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 Good evening everybody, taking note that we do have a forum present, we're going to open

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 the regularly scheduled meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission.

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 If we will all rise and say the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance and the Texas Pledge, I'd appreciate

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 it.

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 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

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 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one, and

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 indivisible.

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 Thank you everyone for showing up, a pretty robust crowd for a Friday night.

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 Okay, the first item on our agenda is item A, HLC 22-106, consider approval of the November

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 14, 2022 Minutes.

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 Is that going to add any corrections or comments?

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 So moved.

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 Yes ma'am.

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 Motion to move.

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 Oh, we have a motion to approve, do we have a second?

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 Yes.

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 Motion and a second, all in favor say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Aye.

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 Do we have a copy for Ms. Monica?

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 The next on our agenda is COA 22-0015, hold a public meeting and consider an application

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 for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the DIN Development

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 Code to add a new sanctuary building on the existing St. Maximus Orthodox Church campus

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 located at 2026 West Oak, within the West Oak Historic District, the site is located

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 on the north side of West Oak Street between Bradley and Thomas Street and with that I'll

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 turn it over to Cameron.

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 Thank you Chair, Commission.

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 So as stated it's at 2026 West Oak Street highlighted here in red, it's located on

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 that north side of Oak Street between Bradley Street and Thomas Street, the owners are the

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 St. Maximus Confessor Orthodox Church and the construction date of the property that's

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 currently on the site is circa 1910.

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 So the request as stated is construction of new sanctuary building on the existing campus,

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 the location would be located here in that front yard or that southern half of the property

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 which is highlighted here in red and the proposed sanctuary is considered the main building

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 of this property.

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 So this is the current conditions for that property at 2026 West Oak Street.

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 So as stated again that proposed sanctuary would be located roughly in this area of the

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 property.

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 So looking first back at 2019 when the COA originally went through and was approved the

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 materials were brick and stucco, we have that existing layout of the new sanctuary building

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 here on that lower southwest corner of the property and we have that existing building.

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 The property or the proposed sanctuary was supposed to be approximately 55 feet tall

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 with that metal cross at the top, the approximately 50 feet with the dome itself and then approximately

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 17 foot base.

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 So this shows both that south elevation which would be facing West Oak Street, eastern elevation

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 which turns onto the property itself and then that western elevation that faces that western

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 property line.

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 These are the proposed elevations and site plan for 2022.

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 It's predominantly the same site plan as we saw in 2019.

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 We do see that extension of the sanctuary building as you can see here.

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 It's highlighted in that dark black line there.

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 It's extended approximately 36 feet in length and that would be utilized for bathrooms and

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 other utilities.

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 So these are the proposed renderings for 2019 and 2022 so they're roughly the same.

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 So you are seeing a mixture of brick and stucco and these are some of the examples that the

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 applicant did provide to us during staff's analysis.

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 So looking at that West Oak Street comparison as stated they look predominantly the same.

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 There is a little bit of an extension here to complete that roof line extension so it

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 matches that eastern side but as stated the view from West Oak would look predominantly

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 the same.

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 So staff first looked at the standards for rehabilitation and this comes from the Secretary

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 of Interior Standards for Historic Properties and staff focused on the first three standards

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 of rehabilitation and then these last two which are in regards to new construction.

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 In addition staff also looked at our debt and development code specifically section

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 4.9.6c which is in regards to the West Oak area historic district and in that area staff

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 focused on these areas of architectural requirements so we looked at architectural detail, building

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 placement, color, facade materials, front entrances and porches, roof forms, windows

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 and doors as well as parking.

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 So staff is recommending approval of the Search for Properties and request to add a new proposed

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 sanctuary building on the existing St. Maximus Orthodox Church campus located at 2026 West

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 Oak.

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 As the proposed project does meet the Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation as

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 well as section 4.9.6c of the debt and development code.

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 Any questions?

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 Are they going to have to take out the tree?

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 There will have to be some trees removed from the property but they are required to do a

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 tree preservation plan as well as a landscape plan in relation to this proposed sanctuary.

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 If we are ready for a motion I'll make one.

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 Are there any other questions?

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 Yes this height would be the same so that's approximately 50 I'm not sure where my label

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 went but it was supposed to say approximately 55 and then this is also approximately 55

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 from 2019.

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 The new extension is the new extension is in the rear so you do see this kind of hashed

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 line here in the 2019 plans but it wasn't reviewed by the HLC at that time but then

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 you show it in full drawing which is at approximately 36 feet in length.

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 Any other questions?

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 And by the way when you guys were here before you guys took the time to have us come out

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 and see the place and we very much appreciated that because it helped us to understand what

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 you guys were doing and it's one thing to see it on paper but something else to get

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 a tour so thank you.

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 Excuse me hearing no other questions do we have this motion can continue with the motion

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 to continue there's my thing here.

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 Can they speak if I want to?

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 Yes.

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 Sorry about that.

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 We go forward by approving a motion as submitted approve the motion subject to conditions deny

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 the motion or continue the item do I hear a motion?

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 I move approval of item COA 22-0015.

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 We have a motion and a second now I'll open the board for discussion.

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 Wow they're still alive and much well they've been here before and I'm not suggesting there

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 needs to be discussions.

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 No they're very compliant they've done a lot of work.

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 So having done all that stuff let's call the vote all those in favor say aye and raise

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 your right hand.

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 Aye.

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 Aye.

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 Motion passes unanimously.

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 Thank you.

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 You're welcome.

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 Okay next up on our agenda is COA 22-0017.

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 Yes poll public meeting and consider an application fee or a certificate of appropriateness.

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 Say what Mary I'm going to turn it over to you.

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 That's fine not a problem I'm here for you.

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 So it's a certificate of appropriateness according to section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development

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 Code to install solar panels on the roof of existing residence located at 22-24 Houston

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 Place within the West Oak Area Historic District.

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 The site is located on the north side of Houston Place east of Thomas and Cameron is going

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 to tell us all about it.

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 Thank you Chair.

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 So as stated it's at 20-24 Houston Place it is owners are Theodore and Alina Wood and

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 the construction date is circa 1940.

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 So it was just to give you all a little bit of background at the building's history it

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 was constructed for Joe Ray.

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 The architectural style is a colonial revival style some of its defining features is the

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 Gabriel roof which actually is interesting enough about 10% of colonial revivals have

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 that roof with like paired windows symmetrical front facade of the windows in the central

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 door as well as double hung windows.

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 So the request is for the installation of 36 solar panels on the roof which are highlighted

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 here in red these would be located on the first and second stories of the property.

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 So this is the current conditions this is looking northwest from Houston Place.

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 So I stated it'd be located here on that second story roof line as well as the front of this

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 southern south facing roof line.

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 So looking at the architectural drawings so just to coordinate you all this is looking

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 south towards that Houston Place we would have four solar panels in the rear towards

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 the backyard we would have also additional 10 solar panels on that second story which

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 would be facing the backyard then 10 solar panels on the front facade and then the 12

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 solar panels as well on that front first story of that eastern wing.

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 The solar panel elevation similar to a Paseo A it would be a maximum of 10 inches in height

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 from the roof and this would be the proposed system layout.

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 So these are some of the solar panel detailings you guys have seen this in the past we have

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 the solar panels themselves we have the cross rail and the splice butt which connected to

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 the roof and then once again just showing you all how the solar panels would be connected

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 to that current roof line and then these are just the solar panel details in regards to

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 the system itself and how it runs.

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 So staffs analysis looked at the standards for rehabilitation specifically looking at

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 points 9 and 10 which are related to new additions and exterior alterations and then also looking

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 at section 4.9.6 c looking specifically at the roof forms of skylights and solar panels

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 which the historic landmark commission may allow skylights and solar panels on a building

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 if their placement does not have an adverse effect on the architecture of a building or

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 the district as a whole.

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 So staffs recommendation does recommend approval of the COA to install solar panels at the

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 2020 2224 Houston Place as the project does meet the Secretary of Interior's standards

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 for rehabilitation and 4.9.6 c subject to the following conditions that the 12 proposed

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 solar panels proposed for that south side of the one story eastern wing of the residence

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 would be located to that north side of the roof facing the backyard any questions can

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 you bring back up the picture again with that would show it of the structure yes so Cameron

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 there it's going to be on the front on that front story correct story yes so the 12 would

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 be proposed right here not on this section not on this lower section but right here on

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 this section and then the 10 would be proposed over here and then the rest of the rear but

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 nothing on that front on the front door nothing over the front door no nothing over the front

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 door just on this second story and then on the first story on that roof and the sum of

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 those on where the cars are that you want to move to the other side of that yes so these

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 right here what uh staff is proposing to uh move them to the rear facing the backyard

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 on that north side of the roof line and they've already got four panels on the other side which

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 what does the back side look like we do not have a photo of the back since it's not visible

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 from the street so they're going to put 24 up even without that side panel if you were

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 to exclude the 12 solar panels in general yes it would be 24 panels in total the owner's

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 been made aware of staff's recommendation uh staff did talk to the property owners last

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 week and at that time staff didn't have a full recommendation of where the panels would

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 be proposed to go but staff had stated that all the panels they planned on keeping all

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 the panels i just don't know how adversely this is going to affect them having those

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 in a different place i would think on the north side would be better um just from a

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 sun standpoint yeah okay that's probably what they want on the southern side so you know

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 people have put up panels in the neighborhood on the east side i was surprised we've approved

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 one on the east side of oak and i thought they were crazy and they did just fine they

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 have a lot fewer but uh it faces east and they get sun even though there's trees around

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 so i was actually remarkably amazed that they didn't ask for the ones facing you know so

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 that there was less visibility i was amazed i thought they would be there victorian the

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 mustard victorian any um concerns over having them in the front of the house even though

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 it's on the second story but it's at the front of the home it's higher i don't i don't

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 it's mostly because it's higher and you don't see it as much the angle is such that it's

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 like i mean i the roof on this one is what do you know the pictures on these about camera

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 i do not know the pictures and you can tell it's much more in your face yeah it's a gamble

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 um but i was saying i believe the applicant is here so if they do want to answer any additional

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 questions that you all may have um i'd love to know who the salesman has been around that

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 neighborhood um do you have any strong opinions about whether or not they're on the north

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 or south side well i don't i don't know if it'll work on the other side because the way

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 the sun goes that um they figured that if they put them on the south side it would not

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 have given us sunlight now it's possible that we could put them on the detached garage the

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 rest of them because that's way further back from the street yeah but i don't know if they

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 want to do that because then they'd have to do some extra wiring and wiring and stuff

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 you can probably get a lot i'd have to ask but i don't think that putting them on the south side

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 would be like the whole thing wouldn't be worth it i hear that worth it thing i you know but

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 nobody ever shows me the dollars and cents i kind of like the attached garage idea just because

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 it's not as visible from the street you get a lot of panels on there

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 so i'm assuming what what the gamble roof was used to be a garage that could be

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 our concern is the ones facing the street on the house yes and the reason being is because

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 we've said as a group here that i'm facing the street and that very clearly is facing the street

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 whether it's the first story or the second story it is um but it wasn't just this last one where

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 we ran that same issue and and we okayed it was a side street went on the front oh i see

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 it takes it faces front and then can you show me overhead picture

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 oh the other aerial yes thank you yeah i worry about the trees as well

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 and how well they will so that would be the main residence and then that's that eastern wing so

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 it does show some of the sunlight in based on that aerial but i don't

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 and then there's the rear garage in the back oh that is oh i see okay

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 i'm not happy that so much of it shows i mean you know the

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 the trick on a solar panel cost has come down and the number of panels one needs is

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 to even power any kind of house is pretty pretty minimal in comparison to we're looking at 24 plus

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 12 36 yeah 36 so there would be 10 on the main residence with the four in the rear and then 12

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 on the one story eastern wing so the ones on the main house are facing the back some of them are

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 facing the back so these would be facing the back so these 14 would be facing the back these

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 i guess 22 would be facing the front and so if you're gonna put some in the back you can

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 put the rest in the back you know well i don't know if they have enough room to put the ones

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 they need to put some on the front no matter what to have enough room i think we're are we open to

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 this discussion at this point yeah i say okay um we're at the point of questions for the builder

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 or the owner or amaran do i have any more of those questions uh do you actually know that it

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 wouldn't work if the pounds were on the other side i don't know for sure but i figured that's

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 i'll ask i'll ask but don't have to ask me i think they would have suggested putting them back there

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 if it would have made sense or maybe they just didn't put them back there because

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 they had enough with the current configuration but it seems like um the way the sun goes it

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00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:28,280
 doesn't hit that part of the roof that well i guess i don't know why they did it the way they

223
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:37,160
 did it exactly uh probably possibly because they didn't realize the restrictions and they

224
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:44,840
 definitely did not realize that uh which is a good thing to tell anybody that you're going to have to

225
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:51,000
 do something for you in this historical history would i mean i think i i think i told them that

226
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:59,640
 but they didn't understand i don't think they understood what it meant okay uh we can simply

227
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:11,480
 um if we approve this uh with a number of them going on the back or not on the front

228
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:27,880
 so are you so i guess in terms of so here's staff's recommendation are you saying

229
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,880
 to not do what's staff's recommendation and have everything moved to the rear or

230
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:41,400
 so i so i just have no understanding staff's recommendation okay okay so as long as we

231
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:50,520
 okay so now uh for the discussion to continue we need a motion that motion can be to approve

232
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:57,800
 as submitted prove subject to condition deny or continue do i have a motion i'd like to motion

233
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:04,920
 as submitted uh i'd like to get that out first just my lawyer here okay do we have a second

234
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,560
 i'll second it just to get it on the floor okay

235
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:17,400
 we have a motion to approve it as submitted and second the floor is open

236
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:32,840
 okay now what i saw is the panels were on the front part of the roof over here correct

237
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:39,640
 on the one that faces more this way yes so let me pull back this this is the easiest photo for me

238
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:46,360
 to describe it yes so you would have the 10 solar panels lined up in a row on the second story you

239
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:51,560
 would have an additional 10 panels lined up on the backside which you can't see from hughes in place

240
00:24:51,560 --> 00:25:00,520
 lined up in a row and then four other on the backside so then the 12 that staff is recommending

241
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:08,760
 to be pushed to the back this would be six right here six right here okay now my question from the

242
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:16,680
 the owner discussions so we can't talk to them anymore i can't ask a question of them not in discussion

243
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:28,120
 so you say what my my issue is this so they're they're wanting to improve the property they're

244
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:33,400
 wanting to maintain the property which is ultimately our goal is that these these historical properties

245
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,920
 have this people interested in maintaining and updating them on a continuous basis i think this

246
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:47,080
 achieves that uh how's it maintaining i don't see maintaining i just say i just see getting new solar

247
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,160
 panels i don't see that's a maintenance thing it's not a new roof or anything well it's not a paint

248
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,960
 job it's it's putting something that doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood one it protects

249
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,600
 the roof there's a lot of protective things that go wait till the wind gets it it's gonna rip it up

250
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,320
 okay i don't think that's an overly big issue but uh there's a storm tonight

251
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:17,960
 but yeah i don't to me is this is if our goal is to encourage people to to invest in these

252
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:24,840
 in these older homes and to preserve them i don't want to dissuade anyone from doing that by putting

253
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:32,360
 onerous restrictions on it i want to try to encourage that as much as possible and and to

254
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:37,320
 completely rework a plan that we don't know if it's even going to be workable as suggested

255
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:50,600
 um oh i think so well i was thinking that if they uh have panels on the back side of this section

256
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:57,240
 over here to begin with yes they can put them together then and they must have thought they

257
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,680
 would work otherwise they wouldn't be proposing to put them there correct so these are all the

258
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:09,400
 backside ones and so i don't see the difference with putting this section right here back there

259
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:16,360
 so i think they used up all the square footage they could facing south and it was just i think

260
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,800
 it's just a matter of that's where you get the maximum exposure that it's not enough so they

261
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,120
 had to do them on the north side as well well if they showed the calculation i'd be more minimal

262
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:28,680
 but i don't see a calculation that it's not enough i've seen very few things that need that many

263
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:34,040
 solar panels if you showed the calculations maybe you could convince me but the waving hands is not

264
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,640
 convincing me there's still a garage in the back with a little wire you can do it i i think staff

265
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:47,000
 is holding up to the preservation standards well that is what my question would be why can't eight

266
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:54,280
 of them be on that garage i agree yeah and the rest of the bases are under i agree it's not that

267
00:27:54,280 --> 00:28:00,120
 much of a difference in cost garage you would require a whole bunch of extra wiring i think

268
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:07,080
 you'd have to have like a an extra inverter or something i don't know i've done wiring in the

269
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:13,720
 back underground so problems probably a separate solar panel system according to that garage unit

270
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,080
 and then one operating the main house we ran wires all the way from under the ground into our house

271
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,240
 from the back so i i mean you can put a wire underground and i doubt you would need a panel

272
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,040
 but we don't know that and i i will you know without knowing that i don't see that we should

273
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:35,720
 say maybe yeah i think that we're kind of assuming we have to go with what's presented to us

274
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,800
 they also assume exactly they didn't know about these proposed changes they i mean we're expecting

275
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,920
 them to come in and defend something they didn't know what's about to happen right i wish they had

276
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:55,080
 known that so that they could ask the question of the installer the proposed seller so about those

277
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:02,920
 applicant wasn't staff did talk to the applicant last week asking if the solar panels were to be

278
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:09,880
 moved and that would be possible if it would be adjusting that rate of the in terms of how much

279
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:16,600
 energy was coming in and then stuff didn't receive any additional documentation okay okay so let me

280
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:25,800
 ask the commission a question if this motion fails and we went forward with the motion to approve

281
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:35,240
 as uh such as conditions the staff conditions and ask them to do their dang level best

282
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,000
 to try and get some of them off of that and in the back are you guys comfortable with that

283
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:48,040
 okay because that way we get out of here not get out of here right

284
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:56,520
 but they get to they definitely are going to have the sense we don't want them facing the road

285
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:03,560
 but you can only do what you can do right and it's their house right so i'm thinking that's maybe

286
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:10,680
 the fair way to go but we have a motion yeah we have a motion now so so we have a motion

287
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:21,240
 and a second on the floor all those in favor say aye aye all those opposed say no no no that motion

288
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:29,720
 has now failed now do we have another motion i knew that we approved that we approved with

289
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:36,280
 conditions that staff had to move the panels to the back okay do we have a second to that motion

290
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,160
 second we have a motion and a second do we have any discussion on that

291
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:49,560
 i think it's it meets the historical standards i i think that we need to stick as much as possible

292
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,640
 to that everything else is conjecture they've already got some on the back

293
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,760
 it's still at the front of the house they are and that's one thing

294
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,960
 here's one thought it's on a second story or it's on the first story it's still facing the street

295
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,440
 let's see if it's on the second story what difference does that make if it's on the first story

296
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,440
 you've got a good pointer anti

297
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:30,040
 okay uh camera do you guys need more clarification than just do everything you can do to get some more

298
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:36,680
 of them off of the garage onto the real garage so the motion the motion on the floor right now

299
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:43,240
 is to follow the staff's recommendation as submitted in the presentation yeah so that

300
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,600
 we'll have to deal with that motion first and then we can make another motion if you want to

301
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:55,480
 have an alternative option i thought it was subject to conditions yeah yeah it's a staff's

302
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,840
 condition subject to staffs our discussion is are we completely happy with everything

303
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:08,040
 for the commission's benefit depending upon how these various motions play out

304
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:13,560
 if there is additional information that the commission is wanting in order to be able to

305
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:19,720
 assist in decision making then another available option is to continue the item and also giving

306
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,960
 additional direction to the applicant so just know that that option so yeah but continuing means if

307
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:30,840
 nothing happens it's approved after how many days 75 no we don't want to do you don't want to continue

308
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:37,160
 but we could continue yeah you can do a date certain time can we not correct you would have

309
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:43,160
 to sit for instance our next meeting is january 23rd 2023 you would have to say to a date certain

310
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:51,480
 of january 23rd 23 to have the updates made okay so that is an option as well

311
00:32:51,480 --> 00:33:00,600
 these solar panels generally i don't have a lot of experience in this area do we are we

312
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:07,080
 is it a fair presumption that the number of panels that were presented that that's the minimum number

313
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:14,840
 to make it effective no i mean are we assuming that or is that do we know we just okay all right

314
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:22,280
 because of course you can sell your power back so it's it's not i don't think it's a valid assumption

315
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:32,760
 okay any further discussion if we if we approve it and it's not workable what's their solution

316
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:40,440
 afterwards is it to resubmit a new coa you don't have to wait a year if it's significantly different

317
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:49,080
 from this plan they can submit a coa prior to it'd be up to the hbs discretion well the year bar

318
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,520
 is only related to a denial correct yes that's i think okay so if it's if we approve it with

319
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,640
 stop conditions and it's for whatever reason i'm working they want to come back and

320
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,840
 retry their original one and have better backing as to why that can't be worked i would like a

321
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:11,160
 lot of detail that was happening but that could happen it can uh that also be as you know suggested

322
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:18,040
 a way to continue it as if you wanted to move to continue it and ask for that information no

323
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:24,680
 what was i saying and further i mean the reason why i suggested that is just listen to some of

324
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,240
 the discussion about you know is it feasible to have the panels on the north side of the

325
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:37,560
 attached garage you know if that's a feasible option or to understand the feasibility of

326
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,200
 placing any of the panels on the accessory structure in the back and then also maybe

327
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,640
 to have a representative from the solar company that's doing the install help understand some of

328
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,960
 you know be able to address some of the questions that the commission is asking in terms of minimum

329
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:58,680
 versus maximum numbers why why placed on certain locations of the of the roof i guess there's

330
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,720
 certain exposures or do they get better sun exposure on one side versus the other

331
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:09,000
 having that representative available but i would like an independent to somebody who's not selling

332
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,960
 this i mean you're you're talking to a salesman then so i they're going to guarantee that it's

333
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,800
 going to be better if you do it their way so i i think that you know can we get somebody from

334
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,200
 that municipal or somebody that has another out an outside expert that will will speak to that

335
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:33,320
 because i'm asking a salesman to give you a pitch is i would really prefer that we continue it

336
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:45,000
 under january and try to get some information independently for the for our uh well i mean the

337
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:51,560
 question cameron because it's going to come up again and again as we try to decide what's a good

338
00:35:51,560 --> 00:36:00,360
 location and what's not and if you do more about you know whether or not this is solar panels

339
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:07,880
 providing enough electricity that you've got quite a bit to sell back or whether it's generally

340
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:17,160
 the electricity enough solar panel just to provide what you need a home uh i just think if we knew

341
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:24,200
 that we could make a better informed decision well i mean but it that that isn't our decision

342
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,840
 to make about whether it's enough or not the informed decision should be does it match the

343
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,760
 the secretary of interior standards for solar panels i mean i'm i'm all about saving money

344
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,120
 but there are other options that were not considered like the back garage

345
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,400
 and the back side and independent of that we're being asked whether putting them on the front is

346
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:51,560
 the answer no no my question would be putting what's the possibility of putting them on the

347
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:58,280
 back side would that work just as well from some independent person in terms of giving them the

348
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:06,840
 necessary solar power to run their house not to sell back but just to run the house but the garage

349
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:12,840
 is also available to put a lot on there facing the same direction they're asking for a valid

350
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:20,680
 question would be about the additional expense and but we also need to know this information

351
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:26,440
 going forward not everybody's going to have a garage in the back that gives them an alternative

352
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,200
 and we're going to continue to see roofs that may be something that you want to put on the matrix

353
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:39,400
 yes yeah i like the idea for a matrix because i think that it will keep coming up you know what

354
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,320
 is the character of the neighborhood does it meet the secretary of interior standards and i think

355
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:51,560
 we've got you know staff has looked at it very carefully and i'm going to support the staff

356
00:37:51,560 --> 00:38:01,800
 requirement that's suggestion okay so we've had um fairly in-depth discussion any other comments

357
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:10,600
 okay then let's vote this one we're going to do this with hands to make sure we get it right

358
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:17,880
 all those and this motion is to approve subject to the conditions that the staff has asked for

359
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,880
 okay all those in favor raise your right hand

360
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:31,720
 so we have one two three four five cassandra five in favor those against

361
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:49,480
 one the motion passes down obviously

362
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:55,480
 i have seen better health days with your permission i will depart

363
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:02,760
 we're just glad to see you here oh i'm getting better

364
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,920
 no you look a lot better than you did before the last time i saw you so i'm happy to see that

365
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:17,480
 so basically

366
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:38,200
 okay so in my absence i will turn the chair over to miss mary

367
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:47,480
 happy new year or until we see each other again which hopefully is

368
00:39:47,480 --> 00:40:01,480
 christmas

369
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,480
 yes

370
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:21,480
 so that's what i was trying to make sure

371
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:31,480
 we need to be better

372
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,400
 i don't mean you i'm just saying in general you're here yeah we saw ourselves that's a different

373
00:40:41,400 --> 00:41:10,280
 factor okay okay because you're taking from the world so we have to get you a sign

374
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,280
 i have never heard of that one we were talking about you know

375
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:29,640
 okay and i'll i'll contact you and we'll figure out how to do it because for them it shouldn't be

376
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:40,280
 more than just we really are we don't know and then up to that point

377
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,280
 all right thank you so much

378
00:41:46,280 --> 00:42:07,800
 we've reassured and i think we don't have a lot left but we do have some important issues are we

379
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:19,960
 going to the uh item 2d okay um hlc 22-101 provide a recommendation to the historic preservation

380
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:27,480
 officer requiring an enforcement action of a contributing structure on a property located

381
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:38,440
 at 928 west hickory street and so lance this is your i got you staying from right you have a lead

382
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,040
 merry christmas so i'll be out there

383
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:52,200
 are you presenting anything or are you already not presenting anything

384
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:58,920
 it's just need a motion oh you need a motion yes okay i'm just making sure where we work

385
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:10,680
 i will move to recommend uh to staff that uh they pursue criminal prosecution with the municipal

386
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:22,920
 office second okay um do we have any discussion i hope it's limited no discussion shall we have

387
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:32,760
 a vote all those in favor show hands uh we have five forward one abstention out

388
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,520
 okay the motion passes unanimously all right next up is a

389
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:44,520
 are we doing a work session

390
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,040
 well this is our normal this is our like every time oh okay i got confused yeah

391
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,280
 all right so hold a discussion uh regarding the historic landmark commission project matrix

392
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:06,520
 and so you've got a matrix oh i think oh that was quick where did you go

393
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:15,400
 all right a little bit exactly for those of us that are eyes are tired

394
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,640
 okay so these are some of the items that were discussed last meeting that were brought forward

395
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:35,480
 into the request section um we have the public outreach enforcement action and give recommendation

396
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,600
 which is on tonight's agenda of historic landmark commission ordinance regarding membership

397
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:45,800
 qualifications which staff will do a presentation on a later date as well as the quantify the

398
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:52,440
 economic impact of preserving historic properties in addition to regarding benefits for preserving

399
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,080
 historic properties and how cities are incentivizing owners to designate their properties

400
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:02,280
 as well as a presentation of preliminary guidelines regarding property features such

401
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,680
 as fencing and windows for use by the public and hlc and this will be presented by the definitions

402
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:13,960
 ad hoc sometime in early 2023 we do have some additional items for historic landmark

403
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:19,480
 commission's consideration which you all can vote on tonight or you can add your own that you want

404
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,800
 to put in as a request but these are some of the items that were not discussed last time but they

405
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:35,240
 were not asked to be removed so they're still on that matrix if i could just offer a suggestion

406
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:39,480
 given the discussion that occurred on the past item regarding maybe having an independent

407
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,080
 solar panel company come and address the commission that would be an item appropriate to include on

408
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:51,720
 the matrix i'm not sure i want a i don't want a sales company i understand but we could um we

409
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:57,720
 staff could contact dme see if they might have a recommended source or we could ask for a couple

410
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:02,760
 of different installers to come and address the commission and that way you can get a couple of

411
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:08,200
 different perspectives associated with it but just note that if that's something the commission's

412
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,040
 interested in having this would be an appropriate item to include on the matrix and happy to bring

413
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,520
 that back then if you don't but that's not a motion that's just uh it would just yeah we would

414
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,720
 just need foreign votes to get it on as a request onto the matrix i'd like to definitely add that we

415
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:27,640
 if staff could try to locate somebody that could help us become more informed on solar panels in

416
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:33,400
 general i think wearing a suggestion ideally would be somebody uh within the city if there's

417
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,760
 somebody knowledgeable if not then possibly trying to find somebody outside the city sphere of

418
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:45,720
 influence yes do we have to vote that i think yes we need a minimum of four votes to put it on the

419
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:59,960
 matrix teach us do we need to put on them if if we're is it possible to add something to the coa

420
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:06,920
 do we need to put it on here and where i'm going with that is if people are doing solar panels can

421
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:12,440
 we say will you be selling back energy or will you be is it for you i don't know if we can do that

422
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:18,360
 if that will help and then do we have to put that on this matrix to be able to discuss that and do

423
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,520
 that i think i'd like what i'd like to have is information not just for you know to come and

424
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:28,920
 educate us on how many watts of power people typically run per square foot and then how many

425
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:35,480
 watts you get out of a typical solar panel depending on angles and measurements so that

426
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,680
 you can quantify the number of solar panels that are actually needed i was just saying i think that

427
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,600
 that could be a discussion when that person from dme or someone comes and has a discussion but i

428
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,560
 don't think you all have jurisdiction on terms of energy usage and whether they're selling that back

429
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:57,080
 you're more focused on the structure itself and how the solar panels are affecting the structure

430
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:03,400
 on the number of panels i'm thinking right so hopefully yeah are are they doing it for

431
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:09,720
 to be for income but i don't think we get that i don't know can you ask that question but if we

432
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:18,040
 know how many panels will provide energy yes for what space then we can figure out whether or not

433
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:24,760
 if we ask them to delete right it doesn't matter to me if they are or not if they fit our guidelines

434
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,400
 i'm not yeah if they sell it back i don't care as long as they don't they don't bother the look

435
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:37,160
 right yeah i was gonna say why don't when cameron when we do the um the independent entity coming

436
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,400
 back and addressing the commission whatever that looks like yeah maybe on that same meeting agenda

437
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:47,400
 then what we can do is add um post a follow-up discussion and include that as part of our matrix

438
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,760
 item and in that way if the commission wants to have any additional discussion following that item

439
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:58,360
 regarding um its applications for coas on on solar panel we can address it at that time okay

440
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:04,920
 just since we're not posted for discussion exactly do you have any more homework for cameron

441
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:15,400
 you didn't take a vacation did you i just think that um the people don't know obviously from the

442
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,840
 discussions we've had a limited discussion with the property owners who are coming in and asking

443
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,840
 it they don't know this information either right and mary's right their only source of information

444
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:33,480
 is probably a salesperson right and they want to sell more and so that's why we need to be informed

445
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:40,200
 so that we know whether they're what they're asking for is what they really need in order to

446
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:48,280
 provide them with solar power or not i could concern marsala that that if we have too much

447
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:55,160
 information that turns it turns into a problem my lawyer friends that we're denying the right to use

448
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,400
 their property i i thought i thought you said this earlier case and so i'm going to bring it up to you

449
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,360
 yeah i think maybe we've drifted a little bit

450
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:17,000
 but i i think at the end of the day what we're your commission is is tasked to do is look at

451
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:23,400
 the impacts to the historic property and to the extent that information can help you determine

452
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,960
 that we're happy to discuss adding it to the cfa process but i think maybe this discussion

453
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,680
 would be better had after we get some more information all right anything else

454
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:42,200
 yep okay you got one more in work session yep oh yeah okay sorry i forgot about that

455
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:48,360
 i wish we'll thank you okay our work session is this closed no are we closed

456
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:54,520
 so i'm sorry do i need to mention my thing oh yes to remove myself from the subcommittee

457
00:50:54,520 --> 00:51:05,000
 yeah i don't know what the process is so you would need to ask to have it voted on to come back onto

458
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:10,040
 the matrix so that we could add another volunteer or vote someone onto that subcommittee and if you

459
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:22,200
 don't get four votes you still have to stay okay so then i would request that uh the vote on whether

460
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:29,560
 um you know i kept for the next matrix whether i may need to be removed it was a pleasure to serve

461
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:37,560
 oh no you know you can be removed now i'm saying in terms of like we need to add to the matrix

462
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:44,920
 if we need to vote on having you as an agenda item come back and a replacement getting you

463
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,080
 a replacement so we need to put that as an agenda item so that needs to go on the matrix

464
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:59,320
 so let's please put on the matrix to ask someone else to it's a wonderful job

465
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:04,120
 so a replacement appointee to the subcommittee

466
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,200
 so we need four votes

467
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:24,760
 okay okay now we can go on if there's no more matrix items are we done now can we go to the

468
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:33,000
 work session yes okay okay part a um we were on part oh yeah b oh that's it we're on the b behind

469
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:40,200
 this that was so quick b hlc 22-103 to receive a report hold a discussion and give staff directions

470
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,240
 on historic landmark commissions request for local historic landmark designation of eligible

471
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:51,880
 historic properties i guess cameron's going to talk to us well this is actually the historic

472
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:56,600
 landmarks commission's opportunity to bring forward any designated properties drive around

473
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:03,560
 to see anything like they'd like us so this is what was discussed last agenda and this is something

474
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:09,480
 that's going to be reoccurring item where you all bring forward to the commission a property you

475
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:14,760
 think that is worthy of designation and if every we get a minimum of four votes then it goes on a

476
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:22,360
 list that staff keeps up to date and that we kind of start going through and designating properties

477
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,680
 so just a reminder obviously this is the second time we've seen it the first time was more of an

478
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:32,200
 introduction this is kind of second time but this is something that we'll have on our um agenda

479
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:42,520
 from here on out yes ma'am i don't know the address so okay saying to me and i apologize

480
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,920
 i haven't had a chance to go by and actually get the address yeah i mean it's only two houses from

481
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,800
 mine you think i would know what it is i just need a map i had somebody cut me off but i didn't

482
00:53:51,800 --> 00:54:03,160
 follow them to see where they live so i don't know so if there's no items that are no properties

483
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:11,640
 that you all have ready to share we can uh we can very yeah look for uh no we have to vote to

484
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:19,080
 adjourn we are done we are out of here thank you folks have a very merry christmas a very happy new

485
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:26,120
 year thank you all for dinner that was amazing thank you thank you and a great dinner thank you