WEBVTT

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 >> Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and call the regular meeting to order right now at 537 PM.

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 Jerry is on his way, but if we can get a couple of things out of the way, then we can be on our way.

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 Here we go.

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 If you'll please stand for the pledges of allegiance.

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 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

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 And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Under the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one, and indivisible.

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 >> All right, if you'll please look at number two on our meeting agenda.

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 And we're going to look for considering the approval of the 2019 Historic Landmark Commission calendar.

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 Has everybody had a chance to look at the proposed calendar for 2019?

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 I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

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 >> Madam Chair?

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 >> Yes. >> Isn't our January meeting on Martin Luther King Day, the 14th of January?

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 >> This is Veterans Day.

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 >> This is Veterans Day.

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 Are we all out?

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 >> I'm out.

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 >> King Day?

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 I think I am as well, actually.

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 >> So could we move it to the 21st?

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 Is that an option?

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 >> Is the 21st- >> Wrong?

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 >> We're looking- >> Are you checking?

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 >> MLK might be the 21st.

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 >> MLK is the 21st.

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 >> Yes.

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 >> Oh, okay.

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 >> Oh, it's the 21st?

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 >> Yes. >> Well then, cool.

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 >> Excellent.

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 >> Thank you. >> I think that is why we-

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 >> I told her to shut up.

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 >> He marked, we've marked it off, so.

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 >> They have to count this one in March, but that's fine.

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 >> How come the one in March is on the 4th?

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 >> Because of spring break.

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 >> Because of spring break.

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 >> Spring break, and the other option is if you want to push it to the 18th.

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 We just want it, we usually move things up.

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 >> For a spring break, yeah.

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 >> Mm-hm.

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 >> April is the 8th.

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 >> The 8th.

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 >> [INAUDIBLE]

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 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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 >> [INAUDIBLE]

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 >> Okay, any other questions?

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 >> Sorry.

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 >> Any other- >> So we're all good with this, I guess?

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 >> Yeah.

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 >> Any clarifications regarding the dates?

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 Concerns?

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 Ron?

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 >> No, just, again, just reiterating if there are any questions.

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 We can address them, or if not, we just want to get your direction moving forward.

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 >> Okay, as I'm looking through, I want to just, because I think on the school

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 calendar, that looks good for May.

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 >> I mean, otherwise it looks very- >> When is it scheduled for May?

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 >> Mm-hm, and I guess it wouldn't be scheduled on the 8th in July,

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 because 4th of July weekend.

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 >> The after, yes.

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 >> Okay, all right.

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 >> I move we approve the calendar as offered.

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 >> The motion is made by Roy.

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 >> Second.

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 >> Excellent, it is seconded by Helen Bailey, about half a second.

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 The fourth can if.

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 >> Is there any discussion to be had?

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 We've got a motion on the floor.

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 Great, all those in favor, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All those opposed, please say nay.

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 The ayes have it.

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 The motion is approved, five, six, no denials.

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 All right, let's take a look at item B.

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 Consider approval of the Historic Landmark Commission meeting minutes.

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 And Ron, did you say that we could have- >> Yes.

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 >> This executive decision to go ahead and approve the September meeting minutes as well?

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 >> Yes, from the members that are present and majority, of course.

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 >> Excellent, so has everybody had a chance to look over the September and

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 October minutes, and should we do those as two separate agenda items or as one?

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 >> Let's do them separate.

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 >> All right, please take a look at the September 10th, 2018, meeting minutes.

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 If you haven't had a chance to already.

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 And if anybody would like to make a motion.

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 Mary moves that we approve the minutes.

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 Thank you, Ms. Anderson.

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 Does she have a second?

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 >> I'll second.

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 >> Kenneth, thank you for your second.

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 Any discussion?

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 Concerns?

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 Great.

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 Let's go ahead and take a vote.

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 All those in favor of approving the September 10th minutes, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All in favor?

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 All those opposed, please say nay.

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 Great, no nays.

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 The ayes have it, six ayes, no nays.

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 Let's please take a look at the October 8th minutes.

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 And if anybody has a motion to make, please do so.

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 >> Move.

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 >> Not everybody at once.

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 >> I make motion to approve October 8th, 2018 minutes.

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 >> Great, thank you so much for your motion, Kenneth.

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 Does anybody have a second for Kenneth's motion for approval?

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 Thank you, Mary Anderson, for your approval.

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 For your second.

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 Any clarifications, questions regarding the minutes?

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 Great.

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 All those in favor, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All those opposed, please say nay.

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 The motion is to approve the minutes for October the 8th, it passes with six, no denials.

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 Let's go ahead and move on to agenda item 2C.

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 We're going to take a look at the public, we're going to hold a public meeting and

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 consider an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness.

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 Let me clarify this.

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 We have an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness

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 in accordance with section 35.7.6.8A to install solar panels on the home located at 2212 West Oak Street.

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 The home is located on the north side of West Oak between Bradley and Thomas Street in the West Oak Historic District.

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 The presentation will be given by Roman McAllen.

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 Welcome, Roman.

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 >> Okay, hello everybody.

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 >> Hello.

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 >> So bear with me, I got a lot of slides on this one.

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 So you know the house.

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 This is a photograph under construction about three weeks ago, I think.

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 The rehabilitation that you all approved a while back, as you see in your packet.

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 It was November of 2017, I think, is when that work started.

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 So I'm going to talk, we have two items about solar panels.

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 And in fact, I thought to go through both of these slide presentations quickly,

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 because I think the situation for both of them is similar.

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 And then maybe you could come back and consider the items, because they really tie together very closely.

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 So a couple notes from the Secretary of Interior's standards on solar panels.

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 This is all from their language here.

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 And so they say that solar panels that are installed that cannot be seen from the ground

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 will generally meet the Secretary of Interior's standards.

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 And then on the other hand, if installation negatively impacts the character of the district or

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 the property, then they wouldn't meet the standards.

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 But then, and I shouldn't have really changed the font.

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 This is right out of their book.

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 But what about that gray area between out of sight and obviously obtrusive installations?

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 So although every project is different, this is their language as well.

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 It must be evaluated on its own merit.

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 The National Park Service has developed this guidance on how to apply the standards to

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 the installation of solar panels.

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 And then they have some examples in their book.

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 And I need to step away just to really point out, I picked these three examples.

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 This one here, this one is some solar panels installed here.

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 And these are the different types of buildings.

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 So on a cross-gabled structure, they mentioned that this is okay because

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 it's minimized by the complexity of the side elevation.

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 So this whole side elevations complexity,

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 they felt that that didn't detract from the integrity of the structure.

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 And then down here below, they also said the same thing.

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 And I can't remember the facade that faces the street.

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 I can't see him there, but I can't remember the project there.

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 So we'll move to the next one, but there's some light there.

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 Now in this situation here on a rear side porch, I really didn't need to put this in.

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 Here's kind of the front elevation, and way back there, there's a side porch.

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 And on the back of that side porch, you have, and that's just blatantly obvious,

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 very far away from the front.

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 And then here on a low-slope gable, and there's the low-slope gable roof.

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 And you can kind of see those panels right there.

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 So then they say these are minimally visible, and they're located on the south side.

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 And then they have another image of it.

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 So from this angle, the panels are more noticeable, yet the historic character of the building

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 is not significantly diminished.

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 And so you get a three-story old gable building.

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 So that's what you get from the national standards.

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 Well that's one part, let's say, of the national standards.

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 Here's another booklet.

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 They have lots of things out on this subject.

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 And here, there's two pages, and they talk about different technology here.

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 And I didn't really actually read through these.

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 So this is one that's installing a low-profile solar device on historic buildings so that

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 it is not visible or only minimally visible from the public right of way is recommended.

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 And also installing it in a manner that does not damage the historic roofing material or

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 negatively impact the building's historic character.

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 And then installing them flat to reduce visibility work.

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 So they were OK with this as sort of the rear of this commercial building near a ramp, I

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 believe, a back door.

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 So they were OK with that.

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 Here's some on a flat surface.

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 And here, the panels negatively impact, obviously, the front of that building.

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 Some more examples.

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 And so it says that this is interesting.

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 Some cities have chosen to require that people exhaust all other efficiency methodologies

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 prior to installing the solar panels.

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 And I saw that mentioned a couple of times.

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 So this refers to that.

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 Consider on-site solar technology only after implementing all appropriate treatments to

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 improve energy efficiency of the building, which often have greater life cycle cost benefits.

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 Knowing the contractor on this building, he actually has probably put a lot more energy

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 efficiency into this building than anyone else normally would have.

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 Analyzing whether the technology can be successful and will benefit the building.

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 Will it work?

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 They're basically asking, will it work?

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 And then minimal impact, looking for minimal impact again.

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 And in locations that have been feasible.

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 So no trees or something else blocking it.

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 So given that, here's our site.

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 And I wanted to just give it in scale.

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 You know, the University of North Texas is down here.

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 And Hickory and Oak, and this is the site that we're dealing with.

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 These properties all have a pretty similar setback.

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 And then when you get down here on this part of Oak, these structures, the one we toured

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 last year was here, was demolished.

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 So that's where we're dealing with.

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 And just another coming a little closer to the site here, looking at it.

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 And again, just a little closer, working up to the site in the situation that we have

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 on this house.

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 The drawing that the contractor submitted shows you that these solar panels would be

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 mounted on this kind of low pitch porch that's on the front of the building and on this side

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 addition, later addition to the building out here.

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 And then some on the second floor facing west between these gables.

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 So here's a 3D image of that.

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 So there's the low pitch panels there.

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 And then the panels on this side building.

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 And then there's some you can't see here, so we can see them up here.

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 So this is the front that you see from West Oak.

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 And there are those side panels.

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 So I wanted to give you a sense of what that feels like.

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 Please watch this.

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 I think this isn't critical here.

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 This is the experience one has currently if you're driving one way westbound on Oak.

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 As you approach this property, these photographs were taken at approximately eye level in what

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 would be a car.

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 I actually just walked down the street to do this.

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 But there's the building off to the right.

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 And although these trees are green today, you can imagine that they do lose their leaves

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 and I have proof of that in another image.

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 But the addition is back here.

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 You would see these panels up there on that one accessory, on the addition.

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 And this is as you pass the house.

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 And if you're really getting right in front of the house, you'd be looking through in

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 this area.

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 So that side, the low pitch porch is right here.

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 And then that addition is over there.

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 And of course it's pretty hard to see back.

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 Those additional panels would be up here.

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 If you're a pedestrian and you looked hard, you would make them out.

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 So there's the low pitch porch right there.

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 So you'd end up with a little bit of a dark, probably a little extra line there, two to

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 three or four inches above I guess the surface of that.

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 This is going to be a standing seam roof, I believe, on that porch.

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 So just reiterating, there's the satellite image sort of of this, sort of, because we

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 were to granulate a Google Earth image, and then that's generally where you'd be looking

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 at those panels to be installed.

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 Now if you're -- this is a very close-up image of the building, and so those panels would

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 be again above here on this part of the building, and then over there, you can kind of make

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 out that roof, and that's right in front of the building.

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 This is a winter image prior to renovation work.

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 And I'm up obviously in the circular drive, and so those panels would be on the side over

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 here, up here, and over there.

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 Given this situation, this is the recommendation for approval for this addition.

00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.280
 Now let me show you the next building before we get into discussion.

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 Next building is closer to downtown, here, we're over here.

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 And just coincidentally we had an application.

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 This is the lovely home at 723 West Oak, and this building over here is where he's asking

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 to put solar panels on.

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 These pictures are from this morning.

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 So again, coming down the street, this is not the house, it's up this driveway here,

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 and the panels would be on the western face of this garage.

00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:52.120
 And you again might be able, if you get in the right spot in your pedestrian, you might

00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:58.640
 be able to see those panels here on the edge and a little bit further if you walked a little

00:16:58.640 --> 00:16:59.640
 further along.

00:16:59.640 --> 00:17:02.160
 But it's pretty difficult when you pass that building.

00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:03.160
 Here's a better image.

00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:06.680
 So you might be able to see them there.

00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:12.740
 So do you have any questions for me about that, and so I'm recommending approval because

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:18.000
 to me overall, and by the way, I want to make sure it's clear, there is an email, a copy

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:25.200
 of an email you have from Patty Hayworth, who's here tonight, and she's opposed to these

00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.600
 and you got the email there, please read it.

00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:35.840
 And I understand there could be some opposition, but in my mind, there doesn't seem to be enough

00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:43.840
 taking away from the building in its place nor the district given the situation for both

00:17:43.840 --> 00:17:44.920
 houses.

00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:46.280
 But we're talking about this one first.

00:17:46.280 --> 00:17:51.240
 This one in its distance from the street is the real, you know, if this was right up on

00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.680
 the street, it would be different, I think, because these panels would be a little closer.

00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:05.040
 But this is, historically we know this house developed in stages and dramatically, dramatic

00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:10.920
 alterations were made to this main structure around the turn of the century.

00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.840
 And I hate to show you that image because, of course, it looks a lot better today.

00:18:13.840 --> 00:18:18.800
 It has efficient windows on it and just an amazing amount of work has gone into this

00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:21.060
 building.

00:18:21.060 --> 00:18:23.960
 Any questions?

00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.340
 I have a question, Roman.

00:18:26.340 --> 00:18:32.440
 My question is about, I mean, if somebody, how do you get enough solar efficiency to

00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.600
 make this worthwhile because none of these are facing, it seems, at the right angle to

00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:38.600
 the right direction.

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:42.340
 And the only way to accomplish this may be to remove trees to get more sunlight, which

00:18:42.340 --> 00:18:46.320
 worries me to know in because these are gorgeous trees you just showed.

00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:51.680
 So I don't see how efficient at this angle you're going to get except maybe in the wintertime

00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:57.440
 and facing west is not exactly the most best place for solar.

00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.720
 I'm not an expert on those questions, Mary.

00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:01.320
 I could hypothesize.

00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:07.240
 I think the trees that are in the lawn are pretty far away from the building, especially

00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:08.740
 on the front side.

00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:14.040
 But the contractor is here and I'm sure he's very knowledgeable on the direction of it.

00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:15.040
 And, Mary, you're correct.

00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:17.040
 The south side is what you really want.

00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:19.960
 And you also want them at a slight angle, not flat.

00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:20.960
 Right.

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:21.960
 Exactly.

00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:29.520
 To get the best efficiency out of a solar panel array.

00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:32.760
 So I had the same question.

00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:35.240
 So some of these are south-facing and some are not.

00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:36.240
 Hold on.

00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.240
 They're south-facing.

00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:38.520
 Yeah, a little bit.

00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:42.680
 But our question is not -- the question before us is not -- on the agenda is not whether

00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:44.120
 or not they're efficient.

00:19:44.120 --> 00:19:48.200
 The question is whether or not they detract from the historical property or character

00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.640
 of the property.

00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.960
 So I want to make sure that we're staying on track and considering what's actually before

00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:54.960
 us.

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.960
 Thank you.

00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:56.960
 Mr. Drake.

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:57.960
 Yes.

00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:05.360
 I just wanted to make sure we have called item C, I believe, to -- on the agenda.

00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:11.520
 We haven't actually called item D on the agenda, but it sounds like some of our discussion

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:15.160
 has incorporated item D discussion as well.

00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:21.280
 You know, and I think that maybe partially because parts of the presentation went into

00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:23.080
 item D also.

00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:30.960
 I think that you could probably hear them both simultaneously if you call them both,

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.820
 as far as under the Texas Open Meetings Act.

00:20:33.820 --> 00:20:39.760
 Otherwise, we should probably focus on C first, then call item D, and then have our discussion

00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:40.760
 on that.

00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:41.760
 Thank you.

00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:46.200
 Since we are on item C, I would like for us to remain on item C, please.

00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:47.200
 Thank you.

00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.200
 Yes, Angie.

00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:57.440
 So on the solar panels, on this little porch here, are they going to stay flat?

00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.200
 Are these going to be ones that are able to move?

00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:05.440
 Because I've seen them where they can adjust for -- to be able to get the energy.

00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.120
 So are they going to stay flat or are they going to be adjustable?

00:21:08.120 --> 00:21:12.720
 I think the contractor should answer that, I'm not sure.

00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.920
 Any other questions for Roman?

00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.380
 Mary.

00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:27.800
 I saw you say early on with the first slides, just show me the -- make sure we had the wording

00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:28.800
 correctly.

00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:29.800
 Uh-huh.

00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:30.800
 What it is.

00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:31.800
 So you got this one.

00:21:31.800 --> 00:21:32.800
 Let's keep going back.

00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:37.800
 I think it was like the second or third slide.

00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.800
 Okay.

00:21:38.800 --> 00:21:39.800
 You got these different roof types.

00:21:39.800 --> 00:21:40.800
 No, it was -- this is here, right here.

00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:41.800
 This is the first one, I guess.

00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:51.920
 So solar panels, seeing that's not true, at least for this one, negatively impacts the

00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:57.920
 historic character of the students, and then there's the gray area.

00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.480
 So it doesn't actually say what negatively impacts the historic character.

00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.040
 It doesn't define that.

00:22:03.040 --> 00:22:09.240
 So when we're looking at the photos, can you go forward two photos?

00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:13.040
 Can you go forward two more?

00:22:13.040 --> 00:22:14.040
 Keep going.

00:22:14.040 --> 00:22:15.040
 Okay.

00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:16.040
 Go back.

00:22:16.040 --> 00:22:17.040
 Two.

00:22:17.040 --> 00:22:19.040
 Thank you.

00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:21.360
 I wanted to -- one more.

00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:29.080
 I wanted to point out that it does say not recommended is installing a solar device that

00:22:29.080 --> 00:22:31.760
 is not reversible.

00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:37.960
 That means that recommended would be something that is reversible, because it would not impact

00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:43.240
 the actual integrity of the structure over time.

00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:53.320
 So just -- and if we're looking at this, we are seeing actual awnings on the right-of-way

00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:57.060
 that are seen that are solar panels.

00:22:57.060 --> 00:23:01.080
 That's not -- well, that's the back entrance.

00:23:01.080 --> 00:23:02.080
 That's what I'm saying.

00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:03.080
 Right.

00:23:03.080 --> 00:23:04.080
 That's not the front.

00:23:04.080 --> 00:23:05.080
 Go back one.

00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:06.080
 Secondary location.

00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:07.080
 Right.

00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:08.360
 And then to the back.

00:23:08.360 --> 00:23:09.360
 Go back one more.

00:23:09.360 --> 00:23:11.360
 I don't know where you want to go.

00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:13.520
 There's only two pages that look like this.

00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:18.140
 There's the houses side by side, that one, where the white -- because we've seen this

00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:24.480
 before when we had solar panels brought up about a year ago.

00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:32.200
 We have that low profile on the White House that is seen from the right-of-way as well.

00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:36.000
 You mentioned -- I think it's important to point out, and I did in my presentation, that

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.360
 several years ago there was a property in the West Oak Historic District that wanted

00:23:40.360 --> 00:23:48.960
 solar panels, and it was denied by the Landmark Commission, and that applicant went to --

00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:49.960
 City Council.

00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:50.960
 Yeah, went to City Council.

00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:55.040
 But before he did that, he went to every member of the West Oak Historic District, and they

00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:56.040
 signed --

00:23:56.040 --> 00:23:57.040
 West Oak.

00:23:57.040 --> 00:23:58.040
 Yeah, West Oak.

00:23:58.040 --> 00:23:59.960
 And they signed a petition.

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:02.000
 I don't know if -- I think it was everybody.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.000
 I doubt it.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.000
 Almost got them all.

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:05.000
 It was a large number.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.240
 But they all were in favor of it, and those panels are on that structure today on the

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.680
 west side of the second floor, kind of where these would be.

00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:12.680
 Right.

00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:14.680
 But they are definitely visible from the right-of-way.

00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.560
 I have one other question.

00:24:17.560 --> 00:24:18.560
 Yes, Angie.

00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:19.560
 Thank you.

00:24:19.560 --> 00:24:20.560
 No, go ahead.

00:24:20.560 --> 00:24:21.560
 He had his hand up first.

00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:22.560
 Oh.

00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:29.880
 Well, I'm just -- for the point of order here, Roman, these standards that are listed as

00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:36.360
 sort of federal recommendations and standards and all, are they actually incorporated into

00:24:36.360 --> 00:24:43.480
 our code, or are they examples of how -- that may be instructive into how others view this

00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:44.480
 issue?

00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:46.040
 It's a very good question.

00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:54.800
 That's the latter point is true, because our ordinance, as pointed out in your staff report,

00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:57.760
 we have criteria for denial.

00:24:57.760 --> 00:24:59.900
 That's our criteria for denial.

00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:05.160
 We have not adopted the United States Secretary of Interior's standards as required.

00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:13.680
 And there's a caveat to that, except in one place, Belle Avenue Conservation District

00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:19.160
 adopted -- they're in there as an appendix, so it doesn't say what they're there for,

00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:20.600
 but their guidelines are in that.

00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:25.240
 Now, going forward, as soon as we get the DDC code done, we will be utilizing them as

00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.080
 a guide, I believe.

00:25:27.080 --> 00:25:31.360
 Their guidance for our decision -- they won't be any stronger then than they are now.

00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:33.640
 They're a tool for making decisions.

00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:40.640
 So the point being that -- just so there's no misunderstanding, these are not a standard,

00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.200
 and there's no binding impact on this.

00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:48.000
 I believe staff's bringing them forward as potentially instructive in guiding you through

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.360
 your decision.

00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:50.360
 Okay.

00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:51.360
 Thank you.

00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:52.360
 Angie.

00:25:52.360 --> 00:25:53.360
 Okay.

00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:54.360
 Do you have a question?

00:25:54.360 --> 00:25:55.360
 I do.

00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:59.320
 A lot of times you mentioned how far off the road the structure is.

00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:04.360
 And I'm just wondering, in these standards, I didn't see anything that addressed that.

00:26:04.360 --> 00:26:08.920
 It actually just said -- and that's what I wanted to clarify -- there was nothing that

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:14.280
 said how far off of a right-of-way or that visually that you could see it.

00:26:14.280 --> 00:26:19.120
 And so that's my question, is there anything in those standards, because I'd hate to do

00:26:19.120 --> 00:26:24.320
 it based on where a structure is located and not for someone else because of where it's

00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.320
 located.

00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:30.720
 So here at the very up front, they talk about cannot be seen from the ground, where you're

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:31.720
 standing there.

00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.200
 So there's that reference there.

00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:38.920
 And then in each of these descriptions, they talk about a little bit of -- it's visible,

00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:44.560
 but it's not a bad problem, like this one here, minimal -- or, no, I'm sorry, this bottom

00:26:44.560 --> 00:26:47.440
 one, which I can't quite read, is -- I can't even see.

00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.200
 The front of the King's Daughter's home, the solar panels are installed on the facade that

00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.200
 faces the street.

00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.200
 So the question is, it is relevant to where, you know, you could see it.

00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:01.160
 In the case of this building, the main thing to think of in my mind is just that distance.

00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:07.680
 Does it take away from the historic character of this house from right there?

00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:14.400
 And you could imagine in the winter soon, you know, you'll see that -- there's that

00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:15.400
 little pitch out there.

00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:19.080
 Out over there, you're going to see a few panels.

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:21.880
 And you're not really going to be able to see these.

00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:30.480
 It's going to look like a little thickness to the porch line, which -- and then, of course,

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.940
 those up there, you're not going to see at all unless you're walking and you maybe even

00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:40.360
 have to come up in the lawn here to get to it.

00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:44.040
 It really appears to me -- and if you get up right up in front of the building, now

00:27:44.040 --> 00:27:49.200
 if you're even standing right there, your prominent features are this gable, the height

00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:52.240
 of this gable, these dormers, this roof, this porch.

00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.560
 There's a lot of integrity all in there, and you're not going to have a panel.

00:27:55.560 --> 00:28:00.440
 Here you won't see those panels, but barely be able to visualize them above that.

00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:05.200
 And then these are -- you would see maybe the first two or three, I think those maybe

00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:09.260
 four or however many panels can be used on that side.

00:28:09.260 --> 00:28:14.840
 So given that scene -- and here's a little further out, but here, again, I'm halfway

00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:18.920
 up in the yard at least to get that view of it.

00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:21.380
 Rowan, I have a question.

00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:26.000
 Would it make any difference to the staff if the ones that are on the east side of the

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:31.640
 house that face the street were moved to the garage, which is not -- it's brand new, right?

00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:38.000
 It has no -- I'm not sure, but that could be a possibility.

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.000
 Trees may block it.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.720
 Again, I think -- But facing east is worse because that's

00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:44.440
 -- I mean, that's the direction all the traffic comes from.

00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:45.440
 I'm sorry.

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:46.440
 Facing due south.

00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.240
 No, I think he means move.

00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:53.400
 So there's an addition here, a garage, that's been built here, and so Roy is suggesting

00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:58.320
 could the panels be moved to this side out here?

00:28:58.320 --> 00:28:59.320
 To the new addition.

00:28:59.320 --> 00:29:00.320
 I see.

00:29:00.320 --> 00:29:02.040
 Well, I didn't know if it would matter.

00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:05.840
 That was my question, probably for -- We can ask the contractor that, who should

00:29:05.840 --> 00:29:09.200
 have more knowledge in that.

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:11.080
 May I have only one other question?

00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:16.080
 The guidelines suggested that you should have something that is not permanent or removable

00:29:16.080 --> 00:29:17.080
 or something.

00:29:17.080 --> 00:29:19.840
 What in the world would be permanent anyway on a solar thing?

00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:22.640
 I'm just kind of dumb, but I have no clue.

00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.600
 I would think it'd have to do with if you have to be destructive in order to install

00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:27.600
 them.

00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:36.040
 If the brackets are such that it's destroying part of the original building -- roof, I guess,

00:29:36.040 --> 00:29:39.900
 I could imagine that that would be a problem.

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:44.200
 And if they come back -- say they decide after 10 years they want to put on new, do they

00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.560
 have to come back -- they get destroyed by a hail storm, will they come back again?

00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:49.560
 No.

00:29:49.560 --> 00:29:50.560
 You replace like with like.

00:29:50.560 --> 00:29:54.360
 If it's been approved already and they're replacing like with like, then they do not

00:29:54.360 --> 00:29:55.360
 come back.

00:29:55.360 --> 00:30:01.080
 But is like a solar panel or is like the same solar panel look or could it be any other

00:30:01.080 --> 00:30:03.880
 horrible-looking solar panel, for example?

00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:06.680
 A year from now it gets destroyed and they're going to replace it with something that's

00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.840
 totally -- If they replace it with something different,

00:30:10.840 --> 00:30:15.760
 then it would have to come back before either through -- it would have to be approved.

00:30:15.760 --> 00:30:19.480
 It might be -- it would probably be administratively improved unless it was really a different

00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.480
 thing.

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.880
 Like extremely different.

00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:27.520
 Because it would be maintenance if it was just like a broken -- like a broken anything

00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:29.760
 else, a broken window or air-conditioning unit.

00:30:29.760 --> 00:30:31.040
 Or a roof.

00:30:31.040 --> 00:30:35.720
 If your roof gets destroyed by hail damage and you're not changing what kind of roof

00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:41.440
 you're putting on there, that's administrative approval.

00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:42.520
 All right.

00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:46.240
 Any other questions for Roman?

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:47.240
 Okay.

00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:51.320
 Here we go.

00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:55.280
 So let's go ahead and open this up for the public portion of the meeting.

00:30:55.280 --> 00:31:00.520
 Do we want to go ahead -- Dan, would you like to come up and speak to this?

00:31:00.520 --> 00:31:01.520
 Yes.

00:31:01.520 --> 00:31:02.520
 Thank you.

00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:03.520
 You know the drill.

00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:06.560
 Did you give us your address and your name?

00:31:06.560 --> 00:31:07.560
 Thank you.

00:31:07.560 --> 00:31:08.560
 Hi, Dan.

00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:09.560
 Thanks for coming.

00:31:09.560 --> 00:31:10.560
 I appreciate it.

00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:11.560
 Sure.

00:31:11.560 --> 00:31:12.560
 I'm Dan Fetty.

00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:14.200
 I live at 2708 Glenwood here in Denton.

00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.200
 Welcome, Dan.

00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.200
 Thank you.

00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.200
 Do you want me to start?

00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:19.200
 Please.

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:20.200
 Okay.

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:27.680
 When we examined the possibility of putting this -- presenting it to you, we looked at

00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.060
 all sorts of considerations.

00:31:30.060 --> 00:31:33.000
 We did consider putting it on the garage.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:38.920
 The trees on the west side of the garage are very tall, would really defeat the purpose

00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.000
 of putting solar panels on at all.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.000
 Okay.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:49.760
 There are no such trees on the east side of the house that would obstruct sunshine having

00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:54.160
 a favorable effect on the panels there.

00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:59.200
 Please notice where we did not propose to put them, and that is on the high-pitched

00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:06.200
 south-facing roof plane in between those front-facing dormers there, because we were trying to minimize

00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:14.280
 the appearance of something unusual on historic structure.

00:32:14.280 --> 00:32:15.280
 Okay.

00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:23.080
 The ones there on the front porch, while it is ideal to have them on a pitch that is equal

00:32:23.080 --> 00:32:31.020
 to the latitude, typically about 34 degrees here, it's not necessary.

00:32:31.020 --> 00:32:36.240
 There's plenty of installations out there that are producing very well on flat roofs.

00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.080
 So we have a slight pitch.

00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:46.800
 It's probably maybe a 7-degree pitch, something like that, on the south and east-facing sides

00:32:46.800 --> 00:32:50.200
 of that wraparound porch.

00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:55.720
 The ones on the west side of the house, granted, they're not going to start producing until

00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:03.880
 about, oh, noontime, and after that they will produce more than a south-facing roof array

00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.960
 would produce, because they're going to get more direct sunlight from that point.

00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.200
 So they're not going to be producing in the morning, but they're going to be producing

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.960
 more in the afternoon.

00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:19.480
 So again, we tried to position them in a way that would have a minimal effect on the appearance

00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:23.240
 of the house.

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:24.240
 Thank you, Dan.

00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.240
 Okay.

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.480
 Members of the board, do you have any questions?

00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.040
 Yes, Angie.

00:33:32.040 --> 00:33:38.920
 So my question earlier, so they're not going to be flat, a 7-degree pitch on the front?

00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:45.000
 They'll be mounted flush with the angle of the roof in every instance.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.440
 There are brackets that lift it up in the neighborhood of 3 inches, but they would be

00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:59.480
 mounted to that surface at the angle of the roof, at the angle of the roof pitch.

00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:00.480
 Okay.

00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.320
 So you're saying that roof pitch is 7 degrees?

00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:04.320
 Probably.

00:34:04.320 --> 00:34:05.320
 Somewhere in there.

00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:12.720
 I think it's like a 1 and 12 pitch, one rise vertically for every 12 feet, horizontal.

00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:14.920
 And then they would not move from that?

00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.520
 No, they're not adjustable.

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:19.800
 They don't track the sunlight.

00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:20.800
 They're fixed.

00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:21.800
 Okay.

00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:22.800
 Thank you.

00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:23.800
 Good question, Angie.

00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:24.800
 Absolutely.

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:37.000
 Dan, did you all plan these yourselves, or did you have any consultations done with the

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.080
 company?

00:34:38.080 --> 00:34:44.280
 We had our photovoltaic installer, but I've used many times, out there several times to

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:50.080
 get to look at where the shade was, to look at how much space was available.

00:34:50.080 --> 00:34:58.360
 There has to be a particular amount of area around the proposed panels for people to walk

00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:02.480
 on, like for fire code and such things as that.

00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:08.720
 And yeah, he is the one that participated in this array we're presenting to you.

00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:09.720
 Great.

00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:17.360
 So he helped you figure out what would create the maximum efficiency, and that was?

00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.360
 We're avoiding that.

00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:19.360
 Okay.

00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:23.800
 The south-facing roof plane, as you've pointed out, would provide the maximum benefit, and

00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:24.800
 we're avoiding that.

00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.800
 Okay.

00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:26.800
 For the reason I mentioned.

00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:27.800
 Right.

00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:28.800
 Okay.

00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.800
 Mary?

00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:36.440
 I guess I had a question of why not something that would be like a solar roof?

00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:41.840
 When this came up in the past in other areas, they sell solar shingles.

00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.840
 No, not yet.

00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.840
 They don't.

00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.840
 Tesla had them on the market.

00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.960
 They were trying to promote them locally, and they pulled their representative from

00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:54.680
 the state of Texas, for whatever reason.

00:35:54.680 --> 00:35:58.400
 And they're not as efficient, and they're very expensive.

00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.560
 And that's the kind of thing that would require the house almost to be disassembled to change

00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:05.560
 them out.

00:36:05.560 --> 00:36:09.000
 The panels are something that mount on ... These panels are something that mount on top of

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.000
 the roof.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.360
 And are not going to damage the structure of the house?

00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:15.360
 They will not.

00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.360
 No.

00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:17.360
 Right.

00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.000
 They're going to ... It's probably ... The shingles will last longer under those panels

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.600
 than the ones adjoining them, adjacent to them.

00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.600
 I don't know.

00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:26.600
 Right.

00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:29.960
 My roof probably doesn't have panels, but I could just see all the leaves getting jammed

00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:35.760
 into that, and damaging the roof even faster leaves are my bane.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.760
 Okay.

00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:42.600
 My other question for you is, why not, having heard some of this discussion in the past

00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:50.520
 in various places, why not consider alternatives like panels in the back, or wind turbines,

00:36:50.520 --> 00:36:53.200
 or something else that would be pretty much as efficient.

00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:55.280
 They have some really cute little turbines.

00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.920
 Panels in the back would be facing north?

00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:00.440
 No, facing south, but in the backyard facing up.

00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.280
 It's a big enough lot that you could move it down to the back.

00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.320
 Well, we're not showing you a site plan on this house.

00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.840
 There's no room in the back of this lot for such an array, and there's brimful of trees.

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.840
 Back of this lot ...

00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.040
 Facing south, there's brimful of trees?

00:37:17.040 --> 00:37:18.040
 I'm sorry.

00:37:18.040 --> 00:37:23.920
 On the north side of the house, which would be the rear of the house, there's maybe 12

00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:31.320
 feet separating the back of the house from the back property line.

00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.280
 It's heavily, heavily treed.

00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:36.600
 I can show you that.

00:37:36.600 --> 00:37:37.600
 Okay.

00:37:37.600 --> 00:37:38.600
 I have another question.

00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:39.600
 Yes.

00:37:39.600 --> 00:37:40.600
 Let's see.

00:37:40.600 --> 00:37:41.600
 Is the yard on the front?

00:37:41.600 --> 00:37:42.600
 Yeah, the way ...

00:37:42.600 --> 00:37:43.600
 Right.

00:37:43.600 --> 00:37:44.600
 The lot line.

00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:47.600
 ... the planning made them cut this lot up.

00:37:47.600 --> 00:37:48.600
 I don't know.

00:37:48.600 --> 00:37:49.600
 Thank you, Ken.

00:37:49.600 --> 00:37:50.600
 It was ...

00:37:50.600 --> 00:37:51.600
 I don't have any ...

00:37:51.600 --> 00:37:54.320
 It's a 21 up to 21.

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:55.320
 2212.

00:37:55.320 --> 00:38:02.800
 I mean, it really ... There's not much back there.

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:03.800
 No.

00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:08.640
 I've walked the property before.

00:38:08.640 --> 00:38:15.960
 There's not a big open space behind the house between the back of the house, the smaller,

00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:21.160
 very well treed lot that there is, and the ... Do you see?

00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:22.160
 Yeah.

00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:23.160
 I can see the trees now.

00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:24.160
 Mm-hmm.

00:38:24.160 --> 00:38:29.160
 So the lot line is ... The lot line is really short.

00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:31.440
 It's just like right ... Right.

00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:38.760
 And there's another house back there that ... I mean, that's beneath that tree canopy

00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:39.760
 almost.

00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:40.760
 Angie?

00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:41.760
 Yes.

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.520
 I have one other question.

00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:51.080
 Something that Roman shared with us earlier with those guidelines was that some of them

00:38:51.080 --> 00:38:56.520
 weren't approving the solar technology unless they've made other attempts for efficiency.

00:38:56.520 --> 00:39:00.680
 Would you mind sharing what you've done in the home so far for efficiency?

00:39:00.680 --> 00:39:01.680
 Sure.

00:39:01.680 --> 00:39:02.680
 Sure.

00:39:02.680 --> 00:39:05.080
 We are using a special foam.

00:39:05.080 --> 00:39:11.040
 The inside of the wall frame on houses built that long ago, it was typical to put the sheathing

00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:13.400
 on the inside surface of the studs.

00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:18.760
 We have shiplap sheathing throughout the original part of the house.

00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:28.720
 What were ... When you pulled the wall covering off, in some places it was ... In a few places

00:39:28.720 --> 00:39:29.720
 it was wallpaper.

00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:36.200
 Mostly it was sheetrock that had been laid over the top of that shiplap over time.

00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:43.120
 We've removed that, repaired, or we're in the process of repairing any damage on the

00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:49.600
 original interior sheathing to wire the house, rewire it, we're going to have to poke holes

00:39:49.600 --> 00:39:51.520
 in that sheathing all around.

00:39:51.520 --> 00:39:57.680
 We're also going to poke holes in that sheathing all around between the studs and use a specially

00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:10.360
 made foam, injectable foam insulation for applications like this, for retrofits that allow that foam

00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:17.000
 to get in the wall cavity by means of that small hole that you've cut in the sheathing.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:21.000
 We're going to cover all those holes at the end of the job with a new 3/8 inch layer of

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.000
 sheetrock.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:28.200
 Walls and sloping ceilings in the house will be insulated with a foam material that actually

00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:33.160
 has a higher R value than sprayed polyurethane foam.

00:40:33.160 --> 00:40:35.440
 That's top of the line there.

00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:41.520
 The flat ceiling area, what little flat ceiling area there is above the sloping ceilings

00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:51.080
 on the top floor is going to get R-48, R-49 of blown in insulation above it.

00:40:51.080 --> 00:40:56.080
 The new walls on the back of the house, or rather, the walls on the back of the house

00:40:56.080 --> 00:41:02.800
 were walls that occurred through many additions to the house.

00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.520
 None of those had solid sheathing on the inside.

00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:09.480
 Removing the wall covering there, it was just sheetrock.

00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.400
 We're exposing all the wall cavities in the back of the house.

00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.400
 We will spray that with sprayed polyurethane foam.

00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.920
 We'll spray the underside of the roof deck on the back side of the house with sprayed

00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.200
 polyurethane foam.

00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:30.880
 We're using a kind of a radiant barrier synthetic underlayment under the shingles for a little

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.660
 bit more reflection of sunlight coming into the house.

00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:42.520
 We're foaming under the floor everywhere, so we'll use LED lights wherever we can.

00:41:42.520 --> 00:41:45.800
 We'll use Energy Star appliances wherever we can.

00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:50.600
 We're using very high quality air conditionings.

00:41:50.600 --> 00:41:57.000
 The energy efficiency stuff, that's my wheelhouse, so we're doing all of that that I typically

00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:58.000
 do.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.800
 One of the things that I built for this customer was a home measuring up to the zero energy

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:06.920
 ready home program that the Department of Energy conducts.

00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:11.680
 Were you able to do anything with the windows for efficiency?

00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:12.680
 Yes.

00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:15.640
 We're putting new windows in all around.

00:42:15.640 --> 00:42:23.660
 The windows on the front of the house are as close to the appearance of the original

00:42:23.660 --> 00:42:25.000
 windows as we could make.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:36.320
 They're double pane windows with a very good solar heat rating and a very good U-value,

00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.600
 which is inverse of R-value.

00:42:38.600 --> 00:42:43.440
 It just means well insulated double pane windows.

00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.760
 Are they wood?

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:46.760
 Wood windows throughout, yes.

00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.720
 That was part of the -- I wasn't here for that, so that was it.

00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:51.720
 Right.

00:42:51.720 --> 00:42:52.720
 I just wondered.

00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:55.480
 Do you have plumbing fixtures in your town?

00:42:55.480 --> 00:43:00.480
 Well we're also going to do a gray water, where we're going to try to do a gray water

00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:01.480
 system on that.

00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.600
 That would be the second gray water system in the city of Ninton.

00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:06.600
 Wow.

00:43:06.600 --> 00:43:13.480
 The first one's across the street on Alamo Place.

00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.120
 We're not using water sense.

00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:21.440
 We're not trying deliberately to use water sense plumbing fixtures, but the same low flow

00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:27.720
 stuff that you have to do for Energy Star rating for the water.

00:43:27.720 --> 00:43:28.720
 Thank you so much, Dan.

00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:30.720
 Angie, does that satisfy the question?

00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:31.720
 It does.

00:43:31.720 --> 00:43:32.720
 Thank you.

00:43:32.720 --> 00:43:33.720
 Awesome.

00:43:33.720 --> 00:43:35.760
 Any other questions for Dan?

00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.600
 Dan, thank you for the work that you've done.

00:43:39.600 --> 00:43:40.600
 Good.

00:43:40.600 --> 00:43:41.600
 Thanks.

00:43:41.600 --> 00:43:43.840
 I appreciate your coming and visiting with us tonight.

00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.320
 All right.

00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.720
 While we still have the floor open for the public portion of the meeting, is there anybody

00:43:50.720 --> 00:44:01.940
 else from the public who would like to come and speak regarding this agenda item?

00:44:01.940 --> 00:44:10.240
 Come on up Ms. Patty Hayworth.

00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:11.240
 Patty you know the drill.

00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:12.240
 I know the drill.

00:44:12.240 --> 00:44:13.720
 Please give us your name and your address.

00:44:13.720 --> 00:44:16.320
 Patty Hayworth, 1506 Allen Park Road, Denton.

00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:17.840
 Thank you.

00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:23.120
 Anything that has been presented about these panels not being viewable has been contingent

00:44:23.120 --> 00:44:32.000
 on those trees being there, and the issue is not viewable with or without trees.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.840
 It's viewable, and we cannot count on those trees always being there.

00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.480
 They could be struck by lightning.

00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.880
 They could burn in a fire.

00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:43.360
 All sorts of things can happen to trees.

00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:49.760
 So I think as we look at this, we need to look at, is it, can you see it?

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.560
 And if the trees aren't there, the answer is yes.

00:44:52.560 --> 00:44:55.680
 These solar panels can be seen.

00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:59.400
 In terms of the Secretary of the Interior's standards and whether we are held to those

00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:05.880
 or not, we are a certified local government, the city is, and as such, are we not held

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.400
 to the Secretary of the Interior's standards as a CLG?

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:14.120
 Think about that.

00:45:14.120 --> 00:45:19.120
 Ground-mounted solar panels, I have not heard these mentioned.

00:45:19.120 --> 00:45:22.600
 These are something to consider.

00:45:22.600 --> 00:45:25.640
 There is lots of land on this site.

00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:28.500
 It is not all covered by trees.

00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:34.240
 There can be options here where the owner can still have his solar panels, but they

00:45:34.240 --> 00:45:39.480
 won't be up on the structure.

00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:46.440
 And we also need to think about the fact that allowing solar panels on the front of a historic

00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.520
 structure or a contributing structure or structure in a historic district sets a precedent.

00:45:51.520 --> 00:45:54.260
 It isn't just about this house.

00:45:54.260 --> 00:45:58.720
 It sets a precedent for the next person who comes and says, well, you let that house have

00:45:58.720 --> 00:46:04.080
 solar panels on the front, and they say, well, but it is really set back from the street.

00:46:04.080 --> 00:46:05.080
 It doesn't matter.

00:46:05.080 --> 00:46:07.200
 It is on the front of the house.

00:46:07.200 --> 00:46:13.720
 So you need to think about how that vote, how this decision will affect homeowners in

00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:16.800
 the future.

00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:24.320
 So for all these reasons, I ask that you deny these solar panels as proposed.

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.080
 Thank you.

00:46:29.080 --> 00:46:34.920
 Thank you, Patty.

00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.880
 If there's anybody else from the public who would like to speak regarding this agenda

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.640
 item at this time, you're welcome to come forward.

00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:45.640
 There is not.

00:46:45.640 --> 00:46:57.880
 I'm going to go ahead and close the public portion of the meeting.

00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:05.400
 There's already been some discussion regarding this agenda item if you feel like it is best

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:06.640
 to discuss now.

00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:10.960
 We can certainly do so before we have a motion on the floor.

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:11.960
 I would like to discuss.

00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:12.960
 Sure.

00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:13.960
 Angie?

00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:21.240
 So I'm going to tell you, I don't know on this, and I'm going to tell you with living

00:47:21.240 --> 00:47:28.160
 in a home in the historic district, my bills are crazy.

00:47:28.160 --> 00:47:36.720
 And we've tried to do all of the efficient things that we can, and so I can see where

00:47:36.720 --> 00:47:42.720
 people want to do this to help to maintain a historic home, to be able to live there.

00:47:42.720 --> 00:47:45.880
 I mean, financially, it takes a toll.

00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.360
 We all know that, the upkeep.

00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:51.840
 I'm torn with where it is.

00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:56.760
 I really wish they could locate it somewhere else, but I understand wanting to do that,

00:47:56.760 --> 00:48:02.720
 and I hate to be the police on it, but we can actually help people want to be in these

00:48:02.720 --> 00:48:05.720
 historic homes.

00:48:05.720 --> 00:48:12.440
 So the one thing I do know is I don't think how far back on a lot should matter.

00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:16.400
 I think if it's visible, it's visible, and I don't think we should take -- that's my

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:17.400
 thought.

00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.000
 We should not sit that president's at all.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.320
 I think that could come back to bite us.

00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:27.320
 But really, I would like to hear more discussion, because I'm at a toss-up, because I'm for

00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:28.320
 efficiencies.

00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.320
 Helen?

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:34.320
 So I have a few comments on thoughts.

00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:45.360
 First off, I'm honestly not sure that I think there's another good option for where they

00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.920
 could go.

00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:54.000
 We would want them on the south-facing roofs, and there's two of them, one on the garage,

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:55.000
 one on the house.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.040
 We wouldn't want them there, and they haven't put them there, so that's good.

00:48:59.040 --> 00:49:06.760
 Out on the site, if we were to ask them to put them on a pole on the site, then we run

00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:17.280
 into the example, a similar example to the one that was shown in the documents that Roman

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:24.680
 had, if you can bring that one up, which is in fact, I believe, more detracting than where

00:49:24.680 --> 00:49:25.680
 they --

00:49:25.680 --> 00:49:26.680
 It was denied, yeah.

00:49:26.680 --> 00:49:32.000
 Yes, it was one of those examples of what not to do, where they're actually in front

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.360
 of the house, freestanding.

00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:42.280
 So not sure that's necessarily an option I would recommend.

00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:49.920
 I would say that quite a bit of thought has been put into where they've located them.

00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:56.640
 They have not picked what would be the most -- there you go, that top right image there.

00:49:56.640 --> 00:50:05.720
 They have not picked the most beneficial from a solar gain standpoint, the locations.

00:50:05.720 --> 00:50:12.600
 They picked the locations that have put some thought into the aesthetics of the site.

00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:20.560
 I also think it's commendable to take these sustainable efforts, partly from your perspective

00:50:20.560 --> 00:50:27.160
 as a homeowner, you know, helping with the bills, but also just for the good of the planet,

00:50:27.160 --> 00:50:29.840
 and so I think that's a good thing.

00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.120
 Those are just some thoughts I have.

00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:41.360
 I'd like to also say that I do remember when the solar panel issue came up before, and

00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:47.960
 this is not our first rodeo with the solar panels, and there was a lot of neighbor -- I

00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:54.320
 remember a lot of neighborhood support for -- especially in the West Oak District for

00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:02.680
 the solar panels, and I think you also have to consider if it did go into appeals, would

00:51:02.680 --> 00:51:13.960
 the council probably deny or accept it, and we have in the past seen that the energy efficiency

00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:20.440
 of Denton and the community as a whole takes a large -- it's a big precedent.

00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:25.400
 I understand not wanting to set a precedent, and I think I even said this last time, I

00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:31.760
 wish that if the West Oak District does not mind solar panels in the right of way, they

00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:37.360
 would add it to their ordinance, but we're not there right now, and I do think that we

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.960
 have to take all of these things into consideration.

00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:48.120
 I agree that they've done a really good job being as considerate as they can be regarding

00:51:48.120 --> 00:51:54.760
 the aesthetics of the solar panels, making them as minimally distracting as possible,

00:51:54.760 --> 00:52:00.960
 and we do already have solar panels on the right of way on another house, not far from

00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:06.560
 this, in the same district.

00:52:06.560 --> 00:52:08.560
 Does anybody else have something to add?

00:52:08.560 --> 00:52:09.560
 Mary?

00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:14.800
 Well, I was on the rodeo last time around, it faced west, the one down the way.

00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:16.760
 It was a new house, brand new.

00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:23.680
 This is probably the second oldest house on Oak and probably one of the top five oldest

00:52:23.680 --> 00:52:31.120
 houses in Denton, so that weighs heavily on my mind, and I do worry about setting a precedent.

00:52:31.120 --> 00:52:33.800
 I'm concerned about cost to run a house.

00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:38.040
 I live on Oak Street, but you know what, my highest electric bill has never been more

00:52:38.040 --> 00:52:44.840
 than $400, and I run the air conditioners like mad, and I have an old house that doesn't

00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:45.840
 have all the insulation.

00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:48.800
 I just have lath, you know, an old plaster.

00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:51.200
 I think that that's not a concern for me.

00:52:51.200 --> 00:52:54.800
 Sustainability, yes, I love that term, but sustainability for who?

00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:59.600
 As a scientist, I will tell you, we're just pawning off the dirt on some poor little kid

00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:01.920
 in South America digging this up.

00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:05.840
 It does not sustain that poor child who will probably get cancer from all the horrible

00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:09.600
 chemicals he digs up, so please, that's not an excitement for me.

00:53:09.600 --> 00:53:12.600
 That it goes on to council is not an excitement for me.

00:53:12.600 --> 00:53:14.720
 I think this is a fabulous save.

00:53:14.720 --> 00:53:19.440
 I love this house, I have loved it from the day I moved into Denton.

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:24.800
 I sort of wish we could divide this up and improve part of the panels and not the rest.

00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:28.000
 The only ones that bother me are the ones on the new addition.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.680
 The flat ones don't bother, the ones that are almost flat are almost not visible on

00:53:32.680 --> 00:53:33.680
 the front.

00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:34.920
 The ones on the side don't bother me.

00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:38.280
 It's the ones on the new addition, I don't know what it's called, I don't know where

00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:39.280
 it is.

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:43.440
 They are the ones that could easily be seen, and I think that they've done such a thoughtful

00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:46.200
 job, if those went away, I would be so happy.

00:53:46.200 --> 00:53:49.360
 Because then again, if they don't go away, I'm going to put on solar panels on the front

00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.480
 of my house because I face south too.

00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:57.040
 And everybody else will do that, and I'm not convinced that all of West Oak Historic District

00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:58.040
 signed up for this.

00:53:58.040 --> 00:54:01.620
 A lot of students who live there may have signed up for it, or renters may have signed

00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:04.960
 up for it, but I'm not sure the owners signed up for it.

00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:09.600
 Just saying, this has been a bone of contention, oh, we went out and got a petition, but those

00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:12.720
 aren't necessarily owners of the property.

00:54:12.720 --> 00:54:15.900
 So I am up on a fence because I love this house.

00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.400
 I like the idea of saving personally money.

00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:22.480
 I am not excited about sustainability from the point of view of panels.

00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:27.080
 The chemicals are pretty hard to get, and the appeals are not of importance.

00:54:27.080 --> 00:54:31.760
 This is the second oldest house on the street, I'm pretty sure, apart from the house across

00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:32.760
 from my cockpit.

00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:41.480
 Roy or Kenneth, do you have any considerations that you'd like to share at this time?

00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.560
 I'm in agreement with Mary about the placement of them.

00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:48.920
 The flat ones don't bother me on the porches or anything like that.

00:54:48.920 --> 00:55:00.720
 I guess my question would be, would we not get the same energy rating or the same usage

00:55:00.720 --> 00:55:18.440
 of energy if we got rid of those four or five panels that would face the front?

00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:19.440
 I mean, that's something to consider.

00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.440
 Roy?

00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:27.880
 Yeah, my only concern, the panels that are on the east wing facing south, if they could

00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:36.240
 somehow, the farthest to the right could somehow go on the upper part facing west, I think

00:55:36.240 --> 00:55:42.720
 you wouldn't see any of these solar panels, very little of it.

00:55:42.720 --> 00:55:49.120
 That's my only comment, is I might have looked at the feasibility of that.

00:55:49.120 --> 00:55:50.120
 That's it.

00:55:50.120 --> 00:55:51.120
 Okay.

00:55:51.120 --> 00:55:58.380
 Is there any more discussion that you would like to have?

00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:03.440
 Chair, can I make a comment?

00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:04.440
 Yes.

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:05.440
 Roman.

00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:09.240
 I just, with all due respect, I think with respect to the standards, Patty brought up

00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:16.080
 the, as a certified local government, the city of Denton must apply the standards.

00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:20.800
 As far as I understand it, as a certified local government, there is a lot that's required

00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:26.600
 and namely it's that we have a preservation ordinance, that we have a preservation officer

00:56:26.600 --> 00:56:30.680
 and there's a pretty long, there's a long list of requirements, but that we specifically

00:56:30.680 --> 00:56:36.000
 apply the standards, as far as I know, that is not a requirement.

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:43.600
 But even if we did, I think going back to this first slide and just, does the installation

00:56:43.600 --> 00:56:49.840
 negatively impact the character of the property or I guess it's somewhere in the district

00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:55.480
 and I just don't see how, if you're looking at it, the character of this specific building

00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:01.920
 and the way that you see it and its architectural integrity and then the district as a whole.

00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:06.320
 That's why I recommended the approval.

00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:14.680
 But going back to Commissioner Anderson, Mary's concern, if I'm not mistaken, the petition

00:57:14.680 --> 00:57:18.440
 that was signed was everyone in the district and I don't think those were students.

00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:24.760
 I know because the fellow who did that is an attorney and he's very diligent and I remember

00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:28.680
 he offered to show that to me, so I'm pretty sure that he worked very hard.

00:57:28.680 --> 00:57:29.680
 He's an attorney.

00:57:29.680 --> 00:57:30.680
 It took a long time.

00:57:30.680 --> 00:57:36.160
 He spent a lot of time to go and get those so that when he went to city council, he had

00:57:36.160 --> 00:57:37.160
 the whole district.

00:57:37.160 --> 00:57:42.480
 So when you create a district, there's a lot of those people right in that neighborhood.

00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:46.320
 So those two points I wanted to make, well, I'll do respect.

00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.320
 Thank you.

00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:52.520
 When I was at that meeting, he did not agree that they were all owners.

00:57:52.520 --> 00:57:59.120
 I remember asking that question very specifically.

00:57:59.120 --> 00:58:02.280
 Okay.

00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:03.720
 There's no more discuss.

00:58:03.720 --> 00:58:17.920
 I think we're ready to hear a motion.

00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:18.920
 Chair, if I can offer some suggestions.

00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:19.920
 Absolutely.

00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:24.680
 The options that are offered to the commission is that there is an approval subject to conditions.

00:58:24.680 --> 00:58:34.120
 So if the motion includes a condition that can be provided as well.

00:58:34.120 --> 00:58:35.120
 Okay.

00:58:35.120 --> 00:58:40.680
 If I can add on to that, I know that there were some questions that were asked about

00:58:40.680 --> 00:58:47.440
 would the panels be flat and you got the answer that they would match the roof pitch.

00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:52.720
 You might want to incorporate that into your requirement if that's what you intend because

00:58:52.720 --> 00:58:55.960
 it's not specific from the application itself.

00:58:55.960 --> 00:58:56.960
 Okay.

00:58:56.960 --> 00:59:04.080
 I think it's a complicated motion.

00:59:04.080 --> 00:59:08.000
 I don't know.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:13.840
 I move we approve COA 18-0001 as offered.

00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:16.840
 Okay.

00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:19.840
 Does Roy have a second?

00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:22.440
 I second it.

00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.880
 Thank you, Kenneth, for your second.

00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:26.840
 All right.

00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:28.960
 We have a motion on the table.

00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:33.960
 If you would like to discuss this any further, this is an opportunity.

00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:38.240
 Any questions regarding how the motion is made?

00:59:38.240 --> 00:59:39.920
 Okay.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:45.480
 If not, we can go ahead and take a vote.

00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:46.920
 Can I ask a question at this point?

00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:47.920
 Absolutely, Roy.

00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:48.920
 Okay.

00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:51.760
 So where does this if we vote and it's approved?

00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:53.120
 That's pretty obvious where it goes.

00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:58.920
 If we vote and it's denied, then they start the process over again?

00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:04.640
 Or is this a point where we talk about, okay, well, how do you take this and approve subject

01:00:04.640 --> 01:00:10.000
 to conditions because I could friendly change my motion to include that, I believe.

01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:19.400
 You can deny with condition -- so you can deny with approval to resubmit within a smaller

01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:22.280
 amount of time.

01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:26.720
 You can also approve with conditions.

01:00:26.720 --> 01:00:35.320
 So if you say with the condition that the panels match the pitch of the roof and don't

01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:41.640
 exceed so many inches off of the roof line, you can do that.

01:00:41.640 --> 01:00:45.400
 Or that aren't on the east side wing.

01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:46.960
 You could say that as well.

01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:52.360
 However, I would be cautious to do that if the solar studies show that they're trying

01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:57.440
 to maximize potential by not putting them on the south side, which would be where they

01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:59.960
 can maximize the potential of the solar panels.

01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:06.000
 I do believe he said that the west side was actually better after 12 noon.

01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:08.040
 That's what he said.

01:01:08.040 --> 01:01:12.240
 Afternoon he got more sunlight than he got from the south-facing windows.

01:01:12.240 --> 01:01:13.240
 Chair?

01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:14.240
 Yes, Ron.

01:01:14.240 --> 01:01:21.400
 Chair, if you can just clarify for me, if the motion that's on the table does not get

01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:26.560
 the votes, that does not deny the application or does it?

01:01:26.560 --> 01:01:34.080
 If it does not get the votes, then it is either open for another motion or denies it.

01:01:34.080 --> 01:01:37.000
 I assume you were asked a question of me rather than the chair.

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:38.000
 Yes, chair.

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:39.000
 If the --

01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.000
 Where's Jerry?

01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:41.000
 I'm sorry.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:42.000
 You said Jerry.

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:43.000
 I thought you said chair.

01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:44.000
 Me too.

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:49.320
 I was like, I think that's more of a Jerry question.

01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:55.280
 If that motion does not pass, then you turn the motion around and ask it the other way

01:01:55.280 --> 01:02:02.640
 around or make a different motion or what have you, but you need to ask for a motion

01:02:02.640 --> 01:02:05.640
 that carries through.

01:02:05.640 --> 01:02:10.160
 So we can vote on this one now.

01:02:10.160 --> 01:02:11.160
 All right.

01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:20.160
 Right now we have a motion made by Roy, seconded by Kenneth to approve the COA as is.

01:02:20.160 --> 01:02:22.280
 All those in favor, please say aye.

01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:23.280
 Aye.

01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:26.320
 That is Roy, Kenneth.

01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:36.340
 Please show with a raise of hands, Roy, Kenneth, Helen, Alyssa, for approval.

01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:38.440
 All those opposed, please say nay.

01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:39.440
 Nay.

01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:44.760
 And that is Mary and Angie to deny.

01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:47.440
 The ayes have it.

01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:49.800
 Thank you.

01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:51.920
 Let's go.

01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:52.920
 Mr. Fetti.

01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.480
 Dan, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:56.480
 Thank you.

01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:57.480
 Sorry.

01:02:57.480 --> 01:02:58.480
 D also?

01:02:58.480 --> 01:02:59.480
 No, we did not.

01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:00.480
 That was separate.

01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:01.480
 No.

01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:02.480
 D is a separate motion.

01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:08.600
 But, I mean, Mr. Fetti, I didn't know if he was the contractor or --

01:03:08.600 --> 01:03:10.920
 No, he's not the contractor for that.

01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:19.560
 Jerry, just for point of clarification, Jerry, this is a commission of nine.

01:03:19.560 --> 01:03:22.160
 Does four carry?

01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:23.160
 That's my question.

01:03:23.160 --> 01:03:25.120
 What is a quorum for this vote?

01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:26.120
 Five.

01:03:26.120 --> 01:03:27.120
 I did not bring my --

01:03:27.120 --> 01:03:31.640
 I'm not sure that we made the quorum for the vote, by the way, but that's fine.

01:03:31.640 --> 01:03:33.600
 I think you probably did.

01:03:33.600 --> 01:03:35.200
 I will have to refer back to my code.

01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:37.200
 Can we take a five-minute recess?

01:03:37.200 --> 01:03:38.200
 We absolutely can.

01:03:38.200 --> 01:03:39.200
 Thank you.

01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:40.200
 Thank you.

01:03:40.200 --> 01:03:41.200
 Thank you.

01:03:41.200 --> 01:03:42.200
 Somebody better find out.

01:03:42.200 --> 01:03:43.200
 Okay.

01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:48.960
 Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to call this meeting back to order.

01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:49.960
 Jerry is back.

01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:50.960
 Thank you, Mr. Drake.

01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:51.960
 He's done.

01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:53.960
 We are ready to hear your answer.

01:03:53.960 --> 01:03:54.960
 All right.

01:03:54.960 --> 01:04:00.360
 Fortunately, the question is very clearly and definitively answered in the Denson Development

01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:05.200
 Code, Section 35.4.3.1, Operational Procedures.

01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:09.480
 It says, "The Historic Landmark Commission shall meet its office necessary to dispose

01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:13.960
 of the business.

01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:19.280
 Five members present shall constitute a quorum for transaction of business, and all issues

01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:25.800
 shall be decided by a majority of those members present and voting, except that in those instances

01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:32.000
 where only a quorum of five is present at a meeting, all issues shall be decided by

01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.360
 at least four affirmative votes."

01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:36.760
 That's the relevant part.

01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:38.680
 So we got it.

01:04:38.680 --> 01:04:40.040
 The motion passes.

01:04:40.040 --> 01:04:41.040
 Yes.

01:04:41.040 --> 01:04:42.040
 Thank you so much.

01:04:42.040 --> 01:04:44.200
 Dan, thank you so much for running back.

01:04:44.200 --> 01:04:46.520
 We appreciate your resiliency.

01:04:46.520 --> 01:04:49.560
 It is freezing.

01:04:49.560 --> 01:04:51.200
 All right.

01:04:51.200 --> 01:04:59.000
 So sticking with the theme of the night, solar panels, let's move on to agenda item 2D, to

01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:03.360
 hold a public meeting and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness in accordance

01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:11.960
 with the Section 35.7.6.8.8 to install solar panels on the garage located at 723 West Oak

01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:12.960
 Street.

01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:17.240
 The address is located on the south side of West Oak between Denton Street and Mounts

01:05:17.240 --> 01:05:18.240
 Avenue.

01:05:18.240 --> 01:05:20.240
 All right.

01:05:20.240 --> 01:05:23.400
 And does this have an additional presentation, Roman?

01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.680
 No, it doesn't.

01:05:24.680 --> 01:05:25.680
 Okay.

01:05:25.680 --> 01:05:27.600
 Can you do me a favor?

01:05:27.600 --> 01:05:34.560
 Can you pull up the pictures specific -- yep, that's what I wanted to see and the one that

01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:40.360
 I believe is right before it as you're driving up, okay?

01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:43.840
 So I start out with a couple of straight shots of the building here.

01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:44.840
 Wonderful.

01:05:44.840 --> 01:06:01.160
 And, you know, really, there's a -- if you make a pie shape between -- if you were the

01:06:01.160 --> 01:06:02.160
 panel and you're looking at it, when is the public going to see you?

01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:03.160
 You know, somewhere over here to somewhere over here, you're going to see -- there's

01:06:03.160 --> 01:06:05.080
 like a 30-foot or maybe it's 40-foot wide window where you would see.

01:06:05.080 --> 01:06:06.800
 So now you're coming up the street.

01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:10.680
 You wouldn't see those panels here or there.

01:06:10.680 --> 01:06:13.080
 You probably still wouldn't see the panel.

01:06:13.080 --> 01:06:16.360
 You might start to see the edge of the panel.

01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:17.360
 The profile?

01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:26.600
 You would see the little edge there, the black, dark edge, and then -- well, and you would

01:06:26.600 --> 01:06:28.360
 again see it some more as you went across.

01:06:28.360 --> 01:06:31.840
 So that's what they're asking for there.

01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:32.840
 Thank you so much, Roman.

01:06:32.840 --> 01:06:34.240
 On an accessory, you know, dwelling.

01:06:34.240 --> 01:06:40.760
 It's not necessarily the main dwelling and that's why I'd again recommend -- to me, when

01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:44.800
 I think about the standards, you know, there's all those famous sayings, you know something

01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:49.960
 when you see it, whatever those things are, and -- but, you know, you know something when

01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:55.680
 you see it if it was, you know, really affecting this overall experience of this structure.

01:06:55.680 --> 01:06:56.680
 Okay.

01:06:56.680 --> 01:06:58.680
 Can I ask you a question?

01:06:58.680 --> 01:06:59.680
 Roy, absolutely.

01:06:59.680 --> 01:07:00.680
 Yes, sorry.

01:07:00.680 --> 01:07:01.680
 Thank you.

01:07:01.680 --> 01:07:06.160
 The picture that included with our material shows that the panels are on the east-facing

01:07:06.160 --> 01:07:07.640
 roof line of the garage.

01:07:07.640 --> 01:07:09.200
 Oh, did I get -- oh, my goodness.

01:07:09.200 --> 01:07:11.280
 Did you get your directions wrong?

01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:14.280
 It sure is on the east side.

01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:17.000
 Let me redo that PowerPoint for you real quick.

01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:18.000
 Let's step back.

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.040
 Well, there -- it's not that much difference.

01:07:20.040 --> 01:07:21.280
 There it is, except it is --

01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:22.280
 You see a lot more on there.

01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:23.280
 You see a lot more.

01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:24.280
 Yeah, you see a lot more.

01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:25.280
 You drive up.

01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.280
 There.

01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:27.280
 There's your window.

01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:28.280
 So it is different.

01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:32.680
 As long as West Oak remains one way westbound, I'm sorry, I'm just holding this there.

01:07:32.680 --> 01:07:40.200
 I would just like to say, at the moment that the -- hold on.

01:07:40.200 --> 01:07:45.360
 Yeah, because there's the street up here.

01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:46.360
 There's the house.

01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:47.360
 Yeah, because there's the house.

01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:48.360
 So it's on the other --

01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:58.360
 Maybe they're going to recharge the battery on the Airstream.

01:07:58.360 --> 01:07:59.920
 Which brings up a question.

01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.400
 Why are they on that side?

01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:10.080
 Well, it doesn't say in the -- oh, I'm looking at the wrong one.

01:08:10.080 --> 01:08:16.560
 Well, and I, unfortunately, don't have the contractor here or the owner here for that.

01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:25.240
 I did make them aware of the meeting as a partial model.

01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:31.640
 There is a site plan in the back up, sheet PV-2.

01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:34.840
 That's what they're looking at.

01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:35.840
 Yeah.

01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:36.840
 And then the --

01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:37.840
 It shows the proposal.

01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:38.840
 Uh-huh.

01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:39.840
 It sure is.

01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.840
 Okay.

01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:46.040
 I will say that wouldn't change -- you know, believe it or not, for me, that just wouldn't

01:08:46.040 --> 01:08:47.040
 change my recommendation.

01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:51.800
 Y'all have to, of course, make your decision, but I still wouldn't feel it would be worry

01:08:51.800 --> 01:08:52.800
 of a --

01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:57.320
 I mean, it doesn't -- oh, I see, right, it does face east.

01:08:57.320 --> 01:08:58.320
 Uh-huh.

01:08:58.320 --> 01:09:03.320
 Can you go to the overall site -- the Google or Shutter, probably?

01:09:03.320 --> 01:09:04.320
 Yeah, sure.

01:09:04.320 --> 01:09:05.320
 Let's see.

01:09:05.320 --> 01:09:06.320
 We'll go down over here.

01:09:06.320 --> 01:09:07.320
 723.

01:09:07.320 --> 01:09:22.360
 Yes, that is on the east, but with a little panel on the west is what it looks like.

01:09:22.360 --> 01:09:32.880
 I mean, if you're looking at the site plan, yes.

01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:33.880
 Yeah, I am.

01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:35.380
 I just can't believe they put it there.

01:09:35.380 --> 01:09:37.720
 I mean, if that's what its maximum efficiency --

01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:43.400
 But then I'm less than -- I'm much less excited if it faces east, because you can see it coming

01:09:43.400 --> 01:09:44.400
 down oak, if that's true.

01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:45.400
 Show me your picture, Ron.

01:09:45.400 --> 01:09:46.400
 It's not.

01:09:46.400 --> 01:09:47.400
 Uh-huh.

01:09:47.400 --> 01:09:48.400
 Yeah.

01:09:48.400 --> 01:09:49.400
 West is fine.

01:09:49.400 --> 01:09:50.400
 I have no problem facing west.

01:09:50.400 --> 01:09:51.400
 I'd be excited.

01:09:51.400 --> 01:09:58.360
 You know, the -- in that context, though, and just thinking about will -- I don't often

01:09:58.360 --> 01:10:00.720
 think this way, but will West Oak always be one way?

01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:06.600
 I mean, to me, it's kind of half a dozen one-way, six the other in 50 years or whatever.

01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:14.480
 Didn't they move to one way in the 1960s, maybe?

01:10:14.480 --> 01:10:23.960
 When did they move to one-way streets, because they were not always?

01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:38.540
 They talk about periodically about going back to the two-way, but I just keep -- I mean,

01:10:38.540 --> 01:10:39.540
 maybe slow down with traffic.

01:10:39.540 --> 01:10:40.540
 Oh, by the way, if you're driving down oak, our friends over here would chip out, there's

01:10:40.540 --> 01:10:41.540
 some media every so often to get you going 50.

01:10:41.540 --> 01:10:42.540
 Oh.

01:10:42.540 --> 01:10:43.540
 Yeah.

01:10:43.540 --> 01:10:48.400
 If you're thinking of denying it, then maybe we could table it until I give them an opportunity

01:10:48.400 --> 01:10:53.700
 to respond, just letting you know that that could happen, too.

01:10:53.700 --> 01:11:03.960
 I still really just -- I don't have a problem with it.

01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:11.400
 Driving up, it's not what you're looking at.

01:11:11.400 --> 01:11:13.120
 Would it be less visible?

01:11:13.120 --> 01:11:16.700
 Perhaps if you had it towards the rear.

01:11:16.700 --> 01:11:24.480
 There's 12 bays of panels here if you omitted the six closest to the street and had six

01:11:24.480 --> 01:11:27.480
 on either side of the roof toward the rear.

01:11:27.480 --> 01:11:32.360
 If I'm looking at this picture, I don't know that removing six at the front is going to

01:11:32.360 --> 01:11:36.360
 make that big of a difference if you're standing at this specific angle.

01:11:36.360 --> 01:11:43.360
 However, that being said, as someone who -- and I've said it before, I'll say it again.

01:11:43.360 --> 01:11:45.160
 I love walking in this neighborhood.

01:11:45.160 --> 01:11:48.360
 I walk and run in this neighborhood all the time.

01:11:48.360 --> 01:11:57.240
 I'm never looking at auxiliary structures, very rarely.

01:11:57.240 --> 01:12:02.960
 You know, even walking by, your focus is on the main portion of the house and the houses

01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:06.200
 around it.

01:12:06.200 --> 01:12:13.840
 And, again, does it change the historical character of the home having a small panel

01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:16.840
 present?

01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:20.880
 A panel on the garage.

01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:27.560
 No, this one is just all on the garage.

01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:29.560
 That's what I'm saying.

01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:30.560
 It's not on the main house.

01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:31.560
 It's not on the part closest to the street.

01:12:31.560 --> 01:12:39.480
 I mean, I'm glad I don't look across the street, but that's somebody else to look at.

01:12:39.480 --> 01:12:45.760
 I don't think I'd like to look at it every day.

01:12:45.760 --> 01:13:06.080
 But if you face it west, I don't know how you'd ever see it.

01:13:06.080 --> 01:13:13.040
 My question is -- my preference would be to continue the item because my question for

01:13:13.040 --> 01:13:17.360
 the builder is, why isn't it on the west?

01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:20.800
 Because if it's as good for him as the east --

01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:28.040
 I doubt that they would put it on the east side in the proposal if it could have been

01:13:28.040 --> 01:13:31.920
 on the west side because it is less visible by the west.

01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:33.720
 Could be a tree issue here.

01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:34.720
 These are real tall.

01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:35.720
 I'm not sure of that lot.

01:13:35.720 --> 01:13:36.720
 Could be it.

01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:44.560
 It would be interesting to see if he could maximize it, like Jerry was saying, put half

01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:48.880
 on each side so you get the full orbit.

01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:49.880
 But we don't have --

01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:57.480
 If we approve it on just to put the solar panels on the garage and we don't specify

01:13:57.480 --> 01:14:00.560
 a side, does that not open it up for it to allow him?

01:14:00.560 --> 01:14:04.840
 What I'm saying is, does it matter to us which side it's really on?

01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:05.840
 That's a good question.

01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:10.840
 Can we just say on the garage?

01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:21.800
 I mean, the COA, as I read it, says to install solar panels on the garage.

01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:22.800
 That's what it says.

01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:30.280
 Now, that also comes with the site plan, but if you want to approve it on the garage and

01:14:30.280 --> 01:14:38.400
 give them room to put it on either the east or the west with Roman's approval or the HBO's

01:14:38.400 --> 01:14:41.320
 administrative approval, we can do that.

01:14:41.320 --> 01:14:43.120
 I don't see why it would matter.

01:14:43.120 --> 01:14:46.040
 We just approve one facing the street so who cares?

01:14:46.040 --> 01:14:48.480
 Are we ready for a motion?

01:14:48.480 --> 01:14:53.240
 The only thing is, as far as having the site plan there, I think you would have to make

01:14:53.240 --> 01:15:03.040
 it clear that the motion is disregarding the site plan in the application and just saying

01:15:03.040 --> 01:15:08.220
 that the approval is on the garage, if that's what your intention is.

01:15:08.220 --> 01:15:10.280
 On either the east or the west.

01:15:10.280 --> 01:15:12.880
 So you could clarify that in a motion.

01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:14.480
 Does anybody else have any discussion?

01:15:14.480 --> 01:15:15.960
 I'm ready to make a motion.

01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:16.960
 Okay.

01:15:16.960 --> 01:15:17.960
 All right.

01:15:17.960 --> 01:15:29.880
 We approve item COA18-0009 to install solar panels on the garage located at 723 West Oak

01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:39.060
 Street and that we discard the site plan and that it could go by staff, whether it's on

01:15:39.060 --> 01:15:42.440
 the east or west side.

01:15:42.440 --> 01:15:43.440
 Disregard the site plan.

01:15:43.440 --> 01:15:49.440
 Where it's depicted on the roof, there are some technical standards on the site plan

01:15:49.440 --> 01:15:51.440
 that you might want to incorporate.

01:15:51.440 --> 01:15:52.440
 Right.

01:15:52.440 --> 01:15:53.440
 On which side of the roof.

01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:57.960
 Disregard the site plan on which side of the roof it is to be installed, but to still

01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:00.400
 go by the specifications.

01:16:00.400 --> 01:16:01.560
 Okay.

01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:03.520
 Thank you so much for your motion, Angie.

01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:04.520
 Does she have a second?

01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:05.960
 I second the motion.

01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:09.360
 Thank you, Helen, for your second.

01:16:09.360 --> 01:16:13.160
 Is there any other discussion to be had now that we have a motion on the floor?

01:16:13.160 --> 01:16:17.240
 If we're ready to take a vote, I'm ready to call for one.

01:16:17.240 --> 01:16:19.080
 All those in favor, please say aye.

01:16:19.080 --> 01:16:20.080
 Aye.

01:16:20.080 --> 01:16:22.400
 Please show me with a raise of your hands.

01:16:22.400 --> 01:16:23.400
 Thank you.

01:16:23.400 --> 01:16:30.040
 Mary, Angie, Kenneth, Helen, and Alyssa all approve.

01:16:30.040 --> 01:16:32.960
 All those opposed, please say nay.

01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:33.960
 Nay.

01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:34.960
 Roy?

01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:35.960
 Denied.

01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:40.640
 That is a five-to-one vote.

01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:42.680
 The ayes have it.

01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:45.760
 Thank you all for your votes.

01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:47.400
 All right.

01:16:47.400 --> 01:16:52.240
 Roy, I know that you have another meeting that it is very important for you to attend.

01:16:52.240 --> 01:16:58.600
 If you need to do so now and catch up on any of the roles and responsibilities with Roman

01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:01.360
 at a later date, you are welcome to go.

01:17:01.360 --> 01:17:04.360
 Thank you so much.

01:17:04.360 --> 01:17:17.400
 All right, Ron, the next agenda item is all you, sir, discuss the roles and responsibilities

01:17:17.400 --> 01:17:18.720
 of the Historic Landmark Commission.

01:17:18.720 --> 01:17:21.160
 I'm going to defer that to Roman.

01:17:21.160 --> 01:17:27.000
 Maybe we should have started with this.

01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:28.000
 Okay.

01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:29.000
 Yeah, maybe.

01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:30.000
 All right.

01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:33.600
 Let me see if I can get through it.

01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:34.880
 That's not the presentation, Roman.

01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:38.360
 Oh, we're doing the -- We're not on DDC, Roman.

01:17:38.360 --> 01:17:39.360
 Come on.

01:17:39.360 --> 01:17:40.360
 Where are we, sir?

01:17:40.360 --> 01:17:41.360
 There we go.

01:17:41.360 --> 01:17:42.360
 We're on the HLC presentation.

01:17:42.360 --> 01:17:43.360
 Oh, yes.

01:17:43.360 --> 01:17:44.360
 Responsibilities of the HLC.

01:17:44.360 --> 01:17:45.360
 Thank you, Ron.

01:17:45.360 --> 01:17:46.360
 You did tell me.

01:17:46.360 --> 01:17:47.360
 We're ready for that.

01:17:47.360 --> 01:17:48.360
 Yeah.

01:17:48.360 --> 01:17:50.840
 And I'm -- we're going to have to start ordering dinner around here, Ron.

01:17:50.840 --> 01:17:51.840
 We're keeping people late.

01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:52.840
 I don't know.

01:17:52.840 --> 01:17:53.840
 We did that before.

01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:57.920
 I don't remember when we first met.

01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:01.400
 We had to because we had, like, four-hour-long meetings.

01:18:01.400 --> 01:18:02.640
 Since I've been here, we had them pretty short.

01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:03.960
 Well, I'll try to speak quickly.

01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:04.960
 Issues not on the agenda.

01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:05.960
 You've been here.

01:18:05.960 --> 01:18:06.960
 You've been here.

01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:07.960
 Right.

01:18:07.960 --> 01:18:08.960
 Thank you.

01:18:08.960 --> 01:18:09.960
 I'm sorry.

01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:11.480
 We have two new members and three members who are more familiar.

01:18:11.480 --> 01:18:13.660
 So this is going to look familiar to most of you.

01:18:13.660 --> 01:18:15.680
 So I just stripped this down to the basics.

01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:23.840
 Tonight we did supply a Manuel's binder of the historic landmark commission.

01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:26.760
 That's actually supposed to be a manual.

01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:31.000
 And I still don't know if I would have spelled it right, even if I had noticed it, but didn't

01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:32.040
 know it looked weird.

01:18:32.040 --> 01:18:33.040
 So we have that.

01:18:33.040 --> 01:18:37.680
 And in there, the current code responsibilities in the landmark commission are in there.

01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:42.600
 But if you really synthesize it down, nine members, two years staggered, meets once a

01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:48.200
 month or as necessary, meetings may be called by the chair or by a simple majority of the

01:18:48.200 --> 01:18:55.360
 landmark commission to address something, the HLC makes recommendations on certificates

01:18:55.360 --> 01:19:01.360
 of appropriateness that are not ordinary maintenance or minor exterior alterations.

01:19:01.360 --> 01:19:05.680
 The in general, the code has some fancy language that says the historic landmark commission

01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:10.640
 shall thoroughly familiarize itself with building structures, sites, districts, areas, and lands

01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:15.160
 within the city, which may be eligible for designation as historic landmarks.

01:19:15.160 --> 01:19:18.920
 I synthesize that down to look out for the historic resources in Denton.

01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.600
 That's the bottom line.

01:19:20.600 --> 01:19:26.840
 Establish criteria for determination of local landmarks and for approving C of A's.

01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:32.400
 And then there's these reasons that these are the codified reasons to deny a certificate

01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:35.000
 of appropriateness.

01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.720
 And they're still similar to the standards.

01:19:37.720 --> 01:19:42.960
 The exterior architectural features of the landmark should not be negatively affected,

01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:47.300
 the district as a whole, and the future preservation of that landmark.

01:19:47.300 --> 01:19:52.280
 The only place that we reference this is just coincidental to our conversation tonight,

01:19:52.280 --> 01:19:58.760
 the Secretary of Interior's standards were codified as part of an appendix to the creation

01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:01.480
 of the Bell Avenue Conservation District.

01:20:01.480 --> 01:20:07.040
 So the preservation ordinance in the city of Denton's have been moving closer and closer

01:20:07.040 --> 01:20:10.360
 to the national standard.

01:20:10.360 --> 01:20:15.000
 We didn't ever mention them, and then we mentioned them in the last district that was created.

01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.800
 And when the code that Ron is going to talk about later is adopted, there we actually

01:20:19.800 --> 01:20:25.440
 specify that the standards should be a guiding principle of decisions.

01:20:25.440 --> 01:20:28.240
 So there's sort of been this evolution.

01:20:28.240 --> 01:20:34.680
 Finally, there's an article here, I don't need to bring it up, and there's a city lab

01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:41.840
 article I found on solar panels, and it talks about what you experienced here in these discussions.

01:20:41.840 --> 01:20:46.720
 That it's not an easy question to answer, but I like the quote in that article, and

01:20:46.720 --> 01:20:52.720
 it was that the author had written about both preservationists and environmentalists, and

01:20:52.720 --> 01:20:58.920
 that they should be careful in asserting their rights and remedies, lest the public lose

01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:01.400
 confidence in the cause.

01:21:01.400 --> 01:21:05.620
 And that's important as we try to protect our national registered district, as we try

01:21:05.620 --> 01:21:09.520
 to create new districts, as we create local landmarks.

01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:13.480
 We have to keep that big picture is what I always advocate for.

01:21:13.480 --> 01:21:20.240
 But the booklet has several sections in there, the all of historic resource survey properties

01:21:20.240 --> 01:21:28.000
 are listed, the historic preservation ordinance as written is there, and so you can always

01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:29.400
 go to that.

01:21:29.400 --> 01:21:36.920
 And then those will have to bring you an updated one soon when you get to what Ron is going

01:21:36.920 --> 01:21:37.920
 to talk to you about.

01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:40.480
 Any questions about that?

01:21:40.480 --> 01:21:43.480
 Okay, that's all I have on that.

01:21:43.480 --> 01:21:47.200
 Thank you, Roman.

01:21:47.200 --> 01:21:49.160
 Any questions?

01:21:49.160 --> 01:21:50.640
 Great.

01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:57.320
 We can move on.

01:21:57.320 --> 01:22:09.360
 Madam Chair, we're going to go out of order.

01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:14.120
 I actually request that the next item, which is the training video, that we postpone that

01:22:14.120 --> 01:22:15.120
 to the next meeting.

01:22:15.120 --> 01:22:16.120
 Absolutely.

01:22:16.120 --> 01:22:19.720
 We are working on updating that and want to make sure that we present the most updated

01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:24.000
 version of that video.

01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:27.240
 Since there are some new members not present, it would probably be best that we wait until

01:22:27.240 --> 01:22:28.240
 they are present.

01:22:28.240 --> 01:22:29.240
 I agree.

01:22:29.240 --> 01:22:33.480
 We should postpone that and move it to the next.

01:22:33.480 --> 01:22:39.840
 So the next item on the agenda is an update to the DDC update status.

01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:44.240
 I wanted to make sure that the HLC was given an opportunity to at least know what's going

01:22:44.240 --> 01:22:45.240
 on with the DDC update.

01:22:45.240 --> 01:22:51.240
 It's a big effort that affects obviously this commission as well as other commissions that

01:22:51.240 --> 01:22:56.320
 are working as far as development is concerned in the city.

01:22:56.320 --> 01:23:01.840
 Just real quick, the agenda that I will cover briefly is where we are, what the purpose

01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:07.200
 is of where we are, some of the policy decisions that a committee made up of three council

01:23:07.200 --> 01:23:11.960
 members and three planning zoning commissioners have been considering as part of this DDC

01:23:11.960 --> 01:23:12.960
 update.

01:23:12.960 --> 01:23:18.520
 A real quick summary of the subchapters that are moving forward as well as how we've been

01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:23.560
 reaching out to the community in regards to the draft zoning map and then what our next

01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:28.880
 steps are in regards to the next draft as well as when we are scheduled to take it to

01:23:28.880 --> 01:23:33.440
 the planning zoning commission and city council.

01:23:33.440 --> 01:23:40.360
 The purpose is just to meet the vision of the DemPlan 2030, really is to develop and

01:23:40.360 --> 01:23:44.640
 look into making sure we have responsible and quality development throughout the city.

01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:50.040
 We've got a list of common themes but really just to be more customer friendly and also

01:23:50.040 --> 01:23:53.680
 protect our neighborhoods as well.

01:23:53.680 --> 01:23:57.160
 So we started this effort back in June of 2017.

01:23:57.160 --> 01:23:59.880
 We've held numerous public open houses.

01:23:59.880 --> 01:24:03.720
 We again have been meeting with the development code review community.

01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:11.060
 This is the DCRC held public open houses soon after that as well when we first published

01:24:11.060 --> 01:24:16.400
 our public draft and then since then we've been meeting with a number of stakeholders

01:24:16.400 --> 01:24:22.240
 and other meetings as well with the neighborhoods and attending a lot of the community market

01:24:22.240 --> 01:24:25.760
 as well to get the word out.

01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:30.200
 So the committee has been meeting on a various number of topics.

01:24:30.200 --> 01:24:36.360
 This is just a summary of the high level ones that they've considered, looking at allowed

01:24:36.360 --> 01:24:43.840
 lane uses, basically very development oriented with regards to what proposed uses are permitted,

01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:48.080
 how big and what their dimensional standards are.

01:24:48.080 --> 01:24:54.600
 We also have been discussing ESA, environmental sensitive areas, the development review process

01:24:54.600 --> 01:25:02.840
 and of course the zoning map and zoning districts which is a big part of the development code.

01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:10.840
 The subchapters that we are proposing to have with the new draft are of the following.

01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:18.920
 We currently have 24 subchapters in the current development code and you can see we're narrowing

01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:23.800
 that down to eight which is quite an effort.

01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:28.360
 Most of that is going to go into, most of the current subchapters is going to go to

01:25:28.360 --> 01:25:32.840
 subchapter six which is the development standards, basically taking all the different subchapters

01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:36.840
 and putting them into that proposed subchapter.

01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:42.820
 So total 24 now and we're going to bring it down to eight.

01:25:42.820 --> 01:25:46.840
 Subchapter one is really just your general provisions that contains your purpose, your

01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:52.840
 applicability, the enforcement and just really how we're going to transition from one code

01:25:52.840 --> 01:25:53.840
 to the other.

01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:56.160
 So again general provisions.

01:25:56.160 --> 01:25:59.060
 Chapter two is your administrative and procedures.

01:25:59.060 --> 01:26:04.360
 This big change here is there's going to be a table with all the types of application

01:26:04.360 --> 01:26:10.920
 which includes COAs and this will have a better presentation as far as how things proceed

01:26:10.920 --> 01:26:13.300
 through the development review process.

01:26:13.300 --> 01:26:16.960
 So this is an important chapter.

01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:22.340
 Again it talks about how things are processed through the city.

01:26:22.340 --> 01:26:24.280
 Chapter three is our zoning districts.

01:26:24.280 --> 01:26:28.580
 This will include the zoning districts that are being proposed.

01:26:28.580 --> 01:26:31.760
 We currently have 28 zoning districts.

01:26:31.760 --> 01:26:35.200
 Don't have a map here with me but as you can imagine there's a number of zoning districts

01:26:35.200 --> 01:26:40.920
 that we either don't use our duplications of other zoning districts or try to clean

01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:41.920
 it up.

01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:47.280
 We're going from 24, I'm sorry 28 down to 14 so almost half.

01:26:47.280 --> 01:26:50.960
 That can be a little scary because it is a change of what we currently have but we feel

01:26:50.960 --> 01:26:58.520
 that it is something that we need to do in order to better serve the community.

01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:03.800
 In this zoning or this subchapter there is a purpose statement for each zoning district

01:27:03.800 --> 01:27:10.180
 as well as the dimensional standards that are associated with each zoning district.

01:27:10.180 --> 01:27:13.880
 These are the zoning district in green being proposed.

01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:17.720
 As you can see the middle column here is what we currently have.

01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:24.840
 There's a lot more like I said roughly 28 and we're going to go down to 14.

01:27:24.840 --> 01:27:29.080
 The residential we didn't want to change much with regards to residential.

01:27:29.080 --> 01:27:33.080
 The zoning as you see here is just really changing its name.

01:27:33.080 --> 01:27:36.680
 For example NR1 will be R1, NR2 will be R2.

01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:41.200
 Where you'll see more changes are the ones that are being combined.

01:27:41.200 --> 01:27:47.800
 The DR1, DR2, RCR1, RCR2 are now going to be referred to or proposed to be referred

01:27:47.800 --> 01:27:50.440
 to as R7.

01:27:50.440 --> 01:27:58.040
 The other big changes the DCN and DCG combined to MD and so on and so forth that you see

01:27:58.040 --> 01:28:01.040
 on this table.

01:28:01.040 --> 01:28:07.600
 So before I leave this table do you all have any questions so far on the zoning districts?

01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:14.480
 Downtown compatibility area is the area surrounding the downtown.

01:28:14.480 --> 01:28:19.360
 Basically the core is what we refer to as our downtown implementation area.

01:28:19.360 --> 01:28:25.080
 Parkway to the north, Carroll, Exposition and Scripture is your core.

01:28:25.080 --> 01:28:28.080
 Everything surrounding that area is what we call the compatibility area.

01:28:28.080 --> 01:28:37.880
 >> And is there any delineation for like up to four dwelling units is that like duplexes

01:28:37.880 --> 01:28:40.320
 and quads are all in it?

01:28:40.320 --> 01:28:46.480
 >> That is more or less the density dwelling use per acre so I felt--

01:28:46.480 --> 01:28:50.960
 >> So delineation between the male and between those types, okay.

01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:51.960
 >> Right.

01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:54.040
 The uses are presented in each zone.

01:28:54.040 --> 01:28:59.200
 I felt to mention this is actually our future lane use designation that's in our DIN plan

01:28:59.200 --> 01:29:00.960
 2030.

01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:07.480
 These are a little bit higher elevated, you know, looking into the city, I'd say at 35,000.

01:29:07.480 --> 01:29:09.400
 The zoning is really what's on the ground.

01:29:09.400 --> 01:29:15.640
 So this just gives the city guidance on what sort of development should occur.

01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:20.900
 So we go from rural all the way down to industrial in this spectrum.

01:29:20.900 --> 01:29:27.080
 And so the zoning is matched that as well from really low intensity to more intensity

01:29:27.080 --> 01:29:29.160
 with the ICG.

01:29:29.160 --> 01:29:34.320
 Well we're all-- what actually transfers over is the zoning districts that is being proposed.

01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:41.000
 You've got rural residential all the way down to high or heavy industrial that you see here.

01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:43.960
 So really trying to keep it really simple.

01:29:43.960 --> 01:29:44.960
 >> Dwelling unit?

01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:45.960
 >> Dwelling unit.

01:29:45.960 --> 01:30:00.000
 [ Inaudible Remark ]

01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:05.560
 >> In that particular case, it's the unit itself, the door that opens to the unit and that can

01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:07.320
 include multiple bedrooms.

01:30:07.320 --> 01:30:15.880
 So living space, kitchen, and those four, say four or three or four, right, those constitute

01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:22.480
 as a unit.

01:30:22.480 --> 01:30:28.200
 Subchapter four is the overlay districts and that is where you'll see the historic districts

01:30:28.200 --> 01:30:34.080
 that Roman has referred to and which we know actually exists.

01:30:34.080 --> 01:30:38.440
 The Oak-- Hickory, the Bell Avenue as well as the West Oak Historic Districts.

01:30:38.440 --> 01:30:43.520
 So these will carry over to the new proposed code.

01:30:43.520 --> 01:30:50.280
 I know that Roman has also made some changes to the administrative, more of a cleanup.

01:30:50.280 --> 01:30:53.460
 Those also will be carried forward.

01:30:53.460 --> 01:30:55.800
 Those proposed changes came to the HLC.

01:30:55.800 --> 01:30:58.160
 Geez, how long ago was that?

01:30:58.160 --> 01:30:59.440
 >> A year.

01:30:59.440 --> 01:31:07.920
 >> Over a year ago, we decided to not go straight to amending the code and wanted to wait till

01:31:07.920 --> 01:31:13.680
 this code was being considered so we're just carrying all those proposed changes that Roman

01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:18.200
 shared with the commission as part of this DDC update.

01:31:18.200 --> 01:31:32.440
 >> Okay, so one of the-- a year ago, the downtown area lost a large part of one side of the

01:31:32.440 --> 01:31:39.400
 prominent square which was a part of not just the proposed changes to the downtown area

01:31:39.400 --> 01:31:44.880
 but to help make sure that whatever goes there next does have to follow in that character.

01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:51.080
 Is there any-- I guess that I-- in some way, I feel like while that land hasn't been--

01:31:51.080 --> 01:31:56.800
 it hasn't changed hands in ownership or anything like that to my knowledge, I just wonder if

01:31:56.800 --> 01:32:01.440
 there's any urgency in getting that portion of it.

01:32:01.440 --> 01:32:02.440
 >> Thank you for asking that question.

01:32:02.440 --> 01:32:09.800
 There is a downtown design standard that is-- and you heard from Scott McDonald.

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:13.600
 That is actually going to be moving forward sooner than later.

01:32:13.600 --> 01:32:21.080
 They will not-- that portion of that proposed design standards is actually moving to the

01:32:21.080 --> 01:32:24.240
 planning zoning commission city council before this development code update.

01:32:24.240 --> 01:32:25.240
 >> Okay.

01:32:25.240 --> 01:32:26.240
 >> Yes.

01:32:26.240 --> 01:32:27.240
 >> That's what I wanted to know.

01:32:27.240 --> 01:32:28.240
 >> Yes.

01:32:28.240 --> 01:32:29.240
 >> Thank you.

01:32:29.240 --> 01:32:30.240
 >> Yes.

01:32:30.240 --> 01:32:31.240
 >> That's--

01:32:31.240 --> 01:32:32.240
 >> I have only-- that's great.

01:32:32.240 --> 01:32:33.240
 I'm--

01:32:33.240 --> 01:32:34.240
 >> Yes.

01:32:34.240 --> 01:32:35.240
 >> Mary.

01:32:35.240 --> 01:32:38.400
 >> Have the overlays changed in their character in between the two data?

01:32:38.400 --> 01:32:43.720
 >> No, they're just going to be-- they're just carried over to the new code, proposed

01:32:43.720 --> 01:32:44.720
 code.

01:32:44.720 --> 01:32:47.720
 >> And given the-- I have a major concern on SROs.

01:32:47.720 --> 01:32:48.720
 >> Right.

01:32:48.720 --> 01:32:49.720
 >> Single residence occupancy.

01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:50.720
 >> Single residency occupancy.

01:32:50.720 --> 01:32:59.720
 The current new student housing plan for Denton or when they finally decide they're not coming

01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:06.400
 to campus and turn into the transient buildings, I am not happy with all the SROs.

01:33:06.400 --> 01:33:08.840
 >> No.

01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:09.840
 Thanks for bringing that up.

01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:17.120
 That is also a very high topic issue that we are dealing with the Oak Gateway Steering

01:33:17.120 --> 01:33:18.120
 Committee.

01:33:18.120 --> 01:33:22.720
 We are also-- we also have discussed it with the Development Code Review Committee.

01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:28.400
 We are proposing or we are having a work session with city council on December 4th regarding

01:33:28.400 --> 01:33:30.440
 this matter.

01:33:30.440 --> 01:33:35.200
 Staff has some recommendations but that too is a very important issue that we need to

01:33:35.200 --> 01:33:44.600
 address and if and when we have direction, it will be folded into this code update.

01:33:44.600 --> 01:33:50.960
 Use regulations, this basically tells us where uses are permitted in each zoning district

01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:55.360
 and if there are any specific standards that apply to each use.

01:33:55.360 --> 01:34:02.400
 Again, very more elaborate number of uses are being proposed to kind of cover those

01:34:02.400 --> 01:34:05.640
 that are not currently listed in the DDC.

01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:10.680
 Again, what we're trying to do is trying to make sure that we address all the issues that

01:34:10.680 --> 01:34:17.280
 we've had in the past through this code update and this is one of those zoning district or

01:34:17.280 --> 01:34:22.600
 subchapters that will include some of those additional changes.

01:34:22.600 --> 01:34:28.960
 Chapter 6, as I mentioned earlier, will now include all of this areas here or all these

01:34:28.960 --> 01:34:30.280
 topics here.

01:34:30.280 --> 01:34:34.560
 These that in the current code are currently separate subchapters.

01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:40.600
 Now that we are looking at consolidating, they will be part of one subchapter and that

01:34:40.600 --> 01:34:44.520
 will be under development standards.

01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:51.800
 Chapter 7 deals with subdivision regulations, your platting, your development dedication,

01:34:51.800 --> 01:34:55.240
 that sort of thing is under this subchapter.

01:34:55.240 --> 01:34:59.960
 And then chapter 8 is your definitions, contains all of the definitions which to some is not

01:34:59.960 --> 01:35:03.920
 as important, but it's really the most important thing, because in order to know what type

01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:10.160
 of uses are you looking at or certain definition, this plays a very key role in how we review

01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:12.200
 applications.

01:35:12.200 --> 01:35:20.320
 Okay, so moving out of subchapters, the zoning map is a big part of this update as well,

01:35:20.320 --> 01:35:25.160
 and we've done our -- we've been doing a lot of public outreach.

01:35:25.160 --> 01:35:32.880
 There are approximately 30,000 plus property addresses that we know of per the Den County

01:35:32.880 --> 01:35:37.960
 Appraisal District, and each of these property owners have been notified through a postcard

01:35:37.960 --> 01:35:42.720
 and will be notified when we enter the public hearing process through a letter.

01:35:42.720 --> 01:35:48.680
 So we are doing our best to make sure we try to get their attention as soon as possible

01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:55.800
 so that when we get to the public hearing, there are no surprises, so postcards, mailers,

01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:58.040
 all of that is going to be done.

01:35:58.040 --> 01:36:04.760
 Again, email blast, any other social media that we can do to get the word out we have.

01:36:04.760 --> 01:36:06.640
 There is a dedicated website.

01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:13.440
 I encourage you all, if you haven't already done so, denco 2030.com has a lot of the

01:36:13.440 --> 01:36:20.420
 proposed subchapters as well as the zoning map in that website, and again, all the other

01:36:20.420 --> 01:36:27.720
 press releases and newspapers that we try to do our best to get the information out.

01:36:27.720 --> 01:36:34.800
 Again, the dedicated website, all of what is being proposed is under this website as

01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:42.440
 well as the zoning map, and that is something that we are very passionate -- are dedicated

01:36:42.440 --> 01:36:47.080
 on keeping updated, so as soon as you get a chance, please look at that.

01:36:47.080 --> 01:36:53.400
 There will be an updated draft coming up in November this month, so right now, what is

01:36:53.400 --> 01:36:55.520
 there is a public draft.

01:36:55.520 --> 01:37:01.960
 We are going to be coming forward with a consolidated draft, which is just another draft where we've

01:37:01.960 --> 01:37:08.080
 taken comments from the committee, we've taken comments from the citizens, and we're consolidating

01:37:08.080 --> 01:37:14.640
 those into one draft, which incorporates all of those comments.

01:37:14.640 --> 01:37:18.440
 We also have an opportunity to receive input through the comment cards.

01:37:18.440 --> 01:37:22.320
 These comment cards can be submitted in a hard copy or submitted through the website

01:37:22.320 --> 01:37:24.720
 as well.

01:37:24.720 --> 01:37:26.200
 So what's next?

01:37:26.200 --> 01:37:33.340
 November 9th, which was last Friday, we provided the consultants, our consultants, a markup

01:37:33.340 --> 01:37:36.320
 version of the staff draft.

01:37:36.320 --> 01:37:41.440
 What they are going to provide us in two weeks, November 21st, is a consolidated draft as

01:37:41.440 --> 01:37:45.920
 well as a draft updated zoning map, which we will publish online.

01:37:45.920 --> 01:37:52.160
 So again, November 21st, denco2030.com, if you have time, please look at that.

01:37:52.160 --> 01:37:56.480
 We will continue to have stakeholder meetings throughout January -- through January, that

01:37:56.480 --> 01:37:59.040
 is, from December and January.

01:37:59.040 --> 01:38:05.280
 Hopefully we'll start having open houses January, February, and then public hearing in the following

01:38:05.280 --> 01:38:11.000
 month, which is February and then March to city council.

01:38:11.000 --> 01:38:18.680
 The next few slides are just slides showing where we've been, what committees we've presented

01:38:18.680 --> 01:38:24.320
 to as well as neighborhood committees or neighborhood neighborhoods that we've presented to.

01:38:24.320 --> 01:38:27.280
 And you can see we're right here with the HLC.

01:38:27.280 --> 01:38:31.880
 We'll be presenting to planning zoning commission on Wednesday and then also meeting with other

01:38:31.880 --> 01:38:38.220
 stakeholders throughout the next coming months, again, December and January.

01:38:38.220 --> 01:38:44.080
 Our goal is to get here with the planning zoning commission and city council.

01:38:44.080 --> 01:38:53.280
 Those dates are still to be determined, but we're looking at early March for consideration.

01:38:53.280 --> 01:38:54.820
 That concludes my presentation.

01:38:54.820 --> 01:39:01.480
 Just really want to give you all an update of what's going on with the DDC rewrite.

01:39:01.480 --> 01:39:02.480
 Thank you.

01:39:02.480 --> 01:39:03.480
 Thank you so much, Ron.

01:39:03.480 --> 01:39:09.400
 I know that's a massive undertaking.

01:39:09.400 --> 01:39:10.640
 All right.

01:39:10.640 --> 01:39:22.440
 We can take a look at the historic landmark commission project matrix.

01:39:22.440 --> 01:39:32.040
 Very little changes since our last meeting.

01:39:32.040 --> 01:39:38.600
 I have a note there at the bottom just to the item for the painting of the mural.

01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:41.480
 The applicant, Eric, appealed that to city council.

01:39:41.480 --> 01:39:43.040
 It'll be on an upcoming agenda.

01:39:43.040 --> 01:39:49.360
 I think it's -- it might be the 27th, but if you want a detail on that, I can email

01:39:49.360 --> 01:39:53.640
 it to you.

01:39:53.640 --> 01:39:54.640
 That's just a note.

01:39:54.640 --> 01:39:58.400
 I was asked to let you know that.

01:39:58.400 --> 01:40:03.160
 For the most part, the rest, that's kind of in line -- I think we had -- I'll definitely

01:40:03.160 --> 01:40:07.080
 be more diligent -- a lot of these items, I usually used to spend my weekends working

01:40:07.080 --> 01:40:11.240
 on stuff up here, which you know I spent my weekends on the road to last year.

01:40:11.240 --> 01:40:14.920
 So I'll be tackling these, eliminate this stuff.

01:40:14.920 --> 01:40:16.560
 We get some new stuff on here.

01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:17.560
 Awesome.

01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:21.560
 The other thing I wanted to ask before you is -- pardon my ignorance, but what happens

01:40:21.560 --> 01:40:24.000
 in an appeal to city council?

01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:25.000
 They can override this?

01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:26.000
 Is that true?

01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:27.000
 That's true.

01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:33.120
 It's just a basic -- I think it's -- their decision is to appeal -- I mean to --

01:40:33.120 --> 01:40:34.120
 Right.

01:40:34.120 --> 01:40:37.520
 To uphold our decision or to override it.

01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:45.200
 I was actually wondering why you hadn't painted it yet because I just drove by it today.

01:40:45.200 --> 01:40:47.360
 It still looks horrific.

01:40:47.360 --> 01:40:48.640
 That's just my editorial.

01:40:48.640 --> 01:40:49.640
 Sure.

01:40:49.640 --> 01:40:50.640
 No, I --

01:40:50.640 --> 01:40:51.640
 That's cool.

01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:52.640
 As far as I know --

01:40:52.640 --> 01:40:53.640
 As far as I know --

01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:54.640
 And I still like it.

01:40:54.640 --> 01:40:55.640
 That's just straight up and down.

01:40:55.640 --> 01:40:56.640
 I love it.

01:40:56.640 --> 01:40:57.640
 I love all of it.

01:40:57.640 --> 01:40:58.640
 I'll live right next to it.

01:40:58.640 --> 01:40:59.640
 That's okay.

01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:00.640
 My husband and I disagree.

01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:01.640
 He and I have an argument about it.

01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:02.640
 All right.

01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:03.640
 Okay.

01:41:03.640 --> 01:41:10.880
 In the future, you don't have to wait for the end of a meeting.

01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:15.200
 If you have a concern, please call or email and tell me what to look at.

01:41:15.200 --> 01:41:19.360
 So will we be notified of the final decision by council after that's made on that?

01:41:19.360 --> 01:41:20.360
 Yes.

01:41:20.360 --> 01:41:22.520
 If you'd like to come to the meeting, too.

01:41:22.520 --> 01:41:23.520
 Let me pinpoint.

01:41:23.520 --> 01:41:29.080
 I think it's November 27th, if that's the meeting date, but we've been pushing things

01:41:29.080 --> 01:41:30.080
 forward.

01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:32.600
 It was important that you approve the minutes here.

01:41:32.600 --> 01:41:36.080
 We think we would have already gone, but we needed to be able to say here's what the final

01:41:36.080 --> 01:41:37.400
 decision was.

01:41:37.400 --> 01:41:38.400
 Great.

01:41:38.400 --> 01:41:39.400
 Cool.

01:41:39.400 --> 01:42:00.940
 Well, if there is nothing else, then we can go ahead and call this meeting to a close.

01:42:00.940 --> 01:42:01.940
 You don't have to move.

01:42:01.940 --> 01:42:02.940
 See you.

01:42:02.940 --> 01:42:03.940
 Thank you.

01:42:03.940 --> 01:42:04.940
 Bye.

01:42:04.940 --> 01:42:05.940
 Thank you, everybody.

01:42:05.940 --> 01:42:06.940
 Thank you.

01:42:06.940 --> 01:42:06.960
 Get out of here.