WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.519 Order at 535 today, Monday October the 8th, 2018 for the 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:08.720 Historic Landmark Commission. 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.599 If everybody will please rise for the pledges of allegiance 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:13.599 . 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.500 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:22.239 America and to the Republic for which 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:27.579 it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty 00:00:27.579 --> 00:00:29.280 and justice for all. 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:35.119 Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to Texas, one 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:39.359 state under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:46.670 Okay, we have a few items for consideration tonight. The 00:00:46.670 --> 00:00:50.560 first thing that we're going to 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.920 consider is an appointment for a member of the Historic 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:56.399 Landmark Commission for the vice chair 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.740 position. With that gone, we need to fill that position. Do 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:03.280 we have any nominations already? 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:09.590 I would like to make a nomination of Helen Bailey for vice 00:01:09.590 --> 00:01:11.680 chair if she would be amiable to that. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:21.439 You would? I would be amenable to that, yes. Thank you 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:22.000 Helen. 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.480 Are there any other nominations that anybody would like to 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.040 share? 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.030 I guess I have Mary Anderson. I had a question. Just what? 00:01:33.030 --> 00:01:34.159 Mary Anderson, go ahead please. I'm 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:35.819 sorry, I don't know if you can hear me because I can't hear 00:01:35.819 --> 00:01:38.400 myself. So I guess I was wondering 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:43.439 what qualifications were for being on HLC and sort of since 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.239 we're a historic commission, I just 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:48.730 wondered how everybody fit in. So I'd you know since I 00:01:48.730 --> 00:01:50.879 there's so many new people here and I'm new, 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.609 how everybody came to be in here. I mean I know where a few 00:01:55.609 --> 00:01:57.439 of you live right? A few of you live 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.140 in the historic districts but not everybody. I don't know 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:01.840 where everybody lives. I was just 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:04.540 hoping somebody would enlighten me and whether or not that 00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:06.719 was related to the requirement for being 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:12.849 an officer of that. Certainly we have certain you know 00:02:12.849 --> 00:02:14.319 obviously requirements but I think it'd be a 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:17.719 good idea to just go around the dais and just you know have 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.319 a quick introduction who you are and how 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.960 you was selected and what your interests are as far as 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.280 historic reservation. So excellent. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.919 We can start with John Morris and we'll work our way around 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:31.599 to Roy. 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:36.509 I was hoping to be last. Oh we can switch it. No no I'm 00:02:36.509 --> 00:02:38.800 kidding. I'll start and everybody else 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.620 will be a lot better at the presentation. Thank you so much 00:02:41.620 --> 00:02:44.719 John. My name is John Morris. I live at 918 West 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:51.300 Oak Street. I bought the property back in 2004 and I have 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:56.159 lived there. We remodeled the interior, 00:02:56.159 --> 00:03:00.620 restored the outside and the property. I have been, I have 00:03:00.620 --> 00:03:01.680 a passion for 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:11.710 1900s type structures. My wife has been past chairman of 00:03:11.710 --> 00:03:14.000 this committee in years past. 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.960 I've attended several of the meetings all the time. You 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.840 have been before this board many times. 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:27.949 Yeah and I take a great interest and pride in my city and 00:03:27.949 --> 00:03:30.800 in my county and in my country. 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:37.639 So I look to have the best for all is my main purpose for 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.879 this. What is the best for Denton 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:46.240 in the historical section of Denton. Thank you so much for 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:48.560 sharing John. Mary would you like to 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.930 tell us why you're on this board? Yeah Mary Anderson I live 00:03:51.930 --> 00:03:54.159 at 924 West Oak and funny we are 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.729 next-door neighbors and John's an excellent neighbor. We 00:03:57.729 --> 00:04:02.159 like this a lot. So we we came to Denton. My 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.039 husband's at UNT. I'm at TWU but when we came to Denton we 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:06.639 drove down Oak on the way to UNT 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.319 and I went I gotta live here. It had houses with character 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:11.840 and they weren't built like 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.300 cookie cutters no offense but they didn't look like 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:16.240 everything else and I thought I've gotta live 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:20.120 here not to mention I don't like HOAs but you know one 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:23.680 finally came available and we bought it and 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:27.660 we've renovated inside the house quite considerably. I know 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:30.240 what how they used to make lead pipes work. 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.000 I was appointed by Don Duff yeah I mean how they they put 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.480 the lead in the pipes. It's very 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.269 interesting. So Don Duff appointed me on the committee. I 00:04:38.269 --> 00:04:40.240 have a great interest in making 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:44.639 sure that we preserve the historical character of Denton 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.240 and not turn it into developer haven 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.519 for student apartments i.e. another name for single room 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:53.360 occupancies and I'm not a big I'm 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.930 not big on I don't care really what color you paint your 00:04:55.930 --> 00:04:57.600 house so much as long as it's just 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.959 not really obscene. You know lime green may not work but it 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.040 is your house you paid for it but I'd 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.519 like to make sure that Denton historical area stays here 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:07.199 because that's the charm if we've been 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.160 to Grapevine if we've been to McKinney I think you'll see 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.199 that the historic character is what 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.720 drives the city going. Frisco is soulless McKinney's not 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.040 and there's a reason for it. I'd like Denton to 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.680 be that way also. Thank you so much Mary. Angie would you 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.990 like to share with us? I'm Angie Stripling. I live at 1815 00:05:25.990 --> 00:05:27.279 North Bell Avenue. 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.519 We've been there about 10 years like everyone else. We've 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.399 had renovations. I've been before this 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:38.370 board several times. Never had an issue. I loved how it was 00:05:38.370 --> 00:05:41.519 how everything went smoothly but I have 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.420 a passion for historic conservation and also for 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:49.120 preservation and I think that history is very 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:53.019 important. I think in a day and age of technology where 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:56.079 even children and students have their heads 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.709 down a lot there is a lot of beauty and architecture that 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.240 we have and I really have an interest in 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.670 all of that and preserving it. I'm kind of like Mary about 00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:07.600 when it comes to paints and those kinds 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.009 of things but keeping character of what people thought of 00:06:11.009 --> 00:06:13.439 in the history and why that character is 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.459 there is a passion for me. So when we renovated our own 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:18.639 home I tried to keep the character of the 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:22.480 home alive with the history behind it and so that's why I'm 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:26.079 on the board. Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:33.439 Since I'm next in line I'll go. I'm Alyssa Stevenson. I'm a 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.000 14 year Denton resident as of 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.920 this last year and I live downtown in one of the historic 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:45.439 buildings on the square and I love it. 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:49.160 I have helped renovate parts of the interior. I have a 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:53.120 desire well I have a passion for history. 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:55.730 It's actually what I teach. I'm a seventh grade Texas 00:06:55.730 --> 00:06:57.759 history teacher and before that I actually 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.290 worked in construction and so that's when I was appointed 00:07:01.290 --> 00:07:03.519 to this board and I was appointed by 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:10.990 Kevin Roden many years ago. So I love the unique character 00:07:10.990 --> 00:07:14.160 of Denton and want to continue to see it 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.899 carry on that direction. Helen would you like to share with 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:21.279 us? 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:27.660 I'm Helen Bailey. I am an architect by trade. I am the 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:32.240 campus architect for the University of 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.509 North Texas and I was appointed to the commission by Dalton 00:07:36.509 --> 00:07:38.720 Gregory two years ago now. 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.360 He primarily came to me because he knew I was an architect 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.920 and the board actually is there's two 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.269 positions that are named on the board that should be 00:07:51.269 --> 00:07:54.560 represented. One is architect the other is 00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:00.790 lawyer. So I filled a need there. I have a passion for 00:08:00.790 --> 00:08:05.040 historic preservation. I always have my whole 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.240 career and I apply that on a daily basis with my work at 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.079 the University of North Texas which 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:17.269 you know also has a lot of historic structures within it 00:08:17.269 --> 00:08:20.319 and preserving the history of 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:27.949 the University of North Texas and Denton as well is kind of 00:08:27.949 --> 00:08:34.240 a life's work for me and so that's 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.759 basically why I'm here. No I don't live in an historic home 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:38.080 . No I don't live in any of the 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:44.059 historic districts but it won't be many years before my 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:48.000 house is actually you know qualified. 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.279 So I think it's about 30 years old. I live in Southridge 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.559 but anyway that is why I'm here. I've 00:08:54.559 --> 00:09:00.389 lived in Denton since 2001. Excellent. I'm Kenneth William 00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:03.360 son. I was appointed to the board 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.179 two three years ago. Greg Johnson appointed me. I want to 00:09:08.179 --> 00:09:10.320 get involved in the city of Denton. 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:15.190 It's my home and I want it to be part of it and I didn't 00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:17.600 just come up and say I want to be part 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:21.379 of the historical zoning commission. There was a need for 00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:24.000 some construction like minded people on 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.769 the board and they asked me and I've always loved history. 00:09:28.769 --> 00:09:31.600 I love the history of buildings. I love 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.470 watching the history of construction evolve and I think my 00:09:35.470 --> 00:09:37.919 biggest thing is I do want to keep 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:43.720 Denton true and keep the intent of the structures where 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.879 they're at but also make sure that 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:54.309 make sure that we're not doing something that is out of 00:09:54.309 --> 00:09:57.200 line or is costing more or doing something 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:01.940 that's not feasible as well. So I think that's my biggest 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:04.559 thing and why I'm here. Thank you so 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.759 much Kenneth. Roy. Roy Anderson. I'm a CPA. I've had a 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.279 practice with several accountants and then 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:18.250 for about 33 years. We have the building right across the 00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:21.200 street 222 East McKinney and we've 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:23.899 owned it for quite some time. I went to grade school at the 00:10:23.899 --> 00:10:25.519 old Robert E. Lee right off the 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:30.519 square. It's now behind the Methodist Church in the 60s and 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:32.799 went to North Texas University of North 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.559 Texas. My wife's granddad was a founding dean of the 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.919 College of Business. He has a building name. 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.490 My dad taught there for years. I was appointed a couple 00:10:42.490 --> 00:10:45.440 years ago by John Ryan I believe. 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.649 My interest I'm fascinated by history. I read a lot study 00:10:51.649 --> 00:10:53.039 and I read old 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:58.629 historical cars and I you know my whole thing about Denton 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:00.960 is growing so much that we have to 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.639 try and find a way to say what Denton has been and it isn't 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:07.039 the Denton of the 60s. It's actually 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:12.019 much better now and with the historic things and the focus 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:15.519 and it's a unique place to live and 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.279 of my 50 some odd years I've probably been here 50 of those 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.120 . I don't know a long time. Okay. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.799 Thank you. Thank you so much Roy. I appreciate it. Okay so 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:32.480 Mary you did ask the question what were 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:36.159 the requirements for vice chair is that correct? Or any 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:38.320 just any you know of all of them it was 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:41.139 just one of those. Can I ask one I was just going to ask is 00:11:41.139 --> 00:11:42.960 Jerry really a member of the committee? 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.639 I are you because they said something about a lawyer that's 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:46.799 why I just wanted to know. 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.240 I believe Miss Clegg is the lawyer. She's the law 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:56.240 representative. But no I'm just a staff liaison 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:00.039 you know to the extent that I give legal support and I 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.879 guess as long as I'm talking in here I have 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:07.340 the the section pulled up that defines the membership of 00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:10.320 the historic landmark commission. It's 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:14.059 a nine-member board appointed by the city council. It has 00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:16.559 to have at least one representative from 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.799 each of the following organizations or professions. The 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:22.240 county historical commission, county bar 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.269 association, certified public accountant, registered 00:12:26.269 --> 00:12:29.200 architect, and an owner of real property in the 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:34.490 city. And so you could have other citizens in there as well 00:12:34.490 --> 00:12:37.120 and then it provides for some ex 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.340 officio members that don't vote which I think are basically 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:46.159 the staff members. But at any rate I 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.360 hopefully that will be of help you know I guess in my role 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.440 working with sort of the parliamentary 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.649 issues we do have a a motion that's on the floor but has 00:12:57.649 --> 00:13:00.799 not yet been seconded or voted upon. 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.870 So there is a call for nominations and and just so that we 00:13:05.870 --> 00:13:09.600 could know where we are and stay on track 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:17.039 that's where we are. John. In that effort I would 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.039 second the nomination for the vice chair and ask that the 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:28.159 list of potentials be closed. Okay 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:35.500 you can do that. So John seconded the motion for Helen 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:40.559 Bailey as vice chair. All those in favor say 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:46.370 aye. Aye. All those opposed say nay. Excellent. So the 00:13:46.370 --> 00:13:51.840 motion is approved. None deny. Let's go ahead. 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.210 So if we're on the next item. So you got seven just in 00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:58.799 terms of filling this in looks like you have 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:07.070 seven ayes no nays and at least one that's absent. Two. 00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:07.919 Okay. 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:17.789 Okay all right so our next item for consideration is 00:14:17.789 --> 00:14:20.399 actually considering approval for the September 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:25.720 10th meeting minutes. However it is my understanding that 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:29.200 we actually have to have five members present 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:33.559 who were there and we do not have that tonight so I'm going 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:36.000 to move that we postpone those 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:42.559 for the next meeting. That's interesting. Second that. 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:44.960 Thank you so much Roy for your second. 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:53.809 Is there any question about that? All in favor please say 00:14:53.809 --> 00:14:55.840 aye. Aye. 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:04.000 Great all in favor seven none. No all those opposed say nay 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:04.000 . 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:13.470 Great none denied. Our next item for consideration is item 00:15:13.470 --> 00:15:16.720 c to receive a report hold a discussion 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.049 and give staff direction regarding an amendment to a 00:15:19.049 --> 00:15:21.039 certificate of appropriateness to follow 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.740 for the continuance of an existing neural around to the 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:26.240 front side of the building located at 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.440 122 North Locust also known as Andes. Thank you so much 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.679 Roman. Thank you thank you all and after 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:36.379 y'all going around that table I just want to say I'm really 00:15:36.379 --> 00:15:38.399 honored and humbled to be with such great 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.740 people. So the uh this item oh and I also want to say with 00:15:42.740 --> 00:15:46.000 respect to the landmark we're working on 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.570 the packets a new packet for everybody give them an update 00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:51.919 on what the rules are and all that. 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.720 We got hung up on if you've ever looked at our list of 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.720 historic landmarks it's really out of 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.389 order and there's some blanks in there we're trying to 00:15:58.389 --> 00:16:00.000 figure that out and get it nice and clean 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.029 is where we are today on that. So this uh you saw this 00:16:04.029 --> 00:16:08.000 permit back in November of 2017 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.559 the applicant Eric Pulido a six-year term uh six six year 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.559 term remember two or three terms of two 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.379 I think he served on here and he asked for that and y'all 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:21.360 approved it and and it's been up there 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.860 for a while um so it also with that permit came some some 00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:28.720 rehabilitation work here restoration 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:32.080 work on these door panels here uh changing that steel panel 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.320 out and some other things and they're 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.129 going to start on that today but probably Wednesday now and 00:16:37.129 --> 00:16:38.399 of course the weather is going 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.759 to need to cooperate so that's forthcoming. A little bit of 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.679 background this came up there was 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.919 a big discussion in the office uh if we had had our 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:48.960 ordinance revisions through already 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.299 that are waiting to get through the Denton development code 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:54.799 review process um quite frankly 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:57.740 this might have been approved by me this this amendment I 00:16:57.740 --> 00:16:59.919 just letting you know that but it's 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.129 still required to be approved by our department and so we 00:17:02.129 --> 00:17:03.759 discussed it in the department and we're 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.279 bringing it to you to see it again before we allow these 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.079 changes since you saw the application 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:13.049 originally that raised the question of why is Andes which 00:17:13.049 --> 00:17:16.880 is uh right here a historic landmark 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:20.819 well I'll show you very quickly why that's the block in 18 00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:23.599 85 and here's the headline of the 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.500 Topeka Kansas newspaper or an article in the paper about a 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:31.759 fire on July 16th in 1890 and you see 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:35.269 there that it says that the uh the wind was favorable 00:17:35.269 --> 00:17:38.160 towards the fire it was it was but a few minutes 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.519 till it had developed into a raging conflagration and every 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.759 building on the east side of the square 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:47.339 numbering some six or seven were destroyed and the cause of 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:49.279 the fire is unknown and there's the 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:53.660 damage well the Andes was the only masonry building on the 00:17:53.660 --> 00:17:57.359 block at the time and so it survived uh it 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.940 also and it even got picked up in the Atlantic Atlantic 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:01.839 Constitution which I think they took 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:04.119 the story from New Orleans because that's right out of 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.480 their page so it was big news with big fire 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.619 and so then when they came back in 1891 to do the sandborns 00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:11.759 you see the block is completely 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.390 cleared they just they there was such a clear spot on the 00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:16.720 map they just dropped the key to the map 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.450 into that space there and um so that's why the building 00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:23.599 matters and then um later on there was 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.220 you know renovation work you've seen these pictures just 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:28.000 quick refresher um what's neat about the 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.349 building to me one of these things it's one of the only 00:18:30.349 --> 00:18:32.160 buildings on the on the square with a 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.869 complete set of iron columns I think the scripture building 00:18:34.869 --> 00:18:36.559 is maybe the only other one and then 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.970 there's one or two columns scattered around um the square 00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:42.400 and there's another picture when it was a 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.759 movie theater there on the right so it's missing the tabl 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.240 ature here and then these um these little 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.130 coffers are in here are not presently they must have been 00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:56.799 filled in what these little curves this 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.440 will inlet inset around the windows is still there this is 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.039 the building in I think the 70s it was a 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.220 law firm so then you see those coffers already filled in at 00:19:06.220 --> 00:19:08.160 the top and then tablature is gone 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.910 and then just a little note about painted brick you know if 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:14.480 we had stopped in again this is the 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.680 70s the back building was unpainted at the time so this is 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:20.880 on east oak here and then that back 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:25.779 street and also the roof the windows and the roof had you 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:31.599 got a gabled roof there so this is before 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:35.019 the applicant began to clean it up it also had a kind of a 00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:37.359 sign tacked on up there that he removed 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.769 that and he painted that whole storefront as part of that 00:19:40.769 --> 00:19:43.200 first permit and now what happened is 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.740 the applicant as he'll tell you he had a big machine rented 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:48.559 with no with no one asking they've 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.920 been repainting all of the windows on the barley and board 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.880 the texas bank building diagonally across 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:59.599 the street they rented an expensive equipment to do that 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.880 work and eric asked me about painting the 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.549 front of the building and we told we won't make it to the 00:20:05.549 --> 00:20:07.440 landmark committee until the eighth 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.940 first we discussed whether we could get it approved and the 00:20:09.940 --> 00:20:11.920 staff wanted to have it come before y'all 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:15.279 and so we did um we're bringing it here now but in the 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.519 meantime he was worried about having to 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.549 re-rent that machine and he's and he had this work done so 00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:22.480 the image you see on the right is the 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.150 building today okay but uh you know then he's been 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:27.920 completely upfront about the process and so he'll 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.680 talk to you more he's going to tell you what's going on in 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:32.319 fact i've got him up next as a 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.559 presentation from from eric palito unless you have any 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:36.160 questions of me 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.430 i have no questions does anybody else have questions for 00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:45.599 roman so just so i'm clear 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.279 the pictures i'm sorry oh no i just need to make sure i 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.359 need thank you kenneth uh the picture in 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.720 the middle or the picture on the right is as it is today 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.279 the one on the right this is today this is 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:01.170 today i was done when they worked on it just this weekend 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:03.920 this weekend before this is right before 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.359 that and this is before that mural and any uh paint work so 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:10.720 in other words it looked like this 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.960 on both sides kind of a dirty old you know down that side 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.759 and so they did that mural and also 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.720 repainted all that work and then that's where we are today 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.559 angie yes hey roman so you said that 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.529 if you had you would have approved it or you could have 00:21:26.529 --> 00:21:28.880 approved it if we already had something in 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.329 place so the historic preservation ordinances that we met 00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:34.559 in your neighborhood with and we talked 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.799 about all around the city in there we uh we're adjusting 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:39.920 sort of administrative approvals in 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.650 there we talk about paint uh and some things in there so i 00:21:43.650 --> 00:21:45.920 believe if if you were looking at 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.450 painting on a for a certificate of appropriateness it could 00:21:49.450 --> 00:21:52.240 be approved by the preservation officer i 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.849 believe that's why it's word under the uh what's forth 00:21:55.849 --> 00:21:58.880 coming on the so my question on that is paint 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:02.369 versus a mural that's a good question is there a difference 00:22:02.369 --> 00:22:05.599 differentiator between the two um 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.359 reading in that because i would like to see that as well we 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.119 we'll have an opportunity and a big 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.730 opportunity we'll have another commute round of community 00:22:13.730 --> 00:22:15.599 meetings before the dentin development 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.079 code is passed it will it will and it'll go before planning 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:21.440 and zoning it and it'll come here and city 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.640 council again so we can adjust that in my mind for me it's 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:27.839 still paint for me i know i may not 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.230 you all may not agree with me but as a president in my 00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:32.319 world i've seen too many buildings that are 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.890 decaying because they have no paint and for me it's no 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:36.640 paint or paint once we get to paint 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.410 i don't personally feel that's significant but believe me 00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:43.680 we're counting on y'all to make a 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:47.609 decision that you feel appropriate for this amendment i'd 00:22:47.609 --> 00:22:49.680 like further discussion on that 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:55.170 one that comes up oh sure okay anybody else have questions 00:22:55.170 --> 00:22:56.319 for roman 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:00.890 okay well i kind of have a question and it's still a 00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:04.640 procedural question to tag on to angie 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.640 what authority do we have on the square since the ordinance 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.440 hasn't this i this building is a 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.210 designated local landmark so unlike the square being a 00:23:16.210 --> 00:23:18.079 national registered district that 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:23.509 it's not wholly protected loophole and this building and a 00:23:23.509 --> 00:23:25.440 few others a piece of another 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.980 building near on the scripture the scripture but about four 00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:31.359 right okay thanks for the 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.359 that's why you're seeing it thanks for the clarification 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:34.319 building 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.200 any other questions for roman before eric comes up 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.019 okay 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.799 eric if you'd like to join us come on over 00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.190 you know the drill yes greetings my name is eric palito uh 00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:03.759 1209 piping rock dead in texas 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:07.960 um i appreciate you guys having me and i don't want to be 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.759 superfluous a lot of this 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:09.759 uh is a uh slideshow that was seen when we originally did 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:17.759 the work um but i'll just go over 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.819 it just to catch you guys up and then uh go through some of 00:24:20.819 --> 00:24:22.559 the things that roman was 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.930 speaking of and obviously helping myself for any questions 00:24:25.930 --> 00:24:27.359 that you guys might have 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:39.950 so the building was built in 1877 um was built by bf pascal 00:24:39.950 --> 00:24:41.359 um i'm not sure if you're aware but 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.019 the upstairs floor is a cocktail bar called pascal bar 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:47.519 which uh me and my bandmate started 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.880 about seven years ago and we named it after him because no 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.559 matter what the building was 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.140 through time it was always referred to as the pascal 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:56.960 building and it lost that somewhere 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.450 along the way so we just wanted to pay homage uh to that um 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:02.240 like roman said not only just 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:05.710 my time serving on this committee i appreciate uh history 00:25:05.710 --> 00:25:08.000 and just feel like it gives an identity 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.890 to a place when you're able to to tell a story so we 00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:14.000 actually have um a picture of the all the 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.200 folks that uh helped build some of the buildings on the 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.359 square as well as a cool piece out of um 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.319 business gazette uh uh with an ad for uh the rs ross grocer 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:29.920 when you walk into pascal um we also 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:35.279 have a big uh picture of the square back in the late 1800s 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.130 that up there in the right is that uh ad that i was 00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:42.799 referring to 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:49.099 obviously some of these pictures you saw in roman's uh 00:25:49.099 --> 00:25:54.079 piece but i just love looking back at at the 00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:56.559 different forms that the building has taken on over time 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.029 we actually considered uh recalling it plaza the plaza as 00:26:07.029 --> 00:26:10.480 well um but we didn't have not yet 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:17.119 um as roman said those columns it was really neat to uh 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.640 to see these pictures and uh obviously see that they're 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.720 still there and a part of the first 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.269 coa was to uh to renovate uh that front like roman said wed 00:26:27.269 --> 00:26:30.240 nesday the actual wood facade and doors 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.529 will be done but uh the the columns were changed from a a 00:26:34.529 --> 00:26:37.759 green that we didn't really love to to 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.660 uh to black um and we also did change out the awning to to 00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:43.839 put a new one on there as well 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:54.640 um obviously there's a great marriage of of history and art 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.160 uh through time especially uh 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.259 how that comes to fruition and buildings um originally uh 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:02.640 with the the new deal back in 34 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:08.990 they they put in a portion um of the the uh the budget to 00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:12.480 uh include uh art um and i thought that 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.990 was a really neat uh aspect to have obviously we have art 00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:16.799 and arts program that started several 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.259 years back and i know that's been a big piece of our 00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:22.000 development especially in downtown um 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.119 i believe that it really does promote interaction and civic 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.319 participation um we've had a lot of 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.349 folks use it as a background to a photo um which has been 00:27:31.349 --> 00:27:33.200 really neat i mean i love just seeing 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.700 people now look at it as something that they want to be a 00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:40.720 part of um it wasn't the prettiest side 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.589 of the building before and when we did those renovations 00:27:43.589 --> 00:27:45.200 there were a lot of cracks also 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.359 that the that we had to to patch up and then obviously put 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.119 the paint over it um we have events 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.880 all the time that include um all ages and it's really neat 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.839 to to see the kids um come out and be 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:03.200 a part of you know the offerings of the of the building 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.000 obviously it's uh mainly known as a bar 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.869 or venue but we do daytime brunches and such all the time 00:28:08.869 --> 00:28:10.880 we have a a christmas show with kids that 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.410 we're doing in a couple months and also as a town that 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:17.200 really prides itself in its art program you 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.400 know artists can see uh this being utilized um in a 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.720 downtown area we're not the only building that 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:29.039 has done something like this so it's really cool to see um 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.440 i don't have to tell you this but you 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.299 know when you're downtown you know where you are and i just 00:28:35.299 --> 00:28:38.000 love that um further with distinctions 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.680 um that are in line can really create identity to a place 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.240 and i i love that that we've continued 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:48.849 to do that uh downtown with new businesses and just events 00:28:48.849 --> 00:28:51.839 and such um also the sustainability 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:58.509 and preservation um you know i kind of think that it really 00:28:58.509 --> 00:29:01.440 sends a message you know when you 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:05.210 put value in the building that you're a part of um it says 00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:07.279 something but it also i think 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.309 keeps people aware that this is something that we want to 00:29:10.309 --> 00:29:12.160 keep clean we want to keep it in line we 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.880 want to preserve it and sustain it for generations to come 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.720 this is just a quick example of some murals 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:23.720 around the world of large format type murals um i can't 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:27.519 remember exactly where i got all these i 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.529 think one was in new york another in spain uh but uh but 00:29:32.529 --> 00:29:36.480 yeah all different styles and such uh but 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:42.839 i'm sure the uh the same outcome is is achieved this at the 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:47.279 time were a couple uh murals that had 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:50.519 been done in town that were specifically with a historic 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.039 building or a historic site um the one 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:57.259 to the left is uh the paterson apatown art center um and 00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:00.000 that was two different times that they did 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.460 the mural i served when they did one of them and then of 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:05.920 course um across the street at the fire 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:12.009 department um they had uh had that uh monolithic um feature 00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:14.799 um honoring uh 9/11 00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.359 again this this most of this work has been done or is comm 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:23.680 encing now but was approved 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.599 unanimously at the time um with the mural um and obviously 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:28.960 the doors and the veneer 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.599 and the awning um and some painting window trims 00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:37.920 uh 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.609 and obviously that was the picture uh that we showed at the 00:30:44.609 --> 00:30:46.880 time of the mock-up 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.359 i think he did a pretty good job keeping it in line with 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:51.519 what the mock-up was uh the artist's 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:54.970 name he's not here he was here last time um and i i asked 00:30:54.970 --> 00:30:57.359 him if he wanted to come back and 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:01.380 he was pretty nervous the first time so he just asked if i 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:03.440 could handle it um but his name's dan 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.799 black you might have met him he's he's definitely been uh 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.440 around a bunch more regularly as uh 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:13.049 folks have seen his work and um have have used it for their 00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:15.680 for their building or or um whatever 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.039 piece that they're looking to to bring some life to and he 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.319 does that quite well um i know he's done 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.720 some pieces at the mall uh most recently so this is 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.799 actually a mock-up and then the next one i'll 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.039 show you uh one that you actually saw with with uh romans 00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.240 and the reason why with this is obviously 00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:43.019 um on this painting it wraps around and you don't really 00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:45.599 see it from the ground level uh that well 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:51.039 the the one inset to the right is kind of uh what what you 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:54.240 can see um when you're down on the ground 00:31:55.039 --> 00:32:00.349 but the artist really wanted to and i and i appreciated it 00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:03.359 to even if you don't see it um 00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.789 to keep the the canvas uh continuing or the art piece 00:32:07.789 --> 00:32:10.000 continuing and if you did see it whether 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:13.710 you're flying over if you're in the top of the courthouse 00:32:13.710 --> 00:32:15.680 you might find um a reveal that's 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.339 that's really neat uh to see only from certain uh heights 00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:22.960 in the downtown area um 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:28.279 i'm not sure if if i had mentioned um i'm sure i did 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.400 originally but the mural is called band on 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:35.029 the run uh you saw the two uh folks on the motorcycle it's 00:32:35.029 --> 00:32:37.759 uh it's kind of in a 50s western 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:42.700 um styling uh with the colors that were used if you go to 00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:45.839 the back um you see a police officer 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.400 with binoculars looking at the couple riding off in the 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:52.240 desert and they're now working their way to 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.519 their getaway plane which is located on the south side uh 00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:00.079 as roman showed as well this is the the uh 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.609 mural uh as it sits today um a little bit of backstory and 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:10.079 i know roman uh alluded to this um 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.440 originally when we thought about doing this between myself 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.480 and the artist uh and the building owner 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:22.349 um we of course knew that we needed to contact roman and 00:33:22.349 --> 00:33:24.319 figure out uh if that could be 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:28.819 administratively proven being i guess an optimist that i am 00:33:28.819 --> 00:33:31.119 i i thought that would be the case but 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:35.990 we didn't do any work until i had spoken with him um we had 00:33:35.990 --> 00:33:38.880 rented this lift for barley and board 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.779 because we had done the work on the texas building and i 00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:44.240 talked to the contractor that did that work 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:48.470 and just asked on pricing and if when he planned on 00:33:48.470 --> 00:33:51.039 finishing that job and i thought i could kill 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.559 two birds with one stone because he finished that project 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.599 and was going to have a few more days 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:00.339 until it was scheduled to be picked up lift um so we kind 00:34:00.339 --> 00:34:03.200 of put it tentatively on the calendar 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:05.990 and said okay this is when we would do it and let me go 00:34:05.990 --> 00:34:09.599 talk to roman also got the artist who does 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.389 travel himself and scheduled him down and got it penciled 00:34:13.389 --> 00:34:16.239 in and said okay we've got everything set 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.199 you know i didn't want to spend the extra money you know i 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.760 think around 1500 obviously they have 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.989 to deliver that that piece and it also takes up a big chunk 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:28.480 of the square and as you guys probably 00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:31.489 have seen with construction such i kind of wanted to be 00:34:31.489 --> 00:34:33.599 able to do the work and get it out of there 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:37.829 as soon as possible so roman got back with me and said okay 00:34:37.829 --> 00:34:40.719 we probably need to sit down and talk 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:42.340 i'm not sure if this is going to be able to be 00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:44.960 administratively proven let's go talk to staff 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:49.650 we did and i said i totally understand i do not mean any 00:34:49.650 --> 00:34:53.679 disrespect by commencing work or planning 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:59.179 to do this work without it and then obviously commencing it 00:34:59.179 --> 00:35:02.400 um if this isn't a proven if i've 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.679 exhausted all options of course i would paint back over it 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.280 and go back to the original 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.659 that was a proven if that's what we needed to do it was 00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:15.519 kind of a risk i understand you know that 00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:19.400 but i didn't want it to be any sign of disrespect to the 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:24.400 board or staff for that matter so 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.750 we did paint the front originally with the original coa it 00:35:29.750 --> 00:35:31.840 was just obviously a blank 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.940 canvas if you will and between the artists and myself we 00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.360 kind of felt like it looked that way it 00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:41.960 just looked like it wasn't complete obviously anybody could 00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:44.480 think differently and i respect 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.340 that and appreciate that it's just something that we 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:49.679 continue to look at and look at and we thought 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.199 you know it would really be neat to to continue that on so 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.599 again i don't want to beat a dead horse 00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:00.260 but that that is why we did it and the heart of it and why 00:36:00.260 --> 00:36:02.960 we're coming before you today 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.469 thank you so much eric does anybody have questions for eric 00:36:08.469 --> 00:36:11.199 angie i do is the mural on the south side 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:15.400 today as well for the airplane wise yes that's already done 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:17.199 yes that part of it even though he 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:21.239 did use the lift because there is roof access it was able 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.000 to still do some without the lift and i 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.239 don't know if the artist is like completely done with any 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.920 like paneling on the back side i honestly 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:33.070 i can't see it over there from the street so i would have 00:36:33.070 --> 00:36:34.960 to get up there myself so 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.199 um i know he's done with the lift but i he might have a 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:40.480 little bit of like work on that plane to 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:44.139 just you know and was that approved part of the original 00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:47.360 project no sorry both the south side 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.349 and the west side were not a part of the original so 00:36:51.349 --> 00:36:55.119 neither the front on facing the square or the 00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:00.070 side so they was south is facing so the east side and the 00:37:00.070 --> 00:37:03.199 north side the main mural portion 00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:07.400 was a part of the original coa so i'm coming back now with 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.719 this front facade and this side facade 00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:14.500 yes okay that plane that you saw let me go back so it's the 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:16.320 front and the side that's what i'm 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:19.559 and that's a clarification sorry okay so you're asking for 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:21.920 approval for this and the front correct 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:27.719 what you see in this painting or this yet rendering so the 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.079 back isn't done i thought you 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.219 haven't seen it i never go down that street the back wasn't 00:37:33.219 --> 00:37:34.800 it was part of the original 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:40.070 approved in the original um and we decided to continue it 00:37:40.070 --> 00:37:42.800 around to wrap it around and 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.480 and this is that portion that i'm coming before you today 00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:54.099 roy i have a question so at this point you're here for a co 00:37:54.099 --> 00:37:56.960 a but 95 percent of what you're asking 00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:59.980 permission to do is already done right that is correct i'm 00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:02.159 not sure the exact percentage but this 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:05.400 is just a continuation in addition to what was already 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:08.639 proven okay thank you 00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.840 i guess what i'm saying is you're asking now for permission 00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:16.480 that's kind of like we're going to 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.769 confession here so we're gonna ask for we're asking for 00:38:18.769 --> 00:38:20.159 forgiveness because we've done 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.519 no he he had already put in the the coa for it for the 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:28.239 front mural for painting now but for mural i 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:31.090 don't think i think there that's what i think you know for 00:38:31.090 --> 00:38:33.039 yes he had already submitted the coa 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.250 and um we didn't get it on to the agenda in time and they 00:38:38.250 --> 00:38:40.800 had already scheduled the lift so 00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.920 eric real i mean eric has always come before the board in a 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.440 very timely manner i really feel like 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.809 this is just a timing issue where the lift was available he 00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:52.719 thought that it would have gone 00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.519 before the board before then this is not yeah this is not 00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.440 like a slap on the hand no it kind of that's 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.780 not quite what i heard your story say i'm sorry but i think 00:39:01.780 --> 00:39:03.440 i was listening when he said that you 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.860 came up with this with the artist it did go in motion 00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:09.840 quickly and this and this is a retroactive 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:12.610 aspect i appreciate everything you've done for andy's bar i 00:39:12.610 --> 00:39:13.840 'm just saying that this board has 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.079 gotten out of hand and you know forgiveness is always what 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.119 we get after people do what they want 00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:21.369 anyway this is nothing personal i mean i think you've done 00:39:21.369 --> 00:39:23.039 a beautiful job on the side and things 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.070 it's it's the un the unpermitted stuff that i think we 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:28.559 ought to handle a little a little better 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.159 angie what was the date of the application for the coa 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:41.119 should be in rebecca it's hard to see on the phone 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.309 it was in between it was soon after our last meeting so 00:39:46.309 --> 00:39:47.519 that's why we 00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:49.989 we could have called a special meeting for but i didn't 00:39:49.989 --> 00:39:50.800 think that would 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:57.119 make a lot of sense let's see um your packets are on there 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:01.210 there while they can go online we got it right here you can 00:40:01.210 --> 00:40:02.719 see the date yeah i don't see it 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:09.360 was in september at some point here okay so it was probably 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:10.800 so it was recently just wasn't 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:13.860 about three i'm guessing i'm gonna pull it up so it didn't 00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:15.760 miss a meeting that i guess my question 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:19.349 is what was the date so okay it was after if we had 00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:22.480 squeezed if we could have squeezed it in 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:25.949 helen do you have a question while we're looking yes uh so 00:40:25.949 --> 00:40:29.280 i think i heard you say eric that um 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.940 you know knowing this is retroactive if indeed it was the 00:40:33.940 --> 00:40:37.440 um the the final vote from from this board 00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:42.579 that it was not approved you you can um you can find the 00:40:42.579 --> 00:40:45.360 resources to to take it back the way it 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.320 was of course i mean that that would be our responsibility 00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.760 um given the situation uh obviously 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:55.000 we would rerent the the lift and paint it back to the color 00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.840 that was approved um if we had to 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.400 thanks for the clarification thank you mary well my 00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:04.239 question is if that's the case anyway 00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:06.510 you were saving fifteen hundred dollars to do it at the 00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:08.239 same time that's at least what you said 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.980 earlier in this testimony that it was fifteen hundred 00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:12.719 dollars so it's going to cost it would 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.510 cost you more than fifteen hundred dollars to change it 00:41:15.510 --> 00:41:17.039 just just saying just want to 00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:22.159 clarify what i've heard so far yeah it it would obviously 00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.920 like i said it was a risk so i would 00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:29.900 lose that lose more because of this and the time required 00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:32.000 and to have a lift out on the square again 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:37.340 for for a given amount of time so just a quick answer i don 00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:40.239 't think i have the the original 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.659 application in here but it um i mean i can look on my phone 00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:45.920 because i sent you i sent it to you 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.409 somehow but it was in between i think we had just had 00:41:48.409 --> 00:41:50.400 whatever the previous meeting was so 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.260 okay it was either hold a special meeting or or prove it or 00:41:54.260 --> 00:41:56.239 bring it here so we brought it 00:41:57.679 --> 00:41:59.869 i mean i mean a special meeting i don't think that i mean 00:41:59.869 --> 00:42:02.239 what qualifies for a special meeting 00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.119 i mean my time is also valuable and fifteen hundred dollars 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:07.440 was more valuable than 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.500 that for it to call a special meeting for so wait a minute 00:42:09.500 --> 00:42:10.960 there's something wrong with this 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:22.210 john madam chairman um i was here and approved part of the 00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:23.440 group that approved 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.639 the painting that originally was put onto the building uh 00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:30.480 that was well received by everybody 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:35.349 there and i can not check the minutes but i presume presume 00:42:35.349 --> 00:42:38.800 it was a 100 approval i believe it was 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:47.280 basically basically as i see it we have here a case of it 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:49.679 probably would have been approved 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:55.269 it brought in time to do it right we have an option we have 00:42:55.269 --> 00:42:59.119 a situation here where the equipment 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:03.619 is available the artist is here uh to replace all that 00:43:03.619 --> 00:43:08.000 again would be 1500 roughly plus the artist 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.610 and the travel and the time and all that so you're talking 00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:14.320 so and we're talking here about a few days 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.000 that we didn't get here for a time deadline that is there i 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.440 think we're quivering over 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:29.320 dots are we at the discussion portion of this meeting now 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:32.639 yeah i mean we don't have a motion 00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:37.840 on the floor so but we are still at the asking questions of 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:43.760 kenneth yes why didn't you go in 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.190 back in november for all of it was it just after you yeah 00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:51.280 it really was after we had had seen it 00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:57.900 um i wish we would have uh obviously i think it it finishes 00:43:57.900 --> 00:44:01.440 the the vision and the piece as a true 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.199 uh art piece of the whole building and it felt incomplete 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:07.440 at the time with just the mock-up 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.659 um we didn't think that and i i think we were wrong at the 00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:13.440 time so 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.150 it's really interesting mary i mean i love the mural on the 00:44:19.150 --> 00:44:21.440 side i really do i think it's fabulous 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.989 for being on the square i'm not sure i like the rest of it 00:44:23.989 --> 00:44:25.920 i mean as far as historical character 00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.760 and i think that's where my one you're getting you're 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:31.199 looking for forgiveness after having done 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.760 something um but two it really changes the character i 00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.840 think that's what what i'm addressing here is 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.369 it's something that the board should have decided what the 00:44:41.369 --> 00:44:43.599 character of the square should look like 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:47.719 and how historical is something there i mean that's my 00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.960 major concern it has no timing is another i 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.969 have a pet peeve about the forgiveness i can get past that 00:44:53.969 --> 00:44:56.000 but it's the it's the content of what 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.619 the square looks like none of the pictures you have showed 00:44:58.619 --> 00:45:00.320 me roman up here look anything like 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.559 that and so i realize it's a great art piece and i love the 00:45:03.559 --> 00:45:05.280 side i see it almost every day 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.940 i think it's so cool but that the appropriateness of this 00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:10.559 on the square jerry if if i could just 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.460 redirect this for a moment and roman i'm going to need your 00:45:13.460 --> 00:45:15.199 help on this because i i didn't bring 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.559 my code book with me and i've been trying to look it up 00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:21.360 online and it's uh my battery is just about 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.710 dead but you know i'm hearing you know a lot of opinions 00:45:25.710 --> 00:45:29.039 about what looks nice what's cool what 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:33.239 uh how popular it was what was originally voted on you know 00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.119 and a lot of things that i think miss 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:40.179 anderson brought up an interesting point is that this board 00:45:40.179 --> 00:45:43.119 has a specific charge with respect to 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:47.000 certificates of appropriateness it's not you know matters 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.599 of taste it's not matters of timing it's 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.960 not matters of any of those things it's it's it's a 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.519 standard of appropriateness and you know i think 00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:02.429 that maybe we need to reconsider and just as you maybe you 00:46:02.429 --> 00:46:05.679 had up there to reiterate what exactly 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:10.269 is the charge of this board to make this determination you 00:46:10.269 --> 00:46:13.440 know rather than a an issue of taste or what 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.800 you should have done or shouldn't have done or anything 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:21.679 else what is the standard well i agree 00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:27.119 robert roy madam chair i move we approve hlc 18-022 00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.940 weren't you going to get into what the considerations are i 00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.760 'm waiting for the discussion because we're now 00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:37.760 we're talking to eric in a minute right start the 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.159 discussion we haven't closed some definite things 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.070 to say but i'm waiting for that roy we haven't actually 00:46:44.070 --> 00:46:46.719 closed the this portion of the so what 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.679 are we doing all right now we'll draw that um motion thank 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:51.599 you roy okay 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.289 okay no no no we're still on the open portion of the middle 00:46:58.289 --> 00:47:01.039 okay well i'm sorry jerry asked me 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:03.460 well you know we're asking for a certificate of appropri 00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:05.119 ateness it's not an historic district 00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.019 international registered district right which you could 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:10.880 apply the standards to uh however we 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.030 don't have a law that requires us to apply the standards 00:47:13.030 --> 00:47:15.199 for our national registered district so 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:18.599 often and this can come up with julie glover with the main 00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.119 street program when she looks at issuing 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.750 grants for some of the facade improvements that happen on 00:47:23.750 --> 00:47:25.599 the square she goes to this document 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.639 and which was in your uh packet last time and it's these 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.840 property appearance guidelines adopted in 00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:34.519 1997 by the city of den to be used for the approval of 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:36.639 renovations and new construction in the downtown 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.840 area uh the so in there um you have the this little 00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:44.400 descriptive which i put in that previous 00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:48.800 in in 2017 but we had the whole packet in there in 2017 i 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:50.639 can probably pull that up with you but 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.530 the key phrasing for me then at the time was that the 00:47:53.530 --> 00:47:56.000 renovation of historic advertising painted 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:59.130 directly on building surfaces is encouraged along with the 00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:01.119 creation of large-scale murals as a form 00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:04.360 of public art and then all wall signs and murals should be 00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:06.000 professionally applied or restored that 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:10.260 seemed to be the only on point um part of that property 00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:13.440 appearance guidelines adopted for the 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.679 city of downtown for the downtown i mean city of denton for 00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:18.559 the downtown core area so there's no 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:26.000 overarching historical component of murals as far as what's 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.880 approved from a historic standpoint or 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:32.159 from an art standpoint i have never seen any documentation 00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.840 about you know what murals would 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:39.079 be appropriate and norware mary yeah so you said we're part 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:43.440 of the federal the national registry 00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:46.860 and so what are i mean since eventually we hope to be even 00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:49.039 further what are their guidelines i mean i 00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:51.670 i think we should at least listen to their guidelines the 00:48:51.670 --> 00:48:53.280 secretary of interior standard 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.480 guidelines regarding paint are very open yeah the standards 00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:59.519 would as far as i know don't address 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:02.219 murals so that's it earlier we talked about we talked about 00:49:02.219 --> 00:49:03.679 the murals exactly yeah um 00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:08.730 the standards about the saving so you know helen i i would 00:49:08.730 --> 00:49:11.920 submit to you that paint 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:18.670 can change the historic cat uh character of a building and 00:49:18.670 --> 00:49:19.920 if there is no 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:25.639 if there is precedence from an historical standpoint then 00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:30.880 then the paint issue would be part of that and 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.409 i think if you were to take your document you were just 00:49:33.409 --> 00:49:35.760 looking at and you move move further down on 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:39.000 it where it talks about if it's denied it has to be denied 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.360 for these reasons you would find in there 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:45.250 that it states um you know is it going to detract from the 00:49:45.250 --> 00:49:47.679 historical significance that kind of 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:49.670 thing those are the kind of things think we can look at and 00:49:49.670 --> 00:49:51.280 it doesn't matter whether it's paint 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:57.670 or trim or you know brick or anything it's about preserving 00:49:57.670 --> 00:50:00.239 history and and so i don't know that it 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.940 matters so much what it says about paint specifically that 00:50:03.940 --> 00:50:06.320 would be my comment there right i think and 00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.579 that there is that in in other places in the ordinance i 00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:10.159 think it's usually in the districts 00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.469 where it says a certificate of a purpose this is in our 00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:15.679 ordinance um should be approved if it 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:19.670 negatively or adversely affects right um buildings building 00:50:19.670 --> 00:50:21.119 buildings in the area 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.880 which is a it's objective it's very subjective i don't know 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.159 well that's why we're nine people not 00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:34.079 one right any more questions for roman and eric 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:43.000 okay eric thank you so much for your presentation and for 00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:45.039 your time tonight i know that it's been a 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.880 a busy weekend so all right is there anybody else from the 00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:52.320 public who would like to speak on this 00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:58.159 item seeing none we're going to go ahead and close that 00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:00.239 okay 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.150 in order to discuss we must have a motion on the board is 00:51:04.150 --> 00:51:05.199 that correct 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:09.599 uh there are boards that do have discussion without putting 00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.360 a motion on the floor first 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:15.039 okay would y'all like to have a discussion first yes okay 00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.840 it sounds like there's a lot to work out 00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:25.840 helen okay um so i i have to say that 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:33.860 if you take into context the square as a whole and all of 00:51:33.860 --> 00:51:35.599 the frontage onto the square 00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:41.030 you will not find murals on any of the buildings in on that 00:51:41.030 --> 00:51:44.480 face you certainly find them on the 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:49.349 side street faces right all around the square and even in 00:51:49.349 --> 00:51:52.719 in side streets off the square a couple 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:57.650 of blocks right find it it seems appropriate in those 00:51:57.650 --> 00:52:01.679 places because they tend to be sort of more 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:01.679 alleyway aesthetic it was the side of the building there 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:06.079 was always this idea maybe that there would 00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:10.329 be another building added on to it and it kind of had that 00:52:10.329 --> 00:52:13.440 sort of unappreciated aspect to it that 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:16.800 the murals of denton have really brought life to those 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.320 areas and made them into 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:24.280 uh almost almost like destinations of their own for sure i 00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:26.480 think it's appropriate there 00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:30.760 i i have to say it gives me great pause to put it on the 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.679 front of one of the buildings that faces 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:39.670 the um courthouse it it just doesn't uh it doesn't seem to 00:52:39.670 --> 00:52:41.920 ring true to everything else we've got 00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:45.630 going on on that square signage i've we've got plenty of 00:52:45.630 --> 00:52:47.840 signs some of which these days are 00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:51.079 getting quite colorful and we've talked about those at 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.679 other meetings and and and i think there's that 00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:56.550 i think there's some precedence there because of the campus 00:52:56.550 --> 00:52:58.000 theater and the other things 00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:03.880 that were there you know 50 plus years ago i don't i don't 00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:06.400 somebody tell me i'm wrong but i don't 00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:10.059 recall any murals being on any buildings and so it gives me 00:53:10.059 --> 00:53:12.400 some building fronts building fronts 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:16.059 facades building facades facing the courthouse that's what 00:53:16.059 --> 00:53:18.480 i'm talking about specifically i don't 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:23.349 see that from any recollection i have um i think that we 00:53:23.349 --> 00:53:26.960 have to tread lightly on our history we've 00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:31.329 lost some of our history already on the square um within 00:53:31.329 --> 00:53:34.239 this year and um and it happens to be right 00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:38.110 down the street from this and and i and i don't think that 00:53:38.110 --> 00:53:40.800 we should detract from the history we 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:46.590 still have and so it feels to me just the front the rest of 00:53:46.590 --> 00:53:50.239 it i don't think is is detracting but 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:54.039 just that very front facing the courthouse um i think we 00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:56.559 should tread lightly on it and keep it 00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:00.230 as original as possible and by doing so i think having a 00:54:00.230 --> 00:54:02.960 sky scene across it detracts from that 00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:09.159 history and that's my that's me i'm off okay angie um i 00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:13.199 agree with you and i also think that the 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:17.300 the front of the buildings that when we talk about 00:54:17.300 --> 00:54:20.480 restoring we want to look at restoring back to 00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.840 original as close as we can get and i do think that is 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:26.239 distracting for the character of the 00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:31.139 building as far as falling in line with downtown my second 00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:35.440 point with that too is um talk about 00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:40.099 getting a coa in september and i want to address that for a 00:54:40.099 --> 00:54:42.719 moment because um 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.059 i don't want to set a precedence for this board that it's 00:54:47.059 --> 00:54:50.559 okay to get a coa waiting for a board 00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:53.369 approval and so i'm going to go ahead and do it and i think 00:54:53.369 --> 00:54:55.360 that could set a precedence for other 00:54:55.360 --> 00:55:00.420 people coming before this board um i had been i've had to 00:55:00.420 --> 00:55:03.679 wait myself two to three months because of 00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.719 not having board meetings i'm not having a quorum and so 00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.960 for someone coming before the board 00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:12.750 previously and knowing the schedule um i know it wasn't 00:55:12.750 --> 00:55:15.280 done in disrespect but i do think that's 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:18.300 something that has to be addressed that doesn't really set 00:55:18.300 --> 00:55:20.159 well with me because of knowing the 00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:23.800 board and knowing how the board operates and because i've 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:25.840 also had to be before this board 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:28.650 for people that have flat taken advantage of it and i just 00:55:28.650 --> 00:55:30.559 hate to see it go down that road again 00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:34.519 but to talk about exactly what is before us that it was 00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:38.239 done without an approval and that what is 00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:41.480 being asked to be done i do not think that it fits in the 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:43.679 historical character of that building 00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:50.119 okay mary i have to agree uh with ellen and angie i think 00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:53.280 that it's great to have murals all around 00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:55.639 town i mean if you look at decatur they have these great 00:55:55.639 --> 00:55:57.440 murals but they're not on the front of the 00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.219 building they're on the side of the building there are 00:56:00.219 --> 00:56:02.400 these great tiles and level land but they're 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:04.650 on the side of the building they're not on the front the 00:56:04.650 --> 00:56:07.039 character of the square matters i love 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:11.449 this picture right here and i don't even mind the side that 00:56:11.449 --> 00:56:13.840 you can only see probably from 00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:17.920 the hamburger place i can't think of the name lsa thanks l 00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:19.920 sa burgers right i don't that doesn't 00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.949 bother me but this bothers me things you can see straight 00:56:22.949 --> 00:56:25.199 away it changes the character i think of 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:28.440 the square and yes i do have a i have a pet peeve of 00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.280 seeking forgiveness but that's not coloring my 00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:34.519 vision of what i see here what i see here doesn't fit the 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:36.719 square the the other picture of it and 00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.960 you know if we're here i mean we can't make things original 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:42.800 to the 1800s but we can kind of keep it 00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:47.119 in a historic sense you know it's not like i should have to 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:49.360 keep my lead pipes in my house 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:54.210 but this is aesthetic it's not you know health wise to do 00:56:54.210 --> 00:56:56.480 so and i love the side i see it all 00:56:56.480 --> 00:56:59.460 the time and i think it's great i just don't know that it 00:56:59.460 --> 00:57:02.320 fits on the front i might add one more 00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:07.139 comment helen yes you may uh and that is we we might set a 00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:10.079 precedent if we do move forward 00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:13.969 with uh having a mural on the front of this building i 00:57:13.969 --> 00:57:17.760 think if we had this replicated around 00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:21.000 the square it would certainly start to really detract and 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:22.800 once you've done it once yeah maybe 00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:27.099 it'd be easier to say yeah we can do it so just one more 00:57:27.099 --> 00:57:29.840 comment okay kenneth um i agree with 00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:33.010 everybody i love the mural the side of it i think it fits 00:57:33.010 --> 00:57:35.280 in really really nice but it looks too 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.340 in my opinion almost cartoonishy on the front of the 00:57:39.340 --> 00:57:41.599 building and it takes away from the presence 00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:51.590 of the square um i'm just going to add my own two cents i 00:57:51.590 --> 00:57:56.400 love it i do i i mean i live right next to 00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:59.079 it i love it i see it every day i watched it go up i was 00:57:59.079 --> 00:58:01.440 surprised to see it go up when it did because 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:07.809 i had just spread through my agenda but um i i love it i 00:58:07.809 --> 00:58:11.360 love the continuation of the art project 00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:17.159 and when i look at the um the guidelines for downtown where 00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:19.199 it talks about um all 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:23.880 you know wall signs and murals one of the things it says is 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:26.480 the renovation of historic advertising 00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:31.389 is encouraged you know that along with creation of large- 00:58:31.389 --> 00:58:34.159 scale murals as a form of public art and i 00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.750 i love seeing public art in denton it's one of the things 00:58:36.750 --> 00:58:38.639 that i think makes this really unique 00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:46.250 and while i i don't love that i did watch it go up this 00:58:46.250 --> 00:58:49.280 weekend when i knew it was on my agenda for 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:52.460 tonight i did understand because i i knew that the rent the 00:58:52.460 --> 00:58:54.239 the lift had been rented out and 00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:00.039 as frustrating as that can be and i don't want to set a 00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:04.320 precedent for the do it and then the hand 00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.840 slap or the asking for forgiveness after absolutely not and 00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:11.280 and we've really fought against a lot of 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:15.480 that in the last several years on this board um i think 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:20.159 that paint doesn't change a structure 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:25.460 and we have some pretty out there paint on the the square 00:59:25.460 --> 00:59:28.239 and i might be the only person who 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:31.719 who has this opinion on this board but i kind of love it on 00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:33.599 the front i love that it's a full 00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:37.460 wrap around it's an art piece and i think it also brings 00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:40.239 back um i think it highlights preservation 00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:43.760 in a lot of ways so but that's my two cents and we don't 00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:46.159 all have to agree and that's why there's 00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:49.440 a board roy and john do you have anything that you would 00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:51.440 like to add or any anything that you'd 00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:56.110 like to say while we're still in this discussion well john 00:59:56.110 --> 00:59:59.199 i'm trying to digest everything it was 00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:05.369 said here take your time i'm i'm torn because i have a very 01:00:05.369 --> 01:00:10.000 strong belief that what is yours is 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:12.800 yours and you should be able to do what you want with it i 01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:15.519 have a very strong belief of that i also 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:19.739 realize there are rules and regulations and i can see the 01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:23.599 point of view that it could be a 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:29.440 bad thing but i don't know what other word terminology do 01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:30.159 distraction 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:38.079 destroying historical looks and so forth like i understand 01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:40.800 all that so i'm torn between those two 01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:48.369 uh i i really wish that we were able to have all these 01:00:48.369 --> 01:00:49.440 discussion 01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:54.340 before that paint was put on that building i agree that 01:00:54.340 --> 01:00:57.679 bothers me tremendously unfortunately 01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:01.119 that's just not where unfortunately we don't have that uh i 01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:06.079 do not like to see a property owner or 01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:12.260 not property owner this investing money to do uh improve 01:01:12.260 --> 01:01:15.760 the square we're all agreeing that side is 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.559 very nice we probably have the same opinion on the other 01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:23.039 side and on the back um 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:31.760 so but i also realize that while this looks really nice 01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:38.769 what do we do with the next building that comes in and puts 01:01:38.769 --> 01:01:41.360 a mural on the front side 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.340 with mickey mouse on i don't know what disney would make 01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:46.559 you take it down 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:54.760 that's what i'm that's the turmoil i have right now i 01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:58.480 understand you know i mean i i look at this 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:04.280 and and i do you know i'm not into exceptions i really 01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.920 believe that things belong in ordinances 01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:18.070 and to have strong ordinances however there's not anything 01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:21.199 in place that says that we can't 01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.309 and again if we're looking at added as a large art as a 01:02:25.309 --> 01:02:28.159 large scale art piece which there aren't 01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:32.170 very many buildings that could do this on all four sides um 01:02:32.170 --> 01:02:36.000 i think it's you know an ode to the time 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:40.210 that we're in as well a lot of what we see on the square um 01:02:40.210 --> 01:02:44.079 hearkens back to the many changes that 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:48.349 have evolved over time and i think one of the things that 01:02:48.349 --> 01:02:50.719 they've done here is that they've 01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:55.980 made a change and it it is a part of our current evolution 01:02:55.980 --> 01:03:00.079 but it's non-permanent you know it can 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:03.440 be painted over and so i think it's a it's a tough decision 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:05.360 that we've got before us tonight 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.679 roy do you have anything to add just a couple things first 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:12.480 of all john and i share a strong 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:16.280 belief that people that own the property should have to say 01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:18.880 so i i bristle a bit because i don't 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:21.480 think it's in i remit whether i like it or not i mean we 01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:24.960 should follow our guidelines right um i'm 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.239 a little steamed that they got the cart ahead of the horse 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:30.880 but and then my personal belief is once 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:33.539 you paint the bricks i don't care if you make it i'd rather 01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:35.679 have the normal bricks i'm a big fan of 01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:40.800 that but i'm not sure that's i remit either that's it thank 01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:43.519 you okay can i have something 01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:48.510 just looking at the downtown property appearance guidelines 01:03:48.510 --> 01:03:50.559 when it comes under color on section 01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:54.489 on page 34 it says traditional or light or muted colors 01:03:54.489 --> 01:03:57.119 with pastel or earth tone hues are generally 01:03:57.119 --> 01:04:00.480 preferred the use of very bright fluorescence or day glow 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.880 colors is discouraged i saw that but it's 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:07.210 right next to the opera house so i don't know that that has 01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:09.519 been followed for a long time 01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:12.769 and if you look at lsa it's got some pretty bright colors 01:04:12.769 --> 01:04:13.760 happening on it 01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:18.800 the opera house though was pastel which he said was 01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:22.880 approved was it not was that a suggested 01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:25.800 pastel that hue of purple is pastel to me it is you haven't 01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:27.840 seen purple have you haven't seen the 01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:33.300 purple hat ladies running around um but again thank you for 01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:36.880 pointing that out andy i think that we 01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:40.239 have to look at what this board is for and it's for the 01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:43.280 historic preservation conservation and for 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:47.239 i i go back to if we're going to restore to make it look 01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:49.039 like it did then it doesn't have anything 01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:51.980 to do with likes or dislikes and if you like it or not and 01:04:51.980 --> 01:04:55.360 i'm going to tell you i'm my husband 01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:58.929 is has an artist has a master's in art we do art 01:04:58.929 --> 01:05:02.159 photography and we have used this side of the 01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.019 building for our art photography so i love art i'm not 01:05:06.019 --> 01:05:08.800 against that at all but i also believe 01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:12.349 there's times that you put too much art and it takes away 01:05:12.349 --> 01:05:14.639 from this and i do believe in this 01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:18.840 situation it takes away from the character of the building 01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:21.280 and i also believe it takes away from the 01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:25.480 mural on the other side that we all like um so that's that 01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:28.000 's my breast of my two cents okay john 01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:32.869 you had a clarification well okay i just want to clarify 01:05:32.869 --> 01:05:35.840 for me there is no regulation on our 01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:41.159 in the city here that the front of the building can be 01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:41.599 painted 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:45.670 that says that it can or that it can't that you can't paint 01:05:45.670 --> 01:05:46.639 a mural on it 01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:54.519 i mean the only thing it says about murals is that they are 01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:57.360 encouraged as a form of public art 01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:00.599 specifically can i clarify one thing i know i was just 01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:03.199 asking ron this the city of dentin property 01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:06.989 appearance guidelines is not a regulation as i understand 01:06:06.989 --> 01:06:09.920 it right it was a proposed uh standard 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:14.269 that that that staff came up with to my knowledge that the 01:06:14.269 --> 01:06:17.199 the city council has not approved it 01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:21.739 you know considered it's not established by or it's not a 01:06:21.739 --> 01:06:26.239 regulation it doesn't it's not intended to 01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:32.590 bear upon this commission's decision making uh you know as 01:06:32.590 --> 01:06:36.000 in carrying out its obligations 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:40.480 under the dentin code uh you know to the extent that it 01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:43.280 might be instructive perhaps and i don't 01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:47.480 know roman correct me if you have uh information to the 01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:50.559 contrary but you know i was just asking 01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:54.940 rod just a minute ago is why would this bear upon the 01:06:54.940 --> 01:06:59.679 charge of of this commission uh it's 01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.079 as i understand it the the charge of the commission is to 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:06.079 look at historical appropriateness 01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:12.199 just to add to that um to what jerry spoke of these are 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:14.000 guidelines and you know they're they're 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:17.570 meant to help um guide development but standards they're 01:07:17.570 --> 01:07:19.199 they're not so i mean if they were 01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:22.300 standards they would be in the development code or part of 01:07:22.300 --> 01:07:25.119 the development code right and i i mean i 01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:27.449 i bear back to you know what is our mission and i think i 01:07:27.449 --> 01:07:28.880 have to agree the mission is to 01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:34.369 preserve history maybe not history from you know 1890 but 01:07:34.369 --> 01:07:36.480 maybe history from the past 01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:40.789 hundred years or so and i the only thing i've seen as a 01:07:40.789 --> 01:07:42.719 mural that's somewhat historic and i drive 01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:45.619 down oak a lot is the um scripture building used to have 01:07:45.619 --> 01:07:47.920 used to i say it's been painted by the way 01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:50.909 the sign for what was the sign for do you remember what it 01:07:50.909 --> 01:07:52.880 was for it was an old coca-cola 01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:55.489 yeah that's right exactly it was an old coca-cola sign but 01:07:55.489 --> 01:07:56.960 they took that out yeah they 01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:02.199 sam blasted it off and scott brown has the painting there 01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:04.639 now and i look at that as advertising if we 01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:07.400 look back at what they said advertising i don't believe 01:08:07.400 --> 01:08:09.360 that this mural is advertising anything 01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:12.719 no so if we look at that and those kind of guidelines it's 01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:15.199 not for advertising it's all 01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:18.130 art and but it might might you know the reason i'm not i 01:08:18.130 --> 01:08:19.920 don't really not in favor it's not 01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:22.399 because it's art or whether i like it or not i love blue i 01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:23.920 love white so that's not the issue 01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:27.430 the issue is it doesn't really fit most of downtown okay 01:08:27.430 --> 01:08:30.239 john madam chairman am i i'm 01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:35.109 hearing all this and basically what i'm gathering is that 01:08:35.109 --> 01:08:39.039 everybody is saying that one side looks 01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:43.649 okay the back side's okay the other side's okay but it's 01:08:43.649 --> 01:08:47.279 the front right the facade okay 01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:54.529 roan when you're done can you put a picture that front yes 01:08:54.529 --> 01:08:55.119 of course 01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:58.720 you can you would like to have this one 01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:04.119 or you got that big one that's a good one thank you that 01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:06.079 helps that's exactly what we need to see 01:09:06.640 --> 01:09:09.119 or even the older pictures i wouldn't mind seeing some of 01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:09.840 the older ones 01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:13.199 rolling before this are rather recent in the past year or 01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:17.199 two at tops shall we see history again 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.439 well we've got like this kind of here yeah there's the ugly 01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:24.640 side 70s where they filled in the part of 01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.100 at the top that was caves thrift next door and then what 01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:31.119 about two number 14 why don't you show us 14 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:33.909 um that's the back side of the building oh you're right i 01:09:33.909 --> 01:09:35.680 couldn't tell when the small thumbprint 01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:39.140 right and the i think you mean number 12 yes exactly i do 01:09:39.140 --> 01:09:42.880 mean 12 sorry yeah there's the kind of 01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:51.960 so one of the big differences that we notice is what you 01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:54.239 pointed out earlier roman is that the 01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:58.670 brickwork up at the top has been filled in um you know now 01:09:58.670 --> 01:10:01.760 we have the curved windows but they're 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:06.819 kind of a flatter panel um it looks like is that tile work 01:10:06.819 --> 01:10:09.119 yes behind the plaza sign 01:10:10.479 --> 01:10:15.399 can't tell can you yeah it it looks like you can see the 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:18.479 tile right here right there's the tile work 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:24.939 um and then it had of course the the top at the the thing 01:10:24.939 --> 01:10:26.239 on the top 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:32.020 yeah that little things the black things to be i don't know 01:10:32.020 --> 01:10:32.159 what you call it i'm not i'm sure it's 01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:34.979 like bangs helen could tell us what it's called oh sorry 01:10:34.979 --> 01:10:36.720 the black thing at the top we don't know 01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:41.310 what it's called the entablature thank you thank you it was 01:10:41.310 --> 01:10:45.359 probably pressed 10 ruman already said 01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:53.060 it once so he takes credit on me so when we look at today's 01:10:53.060 --> 01:10:56.079 i mean i don't know that i could call 01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:59.489 it a restoration back to this because parts of it are 01:10:59.489 --> 01:11:01.520 filled in and things like that 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:07.750 but probably it didn't have a mural on it that that looks 01:11:07.750 --> 01:11:09.760 so different than everything else on 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:12.720 on the square right i mean i guess that that's that's the 01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:14.560 point that that i keep coming back 01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:17.439 to is it looks so different from anything other picture on 01:11:17.439 --> 01:11:18.960 the square and you know i've looked 01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:20.920 at a lot of the things that have been down in the county 01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:22.319 courthouse and looked at pictures 01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:24.460 from all around the square i'm very interested in this so i 01:11:24.460 --> 01:11:25.600 take a look at a lot of pictures 01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:28.050 and i've never seen anything looks even close to that you 01:11:28.050 --> 01:11:29.760 know and that's that's the problem 01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:32.500 i do like murals and stuff but maybe it's not right for 01:11:32.500 --> 01:11:32.880 there 01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:39.810 i don't and just to address john's concern about property 01:11:39.810 --> 01:11:43.760 rights yes but you know what you were 01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:47.000 buying when you moved into historic areas that you were 01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:50.239 buying the historic you know look alike 01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:54.439 it's not like we sprung this upon you you knew it existed i 01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:56.319 mean i know i live in a historic 01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:58.909 district i have to live with that not that a lot of my 01:11:58.909 --> 01:12:00.720 neighbors do by the way they change their 01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:03.229 windows put up fences and nobody seems to do more than oh 01:12:03.229 --> 01:12:04.880 maybe you shouldn't have done that 01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:09.840 here's the here's the 01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:15.800 dug around here to find this section that deals with 01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:16.640 specifically certificates of 01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:21.319 appropriates and not within a historic district so it does 01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:24.239 tell us here standard procedure i think 01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:28.449 there's a little review in here criteria for denial i think 01:12:28.449 --> 01:12:30.239 uh were you looking at this 01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:42.640 that this criteria i just wanted to point it out there's a 01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:45.680 criteria for denial now this is in our 01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:50.289 ordinance so it says criteria for denial of a certificate 01:12:50.289 --> 01:12:53.600 of appropriateness one must be denied 01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:56.109 if there is a final decision that the proposed work will 01:12:56.109 --> 01:12:58.319 have an adverse effect on one the 01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:02.000 external architectural features of the historic landmark 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.239 two the ex the external architectural 01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:06.859 features of the properties in the block or in the historic 01:13:06.859 --> 01:13:08.399 district as a whole or three 01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:12.279 the future preservation maintenance and use of the historic 01:13:12.279 --> 01:13:14.159 landmark and the district 01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:19.550 and you see there below f that's the process we've followed 01:13:19.550 --> 01:13:22.560 by him submitting an amendment 01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.939 asking for an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness 01:13:25.939 --> 01:13:27.760 and that's that line f there but 01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:32.520 so that's kind of the most on point part of our historic 01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:35.359 ordinance that i believe exists 01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:38.880 because this it doesn't pertain to a specific district 01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:46.109 and the national registered district that we have had um 01:13:46.109 --> 01:13:49.359 has never been legally recognized by our 01:13:49.359 --> 01:13:54.119 local ordinance and um but there are those things called 01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:56.720 the standards or this that which are you 01:13:56.720 --> 01:13:58.890 know i say secretary of interior standards for historic 01:13:58.890 --> 01:14:00.399 preservation but they don't address 01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:03.569 um they'll they actually specifically address if you have 01:14:03.569 --> 01:14:05.359 bare brick don't paint the brick 01:14:07.359 --> 01:14:10.609 very it's a very conservative approach it's simply uh 01:14:10.609 --> 01:14:13.520 repair rather than replace and and 01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:17.869 keep original material um it's kind of the way that don't 01:14:17.869 --> 01:14:19.760 get into this part of it 01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:24.500 don't have a question on denial of things when i came 01:14:24.500 --> 01:14:27.039 before the board i was putting up a new i 01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:29.779 wanted to put up a new building and one of the things is i 01:14:29.779 --> 01:14:31.600 got mine conditionally because you 01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:36.060 could choose what i put on my my board i'm a little i'm a 01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:38.800 little confused a little bit fuzzy 01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:41.829 how you can say oh you had to use wood you can't use hardy 01:14:41.829 --> 01:14:44.000 board which that changed but anyway 01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.560 it seems to me wasn't this unpainted it wasn't it unpainted 01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:50.079 previously i mean the pictures we 01:14:50.079 --> 01:14:52.640 see historically were unpainted i don't know when it got 01:14:52.640 --> 01:14:55.680 painted it got painted well before so 01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:00.760 if we go here this is this is painted i believe 60 70s yeah 01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:04.159 because they put the um they covered 01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:08.640 up the the brickwork there probably painted stucco up here 01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:14.579 if we got to go recent we could just i'm pretty sure with 01:15:14.579 --> 01:15:17.359 google street view will give us some 01:15:18.319 --> 01:15:21.600 so while you're trying to find that roman i appreciate you 01:15:21.600 --> 01:15:24.880 pulling up the um the was that 01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:28.159 from the ordinance what was that from our ordinance okay so 01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:31.359 the argument i was trying to make although 01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:36.229 i wasn't as eloquent as our ordinance was that uh my 01:15:36.229 --> 01:15:40.319 opinion is that a mural on the front facade 01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:43.789 of this building does adversely affect the external 01:15:43.789 --> 01:15:45.920 architectural features of the 01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:49.840 landmark that we're ready for a motion that would that 01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:52.159 would be it i'm i would be ready for a motion 01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:57.590 yes i will happily do that i'll make a i'll make a motion 01:15:57.590 --> 01:15:59.760 that we deny the certificate of 01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:06.680 appropriateness for the amendment for the mural that was 01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:10.079 made by angie angie i would like to ask 01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:13.319 you a question are you specific are you saying for the 01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:15.920 entire mural or for the facade specifically 01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:20.229 i'm saying for what has been asked of this certificate of 01:16:20.229 --> 01:16:22.159 appropriateness here for the 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:27.029 facade and that backside if that is that so the facade in 01:16:27.029 --> 01:16:30.000 this and the south side the south side 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:33.420 not what's already been done no only what has come before 01:16:33.420 --> 01:16:36.800 the board today okay but the south side has 01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:41.670 already been painted as well correct without a coa okay so 01:16:41.670 --> 01:16:44.800 you my motion is for denial okay 01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:53.159 did anybody second it i'm so sorry i wouldn't i would amend 01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:57.680 that my motion would be to deny the 01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:06.289 the west face only and allow the south okay we yeah we've 01:17:06.289 --> 01:17:09.279 got a motion yeah we got a motion 01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:13.560 that's pending here you can offer and we don't have a 01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:16.800 second yet uh and uh you you could offer 01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:19.430 a friendly amendment but we we do need to see if we get a 01:17:19.430 --> 01:17:21.279 second to this motion i'll second the 01:17:21.279 --> 01:17:25.000 second motion from angie which one are you second kenneth 01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.520 is seconding angie's original motion 01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:34.039 correct yes okay helen is going to offer a friendly 01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:36.880 amendment i would like to offer a friendly 01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:42.260 amendment to uh to that motion which would be for the uh to 01:17:42.260 --> 01:17:45.760 deny the west face but approve the south 01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:50.270 face i'll second that yeah can we say something john is 01:17:50.270 --> 01:17:53.520 seconding that motion so now we would 01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.699 have a vote on the friendly amendment on whether to modify 01:17:56.699 --> 01:17:58.720 the original motion by the friendly 01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:06.130 amendment okay all those in favor of helen's friendly 01:18:06.130 --> 01:18:10.319 amendment that was seconded by john 01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:18.579 all those in favor of helen's friendly amendment seconded 01:18:18.579 --> 01:18:20.239 by john please say aye 01:18:21.039 --> 01:18:27.079 aye you should do a show of hands please do a show of hands 01:18:27.079 --> 01:18:31.279 three four five there are five 01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:37.079 in favor of the friendly amendment okay so now you vote on 01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:40.720 it as amended so we can vote on it 01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:44.640 do i not have to ask how many denied well you you do okay 01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:49.199 all those opposed please say nay 01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:57.189 with a hand raised so angie and kenneth right okay so there 01:18:57.189 --> 01:18:59.119 are two who opposed 01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:06.279 okay can i ask a question yes you may can we now talk about 01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:07.840 that one since it's 01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:12.909 yeah because the motion is pending on the floor is the 01:19:12.909 --> 01:19:15.840 motion as amended okay so so my question 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:18.829 of the board is what difference is it if it's on the front 01:19:18.829 --> 01:19:20.800 side of it facing the square or if it's 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:25.000 on the side if you can still see it from the areas on the 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:28.079 square that we were just talking about 01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:29.760 because if you're 01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:36.310 one day up in wells fargo if you're at lsa up in the courth 01:19:36.310 --> 01:19:38.479 ouse you're still going to see that and 01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:44.279 that's still a main portion of the square john uh to carry 01:19:44.279 --> 01:19:48.159 your motion to carry your idea further 01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:50.409 then you have to take it off on the oak side because you 01:19:50.409 --> 01:19:52.159 can see it from the oak side too 01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:55.550 so what you're saying is strip the bill no sir i'm not 01:19:55.550 --> 01:19:58.960 because we already have voted and approved 01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:03.159 that side of it and and i personally was in favor of it at 01:20:03.159 --> 01:20:06.079 that point but that's still not facing 01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:11.640 in in my mind not facing the front of the square okay got 01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:14.479 it okay i know i got it so i would have a 01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:18.239 i would have an answer to you on that one which would be 01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:21.199 that there is in fact a precedent for 01:20:21.199 --> 01:20:27.260 murals up on a second level we have that at lsa burger um 01:20:27.260 --> 01:20:30.960 we we had it back 30 50 years ago on 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:36.479 the side of the hardware store evers hardware store as well 01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:39.359 you can see it but it is above and 01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:43.609 it is on the side of the building actually the opera house 01:20:43.609 --> 01:20:46.079 also has the mural that does face 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:51.060 i mean it is facing the court the courthouse so i have a 01:20:51.060 --> 01:20:53.359 question it is so those that you said 01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:57.750 like that said evers was that advertising yes or was it a 01:20:57.750 --> 01:21:00.319 mural it was an advertising there's 01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:03.680 an advertising mural and then there's art mural and i don't 01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:05.680 think we're talking about the same 01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:09.880 thing advertising is just that whether it's a neon light 01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:13.039 whether it's painting there's a to me 01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:16.279 there's a difference there i'd agree with you but we do are 01:21:16.279 --> 01:21:20.560 also have it at la uh la burger lsa burger 01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:23.449 where it is a mural up on that patio area okay is there 01:21:23.449 --> 01:21:26.079 really i never noticed it yes but that's 01:21:26.079 --> 01:21:30.539 inside of the patio no no it's outside really i don't even 01:21:30.539 --> 01:21:32.800 know i think i can't yes i'm sure 01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:37.210 because there's the wall of murals on the interior and then 01:21:37.210 --> 01:21:40.159 there's the big flag on the exterior 01:21:41.439 --> 01:21:46.159 i'll show you yeah google google earth yeah exactly eric 01:21:46.159 --> 01:21:47.439 did you have a question 01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:59.239 okay man so you're keeping track of this right i'm so clear 01:21:59.239 --> 01:22:01.279 he's doing a good job okay 01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:05.960 okay so what we currently have on the floor in motion is 01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:09.520 while we're bringing this up so there's 01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:13.430 the evers heart see there's the the star there it is but 01:22:13.430 --> 01:22:16.479 that's inside of the no i'm talking about 01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:24.000 the star that's i'm looking up top what are you looking at 01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:25.520 up top and then the mural yeah 01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:30.760 and even on the closer side you got a bigger star yes you 01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:33.199 see where this texas that's like a texas 01:22:33.199 --> 01:22:36.750 flag running along the side there where did i just it's 01:22:36.750 --> 01:22:39.680 obscure but this is going to be a bit obscure 01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:42.260 as well it's it's really above the roof you're almost going 01:22:42.260 --> 01:22:43.680 to have to get a drone to see it 01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:48.880 unless you're in that right it kind of like the uh who's 01:22:48.880 --> 01:22:52.640 the the jackson law office that's got the 01:22:52.640 --> 01:22:56.670 oh yeah yeah yeah jackson hagen who's got the big painted 01:22:56.670 --> 01:23:00.159 sign which is i guess advertising but you 01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:03.399 really don't notice it because it's up on that above 01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:07.520 portion that is a wall sign right sign but 01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:09.859 it's also it's also muted i think the other reason you don 01:23:09.859 --> 01:23:11.600 't notice is it's more muted it's black on 01:23:11.600 --> 01:23:15.029 a dark tan or something so it just blends you know i don't 01:23:15.029 --> 01:23:17.439 see it i just but so okay so kenneth you 01:23:17.439 --> 01:23:20.880 had a question about the did you have a question or did you 01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:23.760 just want clarification on this is what 01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:28.710 that mural looks like i just want clarification okay okay 01:23:28.710 --> 01:23:32.720 so the motion that we have in motion 01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:41.590 right now on the floor is to deny the coa with the friendly 01:23:41.590 --> 01:23:43.199 amendment 01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:49.989 um that we allow the south side to remain painted so we are 01:23:49.989 --> 01:23:52.000 only asking for removal of the 01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:56.869 the facade is really where we're at right now okay all 01:23:56.869 --> 01:24:02.079 right so are we ready to take a vote on it 01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:05.970 yes what it bothers me is we didn't actually discuss the 01:24:05.970 --> 01:24:08.399 amendment i guess kenneth didn't 01:24:08.399 --> 01:24:12.390 get a chance to speak more until after we voted on the 01:24:12.390 --> 01:24:15.359 amendment so that's gone it's passed 01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:20.229 it's passed okay we're moving forward all right all those 01:24:20.229 --> 01:24:23.600 in favor please raise your hand and say 01:24:23.600 --> 01:24:30.930 aye aye one two three four six seven seven in favor of all 01:24:30.930 --> 01:24:34.319 those opposed please say nay 01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:37.439 none opposed 01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:41.920 so the motion passes 01:24:44.239 --> 01:24:52.229 okay technically you had a motion to deny that was amended 01:24:52.229 --> 01:24:56.800 so you don't have a motion to approve 01:24:56.800 --> 01:25:01.010 the side yet okay so now we have to make a motion to 01:25:01.010 --> 01:25:04.560 approve the side is that what you're saying 01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:08.600 yes because we denied because the motion was a motion to 01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:12.159 deny and now we have to have qualified 01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:16.060 so really you need to have you need to vote on whether to 01:25:16.060 --> 01:25:19.920 approve a mural that's limited to the 01:25:20.479 --> 01:25:28.039 southern facade okay i motion to uh approve this motion to 01:25:28.039 --> 01:25:31.359 vote to approve the mural on the south 01:25:31.359 --> 01:25:34.640 face of andy's bar thank you for your motion helen 01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:44.880 hold on does anybody second i will second it but i do have 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:45.439 a question 01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:51.319 okay can i don't know if i'm can i okay yes you can ask a 01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:51.680 question 01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:56.180 if that side on the other person approved the back is 01:25:56.180 --> 01:25:58.479 already approved correct the back was 01:25:58.479 --> 01:26:03.390 approved last november thank you john for seconding the 01:26:03.390 --> 01:26:07.119 motion clarification yes yes exactly yes 01:26:08.960 --> 01:26:14.399 okay so we now have a motion for approval for the any 01:26:14.399 --> 01:26:17.439 further discussion 01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:25.270 okay are we ready all those in favor of helen's approval 01:26:25.270 --> 01:26:30.159 please say aye with a raise of hand 01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:42.239 aye one two three four all of the above 01:26:44.319 --> 01:26:48.520 all of those opposed please say nay and with a raise of 01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:48.880 your hand 01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:54.720 three nays the eyes have it 01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:01.979 by a narrow margin very narrow so the motion is approved by 01:27:01.979 --> 01:27:04.159 four and denied by three 01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:13.359 okay here we go i feel like i need to take a deep breath 01:27:15.039 --> 01:27:17.600 and let's go on to the next agenda item we need to receive 01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:19.279 a report hold a discussion and give 01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:21.359 a staff direction regarding the update to the historic 01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:23.119 preservation plan and hear a presentation 01:27:23.119 --> 01:27:25.880 from the Lakota group eric thank you so much for your 01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:28.800 presence here tonight i really appreciate 01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:40.359 your work on the square okay we like eric we do he does he 01:27:40.359 --> 01:27:42.560 does a really good job 01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:47.039 while we're doing that can i ask a like a point of order 01:27:47.039 --> 01:27:50.319 again it's a question about the procedure 01:27:50.319 --> 01:27:53.949 because we denied the coa should we not have approved it 01:27:53.949 --> 01:27:56.239 with changes because when we denied 01:27:56.239 --> 01:27:58.689 that didn't they need to go get a new one and come back 01:27:58.689 --> 01:28:01.600 that's why i said no because once you 01:28:01.600 --> 01:28:04.840 denied a coa it's gone from your agenda and so what we 01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:07.520 really probably should have done is approved 01:28:07.520 --> 01:28:10.760 it with modifications that that's the reason i said no is 01:28:10.760 --> 01:28:12.640 because i don't think you can do what 01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:16.630 we just did but i like i'm not upset with the result at all 01:28:16.630 --> 01:28:19.680 that's a good point but so that was 01:28:19.680 --> 01:28:23.579 my question yeah and the the problem was we had we had that 01:28:23.579 --> 01:28:27.039 motion to deny get amended and and so 01:28:27.039 --> 01:28:32.840 it complicated the situation and i i don't know you you 01:28:32.840 --> 01:28:36.880 raise a good point i think that uh that 01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:40.609 that that technically uh it makes a lot of sense but you 01:28:40.609 --> 01:28:43.520 know how you still have the unresolved 01:28:43.520 --> 01:28:48.579 issue of the southern facade was never approved and so from 01:28:48.579 --> 01:28:51.199 a pragmatic standpoint southern 01:28:52.159 --> 01:28:55.520 application well i'm willing to let i just like in the 01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:57.600 future we might want to just think about 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:02.310 running at it the other way now so that it's clear and 01:29:02.310 --> 01:29:04.479 there's no fans or buzz can we not just say 01:29:05.279 --> 01:29:09.680 let us have a a second motion is a clarification to approve 01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:11.600 well and 01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:16.090 and i think one of the things that we've really worked on 01:29:16.090 --> 01:29:17.840 in the last several years is trying to 01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:21.300 work with um owners and operators as much as possible so 01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:23.199 that things can move forward 01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:29.060 but um so i'm really glad that we were at least came to a 01:29:29.060 --> 01:29:32.159 resolve because yes a denial does mean 01:29:32.159 --> 01:29:36.359 that you have to resubmit and then there's a time stamp so 01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:39.359 but don't we need to go back and do what 01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:45.890 Roy said which is deny with well i kind of harken back to 01:29:45.890 --> 01:29:49.359 uh you know henry robert who 01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:53.319 came up with the rules they are they are rules of order 01:29:53.319 --> 01:29:56.720 more than rules of procedure uh they are 01:29:56.720 --> 01:30:00.979 designed to get work done to resolve things pragmatically 01:30:00.979 --> 01:30:03.920 they're they're not really intended to 01:30:04.960 --> 01:30:08.659 stop things from from happening if there's a pragmatic 01:30:08.659 --> 01:30:11.199 result i i think that you did maintain 01:30:11.199 --> 01:30:15.760 order in in your proceedings uh you you you dealt with the 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:18.079 situation as it arose which 01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:23.909 was awkward because of the amendment and uh and so i i 01:30:23.909 --> 01:30:27.760 think you came to a determination that is 01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:33.560 understandable and uh agreeable but uh you know is there a 01:30:33.560 --> 01:30:35.840 better way to do it yeah i mean when 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:39.220 richard hayes presented uh on parliamentary rules to the 01:30:39.220 --> 01:30:42.319 city council he said i've never once seen 01:30:42.319 --> 01:30:48.670 a uh you know any kind of uh board meeting where you could 01:30:48.670 --> 01:30:52.000 you know take shots at it and say yeah 01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:55.869 you could have done it better some other way uh but but the 01:30:55.869 --> 01:30:58.000 point is did you get the work done 01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:02.989 that you needed to do and and maintain order and and uh get 01:31:02.989 --> 01:31:05.760 business done i i think that you 01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:11.149 accomplished your purpose even if you know you you could uh 01:31:11.149 --> 01:31:13.600 you you could point and and find 01:31:13.600 --> 01:31:16.840 procedural errors if you really wanted to look but i i 01:31:16.840 --> 01:31:19.439 think you came to a decision that can be followed 01:31:20.640 --> 01:31:24.539 just double checking that we don't have to revisit this 01:31:24.539 --> 01:31:26.720 again we do know okay all right 01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:37.220 uh-huh oh i've already read it we need to yes please let's 01:31:37.220 --> 01:31:40.159 begin okay sorry i read it before 01:31:40.159 --> 01:31:42.420 well i just have the pleasure and the honor to introduce to 01:31:42.420 --> 01:31:43.840 you uh some gentlemen from the 01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:49.810 lacoda group nick and siraj um who have been uh engaged to 01:31:49.810 --> 01:31:53.279 work to help you guys and me and our 01:31:53.279 --> 01:31:57.250 department uh create a new or update the 1986 historic 01:31:57.250 --> 01:31:59.760 preservation plan for the city of denton 01:32:00.479 --> 01:32:03.159 they have a little presentation they'd like to share with 01:32:03.159 --> 01:32:05.279 you and this is just an introduction 01:32:05.279 --> 01:32:08.909 tonight just just um letting you know that who they are and 01:32:08.909 --> 01:32:11.199 then we can take any uh have any 01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:16.069 discussion that you guys want to have um and i'll pick them 01:32:16.069 --> 01:32:18.880 up and so with no further ado i've got 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:26.760 nick and siraj right here if that's all right with you what 01:32:26.760 --> 01:32:29.600 what you knew that's what it was 01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:32.590 so we're just giving some direction there's nothing to be 01:32:32.590 --> 01:32:34.000 made emotion on okay 01:32:40.479 --> 01:32:44.970 thanks roman commission welcome thank you um my name is 01:32:44.970 --> 01:32:48.319 nick callow jeresis um i'm with the 01:32:48.319 --> 01:32:51.840 lacoda group i have a long last greek name so if you want 01:32:51.840 --> 01:32:54.000 to know how to spell i can give you my 01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:57.979 business card later um it's a pleasure to be here to uh 01:32:57.979 --> 01:33:01.039 work with you on this historic preservation 01:33:01.039 --> 01:33:05.630 plan i have my colleague siraj asfahani with me um here 01:33:05.630 --> 01:33:08.800 today uh we flew in this morning so actually 01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:11.699 we can spend a couple days here in the community do field 01:33:11.699 --> 01:33:13.840 work as we start this planning process 01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:16.949 so um it's great to be here i have a very short 01:33:16.949 --> 01:33:19.600 presentation i know that's probably something 01:33:19.600 --> 01:33:23.479 you're going to appreciate after the discussion you just 01:33:23.479 --> 01:33:26.159 had um and being a former preservation 01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:29.399 commissioner myself i understand completely um how the 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:32.079 decision making can happen um and i want to 01:33:32.079 --> 01:33:34.760 give you a very short uh presentation about what the 01:33:34.760 --> 01:33:36.800 historic preservation plan is about 01:33:37.520 --> 01:33:41.090 as roman said this is really a uh an update to your 01:33:41.090 --> 01:33:44.000 previous historic preservation plan 01:33:44.720 --> 01:33:47.960 and um like any community when you have a comprehensive 01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:49.760 plan or a downtown plan or a 01:33:49.760 --> 01:33:53.119 neighborhood plan communities have historic preservation 01:33:53.119 --> 01:33:54.880 plans because basically you want 01:33:54.880 --> 01:33:58.239 we want to look at the future of historic preservation in a 01:33:58.239 --> 01:33:59.520 community and so we want 01:33:59.520 --> 01:34:02.760 to take a look at what's happened over the last 20 30 years 01:34:02.760 --> 01:34:05.760 update the plan and then um really 01:34:05.760 --> 01:34:09.010 integrate that plan and all the other development policies 01:34:09.010 --> 01:34:12.079 that the city has uh so that's what the 01:34:12.079 --> 01:34:15.920 um the real basic um objective of the historic preservation 01:34:15.920 --> 01:34:18.159 plan is what we'll talk uh to you 01:34:18.159 --> 01:34:21.010 today about is basically the work plan as we go forward is 01:34:21.010 --> 01:34:22.640 is basically going to be probably a 01:34:22.640 --> 01:34:26.000 little less than a year process to develop the plan and to 01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:27.920 tell you a little bit more about who 01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:33.050 we are at the Lakota group as we go forward and um as i've 01:34:33.050 --> 01:34:36.000 said uh really to talk about what a 01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:39.359 preservation plan is about it really kind of involves four 01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:41.119 major things this is kind of the 01:34:41.119 --> 01:34:45.319 big broad areas that we'll be looking at over the next few 01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:48.079 months um the first thing um is 01:34:48.079 --> 01:34:51.090 surveying registration it's basically looking at what you 01:34:51.090 --> 01:34:52.880 've surveyed in your community what 01:34:52.880 --> 01:34:56.119 are some areas that you need to look at and then what our 01:34:56.119 --> 01:34:58.399 future national register districts or 01:34:58.399 --> 01:35:01.760 local districts or even conservation districts so we'll be 01:35:01.760 --> 01:35:04.479 taking a look at that aspect uh we are 01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:07.869 looking at economic development or what we call historic 01:35:07.869 --> 01:35:10.399 preservation based community development 01:35:10.960 --> 01:35:13.430 and we look at how do we integrate historic preservation 01:35:13.430 --> 01:35:15.760 when it comes to revitalizing or 01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:19.119 maintaining the vibrancy of your downtown other commercial 01:35:19.119 --> 01:35:21.039 areas your residential areas so we'll 01:35:21.039 --> 01:35:24.689 be looking at economic development incentives and 01:35:24.689 --> 01:35:29.199 regulatory tools as part of that um the third part 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:33.439 is city program administration we'll be taking a look at 01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:35.520 how the city manages the historic 01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:39.500 preservation program we're looking at how the commission 01:35:39.500 --> 01:35:42.319 operates um staffing um and things 01:35:42.319 --> 01:35:45.680 like that so that's a very important key uh i know that you 01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:48.000 have been updating your ordinances and 01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:51.350 codes we're not going to be taking a heavy look at that but 01:35:51.350 --> 01:35:53.439 we'll be taking a look at where areas 01:35:53.439 --> 01:35:57.750 where you can improve um design guidelines and things like 01:35:57.750 --> 01:36:00.399 that and then last but not least it's 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:03.210 it's also about advocacy and education how do we promote 01:36:03.210 --> 01:36:05.279 the benefits of historic preservation 01:36:05.279 --> 01:36:08.020 because not everybody knows what we know as a commission 01:36:08.020 --> 01:36:09.520 yes what are the benefits of 01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:13.300 preservation so we have to think about how do we promote 01:36:13.300 --> 01:36:15.760 that how do we educate the citizens of 01:36:15.760 --> 01:36:18.289 denton um and how do we get them involved in the 01:36:18.289 --> 01:36:21.119 preservation movement here locally so we'll be 01:36:21.119 --> 01:36:24.859 looking at that uh very closely so all these four parts 01:36:24.859 --> 01:36:28.159 really constitute what we call a comprehensive 01:36:28.159 --> 01:36:31.539 community preservation program so we have all four of these 01:36:31.539 --> 01:36:34.319 parts working well you're doing good it's 01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:37.000 you know it's a comprehensive program so that's why we're 01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:39.840 taking a look at it excellent um just 01:36:39.840 --> 01:36:43.220 talk about the work plan going forward um there's really 01:36:43.220 --> 01:36:45.439 going to be two basic phases to this 01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:49.680 process the first phase is what we call the state of the 01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:52.239 city and uh saraj and i and several other 01:36:52.239 --> 01:36:54.720 people are going to be coming here to the community quite 01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:56.079 often to really take a look at 01:36:57.199 --> 01:37:00.560 your historic districts um your downtown other areas and 01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:03.600 neighborhoods and um we're going to 01:37:03.600 --> 01:37:06.350 be taking a look at where there are future districts um but 01:37:06.350 --> 01:37:08.079 there are a lot of other things that we'll 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:11.619 be doing uh we'll be taking undertaking an active 01:37:11.619 --> 01:37:14.960 stakeholder engagement program so we want to find 01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:18.350 out from the citizens of of denton what they want to see in 01:37:18.350 --> 01:37:20.640 preservation going forward so we are 01:37:20.640 --> 01:37:24.000 going to be talking to the community quite often during 01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:26.239 this process um as i said saraja and i 01:37:26.239 --> 01:37:28.149 are here for the next couple of days hopefully it's not 01:37:28.149 --> 01:37:29.680 going to rain on us tomorrow but that's what 01:37:29.680 --> 01:37:32.920 they're projecting so hopefully we can get a lot of 01:37:32.920 --> 01:37:35.600 photography in uh but we are going to be doing 01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:38.840 a sort of a reconnaissance survey uh we've already had 01:37:38.840 --> 01:37:41.119 discussion with uh roman today about where some 01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:44.359 areas we should be taking a look at uh we'll be doing 01:37:44.359 --> 01:37:46.479 mapping and analysis and i'll talk about 01:37:46.479 --> 01:37:50.680 that in a moment there'll be one community workshop that 01:37:50.680 --> 01:37:53.279 will hold probably january january would be a 01:37:53.279 --> 01:37:56.680 good time for us to escape chicago so um so we're thinking 01:37:56.680 --> 01:37:59.439 that would be a good month uh but we'll 01:37:59.439 --> 01:38:02.880 be here to to have a general community input session about 01:38:02.880 --> 01:38:04.960 preservation we'll also be doing 01:38:04.960 --> 01:38:08.970 an online survey for the community and then by march 2019 01:38:08.970 --> 01:38:11.359 we will have a state of the city report 01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:15.600 which is kind of the summary of the first phase um and then 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:18.000 the analysis um you know we're looking 01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:21.750 at a lot of different things we're also looking at historic 01:38:21.750 --> 01:38:24.399 contexts mainly as we look back in 01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:28.600 the past in denton what are the contexts the historical 01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:31.760 forces the people the built environments 01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:35.960 that we haven't looked at before in the community um we've 01:38:35.960 --> 01:38:38.880 uh over the last few years working with 01:38:38.880 --> 01:38:41.420 communities and preservation plans one of the things they 01:38:41.420 --> 01:38:42.880 always ask us are there groups are 01:38:42.880 --> 01:38:46.420 there people that we haven't really looked at um so you 01:38:46.420 --> 01:38:48.960 know for instance we said this during our 01:38:48.960 --> 01:38:51.800 interview you know what about the hispanic and african-amer 01:38:51.800 --> 01:38:54.319 ican communities here in denton have 01:38:54.319 --> 01:38:56.979 they been looked at what are the built resources associated 01:38:56.979 --> 01:38:58.640 with these groups that should be 01:38:58.640 --> 01:39:01.880 considered so um so those those are just some of the things 01:39:01.880 --> 01:39:03.920 that we'll be taking a look at so we'll 01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:08.130 take a good um long depth look at your historic context and 01:39:08.130 --> 01:39:10.800 what made denton denton basically 01:39:12.159 --> 01:39:14.260 the other part of the analysis is we'll be taking a look at 01:39:14.260 --> 01:39:16.560 a lot of different policy contexts 01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:19.699 we'll be taking a look at all these things i'm not going to 01:39:19.699 --> 01:39:22.079 get into them in any great detail but we 01:39:22.079 --> 01:39:25.439 are looking at tourism we'll be looking at um you know your 01:39:25.439 --> 01:39:27.600 building codes what incentives are out 01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:30.840 there for historic preservation and what needs to be 01:39:30.840 --> 01:39:34.159 developed um we are also looking at sustainability 01:39:34.159 --> 01:39:36.409 how does preservation play a fundamental role in 01:39:36.409 --> 01:39:38.000 sustainability in the community 01:39:38.560 --> 01:39:40.760 and i'll talk about that no more so these are just some of 01:39:40.760 --> 01:39:42.079 the things that we'll be looking at 01:39:42.079 --> 01:39:45.630 during the state of the city process um as part of our 01:39:45.630 --> 01:39:50.000 approach at locota we always believe that a 01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:53.279 strong community preservation program has to have strong 01:39:53.279 --> 01:39:55.279 partnerships it's not only just the 01:39:55.279 --> 01:39:58.039 municipality that is going to be involved in uh 01:39:58.039 --> 01:40:00.800 preservation but who are the other entities we 01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:04.039 need to bring on board that will work with us as partners 01:40:04.039 --> 01:40:06.159 in promoting preservation so these are 01:40:06.159 --> 01:40:09.289 just some of the groups that we'll be taking a look at you 01:40:09.289 --> 01:40:11.279 know obviously if there's civic and 01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.180 neighborhood associations universities and schools um the 01:40:15.180 --> 01:40:18.079 community development entities and um your 01:40:18.079 --> 01:40:21.590 tourism program so we'll be taking a look at how we build a 01:40:21.590 --> 01:40:24.399 stronger organization partnership going 01:40:24.399 --> 01:40:27.649 forward and then we're going to be you know doing a lot of 01:40:27.649 --> 01:40:30.640 different cool analysis because we like 01:40:30.640 --> 01:40:33.989 to do a lot of data crunching at locota and we'll be doing 01:40:33.989 --> 01:40:36.239 a lot of mapping one thing one thing that 01:40:36.239 --> 01:40:39.600 we found interesting in your comprehensive plan that you've 01:40:39.600 --> 01:40:41.680 been working on is there was there's 01:40:41.680 --> 01:40:44.359 really a strong discussion in your comprehensive plan about 01:40:44.359 --> 01:40:47.359 community character and maintaining 01:40:47.359 --> 01:40:50.600 that community character but the comprehensive plan didn't 01:40:50.600 --> 01:40:52.560 tell you where community character 01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:56.020 happens in denton and so we're going to do that in the 01:40:56.020 --> 01:40:59.039 preservation plan where are those areas in 01:40:59.039 --> 01:41:02.319 the community that have high character i show you a map 01:41:02.319 --> 01:41:05.039 from a plan that we're wrapping up in recene 01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:08.279 wisconsin where they asked us to map where the high 01:41:08.279 --> 01:41:10.800 character areas are and where there's potential 01:41:10.800 --> 01:41:14.159 for adaptive use where there's potential for preservation 01:41:14.159 --> 01:41:15.920 so we're going to just map those 01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:18.840 areas out for you because those may be areas that we may 01:41:18.840 --> 01:41:20.479 want to take a look at closely 01:41:20.479 --> 01:41:22.779 whether they're historic districts or conservation 01:41:22.779 --> 01:41:25.520 districts or areas where we have to take you know 01:41:25.520 --> 01:41:29.739 take some measures to protect that character and then the 01:41:29.739 --> 01:41:32.640 the second phase is really preparing the 01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:37.170 preservation plan so from april to july 2019 we'll be 01:41:37.170 --> 01:41:40.159 writing the draft plan we'll have another 01:41:40.159 --> 01:41:43.060 community open house we'll present that planning and to 01:41:43.060 --> 01:41:46.319 gain additional community feedback we'll 01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:49.470 have consultation with the city and the commission and then 01:41:49.470 --> 01:41:51.359 we'll develop the final plan so we're 01:41:51.359 --> 01:41:55.689 looking at july 2019 to have that happen and then the 01:41:55.689 --> 01:41:58.239 contents of the preservation plan 01:41:59.359 --> 01:42:01.409 you know basically this is kind of giving you a sneak peek 01:42:01.409 --> 01:42:03.279 of what we think could be in the 01:42:03.279 --> 01:42:07.300 in the plan but one is to have an executive summary an 01:42:07.300 --> 01:42:09.760 introduction the historic preservation plan 01:42:09.760 --> 01:42:14.449 will be the first part of the plan and then implementation 01:42:14.449 --> 01:42:17.119 will be important key and then 01:42:17.119 --> 01:42:20.140 we'll have a big description about your historic resources 01:42:20.140 --> 01:42:21.279 here in the community 01:42:22.079 --> 01:42:24.529 and then we'll be taking a look at all your other city 01:42:24.529 --> 01:42:27.039 planning and programs that have some 01:42:27.039 --> 01:42:31.000 aspects or some relationship to historic preservation and 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:32.640 last but not least we'll 01:42:32.640 --> 01:42:35.609 have a chapter on community engagement and summarizing what 01:42:35.609 --> 01:42:37.119 the community told us during 01:42:37.119 --> 01:42:40.479 this process and i'll let saraj do the next couple of 01:42:40.479 --> 01:42:42.079 slides and we'll wrap up 01:42:45.199 --> 01:42:48.630 so community engagement is the process of relationship 01:42:48.630 --> 01:42:50.079 building with the community 01:42:50.079 --> 01:42:53.319 specifically in a community planning process we do 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:56.319 community engagement in four phases we start 01:42:56.319 --> 01:42:59.560 with informing we inform the community about the plan 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:01.920 through a project website and a project brand 01:43:01.920 --> 01:43:05.159 and through social media where we connect with different 01:43:05.159 --> 01:43:06.720 organizations and civic groups and then 01:43:07.279 --> 01:43:09.850 after that we start our listening phase where we do 01:43:09.850 --> 01:43:12.319 listening in two different ways first 01:43:12.319 --> 01:43:16.649 stakeholder interviews stakeholders are particularly a 01:43:16.649 --> 01:43:20.079 group of a specific group of people that have a 01:43:20.079 --> 01:43:23.470 unique relationship with the city of denton and we need to 01:43:23.470 --> 01:43:25.680 hear their voice while that is a very 01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:29.340 specific group we always have surveys open to the public 01:43:29.340 --> 01:43:31.840 and that's how we hear their feedback 01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:36.180 and then we also hear the feedback of the community when we 01:43:36.180 --> 01:43:38.319 engage with them in workshops 01:43:38.319 --> 01:43:41.189 so workshops can happen in two different ways either 01:43:41.189 --> 01:43:43.520 community open house where we set a date 01:43:43.520 --> 01:43:48.029 and people come to us or we surprise people by going to pop 01:43:48.029 --> 01:43:50.800 up and we bring the plan with us and 01:43:50.800 --> 01:43:53.560 find the people and talk to them about it last but not 01:43:53.560 --> 01:43:56.000 least we empower this community engagement 01:43:56.000 --> 01:43:58.550 process with the steering committee the steering committee 01:43:58.550 --> 01:44:00.640 are the group that basically help us do 01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:05.100 all the previous engagement engagement of pieces and the 01:44:05.100 --> 01:44:08.880 landmark commission and with the steering 01:44:08.880 --> 01:44:11.279 committee they're going to be very engaged in the process 01:44:11.279 --> 01:44:13.199 and they're going to be helping us develop 01:44:13.199 --> 01:44:16.439 the plan and we're going to check in with them on several 01:44:16.439 --> 01:44:18.479 milestones and make sure that they 01:44:19.039 --> 01:44:23.770 are working hand in hand with us that being said we are not 01:44:23.770 --> 01:44:27.359 worried about diehard preservationists 01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:30.789 they're going to be there every single meeting they're not 01:44:30.789 --> 01:44:32.720 going to miss an opportunity what 01:44:32.720 --> 01:44:35.399 we're worried about are underrepresented groups 01:44:35.399 --> 01:44:37.920 traditionally underrepresented in the planning 01:44:37.920 --> 01:44:42.630 process and we have learned that in every community there's 01:44:42.630 --> 01:44:45.680 a group of underrepresented 01:44:46.319 --> 01:44:49.050 and we need to find ways to cross those barriers of 01:44:49.050 --> 01:44:53.279 participation that they have so some of them 01:44:53.279 --> 01:44:57.479 might be millennials seniors communities of color college 01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:00.479 students and we've over time learned that 01:45:00.479 --> 01:45:04.319 we need to find out what those challenges are target them 01:45:04.319 --> 01:45:06.880 and find the best strategies in order 01:45:06.880 --> 01:45:09.239 to across those barriers and we're going to work with you 01:45:09.239 --> 01:45:11.119 and different community groups in order 01:45:11.119 --> 01:45:17.090 to reach out to them and get them engaged with that oh yeah 01:45:17.090 --> 01:45:22.399 and so this this plan or this community 01:45:22.399 --> 01:45:29.869 engagement plan specifically it's a great looking mural 01:45:29.869 --> 01:45:33.439 where's this mural at again okay so 01:45:37.039 --> 01:45:39.289 we're here to build on previous efforts and through your 01:45:39.289 --> 01:45:42.560 strategic plan we heard a lot about 01:45:43.199 --> 01:45:46.439 a little campaign that said we love denton and we want to 01:45:46.439 --> 01:45:48.720 keep that campaign happening and that's 01:45:48.720 --> 01:45:51.229 going to be our tagline moving forward into this 01:45:51.229 --> 01:45:52.319 preservation plan 01:45:58.239 --> 01:46:00.399 okay just to wrap up we have a couple more slides 01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:05.409 just to give you a preview our preservation plans are not 01:46:05.409 --> 01:46:09.359 text they we pride on putting a 01:46:09.359 --> 01:46:13.119 lot of graphics and images in them so that they're nice to 01:46:13.119 --> 01:46:14.800 look at it's a document you 01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:17.609 would want to read it's something that we want the public 01:46:17.609 --> 01:46:19.359 to read and other stakeholders so 01:46:20.319 --> 01:46:23.340 it's going to be a very visual document so just to give you 01:46:23.340 --> 01:46:25.760 a preview on that and then last but 01:46:25.760 --> 01:46:28.439 not least i just wanted to give you an overview if the work 01:46:28.439 --> 01:46:30.079 the lacoda group we're based in 01:46:30.079 --> 01:46:33.460 chicago illinois we do preservation planning around the 01:46:33.460 --> 01:46:35.680 country but for this assignment we've 01:46:35.680 --> 01:46:39.039 brought two sub consultants on that will be working with us 01:46:39.039 --> 01:46:41.439 one is the clue group it's called the 01:46:41.439 --> 01:46:43.750 community land use and economics group they're actually 01:46:43.750 --> 01:46:46.079 based in philadelphia and they're going 01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:49.039 to kind of help us on the economic development end because 01:46:49.039 --> 01:46:51.039 we feel that that's an important thing 01:46:51.039 --> 01:46:53.789 here in denton is to look at incentives and how do we 01:46:53.789 --> 01:46:56.000 integrate preservation and economic 01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:59.640 development so they'll be helping us on this project and 01:46:59.640 --> 01:47:01.680 then the second firm is mosley 01:47:01.680 --> 01:47:05.409 architects they're based in baltimore and tom weibull is a 01:47:05.409 --> 01:47:07.439 principal there he's going to help us 01:47:07.439 --> 01:47:10.210 on sustainability and sustainable design how do we 01:47:10.210 --> 01:47:12.800 integrate preservation into sustainability and 01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:15.670 he's an expert on that so we'll be taking a look at your 01:47:15.670 --> 01:47:18.640 design guidelines and seeing how sustainable 01:47:18.640 --> 01:47:22.880 sustainable design can be integrated with preservation so 01:47:22.880 --> 01:47:24.399 so that's going to be the 01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:28.180 team you'll be seeing the josh bloom and tom a couple times 01:47:28.180 --> 01:47:30.239 during this process you'll see 01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:33.390 siraj and i and a few others throughout the course of this 01:47:33.390 --> 01:47:34.960 project over the next year 01:47:35.600 --> 01:47:39.810 so that's it thank you so much this looks fantastic do we 01:47:39.810 --> 01:47:41.359 have any questions 01:47:45.039 --> 01:47:48.279 i have just a just a couple i just made a couple notes as 01:47:48.279 --> 01:47:50.000 your slides i'd looked at them before so 01:47:50.000 --> 01:47:53.350 they are very graphically very nice i like this so you and 01:47:53.350 --> 01:47:55.439 i'll just give you the through how did 01:47:55.439 --> 01:47:58.680 you how what is the steering committee um how do you choose 01:47:58.680 --> 01:48:00.479 your stakeholders how are you doing the 01:48:00.479 --> 01:48:04.329 selection processes for many of these things well i believe 01:48:04.329 --> 01:48:06.880 the uh you probably should have been more 01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:09.090 clear on the disturbing committee is going to be the 01:48:09.090 --> 01:48:11.119 commission i see pretty much is that correct 01:48:11.920 --> 01:48:16.319 i i just wonder to this and the stakeholders and stuff 01:48:19.600 --> 01:48:22.310 withhold judgment i believe that we've got to get asked uh 01:48:22.310 --> 01:48:23.600 confirmed that that's okay with city 01:48:23.600 --> 01:48:26.840 council we're moving in the direction that either the landm 01:48:26.840 --> 01:48:29.760 ack commission or in in total or if we're 01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:32.760 given the authority we could probably choose less people 01:48:32.760 --> 01:48:34.560 five or seven of you all or something like 01:48:34.560 --> 01:48:38.550 that for a committee yeah okay i'm sure just want to just 01:48:38.550 --> 01:48:40.720 add to that that the code group is 01:48:40.720 --> 01:48:43.329 also going to be presenting to city council uh tomorrow 01:48:43.329 --> 01:48:45.359 afternoon that's actually is that not 01:48:45.359 --> 01:48:48.229 true yeah it's postponed for a little bit but it's a 01:48:48.229 --> 01:48:50.960 problem so we haven't got that confirmation yet 01:48:54.319 --> 01:48:56.000 any other questions okay 01:48:57.840 --> 01:49:02.079 helen um what sort of data are you going to be collecting 01:49:03.840 --> 01:49:07.079 well um let's see uh well we're going to be looking at 01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:10.159 everything that's been done before 01:49:11.199 --> 01:49:14.960 all your survey work uh your previous preservation plans 01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:17.439 your national register nominations your 01:49:17.439 --> 01:49:21.289 local nominations we'll be taking a look at all of that we 01:49:21.289 --> 01:49:24.000 'll be reviewing all your other community 01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:27.729 plans that are relevant including your comprehensive plan 01:49:27.729 --> 01:49:30.000 other plans so we'll be taking a look at all 01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:33.460 those things your economic development programs um we are 01:49:33.460 --> 01:49:36.560 going to be looking at a variety of gis 01:49:36.560 --> 01:49:41.050 data they'll help us do some of the analysis such as 01:49:41.050 --> 01:49:44.640 character areas um so we we already have that 01:49:44.640 --> 01:49:48.880 in house at lacoda for our gis information so that's just 01:49:48.880 --> 01:49:52.079 that's basically what we'll be looking at 01:49:52.079 --> 01:49:55.319 in the first few months it's just taking a look at all that 01:49:55.319 --> 01:49:57.199 information so what about field work 01:49:57.199 --> 01:50:00.890 then what are you gathering in your field work well for the 01:50:00.890 --> 01:50:02.880 next couple of days we're primarily 01:50:02.880 --> 01:50:05.210 doing our field work the next couple of days we're first 01:50:05.210 --> 01:50:06.479 going to be looking at all your 01:50:06.479 --> 01:50:10.220 all your districts uh we looked at the downtown today uh we 01:50:10.220 --> 01:50:13.119 talked with uh roman this afternoon 01:50:13.119 --> 01:50:17.039 about some key areas that could be future historic 01:50:17.039 --> 01:50:20.720 districts um areas that are of concern um 01:50:21.840 --> 01:50:24.170 i think we are you know one of the things that has been 01:50:24.170 --> 01:50:26.640 very interesting the last few years um 01:50:26.640 --> 01:50:29.539 doing preservation plans is you know neighborhoods that 01:50:29.539 --> 01:50:31.760 were developed in the 50s and 60s are now 01:50:31.760 --> 01:50:34.779 historic right you know so we'll be taking a look at a lot 01:50:34.779 --> 01:50:36.640 of those post-world war two um 01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:40.760 areas but we are also looking at you know areas that 01:50:40.760 --> 01:50:42.800 historically had you know your african 01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:46.039 american population uh your spanish population so we'll be 01:50:46.039 --> 01:50:48.880 taking a look at those so uh so we 01:50:48.880 --> 01:50:52.479 talked with roman today and he gave us a good um a good uh 01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:54.640 lay of the land and we'll be talking 01:50:54.640 --> 01:50:57.199 with him tomorrow a little bit more we'll also be looking 01:50:57.199 --> 01:50:59.359 at significant architects and people 01:50:59.359 --> 01:51:02.390 you know that are that are important to the community are 01:51:02.390 --> 01:51:04.319 there interviews with the community 01:51:05.279 --> 01:51:07.909 yes um that's probably something we probably should have 01:51:07.909 --> 01:51:10.319 made a little bit more um explicit 01:51:10.319 --> 01:51:13.560 in our presentation we are coming back in december tent 01:51:13.560 --> 01:51:16.720 atively for the uh probably the first first or 01:51:16.720 --> 01:51:19.529 second week in december we haven't pinned down the exact 01:51:19.529 --> 01:51:22.319 dates we'll be working with roman the next 01:51:22.319 --> 01:51:25.989 few weeks on setting up stakeholder interviews so we'll be 01:51:25.989 --> 01:51:28.399 coming back for two and a half days to 01:51:28.399 --> 01:51:31.890 do a series of stakeholder interviews and i'm bringing the 01:51:31.890 --> 01:51:33.840 entire team to the stakeholder 01:51:33.840 --> 01:51:38.170 interview so we can talk to a wide variety cross section of 01:51:38.170 --> 01:51:40.800 the community are there any surveys 01:51:41.840 --> 01:51:46.039 yes there'll be at least one survey um we'll do that survey 01:51:46.039 --> 01:51:47.840 probably around the same time when 01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:51.079 we do the open house and it's probably going to be in mid 01:51:51.079 --> 01:51:53.359 january and the survey it's you know it 01:51:53.359 --> 01:51:56.600 will be internet based um and then we'll you know we'll 01:51:56.600 --> 01:51:58.560 work with roman in the city to try to 01:51:58.560 --> 01:52:01.920 publicize it as much as possible but there'll be at least 01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:04.239 one survey sometimes we do two surveys 01:52:04.239 --> 01:52:07.600 once the draft plan is done you know to see if there's a 01:52:07.600 --> 01:52:10.399 need to do a second one okay so so 01:52:10.399 --> 01:52:15.680 that's full community input all citizens sort of survey yes 01:52:15.680 --> 01:52:20.880 very good thank you any other questions 01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:25.640 okay thank you so much for your time all right thank you 01:52:25.640 --> 01:52:28.640 look forward to working with you yes 01:52:30.640 --> 01:52:30.960 okay 01:52:36.159 --> 01:52:39.399 okay there's no motion to be made for that agenda item so 01:52:39.399 --> 01:52:41.920 we can actually go ahead and move on to 01:52:41.920 --> 01:52:45.789 agenda item e receive a report hold a discussion and select 01:52:45.789 --> 01:52:47.760 a historic property of the month 01:52:47.760 --> 01:52:51.600 the fun part i forgot we had that yay 01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:01.989 okay in your packet you had three houses to choose from but 01:53:01.989 --> 01:53:03.920 now you have two i couldn't get 01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:06.810 confirmation from one of the owners that i could use their 01:53:06.810 --> 01:53:09.119 property for this so i'm bringing back 01:53:09.119 --> 01:53:13.430 to you two homes at one at 606 robert street that you saw 01:53:13.430 --> 01:53:15.680 last time this was designed by 01:53:15.680 --> 01:53:19.039 roland laney who was a local architect here who did a lot 01:53:19.039 --> 01:53:23.279 of work and didn't and built around 1950 01:53:23.840 --> 01:53:27.489 and this is just to the west of the bell avenue still 01:53:27.489 --> 01:53:30.640 conservation district soon to be historic 01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:33.880 district this is a mid-century modern house they're 01:53:33.880 --> 01:53:35.920 actually undergoing some extensive 01:53:37.279 --> 01:53:39.609 let's see work in the back they're putting in a swimming 01:53:39.609 --> 01:53:41.279 pool and a lot of things but they brought 01:53:41.279 --> 01:53:43.630 in the work looks really good and i've had the pleasure of 01:53:43.630 --> 01:53:44.960 walking through this house it was 01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:48.319 like a mid-century modern museum perfectly intact all the 01:53:48.319 --> 01:53:50.640 wood detailing i hope we get an opportunity 01:53:50.640 --> 01:53:55.060 sometime to to visit it together then down below is 1003 01:53:55.060 --> 01:53:58.079 west oak built in 1910 out on on the 01:53:58.880 --> 01:54:01.050 out on west oak and this is just another home you've seen 01:54:01.050 --> 01:54:02.319 this before but we thought we could 01:54:02.319 --> 01:54:05.409 bring one back and this had been before you three times but 01:54:05.409 --> 01:54:07.199 not three consecutive times so 01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:12.439 just asking for approval to keep our great program going 01:54:12.439 --> 01:54:13.840 excellent 01:54:16.479 --> 01:54:20.899 all right so we're voting on the top and the bottom so we 01:54:20.899 --> 01:54:24.720 've got b and c there's no discussion 01:54:24.720 --> 01:54:30.520 necessary you have to choose either b or c you're going to 01:54:30.520 --> 01:54:33.119 pick one i'm going to ask you to raise 01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:36.720 your hand in just a moment i'm going to give you a moment 01:54:36.720 --> 01:54:39.680 to think about it really weigh your options 01:54:42.319 --> 01:54:47.470 okay here we go if you would like to vote for b as the 01:54:47.470 --> 01:54:49.840 historic property of the month please 01:54:49.840 --> 01:54:58.189 raise your hand okay if you would like to vote for c as the 01:54:58.189 --> 01:55:00.960 historic property of the month please 01:55:00.960 --> 01:55:06.359 raise your hand five okay stuff the ballot box with us i 01:55:06.359 --> 01:55:10.000 know i think we've got some uh we've 01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:12.760 got some representation from the neighborhood over here 01:55:12.760 --> 01:55:14.239 just across the street okay so 01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:22.359 but we live across the street from this okay so uh five to 01:55:22.359 --> 01:55:27.279 two um and the 01:55:29.039 --> 01:55:35.680 1003 west oak took the vote thank you roman for another 01:55:35.680 --> 01:55:37.520 exciting round of historic property of the 01:55:37.520 --> 01:55:41.050 month i'd like to give a shout out to mid-century mods oh i 01:55:41.050 --> 01:55:45.039 think yes especially when they're not 01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:48.279 already in they need to go on tour and then they might get 01:55:48.279 --> 01:55:50.000 see yeah yeah 01:55:52.399 --> 01:55:57.270 we got another couple more items yet okay do i have to make 01:55:57.270 --> 01:55:59.439 a real motion for that no we're good 01:56:00.479 --> 01:56:03.840 all right project matrix let's take a look 01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:10.880 thank you guys see you tomorrow thank you so much 01:56:12.960 --> 01:56:16.159 we've got some to be determined dates in here and not a lot 01:56:16.159 --> 01:56:17.439 of changes from the last time you've 01:56:17.439 --> 01:56:22.479 seen this um if you want to add anything to it everything's 01:56:22.479 --> 01:56:25.359 sort of in the works sure 01:56:27.119 --> 01:56:30.479 okay if anybody has something to add please let me know 01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:39.779 roy well i have can i ask a general question absolutely 01:56:39.779 --> 01:56:42.960 okay so eric was here and we denied 01:56:42.960 --> 01:56:45.350 him and so theoretically he has to go away and take the 01:56:45.350 --> 01:56:47.039 paint off the front of the building 01:56:47.039 --> 01:56:49.520 yes how long before he starts getting fined 01:56:52.960 --> 01:57:00.479 how much is the fine 500 a day i don't um there's obviously 01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:02.720 going to be a follow-up with 01:57:02.720 --> 01:57:07.500 mr palito we'll follow up with him set a timeline typically 01:57:07.500 --> 01:57:11.359 we will give the person resident or 01:57:11.359 --> 01:57:15.560 property owner adequate time to remediate the issue so as 01:57:15.560 --> 01:57:17.760 far as i find i don't think we're 01:57:17.760 --> 01:57:21.359 gonna enter that yet but we'll definitely follow up with 01:57:21.359 --> 01:57:24.000 the with mr eric palito thank you 01:57:25.840 --> 01:57:29.279 i'll add to that that there is an appeals process so i don 01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:31.119 't know which way to go 01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:36.039 can i ask a question to that yes angie so with an appeal 01:57:36.039 --> 01:57:40.159 process since he did the work before he 01:57:40.159 --> 01:57:45.029 ever got a certificate of appropriateness how can he be 01:57:45.029 --> 01:57:49.600 able to go and appeal to that and i do believe 01:57:49.600 --> 01:57:53.149 there should be a citation given um because he did do it 01:57:53.149 --> 01:57:55.840 without unless he was directed by staff to 01:57:55.840 --> 01:57:59.079 go ahead i think that um that is an order because it was 01:57:59.079 --> 01:58:01.359 done before he came before the board 01:58:02.319 --> 01:58:05.500 i see ron writing things down so he's we you know we have i 01:58:05.500 --> 01:58:07.840 just want i just want to make sure 01:58:07.840 --> 01:58:12.039 posting though uh you know just from a technical standpoint 01:58:12.039 --> 01:58:14.479 the that the posting was to consider 01:58:15.680 --> 01:58:18.340 approving a certificate of appropriateness we're getting 01:58:18.340 --> 01:58:20.399 into enforcement areas that 01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:24.949 are not even necessarily uh you know part of this but it's 01:58:24.949 --> 01:58:26.880 it's it's clearly not a 01:58:27.439 --> 01:58:31.149 part of the posting of approving a certificate of appropri 01:58:31.149 --> 01:58:33.680 ateness so it may be something as far as 01:58:33.680 --> 01:58:37.310 giving direction for bringing an issue back uh that i'm 01:58:37.310 --> 01:58:40.079 just concerned about the open meetings act 01:58:40.800 --> 01:58:44.369 and and getting outside the posting that was well i give it 01:58:44.369 --> 01:58:47.119 just a kind of a follow-up but as far as 01:58:48.479 --> 01:58:52.279 my feeling has been is all we do is just say oh that wasn't 01:58:52.279 --> 01:58:55.039 right to do it so i think if we do not 01:58:56.000 --> 01:58:59.170 have some kind of posting on what is the penalty for doing 01:58:59.170 --> 01:59:01.439 it everybody is going to keep doing it 01:59:02.079 --> 01:59:04.409 because we talked after the meeting about one of the houses 01:59:04.409 --> 01:59:06.159 in our neighborhood and roman you were 01:59:06.159 --> 01:59:12.609 there i it was it didn't make this and i may be john who 01:59:12.609 --> 01:59:17.119 noted that should follow up with you but 01:59:17.119 --> 01:59:19.100 certificate of appropriate i mean if what if somebody just 01:59:19.100 --> 01:59:20.000 doesn't bother put one up 01:59:20.880 --> 01:59:24.119 and yet they've changed the character about the historic 01:59:24.119 --> 01:59:26.000 house right and we did talk about that 01:59:26.000 --> 01:59:29.460 after the meeting yeah we've got that one and i have it 01:59:29.460 --> 01:59:31.359 that's the house now they made some 01:59:31.359 --> 01:59:35.279 alterations in the back they changed the windows inside 01:59:35.279 --> 01:59:37.520 yeah um well in my you know i've been here 01:59:37.520 --> 01:59:40.760 two and a half years and there has been other than that 01:59:40.760 --> 01:59:42.880 incident i think i can't i have a hard time 01:59:42.880 --> 01:59:46.550 thinking of a lot of times it hasn't in my time been here 01:59:46.550 --> 01:59:49.279 been a problem across the street 01:59:50.880 --> 01:59:54.239 shall i go on it's a common thing but this is not for right 01:59:54.239 --> 01:59:56.159 now so let's move on i just want to 01:59:56.159 --> 01:59:59.399 say that we do need to handle this at some point because it 01:59:59.399 --> 02:00:01.840 happens all of the time and people 02:00:01.840 --> 02:00:04.510 even though you bike around the neighborhood i don't see 02:00:04.510 --> 02:00:06.079 whose whose job is it to say you've 02:00:06.079 --> 02:00:08.640 done something without appropriateness i would like to know 02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:09.199 that answer 02:00:12.720 --> 02:00:14.630 let me just try to address that real quick and then we'll 02:00:14.630 --> 02:00:17.279 speak specifically to the subject matter 02:00:18.720 --> 02:00:22.960 after tonight the results of the vote from the commission 02:00:22.960 --> 02:00:25.520 roman will send out a letter 02:00:26.399 --> 02:00:29.649 of what has happened and what their next steps will be they 02:00:29.649 --> 02:00:33.039 being the eric bolido and applicant 02:00:33.039 --> 02:00:37.029 and within that letter there will be some timeline as to 02:00:37.029 --> 02:00:40.159 when that front facade will be addressed and 02:00:40.159 --> 02:00:44.039 if you like we can share with you what that is either at 02:00:44.039 --> 02:00:47.199 our next meeting or you know through 02:00:47.199 --> 02:00:49.550 email we can also do that as well well i extended that 02:00:49.550 --> 02:00:51.359 question on to ask what happens to people 02:00:51.359 --> 02:00:53.859 who don't even bother like eric did which i gave him credit 02:00:53.859 --> 02:00:55.520 for at least applying for it even though 02:00:55.520 --> 02:00:58.609 he was seeking forgiveness as opposed to permission to do 02:00:58.609 --> 02:01:00.479 it anyway and never even apply for a 02:01:00.479 --> 02:01:03.979 specific appropriate and where the u is to monitor that so 02:01:03.979 --> 02:01:08.560 i mean it's another it's another issue but 02:01:08.560 --> 02:01:11.239 i think we have i would like to put that on the agenda or 02:01:11.239 --> 02:01:14.720 how do we deal with this because 02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:17.960 people do it all the time and nobody does anything 02:01:17.960 --> 02:01:19.840 guidelines for enforcement is that 02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:22.170 what you're asking for well what do you do with somebody 02:01:22.170 --> 02:01:24.079 who has done something that has not been 02:01:24.079 --> 02:01:26.500 approved at all and doesn't even bother to come here and 02:01:26.500 --> 02:01:28.079 they know what full well they they're 02:01:28.079 --> 02:01:32.069 supposed to it's a code enforcement it's a prosecution 02:01:32.069 --> 02:01:34.399 enforcement all those yeah 02:01:36.239 --> 02:01:40.180 i mean it has to be reported and then it goes to i mean 02:01:40.180 --> 02:01:42.640 since we're the historic commission it's a 02:01:42.640 --> 02:01:46.949 violation of of the of historic codes it is but but a 02:01:46.949 --> 02:01:50.079 violation of code is brought before the 02:01:50.079 --> 02:01:54.380 municipal court and it's a prosecution issue uh yes that 02:01:54.380 --> 02:01:57.680 there there is some uh you know discretion 02:01:57.680 --> 02:02:03.479 in bringing it forward and in having a trial and what have 02:02:03.479 --> 02:02:06.239 you but uh in terms of perhaps 02:02:07.199 --> 02:02:10.560 you know policy direction for a code amendment if that's 02:02:10.560 --> 02:02:13.199 kind of a direction that you're going to 02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:17.539 to change policy that's probably you know for a future time 02:02:17.539 --> 02:02:19.840 yeah i agree it's for a future time 02:02:19.840 --> 02:02:24.250 but it keeps popping up and so i mean just just really 02:02:24.250 --> 02:02:27.680 quickly add that um if it is a zoning 02:02:27.680 --> 02:02:31.109 requirement and zoning of appropriateness is a zoning 02:02:31.109 --> 02:02:34.239 requirement we do have two zoning officers 02:02:34.239 --> 02:02:37.949 and so any report of any violation will be forwarded to 02:02:37.949 --> 02:02:40.000 those two officers they will follow 02:02:40.000 --> 02:02:44.199 up and if needed citations and any follow-ups will happen 02:02:44.199 --> 02:02:45.199 accordingly 02:02:48.000 --> 02:02:50.220 and uh certainly if there have been other violations that 02:02:50.220 --> 02:02:51.520 you mentioned 02:02:51.920 --> 02:02:56.159 they haven't made it here of course not yeah i have not 02:02:56.159 --> 02:02:58.399 seen that and i wasn't aware of it i mean 02:02:58.399 --> 02:03:03.739 i don't live in your neighborhood but uh we don't get a lot 02:03:03.739 --> 02:03:06.720 of uh sort of a discussion on on that 02:03:06.720 --> 02:03:11.779 on that topic maybe never since and i've been one year here 02:03:11.779 --> 02:03:15.520 so thank you ellen roy well i'm 02:03:16.079 --> 02:03:19.260 i don't know that i mean it's a code enforcement issue i 02:03:19.260 --> 02:03:20.960 mean those violations would probably 02:03:20.960 --> 02:03:24.470 never come on our agenda right it's not not what we do not 02:03:24.470 --> 02:03:26.000 unless they issue a coa 02:03:27.920 --> 02:03:30.550 right we follow up retroactively even that becomes an 02:03:30.550 --> 02:03:33.199 enforcement issue like suppose we issue a coa 02:03:33.199 --> 02:03:36.020 and someone doesn't follow it that never comes back on our 02:03:36.020 --> 02:03:40.079 agenda does it uh not general i mean 02:03:40.079 --> 02:03:44.060 i guess what i'm really saying is do what you want is what 02:03:44.060 --> 02:03:47.119 i hear i mean that's what i hear if if you 02:03:47.119 --> 02:03:50.720 don't apply for a coa i'm here and do what you want because 02:03:50.720 --> 02:03:52.880 nobody cares i mean i i just kind 02:03:52.880 --> 02:03:56.329 of what i hear well no it's just it's a code enforcement 02:03:56.329 --> 02:03:58.960 city officer they're the enforcement 02:03:58.960 --> 02:04:03.159 branch we simply review coas and issue them or deny them or 02:04:03.159 --> 02:04:05.359 approve them with modification 02:04:06.079 --> 02:04:08.149 though if someone does what you're suggesting yeah there's 02:04:08.149 --> 02:04:10.960 there's certainly a process for that but 02:04:10.960 --> 02:04:16.750 it's not us educate me later on we can do a little i'd like 02:04:16.750 --> 02:04:19.359 to do a little background i was quickly 02:04:19.359 --> 02:04:21.970 checking on that i know in brownsville texas the landmark 02:04:21.970 --> 02:04:24.159 commission can actually suggest the 02:04:24.159 --> 02:04:27.850 a penalty and i'm looking here this is where we get into it 02:04:27.850 --> 02:04:29.680 on this part of the code but 02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:32.289 i don't remember having that penalty options i'm sorry i 02:04:32.289 --> 02:04:34.960 didn't but but i but i on the topic i just 02:04:34.960 --> 02:04:37.930 want to say that it we haven't seen it a lot and if it's an 02:04:37.930 --> 02:04:40.239 issue we we in turn we need to get on 02:04:40.239 --> 02:04:44.949 that a part of it but i will say um and and this gets to 02:04:44.949 --> 02:04:48.640 the point of a mr palito's painting on his 02:04:48.640 --> 02:04:52.300 building um that you know we're going we are the city of 02:04:52.300 --> 02:04:55.359 the development service department's making 02:04:55.359 --> 02:04:58.970 really good progress with an ordinance amendment that will 02:04:58.970 --> 02:05:01.520 really provide some level of protection 02:05:01.520 --> 02:05:05.409 for the downtown square and that's gotten nearly well no 02:05:05.409 --> 02:05:08.159 unanimous support from the business owners 02:05:08.159 --> 02:05:10.819 and the building owners in the community and i think that 02:05:10.819 --> 02:05:12.479 credit goes to scott mcdonald who 02:05:13.760 --> 02:05:17.119 kind of came up with the idea of how to put pull that 02:05:17.119 --> 02:05:19.760 together and i i hope that people keep keep 02:05:19.760 --> 02:05:23.119 in there keep in mind that you know let's move forward and 02:05:23.119 --> 02:05:25.279 do good but sometimes you've got to 02:05:25.279 --> 02:05:28.520 choose your choose the battles as they say but importantly 02:05:28.520 --> 02:05:30.319 that's a cliche the important thing 02:05:30.319 --> 02:05:34.020 is that we uh keep keep our eye on the big goal of the long 02:05:34.020 --> 02:05:37.520 -term heritage of our city and and 02:05:37.520 --> 02:05:40.359 the landmark commission in the past before i was here a 02:05:40.359 --> 02:05:42.720 long time ago apparently there were problems 02:05:42.720 --> 02:05:45.060 that were this at time that even the city council 02:05:45.060 --> 02:05:47.600 considered that this this taking away the landmark 02:05:47.600 --> 02:05:50.840 commission so uh you know the the we've got to not not 02:05:50.840 --> 02:05:53.359 saying we wrote we we protect buildings 02:05:53.359 --> 02:05:55.760 that's what we're going to do we're always going to do that 02:05:55.760 --> 02:05:57.359 i'm just saying keep an eye on the big 02:05:57.359 --> 02:06:01.159 picture that's all that's what i would suggest we keep 02:06:01.159 --> 02:06:04.159 trying to do but uh i have one more item if 02:06:04.159 --> 02:06:07.399 we get if you oh you still have this before you the uh the 02:06:07.399 --> 02:06:09.039 project matrix matrix here 02:06:11.520 --> 02:06:14.250 okay did you say you have one more item we've added the uh 02:06:14.250 --> 02:06:16.560 and talking about enforcement next 02:06:16.560 --> 02:06:18.699 time some kind of or some kind of clarification on 02:06:18.699 --> 02:06:21.039 enforcement and then you want to we're going 02:06:21.039 --> 02:06:26.239 to follow up on that house over there um where on here is 02:06:26.239 --> 02:06:29.760 the effort that we were was presented to us 02:06:29.760 --> 02:06:34.789 just now it well that happened a while back it's been 02:06:34.789 --> 02:06:40.000 allocated um so so okay there's no action on 02:06:40.000 --> 02:06:44.010 our part no put it on right now if the plans go forward i 02:06:44.010 --> 02:06:46.720 'll meet with them and we'll we do need 02:06:46.720 --> 02:06:49.689 to just confirm how we move forward and we want to run run 02:06:49.689 --> 02:06:52.000 it by city council they've uh already 02:06:52.000 --> 02:06:53.909 approved a budget for this we just want to make sure they 02:06:53.909 --> 02:06:55.279 're fully on board with their direction 02:06:55.279 --> 02:06:57.789 we're going with creating updating the preservation plan so 02:06:57.789 --> 02:06:59.920 i'll make one comment the the uh 02:07:01.600 --> 02:07:04.329 lacoda just mentioned that they wanted to look at our 02:07:04.329 --> 02:07:08.000 design guidelines and we don't really have 02:07:09.359 --> 02:07:12.600 so i was like well that's interesting we've got a little 02:07:12.600 --> 02:07:14.960 segment see little pieces little snippets 02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:17.899 so they're going to look at those snippets yeah yeah it's 02:07:17.899 --> 02:07:20.000 not fleshed out enough to be 02:07:20.000 --> 02:07:22.520 much use to them and so that's why i've started asking more 02:07:22.520 --> 02:07:23.760 questions about what 02:07:24.479 --> 02:07:27.449 what information you're going to gather because uh you know 02:07:27.449 --> 02:07:29.279 i think that if you go back and look at 02:07:29.279 --> 02:07:33.890 our documentation it won't take you two years which is one 02:07:33.890 --> 02:07:36.960 very broad project scope from yes 02:07:36.960 --> 02:07:41.460 need to work it's so huge i want i would like to hope that 02:07:41.460 --> 02:07:43.840 the end result is something that we can 02:07:43.840 --> 02:07:47.199 all hang our hat on as a you know moving forward and not 02:07:47.199 --> 02:07:49.920 that's a real good point service to 02:07:49.920 --> 02:07:52.819 lip service to a requirement right well i think that might 02:07:52.819 --> 02:07:54.640 be the good point having this committee 02:07:54.640 --> 02:07:57.880 steered because um you know if there's parts of what they 02:07:57.880 --> 02:07:59.920 explain that seems superfluous that we 02:07:59.920 --> 02:08:03.699 don't need to maybe we need to focus on guidelines there's 02:08:03.699 --> 02:08:05.439 room possibly to discuss it with them 02:08:05.439 --> 02:08:07.710 you know i was actually when when he said that i'm thinking 02:08:07.710 --> 02:08:09.279 well i thought maybe that's what we're 02:08:09.279 --> 02:08:11.630 going to come away with when you were done is is something 02:08:11.630 --> 02:08:14.159 that's really a document with a lot of 02:08:14.159 --> 02:08:17.760 meat in it that we can then follow it was just so it was so 02:08:17.760 --> 02:08:19.920 broad i kind of i was losing focus what 02:08:19.920 --> 02:08:22.569 was their focus again what you know it was just so broad so 02:08:22.569 --> 02:08:24.159 i was just a little worried that 02:08:34.880 --> 02:08:39.199 no i don't i don't think there was no ron's been about 12 02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:39.600 11 02:08:47.920 --> 02:08:51.159 no i don't think there was any historic preservation plan 02:08:51.159 --> 02:08:53.119 efforts uh there may have been some 02:08:55.279 --> 02:08:59.039 survey there was an update to the survey survey maybe there 02:08:59.039 --> 02:09:01.359 was an update to the survey like right 02:09:01.359 --> 02:09:07.329 when i first got on 2012 the idiots uh boliver survey 2015 02:09:07.329 --> 02:09:10.399 idiots hill yes grant funded so 02:09:10.399 --> 02:09:14.369 you know just i have quite a lot of experience in this area 02:09:14.369 --> 02:09:17.199 of these type of of studies and there's 02:09:17.199 --> 02:09:21.109 the good ones and the ones that literally only take shelf 02:09:21.109 --> 02:09:24.880 space and and have no real value once 02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:29.130 they're done and so of course we we want the former we want 02:09:29.130 --> 02:09:32.000 we want something that that is truly 02:09:32.800 --> 02:09:37.170 a plan and not just giving us back the information that we 02:09:37.170 --> 02:09:39.840 already know i guess that's you know that's 02:09:39.840 --> 02:09:42.500 why i'm worried about it being so broad yeah that the lack 02:09:42.500 --> 02:09:44.479 of focus that's okay i mean i'm glad to 02:09:44.479 --> 02:09:47.079 hear that we're probably going to be on it and we can give 02:09:47.079 --> 02:09:48.880 our input and we can say you know here's 02:09:48.880 --> 02:09:53.500 the areas we need to focus we need some real depth of you 02:09:53.500 --> 02:09:56.239 know uh of documentation on where 02:09:56.239 --> 02:09:58.869 we're going forward as we try to preserve the history of 02:09:58.869 --> 02:10:01.680 this community i think people to 02:10:01.680 --> 02:10:04.460 follow once none of us are on this board i think one of the 02:10:04.460 --> 02:10:06.720 things that they did talk about that 02:10:06.720 --> 02:10:10.930 is of great importance is how visual they like their plans 02:10:10.930 --> 02:10:13.359 to be and that's really big because 02:10:13.359 --> 02:10:16.600 this needs to also be an education tool not just for the 02:10:16.600 --> 02:10:18.800 commission who is generally made up of 02:10:18.800 --> 02:10:24.159 preservationists but for the community at large and that's 02:10:24.159 --> 02:10:26.960 a really big deal that the community 02:10:26.960 --> 02:10:30.199 be able to understand what the preservation plan is right 02:10:30.199 --> 02:10:32.479 because look how important it can be to 02:10:32.479 --> 02:10:35.180 cities i mean if you look at grapevine you look at mckinney 02:10:35.180 --> 02:10:37.119 well and you look at how many people 02:10:37.119 --> 02:10:42.920 are hesitant to move into neighborhoods or to have their 02:10:42.920 --> 02:10:46.159 buildings registered or do any of that 02:10:46.159 --> 02:10:49.289 because they feel like they will have their rights taken 02:10:49.289 --> 02:10:51.760 away from them because they don't understand 02:10:51.760 --> 02:10:54.359 what what the historic pressure they would move into a 02:10:54.359 --> 02:10:56.159 subdivision with enough hoa's a little 02:10:56.159 --> 02:10:58.399 old bitties running around giving them tickets for leaving 02:10:58.399 --> 02:10:59.760 their garbage out too long really 02:11:00.880 --> 02:11:05.529 okay but but that isn't an actual thing that people i often 02:11:05.529 --> 02:11:08.479 hear is that there are homeowners 02:11:08.479 --> 02:11:13.420 who are hesitant to move forward with registering their 02:11:13.420 --> 02:11:17.119 house or getting it landmarked because they 02:11:17.119 --> 02:11:20.890 don't understand what the historic plan is and so i think 02:11:20.890 --> 02:11:23.359 that it's really good that we make it 02:11:24.239 --> 02:11:29.140 so that the general public understands it and can latch on 02:11:29.140 --> 02:11:31.920 to it i'm glad we're doing it 02:11:31.920 --> 02:11:35.550 yes it's gonna be great okay all right if there is nothing 02:11:35.550 --> 02:11:37.840 else or anything else to be added 02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:40.859 i have one for the concluding items okay sorry thank you so 02:11:40.859 --> 02:11:43.039 in concluding items you can you can 02:11:43.039 --> 02:11:46.699 recognize uh people there and congratulate people so some 02:11:46.699 --> 02:11:49.119 time back i submitted an application to the 02:11:50.079 --> 02:11:54.039 texas historic commission for a little guy named john mor 02:11:54.039 --> 02:11:59.920 ris and uh isn't that sweet so we have i 02:11:59.920 --> 02:12:02.250 haven't framed this and i just want i just think it's a 02:12:02.250 --> 02:12:04.000 good night to to give a little heads up 02:12:04.000 --> 02:12:07.239 this is an award of merit from the texas historical 02:12:07.239 --> 02:12:12.239 commission yes thank you for all of your efforts 02:12:12.239 --> 02:12:15.880 in preservation john mr mcallan thank you for your award of 02:12:15.880 --> 02:12:18.079 merit submission for john and donna 02:12:18.079 --> 02:12:21.319 morris of denton texas we're delighted to read about their 02:12:21.319 --> 02:12:23.039 contributions to historic preservation 02:12:23.039 --> 02:12:26.399 in the city the outstanding work by mr and mrs morris was 02:12:26.399 --> 02:12:28.479 received was reviewed by the texas 02:12:28.479 --> 02:12:31.840 historical commission staff and approved by our executive 02:12:31.840 --> 02:12:33.920 director they provide an example of the 02:12:33.920 --> 02:12:37.159 wonderful work that can be accomplished when knowledgeable 02:12:37.159 --> 02:12:38.880 individuals show a never-ending 02:12:38.880 --> 02:12:42.000 dedication to preservation we're proud to present them with 02:12:42.000 --> 02:12:44.159 the texas historic commission's award of 02:12:44.159 --> 02:12:47.029 merit and they'd like to come and present it sometime to 02:12:47.029 --> 02:12:48.720 you but i wanted to give you a heads 02:12:48.720 --> 02:12:54.520 up that it's it's on its way very nice thank you john okay 02:12:54.520 --> 02:12:58.319 that's all i have all right 02:13:00.239 --> 02:13:11.119 move we adjourn let's do it we're done