The first item on our agenda is items 1, items for
consideration.
1A is TSC 18-036 to consider the approval of the Traffic
Safety Commission meetings
of September 17, 2018.
Did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes?
Are there any corrections?
Sorry for that.
Are there any corrections or amendments to those minutes?
Move, we approve.
Okay.
We have one motion for approval.
Do I have a second?
Second.
We have a second.
Does everyone vote in favor?
Anyone opposed?
Okay.
Minutes passed unanimously.
Item 1B, TSC 18-037 is to receive a training and hold a
discussion on City Boards and Commission
training.
Good evening, everyone.
My name is Preetam Deshmukh.
Last week, we, the staff, city staff received a training.
It was more in line with how do you run these meetings?
There are several board and committee--committees
throughout the city.
What are the things that you need to know?
How do you run the meeting?
And what are the things you need to watch out for?
So I'm going to quickly play a training video and then we
can discuss if we have any questions,
we can get some answers.
There it is.
I see YouTube.
Yeah, we have a YouTube channel.
If lots of them, why don't we have one?
Okay.
[Video played]
Congratulations on your appointment to one of our city's
boards, commissions, or city
council committees.
Boards and commissions are essential to the successful
function of city government, and
your contributions will upshake the future of Denton.
You will be studying and recommending policy application on
a variety of issues vital to
the city's future.
This training is designed to assist you in your service.
As a companion to your boards and commissions handbook,
this video will provide a general
introduction to topics and processes that directly affect
members of boards, including
an overview of the city of Denton government structure,
general membership information,
applicability of conflict of interest in open government
laws, and procedural rules governing
meetings.
The city attorney, city secretary, and staff liaisons are
also available to assist you
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Again, congratulations on your appointment and thank you so
much for your interest in
serving your community.
Your efforts will make Denton a better place to live and
work.
Any questions on this?
I do have a question.
Do you have a handbook?
We can look into that.
I'll get with the city secretary and if there are specific
handbooks we can have that given
to you.
You mentioned you had a handbook and I'm like, "Mm-hmm."
The magical handbook.
Yeah.
All right.
Any other questions, comments?
Okay.
So everybody's up to speed now.
Okay.
The next item of business is 1CTSC 18-03A, which is to
receive a report and hold a discussion
and make a recommendation to city council for approval of
an amendment for advanced
funding agreement for furnishing and installing of traffic
signal equipment by municipality
at the intersection of FM 2499 and Robinson Road.
Okay.
This is a similar item.
It is an agreement between the city and TechStat to provide
for funding specific signal equipment.
So typically what happens is TechStat, when they go in and
widen these streets and corridors,
they install signals at intersections that require signal
ization.
And while doing so, the equipment is bought by TechStat,
their contractors, and they install
them.
A lot of times what happens when we go that route, some of
the equipment that is crucial
to our communications, talking to different other signal
equipment throughout the city,
the type of equipment, the specifications of the equipment
are not consistent and the
contractor loses it in the contract.
So what we try to do is we provide our own specific type of
equipment, city buys it and
provides it to TechStat while they're going through the
construction.
The ultimate goal being city is through an interlocal
agreement, city manages all the
traffic signals throughout the city for all TechStat
facilities.
So ultimately we want to make sure that we can communicate
with the signal, we can maintain
them, we have the right equipment to replace, and that's
why we have to make sure that we're
consistent in all the signal equipment.
This is similar to the item that we brought forward for
another intersection along FM2181
last time around.
And this is an agreement amendment.
This particular FM2499 stretch had two signalized
intersections, one at State School, which is
right here, this is signalized, and then the other one was
Unicorn Lakes.
So these two signals are already in place and the agreement
between the city and TechStat
has been signed.
The signalized intersection at Robinson and 2499 was added
at a later stage and this is
where we're back for an amendment.
And staff recommendation is, commissioners, traffic safety
commission recommends council
for moving forward with this amendment and getting reimb
ursed for the signal equipment
that we've already supplied to TechStat.
Any questions?
Is this the same intersection we were looking at last week?
So last, there is a little bit of confusion I think.
Last week we came here for a no right turn on red.
But it's the same intersection.
It is the same intersection.
But last week we came for an amendment of a different
intersection on 2181.
So the agreement was for a different location.
This is an agreement for Robinson at 2499.
Okay any discussion?
Any questions for Preetam?
I just want to make sure I understand because I'm new.
So the city's already provided the equipment.
You're simply saying yes, pay for it?
Is that what we're doing?
Preetam?
I apologize for that.
Typically it is not, this is sort of backwards typically.
What happens is TechStat designs all these corridors and
the signals and all the plans
are prepared.
Then they make sure that they list all the intersections in
the agreement.
And then that goes through the process of traffic safety
commission approving it, recommending
it to the city council.
And then they go for construction.
In this case they did not anticipate signalizing Robinson
at 2499.
So the work has already been completed.
And now we're in the process of backtracking and how can we
get our money back for the
equipment that we've already provided.
I have a question about what changed then.
If they were anticipating the building of these roads and
did not originally anticipate
the need for traffic signaling at that intersection, what
changed?
The city convinced them.
Typically for example on 2181, if you take an example on Te
asley, we already know what
the traffic is.
It's a two lane highway.
We know what the traffic is on the cross street.
So you can go out there, collect existing data, do a signal
warrants analysis.
And based on that, okay, a signal is warranted.
There is already one there.
So TechStat goes ahead and designs it in their widening
project.
When there is a brand new facility, something like 2499,
they do not have the data.
So a lot of times their approach at looking at things is
once we construct it, we'll collect
the data at the later stage and then we'll implement it.
So when we went back and forth, we had to do a lot of
convincing and prove that if you
leave this intersection un-signalized, there will be a lot
of backup on Robinson.
They were planning an all-way stop here.
And yeah, we lived through that phase of this project, all
the way stop.
Okay.
All right.
So who issued the change order on that, the city or the
state?
The state is trying to amend their agreement with the city.
Trying to?
This is an amendment.
So it will...
Oh, I thought I was on.
Greenline.
Hello.
I'm sorry.
Hi.
Again, the change order was issued by, as I understand, the
state?
Correct.
The state realized they only have an agreement for two
intersections.
And since the city went ahead and helped them construct
this third intersection, supplied
the equipment already because it's running, they have
issued an amendment to their existing
agreement.
A comment?
For somebody like me who's relatively new to the community,
I can look 2181 all day
long, but this map doesn't show it that way.
Do you have maps to correspond to the FM 2181 or 2499 as
opposed to Robinson Road?
So we don't necessarily have a map that shows FM 2499, but
this Barrelstrap Road and State
School Road, this from FM 2181 is right here.
From this point all the way to 35E.
If you go further south at some point, this will show up as
FM 2499.
But it's just a matter of which view you're looking at.
An observation from last week, if I could.
We were taking a vote and it came up that if we voted a
certain way, we would lose some
money?
Correct.
For a future, if that would be impacting on another future
decision, can you state that
as part of the review for us up front?
Okay, yes, definitely.
It sets a precedence for the future projects that we're
bringing forward.
Very good, thank you.
You can leave it on.
Any other questions, comments?
I would just say that maybe for Melissa's, since she wasn't
here at the last one, we
voted against one which we learned after the vote means
that the city paid out the money
and does not recoup it from the state.
We reconsidered it and got the state to kick in.
So a no vote on this one would arrive at the same situation
, right, Pritam?
Correct.
Okay, thanks.
Anyone ready to make a motion?
I'll make a motion to approve.
Do we have a second?
I'll second.
Okay, do we have a second?
Yeah, make sure the green lights are on.
Okay, everyone in favor of the motion?
Aye.
Okay, anyone opposed?
And that passes unanimously.
Awesome.
Okay, that brings us to item 1D, TSC 18-039, which is to
receive a report, hold discussion
regarding neighborhood traffic management measures, traffic
calming in the city of Denton.
So traffic calming, this is a presentation that went before
council to have specifically
asked for this particular item to be brought forward.
And this went in last week, Wednesday, part of it, I'm
going to go through it.
If you have any questions in the middle, just stop me at a
particular traffic calming option
that you're looking at.
And I think this starts or sets the stage moving forward
for the city.
What is our process?
How are we dealing with neighborhood speeding concerns?
What are we doing as far as cut through traffic?
How do we address neighborhood issues?
There's been a lot of neighborhoods within the community
that have raised this concern.
As Denton continues to grow, traffic on the major arterials
is finding ways around neighborhoods
and getting through smaller streets at a higher speed.
That's something that no one really likes in their
neighborhood, in their front yard.
So these are certain, this is how we're trying to handle
this.
I'll also talk about some next steps towards the end of the
presentation.
But in general, what are we doing?
So what is traffic calming?
It is mainly used for reducing speed as well as high cut
through traffic through neighborhood
streets.
So really local residential streets, that where you have
actual driveways and you back
out on the street while you're getting out of your houses.
On those particular streets, what are the steps?
How do we address this?
So the first, look at the three step method that we are,
the first thing we do is educate
people, make them aware of the situation.
A lot of times there have been neighborhoods where
neighbors themselves, people that live
in the actual neighborhood subdivision community are
participant to some of the speeding and
other activities.
So a lot of times if there's local awareness that helps
address some of the issues.
The second step is definitely enforcement.
We focus a lot on enforcement and I'll go through what
police department staff is currently
doing and what kind of method they're using.
And then last, engineering, which is how do we physically
address this issue using engineering?
How do we narrow streets down, put in some of the traffic
calming devices in place so
that actual traffic slows down or is forced to slow down
because of the features.
So the first step, education and enforcement go hand in
hand.
Police department uses this method called SARA, which is
scan, analyze, respond and
assess.
So once they get a speeding complaint, the first thing they
are doing is doing speed
studies to understand are people really speeding through
this neighborhood?
What is the percentage?
Are a lot of people speeding?
If they're more than 85th percentile speed is more than the
posted speed limit, then
the police department staff continues to for the next two
to three weeks do a robust education
and enforcement campaign.
It's a combination of stopping people warning them if they
're in a different range and
then enforcing or ticketing them if they're really above,
way above the posted speed limit.
After that two to three weeks, another second study is
conducted and that's where they want
to focus their attention on has the behavior changed?
If there are any changes in the behavior, have people
really started understanding that
these are not the streets that they should be traveling at
the rate that they're doing?
And the last one is a third speed study and this is
typically about two months after the
second and they want to go back and see if the changes that
they're trying to bring about
are they permanent?
Not permanent.
So this is the process that we go through in the first two
steps.
Now at the end of this particular process, if it continues
to happen that the speeders
continue to speed, if there's a large amount of cut through
traffic, then the next item
that we look at is engineering.
Okay, Tim, I have a question about the 85 percent, 85
percent of the vehicles are above
the posted speed limit.
How is that decision made?
So this is through a lot of engineering studies and data
collection that traffic engineers
throughout the nation have come to the conclusion that
depending on the clues and the environment
that a person is driving, typically if 85 percent of the
people are driving under a
certain speed, that is identified as a speed limit for that
particular roadway.
So if you really have a wide street, large street and
people are really driving at a
kind of fast rate, then that becomes a normal norm because
the environment that you're driving,
the driver gets comfortable.
It's more of a psychological assessment.
And the more and more features, if you have more
residential features, if you have narrow
street or parking and the types of, that's part of the
options that we have for traffic
calming, then it makes it less desirable for any driver to
be traveling at that particular
speed.
So if 85 percent of the people are driving at a speed limit
or below it, then that becomes
your speed limit or that's the 85 percent.
So that's a national standard.
That's a national standard.
And then in some neighborhoods, is there a way for us in
Denton then to have more of
a graduated look at that?
Like there are some neighborhoods where if 20 percent of
the drivers are above the speed
limit, then the risk to children, to pedestrians, to cycl
ists on the road is more intense.
Correct.
So I think that's the next step is to go to engineering and
force people to slow down
at some of these nodes, intersections or along the stretch
of the street.
There are different options that can be looked into as to
when you're entering a specific
neighborhood or when you're going through a neighborhood,
what are the options?
If there's a lot of cut through traffic, because a lot of
times it's not the local residents
that are living in the community, a lot of cut through
folks that are rushing through
the area.
So there are different alternatives that we can go through.
And yeah, absolutely engineering is a way to address that.
Thank you.
So I want to start with what are the most common requests
when it comes to slowing people down
and there are some misconceptions associated with that.
So the number one request is stop signs.
Everyone wants a stop sign along the corridor so that
people will slow down and stop at
each and every intersection.
On the contrary, studies have shown that if a person is
traveling and stop signs are placed
to reduce speed, not necessarily warranted, there's a whole
warrant process that goes
through the stop sign, but if they're not warranted, they
're installed for slowing
folks down, they will come to a rolling stop first and then
second, they will try and speed
up between the intersections.
So those studies have proven that it is not really an
effective tool and second, if it's
not warranted, it cannot be enforced.
So it's not enforceable, we cannot regulate that, PD cannot
go out and ticket if it's
not warranted.
So if there is a case if someone challenges, legally we
cannot really issue a citation.
So that is a misconception.
Stop signs are typically installed based on federal and
state guidelines and those yield
and stop signs, these are regulatory signs, cannot be used
for speed control.
So that's the first thing.
And I'll get on, touch a little bit more on the speed house
, but that's the second most
common, that's the second most common request for reducing
speed.
This is the process that we typically follow.
Obviously when we get, I touched on the first couple, we
get a request, we go through the
education enforcement piece.
Part of that also includes data collection and assessment.
And here's how we determine eligibility is if your average
volume is, average daily volume
is 1000 vehicles or 100 peak hour vehicles, that's a good
candidate for a street to look
at cut through traffic as well as speeding.
The 85th percentile, we talked about that, if the 85th
percentile speed is five or more
than the speed limit, so for example 30 miles an hour is
the speed limit, if majority of
the folks, 85 percent are going more than that, five more
than that, more than 35, so
that at that point it becomes a good candidate to get into
the next step for looking at engineering
solutions.
And then of course a lot of cut through traffic with 100
trips in there.
So what do we do after we get all this data?
We develop a plan, traffic calming is, I wouldn't say
controversial, but very choice specific
between different residents, some residents like it,
certain ways, some don't.
So we do have to develop a plan and get a neighborhood
meeting, a community sort of
most preferred alternative, not everyone's going to agree,
but if we go through the process
of reaching out to the community and saying this is the
majority of the folks, this is
a better option than the other one, at that point that
concept is chosen and then we can
move forward with the next steps as far as funding,
engineering design, and then after
that construction portion just assess the effectiveness,
evaluate it, how much is, this
is the process that staff typically follows.
We are actually in the preliminary stages of implementing
this everywhere.
This is something new that the city has started so that we
can address some resident concerns.
Yes, Jim.
One of the factors, I saw the presentation you did at the
other one.
One of the factors is it might be a temporary problem
because of road construction.
Correct.
So if you're going to do three studies and you're going to
do them within two months,
it may not be the good approach.
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up.
We are going through a similar issue along some of the
neighborhoods off of FM 2181.
There are certain parallels, North, South Street that run
through neighborhood and people
cut over into that neighborhood.
So as TechStop moves forward with some of their projects,
we move forward with our bigger
capital projects.
We identify a lot of these neighborhoods that are going to
be on a temporary basis.
One of the things that we're also looking at is what is a
temporary engineering solution?
By that I mean how can we install some of these traffic
calming devices on a temporary
basis, on a bolt down basis, or are there any signs and
markings that we can use better?
So there are different ways of looking at it.
We can actually go ahead and install curbs or bulb outs
using temporary rubberized curbs
that will be bolted throughout the construction period of a
year or two years, and then we
can be removed after the issue has been resolved.
So there are several ways that we can address this issue.
Yes?
What do you think is the cause of the problem?
What leads to roads that ... the problem in the first place
, is it the roads are built
too wide?
Is it just that there's congestion in other areas?
Is there anything planning long term we can do differently,
and are we doing it?
So yes, the main cause of this is how well the city is
planned.
Are there master plans in place?
Have you already identified major arterials and thorough
fare that should be in place when
the traffic arrives?
So it's a combination of development happening at the same
time the city's trying to implement
their master plan.
So a lot of times there is not really an overlap.
We miss the dates.
The schedules are not the same.
So by the time one of the capital project goes in, there's
already two subdivisions
in place.
So that kind of creates an issue that that subdivision
receives a lot of cut through
traffic until the project goes in.
The prime example is FM 2181.
2181 has been in the design for 10 years.
It's just by the time it went to construction, it is ... we
're in 2018.
So what has happened if 2181 was already constructed to a
full six lane facility as it's planned
today, then some of this neighborhood cut through traffic
and speeding would have not
occurred.
So it's a matter of scheduling.
And as we grow, city is going to go through some sort of
pains.
How many of these street sites are ... can you do it once
as a study?
We can look at a total neighborhood for a study.
So there are areas that can be identified saying, for
example, I think Fulton is a great
example.
There is Fulton intersection at Egan.
There are several intersections along Fulton near Denton
High, between Denton High and
US 380 and that whole neighborhood.
So instead of just focusing on one street or one
intersection, we can look at the grid
system of all the streets coming in and create a wholesome
plan that says, okay, within this
neighborhood there are certain areas that should be
restricted or deter people by implementing
some of these traffic calming devices.
So they would not use those, instead use University or some
of the larger streets that are meant
for traffic.
Any other questions?
I'll move on.
Okay, so these are the options that are a bunch of more.
So these are about 14.
We have some more that are not listed here.
I'm going to focus on the first seven on the left side.
So I'm going to talk about all of these.
These are there.
If you're interested, I can provide more information on
what exactly they are and pros and cons
and stuff like that.
Let's start with speed humps.
Everyone knows what that is.
It's a three, four inch bump in the road, which is about 12
to 20 feet wide with the
typical width of the road.
And then it's commonly used for traffic calming.
Appropriate locations are in mid-block, generally on a
street and in the residential neighborhood.
What are the advantages?
Yeah, it is effective in slowing traffic.
Relatively low cost.
It's a matter of adding a little bit more asphalt.
But once you start focusing in on the disadvantages, things
get much more clear why.
The main issue is the emergency response.
This is not so much so that it would reduce the response
time or affect it as much.
It's more of a hazard for paramedics.
It's ambulances going over these.
And when patients, especially when patients are in, the
amount of displacement or the
amount of speed that they can drive on considerably reduces
.
So that's a major concern.
It definitely is an issue.
If it's a major transit route, you don't want the bus to
slow down every single speed
hump that you're in.
And then the last one is the drainage concerns.
If the speed hump extends all the way to the drainage,
definitely there are issues of water
not moving forward.
So these are the main drawbacks.
And that's why speed humps, typically the easiest one, are
not recommended because they
have some serious drawbacks.
What is the alternative?
Well, why is it that you said it's the most requested?
And is it simply because people don't know that there is an
entire suite of other options?
Is that the default setting?
Correct.
It has been used widely.
And that's what people know.
So there's a lot more information out there about that as
opposed to anything else.
So this is an improved version of the speed humps.
These are called speed cushions.
And they do exactly what the speed humps do, but they do
have these grooves that are spaced
such that only emergency vehicles with wider wheelbase,
axlebase, can actually drive through
these grooves.
No trucks, passenger vehicles cannot drive through these
grooves because their axle bases
are not wide enough.
I think this is about 71 inches wide, 70 or 71.
So if there are places such that you have these spaces in
there and then there is space
at the end near the drainage, so drainage issues go away,
the emergency vehicle issues
go away.
This is a better picture.
And to your point, Commissioner Owens, that these are bolt
downs, so you can put them
for a couple years and then take them out when construction
is completed or the issue
has gone away.
One of the also a good aspect of the bolt downs is it can
also be used as an educational
tool.
So if an area or a community feels that majority of the
people that are really speeding in
our area are locals, are folks that live in, and all we
need is more education, get everyone
on board, then we can implement this for six months or a
year, a couple years, take it
out after that so that people get in a routine of following
that habit.
So obviously there are several advantages here.
It does help in reducing vehicular speeds, minimal impact
to emergency vehicles, and
then you can also use them on emergency route.
One of the drawbacks that's shown here, there might be some
traffic diversion.
If you install those, people are not going to use the same
route.
They might go to the neighborhood streets.
So that's why when we look at traffic calming, we look at
the grid pattern.
We look at all the streets and identify if certain aspects
or if the traffic would be
diverted.
If it will be, then we have to come up with a different
plan to address.
On street parking, as I alluded to a little bit early, this
is also part or can be used
for calming traffic when there are narrower lanes, when
there's little width available
for driving on.
Then people tend to go slow, they stay away from some of
these cars that are already parked,
thinking you might hit someone's doors or someone's
probably getting out.
You're cautious, you're attentive.
So that helps calm traffic.
So here are some of the advantages.
It helps reduce it.
It also acts as a buffer between the pedestrians on the
sidewalk and the actual vehicles traveling
in the lanes.
Disadvantage clearly are visibility of pedestrians.
That's a big disadvantage that if there are cars parked too
close, there are gaps that
pedestrians can run through, especially kids.
And/or if you want to step outside the curb and cross the
street, it becomes an issue
for visibility.
So there are obviously some risks associated with this.
And then even risk for cyclists for dooring.
I mean, that's also common.
If a cyclist is using the travel lanes, then someone opens
the door, that becomes an issue.
Traffic circles, this is slightly separate.
This is different than the roundabouts.
This is a typical intersection.
That's where you can install those.
And every person that enters a circle has to negotiate on
the right side so they go
around the circle.
These are typically installed with either yield signs so
that people, when they're approaching
an intersection, they yield to the traffic within the
circle.
They're not advised for higher volumes because it's not
designed for a higher volume.
Here are some of these advantages.
The potential conflict points are very little because any
person coming into the intersection
is only looking to their left.
So they're only conflicting one direction of traffic.
And then you can actually landscape some of this to enhance
the appearance of the neighborhood.
So that's traffic circle.
What are some of the disadvantages?
It's difficult for emergency vehicles to go through the
circle.
Essentially what traffic circle does is this island in the
middle impedes any through traffic
to go fast.
It forces everyone to really slow down, make this very
slowly, and then continue going.
So it does help even though they're not completely coming
to a stop, they're slowing considerably
down.
And if you have some of these at certain intersections or
intervals, you can definitely help create
an impact on the actual speed of flowing through the
corridor.
They're also an issue for larger vehicles, trucks, buses
that cannot turn in.
But if you're in a smaller neighborhood that doesn't have
that much of that traffic, then
those are the places you can install them.
Some impacts for on-street parking at the corners.
The on-street parking at the corners have to be restricted
so cars can get over closer
to the curb and then turn.
So those are some of the disadvantages.
So the traffic circle is a roundabout with a smaller
footprint.
Are there other pieces that are different?
They're different.
I'll pull up a roundabout.
Traffic circle is not a roundabout.
It's more of an intersection with an island in the middle.
And this island in the middle, what it essentially is doing
is forcing people to slow down because
they can no longer go through the intersection.
What a roundabout does, which is next, what a roundabout
does is actually channelizes
people with these deflector islands.
It will channelize people to enter this area slowly with
much wider turning radius on each
side.
So a little bit more space is required.
You have to better plan this.
And with this, the only thing you're looking at while you
're yielding is this one vehicle
coming in.
And there could be multiple vehicles within this round area
around.
It's a much larger area.
And while exiting, you're exiting at a different angle.
So the angles are different.
They force vehicles to enter much slower.
And there can be several vehicles within the island, within
this area inside the roundabout.
Circulating vehicle, these are all the things.
Parking is not allowed within this area.
And then all of the vehicles circulate counterclockwise,
passing through the island.
So when you're talking about the traffic circle and you
said that it's best in an application
where the intersection sees fewer than 3,500 trips a day?
Correct.
Are there -- give me an example of an intersection that you
might be aware of that would fit
the definition for that application?
So these are smaller intersections, definitely.
And I'm not sure about the 3,500 because I don't have the
count numbers on top of my
head.
But some of the intersections within that Fulton/Egan can
be looked at to really slow
down someone that is passing through that intersection at a
very high speed.
So when they're passing through the intersection, they know
that there is an island and they
have to slow down.
So definitely it will slow down.
You don't have to make any changes to the outside curve at
these intersections.
So that's why this is an option instead of having a full-bl
own roundabout where you have
to redesign and rework everything.
This is like an inner option that you can throw in there.
And this would be something, if you were going to plan for
a traffic circle, you would have
to get, for instance, bus patterns because of the
difficulty of making a left turn and
location to the nearest fire station.
Correct.
So emergency routes and bus routes and we have to identify
all of that.
So as long as you find that you have an intersection where
you know that there's not going to be
public transportation or school transportation needing to
make the left.
If they could come in from another way and they're aware of
that, then that would be
it.
These folks can still make a left.
They have to go around and the turn angle is very
restrictive to buses and large vehicles.
Okay.
So right and right out islands, these are right and right
out as the name suggests.
It is at an intersection where no left movements out of
that particular neighborhood or in
to that neighborhood are allowed.
And as I mentioned, this is mostly at intersections where a
smaller street, residential neighborhood
or other type of street comes in and intersects a major
arterial or a major collector.
So this is an intersection where you really don't want that
main street traffic to really
use or enter your neighborhood making left from either
direction or getting out of your
neighborhood.
You just want the quick right and right out folks that can
go in and out.
So it's a partial access.
There is a complete closure also.
There's that, that is an option.
There are other options for that.
It reduces traffic on local streets, improves pedestrian
crossing.
If you look at there, it creates a refuge area for
pedestrians.
So someone has to only look in one direction to cross.
And then it may divert traffic to some parallel streets.
So it could be, it could be worked in a combination of one
is right and right out.
The other one gets a full access or vice versa, depending
on the type of residential street
and how much traffic they have.
It can be worked into the whole traffic calming.
Next one is curb extensions.
These are bulb outs.
Typically the intersection is narrowed out.
You take out parking and bring in the curbs outside.
So when cars are entering, this is not a full wide
intersection, but it's actually a narrow
place.
So when you're approaching the intersection, you're really
slowing down and then you go
through the intersection.
So this is creating more of a effect that you have very
little space to go through this
place.
So it creates that sense of narrowing and feeling of, okay,
I need to slow down or else
I'm going to hit the curb.
It is appropriate for local roads on some of the collectors
and arterials.
It works well in the downtown area.
I think this will be considered as part of one of the
improvements for the Mew Street.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the streets that are behind
the square, Austin, Pecan.
Those are looked into for redesigning and this is one of
the options that will be considered.
How can we make it more of an entry point that's safe for
pedestrians and bicycles and everyone
as opposed to a thoroughfare for vehicles to just go
through that area?
And then it can also be used as mid-block locations.
There are advantages and disadvantages.
It does definitely improve pedestrian safety because
pedestrians are way out here in front
of the traffic as opposed to way back here.
It may help reduce some of the travel speeds because you're
entering a narrow area.
It does prevent illegal parking.
I think this gets more into a space where UNT and TW, all
the universities that are
running into the issue of parked cars near intersections.
They're so close to the intersections that they are
blocking visibility.
They're so close to driveways that people can't even get
out of their driveway.
All that can be avoided with some of this where the parking
itself is eliminated.
You're technically enforcing your existing ordinance which
requires vehicles to be parked
30 feet from the intersection stop signs.
So this bringing out of the curb will help enforce some of
our parking problems.
And then obviously with some landscaping and all, it
improves the appearance.
Of course, loss of parking may prevent right turns at the
intersection.
This is leading to a larger vehicles, buses, and trucks
trying to make this right turn
when there is already a vehicle here.
So they have to probably wait until that vehicle clears and
then you make a wide angle turn.
And then it may create some difficulties for bicyclists if
there's a bike lane that's
next to the curb.
But some of those issues can be looked at when we're
actually recommending the types
of traffic calming options.
This one, last one that came about, this is use of public
art in traffic calming.
And there are several cities that are being created, use of
murals on the wall or public
art within an island area, median area.
Some are using landscaping, lighting, paint on the pavement
and stuff like that.
This all helps.
It gives that feel of, this is something new, I need to
slow down a little bit and look
at this.
It helps.
Maintenance wise, there is a pavement, this pavement
marking, maintenance is an issue.
You have to maintain it a lot.
The other issue that comes across using public art is once
you've seen it and you see it
for a couple times, the third time you're not going to slow
down.
So you have to constantly be doing something about, you
know, refreshing it, changing it,
moving it, something like that.
So this is still pretty much a starting point or a starting
idea and we will develop more
as we move forward.
Have there been any studies on that to show the...
There has been one to show the impact and pretty much to
the face of it, it's inconclusive
but what they're saying is within the next two, within the
first two or three weeks,
the impact or the effect is considerably reduced for
slowing people down.
That's what it says.
There are not that many studies or there are not that many
locations as it has been really
helpful.
Oops.
And then next steps, this is the last slide.
We're going to compile this information and the other seven
that we had, all that information
into a easy to read format.
It will work with our public communications office to put
it online, get into brochures
and pamphlets and then finally this will be developed into
a handbook and the handbook
will get into more details of, okay, what are the design
specifications, what are the
engineering behind some of these alternatives and how do we
implement them?
And then finally we'll take this handbook once it's done,
bring to the committee and
then present it to city council for adoption.
Those are our next steps.
Any questions?
I have one.
Yes.
So somebody I know brought up the road next to the North
Lakes Park and how people go
fairly fast through there and they had mentioned that there
's a light, a blinking light that
you can click on and people can go across there.
And they think that works and this was, I didn't see this
mentioned.
Is that considered a calming device?
That is more of a pedestrian safety device because you can
cross.
Signage and pavement marking is part of traffic calming.
Those are the really preliminary steps before you even get
into heavy engineering and putting
some of these high dollar things.
The first step is more of educating people and part of that
process is what kind of signage
can I install, what kind of pavement markings I can install
.
And then, yeah, it is more for the safety of the
pedestrians crossing.
Is that why we have the light?
It's not for slowing vehicles.
Okay.
Thank you.
I wonder, has there been any discussion?
It seems like some of these would be really good ideas
right off the square because right
now our roads just really, you're driving slow on the
square.
There's all these things to look at.
So people go slow and then it just opens up and people gun
it, especially like I'm thinking
of on locust when you're going north.
So I just would see like there even at McKinney would be a
great spot to like bring out the
curbs and slow everyone down right in that area.
Is that TextDot though?
Both those, Locust and Elm are TextDot facilities.
And we are in the process of taking that over as a city
street.
Awesome.
So TextDot has alluded that they want to get rid of that.
So part of those two streets, we're going to look at how do
we make them more complete
streets as opposed to just highways or free, which was they
intended to use back in the
day was it was more of a highway which went through the
city.
Now it's more of a complete street where how do we move
people?
How do we make it pedestrian and bike friendly?
So we're going to definitely look at the Mew Street, but
yes, you can definitely extend
it not only north side, even on the south side as some of
the properties develop, we
can definitely put it in.
There's so much room there.
There's we can put everything there.
Park cars on both sides, two bike lanes.
There's so much space though on Locust.
Is there a timeline for City of Denton taking over the Text
Dot?
Yeah, I think we're going out to bid pretty soon for the
for the utility relocation portion.
And then right after that will come a complete street rehab
by TextDot and then we'll take
it over.
We'll get it fixed and then take it over.
Oh, that'll be nice.
Okay.
So what happens then after we have this handbook?
Will the city be reaching out to the neighborhoods or will
the neighborhoods need to know to
come to the city?
And then who funds this potential hardscaping and?
So that's a good point.
I think we're taking smaller steps at this point.
Once the handbook is set, once we have a process set, then
we'll also establish how do we accept
these some of these concerns?
How do we analyze and process them?
Once everything is done and we know for sure that we're
going with this one particular
improvement, on a temporary basis, we're going to acquire
some of the removable curbs, the
rubberized curbs that can be bolt down.
Those are really comparatively very cheap, don't need a lot
of engineering and we can
start implementing some of those.
And as more and more neighborhoods or other streets come on
board, we can either, when
we're evaluating the effectiveness, if say six months down
the line, they're really effective
and now we want to go in a permanent phase, then we go to
council for funding to put in
something permanent.
If you feel that, yeah, it has achieved what it was
supposed to, we can remove that use
in some other place.
We are getting at least two or three different sets of
things that we can implement on a
temporary basis and start evaluating.
So that's our first step.
How do we do traffic calming currently?
Currently?
Is it similar to that or you just put it to pen?
We don't have this in place yet, the process.
So we are trying to get everything lined up.
We're in the first two phases where we do a lot of
education and enforcement and we are
trying to get on the engineering side what can we do and
how we can get everything addressed
through engineering.
So this is a new start for us and I think Patrice can
mention that, but this is a new
start and we're excited.
All right, anybody else have any questions, comments?
All right, excited to watch this move forward.
We're excited for you.
All right, that is going to bring us to item 1E, which is T
SC 18-040, which is to receive
a report, hold discussion regarding University of North
Texas joint traffic study for proposed
street closures within and around UNT campus.
All right, next presentation.
Okay, so this is a traffic study.
Let me get back up a little bit.
City of Denton staff started coordinating with UNT staff
about a year, year and a half
last May when we kicked off some of the meetings.
And in that coordination effort, UNT had brought up some of
their dream ideas, projects and
stuff like that.
UNT went through a big update in their master plan.
They already have a campus master plan and then they also
had a transportation master
plan.
Based on what was included in the transportation master
plan, they wanted to look at options
of how can we shut down some of the streets that go through
the campus.
And the two that were really identified and focused on were
Avenue C between Eagle and
Hickory, and then Highland between, I forget the limits,
but Highland between Welch and
I would say Avenue C, Welch and Avenue C. Those streets
were identified.
So we started talking as to what's the process, how do we
make sure that we get there or at
least understand what the implications would be to closing
some of these streets.
So we embarked on a joint study and looked at what are the
impacts.
Short term, immediately what happens.
In long term, when most of the city would be built out and
there's a lot more traffic
in the area and the campus itself grows, what happens?
So we looked at all those different scenarios and we
identified what the impacts were, where
they were, what the improvements are needed as part of this
study.
And then now the next step, I think we're wrapping up the
study at this point.
I want to go over how we did the study and what was ent
ailed.
And now we're at a point where once we've identified, then
we go to the next step, identify
funding.
Who's going to fund what and the phasing.
When do we really need some of these improvements to be in
place?
So an overview, what was the purpose of the project, the
methodology that we followed,
the actual analysis, what were the impacts, mitigations,
and then the schedule.
So the purpose of the project, as I mentioned, there was a
campus master plan, UNT parking
and transportation master plan.
So we met with the UNT staff and we wanted to see how we
could align their master plan
with our future infrastructure needs.
So what we did is we determined traffic condition on
thoroughfare surrounding a campus, evaluated
existing and future 2040 conditions, looked at feasibility
of closing those two streets
that I mentioned, and then what is needed for improving the
public infrastructure in
that area as a result of those closures.
Project methodology, data collection is obviously the first
step.
We collected data at 50 intersections within and outside
the campus.
I'll pull up the actual map in a little bit.
We looked at not only vehicles, but pedestrians and
bicycles.
And then we looked at 31 segments along the street, street
segments.
I think the map shows in the next slide.
We did some traffic forecasting.
What would happen by 2040 and what type of network we need,
what type of transportation
circulation demand do we have in this area.
So we looked at existing 2017, no-build 2040, and then what
happens if we close it in 2040.
And then obviously I did the analysis, identified impacts
and mitigation measures.
So this is the project boundaries.
These are the project boundaries.
As some of you may recognize, these are the same boundaries
for the Oak Gateway Small
Area Plan.
And this is sort of a joint effort.
We are looking at traffic conditions while implementing the
UNT master plan.
And then this is going to help make some of the decisions
for the Gateway Specific Plan.
So here are the 50 or so intersections starting one all the
way to 50 here.
These intersections we looked at daily volume and decided
that there's not that much traffic
all the way going to Panhandle at some of these
intersections.
So they were not really considered part of this analysis
because if you close Avenue
C and Highland in this area, the impacts were not getting
translated up here.
So existing volume, these are the volumes we have.
Some of them really high volume streets as Carol is close
to 32,000, 33,000 daily trips.
Bonnie Bray on the other side is close to 15,000 daily
trips, 16 here, 14 something
here.
The axis is about 10,000 and then the real ones that you
want to focus on are Avenue
C, it has about 6,000 daily trips.
Obviously when you shut this down, these trips are going to
be displaced onto parallel streets.
So that's one and then Highland is about 3,300 daily trips.
So this is the existing conditions.
The next step was looking at what is happening at the
intersections.
Usually as you may know if you travel this area on a daily
basis, yes.
Can you go back to the last slide?
Yes.
What are you getting on Stella?
Stella is not, we did not count the ADTs on Stella as part
of this study.
But yeah, we don't have data on Stella at which
intersection are you talking about,
North Texas?
Yeah, between North Texas and Bonnie Bray.
Yeah we did not really collect data on Stella as part of
this.
The reason being I think Avenue C closure was impacting
Bonnie Bray, not necessarily
east-west traffic on Stella.
So that was part of the assessment that our consultant made
.
There were some boundaries that they had to set and we
could collect information on each
and every street.
But as part of the Bonnie Bray project, we are looking at
every opening intersection
on Bonnie Bray.
So I can get you the data as part of that study.
If you're just looking for existing volume.
Just finish Hickory.
Small thing, just finish Hickory.
We're getting there.
I'm looking at, when I'm looking at existing traffic volume
, did you look at the North
Texas plan for Light the Tower that they released this
morning at 5 o'clock?
I did not look at that.
The build out for right across the highway.
They're putting in, planning a baseball diamond indoor
tennis.
Yeah.
Yes.
And I'm looking at the little tiny roads over there.
So we are looking at that.
In our last UNT coordination meeting, they did release some
of the information that was
not public back then.
It's now public.
And we do have some ideas of how to deal with some of that
and options.
And we've started discussing those.
What are the major streets?
How they can come in and tie in and keep the traffic off of
some of these smaller streets.
So yeah, definitely Bonnie Bray in this area will soon be
under construction.
Impacts obviously, all the big intersection.
Anything red, I like the red, green and yellow.
Anything red has a delay of 55 seconds or more.
If you approach that intersection, you're on an average
sitting there for 55 seconds
or more today.
For example, if you're at Collins Street at Carroll, on
both approaches you're sitting
there on an average for 55 seconds.
Similarly, at the intersection of Welch and Oak, this Welch
approach is impacted with
considerable delays.
So these are the intersections that are impacted.
Yellows are your at C and D level of service, which means
you're anywhere between 20 seconds
and 55 seconds at that intersection.
And then A and B is less than 20 seconds average delay at
intersection.
So this is how the picture looks today.
These are existing conditions, existing counts.
What happens in 2025 if you go back and all the-- some of
these yellows start turning
red because of the growth in traffic.
So North Texas intersections and then Bonnie Bray, Oak at
North Texas, all of these start
turning red.
Some of the green ones start turning yellow in this area.
So because of just the growth, you see that the impacts on
these intersections, if we
don't do anything today or if we don't have a plan, then
this is what's going to happen.
By 2040, a lot more red, a lot more yellow.
So we're talking about congestion, delays.
So that's the reason we conducted this study.
How are we going to fix this?
Fixing this is our ultimate goal.
Majority of the times, intersections are choke points where
you are traveling around the
corridor, you arrive at the intersection and then you're
stuck waiting for traffic and
then traffic starts backing up.
So that's why intersection is our major focus and delay at
the intersection is the main
concern.
So these are the three scenarios we looked at and I know in
the packet, I think they're
really small but this one is the first scenario, Avenue C
which carries about 6,000 daily trips.
If we just close down Avenue C, it's going to impact 30
intersections.
30 out of the 50 that we looked at will be impacted.
And then five roadway segments will have increased volumes.
So these are the five roadway segments, obviously Oak and H
ickory on the north, Eagle Drive
on the south and then North Texas and Welch on the east and
west.
So these are the impacts associated with this closure.
Scenario two, if you just shut down Highland Street between
Avenue C and I think this is
Avenue A, then the impact, you're going to reroute a little
over 3,000 daily trips.
That will impact 37 intersections out of the 50 that we
looked at and then four roadways
all next to Highland.
It's going to impact Maple, Eagle, Welch and North Texas on
either side.
Oak closed together, we're talking about rerouting 10,000
daily trips, 40 intersections out of
the 50 are impacted and then six roadways in and around
this area.
All of them pretty much covered by these two scenarios.
So these are the scenarios that we looked at.
Obviously we went with the worst case scenario which was
scenario three.
What happens if they really decide to follow their master
plan and then move ahead with
closing this?
What are the impacts?
I have a question about scenario three, the 9,000 plus
existing daily trips rerouted.
But mathematically that wouldn't be 9,000 people inconven
ienced because let's say you
have got one person who wants to drive down both Highland
and Avenue C. So I think that
number, when we put that number out there, I think it might
be a little shocking.
But if people think that through, it's not like 6,000 more
people are going to be inconvenienced
daily.
It's fewer than that because many of those people would be
traveling both routes.
Correct.
So we are presenting absolute worst case if everyone is
independent of each other which
may happen one of the days, once in a blue moon.
But yes, you're right.
A lot of people that are traveling on Avenue C may turn on
Highland and then continue going
east.
And that's a possibility.
So while looking at the impacts, we're definitely focusing
on the worst case scenario.
These are the intersections that were impacted and required
mitigations.
They're spread out and these are major intersections along
Bonnie Bray, North Texas as suspected
along Welch.
I think Malone and Scripture, a lot of folks can relate to
that one.
That one's an always stop.
So what would be the cost estimate to fix some of these
intersections?
And it's broken down into two aspects.
One is due to the closure, which means purely shutting down
those streets.
What are the impacts versus other impacts meaning impacts
related to the growth of traffic.
Now growth of traffic is not necessarily completely based
on UNTs growth.
It is also based on the whole area growing and some of the
through traffic, say for example
along Bonnie Bray or Carroll, that will play a big part
into it.
So the cost for fixing impacts due to the closure is
separated out.
For example, if we go with, this should be scenario three,
apologize.
But if we go with this cost, 117,000 is strictly due to the
closure, but the overall needs
are 2.6.
So that's where the city has to do a better plan or put a
plan together to how do you
address these impacts?
When do you need to address them?
What is the phasing for putting some of these improvements?
It's a big number.
So we need to plan it better.
We need to focus our attention.
On the city side, we've already started looking at Bonnie
Bray corridor and how can we fix
Bonnie Bray.
We're also looking at this Welch.
How can we better fix it, make it more conducive to bicycle
pedestrian facilities?
So we are working towards, yes sir.
I don't see you factoring the extension of Panhandle over
to the service road.
Yes so as part of the traffic model that was looked at, it
's not shown in the map, but
the traffic model did consider the circulation associated
with that and that connection moving
forward.
So when this growth was calculated, we have a traffic model
that looks at a future network.
What are the possible streets that will come in?
And yes, this is inbuilt in our master plan.
So it is included in the model.
It's just not in the map.
Is it possible that over time?
There might be an option for?
Option for.
At this time, UNT says that this is their master plan, that
they only want to go with
the closure of those two streets.
At this point, they don't have any more options in there.
And how are the costs split between the two?
So the cost is split between the two based on if you just
close the street and there
is no growth in the area, then this is what UNT closures
would require to fix, all these
intersections.
So that's the cost that was calculated.
If the cost implications associated with the growth are
much higher and we're planning
some of it upfront.
Yes.
Stay close to Avenue C at Mulberry this weekend, to Hickory
.
I mean to Avenue C at Mulberry all the way to Hickory.
Avenue C between Mulberry and Hickory?
Yeah.
Okay.
Can you repeat the question?
I'm sorry.
Can you repeat the question?
What related to that?
I was driving it this weekend for the game and when I go
past the environmental services
on Mulberry, you look to your left and the whole street's
closed at Avenue C and it's
closed to Mulberry.
So I guess they're already starting or something else.
No, it is something.
It's probably a utility or street or drainage project or
some of the closure associated
with buildings around UNT.
It's not related to anything.
Oh, okay.
This is, yeah, we're still further away.
We're far from getting there.
I think the next discussion that the city's going to
probably have on these closures is
what do we do with the utilities?
What type of easements?
What kind of access we have to the utilities that are
currently under these streets?
So that's the next discussion and then it's a process.
We'll slowly get there.
Yeah, so it said interested in closing.
So is the thing is you'd like to get there but you're
trying to figure out is this even
possible?
What happens if X, Y, and Z happens?
Is there going to be too traffic and it just can't, too
much traffic and it just can't
happen?
Is that where we're at?
Correct.
So this is a feasibility sort of study.
Even if it's, we wanted to find out if it was feasible and
now that we think, yeah, these
costs don't look super high, it is a possibility then we go
on to the next level, which is,
okay, what are the things that are necessary and how do we
fund it?
In what fashion?
How do we phase them?
What year certain improvements go in?
All that plan has to be put in place.
So we're pretty much planning.
We're in the first step of planning.
So why do they want to close some of these particular
streets?
They just don't want traffic in there at all?
They don't want the students have to deal with traffic?
Yes.
Ideally, their main master plan calls for this to be
pedestrian walkways or pedestrian
mall areas, if you may, where kids can or students can
actually walk on the street and
they're completely shut down to traffic.
So that's what they want to create is more of a pedestrian
campus experience.
One more question.
Do you know, have they talked to the students about this?
I mean, has the student senate been approached?
Do they have they taken it or is this the university like
this is what we want?
So as part of the transportation master plan and it's I
think available online, there were
extensive student surveys that they had conducted and based
on that, this is the plan that they
came up with.
How would emergency vehicles be accessing kind of the inner
campus?
So yes, so that's part of our discussion that we're going
to have.
Do they completely shut down with blocking everything?
Would there be gates?
Would there be any emergency access provided?
That's part of the bigger discussion that we're going to
have.
And if they're going to completely shut down, what are the
cross street access that they
can provide?
So we're not there yet.
We'll still try to figure out.
The second one would be what about handicap access to the
center?
Because you're moving some streets and some parking further
out and it's going to make
it more difficult for some handicap access like a lot of
programs at the music building.
Yes now that's a good question.
We are working with UNT so that's something that will be
brought up in our discussion.
If you're taking away these accesses, what happens to some
of the parking spaces that
wouldn't be at-- I mean you wouldn't be able to get to
those parking spaces.
Do they go away?
What about the handicapped spaces that come with those
parking spaces?
Definitely that's a question that will be asked.
Yeah, so people don't have to go several blocks to access,
you know.
Correct.
I'll just add, I mean there's a lot of campuses that have
interior closed streets.
It's actually pretty common.
UT is a good example and they do have access for cars to
get on campus for emergencies
and then also I think they do have spots where cars can
pull in.
So I think there's solutions to that.
The question for me is if UNT's campus has the density in
the spots they want to do it
is my question because most campuses when they have those
roads, it's like really dense
all around and UT has so many parking lots in between but
maybe they're planning buildings
for those.
I don't know.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of campuses are going that
direction.
They want their campus more of a walking, biking area as
opposed to allowing vehicles
to interact.
I think along Avenue C at Chestnut and some of these
intersections there's a lot of pedestrians
crossing so to begin with today, vehicle through traffic is
very restricted in certain hours.
It's hard to cross that intersection sometimes.
So they're trying to make sure that students don't have to
interact with vehicles so that
they're safer.
That's their long-term goal.
And there are already been some other places on campus
where there must have at some point
been a through street but they've closed them.
So long ago we don't know but like right behind my building
over off Hickory behind the auditorium
building, there are a number of handicapped spots there.
There's some motorcycle parking back there but the ingress
at that point off Fry Street
looks like at some point was a full-on street coming into
campus but they just kind of blocked
stuff off but they left all the parking.
So a lot of the, even in the old part of campus, there's a
lot of handicapped parking internally.
So near the back doors but again, it's still accessible.
And when they make these changes, they tend to make a lot
of improvements to pedestrian
towns which can be really helpful for handicapped bicycles,
pedestrians.
I know we relieve a lot of complaints of students and staff
on Hick, on Island.
Yes.
If you do something to, sorry, go ahead.
We got the other chairman here.
How is this going to work with the smaller airplane, Fry
Street, or Oakgate, right?
Well, you know.
Huh?
Well, we talked about this last week and in some ways, you
know, we're always going to,
we have to work in conjunction obviously with UNT but at
that point, we got the same presentation
last Thursday as we got today.
So the city and UNT are still, you know, doing, running
numbers, doing preliminary considerations.
You see any major, you see any major red flags?
I don't.
I think a couple people on the steering committee may have
had some concerns but I don't think
it's anything we can't work out.
All right, so this is the schedule we've already talked
about.
We're wrapping the draft report so we are still reviewing
it.
We have not commented it.
We're in this phase and we should be wrapping the study
soon and then folding it into the
Oakgate way, specific plan.
Any more questions?
I think we're, last slide.
Okay.
Anything else on this?
Okay.
That then brings us to 1F, TSC 18-041 which is staff
reports including the matrix.
Let me get this open here.
Okay.
There are several items that were added starting from item
number 9 that were added in the
last meeting.
Can you put it up there?
Yeah, actually.
I don't have a copy.
Okay.
So there we are.
There are several items that have been discussed.
They're old, I think some of them are really tied with
other, like this one, the small
area plan.
They're tied with some of the other projects and ongoing
things within the community.
Old North University, this issue has been resolved.
The intersection, we've implemented northbound and south
bound left turn lanes.
So now there is a clear distinction when people approach in
north and south direction that
they're not confused whether someone's going through the
intersection straight or making
a left or making a right.
So it is helping this intersection.
We're still monitoring.
We wrapped this up a couple weeks ago, I think.
Old Alton, students walking without sidewalk.
TechStat has, it is a current work zone along FM 2181 and
TechStat through Denton ISD is
working on creating a solution.
I think this one, they're using a parking lot that is south
of 2181 and students are
parking there and actually crossing.
So we worked with TechStat to put in a pedestrian signal at
Old Alton so that kids can actually
cross.
There was no signal.
They were unprotected.
They could not cross.
I think PD was helping us out when the signal didn't exist
and now that the signal is there,
they can actually push the button, get a pedestrian signal
and go across.
So that's something that we're, so slowly we're working
through this list as things
move forward.
Mingo Road, this is ongoing.
We're working with TWU, how we can better use their
existing golf course.
Pats, some of them are permanent concrete paths.
How can we connect to those?
So that would be something that would be an interim fix
until we design and build Mingo
with sidewalks.
This is another short term.
This is another project related to the small area plan,
Fort Worth at Collins, left turns.
So once that plan is implemented, we have an implementation
.
We looked at this intersection as part of our traffic
impact study and I think one of
the mitigations is to put those left turns onto Fort Worth
Drive.
So yes, at some point once we get the funding identified.
So a lot of these are either on the way or on our list to
be completed.
We added a bunch more starting with item nine and yeah, we
haven't really had a chance to
look at it.
I'd like to clarify that one.
It really is not, it would benefit pedestrians, but I'm
thinking more of motorists.
Is there approaching South Hunterdale, is there approaching
Mingo?
If you're going to make a left turn, the way the, you've
got the poles and then you got
the fencing right there and the fencing angles and it's
difficult to see oncoming traffic
until you have to pull it way forward.
So that would tie into our discussion at TWA.
That could be folded.
Just fold that one into that and take that one out.
I think part of the discussion is to take that fence
completely out so that it becomes
an open area for public.
There are some concerns by, safety concerns by PD there,
but we're still working through
that, but that fencing will be in that discussion.
Yeah, I was just thinking fencing is a nice quick, easy
thing that could be done as these
others are being worked on.
Okay.
And then we are looking into that.
I think I had a, stop signs are for yield for bicyclists.
We had a discussion with our bike pet coordinator.
He'll bring an item soon forward.
So we'll see what are the options and explore the options
or provide more information as
part of a next agenda item.
Yes.
Can I, I don't know anything about that since I wasn't here
last.
What is that about?
So this particular is, there is something called Idaho stop
, which means in the state
of Idaho, bicyclists can actually use a stop sign as a
yield sign.
So when they're approaching an intersection, they see that
there's no one, they can go
through the intersection by slowing down.
Okay.
Rest of the states don't have that.
You have to have complete stop for bicycles.
I thought there's no other states that have adopted it.
I thought, I thought quite a few states have adopted it.
I don't believe, but we'll look into that.
That's exactly the information that our bike pet
coordinator will bring forward.
Cool.
And would agendize that particular item.
Temporary improvements to Hickory.
Yes, we're working on the project.
So you say temporary for temporary bike lanes.
Okay.
Any more, we can start writing them down.
Yeah.
So Melissa, this is a point where, you know, since the
commission is also like the eyes
on the street and you talk to people.
So if you are running into yourself little places where you
're realizing pedestrian safety,
bike safety, anything like that could be improved.
You can bring that and put that on the matrix.
If somebody talks to you and says, oh, I see this at this
time of the day, you can bring
that.
A lot of these little things, you know, they are definitely
more granular.
Many staff isn't out there in the streets as much as we are
.
And so, well, sometimes they are.
But a lot of these things are really super quick fixes.
Some of them are paint and some signage and a lot of the,
but you can bring things in
and put them on the matrix.
Well, I was going to say, can I, may I?
So I talked to somebody tonight who is a teacher over at UN
T.
And his comment to me was that on Welch, and I had him, I
had this with me.
On Welch he says going, where is it?
I have to find it now.
So I guess it's Welch and over by the Union.
When you, when you are going, that would be east and then,
wait, is that right?
Welch goes north-south.
Okay, when you, there is a road that runs into Welch that
goes east and west.
When you go east on it to hit Welch and then you go up Wel
ch, he says that there is, it's
like three lanes and there is poor signage.
And he's seen multiple times where people don't know which
way they are going because
the roads aren't marked well.
There's not like a dotted line for the turn.
And that was just tonight.
He said he had did a whole presentation on it in front of
the Student Senate.
I can have him bring it.
I can have him give it to me if I need, you know.
Yeah, it would be helpful if we can provide more
information on the exact location.
And just bring it up next time.
Yeah, that would be helpful.
Okay, I can do that.
Okay.
Any more?
I'd like to add, as I talked to you earlier, that I'd like
us to look at maybe quarterly
receive reports from the police department on accidents,
pedestrian, motor vehicle, bicycle.
So we can, there may not be anything we can do about them,
but at least some education
for us and maybe for the citizens.
Okay.
I know if there's any causes we can determine that there's
anything we can impact, you know.
We just need the data.
We need the data to be able to do something.
I would agree.
I mean, I, as a, because I am a bike commuter, there are
many times I see people do things
and I'm like, why are you doing that?
You're just making, you're going to get hurt.
So I think, you know, how can we educate?
Like if you know what's happening, then is there a way we
can educate people?
Okay.
Anybody have anything else for the matrix?
I do have one, and this maybe doesn't need to go.
I don't know, just a quick question.
So I was just thinking about those alleyways on, between
Locust and Elm, you know, that
have businesses along both Walnut and Mulberry.
You guys are familiar, so Mulberry has several businesses
on it, including what's the nice,
there's a nice restaurant there that everybody goes to.
It's right across from Mulberry Street Cantina.
Oh, okay.
That is Mulberry.
So those two alleyways, one side, yeah, Hannah's.
And so on one side you have a sidewalk, but it tends to,
whenever I've walked through
that area and gone through that area, people on the other
side don't make their way over
to the sidewalk and we kind of just have cars parking on
the side.
I wonder if there's just a temporary, an easy solution
where we could make lines that created
a sidewalk there.
I don't know what it is.
So it's mainly on the north side.
I think the south side is fine.
But people tend to just walk in the street and then cars
are coming around.
It's also next to a lot of bars.
So there could be an easy solution.
I don't know.
It would be helpful if you send me a street view showing
the parking area, because we
received a similar complaint at the intersection of Elm and
Mulberry on the south side of Mulberry.
And there were parallel parked cars near this property,
near this building that almost encroached
into the sidewalk.
And all we did is we definitely re-striped the sidewalk,
delineated better, and then
the cars were pushed out in the street.
Well, on Mulberry, I mean on the north side, there's not a
clear sidewalk anywhere.
There's ramps coming out from several of the buildings.
And then you just have cars and dumpsters taking up the
rest of the space.
So people just walk in the street pretty much whenever they
're going through.
But it seems like there's room there.
It just seems like when you clear a direction on where cars
park.
Like if we had a line for parallel parking, then maybe that
space between would just be
pedestrian.
So I've got it up right now.
I don't know if that's helpful.
I could show you after.
But I don't know what the actual answer is, because it's
kind of a weird space.
Yeah, well, we'll have to really take a look at it of what
exactly we can do.
We can't have a walking space within the parking and the
actual street.
So we'll have to see how we can--
OK, we got you.
We can stripe it.
We can make a better use of that area.
At that corner, there is not a curb, is there?
Is it still--
On the north side?
On the south side of that intersection?
Because that used to be an old Greyhound bus depot.
Which building?
On the other side?
Yeah, on the south--
The Trophy Shop?
Yeah, where the Trophy Shop.
Yeah, so is there a curb that has been built there now?
No, yeah, that's a whole weird corner, too.
And obviously, because there's nothing there, people can
also swoop around the corner into
a little alley where people are walking.
That is actually a very good point.
So just clear-- just clarifying where people are supposed
to be, there's no lines anywhere.
Yeah, is that part of the MUSE project, then?
Well, it is.
Mulberry is not, so--
OK.
Oh, OK.
So we can look at specifically Mulberry and see.
OK, great.
What is the MUSE project?
The city is looking at doing some traffic calming and some
work on what used to be the alleyways
behind Locust and Elm Street.
So these are the streets we're talking about.
Austin and then Walnut.
I think they've worked on Cedar quite a bit.
Cedar is completely updated, but we're looking-- focusing
on these three streets as part of
the MUSE.
OK.
OK, does anybody have anything else?
All right.
Do we have a motion to adjourn?
I motion to re-adjourn.
OK.
Everyone in favor?
Yes.
Aye.
OK, I agree.
Unanimous.
OK.
Thank you all.