WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.000 The October 8th, 2018 Public Utilities Board for Denton. 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:09.400 We do have a quorum, that was a close call there. 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:11.259 We do have a quorum. 00:00:11.259 --> 00:00:13.960 What I'd like to do is we have a closed meeting 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:15.679 scheduled today and I'd like to move that 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:17.160 to the end of the agenda. 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.199 That'll be a little more efficient for staff 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:21.920 to be able to handle that item. 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:25.399 So our first item is a work session item 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:27.399 to receive a report and hold discussion 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.120 on the five-year update of the water 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:30.960 and wastewater impact fees. 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:41.280 - Good morning. 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:43.280 DSR, Director of Wastewater Utilities. 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:46.960 This is the update for the impact fees 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.280 and I just wanna go through a little bit 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:52.079 about why we have impact fees. 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:56.799 When a new development comes in, in the city, 00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:59.600 whether it is commercial, industrial, or residential, 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.040 it creates a need for water or wastewater service. 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:06.879 That need is an impact, creates an impact 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.239 on the water wastewater system. 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:13.799 And state law allows cities to charge for that impact 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:15.400 on the water wastewater system. 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.760 So how we go about it, you know, 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:24.439 this was done through the developers back in 1987. 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:26.439 They actually went to the legislature 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.519 and had this impact fee law put into practice 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:31.799 because it creates a level playing field 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:33.560 for all the developers in the city. 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.799 There are prescribed methods that we have to use 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:41.840 to calculate the impact fees 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:46.239 and it requires land use assumptions for 10 years out 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:48.400 and based on the land use assumptions, 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.040 which show what will be the residential, commercial, 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:53.920 or industrial use of that land, 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.319 we determine the population 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.319 and then what impact it's going to have on the system. 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.200 And that impact can be on the existing capacity 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.760 or it may need new water stream lines, 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:09.479 pump stations, or addition to treatment plants. 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:11.599 So we can charge for that impact 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:13.919 and that's how there's a lot of calculation 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:14.960 that goes behind it. 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:16.879 There's a lot of computer models 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:18.879 that we use for water wastewater 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.840 to develop those impact fee projects. 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.639 There's a lot of financial analysis that goes behind it. 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:28.560 We do this every five years. 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.560 We started in 1998 with impact fees for water wastewater. 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:36.960 We had an update in 2003, 2008, 2013, 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.360 and now we are doing in 2018. 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.800 We went through RFQ process 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:43.120 and through the RFQ process, 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:47.639 we selected Kimley-Horn to do the analysis for us. 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:50.240 So with that, I'm going to turn this over to John Atkins 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.280 with Kimley-Horn to go through that. 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.199 (papers rustling) 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:01.039 - Thank you, PS. 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.080 I think PS just gave half the presentation right there. 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:05.319 (Karen laughing) 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:06.159 But that's okay. 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:08.159 We can repeat that. 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:10.960 Things like this, if it's new to you, 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:12.879 it's kind of like the rule of, 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:14.479 you need to hear something about four times 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:16.039 before it kind of sinks in a little bit 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.599 so it doesn't hurt to repeat particular items. 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:20.520 All right. 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:22.360 Let's get. 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:27.960 Let's set up here. 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:35.680 Okay, let's be sure, yeah. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.520 Okay. 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.780 First of all, I'd like to thank staff, 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.439 specifically Tim Fisher and PS Aurora. 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:44.800 They've been a part of this for the last 20 years 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:46.000 of doing this work. 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.879 And obviously we consulted and leaned on them 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.919 back and forth quite a bit on doing the project. 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:54.360 And we want to appreciate their efforts 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:57.479 and guidance on the particular project. 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:58.919 All right, let's first start out 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.560 with the water impact fee update. 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:04.879 Okay, we're gonna go through some, 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:06.319 there's gonna be a lot of words on the screen 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:07.879 over probably the next three or four slides 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.560 just talking about kind of administrative type stuff 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:12.759 and definitions and that sort of thing. 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:15.759 We'll start out with what is an impact fee? 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:16.800 PS mentioned it. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.800 It's a one-time charge assessed to new development 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.600 for a portion of costs related to 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.319 a specific capital improvement program. 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:26.920 Now what we're talking about is 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.480 what PS mentioned earlier. 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.680 The projects are identified 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.759 through your master planning process 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:40.339 and then additional growth over the next 10 years 00:04:40.339 --> 00:04:42.920 is defined and then that's where 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:45.839 the one-time charge comes to the new development 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:46.660 as it comes in. 00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:47.959 I'll just rattle through here. 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:49.720 Impact fees are a mechanism for funding 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:51.399 the infrastructure necessary to comment 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:52.240 new development. 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:54.480 So we're talking about new development here, 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.319 the predominant thing. 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:56.639 Impact fees are limited to water, 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:58.879 wastewater, roadway and drainage. 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.240 What we're talking about here today 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.279 is just water and wastewater. 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:05.519 Roadways, y'all do have that in y'all's 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.720 city's program also, but that's on a different 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:11.920 time schedule than the water and wastewater. 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:18.019 Okay, principles, purpose of why cities do impact fees. 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.279 The fundamental thing here is growth 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:25.079 in the form of new development should basically pay 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.199 its fair share as it comes in. 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.560 If growth doesn't pay for that, 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:33.819 the burden becomes, leans back on your current rate payers. 00:05:33.819 --> 00:05:37.079 So what you're trying to do is take the burden off 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:40.240 your current citizens that pay through utility rates 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.100 and you're trying to put a little bit of that burden 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:45.120 back on the new development that's coming in 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:46.480 to the community. 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.620 And that's if we walk through here, 00:05:48.620 --> 00:05:51.160 new development pays for a share of the city's cost 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:53.639 to provide water and wastewater capacity improvements 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.240 that will serve the proposed development. 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.480 Allows cities to recoup a portion of the cost 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.259 providing improvements. 00:06:00.259 --> 00:06:03.740 Ensures that fees spent in a particular area 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:07.300 are where that development occurs. 00:06:07.300 --> 00:06:10.100 And then it provides a systematic structured approach 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:11.620 to assess the fees. 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.519 And then the bottom line here is, 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.680 it facilitates growth paying for a portion of that growth. 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:25.120 Okay, the legislative basis for doing the project, 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.680 or doing the program in itself. 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:30.839 Like PS mentioned a little bit ago, 30 years ago, 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:32.600 the actual home builders, 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:35.439 a lot of people think about developers 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.160 not wanting impact fees in communities. 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:39.879 Well, it's actually the real estate 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:42.319 and development community that brought forward 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.970 the sponsored legislation that wanted impact fees in cities 00:06:45.970 --> 00:06:46.199 . 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:47.879 Basically what it was is each, 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:49.800 the developments wanted to be treated fairly 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:54.279 across the board when it came to their capital 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:57.360 that they may or may not have to provide 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:01.360 for the new facility coming in. 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:04.639 So this allows and created a level playing field 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:07.379 where they'd be treated the same when it came associated 00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:10.399 to cost and their usage on the system. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:13.920 So to rattle through here, no impact fees 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.120 except as authorized. 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.379 So the legislation's authorizing cities 00:07:17.379 --> 00:07:18.920 to move forward with this. 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.519 And as the city decides to do so, 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.480 they're allowed to do that. 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:24.980 There's some details in here, 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:27.000 precise methodology prescribed. 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.600 We define service area very specifically 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:31.519 that has to be defined. 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.519 Service units is another thing, 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.199 that's the growth component. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.399 We're looking at what's gonna happen 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:37.660 over the next 10 years. 00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:40.800 Another term that you'll see in the study 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.160 and then also in this presentation for service units 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.800 is also called single family equivalent. 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.660 What we're talking about is we define a service unit 00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:53.439 in the study as the amount of water usage 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.680 that a 5/8 by 3/4 inch meter uses. 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.720 And that's equivalent to what a single family home 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:00.699 typically uses. 00:08:00.699 --> 00:08:03.019 So you'll hear that service unit 00:08:03.019 --> 00:08:06.639 and single family equivalent term interchangeably 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:10.100 a little bit, but they're basically the same thing. 00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:12.879 And then we look at capacity analysis that PS mentioned 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.000 and also the land use assumptions, 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:16.800 which we worked with the planning department 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.720 and then also ties to the water 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.360 and wastewater master plans that were already done. 00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:25.680 Complex adoption procedure, 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:26.639 where we're talking about that, 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.959 it has to go through a capital improvement advisory 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:29.459 committee, 00:08:29.459 --> 00:08:32.059 which is typically the city's planning 00:08:32.059 --> 00:08:36.399 and zoning commission plus ad hoc member from the ETJ. 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:38.720 That's represent that we'll bring the same type 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.679 of information forward to them and get input from them. 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.519 And then it has to move forward to council. 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.559 So it goes through PUB, it gets looked at, 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.639 it gets looked at by the capital improvement advisory 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.080 committee and then it gets looked at again by the council. 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:56.080 So it's a very thorough vetting through the governing body. 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.840 And then lastly, the administrative rules 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.519 for how you process it and deal with it administratively 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:06.879 gets set by the law, so once again, 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.080 it was initiated in '87, it's not a new thing. 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.809 Sometimes because it only gets talked about every five 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:14.320 years, 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.279 it can be unfamiliar to boards and commissions 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.019 that may turn over a little quicker than that. 00:09:21.019 --> 00:09:24.480 So sometimes when people hear about it, they think it's new 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.240 and it's actually been established around 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.960 for a fairly long period of time now. 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.399 Okay, assumptions, here's some of the detailed assumptions 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.519 that were built into the study that was done. 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.320 Land use determines the type of growth you have. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:43.840 Like I said, we worked with planning 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.080 and your master plannings are all using 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.440 the exact same growth information. 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.399 And then that's what we segue and use that 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.639 in the impact fee study. 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.360 Growth requires additional capacity 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:55.960 in the form of capital program. 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.159 The water and wastewater system models 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:02.480 accurately determine the additional capacity needed, 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.740 types of projects meet those needs 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:06.360 in the approximate timing. 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:10.009 So we utilize the city's overall capital improvement 00:10:10.009 --> 00:10:10.559 program 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.559 to then narrow down on an impact fee 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:14.860 capital improvement program. 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:17.659 They're close, but they're not exactly the same. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.279 The capital cost estimates are accurate for this timeframe 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:25.259 and then the growth, once again, the last statements 00:10:25.259 --> 00:10:27.759 about growth projections for the 10-year window. 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:28.879 So when we do the study, 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:30.840 it's looking at a 10-year timeframe 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.919 starting in 2018 through 2028. 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.440 And then it gets revisited every five years 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.840 because your growth in the economics 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.720 are just the way things may happen 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.159 in both the local economy or nationwide 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:49.159 can make that fluctuate. 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:51.200 So you try to revisit it every five years. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.879 You can do it sooner than that if you'd like, 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:55.820 if there's some pretty dramatic changes, 00:10:55.820 --> 00:10:56.919 but you don't have to. 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.120 Okay, a little bit of history on the update. 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.120 The city of Denton's been doing this since 1998. 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:06.240 So this is the fifth go around. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:10.299 State law requires it to be done every five years. 00:11:10.299 --> 00:11:14.159 And then one unique feature with Denton is it's not unusual 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:14.159 , 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.759 but we have three impact fee zones for the water system. 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.799 And we have one impact fee zone for the wastewater system. 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.980 We'll show you a map of that here in just a few minutes. 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.240 And the next thing, this is pretty busy screen here 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:32.500 about how impact fees are calculated. 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:38.120 What I'd like to do, some of the items you see on the left, 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.960 the land use assumptions, population, five-year CIP, 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.960 and the consumptive use and the single-family equivalent 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:51.039 are items that go into this. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.200 What I wanna just focus on a little bit here is 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:56.960 because this is water, it's divided up into three zones. 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.200 So you see a zone 1A, a 1B, and a two. 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.799 An example at the bottom here, 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.879 some of the math you see here is an example 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:08.120 focusing on zone 1A. 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.120 So what I wanna show you here, 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:12.759 let's just jump to the bottom a minute. 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:17.080 And the actual calculation of an impact fee 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:22.080 per service unit is a pretty simple math calculation. 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:27.080 What we're looking at is the 10-year maximum recoverable 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:27.080 cost 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.480 by that zone, which we've determined to be 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.639 a little over $27 million, 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.960 divided by the amount of growth 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:40.440 that's assumed to happen within that area. 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.120 Based as, you can call it a single-family equivalent 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.879 or a service unit. 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.080 And so the math is fairly easy mathematically. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.500 It's just cost divided by growth. 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.759 And so that's the exercise that go through. 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:55.799 Now you see a lot of additional line items here 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.679 to get down to the bold $27 million number. 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.200 And those are some of the details that are in the report 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:06.340 with regards to financing, existing fund balances, 00:13:06.340 --> 00:13:09.159 and pre-credit calculation. 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:10.480 That's kind of the sum of that. 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.240 And then what we do is that one last item 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.200 is a credit for utility revenue. 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:19.360 And what we're talking about here is 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.600 the term double-dipping is used. 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.399 And what it's talking about here is 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.559 if someone comes in, new development comes in, 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.399 they pay their impact fee. 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.080 What you don't wanna happen is, 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:36.799 is then they also pay in their utility rate 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:38.440 a portion of growth. 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:41.360 So what you do is take that portion of their growth 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.559 that's in the utility revenue calculation, 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:46.440 you take that out of the impact fee. 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.980 So you basically credit back a portion 00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:55.919 of the utility revenue that is for growth. 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.879 You take it out of the impact fee value. 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.039 So you're not double-dipping somebody that comes in 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:01.799 and pays an impact fee. 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:03.879 That's kind of a unique feature. 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.120 What happens is if the city doesn't go through an exercise 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.919 to actually determine that number 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:12.080 using a financial consultant, which we did on this project, 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:16.240 you have to immediately cut the number by 50%. 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.000 So the legislature says, hey, if you do an analysis, 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.600 you can come up with the actual number, 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.840 this little, the $900,000 number. 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.559 If you don't, then you have to cut 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.879 basically the $25 million number in half 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:33.879 and then run the calculation. 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:36.759 So it's always of good value for most communities 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:40.179 to do the analysis. 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:42.159 Okay. 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.120 What's payable and not payable? 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.200 Run through the list here. 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.000 Components that can be paid by the program. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.159 The biggest item is typically construction cost 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:53.840 for the capital improvements, 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:55.679 survey and engineering fees 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.360 to design those capital improvements, 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:03.360 land acquisition, cost, including court awards. 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.080 That's part of the design phase of those projects. 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.000 Debt service for the impact fee projects 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.480 and also studies and updates. 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.480 For example, our cost for doing the study 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.600 for you guys is rolled into this 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.620 and growth pays for the cost of our services provided today 00:15:20.620 --> 00:15:20.879 . 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.559 Things that aren't on the list. 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.480 Projects not included on the CIP. 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.279 So it's really important that the map that's in here, 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.500 that defines what projects can be paid for. 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:34.580 That's the law, it's very specific about that. 00:15:34.580 --> 00:15:36.320 Repair and operation and maintenance. 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.840 Those are things that are occurring on the system today 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:42.559 that you don't have future development paid for. 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.840 Upgrade to existing service 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.240 and then administrative costs for operating the program. 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:49.679 So staff costs for administrating the program 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.440 and stuff like that can't be part of the calculation. 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.279 Okay, now we're gonna jump to some 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:58.120 of the real numbers here a little bit. 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:06.399 The three zones we talked about. 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:09.460 Let me do something real quick. 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:12.919 We talked to Kenny about this to illustrate what this is. 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.879 I'm gonna jump down real quick here and I'll jump back. 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:21.679 Okay, I'm going, the zones you'll see here in a minute, 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:23.679 I wanna show you an illustration of that. 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:25.240 We've been looking at a lot of words on the screen. 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.360 So this is the water CCN boundary. 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:31.840 This defines the boundary that can be the service area 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:33.639 or multiple service areas. 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.519 Okay, this blue area you see here. 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:39.399 Now what the city has done is divided 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.120 on the water service area side 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:43.320 is divide the city up into three zones. 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:45.960 One A, one B and two. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.399 And so to get a visual representation 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.720 of what I'm gonna go back to in just a minute 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.080 with regards to the values by zone, 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.559 these are the zones that we're talking about here 00:16:58.559 --> 00:16:59.399 that I wanted to show you. 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.200 So I'm gonna jump back up real quick. 00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:08.059 Okay, so service area zone one A, one B and two. 00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:11.200 If you look over the right hand side to the SFE 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.480 or the single family equivalent growth for those zones, 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.319 you can see a little over 7,000, 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:22.319 you got 7,001 in one A, a little over 7,001 B 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.740 and then two has a little over 600, 00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:29.839 totaling a growth of about 15,773 service units 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:31.839 throughout the entire area. 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:39.920 The projects, we have 17 existing projects on the list. 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.539 We have 15 proposed, adding up to 32. 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:50.200 And those total project costs are just under $400 million. 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.359 Now this isn't the cost that's in the impact fee, 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.319 but this is the total project cost 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.339 that the city is looking at from the study. 00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:04.119 Okay, this is a breakdown of one of the tables in the study 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:04.400 . 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.000 It's pretty busy. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.200 It's not all the project list. 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.799 If we tried to put all the project list on the screen, 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.000 it'd be tiny. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.640 So what we did was kind of chop a little bit off 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.359 and show you the upper part 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.339 or some of the existing projects that are on the list, 00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:24.339 the lower are future projects on the list. 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.599 To kind of understand what's going on, 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.119 we got a project description. 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:29.339 You can see the project names here. 00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:32.819 The capacity of these projects used in 2018. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.180 How much of those projects will be utilized in 2028? 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:42.599 The next column is just the difference between those two. 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:47.599 So simple math, for example, 90%, 100% minus 9%, 10%. 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.799 So that's how much gets utilized. 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.119 And then here is, what you see over here 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:54.279 is the total project cost that added up 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.000 to that close to 400 million earlier. 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.339 And then what you do is multiply that value 00:19:00.339 --> 00:19:02.400 times the column here, 10%. 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.759 And that's what you get is the recoverable cost 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:05.920 in the 10-year window. 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.359 So that's the critical number. 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:13.019 So you see at the bottom, the total cost values here. 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.539 Okay, I'm gonna drill down a little bit more 00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:19.299 on this particular item. 00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:22.359 And we've highlighted a few projects we'll talk about. 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:26.319 The first one I wanna talk about is actually project three. 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:30.859 And what we have here, 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.000 wrap your hand, this is the 54-inch 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.839 finished water transmission line. 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.759 It's existing, it's an existing project. 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.680 What we show is that 35% of that project 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.480 is already utilized today. 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:45.980 So you can't charge for that. 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:48.079 It's being used by your current citizens. 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:54.440 25% of that same pipeline is gonna be utilized 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:56.180 over the next 10 years. 00:19:56.180 --> 00:19:59.759 So that falls into the impact fee 10-year window. 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.920 So this is the value that we wanna try to recover 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.000 over the next 10 years. 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.799 And then what we have out here at the 40% 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.160 is future recoverable costs beyond the 10-year window. 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.680 So what happens is when you travel five years from now 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.640 and you update again, 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.279 you'll be able to recover a portion of this 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:21.440 into the future. 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.140 So it allows you to maximize recovery of a project 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.519 through its life. 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:27.960 Yes, ma'am. 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.660 - So we already paid for this 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:34.160 and we're just dividing it up the way existing? 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:35.000 - Yes, that is correct. 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:35.819 Yeah, what happens-- 00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:36.660 - Just wanted to clarify that. 00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:39.660 - Yeah, just any kind of infrastructure, for example, 00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.859 a 54-inch pipeline is a large line. 00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:47.700 It's gotta last into the, in perpetuity, but basically, 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:49.880 at least 50 years, if not more. 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:53.039 And so you oversize it when it first gets built 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:53.880 because you don't wanna go out there 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.579 and build a 12-inch line 00:20:55.579 --> 00:20:58.440 and then five years later build a 20-inch line 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:00.119 and then five years later take it out 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.160 and build a 30-inch line. 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.519 So you build the 54 now. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.559 And then, so it's got a significant amount of capacity 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:07.599 when it first gets built. 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.059 And I can show you another example of that 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:10.160 here in a minute. 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.960 And then, so you slowly can recover it over time 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.640 as you continue to administer impact fees over time. 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.640 - I just wanted to make that clarification, yeah. 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.480 - Yes, thank you. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.880 Okay. 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.539 This is a, we're gonna jump to the next two projects 00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:26.819 that were highlighted on there. 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.440 We have the existing Ray Roberts Water Treatment Plant, 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.519 and then there's a proposed expansion 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:34.019 in the near future. 00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:35.200 And we're gonna talk about this. 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:37.359 As you travel along in the next 10 years 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:38.420 in your impact fee window, 00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:41.400 this is an example of what's happening. 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.980 So existing capacity in the existing Ray Roberts, 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.299 we've utilized 60% already. 00:21:49.299 --> 00:21:53.039 We're gonna utilize another 40% over the next, 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:54.720 over into the future. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.279 Right now, the proposed Lake Ray Roberts expansion 00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:58.799 doesn't exist. 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.660 So there's gonna be 100% that's eligible 00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:03.819 in the near future, but not today. 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:08.500 As we travel over the next five years, 00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:12.759 we're gonna utilize more of the Ray Roberts plant 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.440 and can recover 20% of that over the next 10 years. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.279 And this is what it would be in five years. 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.279 And then we've got additional capacity 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.920 that we can recover the additional 20% 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:28.960 in the next following five years. 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.720 We're looking at kind of on a phase basis here. 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:35.259 And you can see that we still haven't built 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:38.720 the expansion yet, but we will in the near future here. 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.680 And that's what the third analysis is. 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.460 As we get to the 10-year build out, 00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:47.220 or the 10-year planning window, 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:51.720 we've now fully utilized 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.519 all of the Ray Roberts facility. 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.579 So we were looking at recovering the 60 and the 40. 00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:00.119 And then we've built the expansion 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.660 and we get to recover about 4% of that, 00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:07.799 of the expanded treatment facility 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:08.960 in the 10-year timeframe. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.359 And as we go past that, 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:12.359 we'll be able to recover more and more. 00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:16.079 Okay, we showed you that. 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:18.480 We showed you the service area boundaries here. 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.440 Here's a photo of the capital improvement plan map, 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.599 the impact fee CIP map. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:28.920 It's in your report. 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:35.019 And here are the recoverable values. 00:23:35.019 --> 00:23:37.079 This is what we wanted to get down to. 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:39.680 This is, so right now, 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:46.000 in 2013, the maximum recoverable fee, 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.799 you can see for the three service area 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.440 are listed across here. 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:54.200 So the max fee for 1A, a little over $3,000. 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:56.759 1B was a little over 5,000. 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:01.279 And two was a little over 5,500. 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.400 Your current fees, what the council approved for, 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:07.980 was a little bit less than those values that you see here. 00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:10.519 So this is where your current fee is today. 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.200 The 3,100, the 3,900, and the 4,500 for the areas. 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.599 The new, what we've calculated in this report, 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.720 is a recoverable fee, a new recoverable fee, 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:28.119 that you could potentially charge would be 35,69, 35, 00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:34.380 I mean, 53,52, and the 73,68. 00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.220 Okay? 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.660 And this is carrying that same slide down 00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:43.119 with a staff recommendation noted at the bottom. 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.099 So the current fee, what the recoverable fee could be, 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.119 and then this is the staff recommendation. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.160 And the staff recommendation is, 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:00.480 basically represents the current fee 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.980 adjusted for a 2% inflation for the next five years. 00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:09.200 So it's basically an inflation growth 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:10.960 from your current fee you're at today, 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.480 and then staying with inflation, raising that rate, 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.720 in a five year timeframe, but it would stay there 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.000 until you do the five year study again, 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.480 and then you get to reevaluate that. 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.559 So that is the water presentation. 00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.200 You can ask questions specifically about water, 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.200 or I can go ahead and show you the pieces of the wastewater 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.920 that are similar at the back end here, 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.819 just to see the values, and then open it up to questions, 00:25:37.819 --> 00:25:39.559 or you can go ahead and just focus on water 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:40.799 at this particular time. 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:42.980 - What do y'all think? 00:25:42.980 --> 00:25:45.599 I'm just proceeding and ask all the questions? 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:46.440 Okay. - Okay. 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:50.619 Okay, so let me switch gears here real quickly. 00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:57.839 This will jump straight. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.920 It won't go through the front end stuff that you saw. 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.880 So we're gonna jump, I'm gonna go back to the, 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.079 jump to the map again real quick. 00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:06.839 Wastewater's a little simpler. 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.519 You have your CCN boundary, and you have one service area. 00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:12.319 So it's the same thing. 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:14.880 So it's a single service area for the entire city. 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:16.960 Go back to the, 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:21.240 the numbers. 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.160 For one service area, we're seeing a single family 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.160 equivalent growth of 12,041 additional SFEs, 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.819 or service units for the system. 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.759 The cost, the impact fee cost, existing 21 projects, 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:39.880 19 proposed, a total of 40. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.039 For a total of 156, approximately $156 million 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:46.740 were the capital projects. 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.839 We talked about the, what the, 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.000 the table looked like for the projects. 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.819 Here's another representative, very similar to the water. 00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:02.099 And so we're gonna focus on this particular project, 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:06.539 similar methodology, where you see that 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:10.680 of the South Wet Weather Lift Station and detention pond, 00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.539 48% of that's being utilized today already. 00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:15.640 This is an existing project. 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.119 We're expecting to recover 14% over the next 10 years, 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.039 and then we'll look at recovering the last 37% 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:24.579 as we move into the future. 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:29.720 We looked at the maps. 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:34.720 Here's the CIP, impact fee CIP map for the wastewater. 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:38.759 And here's the values here, similar graph 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.119 that I showed you just a minute ago. 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.119 The maximum fee calculated in 2013, $2,800, 2851. 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:50.059 Your current fee is 2,200. 00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:55.119 The potential recovery number for 2018 now 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.400 from the new study is 4716. 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:03.599 And to go to looking at the recommendations from staff, 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.599 from your current fee at 2,200, 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.240 if you use the same methodology on the 2% inflation 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:13.279 over the next five years, this number going to this number, 00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:15.680 the staff recommendation is 2450. 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.799 So that's it in a nutshell. 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:24.640 I'll be happy to answer questions. 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.160 I know staff has got, PS and Tim especially, 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:29.640 have a long history of working on this 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.480 and the involvement of the impact fee capital program 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:34.539 over the last 20 years. 00:28:34.539 --> 00:28:37.599 They've been here for all of that. 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.599 And so they probably have the best responses 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.920 if you're looking at historical kind of information 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:43.920 and that sort of stuff. 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:46.440 So feel free to ask whatever questions you'd like. 00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.480 - I just have a very basic question 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.480 is why is staff not recommending the maximum fee? 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.440 - I'll let staff respond to that. 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:57.559 (laughing) 00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:58.400 Kenny or Tim? 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:01.319 - Good question, Karen. 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:05.759 That's really totally a policy decision 00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:08.160 that we'll get feedback from the board, 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.400 feedback from the customer advisory committee 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.680 and then the council, 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.839 but staff is looking more at maintaining 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.920 kind of status quo on fees. 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.200 Some of that also gets into looking at 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:26.200 where do our rates compare relative to other communities 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:29.059 and then where do our impact fees compare 00:29:29.059 --> 00:29:30.740 relative to other communities. 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.960 - Well, we just did a very thorough 00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.599 and complicated study and came up with a number 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:39.960 and then just kind of ignored the number. 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.799 Is that what happened or? 00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.599 - No, if you look at what happened five years ago, 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:46.440 we did not go maximum. 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.880 If you look way back at 2000 or 1998, 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.160 we did do maximum. 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.460 We did maximum in 2003. 00:29:55.460 --> 00:29:59.279 But as the aggregate capital costs got larger and larger, 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.980 then we started detouring from maximum. 00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:05.039 Maximum is an option, 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.880 but if you look at where you would land 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.460 on impact fee surveys, 00:30:09.460 --> 00:30:10.880 that probably puts you pretty high. 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.640 So then you have to balance where are you 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:16.119 on rate competitiveness versus where you are 00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:16.960 on impact fee competitiveness. 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.200 - I think your question is, it's a good one. 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.359 And I don't like the use of the term maximum. 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:22.319 It's really not what it is. 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.519 It's really necessary. 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:25.400 When you look at impact fees, 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.680 it really is an equity buy-in to the system 00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:29.559 that all of our current customers 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:31.440 have already started paying into. 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.759 And the other thing, in the past, 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:35.160 I think there's been a concern about 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:36.519 is it getting too high, 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.640 the price is too high to develop future lots. 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.880 And I think that's really a political discussion, 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:46.119 but we will move forward with the recommended fee 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.119 based on the necessary buy-in. 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:50.160 I think that the point is to get across, 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.779 it didn't really come across that well today, 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:54.279 but if the fees do get knocked down, 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:56.140 that simply means existing customers 00:30:56.140 --> 00:30:58.599 are subsidizing new growth. 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.480 And I think we can lay it out a little bit better. 00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:03.440 I really appreciate you asking the question 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:04.720 'cause we still haven't communicated 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.279 as crisply as we're trying to. 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:08.200 - Okay, thanks. 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:14.920 - So, I'm not charging the mic, 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.680 which I appreciate when I don't let. 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:23.519 Does that just extend the recovery time 00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.359 because you don't lose it, 00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:29.920 it just takes longer to recover? 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:30.759 Is that correct? 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:31.599 Am I living that right? 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:32.839 - Yeah, I think there's a couple problems 00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:36.799 with not recouping that fee upfront. 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:37.940 I mean, first of all, 00:31:37.940 --> 00:31:40.720 you're also looking at a static cost and time. 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:41.980 And as we're moving on, 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:43.339 it's only gonna get more expensive. 00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:45.400 So what happens is if you're not recovering 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:47.880 the entire recommended rate upfront, 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.619 it basically gets rolled into the rates. 00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.579 Those dollars have to come somewhere. 00:31:51.579 --> 00:31:53.200 And so that's what I'm saying. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.319 Karen's question's a good one 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.400 because if you knock it down, 00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:59.200 then that small portion that's knocked down 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.480 just is absorbed into the rates. 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.279 Our costs are our costs at the end of the day. 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:03.519 And we've already incurred some debt 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:04.519 for these types of things. 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:06.279 So that's exactly what happens. 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:11.079 - Brendan? 00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:12.640 - I have a couple questions. 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:16.200 For water, we created the three zones. 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.160 How come there aren't any zones for wastewater? 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.779 (audience member coughs) 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.000 In water, there's a lot of connectivity. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.079 In wastewater, we have pretty defined areas. 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.599 And there are areas in water side 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:42.000 where there's not enough water infrastructure, 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:43.940 especially on the southwest side. 00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:47.400 So there's a lot of expense going on in that direction 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.039 that needed to be recovered through lots 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.900 that are bought by other developers 00:32:52.900 --> 00:32:55.980 and city needed to recover that at a little bit higher rate 00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:56.200 . 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.400 On the wastewater side, we don't really have that issue. 00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:03.319 We have sewer lines generally in place at this time. 00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:06.920 And to keep it simple that way, 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.880 we chose to have one zone. 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:13.000 That way we have same impact fee for the city, 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.500 whether you develop north of the loop 00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:16.720 or develop south of the loop 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.779 or in the southwest side or the southeast side. 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.400 - Okay. 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:23.359 Thank you. 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.759 And then one more question. 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:25.599 - Oh, go ahead, Anand. 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:26.440 - I'm sorry. 00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:29.880 I just wanted to know how new development was defined. 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.079 - New development is defined. 00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:35.359 As you saw, it's 10 year growth we have to look at. 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:40.359 So from 2008 to 2000, sorry, 2018 to 2028, 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.640 the land use assumptions are there. 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.400 The projections are there as to based on the, 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.799 what land use will be there based on the zoning 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.480 that we have in place. 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.079 And looking at the data from planning department, 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.720 master and cog, we look at what industrial use 00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.000 will be there, what residential use will be there, 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:02.720 what commercial use will be there. 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.039 So those are called assumptions. 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:06.039 That's why they're called assumptions. 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.920 - I guess more specifically, it says new development 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:11.539 and it's in italics, I think. 00:34:11.539 --> 00:34:15.780 And I was curious what, so does that mean 00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:18.239 we're talking about somebody who's coming in 00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:23.000 and putting houses on undeveloped land completely, 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:26.019 or we assess this on somebody who tears down 00:34:26.019 --> 00:34:30.079 a single family home and puts up a four unit apartment? 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.320 - Yes, if they tear up an existing home, 00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.320 like close to the campus area, 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:37.920 and make it a multifamily, if you will say, 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.639 they put four or six on there, 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.199 what we do is we give them credit for the existing meter 00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:44.300 they already have. 00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:46.159 If they need a larger meter, 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:48.519 because they need to service more units there, 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:50.239 so which are the difference for it. 00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:53.119 - So all based on that five eighth inch. 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.559 - It goes back to the service equivalence. 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.559 - Okay, thank you. 00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:59.239 - Alan's got another one. 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:00.079 Go ahead. 00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:04.159 - Not to make this too complicated, 00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:07.980 but this difference in fees and recovery. 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.039 If I'm looking at this right, 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.690 you're trying to treat the resident, the existing 00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:17.559 population 00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:22.619 fairly, but you gotta be competitive 00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:27.619 to encourage new growth on your impact. 00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:29.320 You don't wanna charge the maximum 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:34.320 because that's gonna be a greater cost 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:36.119 to the developers, et cetera. 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.420 And if you don't have new growth, 00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:42.760 then you don't have new economic income, taxes, 00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.440 and so up here above the base, 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.440 you are getting more revenue in 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.079 because of that new growth, 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:55.599 and to me it's almost an extended cost 00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:57.079 to encourage that growth, 00:35:57.980 --> 00:36:00.480 and that creates more revenue also. 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.159 Is that correct, or am I looking at that wrong? 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.760 - You have just made the holistic political argument. 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.320 So that is the rationale people would use 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:09.519 to knock down the field a bit, 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.480 but it assumes that we're seeing growth 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:17.800 as economic development versus both the water 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:20.500 and sewer utilities, which are standalone systems. 00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:22.400 So we don't co-mingle funds, 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.679 and what we're seeing is the total cost 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:27.000 of the burden on both the water 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:29.400 and wastewater systems is what it is. 00:36:30.619 --> 00:36:32.699 If you assume that you're gonna intermingle dollars 00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:34.880 and that it'll sort of all work out in the end, 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.940 then you can make that argument, 00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:37.820 but that really is, that's the subtlety 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:41.079 and why you see impact fees sometimes get knocked down. 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.519 But the issue is you've got the burden already, 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.079 and you're oversizing that 00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:50.539 based upon future income coming in. 00:36:50.539 --> 00:36:53.360 But yeah, this is why it's not such a clean discussion. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:55.719 We look at it from a fund perspective, 00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:57.719 an accounting perspective, is it is clean, 00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:00.360 and we're trying to keep those costs segregated. 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.559 But you'd also, on the flip side with the taxes, 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:04.000 yeah, I mean, there's no question 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:05.699 there's an argument to be made that new growth, 00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:07.320 they spend more dollars in your community, 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.079 and you see it on the general fund side of the house. 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:11.079 - Right. - Right. 00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.639 - And the higher that impact fee gets, 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.480 the higher the cost of housing in the community 00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:18.320 becomes too. - That's true. 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.280 - And so you need to try to balance that out a little bit. 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:23.119 - That's true. 00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:28.599 - I did have a question back on the water zones, 00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.480 just to wrap my head around. 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.039 1A is the downtown area, 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.440 and because that is pretty much developed, 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.920 and you're gonna be just probably taking something down 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.119 and replacing it, that's why that recovery cost 00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:45.840 is so much lower, correct? 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.800 - Correct. - Okay. 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:51.320 - And the zone 1A, the reason that 1A 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.880 as opposed to a one, two, three, 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.800 we started out with a single zone system, 00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:57.199 it had a single zone system for many years. 00:37:58.199 --> 00:37:59.960 About the third update, 00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:03.559 we had a lot of growth pressures in focus, 00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.039 a lot of zoning master plan communities 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:08.360 in the far southwest, 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:11.039 and we were struggling with economic ways 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:12.800 to try to deal with that. 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.079 And so we created this zone two. 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.599 It has some cutouts in it. 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:18.800 Well, what are those cutouts? 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:20.719 Well, those are actually developments 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.920 that we had already negotiated some solution for them, 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:26.880 and so from an equity standpoint, 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:30.880 we felt they needed to be in the same citywide zone. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.400 One of them was actually a litigation 00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:36.719 situation where they were paying a surcharge premium, 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:38.960 and the language in that agreement 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:42.159 required them to be paying citywide impact fees. 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.840 So that's the country likes area down here, ropes, 00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.440 and we had some negotiations with also. 00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:51.199 So we created that zone. 00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:56.199 Well, a lot of interest and policy direction 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:59.400 came out of the council historically in long term. 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.159 Well, why do we have impact fees downtown? 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.760 You know, the infrastructures there was the argument, 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.440 and while that's a good argument, 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.039 some of the infrastructure's there, 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.000 but the infrastructure it consumes 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.920 is very common to citywide water plants, 00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:17.480 lakes, transmission into town. 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:22.480 So that zone 1A that was a section of the zone one 00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:27.960 was created, and it matches the planning boundary 00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.519 for the infill zone. 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.519 And when we ran the numbers, it showed that, 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:33.679 well, there's a little bit of cost shift, 00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:37.760 and so that's why we have the three tiered system. 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.239 So that was just created the last go around. 00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:44.119 We didn't really see any reason to complicate it 00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:45.000 or change that. 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:48.000 We just stayed with it when we did this update. 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:48.840 That helped. 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:50.800 - All right, thank you. 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:53.840 - I have one more question, sorry. 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.079 - Go ahead, no, go ahead. 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.559 - Are these fees assessed when a developer 00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:02.210 does a platting of land or when they actually begin 00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:02.679 building 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:05.480 or when the meters are put in place? 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:09.760 - When the original impact fee legislation came out in '87, 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:12.199 you had a choice to do it at the time of platting 00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.000 or the time of building permitting. 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.480 We chose at that time to do it 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:18.599 at the time of building permitting. 00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:22.039 Impact fee legislation changed along the way, 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.519 and then it restricted you to only do it 00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:26.400 at the time of building permitting. 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.440 So when someone pulls a building permit 00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:34.440 and wants the meter to support that new building permit, 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.119 then as a part of the building permit fee application, 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.280 they have to pay the impact fees. 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.079 - That kind of makes sense, 'cause if it's the plat, 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:43.239 you're just saying you're gonna do it. 00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:44.079 You're not doing it. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.159 - There's a lot of front loading to charging by the plats. 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:52.159 And so this was kind of a builder initiated legislation, 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.480 and so it kind of restricted cities to do it 00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:57.840 at the time of building permit. 00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:59.780 - Okay, thank you. 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:01.880 Other questions? 00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:07.840 And so we don't really take action, we're just direction? 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.780 - We were looking for a kind of recommendation 00:41:11.780 --> 00:41:16.079 that what the staff presented is acceptable to the board. 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.440 It's not state mandated, 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.480 but we have always come back to the board 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.400 and ask for here's the impact fee 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.360 that the board agree so that we can take it 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:27.400 as a recommendation to the council. 00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:28.280 And we'll do the same thing 00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:31.119 with the CIE, State Capital Improvement Advisory Committee. 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.960 - Okay, so just a head shake, yeah, 00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.280 you're going in the right direction. 00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:37.599 - For us, that would be sufficient. 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:42.039 - Okay, so, right direction? 00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:43.400 - Yeah. - Yeah, okay. 00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:45.079 - I think just in general, 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.679 just clarify why you're not going for maximum, 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:50.159 'cause to me, that was a big puzzle. 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.559 - I feel that's not-- - Yeah. 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.639 - And maybe show what the other communities 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:54.760 impact fees look like. - Yeah. 00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.760 - 'Cause if it would put us way out of whack, 00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.960 obviously we're not gonna do that. 00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:02.159 - One of the things I think it's important to point out 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.199 with regards to the staff recommended 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.719 is that it's a staff recommended minimum. 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.519 Currently our fees are actually lower 00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:15.519 than the full recovery fee that was in the 2013 study. 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.760 And so as a result, a portion of the rate base 00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:21.840 is actually picking that cost up. 00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.960 So we made a recommended minimum 00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.239 by using that inflation-based adjustment 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:34.239 so that the rate base would not be more burdened 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:36.079 than it currently is. 00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:41.079 So the, if you go above that value, 00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:44.559 then you're actually shifting more 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.119 on the recovery fee for the development. 00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:53.039 If you're keeping it at the recommendation, 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.280 you're basically preserving that portion 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:58.039 that's being paid for by the rate base. 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:02.639 So it's really a political discussion 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.679 as to whether or not you want to go above 00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:11.679 a particular value or all the way to the maximum. 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.039 Our recommended minimum is if you went below that value, 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:18.039 then you're pushing a larger proportion on the rate base 00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.039 than is currently being paid. 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.719 So that's all we were trying to portray by that minimum. 00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.519 So that's why I say recommended minimum, 00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:29.719 it is not a staff recommendation. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:35.559 - Still good to move forward? 00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:36.400 - Sure. 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:38.519 - Thank you. 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.000 Since we moved to closed session, 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.360 we're going to the consent agenda. 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.639 Does any board member wish to pull one of the items 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:49.960 from A through G? 00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:57.159 No? 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:00.360 Brendan's looking very carefully. 00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.199 - No, no, no. - No? 00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.039 Okay. 00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:04.159 Then do we have a motion to approve 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:06.719 the consent agenda items A through G? 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:08.039 - So moved. 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:09.079 - Second. 00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:10.280 - All in favor say aye. 00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:11.239 - Aye. - Aye. 00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:12.079 - Opposed? 00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:14.119 - Yes. 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:20.320 - Let's go into items for individual consideration. 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.239 Previously we had approved some of the board meetings 00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.920 by affirmation by just saying if there weren't any changes 00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.840 that then they're approved as presented. 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:34.360 So seeing the two board members that were here, 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:35.199 (laughs) 00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:37.639 are there any changes or corrections to the board minutes? 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:38.480 No? 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:39.320 All right. 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.280 Then they stand approved as presented. 00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:43.519 ACM update. 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.000 - Madam Chair, members of the board, 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:50.800 real quick, nothing really to the report on the ACM update. 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.840 You have your matrix there and there are a couple of items 00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:56.679 that'll be coming here in the next, excuse me, 00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:59.360 in the next few meetings by solid waste. 00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:01.039 However, at your place, 00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:03.639 there was an informal staff report that was left for you. 00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:07.000 It was presented or sent to the city council last Friday 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000 on a, we had a wastewater failure last week. 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.159 And so just provide you a summary of what occurred 00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:18.840 and a picture there of some of the work that's been done. 00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.639 And we'll include this in your packet next time 00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:23.480 so that it's in the file. 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:24.400 - Okay, thank you. 00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:31.239 And concluding items, 00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:34.320 I did wanna bring up the secretary position again. 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.119 I do think we need to address that and get somebody elected 00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:42.159 because unfortunately last board meeting I was missing, 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:43.079 Brendan was missing, 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.960 and we didn't have a third person to chair. 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.440 So if we could maybe move that forward 00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:49.920 in the next meeting or two. 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.920 All right, so then do we just go into closed session? 00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:56.920 Is that what we do now or do we have to? 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:01.199 Formally adjourn? 00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.159 Where are you, Larry? 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:05.719 Okay. 00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:07.679 Oh, wait. 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.800 - Prior to adjourning, I'd like to request that we add 00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:14.800 to a future agenda, 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:17.599 an assessment of how the Ditton Energy Center 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:18.760 performed this summer. 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:20.639 - Sure. 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.880 - I mean, since we had some questions about 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:24.519 how it would actually perform 00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:26.679 and how it was proposed it would perform, 00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:29.239 we actually have a few months that we could look at 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:32.440 to see how we did, if it was a swing and a miss 00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.039 or if we hit it out of the park. 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:36.480 - Thank you, Brendan. 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:37.559 I didn't see you going. 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.760 - Sorry, I can always be loud. 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.320 - So then motion to adjourn? 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.519 - By motion, we adjourn. 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.039 - Second. 00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:49.320 - All in favor? 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:51.000 - Aye. 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.199 - Going to closed session.