WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.660 good evening and welcome to the planet zoning Commission's work session for 00:00:09.660 --> 00:00:17.800 January 9th 2019 I will call the work session to order at 339 one point of 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:23.760 clarification for the agenda is on the work session we are going to switch item 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:28.760 one and item two so we will come back to the agenda items but first we'll 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.480 receive the work session reports starting with a presentation and 00:00:32.480 --> 00:00:37.000 discussion regarding Robert's rule of order 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:43.720 hi y'all my name is Trey Lansford I'm a deputy city attorney here with this here 00:00:43.720 --> 00:00:48.480 in the city attorney's office it was my understanding that this was asked for by 00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:52.360 committee members just kind of an overview of Robert's rules of order not 00:00:52.360 --> 00:00:55.200 too long ago late last year the City Council actually asked for the same 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.820 presentation and so we brought in Richard Hayes who is a local attorney 00:00:58.820 --> 00:01:02.720 here in town and who is a certified parliamentarian and so who better to 00:01:02.720 --> 00:01:05.840 teach you Robert's rules of orders than a certified parliamentarian so we have 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:09.560 that video and I'll show that video now and then following that I'll be available 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.760 for questions if you have any 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:25.360 I started you know having been a chairman of the board of the chamber president 00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:28.280 Kiwanis president of the bar Association you think you know something about 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:32.960 parliament procedure after you let a number of community groups and I really 00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:36.920 started learning parliament to procedure about 15 years ago when my wife asked me 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:41.080 to come up to Ryan High School and to help their farming to procedure team and 00:01:41.080 --> 00:01:45.320 I said no not gonna do it she said look I'm begging you just come down here one 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:48.120 time to help the kid I was not doing you chew my ass out every time I get home 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:53.120 late and I'm just not gonna I don't need more abuse in my life she says come one 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:58.000 time that's all I'm asking just one time so I go and there was young man there 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:02.400 who had read Robert's rules over the summer and he had like a photographic 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:09.000 memory so he would would be having a practice and I would say something says 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:13.740 well that's not right Mr. Hayes if you go on page 172 it says so-and-so and I 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:20.960 went so I flip open the book sure enough he was absolutely 100% correct he's an 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:25.840 MD now and it taught me I need to learn more about parliament procedure I didn't 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.040 know there were a number of organizations the National Association of 00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:32.000 parliamentarians the Texas State Association of parliamentarians there's 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.880 a network across the nation and now through those organizations I started 00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:39.640 learning more about it you'll see under my name it says professional registered 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:42.880 parliamentarian it when you join the National Association of parliamentarians 00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:46.240 you're a member to be a member you have to take an exam so you can't just pay 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.440 dues you have to take an exam show minimum proficiency and then they have a 00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:53.560 credentialing process you can first become a registered parliamentarian and 00:02:53.560 --> 00:03:01.680 then a professional registered parliamentarian that I do wrong here so 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:07.240 there's only about 275 people in the nation that are PRPs professional 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.760 registered parliamentarians we all have different niches some do labor unions 00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:17.800 some do PTA some do churches some do political some do governmental and so 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:22.880 there's nuances to each of those various areas so what is prime procedure it's 00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:26.440 the basic rules of democracy it's how groups of people come together in form 00:03:26.440 --> 00:03:30.920 and then I'm talking just starting with a mass meeting where you think hey it'd 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:33.840 be a great idea if we had a Harley-Davidson club here and didn't so you 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:37.680 get a bunch of enthusiasts together and then you meet a couple times decide if 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:42.520 you're gonna have an organization an appointed committee prepare your bylaws 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:48.360 and ultimately adopt those and then once you have your bylaws adopted you know 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:53.680 how large your organization perhaps it's gonna be who the office what the officer 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:58.360 positions are and whatever one's responsibilities are and then how to go 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.920 about conducting your business I have to hit that next every time or am I just 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.640 hitting the wrong button all right so I want to talk a little bit about the 00:04:05.640 --> 00:04:11.320 history of parliamentary procedure I could be a lot of the confusion in the 00:04:11.320 --> 00:04:16.920 parliamentary world is because there are many parliamentary authorities and to 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:20.560 give you a great history lesson the first parliamentary man in the United 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.520 States was in 1801 by Thomas Jefferson now anybody remember what Thomas 00:04:24.520 --> 00:04:29.640 Jefferson was doing in 1801 he was the vice president and what is the main job 00:04:29.640 --> 00:04:33.540 of the vice president presided over the Senate when he realized there were no 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:39.020 rules and so he prepared the first he called it the manual parliamentary 00:04:39.020 --> 00:04:43.600 procedure its parliamentary was his choice of words because a lot of it was 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:49.520 drawn from the English Parliament the second major publication was by a man 00:04:49.520 --> 00:04:55.560 named Luther Cushing in 1844 it also had like the Jefferson manual dealt with 00:04:55.560 --> 00:05:02.880 deliberative assemblies of a legislative nature a Senate House state Senate 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:10.240 state houses and there were both excellent works and then finally in 1876 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:17.640 Henry Robert at the time he was a major and he realized that those legislative 00:05:17.640 --> 00:05:22.840 rules didn't necessarily apply very well to community organizations so he started 00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:27.060 with the Jefferson manual he reworked it trimmed it down changed some of the 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:32.200 rules and came up with the pocket manual it was called a pocket manual to the 00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:37.840 social it could fit right in your pocket of your shirt well over the years many 00:05:37.840 --> 00:05:41.960 parliamentary authorities have evolved they have some similarities but they 00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:46.240 have any differences and the main challenge I see on parliamentary 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:51.040 procedure is we watch C-SPAN all the time and we see him do something and 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.280 then we come back to our local organizations and we say man I saw how 00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:58.840 to do that on C-SPAN and it's wrong because they're using the Jefferson 00:05:58.840 --> 00:06:05.360 manual at the US House and Senate and most organizations these days are using 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.120 a different parliamentary authority so this is a little cartoon about you know 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:13.360 the teacher saying the past in council hadn't run so well and void problems in 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:16.720 the future we're going to start using Robert's rules you know this is Robert 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.920 here's Mike makes right is compared to what the rule is but here is the 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:25.320 dominant parliamentary authority for the United States it has about 90% of the 00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:29.400 market share it is the parliamentary authority that the city of Denton has 00:06:29.400 --> 00:06:35.480 adopted so what kind of rules governing assembly now I made a couple little 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:40.480 tweaks from the PowerPoint that was sent out to you in advance but we're gonna 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.920 start at the top there's a lot of state law that governs city councils then you 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.480 have your charter you've adopted special rules of order called city council rules 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.800 of order or rules of procedure then your parliamentary authority Roberts rules 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:57.200 standing rules which are more administrative in nature and then 00:06:57.200 --> 00:07:06.320 custom now since Roberts rules is your dominant is your parliamentary manual if 00:07:06.320 --> 00:07:10.200 you go right above that and it says city council rules of procedure and in 00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:14.320 parentheses I say special rules of order what you've done is you have tweaked 00:07:14.320 --> 00:07:19.720 Roberts to fit your particular needs it's a consequence they take precedence 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:28.200 and supersede what you read in Roberts so as with all law parliamentary law has 00:07:28.200 --> 00:07:32.520 general rules has exceptions to the rules and exceptions to the exceptions 00:07:32.520 --> 00:07:37.160 and most people know one of the three so that's another thing that causes 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:43.360 confusion is people saying different organizations operating in a different 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:49.720 parliamentary authorities and then knowing either the law the exception to 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:59.040 the law or the exception to the exception so this is your when you when 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:10.160 you go back to your council rules of procedure that's in your section two 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:15.680 point two nine of your code of ordinances this be 12 says okay you're 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.400 gonna use Roberts rules of order latest edition now we're on the 11th edition 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:25.440 about every 10 years the authorship committee comes out with a new edition 00:08:25.440 --> 00:08:30.680 and they don't totally change it what they do is they have had circumstances 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:35.560 that have arisen that require more coverage so for instance in the 10th 00:08:35.560 --> 00:08:40.280 edition there were three sentences on electronic meetings it was just 00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:43.880 starting to come about to really have electronic meetings by the time we made 00:08:43.880 --> 00:08:48.800 it to the 11th edition now we have three pages and I would expect from the 12th 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:54.920 edition comes out probably around 2021 we'll have a greater coverage on that 00:08:54.920 --> 00:08:59.960 issue but your basic rules are gonna stay the same so how do we get home 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:05.960 before midnight this seems to be a non goal of most governing bodies okay so 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:10.120 it's not unique to the city of Denton but you know one reason I always thought I 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.880 couldn't be a member of the City Council is I'd slit my wrist I've had to sit up 00:09:13.880 --> 00:09:19.840 there that long so one of your goals if you could is how do we not only operate 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.680 better as a group but how do we get it over and done with I mean just get it 00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:27.440 over and done with so I want to give you some ideas the first thing I want to 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.040 suggest to you is everybody should have a notebook now I know y'all gone all 00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:34.840 electronic won't encourage you to still have a notebook that you can keep next 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:40.560 to your laptop and in there you're going to have I say first your contacts of all 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:46.540 your council members key staff and you can even put your board members and 00:09:46.540 --> 00:09:49.520 stuff under that tab or you could do it further down like where you see nine ten 00:09:49.520 --> 00:09:54.040 eleven you want to have a calendar of any important events and that will have 00:09:54.040 --> 00:09:59.080 to be updated regularly on that tab then you want a copy of a corporate charter 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:11.520 your council rules a procedure what I'm referring to is the motions chart that's 00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:24.720 this little handout I'm going to tab for your agendas and minutes any financial 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:29.720 records that you think are important to you especially the budget then your 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:34.760 committee members and then all of our various boards and other organizations 00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:39.320 that are in the city carry this around with you because invariably what I see 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.880 in organizations is you're wondering who's supposed to be done what and 00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:49.080 that'll help you all right so let's learn all the vocabulary the first thing 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:53.960 we do when the mayor of the mayor pro tem begins speaking is we convene the 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.760 meeting it means come together so normally it begins something like this 00:10:56.760 --> 00:11:00.320 I want to welcome everyone here tonight and convene the meeting convene just 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.640 means come together immediately thereafter you need to establish a 00:11:03.640 --> 00:11:07.440 quorum so we heard the mayor pro tem today say a quorum being present we will 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.200 now come to order we determine a quorum first before we come to order most 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:16.800 organizations say I'll call the mean the order do we have a quorum so we want to 00:11:16.800 --> 00:11:20.680 figure out if we have a quorum first then we're going to call the meeting to 00:11:20.680 --> 00:11:33.000 order different organizations do it different now one expediter when I 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:36.360 looked at today's agenda I didn't see an item on there maybe you already did it 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.560 the approval the minutes of the last meeting I didn't see it maybe it was 00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:45.320 escaping me I thought maybe about me under the consent agenda yeah generally 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:49.280 they show up on the consent agenda every so often we'll have three or four sets 00:11:49.280 --> 00:11:52.840 of minutes that will be beyond consent at a time so generally we approve the 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:57.760 minutes at the next regularly scheduled meeting but consent agenda is a 00:11:57.760 --> 00:12:01.400 wonderful way to do that if you're at your Rotary Club you know the way it 00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:05.280 should handle happen or if you're at the another organization you just say the 00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:07.960 minutes haven't been mailed down in advance are there any corrections to the 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.440 minutes crickets crickets crickets there being no 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.840 corrections minutes stand approved is prepared does not require a motion we 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:19.040 call that unanimous consent so that's a little bitty time saver it does not 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:26.160 require a motion or a second so let's talk about some of the rules of speaking 00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:33.040 we want to be recognized before you speak address always the comments to the 00:12:33.040 --> 00:12:38.800 mayor or the mayor pro tem not to other council members why do you think we do 00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:45.080 that it's one way to keep the corn we don't start getting personal or you know 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:51.560 heated so we direct it to the presiding officer whoever made the motion has the 00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:57.680 right to speak first under Roberts we have default rules on how long you can 00:12:57.680 --> 00:13:02.180 talk the default rule is 10 minutes each time you speak and you can speak two 00:13:02.180 --> 00:13:07.200 times on the same day on the same same subject holy cow that's a lot of time so 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:12.600 we all have adopted under your City Council rules of procedure limits for 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.680 outsiders but you have not done that on yourself so I don't know if you consider 00:13:16.680 --> 00:13:23.440 that an issue but to again to keep the meeting running what I see in large 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.880 organizations especially at conventions is they will put a total time limit per 00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:32.640 item they'll say these items are all items who shall not exceed 20 minutes 00:13:32.640 --> 00:13:40.520 and you're gonna or you can put one speech per person not to exceed three 00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:45.840 minutes so you might just consider that you shall not speak more than twice on 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:51.360 the same question on the same day that's a very reasonable rule and you don't have 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.640 the opportunity to speak a second time until everyone else has had the 00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:58.440 opportunity to speak we've all been to meetings where there's just one person 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.960 that is just dominating that particular meeting you know they might talk three 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:08.120 four or five times that doesn't mean they don't have valuable things to add 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:16.480 it's just it delays the meeting generally the remarks should be limited 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.960 to the merits of the pending question this the word vocabulary word here is 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:25.920 germane has to be germane to whatever the immediately pending motion is we'll 00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:29.400 talk about that a little bit more in a minute you should alternate between those 00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:33.360 in favor and against now this is another hard thing that governmental bodies have 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.960 doing you might have five people that are in favor of it and all five want to 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.240 give their two cents worth on why they're in favor of it and the other two 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:43.280 don't speak if we wanted to expedite our meeting if there's no one who's speaking 00:14:43.280 --> 00:14:48.800 against it then there's real really no reason why we need to hear why all five 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:55.120 people are in favor avoid the personal remarks don't ever question motives and 00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:02.440 don't impugn people's character if you make a motion you can't speak against it 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:05.080 but after the debate you may have changed your mind and say well that 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:10.400 wouldn't a very good idea so you can vote against it and then in closing 00:15:10.400 --> 00:15:18.320 debate it requires a motion a second and a two-thirds vote to close debate or if 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.840 the designing officer says is there any further comments or we don't have any 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.400 other lights you know y'all use the touchscreen if there's no other lights 00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:32.480 then a motion is really not necessary that you would again be using unanimous 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:43.800 consent this is when the motives of a member of the body is questioned is the 00:15:43.800 --> 00:15:48.560 proper response for somebody to say point of order and we saw this very 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:53.480 dramatically if you'll recall when Jeff Sessions was they were having the debate 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:56.720 on the US Senate floor on whether or not he should become the Attorney General 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:03.000 the United States and one of the other senators started haranguing and saying 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:08.400 some things and what happened the presiding officer just on his own 00:16:08.400 --> 00:16:12.640 initiative called a point of order that one of our rules of decorum is we do not 00:16:12.640 --> 00:16:19.840 disparage or speak ill of other members of the body okay so that was a good 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.400 example of that point of order anytime you think there's a rule that's not 00:16:24.400 --> 00:16:29.400 being followed because you have millions of rules now don't you state law charter 00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:36.720 your code of ordinances your rules of order of rules of procedure your Roberts 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:42.320 rules of order so you have all kinds of rules so that can be used anytime there 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:49.520 is a perceived rule violation okay how to handle a motion so the first place I 00:16:49.520 --> 00:16:54.560 want to take you is on the front of your handout and this is prepared by the 00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:59.000 National Association of parliamentarians it is said that if you can learn these 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.320 two pages front and back you'll know about 50% of everything you need to know 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:07.320 about parliamentary procedure so that's kind of nice it seems that I can know 00:17:07.320 --> 00:17:12.960 half on the front you'll see procedure for handling a main motion and after you 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.800 have risen or you have punched your button and sought recognition and you're 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:22.280 recognized then you have these six steps so first a member is gonna make a motion 00:17:22.280 --> 00:17:28.480 what's gonna happen next somebody else is gonna have to second it then the 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.760 chair is gonna state the question it is moved and seconded to approve the 00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:38.960 contract with so-and-so debate it finally you're gonna vote on it the 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:43.960 chair put put is a word of parliamentary art that is it has a very specific 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:47.360 meaning in the parliamentary world when you put a question you're putting it to 00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:52.040 a vote and then the chair will announce the results of the vote so if you go 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:55.720 down the little page here you can write your one two three four five six on here 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:59.600 if you're wondering what happens what happens a lot of times is when normally 00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:08.280 get a motion 90% of the time we get a second about 50% of the time the chair 00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:14.760 will state the question we're pretty good about debating it I'd say 98% of the 00:18:14.760 --> 00:18:18.560 time we debate things when they're debatable sometimes we debate things 00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:24.680 that aren't debatable and then the chair puts the question to a vote we're good 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:30.280 at that sometimes we assume there's a motion just like that unanimous consent 00:18:30.280 --> 00:18:34.360 we don't have a formal what does the chair say in unanimous consent what I 00:18:34.360 --> 00:18:37.960 gave you while ago are there in the corrections to the minutes crickets 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.120 crickets crickets there being no corrections the minutes are approved or 00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:47.120 if there's no objection to the approval of the contract the contract will be 00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:54.040 approved crickets crickets crickets it's approved so we use unanimous consent so 00:18:54.040 --> 00:18:58.400 if everybody is chimed in that they're all in favor of the contract then it's 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:02.280 really easy for the charity's unanimous consent in which since you're a 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:09.360 governmental body everybody's gonna punch their keypad and give us the 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:14.800 result it was pointed out the last time we had like a lot of discussion about 00:19:14.800 --> 00:19:21.440 preliminary procedure in this body that we have kind of a custom or a practice 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:26.480 of having debate and then kind of seeing if somebody wants to entertain you know 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:33.880 if someone wants to make a motion right is that a problem that's the antithesis 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:38.400 of parliamentary procedure again and governmental bodies the basic rule is 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.240 have a motion on the floor you have a motion on the floor then you can focus 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.120 the debate you know exactly what you're going to either vote you're gonna prove 00:19:47.120 --> 00:19:51.960 the contract you're gonna disapprove so if you wait till all of it is then you 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.440 kind of read the tea leaves and it says well it looks like there's five people 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:58.240 against this then someone may say well I'll make a motion to disapprove but if 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:03.000 you'll I would encourage you again if you can discipline yourselves the mayor 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.680 will read the agenda item say this is the next item someone could make their 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.560 motion then debate it then we're gonna use some of those other rules to help 00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:16.120 expedite your meeting alternate between those in favor and those against once 00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:21.520 you run out of one side don't recognize the others okay that will save you an 00:20:21.520 --> 00:20:25.000 incredible amount of time so if you'll make your motion first to direct the 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.560 direct the debate and then alternate so everybody doesn't have to speak I know 00:20:29.560 --> 00:20:35.440 you're on TV but what's the goal get home before midnight that's the goal all 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:44.160 right now how do you obtain the floor in the work session we are raising hands at 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.640 the council members you're gonna press your touchscreen in larger assemblies 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.400 let's say you're a convention or something like that normally you'll 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.720 arise an address and then after your recognition you'll give your name 00:20:55.720 --> 00:21:00.360 identification and you'll remain standing until you're recognized once 00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:08.920 someone else is recognized you can go ahead and sit down so what's our pneumonic 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:14.640 for the front page here remember we said there are six steps first step is what 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:23.360 make a motion then I move that don't say I motion that I move that I move to 00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:34.000 adopt the ordinance dealing with so-and-so I move that or I move to then 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.520 we have the second there's a set second step then the chair is going to state 00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:44.160 the question now this is something else that we see is not used dramatically 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:49.040 correct but it is moved it's present tense not it has been moved now if you 00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:51.480 say it has been moved that's not the end the world we can figure it out but it's 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:56.960 moved and seconded you know to approve the contract then we're going to debate 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.640 it we're gonna put it to the vote and this is that last step step six on 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:06.520 announcing results the eyes have it the motion is adopted and the treasurer will 00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:11.000 issue the check you know to pay the bill I want you to see here this has three 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.500 parts to it announcing the results of the vote so it's very clear what just 00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:19.960 happened which side had it what happened that is the motion is adopted or lost 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:25.640 and the effect you know we will enter into a contract if you look at the 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:30.640 bottom in the middle here it gives you those three steps when it has under the 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.960 chair announces the result of the vote so it has three parts to it every time 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:40.560 which side has it whether or not the motion is adopted or not and the effect 00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:44.960 and then immediately thereafter move the next item of business is you know agenda 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:52.720 item for B remember it may be knows have it the motion is lost the check will not 00:22:52.720 --> 00:23:01.120 be written next item of business is so what are our six steps motion second we 00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:07.560 state it now in the parliamentary world that mss that's miss and the fourth the 00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:13.240 last part there debate a vote and announce is diva that's miss diva that's 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.800 mnemonic I used that term a while ago so if you're trying to remember that you 00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:26.200 could write mss DVA and you'll know your procedures okay methods of voting in 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.960 your council chambers you know someone is going to have made a you have to 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.240 puncha your keypad devote I mean to make a motion someone else's has a little 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.560 place on there to make the second if you want to debate you have a place to do 00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:48.680 that and then you have a place to touch either for or against so you're not 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.920 doing electronic what we would technically call electronic voting 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.820 because you're all together at the same time but you are using electronic 00:23:57.820 --> 00:24:05.720 device to indicate your preference so what you're doing here is you're having 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:10.040 synchronous voting you're going to sink on this meeting everybody's in the same 00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:14.200 room the same time everybody's voting at the same time that's different than 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:18.480 asynchronous where you try to vote by email for instance some organizations 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.800 allow that their bylaws so allow 00:24:28.560 --> 00:24:35.720 in voting we're talking about voting methodologies lots of y'all ever do a 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:42.800 voice vote even on simple things are you always use keep it we occasionally use 00:24:42.800 --> 00:24:51.040 hands especially if we're voting in here that's only okay option for and in your 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:55.240 work session minutes you always record how everyone voted someone doing that or 00:24:55.240 --> 00:25:01.680 just put it in past well during work session will get in census but we don't 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.640 actually vote items on the regular meeting or special call meeting that we 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:15.120 vote on it is recorded who voted which direction okay all right we use raising 00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:21.280 hands or a rising vote normally when their two-thirds vote is required you 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:25.680 know the older story called division of the assembly in the great days they 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.800 would literally be in a room and those in favor would go to one side of the 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:39.280 room and the O's that against it would go to the other so this is rising votes 00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:47.760 diva voce is the Latin phrase that means you know by vocal doing it vocally so in 00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:53.200 our special community organizations who might say those in favor the motion say 00:25:53.200 --> 00:26:00.800 I have those opposed say no and then which side has it is how we would do we 00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:06.320 already saw a couple examples of unanimous consent when you did that 00:26:06.320 --> 00:26:11.080 especially when there seems to be no opposition y'all use the concept you 00:26:11.080 --> 00:26:20.200 announced consent when you do your what yes consider Jenna exactly and unanimous 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:23.280 consent doesn't mean everybody's in favor of it it just means no one has an 00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:27.640 objection that's what that really means that's why we say if there's no 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:31.680 objection the contract will be approved 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:38.320 so you'll see the third check mark there can be used without stating the 00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:41.840 question or putting it to a formal vote 00:26:41.840 --> 00:26:50.160 that's my remote sir yes I offer a footnote there is a form of unanimous 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:54.560 consent where everyone is in favor is there not that's called approval by 00:26:54.560 --> 00:27:00.800 acclamation you can do acclamation yes all right so now we're going to learn a 00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:09.320 little bit about motions I want you to open up your handout and you're going to 00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:15.200 see over on the left hand side it says ranking motions we have a total of five 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:19.600 classes of motions three of those classes are called ranking or in the 00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:25.200 ranking area starting at the bottom main motions main motions bring substantive 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.680 business before the organization we have subsidiary motions and then privileged 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:39.080 motions so there are 13 ranking motions so we have main motions subsidiary and 00:27:39.080 --> 00:27:43.960 privileged those are the three classes ranking motions and I just told you 00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:50.480 there were 13 in individual motions under there one for the main motions seven 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:57.960 subsidiary and five privileged now interestingly when you go to your City 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:02.720 Council rules the procedure you already carry these around hard copy was you 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.800 just use it all electronic 00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:25.880 it's not a trick question electronic okay until I build my folder second under 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:32.600 the section G consideration of ordinances resolutions and motions when 00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:40.720 you get down to subsection 10 says order of precedence of motions so that's what 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.480 this is talking about we're nothing about ranking motions it has to do with 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:48.920 precedence we'll come back to that and then the other two classes are on the 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.480 right hand side of your handout non ranking motions you'll see these are in 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.480 alphabetical order up there incidental motions and then motions that bring a 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:01.560 question again before the assembly so since they have no rank putting it in 00:29:01.560 --> 00:29:08.400 alphabetical order was as good as any now there are about 84 different 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.080 parliamentary maneuvers that you'll see in Roberts rules you'll see that if we 00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:18.440 only have 13 ranking motions and you look across the way maybe we have 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:28.360 another 13 or 14 where are all the other maneuvers well if it's not on this chart 00:29:28.360 --> 00:29:32.200 on let me give you the good news to you guys on motions are bringing a question 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:38.400 again for the assembly there's only four of those so generally they're gonna end 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:44.720 up being an incidental motion generally okay there's your chart now let's see 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:49.080 what else is on this page up in the top left hand corner it's called pertinent 00:29:49.080 --> 00:29:53.080 facts you'll see it gives you the definition of four of the five classes 00:29:53.080 --> 00:29:59.120 of motions underneath it it says meaning of symbols because some of the maneuvers 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:02.880 have a symbol out next to them in the bottom left hand corner types of 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:07.360 amendments over in the right hand side you'll see notes for footnotes and then 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:17.520 the bottom right hand corner forms of voting so this is a cute cartoon what is 00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:23.320 motion sickness okay so now we're going to go through some of those specific 00:30:23.320 --> 00:30:32.560 motions and the first the lowest ranking motion is the main motion how do we 00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:45.120 make a main motion I move that or two I move that or two now let's look at our 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:49.840 parliamentary chart for just a minute and you see all these columns on here 00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:53.920 every parliamentary maneuver has what we call eight standard descriptive 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:58.560 characteristics six of the eight lend themselves pretty well to chart format 00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:03.600 the other two do not so what you'll see in your chart here is in the first 00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:08.680 column is is an interrupting motion can you just interrupt and if there is a 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:16.920 what there can you interrupt the letter I thank you second column tells us 00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.880 whether or not that motion needs a second the third is whether or not it's 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.760 debatable the fourth is it amendable the fifth is what kind of vote is required 00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:28.780 and the sixth was can you reconsider that particular parliamentary maneuver 00:31:28.780 --> 00:31:36.960 the general rule on main motions is that majority vote majority rules y'all have 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:43.240 adopted a under your counsel rules of procedure you have tweaked that rule a 00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.360 little bit so this is one of those special rules of order this is under G 00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:54.440 again we remember a while ago we were talking about G so consideration of 00:31:54.440 --> 00:32:01.480 ordinances resolutions and motions and what does the slide say here y'all said 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.080 an affirmative vote of four members is necessary to repeal any ordinance or 00:32:05.080 --> 00:32:09.160 take any official action in the name of the city that would be like adopting 00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:19.480 ordinance so what if you only have five people at the meeting what happens so 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.920 you have varied Roberts because once you determine you have a quorum five would 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:31.400 be a quorum then normally three out of the five could pass it so there are some 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:36.560 positive to this you know it puts when you have a low turnout one night it 00:32:36.560 --> 00:32:41.480 protects those who are absent from those being present adopting something that 00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:50.000 others may decide was you know ill-advised or not fully developed you 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:55.800 also have another rule talking about tie votes and if you have a tie vote so you 00:32:55.800 --> 00:33:01.320 have six people there then it automatically goes to the next council 00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:11.040 agenda so what normally happens on a tie vote in parliamentary law does tie vote 00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:17.920 is a lost vote so what y'all done is since you're having to do substantive 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.680 business that's what this is this particular area of your rules are 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:30.440 dealing with substantive business then we know we're gonna have to still deal 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.520 with the issue and if it's a tie vote then we'll kick it to the next agenda 00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:41.600 comes from breaks do our boards and Commission says can you go back also 00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:50.520 follow the a tie vote and say if they do say P&Z has a tie vote that's going to 00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:58.760 be a tie forever and ever does that move up to council or does that stay in the 00:33:58.760 --> 00:34:07.400 committee and and die so your specific question dealt with which body planning 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:14.120 and zoning okay the answer that would be no that's how I read your the rule says 00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:28.840 under be general rules it says well that's not the right section what it 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:36.160 says under authority number one pursuant to the revisions of section 2.07 of the 00:34:36.160 --> 00:34:40.800 Charter the City Council hereby enacts these rules of procedure for all meetings 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.840 of the City Council in the City of Denton so I see it as written it's just applying 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.680 to council and so any other body border Commission that would have a tie vote 00:34:50.680 --> 00:34:58.320 then that vote would die be a lost vote be a lost vote okay there's actually a 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:02.720 provision in the rules of procedure okay it's yeah you have a whole bunch of 00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:09.760 rules on committees don't you it's it's the last it's h4 in the rules of 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:16.080 procedure and it basically it mandates all these rules of procedure 2-29 apply 00:35:16.080 --> 00:35:21.560 to all the boards and commissions and committees and so we they have my 00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:25.120 previous action council has okay he's applicable to them they're not 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:30.040 referenced in the general to 29 but we do make it applicable okay and where did 00:35:30.040 --> 00:35:40.120 you say that was it's the provision right before it's up section 9 okay okay 00:35:40.120 --> 00:35:44.800 rules of procedure board Commission and committees members shall comply with 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:51.160 revisions of this of article 2 is chapter 2 of the code of ordinances copy 00:35:51.160 --> 00:35:56.880 we provided a copy of these rules of procedure which shall govern operational 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:02.040 procedures of the boards and Commission so I stand correct thank you 00:36:02.040 --> 00:36:21.160 council member that yeah I just have a question about that I mean like on PNC 00:36:21.160 --> 00:36:28.120 if it's a tabo or actually they voted down that still doesn't prevent the 00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:34.600 council itself from bringing that matter up correct generally it would not okay 00:36:34.600 --> 00:36:39.960 because the council could basically overrule PNC and bring it before the 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.880 council well council might deny the let's say a rezoning in a piece of 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.680 property that didn't you know preclude it from coming before the council you 00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:51.840 know they're making a recommendation to the council okay and then council will 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:56.440 take the final action on that item okay 00:36:56.440 --> 00:37:01.760 council member my question to follow up on that so if PNC isn't a tie vote and 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:08.260 it's forever a tie vote how would that recommendation come to council if it 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:12.440 doesn't ever it would essentially be no recommendation so it would eventually 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:19.240 come to us is no recommendation well it's not they're not in favor and they're 00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:25.400 not against it so at some point if it keeps getting hung up in PNC and I guess 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.560 the council becomes aware of it you could request it be put on your agenda I 00:37:29.560 --> 00:37:35.760 mean after a little while it seems that body most of those bodies are organized 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:40.160 to have odd number of members so at some point they ought to be able to break the 00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:44.680 time unless someone keeps abstaining or someone keeps being absent but normally 00:37:44.680 --> 00:37:49.120 it'll work its way through have y'all had a an example of that word just kept 00:37:49.120 --> 00:37:55.520 me month after month it was time of time oh well there was a recusal and so I 00:37:55.520 --> 00:38:00.160 mean it eventually worked itself out but I'm just kind of going through the the 00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:05.720 process okay so let's go back to your example if that were the case perhaps 00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:10.560 you might consider adding to the rule if it's ends up a tie vote more than twice 00:38:10.560 --> 00:38:15.320 then what do you want what do you want the result to be and automatically kicks 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:21.200 it from the board to the council or it's now it really is lost and you can decide 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:25.880 okay thank you I just wanted to add that there's a work 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.760 session coming before you I believe it's next week about this specific issue and 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.720 some of the recommendations the staff is making to address the tie vote provision 00:38:34.720 --> 00:38:41.640 so thank you okay if you want to kill a motion look at your parliamentary chart 00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:45.920 second from the bottom you'll see postpone indefinitely this is your 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:52.800 lowest ranking subsidiary motion this is the killer motion so what you do if 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.720 someone says I'm able to postpone the motion indefinitely you're now voting on 00:38:57.720 --> 00:39:05.000 whether or not to kill it so if you pass the motion to postpone indefinitely what 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.560 what's the practical effect of that you never took a vote of the main motion 00:39:09.560 --> 00:39:14.200 that was before you passed postpone indefinitely so you this is what Congress 00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:18.280 does all the time they can say well I was for it and because I didn't vote 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:23.800 against it but yes you voted to kill the motion but you never took a direct vote 00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:33.960 on the motion in that case could a motion to reconsider bring it back from 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:40.680 purgatory all right now look at postpone and definitely y'all have a rule that's 00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:45.940 again it when yours a special rule that supersedes Roberts Roberts with the 00:39:45.940 --> 00:39:50.920 asterisk there so see Roberts is what that means and but y'all have adopted a 00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:56.120 rule that at the next regular scheduled meeting someone could make a motion to 00:39:56.120 --> 00:40:02.240 postpone I mean a motion reconsider so long as you put it you know let somebody 00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:05.880 know in advance so it can be on the agenda to comply with the open meetings 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:16.200 act so what this rule tells you is is we only reconsider under Roberts 00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:21.600 affirmative votes only that's what that asterisk means so how many of you people 00:40:21.600 --> 00:40:49.200 actually have a rock okay now I want to wait just give you these for a moment you 00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:57.160 know I wanted to tell you one of those vandal parts of Roberts that is most 00:40:57.160 --> 00:41:02.640 people never use in the back we have these tinted pages this takes every 00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:07.600 parliamentary maneuver that I mentioned to you while ago Richard if you could 00:41:07.600 --> 00:41:10.480 step behind the mic all right we're gonna stay in the camera range stay on 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:17.000 camera you'll see it has all those maneuvers but let's go to postpone 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:26.440 indefinitely it's in its item 61 on page 23 in the tinted pages and when you see 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:31.480 an asterisk on your chart if you will slide over to whether or not it can be 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:38.760 reconsidered what does it say affirmative vote only affirmative vote 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:46.680 only all right so we don't reconsider negative votes to kill it okay now 00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:50.680 that's but y'all have adopted a different rules I'm just giving you a 00:41:50.680 --> 00:42:00.080 distinction in your rules so this is a killer motion if you want to change a 00:42:00.080 --> 00:42:04.800 motion we do that by amending now look on the bottom left-hand corner of your 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:09.720 parliamentary chart I gave you types of amendments I'm going to tell you there 00:42:09.720 --> 00:42:16.120 are five one way is to insert a second way is to add insert means between 00:42:16.120 --> 00:42:23.920 existing words and it means at the end we can strike out words we can strike 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:28.600 out and insert words or we could substitute those are the five ways that 00:42:28.600 --> 00:42:37.160 we amend so here is a practice pointer the rule is you have a main motion on 00:42:37.160 --> 00:42:42.720 the floor a primary amendment can be made and a secondary amendment can be 00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:47.960 made a secondary amendment amends the primary amendment we do not allow a 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:53.440 tertiary amendment so it gets too confusing at that point if many options 00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.200 need to be considered Roberts gives you an option it's called to create a blank 00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:02.120 and then you can take all kinds of suggestions and then whichever 00:43:02.120 --> 00:43:06.500 suggestion first is a suggestion that receives a majority vote then you can 00:43:06.500 --> 00:43:12.360 fill the blank but as far as amendments primary and a secondary the secondary 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:16.560 amendment has to be germane to the primary amendment and I have some 00:43:16.560 --> 00:43:20.120 examples here at the end I'm gonna go through amendments a little more 00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:28.600 thoroughly yes ma'am councilman welcome there's a if somebody has an idea for a 00:43:28.600 --> 00:43:38.600 tertiary amendment could the could the body decide to postpone the meeting 00:43:38.600 --> 00:43:44.640 with the primary and secondary amendment to postpone that to another time where 00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:49.120 and in which case with the tertiary amendment when reconsidered would it 00:43:49.120 --> 00:43:53.680 still count as the tertiary amendment or then would it be okay so your idea is 00:43:53.680 --> 00:43:58.680 we're starting to brainstorm now we have several ideas and maybe the suggestion 00:43:58.680 --> 00:44:04.080 is we're gonna postpone the main motion and the adhering amendments to be taken 00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:08.680 up at the next regularly scheduled meeting yeah okay maybe even a better way to do 00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:12.720 that is refer it to a committee let the committee study all these different 00:44:12.720 --> 00:44:16.760 alternatives and then bring a recommendation back from the committee 00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:23.400 might be another way to do it okay if you think there's going to be many 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:26.760 suggestions just go ahead and say I moved him in the say the motion is I 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.960 move to order pepperoni pizza and someone makes that's a main motion 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:35.200 primary amendment strike pepperoni insert sausage secondary amendment 00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:40.640 strike sausage and insert anchovy okay and someone else wants to have vegetarian 00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:45.960 okay so we're getting all these different suggestions so maybe in that 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:48.360 case since we're trying to order the pizza for lunch that may be impractical 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:53.600 to send it to a committee or to postpone it so in that instance the better thing 00:44:53.600 --> 00:44:58.960 to do might be to create a blank take all the suggestions for the kind of pizza 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.240 you want and then we start voting on them in the order in which they're made 00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:05.560 and the first one that receives a majority maybe we never make it to 00:45:05.560 --> 00:45:11.680 anchovy because we're gonna adopt the earlier item now filling of blanks is a 00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:17.040 very technical area we have different rules for money names we do in the order 00:45:17.040 --> 00:45:23.680 in which they were suggested for distance we have different rules because 00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:30.360 what we do and like distance of money we start with the least likely suggestion 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:35.040 to be adopted and work our way so if someone says I moved to sell City Hall 00:45:35.040 --> 00:45:38.880 for a million dollars and someone else said and sometimes I want to create a 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:44.120 blank and the first suggestion will be a million and then somebody else's well I 00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:46.720 think we shouldn't sell it for less than two million if someone else's well I 00:45:46.720 --> 00:45:50.720 don't think should be less than 10 million so we get all those when you're 00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:57.160 trying to sell what would be the least likely the one million well the least 00:45:57.160 --> 00:46:00.040 likely to be a million that is you'd rather get you prefer to sell it for as 00:46:00.040 --> 00:46:05.400 high now if you're the buyer you say now move to buy the new City Hall then you 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:09.920 want to start with the lowest okay that mean that is the most likely way we 00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:13.480 always start with the least likely so there are different rules for filling 00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:19.800 different kinds of blanks and that's a whole nother day okay we want to send it 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.160 to a group for study we commit a refer if we want to delay action to the next 00:46:24.160 --> 00:46:29.000 meeting we move to postpone I move to postpone the item to the next regularly 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:34.040 scheduled meeting or you can postpone it to later in the same meeting so 00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:38.040 postpone can be used both ways same meeting or or another meeting but it 00:46:38.040 --> 00:46:41.320 can't be beyond the next meeting you can't postpone something for a year 00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.360 they'll be like trying to kill it wouldn't so you would do your postpone 00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:48.440 indefinitely if you want to change the rules of debate you can limit or extend 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.780 limits of debate and you can see what we're doing here is we're working our 00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:58.680 way up the chart and and the next one is the previous question so if you would 00:46:58.680 --> 00:47:04.200 look at limit debate and previous question what vote is required for both 00:47:04.200 --> 00:47:09.760 of those two-thirds and the reason it's two-thirds is debate is a basic right 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.160 of a member of a assembly so if we're gonna take away that basic right or 00:47:14.160 --> 00:47:18.560 limit it in some way then we're going to require two-thirds vote so do both of 00:47:18.560 --> 00:47:24.360 those require second limit debate or previous question yes and requires the 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:33.480 two-thirds so here is what y'all have under your council rules of order when 00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:36.520 the previous question is moved and seconded it should be put as follows 00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:43.760 remember put is that word of art shall the main question be now put if you're 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.240 gonna make a suggestion here on something I'm not sure the main question 00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:53.240 now be voted on instead of put that's just a technical term there should be no 00:47:53.240 --> 00:47:56.560 further amendment or debate except that nothing here in shall allow the previous 00:47:56.560 --> 00:47:59.840 question to be called prior to at least one opportunity for each council member 00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:05.880 to speak now if you were gonna look for time savers this is another this is a 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:10.760 killer we're gonna let everybody speak on every issue 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:20.840 the other thing by closing debate I move the previous question it stops 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:25.840 debate on all these lower pending motions but it allows you to make these 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:37.800 higher ranking motions this is one of the most abused motions I see because 00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:41.400 lots of times organizations are not requiring second server or two-thirds 00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:48.080 vote if you want to set aside something temporarily because something else of 00:48:48.080 --> 00:48:52.640 urgency is arisen what are we gonna do for the highest ranking subsidiary motion 00:48:52.640 --> 00:48:59.160 we're gonna lay it on the table now in the Jefferson manual lay on the table is 00:48:59.160 --> 00:49:04.320 a killer motion so we watch C-SPAN and we see the US House of Representatives say 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.520 I move to lay the motion on the table they're killing it lay on the table does 00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:15.120 not kill a motion what motion kills it postpone indefinitely that's the killer 00:49:15.120 --> 00:49:24.920 motion so lay on the table not a killer motion requires majority vote now we're 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.560 gonna move over to the right-hand side of your parliamentary chart under 00:49:27.560 --> 00:49:33.440 incidental motions if we want to enforce a rule what are we gonna do make a point 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:38.720 of order if you're not sure if a point of order is in is the appropriate 00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:42.480 maneuver to make and you want to be or maybe you will be more genteel about it 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:50.280 what can you do make a parliamentary inquiry you could ask the presiding 00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:56.640 officer do we have a council rule that prohibits making personal attacks 00:49:56.640 --> 00:50:00.600 against members you're making instead of saying the person is out of order just 00:50:00.600 --> 00:50:08.640 because they did it you can make a parliamentary inquiry now once the chair 00:50:08.640 --> 00:50:13.140 makes a parliamentary ruling like someone says point water state your 00:50:13.140 --> 00:50:19.200 point can't attack council members the presiding officer says point well-made 00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:24.580 if you disagree with that parliamentary ruling then you can appeal from the 00:50:24.580 --> 00:50:27.540 decision of the chair so on the right-hand side since this is an 00:50:27.540 --> 00:50:33.240 alphabetical order you'll see appeal there does it require a second yes and a 00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:41.080 majority vote you'll rarely have the need for division since you're using 00:50:41.080 --> 00:50:47.200 raising hands or the keypad voting what happens when you're at a convention the 00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:51.360 chair says all in favor say aye and then the nose all opposed say no the 00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:57.180 nose always seem louder and there have been a lot of studies on this and most 00:50:57.180 --> 00:51:04.320 of the time the eyes had it and so if you disagree with that because we use 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:08.520 our ears on a voice vote then you can have a rising vote use our eyes again 00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:14.160 we're not counting we're just looking we got 8,000 delegates if you still can't 00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:22.760 tell then you could do some type of counted vote what did I tell you while 00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:28.280 ago if you had a parliamentary question what do we use yeah we don't ever use 00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:32.520 the word question in the parliamentary world you don't say I have a question we 00:51:32.520 --> 00:51:39.040 either make parliamentary inquiries or we make requests for information so if you 00:51:39.040 --> 00:51:43.640 want to be very technical now no meeting runs perfect we see lots of people say 00:51:43.640 --> 00:51:47.400 well I have a question on so and so but technically we would say request for 00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:55.680 information if you want to do something that your parliamentary rules don't 00:51:55.680 --> 00:52:00.920 allow that is your City Council rules of procedure or Roberts rules we can 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:07.640 suspend the rules guess what we can't suspend we can't suspend state law we 00:52:07.640 --> 00:52:11.520 can't suspend our corporate charter okay we can't suspend those you can only 00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:18.720 suspend parliamentary rules and under your rules again instead of it being a 00:52:18.720 --> 00:52:22.360 majority vote aren't me excuse me a two-thirds vote y'all have a specific 00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:25.400 rule that allows four votes to suspend the rules so you made a little bit 00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:29.040 easier if all seven people are there if only six of the seven are there it's 00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:34.640 still two-thirds just like go to your chart the last item says suspend the 00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:38.840 rules you'll see that if you want to write on your chart suspend the rules 00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:44.200 right between the and rules the word parliamentary 00:52:44.200 --> 00:53:04.000 reconsideration this is on that the fifth class of motions motions bring a 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.800 question again before the assembly and this is your specific City Council 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:16.480 rule of procedure rule as with Roberts it can only be made by someone who voted 00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.640 on the prevailing side but y'all allow it to be made at the next succeeding 00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:25.560 official meeting of the council and as we talked about a while ago you have to 00:53:25.560 --> 00:53:31.400 let it be known that you're gonna make that motion so it can be agenda so how 00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:36.880 do you do that your rule says let the city manager know so we can get it on 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:42.480 the agenda all right now we're gonna talk about amendments how many ways did I 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:56.520 say you could I mean well ago so we add what does that mean at the end so if you 00:53:56.520 --> 00:54:00.160 will say I move to amend by adding then everybody in the room knows this is 00:54:00.160 --> 00:54:04.360 going to go on the end same thing if you insert and they know it's going to go 00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:11.960 between words so I move to amend by inserting pepperoni after the word the 00:54:11.960 --> 00:54:17.800 main motion is I move to order pizza for lunch so you know I move to amend by 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:24.200 inserting pepperoni between order and pizza councilmember well sir whatever 00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:29.560 would be considered a proper to amend by inserting the words anything but yes 00:54:29.560 --> 00:54:37.840 you could that's right get new carpet in City Hall anything but red or something 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:46.160 okay then we can move to strike out and insert and substitute substitution is 00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:49.600 when you have so many changes that are going on it's instead of taking like 00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:54.560 five different little amendments we're just gonna take a whole new paragraph in 00:54:54.560 --> 00:55:00.560 place of that which is there so let's give some examples here I already tell 00:55:00.560 --> 00:55:07.040 you this one main motion we order pizza and the motion is to amend by adding with 00:55:07.040 --> 00:55:12.520 pepperonis mushrooms and bell peppers now where does that go at the end that's 00:55:12.520 --> 00:55:20.520 what that means if we're gonna insert main motion I mean that we order pizza 00:55:20.520 --> 00:55:26.280 someone else's own a man by inserting pepperoni after order so the amended 00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:30.600 motion read that we order pepperoni pizza I'm using pages because it's real 00:55:30.600 --> 00:55:34.800 easy to understand when if we took some of your agenda items it's a little more 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:40.120 challenging and I think sometimes it gets the better of you know city 00:55:40.120 --> 00:55:44.600 councils as they're trying to make amendments our strikeout insert and the 00:55:44.600 --> 00:55:51.600 motion was that we order a deep-ditch pizza someone else wanted to make it so 00:55:51.600 --> 00:55:55.880 you can see we would strike out and insert 00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:01.240 amending the amendment so remember we have the main motion we have a primary 00:56:01.240 --> 00:56:06.920 amendment and then now this is our secondary amendment secondary 00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:12.360 amendments amends only the primary amendment that second bullet says it 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:14.920 cannot be applied to a secondary amendment what was the word we used while 00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:22.640 they go for that you cannot have a tertiary it has to be germane to the 00:56:22.640 --> 00:56:27.280 the secondary amendment has to be gene germane to the primary amendment so main 00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:33.240 motion is to buy a computer someone else wants to amend it by inserting Dell so 00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:36.560 if adopted it would read I moved to amend the amendment by striking Dell 00:56:36.560 --> 00:56:42.240 inserting Apple once you have a secondary amendment floor you have to 00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:46.160 vote on that and if that passes then you have to vote on the primary amendment 00:56:46.160 --> 00:56:51.400 and then you vote on the main motion as amended so this would not this is an 00:56:51.400 --> 00:57:01.080 incorrect example what's wrong here why couldn't we put a cost limitation well 00:57:01.080 --> 00:57:05.720 we were our primary amendment was what type of computer what brand were we 00:57:05.720 --> 00:57:10.080 going to buy so your secondary amendment has to do with branding this has to do 00:57:10.080 --> 00:57:17.000 with dollars once we decide to adopt Dale and now it just says I moved to buy 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:22.640 a Dell computer for the executive then you can add a second primary amendment 00:57:22.640 --> 00:57:27.800 to put a dollar limitation cost on it so we're not mixing apples and oranges 00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:36.840 there this is a nitpicky question but just to understand but if you included 00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:44.520 the cost with the with the Dell amendment wouldn't that be wouldn't that 00:57:44.520 --> 00:57:50.040 mean a Dell computer not to exceed a thousand dollars as opposed to if you 00:57:50.040 --> 00:57:54.400 just included it at the end then it would be any computer whatever kind and 00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:58.720 you have flexibility in how you word it but again we're not gonna amend insert 00:57:58.720 --> 00:58:06.360 Dale here and then add cost over here it needs to be all in one location that's 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:10.240 your example that you just gave I see we're not gonna have three primary 00:58:10.240 --> 00:58:13.960 amendments yes and we wouldn't say at a cost not to exceed a thousand dollars 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:23.480 and then had from best buy yeah now on the vendor and where we're gonna go by 00:58:25.040 --> 00:58:29.640 so here we're gonna add at the end pepperoni mushrooms and bell peppers 00:58:29.640 --> 00:58:34.520 here we're going to amend the primary amendment by striking what pepperoni in 00:58:34.520 --> 00:58:40.960 inserting sausage so if amended it would read the primary amendment would read 00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:48.200 adding the words sausage mushrooms and bell peppers if the sausage secondary 00:58:48.200 --> 00:58:50.760 amendment fails then we're back to the primary amendment which would be 00:58:50.760 --> 00:59:02.400 pepperoni mushrooms and bell peppers so in this example of the last bullet we 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:07.960 assume that the secondary amendment passed and then the primary amendment 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:16.560 was passed so the main motion now reads as you see there so let's look at 00:59:16.560 --> 00:59:26.560 graphically okay now there are lots of ways to find out more and let me 00:59:26.560 --> 00:59:30.960 encourage you to go surfing when I told y'all did I started trying to find out 00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:34.640 things so of course I go on internet and type in parliamentary procedure and the 00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:38.320 next thing I learned there's a million YouTube's out there on parliamentary 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:41.920 procedure there's another organization called the American Institute of 00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:46.320 parliamentarians they not only use Roberts but they use what's called the 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:52.160 standard code or now the AIP code under the AIP code the motion lay on the 00:59:52.160 --> 00:59:55.800 table is a killer motion so that's another example that's mainly used in 00:59:55.800 --> 01:00:03.680 the medical communities and in the AIP you're tested over multiple parliamentary 01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:12.200 authorities as compared to the national you're just doing Roberts now let's do 01:00:12.200 --> 01:00:17.800 some questions I have about eight minutes left it looks like questions 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:22.840 customer bricks just for clarification because you said lay on the table so if 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:28.840 we say I've heard it on our council move to table same thing same thing same 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:34.560 thing so we're using it as a killer motion now when do we use the motion to 01:00:34.560 --> 01:00:38.320 lay on the table because something else of urgency has risen when you 01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:42.160 temporarily set aside the item under consideration the theory being we're 01:00:42.160 --> 01:00:46.380 going to later on take it from the table so if you go back to your 01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:50.160 parliamentary chart if you look under motions that bring a question again 01:00:50.160 --> 01:00:54.520 before the assembly the very first one is take from the table so if you were 01:00:54.520 --> 01:00:58.600 going to table it and try to kill it you can see how that doesn't work very well 01:00:58.600 --> 01:01:02.000 if we can take it from the table and unkill it so it's just the wrong 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:09.240 maneuver for the desired objective so just saying in the future if you want to 01:01:09.240 --> 01:01:16.480 kill it I need to postpone indefinitely and so if you do if it does get moved do 01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:24.800 you have to because we do a date certain and is that with a postponement that is 01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:29.360 postponed definitely versus postponed indefinitely so in definitely is the 01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:34.120 killer okay so go over here to your subsidiary motions go forth from the 01:01:34.120 --> 01:01:39.440 bottom and you'll see it says postpone to a certain time or indefinitely see 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:42.520 you say I mean to postpone it to the next regularly scheduled council meeting 01:01:42.520 --> 01:01:47.640 that would be for later consideration or I move to postpone consideration of this 01:01:47.640 --> 01:01:54.760 motion until 4 p.m. you know this afternoon you could choose a time today 01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:59.480 council member I spent thank you thank you Richard for presentation and then 01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:04.440 also would you be so kind as to email the updated one because I do like the 01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:09.600 example yeah those couple of slides if I can do that thank you be happy to and 01:02:09.600 --> 01:02:13.320 then let me tell you one other excellent 01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:31.960 instead of this 01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:41.600 if you want to carry one around carry around the yellow one it covers about 01:02:41.600 --> 01:02:47.720 90% of everything you're going to ever see and you'll see the print is larger 01:02:47.720 --> 01:02:54.320 and there's a lot of white space in it it's designed to be much more user 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:59.760 friendly this is written for like a sophomore in high school and this is 01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:07.240 written for a sophomore in college this the eleventh edition is written to cover 01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:12.600 the very very very technical and there are many other technical resources 01:03:12.600 --> 01:03:17.080 there's a book that Robert wrote called parliamentary law it's a red hard bound 01:03:17.080 --> 01:03:24.200 you know leather book and it is much more thorough even than this but he 01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:29.280 wrote it in 1923 and it is still gold and so the practicing parliamentarians 01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:34.120 all keep parliamentary law around for when an issue comes up but 90% of the 01:03:34.120 --> 01:03:38.360 time you can use this book has a pretty good index you'll see at the back it has 01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:45.880 some gray pages not as many it has an excellent table of contents and you 01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:49.920 ought to be able to read this front and cover in an hour unless you're really 01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:55.000 getting into it so this is a very quick read if you tried to read this it will 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:58.040 put you to sleep 01:03:58.040 --> 01:04:08.640 endlessly fascinating topic of tabling so first of all I take it that tabling is 01:04:08.640 --> 01:04:13.000 like postponing but just within the confines of one meeting right when you're 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:17.000 postponing it's to another meeting if you post excuse me if you lay it on the 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:23.160 table it can stay on the table up to the next meeting so if you run out of time 01:04:23.160 --> 01:04:27.400 that that was my question it comes up as unfinished business at the next meeting 01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:31.000 that was now there's several ways that things can become unfinished business 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:35.120 you have items on your agenda and you never reached them or again the your own 01:04:35.120 --> 01:04:38.880 an item and then someone says I moved to adjourn you know it's 1 a.m. in the 01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:47.960 morning that would come up as unfinished business all right we want to practice 01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:51.200 just for a minute make and I'm gonna call on Deb you're gonna think of a 01:04:51.200 --> 01:04:59.680 motion to make okay not too hard a motion and then Don you're gonna make 01:04:59.680 --> 01:05:04.320 an amendment to the motion and you don't know what the amendments can be yet why 01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:10.760 because we haven't heard her motion yet okay chair recognizes councilperson this 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:19.800 is not real I moved to sell City Hall for $3 crickets crickets there being no 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:24.040 second the motion will not be considered okay that's how it normally work it 01:05:24.040 --> 01:05:27.360 doesn't die for a lack of a second it's not considered so this time Gerard 01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:32.520 you're in charge of making all the seconds okay make your motion yeah I 01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:40.320 moved to sell City Hall for three dollars thank you chair I move you just 01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:45.360 say second second it's one word yes second you could go so far as to say I 01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:51.600 second the motion just say one second second so what would the mayor say it 01:05:51.600 --> 01:05:57.240 is moved and seconded to sell City Hall for three dollars now what would happen 01:05:57.240 --> 01:06:01.800 are you ready for the question that's the immediately pending question and we 01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:04.600 debate and at some point or right off the bat 01:06:04.600 --> 01:06:14.120 councilperson Duff seeks recognition and your motion is make a motion to make it 01:06:14.120 --> 01:06:23.040 $100 all right so you I move to amend by striking three and inserting 100 that 01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:32.440 was very clear okay I moved to strike three insert 100 Gerard second it is 01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:36.640 moved and seconded to amend the main motion by striking three and inserting 01:06:36.640 --> 01:06:41.960 100 so if adopted this is what the chair says if adopted the main motion read to 01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:47.620 sell City Hall for $100 again we would debate this primary amendment and let's 01:06:47.620 --> 01:06:53.000 assume that it passes so the main motion now reads to sell City Council for 01:06:53.000 --> 01:07:09.920 $100 City Hall. City Hall. Yeah, not City Council, excuse me. All right, fair, fair. Yeah, I'm seeing the headline of the paper already tomorrow. The council has moved to sell themselves. All right that's 01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:14.680 essentially how we make a motion and we amend it so I always say I move to strike 01:07:14.680 --> 01:07:19.640 and insert and so it's very clear that way you're not leaving it up to the 01:07:19.640 --> 01:07:24.600 chair to know where you want to insert your proposed language because this is 01:07:24.600 --> 01:07:29.960 an easy one with dollars but sometimes we have other words so where does he put 01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:34.040 it does he put it at the end stick at the middle do they put it between this 01:07:34.040 --> 01:07:38.080 word or put it over here between this word so give direction that way everyone 01:07:38.080 --> 01:07:44.880 knows exactly what's happening all righty well thank you all for having me and if 01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:48.680 I can ever be of assistance to you I wanted to give you two other things if 01:07:48.680 --> 01:07:55.840 I get them that I wanted to suggest you do on your parley chart we already wrote 01:07:55.840 --> 01:08:01.920 in suspend the rules and we we wrote in the word parliamentary rules and if you 01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:08.720 slide across to the column that says vote what did we see while ago y'all have 01:08:08.720 --> 01:08:14.800 adopted a special rule of order it says it takes four votes so write for under 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:23.800 vote you can just strike through two-thirds and put four and then 01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:31.440 depending on how many people are at the meeting that could either be 57% or 01:08:31.440 --> 01:08:37.000 two-thirds or unanimous if there's only four people there the other change I 01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:44.000 want to give you is over on notes under note for this has to do with let's where 01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:54.200 we find footnote for on the chart anybody find it reconsider so dot on the 01:08:54.200 --> 01:08:59.480 bottom right here and a reconsider you'll see a four out in front I want 01:08:59.480 --> 01:09:04.000 you to come up on the right hand side where it says notes and you'll see in 01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:07.720 the second sentence that says this motion can be made only by one who vote 01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:11.800 on the prevailing side we know that's true and then from there on down I want 01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:18.640 you to line it out and you're going to insert no later than the next meeting 01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:24.320 since you've adopted a special rule on that and remember it's no later than the 01:09:24.320 --> 01:09:29.840 next meeting but only if it's first you first notify the city manager so you can 01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:35.200 comply with the open meetings that so those are the three additions I would 01:09:35.200 --> 01:09:40.120 give you to your chart okay well thank you so much and if I can ever be help 01:09:40.120 --> 01:09:42.520 y'all let me know 01:09:42.520 --> 01:09:56.080 all right riveting as that was I'm sure no but I did want to follow up that was 01:09:56.080 --> 01:10:00.400 back in August and I'm sure y'all all aware last December the City Council 01:10:00.400 --> 01:10:07.320 took up the tie vote issue it came before them December 18th I believe it 01:10:07.320 --> 01:10:12.160 was Julie was the one that spoke that night they passed an ordinance that 01:10:12.160 --> 01:10:15.320 changed the rule that said that if there's a tie vote it'll be brought up 01:10:15.320 --> 01:10:19.840 here a second time and if it's a tie vote again it will then go to council as 01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:25.320 a recommendation of denial so for those of y'all that it wasn't answered that 01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:27.820 but I did want to bring that back so that was passed last December and it had 01:10:27.820 --> 01:10:32.760 a 14-day kind of time wait period on it so but it would be effective now so 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:37.800 that's now the tie vote provision that y'all specifically are operating under so 01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:41.840 I think one of the other one of the other questions that was kind of thrown 01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:47.560 out to us ahead of time was when is it appropriate to call the question to kind 01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:53.840 of cut off debate and move it move for the group to vote on the underlying 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:58.640 motion our rules of procedure actually cover that specifically as you heard in 01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:03.840 the video council has directed that all boards and commissions if you don't have 01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:09.360 a special rule you follow the council rules of procedure so under that under 01:11:09.360 --> 01:11:14.400 seven point twelve part twelve specifically you can't call the 01:11:14.400 --> 01:11:19.040 question until everybody has had a chance to speak at least once but then 01:11:19.040 --> 01:11:25.320 after that is when it is appropriate and if that is done it takes a second and a 01:11:25.320 --> 01:11:32.680 two-thirds vote to cut off debate so with that I will stand for any further 01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:42.400 questions pressure back thank you chair thanks tray a couple of things when 01:11:42.400 --> 01:11:48.080 we're through with the public hearing agenda item and the chair closes it to 01:11:48.080 --> 01:11:54.800 the public and then calls for either a motion or commentary I think is it the 01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:59.400 first one to the button that gets the recognition sometimes my friend next to 01:11:59.400 --> 01:12:05.920 me Tim beats me to go for motion I'd really like to speak on it I wanted to 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:09.160 get some debate out there before we even consider a motion to vote so is it just 01:12:09.160 --> 01:12:13.400 a matter of whoever pushes the button first then and if he pushes it first for 01:12:13.400 --> 01:12:19.760 moves to approve or deny whatever then we have to go to a second before any 01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:26.080 commentary typically the recognition will be in the order that it is requested 01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:28.760 okay there is some discretion on the chairs part but typically that's the way 01:12:28.760 --> 01:12:34.880 it goes now that said as mr. Hayes pointed out in the video the standard way 01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:39.920 is to have the motion first and debate followings okay so so it's not in other 01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:42.600 words it's not wrong to have it that way to have the motion on the table first 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:47.200 and then the debate and discussion as you have the motion on the table okay but 01:12:47.200 --> 01:12:52.280 if I were to hit the button that wanted to discuss it first right then we would 01:12:52.280 --> 01:12:58.600 probably do that before we would move to make a motion on approval or denial it'd 01:12:58.600 --> 01:13:04.000 be up to the chair but yeah okay well wasn't what Mr. Smith picture was isn't 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:08.840 what what mr. Hayes said he said that technically no debate is supposed to 01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:11.840 happen until there's actually you have to get them a motion on the floor to 01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:18.800 actually have a debate I wasn't sure I heard that though that's why yeah it 01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:22.240 seemed he was strongly suggesting that when the public hearing is closed a 01:13:22.240 --> 01:13:26.720 motion happens and then we debate that motion and that's fine but me I just 01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:30.440 wanted to be clear on that so okay Larry move faster and then the only other 01:13:30.440 --> 01:13:34.220 thing that is that's standard practice under Robert's rules I'm kind of as he 01:13:34.220 --> 01:13:38.640 mentioned the rules are supposed to be here to help not here to hinder and one 01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:42.120 of the things that a lot of especially local governments is that they've kind 01:13:42.120 --> 01:13:45.800 of gotten away from what was the standard of motion followed by debate 01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.440 and even I mean I'm sure most of y'all watch City Council you know that a lot 01:13:49.440 --> 01:13:52.440 of times even though in the debating first before they have the motion but 01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:56.320 technically under the rules the motion should come first okay the only other 01:13:56.320 --> 01:14:04.080 thing I had was it indicated that to postpone and definitely killed it can 01:14:04.080 --> 01:14:09.880 kill yeah and what makes me ask didn't we postpone indefinitely the tree coat 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:13.840 thing because I sure didn't and I seconded it but I didn't intend to kill 01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:19.840 that Richard did trying to recall it seemed like we postpone indefinitely but 01:14:19.840 --> 01:14:25.200 my thought was we're gonna bring this up later not kill it I've got to go back I 01:14:25.200 --> 01:14:28.280 don't remember if it was postponed indefinitely or table indefinitely it 01:14:28.280 --> 01:14:34.760 was it I've got to go back and I think I might motion I'm pretty sure I think it 01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:41.640 was postponed postponed till date uncertain which is which is which is 01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:44.660 post I remember Jerry mentioning this it's not it's not indefinitely it's 01:14:44.660 --> 01:14:48.880 postponed definitely but we just don't have a date correct okay it's a death so 01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:59.560 we didn't kill that it's coming back next month Christopher Smith what is 01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:02.280 Robert's was water because that's one thing we have had especially when we had 01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:07.280 that they're really late media a couple months ago whenever we have you have a 01:15:07.280 --> 01:15:12.680 public hearing occurring what's Robert's was waters what do they what do they say 01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:18.120 on public hearing and discourse between you know the person speak the you know 01:15:18.120 --> 01:15:23.120 the citizens speaking at the mic to us you know as the Commission what's the 01:15:23.120 --> 01:15:27.360 what's the traditional standpoint of making it efficient to make sure that 01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:30.960 the public gets all their comments in without so no that's what ended up 01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:34.000 happening one point in time as we had it was getting pretty late and he got to 01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:38.120 the point where he just said hey look Commission's just hold off on any 01:15:38.120 --> 01:15:43.920 comment back to you know citizens unless there's a clarifying question and then 01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:47.720 wait and we'll address all questions at the very very end as Robert's reward or 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:52.800 typically a lot of that's gonna be in the discretion of the chair as mr. Hayes 01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:55.240 pointed out a lot of times when you're trying to do stuff like that if you just 01:15:55.240 --> 01:16:00.080 decide you're gonna set a time limit on certain items or something like that it 01:16:00.080 --> 01:16:05.360 can help but that would be at the discretion of the chair in the body not 01:16:05.360 --> 01:16:09.920 directly right directed directed time right directing time and I mean there's 01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:14.000 there's decorum rules that councils you know yeah passed about how you're not 01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:17.560 supposed to it's not supposed to be a one-on-one conversation so much as the 01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:22.440 person standing here supposed to address you all and stuff like that but that's 01:16:22.440 --> 01:16:28.600 more decorum related than it is time management related 01:16:28.600 --> 01:16:33.600 Chris Charles thank you chair Trey we don't have any procedural rules on 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:38.520 addressing public and a public hearing do you not that's what I'm asking you oh 01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:44.400 you're asking me yes well we have the rules that council passed regarding the 01:16:44.400 --> 01:16:51.600 like open mic provisions they passed those last year because they wanted to 01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:58.280 have interaction and so well I don't know those as well off the top my head 01:16:58.280 --> 01:17:03.960 yeah my question is pertaining to public hearing items not not open mic because 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:08.680 we don't have open mic here all right okay but we have public hearing 01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:15.320 discussion so do we not have any procedural rules in place for I mean you 01:17:15.320 --> 01:17:17.720 would you just fall to the default at that point y'all don't have y'all don't 01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:21.160 have special rules I'll put it that way right yes so we would default to council 01:17:21.160 --> 01:17:26.320 right what are those rules those rules that you can ask clarifying questions 01:17:26.320 --> 01:17:33.920 yes ma'am so I found this extremely helpful I have a couple questions some 01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:39.000 were addressed by the other commissioners how does someone actually 01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:43.480 call a point of order and do they need to be recognized prior to doing that is 01:17:43.480 --> 01:17:47.920 that they can just interject point of order is that can you tell me more about 01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:51.600 calling a point of order if it's gonna write a point of order can be called at 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:56.120 any time in that meeting up to the next meeting so it doesn't have to be done at 01:17:56.120 --> 01:18:00.600 that exact moment but if it if you move on to the next meeting and it hasn't 01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:05.200 been called you considered to have waived your objection to the point of 01:18:05.200 --> 01:18:10.440 order I was thinking more specifically if if there is a personal interaction 01:18:10.440 --> 01:18:17.760 between two commissioners that that's of not a good nature can any one of the 01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:21.480 commissioners just say a point of order or does that have to come from the chair 01:18:21.480 --> 01:18:24.800 or no it can come from any of them yes sir and they can interject they don't 01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:28.720 have to be recognized right they can just interject right one order and that 01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:33.080 kind of shuts down puts pause on that what's gonna show you and then you'll 01:18:33.080 --> 01:18:39.480 recognize the point of order and and see what they believe was the because the 01:18:39.480 --> 01:18:42.280 point of order just is kind of like standing up and saying objection then 01:18:42.280 --> 01:18:45.160 you've got to say okay well what is your point of order what is your objection 01:18:45.160 --> 01:18:50.600 perfect and I mean sometimes it's more obvious than others obviously but then 01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:56.400 it would be up to you know you to decide if there was a procedural problem got 01:18:56.400 --> 01:19:00.360 you that's helpful and then the other thing is when there is a vote to 01:19:00.360 --> 01:19:06.120 postpone indefinitely or definitely how does that work with keeping the item 01:19:06.120 --> 01:19:10.400 open or closed can it happen while the public hearing is still open and if it 01:19:10.400 --> 01:19:15.240 does that it remains open or doesn't need to have the public hearing closed 01:19:15.240 --> 01:19:19.440 and then postpone and renoticed how does that work well if you were to open the 01:19:19.440 --> 01:19:22.560 public meeting and postpone it definitely and you can do that one of 01:19:22.560 --> 01:19:26.600 two ways you can either postpone it to a date certain or to an event certain and 01:19:26.600 --> 01:19:30.400 a lot of times council has done that in the past where they'll say look we need 01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:35.360 more information we need a report that says X it says we're gonna postpone it 01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:41.680 to an event certain and that event is receiving the report on X and so in that 01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:44.640 way you can keep it open without postponing it indefinitely but it's not 01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:49.800 to a date certain either and if you do that it would we recommend go ahead and 01:19:49.800 --> 01:19:54.200 open the public meeting and then if you're going to continue public comment 01:19:54.200 --> 01:19:58.080 and have it again you would postpone it during the public meeting without 01:19:58.080 --> 01:20:01.560 closing the public meeting and that way it doesn't have to be renoticed but if 01:20:01.560 --> 01:20:05.880 for some reason or after the chair closed the public meeting then it's 01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:08.400 determined you know we probably should go ahead and postpone it that's still a 01:20:08.400 --> 01:20:12.040 possibility this has to be renoticed right bring back the item certainly yeah 01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:16.440 if you wanted it if it were renoticed then then yes you could bring it back two 01:20:16.440 --> 01:20:23.160 more questions as the chair if there is routiness in the audience what do I do 01:20:23.160 --> 01:20:27.720 routing this in the audience yeah there's some heckling recently okay and I 01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:33.560 don't know like do I call a point of order on decorum what how do I stop any 01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:39.480 potential heckling you can request that the audience quiet down and if they 01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:43.880 don't tip I don't I don't know do y'all have an officer here in the evenings you 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:49.200 can ask the officer to have them removed and then lastly there's I think City 01:20:49.200 --> 01:20:54.080 Council has a decorum slide that's posted before the meetings right they do 01:20:54.080 --> 01:20:58.520 they do that before the the open mic session open mic right okay I was 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:03.120 wondering if it would be helpful to have that same sort of disclaimer to our 01:21:03.120 --> 01:21:07.520 audience that City Council is something we could look into yeah I know they do 01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:11.520 that before open mic but yeah that's all the questions I have super helpful 01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:16.000 Commissioner Smith yeah one I did bring up after one of those meetings I did 01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:18.800 bring up they do have that slide because there were there they did get to the 01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:21.760 point where some of those public hearings where we've had people said you 01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:28.960 guys are a bunch of crooks it's like I saw this thing Friday I haven't seen 01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:35.280 this project yet why am I a crook all right in it so the we can do we can do 01:21:35.280 --> 01:21:38.760 an event sir I never I never knew we could do it an event certain so like the 01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:44.920 right I guess just to give an example we had a case where at university right 01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:47.440 there in front of that that subway at their university in 288 there was a 01:21:47.440 --> 01:21:52.460 storage facility that was being used as a an auto repair shop and we end up we 01:21:52.460 --> 01:21:56.960 end up voting on to postpone until a date certain and said well you know will 01:21:56.960 --> 01:22:00.320 month be enough time for you to get this done for him to get these certain things 01:22:00.320 --> 01:22:03.980 that we could have just said we want to postpone this to event certain of you 01:22:03.980 --> 01:22:06.920 removing the cars off the lot which is what we were specifically postponing it 01:22:06.920 --> 01:22:10.760 and giving him time to do so we can do an event that would be a good that would 01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:15.680 be an example of something saying to a person coming to get a something 01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:19.720 approved by or a recommendation to give it to be so to counsel by putting a 01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:22.800 zoning commission we could say we're gonna postpone this item until event 01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:27.760 certain of you are moving cars off a lot we can do that it'll be harder in a 01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:29.960 situation where you're dealing with a third party member of the public like 01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:34.760 that than it is like well then certain can't counsel asking staff hey go get 01:22:34.760 --> 01:22:39.760 that and bring it back so it's better to ask a little more captive than so it's 01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:42.760 better to do it just for just for internal matters rather than more so yes 01:22:42.760 --> 01:22:48.360 okay thank you I do not see any other questions thank you very much for happy 01:22:48.360 --> 01:22:53.680 to help feeling them the next item would be to be provide clarification on what 01:22:53.680 --> 01:22:58.360 type of discussion is allowed during work session do not know who's 01:22:58.360 --> 01:23:14.980 presenting on this one I know these items were on have been on the list for 01:23:14.980 --> 01:23:19.960 quite a while and I so I don't even know how it was brought up I'm just trying to 01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:25.760 trying to clear the back backlog I think yeah I think we can just do it like a 01:23:25.760 --> 01:23:34.600 Q&A real fast on this this is possible well this ought to be fun they're gonna 01:23:34.600 --> 01:23:39.200 be all for Richard mr. Ellis thank you chair well actually just to answer your 01:23:39.200 --> 01:23:44.720 question Richard I brought it up a hundred years ago because yeah because 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:51.000 it seemed like we were having quite a discussion in work session and then much 01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:57.240 less discussion out in the public sect I think that's changed since I had brought 01:23:57.240 --> 01:24:01.640 that up on the matrix a hundred years ago but I definitely was asking for 01:24:01.640 --> 01:24:06.280 clarity mainly from legal about what is it that we should be discussing in work 01:24:06.280 --> 01:24:11.440 session and what should we be saving for public meeting that that was the that 01:24:11.440 --> 01:24:17.760 was my that was how it originally started and it was probably 2016 but so 01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:26.480 I'm glad we're getting to it honestly that's kind of broad well I think 01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:28.920 there's been situations where we're almost coming to a point where we 01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:33.200 understand every vote in here and then we get the public session we're like 01:24:33.200 --> 01:24:37.200 we've already kind of discussed all this and the public is not having they have 01:24:37.200 --> 01:24:40.680 an opportunity to hear this but I think to your point it's like we walk in we 01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:44.240 get a presentation there's no discussion we're ready to vote right after 01:24:44.240 --> 01:24:48.400 presentation that's what you're kind of alluding to where the public's not 01:24:48.400 --> 01:24:53.960 actually being privy to our discussion on the item right yeah thank you chair 01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:59.080 yeah I guess my point is is how much are we supposed to be figuring out in work 01:24:59.080 --> 01:25:06.760 session and is that even written anywhere is that you know I'll take a 01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:10.000 swing at it while Tracey's looking at okay thank you Matt Grindman with the 01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:13.840 city attorney's office I've represented a number of cities and it's done a 01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:18.040 little differently in every city I think just as far as best practices that it's 01:25:18.040 --> 01:25:21.360 within the discretion of the Commission how they want to do that you can get as 01:25:21.360 --> 01:25:26.120 much into as much detail as you want to at the work session the best practice 01:25:26.120 --> 01:25:29.720 I've seen is to really go after the facts and the details in the work 01:25:29.720 --> 01:25:33.440 session answer questions about the project and then your feelings about the 01:25:33.440 --> 01:25:36.640 project what you've you know that kind of thought is better up safe for a public 01:25:36.640 --> 01:25:39.920 hearing type of session where you can talk about that to me work session is 01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:43.880 let's answer the questions let's figure out what exactly the project is and get 01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:46.840 that type of detail in this meeting and then go to the open session with the 01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:50.920 public and talk about that a little bit more how you actually want to vote and 01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:56.240 explain your vote at that point right and I guess I'll kind of support what 01:25:56.240 --> 01:26:00.600 Mac said if you go to the like the procedural rules when it talks about the 01:26:00.600 --> 01:26:04.720 called workshop meetings work sessions same kind of thing is that it talks 01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:09.600 about when they're supposed to be set stuff like that but in there is that the 01:26:09.600 --> 01:26:12.560 purpose of the workshop meeting is to discuss or explore matters of interest 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:16.280 to the city some other things it says these meetings are to be informational 01:26:16.280 --> 01:26:22.040 and normally no final actions taken so really the work session is for you to 01:26:22.040 --> 01:26:27.000 gain information you that you can ask questions but your debate especially 01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:31.680 among one another is more so for the final when it comes to you before for 01:26:31.680 --> 01:26:35.800 the final action in the open session that in the evenings 01:26:35.800 --> 01:26:40.880 your shoulders thank you chair okay that helps a lot especially yeah the way it's 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:45.520 written there because back then that is that kind of was what was happening is 01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:50.200 most of the debate was happening in here and it just felt wrong then we would get 01:26:50.200 --> 01:26:53.400 to public session and as chair said then we'd get there and we'd hear the 01:26:53.400 --> 01:26:58.360 presentation again and there would be little discussion sometimes because we 01:26:58.360 --> 01:27:03.600 just had it in here and it seems like this should be more clarifying gathering 01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:07.360 I guess is isn't it put it right I mean that's it's almost what you just read 01:27:07.360 --> 01:27:11.160 there informational gathering informational gathering yes ma'am okay 01:27:11.160 --> 01:27:14.400 thank you Mr. Beck thank you chair now for me work 01:27:14.400 --> 01:27:18.560 sessions always been to clarify to make sure that I understand what staff has 01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:22.680 reported that I've got that straight so I'm not making an idiot of myself when I 01:27:22.680 --> 01:27:27.320 get out in the public session but usually if we work things out in here and then we 01:27:27.320 --> 01:27:30.280 don't discuss it much out there it's usually been when there isn't much 01:27:30.280 --> 01:27:35.160 public input anyway when there's public input that that they bring those kind of 01:27:35.160 --> 01:27:39.680 things up so that those those kind of debates I think do happen but for me 01:27:39.680 --> 01:27:46.040 work sessions to make sure I understand what is being presented to us that we're 01:27:46.040 --> 01:27:50.280 gonna be taking to the public session yeah and I remember back when you 01:27:50.280 --> 01:27:54.200 probably brought this up we would get checked by city say we need to wait to 01:27:54.200 --> 01:27:57.280 talk about that and it was kind of ambiguous of why we were being told to 01:27:57.280 --> 01:28:02.600 wait on some things and so the clarification is extremely helpful do 01:28:02.600 --> 01:28:07.560 you have any other questions on what we can talk about during work session or 01:28:07.560 --> 01:28:12.440 what we should talk about perfect in this work session yeah in this work 01:28:12.440 --> 01:28:18.600 session yeah perfect that brings conclusion to the work session reports 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:24.240 item two the next item for business is work session one clarification of agenda 01:28:24.240 --> 01:28:27.720 items and I think we have a couple clarifications I'll ask Richard to 01:28:27.720 --> 01:28:37.200 elaborate on under consent item 3a that item is being pulled and will be placed 01:28:37.200 --> 01:28:41.120 on the next the next meeting 01:28:41.120 --> 01:28:53.360 the only other the only other correction Haley will be handling public hearing 01:28:53.360 --> 01:29:02.680 number public hearing 5b Cindy and home sick with pneumonia and so Haley's 01:29:02.680 --> 01:29:08.060 Haley's filling in just to reiterate make sure everyone heard consent agenda 01:29:08.060 --> 01:29:16.600 3a is being pulled and agenda item 5b is being presented by Haley not Cindy and 01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:20.200 I'm sorry one more there was a correction to the minutes that we that we 01:29:20.200 --> 01:29:24.320 handed out today just to make sure everyone has that 01:29:24.320 --> 01:29:29.320 mr. Beck thank you chair yeah just a minor deal I noticed that in the one 01:29:29.320 --> 01:29:35.120 that we're eliminating the day that fp 18025 fp always meant final play it to 01:29:35.120 --> 01:29:37.960 me but when we go down here in the works it's preliminary play it so yeah it was 01:29:37.960 --> 01:29:42.040 a that was that was the error so is it a final pad or is it a preliminary it's a 01:29:42.040 --> 01:29:45.440 final play okay okay thank you mr. Smith thank you 01:29:45.440 --> 01:29:50.240 sure like whenever we vote on this both the consent agenda I guess since it's already 01:29:50.240 --> 01:29:55.240 gonna be there's gonna be announcements that there's amendments to the agenda we 01:29:55.240 --> 01:29:58.520 don't need to vote saying I make a motion to approve the consent agenda less 01:29:58.520 --> 01:30:02.880 you know item a we just like motion to prove the consent agenda and that's it 01:30:02.880 --> 01:30:05.720 because it's already been removed by staff I think so the chair is gonna make 01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:09.280 it clear I think before the vote that this is not I'm a that's okay so we can 01:30:09.280 --> 01:30:15.840 say motion still this motion to approve consent agenda correct commissioner 01:30:15.840 --> 01:30:20.200 Ellis thank you chair with regard to approval of minutes since we have this 01:30:20.200 --> 01:30:23.320 now in front of us are we just approving minutes we don't have to mention the 01:30:23.320 --> 01:30:32.480 change correct correct it'll be the minutes as presented here perfect I'm 01:30:32.480 --> 01:30:38.760 already feeling our sessions going more smoothly now this is good so that brings 01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:45.960 us to consent agenda items B does anyone have any questions on item 3b the final 01:30:45.960 --> 01:30:48.760 plot from Haley 01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:57.000 seeing no questions we'll go on to item 4a items for individual consideration I 01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:02.680 will invite Julie to present 01:31:09.040 --> 01:31:12.640 good evening I'm Julie Wyatt give me just a minute while I pull up the 01:31:12.640 --> 01:31:15.600 presentations 01:31:33.560 --> 01:31:40.640 right okay this is PE 18 3 symbiosis edition this might look a little 01:31:40.640 --> 01:31:47.280 familiar to you we looked at it earlier this year the the the subject property 01:31:47.280 --> 01:31:53.200 is located near Dallas Drive on Johnson Street as you can see right here it's 01:31:53.200 --> 01:31:57.600 outlined in yellow there was a plot approved for this property a final plat 01:31:57.600 --> 01:32:03.360 approved in July of 2016 as part of that plot there were some public 01:32:03.360 --> 01:32:07.880 improvements that were reviewed were reviewed and those included perimeter 01:32:07.880 --> 01:32:15.900 street improvements storm drain extensions and a sidewalk and and that 01:32:15.900 --> 01:32:20.360 plot was never filed so now they're coming back for a an extension of that 01:32:20.360 --> 01:32:24.240 final plot and I know over the summer we actually talked about another extension 01:32:24.240 --> 01:32:30.640 for this one so so our analysis for the request is based out of sub chapter 16 01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:37.960 of the debt and development code section 35 dot 16 dot 12 dot 2 dot f states that 01:32:37.960 --> 01:32:42.120 if a final plot is not filed within two years of approval it becomes null and 01:32:42.120 --> 01:32:45.680 void unless the planning and zoning Commission grants an extension for good 01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:52.840 cause as I said before final plot FP 16 it was approved in 2016 so it was set to 01:32:52.840 --> 01:32:59.160 expire in July of 2018 at that time the owner requested an extension of that 01:32:59.160 --> 01:33:03.160 plat he believed that there were economic factors that would make the 01:33:03.160 --> 01:33:08.440 project more economically feasible in the future this Commission did approve 01:33:08.440 --> 01:33:16.640 that extension a six-month extension to January 11th of 2019 on November 30th of 01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:21.560 last year we received a request from the applicant for an additional extension 01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:27.000 again citing the same reasons that the construction costs associated with the 01:33:27.000 --> 01:33:30.520 development of the site had not been feasible up until that point but he 01:33:30.520 --> 01:33:37.120 expected those factors to change however in that intervening time staff has not 01:33:37.120 --> 01:33:41.880 received any documentation that there was further progress made toward 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:46.120 completion nor did we receive any communication from the applicant between 01:33:46.120 --> 01:33:55.440 July and November so based upon that staff recommends denial of the request 01:33:55.440 --> 01:34:00.200 there have been two extensions or there has been an extension that was approved 01:34:00.200 --> 01:34:04.400 and since that time there have been two updates to the criteria manuals for 01:34:04.400 --> 01:34:08.680 public improvements particularly in terms of right-of-way widths and also 01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:13.440 pavement sections and since there has no not been any further progress toward 01:34:13.440 --> 01:34:18.920 completion we do recommend denial a denial of the request would would 01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:22.680 essentially mean that the final plat expires as well as the preliminary plat 01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:27.600 and so they would have to start over apply for a preliminary plat civil 01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:31.120 engineering plans and a final plat to ensure that that development would meet 01:34:31.120 --> 01:34:35.400 current standards so I'll stand for any questions 01:34:35.400 --> 01:34:44.160 Krisha Sanchez okay so they got just one extension right okay so I know when we 01:34:44.160 --> 01:34:48.540 had this discussion I think one of the questions is was it six months was in 01:34:48.540 --> 01:34:53.240 enough or should we go kind of full year or something if I remember that 01:34:53.240 --> 01:34:59.680 discussion so I guess my question is and you've said he at this point they have 01:34:59.680 --> 01:35:05.880 not met with you at all since since that other than submitting the extension they 01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:09.880 submitted the extension and actually the the developer came by to meet with me 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:13.880 today and he should be here tonight so he should be available to answer maybe 01:35:13.880 --> 01:35:17.580 some of more questions that you would have regarding his plans and the 01:35:17.580 --> 01:35:26.120 proposed development I guess my question is also projects within the city itself 01:35:26.120 --> 01:35:30.060 and because of all the infrastructure that's involved that they have to take 01:35:30.060 --> 01:35:34.760 care of what's your is that make it harder for for those projects to go 01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:40.440 through as opposed to projects outside I mean to achieve as opposed to more 01:35:40.440 --> 01:35:46.320 projects in the periphery of the city where it seems like they're building a 01:35:46.320 --> 01:35:50.640 whole lot and things go move a lot faster as opposed to projects inside the 01:35:50.640 --> 01:35:56.480 city where they have to deal more with existing infrastructure I don't know 01:35:56.480 --> 01:36:01.120 what the surrounding municipalities with their specific requirements are or the 01:36:01.120 --> 01:36:06.120 county I will say typically a municipality does require concurrent 01:36:06.120 --> 01:36:11.800 public improvements with any development so it's not out of the norm for the city 01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:15.360 to require those public improvements associated with the development and 01:36:15.360 --> 01:36:19.840 often those are meant to serve that development so for instance in this in 01:36:19.840 --> 01:36:23.760 this instance the sidewalk would serve the development those street 01:36:23.760 --> 01:36:27.200 improvements and then especially that drainage would be something that would 01:36:27.200 --> 01:36:35.160 be needed to serve that that property and a any uses on it 01:36:37.560 --> 01:36:45.520 okay I guess I miss on what I guess I'm getting that is is it a little bit the 01:36:45.520 --> 01:36:48.440 we're talking about denting itself I'm just saying that the projects that we 01:36:48.440 --> 01:36:55.000 see going on the periphery to me seem to go pretty quick now the ones in internal 01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:59.040 within the city and well they're both in the city but one of us in the 01:36:59.040 --> 01:37:02.880 periphery is it a little bit more difficult to achieve those kind of 01:37:02.880 --> 01:37:06.640 projects I mean being that you're there playing because of the fact that they're 01:37:06.640 --> 01:37:10.480 in in the interior part of the city I think I understand you're talking about 01:37:10.480 --> 01:37:17.840 infill versus infill right um you know I would say each each site is unique they 01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:23.240 all have their special circumstances associated with it on the on the fringe 01:37:23.240 --> 01:37:29.400 of the urban core often there are water and sewer line extensions that that are 01:37:29.400 --> 01:37:33.040 needed whereas maybe in the internal there aren't their water and sewer may 01:37:33.040 --> 01:37:39.800 be available so it Richard may want to weigh in but I really don't see um I 01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:45.160 don't see necessarily a break or a difference between because every side is 01:37:45.160 --> 01:37:51.880 unique no the only thing I would say and even with this one I don't recall there 01:37:51.880 --> 01:37:57.340 being a large you know substantial utility extensions I don't think there 01:37:57.340 --> 01:38:01.520 are a lot of public improvements associated with this I would call 01:38:01.520 --> 01:38:07.400 quickly I think the main were the storm sewer extension right and I think he 01:38:07.400 --> 01:38:11.200 also mentioned tearing up the road or something and then having rebuild that 01:38:11.200 --> 01:38:15.760 section of the road I can't remember exactly well if a road within the city 01:38:15.760 --> 01:38:19.920 of Denton doesn't isn't developed to our current standards which is a certain 01:38:19.920 --> 01:38:25.000 width certain pavement thickness and curb and gutter and sidewalk then then 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:30.280 any development adjacent to that road has to complete that section so those 01:38:30.280 --> 01:38:35.200 rules are applying in this case and that the that perimeter street improvement 01:38:35.200 --> 01:38:38.560 would be required as a result of the development okay 01:38:38.560 --> 01:38:45.040 Christian back thank you chair so help me understand why this is before PNC 01:38:45.040 --> 01:38:49.480 tonight simply because they haven't acted on this and you're letting us know 01:38:49.480 --> 01:38:54.040 because they haven't acted on it we're gonna kill this or if they come forward 01:38:54.040 --> 01:38:59.080 asking for more time well they have come forward asking for another extension but 01:38:59.080 --> 01:39:03.320 they haven't provided you the necessary documentation well they haven't they 01:39:03.320 --> 01:39:07.080 have not moved forward with board progress on the development so the 01:39:07.080 --> 01:39:10.880 development contracts any of those requirements associated with the public 01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:17.040 improvement part to get it to plat filing and ultimate development so so 01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:20.400 this is before you tonight because it is at the Planning and Zoning Commission's 01:39:20.400 --> 01:39:26.520 discretion within sub chapter 16 that you can vote to extend an expiring plat 01:39:26.520 --> 01:39:34.360 for good cause so so tonight you'll vote whether to extend that plat or or allow 01:39:34.360 --> 01:39:39.800 it to expire essentially or extend it with with them but the applicant will be 01:39:39.800 --> 01:39:43.440 here to stay this case okay all right thanks 01:39:43.440 --> 01:39:49.640 picture Smith thank you so you it's in the backup and it says in the in the 01:39:49.640 --> 01:39:54.840 applicants letter as well but what do they mean by economic factors do you 01:39:54.840 --> 01:39:58.960 does do you guys see ever made that clear what he he's referencing very very 01:39:58.960 --> 01:40:01.800 vague term of economic factors and of course we can ask the applicants not but 01:40:01.800 --> 01:40:06.040 I never know city staff knew that I am not aware of what his meaning is behind 01:40:06.040 --> 01:40:11.280 that so okay and if we were to if we were to give him another extension what 01:40:11.280 --> 01:40:16.280 would city staffs recommendations be for that would be six months would it be 01:40:16.280 --> 01:40:21.520 I'll confirm in the code but I think it allows for two six-month extensions if 01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:24.760 I'm not mistaken unless I'm thinking of a different different section of the 01:40:24.760 --> 01:40:28.160 code but we'll clarify we'll clarify okay thank you 01:40:28.160 --> 01:40:36.480 Krishna Alice thank you chair so this is expiring January 11th I think right and 01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:40.680 it's gonna follow the old criteria manuals yes it would follow what was 01:40:40.680 --> 01:40:46.720 approved in 2016 and seeing no movement in securing financing and going forward 01:40:46.720 --> 01:40:54.920 with anything just kind of blaze that okay thank you commissioner Burnetta and 01:40:54.920 --> 01:41:00.520 I just wanted to clarify so so the economic factors were vague was the lack 01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:05.360 of completion of the you know public infrastructure is that a factor and then 01:41:05.360 --> 01:41:11.360 postponing it is the process the way the debt and development code lays out for 01:41:11.360 --> 01:41:17.840 for projects within the city is that once a plat is approved they still can't 01:41:17.840 --> 01:41:22.160 move forward with with construction they then have to get a plat filed and in 01:41:22.160 --> 01:41:27.860 order to get a plat file they've got to do certain have certain contracts 01:41:27.860 --> 01:41:33.720 executed as well as bonds and and other agreements associated with those public 01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:38.200 improvements so they have to go through that portion and then that plat can be 01:41:38.200 --> 01:41:53.200 filed to allow them to move forward with development we're gonna look through the 01:41:53.200 --> 01:42:00.740 code and make sure that we're giving you correct direction so well before the 01:42:00.740 --> 01:42:03.960 regular session I'll have that answer for you sir 01:42:03.960 --> 01:42:08.800 Krisha Burnetta so when we discuss the the two extensions are the two 01:42:08.800 --> 01:42:12.840 extensions limited by time like they asked for six months before they could 01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:17.000 have previously asked for a year would they have been eligible for two years or 01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:22.440 simply two extensions I don't I don't think the code is that prescriptive in 01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:27.040 in how this can move forward but I want to verify to make sure that we we give 01:42:27.040 --> 01:42:36.760 you good information so hopefully the code will will tell us I do not see any 01:42:36.760 --> 01:42:43.720 other questions thank you Julie you are up next to that moves us on to public 01:42:43.720 --> 01:42:50.760 hearing item 5a z 18 - 0 0 1 1 a and Julie why it's presenting I have some 01:42:50.760 --> 01:42:55.000 handouts for this one so I'm gonna I'm gonna hand on a commissioner back and if 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:58.720 you'll pass them along 01:42:58.720 --> 01:43:24.800 we received some additional neighbor response this week so I wanted to make 01:43:24.800 --> 01:43:28.760 sure you had all of the available information 01:43:55.800 --> 01:43:58.800 okay 01:44:24.800 --> 01:44:48.320 okay all right so I'm presenting to you the 1811 agave ranch so the request 01:44:48.320 --> 01:44:56.760 before you is to rezone the property from rural residential 5 to neighborhood 01:44:56.760 --> 01:45:02.480 residential 4 and also an initial zoning district designation of nr 4 on 01:45:02.480 --> 01:45:07.920 approximately 92 acres of land subject property is situated on the in the 01:45:07.920 --> 01:45:14.080 northeast side of town it is outside just outside the loop off of FM 428 also 01:45:14.080 --> 01:45:23.000 known as Sherman Drive so under current zoning there's actually a split zoning 01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:31.720 on the subject property adjacent to FM 428 is is an RD 5 zoning district to the 01:45:31.720 --> 01:45:38.640 east of that is an RD 5x district that was annexed at a later time so so they 01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:42.920 essentially followed the same rules that that kind of rural residential minimum 01:45:42.920 --> 01:45:46.600 5 acres but but there is a distinction and that one of them is sort of a 01:45:46.600 --> 01:45:51.620 place-holding zoning designation and one is is an actual zoning designation so 01:45:51.620 --> 01:45:57.080 here is the current zoning there are there's a there's some surrounding 01:45:57.080 --> 01:46:02.240 zoning districts I just want you to take a look at as you get closer to town you 01:46:02.240 --> 01:46:08.040 have in our for adjacent to the subject property the south as well as across FM 01:46:08.040 --> 01:46:15.860 428 there is CMG at the corner of the loop and FM 428 that's supposed to be a 01:46:15.860 --> 01:46:22.380 commercial center there across FM 428 a recent nr 6 was approved with overlay 01:46:22.380 --> 01:46:29.460 conditions and then where where the school property is that's an nr 2 so we 01:46:29.460 --> 01:46:33.960 kind of have a variety as you go further out you've got that RD 5x that is once 01:46:33.960 --> 01:46:37.080 again that place holding zoning designation once that property was 01:46:37.080 --> 01:46:41.760 annexed into the city so they are proposing to extend that neighborhood 01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:45.840 residential for and to zone the entire property with that neighborhood 01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:51.960 residential for that's the proposal today so here is their proposed concept 01:46:51.960 --> 01:46:56.240 plan I'll say always with a word of caution that if this is a concept plan 01:46:56.240 --> 01:47:01.440 you know as if the zoning is approved it would be you know they could develop in 01:47:01.440 --> 01:47:06.000 accordance with that that zoning district the densities and the use is 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:11.520 permitted within it so as they're proposing and on the 92 gross acres of 01:47:11.520 --> 01:47:21.880 land 368 homes generally kind of a mix of lot sizes with some drainage areas 01:47:21.880 --> 01:47:27.000 want to take a quick comparison of the use is permitted under current zoning and 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:32.800 then the nr 4 which is the proposed RD 5x as I said before is one of our 01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:37.640 agricultural our rural agricultural uses so it does permit residential uses a 01:47:37.640 --> 01:47:41.480 couple of commercial land uses particularly those that you typically see 01:47:41.480 --> 01:47:46.720 in agricultural areas things like equestrian facilities a bed and 01:47:46.720 --> 01:47:50.840 breakfast with a limitation kennels veterinary clinics so those are the types 01:47:50.840 --> 01:47:57.080 of uses you see in RD 5 as well as some institutional uses and our floor is one 01:47:57.080 --> 01:48:03.400 of our residential zoning categories so it's primarily focused on that that 01:48:03.400 --> 01:48:09.920 residential component with with single-family dwellings permitted attached 01:48:09.920 --> 01:48:14.480 single-family dwellings with an SUP duplexes have a limitation but they are 01:48:14.480 --> 01:48:19.760 permitted so so and then some institutional uses those are typically 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:25.440 required with an S or require an SUP associated with it the general 01:48:25.440 --> 01:48:30.480 regulations that's the development scale RD 5x the minimum lot size is that 5 01:48:30.480 --> 01:48:37.040 acres minimum lot width of 200 feet maximum lot coverage of 15 percent I 01:48:37.040 --> 01:48:41.680 believe you can go over that for an ag use for something like a barn in our 4 01:48:41.680 --> 01:48:47.200 is a minimum lot area 7,000 square feet for subdivisions under 2 acres of 01:48:47.200 --> 01:48:51.440 course this is a 2a this is more than 2 acres so if this was approved all they 01:48:51.440 --> 01:48:55.800 would have to follow is that maximum density of 4 dwelling units per acre 01:48:55.800 --> 01:49:01.240 maximum lot coverage and that's all impervious surface is 60% maximum building 01:49:01.240 --> 01:49:08.160 height is 40 feet so the criteria for approval for zoning cases is laid out 01:49:08.160 --> 01:49:12.360 in subchapter 3 of the Denton Development Code the first is does the 01:49:12.360 --> 01:49:17.600 proposed rezoning conform to the future land use element of the Denton plan so 01:49:17.600 --> 01:49:23.960 Denton plan 2030 calls for calls this a rural area the intent is to maintain 01:49:23.960 --> 01:49:27.880 that rural character along the city's edge with development of farms and 01:49:27.880 --> 01:49:31.520 ranches and very low density rural residential and conservation 01:49:31.520 --> 01:49:37.640 development the proposed and our four does not meet this this the intent of 01:49:37.640 --> 01:49:41.600 this future land use designation but we also want to make sure that we look at 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:45.800 our comprehensive plan as a whole you can see that there are other future land 01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:55.980 use designations very close to this oh sorry there is community mixed use that 01:49:55.980 --> 01:50:01.940 kind of conforms to that existing zoning pattern at the corner of the loop and FM 01:50:01.940 --> 01:50:08.180 428 low density resident low residential near moderate residential to the 01:50:08.180 --> 01:50:11.720 southwest you can see there's there's a mixture of future land use designations 01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:17.960 in that general area so when when a request does not conform to the future 01:50:17.960 --> 01:50:21.960 land use designation we kick to a whole other criteria for approval and it 01:50:21.960 --> 01:50:25.960 allows a little more scrutiny on the property and on the project and that's 01:50:25.960 --> 01:50:31.440 section thirty five dot three dot three dot a these are listed here and they're 01:50:31.440 --> 01:50:37.600 they're they're described in detail in your backup as well as our analysis we'll 01:50:37.600 --> 01:50:48.320 go over we'll go over some of these together in the in the presentation so 01:50:48.320 --> 01:50:52.840 for criteria one and two it really talks about what are the existing land uses and 01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:58.120 zoning and what is the impact to future development so this subject property is 01:50:58.120 --> 01:51:03.000 located in an area that is there's here's the subject property here that's 01:51:03.000 --> 01:51:08.560 near rural but but urbanizing areas as we've seen with recent zoning cases as 01:51:08.560 --> 01:51:13.800 well as development so all of these yellow dots are either recent zoning 01:51:13.800 --> 01:51:19.920 cases or or or recent development and you can see that there's a lot of a lot 01:51:19.920 --> 01:51:24.800 of growth pushing toward the north side of Denton and and that includes the 01:51:24.800 --> 01:51:30.360 northeast side of Denton so so as that interior part of our city has filled up 01:51:30.360 --> 01:51:35.000 it's really pushing toward that urban fringe and so we can see that 01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:38.840 contiguous growth pattern emerging and that's something that our comp plan 01:51:38.840 --> 01:51:42.360 talks about as we want to see staged growth you don't want to you know you 01:51:42.360 --> 01:51:46.880 want to see the growth move outward in an orderly way and and it's really 01:51:46.880 --> 01:51:52.320 showing it's really showing that pattern as we're looking to this growth and and 01:51:52.320 --> 01:51:58.600 this seems like pretty explosive growth we we we have started planning for that 01:51:58.600 --> 01:52:02.920 potential and and we've done a traffic study and we're going to go over that in 01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:10.360 more detail in just a few minutes so this is also adjacent to existing in our four 01:52:10.360 --> 01:52:14.040 districts so the proposal wouldn't be isolated it is an extension of that 01:52:14.040 --> 01:52:19.560 existing zoning pattern and our four could also create a transition area and 01:52:19.560 --> 01:52:25.080 buffer those those rural areas you can see out to the to the north and also the 01:52:25.080 --> 01:52:30.840 east of the property from you know that that FM 428 corridor and that that loop 01:52:30.840 --> 01:52:35.960 to a court loop to two 88 corridor and especially a lot of that development in 01:52:35.960 --> 01:52:42.520 that area. Commissioner Smith. While you're on the slide the Hartley field 01:52:42.520 --> 01:52:46.680 neighborhood that is down there it's it states that it's in you know I'm looking 01:52:46.680 --> 01:52:51.240 at the backup states that's in the city of Denton but we don't have a zoning for 01:52:51.240 --> 01:52:57.080 it it's it's a tendency but it's an ETJ so there's we have no we have no density 01:52:57.080 --> 01:53:03.400 on that site whatsoever. The part that is doesn't have a color is is in the ETJ so 01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:07.520 we don't have any zoning authority or land use authority within that property 01:53:07.520 --> 01:53:12.880 the the north side of that Hartley field neighborhood it does or that those 01:53:12.880 --> 01:53:16.680 properties right there those are within the city and they do have that RD 5x 01:53:16.680 --> 01:53:20.440 designation so if they did want to come in with the additional densities they 01:53:20.440 --> 01:53:29.000 would have to apply for initial zoning. Thank you. Criteria three talks about 01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:33.640 adequate public improvements and we kind of went by the went we looked at these 01:53:33.640 --> 01:53:38.560 and in a logical manner we're gonna start with transportation first so the 01:53:38.560 --> 01:53:44.640 applicant provided trip generation numbers for their proposal and that per 01:53:44.640 --> 01:53:50.440 their analysis that would generate 30 about 3,500 trips per per day per a 24 01:53:50.440 --> 01:53:58.320 hour weekday AM peak of 280 and 368 as a result of this development and and the 01:53:58.320 --> 01:54:03.040 surrounding developments in that slide we looked at earlier the city 01:54:03.040 --> 01:54:09.120 commissioned a transportation study of the northeast sector of Denton and and 01:54:09.120 --> 01:54:14.000 and we'll look at the next slide will show what that what the preliminary 01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:20.560 results of that that study showed but it essentially their their recommendations 01:54:20.560 --> 01:54:26.160 are to provide more east-west connections toward that northeast part of 01:54:26.160 --> 01:54:33.080 the city also additional travel lanes on existing roads particularly FM 428 and 01:54:33.080 --> 01:54:38.640 improve the intersections I know that that that upcoming improvements to that 01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:44.960 loop 288 and FM 428 intersection are coming especially as part of as all 01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:48.960 these developments are coming in and those would include that dedicated right 01:54:48.960 --> 01:54:55.720 turn and signal at loop 288. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair before you get off 01:54:55.720 --> 01:55:03.440 this slide the 3,500 trips are being generated solely by this 368 or is this 01:55:03.440 --> 01:55:12.700 in conjunction with the shorthand that the ITE manual shows for single-family 01:55:12.700 --> 01:55:18.560 homes is is that single-family homes typically generate 10 trips per day so 01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:21.600 that's kind of just the shorthand I think it's probably there's probably 01:55:21.600 --> 01:55:27.200 decimal places in there but generally that's what their studies have shown 01:55:27.200 --> 01:55:35.080 okay and then the peaks the am and the p.m. peaks represent evidently people 01:55:35.080 --> 01:55:38.600 going to work and coming back from work right those would be those hours where 01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:43.640 people are commuting hours and this this would be it in in addition to what is 01:55:43.640 --> 01:55:48.720 already yes sir okay and it's a lot and that's why the city looked at that 01:55:48.720 --> 01:55:52.840 transportation study because we we looked at all of these cases coming and 01:55:52.840 --> 01:55:56.200 we thought you know this is a really good time to start collaborating with 01:55:56.200 --> 01:56:02.200 our engineering group and and really start looking at what what could go out 01:56:02.200 --> 01:56:05.800 there and and how we should plan for it we're trying to be proactive and what we 01:56:05.800 --> 01:56:10.160 see in that that corridor so here's the draft here's a map from the draft 01:56:10.160 --> 01:56:15.920 transportation study once again it hasn't been fully completed but but we 01:56:15.920 --> 01:56:21.520 wanted to show you this today and so we looked at this entire sector here so 01:56:21.520 --> 01:56:27.760 this kind of fuzzy gray line is the study boundary and the methodology that 01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:36.200 we that we had the the the consultant use to to come up with this plan was to 01:56:36.200 --> 01:56:42.040 assume kind of a four dwelling units per acre residential development out in that 01:56:42.040 --> 01:56:47.400 area plus some areas of commercial nodes especially where you've got especially 01:56:47.400 --> 01:56:54.240 on our arterials in our intersections and so based upon our that methodology 01:56:54.240 --> 01:57:00.640 they they've looked at these general roads that that need to come in this 01:57:00.640 --> 01:57:05.360 this pinky red is our subject site and you could see this is Hartley Field it 01:57:05.360 --> 01:57:10.400 may not be it may be a little too fuzzy but Hartley Field as as a result of 01:57:10.400 --> 01:57:16.960 potential development out there they're recommending to straighten that out to 01:57:16.960 --> 01:57:22.040 to realign that it will actually bisect the subject property and and then we 01:57:22.040 --> 01:57:27.560 continue on to allow that east-west connection more connectivity more places 01:57:27.560 --> 01:57:35.360 for people to get around thank you chair staying with what's being proposed go 01:57:35.360 --> 01:57:42.480 back that one slide again you the traffic signals says dedicated signal at 01:57:42.480 --> 01:57:48.440 loop 288 that wasn't there a traffic signal also dedicated or proposed that 01:57:48.440 --> 01:57:52.520 long road where it intersects with Sherman I thought there were gonna was 01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:58.520 gonna be a light there and because you've got traffic coming out at Hartley 01:57:58.520 --> 01:58:02.160 Field where it does now that's a lot of the concern of the people that live in 01:58:02.160 --> 01:58:09.520 there and having it there allows him to get on to FM 428 then you've got to deal 01:58:09.520 --> 01:58:13.360 with the intersection itself down at the loop so there was no traffic signal 01:58:13.360 --> 01:58:18.200 other than the one at loop 288 I am not aware of any traffic signals at long 01:58:18.200 --> 01:58:24.440 because in discussions with engineering the the long the separation between long 01:58:24.440 --> 01:58:28.040 and loop 288 there's there's there's not enough distance there to really have 01:58:28.040 --> 01:58:31.440 that light there and that's why they liked that alignment of Hartley Field 01:58:31.440 --> 01:58:37.720 because it allows that separation allows for and more just a better flow of 01:58:37.720 --> 01:58:40.960 traffic if that goes through then we could see a traffic light at that 01:58:40.960 --> 01:58:45.640 intersection they are looking at all types of interventions to to make that 01:58:45.640 --> 01:58:50.440 work and to get the traffic flowing through that they've thrown out some 01:58:50.440 --> 01:58:57.160 some some ideas things like signals or maybe even a traffic circle something to 01:58:57.160 --> 01:59:05.760 get the cars moving through that area efficiently and safely okay thank you 01:59:05.760 --> 01:59:13.120 I'm also just to point out that FM the the study recommends that that FM 428 in 01:59:13.120 --> 01:59:20.480 this piece would go to a four lane divided and then with a and then they 01:59:20.480 --> 01:59:24.840 are recommending even a bar above that to preserve right of way for a six lane 01:59:24.840 --> 01:59:29.960 divided roadway for some time in the future that Hartley Road alignment would 01:59:29.960 --> 01:59:35.640 be as as proposed kind of kind of short term and long term short term a two lane 01:59:35.640 --> 01:59:40.600 undivided it would be an arterial but that but to preserve that right of way 01:59:40.600 --> 01:59:50.320 for a four lane divided road to accommodate future growth for it alright 01:59:50.320 --> 01:59:55.320 we looked at other public improvements water and sewer specifically there is 01:59:55.320 --> 02:00:00.800 water near the property and there's a 54 inch water line they can't tap into that 02:00:00.800 --> 02:00:06.160 and directly adjacent to the site so they would have to extend either the 12 02:00:06.160 --> 02:00:10.720 inch from the south or the 12 inch from the north and extend it across the the 02:00:10.720 --> 02:00:16.040 the the frontage of the site they would also have to do sewer extensions that 02:00:16.040 --> 02:00:20.000 red line is is the newest the nearest sewer and they'd have to do a lift 02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:26.280 station to make sure they got the sewer there we'd also talked to Denton ISD we 02:00:26.280 --> 02:00:30.400 wanted to see if there was if there was capacity within the schools they do have 02:00:30.400 --> 02:00:35.440 a formula that they use that based upon the number of homes and what sort numbers 02:00:35.440 --> 02:00:40.760 of students that those generate and right now those the schools within the 02:00:40.760 --> 02:00:45.600 attendance zone do you have adequate capacity for the for any increased 02:00:45.600 --> 02:00:50.840 enrollments associated with the with this subject property and then upon 02:00:50.840 --> 02:00:56.000 development upon platting and then building permits any the developer would 02:00:56.000 --> 02:01:00.680 have to pay a parkland dedication fee upon platting and then a park development 02:01:00.680 --> 02:01:05.000 fee with each residential building permit I should also back up and say with 02:01:05.000 --> 02:01:09.080 transportation roadway impact fees would be associated with every building permit 02:01:09.080 --> 02:01:16.360 which would go toward those system wide public public improvements we also looked 02:01:16.360 --> 02:01:22.800 at the consideration of character and land use when you look at a 360 degree 02:01:22.800 --> 02:01:26.860 view of this site you know it's there's still a lot of rural area around there 02:01:26.860 --> 02:01:31.600 but that existing growth particularly to the south of the subject site suggests 02:01:31.600 --> 02:01:36.720 that that stage development along more major arterials at the urban periphery 02:01:36.720 --> 02:01:43.520 is appropriate and particularly zoning districts like like in our four where 02:01:43.520 --> 02:01:47.960 it's residential development so you keeping that those existing uses there's 02:01:47.960 --> 02:01:52.760 there's residential uses around there so keeping that that same use but a little 02:01:52.760 --> 02:01:58.560 more density than what what you see out there now however when we look at in our 02:01:58.560 --> 02:02:03.160 four there are a couple of uses that are inconsistent with what we feel is out in 02:02:03.160 --> 02:02:07.480 that area and though in particular duplexes and single-family attached which 02:02:07.480 --> 02:02:14.880 are town homes so staff would recommend that if if if approved that an overlay 02:02:14.880 --> 02:02:19.720 condition be put on the zoning to to net those uses out that way it would really 02:02:19.720 --> 02:02:28.320 only be a single-family neighborhood notification was sent out so it's a 02:02:28.320 --> 02:02:31.680 pretty prominent location within the city of Denton we've received quite a 02:02:31.680 --> 02:02:38.800 few letters in opposition we've received a total of 23 responses 20 of them are 02:02:38.800 --> 02:02:46.400 outside of that that 200 foot boundary so the the areas in red are showing 02:02:46.400 --> 02:02:51.120 opposition we have one in favor we're at 13% opposition within that 200 foot 02:02:51.120 --> 02:02:57.480 boundary so based upon staff's analysis of the request and the and the the 02:02:57.480 --> 02:03:01.680 overall didn't plan 2030 and the criteria for approval staff recommends 02:03:01.680 --> 02:03:05.840 approval of the request with the overlay condition that duplexes and 02:03:05.840 --> 02:03:09.600 single-family dwellings oh attached single-family dwellings are not 02:03:09.600 --> 02:03:17.120 permitted and I'll stand for any questions Julia may one clarifying 02:03:17.120 --> 02:03:21.720 question in our four from the city's perspective is considered low density it 02:03:21.720 --> 02:03:27.280 is what are the low density zones in our one which would be essentially one 02:03:27.280 --> 02:03:31.560 dwelling unit per acre in our two two dwelling units per acre in our three 02:03:31.560 --> 02:03:35.400 three and a half dwelling units per acre and then in our four is the four dwelling 02:03:35.400 --> 02:03:39.600 units per acre do we have so in our six that could be centered moderate yes sir 02:03:39.600 --> 02:03:48.180 and then MU MRM you 12 would be moderate would be moderate mm-hmm what's high 02:03:48.180 --> 02:03:53.040 density residential anything above 12 dwelling units per acre I believe that 02:03:53.040 --> 02:04:00.320 the Denton plan 2030 has that up to 12 dwelling units per acre is that moderate 02:04:00.320 --> 02:04:05.280 density anything above that would be considered higher density and I'd risk 02:04:05.280 --> 02:04:10.440 of talking to tertiary that might be better reserved for the public I do want 02:04:10.440 --> 02:04:15.880 to ask this is being recommended by the city not because it meets the future 02:04:15.880 --> 02:04:21.720 land-use map but because you went to these secondary seven criteria and it 02:04:21.720 --> 02:04:27.960 looked to meet those correct I have a concern about the ongoing approval of 02:04:27.960 --> 02:04:33.440 other such property for instance commercial or mixed use we're we are 02:04:33.440 --> 02:04:38.000 potentially proving a lot of homes without any support structure out there 02:04:38.000 --> 02:04:41.280 so they're all coming back into university basically for groceries and 02:04:41.280 --> 02:04:47.360 gas and all this and it doesn't seem by those seven criteria is that a strip 02:04:47.360 --> 02:04:51.480 center that could provide them a McDonald's would be likely to be 02:04:51.480 --> 02:04:56.400 approved by the city and so I'm trying to think through maybe the city's intent 02:04:56.400 --> 02:05:02.200 of how we we are looking in it from a planning perspective of all this land 02:05:02.200 --> 02:05:07.600 that right now seems deemed only be housetops and I would love your input or 02:05:07.600 --> 02:05:11.240 the city's input of of where that balance is going to be considering the 02:05:11.240 --> 02:05:17.880 approval criteria listed so the comprehensive plan was adopted in 2015 02:05:17.880 --> 02:05:22.320 and I really think it probably contemplated a bit slower growth within 02:05:22.320 --> 02:05:26.560 the city of Denton it really did call for stage growth and filling in the 02:05:26.560 --> 02:05:31.080 center part of Denton before we go to that urban edge that periphery and it 02:05:31.080 --> 02:05:35.280 just happened it seemed to have happened a lot faster than anticipated and so I 02:05:35.280 --> 02:05:42.840 expect we kick those same questions around on staff because this whole this 02:05:42.840 --> 02:05:48.280 whole area to the north really was just deemed rural and so how should it grow 02:05:48.280 --> 02:05:53.440 responsibly and with in keeping with our vision and so I think we're probably 02:05:53.440 --> 02:05:57.640 going to have to have future conversations associated with our future 02:05:57.640 --> 02:06:04.240 land use map and and maybe start start looking at where we're going because we 02:06:04.240 --> 02:06:08.080 got we got there a little sooner than we expected yeah I just wonder what what 02:06:08.080 --> 02:06:12.560 mechanisms we have apart from updating the flume to actually provide these 02:06:12.560 --> 02:06:16.360 residents direction because I'm sure a lot of this feedback comes from fear of 02:06:16.360 --> 02:06:22.000 the what-ifs are gonna happen I can I can imagine that seeing all this being 02:06:22.000 --> 02:06:26.720 rural but us improving non rural I guess this is low density but non rural 02:06:26.720 --> 02:06:30.840 activities it's hard for any of the residents to know what's gonna happen to 02:06:30.840 --> 02:06:35.480 the next property or so without using the future land use and using these 02:06:35.480 --> 02:06:39.720 criterias I don't know how we can I would like to know how we can better 02:06:39.720 --> 02:06:45.080 serve the citizens to know what the city's intent for planning perspective is 02:06:45.080 --> 02:06:50.080 actually going on and I don't know how to do that I'm looking at Richard you 02:06:50.080 --> 02:06:54.280 may want to weigh in on this yeah it might be good if we had the and we could 02:06:54.280 --> 02:06:57.480 probably bring this back maybe even for the next not necessarily this agenda 02:06:57.480 --> 02:07:03.600 item but but this discussion and it might be I can also see maybe if pre 02:07:03.600 --> 02:07:08.520 Tim can also attend one it one of the things when we when we approached the 02:07:08.520 --> 02:07:13.880 that traffic analysis we wanted to make sure we were linking the two were in the 02:07:13.880 --> 02:07:17.360 past you know there was this mobility plan and we often question because 02:07:17.360 --> 02:07:21.240 you'll see these squiggly lines all over the place that don't really make sense 02:07:21.240 --> 02:07:25.960 and so as we started looking at that we wanted to make sure that as we grow 02:07:25.960 --> 02:07:31.880 things are being planned for properly and and so looking as we started mapping 02:07:31.880 --> 02:07:35.580 and seeing where the transportation network is that's where we started 02:07:35.580 --> 02:07:39.440 looking at okay what makes sense where should those commercial areas be what 02:07:39.440 --> 02:07:43.320 are the distances between where we know we have some commercial property now at 02:07:43.320 --> 02:07:47.720 the loop but then what is the next major intersection how can we start and so 02:07:47.720 --> 02:07:51.800 that's kind of that approach that we started with transportation and and I 02:07:51.800 --> 02:07:57.480 shouldn't say what you're gonna see shortly after the DDC and zoning map 02:07:57.480 --> 02:08:02.280 update will be that will be the update to the 2030 plan and really you know we 02:08:02.280 --> 02:08:06.680 started to I want to take Julie's thunder but she started really doing an analysis 02:08:06.680 --> 02:08:11.040 really part of this project of what do we have left in this kind of inside the 02:08:11.040 --> 02:08:16.040 circle and there's not much left but also if we're going to continue to grow 02:08:16.040 --> 02:08:20.760 let's let's try to let's not wait and kind of let's not wait and see let's 02:08:20.760 --> 02:08:25.800 let's be a little bit more proactive but also now starting to if this is where 02:08:25.800 --> 02:08:29.960 the growth is gonna go do we wait for these road improvements or do we or do 02:08:29.960 --> 02:08:34.520 we look at a different way to fund them yeah and real quick and then the other 02:08:34.520 --> 02:08:40.660 commissioners seem to have things if we know it now I'll ask for it if not if we 02:08:40.660 --> 02:08:43.760 can have it for the public hearing is oftentimes we talk about road 02:08:43.760 --> 02:08:47.400 improvements signal lights if there's any timelines to do things that we can 02:08:47.400 --> 02:08:52.000 provide the citizens say a signal light will be at Luke 288 and Sherman in nine 02:08:52.000 --> 02:08:57.600 months that would be super helpful for both us to know and for the citizens 02:08:57.600 --> 02:09:01.860 who are here or who have responded to kind of understand oftentimes it's a 02:09:01.860 --> 02:09:05.880 little ambiguous and it's on mobility map but we don't know when the bond any 02:09:05.880 --> 02:09:10.480 of that so if do you have any timelines at any of the infrastructure not right 02:09:10.480 --> 02:09:15.400 now okay I suspect we will within honestly hopefully next week we'll start 02:09:15.400 --> 02:09:19.640 that discussion that was a meeting I had earlier today is is really looking at 02:09:19.640 --> 02:09:23.480 all of all of the development that we have all of our transportation needs and 02:09:23.480 --> 02:09:27.520 really where where is the growth occurring and how can we that was 02:09:27.520 --> 02:09:30.200 something that the city manager really wanted to make sure that that we were 02:09:30.200 --> 02:09:34.000 moving forward on rather than kind of what's happened in the past where we 02:09:34.000 --> 02:09:37.560 where we kind of just kind of sat back and waited for the for the impact fee 02:09:37.560 --> 02:09:41.760 money to come in well by that time it's kind of too late and so now it's really 02:09:41.760 --> 02:09:47.560 looking more proactively and how can we address this once we get that formulated 02:09:47.560 --> 02:09:50.400 I think that's what would be better better off to answer these exact 02:09:50.400 --> 02:09:54.040 questions both for the Commission to make informed decisions but also for the 02:09:54.040 --> 02:09:57.600 residents so they have an idea of what what what to expect sir 02:09:57.600 --> 02:10:02.040 Krister back thank you chair and kind of jump into that same conversation there 02:10:02.040 --> 02:10:05.960 about what to do this and I'm gonna probably have to lean on Richard here 02:10:05.960 --> 02:10:12.480 because in the DDC the rewrite committee I think we were actually looking at 02:10:12.480 --> 02:10:19.040 giving this a new zoning designation of suburban corridor which would entail 02:10:19.040 --> 02:10:25.680 mixed use stuff and I was going to raise that tonight too that as chairman 02:10:25.680 --> 02:10:29.800 Roselle state we're putting in houses out there but we're not we're not building 02:10:29.800 --> 02:10:34.720 commercial uses that they can benefit from without having to come into town or 02:10:34.720 --> 02:10:41.560 go to the Golden Triangle and law so is that I mean I know we're just looking at 02:10:41.560 --> 02:10:46.120 it in the the rewrite committee but I mean isn't that a possibility too that 02:10:46.120 --> 02:10:50.720 this is going to conflict with filling these houses that if we zone this that 02:10:50.720 --> 02:10:58.200 suburban corridor this sets outside of that even if it is mixed use mixed use 02:10:58.200 --> 02:11:01.720 is really talking about putting some commercial stuff in there which it needs 02:11:01.720 --> 02:11:07.200 out there and I think we if I may yeah it's really as I was a little more 02:11:07.200 --> 02:11:12.440 strategic I think as we start to really you know I think what helped with this 02:11:12.440 --> 02:11:16.520 area in particular is the transportation study because rather than just really 02:11:16.520 --> 02:11:21.160 just making some general assumptions of let's zone it this we were actually able 02:11:21.160 --> 02:11:25.280 to really look into all right well how was this network I mean it because it 02:11:25.280 --> 02:11:30.960 doesn't exist and so what makes the most logical sense and if you see where 02:11:30.960 --> 02:11:37.480 I guess I'll call it Road F if you will really looking at well unfortunately it 02:11:37.480 --> 02:11:44.000 it bisects this property as it as it continues west we're trying to align 02:11:44.000 --> 02:11:47.800 these where they where they run boundary lines so we're not we're not cutting 02:11:47.800 --> 02:11:52.760 through the middle middle of properties but that's that Stark Farms to the south 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:59.080 to the north DISD owns that owns that property whether they'll ever develop a 02:11:59.080 --> 02:12:04.400 school there who knows it may come sooner than later but those are and so 02:12:04.400 --> 02:12:09.320 we're looking at also who owns the property and so we can understand what 02:12:09.320 --> 02:12:13.600 what reasonably to expect there is it you can go back to even the zoning map 02:12:13.600 --> 02:12:18.240 because there is it there's a lot of commercial sort of right at that at no 02:12:18.240 --> 02:12:24.840 now that's undeveloped so there is there is some available commercial within that 02:12:24.840 --> 02:12:28.960 CMG but I think it's just looking at that at that space you can get it getting a 02:12:28.960 --> 02:12:33.600 better understanding of how it can best fit as we as we start to rezone it do 02:12:33.600 --> 02:12:40.280 we have the right away already for this Hartley Field extension no no okay 02:12:40.280 --> 02:12:46.600 Mr. Smith nature just what is the latest on the DDE I know it's off-topic but it 02:12:46.600 --> 02:12:50.240 really is German I promise where the latest in the DDC where we close to set 02:12:50.240 --> 02:12:57.320 on getting the DDC rewrite back to us we should have the public draft the 12th 02:12:57.320 --> 02:13:03.920 around around the 12th February next month and then that and and how far away 02:13:03.920 --> 02:13:06.240 is that from being approved I'm just thinking it from the standpoint of of 02:13:06.240 --> 02:13:11.720 this this item in light of what Commissioner Beck has brought up how if 02:13:11.720 --> 02:13:16.960 we if we something it'd be two months and then there's brand new brand new 02:13:16.960 --> 02:13:20.800 ideas for zoning around this area that we just approved or I suspect we're 02:13:20.800 --> 02:13:25.240 probably looking at May okay at the earliest all right thank you 02:13:25.240 --> 02:13:28.440 Mr. Cole 02:13:28.440 --> 02:13:41.440 so should we wait and to see more definite the infrastructure situation or 02:13:41.440 --> 02:13:49.440 I mean because they're all right I mean we're jumping into this not knowing you 02:13:49.440 --> 02:13:54.560 know what's going to you know it seems like we're okay in this before it needs 02:13:54.560 --> 02:13:59.160 to be I mean and and with and with it I mean I don't want to say don't you know 02:13:59.160 --> 02:14:04.800 don't do it or to do it we looked at it as at this point where we're just I don't 02:14:04.800 --> 02:14:08.520 look for the lack of a better kind of changing the color of the map to allow 02:14:08.520 --> 02:14:13.280 the residential but at least it gives us the idea that took to plan because now 02:14:13.280 --> 02:14:17.200 we our assumptions are kind of what we what we thought it might be and if I can 02:14:17.200 --> 02:14:20.600 interject Chris recall I think that question would be great to be held in 02:14:20.600 --> 02:14:26.920 public session and I think we can all weigh in on that exact question 02:14:26.920 --> 02:14:31.120 Christian Pernetta so one thing I'm really curious about is you know we 02:14:31.120 --> 02:14:34.240 talked about the traffic that was generated right in that area right so 02:14:34.240 --> 02:14:40.480 it's about 3,400 trips and I guess my question is how centralized is it to 02:14:40.480 --> 02:14:45.480 that because because as chair mentioned there's no grocery stores in anywhere 02:14:45.480 --> 02:14:49.840 around there right so if there's 3,400 trips that are coming in well they're 02:14:49.840 --> 02:14:53.200 gonna hit 288 and they're actually gonna have to go pretty far out or they're 02:14:53.200 --> 02:14:57.320 gonna have to go down Sherman all the way to the Kroger on University which 02:14:57.320 --> 02:15:01.640 creates a lot of traffic downstream that we don't have a count on right there 02:15:01.640 --> 02:15:07.160 until we have things where people can go like I said just get a gallon of milk or 02:15:07.160 --> 02:15:12.960 something like that do we have any idea of what the impacts would be because 02:15:12.960 --> 02:15:18.760 because like I said from that area I don't see where anybody's gonna be able 02:15:18.760 --> 02:15:24.520 to go get some basic necessities outside of that specific spot on University it 02:15:24.520 --> 02:15:29.600 makes no sense for them to hit any other direction um you're right there aren't a 02:15:29.600 --> 02:15:34.640 lot of services out there and a lot of retail I suspect that as more rooftops 02:15:34.640 --> 02:15:41.000 come in that area that their retail will will probably fill in that corner there 02:15:41.000 --> 02:15:49.640 that corner there at at the loop and 428 has has been zoned commercial for many 02:15:49.640 --> 02:15:56.080 many years and hasn't developed so I you know I I can't I can time will tell but 02:15:56.080 --> 02:16:01.440 but you're right there aren't aren't a lot of a lot of retail options for them 02:16:01.440 --> 02:16:11.880 in that in that area right now thank you great I don't see any other questions 02:16:12.240 --> 02:16:32.760 thank you Julie Haley the next presentation long sure should be for 02:16:32.760 --> 02:16:41.200 dinner let's go ahead and break at 555 for five minutes to grab some food we'll 02:16:41.200 --> 02:16:50.520 meet back here at six thank you for that break it is now 603 will reconvene with 02:16:50.520 --> 02:17:00.360 item 5b Z 18 - 17 B and Haley will be presenting this is a zoning case for 02:17:00.360 --> 02:17:06.760 lakeside place the request before you is kind of twofold it is a request for an 02:17:06.760 --> 02:17:11.880 initial zoning designation of NR for on approximately 86 acres of land as well 02:17:11.880 --> 02:17:18.520 as a rezoning of approximately six acres from NR 2 to NR for so looking at that 02:17:18.520 --> 02:17:22.360 breakdown you can see here the hatched area being the larger portion that's 02:17:22.360 --> 02:17:26.920 currently RD 5 X so it's got that initial placeholder zoning recently 02:17:26.920 --> 02:17:30.960 annexed into the city in November and then the six acres is this little far 02:17:30.960 --> 02:17:34.600 northern corner of the site that's currently zoned NR 2 so the proposal 02:17:34.600 --> 02:17:38.640 would be to take this to NR for and you can see the surrounding areas a mixture 02:17:38.640 --> 02:17:43.320 of low density residential districts with a little commercial development or 02:17:43.320 --> 02:17:48.680 commercial zoning across the railroad tracks so when we look at a rezoning we 02:17:48.680 --> 02:17:52.320 have two primary criteria for approval the first being rather the rezoning 02:17:52.320 --> 02:17:56.480 conforms to the future land use element of our Denton plan 2030 the second being 02:17:56.480 --> 02:18:02.280 if the proposed rezoning facilitates the adequate provision of infrastructure so 02:18:02.280 --> 02:18:06.040 looking at that first criteria the future land use map designates this area 02:18:06.040 --> 02:18:11.880 for low residential that is an area or a designation intended to promote single 02:18:11.880 --> 02:18:17.120 family housing with lot sizes ranging from one home per acre up in our more 02:18:17.120 --> 02:18:23.400 rural areas to up to four units per acre closer within the city so this NR for 02:18:23.400 --> 02:18:27.000 district does have a maximum density of four units per acre so it does fall 02:18:27.000 --> 02:18:30.840 within that range and therefore is consistent with that future land use 02:18:30.840 --> 02:18:37.040 designation the second criteria being the adequate infrastructure so this 02:18:37.040 --> 02:18:41.320 site currently has an 8-inch water line I apologize it may be a little hard to 02:18:41.320 --> 02:18:45.040 see here but this dashed line is a newly installed 8-inch water line that would 02:18:45.040 --> 02:18:49.360 be available to the site and then they have a 10-inch sewer line here at the 02:18:49.360 --> 02:18:54.240 northern terminus of Creepdale as well as an 8-inch sewer stub out here at the 02:18:54.240 --> 02:18:59.680 I guess that'd be the eastern end of Creepdale looking at transportation 02:18:59.680 --> 02:19:05.480 things get a little more complicated so our mobility plan shows two roads kind 02:19:05.480 --> 02:19:09.280 of bisecting the site one of those was intended to be an extension of Hickory 02:19:09.280 --> 02:19:13.160 Creek that would curve up north of the floodplain and then the other was the 02:19:13.160 --> 02:19:18.280 extension of Creepdale to connect these two end points that we have today so the 02:19:18.280 --> 02:19:23.440 applicant has done a kind of an early traffic impact analysis they needed to 02:19:23.440 --> 02:19:26.020 do a little additional work on it as they move forward with plotting the 02:19:26.020 --> 02:19:29.360 property but what it gave us some good ideas of what needs to occur in this 02:19:29.360 --> 02:19:34.440 area so the applicant through that TIA has agreed that they will provide for 02:19:34.440 --> 02:19:38.240 the improvements on Hickory Creek and will extend Creepdale to match the 02:19:38.240 --> 02:19:43.320 mobility plan the TIA did reveal that it makes a little more sense in this area 02:19:43.320 --> 02:19:47.840 for rather than realigning Hickory Creek this way to go ahead and keep it on its 02:19:47.840 --> 02:19:51.160 more current path go kind of straight through the floodplain and eventually 02:19:51.160 --> 02:19:57.600 connect this with Brush Creek now that is kind of a larger endeavor since a lot of 02:19:57.600 --> 02:20:01.960 that road is in the county currently so much like Julie just discussed with that 02:20:01.960 --> 02:20:05.360 kind of regional traffic study our engineering department is looking at 02:20:05.360 --> 02:20:10.400 kicking off a similar study very soon for this Ryan Road Hickory Creek area to 02:20:10.400 --> 02:20:14.280 kind of pull all these groups together the city the county and really determine 02:20:14.280 --> 02:20:17.800 what's the best plan for these roads in this area as we move forward 02:20:17.800 --> 02:20:23.480 I'm gonna interject real fast and then looks like Commissioner Beck this might 02:20:23.480 --> 02:20:26.560 be a little too soon but given what happened this morning on Hickory Creek 02:20:26.560 --> 02:20:33.800 I'm really sensitive to what's going on here I have a lot of thoughts on it but 02:20:33.800 --> 02:20:39.840 but to maybe make it more pointed what's the time delay in just changing where 02:20:39.840 --> 02:20:44.960 that road should be in the red dots to this new idea because I have some 02:20:44.960 --> 02:20:50.240 serious concern putting any more traffic on that road as it currently exists it's 02:20:50.240 --> 02:20:56.120 it's it's a it's a nightmare it's a danger so what's are we adding years to 02:20:56.120 --> 02:20:58.840 a timeline of Hickory Creek to get that taken care of or what do we what are we 02:20:58.840 --> 02:21:02.280 talking about in timeline of these the intent the red dash line is what our 02:21:02.280 --> 02:21:06.200 mobility plan currently calls for through their TIA and then through this future 02:21:06.200 --> 02:21:10.960 study that Preetam and his team are hoping to kick off very soon the plan is 02:21:10.960 --> 02:21:15.840 to just scratch that off the mobility plan so imagine that red line is no 02:21:15.840 --> 02:21:18.680 longer crossing the property here they wouldn't be dedicating the right of way 02:21:18.680 --> 02:21:22.640 for that roadway along the floodplain instead they would be accommodating the 02:21:22.640 --> 02:21:25.920 improvements on their frontage with the intent that Hickory Creek would punch 02:21:25.920 --> 02:21:30.320 through in some alignment through this general area to connect with Brush Creek 02:21:30.320 --> 02:21:34.480 and make a more direct East West arterial on the south side of the city 02:21:34.480 --> 02:21:38.600 someday. Commissioner Bec, did you have anything? 02:21:38.600 --> 02:21:47.400 If you can just touch on the two CIP projects. Yeah yeah so in addition to 02:21:47.400 --> 02:21:51.840 that study there are two projects currently in the planning for CIP to 02:21:51.840 --> 02:21:55.640 widen the existing Hickory Creek to a four-lane divided roadway so it's kind 02:21:55.640 --> 02:21:59.400 of being handled as a two-phase project I believe that's East and West of Teasley 02:21:59.400 --> 02:22:05.040 that would bring the four-lane divided up here to River Pass and part of their 02:22:05.040 --> 02:22:08.720 TIA called for this property as they move forward with platting to coordinate 02:22:08.720 --> 02:22:12.200 with that and try to figure out how to get that four-lane divided roadway 02:22:12.200 --> 02:22:15.360 extended a little bit further than what the CIP plans intended. Gotcha but as 02:22:15.360 --> 02:22:18.560 soon as they cross the road tracks it's down to that two-lane road again. Correct 02:22:18.560 --> 02:22:22.680 that part being in the county is currently outside of our control but it 02:22:22.680 --> 02:22:24.800 is something that our engineering department is coordinating with the 02:22:24.800 --> 02:22:35.120 county on. So as I mentioned that the TIA they submitted well fairly thorough 02:22:35.120 --> 02:22:38.640 wasn't quite enough yet because we don't have a conceptual layout for the 02:22:38.640 --> 02:22:41.960 subdivision so as they move forward with preliminary platting the applicants 02:22:41.960 --> 02:22:45.600 aware that we'll be asking them to update that TIA once they know their 02:22:45.600 --> 02:22:48.680 their ultimate plan for the lot layout so that we can look at these 02:22:48.680 --> 02:22:53.920 transportation improvements more closely at that time and as I mentioned the site 02:22:53.920 --> 02:22:58.400 also recently annexed into the city and through that process DISD is contacted 02:22:58.400 --> 02:23:01.680 and they have confirmed that the schools in this area would be able to accommodate 02:23:01.680 --> 02:23:04.880 the additional students that would be expected to be generated through this 02:23:04.880 --> 02:23:10.240 project. Notifications were sent regarding this case as you can see here 02:23:10.240 --> 02:23:14.460 on the map we received two responses in favor one of those came in since the 02:23:14.460 --> 02:23:19.160 agenda was published so I have placed that at the table for you to review but 02:23:19.160 --> 02:23:22.360 you can see those two properties one being north of the site and the other 02:23:22.360 --> 02:23:28.480 here along their western boundary. Staff is recommending approval of this 02:23:28.480 --> 02:23:32.280 request as it's consistent with the surrounding properties and consistent 02:23:32.280 --> 02:23:34.600 with our goals and objectives from the Denton plan and meets those two 02:23:34.600 --> 02:23:37.640 criteria as they were described here and I'm happy to stand for any other 02:23:37.640 --> 02:23:43.880 questions. Mr. Beck. Thank you Chair. Haley the fact that there's three active 02:23:43.880 --> 02:23:48.060 gases on the site is that was that not brought up because this is the zone 02:23:48.060 --> 02:23:53.220 change request that the gas site locations will be? It's expected that 02:23:53.220 --> 02:23:57.000 since the site annexed into the city it would comply with our standard gas wall 02:23:57.000 --> 02:24:00.640 regulations in terms of notifications. Okay but we'd be dealing with it more 02:24:00.640 --> 02:24:05.720 detailed should this thing go through? The standard process for a site 02:24:05.720 --> 02:24:08.240 like this would be once they get to the preliminary platting stage we would 02:24:08.240 --> 02:24:12.440 ensure that they have the proper notifications and setbacks and things of 02:24:12.440 --> 02:24:15.840 that nature on the plat. It's typically not something that we would deal with at 02:24:15.840 --> 02:24:20.920 zoning but okay. Not that you may know this just curious do we know if the 02:24:20.920 --> 02:24:25.200 developers have been talking with the gas well operators about? Yes there's 02:24:25.200 --> 02:24:28.400 actually a gas well plat that covers the site so they've been I believe Eagle 02:24:28.400 --> 02:24:30.920 Ridge is the operator and they've been in correspondence with them throughout 02:24:30.920 --> 02:24:41.000 this process. Good thank you. Any other questions? Great thank you. 02:24:41.000 --> 02:24:52.320 Next item is 5CZ18-0023 and I'll invite Julie Wyatt for presentation. 02:25:12.000 --> 02:25:21.920 No. All right so this is Z18-23 Worthington Treffport. So the request 02:25:21.920 --> 02:25:28.000 before you is a rezoning from regional center commercial downtown to an ECI 02:25:28.000 --> 02:25:33.400 employment center industrial zoning district on approximately 8.7 acres of 02:25:33.400 --> 02:25:39.800 land and that's this site right here and a change in the zoning from regional 02:25:39.800 --> 02:25:44.840 center commercial neighborhood RCCN in this location to that ECI as well. So the 02:25:44.840 --> 02:25:54.920 request is to to go from those regional zoning districts to ECI. The current 02:25:54.920 --> 02:25:59.180 zoning as I said before has those regional commercial zoning districts on 02:25:59.180 --> 02:26:04.640 the subject property. It's a total of 16 acres but there are there are two lots 02:26:04.640 --> 02:26:10.720 with those separate zoning designations. Surrounding the subject property from 02:26:10.720 --> 02:26:16.960 from the the western boundary toward I-35 you see a lot of regional zoning as 02:26:16.960 --> 02:26:23.120 well as it started to go to that ECI district. So across the street there's ECI 02:26:23.120 --> 02:26:28.360 and those have been recent zoning cases. There's ICG to the south and to the 02:26:28.360 --> 02:26:34.120 west of the subject site is NR2. The proposal is just to extend that existing 02:26:34.120 --> 02:26:42.200 ECI to the subject property. Here's the concept plan they're really looking to 02:26:42.200 --> 02:26:46.920 expand the existing development. This is the existing development on the the 02:26:46.920 --> 02:26:50.920 southern part of the site. They're not looking to change that what they want to 02:26:50.920 --> 02:26:56.840 do is add some storage uses to the to the north portion of the site. Always my 02:26:56.840 --> 02:27:01.960 word of caution this is not set in stone if they if the zoning were approved they 02:27:01.960 --> 02:27:06.400 could develop with any of the uses permitted within ECI at the scale 02:27:06.400 --> 02:27:11.280 permitted within that zoning district. So the criteria for approval as I said 02:27:11.280 --> 02:27:14.560 before is in step chapter 3. First does it conform to the future land use and 02:27:14.560 --> 02:27:19.280 then second does it does it is there adequate provision of public facilities. 02:27:19.280 --> 02:27:25.240 So first let's take the debt and plan. This area is is within a business 02:27:25.240 --> 02:27:28.600 innovation future land use and and there's quite a bit of business 02:27:28.600 --> 02:27:33.520 innovation around it. The intent is for those well-planned large-scale office 02:27:33.520 --> 02:27:38.280 and employment uses. It can also include supporting uses such as retail hotel and 02:27:38.280 --> 02:27:44.560 and residential. So as we see often we have we have quite a bit of business 02:27:44.560 --> 02:27:48.080 innovation as a future land use within the city of Denton and we see a variety 02:27:48.080 --> 02:27:53.240 of zoning districts. ECC and ECI are our primary zoning districts within that 02:27:53.240 --> 02:27:58.800 future land use but sometimes there are also those those commercial and that the 02:27:58.800 --> 02:28:04.480 uses associated with ECI are consistent with that future land use designation. 02:28:04.480 --> 02:28:09.160 They have a they have a broad array of light industrial warehousing and 02:28:09.160 --> 02:28:18.240 employment type uses as well as those supporting commercial uses. When looking 02:28:18.240 --> 02:28:22.960 at the public improvements we looked at transportation that the applicant did a 02:28:22.960 --> 02:28:27.480 trip generation for the proposed use. It's a pretty low-intensity use as far 02:28:27.480 --> 02:28:33.280 as traffic so it's anticipated to to generate 95 trips on that undeveloped 02:28:33.280 --> 02:28:36.640 portion because that's the portion that they would develop in association with 02:28:36.640 --> 02:28:41.960 the requested zoning. The peak hour would be 20 trips so that that doesn't reach 02:28:41.960 --> 02:28:46.120 the threshold of the TIA. Typically engineering wants to see at least a 02:28:46.120 --> 02:28:52.000 thousand trips generation generated a day before that TIA is done. 02:28:52.000 --> 02:29:21.960 Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. Does any of this, is all transportation pretty much going to be coming off I-35? The concern we're seeing from homeowners is that it's going back behind. So when we're looking at this information it's reflecting on what's coming in from I-35, not from the back side. Is that right? Correct and we'll talk about that. So so yes it you know that the streets the street that the the subject property is on it 02:29:21.960 --> 02:29:27.560 connects to I-35 it also connects to University so the anticipated traffic is 02:29:27.560 --> 02:29:32.600 from those two areas. Additionally there's a railroad track on the on the Western 02:29:32.600 --> 02:29:37.480 property line and and there's there's not going to be a connection for this site 02:29:37.480 --> 02:29:51.840 between between this site and those residential areas. Be sure and bring that up in the public area. Other findings associated with this so it is it is a 02:29:51.840 --> 02:29:58.280 logical continuation of that surrounding zoning and use pattern. That that area 02:29:58.280 --> 02:30:03.720 sandwiched between the railroad track track and I-35 really has developed with 02:30:03.720 --> 02:30:09.920 employment type uses that set back off of I-35 so this general area is those 02:30:09.920 --> 02:30:15.080 employment uses then those those parcels that have the frontage of I-35 we're 02:30:15.080 --> 02:30:19.640 seeing developed with commercial uses those uses that want the visibility of 02:30:19.640 --> 02:30:26.680 highway of a highway corridor so this this rezoning is a continuation of that 02:30:26.680 --> 02:30:32.760 use or that that zoning and land use pattern. But we like in the last one we 02:30:32.760 --> 02:30:37.040 want to take a 360 degree view of the side and we want to look not only what's 02:30:37.040 --> 02:30:42.800 in front of the side but what's behind it and and there is a very low density 02:30:42.800 --> 02:30:47.240 single-family neighborhood adjacent to the side and and the dent plant really 02:30:47.240 --> 02:30:52.360 calls for sensitivity to these to these areas so we looked at that we wanted to 02:30:52.360 --> 02:30:55.680 make sure that was a part of our analysis and what we really determined 02:30:55.680 --> 02:30:59.480 that because of that railroad and actually it's elevated it's actually on 02:30:59.480 --> 02:31:04.360 top of a berm it is the the site is physically separated from that 02:31:04.360 --> 02:31:09.720 residential neighborhood and it won't it won't connect to that neighborhood. The 02:31:09.720 --> 02:31:15.600 industrial uses within ECR are our lower impact our our light industrial uses 02:31:15.600 --> 02:31:21.480 they're not those heavy industrial or those those uses that cause a lot more 02:31:21.480 --> 02:31:27.080 off-site impacts and and it's actually nets out some of those higher intensity 02:31:27.080 --> 02:31:32.000 commercial uses that are within the existing zoning districts for instance 02:31:32.000 --> 02:31:36.600 under current zoning motels would be permitted so this would actually pull 02:31:36.600 --> 02:31:41.800 out some of those uses that would would would also generate commercial type 02:31:41.800 --> 02:31:46.400 impacts. The development scale in ECI and the existing zoning is compare 02:31:46.400 --> 02:31:50.440 comparable so anything that would be built on the site visually would would 02:31:50.440 --> 02:31:55.400 be somewhat similar and then there when when it develops there will be design 02:31:55.400 --> 02:32:01.780 standards associated with it so things like a minimum tree canopy of 30% 02:32:01.780 --> 02:32:06.480 screening at the right-of-way all of those elements associated with site 02:32:06.480 --> 02:32:12.840 design those would apply to any development on the site. Commissioner Beck would 02:32:12.840 --> 02:32:16.600 can you address any noise impact here again that seems to be one of the 02:32:16.600 --> 02:32:23.640 concerns that this may develop more noise is that um you know and and when 02:32:23.640 --> 02:32:29.440 you look at those uses that are in RCCD and RCCN and ECI I believe they're 02:32:29.440 --> 02:32:35.040 comparable in the maybe generation of noise light all of those kind of off-site 02:32:35.040 --> 02:32:40.880 impacts you typically see so the you know the good news about this site is 02:32:40.880 --> 02:32:45.880 there is a regional drainage area on the west side of the property so that is 02:32:45.880 --> 02:32:52.200 anticipated to remain so if you actually look at their concept plan right now 02:32:52.200 --> 02:32:55.520 there is this drainage area and so the the western part of the site isn't 02:32:55.520 --> 02:33:01.440 anticipated anticipated to develop and once again the site has to be 30% tree 02:33:01.440 --> 02:33:06.440 canopy so there will be those those that landscaping that will help mute things 02:33:06.440 --> 02:33:13.400 like light and noise. Commissioner Smith. When you say storage use are they saying self 02:33:13.400 --> 02:33:17.240 storage uses or storage use of their materials and their product and that kind of thing? 02:33:17.240 --> 02:33:26.600 Right now they are anticipating a trucks and the applicant will be here. Not under 02:33:26.600 --> 02:33:30.800 what I understand the applicant will be here so they may be able to provide you 02:33:30.800 --> 02:33:39.200 more information. And the applicant is also the owner of 02:33:39.200 --> 02:33:43.400 the property meaning that it's not I guess I shouldn't say that the applicant 02:33:43.400 --> 02:33:47.000 is the one who's actually gonna be the one who's building and managing that 02:33:47.000 --> 02:33:49.880 property it's it's it's their own property they're just trying to make an 02:33:49.880 --> 02:33:53.000 addition to their property that's not already allowed in their zoning so 02:33:53.000 --> 02:33:56.440 they're not changing the zoning and then selling it to a developer that kind of 02:33:56.440 --> 02:33:59.880 thing we've seen in some cases. It is it's my understanding and they are here 02:33:59.880 --> 02:34:03.280 that the applicant doesn't currently own the property they did get owner 02:34:03.280 --> 02:34:06.920 authorization for the current property owners but they are in contract to 02:34:06.920 --> 02:34:11.600 purchase the property in order to expand their existing business on it so the 02:34:11.600 --> 02:34:15.560 applicant would would be the developer in this case as they presented to the 02:34:15.560 --> 02:34:22.680 staff. So this is just a snapshot of the comparison of the uses so it might be a 02:34:22.680 --> 02:34:29.220 little hard to see but RCCN is the first column RCCD and then ECI so when you 02:34:29.220 --> 02:34:34.640 just look at the zoning districts RCCN and RCCD are intended to provide 02:34:34.640 --> 02:34:40.240 regional shopping regional commercial development as well as high high density 02:34:40.240 --> 02:34:45.520 residential so it does have residential uses ECI actually nets out those 02:34:45.520 --> 02:34:50.520 residential uses residential is not permitted in ECI they both they all 02:34:50.520 --> 02:34:58.720 three have comparable commercial land uses ECI does does not permit things 02:34:58.720 --> 02:35:03.960 like motels and movie theaters so it does have a little bit different mix of 02:35:03.960 --> 02:35:09.360 those commercial uses but it does allow things like offices industrial land uses 02:35:09.360 --> 02:35:16.000 ECI has has more industrial land uses than do RCCN and RCCD but as I said 02:35:16.000 --> 02:35:19.360 they're more of our lighter lighter industrial light manufacturing 02:35:19.360 --> 02:35:28.320 distribution centers veterinary clinics so and then and then as you can see the 02:35:28.320 --> 02:35:33.360 general regulations here the lot coverage is pretty consistent across our CCD has 02:35:33.360 --> 02:35:38.440 a little bit higher lot coverage our CCD also allows buildings of a hundred feet 02:35:38.440 --> 02:35:43.600 ECI only permits a maximum of 65 feet so it actually would reduce the amount of 02:35:43.600 --> 02:35:48.160 height that good people would be permitted in that in that instance 02:35:48.160 --> 02:35:52.360 notification was sent out the applicant did have a neighborhood meeting there 02:35:52.360 --> 02:35:57.080 were a few neighbors who were concerned and we have received some letters in 02:35:57.080 --> 02:36:01.760 opposition and you can see them there in red due to the the way that the 200 02:36:01.760 --> 02:36:11.420 buffer foot the 200 foot buffer falls we have 1% opposition but but you can see 02:36:11.420 --> 02:36:15.560 those those letters that we received right there so based upon the criteria 02:36:15.560 --> 02:36:19.560 for approval that it is consistent with the future land use designation of the 02:36:19.560 --> 02:36:22.880 subject property and there is adequate infrastructure staff recommends 02:36:22.880 --> 02:36:29.680 approval of the request and I'll stand for any questions I had not seen you thank 02:36:29.680 --> 02:36:36.520 you thank you at this time that will close our work session at 625 we'll take 02:36:36.520 --> 02:36:41.680 a 10-minute recess and reconvene in council chambers at 635 02:36:41.680 --> 02:36:49.480 good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the plan and zoning session 02:36:49.480 --> 02:36:56.760 for January 9th 2019 I'll convene this meeting at 634 the first item on the 02:36:56.760 --> 02:37:01.880 agenda is to stand give the pledge allegiance to the US and Texas flag 02:37:19.480 --> 02:37:38.240 Next item for business is to consider approval of the plan and zoning 02:37:38.240 --> 02:37:44.800 commission meetings from December 12th. Commissioner Beck. I move to approve 02:37:44.800 --> 02:37:52.120 the minutes. Commissioner Smith. Second. We have a first and a second any notes on 02:37:52.120 --> 02:37:57.280 the minutes? Scene 9 will call for a vote on the board. 02:38:13.240 --> 02:38:24.080 Motion carries 6-0 with one recusal. The next items for for business consideration 02:38:24.080 --> 02:38:30.480 is the consent agenda agenda please note that item 3a has been pulled from 02:38:30.480 --> 02:38:36.080 this consent agenda so we'll only be hearing or voting on item 3b 02:38:36.080 --> 02:38:40.320 Commissioner Smith. I move to approve the consent agenda. Commissioner Burnetta. 02:38:40.320 --> 02:38:46.880 I second. We have a first and a second any discussion? Scene 9 will call for a 02:38:46.880 --> 02:38:49.400 vote on the board. 02:38:49.400 --> 02:39:04.000 Motion carries 7-0 next item is 4a it's an item for individual consideration PE 02:39:04.000 --> 02:39:11.280 18-003a I'll call Julie Wyatt for presentation. 02:39:11.280 --> 02:39:26.280 Good evening I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the City of Denton. I'm 02:39:26.280 --> 02:39:33.040 presenting PE 18-3 so the request before you is to consider an extension of a 02:39:33.040 --> 02:39:39.000 previously approved final plot the subject property is located off Johnson 02:39:39.000 --> 02:39:43.760 Street just south of Dallas Drive it's that property outlined in yellow a plot 02:39:43.760 --> 02:39:49.480 was a previously approved on July 13th of 2016 that approval included a review 02:39:49.480 --> 02:39:54.840 of perimeter street improvements storm drain extensions and also a sidewalk 02:39:54.840 --> 02:40:00.680 over the last summer 2018 and the applicant requested and received an 02:40:00.680 --> 02:40:06.760 extension of the plot for six months that plot is set to expire on the 11th 02:40:06.760 --> 02:40:11.320 and so that's why they're here today is to request an additional extension so 02:40:11.320 --> 02:40:16.360 just a little bit of analysis per Denton development code sub chapter 16 if a 02:40:16.360 --> 02:40:19.880 final plot is not filed within two years it becomes null and void unless the 02:40:19.880 --> 02:40:26.280 planning and zoning Commission approves an extension for good cause as I said 02:40:26.280 --> 02:40:30.840 before the final plot was set to expire last July at that time the applicant 02:40:30.840 --> 02:40:35.880 asked for an extension he believed that changes in economic factors would make 02:40:35.880 --> 02:40:39.520 the project economically feasible in the future and the planning and zoning 02:40:39.520 --> 02:40:43.880 Commission did approve that extension for six months to expire on January of 02:40:43.880 --> 02:40:49.520 this year in November the applicant requested an additional extension once 02:40:49.520 --> 02:40:53.160 again citing the same causes construction costs for public 02:40:53.160 --> 02:40:58.280 improvements in the and the anticipation that that economic factors will will 02:40:58.280 --> 02:41:03.480 change in the future however the city has not received any of the required 02:41:03.480 --> 02:41:08.160 documents like the three-way development contracts any of the bond payments that 02:41:08.160 --> 02:41:11.880 would be required for public improvements or communication from the 02:41:11.880 --> 02:41:17.360 applicant to demonstrate that there's been further progress toward completion 02:41:18.000 --> 02:41:23.280 so since the plot was approved in 2016 the city has approved two updates as to 02:41:23.280 --> 02:41:28.200 their criteria manuals to address changes to public improvements and that 02:41:28.200 --> 02:41:32.880 includes things like right-of-way widths and pavement sections staff has 02:41:32.880 --> 02:41:38.240 request the has reviewed their request for extension and since there hasn't 02:41:38.240 --> 02:41:42.360 been any further progress toward completion we recommended the denial 02:41:42.360 --> 02:41:48.400 their quest additionally because due to those changes in the in the criteria for me criteria manuals we 02:41:48.400 --> 02:41:52.400 want to make sure that the development is up to date on the standards that the 02:41:52.400 --> 02:42:01.080 city applies if you if you approve it if you don't don't extend the the plat and 02:42:01.080 --> 02:42:06.040 the and the plat extension is denied the applicant in order to move forward would 02:42:06.040 --> 02:42:10.520 be required to submit for a preliminary plat and final plat and seek approval of 02:42:10.520 --> 02:42:15.560 both of those things that we would also review the engineering plans against any 02:42:15.560 --> 02:42:20.440 updated standards and ensure that development would meet those standards so 02:42:20.440 --> 02:42:29.240 the applicant I believe is here maybe not so I'll stand for any questions I 02:42:29.240 --> 02:42:36.720 don't see the applicant oh okay the applicants in the hallway he's close by 02:42:36.720 --> 02:42:41.000 and I'll stand for any questions perfect thank you Julie we do have a couple 02:42:41.000 --> 02:42:51.280 questions Commissioner Pernetta I didn't see the length of the extension requested 02:42:51.280 --> 02:42:58.720 and they did not request a specific amount of time so when we go to that 02:42:58.720 --> 02:43:18.000 section and the development code there aren't any specific requirements in 02:43:18.000 --> 02:43:22.800 terms of how many extensions or those at length of extensions that could be 02:43:22.800 --> 02:43:29.040 granted so it is it is at the Planning and Zoning Commission's discretion thank 02:43:29.040 --> 02:43:40.000 you I do not see any Commissioner Smith thank you sure it's partially a question 02:43:40.000 --> 02:43:44.960 for staff and really more for a question for Richard in regards to the preliminary 02:43:44.960 --> 02:43:49.360 plot that was filed will the preliminary plotting procedures be changed with the 02:43:49.360 --> 02:43:55.240 DDC update that is coming probably the next six to nine months or so not say 02:43:55.240 --> 02:44:00.440 I should say the process could there have been criteria or items in that 02:44:00.440 --> 02:44:03.520 preliminary practice plot that could be changed by the DDC update coming up 02:44:03.520 --> 02:44:07.040 could you think of anything that off the top your head that your material changes 02:44:07.040 --> 02:44:11.040 now like that wouldn't be something like if the you have another extension got 02:44:11.040 --> 02:44:13.600 past the new DDC update and then by that point in time we'll work with such a 02:44:13.600 --> 02:44:18.600 know what that point timing almost a three year three years from the from the 02:44:18.600 --> 02:44:21.480 approval of the preliminary plot they'd be working off of something that might be 02:44:21.480 --> 02:44:31.480 at a date to the DDC no no no okay thank you and the applicant is here now so I 02:44:31.480 --> 02:44:39.080 do have a question for the applicant is Jim Dewey here if you just state your 02:44:39.080 --> 02:44:43.280 name and address for the record good evening chairman members of the 02:44:43.280 --> 02:44:48.320 Commission I'm Jim Dewey with JDJR engineers 2500 Texas Drive suite 100 02:44:48.320 --> 02:44:53.160 Irving Texas I came before you six months ago to ask for a year's extension 02:44:53.160 --> 02:44:58.240 and at that time explain that the project had come in a little bit over 02:44:58.240 --> 02:45:03.600 budget due to some public infrastructure that was required for some off-site 02:45:03.600 --> 02:45:07.280 drainage and some things that were not anticipated when this project was 02:45:07.280 --> 02:45:13.040 started and that the owner and developer was really working on getting financing 02:45:13.040 --> 02:45:18.120 and should have everything put together before this date I also was told that if 02:45:18.120 --> 02:45:21.520 we've come back that the developer needed to be here to talk for himself 02:45:21.520 --> 02:45:26.600 and fortunately he is here they has made a lot of progress nothing has been made 02:45:26.600 --> 02:45:30.680 in terms of submittals to the city so Julie and staff there was nothing 02:45:30.680 --> 02:45:33.320 submitted city so they have no way of knowing but there has been a lot of work 02:45:33.320 --> 02:45:38.680 behind the scenes and working to try to get this project started he seriously 02:45:38.680 --> 02:45:46.000 wants to get this project going we are asking for another extension we would 02:45:46.000 --> 02:45:53.520 like a year but we know that even six months would would be acceptable it's 02:45:53.520 --> 02:45:56.960 simply about getting the project started from a financing point of view we're not 02:45:56.960 --> 02:46:00.040 trying to change the project we don't want to change the project so we don't 02:46:00.040 --> 02:46:05.080 really want to have to start the process over with a new plat it's certainly we 02:46:05.080 --> 02:46:09.840 could certainly do that but at this point we hope that y'all see that maybe 02:46:09.840 --> 02:46:14.000 there is some really serious work going on and the plat would be recorded prior 02:46:14.000 --> 02:46:20.540 to the end of this next extension so at this point I'd like to turn over to 02:46:20.540 --> 02:46:24.920 side and sorry he is the property owner he did purchase these properties three 02:46:24.920 --> 02:46:29.960 years ago to do this project he owns the properties it's not in his benefit to 02:46:29.960 --> 02:46:33.960 own them forever he wants to develop them and and move on down the road so 02:46:33.960 --> 02:46:37.600 I'm going to introduce you to side and sorry and he's going to kind of explain 02:46:37.600 --> 02:46:40.340 what he's been working on sure we pause real fast 02:46:40.340 --> 02:46:43.960 kisser pretty and Smith you have questions for the engineer or the applicant 02:46:43.960 --> 02:46:51.680 which would be better for applicant Mr. Smith would think you're just I guess I 02:46:51.680 --> 02:46:55.400 should clarify do you have better information about the what his work has 02:46:55.400 --> 02:46:59.040 been done since we gave the extension or the developer of the developer okay the 02:46:59.040 --> 02:47:04.920 way for the developer thank you and if you could just say it's your name and 02:47:04.920 --> 02:47:09.720 address for the record good evening respected members of the council my name 02:47:09.720 --> 02:47:20.180 is said I'm sorry syed ansari and the address is 10209 Savoy Drive in Plano 02:47:20.180 --> 02:47:23.200 Texas 02:47:23.200 --> 02:47:30.640 kisser pernetta do you want to ask your question yeah the description that we 02:47:30.640 --> 02:47:35.680 got on the request for extension was that there were economic factors that 02:47:35.680 --> 02:47:39.700 you were hoping would be resolved within six months and those are kind of 02:47:39.700 --> 02:47:43.960 vague I was wondering if this was an issue of costs or financing or if you 02:47:43.960 --> 02:47:48.000 could give us a little bit more insight into what would be resolved by this 02:47:48.000 --> 02:47:54.600 extension yes actually it's a mixture of both you know if you look at that street 02:47:54.600 --> 02:47:59.680 Johnson Street it's a bunch of single-family old homes that we purchased 02:47:59.680 --> 02:48:04.840 took out about three homes out and combined them to make about 1.8 acres of 02:48:04.840 --> 02:48:11.320 land to put in two buildings essentially making about 52 apartments for students 02:48:11.320 --> 02:48:19.240 and if you look at that street it's when you drive into it in order to you know 02:48:19.240 --> 02:48:24.160 we could see the future as a developer I can see that you know that place is 02:48:24.160 --> 02:48:33.480 going to change a lot the city of course has it has that same idea and it's it's 02:48:33.480 --> 02:48:43.400 now things rezoned as the as a as what do you call it a downtown district so 02:48:43.400 --> 02:48:50.440 but many of the investors who are looking at it with us couldn't we're not 02:48:50.440 --> 02:48:55.640 convinced so the people who are with us at that time and we originally purchased 02:48:55.640 --> 02:49:01.960 it had some questions and this thing we were exploring different options and now 02:49:01.960 --> 02:49:07.360 we are also looking at building something cool for the students like 02:49:07.360 --> 02:49:12.760 using containers you know there's container construction is very popular 02:49:12.760 --> 02:49:20.240 in Europe and it's it is popular in both California New York Canada and places 02:49:20.240 --> 02:49:25.640 like that so we thought bringing something like that might be pretty cool 02:49:25.640 --> 02:49:33.520 for the students we were exploring and doing all this in these few years like 02:49:33.520 --> 02:49:39.840 two or three years and we decided to just stick with the traditional 02:49:39.840 --> 02:49:46.360 construction for now and I have a new partner on board who is here actually 02:49:46.360 --> 02:49:50.960 with me and we've decided to go forward with it as you know with the student 02:49:50.960 --> 02:50:00.360 housing it has to be timed correctly so we plan to open this for residents in 02:50:00.360 --> 02:50:06.400 2020 summer fall you know to be ready in summer so it can be ready ready for 02:50:06.400 --> 02:50:13.720 occupation in fall so if we started with our building plans today it would 02:50:13.720 --> 02:50:17.940 probably take us about six months to get all the approvals for actual the 02:50:17.940 --> 02:50:22.440 building plans and get it ready and if we start construction and in summer of 02:50:22.440 --> 02:50:32.100 2019 we will kick and have this place ready in 2020 fall so that's that's our 02:50:32.100 --> 02:50:37.960 plan so the extension that you're seeking would just be a short term like 02:50:37.960 --> 02:50:43.840 just a few months or we would like it to be at least a year so that you know we 02:50:43.840 --> 02:50:47.120 don't we're not back here requesting another extension we are going to be 02:50:47.120 --> 02:50:52.720 working on the plans and getting those ready 02:50:52.720 --> 02:50:59.760 that's all I've got for now. Commissioner Smith. Thank you chair so I guess to say that we were only 02:50:59.760 --> 02:51:04.160 privy to as much as the staff knows the staff has had nothing updated to them 02:51:04.160 --> 02:51:09.400 since we last gave the extension so what I've heard what you said but what 02:51:09.400 --> 02:51:13.320 exactly have you done since July when you say we've been doing work doing 02:51:13.320 --> 02:51:22.260 behind-the-scenes what does what does I mean I have a few plans that we have 02:51:22.260 --> 02:51:28.680 been working on I can give them to you for to look at you put them on the seat 02:51:28.680 --> 02:51:33.040 of little fields section right there you can actually open them up and put them 02:51:33.040 --> 02:51:39.200 there and they'll put them on that screen yeah you might buy turning it 02:51:39.200 --> 02:51:43.280 sideways so we could see it upright or is that the right way kind of looks 02:51:43.280 --> 02:51:47.400 like there's riding that's up and down 02:51:47.400 --> 02:52:01.840 halfway around yeah it's where it's so this is the container building that we 02:52:01.840 --> 02:52:10.840 were planning and it's actually we could have about maybe about 80 80 to 90 units 02:52:10.840 --> 02:52:16.400 makes it a little more feasible but there's always risk when you do 02:52:16.400 --> 02:52:22.480 something different to new you know symbiosis homes does zero energy ready 02:52:22.480 --> 02:52:29.280 homes and that's what we build and so I I try to do personally something very 02:52:29.280 --> 02:52:36.080 different from what's normally seen in the market so this is something that we 02:52:36.080 --> 02:52:53.840 were developing here's a one and two bedroom apartment complex I mean a flow 02:52:53.840 --> 02:53:00.240 plans and this was actually done by an architect in Seattle contain builders 02:53:00.240 --> 02:53:06.720 who have a lot of experience probably about 15 years of experience and doing 02:53:06.720 --> 02:53:12.400 containers based on this thing and we they were working with our architect Jim 02:53:12.400 --> 02:53:21.160 Dewey for you know consulting with them about the details of this land the 02:53:21.160 --> 02:53:25.920 second question I had was for what you just said to Commissioner Pernetta was 02:53:25.920 --> 02:53:31.000 that really you need another six months to get the documentation and that you 02:53:31.000 --> 02:53:35.920 need for your final plot and then you would need about a year to build and be 02:53:35.920 --> 02:53:40.040 ready by by summer of 2020 so you really don't need a year you read really need 02:53:40.040 --> 02:53:45.320 more like six months to get your to get your final plot in so that's that's 02:53:45.320 --> 02:53:49.200 that's realistically it's not not a year it's it's really six months and then 02:53:49.200 --> 02:53:52.760 whenever you really think about it we've already given a six-month extension to 02:53:52.760 --> 02:53:56.960 something that already allows you two years I know there's been complications 02:53:56.960 --> 02:54:03.000 with the project but to two and a half years is pretty good amount of time to 02:54:03.000 --> 02:54:07.800 if it's people working diligently to be able to secure financing or find a 02:54:07.800 --> 02:54:12.440 remediation for the utility of that that lot for whatever needs to be done so 02:54:12.440 --> 02:54:15.640 sounds like it's much more like six months and that's that's that's the 02:54:15.640 --> 02:54:19.320 basis I'm going to take it off of so thank you for my questions 02:54:19.320 --> 02:54:26.560 Mr. Beck thank you chair thank you mr. I'm sorry I don't know that I spelled it 02:54:26.560 --> 02:54:32.680 right but I got the pronunciation Mr. dude who came before you said you had 02:54:32.680 --> 02:54:37.400 done some serious work there already but all you're showing us are plans on paper 02:54:37.400 --> 02:54:41.960 I don't see any physical has there been any physical work that's actually been 02:54:41.960 --> 02:54:46.760 done in this area or are we just dealing with plans at the site we've not done 02:54:46.760 --> 02:54:52.900 there's no whole lot we just removed the three houses that were there in the 02:54:52.900 --> 02:54:57.320 other thing you know the houses where they're sitting there when we bought 02:54:57.320 --> 02:55:02.680 these whole homes we started buying them about three years ago and some of them 02:55:02.680 --> 02:55:07.600 were rented and we removed them and some of them had we had to do some 02:55:07.600 --> 02:55:13.280 remediation and so on because they had asbestos and stuff like that we got that 02:55:13.280 --> 02:55:19.500 done to get it ready for okay but there's been no breaking of ground to do 02:55:19.500 --> 02:55:27.920 new construction correct okay I'm not getting any feeling of confidence here 02:55:27.920 --> 02:55:32.240 that this thing is really moving along like it should be and as Commissioner 02:55:32.240 --> 02:55:37.600 Smith pointed out I think ample time has been given to get a lot further than you 02:55:37.600 --> 02:55:44.060 have this far it still doesn't sound and correct me if I'm wrong like you've got 02:55:44.060 --> 02:55:48.400 your finances in order here too that you're not gonna be running into 02:55:48.400 --> 02:55:53.260 problems with this down the road is that sound about right I mean it's are your 02:55:53.260 --> 02:55:58.720 finances locked in or are there still some negotiations going on we do 02:55:58.720 --> 02:56:07.340 actually with this project because it's targeted towards students every time we 02:56:07.340 --> 02:56:15.200 miss that time timeline of one year to ready to be ready to build it everything 02:56:15.200 --> 02:56:22.480 the thing slows down you know if I miss summer of this 19 then we will be 02:56:22.480 --> 02:56:25.880 looking at next year we wouldn't be doing anything to live well I think the 02:56:25.880 --> 02:56:29.180 extension is just to get you started somebody correct me if I'm wrong on 02:56:29.180 --> 02:56:33.840 staff we're not looking at you completing this we're looking at you 02:56:33.840 --> 02:56:40.160 getting started on it and then the time it takes it's the time it takes but I 02:56:40.160 --> 02:56:45.680 don't think we even see you starting physical construction within the next 02:56:45.680 --> 02:56:51.920 six months by summer of this year actually what I'm talking about is the 02:56:51.920 --> 02:56:57.920 time it takes we have to time to finish it by the end of summer so that it's 02:56:57.920 --> 02:57:04.040 ready for occupation if I have this ready by summer 2020 2020 right okay the 02:57:04.040 --> 02:57:10.720 other thing that bothers me mr. Ansari is your site plan you're talking about 02:57:10.720 --> 02:57:15.840 changing it from one type of building unit to another that doesn't set well 02:57:15.840 --> 02:57:20.040 either because we need to see what you're proposing here I hear you talking 02:57:20.040 --> 02:57:23.240 about crates and we know what they are we've seen those come before us but it 02:57:23.240 --> 02:57:27.920 seems like if you're gonna change things we need to have a new site plan 02:57:27.920 --> 02:57:33.600 presented to us before we proceed with that this is something internal what we 02:57:33.600 --> 02:57:38.640 were as partners discussing what to do but we need to know are you gonna go 02:57:38.640 --> 02:57:44.060 forward with okay you're not changing it you're not changing the site plan you 02:57:44.060 --> 02:57:48.520 presented to us earlier yeah we are not changing it we've decided to go with the 02:57:48.520 --> 02:57:55.800 traditional construction okay yeah just stick belt with masonry what is as per 02:57:55.800 --> 02:58:00.600 the standards the city is approved yes okay that's what we've decided to do 02:58:00.600 --> 02:58:03.640 all right thank you sir 02:58:03.640 --> 02:58:12.480 at least one clarification they're not allowed to do any on-site construction 02:58:12.480 --> 02:58:16.400 till the Platts filed and what we're here tonight asking for is to extend the 02:58:16.400 --> 02:58:21.360 limit to file the plat so we couldn't do any construction at this point until we 02:58:21.360 --> 02:58:26.440 file the plat so okay that's right so there's nothing that could be happening 02:58:26.440 --> 02:58:31.400 on the site until we get past this process now and to be completely honest 02:58:31.400 --> 02:58:34.520 with you the reason that we don't want to go ahead and file the plat is should 02:58:34.520 --> 02:58:38.480 have something changed they were looking at some alternative designs going back 02:58:38.480 --> 02:58:43.520 to a different and it may require to change in site plan which could affect 02:58:43.520 --> 02:58:48.640 the easements and different things that are shown on the plat right so now that 02:58:48.640 --> 02:58:53.720 they decided to go with what has been approved there would be no changes on 02:58:53.720 --> 02:59:00.120 the plat okay so it now that they've decided to go forward mr. Ansari even 02:59:00.120 --> 02:59:05.520 came in today to see if he could get permission to file the plat now or next 02:59:05.520 --> 02:59:10.480 week or something to avoid this meeting or get going but there's a couple of 02:59:10.480 --> 02:59:15.040 things required that the city is requiring before we can file the plat and 02:59:15.040 --> 02:59:21.360 what those two items are is they want con actual contracts and documents signed 02:59:21.360 --> 02:59:26.240 and executed for construction of the public improvements and on this 02:59:26.240 --> 02:59:29.680 particular project although it's a small project we do have some substantial not 02:59:29.680 --> 02:59:33.560 substantial but significant public improvements in that we have been asked 02:59:33.560 --> 02:59:38.880 to improve Johnson Road and because it's just a little two-lane asphalt road we're 02:59:38.880 --> 02:59:42.840 having to build curb and gutter on one side and put some concrete in just in 02:59:42.840 --> 02:59:47.320 that one little piece and then because there's no drainage out front we're doing 02:59:47.320 --> 02:59:51.680 stormwater detention to keep the drainage the same as what is currently 02:59:51.680 --> 02:59:56.840 there but for some reason didn't has the only city I know that has this code is 02:59:56.840 --> 03:00:01.280 you can do detention but you're not allowed to do detention if you don't 03:00:01.280 --> 03:00:06.240 have an underground outlet so when we first pros to detention we were just 03:00:06.240 --> 03:00:09.880 letting the water back out into the street bar ditch like it's going down 03:00:09.880 --> 03:00:14.520 that could not get approved so we ended up having to go like 400 feet down 03:00:14.520 --> 03:00:18.040 Johnson Road in the middle of the road and put in a storm drain even though 03:00:18.040 --> 03:00:23.460 we're doing detention and so there was kind of quite a lot of there's some 03:00:23.460 --> 03:00:27.880 public improvements here okay that need to be that have to be signed off on and 03:00:27.880 --> 03:00:31.480 those contracts submitted and they certainly weren't in a process a point 03:00:31.480 --> 03:00:36.360 to be able to do that to record the plat but now that they're moving forward they 03:00:36.360 --> 03:00:41.080 can get bids on that work I've already got bids but get those contracts in so 03:00:41.080 --> 03:00:45.560 that we can record the plat okay and so so you know I understand your 03:00:45.560 --> 03:00:54.640 frustration and what has happened right but we're at a point now where they don't 03:00:54.640 --> 03:01:00.840 you know they need to be under construction by the summer but you know 03:01:00.840 --> 03:01:05.320 they still have to go through a building permit now that they've tried it decided 03:01:05.320 --> 03:01:09.420 not to change what is on the approved site plan development plans they can 03:01:09.420 --> 03:01:12.240 proceed with getting their actual building the only thing left is the 03:01:12.240 --> 03:01:16.600 building drawings and you feel like you need an actual year to do all that or 03:01:16.600 --> 03:01:25.160 you just asking for a year to be safe well I never like to speak against the 03:01:25.160 --> 03:01:32.440 client I'm representing but I think I think a six months if the plat they 03:01:32.440 --> 03:01:38.960 can record the plat by this July at the latest which would be six months and I 03:01:38.960 --> 03:01:45.800 think that would be sufficient okay because waiting till six months I mean a 03:01:45.800 --> 03:01:50.400 year from now they're not making the deadline they're trying to make that so 03:01:50.400 --> 03:01:54.040 they can record the plat by July and if they'd only have a building it doesn't 03:01:54.040 --> 03:01:56.980 it's not really tying them to the building permit they may not may or may 03:01:56.980 --> 03:02:04.080 not have the building permit right but I think I feel I feel like getting a six 03:02:04.080 --> 03:02:08.560 month extension would is a reasonable time reasonable okay very good thank you 03:02:08.560 --> 03:02:13.600 sir Commissioner Ellis thank you chair just one 03:02:13.600 --> 03:02:19.240 question is the project financed what is your question is the project financed 03:02:19.240 --> 03:02:32.280 financed that would be a question I'm just an engineer a part of it may be a 03:02:32.280 --> 03:02:38.240 finance but we are trying to do it internally meaning do you have your 03:02:38.240 --> 03:02:49.680 investor secured that's right Mr. Sanchez so what do you think is your 03:02:49.680 --> 03:02:52.600 biggest problem we're talking about two and a half years what has been your 03:02:52.600 --> 03:02:57.120 primary problem for the two and a half years that has taken this so that has 03:02:57.120 --> 03:03:03.760 taken this long I would say the location location yeah I I can see the future 03:03:03.760 --> 03:03:09.520 like I mean I can I can foresee what is happening you know that's what that's 03:03:09.520 --> 03:03:15.520 how I got interested in it but I've not been able to convince a whole lot of 03:03:15.520 --> 03:03:21.180 buyers who would be ready to buy there but now I hear that there's more 03:03:21.180 --> 03:03:26.280 development taking place which is in line with what we are doing so that's 03:03:26.280 --> 03:03:30.920 it's a good sign but I guess I'm talking about specifically what is it your 03:03:30.920 --> 03:03:34.940 financing that has been a problem is it all the requirements that the city has 03:03:34.940 --> 03:03:41.040 has that you think has imposed on you or what what would you say because I mean 03:03:41.040 --> 03:03:46.640 two and a half two and a half years is a long time and so there must be one issue 03:03:46.640 --> 03:03:51.600 or one or two issues that you're really struggling with and I don't think you've 03:03:51.600 --> 03:04:03.160 communicated that to to us yet I guess you know initially it was some internal 03:04:03.160 --> 03:04:10.840 discussions among investors that delayed the project as we were not sure that it 03:04:10.840 --> 03:04:16.200 was financially a viable project because the project also became very expensive 03:04:16.200 --> 03:04:22.220 because of all the public improvements we were doing to this so it is just not 03:04:22.220 --> 03:04:27.240 you know a plane apartment complex that we build we were also doing a lot of 03:04:27.240 --> 03:04:32.240 public and by the cost went up quite a bit so the whole project became very 03:04:32.240 --> 03:04:37.200 expensive so that that that was one of the reasons why it got delayed a little 03:04:37.200 --> 03:04:39.320 bit 03:04:43.200 --> 03:04:54.800 mr. Pernetta a few questions I think was some for staff so in terms of what we're 03:04:54.800 --> 03:04:59.720 voting on here right now my understanding is that right now before 03:04:59.720 --> 03:05:03.920 we even get to the final plat being submitted there are public works that 03:05:03.920 --> 03:05:10.440 would have to be completed by the developer before we can get to that or 03:05:12.480 --> 03:05:19.360 okay all right so with any with any plot once a final plot is approved they then 03:05:19.360 --> 03:05:25.640 start the the the process for the public improvement so within that process there 03:05:25.640 --> 03:05:30.800 are the the development contracts as well as a fiscal surety there's also 03:05:30.800 --> 03:05:36.360 something called we do a hold harmless so that it allows developers to move 03:05:36.360 --> 03:05:43.320 forward private the private improvements concurrent with or prior to the public 03:05:43.320 --> 03:05:48.440 improvement so all of these the so that the contracts the fiscal surety and the 03:05:48.440 --> 03:05:53.400 hold harmless would need to be completed prior to the plat being filed once a 03:05:53.400 --> 03:05:58.080 plot is a is filed then they can start moving forward with the public and 03:05:58.080 --> 03:06:11.120 private improvements so with this denial if there were to be a denial there are 03:06:11.120 --> 03:06:15.560 there were updates to the to the coats right that would have to be accounted 03:06:15.560 --> 03:06:22.280 for for the plat that weren't in place when it was previously when it previously 03:06:22.280 --> 03:06:26.040 came before us correct well our engineering has really committed to 03:06:26.040 --> 03:06:30.240 updating those criteria manuals on a yearly basis to ensure that our public 03:06:30.240 --> 03:06:34.920 improvements and the and the and the the requirements associated with those are 03:06:34.920 --> 03:06:40.040 are up to the best practices so since this was approved that we've had a 03:06:40.040 --> 03:06:44.800 couple of updates to our criteria manuals and I expect as as we move forward they 03:06:44.800 --> 03:06:50.400 will continue to look at those and make improvements upon those if if if there 03:06:50.400 --> 03:06:56.560 wasn't an extension granted for this plat he would have to come back again 03:06:56.560 --> 03:07:01.200 with a preliminary plat civil engineering plans for public improvements 03:07:01.200 --> 03:07:06.200 and then a final plat and those civil plans would be reviewed in accordance 03:07:06.200 --> 03:07:11.680 with those new requirements in the criteria manuals and the other timeline 03:07:11.680 --> 03:07:15.920 we've been given was that they were targeting having this done by summer of 03:07:15.920 --> 03:07:21.420 2020 which is you know a year and a half a little bit over than that a little over 03:07:21.420 --> 03:07:27.240 that away if they had to start the process all over again would meeting 03:07:27.240 --> 03:07:34.360 that timeline be extremely prohibitive or could that still be done I don't know 03:07:34.360 --> 03:07:38.360 when the construction side typically a preliminary and final and I think 03:07:38.360 --> 03:07:42.920 they've probably done some preliminary work because they've they've gone 03:07:42.920 --> 03:07:48.280 through this process with this before a plat typically takes a couple of months 03:07:48.280 --> 03:07:51.080 to get through the review and to the planning and zoning Commission 03:07:51.080 --> 03:07:55.560 preliminary and final plats can and civil plans can be reviewed concurrently 03:07:55.560 --> 03:07:59.200 so they could stack those applications on top of each other of course the 03:07:59.200 --> 03:08:03.800 approvals have to come in order so preliminary plat approved civil plans 03:08:03.800 --> 03:08:09.440 and then final plat so it if they wanted to be under construction by this summer 03:08:09.440 --> 03:08:14.240 it would be it would be a push but it certainly could be done we typically see 03:08:14.240 --> 03:08:18.320 development contracts taking a couple of months because they do submit them to us 03:08:18.320 --> 03:08:21.200 and we review them to make sure that they're accurate and make sure that 03:08:21.200 --> 03:08:29.120 they're they have all all of the the the parts of the contract are filled out in 03:08:29.120 --> 03:08:33.880 accordance with with the ownership and and and the requirements of the city and 03:08:33.880 --> 03:08:39.240 so and it does take a couple of months to get through that contract phase but 03:08:39.240 --> 03:08:43.920 that could certainly be pursued while they're also having their plats reviewed 03:08:43.920 --> 03:08:50.640 so so it could be done within within a six month time frame but they would it 03:08:50.640 --> 03:08:56.840 would be a they'd be moving on it so okay thank you that's all right 03:08:56.840 --> 03:09:06.240 mr. Smith thank you chair mr. sorry back front of the mic there just to just to 03:09:06.240 --> 03:09:12.240 go off of Commissioner Ellis's line of questioning because I don't I don't 03:09:12.240 --> 03:09:16.480 think I got a definitive answer from you you have secured an investor for the 03:09:16.480 --> 03:09:21.960 full dollar amount that needed to go forward into this project yes thank you 03:09:21.960 --> 03:09:29.120 okay so I have a question kind of piggybacking on that back on July 11th 03:09:29.120 --> 03:09:33.840 we were told that the main holdup for not having this filed was funding yes 03:09:33.840 --> 03:09:38.440 you're saying tonight that funding has been secured yes so I'm now curious as 03:09:38.440 --> 03:09:43.560 is the the reason that the project hasn't moved forward moved it's shifted 03:09:43.560 --> 03:09:50.160 it was funding but now there's a different reason for an extension the 03:09:50.160 --> 03:09:59.200 extension was for six months we we have funding now actually the gentleman here 03:09:59.200 --> 03:10:07.000 mr. Bilal he's he's the one who's coming in as the new investor sure 03:10:07.000 --> 03:10:11.720 that the looking back over the minutes of the meeting that we were at in July 03:10:11.720 --> 03:10:17.560 the extension was for that reason yes you've met that reason yeah but yet 03:10:17.560 --> 03:10:20.240 you're not moving forward with the project I'm trying to connect the dots 03:10:20.240 --> 03:10:25.680 of we provide an extension for funding funding happened yet you're back for 03:10:25.680 --> 03:10:29.920 another extension why are you back for another extension if the reason it was 03:10:29.920 --> 03:10:37.480 postponed to begin with is no longer an issue we recently got the the funding it 03:10:37.480 --> 03:10:48.960 was just in the last month that we got this funding so yes like the planner 03:10:48.960 --> 03:10:54.160 said even processing those documents that are required the contracts for the 03:10:54.160 --> 03:10:57.800 public improvements and the assurances and things that are needed takes about 03:10:57.800 --> 03:11:02.560 two months just getting those to an approval process so if they started if 03:11:02.560 --> 03:11:07.480 they could have submit those today we couldn't file the plat for another two 03:11:07.480 --> 03:11:13.600 or three months so now that they just started I mean they need to get to get a 03:11:13.600 --> 03:11:18.280 sick if we get a six month extension we're going to July okay they've got to 03:11:18.280 --> 03:11:24.120 submit all of this information that is required before we can file the plat 03:11:24.120 --> 03:11:30.760 within the next couple months at the very latest in order to make that 03:11:30.760 --> 03:11:36.720 extension because the city is still waiting on contracts for the public 03:11:36.720 --> 03:11:43.160 improvements actual contracts that he has signed the city's signs and agrees 03:11:43.160 --> 03:11:51.080 to get a contractor and start that work they were not even close to that until 03:11:51.080 --> 03:11:55.960 they get funding and unfortunately we asked for an extension to get funding we 03:11:55.960 --> 03:12:01.320 did get funding in the six months but not in time to submit contracts three 03:12:01.320 --> 03:12:06.240 months ago so that we could have filed it a month or two weeks ago so those 03:12:06.240 --> 03:12:10.080 contracts now been submitted post having funding received no they're going to 03:12:10.080 --> 03:12:14.800 start getting those together now we haven't so how recently did funding get 03:12:14.800 --> 03:12:21.200 acquired we turn days or it was in December can you be more specific I'm 03:12:21.200 --> 03:12:30.160 more specific like the second week of December okay okay I have no other 03:12:30.160 --> 03:12:35.960 questions I don't see any other questions so this is an individual item 03:12:35.960 --> 03:12:41.560 so it's not a public hearing however the chair will entertain a motion or 03:12:41.560 --> 03:12:49.280 discussion on the matter and just just for clarification the motion put forth 03:12:49.280 --> 03:12:55.680 should include the proposed duration of a renewal if if you're proposing that if 03:12:55.680 --> 03:12:57.240 it's denial obviously there's not a timeline 03:12:57.240 --> 03:13:02.200 mr. Smith thank you kind of go against even when our work session was about 03:13:02.200 --> 03:13:05.840 which is about parliamentary procedure that we don't have a motion on the floor 03:13:05.840 --> 03:13:09.680 but I want to have discussion first is that just kind of let everyone know that 03:13:09.680 --> 03:13:14.240 what I'm thinking before I make a motion I guess well we learn nothing we're all 03:13:14.240 --> 03:13:23.920 idiots okay there's like two hours I've had cookies since then so forgot the it 03:13:23.920 --> 03:13:27.640 it does sound like they've they've secured the funding they need they didn't 03:13:27.640 --> 03:13:30.960 the timeline didn't work out to get it the most I would ever want to give would 03:13:30.960 --> 03:13:35.120 be six months I think that was my my biggest thing is there any is there any 03:13:35.120 --> 03:13:39.920 inhibition to them getting them continuing on and having their project done the 03:13:39.920 --> 03:13:44.920 answer is no then six months from now if things are not what were that fight on 03:13:44.920 --> 03:13:49.400 plaque can be filed then it would be a hard hard no for me to ever give them an 03:13:49.400 --> 03:13:52.720 extension again that's actually something I was busy with legal about and 03:13:52.720 --> 03:13:56.360 so I'd like to hear what everyone else's thoughts are and baby talking talking me 03:13:56.360 --> 03:14:01.800 out of that but that is my that is my thought process right now is that the 03:14:01.800 --> 03:14:06.040 timeline worked against them at this point so so we have several people 03:14:06.040 --> 03:14:10.560 wanting to discuss I will say having a motion on the floor kind of centers the 03:14:10.560 --> 03:14:13.920 discussion so if there is a motion be happy to hear it but until then 03:14:13.920 --> 03:14:21.960 commissioner Beck okay the monkey bone back of Commissioner Smith's comments to 03:14:21.960 --> 03:14:26.700 be honest with you I haven't felt a whole lot of confidence from the 03:14:26.700 --> 03:14:31.760 developer that things as concrete as they need to be on the other hand though 03:14:31.760 --> 03:14:37.800 I'm reluctant to say no to somebody that's still willing to try this and I 03:14:37.800 --> 03:14:42.320 feel like if we do go forward this it would be a strict six months with the 03:14:42.320 --> 03:14:46.760 understanding that we have that final plan and hand and things start because 03:14:46.760 --> 03:14:51.000 after that as far as I'm concerned I think most Commissioners would agree it's 03:14:51.000 --> 03:14:57.360 it's been way too long now as it has been already so Commissioner Smith I make 03:14:57.360 --> 03:15:03.440 a motion to this would be a motion to adopt a denial so I actually would make 03:15:03.440 --> 03:15:10.280 them I move to give an extension of a date certain of the first planning and 03:15:10.280 --> 03:15:13.800 zoning meeting of July I don't have the calendar in front of me to tell you what 03:15:13.800 --> 03:15:16.520 that date would be 03:15:19.600 --> 03:15:27.800 it's July 17th I move to move to approve the proof extension of this until date 03:15:27.800 --> 03:15:35.640 certain of July 17th 2019 we have a first Commissioner Sanchez like second 03:15:35.640 --> 03:15:41.580 it thank you and commercial center per netta for any discussion yeah that was 03:15:41.580 --> 03:15:45.840 actually going to be something I was going to suggest because I'm my reading 03:15:45.840 --> 03:15:49.640 of the minutes was that they came for an extension earlier in the year they could 03:15:49.640 --> 03:15:52.960 have asked for a year or actually last year they could have asked for a year 03:15:52.960 --> 03:15:57.680 they got six months so by doing that we would be granting them in effect the 03:15:57.680 --> 03:16:03.920 extension that they could have asked for the first time I'm good with this 03:16:03.920 --> 03:16:09.560 Mr. Sanchez do you have any more discussion going to add no pretty much 03:16:09.560 --> 03:16:17.800 I think one of the things that I would say is because it's the reason I would 03:16:17.800 --> 03:16:23.720 approve it extension is because it's it's what they call interior within the 03:16:23.720 --> 03:16:29.560 city and I think a lot of times those what's left is a little bit harder to 03:16:29.560 --> 03:16:33.680 develop than either easy stuff has already been developed so I think 03:16:33.680 --> 03:16:37.280 sometimes some of these areas that are left if we want to get them developed we 03:16:37.280 --> 03:16:41.480 have to hit be a little bit more considerate about the developers simply 03:16:41.480 --> 03:16:46.680 because those areas are kind of more unique than other places so I that's why 03:16:46.680 --> 03:16:50.720 I would give the extension but I would like to say is you have to get on the 03:16:50.720 --> 03:16:55.000 ball and get it taken care of because this isn't going to continue 03:16:55.000 --> 03:17:01.360 crucial thank you chair I'm gonna be a no vote on the extension I'm just not 03:17:01.360 --> 03:17:05.920 confident in that financing secured financing is the problem in my opinion I 03:17:05.920 --> 03:17:11.280 also respect the updates to our finance our our criteria manuals were two years 03:17:11.280 --> 03:17:18.160 into that plus this just stalls it in in old manuals and and I'm not on board to 03:17:18.160 --> 03:17:25.080 do that we have a first and a second for an approval of an extension for six 03:17:25.080 --> 03:17:32.200 months to a date of July 17th is there any more discussion on the item 03:17:32.200 --> 03:17:38.400 Commissioner Pernetta yeah I would like to ask staff per Commissioner Ellis's 03:17:38.400 --> 03:17:44.560 point now about the updates what specifically are we looking at you know 03:17:44.560 --> 03:17:49.720 that we would be freezing for the next year and a half of who to approve this 03:17:49.720 --> 03:17:55.440 um a lot of the changes do you have to do with those right-of-way wits and and 03:17:55.440 --> 03:18:01.360 just just you know additional technical improvements to to what the engineering 03:18:01.360 --> 03:18:05.960 group reviews I don't have the specific items in front of me but they do try to 03:18:05.960 --> 03:18:10.880 keep them updated to ensure that the industry standards are met so so 03:18:10.880 --> 03:18:14.480 basically street wits and things like that nothing regarding environmental or 03:18:14.480 --> 03:18:20.080 anything and that would provide not environmental be issue no it wouldn't 03:18:20.080 --> 03:18:24.640 be it wouldn't be an environmental it would be things like the drainage water 03:18:24.640 --> 03:18:28.840 sewer and streets those those public improvements are typically what we're 03:18:28.840 --> 03:18:35.080 looking at okay thank you sure let me just add a part of that part of the 03:18:35.080 --> 03:18:38.760 updates to the the transportation criteria manual were those street wits 03:18:38.760 --> 03:18:44.240 but also the thickness of the concrete I know there were some issues with some 03:18:44.240 --> 03:18:50.280 rights of way that were just not holding up and so that was one of the one of the 03:18:50.280 --> 03:18:55.120 items that prompted prompted that that update so there were now sort of in an 03:18:55.120 --> 03:18:59.640 annual basis for for updating those if you recall I think was right before the 03:18:59.640 --> 03:19:04.040 end of the year they had brought those forward for consideration just wanted to 03:19:04.040 --> 03:19:12.840 clarify that thank you the only point I would make is sir for my opinion is I'm 03:19:12.840 --> 03:19:17.840 with Commissioner Sanchez and Smith I think it was who said the six months is 03:19:17.840 --> 03:19:23.520 kind of the end I feel like Commissioner Ellis not very confident this project 03:19:23.520 --> 03:19:26.280 moving forward it seems like there's a moving target of reasons why it hasn't 03:19:26.280 --> 03:19:30.680 happened however I'd rather see something developed sooner rather than 03:19:30.680 --> 03:19:34.960 later so this gives the opportunity for it to be developed in a shorter term 03:19:34.960 --> 03:19:41.280 timeline so with that I'll call for a vote on the board 03:19:49.440 --> 03:19:57.960 motion passes 6 1 the next item for business is public hearing 5a it's z 18 03:19:57.960 --> 03:20:07.320 - 0 0 1 1 a I'll open the public hearing and call Julie Wyatt for presentation 03:20:20.440 --> 03:20:28.200 all right good evening this is the 1811 agave ranch so the request before you is 03:20:28.200 --> 03:20:33.680 to consider a rezoning from rural residential 5 district to neighborhood 03:20:33.680 --> 03:20:38.360 residential 4 district and an initial zoning designation of in our for 03:20:38.360 --> 03:20:43.080 neighborhood residential 4 district on approximately 92 acres of land the 03:20:43.080 --> 03:20:46.360 subject property is situated on the northeast side of town it's there 03:20:46.360 --> 03:20:54.360 outlined in yellow it's just outside of the loop north of Hartley field so the 03:20:54.360 --> 03:20:59.480 current zoning on the side actually has a split zoning our D5 is adjacent to FM 03:20:59.480 --> 03:21:05.200 428 Sherman and then our D5 acts is the our place holding zoning designation it 03:21:05.200 --> 03:21:08.680 follows the regulations in our D5 but it it's one of those zoning 03:21:08.680 --> 03:21:14.480 designations that is there to hold hold the property once it's annexed into the 03:21:14.480 --> 03:21:19.520 site if you'll just take a little closer look at the existing zoning pattern in 03:21:19.520 --> 03:21:23.960 the area there is in our four to the south of the subject site as well as 03:21:23.960 --> 03:21:31.880 across the street you may remember there was a rezoning across FM 428 in this 03:21:31.880 --> 03:21:36.840 location recently that in our six was approved with an overlay I believe it 03:21:36.840 --> 03:21:42.760 was to restrict the density to a four point six seven dwelling units an acre I 03:21:42.760 --> 03:21:47.160 think somewhere around there so as you get closer to the loop at loop it gets 03:21:47.160 --> 03:21:51.880 it it pulls in more of that commercial zoning so you've got CMG and that's one 03:21:51.880 --> 03:21:55.240 of that's our community mixed use so it does allow a lot of those commercial 03:21:55.240 --> 03:21:59.880 uses to serve the surrounding community to the south there there are a lot of 03:21:59.880 --> 03:22:04.120 neighborhoods with that neighborhood zoning so they are proposing in this on 03:22:04.120 --> 03:22:10.040 this slide to to rezone the subject site to NR 4 and and you can see what that 03:22:10.040 --> 03:22:15.000 would look like if it was approved here's their proposed concept plan I 03:22:15.000 --> 03:22:21.200 would I would just look at this as a concept it is it is a draft if the 03:22:21.200 --> 03:22:25.280 zoning was approved they could develop the site in accordance with that zoning 03:22:25.280 --> 03:22:32.400 both in density and scale and in use so so as this is shown the total land area 03:22:32.400 --> 03:22:39.680 of 96 acres is is developed with 368 homes with some open space area for 03:22:39.680 --> 03:22:47.680 drainage here in the south just a comparison of the of the uses permitted 03:22:47.680 --> 03:22:56.360 in RD five and RD five X versus in our four so so our RD five is is a rural 03:22:56.360 --> 03:23:02.200 district it's our rural residential district and so it it it has residential 03:23:02.200 --> 03:23:08.240 uses single-family agriculture it does permit manufactured housing 03:23:08.240 --> 03:23:14.840 developments commercial uses are are a few of them are permitted but typically 03:23:14.840 --> 03:23:19.680 those you see in rural areas things like a bed and breakfast with a limitation or 03:23:19.680 --> 03:23:26.400 equestrian facilities veterinary clinics so those types of uses in our four has a 03:23:26.400 --> 03:23:31.840 lot of residential uses it primarily is one of our our main residential 03:23:31.840 --> 03:23:36.680 districts in the city it does permit agriculture attached single-family 03:23:36.680 --> 03:23:41.880 dwellings which is also known as a townhome duplexes with the limitation and 03:23:41.880 --> 03:23:47.920 then those single-family homes it doesn't really permit commercial uses it 03:23:47.920 --> 03:23:51.720 does allow veterinary clinics with the limitation but it really is primarily 03:23:51.720 --> 03:23:56.440 primarily a residential district both districts have institutional land uses 03:23:56.440 --> 03:24:00.560 some of those are permitted by right under current zoning under NR four they 03:24:00.560 --> 03:24:05.000 would typically be permitted with a specific use permit the development 03:24:05.000 --> 03:24:10.720 scale for RD five and in our four is the minimum lot size and already five is five 03:24:10.720 --> 03:24:14.760 acres in our four it does allow seven thousand square feet a square foot lots 03:24:14.760 --> 03:24:19.480 for neighborhoods under two acres those neighborhoods over two acres just rely 03:24:19.480 --> 03:24:24.280 on a maximum density and that's four dwelling units per acre lot coverage and 03:24:24.280 --> 03:24:28.340 in our four is a maximum sixty percent and that's all impervious surface within 03:24:28.340 --> 03:24:33.200 the city of Denton and then building height would be 40 feet so the criteria 03:24:33.200 --> 03:24:36.280 for approval is in such after three of the Denton development code the first one 03:24:36.280 --> 03:24:42.120 does it does it meet the future land use map of didn't plan 2030 the future land 03:24:42.120 --> 03:24:46.880 use map shows this area is a rural area the intent is to maintain the rural 03:24:46.880 --> 03:24:51.040 character along the city's edge with development and farms and ranches I'm in 03:24:51.040 --> 03:24:55.480 very low density writ rural residential and conservation development the proposed 03:24:55.480 --> 03:24:59.320 in our four due to the density associated with it does not meet this 03:24:59.320 --> 03:25:05.040 future land use designation so then it kicks to another criteria another set of 03:25:05.040 --> 03:25:08.680 criteria for approval and those are also in sub chapter three of the Denton 03:25:08.680 --> 03:25:12.440 development code and there are seven criteria they're listed here they're 03:25:12.440 --> 03:25:16.320 also listed in your backup with some analysis associated with which with each 03:25:16.320 --> 03:25:20.280 we won't go over every single one we'll just go over some of them and we'll 03:25:20.280 --> 03:25:26.560 combine some of them just as a discussion so the first two criteria are 03:25:26.560 --> 03:25:32.120 the existing land uses and zoning and impact to future development so so as we 03:25:32.120 --> 03:25:36.880 look at this property it is near rural areas there's a lot of surrounding rural 03:25:36.880 --> 03:25:44.460 area but it is it is urbanizing from the core of the city out so the map here 03:25:44.460 --> 03:25:49.680 kind of shows what kind of development this city has seen in in recent years the 03:25:49.680 --> 03:26:01.320 yellow dots represent recent or future or current developments all the way from 03:26:01.320 --> 03:26:05.840 from the Kingsridge development you saw recently and then and then across the 03:26:05.840 --> 03:26:11.040 loop so as you can see there is a lot of development pushing north in the city a 03:26:11.040 --> 03:26:14.680 lot of the interior of the city has filled up and now it's starting to push 03:26:14.680 --> 03:26:20.560 to the north so we're seeing that all across that all across that loop area 03:26:20.560 --> 03:26:25.200 and this really is showing a contiguous growth pattern we are seeing that stage 03:26:25.200 --> 03:26:31.320 development filling in interior and then moving out outside of the loop however 03:26:31.320 --> 03:26:35.520 this you know this is a lot this is a lot of development it's a lot of new 03:26:35.520 --> 03:26:41.200 residents to our community and so staff really wanted to make sure that we we got 03:26:41.200 --> 03:26:45.920 our hands around and understood what the traffic concerns were and so there has 03:26:45.920 --> 03:26:48.960 been a traffic study that is currently under review we're going to go over in a 03:26:48.960 --> 03:26:54.840 minute but just to just to lay the groundwork on that so we also looked at 03:26:54.840 --> 03:27:00.040 the existing land uses in zoning it is adjacent to existing in our four so if 03:27:00.040 --> 03:27:03.640 this was approved it wouldn't be an isolated zoning district it would be an 03:27:03.640 --> 03:27:08.720 extension of that existing zoning pattern and if I proved that in our four 03:27:08.720 --> 03:27:12.920 and the development associated with it could provide a buffer area for those 03:27:12.920 --> 03:27:21.840 outlying rural areas to the to the Sherman that FM 428 as well as a lot of 03:27:21.840 --> 03:27:27.600 that that intense development that is that is permitted and probably something 03:27:27.600 --> 03:27:34.240 we'll see in the near future at that intersection of the loop and FM 428 we 03:27:34.240 --> 03:27:38.920 also looked at the public improvement section public improvements associated 03:27:38.920 --> 03:27:43.740 with with the proposed development so the applicant did do a trip generation 03:27:43.740 --> 03:27:50.080 analysis based on the proposed number of homes they they estimated that there 03:27:50.080 --> 03:27:56.480 would be a total of about 3,500 trips per day within a 24-hour period with an 03:27:56.480 --> 03:28:01.640 a.m. peak of 280 and a p.m. peak of 368 we talked in the work session that 03:28:01.640 --> 03:28:05.120 really is that that commuting time when everybody's gonna be going to work and 03:28:05.120 --> 03:28:10.360 when everybody's coming home but beyond that we really wanted to understand not 03:28:10.360 --> 03:28:14.840 just this development but all of those developments on that northeast corridor 03:28:14.840 --> 03:28:19.120 so there was a transportation study commissioned by the city it is being 03:28:19.120 --> 03:28:26.080 reviewed it's it's in draft form right now and just on a top-line assessment 03:28:26.080 --> 03:28:30.640 they are proposing more East East West connections to allow more connectivity 03:28:30.640 --> 03:28:34.680 you know FM 428 it really is the spine that takes you in and out of Denton and 03:28:34.680 --> 03:28:38.600 that and it is kind of the only the only option you have so with more East West 03:28:38.600 --> 03:28:42.040 connections there would be a diff additional connections and other ways to 03:28:42.040 --> 03:28:47.760 go proposing additional travel lanes on existing roads and also to improve 03:28:47.760 --> 03:28:54.360 intersections also with any development roadway impact fees would be paid with 03:28:54.360 --> 03:28:59.280 each building permit and they would they would contribute to previously identified 03:28:59.280 --> 03:29:05.440 improvements namely the dedicated right turn at loop 288 and FM 428 and also a 03:29:05.440 --> 03:29:08.720 signal at that intersection I know that's something that that part of our 03:29:08.720 --> 03:29:17.600 community really wants and needs so here is a draft a draft map that was taken 03:29:17.600 --> 03:29:23.600 from that study and and and staff collaborated with engineering we we 03:29:23.600 --> 03:29:28.560 looked at at at the number of cases and the number of inquiries we got from this 03:29:28.560 --> 03:29:34.200 area and we realized that that we didn't have the capacity to move people around 03:29:34.200 --> 03:29:41.080 if all of those were to move forward so so we collaborated with engineering and 03:29:41.080 --> 03:29:46.240 then and then they hired an outside consultant to create this study and and 03:29:46.240 --> 03:29:50.320 we used a methodology we kind of just assumed blanket to see what if this 03:29:50.320 --> 03:29:55.920 whole area developed with four dwelling units in a an acre as well as some some 03:29:55.920 --> 03:30:01.960 targeted some targeted areas for commercial development that were 03:30:01.960 --> 03:30:10.280 centered around along intersections to to create a node of commercial and mixed 03:30:10.280 --> 03:30:16.200 use activity so so here is the map that they that they have proposed this this 03:30:16.200 --> 03:30:22.520 gray line is the study boundary so you could see it took in a lot of land the 03:30:22.520 --> 03:30:28.120 subject site is in red I drew that so it's probably not to scale and then and 03:30:28.120 --> 03:30:33.200 then the yellows the yellow lines are the proposed streets and and just for for a 03:30:33.200 --> 03:30:40.680 discussion point the subject property here is Hartley field the the the study 03:30:40.680 --> 03:30:44.880 indicates that the best placement for for this East West connection would be to 03:30:44.880 --> 03:30:51.760 align Hartley field and bisect this property extending beyond 428 and then 03:30:51.760 --> 03:30:59.800 and then tying in to the West this would be an arterial and and it would improve 03:30:59.800 --> 03:31:06.200 the mobility of the area we also looked at water and sewer there are 12 inch 03:31:06.200 --> 03:31:11.200 water and water lines to the north and south of the property if they if if it 03:31:11.200 --> 03:31:16.760 was approved and they did move forward with development that one of those lines 03:31:16.760 --> 03:31:19.880 the north or the south would have to be extended across the frontage of the 03:31:19.880 --> 03:31:25.360 site so that would be up to the applicant sewer extensions there is 03:31:25.360 --> 03:31:28.800 sewer to the south that would have to be extended across the property and a lift 03:31:28.800 --> 03:31:35.880 station would be required there we also talked to Denton ISD about about this 03:31:35.880 --> 03:31:41.520 proposal and based upon their formula there is adequate capacity within those 03:31:41.520 --> 03:31:46.040 schools that are within the attendance boundary of this property currently they 03:31:46.040 --> 03:31:50.360 have adequate capacity and then with any development there is parkland 03:31:50.360 --> 03:31:55.840 dedication fees paid at platting and then a park development fee paid with with 03:31:55.840 --> 03:32:01.200 each building permit so they would contribute to our park system we also 03:32:01.200 --> 03:32:06.440 looked at the consideration of character and land use so this is a rural area and 03:32:06.440 --> 03:32:12.640 so but when you look around the entire site you see that this staged development 03:32:12.640 --> 03:32:17.440 that that is coming forward and these cases that are coming forward are moving 03:32:17.440 --> 03:32:22.920 down our arterials and and they're coming to that urban periphery and so so 03:32:22.920 --> 03:32:27.640 development on the in these locations may be appropriate and especially 03:32:27.640 --> 03:32:33.200 something like NR4 where the uses are our single-family residential uses which 03:32:33.200 --> 03:32:36.720 are consistent with a lot of the the uses we see out there so it wouldn't 03:32:36.720 --> 03:32:41.560 introduce any any new uses that may be incompatible with those those those 03:32:41.560 --> 03:32:47.640 residents however there are two uses within NR4 we felt weren't compatible 03:32:47.640 --> 03:32:52.240 and those were duplexes in townhomes we felt like those were just adding just a 03:32:52.240 --> 03:32:55.720 new type of residential development that really isn't something that maybe we 03:32:55.720 --> 03:33:00.240 want to see in this area so if you recommend approval of this staff staff 03:33:00.240 --> 03:33:05.880 recommends that an overlay that restricts the duplexes in townhomes to 03:33:05.880 --> 03:33:08.800 really make this to really ensure that this would be a single-family 03:33:08.800 --> 03:33:14.160 development notification was sent out this is a pretty prominent part of our 03:33:14.160 --> 03:33:20.080 city and so we've received quite a few letters three of those letters are 03:33:20.080 --> 03:33:25.280 within that 200 foot boundary we we have 20 additional that were outside of that 03:33:25.280 --> 03:33:29.440 20 foot boundary or 200 foot boundary but you should have all of those letters 03:33:29.440 --> 03:33:33.880 and I know I gave you all a bunch tonight a lot of reading but but those 03:33:33.880 --> 03:33:39.960 opposition did represent 18% of the land area so based upon the criteria for 03:33:39.960 --> 03:33:45.920 approval the overall goals of didn't plan 2030 and our analysis of the site 03:33:45.920 --> 03:33:51.840 we recommend approval of the K of the of the in our four zoning district with the 03:33:51.840 --> 03:33:57.000 condition that duplexes and townhomes not be permitted and I'll stand for any 03:33:57.000 --> 03:34:00.240 questions and the applicant is here thank you we do have some questions 03:34:00.240 --> 03:34:06.320 Commissioner Pernetta yeah just a few questions so that area just to the I 03:34:06.320 --> 03:34:11.400 guess the southeast of that Hartley and everything that's ETJ right so that's 03:34:11.400 --> 03:34:17.160 not zoned correct yes sir and and above that all the striped area that's the already 03:34:17.160 --> 03:34:23.320 five axis just pull placeholder right now is with all that being placeholder 03:34:23.320 --> 03:34:30.440 can you refresh my memory why did we zone that strip that kind of green strip 03:34:30.440 --> 03:34:36.520 like it's on what I'm looking at as already five and rather than just leave 03:34:36.520 --> 03:34:42.120 that as a placeholder that was annexed earlier it was a part of a much earlier 03:34:42.120 --> 03:34:48.600 annexation and so it did receive a zoning district with the it was probably 03:34:48.600 --> 03:34:55.440 with the 2002 citywide rezoning so because of because it was an it they 03:34:55.440 --> 03:34:59.600 were annexed at different times okay and we're talking about the future land use 03:34:59.600 --> 03:35:03.640 you know looking at what's going to be I don't want to talk about what's what's 03:35:03.640 --> 03:35:08.920 riding along you know what Sherman becomes because I think in the work 03:35:08.920 --> 03:35:12.040 session we discussed the need for probably some infrastructure and some 03:35:12.040 --> 03:35:17.560 shops and things like that as far as the rest of the striped area the already five 03:35:17.560 --> 03:35:24.320 x with the stuff that would be I guess to the to the east of it what is the what 03:35:24.320 --> 03:35:31.680 is the ideal land use for that zoning for the already 5x zoning yeah because 03:35:31.680 --> 03:35:38.080 because right now what we're saying is along Sherman it is currently zoned already 03:35:38.080 --> 03:35:45.960 five we would be moving this to you know to NR for would we be looking for things 03:35:45.960 --> 03:35:51.960 just inside that to be in our for or are we looking for less density what do we 03:35:51.960 --> 03:35:58.600 know I think as as as property owners approach us we will look at each site 03:35:58.600 --> 03:36:03.960 on it on a case-by-case basis and do an analysis to make sure that that criteria 03:36:03.960 --> 03:36:09.960 approval would be would be well just to analyze in relationship to that criteria 03:36:09.960 --> 03:36:14.640 for approval it is also something that as as we move forward and as we continue 03:36:14.640 --> 03:36:20.120 to plan and grow and and look at our vision for a city you know we'll we'll 03:36:20.120 --> 03:36:24.960 have to we'll have to look at that as as we move forward what we wanted to do in 03:36:24.960 --> 03:36:29.720 particularly with transportation is to look and see how we can can help the 03:36:29.720 --> 03:36:34.880 mobility of the area because I know that is a big cause for concern there's 03:36:34.880 --> 03:36:40.520 there's there's not a lot of a lot of connectivity and so I don't have an 03:36:40.520 --> 03:36:44.000 answer for what we envision there right now other than to look at that future 03:36:44.000 --> 03:36:48.480 land use and if someone came forward with a with a rezoning request to look 03:36:48.480 --> 03:36:52.640 at that case really hard and make sure that it met any criteria that we have 03:36:52.640 --> 03:36:56.640 within the development code yeah and that's kind of what I was concerned with 03:36:56.640 --> 03:37:02.840 because I it feels like if we make this you know in our for we would be kind of 03:37:02.840 --> 03:37:06.640 laying the groundwork for a lot more of it to be along that and I just wanted to 03:37:06.640 --> 03:37:10.600 make sure that we weren't going to be moving away from what the vision would 03:37:10.600 --> 03:37:15.720 be by doing this well look at everyone individually okay thank you 03:37:15.720 --> 03:37:21.760 Christopher back thank you chair thanks Julie can you go back to the concept 03:37:21.760 --> 03:37:28.880 plan sure and if you could and this may be more something that the developer or 03:37:28.880 --> 03:37:34.960 the applicant described but can you the green and blue area okay that's green 03:37:34.960 --> 03:37:41.320 area and drainage what's that orange area they will have to I can't read it 03:37:41.320 --> 03:37:49.200 very well they do have these are these are a variety of lot sizes okay but but 03:37:49.200 --> 03:37:54.760 it it's not you know this isn't so this was just conceptual and this was drawn 03:37:54.760 --> 03:37:59.800 before we informed them that there would probably be an arterial going through 03:37:59.800 --> 03:38:04.720 there okay their site well then I'll wait till I'm trying to pick his brain in all 03:38:04.720 --> 03:38:13.920 right thank you commissioner Sanchez when we talk about RD five that's a 03:38:13.920 --> 03:38:18.360 holding position right as I understand it I'm sorry when you it's a holding 03:38:18.360 --> 03:38:21.920 position it's when you when you bring something into the city then you put it 03:38:21.920 --> 03:38:26.760 RD five and basically hold it there until some request is made well we have 03:38:26.760 --> 03:38:31.400 really two parallel tracks to RD five there is we actually have a zoning 03:38:31.400 --> 03:38:35.120 district RD five and that's that green you see right there so that is their 03:38:35.120 --> 03:38:40.120 zoning RD five X you're correct it is that place holding it follows the rules 03:38:40.120 --> 03:38:46.800 of RD five but yes they're the same thing but slightly different okay so 03:38:46.800 --> 03:38:53.280 because I just wanted some if they if you look at it then I guess I was just 03:38:53.280 --> 03:38:58.800 trying to figure out that when you change it from Marty five to two in our 03:38:58.800 --> 03:39:07.080 four it goes from basically one acre per one structure per acre to four structures 03:39:07.080 --> 03:39:12.520 per acre right it doesn't matter if it's an arty if it's an arty five in or an 03:39:12.520 --> 03:39:17.440 arty five X right an arty five in arty five X the minimum lot size is five 03:39:17.440 --> 03:39:26.320 acres and then it goes to one acre four per one okay okay so that's so they're 03:39:26.320 --> 03:39:32.160 basically the same thing as far as number of structures right I mean already 03:39:32.160 --> 03:39:37.480 five yes sir I mean already five and already five X yes sir okay and we talk 03:39:37.480 --> 03:39:43.760 about that being at one time it's rural it was a rural district or it's 03:39:43.760 --> 03:39:48.200 considered rural district outside 288 but that was because during the 2030 03:39:48.200 --> 03:39:53.720 plan it wasn't it was kind of considered that there was going to be a whole lot 03:39:53.720 --> 03:39:58.480 of development up there right so that is that why it's pretty much considered the 03:39:58.480 --> 03:40:02.880 didn't plan really wanted to see staged growth within the city and so they 03:40:02.880 --> 03:40:11.440 really wanted the interior to fill up and then to move out and so so comp plans 03:40:11.440 --> 03:40:15.480 or should be updated every five years so we're actually coming up we should we 03:40:15.480 --> 03:40:21.820 should be updating it so um we have grown a lot faster than I think we 03:40:21.820 --> 03:40:26.240 probably anticipated so we really have filled up a lot of those a lot of those 03:40:26.240 --> 03:40:31.040 especially larger tracks within the city in order to get those those 03:40:31.040 --> 03:40:35.000 subdivisions those larger residential subdivisions so now we're really 03:40:35.000 --> 03:40:42.560 starting to see that development push out to those to those northern areas it 03:40:42.560 --> 03:40:47.200 was not anticipated all this growth was an anticipated and therefore you know a 03:40:47.200 --> 03:40:52.280 lot of people are being shocked especially in North Denton is what the 03:40:52.280 --> 03:40:55.840 growth in order then I used to live in North Denton I mean for years nothing 03:40:55.840 --> 03:41:01.960 was happening there and all of a sudden that growth is just blown up when I 03:41:01.960 --> 03:41:05.920 started here five years ago they was like oh that's never and now everything 03:41:05.920 --> 03:41:10.280 was in the south and I think a lot of people waking up and saying what what's 03:41:10.280 --> 03:41:14.680 happening here but it's just the growth that's that wasn't anticipated and I 03:41:14.680 --> 03:41:18.640 just wanted to mention that is that basically it wasn't even in the 2030 03:41:18.640 --> 03:41:22.440 plan it wasn't anticipated that was gonna happen and now you're looking at 03:41:22.440 --> 03:41:26.920 you're having to go back and look at all these roads mm-hmm that we weren't even 03:41:26.920 --> 03:41:29.880 accounting that we weren't even accounted for or people were thinking 03:41:29.880 --> 03:41:35.680 well we don't have to worry about that but now it has to be considered 03:41:35.680 --> 03:41:42.960 mr. Beck thank you chair Julie let me put you in a spot here a little bit okay 03:41:42.960 --> 03:41:48.360 would it be safe to say that the future land use map our concept plan is more of 03:41:48.360 --> 03:41:55.200 a concept any kind of legal tool of any kind it's a policy document it's a 03:41:55.200 --> 03:42:01.920 guiding document for us to look at as to guide our decisions so you it's it's 03:42:01.920 --> 03:42:06.160 different than zoning and zoning is the law zoning is how you develop so it is 03:42:06.160 --> 03:42:11.640 that policy document now our zoning should reflect what our vision is within 03:42:11.640 --> 03:42:15.720 the comprehensive plan the debt and development code allows us to look a 03:42:15.720 --> 03:42:23.520 little more broadly and and not just not be have a myopic view of the future land 03:42:23.520 --> 03:42:31.120 use map but also look at other criteria if we if we feel that a case is meets 03:42:31.120 --> 03:42:37.560 that additional criteria so you're right it is not the law like zoning is it is 03:42:37.560 --> 03:42:44.280 that policy guiding document no other questions for you Julie thank you this 03:42:44.280 --> 03:42:48.440 is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak can do so we just asked that you 03:42:48.440 --> 03:42:53.600 fill out one of these blue cards to do that and we'll add you to the queue but 03:42:53.600 --> 03:42:59.680 first to present will be the applicant Lee Allison Lee as you know you have up 03:42:59.680 --> 03:43:05.680 to 20 minutes since we have more than one speaker listed here I may take 20 03:43:05.680 --> 03:43:09.360 minutes just trying to figure out how to get my slideshow on here this needs a 03:43:09.360 --> 03:43:13.920 little help and then for you to state your name and address for the record 03:43:13.920 --> 03:43:35.200 I will do thank you there you go sir right there there we go I'm learning 03:43:35.200 --> 03:43:39.200 that's faster than last time good evening I'm Lee Allison with Allison 03:43:39.200 --> 03:43:45.520 engineering group with this with me this evening or Todd price John Heilman and 03:43:45.520 --> 03:43:51.480 Rick Rushton the applicants the the developers and also Schaefer Harris and 03:43:51.480 --> 03:43:56.120 Sue Allison from our office as usual staff has done made an excellent 03:43:56.120 --> 03:43:59.400 presentation and we're just going to kind of jump in to try and supplement 03:43:59.400 --> 03:44:04.040 what they've done not try and repeat I hope and save a lot of time and not use 03:44:04.040 --> 03:44:11.440 those 20 minutes there were a number of responses turned in you have them in 03:44:11.440 --> 03:44:16.040 your packet in the forms of emails and forms well we did as best we could we 03:44:16.040 --> 03:44:20.160 looked at the address we tried to see which piece of property they were 03:44:20.160 --> 03:44:24.840 representing and that they might own one of the nearby properties and live in a 03:44:24.840 --> 03:44:29.400 different place but if not we use the address 11 of the responses had no 03:44:29.400 --> 03:44:32.760 address so we couldn't get those but that's a scattering of where the 03:44:32.760 --> 03:44:38.920 responses came from throughout the area summary of them we we counted 32 03:44:38.920 --> 03:44:43.320 responses some of those responses might have come from the same address two 03:44:43.320 --> 03:44:48.000 people from the same address separate responses 21 of those associated with 03:44:48.000 --> 03:44:53.000 traffic 18 with an I call urbanization in other words the city of didn't growing 03:44:53.000 --> 03:44:56.840 that's what cities do otherwise if you're not going to grow your didn't 03:44:56.840 --> 03:45:02.720 County infrastructure needs were for drainage to there was an adjoining pond 03:45:02.720 --> 03:45:06.440 I'm talking about the one in the south eastern part of the property we'll talk 03:45:06.440 --> 03:45:10.280 more detail later someone had a concern with the duplexes somebody mentioned 03:45:10.280 --> 03:45:15.040 crime and density somebody thought we're getting a DAX abatement need a stoplight 03:45:15.040 --> 03:45:19.480 at hardly field road green areas somehow they got thinking we're looking at 800 03:45:19.480 --> 03:45:24.880 homes not 368 in the future land use plan altogether there were 29 that were 03:45:24.880 --> 03:45:29.520 negative or I would label them opposed to were actually in favor and one was 03:45:29.520 --> 03:45:35.800 neutral we tried to address them the traffic there is a master thoroughfare 03:45:35.800 --> 03:45:40.360 plan we started out with one master thoroughfare plan years ago we had 03:45:40.360 --> 03:45:44.320 another meeting with staff months ago and had one set of ideas and then staff 03:45:44.320 --> 03:45:49.920 initiated their own thoroughfare study and now we've got another one we're 03:45:49.920 --> 03:45:54.440 working on so the city's updated it we've met with the city and when we do 03:45:54.440 --> 03:45:59.360 get into this we will prepare a detailed traffic impact analysis that that fine 03:45:59.360 --> 03:46:04.080 tunes our development to mesh in with what the city is already done 03:46:04.080 --> 03:46:08.600 urbanization that's abuse municipal responsibility there's due processes 03:46:08.600 --> 03:46:13.600 associated with it long-term planning 2030 plans plans that need to be 03:46:13.600 --> 03:46:19.400 updated today regarding what's happening master planning then we get into the 03:46:19.400 --> 03:46:23.280 zoning planning and building permits neighborhood meetings and public hearings 03:46:23.280 --> 03:46:28.720 this is where we are today as far as infrastructure following the city's 03:46:28.720 --> 03:46:33.440 master planning process to accommodate growth and we will certainly contribute 03:46:33.440 --> 03:46:38.160 our proportional share of that CCN that's a certificate of convenience and 03:46:38.160 --> 03:46:44.760 necessity it's not just the city limits the city has a responsibility to provide 03:46:44.760 --> 03:46:49.640 water and sewer service within what's called their CCN and that goes almost 03:46:49.640 --> 03:46:55.820 up to 455 to the north for example for water and wastewater it's shared with 03:46:55.820 --> 03:46:59.280 Bolivar Water Supply Corporation and they have some for the electric 03:46:59.280 --> 03:47:03.560 department as well it's not near as big but they've got responsibilities for 03:47:03.560 --> 03:47:09.320 that the adjoining pond to the southeast the Domsons we're working directly with 03:47:09.320 --> 03:47:14.760 them too because that pod actually straddles the property line and we're 03:47:14.760 --> 03:47:18.360 working with them in any design efforts that will go there but we haven't gotten 03:47:18.360 --> 03:47:23.040 to design yet drainage there was two comments about drainage one of those 03:47:23.040 --> 03:47:27.120 sites actually is on higher ground about 15 feet or so higher than ours so we're 03:47:27.120 --> 03:47:32.400 not going to be draining on them another was concerned with pollution as you're 03:47:32.400 --> 03:47:37.160 aware we have detention requirements and with that comes I swim water quality 03:47:37.160 --> 03:47:42.920 provisions as well so that'll be addressed as we go along duplexes will 03:47:42.920 --> 03:47:47.480 restrict with the overlay crime and density I said master plan that's really 03:47:47.480 --> 03:47:54.520 general government master planning for police fire number of policemen needed 03:47:54.520 --> 03:48:00.000 location of police stations patrols etc that's really beyond our capabilities 03:48:00.000 --> 03:48:05.120 tax abatement there's not any to be clear stoplight at Harley-Field Road 03:48:05.120 --> 03:48:08.320 that will be addressed with the master thoroughfare plan I'm not trying to 03:48:08.320 --> 03:48:11.440 imply there's one included in there that'll just be addressed at that and 03:48:11.440 --> 03:48:16.800 there's other ways to manage that traffic through there green areas yes 03:48:16.800 --> 03:48:23.160 green areas are needed and I think it's good to our spot applications but also 03:48:23.160 --> 03:48:27.080 as you'll see on another exhibit the massive floodplain just north of us 03:48:27.080 --> 03:48:33.240 there's great opportunities for green spaces in the city 800 homes 368 the 03:48:33.240 --> 03:48:38.600 maximum future land use plan it primarily is a placeholder when this area 03:48:38.600 --> 03:48:42.840 was that strip was annexed and zone is the already five the already five was the 03:48:42.840 --> 03:48:47.680 old axe which ag which was the old placeholder and now it's just coming in 03:48:47.680 --> 03:48:52.440 as already 5x to make sure it's known as a placeholder some of our features 03:48:52.440 --> 03:48:56.000 we're gonna include perimeter fence along the arterials particularly Sherman 03:48:56.000 --> 03:49:00.260 Drive that's not required by the code it'll be a common fence with 03:49:00.260 --> 03:49:05.520 architectural features don't want to say it's gonna be a monolithic masonry wall 03:49:05.520 --> 03:49:09.040 but it'll be a nice architectural fence it's not going to be a typical wood 03:49:09.040 --> 03:49:14.160 privacy fence we don't want it open to the backyards and we want it installed 03:49:14.160 --> 03:49:17.600 with phase development not by homeowners so instead of getting built as each 03:49:17.600 --> 03:49:20.720 house gets get built it'll be constructed with the sections and it'll 03:49:20.720 --> 03:49:25.480 be HOA maintained if need be this is something we could add to the overlay 03:49:25.480 --> 03:49:30.120 restrictions amenity centers there'll be a recreation area with meeting rooms 03:49:30.120 --> 03:49:35.560 swimming pool outdoor sports court and we're proposing a one acre minimum we've 03:49:35.560 --> 03:49:40.360 probably got closer to one and a half or two total in our development this helps 03:49:40.360 --> 03:49:49.300 I say helps her we've heard some concern about entry-level housing and the size 03:49:49.300 --> 03:49:52.920 of the lots well what keeps it from being entry-level housing is when you 03:49:52.920 --> 03:49:56.720 add amenity centers and you add perimeter walls etc that drives the price 03:49:56.720 --> 03:50:02.040 a lot up and if you're probably aware typically your market home values four 03:50:02.040 --> 03:50:06.000 to five times what the lot cost is so as you drive the lot cost up you're driving 03:50:06.000 --> 03:50:10.120 the home price up which gets you out of the entry-level housing market so this 03:50:10.120 --> 03:50:16.420 is not an entry-level development detention ponds if needed we like to 03:50:16.420 --> 03:50:21.240 make those multifunctional I like to put a basketball court in the bottom or a 03:50:21.240 --> 03:50:27.080 picnic pavilion when an HOA can use its detention pond for something other than 03:50:27.080 --> 03:50:33.200 utilitarian purposes they're more likely to take care of it and look after it and 03:50:33.200 --> 03:50:38.240 be sensitive to it we like to put some landscape trees in there and we allow 03:50:38.240 --> 03:50:42.600 for the volume of the trees for the volume of the pond the existing pond in 03:50:42.600 --> 03:50:45.540 the southeast corner we're going to design joint with a neighbor it's a 03:50:45.540 --> 03:50:50.200 great area for picnic park we'll do some detention there could be fishing and it 03:50:50.200 --> 03:50:56.080 also acts as a buffer to the existing developments to the south and east of us 03:50:56.080 --> 03:51:00.760 we've had some meetings with other neighbors one was a buddy and Bessie Lou 03:51:00.760 --> 03:51:05.020 Dobson they're the owners of that pond to the southeast working with the design 03:51:05.020 --> 03:51:07.520 on them and I believe they're in favor of this 03:51:07.520 --> 03:51:12.480 Susan Smith was very gracious to meet with us she has the property to the 03:51:12.480 --> 03:51:17.560 north beautiful stock tanks on there concerned about what was coming over 03:51:17.560 --> 03:51:21.280 there in the way of drainage and we have committed we met with her and her 03:51:21.280 --> 03:51:26.440 engineer we have committed to involve them in our design and analysis 03:51:26.440 --> 03:51:31.560 particularly related to drainage from day one with a preliminary plant Mrs. 03:51:31.560 --> 03:51:35.080 Smith is not in favor of this project and we haven't won her over and I don't 03:51:35.080 --> 03:51:38.800 want to sit here and speak for her and say that because we've met her that that 03:51:38.800 --> 03:51:43.000 we've changed her thoughts on anything another person we've met with is Ron 03:51:43.000 --> 03:51:50.200 Carter he's not expressed in writing favor war opposition but he's a major 03:51:50.200 --> 03:51:54.720 landowner to the east of us and we want to coordinate with him as far as 03:51:54.720 --> 03:51:59.160 connectivity and planning drainage and other things towards that property and 03:51:59.160 --> 03:52:04.160 we will with other property owners as well but those were the major ones this 03:52:04.160 --> 03:52:09.680 is kind of what's going on in the area I think it's interesting the bright green 03:52:09.680 --> 03:52:15.480 is our agave ranch DSD has bought this property across from us no commitments 03:52:15.480 --> 03:52:21.800 to what's going there this area was recently rezoned in our six here is the 03:52:21.800 --> 03:52:29.600 tech center the stadium in the water park right here this dark space is 03:52:29.600 --> 03:52:33.920 actually owned by the city of Denton it is a booster pump station at one time 03:52:33.920 --> 03:52:39.120 when Lake Ray Roberts was constructed and the main line was run down 428 it 03:52:39.120 --> 03:52:43.120 was going to be a low-pressure line and there's be a booster pump here instead 03:52:43.120 --> 03:52:47.560 they made high pressure from the lake so that's fully pressurized line and that's 03:52:47.560 --> 03:52:51.280 not needed as a booster pump but I have no idea what the plans for it might be 03:52:51.280 --> 03:52:57.880 at this time and over here in this dark area pardon me is land that the city 03:52:57.880 --> 03:53:01.440 purchased for the purpose of developing a wastewater treatment plant to serve 03:53:01.440 --> 03:53:05.680 this area as it develops long term in the future so even though it was owned 03:53:05.680 --> 03:53:10.760 RDX it's certainly not anticipated this area will remain on septic systems as 03:53:10.760 --> 03:53:14.720 you would with rural residential development what triggered a lot of this 03:53:14.720 --> 03:53:22.120 was developments here in the in the 90s before the bust came would be bringing 03:53:22.120 --> 03:53:26.880 wastewater this direction over to this plant when it comes to some of the 03:53:26.880 --> 03:53:31.280 commercial activities there's commercial land already zoned here but it hasn't 03:53:31.280 --> 03:53:35.880 developed because the lack of demand commercial areas here you can find some 03:53:35.880 --> 03:53:41.560 commercial I believe over along King Row McKinney Street over to where 77 03:53:41.560 --> 03:53:46.000 interlinks sex 288 and there's a large amount of commercial available at the 03:53:46.000 --> 03:53:50.560 corner loop 288 and 35 that hasn't developed yet one of the primary 03:53:50.560 --> 03:53:54.600 obstacles of developing to the north north of the loop has been the lack of 03:53:54.600 --> 03:53:58.880 water and wastewater particularly wastewater it's going to take 03:53:58.880 --> 03:54:06.480 developments to come along to accomplish this these dots on here are what's online 03:54:06.480 --> 03:54:11.560 now is the master thoroughfare plan the red dots are primary arterials the green 03:54:11.560 --> 03:54:17.000 dots are secondary and the black dots are collectors and this blue hatched area 03:54:17.000 --> 03:54:22.640 along here is floodplain we've worked some alternative VSAs together 03:54:22.640 --> 03:54:29.640 environmentally sensitive areas this is a great opportunity for the green spaces 03:54:29.640 --> 03:54:33.800 the green belts park trails and bike trails that bring some connectivity 03:54:33.800 --> 03:54:37.920 across the city so that's what's going on around us as we look at this in a 03:54:37.920 --> 03:54:43.520 holistic picture and not just an individual site per the city's thoroughfare 03:54:43.520 --> 03:54:49.760 plan in our meetings with with staff we've determined at that meeting that 03:54:49.760 --> 03:54:54.040 these two blue lines would be where the arterials generally come through our 03:54:54.040 --> 03:55:00.480 site the green area is where our amenity center would be as a result of this 03:55:00.480 --> 03:55:06.520 we've got a new concept plan it's not that much different than the one you saw 03:55:06.520 --> 03:55:10.840 earlier that staff was presenting the differences in the lots you saw were the 03:55:10.840 --> 03:55:16.440 lighter gray were the 50-foot minimum the darker gray were the 60-foot 03:55:16.440 --> 03:55:22.240 minimums and the odd color orange ones were larger odd shaped lots that were 03:55:22.240 --> 03:55:28.280 not rectangular but but worked very well in there here we've got we didn't show 03:55:28.280 --> 03:55:33.000 it extending out to the east but here we have the arterial road coming through in 03:55:33.000 --> 03:55:36.720 discussions with staff we're looking at a roundabout that could also be used as 03:55:36.720 --> 03:55:40.720 an entry feature and work with our amenity center this is the pond of the 03:55:40.720 --> 03:55:45.600 southeast I was discussing where we'll work with the Dobson's on it Mrs. Smith's 03:55:45.600 --> 03:55:51.520 property up here a lot of this area I'd say this area in general drains to her 03:55:51.520 --> 03:55:55.920 ponds so she's certainly concerned about keeping those full and about having 03:55:55.920 --> 03:56:00.440 quality water in there we've talked with staff and they're going to be visiting 03:56:00.440 --> 03:56:05.480 with text out about putting a traffic circle or roundabout at this point rather 03:56:05.480 --> 03:56:11.080 be a roundabout or a signal this arterials it extends to the west and as 03:56:11.080 --> 03:56:15.320 it comes back to Hartley Field Road that might be a better location for a light 03:56:15.320 --> 03:56:18.520 than at Hartley Field Road so this area would empty out at this location 03:56:18.520 --> 03:56:22.160 primarily instead of these areas to the south because of the offsetting 03:56:22.160 --> 03:56:28.280 intersections so what and when I say work in progress we're still going to 03:56:28.280 --> 03:56:31.000 have to sit down and meet with the city and see what's going on with the 03:56:31.000 --> 03:56:35.960 thoroughfare plan we're going to have to work with mr. Dobson on this mr. Carter 03:56:35.960 --> 03:56:40.520 on how we connect with his property here these property owners to see about these 03:56:40.520 --> 03:56:47.160 connectivity roads and of course with mrs. Smith on on how the you know we're 03:56:47.160 --> 03:56:51.520 not going to build the arterial day one and this will be our first phase this 03:56:51.520 --> 03:56:57.700 northern section but putting our wall up here taking the drainage across and we 03:56:57.700 --> 03:57:01.280 certainly meet city criteria but we want to work with her on how we get that water 03:57:01.280 --> 03:57:06.960 over to her property or do something else with it it's gonna be a ranch style 03:57:06.960 --> 03:57:12.360 amenity center existing pond is or proposed detention future are two 03:57:12.360 --> 03:57:17.560 arterials two text on drives in our four zoning for 368 streets for future 03:57:17.560 --> 03:57:23.320 connectivity to the east 376 lots are shown by the way again we hadn't 03:57:23.320 --> 03:57:28.760 fine-tuned this yet it's in progress but there's only going to be 368 03:57:28.760 --> 03:57:33.680 detentions to be determined we're still working on that the green areas are 03:57:33.680 --> 03:57:38.480 pocket amenity areas in addition to the main one the home builder that's looking 03:57:38.480 --> 03:57:44.160 at this right now is Kay Hovani and homes that's an example of one of their 03:57:44.160 --> 03:57:50.560 homes that one's around 3,000 square feet and there's another one at about 2600 I 03:57:50.560 --> 03:57:55.480 think I can't read that well and I'll be glad to respond to any questions at this 03:57:55.480 --> 03:57:58.720 time thank you for your presentation we have a couple questions 03:57:58.720 --> 03:58:07.040 mr. pernetta yeah actually this is more for Julie he mentioned the area just 03:58:07.040 --> 03:58:14.120 below where the school where the district is purchased property was zoned 03:58:14.120 --> 03:58:19.640 in nr6 did you say that was nr6 with an overlay it does overlay to restrict the 03:58:19.640 --> 03:58:25.600 density like like 4.6 somewhere around there it's a little over four dwelling 03:58:25.600 --> 03:58:30.160 units per acre okay thank you that's that's the clarification 03:58:30.160 --> 03:58:36.640 Christian back thank you chair thanks Lee for your presentation guys usually put 03:58:36.640 --> 03:58:40.160 a lot of thought a lot of work into these things I appreciate that and I 03:58:40.160 --> 03:58:42.880 know we're dealing with a zone change request here but I'm sure a lot of 03:58:42.880 --> 03:58:46.760 people are curious if everything gets approved and moves forward how long are 03:58:46.760 --> 03:58:51.160 you looking at before people are ready to move in to this can you give us a 03:58:51.160 --> 03:58:58.640 rough idea this summer to fall because we got to get all the designs done and 03:58:58.640 --> 03:59:06.520 approved as far and go through the planning process so I would say 18 03:59:06.520 --> 03:59:10.800 months before we're ready to start building homes out there from now 03:59:10.800 --> 03:59:16.760 building building homes yeah it'll take after that another two to three years to 03:59:16.760 --> 03:59:24.880 build that and we're doing this in two phases thank you chair mr. Allison thank 03:59:24.880 --> 03:59:29.000 you you mentioned in your presentation something about adding the perimeter 03:59:29.000 --> 03:59:34.880 fencing to an overlay what did you mean by that staff has recommended overlay 03:59:34.880 --> 03:59:41.720 restriction that will require no duplexes and no single-family attached if 03:59:41.720 --> 03:59:44.880 it was of interest to the Commission because perimeter fences along their 03:59:44.880 --> 03:59:49.440 materials particularly loop 28 and I may need I mean for 28 I may need some help 03:59:49.440 --> 03:59:53.400 Julie but I don't think they're required in the code and we're willing to make 03:59:53.400 --> 03:59:58.640 those a requirement so they would be a consistent and not like we have on loop 03:59:58.640 --> 04:00:02.920 28 now where there's the backside of some privacy fences built individually 04:00:02.920 --> 04:00:07.560 and falling over at different times and to be HOA maintained as well not 04:00:07.560 --> 04:00:20.860 individual and that would be something we could include in an overlay in sub 04:00:20.860 --> 04:00:26.960 chapter 5 there is a residential mixed-use protection overlay and it does 04:00:26.960 --> 04:00:42.720 talk about in screening and landscaping so let me get to that so the applicant 04:00:42.720 --> 04:00:46.880 may consent to the imposition of increased setback landscaping screening 04:00:46.880 --> 04:00:51.440 or buffer requirements allowing the borders of such existing residential 04:00:51.440 --> 04:00:57.880 uses or to the input imposition of additional use or performance based 04:00:57.880 --> 04:01:02.480 restrictions upon the proposed underlying zoning cast classification 04:01:02.480 --> 04:01:11.600 and use designation so that sounds like a yes yes I'd like to add and I might 04:01:11.600 --> 04:01:16.880 have a question for Julie as well and then mr. Beck as far as the upcoming 04:01:16.880 --> 04:01:23.560 zoning that's underway and the mixed-use residential or the mixed-use corridor 04:01:23.560 --> 04:01:28.460 along 428 here's why I need help from Julie my understanding is that's more 04:01:28.460 --> 04:01:32.320 dense than what we're proposing and it still allows single-family residential 04:01:32.320 --> 04:01:38.400 in that so I don't know that that would throw our plans off any really and I 04:01:38.400 --> 04:01:45.320 kind of feel like we waited for staff to complete the traffic study we were ready 04:01:45.320 --> 04:01:49.160 to come last September October and I kind of feel like I'm in that vortex in 04:01:49.160 --> 04:01:52.320 the drain you're kind of waiting for everything to stop spinning and let's 04:01:52.320 --> 04:01:58.040 settle down and get going but appreciate it anything else the only question I 04:01:58.040 --> 04:02:06.480 have for you is there's 92 acres which provides 368 how many acres do you 04:02:06.480 --> 04:02:12.520 anticipate not being developed in terms of pond roads amenity center like what 04:02:12.520 --> 04:02:18.560 the 92 acres what's usable develop oh my goodness when you take the roads and 04:02:18.560 --> 04:02:23.040 everything out I mean might just to be clear I'm trying to understand what the 04:02:23.040 --> 04:02:26.800 lot size is gonna be it's not gonna be quarter acre lots oh no no so I'm trying 04:02:26.800 --> 04:02:32.400 to understand like they're gonna be like six thousand would be the smallest and 04:02:32.400 --> 04:02:36.600 they could be up to eight maybe a couple in there in the ten thousand range 04:02:36.600 --> 04:02:41.440 perfect that's the only questions we have at this point I'm sure I would stay 04:02:41.440 --> 04:02:46.400 close so this so this is a public hearing I do have some cards that will 04:02:46.400 --> 04:02:51.920 go through as just a reminder to both the audience and the Commission audience 04:02:51.920 --> 04:02:54.520 numbers have four minutes to speak at the end of four minutes you'll hear a 04:02:54.520 --> 04:02:59.480 ding we just ask that you wrap up your thoughts pretty promptly after the bell 04:02:59.480 --> 04:03:05.880 and then for the Commission if you have if the audience has questions that are 04:03:05.880 --> 04:03:08.920 needed to be addressed by staff and we just jot those down and have the 04:03:08.920 --> 04:03:14.040 applicant and staff come up at the end instead of going back and forth between 04:03:14.040 --> 04:03:18.600 resident and staff that'd be extremely helpful for the pace of this because we 04:03:18.600 --> 04:03:24.400 have several cards that being said the first card I have is for Sharon Krimmer 04:03:24.400 --> 04:03:30.520 or crimev I don't know Kramer if you just state your name and yes I will 04:03:30.520 --> 04:03:36.360 address all right Sharon Kramer as many of you up there know and my address is 04:03:36.360 --> 04:03:44.160 three five seven four pine trail before eight one one system came in I lived at 04:03:44.160 --> 04:03:50.120 2900 Hartley Field Road is the easiest move I ever made I just changed the 04:03:50.120 --> 04:03:57.360 stationary and stayed in place I am bred and born and raised and reared and 04:03:57.360 --> 04:04:06.280 careered and raised my family in Denton Texas so I've been here 65 years and going 04:04:06.280 --> 04:04:13.240 and I've lived in my now pine trail residents prior Hartley Field Road for 40 04:04:13.240 --> 04:04:19.880 years so I've seen loop 288 come in and adjusted to that and I know that change 04:04:19.880 --> 04:04:25.520 is inevitable I know that growth is inevitable unless you work really hard at 04:04:25.520 --> 04:04:31.120 the end at the gym and never eat as many M&Ms as I do and I know that what you 04:04:31.120 --> 04:04:40.080 guys do all of you guys and is inclusive is often thankless is often done in the 04:04:40.080 --> 04:04:50.720 face of rancor is often done in the face of slick myopic presentations and you 04:04:50.720 --> 04:04:57.760 guard the vision of Denton and I appreciate that you keep in mind that we 04:04:57.760 --> 04:05:04.980 want a livable community that we want a diverse community that we want a vibrant 04:05:04.980 --> 04:05:10.120 community I'm catching my breath not only because I'm speaking in public all 04:05:10.120 --> 04:05:14.920 the 100 years of teaching school happily means I'm used to seeing 25 and 35 04:05:14.920 --> 04:05:20.360 ninth graders and you may get homework at the end of this I don't know in fact I 04:05:20.360 --> 04:05:24.840 do have homework for you to do that is to come out with me some morning and my 04:05:24.840 --> 04:05:29.800 very friendly dog and take a lovely four-mile walk down Hartley Field Road 04:05:29.800 --> 04:05:36.240 Hartley Field Road is a county road it is a blacktop road there's no dividing 04:05:36.240 --> 04:05:41.920 line there is no shoulder there is really very little maintenance and I'm 04:05:41.920 --> 04:05:47.720 catching my breath because my notes that I wrote I'm kind of abandoning when I saw 04:05:47.720 --> 04:05:52.920 the traffic study I thought I wish I'd seen that I couldn't get all the stuff 04:05:52.920 --> 04:05:59.800 to pull up from the city you're gonna have a road emptying a traffic road 04:05:59.800 --> 04:06:07.160 carrying commuters onto Hartley Field Road by the looks of the map it's less 04:06:07.160 --> 04:06:17.640 than 150 feet from my mailbox my mailbox gets hit regularly regularly when I take 04:06:17.640 --> 04:06:20.760 my city trash cans because I pay for city service because they have to go 04:06:20.760 --> 04:06:24.960 down to the Green Belt which is just a mile down Hartley Field Road which didn't 04:06:24.960 --> 04:06:31.320 come up in any of those plans the Green Belt has been expanded north and I didn't 04:06:31.320 --> 04:06:36.080 see Clear Creek Heritage Center mentioned in those plans so come drive 04:06:36.080 --> 04:06:43.160 around with me come see that area Hartley Field Road can't take a city trash 04:06:43.160 --> 04:06:50.760 truck and an oncoming car that's when my dog and I step off into the pasture four 04:06:50.760 --> 04:06:59.160 or five feet growth is inevitable change is inevitable you read my letter I grew 04:06:59.160 --> 04:07:04.440 up at a dinner table hearing my dad who was a developer and a builder and whose 04:07:04.440 --> 04:07:10.320 homes are 60 years old talk to someone who lives in one of them they're still 04:07:10.320 --> 04:07:15.480 standing they're still strong they're still functioning we've all lived through 04:07:15.480 --> 04:07:21.720 Savannah on 380 we've seen what got built I have friends who live there 04:07:21.720 --> 04:07:31.080 there's slapdash and we've also you've seen the paper today we've all seen what 04:07:31.080 --> 04:07:40.200 happens to traffic on 380 428 can't bear the traffic with a light at the loop 04:07:40.200 --> 04:07:44.760 which is a good thing because I had to break for a car running the stop sign 04:07:44.760 --> 04:07:52.120 and I'm done that's okay thanks thank you very much 04:07:52.120 --> 04:08:00.000 next card I have is for miss Susan Smith 04:08:00.000 --> 04:08:09.680 hello and thank you for listening to my comments my name is Susan Smith my 04:08:09.680 --> 04:08:16.400 address is 7736 FM 428 and I'm one of the closest neighbors directly impacted 04:08:16.400 --> 04:08:21.000 by this proposal on the north side and I have several concerns and I think you 04:08:21.000 --> 04:08:24.600 guys have already gotten my sheet where I outlined in it a little bit more 04:08:24.600 --> 04:08:29.520 detail so I'm going to try to go really fast and hit the highlights I too 04:08:29.520 --> 04:08:36.000 understand that Denton must grow but what I'm wondering is why we can't have 04:08:36.000 --> 04:08:41.120 planned growth that incorporates necessary infrastructure to protect our 04:08:41.120 --> 04:08:46.320 safety and why can't we have growth that reflects the plan that Denton has 04:08:46.320 --> 04:08:52.000 already approved and laid out for us in their comprehensive 2030 plan from what 04:08:52.000 --> 04:08:57.640 I'm hearing today I think you guys are abandoning our 2030 plan and I hate to 04:08:57.640 --> 04:09:05.040 see that happen by approving this plan as proposed you're also establishing a 04:09:05.040 --> 04:09:10.360 dangerous precedent for all the growth in the future you've already approved 04:09:10.360 --> 04:09:15.120 high-density housing for Stark farms across the street that's 400 plus homes 04:09:15.120 --> 04:09:23.080 now you're adding another 368 homes plus all the other traffic that's on 428 does 04:09:23.080 --> 04:09:27.640 this not mean that every future development that comes up has this 04:09:27.640 --> 04:09:32.640 precedent to go by and gets approved just because the last one did that's 04:09:32.640 --> 04:09:37.160 what I'm hearing about this plan because of Stark farms is this really what we 04:09:37.160 --> 04:09:44.520 want and it raises a couple of issues the most important being as Sharon so 04:09:44.520 --> 04:09:49.160 succinctly said the insufficient infrastructure for our traffic and 04:09:49.160 --> 04:09:54.360 safety we don't have the current infrastructure you can create you're 04:09:54.360 --> 04:09:59.120 creating a very dangerous situation on what's already a very crowded road it's 04:09:59.120 --> 04:10:04.200 dangerous for all of us that travel it now I can only imagine what it's going to 04:10:04.200 --> 04:10:11.240 be when these other two developments are built out to take a left turn on 428 is 04:10:11.240 --> 04:10:16.140 very hard I understand that you're going to put the traffic light at the loop and 04:10:16.140 --> 04:10:21.120 that's great and a center turn lane but I really think we need a traffic light 04:10:21.120 --> 04:10:25.360 to get cars in and out of this development and that may be what mr. 04:10:25.360 --> 04:10:31.320 Allison said I'm not sure but I would say that that has to be done before the 04:10:31.320 --> 04:10:36.240 development starts I think we need to make those improvements whether it's 04:10:36.240 --> 04:10:41.320 road widening center lane traffic light before you start the development and I 04:10:41.320 --> 04:10:46.660 know Andrew you told me that was happening over on Bonnie Bray the 04:10:46.660 --> 04:10:52.080 traffic study I saw by the city it's going to be an increase of 60% on that 04:10:52.080 --> 04:10:57.640 road so if you could get that done before the development starts I'm also 04:10:57.640 --> 04:11:01.680 very concerned about the character of the development that you're abandoning 04:11:01.680 --> 04:11:09.120 our 2030 plan I don't understand why we have to have this high density in a rural 04:11:09.120 --> 04:11:14.840 area why could we not make a compromise and make some of the lot sizes a little 04:11:14.840 --> 04:11:21.040 larger even 60-foot lots would make a difference and have some open areas and 04:11:21.040 --> 04:11:25.680 some green areas some walking trails something that ties it back to the land 04:11:25.680 --> 04:11:33.400 that's around it our our 2030 plan encourages that and I see us getting 04:11:33.400 --> 04:11:40.320 totally away from that 70% of the houses are 50 foot wide postage stamp lots with 04:11:40.320 --> 04:11:46.000 their 12 feet from wall to wall to the next house this is not consistent with 04:11:46.000 --> 04:11:52.240 our neighborhood or with our 2030 plan so in closing I would really ask you to 04:11:52.240 --> 04:11:57.080 consider where we're going give us our infrastructure before the development 04:11:57.080 --> 04:12:04.440 starts consider larger lot sizes more green space more open space and remember 04:12:04.440 --> 04:12:08.520 that when the development is finished the developers and builders get to leave 04:12:08.520 --> 04:12:14.280 we the people that live there are left with what they've created so let's try to 04:12:14.280 --> 04:12:20.760 make it better you're by this vote determining the future of Denton so I 04:12:20.760 --> 04:12:25.200 really hope you'll consider how you do it because we're all depending on you to 04:12:25.200 --> 04:12:28.680 do that thank you 04:12:36.000 --> 04:13:02.280 thank you mr. Smith the next card I have is mr. Richard Wells thank you no yes 04:13:02.280 --> 04:13:04.920 that's the one thank you very much and if you just state your name and address 04:13:04.920 --> 04:13:09.960 yes Richard Wells I live at 3830 Washington it's an Aubrey address it's 04:13:09.960 --> 04:13:15.720 about four miles north of the loop okay so pretty much part of Denton the 2030 04:13:15.720 --> 04:13:19.360 plan has been let me start by saying I take a more holistic view and I'm kind 04:13:19.360 --> 04:13:23.160 of thinking as far out as I can most of what I've heard today is like next year 04:13:23.160 --> 04:13:27.000 the year after a little bit so some of what I would talk about is is further in 04:13:27.000 --> 04:13:32.400 the future and the 2030 plan says the single most important component of the 04:13:32.400 --> 04:13:36.840 land used element is the future land use map and it serves as a guide for making 04:13:36.840 --> 04:13:41.040 development of rezoning decisions and I don't think the decision to go ahead 04:13:41.040 --> 04:13:46.640 with this is quite in keeping with the 2030 plan it also states in part revise 04:13:46.640 --> 04:13:50.480 zoning districts and procedures for rezoning decisions to require 04:13:50.480 --> 04:13:56.960 consistency with the future land use plan to guide all future development as 04:13:56.960 --> 04:14:01.120 an extension of preferred growth concept so I don't believe that it fits 04:14:01.120 --> 04:14:06.740 that also I do want to talk about transportation because 23 I think you 04:14:06.740 --> 04:14:12.480 said of the letters were concerned with transportation the Denton County 04:14:12.480 --> 04:14:15.920 thoroughfare plan which is partially based on information from tech start 04:14:15.920 --> 04:14:22.520 and the Nash the Council of Governments was adopted in April 18 2017 says that 04:14:22.520 --> 04:14:29.060 2014 study shows that peak traffic in the morning on FM 428 from loop 288 to 04:14:29.060 --> 04:14:37.120 FM 2153 is now at level of service F which means that traffic congestion for 04:14:37.120 --> 04:14:40.680 that roadway is high and the travelers now experience severe delays and travel 04:14:40.680 --> 04:14:49.920 time that's 2014 so that means between loop 288 and 2153 also the study Denton 04:14:49.920 --> 04:14:53.800 County thoroughfare plan recommends completion of the outer loop which if 04:14:53.800 --> 04:14:57.720 you'll look at the top of this up here I think I can point it out to you I'm not 04:14:57.720 --> 04:15:04.000 okay well I'm not sure how to do anyhow that loop is the S you all probably know 04:15:04.000 --> 04:15:07.680 this and this is where I'm kind of thinking about the future one of the 04:15:07.680 --> 04:15:13.160 recommendations is 2035 one is 2040 that will be completed it's a great case 04:15:13.160 --> 04:15:17.600 study if you want to look it up on online it recommends anything from six 04:15:17.600 --> 04:15:26.320 lanes to 16 lanes it comes in at 2153 it goes through all becomes in 2153 it goes 04:15:26.320 --> 04:15:33.200 along Shepherd Road it goes bisects goes along Shepherd Road it goes across the 04:15:33.200 --> 04:15:38.040 green belt and then it goes out mile I'm to catch I 35 in that study the 04:15:38.040 --> 04:15:44.680 Council of Governments is accepted it says that 20 that FM 428 will then have 04:15:44.680 --> 04:15:50.880 to be six lane feeder road from 288 out to this five miles out to the city so 04:15:50.880 --> 04:15:56.360 thinking of the future we got a real traffic problem here also the Denton a 04:15:56.360 --> 04:16:02.440 study says that this is an important bicycle to think about bicycles and 04:16:02.440 --> 04:16:07.320 other forms of transportation in Denton the only Northeast artery for bicyclists 04:16:07.320 --> 04:16:10.920 is 428 I'm not a bicyclist but I see them out there all the time and I think 04:16:10.920 --> 04:16:15.160 this construction is going to be a problem with that too I think that the 04:16:15.160 --> 04:16:22.320 the the staff study and the what came from the developers is nice on the 04:16:22.320 --> 04:16:26.760 figures on how many students will be going to the schools but with that RD 04:16:26.760 --> 04:16:31.080 six zone down there you can probably double it or triple it it also talks 04:16:31.080 --> 04:16:35.720 about traffic you can also probably double that or triple it outside the 04:16:35.720 --> 04:16:43.240 loop a study that Aubrey did said that a normal two-lane road that's not divided 04:16:43.240 --> 04:16:52.560 can handle about 12,000 trips per day we're already way above that so so 428 04:16:52.560 --> 04:16:59.200 cannot handle this that's that's the bottom line on that I'm surprised that 04:16:59.200 --> 04:17:05.160 we're going the city staff talks about a buffer zone well in our four is not a 04:17:05.160 --> 04:17:11.560 buffer zone in our one it might be a buffer zone but to go directly from RD 04:17:11.560 --> 04:17:20.080 five one house per five acres to four houses per acre is a lot different than 04:17:20.080 --> 04:17:23.680 in our one would be thank you 04:17:23.680 --> 04:17:37.880 thank you mr. Wells next we have Gretchen is it a cock for you to state your name 04:17:37.880 --> 04:17:46.360 and address for the record I'm Gretchen I cock and my address is 7617 FM 428 I 04:17:46.360 --> 04:17:53.440 live directly across the street from and I like to say I agree with everything 04:17:53.440 --> 04:17:57.760 she said and the gentleman before me I'm sorry I'm not as prepared and eloquent 04:17:57.760 --> 04:18:03.640 but this is kind of blindsided me I didn't get a notification in the mail 04:18:03.640 --> 04:18:11.420 until about a week ago and I'm a horse trainer I run an equestrian facility so 04:18:11.420 --> 04:18:18.240 agriculture is my way of life and to have that many homes directly across the 04:18:18.240 --> 04:18:29.640 street from me doesn't fit with my dream or picture of my neighborhood that's all 04:18:34.320 --> 04:18:42.520 thank you very much next card we have is Katherine Adams Huff Huff Hutt have you 04:18:42.520 --> 04:18:45.680 to state your name and address the record thank you commissioners thank you 04:18:45.680 --> 04:18:49.400 for the opportunity to speak my name is Katherine Adams Hutt I live at four or 04:18:49.400 --> 04:18:54.360 five six eight elm bottom circle in Aubrey and I want to speak to oppose this 04:18:54.360 --> 04:18:58.360 proposed a change from rural residential to neighborhood residential planning 04:18:58.360 --> 04:19:04.520 going with 92 acre lot 368 houses we've heard this ad nauseam today it's a very 04:19:04.520 --> 04:19:09.760 extensive density obviously we talked about the traffic issues but I urge you 04:19:09.760 --> 04:19:15.280 also not knowing about the Denton plan for 2030 before tonight I admit now that 04:19:15.280 --> 04:19:18.080 you've heard I've heard about it I cannot believe that this is considered 04:19:18.080 --> 04:19:23.480 consistent with that plan this is an agricultural land the plan was for pace 04:19:23.480 --> 04:19:28.000 development this is not pace development it's immense development to say this is 04:19:28.000 --> 04:19:33.000 consistent with the Denton 2030 plan is to suggest that President Trump's style 04:19:33.000 --> 04:19:37.200 being a president is a lot like every other traditional president style it's 04:19:37.200 --> 04:19:43.440 just not true not being judgmental it's just not true I also urge you to think 04:19:43.440 --> 04:19:48.160 about the adverse impact on the intent of this intense suburban development on 04:19:48.160 --> 04:19:54.160 the world nature of this of this area surrounding Aubrey where I live Aubrey 04:19:54.160 --> 04:20:00.000 calls ourselves the horse capital of the world or at least of the country to be 04:20:00.000 --> 04:20:03.440 the horse capital of the country we need horses we need an agricultural 04:20:03.440 --> 04:20:08.560 environment that supports horses and cattle being part of Denton this is part 04:20:08.560 --> 04:20:12.520 of what people look at Denton to be it's rural it's agricultural it's respected 04:20:12.520 --> 04:20:16.400 it's admired this would not be consistent with that approach either I 04:20:16.400 --> 04:20:21.040 breed and raise cutting horses and thoroughbred race horses I love my 04:20:21.040 --> 04:20:25.480 drives through Lexington Kentucky because they're beautiful with pastoral scenes 04:20:25.480 --> 04:20:31.080 nice fences horses and pastures large pastures nice homes modest homes large 04:20:31.080 --> 04:20:36.880 homes even but certainly what we're planning to do in Aubrey and Denton and 04:20:36.880 --> 04:20:42.480 North Denton is to turn Lexington into Plano we're turning Denton into Plano 04:20:42.480 --> 04:20:46.880 and I don't believe that we want to do that I also will tell you that my 04:20:46.880 --> 04:20:51.920 property is in largely a floodplain and a floodway many of the boundaries that I 04:20:51.920 --> 04:20:56.040 see on this slide above me are going right through floodplains and floodways 04:20:56.040 --> 04:20:59.520 those are going to be expensive to build and I can tell you my land is still 04:20:59.520 --> 04:21:03.880 underwater from the floodway released from Ray Roberts to Lewisville today and 04:21:03.880 --> 04:21:08.280 three years ago four years ago I was evacuated by the National Guard this is 04:21:08.280 --> 04:21:13.240 a flooded area we can talk about green belt but when it's flooded it is not 04:21:13.240 --> 04:21:17.280 passable so this is the area you're talking about I I know you know this 04:21:17.280 --> 04:21:21.880 area but I urge you again to walk this area with us as we do every day we love 04:21:21.880 --> 04:21:25.440 this area we love our land we love Denton and thank you very much for your 04:21:25.440 --> 04:21:27.520 time 04:21:27.520 --> 04:21:37.280 I only have one more card here for speaker so if anyone else is wanting to 04:21:37.280 --> 04:21:41.680 speak we'd be happy to hear hear you if you if you would we just ask you to fill 04:21:41.680 --> 04:21:48.560 it off a card or come down after Tina harborson harborson 04:21:48.560 --> 04:21:59.360 I live at six six seven zero Green Valley Circle just north of the Clear 04:21:59.360 --> 04:22:04.840 Creek area and I have a problem with this for the transportation problem first 04:22:04.840 --> 04:22:12.640 and foremost I had a daughter who got her car totaled on the loop and 428 and 04:22:12.640 --> 04:22:17.800 she still has she still cannot drive that area because of that plus all these 04:22:17.800 --> 04:22:21.080 people that have the horses with the horse trailers out there that are 04:22:21.080 --> 04:22:27.520 carrying a lot of weight and you have to people are going 60 70 miles an hour out 04:22:27.520 --> 04:22:31.440 there and you have to come to a stop so they can turn to go to their property or 04:22:31.440 --> 04:22:36.920 continue on and a lot of these people do not stop and they will rear end you you 04:22:36.920 --> 04:22:43.160 need to go look at all the accidents that have been done on that road it is 04:22:43.160 --> 04:22:48.080 um it's gotten to the point where I actually go out of my way and take 21 64 04:22:48.080 --> 04:22:52.960 so I do not have to deal with 428 and that is my biggest deal and thank you 04:22:52.960 --> 04:22:55.120 very much 04:23:01.440 --> 04:23:07.680 is everyone wishing to speak yeah come on if you just state your name and 04:23:07.680 --> 04:23:22.920 address I'm Grant Icock 7617 FM 428 Denton Texas our property is across the 04:23:22.920 --> 04:23:30.120 street basically from the top part of the red so just to the west and like 04:23:30.120 --> 04:23:37.160 the lady before me just said we would we would need a turn lane for one house 04:23:37.160 --> 04:23:43.280 because we do pull trailers in and out people and there's actually a guardrail 04:23:43.280 --> 04:23:49.000 on the what would that be the east side and people will pass across the solid 04:23:49.000 --> 04:23:55.120 white line in between the guardrail and a horse trailer already so yeah that's 04:23:55.120 --> 04:24:01.240 oh and actually last year we had a car crash into our pipe fence the guy almost 04:24:01.240 --> 04:24:06.760 died the car went in flames and everything it was 2 in the morning I was 04:24:06.760 --> 04:24:12.200 just over a year ago so anyway again the road definitely needs infrastructure 04:24:12.200 --> 04:24:16.240 first thank you thank you 04:24:20.120 --> 04:24:25.480 this is a public hearing be happy and welcome any feedback you might have 04:24:25.480 --> 04:24:30.440 please just come forward and state your name and address if you do speak we ask 04:24:30.440 --> 04:24:34.480 you to fill out a card just for our records my name is Vicki McGovern I live 04:24:34.480 --> 04:24:39.400 at 3110 Hartley Field Road and that little slide that was just up there I'm 04:24:39.400 --> 04:24:46.300 just down that line from yeah see that little line that very first line we live 04:24:46.300 --> 04:24:51.400 at the end of that road we're new to Denton County actually we've downsized a 04:24:51.400 --> 04:24:56.040 move to Denton from Valley View we had a 60 acre ranch right off outside of the 04:24:56.040 --> 04:24:59.720 Lake Ray Roberts area and I was very involved with the planning and zoning 04:24:59.720 --> 04:25:03.760 committee there because we did the very same thing we created a comprehensive 04:25:03.760 --> 04:25:09.000 plan that allowed for gradual growth in that area and and the proposal on the 04:25:09.000 --> 04:25:16.360 table was five acres to one acre down into more highly dense properties right 04:25:16.360 --> 04:25:20.640 now as we come out of Hartley Field Road I can tell you that it is extremely 04:25:20.640 --> 04:25:27.040 dangerous just to turn left on to 428 because you just come up over the the 04:25:27.040 --> 04:25:31.880 ramp there by the water park so you can barely see the traffic and some people 04:25:31.880 --> 04:25:36.080 come flying over there so without a doubt the traffic and impact is going to 04:25:36.080 --> 04:25:41.120 be great especially with that high density housing and then just to hear 04:25:41.120 --> 04:25:46.240 that another high density area was planned just sort of down and across from 04:25:46.240 --> 04:25:50.380 that right near that water park so I think the infrastructure is going to be 04:25:50.380 --> 04:25:55.560 extremely important and I would like to highly urge the committee here to 04:25:55.560 --> 04:26:01.400 consider a less dense as we start to develop north as we start to grow our 04:26:01.400 --> 04:26:04.980 properties our property actually is seven acres and a lot of the other 04:26:04.980 --> 04:26:09.240 properties right in that neighborhood are also five and seven acres as well so 04:26:09.240 --> 04:26:13.040 thank you very much 04:26:13.040 --> 04:26:28.720 is there anything else I wanted to speak on this item so we individuals have one 04:26:28.720 --> 04:26:33.760 opportunity to speak so if it comes up we might be able to call on you but right 04:26:33.760 --> 04:26:40.960 now it's one per individual seeing no other individuals want to speak I'll 04:26:40.960 --> 04:26:45.200 close the public hearing and now we'll turn it to the dais for any questions 04:26:45.200 --> 04:26:49.320 you might have staff with the applicant we want to address those or open up for 04:26:49.320 --> 04:26:56.920 discussion amongst us on the item commissioner Beck thank you chair I want 04:26:56.920 --> 04:27:00.440 to thank everybody for coming out tonight taking time and speaking 04:27:00.440 --> 04:27:04.360 especially the people that are going to be affected by this area you were all 04:27:04.360 --> 04:27:10.840 very well informed and very articulate so we appreciate that zone change 04:27:10.840 --> 04:27:13.400 requests are probably one of the toughest things we as a commission deal 04:27:13.400 --> 04:27:18.360 with and I appreciate Sharon Kramer's comments recognizing the difficulty we 04:27:18.360 --> 04:27:22.000 have doing this sometimes especially in an area where we got higher density 04:27:22.000 --> 04:27:26.240 developments moving in close to existing homes of lesser density so I'm gonna 04:27:26.240 --> 04:27:29.680 kind of read from my notes here if the chair will allow and I'm gonna you're 04:27:29.680 --> 04:27:33.360 gonna hear me say some things that y'all have already mentioned so pardon my 04:27:33.360 --> 04:27:38.280 redundancy the common concerns are legitimate ones were increased traffic 04:27:38.280 --> 04:27:44.080 noise and the potential for increased crime proposed worries for existing 04:27:44.080 --> 04:27:48.640 homeowners yet everyone understands that we have to grow just not in ways that 04:27:48.640 --> 04:27:53.080 impacts their neighborhood we're seeing developers going out of their way to 04:27:53.080 --> 04:27:58.320 ease these concerns for those that they build around but invariably they'll 04:27:58.320 --> 04:28:01.720 always be those who simply don't feel that they go far enough and I understand 04:28:01.720 --> 04:28:05.280 that in this case we're being asked to change zoning that will allow the 04:28:05.280 --> 04:28:09.520 development of four houses to an acre adjacent to properties that may have no 04:28:09.520 --> 04:28:14.480 more than one home to several acres the rural atmosphere of this region region 04:28:14.480 --> 04:28:18.680 does face a threat to it with higher density development but as the city 04:28:18.680 --> 04:28:23.040 grows this area is in the sights of developers and city planners to address 04:28:23.040 --> 04:28:29.600 housing needs where fewer infill areas exist within the city proper there of 04:28:29.600 --> 04:28:33.720 course will always be traffic increases with any new development in the ability 04:28:33.720 --> 04:28:38.560 of roads and other infrastructure to handle this influx is critical often 04:28:38.560 --> 04:28:43.240 however it requires new development to demonstrate a need for improved traffic 04:28:43.240 --> 04:28:48.080 conditions especially when we're dealing with state highway like we are with FM 04:28:48.080 --> 04:28:53.040 428 these improvements on this road have to be approved by text that city of 04:28:53.040 --> 04:28:57.440 Denton doesn't control that and we all know that that process seldom moves at 04:28:57.440 --> 04:29:02.680 the speed needed to meet new development noise and increased time will also be a 04:29:02.680 --> 04:29:06.440 factor with any type of growth and to single it out in some cases over others 04:29:06.440 --> 04:29:10.680 is often baseless rather than block any new development to avoid this the city 04:29:10.680 --> 04:29:14.160 will have to meet the demands of this kind of growth by enlarging our police 04:29:14.160 --> 04:29:19.360 force and fire departments and using practices that reduce noise during and 04:29:19.360 --> 04:29:25.040 even after development normally I have no problem improving zone change requests 04:29:25.040 --> 04:29:29.240 to allow these types of developments because it does fit a need for this area 04:29:29.240 --> 04:29:33.000 in the future and will serve as a transition to a lower density area 04:29:33.000 --> 04:29:37.600 surrounding it to what eventually could become more dense with commercial 04:29:37.600 --> 04:29:42.480 development and even some multifamily dwellings the rewrite of the dent 04:29:42.480 --> 04:29:45.600 development code I think was touched on briefly here and I sit on that sub 04:29:45.600 --> 04:29:51.280 committee is scheduled to be released later this year they're looking at this 04:29:51.280 --> 04:29:56.640 strip of Sherman Drive north of loop 288 as what we call a suburban corridor it's 04:29:56.640 --> 04:30:02.400 a new zoning designation that will have a mixed use for the land that includes 04:30:02.400 --> 04:30:05.720 the type of development that we're currently seeing along the University 04:30:05.720 --> 04:30:10.320 Drive in teething lane in South Denton development that would actually I think 04:30:10.320 --> 04:30:13.920 serve the residents in this area where you don't have to drive four or five 04:30:13.920 --> 04:30:19.840 miles to go get a gallon of milk having said all this however I am reluctant at 04:30:19.840 --> 04:30:24.960 this time to prove this zone change request for three reasons the housing 04:30:24.960 --> 04:30:29.220 market has slowed tremendously over the last six months and the demand for new 04:30:29.220 --> 04:30:33.600 housing is lacking we have currently approved the NR6 zoning on the west 04:30:33.600 --> 04:30:38.040 side of Sherman Drive that will out six houses to an acre depending on how they 04:30:38.040 --> 04:30:42.960 are priced will determine how fast they sell I've been informed by some realtors 04:30:42.960 --> 04:30:47.280 that suggest unless new housing is priced under $300,000 the demand for 04:30:47.280 --> 04:30:52.520 housing will remain low or even stagnant the bigger homes in an NR for district 04:30:52.520 --> 04:30:58.600 are likely to exceed that 300,000 price range secondly the large existing lots 04:30:58.600 --> 04:31:03.080 that currently occupy the east side of Sherman Drive really can accommodate a 04:31:03.080 --> 04:31:07.780 zone change request that puts four houses on one acre we do need to 04:31:07.780 --> 04:31:11.600 sustain this area for the larger lots and provide a sense of country now and 04:31:11.600 --> 04:31:15.360 in the future in my opinion any further housing development this area should 04:31:15.360 --> 04:31:18.720 stay on the west side of Sherman Drive creating neighborhoods that will blend 04:31:18.720 --> 04:31:21.680 in with the existing Beaver Creek addition that's to the west of there and 04:31:21.680 --> 04:31:25.720 ultimately find their way over to the North Locust Road there we can better 04:31:25.720 --> 04:31:29.360 accommodate the roads needed to handle the additional traffic this development 04:31:29.360 --> 04:31:33.720 brings in with it because we don't have to deal with textile and lastly we need 04:31:33.720 --> 04:31:37.440 to do everything we can to widen streets and roads that will be expected to 04:31:37.440 --> 04:31:43.040 handle new to develop before that development begins we too often put the 04:31:43.040 --> 04:31:46.560 cart before the horse and staff has heard me say this in numerous times and 04:31:46.560 --> 04:31:49.800 in so doing it creates adverse driving conditions for existing and new 04:31:49.800 --> 04:31:54.320 homeowners FM 428 is on the drawing board to be expanded to handle the 04:31:54.320 --> 04:31:58.080 future growth the city sees for this area it makes sense to wait until 04:31:58.080 --> 04:32:02.440 textile is willing to at least set a date for construction before we starting 04:32:02.440 --> 04:32:05.840 further development here and put people's worries about traffic volumes at 04:32:05.840 --> 04:32:10.340 these I understand the traffic signal that's going to be put at loop 288 and 04:32:10.340 --> 04:32:14.560 Sherman Drive but the volume of traffic that will be generated with new housing 04:32:14.560 --> 04:32:19.320 subdivisions of this size will still have to contend with the Tulane Road so 04:32:19.320 --> 04:32:22.160 at this time I cannot approve and I'm going to recommend denial of this 04:32:22.160 --> 04:32:26.880 sudden change request but I have no problem in the future with building one 04:32:26.880 --> 04:32:32.880 or two houses per acre on it thank you thank you mr. Beck I want to be okay 04:32:32.880 --> 04:32:38.400 clear are you moving for denial you putting a motion in okay with the 04:32:38.400 --> 04:32:45.040 motion on the floor do we have a second kisser Cole I second motion for denial 04:32:45.040 --> 04:32:49.040 okay any discussion on the item Commissioner 04:32:49.040 --> 04:33:04.160 Pernetta is there any other discussion on this item kisser Alice thank you 04:33:04.160 --> 04:33:10.840 chair I guess just a couple of thoughts clearly growth is coming to the area and 04:33:10.840 --> 04:33:18.280 our plan does need to be re-looked at it's five years old now and and in that 04:33:18.280 --> 04:33:23.440 area is changing and development is happening and will happen I do have an 04:33:23.440 --> 04:33:27.760 issue with density on this side of 428 basically because of what's already 04:33:27.760 --> 04:33:33.800 developed there in the Hartley field area I understand the development that 04:33:33.800 --> 04:33:37.720 we've we've done on the west side and I agree with Commissioner Beck that the 04:33:37.720 --> 04:33:45.800 higher density belongs on that side I'm not so sure right now it belongs on on 04:33:45.800 --> 04:33:50.640 the requested side that we're discussing tonight those are my thoughts at the 04:33:50.640 --> 04:34:00.040 moment Christian Sanchez I know we've talked about the 2030 plan and as it was 04:34:00.040 --> 04:34:06.000 mentioned it was done five years ago but things have changed change things are 04:34:06.000 --> 04:34:12.640 changing rapidly I think especially with the economic situation that we have 04:34:12.640 --> 04:34:20.680 today that and and then is really growing fast I have I guess my issue is 04:34:20.680 --> 04:34:26.920 we don't have really control of you know they write they do a 2030 plan but who 04:34:26.920 --> 04:34:32.080 really runs that and I think developers go out there and look for areas where 04:34:32.080 --> 04:34:36.960 you know there's some infrastructure without development there's no 04:34:36.960 --> 04:34:44.080 infrastructure the developers are the ones that create that so if anything 04:34:44.080 --> 04:34:47.840 ever is going to develop on the south side you're going to have to have some 04:34:47.840 --> 04:34:53.240 development and I kind of look at the area I drive up there for 28 because I 04:34:53.240 --> 04:34:58.480 go through Aubrey pilot point constantly almost on a weekly basis every other day 04:34:58.480 --> 04:35:07.760 but we talk about having bigger lots seven eight acres well if you're going to 04:35:07.760 --> 04:35:14.980 put 368 acres I mean homes you're going to take up a lot more land than what's 04:35:14.980 --> 04:35:20.560 being required I think for what's being asked for to develop 368 acres on 98 04:35:20.560 --> 04:35:27.440 acres as opposed to expanding that so I have a real problem I see urban 04:35:27.440 --> 04:35:32.400 development all over and we see it here in Denton and it scares me because where 04:35:32.400 --> 04:35:36.800 all these people coming from that's what I wonder I also see all these large 04:35:36.800 --> 04:35:43.800 apartment complexes and that's scary too but we have to house people moving into 04:35:43.800 --> 04:35:47.960 Denton if Denton wants to grow if we don't want to grow then we're gonna have 04:35:47.960 --> 04:35:51.440 to they're gonna they're gonna develop further out from Denton but they're 04:35:51.440 --> 04:35:59.240 gonna develop and we see that on 380 several years ago I used to drive that 04:35:59.240 --> 04:36:06.520 on a regular basis also because I didn't go up to bottom and when it was a 04:36:06.520 --> 04:36:11.360 two-lane road and when it became all of a sudden you started developing and and 04:36:11.360 --> 04:36:16.040 the houses came first and then the road came second and that's how it happens 04:36:16.040 --> 04:36:20.240 even here in Denton we have people complaining all the time hey you're 04:36:20.240 --> 04:36:26.240 putting houses and there's no roads so my concern is we always put the cart 04:36:26.240 --> 04:36:32.000 before the horse but is that the nature of the beast until until we all get 04:36:32.000 --> 04:36:39.040 together and change that it's going to continue so I don't know if I have a 04:36:39.040 --> 04:36:45.320 concern that if we don't start if we don't develop anything if we don't spend 04:36:45.320 --> 04:36:50.880 time and start developing these areas the infrastructure is not going to just 04:36:50.880 --> 04:36:58.000 happen by itself so I'm leaning towards voting for for the for the for the 04:36:58.000 --> 04:37:04.840 motion Krister back thank you chair I just wanted to remind everybody to 04:37:04.840 --> 04:37:08.040 regardless of the outcome of the vote tonight if the denial holds up or it 04:37:08.040 --> 04:37:11.840 gets approved this still moves on to the City Council this isn't the final spot 04:37:11.840 --> 04:37:15.280 here so if it doesn't come out to your liking that's where they're gonna make 04:37:15.280 --> 04:37:20.320 a decision so you'll need to come back and force if that's the case so I just 04:37:20.320 --> 04:37:26.760 wanted to be sure y'all were there where they thank you Commissioner Pernitta 04:37:26.760 --> 04:37:32.640 just kind of just a few things out here I want to thank everybody for coming out 04:37:32.640 --> 04:37:40.040 usually when we hear discussion of safety and everything there's euphemisms 04:37:40.040 --> 04:37:47.320 involved and then we know that they're talking about other things I know y'all's 04:37:47.320 --> 04:37:51.920 area pretty well I like to hop on my Harley and ride out to our Aubrey and 04:37:51.920 --> 04:37:55.720 sometimes kind of cut off on those little country roads so I can see the 04:37:55.720 --> 04:38:00.920 horses around there I also know what the traffic's like on there because being on 04:38:00.920 --> 04:38:07.160 a motorcycle you don't get a lot of respect from people driving along that 04:38:07.160 --> 04:38:12.880 way so I know how I know how dangerous it is I think in the in the work session 04:38:12.880 --> 04:38:17.960 one of the things that I had a concern about was the traffic impact because I 04:38:17.960 --> 04:38:23.440 think they said something is something about 3,400 trips a day and there's a 04:38:23.440 --> 04:38:28.600 lot that that impacts it's not just around you guys because you know those 04:38:28.600 --> 04:38:32.840 number of trips a day mean that people are gonna have to go shopping and right 04:38:32.840 --> 04:38:36.080 now that means that they're gonna have to go all the way down to Sherman to 04:38:36.080 --> 04:38:42.680 Kroger on you know on University which means that it impacts traffic well into 04:38:42.680 --> 04:38:53.560 Denton I don't know that I agree with the NR4 where it is I think right now if 04:38:53.560 --> 04:38:57.200 we're gonna do put anything out there I would prefer to see mixed usage so that 04:38:57.200 --> 04:39:03.800 way we could have an infrastructure for people to you know to to come out we do 04:39:03.800 --> 04:39:09.620 know that it's going to be growing there is growth inevitably coming if we were 04:39:09.620 --> 04:39:15.560 to approve this today we would probably see it not until like 2022 so it'd be 04:39:15.560 --> 04:39:19.800 like three or four years down the road and at that point you know I'm not sure 04:39:19.800 --> 04:39:25.680 what's going to happen we know the density is coming I don't know that I'm 04:39:25.680 --> 04:39:29.800 comfortable with that density in that spot when there's some other places 04:39:29.800 --> 04:39:36.840 where it'd be better equipped to handle traffic and people still up in the air 04:39:36.840 --> 04:39:39.360 on how I'm gonna vote on this but I want to thank everybody for coming out and 04:39:39.360 --> 04:39:47.320 giving us your time and your voice. Commissioner Smith. Well I don't I don't 04:39:47.320 --> 04:39:52.840 agree with the the density on this project I believe that that as you as you 04:39:52.840 --> 04:39:56.960 do add more and more folks this corridor does gonna create a lot of issues and I 04:39:56.960 --> 04:40:03.680 would rather see a project that is closer to like a country lakes the 04:40:03.680 --> 04:40:09.080 country lakes division that's out in Argyle or like something that's like 04:40:09.080 --> 04:40:16.880 Lakeview Ranch out on 380 that's a little bit a little bit less dense you 04:40:16.880 --> 04:40:19.800 know then you get into conversations about what's economically feasible with 04:40:19.800 --> 04:40:26.360 construction costs and the and the limited space it's allowed but I won't 04:40:26.360 --> 04:40:31.480 be able to vote for an approval to deny on this project because I think as 04:40:31.480 --> 04:40:35.840 Commissioner Sanchez has already mentioned that and I full 100% agree 04:40:35.840 --> 04:40:42.080 with is that sadly enough in this day and the way that development works in 04:40:42.080 --> 04:40:48.240 the city the cart does lead the horse that if there are issues with Hartley 04:40:48.240 --> 04:40:51.500 Field and getting a stoplight out there or having expansion on your blacktop 04:40:51.500 --> 04:40:55.800 road or getting getting safety I have clients live out there in Hartley Field 04:40:55.800 --> 04:41:00.280 Road I have to leave at you know 8 p.m. in the dark and try to turn left to get 04:41:00.280 --> 04:41:05.840 on 428 to go to my house down in Oakmont I know it's like it's a scary turn and 04:41:05.840 --> 04:41:11.040 that that development that change isn't gonna happen unless there's a real 04:41:11.040 --> 04:41:16.480 economic reason for the city to go out there and build it and so while I did 04:41:16.480 --> 04:41:20.380 not make a motion to approve because I was waiting to kind of feel out and see 04:41:20.380 --> 04:41:23.920 what everyone else is gonna do before I said something I am gonna say that I will 04:41:23.920 --> 04:41:30.200 not vote for a for a denial of this project but thank you commissioners 04:41:30.200 --> 04:41:35.480 before we call us to the vote I was gonna say summary with my thoughts I 04:41:35.480 --> 04:41:39.520 have a lot of chicken scratch notes here that hopefully I can get through in a 04:41:39.520 --> 04:41:43.720 cohesive manner about the way I'm currently thinking about this project 04:41:43.720 --> 04:41:48.680 the first is to say I don't live in the area but I am sometimes a cyclist and so 04:41:48.680 --> 04:41:52.160 parking at an auditorium and going to mom's cafe and Aubrey through Elm 04:41:52.160 --> 04:41:57.200 bottom and is not rare and so I understand the roads and the narrowness 04:41:57.200 --> 04:42:00.720 of some of those roads and the beauty of some of those streets once you get back 04:42:00.720 --> 04:42:08.280 into some of the ones off the beaten path like wildcat and stuff so with that 04:42:08.280 --> 04:42:13.600 as a commission I often like the opportunities when we get to plan a lot 04:42:13.600 --> 04:42:16.880 of times we do zoning and on the plan zoning Commission we don't do a lot of 04:42:16.880 --> 04:42:21.960 planning we get to hear cases and we get to rezone and plat I think tonight is an 04:42:21.960 --> 04:42:25.320 opportunity where we as a commission get to plan that we get to either reinforce 04:42:25.320 --> 04:42:30.760 what the city has said five years ago or seemingly kind of changed direction of 04:42:30.760 --> 04:42:35.880 the development of that land going forward and and though whatever's 04:42:35.880 --> 04:42:39.600 decided here I don't think we can save the horses in Aubrey or all the horses 04:42:39.600 --> 04:42:44.000 there's gonna be development out there I just question if and in our for 04:42:44.000 --> 04:42:50.120 development is actually smart planning for the area and so and I think it's 04:42:50.120 --> 04:42:55.160 twofold is it smart planning for the residents understand the future of what 04:42:55.160 --> 04:42:59.160 their land holds because as right now every piece that comes before us is 04:42:59.160 --> 04:43:04.640 going to be this one-off and the residents won't know what what conditions 04:43:04.640 --> 04:43:07.840 or what we're looking at to meet that so how our residents and citizens have 04:43:07.840 --> 04:43:12.440 been to know exactly what would get approved or what we see the area doing 04:43:12.440 --> 04:43:16.440 in terms of development so I think there's some ambiguous there for the 04:43:16.440 --> 04:43:20.360 residents and there's ambiguousness right now for the developers to understand 04:43:20.360 --> 04:43:25.280 what projects the city wants to encourage and I don't think approving 04:43:25.280 --> 04:43:31.840 this solidifies or reduces any of that ambiguity to the way our city needs and 04:43:31.840 --> 04:43:38.040 and wants to grow I tend to agree with mr. Wells that although I guess the city 04:43:38.040 --> 04:43:43.720 views in our for as low density it doesn't seem like a buffer into horse 04:43:43.720 --> 04:43:48.880 country it seems like an aggressive step especially when you think of when I 04:43:48.880 --> 04:43:55.560 drive down I 35 W and you crest over and you see has lit and those houses I don't 04:43:55.560 --> 04:43:58.600 necessarily know if that's the best thing for North Denton but one of my 04:43:58.600 --> 04:44:04.480 biggest concerns I said in work session is right now that area that the city is 04:44:04.480 --> 04:44:08.560 just rooftops and I don't feel that sustainable good planning I don't know 04:44:08.560 --> 04:44:11.720 if the residents want a strip center McDonald's out there but I don't think 04:44:11.720 --> 04:44:17.360 smart growth doesn't include some sort of corner store or gas station or 04:44:17.360 --> 04:44:23.080 something and if we have houses being butted up to 428 it doesn't allow for 04:44:23.080 --> 04:44:27.680 any sort of smart growth their centers along the way it just forces a ton more 04:44:27.680 --> 04:44:32.000 traffic all the way down Sherman to University and so I just think there's 04:44:32.000 --> 04:44:39.720 ways to improve that so the things that I will say is I think tonight I would 04:44:39.720 --> 04:44:44.360 like to see and we can talk later about this from a commission standpoint what 04:44:44.360 --> 04:44:48.640 to do about the future land use map it's clearly not accurate I think there needs 04:44:48.640 --> 04:44:52.680 to be an update however there's people years ago that was set in these seats 04:44:52.680 --> 04:44:56.800 before us that decided that the plan was rural I wasn't in those 04:44:56.800 --> 04:45:01.120 conversations that's what they decided who am I to go back and say whatever was 04:45:01.120 --> 04:45:04.640 talked about decided I'm going to change there needs to be an entire new committee 04:45:04.640 --> 04:45:09.320 to re-update the future land use map that gives us better direction city staff 04:45:09.320 --> 04:45:13.240 analysis even said this doesn't meet the current future land use map so we used 04:45:13.240 --> 04:45:18.800 alternative criteria and so that's not a mark against the city it's more should 04:45:18.800 --> 04:45:23.360 be a precipice of updating some of the records and I hope to to see what kind 04:45:23.360 --> 04:45:26.560 of progress we can make and and considering like Commissioner Beck said 04:45:26.560 --> 04:45:30.720 we have some some things coming down the pike in terms of updates to that 04:45:30.720 --> 04:45:35.560 planning I'd rather wait five six months and have the development come back in 04:45:35.560 --> 04:45:40.720 terms of what the city has been updated to desire rather than using something 04:45:40.720 --> 04:45:46.720 that I feel is a little outdated so all that being said two things well three 04:45:46.720 --> 04:45:52.120 things one I don't know the record but 29 written responses from the city might 04:45:52.120 --> 04:45:57.120 be a record so I appreciate residents speaking up it helps frame the 04:45:57.120 --> 04:46:01.240 discussion I say it often y'all being here providing feedback phone calls 04:46:01.240 --> 04:46:05.320 whatever it is helps us understand the situation especially if we don't live 04:46:05.320 --> 04:46:09.780 there so I appreciate you responding and coming out I appreciate the city staff 04:46:09.780 --> 04:46:13.160 for looking through this and even the presentation looked like it took a long 04:46:13.160 --> 04:46:17.560 time to develop so I appreciate the work and moreover I don't know if another 04:46:17.560 --> 04:46:22.200 developer other than Allison engineering group could have presented a better 04:46:22.200 --> 04:46:26.800 case for the property and so certainly when he was presenting I thought man 04:46:26.800 --> 04:46:32.800 this looks like a really good project the presentation was was flawless and I 04:46:32.800 --> 04:46:37.280 know from previous work if a development was to be made for that team I think 04:46:37.280 --> 04:46:42.760 it'd be great tonight however I can't support the the motion so that's my 04:46:42.760 --> 04:46:47.680 piece I'll step off my soapbox and what I do is restate the motion because it's 04:46:47.680 --> 04:46:52.400 a little cumbersome to make sure we all understand how we're voting the motion 04:46:52.400 --> 04:46:57.200 on the table is to deny this request what that means like Commissioner Beck 04:46:57.200 --> 04:47:00.920 said is they can still proceed to council if they choose if they do I'd 04:47:00.920 --> 04:47:04.960 say show up back at council because council can override us with a super 04:47:04.960 --> 04:47:11.400 majority but the motion on the table is to to deny the request so a vote for yes 04:47:11.400 --> 04:47:18.200 is to decline a vote for no is to not decline is there any questions on how 04:47:18.200 --> 04:47:25.040 that is going to work okay with that let's vote on the board 04:47:30.920 --> 04:47:48.200 the motion to deny carries five to so at this time it's 845 on a call of recess 04:47:48.200 --> 04:47:51.520 for five minutes to clear the room of those who would like to leave we'll come 04:47:51.520 --> 04:47:59.080 back at 850 thank you for allowing that brief recess it is now nine o'clock will 04:47:59.080 --> 04:48:08.920 reconvene with our next public hearing item it is item 5b z 18 - 0 0 1 7 b I 04:48:08.920 --> 04:48:17.920 will open the public hearing and invite Haley for presentation good evening this 04:48:17.920 --> 04:48:25.040 is Casey 1817 for lakeside place the request before you is twofold it is for 04:48:25.040 --> 04:48:30.440 an initial zoning designation of nr4 on approximately 86 acres of land as well 04:48:30.440 --> 04:48:36.040 as a rezoning from nr2 to nr4 district on six acres so to look at that a 04:48:36.040 --> 04:48:39.640 little more closely you can see on the map on the left the hatched area is what 04:48:39.640 --> 04:48:43.840 is currently already 5x those 86 acres were recently annexed into the city a 04:48:43.840 --> 04:48:47.480 council approved that back in November and then the six acres that was 04:48:47.480 --> 04:48:50.360 referenced is this far northwestern corner of the property that's currently 04:48:50.360 --> 04:48:55.080 nr2 so you can see on the proposed zoning map that the nr4 would be 04:48:55.080 --> 04:48:58.440 generally consistent with other zonings in the area it's kind of a mixture of 04:48:58.440 --> 04:49:02.640 nr4 and nr3 at this point in time as well as on the other side of the railroad 04:49:02.640 --> 04:49:09.040 tracks some commercial zoning as well as residential so with a rezoning we have 04:49:09.040 --> 04:49:13.320 two primary criteria for approval the first being that the rezoning conformed 04:49:13.320 --> 04:49:17.000 to the future land use element of the Denton plan 2030 and the second being 04:49:17.000 --> 04:49:21.800 that the rezoning facilitate the adequate provision of infrastructure so 04:49:21.800 --> 04:49:26.000 looking at each of those in turn now the future land use map within our Denton 04:49:26.000 --> 04:49:30.360 plan 2030 designates this this area and all of the area shown in yellow here on 04:49:30.360 --> 04:49:35.040 the map as low residential as we've recently discussed low residential in 04:49:35.040 --> 04:49:38.580 our future land use plan is classified as anything between one and four dwelling 04:49:38.580 --> 04:49:43.200 units per acre so we have the zoning districts in our one in our two in our 04:49:43.200 --> 04:49:47.040 three and in our four that all fall within that so the requested in our four 04:49:47.040 --> 04:49:52.200 district is consistent with that future land use designation that second 04:49:52.200 --> 04:49:55.520 criteria we'll look at a little more closely so the first aspect that we 04:49:55.520 --> 04:49:59.960 looked at was water and sewer utilities it's maybe a little hard to see on your 04:49:59.960 --> 04:50:04.160 map here but there is a faint dotted blue line here and that is an existing 04:50:04.160 --> 04:50:08.100 newly installed water line that would be available to serve the site and then 04:50:08.100 --> 04:50:11.360 there are sewer lines subbed out at either end of Creekdale so we have one 04:50:11.360 --> 04:50:14.120 here on the northern side of the property as well as another one here 04:50:14.120 --> 04:50:19.840 that would be available to this site looking at transportation we'll look a 04:50:19.840 --> 04:50:22.920 little more closely here because there's a lot going on in this area the 04:50:22.920 --> 04:50:26.720 applicant did provide a traffic impact analysis for staff to review as part of 04:50:26.720 --> 04:50:31.360 this request some of the key findings of that were that a need for improvements 04:50:31.360 --> 04:50:35.040 on their frontage on Hickory Creek Road as well as the need for the extension of 04:50:35.040 --> 04:50:38.240 Creekdale to connect those two points at the northern and the western edge of the 04:50:38.240 --> 04:50:45.000 edges of the site the TI also included several other recommendations such as 04:50:45.000 --> 04:50:49.120 the relocation of the proposed alignment of Hickory Creek Road on our mobility 04:50:49.120 --> 04:50:53.320 plan so if you look at the map here this red dashed line is what the mobility 04:50:53.320 --> 04:50:57.120 plan several years ago envisioned being the logical alignment for Hickory Creek 04:50:57.120 --> 04:51:01.880 Road so through this traffic impact analysis it was assessed and discovered 04:51:01.880 --> 04:51:06.260 that that's probably not the most logical place for this road to go a more 04:51:06.260 --> 04:51:11.200 logical and likely alignment of the road will be a continuation straight through 04:51:11.200 --> 04:51:15.920 this area as it is now along the subject property and then somehow crossing the 04:51:15.920 --> 04:51:19.760 floodplain and connecting over here with brush Creek most likely that's all still 04:51:19.760 --> 04:51:24.040 highly tentative as Julie mentioned with the last case there the city's 04:51:24.040 --> 04:51:26.680 engineering department and planning department are trying to work together 04:51:26.680 --> 04:51:31.320 and do some be a little less myopic have some bigger picture studies of certain 04:51:31.320 --> 04:51:36.120 regions of the city so much like we did on Sherman Drive we're looking to kick 04:51:36.120 --> 04:51:41.320 off fairly soon a study for this Ryan Road Hickory Creek part of the city to 04:51:41.320 --> 04:51:44.080 look at some of these more regional scale of transportation improvements 04:51:44.080 --> 04:51:48.600 that are needed because as you all may know this this portion of the Hickory 04:51:48.600 --> 04:51:51.400 Creek Road is actually a county roads this would be a joint venture between 04:51:51.400 --> 04:51:55.880 Denton County and the city to try to realign this road in the future the city 04:51:55.880 --> 04:52:00.240 currently does have two CIP projects underway for Hickory Creek that are in 04:52:00.240 --> 04:52:05.320 their very early stages and that's to widen the existing road particularly the 04:52:05.320 --> 04:52:09.520 section from Teasley over to Riverdale which is here just east of the subject 04:52:09.520 --> 04:52:14.720 property to a four-lane divided roadway so another component of this TIA was the 04:52:14.720 --> 04:52:18.560 need for this project to coordinate with that city project and try to figure out 04:52:18.560 --> 04:52:23.360 how to to get that widening done through the subject property there is a little 04:52:23.360 --> 04:52:28.520 vacant gap you can see there between where the mouse would pop up for me it's 04:52:28.520 --> 04:52:31.160 not cooperating but between Riverdale and where the subject property would be 04:52:31.160 --> 04:52:34.760 there's a little gap there that would need to be addressed as part of that 04:52:34.760 --> 04:52:40.840 coordination the TIA will require some updates as this project moves forward 04:52:40.840 --> 04:52:44.440 however at this point in time that there wasn't a conceptual plan presented with 04:52:44.440 --> 04:52:48.800 it so until staff's able to look at the TIA in coordination with the actual lot 04:52:48.800 --> 04:52:52.840 layout and proposed street alignment we can't fine-tune a lot of those 04:52:52.840 --> 04:52:56.880 particular off-site improvements so that will be forthcoming as this moves into 04:52:56.880 --> 04:53:01.400 the preliminary plotting phase if the zoning is approved staff did contact 04:53:01.400 --> 04:53:06.080 Denton ISD and found that the schools in this region that this property would go 04:53:06.080 --> 04:53:09.080 to could easily accommodate the students that would be generated by this housing 04:53:09.080 --> 04:53:15.480 development so notifications were sent regarding this request to the 200 and 04:53:15.480 --> 04:53:19.520 500 foot buffers you can see on the map in red and blue we received two written 04:53:19.520 --> 04:53:23.040 responses that were provided to you one in your backup originally and one just 04:53:23.040 --> 04:53:26.480 before the work session today and those are shown in green on the map they were 04:53:26.480 --> 04:53:30.480 both favorable responses the required public hearing notification signs were 04:53:30.480 --> 04:53:35.880 posted on the property as well so staff is recommending approval of this request 04:53:35.880 --> 04:53:39.920 we found it to be compatible with the surrounding land-use pattern consistent 04:53:39.920 --> 04:53:42.320 with the goals and objectives of the Denton plan and that it meets the two 04:53:42.320 --> 04:53:46.480 criteria for approval as discussed and I'm happy to stand for any questions we 04:53:46.480 --> 04:53:51.240 do have one Commissioner Ellis thank you chair Haley just for clarification you 04:53:51.240 --> 04:53:56.600 said Riverdale a couple of times did you mean Creekdale or Creek I may have said 04:53:56.600 --> 04:54:01.440 I'm sorry River Pass Creekdale crosses through the property River Pass is the 04:54:01.440 --> 04:54:08.560 termination of the current project okay thank you sorry about that no other 04:54:08.560 --> 04:54:16.160 questions at this time Haley this is the applicant is here as well perfect is the 04:54:16.160 --> 04:54:21.880 applicant Obra new sir right you might butchering that okay are you the 04:54:21.880 --> 04:54:26.400 applicant yes perfect you to state your name and address record yes thank you I'm 04:54:26.400 --> 04:54:31.720 Abra Nusser and I'm at 180 State Street in South Lake Texas seven six zero nine 04:54:31.720 --> 04:54:37.080 two I'm here representing four star development tonight and this is an 04:54:37.080 --> 04:54:42.120 exciting project we're excited about it it's called lakeside place I'm just 04:54:42.120 --> 04:54:45.400 gonna run through a couple things with you we held a neighborhood meeting in 04:54:45.400 --> 04:54:51.840 September prior to the annexation beginning no negative comments during 04:54:51.840 --> 04:54:56.240 that meeting just some existing concerns about cut through traffic to the north 04:54:56.240 --> 04:55:02.080 nothing specific to our development but just existing traffic concerns at the 04:55:02.080 --> 04:55:07.240 annexation public hearings they did have some significant discussions with staff 04:55:07.240 --> 04:55:11.360 and City Council about the neighborhood traffic programs that the city has to 04:55:11.360 --> 04:55:17.320 address their concerns the annexation was completed in November 2018 and a 04:55:17.320 --> 04:55:20.440 traffic impact analysis as Haley mentioned was conditionally or 04:55:20.440 --> 04:55:25.440 preliminarily approved it's not actually required until platting time when we 04:55:25.440 --> 04:55:30.080 actually know the lot layouts and street alignment so we'll get into that more as 04:55:30.080 --> 04:55:35.740 we move forward so zoning now then platting and then building permits so 04:55:35.740 --> 04:55:40.280 four star is big into building sustainable communities with a true 04:55:40.280 --> 04:55:44.800 sense of place it's a residential and mixed-use real estate development company 04:55:44.800 --> 04:55:48.360 with decades of investment and development experience they have a lot 04:55:48.360 --> 04:55:52.480 of pride in creating neighborhoods with outstanding amenities and green space as 04:55:52.480 --> 04:55:56.760 you'll see here in a moment so just to kind of zoom out this is in what we call 04:55:56.760 --> 04:56:02.560 the wishbone of Denton it's a property that is just kind of left to be filled 04:56:02.560 --> 04:56:08.480 in if you will this is an aerial of the subject property there's a lot of great 04:56:08.480 --> 04:56:14.440 natural areas on the property that we're proposing to preserve and as Haley 04:56:14.440 --> 04:56:19.000 mentioned it is designated low-density residential on the future land use map so 04:56:19.000 --> 04:56:24.800 different from your previous case this one is consistent with the comprehensive 04:56:24.800 --> 04:56:29.160 plan didn't plan 2030 so we're proposing to comply with everything that's 04:56:29.160 --> 04:56:35.360 envisioned for this area it would be in our four maximum four dwelling units per 04:56:35.360 --> 04:56:40.840 acre there's no lot sizes established at this time no lot counts established at 04:56:40.840 --> 04:56:46.560 this time we're simply wishing to get it entitled for a real estate transaction 04:56:46.560 --> 04:56:53.720 at which time the lot lay out and civil improvements could begin so this is a 04:56:53.720 --> 04:57:00.600 kind of a concept of what we imagine the lot area to be so we as you can see 04:57:00.600 --> 04:57:05.360 we're proposing to keep a significant amount of open space and green space if 04:57:05.360 --> 04:57:09.160 you're familiar with the property at all although it's tucked away quite a bit 04:57:09.160 --> 04:57:13.840 it's a very scenic area here's some pictures for you we're proposing to keep 04:57:13.840 --> 04:57:19.240 this so it's going to be a very attractive different type of product 04:57:19.240 --> 04:57:23.880 that will allow the community members who live there to experience the nature 04:57:23.880 --> 04:57:27.760 that's currently on the property and it's going to be very scenic and very 04:57:27.760 --> 04:57:34.880 special so we're excited to preserve a good deal of the property and so next 04:57:34.880 --> 04:57:39.680 steps finalize the zoning plat the preliminary plat will come before you 04:57:39.680 --> 04:57:45.120 where we can discuss lot layout road layout and those types of things and 04:57:45.120 --> 04:57:49.640 building permits I do have one clarification from the work session just 04:57:49.640 --> 04:57:55.280 to clarify there are no gas wells on the subject property so any setbacks and 04:57:55.280 --> 04:57:59.760 whatnot we would have to maintain but there are no gas wells on this property 04:57:59.760 --> 04:58:04.840 and with that I will stand for any questions we do have one Commissioner back thank 04:58:04.840 --> 04:58:07.640 you chair thank you mr. sure I appreciate that and I really love your 04:58:07.640 --> 04:58:11.880 product here but I'm surprised here you say there's no gas wells because when I 04:58:11.880 --> 04:58:16.040 pull it up on the map there's three active gas wells there but what I'm 04:58:16.040 --> 04:58:21.040 seeing with your development and what I was glad to see is look like that green 04:58:21.040 --> 04:58:25.000 zone would cover them all that they would be isolated because of that but 04:58:25.000 --> 04:58:31.480 what I there is a gas well up here that one's been capped I know but you've got 04:58:31.480 --> 04:58:37.280 one in the North sector yeah there's there's a gas well to the east and a 04:58:37.280 --> 04:58:42.440 gas well to the north there's no there's not okay I need to go back and look then 04:58:42.440 --> 04:58:46.480 I apologize but I could have sworn I there was three of them two of them more 04:58:46.480 --> 04:58:52.080 close down there Highland Village or Highland right here is Calvert paving 04:58:52.080 --> 04:58:57.960 corporation yeah and this is where cattle graze okay well I'll go back and 04:58:57.960 --> 04:59:03.240 look at the map and I don't have access but if that's the case great because I 04:59:03.240 --> 04:59:08.760 just out of as a matter of record I have a hard time proving things that were 04:59:08.760 --> 04:59:12.000 homes are going to be in close proximity gas wheels because I do approve a lot of 04:59:12.000 --> 04:59:14.880 problems but they're not there great and if they are it looks like your 04:59:14.880 --> 04:59:22.800 development may even take care of thank you so much Mr. Sanchez 04:59:22.800 --> 04:59:33.360 yes you have any idea how many acres of those are going to be how many acres of 04:59:33.360 --> 04:59:46.920 green space roughly half of the property about property I would say over 20 acres 04:59:46.920 --> 04:59:57.440 well over 20 acres of green space and preserved area okay okay it's kind of 04:59:57.440 --> 05:00:03.000 in planning we call almost conservation development where you try to cluster the 05:00:03.000 --> 05:00:09.000 lots to have as much open space as possible it's really interesting in the 05:00:09.000 --> 05:00:13.520 Denton development code and tracks over two acres in size it allows the market 05:00:13.520 --> 05:00:18.480 to have this type of design flexibility to preserve these beautiful areas so I 05:00:18.480 --> 05:00:25.080 commend you on your Denton development code so I don't see any other questions 05:00:25.080 --> 05:00:30.600 thank you thank you very much this is a public hearing if anyone's wishing to 05:00:30.600 --> 05:00:34.840 speak on the item we certainly do so you just come down and state your name and 05:00:34.840 --> 05:00:45.600 address for the record Tommy Calvert I live at 5299 Settlers Creek Road Denton 05:00:45.600 --> 05:00:52.440 Texas this plan is adjoining my property on the east side this part of the 05:00:52.440 --> 05:00:57.080 property that's being developed and my property was in my family's farm since 05:00:57.080 --> 05:01:03.200 1946 and I'm not totally opposed to the plan but I would be happy to work with 05:01:03.200 --> 05:01:07.280 them to see because I have Thistle Hill on the north side of me and Ryan ranch 05:01:07.280 --> 05:01:12.920 on the east side of me what I have now is trash I have water overflow so I ask 05:01:12.920 --> 05:01:17.040 you to take into consideration these plans before you look at them that you 05:01:17.040 --> 05:01:20.080 look at some of these things that some of us landowners having to deal with 05:01:20.080 --> 05:01:24.680 today like says been in my family over 70 years it was farmland is still ranch 05:01:24.680 --> 05:01:28.080 land I still have cattle on it I'm gonna continue to have cattle on my portion of 05:01:28.080 --> 05:01:32.000 it but I don't need to be flooded and I don't want trash coming down the creek 05:01:32.000 --> 05:01:37.720 as I do have now so I ask that you have them to work with us landowners left 05:01:37.720 --> 05:01:43.440 also in addressing your comprehensive 2030 plan I'm the current president of 05:01:43.440 --> 05:01:47.400 the Denton County Farm Bureau here and I had a look at that plan a while few 05:01:47.400 --> 05:01:50.960 years ago and I looked at the stakeholders that you had involved in 05:01:50.960 --> 05:01:56.960 that plan I did not see any one of us that live out there in the ETJ that was 05:01:56.960 --> 05:02:01.520 in on that plan who was involved with people that would not be affected by 05:02:01.520 --> 05:02:06.400 that plan I ask you look at that when you go back to that plan involve some 05:02:06.400 --> 05:02:10.880 of the stakeholders out there that live out in ETJ they live in the rural what 05:02:10.880 --> 05:02:14.680 used to be rural areas to be involved with that as we could help with that 05:02:14.680 --> 05:02:19.800 planning because we had no involvement we have no say so I have no say so I'm 05:02:19.800 --> 05:02:23.520 not in the city I'm in the county in my portion of this property that just got 05:02:23.520 --> 05:02:28.140 annexed but we try to keep it green space I tried to keep some rural area 05:02:28.140 --> 05:02:32.440 out there it's a beautiful area we border on Hickory Creek my other concern 05:02:32.440 --> 05:02:37.680 will be traffic as any of you ever drive Hickory Creek Road we've got Thistle 05:02:37.680 --> 05:02:41.600 Hill we've got Ryan Ranch down the road now we got all well you know we've had 05:02:41.600 --> 05:02:46.600 accidents we had a fatality just today out there on Hickory Creek Road take in 05:02:46.600 --> 05:02:52.280 consideration that cart before the horse thing how fast can that cart pull that 05:02:52.280 --> 05:02:55.600 horse you know I mean it can't because it's what we're having happen today and 05:02:55.600 --> 05:02:59.640 didn't and I grew up here when school here been here all my life fourth 05:02:59.640 --> 05:03:06.840 generation I I'm not against growth I'm totally for it but I'm for more planned 05:03:06.840 --> 05:03:11.480 growth where we look at it before we do but don't put that wagon in front of 05:03:11.480 --> 05:03:15.960 that horse let's work put that horse around the front the streets out in our 05:03:15.960 --> 05:03:19.740 area like they said they're going to expand Hickory Creek Road from Creekdale 05:03:19.740 --> 05:03:24.600 back that will be good but from Creekdale I mean from Creekdale back 05:03:24.600 --> 05:03:27.280 west I don't what you're going to do you got a creek to cross you're going to 05:03:27.280 --> 05:03:31.520 build an enormous bridge I farm that land down in the creek it's in the flood 05:03:31.520 --> 05:03:34.680 plain a lot of that's in the flood I like what they're going to do with this 05:03:34.680 --> 05:03:39.300 and keeping a lot of that green space I think that's very very admirable but just 05:03:39.300 --> 05:03:43.400 think about the infrastructure with the streets and what we have to deal with 05:03:43.400 --> 05:03:48.760 out there as far as the traffic the trash the water overflows but I'm not 05:03:48.760 --> 05:03:51.960 totally opposed to them I think they've got a good plan I look forward to seeing 05:03:51.960 --> 05:03:54.940 is move along think about us stakeholders out there in that 05:03:54.940 --> 05:03:59.380 comprehensive plan include some of us in that plan bring some of us to the table 05:03:59.380 --> 05:04:04.640 let us help you plan that future for those rural areas that previous one that 05:04:04.640 --> 05:04:08.060 was ahead of us I understood where those people were coming from they had no say 05:04:08.060 --> 05:04:11.880 so you know we've none of us had any say so over the years about what city did 05:04:11.880 --> 05:04:16.360 my grandfather told me one time it's coming it'll be here and it is it's 05:04:16.360 --> 05:04:20.080 there now but you know we'd like to be a part of the planning of it thank you 05:04:20.080 --> 05:04:23.320 thank you very much 05:04:23.320 --> 05:04:31.920 here's your else thank you chair I just had a quick question sir sorry I was 05:04:31.920 --> 05:04:35.880 just curious if you attended the neighborhood meeting that they had no you 05:04:35.880 --> 05:04:39.560 know what I did not get a notice in the mail I got a certified letter about two 05:04:39.560 --> 05:04:44.280 three weeks ago that's all I've got and in the past with Thistle Hill Ryan ranch 05:04:44.280 --> 05:04:48.360 I received no letters whatsoever so somebody falls down on her job 05:04:48.360 --> 05:04:51.320 occasionally on here because I don't receive a letter but no I didn't tend 05:04:51.320 --> 05:04:54.440 that because I didn't get a letter to the other day my sister who owns part of 05:04:54.440 --> 05:05:00.200 the other property did not receive a letter so well maybe yeah after this 05:05:00.200 --> 05:05:03.760 discussion you can exchange numbers so that you can stay in communication with 05:05:03.760 --> 05:05:09.760 like say I'm not opposed to the to their zoning and the development just want a 05:05:09.760 --> 05:05:12.720 city to look a little further into the streets and infrastructure that we got 05:05:12.720 --> 05:05:17.120 out there because it cannot accommodate much more traffic out there right now 05:05:17.120 --> 05:05:25.720 so I hope I answered your question thank you I think as a point ETHJ wouldn't 05:05:25.720 --> 05:05:29.960 have received any letters previously now that he's annexed he'll be on the mail 05:05:29.960 --> 05:05:42.320 endless this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak may do so good evening 05:05:42.320 --> 05:05:47.520 my name is Patricia Clark I live at 768 Ryan Road and I'm in that I'm the top 05:05:47.520 --> 05:05:55.580 white slit that's undeveloped and Ryan Road can barely cover and handle the 05:05:55.580 --> 05:06:01.120 traffic that we have up there now when my mother was living she gave the 05:06:01.120 --> 05:06:06.600 right-of-way and the sidewalk that takes the children to run run elementary which 05:06:06.600 --> 05:06:13.000 was named after my uncle and we gave that land so I development is great I 05:06:13.000 --> 05:06:18.920 love that part of didn't we just again I think the the card is pulling the horse 05:06:18.920 --> 05:06:24.760 until Ryan Road is able to handle the traffic that it currently has I don't 05:06:24.760 --> 05:06:31.200 see how by enlarging and completing creekside which is the way in and out 05:06:31.200 --> 05:06:35.160 of the other development it's just going to increase the amount of traffic that 05:06:35.160 --> 05:06:42.560 there is and it's it's not going to it's going to be a danger with kids walking 05:06:42.560 --> 05:06:47.160 plus I'm really it was surprised to see that the school district said they could 05:06:47.160 --> 05:06:52.320 handle the schools because the Ryan Elementary School is closed to the people 05:06:52.320 --> 05:06:56.540 that live in the district in the housing development behind them and those 05:06:56.540 --> 05:07:01.320 children are now having to go to Sam Houston elementary so I don't see how 05:07:01.320 --> 05:07:05.680 they think that a new development with that many homes is going to be able to 05:07:05.680 --> 05:07:12.880 fit into it so I'm not opposed to it I also did not get a notice about the 05:07:12.880 --> 05:07:18.160 community meeting I did get a registered letter about this meeting so I 05:07:18.160 --> 05:07:23.560 appreciate that part of it so thank you thank you 05:07:23.560 --> 05:07:35.400 anyone else wishing to speak on this item seeing none I will close the public 05:07:35.400 --> 05:07:39.320 hearing and open it up to the dais for discussion or motion to Commissioner 05:07:39.320 --> 05:07:47.280 Smith I move for approval of this item primarily based upon the fact that just 05:07:47.280 --> 05:07:50.640 like we saw at the last the last project we saw that the biggest issue was that 05:07:50.640 --> 05:07:53.760 trying to push out in the more rural areas and that we first need to focus on 05:07:53.760 --> 05:07:57.300 some of the big infill and this is going to be a good infill project for our city 05:07:57.300 --> 05:08:03.880 so motion I move to approve Commissioner Pernetta I said we have a first and a 05:08:03.880 --> 05:08:11.200 second any discussion so before we call this to a vote I have one point that 05:08:11.200 --> 05:08:17.560 I'm gonna make and it's that I live in this area and I take River Pass and 05:08:17.560 --> 05:08:25.080 Creekdale and Andrew Avenue often from Forest Ridge down to Kroger and all 05:08:25.080 --> 05:08:32.360 that and the expansion of Hickory Creek is only gonna make that pass through and 05:08:32.360 --> 05:08:36.000 cut through through the neighborhood more lucrative to me and I imagine others 05:08:36.000 --> 05:08:42.840 it's it's pretty well traveled but my major concern is increasing that pipe so 05:08:42.840 --> 05:08:46.520 to speak to four lanes and then immediately ending it at the railroad 05:08:46.520 --> 05:08:53.840 tracks is just going to encourage if not promote more traffic through Hickory 05:08:53.840 --> 05:09:00.720 Creek flood area and me personally that is my most despised road in the city and 05:09:00.720 --> 05:09:05.560 evidence of this morning were two kids unnecessarily lost their life on that 05:09:05.560 --> 05:09:10.360 ridiculously dangerous Street I decided prompting one more road one more car on 05:09:10.360 --> 05:09:16.120 the road anywhere near that so until the city can definitively determine how to 05:09:16.120 --> 05:09:21.640 get rid of that Street being driven on I'm just gonna have an issue approving 05:09:21.640 --> 05:09:25.960 this project it looks beautiful I'm all for cluster development I just in my 05:09:25.960 --> 05:09:32.360 heart cannot put put any more cars on the road until Hickory Creek's better 05:09:32.360 --> 05:09:38.680 solved so with that I see any other discussions I will put the vote to the 05:09:38.680 --> 05:09:40.880 board 05:09:40.880 --> 05:09:57.120 the motion to approve carries five to congratulations the next item for 05:09:57.120 --> 05:10:04.340 business is item 5c z 18 - 0 0 2 3 I will open the public hearing and call Julie 05:10:04.340 --> 05:10:07.080 for presentation 05:10:17.040 --> 05:10:30.680 right okay this is I'm Julie Wyatt I just want to go on the record that 05:10:30.680 --> 05:10:34.200 Commissioner Cole is recusing himself inside him so he's gonna leave okay the 05:10:34.200 --> 05:10:41.200 room we'll invite him back to close thank you so I'm Julie Wyatt senior 05:10:41.200 --> 05:10:46.400 planner with the city of Denton and I am presenting z 1823 so the request before 05:10:46.400 --> 05:10:52.120 you is to consider a rezoning from regional center commercial downtown and 05:10:52.120 --> 05:10:57.760 regional center regional center commercial neighborhood to employment 05:10:57.760 --> 05:11:06.000 center industrial on a total of 17 or eight 16 acres I'm sorry the subject 05:11:06.000 --> 05:11:11.200 property is located on the northwest side of town it's situated between a 05:11:11.200 --> 05:11:19.600 railroad corridor as well as the I-35 highway north of University um here's a 05:11:19.600 --> 05:11:24.800 map of the current zoning so half of the subject property has a zoning designation 05:11:24.800 --> 05:11:30.080 of RCC in that's that regional center commercial neighborhood and then the 05:11:30.080 --> 05:11:36.720 southern half of the tract has the RCC D so it's a total of 16 acres the 05:11:36.720 --> 05:11:43.900 surrounding zoning pattern includes ECI to the east across the street of this 05:11:43.900 --> 05:11:48.360 from the subject property we've got ICG to the south that's one of our industrial 05:11:48.360 --> 05:11:54.000 zoning districts our seed CD a little further to the south to the west of the 05:11:54.000 --> 05:11:58.000 subject property as it is a neighborhood and that has the NR to zoning 05:11:58.000 --> 05:12:01.600 designation and then across the highway you're probably familiar with the razor 05:12:01.600 --> 05:12:05.900 ranch and there's a lot of commercial development across the highway the 05:12:05.900 --> 05:12:10.520 proposed rezoning is to just extend that existing ECI that's across the street 05:12:10.520 --> 05:12:16.340 and take in the subject property so this is a proposed concept plan they're 05:12:16.340 --> 05:12:22.760 really looking at a storage use they're looking at at at truck storage and this 05:12:22.760 --> 05:12:27.280 is not a final plan this is really just a kind of a concept for you to see what 05:12:27.280 --> 05:12:31.080 they are proposing if the zoning were approved they could develop with any of 05:12:31.080 --> 05:12:36.120 the uses permitted within ECI at the scale that's permitted in ECI so keep 05:12:36.120 --> 05:12:41.080 that in mind as as you're thinking about this case just to take a look a little 05:12:41.080 --> 05:12:47.240 closely at this concept plan this is the southern portion of the tract there are 05:12:47.240 --> 05:12:51.760 no changes currently proposed for this this is it's two commercial buildings 05:12:51.760 --> 05:12:56.600 and they have tenants in it the proposed development is really for that northern 05:12:56.600 --> 05:13:00.400 tract there is a kind of a regional detention pond several tracks take 05:13:00.400 --> 05:13:05.080 advantage of this detention as as they're proposing they're not proposing 05:13:05.080 --> 05:13:10.640 any changes to that drainage pattern the criteria for approval are in sub 05:13:10.640 --> 05:13:14.160 chapter 3 of the Denton development code and that is does it conform with the 05:13:14.160 --> 05:13:18.640 future land use map and didn't plan 2030 and are there adequate public facilities 05:13:18.640 --> 05:13:23.840 to serve the development so first we'll take a look at Denton plan 2030 the 05:13:23.840 --> 05:13:27.800 subject property is and within a business innovation future land use 05:13:27.800 --> 05:13:32.640 designation is as you're well aware that is for those well-planned large-scale 05:13:32.640 --> 05:13:39.040 employment uses and the supporting retail hotels residential those types 05:13:39.040 --> 05:13:43.320 of commercial uses a place where somebody could get lunch or work or live 05:13:43.320 --> 05:13:50.600 close to where they work I see ECI is one of those zoning districts that that 05:13:50.600 --> 05:13:54.280 really conforms well to the business innovation future land use because it 05:13:54.280 --> 05:14:00.600 does allow some of those industrial in office uses to to support the commercial 05:14:00.600 --> 05:14:05.120 intent of business innovation or the employment intent of business innovation 05:14:05.120 --> 05:14:09.400 but it also allows a broad array of commercial uses to allow that 05:14:09.400 --> 05:14:16.240 supporting development to occur transportation that the applicant did do 05:14:16.240 --> 05:14:22.280 a trip generation analysis on the site and and due to their proposed use of 05:14:22.280 --> 05:14:26.600 storage it would not generate a whole lot of traffic and they're proposing 05:14:26.600 --> 05:14:32.480 they're anticipating about 95 trips within a 24-hour weekday peak hour of 05:14:32.480 --> 05:14:37.880 20 trips so due to that volume of trips they wouldn't it wouldn't trigger a full 05:14:37.880 --> 05:14:43.560 TIA you generally have to get to a thousand trips before you do a full TIA 05:14:43.560 --> 05:14:49.960 it is nearby to I-35 and West University so there's a lot of access to the site 05:14:49.960 --> 05:14:53.680 however it doesn't connect to the neighborhoods to the West and that was 05:14:53.680 --> 05:14:57.600 something that was really important to us as we looked at this case is that 05:14:57.600 --> 05:15:01.880 railroad corridor really does sort of cut off this site from that neighborhood 05:15:01.880 --> 05:15:06.560 and I think that's important when we want to be sensitive to our neighborhoods 05:15:06.560 --> 05:15:11.920 other findings we considered was that this was a logical continuation of the 05:15:11.920 --> 05:15:16.960 surrounding zoning and land use pattern the existing land uses surrounding the 05:15:16.960 --> 05:15:20.800 subject property include commercial development along I-35 where they want 05:15:20.800 --> 05:15:27.000 that visibility from a lot of traffic kind of transitioning to more employment 05:15:27.000 --> 05:15:33.000 uses as you get further off of I-35 so between that railroad corridor and 35 05:15:33.000 --> 05:15:38.040 you've got that that blend of commercial and employment uses so this proposed 05:15:38.040 --> 05:15:43.180 zoning district really does fit well within that existing pattern but once 05:15:43.180 --> 05:15:46.800 again we want to be sensitive to that relationship to the nearby residential 05:15:46.800 --> 05:15:51.760 area so once again that physical separation with that railroad addition 05:15:51.760 --> 05:15:58.480 that railroad is is is is elevated so that so that it does sort of mute those 05:15:58.480 --> 05:16:03.200 those visual impacts of any development on the site industrial uses that are 05:16:03.200 --> 05:16:08.160 embedded within ECI are generally our lower impact so they wouldn't be heavy 05:16:08.160 --> 05:16:13.320 industrial those types of uses that create a lot of pollutants or those those 05:16:13.320 --> 05:16:19.480 off-site impacts the the proposed zoning district and the existing zoning 05:16:19.480 --> 05:16:23.320 districts or the current zoning district have comparable development scales so 05:16:23.320 --> 05:16:28.840 that a development on the site visually would would be similar to to for those 05:16:28.840 --> 05:16:33.400 adjoining properties and then design standards within sub chapter 13 05:16:33.400 --> 05:16:37.400 particularly the tree canopy right now the site doesn't have a lot of trees on 05:16:37.400 --> 05:16:41.640 it but when it develops it will be required to comply with all the site 05:16:41.640 --> 05:16:47.600 design requirements and one of those is planning 30% tree canopy so so those are 05:16:47.600 --> 05:16:54.240 important factors to consider so just to briefly look at the current uses the 05:16:54.240 --> 05:16:57.160 probably the most important thing is that under current zoning there are 05:16:57.160 --> 05:17:03.080 residential uses permitted things like townhomes multi-family with an SUP ECI 05:17:03.080 --> 05:17:06.720 kind of takes out those residential uses it really is for those employment and 05:17:06.720 --> 05:17:13.640 commercial developments they all of those zoning districts do have certain 05:17:13.640 --> 05:17:18.080 commercial uses that they permit they're a little variation but they do have a 05:17:18.080 --> 05:17:23.880 variety of commercial uses ECI does fold in more industrial uses but once again 05:17:23.880 --> 05:17:29.240 those are some of those lower impact the light industrial or the the warehousing 05:17:29.240 --> 05:17:35.640 distribution centers so things that create fewer off-site impacts general 05:17:35.640 --> 05:17:39.620 regulations once again is that development scale it's pretty comparable 05:17:39.620 --> 05:17:45.320 across those zoning districts RCCD does allow buildings to be a hundred feet ECI 05:17:45.320 --> 05:17:50.520 only allows a 65 feet so that actually would reduce the building height 05:17:50.520 --> 05:17:54.600 notification was sent out and the applicant did have a neighborhood 05:17:54.600 --> 05:18:00.440 meeting there were we received five letters in opposition and I apologize I 05:18:00.440 --> 05:18:05.900 did not give you one of them or some some writing or some email that I 05:18:05.900 --> 05:18:12.200 received in work session so Kathy passed it out earlier so sorry about that but 05:18:12.200 --> 05:18:18.560 with with where the 200 foot boundary is very little of that opposition actually 05:18:18.560 --> 05:18:23.680 counted toward the that percentage you know that that we look at when looking at 05:18:23.680 --> 05:18:28.600 a supermajority so there's only 1% opposition within that 200 foot boundary 05:18:28.600 --> 05:18:33.400 so based upon the criteria for approval the future land use as well as the public 05:18:33.400 --> 05:18:37.400 facility staff does recommend approval of the request and I will stand for any 05:18:37.400 --> 05:18:39.680 questions thank you Julie we do have a question 05:18:39.680 --> 05:18:44.400 commissioner Pernetta so I just wanted to make sure that we recapped anything 05:18:44.400 --> 05:18:48.640 for an any because I saw majority the concerns were traffic concerns from 05:18:48.640 --> 05:18:53.040 neighbors any traffic that comes out of that would be minimal and it would be 05:18:53.040 --> 05:19:00.240 going out to the opposite side toward 35 along the access road and there was 05:19:00.240 --> 05:19:05.360 concerns about lights or whatever based on I don't know which slide it was but 05:19:05.360 --> 05:19:13.640 it looked like there was a mock-up with showing there so proposed I guess 05:19:13.640 --> 05:19:17.880 structure would be more toward the east and you have some separation between 05:19:17.880 --> 05:19:23.080 that and you said the tracks were raised they are I don't I don't know how tall 05:19:23.080 --> 05:19:27.520 but they are raised probably ten feet it's there there is some some great 05:19:27.520 --> 05:19:30.280 change there with the railroad so there'd be a barrier there that kind of 05:19:30.280 --> 05:19:38.600 natural okay cool that's all I really had thanks thanks I don't see any other 05:19:38.600 --> 05:19:42.040 questions thank you this is a public hearing if you're wishing to speak we 05:19:42.040 --> 05:19:46.200 just ask that you fill out a card the first individual will be the applicant 05:19:46.200 --> 05:19:53.280 and as Amy said you have ten minutes good evening commissioners I promise not 05:19:53.280 --> 05:19:58.880 to take ten minutes I do have a brief presentation for you I'm Amy visit with 05:19:58.880 --> 05:20:06.200 Northbridge consultants 212 South Elm Denton 76201 I'd like to start by 05:20:06.200 --> 05:20:10.840 clearing clarifying a question that came up during the work session which was is 05:20:10.840 --> 05:20:15.600 the person is the applicant also going to be the person that owns and develops 05:20:15.600 --> 05:20:20.720 the property in the future and I represent the owner of 2401 Worthington 05:20:20.720 --> 05:20:24.840 today which is the southern half of the property that has already developed with 05:20:24.840 --> 05:20:28.020 two commercial buildings that I'll show you a little more detail on that in a 05:20:28.020 --> 05:20:31.760 moment they currently have 2501 Worthington in 05:20:31.760 --> 05:20:38.200 contract with the intent to develop and own it and operate it into the future I 05:20:38.200 --> 05:20:42.880 want to start by just giving you a brief overview of what's already on the ground 05:20:42.880 --> 05:20:47.660 and when we did have a neighborhood meeting there were some misunderstandings 05:20:47.660 --> 05:20:52.840 or that that we were building this from scratch and so I want to make it clear 05:20:52.840 --> 05:20:58.840 that 2401 Worthington is existing today it is two multi-tenant warehouses on 05:20:58.840 --> 05:21:04.440 roughly eight and a half acres and each warehouse is over 30,000 square feet and 05:21:04.440 --> 05:21:10.680 there is a hundred roughly vehicle parking spaces and 50 semi truck 05:21:10.680 --> 05:21:17.040 parking spaces this was built in 2007 here's a picture of it in case you'd 05:21:17.040 --> 05:21:22.920 like to see what it looks like the expansion which both of these properties 05:21:22.920 --> 05:21:26.400 are contemplated in the zoning just because we felt like it was important to 05:21:26.400 --> 05:21:31.640 present a cohesive development so that you can see the big picture and rezone 05:21:31.640 --> 05:21:40.320 the entire property since it is intended to be uses that are complimentary to each 05:21:40.320 --> 05:21:45.880 other so and the the concept plan that Julie had up on the screen is we've 05:21:45.880 --> 05:21:50.360 we've modified it slightly so I want to point that out and we do want to expand 05:21:50.360 --> 05:21:55.280 the use to the north and it will be would be primarily truck parking and 84 05:21:55.280 --> 05:21:59.240 spaces this would be on a flex base so it would be pervious so it would have 05:21:59.240 --> 05:22:06.960 minimal impact on drainage and 11 vehicular parking spaces which would 05:22:06.960 --> 05:22:11.240 service the a small warehouse building which would be located on the far 05:22:11.240 --> 05:22:16.680 northeast corner of the property and that would be a tenant space as well that 05:22:16.680 --> 05:22:21.560 would be similar to those to the south and the purpose for this development is 05:22:21.560 --> 05:22:27.360 really that we see the demand in the transportation logistics cluster that 05:22:27.360 --> 05:22:33.320 exists in Denton and specifically I'll point out Peter built produces up to a 05:22:33.320 --> 05:22:38.000 hundred and fifty new semi trucks a day there are many vendors and suppliers who 05:22:38.000 --> 05:22:42.200 have to move those trucks out of Denton and across the country and they often 05:22:42.200 --> 05:22:46.720 have to be staged and stored for a certain amount of time before you know 05:22:46.720 --> 05:22:50.600 they're stacked and then they're hauled out all at once or a number of them at a 05:22:50.600 --> 05:22:57.160 time and what what we found is that it's very difficult for those transporters to 05:22:57.160 --> 05:23:02.080 find space to park those trucks today that's an appropriately located space 05:23:02.080 --> 05:23:07.400 and we feel like this is appropriate with the surrounding industrial uses we 05:23:07.400 --> 05:23:12.260 do anticipate anticipate that there will be some single tenant users as well that 05:23:12.260 --> 05:23:18.640 park their trucks there when they're not on a route we did hold a neighborhood 05:23:18.640 --> 05:23:23.040 meeting when Julie mailed out the 500 foot courtesy notifications she gave me 05:23:23.040 --> 05:23:27.720 a call and because a few of the residents and ranch estates were notified and she 05:23:27.720 --> 05:23:32.240 had heard some concerns from them so and we went ahead and mailed out an 05:23:32.240 --> 05:23:36.920 invitation to everybody within ranch estates and that was our intent anyway 05:23:36.920 --> 05:23:41.640 we went property by property in CAD to make sure that we pulled every address 05:23:41.640 --> 05:23:46.680 and we held a come-and-go neighborhood meeting and we had three in attendance 05:23:46.680 --> 05:23:50.800 although they were clear to us that they were representing multiple neighbors and 05:23:50.800 --> 05:23:58.680 and then I had an additional four phone calls and or emails and as well what we 05:23:58.680 --> 05:24:01.480 really heard from the neighborhood meeting I want to try to address 05:24:01.480 --> 05:24:07.040 directly what we heard and and how we want to be respectful of the the 05:24:07.040 --> 05:24:12.200 neighboring single-family neighborhood and we heard that they have concerns 05:24:12.200 --> 05:24:17.480 about the drainage the noise and visibility of the site and encroachment 05:24:17.480 --> 05:24:20.880 in general on their neighborhood by industrial and commercial properties 05:24:20.880 --> 05:24:27.000 and which is not necessarily specific to this project but we wanted to hear we 05:24:27.000 --> 05:24:31.520 heard it and understood that to be a concern of theirs and then mobility as 05:24:31.520 --> 05:24:37.120 well specifically Windsor Drive and they had heard that the Windsor Drive would 05:24:37.120 --> 05:24:41.720 come underneath I-35 in the future and potentially tie directly into their 05:24:41.720 --> 05:24:46.080 neighborhood and they were concerned about how that would open up access from 05:24:46.080 --> 05:24:51.840 our site to the west and I do want to point out here I've got the zoning map 05:24:51.840 --> 05:24:57.560 up here the Ranch Estates is a part of that NR2 zoning designation there's a 05:24:57.560 --> 05:25:03.200 very clear barrier there in terms of zoning at the railroad site that I do 05:25:03.200 --> 05:25:08.400 think serves as a protection from encroachment from from the east of that 05:25:08.400 --> 05:25:12.800 property in addition as you saw with the future land use plan it is intended to 05:25:12.800 --> 05:25:18.400 remain low-density residential into the future Windsor Drive we obviously have no 05:25:18.400 --> 05:25:23.640 control over with our project but we will state for the record that we don't 05:25:23.640 --> 05:25:28.520 want Windsor Drive to connect to their neighborhood and have no need for any 05:25:28.520 --> 05:25:33.360 connectivity going west over the railroad tracks also want to talk about 05:25:33.360 --> 05:25:40.480 their concerns regarding drainage as well as their concerns regarding nuisance 05:25:40.480 --> 05:25:45.520 in terms of noise and visibility so I'll address drainage first as Julie 05:25:45.520 --> 05:25:49.840 mentioned there is an existing regional detention pond on our site that we're 05:25:49.840 --> 05:25:54.280 looking at expanding onto and we can't get anywhere near that so we're gonna be 05:25:54.280 --> 05:26:00.820 hundreds of feet from the railroad and much less from the neighborhood and we 05:26:00.820 --> 05:26:05.480 did visit with some neighbors about what would make them more comfortable with a 05:26:05.480 --> 05:26:11.920 project as it relates to noise and visibility and we offered to plant 05:26:11.920 --> 05:26:17.520 trees along the backside of the site and and in order to memorialize that the 05:26:17.520 --> 05:26:24.440 developer it will commit to a type C landscape buffer which is six trees and 05:26:24.440 --> 05:26:32.000 25 shrubs every hundred feet along the backside of 2501 the railroad does 05:26:32.000 --> 05:26:39.280 create a very significant visual buffer as well and it's while standing from 05:26:39.280 --> 05:26:44.120 from the road over here Marshall Road and you really can't see anything except 05:26:44.120 --> 05:26:48.720 greenery unless it's winter which then you may be able to see the top of a 05:26:48.720 --> 05:26:54.280 building that is all I have and I'd be happy to answer any questions we do have 05:26:54.280 --> 05:27:01.920 one question to mr. Beck thank you chair thanks so there's no new warehousing in 05:27:01.920 --> 05:27:05.880 this development you're just developing the parking for the trucks that utilize 05:27:05.880 --> 05:27:10.080 the warehousing that's already there we do intend to put a small building in the 05:27:10.080 --> 05:27:14.600 front here the northeast it's roughly 6,000 square feet okay and that is 05:27:14.600 --> 05:27:21.300 primarily because the the storage use of truck parking is an accessory use and we 05:27:21.300 --> 05:27:26.000 need to have a primary use on the actual lot okay these trucks will be parked 05:27:26.000 --> 05:27:34.360 there for a few hours to a few days days at a time okay would there be some of 05:27:34.360 --> 05:27:38.000 these truckers live out of their trucks so would there be situations where they 05:27:38.000 --> 05:27:41.680 park their truck and run their engine for a while to keep warm and is there 05:27:41.680 --> 05:27:47.120 would that be allowed and if it is I'm gonna defer to the developer and 05:27:47.120 --> 05:27:51.280 property owner on that so that they can speak to how they address it on the 05:27:51.280 --> 05:27:55.980 existing property where there's 50 truck parking spaces in the back today so they 05:27:55.980 --> 05:28:00.480 already and they have some experience in that and they already have some okay I 05:28:00.480 --> 05:28:04.880 wouldn't see it being a big issue there might be a few but I'm just curious if 05:28:04.880 --> 05:28:08.760 that was something they are here and can speak to that question if you'd like 05:28:08.760 --> 05:28:16.160 all right thank you Chris relis thank you chair thanks Amy question the only 05:28:16.160 --> 05:28:21.400 thing I I'm concerned with with the zoning change is one item that it opens 05:28:21.400 --> 05:28:25.840 up what this can develop down the road not saying that you would do this but 05:28:25.840 --> 05:28:30.020 it opens it up and that's an electric substation is there a would you be 05:28:30.020 --> 05:28:34.960 willing to eliminate that with approval of this I am going to defer to the 05:28:34.960 --> 05:28:37.840 property owner on that as well but I'll let them answer that question for you 05:28:37.840 --> 05:28:43.240 okay I appreciate that thanks there's other questions for you appreciate that 05:28:43.240 --> 05:28:49.960 all right thank you we have several cards to to complete and then we might 05:28:49.960 --> 05:28:53.960 circle back backgrounds to some of the commissioners requests of the developer 05:28:53.960 --> 05:29:08.440 first card I have is Rebecca height there's two names listed here my name is 05:29:08.440 --> 05:29:15.480 Dan height I live at 3800 Hampton Road I did not receive the invite to come to 05:29:15.480 --> 05:29:20.040 the meeting and I understand why because her red circle excludes me I'm on the 05:29:20.040 --> 05:29:23.760 north side of that red circle at the back of the subdivision and I'm at the 05:29:23.760 --> 05:29:28.840 very peak of the triangle where their their plan comes down to and they also 05:29:28.840 --> 05:29:33.360 excluded several other homes that are back there as well and so this is we 05:29:33.360 --> 05:29:38.640 heard about it when we got the card so quickly I'll say because I had to be 05:29:38.640 --> 05:29:44.240 quick right so 25 years I've been driving by Ranch Estates I've always 05:29:44.240 --> 05:29:48.680 dreamed of living in Ranch Estates several years ago I finally got the money 05:29:48.680 --> 05:29:53.320 together and I bought a house in Ranch Estates it's been kind of a series of 05:29:53.320 --> 05:29:58.280 unfortunate events since that time the city approved a house trailer being 05:29:58.280 --> 05:30:01.480 planted right in the middle of our subdivision text dot took away our turn 05:30:01.480 --> 05:30:06.400 lanes got one of our residents killed almost got me killed exiting the 05:30:06.400 --> 05:30:14.240 subdivision with no notice that 380 had been opened up it's been trying right 05:30:14.240 --> 05:30:19.560 now that area that she's talking about you can see it very clearly yes the 05:30:19.560 --> 05:30:24.440 train track is elevated their property is elevated higher so she may have stood 05:30:24.440 --> 05:30:28.920 down there once I stand down there all the time those lights that come on from 05:30:28.920 --> 05:30:34.040 that property are blinding to our side over there the noise that comes from one 05:30:34.040 --> 05:30:39.080 of the whatever plant that is the booms that happen all night throughout the 05:30:39.080 --> 05:30:44.960 night and wake you up it's already bad it's already bad so now we're going to 05:30:44.960 --> 05:30:51.680 have a I'm assuming a facility that's running 24/7 with the same kind of noise 05:30:51.680 --> 05:30:58.360 or worse noise maybe more lights so I'll just I'll hit each one of those points I 05:30:58.360 --> 05:31:03.520 am definitely a fan of progress I get that area over there somebody owns that 05:31:03.520 --> 05:31:10.480 wants to develop it and what their plan is looks pretty good but we do have some 05:31:10.480 --> 05:31:15.640 concerns she said there's no connection I believe but there is a plan connection 05:31:15.640 --> 05:31:20.120 which I found out about through this process of researching this that the 05:31:20.120 --> 05:31:25.360 plan connection goes through my house so another part of unfortunate events for 05:31:25.360 --> 05:31:33.800 me but is that true so we can definitely verify that okay so there is a plan 05:31:33.800 --> 05:31:37.680 connection and the the person that's developing it acknowledged that before 05:31:37.680 --> 05:31:40.960 the meeting that absolutely if that comes through they're excited to use that 05:31:40.960 --> 05:31:44.720 right through the middle of our subdivision so here come the 18 05:31:44.720 --> 05:31:48.240 wheelers through our subdivision I appreciated your question I think that 05:31:48.240 --> 05:31:51.660 was one I hadn't thought about them running those trucks throughout the 05:31:51.660 --> 05:31:55.440 night but we missed the neighborhood meeting the building is a higher 05:31:55.440 --> 05:31:59.800 elevation than the tracks pointed at us we already have drainage problems in our 05:31:59.800 --> 05:32:04.480 subdivision so I'm hoping that maybe they're going to improve their drainage 05:32:04.480 --> 05:32:08.120 so that we don't get more drainage down in the subdivision because we already do 05:32:08.120 --> 05:32:13.760 have a lot of problems the noise the light the hours of operation they sit in 05:32:13.760 --> 05:32:18.600 there during their 24-hour day they're gonna have this many vehicles right does 05:32:18.600 --> 05:32:24.480 that mean it is a 24-hour operation so I would like if I'm gonna ask for 05:32:24.480 --> 05:32:29.560 something I would like there to be some consideration I get that area over there 05:32:29.560 --> 05:32:36.120 I get this this plan fits that area but think about us and I probably shouldn't 05:32:36.120 --> 05:32:39.840 even be the right one speaking because I'm a newbie to the subdivision I'm not 05:32:39.840 --> 05:32:45.280 the 50-year residents that have lived there all these years but maybe limiting 05:32:45.280 --> 05:32:49.360 the hours of operation limiting the noise limiting the lights limiting 05:32:49.360 --> 05:32:54.400 something that will affect us long term and definitely if there's a future road 05:32:54.400 --> 05:33:00.480 planned through there how's that gonna affect us it's gonna be gonna be pretty 05:33:00.480 --> 05:33:04.520 tough so just considerations on those points and we have a couple questions 05:33:04.520 --> 05:33:08.160 for you please yeah Christian back thank you chair thank you mr. height for your 05:33:08.160 --> 05:33:12.280 presentation a couple quick questions these lights are talking about it do 05:33:12.280 --> 05:33:16.200 they come from that warehouse they do not come from that warehouse over there 05:33:16.200 --> 05:33:21.040 the other night and so they have their existing warehouse there's one setting 05:33:21.040 --> 05:33:25.740 just to the south of it and the lights are on that building okay so but I assume 05:33:25.740 --> 05:33:29.960 if they're building a big trucking yard it's got to be well lit you can't have 05:33:29.960 --> 05:33:33.480 millions of dollars worth of trucking equipment out there without and I'm sure 05:33:33.480 --> 05:33:38.160 it will be but we do have requirements and this could be something that you 05:33:38.160 --> 05:33:41.280 could probably get with the city on so I don't want to go there but there are 05:33:41.280 --> 05:33:45.280 restrictions on light impacting neighborhood area so I definitely check 05:33:45.280 --> 05:33:49.000 on that and when this development goes up I'm sure Amy's aware of it that the 05:33:49.000 --> 05:33:56.120 lights can't you know have a negative impact but drainage I again don't see 05:33:56.120 --> 05:34:00.800 how drainage from that area could impact Regis state you do have that railroad 05:34:00.800 --> 05:34:05.840 track that's elevated so are you saying that drainage is coming from the 05:34:05.840 --> 05:34:08.920 commercial area on the other side of the railroad track I'll have to I'll have to 05:34:08.920 --> 05:34:12.960 verify that okay we do get a lot of drainage I don't I have never gone up 05:34:12.960 --> 05:34:16.880 into those fields to see where it gets through okay but it does come underneath 05:34:16.880 --> 05:34:21.120 the railroad track further to the north into the back of my property but not from 05:34:21.120 --> 05:34:25.400 this not from the facility okay but I'm assuming that property being at that 05:34:25.400 --> 05:34:29.200 elevation that water has to come our direction but maybe it's diverted to the 05:34:29.200 --> 05:34:35.360 south before it gets down to see the topography I have to I have a check and 05:34:35.360 --> 05:34:40.840 I believe I think you misquoted Amy they have nothing to do with Windsor Drive 05:34:40.840 --> 05:34:43.480 coming through there and I think that's the road you think about yes they 05:34:43.480 --> 05:34:47.880 weren't pushing for that and they don't anticipate using that if I understood her 05:34:47.880 --> 05:34:51.720 correctly but yes I understand your concern I would be concerned too right 05:34:51.720 --> 05:34:55.480 through finding out about this and doing the research I discovered the future 05:34:55.480 --> 05:35:01.680 plan for the roads definitely confront that when it comes through thank you so 05:35:01.680 --> 05:35:09.880 much thank you thank you and Dan I appreciate your pain this card is filled 05:35:09.880 --> 05:35:14.400 actually Rebecca height and Dan it's just like a Dan is an afterthought so 05:35:14.400 --> 05:35:20.040 Rebecca height I feel you but next up is Rebecca height if you're wanting to 05:35:20.040 --> 05:35:22.320 speak 05:35:22.320 --> 05:35:30.440 thank you for your time I'll be brief one thing I do want to touch base on is 05:35:30.440 --> 05:35:34.480 there's semi trucks that are coming through all the time and they're coming 05:35:34.480 --> 05:35:37.960 we're right on 380 and with the redevelopment of the construction we 05:35:37.960 --> 05:35:42.280 have rock haulers that come through very aggressively and then we have the freight 05:35:42.280 --> 05:35:46.080 trucks coming from the opposite side of the interstate where the industrial side 05:35:46.080 --> 05:35:50.600 is and they often get lost coming into our subdivision and that's one thing 05:35:50.600 --> 05:35:55.680 that I am concerned about because this is going to be moving trucks and it is 05:35:55.680 --> 05:35:59.920 going to be freight so how is this going to take place and what happens when they 05:35:59.920 --> 05:36:04.400 get lost in our subdivision we have a one well it's a two-lane road with no 05:36:04.400 --> 05:36:08.200 center stripe oftentimes they get stuck on our dead-end road because you'll 05:36:08.200 --> 05:36:12.200 notice on the red square we're the house with the pool and it's a dead-end road 05:36:12.200 --> 05:36:16.560 so oftentimes people get stuck on that they back up they go through our yard 05:36:16.560 --> 05:36:22.240 they tear up our yard it's not safe it's really not safe when we try to exit off 05:36:22.240 --> 05:36:27.960 of our subdivision on to 380 we're fighting the semi trucks and then I'm 05:36:27.960 --> 05:36:32.360 curious how are they going to get out of their area have you guys been in that 05:36:32.360 --> 05:36:38.440 area where the hotels are and where the industrial areas how are they going to 05:36:38.440 --> 05:36:42.480 have the mobility to come in and out and where is that flow of traffic going to 05:36:42.480 --> 05:36:46.480 come in and out so they're going to be accessing onto the access road where you 05:36:46.480 --> 05:36:50.400 have people coming in already where it's already backing up right there to get 05:36:50.400 --> 05:36:55.880 back on 35 but then if they come down 380 and they try to cross over where QT is 05:36:55.880 --> 05:37:01.680 to get on to Windsor that's going to be backed up where is the in and out going 05:37:01.680 --> 05:37:07.040 to be it's going to create massive traffic jams so that's just one thing I 05:37:07.040 --> 05:37:10.680 would like you to consider of what's going on in addition to the noise and 05:37:10.680 --> 05:37:14.560 the trucks and just overall I'm concerned about our safety to be honest 05:37:14.560 --> 05:37:19.640 with you and that's all thank you thank you very much 05:37:19.640 --> 05:37:27.880 the next card I have is Ann Smith 05:37:31.680 --> 05:37:44.920 I'm Ann Smith 2013 Cindy Lane so here's the deal you all have it's an exciting 05:37:44.920 --> 05:37:50.280 time in Denton I've been here since 1981 and I remember talking to a lot of 05:37:50.280 --> 05:37:54.680 people saying when will didn't grow when will we get bigger when will we get a 05:37:54.680 --> 05:38:01.360 big restaurant and then we got chilies we're done so anyway the thing is what's 05:38:01.360 --> 05:38:05.440 happening here tonight is we're talking about black and white stuff we're 05:38:05.440 --> 05:38:09.800 talking about zoning we're talking about streets and all that kind of stuff but I 05:38:09.800 --> 05:38:16.560 have the 2030 plan and my name is Ann Smith I'm not Nancy Pelosi I did read 05:38:16.560 --> 05:38:20.400 the 2030 plan right here and I have a few things that I want to point out 05:38:20.400 --> 05:38:25.840 because the main thing here in this book in this plan has pictures of people has 05:38:25.840 --> 05:38:31.960 names of people and it has the zoning people talking about people talking 05:38:31.960 --> 05:38:37.200 about Denton talking about vision and and that's what you guys are your vision 05:38:37.200 --> 05:38:42.440 your visionaries you protect us and everybody here we've been here since 630 05:38:42.440 --> 05:38:48.040 and everybody here has talked about safety and and pulling out onto a road 05:38:48.040 --> 05:38:53.760 and almost getting hit we had an 18 year old just about a month ago you know young 05:38:53.760 --> 05:38:58.880 driver and the light was green at 380 and Cindy Lane and so she starts to pull 05:38:58.880 --> 05:39:05.280 out she gets t-boned in the front not totally at her I mean this is 18 years 05:39:05.280 --> 05:39:10.920 old if it would be your daughter your granddaughter you'd have a stroke we have 05:39:10.920 --> 05:39:17.760 people in Ranch Estates that are elderly and these people we're fighting a lot of 05:39:17.760 --> 05:39:23.720 things in Ranch Estates and these people are becoming very anxious about do we 05:39:23.720 --> 05:39:28.560 have to continue to fight for where we live now another thing that we're doing 05:39:28.560 --> 05:39:34.480 in Ranch Estates we want to die there because it's about $7,500 a month just to 05:39:34.480 --> 05:39:39.000 get into assisted living and most of the people that are elderly own their home 05:39:39.000 --> 05:39:48.240 it's cheaper to die in your home and now even though this isn't part of 0023 what 05:39:48.240 --> 05:39:55.080 we're hearing and I do have a message from one of the council people that I 05:39:55.080 --> 05:40:01.280 emailed and talked to her about the Windsor connection and you see and she 05:40:01.280 --> 05:40:06.160 said I recall the discussion of Windsor so it's not just a figment of our 05:40:06.160 --> 05:40:13.000 imagination and the thing about Windsor is Windsor going across 35 down the 05:40:13.000 --> 05:40:19.080 pasture over the railroad track and it's going to go through their their home and 05:40:19.080 --> 05:40:25.440 Ranch Estates only has four streets and Hampton Road is the east-west street on 05:40:25.440 --> 05:40:30.040 the north side that it's it's not a two lane street it's a one and a half lane 05:40:30.040 --> 05:40:36.880 street and we have no sidewalks and no shoulders so when we take a walk it's in 05:40:36.880 --> 05:40:44.160 the street so the situation is that this development that they're wanting to do 05:40:44.160 --> 05:40:51.680 a rezoning is the trucks are going to be in a pasture and there the trucks can't 05:40:51.680 --> 05:40:58.040 go in a in a pasture without some kind of surface underneath them that's that 05:40:58.040 --> 05:41:05.160 will maintain their integrity so they can get in and out so is it cement or 05:41:05.160 --> 05:41:11.320 is it gravel and we are in a flood zone Ranch Estates is in a flood zone so the 05:41:11.320 --> 05:41:18.660 water is going to come down to us I know that the engineers can create pools of 05:41:18.660 --> 05:41:22.760 water and that kind of thing but you know how water works water will go to 05:41:22.760 --> 05:41:32.320 the lowest point anyway I'd like to close with some words from the 2030 plan 05:41:32.320 --> 05:41:38.880 Denton people say that the top strength in Denton is the character of Denton 05:41:38.880 --> 05:41:43.920 totally agree think about think about we want to be Austin isn't that what I've 05:41:43.920 --> 05:41:49.920 heard we want to be Austin well who do we want to be who do we want to be do 05:41:49.920 --> 05:41:56.520 what character do we want to have oh dang okay so I'll leave you with this 05:41:56.520 --> 05:42:00.920 then you don't get to choose where you're born but you do get to choose 05:42:00.920 --> 05:42:06.400 where you live and we choose to live here everybody in these seats tonight 05:42:06.400 --> 05:42:12.140 choose didn't because we want to serve we want to live and we want to raise our 05:42:12.140 --> 05:42:18.720 families here thank you miss it we we actually have a question 05:42:18.720 --> 05:42:22.760 okay back thank you chair thank you miss Smith for your presentation and your 05:42:22.760 --> 05:42:28.320 passion for the city didn't understand that and I'm you know heard several 05:42:28.320 --> 05:42:33.480 stories since text out widen 380 of the travesty that's on there and affected 05:42:33.480 --> 05:42:38.280 some of the ranch estate homeowners this particular development though I mean 05:42:38.280 --> 05:42:43.560 you're gonna have these kind of developments or that was zone has been 05:42:43.560 --> 05:42:48.200 zone like that that was part of the 2030 plan as the future land use map showed 05:42:48.200 --> 05:42:53.400 that being that way then so we knew that was going that area what we try and do 05:42:53.400 --> 05:42:57.920 here is make sure that in situations like yours that it doesn't reach over 05:42:57.920 --> 05:43:02.880 and to ranch estates and from what I've heard there shouldn't be that kind of 05:43:02.880 --> 05:43:06.960 connection now yeah Windsor if it comes across text that's gonna be involved with 05:43:06.960 --> 05:43:09.920 that too so that's gonna slow things down a little bit but that's a whole 05:43:09.920 --> 05:43:13.960 nother battle that we need to fight when it comes across and make sure that y'all 05:43:13.960 --> 05:43:19.440 don't suffer over there as a result of that but besides that this area that 05:43:19.440 --> 05:43:24.680 we're talking about rezoning the zoning is similar in nature and if we don't do 05:43:24.680 --> 05:43:27.920 this one you're gonna have something else there that's gonna have traffic 05:43:27.920 --> 05:43:31.640 getting to it from 380 and on the service road so I'm not sure what the 05:43:31.640 --> 05:43:37.400 it's about encroachment to it's it's about the noise it's about vision but 05:43:37.400 --> 05:43:41.000 it's and the water but it's also about encroachment because as you see in the 05:43:41.000 --> 05:43:45.520 pictures ranch estates is an island yeah everything around it is commercial and 05:43:45.520 --> 05:43:52.520 one question we had was that it seemed natural for these trucks to go on the 05:43:52.520 --> 05:43:59.200 south side of 380 where all that is commercial so I don't know why that 05:43:59.200 --> 05:44:04.240 didn't happen well when this comes back to us in the form of site plan and 05:44:04.240 --> 05:44:07.320 everything we'll definitely keep your thoughts in mind about lights and noise 05:44:07.320 --> 05:44:11.360 and dirt stuff like that and make sure that they're following the guidelines 05:44:11.360 --> 05:44:15.680 that we've set forth on that and encroachment and yes sir thank you thank 05:44:15.680 --> 05:44:35.400 you we have one more card it is for Jim Poryot Jim and his wife Peggy are in 05:44:35.400 --> 05:44:41.840 Panama City to the Denton planning and zoning committee from Jim and Peggy 05:44:41.840 --> 05:44:48.000 Perot 3801 Hampton we are asking miss Anne Smith to read our letter as we are 05:44:48.000 --> 05:44:52.360 out of town on the meeting date yesterday we received an alert this was 05:44:52.360 --> 05:44:57.200 dated December 28th yesterday yesterday we received an alert concerning the 05:44:57.200 --> 05:45:02.620 change of zoning requests for property adjacent to the railroad tracks we live 05:45:02.620 --> 05:45:06.400 at the corner of Marshall and Hampton and we are within 500 feet of the 05:45:06.400 --> 05:45:11.680 property in question we have lived here for 42 years the project name is 05:45:11.680 --> 05:45:16.840 Worthington track truck port we will refer to it as truck port we drove to 05:45:16.840 --> 05:45:21.600 the location and realize it is a truck port with well over a hundred trucks in 05:45:21.600 --> 05:45:26.920 three block in a three block area there are also 50 truck garages additional 05:45:26.920 --> 05:45:33.560 rented to various customers to truck maintenance why we didn't want to 05:45:33.560 --> 05:45:39.080 increase the truck traffic on University I think this is the really big important 05:45:39.080 --> 05:45:43.680 paragraph right here why would didn't want to increase the truck traffic on 05:45:43.680 --> 05:45:48.600 University Drive less than a mile from razor ranch and growing commercial 05:45:48.600 --> 05:45:53.680 properties such as Cavender's and Duluth Trading Company there are five hotels 05:45:53.680 --> 05:45:58.640 within a thousand feet of the truck port and we wonder if that would be a good 05:45:58.640 --> 05:46:03.400 neighbor for the hotels two weeks ago I and my family were involved in a 05:46:03.400 --> 05:46:09.880 collision eastbound on University Drive when an 18-wheeler moved from the center 05:46:09.880 --> 05:46:15.560 lane and collided with our car he was wanting to turn left onto Mesa Drive 05:46:15.560 --> 05:46:19.800 which this is what we're talking about his insurance is paying for the car 05:46:19.800 --> 05:46:26.560 damage but has been great it has been much worse than property damage please 05:46:26.560 --> 05:46:33.380 drive out to University Drive to Mesa and see the truck port also try to turn 05:46:33.380 --> 05:46:40.840 into in or out of the quick trip and you will see what our concern is about 05:46:40.840 --> 05:46:46.640 traffic in that location Ranch Estates is a popular residential neighborhood 05:46:46.640 --> 05:46:52.440 please keep it safe safety that safety would not include a truck port between 05:46:52.440 --> 05:47:01.000 us and the rest didn't thank you for reading that I do not have any other 05:47:01.000 --> 05:47:05.160 cards but this is public hearing so if anyone's wishing to speak you may 05:47:05.160 --> 05:47:13.600 certainly do so by stepping forward and if you could just state your name and 05:47:13.600 --> 05:47:16.360 address for the record 05:47:25.760 --> 05:47:33.440 my name is Paul Carr I live on three eight zero five Hampton Road now our 05:47:33.440 --> 05:47:38.040 home is probably not the oldest home out there but I think I am probably the 05:47:38.040 --> 05:47:43.520 oldest person out there with except my wife was six years older than not six 05:47:43.520 --> 05:47:52.400 months older than I am she turned 85 so we built a home in 1972 because we were 05:47:52.400 --> 05:48:01.440 enamored with the space we were we were looking for a place that had some some 05:48:01.440 --> 05:48:08.520 room for our children to grow we raised a family out there two daughters and a 05:48:08.520 --> 05:48:14.440 son who have now gone on two of the daughters still live in Denton our son 05:48:14.440 --> 05:48:25.240 chose the Navy route and is in the DC area you know I know this particular 05:48:25.240 --> 05:48:32.200 agenda item here doesn't really deal with what I came out here to understand 05:48:32.200 --> 05:48:40.640 was going to talk about and that was a Windsor Road I can't see any need for 05:48:40.640 --> 05:48:46.920 another road and access into Ranch Estates especially one from the east 05:48:46.920 --> 05:48:52.400 from an industrial area because I can visualize what's going to happen if that 05:48:52.400 --> 05:49:00.480 happens as I say I'm on Hampton Road and that would be a disaster for us and for 05:49:00.480 --> 05:49:08.440 I think probably at least eight or ten other homes on the Hampton area which is 05:49:08.440 --> 05:49:14.680 not it's not good the other thing though that I do really am concerned about is 05:49:14.680 --> 05:49:20.920 drainage from this new property I don't know if you all remember but several 05:49:20.920 --> 05:49:26.880 years ago there was a company who wanted to put several manufactured I wanted to 05:49:26.880 --> 05:49:32.400 build manufactured homes up in about the same area that we're talking about here 05:49:32.400 --> 05:49:39.480 there was a study made I think probably by your previous members of the count of 05:49:39.480 --> 05:49:47.240 the group here and they decided that no that would not be a good idea because of 05:49:47.240 --> 05:49:52.800 the drainage problem presented by all the concrete up there I can't see 05:49:52.800 --> 05:49:58.840 anything but concrete with this facility so I would implore upon you to please 05:49:58.840 --> 05:50:04.440 look at that aspect because if it once was determined that drainage is a 05:50:04.440 --> 05:50:10.960 problem I can not see that's been changed I can only see it being hindered 05:50:10.960 --> 05:50:23.320 with this thank you is there anyone else who's wishing to speak on this item 05:50:23.640 --> 05:50:34.680 Christian Smith thank you chair cast out question miss beset Amy is pervious 05:50:34.680 --> 05:50:39.720 surface correct yes and the developer have an idea of the making pervious 05:50:39.720 --> 05:50:45.520 surface by the way I put up gravel what kind of pervious surface of the yes I 05:50:45.520 --> 05:50:48.960 Lee Allison is our engineer on this project and he can speak more 05:50:48.960 --> 05:50:53.600 specifically to it I believe he's still here and but it's a flex base so it 05:50:53.600 --> 05:50:59.200 would not be gravel per se but it would be pervious there's a small if you look 05:50:59.200 --> 05:51:05.740 at the at the concept plan that's in front of you the area shaded in yellow is 05:51:05.740 --> 05:51:11.240 all that would be concrete and impervious that is correct okay if I could ask mr. 05:51:11.240 --> 05:51:15.220 Allison just to come down and just describe pervious surfaces for a quick 05:51:15.220 --> 05:51:21.280 second just to hopefully dispel the drainage issue we're worried about good 05:51:21.280 --> 05:51:29.040 evening Lee Allison without engineering group 2154 North Elm Street pervious and 05:51:29.040 --> 05:51:33.840 impervious a pervious service allows the water to penetrate the surface gravel 05:51:33.840 --> 05:51:39.960 grass paved creek things of that nature an impervious surface is very tight such 05:51:39.960 --> 05:51:44.760 as concrete or asphalt I think the biggest aspect here particularly with 05:51:44.760 --> 05:51:50.440 this site is the existing detention pond I had worked on another project on this 05:51:50.440 --> 05:51:54.220 exact same site we're going to put concrete on the whole area and that 05:51:54.220 --> 05:51:59.160 detention pond is already designed to accommodate this site fully developed 05:51:59.160 --> 05:52:08.480 condition the water does go for example that's where the pond is this area above 05:52:08.480 --> 05:52:12.800 this drains around and comes between our pond into here and then our pond 05:52:12.800 --> 05:52:18.160 releases and then it goes into the culvert under the railroad and across 05:52:18.160 --> 05:52:22.560 then there's a drainage channel here it goes through and somewhere in Rancho 05:52:22.560 --> 05:52:26.460 States there's a floodplain most of the water is coming from up above and that's 05:52:26.460 --> 05:52:30.880 where the real problem in that and that subdivision is but this detention pond 05:52:30.880 --> 05:52:34.840 was designed to accommodate this entire area in yellow fully developed okay 05:52:34.840 --> 05:52:41.680 thank you that helped mr. Beck so thank you chair so the water that drains out 05:52:41.680 --> 05:52:46.180 of the detention pond goes into an underground culvert no sir it's above 05:52:46.180 --> 05:52:55.000 ground it is above ground this little closer but that's a depressed pond right 05:52:55.000 --> 05:53:00.200 it goes over ground then it goes through a pipe here underneath the railroad under 05:53:00.200 --> 05:53:04.920 the railroad and then it goes into an open stock tank here then when it leaves 05:53:04.920 --> 05:53:09.240 the stock tank it comes out into a channel that comes across here and gets 05:53:09.240 --> 05:53:12.640 into this floodplain and goes south so it's all above ground though it's not 05:53:12.640 --> 05:53:18.920 it's all about there's not a storm sewer system does that flood over does that 05:53:18.920 --> 05:53:26.120 handle the water does I have not really studied this area it's a shade it's a 05:53:26.120 --> 05:53:31.240 zone maybe Amy can answer that we okay got an attention because that's a 05:53:31.240 --> 05:53:34.240 legitimate concern I was thinking it was underground but it's above ground yeah 05:53:34.240 --> 05:53:40.360 can this can these I can pull up the floodplain map and kind of show you how 05:53:40.360 --> 05:53:51.880 the water trap is a little bit if we could hold the audience counts back so 05:53:51.880 --> 05:53:57.240 let the applicant and then if we have questions we can pull you back down to 05:53:57.240 --> 05:53:59.480 the mic 05:54:06.040 --> 05:54:10.680 okay maybe I just hit the wrong one okay 05:54:10.680 --> 05:54:31.880 maybe I can't pull up the floodplain now before you but let me just give you kind 05:54:31.880 --> 05:54:38.800 of a general and the the area above ranch estates you'll see there's a pond 05:54:38.800 --> 05:54:44.400 up there and the floodplain cuts through that pond and down through ranch estates 05:54:44.400 --> 05:54:52.520 right basically through the middle can we turn the camera on 05:54:55.920 --> 05:55:13.600 okay no you're right so you can see that it is and it comes from the north and 05:55:13.600 --> 05:55:19.240 comes down through the middle of the neighborhood my understanding from our 05:55:19.240 --> 05:55:23.560 neighborhood meeting is that the pond that is north of ranch estates was added 05:55:23.560 --> 05:55:29.960 sometime in the last few years and the intent of that pond was to control the 05:55:29.960 --> 05:55:34.320 flooding of ranch estates and we heard from the neighbors that it has been 05:55:34.320 --> 05:55:40.880 improved since that point in time and that our site and as Lee has mentioned 05:55:40.880 --> 05:55:46.840 has a regional detention on it that's intended to hold enough water that if we 05:55:46.840 --> 05:55:51.840 paved that entire site it still would not cause flooding issues and we intend 05:55:51.840 --> 05:55:56.400 to only pave a very small percentage of it does that does that help address that 05:55:56.400 --> 05:56:00.360 yeah it really is gonna depend upon what kind of rainfall we have whether it 05:56:00.360 --> 05:56:07.560 floods or not they're in the floodplain so it's always a risk that there's okay 05:56:07.560 --> 05:56:12.640 you said the applicant is here too that we can talk about the trucks I do yes 05:56:12.640 --> 05:56:17.280 the developer and owner are here okay and come down and speak about the the 05:56:17.280 --> 05:56:22.640 policies related to the truck parking with with the chairs permission floors 05:56:22.640 --> 05:56:28.680 yours thank you chair the question I'd asked earlier about trucks parking there 05:56:28.680 --> 05:56:32.440 and leaving their engines running can you address that yeah this this property 05:56:32.440 --> 05:56:37.760 we as she stated own the current truck ports property we manage the property 05:56:37.760 --> 05:56:43.040 ourselves those are rented to some of them are rented to a company that has a 05:56:43.040 --> 05:56:46.540 facility right across the street the parking spaces are in it some of the 05:56:46.540 --> 05:56:49.800 parking some of the truck parking spaces right at the rear portion of our 05:56:49.800 --> 05:56:55.080 project okay are rented to that company and then and they just stack trucks in 05:56:55.080 --> 05:56:59.840 there that are staged for work at their other facility and then they maybe go 05:56:59.840 --> 05:57:03.000 back there before they're sent to haul some are rented to individual truck 05:57:03.000 --> 05:57:07.000 drivers who live in live in or near Denton and they can't park those trucks 05:57:07.000 --> 05:57:11.720 at their home right and so they they leave a vehicle parked there they come 05:57:11.720 --> 05:57:15.040 there they park the truck and leave in their their vehicles until they have 05:57:15.040 --> 05:57:19.620 another truck to another route to go on often times they aren't even hauling a 05:57:19.620 --> 05:57:25.400 trailer it's just the track of portion of the so the norm is that there can you 05:57:25.400 --> 05:57:30.120 please say your name sorry Alex pain I'm the owner of access realty group also 05:57:30.120 --> 05:57:33.920 one of the owners of this property and at Northbridge management is our is our 05:57:33.920 --> 05:57:38.400 management arm that manages the property thank you chair for bringing it out so 05:57:38.400 --> 05:57:45.240 there is there an issue then with motors running mostly we don't I mean I don't 05:57:45.240 --> 05:57:49.000 know that we specifically have anything that states they can't can or can't stay 05:57:49.000 --> 05:57:53.440 in the property I don't think we've found it to be an issue it's not a truck 05:57:53.440 --> 05:57:58.080 it's not a truck stop or you might find trucks leaving them they're running and 05:57:58.080 --> 05:58:02.120 sleeping in there we've never heard that that's being done on our property would 05:58:02.120 --> 05:58:07.120 there be any consideration on your part to make sure this didn't happen when they 05:58:07.120 --> 05:58:10.960 open this up I don't want to put any restrictions on you but yeah I mean we'd 05:58:10.960 --> 05:58:14.400 certainly be willing to put something in our lease that these can't leave in 05:58:14.400 --> 05:58:19.040 general yeah you don't you don't stay there overnight or leave them it running 05:58:19.040 --> 05:58:23.280 for extended period of time I mean that's a that's a management issue that 05:58:23.280 --> 05:58:28.160 we'd be willing to add I don't know if that's a zoning related matter but okay 05:58:28.160 --> 05:58:31.880 just thought I'd bring it up to because there's a little ginger here okay well 05:58:31.880 --> 05:58:37.160 thank you sir yeah real quick Alex while you're up here I have two questions that 05:58:37.160 --> 05:58:43.640 I don't think have been answered is is the operation at 24-hour come and go or 05:58:43.640 --> 05:58:46.840 is it gated at what's the hours of operation there's a gate and I'm sure 05:58:46.840 --> 05:58:51.240 that our clients have the right to come and go at any hour of the night just 05:58:51.240 --> 05:58:54.800 because of the nature of their business if they are individual truck drivers they 05:58:54.800 --> 05:58:59.600 may get in from a long haul you know at four in the morning and so I don't think 05:58:59.600 --> 05:59:03.440 that we could restrict that but it's not I think some of the concerns that I've 05:59:03.440 --> 05:59:07.320 heard about the noise and and lighting are from our neighbor to our south 05:59:07.320 --> 05:59:12.200 which is Ed's Co. manufacturing and they run three shifts in a day and do keep 05:59:12.200 --> 05:59:15.600 late hours and I have heard that you can create some loud boom but it's also 05:59:15.600 --> 05:59:19.880 zoned heavy industrial our properties zone light or what we're requesting is 05:59:19.880 --> 05:59:24.600 light industrial and and that's really only if only an issue that we were 05:59:24.600 --> 05:59:29.400 requesting that zoning because it's we could go build a commercial parking lot 05:59:29.400 --> 05:59:33.840 there with our current zoning that's an allowable allowable use to operate a 05:59:33.840 --> 05:59:38.040 commercial parking lot the reason that we requested a zoning change is because 05:59:38.040 --> 05:59:43.040 we can do it in the form where it's a storage use and not have to require us 05:59:43.040 --> 05:59:49.480 to build to make the site 100% concrete we want to put pervious surface there 05:59:49.480 --> 05:59:54.800 it's more economical for us and then it also improves our drainage and so we 05:59:54.800 --> 05:59:58.600 could operate a concrete commercial parking lot there because we have one 05:59:58.600 --> 06:00:04.000 now and we could build we could you know the current zoning allows for 24 06:00:04.000 --> 06:00:08.800 operations such as a hotel as you can see that those exist to our to our East 06:00:08.800 --> 06:00:13.520 that so we're not proposing those types of uses that actually would impact more 06:00:13.520 --> 06:00:16.600 their neighborhood work because some of the folks that came to our neighborhood 06:00:16.600 --> 06:00:19.760 meeting said well here's what I can see and they're showing me pictures which I 06:00:19.760 --> 06:00:24.960 saw a three-story hotel you could see a clip of one of our buildings but this 06:00:24.960 --> 06:00:29.720 site to the north which is really the site in question that site is I just 06:00:29.720 --> 06:00:33.880 measured it's from the back edge of where we're going to develop to the 06:00:33.880 --> 06:00:39.680 nearest neighbor it's about 650 feet away and so I just really feel like with 06:00:39.680 --> 06:00:45.080 that and our you know proposed buffer there's gonna be very limited impact 06:00:45.080 --> 06:00:51.080 whatsoever on the neighborhood the other question I had is based on the current 06:00:51.080 --> 06:00:55.600 operations and the future is the expectation that all exiting traffic 06:00:55.600 --> 06:01:00.280 would just go out Schuller to the the access road there I mean that's the 06:01:00.280 --> 06:01:04.440 that's the straightest distance and easiest route to get to I-35 if I'm a if 06:01:04.440 --> 06:01:08.000 I'm a truck driver unless I'm going westbound on 380 I wouldn't see any 06:01:08.000 --> 06:01:13.480 reason to go down Mesa Road even still I might still go out to Schuller to the 06:01:13.480 --> 06:01:18.440 service road just because it's an easier an easier shot as far as speaking to the 06:01:18.440 --> 06:01:23.180 the concerns about connectivity you have to understand sometimes mobility plans 06:01:23.180 --> 06:01:27.760 get created and they're just very simple let me just draw the quickest route 06:01:27.760 --> 06:01:32.360 between A and B and they don't really take into account existing conditions if 06:01:32.360 --> 06:01:37.580 you were to align our road to tie into Hampton Road or to align Windsor Road 06:01:37.580 --> 06:01:40.880 where they would propose it to come over and get down to Hampton Road which I 06:01:40.880 --> 06:01:45.640 don't know that's to me is news to us it benefits us in no way no one from our 06:01:45.640 --> 06:01:50.560 ownership group said we were in support of that and so it just really doesn't 06:01:50.560 --> 06:01:54.920 it doesn't make or break our project whatsoever again it's all it's news to 06:01:54.920 --> 06:01:58.760 us the before it to do that it would have to cut through our detention bond 06:01:58.760 --> 06:02:02.040 you know in order to do that I don't think they would I don't think they 06:02:02.040 --> 06:02:06.800 would want to actually construct it in that way and so you know I really think 06:02:06.800 --> 06:02:10.400 it's a non-issue there I appreciate the response and as we just saw from the 06:02:10.400 --> 06:02:14.680 previous item that mobility plan is changeable Hickory Creek looks to be 06:02:14.680 --> 06:02:19.080 changing as of this evening we do have this looks like one more question 06:02:19.080 --> 06:02:25.340 Mr. Sanchez and you do have trucks already parked there in the back right 06:02:25.340 --> 06:02:32.560 yes so that's that's how many trucks 50 50 there's 50 spaces 50 spaces and if I 06:02:32.560 --> 06:02:36.320 if I remember correctly there was also some trucks already parked in that lot 06:02:36.320 --> 06:02:40.840 yeah so that we don't own that lot the current property owner I think made a 06:02:40.840 --> 06:02:44.640 deal with one of the guys across the street to just put some trucks there but 06:02:44.640 --> 06:02:48.220 it's it's not something that we're involved with I think it's my 06:02:48.220 --> 06:02:50.680 understanding from talking to the property owner that they're terminating 06:02:50.680 --> 06:02:56.160 that that arrangement until such time that something gets worked out I guess I 06:02:56.160 --> 06:03:01.720 guess my thinking is I mean 50 trucks I've already been there and I don't know 06:03:01.720 --> 06:03:04.960 how long they've been there but they've been you know people have been coming in 06:03:04.960 --> 06:03:10.520 dropping them off and I don't know how how what impact has had on on the 06:03:10.520 --> 06:03:14.360 neighbors but it isn't it's already been there that use has already been there 06:03:14.360 --> 06:03:21.440 right so I don't I guess my point is there hadn't been that much noise or 06:03:21.440 --> 06:03:27.960 whatever as since nobody has been called or reported of we've never heard from 06:03:27.960 --> 06:03:33.720 anyone yeah of that issue being that being an issue yeah I'd like to just add 06:03:33.720 --> 06:03:38.880 if you know I think time to rebut some concerns or questions but I think there 06:03:38.880 --> 06:03:44.040 was someone that mentioned Margie mentioned a restricting an electrical 06:03:44.040 --> 06:03:47.880 substation we'd certainly be okay with that I mean we have no obviously no 06:03:47.880 --> 06:03:56.960 desire to do that so we would we would restrict that use no problem let's see 06:03:56.960 --> 06:04:01.520 I think I hit on I think I really hit on most of the items and I don't want to 06:04:01.520 --> 06:04:06.400 reiterate but that the drainage is over improved for what we're doing and so I 06:04:06.400 --> 06:04:12.240 really hope that I do understand their concern between the between the pond 06:04:12.240 --> 06:04:15.280 that was pointed out to the north of that subdivision to that subdivision I 06:04:15.280 --> 06:04:20.160 think has improved as well as the widening of 380 there was a bridge there 06:04:20.160 --> 06:04:24.400 that created a kind of a stop damn and that when that bridge was widened I 06:04:24.400 --> 06:04:27.440 think that's alleviated some of the backup that can occur into their 06:04:27.440 --> 06:04:31.760 neighborhood so I mean I I would expect that maybe things are better I don't know 06:04:31.760 --> 06:04:35.320 I don't live there but I can assure you that we have no intent of of making I 06:04:35.320 --> 06:04:41.680 know the issue worse and quite frankly state law prevents us from doing so and 06:04:41.680 --> 06:04:45.360 just to just to speak to the neighborhood I'm a local business owner 06:04:45.360 --> 06:04:50.320 a resident of Denton my business is in downtown Denton we do quality we try to 06:04:50.320 --> 06:04:54.120 do quality work work on quality projects and not be someone that's just going to 06:04:54.120 --> 06:04:58.000 come in and and do something in this town to make a quick buck and exit we 06:04:58.000 --> 06:05:02.560 want to be able to see these folks that you know these meetings or at the 06:05:02.560 --> 06:05:07.640 restaurants and just say hey we want to be good neighbors and so I really would 06:05:07.640 --> 06:05:12.280 would urge you to support our plan which is just you know trying to in some ways 06:05:12.280 --> 06:05:18.560 improve and get things that really shouldn't be imposing on neighborhoods 06:05:18.560 --> 06:05:23.720 there's a there's a trucker that parks on on 377 across from my neighborhood go 06:05:23.720 --> 06:05:27.240 heading towards Argyle he leaves his truck park there on textile right away 06:05:27.240 --> 06:05:30.840 you know leave his car there's doing I don't know how he gets away with it but 06:05:30.840 --> 06:05:34.720 these guys have to have somewhere to leave their trucks and they kind of put 06:05:34.720 --> 06:05:38.080 them anywhere they can and unless these kinds of facilities exist for them and 06:05:38.080 --> 06:05:44.160 so anyway if there's no other questions I do not see thank you Julie I have a 06:05:44.160 --> 06:05:52.900 couple questions for you first is more confirmation when this comes back for 06:05:52.900 --> 06:05:57.200 preliminary final platting they will have to meet the city's requirement for 06:05:57.200 --> 06:06:03.200 drainage and attention of water to what their plans develop so they cannot 06:06:03.200 --> 06:06:08.240 develop unless they meet all technical specs to make sure any drainage impact 06:06:08.240 --> 06:06:12.600 they have is considered by them correct yes sir it will be reviewed by your 06:06:12.600 --> 06:06:15.840 engineering department and make sure that it meets all of engineering found 06:06:15.840 --> 06:06:21.920 that based on the development there's an overflow into that that culvert under 06:06:21.920 --> 06:06:26.840 the railroad that would have to be fixed before building absolutely okay and then 06:06:26.840 --> 06:06:30.760 the other question I had is this question I'm gonna just ask for an 06:06:30.760 --> 06:06:38.800 educated guess the Windsor extension we are 15 years out 20 years out will it 06:06:38.800 --> 06:06:43.640 ever happen I don't know what the timeline is but I talked to our I talked 06:06:43.640 --> 06:06:48.800 to Preetam our transportation engineer about where that was gonna connect so 06:06:48.800 --> 06:06:55.760 here's Windsor here and of course my map doesn't provide me with so Mosh branch 06:06:55.760 --> 06:07:00.320 is about in this location right here it's intended to actually connect with 06:07:00.320 --> 06:07:06.120 Mosh branch or track to the north so it is not intended or planned to connect 06:07:06.120 --> 06:07:12.840 with Hampton so so hopefully that helps answer that question I just I don't know 06:07:12.840 --> 06:07:18.960 what the timing is on it I didn't expect you to but I kind of wishful thinking 06:07:18.960 --> 06:07:24.760 yeah I think yeah as Richard said not anytime in the near future because you 06:07:24.760 --> 06:07:29.320 have to expand 30 that it's a mess that's all I have I don't see any other 06:07:29.320 --> 06:07:34.060 questions at this point and I want to this time officially close the public 06:07:34.060 --> 06:07:38.720 hearing kind of extended that a little bit and with that I will open up the 06:07:38.720 --> 06:07:44.200 dais to a motion or discussion Commissioner Smith I'm gonna move to 06:07:44.200 --> 06:07:50.360 approve this item it looks pretty clear that exits would be toward to Shuler and 06:07:50.360 --> 06:07:55.800 then on to the exit to the access ramp from there the future land use map fits 06:07:55.800 --> 06:08:03.120 fits the suitability for this we know that the with the city code for site 06:08:03.120 --> 06:08:08.680 plan and final plotting that the the light pollution and the drainage items 06:08:08.680 --> 06:08:15.480 would be addressed so I have I've got nothing to even point out that could 06:08:15.480 --> 06:08:21.160 possibly hold against the applicant before this project no matter when the 06:08:21.160 --> 06:08:25.520 windage is developed it's not it's not their responsibility and then I do feel 06:08:25.520 --> 06:08:30.960 for you guys in the neighborhood I really do it's you know the the traffic 06:08:30.960 --> 06:08:35.080 issues you guys have a 3d I grew up out at Naylor in 380 so I'm basically like 06:08:35.080 --> 06:08:40.640 you but just on the other side of town and I almost got got killed by to my 06:08:40.640 --> 06:08:44.160 trucks probably on a weekly basis getting out of Prairie House that area 06:08:44.160 --> 06:08:50.240 and so it's just not the applicant's fault and something needs to be done 06:08:50.240 --> 06:08:55.680 about it but it's not it's not mr. Payne or mrs. sets responsibility to do it so 06:08:55.680 --> 06:09:02.880 I will move to approve it will accept the applicants offer to memorialize a 06:09:02.880 --> 06:09:09.440 type-c landscape buffer on the backside of that as well as a point Commissioner 06:09:09.440 --> 06:09:14.880 Ellis suggested having a overlay restriction eliminating the use of an 06:09:14.880 --> 06:09:19.160 electric substation are you open to a friendly amendment to amend I'll amend 06:09:19.160 --> 06:09:24.680 to make my motion to approve the me approve the item with the type-c 06:09:24.680 --> 06:09:29.040 landscape buffer on the backside per the applicants requests as well as remove 06:09:29.040 --> 06:09:34.480 the electric substations per Commissioner Ellis's request thank you we 06:09:34.480 --> 06:09:39.880 have a first customer back second and I'd like an opportunity to lay out my 06:09:39.880 --> 06:09:46.160 reasons why and I can do that now or go for it okay yours I again thank you all 06:09:46.160 --> 06:09:49.600 for coming down and we do empathize with what you're going through there I've 06:09:49.600 --> 06:09:55.680 been here since 74 and I remember when raised ranch and what was the school 06:09:55.680 --> 06:09:59.640 that was out there was pretty much all the yeah so and thank you was pretty 06:09:59.640 --> 06:10:04.800 much all there was out there and I feel for ranch estates now because it is 06:10:04.800 --> 06:10:09.380 located in an area where it's changing and not necessarily to y'all's benefit 06:10:09.380 --> 06:10:13.200 and so we're gonna be doing battles with developers to help protect that 06:10:13.200 --> 06:10:17.040 because it is an area that's been here a while needs to stay there needs to be 06:10:17.040 --> 06:10:23.000 protected and the PNC is gonna make sure that it it doesn't get encroached upon 06:10:23.000 --> 06:10:28.920 to the point where it's hazardous but the issues that y'all pointed out the 06:10:28.920 --> 06:10:36.080 drainage the lights and noise and Windsor Road those are all things not 06:10:36.080 --> 06:10:40.640 associated with this applicant or this developer those are totally different 06:10:40.640 --> 06:10:47.520 things and attached to them and so it's hard to hold them accountable for that I 06:10:47.520 --> 06:10:53.760 would recommend that issues where trucks are driving into raise a ranch and the 06:10:53.760 --> 06:10:59.360 light issue with that one 24/7 three three shift that you get with proper city 06:10:59.360 --> 06:11:04.400 people and complain because there's room for that they could probably put up some 06:11:04.400 --> 06:11:09.120 signs to discourage any kind of trailer tractor to come down Hampton Road down 06:11:09.120 --> 06:11:14.480 there how much that help I don't know but I'm gonna have to go along with this 06:11:14.480 --> 06:11:19.480 too that area was zoned for this type of thing and it's been that way for a while 06:11:19.480 --> 06:11:27.800 so thanks Chris Ellis thank you chair just a couple quick comments thank you 06:11:27.800 --> 06:11:31.960 all for for sharing your concerns and your concerns are valid the request on 06:11:31.960 --> 06:11:37.000 the table is reasonable for what already exists in the zoning that's currently on 06:11:37.000 --> 06:11:40.520 the property and what's currently happening with the property it doesn't 06:11:40.520 --> 06:11:43.920 mean your concerns are not valid and I will bring something up in concluding 06:11:43.920 --> 06:11:48.480 items so we can get some of your mobile mobility questions answered so thank you 06:11:48.480 --> 06:11:53.960 all for wasting your concern Commissioner Sanchez yes I would also like to thank 06:11:53.960 --> 06:12:01.480 you for for expressing your concerns because because of the rest that when 06:12:01.480 --> 06:12:05.120 you drive up Mesa Drive in that whole area it's already pretty well developed 06:12:05.120 --> 06:12:09.320 and when I was looking at it I didn't see a whole lot of issues I also went 06:12:09.320 --> 06:12:13.320 into your into the area into your neighborhood to see what it looked like 06:12:13.320 --> 06:12:22.160 and as Mr. Payne said I did see just the tops of his warehouses and so there is 06:12:22.160 --> 06:12:27.960 some other buildings there that you know kind of sorers you know sore on the eyes 06:12:27.960 --> 06:12:33.340 but but his his buildings as I as I looked out that direction I didn't they 06:12:33.340 --> 06:12:39.680 weren't that prominent because of the railroad track so I'm gonna voting I'm 06:12:39.680 --> 06:12:47.360 gonna vote for it and but I'd just like to say that I understand your concerns 06:12:47.360 --> 06:12:51.960 noise pollution but then I also saw the railroad track there and I thought wow 06:12:51.960 --> 06:13:00.200 that's you know that's a lot of noise so thank you so first and a second the 06:13:00.200 --> 06:13:06.400 only points I would make is I used to live at Selwyn strangely enough my best 06:13:06.400 --> 06:13:09.720 friend through high school lived on Lariat and so I was in Rancho States 06:13:09.720 --> 06:13:14.280 every weekend and so I think it's a it's a kind of a hidden gem of our city 06:13:14.280 --> 06:13:19.160 that's often forgotten because of its isolation but I appreciate all coming out 06:13:19.160 --> 06:13:23.080 and fighting for the character and the values of it it seems appropriate 06:13:23.080 --> 06:13:27.240 across the railroad tracks to have the the current use be expanded by by a lot 06:13:27.240 --> 06:13:31.720 so I'm before it however still I'm interested in commissioners all this 06:13:31.720 --> 06:13:36.240 mobility thoughts on on what she has to say about making sure that major 06:13:36.240 --> 06:13:40.480 thoroughfares and great access to your neighborhood is still protected from the 06:13:40.480 --> 06:13:46.040 north but to Commissioner Beck's point 380 is a disservice to that neighborhood 06:13:46.040 --> 06:13:51.000 and I don't know what the solution is there it's it's text dot related but I 06:13:51.000 --> 06:13:55.280 wish you the best and fighting for for some better safety there with that 06:13:55.280 --> 06:13:58.640 because we have a first and a second for approval of this I will call for a vote 06:13:58.640 --> 06:14:01.000 on the board 06:14:06.240 --> 06:14:17.040 motion carries 6-0 with one recusal congratulations at this time I'll 06:14:17.040 --> 06:14:21.400 invite Commissioner Cole back in for concluding item if he is in the hallway 06:14:21.400 --> 06:14:29.640 and can hear me if not can someone's peek out Christian backer someone 06:14:36.240 --> 06:14:40.080 the next item for business is our plan and zoning project matrix I'm going to 06:14:40.080 --> 06:14:45.160 first turn it over to Richard and then Commissioner Ellis is on the board 06:14:45.160 --> 06:14:56.520 sorry just touch on a couple items as our list is whittling whittling down we 06:14:56.520 --> 06:15:01.440 have Roman slated to come next meeting if you remember we had moved that I 06:15:01.440 --> 06:15:04.600 think you had requested it so we want to make sure you were your tenants for 06:15:04.600 --> 06:15:09.800 that I'm trying to get pre-tim here on information on roundabouts it sounds 06:15:09.800 --> 06:15:14.760 like we may want to maybe perhaps broaden that and so I'll talk to him 06:15:14.760 --> 06:15:20.440 about I know we had him talk in one instance on transportation we may want 06:15:20.440 --> 06:15:26.880 to just round that out no pun intended and and and and push that date I'd like 06:15:26.880 --> 06:15:34.440 to I know we had the already 5x conversation geared more towards kind of 06:15:34.440 --> 06:15:38.160 out where we were just talking out west of University I think it might be more 06:15:38.160 --> 06:15:42.280 beneficial if we really look at this holistically and and start to talk about 06:15:42.280 --> 06:15:47.480 what what areas we should really look at as being maintaining rural and just 06:15:47.480 --> 06:15:51.120 looking at it maybe a little bit differently but also in conjunction with 06:15:51.120 --> 06:15:57.880 the annexation process if you remember we had the Creekside pre annexation I 06:15:57.880 --> 06:16:01.320 think it was the first one the city ever did and I know when that rezoning came 06:16:01.320 --> 06:16:05.320 here you know a number of the commissioners felt sort of backed into 06:16:05.320 --> 06:16:10.080 the corner of hey we really never had any say in this we are getting more of 06:16:10.080 --> 06:16:15.240 these now coming in these requests in one regard at least my opinion is I 06:16:15.240 --> 06:16:20.060 think it's it's nice because we kind of know what to expect rather than having 06:16:20.060 --> 06:16:23.600 these large parcels annexed into the city and then we get into these big 06:16:23.600 --> 06:16:27.840 battles so at least we can kind of know up front and also plan and and look at 06:16:27.840 --> 06:16:31.920 what those future impacts can be even before we would agree to even annex these 06:16:31.920 --> 06:16:37.400 properties and so I'd kind of like to frame that conversation in that regard 06:16:37.400 --> 06:16:43.520 the only other I wanted to mention I know I know we've talked about it with 06:16:43.520 --> 06:16:50.000 Denton ISD and we're starting to include some of those if you notice at 06:16:50.000 --> 06:16:55.520 least in this this the items tonight we included the student generation numbers 06:16:55.520 --> 06:17:03.640 Julie did reach out to to ISD and requested that they attend maybe one of 06:17:03.640 --> 06:17:09.080 our work sessions and just talk about how they how they calculate student 06:17:09.080 --> 06:17:14.900 generation rates and sort of some of their expansion plans and so I know they 06:17:14.900 --> 06:17:18.440 have a consultant a system with that so Julie's sort of handling that she's sort 06:17:18.440 --> 06:17:23.120 of the the the ISD liaison at least in our department so I just wanted to let 06:17:23.120 --> 06:17:26.760 you know that that's kind of in the works and one other item because I know 06:17:26.760 --> 06:17:33.720 we had a couple of rezoning tonight one of the items that that we that was 06:17:33.720 --> 06:17:41.040 brought up last night at council was was having a looking at a cost benefit 06:17:41.040 --> 06:17:46.440 analysis as part of these rezoning applications and so just sort of kind of 06:17:46.440 --> 06:17:50.160 a prelude to that you know that's something we'll we're trying to again 06:17:50.160 --> 06:17:56.840 build on what we have now a lot of this I think once we get the the DDC update 06:17:56.840 --> 06:18:01.280 there's gonna be a number of things changed with respect to just the two 06:18:01.280 --> 06:18:05.560 criteria that we have now for rezoning making sure we look at it a little bit 06:18:05.560 --> 06:18:10.520 more broader and and provide a little bit more of a thorough analysis again 06:18:10.520 --> 06:18:13.680 making sure we're doing what's what we're required to do with it within the 06:18:13.680 --> 06:18:18.240 code and so you'll start to see that and one thing we've been really trying to 06:18:18.240 --> 06:18:21.920 push is making sure we get more to that capacity to serve so we really have an 06:18:21.920 --> 06:18:25.480 idea of what what they're what they're producing or what we're what they're 06:18:25.480 --> 06:18:31.240 taking whether it's generating sewer water and whether or not we have that 06:18:31.240 --> 06:18:34.000 capacity and where we're heading so that's kind of just where we're heading 06:18:34.000 --> 06:18:38.080 down the line because I know that was one of the concerns from from that first 06:18:38.080 --> 06:18:43.720 item but that was all ahead awesome thanks for the update Christian Alice thank 06:18:43.720 --> 06:18:48.640 you chair okay so in light of some discussion today can can I request that 06:18:48.640 --> 06:18:53.640 the city maybe reach out to Ranch Estates and plan a meeting about future mobility 06:18:53.640 --> 06:18:58.360 through there when I looked up the map earlier you know well we were having the 06:18:58.360 --> 06:19:01.600 discussion I mean clearly there is a plan for some of the roads in there to 06:19:01.600 --> 06:19:07.440 connect and reach out to 35 I think it would benefit greatly if the city was 06:19:07.440 --> 06:19:12.960 proactive with that you know vocal group of the community and give them some kind 06:19:12.960 --> 06:19:19.480 of information about what what that future is please then as far as stuff 06:19:19.480 --> 06:19:26.040 for us also in light of conversation today can we get a emailed copy of 06:19:26.040 --> 06:19:32.200 current capital improvements happening right now I know it's been a while but 06:19:32.200 --> 06:19:37.000 we've had a list of roads that you know are on the plan or currently under 06:19:37.000 --> 06:19:40.720 construction currently being what have you it's been a long time since we've 06:19:40.720 --> 06:19:46.000 seen an update like that so that's one request and then in the near future can 06:19:46.000 --> 06:19:54.200 we get maybe engineering in one of our work sessions to discuss what is 06:19:54.200 --> 06:19:59.240 upcoming with road improvements you know I don't know how that can be done I know 06:19:59.240 --> 06:20:05.080 we kind of touched on that but I just I just want facts like hey this is what's 06:20:05.080 --> 06:20:09.440 coming down the pike in the next five years you know this has been approved or 06:20:09.440 --> 06:20:14.640 you know just some kind of a list we can have so because this is going to come up 06:20:14.640 --> 06:20:18.840 again it comes up every time and I just don't think we have the working 06:20:18.840 --> 06:20:24.040 knowledge of what engineering has right and and I think that was sort of that 06:20:24.040 --> 06:20:28.480 first step even that the Sherman the Sherman study that we did where rather 06:20:28.480 --> 06:20:31.520 than engineering off doing their analysis we're doing our analysis where 06:20:31.520 --> 06:20:36.440 we actually it's kind of nice we're working together and starter start 06:20:36.440 --> 06:20:40.000 out starting planning and really sitting down and saying you know how do we want 06:20:40.000 --> 06:20:45.560 this area to develop it is it's a it's a fresh piece of paper to start on but 06:20:45.560 --> 06:20:50.600 that might take a little time but yes but also I mean it's we definitely have 06:20:50.600 --> 06:20:55.680 there's things in the future works we just need to know about them okay thanks 06:20:55.680 --> 06:21:01.280 Christian back thank you chair and maybe we need an update on the mobility 06:21:01.280 --> 06:21:05.480 plan - I think the last time we had is when Andrew and I first joined the PNC so 06:21:05.480 --> 06:21:09.760 a lot of members haven't I've got an old map of that that shows everything and 06:21:09.760 --> 06:21:13.120 some of that's probably changed so it would be good if we were all updated on 06:21:13.120 --> 06:21:16.840 that so when we get confronted with these kind of issues like Windsor will 06:21:16.840 --> 06:21:20.960 be a little bit more on top so maybe a presentation on the mobility plan yeah 06:21:20.960 --> 06:21:24.760 because what what they're what they're really looking at is really I'm kind of 06:21:24.760 --> 06:21:28.640 going back to this master thoroughfare plan part of that if you remember the 06:21:28.640 --> 06:21:35.080 the updates to the criteria manual not this last one the last year's where they 06:21:35.080 --> 06:21:39.360 changed the the right-of-way sections and really went to more context sensitive 06:21:39.360 --> 06:21:45.560 design and so rather than having a bike plan over here this mobility plan here 06:21:45.560 --> 06:21:50.440 really bringing those under the under the umbrella of one of one plan and so I 06:21:50.440 --> 06:21:54.240 think you'll see things are starting it's kind of exciting they're starting to 06:21:54.240 --> 06:21:57.480 come together so we're looking at updating this master thoroughfare plan 06:21:57.480 --> 06:22:06.200 in addition to that there there's parks has a study going out or a plan for for 06:22:06.200 --> 06:22:10.560 planting trees within rights away and within so all of that will sort of mesh 06:22:10.560 --> 06:22:15.000 together and so as as this is as it's starting to move forward I'll just make 06:22:15.000 --> 06:22:20.760 sure each of those respective plans or the progress of them are brought to 06:22:20.760 --> 06:22:25.560 brought to brought to the Commission I'll include it on the list so it's on 06:22:25.560 --> 06:22:30.760 there and we know that just have the mobility part of it at the top of the 06:22:30.760 --> 06:22:38.400 list that'd be appreciate thanks Richard have a couple things first maybe as a 06:22:38.400 --> 06:22:42.760 sort of praise for the city thank you Julie and Haley y'all do great 06:22:42.760 --> 06:22:48.640 presentations and they're clear and they're easy to follow you set the 06:22:48.640 --> 06:22:51.240 standard for those presentations every time I see all his name I'm thinking 06:22:51.240 --> 06:22:57.800 okay this is gonna make sense to me so thank you with that some developers 06:22:57.800 --> 06:23:02.760 present better Lee Allison always has great presentations and I would I'm 06:23:02.760 --> 06:23:08.240 curious about how that can be more often the case I don't know if the city preps 06:23:08.240 --> 06:23:13.760 them for that presentation or anything like that it's helpful maybe he's just a 06:23:13.760 --> 06:23:16.440 better salesman and maybe he should just stick that maybe that's how he gets 06:23:16.440 --> 06:23:22.200 business I don't know maybe he doesn't want to sell his secrets but it's tough 06:23:22.200 --> 06:23:26.880 when when Julie and Lee are on a project to deny that because they're just so 06:23:26.880 --> 06:23:32.440 thoughtful so thank you for that with that the new slides look great I don't 06:23:32.440 --> 06:23:37.280 know I think City Council is the one who made that happen but the new slides I 06:23:37.280 --> 06:23:42.080 noticed they look good and they're easy to refer to so that's awesome 06:23:42.080 --> 06:23:46.540 lastly I really appreciate Richard I'm gonna put credit to you but it's probably 06:23:46.540 --> 06:23:52.080 and honestly your staff is with you but the matrix we had it four pages at one 06:23:52.080 --> 06:23:57.840 point having it down to five items is awesome it's super helpful and having 06:23:57.840 --> 06:24:03.920 the I know to provide economic impact for like financial viability of projects 06:24:03.920 --> 06:24:08.440 is former chairs strange lifelong endeavor it never happened I'm sure 06:24:08.440 --> 06:24:12.800 there's a lot of work to do that but I think that would really go a long way and 06:24:12.800 --> 06:24:16.720 trying to assess these projects and and really the benefit to the city that 06:24:16.720 --> 06:24:23.040 they're bringing so I affirm continuing that work to get that on there and with 06:24:23.040 --> 06:24:29.760 that can I formally request your idea of DISD coming to present if we can get 06:24:29.760 --> 06:24:33.920 that on the matrix let's let's have that as a target and then the two things 06:24:33.920 --> 06:24:39.200 actually have questions about is one are they allowed to read a letter on behalf 06:24:39.200 --> 06:24:42.520 of someone else if they've already spoke I don't know the rules on that it didn't 06:24:42.520 --> 06:24:49.840 seem like a big deal tonight but I don't know okay not the answer I was wanting 06:24:49.840 --> 06:24:54.640 the other question I have and this is kind of the elephant in the room for me 06:24:54.640 --> 06:25:01.480 is the rural flum area of the Northeast Denton is I think just gonna be a 06:25:01.480 --> 06:25:06.960 continual combative area and so I don't know if if we just wait to the DDC 06:25:06.960 --> 06:25:13.600 rewrite comes out I don't know if it's way there's a way to rush a new future 06:25:13.600 --> 06:25:19.640 land use map into iteration but me as a commissioner I want as you said it's a 06:25:19.640 --> 06:25:23.880 blank paper let's steward that really well and I think having this cast of 06:25:23.880 --> 06:25:27.640 rural is not helpful the development department it seems because it's not 06:25:27.640 --> 06:25:31.040 going to be future land use they have to have these seven criterias and I just 06:25:31.040 --> 06:25:36.000 really like to examine and highlight and how we as a commission can get into I 06:25:36.000 --> 06:25:40.200 know the work that that Larry and Margie are doing on the subcommittee but is 06:25:40.200 --> 06:25:44.920 there any opportunity for the commission to get involved to really start helping 06:25:44.920 --> 06:25:50.240 plan that corridor I'm not expecting an answer but I'm gonna pose that and put 06:25:50.240 --> 06:25:54.320 out in the ether for conversation let me think it through maybe it's it's late 06:25:54.320 --> 06:26:04.680 because I'm gonna regret tomorrow but the thought came to me you know we've 06:26:04.680 --> 06:26:10.720 we've typically have used small area plans for for neighborhoods sort of in 06:26:10.720 --> 06:26:17.720 town this might be something that we want to consider moving outside of the 06:26:17.720 --> 06:26:21.120 down you know typically where we look at small area plans and really kind of 06:26:21.120 --> 06:26:25.080 moving it out of the outside of the loop because there might be there might be a 06:26:25.080 --> 06:26:31.800 benefit of of having a growth boundary I mean that some cities do that and making 06:26:31.800 --> 06:26:36.000 sure that we preserve what once you once it's gone it's gone right but that's 06:26:36.000 --> 06:26:41.480 really more of a policy policy discussion but I think I don't have a 06:26:41.480 --> 06:26:45.840 problem coming back at you know in a work session in in in a couple meetings 06:26:45.840 --> 06:26:50.280 and just kind of going back through with what a small area plan is I mean if you 06:26:50.280 --> 06:26:53.840 look at the comprehensive plan and you'll kind of look at that appendix in 06:26:53.840 --> 06:26:59.200 the back it lays out kind of the criteria for for the small area plan and 06:26:59.200 --> 06:27:03.320 it's just that where the comp plan is kind of this broad policy document 06:27:03.320 --> 06:27:07.680 guiding and if you really want to dig deeper dive a little deeper that's kind 06:27:07.680 --> 06:27:11.520 of them that's kind of the tool to do it so if we want to look at it and 06:27:11.520 --> 06:27:19.480 incorporate drainage transportation and all the above it's kind of that's kind 06:27:19.480 --> 06:27:24.960 of go back I think it's you know rather than just responding and reacting to 06:27:24.960 --> 06:27:28.960 zoning actually doing some planning and so that's something I think we can put 06:27:28.960 --> 06:27:33.040 together and just come back at least for a discussion if that if that that works 06:27:33.040 --> 06:27:40.840 I would appreciate that I'll add it to the matrix that's acceptable I see no 06:27:40.840 --> 06:27:49.080 objections so that's a unanimous consent so I see no any another talking points 06:27:49.080 --> 06:27:55.640 for the matrix with that I will close this meeting at 1039