Nov 15, 2022 City Council on 2022-11-15 11:30 AM (Special Called Meeting with Denton Housing Authority Board of Commissioners)

You know, good stuff. All right. So it is 1135 and we do have a forum today is so and I think I got to give the cameras a second but so it's November 15 1135 joint meeting with the housing authority board and didn't see the council in it's the 1135 I call our meeting to order and turn it over to the chair of the house and it's at 1135 I open up the board meeting for the city of the board of commissioners great and so with that what I'm gonna do is just call all the items first but and then I'll turn to count on what so just so it's ID two two one eight two three receiver report whole discussion regarding an update to the housing strategy and then there's item B ID two two one eight two four receiver report whole discussion regarding the city of Denton's and didn't housing authority priorities and then item C which is ID two two one eight two five receiver report whole discussion and give staff direction regarding future areas of collaboration partnership Councilor Wark? Yes, Mayor and board members of DHA I'm gonna recuse myself because I am a participant of the landlord program and I do have tenants that are participating in the discussion so I hope you guys have a very fruitful conversation. Thank you. Okay very good yes thank you we'll see you at four. Okay so then I will turn it over to whoever's starting with item A and then the way it'll flow is we'll go city the city of Denton's presentation and then there's a slide placeholder for the housing authority then we'll take on any questions kind of as we go through each one but it's pre-flow discussion so if you have questions kind of find a good break and get recognized we'll go from there. Mayor, council, chair, commissioners, thanks for coming today. As he said we're going to go through presentation and we're going to talk a little bit about what the city's current programs are. DHA will come in and talk about their current programs and then we'll end with an overview of the current general affordable housing strategic tool kit to review and then discussion. And just a quick overview we do have programs that the city does currently operate one of those is our homebuyer assistance program So that's a program where an individual who is looking to be a first-time homebuyer and receive assistance with down payment and closing costs up to $40,000 to help them with the purchase of a home. We have our home repair program So when someone has an issue with their home and in order to help preserve that and make sure that home is safe and stable They can come in and if they qualify then they're eligible for assistance with minor repairs or major repairs to their home Again to make sure that home stays safe and stable for them for the long term. So it does preserve affordable housing We also offer grants and within those grants. There are some nonprofits who receive Funding to help with rental assistance or other housing assistance programs as well and then within those social service grants as you all are aware we have a significant commitment from Council on our homelessness initiatives one of those it's just about finished up and it's very exciting is the Luke 28 Building which will be 34,000 square feet of one-stop shop assistance for people who are experiencing homelessness or at risk That is currently gotten at CEO which is very exciting our temporary CEO and then we will begin operations around in December Within that we also have some other flexible funding assistance programs the barriers fund Council is allocated eighty thousand dollars, which is a flexible funding source for people who are needing assistance Just either retain housing quickly obtain how many quickly or retain housing that they're in so preventing their homelessness And then on our website, we do have an affordable housing list So your properties properties owned by the debt and affordable housing corporate others that are considered affordable We have a GIS map and a list of those properties. So if people are looking for affordable units They have a list to go to first to see if there any property is available to them for rental And then also as a recipient of entitlement funds for CDBG and home We do administer a fair housing which is to just help people if they have a fair housing complaint in the community by referring them To have been helping them apply the complaint if there's a fair housing We also work around housing safety community services So most of you will know it as code enforcement We thought community improvement services, but we have a property maintenance program Or we can go out and make sure that how houses and properties are safe and stable in the neighborhoods that they are in We have a rental inspection program So for folks who are in a rental unit and the landlord isn't making those necessary repairs they can reach out to us We have inspectors who will go out Communicate with that landlord and help make sure those repairs are done in a timely manner So that any individuals who are in rental units have safe stable housing as well We also have a graffiti abatement program. It's not really about affordability But I did want to share it because it is important about retaining and preserving housing that's high quality So that program is free. So if someone has graffiti that's happened on their property They can reach out to us fill out a form We abate it for them for free If they don't then we have to do the code violation process and then abate it and then charge them for it So we do have that graffiti program as well and then finally Within the context specifically around affordable housing council is allocated funding for a development fee grant So those of you like DHA as a developer or didn't housing Didn't affordable housing corporation habitat for humanity if they are developing affordable housing units single units like single residential units We have a grant they can help offset the cost of the city charges for those development fees and impact fees And then we also give grants to our nonprofit developers so DHA is a recipient currently of $200,000 to help Renovate and repair a housing unit that they have Habitat for humanity the same we've allocated funding to them for the development of units in their current project in the village with the housing tax program That's a program where developers who are interested in developing affordable housing and are also seeking tax credits from the state Can come out come to us seek a request or a resolution from support or no objection We've heard through that process with them and help them get that Resolution if it's an eligible project and then you all approve it that gives them additional points to help them with those funding requests from the state And then we'll talk about it after DHA does their section But we do have our housing affordability toolkit that will kind of go through with you again Just to make sure this was approved by Council on February and so we're just going to go through that again one time Just so everyone's on the same page before we internet our discussions. So with that I'll turn it over to DHA Thank you I'm Beverly Brian. I'm the chair. I have my vice chair Diane Baker I have cat Jones. I have David and I have And so one of the things that we wanted to do this meeting was people are first of all Thank you guys for inviting us out and including us on this On this road to create more affordable housing DHA has continued its mission and goals of providing affordable housing for this community with our current voucher program we currently have a priority to help our seniors without displacing the seniors We recognize that we will have developers that will come to us with deals and every deal won't work Which is great that you guys are starting a PFC because it may work for you guys Still provide affordable housing We currently have our house new choice voucher program We have a waiting list with 14,000 applicants on it now, and it is currently closed We have been able to increase the housing choice voucher program to a total of 35 vouchers including some special programs that we have such as the mainstream We have bad issues for veterans to help assist veterans housing. We have a homeownership program We have emergency housing vouchers tenant protection and enhanced vouchers and a fair share housing program and We have since 2016. I had to get this written down because we have done so well as a housing authority with just creating more affordable units 2016 we had 314 units with three properties And we've increased that to one thousand two hundred and eighty five units at six properties We have two new developments that we have approved for an additional four hundred and seventy one units And we are in discussion with other developers for approximately nine hundred more units So within the next two to three years, we can have approximately 2653 and 50 units the next two to three years So we're pretty busy over there We also have provided $200,000 in its non-federal funds Fund local agencies for services such as low-income families in the community These condoms are used to provide temporary to permanent supportive housing for homeless or at risk homeless individuals security deposits application fees job training programs child care assistance and scholarship proceedings So DHA welcomes new interests and strategies I Can't questions on our end And this was the first segment around Just strategies Would you take a moment and let us introduce ourselves if you would mind because I don't think everyone knows everyone from all the sides, okay Sure, go right ahead Starting with the councilmember McGee and swing around trying to chase the gate place five right in the back, please - Jesse Davis district three And customer watches steps. They were queues and in myself drew up that's with mayor and Then you had extra Yes So As we talked about starting in 2019 We went out with a consultant and looked at what our assessment is of needs and for affordable housing Second phase of that was to come in and look at a real strategic toolkit that we could utilize Solutions for how we address affordable issues in the community with that council approved this toolkit in February of this year and we Gone through the process of getting funding for some of the strategies going forward for the next year and then coming years after that I didn't want to just give a brief overview of what the strategies are Kind of go through some of the activities that we're looking at especially in the near term So just to remind everyone where we're at. So the five strategies are around these on the slides You'll see Infill is really about leveraging those vacant and underutilized properties and making sure that we have the ability to add new affordability by using those properties more effectively towards housing our zoning relief and variances will be work that we'll be doing to just look at our zoning codes to make sure they're They're helpful and in the development process especially around creating new and unique types of housing types that we want to look at to make sure we don't just have one type of housing in the community and that we create housing that does allow for affordability for low-income families Increasing capacity and resources really about obviously we receive funding already from the federal government through CDBG and home But those funds are pretty limited. We're not a large community And so how we maximize those funds is going to be important part of that conversation But also how we build up the resources in our community. So increasing our funding increasing incentives helping build up our nonprofit provider so that we either have more or Expanded the ability of our nonprofit providers to provide more housing and the community is important part of this goal Of course preservation. That's the space when I shared with you all the things that we do That's really the space that we're in right now. We do a lot around preserving affordability with its assistance or creating more home buyers those things but preserving is really making sure we don't Encourage displacement with anything that we're doing that we're making sure that we protect the neighbors where they exist and preserve the housing that exists now as well and then increasing access to information that's not just to people who need affordable housing, but also helping our Development community and our nonprofit developers know how to work within our system So that they it does reduce some of those costs and help them develop having more efficiently and effectively Which means cheaper so that we can create affordability Right now you can see on the slides where where those five strategies fit in the activities within them And what you're seeing here is we've bolded what you all have funded in this next cycle of funding And then those that are highlighted we are going to try to do in-house. They didn't get funded through the supplemental packages We've had over 500,000 requests and so we understand not everything can be funded So we're gonna we're gonna try to be creative and fund those things in high or work through those highlighted sections in our division as well this year, so when we look at strategy one and Developing a small home community and developing an ADU program So we've already done a lot of work with development services to understand what our ADU Zoning looks like and it's really it's really good. It's going to be really helpful So what we'll do with this part of the funding is to look at a package that will help people incentivize ADU development in our community and then Small home community as well So we're gonna really get creative and go to a consultant try to get both of those done at once But we're very excited about the opportunity to really build programs out that will help people With incentives to develop these and also just again working through our program The developer affordable incentive package. That's another big one for us and Starts with what you guys have already approved now with the PFC We're going to start with developing that program and then incorporate it into this bigger package of developer incentives Most of you know these language like density bonuses. How do we look at parking requirements? How do we look at space requirements on properties and those kinds of things? So that will be a part of that conversation there and Then the rental repair program. We're already working through that that one's almost complete, but we did hear a lot of feedback from council during the retreat So we did take that back and we're looking at some improvements in that to make sure it's really creating affordable housing and not just Not just retaining it and then with the three these these three are kind of core strategies are kind of foundational So we do need them But our goal is to make sure that we look at how we create a visual map of what's what's appropriate for development in this space One so that's easy to access and you know how to Encourage people to develop it but also then creating potentially affordable housing overlay districts Which would then create some incentives within those overlays much like we already do in our current development code The rest of the items that are not highlighted are additional activities and strategies So we are looking at when I talked about helping build up our nonprofit community and their developers looking at grants that may go out to those folks so that they can expand the programs they're offering and be stronger in that development space of Predevelopment financing is a program where we would actually put money on the table It would allow people to access low interest loans and be able to then utilize that for bringing down the cost of development in exchange for affordability the low-income Homeownership program with Denton Housing Authority that we come right out of the toolkit and we've had conversations early on even before the toolkit was developed Because DHA does have a home ownership program and there might be a way for us to leverage our Tools together to make sure that folks who are in the voucher program have access to a potential home ownership property And then it would allow more people to be in entering into the voucher program where you have a wait list The housing trust that could be a community land trust housing trust But looking at how we preserve those units that are created and ensure that they stay affordable even long term So if the person who bought the home leaves the home that there's an opportunity to retain that home is affordable when they move on There's also a couple of other programs similar to what we already do in the toolkit Which is that home ownership program assistance where we're helping with down payment and closing costs There was there's some strategy in here that we're looking at that we can encourage both our employees in our own organization but also work with large employers in the community like a Peter built or you know Sally that wants to bring employees in or a new new corporation that comes in to help use that to Encourage great economic development in our community as well as ensure there is affordable housing for all the folks who might be working for those organizations And land banking is another one and that's an important one We are starting to grow and we are starting to see smaller amounts of land available So making sure we have a way to invest in land so we can bank that land for future affordable housing development 10 years out 15 years out as well And then again, we talked about it increasing access to information It's not just it's not just people looking for housing but also landlords also Developers, how do we better educate about affordability in the community? So examples include doing education with landlords to open more doors to people on the housing choice voucher program The interactive mapping tool that we talked about earlier and then additional education on housing choice voucher program So those are kind of the three where we see the most opportunity for collaboration with the housing authority based on the toolkit as well This is just an overview slide of what our plans are mentioned the bolded and highlighted items we're looking forward to Implementing that I'm very excited that we have our new housing programs coordinator our second day in labeling that you'll probably hear a lot more from her We'll be planning to do the projects based on this timeline Clearing house Would be helpful for the future to think about having a clearing house where everybody is Together in one thing and we know what the other one is doing all the time if we're gonna be working together or This is is this your thing and we do our thing. That's not what this is, right? No, that's not and so not using your language clean house But it is in our goal to bring back an affordable housing task force so that we're all meeting together on a regular basis as we start to the very start of this implementation the net and it'll grow as We develop including when I talked about like the the the trust fund thing I think that's probably something we're going to need to be much more collaborative that it's not something the city should or is Wanting to do but collaboratively is something that we should look at as a community So I think there's definitely opportunities for that was like a clearing out. Yes, so we all know what we're doing We're not stepping on each other and we can help the citizens more with what everybody has to direct them in the right place Yes, thank you Any other questions? May I pretend so the commissioner. Thank you. Mr. Mary the the commissioner and I'm sorry. I've already forgotten your name. I apologize your sides facing the other direction but she brought up a point of this collaborative effort and So I wonder I'd love to hear feedback from the commissioners when it's appropriate either now or later as to For these particular strategies, which ones? You know, you're strongly in agreement with and that matches the things that you've seen and interact with and which ones you think You know our priorities might have missed missed the mark or we we overlook something so I'd love to hear you the commissioners views on On this set of priorities and the way we prioritized If that and whatever time frame you to want to do Yeah, no if there's anyone that I Why can't speak for you? Yes, well one of the things that really stuck out to me was the low-income homeownership program with the didn't housing authority I That's near and dear to my heart So I definitely am interested in seeing how we can collaborate and make that, you know One of the good priority for the program and also educating the landlords about the housing voucher program But that's the thing that we run into is a lot of landlords don't want to accept the house and vouchers And so the more education we can provide I think it'll just create better opportunities for the community Those are the two that really stuck out I don't know if it's on there but Since I've been on a committee for two years I've learned a lot a lot of things that I realize that developers are coming into debt my crazy I mean just all over what what miss what Matt? I think that we've been very good about trying to protect our people from any developer that comes in making sure that they are they are we get we agree with where they're going to be and not in the truck stop or you know Or something like that to where they're proud of where they would be they can get to the food in the hospitals and the fire trucks can get to them and So we spent a lot of time talking and going out to the site and Listening and and then coming up with a plan. Would you like to live there? That's the question We always ask would you like to live there? Would you like your mother or your grandmother to live there and that's very important? to our state of things Okay Anyone else in the thoughts Okay, any questions from council on a different top Councilman Davis. Yeah, so I Appreciate that you mentioned kind of in your opening remarks One of the things the council is looking at the city is looking at is a public financing corporations Just something we've been discussing and you you mentioned that Some of these development deals are good fit for DHA and they're just something y'all want to get involved in a deal that you can Work and fits your priorities some of the things that you're talking about Can you give us an example of something that wouldn't necessarily fit with the H a something that would And I don't mean an existing project I mean just something that would not necessarily that a developer might want to bring along it wouldn't necessarily fit with Y'all's priorities or some of the things that you look at when you're when you're vetting these deals I'll let I'll let our attorney speak to that when she's better at it to be Thank You madam chair mayor Councilmember I'm Maddie Jones. I'm with Codes Rose law firm and I'm counsel for the Housing Authority and it's affiliates so one of the things that the Housing Authority looks at is location and they can sure that the property is one that they want to be associated with because it is a ownership of the asset so that's one of the things that they look at I know that Commissioners have driven out to size and look at traffic. They look at they bring assets and those types of things even though there is some appreciation for the Financial partners and equity capital markets and how they also are betting so there is some sense of assurances that if the financial markets are underwriting deals and there's some sense of Betting but notwithstanding that the Housing Authority still goes through the process to look at location The size of the units and those things that are important to the families that would be their clientele Are y'all always looking at a co-ownership situation or are there deals that y'all have considered? I mean, that's a bad way to put it because again, I don't want to make it about any particular deals kind of talking to abstract Are there are there deal structures that y'all? would consider that don't involve co-ownership that are a I Don't want to call it paper partnership because it's more than that But where DHA is the is the vehicle to the finance the the tax incentives essentially that are available to some of the developers But you're not necessarily a co-owner or operating or a programmatically at all involved in the property So to give the tax exemption by statute, there's a certain role that the governmental entity has to Serve and that role puts you in the ownership minimally is a brown lessor or In the role with inclusion of the GP So the affiliate entity serves in the role is the sole member of the general partner or managing member and that's the core Foundation to get the tax exemption for the purposes of really the interest in the partnership so that gets us more than just kind of a Arms length partner because we have to do that to bring the tax exemption to the project sure and that's I'm gonna get my percentages back Okay, four percent to nine percent Which one which one is that that requires y'all co-ownership or at least a ground lease? So you've got two major initiatives. The first initiative is the 50 below 80 50 percent market That is what the market is now calling PFC because that's the statute that Gets you the exemption for that 50/50 and the four percent nine percent is the low-income housing tax credit program So that program also if there is to be an exemption The governmental entity would have to be in the ownership. So there is some Movement on that in the legal world, but heretofore. It's been ground lease and sole member of GP So more the special limited member. You can be the special limited member as well. All right, so y'alls And I'll kind of be abstract I guess but again, I'm not trying to type any particular deal or deal structure, but When y'all are vetting these projects is an example of the list just gave us of a project that is just not it doesn't meet your threshold it's something that's not that you don't fit think fits your priorities or best fits your structure or Resources or is there anything on that spectrum of different options for development? It just doesn't fall in DHAs wheelhouse or that you don't feel comfortable with Say speak up I'm Sherry McDade I'm a CEO for the housing authority one of the number one items that when we bring something to the board is location and again We do the board is really stresses to us You know Areas such as you know, bro tracks things like that and we're mindful also Where we already have affordable housing and putting more affordable housing there. So really location in sight is probably one of our priorities one thing attorney Jones didn't mention but we also can't offer with the developer on a deal Where we're required by law such as doing a cooperative agreement that they develop who must have come in And by law if the housing authority is affiliated with that development on every part But we would not have any ownership I Just to follow up I'm one of the new members on the board so I one of the historical context I don't often have and have to reach for but but it seems like there was a pretty when I first came out of the board Saturation of for instance district one was was a pretty high conversation, right and I think that I've heard more conversations as a board member around saturation and Existing properties that I have necessarily some of the some of the things were nearby or some of the things that might affect. So Just from my perspective. It seems like that's a pretty high high priority sure Also, we also look at the district as for the schools are concerned the safety of the children if they're walking or traveling And how much traffic and what kind of traffic signals and causes we have? because If you're going to mostly all of that is going to include a lot of children and those children want to make sure that they got safe passage by both to and from school Okay, any other questions Left with him. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. So In in your priorities and then the the priorities that you're seeing on the screen for us What do you what do you think the biggest barriers? I this is sort of related to counsel Davis's question of he was saying are there holes Where you wouldn't? Look into a particular area, you know thus creating potentially a gap. But if you have other gaps, what are them? What are the barriers to filling those gaps in your mind? Is it is it primarily financing or or what do you think the barriers are to expanding your offerings? You know if we could wave a magic wand what what what would we do that would help you expand your office I? Would I mean I've never felt and I'm new to the board within two years. I've never felt that our first priority was money Never never been pressured to that our priority is to put our people In locations and you know, we even bucked the system a little bit. We started moving them out of District one and Ben and I came together one day and said listen, we gotta get housing You know, it's a situation. We have to get housing. We gotta talk to our people and see if they want to be more aggressive but I I personally would never vote for a property that wasn't a Property that again my parents my grandparents could not live in that they could get to the store some of our people don't drive and Medical, you know, I need medical and so If if you ask it's not a money thing. It really isn't but it is a safety thing And we battle because sometimes I don't agree with them and they don't agree with me and at the end we come together But we want them in a place that they're proud of That they can afford this. This is something that we talked about. We haven't discussed yet We want to make sure that we set them up for a success not failure If we put them in a really nice place and wherever you know, the one of the development says yeah We'll lower it for you this that and we put in right place. They are going to fail because they can't pay their bills then we've made a mistake and You know and we've done, you know not talking about any property But we we've been cautious of one because of that, you know, because we feel like that we're setting them up for failure and not success I do want to mention one of the One of the difficulties in working on the development is trying to get developers to Develop units that have a lower deeper subsidy meaning that the units are more affordable for more like 30% area median income families that's one of the Issues we have going back and forth with developers trying to get more affordable lower Okay, any other questions By all means so is it is a We've talked a lot about that that 30% threshold also and kind of where some of the Call it a donut hole because it's just like It's not just a donut hole. It's a big segment of our population that needs that 30% That needs assistance at that level Is it a lack of developers in the space? Is it developers who are interested in developing other places and not dentin? Is it a lack of sites for those developers? Like what what's the barrier to getting some of those? Some of those developments and then I have a big preference for mixed income properties where you've just got the full the full spectrum where You know a well-off student could be living right next door to a low lower income elderly person and everybody in between Everybody has the same unit. You just nobody really knows what anybody's paying in rent What is making it difficult or what barriers are there to attract in those kind of developments to dent to getting more of those Across the spectrum even down to the 30% threshold developments to dent Usually it's the tax below income housing tax credit program if they can get a 9% deal approved and You guys probably have seen the process and the applications and where you go through and whoops you jump to and you come back And hope and pray So if you can get a developer who can get a 9% tax credit award They can usually put in some deeper subsidies, but those tax credit are so hard and so competitive that everybody just runs down there and they throw it up against the wall and you try to see how many points you can get to Get above them get above the line. So it it's you know more tax credits on the other end Then you probably could bring a deal back and put in some more lower And if I may add it's ultimately about costs, right? So whatever developer wants to do It's about can they make the deal work with funds they have so what shares talking about is 9% gives that more equity into the project and allows them to offer more units at a cheaper cost So in that in that vein if there's not other financing mechanisms to help bring the cost down on the development whether it's incentive subsidy Tax credit it makes it difficult to create those deals at that 30% affordability Without having an equal mix of either market rate or other financing to help the project So that what nanny's saying about the cost one of the things we do here is the cost of the land the real estate is so Expensive that it can be a non-starter from out the gate and then also the cost of construction which causes a gap So if you can't fill the gap even with the tax Savings from the Apple warm exemption, then it's also enough go. So one of the things that I heard earlier was land banking Maybe even some city land if you can put it in at cost or because you own it You can bring down the cost of the overall sources and uses with a capital stack and that would be a huge tool because then they don't have to combat the cost of the land just to get into the deal and they can finance it with a bond deal of four percent, which is Non-competitive, although there's a lottery and then that way you can kind of kind of decide your destination you can navigate an actual deal because you have Reasonable land costs under one of the things Danny mentioned which could be land banking land trust, etc You put the land in the deal you can court developers or they can know about it Give you an RP or however you choose with your council and then you can do a four percent bond deal and then that could be You can make it partially affordable in the rest mark. You could design it however you direct That would be an excellent way to use one of your tools and then third problem that still is access to capital So the pre-development financing program is a way to offer potentially a low interest loan Which gives them better access to capital which then makes some of their other financing requests easier as well So it's another tool that can be used with the land Like that you put it appreciate putting in terms of the capital stack So we don't often on the public side talk about if we want to build something You know, we can issue CEOs or go to the public for or geo bonds and we can we can finance things We can find money somewhere if it's a priority in the budget But a private developer, it's very easy for us on our side to think about their developers. I guess all this money, right? They still have to make the deal pencil. They still have to make the deal make sense. And so capital stack that whether it's Financing on the front end whether it's affording the rising cost of labor and construction materials and everything in the Between it's not just about it's not in the kind of place that wants affordable housing. It's are we the kind of place Can we can we make a deal happen for a developer that is looking all over the state? It's where they might be able to buy an expensive land or have a city that's gonna put in some land or a nonprofit So I appreciate you very much putting it in those terms because on the council side most of us are not experienced with Financing multi-million dollar real estate deals, right? That's not what we do So figuring out how that happens and knowing how the developer looks at those things That it's not just a big pile of money that they're drawing out of to make their projects work. It's very helpful Okay, any other questions So I'm gonna I have a few so when it comes to priority strategy Planning sessions. That's what is the frequency that y'all is that annual? It's all y'all take a look at that or how often does the Housing Authority look at that strap? Okay, and then And the board is in the process and we're trying to find locations in sight for a strategic plan Okay, and Danny, could you do you have that current project plan or could you make a note to circulate that for me? Okay, and then Thank you and really a lot of these questions are because this will be this meeting be archived its video Whereas and we'll get to that later. I think it's important to have that access for people to come back and visit And I want to talk to y'all in section C. I guess that's where it falls on somehow Capturing your meetings and putting that out there and it goes to the education component. We've talked about to kind of help Share what you're doing how others can plug in and to that today and we just left there talking about undeveloped property for example Is there a plan for the property up near pecan place or have you talked about that? I mean, that's that's a large swap of property downtown That could be could activate a number of businesses etc. So where are we with that with that property? Y'all talked about that Okay Got it. Okay. And the reason the other thing that's timely because and and this is maybe Sarah We can get Becky plugged in They if you for those not tracking at all the county just approved that proposition for roads One of those roads will be locus and elm So we're gonna bring that up to first world standards and so that's right next to what you're doing, right? So it's important that we work together because we're gonna be moving utilities. We're gonna be doing a lot of work in that area I don't know how quick that spins up, but you should probably be aware that the front's gonna be torn up and Cork and it's also a pool of resources, right? I think if we're gonna be doing some work anyway and Construction starting on its way. Maybe there's an opportunity to say so wanted to share that And then I do I mean this is from your opening statement That is so fourteen thousand people on the on the list Yeah, and so and then so you you say housing going forward you would have about in two three years You'd have about two thousand five hundred units so my question is what's the One do we regularly do you regularly communicate with those on the list? Do they get like an update or something that says? Annually, they'll get a Okay, and then what is the how do you what's your strategy for that? Right? I mean understanding all is going well Admittedly and we're about twelve thousand short. What's the How did what's your approach to kind of how you attack that one bite at a time? the housing authority has No, we certainly understand and know that we're not gonna feel they can't be a 14,000 Oracle housing units and we know the government is not going to give us 14,000 vouchers. So we address it and tackle it the best way we can by either trying to add more vouchers or building more and we try to look at every development deal that comes through and To try to add to it and try to help us Okay, so is there a check against that to say our goal for example, you know We read Salvation Army rehoused just under 100 people this year or just kind of what's the matrix? What's the data? What's the goal? When you look at your forecast to say we should be able to move the list or we should be able to transition X amount of people off the list is that an annual goal or what is that goal? I guess that's not necessarily What how it works because those folks are applying for the section eight voucher program and we only have so much money or so many So when we open up or working with a developer and we're opening up a new development We offer it we send a letter to the folks on our waiting list to try to give them maybe first dibs on Applying for that property. So that's one way we but again certainly not thinking that we're No, I agree Right, but it's really about for me if I'm going to join in you with you in messaging I need to understand better what that What are we trying to what do we need? Right? Do we need we need more developers? We need more this and so just like a counselor in Vegas appropriately pointed out that we Were ready for ready mix not to be downtown And so we've kind of put out an all points bulletin to all developers saying hey if you can find us a piece of property Outside of the center of Denton, we're happy to work with you We're happy to to work and get in the middle and facilitate. So similarly, I understand know You're not going to meet that that that 14,000 applicant Lift but also would understand how as a council and as as a mayorism in meetings talking to people And I'm asked what does the city need? What's the answer to that? What what's the answer to what would be what would accelerate that process? What would be beneficial to have? What's the what's the wish list? more affordable housing that has deeper substance That would address our waiting list Okay All right I also think that we need of course. This is a dream. Okay, and I think we need city involvement You know, we have two major universities and then We don't know if they have any kind of and Sherry you've talked to the presidents over there. I believe I Don't know what to have. I know they don't fill their dorms I don't know if they have any space they can give this. I don't know Yeah, they actually just this year The word of trustees passed a new policy saying that they will only guarantee housing for freshmen. Okay Sophomores are will likely have to live on but if we can use as an example, there's gotta be I mean So they're putting pressure on Market as well as everybody. I mean, we're just not and so if we can think a little bit I hate this term banana box. Well, how do we get involvement from our city? to come with us and And fix this problem because it's only gonna get worse. It's not gonna get better Sure. No, I think you're spot-on. I think counseling requires spot-on when you and and it's a community, right? so all of this is geared around education sharing information disseminating information and the more we were on the same page to the better off we are because I Know and understand there's several residents and them that would that don't want another apartment complex built at all ever and then there's the there's the Colleges to say we we have to have it UNT says just in our quarterly meeting They're gonna remove about four thousand eight hundred rooms that they don't have enough one and then two they're gonna move about four four thousand eight Hundred in our last quarterly meeting they're tearing down the college in the icon. It's terrible But but they're they're they're reducing the availability of housing and so you have the residents versus the Universities and how do we message that how do we work together to achieve those goals? And so it really is important for us to work together and understand What what the the community sentiment is so that we can message to that and communicate that so? That's my thoughts at least and so then I was also you kind of touched on it already, but In part of my ignorance, I don't know how this works, but so for example when I went to Think it's last week. So it all runs together last week villages of razor ranch has homes There are rentals that are ready to go that they're trying to get people into And so my question is are I don't know What is the process for reaching out to a already developed piece of property that that's empty and say? Hey, we can give We have what's your qualifications. We may have people to apply that fit. What's what's that? Connection process with developments that are already on the ground And that I don't know what the qualifications are how that Conversation initiated that's my that's my question because while I'm sitting there talking to them. I could say hey well Here's a way that you could get two three four five People in homes as you build out as we all know the markets cooling So it may be a good opportunity to take advantage of that or you may have people more open To to partnering than they were when the market was red hot. What's that engagement process for? already developed rental units The family usually has to have a voucher and if we don't have any more vouchers and we're not issuing the vouchers You can't go over here. So there are need to apply to the waiting list come up on the way Let's get a voucher to go with that unit that's available. So it's not a automatic Units they can move them over here So the the so the numbers 1,935 I think She said initially the chair said and that's how many vouchers you have current Yeah And does that go up or down? annually in part maintenance Not necessarily if there are special programs that HUD has and funding for them will get a few for instance We just got 10 new Bouchers for the veterans program. So that's ten more veterans that will be getting a voucher and looking for housing So if we know a developer or owner or landlord has a vacant unit that's available So we're briefing that family and giving them is from the voucher. We can breathe let them know This is about we can't tell them where to move to new where to go, but we can let them know these units are available So I think what I heard you asking and I'm not sure I heard the answer bit was was also how can we Collaborate better with the developers that are doing it to make sure that those units are available Was that part of the question or were you asking specifically? At the individual level at the voucher level. Yeah, no just I think more broadly just trying to fix You know, hey, I know of a space that has an entire neighborhood that's built that has single-family homes three four bedroom units Giant backyards. I think that are perfect for families. Is There fit is there an opportunity to plug them in? Is there an opportunity to look at the list and say hey, you know if you qualify or if you to qualify or you know if you know, we Put minds together. Is that can we? Realize a benefit from those vacant homes or at least have that conversation. I think that Understanding the program as far as having a voucher and being on the waiting list you on a waiting list for a voucher So in order to us to send a family somewhere they have to have that voucher in hand Which is why our wait list is so large now We're creating new developments and maybe some of those people won't need about you Maybe they can you know just go move and pay their own rents if we have the rents Affordable enough for them to pay and they won't need to be on the waiting list and won't and you can have to get a voucher And I think that's where the misunderstanding may come from So if the neighborhood does have vacancies if we don't have any values to issue and the rents are too Expensive that we can't send anyone over there because they wouldn't be able to pay the rent themselves and we don't have a voucher to give It does and that's very helpful and thank you for the conversation and for the education I guess my question would be do you track those? Incomes because you may have someone if so, for example, if I go with you we go to Developer X that has X amount empty homes and we say hey Can you bring your rent to this for these fantastic families that just happen to be on our list They're waiting for a voucher But if you call if you have if you can get your rent to this level we can connect y'all Obviously those persons have to fill everything out themselves and go but can we can we make that connection or is that? something Even if we can try to help them negotiate a rent if they can't afford the rent there we can't tell them Well, you should get a bathroom here. That's kind of hard to say and so I Would recommend and suggest that if you have a developer or property owner who has any unit star available for rent And they will take the section a factor that they let us know so that we can refer people to them and either date We tell them you're not going to have a voucher but this is a land who had landlord who has some horrible units or units and maybe they have an income for or If a unit is if it's not horrible housing development unit that landlord is supposed to let the housing rate know that they'll accept Yes, so that's one side of it right the the voucher The other side of it is actually working with developers to build housing affordability, correct? So when you do that you're looking for either they have the land already Or is that something that the housing authority provides from buying land for housing affordability and then can it be? multi-use meaning what the councilmember Davis was saying which is you know the balance is bringing in a different and variety of Financial backing so that you can take more people that have Income restrictions so that it bounces stuff out a developer has the housing that gets levels of income The levels of income support the actual housing project once it's built so it pays back to developer But the bigger part is the those who need the income assistance. They don't have to pay anything They only vouchers their income is restricted meaning what they pay their rents restrict Is that not an opportunity to then work with more developers for those multi-type of? developments where the income from those users are the ones who rent it are different levels and That gets more people into housing, but it's not voucher programs It's literally building the buildings and then working with developers on the type of income that the type of money they pay inch by inch maybe you get more people in it because it's not gonna be like 150 people but Isn't that where the city can work with you even closer? So if we identify land Then we can work with y'all To get the developer in there to do these kinds of housings where they're having multiple layers of rent payments And that's why I say step-by-step Not not all at once we certainly won't hit 12,000 But step-by-step except we can get 50 people in here and 50 people in here and 50 people in here And I think for me, I will say that I think Danny is very committed. I know she's worked with y'all but you know, we just we're as concerned as you are about housing affordability, but also housing people and What my past experience is working with other cities the best the best way to do it is to work together to identify land and work with a developer to bring in that project, but then Moralize how they're going to charge so that more people can get housed And then I hate to say it but it goes back to what Councilmember Davis is saying some other people are going to pay more But then you're also intertwining people and you're not all sticking everybody into one location Which I think is wrong as well. We want housing affordability to be all of our city Because for me people go in and out of housing We're seeing that now people who had a job didn't have a job now they don't have a job or they experienced COVID and those kinds of things so It would be worthwhile for us to talk about really looking at housing projects across the city that we could put people get them in these housing, you know piece by piece but One by one, but we're certainly willing to try to do that and work with you on any way we can because it's important to us as well And I think that's where that and I didn't take this out of my head the NCA which I spent my life constantly have this person over here and this person over here and this person had to Meet a certain standard and this person didn't have to and blah blah blah and they couldn't get a control of it So what they did was they made a clearinghouse. I knew who could pay and Didn't need a voucher. Yeah, and they knew who needed a voucher on our side They put it all together. So when they looked at the clearinghouse, they could pull up and say you know what? You're not qualifying for our situation, but There's a house over here. That you know, I'd like to say it's one step at a time I think the issue is a little bit of ideas or communication, but it is we're more You can say I'm wrong, but we're more of a voucher Group, you know, we work into vouchers and the city's trying to work within the city problem and get help so we can help each other and You know, and I think it's a great idea, but I don't think we could just hit and miss we're at that point Then I don't think we can say okay, we're gonna do this. We didn't do that. We're gonna do this We're gonna do that without really knowing Really what the problem is in front of us Well, we'll never get it fixed So we'll help it a little bit, but and I don't know if we'll ever get it fixed and I know that we want to send A good message to the city of Denton. I love it But you know, not everything is well and then we've got a housing problem, but we have We have a lot of things going on But working together and communicating more and putting everything together. I think this is great. It will solve some of the issues That we've been having kind of doing our own thing. No, I think you're absolutely right. I think that's what I that's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah You all are gonna solve it by yourself. We're certainly not gonna solve it by ourselves and the developers are gonna solve it by themselves We all have to figure out a way working together to come up with a plan that says This is probably gonna be vouchers But this may be where we work together on property that then can be a mixed type of situation and chip away at the numbers Then we're also looking at where we put in housing or what we do through our work but I think we much prefer working with you all to do this and do it a comprehensive way and Each other know what each other's doing And support each other then to we are over here doing our thing y'all over here doing your thing I'm just used to working very closely with a housing authority and Getting the best of the best of both worlds And I think and so I'll say this last thing that I'll turn over you the recognized state and then I now come up It's mine. I'll come back. But I so no no no no no I just I just gotta get this so before I forget So I just want to say this from a district one perspective I do take a little concern with that because those boundaries move right and so it's just to make a decision based on a moving Boundary to me is problematic. I'd rather look at an instance where it so chief you you you You can commit to this or a comment on this Providence place we spend a lot of time out there as police officers are addressing issues Is that a is that a fair statement that providence place near behind across street from? Home depot so that's what is that? That's a Breaker. Yes, lots of that lots of time out there Correct. Yes, and so that to me is a greater focus than an arbitrary boundary that moves, right? so if all the if we have a because understanding and I raised this issue about When it came to have it at houses and they're clustering in district one And so I know what you don't have to explain to me the problem that is I understand it It's less than great to have everything on the other side of the trial proverbial tracks You're not you're not you know, I don't need to be educated on that But I also need to understand we're trying to get people in houses and there's problems like providence Place where there's clusters and there's clusters in the heart of southeast didn't where there are no crops and so less problems, right and so it you know, so that's that to me is is is really the focus on Are the neighborhoods performing? Well, are there issues there are what's the police blotters say that would be as a focus to me versus a District one boundary that's subject to change At every time so that's just I needed to say that that's the last one. Let's appreciate you know But so so we're gonna go to let her recognize Dave and then I'll get You are then back so big I just wanted to offer a little bit of context because I think you're not really familiar with what has been going on That house inventory there might have been a little context that I didn't hear in that conversation And and so I noticed It was mentioned that what we really focus on is the vouchers and there was the idea of what a more affordable housing options whatever what if that was Going on, but what I've seen in my little time of the year only going on about six months is almost every deal that has come to us has been a combination of Different levels of affordable housing. In fact, I haven't seen one where that wasn't part of the discussion, right? So each each development deal that I think that we've been presented with that that's been a pretty good focus So it isn't really just about the vouchers that stuff is definitely integrated as part of it And it's always a certain percentage is at this rate and certain percentages at this rate And I think without exception each one that I've seen has had some component like that So I don't want you to think that that's a foreign notion to what? Councilmember aguar and then council McGee. Thanks so much I'd like to ask for some clarity on some things that miss McDade said a while ago. So, um So what I'm hearing is that there are quite a few kind of bumpers and limitations on the work that you do That is outside the control of anybody that's in this room, right? So we're talking about vouchers you all do a lot of work with vouchers the number of vouchers is set by the federal government and it's extremely limited and it frankly the the the the number of Folks who are in need of affordable housing who have access to a voucher is a very very small percentage, right? It's a small percentage of folks who need affordable housing who actually have access to a voucher. So from the city perspective I don't know that it we need that needs to be part of our conversation, right? as you just mentioned so but the the the limitations that are part of our conversation are The the funding for the 9% housing tax credit, right that that we you know We both both DHA and the city's FC can pursue those 9% projects But the month just the pot of money at the state is is what it's going to be, right? So If the goal is to build as many subsidized Across the range of something Knowing that It's very difficult to get a 9% Project and that we you know, I mean how often would you say the city of debt and gets a 9% project? I mean once every few Yeah, yeah, so we that's not something we can count on basically, right? So in terms of a strategy We need to be maximizing the number of subsidized use of units that we can get with other with other incentive right, so Is there any kind of difference between? The work that DHA does and the work that a city-run PFC could do in terms of Pursuing 4% housing tax credit projects or pursuing these these 50 80 projects like would it make sense for DHA to kind of say we're the deep subsidy people and the city to be the moderate subsidy people or Or would it make sense to everybody just go for every project you can make happen. I Just don't believe there should be a moderate versus low You're gonna have confusion in the marketplace Let me frame that differently So does it make sense for DHA and a city-run PFC to be competing for a 9% housing tax credit? I guess it's what I'm making I'm asking so the city or the housing authority wouldn't really be the ones Competing for the 9% because you have to have an individual projects So then the developer would go and make application through the TDA CA and then they would reach out to a partner For the benefits that that partner brings to the table and that that partner would be to bring the tax exemption Okay, otherwise or any other thing that brought points or money so all developers are gonna have to go to Danny And the city to say how we need those Points for support and no objection and without which you will not be in the war But ideally each of those developments we are getting points on several factors so it makes sense to me that if there's a project that wants to come through then all the projects get submitted because One project is going to get more points because it's closer to a hospital another product is going to get you know points because it's closer To an opportunity zone. So there's so many factors in that conversation It to me doesn't seem like something that we would have to say one or the other It's okay. You just kind of put as much we can As much as the city can bear and see which which catches So I think that a big part of like what we were trying to determine today was kind of how can a city-run CFC work? with DHA complement DHA and not compete with DHA and it sounds like what I'm hearing is if Every entity in the city that is capable of putting forward subsidized projects just moves forward as many as they can afford to do and Applies for as as many substance subsidies as they can apply for Then that that's just going to help everyone basically and we're not the city's not going to be stepping on any toes by applying Broadly for for a wide range of projects basically, right? So I think that what miss Hensley said was spot-on with respect to strategy because you have tools That the housing theory doesn't have you can get land you can reduce costs for things and then with that you can build more units because you're going to part with developers that has something that you can offer to the capital stack and it all comes down to points and Profitability for the developer and if the city is giving them something like density bonus or whatever then you must take Affordable units if you want this and you have to give us units So that's what I think you were talking about your experience with other areas That's what a lot of towns and cities are doing so to get the benefits and the points and other like a tip etc that if you want a tip then you have to provide x number of affordable units, so I think that's a Another tool that was on the screen Is that how we can parlay the benefits that developer needs and also attract them at the same time? Thank you so much. That does answer my question and then I just want to echo You know, I know that there are a lot of different factors And thank you so much for mentioning all of the different factors in terms of location I I hadn't really considered Safe routes to school even though that's something that we talk about a lot, but I hadn't considered location as part of that and I Recognized that There are a lot of different factors including the price of the land That go into where an affordable project can be built. I hope that DHA knows that I mean, I certainly feel this way if anybody doesn't feel this way on the city council feel free to speak up but Building affordable housing far away from where expensive housing shouldn't be one of your considerations and I hope that you don't feel any pressure To make that one of your considerations Hey, mr. Mayor, um, I appreciate This one where I get into the heart of what I wanted to ask as well So I'm not gonna rehash that thanks for asking that I'm gonna touch on something we talked about like 20 minutes ago with the vouchers Do you have a number for do you know the number for the number of people who have vouchers and don't have a house It's okay if you don't either know or don't have the answer today I'm just curious how many people in our community have a voucher for housing, but don't actually have that house We have about 20 21 families who may be in the middle of moving to They may be still looking and searching for Ready for them, but very rarely Okay, so there's no okay. That's my question. I want to make sure there aren't a lot of people falling in the gap right there Okay, but but but what we're running into is that our families with the voucher for them to find the landlord They'll accept their voucher. So those folks kind of get in the transit and we're all sandwich Units, okay We know a developer and a place that has units that are vacant people are with the voucher are moving all the time So to speak so we are looking for other other units So that's that's one of the problems we're running into now Is that trying to find a family wants to move to a better area higher opportunity? They have a voucher to be able to locate a house or unit in that particular area Sometimes we run into that. Okay, and one more question if you don't mind. Um Help me because i'm new here. So I don't understand necessarily the relationship. So i'm going to touch on something the mayor brought up earlier. So There is a complex that has available units What is the process that you all can go to that complex manager say hey, I have families who? Might need a place to relocate already have vouchers. How does that work? That landlord would notify the housing authority and we would put them basically on a vacancy list So you're we can steer or tell a family where to go or where to move with their voucher We give them a list of the options our landlords who we've worked with or have worked with and say this is who we have This is what we know about And it's up to that family So I guess what i'm asking is that the so the point of contact must be a landlord reaching out to you all yes, or Sometimes when I drive by and see a new property going up and I go write the information down and run back to my Staff and let them know there's a new apartment complex being built. And so we try to contact them, too is there So landlord education also so and help me if this is there an opportunity for maybe you all to specifically partner with the city on that piece when Our development services division knows that new apartments are coming They just shoot over a list to help expand your list so that you already know So you don't have to just drive by and you know what I mean? Is there an opportunity to work together on that? We can do that. That's not a problem Or does it happen? It might already happen. That's why i'm asking. I don't know I'll check no, it doesn't happen with that process. We have a process Where housing navigators are funded for people experiencing homelessness? So the navigator actually does that role of recruiting landlords to open more doors to people experiencing homelessness? So we have experience with that side of it with a very specific targeted population, but absolutely it would be easy to Develop the services publish a list. Would that help you? Okay, thank you. Yes Yes Is that okay with him? Oh Okay for information sake One thing is that we have all these thousands of people but some of them have been on this list for more than five years So it's just not that easy and then we have some people who have different backgrounds that some of the landlords will not accept So we've got to figure out a way also to get like a second chance set of Developers because you know a mistake 10 years ago should not affect So that's one of the problems and the second problem is it needs to be an education on the fact that um Well, if you were in the whole 10 years ago, are you still there now or have you moved up some? So together, I think we can all make this happen But the bottom line is we've got to have some people that are willing to say I'll give you a shot Because that's a lot of the problem now. Some of the landlords are not willing to go back and say I'll give you an exp. I'll give you a chance Okay, uh Councilman mcgee and mayor pretend it'll be quick. So I appreciate that so to follow up on that Do we have a list of second chance developer? Not that it's current Um, but again, that's another part of the housing navigator program that we do have those having housing navigators are actually Taking that client and connecting them to a landlord who will accept that by negotiating with the landlord But the other important part of that process that's really key in this conversation is Having a case management support around that person so that when they do need that second chance They have someone there to support them to make sure they can maintain that housing once they've been placed So there's just a couple of key components of that where it's been successful, which we could replicate But there's not a second chance list. We used to maintain one back in 2015, but hasn't been updated in a while Can it be updated? It would take a it would take a significant amount of staff resource to contact every single Um a landlord in this community and see if they would be willing to accept But we do have access to what the housing navigators have already identified as potential housing For people experiencing homelessness who have the same barriers that miss johnson was talking about Thank you. Thank you. I have two sort of questions related to to what councilmcgee and commissioner johnson We're talking about but this is from the supply side um, something the mayor mentioned earlier is are there are there units that are that are vacant And so i'm curious what it feels like with the 27 percent year-to-year growth in in in rates It feels like there's probably not a lot of vacant rates, but do we have a feel for the vacancy rate? Yeah, we're at 97 98 occupancy very low vacancy rate. Thank you for your cover, right? and so then um something that might exacerbate that unfortunately and I think um Commissioner johnson sort of alluded to this in the discussion of second chances. Do we have turnover of ownership where? You transition from second chance housing to non-second chance housing. Therefore. We're having additional attrition Of second chance housing. Yeah again, I couldn't answer that because we're not tracking that specifically, but I get your question Is there a way to get out that number? I from a staff research person. I don't see that being possible again for the number of landlords to track that um, the community service advisory committee has asked for information on a rental registration program that we would be talking about With you in the future that may give us an opportunity to ask those types of questions when we're registering landlords If that was a program that we could implement so that might be a possibility where we just add are you second chance? Do you accept vouchers in a way to help us better communicate on some of these projects in the future? That's something that the CSAC is interested in. Thank you Okay I appreciate that vacancy rate question because In the back of my head and I appreciate the updated number that's basically right about where we were pre-covid And we didn't really know with covid and people being able to make rent or not and eviction moratorium all that kind of stuff where vacancy rates would land post covid but um the issue the mayor Brought up while there's you know, what's it 1300? How many units did you say? That one that one property you said there's a certain number were you just using a round number or was that Specifically that property that had vacancies. Oh, yeah, so I don't yeah I don't know how many homes they have there but it's a significant number For the next five minutes. That's how many they have So I I think it would I i'm not very interested using a lot of resources on the The filling vacancy side of the equation just because I don't think that's the issue you could you could build a brand new complex In denton tomorrow and offer it at three times the market rate and you would fill it in about five minutes because somebody Somebody's going to send their student there somebody's going to have the resources to live there and want to live there So I I don't want to spend a lot of time too much on the That side of it. I think that the issue is more so So on the economic development partnership board one of the things we look at for membership that board is We have to have someone representing one of the top 10 taxpayers in the city property taxpayers Out of those 10 you can imagine what some of them are like peter built is on that list They're a big taxpayer. They make a lot of stuff. They own property here in the city. They pay a lot of taxes on that list something like five or six out of the ten are real estate holding companies for apartment complexes because Uh the in this space when we're talking about landlords that take section eight or talking about landlords who work with us on placement We're not talking about you know, is it still called the ridge or do they change their name again? We're not talking about the ridge and we're not talking about the old university courtyard. We're not talking about those places. We're talking about Landlords who live among us young people who live who? Who serve on our boards and commissions? We're talking about regular people who we know in the community so When we're talking about things like second chance housing It's not that that over there is the second chance housing that over there is a fourplex or an eightplex owned by a guy that has Deep ties the community is making a choice to be a part of a rehousing program So I just want to make sure we kind of have that that's not to be a naysay or anything I just want to make sure we have that in the back of our minds That we're really talking about different groups of people the the big apartment complexes are owned by people are owned by big Equity firms and all that kind of stuff the people that we're working with for placement most effectively Are just regular folks that we know the people that we are among All the time whether it's church on sunday or a city board on a on a wednesday night or whatever it is um, that's where we have the most impact and the most success is Dealing with folks who we know on our time Sometimes even on a first name basis not necessarily on the big the big properties um the other issue that i'm glad we've already talked about a little bit today, but the I think the two things that are really driving up cost in our city are One student housing that there is just isn't enough housing on campus and they're putting more and more other students out into the market and that's usually It's a different income stream for those folks, isn't it that it might be student loans It might be mom and dad it might be anything but it's a different income stream for that part of the market but the other The other piece of it too is outside investment I already mentioned the big real estate holding companies. I know in That's fine. There's nothing wrong with making a dollar that way investing in those real estate trusts and all that kind of stuff But then you also have folks who are companies that are buying up rental properties I don't know how many y'all if you live in a single family home If you get an offer on a pretty regular basis from somebody who wants to buy your house and they don't live here They're not a local real estate agent. They are somebody they are a private equity firm and they want to buy your house and rent it to folks so that's a big impact on our market too because A dentin As expensive as it is getting to live here. We are not as expensive as a lot of other places We are a very attractive place for somebody with out of town capital to make a big purchase so there's still a lot of Affordable by somebody else's standards housing in dentin and it's it's being purchased and bought up So again, not to be a naysayer just to know that those are some of the market pressures that we're competing against when we talk about affordable housing And why it's not surprising for me to hear you all say the answer is just straight up deeper subsidies um, it's units with deep subsidies i'm not at all surprised to hear that because We're pushing that piece of string on a lot of fronts already. We're working very hard with local landlords Already, it's really about more units with a deeper subsidy or else we're not going to put a dent in it So end of soapbox Okay, any other questions? I have a question um If you think affordable housing here is cheaper than other places For the middle i'm going to say the middle income people then why are they moving to career and lewisville and sanger because they say to us We can't afford it And debt level so I think I think if you look at the broad data not individual families or individuals You know in their particular financial situations the broad data is pretty clear that just with a broad brush We're still a cheaper place to live than some other places in the metroplex That doesn't mean that every family is having an easy time or that every family is finding something that they can afford But just Top-level data were still less expensive than a lot of places in the metroplex that doesn't i'm not trying to say that it's easy Or that we're fit for everybody just that that's the the broad brush data that's out there because the lower level of the middle level and getting killed I think that's true across the board. You know, it's just It's getting killed. So we're losing our people and our tax money to other communities that they can get Make a living right now. And so We're trying to solve a problem at the middle or below the middle And yet we're comparing it to the hey, it's not that high Up here depending on that way, you know to me it's got you know, these people that get these big taxes And then they own Own, you know own some places They're the ones that should keep down the price of the rentals to help our problem that we have in the city um, and you know, so we're trying to You know, where where does our city lie? I guess i'm saying where does it lie the spectrum? You know, we're gonna up here. This is our city Or down here is this our city or we want to be here our city because we're losing here and we're losing down here And the facts I don't care what facts you say I don't mean to be disrespectful. I'm not trying to That's the truth We see it all all the time We see people out in our community laying in Ground what you guys are trying to fix And I understand that I thank you for that. We have You know, we have so much homelessness people coming from dallas. I can't afford to live here So they live in the streets and then we have our people leaving because they can't afford even UNT You know kids are going to Corinth to live PW kids are going to lewisville live because they can't afford housing And there's I just personally think there's a problem with that I don't think you and I are disagreeing. I don't think we're saying different things Uh, my only my point was not to say that That things are easy in denton or that everybody in denton can afford a place to live My point is to say that huge numbers of our units are not owned by people we can get on the telephone Are not owned by landlords that we can talk to about you're right We need to talk to landlords about keeping their rates manageable Huge portions of what we have in denton are not owned by landlords that we can get on the phone and say Can you offer a slightly lower rent because you are chasing out people who just can't afford it They're owned by companies that are answerable to stockholders and that's how they make their rent their rent rate decisions Not because they have face-to-face interaction with people who can't afford the rent So my point was not to say we shouldn't do anything or that we don't need to do something It's to say the people that we can work with the best Are the local landlords who tend to have fewer units who tend to be folks that we can Get on the phone who have worked with us in the past and that we've had a lot of success with It's just recognizing the reality of our particular market as a college town And the kinds of units that we have out there and the kind of mix of units that we've got And I think to that and I know if you have to if you have to go Whatever you do, I get it. It's all recorded. So you'll be in a you'll be able to see it but To council member davis's point to your point. We want to be in the middle I think we've always been in the middle of that kind of affordability, but the the pressures are Undisputed so what you have is dallas is more expensive than denton So so and I have this case in point with a friend that wanted to live in dallas purposefully trying to buy a house in dallas and could not afford it and ended up in denton county just because that's what they could afford it and That's someone purchasing and the same pressure is renting so dallas just pushes people to the north So it's not a denton person per se It's a dallas person the person wanted to be in dallas ends up in carolton carolton person then gets squeezed and it just squeezes everyone north And we're the most affordable thing at the top of the golden triangle and then the same thing from the east briscoe is unaffordable for Lots, uh, and matter of fact even an omni hotel is buying homes in denton to support their staff and so Because it's the next affordable thing down the line Uh, you know salinas through the roof all those areas are through the roof So they're looking that you have a corporation buying houses in denton because that's where it's affordable to then Have people drive back to work there So the the pressure coming from 35 and 380 is and not didn't kind of not Native to denton but getting to know denton liking denton, but how do we balance that? How do we keep people here? That's a challenge and I think we're all passionate about it, uh and making sure we we have a saw for that to maintain our culture So you're you're absolutely right. It's it's a challenge But one we're up to kind of tackling to make sure we maintain kind of that that didn't flavor um, and i'll tell you this i'm committed it's great this conversation for me is great because um, even when you're talking about vouchers, I I don't If I don't get one that I still want to go to congressman burges the next time after this conversation and say hey Here's what I could use and go to Uh congressman jackson and go to senator cruz when we see him in dc and go to corning when we see him over there And say hey, here's what I need, you know, uh, but my question is this Is there a way to? Um, so Those same pressures with that's a great conversation. So could someone with a voucher? The federal voucher from dallas housing authority find a home and didn't and use that Yes So I'd love to Right, i'd love to know that I don't know if we know how we know that but i'd love to if that if that's knowable if How many what's the percentage? What's how many people have? Dallas vouchers finding Homes and you know, yes, sir I'm sorry, it goes the other way as well, right? So our vouchers are certainly used outside of city limits. I think I don't I don't even know if are there are there parameters on that? I mean or is a voucher a voucher? Yeah, a voucher is a voucher. Um, a housing authority can let their family move pretty much anywhere that they're willing to drive to administer So there's not a way that we can know what that number is if they didn't come to our program But we do the housing authority does have 300 families that came from other pj's all over the country that have moved into our jurisdiction Man just thank you. I'm just wondering. I mean we've had a really good discussion, but I'm one of those people actually sets of actions for us for the future And wondering if maybe we could all agree for regular meetings to develop a collaborative Plan with time-limited milestones. We're all dealing with the same problems I mean, I know the voucher side of it you're working your tails off And as you said, you've still got people on the list that never move up From a city perspective where we have a strategic toolkit. We want to see More housing affordability across the city not just in one location TWU UNT is struggling for housing DISD is going to look at they're looking at the reuse of their buildings teacher housing is another issue that is huge in the city It's huge across the country But but cities have worked with teachers with with school districts to take buildings and turn it into teacher housing So there's really there's we can sit here all day and talk about the problems But until we sit down collectively with TWU UNT DISD the housing authority and the city And then have developer town halls and talk about rehousing talk about how owner owner Developers who live in the city discussions and then new developers that come in Bring in our development services bring in our economic development director and talk about what is our strategy together moving forward? So when we get new developments in scott knows and wane knows from economic development Exactly what we need to say about it's great. You're coming. We want you here, but we need some help And people who are already here who are helping us just need to continue to say thank you, but we need some more help And and with TWU UNT There may be collaborative efforts here for development of housing that is not just for students, but for other people who need it I just You know i've worked with the school district to take uh sites and reuse for housing for teachers because they couldn't afford it anywhere And there's no reason we can't do the same here But we can't do it alone. And so I would love to see us if the direction is for us to actually set up From a staff perspective, you know, we're in a meeting so we can develop this collaborative approach But not just us that we work with those other entities So we're all on the same page and we're all talking the same language and not in a vacuum Yeah, absolutely Just want to include the hospitals in that list because it's already happening in south texas where hospitals are working with municipalities To house their offer housing for their employees as well. You can do that too. Yeah anybody else In the means of leaving anybody else Okay Danny do you have uh Okay, great any other questions Councilman davis I have one kind of kind of thing at the back of my mind and I know the last time we we met together we were Last time in a joint meeting we were zoomed and it was kind of weird times, right? And we're kind of transitioning trying to figure out what the world looks like after after that time But one of the great resources we have available as the city Is you know what you see we're we're being recorded. We're being We have spanish language interpretation available for our council meetings One thing that i've been asked about the housing authority is How do I find out what the housing authority is doing? How do I find out what the housing authority what the business before the housing authority is? And y'all post your you post your agendas you you have to comply with texas open meetings and all that kind of stuff um But just like we run into when we do middle of the day work sessions or meetings like this Not everybody can come not everybody has the time to take out of their day to come and sit You know through an hour long meeting that could cover just about anything um, I have had direct requests from the community, uh for Better knowledge in the community about what it is that y'all do at your meetings Um, not just kind of what your mission is and what your goals are But what is it that happens at housing authority meetings? I i'd like to talk more about a partnering with y'all to Broadcast your meetings to have them recorded to have them available to folks I know in preparation for this meeting I wanted to go back and kind of read some of your meeting minutes and kind of see what y'all have been Up to since the last time we had a joint meeting It's very difficult to do that because it's not always posted What happened at a meeting and minutes y'all know you read the minutes you have to approve them every time They're not always very descriptive They don't always tell you well commissioner so-and-so had a really good idea commissioner so-and-so had another good idea And they talked about it for a while the minute says A discussion happened about such-and-such and you don't get everything. Um, So I know that it's been a great benefit to me with my constituents that people can just turn on the internet And watch our meetings they can Just had a series of tubes moment, didn't I? My fellow millennial over here is telling me how to talk about the internet. Um people Can log on they can watch our meetings real time. They can watch our meetings recorded I would really like to be able to see y'all's meetings recorded and available to the public so folks know Uh, you can have your closed meetings all that kind of stuff just like you have to do about your individual deals and that kind of stuff um, but for some people that i've heard from Uh, the housing authority right now is kind of a black box. They don't know what's going on in there They don't know what's happening They don't have the benefit of like I can call danny and say hey Let's talk about the housing authority last week or they don't have the benefit of knowing y'all and you don't pick up the phone Owners in an email to find out what's going on. So I'm just kind of curious to know what y'all think about that How y'all will feel about? Maybe partnering and using some of our resources to make that happen so that we know the community knows What's going on there? The housing authority does not have a audio video Department we don't have cameras and videos and so if that's something that the city is interested in I'm landing Would y'all be so there It's always a cost and everything but would y'all be open to I know you have a headquarters courtroom Or you don't know you know can't do that. We can't have them here on a regular basis. That's not routine I mean interrupt but before you That's not apropos in the and there's probably lots of issues in the statute on that And I can talk to your council about that but to have a place that's other than headquarters To get to the cameras that would cause more problems than it's going to be worth Okay, what about an audio recording? What about just somebody just somebody hitting a hitting a button? Facebook live stick their phone Yeah, so I can tell you it's it's an item of concern for me and it's not because I'm concerned about what's going on behind the closed door. It's because there's a perception and y'all know Perception is reality. I want to be able to tell folks that We are partnering in all the ways that we've talked about today with the housing authority and that you can find out all about it by watching your council meetings and by watching your housing authority meetings by Listening to housing authority meeting by having minutes that are updated for the last couple of meetings and all that kind of stuff Like I just feel like in the in the age that we're in now People expect and deserve that level of transparency Especially when we're talking about such major issues. So what what can we do to help y'all get there? Can we send a person? To the meetings like every two weeks and update the council meetings At least we're there and update you guys on what we're doing or if we can't do any video and not because of law No, i'm not saying you can't do video because of law and I shouldn't interrupt. I do apologize Um, I was concerned about the location piece And headquarters because as the housing authority people know it's open meetings acts public information act We have headquarters people that do come to the meeting knows where it is And to start, you know, anyway, we could talk about that Uh, the board can entertain it. I don't want to speak out of school But there are some things on locations and stuff that I can visit with your council about that. That was my New jersey reaction. I think there are definitely some practical applications. I have to push back just a little bit on the on the Summer piece you might have some housing authorities particular. I've read y'all's enabling statute and that kind of stuff and you're this is definitely not my area Unbelievable. We move our meetings around all the time and you can set up a new this is the location, you know If you can't have meetings of some house authorities to rotate the meetings I guess i'm concerned about the access of peace and so we could end up going backwards instead of forward if we uh, But there are some concerns just from my 30 years of doing that today, but i'm all about millennial, uh Advancement at the same time, but i'm happy to share that with the board as needed I think once we um talk to council and see what we can do. I definitely agree with making it more available Perhaps is there an opportunity to maybe to to Split the difference because I do agree with uh, my friend from district three. Um I'm, not sure how many of us in this body have been to a housing authority meeting. I will confess and say I have not Um, is there maybe an opportunity to collaborate with the city? Uh, how how far in advance do you post your meeting dates and times? Required by state it's like well 72 hours, I think is that right? Yes So like what the city does like the city already has our meeting schedule out into next year. Do you have that? We meet the third tuesday of every month So perhaps there's an opportunity for us to maybe link on our website for the public To at least be able to find where their meeting schedule is and the location so that more people can find you and have an opportunity to go Is that maybe a small opportunity where we can start working together? I'm not sure we we send our posting notes Yeah, that already happened. It's already it's already there, but you also have your website too and it's posted on your website as well Yeah, I think To agree with councilmember nakes. It's just difficult. I mean, it's just I encourage everyone and then the people watching go read the minutes It's tough to know what the subject matter is and I understand that I don't I I don't want to leave without At least clear in the air. There is no there may be Logistical concerns, but I too am ignorant of Legal concerns about legally posting the meeting at a different location. We did that today, right? We normally meet at city hall We legally post it saying this meeting will be here for this one off and and if we were to meet here in perpetuity We would just change the designation to say hey we meet at the whatever this address is on tuesdays and people come here irrespective of I just want to make sure we're clear. There's no legal Toma Barrier Preference all those things. Absolutely, but I just uh, and so that being said I do have concerns that I'm a member of the seven neighborhood group and those meetings are recorded They don't have millions of dollars. They're not Making decisions that affect the the community there, you know So if a neighborhood group and so I don't know I don't know where we leave with and I think that's that's a great start a audio recording That that is a bare minimum that I would think we don't use an audio recording I would think billy has one somewhere that we could stick in a room uh on Once a month to to capture that to then post up Uh, but i'm volunteering him for something that I didn't check with him, but i'll i'll check an extra digital recorder Yeah, I mean it's it's just that is that is the lowest threshold I think as we work through and and so my question is danny would that be something that cdbg Uh an application for to cdbg could be funded for a camera a tripod Etc for that purpose. I would review it but not that i'm aware of Okay, so we couldn't make an application for that Okay, got it. All right. Well in it, okay Councilmember, uh mickey Would and this is moral knowledge, would you all in theory even be able to do something like this? Would you need special permission from hud? Are there other housing authorities that do recordings? Because maybe that you know if that happened somewhere No, the only thing i'll say is that we don't have a staff to audio visual media Staff person that would be there with the cameras. We record our meetings to get our minutes to go. So we do have We do have that not something we post on line We post the agenda and our part book of notices and a board has discussions and we have all of that But we don't have staff that's on The equipment and I think you mentioned that we've partnered with the city and the city Maybe continue saying someone over there once a month to do that. I I don't know. I guess it's possible and I Yeah, we we would not we would be able to transport equipment over like that to for I mean that's That's a lot to do just to go over once once a month to transport equipment and do it. I mean I You're i'm gonna have to talk ability I mean if you're if you all had the discussion and you wanted to host One of these is the council chambers for your housing authority meeting. We want to change your options um Then we could maybe work on that where you would if it was a good time We could have you sit at the dais We would record it just like we do our council meetings. It would be live recorded and it could go out On your website as well as the city's But it might be challenging too for staff to attend the meetings because they do close executive sessions Yeah, a lot of time for staff. Yeah, and that's what i'm saying. I understand where you're coming from So, uh, that's that's an option maybe but um, no, I think I heard her say they're recording anyway So it's just a matter of getting that audio file so that we can post it that am I wrong? I think so, but I don't know about the executive session. It might not be for you It's just it's just a recording. I don't know that it could even be transferred downloaded So do other authorities record their meetings? Or we just I don't know Either i'm not sure how it works other places. No, I know you that's not yes I'll tell you other cities do I mean other housing authorities have have theirs they do They do it and it's it's recorded and matter of fact in austin It's actually in the council chambers because the board for the housing authority in austin is is the council And so again, there's different housing authorities that are different ways. Sometimes housing authorities are department upon the city so that That may be what's coming from Yeah, so I don't think that I don't think anybody has any problem with that. Is that the staff at the city has some staff that Can do that? We don't have staff We i'm not sure so yes, a partnership would be great and we can talk with city staff and yeah Just let me let me have ron talk to billy and see what what we can do Yeah, and I think for me if it's being recorded anyway, it's just a cut it's a carving out the the uh, the executive session and then billy figuring out how to take that and and get I mean and and yeah, that's That's that should be certain. They have to go anywhere. I don't think it's just a transfer profile if that can be done, I think your point was you don't know how clear it is and Yeah, I would think it's just I would think it's Start stop start We have people who know how to do that stuff My thinking is that there's probably a budget option available that checks a lot of boxes And leans on our expertise more than necessarily time and equipment and all that kind of stuff I bet we can figure out something that is helpful for everybody Yeah Okay, anything else All right, uh then I'll I'll if you can you're closing then I can close. I have what? Yeah, go right here 123 mayor was everyone in agreement though about meeting? I just want to make sure because I don't want to go surprise But we don't meet with you. Was there anyone that did disagree? I didn't see any any anyone that Will close the in-house authority board of commissioners meeting at 123 p.m Okay, and at 123 i'll conclude the city council meeting and we'll reconvene at four o'clock in council chambers. Thank you