 --> 02:51:28,220
 with a planning and zoning commission meeting, it doesn't end with city council, it doesn't

2401
02:51:28,220 --> 02:51:33,920
 end with this project or Mr. Standridge, the buyer or the prospective buyer of this property,

2402
02:51:33,920 --> 02:51:39,800
 that it could essentially develop into something worse than what you're here thinking tonight

2403
02:51:39,800 --> 02:51:41,120
 would be.

2404
02:51:41,120 --> 02:51:47,680
 I think that's a fair consideration to take into account and the only difference between

2405
02:51:47,680 --> 02:51:54,400
 tonight and what could be worse is you have no say in what could be worse.

2406
02:51:54,400 --> 02:51:59,040
 You have no weight in it.

2407
02:51:59,040 --> 02:52:04,760
 And I think that really it's just something that has to be said and has to be clear because

2408
02:52:04,760 --> 02:52:09,880
 I think that very clear from what's being said today is that what is going to happen

2409
02:52:09,880 --> 02:52:14,960
 when we come to a vote has been made evident and so I need to make sure that I take the

2410
02:52:14,960 --> 02:52:15,960
 time to say that.

2411
02:52:15,960 --> 02:52:16,960
 Thank you, Chair.

2412
02:52:16,960 --> 02:52:18,480
 Thanks, Commissioner Smith.

2413
02:52:18,480 --> 02:52:23,440
 So, I guess I'll just say a few words and then we'll go ahead and vote.

2414
02:52:23,440 --> 02:52:27,720
 First of all, thank you for everyone from the applicant to our community members who

2415
02:52:27,720 --> 02:52:30,160
 came out to speak tonight.

2416
02:52:30,160 --> 02:52:31,640
 Multiple issues were brought up.

2417
02:52:31,640 --> 02:52:33,080
 Traffic is obviously a problem.

2418
02:52:33,080 --> 02:52:38,120
 We've been talking about this area for the many years that I've been on this board and

2419
02:52:38,120 --> 02:52:43,880
 it's a problem and it will get fixed when, we don't know, we're dealing with two state

2420
02:52:43,880 --> 02:52:45,560
 roads.

2421
02:52:45,560 --> 02:52:51,720
 It's obviously not the developer's problem, whatever is going to go here on this corner.

2422
02:52:51,720 --> 02:52:53,360
 This corner is going to develop.

2423
02:52:53,360 --> 02:52:58,840
 It's zoned SC, which I think is actually proper zoning for this corner.

2424
02:52:58,840 --> 02:53:02,560
 But our future land use does say community mixed use.

2425
02:53:02,560 --> 02:53:06,780
 The request tonight is not, it's against the future land use map.

2426
02:53:06,780 --> 02:53:08,760
 It's not community mixed use.

2427
02:53:08,760 --> 02:53:14,120
 It's a very nice looking multifamily development.

2428
02:53:14,120 --> 02:53:16,440
 It really does look fantastic.

2429
02:53:16,440 --> 02:53:21,760
 I think this is a really bad location for it and I think we as a city would be giving

2430
02:53:21,760 --> 02:53:25,320
 up a prime commercial corner.

2431
02:53:25,320 --> 02:53:33,120
 We don't have a whole lot left in the city to develop well.

2432
02:53:33,120 --> 02:53:40,920
 I understand the timing with the small area plan is poor for you all, but it's so important.

2433
02:53:40,920 --> 02:53:44,720
 Development is something that we have wanted to do for this area for so many years because

2434
02:53:44,720 --> 02:53:46,280
 we need a plan for this area.

2435
02:53:46,280 --> 02:53:53,280
 If you're not from here, this is a very special, special area of our community.

2436
02:53:53,280 --> 02:53:55,080
 Development is going to happen.

2437
02:53:55,080 --> 02:54:00,400
 Obviously it already has, but what we need to do the rest of the way to preserve the

2438
02:54:00,400 --> 02:54:06,600
 uniqueness and the special character of this area is to have a plan and develop it well.

2439
02:54:06,600 --> 02:54:12,520
 I do think again that suburban corridor sticking with our future land use and community mixed

2440
02:54:12,520 --> 02:54:14,840
 use I think is good.

2441
02:54:14,840 --> 02:54:21,720
 I hope what will happen is the small area plan will determine what goes there and how

2442
02:54:21,720 --> 02:54:28,000
 the rest of this is going to develop and steer that forward.

2443
02:54:28,000 --> 02:54:34,120
 Unfortunately, the request before us tonight, I can't support basically the location.

2444
02:54:34,120 --> 02:54:38,640
 I know it was brought up by a speaker that, well, this type of development is working

2445
02:54:38,640 --> 02:54:43,080
 on the other side, and it is, and it's working really well on the other side, except it's

2446
02:54:43,080 --> 02:54:47,400
 the other side, which is very different than this side of the loop.

2447
02:54:47,400 --> 02:54:51,160
 It really is.

2448
02:54:51,160 --> 02:54:57,400
 I do think that we have to pause, let the small area plan play out, and development

2449
02:54:57,400 --> 02:55:02,440
 will happen hopefully in the right direction for our city.

2450
02:55:02,440 --> 02:55:04,840
 With that, thank you again for everyone.

2451
02:55:04,840 --> 02:55:17,760
 Let's go ahead and vote on the board.

2452
02:55:17,760 --> 02:55:21,440
 That motion does carry 6-1.

2453
02:55:21,440 --> 02:55:27,160
 I'm going to go ahead and pause at 8.30 p.m. here.

2454
02:55:27,160 --> 02:55:28,160
 We'll let the room clear out.

2455
02:55:28,160 --> 02:55:32,640
 We'll come back and hear our next public hearing.

2456
02:55:32,640 --> 02:55:41,640
 Five minutes.

2457
02:55:41,640 --> 02:55:42,640
 Welcome back.

2458
02:55:42,640 --> 02:55:43,640
 Thank you for letting us take that pause.

2459
02:55:43,640 --> 02:55:48,440
 I will call us back to order at 8.42 p.m.

2460
02:55:48,440 --> 02:55:54,760
 Next on our agenda is Item 5B, PD-220010C.

2461
02:55:54,760 --> 02:55:58,400
 Mia is going to come up for presentation.

2462
02:55:58,400 --> 02:56:02,600
 That public hearing was opened and has remained open.

2463
02:56:02,600 --> 02:56:15,920
 Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Mia Hines, Associate Planner.

2464
02:56:15,920 --> 02:56:21,320
 This item is a request to rezone just under 13 acres located at the northwest corner of

2465
02:56:21,320 --> 02:56:26,600
 Teasley Lane and Ryan Road from PDMN to PDSC.

2466
02:56:26,600 --> 02:56:31,860
 Under the current PDMN, permitted uses are those commercial uses that are permitted under

2467
02:56:31,860 --> 02:56:38,760
 the former NRMU zoning district, but the site would be subject to the current MN development

2468
02:56:38,760 --> 02:56:40,000
 standards.

2469
02:56:40,000 --> 02:56:45,520
 There's a hodgepodge, a mix of development code requirements and references that are

2470
02:56:45,520 --> 02:56:47,780
 currently applicable to this site.

2471
02:56:47,780 --> 02:56:54,400
 This zoning request would permit certain commercial uses appropriate for this context and that

2472
02:56:54,400 --> 02:56:59,200
 development regulations with those use restrictions are included in your backup.

2473
02:56:59,200 --> 02:57:03,560
 The base zoning would, of course, be SC and so those permitted uses would fall under the

2474
02:57:03,560 --> 02:57:04,920
 SC category.

2475
02:57:04,920 --> 02:57:10,200
 Additionally, this request would require compliance with the current development code.

2476
02:57:10,200 --> 02:57:15,140
 It would just remove any reference to the 2002 development code and bring everything

2477
02:57:15,140 --> 02:57:17,160
 up to compliance with our current code.

2478
02:57:17,160 --> 02:57:22,720
 It would also require additional context sensitive site design considerations considering the

2479
02:57:22,720 --> 02:57:31,160
 recent expansion of Teasley Lane as well as the existing residential to the west of this

2480
02:57:31,160 --> 02:57:36,080
 property and some of the growth that this area has experienced.

2481
02:57:36,080 --> 02:57:40,000
 Just to give you a brief reminder, this is one of the first overlay PDs that you are

2482
02:57:40,000 --> 02:57:44,520
 seeing since we've made that split within our development code.

2483
02:57:44,520 --> 02:57:50,560
 You might be used to for PD seeing development regulations as well as a development plan.

2484
02:57:50,560 --> 02:57:55,360
 In this case, it's just the development regulations with those additional overlay restrictions

2485
02:57:55,360 --> 02:58:00,920
 as that's the separation between this overlay, this application and the standard PD that you're

2486
02:58:00,920 --> 02:58:03,600
 used to seeing.

2487
02:58:03,600 --> 02:58:11,520
 So staff did review this up against our criteria for approval in subchapter two.

2488
02:58:11,520 --> 02:58:15,480
 Some of the things that I wanted to call out within this presentation is that this proposed

2489
02:58:15,480 --> 02:58:21,120
 PD would again be subject or allow the site to be subject to the current development standards

2490
02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:28,120
 of our DDC as well as respond to some of the growth that the area has experienced.

2491
02:58:28,120 --> 02:58:36,160
 Additionally, the proposed PD builds on additional buffers that we currently have in place and

2492
02:58:36,160 --> 02:58:40,640
 to minimize adverse impacts on the surrounding less intensive uses like the residential that

2493
02:58:40,640 --> 02:58:47,120
 I mentioned earlier, as well as this proposed rezoning is in line with the community mixed

2494
02:58:47,120 --> 02:58:52,720
 use future land use map designation of our DIT and 2040 comprehensive plan.

2495
02:58:52,720 --> 02:58:57,720
 Speaking of which, that designation again is community mixed use.

2496
02:58:57,720 --> 02:59:04,180
 The proposed PD is consistent, a base zoning to SC would be consistent with that zoning

2497
02:59:04,180 --> 02:59:09,600
 district in this case, but that PD is being proposed to add some of those additional context

2498
02:59:09,600 --> 02:59:14,440
 sensitive design standards and restrict some of those uses that again might not mesh with

2499
02:59:14,440 --> 02:59:17,280
 some of the surrounding areas.

2500
02:59:17,280 --> 02:59:21,080
 As far as development standards, again the PD regulations and some of the things that

2501
02:59:21,080 --> 02:59:29,640
 would be required are it would be subject to the existing SC zoning development standards.

2502
02:59:29,640 --> 02:59:33,440
 Those items have been included in your backup, but I did want to note that since the first

2503
02:59:33,440 --> 02:59:40,880
 time that this body heard this case in February, the applicant has proposed to add a cap on

2504
02:59:40,880 --> 02:59:45,080
 the amount of drive-through facilities that could be permitted within this PD.

2505
02:59:45,080 --> 02:59:49,440
 They are proposing to make that three and that would be what would be permitted by right

2506
02:59:49,440 --> 02:59:54,840
 on either track one or track two within this PD.

2507
02:59:54,840 --> 02:59:59,560
 That has been added to the PD regulations and within our recommendation since the publication

2508
02:59:59,560 --> 03:00:03,940
 or as I mentioned in the work session since the publication of this item, there are some

2509
03:00:03,940 --> 03:00:10,280
 changes to clarify what would be required within that area or for that specific land

2510
03:00:10,280 --> 03:00:12,520
 use.

2511
03:00:12,520 --> 03:00:18,080
 Just speaking to some of the context sensitivity, this area has experienced significant growth.

2512
03:00:18,080 --> 03:00:24,080
 The image to your left is from an aerial from 2017 and the image to your right is an aerial

2513
03:00:24,080 --> 03:00:30,720
 from 2023, as you can see several of the sites that were vacant just six years ago, undeveloped

2514
03:00:30,720 --> 03:00:35,240
 just six years ago have now been either built out or under construction to the point of

2515
03:00:35,240 --> 03:00:38,680
 being built out.

2516
03:00:38,680 --> 03:00:46,280
 The commercial piece of this would be supported by that growth in this area.

2517
03:00:46,280 --> 03:00:54,060
 Additionally, Teasley Lane has grown from a two-lane roadway to a six-lane divided roadway

2518
03:00:54,060 --> 03:00:58,920
 and again, so some of those mixed use neighborhood standards that might be ideal for a lower

2519
03:00:58,920 --> 03:01:08,480
 classified lane or roadway that's not as wide, not as many lanes is not necessarily appropriate

2520
03:01:08,480 --> 03:01:13,560
 with the expansion of Teasley Lane and so again, this would provide for a development

2521
03:01:13,560 --> 03:01:17,200
 that would be more appropriate for that.

2522
03:01:17,200 --> 03:01:21,920
 In accordance with our code and state law, we did perform public outreach at the time

2523
03:01:21,920 --> 03:01:28,200
 of this report, we had received three responses in favor.

2524
03:01:28,200 --> 03:01:33,200
 Those are being the multifamily complex to the west of the southern tract as well as

2525
03:01:33,200 --> 03:01:37,320
 two property owners to the west of the northern tract.

2526
03:01:37,320 --> 03:01:43,160
 Those are single family homes and then one commercial business owner responded in opposition

2527
03:01:43,160 --> 03:01:47,440
 just south of Ryan Road.

2528
03:01:47,440 --> 03:01:53,120
 With that stuff is recommending approval as it does comply with our DDC and all of those

2529
03:01:53,120 --> 03:02:00,600
 items that I've mentioned before and this is just that clarified version of the PD regulations.

2530
03:02:00,600 --> 03:02:06,080
 This would replace that last paragraph in section two of the PD regulations and part

2531
03:02:06,080 --> 03:02:07,080
 of your backup.

2532
03:02:07,080 --> 03:02:11,560
 With that, the applicant is here with the presentation but I will stand for any questions

2533
03:02:11,560 --> 03:02:16,560
 that you have for me at this time.

2534
03:02:16,560 --> 03:02:21,680
 Commissioner Villareal.

2535
03:02:21,680 --> 03:02:26,440
 Real quick, how many drive through restaurants or drive through establishments would you

2536
03:02:26,440 --> 03:02:31,780
 expect to be able to fit on these tracks if the cap wasn't there?

2537
03:02:31,780 --> 03:02:33,260
 So it depends.

2538
03:02:33,260 --> 03:02:40,020
 I think you could probably configure them to work that way for all of those sites.

2539
03:02:40,020 --> 03:02:45,560
 I think for the preliminary plat that was approved in the summer of last year had, I

2540
03:02:45,560 --> 03:02:50,440
 believe it was seven total lots but I don't think that's the intent of the applicant

2541
03:02:50,440 --> 03:02:56,920
 but just I think they would all fall within the SC district so the land use would be permitted

2542
03:02:56,920 --> 03:02:59,040
 on other of the tracks.

2543
03:02:59,040 --> 03:03:04,280
 That was going to be questions at the moment Mia.

2544
03:03:04,280 --> 03:03:05,280
 Thank you very much.

2545
03:03:05,280 --> 03:03:12,380
 I'm going to call it Mr. Johnson because I believe he has a presentation before we get

2546
03:03:12,380 --> 03:03:30,360
 to a couple cards I have.

2547
03:03:30,360 --> 03:03:31,360
 Good evening.

2548
03:03:31,360 --> 03:03:32,360
 Good evening again.

2549
03:03:32,360 --> 03:03:33,360
 Greg Johnson, 3190 Teasley.

2550
03:03:33,360 --> 03:03:36,000
 Thank you for your service as always.

2551
03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:38,160
 Pays great.

2552
03:03:38,160 --> 03:03:47,440
 So I'm not going to piggyback on top of what Mia's already presented but by way of background,

2553
03:03:47,440 --> 03:03:53,800
 as I mentioned when we first started talking about this, the legacy PD terminology can

2554
03:03:53,800 --> 03:03:55,080
 be really confusing, right?

2555
03:03:55,080 --> 03:03:59,000
 So when we say PDMN it kind of comes across as if this was a PD, right?

2556
03:03:59,000 --> 03:04:03,500
 This is a legacy PD because of when the citywide rezoning was done.

2557
03:04:03,500 --> 03:04:08,160
 PD zoning, any parcel that had zoning on it with any kind of a condition, like in this

2558
03:04:08,160 --> 03:04:15,360
 case no multi-family, it became a PD so when we say PDMN, I think it seemed to some of

2559
03:04:15,360 --> 03:04:18,600
 you guys the first time we talked about it like well it's already a PD.

2560
03:04:18,600 --> 03:04:27,280
 So it's old, falls under the 2002 DDC, the underlying MN zoning presents many, many challenges

2561
03:04:27,280 --> 03:04:34,040
 to be able to develop the site and when we talked to staff about it the first time, basically

2562
03:04:34,040 --> 03:04:37,760
 the way that the staff responded was hey this is an opportunity to clean up what's kind

2563
03:04:37,760 --> 03:04:44,760
 of a really messy PD, not anybody's fault but it's really old.

2564
03:04:44,760 --> 03:04:48,000
 So what I wanted to do with my presentation was basically say here's the concerns that

2565
03:04:48,000 --> 03:04:52,360
 I heard from you guys the first time we talked about this and I hope to be able to address

2566
03:04:52,360 --> 03:04:53,360
 those for you.

2567
03:04:53,360 --> 03:04:58,220
 So the concerns that I heard that I had in my notes, I went back and watched the meeting,

2568
03:04:58,220 --> 03:05:03,200
 I thought my jokes were funny by the way, but they still aren't clearly.

2569
03:05:03,200 --> 03:05:09,040
 So the first concern was school children crossing Teasley to Nelson, increased traffic causing

2570
03:05:09,040 --> 03:05:13,160
 congestion for the neighborhood, like to see a signal at Teasley and Hunters Creek, it's

2571
03:05:13,160 --> 03:05:16,240
 already a PD, you guys can read right.

2572
03:05:16,240 --> 03:05:20,960
 Honestly I wasn't prepared to answer some of these concerns at the first meeting, I didn't

2573
03:05:20,960 --> 03:05:25,960
 really expect much of that discussion or push back just because of the way the conversations

2574
03:05:25,960 --> 03:05:29,880
 have gone with staff and so I'm glad to have the opportunity to address those concerns

2575
03:05:29,880 --> 03:05:31,800
 today in a better way.

2576
03:05:31,800 --> 03:05:36,160
 So first one, school children crossing Teasley, I thought this was the case, I didn't really

2577
03:05:36,160 --> 03:05:40,640
 get a chance to come back up to answer questions at the end but you can see the school boundary

2578
03:05:40,640 --> 03:05:45,440
 map here, the reason there's no crossing guard or crosswalk there is no kids have to cross

2579
03:05:45,440 --> 03:05:49,280
 Teasley to go to school at Nelson.

2580
03:05:49,280 --> 03:05:53,880
 Secondly, increased traffic causing congestion for the neighborhood, I thought it important

2581
03:05:53,880 --> 03:05:58,840
 to point out when this neighborhood, which is the neighborhood Teasley trails adjacent

2582
03:05:58,840 --> 03:06:05,480
 to the west was developed, it was developed with three main entrances, the main main being

2583
03:06:05,480 --> 03:06:10,800
 main entrance number one on Ryan, but then there's another main entrance on Teasley at

2584
03:06:10,800 --> 03:06:17,000
 Ranchman and then another one on Teasley at, I can't read the name of that street, Hunters

2585
03:06:17,000 --> 03:06:22,440
 Creek Road was put in because of the apartments, the apartments had two modes of egress, negress,

2586
03:06:22,440 --> 03:06:29,400
 there was a way to stub it into the neighborhood for some future point, but the congestion

2587
03:06:29,400 --> 03:06:35,040
 for the neighborhood, the neighborhood has three entrances already today, this is a fourth,

2588
03:06:35,040 --> 03:06:41,160
 really see it as an ancillary access point for the neighborhood.

2589
03:06:41,160 --> 03:06:47,980
 So you can see I mean very major inferences here, the entrance one which is on Ryan, which

2590
03:06:47,980 --> 03:06:54,080
 obviously is signalized at Teasley and then Ranchman and then the third one, the Ranchman

2591
03:06:54,080 --> 03:06:58,120
 is a very large entrance as well.

2592
03:06:58,120 --> 03:07:02,280
 Next concern, we'd like to see a signal at Teasley and Hunters Creek, we would too, I

2593
03:07:02,280 --> 03:07:08,160
 mean commercial users want a signal and so I heard the comments and obviously you guys

2594
03:07:08,160 --> 03:07:12,620
 have seen the comments from some of the folks that live in Teasley trails, many of them

2595
03:07:12,620 --> 03:07:17,760
 from the from the neighborhood and their Facebook group, you guys got basically the same message

2596
03:07:17,760 --> 03:07:19,040
 over and over.

2597
03:07:19,040 --> 03:07:25,200
 We don't want to see this thing happen without a signal, clearly, right, and we have petitioned

2598
03:07:25,200 --> 03:07:28,360
 text dot, we want a signal here too.

2599
03:07:28,360 --> 03:07:33,340
 Since the last meeting we had Kimley Horn update their traffic study to determine if

2600
03:07:33,340 --> 03:07:38,360
 these lots were built out with the proposed use types that we have conceptualized there,

2601
03:07:38,360 --> 03:07:42,840
 right, we have two users today and others that will ultimately come and we just showed

2602
03:07:42,840 --> 03:07:45,760
 a mix of what would likely go there.

2603
03:07:45,760 --> 03:07:51,140
 The signal would warrant, it would meet text dot's warrant requirements once built out

2604
03:07:51,140 --> 03:07:55,720
 with these commercial uses as we have shown.

2605
03:07:55,720 --> 03:08:00,840
 But that's all we can do, right, we can't we can't make text dot put a signal.

2606
03:08:00,840 --> 03:08:07,640
 We have, I've asked them to consider if they knew the signal would warrant when all the

2607
03:08:07,640 --> 03:08:14,000
 lots were built out, would they consider allowing the signal to go in on the front end because

2608
03:08:14,000 --> 03:08:17,680
 of the concern that the gentleman from Summit Oaks brought up last time which is we can't

2609
03:08:17,680 --> 03:08:23,040
 see trying to get out because of the way Teasley was built right up against their neighborhood

2610
03:08:23,040 --> 03:08:24,200
 brick wall.

2611
03:08:24,200 --> 03:08:26,680
 I went and drove it, he's exactly right.

2612
03:08:26,680 --> 03:08:30,680
 It's a very dangerous place to exit and Summit Oaks doesn't really have another way to get

2613
03:08:30,680 --> 03:08:38,160
 out and so I have proposed to someone at text dot that just ask them the question.

2614
03:08:38,160 --> 03:08:43,320
 If you know ultimately it will warrant, would you allow it to go in on the front end because

2615
03:08:43,320 --> 03:08:49,000
 you've got a problem at Summit Oaks just like you created on 2499 with the wall at Hickory

2616
03:08:49,000 --> 03:08:50,000
 Creek.

2617
03:08:50,000 --> 03:08:53,200
 It's the same situation, you just have to keep inching until you can see.

2618
03:08:53,200 --> 03:08:58,320
 Don't have an answer yet, you don't get an answer from text dot in a week or two or a

2619
03:08:58,320 --> 03:09:00,840
 month or two.

2620
03:09:00,840 --> 03:09:05,220
 But what I did get in the conversation, it's highly likely that text dot will ultimately

2621
03:09:05,220 --> 03:09:10,840
 approve a signal at Hunters Creek or Ranchman which is then next to the north because of

2622
03:09:10,840 --> 03:09:13,720
 all the traffic coming from the east side.

2623
03:09:13,720 --> 03:09:19,480
 The point is if a signal happens at Hunters Creek or it happens at Ranchman, either way

2624
03:09:19,480 --> 03:09:22,240
 the neighborhood gets a signalized intersection on Teasley.

2625
03:09:22,240 --> 03:09:27,760
 We would hope that it would happen at Hunters Creek but we don't have any control over what

2626
03:09:27,760 --> 03:09:28,760
 text dot does.

2627
03:09:28,760 --> 03:09:32,560
 So we've asked them to consider and we hope that will happen.

2628
03:09:32,560 --> 03:09:37,000
 I think I mentioned this already but one of the concerns was it's already a PD, why not

2629
03:09:37,000 --> 03:09:39,160
 develop under the existing PD.

2630
03:09:39,160 --> 03:09:45,040
 It's because it wasn't a PD, it's a legacy PD so there's no PD requirements in it.

2631
03:09:45,040 --> 03:09:48,560
 It wasn't put in as a planned development.

2632
03:09:48,560 --> 03:09:52,560
 So the only thing in the PD is you can't build apartments.

2633
03:09:52,560 --> 03:09:56,640
 And so which is why we've worked with the staff to put these additional things that

2634
03:09:56,640 --> 03:10:02,960
 the staff asked for to make Hunters Creek more of a nicer entrance into the neighborhood

2635
03:10:02,960 --> 03:10:07,120
 and into the commercial development.

2636
03:10:07,120 --> 03:10:12,840
 Again the underlying zoning presents a challenge which is MN is a fantastic zoning class for

2637
03:10:12,840 --> 03:10:16,040
 like urban redevelopment, make areas walkable.

2638
03:10:16,040 --> 03:10:20,920
 You think about Carroll Boulevard here close to downtown and some of these infill, pushing

2639
03:10:20,920 --> 03:10:25,520
 the buildings up against the street makes it more walkable and inviting.

2640
03:10:25,520 --> 03:10:30,300
 The challenge with MN on a suburban corridor is you can't circulate the buildings.

2641
03:10:30,300 --> 03:10:33,080
 So where's your fire truck turn around, you know all those issues right.

2642
03:10:33,080 --> 03:10:41,480
 So I think Tina said at the very first meeting you know at some point we need you to trust

2643
03:10:41,480 --> 03:10:42,640
 your experts right.

2644
03:10:42,640 --> 03:10:47,600
 And so not to say that you guys aren't smart and do all this but the staff has worked through

2645
03:10:47,600 --> 03:10:53,320
 this and the SC underlying zoning was their recommendation to solve some of these issues.

2646
03:10:53,320 --> 03:10:59,580
 So without it, what essentially happens here is every one of these lots becomes its own

2647
03:10:59,580 --> 03:11:00,920
 PD.

2648
03:11:00,920 --> 03:11:08,040
 You'd have to look at essentially because of the PD modifications that would be required

2649
03:11:08,040 --> 03:11:14,320
 for anyone a lot to develop, you'd have seven basically individual PDs to consider.

2650
03:11:14,320 --> 03:11:17,680
 Which is what started all this in the first place.

2651
03:11:17,680 --> 03:11:24,600
 Instead we just knocked this out in one conversation.

2652
03:11:24,600 --> 03:11:29,120
 Seven public notices in addition to the two already done, you know four neighborhood meetings

2653
03:11:29,120 --> 03:11:32,000
 etc, etc.

2654
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:35,040
 We had two neighborhood meetings the first time around.

2655
03:11:35,040 --> 03:11:39,520
 We had no opposition from anybody that lived in the neighborhood.

2656
03:11:39,520 --> 03:11:43,760
 Much less 200 or 500 feet.

2657
03:11:43,760 --> 03:11:47,560
 And so then we've had two more since then.

2658
03:11:47,560 --> 03:11:51,480
 Teasley is a major suburban corridor and I thought this was kind of telling right.

2659
03:11:51,480 --> 03:11:55,000
 Six lanes or more through eight different cities.

2660
03:11:55,000 --> 03:11:59,160
 And so this isn't a neighborhood street right is my point.

2661
03:11:59,160 --> 03:12:05,360
 What's going to develop on a major suburban corridor, this is what this is what's going

2662
03:12:05,360 --> 03:12:06,360
 to happen.

2663
03:12:06,360 --> 03:12:08,520
 In fact that's what's already there.

2664
03:12:08,520 --> 03:12:17,520
 So if you look at Teasley and Wind River, you've got drive-through, drive-through, drive-through,

2665
03:12:17,520 --> 03:12:23,240
 retail, drive-through.

2666
03:12:23,240 --> 03:12:32,160
 Teasley Robinson Road, sea store gas, drive-through, storage, you get it.

2667
03:12:32,160 --> 03:12:39,960
 Teasley Hickory Creek, you know this is Kroger, this is Sprouts, this is Walgreens.

2668
03:12:39,960 --> 03:12:48,640
 One, two, three, four, five drive-throughs, drive-throughs across the street.

2669
03:12:48,640 --> 03:12:50,600
 And so here's the subject site right.

2670
03:12:50,600 --> 03:12:57,040
 Here's Walmart, automotive, retail, liquor.

2671
03:12:57,040 --> 03:13:03,160
 And so this is what goes on a suburban corridor on these types of corners.

2672
03:13:03,160 --> 03:13:09,200
 And what we attempted to do with the staff in the conversations was hear the staff of

2673
03:13:09,200 --> 03:13:10,200
 the neighborhood.

2674
03:13:10,200 --> 03:13:11,200
 Like what do you want to see there?

2675
03:13:11,200 --> 03:13:12,440
 What do you think people would have a problem with?

2676
03:13:12,440 --> 03:13:15,160
 And so we've gone through and we've eliminated.

2677
03:13:15,160 --> 03:13:18,440
 And in fact you know you guys all know that I had a conversation with Margie after the

2678
03:13:18,440 --> 03:13:20,160
 first meeting.

2679
03:13:20,160 --> 03:13:23,560
 I wanted to get her input, she's been doing this a long time, and so we've added other

2680
03:13:23,560 --> 03:13:24,560
 things.

2681
03:13:24,560 --> 03:13:30,600
 No automotive repair, minor or major, no fuel, etc. because I value the input of people that

2682
03:13:30,600 --> 03:13:34,660
 have been around a long time and seen a lot of this stuff.

2683
03:13:34,660 --> 03:13:40,780
 We had, again, four neighborhood meetings, nobody signed up for the third or the fourth.

2684
03:13:40,780 --> 03:13:41,780
 And I'll wrap up.

2685
03:13:41,780 --> 03:13:47,180
 You've already seen, I didn't know there, you saw me as Matt.

2686
03:13:47,180 --> 03:13:51,360
 We have people that are adjacent to the site here in support.

2687
03:13:51,360 --> 03:13:56,760
 Obviously the apartment complex here, you've got a big buffer in between the existing,

2688
03:13:56,760 --> 03:13:57,760
 which makes it pretty unique.

2689
03:13:57,760 --> 03:14:02,660
 If you look back up to some of these, Walmart, Kroger, Sprouts, a lot of these, I mean they're

2690
03:14:02,660 --> 03:14:03,920
 right up against the houses.

2691
03:14:03,920 --> 03:14:06,160
 We've got a really nice buffer.

2692
03:14:06,160 --> 03:14:11,040
 This is a huge drainage easement through here, so nothing can ever go there.

2693
03:14:11,040 --> 03:14:17,760
 And the fact that the only two people who responded of all these houses here are in

2694
03:14:17,760 --> 03:14:18,760
 favor.

2695
03:14:18,760 --> 03:14:23,240
 So in summary, obviously the uses are consistent with the master plan, they're also consistent

2696
03:14:23,240 --> 03:14:27,480
 with what's already built up and down this corridor.

2697
03:14:27,480 --> 03:14:32,720
 The staff's recommendation of the SC underlying zoning makes sense for a lot of reasons.

2698
03:14:32,720 --> 03:14:38,080
 The concerns from the first meeting seem to all be answered or addressed, in my opinion.

2699
03:14:38,080 --> 03:14:42,920
 We have no neighbors opposed, only neighbors in favor.

2700
03:14:42,920 --> 03:14:48,160
 And we would request your approval and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

2701
03:14:48,160 --> 03:14:49,160
 Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

2702
03:14:49,160 --> 03:14:51,520
 I do have a question.

2703
03:14:51,520 --> 03:14:59,040
 Regarding the fence that is part of the PD regulations that's going to be built on that,

2704
03:14:59,040 --> 03:15:05,400
 the track where there's residential crack, that'll be a fence happening there.

2705
03:15:05,400 --> 03:15:09,840
 Can that be constructed like before development happens or what is the plan for that?

2706
03:15:09,840 --> 03:15:15,400
 I would love to see it happen like at the beginning before anything happens, but.

2707
03:15:15,400 --> 03:15:16,400
 Sure.

2708
03:15:16,400 --> 03:15:20,280
 So that actually came from the first neighborhood meeting, this gentleman here, I don't recall

2709
03:15:20,280 --> 03:15:22,960
 his last name, Chris something.

2710
03:15:22,960 --> 03:15:29,080
 We've got this big buffer, right, of the drainage easement, which really is full of trees.

2711
03:15:29,080 --> 03:15:30,080
 So that'll all remain.

2712
03:15:30,080 --> 03:15:33,080
 But one of the things he said was, you know, in the winter I can actually hear the cars

2713
03:15:33,080 --> 03:15:35,720
 on Teasley when all the leaves fall, et cetera.

2714
03:15:35,720 --> 03:15:37,460
 What about a fence?

2715
03:15:37,460 --> 03:15:42,480
 And so I just said, I don't think anybody have a problem with that.

2716
03:15:42,480 --> 03:15:48,080
 I talked to the seller, which is who I represent, he won't be developing the sites, but I said,

2717
03:15:48,080 --> 03:15:52,740
 would you agree to this, which would mean anybody we sold a site to would be required

2718
03:15:52,740 --> 03:15:54,600
 to build a fence.

2719
03:15:54,600 --> 03:15:59,320
 And I said, I think we should make it a requirement that it's on the commercial side, right.

2720
03:15:59,320 --> 03:16:05,100
 So that all of the green space and that buffer is seen by the residential and not really

2721
03:16:05,100 --> 03:16:09,620
 to the benefit of the commercial because commercial tenants don't really care, right.

2722
03:16:09,620 --> 03:16:12,120
 It's back there, you see the top of the trees.

2723
03:16:12,120 --> 03:16:19,520
 So as I understand it, that would have to get built as a part of any commercial development

2724
03:16:19,520 --> 03:16:24,760
 that happened here and it would have to be built outside of the drainage easement on

2725
03:16:24,760 --> 03:16:26,560
 the commercial side.

2726
03:16:26,560 --> 03:16:29,920
 So I don't know that, I don't know that it could all be built at one time.

2727
03:16:29,920 --> 03:16:33,140
 So it's just going to be built piecemeal, though?

2728
03:16:33,140 --> 03:16:38,400
 Well, I mean, I guess that the staff could tell us, I don't know how, if you could go

2729
03:16:38,400 --> 03:16:43,240
 like, could you go get a permit just to build a fence on those two different properties

2730
03:16:43,240 --> 03:16:44,240
 prior to development?

2731
03:16:44,240 --> 03:16:45,240
 Okay.

2732
03:16:45,240 --> 03:16:46,240
 I'm not sure.

2733
03:16:46,240 --> 03:16:53,240
 But I would also expect, though, that in all likelihood, like those two lots are in contract.

2734
03:16:53,240 --> 03:16:57,400
 So in all likelihood, and they're just waiting for this to be completed because otherwise

2735
03:16:57,400 --> 03:17:02,800
 they're going to submit their own SUP or PD amendment request, whatever you call it.

2736
03:17:02,800 --> 03:17:07,320
 So I would expect that those two likely get developed on a very similar timeline.

2737
03:17:07,320 --> 03:17:11,600
 Obviously, we couldn't control that once they bought it.

2738
03:17:11,600 --> 03:17:12,600
 So I don't know how to answer.

2739
03:17:12,600 --> 03:17:16,400
 I'll get with staff on that and see.

2740
03:17:16,400 --> 03:17:26,720
 If it is the city's desire that that fence get built like all at once prior to any structures

2741
03:17:26,720 --> 03:17:31,180
 getting built, and the city can tell us how to do that, like, because maybe it's just

2742
03:17:31,180 --> 03:17:37,280
 a fence permit, then I'm sure my seller would go and just build the fence, right?

2743
03:17:37,280 --> 03:17:41,480
 And then just get reimbursed by the buyers as they come.

2744
03:17:41,480 --> 03:17:44,480
 And I don't think you'd have a problem with that.

2745
03:17:44,480 --> 03:17:45,480
 Okay.

2746
03:17:45,480 --> 03:17:46,480
 Thank you.

2747
03:17:46,480 --> 03:17:47,480
 Any other questions for?

2748
03:17:47,480 --> 03:17:48,480
 Okay.

2749
03:17:48,480 --> 03:17:49,480
 Thanks.

2750
03:17:49,480 --> 03:17:50,480
 Thank you.

2751
03:17:50,480 --> 03:17:56,440
 Mia or Tina, did you want to just jump in on my question or?

2752
03:17:56,440 --> 03:17:57,440
 Sure.

2753
03:17:57,440 --> 03:18:01,920
 I guess with respect to the fence, I think some of it's going to depend upon what type

2754
03:18:01,920 --> 03:18:02,920
 of fence it is.

2755
03:18:02,920 --> 03:18:11,160
 For example, if it's a masonry wall versus a wood fence, typically those screening devices

2756
03:18:11,160 --> 03:18:15,480
 get constructed at such time when each of the individual lots develop, because that's

2757
03:18:15,480 --> 03:18:20,440
 when all the construction activities happen, that's when the sites are graded.

2758
03:18:20,440 --> 03:18:24,440
 If this is something more structural in nature, like a masonry wall, then presumably if he's

2759
03:18:24,440 --> 03:18:28,200
 going to build it all at once, it would have substantial grading work already occurring

2760
03:18:28,200 --> 03:18:35,520
 on the site and getting the development of the site more prepped, if you will.

2761
03:18:35,520 --> 03:18:41,240
 I think the proposal to have the fencing installed prior to issuance of a CO is reasonable.

2762
03:18:41,240 --> 03:18:45,240
 Mia, what kind of screening is required in the PD?

2763
03:18:45,240 --> 03:18:51,040
 I seem to recall there's some point selection choices that might be available.

2764
03:18:51,040 --> 03:18:52,040
 Yeah.

2765
03:18:52,040 --> 03:18:56,800
 It just specifies that screening is required, because usually it's not a requirement.

2766
03:18:56,800 --> 03:19:01,520
 We have the buffers between commercial and residential, but it does not specifically

2767
03:19:01,520 --> 03:19:03,880
 require a wall or screen.

2768
03:19:03,880 --> 03:19:08,180
 It's a part of the points, and so this just requires a fence.

2769
03:19:08,180 --> 03:19:09,180
 Right.

2770
03:19:09,180 --> 03:19:15,160
 I know we're making it required because we're writing it into this PD, so we probably need

2771
03:19:15,160 --> 03:19:18,360
 to clarify what kind of fence are we building.

2772
03:19:18,360 --> 03:19:24,520
 I think we would, or the way it reads, it could be anything, right?

2773
03:19:24,520 --> 03:19:27,960
 What we're just saying, a fence shall be constructed.

2774
03:19:27,960 --> 03:19:32,760
 Per the specific section of the DDC.

2775
03:19:32,760 --> 03:19:37,080
 The materials that are permitted under that, the section 7.2.8.

2776
03:19:37,080 --> 03:19:43,160
 Whatever materials are offered, and I would trust that they would have to be the same.

2777
03:19:43,160 --> 03:19:48,600
 Whatever is decided when the first track develops.

2778
03:19:48,600 --> 03:19:51,960
 Unless you want that included in the plan development district, that could be.

2779
03:19:51,960 --> 03:19:55,440
 As of right now, what we did was we tried to rely upon the standards that are within

2780
03:19:55,440 --> 03:19:56,440
 the DDC.

2781
03:19:56,440 --> 03:20:00,880
 Obviously, the plan development district provides for a wider buffer, and I believe increased

2782
03:20:00,880 --> 03:20:05,760
 points that the applicant has to choose from, but we were relying upon the standards in

2783
03:20:05,760 --> 03:20:10,520
 the PD that any developer of the individual lots could choose from.

2784
03:20:10,520 --> 03:20:15,960
 Again, I guess the reason I'm ... I'm just trying to get with whatever was discussed

2785
03:20:15,960 --> 03:20:16,960
 at the neighborhood meeting.

2786
03:20:16,960 --> 03:20:18,440
 I wasn't there.

2787
03:20:18,440 --> 03:20:23,040
 This came as a result of the neighborhood meeting, so what are they anticipating is going ... Are

2788
03:20:23,040 --> 03:20:26,120
 they thinking it's a masonry wall fence, or ...

2789
03:20:26,120 --> 03:20:29,880
 To me, that'd be the applicant to defer.

2790
03:20:29,880 --> 03:20:30,880
 Yeah.

2791
03:20:30,880 --> 03:20:31,880
 Right.

2792
03:20:31,880 --> 03:20:32,880
 Yeah, I know.

2793
03:20:32,880 --> 03:20:33,880
 You obviously don't, but yeah.

2794
03:20:33,880 --> 03:20:40,920
 Mia was on the call on the video meeting, but my recollection was would you build a

2795
03:20:40,920 --> 03:20:47,320
 fence in addition to ... Because I think the answer was, well, screening would count.

2796
03:20:47,320 --> 03:20:48,320
 Right.

2797
03:20:48,320 --> 03:20:51,760
 He said, "Well, would you build a fence in addition to, because when the leaves fall,

2798
03:20:51,760 --> 03:20:52,760
 et cetera, et cetera?"

2799
03:20:52,760 --> 03:20:53,760
 So we said, "Yeah, sure.

2800
03:20:53,760 --> 03:20:54,760
 We will build a fence."

2801
03:20:54,760 --> 03:20:58,200
 Right, but no one discussed what that would look like or ...

2802
03:20:58,200 --> 03:21:01,480
 Because we knew that we would just have to ... We would have to abide by whatever the

2803
03:21:01,480 --> 03:21:03,280
 code says in terms of material.

2804
03:21:03,280 --> 03:21:04,280
 You can't use chain link.

2805
03:21:04,280 --> 03:21:08,520
 You can't use ... Right, so we would have to abide by whatever the code says.

2806
03:21:08,520 --> 03:21:13,160
 I don't know exactly what the code says, but whatever the code says we would have to use,

2807
03:21:13,160 --> 03:21:14,640
 we would use.

2808
03:21:14,640 --> 03:21:15,640
 Okay.

2809
03:21:15,640 --> 03:21:18,840
 So it wasn't discussed with the neighborhood, like what that would be?

2810
03:21:18,840 --> 03:21:19,840
 No.

2811
03:21:19,840 --> 03:21:20,840
 Okay.

2812
03:21:20,840 --> 03:21:21,840
 I'm not specific.

2813
03:21:21,840 --> 03:21:22,840
 I want these material.

2814
03:21:22,840 --> 03:21:23,840
 I don't think they cared.

2815
03:21:23,840 --> 03:21:24,840
 Right?

2816
03:21:24,840 --> 03:21:25,840
 It was just ... We know we've got this big green space.

2817
03:21:25,840 --> 03:21:28,320
 We'd like to have a fence in addition.

2818
03:21:28,320 --> 03:21:32,080
 I think they cared only because they mentioned it to you because when the leaves aren't there,

2819
03:21:32,080 --> 03:21:37,280
 they can hear the ... So a material that would buffer sound is probably what they want.

2820
03:21:37,280 --> 03:21:42,640
 But to be clear, what I mean by didn't care was they didn't say, "I want it built of

2821
03:21:42,640 --> 03:21:43,640
 stone."

2822
03:21:43,640 --> 03:21:44,640
 Oh, no, of course.

2823
03:21:44,640 --> 03:21:45,640
 Or a brick or whatever.

2824
03:21:45,640 --> 03:21:46,640
 Right.

2825
03:21:46,640 --> 03:21:47,640
 Like, "Would you build a fence?"

2826
03:21:47,640 --> 03:21:48,640
 Yes.

2827
03:21:48,640 --> 03:21:49,640
 Right.

2828
03:21:49,640 --> 03:21:50,640
 So I'm just trying to make sure I'm capturing what was said.

2829
03:21:50,640 --> 03:21:51,640
 Right.

2830
03:21:51,640 --> 03:21:57,160
 And we would abide by whatever the code says over and above.

2831
03:21:57,160 --> 03:21:59,520
 We couldn't just use the buffer, which is allowed.

2832
03:21:59,520 --> 03:22:00,520
 Sure, sure.

2833
03:22:00,520 --> 03:22:01,520
 We're agreeing to the buffer.

2834
03:22:01,520 --> 03:22:04,000
 In addition, we'd build a fence on the commercial side.

2835
03:22:04,000 --> 03:22:05,000
 Okay.

2836
03:22:05,000 --> 03:22:06,000
 Yeah.

2837
03:22:06,000 --> 03:22:09,160
 And I'm just trying to get clarification on what they're anticipating.

2838
03:22:09,160 --> 03:22:10,840
 But I guess we may never know that answer.

2839
03:22:10,840 --> 03:22:11,840
 But okay.

2840
03:22:11,840 --> 03:22:12,840
 Thank you.

2841
03:22:12,840 --> 03:22:13,840
 Commissioner Pruitt.

2842
03:22:13,840 --> 03:22:14,840
 Thank you, Chair.

2843
03:22:14,840 --> 03:22:20,680
 I just wanted to provide some context because we've had recent discussions in DCRC regarding

2844
03:22:20,680 --> 03:22:22,960
 fencing and buffering and that sort of thing.

2845
03:22:22,960 --> 03:22:26,880
 If you recall, there were some amendments that came through specifically for automotive

2846
03:22:26,880 --> 03:22:32,520
 uses and some screening requirements and that sort of thing.

2847
03:22:32,520 --> 03:22:39,640
 And through that discussion, we really kind of digested and dissected a two-page table

2848
03:22:39,640 --> 03:22:47,040
 in the code right now that describes which fences should be used in which conditions.

2849
03:22:47,040 --> 03:22:51,080
 And there was a lot of thought that went into that.

2850
03:22:51,080 --> 03:22:56,160
 I imagine many of your thoughts back on DCRC back in the day.

2851
03:22:56,160 --> 03:23:01,960
 And so I would just say that looking at the types of fences that would count as buffering

2852
03:23:01,960 --> 03:23:05,760
 so they would be opaque are perfectly applicable.

2853
03:23:05,760 --> 03:23:08,160
 They're not ugly things.

2854
03:23:08,160 --> 03:23:17,440
 So I'm fine with anything that staff thinks is reasonable without complicating the PD.

2855
03:23:17,440 --> 03:23:20,040
 But I would remind everyone that this is an overlay PD.

2856
03:23:20,040 --> 03:23:24,520
 And I think the intention of that was to have a lighter touch so it's easier to understand

2857
03:23:24,520 --> 03:23:25,520
 in the future.

2858
03:23:25,520 --> 03:23:26,520
 Understood.

2859
03:23:26,520 --> 03:23:27,520
 Thank you.

2860
03:23:27,520 --> 03:23:28,520
 Commissioner McDade.

2861
03:23:28,520 --> 03:23:29,520
 Thank you, Chair.

2862
03:23:29,520 --> 03:23:34,040
 I don't know if this question could be for me or the applicant.

2863
03:23:34,040 --> 03:23:39,720
 But when you made the comment, when the applicant made the comment about text dot is likely

2864
03:23:39,720 --> 03:23:44,800
 to put a light there, it's just something about their word likely.

2865
03:23:44,800 --> 03:23:49,400
 I mean, that's at their own discretion or it is something that they can do at any time

2866
03:23:49,400 --> 03:23:51,080
 or they don't have to do.

2867
03:23:51,080 --> 03:23:56,040
 It's just something -- I don't know how -- because I don't know how text dot works.

2868
03:23:56,040 --> 03:24:01,480
 But I know as far as the light goes, that's eight other places on Teasley that are even

2869
03:24:01,480 --> 03:24:05,720
 worse than Hunters Creek, that could actually take a light.

2870
03:24:05,720 --> 03:24:07,960
 But I don't understand the likely part.

2871
03:24:07,960 --> 03:24:10,560
 It's like, well, we'll do it, or we may not.

2872
03:24:10,560 --> 03:24:12,600
 There's just nothing written in stone there.

2873
03:24:12,600 --> 03:24:13,600
 Yeah.

2874
03:24:13,600 --> 03:24:16,280
 I'm going to bring up our transportation planner and speak to it a little bit.

2875
03:24:16,280 --> 03:24:20,000
 And then if the applicant wants to talk about any conversations that he and his team has

2876
03:24:20,000 --> 03:24:24,600
 had with text dot as to that response and bringing that forward, I can let him do that.

2877
03:24:24,600 --> 03:24:25,600
 Okay.

2878
03:24:25,600 --> 03:24:26,600
 I forgot about Karina.

2879
03:24:26,600 --> 03:24:27,600
 I'm sorry.

2880
03:24:27,600 --> 03:24:28,600
 I'm sad.

2881
03:24:28,600 --> 03:24:29,600
 Don't forget about me.

2882
03:24:29,600 --> 03:24:30,600
 I'm still here.

2883
03:24:30,600 --> 03:24:34,680
 I'm Karina Maldonado, transportation planner for the City of Denton.

2884
03:24:34,680 --> 03:24:41,080
 So in regards to the likelihood, that really is a text dot decision with the recommendation

2885
03:24:41,080 --> 03:24:45,680
 from staff after we review the text dot permit.

2886
03:24:45,680 --> 03:24:51,120
 Text dot does look at that signal warrant analysis to identify whether it's triggered

2887
03:24:51,120 --> 03:24:52,120
 or not.

2888
03:24:52,120 --> 03:24:54,300
 There's several factors that go into that.

2889
03:24:54,300 --> 03:24:59,000
 In addition to that, text dot will look at other things like the volume, the traffic

2890
03:24:59,000 --> 03:25:05,400
 volume, turn movements, pedestrian crossings, general safety concerns.

2891
03:25:05,400 --> 03:25:12,040
 So it's hard to predict what text dot would ultimately decide.

2892
03:25:12,040 --> 03:25:16,640
 We did have preliminary discussions with them about this site in particular to give them

2893
03:25:16,640 --> 03:25:21,460
 the heads up of, "Hey, this project's coming along, it's at P&Z."

2894
03:25:21,460 --> 03:25:25,520
 We have discussed it with them so they're aware that it's coming through, at least through

2895
03:25:25,520 --> 03:25:28,420
 the area office.

2896
03:25:28,420 --> 03:25:34,640
 Some concerns that they would have to address once that permit comes in is the request for

2897
03:25:34,640 --> 03:25:39,160
 traffic signals at other locations on Teasley and then the spacing between them.

2898
03:25:39,160 --> 03:25:45,000
 So considering the speed of the roadway, the amount of traffic, and of course what that

2899
03:25:45,000 --> 03:25:48,260
 would do to the facility, it being a primary arterial.

2900
03:25:48,260 --> 03:25:55,880
 So as you know, traffic signals would then kind of add to stop traffic.

2901
03:25:55,880 --> 03:25:57,720
 It could also facilitate increased flow.

2902
03:25:57,720 --> 03:26:01,620
 It depends on how that signalization is.

2903
03:26:01,620 --> 03:26:05,200
 I'm losing the word in my head, but they're coordinated.

2904
03:26:05,200 --> 03:26:08,440
 So there is no specific answer.

2905
03:26:08,440 --> 03:26:11,560
 It will be reviewed in the traffic impact analysis when it's updated.

2906
03:26:11,560 --> 03:26:14,920
 It still needs to go through the scoping process with staff.

2907
03:26:14,920 --> 03:26:23,600
 We'll look at that as staff in that process.

2908
03:26:23,600 --> 03:26:25,640
 It'll be a future decision.

2909
03:26:25,640 --> 03:26:30,360
 So that's why you're hearing the likelihood versus it will or will not happen because

2910
03:26:30,360 --> 03:26:33,180
 right now the city can't make that determination.

2911
03:26:33,180 --> 03:26:38,360
 And then I guess the last point I'll make is we have to review it from a proportionality

2912
03:26:38,360 --> 03:26:40,040
 standpoint.

2913
03:26:40,040 --> 03:26:47,280
 So the developer wouldn't be required by the city to put in the full signal.

2914
03:26:47,280 --> 03:26:51,800
 They would only be responsible for their proportional share of the cost, and then the city would

2915
03:26:51,800 --> 03:26:58,240
 have to identify the additional funds to then install it at that location if it were warranted

2916
03:26:58,240 --> 03:27:04,400
 and if TxDOT approved it, unless it was at the discretion of the developer to put in

2917
03:27:04,400 --> 03:27:06,400
 the full cost of that.

2918
03:27:06,400 --> 03:27:09,600
 But we as a city cannot ask for that beyond the proportional cost.

2919
03:27:09,600 --> 03:27:12,120
 So hopefully that answered that question.

2920
03:27:12,120 --> 03:27:13,120
 All right.

2921
03:27:13,120 --> 03:27:14,120
 Thank you.

2922
03:27:14,120 --> 03:27:21,880
 I'm happy to answer since I said it, because I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth.

2923
03:27:21,880 --> 03:27:23,120
 So I said it.

2924
03:27:23,120 --> 03:27:28,440
 So that was the result of after the first meeting and hearing the concerns, we went

2925
03:27:28,440 --> 03:27:34,600
 back and so we paid Kimberly Horne to go do an update on the traffic signal warrant, the

2926
03:27:34,600 --> 03:27:36,840
 TIA that we had done just for our site.

2927
03:27:36,840 --> 03:27:40,320
 But hearing from the gentleman across the street at Summit Oaks at the first meeting

2928
03:27:40,320 --> 03:27:45,800
 about the safety concerns coming out of that neighborhood, so I went and actually tried

2929
03:27:45,800 --> 03:27:48,320
 to pull out of that neighborhood to see, is it real?

2930
03:27:48,320 --> 03:27:51,800
 Because I don't want to say something to TxDOT that wasn't true.

2931
03:27:51,800 --> 03:27:54,400
 It really is true, like you can't see.

2932
03:27:54,400 --> 03:28:01,520
 And so I talked to some folks at TxDOT, and I said, this is a real issue, and I'm not

2933
03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:04,160
 sure if we meet the distance agreement between Hunter's Creek and Ryan.

2934
03:28:04,160 --> 03:28:05,160
 That's one question.

2935
03:28:05,160 --> 03:28:13,760
 And secondly, if it warrants, and we were able to say the commercial lots would pay

2936
03:28:13,760 --> 03:28:18,600
 for the signal, would you guys put it on the front end even before it all got built out

2937
03:28:18,600 --> 03:28:20,120
 because of this safety concern?

2938
03:28:20,120 --> 03:28:26,120
 So the comment that I got back was, it's likely that there's going to be a signal put somewhere

2939
03:28:26,120 --> 03:28:34,160
 over there north of Ryan Road because we are getting a lot of input between Summit, Teasley

2940
03:28:34,160 --> 03:28:39,560
 Trails, Ranchman, which is a huge outlet over there, and the construction that took so long

2941
03:28:39,560 --> 03:28:44,960
 over there, there's been a lot of information coming to them, I guess, from that HOA.

2942
03:28:44,960 --> 03:28:49,240
 And so the comment was, it's likely there's going to be one over there somewhere, either

2943
03:28:49,240 --> 03:28:56,440
 Ranchman or Hunter's Creek, because that's the two areas that line up both east and west

2944
03:28:56,440 --> 03:28:57,440
 across.

2945
03:28:57,440 --> 03:29:01,800
 So my likely comment was coming from that, but again, they're noncommittal, so I don't

2946
03:29:01,800 --> 03:29:06,600
 want to say we're confident it'll be here, but for the neighborhood's concerns, if we

2947
03:29:06,600 --> 03:29:10,920
 don't get it to Hunter's Creek, then it would be likely that they would get one at Ranchman.

2948
03:29:10,920 --> 03:29:12,920
 That's what I was trying to indicate.

2949
03:29:12,920 --> 03:29:13,920
 All right.

2950
03:29:13,920 --> 03:29:14,920
 Thank you.

2951
03:29:14,920 --> 03:29:15,920
 You bet.

2952
03:29:15,920 --> 03:29:16,920
 Anything else?

2953
03:29:16,920 --> 03:29:17,920
 Okay.

2954
03:29:17,920 --> 03:29:20,160
 Got a couple of cards here to speak.

2955
03:29:20,160 --> 03:29:21,160
 Michael Doranski?

2956
03:29:21,160 --> 03:29:22,160
 Good evening.

2957
03:29:22,160 --> 03:29:23,160
 Good evening.

2958
03:29:23,160 --> 03:29:24,160
 Thanks for your time.

2959
03:29:24,160 --> 03:29:34,160
 I have the property at 3924 TZ Lane, and first I want to say, I'm not opposed to commercial.

2960
03:29:34,160 --> 03:29:36,880
 This thing is going to be commercial over there.

2961
03:29:36,880 --> 03:29:40,920
 It's just a matter of what kind of commercial and what kind of review process it goes through

2962
03:29:40,920 --> 03:29:42,740
 for that commercial.

2963
03:29:42,740 --> 03:29:46,760
 And I think as everyone has sat through tonight, part of one of the issues where people were

2964
03:29:46,760 --> 03:29:51,720
 upset with the zoning that was done on that property earlier tonight and the zoning that

2965
03:29:51,720 --> 03:29:56,560
 was given out, and the previous planning zoning guy gets up here and talks and says, "That

2966
03:29:56,560 --> 03:30:02,200
 was not our intent when I voted on this," and the entire community out here are upset

2967
03:30:02,200 --> 03:30:03,200
 about it.

2968
03:30:03,200 --> 03:30:07,900
 And part of what that was is the review process, and these people, he's got two businesses

2969
03:30:07,900 --> 03:30:13,240
 already online that want to develop here, and if he says they're going to submit the

2970
03:30:13,240 --> 03:30:17,840
 SUP if it doesn't get approved, that's what I think they should do.

2971
03:30:17,840 --> 03:30:22,360
 The SUP is there for the protection of the neighborhood, so they can review each individual

2972
03:30:22,360 --> 03:30:23,360
 project.

2973
03:30:23,360 --> 03:30:29,580
 And as if you just give this first blanket overlay, I assume there will be more to follow.

2974
03:30:29,580 --> 03:30:34,640
 So whatever time may be saved, it's going to be more of these to follow as more development

2975
03:30:34,640 --> 03:30:36,440
 says, "Hey, I don't want to have all of my projects reviewed.

2976
03:30:36,440 --> 03:30:39,200
 I've already got two people lined up, but I don't want to present those.

2977
03:30:39,200 --> 03:30:44,440
 I just want to go ahead and just build those, and I don't have to worry about coming before

2978
03:30:44,440 --> 03:30:45,440
 this piece."

2979
03:30:45,440 --> 03:30:52,920
 And it's been proposed that you have the safety concerns and the things that come into those

2980
03:30:52,920 --> 03:30:53,920
 safety concerns.

2981
03:30:53,920 --> 03:30:55,920
 And I agree with Eric.

2982
03:30:55,920 --> 03:31:00,400
 If you don't put in the development, people won't come, but the stuff will get more expensive,

2983
03:31:00,400 --> 03:31:03,320
 and that is a very true statement.

2984
03:31:03,320 --> 03:31:06,320
 But the whole thing is this needs to be reviewed.

2985
03:31:06,320 --> 03:31:08,960
 And if you already have the stuff on the stuff, I don't know why it can't be reviewed.

2986
03:31:08,960 --> 03:31:10,960
 There's a school right across from this as well.

2987
03:31:10,960 --> 03:31:17,120
 Yes, the kids don't go to that school, but as was discussed last time, supposedly I guess

2988
03:31:17,120 --> 03:31:21,720
 it's a coffee and custard, which is I would assume is going to be pretty popular with

2989
03:31:21,720 --> 03:31:23,560
 that kind of area.

2990
03:31:23,560 --> 03:31:25,440
 You could still run into those type of issues.

2991
03:31:25,440 --> 03:31:28,760
 That speed limit over there is extremely fast.

2992
03:31:28,760 --> 03:31:32,280
 And I heard from someone tonight, it's like, "Well, we should have the safety stuff in

2993
03:31:32,280 --> 03:31:34,320
 place before you build this."

2994
03:31:34,320 --> 03:31:38,320
 And as Mr. McDade has said, "Hey, do we know we're getting the light?"

2995
03:31:38,320 --> 03:31:41,040
 No, we didn't say for sure, but it's very likely.

2996
03:31:41,040 --> 03:31:45,560
 But hey, that's the whole point is we're supposed to have the safety already in place.

2997
03:31:45,560 --> 03:31:51,120
 And if you continue to expand on giving these broader zonings without having to go through

2998
03:31:51,120 --> 03:31:56,280
 each individual process, things will go in there that maybe people didn't anticipate.

2999
03:31:56,280 --> 03:32:00,080
 Again, as Erica said, "Hey, we can put a big shopping center here, and you're not going

3000
03:32:00,080 --> 03:32:01,080
 to like it."

3001
03:32:01,080 --> 03:32:06,140
 And Mr. Smith said the same thing, "Hey, I could build a big shopping center, more cars

3002
03:32:06,140 --> 03:32:09,760
 can go in here, you may end up not liking the result."

3003
03:32:09,760 --> 03:32:14,720
 But as such, if you give the blanket overlay, it's going to continue where they don't have

3004
03:32:14,720 --> 03:32:15,720
 to seek the permission.

3005
03:32:15,720 --> 03:32:17,600
 They can just build it.

3006
03:32:17,600 --> 03:32:22,240
 And they don't have to seek the sub-permission because the overlay was given and they can

3007
03:32:22,240 --> 03:32:25,560
 just build it off of there.

3008
03:32:25,560 --> 03:32:29,000
 You know, I see a lot of mention of the traffic off of Teasley.

3009
03:32:29,000 --> 03:32:33,840
 Yes, it's a very high-trafficated road, but Ryan Road as well is going to see a ton of

3010
03:32:33,840 --> 03:32:35,520
 that traffic that comes through there.

3011
03:32:35,520 --> 03:32:40,040
 It is a two-lane road with a park and where all those neighborhoods come in, they actually

3012
03:32:40,040 --> 03:32:45,000
 kind of come out, go to that neighborhood, Walmart or whatnot, and then exit onto Teasley

3013
03:32:45,000 --> 03:32:48,440
 and make a left or a right.

3014
03:32:48,440 --> 03:32:52,640
 So I do feel like, it's not that I'm against the commercial development there, because

3015
03:32:52,640 --> 03:32:57,000
 I do believe it's going to be commercial, but what I am against is that they don't have

3016
03:32:57,000 --> 03:33:01,120
 to come and present to you and show you what they're going to put in there, how many cars

3017
03:33:01,120 --> 03:33:04,320
 are they going to have, what is the traffic study for this piece.

3018
03:33:04,320 --> 03:33:07,000
 And if we have this one, what other ones are they expecting off of here.

3019
03:33:07,000 --> 03:33:12,480
 And I think by removing that protection, you're just opening it up where what the people expected,

3020
03:33:12,480 --> 03:33:16,440
 just like they expected earlier tonight, to be on that piece of property is not necessarily

3021
03:33:16,440 --> 03:33:19,520
 what they envisioned off of there, because they can build it, because they don't have

3022
03:33:19,520 --> 03:33:21,880
 to seek the special sub for it.

3023
03:33:21,880 --> 03:33:22,960
 Thank you.

3024
03:33:22,960 --> 03:33:26,080
 Thank you very much.

3025
03:33:26,080 --> 03:33:29,720
 Next card I have is Nathan Toon.

3026
03:33:29,720 --> 03:33:33,200
 Good evening again.

3027
03:33:33,200 --> 03:33:38,920
 Good evening, Nathan Toon, 3201 Carmel Street, Denton, Texas.

3028
03:33:38,920 --> 03:33:44,280
 Carmel Street is located in Montecito, right in between Ryan Road and Teasley Lane.

3029
03:33:44,280 --> 03:33:48,440
 So this is my hood, if you will.

3030
03:33:48,440 --> 03:33:54,920
 The way I understand it, the base of the case here before us tonight is basically just changing

3031
03:33:54,920 --> 03:34:01,160
 the underlying zoning of the property from MN to SC.

3032
03:34:01,160 --> 03:34:08,480
 As some of you may know, I own a property in Denton that's zoned MN that basically I've

3033
03:34:08,480 --> 03:34:13,840
 become accustomed to the MN zoning and just by and large, the way it was explained to

3034
03:34:13,840 --> 03:34:21,200
 me is MN is intended to promote walkability in more of your mixed use areas, downtown

3035
03:34:21,200 --> 03:34:23,720
 areas.

3036
03:34:23,720 --> 03:34:25,240
 Teasley Lane is not that.

3037
03:34:25,240 --> 03:34:30,680
 Teasley Lane is a heavily vehicular trafficked area.

3038
03:34:30,680 --> 03:34:37,200
 And as a result, and one of the aspects of the MN zoning district that I think is problematic

3039
03:34:37,200 --> 03:34:44,680
 for vehicular areas is the requirement to build within 15 feet of the front of the property.

3040
03:34:44,680 --> 03:34:51,880
 I personally don't think that commercial properties on major roads should have buildings built

3041
03:34:51,880 --> 03:34:55,080
 so close to the front because it is dangerous.

3042
03:34:55,080 --> 03:35:01,600
 If you drive around the square, for example, if you're coming on Carroll, turn it on Hickory

3043
03:35:01,600 --> 03:35:05,680
 or any of those streets and you've got buildings that are built right up to the corner, you

3044
03:35:05,680 --> 03:35:08,040
 can't see around them.

3045
03:35:08,040 --> 03:35:15,720
 And so aside from the compatibility of the use, I don't think anybody has a problem with

3046
03:35:15,720 --> 03:35:18,960
 commercial uses on this property.

3047
03:35:18,960 --> 03:35:21,480
 That's what is all up and down this corridor.

3048
03:35:21,480 --> 03:35:27,080
 I just don't think MN should be the base zoning here because it's dangerous on heavily trafficked

3049
03:35:27,080 --> 03:35:28,080
 roads.

3050
03:35:28,080 --> 03:35:29,320
 Thank you.

3051
03:35:29,320 --> 03:35:33,560
 Thank you, Mr. Schoen.

3052
03:35:33,560 --> 03:35:34,560
 This is a public hearing.

3053
03:35:34,560 --> 03:35:35,960
 I don't have any other cards.

3054
03:35:35,960 --> 03:35:37,600
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak?

3055
03:35:37,600 --> 03:35:38,600
 Hello, Amy.

3056
03:35:38,600 --> 03:35:39,600
 I'll be quick.

3057
03:35:39,600 --> 03:35:41,920
 Amy Bissett, 109 North Elm.

3058
03:35:41,920 --> 03:35:47,620
 I just wanted to say that we were engaged by the seller, or I'm sorry, the current property

3059
03:35:47,620 --> 03:35:53,240
 owner, to coordinate and facilitate the neighborhood meetings that Mr. Johnson mentioned.

3060
03:35:53,240 --> 03:36:00,120
 And we heard all positives out of even the closest neighbors that were going to be coming

3061
03:36:00,120 --> 03:36:01,120
 in.

3062
03:36:01,120 --> 03:36:05,160
 And we did, when we extended the invite, we opened it up for the second round of meetings

3063
03:36:05,160 --> 03:36:07,440
 to all of Teasley Trails HOA.

3064
03:36:07,440 --> 03:36:11,320
 We contacted their board and their board pushed it out through their distribution lists and

3065
03:36:11,320 --> 03:36:16,600
 social media and we had no additional concerns raised from that.

3066
03:36:16,600 --> 03:36:22,280
 So just wanted to elaborate on that a little bit, that we did handle those neighborhood

3067
03:36:22,280 --> 03:36:26,000
 meetings on behalf of the property owner and that was the outcome.

3068
03:36:26,000 --> 03:36:28,520
 And it was with this current information, right?

3069
03:36:28,520 --> 03:36:32,040
 Which is updated slightly from the original meetings.

3070
03:36:32,040 --> 03:36:33,040
 Okay.

3071
03:36:33,040 --> 03:36:34,040
 Great.

3072
03:36:34,040 --> 03:36:35,040
 Thank you.

3073
03:36:35,040 --> 03:36:36,040
 Okay.

3074
03:36:36,040 --> 03:36:37,040
 Thank you.

3075
03:36:37,040 --> 03:36:38,040
 This is a public hearing.

3076
03:36:38,040 --> 03:36:40,200
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not?

3077
03:36:40,200 --> 03:36:42,360
 I don't think there's anyone else here.

3078
03:36:42,360 --> 03:36:46,920
 Okay, I will go ahead and close the public hearing and open the floor for a motion or

3079
03:36:46,920 --> 03:36:47,920
 discussion.

3080
03:36:47,920 --> 03:36:48,920
 Commissioner Pruitt.

3081
03:36:48,920 --> 03:36:50,800
 Thank you, Chair.

3082
03:36:50,800 --> 03:36:58,720
 I'll move approval with staff of the PDSC as presented.

3083
03:36:58,720 --> 03:37:02,240
 I think I appreciate the time and effort on this.

3084
03:37:02,240 --> 03:37:07,520
 I'm sorry that it took us a little bit longer than expected to get to the end.

3085
03:37:07,520 --> 03:37:15,000
 But I'll just clarify, I think, you know, at the initial hearing that we had, I had

3086
03:37:15,000 --> 03:37:16,000
 safety concerns.

3087
03:37:16,000 --> 03:37:17,680
 I still do.

3088
03:37:17,680 --> 03:37:24,640
 But under further reflection, I think that we did pass some transportation criteria manual

3089
03:37:24,640 --> 03:37:30,080
 updates that specify how TIAs should be handled.

3090
03:37:30,080 --> 03:37:36,560
 And though I'm nervous about how we are going to end up working with TxDOT here, I think

3091
03:37:36,560 --> 03:37:39,880
 it warrants giving everybody a shot.

3092
03:37:39,880 --> 03:37:43,520
 And I also appreciate the attendance zone map.

3093
03:37:43,520 --> 03:37:49,720
 I think we need to keep in mind that while I've heard the superintendent of DISD say

3094
03:37:49,720 --> 03:37:57,120
 that he is adamantly opposed to having attendance boundaries cross over those dangerous roads

3095
03:37:57,120 --> 03:38:01,160
 for that very reason, when you look in the rest of the city, it often happens as a result

3096
03:38:01,160 --> 03:38:05,560
 of development and there's just no way around it unless you're going to start drawing lines

3097
03:38:05,560 --> 03:38:08,520
 worse than our political boundaries.

3098
03:38:08,520 --> 03:38:12,200
 So I, you know, I'll trust the process.

3099
03:38:12,200 --> 03:38:16,920
 I'm nervous that eight years from now after more housing is built west of here, those

3100
03:38:16,920 --> 03:38:19,760
 districts move and something happens.

3101
03:38:19,760 --> 03:38:27,120
 But I think everybody's aligned on the goals and I'm satisfied with it, so thank you.

3102
03:38:27,120 --> 03:38:28,120
 >> Commissioner Smith.

3103
03:38:28,120 --> 03:38:31,800
 >> Being this is my first time, you'll see the project as presented.

3104
03:38:31,800 --> 03:38:34,360
 I live in that neighborhood and I drive down Ryan.

3105
03:38:34,360 --> 03:38:41,920
 I look at that ugly corner of what was a nasty pad-sided trailer park that is now going to

3106
03:38:41,920 --> 03:38:43,660
 be developed into something.

3107
03:38:43,660 --> 03:38:45,480
 We need commercial up and down Teasley.

3108
03:38:45,480 --> 03:38:49,280
 We have commercial sites up and down Teasley now that are accessible.

3109
03:38:49,280 --> 03:38:54,560
 I understand the traffic concerns up and down Ryan, but like I said, I ride that road every

3110
03:38:54,560 --> 03:38:56,120
 single day.

3111
03:38:56,120 --> 03:39:02,800
 I'm not concerned by safety or traffic issues here and if anything, I see commercial development

3112
03:39:02,800 --> 03:39:09,800
 at that corner being a way to help mitigate some of the some of the speeding and the going

3113
03:39:09,800 --> 03:39:13,440
 in and out will slow down some of the traffic that happens there on that thoroughfare.

3114
03:39:13,440 --> 03:39:15,880
 So with that, I second.

3115
03:39:15,880 --> 03:39:16,880
 >> Thank you.

3116
03:39:16,880 --> 03:39:20,560
 Got a first and a second for approval.

3117
03:39:20,560 --> 03:39:21,560
 Commissioner Villarreal.

3118
03:39:21,560 --> 03:39:27,200
 >> I appreciate the restrictions you're putting on the number of drive throughs on the development.

3119
03:39:27,200 --> 03:39:34,760
 At the same time, I still have the same safety concerns I had when this was last presented.

3120
03:39:34,760 --> 03:39:39,720
 I understand there have been positive conversations with TechStat, but considering nothing solidified

3121
03:39:39,720 --> 03:39:44,160
 at the moment, those concerns still exist.

3122
03:39:44,160 --> 03:39:50,160
 I have concerns with removing the SUP process in general for those three drive throughs

3123
03:39:50,160 --> 03:39:56,720
 and all the additional protections for the neighborhood to come and speak their mind

3124
03:39:56,720 --> 03:39:58,680
 on particular projects.

3125
03:39:58,680 --> 03:40:02,360
 At this time, I'm still a no on this project.

3126
03:40:02,360 --> 03:40:03,360
 >> Thank you.

3127
03:40:03,360 --> 03:40:05,200
 Is there any other discussion?

3128
03:40:05,200 --> 03:40:08,640
 I've got a first and a second for approval.

3129
03:40:08,640 --> 03:40:10,360
 I'll go ahead and say a few words.

3130
03:40:10,360 --> 03:40:17,320
 I asked for this reconsideration and did an extensive amount of deeper dive into the backup

3131
03:40:17,320 --> 03:40:23,440
 and a lot of research on the site, including multiple, multiple visits at various times,

3132
03:40:23,440 --> 03:40:28,500
 school times, not school times, drove through Teasley trails, drove Hunters Creek back and

3133
03:40:28,500 --> 03:40:31,240
 forth every which way.

3134
03:40:31,240 --> 03:40:35,440
 What I didn't realize at the beginning when I heard this the first time was how messy

3135
03:40:35,440 --> 03:40:41,400
 the code is right now, and that was another meeting I had with staff to understand exactly

3136
03:40:41,400 --> 03:40:42,400
 how messy it is right now.

3137
03:40:42,400 --> 03:40:50,640
 We've got these NRMU uses because they were codified in place to where we have to abide

3138
03:40:50,640 --> 03:40:55,360
 by those, but we rezoned it to MN with the new code, and so now we're dealing with those

3139
03:40:55,360 --> 03:41:06,240
 design standards, which absolutely do this and makes this really difficult to develop.

3140
03:41:06,240 --> 03:41:10,600
 With the research that I've done with knowing these kids, that was one of the first things

3141
03:41:10,600 --> 03:41:15,200
 I went to do was the next day, went to school time, realized there's not a crossing garden.

3142
03:41:15,200 --> 03:41:21,700
 It's like, hey, I don't think these kids do cross Teasley, which is great.

3143
03:41:21,700 --> 03:41:23,960
 Obviously we know a traffic signal is needed.

3144
03:41:23,960 --> 03:41:25,840
 I live in the area.

3145
03:41:25,840 --> 03:41:29,800
 We know it's needed, and it will happen.

3146
03:41:29,800 --> 03:41:35,040
 Obviously none of us can ever say with Tx.1 that's going to happen.

3147
03:41:35,040 --> 03:41:40,520
 I think with the way this PD is built, we've added some extra protections of certain types

3148
03:41:40,520 --> 03:41:50,240
 of developments that won't happen, which protects the neighborhood, which was my biggest concern.

3149
03:41:50,240 --> 03:41:58,400
 In looking at this again and with these new clarifications and protections, and then in

3150
03:41:58,400 --> 03:42:08,240
 engaging with the neighbors, everybody was in support that we got written comment on,

3151
03:42:08,240 --> 03:42:11,280
 was in support, well, I don't know if they said they were in support.

3152
03:42:11,280 --> 03:42:12,600
 They weren't against the project.

3153
03:42:12,600 --> 03:42:14,760
 They were wanting a traffic light.

3154
03:42:14,760 --> 03:42:18,180
 Every single one of those emails said the same thing.

3155
03:42:18,180 --> 03:42:20,240
 We don't have control over that.

3156
03:42:20,240 --> 03:42:22,740
 The developer doesn't have control over that.

3157
03:42:22,740 --> 03:42:27,320
 When things do develop here, it's going to happen, and it may not even take that long.

3158
03:42:27,320 --> 03:42:33,200
 Maybe it will happen even prior to that because of the Summit Oaks issue.

3159
03:42:33,200 --> 03:42:35,800
 I think that's all I have to say on that.

3160
03:42:35,800 --> 03:42:40,920
 Is there any other discussion before we take a vote?

3161
03:42:40,920 --> 03:42:50,820
 Let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

3162
03:42:50,820 --> 03:42:55,040
 That motion carries 5-2.

3163
03:42:55,040 --> 03:42:59,800
 That will move us to item 5C, Z23-0004.

3164
03:42:59,800 --> 03:43:06,280
 I will call Julie Wyatt up for that and open the public hearing.

3165
03:43:06,280 --> 03:43:08,120
 Good evening.

3166
03:43:08,120 --> 03:43:13,680
 Let me pull up my presentation.

3167
03:43:13,680 --> 03:43:17,800
 Here we go.

3168
03:43:17,800 --> 03:43:18,800
 Okay.

3169
03:43:18,800 --> 03:43:19,800
 Hi.

3170
03:43:19,800 --> 03:43:21,680
 Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner with the City of Denton.

3171
03:43:21,680 --> 03:43:28,800
 I am presenting Z23-0004 Camelot to you this evening.

3172
03:43:28,800 --> 03:43:33,080
 We usually start with the request slide, but I'm going to turn it a little bit tonight

3173
03:43:33,080 --> 03:43:38,040
 and talk about the history because I think that's informative for this property.

3174
03:43:38,040 --> 03:43:42,440
 The subject property is located in the north side of town.

3175
03:43:42,440 --> 03:43:47,960
 It is north of Hercules and just west of Stewart, so it's at that intersection.

3176
03:43:47,960 --> 03:43:51,880
 It was originally plotted in 1979 with residential lots.

3177
03:43:51,880 --> 03:43:56,000
 It was developed with four plexes and a couple of single-family homes, which was consistent

3178
03:43:56,000 --> 03:43:57,400
 with the zoning at that time.

3179
03:43:57,400 --> 03:44:02,300
 At that time, the zoning was multifamily residential, which was multifamily, I believe, capped it

3180
03:44:02,300 --> 03:44:07,360
 at two stories.

3181
03:44:07,360 --> 03:44:12,520
 Since then, we have updated our development regulations twice, once with the Denton Development

3182
03:44:12,520 --> 03:44:16,440
 Code in 2002 and then again in 2019.

3183
03:44:16,440 --> 03:44:22,940
 With both of those, it essentially rezoned the property from that multifamily residential

3184
03:44:22,940 --> 03:44:28,680
 to neighborhood residential three in 2002 and then residential three that transitioned

3185
03:44:28,680 --> 03:44:36,160
 in 2019, rendering those existing four plexes nonconforming.

3186
03:44:36,160 --> 03:44:38,760
 This was brought to our attention at the end of last year.

3187
03:44:38,760 --> 03:44:42,720
 We had one of the property owners come in for a pre-application.

3188
03:44:42,720 --> 03:44:47,880
 They wanted to convert one of the couple of single-family dwellings on the street to a

3189
03:44:47,880 --> 03:44:53,920
 duplex and we said, "Oh, that is not permitted, nor are the four plexes that are existing

3190
03:44:53,920 --> 03:44:56,120
 permitted as well."

3191
03:44:56,120 --> 03:44:57,800
 That's how this is coming to you tonight.

3192
03:44:57,800 --> 03:45:04,440
 It's actually a city-initiated rezoning, which is not something we do very often, but that

3193
03:45:04,440 --> 03:45:09,000
 was the genesis of tonight's meeting.

3194
03:45:09,000 --> 03:45:13,560
 These uses that were rendered nonconforming are now subject to Section 1.5.

3195
03:45:13,560 --> 03:45:18,260
 We talked about nonconformities in our work session, but essentially if one of those structures

3196
03:45:18,260 --> 03:45:25,720
 was destroyed by more than 50%, they could not be rebuilt.

3197
03:45:25,720 --> 03:45:27,440
 Now we'll get to the request.

3198
03:45:27,440 --> 03:45:37,400
 We are, the city is proposing to rezone the 6.52 acres from the existing residential three

3199
03:45:37,400 --> 03:45:39,600
 to residential six.

3200
03:45:39,600 --> 03:45:43,720
 Residential six allows a variety of residential uses that we'll talk about.

3201
03:45:43,720 --> 03:45:49,160
 The purpose of this is to align the zoning with those existing uses to provide certainty

3202
03:45:49,160 --> 03:45:54,440
 for those property owners who've invested in those lots, as well as the residents of

3203
03:45:54,440 --> 03:46:01,360
 those four plexes, and to allow and to encourage continued investment in these properties.

3204
03:46:01,360 --> 03:46:05,640
 This is a vibrant neighborhood and to provide that additional investment.

3205
03:46:05,640 --> 03:46:09,640
 You can see on your screen we've got the subject property here.

3206
03:46:09,640 --> 03:46:17,480
 As it currently looks today, the previous screen had a aerial from 1982, and what it

3207
03:46:17,480 --> 03:46:19,280
 looks like today.

3208
03:46:19,280 --> 03:46:27,840
 The existing zoning shows the yellow there in red, and then the proposed zoning would

3209
03:46:27,840 --> 03:46:33,280
 change the color in the map to this tan color, and allow that transition as you can see from

3210
03:46:33,280 --> 03:46:40,960
 that R7 at the intersection to then the proposed R6, and that would transition to the R4 to

3211
03:46:40,960 --> 03:46:44,000
 the north and west of the site.

3212
03:46:44,000 --> 03:46:46,960
 The first thing we always look at is the comprehensive plan.

3213
03:46:46,960 --> 03:46:51,680
 The future land use designation for the subject property is low residential.

3214
03:46:51,680 --> 03:46:56,440
 The proposed R6 actually allows densities that are greater than what we typically see

3215
03:46:56,440 --> 03:46:57,720
 in low residential.

3216
03:46:57,720 --> 03:47:03,260
 Low residential is up to five dwelling units per acre, but the future land use map is just

3217
03:47:03,260 --> 03:47:06,480
 one analysis point when it comes to the comprehensive plan.

3218
03:47:06,480 --> 03:47:10,840
 We want to look at lots of different parts of the comprehensive plan, and this request

3219
03:47:10,840 --> 03:47:13,640
 does serve other goals within that plan.

3220
03:47:13,640 --> 03:47:17,760
 One, it's consistent with the sound growth principles that are outlined in the overall

3221
03:47:17,760 --> 03:47:21,920
 vision statement, things like diverse housing choice, compact development.

3222
03:47:21,920 --> 03:47:27,640
 This is an existing neighborhood, as well as neighborhood protection.

3223
03:47:27,640 --> 03:47:35,720
 Once again, keeping that reinvestment in our previously developed parts of our town.

3224
03:47:35,720 --> 03:47:40,800
 It also serves for our housing and neighborhood section, that it provides that variety of

3225
03:47:40,800 --> 03:47:43,400
 housing types.

3226
03:47:43,400 --> 03:47:47,880
 And then infill, this is an existing area that is being used, and so we want to make

3227
03:47:47,880 --> 03:47:51,880
 sure that there's continued reinvestment.

3228
03:47:51,880 --> 03:47:54,560
 We also look at impacts to surrounding property.

3229
03:47:54,560 --> 03:48:00,400
 Now apart from that one property, the single-family dwelling that would like to convert to a duplex,

3230
03:48:00,400 --> 03:48:06,360
 we are not aware of any other redevelopment proposed for the area.

3231
03:48:06,360 --> 03:48:10,960
 Really what we're looking at is not necessarily redevelopment, but in the event that the property

3232
03:48:10,960 --> 03:48:18,000
 redeveloped, we wanted to do that mental exercise to see, well, what could those impacts be?

3233
03:48:18,000 --> 03:48:21,720
 R3 and R6, they do have different residential uses.

3234
03:48:21,720 --> 03:48:25,280
 R6, of course, allows that different variety of residential uses.

3235
03:48:25,280 --> 03:48:31,280
 Not only single-family, but townhome, duplex, triplex, and fourplex does not permit multi-family.

3236
03:48:31,280 --> 03:48:36,480
 We felt like R6 really wasn't introducing any new residential type uses to the area.

3237
03:48:36,480 --> 03:48:41,560
 It really was consistent with what was there, and it was the most surgical precision that

3238
03:48:41,560 --> 03:48:43,440
 we could get with the zoning.

3239
03:48:43,440 --> 03:48:49,840
 Furthermore, if any other properties were to redevelop on that site, if somebody said,

3240
03:48:49,840 --> 03:48:54,080
 "Hey, now I'm just going to scrape the lot and redevelop it," they would have to conform

3241
03:48:54,080 --> 03:48:59,200
 to all of our current design standards, which are much different than they were in the '80s.

3242
03:48:59,200 --> 03:49:01,200
 Street trees would have to be installed.

3243
03:49:01,200 --> 03:49:06,000
 They would have to put in sidewalk, landscaping, lot tree, parking.

3244
03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:10,480
 We'd have to have two parking spaces per dwelling, and they would have to be to the side or rear

3245
03:49:10,480 --> 03:49:13,480
 of the property.

3246
03:49:13,480 --> 03:49:19,560
 Then site design, they would have to meet all those architectural requirements.

3247
03:49:19,560 --> 03:49:26,080
 We also, as we were thinking through this and thinking through the staff analysis, we

3248
03:49:26,080 --> 03:49:28,520
 just thought through those non-conforming issues.

3249
03:49:28,520 --> 03:49:29,960
 I won't read all of this to you.

3250
03:49:29,960 --> 03:49:33,920
 I think it was emailed to you, and I apologize, there were a couple of spelling errors.

3251
03:49:33,920 --> 03:49:37,800
 I typed it really quickly, so I apologize.

3252
03:49:37,800 --> 03:49:42,360
 There are those differences in the residential uses, and as I think we've kind of talked

3253
03:49:42,360 --> 03:49:48,220
 about that currently those fourplexes are non-conforming.

3254
03:49:48,220 --> 03:49:53,000
 This proposed rezoning would not impact those existing property owners if they left it in

3255
03:49:53,000 --> 03:50:00,080
 place, so a rezoning wouldn't require them to go out and make those improvements consistent

3256
03:50:00,080 --> 03:50:01,160
 with the current code.

3257
03:50:01,160 --> 03:50:06,120
 That would only be if they redeveloped a lot.

3258
03:50:06,120 --> 03:50:10,420
 As far as the current zoning, those existing uses can remain.

3259
03:50:10,420 --> 03:50:15,640
 I think where the challenges come in is that they can't make those substantial improvements

3260
03:50:15,640 --> 03:50:21,480
 to the property, make those structural changes, or redevelop if something were to happen to

3261
03:50:21,480 --> 03:50:26,920
 one of their properties.

3262
03:50:26,920 --> 03:50:33,840
 If one of those property owners did want to renovate or rebuild after some sort of natural

3263
03:50:33,840 --> 03:50:38,200
 disaster that would happen, they wouldn't be able to do that.

3264
03:50:38,200 --> 03:50:41,900
 What they would have to do is seek one of those remedies that we talked about in work

3265
03:50:41,900 --> 03:50:46,120
 session and likely would be a rezoning like what we're doing tonight, and it would require

3266
03:50:46,120 --> 03:50:52,300
 them to make application with the city and pay those fees and post those signs.

3267
03:50:52,300 --> 03:50:57,860
 That's really why we're coming today is to try to forestall that.

3268
03:50:57,860 --> 03:50:59,400
 Public outreach was done.

3269
03:50:59,400 --> 03:51:02,960
 A newspaper property was posted, mail responses.

3270
03:51:02,960 --> 03:51:09,640
 The city also held two neighborhood meetings.

3271
03:51:09,640 --> 03:51:11,040
 I did want to let you know.

3272
03:51:11,040 --> 03:51:16,520
 We have received substantial opposition from property owners on Camelot, such that there

3273
03:51:16,520 --> 03:51:22,880
 is 33% opposition and which will require a supermajority approval if it were to be approved

3274
03:51:22,880 --> 03:51:26,840
 at council.

3275
03:51:26,840 --> 03:51:31,680
 Based upon the criteria for approval and that non-conforming condition, staff does recommend

3276
03:51:31,680 --> 03:51:35,520
 approval of the request as it does comply with the criteria for approval.

3277
03:51:35,520 --> 03:51:37,480
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

3278
03:51:37,480 --> 03:51:40,480
 Thank you, Julie.

3279
03:51:40,480 --> 03:51:50,160
 Do you have any idea why the opposition ... I mean, was it just a not understanding what

3280
03:51:50,160 --> 03:51:56,360
 exactly was happening or you could ... I mean, did you address any concerns that they had

3281
03:51:56,360 --> 03:51:57,360
 or ...?

3282
03:51:57,360 --> 03:52:01,120
 With the first neighborhood meeting, we had two property owners.

3283
03:52:01,120 --> 03:52:04,000
 Those two property owners are in opposition to the request.

3284
03:52:04,000 --> 03:52:10,320
 I talked to them and we talked through it about what could happen.

3285
03:52:10,320 --> 03:52:16,360
 There was a concern that they would have to modify their cart service to a dumpster and

3286
03:52:16,360 --> 03:52:21,560
 I was like, "This would not require you to make any changes to what you're doing now."

3287
03:52:21,560 --> 03:52:32,520
 I haven't been given really clear reasons as to why the objection really was there.

3288
03:52:32,520 --> 03:52:37,440
 Then we had an additional neighborhood meeting after we had received all of these opposition.

3289
03:52:37,440 --> 03:52:39,840
 Tina may have other thoughts.

3290
03:52:39,840 --> 03:52:44,600
 We really didn't ... We had other community members or property owners attend that and

3291
03:52:44,600 --> 03:52:53,200
 they asked a lot of questions, but no real solid reasons as to why there was an opposition.

3292
03:52:53,200 --> 03:52:55,360
 I would agree.

3293
03:52:55,360 --> 03:53:02,480
 We tried pulling it out and asking a series of questions and understandings, but it was

3294
03:53:02,480 --> 03:53:03,680
 not clear.

3295
03:53:03,680 --> 03:53:10,120
 One of the property owners, given his questions, he seemed to understand the challenges of

3296
03:53:10,120 --> 03:53:15,480
 the existing zoning and how that might affect property owners, but he didn't come out and

3297
03:53:15,480 --> 03:53:17,680
 say, "I'm in support or in opposition."

3298
03:53:17,680 --> 03:53:20,960
 He just seemed to have a better understanding, but two of the other property owners that

3299
03:53:20,960 --> 03:53:29,240
 were in attendance, yeah, they did not voice if they were opposed or ...

3300
03:53:29,240 --> 03:53:30,240
 Anything specific?

3301
03:53:30,240 --> 03:53:33,240
 Yeah, nothing specific.

3302
03:53:33,240 --> 03:53:36,000
 Thank you for answering that.

3303
03:53:36,000 --> 03:53:39,560
 Any other questions for staff right now?

3304
03:53:39,560 --> 03:53:40,560
 No?

3305
03:53:40,560 --> 03:53:41,560
 Okay.

3306
03:53:41,560 --> 03:53:42,560
 This is a public hearing.

3307
03:53:42,560 --> 03:53:48,080
 I don't have any cards and I don't have anyone here wishing to speak, so I will close the

3308
03:53:48,080 --> 03:53:52,240
 public hearing and open the floor for a motion or discussion.

3309
03:53:52,240 --> 03:53:53,240
 Commissioner Smith.

3310
03:53:53,240 --> 03:53:55,120
 Make a motion to approve.

3311
03:53:55,120 --> 03:53:56,120
 Commissioner Cole.

3312
03:53:56,120 --> 03:53:57,120
 Second.

3313
03:53:57,120 --> 03:53:59,480
 We've got a first and a second for approval.

3314
03:53:59,480 --> 03:54:00,480
 Commissioner Pruitt.

3315
03:54:00,480 --> 03:54:01,480
 Thank you, Chair.

3316
03:54:01,480 --> 03:54:09,600
 I want to say I'm almost as happy to eliminate nonconformities as other officials that I've

3317
03:54:09,600 --> 03:54:17,300
 heard are happy to issue refunding bonds.

3318
03:54:17,300 --> 03:54:18,300
 It's a big need.

3319
03:54:18,300 --> 03:54:23,480
 There's a lot of places pigeonholed and pocketed throughout Denton because we have a rich history

3320
03:54:23,480 --> 03:54:26,600
 and I'm glad to see this coming forward, so thank you.

3321
03:54:26,600 --> 03:54:27,600
 Thank you.

3322
03:54:27,600 --> 03:54:28,600
 Commissioner Villarreal.

3323
03:54:28,600 --> 03:54:31,720
 Yeah, I'm going to be in support of the motion.

3324
03:54:31,720 --> 03:54:38,080
 It is concerning that there is 33% opposition and we don't really know why they're opposed,

3325
03:54:38,080 --> 03:54:44,320
 but not knowing that, I will be in support of the motion to remove the nonconformity.

3326
03:54:44,320 --> 03:54:46,440
 Yeah, thanks.

3327
03:54:46,440 --> 03:54:51,680
 Yeah, it almost seems like we're doing the property owners a favor, honestly, by this

3328
03:54:51,680 --> 03:54:57,120
 because we'd be keeping them from having to rezone the property themselves if something

3329
03:54:57,120 --> 03:55:03,840
 were to happen to their property and they would want to rebuild what is currently there.

3330
03:55:03,840 --> 03:55:09,480
 The entire street, except for a couple of single-family homes, is all a couple of duplexes

3331
03:55:09,480 --> 03:55:13,880
 and then mainly triplexes and fourplexes.

3332
03:55:13,880 --> 03:55:20,080
 Yeah, I commend staff on bringing this forward, honestly, because I love to clean up things

3333
03:55:20,080 --> 03:55:21,080
 that don't make sense.

3334
03:55:21,080 --> 03:55:26,280
 You know that with our zoning and this definitely seems to do that.

3335
03:55:26,280 --> 03:55:32,640
 I wish that, and we have letters, I know that say opposed, but there's nothing attached

3336
03:55:32,640 --> 03:55:33,640
 to them.

3337
03:55:33,640 --> 03:55:41,040
 And so I feel like it might be confusion or fear of change or what, but yeah, it's really

3338
03:55:41,040 --> 03:55:45,120
 more of a mistake that we're clearing up, I think, on our part because it probably should

3339
03:55:45,120 --> 03:55:49,520
 have never transitioned to R3 to begin with when we went to the new code.

3340
03:55:49,520 --> 03:55:54,080
 So yeah, I think this cleans up a much needed thing.

3341
03:55:54,080 --> 03:56:05,000
 Seeing no other discussion, let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.

3342
03:56:05,000 --> 03:56:07,440
 That motion carries 7-0.

3343
03:56:07,440 --> 03:56:12,640
 That will take us to our Planning and Zoning Commission Project Matrix, and I will give

3344
03:56:12,640 --> 03:56:14,520
 the floor to Tina.

3345
03:56:14,520 --> 03:56:19,880
 Thank you, Chair Ellis.

3346
03:56:19,880 --> 03:56:28,120
 So several items here, I promised Ron I would make some announcements regarding some upcoming

3347
03:56:28,120 --> 03:56:33,200
 activities that the commission may be participating in and interested in.

3348
03:56:33,200 --> 03:56:39,480
 So first of all, just a few reminders, we have this for the Northeast Area Plan.

3349
03:56:39,480 --> 03:56:46,320
 We have the Strategic Foresight Workshop that's this Saturday at 9 o'clock a.m. at the Development

3350
03:56:46,320 --> 03:56:51,560
 Services Building, so I know some of you have agreed to participate in that, so just a friendly

3351
03:56:51,560 --> 03:56:54,400
 reminder for that and for anybody else who may be listening.

3352
03:56:54,400 --> 03:57:01,200
 I know we have some residents within the Northeast Area that were also planning to attend that.

3353
03:57:01,200 --> 03:57:06,440
 You also have been, or two workshops have been added to your calendar, joint workshops

3354
03:57:06,440 --> 03:57:09,400
 as it relates to the Northeast Area Plan.

3355
03:57:09,400 --> 03:57:14,520
 One will be on August 1st at 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., so we'll do a lunch joint meeting with

3356
03:57:14,520 --> 03:57:16,160
 City Council.

3357
03:57:16,160 --> 03:57:22,080
 The purpose of that meeting at that time, we will be discussing some of the draft recommendations

3358
03:57:22,080 --> 03:57:26,640
 that will be presented as part of the Northeast Area Plan and obtain your input.

3359
03:57:26,640 --> 03:57:32,440
 Then we will have a second joint meeting on October 17th, again at 11 a.m. from 1 p.m.,

3360
03:57:32,440 --> 03:57:41,480
 joint meeting with Council to review the draft document and before, or to review the draft

3361
03:57:41,480 --> 03:57:45,480
 document before we initiate the adoption process through a formal public hearing.

3362
03:57:45,480 --> 03:57:50,080
 So similar to what we did with the Comprehensive Plan, if you recall in the Mobility Plan when

3363
03:57:50,080 --> 03:57:54,400
 we went through that adoption process, so we had some joint sessions with Council, but

3364
03:57:54,400 --> 03:57:58,400
 really one the opportunity for the two bodies to be able to work together and review any

3365
03:57:58,400 --> 03:58:02,680
 of the content that's being presented before we move into that adoption phase in case there's

3366
03:58:02,680 --> 03:58:08,200
 any additional direction that may be provided by PNZ and Council before we initiate that

3367
03:58:08,200 --> 03:58:09,200
 particular process.

3368
03:58:09,200 --> 03:58:12,840
 So that's all related to Northeast.

3369
03:58:12,840 --> 03:58:13,840
 Southeast Denton.

3370
03:58:13,840 --> 03:58:20,240
 So Southeast Denton, we're continuing with really one of our first major public engagement

3371
03:58:20,240 --> 03:58:26,520
 listening sessions and so this week has been a big PR push and Julie's been our project

3372
03:58:26,520 --> 03:58:31,200
 manager with assistance from me on that as well, and so in case you're interested or

3373
03:58:31,200 --> 03:58:35,960
 if you know folks that are interested, by all means please do encourage them to participate

3374
03:58:35,960 --> 03:58:38,880
 in what we're referring to as our listening sessions.

3375
03:58:38,880 --> 03:58:42,640
 Those listening sessions will be with our consultant team.

3376
03:58:42,640 --> 03:58:46,520
 Staff will not be participating in those other than making sure the room's set up and any

3377
03:58:46,520 --> 03:58:50,560
 food delivered or snacks, things of that nature, but really this is going to be led by our

3378
03:58:50,560 --> 03:58:56,440
 consultants because we want our consultant team to hear directly from folks that are

3379
03:58:56,440 --> 03:59:00,800
 interested in the Southeast Denton area plan, and so really these are geared towards listening

3380
03:59:00,800 --> 03:59:01,800
 sessions.

3381
03:59:01,800 --> 03:59:07,520
 So we have one that's Wednesday evening, April 19th, it starts at 6 p.m. scheduled till 8.

3382
03:59:07,520 --> 03:59:11,440
 That's at the American Legion Hall, and that's April 19th.

3383
03:59:11,440 --> 03:59:16,280
 Then we have another one that is Thursday, April 20th at the MLK Junior Recreation Center.

3384
03:59:16,280 --> 03:59:20,120
 That one's actually earlier in the day, so that one's at 11 a.m.

3385
03:59:20,120 --> 03:59:25,640
 We have one then scheduled Thursday evening, again at the MLK Recreation Center.

3386
03:59:25,640 --> 03:59:27,040
 That one will be at 6 p.m.

3387
03:59:27,040 --> 03:59:31,140
 So again, you have two options on that Thursday, 11 a.m. and 6 p.m.

3388
03:59:31,140 --> 03:59:37,640
 And then we are doing a virtual meeting Friday, April 21st at 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.

3389
03:59:37,640 --> 03:59:42,720
 And lastly, we will wrap up with our listening sessions Saturday, April 22nd at 10 a.m. to

3390
03:59:42,720 --> 03:59:44,160
 noon at the American Legion Hall.

3391
03:59:44,160 --> 03:59:49,160
 So we've got one, two, three, four, five opportunities for folks that are interested in the Southeast

3392
03:59:49,160 --> 03:59:52,160
 Denton area plan and wanting to provide us input.

3393
03:59:52,160 --> 03:59:56,160
 So really trying to utilize a variety of resources.

3394
03:59:56,160 --> 03:59:59,640
 Mailed invitations have gone out, utilizing social media pushes as well, announcements

3395
03:59:59,640 --> 04:00:03,640
 like this, passing word of mouth if you know people that are interested.

3396
04:00:03,640 --> 04:00:08,840
 So trying to do all we can to be able to help folks learn about those listening sessions

3397
04:00:08,840 --> 04:00:16,920
 because really that really starts the input process on the Southeast Denton area plan.

3398
04:00:16,920 --> 04:00:22,160
 In terms of zoning and development case activity, since the last time the Planning and Zoning

3399
04:00:22,160 --> 04:00:26,900
 Commission has met, we did have one case go before council on April 4th.

3400
04:00:26,900 --> 04:00:31,740
 If you recall, that was the rezoning from Plan Development District 120 to MN.

3401
04:00:31,740 --> 04:00:35,480
 It was south of Loop 288, about 1,600 feet west of Locust Street.

3402
04:00:35,480 --> 04:00:38,940
 This was to accommodate development in accordance with the MN standards.

3403
04:00:38,940 --> 04:00:44,520
 If you recall, this is the property that had the old 1969 zoning that we were even concerned

3404
04:00:44,520 --> 04:00:50,280
 whether or not we could accurately administer given the quality of the conditions of the

3405
04:00:50,280 --> 04:00:53,160
 copies of the document, right?

3406
04:00:53,160 --> 04:00:57,020
 So this one did get approved by city council.

3407
04:00:57,020 --> 04:01:01,680
 With respect to items listed on the matrix, from what I understand there were no new requests

3408
04:01:01,680 --> 04:01:07,200
 that were brought forth, and so we will update this this evening also based upon the conversation

3409
04:01:07,200 --> 04:01:11,280
 that we had with respect to the discussion about public hearing notifications.

3410
04:01:11,280 --> 04:01:14,600
 So we can note that one is completed.

3411
04:01:14,600 --> 04:01:20,600
 So I believe that -- oh, and Ron asked me to also mention with the downtown area plan

3412
04:01:20,600 --> 04:01:25,160
 we're still working through our contract negotiations and selecting the consultants.

3413
04:01:25,160 --> 04:01:31,160
 So hopefully we'll have that contract ideally on council's agenda in May so we can start

3414
04:01:31,160 --> 04:01:34,300
 our downtown area planning efforts as well with that.

3415
04:01:34,300 --> 04:01:37,040
 So that concludes my announcements.

3416
04:01:37,040 --> 04:01:38,040
 Thank you.

3417
04:01:38,040 --> 04:01:39,040
 Thank you very much.

3418
04:01:39,040 --> 04:01:40,040
 Commissioner Smith.

3419
04:01:40,040 --> 04:01:41,040
 Thank you, Chair.

3420
04:01:41,040 --> 04:01:49,680
 I talked with Hillary here between our work session and dinner, Tina, but if we can add

3421
04:01:49,680 --> 04:01:54,960
 to the matrix, it would be nice just knowing that we've come up on DCRC with a few kind

3422
04:01:54,960 --> 04:01:59,320
 of more hot-button topics lately, specifically short-term rentals, if we can start including

3423
04:01:59,320 --> 04:02:05,600
 DCRC meetings and current conversation topics into the matrix as well, they could be good

3424
04:02:05,600 --> 04:02:06,600
 to get some feedback.

3425
04:02:06,600 --> 04:02:10,760
 And I'll take the moment now instead of doing it at concluding items, and I'll be quick

3426
04:02:10,760 --> 04:02:13,880
 because I know it's been a long night.

3427
04:02:13,880 --> 04:02:20,120
 In the conversation about short-term rentals with the DCRC, the direction of the committee

3428
04:02:20,120 --> 04:02:26,800
 has really been to kind of work through the code, the six of us, and then get public feedback

3429
04:02:26,800 --> 04:02:31,360
 on short-term rentals before there's even recommendations given to this body.

3430
04:02:31,360 --> 04:02:36,240
 And then from there, obviously, a public hearing, then that makes recommendations to city council

3431
04:02:36,240 --> 04:02:37,480
 to have public hearing from there.

3432
04:02:37,480 --> 04:02:43,240
 And so trying to have extra layers of community involvement, community feedback, and any of

3433
04:02:43,240 --> 04:02:47,200
 the DCRC members, Commissioner Villarreal, Commissioner Prude, and myself, we're willing

3434
04:02:47,200 --> 04:02:51,620
 to visit with any of the PNZ members who have questions about short-term rentals on a one-on-one

3435
04:02:51,620 --> 04:02:54,200
 basis that doesn't constitute a walk-in quorum.

3436
04:02:54,200 --> 04:02:55,200
 Gotcha, Hillary.

3437
04:02:55,200 --> 04:02:59,720
 But yeah, not just short-term rentals, but as we keep going on with DCRC, I think it'd

3438
04:02:59,720 --> 04:03:04,640
 be nice if the commission had, "Hey, this is what DCRC's been talking about lately."

3439
04:03:04,640 --> 04:03:08,480
 If you've got any input or things like that, talk to your DCRC members so they can get

3440
04:03:08,480 --> 04:03:09,600
 that weighed in.

3441
04:03:09,600 --> 04:03:13,600
 I know when we've seen code amendments that have come to the Planning and Zoning Commission,

3442
04:03:13,600 --> 04:03:18,480
 it's been like, "This is a code amendment that three people of the seven-person commission

3443
04:03:18,480 --> 04:03:19,800
 have talked about.

3444
04:03:19,800 --> 04:03:23,640
 The other four might be a little bit somewhat blindsided about what was the thought process

3445
04:03:23,640 --> 04:03:25,520
 in this, or did you guys think about this?"

3446
04:03:25,520 --> 04:03:28,920
 And it might be good for us to bring some insight that would be good to bring into those

3447
04:03:28,920 --> 04:03:32,120
 rooms in the DCRC discussions.

3448
04:03:32,120 --> 04:03:36,720
 So just to make sure I understand your request correctly, so we could include on our meeting

3449
04:03:36,720 --> 04:03:41,120
 agenda just a standing item with respect to Development Code Review Committee updates?

3450
04:03:41,120 --> 04:03:45,800
 I don't really think it needs to be that, so much as it is what it is with saying, "Hey,

3451
04:03:45,800 --> 04:03:48,800
 this is what's happened at City Council with items that have come across the Planning and

3452
04:03:48,800 --> 04:03:49,800
 Zoning Commission."

3453
04:03:49,800 --> 04:03:54,600
 Say, "Hey, DCRC recently," because it's almost always DCRC's meeting the Monday of the week

3454
04:03:54,600 --> 04:03:55,600
 that we have Planning and Zoning.

3455
04:03:55,600 --> 04:04:02,400
 Say, "Hey, on Monday, DCRC talked about short-term rentals, and we had discussions around reasonable

3456
04:04:02,400 --> 04:04:05,920
 accessibility, reasonable competition."

3457
04:04:05,920 --> 04:04:10,760
 It's been a long day, but being able to bring those up and say, "That's the topics that

3458
04:04:10,760 --> 04:04:11,760
 are right now.

3459
04:04:11,760 --> 04:04:15,680
 We've had three meetings now on short-term rentals, and this has kind of been what the plan and

3460
04:04:15,680 --> 04:04:19,960
 process has been," just so other members of the commission know what the topics have been

3461
04:04:19,960 --> 04:04:20,960
 at DCRC.

3462
04:04:20,960 --> 04:04:24,680
 If they're not following those meetings and watching those videos and seeing those agendas,

3463
04:04:24,680 --> 04:04:26,560
 they're kept in the loop on it as well.

3464
04:04:26,560 --> 04:04:27,560
 Okay.

3465
04:04:27,560 --> 04:04:29,760
 So including those in our matrix reporting that we do?

3466
04:04:29,760 --> 04:04:30,760
 Yes.

3467
04:04:30,760 --> 04:04:31,760
 Okay.

3468
04:04:31,760 --> 04:04:33,560
 So basically, when Tina gives her spiel update, right?

3469
04:04:33,560 --> 04:04:34,560
 Correct.

3470
04:04:34,560 --> 04:04:35,560
 Yeah.

3471
04:04:35,560 --> 04:04:36,560
 Okay.

3472
04:04:36,560 --> 04:04:37,560
 Okay.

3473
04:04:37,560 --> 04:04:38,560
 Very good.

3474
04:04:38,560 --> 04:04:39,560
 We can do that.

3475
04:04:39,560 --> 04:04:40,560
 Thank you.

3476
04:04:40,560 --> 04:04:43,440
 100% of that, I think it's really wise.

3477
04:04:43,440 --> 04:04:45,720
 I will support 100% of that.

3478
04:04:45,720 --> 04:04:47,800
 I think it's very wise.

3479
04:04:47,800 --> 04:04:52,160
 One thing I will point out, and maybe it's just because I can't find it on the website,

3480
04:04:52,160 --> 04:05:03,920
 but I believe once the COVID additional meeting recording thing was reduced because of staff

3481
04:05:03,920 --> 04:05:09,520
 availability, that we still record those meetings as a matter of public record, but they're

3482
04:05:09,520 --> 04:05:16,040
 not posted on the webpage to view because they're not produced by DTV.

3483
04:05:16,040 --> 04:05:22,400
 So even if there's just a way to circulate to the rest of PNZ, the link to go watch those

3484
04:05:22,400 --> 04:05:28,640
 somehow, I think that may aid people getting a background of what the discussions were

3485
04:05:28,640 --> 04:05:32,960
 like and what the tenor was.

3486
04:05:32,960 --> 04:05:33,960
 For DCRC, correct?

3487
04:05:33,960 --> 04:05:34,960
 Okay.

3488
04:05:34,960 --> 04:05:35,960
 That's correct.

3489
04:05:35,960 --> 04:05:36,960
 Yes.

3490
04:05:36,960 --> 04:05:37,960
 Thank you.

3491
04:05:37,960 --> 04:05:41,400
 Okay.

3492
04:05:41,400 --> 04:05:44,200
 Anything else for the matrix?

3493
04:05:44,200 --> 04:05:46,880
 Any concluding items?

3494
04:05:46,880 --> 04:05:49,120
 Okay.

3495
04:05:49,120 --> 04:05:54,480
 With that, I will adjourn our meeting at 9.52 p.m.

3496
04:05:54,480 --> 04:05:55,320
 Thank you very much, everyone.