WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.580 Good morning, let's call to order the Public Utilities Board meeting of December 10, 2018. 00:00:11.580 --> 00:00:16.540 First item, I'd like to move the closed meeting to the end of the agenda that will give the 00:00:16.540 --> 00:00:21.420 staff ability to get out of here and not hold up their time. 00:00:21.420 --> 00:00:25.620 So the first item of business will be the work session to receive a report and hold 00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:34.860 a discussion regarding the phase two of the 2018 Denton Municipal Energy Risk Management Policy, that's a mouthful. 00:00:34.860 --> 00:00:53.860 >> Thank you, Chair Parker, Public Utility Board, happy holidays. 00:00:53.860 --> 00:00:57.140 >> Hey, it's that time of year again. 00:00:57.140 --> 00:01:02.780 So here today to talk about the energy risk management policy, our phase two update. 00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:09.860 You may recall we were here last spring and really made a large step forward in our risk management policy. 00:01:09.860 --> 00:01:14.420 We went from a document that was composed back in 2014, learned a lot of lessons, 00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:19.780 there'd been a lot of changes in our staffing, power supply portfolio. 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:23.780 And we updated it to 2018 conditions, but we didn't touch on everything. 00:01:23.780 --> 00:01:29.820 We left some work for a little bit later, and we're here today with a phase two update, 00:01:29.820 --> 00:01:34.200 which will, you may recall Deloitte had a lot of recommendations. 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:41.220 And we're going to talk about the additional inclusions we made in the risk management policy for Deloitte. 00:01:41.220 --> 00:01:46.980 We also worked hand in hand with enterprise risk consultants, you may remember them. 00:01:46.980 --> 00:01:51.620 They had been here before the PUB several times, and they were very helpful to us. 00:01:51.620 --> 00:02:00.140 And we also had some gray boxes that were in that phase one update that we said, hey, we're going to be doing this in phase two, so we're back to report on that. 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:07.140 Just like last time, I'm going to introduce our risk management expert, Phil DiPastina. 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:09.660 Phil put this presentation together. 00:02:09.660 --> 00:02:15.100 You may recall he's got like 25 years of experience in risk management for electric utilities, 00:02:17.260 --> 00:02:23.740 first saw the risk management for what at the time was the largest electric utility in the United States, and worked for Aircott. 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.940 He's been in the front office, the back office, the middle office, and today he's our middle office. 00:02:27.940 --> 00:02:33.820 So he's sort of the traffic cop, making sure that we do the right things with respect to risk management. 00:02:33.820 --> 00:02:43.020 So, Phil, if you want to come up, I see your tie is better looking than mine, so I think I'll turn this over to you. 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:46.220 >> Thank you, George. 00:02:46.220 --> 00:02:47.700 >> Okay. 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:53.100 >> Hello, my name's Philip DiPastina, and as George said, 00:02:53.100 --> 00:03:03.020 I'm going to go over the main changes that we're proposing to make in this risk policy. 00:03:03.020 --> 00:03:11.700 George has mentioned at a high level where these things come from. 00:03:11.700 --> 00:03:13.100 I'm going to go into more detail. 00:03:14.140 --> 00:03:19.980 So one of the things we're trying to do in this version 00:03:19.980 --> 00:03:24.420 is to be more quantitative in our 00:03:24.420 --> 00:03:30.100 measurement of how well the EMO is doing. 00:03:30.100 --> 00:03:38.380 And so we're proposing a few metrics to reflect that. 00:03:38.380 --> 00:03:45.460 One is the reduction of risk, which is the exposure to market price volatility. 00:03:45.460 --> 00:03:54.940 The second is a comparison of actual costs that we incur to a market index, 00:03:54.940 --> 00:04:00.700 which we're proposing to use the ERCOT day ahead price as our 00:04:00.700 --> 00:04:08.300 target to try to meet or beat, plus a small hedging premium. 00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:14.140 And the comparison of DME's average rates to those of other Texas municipalities. 00:04:14.140 --> 00:04:24.460 Another change we're proposing is to kind of beef up the responsibilities of the risk 00:04:24.460 --> 00:04:29.060 management committee, which is going to provide governance and oversight for this program. 00:04:29.060 --> 00:04:37.300 In addition to that, and we can go into more details if you have questions, 00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:44.620 but also go into more of the responsibilities of the 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:49.860 different groups that are involved with this program that we call the front, middle, and back offices. 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:57.780 The front offices are the people that are actually doing the day to day decisions to buy and sell and to interact with ERCOT. 00:04:57.780 --> 00:05:05.900 My role is the middle office, which is kind of the oversight of the program. 00:05:05.900 --> 00:05:11.540 And to ensure that everything is in compliance with the current policy. 00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:15.420 And then we have a back office function, which coordinates the accounting and 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:18.820 settlements and coordinates with the city finance department. 00:05:18.820 --> 00:05:26.900 In addition to that, we're proposing some more risk controls 00:05:26.900 --> 00:05:31.580 over the models that the EMO uses to make their day to day business decisions. 00:05:34.060 --> 00:05:40.420 And then we're adding a description of what are all these risks that we're trying to manage. 00:05:40.420 --> 00:05:50.460 Most of the time we just talk about price risk, which is how vulnerable we are to fluctuations in the market prices. 00:05:50.460 --> 00:06:00.740 But we also have volume risk, which is associated with the variability of renewable energy producers. 00:06:00.740 --> 00:06:06.780 Commodity risk, which is a possibility that the people we're buying and 00:06:06.780 --> 00:06:12.900 selling power with won't actually deliver or pay for the power. 00:06:12.900 --> 00:06:18.900 Credit risk, model risk, and regulatory risk. 00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:29.260 As I said earlier, we're trying to be a little more quantitative in how we measure all this stuff. 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:38.540 And so we're proposing a kind of a target of $15 million for 00:06:38.540 --> 00:06:41.860 how much we're willing to pay to try to manage risk. 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:48.260 And we're going to use some metrics that are called at risk metrics. 00:06:48.260 --> 00:06:52.780 But they are a little complicated, but 00:06:52.780 --> 00:06:59.140 they generally try to take historical information on prices. 00:06:59.140 --> 00:07:05.700 And price correlations and volatility, and consolidated into a single number. 00:07:05.700 --> 00:07:12.820 And we're going to use that to compare to this $15 million threshold. 00:07:12.820 --> 00:07:16.380 And then if market conditions 00:07:16.380 --> 00:07:28.660 become more volatile, and it looks like we're going to have to spend more than about $15 million over a rolling 12 month period. 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:36.220 And we'd go to the risk committee and explain the situation to them and get their input. 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:43.940 And if we went over 125% of that target, we'd actually come back to you and 00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:48.620 the city council and explain what's going on with the market. 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:53.780 And our plans to try to either manage that and 00:07:53.780 --> 00:07:58.740 reduce the risk, or accept it and move forward. 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:05.060 Additionally, there's a concept called open position. 00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:11.500 Which is kind of the vulnerability we are to the market prices. 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:16.540 The difference between, in ERCOT, the rules are set up so 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:21.260 that you essentially take all the generation you have and sell it to ERCOT. 00:08:21.260 --> 00:08:26.380 And then turn around and buy all the energy you need to serve your load from ERCOT. 00:08:26.380 --> 00:08:31.860 And so those two generation load costs kind of net out. 00:08:31.860 --> 00:08:34.900 And the difference is what you're exposed to on the market. 00:08:34.900 --> 00:08:41.300 And sometimes we have more resources than we have load in some hours. 00:08:41.300 --> 00:08:45.820 And in some hours we have less resources than we have load. 00:08:45.820 --> 00:08:50.260 And so that's called our open position. 00:08:50.260 --> 00:08:52.140 And we're going to try to manage that. 00:08:52.140 --> 00:09:00.020 And as we get closer and closer to our delivery period, the idea would be that we'd be more in balance. 00:09:00.020 --> 00:09:06.460 With our loads and our resources, so that we'd be less vulnerable to market changes and swings. 00:09:06.460 --> 00:09:13.580 Another section we're adding to this version of the policy or 00:09:13.580 --> 00:09:19.180 we're proposing to add is congestion management strategy. 00:09:19.180 --> 00:09:25.540 And what that is, is the way ERCOT works is we get paid for 00:09:25.540 --> 00:09:32.220 the power that we generate at the specific points of our generation, and those are called nodes. 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:39.820 But we pay for energy at kind of an average North Texas 00:09:39.820 --> 00:09:45.260 kind of number that's called the North Load Zone. 00:09:45.260 --> 00:09:48.340 And those numbers aren't always exactly the same. 00:09:48.340 --> 00:09:50.940 Usually they are, but sometimes they're not. 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:58.060 When the wires get kind of full, then the prices disconnect. 00:09:58.060 --> 00:10:00.340 And so that's called congestion. 00:10:00.340 --> 00:10:05.700 And ERCOT has a program to offer financial 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:13.180 hedging instruments called CRRs or congestion revenue requirements. 00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:16.260 And point to point obligations. 00:10:16.260 --> 00:10:22.020 And these financial instruments are meant to help manage that the risk, 00:10:22.020 --> 00:10:29.260 the prices where the power is produced and where we buy the power are a little different. 00:10:29.260 --> 00:10:38.500 And so we're adding a section to the risk policy that explains what our strategy is to manage that and how it works. 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:47.900 Another new element to the risk policy is that we're going to ask our 00:10:47.900 --> 00:10:54.700 energy training group to develop plans for the next three years. 00:10:54.700 --> 00:11:00.060 And review those with the risk committee at the beginning of each year. 00:11:00.060 --> 00:11:05.260 And then as we go throughout the year when we meet, which is about quarterly, 00:11:06.660 --> 00:11:13.020 we'll ask them to return and report on their progress at either meeting the hedging targets that they've set. 00:11:13.020 --> 00:11:18.700 Or explaining where they are in meeting those targets. 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:23.060 And if things need to be changed, then we'll discuss that too. 00:11:23.060 --> 00:11:31.260 And there's some miscellaneous changes you'll see in this policy. 00:11:31.260 --> 00:11:35.420 Organizational charts have been updated and job titles revised. 00:11:37.220 --> 00:11:45.220 A little additional detail has been added to the types of transaction types that are approved for 00:11:45.220 --> 00:11:50.580 use by the EMO, as well as a checklist for 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:55.540 adding new products to make sure that the benefits, 00:11:55.540 --> 00:12:02.140 the risks, and all the policy issues have been addressed before we actually do something new. 00:12:05.180 --> 00:12:10.860 Finally, there's a few things that were mentioned in our consultant 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:14.260 reports that really don't fit into the policy itself. 00:12:14.260 --> 00:12:21.700 Once this second draft is updated, we'll need to update our 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:27.300 operating procedures to be consistent with that. 00:12:27.300 --> 00:12:32.740 And operating procedures are just more detailed than what you see in the risk policy itself. 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:39.300 The risk committee has asked us to develop an executive dashboard so 00:12:39.300 --> 00:12:44.460 that when they see what's going on, it's in a standard form and 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:49.740 it's consolidated so they can quickly understand how things are going. 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:56.060 And in a similar vein, 00:12:56.060 --> 00:13:01.740 we're going to be developing some consistent, 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:09.300 thankfully simple templates to report to you guys and to the council on the EMO activities. 00:13:09.300 --> 00:13:16.940 Our consultants have recommended that we provide periodic ongoing 00:13:16.940 --> 00:13:26.300 training to the BUB and the city council on market fundamentals and commodity training. 00:13:26.300 --> 00:13:38.140 And we've talked about that and we'll probably be bringing in some outside consultants to do that once or twice a year as needed. 00:13:38.140 --> 00:13:45.140 And then we've also received recommendations that we need to do a little more cross training and 00:13:45.140 --> 00:13:51.540 knowledge sharing within the EMO and the different groups that make this program work together. 00:13:51.540 --> 00:13:57.060 So that we can better cover each other when there's somebody out or 00:13:57.060 --> 00:14:05.300 we all understand how we're trying to do the best job we can in each of our areas. 00:14:05.300 --> 00:14:14.940 In the package that you received today in addition to the risk policy, 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:21.900 the draft that we're proposing, there's 00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:29.660 implementation tasks status report that has all the recommendations 00:14:29.660 --> 00:14:34.940 that the Deloitte made back in December 2017 for 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:44.540 improving the risk program as well as a few items that were mentioned in the AIS report back then. 00:14:44.540 --> 00:14:48.580 And these gray box items, 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:55.860 which were flagged in the current risk policy as items that were still under development. 00:14:55.860 --> 00:15:03.300 So that status report is there for you to see how we're doing. 00:15:03.300 --> 00:15:08.300 And as George mentioned, we've accomplished or 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:17.020 we're proposing to accomplish almost all of the recommendations that have been mentioned in this update. 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:26.100 We've also included a red line version so you can see what's being proposed to change from the current version. 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:34.380 And a memo from enterprise risk consultants that comments on how the program's doing. 00:15:35.540 --> 00:15:39.660 So I think, George, do you want to finish off here? 00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:49.620 >> I think to summarize, George Morrow, general manager of DME. 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:53.700 The goal that we're reaching for is this increased transparency and 00:15:53.700 --> 00:15:57.900 oversight of our risk management activities or energy procurement work. 00:15:57.900 --> 00:16:05.300 Fixing whatever needed to be enhanced from, that was pointed out to us in the past by ERC and Deloitte. 00:16:06.180 --> 00:16:09.020 We very much appreciate their input and comments. 00:16:09.020 --> 00:16:12.100 But also to recognize that this is a living document. 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:16.300 We're going to be back at least annually to the PUBN city council. 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:19.020 We want to take it continually up another notch. 00:16:19.020 --> 00:16:24.220 We want to add additional clarity, quantification, as Philip mentioned. 00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:33.740 And one of the things we're looking forward to is procurement of what's called an energy trading risk management system, ETRM. 00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:36.940 That was one of the core recommendations out of Deloitte. 00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:43.140 In fact, so we're getting ready to put out an RFP to procure that model. 00:16:43.140 --> 00:16:44.900 The model will be very valuable to us. 00:16:44.900 --> 00:16:51.780 It'll allow us to do additional analyses in a convenient, rigorous fashion about risk. 00:16:51.780 --> 00:16:56.700 And allows us to share data across that back office, middle office, and front office. 00:16:56.700 --> 00:17:01.380 So everybody working from the same deck of cards, so to speak. 00:17:01.380 --> 00:17:05.340 Versus manual handoffs or everybody inputting their data. 00:17:05.340 --> 00:17:09.220 It's just a smart technological improvement. 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:15.900 So we'll be back to you at some point over the coming months with our recommendation for an ATM procurement. 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:21.580 And lastly, so today's a work session. 00:17:21.580 --> 00:17:27.620 Just wanted to introduce the subject, get any initial comments you might have. 00:17:27.620 --> 00:17:33.300 Also, we'll be back in the next month or so based on what we hear from the city council and 00:17:33.300 --> 00:17:38.420 from you with an approval item or to approve this actual document. 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:39.860 So that will be the next step. 00:17:39.860 --> 00:17:42.300 There's another bite at the apple, so to speak. 00:17:42.300 --> 00:17:45.740 So comments and questions, if any. 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:46.980 >> Questions, Brendan. 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:51.460 >> I have a question regarding the customer risk tolerance component. 00:17:53.460 --> 00:18:00.140 It says that we'll initially assume a CRT of one cent per kilowatt of load. 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:04.020 And estimates around $15 million. 00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:12.260 Did we come about that dollar amount based on historical assumption of risk or? 00:18:12.260 --> 00:18:19.180 >> Yeah, so we did some surveying outside of our operation. 00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:26.860 Philip recalls from his history with a number of different agencies, also whatever's available out there. 00:18:26.860 --> 00:18:33.780 And 10% seemed to be a target that had been accepted and promoted by a lot of different utilities. 00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:39.060 So for us, we're annual revenue per year, just a round number, about $150 million. 00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:43.580 You mentioned the cents per kilowatt hour for residential, average about 10 cents. 00:18:43.580 --> 00:18:45.740 So this is about a penny of the 10 cents. 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:50.700 So it sort of gives us a range to work between before we get really, really excited. 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:55.820 Now we still might get excited if we're a little bit out of bounds and still within that amount. 00:18:55.820 --> 00:19:01.620 But that's kind of the trigger where we want to make sure we have 00:19:01.620 --> 00:19:05.740 done our best to control the risk that got us to that point. 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:07.780 Many times, things are out of our control. 00:19:07.780 --> 00:19:09.980 It's not something bad that we did. 00:19:09.980 --> 00:19:11.780 That's one thing I like to talk about on the risk side. 00:19:11.780 --> 00:19:14.700 It's not that, hey, we did anything or the EMO did anything. 00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:17.060 It's that the world changed. 00:19:17.060 --> 00:19:18.580 The market changed. 00:19:18.580 --> 00:19:22.580 Like we talked last summer, remember that we had a lot of power plants retiring and 00:19:22.580 --> 00:19:24.380 we're seeing the same thing this winter. 00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:28.660 So the summertime, the prices, whoa, they open up quite a ways. 00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:35.100 And that increases the risk for all the agencies, not just for DME. 00:19:35.100 --> 00:19:40.420 But we want to make sure that we have a plan and we do something about that when it does happen. 00:19:40.420 --> 00:19:44.260 And if it gets too far out of bounds, and we'll be coming back to you just to say, 00:19:44.260 --> 00:19:48.580 here's what happened, here's what's going on this summer, or this month, or this year. 00:19:48.580 --> 00:19:51.260 And here's the actions we're proposing to take or have taken. 00:19:51.260 --> 00:19:54.660 >> Just as a follow up to that. 00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:03.180 So do you expect that we'll spend $15 million mitigating risk in a year? 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:09.780 Or that's just a budget cap that we may need more and 00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:13.500 we'll come to PUB and alert the risk committee? 00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:17.500 I mean, do you expect that we're going to spend $15 million every year mitigating risk? 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.140 >> No, we don't expect to spend that money. 00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:26.340 And it's just a, it just gives you, let's take the football field analogy. 00:20:26.340 --> 00:20:29.340 If we watch some football games this weekend, we have the sidelines. 00:20:29.340 --> 00:20:31.940 So those are our goal posts, our sidelines, our guidelines. 00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.180 We want to stay within the field, plus or minus. 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:42.460 But, and it's not actually, yeah, so we're not expecting that. 00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:43.580 We have no prediction for that. 00:20:43.580 --> 00:20:45.740 Our prediction is our budget that we have right now. 00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:47.460 So we've set rates. 00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:49.060 We want to keep within those rates. 00:20:49.060 --> 00:20:57.420 But recognizing that power supply is a moving target sometime, and we just wanted to. 00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:00.500 So this is our first attempt, and I'm not sure that we wouldn't come back and 00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:05.260 refine that some more as we continue our dialogue with the PUB and the city council. 00:21:05.260 --> 00:21:08.780 >> So then it's not going to be a budget item. 00:21:08.780 --> 00:21:12.940 You're not going to add this to your budget somewhere or pull it from somewhere else? 00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:13.580 >> Totally correct. 00:21:13.580 --> 00:21:15.420 At this point, there's no intention to do that. 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.580 We're not expecting to spend that $15 million. 00:21:17.580 --> 00:21:18.820 >> Okay. 00:21:18.820 --> 00:21:23.580 >> For us, it's just a red flag that forces us to do some things. 00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:28.420 >> Is it the ceiling above, say where we budget 80 million for power supply and 00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:33.740 it's the 15 above that, is that the ceiling, that's the target? 00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:34.380 >> Yes. 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:35.700 >> Okay. >> So that would be it. 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:38.380 >> And then the 125 comes after that, which. 00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:39.900 >> 25 comes after that. 00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:42.220 >> The whole market is falling apart at that point. 00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:43.300 It's not just us. 00:21:43.300 --> 00:21:44.660 >> It's not just us. 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.460 It's things we couldn't predict or manage. 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:49.500 It's not under our control, a lot of what happens out there in the market. 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:53.580 But as I mentioned to the risk management committee, we talked to them recently about 00:21:53.580 --> 00:22:00.340 the same document, is we don't wait for 15 million impact to happen before we, 00:22:00.340 --> 00:22:02.420 okay, we better do something. 00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:04.340 No, we're on it every day. 00:22:04.340 --> 00:22:07.540 >> Right. >> We're watching this 24 hours a day, 00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:10.580 basically, we have people that watch everything that's going on. 00:22:10.580 --> 00:22:13.860 And we'll have dealt with it long before we hit that target. 00:22:13.860 --> 00:22:16.660 >> I have a question. 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:23.100 So is the 15 million the hedge or 00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:29.420 are there market hedges that you're talking about when you speak of hedging against risk? 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:31.780 >> I think the chair hit it on the head. 00:22:31.780 --> 00:22:35.300 So what we're talking about, that 15 million, 00:22:35.300 --> 00:22:41.580 that would be additional cost of power supply, because everything sort of bundles and rolls together into power supply. 00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:45.660 It's the cost of all of our resources that we have under contract. 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:47.700 It's our debt and energy center. 00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:54.500 It's special buys that we may, hedge buys that we may have made on top of that to kind of close the open positions that Philip talked about. 00:22:54.500 --> 00:22:59.540 So that all kind of gets rolled together into the, and so it's that. 00:22:59.540 --> 00:23:04.180 It's that pool of cost getting increasing by $15 million. 00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:09.700 >> From our expectation, from the budget that you've approved and you've seen. 00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:23.820 >> So, if I understand that right, 15 million is if all hedges don't work and the market goes totally crazy. 00:23:23.820 --> 00:23:26.300 >> I think that's exactly right. 00:23:26.300 --> 00:23:27.860 So based on everything that we- 00:23:27.860 --> 00:23:32.780 >> It's just an insurance policy, again, so we don't get caught blindsided. 00:23:34.220 --> 00:23:37.220 >> Right, I think it's a hard concept to get your arms around. 00:23:37.220 --> 00:23:39.780 We had a lot of discussion also with the risk management committee. 00:23:39.780 --> 00:23:42.660 We'll probably have a lot of discussion at the city council level. 00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:45.980 It's just the, hey, you're out of bounds. 00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:51.580 You've hit the boundary of the playing field, and come tell us what you're doing. 00:23:51.580 --> 00:23:55.900 And what I mentioned to the risk management committee, we'll be before them well. 00:23:55.900 --> 00:23:59.900 Before that, nothing's going to happen in a day, probably. 00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:06.620 We'll see things evolve and change, just like we're starting to see things evolve and change for the expectations of next summer. 00:24:06.620 --> 00:24:13.060 And it just forces all of us to think about how we're managing our risk and do we need to do some other things. 00:24:13.060 --> 00:24:15.820 I don't know if that explains it. 00:24:15.820 --> 00:24:21.380 >> And it may not be that, I mean, we're probably going to have to spend that because the market conditions say that. 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:25.980 It's just that we're going to be that much more transparent about what is happening. 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:27.340 Is that part of this? 00:24:27.340 --> 00:24:31.780 I think that's a wonderful statement about what that means and what we would do. 00:24:31.780 --> 00:24:36.700 Yes, so I'll leave it right there. 00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:39.100 >> I do have one more question. 00:24:39.100 --> 00:24:40.300 Go ahead, Brendan. 00:24:40.300 --> 00:24:43.900 >> So you brought up the Denton Energy Center. 00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:44.740 >> Yes, I did. 00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:52.900 >> So if, let's just say for instance, we know the Denton Energy Center is going to lose money. 00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:56.780 And we're going to need more money to keep it operational. 00:24:56.780 --> 00:25:01.620 Does that mean we'll pull money from this fund to keep it operational? 00:25:01.620 --> 00:25:09.460 Or to pay for maintenance or something if indeed the maintenance is not being covered by the money that it's making? 00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:13.980 >> So the fixed cost of power plants, for instance, and the fixed cost for 00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:20.340 our resources that we've contracted for the different renewables, those are in the budget. 00:25:20.340 --> 00:25:29.580 And those will be in our budget, so that each year we have enough money to take care of all of our financial requirements with respect to all of our resources. 00:25:29.580 --> 00:25:34.220 So this is more of the operating side of the equation. 00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:38.020 This is the hour to hour, day to day, month to month. 00:25:38.020 --> 00:25:43.300 So for the Denton Energy Center, it's the variable cost of operating that power plant, 00:25:43.300 --> 00:25:48.820 which in a lot of the market conditions that we're seeing, if you're just looking at the energy part, 00:25:50.020 --> 00:25:54.380 it is a very, very positive hedge in insurance policy. 00:25:54.380 --> 00:26:00.020 Fixed parts already kind of dealt with through the budget, so this is just the operating piece of it. 00:26:00.020 --> 00:26:04.660 >> Sure, I understand that the fixed parts are in it, but the Denton Energy Center takes 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:10.580 these same risks that we're talking about by producing energy and selling it on the market, correct? 00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:17.980 >> Correct, but what's nice about the Denton Energy Center is we tell the market what the price is of the Denton Energy Center. 00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:20.700 We will not run if we are not going to make money. 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:30.260 So every time we start it up, we know that the market conditions are such that we're going to make a little bit or a lot, depending on what the conditions are. 00:26:30.260 --> 00:26:34.740 So that's on the operating side, because we know what our efficiency is. 00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:42.060 We know what our fuel cost is, and we can say, okay, we've got to get that amount when we sell this, and otherwise it doesn't operate. 00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:46.700 >> Are you certain about that? 00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:52.900 >> I mean, because what you just said is that we'll make money every time we turn that on, and I don't think that's true. 00:26:52.900 --> 00:26:59.460 >> On an operational standpoint, I'm ignoring, I started the conversation with you that the fixed costs are over someplace else. 00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.380 >> And I understand that, I understand that. 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:04.580 >> Well, why would we run the deck if it's not going to- 00:27:04.580 --> 00:27:06.500 >> I thought Urquhart told us when to turn it on. 00:27:06.500 --> 00:27:11.140 >> But Urquhart will only tell us to run it when it's positive from an economic standpoint for us. 00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:12.900 >> So it's taking no risk. 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.780 >> Right, right, we set a price, and we bid the deck in. 00:27:16.780 --> 00:27:20.300 If it meets or exceeds that price, we run the deck. 00:27:20.300 --> 00:27:24.860 If the price is lower, we're not competitive, and the deck doesn't run. 00:27:24.860 --> 00:27:29.220 So the worst case scenario, you would only break even. 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:30.340 That's the worst case scenario. 00:27:30.340 --> 00:27:35.740 >> So we'll tell Urquhart, as Todd said, here's the price for the deck. 00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:42.780 Here's what it cost us to run for the next hour, and they will not trigger that to run. 00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:47.900 And we will not run it even on our own if it's not going to make some money for that period. 00:27:47.900 --> 00:27:49.420 That doesn't, that's just- 00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:50.620 >> Or at least break even. 00:27:50.620 --> 00:27:51.460 >> Or at least break even. 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:55.660 >> Yeah, we're hoping to do slightly more, but yeah, at least break even. 00:27:55.660 --> 00:27:56.540 >> Okay. 00:27:56.540 --> 00:27:57.420 >> Good questions. 00:27:57.420 --> 00:28:02.140 >> And I'm glad you said that, because yeah, that was my understanding too, 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:07.660 was that we might lose money if ERCOT told us that we had to run the plant. 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:11.300 So I think that's something that really needs to be repeated over and over again. 00:28:11.300 --> 00:28:14.300 We're not going to lose money on the deck. 00:28:14.300 --> 00:28:18.020 >> I think they just mean on the production and selling component. 00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:20.240 >> Right. >> I don't think they mean on the rest of it. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.060 >> We don't. 00:28:21.060 --> 00:28:22.780 >> Because it can still lose plenty of money. 00:28:22.780 --> 00:28:30.500 >> You're right, and if things got so dire that they forced us to run the plant, there's no question that would be a very positive thing for the deck. 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:35.020 And they have, ERCOT does have the ability to wave and 00:28:35.020 --> 00:28:41.020 mitigate the TCEQ permit requirements if you ever got in that kind of emergency situation. 00:28:41.020 --> 00:28:47.260 But if that ever happened, my guess is the market would be so high that you'd make a lot of money in that perspective. 00:28:47.260 --> 00:28:52.380 But the deck represents no financial risk when it runs. 00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:57.500 If our accounting is proper and we've bid in the proper rate, which we have. 00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:02.860 And so at worst case scenario, we just break even. 00:29:02.860 --> 00:29:08.860 But I think the other point that's out there, and there's a lot of misconception, is could they force us to exceed our permit? 00:29:08.860 --> 00:29:12.220 My question is, if we got into a dire circumstance, they could. 00:29:12.220 --> 00:29:14.020 But at that point, the market's going to be very high. 00:29:14.020 --> 00:29:21.620 >> Yeah, so the objective when we operate is to make some money. 00:29:21.620 --> 00:29:26.020 >> Sure. >> On a production side that you mentioned, and that offsets the fixed cost. 00:29:26.020 --> 00:29:28.260 So that's a contribution to fixed. 00:29:28.260 --> 00:29:34.500 And that's our objective, to make as much additional revenue 00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:39.220 of our operating cost that it can offset as much as possible of the fixed expenses. 00:29:39.220 --> 00:29:45.300 >> I have one more question on a previous slide. 00:29:45.300 --> 00:29:47.460 >> Okay. >> Let me get to it. 00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:54.500 Talking about the training of the council and the PUB, is that going to be like a joint working session? 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:59.860 >> It could be, I haven't thought about that, but that might actually be a good way to do it. 00:29:59.860 --> 00:30:05.380 We could have a joint session, I'm thinking bringing in a third party might be the best way. 00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:11.500 And then we would have just training that kind of builds on itself 00:30:11.500 --> 00:30:16.340 to talk about a lot of these concepts that we're discussing today about how the market works, 00:30:16.340 --> 00:30:23.380 how trading works, how hedging works, and hedging, energy's a commodity. 00:30:23.380 --> 00:30:26.740 So it's like the commodity market, so yeah, does that sound okay? 00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:28.420 >> Yep, yeah, I'm just curious. 00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:31.820 >> Okay, so we'll try to get that, we get this approved. 00:30:31.820 --> 00:30:35.940 We'll try to get that kicked off early this next calendar year. 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:39.980 >> Other questions? 00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:42.740 >> Thank you. >> Thank you. 00:30:42.740 --> 00:30:51.060 Next item, receive a report, hold a discussion, and 00:30:51.060 --> 00:30:57.260 provide staff direction regarding the solid waste department's building materials recovery and rubble process. 00:30:58.420 --> 00:31:09.740 >> Good morning board members, my name is Ethan Cox, I'm the director of solid waste. 00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:11.340 Pleasure to be with you this morning. 00:31:11.340 --> 00:31:15.660 So to refresh everyone's memory, I think we do have some new board members here today. 00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:20.580 Last summer, the solid waste department had a solid waste consulting group named Blue Ridge Services come in and 00:31:20.580 --> 00:31:25.180 kind of provide a 30,000 foot overview of what's working, what isn't. 00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:31.140 Our department has a number of different operations and programs that we've put forth for the community. 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.660 And they kind of gave us some feedback on some of that. 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:38.020 In some cases, their recommendations were you need to step away from this operation. 00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:41.020 But in almost all cases, there were some opportunities for improvement. 00:31:41.020 --> 00:31:45.220 And so whenever we delivered this to the PUB and the council in the summer, 00:31:45.220 --> 00:31:50.540 the council's recommendation was we appreciate the 30,000 foot view of this from the consultant. 00:31:50.540 --> 00:31:54.260 We'd like staff to take a bit of a deeper dive and do some more analysis. 00:31:54.260 --> 00:32:00.660 So this is the first in a series of these types of discussions that we're going to be having with the board and the council over the next few months. 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.020 As such, I wanted to kind of lay out what we're trying to do with these. 00:32:04.020 --> 00:32:08.500 So on this slide, we have a definition for what a business case analysis is. 00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:10.660 Typically, that's cost benefit analysis. 00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:14.500 It does have some risk associated with that, that you're going to be looking at. 00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.740 For a program, proposed investment plan of action. 00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:22.660 For what we're going to be doing, a lot of this is just looking at programs that are currently on the ground and 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:28.340 not only looking at what the program purpose and objective is, but how are we succeeding in meeting those objectives. 00:32:28.340 --> 00:32:32.820 There will be a financial analysis associated with these, as well as the risk assessment. 00:32:32.820 --> 00:32:39.740 And at the conclusion, we'll provide both the board and the council with our conclusions and recommendations. 00:32:39.740 --> 00:32:43.060 Similarly, we also want to provide some definitions. 00:32:43.060 --> 00:32:45.140 Some of these operations are pretty well known. 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:48.460 Others, there may be some misperceptions about that. 00:32:48.460 --> 00:32:53.820 So for today's discussion, some of the definitions that we think are important is when we talk about rubble, 00:32:53.820 --> 00:32:59.260 really what we're talking about is waste fragments of stone, brick, concrete, or asphalt. 00:32:59.260 --> 00:33:05.700 Our operation has accepted that from a lot of contractors and larger commercial haulers for a number of years. 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:13.860 Similarly, building materials can include brick, concrete, and other materials as well, like glass, drywall, metals, insulation, lumber. 00:33:13.860 --> 00:33:20.140 I have metals highlighted here in a different font, because that's typically about the only material that you can actually recycle. 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:26.300 Now, you can process a lot of those other materials and reuse them, but you're not really recycling them into a new product. 00:33:26.300 --> 00:33:36.380 And so with that, we also have our diversion definition here, which we think is pretty important to understand what is actually being diverted away from the landfill. 00:33:36.380 --> 00:33:40.900 So we do not count stored and stockpiled materials diverted until it leaves our side. 00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:46.940 And so for our definitions and for the figures that you'll see, diversion means there's no chance of that going in the landfill. 00:33:46.940 --> 00:33:54.140 We've sold it and moved it off to be recycled or for some other use. 00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:57.060 Some of the purpose and objectives we'll talk about today. 00:33:57.060 --> 00:34:05.860 For years, the solid waste department's objective, a lot of cities look at zero waste and trying to achieve that, and typically zero waste means if you're diverting about 80%. 00:34:05.860 --> 00:34:09.820 Our goal for the last several years has been to divert 40%. 00:34:09.820 --> 00:34:20.180 We're not as close as we thought we were, simply because when you adjust that definition of diversion, not counting stored and stockpiled materials, a lot of that does kind of come away. 00:34:20.180 --> 00:34:26.380 So we're typically diverting about 15 to 20%, depending on where the market sits right now. 00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:37.420 The purpose of these operations for rubble processing, you know, this is one of those operations that we could typically be competing with some folks in private industry. 00:34:37.420 --> 00:34:45.140 And a lot of construction outfits, they do their own rubble processing and they reuse that material because they are efficient at it and they find a good use for it. 00:34:45.140 --> 00:34:54.100 So for us, getting into this type of business is to sort and process the rubble and in order to move it off the site, we have to sell it as an aggregate material. 00:34:54.100 --> 00:35:02.020 There is some operational benefit to us using that material on site, but again, that's reuse, that's not necessarily diversion. 00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:09.300 Building materials recovery, the purpose there is to sort, recover, and divert construction waste that would typically be land filled. 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:14.420 Essentially, when you're diverting that, you're either reusing or recycling, like I mentioned with metals. 00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:23.060 Some of the participants, our customers here, like I mentioned a second ago, it's typically private contractors, commercial operators, but it's also city departments as well. 00:35:23.060 --> 00:35:29.020 We have a streets operation, we do construction projects, and so they're definitely a customer of ours. 00:35:29.020 --> 00:35:36.220 Operations for us, this will make a little bit of sense when we get to the budget in a moment, the BMR and mining operation were co-mingled. 00:35:36.220 --> 00:35:41.140 And so last year, if you'll recall, we shuttered our landfill mining operation. 00:35:41.140 --> 00:35:46.740 So when you look at the budget figures, kind of keep that in mind, that it was both the BMR and the mining operation together. 00:35:46.740 --> 00:35:53.740 In terms of program performance, again, we evaluate that based on diversion. 00:35:53.740 --> 00:35:56.140 Diversion is accounted for by weight. 00:35:56.140 --> 00:36:02.780 So over the last five years, when the BMR and the rubble processing was up and running, 00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:09.020 we accepted about 300,000 tons of rubble, of that we only diverted about 9%. 00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:18.820 From a BMR perspective, much less tonnage, but again, the diversion was right around 10%, and again, that's mostly metals. 00:36:18.820 --> 00:36:22.580 So when we talk about diversion, for the rubble, that means it was sold and moved off site. 00:36:22.580 --> 00:36:27.580 We do have some significant stockpiles on our site that I'll talk about in just a moment. 00:36:27.580 --> 00:36:31.580 We've gone through a series of audits, both internally and externally. 00:36:31.580 --> 00:36:37.900 We've also surveyed some of our stockpiles out there, and currently we're unable to account for about 140,000 tons. 00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:46.180 And so the assumption is, is we either use that for road base, which again, is not diverted, or it was used in some other capital project that we can't account for. 00:36:46.180 --> 00:36:49.620 There's also the potential that it may have left the site without being weighed. 00:36:49.620 --> 00:36:57.740 But typically, we've kind of locked down those lanes to make sure that everything entering and exiting the site is being weighed moving forward. 00:36:57.740 --> 00:37:04.020 Some of the challenges that we're dealing with and why that diversion rate is so low, particularly for rubble, the source material is very contaminated. 00:37:04.020 --> 00:37:07.420 I'll show you some photos here in a moment of what that looks like. 00:37:07.420 --> 00:37:09.900 There's also a limited market for recovered materials. 00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:14.500 And so when you're looking at lumber, we would love to be able to process the lumber and sell that as wood chips. 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:20.860 But a lot of cases that has paint, has treated material, and so there's a very limited and very narrow market for that. 00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:25.460 So really what you're looking at, your best bet is to reuse that material if you can. 00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:30.900 As it relates to rubble, like I mentioned, we are competing with private industries, so other processing firms are much more efficient. 00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:36.980 That's their primary business, and they have very strict standards for contamination, which we'll talk about in just a moment. 00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:44.380 From a financial standpoint, over here on the left, this is historical income and loss. 00:37:44.380 --> 00:37:47.780 We provided this to the PBE and the council back in the summer. 00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:56.140 So from a strict cash flow standpoint, we're losing to the tune of about a million dollars a year on these operations, rubble and BMR combined. 00:37:56.140 --> 00:38:02.580 Recent budget activity, this is where we talked a little bit earlier about separating mining from the BMR. 00:38:02.580 --> 00:38:10.100 Probably the best figure to kind of get an idea of what it cost to actually run both of these operations as is, 00:38:10.100 --> 00:38:15.220 year fiscal year 16, 17 actual, about $3.4 million. 00:38:15.220 --> 00:38:19.300 For this budget year, we brought that down to about $2.7. 00:38:19.300 --> 00:38:24.740 Some of the changes that were made, we removed 10 FTEs that were previously assigned to the mining operation. 00:38:24.740 --> 00:38:32.100 We've also reduced temporary labor expense, pretty much site wide, but associated with this, about $268,000. 00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:39.540 One of the things I'll point out is both of these operations are heavily dependent on heavy equipment. 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:44.260 And so we have a lot of stranded debt service right now. 00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:48.900 As we start moving into the out years, if we step away from these operations, 00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:55.700 you're probably going to see about $1.2 million come off of that fiscal year 17 or fiscal year 18, 19 budget. 00:38:55.700 --> 00:39:01.340 And so that draw down does take place over the next five years if we decide to move away from these operations. 00:39:01.340 --> 00:39:08.980 Refresher of the council direction we received on June 26, so I mentioned Blue Ridge earlier. 00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:14.660 They provided recommendations on both of these for BMR that simply felt that the financial losses, 00:39:14.660 --> 00:39:22.260 the expensive equipment, and the inefficiencies associated with that operation didn't make sense in their expertise. 00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:27.220 Likewise, with the in house rubble processing, there is some use for that material on our site. 00:39:27.220 --> 00:39:31.180 Like I said, we do construct temporary roads and tipping pads. 00:39:31.180 --> 00:39:37.220 So essentially, their recommendation was to use your rates and/or policy to regulate the volumes you have coming in. 00:39:37.220 --> 00:39:40.780 Some of the stuff that the city departments have, that's perfect. 00:39:40.780 --> 00:39:45.740 We just got to make sure we have some really strict contamination guidelines there. 00:39:45.740 --> 00:39:51.060 Council direction at the time essentially was to bring these results and 00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:56.180 analysis back to the committee on the environment, the public utilities board, and the council. 00:39:56.180 --> 00:40:02.980 In the meantime, it was to temporarily convert the BMR into a public disposal area, as we call it the PDA. 00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:08.540 Also relocate recycling drop off, I'll show you a little bit more about that on the next slide. 00:40:08.540 --> 00:40:11.580 And then also to temporarily suspend rubble processing operations. 00:40:11.580 --> 00:40:16.820 So, last few months, what we've really tried to do is really pilot, 00:40:16.820 --> 00:40:21.140 is there a more efficient way that we can do this a safer way? 00:40:21.140 --> 00:40:27.540 Something that actually serves our citizens as opposed to commercial haulers and folks that may not necessarily live or work here. 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:34.100 First thing that we did was convert the BMR to the public disposal area. 00:40:34.100 --> 00:40:37.860 I'll talk about the numbers in a moment, I want to walk through the images first. 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:44.420 Lower left hand corner, that's kind of a good snapshot of how the BMR would typically work. 00:40:44.420 --> 00:40:48.340 You'd have commercial haulers drop a lot of their loads on the ground. 00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:53.660 We'd have loaders, skid steers, heavy equipment that would kind of move that into position for 00:40:53.660 --> 00:40:57.700 either an excavator or some type of material handler to put that on a conveyor. 00:40:57.700 --> 00:41:04.620 And then you'd have a team of personnel up here kind of sorting by hand some fine materials. 00:41:04.620 --> 00:41:08.700 A couple of challenges with that, it's very dust intensive. 00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:11.820 Dust is a consideration for us out at the landfill. 00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:15.340 It's also a little bit of a risk in terms of safety. 00:41:15.340 --> 00:41:19.460 You got a lot of sharps, a lot of things in there that you have to protect those folks that are on those lines. 00:41:19.460 --> 00:41:24.740 So all in all, kind of a really inefficient operation. 00:41:24.740 --> 00:41:27.980 What we've done is we've converted that to the public disposal, as you can see here. 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:34.140 We're using less than half the amount of equipment, less than half the amount of staff. 00:41:34.140 --> 00:41:38.780 What we feel like is we have a much safer operation, so this little gentleman right here. 00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:42.100 He's helping direct our residents and businesses. 00:41:42.100 --> 00:41:44.740 These are not always big commercial haulers. 00:41:44.740 --> 00:41:47.860 We're really focused on someone cleaned out their garage. 00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:52.020 Let's not have them go to the landfill and jockey for position with a big haul truck. 00:41:52.020 --> 00:41:56.300 Let's get them into the public disposal area, have them a nice clean experience. 00:41:56.300 --> 00:42:01.900 So that's really what he's doing here is making sure that the right folks are using this, that everyone's backing up in their lanes. 00:42:01.900 --> 00:42:04.460 And then this is kind of the snapshot on the backside. 00:42:04.460 --> 00:42:11.020 Again, we have a gentleman back here that's making sure that everyone's clear of the heavy equipment as he's pushing that material out. 00:42:11.020 --> 00:42:17.620 Also, what we're asking residents to do is if they have metals and things that are easily diverted, so go ahead and set that off. 00:42:17.620 --> 00:42:24.220 We have bins that you can't necessarily see here in this picture, but there's a separate area for appliances, electronics, a lot of that. 00:42:24.220 --> 00:42:28.980 So there's self-separation going on, and then also our staff is here. 00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:34.580 So this gentleman, probably go grab some of the cardboard and things like that to try to get that out of there if we can. 00:42:34.580 --> 00:42:42.580 All in all, we've cut down about half of the cost, and that's not including the debt service that will roll off. 00:42:42.580 --> 00:42:46.500 But we're still diverting about 85% of the material that we were previously. 00:42:47.700 --> 00:42:57.380 The commodity revenue is down, but that's just kind of part and parcel of where the market is right now with recycling in general, but metals were also impacted a little bit. 00:42:57.380 --> 00:43:04.180 We feel like we've got a much cleaner, safer, more beneficial operation through the PDA. 00:43:04.180 --> 00:43:07.540 It's working really well, and our staff's done a really nice job implementing it. 00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:14.860 One of the other things that was not necessarily tied directly to this, but we wanted to try to clean it up if we could. 00:43:14.860 --> 00:43:18.220 We have a number of recycling drop off areas in the city. 00:43:18.220 --> 00:43:22.460 This one was notorious for illegal dumping and contamination. 00:43:22.460 --> 00:43:27.260 This was right at the entrance of our facility, so essentially I think what would happen is someone would roll up, 00:43:27.260 --> 00:43:33.020 either were closed or they didn't like the price they got at the gate, so we got to take it for free out at the recycling drop off. 00:43:33.020 --> 00:43:40.420 So this is open access, there's video camera monitoring, but we really didn't have much enforcement going on. 00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:48.820 We're doing a good job diverting cardboard, because you can see with these containers, their slats really can't fit much in there besides flattened cardboard. 00:43:48.820 --> 00:43:53.980 Single stream diversion, which is your mixed recyclables, that's where we were really having a hard time. 00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:57.260 And so all of this right here is what we call contamination. 00:43:57.260 --> 00:44:02.740 We did a couple of material audits with our partners, Pratt, and they looked at it and said it's not worth sorting. 00:44:02.740 --> 00:44:11.180 So all of them went to the landfill, which is really unfortunate because you do have folks that are using these containers responsibly. 00:44:11.180 --> 00:44:14.420 So what we did is we moved this right next door to the public disposal area. 00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:19.500 As you can see, much cleaner, more organized, staff's on site to help the customer. 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:21.460 Cardboard diversion remains high. 00:44:21.460 --> 00:44:27.180 We were able to increase our single stream diversion to 80% versus the less than 1% we were getting before. 00:44:27.180 --> 00:44:33.300 So again, a much better result as moving this behind the gate. 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:37.180 So the remaining challenges we have mostly are related to the rubble processing. 00:44:37.180 --> 00:44:47.300 We estimate based on surveys and quotes from vendors that would help us out with this that we have about $1.5 million worth of stockpiles that need to be processed. 00:44:47.300 --> 00:44:50.660 Of that, we talked about contamination earlier. 00:44:50.660 --> 00:44:55.620 You can see this is fairly clean in spots, but you also have a lot of soil in here. 00:44:55.620 --> 00:44:58.020 This is almost entirely soil. 00:44:58.020 --> 00:45:01.460 You also have some materials up here that look like waste. 00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:05.700 The problem with soil is if it's not tested, we may not be able to divert it and use it on site. 00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:07.780 It may be classified as waste product. 00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:16.460 And so whenever we go through this and separate this material, we need to determine is this soil we can reuse for cover or is this soil we actually need to landfill. 00:45:16.460 --> 00:45:25.340 What that would mean is if we don't process any of this, we move all this into landfill, we've lost about $3.3 million of potential airspace. 00:45:25.340 --> 00:45:33.900 Processing, we feel confident that we could recover about $664,000 of that, that's that 20% recoverable material. 00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:42.180 The challenge is there is a limited resale market, and if we can't move it off site, then we'll typically reuse it for our operations. 00:45:42.180 --> 00:45:48.660 If we do process, we do have $180,000 in avoided costs because we do need that for our operations. 00:45:48.660 --> 00:45:58.900 What I would say is this is still upside down financially, but the biggest issue is the stockpiles are in the way of future landfill cell development, so we're going to have to move it anyhow. 00:45:58.900 --> 00:46:05.180 We might as well process it and try to get some use out of it if we can. 00:46:05.180 --> 00:46:13.100 So options and recommendations, option one is to discontinue the acceptance of rubble for commercial entities. 00:46:13.100 --> 00:46:19.540 We would implement quality standards for material from city departments, that's less than 5% contamination. 00:46:19.540 --> 00:46:24.140 We'll also sort and process the existing stockpiles over the next five years. 00:46:24.140 --> 00:46:31.900 Like we said, that is an expense to some plants, we would meter that out to occur over about a five year period. 00:46:31.900 --> 00:46:39.140 And then also we would recommend eliminating the BMR and continue with the public disposal and recycling drop off areas that we've created. 00:46:39.140 --> 00:46:42.500 Option two would be to reinstate these operations as they were. 00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:46.500 The associated operational cost capital investments would come back into the budget. 00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:53.340 We would need most likely a budget amendment to increase to about $680,000 to that $2.7 million you saw earlier. 00:46:53.340 --> 00:47:04.300 Anytime you have a operation out there that is under recovering on a financial basis, there is a subsidization that takes place. 00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:10.060 Some of that happens at the gate, some of that does get meted out to the residents and the businesses. 00:47:10.060 --> 00:47:18.980 So right now at that $2.7 million budget, current monthly costs to our residents range from 39 cents to 77 cents a month. 00:47:18.980 --> 00:47:24.980 Commercial, much wider swing, that's because the costs vary according to container size. 00:47:24.980 --> 00:47:32.780 Keep in mind traditionally, in the past, these are operations that businesses and residents weren't getting much benefit out of. 00:47:32.780 --> 00:47:42.060 As we talked about drawing down on your debt service, you do see about a 42 to 56% reduction, depending on the rate class. 00:47:42.060 --> 00:47:48.420 We believe if we play our cards right from a rate setting standpoint at the gate, we can eliminate the vast majority of that subsidization. 00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:56.500 Option two, if we were to go that route, would negate the year over year cost reductions and it would actually increase your monthly cost. 00:47:56.500 --> 00:48:01.500 Adding that $700,000 back in, this is what you'd be looking at in terms of subsidization. 00:48:03.220 --> 00:48:09.100 Talking to the committee on the environment, there are some environmental impacts here. 00:48:09.100 --> 00:48:14.060 Namely for option one, we're reducing about 20 pieces of heavy equipment. 00:48:14.060 --> 00:48:18.060 So that reduces our diesel consumption by about 19,000 gallons a year. 00:48:18.060 --> 00:48:21.300 And then you also have your emissions that would be reduced as well. 00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:27.380 Other factors like we talked about is the reduction of dust at the BMR and rubble processing. 00:48:27.380 --> 00:48:31.820 You also have less waste going into the landfill if we don't accept some of this material at all. 00:48:31.820 --> 00:48:35.460 But that also reduces your greenhouse gas emissions from the landfill operation. 00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:43.500 When we talked about this with the committee and the environment, their recommendation was to pursue option one. 00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:51.100 With a couple of additional pieces of direction is to try to explore some local partnerships to divert the building materials, i.e. brick. 00:48:51.100 --> 00:48:53.060 We have Acme Brick here on site. 00:48:53.060 --> 00:48:59.020 Again, this is not a recycle opportunity, but it may be a reuse opportunity for them. 00:48:59.020 --> 00:49:02.900 We can also consider rate changes to encourage either material sorting. 00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:08.500 Or if it's something where we don't really necessarily want to accept construction and demolition waste in landfill, 00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:11.700 we can use our rates to encourage folks to go elsewhere. 00:49:11.700 --> 00:49:18.820 So with that, I'll stand for questions and I'll back up to get in the PUB's direction. 00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:21.860 >> Questions? 00:49:24.500 --> 00:49:31.060 I guess one question that I have is when you say encourage them to go elsewhere, is there an elsewhere for them to go? 00:49:31.060 --> 00:49:36.180 >> There is, I mean, we are a regional facility, but there are other regional facilities in the area. 00:49:36.180 --> 00:49:41.900 Rubble processing is a great example is there's concrete processors all around our area. 00:49:41.900 --> 00:49:46.940 And so whenever we put a temporary hold on that, what would happen? 00:49:46.940 --> 00:49:49.300 Commercial operator come up, we don't accept that right now. 00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:53.580 Here's your list of options and we haven't had much pushback as it relates to that. 00:49:53.580 --> 00:49:57.420 And construction and demolition is something that we would have to take a closer look. 00:49:57.420 --> 00:50:05.740 I know Fort Worth runs a C and D only landfill, and so there are some opportunities there, but it may be a bit more of a drive. 00:50:05.740 --> 00:50:13.900 And I think probably the biggest thing that I would say on that is if that's something we want to explore, we can go back and do some more analysis. 00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:21.820 We also want to circle back with the PB and the council to have kind of a rate discussion, a rate strategy discussion as well, and we can provide that there too. 00:50:21.820 --> 00:50:26.980 >> I guess my only concern was just that you'd see more dumping as a, you know. 00:50:26.980 --> 00:50:28.780 >> That is one of the risks of it. 00:50:28.780 --> 00:50:29.580 >> Yeah. >> It is. 00:50:29.580 --> 00:50:30.080 >> Okay. 00:50:30.080 --> 00:50:34.420 >> Do we have a way of monitoring that risk? 00:50:34.420 --> 00:50:35.260 >> Illegal dumping? 00:50:35.260 --> 00:50:36.500 >> Yeah. 00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:37.700 >> Not a great one. 00:50:37.700 --> 00:50:40.340 I think that's something we would need to take back and take a look at. 00:50:40.340 --> 00:50:46.260 I know for the sites that we manage, we have a pretty good handle on it. 00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:49.620 But we probably need to visit with other city departments, code enforcement, etc. 00:50:49.620 --> 00:50:53.100 To figure out, where are you seeing this occur? 00:50:53.100 --> 00:50:57.660 And if we make a change from a rate standpoint, does that move the needle one way or the other? 00:50:57.660 --> 00:51:05.020 And I haven't done a lot of research on this, but typically that's why most cities provide bulky item collection and things like that. 00:51:05.020 --> 00:51:11.380 Because if we don't do the right thing by our residents, you have a situation like we had with our recycling drop off. 00:51:11.380 --> 00:51:15.140 >> Other questions? 00:51:15.140 --> 00:51:17.300 Go ahead, Brandon. 00:51:17.300 --> 00:51:19.980 >> That's okay, that's okay, I don't ask other times. 00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:23.180 >> So do you need direction from us as to which option? 00:51:23.180 --> 00:51:27.740 >> Certainly, we're going to be talking to council tomorrow and we'll include your recommendation in that discussion. 00:51:27.740 --> 00:51:32.540 >> So, what do you feel? 00:51:32.540 --> 00:51:35.340 >> It seems like option one is sort of a no-brainer, I don't know. 00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:36.340 >> Yes. 00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:43.540 >> But we don't want to go back to our citizens and say we're going to raise your rates for something that's not paying off. 00:51:43.540 --> 00:51:45.820 >> Something they're not benefiting from either. 00:51:45.820 --> 00:51:47.740 >> They're not benefiting from that operation. 00:51:47.740 --> 00:51:51.980 >> That's my feeling, option one. 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:57.700 >> Yeah, option one with the caveat that, I don't know, we might have to beef up some security to or 00:51:57.700 --> 00:52:04.020 take a look at if dumping is increasing, maybe finding a way to resolve that issue. 00:52:04.020 --> 00:52:11.460 >> Okay, so with rebel processing, 00:52:13.100 --> 00:52:19.820 if we couldn't account for 140,000 tons and 00:52:19.820 --> 00:52:29.380 let's just say they were diverted, that would have represented a 60% diversion, if that's what happened to it. 00:52:29.380 --> 00:52:37.180 So we haven't actually run the rebel processing operation in a responsible manner at any point. 00:52:37.180 --> 00:52:40.660 >> I would agree with that. 00:52:40.660 --> 00:52:46.540 So you're asking us to make a recommendation on suspending or 00:52:46.540 --> 00:52:51.420 canceling a project that at one point we saw benefit to, 00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:57.380 then we mismanaged it and now you're asking us to recommend closing it. 00:52:57.380 --> 00:53:04.340 And I have some trouble with that because one, where did 140,000 tons go? 00:53:05.660 --> 00:53:12.540 And so that seems, I have a hard time recommending stopping something 00:53:12.540 --> 00:53:16.420 other than just saying, well how come you can't just manage it properly? 00:53:16.420 --> 00:53:16.920 >> Right. 00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:23.340 >> So you want to spitball where you think the 140,000 tons went? 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:30.020 >> Well, like I said, our assumption is that it either went into one of our capital projects used on site. 00:53:30.020 --> 00:53:35.900 There's kind of a stone wall as you drive down the hill and you see bordering the landfill. 00:53:35.900 --> 00:53:39.620 Some staff said that that's where some of the material went. 00:53:39.620 --> 00:53:43.780 But the other possibility is it did go into road base or tipping pads. 00:53:43.780 --> 00:53:47.300 The third possibility to your point is it could have left the site. 00:53:47.300 --> 00:53:52.020 Now, if it did leave the site, that wouldn't mean it's diverted, but it didn't cross our scales. 00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:59.180 And so at this point, we've pretty much hit a dead end with trying to track down what happened to that material. 00:53:59.180 --> 00:54:04.980 And our assumption is that whatever happened to it, the diversion rate is probably close to what it is now, 00:54:04.980 --> 00:54:08.380 if it's anything similar to the material that we've processed previously. 00:54:08.380 --> 00:54:14.020 So I know that's not great information, but that's the best that we've been able to do with all of our research. 00:54:14.020 --> 00:54:20.780 >> During fiscal year 2012 through fiscal year 2017, 00:54:20.780 --> 00:54:25.180 did we have a different definition of diversion? 00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:29.180 >> I'm not sure what the definition was. 00:54:29.180 --> 00:54:31.380 What I will say is there were various materials. 00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:36.100 Let me use lumber as an example to where that was being counted as a diverted material. 00:54:36.100 --> 00:54:39.540 But what was actually happening is it was being processed and 00:54:39.540 --> 00:54:45.460 then put into the liquid disposal operation to kind of be a bulking agent. 00:54:45.460 --> 00:54:47.540 All that ended up in the landfill. 00:54:47.540 --> 00:54:50.540 And so by our definition, that's not diversion. 00:54:50.540 --> 00:54:51.260 >> No, it's not. 00:54:51.260 --> 00:54:52.220 >> I agree. 00:54:52.220 --> 00:54:56.340 >> That's reuse, but it's ultimately going straight into the landfill. 00:54:56.340 --> 00:55:00.820 I think when you look at some of the rubble is if it's not leaving the site, 00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:04.300 it eventually finds its way into the landfill somehow. 00:55:04.300 --> 00:55:08.460 What that means, you can break this material down to make it compact better. 00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:13.260 Most of these materials are already pretty dense and there's limited upside gain for 00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:16.540 going to that level of processing just to bury it. 00:55:16.540 --> 00:55:21.180 Compactors and some of the material or machinery we use on the site does a pretty good job of compacting that on its own. 00:55:23.740 --> 00:55:30.900 >> Just had a, looking into the future, I was just curious if suddenly there's like this huge run on rubble and 00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:39.860 we could make lots of money off of it, how long would it take to re-instate a kind of rubble recovery operation? 00:55:39.860 --> 00:55:43.260 >> It would really depend on how we want to implement that. 00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:48.340 So if we were to bring in an outside contractor to process, you can turn that up pretty quickly. 00:55:48.340 --> 00:55:50.900 I mean, essentially, you're looking at procurement time on that. 00:55:50.900 --> 00:55:55.180 If we wanted to do it in-house, we'd be sourcing several pieces of heavy equipment. 00:55:55.180 --> 00:56:00.100 So it'd typically be longer than a six month period, maybe a year, we'd probably get it up and running. 00:56:00.100 --> 00:56:03.940 >> By which time the rubble market may be dropping, so. 00:56:03.940 --> 00:56:11.020 >> And that's the challenge of making a capital investment for five to ten years and you're subject to the market fluctuations. 00:56:11.020 --> 00:56:16.580 And we see that all across our industry, so you really have to kind of weigh the risk out of that whenever you look at it. 00:56:16.580 --> 00:56:19.860 >> I just want to get some clarification. 00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:26.020 So we're just discontinuing from commercial entities, which have another alternative to go to. 00:56:26.020 --> 00:56:31.180 So should we be competing with those other alternatives? 00:56:31.180 --> 00:56:40.060 We should be serving our citizens, certainly, but is it our role to compete in commercial rubble? 00:56:40.060 --> 00:56:41.380 Is that our role? 00:56:41.380 --> 00:56:46.180 >> Well, it seems as though quite a bit of it could have been used on site. 00:56:46.180 --> 00:56:52.340 And so that's us getting paid to take something and then not having to purchase it. 00:56:52.340 --> 00:56:56.100 So that's not necessarily a commercial operation, is it? 00:56:56.100 --> 00:57:01.060 >> I think the source of which you're getting it from is the commercial. 00:57:01.060 --> 00:57:04.580 Am I understanding that correctly? 00:57:04.580 --> 00:57:08.100 >> Yeah, most of this is coming from contractors and commercial operators. 00:57:08.100 --> 00:57:12.860 >> Right. >> And there are other private entities that provide processing services for rubble. 00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:17.780 >> One of the things, I think we're kind of circling back to the financial losses and you say, how did we get here? 00:57:17.780 --> 00:57:23.020 Most of the rates that were set and applied in these cases, it was price matching. 00:57:23.020 --> 00:57:25.740 So you can take the sum of these processors. 00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:31.660 They'll accept them material free because they're so efficient at processing it that they will make up their money on the back end. 00:57:31.660 --> 00:57:35.700 For us, in order to compete there, we say no charge at the gate. 00:57:35.700 --> 00:57:40.820 Then we must make up our financial loss on the other side to sell it and move it off site. 00:57:40.820 --> 00:57:46.300 So that's exactly what happened here is we were accepting this at a cut rate or even free in some cases. 00:57:46.300 --> 00:57:53.220 And then we're trying to price match more efficient operators on the sales and we couldn't move the product. 00:57:53.220 --> 00:57:57.420 We also have an inferior product that if we were to try to compete with them on a quality basis, 00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:01.020 it's going to cost us about twice as much in terms of processing. 00:58:01.020 --> 00:58:06.780 And so I think certainly from where we stand, 00:58:06.780 --> 00:58:12.460 it's the POV and the council's pleasure on what we do in terms of competing or not competing. 00:58:12.460 --> 00:58:18.540 I think from a staff perspective, what we would say is we're going to have a hard time competing on a cost basis, 00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:21.180 on a price basis with those that do this for a living. 00:58:21.180 --> 00:58:25.740 >> So back to direction. 00:58:25.740 --> 00:58:27.500 I think we have three saying option one. 00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:37.260 >> I think I'm going to just reserve my opinion. 00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:39.060 Well, I've already made it clear. 00:58:39.060 --> 00:58:42.660 >> All right, do you have what you need? 00:58:42.660 --> 00:58:45.300 Okay, thank you. 00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:53.500 All right, we're going to move the closed item to the end of the meeting. 00:58:53.500 --> 00:59:00.140 So onto consent agenda. 00:59:00.140 --> 00:59:03.300 Does any board member wish to pull an item? 00:59:03.300 --> 00:59:07.300 >> I'd like to pull E. 00:59:07.300 --> 00:59:10.260 >> Any others? 00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:23.140 Okay, do we have a motion to approve A through D, F, and okay, A through D and F. 00:59:23.140 --> 00:59:24.620 >> Second. >> Second. 00:59:24.620 --> 00:59:26.220 >> All in favor? 00:59:26.220 --> 00:59:27.340 >> Aye. >> Aye. 00:59:27.340 --> 00:59:27.860 >> Opposed? 00:59:27.860 --> 00:59:29.900 Okay, item E. 00:59:29.900 --> 00:59:41.620 >> I just had a quick question on this, which can probably be handled in two sentences. 00:59:41.620 --> 00:59:48.620 I was wondering if the roof of City Hall was subject to historic landmark rules. 00:59:48.620 --> 00:59:52.660 Since this is an O'Neill Ford building. 00:59:52.660 --> 00:59:53.700 >> I'm trying to answer that question. 00:59:53.700 --> 00:59:58.100 Our facilities manager called in sick this morning, so bear with me. 00:59:58.100 --> 01:00:01.420 No, ma'am, because it's a maintenance item, so it is not all under. 01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:03.060 >> So it's not changing any of the visual? 01:00:03.060 --> 01:00:08.180 >> No, ma'am, it's purely just the structural, just to make sure that it doesn't leak. 01:00:08.180 --> 01:00:12.180 >> Yeah, it's a flat roof, so I'm assuming there's nothing visible from the street anyway. 01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:17.220 I didn't want these neat little wood slats to be messed with, for instance, sir. 01:00:17.220 --> 01:00:19.060 >> Actually, those are new, so they're not going to be messed with. 01:00:19.060 --> 01:00:20.100 >> Those ones are new, yes, ma'am. 01:00:23.140 --> 01:00:24.460 >> Okay, that was my only question. 01:00:24.460 --> 01:00:28.100 >> Okay, do we have a motion to approve item E? 01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:30.380 >> So moved. 01:00:30.380 --> 01:00:32.060 >> Second? 01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:33.220 >> Second. 01:00:33.220 --> 01:00:34.700 >> All in favor, say aye. 01:00:34.700 --> 01:00:35.740 >> Aye. >> Opposed? 01:00:35.740 --> 01:00:37.900 Motion carries. 01:00:37.900 --> 01:00:40.540 Items for individual consideration. 01:00:40.540 --> 01:00:45.180 The first item is approval of the board minutes of November 12th, 2018. 01:00:45.180 --> 01:00:47.980 Are there any changes or comments? 01:00:47.980 --> 01:00:52.420 Okay, having none, we'll approve as presented. 01:00:53.620 --> 01:00:54.300 ACM update. 01:00:54.300 --> 01:01:02.660 >> Madam Chair, members of the board, in your packet, you have a memo from Nick Vincent to me 01:01:02.660 --> 01:01:06.500 about the water and wastewater rate comparisons around the region. 01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:11.540 If you have any questions, specific questions to those, Nick is here to answer those questions for you. 01:01:11.540 --> 01:01:21.420 Along with that, you'll notice in your future agenda list the month of January is going to be pretty busy with some reports coming forward. 01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:27.540 And we'll be bringing to you more information about the commercial recycling. 01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:32.540 Also, the report on the performance of the Denton Energy Center as far as the financials. 01:01:32.540 --> 01:01:38.460 And the first of a number of quarterly reports that we were bringing forward to you all about our CIP and 01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:45.420 our projects that are happening around the community, just to keep the PUB informed of those activities and projects. 01:01:45.420 --> 01:01:48.780 And I have nothing further to report. 01:01:50.100 --> 01:01:53.820 >> All right, so now we can do concluding items and then close, Larry? 01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:59.620 >> Yes, Madam. >> Okay, concluding items, are there any items any board member would wish to have put on the agenda? 01:01:59.620 --> 01:02:07.780 >> I just, I wanted to reiterate that I wanted the dumpsters on right-of-ways, 01:02:07.780 --> 01:02:12.260 especially on Oak Street, to be added to the discussion about the Mews buildings on square. 01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:20.020 Or some of the solutions to the dumpsters in the Mews area could be applied to other streets. 01:02:21.060 --> 01:02:22.780 To get the dumpsters off the sidewalks. 01:02:22.780 --> 01:02:26.860 >> Okay, any other items? 01:02:26.860 --> 01:02:35.260 >> I just wanted to, I actually e-mailed Mario over the last week or so about, 01:02:35.260 --> 01:02:39.540 we got a public notification regarding, I can't remember what it was now. 01:02:39.540 --> 01:02:48.740 But we've received also another one for the closure of Eagle between Elm and 01:02:48.740 --> 01:02:52.380 Merrill for five months for a drainage project. 01:02:52.380 --> 01:03:04.340 And I was just wondering if we could get some kind of in-meeting notification that those things are going to happen before the public gets notified that they're going to happen. 01:03:04.340 --> 01:03:13.940 Just so we can help, we can actually help diffuse that a little bit if we can help explain to those people who are concerned about it. 01:03:13.940 --> 01:03:19.460 >> We can certainly do that, it's just to get the information out to the board members and council as well. 01:03:19.460 --> 01:03:24.620 A lot of times what we do is those press releases are sent to the council. 01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:33.100 The day of that we send it out to the community as well, to our various media outlets, and so just in a different format. 01:03:33.100 --> 01:03:39.020 But we can work with our public communications office to include you certainly on that distribution list. 01:03:39.020 --> 01:03:44.500 So that way you're not seeing it when the public sees it, you see it a little bit ahead of time, just as a heads up. 01:03:44.500 --> 01:03:45.100 >> All right, thank you. 01:03:45.100 --> 01:03:50.260 >> Okay, so I'm looking at Larry. 01:03:50.260 --> 01:03:52.460 We adjourn? 01:03:52.460 --> 01:03:54.740 Okay, we need a motion to adjourn the meeting. 01:03:54.740 --> 01:03:59.500 >> I move we adjourn our open meeting. 01:03:59.500 --> 01:04:00.780 >> Adjourning the public meeting. 01:04:00.780 --> 01:04:02.660 >> Yes, the public meeting, there you go. 01:04:02.660 --> 01:04:04.860 >> Okay, Brendan motioned. 01:04:04.860 --> 01:04:06.140 >> Approved. 01:04:06.140 --> 01:04:06.940 >> No, no, no. 01:04:06.940 --> 01:04:08.540 >> Lillia seconded. 01:04:08.540 --> 01:04:10.260 All in favor say aye. 01:04:10.260 --> 01:04:11.740 >> Aye. 01:04:11.740 --> 01:04:12.540 >> Opposed? 01:04:12.540 --> 01:04:14.780 Okay, go into closed session.