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 >> Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and call the regular meeting to order right now at 537 PM.

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 Jerry is on his way, but if we can get a couple of things out of the way, then we can be on our way.

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 Here we go.

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 If you'll please stand for the pledges of allegiance.

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 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

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 And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Under the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one, and indivisible.

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 >> All right, if you'll please look at number two on our meeting agenda.

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 And we're going to look for considering the approval of the 2019 Historic Landmark Commission calendar.

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 Has everybody had a chance to look at the proposed calendar for 2019?

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 I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

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 >> Madam Chair?

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 >> Yes. >> Isn't our January meeting on Martin Luther King Day, the 14th of January?

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 >> This is Veterans Day.

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 >> This is Veterans Day.

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 Are we all out?

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 >> I'm out.

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 >> King Day?

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 I think I am as well, actually.

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 >> So could we move it to the 21st?

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 Is that an option?

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 >> Is the 21st- >> Wrong?

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 >> We're looking- >> Are you checking?

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 >> MLK might be the 21st.

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 >> MLK is the 21st.

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 >> Yes.

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 >> Oh, okay.

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 >> Oh, it's the 21st?

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 >> Yes. >> Well then, cool.

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 >> Excellent.

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 >> Thank you. >> I think that is why we-

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 >> I told her to shut up.

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 >> He marked, we've marked it off, so.

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 >> They have to count this one in March, but that's fine.

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 >> How come the one in March is on the 4th?

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 >> Because of spring break.

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 >> Because of spring break.

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 >> Spring break, and the other option is if you want to push it to the 18th.

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 We just want it, we usually move things up.

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 >> For a spring break, yeah.

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 >> Mm-hm.

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 >> April is the 8th.

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 >> The 8th.

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 >> [INAUDIBLE]

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 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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 >> [INAUDIBLE]

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 >> Okay, any other questions?

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 >> Sorry.

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 >> Any other- >> So we're all good with this, I guess?

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 >> Yeah.

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 >> Any clarifications regarding the dates?

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 Concerns?

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 Ron?

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 >> No, just, again, just reiterating if there are any questions.

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 We can address them, or if not, we just want to get your direction moving forward.

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 >> Okay, as I'm looking through, I want to just, because I think on the school

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 calendar, that looks good for May.

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 >> I mean, otherwise it looks very- >> When is it scheduled for May?

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 >> Mm-hm, and I guess it wouldn't be scheduled on the 8th in July,

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 because 4th of July weekend.

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 >> The after, yes.

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 >> Okay, all right.

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 >> I move we approve the calendar as offered.

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 >> The motion is made by Roy.

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 >> Second.

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 >> Excellent, it is seconded by Helen Bailey, about half a second.

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 The fourth can if.

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 >> Is there any discussion to be had?

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 We've got a motion on the floor.

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 Great, all those in favor, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All those opposed, please say nay.

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 The ayes have it.

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 The motion is approved, five, six, no denials.

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 All right, let's take a look at item B.

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 Consider approval of the Historic Landmark Commission meeting minutes.

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 And Ron, did you say that we could have- >> Yes.

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 >> This executive decision to go ahead and approve the September meeting minutes as well?

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 >> Yes, from the members that are present and majority, of course.

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 >> Excellent, so has everybody had a chance to look over the September and

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 October minutes, and should we do those as two separate agenda items or as one?

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 >> Let's do them separate.

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 >> All right, please take a look at the September 10th, 2018, meeting minutes.

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 If you haven't had a chance to already.

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 And if anybody would like to make a motion.

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 Mary moves that we approve the minutes.

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 Thank you, Ms. Anderson.

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 Does she have a second?

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 >> I'll second.

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 >> Kenneth, thank you for your second.

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 Any discussion?

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 Concerns?

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 Great.

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 Let's go ahead and take a vote.

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 All those in favor of approving the September 10th minutes, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All in favor?

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 All those opposed, please say nay.

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 Great, no nays.

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 The ayes have it, six ayes, no nays.

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 Let's please take a look at the October 8th minutes.

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 And if anybody has a motion to make, please do so.

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 >> Move.

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 >> Not everybody at once.

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 >> I make motion to approve October 8th, 2018 minutes.

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 >> Great, thank you so much for your motion, Kenneth.

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 Does anybody have a second for Kenneth's motion for approval?

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 Thank you, Mary Anderson, for your approval.

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 For your second.

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 Any clarifications, questions regarding the minutes?

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 Great.

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 All those in favor, please say aye.

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 >> Aye.

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 >> All those opposed, please say nay.

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 The motion is to approve the minutes for October the 8th, it passes with six, no denials.

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 Let's go ahead and move on to agenda item 2C.

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 We're going to take a look at the public, we're going to hold a public meeting and

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 consider an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness.

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 Let me clarify this.

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 We have an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness

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 in accordance with section 35.7.6.8A to install solar panels on the home located at 2212 West Oak Street.

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 The home is located on the north side of West Oak between Bradley and Thomas Street in the West Oak Historic District.

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 The presentation will be given by Roman McAllen.

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 Welcome, Roman.

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 >> Okay, hello everybody.

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 >> Hello.

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 >> So bear with me, I got a lot of slides on this one.

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 So you know the house.

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 This is a photograph under construction about three weeks ago, I think.

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 The rehabilitation that you all approved a while back, as you see in your packet.

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 It was November of 2017, I think, is when that work started.

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 So I'm going to talk, we have two items about solar panels.

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 And in fact, I thought to go through both of these slide presentations quickly,

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 because I think the situation for both of them is similar.

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 And then maybe you could come back and consider the items, because they really tie together very closely.

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 So a couple notes from the Secretary of Interior's standards on solar panels.

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 This is all from their language here.

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 And so they say that solar panels that are installed that cannot be seen from the ground

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 will generally meet the Secretary of Interior's standards.

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 And then on the other hand, if installation negatively impacts the character of the district or

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 the property, then they wouldn't meet the standards.

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 But then, and I shouldn't have really changed the font.

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 This is right out of their book.

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 But what about that gray area between out of sight and obviously obtrusive installations?

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 So although every project is different, this is their language as well.

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 It must be evaluated on its own merit.

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 The National Park Service has developed this guidance on how to apply the standards to

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 the installation of solar panels.

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 And then they have some examples in their book.

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 And I need to step away just to really point out, I picked these three examples.

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 This one here, this one is some solar panels installed here.

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 And these are the different types of buildings.

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 So on a cross-gabled structure, they mentioned that this is okay because

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 it's minimized by the complexity of the side elevation.

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 So this whole side elevations complexity,

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 they felt that that didn't detract from the integrity of the structure.

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 And then down here below, they also said the same thing.

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 And I can't remember the facade that faces the street.

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 I can't see him there, but I can't remember the project there.

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 So we'll move to the next one, but there's some light there.

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 Now in this situation here on a rear side porch, I really didn't need to put this in.

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 Here's kind of the front elevation, and way back there, there's a side porch.

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 And on the back of that side porch, you have, and that's just blatantly obvious,

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 very far away from the front.

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 And then here on a low-slope gable, and there's the low-slope gable roof.

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 And you can kind of see those panels right there.

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 So then they say these are minimally visible, and they're located on the south side.

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 And then they have another image of it.

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 So from this angle, the panels are more noticeable, yet the historic character of the building

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 is not significantly diminished.

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 And so you get a three-story old gable building.

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 So that's what you get from the national standards.

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 Well that's one part, let's say, of the national standards.

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 Here's another booklet.

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 They have lots of things out on this subject.

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 And here, there's two pages, and they talk about different technology here.

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 And I didn't really actually read through these.

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 So this is one that's installing a low-profile solar device on historic buildings so that

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 it is not visible or only minimally visible from the public right of way is recommended.

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 And also installing it in a manner that does not damage the historic roofing material or

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 negatively impact the building's historic character.

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 And then installing them flat to reduce visibility work.

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 So they were OK with this as sort of the rear of this commercial building near a ramp, I

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 believe, a back door.

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 So they were OK with that.

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 Here's some on a flat surface.

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 And here, the panels negatively impact, obviously, the front of that building.

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 Some more examples.

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 And so it says that this is interesting.

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 Some cities have chosen to require that people exhaust all other efficiency methodologies

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 prior to installing the solar panels.

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 And I saw that mentioned a couple of times.

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 So this refers to that.

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 Consider on-site solar technology only after implementing all appropriate treatments to

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 improve energy efficiency of the building, which often have greater life cycle cost benefits.

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 Knowing the contractor on this building, he actually has probably put a lot more energy

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 efficiency into this building than anyone else normally would have.

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 Analyzing whether the technology can be successful and will benefit the building.

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 Will it work?

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 They're basically asking, will it work?

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 And then minimal impact, looking for minimal impact again.

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 And in locations that have been feasible.

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 So no trees or something else blocking it.

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 So given that, here's our site.

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 And I wanted to just give it in scale.

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 You know, the University of North Texas is down here.

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 And Hickory and Oak, and this is the site that we're dealing with.

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 These properties all have a pretty similar setback.

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 And then when you get down here on this part of Oak, these structures, the one we toured

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 last year was here, was demolished.

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 So that's where we're dealing with.

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 And just another coming a little closer to the site here, looking at it.

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 And again, just a little closer, working up to the site in the situation that we have

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 on this house.

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00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,880
 The drawing that the contractor submitted shows you that these solar panels would be

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 mounted on this kind of low pitch porch that's on the front of the building and on this side

218
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 addition, later addition to the building out here.

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 And then some on the second floor facing west between these gables.

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 So here's a 3D image of that.

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 So there's the low pitch panels there.

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 And then the panels on this side building.

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 And then there's some you can't see here, so we can see them up here.

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 So this is the front that you see from West Oak.

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 And there are those side panels.

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 So I wanted to give you a sense of what that feels like.

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 Please watch this.

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 I think this isn't critical here.

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 This is the experience one has currently if you're driving one way westbound on Oak.

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 As you approach this property, these photographs were taken at approximately eye level in what

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 would be a car.

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 I actually just walked down the street to do this.

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 But there's the building off to the right.

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 And although these trees are green today, you can imagine that they do lose their leaves

235
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 and I have proof of that in another image.

236
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,900
 But the addition is back here.

237
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 You would see these panels up there on that one accessory, on the addition.

238
00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:38,740
 And this is as you pass the house.

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 And if you're really getting right in front of the house, you'd be looking through in

240
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:44,240
 this area.

241
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 So that side, the low pitch porch is right here.

242
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 And then that addition is over there.

243
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 And of course it's pretty hard to see back.

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 Those additional panels would be up here.

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 If you're a pedestrian and you looked hard, you would make them out.

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 So there's the low pitch porch right there.

247
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,600
 So you'd end up with a little bit of a dark, probably a little extra line there, two to

248
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,760
 three or four inches above I guess the surface of that.

249
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:17,560
 This is going to be a standing seam roof, I believe, on that porch.

250
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,920
 So just reiterating, there's the satellite image sort of of this, sort of, because we

251
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,800
 were to granulate a Google Earth image, and then that's generally where you'd be looking

252
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,240
 at those panels to be installed.

253
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,200
 Now if you're -- this is a very close-up image of the building, and so those panels would

254
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:42,160
 be again above here on this part of the building, and then over there, you can kind of make

255
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,640
 out that roof, and that's right in front of the building.

256
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,600
 This is a winter image prior to renovation work.

257
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:56,480
 And I'm up obviously in the circular drive, and so those panels would be on the side over

258
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:04,800
 here, up here, and over there.

259
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:11,240
 Given this situation, this is the recommendation for approval for this addition.

260
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,280
 Now let me show you the next building before we get into discussion.

261
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:21,960
 Next building is closer to downtown, here, we're over here.

262
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,700
 And just coincidentally we had an application.

263
00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:31,000
 This is the lovely home at 723 West Oak, and this building over here is where he's asking

264
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,720
 to put solar panels on.

265
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,920
 These pictures are from this morning.

266
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,360
 So again, coming down the street, this is not the house, it's up this driveway here,

267
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:47,820
 and the panels would be on the western face of this garage.

268
00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:52,120
 And you again might be able, if you get in the right spot in your pedestrian, you might

269
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:58,640
 be able to see those panels here on the edge and a little bit further if you walked a little

270
00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,640
 further along.

271
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,160
 But it's pretty difficult when you pass that building.

272
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,160
 Here's a better image.

273
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,680
 So you might be able to see them there.

274
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:12,740
 So do you have any questions for me about that, and so I'm recommending approval because

275
00:17:12,740 --> 00:17:18,000
 to me overall, and by the way, I want to make sure it's clear, there is an email, a copy

276
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:25,200
 of an email you have from Patty Hayworth, who's here tonight, and she's opposed to these

277
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,600
 and you got the email there, please read it.

278
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:35,840
 And I understand there could be some opposition, but in my mind, there doesn't seem to be enough

279
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:43,840
 taking away from the building in its place nor the district given the situation for both

280
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:44,920
 houses.

281
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,280
 But we're talking about this one first.

282
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,240
 This one in its distance from the street is the real, you know, if this was right up on

283
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:56,680
 the street, it would be different, I think, because these panels would be a little closer.

284
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:05,040
 But this is, historically we know this house developed in stages and dramatically, dramatic

285
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:10,920
 alterations were made to this main structure around the turn of the century.

286
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,840
 And I hate to show you that image because, of course, it looks a lot better today.

287
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,800
 It has efficient windows on it and just an amazing amount of work has gone into this

288
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,060
 building.

289
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:23,960
 Any questions?

290
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,340
 I have a question, Roman.

291
00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:32,440
 My question is about, I mean, if somebody, how do you get enough solar efficiency to

292
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,600
 make this worthwhile because none of these are facing, it seems, at the right angle to

293
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,600
 the right direction.

294
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,340
 And the only way to accomplish this may be to remove trees to get more sunlight, which

295
00:18:42,340 --> 00:18:46,320
 worries me to know in because these are gorgeous trees you just showed.

296
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,680
 So I don't see how efficient at this angle you're going to get except maybe in the wintertime

297
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,440
 and facing west is not exactly the most best place for solar.

298
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,720
 I'm not an expert on those questions, Mary.

299
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,320
 I could hypothesize.

300
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:07,240
 I think the trees that are in the lawn are pretty far away from the building, especially

301
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,740
 on the front side.

302
00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:14,040
 But the contractor is here and I'm sure he's very knowledgeable on the direction of it.

303
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,040
 And, Mary, you're correct.

304
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,040
 The south side is what you really want.

305
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,960
 And you also want them at a slight angle, not flat.

306
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,960
 Right.

307
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,960
 Exactly.

308
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:29,520
 To get the best efficiency out of a solar panel array.

309
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,760
 So I had the same question.

310
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,240
 So some of these are south-facing and some are not.

311
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,240
 Hold on.

312
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,240
 They're south-facing.

313
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,520
 Yeah, a little bit.

314
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,680
 But our question is not -- the question before us is not -- on the agenda is not whether

315
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,120
 or not they're efficient.

316
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:48,200
 The question is whether or not they detract from the historical property or character

317
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,640
 of the property.

318
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,960
 So I want to make sure that we're staying on track and considering what's actually before

319
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:54,960
 us.

320
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:55,960
 Thank you.

321
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:56,960
 Mr. Drake.

322
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:57,960
 Yes.

323
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:05,360
 I just wanted to make sure we have called item C, I believe, to -- on the agenda.

324
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:11,520
 We haven't actually called item D on the agenda, but it sounds like some of our discussion

325
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,160
 has incorporated item D discussion as well.

326
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,280
 You know, and I think that maybe partially because parts of the presentation went into

327
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,080
 item D also.

328
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:30,960
 I think that you could probably hear them both simultaneously if you call them both,

329
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,820
 as far as under the Texas Open Meetings Act.

330
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:39,760
 Otherwise, we should probably focus on C first, then call item D, and then have our discussion

331
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:40,760
 on that.

332
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,760
 Thank you.

333
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,200
 Since we are on item C, I would like for us to remain on item C, please.

334
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,200
 Thank you.

335
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,200
 Yes, Angie.

336
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:57,440
 So on the solar panels, on this little porch here, are they going to stay flat?

337
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,200
 Are these going to be ones that are able to move?

338
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:05,440
 Because I've seen them where they can adjust for -- to be able to get the energy.

339
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,120
 So are they going to stay flat or are they going to be adjustable?

340
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:12,720
 I think the contractor should answer that, I'm not sure.

341
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,920
 Any other questions for Roman?

342
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,380
 Mary.

343
00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:27,800
 I saw you say early on with the first slides, just show me the -- make sure we had the wording

344
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,800
 correctly.

345
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,800
 Uh-huh.

346
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:30,800
 What it is.

347
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,800
 So you got this one.

348
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,800
 Let's keep going back.

349
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,800
 I think it was like the second or third slide.

350
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:38,800
 Okay.

351
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,800
 You got these different roof types.

352
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:40,800
 No, it was -- this is here, right here.

353
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:41,800
 This is the first one, I guess.

354
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:51,920
 So solar panels, seeing that's not true, at least for this one, negatively impacts the

355
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:57,920
 historic character of the students, and then there's the gray area.

356
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,480
 So it doesn't actually say what negatively impacts the historic character.

357
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,040
 It doesn't define that.

358
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:09,240
 So when we're looking at the photos, can you go forward two photos?

359
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,040
 Can you go forward two more?

360
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,040
 Keep going.

361
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,040
 Okay.

362
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,040
 Go back.

363
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,040
 Two.

364
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,040
 Thank you.

365
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,360
 I wanted to -- one more.

366
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:29,080
 I wanted to point out that it does say not recommended is installing a solar device that

367
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,760
 is not reversible.

368
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,960
 That means that recommended would be something that is reversible, because it would not impact

369
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:43,240
 the actual integrity of the structure over time.

370
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:53,320
 So just -- and if we're looking at this, we are seeing actual awnings on the right-of-way

371
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,060
 that are seen that are solar panels.

372
00:22:57,060 --> 00:23:01,080
 That's not -- well, that's the back entrance.

373
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,080
 That's what I'm saying.

374
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,080
 Right.

375
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,080
 That's not the front.

376
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,080
 Go back one.

377
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,080
 Secondary location.

378
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,080
 Right.

379
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,360
 And then to the back.

380
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:09,360
 Go back one more.

381
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,360
 I don't know where you want to go.

382
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,520
 There's only two pages that look like this.

383
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,140
 There's the houses side by side, that one, where the white -- because we've seen this

384
00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:24,480
 before when we had solar panels brought up about a year ago.

385
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:32,200
 We have that low profile on the White House that is seen from the right-of-way as well.

386
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,000
 You mentioned -- I think it's important to point out, and I did in my presentation, that

387
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,360
 several years ago there was a property in the West Oak Historic District that wanted

388
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:48,960
 solar panels, and it was denied by the Landmark Commission, and that applicant went to --

389
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,960
 City Council.

390
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,960
 Yeah, went to City Council.

391
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,040
 But before he did that, he went to every member of the West Oak Historic District, and they

392
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,040
 signed --

393
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,040
 West Oak.

394
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,040
 Yeah, West Oak.

395
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,960
 And they signed a petition.

396
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,000
 I don't know if -- I think it was everybody.

397
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000
 I doubt it.

398
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000
 Almost got them all.

399
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,000
 It was a large number.

400
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,240
 But they all were in favor of it, and those panels are on that structure today on the

401
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,680
 west side of the second floor, kind of where these would be.

402
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:12,680
 Right.

403
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,680
 But they are definitely visible from the right-of-way.

404
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,560
 I have one other question.

405
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,560
 Yes, Angie.

406
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,560
 Thank you.

407
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,560
 No, go ahead.

408
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,560
 He had his hand up first.

409
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,560
 Oh.

410
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:29,880
 Well, I'm just -- for the point of order here, Roman, these standards that are listed as

411
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:36,360
 sort of federal recommendations and standards and all, are they actually incorporated into

412
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:43,480
 our code, or are they examples of how -- that may be instructive into how others view this

413
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,480
 issue?

414
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,040
 It's a very good question.

415
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:54,800
 That's the latter point is true, because our ordinance, as pointed out in your staff report,

416
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,760
 we have criteria for denial.

417
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,900
 That's our criteria for denial.

418
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:05,160
 We have not adopted the United States Secretary of Interior's standards as required.

419
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:13,680
 And there's a caveat to that, except in one place, Belle Avenue Conservation District

420
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,160
 adopted -- they're in there as an appendix, so it doesn't say what they're there for,

421
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,600
 but their guidelines are in that.

422
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,240
 Now, going forward, as soon as we get the DDC code done, we will be utilizing them as

423
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,080
 a guide, I believe.

424
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,360
 Their guidance for our decision -- they won't be any stronger then than they are now.

425
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,640
 They're a tool for making decisions.

426
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:40,640
 So the point being that -- just so there's no misunderstanding, these are not a standard,

427
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,200
 and there's no binding impact on this.

428
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,000
 I believe staff's bringing them forward as potentially instructive in guiding you through

429
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,360
 your decision.

430
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:50,360
 Okay.

431
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:51,360
 Thank you.

432
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,360
 Angie.

433
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:53,360
 Okay.

434
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:54,360
 Do you have a question?

435
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,360
 I do.

436
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:59,320
 A lot of times you mentioned how far off the road the structure is.

437
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,360
 And I'm just wondering, in these standards, I didn't see anything that addressed that.

438
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:08,920
 It actually just said -- and that's what I wanted to clarify -- there was nothing that

439
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,280
 said how far off of a right-of-way or that visually that you could see it.

440
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,120
 And so that's my question, is there anything in those standards, because I'd hate to do

441
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:24,320
 it based on where a structure is located and not for someone else because of where it's

442
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,320
 located.

443
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,720
 So here at the very up front, they talk about cannot be seen from the ground, where you're

444
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,720
 standing there.

445
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,200
 So there's that reference there.

446
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,920
 And then in each of these descriptions, they talk about a little bit of -- it's visible,

447
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,560
 but it's not a bad problem, like this one here, minimal -- or, no, I'm sorry, this bottom

448
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,440
 one, which I can't quite read, is -- I can't even see.

449
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,200
 The front of the King's Daughter's home, the solar panels are installed on the facade that

450
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,200
 faces the street.

451
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,200
 So the question is, it is relevant to where, you know, you could see it.

452
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:01,160
 In the case of this building, the main thing to think of in my mind is just that distance.

453
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:07,680
 Does it take away from the historic character of this house from right there?

454
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:14,400
 And you could imagine in the winter soon, you know, you'll see that -- there's that

455
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,400
 little pitch out there.

456
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,080
 Out over there, you're going to see a few panels.

457
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,880
 And you're not really going to be able to see these.

458
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:30,480
 It's going to look like a little thickness to the porch line, which -- and then, of course,

459
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,940
 those up there, you're not going to see at all unless you're walking and you maybe even

460
00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:40,360
 have to come up in the lawn here to get to it.

461
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:44,040
 It really appears to me -- and if you get up right up in front of the building, now

462
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,200
 if you're even standing right there, your prominent features are this gable, the height

463
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,240
 of this gable, these dormers, this roof, this porch.

464
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,560
 There's a lot of integrity all in there, and you're not going to have a panel.

465
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,440
 Here you won't see those panels, but barely be able to visualize them above that.

466
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,200
 And then these are -- you would see maybe the first two or three, I think those maybe

467
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,260
 four or however many panels can be used on that side.

468
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:14,840
 So given that scene -- and here's a little further out, but here, again, I'm halfway

469
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,920
 up in the yard at least to get that view of it.

470
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,380
 Rowan, I have a question.

471
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:26,000
 Would it make any difference to the staff if the ones that are on the east side of the

472
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,640
 house that face the street were moved to the garage, which is not -- it's brand new, right?

473
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:38,000
 It has no -- I'm not sure, but that could be a possibility.

474
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,000
 Trees may block it.

475
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,720
 Again, I think -- But facing east is worse because that's

476
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,440
 -- I mean, that's the direction all the traffic comes from.

477
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,440
 I'm sorry.

478
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,440
 Facing due south.

479
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,240
 No, I think he means move.

480
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,400
 So there's an addition here, a garage, that's been built here, and so Roy is suggesting

481
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,320
 could the panels be moved to this side out here?

482
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,320
 To the new addition.

483
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,320
 I see.

484
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,040
 Well, I didn't know if it would matter.

485
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,840
 That was my question, probably for -- We can ask the contractor that, who should

486
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,200
 have more knowledge in that.

487
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,080
 May I have only one other question?

488
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,080
 The guidelines suggested that you should have something that is not permanent or removable

489
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,080
 or something.

490
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,840
 What in the world would be permanent anyway on a solar thing?

491
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,640
 I'm just kind of dumb, but I have no clue.

492
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,600
 I would think it'd have to do with if you have to be destructive in order to install

493
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:27,600
 them.

494
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:36,040
 If the brackets are such that it's destroying part of the original building -- roof, I guess,

495
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,900
 I could imagine that that would be a problem.

496
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,200
 And if they come back -- say they decide after 10 years they want to put on new, do they

497
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,560
 have to come back -- they get destroyed by a hail storm, will they come back again?

498
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,560
 No.

499
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:50,560
 You replace like with like.

500
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,360
 If it's been approved already and they're replacing like with like, then they do not

501
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,360
 come back.

502
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,080
 But is like a solar panel or is like the same solar panel look or could it be any other

503
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,880
 horrible-looking solar panel, for example?

504
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,680
 A year from now it gets destroyed and they're going to replace it with something that's

505
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,840
 totally -- If they replace it with something different,

506
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,760
 then it would have to come back before either through -- it would have to be approved.

507
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,480
 It might be -- it would probably be administratively improved unless it was really a different

508
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,480
 thing.

509
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,880
 Like extremely different.

510
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,520
 Because it would be maintenance if it was just like a broken -- like a broken anything

511
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,760
 else, a broken window or air-conditioning unit.

512
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,040
 Or a roof.

513
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,720
 If your roof gets destroyed by hail damage and you're not changing what kind of roof

514
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,440
 you're putting on there, that's administrative approval.

515
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,520
 All right.

516
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,240
 Any other questions for Roman?

517
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,240
 Okay.

518
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,320
 Here we go.

519
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,280
 So let's go ahead and open this up for the public portion of the meeting.

520
00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,520
 Do we want to go ahead -- Dan, would you like to come up and speak to this?

521
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,520
 Yes.

522
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,520
 Thank you.

523
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,520
 You know the drill.

524
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,560
 Did you give us your address and your name?

525
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,560
 Thank you.

526
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,560
 Hi, Dan.

527
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,560
 Thanks for coming.

528
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,560
 I appreciate it.

529
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:11,560
 Sure.

530
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,560
 I'm Dan Fetty.

531
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,200
 I live at 2708 Glenwood here in Denton.

532
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,200
 Welcome, Dan.

533
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,200
 Thank you.

534
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,200
 Do you want me to start?

535
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,200
 Please.

536
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,200
 Okay.

537
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:27,680
 When we examined the possibility of putting this -- presenting it to you, we looked at

538
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,060
 all sorts of considerations.

539
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:33,000
 We did consider putting it on the garage.

540
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,920
 The trees on the west side of the garage are very tall, would really defeat the purpose

541
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,000
 of putting solar panels on at all.

542
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,000
 Okay.

543
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:49,760
 There are no such trees on the east side of the house that would obstruct sunshine having

544
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,160
 a favorable effect on the panels there.

545
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,200
 Please notice where we did not propose to put them, and that is on the high-pitched

546
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:06,200
 south-facing roof plane in between those front-facing dormers there, because we were trying to minimize

547
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:14,280
 the appearance of something unusual on historic structure.

548
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,280
 Okay.

549
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:23,080
 The ones there on the front porch, while it is ideal to have them on a pitch that is equal

550
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:31,020
 to the latitude, typically about 34 degrees here, it's not necessary.

551
00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:36,240
 There's plenty of installations out there that are producing very well on flat roofs.

552
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,080
 So we have a slight pitch.

553
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:46,800
 It's probably maybe a 7-degree pitch, something like that, on the south and east-facing sides

554
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,200
 of that wraparound porch.

555
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:55,720
 The ones on the west side of the house, granted, they're not going to start producing until

556
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:03,880
 about, oh, noontime, and after that they will produce more than a south-facing roof array

557
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,960
 would produce, because they're going to get more direct sunlight from that point.

558
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,200
 So they're not going to be producing in the morning, but they're going to be producing

559
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,960
 more in the afternoon.

560
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:19,480
 So again, we tried to position them in a way that would have a minimal effect on the appearance

561
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,240
 of the house.

562
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,240
 Thank you, Dan.

563
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,240
 Okay.

564
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,480
 Members of the board, do you have any questions?

565
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,040
 Yes, Angie.

566
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:38,920
 So my question earlier, so they're not going to be flat, a 7-degree pitch on the front?

567
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:45,000
 They'll be mounted flush with the angle of the roof in every instance.

568
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,440
 There are brackets that lift it up in the neighborhood of 3 inches, but they would be

569
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:59,480
 mounted to that surface at the angle of the roof, at the angle of the roof pitch.

570
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,480
 Okay.

571
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,320
 So you're saying that roof pitch is 7 degrees?

572
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,320
 Probably.

573
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,320
 Somewhere in there.

574
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:12,720
 I think it's like a 1 and 12 pitch, one rise vertically for every 12 feet, horizontal.

575
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:14,920
 And then they would not move from that?

576
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,520
 No, they're not adjustable.

577
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,800
 They don't track the sunlight.

578
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:20,800
 They're fixed.

579
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:21,800
 Okay.

580
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:22,800
 Thank you.

581
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:23,800
 Good question, Angie.

582
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:24,800
 Absolutely.

583
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:37,000
 Dan, did you all plan these yourselves, or did you have any consultations done with the

584
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,080
 company?

585
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:44,280
 We had our photovoltaic installer, but I've used many times, out there several times to

586
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:50,080
 get to look at where the shade was, to look at how much space was available.

587
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:58,360
 There has to be a particular amount of area around the proposed panels for people to walk

588
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,480
 on, like for fire code and such things as that.

589
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:08,720
 And yeah, he is the one that participated in this array we're presenting to you.

590
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:09,720
 Great.

591
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:17,360
 So he helped you figure out what would create the maximum efficiency, and that was?

592
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,360
 We're avoiding that.

593
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,360
 Okay.

594
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,800
 The south-facing roof plane, as you've pointed out, would provide the maximum benefit, and

595
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,800
 we're avoiding that.

596
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,800
 Okay.

597
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:26,800
 For the reason I mentioned.

598
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:27,800
 Right.

599
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,800
 Okay.

600
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:29,800
 Mary?

601
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:36,440
 I guess I had a question of why not something that would be like a solar roof?

602
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,840
 When this came up in the past in other areas, they sell solar shingles.

603
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,840
 No, not yet.

604
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:43,840
 They don't.

605
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,840
 Tesla had them on the market.

606
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,960
 They were trying to promote them locally, and they pulled their representative from

607
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,680
 the state of Texas, for whatever reason.

608
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,400
 And they're not as efficient, and they're very expensive.

609
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:04,560
 And that's the kind of thing that would require the house almost to be disassembled to change

610
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:05,560
 them out.

611
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,000
 The panels are something that mount on ... These panels are something that mount on top of

612
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
 the roof.

613
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,360
 And are not going to damage the structure of the house?

614
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:15,360
 They will not.

615
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,360
 No.

616
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,360
 Right.

617
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,000
 They're going to ... It's probably ... The shingles will last longer under those panels

618
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,600
 than the ones adjoining them, adjacent to them.

619
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,600
 I don't know.

620
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,600
 Right.

621
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,960
 My roof probably doesn't have panels, but I could just see all the leaves getting jammed

622
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:35,760
 into that, and damaging the roof even faster leaves are my bane.

623
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:36,760
 Okay.

624
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:42,600
 My other question for you is, why not, having heard some of this discussion in the past

625
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:50,520
 in various places, why not consider alternatives like panels in the back, or wind turbines,

626
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,200
 or something else that would be pretty much as efficient.

627
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,280
 They have some really cute little turbines.

628
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,920
 Panels in the back would be facing north?

629
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,440
 No, facing south, but in the backyard facing up.

630
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,280
 It's a big enough lot that you could move it down to the back.

631
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,320
 Well, we're not showing you a site plan on this house.

632
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:13,840
 There's no room in the back of this lot for such an array, and there's brimful of trees.

633
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:14,840
 Back of this lot ...

634
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,040
 Facing south, there's brimful of trees?

635
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,040
 I'm sorry.

636
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:23,920
 On the north side of the house, which would be the rear of the house, there's maybe 12

637
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:31,320
 feet separating the back of the house from the back property line.

638
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,280
 It's heavily, heavily treed.

639
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,600
 I can show you that.

640
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,600
 Okay.

641
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,600
 I have another question.

642
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,600
 Yes.

643
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,600
 Let's see.

644
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,600
 Is the yard on the front?

645
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:42,600
 Yeah, the way ...

646
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,600
 Right.

647
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,600
 The lot line.

648
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,600
 ... the planning made them cut this lot up.

649
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,600
 I don't know.

650
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:49,600
 Thank you, Ken.

651
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:50,600
 It was ...

652
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:51,600
 I don't have any ...

653
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,320
 It's a 21 up to 21.

654
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,320
 2212.

655
00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:02,800
 I mean, it really ... There's not much back there.

656
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:03,800
 No.

657
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,640
 I've walked the property before.

658
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:15,960
 There's not a big open space behind the house between the back of the house, the smaller,

659
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,160
 very well treed lot that there is, and the ... Do you see?

660
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,160
 Yeah.

661
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,160
 I can see the trees now.

662
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,160
 Mm-hmm.

663
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,160
 So the lot line is ... The lot line is really short.

664
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,440
 It's just like right ... Right.

665
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:38,760
 And there's another house back there that ... I mean, that's beneath that tree canopy

666
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:39,760
 almost.

667
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,760
 Angie?

668
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,760
 Yes.

669
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,520
 I have one other question.

670
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:51,080
 Something that Roman shared with us earlier with those guidelines was that some of them

671
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,520
 weren't approving the solar technology unless they've made other attempts for efficiency.

672
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,680
 Would you mind sharing what you've done in the home so far for efficiency?

673
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:01,680
 Sure.

674
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:02,680
 Sure.

675
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,080
 We are using a special foam.

676
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:11,040
 The inside of the wall frame on houses built that long ago, it was typical to put the sheathing

677
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,400
 on the inside surface of the studs.

678
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,760
 We have shiplap sheathing throughout the original part of the house.

679
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:28,720
 What were ... When you pulled the wall covering off, in some places it was ... In a few places

680
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:29,720
 it was wallpaper.

681
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:36,200
 Mostly it was sheetrock that had been laid over the top of that shiplap over time.

682
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:43,120
 We've removed that, repaired, or we're in the process of repairing any damage on the

683
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:49,600
 original interior sheathing to wire the house, rewire it, we're going to have to poke holes

684
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,520
 in that sheathing all around.

685
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,680
 We're also going to poke holes in that sheathing all around between the studs and use a specially

686
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:10,360
 made foam, injectable foam insulation for applications like this, for retrofits that allow that foam

687
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:17,000
 to get in the wall cavity by means of that small hole that you've cut in the sheathing.

688
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,000
 We're going to cover all those holes at the end of the job with a new 3/8 inch layer of

689
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,000
 sheetrock.

690
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,200
 Walls and sloping ceilings in the house will be insulated with a foam material that actually

691
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,160
 has a higher R value than sprayed polyurethane foam.

692
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,440
 That's top of the line there.

693
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,520
 The flat ceiling area, what little flat ceiling area there is above the sloping ceilings

694
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:51,080
 on the top floor is going to get R-48, R-49 of blown in insulation above it.

695
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,080
 The new walls on the back of the house, or rather, the walls on the back of the house

696
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:02,800
 were walls that occurred through many additions to the house.

697
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,520
 None of those had solid sheathing on the inside.

698
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,480
 Removing the wall covering there, it was just sheetrock.

699
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,400
 We're exposing all the wall cavities in the back of the house.

700
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,400
 We will spray that with sprayed polyurethane foam.

701
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,920
 We'll spray the underside of the roof deck on the back side of the house with sprayed

702
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,200
 polyurethane foam.

703
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:30,880
 We're using a kind of a radiant barrier synthetic underlayment under the shingles for a little

704
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,660
 bit more reflection of sunlight coming into the house.

705
00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:42,520
 We're foaming under the floor everywhere, so we'll use LED lights wherever we can.

706
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,800
 We'll use Energy Star appliances wherever we can.

707
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,600
 We're using very high quality air conditionings.

708
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:57,000
 The energy efficiency stuff, that's my wheelhouse, so we're doing all of that that I typically

709
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
 do.

710
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,800
 One of the things that I built for this customer was a home measuring up to the zero energy

711
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,920
 ready home program that the Department of Energy conducts.

712
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,680
 Were you able to do anything with the windows for efficiency?

713
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:12,680
 Yes.

714
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,640
 We're putting new windows in all around.

715
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:23,660
 The windows on the front of the house are as close to the appearance of the original

716
00:42:23,660 --> 00:42:25,000
 windows as we could make.

717
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:36,320
 They're double pane windows with a very good solar heat rating and a very good U-value,

718
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,600
 which is inverse of R-value.

719
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,440
 It just means well insulated double pane windows.

720
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,760
 Are they wood?

721
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:46,760
 Wood windows throughout, yes.

722
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,720
 That was part of the -- I wasn't here for that, so that was it.

723
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:51,720
 Right.

724
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:52,720
 I just wondered.

725
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,480
 Do you have plumbing fixtures in your town?

726
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,480
 Well we're also going to do a gray water, where we're going to try to do a gray water

727
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,480
 system on that.

728
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,600
 That would be the second gray water system in the city of Ninton.

729
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:06,600
 Wow.

730
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:13,480
 The first one's across the street on Alamo Place.

731
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,120
 We're not using water sense.

732
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:21,440
 We're not trying deliberately to use water sense plumbing fixtures, but the same low flow

733
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:27,720
 stuff that you have to do for Energy Star rating for the water.

734
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:28,720
 Thank you so much, Dan.

735
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:30,720
 Angie, does that satisfy the question?

736
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:31,720
 It does.

737
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:32,720
 Thank you.

738
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:33,720
 Awesome.

739
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:35,760
 Any other questions for Dan?

740
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,600
 Dan, thank you for the work that you've done.

741
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,600
 Good.

742
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:41,600
 Thanks.

743
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,840
 I appreciate your coming and visiting with us tonight.

744
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,320
 All right.

745
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,720
 While we still have the floor open for the public portion of the meeting, is there anybody

746
00:43:50,720 --> 00:44:01,940
 else from the public who would like to come and speak regarding this agenda item?

747
00:44:01,940 --> 00:44:10,240
 Come on up Ms. Patty Hayworth.

748
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:11,240
 Patty you know the drill.

749
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:12,240
 I know the drill.

750
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:13,720
 Please give us your name and your address.

751
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:16,320
 Patty Hayworth, 1506 Allen Park Road, Denton.

752
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,840
 Thank you.

753
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,120
 Anything that has been presented about these panels not being viewable has been contingent

754
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:32,000
 on those trees being there, and the issue is not viewable with or without trees.

755
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,840
 It's viewable, and we cannot count on those trees always being there.

756
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,480
 They could be struck by lightning.

757
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,880
 They could burn in a fire.

758
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,360
 All sorts of things can happen to trees.

759
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:49,760
 So I think as we look at this, we need to look at, is it, can you see it?

760
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,560
 And if the trees aren't there, the answer is yes.

761
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,680
 These solar panels can be seen.

762
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,400
 In terms of the Secretary of the Interior's standards and whether we are held to those

763
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:05,880
 or not, we are a certified local government, the city is, and as such, are we not held

764
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,400
 to the Secretary of the Interior's standards as a CLG?

765
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,120
 Think about that.

766
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:19,120
 Ground-mounted solar panels, I have not heard these mentioned.

767
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,600
 These are something to consider.

768
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,640
 There is lots of land on this site.

769
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,500
 It is not all covered by trees.

770
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:34,240
 There can be options here where the owner can still have his solar panels, but they

771
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:39,480
 won't be up on the structure.

772
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:46,440
 And we also need to think about the fact that allowing solar panels on the front of a historic

773
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,520
 structure or a contributing structure or structure in a historic district sets a precedent.

774
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,260
 It isn't just about this house.

775
00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:58,720
 It sets a precedent for the next person who comes and says, well, you let that house have

776
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:04,080
 solar panels on the front, and they say, well, but it is really set back from the street.

777
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,080
 It doesn't matter.

778
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,200
 It is on the front of the house.

779
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,720
 So you need to think about how that vote, how this decision will affect homeowners in

780
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,800
 the future.

781
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:24,320
 So for all these reasons, I ask that you deny these solar panels as proposed.

782
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,080
 Thank you.

783
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:34,920
 Thank you, Patty.

784
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,880
 If there's anybody else from the public who would like to speak regarding this agenda

785
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,640
 item at this time, you're welcome to come forward.

786
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:45,640
 There is not.

787
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:57,880
 I'm going to go ahead and close the public portion of the meeting.

788
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:05,400
 There's already been some discussion regarding this agenda item if you feel like it is best

789
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,640
 to discuss now.

790
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,960
 We can certainly do so before we have a motion on the floor.

791
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:11,960
 I would like to discuss.

792
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:12,960
 Sure.

793
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:13,960
 Angie?

794
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:21,240
 So I'm going to tell you, I don't know on this, and I'm going to tell you with living

795
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:28,160
 in a home in the historic district, my bills are crazy.

796
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:36,720
 And we've tried to do all of the efficient things that we can, and so I can see where

797
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:42,720
 people want to do this to help to maintain a historic home, to be able to live there.

798
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:45,880
 I mean, financially, it takes a toll.

799
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,360
 We all know that, the upkeep.

800
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,840
 I'm torn with where it is.

801
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,760
 I really wish they could locate it somewhere else, but I understand wanting to do that,

802
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:02,720
 and I hate to be the police on it, but we can actually help people want to be in these

803
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,720
 historic homes.

804
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:12,440
 So the one thing I do know is I don't think how far back on a lot should matter.

805
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,400
 I think if it's visible, it's visible, and I don't think we should take -- that's my

806
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,400
 thought.

807
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,000
 We should not sit that president's at all.

808
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,320
 I think that could come back to bite us.

809
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:27,320
 But really, I would like to hear more discussion, because I'm at a toss-up, because I'm for

810
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,320
 efficiencies.

811
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,320
 Helen?

812
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:34,320
 So I have a few comments on thoughts.

813
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:45,360
 First off, I'm honestly not sure that I think there's another good option for where they

814
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,920
 could go.

815
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:54,000
 We would want them on the south-facing roofs, and there's two of them, one on the garage,

816
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,000
 one on the house.

817
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,040
 We wouldn't want them there, and they haven't put them there, so that's good.

818
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:06,760
 Out on the site, if we were to ask them to put them on a pole on the site, then we run

819
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:17,280
 into the example, a similar example to the one that was shown in the documents that Roman

820
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:24,680
 had, if you can bring that one up, which is in fact, I believe, more detracting than where

821
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,680
 they --

822
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:26,680
 It was denied, yeah.

823
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:32,000
 Yes, it was one of those examples of what not to do, where they're actually in front

824
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,360
 of the house, freestanding.

825
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:42,280
 So not sure that's necessarily an option I would recommend.

826
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:49,920
 I would say that quite a bit of thought has been put into where they've located them.

827
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:56,640
 They have not picked what would be the most -- there you go, that top right image there.

828
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:05,720
 They have not picked the most beneficial from a solar gain standpoint, the locations.

829
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:12,600
 They picked the locations that have put some thought into the aesthetics of the site.

830
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:20,560
 I also think it's commendable to take these sustainable efforts, partly from your perspective

831
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:27,160
 as a homeowner, you know, helping with the bills, but also just for the good of the planet,

832
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,840
 and so I think that's a good thing.

833
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,120
 Those are just some thoughts I have.

834
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:41,360
 I'd like to also say that I do remember when the solar panel issue came up before, and

835
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:47,960
 this is not our first rodeo with the solar panels, and there was a lot of neighbor -- I

836
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:54,320
 remember a lot of neighborhood support for -- especially in the West Oak District for

837
00:50:54,320 --> 00:51:02,680
 the solar panels, and I think you also have to consider if it did go into appeals, would

838
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:13,960
 the council probably deny or accept it, and we have in the past seen that the energy efficiency

839
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:20,440
 of Denton and the community as a whole takes a large -- it's a big precedent.

840
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,400
 I understand not wanting to set a precedent, and I think I even said this last time, I

841
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:31,760
 wish that if the West Oak District does not mind solar panels in the right of way, they

842
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:37,360
 would add it to their ordinance, but we're not there right now, and I do think that we

843
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,960
 have to take all of these things into consideration.

844
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:48,120
 I agree that they've done a really good job being as considerate as they can be regarding

845
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:54,760
 the aesthetics of the solar panels, making them as minimally distracting as possible,

846
00:51:54,760 --> 00:52:00,960
 and we do already have solar panels on the right of way on another house, not far from

847
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,560
 this, in the same district.

848
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,560
 Does anybody else have something to add?

849
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,560
 Mary?

850
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:14,800
 Well, I was on the rodeo last time around, it faced west, the one down the way.

851
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,760
 It was a new house, brand new.

852
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:23,680
 This is probably the second oldest house on Oak and probably one of the top five oldest

853
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:31,120
 houses in Denton, so that weighs heavily on my mind, and I do worry about setting a precedent.

854
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,800
 I'm concerned about cost to run a house.

855
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,040
 I live on Oak Street, but you know what, my highest electric bill has never been more

856
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:44,840
 than $400, and I run the air conditioners like mad, and I have an old house that doesn't

857
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,840
 have all the insulation.

858
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,800
 I just have lath, you know, an old plaster.

859
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,200
 I think that that's not a concern for me.

860
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,800
 Sustainability, yes, I love that term, but sustainability for who?

861
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,600
 As a scientist, I will tell you, we're just pawning off the dirt on some poor little kid

862
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,920
 in South America digging this up.

863
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,840
 It does not sustain that poor child who will probably get cancer from all the horrible

864
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,600
 chemicals he digs up, so please, that's not an excitement for me.

865
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,600
 That it goes on to council is not an excitement for me.

866
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,720
 I think this is a fabulous save.

867
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:19,440
 I love this house, I have loved it from the day I moved into Denton.

868
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,800
 I sort of wish we could divide this up and improve part of the panels and not the rest.

869
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,000
 The only ones that bother me are the ones on the new addition.

870
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,680
 The flat ones don't bother, the ones that are almost flat are almost not visible on

871
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:33,680
 the front.

872
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:34,920
 The ones on the side don't bother me.

873
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,280
 It's the ones on the new addition, I don't know what it's called, I don't know where

874
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:39,280
 it is.

875
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,440
 They are the ones that could easily be seen, and I think that they've done such a thoughtful

876
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,200
 job, if those went away, I would be so happy.

877
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,360
 Because then again, if they don't go away, I'm going to put on solar panels on the front

878
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,480
 of my house because I face south too.

879
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,040
 And everybody else will do that, and I'm not convinced that all of West Oak Historic District

880
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,040
 signed up for this.

881
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,620
 A lot of students who live there may have signed up for it, or renters may have signed

882
00:54:01,620 --> 00:54:04,960
 up for it, but I'm not sure the owners signed up for it.

883
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,600
 Just saying, this has been a bone of contention, oh, we went out and got a petition, but those

884
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,720
 aren't necessarily owners of the property.

885
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,900
 So I am up on a fence because I love this house.

886
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:18,400
 I like the idea of saving personally money.

887
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,480
 I am not excited about sustainability from the point of view of panels.

888
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:27,080
 The chemicals are pretty hard to get, and the appeals are not of importance.

889
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:31,760
 This is the second oldest house on the street, I'm pretty sure, apart from the house across

890
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:32,760
 from my cockpit.

891
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:41,480
 Roy or Kenneth, do you have any considerations that you'd like to share at this time?

892
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,560
 I'm in agreement with Mary about the placement of them.

893
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,920
 The flat ones don't bother me on the porches or anything like that.

894
00:54:48,920 --> 00:55:00,720
 I guess my question would be, would we not get the same energy rating or the same usage

895
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:18,440
 of energy if we got rid of those four or five panels that would face the front?

896
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:19,440
 I mean, that's something to consider.

897
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:20,440
 Roy?

898
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:27,880
 Yeah, my only concern, the panels that are on the east wing facing south, if they could

899
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:36,240
 somehow, the farthest to the right could somehow go on the upper part facing west, I think

900
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:42,720
 you wouldn't see any of these solar panels, very little of it.

901
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:49,120
 That's my only comment, is I might have looked at the feasibility of that.

902
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:50,120
 That's it.

903
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,120
 Okay.

904
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:58,380
 Is there any more discussion that you would like to have?

905
00:55:58,380 --> 00:56:03,440
 Chair, can I make a comment?

906
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:04,440
 Yes.

907
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:05,440
 Roman.

908
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,240
 I just, with all due respect, I think with respect to the standards, Patty brought up

909
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:16,080
 the, as a certified local government, the city of Denton must apply the standards.

910
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,800
 As far as I understand it, as a certified local government, there is a lot that's required

911
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:26,600
 and namely it's that we have a preservation ordinance, that we have a preservation officer

912
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,680
 and there's a pretty long, there's a long list of requirements, but that we specifically

913
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:36,000
 apply the standards, as far as I know, that is not a requirement.

914
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:43,600
 But even if we did, I think going back to this first slide and just, does the installation

915
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:49,840
 negatively impact the character of the property or I guess it's somewhere in the district

916
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:55,480
 and I just don't see how, if you're looking at it, the character of this specific building

917
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:01,920
 and the way that you see it and its architectural integrity and then the district as a whole.

918
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:06,320
 That's why I recommended the approval.

919
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:14,680
 But going back to Commissioner Anderson, Mary's concern, if I'm not mistaken, the petition

920
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,440
 that was signed was everyone in the district and I don't think those were students.

921
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:24,760
 I know because the fellow who did that is an attorney and he's very diligent and I remember

922
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,680
 he offered to show that to me, so I'm pretty sure that he worked very hard.

923
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:29,680
 He's an attorney.

924
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:30,680
 It took a long time.

925
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:36,160
 He spent a lot of time to go and get those so that when he went to city council, he had

926
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,160
 the whole district.

927
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,480
 So when you create a district, there's a lot of those people right in that neighborhood.

928
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,320
 So those two points I wanted to make, well, I'll do respect.

929
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,320
 Thank you.

930
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,520
 When I was at that meeting, he did not agree that they were all owners.

931
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:59,120
 I remember asking that question very specifically.

932
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,280
 Okay.

933
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:03,720
 There's no more discuss.

934
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:17,920
 I think we're ready to hear a motion.

935
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:18,920
 Chair, if I can offer some suggestions.

936
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:19,920
 Absolutely.

937
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,680
 The options that are offered to the commission is that there is an approval subject to conditions.

938
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:34,120
 So if the motion includes a condition that can be provided as well.

939
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,120
 Okay.

940
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:40,680
 If I can add on to that, I know that there were some questions that were asked about

941
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:47,440
 would the panels be flat and you got the answer that they would match the roof pitch.

942
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,720
 You might want to incorporate that into your requirement if that's what you intend because

943
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,960
 it's not specific from the application itself.

944
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:56,960
 Okay.

945
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:04,080
 I think it's a complicated motion.

946
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,000
 I don't know.

947
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:13,840
 I move we approve COA 18-0001 as offered.

948
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,840
 Okay.

949
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,840
 Does Roy have a second?

950
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,440
 I second it.

951
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,880
 Thank you, Kenneth, for your second.

952
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:26,840
 All right.

953
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,960
 We have a motion on the table.

954
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:33,960
 If you would like to discuss this any further, this is an opportunity.

955
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,240
 Any questions regarding how the motion is made?

956
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,920
 Okay.

957
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:45,480
 If not, we can go ahead and take a vote.

958
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:46,920
 Can I ask a question at this point?

959
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:47,920
 Absolutely, Roy.

960
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:48,920
 Okay.

961
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,760
 So where does this if we vote and it's approved?

962
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,120
 That's pretty obvious where it goes.

963
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:58,920
 If we vote and it's denied, then they start the process over again?

964
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:04,640
 Or is this a point where we talk about, okay, well, how do you take this and approve subject

965
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:10,000
 to conditions because I could friendly change my motion to include that, I believe.

966
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:19,400
 You can deny with condition -- so you can deny with approval to resubmit within a smaller

967
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,280
 amount of time.

968
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,720
 You can also approve with conditions.

969
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:35,320
 So if you say with the condition that the panels match the pitch of the roof and don't

970
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:41,640
 exceed so many inches off of the roof line, you can do that.

971
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,400
 Or that aren't on the east side wing.

972
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:46,960
 You could say that as well.

973
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,360
 However, I would be cautious to do that if the solar studies show that they're trying

974
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,440
 to maximize potential by not putting them on the south side, which would be where they

975
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,960
 can maximize the potential of the solar panels.

976
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:06,000
 I do believe he said that the west side was actually better after 12 noon.

977
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,040
 That's what he said.

978
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,240
 Afternoon he got more sunlight than he got from the south-facing windows.

979
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:13,240
 Chair?

980
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,240
 Yes, Ron.

981
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:21,400
 Chair, if you can just clarify for me, if the motion that's on the table does not get

982
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,560
 the votes, that does not deny the application or does it?

983
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:34,080
 If it does not get the votes, then it is either open for another motion or denies it.

984
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,000
 I assume you were asked a question of me rather than the chair.

985
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,000
 Yes, chair.

986
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,000
 If the --

987
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:40,000
 Where's Jerry?

988
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,000
 I'm sorry.

989
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,000
 You said Jerry.

990
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,000
 I thought you said chair.

991
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,000
 Me too.

992
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,320
 I was like, I think that's more of a Jerry question.

993
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:55,280
 If that motion does not pass, then you turn the motion around and ask it the other way

994
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:02,640
 around or make a different motion or what have you, but you need to ask for a motion

995
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,640
 that carries through.

996
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:10,160
 So we can vote on this one now.

997
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:11,160
 All right.

998
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:20,160
 Right now we have a motion made by Roy, seconded by Kenneth to approve the COA as is.

999
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,280
 All those in favor, please say aye.

1000
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:23,280
 Aye.

1001
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,320
 That is Roy, Kenneth.

1002
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:36,340
 Please show with a raise of hands, Roy, Kenneth, Helen, Alyssa, for approval.

1003
01:02:36,340 --> 01:02:38,440
 All those opposed, please say nay.

1004
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,440
 Nay.

1005
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:44,760
 And that is Mary and Angie to deny.

1006
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,440
 The ayes have it.

1007
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,800
 Thank you.

1008
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,920
 Let's go.

1009
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:52,920
 Mr. Fetti.

1010
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,480
 Dan, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

1011
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:56,480
 Thank you.

1012
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:57,480
 Sorry.

1013
01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:58,480
 D also?

1014
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:59,480
 No, we did not.

1015
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:00,480
 That was separate.

1016
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:01,480
 No.

1017
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:02,480
 D is a separate motion.

1018
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:08,600
 But, I mean, Mr. Fetti, I didn't know if he was the contractor or --

1019
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,920
 No, he's not the contractor for that.

1020
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:19,560
 Jerry, just for point of clarification, Jerry, this is a commission of nine.

1021
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,160
 Does four carry?

1022
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,160
 That's my question.

1023
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,120
 What is a quorum for this vote?

1024
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,120
 Five.

1025
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,120
 I did not bring my --

1026
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:31,640
 I'm not sure that we made the quorum for the vote, by the way, but that's fine.

1027
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:33,600
 I think you probably did.

1028
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,200
 I will have to refer back to my code.

1029
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,200
 Can we take a five-minute recess?

1030
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,200
 We absolutely can.

1031
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:39,200
 Thank you.

1032
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:40,200
 Thank you.

1033
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:41,200
 Thank you.

1034
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:42,200
 Somebody better find out.

1035
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:43,200
 Okay.

1036
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:48,960
 Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to call this meeting back to order.

1037
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:49,960
 Jerry is back.

1038
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:50,960
 Thank you, Mr. Drake.

1039
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:51,960
 He's done.

1040
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,960
 We are ready to hear your answer.

1041
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:54,960
 All right.

1042
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:00,360
 Fortunately, the question is very clearly and definitively answered in the Denson Development

1043
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,200
 Code, Section 35.4.3.1, Operational Procedures.

1044
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,480
 It says, "The Historic Landmark Commission shall meet its office necessary to dispose

1045
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,960
 of the business.

1046
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:19,280
 Five members present shall constitute a quorum for transaction of business, and all issues

1047
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:25,800
 shall be decided by a majority of those members present and voting, except that in those instances

1048
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:32,000
 where only a quorum of five is present at a meeting, all issues shall be decided by

1049
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,360
 at least four affirmative votes."

1050
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:36,760
 That's the relevant part.

1051
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,680
 So we got it.

1052
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,040
 The motion passes.

1053
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,040
 Yes.

1054
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,040
 Thank you so much.

1055
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,200
 Dan, thank you so much for running back.

1056
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,520
 We appreciate your resiliency.

1057
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,560
 It is freezing.

1058
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:51,200
 All right.

1059
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:59,000
 So sticking with the theme of the night, solar panels, let's move on to agenda item 2D, to

1060
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:03,360
 hold a public meeting and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness in accordance

1061
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:11,960
 with the Section 35.7.6.8.8 to install solar panels on the garage located at 723 West Oak

1062
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:12,960
 Street.

1063
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,240
 The address is located on the south side of West Oak between Denton Street and Mounts

1064
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:18,240
 Avenue.

1065
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,240
 All right.

1066
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,400
 And does this have an additional presentation, Roman?

1067
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:24,680
 No, it doesn't.

1068
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:25,680
 Okay.

1069
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,600
 Can you do me a favor?

1070
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:34,560
 Can you pull up the pictures specific -- yep, that's what I wanted to see and the one that

1071
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:40,360
 I believe is right before it as you're driving up, okay?

1072
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,840
 So I start out with a couple of straight shots of the building here.

1073
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:44,840
 Wonderful.

1074
01:05:44,840 --> 01:06:01,160
 And, you know, really, there's a -- if you make a pie shape between -- if you were the

1075
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:02,160
 panel and you're looking at it, when is the public going to see you?

1076
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,160
 You know, somewhere over here to somewhere over here, you're going to see -- there's

1077
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,080
 like a 30-foot or maybe it's 40-foot wide window where you would see.

1078
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,800
 So now you're coming up the street.

1079
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,680
 You wouldn't see those panels here or there.

1080
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,080
 You probably still wouldn't see the panel.

1081
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,360
 You might start to see the edge of the panel.

1082
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:17,360
 The profile?

1083
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:26,600
 You would see the little edge there, the black, dark edge, and then -- well, and you would

1084
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,360
 again see it some more as you went across.

1085
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,840
 So that's what they're asking for there.

1086
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:32,840
 Thank you so much, Roman.

1087
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:34,240
 On an accessory, you know, dwelling.

1088
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:40,760
 It's not necessarily the main dwelling and that's why I'd again recommend -- to me, when

1089
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,800
 I think about the standards, you know, there's all those famous sayings, you know something

1090
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:49,960
 when you see it, whatever those things are, and -- but, you know, you know something when

1091
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:55,680
 you see it if it was, you know, really affecting this overall experience of this structure.

1092
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:56,680
 Okay.

1093
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,680
 Can I ask you a question?

1094
01:06:58,680 --> 01:06:59,680
 Roy, absolutely.

1095
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:00,680
 Yes, sorry.

1096
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:01,680
 Thank you.

1097
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:06,160
 The picture that included with our material shows that the panels are on the east-facing

1098
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:07,640
 roof line of the garage.

1099
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:09,200
 Oh, did I get -- oh, my goodness.

1100
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,280
 Did you get your directions wrong?

1101
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,280
 It sure is on the east side.

1102
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,000
 Let me redo that PowerPoint for you real quick.

1103
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,000
 Let's step back.

1104
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,040
 Well, there -- it's not that much difference.

1105
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,280
 There it is, except it is --

1106
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:22,280
 You see a lot more on there.

1107
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:23,280
 You see a lot more.

1108
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:24,280
 Yeah, you see a lot more.

1109
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:25,280
 You drive up.

1110
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:26,280
 There.

1111
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,280
 There's your window.

1112
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:28,280
 So it is different.

1113
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,680
 As long as West Oak remains one way westbound, I'm sorry, I'm just holding this there.

1114
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:40,200
 I would just like to say, at the moment that the -- hold on.

1115
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,360
 Yeah, because there's the street up here.

1116
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:46,360
 There's the house.

1117
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:47,360
 Yeah, because there's the house.

1118
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:48,360
 So it's on the other --

1119
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:58,360
 Maybe they're going to recharge the battery on the Airstream.

1120
01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:59,920
 Which brings up a question.

1121
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:01,400
 Why are they on that side?

1122
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:10,080
 Well, it doesn't say in the -- oh, I'm looking at the wrong one.

1123
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:16,560
 Well, and I, unfortunately, don't have the contractor here or the owner here for that.

1124
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:25,240
 I did make them aware of the meeting as a partial model.

1125
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:31,640
 There is a site plan in the back up, sheet PV-2.

1126
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,840
 That's what they're looking at.

1127
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:35,840
 Yeah.

1128
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:36,840
 And then the --

1129
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:37,840
 It shows the proposal.

1130
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:38,840
 Uh-huh.

1131
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:39,840
 It sure is.

1132
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,840
 Okay.

1133
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,040
 I will say that wouldn't change -- you know, believe it or not, for me, that just wouldn't

1134
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:47,040
 change my recommendation.

1135
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:51,800
 Y'all have to, of course, make your decision, but I still wouldn't feel it would be worry

1136
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:52,800
 of a --

1137
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:57,320
 I mean, it doesn't -- oh, I see, right, it does face east.

1138
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:58,320
 Uh-huh.

1139
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:03,320
 Can you go to the overall site -- the Google or Shutter, probably?

1140
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:04,320
 Yeah, sure.

1141
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:05,320
 Let's see.

1142
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:06,320
 We'll go down over here.

1143
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:07,320
 723.

1144
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:22,360
 Yes, that is on the east, but with a little panel on the west is what it looks like.

1145
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:32,880
 I mean, if you're looking at the site plan, yes.

1146
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:33,880
 Yeah, I am.

1147
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:35,380
 I just can't believe they put it there.

1148
01:09:35,380 --> 01:09:37,720
 I mean, if that's what its maximum efficiency --

1149
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:43,400
 But then I'm less than -- I'm much less excited if it faces east, because you can see it coming

1150
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:44,400
 down oak, if that's true.

1151
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:45,400
 Show me your picture, Ron.

1152
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:46,400
 It's not.

1153
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:47,400
 Uh-huh.

1154
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:48,400
 Yeah.

1155
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:49,400
 West is fine.

1156
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:50,400
 I have no problem facing west.

1157
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:51,400
 I'd be excited.

1158
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:58,360
 You know, the -- in that context, though, and just thinking about will -- I don't often

1159
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,720
 think this way, but will West Oak always be one way?

1160
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:06,600
 I mean, to me, it's kind of half a dozen one-way, six the other in 50 years or whatever.

1161
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:14,480
 Didn't they move to one way in the 1960s, maybe?

1162
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:23,960
 When did they move to one-way streets, because they were not always?

1163
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:38,540
 They talk about periodically about going back to the two-way, but I just keep -- I mean,

1164
01:10:38,540 --> 01:10:39,540
 maybe slow down with traffic.

1165
01:10:39,540 --> 01:10:40,540
 Oh, by the way, if you're driving down oak, our friends over here would chip out, there's

1166
01:10:40,540 --> 01:10:41,540
 some media every so often to get you going 50.

1167
01:10:41,540 --> 01:10:42,540
 Oh.

1168
01:10:42,540 --> 01:10:43,540
 Yeah.

1169
01:10:43,540 --> 01:10:48,400
 If you're thinking of denying it, then maybe we could table it until I give them an opportunity

1170
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,700
 to respond, just letting you know that that could happen, too.

1171
01:10:53,700 --> 01:11:03,960
 I still really just -- I don't have a problem with it.

1172
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:11,400
 Driving up, it's not what you're looking at.

1173
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,120
 Would it be less visible?

1174
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,700
 Perhaps if you had it towards the rear.

1175
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:24,480
 There's 12 bays of panels here if you omitted the six closest to the street and had six

1176
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:27,480
 on either side of the roof toward the rear.

1177
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:32,360
 If I'm looking at this picture, I don't know that removing six at the front is going to

1178
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:36,360
 make that big of a difference if you're standing at this specific angle.

1179
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:43,360
 However, that being said, as someone who -- and I've said it before, I'll say it again.

1180
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,160
 I love walking in this neighborhood.

1181
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,360
 I walk and run in this neighborhood all the time.

1182
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:57,240
 I'm never looking at auxiliary structures, very rarely.

1183
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,960
 You know, even walking by, your focus is on the main portion of the house and the houses

1184
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,200
 around it.

1185
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:13,840
 And, again, does it change the historical character of the home having a small panel

1186
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,840
 present?

1187
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,880
 A panel on the garage.

1188
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:27,560
 No, this one is just all on the garage.

1189
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,560
 That's what I'm saying.

1190
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:30,560
 It's not on the main house.

1191
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:31,560
 It's not on the part closest to the street.

1192
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:39,480
 I mean, I'm glad I don't look across the street, but that's somebody else to look at.

1193
01:12:39,480 --> 01:12:45,760
 I don't think I'd like to look at it every day.

1194
01:12:45,760 --> 01:13:06,080
 But if you face it west, I don't know how you'd ever see it.

1195
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:13,040
 My question is -- my preference would be to continue the item because my question for

1196
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,360
 the builder is, why isn't it on the west?

1197
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,800
 Because if it's as good for him as the east --

1198
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:28,040
 I doubt that they would put it on the east side in the proposal if it could have been

1199
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,920
 on the west side because it is less visible by the west.

1200
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,720
 Could be a tree issue here.

1201
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:34,720
 These are real tall.

1202
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:35,720
 I'm not sure of that lot.

1203
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:36,720
 Could be it.

1204
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:44,560
 It would be interesting to see if he could maximize it, like Jerry was saying, put half

1205
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,880
 on each side so you get the full orbit.

1206
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:49,880
 But we don't have --

1207
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:57,480
 If we approve it on just to put the solar panels on the garage and we don't specify

1208
01:13:57,480 --> 01:14:00,560
 a side, does that not open it up for it to allow him?

1209
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:04,840
 What I'm saying is, does it matter to us which side it's really on?

1210
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:05,840
 That's a good question.

1211
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:10,840
 Can we just say on the garage?

1212
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:21,800
 I mean, the COA, as I read it, says to install solar panels on the garage.

1213
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:22,800
 That's what it says.

1214
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:30,280
 Now, that also comes with the site plan, but if you want to approve it on the garage and

1215
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:38,400
 give them room to put it on either the east or the west with Roman's approval or the HBO's

1216
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,320
 administrative approval, we can do that.

1217
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,120
 I don't see why it would matter.

1218
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:46,040
 We just approve one facing the street so who cares?

1219
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,480
 Are we ready for a motion?

1220
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:53,240
 The only thing is, as far as having the site plan there, I think you would have to make

1221
01:14:53,240 --> 01:15:03,040
 it clear that the motion is disregarding the site plan in the application and just saying

1222
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:08,220
 that the approval is on the garage, if that's what your intention is.

1223
01:15:08,220 --> 01:15:10,280
 On either the east or the west.

1224
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:12,880
 So you could clarify that in a motion.

1225
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:14,480
 Does anybody else have any discussion?

1226
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:15,960
 I'm ready to make a motion.

1227
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:16,960
 Okay.

1228
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:17,960
 All right.

1229
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:29,880
 We approve item COA18-0009 to install solar panels on the garage located at 723 West Oak

1230
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:39,060
 Street and that we discard the site plan and that it could go by staff, whether it's on

1231
01:15:39,060 --> 01:15:42,440
 the east or west side.

1232
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:43,440
 Disregard the site plan.

1233
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:49,440
 Where it's depicted on the roof, there are some technical standards on the site plan

1234
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,440
 that you might want to incorporate.

1235
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:52,440
 Right.

1236
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:53,440
 On which side of the roof.

1237
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:57,960
 Disregard the site plan on which side of the roof it is to be installed, but to still

1238
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:00,400
 go by the specifications.

1239
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:01,560
 Okay.

1240
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,520
 Thank you so much for your motion, Angie.

1241
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:04,520
 Does she have a second?

1242
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:05,960
 I second the motion.

1243
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:09,360
 Thank you, Helen, for your second.

1244
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:13,160
 Is there any other discussion to be had now that we have a motion on the floor?

1245
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:17,240
 If we're ready to take a vote, I'm ready to call for one.

1246
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,080
 All those in favor, please say aye.

1247
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:20,080
 Aye.

1248
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,400
 Please show me with a raise of your hands.

1249
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:23,400
 Thank you.

1250
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:30,040
 Mary, Angie, Kenneth, Helen, and Alyssa all approve.

1251
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,960
 All those opposed, please say nay.

1252
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:33,960
 Nay.

1253
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:34,960
 Roy?

1254
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:35,960
 Denied.

1255
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:40,640
 That is a five-to-one vote.

1256
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:42,680
 The ayes have it.

1257
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,760
 Thank you all for your votes.

1258
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,400
 All right.

1259
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:52,240
 Roy, I know that you have another meeting that it is very important for you to attend.

1260
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:58,600
 If you need to do so now and catch up on any of the roles and responsibilities with Roman

1261
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,360
 at a later date, you are welcome to go.

1262
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:04,360
 Thank you so much.

1263
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:17,400
 All right, Ron, the next agenda item is all you, sir, discuss the roles and responsibilities

1264
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:18,720
 of the Historic Landmark Commission.

1265
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,160
 I'm going to defer that to Roman.

1266
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:27,000
 Maybe we should have started with this.

1267
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:28,000
 Okay.

1268
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:29,000
 Yeah, maybe.

1269
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:30,000
 All right.

1270
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,600
 Let me see if I can get through it.

1271
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:34,880
 That's not the presentation, Roman.

1272
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,360
 Oh, we're doing the -- We're not on DDC, Roman.

1273
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:39,360
 Come on.

1274
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:40,360
 Where are we, sir?

1275
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:41,360
 There we go.

1276
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:42,360
 We're on the HLC presentation.

1277
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,360
 Oh, yes.

1278
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:44,360
 Responsibilities of the HLC.

1279
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:45,360
 Thank you, Ron.

1280
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:46,360
 You did tell me.

1281
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:47,360
 We're ready for that.

1282
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:48,360
 Yeah.

1283
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,840
 And I'm -- we're going to have to start ordering dinner around here, Ron.

1284
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:51,840
 We're keeping people late.

1285
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:52,840
 I don't know.

1286
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:53,840
 We did that before.

1287
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,920
 I don't remember when we first met.

1288
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,400
 We had to because we had, like, four-hour-long meetings.

1289
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:02,640
 Since I've been here, we had them pretty short.

1290
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:03,960
 Well, I'll try to speak quickly.

1291
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:04,960
 Issues not on the agenda.

1292
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:05,960
 You've been here.

1293
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:06,960
 You've been here.

1294
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:07,960
 Right.

1295
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:08,960
 Thank you.

1296
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:09,960
 I'm sorry.

1297
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:11,480
 We have two new members and three members who are more familiar.

1298
01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:13,660
 So this is going to look familiar to most of you.

1299
01:18:13,660 --> 01:18:15,680
 So I just stripped this down to the basics.

1300
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:23,840
 Tonight we did supply a Manuel's binder of the historic landmark commission.

1301
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,760
 That's actually supposed to be a manual.

1302
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:31,000
 And I still don't know if I would have spelled it right, even if I had noticed it, but didn't

1303
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:32,040
 know it looked weird.

1304
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:33,040
 So we have that.

1305
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:37,680
 And in there, the current code responsibilities in the landmark commission are in there.

1306
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:42,600
 But if you really synthesize it down, nine members, two years staggered, meets once a

1307
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:48,200
 month or as necessary, meetings may be called by the chair or by a simple majority of the

1308
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:55,360
 landmark commission to address something, the HLC makes recommendations on certificates

1309
01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:01,360
 of appropriateness that are not ordinary maintenance or minor exterior alterations.

1310
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:05,680
 The in general, the code has some fancy language that says the historic landmark commission

1311
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:10,640
 shall thoroughly familiarize itself with building structures, sites, districts, areas, and lands

1312
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:15,160
 within the city, which may be eligible for designation as historic landmarks.

1313
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:18,920
 I synthesize that down to look out for the historic resources in Denton.

1314
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:20,600
 That's the bottom line.

1315
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:26,840
 Establish criteria for determination of local landmarks and for approving C of A's.

1316
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:32,400
 And then there's these reasons that these are the codified reasons to deny a certificate

1317
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,000
 of appropriateness.

1318
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,720
 And they're still similar to the standards.

1319
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:42,960
 The exterior architectural features of the landmark should not be negatively affected,

1320
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:47,300
 the district as a whole, and the future preservation of that landmark.

1321
01:19:47,300 --> 01:19:52,280
 The only place that we reference this is just coincidental to our conversation tonight,

1322
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:58,760
 the Secretary of Interior's standards were codified as part of an appendix to the creation

1323
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,480
 of the Bell Avenue Conservation District.

1324
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:07,040
 So the preservation ordinance in the city of Denton's have been moving closer and closer

1325
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,360
 to the national standard.

1326
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:15,000
 We didn't ever mention them, and then we mentioned them in the last district that was created.

1327
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:19,800
 And when the code that Ron is going to talk about later is adopted, there we actually

1328
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:25,440
 specify that the standards should be a guiding principle of decisions.

1329
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:28,240
 So there's sort of been this evolution.

1330
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:34,680
 Finally, there's an article here, I don't need to bring it up, and there's a city lab

1331
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:41,840
 article I found on solar panels, and it talks about what you experienced here in these discussions.

1332
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:46,720
 That it's not an easy question to answer, but I like the quote in that article, and

1333
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:52,720
 it was that the author had written about both preservationists and environmentalists, and

1334
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:58,920
 that they should be careful in asserting their rights and remedies, lest the public lose

1335
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,400
 confidence in the cause.

1336
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,620
 And that's important as we try to protect our national registered district, as we try

1337
01:21:05,620 --> 01:21:09,520
 to create new districts, as we create local landmarks.

1338
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,480
 We have to keep that big picture is what I always advocate for.

1339
01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:20,240
 But the booklet has several sections in there, the all of historic resource survey properties

1340
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:28,000
 are listed, the historic preservation ordinance as written is there, and so you can always

1341
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,400
 go to that.

1342
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:36,920
 And then those will have to bring you an updated one soon when you get to what Ron is going

1343
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:37,920
 to talk to you about.

1344
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,480
 Any questions about that?

1345
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:43,480
 Okay, that's all I have on that.

1346
01:21:43,480 --> 01:21:47,200
 Thank you, Roman.

1347
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,160
 Any questions?

1348
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:50,640
 Great.

1349
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:57,320
 We can move on.

1350
01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:09,360
 Madam Chair, we're going to go out of order.

1351
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:14,120
 I actually request that the next item, which is the training video, that we postpone that

1352
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:15,120
 to the next meeting.

1353
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:16,120
 Absolutely.

1354
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,720
 We are working on updating that and want to make sure that we present the most updated

1355
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:24,000
 version of that video.

1356
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,240
 Since there are some new members not present, it would probably be best that we wait until

1357
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:28,240
 they are present.

1358
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:29,240
 I agree.

1359
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,480
 We should postpone that and move it to the next.

1360
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:39,840
 So the next item on the agenda is an update to the DDC update status.

1361
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:44,240
 I wanted to make sure that the HLC was given an opportunity to at least know what's going

1362
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:45,240
 on with the DDC update.

1363
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:51,240
 It's a big effort that affects obviously this commission as well as other commissions that

1364
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:56,320
 are working as far as development is concerned in the city.

1365
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:01,840
 Just real quick, the agenda that I will cover briefly is where we are, what the purpose

1366
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:07,200
 is of where we are, some of the policy decisions that a committee made up of three council

1367
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:11,960
 members and three planning zoning commissioners have been considering as part of this DDC

1368
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:12,960
 update.

1369
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:18,520
 A real quick summary of the subchapters that are moving forward as well as how we've been

1370
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:23,560
 reaching out to the community in regards to the draft zoning map and then what our next

1371
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:28,880
 steps are in regards to the next draft as well as when we are scheduled to take it to

1372
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:33,440
 the planning zoning commission and city council.

1373
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:40,360
 The purpose is just to meet the vision of the DemPlan 2030, really is to develop and

1374
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,640
 look into making sure we have responsible and quality development throughout the city.

1375
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:50,040
 We've got a list of common themes but really just to be more customer friendly and also

1376
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,680
 protect our neighborhoods as well.

1377
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:57,160
 So we started this effort back in June of 2017.

1378
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,880
 We've held numerous public open houses.

1379
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:03,720
 We again have been meeting with the development code review community.

1380
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:11,060
 This is the DCRC held public open houses soon after that as well when we first published

1381
01:24:11,060 --> 01:24:16,400
 our public draft and then since then we've been meeting with a number of stakeholders

1382
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:22,240
 and other meetings as well with the neighborhoods and attending a lot of the community market

1383
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,760
 as well to get the word out.

1384
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:30,200
 So the committee has been meeting on a various number of topics.

1385
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:36,360
 This is just a summary of the high level ones that they've considered, looking at allowed

1386
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:43,840
 lane uses, basically very development oriented with regards to what proposed uses are permitted,

1387
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,080
 how big and what their dimensional standards are.

1388
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:54,600
 We also have been discussing ESA, environmental sensitive areas, the development review process

1389
01:24:54,600 --> 01:25:02,840
 and of course the zoning map and zoning districts which is a big part of the development code.

1390
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:10,840
 The subchapters that we are proposing to have with the new draft are of the following.

1391
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:18,920
 We currently have 24 subchapters in the current development code and you can see we're narrowing

1392
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:23,800
 that down to eight which is quite an effort.

1393
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,360
 Most of that is going to go into, most of the current subchapters is going to go to

1394
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:32,840
 subchapter six which is the development standards, basically taking all the different subchapters

1395
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:36,840
 and putting them into that proposed subchapter.

1396
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:42,820
 So total 24 now and we're going to bring it down to eight.

1397
01:25:42,820 --> 01:25:46,840
 Subchapter one is really just your general provisions that contains your purpose, your

1398
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:52,840
 applicability, the enforcement and just really how we're going to transition from one code

1399
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:53,840
 to the other.

1400
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,160
 So again general provisions.

1401
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:59,060
 Chapter two is your administrative and procedures.

1402
01:25:59,060 --> 01:26:04,360
 This big change here is there's going to be a table with all the types of application

1403
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:10,920
 which includes COAs and this will have a better presentation as far as how things proceed

1404
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,300
 through the development review process.

1405
01:26:13,300 --> 01:26:16,960
 So this is an important chapter.

1406
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:22,340
 Again it talks about how things are processed through the city.

1407
01:26:22,340 --> 01:26:24,280
 Chapter three is our zoning districts.

1408
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:28,580
 This will include the zoning districts that are being proposed.

1409
01:26:28,580 --> 01:26:31,760
 We currently have 28 zoning districts.

1410
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,200
 Don't have a map here with me but as you can imagine there's a number of zoning districts

1411
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:40,920
 that we either don't use our duplications of other zoning districts or try to clean

1412
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:41,920
 it up.

1413
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:47,280
 We're going from 24, I'm sorry 28 down to 14 so almost half.

1414
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,960
 That can be a little scary because it is a change of what we currently have but we feel

1415
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:58,520
 that it is something that we need to do in order to better serve the community.

1416
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:03,800
 In this zoning or this subchapter there is a purpose statement for each zoning district

1417
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:10,180
 as well as the dimensional standards that are associated with each zoning district.

1418
01:27:10,180 --> 01:27:13,880
 These are the zoning district in green being proposed.

1419
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:17,720
 As you can see the middle column here is what we currently have.

1420
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:24,840
 There's a lot more like I said roughly 28 and we're going to go down to 14.

1421
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,080
 The residential we didn't want to change much with regards to residential.

1422
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,080
 The zoning as you see here is just really changing its name.

1423
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:36,680
 For example NR1 will be R1, NR2 will be R2.

1424
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:41,200
 Where you'll see more changes are the ones that are being combined.

1425
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:47,800
 The DR1, DR2, RCR1, RCR2 are now going to be referred to or proposed to be referred

1426
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:50,440
 to as R7.

1427
01:27:50,440 --> 01:27:58,040
 The other big changes the DCN and DCG combined to MD and so on and so forth that you see

1428
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,040
 on this table.

1429
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:07,600
 So before I leave this table do you all have any questions so far on the zoning districts?

1430
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:14,480
 Downtown compatibility area is the area surrounding the downtown.

1431
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:19,360
 Basically the core is what we refer to as our downtown implementation area.

1432
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:25,080
 Parkway to the north, Carroll, Exposition and Scripture is your core.

1433
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,080
 Everything surrounding that area is what we call the compatibility area.

1434
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:37,880
 >> And is there any delineation for like up to four dwelling units is that like duplexes

1435
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,320
 and quads are all in it?

1436
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:46,480
 >> That is more or less the density dwelling use per acre so I felt--

1437
01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:50,960
 >> So delineation between the male and between those types, okay.

1438
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:51,960
 >> Right.

1439
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:54,040
 The uses are presented in each zone.

1440
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:59,200
 I felt to mention this is actually our future lane use designation that's in our DIN plan

1441
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:00,960
 2030.

1442
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:07,480
 These are a little bit higher elevated, you know, looking into the city, I'd say at 35,000.

1443
01:29:07,480 --> 01:29:09,400
 The zoning is really what's on the ground.

1444
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:15,640
 So this just gives the city guidance on what sort of development should occur.

1445
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:20,900
 So we go from rural all the way down to industrial in this spectrum.

1446
01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:27,080
 And so the zoning is matched that as well from really low intensity to more intensity

1447
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:29,160
 with the ICG.

1448
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:34,320
 Well we're all-- what actually transfers over is the zoning districts that is being proposed.

1449
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:41,000
 You've got rural residential all the way down to high or heavy industrial that you see here.

1450
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,960
 So really trying to keep it really simple.

1451
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:44,960
 >> Dwelling unit?

1452
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:45,960
 >> Dwelling unit.

1453
01:29:45,960 --> 01:30:00,000
 [ Inaudible Remark ]

1454
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:05,560
 >> In that particular case, it's the unit itself, the door that opens to the unit and that can

1455
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:07,320
 include multiple bedrooms.

1456
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:15,880
 So living space, kitchen, and those four, say four or three or four, right, those constitute

1457
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:22,480
 as a unit.

1458
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:28,200
 Subchapter four is the overlay districts and that is where you'll see the historic districts

1459
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:34,080
 that Roman has referred to and which we know actually exists.

1460
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:38,440
 The Oak-- Hickory, the Bell Avenue as well as the West Oak Historic Districts.

1461
01:30:38,440 --> 01:30:43,520
 So these will carry over to the new proposed code.

1462
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:50,280
 I know that Roman has also made some changes to the administrative, more of a cleanup.

1463
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:53,460
 Those also will be carried forward.

1464
01:30:53,460 --> 01:30:55,800
 Those proposed changes came to the HLC.

1465
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,160
 Geez, how long ago was that?

1466
01:30:58,160 --> 01:30:59,440
 >> A year.

1467
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:07,920
 >> Over a year ago, we decided to not go straight to amending the code and wanted to wait till

1468
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:13,680
 this code was being considered so we're just carrying all those proposed changes that Roman

1469
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:18,200
 shared with the commission as part of this DDC update.

1470
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:32,440
 >> Okay, so one of the-- a year ago, the downtown area lost a large part of one side of the

1471
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:39,400
 prominent square which was a part of not just the proposed changes to the downtown area

1472
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:44,880
 but to help make sure that whatever goes there next does have to follow in that character.

1473
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:51,080
 Is there any-- I guess that I-- in some way, I feel like while that land hasn't been--

1474
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:56,800
 it hasn't changed hands in ownership or anything like that to my knowledge, I just wonder if

1475
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:01,440
 there's any urgency in getting that portion of it.

1476
01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:02,440
 >> Thank you for asking that question.

1477
01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:09,800
 There is a downtown design standard that is-- and you heard from Scott McDonald.

1478
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,600
 That is actually going to be moving forward sooner than later.

1479
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:21,080
 They will not-- that portion of that proposed design standards is actually moving to the

1480
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:24,240
 planning zoning commission city council before this development code update.

1481
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:25,240
 >> Okay.

1482
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:26,240
 >> Yes.

1483
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:27,240
 >> That's what I wanted to know.

1484
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:28,240
 >> Yes.

1485
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:29,240
 >> Thank you.

1486
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:30,240
 >> Yes.

1487
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:31,240
 >> That's--

1488
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:32,240
 >> I have only-- that's great.

1489
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:33,240
 I'm--

1490
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:34,240
 >> Yes.

1491
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:35,240
 >> Mary.

1492
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,400
 >> Have the overlays changed in their character in between the two data?

1493
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:43,720
 >> No, they're just going to be-- they're just carried over to the new code, proposed

1494
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:44,720
 code.

1495
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:47,720
 >> And given the-- I have a major concern on SROs.

1496
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:48,720
 >> Right.

1497
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:49,720
 >> Single residence occupancy.

1498
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:50,720
 >> Single residency occupancy.

1499
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:59,720
 The current new student housing plan for Denton or when they finally decide they're not coming

1500
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:06,400
 to campus and turn into the transient buildings, I am not happy with all the SROs.

1501
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:08,840
 >> No.

1502
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:09,840
 Thanks for bringing that up.

1503
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:17,120
 That is also a very high topic issue that we are dealing with the Oak Gateway Steering

1504
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:18,120
 Committee.

1505
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:22,720
 We are also-- we also have discussed it with the Development Code Review Committee.

1506
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:28,400
 We are proposing or we are having a work session with city council on December 4th regarding

1507
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:30,440
 this matter.

1508
01:33:30,440 --> 01:33:35,200
 Staff has some recommendations but that too is a very important issue that we need to

1509
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:44,600
 address and if and when we have direction, it will be folded into this code update.

1510
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:50,960
 Use regulations, this basically tells us where uses are permitted in each zoning district

1511
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:55,360
 and if there are any specific standards that apply to each use.

1512
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:02,400
 Again, very more elaborate number of uses are being proposed to kind of cover those

1513
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,640
 that are not currently listed in the DDC.

1514
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:10,680
 Again, what we're trying to do is trying to make sure that we address all the issues that

1515
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:17,280
 we've had in the past through this code update and this is one of those zoning district or

1516
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:22,600
 subchapters that will include some of those additional changes.

1517
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:28,960
 Chapter 6, as I mentioned earlier, will now include all of this areas here or all these

1518
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:30,280
 topics here.

1519
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:34,560
 These that in the current code are currently separate subchapters.

1520
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:40,600
 Now that we are looking at consolidating, they will be part of one subchapter and that

1521
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:44,520
 will be under development standards.

1522
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:51,800
 Chapter 7 deals with subdivision regulations, your platting, your development dedication,

1523
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,240
 that sort of thing is under this subchapter.

1524
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:59,960
 And then chapter 8 is your definitions, contains all of the definitions which to some is not

1525
01:34:59,960 --> 01:35:03,920
 as important, but it's really the most important thing, because in order to know what type

1526
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:10,160
 of uses are you looking at or certain definition, this plays a very key role in how we review

1527
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:12,200
 applications.

1528
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:20,320
 Okay, so moving out of subchapters, the zoning map is a big part of this update as well,

1529
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:25,160
 and we've done our -- we've been doing a lot of public outreach.

1530
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:32,880
 There are approximately 30,000 plus property addresses that we know of per the Den County

1531
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:37,960
 Appraisal District, and each of these property owners have been notified through a postcard

1532
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:42,720
 and will be notified when we enter the public hearing process through a letter.

1533
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:48,680
 So we are doing our best to make sure we try to get their attention as soon as possible

1534
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:55,800
 so that when we get to the public hearing, there are no surprises, so postcards, mailers,

1535
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,040
 all of that is going to be done.

1536
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:04,760
 Again, email blast, any other social media that we can do to get the word out we have.

1537
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:06,640
 There is a dedicated website.

1538
01:36:06,640 --> 01:36:13,440
 I encourage you all, if you haven't already done so, denco 2030.com has a lot of the

1539
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:20,420
 proposed subchapters as well as the zoning map in that website, and again, all the other

1540
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:27,720
 press releases and newspapers that we try to do our best to get the information out.

1541
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:34,800
 Again, the dedicated website, all of what is being proposed is under this website as

1542
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:42,440
 well as the zoning map, and that is something that we are very passionate -- are dedicated

1543
01:36:42,440 --> 01:36:47,080
 on keeping updated, so as soon as you get a chance, please look at that.

1544
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:53,400
 There will be an updated draft coming up in November this month, so right now, what is

1545
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:55,520
 there is a public draft.

1546
01:36:55,520 --> 01:37:01,960
 We are going to be coming forward with a consolidated draft, which is just another draft where we've

1547
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:08,080
 taken comments from the committee, we've taken comments from the citizens, and we're consolidating

1548
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:14,640
 those into one draft, which incorporates all of those comments.

1549
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:18,440
 We also have an opportunity to receive input through the comment cards.

1550
01:37:18,440 --> 01:37:22,320
 These comment cards can be submitted in a hard copy or submitted through the website

1551
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:24,720
 as well.

1552
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:26,200
 So what's next?

1553
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:33,340
 November 9th, which was last Friday, we provided the consultants, our consultants, a markup

1554
01:37:33,340 --> 01:37:36,320
 version of the staff draft.

1555
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:41,440
 What they are going to provide us in two weeks, November 21st, is a consolidated draft as

1556
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:45,920
 well as a draft updated zoning map, which we will publish online.

1557
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:52,160
 So again, November 21st, denco2030.com, if you have time, please look at that.

1558
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:56,480
 We will continue to have stakeholder meetings throughout January -- through January, that

1559
01:37:56,480 --> 01:37:59,040
 is, from December and January.

1560
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:05,280
 Hopefully we'll start having open houses January, February, and then public hearing in the following

1561
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:11,000
 month, which is February and then March to city council.

1562
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:18,680
 The next few slides are just slides showing where we've been, what committees we've presented

1563
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:24,320
 to as well as neighborhood committees or neighborhood neighborhoods that we've presented to.

1564
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:27,280
 And you can see we're right here with the HLC.

1565
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:31,880
 We'll be presenting to planning zoning commission on Wednesday and then also meeting with other

1566
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:38,220
 stakeholders throughout the next coming months, again, December and January.

1567
01:38:38,220 --> 01:38:44,080
 Our goal is to get here with the planning zoning commission and city council.

1568
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:53,280
 Those dates are still to be determined, but we're looking at early March for consideration.

1569
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:54,820
 That concludes my presentation.

1570
01:38:54,820 --> 01:39:01,480
 Just really want to give you all an update of what's going on with the DDC rewrite.

1571
01:39:01,480 --> 01:39:02,480
 Thank you.

1572
01:39:02,480 --> 01:39:03,480
 Thank you so much, Ron.

1573
01:39:03,480 --> 01:39:09,400
 I know that's a massive undertaking.

1574
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:10,640
 All right.

1575
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:22,440
 We can take a look at the historic landmark commission project matrix.

1576
01:39:22,440 --> 01:39:32,040
 Very little changes since our last meeting.

1577
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:38,600
 I have a note there at the bottom just to the item for the painting of the mural.

1578
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:41,480
 The applicant, Eric, appealed that to city council.

1579
01:39:41,480 --> 01:39:43,040
 It'll be on an upcoming agenda.

1580
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:49,360
 I think it's -- it might be the 27th, but if you want a detail on that, I can email

1581
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:53,640
 it to you.

1582
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:54,640
 That's just a note.

1583
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:58,400
 I was asked to let you know that.

1584
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:03,160
 For the most part, the rest, that's kind of in line -- I think we had -- I'll definitely

1585
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:07,080
 be more diligent -- a lot of these items, I usually used to spend my weekends working

1586
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:11,240
 on stuff up here, which you know I spent my weekends on the road to last year.

1587
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:14,920
 So I'll be tackling these, eliminate this stuff.

1588
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:16,560
 We get some new stuff on here.

1589
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:17,560
 Awesome.

1590
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:21,560
 The other thing I wanted to ask before you is -- pardon my ignorance, but what happens

1591
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:24,000
 in an appeal to city council?

1592
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:25,000
 They can override this?

1593
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:26,000
 Is that true?

1594
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:27,000
 That's true.

1595
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:33,120
 It's just a basic -- I think it's -- their decision is to appeal -- I mean to --

1596
01:40:33,120 --> 01:40:34,120
 Right.

1597
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:37,520
 To uphold our decision or to override it.

1598
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:45,200
 I was actually wondering why you hadn't painted it yet because I just drove by it today.

1599
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:47,360
 It still looks horrific.

1600
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:48,640
 That's just my editorial.

1601
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:49,640
 Sure.

1602
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:50,640
 No, I --

1603
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:51,640
 That's cool.

1604
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:52,640
 As far as I know --

1605
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:53,640
 As far as I know --

1606
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:54,640
 And I still like it.

1607
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:55,640
 That's just straight up and down.

1608
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:56,640
 I love it.

1609
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:57,640
 I love all of it.

1610
01:40:57,640 --> 01:40:58,640
 I'll live right next to it.

1611
01:40:58,640 --> 01:40:59,640
 That's okay.

1612
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:00,640
 My husband and I disagree.

1613
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:01,640
 He and I have an argument about it.

1614
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:02,640
 All right.

1615
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:03,640
 Okay.

1616
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:10,880
 In the future, you don't have to wait for the end of a meeting.

1617
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:15,200
 If you have a concern, please call or email and tell me what to look at.

1618
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:19,360
 So will we be notified of the final decision by council after that's made on that?

1619
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:20,360
 Yes.

1620
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:22,520
 If you'd like to come to the meeting, too.

1621
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:23,520
 Let me pinpoint.

1622
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:29,080
 I think it's November 27th, if that's the meeting date, but we've been pushing things

1623
01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:30,080
 forward.

1624
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,600
 It was important that you approve the minutes here.

1625
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:36,080
 We think we would have already gone, but we needed to be able to say here's what the final

1626
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:37,400
 decision was.

1627
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:38,400
 Great.

1628
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:39,400
 Cool.

1629
01:41:39,400 --> 01:42:00,940
 Well, if there is nothing else, then we can go ahead and call this meeting to a close.

1630
01:42:00,940 --> 01:42:01,940
 You don't have to move.

1631
01:42:01,940 --> 01:42:02,940
 See you.

1632
01:42:02,940 --> 01:42:03,940
 Thank you.

1633
01:42:03,940 --> 01:42:04,940
 Bye.

1634
01:42:04,940 --> 01:42:05,940
 Thank you, everybody.

1635
01:42:05,940 --> 01:42:06,940
 Thank you.

1636
01:42:06,940 --> 01:42:06,960
 Get out of here.