1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,519 Order at 535 today, Monday October the 8th, 2018 for the 2 00:00:07,519 --> 00:00:08,720 Historic Landmark Commission. 3 00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:13,599 If everybody will please rise for the pledges of allegiance 4 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:13,599 . 5 00:00:15,679 --> 00:00:19,500 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 6 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:22,239 America and to the Republic for which 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:27,579 it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty 8 00:00:27,579 --> 00:00:29,280 and justice for all. 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,119 Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to Texas, one 10 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:39,359 state under God, one and indivisible. 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:46,670 Okay, we have a few items for consideration tonight. The 12 00:00:46,670 --> 00:00:50,560 first thing that we're going to 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,920 consider is an appointment for a member of the Historic 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,399 Landmark Commission for the vice chair 15 00:00:56,399 --> 00:01:00,740 position. With that gone, we need to fill that position. Do 16 00:01:00,740 --> 00:01:03,280 we have any nominations already? 17 00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:09,590 I would like to make a nomination of Helen Bailey for vice 18 00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:11,680 chair if she would be amiable to that. 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,439 You would? I would be amenable to that, yes. Thank you 20 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:22,000 Helen. 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,480 Are there any other nominations that anybody would like to 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,040 share? 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,030 I guess I have Mary Anderson. I had a question. Just what? 24 00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:34,159 Mary Anderson, go ahead please. I'm 25 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:35,819 sorry, I don't know if you can hear me because I can't hear 26 00:01:35,819 --> 00:01:38,400 myself. So I guess I was wondering 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,439 what qualifications were for being on HLC and sort of since 28 00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:46,239 we're a historic commission, I just 29 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:48,730 wondered how everybody fit in. So I'd you know since I 30 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:50,879 there's so many new people here and I'm new, 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,609 how everybody came to be in here. I mean I know where a few 32 00:01:55,609 --> 00:01:57,439 of you live right? A few of you live 33 00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:00,140 in the historic districts but not everybody. I don't know 34 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:01,840 where everybody lives. I was just 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,540 hoping somebody would enlighten me and whether or not that 36 00:02:04,540 --> 00:02:06,719 was related to the requirement for being 37 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:12,849 an officer of that. Certainly we have certain you know 38 00:02:12,849 --> 00:02:14,319 obviously requirements but I think it'd be a 39 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:17,719 good idea to just go around the dais and just you know have 40 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:20,319 a quick introduction who you are and how 41 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,960 you was selected and what your interests are as far as 42 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,280 historic reservation. So excellent. 43 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,919 We can start with John Morris and we'll work our way around 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:31,599 to Roy. 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,509 I was hoping to be last. Oh we can switch it. No no I'm 46 00:02:36,509 --> 00:02:38,800 kidding. I'll start and everybody else 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,620 will be a lot better at the presentation. Thank you so much 48 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:44,719 John. My name is John Morris. I live at 918 West 49 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:51,300 Oak Street. I bought the property back in 2004 and I have 50 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:56,159 lived there. We remodeled the interior, 51 00:02:56,159 --> 00:03:00,620 restored the outside and the property. I have been, I have 52 00:03:00,620 --> 00:03:01,680 a passion for 53 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:11,710 1900s type structures. My wife has been past chairman of 54 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:14,000 this committee in years past. 55 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:17,960 I've attended several of the meetings all the time. You 56 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,840 have been before this board many times. 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,949 Yeah and I take a great interest and pride in my city and 58 00:03:27,949 --> 00:03:30,800 in my county and in my country. 59 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,639 So I look to have the best for all is my main purpose for 60 00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:40,879 this. What is the best for Denton 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,240 in the historical section of Denton. Thank you so much for 62 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,560 sharing John. Mary would you like to 63 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,930 tell us why you're on this board? Yeah Mary Anderson I live 64 00:03:51,930 --> 00:03:54,159 at 924 West Oak and funny we are 65 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:57,729 next-door neighbors and John's an excellent neighbor. We 66 00:03:57,729 --> 00:04:02,159 like this a lot. So we we came to Denton. My 67 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,039 husband's at UNT. I'm at TWU but when we came to Denton we 68 00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:06,639 drove down Oak on the way to UNT 69 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,319 and I went I gotta live here. It had houses with character 70 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:11,840 and they weren't built like 71 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,300 cookie cutters no offense but they didn't look like 72 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:16,240 everything else and I thought I've gotta live 73 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,120 here not to mention I don't like HOAs but you know one 74 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,680 finally came available and we bought it and 75 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,660 we've renovated inside the house quite considerably. I know 76 00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:30,240 what how they used to make lead pipes work. 77 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:33,000 I was appointed by Don Duff yeah I mean how they they put 78 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,480 the lead in the pipes. It's very 79 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,269 interesting. So Don Duff appointed me on the committee. I 80 00:04:38,269 --> 00:04:40,240 have a great interest in making 81 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,639 sure that we preserve the historical character of Denton 82 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:48,240 and not turn it into developer haven 83 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,519 for student apartments i.e. another name for single room 84 00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:53,360 occupancies and I'm not a big I'm 85 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,930 not big on I don't care really what color you paint your 86 00:04:55,930 --> 00:04:57,600 house so much as long as it's just 87 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,959 not really obscene. You know lime green may not work but it 88 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:03,040 is your house you paid for it but I'd 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,519 like to make sure that Denton historical area stays here 90 00:05:05,519 --> 00:05:07,199 because that's the charm if we've been 91 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:11,160 to Grapevine if we've been to McKinney I think you'll see 92 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,199 that the historic character is what 93 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:16,720 drives the city going. Frisco is soulless McKinney's not 94 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,040 and there's a reason for it. I'd like Denton to 95 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,680 be that way also. Thank you so much Mary. Angie would you 96 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,990 like to share with us? I'm Angie Stripling. I live at 1815 97 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:27,279 North Bell Avenue. 98 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,519 We've been there about 10 years like everyone else. We've 99 00:05:30,519 --> 00:05:32,399 had renovations. I've been before this 100 00:05:32,399 --> 00:05:38,370 board several times. Never had an issue. I loved how it was 101 00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:41,519 how everything went smoothly but I have 102 00:05:41,519 --> 00:05:45,420 a passion for historic conservation and also for 103 00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:49,120 preservation and I think that history is very 104 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,019 important. I think in a day and age of technology where 105 00:05:53,019 --> 00:05:56,079 even children and students have their heads 106 00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:59,709 down a lot there is a lot of beauty and architecture that 107 00:05:59,709 --> 00:06:02,240 we have and I really have an interest in 108 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,670 all of that and preserving it. I'm kind of like Mary about 109 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:07,600 when it comes to paints and those kinds 110 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,009 of things but keeping character of what people thought of 111 00:06:11,009 --> 00:06:13,439 in the history and why that character is 112 00:06:13,439 --> 00:06:16,459 there is a passion for me. So when we renovated our own 113 00:06:16,459 --> 00:06:18,639 home I tried to keep the character of the 114 00:06:18,639 --> 00:06:22,480 home alive with the history behind it and so that's why I'm 115 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,079 on the board. Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing. 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:33,439 Since I'm next in line I'll go. I'm Alyssa Stevenson. I'm a 117 00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:36,000 14 year Denton resident as of 118 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,920 this last year and I live downtown in one of the historic 119 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,439 buildings on the square and I love it. 120 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:49,160 I have helped renovate parts of the interior. I have a 121 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,120 desire well I have a passion for history. 122 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,730 It's actually what I teach. I'm a seventh grade Texas 123 00:06:55,730 --> 00:06:57,759 history teacher and before that I actually 124 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:01,290 worked in construction and so that's when I was appointed 125 00:07:01,290 --> 00:07:03,519 to this board and I was appointed by 126 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:10,990 Kevin Roden many years ago. So I love the unique character 127 00:07:10,990 --> 00:07:14,160 of Denton and want to continue to see it 128 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,899 carry on that direction. Helen would you like to share with 129 00:07:20,899 --> 00:07:21,279 us? 130 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,660 I'm Helen Bailey. I am an architect by trade. I am the 131 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:32,240 campus architect for the University of 132 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,509 North Texas and I was appointed to the commission by Dalton 133 00:07:36,509 --> 00:07:38,720 Gregory two years ago now. 134 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,360 He primarily came to me because he knew I was an architect 135 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,920 and the board actually is there's two 136 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,269 positions that are named on the board that should be 137 00:07:51,269 --> 00:07:54,560 represented. One is architect the other is 138 00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:00,790 lawyer. So I filled a need there. I have a passion for 139 00:08:00,790 --> 00:08:05,040 historic preservation. I always have my whole 140 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,240 career and I apply that on a daily basis with my work at 141 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,079 the University of North Texas which 142 00:08:12,079 --> 00:08:17,269 you know also has a lot of historic structures within it 143 00:08:17,269 --> 00:08:20,319 and preserving the history of 144 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,949 the University of North Texas and Denton as well is kind of 145 00:08:27,949 --> 00:08:34,240 a life's work for me and so that's 146 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,759 basically why I'm here. No I don't live in an historic home 147 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:38,080 . No I don't live in any of the 148 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:44,059 historic districts but it won't be many years before my 149 00:08:44,059 --> 00:08:48,000 house is actually you know qualified. 150 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,279 So I think it's about 30 years old. I live in Southridge 151 00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:54,559 but anyway that is why I'm here. I've 152 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:00,389 lived in Denton since 2001. Excellent. I'm Kenneth William 153 00:09:00,389 --> 00:09:03,360 son. I was appointed to the board 154 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,179 two three years ago. Greg Johnson appointed me. I want to 155 00:09:08,179 --> 00:09:10,320 get involved in the city of Denton. 156 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:15,190 It's my home and I want it to be part of it and I didn't 157 00:09:15,190 --> 00:09:17,600 just come up and say I want to be part 158 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,379 of the historical zoning commission. There was a need for 159 00:09:21,379 --> 00:09:24,000 some construction like minded people on 160 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,769 the board and they asked me and I've always loved history. 161 00:09:28,769 --> 00:09:31,600 I love the history of buildings. I love 162 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,470 watching the history of construction evolve and I think my 163 00:09:35,470 --> 00:09:37,919 biggest thing is I do want to keep 164 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:43,720 Denton true and keep the intent of the structures where 165 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,879 they're at but also make sure that 166 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,309 make sure that we're not doing something that is out of 167 00:09:54,309 --> 00:09:57,200 line or is costing more or doing something 168 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,940 that's not feasible as well. So I think that's my biggest 169 00:10:01,940 --> 00:10:04,559 thing and why I'm here. Thank you so 170 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,759 much Kenneth. Roy. Roy Anderson. I'm a CPA. I've had a 171 00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:13,279 practice with several accountants and then 172 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:18,250 for about 33 years. We have the building right across the 173 00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:21,200 street 222 East McKinney and we've 174 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,899 owned it for quite some time. I went to grade school at the 175 00:10:23,899 --> 00:10:25,519 old Robert E. Lee right off the 176 00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:30,519 square. It's now behind the Methodist Church in the 60s and 177 00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:32,799 went to North Texas University of North 178 00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:35,559 Texas. My wife's granddad was a founding dean of the 179 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,919 College of Business. He has a building name. 180 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:42,490 My dad taught there for years. I was appointed a couple 181 00:10:42,490 --> 00:10:45,440 years ago by John Ryan I believe. 182 00:10:49,039 --> 00:10:51,649 My interest I'm fascinated by history. I read a lot study 183 00:10:51,649 --> 00:10:53,039 and I read old 184 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:58,629 historical cars and I you know my whole thing about Denton 185 00:10:58,629 --> 00:11:00,960 is growing so much that we have to 186 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,639 try and find a way to say what Denton has been and it isn't 187 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:07,039 the Denton of the 60s. It's actually 188 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:12,019 much better now and with the historic things and the focus 189 00:11:12,019 --> 00:11:15,519 and it's a unique place to live and 190 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:19,279 of my 50 some odd years I've probably been here 50 of those 191 00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:21,120 . I don't know a long time. Okay. 192 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:26,799 Thank you. Thank you so much Roy. I appreciate it. Okay so 193 00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:32,480 Mary you did ask the question what were 194 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,159 the requirements for vice chair is that correct? Or any 195 00:11:36,159 --> 00:11:38,320 just any you know of all of them it was 196 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,139 just one of those. Can I ask one I was just going to ask is 197 00:11:41,139 --> 00:11:42,960 Jerry really a member of the committee? 198 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,639 I are you because they said something about a lawyer that's 199 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:46,799 why I just wanted to know. 200 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,240 I believe Miss Clegg is the lawyer. She's the law 201 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,240 representative. But no I'm just a staff liaison 202 00:11:56,799 --> 00:12:00,039 you know to the extent that I give legal support and I 203 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:02,879 guess as long as I'm talking in here I have 204 00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:07,340 the the section pulled up that defines the membership of 205 00:12:07,340 --> 00:12:10,320 the historic landmark commission. It's 206 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,059 a nine-member board appointed by the city council. It has 207 00:12:14,059 --> 00:12:16,559 to have at least one representative from 208 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,799 each of the following organizations or professions. The 209 00:12:19,799 --> 00:12:22,240 county historical commission, county bar 210 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,269 association, certified public accountant, registered 211 00:12:26,269 --> 00:12:29,200 architect, and an owner of real property in the 212 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,490 city. And so you could have other citizens in there as well 213 00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:37,120 and then it provides for some ex 214 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,340 officio members that don't vote which I think are basically 215 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:46,159 the staff members. But at any rate I 216 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,360 hopefully that will be of help you know I guess in my role 217 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,440 working with sort of the parliamentary 218 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,649 issues we do have a a motion that's on the floor but has 219 00:12:57,649 --> 00:13:00,799 not yet been seconded or voted upon. 220 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,870 So there is a call for nominations and and just so that we 221 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:09,600 could know where we are and stay on track 222 00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:17,039 that's where we are. John. In that effort I would 223 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,039 second the nomination for the vice chair and ask that the 224 00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:28,159 list of potentials be closed. Okay 225 00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:35,500 you can do that. So John seconded the motion for Helen 226 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:40,559 Bailey as vice chair. All those in favor say 227 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:46,370 aye. Aye. All those opposed say nay. Excellent. So the 228 00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:51,840 motion is approved. None deny. Let's go ahead. 229 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,210 So if we're on the next item. So you got seven just in 230 00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:58,799 terms of filling this in looks like you have 231 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:07,070 seven ayes no nays and at least one that's absent. Two. 232 00:14:07,070 --> 00:14:07,919 Okay. 233 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,789 Okay all right so our next item for consideration is 234 00:14:17,789 --> 00:14:20,399 actually considering approval for the September 235 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:25,720 10th meeting minutes. However it is my understanding that 236 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,200 we actually have to have five members present 237 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,559 who were there and we do not have that tonight so I'm going 238 00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:36,000 to move that we postpone those 239 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,559 for the next meeting. That's interesting. Second that. 240 00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:44,960 Thank you so much Roy for your second. 241 00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:53,809 Is there any question about that? All in favor please say 242 00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:55,840 aye. Aye. 243 00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:04,000 Great all in favor seven none. No all those opposed say nay 244 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:04,000 . 245 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:13,470 Great none denied. Our next item for consideration is item 246 00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:16,720 c to receive a report hold a discussion 247 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,049 and give staff direction regarding an amendment to a 248 00:15:19,049 --> 00:15:21,039 certificate of appropriateness to follow 249 00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:23,740 for the continuance of an existing neural around to the 250 00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:26,240 front side of the building located at 251 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,440 122 North Locust also known as Andes. Thank you so much 252 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,679 Roman. Thank you thank you all and after 253 00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:36,379 y'all going around that table I just want to say I'm really 254 00:15:36,379 --> 00:15:38,399 honored and humbled to be with such great 255 00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:42,740 people. So the uh this item oh and I also want to say with 256 00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:46,000 respect to the landmark we're working on 257 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,570 the packets a new packet for everybody give them an update 258 00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:51,919 on what the rules are and all that. 259 00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:54,720 We got hung up on if you've ever looked at our list of 260 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,720 historic landmarks it's really out of 261 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,389 order and there's some blanks in there we're trying to 262 00:15:58,389 --> 00:16:00,000 figure that out and get it nice and clean 263 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,029 is where we are today on that. So this uh you saw this 264 00:16:04,029 --> 00:16:08,000 permit back in November of 2017 265 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,559 the applicant Eric Pulido a six-year term uh six six year 266 00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:16,559 term remember two or three terms of two 267 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:19,379 I think he served on here and he asked for that and y'all 268 00:16:19,379 --> 00:16:21,360 approved it and and it's been up there 269 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,860 for a while um so it also with that permit came some some 270 00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:28,720 rehabilitation work here restoration 271 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,080 work on these door panels here uh changing that steel panel 272 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,320 out and some other things and they're 273 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,129 going to start on that today but probably Wednesday now and 274 00:16:37,129 --> 00:16:38,399 of course the weather is going 275 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:41,759 to need to cooperate so that's forthcoming. A little bit of 276 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:43,679 background this came up there was 277 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:46,919 a big discussion in the office uh if we had had our 278 00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:48,960 ordinance revisions through already 279 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,299 that are waiting to get through the Denton development code 280 00:16:52,299 --> 00:16:54,799 review process um quite frankly 281 00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:57,740 this might have been approved by me this this amendment I 282 00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:59,919 just letting you know that but it's 283 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:02,129 still required to be approved by our department and so we 284 00:17:02,129 --> 00:17:03,759 discussed it in the department and we're 285 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,279 bringing it to you to see it again before we allow these 286 00:17:06,279 --> 00:17:08,079 changes since you saw the application 287 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:13,049 originally that raised the question of why is Andes which 288 00:17:13,049 --> 00:17:16,880 is uh right here a historic landmark 289 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,819 well I'll show you very quickly why that's the block in 18 290 00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:23,599 85 and here's the headline of the 291 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,500 Topeka Kansas newspaper or an article in the paper about a 292 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,759 fire on July 16th in 1890 and you see 293 00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:35,269 there that it says that the uh the wind was favorable 294 00:17:35,269 --> 00:17:38,160 towards the fire it was it was but a few minutes 295 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,519 till it had developed into a raging conflagration and every 296 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:43,759 building on the east side of the square 297 00:17:43,759 --> 00:17:47,339 numbering some six or seven were destroyed and the cause of 298 00:17:47,339 --> 00:17:49,279 the fire is unknown and there's the 299 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:53,660 damage well the Andes was the only masonry building on the 300 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:57,359 block at the time and so it survived uh it 301 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,940 also and it even got picked up in the Atlantic Atlantic 302 00:17:59,940 --> 00:18:01,839 Constitution which I think they took 303 00:18:01,839 --> 00:18:04,119 the story from New Orleans because that's right out of 304 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,480 their page so it was big news with big fire 305 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,619 and so then when they came back in 1891 to do the sandborns 306 00:18:09,619 --> 00:18:11,759 you see the block is completely 307 00:18:11,759 --> 00:18:14,390 cleared they just they there was such a clear spot on the 308 00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:16,720 map they just dropped the key to the map 309 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,450 into that space there and um so that's why the building 310 00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:23,599 matters and then um later on there was 311 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:26,220 you know renovation work you've seen these pictures just 312 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:28,000 quick refresher um what's neat about the 313 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,349 building to me one of these things it's one of the only 314 00:18:30,349 --> 00:18:32,160 buildings on the on the square with a 315 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,869 complete set of iron columns I think the scripture building 316 00:18:34,869 --> 00:18:36,559 is maybe the only other one and then 317 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:39,970 there's one or two columns scattered around um the square 318 00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:42,400 and there's another picture when it was a 319 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,759 movie theater there on the right so it's missing the tabl 320 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:50,240 ature here and then these um these little 321 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,130 coffers are in here are not presently they must have been 322 00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,799 filled in what these little curves this 323 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,440 will inlet inset around the windows is still there this is 324 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,039 the building in I think the 70s it was a 325 00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:06,220 law firm so then you see those coffers already filled in at 326 00:19:06,220 --> 00:19:08,160 the top and then tablature is gone 327 00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:11,910 and then just a little note about painted brick you know if 328 00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:14,480 we had stopped in again this is the 329 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,680 70s the back building was unpainted at the time so this is 330 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,880 on east oak here and then that back 331 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,779 street and also the roof the windows and the roof had you 332 00:19:25,779 --> 00:19:31,599 got a gabled roof there so this is before 333 00:19:31,599 --> 00:19:35,019 the applicant began to clean it up it also had a kind of a 334 00:19:35,019 --> 00:19:37,359 sign tacked on up there that he removed 335 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,769 that and he painted that whole storefront as part of that 336 00:19:40,769 --> 00:19:43,200 first permit and now what happened is 337 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,740 the applicant as he'll tell you he had a big machine rented 338 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:48,559 with no with no one asking they've 339 00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:51,920 been repainting all of the windows on the barley and board 340 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,880 the texas bank building diagonally across 341 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,599 the street they rented an expensive equipment to do that 342 00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:02,880 work and eric asked me about painting the 343 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,549 front of the building and we told we won't make it to the 344 00:20:05,549 --> 00:20:07,440 landmark committee until the eighth 345 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,940 first we discussed whether we could get it approved and the 346 00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:11,920 staff wanted to have it come before y'all 347 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,279 and so we did um we're bringing it here now but in the 348 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:17,519 meantime he was worried about having to 349 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,549 re-rent that machine and he's and he had this work done so 350 00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:22,480 the image you see on the right is the 351 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,150 building today okay but uh you know then he's been 352 00:20:25,150 --> 00:20:27,920 completely upfront about the process and so he'll 353 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,680 talk to you more he's going to tell you what's going on in 354 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,319 fact i've got him up next as a 355 00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:35,559 presentation from from eric palito unless you have any 356 00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:36,160 questions of me 357 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:42,430 i have no questions does anybody else have questions for 358 00:20:42,430 --> 00:20:45,599 roman so just so i'm clear 359 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,279 the pictures i'm sorry oh no i just need to make sure i 360 00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,359 need thank you kenneth uh the picture in 361 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,720 the middle or the picture on the right is as it is today 362 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,279 the one on the right this is today this is 363 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:01,170 today i was done when they worked on it just this weekend 364 00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:03,920 this weekend before this is right before 365 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,359 that and this is before that mural and any uh paint work so 366 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,720 in other words it looked like this 367 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,960 on both sides kind of a dirty old you know down that side 368 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,759 and so they did that mural and also 369 00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:19,720 repainted all that work and then that's where we are today 370 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,559 angie yes hey roman so you said that 371 00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:26,529 if you had you would have approved it or you could have 372 00:21:26,529 --> 00:21:28,880 approved it if we already had something in 373 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,329 place so the historic preservation ordinances that we met 374 00:21:32,329 --> 00:21:34,559 in your neighborhood with and we talked 375 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:37,799 about all around the city in there we uh we're adjusting 376 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:39,920 sort of administrative approvals in 377 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,650 there we talk about paint uh and some things in there so i 378 00:21:43,650 --> 00:21:45,920 believe if if you were looking at 379 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,450 painting on a for a certificate of appropriateness it could 380 00:21:49,450 --> 00:21:52,240 be approved by the preservation officer i 381 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,849 believe that's why it's word under the uh what's forth 382 00:21:55,849 --> 00:21:58,880 coming on the so my question on that is paint 383 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,369 versus a mural that's a good question is there a difference 384 00:22:02,369 --> 00:22:05,599 differentiator between the two um 385 00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,359 reading in that because i would like to see that as well we 386 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,119 we'll have an opportunity and a big 387 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,730 opportunity we'll have another commute round of community 388 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:15,599 meetings before the dentin development 389 00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:19,079 code is passed it will it will and it'll go before planning 390 00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:21,440 and zoning it and it'll come here and city 391 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,640 council again so we can adjust that in my mind for me it's 392 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,839 still paint for me i know i may not 393 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:30,230 you all may not agree with me but as a president in my 394 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:32,319 world i've seen too many buildings that are 395 00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:34,890 decaying because they have no paint and for me it's no 396 00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:36,640 paint or paint once we get to paint 397 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:41,410 i don't personally feel that's significant but believe me 398 00:22:41,410 --> 00:22:43,680 we're counting on y'all to make a 399 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,609 decision that you feel appropriate for this amendment i'd 400 00:22:47,609 --> 00:22:49,680 like further discussion on that 401 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,170 one that comes up oh sure okay anybody else have questions 402 00:22:55,170 --> 00:22:56,319 for roman 403 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,890 okay well i kind of have a question and it's still a 404 00:23:00,890 --> 00:23:04,640 procedural question to tag on to angie 405 00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:09,640 what authority do we have on the square since the ordinance 406 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,440 hasn't this i this building is a 407 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,210 designated local landmark so unlike the square being a 408 00:23:16,210 --> 00:23:18,079 national registered district that 409 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,509 it's not wholly protected loophole and this building and a 410 00:23:23,509 --> 00:23:25,440 few others a piece of another 411 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,980 building near on the scripture the scripture but about four 412 00:23:29,980 --> 00:23:31,359 right okay thanks for the 413 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,359 that's why you're seeing it thanks for the clarification 414 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:34,319 building 415 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,200 any other questions for roman before eric comes up 416 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:46,019 okay 417 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,799 eric if you'd like to join us come on over 418 00:23:57,759 --> 00:23:59,190 you know the drill yes greetings my name is eric palito uh 419 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:03,759 1209 piping rock dead in texas 420 00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:07,960 um i appreciate you guys having me and i don't want to be 421 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,759 superfluous a lot of this 422 00:24:09,759 --> 00:24:09,759 uh is a uh slideshow that was seen when we originally did 423 00:24:09,759 --> 00:24:17,759 the work um but i'll just go over 424 00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:20,819 it just to catch you guys up and then uh go through some of 425 00:24:20,819 --> 00:24:22,559 the things that roman was 426 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,930 speaking of and obviously helping myself for any questions 427 00:24:25,930 --> 00:24:27,359 that you guys might have 428 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:39,950 so the building was built in 1877 um was built by bf pascal 429 00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:41,359 um i'm not sure if you're aware but 430 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,019 the upstairs floor is a cocktail bar called pascal bar 431 00:24:45,019 --> 00:24:47,519 which uh me and my bandmate started 432 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:50,880 about seven years ago and we named it after him because no 433 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,559 matter what the building was 434 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:55,140 through time it was always referred to as the pascal 435 00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:56,960 building and it lost that somewhere 436 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,450 along the way so we just wanted to pay homage uh to that um 437 00:25:00,450 --> 00:25:02,240 like roman said not only just 438 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,710 my time serving on this committee i appreciate uh history 439 00:25:05,710 --> 00:25:08,000 and just feel like it gives an identity 440 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,890 to a place when you're able to to tell a story so we 441 00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:14,000 actually have um a picture of the all the 442 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,200 folks that uh helped build some of the buildings on the 443 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,359 square as well as a cool piece out of um 444 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:26,319 business gazette uh uh with an ad for uh the rs ross grocer 445 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,920 when you walk into pascal um we also 446 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,279 have a big uh picture of the square back in the late 1800s 447 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,130 that up there in the right is that uh ad that i was 448 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:42,799 referring to 449 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:49,099 obviously some of these pictures you saw in roman's uh 450 00:25:49,099 --> 00:25:54,079 piece but i just love looking back at at the 451 00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:56,559 different forms that the building has taken on over time 452 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,029 we actually considered uh recalling it plaza the plaza as 453 00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:10,480 well um but we didn't have not yet 454 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:17,119 um as roman said those columns it was really neat to uh 455 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,640 to see these pictures and uh obviously see that they're 456 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,720 still there and a part of the first 457 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,269 coa was to uh to renovate uh that front like roman said wed 458 00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:30,240 nesday the actual wood facade and doors 459 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,529 will be done but uh the the columns were changed from a a 460 00:26:34,529 --> 00:26:37,759 green that we didn't really love to to 461 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,660 uh to black um and we also did change out the awning to to 462 00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:43,839 put a new one on there as well 463 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:54,640 um obviously there's a great marriage of of history and art 464 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,160 uh through time especially uh 465 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,259 how that comes to fruition and buildings um originally uh 466 00:27:00,259 --> 00:27:02,640 with the the new deal back in 34 467 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,990 they they put in a portion um of the the uh the budget to 468 00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:12,480 uh include uh art um and i thought that 469 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,990 was a really neat uh aspect to have obviously we have art 470 00:27:14,990 --> 00:27:16,799 and arts program that started several 471 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:19,259 years back and i know that's been a big piece of our 472 00:27:19,259 --> 00:27:22,000 development especially in downtown um 473 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,119 i believe that it really does promote interaction and civic 474 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,319 participation um we've had a lot of 475 00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:31,349 folks use it as a background to a photo um which has been 476 00:27:31,349 --> 00:27:33,200 really neat i mean i love just seeing 477 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,700 people now look at it as something that they want to be a 478 00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:40,720 part of um it wasn't the prettiest side 479 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,589 of the building before and when we did those renovations 480 00:27:43,589 --> 00:27:45,200 there were a lot of cracks also 481 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,359 that the that we had to to patch up and then obviously put 482 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,119 the paint over it um we have events 483 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,880 all the time that include um all ages and it's really neat 484 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,839 to to see the kids um come out and be 485 00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:03,200 a part of you know the offerings of the of the building 486 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,000 obviously it's uh mainly known as a bar 487 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,869 or venue but we do daytime brunches and such all the time 488 00:28:08,869 --> 00:28:10,880 we have a a christmas show with kids that 489 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,410 we're doing in a couple months and also as a town that 490 00:28:14,410 --> 00:28:17,200 really prides itself in its art program you 491 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,400 know artists can see uh this being utilized um in a 492 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,720 downtown area we're not the only building that 493 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,039 has done something like this so it's really cool to see um 494 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:31,440 i don't have to tell you this but you 495 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,299 know when you're downtown you know where you are and i just 496 00:28:35,299 --> 00:28:38,000 love that um further with distinctions 497 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,680 um that are in line can really create identity to a place 498 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,240 and i i love that that we've continued 499 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,849 to do that uh downtown with new businesses and just events 500 00:28:48,849 --> 00:28:51,839 and such um also the sustainability 501 00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:58,509 and preservation um you know i kind of think that it really 502 00:28:58,509 --> 00:29:01,440 sends a message you know when you 503 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,210 put value in the building that you're a part of um it says 504 00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:07,279 something but it also i think 505 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,309 keeps people aware that this is something that we want to 506 00:29:10,309 --> 00:29:12,160 keep clean we want to keep it in line we 507 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,880 want to preserve it and sustain it for generations to come 508 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,720 this is just a quick example of some murals 509 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,720 around the world of large format type murals um i can't 510 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,519 remember exactly where i got all these i 511 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:32,529 think one was in new york another in spain uh but uh but 512 00:29:32,529 --> 00:29:36,480 yeah all different styles and such uh but 513 00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:42,839 i'm sure the uh the same outcome is is achieved this at the 514 00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:47,279 time were a couple uh murals that had 515 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,519 been done in town that were specifically with a historic 516 00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:53,039 building or a historic site um the one 517 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:57,259 to the left is uh the paterson apatown art center um and 518 00:29:57,259 --> 00:30:00,000 that was two different times that they did 519 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,460 the mural i served when they did one of them and then of 520 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:05,920 course um across the street at the fire 521 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:12,009 department um they had uh had that uh monolithic um feature 522 00:30:12,009 --> 00:30:14,799 um honoring uh 9/11 523 00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:22,359 again this this most of this work has been done or is comm 524 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:23,680 encing now but was approved 525 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,599 unanimously at the time um with the mural um and obviously 526 00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:28,960 the doors and the veneer 527 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:33,599 and the awning um and some painting window trims 528 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,920 uh 529 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,609 and obviously that was the picture uh that we showed at the 530 00:30:44,609 --> 00:30:46,880 time of the mock-up 531 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,359 i think he did a pretty good job keeping it in line with 532 00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:51,519 what the mock-up was uh the artist's 533 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:54,970 name he's not here he was here last time um and i i asked 534 00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:57,359 him if he wanted to come back and 535 00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:01,380 he was pretty nervous the first time so he just asked if i 536 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:03,440 could handle it um but his name's dan 537 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,799 black you might have met him he's he's definitely been uh 538 00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:09,440 around a bunch more regularly as uh 539 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,049 folks have seen his work and um have have used it for their 540 00:31:13,049 --> 00:31:15,680 for their building or or um whatever 541 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,039 piece that they're looking to to bring some life to and he 542 00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,319 does that quite well um i know he's done 543 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,720 some pieces at the mall uh most recently so this is 544 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,799 actually a mock-up and then the next one i'll 545 00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:36,039 show you uh one that you actually saw with with uh romans 546 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:38,240 and the reason why with this is obviously 547 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:43,019 um on this painting it wraps around and you don't really 548 00:31:43,019 --> 00:31:45,599 see it from the ground level uh that well 549 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,039 the the one inset to the right is kind of uh what what you 550 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:54,240 can see um when you're down on the ground 551 00:31:55,039 --> 00:32:00,349 but the artist really wanted to and i and i appreciated it 552 00:32:00,349 --> 00:32:03,359 to even if you don't see it um 553 00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:07,789 to keep the the canvas uh continuing or the art piece 554 00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:10,000 continuing and if you did see it whether 555 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,710 you're flying over if you're in the top of the courthouse 556 00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:15,680 you might find um a reveal that's 557 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,339 that's really neat uh to see only from certain uh heights 558 00:32:20,339 --> 00:32:22,960 in the downtown area um 559 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:28,279 i'm not sure if if i had mentioned um i'm sure i did 560 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:30,400 originally but the mural is called band on 561 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,029 the run uh you saw the two uh folks on the motorcycle it's 562 00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:37,759 uh it's kind of in a 50s western 563 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:42,700 um styling uh with the colors that were used if you go to 564 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:45,839 the back um you see a police officer 565 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:49,400 with binoculars looking at the couple riding off in the 566 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,240 desert and they're now working their way to 567 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,519 their getaway plane which is located on the south side uh 568 00:32:56,519 --> 00:33:00,079 as roman showed as well this is the the uh 569 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:06,609 mural uh as it sits today um a little bit of backstory and 570 00:33:06,609 --> 00:33:10,079 i know roman uh alluded to this um 571 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:15,440 originally when we thought about doing this between myself 572 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,480 and the artist uh and the building owner 573 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,349 um we of course knew that we needed to contact roman and 574 00:33:22,349 --> 00:33:24,319 figure out uh if that could be 575 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:28,819 administratively proven being i guess an optimist that i am 576 00:33:28,819 --> 00:33:31,119 i i thought that would be the case but 577 00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:35,990 we didn't do any work until i had spoken with him um we had 578 00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:38,880 rented this lift for barley and board 579 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,779 because we had done the work on the texas building and i 580 00:33:41,779 --> 00:33:44,240 talked to the contractor that did that work 581 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,470 and just asked on pricing and if when he planned on 582 00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:51,039 finishing that job and i thought i could kill 583 00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:53,559 two birds with one stone because he finished that project 584 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,599 and was going to have a few more days 585 00:33:55,599 --> 00:34:00,339 until it was scheduled to be picked up lift um so we kind 586 00:34:00,339 --> 00:34:03,200 of put it tentatively on the calendar 587 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,990 and said okay this is when we would do it and let me go 588 00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:09,599 talk to roman also got the artist who does 589 00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:13,389 travel himself and scheduled him down and got it penciled 590 00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:16,239 in and said okay we've got everything set 591 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,199 you know i didn't want to spend the extra money you know i 592 00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,760 think around 1500 obviously they have 593 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,989 to deliver that that piece and it also takes up a big chunk 594 00:34:25,989 --> 00:34:28,480 of the square and as you guys probably 595 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,489 have seen with construction such i kind of wanted to be 596 00:34:31,489 --> 00:34:33,599 able to do the work and get it out of there 597 00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:37,829 as soon as possible so roman got back with me and said okay 598 00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:40,719 we probably need to sit down and talk 599 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,340 i'm not sure if this is going to be able to be 600 00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:44,960 administratively proven let's go talk to staff 601 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,650 we did and i said i totally understand i do not mean any 602 00:34:49,650 --> 00:34:53,679 disrespect by commencing work or planning 603 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:59,179 to do this work without it and then obviously commencing it 604 00:34:59,179 --> 00:35:02,400 um if this isn't a proven if i've 605 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,679 exhausted all options of course i would paint back over it 606 00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:07,280 and go back to the original 607 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,659 that was a proven if that's what we needed to do it was 608 00:35:11,659 --> 00:35:15,519 kind of a risk i understand you know that 609 00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:19,400 but i didn't want it to be any sign of disrespect to the 610 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,400 board or staff for that matter so 611 00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:29,750 we did paint the front originally with the original coa it 612 00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:31,840 was just obviously a blank 613 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,940 canvas if you will and between the artists and myself we 614 00:35:35,940 --> 00:35:37,360 kind of felt like it looked that way it 615 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,960 just looked like it wasn't complete obviously anybody could 616 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,480 think differently and i respect 617 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,340 that and appreciate that it's just something that we 618 00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:49,679 continue to look at and look at and we thought 619 00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:53,199 you know it would really be neat to to continue that on so 620 00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:55,599 again i don't want to beat a dead horse 621 00:35:55,599 --> 00:36:00,260 but that that is why we did it and the heart of it and why 622 00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:02,960 we're coming before you today 623 00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:08,469 thank you so much eric does anybody have questions for eric 624 00:36:08,469 --> 00:36:11,199 angie i do is the mural on the south side 625 00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:15,400 today as well for the airplane wise yes that's already done 626 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,199 yes that part of it even though he 627 00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:21,239 did use the lift because there is roof access it was able 628 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,000 to still do some without the lift and i 629 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,239 don't know if the artist is like completely done with any 630 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,920 like paneling on the back side i honestly 631 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,070 i can't see it over there from the street so i would have 632 00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:34,960 to get up there myself so 633 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,199 um i know he's done with the lift but i he might have a 634 00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:40,480 little bit of like work on that plane to 635 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,139 just you know and was that approved part of the original 636 00:36:44,139 --> 00:36:47,360 project no sorry both the south side 637 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,349 and the west side were not a part of the original so 638 00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:55,119 neither the front on facing the square or the 639 00:36:55,119 --> 00:37:00,070 side so they was south is facing so the east side and the 640 00:37:00,070 --> 00:37:03,199 north side the main mural portion 641 00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:07,400 was a part of the original coa so i'm coming back now with 642 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,719 this front facade and this side facade 643 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,500 yes okay that plane that you saw let me go back so it's the 644 00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:16,320 front and the side that's what i'm 645 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,559 and that's a clarification sorry okay so you're asking for 646 00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:21,920 approval for this and the front correct 647 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,719 what you see in this painting or this yet rendering so the 648 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,079 back isn't done i thought you 649 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,219 haven't seen it i never go down that street the back wasn't 650 00:37:33,219 --> 00:37:34,800 it was part of the original 651 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,070 approved in the original um and we decided to continue it 652 00:37:40,070 --> 00:37:42,800 around to wrap it around and 653 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,480 and this is that portion that i'm coming before you today 654 00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:54,099 roy i have a question so at this point you're here for a co 655 00:37:54,099 --> 00:37:56,960 a but 95 percent of what you're asking 656 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,980 permission to do is already done right that is correct i'm 657 00:37:59,980 --> 00:38:02,159 not sure the exact percentage but this 658 00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:05,400 is just a continuation in addition to what was already 659 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,639 proven okay thank you 660 00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:14,840 i guess what i'm saying is you're asking now for permission 661 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,480 that's kind of like we're going to 662 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,769 confession here so we're gonna ask for we're asking for 663 00:38:18,769 --> 00:38:20,159 forgiveness because we've done 664 00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:24,519 no he he had already put in the the coa for it for the 665 00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:28,239 front mural for painting now but for mural i 666 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,090 don't think i think there that's what i think you know for 667 00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:33,039 yes he had already submitted the coa 668 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,250 and um we didn't get it on to the agenda in time and they 669 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:40,800 had already scheduled the lift so 670 00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:44,920 eric real i mean eric has always come before the board in a 671 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,440 very timely manner i really feel like 672 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,809 this is just a timing issue where the lift was available he 673 00:38:50,809 --> 00:38:52,719 thought that it would have gone 674 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,519 before the board before then this is not yeah this is not 675 00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:59,440 like a slap on the hand no it kind of that's 676 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,780 not quite what i heard your story say i'm sorry but i think 677 00:39:01,780 --> 00:39:03,440 i was listening when he said that you 678 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,860 came up with this with the artist it did go in motion 679 00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:09,840 quickly and this and this is a retroactive 680 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,610 aspect i appreciate everything you've done for andy's bar i 681 00:39:12,610 --> 00:39:13,840 'm just saying that this board has 682 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,079 gotten out of hand and you know forgiveness is always what 683 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:19,119 we get after people do what they want 684 00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:21,369 anyway this is nothing personal i mean i think you've done 685 00:39:21,369 --> 00:39:23,039 a beautiful job on the side and things 686 00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:26,070 it's it's the un the unpermitted stuff that i think we 687 00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:28,559 ought to handle a little a little better 688 00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:32,159 angie what was the date of the application for the coa 689 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,119 should be in rebecca it's hard to see on the phone 690 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,309 it was in between it was soon after our last meeting so 691 00:39:46,309 --> 00:39:47,519 that's why we 692 00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:49,989 we could have called a special meeting for but i didn't 693 00:39:49,989 --> 00:39:50,800 think that would 694 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:57,119 make a lot of sense let's see um your packets are on there 695 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,210 there while they can go online we got it right here you can 696 00:40:01,210 --> 00:40:02,719 see the date yeah i don't see it 697 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:09,360 was in september at some point here okay so it was probably 698 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:10,800 so it was recently just wasn't 699 00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:13,860 about three i'm guessing i'm gonna pull it up so it didn't 700 00:40:13,860 --> 00:40:15,760 miss a meeting that i guess my question 701 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,349 is what was the date so okay it was after if we had 702 00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:22,480 squeezed if we could have squeezed it in 703 00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:25,949 helen do you have a question while we're looking yes uh so 704 00:40:25,949 --> 00:40:29,280 i think i heard you say eric that um 705 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,940 you know knowing this is retroactive if indeed it was the 706 00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:37,440 um the the final vote from from this board 707 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:42,579 that it was not approved you you can um you can find the 708 00:40:42,579 --> 00:40:45,360 resources to to take it back the way it 709 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,320 was of course i mean that that would be our responsibility 710 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,760 um given the situation uh obviously 711 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,000 we would rerent the the lift and paint it back to the color 712 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,840 that was approved um if we had to 713 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,400 thanks for the clarification thank you mary well my 714 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,239 question is if that's the case anyway 715 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,510 you were saving fifteen hundred dollars to do it at the 716 00:41:06,510 --> 00:41:08,239 same time that's at least what you said 717 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,980 earlier in this testimony that it was fifteen hundred 718 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:12,719 dollars so it's going to cost it would 719 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,510 cost you more than fifteen hundred dollars to change it 720 00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:17,039 just just saying just want to 721 00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:22,159 clarify what i've heard so far yeah it it would obviously 722 00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,920 like i said it was a risk so i would 723 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,900 lose that lose more because of this and the time required 724 00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:32,000 and to have a lift out on the square again 725 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,340 for for a given amount of time so just a quick answer i don 726 00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:40,239 't think i have the the original 727 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,659 application in here but it um i mean i can look on my phone 728 00:41:43,659 --> 00:41:45,920 because i sent you i sent it to you 729 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,409 somehow but it was in between i think we had just had 730 00:41:48,409 --> 00:41:50,400 whatever the previous meeting was so 731 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,260 okay it was either hold a special meeting or or prove it or 732 00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:56,239 bring it here so we brought it 733 00:41:57,679 --> 00:41:59,869 i mean i mean a special meeting i don't think that i mean 734 00:41:59,869 --> 00:42:02,239 what qualifies for a special meeting 735 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,119 i mean my time is also valuable and fifteen hundred dollars 736 00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:07,440 was more valuable than 737 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,500 that for it to call a special meeting for so wait a minute 738 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:10,960 there's something wrong with this 739 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:22,210 john madam chairman um i was here and approved part of the 740 00:42:22,210 --> 00:42:23,440 group that approved 741 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,639 the painting that originally was put onto the building uh 742 00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,480 that was well received by everybody 743 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,349 there and i can not check the minutes but i presume presume 744 00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:38,800 it was a 100 approval i believe it was 745 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:47,280 basically basically as i see it we have here a case of it 746 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,679 probably would have been approved 747 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,269 it brought in time to do it right we have an option we have 748 00:42:55,269 --> 00:42:59,119 a situation here where the equipment 749 00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:03,619 is available the artist is here uh to replace all that 750 00:43:03,619 --> 00:43:08,000 again would be 1500 roughly plus the artist 751 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,610 and the travel and the time and all that so you're talking 752 00:43:11,610 --> 00:43:14,320 so and we're talking here about a few days 753 00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:20,000 that we didn't get here for a time deadline that is there i 754 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,440 think we're quivering over 755 00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:29,320 dots are we at the discussion portion of this meeting now 756 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,639 yeah i mean we don't have a motion 757 00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:37,840 on the floor so but we are still at the asking questions of 758 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,760 kenneth yes why didn't you go in 759 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,190 back in november for all of it was it just after you yeah 760 00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:51,280 it really was after we had had seen it 761 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:57,900 um i wish we would have uh obviously i think it it finishes 762 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:01,440 the the vision and the piece as a true 763 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,199 uh art piece of the whole building and it felt incomplete 764 00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,440 at the time with just the mock-up 765 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,659 um we didn't think that and i i think we were wrong at the 766 00:44:12,659 --> 00:44:13,440 time so 767 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,150 it's really interesting mary i mean i love the mural on the 768 00:44:19,150 --> 00:44:21,440 side i really do i think it's fabulous 769 00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,989 for being on the square i'm not sure i like the rest of it 770 00:44:23,989 --> 00:44:25,920 i mean as far as historical character 771 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,760 and i think that's where my one you're getting you're 772 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,199 looking for forgiveness after having done 773 00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:34,760 something um but two it really changes the character i 774 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,840 think that's what what i'm addressing here is 775 00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:41,369 it's something that the board should have decided what the 776 00:44:41,369 --> 00:44:43,599 character of the square should look like 777 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,719 and how historical is something there i mean that's my 778 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,960 major concern it has no timing is another i 779 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,969 have a pet peeve about the forgiveness i can get past that 780 00:44:53,969 --> 00:44:56,000 but it's the it's the content of what 781 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,619 the square looks like none of the pictures you have showed 782 00:44:58,619 --> 00:45:00,320 me roman up here look anything like 783 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,559 that and so i realize it's a great art piece and i love the 784 00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:05,280 side i see it almost every day 785 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,940 i think it's so cool but that the appropriateness of this 786 00:45:07,940 --> 00:45:10,559 on the square jerry if if i could just 787 00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:13,460 redirect this for a moment and roman i'm going to need your 788 00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:15,199 help on this because i i didn't bring 789 00:45:15,199 --> 00:45:18,559 my code book with me and i've been trying to look it up 790 00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:21,360 online and it's uh my battery is just about 791 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,710 dead but you know i'm hearing you know a lot of opinions 792 00:45:25,710 --> 00:45:29,039 about what looks nice what's cool what 793 00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:33,239 uh how popular it was what was originally voted on you know 794 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,119 and a lot of things that i think miss 795 00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:40,179 anderson brought up an interesting point is that this board 796 00:45:40,179 --> 00:45:43,119 has a specific charge with respect to 797 00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:47,000 certificates of appropriateness it's not you know matters 798 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,599 of taste it's not matters of timing it's 799 00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:52,960 not matters of any of those things it's it's it's a 800 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,519 standard of appropriateness and you know i think 801 00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:02,429 that maybe we need to reconsider and just as you maybe you 802 00:46:02,429 --> 00:46:05,679 had up there to reiterate what exactly 803 00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:10,269 is the charge of this board to make this determination you 804 00:46:10,269 --> 00:46:13,440 know rather than a an issue of taste or what 805 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,800 you should have done or shouldn't have done or anything 806 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,679 else what is the standard well i agree 807 00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:27,119 robert roy madam chair i move we approve hlc 18-022 808 00:46:29,519 --> 00:46:32,940 weren't you going to get into what the considerations are i 809 00:46:32,940 --> 00:46:35,760 'm waiting for the discussion because we're now 810 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,760 we're talking to eric in a minute right start the 811 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,159 discussion we haven't closed some definite things 812 00:46:40,159 --> 00:46:44,070 to say but i'm waiting for that roy we haven't actually 813 00:46:44,070 --> 00:46:46,719 closed the this portion of the so what 814 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,679 are we doing all right now we'll draw that um motion thank 815 00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:51,599 you roy okay 816 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,289 okay no no no we're still on the open portion of the middle 817 00:46:58,289 --> 00:47:01,039 okay well i'm sorry jerry asked me 818 00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:03,460 well you know we're asking for a certificate of appropri 819 00:47:03,460 --> 00:47:05,119 ateness it's not an historic district 820 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:08,019 international registered district right which you could 821 00:47:08,019 --> 00:47:10,880 apply the standards to uh however we 822 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,030 don't have a law that requires us to apply the standards 823 00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:15,199 for our national registered district so 824 00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:18,599 often and this can come up with julie glover with the main 825 00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:21,119 street program when she looks at issuing 826 00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:23,750 grants for some of the facade improvements that happen on 827 00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:25,599 the square she goes to this document 828 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,639 and which was in your uh packet last time and it's these 829 00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:31,840 property appearance guidelines adopted in 830 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,519 1997 by the city of den to be used for the approval of 831 00:47:34,519 --> 00:47:36,639 renovations and new construction in the downtown 832 00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:40,840 area uh the so in there um you have the this little 833 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,400 descriptive which i put in that previous 834 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,800 in in 2017 but we had the whole packet in there in 2017 i 835 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,639 can probably pull that up with you but 836 00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:53,530 the key phrasing for me then at the time was that the 837 00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:56,000 renovation of historic advertising painted 838 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,130 directly on building surfaces is encouraged along with the 839 00:47:59,130 --> 00:48:01,119 creation of large-scale murals as a form 840 00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:04,360 of public art and then all wall signs and murals should be 841 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,000 professionally applied or restored that 842 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,260 seemed to be the only on point um part of that property 843 00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:13,440 appearance guidelines adopted for the 844 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,679 city of downtown for the downtown i mean city of denton for 845 00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:18,559 the downtown core area so there's no 846 00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:26,000 overarching historical component of murals as far as what's 847 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,880 approved from a historic standpoint or 848 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,159 from an art standpoint i have never seen any documentation 849 00:48:32,159 --> 00:48:33,840 about you know what murals would 850 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:39,079 be appropriate and norware mary yeah so you said we're part 851 00:48:39,079 --> 00:48:43,440 of the federal the national registry 852 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,860 and so what are i mean since eventually we hope to be even 853 00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:49,039 further what are their guidelines i mean i 854 00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:51,670 i think we should at least listen to their guidelines the 855 00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:53,280 secretary of interior standard 856 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,480 guidelines regarding paint are very open yeah the standards 857 00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,519 would as far as i know don't address 858 00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:02,219 murals so that's it earlier we talked about we talked about 859 00:49:02,219 --> 00:49:03,679 the murals exactly yeah um 860 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,730 the standards about the saving so you know helen i i would 861 00:49:08,730 --> 00:49:11,920 submit to you that paint 862 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:18,670 can change the historic cat uh character of a building and 863 00:49:18,670 --> 00:49:19,920 if there is no 864 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,639 if there is precedence from an historical standpoint then 865 00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:30,880 then the paint issue would be part of that and 866 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,409 i think if you were to take your document you were just 867 00:49:33,409 --> 00:49:35,760 looking at and you move move further down on 868 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,000 it where it talks about if it's denied it has to be denied 869 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,360 for these reasons you would find in there 870 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,250 that it states um you know is it going to detract from the 871 00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:47,679 historical significance that kind of 872 00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:49,670 thing those are the kind of things think we can look at and 873 00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:51,280 it doesn't matter whether it's paint 874 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:57,670 or trim or you know brick or anything it's about preserving 875 00:49:57,670 --> 00:50:00,239 history and and so i don't know that it 876 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,940 matters so much what it says about paint specifically that 877 00:50:03,940 --> 00:50:06,320 would be my comment there right i think and 878 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,579 that there is that in in other places in the ordinance i 879 00:50:08,579 --> 00:50:10,159 think it's usually in the districts 880 00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:12,469 where it says a certificate of a purpose this is in our 881 00:50:12,469 --> 00:50:15,679 ordinance um should be approved if it 882 00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:19,670 negatively or adversely affects right um buildings building 883 00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:21,119 buildings in the area 884 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,880 which is a it's objective it's very subjective i don't know 885 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,159 well that's why we're nine people not 886 00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:34,079 one right any more questions for roman and eric 887 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,000 okay eric thank you so much for your presentation and for 888 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,039 your time tonight i know that it's been a 889 00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:49,880 a busy weekend so all right is there anybody else from the 890 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,320 public who would like to speak on this 891 00:50:53,679 --> 00:50:58,159 item seeing none we're going to go ahead and close that 892 00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:00,239 okay 893 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,150 in order to discuss we must have a motion on the board is 894 00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:05,199 that correct 895 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,599 uh there are boards that do have discussion without putting 896 00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:11,360 a motion on the floor first 897 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,039 okay would y'all like to have a discussion first yes okay 898 00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:17,840 it sounds like there's a lot to work out 899 00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:25,840 helen okay um so i i have to say that 900 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:33,860 if you take into context the square as a whole and all of 901 00:51:33,860 --> 00:51:35,599 the frontage onto the square 902 00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:41,030 you will not find murals on any of the buildings in on that 903 00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:44,480 face you certainly find them on the 904 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,349 side street faces right all around the square and even in 905 00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:52,719 in side streets off the square a couple 906 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:57,650 of blocks right find it it seems appropriate in those 907 00:51:57,650 --> 00:52:01,679 places because they tend to be sort of more 908 00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:01,679 alleyway aesthetic it was the side of the building there 909 00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:06,079 was always this idea maybe that there would 910 00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:10,329 be another building added on to it and it kind of had that 911 00:52:10,329 --> 00:52:13,440 sort of unappreciated aspect to it that 912 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,800 the murals of denton have really brought life to those 913 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,320 areas and made them into 914 00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:24,280 uh almost almost like destinations of their own for sure i 915 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,480 think it's appropriate there 916 00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:30,760 i i have to say it gives me great pause to put it on the 917 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,679 front of one of the buildings that faces 918 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,670 the um courthouse it it just doesn't uh it doesn't seem to 919 00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:41,920 ring true to everything else we've got 920 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,630 going on on that square signage i've we've got plenty of 921 00:52:45,630 --> 00:52:47,840 signs some of which these days are 922 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,079 getting quite colorful and we've talked about those at 923 00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,679 other meetings and and and i think there's that 924 00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:56,550 i think there's some precedence there because of the campus 925 00:52:56,550 --> 00:52:58,000 theater and the other things 926 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,880 that were there you know 50 plus years ago i don't i don't 927 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,400 somebody tell me i'm wrong but i don't 928 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,059 recall any murals being on any buildings and so it gives me 929 00:53:10,059 --> 00:53:12,400 some building fronts building fronts 930 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,059 facades building facades facing the courthouse that's what 931 00:53:16,059 --> 00:53:18,480 i'm talking about specifically i don't 932 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,349 see that from any recollection i have um i think that we 933 00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:26,960 have to tread lightly on our history we've 934 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,329 lost some of our history already on the square um within 935 00:53:31,329 --> 00:53:34,239 this year and um and it happens to be right 936 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,110 down the street from this and and i and i don't think that 937 00:53:38,110 --> 00:53:40,800 we should detract from the history we 938 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:46,590 still have and so it feels to me just the front the rest of 939 00:53:46,590 --> 00:53:50,239 it i don't think is is detracting but 940 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,039 just that very front facing the courthouse um i think we 941 00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:56,559 should tread lightly on it and keep it 942 00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:00,230 as original as possible and by doing so i think having a 943 00:54:00,230 --> 00:54:02,960 sky scene across it detracts from that 944 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:09,159 history and that's my that's me i'm off okay angie um i 945 00:54:09,159 --> 00:54:13,199 agree with you and i also think that the 946 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,300 the front of the buildings that when we talk about 947 00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:20,480 restoring we want to look at restoring back to 948 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,840 original as close as we can get and i do think that is 949 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,239 distracting for the character of the 950 00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:31,139 building as far as falling in line with downtown my second 951 00:54:31,139 --> 00:54:35,440 point with that too is um talk about 952 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,099 getting a coa in september and i want to address that for a 953 00:54:40,099 --> 00:54:42,719 moment because um 954 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,059 i don't want to set a precedence for this board that it's 955 00:54:47,059 --> 00:54:50,559 okay to get a coa waiting for a board 956 00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:53,369 approval and so i'm going to go ahead and do it and i think 957 00:54:53,369 --> 00:54:55,360 that could set a precedence for other 958 00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:00,420 people coming before this board um i had been i've had to 959 00:55:00,420 --> 00:55:03,679 wait myself two to three months because of 960 00:55:03,679 --> 00:55:06,719 not having board meetings i'm not having a quorum and so 961 00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,960 for someone coming before the board 962 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,750 previously and knowing the schedule um i know it wasn't 963 00:55:12,750 --> 00:55:15,280 done in disrespect but i do think that's 964 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,300 something that has to be addressed that doesn't really set 965 00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:20,159 well with me because of knowing the 966 00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:23,800 board and knowing how the board operates and because i've 967 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,840 also had to be before this board 968 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,650 for people that have flat taken advantage of it and i just 969 00:55:28,650 --> 00:55:30,559 hate to see it go down that road again 970 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,519 but to talk about exactly what is before us that it was 971 00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:38,239 done without an approval and that what is 972 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,480 being asked to be done i do not think that it fits in the 973 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,679 historical character of that building 974 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:50,119 okay mary i have to agree uh with ellen and angie i think 975 00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:53,280 that it's great to have murals all around 976 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,639 town i mean if you look at decatur they have these great 977 00:55:55,639 --> 00:55:57,440 murals but they're not on the front of the 978 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,219 building they're on the side of the building there are 979 00:56:00,219 --> 00:56:02,400 these great tiles and level land but they're 980 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,650 on the side of the building they're not on the front the 981 00:56:04,650 --> 00:56:07,039 character of the square matters i love 982 00:56:07,039 --> 00:56:11,449 this picture right here and i don't even mind the side that 983 00:56:11,449 --> 00:56:13,840 you can only see probably from 984 00:56:14,559 --> 00:56:17,920 the hamburger place i can't think of the name lsa thanks l 985 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,920 sa burgers right i don't that doesn't 986 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,949 bother me but this bothers me things you can see straight 987 00:56:22,949 --> 00:56:25,199 away it changes the character i think of 988 00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:28,440 the square and yes i do have a i have a pet peeve of 989 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,280 seeking forgiveness but that's not coloring my 990 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,519 vision of what i see here what i see here doesn't fit the 991 00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:36,719 square the the other picture of it and 992 00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,960 you know if we're here i mean we can't make things original 993 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,800 to the 1800s but we can kind of keep it 994 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,119 in a historic sense you know it's not like i should have to 995 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:49,360 keep my lead pipes in my house 996 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,210 but this is aesthetic it's not you know health wise to do 997 00:56:54,210 --> 00:56:56,480 so and i love the side i see it all 998 00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,460 the time and i think it's great i just don't know that it 999 00:56:59,460 --> 00:57:02,320 fits on the front i might add one more 1000 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,139 comment helen yes you may uh and that is we we might set a 1001 00:57:07,139 --> 00:57:10,079 precedent if we do move forward 1002 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,969 with uh having a mural on the front of this building i 1003 00:57:13,969 --> 00:57:17,760 think if we had this replicated around 1004 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,000 the square it would certainly start to really detract and 1005 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,800 once you've done it once yeah maybe 1006 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,099 it'd be easier to say yeah we can do it so just one more 1007 00:57:27,099 --> 00:57:29,840 comment okay kenneth um i agree with 1008 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,010 everybody i love the mural the side of it i think it fits 1009 00:57:33,010 --> 00:57:35,280 in really really nice but it looks too 1010 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,340 in my opinion almost cartoonishy on the front of the 1011 00:57:39,340 --> 00:57:41,599 building and it takes away from the presence 1012 00:57:41,599 --> 00:57:51,590 of the square um i'm just going to add my own two cents i 1013 00:57:51,590 --> 00:57:56,400 love it i do i i mean i live right next to 1014 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,079 it i love it i see it every day i watched it go up i was 1015 00:57:59,079 --> 00:58:01,440 surprised to see it go up when it did because 1016 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:07,809 i had just spread through my agenda but um i i love it i 1017 00:58:07,809 --> 00:58:11,360 love the continuation of the art project 1018 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:17,159 and when i look at the um the guidelines for downtown where 1019 00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:19,199 it talks about um all 1020 00:58:20,639 --> 00:58:23,880 you know wall signs and murals one of the things it says is 1021 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,480 the renovation of historic advertising 1022 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,389 is encouraged you know that along with creation of large- 1023 00:58:31,389 --> 00:58:34,159 scale murals as a form of public art and i 1024 00:58:34,159 --> 00:58:36,750 i love seeing public art in denton it's one of the things 1025 00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:38,639 that i think makes this really unique 1026 00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:46,250 and while i i don't love that i did watch it go up this 1027 00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:49,280 weekend when i knew it was on my agenda for 1028 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,460 tonight i did understand because i i knew that the rent the 1029 00:58:52,460 --> 00:58:54,239 the lift had been rented out and 1030 00:58:56,639 --> 00:59:00,039 as frustrating as that can be and i don't want to set a 1031 00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:04,320 precedent for the do it and then the hand 1032 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,840 slap or the asking for forgiveness after absolutely not and 1033 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,280 and we've really fought against a lot of 1034 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,480 that in the last several years on this board um i think 1035 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,159 that paint doesn't change a structure 1036 00:59:21,199 --> 00:59:25,460 and we have some pretty out there paint on the the square 1037 00:59:25,460 --> 00:59:28,239 and i might be the only person who 1038 00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:31,719 who has this opinion on this board but i kind of love it on 1039 00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:33,599 the front i love that it's a full 1040 00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:37,460 wrap around it's an art piece and i think it also brings 1041 00:59:37,460 --> 00:59:40,239 back um i think it highlights preservation 1042 00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:43,760 in a lot of ways so but that's my two cents and we don't 1043 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,159 all have to agree and that's why there's 1044 00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:49,440 a board roy and john do you have anything that you would 1045 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,440 like to add or any anything that you'd 1046 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:56,110 like to say while we're still in this discussion well john 1047 00:59:56,110 --> 00:59:59,199 i'm trying to digest everything it was 1048 00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:05,369 said here take your time i'm i'm torn because i have a very 1049 01:00:05,369 --> 01:00:10,000 strong belief that what is yours is 1050 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,800 yours and you should be able to do what you want with it i 1051 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,519 have a very strong belief of that i also 1052 01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:19,739 realize there are rules and regulations and i can see the 1053 01:00:19,739 --> 01:00:23,599 point of view that it could be a 1054 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,440 bad thing but i don't know what other word terminology do 1055 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:30,159 distraction 1056 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:38,079 destroying historical looks and so forth like i understand 1057 01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,800 all that so i'm torn between those two 1058 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:48,369 uh i i really wish that we were able to have all these 1059 01:00:48,369 --> 01:00:49,440 discussion 1060 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,340 before that paint was put on that building i agree that 1061 01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:57,679 bothers me tremendously unfortunately 1062 01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:01,119 that's just not where unfortunately we don't have that uh i 1063 01:01:01,119 --> 01:01:06,079 do not like to see a property owner or 1064 01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:12,260 not property owner this investing money to do uh improve 1065 01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:15,760 the square we're all agreeing that side is 1066 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,559 very nice we probably have the same opinion on the other 1067 01:01:19,559 --> 01:01:23,039 side and on the back um 1068 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:31,760 so but i also realize that while this looks really nice 1069 01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:38,769 what do we do with the next building that comes in and puts 1070 01:01:38,769 --> 01:01:41,360 a mural on the front side 1071 01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:45,340 with mickey mouse on i don't know what disney would make 1072 01:01:45,340 --> 01:01:46,559 you take it down 1073 01:01:51,039 --> 01:01:54,760 that's what i'm that's the turmoil i have right now i 1074 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:58,480 understand you know i mean i i look at this 1075 01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:04,280 and and i do you know i'm not into exceptions i really 1076 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,920 believe that things belong in ordinances 1077 01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:18,070 and to have strong ordinances however there's not anything 1078 01:02:18,070 --> 01:02:21,199 in place that says that we can't 1079 01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:25,309 and again if we're looking at added as a large art as a 1080 01:02:25,309 --> 01:02:28,159 large scale art piece which there aren't 1081 01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:32,170 very many buildings that could do this on all four sides um 1082 01:02:32,170 --> 01:02:36,000 i think it's you know an ode to the time 1083 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,210 that we're in as well a lot of what we see on the square um 1084 01:02:40,210 --> 01:02:44,079 hearkens back to the many changes that 1085 01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:48,349 have evolved over time and i think one of the things that 1086 01:02:48,349 --> 01:02:50,719 they've done here is that they've 1087 01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:55,980 made a change and it it is a part of our current evolution 1088 01:02:55,980 --> 01:03:00,079 but it's non-permanent you know it can 1089 01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:03,440 be painted over and so i think it's a it's a tough decision 1090 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,360 that we've got before us tonight 1091 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,679 roy do you have anything to add just a couple things first 1092 01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:12,480 of all john and i share a strong 1093 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,280 belief that people that own the property should have to say 1094 01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,880 so i i bristle a bit because i don't 1095 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,480 think it's in i remit whether i like it or not i mean we 1096 01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,960 should follow our guidelines right um i'm 1097 01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:28,239 a little steamed that they got the cart ahead of the horse 1098 01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:30,880 but and then my personal belief is once 1099 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,539 you paint the bricks i don't care if you make it i'd rather 1100 01:03:33,539 --> 01:03:35,679 have the normal bricks i'm a big fan of 1101 01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:40,800 that but i'm not sure that's i remit either that's it thank 1102 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,519 you okay can i have something 1103 01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:48,510 just looking at the downtown property appearance guidelines 1104 01:03:48,510 --> 01:03:50,559 when it comes under color on section 1105 01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:54,489 on page 34 it says traditional or light or muted colors 1106 01:03:54,489 --> 01:03:57,119 with pastel or earth tone hues are generally 1107 01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:00,480 preferred the use of very bright fluorescence or day glow 1108 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,880 colors is discouraged i saw that but it's 1109 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,210 right next to the opera house so i don't know that that has 1110 01:04:07,210 --> 01:04:09,519 been followed for a long time 1111 01:04:09,519 --> 01:04:12,769 and if you look at lsa it's got some pretty bright colors 1112 01:04:12,769 --> 01:04:13,760 happening on it 1113 01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:18,800 the opera house though was pastel which he said was 1114 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:22,880 approved was it not was that a suggested 1115 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,800 pastel that hue of purple is pastel to me it is you haven't 1116 01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,840 seen purple have you haven't seen the 1117 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:33,300 purple hat ladies running around um but again thank you for 1118 01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:36,880 pointing that out andy i think that we 1119 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,239 have to look at what this board is for and it's for the 1120 01:04:40,239 --> 01:04:43,280 historic preservation conservation and for 1121 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,239 i i go back to if we're going to restore to make it look 1122 01:04:47,239 --> 01:04:49,039 like it did then it doesn't have anything 1123 01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:51,980 to do with likes or dislikes and if you like it or not and 1124 01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:55,360 i'm going to tell you i'm my husband 1125 01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,929 is has an artist has a master's in art we do art 1126 01:04:58,929 --> 01:05:02,159 photography and we have used this side of the 1127 01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:06,019 building for our art photography so i love art i'm not 1128 01:05:06,019 --> 01:05:08,800 against that at all but i also believe 1129 01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,349 there's times that you put too much art and it takes away 1130 01:05:12,349 --> 01:05:14,639 from this and i do believe in this 1131 01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:18,840 situation it takes away from the character of the building 1132 01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,280 and i also believe it takes away from the 1133 01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,480 mural on the other side that we all like um so that's that 1134 01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,000 's my breast of my two cents okay john 1135 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,869 you had a clarification well okay i just want to clarify 1136 01:05:32,869 --> 01:05:35,840 for me there is no regulation on our 1137 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,159 in the city here that the front of the building can be 1138 01:05:41,159 --> 01:05:41,599 painted 1139 01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:45,670 that says that it can or that it can't that you can't paint 1140 01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:46,639 a mural on it 1141 01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:54,519 i mean the only thing it says about murals is that they are 1142 01:05:54,519 --> 01:05:57,360 encouraged as a form of public art 1143 01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,599 specifically can i clarify one thing i know i was just 1144 01:06:00,599 --> 01:06:03,199 asking ron this the city of dentin property 1145 01:06:03,199 --> 01:06:06,989 appearance guidelines is not a regulation as i understand 1146 01:06:06,989 --> 01:06:09,920 it right it was a proposed uh standard 1147 01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,269 that that that staff came up with to my knowledge that the 1148 01:06:14,269 --> 01:06:17,199 the city council has not approved it 1149 01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:21,739 you know considered it's not established by or it's not a 1150 01:06:21,739 --> 01:06:26,239 regulation it doesn't it's not intended to 1151 01:06:26,239 --> 01:06:32,590 bear upon this commission's decision making uh you know as 1152 01:06:32,590 --> 01:06:36,000 in carrying out its obligations 1153 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,480 under the dentin code uh you know to the extent that it 1154 01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,280 might be instructive perhaps and i don't 1155 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,480 know roman correct me if you have uh information to the 1156 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,559 contrary but you know i was just asking 1157 01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:54,940 rod just a minute ago is why would this bear upon the 1158 01:06:54,940 --> 01:06:59,679 charge of of this commission uh it's 1159 01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:04,079 as i understand it the the charge of the commission is to 1160 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,079 look at historical appropriateness 1161 01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:12,199 just to add to that um to what jerry spoke of these are 1162 01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:14,000 guidelines and you know they're they're 1163 01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,570 meant to help um guide development but standards they're 1164 01:07:17,570 --> 01:07:19,199 they're not so i mean if they were 1165 01:07:19,199 --> 01:07:22,300 standards they would be in the development code or part of 1166 01:07:22,300 --> 01:07:25,119 the development code right and i i mean i 1167 01:07:25,119 --> 01:07:27,449 i bear back to you know what is our mission and i think i 1168 01:07:27,449 --> 01:07:28,880 have to agree the mission is to 1169 01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:34,369 preserve history maybe not history from you know 1890 but 1170 01:07:34,369 --> 01:07:36,480 maybe history from the past 1171 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,789 hundred years or so and i the only thing i've seen as a 1172 01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:42,719 mural that's somewhat historic and i drive 1173 01:07:42,719 --> 01:07:45,619 down oak a lot is the um scripture building used to have 1174 01:07:45,619 --> 01:07:47,920 used to i say it's been painted by the way 1175 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,909 the sign for what was the sign for do you remember what it 1176 01:07:50,909 --> 01:07:52,880 was for it was an old coca-cola 1177 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,489 yeah that's right exactly it was an old coca-cola sign but 1178 01:07:55,489 --> 01:07:56,960 they took that out yeah they 1179 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,199 sam blasted it off and scott brown has the painting there 1180 01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:04,639 now and i look at that as advertising if we 1181 01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:07,400 look back at what they said advertising i don't believe 1182 01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,360 that this mural is advertising anything 1183 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,719 no so if we look at that and those kind of guidelines it's 1184 01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:15,199 not for advertising it's all 1185 01:08:15,199 --> 01:08:18,130 art and but it might might you know the reason i'm not i 1186 01:08:18,130 --> 01:08:19,920 don't really not in favor it's not 1187 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,399 because it's art or whether i like it or not i love blue i 1188 01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:23,920 love white so that's not the issue 1189 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,430 the issue is it doesn't really fit most of downtown okay 1190 01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:30,239 john madam chairman am i i'm 1191 01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:35,109 hearing all this and basically what i'm gathering is that 1192 01:08:35,109 --> 01:08:39,039 everybody is saying that one side looks 1193 01:08:39,039 --> 01:08:43,649 okay the back side's okay the other side's okay but it's 1194 01:08:43,649 --> 01:08:47,279 the front right the facade okay 1195 01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,529 roan when you're done can you put a picture that front yes 1196 01:08:54,529 --> 01:08:55,119 of course 1197 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,720 you can you would like to have this one 1198 01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,119 or you got that big one that's a good one thank you that 1199 01:09:04,119 --> 01:09:06,079 helps that's exactly what we need to see 1200 01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,119 or even the older pictures i wouldn't mind seeing some of 1201 01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:09,840 the older ones 1202 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,199 rolling before this are rather recent in the past year or 1203 01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:17,199 two at tops shall we see history again 1204 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,439 well we've got like this kind of here yeah there's the ugly 1205 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,640 side 70s where they filled in the part of 1206 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,100 at the top that was caves thrift next door and then what 1207 01:09:28,100 --> 01:09:31,119 about two number 14 why don't you show us 14 1208 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:33,909 um that's the back side of the building oh you're right i 1209 01:09:33,909 --> 01:09:35,680 couldn't tell when the small thumbprint 1210 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,140 right and the i think you mean number 12 yes exactly i do 1211 01:09:39,140 --> 01:09:42,880 mean 12 sorry yeah there's the kind of 1212 01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:51,960 so one of the big differences that we notice is what you 1213 01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,239 pointed out earlier roman is that the 1214 01:09:54,239 --> 01:09:58,670 brickwork up at the top has been filled in um you know now 1215 01:09:58,670 --> 01:10:01,760 we have the curved windows but they're 1216 01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,819 kind of a flatter panel um it looks like is that tile work 1217 01:10:06,819 --> 01:10:09,119 yes behind the plaza sign 1218 01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:15,399 can't tell can you yeah it it looks like you can see the 1219 01:10:15,399 --> 01:10:18,479 tile right here right there's the tile work 1220 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,939 um and then it had of course the the top at the the thing 1221 01:10:24,939 --> 01:10:26,239 on the top 1222 01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:32,020 yeah that little things the black things to be i don't know 1223 01:10:32,020 --> 01:10:32,159 what you call it i'm not i'm sure it's 1224 01:10:32,159 --> 01:10:34,979 like bangs helen could tell us what it's called oh sorry 1225 01:10:34,979 --> 01:10:36,720 the black thing at the top we don't know 1226 01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:41,310 what it's called the entablature thank you thank you it was 1227 01:10:41,310 --> 01:10:45,359 probably pressed 10 ruman already said 1228 01:10:45,359 --> 01:10:53,060 it once so he takes credit on me so when we look at today's 1229 01:10:53,060 --> 01:10:56,079 i mean i don't know that i could call 1230 01:10:56,079 --> 01:10:59,489 it a restoration back to this because parts of it are 1231 01:10:59,489 --> 01:11:01,520 filled in and things like that 1232 01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,750 but probably it didn't have a mural on it that that looks 1233 01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:09,760 so different than everything else on 1234 01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,720 on the square right i mean i guess that that's that's the 1235 01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:14,560 point that that i keep coming back 1236 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,439 to is it looks so different from anything other picture on 1237 01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:18,960 the square and you know i've looked 1238 01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,920 at a lot of the things that have been down in the county 1239 01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,319 courthouse and looked at pictures 1240 01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:24,460 from all around the square i'm very interested in this so i 1241 01:11:24,460 --> 01:11:25,600 take a look at a lot of pictures 1242 01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,050 and i've never seen anything looks even close to that you 1243 01:11:28,050 --> 01:11:29,760 know and that's that's the problem 1244 01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,500 i do like murals and stuff but maybe it's not right for 1245 01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:32,880 there 1246 01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,810 i don't and just to address john's concern about property 1247 01:11:39,810 --> 01:11:43,760 rights yes but you know what you were 1248 01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,000 buying when you moved into historic areas that you were 1249 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,239 buying the historic you know look alike 1250 01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:54,439 it's not like we sprung this upon you you knew it existed i 1251 01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,319 mean i know i live in a historic 1252 01:11:56,319 --> 01:11:58,909 district i have to live with that not that a lot of my 1253 01:11:58,909 --> 01:12:00,720 neighbors do by the way they change their 1254 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,229 windows put up fences and nobody seems to do more than oh 1255 01:12:03,229 --> 01:12:04,880 maybe you shouldn't have done that 1256 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:09,840 here's the here's the 1257 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,800 dug around here to find this section that deals with 1258 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:16,640 specifically certificates of 1259 01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:21,319 appropriates and not within a historic district so it does 1260 01:12:21,319 --> 01:12:24,239 tell us here standard procedure i think 1261 01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:28,449 there's a little review in here criteria for denial i think 1262 01:12:28,449 --> 01:12:30,239 uh were you looking at this 1263 01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:42,640 that this criteria i just wanted to point it out there's a 1264 01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,680 criteria for denial now this is in our 1265 01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:50,289 ordinance so it says criteria for denial of a certificate 1266 01:12:50,289 --> 01:12:53,600 of appropriateness one must be denied 1267 01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,109 if there is a final decision that the proposed work will 1268 01:12:56,109 --> 01:12:58,319 have an adverse effect on one the 1269 01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:02,000 external architectural features of the historic landmark 1270 01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,239 two the ex the external architectural 1271 01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:06,859 features of the properties in the block or in the historic 1272 01:13:06,859 --> 01:13:08,399 district as a whole or three 1273 01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:12,279 the future preservation maintenance and use of the historic 1274 01:13:12,279 --> 01:13:14,159 landmark and the district 1275 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,550 and you see there below f that's the process we've followed 1276 01:13:19,550 --> 01:13:22,560 by him submitting an amendment 1277 01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,939 asking for an amendment to a certificate of appropriateness 1278 01:13:25,939 --> 01:13:27,760 and that's that line f there but 1279 01:13:29,279 --> 01:13:32,520 so that's kind of the most on point part of our historic 1280 01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,359 ordinance that i believe exists 1281 01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:38,880 because this it doesn't pertain to a specific district 1282 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:46,109 and the national registered district that we have had um 1283 01:13:46,109 --> 01:13:49,359 has never been legally recognized by our 1284 01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:54,119 local ordinance and um but there are those things called 1285 01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:56,720 the standards or this that which are you 1286 01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:58,890 know i say secretary of interior standards for historic 1287 01:13:58,890 --> 01:14:00,399 preservation but they don't address 1288 01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,569 um they'll they actually specifically address if you have 1289 01:14:03,569 --> 01:14:05,359 bare brick don't paint the brick 1290 01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:10,609 very it's a very conservative approach it's simply uh 1291 01:14:10,609 --> 01:14:13,520 repair rather than replace and and 1292 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:17,869 keep original material um it's kind of the way that don't 1293 01:14:17,869 --> 01:14:19,760 get into this part of it 1294 01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:24,500 don't have a question on denial of things when i came 1295 01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:27,039 before the board i was putting up a new i 1296 01:14:27,039 --> 01:14:29,779 wanted to put up a new building and one of the things is i 1297 01:14:29,779 --> 01:14:31,600 got mine conditionally because you 1298 01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:36,060 could choose what i put on my my board i'm a little i'm a 1299 01:14:36,060 --> 01:14:38,800 little confused a little bit fuzzy 1300 01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,829 how you can say oh you had to use wood you can't use hardy 1301 01:14:41,829 --> 01:14:44,000 board which that changed but anyway 1302 01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,560 it seems to me wasn't this unpainted it wasn't it unpainted 1303 01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:50,079 previously i mean the pictures we 1304 01:14:50,079 --> 01:14:52,640 see historically were unpainted i don't know when it got 1305 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,680 painted it got painted well before so 1306 01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:00,760 if we go here this is this is painted i believe 60 70s yeah 1307 01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,159 because they put the um they covered 1308 01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:08,640 up the the brickwork there probably painted stucco up here 1309 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,579 if we got to go recent we could just i'm pretty sure with 1310 01:15:14,579 --> 01:15:17,359 google street view will give us some 1311 01:15:18,319 --> 01:15:21,600 so while you're trying to find that roman i appreciate you 1312 01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,880 pulling up the um the was that 1313 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,159 from the ordinance what was that from our ordinance okay so 1314 01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:31,359 the argument i was trying to make although 1315 01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:36,229 i wasn't as eloquent as our ordinance was that uh my 1316 01:15:36,229 --> 01:15:40,319 opinion is that a mural on the front facade 1317 01:15:40,319 --> 01:15:43,789 of this building does adversely affect the external 1318 01:15:43,789 --> 01:15:45,920 architectural features of the 1319 01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,840 landmark that we're ready for a motion that would that 1320 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,159 would be it i'm i would be ready for a motion 1321 01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,590 yes i will happily do that i'll make a i'll make a motion 1322 01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:59,760 that we deny the certificate of 1323 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:06,680 appropriateness for the amendment for the mural that was 1324 01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,079 made by angie angie i would like to ask 1325 01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:13,319 you a question are you specific are you saying for the 1326 01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:15,920 entire mural or for the facade specifically 1327 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,229 i'm saying for what has been asked of this certificate of 1328 01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:22,159 appropriateness here for the 1329 01:16:22,159 --> 01:16:27,029 facade and that backside if that is that so the facade in 1330 01:16:27,029 --> 01:16:30,000 this and the south side the south side 1331 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:33,420 not what's already been done no only what has come before 1332 01:16:33,420 --> 01:16:36,800 the board today okay but the south side has 1333 01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:41,670 already been painted as well correct without a coa okay so 1334 01:16:41,670 --> 01:16:44,800 you my motion is for denial okay 1335 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:53,159 did anybody second it i'm so sorry i wouldn't i would amend 1336 01:16:53,159 --> 01:16:57,680 that my motion would be to deny the 1337 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:06,289 the west face only and allow the south okay we yeah we've 1338 01:17:06,289 --> 01:17:09,279 got a motion yeah we got a motion 1339 01:17:09,279 --> 01:17:13,560 that's pending here you can offer and we don't have a 1340 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,800 second yet uh and uh you you could offer 1341 01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,430 a friendly amendment but we we do need to see if we get a 1342 01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:21,279 second to this motion i'll second the 1343 01:17:21,279 --> 01:17:25,000 second motion from angie which one are you second kenneth 1344 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,520 is seconding angie's original motion 1345 01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:34,039 correct yes okay helen is going to offer a friendly 1346 01:17:34,039 --> 01:17:36,880 amendment i would like to offer a friendly 1347 01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:42,260 amendment to uh to that motion which would be for the uh to 1348 01:17:42,260 --> 01:17:45,760 deny the west face but approve the south 1349 01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:50,270 face i'll second that yeah can we say something john is 1350 01:17:50,270 --> 01:17:53,520 seconding that motion so now we would 1351 01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,699 have a vote on the friendly amendment on whether to modify 1352 01:17:56,699 --> 01:17:58,720 the original motion by the friendly 1353 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:06,130 amendment okay all those in favor of helen's friendly 1354 01:18:06,130 --> 01:18:10,319 amendment that was seconded by john 1355 01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:18,579 all those in favor of helen's friendly amendment seconded 1356 01:18:18,579 --> 01:18:20,239 by john please say aye 1357 01:18:21,039 --> 01:18:27,079 aye you should do a show of hands please do a show of hands 1358 01:18:27,079 --> 01:18:31,279 three four five there are five 1359 01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:37,079 in favor of the friendly amendment okay so now you vote on 1360 01:18:37,079 --> 01:18:40,720 it as amended so we can vote on it 1361 01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:44,640 do i not have to ask how many denied well you you do okay 1362 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:49,199 all those opposed please say nay 1363 01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:57,189 with a hand raised so angie and kenneth right okay so there 1364 01:18:57,189 --> 01:18:59,119 are two who opposed 1365 01:19:02,079 --> 01:19:06,279 okay can i ask a question yes you may can we now talk about 1366 01:19:06,279 --> 01:19:07,840 that one since it's 1367 01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,909 yeah because the motion is pending on the floor is the 1368 01:19:12,909 --> 01:19:15,840 motion as amended okay so so my question 1369 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,829 of the board is what difference is it if it's on the front 1370 01:19:18,829 --> 01:19:20,800 side of it facing the square or if it's 1371 01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:25,000 on the side if you can still see it from the areas on the 1372 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,079 square that we were just talking about 1373 01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:29,760 because if you're 1374 01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:36,310 one day up in wells fargo if you're at lsa up in the courth 1375 01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:38,479 ouse you're still going to see that and 1376 01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:44,279 that's still a main portion of the square john uh to carry 1377 01:19:44,279 --> 01:19:48,159 your motion to carry your idea further 1378 01:19:48,159 --> 01:19:50,409 then you have to take it off on the oak side because you 1379 01:19:50,409 --> 01:19:52,159 can see it from the oak side too 1380 01:19:52,159 --> 01:19:55,550 so what you're saying is strip the bill no sir i'm not 1381 01:19:55,550 --> 01:19:58,960 because we already have voted and approved 1382 01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:03,159 that side of it and and i personally was in favor of it at 1383 01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:06,079 that point but that's still not facing 1384 01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:11,640 in in my mind not facing the front of the square okay got 1385 01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,479 it okay i know i got it so i would have a 1386 01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:18,239 i would have an answer to you on that one which would be 1387 01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:21,199 that there is in fact a precedent for 1388 01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:27,260 murals up on a second level we have that at lsa burger um 1389 01:20:27,260 --> 01:20:30,960 we we had it back 30 50 years ago on 1390 01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:36,479 the side of the hardware store evers hardware store as well 1391 01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:39,359 you can see it but it is above and 1392 01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:43,609 it is on the side of the building actually the opera house 1393 01:20:43,609 --> 01:20:46,079 also has the mural that does face 1394 01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:51,060 i mean it is facing the court the courthouse so i have a 1395 01:20:51,060 --> 01:20:53,359 question it is so those that you said 1396 01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:57,750 like that said evers was that advertising yes or was it a 1397 01:20:57,750 --> 01:21:00,319 mural it was an advertising there's 1398 01:21:00,319 --> 01:21:03,680 an advertising mural and then there's art mural and i don't 1399 01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,680 think we're talking about the same 1400 01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:09,880 thing advertising is just that whether it's a neon light 1401 01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:13,039 whether it's painting there's a to me 1402 01:21:13,039 --> 01:21:16,279 there's a difference there i'd agree with you but we do are 1403 01:21:16,279 --> 01:21:20,560 also have it at la uh la burger lsa burger 1404 01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:23,449 where it is a mural up on that patio area okay is there 1405 01:21:23,449 --> 01:21:26,079 really i never noticed it yes but that's 1406 01:21:26,079 --> 01:21:30,539 inside of the patio no no it's outside really i don't even 1407 01:21:30,539 --> 01:21:32,800 know i think i can't yes i'm sure 1408 01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,210 because there's the wall of murals on the interior and then 1409 01:21:37,210 --> 01:21:40,159 there's the big flag on the exterior 1410 01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:46,159 i'll show you yeah google google earth yeah exactly eric 1411 01:21:46,159 --> 01:21:47,439 did you have a question 1412 01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:59,239 okay man so you're keeping track of this right i'm so clear 1413 01:21:59,239 --> 01:22:01,279 he's doing a good job okay 1414 01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:05,960 okay so what we currently have on the floor in motion is 1415 01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,520 while we're bringing this up so there's 1416 01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:13,430 the evers heart see there's the the star there it is but 1417 01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:16,479 that's inside of the no i'm talking about 1418 01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:24,000 the star that's i'm looking up top what are you looking at 1419 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,520 up top and then the mural yeah 1420 01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:30,760 and even on the closer side you got a bigger star yes you 1421 01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,199 see where this texas that's like a texas 1422 01:22:33,199 --> 01:22:36,750 flag running along the side there where did i just it's 1423 01:22:36,750 --> 01:22:39,680 obscure but this is going to be a bit obscure 1424 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:42,260 as well it's it's really above the roof you're almost going 1425 01:22:42,260 --> 01:22:43,680 to have to get a drone to see it 1426 01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:48,880 unless you're in that right it kind of like the uh who's 1427 01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,640 the the jackson law office that's got the 1428 01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,670 oh yeah yeah yeah jackson hagen who's got the big painted 1429 01:22:56,670 --> 01:23:00,159 sign which is i guess advertising but you 1430 01:23:00,159 --> 01:23:03,399 really don't notice it because it's up on that above 1431 01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:07,520 portion that is a wall sign right sign but 1432 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,859 it's also it's also muted i think the other reason you don 1433 01:23:09,859 --> 01:23:11,600 't notice is it's more muted it's black on 1434 01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:15,029 a dark tan or something so it just blends you know i don't 1435 01:23:15,029 --> 01:23:17,439 see it i just but so okay so kenneth you 1436 01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:20,880 had a question about the did you have a question or did you 1437 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,760 just want clarification on this is what 1438 01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:28,710 that mural looks like i just want clarification okay okay 1439 01:23:28,710 --> 01:23:32,720 so the motion that we have in motion 1440 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:41,590 right now on the floor is to deny the coa with the friendly 1441 01:23:41,590 --> 01:23:43,199 amendment 1442 01:23:45,119 --> 01:23:49,989 um that we allow the south side to remain painted so we are 1443 01:23:49,989 --> 01:23:52,000 only asking for removal of the 1444 01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,869 the facade is really where we're at right now okay all 1445 01:23:56,869 --> 01:24:02,079 right so are we ready to take a vote on it 1446 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:05,970 yes what it bothers me is we didn't actually discuss the 1447 01:24:05,970 --> 01:24:08,399 amendment i guess kenneth didn't 1448 01:24:08,399 --> 01:24:12,390 get a chance to speak more until after we voted on the 1449 01:24:12,390 --> 01:24:15,359 amendment so that's gone it's passed 1450 01:24:16,319 --> 01:24:20,229 it's passed okay we're moving forward all right all those 1451 01:24:20,229 --> 01:24:23,600 in favor please raise your hand and say 1452 01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:30,930 aye aye one two three four six seven seven in favor of all 1453 01:24:30,930 --> 01:24:34,319 those opposed please say nay 1454 01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:37,439 none opposed 1455 01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:41,920 so the motion passes 1456 01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:52,229 okay technically you had a motion to deny that was amended 1457 01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:56,800 so you don't have a motion to approve 1458 01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:01,010 the side yet okay so now we have to make a motion to 1459 01:25:01,010 --> 01:25:04,560 approve the side is that what you're saying 1460 01:25:05,119 --> 01:25:08,600 yes because we denied because the motion was a motion to 1461 01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:12,159 deny and now we have to have qualified 1462 01:25:12,159 --> 01:25:16,060 so really you need to have you need to vote on whether to 1463 01:25:16,060 --> 01:25:19,920 approve a mural that's limited to the 1464 01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:28,039 southern facade okay i motion to uh approve this motion to 1465 01:25:28,039 --> 01:25:31,359 vote to approve the mural on the south 1466 01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:34,640 face of andy's bar thank you for your motion helen 1467 01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:44,880 hold on does anybody second i will second it but i do have 1468 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:45,439 a question 1469 01:25:46,159 --> 01:25:51,319 okay can i don't know if i'm can i okay yes you can ask a 1470 01:25:51,319 --> 01:25:51,680 question 1471 01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,180 if that side on the other person approved the back is 1472 01:25:56,180 --> 01:25:58,479 already approved correct the back was 1473 01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:03,390 approved last november thank you john for seconding the 1474 01:26:03,390 --> 01:26:07,119 motion clarification yes yes exactly yes 1475 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:14,399 okay so we now have a motion for approval for the any 1476 01:26:14,399 --> 01:26:17,439 further discussion 1477 01:26:20,399 --> 01:26:25,270 okay are we ready all those in favor of helen's approval 1478 01:26:25,270 --> 01:26:30,159 please say aye with a raise of hand 1479 01:26:31,039 --> 01:26:42,239 aye one two three four all of the above 1480 01:26:44,319 --> 01:26:48,520 all of those opposed please say nay and with a raise of 1481 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:48,880 your hand 1482 01:26:51,119 --> 01:26:54,720 three nays the eyes have it 1483 01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:01,979 by a narrow margin very narrow so the motion is approved by 1484 01:27:01,979 --> 01:27:04,159 four and denied by three 1485 01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:13,359 okay here we go i feel like i need to take a deep breath 1486 01:27:15,039 --> 01:27:17,600 and let's go on to the next agenda item we need to receive 1487 01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:19,279 a report hold a discussion and give 1488 01:27:19,279 --> 01:27:21,359 a staff direction regarding the update to the historic 1489 01:27:21,359 --> 01:27:23,119 preservation plan and hear a presentation 1490 01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:25,880 from the Lakota group eric thank you so much for your 1491 01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:28,800 presence here tonight i really appreciate 1492 01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:40,359 your work on the square okay we like eric we do he does he 1493 01:27:40,359 --> 01:27:42,560 does a really good job 1494 01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,039 while we're doing that can i ask a like a point of order 1495 01:27:47,039 --> 01:27:50,319 again it's a question about the procedure 1496 01:27:50,319 --> 01:27:53,949 because we denied the coa should we not have approved it 1497 01:27:53,949 --> 01:27:56,239 with changes because when we denied 1498 01:27:56,239 --> 01:27:58,689 that didn't they need to go get a new one and come back 1499 01:27:58,689 --> 01:28:01,600 that's why i said no because once you 1500 01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,840 denied a coa it's gone from your agenda and so what we 1501 01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:07,520 really probably should have done is approved 1502 01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,760 it with modifications that that's the reason i said no is 1503 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:12,640 because i don't think you can do what 1504 01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:16,630 we just did but i like i'm not upset with the result at all 1505 01:28:16,630 --> 01:28:19,680 that's a good point but so that was 1506 01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,579 my question yeah and the the problem was we had we had that 1507 01:28:23,579 --> 01:28:27,039 motion to deny get amended and and so 1508 01:28:27,039 --> 01:28:32,840 it complicated the situation and i i don't know you you 1509 01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:36,880 raise a good point i think that uh that 1510 01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:40,609 that that technically uh it makes a lot of sense but you 1511 01:28:40,609 --> 01:28:43,520 know how you still have the unresolved 1512 01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:48,579 issue of the southern facade was never approved and so from 1513 01:28:48,579 --> 01:28:51,199 a pragmatic standpoint southern 1514 01:28:52,159 --> 01:28:55,520 application well i'm willing to let i just like in the 1515 01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,600 future we might want to just think about 1516 01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:02,310 running at it the other way now so that it's clear and 1517 01:29:02,310 --> 01:29:04,479 there's no fans or buzz can we not just say 1518 01:29:05,279 --> 01:29:09,680 let us have a a second motion is a clarification to approve 1519 01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:11,600 well and 1520 01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,090 and i think one of the things that we've really worked on 1521 01:29:16,090 --> 01:29:17,840 in the last several years is trying to 1522 01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,300 work with um owners and operators as much as possible so 1523 01:29:21,300 --> 01:29:23,199 that things can move forward 1524 01:29:25,119 --> 01:29:29,060 but um so i'm really glad that we were at least came to a 1525 01:29:29,060 --> 01:29:32,159 resolve because yes a denial does mean 1526 01:29:32,159 --> 01:29:36,359 that you have to resubmit and then there's a time stamp so 1527 01:29:36,359 --> 01:29:39,359 but don't we need to go back and do what 1528 01:29:39,359 --> 01:29:45,890 Roy said which is deny with well i kind of harken back to 1529 01:29:45,890 --> 01:29:49,359 uh you know henry robert who 1530 01:29:49,359 --> 01:29:53,319 came up with the rules they are they are rules of order 1531 01:29:53,319 --> 01:29:56,720 more than rules of procedure uh they are 1532 01:29:56,720 --> 01:30:00,979 designed to get work done to resolve things pragmatically 1533 01:30:00,979 --> 01:30:03,920 they're they're not really intended to 1534 01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:08,659 stop things from from happening if there's a pragmatic 1535 01:30:08,659 --> 01:30:11,199 result i i think that you did maintain 1536 01:30:11,199 --> 01:30:15,760 order in in your proceedings uh you you you dealt with the 1537 01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,079 situation as it arose which 1538 01:30:19,039 --> 01:30:23,909 was awkward because of the amendment and uh and so i i 1539 01:30:23,909 --> 01:30:27,760 think you came to a determination that is 1540 01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:33,560 understandable and uh agreeable but uh you know is there a 1541 01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:35,840 better way to do it yeah i mean when 1542 01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:39,220 richard hayes presented uh on parliamentary rules to the 1543 01:30:39,220 --> 01:30:42,319 city council he said i've never once seen 1544 01:30:42,319 --> 01:30:48,670 a uh you know any kind of uh board meeting where you could 1545 01:30:48,670 --> 01:30:52,000 you know take shots at it and say yeah 1546 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,869 you could have done it better some other way uh but but the 1547 01:30:55,869 --> 01:30:58,000 point is did you get the work done 1548 01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:02,989 that you needed to do and and maintain order and and uh get 1549 01:31:02,989 --> 01:31:05,760 business done i i think that you 1550 01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:11,149 accomplished your purpose even if you know you you could uh 1551 01:31:11,149 --> 01:31:13,600 you you could point and and find 1552 01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:16,840 procedural errors if you really wanted to look but i i 1553 01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:19,439 think you came to a decision that can be followed 1554 01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:24,539 just double checking that we don't have to revisit this 1555 01:31:24,539 --> 01:31:26,720 again we do know okay all right 1556 01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:37,220 uh-huh oh i've already read it we need to yes please let's 1557 01:31:37,220 --> 01:31:40,159 begin okay sorry i read it before 1558 01:31:40,159 --> 01:31:42,420 well i just have the pleasure and the honor to introduce to 1559 01:31:42,420 --> 01:31:43,840 you uh some gentlemen from the 1560 01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:49,810 lacoda group nick and siraj um who have been uh engaged to 1561 01:31:49,810 --> 01:31:53,279 work to help you guys and me and our 1562 01:31:53,279 --> 01:31:57,250 department uh create a new or update the 1986 historic 1563 01:31:57,250 --> 01:31:59,760 preservation plan for the city of denton 1564 01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,159 they have a little presentation they'd like to share with 1565 01:32:03,159 --> 01:32:05,279 you and this is just an introduction 1566 01:32:05,279 --> 01:32:08,909 tonight just just um letting you know that who they are and 1567 01:32:08,909 --> 01:32:11,199 then we can take any uh have any 1568 01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:16,069 discussion that you guys want to have um and i'll pick them 1569 01:32:16,069 --> 01:32:18,880 up and so with no further ado i've got 1570 01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:26,760 nick and siraj right here if that's all right with you what 1571 01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,600 what you knew that's what it was 1572 01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,590 so we're just giving some direction there's nothing to be 1573 01:32:32,590 --> 01:32:34,000 made emotion on okay 1574 01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:44,970 thanks roman commission welcome thank you um my name is 1575 01:32:44,970 --> 01:32:48,319 nick callow jeresis um i'm with the 1576 01:32:48,319 --> 01:32:51,840 lacoda group i have a long last greek name so if you want 1577 01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,000 to know how to spell i can give you my 1578 01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:57,979 business card later um it's a pleasure to be here to uh 1579 01:32:57,979 --> 01:33:01,039 work with you on this historic preservation 1580 01:33:01,039 --> 01:33:05,630 plan i have my colleague siraj asfahani with me um here 1581 01:33:05,630 --> 01:33:08,800 today uh we flew in this morning so actually 1582 01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:11,699 we can spend a couple days here in the community do field 1583 01:33:11,699 --> 01:33:13,840 work as we start this planning process 1584 01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:16,949 so um it's great to be here i have a very short 1585 01:33:16,949 --> 01:33:19,600 presentation i know that's probably something 1586 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,479 you're going to appreciate after the discussion you just 1587 01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:26,159 had um and being a former preservation 1588 01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:29,399 commissioner myself i understand completely um how the 1589 01:33:29,399 --> 01:33:32,079 decision making can happen um and i want to 1590 01:33:32,079 --> 01:33:34,760 give you a very short uh presentation about what the 1591 01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,800 historic preservation plan is about 1592 01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:41,090 as roman said this is really a uh an update to your 1593 01:33:41,090 --> 01:33:44,000 previous historic preservation plan 1594 01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,960 and um like any community when you have a comprehensive 1595 01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:49,760 plan or a downtown plan or a 1596 01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:53,119 neighborhood plan communities have historic preservation 1597 01:33:53,119 --> 01:33:54,880 plans because basically you want 1598 01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:58,239 we want to look at the future of historic preservation in a 1599 01:33:58,239 --> 01:33:59,520 community and so we want 1600 01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,760 to take a look at what's happened over the last 20 30 years 1601 01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,760 update the plan and then um really 1602 01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:09,010 integrate that plan and all the other development policies 1603 01:34:09,010 --> 01:34:12,079 that the city has uh so that's what the 1604 01:34:12,079 --> 01:34:15,920 um the real basic um objective of the historic preservation 1605 01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:18,159 plan is what we'll talk uh to you 1606 01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:21,010 today about is basically the work plan as we go forward is 1607 01:34:21,010 --> 01:34:22,640 is basically going to be probably a 1608 01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:26,000 little less than a year process to develop the plan and to 1609 01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:27,920 tell you a little bit more about who 1610 01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:33,050 we are at the Lakota group as we go forward and um as i've 1611 01:34:33,050 --> 01:34:36,000 said uh really to talk about what a 1612 01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,359 preservation plan is about it really kind of involves four 1613 01:34:39,359 --> 01:34:41,119 major things this is kind of the 1614 01:34:41,119 --> 01:34:45,319 big broad areas that we'll be looking at over the next few 1615 01:34:45,319 --> 01:34:48,079 months um the first thing um is 1616 01:34:48,079 --> 01:34:51,090 surveying registration it's basically looking at what you 1617 01:34:51,090 --> 01:34:52,880 've surveyed in your community what 1618 01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:56,119 are some areas that you need to look at and then what our 1619 01:34:56,119 --> 01:34:58,399 future national register districts or 1620 01:34:58,399 --> 01:35:01,760 local districts or even conservation districts so we'll be 1621 01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:04,479 taking a look at that aspect uh we are 1622 01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:07,869 looking at economic development or what we call historic 1623 01:35:07,869 --> 01:35:10,399 preservation based community development 1624 01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:13,430 and we look at how do we integrate historic preservation 1625 01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:15,760 when it comes to revitalizing or 1626 01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:19,119 maintaining the vibrancy of your downtown other commercial 1627 01:35:19,119 --> 01:35:21,039 areas your residential areas so we'll 1628 01:35:21,039 --> 01:35:24,689 be looking at economic development incentives and 1629 01:35:24,689 --> 01:35:29,199 regulatory tools as part of that um the third part 1630 01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:33,439 is city program administration we'll be taking a look at 1631 01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:35,520 how the city manages the historic 1632 01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:39,500 preservation program we're looking at how the commission 1633 01:35:39,500 --> 01:35:42,319 operates um staffing um and things 1634 01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:45,680 like that so that's a very important key uh i know that you 1635 01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,000 have been updating your ordinances and 1636 01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:51,350 codes we're not going to be taking a heavy look at that but 1637 01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:53,439 we'll be taking a look at where areas 1638 01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:57,750 where you can improve um design guidelines and things like 1639 01:35:57,750 --> 01:36:00,399 that and then last but not least it's 1640 01:36:00,399 --> 01:36:03,210 it's also about advocacy and education how do we promote 1641 01:36:03,210 --> 01:36:05,279 the benefits of historic preservation 1642 01:36:05,279 --> 01:36:08,020 because not everybody knows what we know as a commission 1643 01:36:08,020 --> 01:36:09,520 yes what are the benefits of 1644 01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,300 preservation so we have to think about how do we promote 1645 01:36:13,300 --> 01:36:15,760 that how do we educate the citizens of 1646 01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:18,289 denton um and how do we get them involved in the 1647 01:36:18,289 --> 01:36:21,119 preservation movement here locally so we'll be 1648 01:36:21,119 --> 01:36:24,859 looking at that uh very closely so all these four parts 1649 01:36:24,859 --> 01:36:28,159 really constitute what we call a comprehensive 1650 01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:31,539 community preservation program so we have all four of these 1651 01:36:31,539 --> 01:36:34,319 parts working well you're doing good it's 1652 01:36:34,319 --> 01:36:37,000 you know it's a comprehensive program so that's why we're 1653 01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,840 taking a look at it excellent um just 1654 01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:43,220 talk about the work plan going forward um there's really 1655 01:36:43,220 --> 01:36:45,439 going to be two basic phases to this 1656 01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:49,680 process the first phase is what we call the state of the 1657 01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:52,239 city and uh saraj and i and several other 1658 01:36:52,239 --> 01:36:54,720 people are going to be coming here to the community quite 1659 01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:56,079 often to really take a look at 1660 01:36:57,199 --> 01:37:00,560 your historic districts um your downtown other areas and 1661 01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:03,600 neighborhoods and um we're going to 1662 01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,350 be taking a look at where there are future districts um but 1663 01:37:06,350 --> 01:37:08,079 there are a lot of other things that we'll 1664 01:37:08,079 --> 01:37:11,619 be doing uh we'll be taking undertaking an active 1665 01:37:11,619 --> 01:37:14,960 stakeholder engagement program so we want to find 1666 01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:18,350 out from the citizens of of denton what they want to see in 1667 01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:20,640 preservation going forward so we are 1668 01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:24,000 going to be talking to the community quite often during 1669 01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,239 this process um as i said saraja and i 1670 01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:28,149 are here for the next couple of days hopefully it's not 1671 01:37:28,149 --> 01:37:29,680 going to rain on us tomorrow but that's what 1672 01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:32,920 they're projecting so hopefully we can get a lot of 1673 01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:35,600 photography in uh but we are going to be doing 1674 01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:38,840 a sort of a reconnaissance survey uh we've already had 1675 01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,119 discussion with uh roman today about where some 1676 01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:44,359 areas we should be taking a look at uh we'll be doing 1677 01:37:44,359 --> 01:37:46,479 mapping and analysis and i'll talk about 1678 01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:50,680 that in a moment there'll be one community workshop that 1679 01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:53,279 will hold probably january january would be a 1680 01:37:53,279 --> 01:37:56,680 good time for us to escape chicago so um so we're thinking 1681 01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,439 that would be a good month uh but we'll 1682 01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,880 be here to to have a general community input session about 1683 01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:04,960 preservation we'll also be doing 1684 01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,970 an online survey for the community and then by march 2019 1685 01:38:08,970 --> 01:38:11,359 we will have a state of the city report 1686 01:38:11,359 --> 01:38:15,600 which is kind of the summary of the first phase um and then 1687 01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,000 the analysis um you know we're looking 1688 01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,750 at a lot of different things we're also looking at historic 1689 01:38:21,750 --> 01:38:24,399 contexts mainly as we look back in 1690 01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:28,600 the past in denton what are the contexts the historical 1691 01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:31,760 forces the people the built environments 1692 01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:35,960 that we haven't looked at before in the community um we've 1693 01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:38,880 uh over the last few years working with 1694 01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:41,420 communities and preservation plans one of the things they 1695 01:38:41,420 --> 01:38:42,880 always ask us are there groups are 1696 01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:46,420 there people that we haven't really looked at um so you 1697 01:38:46,420 --> 01:38:48,960 know for instance we said this during our 1698 01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:51,800 interview you know what about the hispanic and african-amer 1699 01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,319 ican communities here in denton have 1700 01:38:54,319 --> 01:38:56,979 they been looked at what are the built resources associated 1701 01:38:56,979 --> 01:38:58,640 with these groups that should be 1702 01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,880 considered so um so those those are just some of the things 1703 01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:03,920 that we'll be taking a look at so we'll 1704 01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:08,130 take a good um long depth look at your historic context and 1705 01:39:08,130 --> 01:39:10,800 what made denton denton basically 1706 01:39:12,159 --> 01:39:14,260 the other part of the analysis is we'll be taking a look at 1707 01:39:14,260 --> 01:39:16,560 a lot of different policy contexts 1708 01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:19,699 we'll be taking a look at all these things i'm not going to 1709 01:39:19,699 --> 01:39:22,079 get into them in any great detail but we 1710 01:39:22,079 --> 01:39:25,439 are looking at tourism we'll be looking at um you know your 1711 01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:27,600 building codes what incentives are out 1712 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,840 there for historic preservation and what needs to be 1713 01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:34,159 developed um we are also looking at sustainability 1714 01:39:34,159 --> 01:39:36,409 how does preservation play a fundamental role in 1715 01:39:36,409 --> 01:39:38,000 sustainability in the community 1716 01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:40,760 and i'll talk about that no more so these are just some of 1717 01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:42,079 the things that we'll be looking at 1718 01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:45,630 during the state of the city process um as part of our 1719 01:39:45,630 --> 01:39:50,000 approach at locota we always believe that a 1720 01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,279 strong community preservation program has to have strong 1721 01:39:53,279 --> 01:39:55,279 partnerships it's not only just the 1722 01:39:55,279 --> 01:39:58,039 municipality that is going to be involved in uh 1723 01:39:58,039 --> 01:40:00,800 preservation but who are the other entities we 1724 01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,039 need to bring on board that will work with us as partners 1725 01:40:04,039 --> 01:40:06,159 in promoting preservation so these are 1726 01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:09,289 just some of the groups that we'll be taking a look at you 1727 01:40:09,289 --> 01:40:11,279 know obviously if there's civic and 1728 01:40:11,279 --> 01:40:15,180 neighborhood associations universities and schools um the 1729 01:40:15,180 --> 01:40:18,079 community development entities and um your 1730 01:40:18,079 --> 01:40:21,590 tourism program so we'll be taking a look at how we build a 1731 01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:24,399 stronger organization partnership going 1732 01:40:24,399 --> 01:40:27,649 forward and then we're going to be you know doing a lot of 1733 01:40:27,649 --> 01:40:30,640 different cool analysis because we like 1734 01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:33,989 to do a lot of data crunching at locota and we'll be doing 1735 01:40:33,989 --> 01:40:36,239 a lot of mapping one thing one thing that 1736 01:40:36,239 --> 01:40:39,600 we found interesting in your comprehensive plan that you've 1737 01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,680 been working on is there was there's 1738 01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:44,359 really a strong discussion in your comprehensive plan about 1739 01:40:44,359 --> 01:40:47,359 community character and maintaining 1740 01:40:47,359 --> 01:40:50,600 that community character but the comprehensive plan didn't 1741 01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:52,560 tell you where community character 1742 01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:56,020 happens in denton and so we're going to do that in the 1743 01:40:56,020 --> 01:40:59,039 preservation plan where are those areas in 1744 01:40:59,039 --> 01:41:02,319 the community that have high character i show you a map 1745 01:41:02,319 --> 01:41:05,039 from a plan that we're wrapping up in recene 1746 01:41:05,039 --> 01:41:08,279 wisconsin where they asked us to map where the high 1747 01:41:08,279 --> 01:41:10,800 character areas are and where there's potential 1748 01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,159 for adaptive use where there's potential for preservation 1749 01:41:14,159 --> 01:41:15,920 so we're going to just map those 1750 01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:18,840 areas out for you because those may be areas that we may 1751 01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:20,479 want to take a look at closely 1752 01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:22,779 whether they're historic districts or conservation 1753 01:41:22,779 --> 01:41:25,520 districts or areas where we have to take you know 1754 01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:29,739 take some measures to protect that character and then the 1755 01:41:29,739 --> 01:41:32,640 the second phase is really preparing the 1756 01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:37,170 preservation plan so from april to july 2019 we'll be 1757 01:41:37,170 --> 01:41:40,159 writing the draft plan we'll have another 1758 01:41:40,159 --> 01:41:43,060 community open house we'll present that planning and to 1759 01:41:43,060 --> 01:41:46,319 gain additional community feedback we'll 1760 01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:49,470 have consultation with the city and the commission and then 1761 01:41:49,470 --> 01:41:51,359 we'll develop the final plan so we're 1762 01:41:51,359 --> 01:41:55,689 looking at july 2019 to have that happen and then the 1763 01:41:55,689 --> 01:41:58,239 contents of the preservation plan 1764 01:41:59,359 --> 01:42:01,409 you know basically this is kind of giving you a sneak peek 1765 01:42:01,409 --> 01:42:03,279 of what we think could be in the 1766 01:42:03,279 --> 01:42:07,300 in the plan but one is to have an executive summary an 1767 01:42:07,300 --> 01:42:09,760 introduction the historic preservation plan 1768 01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:14,449 will be the first part of the plan and then implementation 1769 01:42:14,449 --> 01:42:17,119 will be important key and then 1770 01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:20,140 we'll have a big description about your historic resources 1771 01:42:20,140 --> 01:42:21,279 here in the community 1772 01:42:22,079 --> 01:42:24,529 and then we'll be taking a look at all your other city 1773 01:42:24,529 --> 01:42:27,039 planning and programs that have some 1774 01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:31,000 aspects or some relationship to historic preservation and 1775 01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:32,640 last but not least we'll 1776 01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:35,609 have a chapter on community engagement and summarizing what 1777 01:42:35,609 --> 01:42:37,119 the community told us during 1778 01:42:37,119 --> 01:42:40,479 this process and i'll let saraj do the next couple of 1779 01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:42,079 slides and we'll wrap up 1780 01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:48,630 so community engagement is the process of relationship 1781 01:42:48,630 --> 01:42:50,079 building with the community 1782 01:42:50,079 --> 01:42:53,319 specifically in a community planning process we do 1783 01:42:53,319 --> 01:42:56,319 community engagement in four phases we start 1784 01:42:56,319 --> 01:42:59,560 with informing we inform the community about the plan 1785 01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:01,920 through a project website and a project brand 1786 01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:05,159 and through social media where we connect with different 1787 01:43:05,159 --> 01:43:06,720 organizations and civic groups and then 1788 01:43:07,279 --> 01:43:09,850 after that we start our listening phase where we do 1789 01:43:09,850 --> 01:43:12,319 listening in two different ways first 1790 01:43:12,319 --> 01:43:16,649 stakeholder interviews stakeholders are particularly a 1791 01:43:16,649 --> 01:43:20,079 group of a specific group of people that have a 1792 01:43:20,079 --> 01:43:23,470 unique relationship with the city of denton and we need to 1793 01:43:23,470 --> 01:43:25,680 hear their voice while that is a very 1794 01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,340 specific group we always have surveys open to the public 1795 01:43:29,340 --> 01:43:31,840 and that's how we hear their feedback 1796 01:43:33,279 --> 01:43:36,180 and then we also hear the feedback of the community when we 1797 01:43:36,180 --> 01:43:38,319 engage with them in workshops 1798 01:43:38,319 --> 01:43:41,189 so workshops can happen in two different ways either 1799 01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:43,520 community open house where we set a date 1800 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:48,029 and people come to us or we surprise people by going to pop 1801 01:43:48,029 --> 01:43:50,800 up and we bring the plan with us and 1802 01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:53,560 find the people and talk to them about it last but not 1803 01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,000 least we empower this community engagement 1804 01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:58,550 process with the steering committee the steering committee 1805 01:43:58,550 --> 01:44:00,640 are the group that basically help us do 1806 01:44:00,640 --> 01:44:05,100 all the previous engagement engagement of pieces and the 1807 01:44:05,100 --> 01:44:08,880 landmark commission and with the steering 1808 01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:11,279 committee they're going to be very engaged in the process 1809 01:44:11,279 --> 01:44:13,199 and they're going to be helping us develop 1810 01:44:13,199 --> 01:44:16,439 the plan and we're going to check in with them on several 1811 01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:18,479 milestones and make sure that they 1812 01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:23,770 are working hand in hand with us that being said we are not 1813 01:44:23,770 --> 01:44:27,359 worried about diehard preservationists 1814 01:44:27,359 --> 01:44:30,789 they're going to be there every single meeting they're not 1815 01:44:30,789 --> 01:44:32,720 going to miss an opportunity what 1816 01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:35,399 we're worried about are underrepresented groups 1817 01:44:35,399 --> 01:44:37,920 traditionally underrepresented in the planning 1818 01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:42,630 process and we have learned that in every community there's 1819 01:44:42,630 --> 01:44:45,680 a group of underrepresented 1820 01:44:46,319 --> 01:44:49,050 and we need to find ways to cross those barriers of 1821 01:44:49,050 --> 01:44:53,279 participation that they have so some of them 1822 01:44:53,279 --> 01:44:57,479 might be millennials seniors communities of color college 1823 01:44:57,479 --> 01:45:00,479 students and we've over time learned that 1824 01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:04,319 we need to find out what those challenges are target them 1825 01:45:04,319 --> 01:45:06,880 and find the best strategies in order 1826 01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,239 to across those barriers and we're going to work with you 1827 01:45:09,239 --> 01:45:11,119 and different community groups in order 1828 01:45:11,119 --> 01:45:17,090 to reach out to them and get them engaged with that oh yeah 1829 01:45:17,090 --> 01:45:22,399 and so this this plan or this community 1830 01:45:22,399 --> 01:45:29,869 engagement plan specifically it's a great looking mural 1831 01:45:29,869 --> 01:45:33,439 where's this mural at again okay so 1832 01:45:37,039 --> 01:45:39,289 we're here to build on previous efforts and through your 1833 01:45:39,289 --> 01:45:42,560 strategic plan we heard a lot about 1834 01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:46,439 a little campaign that said we love denton and we want to 1835 01:45:46,439 --> 01:45:48,720 keep that campaign happening and that's 1836 01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:51,229 going to be our tagline moving forward into this 1837 01:45:51,229 --> 01:45:52,319 preservation plan 1838 01:45:58,239 --> 01:46:00,399 okay just to wrap up we have a couple more slides 1839 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,409 just to give you a preview our preservation plans are not 1840 01:46:05,409 --> 01:46:09,359 text they we pride on putting a 1841 01:46:09,359 --> 01:46:13,119 lot of graphics and images in them so that they're nice to 1842 01:46:13,119 --> 01:46:14,800 look at it's a document you 1843 01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:17,609 would want to read it's something that we want the public 1844 01:46:17,609 --> 01:46:19,359 to read and other stakeholders so 1845 01:46:20,319 --> 01:46:23,340 it's going to be a very visual document so just to give you 1846 01:46:23,340 --> 01:46:25,760 a preview on that and then last but 1847 01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:28,439 not least i just wanted to give you an overview if the work 1848 01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:30,079 the lacoda group we're based in 1849 01:46:30,079 --> 01:46:33,460 chicago illinois we do preservation planning around the 1850 01:46:33,460 --> 01:46:35,680 country but for this assignment we've 1851 01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:39,039 brought two sub consultants on that will be working with us 1852 01:46:39,039 --> 01:46:41,439 one is the clue group it's called the 1853 01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:43,750 community land use and economics group they're actually 1854 01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:46,079 based in philadelphia and they're going 1855 01:46:46,079 --> 01:46:49,039 to kind of help us on the economic development end because 1856 01:46:49,039 --> 01:46:51,039 we feel that that's an important thing 1857 01:46:51,039 --> 01:46:53,789 here in denton is to look at incentives and how do we 1858 01:46:53,789 --> 01:46:56,000 integrate preservation and economic 1859 01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:59,640 development so they'll be helping us on this project and 1860 01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:01,680 then the second firm is mosley 1861 01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,409 architects they're based in baltimore and tom weibull is a 1862 01:47:05,409 --> 01:47:07,439 principal there he's going to help us 1863 01:47:07,439 --> 01:47:10,210 on sustainability and sustainable design how do we 1864 01:47:10,210 --> 01:47:12,800 integrate preservation into sustainability and 1865 01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,670 he's an expert on that so we'll be taking a look at your 1866 01:47:15,670 --> 01:47:18,640 design guidelines and seeing how sustainable 1867 01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:22,880 sustainable design can be integrated with preservation so 1868 01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:24,399 so that's going to be the 1869 01:47:24,399 --> 01:47:28,180 team you'll be seeing the josh bloom and tom a couple times 1870 01:47:28,180 --> 01:47:30,239 during this process you'll see 1871 01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:33,390 siraj and i and a few others throughout the course of this 1872 01:47:33,390 --> 01:47:34,960 project over the next year 1873 01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:39,810 so that's it thank you so much this looks fantastic do we 1874 01:47:39,810 --> 01:47:41,359 have any questions 1875 01:47:45,039 --> 01:47:48,279 i have just a just a couple i just made a couple notes as 1876 01:47:48,279 --> 01:47:50,000 your slides i'd looked at them before so 1877 01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:53,350 they are very graphically very nice i like this so you and 1878 01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:55,439 i'll just give you the through how did 1879 01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:58,680 you how what is the steering committee um how do you choose 1880 01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:00,479 your stakeholders how are you doing the 1881 01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:04,329 selection processes for many of these things well i believe 1882 01:48:04,329 --> 01:48:06,880 the uh you probably should have been more 1883 01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:09,090 clear on the disturbing committee is going to be the 1884 01:48:09,090 --> 01:48:11,119 commission i see pretty much is that correct 1885 01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:16,319 i i just wonder to this and the stakeholders and stuff 1886 01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:22,310 withhold judgment i believe that we've got to get asked uh 1887 01:48:22,310 --> 01:48:23,600 confirmed that that's okay with city 1888 01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:26,840 council we're moving in the direction that either the landm 1889 01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:29,760 ack commission or in in total or if we're 1890 01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:32,760 given the authority we could probably choose less people 1891 01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:34,560 five or seven of you all or something like 1892 01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:38,550 that for a committee yeah okay i'm sure just want to just 1893 01:48:38,550 --> 01:48:40,720 add to that that the code group is 1894 01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:43,329 also going to be presenting to city council uh tomorrow 1895 01:48:43,329 --> 01:48:45,359 afternoon that's actually is that not 1896 01:48:45,359 --> 01:48:48,229 true yeah it's postponed for a little bit but it's a 1897 01:48:48,229 --> 01:48:50,960 problem so we haven't got that confirmation yet 1898 01:48:54,319 --> 01:48:56,000 any other questions okay 1899 01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:02,079 helen um what sort of data are you going to be collecting 1900 01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:07,079 well um let's see uh well we're going to be looking at 1901 01:49:07,079 --> 01:49:10,159 everything that's been done before 1902 01:49:11,199 --> 01:49:14,960 all your survey work uh your previous preservation plans 1903 01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:17,439 your national register nominations your 1904 01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:21,289 local nominations we'll be taking a look at all of that we 1905 01:49:21,289 --> 01:49:24,000 'll be reviewing all your other community 1906 01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:27,729 plans that are relevant including your comprehensive plan 1907 01:49:27,729 --> 01:49:30,000 other plans so we'll be taking a look at all 1908 01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:33,460 those things your economic development programs um we are 1909 01:49:33,460 --> 01:49:36,560 going to be looking at a variety of gis 1910 01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:41,050 data they'll help us do some of the analysis such as 1911 01:49:41,050 --> 01:49:44,640 character areas um so we we already have that 1912 01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:48,880 in house at lacoda for our gis information so that's just 1913 01:49:48,880 --> 01:49:52,079 that's basically what we'll be looking at 1914 01:49:52,079 --> 01:49:55,319 in the first few months it's just taking a look at all that 1915 01:49:55,319 --> 01:49:57,199 information so what about field work 1916 01:49:57,199 --> 01:50:00,890 then what are you gathering in your field work well for the 1917 01:50:00,890 --> 01:50:02,880 next couple of days we're primarily 1918 01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,210 doing our field work the next couple of days we're first 1919 01:50:05,210 --> 01:50:06,479 going to be looking at all your 1920 01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:10,220 all your districts uh we looked at the downtown today uh we 1921 01:50:10,220 --> 01:50:13,119 talked with uh roman this afternoon 1922 01:50:13,119 --> 01:50:17,039 about some key areas that could be future historic 1923 01:50:17,039 --> 01:50:20,720 districts um areas that are of concern um 1924 01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:24,170 i think we are you know one of the things that has been 1925 01:50:24,170 --> 01:50:26,640 very interesting the last few years um 1926 01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:29,539 doing preservation plans is you know neighborhoods that 1927 01:50:29,539 --> 01:50:31,760 were developed in the 50s and 60s are now 1928 01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:34,779 historic right you know so we'll be taking a look at a lot 1929 01:50:34,779 --> 01:50:36,640 of those post-world war two um 1930 01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:40,760 areas but we are also looking at you know areas that 1931 01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:42,800 historically had you know your african 1932 01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:46,039 american population uh your spanish population so we'll be 1933 01:50:46,039 --> 01:50:48,880 taking a look at those so uh so we 1934 01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,479 talked with roman today and he gave us a good um a good uh 1935 01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:54,640 lay of the land and we'll be talking 1936 01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:57,199 with him tomorrow a little bit more we'll also be looking 1937 01:50:57,199 --> 01:50:59,359 at significant architects and people 1938 01:50:59,359 --> 01:51:02,390 you know that are that are important to the community are 1939 01:51:02,390 --> 01:51:04,319 there interviews with the community 1940 01:51:05,279 --> 01:51:07,909 yes um that's probably something we probably should have 1941 01:51:07,909 --> 01:51:10,319 made a little bit more um explicit 1942 01:51:10,319 --> 01:51:13,560 in our presentation we are coming back in december tent 1943 01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:16,720 atively for the uh probably the first first or 1944 01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:19,529 second week in december we haven't pinned down the exact 1945 01:51:19,529 --> 01:51:22,319 dates we'll be working with roman the next 1946 01:51:22,319 --> 01:51:25,989 few weeks on setting up stakeholder interviews so we'll be 1947 01:51:25,989 --> 01:51:28,399 coming back for two and a half days to 1948 01:51:28,399 --> 01:51:31,890 do a series of stakeholder interviews and i'm bringing the 1949 01:51:31,890 --> 01:51:33,840 entire team to the stakeholder 1950 01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:38,170 interview so we can talk to a wide variety cross section of 1951 01:51:38,170 --> 01:51:40,800 the community are there any surveys 1952 01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:46,039 yes there'll be at least one survey um we'll do that survey 1953 01:51:46,039 --> 01:51:47,840 probably around the same time when 1954 01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:51,079 we do the open house and it's probably going to be in mid 1955 01:51:51,079 --> 01:51:53,359 january and the survey it's you know it 1956 01:51:53,359 --> 01:51:56,600 will be internet based um and then we'll you know we'll 1957 01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:58,560 work with roman in the city to try to 1958 01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:01,920 publicize it as much as possible but there'll be at least 1959 01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:04,239 one survey sometimes we do two surveys 1960 01:52:04,239 --> 01:52:07,600 once the draft plan is done you know to see if there's a 1961 01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:10,399 need to do a second one okay so so 1962 01:52:10,399 --> 01:52:15,680 that's full community input all citizens sort of survey yes 1963 01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:20,880 very good thank you any other questions 1964 01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:25,640 okay thank you so much for your time all right thank you 1965 01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:28,640 look forward to working with you yes 1966 01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:30,960 okay 1967 01:52:36,159 --> 01:52:39,399 okay there's no motion to be made for that agenda item so 1968 01:52:39,399 --> 01:52:41,920 we can actually go ahead and move on to 1969 01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:45,789 agenda item e receive a report hold a discussion and select 1970 01:52:45,789 --> 01:52:47,760 a historic property of the month 1971 01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:51,600 the fun part i forgot we had that yay 1972 01:52:59,119 --> 01:53:01,989 okay in your packet you had three houses to choose from but 1973 01:53:01,989 --> 01:53:03,920 now you have two i couldn't get 1974 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:06,810 confirmation from one of the owners that i could use their 1975 01:53:06,810 --> 01:53:09,119 property for this so i'm bringing back 1976 01:53:09,119 --> 01:53:13,430 to you two homes at one at 606 robert street that you saw 1977 01:53:13,430 --> 01:53:15,680 last time this was designed by 1978 01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:19,039 roland laney who was a local architect here who did a lot 1979 01:53:19,039 --> 01:53:23,279 of work and didn't and built around 1950 1980 01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:27,489 and this is just to the west of the bell avenue still 1981 01:53:27,489 --> 01:53:30,640 conservation district soon to be historic 1982 01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,880 district this is a mid-century modern house they're 1983 01:53:33,880 --> 01:53:35,920 actually undergoing some extensive 1984 01:53:37,279 --> 01:53:39,609 let's see work in the back they're putting in a swimming 1985 01:53:39,609 --> 01:53:41,279 pool and a lot of things but they brought 1986 01:53:41,279 --> 01:53:43,630 in the work looks really good and i've had the pleasure of 1987 01:53:43,630 --> 01:53:44,960 walking through this house it was 1988 01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:48,319 like a mid-century modern museum perfectly intact all the 1989 01:53:48,319 --> 01:53:50,640 wood detailing i hope we get an opportunity 1990 01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:55,060 sometime to to visit it together then down below is 1003 1991 01:53:55,060 --> 01:53:58,079 west oak built in 1910 out on on the 1992 01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,050 out on west oak and this is just another home you've seen 1993 01:54:01,050 --> 01:54:02,319 this before but we thought we could 1994 01:54:02,319 --> 01:54:05,409 bring one back and this had been before you three times but 1995 01:54:05,409 --> 01:54:07,199 not three consecutive times so 1996 01:54:09,199 --> 01:54:12,439 just asking for approval to keep our great program going 1997 01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:13,840 excellent 1998 01:54:16,479 --> 01:54:20,899 all right so we're voting on the top and the bottom so we 1999 01:54:20,899 --> 01:54:24,720 've got b and c there's no discussion 2000 01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:30,520 necessary you have to choose either b or c you're going to 2001 01:54:30,520 --> 01:54:33,119 pick one i'm going to ask you to raise 2002 01:54:33,119 --> 01:54:36,720 your hand in just a moment i'm going to give you a moment 2003 01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:39,680 to think about it really weigh your options 2004 01:54:42,319 --> 01:54:47,470 okay here we go if you would like to vote for b as the 2005 01:54:47,470 --> 01:54:49,840 historic property of the month please 2006 01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:58,189 raise your hand okay if you would like to vote for c as the 2007 01:54:58,189 --> 01:55:00,960 historic property of the month please 2008 01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:06,359 raise your hand five okay stuff the ballot box with us i 2009 01:55:06,359 --> 01:55:10,000 know i think we've got some uh we've 2010 01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:12,760 got some representation from the neighborhood over here 2011 01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:14,239 just across the street okay so 2012 01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:22,359 but we live across the street from this okay so uh five to 2013 01:55:22,359 --> 01:55:27,279 two um and the 2014 01:55:29,039 --> 01:55:35,680 1003 west oak took the vote thank you roman for another 2015 01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:37,520 exciting round of historic property of the 2016 01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:41,050 month i'd like to give a shout out to mid-century mods oh i 2017 01:55:41,050 --> 01:55:45,039 think yes especially when they're not 2018 01:55:45,039 --> 01:55:48,279 already in they need to go on tour and then they might get 2019 01:55:48,279 --> 01:55:50,000 see yeah yeah 2020 01:55:52,399 --> 01:55:57,270 we got another couple more items yet okay do i have to make 2021 01:55:57,270 --> 01:55:59,439 a real motion for that no we're good 2022 01:56:00,479 --> 01:56:03,840 all right project matrix let's take a look 2023 01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:10,880 thank you guys see you tomorrow thank you so much 2024 01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,159 we've got some to be determined dates in here and not a lot 2025 01:56:16,159 --> 01:56:17,439 of changes from the last time you've 2026 01:56:17,439 --> 01:56:22,479 seen this um if you want to add anything to it everything's 2027 01:56:22,479 --> 01:56:25,359 sort of in the works sure 2028 01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:30,479 okay if anybody has something to add please let me know 2029 01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:39,779 roy well i have can i ask a general question absolutely 2030 01:56:39,779 --> 01:56:42,960 okay so eric was here and we denied 2031 01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:45,350 him and so theoretically he has to go away and take the 2032 01:56:45,350 --> 01:56:47,039 paint off the front of the building 2033 01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:49,520 yes how long before he starts getting fined 2034 01:56:52,960 --> 01:57:00,479 how much is the fine 500 a day i don't um there's obviously 2035 01:57:00,479 --> 01:57:02,720 going to be a follow-up with 2036 01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:07,500 mr palito we'll follow up with him set a timeline typically 2037 01:57:07,500 --> 01:57:11,359 we will give the person resident or 2038 01:57:11,359 --> 01:57:15,560 property owner adequate time to remediate the issue so as 2039 01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:17,760 far as i find i don't think we're 2040 01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:21,359 gonna enter that yet but we'll definitely follow up with 2041 01:57:21,359 --> 01:57:24,000 the with mr eric palito thank you 2042 01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:29,279 i'll add to that that there is an appeals process so i don 2043 01:57:29,279 --> 01:57:31,119 't know which way to go 2044 01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:36,039 can i ask a question to that yes angie so with an appeal 2045 01:57:36,039 --> 01:57:40,159 process since he did the work before he 2046 01:57:40,159 --> 01:57:45,029 ever got a certificate of appropriateness how can he be 2047 01:57:45,029 --> 01:57:49,600 able to go and appeal to that and i do believe 2048 01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:53,149 there should be a citation given um because he did do it 2049 01:57:53,149 --> 01:57:55,840 without unless he was directed by staff to 2050 01:57:55,840 --> 01:57:59,079 go ahead i think that um that is an order because it was 2051 01:57:59,079 --> 01:58:01,359 done before he came before the board 2052 01:58:02,319 --> 01:58:05,500 i see ron writing things down so he's we you know we have i 2053 01:58:05,500 --> 01:58:07,840 just want i just want to make sure 2054 01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:12,039 posting though uh you know just from a technical standpoint 2055 01:58:12,039 --> 01:58:14,479 the that the posting was to consider 2056 01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:18,340 approving a certificate of appropriateness we're getting 2057 01:58:18,340 --> 01:58:20,399 into enforcement areas that 2058 01:58:21,039 --> 01:58:24,949 are not even necessarily uh you know part of this but it's 2059 01:58:24,949 --> 01:58:26,880 it's it's clearly not a 2060 01:58:27,439 --> 01:58:31,149 part of the posting of approving a certificate of appropri 2061 01:58:31,149 --> 01:58:33,680 ateness so it may be something as far as 2062 01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:37,310 giving direction for bringing an issue back uh that i'm 2063 01:58:37,310 --> 01:58:40,079 just concerned about the open meetings act 2064 01:58:40,800 --> 01:58:44,369 and and getting outside the posting that was well i give it 2065 01:58:44,369 --> 01:58:47,119 just a kind of a follow-up but as far as 2066 01:58:48,479 --> 01:58:52,279 my feeling has been is all we do is just say oh that wasn't 2067 01:58:52,279 --> 01:58:55,039 right to do it so i think if we do not 2068 01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,170 have some kind of posting on what is the penalty for doing 2069 01:58:59,170 --> 01:59:01,439 it everybody is going to keep doing it 2070 01:59:02,079 --> 01:59:04,409 because we talked after the meeting about one of the houses 2071 01:59:04,409 --> 01:59:06,159 in our neighborhood and roman you were 2072 01:59:06,159 --> 01:59:12,609 there i it was it didn't make this and i may be john who 2073 01:59:12,609 --> 01:59:17,119 noted that should follow up with you but 2074 01:59:17,119 --> 01:59:19,100 certificate of appropriate i mean if what if somebody just 2075 01:59:19,100 --> 01:59:20,000 doesn't bother put one up 2076 01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:24,119 and yet they've changed the character about the historic 2077 01:59:24,119 --> 01:59:26,000 house right and we did talk about that 2078 01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:29,460 after the meeting yeah we've got that one and i have it 2079 01:59:29,460 --> 01:59:31,359 that's the house now they made some 2080 01:59:31,359 --> 01:59:35,279 alterations in the back they changed the windows inside 2081 01:59:35,279 --> 01:59:37,520 yeah um well in my you know i've been here 2082 01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:40,760 two and a half years and there has been other than that 2083 01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:42,880 incident i think i can't i have a hard time 2084 01:59:42,880 --> 01:59:46,550 thinking of a lot of times it hasn't in my time been here 2085 01:59:46,550 --> 01:59:49,279 been a problem across the street 2086 01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:54,239 shall i go on it's a common thing but this is not for right 2087 01:59:54,239 --> 01:59:56,159 now so let's move on i just want to 2088 01:59:56,159 --> 01:59:59,399 say that we do need to handle this at some point because it 2089 01:59:59,399 --> 02:00:01,840 happens all of the time and people 2090 02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:04,510 even though you bike around the neighborhood i don't see 2091 02:00:04,510 --> 02:00:06,079 whose whose job is it to say you've 2092 02:00:06,079 --> 02:00:08,640 done something without appropriateness i would like to know 2093 02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:09,199 that answer 2094 02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:14,630 let me just try to address that real quick and then we'll 2095 02:00:14,630 --> 02:00:17,279 speak specifically to the subject matter 2096 02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:22,960 after tonight the results of the vote from the commission 2097 02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:25,520 roman will send out a letter 2098 02:00:26,399 --> 02:00:29,649 of what has happened and what their next steps will be they 2099 02:00:29,649 --> 02:00:33,039 being the eric bolido and applicant 2100 02:00:33,039 --> 02:00:37,029 and within that letter there will be some timeline as to 2101 02:00:37,029 --> 02:00:40,159 when that front facade will be addressed and 2102 02:00:40,159 --> 02:00:44,039 if you like we can share with you what that is either at 2103 02:00:44,039 --> 02:00:47,199 our next meeting or you know through 2104 02:00:47,199 --> 02:00:49,550 email we can also do that as well well i extended that 2105 02:00:49,550 --> 02:00:51,359 question on to ask what happens to people 2106 02:00:51,359 --> 02:00:53,859 who don't even bother like eric did which i gave him credit 2107 02:00:53,859 --> 02:00:55,520 for at least applying for it even though 2108 02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:58,609 he was seeking forgiveness as opposed to permission to do 2109 02:00:58,609 --> 02:01:00,479 it anyway and never even apply for a 2110 02:01:00,479 --> 02:01:03,979 specific appropriate and where the u is to monitor that so 2111 02:01:03,979 --> 02:01:08,560 i mean it's another it's another issue but 2112 02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:11,239 i think we have i would like to put that on the agenda or 2113 02:01:11,239 --> 02:01:14,720 how do we deal with this because 2114 02:01:14,720 --> 02:01:17,960 people do it all the time and nobody does anything 2115 02:01:17,960 --> 02:01:19,840 guidelines for enforcement is that 2116 02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:22,170 what you're asking for well what do you do with somebody 2117 02:01:22,170 --> 02:01:24,079 who has done something that has not been 2118 02:01:24,079 --> 02:01:26,500 approved at all and doesn't even bother to come here and 2119 02:01:26,500 --> 02:01:28,079 they know what full well they they're 2120 02:01:28,079 --> 02:01:32,069 supposed to it's a code enforcement it's a prosecution 2121 02:01:32,069 --> 02:01:34,399 enforcement all those yeah 2122 02:01:36,239 --> 02:01:40,180 i mean it has to be reported and then it goes to i mean 2123 02:01:40,180 --> 02:01:42,640 since we're the historic commission it's a 2124 02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:46,949 violation of of the of historic codes it is but but a 2125 02:01:46,949 --> 02:01:50,079 violation of code is brought before the 2126 02:01:50,079 --> 02:01:54,380 municipal court and it's a prosecution issue uh yes that 2127 02:01:54,380 --> 02:01:57,680 there there is some uh you know discretion 2128 02:01:57,680 --> 02:02:03,479 in bringing it forward and in having a trial and what have 2129 02:02:03,479 --> 02:02:06,239 you but uh in terms of perhaps 2130 02:02:07,199 --> 02:02:10,560 you know policy direction for a code amendment if that's 2131 02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:13,199 kind of a direction that you're going to 2132 02:02:13,199 --> 02:02:17,539 to change policy that's probably you know for a future time 2133 02:02:17,539 --> 02:02:19,840 yeah i agree it's for a future time 2134 02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:24,250 but it keeps popping up and so i mean just just really 2135 02:02:24,250 --> 02:02:27,680 quickly add that um if it is a zoning 2136 02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:31,109 requirement and zoning of appropriateness is a zoning 2137 02:02:31,109 --> 02:02:34,239 requirement we do have two zoning officers 2138 02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:37,949 and so any report of any violation will be forwarded to 2139 02:02:37,949 --> 02:02:40,000 those two officers they will follow 2140 02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:44,199 up and if needed citations and any follow-ups will happen 2141 02:02:44,199 --> 02:02:45,199 accordingly 2142 02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:50,220 and uh certainly if there have been other violations that 2143 02:02:50,220 --> 02:02:51,520 you mentioned 2144 02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:56,159 they haven't made it here of course not yeah i have not 2145 02:02:56,159 --> 02:02:58,399 seen that and i wasn't aware of it i mean 2146 02:02:58,399 --> 02:03:03,739 i don't live in your neighborhood but uh we don't get a lot 2147 02:03:03,739 --> 02:03:06,720 of uh sort of a discussion on on that 2148 02:03:06,720 --> 02:03:11,779 on that topic maybe never since and i've been one year here 2149 02:03:11,779 --> 02:03:15,520 so thank you ellen roy well i'm 2150 02:03:16,079 --> 02:03:19,260 i don't know that i mean it's a code enforcement issue i 2151 02:03:19,260 --> 02:03:20,960 mean those violations would probably 2152 02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:24,470 never come on our agenda right it's not not what we do not 2153 02:03:24,470 --> 02:03:26,000 unless they issue a coa 2154 02:03:27,920 --> 02:03:30,550 right we follow up retroactively even that becomes an 2155 02:03:30,550 --> 02:03:33,199 enforcement issue like suppose we issue a coa 2156 02:03:33,199 --> 02:03:36,020 and someone doesn't follow it that never comes back on our 2157 02:03:36,020 --> 02:03:40,079 agenda does it uh not general i mean 2158 02:03:40,079 --> 02:03:44,060 i guess what i'm really saying is do what you want is what 2159 02:03:44,060 --> 02:03:47,119 i hear i mean that's what i hear if if you 2160 02:03:47,119 --> 02:03:50,720 don't apply for a coa i'm here and do what you want because 2161 02:03:50,720 --> 02:03:52,880 nobody cares i mean i i just kind 2162 02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:56,329 of what i hear well no it's just it's a code enforcement 2163 02:03:56,329 --> 02:03:58,960 city officer they're the enforcement 2164 02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:03,159 branch we simply review coas and issue them or deny them or 2165 02:04:03,159 --> 02:04:05,359 approve them with modification 2166 02:04:06,079 --> 02:04:08,149 though if someone does what you're suggesting yeah there's 2167 02:04:08,149 --> 02:04:10,960 there's certainly a process for that but 2168 02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:16,750 it's not us educate me later on we can do a little i'd like 2169 02:04:16,750 --> 02:04:19,359 to do a little background i was quickly 2170 02:04:19,359 --> 02:04:21,970 checking on that i know in brownsville texas the landmark 2171 02:04:21,970 --> 02:04:24,159 commission can actually suggest the 2172 02:04:24,159 --> 02:04:27,850 a penalty and i'm looking here this is where we get into it 2173 02:04:27,850 --> 02:04:29,680 on this part of the code but 2174 02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:32,289 i don't remember having that penalty options i'm sorry i 2175 02:04:32,289 --> 02:04:34,960 didn't but but i but i on the topic i just 2176 02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:37,930 want to say that it we haven't seen it a lot and if it's an 2177 02:04:37,930 --> 02:04:40,239 issue we we in turn we need to get on 2178 02:04:40,239 --> 02:04:44,949 that a part of it but i will say um and and this gets to 2179 02:04:44,949 --> 02:04:48,640 the point of a mr palito's painting on his 2180 02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:52,300 building um that you know we're going we are the city of 2181 02:04:52,300 --> 02:04:55,359 the development service department's making 2182 02:04:55,359 --> 02:04:58,970 really good progress with an ordinance amendment that will 2183 02:04:58,970 --> 02:05:01,520 really provide some level of protection 2184 02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:05,409 for the downtown square and that's gotten nearly well no 2185 02:05:05,409 --> 02:05:08,159 unanimous support from the business owners 2186 02:05:08,159 --> 02:05:10,819 and the building owners in the community and i think that 2187 02:05:10,819 --> 02:05:12,479 credit goes to scott mcdonald who 2188 02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:17,119 kind of came up with the idea of how to put pull that 2189 02:05:17,119 --> 02:05:19,760 together and i i hope that people keep keep 2190 02:05:19,760 --> 02:05:23,119 in there keep in mind that you know let's move forward and 2191 02:05:23,119 --> 02:05:25,279 do good but sometimes you've got to 2192 02:05:25,279 --> 02:05:28,520 choose your choose the battles as they say but importantly 2193 02:05:28,520 --> 02:05:30,319 that's a cliche the important thing 2194 02:05:30,319 --> 02:05:34,020 is that we uh keep keep our eye on the big goal of the long 2195 02:05:34,020 --> 02:05:37,520 -term heritage of our city and and 2196 02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:40,359 the landmark commission in the past before i was here a 2197 02:05:40,359 --> 02:05:42,720 long time ago apparently there were problems 2198 02:05:42,720 --> 02:05:45,060 that were this at time that even the city council 2199 02:05:45,060 --> 02:05:47,600 considered that this this taking away the landmark 2200 02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:50,840 commission so uh you know the the we've got to not not 2201 02:05:50,840 --> 02:05:53,359 saying we wrote we we protect buildings 2202 02:05:53,359 --> 02:05:55,760 that's what we're going to do we're always going to do that 2203 02:05:55,760 --> 02:05:57,359 i'm just saying keep an eye on the big 2204 02:05:57,359 --> 02:06:01,159 picture that's all that's what i would suggest we keep 2205 02:06:01,159 --> 02:06:04,159 trying to do but uh i have one more item if 2206 02:06:04,159 --> 02:06:07,399 we get if you oh you still have this before you the uh the 2207 02:06:07,399 --> 02:06:09,039 project matrix matrix here 2208 02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:14,250 okay did you say you have one more item we've added the uh 2209 02:06:14,250 --> 02:06:16,560 and talking about enforcement next 2210 02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:18,699 time some kind of or some kind of clarification on 2211 02:06:18,699 --> 02:06:21,039 enforcement and then you want to we're going 2212 02:06:21,039 --> 02:06:26,239 to follow up on that house over there um where on here is 2213 02:06:26,239 --> 02:06:29,760 the effort that we were was presented to us 2214 02:06:29,760 --> 02:06:34,789 just now it well that happened a while back it's been 2215 02:06:34,789 --> 02:06:40,000 allocated um so so okay there's no action on 2216 02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:44,010 our part no put it on right now if the plans go forward i 2217 02:06:44,010 --> 02:06:46,720 'll meet with them and we'll we do need 2218 02:06:46,720 --> 02:06:49,689 to just confirm how we move forward and we want to run run 2219 02:06:49,689 --> 02:06:52,000 it by city council they've uh already 2220 02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:53,909 approved a budget for this we just want to make sure they 2221 02:06:53,909 --> 02:06:55,279 're fully on board with their direction 2222 02:06:55,279 --> 02:06:57,789 we're going with creating updating the preservation plan so 2223 02:06:57,789 --> 02:06:59,920 i'll make one comment the the uh 2224 02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:04,329 lacoda just mentioned that they wanted to look at our 2225 02:07:04,329 --> 02:07:08,000 design guidelines and we don't really have 2226 02:07:09,359 --> 02:07:12,600 so i was like well that's interesting we've got a little 2227 02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:14,960 segment see little pieces little snippets 2228 02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:17,899 so they're going to look at those snippets yeah yeah it's 2229 02:07:17,899 --> 02:07:20,000 not fleshed out enough to be 2230 02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:22,520 much use to them and so that's why i've started asking more 2231 02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:23,760 questions about what 2232 02:07:24,479 --> 02:07:27,449 what information you're going to gather because uh you know 2233 02:07:27,449 --> 02:07:29,279 i think that if you go back and look at 2234 02:07:29,279 --> 02:07:33,890 our documentation it won't take you two years which is one 2235 02:07:33,890 --> 02:07:36,960 very broad project scope from yes 2236 02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:41,460 need to work it's so huge i want i would like to hope that 2237 02:07:41,460 --> 02:07:43,840 the end result is something that we can 2238 02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:47,199 all hang our hat on as a you know moving forward and not 2239 02:07:47,199 --> 02:07:49,920 that's a real good point service to 2240 02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:52,819 lip service to a requirement right well i think that might 2241 02:07:52,819 --> 02:07:54,640 be the good point having this committee 2242 02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:57,880 steered because um you know if there's parts of what they 2243 02:07:57,880 --> 02:07:59,920 explain that seems superfluous that we 2244 02:07:59,920 --> 02:08:03,699 don't need to maybe we need to focus on guidelines there's 2245 02:08:03,699 --> 02:08:05,439 room possibly to discuss it with them 2246 02:08:05,439 --> 02:08:07,710 you know i was actually when when he said that i'm thinking 2247 02:08:07,710 --> 02:08:09,279 well i thought maybe that's what we're 2248 02:08:09,279 --> 02:08:11,630 going to come away with when you were done is is something 2249 02:08:11,630 --> 02:08:14,159 that's really a document with a lot of 2250 02:08:14,159 --> 02:08:17,760 meat in it that we can then follow it was just so it was so 2251 02:08:17,760 --> 02:08:19,920 broad i kind of i was losing focus what 2252 02:08:19,920 --> 02:08:22,569 was their focus again what you know it was just so broad so 2253 02:08:22,569 --> 02:08:24,159 i was just a little worried that 2254 02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:39,199 no i don't i don't think there was no ron's been about 12 2255 02:08:39,199 --> 02:08:39,600 11 2256 02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:51,159 no i don't think there was any historic preservation plan 2257 02:08:51,159 --> 02:08:53,119 efforts uh there may have been some 2258 02:08:55,279 --> 02:08:59,039 survey there was an update to the survey survey maybe there 2259 02:08:59,039 --> 02:09:01,359 was an update to the survey like right 2260 02:09:01,359 --> 02:09:07,329 when i first got on 2012 the idiots uh boliver survey 2015 2261 02:09:07,329 --> 02:09:10,399 idiots hill yes grant funded so 2262 02:09:10,399 --> 02:09:14,369 you know just i have quite a lot of experience in this area 2263 02:09:14,369 --> 02:09:17,199 of these type of of studies and there's 2264 02:09:17,199 --> 02:09:21,109 the good ones and the ones that literally only take shelf 2265 02:09:21,109 --> 02:09:24,880 space and and have no real value once 2266 02:09:24,880 --> 02:09:29,130 they're done and so of course we we want the former we want 2267 02:09:29,130 --> 02:09:32,000 we want something that that is truly 2268 02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:37,170 a plan and not just giving us back the information that we 2269 02:09:37,170 --> 02:09:39,840 already know i guess that's you know that's 2270 02:09:39,840 --> 02:09:42,500 why i'm worried about it being so broad yeah that the lack 2271 02:09:42,500 --> 02:09:44,479 of focus that's okay i mean i'm glad to 2272 02:09:44,479 --> 02:09:47,079 hear that we're probably going to be on it and we can give 2273 02:09:47,079 --> 02:09:48,880 our input and we can say you know here's 2274 02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:53,500 the areas we need to focus we need some real depth of you 2275 02:09:53,500 --> 02:09:56,239 know uh of documentation on where 2276 02:09:56,239 --> 02:09:58,869 we're going forward as we try to preserve the history of 2277 02:09:58,869 --> 02:10:01,680 this community i think people to 2278 02:10:01,680 --> 02:10:04,460 follow once none of us are on this board i think one of the 2279 02:10:04,460 --> 02:10:06,720 things that they did talk about that 2280 02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:10,930 is of great importance is how visual they like their plans 2281 02:10:10,930 --> 02:10:13,359 to be and that's really big because 2282 02:10:13,359 --> 02:10:16,600 this needs to also be an education tool not just for the 2283 02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:18,800 commission who is generally made up of 2284 02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:24,159 preservationists but for the community at large and that's 2285 02:10:24,159 --> 02:10:26,960 a really big deal that the community 2286 02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:30,199 be able to understand what the preservation plan is right 2287 02:10:30,199 --> 02:10:32,479 because look how important it can be to 2288 02:10:32,479 --> 02:10:35,180 cities i mean if you look at grapevine you look at mckinney 2289 02:10:35,180 --> 02:10:37,119 well and you look at how many people 2290 02:10:37,119 --> 02:10:42,920 are hesitant to move into neighborhoods or to have their 2291 02:10:42,920 --> 02:10:46,159 buildings registered or do any of that 2292 02:10:46,159 --> 02:10:49,289 because they feel like they will have their rights taken 2293 02:10:49,289 --> 02:10:51,760 away from them because they don't understand 2294 02:10:51,760 --> 02:10:54,359 what what the historic pressure they would move into a 2295 02:10:54,359 --> 02:10:56,159 subdivision with enough hoa's a little 2296 02:10:56,159 --> 02:10:58,399 old bitties running around giving them tickets for leaving 2297 02:10:58,399 --> 02:10:59,760 their garbage out too long really 2298 02:11:00,880 --> 02:11:05,529 okay but but that isn't an actual thing that people i often 2299 02:11:05,529 --> 02:11:08,479 hear is that there are homeowners 2300 02:11:08,479 --> 02:11:13,420 who are hesitant to move forward with registering their 2301 02:11:13,420 --> 02:11:17,119 house or getting it landmarked because they 2302 02:11:17,119 --> 02:11:20,890 don't understand what the historic plan is and so i think 2303 02:11:20,890 --> 02:11:23,359 that it's really good that we make it 2304 02:11:24,239 --> 02:11:29,140 so that the general public understands it and can latch on 2305 02:11:29,140 --> 02:11:31,920 to it i'm glad we're doing it 2306 02:11:31,920 --> 02:11:35,550 yes it's gonna be great okay all right if there is nothing 2307 02:11:35,550 --> 02:11:37,840 else or anything else to be added 2308 02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:40,859 i have one for the concluding items okay sorry thank you so 2309 02:11:40,859 --> 02:11:43,039 in concluding items you can you can 2310 02:11:43,039 --> 02:11:46,699 recognize uh people there and congratulate people so some 2311 02:11:46,699 --> 02:11:49,119 time back i submitted an application to the 2312 02:11:50,079 --> 02:11:54,039 texas historic commission for a little guy named john mor 2313 02:11:54,039 --> 02:11:59,920 ris and uh isn't that sweet so we have i 2314 02:11:59,920 --> 02:12:02,250 haven't framed this and i just want i just think it's a 2315 02:12:02,250 --> 02:12:04,000 good night to to give a little heads up 2316 02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:07,239 this is an award of merit from the texas historical 2317 02:12:07,239 --> 02:12:12,239 commission yes thank you for all of your efforts 2318 02:12:12,239 --> 02:12:15,880 in preservation john mr mcallan thank you for your award of 2319 02:12:15,880 --> 02:12:18,079 merit submission for john and donna 2320 02:12:18,079 --> 02:12:21,319 morris of denton texas we're delighted to read about their 2321 02:12:21,319 --> 02:12:23,039 contributions to historic preservation 2322 02:12:23,039 --> 02:12:26,399 in the city the outstanding work by mr and mrs morris was 2323 02:12:26,399 --> 02:12:28,479 received was reviewed by the texas 2324 02:12:28,479 --> 02:12:31,840 historical commission staff and approved by our executive 2325 02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:33,920 director they provide an example of the 2326 02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:37,159 wonderful work that can be accomplished when knowledgeable 2327 02:12:37,159 --> 02:12:38,880 individuals show a never-ending 2328 02:12:38,880 --> 02:12:42,000 dedication to preservation we're proud to present them with 2329 02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:44,159 the texas historic commission's award of 2330 02:12:44,159 --> 02:12:47,029 merit and they'd like to come and present it sometime to 2331 02:12:47,029 --> 02:12:48,720 you but i wanted to give you a heads 2332 02:12:48,720 --> 02:12:54,520 up that it's it's on its way very nice thank you john okay 2333 02:12:54,520 --> 02:12:58,319 that's all i have all right 2334 02:13:00,239 --> 02:13:11,119 move we adjourn let's do it we're done