WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.880 that's a good thing all right you're ready to get started let's go all right i'm going to call the 00:00:04.880 --> 00:00:13.040 regular meeting to order on monday february 13th 2023 at 5 31 p.m and our first order of business 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:20.640 is the pledge of allegiance and it's in the u.s and it looks like a pledge of allegiance to the flag 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:28.240 of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:37.360 indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the texas flag i pledge allegiance to be 00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:43.920 texas one state under god one and indivisible all right 00:00:49.440 --> 00:01:02.000 all right um our first item up is we don't have any one for the two speak okay so first is item 2a 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:13.040 hlc 23-01213 to consider approval of the january 23rd 2023 minutes any discussion on that or any 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:23.600 corrections anyone i'm of approval second we have a approval and a second all vote please 00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:32.960 with raising your hand and all abstain and all opposed raise your hand okay so passes forward to 00:01:34.960 --> 00:01:45.600 and one of one statement and then we'll move to item 3a hlc 23-011 to discuss chapter 2 article 00:01:45.600 --> 00:01:51.440 10 and 12 of the code of ordinance pertaining to the historic landmark commission appointee 00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:57.440 qualification so i don't have a presentation for this so this was related to kind of the past 00:01:57.440 --> 00:02:04.080 discussions that we had towards the end of 2022 um in regards to property uh historic property 00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:10.880 ownership and and what qualifies as being part of the hlc and the commission so i was just bringing 00:02:10.880 --> 00:02:17.440 back because that was part of the matrix or that had been voted on to be part on the matrix um so 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:22.320 that's staff's bringing that back to kind of have that discussion as to why property owners or 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:30.240 historic property owners was not originally included um so in march 2022 uh if you guys all 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:36.560 read through the ais basically it had been presented to hlc we're talking about it being 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:43.040 the clg requirements in terms of following those certified local government requirements for 00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:49.600 membership towards a historic landmark commission so as part of that they mentioned 00:02:49.600 --> 00:02:56.880 architecture history architectural history planning prehistoric and historic archaeology 00:02:58.480 --> 00:03:04.400 curation etc so there was a bunch of different fields of interest or that people had had degrees 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:13.680 in that could be met or could qualify them to sit on the commission but as part of the clg program 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:19.280 it does state that the requirement can be waived if you're not able to meet that but you feel that 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:26.000 other members need those same qualifications additionally city council did remove the 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.640 ownership requirement to be on boards and commissions so that's why owner of real property 00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:36.160 has been removed from all boards and commissions um so that's also why that historic property 00:03:36.160 --> 00:03:43.680 ownership was removed as well but the clg requirements do not keep anyone who is a 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:51.520 historic property owner from being on the board first of all if 60 which is part of that requirement 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:57.920 for clg um qualifications if 60 percent of the board were to meet those qualifications for clg 00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:03.440 then the rest of the board could be whatever city council wanted to fill those positions with i think 00:04:03.440 --> 00:04:08.720 that's a real problem i really think that is a correct issue is that you're leaving out people 00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:15.040 that have a real vested interest in the areas that are covered the city council i think did a big 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:20.560 mischief doing that that was why we brought it up a year almost a year ago now that if there 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:26.880 is no property owner of a historic property there is you know you can i mean how many people here 00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:30.880 are we going to get 60 percent to qualify in architecture history architectural history 00:04:30.880 --> 00:04:35.040 money prehistoric i mean just i mean are we going to find people right now in this room that qualify 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:41.760 on any of these i'm just asking because i don't think so for any of them conservation is any is 00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:46.880 anybody a conservator i mean uh cameron you'd probably qualify but or curation or cultural 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:51.600 anthropology or folklore prehistoric art i mean are any but is anybody really good under those 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:57.440 qualifications i don't think so so i think that that's an issue i don't know where you're going 00:04:57.440 --> 00:05:04.240 to find people to do it as i previously stated 60 percent but then if you don't have to have that 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.880 requirement but that's four people or or a little bit over four to five out of seven 00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:14.160 okay we have five here i have two history degrees well that's okay that's one good 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:21.440 okay how about you i got half as many as you got one the three degree okay uh i'd like to 00:05:21.440 --> 00:05:27.600 see a broader specificity than history i mean okay lawyer types and stuff so cameron when you 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.320 say that that's the recommendation from the city when you said that others could still be on it 00:05:32.320 --> 00:05:37.840 they're saying that's the recommendation so is that a requirement so others can be still on it 00:05:37.840 --> 00:05:46.400 it's just yeah so clg their recommendation is to have at least 60 of your board be meet those 00:05:46.400 --> 00:05:51.680 qualifications however if you cannot get 60 of your board to meet those qualifications 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:57.040 then i just explained to thc or city council just saying hey we're not able to meet those 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.120 qualifications but we have a lot of other great candidates who are out there who are willing to 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:07.600 serve on the commission so basically it's just to provide guidance because prior to that we had no 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:15.520 guidance and there was no guidance there was guidance that one person had to be like into 00:06:15.520 --> 00:06:20.560 finance accounting one person had to be a builder one person had to be a resident i mean there was 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:25.040 right but city council had removed the accountant in finance they didn't feel it was necessary for 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:30.000 hlt to have that yeah exactly but they don't feel it's necessary for people to live there 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.200 you know do we just not vote i mean you know i'm saying the voting oh gee you don't need to live 00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:39.680 in the city that you shouldn't vote i mean there's an issue about voting and i think that the people 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:46.640 that are majorly impacted by what's going to go on here should have a vote in hlc or at least 00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:51.280 representation as i say you can't it doesn't mandate that there is one though there's no guarantee 00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:58.320 that there is one person here that will be connected to historic districts i think if that's a case then 00:06:58.320 --> 00:07:03.440 that's something that you share with your city council members and state moving forward that you 00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:09.440 really do think a historic property owner should be required but as it currently states in terms 00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:14.800 of qualifications we cannot add that in terms of ownership of a property my understanding 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.160 due to the fact that city council removed that from every single boarding commission 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:24.800 so it was a blanket it was blanket and done it wasn't done yes it wasn't just hlc it was everyone 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:30.640 removed ownership of a real property so any change would take a city council action 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:37.680 as a as a board you're subject to the decisions that the city council makes regarding the makeup 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:45.280 and that's why camera provided the ordinance to see that you can see kind of what i'm not 00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:50.800 blaming camera but i'm just saying that this is a a silly rule but for many boards it doesn't 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.640 matter but it's kind of like so no it's okay if you're the mayor pro tem or the you know the 00:07:56.640 --> 00:08:00.640 mayor you don't have to actually live in city limits of denton i'm just saying it there is no 00:08:00.640 --> 00:08:05.600 requirement in here in fact that you should be living in denton well i mean you could bring 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:12.800 somebody in for dallas i mean there is no requirement that the board for hlc is even from here and i 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:17.440 think that's a problem i think is what poorly thought out from that point of view i mean before 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:22.960 along the city council took all the point people would have no bearing at all and make it a full 00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:28.320 exception well it does say in the ordinance that they have to be residents of state it's on the 00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:38.560 first page of section 2 just 288 um but i i do see where where you're coming from um married i 00:08:38.560 --> 00:08:45.440 understand your concern but also you have to look at the perspective of that we had these are from 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:52.800 1981 originally these this ordinance and for a long period of time these actually weren't active 00:08:53.600 --> 00:09:01.600 so we were just kind of doing it over the last i think i think it was like 20 years these were 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:09.760 kind of inactive these or these um hlc in terms of qualifications so the best thing since we are 00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:18.080 part of a state programming of which we are a certified local government entity that provides 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:26.480 the makeup of a commission and their expectations that seemed to be the most organized and well 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.440 thought out because one we're always trying to meet clg requirements i have to do a report 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:37.840 annually as staff to make sure that we can stay within that program so when i talked to other 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:44.320 cities and hpos they said that was kind of their guiding light so that was kind of where we got 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:49.840 this base but then of course when it came to the makeup in terms of seven versus nine when 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:55.600 originally had nine that was just based off past experience of not being able to get reach forum 00:09:55.600 --> 00:10:03.920 very often and having um run-ins with attendance so that's kind of where we came up with that seven 00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:12.000 four and then obviously the clg requirements were kind of the leader for how we'd make up hlc moving 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:18.560 forward so that city council had an idea because when we specifically said an architect and an 00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:23.840 owner of real property and denton county barn association dent county historical commission it 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:30.720 really limited people in terms of what you had to get to be on commission these are all or or or 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:37.360 statements now in the ordinance so it allows for a broader category of people to be reached for city 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:45.680 council so i mean is there a line of people waiting to jump on the board i mean i don't know why we 00:10:45.680 --> 00:10:51.600 talk about the possibility of making it more owners i think it's probably uh not an issue as is 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.960 at least one i would love to see at least one person that lives in this historic district just 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:03.280 so they know some of the issues that are faced uh because if you don't if you haven't lived them 00:11:03.280 --> 00:11:08.880 a while you may not appreciate the uh the battle zones and how much how much the property owns you 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:13.840 instead of you owning the property and i definitely agree and i think that's where you all come in as 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:19.200 the commission especially if you're leaving your position saying hey you really should put in an 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:24.160 application for this position you're a historic property owner we seem to have this this this 00:11:24.160 --> 00:11:29.120 covered on the board right now but we don't have a historic property owner i was the last one to be 00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:34.240 you know on the commission in that kind of role i really think you should run so that's kind of 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:40.320 where you all come in as because i'm not going out there getting people city council members 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:45.680 some of them will but not always they're waiting for people to turn in applications so that's kind 00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:51.280 of where that education outreach that we talked about in the past is really important is that you 00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:56.400 know you all getting out there so that people can see your faces and have that interaction but also 00:11:56.400 --> 00:12:00.800 to say well it's really important that you take part in this and you play a role on this commission 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:06.240 and if you have interest in to you know if you're a historic property owner or you're a professor 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:15.040 at unt or whatever it may be um you know i think these requirements that were put forward in march 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:24.160 2022 and were passed by city council actually a lot allow us more leeway than our old ordinance 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:30.960 so are we may as are we kind of moving toward making some discussing a possible recommendation 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:36.080 makes it more communicate with them somewhere we just discussed it was just more of a discussion 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:43.040 because there had been a concern that i had heard just through discussion in the past um about the 00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:47.360 historic property owners not being part of that ordinance and that had been something that we'd 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:55.360 actually added to our matrix in november on november 14 2022 hlc meeting so i was bringing that back 00:12:55.360 --> 00:13:01.200 just kind of for discussion so that um you know i guess we can kind of get all on the same page i 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:07.520 don't know if that's but just so that we kind of have a better understanding of what the ordinance 00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:12.320 allows us to do and that it really doesn't keep people who are historic property owners from 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:16.960 participating it just gives us a base and if we can't meet that base it's not saying you can't 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:21.520 have a commission if you don't need that it's just i just need to write a letter to you today saying 00:13:21.520 --> 00:13:27.520 hey we've really been struggling to meet this but we still have great commissioners and this this this 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:35.760 and this is what they can bring and it's usually not an issue okay any other questions so as we 00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:44.240 are now we have two you and me okay i think there's value and just just because it's a different 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:50.720 perspective i think sure you can actually share about maybe we're talking to people that come in 00:13:50.720 --> 00:14:02.320 here with uh different things to ask them you may want to say on this yeah good idea all right we're 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:11.440 ready to move on i don't need all right we're going to hlc 23-012 receiver report hold the 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.960 discussion and give staff direction regarding prioritization prioritizing the historic land 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:26.560 smart commissions work plan actually for 2023 okay so i wanted to just give you all a brief overview 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:35.040 of our 2022 which was awesome um and then kind of go on to the goals for hlc moving into 2023 00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:43.120 so a 2022 overview certificates of appropriateness we received a 16 in total uh you all reviewed and 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.800 took action on 10 of those um myself as hpo i reviewed and took action on six of those those 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:58.480 were mostly paint um and some lighting i think it was paint lighting and i think someone wanted 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:06.560 to replace like two boards and i said okay so it was very very minimal um you all reviewed and took 00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:11.840 action on three historic tax assumptions we only received three all year um and then in terms of 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.880 special topic items covered we looked at 14 so this was kind of just us having these kind of open 00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:22.720 discussions topics of interest so a couple of the topics we covered were done in 2040 comprehensive 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:30.160 plan code enforcement our 2019 historic preservation plan public outreach and education 00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:39.600 and so we covered a lot of topics this past year so moving on to 2023 as part of the preservation 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:48.960 plan it really talks about the commission having an annual list of goals basically for each year 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:56.720 um so based off our discussions based off what we already kind of have in place in terms of you know 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:06.080 the ad hoc commissions um in terms of discussions with property owners that i've had when i've been 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:14.800 reviewing coas or historic landmark tax exemptions all that kind of come um came together and going 00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:20.800 through the historic preservation plan these are the different goals policy and recommendations 00:16:20.800 --> 00:16:25.680 that i ended up coming up with um that i wanted to present to you all today these are not in any 00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:31.120 particular order um i actually that is what i'm hoping you all can have during your discussion 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:38.160 today is to prioritize these in the order that you see fit um so i'll just go through them real 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:44.960 quick goal one is prepare an annual study list of potential landmarks and districts where you all 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:50.880 are starting that that was implemented in november of 2022 starting to talk about designations of 00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:58.800 interest and kind of creating that living list um so added that to the year uh brought on the tax 00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:03.120 exemption eligibility criteria for improvements to historic buildings that's something we've also 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:08.720 been talking about is looking at ways to improve our tax exemptions everyone that we've heard from 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:14.320 the public here um doesn't feel like they're really that strong especially for uh residential 00:17:14.320 --> 00:17:21.200 property owners so that um was one of the goals i brought on uh form an ad hoc historic landmark 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.360 commission subcommittees to manage and implement various tasks related to survey and education 00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:30.240 efforts currently right now we have the definitions ad hoc committee and we also have the historic 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:36.160 marker committee um but basically getting those kind of moving they're established and there's 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:41.440 goals in place but kind of trying to figure out the trajectory for the next year and just see where 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:48.080 those lead um goal number three also complete designation reports for landmarks and districts 00:17:48.080 --> 00:17:53.440 that kind of connects to goal one so kind of getting that living list going um and see if 00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:00.400 there's maybe potentially you know towards as we're coming towards the end of 23 say oh my gosh you 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:05.840 know i talked to this property owner they seem really interested maybe a goal of one or two this 00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:12.480 year who knows maybe just one but i added that goal on here as well um and then also goal number 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.480 three update the debt and historic preservation ordinance promote clarity and certificates 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:21.360 appropriateness procedures and historic landmarks commission responsibilities among other ordinance 00:18:21.360 --> 00:18:26.880 enhancements so this is also something that we've been talking about um obviously this really lays 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:32.640 a lot with the definitions ad hoc committee but it also is shared with the wider commission um 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:40.000 you know that that committee will be bringing recommendations forward and then conversations 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:47.040 and decisions have to be made as a whole um so that is why i added here as well so now it's 00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:53.920 basically just discussion um and obviously we can continue this into next meeting but i 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:58.960 did want to bring this forward so that we can kind of get a work plan in place for this upcoming year 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:10.880 all right anyone have a question i think i'll let go to myself i think it's a way of incentivizing 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:21.600 people to maintain the historic home i kind of like the goal too on the broaden the exemption 00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:27.680 eligibility criteria for improvements to historic buildings because otherwise people may see it as a 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.200 burden to maintain an old house it's easier just not to do it so they can have some some kind of 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:40.080 carrot instead of sticks so the idea of maybe putting that first because we're going to try 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:44.400 and prioritize them so we're going to probably we want to label them one two three four five 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.240 i would go for that as one but i you know that's something that does also have to go for city 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:53.520 council for any changes because that's that's where i would look right uh yes correct 00:19:53.520 --> 00:20:01.200 i think it's the only way to get people i mean right now we can do a commercial property because 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:06.560 of the tax incentives and that's helped a lot and then designated properties specifically but only 00:20:06.560 --> 00:20:10.960 designated not historic district assembly even right so i mean if there's something for 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:17.040 older units help renovate help just maintain them in some way shape or form i think would 00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:20.800 be a really great bonus because i think didn't you did you do the calculation who's doing the 00:20:20.800 --> 00:20:25.360 calculation it was you on how how you know my husband was like man it's kind of a toss-up 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:31.360 whether it's worth the effort to do because it's so such a small amount on the tax bill in the end 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.640 it's all relative but you know if it's only ten dollars i mean or you know i think it was 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:41.760 thirty dollars based on how much time the property is it's huge yeah it was a lot it's huge for 00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:46.320 commercial but it's not for for private and so i think we need to improve that for private owners 00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:51.280 because there's a lot more private owners i mean so there were three this past year that went for 00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:58.560 exemption i have to do it uh every 10 years how many total have requested or that currently have 00:20:58.560 --> 00:21:05.120 it do we do we have a total um i would have to pull up my excel sheet so i can try i don't have 00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:09.040 sorry but yeah i could definitely bring that back to you all next i didn't know if it was like a 00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:18.560 dozen or so it's not well we have 65 designated landmark buildings right now we have one that is 00:21:18.560 --> 00:21:22.960 a historically significant site so it's not designated at the local level but it's historically 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:28.000 significant so remember we have those two tax exemptions that's the fair haven retirement 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:33.360 right right so that has one right now the rest that are designated historic landmarks i think 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:42.640 we have i would say out of the 65 we probably have at most 20 and we're getting 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:46.480 to the expiration of some of those okay i would say at least 20 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:56.080 and i wonder how many of those know about this that's a problem just getting them out to know 00:21:56.080 --> 00:21:58.080 about it i heard of at least 00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:12.720 so are we thinking goal two would be our number one would be the commission's number one anybody 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.680 else i still i still like the one that you have is number one 00:22:22.800 --> 00:22:28.080 looking for uh you know additional sites 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:38.400 that doesn't take away from number two but so maybe simultaneously yeah i mean um 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:43.280 it's like ranking your children you know yeah 00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:56.240 i don't have any kids 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:13.600 both of you ladies what i'm wondering is in order to do one which i think is very very important 00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:18.240 because i think they're slipping away from us but i feel like in order to do that i don't want 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:25.280 people to feel like we've singled them out and to have to in place to feel like there's that carrot 00:23:25.280 --> 00:23:32.320 for them to go with landmark districts so that's why i kind of think some attainments are going 00:23:32.320 --> 00:23:40.000 together i don't know what chicken or the egg i mean i'm not sure you know which i think there's 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:45.760 a pretty good list out there i mean you've done a pretty good job of collecting all those already 00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:53.760 we have the properties that are eligible but those range over 30 plus years so at this point are they 00:23:53.760 --> 00:24:01.440 actually eligible um more eligible now well depending on how much work's been redone um 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:11.520 den seems to have a very high rate of alterations let's just put it that way at least that we've 00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:21.840 been able to see so um so we we do have technically a starting list but what the goal of i guess 00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:30.960 like our item 3c is is to create an actual list that you all think could be designated tomorrow 00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:39.040 or should be designated tomorrow based off their integrity or whatnot um 00:24:39.040 --> 00:24:50.480 but i definitely agree i definitely think goal one and two they are very simultaneous because 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:56.320 that's the biggest thing when i try and sell it to people is they go well the tax exemptions are not 00:24:56.320 --> 00:25:01.760 that great so why should i go through the trouble of that paperwork exactly and that's why i think 00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:06.640 if you if you elevate too because i think one is ongoing forever it's never going to be finished 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.240 right i would think right yeah that's true you know that it's gonna it's it's a constant thing 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:21.120 that will keep you employed for a long time right yeah even in turn you know um so i was 00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:25.920 thinking if you could just get somebody a reason why they should do this i think it would be really 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:32.480 important there's so many people to just like the lady on the solar panel right you want you want 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:37.920 people to feel like there's some benefit in being part of it right and then if we just constantly 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.160 you know update the list i don't know about the other three though i'm not sure what order i was 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:49.920 trying to read those but so then the last the policy 3.2 that's just been obviously an ongoing 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:54.240 discussion that we've had with sub chapter 2 and definitions ad hoc committee in terms of creating 00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:01.920 goals um and then goal or the policy 3.1 i threw that in there because if we're creating a list 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:12.160 the hlc the hpo as we we have the authority to put a report together and then basically just say 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:17.680 hey get the owner's permission but say hey we already did all the paperwork for you 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.880 we just need your signature if you want to be a designation here are your green tax incentives if 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:28.560 you want to do it and we can file it for you and review it so we have that authority to do basically 00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:34.560 that paperwork and then just have them sign off so that's kind of why i just threw policy 3.1 in 00:26:34.560 --> 00:26:39.680 there because it'd be fun to have at least one designation in 2023 because i think the last 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:47.520 designation that went through hlc planning zoning and city council was 2019 i have one for you though 00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:55.840 i think later okay i don't know it's not the work i don't like at some point for us to discuss when 00:26:55.840 --> 00:27:02.320 we do that is um giving them a little certificate and having them come to a meeting to make it 00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:08.080 a bigger deal yeah does that make sense oh yes okay we want to invite you have you know 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:18.800 anyways a little celebration yes i think so yeah that's nice so put the name in the paper 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:20.880 yeah there you go there's no paper anymore but you know what i mean 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:29.600 but as i say if you all don't want to prioritize it and you think all these are important 00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:34.240 it was just more to start a discussion um you don't have to prioritize it tonight 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.800 but if you guys are okay with these being y'all's goals for 2023 00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:43.040 then i can just make sure that these kind of live in our matrix as annual updates 00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:51.120 at the annual updates section of our matrix um and something that i obviously just keep in mind 00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:56.400 and that you all i can add that to your binder if you want to put it to your binder just so 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:03.200 that you kind of have um that visual reminder i guess each month but um yeah so 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:14.480 do you have any thoughts i think that's a wonderful idea yeah okay well i think everybody 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:19.920 thinks it's a wonderful idea cameron thank you very much okay sounds good we'll move on to item 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:27.760 3c hlc 23-009 receiver report holds a discussion to give staff direction on the historic landmark 00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:35.120 commission's request for local historic designations of eligible historic properties do we have anyone 00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:40.960 who wants to present one i have a thank you for sending me stuff but of course um do you want me 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.120 bring up the picture of it please do you have that excellent i was just trying to pull it up on my 00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:50.640 phone but yeah no worries and this is a property that most everybody should be familiar with 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:56.560 especially given all the goodies that are over here oopsies it's on elm 00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:05.920 don't i don't want to rename it i just want to type something in okay 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.960 and it is zoom in 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:23.280 oh cool we can go down oh weird cool beans okay there it is 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:32.400 this is the house you had an old picture of it as well uh that you sent me and it looks 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.120 remarkably similar i know eric just finished all of his renovation on the house he's been 00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:41.840 working on it forever in five days and i think he finished it just before the pandemic arrived at 00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:49.200 the edge of the pandemic and i think cameron you said it was built in 1888 yes and had some kind 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:55.600 of renovation path in between or update and we both decided it maybe it had moved but i have to 00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:59.120 say i went to look at the plat and there's something wrong with the reload on the plat on 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:04.320 the city's website it kept just saying it crashed but it was there for a second when i looked and it 00:30:04.320 --> 00:30:11.520 was there there but if you look at the the gis map it's not clear to me which piece of property the 00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:19.440 house is actually on they list that they live on 214 but 214 is like a on the behind the creek 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:26.640 behind that house oh sorry y'all that's okay that's the original i'm just trying to bring it he did a 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:31.200 great job he really did he did all the most all the work himself he was his general contractor 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:35.280 and look at that i mean is that not remarkable how close is i don't know i can't see the windows too 00:30:35.280 --> 00:30:40.480 a little diagonal ones but he worked at it really hard and and cameron is showing you the picture 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:47.680 that i saw too and it looks like we both agree that it was moved back from elm and now the address 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:52.880 their home address is listed as 214 west prairie which is the other street but this is clearly i 00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:00.640 thought on elm so i'm a little confused the good news is all three past owners listed are all people 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:05.600 i know and so i just haven't had a chance to catch up with eric because i try to avoid the bakery if 00:31:05.600 --> 00:31:11.280 i'm not trying to eat food it's and they're not open on monday which is my relatively free day but 00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:14.640 i think if we talk to eric and hello they might be interested i mean they're very great in the 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:19.120 community they might be interested in having a declarable landmark if they especially since 00:31:19.120 --> 00:31:24.960 part of the property is a business they may actually benefit even more in that regard and 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:30.080 the previous owner and i somehow remembered when i was talking to you about you know i think i know 00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:35.040 you still live there because it just was an old topic of conversation i think randy and aneta hunt 00:31:35.040 --> 00:31:41.040 owned it in the past iterations i went to denton cad to find that and i was right she was the last 00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:45.440 owner he was the owner before don't ask me why okay the land if you look at it on the 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:52.480 on the property area it's really weird if you look at the denton cad roll it's hard to figure out 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:59.600 which property belongs to where it's it's totally messed up we don't know when that picture was 00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:08.000 taken this was in the 1940s so every foot tax card that the county has um all the photos were 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:14.480 taken in the 1940s so if your property does not have a photo it was likely built after the 1940s 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:19.440 so this was like 1942 1943 there's a fire when these were taken and the other were destroyed except 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:26.160 these little tiny thumbnails was elm ever rerouted uh no so i actually looked at historic aerials and 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.600 everything it looks like they just pushed it back because they wanted to build this 00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:33.600 so they just moved it back because they didn't want to demo it and whoever owned it 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:39.120 just was trying to keep the house but build this at the same time because the house is 37 00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:44.880 square feet and it's huge yeah and this actually is a pretty important so i had to do i did research 00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.160 on this property so this actually has a really interesting history this was one i think the first 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:58.240 buick card like dealership um and they the original owners had owned uh 00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:07.680 they had owned this property they grew out of that property wanted to actually sell more cars so they 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:13.680 built this property and i have a whole email i need to pull it up um but i did research for 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.920 eagle surveying because they were thinking about originally going for a destination so i pulled up 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:25.280 some newspaper but so all this history is pretty interesting but um so do the folks who own the 00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:30.880 bakery also own the old car dealership that's what i wanted do you know are they leasing that i did not 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.160 do that research do you know commercial tax break for them for work on the old car dealership which 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:44.640 is a fantastic structure oh they own both they own all of that property if you okay but i can't 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:48.560 quite figure out which one is actually where they live and which one is part of the commercial or 00:33:48.560 --> 00:33:54.000 all of them it's not it's not clear to me um but i just did a quick dead and cad search because i 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:02.320 had some of their addresses listed was 214 south elm and then there was 216 south elm and 214 west 00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:10.720 prairie the three addresses that i came up with and so and if you look at how the map it's really 00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:18.160 kind of weird it's just it's weird camera what what kind of architectural style is that house 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:26.640 this house sure yeah that house oh my gosh that's like a classical revival it's probably 00:34:26.640 --> 00:34:31.920 the only example we have in denver okay and so something and you know i took care a couple 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.560 of weeks ago before so they okay so they own both it's just split into two lots so it was because 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:42.160 this i think there used to be a house here and it faced prairie and then there used to be obviously 00:34:42.160 --> 00:34:46.000 their house up here and then there was another house here based on aerials but then this was 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:51.360 constructed this is moved back and then i don't know what happened yeah i don't either so but 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:57.440 they but you didn't let me go into depth in that so he actually knows since he owned it before 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:02.960 yeah he probably did research on it i would imagine no so he would be it would be worthwhile 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:08.720 also talking to him and seeing if he knows what's going on yeah who the original owners we have that 00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:13.680 in our tax cards so the last one was somebody named keys or something the last three they only 00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:19.520 show through i said all of them which i think i said so it was built by the armstrongs 00:35:19.520 --> 00:35:26.480 okay and then the next property owner was uh nacy or massie massie okay 00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:34.880 i love these little cards they're just do you think they ever added onto the home based on 00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:39.760 aerials it didn't look like they did um i definitely want to do some more research just via our 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:47.840 community development but we would know most of the changes based off these tax cards at least up 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:53.360 until like the early 1960s i mean they think that doesn't matter to me right yeah so i don't think 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:58.480 they have that clean right there that they have and what it looks like today it looks like maybe 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.720 two wings which i'm just thinking if not that was a lot to move yeah yeah i mean it was so much more 00:36:04.720 --> 00:36:10.640 common in the old days to move houses you know now it's not done it looks like it was i think um i 00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:15.120 think i emailed you mary that was built or it was moved sometime in the 1930s yeah because it was 00:36:15.120 --> 00:36:20.400 moved back from other building was built in like 1950 so and i thought it was like 33 you said or 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:26.480 30 yeah it was 30 it was between 33 and 35 something like that yeah but early early 1930s 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:30.720 that's when it seems to have been moved back but it was originally built in 1888 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:37.440 so and i mean that they put it so close to that drainage ditch just so i know which makes me 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.480 honors i know it's like is going to fall in but it's got that old style brick you know that the 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:48.400 of walls the that are so pretty and wobbly and so maybe it's well done but you know the building land 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:56.000 value is 10,259 in 1942 that's a lot of money actually no so i guess that's when the photo was 00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.960 taken was 1942 yes it's a great house so i i certainly think we should uh encourage uh eric 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:14.240 and emma to do that and yeah when was the dealership built and the reason i ask is to 00:37:14.240 --> 00:37:19.120 ask them about that structure is what about the bakery as well when was it built and i mean he 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:25.520 could get a tax incentive on that bakery if we want to give an incentive here the building that 00:37:25.520 --> 00:37:35.760 was put up in 1950 eric bought it about 2009 that was before that was 2003 i think i have to i well 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:41.520 when was it built like from what she said 1950 the whole it was yeah because i think it's old enough 00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:48.320 to be designated as well and i mean if it was an original buick dealership i could have yes also 00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:53.680 tax benefits yes and i don't know what that building was before eric had it but certainly 00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:59.760 eric would know and uh randy should and another should know what it was because they owned it for 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:09.200 a few years okay so they lived there for a while okay i figured it out okay good so mac 00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:22.960 massie so mac massie he was the car dealership owner and that's when he moved to his new plant 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.960 which is now we're at home bakery and that was built in 1947 so he i guess lived in the building 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:35.040 behind so i said mac massie motor could pierce up left the building sometime 1946 which he was 00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:41.200 originally at that gas station further up right now eagle surveying right um moving just on the 00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:49.680 street to 416 south elm street 1947 to their new plant um i attached some newspaper articles 00:38:51.440 --> 00:39:01.440 of the property sorry i'm not very jumbled in what i'm saying um but then also i know 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:08.560 that um chuck boellinger from the library he sent a video on the ravelin bakery building itself but 00:39:08.560 --> 00:39:14.320 it seems that the owner of the house that we're interested also owned the car dealership in front 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:23.360 of him sure and or his plant so that's a really neat story to tell huge huge significance going 00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:30.320 over a large period of time you're welcome well we got to have we have to have a minimum four votes 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:35.360 to add it to the list it seems like everyone's there but we have to all right what is it i make 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:40.960 a motion that we put on the uh on the uh list can we have a motion for married we have a second 00:39:41.680 --> 00:39:50.400 second second from lenny oh or discussion first oh wait discussion yeah this is just 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:55.200 to put on the list of possible so yes just to put on the list so yeah is that unanimous all right 00:39:55.200 --> 00:40:02.160 okay that was easy that was easy all right yeah it's kind of exciting then you know think about 00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:06.320 that you drive by places all the time and you don't think about them so open your eyes as you 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:11.600 drive by there's got to be some interesting stuff that we just don't recognize yep all right 00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:19.520 okay moving on to 3d hlc three dash three three seven hold the discussion regarding the historic 00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:29.040 landmark commission project links okay so um we are going to move that public outreach and education 00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:35.760 kind of that discussion that we had last in january continued that discussion in march so be 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:43.360 thinking about that and some ideas and i'll be brief oh sorry thank you thank you bringing that 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:48.880 forward back in march 6 so just keep thinking i'm going to bring the ideas as well forward and kind 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:55.120 of have that discussion going um obviously we had the hlc's ordinance uh membership qualifications 00:40:55.120 --> 00:41:00.000 that happened today uh bringing back that uh quantifying the economic impact of preserving 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:07.520 historic properties um both in the future and then kind of incentivizing proper or owners to design 00:41:07.520 --> 00:41:14.800 their properties um i still have this definition ad hoc committee presenting in 2023 for just 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:20.160 presentation of preliminary guidelines i can move that back even further to mid 2023 but just to 00:41:20.160 --> 00:41:25.840 have that on there uh dme i finally confirmed with them they are coming on the march 6th meeting to 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:31.200 discuss the solar panels and have that discussion they just need a little bit more time to get 00:41:31.200 --> 00:41:36.560 everything together um and they just didn't feel like they would still be ready for february so um 00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:42.400 so um historic landmark commission you know we still have those same items 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:49.680 and then annual update i think marcel will be presenting that i don't know you can say 00:41:50.240 --> 00:42:01.440 it'll be vmo i'll just say vmo okay um and then in terms of all the goals that we discussed that 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:06.720 you all discussed today i will add these to the annual update so that uh we can have updates and 00:42:06.720 --> 00:42:11.680 notes of where we're at in terms of progress um but that's it is there anything that you all want 00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:21.040 to add to the matrix or if you feel like we're at a good spot um right now 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:43.200 if there's no other business i will entertain a motion to adjourn 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:49.280 unanimous thank you all right thank you everyone