Dec 12, 2022 Public Utilities Board on 2022-12-12 9:00 AM

for Monday, December 12th, 2022 we will call this meeting to order first thing we'll do is recognize any presentation from members of the public are there you guys all work here all right fantastic we'll move on to the consent agenda and I believe Mr. Ryback wanted to pull a few things I need to pull one too and then recuse myself you do that for me that's I I it's an agenda miss Russell will pull agenda number I okay hang on I'll get to you hang on okay and Mr. Ryback wouldn't pull KLM yes sir there's KL and M okay Mr. Cheeker these just for questions or you want individual votes on each one I has to have an individual book vote I have to leave the room I have some questions on a and H here we go okay I'm gonna try to get this right or what we're going to vote on first for the consent agenda and it may take me a moment so it is we will entertain a motion to we could we could try to go we could let's run through all the questions see if staff can answer them that way you can vote on everything together on consent minus the one you need to recuse for okay all right item number a is that you Larry thank you I just have a very brief question on item a good morning I'm curious why a five thousand dollar item needs board approval it seems like this could just be a budgeted study Michael Gagne director of environmental services sustainability it's just a process we do here at the city of Denton actually since it's over a five-year spend we exceed the $25,000 we just bring it back in to make sure y'all are aware of it because this is a one-year agreement with four options to renew so the overall five-year spend would be 25 over 25,000 okay I didn't see that in the agenda I was like why is the first thing this tiny tiny little study that we probably do every year yes thank you we've been doing since 19 well working off and on with them since 98 been in 2018 since we've been having to fund it thank you all right good question though why do they need to bring five grand to us all right item number E there's a question that's you Larry yeah I just have a little information from all notification maybe some other people here Brian I'm just curious once this gas is stored that we're extracting here where's it once it's collected where's it stored and how's it distributed afterwards into who's this is a different contract than that what this this contract does with with Weaver under under item E excuse me Brian burner solid waste director is that they they manage the system make sure it's it's tight but this gas goes for ultimate destruction we're still in negotiations with a company that will concentrate this gas and actually put it in a pipeline hopefully here after the first of the year we'll be bringing that forward but currently this is for a to maintain the existing system make sure it's compliant with our permit okay okay thank you sir thank you thanks Brian you okay Larry yes okay let's go on to item number H you're rejecting bids Terry good morning Terry Nolte assistant general manager DME good morning Terry just a so this agenda item is is pretty light on content yeah is there any information so I have two questions one is there any information on the range of bids price of bids that we received that can be made public not that we can make public at this time so we went out for an RFP for these for basically 250 megawatts of additional renewables we received very few responses and the reason for that is because of the uncertainty around the investment the IRA the federal legislation and the its impact on on the tax credits so we're gonna reissue what we we by policy we have to reject these bids in order to issue new bids new new request for proposal so that that's all we're doing here and are you I guess waiting up a few months for the IR like the IRS to know we all the standards we think that the industries figured out what the impact is now and so the timing is such that by the you know we give bidders 90 days or so to put their proposals together because these are long-term transactions and that will give them enough time to to know exactly what the financial impact is and then my my other question I guess was so this is a one-time proposal this is it like an annual thing just kind of no these we we periodically go out but for for these requests for proposals but only when we we see that in the future all we have a need for additional renewables to keep keep the total for the year at 100 percent or greater thank you Terry before you go yeah I just wanted to comment that based on the information sheet the uncertainty of the market that I thought this was a wise move so I just wanted to throw in my two cents thank you just this the delight that this redo is going to cause this isn't gonna negatively impact no no okay everything as we look at our positions for this fiscal or for this calendar year that's about to end we should be well above or at 100 percent or better and we have a contract that's expiring at the end of 2020 beginning of 2024 so that's what we're trying to replace is that 2024 and then we've had a significant amount of load growth as evidenced by the new peaks that we set this past summer okay thank you okay I'm gonna skip I for obvious reasons go on to K we need transformers is that what you're trying to say here yes sir can you find them first of all Randy key electric engineering supervisor for do it is very hard to find them been in the papers it's been in the paper yes sir it was your pool there Lee yes sir it was that was my question is why we were making the expenditure on rebuilt utility transformers and I was curious about their availability and how you managed to find them cold calls Wow we have two thousand transformers on order and some of them been on order for over 80 weeks did you say eight zero week eight zero 80 yes that's a year and a half roughly yes sir and the Solomon purchase that we just did they're quoted at 16 weeks so that's why we made the purchase okay well I was curious about it I didn't see anything in the information sheet that made me warm and fuzzy so I thank you for filming us then yes I have no further questions yes sir the mayor referred to I was talking about this and seeing if we could use some federal funding I can't think of the name of the program that was out there how viable is that for us to be able to get and is that just a move to to help the whole situation throughout the country was this something specifically that's just a move to help throughout the whole okay okay so it was kind of a photo op top thing okay thank you you got some just okay sir okay I think we'll move on the next item might be yours too right yes item number L morning Tiffany Thompson director customer service and animal services good morning thank you for being here appreciate it I was just curious about this particular management consulting contract I was under the impression and please correct me if I'm wrong that we sort of already had this in place so I was wondering is this something to upgrade improve modernize change because you give us a little thumbnail sketch yeah absolutely so we're implementing a three one one CRM program right now a UPM which is this contract extension and expenditure increase is really the project manager between the city and variants for the CRM and because of our time being the the customer relation module man because the timeline has extended we needed to do an upgrade for upgrade for integrations for North Star and because of that we're going to be getting on their calendar in January it's going to extend out that project to November of 2023 so we need to have those funds available to continue that project management so that's what this increase is so it's going live November of 2023 both both of these okay so since we're extending the contract is what are the reasons for that it's strictly based off the timeline we had to we had to get on North Star our CIS time frame for them to do the integrations with the CRM and because we're doing that that wasn't in their original scope of the contract and so we need their services to continue that to make sure that we meet that timeline okay thank you very much sir okay move on to item number L I believe that was L sir well that was L I'm sorry yeah okay I'm gonna check it off there M is in Mary for ReadyMix what's that all if you want to go you got a question go ahead I guess I also asked for that one hello Casey Bowles water and wastewater field operations okay I'll go first Clayton what are we talking about when we say spoil material that must be supposed at an appropriate facility is this something sim separate from the landfill the city landfill it is so this is when we take broken up asphalt concrete soil anything used in making water sewer repairs also DM uses this contract Street uses the contract so that kind of stuff that the landfill is not currently accepting where does it go what's the facility it goes to it goes to it's called last chance ReadyMix it's in Denton yes okay okay then the other half they've been they've been digging holes and selling the sand for years right and so now they've created a pocket that you need to fill back in or want to make that real estate or that that land that more valuable that's my opinion of course okay whereabouts is it is on the city limits or it's out off of 428 off Marshawn if you're familiar okay yeah okay it's out there and the other part of my question is how does reducing operating costs help avoid restrictions related to using our landfill location and good morning Brian Burness always director you know the landfill is a is a finite resource and we are extremely fortunate that we recently had an expansion which gives us you know many decades of useful space if we go ahead and put just waste spoil in their waste concrete it fills it up much faster it's also very expensive work for us to manage as a waste product and if we try to recycle it it's even more costly so using the third-party open market we we we are able to beneficially reuse that or we we as the city not we as the landfill as solid waste department we as a city are able to to beneficially reuse that also it's it's a allowable under the current rule as inert spoil that can that can be used for fill so again it's a it's a it's the right and most appropriate use for this material other than putting it in the landfill okay so by not using it to get rid of all this concrete and everything gives us that landfill land to use for it gives us extra focus so yeah then you know concretes non-compactable it doesn't degrade it just sets there and really that that's where we lose money on it okay and then the last part here is what kind of soil and vegetation get mixed in with the spoils material like flexible base hot mix has the other items seems like soils and vegetation is I don't see how they got mixed in with that is that just where they probably dug up the concrete is that all we're talking about yes so you so you're talking about and I don't know exactly what we're saying we're saying vegetation but what we're seeing is as we're removing asphalt if we're moving concrete curve and and the soil around the pipes hauling that out it gets separated there thank you well I have a question is by sending this to a third party having them basically dispose of it elsewhere it does save space in the part I understood but I'm curious are we as the city setting ourselves up for some other problem with the materials that they are moving and disposing elsewhere potentially down the road from a solid race rule standpoint no it is considered inert feel because it gets it again it's concrete it's soil it's basically you know it doesn't it doesn't decay so by putting it in appropriately at the field site compacting it appropriately as Mr. Cheek said it allows that soil or that area to be recovered and then we can build on it you know under subject what's called sub chapter T rules so you build you know build on it pursuant to an area that's been filled okay so basically it's a normal practice it's not something where we're setting ourselves up correct no this is not a unique program to the city of Denton this is done in every single community across our great nation well that was my concern thank you very much who will Brian who will who will take care of the steel in the concrete us or them the troop here yeah so so they do that so they separate it out they separate the concrete as they take responsibility for that steel that's in the concrete okay yes sir that's the main concern when you're burying concrete is the steel it's in it you got to cut it off and get it down and that's right have you ever recycled concrete yes ma'am so this is part of what they do they do recycle the concrete they separate it they crush it and they do resell it and reuse it by a lot of it you drive on it every day okay okay I think we're good for Emma isn't Mary move on to item number in is a Nancy I had I have some general questions on in and oh what is your process for establishing a sales price Deanna Cody deputy director of development services real estate we order appraisals for prior to purchasing any property and then we negotiate as well okay but we must have appraisals for all property that we purchase who do you typically use for your appraisals we have a list of approved appraisers that are on that have been gone through the RFP process or RFQ I always tend to RFQ so we have a list of appraisers that we rotate through okay do you go denton first it just depends on where they are in the list so we just go from appraiser to appraiser on the list whoever's available because we consider that they all have the same skill set so it's just whoever's next on the list we hope that you will continue to say didn't the first there are neighbors and they pay taxes as long as we have dentin appraisers that reply to the RFQ absolutely in your transactions are the does everyone play their respective closing cost or is that a negotiated item it can be a negotiated item the city usually pays the closing costs with the exception of like if they have their own attorney or broker fees that comes out of their the sellers proceeds so each pays their respective closing fees okay that's a oh yes how much land is necessary I know sometimes you have to buy more than that's because that's the track but how do you how do you handle that well there are two ways one there is the the basic amount the minimum amount of property that's needed to to conduct whatever the the needs are that the city has and so that's what we will pursue in the event we're unable to negotiate a successful purchase otherwise in this particular case you'll notice that there were two items on the agenda one is for approximately four hundred acres the majority of that is floodplain so if we were to purchase just the upland we would leave the property owner with all floodplain and so that was a negotiated transaction and so the and the second item is just for what the city needs which is the 50 acres okay oh I'm sorry I have three items on the agenda I was assuming you were referring to the birch yes yes yes not sure it's this time the 400 acres of birch land yes it's all floodplain pretty much most of it is floodplain right okay and and lastly on item p that seems like that that seems like I guess I'm wondering why is that on there because isn't that the natural flow of things is that we try to negotiate and if we're unable to then we carry it toward eminent domain so why is that on there it's here because we have two separate ordinances and the the direction was if there are two ordinances you need both items otherwise it would have just been one item and I would have shared all of it we're we're going for the whole 400 acres and if we're unable to negotiate that when we would just proceed with the 50 acres but because there are two separate ordinances that are going to council and we'll be requesting recommendations for both that they needed to be two separate items all right thank you very much you're welcome I have I have a question briefly although I didn't ask to pull it the 50,415 acres of land is that the total amount of land required for the plant wastewater treatment facility oh yeah no it's just 50 acres 50.50 point 50.415 my apologies that was the 50 acres you referred to yes sir never mind thank you okay so does that mean we covered item number P is in Paul okay there are no more questions than that I'm gonna check that off to go to oh no I was talking about in and oh MP all of them together okay well those is yeah a little different owner but if you're fine with that anybody else on those items okay well I'll check those off too and I am going to entertain a motion for all consent agenda items except for item I as an Isaac motion a second got that all those in favor please say aye aye and I'm gonna leave the room so y'all discussed item number Madam Chair I would like to move we accept consent agenda item by second any discussion all in favor say aye aye opposed same sign thank you we will now move on to items for an individual consideration consider the minute the approval of the November 14th 2022 minutes motion second second all those in favor please say aye item number be considered individual consideration consider recommending adoption of an ordinance of the city of Denton to this home roll municipal corporation authorizing the city manager to utilize a contract through the lower Colorado River Authority contract number 5539 for the purchase of 138 KV and 345 KV high voltage circuit breakers for didn't municipal electric provider expenditure funds therefore and providing effective date file 7995 awarded to Siemens Energy Incorporated for three years with the option of two additional one-year extensions and the total five-year not to exceed amount of two million five hundred ten thousand one hundred thirty dollars good morning Christine do I need to read those all the way through it's always safe yes okay good morning Mark Zimmer DME engineering as said we're here for consideration of a contract with Siemens Energy for the purchase of high voltage circuit breakers for our substation projects DME uses high voltage circuit breakers and all of our electric substations high voltage circuit breakers are used to interrupt the flow of fault current during those situations and limit damage to our equipment that could be caused by lightning strikes or falling trees on power lines or many other causes high voltage circuit breakers used in our substations are similar in functions to the ones installed in your house they're just much larger in in many ways DME has several projects in our approved capital budget that require the purchase of circuit breakers a few of them are listed here on this slide one of them as you can see is a future underwood substation that's in the hunter coal ranch area DME proposes to utilize an existing cooperative contract between lower Colorado River Authority and Siemens for the purchase of these circuit breakers for our future projects a contract was competitively bid and meets all the state of Texas procurement laws so staff recommends approval and of an agreement with Siemens Energy they're in an interlocal cooperative purchase program participation agreement with lower Colorado River Authority for the purchase of high voltage circuit breakers and then not to exceed amount of 2.5 million questions yes I have a question you only mentioned the 138 KW there's also 345 KW could you explain the difference and why sure yes this contract alone will include both of those but we have a few stations that are energized at different voltage levels most of them in our system are 138 KV so the contract is mostly for those circuit breakers but we can also purchase the 345 KV circuit breakers at our Denton West substation it's actually owned by TMPA and not DME but if we happen to have a project there then then we can purchase some this contract will also be in place for emergency material so we'll purchase some circuit breakers ahead of time so we have them available in case of emergency what are the current lead times on these products for Siemens about a year 50 plus weeks thank you on the back of that is this so it's related to the supply chain situation we're running to with other things so that's great we're not desperate right now so the 50 weeks that's right as you see we'd be in good shape if we got a minute we would be okay okay we're fortunate to have a public utility in the city of Denver okay the is most are are the purchases already completely planned and budgeted you've got certain upgrades and certain amount on kind of in stock or is it or is some of this unknown and you may may or may not need to purchase yeah everything in including this contract is is approved CIP projects thank you yes sir all right entertain a motion I think now so moved motion second second favor please say aye aye any opposed sound the same sound the same passes unanimously we're on to item number C I'm gonna read this okay consider recommending an adoption of an ordinance of the city of didn't somebody's gonna get me a bottle of water see you didn't make Texas Home Rule municipal corporation authorizing the city manager to execute a contract with Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC for the construction of the northwest water transmission main project the water utilities and capital projects engineering departments providing for the expenditure of funds therefore and providing an effective date RFQ seven nine six eight dash zero zero two or two Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC in the not to exceed amount of fifteen million six hundred and fourteen thousand two hundred and ninety one dollars and seventy cents and it wasn't originally awarded to Mountain Cascade Mountain Cascade took over for it for the bonding because the company that was building the road went bankrupt that was a separate project it's a separate project so you like them that much huh yeah good morning everybody has whose bet is construction project manager for capital projects the the item that we have before you is the contract recommendation for Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC for the construction of the northwest water transmission main improvement project the project will install water lines from an existing elevated water tank on the southeast of the project all the way to the north west side where another existing elevated tank is at and the route is US 77 we cross across it or underneath of it we travel some along you loop 288 and then we finally make cross underneath the I-35 and to the elevated tank the project scope will install 80 inch water everything from eight inch water line all the way to 36 inch diameter water lines the majority being the 36 inch lines nearly two miles of that various the various casing sizes will be used for the boring locations where we cross underneath the the highways and of course we will the project will also install a cathodic protection system for the for the water mains we issued a solicitation for invitation for bids there was a list of pre-qualified utility relocation contractors that were that were sought after three bids were turned in and out of those three bids the lowest bid was Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC Mountain Cascade came in at fourteen point eight million dollars with the awarding of this ordinance the city will issue a notice a partial notice to proceed so the contractor can start ordering his material that has a lot of lead time for the project to start in an appropriate time frame we hope that the contractor will complete the construction in June 2024 the construction estimate including the five percent contingency contingency will take the project to fifteen point six million dollars and those the funding sources for that cost estimate will come from water impact fees and the project water project funds CO's the staff recommend recommends the adoption of the ordinance authorizing the approval of the contract between the city of Denton and Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC for the construction of the Northwest Water Transmission main project the contract is not to exceed fifty million dollars six hundred and fourteen thousand two hundred ninety one dollars and seventy cents I'll open it to any questions that you might have Lee got one I have one question Mountain Cascade of they work with the city before and what are the results been it is my understanding that they have and are working with the city and on the results that they've had I will leave it up to Kyle I'm just curious if we've had good experience with them in the past yes they are the low bid which is always helpful but well I'm fairly new to the city so Kyle will have the historical information Lee that company took over for the bankrupt that's the discussion I was having Christine sidebar which was they took over the construction the utility construction only Bonnie Bray when the other company would bankrupt so they came in and worked for the bonding company correct they took over yes so it was North South Water phase three after that project defaulted Mountain Cascade took it over we had good results with them there and then they also delivered Hickory Creek interceptor the sewer interceptor the phase two and had good results with them there as well well thank you I always worry about this because this is kind of demanding work and you know when a contractor is low and substantially low to the height you know to the high from the range I was I'll always look at that I guess makes me nervous we've already had good results and I just was curious so thank you I did want to say one thing if this one actually was we did that pre-qualified and then the IFB portion so capital projects has really focused on doing that pre-qualified so we're not just going with low bid contracting so was this a best value bidder was it just they issued they did the pre-qualified and then issued for the bidding it was it was a once it was pre-qualified then it was just a little better at that point correct right so it was because this has a tech stock portion this falls under the pre-qualified list we put together for the tech stock utility relocations along I-35 so with that RFQ we graded the submissions to to limit that list to three bidders all larger utility relocation you know companies with focus on utility relocation so we graded their qualifications prior to this and then due to text that regulations that has to be IFB after that on that pre-qualified list well that's next one thank you seems there's no more questions for you guys thank you very much for your time entertain a motion second motion the second all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed sign the same we're going to be using dog management reports I read that whole sentence thank you that was great management we have a good morning we have a couple different items for the board's consideration this morning and and respective staff here to answer any questions through the management report section the first item is the electric the Den energy center August 2022 dashboard we have Cassie Ogden here chief financial officer if there are any questions about that report questions we can move on okay seeing now we'll move to item two which is the water utility annual payments we have moved these to a delegated authority where there's any payments that we are making to TCEQ things like that that they have authority to go ahead and issue those so this is a report of the reports that they had made annually to those entities and we have Stephen gay here I just want if there's any questions yeah okay we're good okay the third item today is your future agenda items we have a couple that have been on here so it looks like a pub officer election Grissom lift station cost participation agreement and the FY 22 23 electric budget rates both of those are scheduled to come before you on the January 9th pub meeting and the second one that's been on there for a while but it looks like it will come before you all in January is the green sense incentive program update okay and we do not have a meeting another meeting this month correct correct okay good deal okay and you're the last item is is any new business action items that you all would like to have on a future agenda anyone got anything in mind race raise a little hell and Lee all right well I don't know if this is a future agenda item I did take a look at the report we received from council on the lawsuit I didn't have time to read all hundred and twenty one pages but I would be curious to know and maybe we need to do it in closed session but I would be curious to know what that lawsuit what its impact is on the city of Denton because it appeared to be a lawsuit against her cot and I was confused about our angle we need to take that into closed session but we can we can take that back and I don't know that's a future item or something we could do today or idea it'd need to be something we do in the future in the future okay then I would like to add it to the future agenda okay we'll get that added and we'll see which meeting in January we can get that prepared for and go ahead and add it on the agenda as a closed session item thank you please just the only curmudgeon over here okay so we'll move on to number four concluding items we have a work session here we see report hold a discussion and give staff direction on the development of a comprehensive diversion ordinance for the city of Denton this is pub 22-195 who's that that's you that's me and your name is Tammy causing assistant director for solid waste and recycling all right Tammy good morning so do y'all know that do you remember the movie in the 1970s some of us will remember Benji the dog you know I'm talking about it was filmed in this building when he breaks into and starts running around okay I'm full of useless information all right well good morning did you watch Yellowstone the other night the guy on stage Isaac Hoskins where does he live did in Texas plays a dance all the time yeah he played at the governor's inauguration ball I'll think it's okay today we're going to be talking introducing a concept for a comprehensive diversion ordinance we'll be reviewing the comprehensive solid waste management strategy thank you so we'll be talking a little bit about what the ordinance key elements are as a reminder the city of Denton is the sole provider for all trash services both on the residential side and the commercial sector we are an open market for commercial recycling of programmatic materials and we service residential for programmatic materials programmatic materials are anything in our recycling contract cardboard plastics one through seven glass steel cans and aluminum cans non-programmatic materials or items like textiles plastic film anything that can be diverted that's not in our contract an open market for our commercial sector is the customers can contract with the city of Denton or they can hire a third-party contractor currently the landfill has roughly 34 years of lifespan left at the current rate of tonnage accepted annually showcasing how important it is to divert as many materials as possible and then we'll be talking about directions and next steps our comprehensive solid waste management strategy was adopted in July of 2022 it serves as a guide for the city's future solid waste materials management system regarding infrastructure programs and policies one of the key findings from this comprehensive solid waste management strategy was the opportunity in the multifamily and commercial sector to divert more materials because we're talking about multifamily today it's important that we talk about how the recycling centers at the landfill in North Lakes were established to provide apartment residents without on-site property access to recycling a place to recycle currently 43% of the users of these two recycling centers are non-city or for our non-city of Denton residents we did ask to permanently close North Lakes at our council meeting but we were given direction not to so this slide we're no longer asking for directions but I wanted to share with you yes 43% of the users are non-city so back in July when there was a temporary closure we opened the landfill we advertised for people to come to the landfill and we were taking their address we were asking where they came from so it was a six week period that we took that data from thank you and this is the fun part we start getting into the metrics that helped us decide on bringing this proposal for a comprehensive diversion ordinance last year solid waste and recycling hauled 93,013 tons of commercial trash and recycling of that 90,565 was trash 2,448 tons was recycling giving us a 3% diversion rate the city of Denton has 2,835 commercial trash customers of that 484 of those customers recycle with the city of Denton giving us a 17% participation rate the caveat here is that the above data only captures city of Denton customers it doesn't capture our open market with the third party what this data is telling us is that we have an opportunity to increase diversion rate and also increase the participation rate one by having all commercial entities recycle and also capturing data from the third party recyclers as well as those commercial entities that are that have in-house diversion efforts like the Peterbilts and the Tetrapex who are diverting materials that aren't in our program Burns and McDonald our contractor for comprehensive solid waste me yes quick question you mentioned about getting data from third parties how would we go about obtaining that information so part of the ordinance will be requiring on a quarterly basis for them to send us their quarterly tonnages so we'll be tracking it that way well that's interesting I have to ponder that thank you the recycling portion which is a very small amount there obviously what is that generally what are those recycled products what is it we're receiving cardboard paper glass yes so our program is cardboard plastics one through seven steel cans aluminum cans glass and if you're not going to get to this I'm going to ask it right now and you if you are then we can stop and move on but your recycled products that you're taking for paving products are you not taking paving products anymore no we're not okay so I want to point out the city of did not allow recycled products in their asphalt or concrete but if their goal is to go into having to quit putting what we're putting in the in the landfill it's a it's a bad move places up north they recycle 30 to 40 percent asphalt in their in their asphalt part of the comprehensive solid waste management strategy is to be able to identify those other recycling streams today we're just talking about programmatic materials and then getting the data from this getting that out there's not even your department that's engineering in design is what I'm concerned with and I think that people just they don't they don't recycle as faults because they don't understand how to do it and that's the only move so I agree yes anyway I know on the top of the recycle bin it has what can be recycled that wears off and I get a lot of I get a significant number of questions of what can you recycle and we could do a really better job perhaps in putting out there for people to know what exactly can be recycled and what cannot like I understand a pizza box you can't recycle a pizza box because it's had food in it but maybe we might do a little education and where do I send people to say oh there's a list here for you to get so that you'll know what you can recycle yeah so we do have the waste wizard online so you can go online go to our waste wizard and type in whatever item is that you're curious about if we can recycle and it'll tell you if we can in our our current program or if we can't or it also gives up options of where you can take it I believe and we are as we're doing field audits the team both in public outreach and our team in solid waste whenever they go to a container if the sticker is outdated and you can't see it they are replacing them as they come up to those containers so they've run into some very outdated and old stickers and we're replacing them with clearer messages thank you get information in the city of didn't newsletter that goes out once a month but you stick that kind of information in that newsletter periodically not every time but yeah I think we do it at when we do rate changes and we're trying to do it quarterly or whenever there's a an opportunity so quarterly if we were doing it quarterly yeah if people read their mail like they should be okay so during this waste characterization study that burns a McDonald did it was a small snapshot in time it was done over two days with three multifamily customers and eight commercial customers and it told a very significant story there was also a larger waste characterization study done for all of North Texas which validated that small snapshot in time for us and what it did is it analyzed what the trash was so it didn't come they took what was encompassed in there and kind of divided up into different categories and what the data showed us from that small snapshot was that 42 percent of the multifamily trash was made up of programmatic recycled materials and in the the trash for commercial for that sample is 55 percent was programmatic material so find that please programmatic material it's glass cardboard plastics one through seven stuff I just said right okay so what this what this opportunity is telling us is of the previous slides 90,000 tons of trash 42 to 55 percent of it is made up of programmatic recyclable material that could have been diverted but unfortunately it was sent to the landfill that's education well if you don't mind me asking what are plastics one through seven so that that's one of the the tricky things it's important to look at what you're throwing away and it if you see the recycling symbol it'll tell a number in there so plastic jugs melt cartons those type of items basically every hard plastic except styrofoam and films film so feel like wrap oh okay container hard plastic container does not have a recycle local it's still recyclable it's it's a number seven at that point with Starfield is dead right well my apologies for the interruption I'm saying maybe they don't want to maybe they don't want the unlabeled sevens but but basically almost all hard plastics are if you if you look at the stickers that are newer it'll show you pictures of what we take in there and it's a little easier if you can see it on the picture versus just one through seven but it's a jug or some sort of container that holds something okay thank you interesting another metric we like to track is recycling contamination this allows for our recycling stream to be of its highest quality so we can maximize the opportunities there you can see I think Brian's told us over and over again if it's a little bit contaminated it's all contaminated right you just don't even mess with it at that point you know so with the gray line here you can see that our fiscal year 22 23 we set an annual goal goal for contamination to be 41% with the blue line you can see that for fiscal year 21 22 we had had an annual average of 41% which was 14% below last year you can see with the orange dot and the red arrow that our October commercial contamination rate was 43% I want to point out that our annual goal was set this year during budget season so we were averaging 43% and if you can see April May and June we were significantly higher than that we weren't quite sure where we were going to end up for the year we had implemented a pilot program with our multifamily and commercial containers where we implemented shoot lids and locking devices which significantly lowered our contamination we weren't sure when we were going to be able to clear the lids so we weren't sure how that was going to affect our annual goal we are slated right now for February to install half of our containers with those shoot lids and locking devices and then hopefully the remainder by summer time so now that excuse me but I would imply that if you're wanting to lock those commercial containers that they're getting stuff from outside the commercial enterprise is that the implication illegal dumping mostly so when they're they're not locked people drive by and there they see a container and they just throw trash in there or donation type items so with the locking bar and the shoot lid it restricts the amount the different types of non-programmatic material one of the things we've got to remember is when we're talking about the shoot lids and the locks most of that applies to our multifamily which is also considered a commercial entity pursuant to our collection device so from a regular commercial you know entity out back of the of the warehouse we don't see much contamination that they do a fairly decent job of keeping it clean but your apartments basically any port in a storm if I have to take 20 steps to the garbage but it's five steps to the recycle container where does it go so by putting the restrictor lids and the locking devices on there it forces the person take those few extra steps to put the garbage where it has to go okay well that makes more sense from the comment I was concerned that we had lots of people dumping in behind the warehouse containers and we do but we we do but but again it's the illegal dumping in and around the garbage containers that we see in the in the truly commercial entities okay thank you very much for clarification so the key elements of the proposal today is requiring all commercial entities to implement a diversion recycling plan program requirements from the customers will be to submit on an annual basis a diversion plan we hope to have this online so that it's just a quick form for them to be filling out the choices of diversion of programmatic materials will be to contract with the city of Denton or a third party the choices for non-programmatic materials will be to contract with a third party or to perform in-house requirements from a third party diversion vendor or in-house programs will be one to obtain a permit with the city which we already have implemented we do plan on extending that to donation bins so we can help track get a contact for a local contact and help keep those areas clean as well as track get the data from the tonnage of what's being diverted and then send quarterly diversion tonnages to the city we have the development timeline will be 18 months we plan to have a draft ordinance completed in January with full implementation completed by June of 2024 along with extensive public outreach and education throughout the 18 months and beyond our next steps for today are to get discussion and feedback from you all and receive direction to create the comprehensive diversion ordinance where we have all commercial and multifamily units required to have a diversion plan the permitting and reporting requirements from all third-party providers and the implementation schedule we don't need support of the closure since we've gotten that direction already questions and I think mine you might have answered this for me just so I'm clear on problematic materials like glass and plastic even if it's got a label on it we don't it can go in and recycle yes the label is fine they can take that off during the process I mean where we can we should yeah what what what they want is they don't want if you have like a can of dog food if it's half full of dog food they don't want the dog food in there still so rinsing it out is important the labels are not that important no what about the lid the lid on the plastic bottle or the metal lid on the glass so they prefer the lid to be intact into it it helps push it through the assembly line so having that lid yeah what it does what has been found out here recently let's take a water bottle if you have the lid off and it goes through the compactors and everything basically it becomes a two-dimensional object and the sorters read it as paper so it goes off onto the paper line by keeping the lid off on it it creates a third dimension it allows it to be sorted correctly and goes into the the plastic line okay wow that's it's hard enough that it doesn't get crushed yeah that's unusual okay I have a question and maybe council would be better person to answer it what authority does the city have to require third parties to permit and report which is one of the things that the ordinance appears to be asking for under the Texas health and safety code which I believe is item subsection 361 362 363 the City Council does have the authority to find what its solid waste program is as well as any permitting or franchising of outside vendors so as part of that it's implied and I think it's been held up in court that if reports are required back then we will then that that upholds so we have that authority okay I was not aware of that part of the code any comment I completely understand the purpose of that please don't I'm just curious about the legal authority to require the reporting and permitting yeah so in addition to Brian statute we are a home rule city and as a home rule city unless there is a specific removal of a power via a statute or a legislative action we generally have the ability to regulate within that space because we are a home rule city so this would also come from our ability as a home rule city to regulate our kind of activities within our city limits well thank you both appreciate it yeah so I think the plan I think it needs more detail for of course for us to recommend it but I think this this idea of increasing commercial recycling you know it's been talked about for 20 years yeah and if we can get a an implementable plan to encourage it if you get half of that diversion get an extra 20,000 tons of year a year recycled versus landfill that's a that's a lot of landfill space that's a lot of value that you know some recycling basically cost money to recycle cardboard and plastic cardboard and paper are pretty high value and actually have a commodity value make that make them beneficial to recycle and lots of businesses they're throwing away packing and they're throwing away paper if it's gotten off if it is an office or it has an office in it they have a ton of paper and cardboard recycling so I think that's those are obvious high value instead of putting a valuable commodity in the landfill you know we should we should be able to have a lot of diversion from these programs I think the key is decreasing the friction I think there are a few a handful of really key items one of them is is decreasing the friction to recycle very few people are opposed to recycling they just it's it's the easier choice it's five steps versus 20 it's I don't have like this building was built in 1962 and there's room for one dumpster that or or other things that increase the friction to to recycle so I think the key in actually achieving these goals will be innovation and implementation that you know cities some cities in urban areas have created have started using really small rolling dumpsters and they're kind of like a trash bin but they're like six feet long and the business rolls them back into the little storage area or the alley and then they roll them out on trash day and put them on the curb and you know something like that where you don't have you make room for dumpsters where dumpsters no trash truck could fit down that alley there's no place to you can't put a dumpster in front of your prime parking you know on the square but things like large bins rolling dumpsters much smaller dumpsters at side load the city of Denton eliminated side load dumpsters for fleet maintenance goals side load dumpsters the truck doesn't have to pull straight in they can pull up to the side so that means you can have a lot more parking configurations where you can have a dumpster just off the drive area but it does increase fleet maintenance because you have to have two types of trucks and you have to and those smaller dumpsters carry less stuff so you have to make more pickups there are another implement obvious implementation thing is education Denton has a more transient population than a lot of cities we have a lot of college students moving in a lot of professionals moving in a lot of college students ex-college students moving out you know so back with their parents yeah so I got one right now and so this education isn't like oh we educated that house three years ago five years ago it's what is it 60 percent of all units in in Denton are rentals and so 10 or 20 percent of those a year are new to Denton and so it's one thing to have a letter a year to a rate payer about what what's recyclable but that's that's half of those three-quarters of those are probably going to be recycled before they're opened you know so the more opportunity for education on you know what's programmatic in Denton the better I I think the the diversion plan like we're requiring all customers to have a diversion plan that's interesting I I do worry about the very small businesses or the very small like we barely have a dumpster we're on the once a week pick up and it's a quarter full and I don't know if you're going to have boiler and now this is an opera like this is an opportunity for bureaucratic pain and angering a customer or an opportunity for education where you almost have a well here's your very small business pre-made diversion plan and let's go through it real quick and show you here's some you know all you have to do is agree to this plan and and here's how what you can divert right it's an opportunity to teach people to divert and it's as opposed to here's a you must file a 20 page plan that covers these you know 17 points and you must have annual metrics and you know for a one or two person business that's not viable yeah so if they're if they're using the city of Denton they won't need to report how much time is there because we'll have all that data for the the smaller businesses if they only need a cart we can easily give them a cart and put them on so you said give them a cart well sign them up for cart services what is the charge for a cart most of our at my office most of our our paper is recycled through the shredder anyway so it doesn't really make any difference and they they probably sell that and make a good living off of the shredded paper today yeah okay but curious what is it $33 a month give me six well and to that end if you have like iron mountain come in and shred your paper that is your third party recycler right so again all it is is getting the number back to us you know a lot of this you talk about pain points and pressure points we recognize there's gonna be de minimis amounts and again that'll be a checkbox so we can go out and audit and work with those communities probably half of the customers out there already have some sort of diversion plan going in place whether it be cardboard or plastic like tetra like right now Peterbilt is essentially a zero waste facility we do not collect garbage from them everything goes back to some other source we don't recognize that number so getting that data in same thing with tetra packs so it's data mining and really so when you when you start chopping off these people that are already doing it all we're looking at reporting it's a very small subset of what we're doing that we actually have to integrate and implement programs within and whether it be a programmatic material that goes to Pratt or to something else or a non-programmatic material that we partner with some sort of third party and create that economic incentive or that economic development opportunity to bring in a concrete recycler a textile recycler some you know some other type of facility that will manage that material then it's a win-win for the city of Denton. You know I think Devin's got some really good ideas and good points and kind of made me think a little bit but you guys always do of course this is what you do for a living appreciate that it's maybe something that needs to go further to the council and yeah maybe get them to get a subcommittee with somebody like you on it folks well I mean I appreciate it I really do well and you know and I'm just kind of throwing out ideas and the risks of how like these five bullet points how they could go astray and so I think the key here is that implementation and I think in the past maybe that the Solid Waste Department hasn't had as much support as it needed necessarily to I mean it's institutional change in Solid Waste it's institutional change in other city departments kind of the you know walk the walk in maybe city engineering things like that and and it's also willingness to of like boards and City Council to support these initiatives so you know I wholeheartedly support obvious low-hanging fruit of let's there's 40,000 tons of divertable waste that's not being diverted because it's just a little too hard or people don't even know or you know we've always done it this way you know those are the things that we could we get half that number overnight and yeah like you said Peterbilt Tetra Pak employers with 500 or a thousand people they already have a plan all they all you have to do is like once a year they send you their spreadsheet you know so we had recycling in Denton for 20 years remember when they started in the schools with the children I mean what about a Denton ISD what's your name that was the dinosaur and you start with the kids and the kids start bugging their parents about it yeah Serena Serena Serena anyway she was the she called herself the trash lady she was kids could be full of personality but go to the elementary schools and start trying to well and we've recently redone or retooled our sustainable schools program only because you know as you stated our program our city of Denton program is 20 years old yeah our program our sustainable school is 20 years old and because of innovation and just the market and everything else we've had to upgrade it and as a result we're getting much cleaner material from schools I was on the PUB when we passed that and when we sold that to people people were just pissed off about it and you know now it's just a part of our lives right I mean we recycle and we well yeah and what's interesting last week I spent four days in San Diego at WasteCon which is basically all the solid waste professionals of all municipalities in North America getting together talking trash a bunch of garbage what's interesting you get 1,200 people in the same room and somebody says recycling and then the arguments start because again from a programmatic standpoint our program doesn't take glass it's not recyclable we don't take plastic so again that's why you know we're here at the city of Denton we're really working hard to change the vernacular we talk about recycling but we talk about the programmatic piece of it programmatic recycling so you know it's within our program and then we talk about third-party recycling to create this diversionary number so you know it's it's it's continual so well you guys you guys keep doing better I'm just almost I'm gonna go back to old school again 20 years ago we asked what's the life span of our landfill they said 26 years yeah that was 20 years ago now we're saying 34 so yeah we're getting better Brian's doing good his people are doing a great job have a wonderful team that that helps get us that's an admirable it really is really good you guys are doing great work thank you anymore this chairman we supposed to take any action on this I think Devin could go on for hours I wasn't talking about more talk I don't think there's any action required for this one so they did take it forward to council already and received direction to go ahead and start building that comprehensive ordinance so it will come back to PB once they have more of the specifics and the ordinance drafted and then go on to council as well sounds good thank you Tammy great presentation anybody else I usually make the motion but I'm gonna let somebody else do it today Larry Beck and he moved to adjourn fourths we are done Merry Christmas