1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,660 good evening and welcome to the planet zoning Commission's work session for 2 00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:17,800 January 9th 2019 I will call the work session to order at 339 one point of 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,760 clarification for the agenda is on the work session we are going to switch item 4 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,760 one and item two so we will come back to the agenda items but first we'll 5 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,480 receive the work session reports starting with a presentation and 6 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:37,000 discussion regarding Robert's rule of order 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:43,720 hi y'all my name is Trey Lansford I'm a deputy city attorney here with this here 8 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,480 in the city attorney's office it was my understanding that this was asked for by 9 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:52,360 committee members just kind of an overview of Robert's rules of order not 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,200 too long ago late last year the City Council actually asked for the same 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,820 presentation and so we brought in Richard Hayes who is a local attorney 12 00:00:58,820 --> 00:01:02,720 here in town and who is a certified parliamentarian and so who better to 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,840 teach you Robert's rules of orders than a certified parliamentarian so we have 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,560 that video and I'll show that video now and then following that I'll be available 15 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,760 for questions if you have any 16 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,360 I started you know having been a chairman of the board of the chamber president 17 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,280 Kiwanis president of the bar Association you think you know something about 18 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,960 parliament procedure after you let a number of community groups and I really 19 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:36,920 started learning parliament to procedure about 15 years ago when my wife asked me 20 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,080 to come up to Ryan High School and to help their farming to procedure team and 21 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,320 I said no not gonna do it she said look I'm begging you just come down here one 22 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:48,120 time to help the kid I was not doing you chew my ass out every time I get home 23 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,120 late and I'm just not gonna I don't need more abuse in my life she says come one 24 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,000 time that's all I'm asking just one time so I go and there was young man there 25 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,400 who had read Robert's rules over the summer and he had like a photographic 26 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:09,000 memory so he would would be having a practice and I would say something says 27 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,740 well that's not right Mr. Hayes if you go on page 172 it says so-and-so and I 28 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:20,960 went so I flip open the book sure enough he was absolutely 100% correct he's an 29 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,840 MD now and it taught me I need to learn more about parliament procedure I didn't 30 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,040 know there were a number of organizations the National Association of 31 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,000 parliamentarians the Texas State Association of parliamentarians there's 32 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,880 a network across the nation and now through those organizations I started 33 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,640 learning more about it you'll see under my name it says professional registered 34 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,880 parliamentarian it when you join the National Association of parliamentarians 35 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,240 you're a member to be a member you have to take an exam so you can't just pay 36 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,440 dues you have to take an exam show minimum proficiency and then they have a 37 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,560 credentialing process you can first become a registered parliamentarian and 38 00:02:53,560 --> 00:03:01,680 then a professional registered parliamentarian that I do wrong here so 39 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:07,240 there's only about 275 people in the nation that are PRPs professional 40 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,760 registered parliamentarians we all have different niches some do labor unions 41 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:17,800 some do PTA some do churches some do political some do governmental and so 42 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,880 there's nuances to each of those various areas so what is prime procedure it's 43 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,440 the basic rules of democracy it's how groups of people come together in form 44 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,920 and then I'm talking just starting with a mass meeting where you think hey it'd 45 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,840 be a great idea if we had a Harley-Davidson club here and didn't so you 46 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,680 get a bunch of enthusiasts together and then you meet a couple times decide if 47 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,520 you're gonna have an organization an appointed committee prepare your bylaws 48 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:48,360 and ultimately adopt those and then once you have your bylaws adopted you know 49 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:53,680 how large your organization perhaps it's gonna be who the office what the officer 50 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,360 positions are and whatever one's responsibilities are and then how to go 51 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,920 about conducting your business I have to hit that next every time or am I just 52 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,640 hitting the wrong button all right so I want to talk a little bit about the 53 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:11,320 history of parliamentary procedure I could be a lot of the confusion in the 54 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,920 parliamentary world is because there are many parliamentary authorities and to 55 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,560 give you a great history lesson the first parliamentary man in the United 56 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,520 States was in 1801 by Thomas Jefferson now anybody remember what Thomas 57 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,640 Jefferson was doing in 1801 he was the vice president and what is the main job 58 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,540 of the vice president presided over the Senate when he realized there were no 59 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:39,020 rules and so he prepared the first he called it the manual parliamentary 60 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:43,600 procedure its parliamentary was his choice of words because a lot of it was 61 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,520 drawn from the English Parliament the second major publication was by a man 62 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:55,560 named Luther Cushing in 1844 it also had like the Jefferson manual dealt with 63 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:02,880 deliberative assemblies of a legislative nature a Senate House state Senate 64 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:10,240 state houses and there were both excellent works and then finally in 1876 65 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:17,640 Henry Robert at the time he was a major and he realized that those legislative 66 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,840 rules didn't necessarily apply very well to community organizations so he started 67 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,060 with the Jefferson manual he reworked it trimmed it down changed some of the 68 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:32,200 rules and came up with the pocket manual it was called a pocket manual to the 69 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,840 social it could fit right in your pocket of your shirt well over the years many 70 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:41,960 parliamentary authorities have evolved they have some similarities but they 71 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,240 have any differences and the main challenge I see on parliamentary 72 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:51,040 procedure is we watch C-SPAN all the time and we see him do something and 73 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,280 then we come back to our local organizations and we say man I saw how 74 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:58,840 to do that on C-SPAN and it's wrong because they're using the Jefferson 75 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:05,360 manual at the US House and Senate and most organizations these days are using 76 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,120 a different parliamentary authority so this is a little cartoon about you know 77 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,360 the teacher saying the past in council hadn't run so well and void problems in 78 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,720 the future we're going to start using Robert's rules you know this is Robert 79 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,920 here's Mike makes right is compared to what the rule is but here is the 80 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,320 dominant parliamentary authority for the United States it has about 90% of the 81 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,400 market share it is the parliamentary authority that the city of Denton has 82 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:35,480 adopted so what kind of rules governing assembly now I made a couple little 83 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,480 tweaks from the PowerPoint that was sent out to you in advance but we're gonna 84 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,920 start at the top there's a lot of state law that governs city councils then you 85 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,480 have your charter you've adopted special rules of order called city council rules 86 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,800 of order or rules of procedure then your parliamentary authority Roberts rules 87 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,200 standing rules which are more administrative in nature and then 88 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:06,320 custom now since Roberts rules is your dominant is your parliamentary manual if 89 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,200 you go right above that and it says city council rules of procedure and in 90 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,320 parentheses I say special rules of order what you've done is you have tweaked 91 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,720 Roberts to fit your particular needs it's a consequence they take precedence 92 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:28,200 and supersede what you read in Roberts so as with all law parliamentary law has 93 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,520 general rules has exceptions to the rules and exceptions to the exceptions 94 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,160 and most people know one of the three so that's another thing that causes 95 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:43,360 confusion is people saying different organizations operating in a different 96 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:49,720 parliamentary authorities and then knowing either the law the exception to 97 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:59,040 the law or the exception to the exception so this is your when you when 98 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:10,160 you go back to your council rules of procedure that's in your section two 99 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,680 point two nine of your code of ordinances this be 12 says okay you're 100 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,400 gonna use Roberts rules of order latest edition now we're on the 11th edition 101 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,440 about every 10 years the authorship committee comes out with a new edition 102 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,680 and they don't totally change it what they do is they have had circumstances 103 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,560 that have arisen that require more coverage so for instance in the 10th 104 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:40,280 edition there were three sentences on electronic meetings it was just 105 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,880 starting to come about to really have electronic meetings by the time we made 106 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,800 it to the 11th edition now we have three pages and I would expect from the 12th 107 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,920 edition comes out probably around 2021 we'll have a greater coverage on that 108 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,960 issue but your basic rules are gonna stay the same so how do we get home 109 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:05,960 before midnight this seems to be a non goal of most governing bodies okay so 110 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,120 it's not unique to the city of Denton but you know one reason I always thought I 111 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,880 couldn't be a member of the City Council is I'd slit my wrist I've had to sit up 112 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,840 there that long so one of your goals if you could is how do we not only operate 113 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,680 better as a group but how do we get it over and done with I mean just get it 114 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,440 over and done with so I want to give you some ideas the first thing I want to 115 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,040 suggest to you is everybody should have a notebook now I know y'all gone all 116 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,840 electronic won't encourage you to still have a notebook that you can keep next 117 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,560 to your laptop and in there you're going to have I say first your contacts of all 118 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:46,540 your council members key staff and you can even put your board members and 119 00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:49,520 stuff under that tab or you could do it further down like where you see nine ten 120 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,040 eleven you want to have a calendar of any important events and that will have 121 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:59,080 to be updated regularly on that tab then you want a copy of a corporate charter 122 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:11,520 your council rules a procedure what I'm referring to is the motions chart that's 123 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:24,720 this little handout I'm going to tab for your agendas and minutes any financial 124 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,720 records that you think are important to you especially the budget then your 125 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,760 committee members and then all of our various boards and other organizations 126 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,320 that are in the city carry this around with you because invariably what I see 127 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,880 in organizations is you're wondering who's supposed to be done what and 128 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,080 that'll help you all right so let's learn all the vocabulary the first thing 129 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,960 we do when the mayor of the mayor pro tem begins speaking is we convene the 130 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,760 meeting it means come together so normally it begins something like this 131 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,320 I want to welcome everyone here tonight and convene the meeting convene just 132 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,640 means come together immediately thereafter you need to establish a 133 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,440 quorum so we heard the mayor pro tem today say a quorum being present we will 134 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,200 now come to order we determine a quorum first before we come to order most 135 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,800 organizations say I'll call the mean the order do we have a quorum so we want to 136 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,680 figure out if we have a quorum first then we're going to call the meeting to 137 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:33,000 order different organizations do it different now one expediter when I 138 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,360 looked at today's agenda I didn't see an item on there maybe you already did it 139 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,560 the approval the minutes of the last meeting I didn't see it maybe it was 140 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:45,320 escaping me I thought maybe about me under the consent agenda yeah generally 141 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,280 they show up on the consent agenda every so often we'll have three or four sets 142 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,840 of minutes that will be beyond consent at a time so generally we approve the 143 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,760 minutes at the next regularly scheduled meeting but consent agenda is a 144 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,400 wonderful way to do that if you're at your Rotary Club you know the way it 145 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,280 should handle happen or if you're at the another organization you just say the 146 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,960 minutes haven't been mailed down in advance are there any corrections to the 147 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,440 minutes crickets crickets crickets there being no 148 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,840 corrections minutes stand approved is prepared does not require a motion we 149 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,040 call that unanimous consent so that's a little bitty time saver it does not 150 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:26,160 require a motion or a second so let's talk about some of the rules of speaking 151 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:33,040 we want to be recognized before you speak address always the comments to the 152 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:38,800 mayor or the mayor pro tem not to other council members why do you think we do 153 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:45,080 that it's one way to keep the corn we don't start getting personal or you know 154 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:51,560 heated so we direct it to the presiding officer whoever made the motion has the 155 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:57,680 right to speak first under Roberts we have default rules on how long you can 156 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,180 talk the default rule is 10 minutes each time you speak and you can speak two 157 00:13:02,180 --> 00:13:07,200 times on the same day on the same same subject holy cow that's a lot of time so 158 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,600 we all have adopted under your City Council rules of procedure limits for 159 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,680 outsiders but you have not done that on yourself so I don't know if you consider 160 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:23,440 that an issue but to again to keep the meeting running what I see in large 161 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,880 organizations especially at conventions is they will put a total time limit per 162 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,640 item they'll say these items are all items who shall not exceed 20 minutes 163 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:40,520 and you're gonna or you can put one speech per person not to exceed three 164 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,840 minutes so you might just consider that you shall not speak more than twice on 165 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:51,360 the same question on the same day that's a very reasonable rule and you don't have 166 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,640 the opportunity to speak a second time until everyone else has had the 167 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,440 opportunity to speak we've all been to meetings where there's just one person 168 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,960 that is just dominating that particular meeting you know they might talk three 169 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:08,120 four or five times that doesn't mean they don't have valuable things to add 170 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:16,480 it's just it delays the meeting generally the remarks should be limited 171 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,960 to the merits of the pending question this the word vocabulary word here is 172 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,920 germane has to be germane to whatever the immediately pending motion is we'll 173 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,400 talk about that a little bit more in a minute you should alternate between those 174 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,360 in favor and against now this is another hard thing that governmental bodies have 175 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,960 doing you might have five people that are in favor of it and all five want to 176 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,240 give their two cents worth on why they're in favor of it and the other two 177 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,280 don't speak if we wanted to expedite our meeting if there's no one who's speaking 178 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,800 against it then there's real really no reason why we need to hear why all five 179 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:55,120 people are in favor avoid the personal remarks don't ever question motives and 180 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:02,440 don't impugn people's character if you make a motion you can't speak against it 181 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,080 but after the debate you may have changed your mind and say well that 182 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,400 wouldn't a very good idea so you can vote against it and then in closing 183 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:18,320 debate it requires a motion a second and a two-thirds vote to close debate or if 184 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,840 the designing officer says is there any further comments or we don't have any 185 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,400 other lights you know y'all use the touchscreen if there's no other lights 186 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:32,480 then a motion is really not necessary that you would again be using unanimous 187 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:43,800 consent this is when the motives of a member of the body is questioned is the 188 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,560 proper response for somebody to say point of order and we saw this very 189 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,480 dramatically if you'll recall when Jeff Sessions was they were having the debate 190 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,720 on the US Senate floor on whether or not he should become the Attorney General 191 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:03,000 the United States and one of the other senators started haranguing and saying 192 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,400 some things and what happened the presiding officer just on his own 193 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,640 initiative called a point of order that one of our rules of decorum is we do not 194 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:19,840 disparage or speak ill of other members of the body okay so that was a good 195 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,400 example of that point of order anytime you think there's a rule that's not 196 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,400 being followed because you have millions of rules now don't you state law charter 197 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:36,720 your code of ordinances your rules of order of rules of procedure your Roberts 198 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,320 rules of order so you have all kinds of rules so that can be used anytime there 199 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:49,520 is a perceived rule violation okay how to handle a motion so the first place I 200 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,560 want to take you is on the front of your handout and this is prepared by the 201 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,000 National Association of parliamentarians it is said that if you can learn these 202 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,320 two pages front and back you'll know about 50% of everything you need to know 203 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,320 about parliamentary procedure so that's kind of nice it seems that I can know 204 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,960 half on the front you'll see procedure for handling a main motion and after you 205 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,800 have risen or you have punched your button and sought recognition and you're 206 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,280 recognized then you have these six steps so first a member is gonna make a motion 207 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:28,480 what's gonna happen next somebody else is gonna have to second it then the 208 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,760 chair is gonna state the question it is moved and seconded to approve the 209 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:38,960 contract with so-and-so debate it finally you're gonna vote on it the 210 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,960 chair put put is a word of parliamentary art that is it has a very specific 211 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,360 meaning in the parliamentary world when you put a question you're putting it to 212 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:52,040 a vote and then the chair will announce the results of the vote so if you go 213 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,720 down the little page here you can write your one two three four five six on here 214 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,600 if you're wondering what happens what happens a lot of times is when normally 215 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:08,280 get a motion 90% of the time we get a second about 50% of the time the chair 216 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:14,760 will state the question we're pretty good about debating it I'd say 98% of the 217 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,560 time we debate things when they're debatable sometimes we debate things 218 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:24,680 that aren't debatable and then the chair puts the question to a vote we're good 219 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:30,280 at that sometimes we assume there's a motion just like that unanimous consent 220 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,360 we don't have a formal what does the chair say in unanimous consent what I 221 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,960 gave you while ago are there in the corrections to the minutes crickets 222 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,120 crickets crickets there being no corrections the minutes are approved or 223 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:47,120 if there's no objection to the approval of the contract the contract will be 224 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:54,040 approved crickets crickets crickets it's approved so we use unanimous consent so 225 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,400 if everybody is chimed in that they're all in favor of the contract then it's 226 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,280 really easy for the charity's unanimous consent in which since you're a 227 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:09,360 governmental body everybody's gonna punch their keypad and give us the 228 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:14,800 result it was pointed out the last time we had like a lot of discussion about 229 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:21,440 preliminary procedure in this body that we have kind of a custom or a practice 230 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,480 of having debate and then kind of seeing if somebody wants to entertain you know 231 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,880 if someone wants to make a motion right is that a problem that's the antithesis 232 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,400 of parliamentary procedure again and governmental bodies the basic rule is 233 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,240 have a motion on the floor you have a motion on the floor then you can focus 234 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,120 the debate you know exactly what you're going to either vote you're gonna prove 235 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,960 the contract you're gonna disapprove so if you wait till all of it is then you 236 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,440 kind of read the tea leaves and it says well it looks like there's five people 237 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,240 against this then someone may say well I'll make a motion to disapprove but if 238 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,000 you'll I would encourage you again if you can discipline yourselves the mayor 239 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,680 will read the agenda item say this is the next item someone could make their 240 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,560 motion then debate it then we're gonna use some of those other rules to help 241 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,120 expedite your meeting alternate between those in favor and those against once 242 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:21,520 you run out of one side don't recognize the others okay that will save you an 243 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,000 incredible amount of time so if you'll make your motion first to direct the 244 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,560 direct the debate and then alternate so everybody doesn't have to speak I know 245 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:35,440 you're on TV but what's the goal get home before midnight that's the goal all 246 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:44,160 right now how do you obtain the floor in the work session we are raising hands at 247 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,640 the council members you're gonna press your touchscreen in larger assemblies 248 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,400 let's say you're a convention or something like that normally you'll 249 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,720 arise an address and then after your recognition you'll give your name 250 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,360 identification and you'll remain standing until you're recognized once 251 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:08,920 someone else is recognized you can go ahead and sit down so what's our pneumonic 252 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,640 for the front page here remember we said there are six steps first step is what 253 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:23,360 make a motion then I move that don't say I motion that I move that I move to 254 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:34,000 adopt the ordinance dealing with so-and-so I move that or I move to then 255 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,520 we have the second there's a set second step then the chair is going to state 256 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:44,160 the question now this is something else that we see is not used dramatically 257 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,040 correct but it is moved it's present tense not it has been moved now if you 258 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,480 say it has been moved that's not the end the world we can figure it out but it's 259 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,960 moved and seconded you know to approve the contract then we're going to debate 260 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,640 it we're gonna put it to the vote and this is that last step step six on 261 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,520 announcing results the eyes have it the motion is adopted and the treasurer will 262 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,000 issue the check you know to pay the bill I want you to see here this has three 263 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,500 parts to it announcing the results of the vote so it's very clear what just 264 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:19,960 happened which side had it what happened that is the motion is adopted or lost 265 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,640 and the effect you know we will enter into a contract if you look at the 266 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,640 bottom in the middle here it gives you those three steps when it has under the 267 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,960 chair announces the result of the vote so it has three parts to it every time 268 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,560 which side has it whether or not the motion is adopted or not and the effect 269 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,960 and then immediately thereafter move the next item of business is you know agenda 270 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:52,720 item for B remember it may be knows have it the motion is lost the check will not 271 00:22:52,720 --> 00:23:01,120 be written next item of business is so what are our six steps motion second we 272 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:07,560 state it now in the parliamentary world that mss that's miss and the fourth the 273 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:13,240 last part there debate a vote and announce is diva that's miss diva that's 274 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,800 mnemonic I used that term a while ago so if you're trying to remember that you 275 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:26,200 could write mss DVA and you'll know your procedures okay methods of voting in 276 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,960 your council chambers you know someone is going to have made a you have to 277 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,240 puncha your keypad devote I mean to make a motion someone else's has a little 278 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,560 place on there to make the second if you want to debate you have a place to do 279 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:48,680 that and then you have a place to touch either for or against so you're not 280 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,920 doing electronic what we would technically call electronic voting 281 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,820 because you're all together at the same time but you are using electronic 282 00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:05,720 device to indicate your preference so what you're doing here is you're having 283 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,040 synchronous voting you're going to sink on this meeting everybody's in the same 284 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,200 room the same time everybody's voting at the same time that's different than 285 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,480 asynchronous where you try to vote by email for instance some organizations 286 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,800 allow that their bylaws so allow 287 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:35,720 in voting we're talking about voting methodologies lots of y'all ever do a 288 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:42,800 voice vote even on simple things are you always use keep it we occasionally use 289 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:51,040 hands especially if we're voting in here that's only okay option for and in your 290 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,240 work session minutes you always record how everyone voted someone doing that or 291 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:01,680 just put it in past well during work session will get in census but we don't 292 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,640 actually vote items on the regular meeting or special call meeting that we 293 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:15,120 vote on it is recorded who voted which direction okay all right we use raising 294 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:21,280 hands or a rising vote normally when their two-thirds vote is required you 295 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,680 know the older story called division of the assembly in the great days they 296 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,800 would literally be in a room and those in favor would go to one side of the 297 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:39,280 room and the O's that against it would go to the other so this is rising votes 298 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:47,760 diva voce is the Latin phrase that means you know by vocal doing it vocally so in 299 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,200 our special community organizations who might say those in favor the motion say 300 00:25:53,200 --> 00:26:00,800 I have those opposed say no and then which side has it is how we would do we 301 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,320 already saw a couple examples of unanimous consent when you did that 302 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,080 especially when there seems to be no opposition y'all use the concept you 303 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:20,200 announced consent when you do your what yes consider Jenna exactly and unanimous 304 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,280 consent doesn't mean everybody's in favor of it it just means no one has an 305 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,640 objection that's what that really means that's why we say if there's no 306 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,680 objection the contract will be approved 307 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:38,320 so you'll see the third check mark there can be used without stating the 308 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,840 question or putting it to a formal vote 309 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:50,160 that's my remote sir yes I offer a footnote there is a form of unanimous 310 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,560 consent where everyone is in favor is there not that's called approval by 311 00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:00,800 acclamation you can do acclamation yes all right so now we're going to learn a 312 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:09,320 little bit about motions I want you to open up your handout and you're going to 313 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,200 see over on the left hand side it says ranking motions we have a total of five 314 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,600 classes of motions three of those classes are called ranking or in the 315 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,200 ranking area starting at the bottom main motions main motions bring substantive 316 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,680 business before the organization we have subsidiary motions and then privileged 317 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:39,080 motions so there are 13 ranking motions so we have main motions subsidiary and 318 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,960 privileged those are the three classes ranking motions and I just told you 319 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:50,480 there were 13 in individual motions under there one for the main motions seven 320 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:57,960 subsidiary and five privileged now interestingly when you go to your City 321 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,720 Council rules the procedure you already carry these around hard copy was you 322 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,800 just use it all electronic 323 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:25,880 it's not a trick question electronic okay until I build my folder second under 324 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:32,600 the section G consideration of ordinances resolutions and motions when 325 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:40,720 you get down to subsection 10 says order of precedence of motions so that's what 326 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,480 this is talking about we're nothing about ranking motions it has to do with 327 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,920 precedence we'll come back to that and then the other two classes are on the 328 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,480 right hand side of your handout non ranking motions you'll see these are in 329 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,480 alphabetical order up there incidental motions and then motions that bring a 330 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,560 question again before the assembly so since they have no rank putting it in 331 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:08,400 alphabetical order was as good as any now there are about 84 different 332 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,080 parliamentary maneuvers that you'll see in Roberts rules you'll see that if we 333 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,440 only have 13 ranking motions and you look across the way maybe we have 334 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:28,360 another 13 or 14 where are all the other maneuvers well if it's not on this chart 335 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,200 on let me give you the good news to you guys on motions are bringing a question 336 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,400 again for the assembly there's only four of those so generally they're gonna end 337 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:44,720 up being an incidental motion generally okay there's your chart now let's see 338 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,080 what else is on this page up in the top left hand corner it's called pertinent 339 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,080 facts you'll see it gives you the definition of four of the five classes 340 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:59,120 of motions underneath it it says meaning of symbols because some of the maneuvers 341 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,880 have a symbol out next to them in the bottom left hand corner types of 342 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,360 amendments over in the right hand side you'll see notes for footnotes and then 343 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:17,520 the bottom right hand corner forms of voting so this is a cute cartoon what is 344 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:23,320 motion sickness okay so now we're going to go through some of those specific 345 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:32,560 motions and the first the lowest ranking motion is the main motion how do we 346 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:45,120 make a main motion I move that or two I move that or two now let's look at our 347 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,840 parliamentary chart for just a minute and you see all these columns on here 348 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,920 every parliamentary maneuver has what we call eight standard descriptive 349 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,560 characteristics six of the eight lend themselves pretty well to chart format 350 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,600 the other two do not so what you'll see in your chart here is in the first 351 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,680 column is is an interrupting motion can you just interrupt and if there is a 352 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:16,920 what there can you interrupt the letter I thank you second column tells us 353 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,880 whether or not that motion needs a second the third is whether or not it's 354 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,760 debatable the fourth is it amendable the fifth is what kind of vote is required 355 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,780 and the sixth was can you reconsider that particular parliamentary maneuver 356 00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:36,960 the general rule on main motions is that majority vote majority rules y'all have 357 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:43,240 adopted a under your counsel rules of procedure you have tweaked that rule a 358 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,360 little bit so this is one of those special rules of order this is under G 359 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:54,440 again we remember a while ago we were talking about G so consideration of 360 00:31:54,440 --> 00:32:01,480 ordinances resolutions and motions and what does the slide say here y'all said 361 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,080 an affirmative vote of four members is necessary to repeal any ordinance or 362 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,160 take any official action in the name of the city that would be like adopting 363 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:19,480 ordinance so what if you only have five people at the meeting what happens so 364 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,920 you have varied Roberts because once you determine you have a quorum five would 365 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:31,400 be a quorum then normally three out of the five could pass it so there are some 366 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,560 positive to this you know it puts when you have a low turnout one night it 367 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,480 protects those who are absent from those being present adopting something that 368 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:50,000 others may decide was you know ill-advised or not fully developed you 369 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,800 also have another rule talking about tie votes and if you have a tie vote so you 370 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:01,320 have six people there then it automatically goes to the next council 371 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:11,040 agenda so what normally happens on a tie vote in parliamentary law does tie vote 372 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:17,920 is a lost vote so what y'all done is since you're having to do substantive 373 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,680 business that's what this is this particular area of your rules are 374 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:30,440 dealing with substantive business then we know we're gonna have to still deal 375 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,520 with the issue and if it's a tie vote then we'll kick it to the next agenda 376 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:41,600 comes from breaks do our boards and Commission says can you go back also 377 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:50,520 follow the a tie vote and say if they do say P&Z has a tie vote that's going to 378 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:58,760 be a tie forever and ever does that move up to council or does that stay in the 379 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:07,400 committee and and die so your specific question dealt with which body planning 380 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:14,120 and zoning okay the answer that would be no that's how I read your the rule says 381 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:28,840 under be general rules it says well that's not the right section what it 382 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:36,160 says under authority number one pursuant to the revisions of section 2.07 of the 383 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,800 Charter the City Council hereby enacts these rules of procedure for all meetings 384 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,840 of the City Council in the City of Denton so I see it as written it's just applying 385 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,680 to council and so any other body border Commission that would have a tie vote 386 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:58,320 then that vote would die be a lost vote be a lost vote okay there's actually a 387 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,720 provision in the rules of procedure okay it's yeah you have a whole bunch of 388 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:09,760 rules on committees don't you it's it's the last it's h4 in the rules of 389 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,080 procedure and it basically it mandates all these rules of procedure 2-29 apply 390 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,560 to all the boards and commissions and committees and so we they have my 391 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,120 previous action council has okay he's applicable to them they're not 392 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,040 referenced in the general to 29 but we do make it applicable okay and where did 393 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:40,120 you say that was it's the provision right before it's up section 9 okay okay 394 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,800 rules of procedure board Commission and committees members shall comply with 395 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:51,160 revisions of this of article 2 is chapter 2 of the code of ordinances copy 396 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:56,880 we provided a copy of these rules of procedure which shall govern operational 397 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,040 procedures of the boards and Commission so I stand correct thank you 398 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:21,160 council member that yeah I just have a question about that I mean like on PNC 399 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:28,120 if it's a tabo or actually they voted down that still doesn't prevent the 400 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:34,600 council itself from bringing that matter up correct generally it would not okay 401 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,960 because the council could basically overrule PNC and bring it before the 402 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,880 council well council might deny the let's say a rezoning in a piece of 403 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,680 property that didn't you know preclude it from coming before the council you 404 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,840 know they're making a recommendation to the council okay and then council will 405 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,440 take the final action on that item okay 406 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,760 council member my question to follow up on that so if PNC isn't a tie vote and 407 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:08,260 it's forever a tie vote how would that recommendation come to council if it 408 00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:12,440 doesn't ever it would essentially be no recommendation so it would eventually 409 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:19,240 come to us is no recommendation well it's not they're not in favor and they're 410 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:25,400 not against it so at some point if it keeps getting hung up in PNC and I guess 411 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,560 the council becomes aware of it you could request it be put on your agenda I 412 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:35,760 mean after a little while it seems that body most of those bodies are organized 413 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,160 to have odd number of members so at some point they ought to be able to break the 414 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,680 time unless someone keeps abstaining or someone keeps being absent but normally 415 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,120 it'll work its way through have y'all had a an example of that word just kept 416 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:55,520 me month after month it was time of time oh well there was a recusal and so I 417 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,160 mean it eventually worked itself out but I'm just kind of going through the the 418 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,720 process okay so let's go back to your example if that were the case perhaps 419 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:10,560 you might consider adding to the rule if it's ends up a tie vote more than twice 420 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,320 then what do you want what do you want the result to be and automatically kicks 421 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:21,200 it from the board to the council or it's now it really is lost and you can decide 422 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,880 okay thank you I just wanted to add that there's a work 423 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,760 session coming before you I believe it's next week about this specific issue and 424 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,720 some of the recommendations the staff is making to address the tie vote provision 425 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:41,640 so thank you okay if you want to kill a motion look at your parliamentary chart 426 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,920 second from the bottom you'll see postpone indefinitely this is your 427 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:52,800 lowest ranking subsidiary motion this is the killer motion so what you do if 428 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,720 someone says I'm able to postpone the motion indefinitely you're now voting on 429 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:05,000 whether or not to kill it so if you pass the motion to postpone indefinitely what 430 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,560 what's the practical effect of that you never took a vote of the main motion 431 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,200 that was before you passed postpone indefinitely so you this is what Congress 432 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,280 does all the time they can say well I was for it and because I didn't vote 433 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:23,800 against it but yes you voted to kill the motion but you never took a direct vote 434 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:33,960 on the motion in that case could a motion to reconsider bring it back from 435 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:40,680 purgatory all right now look at postpone and definitely y'all have a rule that's 436 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,940 again it when yours a special rule that supersedes Roberts Roberts with the 437 00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:50,920 asterisk there so see Roberts is what that means and but y'all have adopted a 438 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:56,120 rule that at the next regular scheduled meeting someone could make a motion to 439 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:02,240 postpone I mean a motion reconsider so long as you put it you know let somebody 440 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,880 know in advance so it can be on the agenda to comply with the open meetings 441 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:16,200 act so what this rule tells you is is we only reconsider under Roberts 442 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,600 affirmative votes only that's what that asterisk means so how many of you people 443 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:49,200 actually have a rock okay now I want to wait just give you these for a moment you 444 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:57,160 know I wanted to tell you one of those vandal parts of Roberts that is most 445 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,640 people never use in the back we have these tinted pages this takes every 446 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,600 parliamentary maneuver that I mentioned to you while ago Richard if you could 447 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,480 step behind the mic all right we're gonna stay in the camera range stay on 448 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:17,000 camera you'll see it has all those maneuvers but let's go to postpone 449 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:26,440 indefinitely it's in its item 61 on page 23 in the tinted pages and when you see 450 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,480 an asterisk on your chart if you will slide over to whether or not it can be 451 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:38,760 reconsidered what does it say affirmative vote only affirmative vote 452 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:46,680 only all right so we don't reconsider negative votes to kill it okay now 453 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,680 that's but y'all have adopted a different rules I'm just giving you a 454 00:41:50,680 --> 00:42:00,080 distinction in your rules so this is a killer motion if you want to change a 455 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,800 motion we do that by amending now look on the bottom left-hand corner of your 456 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,720 parliamentary chart I gave you types of amendments I'm going to tell you there 457 00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:16,120 are five one way is to insert a second way is to add insert means between 458 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:23,920 existing words and it means at the end we can strike out words we can strike 459 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,600 out and insert words or we could substitute those are the five ways that 460 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:37,160 we amend so here is a practice pointer the rule is you have a main motion on 461 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,720 the floor a primary amendment can be made and a secondary amendment can be 462 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,960 made a secondary amendment amends the primary amendment we do not allow a 463 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:53,440 tertiary amendment so it gets too confusing at that point if many options 464 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,200 need to be considered Roberts gives you an option it's called to create a blank 465 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,120 and then you can take all kinds of suggestions and then whichever 466 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,500 suggestion first is a suggestion that receives a majority vote then you can 467 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:12,360 fill the blank but as far as amendments primary and a secondary the secondary 468 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,560 amendment has to be germane to the primary amendment and I have some 469 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,120 examples here at the end I'm gonna go through amendments a little more 470 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:28,600 thoroughly yes ma'am councilman welcome there's a if somebody has an idea for a 471 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:38,600 tertiary amendment could the could the body decide to postpone the meeting 472 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:44,640 with the primary and secondary amendment to postpone that to another time where 473 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,120 and in which case with the tertiary amendment when reconsidered would it 474 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,680 still count as the tertiary amendment or then would it be okay so your idea is 475 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,680 we're starting to brainstorm now we have several ideas and maybe the suggestion 476 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,080 is we're gonna postpone the main motion and the adhering amendments to be taken 477 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,680 up at the next regularly scheduled meeting yeah okay maybe even a better way to do 478 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,720 that is refer it to a committee let the committee study all these different 479 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,760 alternatives and then bring a recommendation back from the committee 480 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:23,400 might be another way to do it okay if you think there's going to be many 481 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,760 suggestions just go ahead and say I moved him in the say the motion is I 482 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,960 move to order pepperoni pizza and someone makes that's a main motion 483 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,200 primary amendment strike pepperoni insert sausage secondary amendment 484 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,640 strike sausage and insert anchovy okay and someone else wants to have vegetarian 485 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,960 okay so we're getting all these different suggestions so maybe in that 486 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,360 case since we're trying to order the pizza for lunch that may be impractical 487 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,600 to send it to a committee or to postpone it so in that instance the better thing 488 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,960 to do might be to create a blank take all the suggestions for the kind of pizza 489 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,240 you want and then we start voting on them in the order in which they're made 490 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:05,560 and the first one that receives a majority maybe we never make it to 491 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:11,680 anchovy because we're gonna adopt the earlier item now filling of blanks is a 492 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,040 very technical area we have different rules for money names we do in the order 493 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:23,680 in which they were suggested for distance we have different rules because 494 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:30,360 what we do and like distance of money we start with the least likely suggestion 495 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,040 to be adopted and work our way so if someone says I moved to sell City Hall 496 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,880 for a million dollars and someone else said and sometimes I want to create a 497 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,120 blank and the first suggestion will be a million and then somebody else's well I 498 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,720 think we shouldn't sell it for less than two million if someone else's well I 499 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,720 don't think should be less than 10 million so we get all those when you're 500 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:57,160 trying to sell what would be the least likely the one million well the least 501 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,040 likely to be a million that is you'd rather get you prefer to sell it for as 502 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,400 high now if you're the buyer you say now move to buy the new City Hall then you 503 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,920 want to start with the lowest okay that mean that is the most likely way we 504 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,480 always start with the least likely so there are different rules for filling 505 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:19,800 different kinds of blanks and that's a whole nother day okay we want to send it 506 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,160 to a group for study we commit a refer if we want to delay action to the next 507 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,000 meeting we move to postpone I move to postpone the item to the next regularly 508 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,040 scheduled meeting or you can postpone it to later in the same meeting so 509 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,040 postpone can be used both ways same meeting or or another meeting but it 510 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,320 can't be beyond the next meeting you can't postpone something for a year 511 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,360 they'll be like trying to kill it wouldn't so you would do your postpone 512 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,440 indefinitely if you want to change the rules of debate you can limit or extend 513 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,780 limits of debate and you can see what we're doing here is we're working our 514 00:46:50,780 --> 00:46:58,680 way up the chart and and the next one is the previous question so if you would 515 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:04,200 look at limit debate and previous question what vote is required for both 516 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,760 of those two-thirds and the reason it's two-thirds is debate is a basic right 517 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,160 of a member of a assembly so if we're gonna take away that basic right or 518 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,560 limit it in some way then we're going to require two-thirds vote so do both of 519 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:24,360 those require second limit debate or previous question yes and requires the 520 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:33,480 two-thirds so here is what y'all have under your council rules of order when 521 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,520 the previous question is moved and seconded it should be put as follows 522 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:43,760 remember put is that word of art shall the main question be now put if you're 523 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,240 gonna make a suggestion here on something I'm not sure the main question 524 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:53,240 now be voted on instead of put that's just a technical term there should be no 525 00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,560 further amendment or debate except that nothing here in shall allow the previous 526 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,840 question to be called prior to at least one opportunity for each council member 527 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:05,880 to speak now if you were gonna look for time savers this is another this is a 528 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,760 killer we're gonna let everybody speak on every issue 529 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,840 the other thing by closing debate I move the previous question it stops 530 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,840 debate on all these lower pending motions but it allows you to make these 531 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:37,800 higher ranking motions this is one of the most abused motions I see because 532 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,400 lots of times organizations are not requiring second server or two-thirds 533 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:48,080 vote if you want to set aside something temporarily because something else of 534 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,640 urgency is arisen what are we gonna do for the highest ranking subsidiary motion 535 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:59,160 we're gonna lay it on the table now in the Jefferson manual lay on the table is 536 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:04,320 a killer motion so we watch C-SPAN and we see the US House of Representatives say 537 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,520 I move to lay the motion on the table they're killing it lay on the table does 538 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:15,120 not kill a motion what motion kills it postpone indefinitely that's the killer 539 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:24,920 motion so lay on the table not a killer motion requires majority vote now we're 540 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,560 gonna move over to the right-hand side of your parliamentary chart under 541 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:33,440 incidental motions if we want to enforce a rule what are we gonna do make a point 542 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:38,720 of order if you're not sure if a point of order is in is the appropriate 543 00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:42,480 maneuver to make and you want to be or maybe you will be more genteel about it 544 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:50,280 what can you do make a parliamentary inquiry you could ask the presiding 545 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:56,640 officer do we have a council rule that prohibits making personal attacks 546 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,600 against members you're making instead of saying the person is out of order just 547 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:08,640 because they did it you can make a parliamentary inquiry now once the chair 548 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:13,140 makes a parliamentary ruling like someone says point water state your 549 00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:19,200 point can't attack council members the presiding officer says point well-made 550 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:24,580 if you disagree with that parliamentary ruling then you can appeal from the 551 00:50:24,580 --> 00:50:27,540 decision of the chair so on the right-hand side since this is an 552 00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:33,240 alphabetical order you'll see appeal there does it require a second yes and a 553 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:41,080 majority vote you'll rarely have the need for division since you're using 554 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:47,200 raising hands or the keypad voting what happens when you're at a convention the 555 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,360 chair says all in favor say aye and then the nose all opposed say no the 556 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:57,180 nose always seem louder and there have been a lot of studies on this and most 557 00:50:57,180 --> 00:51:04,320 of the time the eyes had it and so if you disagree with that because we use 558 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,520 our ears on a voice vote then you can have a rising vote use our eyes again 559 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:14,160 we're not counting we're just looking we got 8,000 delegates if you still can't 560 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:22,760 tell then you could do some type of counted vote what did I tell you while 561 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:28,280 ago if you had a parliamentary question what do we use yeah we don't ever use 562 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,520 the word question in the parliamentary world you don't say I have a question we 563 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:39,040 either make parliamentary inquiries or we make requests for information so if you 564 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,640 want to be very technical now no meeting runs perfect we see lots of people say 565 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,400 well I have a question on so and so but technically we would say request for 566 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:55,680 information if you want to do something that your parliamentary rules don't 567 00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:00,920 allow that is your City Council rules of procedure or Roberts rules we can 568 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:07,640 suspend the rules guess what we can't suspend we can't suspend state law we 569 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,520 can't suspend our corporate charter okay we can't suspend those you can only 570 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:18,720 suspend parliamentary rules and under your rules again instead of it being a 571 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,360 majority vote aren't me excuse me a two-thirds vote y'all have a specific 572 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,400 rule that allows four votes to suspend the rules so you made a little bit 573 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,040 easier if all seven people are there if only six of the seven are there it's 574 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:34,640 still two-thirds just like go to your chart the last item says suspend the 575 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,840 rules you'll see that if you want to write on your chart suspend the rules 576 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,200 right between the and rules the word parliamentary 577 00:52:44,200 --> 00:53:04,000 reconsideration this is on that the fifth class of motions motions bring a 578 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,800 question again before the assembly and this is your specific City Council 579 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:16,480 rule of procedure rule as with Roberts it can only be made by someone who voted 580 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,640 on the prevailing side but y'all allow it to be made at the next succeeding 581 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,560 official meeting of the council and as we talked about a while ago you have to 582 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:31,400 let it be known that you're gonna make that motion so it can be agenda so how 583 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,880 do you do that your rule says let the city manager know so we can get it on 584 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:42,480 the agenda all right now we're gonna talk about amendments how many ways did I 585 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:56,520 say you could I mean well ago so we add what does that mean at the end so if you 586 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,160 will say I move to amend by adding then everybody in the room knows this is 587 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,360 going to go on the end same thing if you insert and they know it's going to go 588 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:11,960 between words so I move to amend by inserting pepperoni after the word the 589 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,800 main motion is I move to order pizza for lunch so you know I move to amend by 590 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:24,200 inserting pepperoni between order and pizza councilmember well sir whatever 591 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:29,560 would be considered a proper to amend by inserting the words anything but yes 592 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:37,840 you could that's right get new carpet in City Hall anything but red or something 593 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:46,160 okay then we can move to strike out and insert and substitute substitution is 594 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,600 when you have so many changes that are going on it's instead of taking like 595 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,560 five different little amendments we're just gonna take a whole new paragraph in 596 00:54:54,560 --> 00:55:00,560 place of that which is there so let's give some examples here I already tell 597 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:07,040 you this one main motion we order pizza and the motion is to amend by adding with 598 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:12,520 pepperonis mushrooms and bell peppers now where does that go at the end that's 599 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:20,520 what that means if we're gonna insert main motion I mean that we order pizza 600 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:26,280 someone else's own a man by inserting pepperoni after order so the amended 601 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,600 motion read that we order pepperoni pizza I'm using pages because it's real 602 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,800 easy to understand when if we took some of your agenda items it's a little more 603 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:40,120 challenging and I think sometimes it gets the better of you know city 604 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,600 councils as they're trying to make amendments our strikeout insert and the 605 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:51,600 motion was that we order a deep-ditch pizza someone else wanted to make it so 606 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,880 you can see we would strike out and insert 607 00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:01,240 amending the amendment so remember we have the main motion we have a primary 608 00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:06,920 amendment and then now this is our secondary amendment secondary 609 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:12,360 amendments amends only the primary amendment that second bullet says it 610 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,920 cannot be applied to a secondary amendment what was the word we used while 611 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:22,640 they go for that you cannot have a tertiary it has to be germane to the 612 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:27,280 the secondary amendment has to be gene germane to the primary amendment so main 613 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:33,240 motion is to buy a computer someone else wants to amend it by inserting Dell so 614 00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:36,560 if adopted it would read I moved to amend the amendment by striking Dell 615 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:42,240 inserting Apple once you have a secondary amendment floor you have to 616 00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:46,160 vote on that and if that passes then you have to vote on the primary amendment 617 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:51,400 and then you vote on the main motion as amended so this would not this is an 618 00:56:51,400 --> 00:57:01,080 incorrect example what's wrong here why couldn't we put a cost limitation well 619 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,720 we were our primary amendment was what type of computer what brand were we 620 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:10,080 going to buy so your secondary amendment has to do with branding this has to do 621 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:17,000 with dollars once we decide to adopt Dale and now it just says I moved to buy 622 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:22,640 a Dell computer for the executive then you can add a second primary amendment 623 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,800 to put a dollar limitation cost on it so we're not mixing apples and oranges 624 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:36,840 there this is a nitpicky question but just to understand but if you included 625 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:44,520 the cost with the with the Dell amendment wouldn't that be wouldn't that 626 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:50,040 mean a Dell computer not to exceed a thousand dollars as opposed to if you 627 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,400 just included it at the end then it would be any computer whatever kind and 628 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,720 you have flexibility in how you word it but again we're not gonna amend insert 629 00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:06,360 Dale here and then add cost over here it needs to be all in one location that's 630 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:10,240 your example that you just gave I see we're not gonna have three primary 631 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,960 amendments yes and we wouldn't say at a cost not to exceed a thousand dollars 632 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:23,480 and then had from best buy yeah now on the vendor and where we're gonna go by 633 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,640 so here we're gonna add at the end pepperoni mushrooms and bell peppers 634 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,520 here we're going to amend the primary amendment by striking what pepperoni in 635 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:40,960 inserting sausage so if amended it would read the primary amendment would read 636 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:48,200 adding the words sausage mushrooms and bell peppers if the sausage secondary 637 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,760 amendment fails then we're back to the primary amendment which would be 638 00:58:50,760 --> 00:59:02,400 pepperoni mushrooms and bell peppers so in this example of the last bullet we 639 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,960 assume that the secondary amendment passed and then the primary amendment 640 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:16,560 was passed so the main motion now reads as you see there so let's look at 641 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:26,560 graphically okay now there are lots of ways to find out more and let me 642 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,960 encourage you to go surfing when I told y'all did I started trying to find out 643 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,640 things so of course I go on internet and type in parliamentary procedure and the 644 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,320 next thing I learned there's a million YouTube's out there on parliamentary 645 00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,920 procedure there's another organization called the American Institute of 646 00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:46,320 parliamentarians they not only use Roberts but they use what's called the 647 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:52,160 standard code or now the AIP code under the AIP code the motion lay on the 648 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,800 table is a killer motion so that's another example that's mainly used in 649 00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:03,680 the medical communities and in the AIP you're tested over multiple parliamentary 650 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:12,200 authorities as compared to the national you're just doing Roberts now let's do 651 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:17,800 some questions I have about eight minutes left it looks like questions 652 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,840 customer bricks just for clarification because you said lay on the table so if 653 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:28,840 we say I've heard it on our council move to table same thing same thing same 654 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:34,560 thing so we're using it as a killer motion now when do we use the motion to 655 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,320 lay on the table because something else of urgency has risen when you 656 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,160 temporarily set aside the item under consideration the theory being we're 657 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,380 going to later on take it from the table so if you go back to your 658 01:00:46,380 --> 01:00:50,160 parliamentary chart if you look under motions that bring a question again 659 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:54,520 before the assembly the very first one is take from the table so if you were 660 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,600 going to table it and try to kill it you can see how that doesn't work very well 661 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,000 if we can take it from the table and unkill it so it's just the wrong 662 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:09,240 maneuver for the desired objective so just saying in the future if you want to 663 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:16,480 kill it I need to postpone indefinitely and so if you do if it does get moved do 664 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:24,800 you have to because we do a date certain and is that with a postponement that is 665 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:29,360 postponed definitely versus postponed indefinitely so in definitely is the 666 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:34,120 killer okay so go over here to your subsidiary motions go forth from the 667 01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:39,440 bottom and you'll see it says postpone to a certain time or indefinitely see 668 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,520 you say I mean to postpone it to the next regularly scheduled council meeting 669 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:47,640 that would be for later consideration or I move to postpone consideration of this 670 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:54,760 motion until 4 p.m. you know this afternoon you could choose a time today 671 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:59,480 council member I spent thank you thank you Richard for presentation and then 672 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:04,440 also would you be so kind as to email the updated one because I do like the 673 01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,600 example yeah those couple of slides if I can do that thank you be happy to and 674 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,320 then let me tell you one other excellent 675 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,960 instead of this 676 01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:41,600 if you want to carry one around carry around the yellow one it covers about 677 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:47,720 90% of everything you're going to ever see and you'll see the print is larger 678 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:54,320 and there's a lot of white space in it it's designed to be much more user 679 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:59,760 friendly this is written for like a sophomore in high school and this is 680 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:07,240 written for a sophomore in college this the eleventh edition is written to cover 681 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:12,600 the very very very technical and there are many other technical resources 682 01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:17,080 there's a book that Robert wrote called parliamentary law it's a red hard bound 683 01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:24,200 you know leather book and it is much more thorough even than this but he 684 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:29,280 wrote it in 1923 and it is still gold and so the practicing parliamentarians 685 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:34,120 all keep parliamentary law around for when an issue comes up but 90% of the 686 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,360 time you can use this book has a pretty good index you'll see at the back it has 687 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:45,880 some gray pages not as many it has an excellent table of contents and you 688 01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,920 ought to be able to read this front and cover in an hour unless you're really 689 01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,000 getting into it so this is a very quick read if you tried to read this it will 690 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,040 put you to sleep 691 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:08,640 endlessly fascinating topic of tabling so first of all I take it that tabling is 692 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:13,000 like postponing but just within the confines of one meeting right when you're 693 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,000 postponing it's to another meeting if you post excuse me if you lay it on the 694 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:23,160 table it can stay on the table up to the next meeting so if you run out of time 695 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,400 that that was my question it comes up as unfinished business at the next meeting 696 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:31,000 that was now there's several ways that things can become unfinished business 697 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:35,120 you have items on your agenda and you never reached them or again the your own 698 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,880 an item and then someone says I moved to adjourn you know it's 1 a.m. in the 699 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:47,960 morning that would come up as unfinished business all right we want to practice 700 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,200 just for a minute make and I'm gonna call on Deb you're gonna think of a 701 01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:59,680 motion to make okay not too hard a motion and then Don you're gonna make 702 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,320 an amendment to the motion and you don't know what the amendments can be yet why 703 01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:10,760 because we haven't heard her motion yet okay chair recognizes councilperson this 704 01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:19,800 is not real I moved to sell City Hall for $3 crickets crickets there being no 705 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,040 second the motion will not be considered okay that's how it normally work it 706 01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:27,360 doesn't die for a lack of a second it's not considered so this time Gerard 707 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:32,520 you're in charge of making all the seconds okay make your motion yeah I 708 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:40,320 moved to sell City Hall for three dollars thank you chair I move you just 709 01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:45,360 say second second it's one word yes second you could go so far as to say I 710 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:51,600 second the motion just say one second second so what would the mayor say it 711 01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:57,240 is moved and seconded to sell City Hall for three dollars now what would happen 712 01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:01,800 are you ready for the question that's the immediately pending question and we 713 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,600 debate and at some point or right off the bat 714 01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:14,120 councilperson Duff seeks recognition and your motion is make a motion to make it 715 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:23,040 $100 all right so you I move to amend by striking three and inserting 100 that 716 01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:32,440 was very clear okay I moved to strike three insert 100 Gerard second it is 717 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,640 moved and seconded to amend the main motion by striking three and inserting 718 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:41,960 100 so if adopted this is what the chair says if adopted the main motion read to 719 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:47,620 sell City Hall for $100 again we would debate this primary amendment and let's 720 01:06:47,620 --> 01:06:53,000 assume that it passes so the main motion now reads to sell City Council for 721 01:06:53,000 --> 01:07:09,920 $100 City Hall. City Hall. Yeah, not City Council, excuse me. All right, fair, fair. Yeah, I'm seeing the headline of the paper already tomorrow. The council has moved to sell themselves. All right that's 722 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:14,680 essentially how we make a motion and we amend it so I always say I move to strike 723 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:19,640 and insert and so it's very clear that way you're not leaving it up to the 724 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:24,600 chair to know where you want to insert your proposed language because this is 725 01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,960 an easy one with dollars but sometimes we have other words so where does he put 726 01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,040 it does he put it at the end stick at the middle do they put it between this 727 01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,080 word or put it over here between this word so give direction that way everyone 728 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:44,880 knows exactly what's happening all righty well thank you all for having me and if 729 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,680 I can ever be of assistance to you I wanted to give you two other things if 730 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:55,840 I get them that I wanted to suggest you do on your parley chart we already wrote 731 01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:01,920 in suspend the rules and we we wrote in the word parliamentary rules and if you 732 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:08,720 slide across to the column that says vote what did we see while ago y'all have 733 01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:14,800 adopted a special rule of order it says it takes four votes so write for under 734 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:23,800 vote you can just strike through two-thirds and put four and then 735 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:31,440 depending on how many people are at the meeting that could either be 57% or 736 01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:37,000 two-thirds or unanimous if there's only four people there the other change I 737 01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:44,000 want to give you is over on notes under note for this has to do with let's where 738 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:54,200 we find footnote for on the chart anybody find it reconsider so dot on the 739 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:59,480 bottom right here and a reconsider you'll see a four out in front I want 740 01:08:59,480 --> 01:09:04,000 you to come up on the right hand side where it says notes and you'll see in 741 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,720 the second sentence that says this motion can be made only by one who vote 742 01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,800 on the prevailing side we know that's true and then from there on down I want 743 01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:18,640 you to line it out and you're going to insert no later than the next meeting 744 01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:24,320 since you've adopted a special rule on that and remember it's no later than the 745 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:29,840 next meeting but only if it's first you first notify the city manager so you can 746 01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:35,200 comply with the open meetings that so those are the three additions I would 747 01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:40,120 give you to your chart okay well thank you so much and if I can ever be help 748 01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,520 y'all let me know 749 01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:56,080 all right riveting as that was I'm sure no but I did want to follow up that was 750 01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,400 back in August and I'm sure y'all all aware last December the City Council 751 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:07,320 took up the tie vote issue it came before them December 18th I believe it 752 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:12,160 was Julie was the one that spoke that night they passed an ordinance that 753 01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,320 changed the rule that said that if there's a tie vote it'll be brought up 754 01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,840 here a second time and if it's a tie vote again it will then go to council as 755 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:25,320 a recommendation of denial so for those of y'all that it wasn't answered that 756 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,820 but I did want to bring that back so that was passed last December and it had 757 01:10:27,820 --> 01:10:32,760 a 14-day kind of time wait period on it so but it would be effective now so 758 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:37,800 that's now the tie vote provision that y'all specifically are operating under so 759 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,840 I think one of the other one of the other questions that was kind of thrown 760 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:47,560 out to us ahead of time was when is it appropriate to call the question to kind 761 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:53,840 of cut off debate and move it move for the group to vote on the underlying 762 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,640 motion our rules of procedure actually cover that specifically as you heard in 763 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,840 the video council has directed that all boards and commissions if you don't have 764 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:09,360 a special rule you follow the council rules of procedure so under that under 765 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:14,400 seven point twelve part twelve specifically you can't call the 766 01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:19,040 question until everybody has had a chance to speak at least once but then 767 01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:25,320 after that is when it is appropriate and if that is done it takes a second and a 768 01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:32,680 two-thirds vote to cut off debate so with that I will stand for any further 769 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:42,400 questions pressure back thank you chair thanks tray a couple of things when 770 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:48,080 we're through with the public hearing agenda item and the chair closes it to 771 01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:54,800 the public and then calls for either a motion or commentary I think is it the 772 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:59,400 first one to the button that gets the recognition sometimes my friend next to 773 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:05,920 me Tim beats me to go for motion I'd really like to speak on it I wanted to 774 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,160 get some debate out there before we even consider a motion to vote so is it just 775 01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:13,400 a matter of whoever pushes the button first then and if he pushes it first for 776 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:19,760 moves to approve or deny whatever then we have to go to a second before any 777 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:26,080 commentary typically the recognition will be in the order that it is requested 778 01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,760 okay there is some discretion on the chairs part but typically that's the way 779 01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:34,880 it goes now that said as mr. Hayes pointed out in the video the standard way 780 01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:39,920 is to have the motion first and debate followings okay so so it's not in other 781 01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,600 words it's not wrong to have it that way to have the motion on the table first 782 01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:47,200 and then the debate and discussion as you have the motion on the table okay but 783 01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:52,280 if I were to hit the button that wanted to discuss it first right then we would 784 01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:58,600 probably do that before we would move to make a motion on approval or denial it'd 785 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:04,000 be up to the chair but yeah okay well wasn't what Mr. Smith picture was isn't 786 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:08,840 what what mr. Hayes said he said that technically no debate is supposed to 787 01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,840 happen until there's actually you have to get them a motion on the floor to 788 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:18,800 actually have a debate I wasn't sure I heard that though that's why yeah it 789 01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,240 seemed he was strongly suggesting that when the public hearing is closed a 790 01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:26,720 motion happens and then we debate that motion and that's fine but me I just 791 01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,440 wanted to be clear on that so okay Larry move faster and then the only other 792 01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:34,220 thing that is that's standard practice under Robert's rules I'm kind of as he 793 01:13:34,220 --> 01:13:38,640 mentioned the rules are supposed to be here to help not here to hinder and one 794 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,120 of the things that a lot of especially local governments is that they've kind 795 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,800 of gotten away from what was the standard of motion followed by debate 796 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,440 and even I mean I'm sure most of y'all watch City Council you know that a lot 797 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:52,440 of times even though in the debating first before they have the motion but 798 01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:56,320 technically under the rules the motion should come first okay the only other 799 01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:04,080 thing I had was it indicated that to postpone and definitely killed it can 800 01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:09,880 kill yeah and what makes me ask didn't we postpone indefinitely the tree coat 801 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,840 thing because I sure didn't and I seconded it but I didn't intend to kill 802 01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:19,840 that Richard did trying to recall it seemed like we postpone indefinitely but 803 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:25,200 my thought was we're gonna bring this up later not kill it I've got to go back I 804 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,280 don't remember if it was postponed indefinitely or table indefinitely it 805 01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:34,760 was it I've got to go back and I think I might motion I'm pretty sure I think it 806 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:41,640 was postponed postponed till date uncertain which is which is which is 807 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,660 post I remember Jerry mentioning this it's not it's not indefinitely it's 808 01:14:44,660 --> 01:14:48,880 postponed definitely but we just don't have a date correct okay it's a death so 809 01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:59,560 we didn't kill that it's coming back next month Christopher Smith what is 810 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,280 Robert's was water because that's one thing we have had especially when we had 811 01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:07,280 that they're really late media a couple months ago whenever we have you have a 812 01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:12,680 public hearing occurring what's Robert's was waters what do they what do they say 813 01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:18,120 on public hearing and discourse between you know the person speak the you know 814 01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:23,120 the citizens speaking at the mic to us you know as the Commission what's the 815 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:27,360 what's the traditional standpoint of making it efficient to make sure that 816 01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,960 the public gets all their comments in without so no that's what ended up 817 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,000 happening one point in time as we had it was getting pretty late and he got to 818 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:38,120 the point where he just said hey look Commission's just hold off on any 819 01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:43,920 comment back to you know citizens unless there's a clarifying question and then 820 01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,720 wait and we'll address all questions at the very very end as Robert's reward or 821 01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:52,800 typically a lot of that's gonna be in the discretion of the chair as mr. Hayes 822 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,240 pointed out a lot of times when you're trying to do stuff like that if you just 823 01:15:55,240 --> 01:16:00,080 decide you're gonna set a time limit on certain items or something like that it 824 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:05,360 can help but that would be at the discretion of the chair in the body not 825 01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:09,920 directly right directed directed time right directing time and I mean there's 826 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,000 there's decorum rules that councils you know yeah passed about how you're not 827 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,560 supposed to it's not supposed to be a one-on-one conversation so much as the 828 01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:22,440 person standing here supposed to address you all and stuff like that but that's 829 01:16:22,440 --> 01:16:28,600 more decorum related than it is time management related 830 01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:33,600 Chris Charles thank you chair Trey we don't have any procedural rules on 831 01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,520 addressing public and a public hearing do you not that's what I'm asking you oh 832 01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:44,400 you're asking me yes well we have the rules that council passed regarding the 833 01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:51,600 like open mic provisions they passed those last year because they wanted to 834 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:58,280 have interaction and so well I don't know those as well off the top my head 835 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:03,960 yeah my question is pertaining to public hearing items not not open mic because 836 01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:08,680 we don't have open mic here all right okay but we have public hearing 837 01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:15,320 discussion so do we not have any procedural rules in place for I mean you 838 01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:17,720 would you just fall to the default at that point y'all don't have y'all don't 839 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,160 have special rules I'll put it that way right yes so we would default to council 840 01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:26,320 right what are those rules those rules that you can ask clarifying questions 841 01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:33,920 yes ma'am so I found this extremely helpful I have a couple questions some 842 01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:39,000 were addressed by the other commissioners how does someone actually 843 01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:43,480 call a point of order and do they need to be recognized prior to doing that is 844 01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:47,920 that they can just interject point of order is that can you tell me more about 845 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:51,600 calling a point of order if it's gonna write a point of order can be called at 846 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:56,120 any time in that meeting up to the next meeting so it doesn't have to be done at 847 01:17:56,120 --> 01:18:00,600 that exact moment but if it if you move on to the next meeting and it hasn't 848 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:05,200 been called you considered to have waived your objection to the point of 849 01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:10,440 order I was thinking more specifically if if there is a personal interaction 850 01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:17,760 between two commissioners that that's of not a good nature can any one of the 851 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,480 commissioners just say a point of order or does that have to come from the chair 852 01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:24,800 or no it can come from any of them yes sir and they can interject they don't 853 01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,720 have to be recognized right they can just interject right one order and that 854 01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:33,080 kind of shuts down puts pause on that what's gonna show you and then you'll 855 01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:39,480 recognize the point of order and and see what they believe was the because the 856 01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:42,280 point of order just is kind of like standing up and saying objection then 857 01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,160 you've got to say okay well what is your point of order what is your objection 858 01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:50,600 perfect and I mean sometimes it's more obvious than others obviously but then 859 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:56,400 it would be up to you know you to decide if there was a procedural problem got 860 01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,360 you that's helpful and then the other thing is when there is a vote to 861 01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:06,120 postpone indefinitely or definitely how does that work with keeping the item 862 01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:10,400 open or closed can it happen while the public hearing is still open and if it 863 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:15,240 does that it remains open or doesn't need to have the public hearing closed 864 01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:19,440 and then postpone and renoticed how does that work well if you were to open the 865 01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:22,560 public meeting and postpone it definitely and you can do that one of 866 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:26,600 two ways you can either postpone it to a date certain or to an event certain and 867 01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:30,400 a lot of times council has done that in the past where they'll say look we need 868 01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:35,360 more information we need a report that says X it says we're gonna postpone it 869 01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:41,680 to an event certain and that event is receiving the report on X and so in that 870 01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,640 way you can keep it open without postponing it indefinitely but it's not 871 01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:49,800 to a date certain either and if you do that it would we recommend go ahead and 872 01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:54,200 open the public meeting and then if you're going to continue public comment 873 01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,080 and have it again you would postpone it during the public meeting without 874 01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:01,560 closing the public meeting and that way it doesn't have to be renoticed but if 875 01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,880 for some reason or after the chair closed the public meeting then it's 876 01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,400 determined you know we probably should go ahead and postpone it that's still a 877 01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:12,040 possibility this has to be renoticed right bring back the item certainly yeah 878 01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:16,440 if you wanted it if it were renoticed then then yes you could bring it back two 879 01:20:16,440 --> 01:20:23,160 more questions as the chair if there is routiness in the audience what do I do 880 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:27,720 routing this in the audience yeah there's some heckling recently okay and I 881 01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:33,560 don't know like do I call a point of order on decorum what how do I stop any 882 01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:39,480 potential heckling you can request that the audience quiet down and if they 883 01:20:39,480 --> 01:20:43,880 don't tip I don't I don't know do y'all have an officer here in the evenings you 884 01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:49,200 can ask the officer to have them removed and then lastly there's I think City 885 01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:54,080 Council has a decorum slide that's posted before the meetings right they do 886 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:58,520 they do that before the the open mic session open mic right okay I was 887 01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:03,120 wondering if it would be helpful to have that same sort of disclaimer to our 888 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:07,520 audience that City Council is something we could look into yeah I know they do 889 01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:11,520 that before open mic but yeah that's all the questions I have super helpful 890 01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:16,000 Commissioner Smith yeah one I did bring up after one of those meetings I did 891 01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,800 bring up they do have that slide because there were there they did get to the 892 01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,760 point where some of those public hearings where we've had people said you 893 01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:28,960 guys are a bunch of crooks it's like I saw this thing Friday I haven't seen 894 01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:35,280 this project yet why am I a crook all right in it so the we can do we can do 895 01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:38,760 an event sir I never I never knew we could do it an event certain so like the 896 01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:44,920 right I guess just to give an example we had a case where at university right 897 01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,440 there in front of that that subway at their university in 288 there was a 898 01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:52,460 storage facility that was being used as a an auto repair shop and we end up we 899 01:21:52,460 --> 01:21:56,960 end up voting on to postpone until a date certain and said well you know will 900 01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,320 month be enough time for you to get this done for him to get these certain things 901 01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,980 that we could have just said we want to postpone this to event certain of you 902 01:22:03,980 --> 01:22:06,920 removing the cars off the lot which is what we were specifically postponing it 903 01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:10,760 and giving him time to do so we can do an event that would be a good that would 904 01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:15,680 be an example of something saying to a person coming to get a something 905 01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,720 approved by or a recommendation to give it to be so to counsel by putting a 906 01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,800 zoning commission we could say we're gonna postpone this item until event 907 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:27,760 certain of you are moving cars off a lot we can do that it'll be harder in a 908 01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,960 situation where you're dealing with a third party member of the public like 909 01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:34,760 that than it is like well then certain can't counsel asking staff hey go get 910 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:39,760 that and bring it back so it's better to ask a little more captive than so it's 911 01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,760 better to do it just for just for internal matters rather than more so yes 912 01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:48,360 okay thank you I do not see any other questions thank you very much for happy 913 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:53,680 to help feeling them the next item would be to be provide clarification on what 914 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:58,360 type of discussion is allowed during work session do not know who's 915 01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:14,980 presenting on this one I know these items were on have been on the list for 916 01:23:14,980 --> 01:23:19,960 quite a while and I so I don't even know how it was brought up I'm just trying to 917 01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:25,760 trying to clear the back backlog I think yeah I think we can just do it like a 918 01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:34,600 Q&A real fast on this this is possible well this ought to be fun they're gonna 919 01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:39,200 be all for Richard mr. Ellis thank you chair well actually just to answer your 920 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:44,720 question Richard I brought it up a hundred years ago because yeah because 921 01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:51,000 it seemed like we were having quite a discussion in work session and then much 922 01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:57,240 less discussion out in the public sect I think that's changed since I had brought 923 01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:01,640 that up on the matrix a hundred years ago but I definitely was asking for 924 01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:06,280 clarity mainly from legal about what is it that we should be discussing in work 925 01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:11,440 session and what should we be saving for public meeting that that was the that 926 01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:17,760 was my that was how it originally started and it was probably 2016 but so 927 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:26,480 I'm glad we're getting to it honestly that's kind of broad well I think 928 01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:28,920 there's been situations where we're almost coming to a point where we 929 01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:33,200 understand every vote in here and then we get the public session we're like 930 01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,200 we've already kind of discussed all this and the public is not having they have 931 01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:40,680 an opportunity to hear this but I think to your point it's like we walk in we 932 01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:44,240 get a presentation there's no discussion we're ready to vote right after 933 01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:48,400 presentation that's what you're kind of alluding to where the public's not 934 01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:53,960 actually being privy to our discussion on the item right yeah thank you chair 935 01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:59,080 yeah I guess my point is is how much are we supposed to be figuring out in work 936 01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:06,760 session and is that even written anywhere is that you know I'll take a 937 01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:10,000 swing at it while Tracey's looking at okay thank you Matt Grindman with the 938 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,840 city attorney's office I've represented a number of cities and it's done a 939 01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:18,040 little differently in every city I think just as far as best practices that it's 940 01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,360 within the discretion of the Commission how they want to do that you can get as 941 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:26,120 much into as much detail as you want to at the work session the best practice 942 01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,720 I've seen is to really go after the facts and the details in the work 943 01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:33,440 session answer questions about the project and then your feelings about the 944 01:25:33,440 --> 01:25:36,640 project what you've you know that kind of thought is better up safe for a public 945 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,920 hearing type of session where you can talk about that to me work session is 946 01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,880 let's answer the questions let's figure out what exactly the project is and get 947 01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,840 that type of detail in this meeting and then go to the open session with the 948 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,920 public and talk about that a little bit more how you actually want to vote and 949 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:56,240 explain your vote at that point right and I guess I'll kind of support what 950 01:25:56,240 --> 01:26:00,600 Mac said if you go to the like the procedural rules when it talks about the 951 01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:04,720 called workshop meetings work sessions same kind of thing is that it talks 952 01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:09,600 about when they're supposed to be set stuff like that but in there is that the 953 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,560 purpose of the workshop meeting is to discuss or explore matters of interest 954 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:16,280 to the city some other things it says these meetings are to be informational 955 01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:22,040 and normally no final actions taken so really the work session is for you to 956 01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:27,000 gain information you that you can ask questions but your debate especially 957 01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:31,680 among one another is more so for the final when it comes to you before for 958 01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:35,800 the final action in the open session that in the evenings 959 01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,880 your shoulders thank you chair okay that helps a lot especially yeah the way it's 960 01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:45,520 written there because back then that is that kind of was what was happening is 961 01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:50,200 most of the debate was happening in here and it just felt wrong then we would get 962 01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,400 to public session and as chair said then we'd get there and we'd hear the 963 01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:58,360 presentation again and there would be little discussion sometimes because we 964 01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:03,600 just had it in here and it seems like this should be more clarifying gathering 965 01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:07,360 I guess is isn't it put it right I mean that's it's almost what you just read 966 01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:11,160 there informational gathering informational gathering yes ma'am okay 967 01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:14,400 thank you Mr. Beck thank you chair now for me work 968 01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,560 sessions always been to clarify to make sure that I understand what staff has 969 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:22,680 reported that I've got that straight so I'm not making an idiot of myself when I 970 01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:27,320 get out in the public session but usually if we work things out in here and then we 971 01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:30,280 don't discuss it much out there it's usually been when there isn't much 972 01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:35,160 public input anyway when there's public input that that they bring those kind of 973 01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:39,680 things up so that those those kind of debates I think do happen but for me 974 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:46,040 work sessions to make sure I understand what is being presented to us that we're 975 01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:50,280 gonna be taking to the public session yeah and I remember back when you 976 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:54,200 probably brought this up we would get checked by city say we need to wait to 977 01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,280 talk about that and it was kind of ambiguous of why we were being told to 978 01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:02,600 wait on some things and so the clarification is extremely helpful do 979 01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:07,560 you have any other questions on what we can talk about during work session or 980 01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:12,440 what we should talk about perfect in this work session yeah in this work 981 01:28:12,440 --> 01:28:18,600 session yeah perfect that brings conclusion to the work session reports 982 01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:24,240 item two the next item for business is work session one clarification of agenda 983 01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,720 items and I think we have a couple clarifications I'll ask Richard to 984 01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:37,200 elaborate on under consent item 3a that item is being pulled and will be placed 985 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:41,120 on the next the next meeting 986 01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:53,360 the only other the only other correction Haley will be handling public hearing 987 01:28:53,360 --> 01:29:02,680 number public hearing 5b Cindy and home sick with pneumonia and so Haley's 988 01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:08,060 Haley's filling in just to reiterate make sure everyone heard consent agenda 989 01:29:08,060 --> 01:29:16,600 3a is being pulled and agenda item 5b is being presented by Haley not Cindy and 990 01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:20,200 I'm sorry one more there was a correction to the minutes that we that we 991 01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:24,320 handed out today just to make sure everyone has that 992 01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:29,320 mr. Beck thank you chair yeah just a minor deal I noticed that in the one 993 01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:35,120 that we're eliminating the day that fp 18025 fp always meant final play it to 994 01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,960 me but when we go down here in the works it's preliminary play it so yeah it was 995 01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:42,040 a that was that was the error so is it a final pad or is it a preliminary it's a 996 01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:45,440 final play okay okay thank you mr. Smith thank you 997 01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:50,240 sure like whenever we vote on this both the consent agenda I guess since it's already 998 01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:55,240 gonna be there's gonna be announcements that there's amendments to the agenda we 999 01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,520 don't need to vote saying I make a motion to approve the consent agenda less 1000 01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:02,880 you know item a we just like motion to prove the consent agenda and that's it 1001 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,720 because it's already been removed by staff I think so the chair is gonna make 1002 01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,280 it clear I think before the vote that this is not I'm a that's okay so we can 1003 01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:15,840 say motion still this motion to approve consent agenda correct commissioner 1004 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:20,200 Ellis thank you chair with regard to approval of minutes since we have this 1005 01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:23,320 now in front of us are we just approving minutes we don't have to mention the 1006 01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:32,480 change correct correct it'll be the minutes as presented here perfect I'm 1007 01:30:32,480 --> 01:30:38,760 already feeling our sessions going more smoothly now this is good so that brings 1008 01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:45,960 us to consent agenda items B does anyone have any questions on item 3b the final 1009 01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:48,760 plot from Haley 1010 01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:57,000 seeing no questions we'll go on to item 4a items for individual consideration I 1011 01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:02,680 will invite Julie to present 1012 01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:12,640 good evening I'm Julie Wyatt give me just a minute while I pull up the 1013 01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,600 presentations 1014 01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:40,640 right okay this is PE 18 3 symbiosis edition this might look a little 1015 01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:47,280 familiar to you we looked at it earlier this year the the the subject property 1016 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:53,200 is located near Dallas Drive on Johnson Street as you can see right here it's 1017 01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:57,600 outlined in yellow there was a plot approved for this property a final plat 1018 01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:03,360 approved in July of 2016 as part of that plot there were some public 1019 01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,880 improvements that were reviewed were reviewed and those included perimeter 1020 01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:15,900 street improvements storm drain extensions and a sidewalk and and that 1021 01:32:15,900 --> 01:32:20,360 plot was never filed so now they're coming back for a an extension of that 1022 01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,240 final plot and I know over the summer we actually talked about another extension 1023 01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:30,640 for this one so so our analysis for the request is based out of sub chapter 16 1024 01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:37,960 of the debt and development code section 35 dot 16 dot 12 dot 2 dot f states that 1025 01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:42,120 if a final plot is not filed within two years of approval it becomes null and 1026 01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:45,680 void unless the planning and zoning Commission grants an extension for good 1027 01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:52,840 cause as I said before final plot FP 16 it was approved in 2016 so it was set to 1028 01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:59,160 expire in July of 2018 at that time the owner requested an extension of that 1029 01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:03,160 plat he believed that there were economic factors that would make the 1030 01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:08,440 project more economically feasible in the future this Commission did approve 1031 01:33:08,440 --> 01:33:16,640 that extension a six-month extension to January 11th of 2019 on November 30th of 1032 01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:21,560 last year we received a request from the applicant for an additional extension 1033 01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:27,000 again citing the same reasons that the construction costs associated with the 1034 01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,520 development of the site had not been feasible up until that point but he 1035 01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:37,120 expected those factors to change however in that intervening time staff has not 1036 01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:41,880 received any documentation that there was further progress made toward 1037 01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:46,120 completion nor did we receive any communication from the applicant between 1038 01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:55,440 July and November so based upon that staff recommends denial of the request 1039 01:33:55,440 --> 01:34:00,200 there have been two extensions or there has been an extension that was approved 1040 01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:04,400 and since that time there have been two updates to the criteria manuals for 1041 01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:08,680 public improvements particularly in terms of right-of-way widths and also 1042 01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:13,440 pavement sections and since there has no not been any further progress toward 1043 01:34:13,440 --> 01:34:18,920 completion we do recommend denial a denial of the request would would 1044 01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:22,680 essentially mean that the final plat expires as well as the preliminary plat 1045 01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:27,600 and so they would have to start over apply for a preliminary plat civil 1046 01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,120 engineering plans and a final plat to ensure that that development would meet 1047 01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,400 current standards so I'll stand for any questions 1048 01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:44,160 Krisha Sanchez okay so they got just one extension right okay so I know when we 1049 01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:48,540 had this discussion I think one of the questions is was it six months was in 1050 01:34:48,540 --> 01:34:53,240 enough or should we go kind of full year or something if I remember that 1051 01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:59,680 discussion so I guess my question is and you've said he at this point they have 1052 01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:05,880 not met with you at all since since that other than submitting the extension they 1053 01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,880 submitted the extension and actually the the developer came by to meet with me 1054 01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:13,880 today and he should be here tonight so he should be available to answer maybe 1055 01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:17,580 some of more questions that you would have regarding his plans and the 1056 01:35:17,580 --> 01:35:26,120 proposed development I guess my question is also projects within the city itself 1057 01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:30,060 and because of all the infrastructure that's involved that they have to take 1058 01:35:30,060 --> 01:35:34,760 care of what's your is that make it harder for for those projects to go 1059 01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:40,440 through as opposed to projects outside I mean to achieve as opposed to more 1060 01:35:40,440 --> 01:35:46,320 projects in the periphery of the city where it seems like they're building a 1061 01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:50,640 whole lot and things go move a lot faster as opposed to projects inside the 1062 01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:56,480 city where they have to deal more with existing infrastructure I don't know 1063 01:35:56,480 --> 01:36:01,120 what the surrounding municipalities with their specific requirements are or the 1064 01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:06,120 county I will say typically a municipality does require concurrent 1065 01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:11,800 public improvements with any development so it's not out of the norm for the city 1066 01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:15,360 to require those public improvements associated with the development and 1067 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:19,840 often those are meant to serve that development so for instance in this in 1068 01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:23,760 this instance the sidewalk would serve the development those street 1069 01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:27,200 improvements and then especially that drainage would be something that would 1070 01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:35,160 be needed to serve that that property and a any uses on it 1071 01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:45,520 okay I guess I miss on what I guess I'm getting that is is it a little bit the 1072 01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:48,440 we're talking about denting itself I'm just saying that the projects that we 1073 01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:55,000 see going on the periphery to me seem to go pretty quick now the ones in internal 1074 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:59,040 within the city and well they're both in the city but one of us in the 1075 01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:02,880 periphery is it a little bit more difficult to achieve those kind of 1076 01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:06,640 projects I mean being that you're there playing because of the fact that they're 1077 01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:10,480 in in the interior part of the city I think I understand you're talking about 1078 01:37:10,480 --> 01:37:17,840 infill versus infill right um you know I would say each each site is unique they 1079 01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:23,240 all have their special circumstances associated with it on the on the fringe 1080 01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:29,400 of the urban core often there are water and sewer line extensions that that are 1081 01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:33,040 needed whereas maybe in the internal there aren't their water and sewer may 1082 01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:39,800 be available so it Richard may want to weigh in but I really don't see um I 1083 01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:45,160 don't see necessarily a break or a difference between because every side is 1084 01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:51,880 unique no the only thing I would say and even with this one I don't recall there 1085 01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:57,340 being a large you know substantial utility extensions I don't think there 1086 01:37:57,340 --> 01:38:01,520 are a lot of public improvements associated with this I would call 1087 01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:07,400 quickly I think the main were the storm sewer extension right and I think he 1088 01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:11,200 also mentioned tearing up the road or something and then having rebuild that 1089 01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:15,760 section of the road I can't remember exactly well if a road within the city 1090 01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:19,920 of Denton doesn't isn't developed to our current standards which is a certain 1091 01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:25,000 width certain pavement thickness and curb and gutter and sidewalk then then 1092 01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:30,280 any development adjacent to that road has to complete that section so those 1093 01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:35,200 rules are applying in this case and that the that perimeter street improvement 1094 01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,560 would be required as a result of the development okay 1095 01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:45,040 Christian back thank you chair so help me understand why this is before PNC 1096 01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:49,480 tonight simply because they haven't acted on this and you're letting us know 1097 01:38:49,480 --> 01:38:54,040 because they haven't acted on it we're gonna kill this or if they come forward 1098 01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:59,080 asking for more time well they have come forward asking for another extension but 1099 01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:03,320 they haven't provided you the necessary documentation well they haven't they 1100 01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:07,080 have not moved forward with board progress on the development so the 1101 01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:10,880 development contracts any of those requirements associated with the public 1102 01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:17,040 improvement part to get it to plat filing and ultimate development so so 1103 01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:20,400 this is before you tonight because it is at the Planning and Zoning Commission's 1104 01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:26,520 discretion within sub chapter 16 that you can vote to extend an expiring plat 1105 01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:34,360 for good cause so so tonight you'll vote whether to extend that plat or or allow 1106 01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:39,800 it to expire essentially or extend it with with them but the applicant will be 1107 01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:43,440 here to stay this case okay all right thanks 1108 01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:49,640 picture Smith thank you so you it's in the backup and it says in the in the 1109 01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:54,840 applicants letter as well but what do they mean by economic factors do you 1110 01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,960 does do you guys see ever made that clear what he he's referencing very very 1111 01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:01,800 vague term of economic factors and of course we can ask the applicants not but 1112 01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:06,040 I never know city staff knew that I am not aware of what his meaning is behind 1113 01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:11,280 that so okay and if we were to if we were to give him another extension what 1114 01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:16,280 would city staffs recommendations be for that would be six months would it be 1115 01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:21,520 I'll confirm in the code but I think it allows for two six-month extensions if 1116 01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,760 I'm not mistaken unless I'm thinking of a different different section of the 1117 01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:28,160 code but we'll clarify we'll clarify okay thank you 1118 01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:36,480 Krishna Alice thank you chair so this is expiring January 11th I think right and 1119 01:40:36,480 --> 01:40:40,680 it's gonna follow the old criteria manuals yes it would follow what was 1120 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:46,720 approved in 2016 and seeing no movement in securing financing and going forward 1121 01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:54,920 with anything just kind of blaze that okay thank you commissioner Burnetta and 1122 01:40:54,920 --> 01:41:00,520 I just wanted to clarify so so the economic factors were vague was the lack 1123 01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:05,360 of completion of the you know public infrastructure is that a factor and then 1124 01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:11,360 postponing it is the process the way the debt and development code lays out for 1125 01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:17,840 for projects within the city is that once a plat is approved they still can't 1126 01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:22,160 move forward with with construction they then have to get a plat filed and in 1127 01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:27,860 order to get a plat file they've got to do certain have certain contracts 1128 01:41:27,860 --> 01:41:33,720 executed as well as bonds and and other agreements associated with those public 1129 01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:38,200 improvements so they have to go through that portion and then that plat can be 1130 01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:53,200 filed to allow them to move forward with development we're gonna look through the 1131 01:41:53,200 --> 01:42:00,740 code and make sure that we're giving you correct direction so well before the 1132 01:42:00,740 --> 01:42:03,960 regular session I'll have that answer for you sir 1133 01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:08,800 Krisha Burnetta so when we discuss the the two extensions are the two 1134 01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:12,840 extensions limited by time like they asked for six months before they could 1135 01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:17,000 have previously asked for a year would they have been eligible for two years or 1136 01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:22,440 simply two extensions I don't I don't think the code is that prescriptive in 1137 01:42:22,440 --> 01:42:27,040 in how this can move forward but I want to verify to make sure that we we give 1138 01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:36,760 you good information so hopefully the code will will tell us I do not see any 1139 01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:43,720 other questions thank you Julie you are up next to that moves us on to public 1140 01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:50,760 hearing item 5a z 18 - 0 0 1 1 a and Julie why it's presenting I have some 1141 01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:55,000 handouts for this one so I'm gonna I'm gonna hand on a commissioner back and if 1142 01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,720 you'll pass them along 1143 01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:24,800 we received some additional neighbor response this week so I wanted to make 1144 01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:28,760 sure you had all of the available information 1145 01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:58,800 okay 1146 01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:48,320 okay all right so I'm presenting to you the 1811 agave ranch so the request 1147 01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:56,760 before you is to rezone the property from rural residential 5 to neighborhood 1148 01:44:56,760 --> 01:45:02,480 residential 4 and also an initial zoning district designation of nr 4 on 1149 01:45:02,480 --> 01:45:07,920 approximately 92 acres of land subject property is situated on the in the 1150 01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:14,080 northeast side of town it is outside just outside the loop off of FM 428 also 1151 01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:23,000 known as Sherman Drive so under current zoning there's actually a split zoning 1152 01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:31,720 on the subject property adjacent to FM 428 is is an RD 5 zoning district to the 1153 01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:38,640 east of that is an RD 5x district that was annexed at a later time so so they 1154 01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:42,920 essentially followed the same rules that that kind of rural residential minimum 1155 01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:46,600 5 acres but but there is a distinction and that one of them is sort of a 1156 01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:51,620 place-holding zoning designation and one is is an actual zoning designation so 1157 01:45:51,620 --> 01:45:57,080 here is the current zoning there are there's a there's some surrounding 1158 01:45:57,080 --> 01:46:02,240 zoning districts I just want you to take a look at as you get closer to town you 1159 01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:08,040 have in our for adjacent to the subject property the south as well as across FM 1160 01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:15,860 428 there is CMG at the corner of the loop and FM 428 that's supposed to be a 1161 01:46:15,860 --> 01:46:22,380 commercial center there across FM 428 a recent nr 6 was approved with overlay 1162 01:46:22,380 --> 01:46:29,460 conditions and then where where the school property is that's an nr 2 so we 1163 01:46:29,460 --> 01:46:33,960 kind of have a variety as you go further out you've got that RD 5x that is once 1164 01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:37,080 again that place holding zoning designation once that property was 1165 01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:41,760 annexed into the city so they are proposing to extend that neighborhood 1166 01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:45,840 residential for and to zone the entire property with that neighborhood 1167 01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:51,960 residential for that's the proposal today so here is their proposed concept 1168 01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:56,240 plan I'll say always with a word of caution that if this is a concept plan 1169 01:46:56,240 --> 01:47:01,440 you know as if the zoning is approved it would be you know they could develop in 1170 01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:06,000 accordance with that that zoning district the densities and the use is 1171 01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:11,520 permitted within it so as they're proposing and on the 92 gross acres of 1172 01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:21,880 land 368 homes generally kind of a mix of lot sizes with some drainage areas 1173 01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:27,000 want to take a quick comparison of the use is permitted under current zoning and 1174 01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:32,800 then the nr 4 which is the proposed RD 5x as I said before is one of our 1175 01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:37,640 agricultural our rural agricultural uses so it does permit residential uses a 1176 01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:41,480 couple of commercial land uses particularly those that you typically see 1177 01:47:41,480 --> 01:47:46,720 in agricultural areas things like equestrian facilities a bed and 1178 01:47:46,720 --> 01:47:50,840 breakfast with a limitation kennels veterinary clinics so those are the types 1179 01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:57,080 of uses you see in RD 5 as well as some institutional uses and our floor is one 1180 01:47:57,080 --> 01:48:03,400 of our residential zoning categories so it's primarily focused on that that 1181 01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:09,920 residential component with with single-family dwellings permitted attached 1182 01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:14,480 single-family dwellings with an SUP duplexes have a limitation but they are 1183 01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:19,760 permitted so so and then some institutional uses those are typically 1184 01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:25,440 required with an S or require an SUP associated with it the general 1185 01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:30,480 regulations that's the development scale RD 5x the minimum lot size is that 5 1186 01:48:30,480 --> 01:48:37,040 acres minimum lot width of 200 feet maximum lot coverage of 15 percent I 1187 01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:41,680 believe you can go over that for an ag use for something like a barn in our 4 1188 01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:47,200 is a minimum lot area 7,000 square feet for subdivisions under 2 acres of 1189 01:48:47,200 --> 01:48:51,440 course this is a 2a this is more than 2 acres so if this was approved all they 1190 01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:55,800 would have to follow is that maximum density of 4 dwelling units per acre 1191 01:48:55,800 --> 01:49:01,240 maximum lot coverage and that's all impervious surface is 60% maximum building 1192 01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:08,160 height is 40 feet so the criteria for approval for zoning cases is laid out 1193 01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:12,360 in subchapter 3 of the Denton Development Code the first is does the 1194 01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:17,600 proposed rezoning conform to the future land use element of the Denton plan so 1195 01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:23,960 Denton plan 2030 calls for calls this a rural area the intent is to maintain 1196 01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:27,880 that rural character along the city's edge with development of farms and 1197 01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:31,520 ranches and very low density rural residential and conservation 1198 01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:37,640 development the proposed and our four does not meet this this the intent of 1199 01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:41,600 this future land use designation but we also want to make sure that we look at 1200 01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:45,800 our comprehensive plan as a whole you can see that there are other future land 1201 01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:55,980 use designations very close to this oh sorry there is community mixed use that 1202 01:49:55,980 --> 01:50:01,940 kind of conforms to that existing zoning pattern at the corner of the loop and FM 1203 01:50:01,940 --> 01:50:08,180 428 low density resident low residential near moderate residential to the 1204 01:50:08,180 --> 01:50:11,720 southwest you can see there's there's a mixture of future land use designations 1205 01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:17,960 in that general area so when when a request does not conform to the future 1206 01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:21,960 land use designation we kick to a whole other criteria for approval and it 1207 01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:25,960 allows a little more scrutiny on the property and on the project and that's 1208 01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:31,440 section thirty five dot three dot three dot a these are listed here and they're 1209 01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:37,600 they're they're described in detail in your backup as well as our analysis we'll 1210 01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:48,320 go over we'll go over some of these together in the in the presentation so 1211 01:50:48,320 --> 01:50:52,840 for criteria one and two it really talks about what are the existing land uses and 1212 01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:58,120 zoning and what is the impact to future development so this subject property is 1213 01:50:58,120 --> 01:51:03,000 located in an area that is there's here's the subject property here that's 1214 01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:08,560 near rural but but urbanizing areas as we've seen with recent zoning cases as 1215 01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:13,800 well as development so all of these yellow dots are either recent zoning 1216 01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:19,920 cases or or or recent development and you can see that there's a lot of a lot 1217 01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:24,800 of growth pushing toward the north side of Denton and and that includes the 1218 01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:30,360 northeast side of Denton so so as that interior part of our city has filled up 1219 01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:35,000 it's really pushing toward that urban fringe and so we can see that 1220 01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:38,840 contiguous growth pattern emerging and that's something that our comp plan 1221 01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:42,360 talks about as we want to see staged growth you don't want to you know you 1222 01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:46,880 want to see the growth move outward in an orderly way and and it's really 1223 01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:52,320 showing it's really showing that pattern as we're looking to this growth and and 1224 01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:58,600 this seems like pretty explosive growth we we we have started planning for that 1225 01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:02,920 potential and and we've done a traffic study and we're going to go over that in 1226 01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:10,360 more detail in just a few minutes so this is also adjacent to existing in our four 1227 01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:14,040 districts so the proposal wouldn't be isolated it is an extension of that 1228 01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:19,560 existing zoning pattern and our four could also create a transition area and 1229 01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:25,080 buffer those those rural areas you can see out to the to the north and also the 1230 01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:30,840 east of the property from you know that that FM 428 corridor and that that loop 1231 01:52:30,840 --> 01:52:35,960 to a court loop to two 88 corridor and especially a lot of that development in 1232 01:52:35,960 --> 01:52:42,520 that area. Commissioner Smith. While you're on the slide the Hartley field 1233 01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:46,680 neighborhood that is down there it's it states that it's in you know I'm looking 1234 01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:51,240 at the backup states that's in the city of Denton but we don't have a zoning for 1235 01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:57,080 it it's it's a tendency but it's an ETJ so there's we have no we have no density 1236 01:52:57,080 --> 01:53:03,400 on that site whatsoever. The part that is doesn't have a color is is in the ETJ so 1237 01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:07,520 we don't have any zoning authority or land use authority within that property 1238 01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:12,880 the the north side of that Hartley field neighborhood it does or that those 1239 01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:16,680 properties right there those are within the city and they do have that RD 5x 1240 01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:20,440 designation so if they did want to come in with the additional densities they 1241 01:53:20,440 --> 01:53:29,000 would have to apply for initial zoning. Thank you. Criteria three talks about 1242 01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:33,640 adequate public improvements and we kind of went by the went we looked at these 1243 01:53:33,640 --> 01:53:38,560 and in a logical manner we're gonna start with transportation first so the 1244 01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:44,640 applicant provided trip generation numbers for their proposal and that per 1245 01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:50,440 their analysis that would generate 30 about 3,500 trips per per day per a 24 1246 01:53:50,440 --> 01:53:58,320 hour weekday AM peak of 280 and 368 as a result of this development and and the 1247 01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:03,040 surrounding developments in that slide we looked at earlier the city 1248 01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:09,120 commissioned a transportation study of the northeast sector of Denton and and 1249 01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:14,000 and we'll look at the next slide will show what that what the preliminary 1250 01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:20,560 results of that that study showed but it essentially their their recommendations 1251 01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:26,160 are to provide more east-west connections toward that northeast part of 1252 01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:33,080 the city also additional travel lanes on existing roads particularly FM 428 and 1253 01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:38,640 improve the intersections I know that that that upcoming improvements to that 1254 01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:44,960 loop 288 and FM 428 intersection are coming especially as part of as all 1255 01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:48,960 these developments are coming in and those would include that dedicated right 1256 01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:55,720 turn and signal at loop 288. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair before you get off 1257 01:54:55,720 --> 01:55:03,440 this slide the 3,500 trips are being generated solely by this 368 or is this 1258 01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:12,700 in conjunction with the shorthand that the ITE manual shows for single-family 1259 01:55:12,700 --> 01:55:18,560 homes is is that single-family homes typically generate 10 trips per day so 1260 01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:21,600 that's kind of just the shorthand I think it's probably there's probably 1261 01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:27,200 decimal places in there but generally that's what their studies have shown 1262 01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:35,080 okay and then the peaks the am and the p.m. peaks represent evidently people 1263 01:55:35,080 --> 01:55:38,600 going to work and coming back from work right those would be those hours where 1264 01:55:38,600 --> 01:55:43,640 people are commuting hours and this this would be it in in addition to what is 1265 01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:48,720 already yes sir okay and it's a lot and that's why the city looked at that 1266 01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:52,840 transportation study because we we looked at all of these cases coming and 1267 01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:56,200 we thought you know this is a really good time to start collaborating with 1268 01:55:56,200 --> 01:56:02,200 our engineering group and and really start looking at what what could go out 1269 01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:05,800 there and and how we should plan for it we're trying to be proactive and what we 1270 01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:10,160 see in that that corridor so here's the draft here's a map from the draft 1271 01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:15,920 transportation study once again it hasn't been fully completed but but we 1272 01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:21,520 wanted to show you this today and so we looked at this entire sector here so 1273 01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:27,760 this kind of fuzzy gray line is the study boundary and the methodology that 1274 01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:36,200 we that we had the the the consultant use to to come up with this plan was to 1275 01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:42,040 assume kind of a four dwelling units per acre residential development out in that 1276 01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:47,400 area plus some areas of commercial nodes especially where you've got especially 1277 01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:54,240 on our arterials in our intersections and so based upon our that methodology 1278 01:56:54,240 --> 01:57:00,640 they they've looked at these general roads that that need to come in this 1279 01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:05,360 this pinky red is our subject site and you could see this is Hartley Field it 1280 01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:10,400 may not be it may be a little too fuzzy but Hartley Field as as a result of 1281 01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:16,960 potential development out there they're recommending to straighten that out to 1282 01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:22,040 to realign that it will actually bisect the subject property and and then we 1283 01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:27,560 continue on to allow that east-west connection more connectivity more places 1284 01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:35,360 for people to get around thank you chair staying with what's being proposed go 1285 01:57:35,360 --> 01:57:42,480 back that one slide again you the traffic signals says dedicated signal at 1286 01:57:42,480 --> 01:57:48,440 loop 288 that wasn't there a traffic signal also dedicated or proposed that 1287 01:57:48,440 --> 01:57:52,520 long road where it intersects with Sherman I thought there were gonna was 1288 01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:58,520 gonna be a light there and because you've got traffic coming out at Hartley 1289 01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:02,160 Field where it does now that's a lot of the concern of the people that live in 1290 01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:09,520 there and having it there allows him to get on to FM 428 then you've got to deal 1291 01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:13,360 with the intersection itself down at the loop so there was no traffic signal 1292 01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:18,200 other than the one at loop 288 I am not aware of any traffic signals at long 1293 01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:24,440 because in discussions with engineering the the long the separation between long 1294 01:58:24,440 --> 01:58:28,040 and loop 288 there's there's there's not enough distance there to really have 1295 01:58:28,040 --> 01:58:31,440 that light there and that's why they liked that alignment of Hartley Field 1296 01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:37,720 because it allows that separation allows for and more just a better flow of 1297 01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:40,960 traffic if that goes through then we could see a traffic light at that 1298 01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:45,640 intersection they are looking at all types of interventions to to make that 1299 01:58:45,640 --> 01:58:50,440 work and to get the traffic flowing through that they've thrown out some 1300 01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:57,160 some some ideas things like signals or maybe even a traffic circle something to 1301 01:58:57,160 --> 01:59:05,760 get the cars moving through that area efficiently and safely okay thank you 1302 01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:13,120 I'm also just to point out that FM the the study recommends that that FM 428 in 1303 01:59:13,120 --> 01:59:20,480 this piece would go to a four lane divided and then with a and then they 1304 01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:24,840 are recommending even a bar above that to preserve right of way for a six lane 1305 01:59:24,840 --> 01:59:29,960 divided roadway for some time in the future that Hartley Road alignment would 1306 01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:35,640 be as as proposed kind of kind of short term and long term short term a two lane 1307 01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:40,600 undivided it would be an arterial but that but to preserve that right of way 1308 01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:50,320 for a four lane divided road to accommodate future growth for it alright 1309 01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:55,320 we looked at other public improvements water and sewer specifically there is 1310 01:59:55,320 --> 02:00:00,800 water near the property and there's a 54 inch water line they can't tap into that 1311 02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:06,160 and directly adjacent to the site so they would have to extend either the 12 1312 02:00:06,160 --> 02:00:10,720 inch from the south or the 12 inch from the north and extend it across the the 1313 02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:16,040 the the frontage of the site they would also have to do sewer extensions that 1314 02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:20,000 red line is is the newest the nearest sewer and they'd have to do a lift 1315 02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:26,280 station to make sure they got the sewer there we'd also talked to Denton ISD we 1316 02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:30,400 wanted to see if there was if there was capacity within the schools they do have 1317 02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:35,440 a formula that they use that based upon the number of homes and what sort numbers 1318 02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:40,760 of students that those generate and right now those the schools within the 1319 02:00:40,760 --> 02:00:45,600 attendance zone do you have adequate capacity for the for any increased 1320 02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:50,840 enrollments associated with the with this subject property and then upon 1321 02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:56,000 development upon platting and then building permits any the developer would 1322 02:00:56,000 --> 02:01:00,680 have to pay a parkland dedication fee upon platting and then a park development 1323 02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:05,000 fee with each residential building permit I should also back up and say with 1324 02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:09,080 transportation roadway impact fees would be associated with every building permit 1325 02:01:09,080 --> 02:01:16,360 which would go toward those system wide public public improvements we also looked 1326 02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:22,800 at the consideration of character and land use when you look at a 360 degree 1327 02:01:22,800 --> 02:01:26,860 view of this site you know it's there's still a lot of rural area around there 1328 02:01:26,860 --> 02:01:31,600 but that existing growth particularly to the south of the subject site suggests 1329 02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:36,720 that that stage development along more major arterials at the urban periphery 1330 02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:43,520 is appropriate and particularly zoning districts like like in our four where 1331 02:01:43,520 --> 02:01:47,960 it's residential development so you keeping that those existing uses there's 1332 02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:52,760 there's residential uses around there so keeping that that same use but a little 1333 02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:58,560 more density than what what you see out there now however when we look at in our 1334 02:01:58,560 --> 02:02:03,160 four there are a couple of uses that are inconsistent with what we feel is out in 1335 02:02:03,160 --> 02:02:07,480 that area and though in particular duplexes and single-family attached which 1336 02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:14,880 are town homes so staff would recommend that if if if approved that an overlay 1337 02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:19,720 condition be put on the zoning to to net those uses out that way it would really 1338 02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:28,320 only be a single-family neighborhood notification was sent out so it's a 1339 02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:31,680 pretty prominent location within the city of Denton we've received quite a 1340 02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:38,800 few letters in opposition we've received a total of 23 responses 20 of them are 1341 02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:46,400 outside of that that 200 foot boundary so the the areas in red are showing 1342 02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:51,120 opposition we have one in favor we're at 13% opposition within that 200 foot 1343 02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:57,480 boundary so based upon staff's analysis of the request and the and the the 1344 02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:01,680 overall didn't plan 2030 and the criteria for approval staff recommends 1345 02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:05,840 approval of the request with the overlay condition that duplexes and 1346 02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:09,600 single-family dwellings oh attached single-family dwellings are not 1347 02:03:09,600 --> 02:03:17,120 permitted and I'll stand for any questions Julia may one clarifying 1348 02:03:17,120 --> 02:03:21,720 question in our four from the city's perspective is considered low density it 1349 02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:27,280 is what are the low density zones in our one which would be essentially one 1350 02:03:27,280 --> 02:03:31,560 dwelling unit per acre in our two two dwelling units per acre in our three 1351 02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:35,400 three and a half dwelling units per acre and then in our four is the four dwelling 1352 02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:39,600 units per acre do we have so in our six that could be centered moderate yes sir 1353 02:03:39,600 --> 02:03:48,180 and then MU MRM you 12 would be moderate would be moderate mm-hmm what's high 1354 02:03:48,180 --> 02:03:53,040 density residential anything above 12 dwelling units per acre I believe that 1355 02:03:53,040 --> 02:04:00,320 the Denton plan 2030 has that up to 12 dwelling units per acre is that moderate 1356 02:04:00,320 --> 02:04:05,280 density anything above that would be considered higher density and I'd risk 1357 02:04:05,280 --> 02:04:10,440 of talking to tertiary that might be better reserved for the public I do want 1358 02:04:10,440 --> 02:04:15,880 to ask this is being recommended by the city not because it meets the future 1359 02:04:15,880 --> 02:04:21,720 land-use map but because you went to these secondary seven criteria and it 1360 02:04:21,720 --> 02:04:27,960 looked to meet those correct I have a concern about the ongoing approval of 1361 02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:33,440 other such property for instance commercial or mixed use we're we are 1362 02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:38,000 potentially proving a lot of homes without any support structure out there 1363 02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,280 so they're all coming back into university basically for groceries and 1364 02:04:41,280 --> 02:04:47,360 gas and all this and it doesn't seem by those seven criteria is that a strip 1365 02:04:47,360 --> 02:04:51,480 center that could provide them a McDonald's would be likely to be 1366 02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:56,400 approved by the city and so I'm trying to think through maybe the city's intent 1367 02:04:56,400 --> 02:05:02,200 of how we we are looking in it from a planning perspective of all this land 1368 02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:07,600 that right now seems deemed only be housetops and I would love your input or 1369 02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:11,240 the city's input of of where that balance is going to be considering the 1370 02:05:11,240 --> 02:05:17,880 approval criteria listed so the comprehensive plan was adopted in 2015 1371 02:05:17,880 --> 02:05:22,320 and I really think it probably contemplated a bit slower growth within 1372 02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:26,560 the city of Denton it really did call for stage growth and filling in the 1373 02:05:26,560 --> 02:05:31,080 center part of Denton before we go to that urban edge that periphery and it 1374 02:05:31,080 --> 02:05:35,280 just happened it seemed to have happened a lot faster than anticipated and so I 1375 02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:42,840 expect we kick those same questions around on staff because this whole this 1376 02:05:42,840 --> 02:05:48,280 whole area to the north really was just deemed rural and so how should it grow 1377 02:05:48,280 --> 02:05:53,440 responsibly and with in keeping with our vision and so I think we're probably 1378 02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:57,640 going to have to have future conversations associated with our future 1379 02:05:57,640 --> 02:06:04,240 land use map and and maybe start start looking at where we're going because we 1380 02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:08,080 got we got there a little sooner than we expected yeah I just wonder what what 1381 02:06:08,080 --> 02:06:12,560 mechanisms we have apart from updating the flume to actually provide these 1382 02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:16,360 residents direction because I'm sure a lot of this feedback comes from fear of 1383 02:06:16,360 --> 02:06:22,000 the what-ifs are gonna happen I can I can imagine that seeing all this being 1384 02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:26,720 rural but us improving non rural I guess this is low density but non rural 1385 02:06:26,720 --> 02:06:30,840 activities it's hard for any of the residents to know what's gonna happen to 1386 02:06:30,840 --> 02:06:35,480 the next property or so without using the future land use and using these 1387 02:06:35,480 --> 02:06:39,720 criterias I don't know how we can I would like to know how we can better 1388 02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:45,080 serve the citizens to know what the city's intent for planning perspective is 1389 02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:50,080 actually going on and I don't know how to do that I'm looking at Richard you 1390 02:06:50,080 --> 02:06:54,280 may want to weigh in on this yeah it might be good if we had the and we could 1391 02:06:54,280 --> 02:06:57,480 probably bring this back maybe even for the next not necessarily this agenda 1392 02:06:57,480 --> 02:07:03,600 item but but this discussion and it might be I can also see maybe if pre 1393 02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:08,520 Tim can also attend one it one of the things when we when we approached the 1394 02:07:08,520 --> 02:07:13,880 that traffic analysis we wanted to make sure we were linking the two were in the 1395 02:07:13,880 --> 02:07:17,360 past you know there was this mobility plan and we often question because 1396 02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:21,240 you'll see these squiggly lines all over the place that don't really make sense 1397 02:07:21,240 --> 02:07:25,960 and so as we started looking at that we wanted to make sure that as we grow 1398 02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:31,880 things are being planned for properly and and so looking as we started mapping 1399 02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:35,580 and seeing where the transportation network is that's where we started 1400 02:07:35,580 --> 02:07:39,440 looking at okay what makes sense where should those commercial areas be what 1401 02:07:39,440 --> 02:07:43,320 are the distances between where we know we have some commercial property now at 1402 02:07:43,320 --> 02:07:47,720 the loop but then what is the next major intersection how can we start and so 1403 02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:51,800 that's kind of that approach that we started with transportation and and I 1404 02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:57,480 shouldn't say what you're gonna see shortly after the DDC and zoning map 1405 02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:02,280 update will be that will be the update to the 2030 plan and really you know we 1406 02:08:02,280 --> 02:08:06,680 started to I want to take Julie's thunder but she started really doing an analysis 1407 02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:11,040 really part of this project of what do we have left in this kind of inside the 1408 02:08:11,040 --> 02:08:16,040 circle and there's not much left but also if we're going to continue to grow 1409 02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:20,760 let's let's try to let's not wait and kind of let's not wait and see let's 1410 02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:25,800 let's be a little bit more proactive but also now starting to if this is where 1411 02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:29,960 the growth is gonna go do we wait for these road improvements or do we or do 1412 02:08:29,960 --> 02:08:34,520 we look at a different way to fund them yeah and real quick and then the other 1413 02:08:34,520 --> 02:08:40,660 commissioners seem to have things if we know it now I'll ask for it if not if we 1414 02:08:40,660 --> 02:08:43,760 can have it for the public hearing is oftentimes we talk about road 1415 02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:47,400 improvements signal lights if there's any timelines to do things that we can 1416 02:08:47,400 --> 02:08:52,000 provide the citizens say a signal light will be at Luke 288 and Sherman in nine 1417 02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:57,600 months that would be super helpful for both us to know and for the citizens 1418 02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:01,860 who are here or who have responded to kind of understand oftentimes it's a 1419 02:09:01,860 --> 02:09:05,880 little ambiguous and it's on mobility map but we don't know when the bond any 1420 02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:10,480 of that so if do you have any timelines at any of the infrastructure not right 1421 02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:15,400 now okay I suspect we will within honestly hopefully next week we'll start 1422 02:09:15,400 --> 02:09:19,640 that discussion that was a meeting I had earlier today is is really looking at 1423 02:09:19,640 --> 02:09:23,480 all of all of the development that we have all of our transportation needs and 1424 02:09:23,480 --> 02:09:27,520 really where where is the growth occurring and how can we that was 1425 02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:30,200 something that the city manager really wanted to make sure that that we were 1426 02:09:30,200 --> 02:09:34,000 moving forward on rather than kind of what's happened in the past where we 1427 02:09:34,000 --> 02:09:37,560 where we kind of just kind of sat back and waited for the for the impact fee 1428 02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:41,760 money to come in well by that time it's kind of too late and so now it's really 1429 02:09:41,760 --> 02:09:47,560 looking more proactively and how can we address this once we get that formulated 1430 02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:50,400 I think that's what would be better better off to answer these exact 1431 02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:54,040 questions both for the Commission to make informed decisions but also for the 1432 02:09:54,040 --> 02:09:57,600 residents so they have an idea of what what what to expect sir 1433 02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:02,040 Krister back thank you chair and kind of jump into that same conversation there 1434 02:10:02,040 --> 02:10:05,960 about what to do this and I'm gonna probably have to lean on Richard here 1435 02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:12,480 because in the DDC the rewrite committee I think we were actually looking at 1436 02:10:12,480 --> 02:10:19,040 giving this a new zoning designation of suburban corridor which would entail 1437 02:10:19,040 --> 02:10:25,680 mixed use stuff and I was going to raise that tonight too that as chairman 1438 02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:29,800 Roselle state we're putting in houses out there but we're not we're not building 1439 02:10:29,800 --> 02:10:34,720 commercial uses that they can benefit from without having to come into town or 1440 02:10:34,720 --> 02:10:41,560 go to the Golden Triangle and law so is that I mean I know we're just looking at 1441 02:10:41,560 --> 02:10:46,120 it in the the rewrite committee but I mean isn't that a possibility too that 1442 02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:50,720 this is going to conflict with filling these houses that if we zone this that 1443 02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:58,200 suburban corridor this sets outside of that even if it is mixed use mixed use 1444 02:10:58,200 --> 02:11:01,720 is really talking about putting some commercial stuff in there which it needs 1445 02:11:01,720 --> 02:11:07,200 out there and I think we if I may yeah it's really as I was a little more 1446 02:11:07,200 --> 02:11:12,440 strategic I think as we start to really you know I think what helped with this 1447 02:11:12,440 --> 02:11:16,520 area in particular is the transportation study because rather than just really 1448 02:11:16,520 --> 02:11:21,160 just making some general assumptions of let's zone it this we were actually able 1449 02:11:21,160 --> 02:11:25,280 to really look into all right well how was this network I mean it because it 1450 02:11:25,280 --> 02:11:30,960 doesn't exist and so what makes the most logical sense and if you see where 1451 02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:37,480 I guess I'll call it Road F if you will really looking at well unfortunately it 1452 02:11:37,480 --> 02:11:44,000 it bisects this property as it as it continues west we're trying to align 1453 02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:47,800 these where they where they run boundary lines so we're not we're not cutting 1454 02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:52,760 through the middle middle of properties but that's that Stark Farms to the south 1455 02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:59,080 to the north DISD owns that owns that property whether they'll ever develop a 1456 02:11:59,080 --> 02:12:04,400 school there who knows it may come sooner than later but those are and so 1457 02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:09,320 we're looking at also who owns the property and so we can understand what 1458 02:12:09,320 --> 02:12:13,600 what reasonably to expect there is it you can go back to even the zoning map 1459 02:12:13,600 --> 02:12:18,240 because there is it there's a lot of commercial sort of right at that at no 1460 02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:24,840 now that's undeveloped so there is there is some available commercial within that 1461 02:12:24,840 --> 02:12:28,960 CMG but I think it's just looking at that at that space you can get it getting a 1462 02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:33,600 better understanding of how it can best fit as we as we start to rezone it do 1463 02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:40,280 we have the right away already for this Hartley Field extension no no okay 1464 02:12:40,280 --> 02:12:46,600 Mr. Smith nature just what is the latest on the DDE I know it's off-topic but it 1465 02:12:46,600 --> 02:12:50,240 really is German I promise where the latest in the DDC where we close to set 1466 02:12:50,240 --> 02:12:57,320 on getting the DDC rewrite back to us we should have the public draft the 12th 1467 02:12:57,320 --> 02:13:03,920 around around the 12th February next month and then that and and how far away 1468 02:13:03,920 --> 02:13:06,240 is that from being approved I'm just thinking it from the standpoint of of 1469 02:13:06,240 --> 02:13:11,720 this this item in light of what Commissioner Beck has brought up how if 1470 02:13:11,720 --> 02:13:16,960 we if we something it'd be two months and then there's brand new brand new 1471 02:13:16,960 --> 02:13:20,800 ideas for zoning around this area that we just approved or I suspect we're 1472 02:13:20,800 --> 02:13:25,240 probably looking at May okay at the earliest all right thank you 1473 02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:28,440 Mr. Cole 1474 02:13:28,440 --> 02:13:41,440 so should we wait and to see more definite the infrastructure situation or 1475 02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:49,440 I mean because they're all right I mean we're jumping into this not knowing you 1476 02:13:49,440 --> 02:13:54,560 know what's going to you know it seems like we're okay in this before it needs 1477 02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:59,160 to be I mean and and with and with it I mean I don't want to say don't you know 1478 02:13:59,160 --> 02:14:04,800 don't do it or to do it we looked at it as at this point where we're just I don't 1479 02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:08,520 look for the lack of a better kind of changing the color of the map to allow 1480 02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:13,280 the residential but at least it gives us the idea that took to plan because now 1481 02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:17,200 we our assumptions are kind of what we what we thought it might be and if I can 1482 02:14:17,200 --> 02:14:20,600 interject Chris recall I think that question would be great to be held in 1483 02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:26,920 public session and I think we can all weigh in on that exact question 1484 02:14:26,920 --> 02:14:31,120 Christian Pernetta so one thing I'm really curious about is you know we 1485 02:14:31,120 --> 02:14:34,240 talked about the traffic that was generated right in that area right so 1486 02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:40,480 it's about 3,400 trips and I guess my question is how centralized is it to 1487 02:14:40,480 --> 02:14:45,480 that because because as chair mentioned there's no grocery stores in anywhere 1488 02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:49,840 around there right so if there's 3,400 trips that are coming in well they're 1489 02:14:49,840 --> 02:14:53,200 gonna hit 288 and they're actually gonna have to go pretty far out or they're 1490 02:14:53,200 --> 02:14:57,320 gonna have to go down Sherman all the way to the Kroger on University which 1491 02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:01,640 creates a lot of traffic downstream that we don't have a count on right there 1492 02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:07,160 until we have things where people can go like I said just get a gallon of milk or 1493 02:15:07,160 --> 02:15:12,960 something like that do we have any idea of what the impacts would be because 1494 02:15:12,960 --> 02:15:18,760 because like I said from that area I don't see where anybody's gonna be able 1495 02:15:18,760 --> 02:15:24,520 to go get some basic necessities outside of that specific spot on University it 1496 02:15:24,520 --> 02:15:29,600 makes no sense for them to hit any other direction um you're right there aren't a 1497 02:15:29,600 --> 02:15:34,640 lot of services out there and a lot of retail I suspect that as more rooftops 1498 02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:41,000 come in that area that their retail will will probably fill in that corner there 1499 02:15:41,000 --> 02:15:49,640 that corner there at at the loop and 428 has has been zoned commercial for many 1500 02:15:49,640 --> 02:15:56,080 many years and hasn't developed so I you know I I can't I can time will tell but 1501 02:15:56,080 --> 02:16:01,440 but you're right there aren't aren't a lot of a lot of retail options for them 1502 02:16:01,440 --> 02:16:11,880 in that in that area right now thank you great I don't see any other questions 1503 02:16:12,240 --> 02:16:32,760 thank you Julie Haley the next presentation long sure should be for 1504 02:16:32,760 --> 02:16:41,200 dinner let's go ahead and break at 555 for five minutes to grab some food we'll 1505 02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:50,520 meet back here at six thank you for that break it is now 603 will reconvene with 1506 02:16:50,520 --> 02:17:00,360 item 5b Z 18 - 17 B and Haley will be presenting this is a zoning case for 1507 02:17:00,360 --> 02:17:06,760 lakeside place the request before you is kind of twofold it is a request for an 1508 02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:11,880 initial zoning designation of NR for on approximately 86 acres of land as well 1509 02:17:11,880 --> 02:17:18,520 as a rezoning of approximately six acres from NR 2 to NR for so looking at that 1510 02:17:18,520 --> 02:17:22,360 breakdown you can see here the hatched area being the larger portion that's 1511 02:17:22,360 --> 02:17:26,920 currently RD 5 X so it's got that initial placeholder zoning recently 1512 02:17:26,920 --> 02:17:30,960 annexed into the city in November and then the six acres is this little far 1513 02:17:30,960 --> 02:17:34,600 northern corner of the site that's currently zoned NR 2 so the proposal 1514 02:17:34,600 --> 02:17:38,640 would be to take this to NR for and you can see the surrounding areas a mixture 1515 02:17:38,640 --> 02:17:43,320 of low density residential districts with a little commercial development or 1516 02:17:43,320 --> 02:17:48,680 commercial zoning across the railroad tracks so when we look at a rezoning we 1517 02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:52,320 have two primary criteria for approval the first being rather the rezoning 1518 02:17:52,320 --> 02:17:56,480 conforms to the future land use element of our Denton plan 2030 the second being 1519 02:17:56,480 --> 02:18:02,280 if the proposed rezoning facilitates the adequate provision of infrastructure so 1520 02:18:02,280 --> 02:18:06,040 looking at that first criteria the future land use map designates this area 1521 02:18:06,040 --> 02:18:11,880 for low residential that is an area or a designation intended to promote single 1522 02:18:11,880 --> 02:18:17,120 family housing with lot sizes ranging from one home per acre up in our more 1523 02:18:17,120 --> 02:18:23,400 rural areas to up to four units per acre closer within the city so this NR for 1524 02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:27,000 district does have a maximum density of four units per acre so it does fall 1525 02:18:27,000 --> 02:18:30,840 within that range and therefore is consistent with that future land use 1526 02:18:30,840 --> 02:18:37,040 designation the second criteria being the adequate infrastructure so this 1527 02:18:37,040 --> 02:18:41,320 site currently has an 8-inch water line I apologize it may be a little hard to 1528 02:18:41,320 --> 02:18:45,040 see here but this dashed line is a newly installed 8-inch water line that would 1529 02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:49,360 be available to the site and then they have a 10-inch sewer line here at the 1530 02:18:49,360 --> 02:18:54,240 northern terminus of Creepdale as well as an 8-inch sewer stub out here at the 1531 02:18:54,240 --> 02:18:59,680 I guess that'd be the eastern end of Creepdale looking at transportation 1532 02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:05,480 things get a little more complicated so our mobility plan shows two roads kind 1533 02:19:05,480 --> 02:19:09,280 of bisecting the site one of those was intended to be an extension of Hickory 1534 02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:13,160 Creek that would curve up north of the floodplain and then the other was the 1535 02:19:13,160 --> 02:19:18,280 extension of Creepdale to connect these two end points that we have today so the 1536 02:19:18,280 --> 02:19:23,440 applicant has done a kind of an early traffic impact analysis they needed to 1537 02:19:23,440 --> 02:19:26,020 do a little additional work on it as they move forward with plotting the 1538 02:19:26,020 --> 02:19:29,360 property but what it gave us some good ideas of what needs to occur in this 1539 02:19:29,360 --> 02:19:34,440 area so the applicant through that TIA has agreed that they will provide for 1540 02:19:34,440 --> 02:19:38,240 the improvements on Hickory Creek and will extend Creepdale to match the 1541 02:19:38,240 --> 02:19:43,320 mobility plan the TIA did reveal that it makes a little more sense in this area 1542 02:19:43,320 --> 02:19:47,840 for rather than realigning Hickory Creek this way to go ahead and keep it on its 1543 02:19:47,840 --> 02:19:51,160 more current path go kind of straight through the floodplain and eventually 1544 02:19:51,160 --> 02:19:57,600 connect this with Brush Creek now that is kind of a larger endeavor since a lot of 1545 02:19:57,600 --> 02:20:01,960 that road is in the county currently so much like Julie just discussed with that 1546 02:20:01,960 --> 02:20:05,360 kind of regional traffic study our engineering department is looking at 1547 02:20:05,360 --> 02:20:10,400 kicking off a similar study very soon for this Ryan Road Hickory Creek area to 1548 02:20:10,400 --> 02:20:14,280 kind of pull all these groups together the city the county and really determine 1549 02:20:14,280 --> 02:20:17,800 what's the best plan for these roads in this area as we move forward 1550 02:20:17,800 --> 02:20:23,480 I'm gonna interject real fast and then looks like Commissioner Beck this might 1551 02:20:23,480 --> 02:20:26,560 be a little too soon but given what happened this morning on Hickory Creek 1552 02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:33,800 I'm really sensitive to what's going on here I have a lot of thoughts on it but 1553 02:20:33,800 --> 02:20:39,840 but to maybe make it more pointed what's the time delay in just changing where 1554 02:20:39,840 --> 02:20:44,960 that road should be in the red dots to this new idea because I have some 1555 02:20:44,960 --> 02:20:50,240 serious concern putting any more traffic on that road as it currently exists it's 1556 02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:56,120 it's it's a it's a nightmare it's a danger so what's are we adding years to 1557 02:20:56,120 --> 02:20:58,840 a timeline of Hickory Creek to get that taken care of or what do we what are we 1558 02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:02,280 talking about in timeline of these the intent the red dash line is what our 1559 02:21:02,280 --> 02:21:06,200 mobility plan currently calls for through their TIA and then through this future 1560 02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:10,960 study that Preetam and his team are hoping to kick off very soon the plan is 1561 02:21:10,960 --> 02:21:15,840 to just scratch that off the mobility plan so imagine that red line is no 1562 02:21:15,840 --> 02:21:18,680 longer crossing the property here they wouldn't be dedicating the right of way 1563 02:21:18,680 --> 02:21:22,640 for that roadway along the floodplain instead they would be accommodating the 1564 02:21:22,640 --> 02:21:25,920 improvements on their frontage with the intent that Hickory Creek would punch 1565 02:21:25,920 --> 02:21:30,320 through in some alignment through this general area to connect with Brush Creek 1566 02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:34,480 and make a more direct East West arterial on the south side of the city 1567 02:21:34,480 --> 02:21:38,600 someday. Commissioner Bec, did you have anything? 1568 02:21:38,600 --> 02:21:47,400 If you can just touch on the two CIP projects. Yeah yeah so in addition to 1569 02:21:47,400 --> 02:21:51,840 that study there are two projects currently in the planning for CIP to 1570 02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:55,640 widen the existing Hickory Creek to a four-lane divided roadway so it's kind 1571 02:21:55,640 --> 02:21:59,400 of being handled as a two-phase project I believe that's East and West of Teasley 1572 02:21:59,400 --> 02:22:05,040 that would bring the four-lane divided up here to River Pass and part of their 1573 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:08,720 TIA called for this property as they move forward with platting to coordinate 1574 02:22:08,720 --> 02:22:12,200 with that and try to figure out how to get that four-lane divided roadway 1575 02:22:12,200 --> 02:22:15,360 extended a little bit further than what the CIP plans intended. Gotcha but as 1576 02:22:15,360 --> 02:22:18,560 soon as they cross the road tracks it's down to that two-lane road again. Correct 1577 02:22:18,560 --> 02:22:22,680 that part being in the county is currently outside of our control but it 1578 02:22:22,680 --> 02:22:24,800 is something that our engineering department is coordinating with the 1579 02:22:24,800 --> 02:22:35,120 county on. So as I mentioned that the TIA they submitted well fairly thorough 1580 02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:38,640 wasn't quite enough yet because we don't have a conceptual layout for the 1581 02:22:38,640 --> 02:22:41,960 subdivision so as they move forward with preliminary platting the applicants 1582 02:22:41,960 --> 02:22:45,600 aware that we'll be asking them to update that TIA once they know their 1583 02:22:45,600 --> 02:22:48,680 their ultimate plan for the lot layout so that we can look at these 1584 02:22:48,680 --> 02:22:53,920 transportation improvements more closely at that time and as I mentioned the site 1585 02:22:53,920 --> 02:22:58,400 also recently annexed into the city and through that process DISD is contacted 1586 02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:01,680 and they have confirmed that the schools in this area would be able to accommodate 1587 02:23:01,680 --> 02:23:04,880 the additional students that would be expected to be generated through this 1588 02:23:04,880 --> 02:23:10,240 project. Notifications were sent regarding this case as you can see here 1589 02:23:10,240 --> 02:23:14,460 on the map we received two responses in favor one of those came in since the 1590 02:23:14,460 --> 02:23:19,160 agenda was published so I have placed that at the table for you to review but 1591 02:23:19,160 --> 02:23:22,360 you can see those two properties one being north of the site and the other 1592 02:23:22,360 --> 02:23:28,480 here along their western boundary. Staff is recommending approval of this 1593 02:23:28,480 --> 02:23:32,280 request as it's consistent with the surrounding properties and consistent 1594 02:23:32,280 --> 02:23:34,600 with our goals and objectives from the Denton plan and meets those two 1595 02:23:34,600 --> 02:23:37,640 criteria as they were described here and I'm happy to stand for any other 1596 02:23:37,640 --> 02:23:43,880 questions. Mr. Beck. Thank you Chair. Haley the fact that there's three active 1597 02:23:43,880 --> 02:23:48,060 gases on the site is that was that not brought up because this is the zone 1598 02:23:48,060 --> 02:23:53,220 change request that the gas site locations will be? It's expected that 1599 02:23:53,220 --> 02:23:57,000 since the site annexed into the city it would comply with our standard gas wall 1600 02:23:57,000 --> 02:24:00,640 regulations in terms of notifications. Okay but we'd be dealing with it more 1601 02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:05,720 detailed should this thing go through? The standard process for a site 1602 02:24:05,720 --> 02:24:08,240 like this would be once they get to the preliminary platting stage we would 1603 02:24:08,240 --> 02:24:12,440 ensure that they have the proper notifications and setbacks and things of 1604 02:24:12,440 --> 02:24:15,840 that nature on the plat. It's typically not something that we would deal with at 1605 02:24:15,840 --> 02:24:20,920 zoning but okay. Not that you may know this just curious do we know if the 1606 02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:25,200 developers have been talking with the gas well operators about? Yes there's 1607 02:24:25,200 --> 02:24:28,400 actually a gas well plat that covers the site so they've been I believe Eagle 1608 02:24:28,400 --> 02:24:30,920 Ridge is the operator and they've been in correspondence with them throughout 1609 02:24:30,920 --> 02:24:41,000 this process. Good thank you. Any other questions? Great thank you. 1610 02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:52,320 Next item is 5CZ18-0023 and I'll invite Julie Wyatt for presentation. 1611 02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:21,920 No. All right so this is Z18-23 Worthington Treffport. So the request 1612 02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:28,000 before you is a rezoning from regional center commercial downtown to an ECI 1613 02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:33,400 employment center industrial zoning district on approximately 8.7 acres of 1614 02:25:33,400 --> 02:25:39,800 land and that's this site right here and a change in the zoning from regional 1615 02:25:39,800 --> 02:25:44,840 center commercial neighborhood RCCN in this location to that ECI as well. So the 1616 02:25:44,840 --> 02:25:54,920 request is to to go from those regional zoning districts to ECI. The current 1617 02:25:54,920 --> 02:25:59,180 zoning as I said before has those regional commercial zoning districts on 1618 02:25:59,180 --> 02:26:04,640 the subject property. It's a total of 16 acres but there are there are two lots 1619 02:26:04,640 --> 02:26:10,720 with those separate zoning designations. Surrounding the subject property from 1620 02:26:10,720 --> 02:26:16,960 from the the western boundary toward I-35 you see a lot of regional zoning as 1621 02:26:16,960 --> 02:26:23,120 well as it started to go to that ECI district. So across the street there's ECI 1622 02:26:23,120 --> 02:26:28,360 and those have been recent zoning cases. There's ICG to the south and to the 1623 02:26:28,360 --> 02:26:34,120 west of the subject site is NR2. The proposal is just to extend that existing 1624 02:26:34,120 --> 02:26:42,200 ECI to the subject property. Here's the concept plan they're really looking to 1625 02:26:42,200 --> 02:26:46,920 expand the existing development. This is the existing development on the the 1626 02:26:46,920 --> 02:26:50,920 southern part of the site. They're not looking to change that what they want to 1627 02:26:50,920 --> 02:26:56,840 do is add some storage uses to the to the north portion of the site. Always my 1628 02:26:56,840 --> 02:27:01,960 word of caution this is not set in stone if they if the zoning were approved they 1629 02:27:01,960 --> 02:27:06,400 could develop with any of the uses permitted within ECI at the scale 1630 02:27:06,400 --> 02:27:11,280 permitted within that zoning district. So the criteria for approval as I said 1631 02:27:11,280 --> 02:27:14,560 before is in step chapter 3. First does it conform to the future land use and 1632 02:27:14,560 --> 02:27:19,280 then second does it does it is there adequate provision of public facilities. 1633 02:27:19,280 --> 02:27:25,240 So first let's take the debt and plan. This area is is within a business 1634 02:27:25,240 --> 02:27:28,600 innovation future land use and and there's quite a bit of business 1635 02:27:28,600 --> 02:27:33,520 innovation around it. The intent is for those well-planned large-scale office 1636 02:27:33,520 --> 02:27:38,280 and employment uses. It can also include supporting uses such as retail hotel and 1637 02:27:38,280 --> 02:27:44,560 and residential. So as we see often we have we have quite a bit of business 1638 02:27:44,560 --> 02:27:48,080 innovation as a future land use within the city of Denton and we see a variety 1639 02:27:48,080 --> 02:27:53,240 of zoning districts. ECC and ECI are our primary zoning districts within that 1640 02:27:53,240 --> 02:27:58,800 future land use but sometimes there are also those those commercial and that the 1641 02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:04,480 uses associated with ECI are consistent with that future land use designation. 1642 02:28:04,480 --> 02:28:09,160 They have a they have a broad array of light industrial warehousing and 1643 02:28:09,160 --> 02:28:18,240 employment type uses as well as those supporting commercial uses. When looking 1644 02:28:18,240 --> 02:28:22,960 at the public improvements we looked at transportation that the applicant did a 1645 02:28:22,960 --> 02:28:27,480 trip generation for the proposed use. It's a pretty low-intensity use as far 1646 02:28:27,480 --> 02:28:33,280 as traffic so it's anticipated to to generate 95 trips on that undeveloped 1647 02:28:33,280 --> 02:28:36,640 portion because that's the portion that they would develop in association with 1648 02:28:36,640 --> 02:28:41,960 the requested zoning. The peak hour would be 20 trips so that that doesn't reach 1649 02:28:41,960 --> 02:28:46,120 the threshold of the TIA. Typically engineering wants to see at least a 1650 02:28:46,120 --> 02:28:52,000 thousand trips generation generated a day before that TIA is done. 1651 02:28:52,000 --> 02:29:21,960 Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. Does any of this, is all transportation pretty much going to be coming off I-35? The concern we're seeing from homeowners is that it's going back behind. So when we're looking at this information it's reflecting on what's coming in from I-35, not from the back side. Is that right? Correct and we'll talk about that. So so yes it you know that the streets the street that the the subject property is on it 1652 02:29:21,960 --> 02:29:27,560 connects to I-35 it also connects to University so the anticipated traffic is 1653 02:29:27,560 --> 02:29:32,600 from those two areas. Additionally there's a railroad track on the on the Western 1654 02:29:32,600 --> 02:29:37,480 property line and and there's there's not going to be a connection for this site 1655 02:29:37,480 --> 02:29:51,840 between between this site and those residential areas. Be sure and bring that up in the public area. Other findings associated with this so it is it is a 1656 02:29:51,840 --> 02:29:58,280 logical continuation of that surrounding zoning and use pattern. That that area 1657 02:29:58,280 --> 02:30:03,720 sandwiched between the railroad track track and I-35 really has developed with 1658 02:30:03,720 --> 02:30:09,920 employment type uses that set back off of I-35 so this general area is those 1659 02:30:09,920 --> 02:30:15,080 employment uses then those those parcels that have the frontage of I-35 we're 1660 02:30:15,080 --> 02:30:19,640 seeing developed with commercial uses those uses that want the visibility of 1661 02:30:19,640 --> 02:30:26,680 highway of a highway corridor so this this rezoning is a continuation of that 1662 02:30:26,680 --> 02:30:32,760 use or that that zoning and land use pattern. But we like in the last one we 1663 02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:37,040 want to take a 360 degree view of the side and we want to look not only what's 1664 02:30:37,040 --> 02:30:42,800 in front of the side but what's behind it and and there is a very low density 1665 02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:47,240 single-family neighborhood adjacent to the side and and the dent plant really 1666 02:30:47,240 --> 02:30:52,360 calls for sensitivity to these to these areas so we looked at that we wanted to 1667 02:30:52,360 --> 02:30:55,680 make sure that was a part of our analysis and what we really determined 1668 02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:59,480 that because of that railroad and actually it's elevated it's actually on 1669 02:30:59,480 --> 02:31:04,360 top of a berm it is the the site is physically separated from that 1670 02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:09,720 residential neighborhood and it won't it won't connect to that neighborhood. The 1671 02:31:09,720 --> 02:31:15,600 industrial uses within ECR are our lower impact our our light industrial uses 1672 02:31:15,600 --> 02:31:21,480 they're not those heavy industrial or those those uses that cause a lot more 1673 02:31:21,480 --> 02:31:27,080 off-site impacts and and it's actually nets out some of those higher intensity 1674 02:31:27,080 --> 02:31:32,000 commercial uses that are within the existing zoning districts for instance 1675 02:31:32,000 --> 02:31:36,600 under current zoning motels would be permitted so this would actually pull 1676 02:31:36,600 --> 02:31:41,800 out some of those uses that would would would also generate commercial type 1677 02:31:41,800 --> 02:31:46,400 impacts. The development scale in ECI and the existing zoning is compare 1678 02:31:46,400 --> 02:31:50,440 comparable so anything that would be built on the site visually would would 1679 02:31:50,440 --> 02:31:55,400 be somewhat similar and then there when when it develops there will be design 1680 02:31:55,400 --> 02:32:01,780 standards associated with it so things like a minimum tree canopy of 30% 1681 02:32:01,780 --> 02:32:06,480 screening at the right-of-way all of those elements associated with site 1682 02:32:06,480 --> 02:32:12,840 design those would apply to any development on the site. Commissioner Beck would 1683 02:32:12,840 --> 02:32:16,600 can you address any noise impact here again that seems to be one of the 1684 02:32:16,600 --> 02:32:23,640 concerns that this may develop more noise is that um you know and and when 1685 02:32:23,640 --> 02:32:29,440 you look at those uses that are in RCCD and RCCN and ECI I believe they're 1686 02:32:29,440 --> 02:32:35,040 comparable in the maybe generation of noise light all of those kind of off-site 1687 02:32:35,040 --> 02:32:40,880 impacts you typically see so the you know the good news about this site is 1688 02:32:40,880 --> 02:32:45,880 there is a regional drainage area on the west side of the property so that is 1689 02:32:45,880 --> 02:32:52,200 anticipated to remain so if you actually look at their concept plan right now 1690 02:32:52,200 --> 02:32:55,520 there is this drainage area and so the the western part of the site isn't 1691 02:32:55,520 --> 02:33:01,440 anticipated anticipated to develop and once again the site has to be 30% tree 1692 02:33:01,440 --> 02:33:06,440 canopy so there will be those those that landscaping that will help mute things 1693 02:33:06,440 --> 02:33:13,400 like light and noise. Commissioner Smith. When you say storage use are they saying self 1694 02:33:13,400 --> 02:33:17,240 storage uses or storage use of their materials and their product and that kind of thing? 1695 02:33:17,240 --> 02:33:26,600 Right now they are anticipating a trucks and the applicant will be here. Not under 1696 02:33:26,600 --> 02:33:30,800 what I understand the applicant will be here so they may be able to provide you 1697 02:33:30,800 --> 02:33:39,200 more information. And the applicant is also the owner of 1698 02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:43,400 the property meaning that it's not I guess I shouldn't say that the applicant 1699 02:33:43,400 --> 02:33:47,000 is the one who's actually gonna be the one who's building and managing that 1700 02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:49,880 property it's it's it's their own property they're just trying to make an 1701 02:33:49,880 --> 02:33:53,000 addition to their property that's not already allowed in their zoning so 1702 02:33:53,000 --> 02:33:56,440 they're not changing the zoning and then selling it to a developer that kind of 1703 02:33:56,440 --> 02:33:59,880 thing we've seen in some cases. It is it's my understanding and they are here 1704 02:33:59,880 --> 02:34:03,280 that the applicant doesn't currently own the property they did get owner 1705 02:34:03,280 --> 02:34:06,920 authorization for the current property owners but they are in contract to 1706 02:34:06,920 --> 02:34:11,600 purchase the property in order to expand their existing business on it so the 1707 02:34:11,600 --> 02:34:15,560 applicant would would be the developer in this case as they presented to the 1708 02:34:15,560 --> 02:34:22,680 staff. So this is just a snapshot of the comparison of the uses so it might be a 1709 02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:29,220 little hard to see but RCCN is the first column RCCD and then ECI so when you 1710 02:34:29,220 --> 02:34:34,640 just look at the zoning districts RCCN and RCCD are intended to provide 1711 02:34:34,640 --> 02:34:40,240 regional shopping regional commercial development as well as high high density 1712 02:34:40,240 --> 02:34:45,520 residential so it does have residential uses ECI actually nets out those 1713 02:34:45,520 --> 02:34:50,520 residential uses residential is not permitted in ECI they both they all 1714 02:34:50,520 --> 02:34:58,720 three have comparable commercial land uses ECI does does not permit things 1715 02:34:58,720 --> 02:35:03,960 like motels and movie theaters so it does have a little bit different mix of 1716 02:35:03,960 --> 02:35:09,360 those commercial uses but it does allow things like offices industrial land uses 1717 02:35:09,360 --> 02:35:16,000 ECI has has more industrial land uses than do RCCN and RCCD but as I said 1718 02:35:16,000 --> 02:35:19,360 they're more of our lighter lighter industrial light manufacturing 1719 02:35:19,360 --> 02:35:28,320 distribution centers veterinary clinics so and then and then as you can see the 1720 02:35:28,320 --> 02:35:33,360 general regulations here the lot coverage is pretty consistent across our CCD has 1721 02:35:33,360 --> 02:35:38,440 a little bit higher lot coverage our CCD also allows buildings of a hundred feet 1722 02:35:38,440 --> 02:35:43,600 ECI only permits a maximum of 65 feet so it actually would reduce the amount of 1723 02:35:43,600 --> 02:35:48,160 height that good people would be permitted in that in that instance 1724 02:35:48,160 --> 02:35:52,360 notification was sent out the applicant did have a neighborhood meeting there 1725 02:35:52,360 --> 02:35:57,080 were a few neighbors who were concerned and we have received some letters in 1726 02:35:57,080 --> 02:36:01,760 opposition and you can see them there in red due to the the way that the 200 1727 02:36:01,760 --> 02:36:11,420 buffer foot the 200 foot buffer falls we have 1% opposition but but you can see 1728 02:36:11,420 --> 02:36:15,560 those those letters that we received right there so based upon the criteria 1729 02:36:15,560 --> 02:36:19,560 for approval that it is consistent with the future land use designation of the 1730 02:36:19,560 --> 02:36:22,880 subject property and there is adequate infrastructure staff recommends 1731 02:36:22,880 --> 02:36:29,680 approval of the request and I'll stand for any questions I had not seen you thank 1732 02:36:29,680 --> 02:36:36,520 you thank you at this time that will close our work session at 625 we'll take 1733 02:36:36,520 --> 02:36:41,680 a 10-minute recess and reconvene in council chambers at 635 1734 02:36:41,680 --> 02:36:49,480 good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the plan and zoning session 1735 02:36:49,480 --> 02:36:56,760 for January 9th 2019 I'll convene this meeting at 634 the first item on the 1736 02:36:56,760 --> 02:37:01,880 agenda is to stand give the pledge allegiance to the US and Texas flag 1737 02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:38,240 Next item for business is to consider approval of the plan and zoning 1738 02:37:38,240 --> 02:37:44,800 commission meetings from December 12th. Commissioner Beck. I move to approve 1739 02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:52,120 the minutes. Commissioner Smith. Second. We have a first and a second any notes on 1740 02:37:52,120 --> 02:37:57,280 the minutes? Scene 9 will call for a vote on the board. 1741 02:38:13,240 --> 02:38:24,080 Motion carries 6-0 with one recusal. The next items for for business consideration 1742 02:38:24,080 --> 02:38:30,480 is the consent agenda agenda please note that item 3a has been pulled from 1743 02:38:30,480 --> 02:38:36,080 this consent agenda so we'll only be hearing or voting on item 3b 1744 02:38:36,080 --> 02:38:40,320 Commissioner Smith. I move to approve the consent agenda. Commissioner Burnetta. 1745 02:38:40,320 --> 02:38:46,880 I second. We have a first and a second any discussion? Scene 9 will call for a 1746 02:38:46,880 --> 02:38:49,400 vote on the board. 1747 02:38:49,400 --> 02:39:04,000 Motion carries 7-0 next item is 4a it's an item for individual consideration PE 1748 02:39:04,000 --> 02:39:11,280 18-003a I'll call Julie Wyatt for presentation. 1749 02:39:11,280 --> 02:39:26,280 Good evening I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the City of Denton. I'm 1750 02:39:26,280 --> 02:39:33,040 presenting PE 18-3 so the request before you is to consider an extension of a 1751 02:39:33,040 --> 02:39:39,000 previously approved final plot the subject property is located off Johnson 1752 02:39:39,000 --> 02:39:43,760 Street just south of Dallas Drive it's that property outlined in yellow a plot 1753 02:39:43,760 --> 02:39:49,480 was a previously approved on July 13th of 2016 that approval included a review 1754 02:39:49,480 --> 02:39:54,840 of perimeter street improvements storm drain extensions and also a sidewalk 1755 02:39:54,840 --> 02:40:00,680 over the last summer 2018 and the applicant requested and received an 1756 02:40:00,680 --> 02:40:06,760 extension of the plot for six months that plot is set to expire on the 11th 1757 02:40:06,760 --> 02:40:11,320 and so that's why they're here today is to request an additional extension so 1758 02:40:11,320 --> 02:40:16,360 just a little bit of analysis per Denton development code sub chapter 16 if a 1759 02:40:16,360 --> 02:40:19,880 final plot is not filed within two years it becomes null and void unless the 1760 02:40:19,880 --> 02:40:26,280 planning and zoning Commission approves an extension for good cause as I said 1761 02:40:26,280 --> 02:40:30,840 before the final plot was set to expire last July at that time the applicant 1762 02:40:30,840 --> 02:40:35,880 asked for an extension he believed that changes in economic factors would make 1763 02:40:35,880 --> 02:40:39,520 the project economically feasible in the future and the planning and zoning 1764 02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:43,880 Commission did approve that extension for six months to expire on January of 1765 02:40:43,880 --> 02:40:49,520 this year in November the applicant requested an additional extension once 1766 02:40:49,520 --> 02:40:53,160 again citing the same causes construction costs for public 1767 02:40:53,160 --> 02:40:58,280 improvements in the and the anticipation that that economic factors will will 1768 02:40:58,280 --> 02:41:03,480 change in the future however the city has not received any of the required 1769 02:41:03,480 --> 02:41:08,160 documents like the three-way development contracts any of the bond payments that 1770 02:41:08,160 --> 02:41:11,880 would be required for public improvements or communication from the 1771 02:41:11,880 --> 02:41:17,360 applicant to demonstrate that there's been further progress toward completion 1772 02:41:18,000 --> 02:41:23,280 so since the plot was approved in 2016 the city has approved two updates as to 1773 02:41:23,280 --> 02:41:28,200 their criteria manuals to address changes to public improvements and that 1774 02:41:28,200 --> 02:41:32,880 includes things like right-of-way widths and pavement sections staff has 1775 02:41:32,880 --> 02:41:38,240 request the has reviewed their request for extension and since there hasn't 1776 02:41:38,240 --> 02:41:42,360 been any further progress toward completion we recommended the denial 1777 02:41:42,360 --> 02:41:48,400 their quest additionally because due to those changes in the in the criteria for me criteria manuals we 1778 02:41:48,400 --> 02:41:52,400 want to make sure that the development is up to date on the standards that the 1779 02:41:52,400 --> 02:42:01,080 city applies if you if you approve it if you don't don't extend the the plat and 1780 02:42:01,080 --> 02:42:06,040 the and the plat extension is denied the applicant in order to move forward would 1781 02:42:06,040 --> 02:42:10,520 be required to submit for a preliminary plat and final plat and seek approval of 1782 02:42:10,520 --> 02:42:15,560 both of those things that we would also review the engineering plans against any 1783 02:42:15,560 --> 02:42:20,440 updated standards and ensure that development would meet those standards so 1784 02:42:20,440 --> 02:42:29,240 the applicant I believe is here maybe not so I'll stand for any questions I 1785 02:42:29,240 --> 02:42:36,720 don't see the applicant oh okay the applicants in the hallway he's close by 1786 02:42:36,720 --> 02:42:41,000 and I'll stand for any questions perfect thank you Julie we do have a couple 1787 02:42:41,000 --> 02:42:51,280 questions Commissioner Pernetta I didn't see the length of the extension requested 1788 02:42:51,280 --> 02:42:58,720 and they did not request a specific amount of time so when we go to that 1789 02:42:58,720 --> 02:43:18,000 section and the development code there aren't any specific requirements in 1790 02:43:18,000 --> 02:43:22,800 terms of how many extensions or those at length of extensions that could be 1791 02:43:22,800 --> 02:43:29,040 granted so it is it is at the Planning and Zoning Commission's discretion thank 1792 02:43:29,040 --> 02:43:40,000 you I do not see any Commissioner Smith thank you sure it's partially a question 1793 02:43:40,000 --> 02:43:44,960 for staff and really more for a question for Richard in regards to the preliminary 1794 02:43:44,960 --> 02:43:49,360 plot that was filed will the preliminary plotting procedures be changed with the 1795 02:43:49,360 --> 02:43:55,240 DDC update that is coming probably the next six to nine months or so not say 1796 02:43:55,240 --> 02:44:00,440 I should say the process could there have been criteria or items in that 1797 02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:03,520 preliminary practice plot that could be changed by the DDC update coming up 1798 02:44:03,520 --> 02:44:07,040 could you think of anything that off the top your head that your material changes 1799 02:44:07,040 --> 02:44:11,040 now like that wouldn't be something like if the you have another extension got 1800 02:44:11,040 --> 02:44:13,600 past the new DDC update and then by that point in time we'll work with such a 1801 02:44:13,600 --> 02:44:18,600 know what that point timing almost a three year three years from the from the 1802 02:44:18,600 --> 02:44:21,480 approval of the preliminary plot they'd be working off of something that might be 1803 02:44:21,480 --> 02:44:31,480 at a date to the DDC no no no okay thank you and the applicant is here now so I 1804 02:44:31,480 --> 02:44:39,080 do have a question for the applicant is Jim Dewey here if you just state your 1805 02:44:39,080 --> 02:44:43,280 name and address for the record good evening chairman members of the 1806 02:44:43,280 --> 02:44:48,320 Commission I'm Jim Dewey with JDJR engineers 2500 Texas Drive suite 100 1807 02:44:48,320 --> 02:44:53,160 Irving Texas I came before you six months ago to ask for a year's extension 1808 02:44:53,160 --> 02:44:58,240 and at that time explain that the project had come in a little bit over 1809 02:44:58,240 --> 02:45:03,600 budget due to some public infrastructure that was required for some off-site 1810 02:45:03,600 --> 02:45:07,280 drainage and some things that were not anticipated when this project was 1811 02:45:07,280 --> 02:45:13,040 started and that the owner and developer was really working on getting financing 1812 02:45:13,040 --> 02:45:18,120 and should have everything put together before this date I also was told that if 1813 02:45:18,120 --> 02:45:21,520 we've come back that the developer needed to be here to talk for himself 1814 02:45:21,520 --> 02:45:26,600 and fortunately he is here they has made a lot of progress nothing has been made 1815 02:45:26,600 --> 02:45:30,680 in terms of submittals to the city so Julie and staff there was nothing 1816 02:45:30,680 --> 02:45:33,320 submitted city so they have no way of knowing but there has been a lot of work 1817 02:45:33,320 --> 02:45:38,680 behind the scenes and working to try to get this project started he seriously 1818 02:45:38,680 --> 02:45:46,000 wants to get this project going we are asking for another extension we would 1819 02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:53,520 like a year but we know that even six months would would be acceptable it's 1820 02:45:53,520 --> 02:45:56,960 simply about getting the project started from a financing point of view we're not 1821 02:45:56,960 --> 02:46:00,040 trying to change the project we don't want to change the project so we don't 1822 02:46:00,040 --> 02:46:05,080 really want to have to start the process over with a new plat it's certainly we 1823 02:46:05,080 --> 02:46:09,840 could certainly do that but at this point we hope that y'all see that maybe 1824 02:46:09,840 --> 02:46:14,000 there is some really serious work going on and the plat would be recorded prior 1825 02:46:14,000 --> 02:46:20,540 to the end of this next extension so at this point I'd like to turn over to 1826 02:46:20,540 --> 02:46:24,920 side and sorry he is the property owner he did purchase these properties three 1827 02:46:24,920 --> 02:46:29,960 years ago to do this project he owns the properties it's not in his benefit to 1828 02:46:29,960 --> 02:46:33,960 own them forever he wants to develop them and and move on down the road so 1829 02:46:33,960 --> 02:46:37,600 I'm going to introduce you to side and sorry and he's going to kind of explain 1830 02:46:37,600 --> 02:46:40,340 what he's been working on sure we pause real fast 1831 02:46:40,340 --> 02:46:43,960 kisser pretty and Smith you have questions for the engineer or the applicant 1832 02:46:43,960 --> 02:46:51,680 which would be better for applicant Mr. Smith would think you're just I guess I 1833 02:46:51,680 --> 02:46:55,400 should clarify do you have better information about the what his work has 1834 02:46:55,400 --> 02:46:59,040 been done since we gave the extension or the developer of the developer okay the 1835 02:46:59,040 --> 02:47:04,920 way for the developer thank you and if you could just say it's your name and 1836 02:47:04,920 --> 02:47:09,720 address for the record good evening respected members of the council my name 1837 02:47:09,720 --> 02:47:20,180 is said I'm sorry syed ansari and the address is 10209 Savoy Drive in Plano 1838 02:47:20,180 --> 02:47:23,200 Texas 1839 02:47:23,200 --> 02:47:30,640 kisser pernetta do you want to ask your question yeah the description that we 1840 02:47:30,640 --> 02:47:35,680 got on the request for extension was that there were economic factors that 1841 02:47:35,680 --> 02:47:39,700 you were hoping would be resolved within six months and those are kind of 1842 02:47:39,700 --> 02:47:43,960 vague I was wondering if this was an issue of costs or financing or if you 1843 02:47:43,960 --> 02:47:48,000 could give us a little bit more insight into what would be resolved by this 1844 02:47:48,000 --> 02:47:54,600 extension yes actually it's a mixture of both you know if you look at that street 1845 02:47:54,600 --> 02:47:59,680 Johnson Street it's a bunch of single-family old homes that we purchased 1846 02:47:59,680 --> 02:48:04,840 took out about three homes out and combined them to make about 1.8 acres of 1847 02:48:04,840 --> 02:48:11,320 land to put in two buildings essentially making about 52 apartments for students 1848 02:48:11,320 --> 02:48:19,240 and if you look at that street it's when you drive into it in order to you know 1849 02:48:19,240 --> 02:48:24,160 we could see the future as a developer I can see that you know that place is 1850 02:48:24,160 --> 02:48:33,480 going to change a lot the city of course has it has that same idea and it's it's 1851 02:48:33,480 --> 02:48:43,400 now things rezoned as the as a as what do you call it a downtown district so 1852 02:48:43,400 --> 02:48:50,440 but many of the investors who are looking at it with us couldn't we're not 1853 02:48:50,440 --> 02:48:55,640 convinced so the people who are with us at that time and we originally purchased 1854 02:48:55,640 --> 02:49:01,960 it had some questions and this thing we were exploring different options and now 1855 02:49:01,960 --> 02:49:07,360 we are also looking at building something cool for the students like 1856 02:49:07,360 --> 02:49:12,760 using containers you know there's container construction is very popular 1857 02:49:12,760 --> 02:49:20,240 in Europe and it's it is popular in both California New York Canada and places 1858 02:49:20,240 --> 02:49:25,640 like that so we thought bringing something like that might be pretty cool 1859 02:49:25,640 --> 02:49:33,520 for the students we were exploring and doing all this in these few years like 1860 02:49:33,520 --> 02:49:39,840 two or three years and we decided to just stick with the traditional 1861 02:49:39,840 --> 02:49:46,360 construction for now and I have a new partner on board who is here actually 1862 02:49:46,360 --> 02:49:50,960 with me and we've decided to go forward with it as you know with the student 1863 02:49:50,960 --> 02:50:00,360 housing it has to be timed correctly so we plan to open this for residents in 1864 02:50:00,360 --> 02:50:06,400 2020 summer fall you know to be ready in summer so it can be ready ready for 1865 02:50:06,400 --> 02:50:13,720 occupation in fall so if we started with our building plans today it would 1866 02:50:13,720 --> 02:50:17,940 probably take us about six months to get all the approvals for actual the 1867 02:50:17,940 --> 02:50:22,440 building plans and get it ready and if we start construction and in summer of 1868 02:50:22,440 --> 02:50:32,100 2019 we will kick and have this place ready in 2020 fall so that's that's our 1869 02:50:32,100 --> 02:50:37,960 plan so the extension that you're seeking would just be a short term like 1870 02:50:37,960 --> 02:50:43,840 just a few months or we would like it to be at least a year so that you know we 1871 02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:47,120 don't we're not back here requesting another extension we are going to be 1872 02:50:47,120 --> 02:50:52,720 working on the plans and getting those ready 1873 02:50:52,720 --> 02:50:59,760 that's all I've got for now. Commissioner Smith. Thank you chair so I guess to say that we were only 1874 02:50:59,760 --> 02:51:04,160 privy to as much as the staff knows the staff has had nothing updated to them 1875 02:51:04,160 --> 02:51:09,400 since we last gave the extension so what I've heard what you said but what 1876 02:51:09,400 --> 02:51:13,320 exactly have you done since July when you say we've been doing work doing 1877 02:51:13,320 --> 02:51:22,260 behind-the-scenes what does what does I mean I have a few plans that we have 1878 02:51:22,260 --> 02:51:28,680 been working on I can give them to you for to look at you put them on the seat 1879 02:51:28,680 --> 02:51:33,040 of little fields section right there you can actually open them up and put them 1880 02:51:33,040 --> 02:51:39,200 there and they'll put them on that screen yeah you might buy turning it 1881 02:51:39,200 --> 02:51:43,280 sideways so we could see it upright or is that the right way kind of looks 1882 02:51:43,280 --> 02:51:47,400 like there's riding that's up and down 1883 02:51:47,400 --> 02:52:01,840 halfway around yeah it's where it's so this is the container building that we 1884 02:52:01,840 --> 02:52:10,840 were planning and it's actually we could have about maybe about 80 80 to 90 units 1885 02:52:10,840 --> 02:52:16,400 makes it a little more feasible but there's always risk when you do 1886 02:52:16,400 --> 02:52:22,480 something different to new you know symbiosis homes does zero energy ready 1887 02:52:22,480 --> 02:52:29,280 homes and that's what we build and so I I try to do personally something very 1888 02:52:29,280 --> 02:52:36,080 different from what's normally seen in the market so this is something that we 1889 02:52:36,080 --> 02:52:53,840 were developing here's a one and two bedroom apartment complex I mean a flow 1890 02:52:53,840 --> 02:53:00,240 plans and this was actually done by an architect in Seattle contain builders 1891 02:53:00,240 --> 02:53:06,720 who have a lot of experience probably about 15 years of experience and doing 1892 02:53:06,720 --> 02:53:12,400 containers based on this thing and we they were working with our architect Jim 1893 02:53:12,400 --> 02:53:21,160 Dewey for you know consulting with them about the details of this land the 1894 02:53:21,160 --> 02:53:25,920 second question I had was for what you just said to Commissioner Pernetta was 1895 02:53:25,920 --> 02:53:31,000 that really you need another six months to get the documentation and that you 1896 02:53:31,000 --> 02:53:35,920 need for your final plot and then you would need about a year to build and be 1897 02:53:35,920 --> 02:53:40,040 ready by by summer of 2020 so you really don't need a year you read really need 1898 02:53:40,040 --> 02:53:45,320 more like six months to get your to get your final plot in so that's that's 1899 02:53:45,320 --> 02:53:49,200 that's realistically it's not not a year it's it's really six months and then 1900 02:53:49,200 --> 02:53:52,760 whenever you really think about it we've already given a six-month extension to 1901 02:53:52,760 --> 02:53:56,960 something that already allows you two years I know there's been complications 1902 02:53:56,960 --> 02:54:03,000 with the project but to two and a half years is pretty good amount of time to 1903 02:54:03,000 --> 02:54:07,800 if it's people working diligently to be able to secure financing or find a 1904 02:54:07,800 --> 02:54:12,440 remediation for the utility of that that lot for whatever needs to be done so 1905 02:54:12,440 --> 02:54:15,640 sounds like it's much more like six months and that's that's that's the 1906 02:54:15,640 --> 02:54:19,320 basis I'm going to take it off of so thank you for my questions 1907 02:54:19,320 --> 02:54:26,560 Mr. Beck thank you chair thank you mr. I'm sorry I don't know that I spelled it 1908 02:54:26,560 --> 02:54:32,680 right but I got the pronunciation Mr. dude who came before you said you had 1909 02:54:32,680 --> 02:54:37,400 done some serious work there already but all you're showing us are plans on paper 1910 02:54:37,400 --> 02:54:41,960 I don't see any physical has there been any physical work that's actually been 1911 02:54:41,960 --> 02:54:46,760 done in this area or are we just dealing with plans at the site we've not done 1912 02:54:46,760 --> 02:54:52,900 there's no whole lot we just removed the three houses that were there in the 1913 02:54:52,900 --> 02:54:57,320 other thing you know the houses where they're sitting there when we bought 1914 02:54:57,320 --> 02:55:02,680 these whole homes we started buying them about three years ago and some of them 1915 02:55:02,680 --> 02:55:07,600 were rented and we removed them and some of them had we had to do some 1916 02:55:07,600 --> 02:55:13,280 remediation and so on because they had asbestos and stuff like that we got that 1917 02:55:13,280 --> 02:55:19,500 done to get it ready for okay but there's been no breaking of ground to do 1918 02:55:19,500 --> 02:55:27,920 new construction correct okay I'm not getting any feeling of confidence here 1919 02:55:27,920 --> 02:55:32,240 that this thing is really moving along like it should be and as Commissioner 1920 02:55:32,240 --> 02:55:37,600 Smith pointed out I think ample time has been given to get a lot further than you 1921 02:55:37,600 --> 02:55:44,060 have this far it still doesn't sound and correct me if I'm wrong like you've got 1922 02:55:44,060 --> 02:55:48,400 your finances in order here too that you're not gonna be running into 1923 02:55:48,400 --> 02:55:53,260 problems with this down the road is that sound about right I mean it's are your 1924 02:55:53,260 --> 02:55:58,720 finances locked in or are there still some negotiations going on we do 1925 02:55:58,720 --> 02:56:07,340 actually with this project because it's targeted towards students every time we 1926 02:56:07,340 --> 02:56:15,200 miss that time timeline of one year to ready to be ready to build it everything 1927 02:56:15,200 --> 02:56:22,480 the thing slows down you know if I miss summer of this 19 then we will be 1928 02:56:22,480 --> 02:56:25,880 looking at next year we wouldn't be doing anything to live well I think the 1929 02:56:25,880 --> 02:56:29,180 extension is just to get you started somebody correct me if I'm wrong on 1930 02:56:29,180 --> 02:56:33,840 staff we're not looking at you completing this we're looking at you 1931 02:56:33,840 --> 02:56:40,160 getting started on it and then the time it takes it's the time it takes but I 1932 02:56:40,160 --> 02:56:45,680 don't think we even see you starting physical construction within the next 1933 02:56:45,680 --> 02:56:51,920 six months by summer of this year actually what I'm talking about is the 1934 02:56:51,920 --> 02:56:57,920 time it takes we have to time to finish it by the end of summer so that it's 1935 02:56:57,920 --> 02:57:04,040 ready for occupation if I have this ready by summer 2020 2020 right okay the 1936 02:57:04,040 --> 02:57:10,720 other thing that bothers me mr. Ansari is your site plan you're talking about 1937 02:57:10,720 --> 02:57:15,840 changing it from one type of building unit to another that doesn't set well 1938 02:57:15,840 --> 02:57:20,040 either because we need to see what you're proposing here I hear you talking 1939 02:57:20,040 --> 02:57:23,240 about crates and we know what they are we've seen those come before us but it 1940 02:57:23,240 --> 02:57:27,920 seems like if you're gonna change things we need to have a new site plan 1941 02:57:27,920 --> 02:57:33,600 presented to us before we proceed with that this is something internal what we 1942 02:57:33,600 --> 02:57:38,640 were as partners discussing what to do but we need to know are you gonna go 1943 02:57:38,640 --> 02:57:44,060 forward with okay you're not changing it you're not changing the site plan you 1944 02:57:44,060 --> 02:57:48,520 presented to us earlier yeah we are not changing it we've decided to go with the 1945 02:57:48,520 --> 02:57:55,800 traditional construction okay yeah just stick belt with masonry what is as per 1946 02:57:55,800 --> 02:58:00,600 the standards the city is approved yes okay that's what we've decided to do 1947 02:58:00,600 --> 02:58:03,640 all right thank you sir 1948 02:58:03,640 --> 02:58:12,480 at least one clarification they're not allowed to do any on-site construction 1949 02:58:12,480 --> 02:58:16,400 till the Platts filed and what we're here tonight asking for is to extend the 1950 02:58:16,400 --> 02:58:21,360 limit to file the plat so we couldn't do any construction at this point until we 1951 02:58:21,360 --> 02:58:26,440 file the plat so okay that's right so there's nothing that could be happening 1952 02:58:26,440 --> 02:58:31,400 on the site until we get past this process now and to be completely honest 1953 02:58:31,400 --> 02:58:34,520 with you the reason that we don't want to go ahead and file the plat is should 1954 02:58:34,520 --> 02:58:38,480 have something changed they were looking at some alternative designs going back 1955 02:58:38,480 --> 02:58:43,520 to a different and it may require to change in site plan which could affect 1956 02:58:43,520 --> 02:58:48,640 the easements and different things that are shown on the plat right so now that 1957 02:58:48,640 --> 02:58:53,720 they decided to go with what has been approved there would be no changes on 1958 02:58:53,720 --> 02:59:00,120 the plat okay so it now that they've decided to go forward mr. Ansari even 1959 02:59:00,120 --> 02:59:05,520 came in today to see if he could get permission to file the plat now or next 1960 02:59:05,520 --> 02:59:10,480 week or something to avoid this meeting or get going but there's a couple of 1961 02:59:10,480 --> 02:59:15,040 things required that the city is requiring before we can file the plat and 1962 02:59:15,040 --> 02:59:21,360 what those two items are is they want con actual contracts and documents signed 1963 02:59:21,360 --> 02:59:26,240 and executed for construction of the public improvements and on this 1964 02:59:26,240 --> 02:59:29,680 particular project although it's a small project we do have some substantial not 1965 02:59:29,680 --> 02:59:33,560 substantial but significant public improvements in that we have been asked 1966 02:59:33,560 --> 02:59:38,880 to improve Johnson Road and because it's just a little two-lane asphalt road we're 1967 02:59:38,880 --> 02:59:42,840 having to build curb and gutter on one side and put some concrete in just in 1968 02:59:42,840 --> 02:59:47,320 that one little piece and then because there's no drainage out front we're doing 1969 02:59:47,320 --> 02:59:51,680 stormwater detention to keep the drainage the same as what is currently 1970 02:59:51,680 --> 02:59:56,840 there but for some reason didn't has the only city I know that has this code is 1971 02:59:56,840 --> 03:00:01,280 you can do detention but you're not allowed to do detention if you don't 1972 03:00:01,280 --> 03:00:06,240 have an underground outlet so when we first pros to detention we were just 1973 03:00:06,240 --> 03:00:09,880 letting the water back out into the street bar ditch like it's going down 1974 03:00:09,880 --> 03:00:14,520 that could not get approved so we ended up having to go like 400 feet down 1975 03:00:14,520 --> 03:00:18,040 Johnson Road in the middle of the road and put in a storm drain even though 1976 03:00:18,040 --> 03:00:23,460 we're doing detention and so there was kind of quite a lot of there's some 1977 03:00:23,460 --> 03:00:27,880 public improvements here okay that need to be that have to be signed off on and 1978 03:00:27,880 --> 03:00:31,480 those contracts submitted and they certainly weren't in a process a point 1979 03:00:31,480 --> 03:00:36,360 to be able to do that to record the plat but now that they're moving forward they 1980 03:00:36,360 --> 03:00:41,080 can get bids on that work I've already got bids but get those contracts in so 1981 03:00:41,080 --> 03:00:45,560 that we can record the plat okay and so so you know I understand your 1982 03:00:45,560 --> 03:00:54,640 frustration and what has happened right but we're at a point now where they don't 1983 03:00:54,640 --> 03:01:00,840 you know they need to be under construction by the summer but you know 1984 03:01:00,840 --> 03:01:05,320 they still have to go through a building permit now that they've tried it decided 1985 03:01:05,320 --> 03:01:09,420 not to change what is on the approved site plan development plans they can 1986 03:01:09,420 --> 03:01:12,240 proceed with getting their actual building the only thing left is the 1987 03:01:12,240 --> 03:01:16,600 building drawings and you feel like you need an actual year to do all that or 1988 03:01:16,600 --> 03:01:25,160 you just asking for a year to be safe well I never like to speak against the 1989 03:01:25,160 --> 03:01:32,440 client I'm representing but I think I think a six months if the plat they 1990 03:01:32,440 --> 03:01:38,960 can record the plat by this July at the latest which would be six months and I 1991 03:01:38,960 --> 03:01:45,800 think that would be sufficient okay because waiting till six months I mean a 1992 03:01:45,800 --> 03:01:50,400 year from now they're not making the deadline they're trying to make that so 1993 03:01:50,400 --> 03:01:54,040 they can record the plat by July and if they'd only have a building it doesn't 1994 03:01:54,040 --> 03:01:56,980 it's not really tying them to the building permit they may not may or may 1995 03:01:56,980 --> 03:02:04,080 not have the building permit right but I think I feel I feel like getting a six 1996 03:02:04,080 --> 03:02:08,560 month extension would is a reasonable time reasonable okay very good thank you 1997 03:02:08,560 --> 03:02:13,600 sir Commissioner Ellis thank you chair just one 1998 03:02:13,600 --> 03:02:19,240 question is the project financed what is your question is the project financed 1999 03:02:19,240 --> 03:02:32,280 financed that would be a question I'm just an engineer a part of it may be a 2000 03:02:32,280 --> 03:02:38,240 finance but we are trying to do it internally meaning do you have your 2001 03:02:38,240 --> 03:02:49,680 investor secured that's right Mr. Sanchez so what do you think is your 2002 03:02:49,680 --> 03:02:52,600 biggest problem we're talking about two and a half years what has been your 2003 03:02:52,600 --> 03:02:57,120 primary problem for the two and a half years that has taken this so that has 2004 03:02:57,120 --> 03:03:03,760 taken this long I would say the location location yeah I I can see the future 2005 03:03:03,760 --> 03:03:09,520 like I mean I can I can foresee what is happening you know that's what that's 2006 03:03:09,520 --> 03:03:15,520 how I got interested in it but I've not been able to convince a whole lot of 2007 03:03:15,520 --> 03:03:21,180 buyers who would be ready to buy there but now I hear that there's more 2008 03:03:21,180 --> 03:03:26,280 development taking place which is in line with what we are doing so that's 2009 03:03:26,280 --> 03:03:30,920 it's a good sign but I guess I'm talking about specifically what is it your 2010 03:03:30,920 --> 03:03:34,940 financing that has been a problem is it all the requirements that the city has 2011 03:03:34,940 --> 03:03:41,040 has that you think has imposed on you or what what would you say because I mean 2012 03:03:41,040 --> 03:03:46,640 two and a half two and a half years is a long time and so there must be one issue 2013 03:03:46,640 --> 03:03:51,600 or one or two issues that you're really struggling with and I don't think you've 2014 03:03:51,600 --> 03:04:03,160 communicated that to to us yet I guess you know initially it was some internal 2015 03:04:03,160 --> 03:04:10,840 discussions among investors that delayed the project as we were not sure that it 2016 03:04:10,840 --> 03:04:16,200 was financially a viable project because the project also became very expensive 2017 03:04:16,200 --> 03:04:22,220 because of all the public improvements we were doing to this so it is just not 2018 03:04:22,220 --> 03:04:27,240 you know a plane apartment complex that we build we were also doing a lot of 2019 03:04:27,240 --> 03:04:32,240 public and by the cost went up quite a bit so the whole project became very 2020 03:04:32,240 --> 03:04:37,200 expensive so that that that was one of the reasons why it got delayed a little 2021 03:04:37,200 --> 03:04:39,320 bit 2022 03:04:43,200 --> 03:04:54,800 mr. Pernetta a few questions I think was some for staff so in terms of what we're 2023 03:04:54,800 --> 03:04:59,720 voting on here right now my understanding is that right now before 2024 03:04:59,720 --> 03:05:03,920 we even get to the final plat being submitted there are public works that 2025 03:05:03,920 --> 03:05:10,440 would have to be completed by the developer before we can get to that or 2026 03:05:12,480 --> 03:05:19,360 okay all right so with any with any plot once a final plot is approved they then 2027 03:05:19,360 --> 03:05:25,640 start the the the process for the public improvement so within that process there 2028 03:05:25,640 --> 03:05:30,800 are the the development contracts as well as a fiscal surety there's also 2029 03:05:30,800 --> 03:05:36,360 something called we do a hold harmless so that it allows developers to move 2030 03:05:36,360 --> 03:05:43,320 forward private the private improvements concurrent with or prior to the public 2031 03:05:43,320 --> 03:05:48,440 improvement so all of these the so that the contracts the fiscal surety and the 2032 03:05:48,440 --> 03:05:53,400 hold harmless would need to be completed prior to the plat being filed once a 2033 03:05:53,400 --> 03:05:58,080 plot is a is filed then they can start moving forward with the public and 2034 03:05:58,080 --> 03:06:11,120 private improvements so with this denial if there were to be a denial there are 2035 03:06:11,120 --> 03:06:15,560 there were updates to the to the coats right that would have to be accounted 2036 03:06:15,560 --> 03:06:22,280 for for the plat that weren't in place when it was previously when it previously 2037 03:06:22,280 --> 03:06:26,040 came before us correct well our engineering has really committed to 2038 03:06:26,040 --> 03:06:30,240 updating those criteria manuals on a yearly basis to ensure that our public 2039 03:06:30,240 --> 03:06:34,920 improvements and the and the and the the requirements associated with those are 2040 03:06:34,920 --> 03:06:40,040 are up to the best practices so since this was approved that we've had a 2041 03:06:40,040 --> 03:06:44,800 couple of updates to our criteria manuals and I expect as as we move forward they 2042 03:06:44,800 --> 03:06:50,400 will continue to look at those and make improvements upon those if if if there 2043 03:06:50,400 --> 03:06:56,560 wasn't an extension granted for this plat he would have to come back again 2044 03:06:56,560 --> 03:07:01,200 with a preliminary plat civil engineering plans for public improvements 2045 03:07:01,200 --> 03:07:06,200 and then a final plat and those civil plans would be reviewed in accordance 2046 03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:11,680 with those new requirements in the criteria manuals and the other timeline 2047 03:07:11,680 --> 03:07:15,920 we've been given was that they were targeting having this done by summer of 2048 03:07:15,920 --> 03:07:21,420 2020 which is you know a year and a half a little bit over than that a little over 2049 03:07:21,420 --> 03:07:27,240 that away if they had to start the process all over again would meeting 2050 03:07:27,240 --> 03:07:34,360 that timeline be extremely prohibitive or could that still be done I don't know 2051 03:07:34,360 --> 03:07:38,360 when the construction side typically a preliminary and final and I think 2052 03:07:38,360 --> 03:07:42,920 they've probably done some preliminary work because they've they've gone 2053 03:07:42,920 --> 03:07:48,280 through this process with this before a plat typically takes a couple of months 2054 03:07:48,280 --> 03:07:51,080 to get through the review and to the planning and zoning Commission 2055 03:07:51,080 --> 03:07:55,560 preliminary and final plats can and civil plans can be reviewed concurrently 2056 03:07:55,560 --> 03:07:59,200 so they could stack those applications on top of each other of course the 2057 03:07:59,200 --> 03:08:03,800 approvals have to come in order so preliminary plat approved civil plans 2058 03:08:03,800 --> 03:08:09,440 and then final plat so it if they wanted to be under construction by this summer 2059 03:08:09,440 --> 03:08:14,240 it would be it would be a push but it certainly could be done we typically see 2060 03:08:14,240 --> 03:08:18,320 development contracts taking a couple of months because they do submit them to us 2061 03:08:18,320 --> 03:08:21,200 and we review them to make sure that they're accurate and make sure that 2062 03:08:21,200 --> 03:08:29,120 they're they have all all of the the the parts of the contract are filled out in 2063 03:08:29,120 --> 03:08:33,880 accordance with with the ownership and and and the requirements of the city and 2064 03:08:33,880 --> 03:08:39,240 so and it does take a couple of months to get through that contract phase but 2065 03:08:39,240 --> 03:08:43,920 that could certainly be pursued while they're also having their plats reviewed 2066 03:08:43,920 --> 03:08:50,640 so so it could be done within within a six month time frame but they would it 2067 03:08:50,640 --> 03:08:56,840 would be a they'd be moving on it so okay thank you that's all right 2068 03:08:56,840 --> 03:09:06,240 mr. Smith thank you chair mr. sorry back front of the mic there just to just to 2069 03:09:06,240 --> 03:09:12,240 go off of Commissioner Ellis's line of questioning because I don't I don't 2070 03:09:12,240 --> 03:09:16,480 think I got a definitive answer from you you have secured an investor for the 2071 03:09:16,480 --> 03:09:21,960 full dollar amount that needed to go forward into this project yes thank you 2072 03:09:21,960 --> 03:09:29,120 okay so I have a question kind of piggybacking on that back on July 11th 2073 03:09:29,120 --> 03:09:33,840 we were told that the main holdup for not having this filed was funding yes 2074 03:09:33,840 --> 03:09:38,440 you're saying tonight that funding has been secured yes so I'm now curious as 2075 03:09:38,440 --> 03:09:43,560 is the the reason that the project hasn't moved forward moved it's shifted 2076 03:09:43,560 --> 03:09:50,160 it was funding but now there's a different reason for an extension the 2077 03:09:50,160 --> 03:09:59,200 extension was for six months we we have funding now actually the gentleman here 2078 03:09:59,200 --> 03:10:07,000 mr. Bilal he's he's the one who's coming in as the new investor sure 2079 03:10:07,000 --> 03:10:11,720 that the looking back over the minutes of the meeting that we were at in July 2080 03:10:11,720 --> 03:10:17,560 the extension was for that reason yes you've met that reason yeah but yet 2081 03:10:17,560 --> 03:10:20,240 you're not moving forward with the project I'm trying to connect the dots 2082 03:10:20,240 --> 03:10:25,680 of we provide an extension for funding funding happened yet you're back for 2083 03:10:25,680 --> 03:10:29,920 another extension why are you back for another extension if the reason it was 2084 03:10:29,920 --> 03:10:37,480 postponed to begin with is no longer an issue we recently got the the funding it 2085 03:10:37,480 --> 03:10:48,960 was just in the last month that we got this funding so yes like the planner 2086 03:10:48,960 --> 03:10:54,160 said even processing those documents that are required the contracts for the 2087 03:10:54,160 --> 03:10:57,800 public improvements and the assurances and things that are needed takes about 2088 03:10:57,800 --> 03:11:02,560 two months just getting those to an approval process so if they started if 2089 03:11:02,560 --> 03:11:07,480 they could have submit those today we couldn't file the plat for another two 2090 03:11:07,480 --> 03:11:13,600 or three months so now that they just started I mean they need to get to get a 2091 03:11:13,600 --> 03:11:18,280 sick if we get a six month extension we're going to July okay they've got to 2092 03:11:18,280 --> 03:11:24,120 submit all of this information that is required before we can file the plat 2093 03:11:24,120 --> 03:11:30,760 within the next couple months at the very latest in order to make that 2094 03:11:30,760 --> 03:11:36,720 extension because the city is still waiting on contracts for the public 2095 03:11:36,720 --> 03:11:43,160 improvements actual contracts that he has signed the city's signs and agrees 2096 03:11:43,160 --> 03:11:51,080 to get a contractor and start that work they were not even close to that until 2097 03:11:51,080 --> 03:11:55,960 they get funding and unfortunately we asked for an extension to get funding we 2098 03:11:55,960 --> 03:12:01,320 did get funding in the six months but not in time to submit contracts three 2099 03:12:01,320 --> 03:12:06,240 months ago so that we could have filed it a month or two weeks ago so those 2100 03:12:06,240 --> 03:12:10,080 contracts now been submitted post having funding received no they're going to 2101 03:12:10,080 --> 03:12:14,800 start getting those together now we haven't so how recently did funding get 2102 03:12:14,800 --> 03:12:21,200 acquired we turn days or it was in December can you be more specific I'm 2103 03:12:21,200 --> 03:12:30,160 more specific like the second week of December okay okay I have no other 2104 03:12:30,160 --> 03:12:35,960 questions I don't see any other questions so this is an individual item 2105 03:12:35,960 --> 03:12:41,560 so it's not a public hearing however the chair will entertain a motion or 2106 03:12:41,560 --> 03:12:49,280 discussion on the matter and just just for clarification the motion put forth 2107 03:12:49,280 --> 03:12:55,680 should include the proposed duration of a renewal if if you're proposing that if 2108 03:12:55,680 --> 03:12:57,240 it's denial obviously there's not a timeline 2109 03:12:57,240 --> 03:13:02,200 mr. Smith thank you kind of go against even when our work session was about 2110 03:13:02,200 --> 03:13:05,840 which is about parliamentary procedure that we don't have a motion on the floor 2111 03:13:05,840 --> 03:13:09,680 but I want to have discussion first is that just kind of let everyone know that 2112 03:13:09,680 --> 03:13:14,240 what I'm thinking before I make a motion I guess well we learn nothing we're all 2113 03:13:14,240 --> 03:13:23,920 idiots okay there's like two hours I've had cookies since then so forgot the it 2114 03:13:23,920 --> 03:13:27,640 it does sound like they've they've secured the funding they need they didn't 2115 03:13:27,640 --> 03:13:30,960 the timeline didn't work out to get it the most I would ever want to give would 2116 03:13:30,960 --> 03:13:35,120 be six months I think that was my my biggest thing is there any is there any 2117 03:13:35,120 --> 03:13:39,920 inhibition to them getting them continuing on and having their project done the 2118 03:13:39,920 --> 03:13:44,920 answer is no then six months from now if things are not what were that fight on 2119 03:13:44,920 --> 03:13:49,400 plaque can be filed then it would be a hard hard no for me to ever give them an 2120 03:13:49,400 --> 03:13:52,720 extension again that's actually something I was busy with legal about and 2121 03:13:52,720 --> 03:13:56,360 so I'd like to hear what everyone else's thoughts are and baby talking talking me 2122 03:13:56,360 --> 03:14:01,800 out of that but that is my that is my thought process right now is that the 2123 03:14:01,800 --> 03:14:06,040 timeline worked against them at this point so so we have several people 2124 03:14:06,040 --> 03:14:10,560 wanting to discuss I will say having a motion on the floor kind of centers the 2125 03:14:10,560 --> 03:14:13,920 discussion so if there is a motion be happy to hear it but until then 2126 03:14:13,920 --> 03:14:21,960 commissioner Beck okay the monkey bone back of Commissioner Smith's comments to 2127 03:14:21,960 --> 03:14:26,700 be honest with you I haven't felt a whole lot of confidence from the 2128 03:14:26,700 --> 03:14:31,760 developer that things as concrete as they need to be on the other hand though 2129 03:14:31,760 --> 03:14:37,800 I'm reluctant to say no to somebody that's still willing to try this and I 2130 03:14:37,800 --> 03:14:42,320 feel like if we do go forward this it would be a strict six months with the 2131 03:14:42,320 --> 03:14:46,760 understanding that we have that final plan and hand and things start because 2132 03:14:46,760 --> 03:14:51,000 after that as far as I'm concerned I think most Commissioners would agree it's 2133 03:14:51,000 --> 03:14:57,360 it's been way too long now as it has been already so Commissioner Smith I make 2134 03:14:57,360 --> 03:15:03,440 a motion to this would be a motion to adopt a denial so I actually would make 2135 03:15:03,440 --> 03:15:10,280 them I move to give an extension of a date certain of the first planning and 2136 03:15:10,280 --> 03:15:13,800 zoning meeting of July I don't have the calendar in front of me to tell you what 2137 03:15:13,800 --> 03:15:16,520 that date would be 2138 03:15:19,600 --> 03:15:27,800 it's July 17th I move to move to approve the proof extension of this until date 2139 03:15:27,800 --> 03:15:35,640 certain of July 17th 2019 we have a first Commissioner Sanchez like second 2140 03:15:35,640 --> 03:15:41,580 it thank you and commercial center per netta for any discussion yeah that was 2141 03:15:41,580 --> 03:15:45,840 actually going to be something I was going to suggest because I'm my reading 2142 03:15:45,840 --> 03:15:49,640 of the minutes was that they came for an extension earlier in the year they could 2143 03:15:49,640 --> 03:15:52,960 have asked for a year or actually last year they could have asked for a year 2144 03:15:52,960 --> 03:15:57,680 they got six months so by doing that we would be granting them in effect the 2145 03:15:57,680 --> 03:16:03,920 extension that they could have asked for the first time I'm good with this 2146 03:16:03,920 --> 03:16:09,560 Mr. Sanchez do you have any more discussion going to add no pretty much 2147 03:16:09,560 --> 03:16:17,800 I think one of the things that I would say is because it's the reason I would 2148 03:16:17,800 --> 03:16:23,720 approve it extension is because it's it's what they call interior within the 2149 03:16:23,720 --> 03:16:29,560 city and I think a lot of times those what's left is a little bit harder to 2150 03:16:29,560 --> 03:16:33,680 develop than either easy stuff has already been developed so I think 2151 03:16:33,680 --> 03:16:37,280 sometimes some of these areas that are left if we want to get them developed we 2152 03:16:37,280 --> 03:16:41,480 have to hit be a little bit more considerate about the developers simply 2153 03:16:41,480 --> 03:16:46,680 because those areas are kind of more unique than other places so I that's why 2154 03:16:46,680 --> 03:16:50,720 I would give the extension but I would like to say is you have to get on the 2155 03:16:50,720 --> 03:16:55,000 ball and get it taken care of because this isn't going to continue 2156 03:16:55,000 --> 03:17:01,360 crucial thank you chair I'm gonna be a no vote on the extension I'm just not 2157 03:17:01,360 --> 03:17:05,920 confident in that financing secured financing is the problem in my opinion I 2158 03:17:05,920 --> 03:17:11,280 also respect the updates to our finance our our criteria manuals were two years 2159 03:17:11,280 --> 03:17:18,160 into that plus this just stalls it in in old manuals and and I'm not on board to 2160 03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:25,080 do that we have a first and a second for an approval of an extension for six 2161 03:17:25,080 --> 03:17:32,200 months to a date of July 17th is there any more discussion on the item 2162 03:17:32,200 --> 03:17:38,400 Commissioner Pernetta yeah I would like to ask staff per Commissioner Ellis's 2163 03:17:38,400 --> 03:17:44,560 point now about the updates what specifically are we looking at you know 2164 03:17:44,560 --> 03:17:49,720 that we would be freezing for the next year and a half of who to approve this 2165 03:17:49,720 --> 03:17:55,440 um a lot of the changes do you have to do with those right-of-way wits and and 2166 03:17:55,440 --> 03:18:01,360 just just you know additional technical improvements to to what the engineering 2167 03:18:01,360 --> 03:18:05,960 group reviews I don't have the specific items in front of me but they do try to 2168 03:18:05,960 --> 03:18:10,880 keep them updated to ensure that the industry standards are met so so 2169 03:18:10,880 --> 03:18:14,480 basically street wits and things like that nothing regarding environmental or 2170 03:18:14,480 --> 03:18:20,080 anything and that would provide not environmental be issue no it wouldn't 2171 03:18:20,080 --> 03:18:24,640 be it wouldn't be an environmental it would be things like the drainage water 2172 03:18:24,640 --> 03:18:28,840 sewer and streets those those public improvements are typically what we're 2173 03:18:28,840 --> 03:18:35,080 looking at okay thank you sure let me just add a part of that part of the 2174 03:18:35,080 --> 03:18:38,760 updates to the the transportation criteria manual were those street wits 2175 03:18:38,760 --> 03:18:44,240 but also the thickness of the concrete I know there were some issues with some 2176 03:18:44,240 --> 03:18:50,280 rights of way that were just not holding up and so that was one of the one of the 2177 03:18:50,280 --> 03:18:55,120 items that prompted prompted that that update so there were now sort of in an 2178 03:18:55,120 --> 03:18:59,640 annual basis for for updating those if you recall I think was right before the 2179 03:18:59,640 --> 03:19:04,040 end of the year they had brought those forward for consideration just wanted to 2180 03:19:04,040 --> 03:19:12,840 clarify that thank you the only point I would make is sir for my opinion is I'm 2181 03:19:12,840 --> 03:19:17,840 with Commissioner Sanchez and Smith I think it was who said the six months is 2182 03:19:17,840 --> 03:19:23,520 kind of the end I feel like Commissioner Ellis not very confident this project 2183 03:19:23,520 --> 03:19:26,280 moving forward it seems like there's a moving target of reasons why it hasn't 2184 03:19:26,280 --> 03:19:30,680 happened however I'd rather see something developed sooner rather than 2185 03:19:30,680 --> 03:19:34,960 later so this gives the opportunity for it to be developed in a shorter term 2186 03:19:34,960 --> 03:19:41,280 timeline so with that I'll call for a vote on the board 2187 03:19:49,440 --> 03:19:57,960 motion passes 6 1 the next item for business is public hearing 5a it's z 18 2188 03:19:57,960 --> 03:20:07,320 - 0 0 1 1 a I'll open the public hearing and call Julie Wyatt for presentation 2189 03:20:20,440 --> 03:20:28,200 all right good evening this is the 1811 agave ranch so the request before you is 2190 03:20:28,200 --> 03:20:33,680 to consider a rezoning from rural residential 5 district to neighborhood 2191 03:20:33,680 --> 03:20:38,360 residential 4 district and an initial zoning designation of in our for 2192 03:20:38,360 --> 03:20:43,080 neighborhood residential 4 district on approximately 92 acres of land the 2193 03:20:43,080 --> 03:20:46,360 subject property is situated on the northeast side of town it's there 2194 03:20:46,360 --> 03:20:54,360 outlined in yellow it's just outside of the loop north of Hartley field so the 2195 03:20:54,360 --> 03:20:59,480 current zoning on the side actually has a split zoning our D5 is adjacent to FM 2196 03:20:59,480 --> 03:21:05,200 428 Sherman and then our D5 acts is the our place holding zoning designation it 2197 03:21:05,200 --> 03:21:08,680 follows the regulations in our D5 but it it's one of those zoning 2198 03:21:08,680 --> 03:21:14,480 designations that is there to hold hold the property once it's annexed into the 2199 03:21:14,480 --> 03:21:19,520 site if you'll just take a little closer look at the existing zoning pattern in 2200 03:21:19,520 --> 03:21:23,960 the area there is in our four to the south of the subject site as well as 2201 03:21:23,960 --> 03:21:31,880 across the street you may remember there was a rezoning across FM 428 in this 2202 03:21:31,880 --> 03:21:36,840 location recently that in our six was approved with an overlay I believe it 2203 03:21:36,840 --> 03:21:42,760 was to restrict the density to a four point six seven dwelling units an acre I 2204 03:21:42,760 --> 03:21:47,160 think somewhere around there so as you get closer to the loop at loop it gets 2205 03:21:47,160 --> 03:21:51,880 it it pulls in more of that commercial zoning so you've got CMG and that's one 2206 03:21:51,880 --> 03:21:55,240 of that's our community mixed use so it does allow a lot of those commercial 2207 03:21:55,240 --> 03:21:59,880 uses to serve the surrounding community to the south there there are a lot of 2208 03:21:59,880 --> 03:22:04,120 neighborhoods with that neighborhood zoning so they are proposing in this on 2209 03:22:04,120 --> 03:22:10,040 this slide to to rezone the subject site to NR 4 and and you can see what that 2210 03:22:10,040 --> 03:22:15,000 would look like if it was approved here's their proposed concept plan I 2211 03:22:15,000 --> 03:22:21,200 would I would just look at this as a concept it is it is a draft if the 2212 03:22:21,200 --> 03:22:25,280 zoning was approved they could develop the site in accordance with that zoning 2213 03:22:25,280 --> 03:22:32,400 both in density and scale and in use so so as this is shown the total land area 2214 03:22:32,400 --> 03:22:39,680 of 96 acres is is developed with 368 homes with some open space area for 2215 03:22:39,680 --> 03:22:47,680 drainage here in the south just a comparison of the of the uses permitted 2216 03:22:47,680 --> 03:22:56,360 in RD five and RD five X versus in our four so so our RD five is is a rural 2217 03:22:56,360 --> 03:23:02,200 district it's our rural residential district and so it it it has residential 2218 03:23:02,200 --> 03:23:08,240 uses single-family agriculture it does permit manufactured housing 2219 03:23:08,240 --> 03:23:14,840 developments commercial uses are are a few of them are permitted but typically 2220 03:23:14,840 --> 03:23:19,680 those you see in rural areas things like a bed and breakfast with a limitation or 2221 03:23:19,680 --> 03:23:26,400 equestrian facilities veterinary clinics so those types of uses in our four has a 2222 03:23:26,400 --> 03:23:31,840 lot of residential uses it primarily is one of our our main residential 2223 03:23:31,840 --> 03:23:36,680 districts in the city it does permit agriculture attached single-family 2224 03:23:36,680 --> 03:23:41,880 dwellings which is also known as a townhome duplexes with the limitation and 2225 03:23:41,880 --> 03:23:47,920 then those single-family homes it doesn't really permit commercial uses it 2226 03:23:47,920 --> 03:23:51,720 does allow veterinary clinics with the limitation but it really is primarily 2227 03:23:51,720 --> 03:23:56,440 primarily a residential district both districts have institutional land uses 2228 03:23:56,440 --> 03:24:00,560 some of those are permitted by right under current zoning under NR four they 2229 03:24:00,560 --> 03:24:05,000 would typically be permitted with a specific use permit the development 2230 03:24:05,000 --> 03:24:10,720 scale for RD five and in our four is the minimum lot size and already five is five 2231 03:24:10,720 --> 03:24:14,760 acres in our four it does allow seven thousand square feet a square foot lots 2232 03:24:14,760 --> 03:24:19,480 for neighborhoods under two acres those neighborhoods over two acres just rely 2233 03:24:19,480 --> 03:24:24,280 on a maximum density and that's four dwelling units per acre lot coverage and 2234 03:24:24,280 --> 03:24:28,340 in our four is a maximum sixty percent and that's all impervious surface within 2235 03:24:28,340 --> 03:24:33,200 the city of Denton and then building height would be 40 feet so the criteria 2236 03:24:33,200 --> 03:24:36,280 for approval is in such after three of the Denton development code the first one 2237 03:24:36,280 --> 03:24:42,120 does it does it meet the future land use map of didn't plan 2030 the future land 2238 03:24:42,120 --> 03:24:46,880 use map shows this area is a rural area the intent is to maintain the rural 2239 03:24:46,880 --> 03:24:51,040 character along the city's edge with development and farms and ranches I'm in 2240 03:24:51,040 --> 03:24:55,480 very low density writ rural residential and conservation development the proposed 2241 03:24:55,480 --> 03:24:59,320 in our four due to the density associated with it does not meet this 2242 03:24:59,320 --> 03:25:05,040 future land use designation so then it kicks to another criteria another set of 2243 03:25:05,040 --> 03:25:08,680 criteria for approval and those are also in sub chapter three of the Denton 2244 03:25:08,680 --> 03:25:12,440 development code and there are seven criteria they're listed here they're 2245 03:25:12,440 --> 03:25:16,320 also listed in your backup with some analysis associated with which with each 2246 03:25:16,320 --> 03:25:20,280 we won't go over every single one we'll just go over some of them and we'll 2247 03:25:20,280 --> 03:25:26,560 combine some of them just as a discussion so the first two criteria are 2248 03:25:26,560 --> 03:25:32,120 the existing land uses and zoning and impact to future development so so as we 2249 03:25:32,120 --> 03:25:36,880 look at this property it is near rural areas there's a lot of surrounding rural 2250 03:25:36,880 --> 03:25:44,460 area but it is it is urbanizing from the core of the city out so the map here 2251 03:25:44,460 --> 03:25:49,680 kind of shows what kind of development this city has seen in in recent years the 2252 03:25:49,680 --> 03:26:01,320 yellow dots represent recent or future or current developments all the way from 2253 03:26:01,320 --> 03:26:05,840 from the Kingsridge development you saw recently and then and then across the 2254 03:26:05,840 --> 03:26:11,040 loop so as you can see there is a lot of development pushing north in the city a 2255 03:26:11,040 --> 03:26:14,680 lot of the interior of the city has filled up and now it's starting to push 2256 03:26:14,680 --> 03:26:20,560 to the north so we're seeing that all across that all across that loop area 2257 03:26:20,560 --> 03:26:25,200 and this really is showing a contiguous growth pattern we are seeing that stage 2258 03:26:25,200 --> 03:26:31,320 development filling in interior and then moving out outside of the loop however 2259 03:26:31,320 --> 03:26:35,520 this you know this is a lot this is a lot of development it's a lot of new 2260 03:26:35,520 --> 03:26:41,200 residents to our community and so staff really wanted to make sure that we we got 2261 03:26:41,200 --> 03:26:45,920 our hands around and understood what the traffic concerns were and so there has 2262 03:26:45,920 --> 03:26:48,960 been a traffic study that is currently under review we're going to go over in a 2263 03:26:48,960 --> 03:26:54,840 minute but just to just to lay the groundwork on that so we also looked at 2264 03:26:54,840 --> 03:27:00,040 the existing land uses in zoning it is adjacent to existing in our four so if 2265 03:27:00,040 --> 03:27:03,640 this was approved it wouldn't be an isolated zoning district it would be an 2266 03:27:03,640 --> 03:27:08,720 extension of that existing zoning pattern and if I proved that in our four 2267 03:27:08,720 --> 03:27:12,920 and the development associated with it could provide a buffer area for those 2268 03:27:12,920 --> 03:27:21,840 outlying rural areas to the to the Sherman that FM 428 as well as a lot of 2269 03:27:21,840 --> 03:27:27,600 that that intense development that is that is permitted and probably something 2270 03:27:27,600 --> 03:27:34,240 we'll see in the near future at that intersection of the loop and FM 428 we 2271 03:27:34,240 --> 03:27:38,920 also looked at the public improvement section public improvements associated 2272 03:27:38,920 --> 03:27:43,740 with with the proposed development so the applicant did do a trip generation 2273 03:27:43,740 --> 03:27:50,080 analysis based on the proposed number of homes they they estimated that there 2274 03:27:50,080 --> 03:27:56,480 would be a total of about 3,500 trips per day within a 24-hour period with an 2275 03:27:56,480 --> 03:28:01,640 a.m. peak of 280 and a p.m. peak of 368 we talked in the work session that 2276 03:28:01,640 --> 03:28:05,120 really is that that commuting time when everybody's gonna be going to work and 2277 03:28:05,120 --> 03:28:10,360 when everybody's coming home but beyond that we really wanted to understand not 2278 03:28:10,360 --> 03:28:14,840 just this development but all of those developments on that northeast corridor 2279 03:28:14,840 --> 03:28:19,120 so there was a transportation study commissioned by the city it is being 2280 03:28:19,120 --> 03:28:26,080 reviewed it's it's in draft form right now and just on a top-line assessment 2281 03:28:26,080 --> 03:28:30,640 they are proposing more East East West connections to allow more connectivity 2282 03:28:30,640 --> 03:28:34,680 you know FM 428 it really is the spine that takes you in and out of Denton and 2283 03:28:34,680 --> 03:28:38,600 that and it is kind of the only the only option you have so with more East West 2284 03:28:38,600 --> 03:28:42,040 connections there would be a diff additional connections and other ways to 2285 03:28:42,040 --> 03:28:47,760 go proposing additional travel lanes on existing roads and also to improve 2286 03:28:47,760 --> 03:28:54,360 intersections also with any development roadway impact fees would be paid with 2287 03:28:54,360 --> 03:28:59,280 each building permit and they would they would contribute to previously identified 2288 03:28:59,280 --> 03:29:05,440 improvements namely the dedicated right turn at loop 288 and FM 428 and also a 2289 03:29:05,440 --> 03:29:08,720 signal at that intersection I know that's something that that part of our 2290 03:29:08,720 --> 03:29:17,600 community really wants and needs so here is a draft a draft map that was taken 2291 03:29:17,600 --> 03:29:23,600 from that study and and and staff collaborated with engineering we we 2292 03:29:23,600 --> 03:29:28,560 looked at at at the number of cases and the number of inquiries we got from this 2293 03:29:28,560 --> 03:29:34,200 area and we realized that that we didn't have the capacity to move people around 2294 03:29:34,200 --> 03:29:41,080 if all of those were to move forward so so we collaborated with engineering and 2295 03:29:41,080 --> 03:29:46,240 then and then they hired an outside consultant to create this study and and 2296 03:29:46,240 --> 03:29:50,320 we used a methodology we kind of just assumed blanket to see what if this 2297 03:29:50,320 --> 03:29:55,920 whole area developed with four dwelling units in a an acre as well as some some 2298 03:29:55,920 --> 03:30:01,960 targeted some targeted areas for commercial development that were 2299 03:30:01,960 --> 03:30:10,280 centered around along intersections to to create a node of commercial and mixed 2300 03:30:10,280 --> 03:30:16,200 use activity so so here is the map that they that they have proposed this this 2301 03:30:16,200 --> 03:30:22,520 gray line is the study boundary so you could see it took in a lot of land the 2302 03:30:22,520 --> 03:30:28,120 subject site is in red I drew that so it's probably not to scale and then and 2303 03:30:28,120 --> 03:30:33,200 then the yellows the yellow lines are the proposed streets and and just for for a 2304 03:30:33,200 --> 03:30:40,680 discussion point the subject property here is Hartley field the the the study 2305 03:30:40,680 --> 03:30:44,880 indicates that the best placement for for this East West connection would be to 2306 03:30:44,880 --> 03:30:51,760 align Hartley field and bisect this property extending beyond 428 and then 2307 03:30:51,760 --> 03:30:59,800 and then tying in to the West this would be an arterial and and it would improve 2308 03:30:59,800 --> 03:31:06,200 the mobility of the area we also looked at water and sewer there are 12 inch 2309 03:31:06,200 --> 03:31:11,200 water and water lines to the north and south of the property if they if if it 2310 03:31:11,200 --> 03:31:16,760 was approved and they did move forward with development that one of those lines 2311 03:31:16,760 --> 03:31:19,880 the north or the south would have to be extended across the frontage of the 2312 03:31:19,880 --> 03:31:25,360 site so that would be up to the applicant sewer extensions there is 2313 03:31:25,360 --> 03:31:28,800 sewer to the south that would have to be extended across the property and a lift 2314 03:31:28,800 --> 03:31:35,880 station would be required there we also talked to Denton ISD about about this 2315 03:31:35,880 --> 03:31:41,520 proposal and based upon their formula there is adequate capacity within those 2316 03:31:41,520 --> 03:31:46,040 schools that are within the attendance boundary of this property currently they 2317 03:31:46,040 --> 03:31:50,360 have adequate capacity and then with any development there is parkland 2318 03:31:50,360 --> 03:31:55,840 dedication fees paid at platting and then a park development fee paid with with 2319 03:31:55,840 --> 03:32:01,200 each building permit so they would contribute to our park system we also 2320 03:32:01,200 --> 03:32:06,440 looked at the consideration of character and land use so this is a rural area and 2321 03:32:06,440 --> 03:32:12,640 so but when you look around the entire site you see that this staged development 2322 03:32:12,640 --> 03:32:17,440 that that is coming forward and these cases that are coming forward are moving 2323 03:32:17,440 --> 03:32:22,920 down our arterials and and they're coming to that urban periphery and so so 2324 03:32:22,920 --> 03:32:27,640 development on the in these locations may be appropriate and especially 2325 03:32:27,640 --> 03:32:33,200 something like NR4 where the uses are our single-family residential uses which 2326 03:32:33,200 --> 03:32:36,720 are consistent with a lot of the the uses we see out there so it wouldn't 2327 03:32:36,720 --> 03:32:41,560 introduce any any new uses that may be incompatible with those those those 2328 03:32:41,560 --> 03:32:47,640 residents however there are two uses within NR4 we felt weren't compatible 2329 03:32:47,640 --> 03:32:52,240 and those were duplexes in townhomes we felt like those were just adding just a 2330 03:32:52,240 --> 03:32:55,720 new type of residential development that really isn't something that maybe we 2331 03:32:55,720 --> 03:33:00,240 want to see in this area so if you recommend approval of this staff staff 2332 03:33:00,240 --> 03:33:05,880 recommends that an overlay that restricts the duplexes in townhomes to 2333 03:33:05,880 --> 03:33:08,800 really make this to really ensure that this would be a single-family 2334 03:33:08,800 --> 03:33:14,160 development notification was sent out this is a pretty prominent part of our 2335 03:33:14,160 --> 03:33:20,080 city and so we've received quite a few letters three of those letters are 2336 03:33:20,080 --> 03:33:25,280 within that 200 foot boundary we we have 20 additional that were outside of that 2337 03:33:25,280 --> 03:33:29,440 20 foot boundary or 200 foot boundary but you should have all of those letters 2338 03:33:29,440 --> 03:33:33,880 and I know I gave you all a bunch tonight a lot of reading but but those 2339 03:33:33,880 --> 03:33:39,960 opposition did represent 18% of the land area so based upon the criteria for 2340 03:33:39,960 --> 03:33:45,920 approval the overall goals of didn't plan 2030 and our analysis of the site 2341 03:33:45,920 --> 03:33:51,840 we recommend approval of the K of the of the in our four zoning district with the 2342 03:33:51,840 --> 03:33:57,000 condition that duplexes and townhomes not be permitted and I'll stand for any 2343 03:33:57,000 --> 03:34:00,240 questions and the applicant is here thank you we do have some questions 2344 03:34:00,240 --> 03:34:06,320 Commissioner Pernetta yeah just a few questions so that area just to the I 2345 03:34:06,320 --> 03:34:11,400 guess the southeast of that Hartley and everything that's ETJ right so that's 2346 03:34:11,400 --> 03:34:17,160 not zoned correct yes sir and and above that all the striped area that's the already 2347 03:34:17,160 --> 03:34:23,320 five axis just pull placeholder right now is with all that being placeholder 2348 03:34:23,320 --> 03:34:30,440 can you refresh my memory why did we zone that strip that kind of green strip 2349 03:34:30,440 --> 03:34:36,520 like it's on what I'm looking at as already five and rather than just leave 2350 03:34:36,520 --> 03:34:42,120 that as a placeholder that was annexed earlier it was a part of a much earlier 2351 03:34:42,120 --> 03:34:48,600 annexation and so it did receive a zoning district with the it was probably 2352 03:34:48,600 --> 03:34:55,440 with the 2002 citywide rezoning so because of because it was an it they 2353 03:34:55,440 --> 03:34:59,600 were annexed at different times okay and we're talking about the future land use 2354 03:34:59,600 --> 03:35:03,640 you know looking at what's going to be I don't want to talk about what's what's 2355 03:35:03,640 --> 03:35:08,920 riding along you know what Sherman becomes because I think in the work 2356 03:35:08,920 --> 03:35:12,040 session we discussed the need for probably some infrastructure and some 2357 03:35:12,040 --> 03:35:17,560 shops and things like that as far as the rest of the striped area the already five 2358 03:35:17,560 --> 03:35:24,320 x with the stuff that would be I guess to the to the east of it what is the what 2359 03:35:24,320 --> 03:35:31,680 is the ideal land use for that zoning for the already 5x zoning yeah because 2360 03:35:31,680 --> 03:35:38,080 because right now what we're saying is along Sherman it is currently zoned already 2361 03:35:38,080 --> 03:35:45,960 five we would be moving this to you know to NR for would we be looking for things 2362 03:35:45,960 --> 03:35:51,960 just inside that to be in our for or are we looking for less density what do we 2363 03:35:51,960 --> 03:35:58,600 know I think as as as property owners approach us we will look at each site 2364 03:35:58,600 --> 03:36:03,960 on it on a case-by-case basis and do an analysis to make sure that that criteria 2365 03:36:03,960 --> 03:36:09,960 approval would be would be well just to analyze in relationship to that criteria 2366 03:36:09,960 --> 03:36:14,640 for approval it is also something that as as we move forward and as we continue 2367 03:36:14,640 --> 03:36:20,120 to plan and grow and and look at our vision for a city you know we'll we'll 2368 03:36:20,120 --> 03:36:24,960 have to we'll have to look at that as as we move forward what we wanted to do in 2369 03:36:24,960 --> 03:36:29,720 particularly with transportation is to look and see how we can can help the 2370 03:36:29,720 --> 03:36:34,880 mobility of the area because I know that is a big cause for concern there's 2371 03:36:34,880 --> 03:36:40,520 there's there's not a lot of a lot of connectivity and so I don't have an 2372 03:36:40,520 --> 03:36:44,000 answer for what we envision there right now other than to look at that future 2373 03:36:44,000 --> 03:36:48,480 land use and if someone came forward with a with a rezoning request to look 2374 03:36:48,480 --> 03:36:52,640 at that case really hard and make sure that it met any criteria that we have 2375 03:36:52,640 --> 03:36:56,640 within the development code yeah and that's kind of what I was concerned with 2376 03:36:56,640 --> 03:37:02,840 because I it feels like if we make this you know in our for we would be kind of 2377 03:37:02,840 --> 03:37:06,640 laying the groundwork for a lot more of it to be along that and I just wanted to 2378 03:37:06,640 --> 03:37:10,600 make sure that we weren't going to be moving away from what the vision would 2379 03:37:10,600 --> 03:37:15,720 be by doing this well look at everyone individually okay thank you 2380 03:37:15,720 --> 03:37:21,760 Christopher back thank you chair thanks Julie can you go back to the concept 2381 03:37:21,760 --> 03:37:28,880 plan sure and if you could and this may be more something that the developer or 2382 03:37:28,880 --> 03:37:34,960 the applicant described but can you the green and blue area okay that's green 2383 03:37:34,960 --> 03:37:41,320 area and drainage what's that orange area they will have to I can't read it 2384 03:37:41,320 --> 03:37:49,200 very well they do have these are these are a variety of lot sizes okay but but 2385 03:37:49,200 --> 03:37:54,760 it it's not you know this isn't so this was just conceptual and this was drawn 2386 03:37:54,760 --> 03:37:59,800 before we informed them that there would probably be an arterial going through 2387 03:37:59,800 --> 03:38:04,720 there okay their site well then I'll wait till I'm trying to pick his brain in all 2388 03:38:04,720 --> 03:38:13,920 right thank you commissioner Sanchez when we talk about RD five that's a 2389 03:38:13,920 --> 03:38:18,360 holding position right as I understand it I'm sorry when you it's a holding 2390 03:38:18,360 --> 03:38:21,920 position it's when you when you bring something into the city then you put it 2391 03:38:21,920 --> 03:38:26,760 RD five and basically hold it there until some request is made well we have 2392 03:38:26,760 --> 03:38:31,400 really two parallel tracks to RD five there is we actually have a zoning 2393 03:38:31,400 --> 03:38:35,120 district RD five and that's that green you see right there so that is their 2394 03:38:35,120 --> 03:38:40,120 zoning RD five X you're correct it is that place holding it follows the rules 2395 03:38:40,120 --> 03:38:46,800 of RD five but yes they're the same thing but slightly different okay so 2396 03:38:46,800 --> 03:38:53,280 because I just wanted some if they if you look at it then I guess I was just 2397 03:38:53,280 --> 03:38:58,800 trying to figure out that when you change it from Marty five to two in our 2398 03:38:58,800 --> 03:39:07,080 four it goes from basically one acre per one structure per acre to four structures 2399 03:39:07,080 --> 03:39:12,520 per acre right it doesn't matter if it's an arty if it's an arty five in or an 2400 03:39:12,520 --> 03:39:17,440 arty five X right an arty five in arty five X the minimum lot size is five 2401 03:39:17,440 --> 03:39:26,320 acres and then it goes to one acre four per one okay okay so that's so they're 2402 03:39:26,320 --> 03:39:32,160 basically the same thing as far as number of structures right I mean already 2403 03:39:32,160 --> 03:39:37,480 five yes sir I mean already five and already five X yes sir okay and we talk 2404 03:39:37,480 --> 03:39:43,760 about that being at one time it's rural it was a rural district or it's 2405 03:39:43,760 --> 03:39:48,200 considered rural district outside 288 but that was because during the 2030 2406 03:39:48,200 --> 03:39:53,720 plan it wasn't it was kind of considered that there was going to be a whole lot 2407 03:39:53,720 --> 03:39:58,480 of development up there right so that is that why it's pretty much considered the 2408 03:39:58,480 --> 03:40:02,880 didn't plan really wanted to see staged growth within the city and so they 2409 03:40:02,880 --> 03:40:11,440 really wanted the interior to fill up and then to move out and so so comp plans 2410 03:40:11,440 --> 03:40:15,480 or should be updated every five years so we're actually coming up we should we 2411 03:40:15,480 --> 03:40:21,820 should be updating it so um we have grown a lot faster than I think we 2412 03:40:21,820 --> 03:40:26,240 probably anticipated so we really have filled up a lot of those a lot of those 2413 03:40:26,240 --> 03:40:31,040 especially larger tracks within the city in order to get those those 2414 03:40:31,040 --> 03:40:35,000 subdivisions those larger residential subdivisions so now we're really 2415 03:40:35,000 --> 03:40:42,560 starting to see that development push out to those to those northern areas it 2416 03:40:42,560 --> 03:40:47,200 was not anticipated all this growth was an anticipated and therefore you know a 2417 03:40:47,200 --> 03:40:52,280 lot of people are being shocked especially in North Denton is what the 2418 03:40:52,280 --> 03:40:55,840 growth in order then I used to live in North Denton I mean for years nothing 2419 03:40:55,840 --> 03:41:01,960 was happening there and all of a sudden that growth is just blown up when I 2420 03:41:01,960 --> 03:41:05,920 started here five years ago they was like oh that's never and now everything 2421 03:41:05,920 --> 03:41:10,280 was in the south and I think a lot of people waking up and saying what what's 2422 03:41:10,280 --> 03:41:14,680 happening here but it's just the growth that's that wasn't anticipated and I 2423 03:41:14,680 --> 03:41:18,640 just wanted to mention that is that basically it wasn't even in the 2030 2424 03:41:18,640 --> 03:41:22,440 plan it wasn't anticipated that was gonna happen and now you're looking at 2425 03:41:22,440 --> 03:41:26,920 you're having to go back and look at all these roads mm-hmm that we weren't even 2426 03:41:26,920 --> 03:41:29,880 accounting that we weren't even accounted for or people were thinking 2427 03:41:29,880 --> 03:41:35,680 well we don't have to worry about that but now it has to be considered 2428 03:41:35,680 --> 03:41:42,960 mr. Beck thank you chair Julie let me put you in a spot here a little bit okay 2429 03:41:42,960 --> 03:41:48,360 would it be safe to say that the future land use map our concept plan is more of 2430 03:41:48,360 --> 03:41:55,200 a concept any kind of legal tool of any kind it's a policy document it's a 2431 03:41:55,200 --> 03:42:01,920 guiding document for us to look at as to guide our decisions so you it's it's 2432 03:42:01,920 --> 03:42:06,160 different than zoning and zoning is the law zoning is how you develop so it is 2433 03:42:06,160 --> 03:42:11,640 that policy document now our zoning should reflect what our vision is within 2434 03:42:11,640 --> 03:42:15,720 the comprehensive plan the debt and development code allows us to look a 2435 03:42:15,720 --> 03:42:23,520 little more broadly and and not just not be have a myopic view of the future land 2436 03:42:23,520 --> 03:42:31,120 use map but also look at other criteria if we if we feel that a case is meets 2437 03:42:31,120 --> 03:42:37,560 that additional criteria so you're right it is not the law like zoning is it is 2438 03:42:37,560 --> 03:42:44,280 that policy guiding document no other questions for you Julie thank you this 2439 03:42:44,280 --> 03:42:48,440 is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak can do so we just asked that you 2440 03:42:48,440 --> 03:42:53,600 fill out one of these blue cards to do that and we'll add you to the queue but 2441 03:42:53,600 --> 03:42:59,680 first to present will be the applicant Lee Allison Lee as you know you have up 2442 03:42:59,680 --> 03:43:05,680 to 20 minutes since we have more than one speaker listed here I may take 20 2443 03:43:05,680 --> 03:43:09,360 minutes just trying to figure out how to get my slideshow on here this needs a 2444 03:43:09,360 --> 03:43:13,920 little help and then for you to state your name and address for the record 2445 03:43:13,920 --> 03:43:35,200 I will do thank you there you go sir right there there we go I'm learning 2446 03:43:35,200 --> 03:43:39,200 that's faster than last time good evening I'm Lee Allison with Allison 2447 03:43:39,200 --> 03:43:45,520 engineering group with this with me this evening or Todd price John Heilman and 2448 03:43:45,520 --> 03:43:51,480 Rick Rushton the applicants the the developers and also Schaefer Harris and 2449 03:43:51,480 --> 03:43:56,120 Sue Allison from our office as usual staff has done made an excellent 2450 03:43:56,120 --> 03:43:59,400 presentation and we're just going to kind of jump in to try and supplement 2451 03:43:59,400 --> 03:44:04,040 what they've done not try and repeat I hope and save a lot of time and not use 2452 03:44:04,040 --> 03:44:11,440 those 20 minutes there were a number of responses turned in you have them in 2453 03:44:11,440 --> 03:44:16,040 your packet in the forms of emails and forms well we did as best we could we 2454 03:44:16,040 --> 03:44:20,160 looked at the address we tried to see which piece of property they were 2455 03:44:20,160 --> 03:44:24,840 representing and that they might own one of the nearby properties and live in a 2456 03:44:24,840 --> 03:44:29,400 different place but if not we use the address 11 of the responses had no 2457 03:44:29,400 --> 03:44:32,760 address so we couldn't get those but that's a scattering of where the 2458 03:44:32,760 --> 03:44:38,920 responses came from throughout the area summary of them we we counted 32 2459 03:44:38,920 --> 03:44:43,320 responses some of those responses might have come from the same address two 2460 03:44:43,320 --> 03:44:48,000 people from the same address separate responses 21 of those associated with 2461 03:44:48,000 --> 03:44:53,000 traffic 18 with an I call urbanization in other words the city of didn't growing 2462 03:44:53,000 --> 03:44:56,840 that's what cities do otherwise if you're not going to grow your didn't 2463 03:44:56,840 --> 03:45:02,720 County infrastructure needs were for drainage to there was an adjoining pond 2464 03:45:02,720 --> 03:45:06,440 I'm talking about the one in the south eastern part of the property we'll talk 2465 03:45:06,440 --> 03:45:10,280 more detail later someone had a concern with the duplexes somebody mentioned 2466 03:45:10,280 --> 03:45:15,040 crime and density somebody thought we're getting a DAX abatement need a stoplight 2467 03:45:15,040 --> 03:45:19,480 at hardly field road green areas somehow they got thinking we're looking at 800 2468 03:45:19,480 --> 03:45:24,880 homes not 368 in the future land use plan altogether there were 29 that were 2469 03:45:24,880 --> 03:45:29,520 negative or I would label them opposed to were actually in favor and one was 2470 03:45:29,520 --> 03:45:35,800 neutral we tried to address them the traffic there is a master thoroughfare 2471 03:45:35,800 --> 03:45:40,360 plan we started out with one master thoroughfare plan years ago we had 2472 03:45:40,360 --> 03:45:44,320 another meeting with staff months ago and had one set of ideas and then staff 2473 03:45:44,320 --> 03:45:49,920 initiated their own thoroughfare study and now we've got another one we're 2474 03:45:49,920 --> 03:45:54,440 working on so the city's updated it we've met with the city and when we do 2475 03:45:54,440 --> 03:45:59,360 get into this we will prepare a detailed traffic impact analysis that that fine 2476 03:45:59,360 --> 03:46:04,080 tunes our development to mesh in with what the city is already done 2477 03:46:04,080 --> 03:46:08,600 urbanization that's abuse municipal responsibility there's due processes 2478 03:46:08,600 --> 03:46:13,600 associated with it long-term planning 2030 plans plans that need to be 2479 03:46:13,600 --> 03:46:19,400 updated today regarding what's happening master planning then we get into the 2480 03:46:19,400 --> 03:46:23,280 zoning planning and building permits neighborhood meetings and public hearings 2481 03:46:23,280 --> 03:46:28,720 this is where we are today as far as infrastructure following the city's 2482 03:46:28,720 --> 03:46:33,440 master planning process to accommodate growth and we will certainly contribute 2483 03:46:33,440 --> 03:46:38,160 our proportional share of that CCN that's a certificate of convenience and 2484 03:46:38,160 --> 03:46:44,760 necessity it's not just the city limits the city has a responsibility to provide 2485 03:46:44,760 --> 03:46:49,640 water and sewer service within what's called their CCN and that goes almost 2486 03:46:49,640 --> 03:46:55,820 up to 455 to the north for example for water and wastewater it's shared with 2487 03:46:55,820 --> 03:46:59,280 Bolivar Water Supply Corporation and they have some for the electric 2488 03:46:59,280 --> 03:47:03,560 department as well it's not near as big but they've got responsibilities for 2489 03:47:03,560 --> 03:47:09,320 that the adjoining pond to the southeast the Domsons we're working directly with 2490 03:47:09,320 --> 03:47:14,760 them too because that pod actually straddles the property line and we're 2491 03:47:14,760 --> 03:47:18,360 working with them in any design efforts that will go there but we haven't gotten 2492 03:47:18,360 --> 03:47:23,040 to design yet drainage there was two comments about drainage one of those 2493 03:47:23,040 --> 03:47:27,120 sites actually is on higher ground about 15 feet or so higher than ours so we're 2494 03:47:27,120 --> 03:47:32,400 not going to be draining on them another was concerned with pollution as you're 2495 03:47:32,400 --> 03:47:37,160 aware we have detention requirements and with that comes I swim water quality 2496 03:47:37,160 --> 03:47:42,920 provisions as well so that'll be addressed as we go along duplexes will 2497 03:47:42,920 --> 03:47:47,480 restrict with the overlay crime and density I said master plan that's really 2498 03:47:47,480 --> 03:47:54,520 general government master planning for police fire number of policemen needed 2499 03:47:54,520 --> 03:48:00,000 location of police stations patrols etc that's really beyond our capabilities 2500 03:48:00,000 --> 03:48:05,120 tax abatement there's not any to be clear stoplight at Harley-Field Road 2501 03:48:05,120 --> 03:48:08,320 that will be addressed with the master thoroughfare plan I'm not trying to 2502 03:48:08,320 --> 03:48:11,440 imply there's one included in there that'll just be addressed at that and 2503 03:48:11,440 --> 03:48:16,800 there's other ways to manage that traffic through there green areas yes 2504 03:48:16,800 --> 03:48:23,160 green areas are needed and I think it's good to our spot applications but also 2505 03:48:23,160 --> 03:48:27,080 as you'll see on another exhibit the massive floodplain just north of us 2506 03:48:27,080 --> 03:48:33,240 there's great opportunities for green spaces in the city 800 homes 368 the 2507 03:48:33,240 --> 03:48:38,600 maximum future land use plan it primarily is a placeholder when this area 2508 03:48:38,600 --> 03:48:42,840 was that strip was annexed and zone is the already five the already five was the 2509 03:48:42,840 --> 03:48:47,680 old axe which ag which was the old placeholder and now it's just coming in 2510 03:48:47,680 --> 03:48:52,440 as already 5x to make sure it's known as a placeholder some of our features 2511 03:48:52,440 --> 03:48:56,000 we're gonna include perimeter fence along the arterials particularly Sherman 2512 03:48:56,000 --> 03:49:00,260 Drive that's not required by the code it'll be a common fence with 2513 03:49:00,260 --> 03:49:05,520 architectural features don't want to say it's gonna be a monolithic masonry wall 2514 03:49:05,520 --> 03:49:09,040 but it'll be a nice architectural fence it's not going to be a typical wood 2515 03:49:09,040 --> 03:49:14,160 privacy fence we don't want it open to the backyards and we want it installed 2516 03:49:14,160 --> 03:49:17,600 with phase development not by homeowners so instead of getting built as each 2517 03:49:17,600 --> 03:49:20,720 house gets get built it'll be constructed with the sections and it'll 2518 03:49:20,720 --> 03:49:25,480 be HOA maintained if need be this is something we could add to the overlay 2519 03:49:25,480 --> 03:49:30,120 restrictions amenity centers there'll be a recreation area with meeting rooms 2520 03:49:30,120 --> 03:49:35,560 swimming pool outdoor sports court and we're proposing a one acre minimum we've 2521 03:49:35,560 --> 03:49:40,360 probably got closer to one and a half or two total in our development this helps 2522 03:49:40,360 --> 03:49:49,300 I say helps her we've heard some concern about entry-level housing and the size 2523 03:49:49,300 --> 03:49:52,920 of the lots well what keeps it from being entry-level housing is when you 2524 03:49:52,920 --> 03:49:56,720 add amenity centers and you add perimeter walls etc that drives the price 2525 03:49:56,720 --> 03:50:02,040 a lot up and if you're probably aware typically your market home values four 2526 03:50:02,040 --> 03:50:06,000 to five times what the lot cost is so as you drive the lot cost up you're driving 2527 03:50:06,000 --> 03:50:10,120 the home price up which gets you out of the entry-level housing market so this 2528 03:50:10,120 --> 03:50:16,420 is not an entry-level development detention ponds if needed we like to 2529 03:50:16,420 --> 03:50:21,240 make those multifunctional I like to put a basketball court in the bottom or a 2530 03:50:21,240 --> 03:50:27,080 picnic pavilion when an HOA can use its detention pond for something other than 2531 03:50:27,080 --> 03:50:33,200 utilitarian purposes they're more likely to take care of it and look after it and 2532 03:50:33,200 --> 03:50:38,240 be sensitive to it we like to put some landscape trees in there and we allow 2533 03:50:38,240 --> 03:50:42,600 for the volume of the trees for the volume of the pond the existing pond in 2534 03:50:42,600 --> 03:50:45,540 the southeast corner we're going to design joint with a neighbor it's a 2535 03:50:45,540 --> 03:50:50,200 great area for picnic park we'll do some detention there could be fishing and it 2536 03:50:50,200 --> 03:50:56,080 also acts as a buffer to the existing developments to the south and east of us 2537 03:50:56,080 --> 03:51:00,760 we've had some meetings with other neighbors one was a buddy and Bessie Lou 2538 03:51:00,760 --> 03:51:05,020 Dobson they're the owners of that pond to the southeast working with the design 2539 03:51:05,020 --> 03:51:07,520 on them and I believe they're in favor of this 2540 03:51:07,520 --> 03:51:12,480 Susan Smith was very gracious to meet with us she has the property to the 2541 03:51:12,480 --> 03:51:17,560 north beautiful stock tanks on there concerned about what was coming over 2542 03:51:17,560 --> 03:51:21,280 there in the way of drainage and we have committed we met with her and her 2543 03:51:21,280 --> 03:51:26,440 engineer we have committed to involve them in our design and analysis 2544 03:51:26,440 --> 03:51:31,560 particularly related to drainage from day one with a preliminary plant Mrs. 2545 03:51:31,560 --> 03:51:35,080 Smith is not in favor of this project and we haven't won her over and I don't 2546 03:51:35,080 --> 03:51:38,800 want to sit here and speak for her and say that because we've met her that that 2547 03:51:38,800 --> 03:51:43,000 we've changed her thoughts on anything another person we've met with is Ron 2548 03:51:43,000 --> 03:51:50,200 Carter he's not expressed in writing favor war opposition but he's a major 2549 03:51:50,200 --> 03:51:54,720 landowner to the east of us and we want to coordinate with him as far as 2550 03:51:54,720 --> 03:51:59,160 connectivity and planning drainage and other things towards that property and 2551 03:51:59,160 --> 03:52:04,160 we will with other property owners as well but those were the major ones this 2552 03:52:04,160 --> 03:52:09,680 is kind of what's going on in the area I think it's interesting the bright green 2553 03:52:09,680 --> 03:52:15,480 is our agave ranch DSD has bought this property across from us no commitments 2554 03:52:15,480 --> 03:52:21,800 to what's going there this area was recently rezoned in our six here is the 2555 03:52:21,800 --> 03:52:29,600 tech center the stadium in the water park right here this dark space is 2556 03:52:29,600 --> 03:52:33,920 actually owned by the city of Denton it is a booster pump station at one time 2557 03:52:33,920 --> 03:52:39,120 when Lake Ray Roberts was constructed and the main line was run down 428 it 2558 03:52:39,120 --> 03:52:43,120 was going to be a low-pressure line and there's be a booster pump here instead 2559 03:52:43,120 --> 03:52:47,560 they made high pressure from the lake so that's fully pressurized line and that's 2560 03:52:47,560 --> 03:52:51,280 not needed as a booster pump but I have no idea what the plans for it might be 2561 03:52:51,280 --> 03:52:57,880 at this time and over here in this dark area pardon me is land that the city 2562 03:52:57,880 --> 03:53:01,440 purchased for the purpose of developing a wastewater treatment plant to serve 2563 03:53:01,440 --> 03:53:05,680 this area as it develops long term in the future so even though it was owned 2564 03:53:05,680 --> 03:53:10,760 RDX it's certainly not anticipated this area will remain on septic systems as 2565 03:53:10,760 --> 03:53:14,720 you would with rural residential development what triggered a lot of this 2566 03:53:14,720 --> 03:53:22,120 was developments here in the in the 90s before the bust came would be bringing 2567 03:53:22,120 --> 03:53:26,880 wastewater this direction over to this plant when it comes to some of the 2568 03:53:26,880 --> 03:53:31,280 commercial activities there's commercial land already zoned here but it hasn't 2569 03:53:31,280 --> 03:53:35,880 developed because the lack of demand commercial areas here you can find some 2570 03:53:35,880 --> 03:53:41,560 commercial I believe over along King Row McKinney Street over to where 77 2571 03:53:41,560 --> 03:53:46,000 interlinks sex 288 and there's a large amount of commercial available at the 2572 03:53:46,000 --> 03:53:50,560 corner loop 288 and 35 that hasn't developed yet one of the primary 2573 03:53:50,560 --> 03:53:54,600 obstacles of developing to the north north of the loop has been the lack of 2574 03:53:54,600 --> 03:53:58,880 water and wastewater particularly wastewater it's going to take 2575 03:53:58,880 --> 03:54:06,480 developments to come along to accomplish this these dots on here are what's online 2576 03:54:06,480 --> 03:54:11,560 now is the master thoroughfare plan the red dots are primary arterials the green 2577 03:54:11,560 --> 03:54:17,000 dots are secondary and the black dots are collectors and this blue hatched area 2578 03:54:17,000 --> 03:54:22,640 along here is floodplain we've worked some alternative VSAs together 2579 03:54:22,640 --> 03:54:29,640 environmentally sensitive areas this is a great opportunity for the green spaces 2580 03:54:29,640 --> 03:54:33,800 the green belts park trails and bike trails that bring some connectivity 2581 03:54:33,800 --> 03:54:37,920 across the city so that's what's going on around us as we look at this in a 2582 03:54:37,920 --> 03:54:43,520 holistic picture and not just an individual site per the city's thoroughfare 2583 03:54:43,520 --> 03:54:49,760 plan in our meetings with with staff we've determined at that meeting that 2584 03:54:49,760 --> 03:54:54,040 these two blue lines would be where the arterials generally come through our 2585 03:54:54,040 --> 03:55:00,480 site the green area is where our amenity center would be as a result of this 2586 03:55:00,480 --> 03:55:06,520 we've got a new concept plan it's not that much different than the one you saw 2587 03:55:06,520 --> 03:55:10,840 earlier that staff was presenting the differences in the lots you saw were the 2588 03:55:10,840 --> 03:55:16,440 lighter gray were the 50-foot minimum the darker gray were the 60-foot 2589 03:55:16,440 --> 03:55:22,240 minimums and the odd color orange ones were larger odd shaped lots that were 2590 03:55:22,240 --> 03:55:28,280 not rectangular but but worked very well in there here we've got we didn't show 2591 03:55:28,280 --> 03:55:33,000 it extending out to the east but here we have the arterial road coming through in 2592 03:55:33,000 --> 03:55:36,720 discussions with staff we're looking at a roundabout that could also be used as 2593 03:55:36,720 --> 03:55:40,720 an entry feature and work with our amenity center this is the pond of the 2594 03:55:40,720 --> 03:55:45,600 southeast I was discussing where we'll work with the Dobson's on it Mrs. Smith's 2595 03:55:45,600 --> 03:55:51,520 property up here a lot of this area I'd say this area in general drains to her 2596 03:55:51,520 --> 03:55:55,920 ponds so she's certainly concerned about keeping those full and about having 2597 03:55:55,920 --> 03:56:00,440 quality water in there we've talked with staff and they're going to be visiting 2598 03:56:00,440 --> 03:56:05,480 with text out about putting a traffic circle or roundabout at this point rather 2599 03:56:05,480 --> 03:56:11,080 be a roundabout or a signal this arterials it extends to the west and as 2600 03:56:11,080 --> 03:56:15,320 it comes back to Hartley Field Road that might be a better location for a light 2601 03:56:15,320 --> 03:56:18,520 than at Hartley Field Road so this area would empty out at this location 2602 03:56:18,520 --> 03:56:22,160 primarily instead of these areas to the south because of the offsetting 2603 03:56:22,160 --> 03:56:28,280 intersections so what and when I say work in progress we're still going to 2604 03:56:28,280 --> 03:56:31,000 have to sit down and meet with the city and see what's going on with the 2605 03:56:31,000 --> 03:56:35,960 thoroughfare plan we're going to have to work with mr. Dobson on this mr. Carter 2606 03:56:35,960 --> 03:56:40,520 on how we connect with his property here these property owners to see about these 2607 03:56:40,520 --> 03:56:47,160 connectivity roads and of course with mrs. Smith on on how the you know we're 2608 03:56:47,160 --> 03:56:51,520 not going to build the arterial day one and this will be our first phase this 2609 03:56:51,520 --> 03:56:57,700 northern section but putting our wall up here taking the drainage across and we 2610 03:56:57,700 --> 03:57:01,280 certainly meet city criteria but we want to work with her on how we get that water 2611 03:57:01,280 --> 03:57:06,960 over to her property or do something else with it it's gonna be a ranch style 2612 03:57:06,960 --> 03:57:12,360 amenity center existing pond is or proposed detention future are two 2613 03:57:12,360 --> 03:57:17,560 arterials two text on drives in our four zoning for 368 streets for future 2614 03:57:17,560 --> 03:57:23,320 connectivity to the east 376 lots are shown by the way again we hadn't 2615 03:57:23,320 --> 03:57:28,760 fine-tuned this yet it's in progress but there's only going to be 368 2616 03:57:28,760 --> 03:57:33,680 detentions to be determined we're still working on that the green areas are 2617 03:57:33,680 --> 03:57:38,480 pocket amenity areas in addition to the main one the home builder that's looking 2618 03:57:38,480 --> 03:57:44,160 at this right now is Kay Hovani and homes that's an example of one of their 2619 03:57:44,160 --> 03:57:50,560 homes that one's around 3,000 square feet and there's another one at about 2600 I 2620 03:57:50,560 --> 03:57:55,480 think I can't read that well and I'll be glad to respond to any questions at this 2621 03:57:55,480 --> 03:57:58,720 time thank you for your presentation we have a couple questions 2622 03:57:58,720 --> 03:58:07,040 mr. pernetta yeah actually this is more for Julie he mentioned the area just 2623 03:58:07,040 --> 03:58:14,120 below where the school where the district is purchased property was zoned 2624 03:58:14,120 --> 03:58:19,640 in nr6 did you say that was nr6 with an overlay it does overlay to restrict the 2625 03:58:19,640 --> 03:58:25,600 density like like 4.6 somewhere around there it's a little over four dwelling 2626 03:58:25,600 --> 03:58:30,160 units per acre okay thank you that's that's the clarification 2627 03:58:30,160 --> 03:58:36,640 Christian back thank you chair thanks Lee for your presentation guys usually put 2628 03:58:36,640 --> 03:58:40,160 a lot of thought a lot of work into these things I appreciate that and I 2629 03:58:40,160 --> 03:58:42,880 know we're dealing with a zone change request here but I'm sure a lot of 2630 03:58:42,880 --> 03:58:46,760 people are curious if everything gets approved and moves forward how long are 2631 03:58:46,760 --> 03:58:51,160 you looking at before people are ready to move in to this can you give us a 2632 03:58:51,160 --> 03:58:58,640 rough idea this summer to fall because we got to get all the designs done and 2633 03:58:58,640 --> 03:59:06,520 approved as far and go through the planning process so I would say 18 2634 03:59:06,520 --> 03:59:10,800 months before we're ready to start building homes out there from now 2635 03:59:10,800 --> 03:59:16,760 building building homes yeah it'll take after that another two to three years to 2636 03:59:16,760 --> 03:59:24,880 build that and we're doing this in two phases thank you chair mr. Allison thank 2637 03:59:24,880 --> 03:59:29,000 you you mentioned in your presentation something about adding the perimeter 2638 03:59:29,000 --> 03:59:34,880 fencing to an overlay what did you mean by that staff has recommended overlay 2639 03:59:34,880 --> 03:59:41,720 restriction that will require no duplexes and no single-family attached if 2640 03:59:41,720 --> 03:59:44,880 it was of interest to the Commission because perimeter fences along their 2641 03:59:44,880 --> 03:59:49,440 materials particularly loop 28 and I may need I mean for 28 I may need some help 2642 03:59:49,440 --> 03:59:53,400 Julie but I don't think they're required in the code and we're willing to make 2643 03:59:53,400 --> 03:59:58,640 those a requirement so they would be a consistent and not like we have on loop 2644 03:59:58,640 --> 04:00:02,920 28 now where there's the backside of some privacy fences built individually 2645 04:00:02,920 --> 04:00:07,560 and falling over at different times and to be HOA maintained as well not 2646 04:00:07,560 --> 04:00:20,860 individual and that would be something we could include in an overlay in sub 2647 04:00:20,860 --> 04:00:26,960 chapter 5 there is a residential mixed-use protection overlay and it does 2648 04:00:26,960 --> 04:00:42,720 talk about in screening and landscaping so let me get to that so the applicant 2649 04:00:42,720 --> 04:00:46,880 may consent to the imposition of increased setback landscaping screening 2650 04:00:46,880 --> 04:00:51,440 or buffer requirements allowing the borders of such existing residential 2651 04:00:51,440 --> 04:00:57,880 uses or to the input imposition of additional use or performance based 2652 04:00:57,880 --> 04:01:02,480 restrictions upon the proposed underlying zoning cast classification 2653 04:01:02,480 --> 04:01:11,600 and use designation so that sounds like a yes yes I'd like to add and I might 2654 04:01:11,600 --> 04:01:16,880 have a question for Julie as well and then mr. Beck as far as the upcoming 2655 04:01:16,880 --> 04:01:23,560 zoning that's underway and the mixed-use residential or the mixed-use corridor 2656 04:01:23,560 --> 04:01:28,460 along 428 here's why I need help from Julie my understanding is that's more 2657 04:01:28,460 --> 04:01:32,320 dense than what we're proposing and it still allows single-family residential 2658 04:01:32,320 --> 04:01:38,400 in that so I don't know that that would throw our plans off any really and I 2659 04:01:38,400 --> 04:01:45,320 kind of feel like we waited for staff to complete the traffic study we were ready 2660 04:01:45,320 --> 04:01:49,160 to come last September October and I kind of feel like I'm in that vortex in 2661 04:01:49,160 --> 04:01:52,320 the drain you're kind of waiting for everything to stop spinning and let's 2662 04:01:52,320 --> 04:01:58,040 settle down and get going but appreciate it anything else the only question I 2663 04:01:58,040 --> 04:02:06,480 have for you is there's 92 acres which provides 368 how many acres do you 2664 04:02:06,480 --> 04:02:12,520 anticipate not being developed in terms of pond roads amenity center like what 2665 04:02:12,520 --> 04:02:18,560 the 92 acres what's usable develop oh my goodness when you take the roads and 2666 04:02:18,560 --> 04:02:23,040 everything out I mean might just to be clear I'm trying to understand what the 2667 04:02:23,040 --> 04:02:26,800 lot size is gonna be it's not gonna be quarter acre lots oh no no so I'm trying 2668 04:02:26,800 --> 04:02:32,400 to understand like they're gonna be like six thousand would be the smallest and 2669 04:02:32,400 --> 04:02:36,600 they could be up to eight maybe a couple in there in the ten thousand range 2670 04:02:36,600 --> 04:02:41,440 perfect that's the only questions we have at this point I'm sure I would stay 2671 04:02:41,440 --> 04:02:46,400 close so this so this is a public hearing I do have some cards that will 2672 04:02:46,400 --> 04:02:51,920 go through as just a reminder to both the audience and the Commission audience 2673 04:02:51,920 --> 04:02:54,520 numbers have four minutes to speak at the end of four minutes you'll hear a 2674 04:02:54,520 --> 04:02:59,480 ding we just ask that you wrap up your thoughts pretty promptly after the bell 2675 04:02:59,480 --> 04:03:05,880 and then for the Commission if you have if the audience has questions that are 2676 04:03:05,880 --> 04:03:08,920 needed to be addressed by staff and we just jot those down and have the 2677 04:03:08,920 --> 04:03:14,040 applicant and staff come up at the end instead of going back and forth between 2678 04:03:14,040 --> 04:03:18,600 resident and staff that'd be extremely helpful for the pace of this because we 2679 04:03:18,600 --> 04:03:24,400 have several cards that being said the first card I have is for Sharon Krimmer 2680 04:03:24,400 --> 04:03:30,520 or crimev I don't know Kramer if you just state your name and yes I will 2681 04:03:30,520 --> 04:03:36,360 address all right Sharon Kramer as many of you up there know and my address is 2682 04:03:36,360 --> 04:03:44,160 three five seven four pine trail before eight one one system came in I lived at 2683 04:03:44,160 --> 04:03:50,120 2900 Hartley Field Road is the easiest move I ever made I just changed the 2684 04:03:50,120 --> 04:03:57,360 stationary and stayed in place I am bred and born and raised and reared and 2685 04:03:57,360 --> 04:04:06,280 careered and raised my family in Denton Texas so I've been here 65 years and going 2686 04:04:06,280 --> 04:04:13,240 and I've lived in my now pine trail residents prior Hartley Field Road for 40 2687 04:04:13,240 --> 04:04:19,880 years so I've seen loop 288 come in and adjusted to that and I know that change 2688 04:04:19,880 --> 04:04:25,520 is inevitable I know that growth is inevitable unless you work really hard at 2689 04:04:25,520 --> 04:04:31,120 the end at the gym and never eat as many M&Ms as I do and I know that what you 2690 04:04:31,120 --> 04:04:40,080 guys do all of you guys and is inclusive is often thankless is often done in the 2691 04:04:40,080 --> 04:04:50,720 face of rancor is often done in the face of slick myopic presentations and you 2692 04:04:50,720 --> 04:04:57,760 guard the vision of Denton and I appreciate that you keep in mind that we 2693 04:04:57,760 --> 04:05:04,980 want a livable community that we want a diverse community that we want a vibrant 2694 04:05:04,980 --> 04:05:10,120 community I'm catching my breath not only because I'm speaking in public all 2695 04:05:10,120 --> 04:05:14,920 the 100 years of teaching school happily means I'm used to seeing 25 and 35 2696 04:05:14,920 --> 04:05:20,360 ninth graders and you may get homework at the end of this I don't know in fact I 2697 04:05:20,360 --> 04:05:24,840 do have homework for you to do that is to come out with me some morning and my 2698 04:05:24,840 --> 04:05:29,800 very friendly dog and take a lovely four-mile walk down Hartley Field Road 2699 04:05:29,800 --> 04:05:36,240 Hartley Field Road is a county road it is a blacktop road there's no dividing 2700 04:05:36,240 --> 04:05:41,920 line there is no shoulder there is really very little maintenance and I'm 2701 04:05:41,920 --> 04:05:47,720 catching my breath because my notes that I wrote I'm kind of abandoning when I saw 2702 04:05:47,720 --> 04:05:52,920 the traffic study I thought I wish I'd seen that I couldn't get all the stuff 2703 04:05:52,920 --> 04:05:59,800 to pull up from the city you're gonna have a road emptying a traffic road 2704 04:05:59,800 --> 04:06:07,160 carrying commuters onto Hartley Field Road by the looks of the map it's less 2705 04:06:07,160 --> 04:06:17,640 than 150 feet from my mailbox my mailbox gets hit regularly regularly when I take 2706 04:06:17,640 --> 04:06:20,760 my city trash cans because I pay for city service because they have to go 2707 04:06:20,760 --> 04:06:24,960 down to the Green Belt which is just a mile down Hartley Field Road which didn't 2708 04:06:24,960 --> 04:06:31,320 come up in any of those plans the Green Belt has been expanded north and I didn't 2709 04:06:31,320 --> 04:06:36,080 see Clear Creek Heritage Center mentioned in those plans so come drive 2710 04:06:36,080 --> 04:06:43,160 around with me come see that area Hartley Field Road can't take a city trash 2711 04:06:43,160 --> 04:06:50,760 truck and an oncoming car that's when my dog and I step off into the pasture four 2712 04:06:50,760 --> 04:06:59,160 or five feet growth is inevitable change is inevitable you read my letter I grew 2713 04:06:59,160 --> 04:07:04,440 up at a dinner table hearing my dad who was a developer and a builder and whose 2714 04:07:04,440 --> 04:07:10,320 homes are 60 years old talk to someone who lives in one of them they're still 2715 04:07:10,320 --> 04:07:15,480 standing they're still strong they're still functioning we've all lived through 2716 04:07:15,480 --> 04:07:21,720 Savannah on 380 we've seen what got built I have friends who live there 2717 04:07:21,720 --> 04:07:31,080 there's slapdash and we've also you've seen the paper today we've all seen what 2718 04:07:31,080 --> 04:07:40,200 happens to traffic on 380 428 can't bear the traffic with a light at the loop 2719 04:07:40,200 --> 04:07:44,760 which is a good thing because I had to break for a car running the stop sign 2720 04:07:44,760 --> 04:07:52,120 and I'm done that's okay thanks thank you very much 2721 04:07:52,120 --> 04:08:00,000 next card I have is for miss Susan Smith 2722 04:08:00,000 --> 04:08:09,680 hello and thank you for listening to my comments my name is Susan Smith my 2723 04:08:09,680 --> 04:08:16,400 address is 7736 FM 428 and I'm one of the closest neighbors directly impacted 2724 04:08:16,400 --> 04:08:21,000 by this proposal on the north side and I have several concerns and I think you 2725 04:08:21,000 --> 04:08:24,600 guys have already gotten my sheet where I outlined in it a little bit more 2726 04:08:24,600 --> 04:08:29,520 detail so I'm going to try to go really fast and hit the highlights I too 2727 04:08:29,520 --> 04:08:36,000 understand that Denton must grow but what I'm wondering is why we can't have 2728 04:08:36,000 --> 04:08:41,120 planned growth that incorporates necessary infrastructure to protect our 2729 04:08:41,120 --> 04:08:46,320 safety and why can't we have growth that reflects the plan that Denton has 2730 04:08:46,320 --> 04:08:52,000 already approved and laid out for us in their comprehensive 2030 plan from what 2731 04:08:52,000 --> 04:08:57,640 I'm hearing today I think you guys are abandoning our 2030 plan and I hate to 2732 04:08:57,640 --> 04:09:05,040 see that happen by approving this plan as proposed you're also establishing a 2733 04:09:05,040 --> 04:09:10,360 dangerous precedent for all the growth in the future you've already approved 2734 04:09:10,360 --> 04:09:15,120 high-density housing for Stark farms across the street that's 400 plus homes 2735 04:09:15,120 --> 04:09:23,080 now you're adding another 368 homes plus all the other traffic that's on 428 does 2736 04:09:23,080 --> 04:09:27,640 this not mean that every future development that comes up has this 2737 04:09:27,640 --> 04:09:32,640 precedent to go by and gets approved just because the last one did that's 2738 04:09:32,640 --> 04:09:37,160 what I'm hearing about this plan because of Stark farms is this really what we 2739 04:09:37,160 --> 04:09:44,520 want and it raises a couple of issues the most important being as Sharon so 2740 04:09:44,520 --> 04:09:49,160 succinctly said the insufficient infrastructure for our traffic and 2741 04:09:49,160 --> 04:09:54,360 safety we don't have the current infrastructure you can create you're 2742 04:09:54,360 --> 04:09:59,120 creating a very dangerous situation on what's already a very crowded road it's 2743 04:09:59,120 --> 04:10:04,200 dangerous for all of us that travel it now I can only imagine what it's going to 2744 04:10:04,200 --> 04:10:11,240 be when these other two developments are built out to take a left turn on 428 is 2745 04:10:11,240 --> 04:10:16,140 very hard I understand that you're going to put the traffic light at the loop and 2746 04:10:16,140 --> 04:10:21,120 that's great and a center turn lane but I really think we need a traffic light 2747 04:10:21,120 --> 04:10:25,360 to get cars in and out of this development and that may be what mr. 2748 04:10:25,360 --> 04:10:31,320 Allison said I'm not sure but I would say that that has to be done before the 2749 04:10:31,320 --> 04:10:36,240 development starts I think we need to make those improvements whether it's 2750 04:10:36,240 --> 04:10:41,320 road widening center lane traffic light before you start the development and I 2751 04:10:41,320 --> 04:10:46,660 know Andrew you told me that was happening over on Bonnie Bray the 2752 04:10:46,660 --> 04:10:52,080 traffic study I saw by the city it's going to be an increase of 60% on that 2753 04:10:52,080 --> 04:10:57,640 road so if you could get that done before the development starts I'm also 2754 04:10:57,640 --> 04:11:01,680 very concerned about the character of the development that you're abandoning 2755 04:11:01,680 --> 04:11:09,120 our 2030 plan I don't understand why we have to have this high density in a rural 2756 04:11:09,120 --> 04:11:14,840 area why could we not make a compromise and make some of the lot sizes a little 2757 04:11:14,840 --> 04:11:21,040 larger even 60-foot lots would make a difference and have some open areas and 2758 04:11:21,040 --> 04:11:25,680 some green areas some walking trails something that ties it back to the land 2759 04:11:25,680 --> 04:11:33,400 that's around it our our 2030 plan encourages that and I see us getting 2760 04:11:33,400 --> 04:11:40,320 totally away from that 70% of the houses are 50 foot wide postage stamp lots with 2761 04:11:40,320 --> 04:11:46,000 their 12 feet from wall to wall to the next house this is not consistent with 2762 04:11:46,000 --> 04:11:52,240 our neighborhood or with our 2030 plan so in closing I would really ask you to 2763 04:11:52,240 --> 04:11:57,080 consider where we're going give us our infrastructure before the development 2764 04:11:57,080 --> 04:12:04,440 starts consider larger lot sizes more green space more open space and remember 2765 04:12:04,440 --> 04:12:08,520 that when the development is finished the developers and builders get to leave 2766 04:12:08,520 --> 04:12:14,280 we the people that live there are left with what they've created so let's try to 2767 04:12:14,280 --> 04:12:20,760 make it better you're by this vote determining the future of Denton so I 2768 04:12:20,760 --> 04:12:25,200 really hope you'll consider how you do it because we're all depending on you to 2769 04:12:25,200 --> 04:12:28,680 do that thank you 2770 04:12:36,000 --> 04:13:02,280 thank you mr. Smith the next card I have is mr. Richard Wells thank you no yes 2771 04:13:02,280 --> 04:13:04,920 that's the one thank you very much and if you just state your name and address 2772 04:13:04,920 --> 04:13:09,960 yes Richard Wells I live at 3830 Washington it's an Aubrey address it's 2773 04:13:09,960 --> 04:13:15,720 about four miles north of the loop okay so pretty much part of Denton the 2030 2774 04:13:15,720 --> 04:13:19,360 plan has been let me start by saying I take a more holistic view and I'm kind 2775 04:13:19,360 --> 04:13:23,160 of thinking as far out as I can most of what I've heard today is like next year 2776 04:13:23,160 --> 04:13:27,000 the year after a little bit so some of what I would talk about is is further in 2777 04:13:27,000 --> 04:13:32,400 the future and the 2030 plan says the single most important component of the 2778 04:13:32,400 --> 04:13:36,840 land used element is the future land use map and it serves as a guide for making 2779 04:13:36,840 --> 04:13:41,040 development of rezoning decisions and I don't think the decision to go ahead 2780 04:13:41,040 --> 04:13:46,640 with this is quite in keeping with the 2030 plan it also states in part revise 2781 04:13:46,640 --> 04:13:50,480 zoning districts and procedures for rezoning decisions to require 2782 04:13:50,480 --> 04:13:56,960 consistency with the future land use plan to guide all future development as 2783 04:13:56,960 --> 04:14:01,120 an extension of preferred growth concept so I don't believe that it fits 2784 04:14:01,120 --> 04:14:06,740 that also I do want to talk about transportation because 23 I think you 2785 04:14:06,740 --> 04:14:12,480 said of the letters were concerned with transportation the Denton County 2786 04:14:12,480 --> 04:14:15,920 thoroughfare plan which is partially based on information from tech start 2787 04:14:15,920 --> 04:14:22,520 and the Nash the Council of Governments was adopted in April 18 2017 says that 2788 04:14:22,520 --> 04:14:29,060 2014 study shows that peak traffic in the morning on FM 428 from loop 288 to 2789 04:14:29,060 --> 04:14:37,120 FM 2153 is now at level of service F which means that traffic congestion for 2790 04:14:37,120 --> 04:14:40,680 that roadway is high and the travelers now experience severe delays and travel 2791 04:14:40,680 --> 04:14:49,920 time that's 2014 so that means between loop 288 and 2153 also the study Denton 2792 04:14:49,920 --> 04:14:53,800 County thoroughfare plan recommends completion of the outer loop which if 2793 04:14:53,800 --> 04:14:57,720 you'll look at the top of this up here I think I can point it out to you I'm not 2794 04:14:57,720 --> 04:15:04,000 okay well I'm not sure how to do anyhow that loop is the S you all probably know 2795 04:15:04,000 --> 04:15:07,680 this and this is where I'm kind of thinking about the future one of the 2796 04:15:07,680 --> 04:15:13,160 recommendations is 2035 one is 2040 that will be completed it's a great case 2797 04:15:13,160 --> 04:15:17,600 study if you want to look it up on online it recommends anything from six 2798 04:15:17,600 --> 04:15:26,320 lanes to 16 lanes it comes in at 2153 it goes through all becomes in 2153 it goes 2799 04:15:26,320 --> 04:15:33,200 along Shepherd Road it goes bisects goes along Shepherd Road it goes across the 2800 04:15:33,200 --> 04:15:38,040 green belt and then it goes out mile I'm to catch I 35 in that study the 2801 04:15:38,040 --> 04:15:44,680 Council of Governments is accepted it says that 20 that FM 428 will then have 2802 04:15:44,680 --> 04:15:50,880 to be six lane feeder road from 288 out to this five miles out to the city so 2803 04:15:50,880 --> 04:15:56,360 thinking of the future we got a real traffic problem here also the Denton a 2804 04:15:56,360 --> 04:16:02,440 study says that this is an important bicycle to think about bicycles and 2805 04:16:02,440 --> 04:16:07,320 other forms of transportation in Denton the only Northeast artery for bicyclists 2806 04:16:07,320 --> 04:16:10,920 is 428 I'm not a bicyclist but I see them out there all the time and I think 2807 04:16:10,920 --> 04:16:15,160 this construction is going to be a problem with that too I think that the 2808 04:16:15,160 --> 04:16:22,320 the the staff study and the what came from the developers is nice on the 2809 04:16:22,320 --> 04:16:26,760 figures on how many students will be going to the schools but with that RD 2810 04:16:26,760 --> 04:16:31,080 six zone down there you can probably double it or triple it it also talks 2811 04:16:31,080 --> 04:16:35,720 about traffic you can also probably double that or triple it outside the 2812 04:16:35,720 --> 04:16:43,240 loop a study that Aubrey did said that a normal two-lane road that's not divided 2813 04:16:43,240 --> 04:16:52,560 can handle about 12,000 trips per day we're already way above that so so 428 2814 04:16:52,560 --> 04:16:59,200 cannot handle this that's that's the bottom line on that I'm surprised that 2815 04:16:59,200 --> 04:17:05,160 we're going the city staff talks about a buffer zone well in our four is not a 2816 04:17:05,160 --> 04:17:11,560 buffer zone in our one it might be a buffer zone but to go directly from RD 2817 04:17:11,560 --> 04:17:20,080 five one house per five acres to four houses per acre is a lot different than 2818 04:17:20,080 --> 04:17:23,680 in our one would be thank you 2819 04:17:23,680 --> 04:17:37,880 thank you mr. Wells next we have Gretchen is it a cock for you to state your name 2820 04:17:37,880 --> 04:17:46,360 and address for the record I'm Gretchen I cock and my address is 7617 FM 428 I 2821 04:17:46,360 --> 04:17:53,440 live directly across the street from and I like to say I agree with everything 2822 04:17:53,440 --> 04:17:57,760 she said and the gentleman before me I'm sorry I'm not as prepared and eloquent 2823 04:17:57,760 --> 04:18:03,640 but this is kind of blindsided me I didn't get a notification in the mail 2824 04:18:03,640 --> 04:18:11,420 until about a week ago and I'm a horse trainer I run an equestrian facility so 2825 04:18:11,420 --> 04:18:18,240 agriculture is my way of life and to have that many homes directly across the 2826 04:18:18,240 --> 04:18:29,640 street from me doesn't fit with my dream or picture of my neighborhood that's all 2827 04:18:34,320 --> 04:18:42,520 thank you very much next card we have is Katherine Adams Huff Huff Hutt have you 2828 04:18:42,520 --> 04:18:45,680 to state your name and address the record thank you commissioners thank you 2829 04:18:45,680 --> 04:18:49,400 for the opportunity to speak my name is Katherine Adams Hutt I live at four or 2830 04:18:49,400 --> 04:18:54,360 five six eight elm bottom circle in Aubrey and I want to speak to oppose this 2831 04:18:54,360 --> 04:18:58,360 proposed a change from rural residential to neighborhood residential planning 2832 04:18:58,360 --> 04:19:04,520 going with 92 acre lot 368 houses we've heard this ad nauseam today it's a very 2833 04:19:04,520 --> 04:19:09,760 extensive density obviously we talked about the traffic issues but I urge you 2834 04:19:09,760 --> 04:19:15,280 also not knowing about the Denton plan for 2030 before tonight I admit now that 2835 04:19:15,280 --> 04:19:18,080 you've heard I've heard about it I cannot believe that this is considered 2836 04:19:18,080 --> 04:19:23,480 consistent with that plan this is an agricultural land the plan was for pace 2837 04:19:23,480 --> 04:19:28,000 development this is not pace development it's immense development to say this is 2838 04:19:28,000 --> 04:19:33,000 consistent with the Denton 2030 plan is to suggest that President Trump's style 2839 04:19:33,000 --> 04:19:37,200 being a president is a lot like every other traditional president style it's 2840 04:19:37,200 --> 04:19:43,440 just not true not being judgmental it's just not true I also urge you to think 2841 04:19:43,440 --> 04:19:48,160 about the adverse impact on the intent of this intense suburban development on 2842 04:19:48,160 --> 04:19:54,160 the world nature of this of this area surrounding Aubrey where I live Aubrey 2843 04:19:54,160 --> 04:20:00,000 calls ourselves the horse capital of the world or at least of the country to be 2844 04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:03,440 the horse capital of the country we need horses we need an agricultural 2845 04:20:03,440 --> 04:20:08,560 environment that supports horses and cattle being part of Denton this is part 2846 04:20:08,560 --> 04:20:12,520 of what people look at Denton to be it's rural it's agricultural it's respected 2847 04:20:12,520 --> 04:20:16,400 it's admired this would not be consistent with that approach either I 2848 04:20:16,400 --> 04:20:21,040 breed and raise cutting horses and thoroughbred race horses I love my 2849 04:20:21,040 --> 04:20:25,480 drives through Lexington Kentucky because they're beautiful with pastoral scenes 2850 04:20:25,480 --> 04:20:31,080 nice fences horses and pastures large pastures nice homes modest homes large 2851 04:20:31,080 --> 04:20:36,880 homes even but certainly what we're planning to do in Aubrey and Denton and 2852 04:20:36,880 --> 04:20:42,480 North Denton is to turn Lexington into Plano we're turning Denton into Plano 2853 04:20:42,480 --> 04:20:46,880 and I don't believe that we want to do that I also will tell you that my 2854 04:20:46,880 --> 04:20:51,920 property is in largely a floodplain and a floodway many of the boundaries that I 2855 04:20:51,920 --> 04:20:56,040 see on this slide above me are going right through floodplains and floodways 2856 04:20:56,040 --> 04:20:59,520 those are going to be expensive to build and I can tell you my land is still 2857 04:20:59,520 --> 04:21:03,880 underwater from the floodway released from Ray Roberts to Lewisville today and 2858 04:21:03,880 --> 04:21:08,280 three years ago four years ago I was evacuated by the National Guard this is 2859 04:21:08,280 --> 04:21:13,240 a flooded area we can talk about green belt but when it's flooded it is not 2860 04:21:13,240 --> 04:21:17,280 passable so this is the area you're talking about I I know you know this 2861 04:21:17,280 --> 04:21:21,880 area but I urge you again to walk this area with us as we do every day we love 2862 04:21:21,880 --> 04:21:25,440 this area we love our land we love Denton and thank you very much for your 2863 04:21:25,440 --> 04:21:27,520 time 2864 04:21:27,520 --> 04:21:37,280 I only have one more card here for speaker so if anyone else is wanting to 2865 04:21:37,280 --> 04:21:41,680 speak we'd be happy to hear hear you if you if you would we just ask you to fill 2866 04:21:41,680 --> 04:21:48,560 it off a card or come down after Tina harborson harborson 2867 04:21:48,560 --> 04:21:59,360 I live at six six seven zero Green Valley Circle just north of the Clear 2868 04:21:59,360 --> 04:22:04,840 Creek area and I have a problem with this for the transportation problem first 2869 04:22:04,840 --> 04:22:12,640 and foremost I had a daughter who got her car totaled on the loop and 428 and 2870 04:22:12,640 --> 04:22:17,800 she still has she still cannot drive that area because of that plus all these 2871 04:22:17,800 --> 04:22:21,080 people that have the horses with the horse trailers out there that are 2872 04:22:21,080 --> 04:22:27,520 carrying a lot of weight and you have to people are going 60 70 miles an hour out 2873 04:22:27,520 --> 04:22:31,440 there and you have to come to a stop so they can turn to go to their property or 2874 04:22:31,440 --> 04:22:36,920 continue on and a lot of these people do not stop and they will rear end you you 2875 04:22:36,920 --> 04:22:43,160 need to go look at all the accidents that have been done on that road it is 2876 04:22:43,160 --> 04:22:48,080 um it's gotten to the point where I actually go out of my way and take 21 64 2877 04:22:48,080 --> 04:22:52,960 so I do not have to deal with 428 and that is my biggest deal and thank you 2878 04:22:52,960 --> 04:22:55,120 very much 2879 04:23:01,440 --> 04:23:07,680 is everyone wishing to speak yeah come on if you just state your name and 2880 04:23:07,680 --> 04:23:22,920 address I'm Grant Icock 7617 FM 428 Denton Texas our property is across the 2881 04:23:22,920 --> 04:23:30,120 street basically from the top part of the red so just to the west and like 2882 04:23:30,120 --> 04:23:37,160 the lady before me just said we would we would need a turn lane for one house 2883 04:23:37,160 --> 04:23:43,280 because we do pull trailers in and out people and there's actually a guardrail 2884 04:23:43,280 --> 04:23:49,000 on the what would that be the east side and people will pass across the solid 2885 04:23:49,000 --> 04:23:55,120 white line in between the guardrail and a horse trailer already so yeah that's 2886 04:23:55,120 --> 04:24:01,240 oh and actually last year we had a car crash into our pipe fence the guy almost 2887 04:24:01,240 --> 04:24:06,760 died the car went in flames and everything it was 2 in the morning I was 2888 04:24:06,760 --> 04:24:12,200 just over a year ago so anyway again the road definitely needs infrastructure 2889 04:24:12,200 --> 04:24:16,240 first thank you thank you 2890 04:24:20,120 --> 04:24:25,480 this is a public hearing be happy and welcome any feedback you might have 2891 04:24:25,480 --> 04:24:30,440 please just come forward and state your name and address if you do speak we ask 2892 04:24:30,440 --> 04:24:34,480 you to fill out a card just for our records my name is Vicki McGovern I live 2893 04:24:34,480 --> 04:24:39,400 at 3110 Hartley Field Road and that little slide that was just up there I'm 2894 04:24:39,400 --> 04:24:46,300 just down that line from yeah see that little line that very first line we live 2895 04:24:46,300 --> 04:24:51,400 at the end of that road we're new to Denton County actually we've downsized a 2896 04:24:51,400 --> 04:24:56,040 move to Denton from Valley View we had a 60 acre ranch right off outside of the 2897 04:24:56,040 --> 04:24:59,720 Lake Ray Roberts area and I was very involved with the planning and zoning 2898 04:24:59,720 --> 04:25:03,760 committee there because we did the very same thing we created a comprehensive 2899 04:25:03,760 --> 04:25:09,000 plan that allowed for gradual growth in that area and and the proposal on the 2900 04:25:09,000 --> 04:25:16,360 table was five acres to one acre down into more highly dense properties right 2901 04:25:16,360 --> 04:25:20,640 now as we come out of Hartley Field Road I can tell you that it is extremely 2902 04:25:20,640 --> 04:25:27,040 dangerous just to turn left on to 428 because you just come up over the the 2903 04:25:27,040 --> 04:25:31,880 ramp there by the water park so you can barely see the traffic and some people 2904 04:25:31,880 --> 04:25:36,080 come flying over there so without a doubt the traffic and impact is going to 2905 04:25:36,080 --> 04:25:41,120 be great especially with that high density housing and then just to hear 2906 04:25:41,120 --> 04:25:46,240 that another high density area was planned just sort of down and across from 2907 04:25:46,240 --> 04:25:50,380 that right near that water park so I think the infrastructure is going to be 2908 04:25:50,380 --> 04:25:55,560 extremely important and I would like to highly urge the committee here to 2909 04:25:55,560 --> 04:26:01,400 consider a less dense as we start to develop north as we start to grow our 2910 04:26:01,400 --> 04:26:04,980 properties our property actually is seven acres and a lot of the other 2911 04:26:04,980 --> 04:26:09,240 properties right in that neighborhood are also five and seven acres as well so 2912 04:26:09,240 --> 04:26:13,040 thank you very much 2913 04:26:13,040 --> 04:26:28,720 is there anything else I wanted to speak on this item so we individuals have one 2914 04:26:28,720 --> 04:26:33,760 opportunity to speak so if it comes up we might be able to call on you but right 2915 04:26:33,760 --> 04:26:40,960 now it's one per individual seeing no other individuals want to speak I'll 2916 04:26:40,960 --> 04:26:45,200 close the public hearing and now we'll turn it to the dais for any questions 2917 04:26:45,200 --> 04:26:49,320 you might have staff with the applicant we want to address those or open up for 2918 04:26:49,320 --> 04:26:56,920 discussion amongst us on the item commissioner Beck thank you chair I want 2919 04:26:56,920 --> 04:27:00,440 to thank everybody for coming out tonight taking time and speaking 2920 04:27:00,440 --> 04:27:04,360 especially the people that are going to be affected by this area you were all 2921 04:27:04,360 --> 04:27:10,840 very well informed and very articulate so we appreciate that zone change 2922 04:27:10,840 --> 04:27:13,400 requests are probably one of the toughest things we as a commission deal 2923 04:27:13,400 --> 04:27:18,360 with and I appreciate Sharon Kramer's comments recognizing the difficulty we 2924 04:27:18,360 --> 04:27:22,000 have doing this sometimes especially in an area where we got higher density 2925 04:27:22,000 --> 04:27:26,240 developments moving in close to existing homes of lesser density so I'm gonna 2926 04:27:26,240 --> 04:27:29,680 kind of read from my notes here if the chair will allow and I'm gonna you're 2927 04:27:29,680 --> 04:27:33,360 gonna hear me say some things that y'all have already mentioned so pardon my 2928 04:27:33,360 --> 04:27:38,280 redundancy the common concerns are legitimate ones were increased traffic 2929 04:27:38,280 --> 04:27:44,080 noise and the potential for increased crime proposed worries for existing 2930 04:27:44,080 --> 04:27:48,640 homeowners yet everyone understands that we have to grow just not in ways that 2931 04:27:48,640 --> 04:27:53,080 impacts their neighborhood we're seeing developers going out of their way to 2932 04:27:53,080 --> 04:27:58,320 ease these concerns for those that they build around but invariably they'll 2933 04:27:58,320 --> 04:28:01,720 always be those who simply don't feel that they go far enough and I understand 2934 04:28:01,720 --> 04:28:05,280 that in this case we're being asked to change zoning that will allow the 2935 04:28:05,280 --> 04:28:09,520 development of four houses to an acre adjacent to properties that may have no 2936 04:28:09,520 --> 04:28:14,480 more than one home to several acres the rural atmosphere of this region region 2937 04:28:14,480 --> 04:28:18,680 does face a threat to it with higher density development but as the city 2938 04:28:18,680 --> 04:28:23,040 grows this area is in the sights of developers and city planners to address 2939 04:28:23,040 --> 04:28:29,600 housing needs where fewer infill areas exist within the city proper there of 2940 04:28:29,600 --> 04:28:33,720 course will always be traffic increases with any new development in the ability 2941 04:28:33,720 --> 04:28:38,560 of roads and other infrastructure to handle this influx is critical often 2942 04:28:38,560 --> 04:28:43,240 however it requires new development to demonstrate a need for improved traffic 2943 04:28:43,240 --> 04:28:48,080 conditions especially when we're dealing with state highway like we are with FM 2944 04:28:48,080 --> 04:28:53,040 428 these improvements on this road have to be approved by text that city of 2945 04:28:53,040 --> 04:28:57,440 Denton doesn't control that and we all know that that process seldom moves at 2946 04:28:57,440 --> 04:29:02,680 the speed needed to meet new development noise and increased time will also be a 2947 04:29:02,680 --> 04:29:06,440 factor with any type of growth and to single it out in some cases over others 2948 04:29:06,440 --> 04:29:10,680 is often baseless rather than block any new development to avoid this the city 2949 04:29:10,680 --> 04:29:14,160 will have to meet the demands of this kind of growth by enlarging our police 2950 04:29:14,160 --> 04:29:19,360 force and fire departments and using practices that reduce noise during and 2951 04:29:19,360 --> 04:29:25,040 even after development normally I have no problem improving zone change requests 2952 04:29:25,040 --> 04:29:29,240 to allow these types of developments because it does fit a need for this area 2953 04:29:29,240 --> 04:29:33,000 in the future and will serve as a transition to a lower density area 2954 04:29:33,000 --> 04:29:37,600 surrounding it to what eventually could become more dense with commercial 2955 04:29:37,600 --> 04:29:42,480 development and even some multifamily dwellings the rewrite of the dent 2956 04:29:42,480 --> 04:29:45,600 development code I think was touched on briefly here and I sit on that sub 2957 04:29:45,600 --> 04:29:51,280 committee is scheduled to be released later this year they're looking at this 2958 04:29:51,280 --> 04:29:56,640 strip of Sherman Drive north of loop 288 as what we call a suburban corridor it's 2959 04:29:56,640 --> 04:30:02,400 a new zoning designation that will have a mixed use for the land that includes 2960 04:30:02,400 --> 04:30:05,720 the type of development that we're currently seeing along the University 2961 04:30:05,720 --> 04:30:10,320 Drive in teething lane in South Denton development that would actually I think 2962 04:30:10,320 --> 04:30:13,920 serve the residents in this area where you don't have to drive four or five 2963 04:30:13,920 --> 04:30:19,840 miles to go get a gallon of milk having said all this however I am reluctant at 2964 04:30:19,840 --> 04:30:24,960 this time to prove this zone change request for three reasons the housing 2965 04:30:24,960 --> 04:30:29,220 market has slowed tremendously over the last six months and the demand for new 2966 04:30:29,220 --> 04:30:33,600 housing is lacking we have currently approved the NR6 zoning on the west 2967 04:30:33,600 --> 04:30:38,040 side of Sherman Drive that will out six houses to an acre depending on how they 2968 04:30:38,040 --> 04:30:42,960 are priced will determine how fast they sell I've been informed by some realtors 2969 04:30:42,960 --> 04:30:47,280 that suggest unless new housing is priced under $300,000 the demand for 2970 04:30:47,280 --> 04:30:52,520 housing will remain low or even stagnant the bigger homes in an NR for district 2971 04:30:52,520 --> 04:30:58,600 are likely to exceed that 300,000 price range secondly the large existing lots 2972 04:30:58,600 --> 04:31:03,080 that currently occupy the east side of Sherman Drive really can accommodate a 2973 04:31:03,080 --> 04:31:07,780 zone change request that puts four houses on one acre we do need to 2974 04:31:07,780 --> 04:31:11,600 sustain this area for the larger lots and provide a sense of country now and 2975 04:31:11,600 --> 04:31:15,360 in the future in my opinion any further housing development this area should 2976 04:31:15,360 --> 04:31:18,720 stay on the west side of Sherman Drive creating neighborhoods that will blend 2977 04:31:18,720 --> 04:31:21,680 in with the existing Beaver Creek addition that's to the west of there and 2978 04:31:21,680 --> 04:31:25,720 ultimately find their way over to the North Locust Road there we can better 2979 04:31:25,720 --> 04:31:29,360 accommodate the roads needed to handle the additional traffic this development 2980 04:31:29,360 --> 04:31:33,720 brings in with it because we don't have to deal with textile and lastly we need 2981 04:31:33,720 --> 04:31:37,440 to do everything we can to widen streets and roads that will be expected to 2982 04:31:37,440 --> 04:31:43,040 handle new to develop before that development begins we too often put the 2983 04:31:43,040 --> 04:31:46,560 cart before the horse and staff has heard me say this in numerous times and 2984 04:31:46,560 --> 04:31:49,800 in so doing it creates adverse driving conditions for existing and new 2985 04:31:49,800 --> 04:31:54,320 homeowners FM 428 is on the drawing board to be expanded to handle the 2986 04:31:54,320 --> 04:31:58,080 future growth the city sees for this area it makes sense to wait until 2987 04:31:58,080 --> 04:32:02,440 textile is willing to at least set a date for construction before we starting 2988 04:32:02,440 --> 04:32:05,840 further development here and put people's worries about traffic volumes at 2989 04:32:05,840 --> 04:32:10,340 these I understand the traffic signal that's going to be put at loop 288 and 2990 04:32:10,340 --> 04:32:14,560 Sherman Drive but the volume of traffic that will be generated with new housing 2991 04:32:14,560 --> 04:32:19,320 subdivisions of this size will still have to contend with the Tulane Road so 2992 04:32:19,320 --> 04:32:22,160 at this time I cannot approve and I'm going to recommend denial of this 2993 04:32:22,160 --> 04:32:26,880 sudden change request but I have no problem in the future with building one 2994 04:32:26,880 --> 04:32:32,880 or two houses per acre on it thank you thank you mr. Beck I want to be okay 2995 04:32:32,880 --> 04:32:38,400 clear are you moving for denial you putting a motion in okay with the 2996 04:32:38,400 --> 04:32:45,040 motion on the floor do we have a second kisser Cole I second motion for denial 2997 04:32:45,040 --> 04:32:49,040 okay any discussion on the item Commissioner 2998 04:32:49,040 --> 04:33:04,160 Pernetta is there any other discussion on this item kisser Alice thank you 2999 04:33:04,160 --> 04:33:10,840 chair I guess just a couple of thoughts clearly growth is coming to the area and 3000 04:33:10,840 --> 04:33:18,280 our plan does need to be re-looked at it's five years old now and and in that 3001 04:33:18,280 --> 04:33:23,440 area is changing and development is happening and will happen I do have an 3002 04:33:23,440 --> 04:33:27,760 issue with density on this side of 428 basically because of what's already 3003 04:33:27,760 --> 04:33:33,800 developed there in the Hartley field area I understand the development that 3004 04:33:33,800 --> 04:33:37,720 we've we've done on the west side and I agree with Commissioner Beck that the 3005 04:33:37,720 --> 04:33:45,800 higher density belongs on that side I'm not so sure right now it belongs on on 3006 04:33:45,800 --> 04:33:50,640 the requested side that we're discussing tonight those are my thoughts at the 3007 04:33:50,640 --> 04:34:00,040 moment Christian Sanchez I know we've talked about the 2030 plan and as it was 3008 04:34:00,040 --> 04:34:06,000 mentioned it was done five years ago but things have changed change things are 3009 04:34:06,000 --> 04:34:12,640 changing rapidly I think especially with the economic situation that we have 3010 04:34:12,640 --> 04:34:20,680 today that and and then is really growing fast I have I guess my issue is 3011 04:34:20,680 --> 04:34:26,920 we don't have really control of you know they write they do a 2030 plan but who 3012 04:34:26,920 --> 04:34:32,080 really runs that and I think developers go out there and look for areas where 3013 04:34:32,080 --> 04:34:36,960 you know there's some infrastructure without development there's no 3014 04:34:36,960 --> 04:34:44,080 infrastructure the developers are the ones that create that so if anything 3015 04:34:44,080 --> 04:34:47,840 ever is going to develop on the south side you're going to have to have some 3016 04:34:47,840 --> 04:34:53,240 development and I kind of look at the area I drive up there for 28 because I 3017 04:34:53,240 --> 04:34:58,480 go through Aubrey pilot point constantly almost on a weekly basis every other day 3018 04:34:58,480 --> 04:35:07,760 but we talk about having bigger lots seven eight acres well if you're going to 3019 04:35:07,760 --> 04:35:14,980 put 368 acres I mean homes you're going to take up a lot more land than what's 3020 04:35:14,980 --> 04:35:20,560 being required I think for what's being asked for to develop 368 acres on 98 3021 04:35:20,560 --> 04:35:27,440 acres as opposed to expanding that so I have a real problem I see urban 3022 04:35:27,440 --> 04:35:32,400 development all over and we see it here in Denton and it scares me because where 3023 04:35:32,400 --> 04:35:36,800 all these people coming from that's what I wonder I also see all these large 3024 04:35:36,800 --> 04:35:43,800 apartment complexes and that's scary too but we have to house people moving into 3025 04:35:43,800 --> 04:35:47,960 Denton if Denton wants to grow if we don't want to grow then we're gonna have 3026 04:35:47,960 --> 04:35:51,440 to they're gonna they're gonna develop further out from Denton but they're 3027 04:35:51,440 --> 04:35:59,240 gonna develop and we see that on 380 several years ago I used to drive that 3028 04:35:59,240 --> 04:36:06,520 on a regular basis also because I didn't go up to bottom and when it was a 3029 04:36:06,520 --> 04:36:11,360 two-lane road and when it became all of a sudden you started developing and and 3030 04:36:11,360 --> 04:36:16,040 the houses came first and then the road came second and that's how it happens 3031 04:36:16,040 --> 04:36:20,240 even here in Denton we have people complaining all the time hey you're 3032 04:36:20,240 --> 04:36:26,240 putting houses and there's no roads so my concern is we always put the cart 3033 04:36:26,240 --> 04:36:32,000 before the horse but is that the nature of the beast until until we all get 3034 04:36:32,000 --> 04:36:39,040 together and change that it's going to continue so I don't know if I have a 3035 04:36:39,040 --> 04:36:45,320 concern that if we don't start if we don't develop anything if we don't spend 3036 04:36:45,320 --> 04:36:50,880 time and start developing these areas the infrastructure is not going to just 3037 04:36:50,880 --> 04:36:58,000 happen by itself so I'm leaning towards voting for for the for the for the 3038 04:36:58,000 --> 04:37:04,840 motion Krister back thank you chair I just wanted to remind everybody to 3039 04:37:04,840 --> 04:37:08,040 regardless of the outcome of the vote tonight if the denial holds up or it 3040 04:37:08,040 --> 04:37:11,840 gets approved this still moves on to the City Council this isn't the final spot 3041 04:37:11,840 --> 04:37:15,280 here so if it doesn't come out to your liking that's where they're gonna make 3042 04:37:15,280 --> 04:37:20,320 a decision so you'll need to come back and force if that's the case so I just 3043 04:37:20,320 --> 04:37:26,760 wanted to be sure y'all were there where they thank you Commissioner Pernitta 3044 04:37:26,760 --> 04:37:32,640 just kind of just a few things out here I want to thank everybody for coming out 3045 04:37:32,640 --> 04:37:40,040 usually when we hear discussion of safety and everything there's euphemisms 3046 04:37:40,040 --> 04:37:47,320 involved and then we know that they're talking about other things I know y'all's 3047 04:37:47,320 --> 04:37:51,920 area pretty well I like to hop on my Harley and ride out to our Aubrey and 3048 04:37:51,920 --> 04:37:55,720 sometimes kind of cut off on those little country roads so I can see the 3049 04:37:55,720 --> 04:38:00,920 horses around there I also know what the traffic's like on there because being on 3050 04:38:00,920 --> 04:38:07,160 a motorcycle you don't get a lot of respect from people driving along that 3051 04:38:07,160 --> 04:38:12,880 way so I know how I know how dangerous it is I think in the in the work session 3052 04:38:12,880 --> 04:38:17,960 one of the things that I had a concern about was the traffic impact because I 3053 04:38:17,960 --> 04:38:23,440 think they said something is something about 3,400 trips a day and there's a 3054 04:38:23,440 --> 04:38:28,600 lot that that impacts it's not just around you guys because you know those 3055 04:38:28,600 --> 04:38:32,840 number of trips a day mean that people are gonna have to go shopping and right 3056 04:38:32,840 --> 04:38:36,080 now that means that they're gonna have to go all the way down to Sherman to 3057 04:38:36,080 --> 04:38:42,680 Kroger on you know on University which means that it impacts traffic well into 3058 04:38:42,680 --> 04:38:53,560 Denton I don't know that I agree with the NR4 where it is I think right now if 3059 04:38:53,560 --> 04:38:57,200 we're gonna do put anything out there I would prefer to see mixed usage so that 3060 04:38:57,200 --> 04:39:03,800 way we could have an infrastructure for people to you know to to come out we do 3061 04:39:03,800 --> 04:39:09,620 know that it's going to be growing there is growth inevitably coming if we were 3062 04:39:09,620 --> 04:39:15,560 to approve this today we would probably see it not until like 2022 so it'd be 3063 04:39:15,560 --> 04:39:19,800 like three or four years down the road and at that point you know I'm not sure 3064 04:39:19,800 --> 04:39:25,680 what's going to happen we know the density is coming I don't know that I'm 3065 04:39:25,680 --> 04:39:29,800 comfortable with that density in that spot when there's some other places 3066 04:39:29,800 --> 04:39:36,840 where it'd be better equipped to handle traffic and people still up in the air 3067 04:39:36,840 --> 04:39:39,360 on how I'm gonna vote on this but I want to thank everybody for coming out and 3068 04:39:39,360 --> 04:39:47,320 giving us your time and your voice. Commissioner Smith. Well I don't I don't 3069 04:39:47,320 --> 04:39:52,840 agree with the the density on this project I believe that that as you as you 3070 04:39:52,840 --> 04:39:56,960 do add more and more folks this corridor does gonna create a lot of issues and I 3071 04:39:56,960 --> 04:40:03,680 would rather see a project that is closer to like a country lakes the 3072 04:40:03,680 --> 04:40:09,080 country lakes division that's out in Argyle or like something that's like 3073 04:40:09,080 --> 04:40:16,880 Lakeview Ranch out on 380 that's a little bit a little bit less dense you 3074 04:40:16,880 --> 04:40:19,800 know then you get into conversations about what's economically feasible with 3075 04:40:19,800 --> 04:40:26,360 construction costs and the and the limited space it's allowed but I won't 3076 04:40:26,360 --> 04:40:31,480 be able to vote for an approval to deny on this project because I think as 3077 04:40:31,480 --> 04:40:35,840 Commissioner Sanchez has already mentioned that and I full 100% agree 3078 04:40:35,840 --> 04:40:42,080 with is that sadly enough in this day and the way that development works in 3079 04:40:42,080 --> 04:40:48,240 the city the cart does lead the horse that if there are issues with Hartley 3080 04:40:48,240 --> 04:40:51,500 Field and getting a stoplight out there or having expansion on your blacktop 3081 04:40:51,500 --> 04:40:55,800 road or getting getting safety I have clients live out there in Hartley Field 3082 04:40:55,800 --> 04:41:00,280 Road I have to leave at you know 8 p.m. in the dark and try to turn left to get 3083 04:41:00,280 --> 04:41:05,840 on 428 to go to my house down in Oakmont I know it's like it's a scary turn and 3084 04:41:05,840 --> 04:41:11,040 that that development that change isn't gonna happen unless there's a real 3085 04:41:11,040 --> 04:41:16,480 economic reason for the city to go out there and build it and so while I did 3086 04:41:16,480 --> 04:41:20,380 not make a motion to approve because I was waiting to kind of feel out and see 3087 04:41:20,380 --> 04:41:23,920 what everyone else is gonna do before I said something I am gonna say that I will 3088 04:41:23,920 --> 04:41:30,200 not vote for a for a denial of this project but thank you commissioners 3089 04:41:30,200 --> 04:41:35,480 before we call us to the vote I was gonna say summary with my thoughts I 3090 04:41:35,480 --> 04:41:39,520 have a lot of chicken scratch notes here that hopefully I can get through in a 3091 04:41:39,520 --> 04:41:43,720 cohesive manner about the way I'm currently thinking about this project 3092 04:41:43,720 --> 04:41:48,680 the first is to say I don't live in the area but I am sometimes a cyclist and so 3093 04:41:48,680 --> 04:41:52,160 parking at an auditorium and going to mom's cafe and Aubrey through Elm 3094 04:41:52,160 --> 04:41:57,200 bottom and is not rare and so I understand the roads and the narrowness 3095 04:41:57,200 --> 04:42:00,720 of some of those roads and the beauty of some of those streets once you get back 3096 04:42:00,720 --> 04:42:08,280 into some of the ones off the beaten path like wildcat and stuff so with that 3097 04:42:08,280 --> 04:42:13,600 as a commission I often like the opportunities when we get to plan a lot 3098 04:42:13,600 --> 04:42:16,880 of times we do zoning and on the plan zoning Commission we don't do a lot of 3099 04:42:16,880 --> 04:42:21,960 planning we get to hear cases and we get to rezone and plat I think tonight is an 3100 04:42:21,960 --> 04:42:25,320 opportunity where we as a commission get to plan that we get to either reinforce 3101 04:42:25,320 --> 04:42:30,760 what the city has said five years ago or seemingly kind of changed direction of 3102 04:42:30,760 --> 04:42:35,880 the development of that land going forward and and though whatever's 3103 04:42:35,880 --> 04:42:39,600 decided here I don't think we can save the horses in Aubrey or all the horses 3104 04:42:39,600 --> 04:42:44,000 there's gonna be development out there I just question if and in our for 3105 04:42:44,000 --> 04:42:50,120 development is actually smart planning for the area and so and I think it's 3106 04:42:50,120 --> 04:42:55,160 twofold is it smart planning for the residents understand the future of what 3107 04:42:55,160 --> 04:42:59,160 their land holds because as right now every piece that comes before us is 3108 04:42:59,160 --> 04:43:04,640 going to be this one-off and the residents won't know what what conditions 3109 04:43:04,640 --> 04:43:07,840 or what we're looking at to meet that so how our residents and citizens have 3110 04:43:07,840 --> 04:43:12,440 been to know exactly what would get approved or what we see the area doing 3111 04:43:12,440 --> 04:43:16,440 in terms of development so I think there's some ambiguous there for the 3112 04:43:16,440 --> 04:43:20,360 residents and there's ambiguousness right now for the developers to understand 3113 04:43:20,360 --> 04:43:25,280 what projects the city wants to encourage and I don't think approving 3114 04:43:25,280 --> 04:43:31,840 this solidifies or reduces any of that ambiguity to the way our city needs and 3115 04:43:31,840 --> 04:43:38,040 and wants to grow I tend to agree with mr. Wells that although I guess the city 3116 04:43:38,040 --> 04:43:43,720 views in our for as low density it doesn't seem like a buffer into horse 3117 04:43:43,720 --> 04:43:48,880 country it seems like an aggressive step especially when you think of when I 3118 04:43:48,880 --> 04:43:55,560 drive down I 35 W and you crest over and you see has lit and those houses I don't 3119 04:43:55,560 --> 04:43:58,600 necessarily know if that's the best thing for North Denton but one of my 3120 04:43:58,600 --> 04:44:04,480 biggest concerns I said in work session is right now that area that the city is 3121 04:44:04,480 --> 04:44:08,560 just rooftops and I don't feel that sustainable good planning I don't know 3122 04:44:08,560 --> 04:44:11,720 if the residents want a strip center McDonald's out there but I don't think 3123 04:44:11,720 --> 04:44:17,360 smart growth doesn't include some sort of corner store or gas station or 3124 04:44:17,360 --> 04:44:23,080 something and if we have houses being butted up to 428 it doesn't allow for 3125 04:44:23,080 --> 04:44:27,680 any sort of smart growth their centers along the way it just forces a ton more 3126 04:44:27,680 --> 04:44:32,000 traffic all the way down Sherman to University and so I just think there's 3127 04:44:32,000 --> 04:44:39,720 ways to improve that so the things that I will say is I think tonight I would 3128 04:44:39,720 --> 04:44:44,360 like to see and we can talk later about this from a commission standpoint what 3129 04:44:44,360 --> 04:44:48,640 to do about the future land use map it's clearly not accurate I think there needs 3130 04:44:48,640 --> 04:44:52,680 to be an update however there's people years ago that was set in these seats 3131 04:44:52,680 --> 04:44:56,800 before us that decided that the plan was rural I wasn't in those 3132 04:44:56,800 --> 04:45:01,120 conversations that's what they decided who am I to go back and say whatever was 3133 04:45:01,120 --> 04:45:04,640 talked about decided I'm going to change there needs to be an entire new committee 3134 04:45:04,640 --> 04:45:09,320 to re-update the future land use map that gives us better direction city staff 3135 04:45:09,320 --> 04:45:13,240 analysis even said this doesn't meet the current future land use map so we used 3136 04:45:13,240 --> 04:45:18,800 alternative criteria and so that's not a mark against the city it's more should 3137 04:45:18,800 --> 04:45:23,360 be a precipice of updating some of the records and I hope to to see what kind 3138 04:45:23,360 --> 04:45:26,560 of progress we can make and and considering like Commissioner Beck said 3139 04:45:26,560 --> 04:45:30,720 we have some some things coming down the pike in terms of updates to that 3140 04:45:30,720 --> 04:45:35,560 planning I'd rather wait five six months and have the development come back in 3141 04:45:35,560 --> 04:45:40,720 terms of what the city has been updated to desire rather than using something 3142 04:45:40,720 --> 04:45:46,720 that I feel is a little outdated so all that being said two things well three 3143 04:45:46,720 --> 04:45:52,120 things one I don't know the record but 29 written responses from the city might 3144 04:45:52,120 --> 04:45:57,120 be a record so I appreciate residents speaking up it helps frame the 3145 04:45:57,120 --> 04:46:01,240 discussion I say it often y'all being here providing feedback phone calls 3146 04:46:01,240 --> 04:46:05,320 whatever it is helps us understand the situation especially if we don't live 3147 04:46:05,320 --> 04:46:09,780 there so I appreciate you responding and coming out I appreciate the city staff 3148 04:46:09,780 --> 04:46:13,160 for looking through this and even the presentation looked like it took a long 3149 04:46:13,160 --> 04:46:17,560 time to develop so I appreciate the work and moreover I don't know if another 3150 04:46:17,560 --> 04:46:22,200 developer other than Allison engineering group could have presented a better 3151 04:46:22,200 --> 04:46:26,800 case for the property and so certainly when he was presenting I thought man 3152 04:46:26,800 --> 04:46:32,800 this looks like a really good project the presentation was was flawless and I 3153 04:46:32,800 --> 04:46:37,280 know from previous work if a development was to be made for that team I think 3154 04:46:37,280 --> 04:46:42,760 it'd be great tonight however I can't support the the motion so that's my 3155 04:46:42,760 --> 04:46:47,680 piece I'll step off my soapbox and what I do is restate the motion because it's 3156 04:46:47,680 --> 04:46:52,400 a little cumbersome to make sure we all understand how we're voting the motion 3157 04:46:52,400 --> 04:46:57,200 on the table is to deny this request what that means like Commissioner Beck 3158 04:46:57,200 --> 04:47:00,920 said is they can still proceed to council if they choose if they do I'd 3159 04:47:00,920 --> 04:47:04,960 say show up back at council because council can override us with a super 3160 04:47:04,960 --> 04:47:11,400 majority but the motion on the table is to to deny the request so a vote for yes 3161 04:47:11,400 --> 04:47:18,200 is to decline a vote for no is to not decline is there any questions on how 3162 04:47:18,200 --> 04:47:25,040 that is going to work okay with that let's vote on the board 3163 04:47:30,920 --> 04:47:48,200 the motion to deny carries five to so at this time it's 845 on a call of recess 3164 04:47:48,200 --> 04:47:51,520 for five minutes to clear the room of those who would like to leave we'll come 3165 04:47:51,520 --> 04:47:59,080 back at 850 thank you for allowing that brief recess it is now nine o'clock will 3166 04:47:59,080 --> 04:48:08,920 reconvene with our next public hearing item it is item 5b z 18 - 0 0 1 7 b I 3167 04:48:08,920 --> 04:48:17,920 will open the public hearing and invite Haley for presentation good evening this 3168 04:48:17,920 --> 04:48:25,040 is Casey 1817 for lakeside place the request before you is twofold it is for 3169 04:48:25,040 --> 04:48:30,440 an initial zoning designation of nr4 on approximately 86 acres of land as well 3170 04:48:30,440 --> 04:48:36,040 as a rezoning from nr2 to nr4 district on six acres so to look at that a 3171 04:48:36,040 --> 04:48:39,640 little more closely you can see on the map on the left the hatched area is what 3172 04:48:39,640 --> 04:48:43,840 is currently already 5x those 86 acres were recently annexed into the city a 3173 04:48:43,840 --> 04:48:47,480 council approved that back in November and then the six acres that was 3174 04:48:47,480 --> 04:48:50,360 referenced is this far northwestern corner of the property that's currently 3175 04:48:50,360 --> 04:48:55,080 nr2 so you can see on the proposed zoning map that the nr4 would be 3176 04:48:55,080 --> 04:48:58,440 generally consistent with other zonings in the area it's kind of a mixture of 3177 04:48:58,440 --> 04:49:02,640 nr4 and nr3 at this point in time as well as on the other side of the railroad 3178 04:49:02,640 --> 04:49:09,040 tracks some commercial zoning as well as residential so with a rezoning we have 3179 04:49:09,040 --> 04:49:13,320 two primary criteria for approval the first being that the rezoning conformed 3180 04:49:13,320 --> 04:49:17,000 to the future land use element of the Denton plan 2030 and the second being 3181 04:49:17,000 --> 04:49:21,800 that the rezoning facilitate the adequate provision of infrastructure so 3182 04:49:21,800 --> 04:49:26,000 looking at each of those in turn now the future land use map within our Denton 3183 04:49:26,000 --> 04:49:30,360 plan 2030 designates this this area and all of the area shown in yellow here on 3184 04:49:30,360 --> 04:49:35,040 the map as low residential as we've recently discussed low residential in 3185 04:49:35,040 --> 04:49:38,580 our future land use plan is classified as anything between one and four dwelling 3186 04:49:38,580 --> 04:49:43,200 units per acre so we have the zoning districts in our one in our two in our 3187 04:49:43,200 --> 04:49:47,040 three and in our four that all fall within that so the requested in our four 3188 04:49:47,040 --> 04:49:52,200 district is consistent with that future land use designation that second 3189 04:49:52,200 --> 04:49:55,520 criteria we'll look at a little more closely so the first aspect that we 3190 04:49:55,520 --> 04:49:59,960 looked at was water and sewer utilities it's maybe a little hard to see on your 3191 04:49:59,960 --> 04:50:04,160 map here but there is a faint dotted blue line here and that is an existing 3192 04:50:04,160 --> 04:50:08,100 newly installed water line that would be available to serve the site and then 3193 04:50:08,100 --> 04:50:11,360 there are sewer lines subbed out at either end of Creekdale so we have one 3194 04:50:11,360 --> 04:50:14,120 here on the northern side of the property as well as another one here 3195 04:50:14,120 --> 04:50:19,840 that would be available to this site looking at transportation we'll look a 3196 04:50:19,840 --> 04:50:22,920 little more closely here because there's a lot going on in this area the 3197 04:50:22,920 --> 04:50:26,720 applicant did provide a traffic impact analysis for staff to review as part of 3198 04:50:26,720 --> 04:50:31,360 this request some of the key findings of that were that a need for improvements 3199 04:50:31,360 --> 04:50:35,040 on their frontage on Hickory Creek Road as well as the need for the extension of 3200 04:50:35,040 --> 04:50:38,240 Creekdale to connect those two points at the northern and the western edge of the 3201 04:50:38,240 --> 04:50:45,000 edges of the site the TI also included several other recommendations such as 3202 04:50:45,000 --> 04:50:49,120 the relocation of the proposed alignment of Hickory Creek Road on our mobility 3203 04:50:49,120 --> 04:50:53,320 plan so if you look at the map here this red dashed line is what the mobility 3204 04:50:53,320 --> 04:50:57,120 plan several years ago envisioned being the logical alignment for Hickory Creek 3205 04:50:57,120 --> 04:51:01,880 Road so through this traffic impact analysis it was assessed and discovered 3206 04:51:01,880 --> 04:51:06,260 that that's probably not the most logical place for this road to go a more 3207 04:51:06,260 --> 04:51:11,200 logical and likely alignment of the road will be a continuation straight through 3208 04:51:11,200 --> 04:51:15,920 this area as it is now along the subject property and then somehow crossing the 3209 04:51:15,920 --> 04:51:19,760 floodplain and connecting over here with brush Creek most likely that's all still 3210 04:51:19,760 --> 04:51:24,040 highly tentative as Julie mentioned with the last case there the city's 3211 04:51:24,040 --> 04:51:26,680 engineering department and planning department are trying to work together 3212 04:51:26,680 --> 04:51:31,320 and do some be a little less myopic have some bigger picture studies of certain 3213 04:51:31,320 --> 04:51:36,120 regions of the city so much like we did on Sherman Drive we're looking to kick 3214 04:51:36,120 --> 04:51:41,320 off fairly soon a study for this Ryan Road Hickory Creek part of the city to 3215 04:51:41,320 --> 04:51:44,080 look at some of these more regional scale of transportation improvements 3216 04:51:44,080 --> 04:51:48,600 that are needed because as you all may know this this portion of the Hickory 3217 04:51:48,600 --> 04:51:51,400 Creek Road is actually a county roads this would be a joint venture between 3218 04:51:51,400 --> 04:51:55,880 Denton County and the city to try to realign this road in the future the city 3219 04:51:55,880 --> 04:52:00,240 currently does have two CIP projects underway for Hickory Creek that are in 3220 04:52:00,240 --> 04:52:05,320 their very early stages and that's to widen the existing road particularly the 3221 04:52:05,320 --> 04:52:09,520 section from Teasley over to Riverdale which is here just east of the subject 3222 04:52:09,520 --> 04:52:14,720 property to a four-lane divided roadway so another component of this TIA was the 3223 04:52:14,720 --> 04:52:18,560 need for this project to coordinate with that city project and try to figure out 3224 04:52:18,560 --> 04:52:23,360 how to to get that widening done through the subject property there is a little 3225 04:52:23,360 --> 04:52:28,520 vacant gap you can see there between where the mouse would pop up for me it's 3226 04:52:28,520 --> 04:52:31,160 not cooperating but between Riverdale and where the subject property would be 3227 04:52:31,160 --> 04:52:34,760 there's a little gap there that would need to be addressed as part of that 3228 04:52:34,760 --> 04:52:40,840 coordination the TIA will require some updates as this project moves forward 3229 04:52:40,840 --> 04:52:44,440 however at this point in time that there wasn't a conceptual plan presented with 3230 04:52:44,440 --> 04:52:48,800 it so until staff's able to look at the TIA in coordination with the actual lot 3231 04:52:48,800 --> 04:52:52,840 layout and proposed street alignment we can't fine-tune a lot of those 3232 04:52:52,840 --> 04:52:56,880 particular off-site improvements so that will be forthcoming as this moves into 3233 04:52:56,880 --> 04:53:01,400 the preliminary plotting phase if the zoning is approved staff did contact 3234 04:53:01,400 --> 04:53:06,080 Denton ISD and found that the schools in this region that this property would go 3235 04:53:06,080 --> 04:53:09,080 to could easily accommodate the students that would be generated by this housing 3236 04:53:09,080 --> 04:53:15,480 development so notifications were sent regarding this request to the 200 and 3237 04:53:15,480 --> 04:53:19,520 500 foot buffers you can see on the map in red and blue we received two written 3238 04:53:19,520 --> 04:53:23,040 responses that were provided to you one in your backup originally and one just 3239 04:53:23,040 --> 04:53:26,480 before the work session today and those are shown in green on the map they were 3240 04:53:26,480 --> 04:53:30,480 both favorable responses the required public hearing notification signs were 3241 04:53:30,480 --> 04:53:35,880 posted on the property as well so staff is recommending approval of this request 3242 04:53:35,880 --> 04:53:39,920 we found it to be compatible with the surrounding land-use pattern consistent 3243 04:53:39,920 --> 04:53:42,320 with the goals and objectives of the Denton plan and that it meets the two 3244 04:53:42,320 --> 04:53:46,480 criteria for approval as discussed and I'm happy to stand for any questions we 3245 04:53:46,480 --> 04:53:51,240 do have one Commissioner Ellis thank you chair Haley just for clarification you 3246 04:53:51,240 --> 04:53:56,600 said Riverdale a couple of times did you mean Creekdale or Creek I may have said 3247 04:53:56,600 --> 04:54:01,440 I'm sorry River Pass Creekdale crosses through the property River Pass is the 3248 04:54:01,440 --> 04:54:08,560 termination of the current project okay thank you sorry about that no other 3249 04:54:08,560 --> 04:54:16,160 questions at this time Haley this is the applicant is here as well perfect is the 3250 04:54:16,160 --> 04:54:21,880 applicant Obra new sir right you might butchering that okay are you the 3251 04:54:21,880 --> 04:54:26,400 applicant yes perfect you to state your name and address record yes thank you I'm 3252 04:54:26,400 --> 04:54:31,720 Abra Nusser and I'm at 180 State Street in South Lake Texas seven six zero nine 3253 04:54:31,720 --> 04:54:37,080 two I'm here representing four star development tonight and this is an 3254 04:54:37,080 --> 04:54:42,120 exciting project we're excited about it it's called lakeside place I'm just 3255 04:54:42,120 --> 04:54:45,400 gonna run through a couple things with you we held a neighborhood meeting in 3256 04:54:45,400 --> 04:54:51,840 September prior to the annexation beginning no negative comments during 3257 04:54:51,840 --> 04:54:56,240 that meeting just some existing concerns about cut through traffic to the north 3258 04:54:56,240 --> 04:55:02,080 nothing specific to our development but just existing traffic concerns at the 3259 04:55:02,080 --> 04:55:07,240 annexation public hearings they did have some significant discussions with staff 3260 04:55:07,240 --> 04:55:11,360 and City Council about the neighborhood traffic programs that the city has to 3261 04:55:11,360 --> 04:55:17,320 address their concerns the annexation was completed in November 2018 and a 3262 04:55:17,320 --> 04:55:20,440 traffic impact analysis as Haley mentioned was conditionally or 3263 04:55:20,440 --> 04:55:25,440 preliminarily approved it's not actually required until platting time when we 3264 04:55:25,440 --> 04:55:30,080 actually know the lot layouts and street alignment so we'll get into that more as 3265 04:55:30,080 --> 04:55:35,740 we move forward so zoning now then platting and then building permits so 3266 04:55:35,740 --> 04:55:40,280 four star is big into building sustainable communities with a true 3267 04:55:40,280 --> 04:55:44,800 sense of place it's a residential and mixed-use real estate development company 3268 04:55:44,800 --> 04:55:48,360 with decades of investment and development experience they have a lot 3269 04:55:48,360 --> 04:55:52,480 of pride in creating neighborhoods with outstanding amenities and green space as 3270 04:55:52,480 --> 04:55:56,760 you'll see here in a moment so just to kind of zoom out this is in what we call 3271 04:55:56,760 --> 04:56:02,560 the wishbone of Denton it's a property that is just kind of left to be filled 3272 04:56:02,560 --> 04:56:08,480 in if you will this is an aerial of the subject property there's a lot of great 3273 04:56:08,480 --> 04:56:14,440 natural areas on the property that we're proposing to preserve and as Haley 3274 04:56:14,440 --> 04:56:19,000 mentioned it is designated low-density residential on the future land use map so 3275 04:56:19,000 --> 04:56:24,800 different from your previous case this one is consistent with the comprehensive 3276 04:56:24,800 --> 04:56:29,160 plan didn't plan 2030 so we're proposing to comply with everything that's 3277 04:56:29,160 --> 04:56:35,360 envisioned for this area it would be in our four maximum four dwelling units per 3278 04:56:35,360 --> 04:56:40,840 acre there's no lot sizes established at this time no lot counts established at 3279 04:56:40,840 --> 04:56:46,560 this time we're simply wishing to get it entitled for a real estate transaction 3280 04:56:46,560 --> 04:56:53,720 at which time the lot lay out and civil improvements could begin so this is a 3281 04:56:53,720 --> 04:57:00,600 kind of a concept of what we imagine the lot area to be so we as you can see 3282 04:57:00,600 --> 04:57:05,360 we're proposing to keep a significant amount of open space and green space if 3283 04:57:05,360 --> 04:57:09,160 you're familiar with the property at all although it's tucked away quite a bit 3284 04:57:09,160 --> 04:57:13,840 it's a very scenic area here's some pictures for you we're proposing to keep 3285 04:57:13,840 --> 04:57:19,240 this so it's going to be a very attractive different type of product 3286 04:57:19,240 --> 04:57:23,880 that will allow the community members who live there to experience the nature 3287 04:57:23,880 --> 04:57:27,760 that's currently on the property and it's going to be very scenic and very 3288 04:57:27,760 --> 04:57:34,880 special so we're excited to preserve a good deal of the property and so next 3289 04:57:34,880 --> 04:57:39,680 steps finalize the zoning plat the preliminary plat will come before you 3290 04:57:39,680 --> 04:57:45,120 where we can discuss lot layout road layout and those types of things and 3291 04:57:45,120 --> 04:57:49,640 building permits I do have one clarification from the work session just 3292 04:57:49,640 --> 04:57:55,280 to clarify there are no gas wells on the subject property so any setbacks and 3293 04:57:55,280 --> 04:57:59,760 whatnot we would have to maintain but there are no gas wells on this property 3294 04:57:59,760 --> 04:58:04,840 and with that I will stand for any questions we do have one Commissioner back thank 3295 04:58:04,840 --> 04:58:07,640 you chair thank you mr. sure I appreciate that and I really love your 3296 04:58:07,640 --> 04:58:11,880 product here but I'm surprised here you say there's no gas wells because when I 3297 04:58:11,880 --> 04:58:16,040 pull it up on the map there's three active gas wells there but what I'm 3298 04:58:16,040 --> 04:58:21,040 seeing with your development and what I was glad to see is look like that green 3299 04:58:21,040 --> 04:58:25,000 zone would cover them all that they would be isolated because of that but 3300 04:58:25,000 --> 04:58:31,480 what I there is a gas well up here that one's been capped I know but you've got 3301 04:58:31,480 --> 04:58:37,280 one in the North sector yeah there's there's a gas well to the east and a 3302 04:58:37,280 --> 04:58:42,440 gas well to the north there's no there's not okay I need to go back and look then 3303 04:58:42,440 --> 04:58:46,480 I apologize but I could have sworn I there was three of them two of them more 3304 04:58:46,480 --> 04:58:52,080 close down there Highland Village or Highland right here is Calvert paving 3305 04:58:52,080 --> 04:58:57,960 corporation yeah and this is where cattle graze okay well I'll go back and 3306 04:58:57,960 --> 04:59:03,240 look at the map and I don't have access but if that's the case great because I 3307 04:59:03,240 --> 04:59:08,760 just out of as a matter of record I have a hard time proving things that were 3308 04:59:08,760 --> 04:59:12,000 homes are going to be in close proximity gas wheels because I do approve a lot of 3309 04:59:12,000 --> 04:59:14,880 problems but they're not there great and if they are it looks like your 3310 04:59:14,880 --> 04:59:22,800 development may even take care of thank you so much Mr. Sanchez 3311 04:59:22,800 --> 04:59:33,360 yes you have any idea how many acres of those are going to be how many acres of 3312 04:59:33,360 --> 04:59:46,920 green space roughly half of the property about property I would say over 20 acres 3313 04:59:46,920 --> 04:59:57,440 well over 20 acres of green space and preserved area okay okay it's kind of 3314 04:59:57,440 --> 05:00:03,000 in planning we call almost conservation development where you try to cluster the 3315 05:00:03,000 --> 05:00:09,000 lots to have as much open space as possible it's really interesting in the 3316 05:00:09,000 --> 05:00:13,520 Denton development code and tracks over two acres in size it allows the market 3317 05:00:13,520 --> 05:00:18,480 to have this type of design flexibility to preserve these beautiful areas so I 3318 05:00:18,480 --> 05:00:25,080 commend you on your Denton development code so I don't see any other questions 3319 05:00:25,080 --> 05:00:30,600 thank you thank you very much this is a public hearing if anyone's wishing to 3320 05:00:30,600 --> 05:00:34,840 speak on the item we certainly do so you just come down and state your name and 3321 05:00:34,840 --> 05:00:45,600 address for the record Tommy Calvert I live at 5299 Settlers Creek Road Denton 3322 05:00:45,600 --> 05:00:52,440 Texas this plan is adjoining my property on the east side this part of the 3323 05:00:52,440 --> 05:00:57,080 property that's being developed and my property was in my family's farm since 3324 05:00:57,080 --> 05:01:03,200 1946 and I'm not totally opposed to the plan but I would be happy to work with 3325 05:01:03,200 --> 05:01:07,280 them to see because I have Thistle Hill on the north side of me and Ryan ranch 3326 05:01:07,280 --> 05:01:12,920 on the east side of me what I have now is trash I have water overflow so I ask 3327 05:01:12,920 --> 05:01:17,040 you to take into consideration these plans before you look at them that you 3328 05:01:17,040 --> 05:01:20,080 look at some of these things that some of us landowners having to deal with 3329 05:01:20,080 --> 05:01:24,680 today like says been in my family over 70 years it was farmland is still ranch 3330 05:01:24,680 --> 05:01:28,080 land I still have cattle on it I'm gonna continue to have cattle on my portion of 3331 05:01:28,080 --> 05:01:32,000 it but I don't need to be flooded and I don't want trash coming down the creek 3332 05:01:32,000 --> 05:01:37,720 as I do have now so I ask that you have them to work with us landowners left 3333 05:01:37,720 --> 05:01:43,440 also in addressing your comprehensive 2030 plan I'm the current president of 3334 05:01:43,440 --> 05:01:47,400 the Denton County Farm Bureau here and I had a look at that plan a while few 3335 05:01:47,400 --> 05:01:50,960 years ago and I looked at the stakeholders that you had involved in 3336 05:01:50,960 --> 05:01:56,960 that plan I did not see any one of us that live out there in the ETJ that was 3337 05:01:56,960 --> 05:02:01,520 in on that plan who was involved with people that would not be affected by 3338 05:02:01,520 --> 05:02:06,400 that plan I ask you look at that when you go back to that plan involve some 3339 05:02:06,400 --> 05:02:10,880 of the stakeholders out there that live out in ETJ they live in the rural what 3340 05:02:10,880 --> 05:02:14,680 used to be rural areas to be involved with that as we could help with that 3341 05:02:14,680 --> 05:02:19,800 planning because we had no involvement we have no say so I have no say so I'm 3342 05:02:19,800 --> 05:02:23,520 not in the city I'm in the county in my portion of this property that just got 3343 05:02:23,520 --> 05:02:28,140 annexed but we try to keep it green space I tried to keep some rural area 3344 05:02:28,140 --> 05:02:32,440 out there it's a beautiful area we border on Hickory Creek my other concern 3345 05:02:32,440 --> 05:02:37,680 will be traffic as any of you ever drive Hickory Creek Road we've got Thistle 3346 05:02:37,680 --> 05:02:41,600 Hill we've got Ryan Ranch down the road now we got all well you know we've had 3347 05:02:41,600 --> 05:02:46,600 accidents we had a fatality just today out there on Hickory Creek Road take in 3348 05:02:46,600 --> 05:02:52,280 consideration that cart before the horse thing how fast can that cart pull that 3349 05:02:52,280 --> 05:02:55,600 horse you know I mean it can't because it's what we're having happen today and 3350 05:02:55,600 --> 05:02:59,640 didn't and I grew up here when school here been here all my life fourth 3351 05:02:59,640 --> 05:03:06,840 generation I I'm not against growth I'm totally for it but I'm for more planned 3352 05:03:06,840 --> 05:03:11,480 growth where we look at it before we do but don't put that wagon in front of 3353 05:03:11,480 --> 05:03:15,960 that horse let's work put that horse around the front the streets out in our 3354 05:03:15,960 --> 05:03:19,740 area like they said they're going to expand Hickory Creek Road from Creekdale 3355 05:03:19,740 --> 05:03:24,600 back that will be good but from Creekdale I mean from Creekdale back 3356 05:03:24,600 --> 05:03:27,280 west I don't what you're going to do you got a creek to cross you're going to 3357 05:03:27,280 --> 05:03:31,520 build an enormous bridge I farm that land down in the creek it's in the flood 3358 05:03:31,520 --> 05:03:34,680 plain a lot of that's in the flood I like what they're going to do with this 3359 05:03:34,680 --> 05:03:39,300 and keeping a lot of that green space I think that's very very admirable but just 3360 05:03:39,300 --> 05:03:43,400 think about the infrastructure with the streets and what we have to deal with 3361 05:03:43,400 --> 05:03:48,760 out there as far as the traffic the trash the water overflows but I'm not 3362 05:03:48,760 --> 05:03:51,960 totally opposed to them I think they've got a good plan I look forward to seeing 3363 05:03:51,960 --> 05:03:54,940 is move along think about us stakeholders out there in that 3364 05:03:54,940 --> 05:03:59,380 comprehensive plan include some of us in that plan bring some of us to the table 3365 05:03:59,380 --> 05:04:04,640 let us help you plan that future for those rural areas that previous one that 3366 05:04:04,640 --> 05:04:08,060 was ahead of us I understood where those people were coming from they had no say 3367 05:04:08,060 --> 05:04:11,880 so you know we've none of us had any say so over the years about what city did 3368 05:04:11,880 --> 05:04:16,360 my grandfather told me one time it's coming it'll be here and it is it's 3369 05:04:16,360 --> 05:04:20,080 there now but you know we'd like to be a part of the planning of it thank you 3370 05:04:20,080 --> 05:04:23,320 thank you very much 3371 05:04:23,320 --> 05:04:31,920 here's your else thank you chair I just had a quick question sir sorry I was 3372 05:04:31,920 --> 05:04:35,880 just curious if you attended the neighborhood meeting that they had no you 3373 05:04:35,880 --> 05:04:39,560 know what I did not get a notice in the mail I got a certified letter about two 3374 05:04:39,560 --> 05:04:44,280 three weeks ago that's all I've got and in the past with Thistle Hill Ryan ranch 3375 05:04:44,280 --> 05:04:48,360 I received no letters whatsoever so somebody falls down on her job 3376 05:04:48,360 --> 05:04:51,320 occasionally on here because I don't receive a letter but no I didn't tend 3377 05:04:51,320 --> 05:04:54,440 that because I didn't get a letter to the other day my sister who owns part of 3378 05:04:54,440 --> 05:05:00,200 the other property did not receive a letter so well maybe yeah after this 3379 05:05:00,200 --> 05:05:03,760 discussion you can exchange numbers so that you can stay in communication with 3380 05:05:03,760 --> 05:05:09,760 like say I'm not opposed to the to their zoning and the development just want a 3381 05:05:09,760 --> 05:05:12,720 city to look a little further into the streets and infrastructure that we got 3382 05:05:12,720 --> 05:05:17,120 out there because it cannot accommodate much more traffic out there right now 3383 05:05:17,120 --> 05:05:25,720 so I hope I answered your question thank you I think as a point ETHJ wouldn't 3384 05:05:25,720 --> 05:05:29,960 have received any letters previously now that he's annexed he'll be on the mail 3385 05:05:29,960 --> 05:05:42,320 endless this is a public hearing anyone wishing to speak may do so good evening 3386 05:05:42,320 --> 05:05:47,520 my name is Patricia Clark I live at 768 Ryan Road and I'm in that I'm the top 3387 05:05:47,520 --> 05:05:55,580 white slit that's undeveloped and Ryan Road can barely cover and handle the 3388 05:05:55,580 --> 05:06:01,120 traffic that we have up there now when my mother was living she gave the 3389 05:06:01,120 --> 05:06:06,600 right-of-way and the sidewalk that takes the children to run run elementary which 3390 05:06:06,600 --> 05:06:13,000 was named after my uncle and we gave that land so I development is great I 3391 05:06:13,000 --> 05:06:18,920 love that part of didn't we just again I think the the card is pulling the horse 3392 05:06:18,920 --> 05:06:24,760 until Ryan Road is able to handle the traffic that it currently has I don't 3393 05:06:24,760 --> 05:06:31,200 see how by enlarging and completing creekside which is the way in and out 3394 05:06:31,200 --> 05:06:35,160 of the other development it's just going to increase the amount of traffic that 3395 05:06:35,160 --> 05:06:42,560 there is and it's it's not going to it's going to be a danger with kids walking 3396 05:06:42,560 --> 05:06:47,160 plus I'm really it was surprised to see that the school district said they could 3397 05:06:47,160 --> 05:06:52,320 handle the schools because the Ryan Elementary School is closed to the people 3398 05:06:52,320 --> 05:06:56,540 that live in the district in the housing development behind them and those 3399 05:06:56,540 --> 05:07:01,320 children are now having to go to Sam Houston elementary so I don't see how 3400 05:07:01,320 --> 05:07:05,680 they think that a new development with that many homes is going to be able to 3401 05:07:05,680 --> 05:07:12,880 fit into it so I'm not opposed to it I also did not get a notice about the 3402 05:07:12,880 --> 05:07:18,160 community meeting I did get a registered letter about this meeting so I 3403 05:07:18,160 --> 05:07:23,560 appreciate that part of it so thank you thank you 3404 05:07:23,560 --> 05:07:35,400 anyone else wishing to speak on this item seeing none I will close the public 3405 05:07:35,400 --> 05:07:39,320 hearing and open it up to the dais for discussion or motion to Commissioner 3406 05:07:39,320 --> 05:07:47,280 Smith I move for approval of this item primarily based upon the fact that just 3407 05:07:47,280 --> 05:07:50,640 like we saw at the last the last project we saw that the biggest issue was that 3408 05:07:50,640 --> 05:07:53,760 trying to push out in the more rural areas and that we first need to focus on 3409 05:07:53,760 --> 05:07:57,300 some of the big infill and this is going to be a good infill project for our city 3410 05:07:57,300 --> 05:08:03,880 so motion I move to approve Commissioner Pernetta I said we have a first and a 3411 05:08:03,880 --> 05:08:11,200 second any discussion so before we call this to a vote I have one point that 3412 05:08:11,200 --> 05:08:17,560 I'm gonna make and it's that I live in this area and I take River Pass and 3413 05:08:17,560 --> 05:08:25,080 Creekdale and Andrew Avenue often from Forest Ridge down to Kroger and all 3414 05:08:25,080 --> 05:08:32,360 that and the expansion of Hickory Creek is only gonna make that pass through and 3415 05:08:32,360 --> 05:08:36,000 cut through through the neighborhood more lucrative to me and I imagine others 3416 05:08:36,000 --> 05:08:42,840 it's it's pretty well traveled but my major concern is increasing that pipe so 3417 05:08:42,840 --> 05:08:46,520 to speak to four lanes and then immediately ending it at the railroad 3418 05:08:46,520 --> 05:08:53,840 tracks is just going to encourage if not promote more traffic through Hickory 3419 05:08:53,840 --> 05:09:00,720 Creek flood area and me personally that is my most despised road in the city and 3420 05:09:00,720 --> 05:09:05,560 evidence of this morning were two kids unnecessarily lost their life on that 3421 05:09:05,560 --> 05:09:10,360 ridiculously dangerous Street I decided prompting one more road one more car on 3422 05:09:10,360 --> 05:09:16,120 the road anywhere near that so until the city can definitively determine how to 3423 05:09:16,120 --> 05:09:21,640 get rid of that Street being driven on I'm just gonna have an issue approving 3424 05:09:21,640 --> 05:09:25,960 this project it looks beautiful I'm all for cluster development I just in my 3425 05:09:25,960 --> 05:09:32,360 heart cannot put put any more cars on the road until Hickory Creek's better 3426 05:09:32,360 --> 05:09:38,680 solved so with that I see any other discussions I will put the vote to the 3427 05:09:38,680 --> 05:09:40,880 board 3428 05:09:40,880 --> 05:09:57,120 the motion to approve carries five to congratulations the next item for 3429 05:09:57,120 --> 05:10:04,340 business is item 5c z 18 - 0 0 2 3 I will open the public hearing and call Julie 3430 05:10:04,340 --> 05:10:07,080 for presentation 3431 05:10:17,040 --> 05:10:30,680 right okay this is I'm Julie Wyatt I just want to go on the record that 3432 05:10:30,680 --> 05:10:34,200 Commissioner Cole is recusing himself inside him so he's gonna leave okay the 3433 05:10:34,200 --> 05:10:41,200 room we'll invite him back to close thank you so I'm Julie Wyatt senior 3434 05:10:41,200 --> 05:10:46,400 planner with the city of Denton and I am presenting z 1823 so the request before 3435 05:10:46,400 --> 05:10:52,120 you is to consider a rezoning from regional center commercial downtown and 3436 05:10:52,120 --> 05:10:57,760 regional center regional center commercial neighborhood to employment 3437 05:10:57,760 --> 05:11:06,000 center industrial on a total of 17 or eight 16 acres I'm sorry the subject 3438 05:11:06,000 --> 05:11:11,200 property is located on the northwest side of town it's situated between a 3439 05:11:11,200 --> 05:11:19,600 railroad corridor as well as the I-35 highway north of University um here's a 3440 05:11:19,600 --> 05:11:24,800 map of the current zoning so half of the subject property has a zoning designation 3441 05:11:24,800 --> 05:11:30,080 of RCC in that's that regional center commercial neighborhood and then the 3442 05:11:30,080 --> 05:11:36,720 southern half of the tract has the RCC D so it's a total of 16 acres the 3443 05:11:36,720 --> 05:11:43,900 surrounding zoning pattern includes ECI to the east across the street of this 3444 05:11:43,900 --> 05:11:48,360 from the subject property we've got ICG to the south that's one of our industrial 3445 05:11:48,360 --> 05:11:54,000 zoning districts our seed CD a little further to the south to the west of the 3446 05:11:54,000 --> 05:11:58,000 subject property as it is a neighborhood and that has the NR to zoning 3447 05:11:58,000 --> 05:12:01,600 designation and then across the highway you're probably familiar with the razor 3448 05:12:01,600 --> 05:12:05,900 ranch and there's a lot of commercial development across the highway the 3449 05:12:05,900 --> 05:12:10,520 proposed rezoning is to just extend that existing ECI that's across the street 3450 05:12:10,520 --> 05:12:16,340 and take in the subject property so this is a proposed concept plan they're 3451 05:12:16,340 --> 05:12:22,760 really looking at a storage use they're looking at at at truck storage and this 3452 05:12:22,760 --> 05:12:27,280 is not a final plan this is really just a kind of a concept for you to see what 3453 05:12:27,280 --> 05:12:31,080 they are proposing if the zoning were approved they could develop with any of 3454 05:12:31,080 --> 05:12:36,120 the uses permitted within ECI at the scale that's permitted in ECI so keep 3455 05:12:36,120 --> 05:12:41,080 that in mind as as you're thinking about this case just to take a look a little 3456 05:12:41,080 --> 05:12:47,240 closely at this concept plan this is the southern portion of the tract there are 3457 05:12:47,240 --> 05:12:51,760 no changes currently proposed for this this is it's two commercial buildings 3458 05:12:51,760 --> 05:12:56,600 and they have tenants in it the proposed development is really for that northern 3459 05:12:56,600 --> 05:13:00,400 tract there is a kind of a regional detention pond several tracks take 3460 05:13:00,400 --> 05:13:05,080 advantage of this detention as as they're proposing they're not proposing 3461 05:13:05,080 --> 05:13:10,640 any changes to that drainage pattern the criteria for approval are in sub 3462 05:13:10,640 --> 05:13:14,160 chapter 3 of the Denton development code and that is does it conform with the 3463 05:13:14,160 --> 05:13:18,640 future land use map and didn't plan 2030 and are there adequate public facilities 3464 05:13:18,640 --> 05:13:23,840 to serve the development so first we'll take a look at Denton plan 2030 the 3465 05:13:23,840 --> 05:13:27,800 subject property is and within a business innovation future land use 3466 05:13:27,800 --> 05:13:32,640 designation is as you're well aware that is for those well-planned large-scale 3467 05:13:32,640 --> 05:13:39,040 employment uses and the supporting retail hotels residential those types 3468 05:13:39,040 --> 05:13:43,320 of commercial uses a place where somebody could get lunch or work or live 3469 05:13:43,320 --> 05:13:50,600 close to where they work I see ECI is one of those zoning districts that that 3470 05:13:50,600 --> 05:13:54,280 really conforms well to the business innovation future land use because it 3471 05:13:54,280 --> 05:14:00,600 does allow some of those industrial in office uses to to support the commercial 3472 05:14:00,600 --> 05:14:05,120 intent of business innovation or the employment intent of business innovation 3473 05:14:05,120 --> 05:14:09,400 but it also allows a broad array of commercial uses to allow that 3474 05:14:09,400 --> 05:14:16,240 supporting development to occur transportation that the applicant did do 3475 05:14:16,240 --> 05:14:22,280 a trip generation analysis on the site and and due to their proposed use of 3476 05:14:22,280 --> 05:14:26,600 storage it would not generate a whole lot of traffic and they're proposing 3477 05:14:26,600 --> 05:14:32,480 they're anticipating about 95 trips within a 24-hour weekday peak hour of 3478 05:14:32,480 --> 05:14:37,880 20 trips so due to that volume of trips they wouldn't it wouldn't trigger a full 3479 05:14:37,880 --> 05:14:43,560 TIA you generally have to get to a thousand trips before you do a full TIA 3480 05:14:43,560 --> 05:14:49,960 it is nearby to I-35 and West University so there's a lot of access to the site 3481 05:14:49,960 --> 05:14:53,680 however it doesn't connect to the neighborhoods to the West and that was 3482 05:14:53,680 --> 05:14:57,600 something that was really important to us as we looked at this case is that 3483 05:14:57,600 --> 05:15:01,880 railroad corridor really does sort of cut off this site from that neighborhood 3484 05:15:01,880 --> 05:15:06,560 and I think that's important when we want to be sensitive to our neighborhoods 3485 05:15:06,560 --> 05:15:11,920 other findings we considered was that this was a logical continuation of the 3486 05:15:11,920 --> 05:15:16,960 surrounding zoning and land use pattern the existing land uses surrounding the 3487 05:15:16,960 --> 05:15:20,800 subject property include commercial development along I-35 where they want 3488 05:15:20,800 --> 05:15:27,000 that visibility from a lot of traffic kind of transitioning to more employment 3489 05:15:27,000 --> 05:15:33,000 uses as you get further off of I-35 so between that railroad corridor and 35 3490 05:15:33,000 --> 05:15:38,040 you've got that that blend of commercial and employment uses so this proposed 3491 05:15:38,040 --> 05:15:43,180 zoning district really does fit well within that existing pattern but once 3492 05:15:43,180 --> 05:15:46,800 again we want to be sensitive to that relationship to the nearby residential 3493 05:15:46,800 --> 05:15:51,760 area so once again that physical separation with that railroad addition 3494 05:15:51,760 --> 05:15:58,480 that railroad is is is is elevated so that so that it does sort of mute those 3495 05:15:58,480 --> 05:16:03,200 those visual impacts of any development on the site industrial uses that are 3496 05:16:03,200 --> 05:16:08,160 embedded within ECI are generally our lower impact so they wouldn't be heavy 3497 05:16:08,160 --> 05:16:13,320 industrial those types of uses that create a lot of pollutants or those those 3498 05:16:13,320 --> 05:16:19,480 off-site impacts the the proposed zoning district and the existing zoning 3499 05:16:19,480 --> 05:16:23,320 districts or the current zoning district have comparable development scales so 3500 05:16:23,320 --> 05:16:28,840 that a development on the site visually would would be similar to to for those 3501 05:16:28,840 --> 05:16:33,400 adjoining properties and then design standards within sub chapter 13 3502 05:16:33,400 --> 05:16:37,400 particularly the tree canopy right now the site doesn't have a lot of trees on 3503 05:16:37,400 --> 05:16:41,640 it but when it develops it will be required to comply with all the site 3504 05:16:41,640 --> 05:16:47,600 design requirements and one of those is planning 30% tree canopy so so those are 3505 05:16:47,600 --> 05:16:54,240 important factors to consider so just to briefly look at the current uses the 3506 05:16:54,240 --> 05:16:57,160 probably the most important thing is that under current zoning there are 3507 05:16:57,160 --> 05:17:03,080 residential uses permitted things like townhomes multi-family with an SUP ECI 3508 05:17:03,080 --> 05:17:06,720 kind of takes out those residential uses it really is for those employment and 3509 05:17:06,720 --> 05:17:13,640 commercial developments they all of those zoning districts do have certain 3510 05:17:13,640 --> 05:17:18,080 commercial uses that they permit they're a little variation but they do have a 3511 05:17:18,080 --> 05:17:23,880 variety of commercial uses ECI does fold in more industrial uses but once again 3512 05:17:23,880 --> 05:17:29,240 those are some of those lower impact the light industrial or the the warehousing 3513 05:17:29,240 --> 05:17:35,640 distribution centers so things that create fewer off-site impacts general 3514 05:17:35,640 --> 05:17:39,620 regulations once again is that development scale it's pretty comparable 3515 05:17:39,620 --> 05:17:45,320 across those zoning districts RCCD does allow buildings to be a hundred feet ECI 3516 05:17:45,320 --> 05:17:50,520 only allows a 65 feet so that actually would reduce the building height 3517 05:17:50,520 --> 05:17:54,600 notification was sent out and the applicant did have a neighborhood 3518 05:17:54,600 --> 05:18:00,440 meeting there were we received five letters in opposition and I apologize I 3519 05:18:00,440 --> 05:18:05,900 did not give you one of them or some some writing or some email that I 3520 05:18:05,900 --> 05:18:12,200 received in work session so Kathy passed it out earlier so sorry about that but 3521 05:18:12,200 --> 05:18:18,560 with with where the 200 foot boundary is very little of that opposition actually 3522 05:18:18,560 --> 05:18:23,680 counted toward the that percentage you know that that we look at when looking at 3523 05:18:23,680 --> 05:18:28,600 a supermajority so there's only 1% opposition within that 200 foot boundary 3524 05:18:28,600 --> 05:18:33,400 so based upon the criteria for approval the future land use as well as the public 3525 05:18:33,400 --> 05:18:37,400 facility staff does recommend approval of the request and I will stand for any 3526 05:18:37,400 --> 05:18:39,680 questions thank you Julie we do have a question 3527 05:18:39,680 --> 05:18:44,400 commissioner Pernetta so I just wanted to make sure that we recapped anything 3528 05:18:44,400 --> 05:18:48,640 for an any because I saw majority the concerns were traffic concerns from 3529 05:18:48,640 --> 05:18:53,040 neighbors any traffic that comes out of that would be minimal and it would be 3530 05:18:53,040 --> 05:19:00,240 going out to the opposite side toward 35 along the access road and there was 3531 05:19:00,240 --> 05:19:05,360 concerns about lights or whatever based on I don't know which slide it was but 3532 05:19:05,360 --> 05:19:13,640 it looked like there was a mock-up with showing there so proposed I guess 3533 05:19:13,640 --> 05:19:17,880 structure would be more toward the east and you have some separation between 3534 05:19:17,880 --> 05:19:23,080 that and you said the tracks were raised they are I don't I don't know how tall 3535 05:19:23,080 --> 05:19:27,520 but they are raised probably ten feet it's there there is some some great 3536 05:19:27,520 --> 05:19:30,280 change there with the railroad so there'd be a barrier there that kind of 3537 05:19:30,280 --> 05:19:38,600 natural okay cool that's all I really had thanks thanks I don't see any other 3538 05:19:38,600 --> 05:19:42,040 questions thank you this is a public hearing if you're wishing to speak we 3539 05:19:42,040 --> 05:19:46,200 just ask that you fill out a card the first individual will be the applicant 3540 05:19:46,200 --> 05:19:53,280 and as Amy said you have ten minutes good evening commissioners I promise not 3541 05:19:53,280 --> 05:19:58,880 to take ten minutes I do have a brief presentation for you I'm Amy visit with 3542 05:19:58,880 --> 05:20:06,200 Northbridge consultants 212 South Elm Denton 76201 I'd like to start by 3543 05:20:06,200 --> 05:20:10,840 clearing clarifying a question that came up during the work session which was is 3544 05:20:10,840 --> 05:20:15,600 the person is the applicant also going to be the person that owns and develops 3545 05:20:15,600 --> 05:20:20,720 the property in the future and I represent the owner of 2401 Worthington 3546 05:20:20,720 --> 05:20:24,840 today which is the southern half of the property that has already developed with 3547 05:20:24,840 --> 05:20:28,020 two commercial buildings that I'll show you a little more detail on that in a 3548 05:20:28,020 --> 05:20:31,760 moment they currently have 2501 Worthington in 3549 05:20:31,760 --> 05:20:38,200 contract with the intent to develop and own it and operate it into the future I 3550 05:20:38,200 --> 05:20:42,880 want to start by just giving you a brief overview of what's already on the ground 3551 05:20:42,880 --> 05:20:47,660 and when we did have a neighborhood meeting there were some misunderstandings 3552 05:20:47,660 --> 05:20:52,840 or that that we were building this from scratch and so I want to make it clear 3553 05:20:52,840 --> 05:20:58,840 that 2401 Worthington is existing today it is two multi-tenant warehouses on 3554 05:20:58,840 --> 05:21:04,440 roughly eight and a half acres and each warehouse is over 30,000 square feet and 3555 05:21:04,440 --> 05:21:10,680 there is a hundred roughly vehicle parking spaces and 50 semi truck 3556 05:21:10,680 --> 05:21:17,040 parking spaces this was built in 2007 here's a picture of it in case you'd 3557 05:21:17,040 --> 05:21:22,920 like to see what it looks like the expansion which both of these properties 3558 05:21:22,920 --> 05:21:26,400 are contemplated in the zoning just because we felt like it was important to 3559 05:21:26,400 --> 05:21:31,640 present a cohesive development so that you can see the big picture and rezone 3560 05:21:31,640 --> 05:21:40,320 the entire property since it is intended to be uses that are complimentary to each 3561 05:21:40,320 --> 05:21:45,880 other so and the the concept plan that Julie had up on the screen is we've 3562 05:21:45,880 --> 05:21:50,360 we've modified it slightly so I want to point that out and we do want to expand 3563 05:21:50,360 --> 05:21:55,280 the use to the north and it will be would be primarily truck parking and 84 3564 05:21:55,280 --> 05:21:59,240 spaces this would be on a flex base so it would be pervious so it would have 3565 05:21:59,240 --> 05:22:06,960 minimal impact on drainage and 11 vehicular parking spaces which would 3566 05:22:06,960 --> 05:22:11,240 service the a small warehouse building which would be located on the far 3567 05:22:11,240 --> 05:22:16,680 northeast corner of the property and that would be a tenant space as well that 3568 05:22:16,680 --> 05:22:21,560 would be similar to those to the south and the purpose for this development is 3569 05:22:21,560 --> 05:22:27,360 really that we see the demand in the transportation logistics cluster that 3570 05:22:27,360 --> 05:22:33,320 exists in Denton and specifically I'll point out Peter built produces up to a 3571 05:22:33,320 --> 05:22:38,000 hundred and fifty new semi trucks a day there are many vendors and suppliers who 3572 05:22:38,000 --> 05:22:42,200 have to move those trucks out of Denton and across the country and they often 3573 05:22:42,200 --> 05:22:46,720 have to be staged and stored for a certain amount of time before you know 3574 05:22:46,720 --> 05:22:50,600 they're stacked and then they're hauled out all at once or a number of them at a 3575 05:22:50,600 --> 05:22:57,160 time and what what we found is that it's very difficult for those transporters to 3576 05:22:57,160 --> 05:23:02,080 find space to park those trucks today that's an appropriately located space 3577 05:23:02,080 --> 05:23:07,400 and we feel like this is appropriate with the surrounding industrial uses we 3578 05:23:07,400 --> 05:23:12,260 do anticipate anticipate that there will be some single tenant users as well that 3579 05:23:12,260 --> 05:23:18,640 park their trucks there when they're not on a route we did hold a neighborhood 3580 05:23:18,640 --> 05:23:23,040 meeting when Julie mailed out the 500 foot courtesy notifications she gave me 3581 05:23:23,040 --> 05:23:27,720 a call and because a few of the residents and ranch estates were notified and she 3582 05:23:27,720 --> 05:23:32,240 had heard some concerns from them so and we went ahead and mailed out an 3583 05:23:32,240 --> 05:23:36,920 invitation to everybody within ranch estates and that was our intent anyway 3584 05:23:36,920 --> 05:23:41,640 we went property by property in CAD to make sure that we pulled every address 3585 05:23:41,640 --> 05:23:46,680 and we held a come-and-go neighborhood meeting and we had three in attendance 3586 05:23:46,680 --> 05:23:50,800 although they were clear to us that they were representing multiple neighbors and 3587 05:23:50,800 --> 05:23:58,680 and then I had an additional four phone calls and or emails and as well what we 3588 05:23:58,680 --> 05:24:01,480 really heard from the neighborhood meeting I want to try to address 3589 05:24:01,480 --> 05:24:07,040 directly what we heard and and how we want to be respectful of the the 3590 05:24:07,040 --> 05:24:12,200 neighboring single-family neighborhood and we heard that they have concerns 3591 05:24:12,200 --> 05:24:17,480 about the drainage the noise and visibility of the site and encroachment 3592 05:24:17,480 --> 05:24:20,880 in general on their neighborhood by industrial and commercial properties 3593 05:24:20,880 --> 05:24:27,000 and which is not necessarily specific to this project but we wanted to hear we 3594 05:24:27,000 --> 05:24:31,520 heard it and understood that to be a concern of theirs and then mobility as 3595 05:24:31,520 --> 05:24:37,120 well specifically Windsor Drive and they had heard that the Windsor Drive would 3596 05:24:37,120 --> 05:24:41,720 come underneath I-35 in the future and potentially tie directly into their 3597 05:24:41,720 --> 05:24:46,080 neighborhood and they were concerned about how that would open up access from 3598 05:24:46,080 --> 05:24:51,840 our site to the west and I do want to point out here I've got the zoning map 3599 05:24:51,840 --> 05:24:57,560 up here the Ranch Estates is a part of that NR2 zoning designation there's a 3600 05:24:57,560 --> 05:25:03,200 very clear barrier there in terms of zoning at the railroad site that I do 3601 05:25:03,200 --> 05:25:08,400 think serves as a protection from encroachment from from the east of that 3602 05:25:08,400 --> 05:25:12,800 property in addition as you saw with the future land use plan it is intended to 3603 05:25:12,800 --> 05:25:18,400 remain low-density residential into the future Windsor Drive we obviously have no 3604 05:25:18,400 --> 05:25:23,640 control over with our project but we will state for the record that we don't 3605 05:25:23,640 --> 05:25:28,520 want Windsor Drive to connect to their neighborhood and have no need for any 3606 05:25:28,520 --> 05:25:33,360 connectivity going west over the railroad tracks also want to talk about 3607 05:25:33,360 --> 05:25:40,480 their concerns regarding drainage as well as their concerns regarding nuisance 3608 05:25:40,480 --> 05:25:45,520 in terms of noise and visibility so I'll address drainage first as Julie 3609 05:25:45,520 --> 05:25:49,840 mentioned there is an existing regional detention pond on our site that we're 3610 05:25:49,840 --> 05:25:54,280 looking at expanding onto and we can't get anywhere near that so we're gonna be 3611 05:25:54,280 --> 05:26:00,820 hundreds of feet from the railroad and much less from the neighborhood and we 3612 05:26:00,820 --> 05:26:05,480 did visit with some neighbors about what would make them more comfortable with a 3613 05:26:05,480 --> 05:26:11,920 project as it relates to noise and visibility and we offered to plant 3614 05:26:11,920 --> 05:26:17,520 trees along the backside of the site and and in order to memorialize that the 3615 05:26:17,520 --> 05:26:24,440 developer it will commit to a type C landscape buffer which is six trees and 3616 05:26:24,440 --> 05:26:32,000 25 shrubs every hundred feet along the backside of 2501 the railroad does 3617 05:26:32,000 --> 05:26:39,280 create a very significant visual buffer as well and it's while standing from 3618 05:26:39,280 --> 05:26:44,120 from the road over here Marshall Road and you really can't see anything except 3619 05:26:44,120 --> 05:26:48,720 greenery unless it's winter which then you may be able to see the top of a 3620 05:26:48,720 --> 05:26:54,280 building that is all I have and I'd be happy to answer any questions we do have 3621 05:26:54,280 --> 05:27:01,920 one question to mr. Beck thank you chair thanks so there's no new warehousing in 3622 05:27:01,920 --> 05:27:05,880 this development you're just developing the parking for the trucks that utilize 3623 05:27:05,880 --> 05:27:10,080 the warehousing that's already there we do intend to put a small building in the 3624 05:27:10,080 --> 05:27:14,600 front here the northeast it's roughly 6,000 square feet okay and that is 3625 05:27:14,600 --> 05:27:21,300 primarily because the the storage use of truck parking is an accessory use and we 3626 05:27:21,300 --> 05:27:26,000 need to have a primary use on the actual lot okay these trucks will be parked 3627 05:27:26,000 --> 05:27:34,360 there for a few hours to a few days days at a time okay would there be some of 3628 05:27:34,360 --> 05:27:38,000 these truckers live out of their trucks so would there be situations where they 3629 05:27:38,000 --> 05:27:41,680 park their truck and run their engine for a while to keep warm and is there 3630 05:27:41,680 --> 05:27:47,120 would that be allowed and if it is I'm gonna defer to the developer and 3631 05:27:47,120 --> 05:27:51,280 property owner on that so that they can speak to how they address it on the 3632 05:27:51,280 --> 05:27:55,980 existing property where there's 50 truck parking spaces in the back today so they 3633 05:27:55,980 --> 05:28:00,480 already and they have some experience in that and they already have some okay I 3634 05:28:00,480 --> 05:28:04,880 wouldn't see it being a big issue there might be a few but I'm just curious if 3635 05:28:04,880 --> 05:28:08,760 that was something they are here and can speak to that question if you'd like 3636 05:28:08,760 --> 05:28:16,160 all right thank you Chris relis thank you chair thanks Amy question the only 3637 05:28:16,160 --> 05:28:21,400 thing I I'm concerned with with the zoning change is one item that it opens 3638 05:28:21,400 --> 05:28:25,840 up what this can develop down the road not saying that you would do this but 3639 05:28:25,840 --> 05:28:30,020 it opens it up and that's an electric substation is there a would you be 3640 05:28:30,020 --> 05:28:34,960 willing to eliminate that with approval of this I am going to defer to the 3641 05:28:34,960 --> 05:28:37,840 property owner on that as well but I'll let them answer that question for you 3642 05:28:37,840 --> 05:28:43,240 okay I appreciate that thanks there's other questions for you appreciate that 3643 05:28:43,240 --> 05:28:49,960 all right thank you we have several cards to to complete and then we might 3644 05:28:49,960 --> 05:28:53,960 circle back backgrounds to some of the commissioners requests of the developer 3645 05:28:53,960 --> 05:29:08,440 first card I have is Rebecca height there's two names listed here my name is 3646 05:29:08,440 --> 05:29:15,480 Dan height I live at 3800 Hampton Road I did not receive the invite to come to 3647 05:29:15,480 --> 05:29:20,040 the meeting and I understand why because her red circle excludes me I'm on the 3648 05:29:20,040 --> 05:29:23,760 north side of that red circle at the back of the subdivision and I'm at the 3649 05:29:23,760 --> 05:29:28,840 very peak of the triangle where their their plan comes down to and they also 3650 05:29:28,840 --> 05:29:33,360 excluded several other homes that are back there as well and so this is we 3651 05:29:33,360 --> 05:29:38,640 heard about it when we got the card so quickly I'll say because I had to be 3652 05:29:38,640 --> 05:29:44,240 quick right so 25 years I've been driving by Ranch Estates I've always 3653 05:29:44,240 --> 05:29:48,680 dreamed of living in Ranch Estates several years ago I finally got the money 3654 05:29:48,680 --> 05:29:53,320 together and I bought a house in Ranch Estates it's been kind of a series of 3655 05:29:53,320 --> 05:29:58,280 unfortunate events since that time the city approved a house trailer being 3656 05:29:58,280 --> 05:30:01,480 planted right in the middle of our subdivision text dot took away our turn 3657 05:30:01,480 --> 05:30:06,400 lanes got one of our residents killed almost got me killed exiting the 3658 05:30:06,400 --> 05:30:14,240 subdivision with no notice that 380 had been opened up it's been trying right 3659 05:30:14,240 --> 05:30:19,560 now that area that she's talking about you can see it very clearly yes the 3660 05:30:19,560 --> 05:30:24,440 train track is elevated their property is elevated higher so she may have stood 3661 05:30:24,440 --> 05:30:28,920 down there once I stand down there all the time those lights that come on from 3662 05:30:28,920 --> 05:30:34,040 that property are blinding to our side over there the noise that comes from one 3663 05:30:34,040 --> 05:30:39,080 of the whatever plant that is the booms that happen all night throughout the 3664 05:30:39,080 --> 05:30:44,960 night and wake you up it's already bad it's already bad so now we're going to 3665 05:30:44,960 --> 05:30:51,680 have a I'm assuming a facility that's running 24/7 with the same kind of noise 3666 05:30:51,680 --> 05:30:58,360 or worse noise maybe more lights so I'll just I'll hit each one of those points I 3667 05:30:58,360 --> 05:31:03,520 am definitely a fan of progress I get that area over there somebody owns that 3668 05:31:03,520 --> 05:31:10,480 wants to develop it and what their plan is looks pretty good but we do have some 3669 05:31:10,480 --> 05:31:15,640 concerns she said there's no connection I believe but there is a plan connection 3670 05:31:15,640 --> 05:31:20,120 which I found out about through this process of researching this that the 3671 05:31:20,120 --> 05:31:25,360 plan connection goes through my house so another part of unfortunate events for 3672 05:31:25,360 --> 05:31:33,800 me but is that true so we can definitely verify that okay so there is a plan 3673 05:31:33,800 --> 05:31:37,680 connection and the the person that's developing it acknowledged that before 3674 05:31:37,680 --> 05:31:40,960 the meeting that absolutely if that comes through they're excited to use that 3675 05:31:40,960 --> 05:31:44,720 right through the middle of our subdivision so here come the 18 3676 05:31:44,720 --> 05:31:48,240 wheelers through our subdivision I appreciated your question I think that 3677 05:31:48,240 --> 05:31:51,660 was one I hadn't thought about them running those trucks throughout the 3678 05:31:51,660 --> 05:31:55,440 night but we missed the neighborhood meeting the building is a higher 3679 05:31:55,440 --> 05:31:59,800 elevation than the tracks pointed at us we already have drainage problems in our 3680 05:31:59,800 --> 05:32:04,480 subdivision so I'm hoping that maybe they're going to improve their drainage 3681 05:32:04,480 --> 05:32:08,120 so that we don't get more drainage down in the subdivision because we already do 3682 05:32:08,120 --> 05:32:13,760 have a lot of problems the noise the light the hours of operation they sit in 3683 05:32:13,760 --> 05:32:18,600 there during their 24-hour day they're gonna have this many vehicles right does 3684 05:32:18,600 --> 05:32:24,480 that mean it is a 24-hour operation so I would like if I'm gonna ask for 3685 05:32:24,480 --> 05:32:29,560 something I would like there to be some consideration I get that area over there 3686 05:32:29,560 --> 05:32:36,120 I get this this plan fits that area but think about us and I probably shouldn't 3687 05:32:36,120 --> 05:32:39,840 even be the right one speaking because I'm a newbie to the subdivision I'm not 3688 05:32:39,840 --> 05:32:45,280 the 50-year residents that have lived there all these years but maybe limiting 3689 05:32:45,280 --> 05:32:49,360 the hours of operation limiting the noise limiting the lights limiting 3690 05:32:49,360 --> 05:32:54,400 something that will affect us long term and definitely if there's a future road 3691 05:32:54,400 --> 05:33:00,480 planned through there how's that gonna affect us it's gonna be gonna be pretty 3692 05:33:00,480 --> 05:33:04,520 tough so just considerations on those points and we have a couple questions 3693 05:33:04,520 --> 05:33:08,160 for you please yeah Christian back thank you chair thank you mr. height for your 3694 05:33:08,160 --> 05:33:12,280 presentation a couple quick questions these lights are talking about it do 3695 05:33:12,280 --> 05:33:16,200 they come from that warehouse they do not come from that warehouse over there 3696 05:33:16,200 --> 05:33:21,040 the other night and so they have their existing warehouse there's one setting 3697 05:33:21,040 --> 05:33:25,740 just to the south of it and the lights are on that building okay so but I assume 3698 05:33:25,740 --> 05:33:29,960 if they're building a big trucking yard it's got to be well lit you can't have 3699 05:33:29,960 --> 05:33:33,480 millions of dollars worth of trucking equipment out there without and I'm sure 3700 05:33:33,480 --> 05:33:38,160 it will be but we do have requirements and this could be something that you 3701 05:33:38,160 --> 05:33:41,280 could probably get with the city on so I don't want to go there but there are 3702 05:33:41,280 --> 05:33:45,280 restrictions on light impacting neighborhood area so I definitely check 3703 05:33:45,280 --> 05:33:49,000 on that and when this development goes up I'm sure Amy's aware of it that the 3704 05:33:49,000 --> 05:33:56,120 lights can't you know have a negative impact but drainage I again don't see 3705 05:33:56,120 --> 05:34:00,800 how drainage from that area could impact Regis state you do have that railroad 3706 05:34:00,800 --> 05:34:05,840 track that's elevated so are you saying that drainage is coming from the 3707 05:34:05,840 --> 05:34:08,920 commercial area on the other side of the railroad track I'll have to I'll have to 3708 05:34:08,920 --> 05:34:12,960 verify that okay we do get a lot of drainage I don't I have never gone up 3709 05:34:12,960 --> 05:34:16,880 into those fields to see where it gets through okay but it does come underneath 3710 05:34:16,880 --> 05:34:21,120 the railroad track further to the north into the back of my property but not from 3711 05:34:21,120 --> 05:34:25,400 this not from the facility okay but I'm assuming that property being at that 3712 05:34:25,400 --> 05:34:29,200 elevation that water has to come our direction but maybe it's diverted to the 3713 05:34:29,200 --> 05:34:35,360 south before it gets down to see the topography I have to I have a check and 3714 05:34:35,360 --> 05:34:40,840 I believe I think you misquoted Amy they have nothing to do with Windsor Drive 3715 05:34:40,840 --> 05:34:43,480 coming through there and I think that's the road you think about yes they 3716 05:34:43,480 --> 05:34:47,880 weren't pushing for that and they don't anticipate using that if I understood her 3717 05:34:47,880 --> 05:34:51,720 correctly but yes I understand your concern I would be concerned too right 3718 05:34:51,720 --> 05:34:55,480 through finding out about this and doing the research I discovered the future 3719 05:34:55,480 --> 05:35:01,680 plan for the roads definitely confront that when it comes through thank you so 3720 05:35:01,680 --> 05:35:09,880 much thank you thank you and Dan I appreciate your pain this card is filled 3721 05:35:09,880 --> 05:35:14,400 actually Rebecca height and Dan it's just like a Dan is an afterthought so 3722 05:35:14,400 --> 05:35:20,040 Rebecca height I feel you but next up is Rebecca height if you're wanting to 3723 05:35:20,040 --> 05:35:22,320 speak 3724 05:35:22,320 --> 05:35:30,440 thank you for your time I'll be brief one thing I do want to touch base on is 3725 05:35:30,440 --> 05:35:34,480 there's semi trucks that are coming through all the time and they're coming 3726 05:35:34,480 --> 05:35:37,960 we're right on 380 and with the redevelopment of the construction we 3727 05:35:37,960 --> 05:35:42,280 have rock haulers that come through very aggressively and then we have the freight 3728 05:35:42,280 --> 05:35:46,080 trucks coming from the opposite side of the interstate where the industrial side 3729 05:35:46,080 --> 05:35:50,600 is and they often get lost coming into our subdivision and that's one thing 3730 05:35:50,600 --> 05:35:55,680 that I am concerned about because this is going to be moving trucks and it is 3731 05:35:55,680 --> 05:35:59,920 going to be freight so how is this going to take place and what happens when they 3732 05:35:59,920 --> 05:36:04,400 get lost in our subdivision we have a one well it's a two-lane road with no 3733 05:36:04,400 --> 05:36:08,200 center stripe oftentimes they get stuck on our dead-end road because you'll 3734 05:36:08,200 --> 05:36:12,200 notice on the red square we're the house with the pool and it's a dead-end road 3735 05:36:12,200 --> 05:36:16,560 so oftentimes people get stuck on that they back up they go through our yard 3736 05:36:16,560 --> 05:36:22,240 they tear up our yard it's not safe it's really not safe when we try to exit off 3737 05:36:22,240 --> 05:36:27,960 of our subdivision on to 380 we're fighting the semi trucks and then I'm 3738 05:36:27,960 --> 05:36:32,360 curious how are they going to get out of their area have you guys been in that 3739 05:36:32,360 --> 05:36:38,440 area where the hotels are and where the industrial areas how are they going to 3740 05:36:38,440 --> 05:36:42,480 have the mobility to come in and out and where is that flow of traffic going to 3741 05:36:42,480 --> 05:36:46,480 come in and out so they're going to be accessing onto the access road where you 3742 05:36:46,480 --> 05:36:50,400 have people coming in already where it's already backing up right there to get 3743 05:36:50,400 --> 05:36:55,880 back on 35 but then if they come down 380 and they try to cross over where QT is 3744 05:36:55,880 --> 05:37:01,680 to get on to Windsor that's going to be backed up where is the in and out going 3745 05:37:01,680 --> 05:37:07,040 to be it's going to create massive traffic jams so that's just one thing I 3746 05:37:07,040 --> 05:37:10,680 would like you to consider of what's going on in addition to the noise and 3747 05:37:10,680 --> 05:37:14,560 the trucks and just overall I'm concerned about our safety to be honest 3748 05:37:14,560 --> 05:37:19,640 with you and that's all thank you thank you very much 3749 05:37:19,640 --> 05:37:27,880 the next card I have is Ann Smith 3750 05:37:31,680 --> 05:37:44,920 I'm Ann Smith 2013 Cindy Lane so here's the deal you all have it's an exciting 3751 05:37:44,920 --> 05:37:50,280 time in Denton I've been here since 1981 and I remember talking to a lot of 3752 05:37:50,280 --> 05:37:54,680 people saying when will didn't grow when will we get bigger when will we get a 3753 05:37:54,680 --> 05:38:01,360 big restaurant and then we got chilies we're done so anyway the thing is what's 3754 05:38:01,360 --> 05:38:05,440 happening here tonight is we're talking about black and white stuff we're 3755 05:38:05,440 --> 05:38:09,800 talking about zoning we're talking about streets and all that kind of stuff but I 3756 05:38:09,800 --> 05:38:16,560 have the 2030 plan and my name is Ann Smith I'm not Nancy Pelosi I did read 3757 05:38:16,560 --> 05:38:20,400 the 2030 plan right here and I have a few things that I want to point out 3758 05:38:20,400 --> 05:38:25,840 because the main thing here in this book in this plan has pictures of people has 3759 05:38:25,840 --> 05:38:31,960 names of people and it has the zoning people talking about people talking 3760 05:38:31,960 --> 05:38:37,200 about Denton talking about vision and and that's what you guys are your vision 3761 05:38:37,200 --> 05:38:42,440 your visionaries you protect us and everybody here we've been here since 630 3762 05:38:42,440 --> 05:38:48,040 and everybody here has talked about safety and and pulling out onto a road 3763 05:38:48,040 --> 05:38:53,760 and almost getting hit we had an 18 year old just about a month ago you know young 3764 05:38:53,760 --> 05:38:58,880 driver and the light was green at 380 and Cindy Lane and so she starts to pull 3765 05:38:58,880 --> 05:39:05,280 out she gets t-boned in the front not totally at her I mean this is 18 years 3766 05:39:05,280 --> 05:39:10,920 old if it would be your daughter your granddaughter you'd have a stroke we have 3767 05:39:10,920 --> 05:39:17,760 people in Ranch Estates that are elderly and these people we're fighting a lot of 3768 05:39:17,760 --> 05:39:23,720 things in Ranch Estates and these people are becoming very anxious about do we 3769 05:39:23,720 --> 05:39:28,560 have to continue to fight for where we live now another thing that we're doing 3770 05:39:28,560 --> 05:39:34,480 in Ranch Estates we want to die there because it's about $7,500 a month just to 3771 05:39:34,480 --> 05:39:39,000 get into assisted living and most of the people that are elderly own their home 3772 05:39:39,000 --> 05:39:48,240 it's cheaper to die in your home and now even though this isn't part of 0023 what 3773 05:39:48,240 --> 05:39:55,080 we're hearing and I do have a message from one of the council people that I 3774 05:39:55,080 --> 05:40:01,280 emailed and talked to her about the Windsor connection and you see and she 3775 05:40:01,280 --> 05:40:06,160 said I recall the discussion of Windsor so it's not just a figment of our 3776 05:40:06,160 --> 05:40:13,000 imagination and the thing about Windsor is Windsor going across 35 down the 3777 05:40:13,000 --> 05:40:19,080 pasture over the railroad track and it's going to go through their their home and 3778 05:40:19,080 --> 05:40:25,440 Ranch Estates only has four streets and Hampton Road is the east-west street on 3779 05:40:25,440 --> 05:40:30,040 the north side that it's it's not a two lane street it's a one and a half lane 3780 05:40:30,040 --> 05:40:36,880 street and we have no sidewalks and no shoulders so when we take a walk it's in 3781 05:40:36,880 --> 05:40:44,160 the street so the situation is that this development that they're wanting to do 3782 05:40:44,160 --> 05:40:51,680 a rezoning is the trucks are going to be in a pasture and there the trucks can't 3783 05:40:51,680 --> 05:40:58,040 go in a in a pasture without some kind of surface underneath them that's that 3784 05:40:58,040 --> 05:41:05,160 will maintain their integrity so they can get in and out so is it cement or 3785 05:41:05,160 --> 05:41:11,320 is it gravel and we are in a flood zone Ranch Estates is in a flood zone so the 3786 05:41:11,320 --> 05:41:18,660 water is going to come down to us I know that the engineers can create pools of 3787 05:41:18,660 --> 05:41:22,760 water and that kind of thing but you know how water works water will go to 3788 05:41:22,760 --> 05:41:32,320 the lowest point anyway I'd like to close with some words from the 2030 plan 3789 05:41:32,320 --> 05:41:38,880 Denton people say that the top strength in Denton is the character of Denton 3790 05:41:38,880 --> 05:41:43,920 totally agree think about think about we want to be Austin isn't that what I've 3791 05:41:43,920 --> 05:41:49,920 heard we want to be Austin well who do we want to be who do we want to be do 3792 05:41:49,920 --> 05:41:56,520 what character do we want to have oh dang okay so I'll leave you with this 3793 05:41:56,520 --> 05:42:00,920 then you don't get to choose where you're born but you do get to choose 3794 05:42:00,920 --> 05:42:06,400 where you live and we choose to live here everybody in these seats tonight 3795 05:42:06,400 --> 05:42:12,140 choose didn't because we want to serve we want to live and we want to raise our 3796 05:42:12,140 --> 05:42:18,720 families here thank you miss it we we actually have a question 3797 05:42:18,720 --> 05:42:22,760 okay back thank you chair thank you miss Smith for your presentation and your 3798 05:42:22,760 --> 05:42:28,320 passion for the city didn't understand that and I'm you know heard several 3799 05:42:28,320 --> 05:42:33,480 stories since text out widen 380 of the travesty that's on there and affected 3800 05:42:33,480 --> 05:42:38,280 some of the ranch estate homeowners this particular development though I mean 3801 05:42:38,280 --> 05:42:43,560 you're gonna have these kind of developments or that was zone has been 3802 05:42:43,560 --> 05:42:48,200 zone like that that was part of the 2030 plan as the future land use map showed 3803 05:42:48,200 --> 05:42:53,400 that being that way then so we knew that was going that area what we try and do 3804 05:42:53,400 --> 05:42:57,920 here is make sure that in situations like yours that it doesn't reach over 3805 05:42:57,920 --> 05:43:02,880 and to ranch estates and from what I've heard there shouldn't be that kind of 3806 05:43:02,880 --> 05:43:06,960 connection now yeah Windsor if it comes across text that's gonna be involved with 3807 05:43:06,960 --> 05:43:09,920 that too so that's gonna slow things down a little bit but that's a whole 3808 05:43:09,920 --> 05:43:13,960 nother battle that we need to fight when it comes across and make sure that y'all 3809 05:43:13,960 --> 05:43:19,440 don't suffer over there as a result of that but besides that this area that 3810 05:43:19,440 --> 05:43:24,680 we're talking about rezoning the zoning is similar in nature and if we don't do 3811 05:43:24,680 --> 05:43:27,920 this one you're gonna have something else there that's gonna have traffic 3812 05:43:27,920 --> 05:43:31,640 getting to it from 380 and on the service road so I'm not sure what the 3813 05:43:31,640 --> 05:43:37,400 it's about encroachment to it's it's about the noise it's about vision but 3814 05:43:37,400 --> 05:43:41,000 it's and the water but it's also about encroachment because as you see in the 3815 05:43:41,000 --> 05:43:45,520 pictures ranch estates is an island yeah everything around it is commercial and 3816 05:43:45,520 --> 05:43:52,520 one question we had was that it seemed natural for these trucks to go on the 3817 05:43:52,520 --> 05:43:59,200 south side of 380 where all that is commercial so I don't know why that 3818 05:43:59,200 --> 05:44:04,240 didn't happen well when this comes back to us in the form of site plan and 3819 05:44:04,240 --> 05:44:07,320 everything we'll definitely keep your thoughts in mind about lights and noise 3820 05:44:07,320 --> 05:44:11,360 and dirt stuff like that and make sure that they're following the guidelines 3821 05:44:11,360 --> 05:44:15,680 that we've set forth on that and encroachment and yes sir thank you thank 3822 05:44:15,680 --> 05:44:35,400 you we have one more card it is for Jim Poryot Jim and his wife Peggy are in 3823 05:44:35,400 --> 05:44:41,840 Panama City to the Denton planning and zoning committee from Jim and Peggy 3824 05:44:41,840 --> 05:44:48,000 Perot 3801 Hampton we are asking miss Anne Smith to read our letter as we are 3825 05:44:48,000 --> 05:44:52,360 out of town on the meeting date yesterday we received an alert this was 3826 05:44:52,360 --> 05:44:57,200 dated December 28th yesterday yesterday we received an alert concerning the 3827 05:44:57,200 --> 05:45:02,620 change of zoning requests for property adjacent to the railroad tracks we live 3828 05:45:02,620 --> 05:45:06,400 at the corner of Marshall and Hampton and we are within 500 feet of the 3829 05:45:06,400 --> 05:45:11,680 property in question we have lived here for 42 years the project name is 3830 05:45:11,680 --> 05:45:16,840 Worthington track truck port we will refer to it as truck port we drove to 3831 05:45:16,840 --> 05:45:21,600 the location and realize it is a truck port with well over a hundred trucks in 3832 05:45:21,600 --> 05:45:26,920 three block in a three block area there are also 50 truck garages additional 3833 05:45:26,920 --> 05:45:33,560 rented to various customers to truck maintenance why we didn't want to 3834 05:45:33,560 --> 05:45:39,080 increase the truck traffic on University I think this is the really big important 3835 05:45:39,080 --> 05:45:43,680 paragraph right here why would didn't want to increase the truck traffic on 3836 05:45:43,680 --> 05:45:48,600 University Drive less than a mile from razor ranch and growing commercial 3837 05:45:48,600 --> 05:45:53,680 properties such as Cavender's and Duluth Trading Company there are five hotels 3838 05:45:53,680 --> 05:45:58,640 within a thousand feet of the truck port and we wonder if that would be a good 3839 05:45:58,640 --> 05:46:03,400 neighbor for the hotels two weeks ago I and my family were involved in a 3840 05:46:03,400 --> 05:46:09,880 collision eastbound on University Drive when an 18-wheeler moved from the center 3841 05:46:09,880 --> 05:46:15,560 lane and collided with our car he was wanting to turn left onto Mesa Drive 3842 05:46:15,560 --> 05:46:19,800 which this is what we're talking about his insurance is paying for the car 3843 05:46:19,800 --> 05:46:26,560 damage but has been great it has been much worse than property damage please 3844 05:46:26,560 --> 05:46:33,380 drive out to University Drive to Mesa and see the truck port also try to turn 3845 05:46:33,380 --> 05:46:40,840 into in or out of the quick trip and you will see what our concern is about 3846 05:46:40,840 --> 05:46:46,640 traffic in that location Ranch Estates is a popular residential neighborhood 3847 05:46:46,640 --> 05:46:52,440 please keep it safe safety that safety would not include a truck port between 3848 05:46:52,440 --> 05:47:01,000 us and the rest didn't thank you for reading that I do not have any other 3849 05:47:01,000 --> 05:47:05,160 cards but this is public hearing so if anyone's wishing to speak you may 3850 05:47:05,160 --> 05:47:13,600 certainly do so by stepping forward and if you could just state your name and 3851 05:47:13,600 --> 05:47:16,360 address for the record 3852 05:47:25,760 --> 05:47:33,440 my name is Paul Carr I live on three eight zero five Hampton Road now our 3853 05:47:33,440 --> 05:47:38,040 home is probably not the oldest home out there but I think I am probably the 3854 05:47:38,040 --> 05:47:43,520 oldest person out there with except my wife was six years older than not six 3855 05:47:43,520 --> 05:47:52,400 months older than I am she turned 85 so we built a home in 1972 because we were 3856 05:47:52,400 --> 05:48:01,440 enamored with the space we were we were looking for a place that had some some 3857 05:48:01,440 --> 05:48:08,520 room for our children to grow we raised a family out there two daughters and a 3858 05:48:08,520 --> 05:48:14,440 son who have now gone on two of the daughters still live in Denton our son 3859 05:48:14,440 --> 05:48:25,240 chose the Navy route and is in the DC area you know I know this particular 3860 05:48:25,240 --> 05:48:32,200 agenda item here doesn't really deal with what I came out here to understand 3861 05:48:32,200 --> 05:48:40,640 was going to talk about and that was a Windsor Road I can't see any need for 3862 05:48:40,640 --> 05:48:46,920 another road and access into Ranch Estates especially one from the east 3863 05:48:46,920 --> 05:48:52,400 from an industrial area because I can visualize what's going to happen if that 3864 05:48:52,400 --> 05:49:00,480 happens as I say I'm on Hampton Road and that would be a disaster for us and for 3865 05:49:00,480 --> 05:49:08,440 I think probably at least eight or ten other homes on the Hampton area which is 3866 05:49:08,440 --> 05:49:14,680 not it's not good the other thing though that I do really am concerned about is 3867 05:49:14,680 --> 05:49:20,920 drainage from this new property I don't know if you all remember but several 3868 05:49:20,920 --> 05:49:26,880 years ago there was a company who wanted to put several manufactured I wanted to 3869 05:49:26,880 --> 05:49:32,400 build manufactured homes up in about the same area that we're talking about here 3870 05:49:32,400 --> 05:49:39,480 there was a study made I think probably by your previous members of the count of 3871 05:49:39,480 --> 05:49:47,240 the group here and they decided that no that would not be a good idea because of 3872 05:49:47,240 --> 05:49:52,800 the drainage problem presented by all the concrete up there I can't see 3873 05:49:52,800 --> 05:49:58,840 anything but concrete with this facility so I would implore upon you to please 3874 05:49:58,840 --> 05:50:04,440 look at that aspect because if it once was determined that drainage is a 3875 05:50:04,440 --> 05:50:10,960 problem I can not see that's been changed I can only see it being hindered 3876 05:50:10,960 --> 05:50:23,320 with this thank you is there anyone else who's wishing to speak on this item 3877 05:50:23,640 --> 05:50:34,680 Christian Smith thank you chair cast out question miss beset Amy is pervious 3878 05:50:34,680 --> 05:50:39,720 surface correct yes and the developer have an idea of the making pervious 3879 05:50:39,720 --> 05:50:45,520 surface by the way I put up gravel what kind of pervious surface of the yes I 3880 05:50:45,520 --> 05:50:48,960 Lee Allison is our engineer on this project and he can speak more 3881 05:50:48,960 --> 05:50:53,600 specifically to it I believe he's still here and but it's a flex base so it 3882 05:50:53,600 --> 05:50:59,200 would not be gravel per se but it would be pervious there's a small if you look 3883 05:50:59,200 --> 05:51:05,740 at the at the concept plan that's in front of you the area shaded in yellow is 3884 05:51:05,740 --> 05:51:11,240 all that would be concrete and impervious that is correct okay if I could ask mr. 3885 05:51:11,240 --> 05:51:15,220 Allison just to come down and just describe pervious surfaces for a quick 3886 05:51:15,220 --> 05:51:21,280 second just to hopefully dispel the drainage issue we're worried about good 3887 05:51:21,280 --> 05:51:29,040 evening Lee Allison without engineering group 2154 North Elm Street pervious and 3888 05:51:29,040 --> 05:51:33,840 impervious a pervious service allows the water to penetrate the surface gravel 3889 05:51:33,840 --> 05:51:39,960 grass paved creek things of that nature an impervious surface is very tight such 3890 05:51:39,960 --> 05:51:44,760 as concrete or asphalt I think the biggest aspect here particularly with 3891 05:51:44,760 --> 05:51:50,440 this site is the existing detention pond I had worked on another project on this 3892 05:51:50,440 --> 05:51:54,220 exact same site we're going to put concrete on the whole area and that 3893 05:51:54,220 --> 05:51:59,160 detention pond is already designed to accommodate this site fully developed 3894 05:51:59,160 --> 05:52:08,480 condition the water does go for example that's where the pond is this area above 3895 05:52:08,480 --> 05:52:12,800 this drains around and comes between our pond into here and then our pond 3896 05:52:12,800 --> 05:52:18,160 releases and then it goes into the culvert under the railroad and across 3897 05:52:18,160 --> 05:52:22,560 then there's a drainage channel here it goes through and somewhere in Rancho 3898 05:52:22,560 --> 05:52:26,460 States there's a floodplain most of the water is coming from up above and that's 3899 05:52:26,460 --> 05:52:30,880 where the real problem in that and that subdivision is but this detention pond 3900 05:52:30,880 --> 05:52:34,840 was designed to accommodate this entire area in yellow fully developed okay 3901 05:52:34,840 --> 05:52:41,680 thank you that helped mr. Beck so thank you chair so the water that drains out 3902 05:52:41,680 --> 05:52:46,180 of the detention pond goes into an underground culvert no sir it's above 3903 05:52:46,180 --> 05:52:55,000 ground it is above ground this little closer but that's a depressed pond right 3904 05:52:55,000 --> 05:53:00,200 it goes over ground then it goes through a pipe here underneath the railroad under 3905 05:53:00,200 --> 05:53:04,920 the railroad and then it goes into an open stock tank here then when it leaves 3906 05:53:04,920 --> 05:53:09,240 the stock tank it comes out into a channel that comes across here and gets 3907 05:53:09,240 --> 05:53:12,640 into this floodplain and goes south so it's all above ground though it's not 3908 05:53:12,640 --> 05:53:18,920 it's all about there's not a storm sewer system does that flood over does that 3909 05:53:18,920 --> 05:53:26,120 handle the water does I have not really studied this area it's a shade it's a 3910 05:53:26,120 --> 05:53:31,240 zone maybe Amy can answer that we okay got an attention because that's a 3911 05:53:31,240 --> 05:53:34,240 legitimate concern I was thinking it was underground but it's above ground yeah 3912 05:53:34,240 --> 05:53:40,360 can this can these I can pull up the floodplain map and kind of show you how 3913 05:53:40,360 --> 05:53:51,880 the water trap is a little bit if we could hold the audience counts back so 3914 05:53:51,880 --> 05:53:57,240 let the applicant and then if we have questions we can pull you back down to 3915 05:53:57,240 --> 05:53:59,480 the mic 3916 05:54:06,040 --> 05:54:10,680 okay maybe I just hit the wrong one okay 3917 05:54:10,680 --> 05:54:31,880 maybe I can't pull up the floodplain now before you but let me just give you kind 3918 05:54:31,880 --> 05:54:38,800 of a general and the the area above ranch estates you'll see there's a pond 3919 05:54:38,800 --> 05:54:44,400 up there and the floodplain cuts through that pond and down through ranch estates 3920 05:54:44,400 --> 05:54:52,520 right basically through the middle can we turn the camera on 3921 05:54:55,920 --> 05:55:13,600 okay no you're right so you can see that it is and it comes from the north and 3922 05:55:13,600 --> 05:55:19,240 comes down through the middle of the neighborhood my understanding from our 3923 05:55:19,240 --> 05:55:23,560 neighborhood meeting is that the pond that is north of ranch estates was added 3924 05:55:23,560 --> 05:55:29,960 sometime in the last few years and the intent of that pond was to control the 3925 05:55:29,960 --> 05:55:34,320 flooding of ranch estates and we heard from the neighbors that it has been 3926 05:55:34,320 --> 05:55:40,880 improved since that point in time and that our site and as Lee has mentioned 3927 05:55:40,880 --> 05:55:46,840 has a regional detention on it that's intended to hold enough water that if we 3928 05:55:46,840 --> 05:55:51,840 paved that entire site it still would not cause flooding issues and we intend 3929 05:55:51,840 --> 05:55:56,400 to only pave a very small percentage of it does that does that help address that 3930 05:55:56,400 --> 05:56:00,360 yeah it really is gonna depend upon what kind of rainfall we have whether it 3931 05:56:00,360 --> 05:56:07,560 floods or not they're in the floodplain so it's always a risk that there's okay 3932 05:56:07,560 --> 05:56:12,640 you said the applicant is here too that we can talk about the trucks I do yes 3933 05:56:12,640 --> 05:56:17,280 the developer and owner are here okay and come down and speak about the the 3934 05:56:17,280 --> 05:56:22,640 policies related to the truck parking with with the chairs permission floors 3935 05:56:22,640 --> 05:56:28,680 yours thank you chair the question I'd asked earlier about trucks parking there 3936 05:56:28,680 --> 05:56:32,440 and leaving their engines running can you address that yeah this this property 3937 05:56:32,440 --> 05:56:37,760 we as she stated own the current truck ports property we manage the property 3938 05:56:37,760 --> 05:56:43,040 ourselves those are rented to some of them are rented to a company that has a 3939 05:56:43,040 --> 05:56:46,540 facility right across the street the parking spaces are in it some of the 3940 05:56:46,540 --> 05:56:49,800 parking some of the truck parking spaces right at the rear portion of our 3941 05:56:49,800 --> 05:56:55,080 project okay are rented to that company and then and they just stack trucks in 3942 05:56:55,080 --> 05:56:59,840 there that are staged for work at their other facility and then they maybe go 3943 05:56:59,840 --> 05:57:03,000 back there before they're sent to haul some are rented to individual truck 3944 05:57:03,000 --> 05:57:07,000 drivers who live in live in or near Denton and they can't park those trucks 3945 05:57:07,000 --> 05:57:11,720 at their home right and so they they leave a vehicle parked there they come 3946 05:57:11,720 --> 05:57:15,040 there they park the truck and leave in their their vehicles until they have 3947 05:57:15,040 --> 05:57:19,620 another truck to another route to go on often times they aren't even hauling a 3948 05:57:19,620 --> 05:57:25,400 trailer it's just the track of portion of the so the norm is that there can you 3949 05:57:25,400 --> 05:57:30,120 please say your name sorry Alex pain I'm the owner of access realty group also 3950 05:57:30,120 --> 05:57:33,920 one of the owners of this property and at Northbridge management is our is our 3951 05:57:33,920 --> 05:57:38,400 management arm that manages the property thank you chair for bringing it out so 3952 05:57:38,400 --> 05:57:45,240 there is there an issue then with motors running mostly we don't I mean I don't 3953 05:57:45,240 --> 05:57:49,000 know that we specifically have anything that states they can't can or can't stay 3954 05:57:49,000 --> 05:57:53,440 in the property I don't think we've found it to be an issue it's not a truck 3955 05:57:53,440 --> 05:57:58,080 it's not a truck stop or you might find trucks leaving them they're running and 3956 05:57:58,080 --> 05:58:02,120 sleeping in there we've never heard that that's being done on our property would 3957 05:58:02,120 --> 05:58:07,120 there be any consideration on your part to make sure this didn't happen when they 3958 05:58:07,120 --> 05:58:10,960 open this up I don't want to put any restrictions on you but yeah I mean we'd 3959 05:58:10,960 --> 05:58:14,400 certainly be willing to put something in our lease that these can't leave in 3960 05:58:14,400 --> 05:58:19,040 general yeah you don't you don't stay there overnight or leave them it running 3961 05:58:19,040 --> 05:58:23,280 for extended period of time I mean that's a that's a management issue that 3962 05:58:23,280 --> 05:58:28,160 we'd be willing to add I don't know if that's a zoning related matter but okay 3963 05:58:28,160 --> 05:58:31,880 just thought I'd bring it up to because there's a little ginger here okay well 3964 05:58:31,880 --> 05:58:37,160 thank you sir yeah real quick Alex while you're up here I have two questions that 3965 05:58:37,160 --> 05:58:43,640 I don't think have been answered is is the operation at 24-hour come and go or 3966 05:58:43,640 --> 05:58:46,840 is it gated at what's the hours of operation there's a gate and I'm sure 3967 05:58:46,840 --> 05:58:51,240 that our clients have the right to come and go at any hour of the night just 3968 05:58:51,240 --> 05:58:54,800 because of the nature of their business if they are individual truck drivers they 3969 05:58:54,800 --> 05:58:59,600 may get in from a long haul you know at four in the morning and so I don't think 3970 05:58:59,600 --> 05:59:03,440 that we could restrict that but it's not I think some of the concerns that I've 3971 05:59:03,440 --> 05:59:07,320 heard about the noise and and lighting are from our neighbor to our south 3972 05:59:07,320 --> 05:59:12,200 which is Ed's Co. manufacturing and they run three shifts in a day and do keep 3973 05:59:12,200 --> 05:59:15,600 late hours and I have heard that you can create some loud boom but it's also 3974 05:59:15,600 --> 05:59:19,880 zoned heavy industrial our properties zone light or what we're requesting is 3975 05:59:19,880 --> 05:59:24,600 light industrial and and that's really only if only an issue that we were 3976 05:59:24,600 --> 05:59:29,400 requesting that zoning because it's we could go build a commercial parking lot 3977 05:59:29,400 --> 05:59:33,840 there with our current zoning that's an allowable allowable use to operate a 3978 05:59:33,840 --> 05:59:38,040 commercial parking lot the reason that we requested a zoning change is because 3979 05:59:38,040 --> 05:59:43,040 we can do it in the form where it's a storage use and not have to require us 3980 05:59:43,040 --> 05:59:49,480 to build to make the site 100% concrete we want to put pervious surface there 3981 05:59:49,480 --> 05:59:54,800 it's more economical for us and then it also improves our drainage and so we 3982 05:59:54,800 --> 05:59:58,600 could operate a concrete commercial parking lot there because we have one 3983 05:59:58,600 --> 06:00:04,000 now and we could build we could you know the current zoning allows for 24 3984 06:00:04,000 --> 06:00:08,800 operations such as a hotel as you can see that those exist to our to our East 3985 06:00:08,800 --> 06:00:13,520 that so we're not proposing those types of uses that actually would impact more 3986 06:00:13,520 --> 06:00:16,600 their neighborhood work because some of the folks that came to our neighborhood 3987 06:00:16,600 --> 06:00:19,760 meeting said well here's what I can see and they're showing me pictures which I 3988 06:00:19,760 --> 06:00:24,960 saw a three-story hotel you could see a clip of one of our buildings but this 3989 06:00:24,960 --> 06:00:29,720 site to the north which is really the site in question that site is I just 3990 06:00:29,720 --> 06:00:33,880 measured it's from the back edge of where we're going to develop to the 3991 06:00:33,880 --> 06:00:39,680 nearest neighbor it's about 650 feet away and so I just really feel like with 3992 06:00:39,680 --> 06:00:45,080 that and our you know proposed buffer there's gonna be very limited impact 3993 06:00:45,080 --> 06:00:51,080 whatsoever on the neighborhood the other question I had is based on the current 3994 06:00:51,080 --> 06:00:55,600 operations and the future is the expectation that all exiting traffic 3995 06:00:55,600 --> 06:01:00,280 would just go out Schuller to the the access road there I mean that's the 3996 06:01:00,280 --> 06:01:04,440 that's the straightest distance and easiest route to get to I-35 if I'm a if 3997 06:01:04,440 --> 06:01:08,000 I'm a truck driver unless I'm going westbound on 380 I wouldn't see any 3998 06:01:08,000 --> 06:01:13,480 reason to go down Mesa Road even still I might still go out to Schuller to the 3999 06:01:13,480 --> 06:01:18,440 service road just because it's an easier an easier shot as far as speaking to the 4000 06:01:18,440 --> 06:01:23,180 the concerns about connectivity you have to understand sometimes mobility plans 4001 06:01:23,180 --> 06:01:27,760 get created and they're just very simple let me just draw the quickest route 4002 06:01:27,760 --> 06:01:32,360 between A and B and they don't really take into account existing conditions if 4003 06:01:32,360 --> 06:01:37,580 you were to align our road to tie into Hampton Road or to align Windsor Road 4004 06:01:37,580 --> 06:01:40,880 where they would propose it to come over and get down to Hampton Road which I 4005 06:01:40,880 --> 06:01:45,640 don't know that's to me is news to us it benefits us in no way no one from our 4006 06:01:45,640 --> 06:01:50,560 ownership group said we were in support of that and so it just really doesn't 4007 06:01:50,560 --> 06:01:54,920 it doesn't make or break our project whatsoever again it's all it's news to 4008 06:01:54,920 --> 06:01:58,760 us the before it to do that it would have to cut through our detention bond 4009 06:01:58,760 --> 06:02:02,040 you know in order to do that I don't think they would I don't think they 4010 06:02:02,040 --> 06:02:06,800 would want to actually construct it in that way and so you know I really think 4011 06:02:06,800 --> 06:02:10,400 it's a non-issue there I appreciate the response and as we just saw from the 4012 06:02:10,400 --> 06:02:14,680 previous item that mobility plan is changeable Hickory Creek looks to be 4013 06:02:14,680 --> 06:02:19,080 changing as of this evening we do have this looks like one more question 4014 06:02:19,080 --> 06:02:25,340 Mr. Sanchez and you do have trucks already parked there in the back right 4015 06:02:25,340 --> 06:02:32,560 yes so that's that's how many trucks 50 50 there's 50 spaces 50 spaces and if I 4016 06:02:32,560 --> 06:02:36,320 if I remember correctly there was also some trucks already parked in that lot 4017 06:02:36,320 --> 06:02:40,840 yeah so that we don't own that lot the current property owner I think made a 4018 06:02:40,840 --> 06:02:44,640 deal with one of the guys across the street to just put some trucks there but 4019 06:02:44,640 --> 06:02:48,220 it's it's not something that we're involved with I think it's my 4020 06:02:48,220 --> 06:02:50,680 understanding from talking to the property owner that they're terminating 4021 06:02:50,680 --> 06:02:56,160 that that arrangement until such time that something gets worked out I guess I 4022 06:02:56,160 --> 06:03:01,720 guess my thinking is I mean 50 trucks I've already been there and I don't know 4023 06:03:01,720 --> 06:03:04,960 how long they've been there but they've been you know people have been coming in 4024 06:03:04,960 --> 06:03:10,520 dropping them off and I don't know how how what impact has had on on the 4025 06:03:10,520 --> 06:03:14,360 neighbors but it isn't it's already been there that use has already been there 4026 06:03:14,360 --> 06:03:21,440 right so I don't I guess my point is there hadn't been that much noise or 4027 06:03:21,440 --> 06:03:27,960 whatever as since nobody has been called or reported of we've never heard from 4028 06:03:27,960 --> 06:03:33,720 anyone yeah of that issue being that being an issue yeah I'd like to just add 4029 06:03:33,720 --> 06:03:38,880 if you know I think time to rebut some concerns or questions but I think there 4030 06:03:38,880 --> 06:03:44,040 was someone that mentioned Margie mentioned a restricting an electrical 4031 06:03:44,040 --> 06:03:47,880 substation we'd certainly be okay with that I mean we have no obviously no 4032 06:03:47,880 --> 06:03:56,960 desire to do that so we would we would restrict that use no problem let's see 4033 06:03:56,960 --> 06:04:01,520 I think I hit on I think I really hit on most of the items and I don't want to 4034 06:04:01,520 --> 06:04:06,400 reiterate but that the drainage is over improved for what we're doing and so I 4035 06:04:06,400 --> 06:04:12,240 really hope that I do understand their concern between the between the pond 4036 06:04:12,240 --> 06:04:15,280 that was pointed out to the north of that subdivision to that subdivision I 4037 06:04:15,280 --> 06:04:20,160 think has improved as well as the widening of 380 there was a bridge there 4038 06:04:20,160 --> 06:04:24,400 that created a kind of a stop damn and that when that bridge was widened I 4039 06:04:24,400 --> 06:04:27,440 think that's alleviated some of the backup that can occur into their 4040 06:04:27,440 --> 06:04:31,760 neighborhood so I mean I I would expect that maybe things are better I don't know 4041 06:04:31,760 --> 06:04:35,320 I don't live there but I can assure you that we have no intent of of making I 4042 06:04:35,320 --> 06:04:41,680 know the issue worse and quite frankly state law prevents us from doing so and 4043 06:04:41,680 --> 06:04:45,360 just to just to speak to the neighborhood I'm a local business owner 4044 06:04:45,360 --> 06:04:50,320 a resident of Denton my business is in downtown Denton we do quality we try to 4045 06:04:50,320 --> 06:04:54,120 do quality work work on quality projects and not be someone that's just going to 4046 06:04:54,120 --> 06:04:58,000 come in and and do something in this town to make a quick buck and exit we 4047 06:04:58,000 --> 06:05:02,560 want to be able to see these folks that you know these meetings or at the 4048 06:05:02,560 --> 06:05:07,640 restaurants and just say hey we want to be good neighbors and so I really would 4049 06:05:07,640 --> 06:05:12,280 would urge you to support our plan which is just you know trying to in some ways 4050 06:05:12,280 --> 06:05:18,560 improve and get things that really shouldn't be imposing on neighborhoods 4051 06:05:18,560 --> 06:05:23,720 there's a there's a trucker that parks on on 377 across from my neighborhood go 4052 06:05:23,720 --> 06:05:27,240 heading towards Argyle he leaves his truck park there on textile right away 4053 06:05:27,240 --> 06:05:30,840 you know leave his car there's doing I don't know how he gets away with it but 4054 06:05:30,840 --> 06:05:34,720 these guys have to have somewhere to leave their trucks and they kind of put 4055 06:05:34,720 --> 06:05:38,080 them anywhere they can and unless these kinds of facilities exist for them and 4056 06:05:38,080 --> 06:05:44,160 so anyway if there's no other questions I do not see thank you Julie I have a 4057 06:05:44,160 --> 06:05:52,900 couple questions for you first is more confirmation when this comes back for 4058 06:05:52,900 --> 06:05:57,200 preliminary final platting they will have to meet the city's requirement for 4059 06:05:57,200 --> 06:06:03,200 drainage and attention of water to what their plans develop so they cannot 4060 06:06:03,200 --> 06:06:08,240 develop unless they meet all technical specs to make sure any drainage impact 4061 06:06:08,240 --> 06:06:12,600 they have is considered by them correct yes sir it will be reviewed by your 4062 06:06:12,600 --> 06:06:15,840 engineering department and make sure that it meets all of engineering found 4063 06:06:15,840 --> 06:06:21,920 that based on the development there's an overflow into that that culvert under 4064 06:06:21,920 --> 06:06:26,840 the railroad that would have to be fixed before building absolutely okay and then 4065 06:06:26,840 --> 06:06:30,760 the other question I had is this question I'm gonna just ask for an 4066 06:06:30,760 --> 06:06:38,800 educated guess the Windsor extension we are 15 years out 20 years out will it 4067 06:06:38,800 --> 06:06:43,640 ever happen I don't know what the timeline is but I talked to our I talked 4068 06:06:43,640 --> 06:06:48,800 to Preetam our transportation engineer about where that was gonna connect so 4069 06:06:48,800 --> 06:06:55,760 here's Windsor here and of course my map doesn't provide me with so Mosh branch 4070 06:06:55,760 --> 06:07:00,320 is about in this location right here it's intended to actually connect with 4071 06:07:00,320 --> 06:07:06,120 Mosh branch or track to the north so it is not intended or planned to connect 4072 06:07:06,120 --> 06:07:12,840 with Hampton so so hopefully that helps answer that question I just I don't know 4073 06:07:12,840 --> 06:07:18,960 what the timing is on it I didn't expect you to but I kind of wishful thinking 4074 06:07:18,960 --> 06:07:24,760 yeah I think yeah as Richard said not anytime in the near future because you 4075 06:07:24,760 --> 06:07:29,320 have to expand 30 that it's a mess that's all I have I don't see any other 4076 06:07:29,320 --> 06:07:34,060 questions at this point and I want to this time officially close the public 4077 06:07:34,060 --> 06:07:38,720 hearing kind of extended that a little bit and with that I will open up the 4078 06:07:38,720 --> 06:07:44,200 dais to a motion or discussion Commissioner Smith I'm gonna move to 4079 06:07:44,200 --> 06:07:50,360 approve this item it looks pretty clear that exits would be toward to Shuler and 4080 06:07:50,360 --> 06:07:55,800 then on to the exit to the access ramp from there the future land use map fits 4081 06:07:55,800 --> 06:08:03,120 fits the suitability for this we know that the with the city code for site 4082 06:08:03,120 --> 06:08:08,680 plan and final plotting that the the light pollution and the drainage items 4083 06:08:08,680 --> 06:08:15,480 would be addressed so I have I've got nothing to even point out that could 4084 06:08:15,480 --> 06:08:21,160 possibly hold against the applicant before this project no matter when the 4085 06:08:21,160 --> 06:08:25,520 windage is developed it's not it's not their responsibility and then I do feel 4086 06:08:25,520 --> 06:08:30,960 for you guys in the neighborhood I really do it's you know the the traffic 4087 06:08:30,960 --> 06:08:35,080 issues you guys have a 3d I grew up out at Naylor in 380 so I'm basically like 4088 06:08:35,080 --> 06:08:40,640 you but just on the other side of town and I almost got got killed by to my 4089 06:08:40,640 --> 06:08:44,160 trucks probably on a weekly basis getting out of Prairie House that area 4090 06:08:44,160 --> 06:08:50,240 and so it's just not the applicant's fault and something needs to be done 4091 06:08:50,240 --> 06:08:55,680 about it but it's not it's not mr. Payne or mrs. sets responsibility to do it so 4092 06:08:55,680 --> 06:09:02,880 I will move to approve it will accept the applicants offer to memorialize a 4093 06:09:02,880 --> 06:09:09,440 type-c landscape buffer on the backside of that as well as a point Commissioner 4094 06:09:09,440 --> 06:09:14,880 Ellis suggested having a overlay restriction eliminating the use of an 4095 06:09:14,880 --> 06:09:19,160 electric substation are you open to a friendly amendment to amend I'll amend 4096 06:09:19,160 --> 06:09:24,680 to make my motion to approve the me approve the item with the type-c 4097 06:09:24,680 --> 06:09:29,040 landscape buffer on the backside per the applicants requests as well as remove 4098 06:09:29,040 --> 06:09:34,480 the electric substations per Commissioner Ellis's request thank you we 4099 06:09:34,480 --> 06:09:39,880 have a first customer back second and I'd like an opportunity to lay out my 4100 06:09:39,880 --> 06:09:46,160 reasons why and I can do that now or go for it okay yours I again thank you all 4101 06:09:46,160 --> 06:09:49,600 for coming down and we do empathize with what you're going through there I've 4102 06:09:49,600 --> 06:09:55,680 been here since 74 and I remember when raised ranch and what was the school 4103 06:09:55,680 --> 06:09:59,640 that was out there was pretty much all the yeah so and thank you was pretty 4104 06:09:59,640 --> 06:10:04,800 much all there was out there and I feel for ranch estates now because it is 4105 06:10:04,800 --> 06:10:09,380 located in an area where it's changing and not necessarily to y'all's benefit 4106 06:10:09,380 --> 06:10:13,200 and so we're gonna be doing battles with developers to help protect that 4107 06:10:13,200 --> 06:10:17,040 because it is an area that's been here a while needs to stay there needs to be 4108 06:10:17,040 --> 06:10:23,000 protected and the PNC is gonna make sure that it it doesn't get encroached upon 4109 06:10:23,000 --> 06:10:28,920 to the point where it's hazardous but the issues that y'all pointed out the 4110 06:10:28,920 --> 06:10:36,080 drainage the lights and noise and Windsor Road those are all things not 4111 06:10:36,080 --> 06:10:40,640 associated with this applicant or this developer those are totally different 4112 06:10:40,640 --> 06:10:47,520 things and attached to them and so it's hard to hold them accountable for that I 4113 06:10:47,520 --> 06:10:53,760 would recommend that issues where trucks are driving into raise a ranch and the 4114 06:10:53,760 --> 06:10:59,360 light issue with that one 24/7 three three shift that you get with proper city 4115 06:10:59,360 --> 06:11:04,400 people and complain because there's room for that they could probably put up some 4116 06:11:04,400 --> 06:11:09,120 signs to discourage any kind of trailer tractor to come down Hampton Road down 4117 06:11:09,120 --> 06:11:14,480 there how much that help I don't know but I'm gonna have to go along with this 4118 06:11:14,480 --> 06:11:19,480 too that area was zoned for this type of thing and it's been that way for a while 4119 06:11:19,480 --> 06:11:27,800 so thanks Chris Ellis thank you chair just a couple quick comments thank you 4120 06:11:27,800 --> 06:11:31,960 all for for sharing your concerns and your concerns are valid the request on 4121 06:11:31,960 --> 06:11:37,000 the table is reasonable for what already exists in the zoning that's currently on 4122 06:11:37,000 --> 06:11:40,520 the property and what's currently happening with the property it doesn't 4123 06:11:40,520 --> 06:11:43,920 mean your concerns are not valid and I will bring something up in concluding 4124 06:11:43,920 --> 06:11:48,480 items so we can get some of your mobile mobility questions answered so thank you 4125 06:11:48,480 --> 06:11:53,960 all for wasting your concern Commissioner Sanchez yes I would also like to thank 4126 06:11:53,960 --> 06:12:01,480 you for for expressing your concerns because because of the rest that when 4127 06:12:01,480 --> 06:12:05,120 you drive up Mesa Drive in that whole area it's already pretty well developed 4128 06:12:05,120 --> 06:12:09,320 and when I was looking at it I didn't see a whole lot of issues I also went 4129 06:12:09,320 --> 06:12:13,320 into your into the area into your neighborhood to see what it looked like 4130 06:12:13,320 --> 06:12:22,160 and as Mr. Payne said I did see just the tops of his warehouses and so there is 4131 06:12:22,160 --> 06:12:27,960 some other buildings there that you know kind of sorers you know sore on the eyes 4132 06:12:27,960 --> 06:12:33,340 but but his his buildings as I as I looked out that direction I didn't they 4133 06:12:33,340 --> 06:12:39,680 weren't that prominent because of the railroad track so I'm gonna voting I'm 4134 06:12:39,680 --> 06:12:47,360 gonna vote for it and but I'd just like to say that I understand your concerns 4135 06:12:47,360 --> 06:12:51,960 noise pollution but then I also saw the railroad track there and I thought wow 4136 06:12:51,960 --> 06:13:00,200 that's you know that's a lot of noise so thank you so first and a second the 4137 06:13:00,200 --> 06:13:06,400 only points I would make is I used to live at Selwyn strangely enough my best 4138 06:13:06,400 --> 06:13:09,720 friend through high school lived on Lariat and so I was in Rancho States 4139 06:13:09,720 --> 06:13:14,280 every weekend and so I think it's a it's a kind of a hidden gem of our city 4140 06:13:14,280 --> 06:13:19,160 that's often forgotten because of its isolation but I appreciate all coming out 4141 06:13:19,160 --> 06:13:23,080 and fighting for the character and the values of it it seems appropriate 4142 06:13:23,080 --> 06:13:27,240 across the railroad tracks to have the the current use be expanded by by a lot 4143 06:13:27,240 --> 06:13:31,720 so I'm before it however still I'm interested in commissioners all this 4144 06:13:31,720 --> 06:13:36,240 mobility thoughts on on what she has to say about making sure that major 4145 06:13:36,240 --> 06:13:40,480 thoroughfares and great access to your neighborhood is still protected from the 4146 06:13:40,480 --> 06:13:46,040 north but to Commissioner Beck's point 380 is a disservice to that neighborhood 4147 06:13:46,040 --> 06:13:51,000 and I don't know what the solution is there it's it's text dot related but I 4148 06:13:51,000 --> 06:13:55,280 wish you the best and fighting for for some better safety there with that 4149 06:13:55,280 --> 06:13:58,640 because we have a first and a second for approval of this I will call for a vote 4150 06:13:58,640 --> 06:14:01,000 on the board 4151 06:14:06,240 --> 06:14:17,040 motion carries 6-0 with one recusal congratulations at this time I'll 4152 06:14:17,040 --> 06:14:21,400 invite Commissioner Cole back in for concluding item if he is in the hallway 4153 06:14:21,400 --> 06:14:29,640 and can hear me if not can someone's peek out Christian backer someone 4154 06:14:36,240 --> 06:14:40,080 the next item for business is our plan and zoning project matrix I'm going to 4155 06:14:40,080 --> 06:14:45,160 first turn it over to Richard and then Commissioner Ellis is on the board 4156 06:14:45,160 --> 06:14:56,520 sorry just touch on a couple items as our list is whittling whittling down we 4157 06:14:56,520 --> 06:15:01,440 have Roman slated to come next meeting if you remember we had moved that I 4158 06:15:01,440 --> 06:15:04,600 think you had requested it so we want to make sure you were your tenants for 4159 06:15:04,600 --> 06:15:09,800 that I'm trying to get pre-tim here on information on roundabouts it sounds 4160 06:15:09,800 --> 06:15:14,760 like we may want to maybe perhaps broaden that and so I'll talk to him 4161 06:15:14,760 --> 06:15:20,440 about I know we had him talk in one instance on transportation we may want 4162 06:15:20,440 --> 06:15:26,880 to just round that out no pun intended and and and and push that date I'd like 4163 06:15:26,880 --> 06:15:34,440 to I know we had the already 5x conversation geared more towards kind of 4164 06:15:34,440 --> 06:15:38,160 out where we were just talking out west of University I think it might be more 4165 06:15:38,160 --> 06:15:42,280 beneficial if we really look at this holistically and and start to talk about 4166 06:15:42,280 --> 06:15:47,480 what what areas we should really look at as being maintaining rural and just 4167 06:15:47,480 --> 06:15:51,120 looking at it maybe a little bit differently but also in conjunction with 4168 06:15:51,120 --> 06:15:57,880 the annexation process if you remember we had the Creekside pre annexation I 4169 06:15:57,880 --> 06:16:01,320 think it was the first one the city ever did and I know when that rezoning came 4170 06:16:01,320 --> 06:16:05,320 here you know a number of the commissioners felt sort of backed into 4171 06:16:05,320 --> 06:16:10,080 the corner of hey we really never had any say in this we are getting more of 4172 06:16:10,080 --> 06:16:15,240 these now coming in these requests in one regard at least my opinion is I 4173 06:16:15,240 --> 06:16:20,060 think it's it's nice because we kind of know what to expect rather than having 4174 06:16:20,060 --> 06:16:23,600 these large parcels annexed into the city and then we get into these big 4175 06:16:23,600 --> 06:16:27,840 battles so at least we can kind of know up front and also plan and and look at 4176 06:16:27,840 --> 06:16:31,920 what those future impacts can be even before we would agree to even annex these 4177 06:16:31,920 --> 06:16:37,400 properties and so I'd kind of like to frame that conversation in that regard 4178 06:16:37,400 --> 06:16:43,520 the only other I wanted to mention I know I know we've talked about it with 4179 06:16:43,520 --> 06:16:50,000 Denton ISD and we're starting to include some of those if you notice at 4180 06:16:50,000 --> 06:16:55,520 least in this this the items tonight we included the student generation numbers 4181 06:16:55,520 --> 06:17:03,640 Julie did reach out to to ISD and requested that they attend maybe one of 4182 06:17:03,640 --> 06:17:09,080 our work sessions and just talk about how they how they calculate student 4183 06:17:09,080 --> 06:17:14,900 generation rates and sort of some of their expansion plans and so I know they 4184 06:17:14,900 --> 06:17:18,440 have a consultant a system with that so Julie's sort of handling that she's sort 4185 06:17:18,440 --> 06:17:23,120 of the the the ISD liaison at least in our department so I just wanted to let 4186 06:17:23,120 --> 06:17:26,760 you know that that's kind of in the works and one other item because I know 4187 06:17:26,760 --> 06:17:33,720 we had a couple of rezoning tonight one of the items that that we that was 4188 06:17:33,720 --> 06:17:41,040 brought up last night at council was was having a looking at a cost benefit 4189 06:17:41,040 --> 06:17:46,440 analysis as part of these rezoning applications and so just sort of kind of 4190 06:17:46,440 --> 06:17:50,160 a prelude to that you know that's something we'll we're trying to again 4191 06:17:50,160 --> 06:17:56,840 build on what we have now a lot of this I think once we get the the DDC update 4192 06:17:56,840 --> 06:18:01,280 there's gonna be a number of things changed with respect to just the two 4193 06:18:01,280 --> 06:18:05,560 criteria that we have now for rezoning making sure we look at it a little bit 4194 06:18:05,560 --> 06:18:10,520 more broader and and provide a little bit more of a thorough analysis again 4195 06:18:10,520 --> 06:18:13,680 making sure we're doing what's what we're required to do with it within the 4196 06:18:13,680 --> 06:18:18,240 code and so you'll start to see that and one thing we've been really trying to 4197 06:18:18,240 --> 06:18:21,920 push is making sure we get more to that capacity to serve so we really have an 4198 06:18:21,920 --> 06:18:25,480 idea of what what they're what they're producing or what we're what they're 4199 06:18:25,480 --> 06:18:31,240 taking whether it's generating sewer water and whether or not we have that 4200 06:18:31,240 --> 06:18:34,000 capacity and where we're heading so that's kind of just where we're heading 4201 06:18:34,000 --> 06:18:38,080 down the line because I know that was one of the concerns from from that first 4202 06:18:38,080 --> 06:18:43,720 item but that was all ahead awesome thanks for the update Christian Alice thank 4203 06:18:43,720 --> 06:18:48,640 you chair okay so in light of some discussion today can can I request that 4204 06:18:48,640 --> 06:18:53,640 the city maybe reach out to Ranch Estates and plan a meeting about future mobility 4205 06:18:53,640 --> 06:18:58,360 through there when I looked up the map earlier you know well we were having the 4206 06:18:58,360 --> 06:19:01,600 discussion I mean clearly there is a plan for some of the roads in there to 4207 06:19:01,600 --> 06:19:07,440 connect and reach out to 35 I think it would benefit greatly if the city was 4208 06:19:07,440 --> 06:19:12,960 proactive with that you know vocal group of the community and give them some kind 4209 06:19:12,960 --> 06:19:19,480 of information about what what that future is please then as far as stuff 4210 06:19:19,480 --> 06:19:26,040 for us also in light of conversation today can we get a emailed copy of 4211 06:19:26,040 --> 06:19:32,200 current capital improvements happening right now I know it's been a while but 4212 06:19:32,200 --> 06:19:37,000 we've had a list of roads that you know are on the plan or currently under 4213 06:19:37,000 --> 06:19:40,720 construction currently being what have you it's been a long time since we've 4214 06:19:40,720 --> 06:19:46,000 seen an update like that so that's one request and then in the near future can 4215 06:19:46,000 --> 06:19:54,200 we get maybe engineering in one of our work sessions to discuss what is 4216 06:19:54,200 --> 06:19:59,240 upcoming with road improvements you know I don't know how that can be done I know 4217 06:19:59,240 --> 06:20:05,080 we kind of touched on that but I just I just want facts like hey this is what's 4218 06:20:05,080 --> 06:20:09,440 coming down the pike in the next five years you know this has been approved or 4219 06:20:09,440 --> 06:20:14,640 you know just some kind of a list we can have so because this is going to come up 4220 06:20:14,640 --> 06:20:18,840 again it comes up every time and I just don't think we have the working 4221 06:20:18,840 --> 06:20:24,040 knowledge of what engineering has right and and I think that was sort of that 4222 06:20:24,040 --> 06:20:28,480 first step even that the Sherman the Sherman study that we did where rather 4223 06:20:28,480 --> 06:20:31,520 than engineering off doing their analysis we're doing our analysis where 4224 06:20:31,520 --> 06:20:36,440 we actually it's kind of nice we're working together and starter start 4225 06:20:36,440 --> 06:20:40,000 out starting planning and really sitting down and saying you know how do we want 4226 06:20:40,000 --> 06:20:45,560 this area to develop it is it's a it's a fresh piece of paper to start on but 4227 06:20:45,560 --> 06:20:50,600 that might take a little time but yes but also I mean it's we definitely have 4228 06:20:50,600 --> 06:20:55,680 there's things in the future works we just need to know about them okay thanks 4229 06:20:55,680 --> 06:21:01,280 Christian back thank you chair and maybe we need an update on the mobility 4230 06:21:01,280 --> 06:21:05,480 plan - I think the last time we had is when Andrew and I first joined the PNC so 4231 06:21:05,480 --> 06:21:09,760 a lot of members haven't I've got an old map of that that shows everything and 4232 06:21:09,760 --> 06:21:13,120 some of that's probably changed so it would be good if we were all updated on 4233 06:21:13,120 --> 06:21:16,840 that so when we get confronted with these kind of issues like Windsor will 4234 06:21:16,840 --> 06:21:20,960 be a little bit more on top so maybe a presentation on the mobility plan yeah 4235 06:21:20,960 --> 06:21:24,760 because what what they're what they're really looking at is really I'm kind of 4236 06:21:24,760 --> 06:21:28,640 going back to this master thoroughfare plan part of that if you remember the 4237 06:21:28,640 --> 06:21:35,080 the updates to the criteria manual not this last one the last year's where they 4238 06:21:35,080 --> 06:21:39,360 changed the the right-of-way sections and really went to more context sensitive 4239 06:21:39,360 --> 06:21:45,560 design and so rather than having a bike plan over here this mobility plan here 4240 06:21:45,560 --> 06:21:50,440 really bringing those under the under the umbrella of one of one plan and so I 4241 06:21:50,440 --> 06:21:54,240 think you'll see things are starting it's kind of exciting they're starting to 4242 06:21:54,240 --> 06:21:57,480 come together so we're looking at updating this master thoroughfare plan 4243 06:21:57,480 --> 06:22:06,200 in addition to that there there's parks has a study going out or a plan for for 4244 06:22:06,200 --> 06:22:10,560 planting trees within rights away and within so all of that will sort of mesh 4245 06:22:10,560 --> 06:22:15,000 together and so as as this is as it's starting to move forward I'll just make 4246 06:22:15,000 --> 06:22:20,760 sure each of those respective plans or the progress of them are brought to 4247 06:22:20,760 --> 06:22:25,560 brought to brought to the Commission I'll include it on the list so it's on 4248 06:22:25,560 --> 06:22:30,760 there and we know that just have the mobility part of it at the top of the 4249 06:22:30,760 --> 06:22:38,400 list that'd be appreciate thanks Richard have a couple things first maybe as a 4250 06:22:38,400 --> 06:22:42,760 sort of praise for the city thank you Julie and Haley y'all do great 4251 06:22:42,760 --> 06:22:48,640 presentations and they're clear and they're easy to follow you set the 4252 06:22:48,640 --> 06:22:51,240 standard for those presentations every time I see all his name I'm thinking 4253 06:22:51,240 --> 06:22:57,800 okay this is gonna make sense to me so thank you with that some developers 4254 06:22:57,800 --> 06:23:02,760 present better Lee Allison always has great presentations and I would I'm 4255 06:23:02,760 --> 06:23:08,240 curious about how that can be more often the case I don't know if the city preps 4256 06:23:08,240 --> 06:23:13,760 them for that presentation or anything like that it's helpful maybe he's just a 4257 06:23:13,760 --> 06:23:16,440 better salesman and maybe he should just stick that maybe that's how he gets 4258 06:23:16,440 --> 06:23:22,200 business I don't know maybe he doesn't want to sell his secrets but it's tough 4259 06:23:22,200 --> 06:23:26,880 when when Julie and Lee are on a project to deny that because they're just so 4260 06:23:26,880 --> 06:23:32,440 thoughtful so thank you for that with that the new slides look great I don't 4261 06:23:32,440 --> 06:23:37,280 know I think City Council is the one who made that happen but the new slides I 4262 06:23:37,280 --> 06:23:42,080 noticed they look good and they're easy to refer to so that's awesome 4263 06:23:42,080 --> 06:23:46,540 lastly I really appreciate Richard I'm gonna put credit to you but it's probably 4264 06:23:46,540 --> 06:23:52,080 and honestly your staff is with you but the matrix we had it four pages at one 4265 06:23:52,080 --> 06:23:57,840 point having it down to five items is awesome it's super helpful and having 4266 06:23:57,840 --> 06:24:03,920 the I know to provide economic impact for like financial viability of projects 4267 06:24:03,920 --> 06:24:08,440 is former chairs strange lifelong endeavor it never happened I'm sure 4268 06:24:08,440 --> 06:24:12,800 there's a lot of work to do that but I think that would really go a long way and 4269 06:24:12,800 --> 06:24:16,720 trying to assess these projects and and really the benefit to the city that 4270 06:24:16,720 --> 06:24:23,040 they're bringing so I affirm continuing that work to get that on there and with 4271 06:24:23,040 --> 06:24:29,760 that can I formally request your idea of DISD coming to present if we can get 4272 06:24:29,760 --> 06:24:33,920 that on the matrix let's let's have that as a target and then the two things 4273 06:24:33,920 --> 06:24:39,200 actually have questions about is one are they allowed to read a letter on behalf 4274 06:24:39,200 --> 06:24:42,520 of someone else if they've already spoke I don't know the rules on that it didn't 4275 06:24:42,520 --> 06:24:49,840 seem like a big deal tonight but I don't know okay not the answer I was wanting 4276 06:24:49,840 --> 06:24:54,640 the other question I have and this is kind of the elephant in the room for me 4277 06:24:54,640 --> 06:25:01,480 is the rural flum area of the Northeast Denton is I think just gonna be a 4278 06:25:01,480 --> 06:25:06,960 continual combative area and so I don't know if if we just wait to the DDC 4279 06:25:06,960 --> 06:25:13,600 rewrite comes out I don't know if it's way there's a way to rush a new future 4280 06:25:13,600 --> 06:25:19,640 land use map into iteration but me as a commissioner I want as you said it's a 4281 06:25:19,640 --> 06:25:23,880 blank paper let's steward that really well and I think having this cast of 4282 06:25:23,880 --> 06:25:27,640 rural is not helpful the development department it seems because it's not 4283 06:25:27,640 --> 06:25:31,040 going to be future land use they have to have these seven criterias and I just 4284 06:25:31,040 --> 06:25:36,000 really like to examine and highlight and how we as a commission can get into I 4285 06:25:36,000 --> 06:25:40,200 know the work that that Larry and Margie are doing on the subcommittee but is 4286 06:25:40,200 --> 06:25:44,920 there any opportunity for the commission to get involved to really start helping 4287 06:25:44,920 --> 06:25:50,240 plan that corridor I'm not expecting an answer but I'm gonna pose that and put 4288 06:25:50,240 --> 06:25:54,320 out in the ether for conversation let me think it through maybe it's it's late 4289 06:25:54,320 --> 06:26:04,680 because I'm gonna regret tomorrow but the thought came to me you know we've 4290 06:26:04,680 --> 06:26:10,720 we've typically have used small area plans for for neighborhoods sort of in 4291 06:26:10,720 --> 06:26:17,720 town this might be something that we want to consider moving outside of the 4292 06:26:17,720 --> 06:26:21,120 down you know typically where we look at small area plans and really kind of 4293 06:26:21,120 --> 06:26:25,080 moving it out of the outside of the loop because there might be there might be a 4294 06:26:25,080 --> 06:26:31,800 benefit of of having a growth boundary I mean that some cities do that and making 4295 06:26:31,800 --> 06:26:36,000 sure that we preserve what once you once it's gone it's gone right but that's 4296 06:26:36,000 --> 06:26:41,480 really more of a policy policy discussion but I think I don't have a 4297 06:26:41,480 --> 06:26:45,840 problem coming back at you know in a work session in in in a couple meetings 4298 06:26:45,840 --> 06:26:50,280 and just kind of going back through with what a small area plan is I mean if you 4299 06:26:50,280 --> 06:26:53,840 look at the comprehensive plan and you'll kind of look at that appendix in 4300 06:26:53,840 --> 06:26:59,200 the back it lays out kind of the criteria for for the small area plan and 4301 06:26:59,200 --> 06:27:03,320 it's just that where the comp plan is kind of this broad policy document 4302 06:27:03,320 --> 06:27:07,680 guiding and if you really want to dig deeper dive a little deeper that's kind 4303 06:27:07,680 --> 06:27:11,520 of them that's kind of the tool to do it so if we want to look at it and 4304 06:27:11,520 --> 06:27:19,480 incorporate drainage transportation and all the above it's kind of that's kind 4305 06:27:19,480 --> 06:27:24,960 of go back I think it's you know rather than just responding and reacting to 4306 06:27:24,960 --> 06:27:28,960 zoning actually doing some planning and so that's something I think we can put 4307 06:27:28,960 --> 06:27:33,040 together and just come back at least for a discussion if that if that that works 4308 06:27:33,040 --> 06:27:40,840 I would appreciate that I'll add it to the matrix that's acceptable I see no 4309 06:27:40,840 --> 06:27:49,080 objections so that's a unanimous consent so I see no any another talking points 4310 06:27:49,080 --> 06:27:55,640 for the matrix with that I will close this meeting at 1039