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 Hello everybody, welcome to the Sustainability Framework Advisory Committee.

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 It is one o'clock and we are going to get started today, Friday January 27th, and we

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 do have a quorum here in the newly designed City Council Work Session Room.

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 We will begin our first item for individual consideration, receive nominations and elect

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 a Chair and Vice Chair.

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 I'll open it up for nominations.

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 Oh, I do want to welcome our new member, Mr. Paul Meltzer.

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 Go ahead.

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 I'm pleased to be here.

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 I recall sitting in this room with you and we urged the creation of this body, and that

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 we ended up sitting on it together.

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 If you want to continue serving, I would nominate you for Chair.

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 Okay.

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 I'll be happy to.

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 So we have one second, all those in favor of nominating myself, Keely Graves as Chair?

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 Aye.

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 Say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Aye.

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 Thank you.

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 So we'll move on to Vice Chair.

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 I'd like to open that up for nominations.

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 I'd like to nominate Paul.

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 Paul?

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 Okay.

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 We have a second.

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 I'm willing to do it.

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 Having no subject matter expertise, just being able to like fill in the gavel is something

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 I could do.

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 So I'm willing to accept the nomination.

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 I'll second it.

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 All right.

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 We have a second.

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 All in favor?

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 Say aye.

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 Aye.

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 All right.

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 It's unanimous.

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 So I will sit proudly in this chair and continue as the Chair and welcome you to be back up

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 if need be.

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 So we will move on to Item B, consider approval, October 28, 2022 minutes.

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 It's been a bit since we've been here.

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 Did everybody have a chance to look over those and are there any corrections?

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 Everybody okay with the minutes?

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 Yeah.

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 Move approval.

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 Move approval?

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 Second.

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 All right.

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 We're in second.

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 All in favor?

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 Aye.

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 Aye.

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 All right.

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 So we will move on to Item C, receive and discuss proposed meeting calendar for 2023

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 calendar year.

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 And do you have the draft calendar in your backup?

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 Mm-hmm.

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 I don't think it has a slider.

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 Those are just our proposed dates.

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 We may ask to shift a little bit during the spring as we work through the Climate Action

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 and Adaptation Plan.

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 That will be on an as-needed basis just to try to combine trips for 20 years.

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 So we will move on to Item C, receive and discuss proposed meeting calendar for 2023

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 calendar year.

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 And do you have the draft calendar in your backup?

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 Mm-hmm.

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 Those are just our proposed dates.

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 We may ask to shift a little bit during the spring as we work through the Climate Action

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 and Adaptation Plan.

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 That will be on an as-needed basis just to try to combine trips for 20 years.

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 So we may ask to shift a little bit during the spring as we work through the Climate

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 Action and Adaptation Plan.

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 That will be on an as-needed basis just to try to combine trips for travel for our consultant.

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 Okay.

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 Maybe a workshop here or there.

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 Okay.

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 So generally it's kind of keeping the meetings same Friday at 1.

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 Is that worked out for everyone?

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 Okay.

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 All right.

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 Do we need to vote on this or is it?

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 I think we just have consensus to move forward.

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 I think we have consensus to continue.

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 Great.

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 Thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 So moving right along, we have Item D here, a follow-up presentation on the current status

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 of the Greensense Energy Efficiency and Solar Rebate Programs and discuss and consider various

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 options to bring more effective programs to our DME customers.

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 And I just want to remind everyone that we are using the mics above us and not the mics

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 in front of us today.

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 So kind of speak.

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 Is that me, too?

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 That's you, too.

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 Yeah.

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 Thank you.

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 Hold up here.

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 Does everyone remember Bill from our last presentation?

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 All right.

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 Good afternoon, Madam Chair, committee members, Bill Sheppard, DME.

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 Thanks for having me back again as a follow-up to our presentation and conversation that

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 we had back in August.

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 Hopefully everybody got a chance to read the memo as well that addressed some of the questions

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 that were posed during that meeting.

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 So if you have any questions that -- lingering questions that came up from that, please feel

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 free to ask me.

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 So just as a review, and again, this is going to be a relatively short presentation because

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 I want to leave time for us just to have another discussion, but in review, these are the program

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 cost comparisons between the Greensense programs on the left and the solar program on the right.

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 Just a couple things I want to point out is the relative impact per dollar spent for Greensense,

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 which is about three times as much impact as the solar rebates on the right.

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 That's that bottom bullet there, 19 kilowatt hours per dollar spent versus three kilowatt

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 hours.

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 Also, I wanted to make note on this slide, too, that the 41 million kilowatt hours that

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 are reduced from the Greensense programs are actually reductions, whereas the 11 million

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 is an offset, so we're offsetting one form of energy for another.

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 Sorry, the point of clarification was like, on your CO2 number on the previous slide,

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 is this a number -- can you explain what that value is?

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 So the CO2 number we used is an all-in ERCOT cost per ton emitted through generation on

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 the ERCOT grid.

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 So it's a blended number as an example, because quite honestly, anything that we purchase

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 for our load is renewable fully, 100 percent.

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 So we thought an ERCOT example would be the best way to show that CO2.

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 So this is a reduction equivalent?

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 Yes.

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 Thanks.

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 Sorry.

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 It's okay.

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 Ed?

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 Do we know how many of the Greensense rebates, or the systems that were put in through Greensense,

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 also have battery storage?

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 So the programs on the left you're talking about?

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 No, I'm talking about solar.

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 On the right.

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 Okay.

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 Yeah, so the solar rebate program.

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 I have that number, I can get that number, I do not have it in front of me now.

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 Okay.

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 And these are just -- how many other installations are there?

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 We're just over 1,000 now.

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 Including the 605?

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 Right.

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 The 605 are the ones that received the rebate.

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 Okay.

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 Do we have any idea of the total capacity, generation capacity, of those 1,000?

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 In other words, adding up, say, so-and-so has a 3 kilowatt installation, some of the

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 year has larger?

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 We do, and if I had it in my computer, I could get to that pretty quick, and the number is

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 escaping me.

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 I will let you know that number, but we do track that.

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 Okay.

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 I'd love to be curious.

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 Yeah.

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 Thank you.

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 I have just another, back to Grant's question.

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 So on both sides, all the way down until the CO2, all of that other stuff is local, and

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 then the CO2, you used air-cot?

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 Correct.

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 Yeah, just a blended amount.

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 It's the best I could do to get somewhat of a relative comparison of kilowatt for kilowatt

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 between the two.

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 Okay.

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 Thanks.

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 I'm sorry.

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 I do not know what you mean by blended.

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 So when you're looking at air-cot, it's all the transmission or generation sources.

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 So you have natural gas, you have coal, you have some nuclear.

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 So the blended reduction that you get for a kilowatt hour is the total tonnage of those

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 resources across that system.

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 Does that make sense?

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 Yeah.

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 So this is not exclusively a Denton-generated number?

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 No.

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 No, no, no.

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 Is there a Denton-generated number?

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 Well, the Denton-generated number is, again, we offset everything that we have with 100%

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 renewable.

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 So it's zero.

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 I have a question on that.

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 So on our community greenhouse numbers that we have, that's for Denton, is there a way

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 to use those, or no, does that not?

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 So you're talking about the carbon emission study right now that's going on?

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 I mean, I don't know if-

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 You're talking about our greenhouse gas inventory?

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 Yeah.

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 Isn't there a localized number there?

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 I'm just curious why it was-

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 So we use market mix, and blended is the same as what we call market mix in the greenhouse

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 gas inventory.

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 Okay.

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 And then we have the DME emissions factor, and we have the market emissions factor, which

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 is what we apply to co-serve and encore in the city of Denton, those meters in the city

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 of Denton, which we get that from those providers.

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 So the Denton is zero, and the others use the same kind of blended market mix that Bill's

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 talking about.

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 So that's how we apply it.

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 Bill, her cut's 28% renewable.

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 Thank you.

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 So the rest is fossil fuel, or nuclear.

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 You want to repeat what you just said into the mic, please?

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 Yes.

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 So her cut is 28% renewable across the entire grid, so the rest is fossil fuel.

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 Okay.

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 Or nuclear.

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 Or nuclear.

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 Or nuclear.

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 Correct.

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 Does anyone else have a question on this slide before we move on?

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 All right.

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 Thank you.

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 All right.

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 So it looks pretty small up there, but I'll just walk through the big components.

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 So we thought it would be a little bit informative for us to actually go through the components

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 of our bill.

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 So there's three primary components.

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 There's a facility cost or charge.

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 There's the energy charge, and then there's also the usage charge.

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 So that first one there, facility charge, that's a fixed cost per month, and that recovers

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 a lot of our fixed costs, like customer service, billing, meter reading, those kind of things,

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 programs that we offer to customers.

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 And then you have the usage charge, which also recovers fixed costs from our customers,

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 and that goes towards the lines and the wires and the distribution system that we're required

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 to have in place to provide services to those customers, no matter what they use.

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 Then the third component is the energy charge, which is the energy cost adjustment, or ECA.

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 And that's really a pass-through cost of the energy that we purchase to provide our customers.

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 And then the last component, which sort of falls in that same category, is the renewable

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 cost adjustment, RCA.

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 And that's the premium that we pay for a generation coming back from our customers.

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 So right now, with our ECA essentially being 100% renewable, we feel that that's the more

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 appropriate right now, is the 3.4 cents for a premium to customers for a generation of

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 solar.

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 Paul?

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 Yeah, maybe not the key focus here, but if the usage charge is mostly reflecting fixed

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 costs, why is it charged per kilowatt hour?

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 So that's a great question.

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 That's part of rate making.

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 So there's a science that goes into rate making and a little bit of art, too.

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 So we're assuming that most residential customers have a similar load factor.

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 We don't register their demand like we do for a commercial customer.

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 So we don't know how much energy they need at a certain time.

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 So we look at that entire base of customers collectively, and we apply a certain amount

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 of recovery for lines, and wires, and poles, and we base that on a kilowatt hour basis.

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 I see you base it on a kilowatt hour basis, but why if you don't do more of it because

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 people use more, if it is truly fixed, why do you do a kilowatt hour?

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 Back to the art piece of rate making, if the nirvana for a rate maker, the utility is to

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 charge fixed costs in a fixed way, and that would make that facility charge $62 a month.

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 So instead of recovering all of it through there, we put a lot of it in the usage amount

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 so we can recover more from some customers who use a lot of energy, and we can recover

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 less from the ones that use less.

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 So it's just, again, it's an art.

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 It's a cross-subsidy.

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 It's a cross-subsidy.

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 Yes, within that residential class.

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 Okay.

256
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,280
 Yep.

257
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:14,600
 Can I just ask, there's a rate study that goes into it, correct, and it's done, it's

258
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,320
 updated every so often?

259
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,960
 Yeah, every few years we'll do a cost of service study, and that gives us an idea of what that

260
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,480
 looks like from a subsidization standpoint as well as a recovery.

261
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:32,440
 Sometimes we're not recovering all those costs right now, the business customers are subsidizing

262
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,960
 the residential customers to an extent.

263
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:44,120
 So the reason why I put it up here is because, again, it's the fixed costs that we're really

264
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,000
 concerned with on the solar programs moving forward.

265
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:55,160
 So as more and more folks are putting in generation, that problem is going to compound itself and

266
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,920
 get more serious for us.

267
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:03,040
 So the charges that we're looking at, the ones that we're worried about are those fixed

268
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,040
 cost recovery charges.

269
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:09,400
 And we'll get a little bit more into detail in the next slide when we compare the two.

270
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,760
 Somebody have a question?

271
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:12,760
 No.

272
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:13,760
 Okay.

273
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,520
 All right, so here's a bill breakdown using those components that we just talked about.

274
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:23,000
 The customer on the left is a non-solar customer using 1,000 kilowatt hours, and the customer

275
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:28,480
 on the right is a residential customer that has solar that also uses 1,000 kilowatt hours

276
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,480
 from us.

277
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,720
 So as far as the system impact, they're identical.

278
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,240
 We need the same type of resources and equipment to feed the one on the left as we do on the

279
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,240
 right.

280
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,280
 Now, the one on the left, they're paying a normal bill, so they're paying their facility

281
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,320
 charge, they're paying their usage charge, and they're paying their energy charge, and

282
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,280
 it's about $111 a month that that customer's paying.

283
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:59,000
 Above that $111 a month, over 50% of that is really used for fixed cost recovery.

284
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,640
 So keep that in mind.

285
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:06,380
 Customer on the right, same type of deal, facility charge, 867, you see all their identical

286
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:08,400
 on the left column there.

287
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,560
 On the right side, though, they're sending 1,000 kilowatt hours back to us, and that

288
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:19,000
 1,000 kilowatt hours we credit at a full retail rate of the usage charge, which is the 6,840,

289
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,880
 but we also apply that RCA premium on top of that.

290
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,880
 So their net bill is just under $5.

291
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:32,320
 Same impact to the system, but now we're shorting ourselves that fixed cost recovery that we're

292
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,560
 really looking for for our residential customers.

293
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:41,960
 So that is the problem we're trying to address, and the way to address that is through two

294
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,200
 different ways.

295
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,240
 One is to address it through the facility charge and making that a more appropriate

296
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,240
 charge.

297
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,840
 The other way to address it is through paying a more appropriate rate for the energy coming

298
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:55,840
 back to us.

299
00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:03,920
 So instead of that 6,840 plus the 3,810, place something in the 3.4 cents per kilowatt hour,

300
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,640
 or the ECA equivalent, if that makes sense.

301
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,680
 So those are the two ways that you can address the problem that we see moving forward, and

302
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,200
 we'll get into a little bit more detail on that when we go into the options.

303
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,240
 So these might look a little familiar to you.

304
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,160
 The first three options are the ones that we discussed in August.

305
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,320
 First option is really just do nothing and keep status quo.

306
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,180
 We feel that that's not a sustainable option, but that is doing nothing.

307
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:36,400
 The second option, if you also recall from our conversation last August, we talked about

308
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,200
 the solar rebate itself as well.

309
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,440
 So options two, three, and four sunset that solar rebate and channel those dollars to

310
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:53,720
 the green sense programs to have a little bit more effective use of those funds.

311
00:16:53,720 --> 00:17:01,360
 Option two does just that, like I said, sunsets the rebates, but it leaves everything else

312
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,360
 the same.

313
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,480
 So that in and of itself is not going to fix our fixed cost issue that we're having, but

314
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,120
 it does make a better use of the funds.

315
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,400
 Option three is the one that we discussed in August.

316
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:21,080
 So that's the one where we pay the appropriate rate for the energy coming back to us at 3.4

317
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:27,280
 cents versus the 10.6 cents, which is a full retail amount.

318
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,780
 It does a lot to help us with getting some of those fixed cost recovery back, especially

319
00:17:32,780 --> 00:17:39,640
 when the amount of energy that is flowing to us is almost doubling every year.

320
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,920
 Option four is an option that we came up with after talking to you all and after having

321
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,080
 some internal discussions.

322
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,400
 Option four addresses that problem a different way.

323
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,480
 What it does is addresses it through facility costs.

324
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:59,360
 So it sunsets the rebate like we mentioned, channels those dollars to green sense, but

325
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:05,680
 instead of getting rid of the amount that we're paying for solar coming back to us,

326
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:11,320
 we're keeping that the same other than the fact that we will drop the RCA or the premium

327
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,120
 and make it equivalent to the ECA.

328
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:21,960
 But what we will do, say that fast five times, is start ratcheting up the facility charge

329
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:29,120
 over the next five years to start recovering the full amount of the fixed costs associated

330
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:30,620
 with that customer.

331
00:18:30,620 --> 00:18:36,080
 So I'll put it a little bit more detail with this slide here and it is our recommendation

332
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:43,600
 moving forward, but you can see the phased in steps for the facility charge FY24 or next

333
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:44,600
 October.

334
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:52,820
 It would go from the 867 to the 1945 and then we will continue to bump that up until FY28,

335
00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:58,920
 which is when we'll have the full cost recovery for solar customers on our system.

336
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,120
 Incidentally, we gave the same presentation to PUB just this past Monday.

337
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:09,680
 They were favorable towards option three or option four, but they were leaning towards

338
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,480
 option four.

339
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,980
 So that's the, when we talked to you all last time, you were concerned about ripping the

340
00:19:17,980 --> 00:19:18,980
 Band-Aid off.

341
00:19:18,980 --> 00:19:23,800
 So we felt that this was a little bit more stepping into it as far as making some corrections

342
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,680
 in the system.

343
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,960
 So what we'd love to get from you all today along with another good discussion is really

344
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:40,280
 here where you all are standing with respect to which option that you would support moving

345
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,280
 forward.

346
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,280
 And with that.

347
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,280
 Okay.

348
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,280
 So we'll open it up for discussion.

349
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,280
 I'm going to go first.

350
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,280
 Can I start with a question of clarification?

351
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,280
 Yes, please.

352
00:19:47,280 --> 00:20:01,760
 On your second to last slide, if we can go back.

353
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,440
 Just to be clear, the higher facility charges are for solar customers.

354
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,440
 Right.

355
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:12,280
 And what you're doing in effect then with them, back to Paul's point, is that usage

356
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,640
 charge, if I remember what you're saying, you're actually making a fixed, over time

357
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,160
 you're making that into one fixed charge for those customers.

358
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,160
 Correct.

359
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,160
 Okay.

360
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,160
 All right.

361
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,160
 That was my question.

362
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,160
 Thanks.

363
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:34,440
 For clarification, from what I just heard, the higher facility charge is just for solar

364
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,440
 customers?

365
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:36,440
 Yes.

366
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:44,680
 Now what it does not do, however, is reflect on whatever changes that we might need to

367
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,200
 make for the overall customer base as well.

368
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,480
 As a result of a cost of service study or whatnot, because right now I can tell you

369
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,400
 that our facility charge is a little light, and you know, it might need to be looked at

370
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,400
 to go up.

371
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,800
 But as of right now, this is just looking at solar customers.

372
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,800
 Paul?

373
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,400
 I need a little help.

374
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:16,680
 There are a lot of sort of equity issues here and economic issues that are important to

375
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,520
 be sorted out, and ultimately we have to counsel to do that.

376
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,760
 The job of this group is, as I understand it, is how to maximize the sustainability

377
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,360
 impact that we have in the community.

378
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:38,660
 There's a side of the argument I've just never really heard completely, but I feel like it's

379
00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:42,040
 kind of missing here.

380
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,640
 This side, I understand completely, and it's crystal clear as presented that we're already

381
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,600
 providing energy that's offset by renewables.

382
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:56,400
 Why would we be subsidizing creation of different renewables, especially at a higher rate?

383
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,480
 The part that keeps itching my brain is, don't we ultimately need, I mean we, you know, broadly

384
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:09,080
 collectively, not just Denton, don't we ultimately need to bring much more renewable capture

385
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,080
 online?

386
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,500
 You know, sort of as a society, we know we need that.

387
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:18,400
 It's hard for me to connect the dots, but I'm just putting this out there in the hope that

388
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,040
 somebody in the room will be able to say, what is the, if there is one, what is the

389
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:35,360
 environmental benefit of subsidizing more rooftop solar that reduces our demand to ERCOT,

390
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:42,600
 but it's solar for wind or solar for solar, but it is bringing more renewable capacity

391
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,840
 into existence, and is there any benefit to that or not?

392
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:54,240
 I have kind of a hard time thinking it through, and I'd love to hear thoughts on that.

393
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,040
 There's certainly an environmental benefit, looks like Mr. Nolte wants to mention something

394
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,160
 too, but I did want to also mention that, you know, this doesn't preclude customers

395
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,440
 from tying onto our system.

396
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:11,440
 It's just bringing that amount that we're paying back to them more in line with not

397
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,440
 subsidizing the rest of the system.

398
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,440
 Hey, I can figure that part out with you all day, that's a different question.

399
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,440
 But is there a reason why we're getting rid of the rebate?

400
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,020
 Is it that, I mean, like why don't we want to still allow rebates for solar if we figure

401
00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:30,440
 out the cost adjustment?

402
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:36,080
 Like just getting rid of them totally for solar is, you know, when we're talking about

403
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:41,520
 the benefit and the capacity and going back and having more rooftop.

404
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,400
 It's really based on the effectiveness of that dollar spent and we feel that it can

405
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:53,000
 be spent better for greensense programs that actually reduce usage versus offset usage

406
00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:00,640
 that we're already providing renewable energy for, but the cost of solar has gone down tremendously

407
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:08,320
 and we don't feel that it's no longer necessary for us to incentivize it because it's already,

408
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,520
 the systems are already cheaper, as well as the federal government's providing a 30% tax

409
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,320
 credit on top of that system cost too.

410
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:22,720
 So I feel that if we're trying to spend our dollars the best we can and get the most bang

411
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,120
 for the buck, it's better to channel those back to the greensense program.

412
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,120
 That's what we feel.

413
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:35,120
 Terry, if you want to address.

414
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:41,120
 So I think that the recommendation on the rebate is really focused on what this committee

415
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,620
 is about, which is sustainability.

416
00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:49,620
 And the biggest sustainability bang for the buck that you're going to achieve is to take

417
00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:55,840
 these funds and spend them on other greensense programs because they provide more overall

418
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,360
 sustainability benefit to the community.

419
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,520
 We're already providing 100% renewable energy to the community.

420
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:09,520
 And so if we can divert those dollars into energy efficiency, that demand never even

421
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,520
 shows up, for example.

422
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:19,520
 And that energy efficiency benefit is zero carbon and goes to offset other sources of

423
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,520
 emissions that may be taking place in the community.

424
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,520
 So that's kind of the rationale from a pure sustainability.

425
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,520
 I think Bill's arguments are valid.

426
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:39,520
 They address kind of the economics, the financial impacts of this to the utility, because obviously

427
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:46,520
 that money that we spend and the higher rate that we compensate for the pushback of energy

428
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,520
 to our system creates additional rate pressure.

429
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:57,520
 And it also creates cross-subsidies within the residential rate class, for example, from

430
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,520
 those customers who don't have rooftop solar.

431
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:09,520
 They're effectively subsidizing that under recovery of fixed cost that we're not getting

432
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,520
 from the customers who do have rooftop solar.

433
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:25,520
 To Mr. Meltzer's question, there is a benefit to continue to build renewable rooftop solar

434
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,520
 in our community, and you've correctly identified it.

435
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,520
 It's the reduction in demand.

436
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:41,520
 It's not the power supply cost that it offsets directly, because a rooftop solar facility

437
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:53,520
 that's put onto our system, we cannot rateably guarantee when that energy is going to be

438
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,520
 delivered, and so from an overall portfolio management perspective, we have to procure

439
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520
 that energy anyway.

440
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:08,520
 In real time, if the solar generators on top of rooftops do in fact generate, it reduces

441
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:21,520
 our demand, but because we don't know when that's going to happen, when exactly they're

442
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:28,520
 going to be pushing energy back to us, and it's randomness because of the use by the

443
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:34,520
 household, so during those hours when that energy has the most value to us, it's also

444
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,520
 the point in time in which the household is consuming more energy.

445
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,520
 It's during the heat of the summer and the afternoon, and that's when power prices are

446
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,520
 the highest.

447
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:53,520
 So I'm having to buy that really high-priced energy to effectively offset what would theoretically

448
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,520
 could have been sort of provided by the rooftop solar.

449
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:04,520
 We would prefer, and it's more economic for the old tire rate base, to buy that from a

450
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:15,520
 utility-scale solar facility, which ends up being 90% less costly than the energy that

451
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,520
 would be generated from rooftop solar.

452
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:27,520
 It does reduce demand, and as the market is being redesigned, that may have more value

453
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,520
 to us in the future.

454
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:35,520
 It doesn't have a lot of value to us today because of the randomness of this, the uncertainty

455
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,520
 of when it's going to show up.

456
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:45,520
 If it doesn't show up during four particular hours of the year, which happen to be correlated

457
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:52,520
 very, very tightly with the highest temperatures and the highest energy consumption, then it

458
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,520
 really has no value to us.

459
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,520
 Does that make sense to you?

460
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:09,520
 In general, renewables have a lack of predictability, but you manage to model them.

461
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:16,520
 If you're modeling for one household, the randomness would be really hard to deal with.

462
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:24,520
 But you have an installed base, and just to be a little snarky, I hear extra lines on

463
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,520
 the sheets are going at a good price these days.

464
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,520
 So why would that be intrinsically not modelable?

465
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:38,520
 It is, if we had access to the data, but we don't have the granularity of the data from

466
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,520
 our metering system to be able to actually quantify what that is.

467
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:52,520
 Because we have no way to capture, for each rooftop solar facility, with the 15-minute,

468
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:58,520
 or five-minute incremental balances with the demand of the house.

469
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,520
 That's a technology limitation that we have in our metering system.

470
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,520
 Did you miss me?

471
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,520
 I do.

472
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,520
 I certainly do.

473
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,520
 I enjoy your questions always.

474
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,520
 Go ahead, Adam.

475
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,520
 Well, they're asking for our feedback where we stand on it, so I want to just share my

476
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,520
 opinion on this, if I can.

477
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:19,520
 Yeah, sure.

478
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,520
 I have a couple questions, too.

479
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,520
 Well, it may come packaged with a question, but when I was reading through this, I thought

480
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,520
 there's two ways to read this.

481
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,520
 One, it seems pretty clear if we state the big picture.

482
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,520
 And two, you can fall into a rabbit hole with a lot of details and it gets murky.

483
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,520
 And I don't know how much time to spend on each one, but to me, on the big picture, it's

484
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,520
 clear, at least with the rebates, that we get more bang for our buck spending our money

485
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,520
 elsewhere.

486
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,520
 The restructuring of the billing, I don't know how to do it, but it seems clear that

487
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,520
 we've got to either do option three or four.

488
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,520
 So I just think we could sit here and debate the finer points of all of this.

489
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:07,520
 But to me, just laying it out there, it's clear the numbers speak for themselves about

490
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,520
 how we spend that rebate.

491
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:17,520
 And I'm less steady on the net billing stuff, but it sounds like that needs to get solved.

492
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,520
 And I kind of like this phasing in.

493
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,520
 That's what we had asked for, and if that's the way it could be done.

494
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,520
 So that's just kind of where I stand on it.

495
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,520
 Option four?

496
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:28,520
 Mm-hmm.

497
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,520
 All right.

498
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:36,520
 If I may add one more thing, one more point that I forgot to mention is I think it was

499
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,520
 Mr. Sofe that was talking about batteries.

500
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,520
 So as the battery costs get cheaper, we're going to see more battery systems come on

501
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,520
 with new and existing systems.

502
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:55,520
 So another argument for option four is that would take that into effect and still recover

503
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:56,520
 our fixed costs.

504
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:04,520
 Because if we go to a -- or if we stick with a -- just a cost base and the energy flowing

505
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,520
 back to us and paying a smaller amount, well, when somebody has a battery, we're not going

506
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,520
 to see anything flow back to us.

507
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,520
 So that customer is going to be stuck paying or not stuck, but that customer will be paying

508
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,520
 that small facility charge, and we won't be able to recover it all through any kind of

509
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,520
 reduction in the amount of energy coming back to us, if that makes sense.

510
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:31,520
 So option four really brings that charge into where it needs to be, which is the facility

511
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,520
 charge.

512
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:42,520
 Yeah, I was asking about the batteries because there's a new program, which I'm sure you're

513
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:51,520
 aware of, that ERCOT has just issued a pilot program on virtual power plants and the idea

514
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,520
 of -- it's like a community solar grid.

515
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:05,520
 And I could see how, with greater growth in batteries and, of course, solar systems, how

516
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:11,520
 the load could be made more reliable.

517
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:18,520
 And to me, when I look ahead, I understand the -- well, sort of understand the economics

518
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:28,520
 of it, but when I look at ERCOT and the fragility of the grid, I'm also concerned about doing

519
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:37,520
 whatever the city can to ensure the reliability of its -- for its customers by utilizing whatever

520
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:48,520
 alternative energy techniques or facilities that they can to -- when the grid gets funny,

521
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,520
 you know, DME can come to the rescue.

522
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,520
 But you know what I'm talking about?

523
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,520
 Not particularly.

524
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,520
 It's your main language.

525
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:03,520
 But I'm looking -- I'm looking further in that -- to further -- because that would truly

526
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,520
 further the sustainability character of our community.

527
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,520
 Yeah.

528
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,520
 I mean, you're always -- you're always current on what's happening, and I appreciate that.

529
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:24,520
 And within the ERCOT market, the distributed energy resource initiative that's ongoing

530
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:32,520
 won't mainly be pushed by Tesla because of their battery business.

531
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,520
 It's in its infancy.

532
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,520
 And really, there's a lot of uncertainty about the rules yet.

533
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,520
 There's a proceeding before the PUCT right now on it.

534
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:49,520
 And as it's currently structured, while this may not be germane to what the strategy and

535
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:56,520
 policy issues are for the city, municipals will likely -- are most likely exempt from

536
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,520
 those rules because of statutory limitations.

537
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:05,520
 So what we decide to do as a community with respect to batteries and distributed energy

538
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,520
 resources will be a policy decision that the council will ultimately have to make.

539
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,520
 Right.

540
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,520
 Will it be significant is the real question.

541
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,520
 And you know, I think the number, Bill, is we have about two megawatts of installed rooftop

542
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,520
 solar capacity now.

543
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:29,520
 And we serve, you know, about 400 megawatts of peak demand.

544
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,520
 So that two megawatts because of that uncertainty about when it's delivered and the fact that

545
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,520
 if we were able to access the data, we would find out that it's not coincident with the

546
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,520
 peak demand, that 400 megawatts of peak demand.

547
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:52,520
 So unless it becomes a significantly larger component of the overall supply portfolio

548
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:59,520
 that we have, it's really not going to move the needle in terms of reliability and resiliency.

549
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:06,520
 It could if there's a high penetration within a community, you know, a microgrid, if you

550
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,520
 would, within the community.

551
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,520
 But right now we don't see that happening.

552
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,520
 And I would say that it's many years away from being a reality.

553
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:24,520
 So I think as you guys debate this and try to figure out what you're going to do, you

554
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,520
 know, just remember that you've got plenty of time as you see that develop to amend whatever

555
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,520
 policy and plan to put in place now.

556
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,520
 I would hate to see you, you know, make a recommendation or the council make a recommendation

557
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,520
 based upon something that may happen in the future.

558
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:50,520
 And count on it to have some either sustainability benefit or some financial benefit.

559
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:58,520
 I think it's important to begin the discussion now because there's not that much time left.

560
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,520
 According to, you know, getting ahead of this and remaining, being able to adapt to what's

561
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,520
 coming down the pipe, if the scientific projections are correct.

562
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,520
 Yeah.

563
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:15,520
 My point simply is that if we were to come up with a component of this that dealt with

564
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:22,520
 distributed energy resources, premised upon a certain assumption about how economics are

565
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,520
 going to work and what the impact is, and then two years from now when they do finalize

566
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,520
 the regulations, it's completely different.

567
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,520
 We'd have to come back and redo it.

568
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,520
 Oh, sure.

569
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:35,520
 Yeah.

570
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,520
 Thank you.

571
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,520
 Mr. Holti, while you're up here, I have a question maybe better directed at you because

572
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,520
 we keep talking about 100% renewable and the solar isn't necessarily as needed.

573
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,520
 But for me, that's actual physical energy.

574
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,520
 And we know that population is increasing significantly, especially in the city of Denton

575
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,520
 and in DMV customers.

576
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:03,520
 So are we prepared for future growth and the demand increase for capacity on the 100% renewable?

577
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,520
 I mean, are we planning for that?

578
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,520
 We are.

579
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:14,520
 I mean, because for me, the rooftop solar is a physical energy and it helps offset demand.

580
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:20,520
 And so the more we have in the city, the better it just seems like.

581
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,520
 I know you're familiar with the Denton renewable resource plan.

582
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:25,520
 Right.

583
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:32,520
 And so later this year, we'll be bringing a new version, a proposed new version that

584
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:39,520
 will take into account the contribution from rooftop solar because it now is two megawatts

585
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,520
 and it's going to grow.

586
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,520
 And with batteries, as Bill said, it will continue to grow.

587
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:50,520
 So how do we recognize that in the accounting of our 100% renewable?

588
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,520
 Because if you're correct, that's physical energy that's actually being generated in

589
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:56,520
 the community.

590
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,520
 That is 100% renewable.

591
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,520
 Right.

592
00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:59,520
 And so we will take that into account.

593
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:00,520
 Okay.

594
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,520
 And of course, we'll be back in front of this board with that Denton renewable resource

595
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,520
 plan rewrite for your input and comments.

596
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,520
 Okay.

597
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,520
 Thank you.

598
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:17,520
 And on that note, Catherine, do we feel like if these rebates disappear completely that

599
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,520
 the solar roof top generation will decline?

600
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:27,520
 I mean, like are the rebates not being used or do we not have enough people signing up

601
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:28,520
 for it?

602
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,520
 The solar rebate is being used and Bill, if I'm remembering the numbers correctly, the

603
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,520
 last two years we've had as many installed without a rebate as were installed with a

604
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:40,520
 rebate.

605
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,520
 More.

606
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,520
 More now.

607
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:43,520
 Okay.

608
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,520
 I think the doors that three years ago in the last two years we've really moved into

609
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:53,520
 that isn't the deciding factor for a lot of folks that are installing it.

610
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,520
 Okay.

611
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,520
 And out of our peer compares, only us in Austin are still rebating our systems and Austin

612
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,520
 has reduced it.

613
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,520
 CoServe recently stopped paying a rebate as well.

614
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,520
 Okay.

615
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:12,520
 And just one more question on the rebates as we talk about, I think in there the money

616
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,520
 would go to other rebates for sustainability.

617
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:22,520
 Is there a possibility, and it may not be okay to talk about that at this point on the

618
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:28,520
 agenda, but for rebates to go to battery systems instead of the actual solar systems?

619
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,520
 Has that been discussed or?

620
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,520
 I mean, the slate is clear and we can continue to work with the sustainability folks to figure

621
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,520
 out where the best place is for those dollars.

622
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,520
 So, yeah, that can certainly be an option.

623
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,520
 Okay.

624
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,520
 All right.

625
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:45,520
 Ed, did you have anything?

626
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:46,520
 No.

627
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:47,520
 I got it.

628
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,520
 Okay.

629
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,520
 All right.

630
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,520
 Brent?

631
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,520
 Yeah, I'd like to vocalize a little direction as well, kind of along the same lines as Adam.

632
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,520
 Phase four, or option four, is along the lines of what we had asked for at your last presentation,

633
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,520
 so I appreciate your packaging something together that reflects a lot of the feedback that you

634
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,520
 received from that last presentation.

635
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:16,520
 We spoke a lot as well about the grandfathering and these legacy solar users, and I'm just

636
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,520
 wondering, and this is just my only question, do you envision any means or mechanism that

637
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:27,520
 we have in the interest of protecting those customers who a decade ago we said, "This

638
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,520
 was something we as a city want to incentivize within the community.

639
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,520
 Here's the pocket of money that we're going to direct toward this," and those residents

640
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,520
 that said, "You know what, I think I'd like to do this.

641
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,520
 I'd like to adopt that incentive.

642
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,520
 I'd like to install this system," and you profiled that as being a near 20-year commitment

643
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,520
 on the financing of those systems at the last presentation, and here we are about halfway

644
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:55,520
 through that financing period and saying we're going to cut the tap off for what we're assisting

645
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,520
 them in doing of what we asked of them a decade ago, and so I don't see any protections built

646
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,520
 into option four, and I'm just wondering if you envision any mechanism whatsoever in which

647
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:13,520
 that could be incorporated for those legacy users, but protecting the financial sustainability

648
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,520
 of DME in the long term by phasing off that pot of money that we're allocating because

649
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,520
 it no longer makes the most bang for a buck in reducing that demand, as you said, instead

650
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,520
 of just offsetting.

651
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:32,520
 That's a great question, and grandfathering is an option, albeit it be a very difficult

652
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,520
 option with our current billing system, so you have two things there.

653
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:42,520
 You have a technical -- I don't want to stay constrained, but challenge from a billing

654
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,520
 system standpoint, and then you also have an administrative challenge from trying to

655
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:54,520
 track these systems through whatever period we make that grandfathering period at, whether

656
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,520
 it's 5, 10, or 15 years or forever.

657
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:05,520
 It's just going to continue to be a challenge to manage as we move forward, but it's certainly

658
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,520
 something that I anticipate is going to come up in the city council conversations as well,

659
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:19,520
 so I think the jury's still out on that, but yes, it is something that is top on our minds

660
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,520
 because there are going to be a lot of customers out there that aren't going to be happy when

661
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:24,520
 we change the program.

662
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,520
 Ed has another question.

663
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:37,520
 Yeah, on the California plan that was recently passed, grandfather's existing -- and people,

664
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,520
 the California plan removed that majoring, and the people who -- what they've done is

665
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:50,520
 they've put in a grandfathering of people who already have their systems.

666
00:43:50,520 --> 00:44:00,520
 They give them 20 years from the date of their installation as a grandfather's period before

667
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:09,520
 their net metering is taken away from them, and if California, which has over a million

668
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:16,520
 solar installations, can work out a program like that, I would think that we could find

669
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:21,520
 ways to do that as well.

670
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:31,520
 As a solar owner, I'm thinking for other people that they're going to be severely shocked

671
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:40,520
 when they learn this, especially those of us who took advantage, although I didn't take

672
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:46,520
 advantage of the program, the program is the result of our solar system being put in almost

673
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:55,520
 17 years ago, and I know a lot of people who have obviously made use of these rebates and

674
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:07,520
 incentives, and to just pull this out from under their feet is not good, basically, and

675
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:13,520
 one can make whatever excuses they want, you can juggle numbers any way you want, but that's

676
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:21,520
 just bad business, and I say that as a vested interest as a solar owner.

677
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:31,520
 So I would really appreciate it if you would really look into some sort of grandfathering

678
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:41,520
 policy, or at least something that does it gradually rather than these huge amounts year

679
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:42,520
 by year.

680
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,520
 I mean, my child, you should have heard what my wife said.

681
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,520
 Are you not in favor of any of the options?

682
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:55,520
 I'm in favor of option four if there is a grandfather.

683
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:02,520
 And the point you make is a very valid one, and that is why we're here in front of you

684
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,520
 now, before it becomes a huge issue.

685
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:11,520
 We're talking about 605 systems that have gotten the rebate, but overall we're talking

686
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:17,520
 about a little over 1,000 systems that have benefited by our rate structure so far.

687
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:23,520
 So we will certainly have those conversations, have a deeper dive with customer service from

688
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:28,520
 the billing standpoint, those technical constraints.

689
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:34,520
 But again, I fully anticipate that being a big talking point in city council as well.

690
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,520
 So I have two members, option four is for grandfathering discussions.

691
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:45,520
 Adam, just option four, or are you interested in also the grandfathering?

692
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,520
 I'm also interested in the grandfathering if it's possible.

693
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:51,520
 Paul?

694
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:56,520
 Yeah, my starting point, just based on the presentation, was four.

695
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,520
 It's crystal clear.

696
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,520
 The point of my inquiry before was to make sure I was hearing whether there was an opposing

697
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:09,520
 case that wasn't in there, and the fact that you all found that persuasive was meaningful

698
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:10,520
 to me.

699
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,520
 And the grandfathering, I think, makes sense in terms of keeping faith with people who

700
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,520
 took a deal based on a set of assumptions.

701
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:25,520
 The one thing that's not that is intriguing to me, Kelly, was your comment about what

702
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,520
 if the subsidy was strictly for battery?

703
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:35,520
 And I wonder if we might hear in the future, or if it's not possible to hear now, if the

704
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:41,520
 calculation is different in terms of the benefit for the dollar if it was just subsidizing

705
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,520
 the battery.

706
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,520
 Well, and I don't want to speak for sustainability because we certainly have to have some conversations

707
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:55,520
 around that, but at the point that a customer installs a battery, now they can impact their

708
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,520
 peak demand on our system.

709
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,520
 So it's certainly something worth looking at.

710
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,520
 Go ahead.

711
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:10,520
 So back to the, I mean, the way I understand the big picture is that we have 100% renewable

712
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,520
 coming in now.

713
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:18,520
 So this pot of money, the rebates, where we're still-- so if you put this in line of our

714
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:26,520
 climate action plan, we want to get to net zero by 2050, none of this-- well, this sort

715
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,520
 of touches transportation in an interesting way.

716
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:34,520
 But what this really touches is the housing sector, right, building sector, where we directly

717
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,520
 are consuming fossil fuels, right?

718
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:44,520
 So it seems like this-- I think the main point is that money for any program that makes us

719
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:50,520
 consume fewer fossil fuels directly is just making more of a bank for a buck, right?

720
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,520
 That's the main point.

721
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,520
 I just don't want to lose sight of that.

722
00:48:54,520 --> 00:49:02,520
 So batteries are great in Denton, but a battery is still-- it's already in this loop of 100%

723
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:08,520
 renewables, so I don't see how it's-- that's why I haven't put rooftops over on mine.

724
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:09,520
 In fact, it was your question.

725
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,520
 Like, well, there's maybe some-- but I don't know.

726
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,520
 I feel like we could spend that money on insulation.

727
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,520
 And then we're just sort of scaling that logic up to a whole city.

728
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,520
 Yeah.

729
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,520
 Unless there's gas conversions and things like that.

730
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:24,520
 Yeah.

731
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:31,520
 So I think you have option four here with just the conversations of grandfathering to

732
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,520
 continue on that if possible.

733
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:35,520
 OK.

734
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,520
 And just to correct the record, it's about 7 megawatts that we have right now for residential

735
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:41,520
 rooftops over.

736
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:42,520
 Not two?

737
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:43,520
 Not two.

738
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:44,520
 Seven?

739
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,520
 The last couple years have been exponential, which, again, while in front of you.

740
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:50,520
 Right.

741
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,520
 That's-- I mean, maybe not on the DME.

742
00:49:53,520 --> 00:50:00,520
 Billing might not be great, but for us and demand and usage and renewables and reduced

743
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,520
 greenhouse, that's great.

744
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,520
 And it's going to continue.

745
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:03,520
 Yeah.

746
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:04,520
 And the customers will still put it on.

747
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:05,520
 Thank you so much.

748
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:06,520
 Thank you.

749
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:07,520
 I appreciate you coming back with option four for us.

750
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,520
 No problem.

751
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,520
 Have I answered all your questions?

752
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:10,520
 I think we're good.

753
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:11,520
 All right.

754
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,520
 Thank you.

755
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:13,520
 Thank you.

756
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:14,520
 All right.

757
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:25,520
 So we will move on to item E, receive a report, hold the discussion, and provide feedback

758
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:31,520
 regarding the climate action and adaptation plan development.

759
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:32,520
 Okay.

760
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,520
 And we had our first town hall last night.

761
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,520
 About 40 people came out to the Civic Center for our town hall.

762
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,520
 So I remember you're there.

763
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:36,520
 Thank you all.

764
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:37,520
 And we have Carol Fraser with us today.

765
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:38,520
 We're going to walk through similar presentation to last night, and you'll be able to discuss.

766
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,520
 Okay.

767
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:40,520
 Great.

768
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,520
 Welcome back.

769
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,520
 Hey, all.

770
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:43,520
 Good to be back.

771
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,520
 So I'm Carol Fraser.

772
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:45,520
 I'm with SSG.

773
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:46,520
 And I'm here to talk about climate change.

774
00:50:46,520 --> 00:51:02,520
 And for those of you at the town hall last night, this is pretty similar to what you saw

775
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:03,520
 there.

776
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:04,520
 So apologies for that.

777
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:05,520
 But I'm going to get to more of a discussion.

778
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:06,520
 So she said around 40.

779
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,520
 Is that typically what you see?

780
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:08,520
 And you're around 40 people?

781
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:09,520
 Yeah.

782
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:10,520
 Yeah.

783
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:11,520
 You know what?

784
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,520
 With the pandemic, we've been doing more of those online, and that's been usually about

785
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,520
 the turnout for those online.

786
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:18,520
 And so in person, I think it's still people are still getting used to coming back to that

787
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:19,520
 kind of thing.

788
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,520
 But we felt like it was a really good turnout in terms of, you know, we were standing room

789
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:21,520
 only at one point, I think.

790
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:22,520
 And it was really engaged, letting the discussion.

791
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:23,520
 Great.

792
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,520
 Thanks.

793
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,520
 Sorry.

794
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,520
 Were you able to profile the demographics of who attended?

795
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:46,520
 I'm not sure if we can capture that on the sign-in sheet or anything like that.

796
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,520
 No.

797
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,520
 So we didn't do it systematically in that way.

798
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:56,520
 But we did ask where people came from in the city on our interactive screen.

799
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,520
 And we did have people from all different parts of the city showing up.

800
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,520
 I think that was kind of the main factor that we captured there.

801
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:04,520
 I know.

802
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:05,520
 We're about to dig into it more.

803
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:10,520
 But in going forward, once we do these directed community outreach events, could it be possible

804
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,520
 to capture more of those metrics just to ensure we're reaching those communities that you

805
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,520
 have the intention of meeting?

806
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,520
 I know you did a lot of early kind of discovery about what would be important stakeholders.

807
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:25,520
 It would just be good to try to capture who's actually participating in the process.

808
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,520
 Yeah, sure.

809
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:31,520
 We always do an evaluation form after a session so we can add those kind of questions in there.

810
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,520
 And then we also will be doing a survey.

811
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,520
 And we'll have those kind of demographic questions on the survey as well.

812
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:37,520
 Thank you.

813
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,520
 Appreciate that.

814
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:39,520
 All right.

815
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,520
 Good?

816
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:41,520
 Yeah.

817
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,520
 Okay.

818
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:49,520
 So briefly, the overview for today, we'll just remind you of the project overview as

819
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,520
 a whole.

820
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,520
 We'll go over the inventory report, look at those projections, get into some of our significant

821
00:52:54,520 --> 00:53:00,520
 findings, and then really we want to present to you some initial real carbon action ideas

822
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:05,520
 and then get your feedback on those ideas, what excites you, concerns you about them,

823
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,520
 and other ideas you may have.

824
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:13,520
 So as I'll show in a moment where we are at in the project timeline.

825
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,520
 So we've spent the fall, as you know, we were here presenting to you all about the local

826
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:25,520
 context, understanding, working with sustainability staff, what the current energy use profile

827
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:31,520
 is, and then we're using that to develop those business plan projections.

828
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,520
 Right now we're beginning the process of developing the low carbon pathway.

829
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:41,520
 So that is really the meat of it around the low carbon actions.

830
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,520
 That's what we'll go into the pathway.

831
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,520
 And then further on in the spring we'll be doing an analysis on those final selected

832
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:53,520
 actions around what the costs associated with them would be, what the co-benefits, co-harms,

833
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:59,520
 equity implications would be, et cetera, with the draft coming in May and the final presentation

834
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,520
 in Council of Change.

835
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:08,520
 And as a reminder of the way that our process works in terms of climate action planning

836
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,520
 in general.

837
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:15,520
 So on the top line here, we collect a lot of data.

838
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:21,520
 It's very much a data driven process, including data from engagement, engagement input.

839
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:27,520
 And that is going into the business as usual modeling, which we're presenting today, shows

840
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,520
 you the future emissions production, and then very important to the low carbon modeling

841
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,520
 and developing that pathway.

842
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:41,520
 It's an iterative process, so we are constantly refining based on what we hear.

843
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:48,520
 In terms of y'all's involvement in this process, so we anticipate three more times that we'd

844
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,520
 come here for you and present and ask for your feedback.

845
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,520
 So the next time would be in March.

846
00:54:54,520 --> 00:55:02,520
 We do a workshop around the actions that we've identified and also suggestions around the

847
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,520
 targets that you all would be wanting to achieve with this plan.

848
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,520
 We already have targets, but potentially we could refine them.

849
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,520
 In April, we would want to get a little bit more into the details of the actions and really

850
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,520
 prioritizing among them, which are more important based on criteria that we would collect from

851
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:20,520
 you all.

852
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:26,520
 And then finally in May, we review the draft plan.

853
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:33,520
 So, so far we've developed that baseline greenhouse gas inventory and developed the projection

854
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:38,520
 to 2050 under a business as usual or business as planned scenario, and then we'll be working

855
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,520
 on developing this pathway.

856
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:47,520
 So this inventory report is measuring the emissions that are generated within the city

857
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,520
 of Denton.

858
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:54,520
 That's a geographic emission profile, and it provides a snapshot of the baseline emissions

859
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,520
 for 2019.

860
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:57,520
 That's the base year that we're using.

861
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,520
 It's the year that we have the best data available for.

862
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:04,520
 And it really helps hone in on opportunities where you can use energy more efficiently

863
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,520
 or reduce emissions and manage waste.

864
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:14,520
 So this is an overall picture of the emissions, again, in that territorial calculation for

865
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,520
 the community of Denton.

866
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,520
 And as you can see here, the transportation emissions, especially within scope one and

867
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,520
 scope two, and those are the ones that we've focused on, scope one and scope two, that's

868
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,520
 generated from the activities occurring in Denton, as well as the electricity that you're

869
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:30,520
 procuring.

870
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:37,520
 Again, this is 2019, so it doesn't reflect the 100% DME renewable generation quite yet,

871
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,520
 but you will see that in the projections.

872
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:45,520
 So transportation is really where bulk of your emissions are coming from, and to a lesser

873
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,520
 extent, waste and stationary energy.

874
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:56,520
 So that's all the buildings, residential, commercial, industrial facilities, et cetera.

875
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:02,520
 So we just want to show you all that our model, the way that we're populating our computer

876
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:07,520
 model to look at these projections, is very closely calibrated with the inventories that

877
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,520
 the building staff have already been doing.

878
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:17,520
 So we directly align the activities in our model to the inventory, as you can see here.

879
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:24,520
 There's just a few changes in terms of categorization of some of the emissions between the T&D

880
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:31,520
 losses, we put those into process and fugitive, and there's an extra residential column here

881
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:38,520
 that's just the same as the first one, that's just an error.

882
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:45,520
 So looking at the 2006 inventory to 2019, you can get a sense of how Denton's emissions

883
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,520
 have changed over time.

884
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:54,520
 So the really good news there is that due to more and more renewable electricity being

885
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:59,520
 procured, the residential and commercial sector emissions have gone down quite dramatically,

886
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,520
 and your overall emissions have gone down as a result as well.

887
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:09,520
 So from close to 2 million tons of CO2 equivalent per year, or in that year, 2006, you're down

888
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:14,520
 to 1.3 million, and also your emissions per capita have gone down.

889
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,520
 What hasn't gone down, as you can see, is transportation emissions.

890
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,520
 There have been fuel efficiency increases in vehicles, that kind of thing, but you have

891
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,520
 an increase in population at the same time.

892
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,520
 So you have about the same amount of emissions there, and then with those increases in population,

893
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:37,520
 you do have an increase in waste and wastewater-related emissions, and those TND losses in fugitive

894
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:38,520
 emissions.

895
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:43,520
 So now I'm going to the business plan projections.

896
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:50,520
 So we incorporate demographic trends, that's population increases, expected new employment

897
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:56,520
 growth, business growth, and then any plans, policies, or programs that are either already

898
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:04,520
 in place and expected to continue, or that are planned for, funded, it's going to happen.

899
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,520
 It's a fairly conservative kind of projection.

900
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,520
 So first of all, we incorporate changes in the climate, expected changes based on the

901
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:13,520
 latest science.

902
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,520
 So we're expecting heating degree days to decrease, so it's going to be warmer in the

903
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:19,520
 winter.

904
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,520
 You're going to have to heat your homes in this less, and conversely, cooling degree

905
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:29,520
 days increase in the summer, it's getting hotter.

906
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,520
 We're also projecting a 67% population growth between now and 2050.

907
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:41,520
 This is based on current trends and really what's kind of understood about the trajectory

908
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,520
 that that is on in general.

909
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:48,520
 And then a really big increase in employment growth, and again, based on current trends

910
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:55,520
 around new businesses that are opening here in Denver.

911
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,520
 We are assuming that DME will continue to meet its renewable electricity goal, sounds

912
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:08,520
 like that's their plan too, and that 91% of Denton residents will be using DME for electricity.

913
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,520
 There is a remaining 10% served by the two other utilities.

914
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:20,520
 We're also projecting that natural grass growth, the growth of that use of that fuel, because

915
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:25,520
 people are still going to be using it to heat their homes, would be kind of offset by the

916
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:31,520
 increase in the number of pumps that are being used, and that we would see potentially an

917
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,520
 increase in rooftop solar of 2% annually.

918
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,520
 It sounds like it's been maybe increasing at a faster rate than that, from what I heard

919
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:39,520
 today.

920
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:46,520
 So again, this is somewhat of a conservative projection of that.

921
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:52,520
 We're also keeping, apologies, we're projecting that there's going to be more residences,

922
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:59,520
 more homes, so there will be about 90,000 residences in the future by 2050.

923
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,520
 That the average home size would remain the same at 2,000 square feet.

924
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:09,520
 That there would be a significant amount of new commercial, so non-residential building

925
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,520
 space, 2.6 million square feet.

926
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,520
 And that the trends in how these buildings are heated would remain the same.

927
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,520
 So right now it's about 45% gas, 55% electricity.

928
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,520
 Ben?

929
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,520
 Does the total residences include multi-family?

930
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:27,520
 Yes.

931
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:33,520
 I believe these are housing units.

932
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,520
 This number is housing units, not single family homes.

933
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:38,520
 Thank you.

934
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:43,520
 And then we're also assuming that the majority of homes will have air conditioning units,

935
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:51,520
 not necessarily heat pumps, so that trend would continue.

936
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,520
 In terms of transportation, we're not projecting any pattern mode shifts, so the assumption

937
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:59,520
 that would be most people are still driving to get around, rather than biking, walking,

938
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,520
 or taking transit.

939
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:05,520
 We're incorporating some of the national fuel efficiency improvements in new vehicles

940
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,520
 that extend out to about 2030.

941
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:13,520
 We're projecting that municipal vehicles, so city-of-tem vehicles, would gradually electrify

942
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,520
 in the next few years, as well as personal vehicles.

943
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:22,520
 And it would be based on these projections from NCT Hub around adoption rates.

944
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,520
 For waste, we're keeping the current diversion rate constant, assuming that there aren't

945
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:33,520
 major changes in recycling or composting, and that waste would increase with the population

946
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:34,520
 growth.

947
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:39,520
 For waste and wastewater, we're projecting that there would be slight decreases in water

948
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,520
 use, due to some of the programs we have going on right now.

949
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,520
 But that wastewater emissions would continue to grow in the population.

950
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:47,520
 I have a question.

951
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,520
 I know that there was a solid waste study being done.

952
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,520
 Is that something that you all have looked at to get these numbers?

953
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:54,520
 Yeah, exactly.

954
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:55,520
 Yeah.

955
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,520
 So this 24% diversion rate is based on that comprehensive waste audit?

956
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:01,520
 Yeah.

957
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:02,520
 Okay.

958
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:03,520
 The most recent one.

959
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:09,520
 And just to add to that, the programs that we will implement through the comprehensive

960
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,520
 solid waste management strategy could increase this diversion number.

961
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:17,520
 So as we get more of those programs on the ground, we can reevaluate the diversion and

962
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:18,520
 increase this percentage.

963
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:19,520
 Okay.

964
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:20,520
 Thank you.

965
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:21,520
 Yeah.

966
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,520
 It can be tricky to set a specific number on that, so we do try to err on what do we

967
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:31,520
 know about the waste diversion rate right now and just put that on the board.

968
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:37,520
 So in terms of our projections, this is our business as planned energy use by the fuel

969
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:38,520
 type.

970
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,520
 A couple things stand out.

971
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:46,520
 We do have a small dip around 2023, when those fuel efficiency standards are starting to

972
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:53,520
 happen this year, and that does help with the gasoline use, but beyond a few years, that

973
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:59,520
 takes back up with the number of people who are driving for work or for personal errands.

974
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:04,520
 And then you also have a huge increase in the amount of electricity that's being used,

975
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:10,520
 and really that's being driven by a lot of that commercial floor space that's coming

976
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:11,520
 online.

977
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:16,520
 And then again, that's based on your current mix of building types, so all the types of

978
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:21,520
 businesses that you've seen popping up recently, just kind of projecting those trends.

979
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:30,520
 You are having an increased population as well, and that's a major driver here.

980
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:36,520
 So we are projecting that the per capita energy use would be going up, but the clarification

981
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:41,520
 is there is residential energy use, like the average energy that a person or household

982
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:49,520
 uses in their home would be going down, but because of that increase in commercial and

983
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:55,520
 industrial activity, the overall energy use within the city going up, and you do have

984
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,520
 a slight population increase.

985
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:03,520
 So it's not necessarily something where it's reflecting individual users, the more the

986
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,520
 profile of the city is pulled.

987
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,520
 When we're looking at the sector base, so this is just breaking down with the graph

988
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:19,520
 from two slides ago, really we're not seeing a lot of that growth in the residential sector

989
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,520
 with electricity and energy use.

990
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:27,520
 You'll see some small increases in gas use as well, but really we're seeing again that

991
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:33,520
 electricity is going up in the industrial sector, primarily, and transportation, some

992
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:38,520
 retail electricity going towards electrified vehicles that we're expecting, but primarily

993
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:43,520
 the fuel there would be gasoline and diesel.

994
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:50,520
 And the municipalities are very small in comparison, so they're not really showing up here.

995
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:56,520
 In terms of the emissions that are associated with those energy uses, so starting in 2022

996
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:02,520
 that's when we have the DME supply at 100% renewable, so that's really reducing the

997
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,520
 emissions for most of the electricity being used.

998
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:09,520
 The remaining emissions there are associated with those 10% of other customers not using

999
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:10,520
 DME.

1000
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:16,520
 And then you also have that gasoline and diesel for the transportation uses, causing a lot

1001
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:22,520
 of the emissions going forward, as well as some gas use in buildings still.

1002
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:30,520
 So on the natural gas, is the DME gas generation plant, is that gas built into this business

1003
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:31,520
 as usual?

1004
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:40,520
 So that is associated with essentially, it's out of scope for this inventory, because that

1005
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:45,520
 gas that's being burned at the Denton Energy Center is going back, the electricity is going

1006
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:46,520
 back into the grid.

1007
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:52,520
 So it's associated with the overall emissions factor for aircraft, but since you all are

1008
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:57,520
 not using that electricity directly, you're contracted to get renewable electricity from

1009
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:02,520
 other wind farms primarily, that's what's reflected in this analysis.

1010
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,520
 Okay, so I was just talking about specifically, not the electricity part, but the natural

1011
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,520
 gas use that's being used.

1012
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,520
 To fire the electricity plant?

1013
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:11,520
 Yeah.

1014
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,520
 Yeah, so that wouldn't be in here either.

1015
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:14,520
 Okay.

1016
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:25,520
 I don't understand that, that a local source would not be included in the local inventory.

1017
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:29,520
 So it has to do with the way that our scoping works for this inventory.

1018
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,520
 It's certainly occurring in Denton of course, but it's part of what we call the Scope 3

1019
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:40,520
 emissions scope, which is things that tend to cross the boundaries of a municipality.

1020
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:47,520
 So we're doing a geographic inventory, so that effectively is being accounted for somewhere

1021
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:52,520
 else, namely in the communities that are using grid electricity, which you all are a small

1022
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,520
 percentage of, but mostly your electricity is considerably more.

1023
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:57,520
 Okay, thanks.

1024
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:58,520
 Brandon?

1025
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:03,520
 And this is maybe more to Catherine, and mind me, it's something like 20% of our total emissions

1026
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:07,520
 is municipally sourced, or municipally based.

1027
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,520
 Okay, it's okay if we're not right there.

1028
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:11,520
 Hold on one second.

1029
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:12,520
 I don't know.

1030
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,520
 I think it's quite a bit smaller than that.

1031
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,520
 You're talking about the city of Denton.

1032
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:18,520
 Correct.

1033
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,520
 It's kind of municipal operations in the entire community.

1034
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:21,520
 Yes.

1035
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:22,520
 A little bitty portion of it.

1036
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,520
 It's between 10 and 20.

1037
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:25,520
 Okay.

1038
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:30,520
 So should that then be reflected in the previous graph you showed, that bar graph?

1039
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:31,520
 Yes.

1040
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,520
 Yeah, you know what, maybe we're just missing it now that I've looked at it more closely.

1041
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,520
 We can update this for you to get that in there.

1042
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,520
 And then if I was remembering right, and I know we're pulling back a little far in history,

1043
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:46,520
 we were accounting DEC emissions in that municipal operations.

1044
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:47,520
 Correct.

1045
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:48,520
 Yeah.

1046
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:52,520
 Yeah, maybe that's part of what we're pulling out here.

1047
01:08:52,520 --> 01:09:00,520
 So essentially it would be in this, sorry it's back a ways.

1048
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:04,520
 Yeah, it would fall into this part here.

1049
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,520
 This is a separate line.

1050
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,520
 Yeah, because I don't think we were doing it in 2019.

1051
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,520
 We just started doing it.

1052
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,520
 Yeah, and we do have this figure, I think it's 117,000.

1053
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:19,520
 I drew it into this presentation, but in terms of the emissions, yeah.

1054
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,520
 Can I ask a question?

1055
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,520
 On this too, this is a good question because the risk is double counting.

1056
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:31,520
 You know, because that little bar we have some non-DME customers,

1057
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:35,520
 that's reflecting them buying stuff off the grid,

1058
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,520
 which is where the DEC emissions would show.

1059
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:45,520
 So if we count it here and as our, you see what I'm saying?

1060
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,520
 Yes, we just account for it as going into the grid in general,

1061
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,520
 and then we use a general grid emissions factor for your product.

1062
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:56,520
 So we're not tying that electricity use and emissions specifically to DEC.

1063
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,520
 It's just based on what the aircraft can see.

1064
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,520
 And then I have one other question on a slide that you were on before you started.

1065
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,520
 And I pulled this way back.

1066
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,520
 I just missed it.

1067
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,520
 What is non-energy?

1068
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,520
 So that has to do with process emissions.

1069
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,520
 I'm looking at this right.

1070
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:28,520
 Yeah, so in industrial processes, that's the kind of emissions that come out when you,

1071
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,520
 I'm not sure if there's a lot of steel manufacturing here,

1072
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,520
 but that's kind of an example of those kinds of things.

1073
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,520
 When you're doing chemistry, essentially chemical processes,

1074
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,520
 there are emissions that are associated with that.

1075
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,520
 It's like a byproduct.

1076
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,520
 So it's not from using electricity or burning that as a fuel source.

1077
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:52,520
 It's about when we look at the mix of building types that are in industrial use.

1078
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:58,520
 Part of that is probably going to be some of the fracking operations as well.

1079
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:02,520
 Fracking and drilling, yeah.

1080
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,520
 So it says ton of CO2 equivalent.

1081
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:06,520
 So these are not CO2 emissions.

1082
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,520
 These are some sort of greenhouse gas.

1083
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:15,520
 So most of them are CO2, but we do convert methane and NO2,

1084
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:19,520
 that kind of thing, into a CO2 equivalent just so we can lump it all together

1085
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:26,520
 and look at it in one picture.

1086
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,520
 I just want to comment, I'm glad to see that the non-energy,

1087
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,520
 the actual process is counted because that's pretty important to keep in there.

1088
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:40,520
 So thanks.

1089
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:43,520
 And this is the same thing, so emissions broken down by sector,

1090
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:47,520
 and then we're showing the fuel type that's leading to those emissions.

1091
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:52,520
 So I don't think -- oh, okay, yeah.

1092
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,520
 So fugitive, I think we've kind of pulled out into the non-energy sector.

1093
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,520
 I'm associating with industrial as well,

1094
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,520
 but there's also little leaks in the distribution system,

1095
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,520
 the natural gas distribution system,

1096
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,520
 so that's where some of that non-energy would come from as well.

1097
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,520
 And then waste, that's what's coming out of landfill,

1098
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,520
 not being used as an energy source.

1099
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,520
 But yeah, as you can see here, the kind of main takeaway as well

1100
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,520
 is around transportation and gasoline use.

1101
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:28,520
 That's your biggest fuel source in terms of the emissions being produced.

1102
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:30,520
 So some of the significant findings,

1103
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:34,520
 and we think of these as challenges and opportunities,

1104
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,520
 there's just going to be a lot more demand for electricity

1105
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,520
 that's really being driven by, again, that commercial energy use,

1106
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,520
 so businesses are coming and done, that's awesome.

1107
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,520
 A lot of them are coming in maybe because of the renewable electricity

1108
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,520
 that you have here,

1109
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,520
 and that may help you remain competitive in that way.

1110
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,520
 You also have an opportunity to shake the kinds of distances

1111
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,520
 that might want to come here with that on your side.

1112
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:03,520
 So looking at -- just electricity is going to be such a big part of your energy mix,

1113
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:09,520
 even if you don't change anything from its best quote.

1114
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,520
 It's also getting cleaner and cleaner, which you all know already,

1115
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,520
 it's just going to be a lot less the part of your energy use

1116
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,520
 that's driving your emissions.

1117
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,520
 That's really going to come from your transportation sector

1118
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,520
 and the fuels being used there.

1119
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:27,520
 I've mentioned these fuel efficiency improvements,

1120
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,520
 so they are helping you out from a national level,

1121
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:35,520
 but with that population growth, you will see that take right back up again

1122
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,520
 in terms of the emissions associated with vehicles.

1123
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:41,520
 And we do have a bit of those EVs factored in as well,

1124
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:47,520
 so you can see the kind of comparative contribution that they make.

1125
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,520
 The emissions here are just from the percentage of customers

1126
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:56,520
 who would be using non-DME electricity to power their EVs.

1127
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:57,520
 Is that your question?

1128
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:58,520
 Yes, thank you.

1129
01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:59,520
 I'm sorry?

1130
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:00,520
 Yes.

1131
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,520
 Oh, good. Okay.

1132
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,520
 We've said it once and before, but this is really, I think,

1133
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:11,520
 the biggest opportunity for Denton to think about how can emissions

1134
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:19,520
 in the transportation sector be avoided and reduced in a variety of ways.

1135
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:26,520
 It's your biggest contributing sector in terms of emissions.

1136
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:33,520
 So we've put together some initial ideas for how Denton can meet its net zero targets

1137
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:38,520
 and reduce in these key sectors based on our planning philosophy.

1138
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,520
 We really like to focus on avoiding, you know,

1139
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,520
 recommending activities that can avoid emissions being produced,

1140
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,520
 whether that's through electricity that's needed to supply that energy

1141
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:54,520
 or just the direct use of fuels, reducing energy, energy efficiency,

1142
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:58,520
 the home retrofits and insulation that were mentioned in the previous presentation

1143
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,520
 can really help with that, and then switching to renewables.

1144
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:04,520
 So you reduce your demand as much as possible.

1145
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,520
 It's a lot easier to find that renewable electricity

1146
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,520
 other than letting it kind of grow and grow and become a really difficult link to source.

1147
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:18,520
 And then finally, considering, again, to meet those net zero goals,

1148
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:24,520
 where can you use nature, technology, to sequester emissions or offset

1149
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:31,520
 when you really can't find a way to reduce or replace or avoid them yourself?

1150
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:38,520
 So some ideas are to implement a planning paradigm called 15-minute neighborhoods

1151
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,520
 or 20-minute neighborhoods.

1152
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,520
 This is kind of a holistic way of looking at city planning within a city.

1153
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:49,520
 And really this just means that you would allow residents or enable residents

1154
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:55,520
 to access pretty much all their daily needs within a 10 or 15-minute walk from their house.

1155
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,520
 It's about a half a mile or so.

1156
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,520
 And there's a whole bunch of co-benefits to doing this,

1157
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,520
 in addition to the emissions reductions.

1158
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,520
 I really would like to think with this lens from the beginning,

1159
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,520
 what are kind of the other benefits that could come from this economic development,

1160
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,520
 mental and physical health, the air pollution, that kind of thing.

1161
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,520
 So this is kind of in the avoid category.

1162
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,520
 Paul has a question. Oh, I'm sorry.

1163
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,520
 Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm coming in, you know, when you're sort of deep in the process,

1164
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:28,520
 but is this sort of high-level concept or is this something that, you know,

1165
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:37,520
 has been implemented where there's a body of work like specific zoning recommendations?

1166
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:41,520
 You know, is there a kind of toolkit that would ultimately be the recommendation?

1167
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,520
 For sure, for sure, yeah.

1168
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,520
 So there would be a whole bunch of steps that we would recommend to them to take,

1169
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:51,520
 among them looking at zoning, parking requirements, lot size,

1170
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,520
 like these kinds of things where, you know, how do you build communities that are more compact

1171
01:16:55,520 --> 01:17:01,520
 and then maybe allowing with the zoning thing like certain kinds of uses in more areas.

1172
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:06,520
 Those would be the kind of recommendations that we might make under this kind of framework.

1173
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:12,520
 There's a lot, so, you know, there could be bike lanes, there could be lots of stuff, yeah.

1174
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:19,520
 On a similar note, considering making places that are pedestrian only or kind of low traffic,

1175
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,520
 giving a different feel that could have benefits in terms of economic development,

1176
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,520
 where people want to gather, where they want to shop,

1177
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,520
 and that could be in specific areas of town.

1178
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,520
 Lots of cities are looking into this or planning this.

1179
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:38,520
 Around university campuses, you have a downtown Denny plan that's about to kick off.

1180
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:43,520
 That could be something to look into there. And you also have master plan communities.

1181
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:48,520
 Consider how you can integrate these kinds of things into new places that haven't been built.

1182
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,520
 And also slow, healthy streets, something coming out of the pandemic in a lot of places

1183
01:17:53,520 --> 01:18:02,520
 where there's just traffic calming that really helps people want to choose more active modes of transportation.

1184
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:09,520
 You also have a lot of assets already here in Denton around low carbon transportation in an economic development sense.

1185
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:15,520
 You have Peterbilt Motors, they're building electric trucks right here in town.

1186
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,520
 You have Cargo Bikes Manufacturing.

1187
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,520
 You could really leverage that in terms of business to business relationships

1188
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:30,520
 or becoming a kind of hub of, you know, hub of the planes around low carbon transportation.

1189
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,520
 So thinking about it holistically can be a useful framework.

1190
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:40,520
 And that would involve setting up economic development incentives for certain kinds of businesses

1191
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:49,520
 or for businesses to use certain kinds of practices that are low carbon ways of getting their goods shipped around.

1192
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:53,520
 Renewable energy, so hot topic of the day.

1193
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:59,520
 So there may be a variety of ways to think about how you could add more renewable energy here in town.

1194
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:07,520
 I had a question, oh I think he's gone now, but there's residential solar incentives.

1195
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,520
 You could also think about commercial, what kind of commercial solar incentives.

1196
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,520
 I can't think off the top of my head if you already have that.

1197
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:18,520
 Or around battery storage, that kind of thing.

1198
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,520
 It can increase your resilience locally.

1199
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:29,520
 Another kind of consideration around sustainability of that is you have what's called transmission line losses

1200
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,520
 on power that's coming to you from far away.

1201
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,520
 It can be as high as seven or eight percent of the electricity.

1202
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,520
 It can be just kind of lost because it has to travel a long distance.

1203
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:46,520
 So the more that you have kind of here locally, you're actually kind of getting more electricity potentially out of the farms that are here.

1204
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,520
 So it's something to consider in terms of adding it more locally.

1205
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,520
 You also have the jobs that come along with that.

1206
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:57,520
 So we think about sustainability and climate action pretty holistically as I said,

1207
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,520
 and all the co-benefits that come along with some of these actions.

1208
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,520
 So that's another consideration.

1209
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:03,520
 Paul?

1210
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:08,520
 You must have been jumping out of your seat during the earlier discussion.

1211
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:20,520
 What do you make of the argument that was shown to be persuasive that you're not changing the sustainability profile then

1212
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:26,520
 by adding more because it's already being supplied by renewable sources?

1213
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:34,520
 And I get the transmission point, although we're not actually bringing the atoms from the wind farm in Munster.

1214
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:42,520
 We're taking the electrons from the near end of the grid.

1215
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,520
 So we are more at the first point.

1216
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:50,520
 What do you make of that argument that doesn't add to the sustainability profile because we're already out of our holes?

1217
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,520
 Well, I think someone brought up that there's going to be more demand.

1218
01:20:54,520 --> 01:21:00,520
 So it's another way of adding that to your system, but may not be at the lowest cost.

1219
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:05,520
 So it may be at the direct cost of paying for those resources.

1220
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:11,520
 But there may be the co-benefits economically for the city of Denton having more solar installation jobs, for example,

1221
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:16,520
 and having the economic activity and the tax revenue that comes along with that.

1222
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:22,520
 Thinking about it, not just the electricity that you're procuring and the cost of that, but what are the other benefits?

1223
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:28,520
 That's what I would recommend in terms of what was presented to you all today.

1224
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:36,520
 The thing that makes sense is really investments in energy efficiency, insulation, retrofits.

1225
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:40,520
 That's really key. That's avoiding energy use in the first place.

1226
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:49,520
 If that's what's more cost effective for your municipal utility, it makes a lot of sense because switching, that's the third step.

1227
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:52,520
 Avoiding is the first step.

1228
01:21:52,520 --> 01:22:00,520
 You might want to consider there are the federal incentives for solar installations.

1229
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:03,520
 I don't think they're necessarily tied to income.

1230
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:09,520
 I'm not sure off the top of my head, but maybe thinking about lower income households versus higher income households,

1231
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:19,520
 like helping some of them have more of an incentive to install solar based on income could be another way of thinking about the equity implications of what's being presented

1232
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:25,520
 and how you want to go forward with solar remakes or battery remakes, any kind of thing.

1233
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,520
 What is the picture down here? Is that a battery?

1234
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:35,520
 Yeah, this is a battery. This is just a company called Sunbridge Energy.

1235
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:42,520
 I don't know anything about them, but they have a single family home cell battery that I think could be disconnected.

1236
01:22:42,520 --> 01:23:04,520
 In terms of actions in the building sector, thinking about what kind of standards you could have for new construction, net zero building standards.

1237
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:14,520
 This is kind of in line with what we were just talking about. You have low income weatherization programs already to look at expanding those,

1238
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,520
 changing them to really drive significant reductions in energy use.

1239
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:25,520
 Rebates for the heat pumps and more efficient appliances. I think this is something else that the utility is putting forward.

1240
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,520
 That's really a great way to save energy use.

1241
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:37,520
 And then looking at big users of energy, these big larger commercial multifamily buildings, existing and new ones,

1242
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:45,520
 to look at the energy that they're currently using and think about how to reduce that over time through benchmarking programs.

1243
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:54,520
 Finally, with waste and wastewater, there are examples of communities really using education to reduce food waste specifically.

1244
01:23:54,520 --> 01:24:00,520
 So investing in that can really change your diversion rate and drive down your landfill emissions.

1245
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:11,520
 Also things like diverting compost. You have your own trash collection, so you can consider having a composting facility and collecting those as a separate product.

1246
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:17,520
 You could expand some of the electricity production that is going on with landfill gas already.

1247
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:28,520
 And then consider how your wastewater treatment can become more energy efficient using some of the heat that's being generated in those processes to actually drive the electricity that's being used.

1248
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:32,520
 Again, initial ideas, so we'd love to know what you think.

1249
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:38,520
 I'll just quickly give you a sense of the upcoming public engagement opportunities.

1250
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:46,520
 So we did have the town hall last night. We're going to have another community workshop on the actions coming up, I think in March.

1251
01:24:46,520 --> 01:25:02,520
 And then we're developing a meeting in a box. This is like a toolkit that community groups can use or staff can be invited out to community groups to go through some of these ideas and more depth and collect feedback from a wide variety of people.

1252
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,520
 So we'll have that ready in the next few weeks.

1253
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:14,520
 We're going to have specific focus groups to go into some of the kind of implementation questions and the equity implications of these actions.

1254
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:26,520
 And we'll also be putting out a survey sometime in February. This one survey will begin and will be open for a good period, probably about a month.

1255
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:35,520
 And that's going to allow us to collect a lot of input on the actions and all the implications of them. So we're keeping up to date on the website here.

1256
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:46,520
 Will the survey be on the city of Denton website or will it be like something separate or will it be accessible easily?

1257
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:58,520
 I don't know who's going to host the survey, but we'll have links on our website and then we'll of course share it social media and ask everyone to share about it as widely as possible.

1258
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:05,520
 And we're putting something in the flyer too, right? Is that related to the survey or?

1259
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,520
 In the bill stuffer.

1260
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:08,520
 Yeah, in the bill stuffer, yes.

1261
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:10,520
 Why not in the bill stuffer? That's what it is.

1262
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:15,520
 Yeah, so that'll get a wide distribution.

1263
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:23,520
 And this is just to reiterate who we're considering that are interested in effective parties, sometimes known as stakeholders.

1264
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:31,520
 So this is who we're engaging with via the focus groups, specific community and sector representatives.

1265
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:41,520
 Engaging with you all and then city staff and project team. We're meeting every other week, if not more often sometimes, and community members in general for all those other channels.

1266
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:52,520
 Everything that's going into this will ultimately be put into that draft plan and then going up to city council for their final approval.

1267
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:57,520
 We'll be developing this wedge diagram specifically for the community vendors.

1268
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:04,520
 So each action that we put into the model will be reflected here in terms of the emissions reduction potential over time.

1269
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:12,520
 So each colored wedge is kind of one action or however we define one action can sometimes be a bundle of them.

1270
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:21,520
 And then we'll also show you that in relation to what I just showed you, the business client projections.

1271
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,520
 We'll also have other kind of outputs in the draft plan.

1272
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:33,520
 We do have spatially based models, so you'll be able to see the projected emissions in each scenario by zone of the city.

1273
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:38,520
 This is based on traffic zone or transportation zone from NCTCOG, the way that they do their modeling.

1274
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:47,520
 And we can produce other kind of analysis like you see here.

1275
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:53,520
 And yeah, we're really in the, as you saw this one earlier, but we're really in the thick of getting input on the actions,

1276
01:27:53,520 --> 01:28:00,520
 putting that into our model and then developing the wedge diagram that I just showed you there.

1277
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:09,520
 So at this point, I'd really like to know, in the time that we have, any other thoughts on the actions I presented?

1278
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:14,520
 If you have other ideas that you'd like us to consider modeling?

1279
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:21,520
 Yeah, I have just kind of process thoughts about how you attended the workshop last night.

1280
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:27,520
 You know, it's all good and interesting, but from this perspective,

1281
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:35,520
 with most value members of the general public getting to spend time on is hearing more about the ideas.

1282
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:41,520
 Like I almost, to be a little prescriptive, start on slide 40, like we're here, we've got to get to here.

1283
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:44,520
 Here are different ways we might do it.

1284
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:51,520
 And I would like to know what people find acceptable, imaginable, what questions, what concerns they have on each,

1285
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:55,520
 you know, what they really get behind out of those ideas.

1286
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,520
 That's my main feedback.

1287
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:02,520
 The other one's just a process question, and the answer may be, yeah, we totally already done that, Paul.

1288
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:14,520
 Which is, was there a stage where, you know, looked at what are the best ideas in place anywhere in the world

1289
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:20,520
 that may not directly apply to them, but maybe looked at sideways could, you know, just,

1290
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:28,520
 is this the boil out of, you know, kind of the state of sustainability in the world today that could be relevant?

1291
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:35,520
 For sure. Yeah, so in terms of your first question, that's exactly what we'll be doing in our next public workshop,

1292
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,520
 is getting more into the actions.

1293
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:41,520
 There won't be the presentation of the projections beyond probably one slide.

1294
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:47,520
 And then we will get into, you know, the specifics of what do folks find acceptable,

1295
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,520
 and that's where the prioritization comes in as well.

1296
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,520
 Like if you had to choose between the city doing this and the city doing this,

1297
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,520
 what are your priorities, what are they based on? We'll be getting a sense of that.

1298
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:03,520
 With your second question, that is exactly the phase that we're in right now.

1299
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:09,520
 So, you know, our initial ideas are based on what we're finding in the business' plan projections.

1300
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:14,520
 This is where you'd want to concentrate, transportation, buildings, that kind of thing.

1301
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:19,520
 But we are developing what we call an actions catalog that we're working with the city staff on.

1302
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,520
 We'll be reviewing that really carefully and then taking that and saying,

1303
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:27,520
 here are the recommended actions based on the best practices from around the world.

1304
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:31,520
 We've worked with over 100 communities doing this kind of thing.

1305
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:36,520
 Do you want to complete that phase and then bring that to the general public to say,

1306
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:42,520
 you know, here's kind of outside of the box, but proven things beyond what you've already got?

1307
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:47,520
 Yeah, that's what we'll be doing in the next phase of the engagement.

1308
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:48,520
 Brian?

1309
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:54,520
 It was kind of two thoughts here and you were first in and you first presented yourself

1310
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,520
 and the outline of what this would follow.

1311
01:30:56,520 --> 01:31:01,520
 I made a note that I know this is a really technocratic space and it's difficult,

1312
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:05,520
 especially for people in your position, and I know the sustainability office is familiar with this too,

1313
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:11,520
 but to interpret the really technocratic expertise you have down to a common level of understanding.

1314
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:15,520
 And so I appreciated the step-by-step that you had last night.

1315
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:19,520
 Two thoughts that I kind of reflected on was even looking at this again,

1316
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:24,520
 I know if you weren't here in front of me on some of these things explaining scope one, scope two admissions,

1317
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,520
 that would be something I would have to look up regardless.

1318
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:33,520
 And maybe building in like a glossary of terms and definitions into these types of presentations might make them,

1319
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:35,520
 I know this is now on public record because it's in our backup,

1320
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:43,520
 but make this a lot more digestible to people who might not have the same level of access to this one-on-one that we get with you.

1321
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:52,520
 But then, too, and on Paul's thought, when you are in this position of really idiosyncratic and technical capacity,

1322
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:56,520
 that detangling these really complex problems is a huge challenge,

1323
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:59,520
 and I know you know this because you've done this, as you said, a hundred different times,

1324
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:07,520
 but given that there are evidence-based best practices that have been adopted both in the local context

1325
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,520
 and the national and global context that I'm sure you're familiar with,

1326
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:18,520
 and folks like Ed who are deep in the weeds know a lot of these different models and practices that other communities have adopted,

1327
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:25,520
 beyond getting just prescriptive about it, I would really like to see in these upcoming workshops just, again,

1328
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:30,520
 really honing in on that base level of understanding about here's what's been done, how it could impact your community,

1329
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:37,520
 but bringing that down to that base level of understanding that there are recommendations you're going to make,

1330
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:44,520
 but it still has to be uptaped by our community, you know, with the specific backgrounds and experiences that we have as residents,

1331
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:51,520
 and so I hope that can be navigated well, but it's something that I'm really looking forward to seeing in these future workshops.

1332
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:58,520
 Yeah, I really appreciate that. I think we can definitely include, as you say, some more classrooms and that kind of thing in our presentations.

1333
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:03,520
 I think the meeting in a box will also help, I think, with some of the things you're bringing up.

1334
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:11,520
 It's going to be a pretty accessible thing, because we're not going to be there to deliver something that people can do themselves,

1335
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:20,520
 so it will kind of break things down in that way, and then I think, you know, it is kind of a dance or a balance between,

1336
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:25,520
 we don't want to prescribe to you all, you know, specific actions.

1337
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:33,520
 We really want to know, from a community, what are people passionate about and what's kind of already being worked on, you know, what's out in the ether.

1338
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:40,520
 So last night was kind of that, like, let's gather the initial thoughts, and then, yeah, going forward, I think we can really break in on the table.

1339
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:44,520
 You know, here are the things that work elsewhere, based on what you told us, what you're excited about,

1340
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:51,520
 because I think at the end of the day, you know, we help you make the plan, and then, you know, we kind of leave it in to you all to implement it,

1341
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:56,520
 and so it's really important to have that community excitement and enthusiasm.

1342
01:33:56,520 --> 01:34:02,520
 But I really appreciate that, and I'm going to take that back and incorporate your feedback.

1343
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:06,520
 So I enjoyed the feedback and discussion so far.

1344
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:17,520
 My question is, and this may be more to the city, is there any possible way it can be recorded or, like, live-streamed or anything, the meetings?

1345
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:23,520
 I mean, because 40 people is great, but we have 30, you know, we have thousands and thousands of people in our city,

1346
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:30,520
 and there's just no way of going back, you know, like, for those who can't make it.

1347
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:35,520
 So I'm just curious if that's at all possible.

1348
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:39,520
 It gets a little bit difficult with the interactive part of the meeting.

1349
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:49,520
 We can probably stream a presentation portion, but when we're all up moving around and talking in small groups, it gets a little bit difficult.

1350
01:34:49,520 --> 01:35:03,520
 But I can talk to Billy about, you know, maybe we could do a Zoom link for the presentation portion.

1351
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,520
 I think there's ways that we can, yeah, make it interactive.

1352
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:15,520
 Brave combo plays. They close the meetings. You'll have thousands of people.

1353
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:20,520
 Is that a band? All right, that sounds great. Yeah.

1354
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:23,520
 I think, yeah, like what Catherine said, but I think we can look into it.

1355
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:30,520
 Like, when we had our webinar, I don't know if any of y'all were on that, we have ways that we can use to make those interactive.

1356
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,520
 Maybe we can do some kind of parallel activity.

1357
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:41,520
 I think with reporting, we would probably need the permission of folks there, you know, if there's that element.

1358
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:46,520
 But we do want to make it accessible to people who can't make it out there physically.

1359
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:50,520
 It's definitely a consideration, so we can work on that.

1360
01:35:50,520 --> 01:36:02,520
 And my other question is, will you be coming back to present to this committee after each community meeting, or is that not?

1361
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:08,520
 Let me find the, in general, yes, I think that's the answer.

1362
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:14,520
 We are kind of time number two. Yeah, this one here.

1363
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:21,520
 So we will have other kind of community meetings in March and April, and we'll be presenting to you all around the same time.

1364
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:25,520
 Okay, sounds good. Adam?

1365
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,520
 Yeah, I missed a couple meetings. I was out of the country.

1366
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:32,520
 So I don't know if this is to you or to the committee.

1367
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:36,520
 Why or when did this become the Climate Action and Adaptation Plan?

1368
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,520
 Is that what it's being called now?

1369
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:44,520
 Can you explain? I thought we were just calling it Climate Action Plan.

1370
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,520
 So I don't know who to direct this question to, sorry.

1371
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:52,520
 It's always been Action and Adaptation.

1372
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:53,520
 It has?

1373
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:57,520
 That's a, that's what our committee responded to.

1374
01:36:57,520 --> 01:37:00,520
 That's the term of art. Would you say?

1375
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:04,520
 It really varies. You know, some communities, it's a Climate Action Plan.

1376
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,520
 Some communities, it's Climate Action and Adaptation.

1377
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:12,520
 Some communities, it's Community Energy and Climate Action Plan.

1378
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:14,520
 I've seen all sorts of them.

1379
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,520
 Community, Climate Action and Resilience Plan.

1380
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:22,520
 So, you know, what you call it is one thing. What's in it is probably the more important part.

1381
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:27,520
 So, yeah, that's the framework we're going to, but it's kind of the same idea.

1382
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:32,520
 So I'm asking now because it's, maybe it's too late, but it's kind of a conceptual question.

1383
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:37,520
 So it makes it sound like adaptation isn't an action.

1384
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:43,520
 And it sort of pulls out adaptation as something special when the presentation doesn't mention adaptation.

1385
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:46,520
 It's all mitigation, as far as I can tell.

1386
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:51,520
 So if we're going to pinch it as a Climate Action and Adaptation Plan, we ought to talk about adaptation more.

1387
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:59,520
 I know some of those actions that are adaptation overlap with mitigation actions, like weatherizing homes and such.

1388
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:01,520
 But some of them do not.

1389
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:08,520
 And so I would prefer, just because it's simpler and I think it's more representative, to just call it a Climate Action Plan.

1390
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,520
 And that would include everything.

1391
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:16,520
 Or if we're going to continue to call it this, we ought to emphasize more one of the words that's in it.

1392
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:24,520
 Mitigation is super important, but right now it seems like that's, we start with, OK, here's our zero carbon goal.

1393
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:27,520
 And here's all the sectors of emissions and stuff.

1394
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:35,520
 But we don't really talk about how you build a city that's more resilient to the weather changes that we know are coming.

1395
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:41,520
 So either I think we need to emphasize that more or change the name or both is my suggestion.

1396
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:43,520
 Maybe it's too late.

1397
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:51,520
 I think as we get into the actions, we're going to see more of the adaptation piece.

1398
01:38:51,520 --> 01:39:00,520
 Because when we start talking about planning and how we're developing different areas of the city,

1399
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:06,520
 if we're making them more walkable, then we start to encompass that.

1400
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:17,520
 That's certainly our focus is working to maximize both with a bit more emphasis on the mitigation due to your net zero goals.

1401
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,520
 That's within the scope of what we're developing.

1402
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:29,520
 I think there is an opportunity to look more at resilience and adaptation, perhaps kind of outside of the work that we're doing specifically.

1403
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:32,520
 But there's a lot that can be done there.

1404
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:36,520
 And our focus is going to be more on where do those things overlap and the mitigation.

1405
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:46,520
 But yeah, I understand what you're saying because this committee talked about more resilience with the climate crisis coming.

1406
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:50,520
 And that was one of the reasons why we approved this and discussed this.

1407
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:55,520
 And so it's not just about reducing emissions for us.

1408
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,520
 There's more to it.

1409
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:02,520
 And so that's where the conversation is coming from.

1410
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:03,520
 Does that make sense?

1411
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:08,520
 Yeah, I think it will come out in the actions.

1412
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:16,520
 Oh, I was going to say I can understand completely what Adam's saying because I'm talking to people about adaptation.

1413
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:23,520
 It really removes the urgency of what the actual problem is.

1414
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:27,520
 And oh, if we can adapt, everything will be fine.

1415
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:33,520
 And I know that your presentations do not say that.

1416
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:48,520
 And so I think the more we stay on the path that we're on with the idea of reducing, the adaptation comes in reducing the emissions basically.

1417
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:56,520
 Yeah, I'd also say a lot of the actions are going to increase resilience to extreme weather around the buildings especially.

1418
01:40:56,520 --> 01:41:01,520
 And resilience kind of in a larger sense around fuel prices.

1419
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,520
 That's a huge uncertainty in climate change as well.

1420
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:08,520
 So I think that will come out more in that.

1421
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:17,520
 Yeah, and just in talking to people, there's some people in this town who think this is a bunch of baloney.

1422
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:21,520
 I talk to people and they say, oh, you can't fix your roads.

1423
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:23,520
 How are you going to do this?

1424
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:36,520
 So there's something where the more practical, pragmatic, this will help this, this will help that, this will ensure a healthier future.

1425
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,520
 All positives because all you get from the other side are negatives.

1426
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:40,520
 For sure.

1427
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:45,520
 I think our financial analysis in later stages will also help to demonstrate some of that.

1428
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:51,520
 Where you'll be saving money ultimately while you're reducing emissions.

1429
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:52,520
 All right.

1430
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:54,520
 Paul, you have something else or?

1431
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:58,520
 Yeah, well, you had asked whether there are other things that you're interested in.

1432
01:41:58,520 --> 01:41:59,520
 Go ahead.

1433
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:13,520
 So I didn't see anything about the climate action impacts of preserving green space, adding to tree canopy, that whole area.

1434
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,520
 Environmental aspects.

1435
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:27,520
 Yeah, we typically include that as part of the carbon sequestration options for residual emissions that couldn't be reduced or avoided somehow.

1436
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:36,520
 Many communities, that's the case where then you're looking at how many trees could be planted or how could we change agricultural practices within the city.

1437
01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:38,520
 So yeah, we can definitely do this.

1438
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:40,520
 This is kind of my point.

1439
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:43,520
 This is a good illustration.

1440
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:47,520
 That's one framing of it, but it's maybe too narrow.

1441
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:50,520
 I like your talk about co-benefits and all of that.

1442
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:57,520
 So planting trees, if we want to get people to walk more, it will be nice if it was shadier.

1443
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:06,520
 And it helps with air quality and it helps with a whole bunch of other things, including resilience if we can reduce heat island effects.

1444
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:17,520
 So I think it will be important as we move forward, just echoing Ed, that we talk about all the co-benefits of this, of every action that we're talking about.

1445
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:21,520
 Because to me this is the most ambitious thing the city is doing.

1446
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:25,520
 It's just, I think it's really amazing.

1447
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:32,520
 And it will be, there's going to be folks who are skeptical, but if we can learn to talk in different ways about all the benefits of this.

1448
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:38,520
 And even if we don't hit our targets that are really quantified, if we make steps towards it, it has all of these co-benefits.

1449
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:43,520
 It's a good framework to talk about all of the ways we can improve.

1450
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:45,520
 That's really helpful. I appreciate that.

1451
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:50,520
 I think at the end of the day so many of these actions are going to make Benton a better place to live.

1452
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,520
 That can be the overall takeaway for sure.

1453
01:43:53,520 --> 01:44:00,520
 Cleaner air, lower energy bills, better jobs, all of those things.

1454
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:05,520
 I think that builds on Adam's comment.

1455
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:10,520
 It's a bit anecdotal, but I would say it's still true.

1456
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:19,520
 That possibly the most popular grand plan that the city has presented to the public in the last several years is the trails plan.

1457
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:27,520
 When Parks and Rec was asked, asked the public in many workshop type settings, what do they want, what do they want? Trails, trails, trails.

1458
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:32,520
 Just in terms of building a case that people could latch onto.

1459
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:34,520
 It's linear parks, it's trees.

1460
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:43,520
 Also, incidentally, when you talk about light paths, that conversation migrated toward the desire for off-road paths.

1461
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:52,520
 So I'm just kind of indicating there's, as you've talked about, preserving green space and kind of ancillary benefits.

1462
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:57,520
 I can put it on, you put it very well.

1463
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:01,520
 The trails business is the hook.

1464
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:08,520
 That would be in the next meeting, targets, and you took the slide.

1465
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:12,520
 I'm trying to find the co-benefits.

1466
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:21,520
 So the discussions that this group is talking about interested in would be in the discussion for March or April.

1467
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:24,520
 These are all meetings that we would have.

1468
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:26,520
 Sorry, what's your question?

1469
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:32,520
 The discussions that we're having now, like in the actions, would that come in March or April?

1470
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:34,520
 More specific.

1471
01:45:34,520 --> 01:45:36,520
 More specific recommended actions.

1472
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:45,520
 That's going to start in March and then continue into the April meeting where we can have a whole suite of ones that would be considered.

1473
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:52,520
 But we want to prioritize, we want to understand the city's not going to be able to do everything at once or has limited resources.

1474
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:55,520
 So which one's the most important? That will be in the April discussion.

1475
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:57,520
 Okay. All right. Thank you.

1476
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:06,520
 But we're open to your input from now until through April, so if you've got other thoughts.

1477
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:07,520
 Well, thank you so much.

1478
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:08,520
 Thank you.

1479
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:09,520
 Thank you.

1480
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:15,520
 So we will move on to our last item or to item F, staff reports.

1481
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:20,520
 There is the February engagement and then the matrix.

1482
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:26,520
 And February engagement was just an update of what we have coming up.

1483
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:35,520
 And then if we have any questions to the matrix, I'm going to have it pulled up over here so I can hear you guys.

1484
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:40,520
 I am curious, there are a couple of items on tree canopy.

1485
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:46,520
 Ed has one for carbon sequestration.

1486
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:48,520
 Say that really fast too.

1487
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:55,520
 And I asked for like the tree canopy goals for the future.

1488
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:57,520
 So we will have Haywood come back.

1489
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:03,520
 If we could just mesh everything that says tree canopy together and knock some of these off.

1490
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:05,520
 Is that one presentation?

1491
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:06,520
 We'll do that.

1492
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:07,520
 Okay.

1493
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:08,520
 All right.

1494
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:09,520
 Thanks.

1495
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,520
 Are we putting things on the matrix yet?

1496
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:13,520
 We can.

1497
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:15,520
 Do you want to do that now?

1498
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,520
 Yeah, go ahead.

1499
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:24,520
 I have two, possibly three things.

1500
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:32,520
 And I probably should have asked this when DNE was here, but the status is commercial and industrial.

1501
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:45,520
 Solar installations, how are they going to be impacted by this new policy, or if the policy even applies to them?

1502
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:55,520
 And I'm assuming that, or I don't even know if there are incentives for industrial.

1503
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:56,520
 That's what I'm not sure about.

1504
01:47:56,520 --> 01:47:58,520
 I don't know if it applies to industrial.

1505
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:05,520
 Yeah, so that would, I think that should be part of the conversation.

1506
01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:13,520
 Schools, DISD, would they be impacted by this?

1507
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:32,520
 The other thing is, there's a thing called islanding, which is a process where a grid-tied solar system, when the grid goes down, the system can continue to work.

1508
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:41,520
 As it is right now in Denton, any grid-tied PV system goes down when the grid goes down.

1509
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:52,520
 But there are ways that the generator, the PV system, can remain on even when the grid goes down.

1510
01:48:52,520 --> 01:49:05,520
 From what I've been told, it's largely a matter of safety protocols, so if guys have to go out and work on the lines, they're not going to get executed, electrocuted.

1511
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:17,520
 There was a little discussion about this a number of years ago, and I just wondered if there had been any development with that.

1512
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:41,520
 And then one last question, the rates, if you use more power in the winter months, November through April, you get a discount. First 600 kilowatt hours are .0684, and any additional kilowatt hours after that are .0455.

1513
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:52,520
 And I wondered if the rationale for that is still germane to the situation, seeing as how we've just seen how we're going to have more hot days and less cold days.

1514
01:49:52,520 --> 01:50:04,520
 Assuming that winter months are because people jacked up their thermostats because of cold.

1515
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:13,520
 So Ed, would you like just a staff report on this last one, or do you want a presentation to this? Well, whatever form it takes, the most official way.

1516
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:24,520
 So the rationale for the winter? Yeah, why the winter rates, why there's a discount in the rate after the first 600 kilowatt hours.

1517
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:36,520
 And it's not that way in the summer. Summer months are .0684. There's no reduction if you use more power in the summer.

1518
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:43,520
 And it seems like that's sort of the catch-22 for the rate payer, the way things are coming up.

1519
01:50:43,520 --> 01:51:01,520
 I need to look at the rate structure, but I'm wondering if they're thinking that the lower usage, that you're using less electricity in the winter, based on more houses having natural gas.

1520
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:15,520
 It could be. And that a lot of our multifamily and several of our lower-- Yeah, this is a discussion. Yeah, sorry. Thank you.

1521
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:23,520
 We can save it for the staff report, but if we need to, if they would like to have it more discussion-based, you can do it in a presentation.

1522
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:34,520
 I was getting a little bit, yeah. So is that all for the matrix? Yeah, thank you. Okay, Brian?

1523
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:45,520
 Items number two and four. I know Matt had a request of one, and we did half of item number four that I-- What are you saying? I don't know.

1524
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:56,520
 Okay. So item two was requested by member Frey, transportation overview, new transportation standards, broader mobility plan, bike program, vehicle idling standards, sidewalks, infrastructure.

1525
01:51:56,520 --> 01:52:08,520
 Item four was something that Keely and I put on together, request and review of development codes, parking minimums, on-street parking, and then we covered the tree code in a separate presentation.

1526
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:16,520
 Those two items feel substantively very similar, and I feel like they're going to come up quite a bit as we work through the climate action plan.

1527
01:52:16,520 --> 01:52:34,520
 I just wonder if there's a way we could-- I'm not sure if it would be more beneficial for our committee's understanding to hear that sort of information possibly from development services prior to discussion about some of those adaptation and the climate action items, or perhaps something we can evaluate after.

1528
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:42,520
 I'm just wondering if those two items could be combined and then the scheduling of those. I'm not clear on when it would be most effective for us to hear that information.

1529
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,520
 Probably sooner than later, right, as we're working through this.

1530
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:56,520
 It would cover-- I would hope it would cover currently our operative norms in development services, particularly around a lot of these transportation issues.

1531
01:52:56,520 --> 01:53:07,520
 I'm just curious if we might be able to provide more direction to staff whenever we hear more from our climate action plan and the recommendations out of that.

1532
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:08,520
 So two and four?

1533
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:09,520
 Correct.

1534
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:10,520
 Okay.

1535
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:15,520
 Okay.

1536
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:16,520
 Yeah.

1537
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:17,520
 Yeah.

1538
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:18,520
 It's still on.

1539
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:20,520
 Anybody else?

1540
01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:28,520
 Just wanted to second that. I was going to say, I didn't know if I missed it, but a transportation-focused discussion, given that that's the gorilla in the room for it.

1541
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:29,520
 Okay.

1542
01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:30,520
 Yeah.

1543
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:33,520
 Would our new member like to add anything to the matrix, or would you look over?

1544
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:35,520
 I'd add my support to the items.

1545
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:36,520
 Okay.

1546
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:39,520
 All right. So that-- do you have that, Catherine?

1547
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:40,520
 I do.

1548
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:41,520
 All right.

1549
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:53,520
 So I think we kind of covered concluding items a little bit, but does anybody have anything extra they want to add that's not on the matrix that they would like to see?

1550
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:56,520
 Or any other thing?

1551
01:53:56,520 --> 01:54:05,520
 All right. I think we are good. We will conclude the meeting at 2.54. Thank you, everybody.