1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 - Okay, it is nine o'clock and we do have a quorum, 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:11,520 so a call to order the public utility board meeting 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,800 for the city of Denton on Monday, October 24th, 2022. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,400 The first item is presentations from members of the public. 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,820 Is anyone from the public wish to speak? 6 00:00:21,820 --> 00:00:25,880 Seeing none, we'll move on to consent agenda. 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Does any board member wish to pull agenda items A through F? 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,720 Mr. Rybeck. 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,640 - I would like to pull agenda item C 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,880 as it's related to item B in our regular order of business. 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,500 - Okay, any others? 12 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:42,360 Okay, seeing none, do we have approval of A, B, D, E, 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,680 and F or a motion for approval? 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:45,680 - So moved. 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,520 - Okay, Larry's gonna move, Lee's gonna second. 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,160 All in favor say aye. 17 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:51,760 - Aye. - Opposed? 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,640 Carries. - Aye. 19 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,280 - Next item is consider approval of the October 10th, 2022 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,820 minutes, were there any corrections or changes? 21 00:00:59,820 --> 00:01:03,160 Do we have a motion to approve those minutes? 22 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,640 - So moved. - Barbara moves. 23 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,880 Then seconds, all in favor say aye. 24 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,200 - Aye. - Aye. 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,200 - And the third item, item B is to discuss with Kimley 26 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,280 Horner and Associates the design services for neighborhoods 27 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,980 two and six for capital projects and engineering. 28 00:01:20,980 --> 00:01:26,640 In the amount of $5,726,000. 29 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,440 - Perfect, thank you. 30 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,440 Let me get this pulled up really quick. 31 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:38,780 - Oh, I'm sorry, I got out of order. 32 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:42,120 Marcella, you didn't keep me in order. 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:42,960 Item C. 34 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:44,320 - I just assumed you were doing it here, 35 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,520 the item B, item C. 36 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,640 - So is that okay for us to include this as item B? 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:51,960 - I was hoping that we would, thank you. 38 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,560 - Okay, all right, very good. 39 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,520 (laughing) 40 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:56,960 Very good, go ahead. 41 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,320 - I'll do the design phase contract 42 00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:59,760 and then I do have a presentation 43 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,320 for the second contract as well. 44 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,560 So good morning board members, my name is Seth Garcia. 45 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,040 I'm a program manager in capital projects. 46 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,840 Today I have a brief presentation for you 47 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,160 for the design contract for neighborhoods two and six. 48 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,600 This project is associated with the 2019 49 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,120 street reconstruction bond. 50 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,120 So just a brief overview of the neighborhood. 51 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,040 So neighborhood two and six does contain 118 52 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,640 roadway segments. 53 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,160 It's kind of balanced by the limits 54 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,720 of Bonnie Bray on the West, University to the North, 55 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,140 Bolivar Street on the East and Interstate 35 to the South. 56 00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:39,400 It is our largest package associated 57 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,840 with the 2019 street reconstruction bond program. 58 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,800 We're looking to do roughly 56,000 linear feet 59 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,360 of roadway improvements. 60 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,940 And then as you can see about 30,000 linear feet 61 00:02:49,940 --> 00:02:52,820 of water and wastewater main replacements each. 62 00:02:52,820 --> 00:02:55,720 We will be performing a sidewalk connectivity assessment 63 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,160 with this project as well. 64 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,280 So we're looking at gaps, correcting ADA ramps, 65 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,920 those sorts of things for the sidewalk connectivity. 66 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,440 And we're also performing a street lighting photometric 67 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,760 study to look at additional street lighting install 68 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,560 with this package as well. 69 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,480 And I did wanna highlight this is our second 70 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,960 construction manager at risk project that we'll be doing. 71 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:15,880 - That was my question. 72 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,400 So when you say second construction manager 73 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,040 at risk project, could you give us a little definition? 74 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,320 - Yeah, so historically the city of Denton 75 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,760 has done projects two ways either competitive seal proposal 76 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,280 or a invitation for bid and IFB a low bid process. 77 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,020 Construction manager at risk is actually a process 78 00:03:34,020 --> 00:03:37,240 where we go through an RFP stage to where we bring 79 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,080 on our design consultant and our general contractor 80 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,440 at the same time. 81 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,440 Together through the design phase, 82 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,840 we work to design that project, 83 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,320 perform construction schedule sequencing, 84 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,440 and then we move towards a guaranteed maximum price. 85 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,600 So the construction manager at risk is still required 86 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,040 to competitive, excuse me, competitively bid the project 87 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,700 to subcontractors if they wish to self-perform the work. 88 00:04:02,700 --> 00:04:06,160 They can choose to bid on that work as well. 89 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,320 And then it's a best value selection process 90 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,080 to award the different packages. 91 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,520 - I think that's gonna answer my question 92 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,400 on the prior consent agenda item, 93 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,260 which is the general contractor pre-construction services. 94 00:04:18,260 --> 00:04:19,100 - Yes, sir. 95 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:21,600 - So that general contractor has been selected 96 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,680 as your construction manager at risk, 97 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,000 but not your general contractor. 98 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,800 - So they're one and the same. 99 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,200 So he is the construction manager at risk 100 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,520 and the general contractor, 101 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,040 so he will oversee all of the subcontracts. 102 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,020 He could perform different portions of the work 103 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:40,760 if he competitively wins those individual packages, 104 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,360 or he could win none of the work 105 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,440 and essentially just be the general contractor 106 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,740 and only receive the fee 107 00:04:45,740 --> 00:04:47,660 from the construction phase contract. 108 00:04:47,660 --> 00:04:49,200 - Okay, well, that answers my other question, 109 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,440 which is why were you hiring them before you had a design? 110 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,900 - So we bring them on together 111 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:55,600 because the idea behind CMAR 112 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,360 is they work together as a team. 113 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,740 So you're ultimately putting together a team 114 00:04:59,740 --> 00:05:02,160 that's gonna work through construction sequencing. 115 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,840 We wanna get feedback on, we have 118 roadway segments. 116 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:06,860 Where do you wanna start? 117 00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:09,400 What makes the most sense for the best place to start? 118 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,180 - So it's kind of an integrated design project 119 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:12,080 from that standpoint. 120 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,960 - Absolutely. 121 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,960 So it's really working with three brains is better than two, 122 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,240 especially bringing on the construction piece 123 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,680 to put together the best packages to construct. 124 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,740 And we also get open book cost modeling 125 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:26,080 from them through this. 126 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,520 - In a GMP project, right? 127 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:28,400 - Exactly. 128 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,480 So we're able, especially in all the market fluctuation 129 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,440 we're seeing, that's been a great tool to us 130 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,080 to see how we're actually gonna award this project 131 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,320 in different pieces. 132 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,400 - Okay, well, thank you very much. 133 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,600 I think that answers my questions on both pieces. 134 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,840 - Good, perfect. 135 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:43,760 - I have another question. 136 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:44,740 - Yes, sir. 137 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:46,880 - So you mentioned the sidewall connectivity assessment. 138 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,720 Is that to add ramps, repair existing? 139 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,860 Is it adding any new sidewalks? 140 00:05:53,860 --> 00:05:54,700 - So it's both. 141 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:55,520 - What is it? 142 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:56,360 - It's both. 143 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,960 So we're looking at existing ramps, 144 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,080 correcting those with the actual intersections 145 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,160 where we're working. 146 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,200 We're looking at sidewalks running parallel to the roadways, 147 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,760 whether or not they have deficiencies and need replacement. 148 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,600 And then we're also doing a kind of a gap assessment. 149 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,940 Are there sections that don't have sidewalks 150 00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:15,680 that need sidewalks? 151 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,600 This area encompasses a lot of University of North Texas. 152 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,440 So we will already have a lot of sidewalks identified 153 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:26,200 through our ADA plan that need sidewalks added to fill gaps. 154 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,040 So those will be done with this project 155 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,740 just through different funding sources. 156 00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:30,940 - Okay. 157 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:32,360 - Barbara had a question too. 158 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,360 - Yeah, I wanted to ask, this is the 2019 bond issue. 159 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,320 And considering the prices of what they are now 160 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,940 are infinitely greater, 161 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,620 how do you reconcile things like that? 162 00:06:45,620 --> 00:06:49,560 - So I may let finance speak to this a little bit too. 163 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,320 But one of the beauties of CMAR, like I said, 164 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,960 is there's open book cost modeling. 165 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,580 So we're looking at things such as value engineering. 166 00:06:55,580 --> 00:06:59,380 One of the things we did on our first CM at risk project 167 00:06:59,380 --> 00:07:01,040 in Southeast in package B 168 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,480 was we actually looked at a different subgrade section 169 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,600 than what the typical city standard was. 170 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,840 So our engineer performed an evaluation 171 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,320 and we are actually able to change 172 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,800 from 12 inches of lime treated subgrade 173 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,720 to eight inches of flake space. 174 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,880 It gave us the same roadway life 175 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,760 and decreased the cost by about $500,000 176 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,360 on that one package alone. 177 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,080 So we use different things like that 178 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,140 to find savings within the program. 179 00:07:26,140 --> 00:07:28,920 That is one of the benefits of CMAR. 180 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,120 Like I said, we look at value engineering ideas 181 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,940 from the construction manager. 182 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:35,680 We vet those through our internal stakeholders 183 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,840 and through the design engineer 184 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,200 to make sure we have savings. 185 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,460 As far as overall project funding, 186 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:45,640 we're utilizing some funds from the street fund 187 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,640 to help supplement the 2019 bond program. 188 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,880 And so far that has been sufficient enough 189 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,780 to cover our costs to date. 190 00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:55,680 - Thank you, Devin. 191 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,320 - A follow up regarding the sidewalk connectivity question. 192 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,400 Are you only evaluating the streets 193 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,960 where you're doing other work 194 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,880 or are you actually evaluating the entire neighborhood? 195 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,940 - So we're only working on the streets 196 00:08:09,940 --> 00:08:11,320 where we're actually doing work. 197 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:12,800 If we were to go through 198 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,960 and identify all of the sidewalks within the neighborhood, 199 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,240 the entire neighborhood, 200 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,480 our scope would grow to a point 201 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,920 to where it wouldn't really make sense 202 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,040 with our projects to do this. 203 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,760 So we're really focusing on the streets that we're touching, 204 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,080 kind of that holistic overview of those segments 205 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,520 and then looking at different ADA and sidewalk packages 206 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,840 for the streets that we may not be impacting. 207 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,960 - Okay, and this area not only has the university, 208 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,300 which has a lot of pedestrian traffic, 209 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:41,840 but it also has several schools 210 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,920 that are moving in the next few years. 211 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,280 - Absolutely. - And that's gonna impact 212 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,380 where that foot traffic is. 213 00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:49,080 Like right now, Newton Raiser is on Alice 214 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,800 and it will soon be on Fulton. 215 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:51,640 - Correct. 216 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,840 - There are lots and lots of ADA ramps on Alice, 217 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,820 but unfortunately Fulton is not, 218 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:58,840 not Alice, I'm sorry, Malone, 219 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,160 but unfortunately Fulton doesn't appear to be 220 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,920 on the plan here, so. 221 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,520 - And I'd just like to mention, 222 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,400 I'm Becky Davini, the city engineer. 223 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,840 We actually have a meeting today with DISD. 224 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,880 It's a three hour long work session 225 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,140 between planning, engineering, development services 226 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:18,680 to talk about these future projects, 227 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:20,880 but we meet monthly with the school district 228 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,800 and talk about where they're moving. 229 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,280 We know Newton Raiser moving, Calhoun's moving, 230 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:26,920 Denton High School's already moved. 231 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,680 So there's a lot of other things that go into it 232 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:30,480 besides just the sidewalks. 233 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,640 I mean, school zones need to be relocated. 234 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,480 There's multiple things that Brett Bouchois, 235 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,380 who's gonna make a presentation in a minute, 236 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:38,420 our deputy city engineer, his engineering team 237 00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:41,020 is a part of making sure those things are happening. 238 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:44,880 - Yes, go ahead, Larry. 239 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:45,840 - Thanks, Chair. 240 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,520 I didn't hear you mention anything about cycling lanes. 241 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,120 Are they part of this project? 242 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,560 - So that is something that we evaluate. 243 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,760 There are a few roadway segments that we're touching 244 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,280 that do have existing bike lanes. 245 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,460 So Welch, I believe portions of Scripture 246 00:10:00,460 --> 00:10:03,080 have some bike lanes further to the west 247 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,640 of where we're looking at. 248 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,480 That is something that we do evaluate. 249 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,600 - And these will be new lanes 250 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,480 or just upgrading existing lanes? 251 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,020 - So potentially both. 252 00:10:11,020 --> 00:10:12,920 We kind of leave it as an open book 253 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,960 going into the project to see what funding we'll allow for 254 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,240 with the different funding sources that we can pull from. 255 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,800 Also making sure that we have the roadway with 256 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,840 to be able to accommodate a new bike lane 257 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,280 or making sure we're putting improvements 258 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,640 to protect the existing bike lanes. 259 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:29,480 - Okay, thank you. 260 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:30,720 - Yes, sir. 261 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:31,560 - All right. 262 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:32,380 - Okay. 263 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,840 So a quick breakdown of the design costs. 264 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,480 So we broke this into two kind of separate packages. 265 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,460 The first being a lump sum package. 266 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:43,660 That is our preliminary and final design 267 00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:46,160 for the roadway and utilities. 268 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,360 Also our data collection. 269 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,320 So Topo survey, our geotechnical analysis 270 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,840 and our illumination art that photometric study 271 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,040 is also included as a lump sum cost. 272 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,360 Our hourly additional services include project management, 273 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,240 all those coordination meetings with the city 274 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,700 and the construction manager at risk. 275 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,880 Hours for our consultant to be at our public meetings 276 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,220 to answer questions. 277 00:11:09,220 --> 00:11:12,720 Level B and Level A Sue, the actual illumination design 278 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,580 and then of course our construction phase services as well. 279 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:18,880 So this contract will take everything on the design side 280 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,240 through the entire portions of the project. 281 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,040 - A quick question. 282 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:24,880 - Yes, sir. 283 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,120 - In the hourly services, you're including record drawings? 284 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:28,960 - Correct. 285 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,880 - Isn't that part of design service? 286 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:31,700 - It is. 287 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,000 - So record drawings are actually a second piece to it. 288 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,880 So we'll receive red lines from the actual contractor 289 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,080 and then they will make those two conformed as bills. 290 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,120 Exactly, correct. 291 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,960 That is correct. 292 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,720 Good question. 293 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:47,960 - Yes, very good question. 294 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,540 - So in total, our contract value is just over 5.7 million. 295 00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:56,440 So quickly for the project schedule, 296 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,520 with y'all's approval today, 297 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,800 we'll seek council approval for the design contract 298 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,360 and the CMAR contract on November 1st. 299 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,880 We are anticipating our first construction packages to GMP 300 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,000 and be ready sometime around quarter one, 2024. 301 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,280 And then of course we are trying to wrap up 302 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,080 all of the 2019 street reconstruction bond projects 303 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,200 by Q4 of 2026. 304 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,680 So this project being the biggest 305 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,760 is spanning the longest timeframe. 306 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,880 So we've got about four years to construct, 307 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,400 design and construct all 118 roadway segments. 308 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,960 So with that staff recommends adoption of the ordinance 309 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,720 with the city of Denton and Kimley horn 310 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,120 for a little over 5.7 million. 311 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,080 - Okay, thank you. 312 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:39,920 Other questions? 313 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,720 - I'm happy to answer any more questions. 314 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,180 - Yes, go ahead. 315 00:12:45,180 --> 00:12:47,880 - I would like to move that we accept item B 316 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,240 from the individual agenda and item C 317 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,580 from the consent agenda. 318 00:12:51,580 --> 00:12:54,720 - We have to do two different stuff. 319 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:55,720 - We cannot do them together? 320 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,720 - No, so you'd like to move to approve consent item C. 321 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,120 - And do we have a second? 322 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,040 Everybody's seconding? 323 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,520 All in favor say aye. 324 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:06,840 - Aye. 325 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,080 - Okay, do we have a motion to approve 326 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,420 the individual consideration item B? 327 00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:12,320 - Move that. 328 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,160 - Second. 329 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,260 - And Lee seconds, Ben moved. 330 00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:18,280 Larry second or Lee second, all in favor say aye. 331 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,280 - Aye. 332 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:20,360 - Carries. 333 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,200 - Thank y'all. 334 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,160 - Thank you. 335 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,000 Thank you, Marcel. 336 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:29,800 Next is item C, contract with Mountain Cascade of Texas LLC 337 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,160 for the construction of 35 E Mayhill Utility 338 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,160 Relocations Project in the amount of $15,897.15. 339 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:42,640 15 cents. 340 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,960 - Good morning council. 341 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:45,800 I'm Robin Davis. 342 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,560 I'm a project manager for Capital Projects. 343 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,400 And today we are asking you to approve the contract 344 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,620 with Mountain Cascade to relocate the water 345 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:57,800 and wastewater utilities along the I-35 corridor 346 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,360 between Mayhill and Loop 288. 347 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:07,980 So recently, TxDOT has acquired right away in the area 348 00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:10,840 so they can expand and widen I-35. 349 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,400 So it is our responsibility to move our utilities 350 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,400 out of their way. 351 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,040 And so this is a reimbursement project 352 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 that they will be re-reimbursing us for as well. 353 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:27,120 We pre-qualified three bidders for the project 354 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,140 so we could meet their anticipated schedule. 355 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:34,100 And we submitted the project to these three bidders 356 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:35,000 that were pre-qualified 357 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000 and the low bidder was Mountain Cascade. 358 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,920 So the project schedule would be, 359 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,040 if you guys approve this today, 360 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,920 we'll go to council for approval on November 1st. 361 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,260 We anticipate giving them a partial notice to proceed 362 00:14:51,260 --> 00:14:53,880 so they can begin ordering materials. 363 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,920 That is allowed through the TxDOT reimbursement agreement 364 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,120 we just can't allow them to actually start construction 365 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,720 onsite until the standard utility agreement 366 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,600 is fully executed by both the city and TxDOT. 367 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,080 So we anticipate giving them a partial notice to proceed. 368 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,520 Once council approves it in November 1st 369 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,280 and then in December, 370 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,040 once it's fully executed with the city and TxDOT, 371 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,040 then we'll issue them a full notice to proceed 372 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,880 so they can begin construction in early January. 373 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,880 And we expect the project to be complete 374 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:28,880 in September of 2023, right in time for them to let I-35. 375 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,560 So with the 5% contingency, 376 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,640 we expect a total estimated construction costs 377 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:36,880 of right at 15 million. 378 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,640 And with that, we just hope that you guys 379 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,120 will approve this contract. 380 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,600 The staff recommends it. 381 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:45,560 - Questions? 382 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,400 Go ahead, Devin. 383 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,040 - So what portion of this is paid by TxDOT 384 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,680 and what portion is paid by-- 385 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,720 - So all of it is paid by TxDOT except for the betterment, 386 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,240 which we are upgrading a portion of the 20-inch, 387 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,200 well, actually all of the 20-inch 388 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,520 to the 24-inch water line 389 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,240 in anticipation of our ever-growing city and needs. 390 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,680 And so the estimated cost of that is right around 747,000. 391 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,480 And that's the part that the portion 392 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,960 that the city will be responsible for. 393 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,520 - And we recently had some updates 394 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,000 on the upcoming sewer master plan. 395 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Does this area have any of the sewer lines 396 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,480 that run over to the Hickory Creek area 397 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,560 or are they in a different location? 398 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,720 - I believe the Hickory Creek area 399 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:32,720 would be a different location. 400 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,520 This is between Mayhill and Loop 288. 401 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,360 I think Hickory Creek is further south. 402 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,520 - Right, from the lift station on Hickory Creek. 403 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,640 I mean, there's a line, a major line 404 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,000 that runs from the lift station on Hickory Creek 405 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,440 up to the current wastewater treatment plant. 406 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:48,360 I didn't know if that was-- 407 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880 - So what we're relocating is in the same area. 408 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,200 It would still feed and go to the same places, 409 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,080 except we're just replacing it with a new line. 410 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,520 So I don't know if that answers your question, but-- 411 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,120 - Okay, so it doesn't sound like the sewer is impacted. 412 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,080 Thank you. - Okay. 413 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,440 - Go ahead, Lee. - Yes, sir. 414 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,040 - I just have a quick question. 415 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,280 So there's gonna be more expansion on I-35 416 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,160 or is this in relation to the expansion 417 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,040 that just was finished? 418 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,320 - No, there's more. 419 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,400 - More expansion, thank you. 420 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,240 - Always. 421 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,920 - I-35's been under construction for 40 years. 422 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,240 - Yeah. - Oh, longer. 423 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,800 Not since '69. - Okay, oh, okay. 424 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:24,880 (laughing) 425 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,720 Go ahead. 426 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,880 - Oh, just wanted to mention to that point, 427 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,400 this is only one of four contracts we'll be bringing forward. 428 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,280 I-35 is going to have expansion and widen 429 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,680 not only from Mayhill, 430 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,400 but all the way north to the county line. 431 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,200 So Robin's just delivering the first phase 432 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:43,880 of many phases of projects 433 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,520 that the utilities are going to be relocated. 434 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,440 We're going as far north as Milam Road. 435 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,000 - Wow, go ahead, Ben. 436 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,960 - Yeah, so I was wondering specifically 437 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,240 what side of the highway, 438 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,200 maybe businesses would be impacted, that sort of thing? 439 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,520 - So there were some businesses impacted. 440 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,960 We were going through parking lots like Chewy's, 441 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,720 places like that, but we've already acquired that right away 442 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,160 or the easements that was needed 443 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,640 and made those arrangements with them. 444 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:14,920 So that's all been taken care of 445 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,400 and TxDOT reimburses us for those costs as well. 446 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,240 - Okay. 447 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,240 - Are we experiencing the same 448 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:28,640 shortages of materials that we're seeing everywhere else? 449 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,480 Okay, so allowing them to go ahead and acquire-- 450 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,520 - That was the reason for the partial notice to proceed, 451 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,120 so they could go ahead and get a jumpstart 452 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,280 on ordering those materials. 453 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,240 - Good, that was my question. 454 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,600 All right, other questions? 455 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,440 - Yes, Barbara. 456 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,320 Do you have an idea that the county's got a bond thing 457 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,920 to vote on now for this election? 458 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,720 Where is the projected 288 coming into? 459 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,200 It's somehow along there. 460 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,640 - I believe, are you talking about 461 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,600 the north end of loop 288? 462 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,200 I believe that's gonna come out, 463 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,840 it's gonna just connect where loop 288 ends now 464 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,600 and I believe it's gonna come out over by 465 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,880 like the Ponder exit, is that right? 466 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:09,720 - Yeah. - Yeah. 467 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,880 - Okay, but there's not a further loop on that. 468 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,040 - Not that I'm aware of. 469 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,320 - Okay, thank you. 470 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,480 - All right. 471 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,000 Do we have a motion to approve item C? 472 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,720 Lee is moving. 473 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,160 - I'll second. 474 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,160 - Barbara second, all in favor say aye. 475 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,720 - Aye. - Aye. 476 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,240 - Thank you. 477 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,080 Item D. 478 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,960 - All right, I don't know how to get out of this. 479 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,520 - So Madam Chair and members of the PB, 480 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,840 so for your management reports, 481 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,760 we did include a dashboard, two dashboards 482 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,200 for June and July for the DEC. 483 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,960 Finance department is here, they've submitted that to you 484 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,720 if you have any questions on that. 485 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,800 - Questions? 486 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:50,640 - Nope. - Okay. 487 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,040 - All right, so going to your future agenda items 488 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,680 and also the new business items, 489 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,760 I did wanna point out that we have moved 490 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,120 the Green Sense program update to January 491 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,000 and the reason for that is that we did go 492 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,480 to the sustainability committee, 493 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,440 there was a number of questions that they had, 494 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,760 we are planning to go back to them, 495 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,640 I certainly wanna be respectful of the committee 496 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,160 and make sure that we kind of vet things out to them 497 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,480 before we come to you, 498 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,960 so that way when we come to you, 499 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,520 we'll have their recommendation, 500 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,880 we'll provide any backup that we provided to them to you, 501 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,320 I already sent the backup to you this morning, 502 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,840 or I will send it to you this morning, 503 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,560 what we sent to them in the initial presentation. 504 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,440 Within that presentation, there is an ISR 505 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,760 that does address some of the questions that you had, 506 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,120 certainly Mr. Beck and so if there's any questions on that, 507 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:38,640 please feel free to reach out to me, 508 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,480 but with that, no other changes to the items, 509 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,480 happy to answer any questions you may have. 510 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,880 - I don't see any questions. 511 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,320 All right, so concluding items, 512 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,360 does any board member wish to have anything 513 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:55,720 put on a future agenda item 514 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,960 or have anything to say to the public? 515 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,240 Mr. Rybak. - I have a question, 516 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,160 Madam Chairman. - Okay. 517 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,840 - I'm looking forward to those dates on the future agenda. 518 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,800 We have some dates upcoming in November and December. 519 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,720 The December meeting, second December meeting 520 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,840 would occur on the Monday following Christmas, 521 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,320 which is the observed holiday. 522 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,800 And next month, our meeting, fourth meeting, 523 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,480 or fourth Monday is the Monday after Thanksgiving. 524 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,280 Are we planning to have those meetings? 525 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,120 - We typically only have the second Monday 526 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:30,680 in November and December. 527 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,520 - Thank you. - That's what 528 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,400 our schedule is saying right now. 529 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,240 - Very good, thank you. 530 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,440 Well, this shows up on my calendar 531 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,080 that I saw that day that reminded me. 532 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:37,920 - Oh, okay. - Thank you. 533 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,120 - The second Monday? 534 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:40,680 - So it'll be the, 535 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,200 our next PUB board meeting is November 14th, 536 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,880 and then we have one on December 12th. 537 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,880 Did I, I said that right? 538 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,800 Yeah, it's the second Monday. 539 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,560 - We'll have, Kim will take a look at them 540 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,520 and if they're still on your calendar, 541 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,720 she'll get them removed. 542 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,040 - Okay. 543 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,200 All right, then we'll move into the work session. 544 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,240 The first one is receive a report, 545 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,160 hold a discussion and give staff direction 546 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,080 regarding the water and wastewater impact study fee, 547 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,080 impact fee study. 548 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,760 - It's kind of a tongue twister. 549 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,520 Good morning, Chair, PUB members, 550 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,040 Nick Benson, Assistant Director of Finance. 551 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,440 Wanted to do a really quick introduction. 552 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,160 I'll turn it over to our consultants 553 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,080 helping us update this study. 554 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,560 So we do have April here with us from Kimberly Horn. 555 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,400 - Good morning. - We have John here with us, 556 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,960 sitting right here, just wave your hand, John, there you go. 557 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,160 Then Trent, Trent's sitting over here also. 558 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,520 So great individuals to work with. 559 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,960 They've been working with us about a month 560 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,440 to update this study. 561 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Definitely have a good presentation for you today. 562 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,480 So if you have questions, please let them know. 563 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,600 I can return to the podium 564 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,000 if there's something else you have a question on 565 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,760 or of course we have water people here also. 566 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,880 So let me get the presentation pulled up really quick. 567 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,800 Okay, April, come on up and I'll get it ready for you. 568 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,000 Okay, there's a keyboard here if you need it, 569 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,320 otherwise you can just click. 570 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,160 - Thank you. 571 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,880 Public utility board, 572 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,280 thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today. 573 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,000 We have a water and wastewater impact fee study update. 574 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,960 This is the very start. 575 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,040 From an outline perspective, 576 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,800 we will provide an objective, 577 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,800 run through some impact fee basics, 578 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,200 as well as the capital improvements advisory committee, 579 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,560 the service area update and a few next steps coming up. 580 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,080 So as far as our objective today, 581 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,840 we really want to provide an overview 582 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,400 of the capital improvements advisory committee, 583 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,600 as well as present upcoming updates to the impact fee study 584 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,360 related to the service areas for water and wastewater. 585 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:48,880 So some of the basics. 586 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,720 When it comes to an impact fee study, 587 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,880 some of the components that are included 588 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,960 include taking analysis of a service area, 589 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,680 then leading into land use assumptions related to growth, 590 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,080 then calculating service units, 591 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,800 as well as analyzing capital improvements plan 592 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,640 and identifying an impact fee capital improvements plan, 593 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,920 and finally concluding with an impact fee calculation. 594 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,320 For today's presentation, 595 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,480 we'll be focusing on the service areas alone. 596 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Chapter 395's definition for an impact fee, 597 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,640 it is essentially a one-time fee for future development. 598 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,600 It is a mechanism to recover infrastructure costs 599 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,120 required to serve the future development. 600 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,080 From a general funding perspective, 601 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,640 impact fees is another mechanism 602 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,520 to recover costs related to infrastructure. 603 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,200 So you can have water and sewer rates, 604 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,240 private sector participation, and finally impact fees. 605 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,360 However, impact fees are associated with infrastructure 606 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,360 necessitated only by new growth, 607 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,880 and that's what it can be applied to. 608 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,000 So items that cannot be payable through impact fees. 609 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,680 What can be paid for through an impact fee program 610 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,360 include construction costs for the capital improvements plan 611 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,160 that's identified in the study, 612 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,160 and this can include, of course, on the roadway side, 613 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,280 any thoroughfare plans for water, 614 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,680 we're looking at up-sized water and wastewater lines, 615 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,680 as well as survey and engineering fees, 616 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,280 land acquisition costs, and even planning studies 617 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,680 such as the impact fee study itself. 618 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,360 What cannot be paid for through impact fees 619 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,880 are administrative costs such as staff time, 620 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,400 or if not, upgrades to serve existing development. 621 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,760 Once again, this is all related to new growth. 622 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,680 So benefits to developers when it comes to impact fees. 623 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,720 For one, it is equitable, 624 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,040 meaning barring existing ordinances that are in place, 625 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,520 the development itself pays an equal fee, 626 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,200 whether it's first to develop or last to develop. 627 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,880 It is also predictable. 628 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,040 The fee schedules are generally uploaded online, 629 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,440 so therefore, developers can also rely on the study itself 630 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,680 to make decisions about when, where, and what to build. 631 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,880 It also ensures the accountability. 632 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,160 State law requires that impact fees 633 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,560 are spent within a certain amount of time, 634 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,480 as well as, or if not, it will be refunded 635 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,160 to those property owners. 636 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,800 And it's also proportional. 637 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,200 It is directly related to the amount of demand 638 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,280 that's generated by that said development. 639 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,000 So the role of the Capital Improvements Advisory Committee 640 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,120 from Chapter 395 has a local government, 641 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,480 it's the local government code that requires the city 642 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,280 to establish the Capital Improvements Advisory Committee 643 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,640 when updating impact fees. 644 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,680 Since 2003, the city of Denton 645 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,160 has appointed the Planning and Zoning Commission 646 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,040 and one ad hoc member from the Extraterritorial, 647 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,880 if bless you, jurisdiction to serve as the CIAC. 648 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,880 So the Planning and Zoning Commission 649 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,600 may act as that advisory committee 650 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,640 if it meets these particular items. 651 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,040 So for one, the commission must include 652 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,080 at least one representative of the real estate development 653 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,800 or building industries who are not employees 654 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,400 of the political subdivision or the governmental entity, 655 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,880 as well as one representative 656 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,000 of the Extraterritorial jurisdiction, the ETJ. 657 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,040 So currently, the existing Planning and Zoning Commission 658 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,160 meets these requirements listed above, 659 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,720 except for one representative of the ETJ, 660 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,720 which we will discuss in our next steps. 661 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,680 So the Capital Improvements Advisory Committee 662 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,680 is tasked to review and provide comments to city council 663 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,680 and the public utility boards on the land use assumptions, 664 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,400 the Impact V Capital Improvements Plan, 665 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,200 as well as the impact fees. 666 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,440 And in between that time, during the future updates, 667 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,720 since the impact fee study is itself required by law 668 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,640 to be updated every five years, which is why we're here, 669 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,840 it is also tasked to monitor and evaluate the Impact VCIP, 670 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,880 as well as file semi-annual reports 671 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,040 and advise as needed on revisions. 672 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,280 Now, the Public Utilities Board, as well as the city council, 673 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720 will then review the same documents 674 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,600 and also consider comments provided 675 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,360 by the advisory committee, 676 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,320 and finally consider any recommended updates 677 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,680 between those five-year updates in time. 678 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,400 So as part of our objective, 679 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,000 we're reviewing the service area breakdown, 680 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,840 and we're giving you a few updates. 681 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,880 A service area establishes the boundary 682 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,840 to which funds can be collected and specifies areas 683 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,800 to be served by the Impact VCIP. 684 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,760 Now, these funds are collected, 685 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,000 and they must be spent within that said service area 686 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,760 within 10 years. 687 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,760 In 2018, these are the existing service areas. 688 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320 For wastewater, it's one single service area, 689 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,560 and for water, three separate service areas. 690 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,880 You had your inner city core area, the surrounding, 691 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,320 which is 1B, and then 2, 692 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,280 which is the southwest regional growth. 693 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,560 So updates that are coming through, 694 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,600 and we're gonna kind of walk through each of this. 695 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,320 Currently, what's shown here are the existing city limits, 696 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,240 as well as the existing ETJ. 697 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,760 What's shown here in black and black hatch mark 698 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,600 are the planned or probable developments 699 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,280 that are within the water CCN boundary, 700 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,280 as well as externally out towards the ETJ. 701 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,240 As part of the 2018 study, 702 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,120 you can see here that we have, 703 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,920 we're at least proposing to expand 704 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,520 for the 2020-2023 update out past the ETJ, 705 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,080 which chapter 395 does allow, 706 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,560 out to basically cover all the probable development 707 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,880 that will be coming in. 708 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,400 And so another component that we've been discussing 709 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,120 with staff, as far as even with capital projects 710 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,520 that will be coming in, 711 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,440 since water itself had three service areas, 712 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,720 we're proposing to both have the wastewater also equal, 713 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,400 mirror the water study as well, 714 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,840 in which both the water and wastewater 715 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,120 will have equal service areas, as shown here. 716 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,640 Yes. 717 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,480 Sorry. 718 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,440 - For me, it would be so much easier 719 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,000 if you would put the 2018 and the 2023 side by side. 720 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,840 - Absolutely. 721 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,680 - So that you could compare 722 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,280 because you're flipping back and forth, 723 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,160 trying to see the difference. 724 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,000 - Yeah. 725 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,440 - And it just be, 726 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,600 I would find it a lot easier, 727 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,960 I don't know if anyone else would, but I would. 728 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,800 - Yeah, would that be helpful? 729 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,120 - So on the-- 730 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:08,960 - Go ahead. 731 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:09,800 - Yes. 732 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:13,880 So the wastewater, 733 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,120 I'm sorry, what are they, regions? 734 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:17,960 - Service areas. 735 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,920 - Service areas, okay. 736 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,120 So the wastewater service areas, 737 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,860 you've aligned them with the water service areas. 738 00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:25,920 However, there will be different infrastructure 739 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,320 providing services to each of these zones. 740 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,160 - Correct. 741 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,160 - And I wonder if it wouldn't be more appropriate 742 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,720 to align that region two, zone two, excuse me, 743 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,720 with the Hickory Creek wastewater service area. 744 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,240 So that we don't have a development, 745 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,320 like there are all these little blue fingers of 1B 746 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,960 that reach down into the Hickory Creek watershed. 747 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,840 And those will be provided sewer service 748 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,720 by the future Hickory Creek infrastructure. 749 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,480 But they will be paying a fee 750 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,140 based on the Pecan Creek kind of service zone. 751 00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:08,120 So I just think it might make more sense. 752 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,380 And I appreciate aligning water and wastewater, 753 00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:14,800 but there really might be differences in incurred costs 754 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,960 based on the future infrastructure 755 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,860 for wastewater versus water. 756 00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:22,320 - Yeah, so part of the study, 757 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,960 we do look at each of the capital projects that are proposed. 758 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,160 And if they do happen to cross, say, 759 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,720 two separate service areas, 760 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,640 there will be proportional percentages applied 761 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,440 to each one of those capital projects 762 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,240 to cover, say, if it were to be split 763 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,200 between service areas two, as well as 1B. 764 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,360 And that will be part of the analysis to confirm that. 765 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,600 - Right, I don't mean pieces of property 766 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:43,420 that cross the line. 767 00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:47,640 I'm saying that it appears on this map 768 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,920 that there's an area near I-35W, 769 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,340 where the small blue section of 1B reaches down 770 00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:57,200 into section two. 771 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,000 And that appears to be south of Hickory Creek. 772 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,060 So it will definitely be on the Hickory Creek sewer system. 773 00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:10,080 But it's in the kind of Pecan Creek zone 774 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,200 so just, if we know that this certain corridor 775 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,000 is going to be provided services 776 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,440 by a large future capital project, 777 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,200 we might want to go ahead and align those zones now. 778 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,720 - Absolutely, and I believe John also wants to mention 779 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,560 some of the things. 780 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,840 (man speaking off mic) 781 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,360 Yeah, yes. 782 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,200 Come on through. 783 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:40,280 - First of all, you're making a very good point. 784 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,640 That's one thing that's unique 785 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,440 about wastewater infrastructure as compared to the water. 786 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,160 It is kind of basin-specific 787 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,860 as far as the infrastructure needs. 788 00:32:48,860 --> 00:32:51,280 It's a discussion. 789 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,920 If you're making a very good suggestion, 790 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,640 I think we can take that back down, 791 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,280 to take that to city staff 792 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,160 and see if that is a suggestion 793 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,000 that they want to consider as far as the adjustments. 794 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,920 This is one proposal to just make water and sewer 795 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,440 consistent with each other 796 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,960 as compared to what was in the past. 797 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,760 So, if there needs to be further discussion 798 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,260 about what makes the most sense 799 00:33:13,260 --> 00:33:16,680 as far as the significant amount of infrastructure, 800 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,320 you're right, if you think about south, 801 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,100 sorry, I won't step away, I'll just point here. 802 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:25,840 You're right, if you think about the area south, 803 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,640 just like the point you were making, 804 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,840 south of I-35, that's not in service area two, 805 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,680 but is in service area 1B, 806 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,960 that is in the Hickory Creek Basin, 807 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,560 you are talking about infrastructure 808 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,540 within the Hickory Creek Basin 809 00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:44,880 that actually toggles between two. 810 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120 And we know that a big portion of the infrastructure 811 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,000 from a growth perspective is related to the areas 812 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,000 you kind of see here in two, but also relate. 813 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640 So, it is somewhat complicated, I guess, 814 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,640 if you could say, and we're taking that into account 815 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,880 with the basin boundaries you see here, 816 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,540 or the service area boundaries you see here. 817 00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:09,280 But I think it's just, we hear you, 818 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,940 we take your comment under advisement, 819 00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:14,200 and then I think we just go back to city staff 820 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,500 and talk to them about that, 821 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:18,720 and see if that's something they should bring forward. 822 00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:19,860 - Thank you. 823 00:34:19,860 --> 00:34:21,960 - Excellent, thank you, John. 824 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,240 - Awesome, real quick. - Thank you, absolutely. 825 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:26,700 - To Ms. Rosso's question, is it true 826 00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:31,120 that the dotted line around is the 2018 boundary? 827 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,240 - So-- - Looking at the other map, 828 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:35,080 it looks like that, yes. - Yes, let me, 829 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,560 I'm gonna back up for a second, right over here. 830 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,560 So, what we're seeing here for 2018, 831 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,380 we took into account the CCN boundary, 832 00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:48,120 and that did develop part of the impact fee service area. 833 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,900 There are portions that are outside of the CCNs themselves, 834 00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:54,320 but that was considered as part of the study, 835 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,160 since Chapter 395 does allow us to go out towards the ETJ. 836 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,880 But for the most part, yes it does. 837 00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:06,680 - All right, are there any more questions between that 838 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,800 and the proposed service area for 2022? 839 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:14,320 All right, we're gonna go ahead and continue. 840 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,040 So, some of the next steps. 841 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,960 We will also be presenting the same presentation. 842 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,480 We will take into account, of course, 843 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,960 we'll make that address, and we'll discuss that. 844 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,280 We'll also show the 2018 and 2022 proposed updates 845 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,280 side by side for the potential developer town hall meeting 846 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,680 that's coming up this Thursday that we'll be attending. 847 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,240 And then related through spring and fall 2023, 848 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:39,200 we will be coming forward to establish 849 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,680 the capital improvements advisory committee 850 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,120 that adopts the ordinance to identify the ad hoc ETJ member, 851 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,360 as well as come forward with the advisory committee meetings 852 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,480 to then, of course, receive some of their comments 853 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,680 and feedback. 854 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,460 We'll be also meeting again related 855 00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:54,920 to the actual adoption process, 856 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,320 once we have all of our analysis completed 857 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,800 with the public utilities board, 858 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,640 and then, finally, complete the entire study process 859 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,360 and adopt through the city council meetings. 860 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,920 So, with that, are there any additional questions 861 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,740 related to these proposed updates? 862 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:11,720 - Go ahead. 863 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:12,540 - Yes. 864 00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:15,160 - What's the date of the developer town hall meeting? 865 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,160 - This Thursday? 866 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,520 From 10 a.m.? 867 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,120 - 10 to 11. - 10 to 11 a.m. 868 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,720 - At the Development Services Center. 869 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,600 So, it's this Thursday from 10 to 11 870 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,400 at the Development Services Center, 871 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,240 if you want to attend that meeting. 872 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:33,040 - Yeah, can anyone attend those? 873 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,160 - Yeah, I think everybody's welcome to attend. 874 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,360 If you want to attend, we welcome you there, 875 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,660 anybody, or the entire board, if you'd like to. 876 00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:40,880 Well, actually, if the entire board come, 877 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,340 I guess it may be a quorum, but-- 878 00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:43,680 (laughing) 879 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,800 Ms. Russell, you can attend the meeting, absolutely, yeah. 880 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,740 - Okay, is that the one off Mingo? 881 00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:52,640 - It's actually just right down here. 882 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,640 I don't know exactly what the address is, but-- 883 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,800 - 401 North Elm. 884 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,360 - 401 North Elm. 885 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,440 Is the address, the brand new building 886 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,960 we constructed a couple years ago. 887 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,440 - The old Kroger. 888 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,840 - Yes. (laughing) 889 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,840 - Right, well, safely before that. 890 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,280 - Mr. Taylor, oh. (laughing) 891 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,880 Mr. Taylor has another question. 892 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,080 - Thank you, yeah, I really, this is more of a comment, 893 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,080 I previously served on PNZ two impact fee updates ago, 894 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,160 and I understand that we are more recipients of the process, 895 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,480 we're a smaller approval in the chain 896 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,640 than I think PNZ kind of has the leading role there, 897 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,760 and as always comes up, this impact fees 898 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,400 are really important to be fair to new development 899 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,560 and to existing residents. 900 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,760 Any infrastructure not paid for by impact fees 901 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,000 gets paid for by the existing tax base, 902 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,080 and we don't want to overcharge 903 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,080 or create unnecessarily hurdles for new neighborhoods, 904 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,280 but we also don't want to have existing neighborhoods 905 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,320 bear the burden of new development. 906 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,800 And so that's where I think if we can align the region 907 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,120 of the zones and the fees based on what infrastructure 908 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,480 they will use, that just creates greater fairness 909 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,600 for existing rate payers and for future developments. 910 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,980 You might have, well, I'm gonna be using 911 00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:22,440 Hickory Creek water treatment plant that doesn't exist yet, 912 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,400 but I can pay the lower fee over here 913 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,720 'cause I'm on this side of the street 914 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,040 versus that development, that farm over there developing, 915 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,120 you know, might have a higher fee. 916 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,680 So I just wanna-- - Good point. 917 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,680 - As much for members of this board as for staff, 918 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,760 I'm sure is already aware and our consultants, 919 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,920 that we wanna make this process as fair as possible 920 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,460 to all development and all existing residents. 921 00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:50,120 - Goodbye. - Yeah. 922 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,440 - Mr. Taylor, that's a great point. 923 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,920 At these future conversations that are noted on this slide, 924 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,440 that's the very conversation we can have 925 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,880 with the Public Utility Board and City Council. 926 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,640 In 2018, the City Council elected to adopt the max fee 927 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,280 or the full recovery fee. 928 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,740 That's currently what's in place now. 929 00:39:05,740 --> 00:39:08,160 So as we continue the study and we work through it 930 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,920 and actually calculate the fee per SFE, 931 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,160 that we can have those conversations 932 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:13,640 that you're talking about, absolutely. 933 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,960 But the purpose of the study is to make sure 934 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,560 that it's fair across the city. 935 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,020 - Okay, other questions, Mr. Ryback. 936 00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:23,540 - I don't have a question, but I do have a comment. 937 00:39:23,540 --> 00:39:26,560 I wonder if it might be advisable for us to consider 938 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,320 once there is a Capital Improvement Advisory Committee, 939 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,040 some joint meetings between the PUB and CIAC. 940 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,200 That way, these things wouldn't be coming to us cold, 941 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,200 if you will, from the Advisory Committee. 942 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,760 So it might be something worth considering for the future. 943 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,680 - We can go ahead and take a look at that. 944 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,000 And if that's something we can do, we'll try to set it up. 945 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,800 - Yeah, I'm not suggesting we do it every time 946 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,000 they have a meeting, but it might be quarterly 947 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,360 or twice a year or something. 948 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,480 We can kind of catch up with what they're-- 949 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:55,560 - Some check-in points. 950 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:56,680 - Yes, ma'am. 951 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,520 And I want to compliment you, Mr. Taylor, 952 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,280 on your questions, 'cause I had the same one 953 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,400 about that remote area that was separated from the rest. 954 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,240 So thank you. 955 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:06,400 - Absolutely. 956 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,320 All right, but not, thank you. 957 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,540 - Thank you. 958 00:40:10,540 --> 00:40:13,000 All right, next we have receive a report, 959 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,560 hold a discussion, and provide suggestions 960 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,300 or recommendations regarding updates 961 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:19,860 to the City of Denton criteria manuals. 962 00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:36,720 - Good morning, everybody. 963 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,840 Thank you for allowing me to come and present to you. 964 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,920 My name is Brett Bourgeois. 965 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,280 I am the Deputy City Engineer in the Capital Projects 966 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,440 Engineering Department. 967 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,480 And I'm here today to talk about our criteria manual updates. 968 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,280 The agenda is we're gonna go through our public outreach 969 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,920 plan that we have for this, including today's meeting, 970 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,560 background about the criteria manual 971 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,960 and the process that we went through this year, 972 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,400 run through some of the high-level updates 973 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,240 that we've had for the criteria manuals this year, 974 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,400 and then what our next steps are going forward. 975 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,760 I also have an attendance of technical experts 976 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,640 from every department and discipline 977 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,800 related to the criteria manual 978 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,840 for any detailed questions you may have. 979 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,760 So for our public outreach plan, as you can see, 980 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,100 we have a pretty extensive program in place. 981 00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:22,080 We went to a planning and zoning commission 982 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,400 earlier this month. 983 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,480 We had a developer town hall as well a couple weeks ago. 984 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,720 We updated the criteria manuals online, 985 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,400 posted draft versions of them with the feedback form 986 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,080 for the community and the public to comment on. 987 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,800 We updated the city council via Friday report item, 988 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,840 and now we're here, basically in the middle of the process, 989 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,560 laying out our updates to you guys 990 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,680 and for your comments and feedback. 991 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,920 We also have several other meetings planned 992 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,960 to present to the Engineering Society, 993 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,600 do a further update to city council 994 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,640 after we receive comments from the public, 995 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,360 and then eventually bring this forward 996 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,880 to city council for adoption 997 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,280 and effective date of January 1st. 998 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,980 So a little bit of background on what we did. 999 00:42:02,980 --> 00:42:07,000 Our criteria manuals are, it's a big process. 1000 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,180 So we have a lot of different disciplines. 1001 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:10,760 They cover different areas. 1002 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,360 We started staff review of these documents 1003 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,820 in April of last year, or of this year. 1004 00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:19,800 We met once a week, every Thursday from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m. 1005 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,500 We had representatives, every department arrive. 1006 00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:24,280 We met from April all the way through July, 1007 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,560 going through every criteria manual, every discipline, 1008 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,200 every line by line to look at where we are. 1009 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,160 We're now going out to do comments to the public 1010 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:35,960 with what our recommendations are. 1011 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,000 We're gonna make these updates. 1012 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,600 We're gonna inform everybody 1013 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,280 and bring it back for the council. 1014 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,720 And one of the things that we realized 1015 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:43,560 by going through these updates 1016 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,560 is that we have four different criteria manuals, 1017 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,640 which is not consistent with what we have 1018 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,520 for our development code, where we have one code document. 1019 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,560 And all of our criteria manuals are formatted differently. 1020 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,400 It's a little bit structured differently. 1021 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,100 And we have information that's repeated 1022 00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:01,600 across multiple manuals, and we have to keep that consistent 1023 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:02,940 as we make changes. 1024 00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:05,320 So one of our future goals is to combine 1025 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,600 all these manuals into one document 1026 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,360 with different chapters and have the consistent information 1027 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,080 in one place, be consistent with the development code, 1028 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,320 and eliminate all the conflicts we have. 1029 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,600 - Mr. Beck. - Thank you, Chair. 1030 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,920 How do you break down those four criteria manuals? 1031 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,880 You got subdivision development, streets, 1032 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:22,800 how is that broken down? 1033 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,600 - Actually, it's broken down on transportation-related topics 1034 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,560 with the Transportation Criteria Manual. 1035 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,680 We have a Water Wastewater Criteria Manual. 1036 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,400 We have a Solid Waste Criteria Manual. 1037 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,240 And then we also have a Storm Drain, 1038 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:36,920 and Drain and Trigger Criteria Manual. 1039 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:37,840 - Okay, thanks. 1040 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:44,840 - So a little bit of guidance or background 1041 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,720 on the governing documents of the city. 1042 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,380 We have the Denton Development Code, 1043 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:51,060 which sets the policy and the procedures 1044 00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:52,440 for all the developments. 1045 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,040 That's basically the city's roadmap. 1046 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,380 But the criteria manuals outline the technical 1047 00:43:58,380 --> 00:44:01,040 and the design criteria for these developments, 1048 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,520 for these projects, for everything 1049 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,760 that's being built within the city. 1050 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,120 So we're making sure we're getting the right types of pipe, 1051 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,800 we're having the right roadway sections, 1052 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,680 we're having everything that we need 1053 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,640 the way that we need it for the city. 1054 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,640 Then we also have our standard details 1055 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,600 and our construction specifications. 1056 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,480 That outlines how to actually build it, 1057 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,720 and then drawings of what it's supposed 1058 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:21,060 to look like in the field. 1059 00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:25,120 And again, this is kind of another breakdown of it. 1060 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,640 The Denton Development Code is overriding document, 1061 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,080 guidance document. 1062 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,160 Criteria manuals set the design requirements 1063 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,640 for those documents. 1064 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,320 The specifications of how you build it, 1065 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,960 and then the standard details showing 1066 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,760 what it's supposed to look like out in the field 1067 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,960 to actually construct it. 1068 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,480 So going into a little bit of the updates, 1069 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,080 the solid waste criteria manual 1070 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,640 actually has a complete rewrite done last year 1071 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,200 as part of the update. 1072 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,080 The previous version of it I believe was completed in 2008, 1073 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,280 so it needed a pretty good revision, overhaul of it. 1074 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,280 So this year, because we had a full rewrite of it last year, 1075 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,200 had very minor updates to it. 1076 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,520 One of the things that they took out from the 2008 update 1077 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,920 to the 2021 update was they removed the opening paragraph, 1078 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,480 which outlined that the city was the sole provider 1079 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,780 of all solid waste and recycling in the city of Denton, 1080 00:45:13,780 --> 00:45:16,080 including construction activities. 1081 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,760 And so they actually had questions about that, 1082 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,320 so we added that opening paragraph back into this document 1083 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,160 to make it clear that everything for solid waste 1084 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,120 needs to go through the city of Denton. 1085 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:32,020 As well as that, there's different enclosure requirements 1086 00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:35,800 for different types of dwellings, multifamily dwellings, 1087 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,640 and it gives a couple of options for them. 1088 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,080 And one of the ones they wanted to add 1089 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,320 was add an additional roll-off compactor enclosure 1090 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,160 as an option for one of the larger multifamilies. 1091 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,920 That way, it gives more variety for them. 1092 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,400 And then we also revised the minimum alley width. 1093 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,280 And we actually reduced it down to 15 feet. 1094 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,680 We're still requiring the 20 feet of right-of-way dedication, 1095 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,720 but we reduced the minimum pavement section down to 15 feet 1096 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,600 because that gives us space to actually go in 1097 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,920 and do maintenance or replace the alleyway. 1098 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,360 If you have a 20-foot alleyway, 1099 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,700 paved section with a 20-foot right-of-way, 1100 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:13,520 you have no room to actually do any work. 1101 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,200 You're up against the boundaries 1102 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,200 where your right-of-way limits are. 1103 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,800 You have to get temporary access easements 1104 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,360 and it makes it a lot more difficult. 1105 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,760 So we actually reduced that down, 1106 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,960 and that's consistent with our transportation criteria manual. 1107 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,760 - Mr. Taylor, yes. 1108 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:33,600 - So I had heard that the City of Denton 1109 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,600 is the sole solid waste provider for years. 1110 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,680 And I do see these usually construction roll-off dumpsters 1111 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,960 that are branded yellow and black or red and white. 1112 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:50,080 Is there any kind of enforcement mechanism to that rule? 1113 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,440 - We actually have a representative from the solid waste here 1114 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:54,640 to answer your question. 1115 00:46:54,640 --> 00:47:01,600 - Good morning. 1116 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,680 I'm Adrian Hill, Operations Manager 1117 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,080 for the Solid Waste and Recycling Department. 1118 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,840 Actually, we're working on Chapter 24 1119 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,760 to update that process. 1120 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,960 Right now, there's nothing we can enforce 1121 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,080 an outside vendor coming in, 1122 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,400 but we're in the process of, 1123 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,880 I think it starts here with having that wording 1124 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,520 in our site criteria manual. 1125 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,280 - So Chapter 24, is that part of the solid waste guide? 1126 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,400 - It's not part of the criteria manual at all. 1127 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,280 - Okay, okay. 1128 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,280 Yeah, like I said, I've heard that for a decade or more 1129 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,240 and see these branded dumpsters and stuff like that. 1130 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:37,480 So I was always curious, 1131 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,880 why aren't they getting, I don't know, 1132 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,040 worn or sited or something? - We're in that process. 1133 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,480 - Okay, thank you. - Thank you. 1134 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,600 - Question? 1135 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,520 Yeah, oh, Barbara, oh, you didn't. 1136 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,120 What do you do for areas that there is not a, 1137 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,640 that they weren't required to have a dumpster enclosed? 1138 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:58,800 - In the past? 1139 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,800 - Yes, and now they decide to make a change. 1140 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,080 You require them to put an enclosure, 1141 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,160 but there's no room for an enclosure. 1142 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,280 How do you handle that? 1143 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,560 - So in the site criteria manual, 1144 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,960 it states that anything that's 50% or greater 1145 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,160 of the existing square footage of the building, 1146 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,520 they'll have to redesign it 1147 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,840 where they have to include an enclosure. 1148 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,680 But everything that's done in the past, 1149 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,920 if there's not any remodeling done 50% or more, 1150 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,240 they keep what they have. 1151 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:31,760 - So it'll be grandfathered? - Correct. 1152 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,080 - Yeah, okay. - Yeah. 1153 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:39,640 - Oh, I'm gonna ask, go ahead, Barbara. 1154 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,320 I have one more question, so you go first. 1155 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,720 - I was thinking about paved alleys. 1156 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:48,160 There are areas in Denton that they used to use 1157 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,160 to collect the trash coming down the alleys, 1158 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,600 and then they decided they wouldn't do that anymore. 1159 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,280 They go down the streets. 1160 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:57,760 But the alleys are still there. 1161 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,000 Who's responsible for taking care of those? 1162 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,240 - Go ahead. - Yeah. 1163 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:07,160 - So the alleyways is actually a pretty complicated topic, 1164 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,480 and mainly it's because there's private alleys, 1165 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,080 and then there's public alleys. 1166 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,200 So it depends on the development of the location 1167 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,600 in terms of who's supposed to maintain those. 1168 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,200 And that's something that's a bigger conversation 1169 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,680 that is an ongoing one with the new development 1170 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:21,600 in the coal ranch area, 1171 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,440 because they are wanting to put alleyways in there as well. 1172 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,760 So it's a city-wide conversation 1173 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,200 that we're having on that right now. 1174 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,120 - Yeah, because if the city was using them, 1175 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,160 and then they're not. 1176 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,520 - Yeah, and that's basically the conversation 1177 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,960 is that a lot of the private developments put alleyways in, 1178 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,280 and they're identified as a private street. 1179 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,240 So they're not designed and constructed necessarily 1180 00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:44,880 to the city standard. 1181 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,320 At the same time, we have heavy vehicles, 1182 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,960 service vehicles driving on those alleyways, 1183 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,280 which are the ones causing the most wear and tear. 1184 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,760 So then is it the city's responsibility to maintain those 1185 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,800 and replace those, and if that's the case, 1186 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,880 the city now inherits hundreds of miles 1187 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,440 of additional roadway, which we need to account for 1188 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,080 and pay for and maintain. 1189 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,560 So like I said, it's a much bigger conversation 1190 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,360 that's kind of beyond the scope of this conversation. 1191 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,920 It's more of a policy-level discussion. 1192 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:12,960 - Thank you. 1193 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,200 - And my question is simple. 1194 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,480 So the second bullet, that's an option. 1195 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,000 That's not a requirement. 1196 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,360 - Well, so that's where we messed up last year 1197 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,480 when we were rewriting the criteria manual. 1198 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,160 We added an enclosure or a compactor, 1199 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,840 but we forgot to add a single enclosure for recycling. 1200 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:29,680 - Oh, okay. 1201 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,000 - So that's just a minor mistake that was on our part 1202 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,280 that we're trying to correct this year. 1203 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,640 But if they elect to get a compactor, 1204 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,680 then that gives them the option to recycle in the future. 1205 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,280 So we're not running into that same issue 1206 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,880 with dumpsters sitting out in the parking lot. 1207 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,840 - Okay, thank you. 1208 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:48,680 - I will tell you, 1209 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,080 this may not be the place to bring it up, 1210 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:52,720 but I'm going to anyway. 1211 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:57,280 If you can ever solve the problem of people 1212 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:02,280 stopping and filling your dumpsters up, 1213 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,400 I mean, off of the street. 1214 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:09,400 That is a, you know, we've tried taking pictures 1215 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,720 and basically that hasn't worked. 1216 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,200 But that is a, and I don't know how to solve it. 1217 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,520 It's a conversation I've had in a lot 1218 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,960 of different committees. 1219 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,360 But how do you solve? 1220 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,760 Can we do something to educate? 1221 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,880 That's a crime. 1222 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:27,840 - Yeah, it's illegal. 1223 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,920 But we do offer a lock and device for that dumpster 1224 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,600 that it's a key that, you know, 1225 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,440 we provide the lock for $20. 1226 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,960 It's a lock and device with the lids on there. 1227 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,240 So if you need access to it, you have a key lock to it. 1228 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:44,040 We don't require that key or that lock 1229 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,480 because it's a gravity unlocking system 1230 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,120 where the truck picks up the dumpster, it locks it. 1231 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,640 And then when it sets it back down, it relocks it. 1232 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,040 But it's a $20 fee. 1233 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,400 So if you're interested in that, one time fee. 1234 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,920 - Thank you. 1235 00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,160 And I'm not sure, is it a misdemeanor here 1236 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,360 for illegal dumping? 1237 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,280 - I wouldn't know. 1238 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,720 I don't think anybody on this knows. 1239 00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:09,560 - I'm just curious. 1240 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,520 You don't have to answer that one. 1241 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,320 - I would like it to be a felony. 1242 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,580 (laughing) 1243 00:52:15,580 --> 00:52:22,880 - Yeah, yeah, it's a misdemeanor, yeah. 1244 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,360 - All right. 1245 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,600 Moving on to our stormwater and our drainage criteria manual. 1246 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,640 So when going through this manual, we realized 1247 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,320 there's lots of terms that we were using 1248 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:35,560 throughout the manual. 1249 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,040 And this manual actually has a definition 1250 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,280 in the beginning of it. 1251 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,400 And some of the terms that we were using throughout it 1252 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,280 were unclear. 1253 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,440 So we went through and redefined those terms 1254 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,520 in the definition manual so that way everybody knew 1255 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,000 what we were talking about and referring to. 1256 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,600 And one of the things that we also looked at 1257 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,620 is that for all developments in our city, 1258 00:52:53,620 --> 00:52:56,040 require everything to be designed 1259 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:57,280 to the flood mitigation level, 1260 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,200 which is the 100 year storm, which is great and all, 1261 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,240 but the problem is that any time we have an infill project 1262 00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:07,160 or a redevelopment of like a downtown urban area 1263 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,480 or a city project, the costs are redesigned 1264 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,280 to 100 year flood and all the downstream impacts 1265 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,240 are associated with that. 1266 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:15,840 'Cause once you design your system 1267 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,640 to be a higher flood standard, 1268 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,040 you're basically just pushing the water 1269 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,160 downstream to your neighbor. 1270 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,520 So the way the criteria is written is that 1271 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,600 you have to upgrade everything downstream 1272 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,560 until you have no more impact. 1273 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,080 Well, that becomes so restrictive and cost prohibitive 1274 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,080 that projects just don't get built and can't get designed. 1275 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,800 So we realized that was a problem. 1276 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,360 We actually included a language in there 1277 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,040 to allow us to say for all new developments 1278 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,500 that are green field projects, 1279 00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:43,200 it's pretty simple to design to the 100 year 1280 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,840 because you've just put a tension basin in, 1281 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,320 you put bigger pipes in, whatever the case is. 1282 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,040 But for redevelopment and urbanization 1283 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,880 or internal projects where that cost becomes so prohibitive 1284 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,980 that it stops projects in our tracks, 1285 00:53:56,980 --> 00:54:00,760 we allow us to go back and say, okay, for this project, 1286 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,960 an incremental improvement is better than no improvement. 1287 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,880 So we're okay with designing, upgrading, 1288 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,880 us doing a smaller upgrade now 1289 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,400 so that way we can start getting some 1290 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,400 progressive improvements going on. 1291 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,560 So we have added that to this criteria manual. 1292 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,840 And one of the things also that we notice is that 1293 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,080 in the standard specifications, we outlaw the use 1294 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,280 or we do not allow the use of corrugated metal pipes 1295 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,880 for drainage culverts and driveways. 1296 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,920 However, our criteria manual still allowed that. 1297 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,700 So this kind of goes back to the whole conversation 1298 00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:30,080 of finding conflict within the document itself. 1299 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,400 So we found those references, 1300 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,040 removed them out of our criteria manual 1301 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,200 because we're getting questions as, 1302 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,400 hey, your criteria manual says we can use 1303 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,640 corrugated metal pipe, 1304 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,960 your specifications say you can't use it. 1305 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,560 So we ended up taking that out. 1306 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,800 For the transportation criteria manual, 1307 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,040 as you're probably all aware, we have the mobility plan. 1308 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,640 - Oh, okay, Mr. T. 1309 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,480 - Back to the storm water. 1310 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:56,480 So I did notice that we're now using the I-swim standards. 1311 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,400 - We have, yes, we have been. 1312 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,400 - Okay, and so that's a wide variety of standards 1313 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,420 that include everything from the concrete, 1314 00:55:07,420 --> 00:55:13,160 trapezoidal water flow to riprap 1315 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,440 or kind of more natural structures. 1316 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,640 And even talking about like on a green field, 1317 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,120 they can put in a detention pond and pipes the right size. 1318 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,280 And that's, and like that most basic design 1319 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,080 is heavily concreted, 1320 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,680 no, a little or no vegetation, 1321 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,000 maybe a little green around the outside, 1322 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,080 but a lot of times it's actually concrete bottoms 1323 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,440 in the detention ponds to prevent erosion 1324 00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,440 and a concrete drainage structure, 1325 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,000 which, and that is, that's the minimum, 1326 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,480 but there are a lot of more creative options, 1327 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:48,480 kind of like what you see behind Razor Ranch isn't bad. 1328 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,120 The parking lots of Razor Ranch are kind of interesting. 1329 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,400 And then if going down to behind 1330 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,840 the shopping center near the mall, 1331 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,120 I don't remember the name of it, 1332 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,640 where like the Best Buy is, 1333 00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,360 they have some of those more like wetlands 1334 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,520 with vegetation, heavily vegetated, 1335 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,600 and using riprap and revetments instead of concrete, 1336 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,600 which has all kinds of environmental benefits, 1337 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,720 like increased soil, you know, 1338 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:20,680 water is absorbed into the soil 1339 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,800 as opposed to just flowing to the lake, 1340 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,400 decreases your flood flows, 1341 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,280 increases the friction on the flow, et cetera, 1342 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,280 all these benefits, environmental, aesthetic, and otherwise. 1343 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:35,120 Is there anything that we can do to encourage those options 1344 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,760 as versus the lowest cost trapezoidal concrete channel? 1345 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,120 - Yes, there is, and actually we have Mr. Mike Linder here, 1346 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,640 which is our new drainage engineer. 1347 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,000 - Hey, good morning. 1348 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,520 I'm Mike Linder, the senior drainage engineer. 1349 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,000 To address that, there are incentives, I believe, 1350 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,200 in the Ditten Development Code, 1351 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,920 more akin to the landscaping requirements 1352 00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,840 that go into a site. 1353 00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,120 That type of information really wouldn't be housed 1354 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,240 in what is a technical design manual. 1355 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:08,920 But I think as we go through the Ditten Development Code, 1356 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,640 I know there's a section in here that lines out 1357 00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,640 low-impact development designs like you're discussing, 1358 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,760 and kind of encourages people to do that, 1359 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,760 and maybe we can look in other ways to, you know, 1360 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,680 require a minimum level of that, 1361 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,080 or more greatly encourage that, 1362 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,840 but that's really something that would be 1363 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,880 in the development code and not in a technical manual. 1364 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,400 - Right, yeah, I just wanna make sure we do encourage that, 1365 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,720 because it becomes an amenity to the city, 1366 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,680 it benefits the landowners, 1367 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,240 and the city benefits the landowner, 1368 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,360 and everybody downstream. 1369 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:45,720 - Absolutely. - Thank you. 1370 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:55,520 - All right, moving on to our transportation criteria manual. 1371 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,080 As you're probably all aware, we had the mobility plan 1372 00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,040 got updated, or adopted this March, 1373 00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,320 and so we actually went through our criteria manual 1374 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,120 and made sure that all of our geometric standards 1375 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,520 for all the roadway classifications 1376 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,760 are consistent across both documents. 1377 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:10,720 There are some slight tweaks, 1378 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,880 so we updated those tables as well. 1379 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,200 We added some discussion on turn lane warrants, 1380 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,280 so we did have people requesting turn lanes. 1381 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,280 We had no standard way to identify the stacking length, 1382 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,240 the turn criteria to justify the installation 1383 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,040 of a turn lane, and how big those openings 1384 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:28,160 of those turn lanes need to be, 1385 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,240 so we included all that. 1386 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,080 We updated our on-street parking, 1387 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,000 so our on-street parking was designed 1388 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,240 to ADA and PRO Act standards. 1389 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,120 We never discussed it and outlined 1390 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,640 why they're designed the way it was. 1391 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,680 We added several paragraphs in the prologue 1392 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,960 of the parking section to talk about where design, 1393 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,760 these are all laid out for ADA and PRO Act requirements, 1394 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,960 the spacing, the slopes, and so it kind of lays out 1395 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,560 why it was drawn the way it was. 1396 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,080 As part of our traffic safety impact analysis, 1397 00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,920 our TIAs, is that we've included a discussion 1398 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:01,000 in there for safety. 1399 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,440 So before, it was all just based on traffic volume, 1400 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,160 turning radius is turning, 1401 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:08,520 so we actually put a discussion that says, 1402 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,920 okay, well, in addition to the amount of volume of traffic 1403 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,560 and how much traffic you're having, 1404 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,640 we need to look at it from a safety standpoint as well, 1405 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,120 'cause we do have some intersections 1406 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,320 and roadways where we do have safety issues. 1407 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,000 By the way, it was written before 1408 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,920 that the safety portion wasn't, 1409 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,000 we weren't able to enforce that, 1410 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,040 so now we, by putting it in here, 1411 00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:27,920 we can say, hey, go back and look at this again. 1412 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,600 You're having site issues, you're having other problems. 1413 00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,240 You can look at it from a safety standpoint as well. 1414 00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:34,080 Yes, go ahead. 1415 00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,320 - Thank you, Chair. 1416 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,440 On your on-street parking, 1417 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,680 Section 1.6 in the Criterion Manual, 1418 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,600 am I, it's saying, 1419 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,640 one on-street parking, 1420 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,320 where on-street parking is designated, 1421 00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,720 one on-street parking space 1422 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,360 for each single family unit or block is required. 1423 00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,400 So what's that first part saying, 1424 00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,760 where on-street parking is designated? 1425 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,040 Does there have to be a sign there saying no parking 1426 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,800 or some parking? - Yeah, so there has to be 1427 01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,840 some sort of marking for on-street parking. 1428 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:10,800 If it's just like a wide shoulder, 1429 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:11,920 it's open to parking, 1430 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,880 but if you have a designated marking spot, 1431 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,400 it's considered on-street parking then. 1432 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,720 - Okay, so if there's no designation of on-street parking, 1433 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:24,720 is it still just one vehicle per unit, single family unit? 1434 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:30,360 - I believe, I don't think, I don't think so. 1435 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:31,920 - Used to be though, didn't it? 1436 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,320 - If I remember right, yeah, hi. 1437 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,520 - Hi, Carina Maldonado, 1438 01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,440 Transportation Planner with Development Services. 1439 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:43,880 Could you repeat the question? 1440 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,200 - Well, it's indicating here that there's allowed 1441 01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,800 one vehicle in single family developments, 1442 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,560 one vehicle per unit, 1443 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,440 but the stipulation is where it's designated. 1444 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,880 So I'm living, I'm in a newer development, an HOA, 1445 01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:01,000 and we've got no signs there, 1446 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,920 but we've got some street parking issues 1447 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,240 where there's four cars to one household, 1448 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:08,600 two of them are in the driveway. 1449 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,120 - Yeah, so going back to the development code, 1450 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,200 our development code is what sets the standards 1451 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:14,600 for minimum parking. 1452 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,840 So single family residential would have to provide 1453 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,160 four spaces on the property. 1454 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,640 - Now on the property, off the street, right? 1455 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,960 - And going back to the criteria manual, 1456 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,840 there is a table that indicates whether parking is allowed 1457 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,960 or not, so prohibited or not. 1458 01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,200 If it is prohibited, then that's where you wouldn't see 1459 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,560 on street parking. 1460 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:39,560 If it is permitted, it's based within the right-of-way 1461 01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,960 for that street, so residential street sections 1462 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,160 typically allow for parking, 1463 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,520 but there is no minimum requirement. 1464 01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,400 It doesn't say you have to provide one, 1465 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:52,760 you have to provide two. 1466 01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,320 You just have to meet the requirements 1467 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,840 in the criteria manual, which says, you know, 1468 01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,440 no parking within so many feet of an intersection, 1469 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:04,280 of a driveway, so it's not specifically mentioned in there. 1470 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,400 - Okay, and there's one other part, 1.6, 1471 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,720 it says areas in front of or within five feet of a driveway, 1472 01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:12,600 within 20 feet of a street intersection, 1473 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,440 within 15 feet of our fire habit shall not be counted 1474 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,840 toward the required on-street parking. 1475 01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,080 - So the on-street parking comment is mostly related to, 1476 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,800 let's say a multifamily development that were to come in, 1477 01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,840 and they were adjacent to a roadway that would permit 1478 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,800 on-street parking, they would have to meet 1479 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,200 those requirements. 1480 01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:33,600 - Okay, gotcha. 1481 01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:34,880 Can I meet with you after the meeting 1482 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,880 just to get some clarification from my first-- 1483 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:37,880 - Sure. - Thank you. 1484 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:48,880 - So reviewing the transportation criteria manual, 1485 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:55,160 I'm trying to understand the bike lane 1486 01:02:55,160 --> 01:03:00,120 and bike amenities in geometric standards 1.3. 1487 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,160 It seems like that's where that's really the only portion 1488 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,280 that really covers kind of the bike lanes. 1489 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,080 There's some definitions elsewhere. 1490 01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,560 And there's a bike accommodation required 1491 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:13,280 and it's either parentheses seven or 10. 1492 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:17,660 And parentheses seven has a footnote about sidewalks. 1493 01:03:17,660 --> 01:03:20,560 What is the number 10? 1494 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,080 - There should be a subnote 10 in there, I believe. 1495 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,360 - Well, yeah, the seven is a footnote, 1496 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,720 but then the 10 looks like a size, maybe? 1497 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,760 - Yeah, I think it's 10 foot width, the 10 foot width. 1498 01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:30,920 - 10 foot width. 1499 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,920 - And is that an on-street accommodation? 1500 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,360 What is it, is that a shared lane, bike lane? 1501 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:42,880 - Yes, just stay. 1502 01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:49,000 - So the table is there for reference 1503 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,880 to let you know whether or not, 1504 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,120 based on the classification of the roadway, 1505 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,960 what the minimum width of a facility would be. 1506 01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,200 When a development comes in, 1507 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,520 they would have to look to our standard details, 1508 01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:05,920 which would identify the urban roadway section 1509 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,960 and sidewalk section. 1510 01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,920 And then on top of that, our developers, 1511 01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,400 when they come in for a site plan, 1512 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,600 they would also need to reference our mobility plan 1513 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,520 and the bike plan element. 1514 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,040 So if there's no bicycle facilities called out 1515 01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,160 on that specific roadway, 1516 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,600 they would not need to provide that facility there. 1517 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,840 So there's several places that a developer 1518 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,160 would need to go back and reference. 1519 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,000 So first, our mobility plan. 1520 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,560 And when they come in for developments, 1521 01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:34,760 that's usually where we tell them, 1522 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,000 "Hey, you're located next to a collector. 1523 01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,800 "This collector calls for bicycle facilities." 1524 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,880 Our bike plan does say whether it's a shared street, 1525 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,600 shared path, or otherwise, 1526 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,040 so that it's kind of a combination of several things. 1527 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,760 So for the criteria manual, it's just a basic reference. 1528 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,040 They would still need to go back to our mobility plan 1529 01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:59,760 and to the standard details. 1530 01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,760 - Okay, and this raises some concerns on new development, 1531 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,160 green field development, 1532 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,440 where if it's not in the bike plan, 1533 01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,880 then you're not required to allocate footage to it. 1534 01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,280 And then you build the road, 1535 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,320 and now we say five or 10 years later, 1536 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,280 "Oh, there's an elementary school or something." 1537 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:23,120 There's more development. 1538 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,840 Now, this residential collector becomes a bike path, 1539 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,880 but the road's too narrow and the right-of-way is narrow. 1540 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,440 And now, if you want a bike path, 1541 01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,440 you have to remove parking or the front of somebody's yard 1542 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,680 or something like that in order to get those in. 1543 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:46,240 And so, and it might be addressed in the bike plan, 1544 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:51,000 but I do worry that there is a table 1545 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,480 and it's just unclear what it means. 1546 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,380 And not so much on where the bike plan exists 1547 01:05:58,380 --> 01:06:01,680 in existing neighborhoods, but in the-- 1548 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:02,520 - Brand new. 1549 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,800 - 200 square miles of planned development 1550 01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,840 we have around the outside of town 1551 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,760 that I think we can have some generic requirements 1552 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,840 about arterials and collectors and so forth, 1553 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,200 must have this amount of accommodation, 1554 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,480 even if they're not in the bike plan yet. 1555 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,600 And I think that would belong in the criteria manual, 1556 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,240 but it might belong somewhere else. 1557 01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:27,200 And if a developer says, 1558 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,040 "Well, there's a reason why this arterial 1559 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:30,720 "doesn't need any bike accommodation," 1560 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,880 or, "There's a reason why this collector doesn't," 1561 01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,920 then they can deviate from the manual. 1562 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,640 But to have it where the manual doesn't require it 1563 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,640 unless it's in the bike plan, we got to catch 22. 1564 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:47,600 Like the plan then comes back later and says, 1565 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,680 "Oh, you should have built it, but it's too late now." 1566 01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,000 - Yeah, so that's a really great question, 1567 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:52,880 really great point. 1568 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,640 I think one of the ways that we're trying to plan 1569 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,640 for those future improvements is in our roadway sections 1570 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,060 and our classifications in the mobility plan. 1571 01:07:03,060 --> 01:07:04,740 So based on that classification, 1572 01:07:04,740 --> 01:07:06,280 there's certain right-of-way 1573 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,680 that a development would need to provide. 1574 01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,200 In the development process, that's where we look at, 1575 01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:13,680 is there future connectivity? 1576 01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,680 Is there something that's warranting 1577 01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:17,680 that our TIA would be another way 1578 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,640 for that connectivity to be called out? 1579 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,780 So there's probably ways that we could improve 1580 01:07:23,780 --> 01:07:25,880 our criteria manual, maybe with a note. 1581 01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,820 I believe there is language that calls references back 1582 01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:31,840 to the mobility plan. 1583 01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,080 So there's things in place to capture that 1584 01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,280 where we would come back and make those improvements 1585 01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,720 if the development didn't put it in first 1586 01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:42,720 is through our capital improvements plan. 1587 01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,320 So going back to the mobility plan, 1588 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,640 going back to the roadway or the right-of-way 1589 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,980 that's available, our CIP can capture that. 1590 01:07:49,980 --> 01:07:54,140 - Yeah, and actually, so are the standard roadway designs, 1591 01:07:54,140 --> 01:07:56,640 are they part of the, are they going to be part 1592 01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,080 of this manual or are they a separate document 1593 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:00,680 that's got its own update cycle? 1594 01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:04,880 - Yeah, for the standard details, 1595 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,120 those are a separate document, 1596 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,880 and those don't need to get council approval 1597 01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:11,880 with the same process, the different process. 1598 01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:13,920 It's more of a technical process, 1599 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,760 but we are in the process of updating those 1600 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:16,960 right now as well. 1601 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:18,360 And one of the things I also want to point out 1602 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:19,920 is that our mobility plan outlines 1603 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,040 that we need to have 10-foot side paths for streets, 1604 01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,420 and those 10-foot side paths are the bike/pet facility, 1605 01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:29,680 so you don't have to have an on-street bike route anymore 1606 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,400 'cause we're putting the bike, the 10-foot side path 1607 01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,120 on the roadways to get the vehicles 1608 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,400 and the pedestrians separated. 1609 01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,240 - Yeah, and I think that's actually one of the, 1610 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:41,640 I saw that in here and I wasn't sure 1611 01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,660 if that was what the design was. 1612 01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:45,860 So I have a couple of concerns. 1613 01:08:45,860 --> 01:08:50,860 First, we have a lack of citizen oversight. 1614 01:08:50,860 --> 01:08:57,600 If we have, if the manual says refer 1615 01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,780 to the engineering drawings, and the engineering drawings 1616 01:09:00,780 --> 01:09:05,600 are changed and approved without a board 1617 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:09,480 or city council approval, usually you would have 1618 01:09:09,480 --> 01:09:12,760 your design drawings meet the requirements 1619 01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:17,760 of the manuals, and also, you know, 1620 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,960 engineers would bring their engineering knowledge 1621 01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,480 and make sure they're technically correct. 1622 01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:26,360 To have this where the design manual 1623 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,560 defers to whatever the drawings are 1624 01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:32,320 creates a lack of oversight. 1625 01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:38,240 And second, side paths are one of the best ways 1626 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:45,520 to discourage cycling because they create 1627 01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:47,880 lots of friction points, because every time 1628 01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:52,880 a sidewalk reaches a road, you have multiple points 1629 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,000 of friction where, they're great for children, 1630 01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,400 or somebody learning to ride a bike, 1631 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,600 or somebody who's moving very slowly, 1632 01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:04,640 but if you're trying to ride through your neighborhood 1633 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:09,640 to somewhere, a store or an event or a night out or work, 1634 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:13,080 to have to stop at every intersection, 1635 01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,140 become a pedestrian, basically, cars aren't looking 1636 01:10:16,140 --> 01:10:19,740 at the sidewalk for a moving vehicle, 1637 01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:21,880 where if you're riding in the street, 1638 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:26,720 then you, then cars see you, you don't have to yield 1639 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,240 to the cross streets, if you, you know, 1640 01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:30,880 where you do have to yield to a cross street 1641 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,280 if you're on the sidewalk and hitting the cross street 1642 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:34,980 and then crossing the cross street. 1643 01:10:34,980 --> 01:10:40,400 - I have a question for Mr. Taylor. 1644 01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,280 - Okay. - Before you answer 1645 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,360 his question. - Sure. 1646 01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,040 - This presupposes that bike paths should be included 1647 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,820 with roadway construction, is that your point? 1648 01:10:51,140 --> 01:10:54,560 - Yes, and that the, well, they should be included 1649 01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:55,860 where they are appropriate. 1650 01:10:55,860 --> 01:11:00,040 And what neighborhoods do we want to declare 1651 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,200 should not be bikeable? 1652 01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,840 - That'd be a discussion for another meeting. 1653 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,640 - Yes, sir, that's actually what I was gonna ask, 1654 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,240 Mr. Taylor, actually, the Public Utility Board 1655 01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,280 only has the ability to make comment 1656 01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,480 over the water, wastewater and drainage, 1657 01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:16,440 so we are more than happy to listen 1658 01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:19,000 to any of the questions or concerns that you have. 1659 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,360 These are actually posted on our website. 1660 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,040 Our team is more than happy to listen 1661 01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:24,240 to any of those concerns, 1662 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,280 and they won't go to council 'til December, 1663 01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,280 so we've got plenty of time to meet with you. 1664 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,360 But in respect for everyone else that's here, 1665 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,060 I'd like to ask if we could take 1666 01:11:33,060 --> 01:11:34,680 the transportation-related questions 1667 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:35,840 and meet with you separately, sir, 1668 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:36,880 if that would be okay with you. 1669 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,080 - Okay, thank you. - That's not our purview, yeah. 1670 01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:40,920 Thank you, Becky. 1671 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,800 And then also we added discussion about 1672 01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,280 pedestrian access as well for the TIA, 1673 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,520 so look at getting it from points of interest 1674 01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:55,680 to points of interest to include that 1675 01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,240 as part of the development process as well. 1676 01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,680 So we are trying to build those pedestrian facilities 1677 01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,340 in all of development, so kind of all related. 1678 01:12:03,340 --> 01:12:06,600 And then the last update, 1679 01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:07,840 last criteria manual we had to update 1680 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,480 was our water, wastewater criteria manual. 1681 01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:11,560 We actually went through and looked 1682 01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,080 at some of the language in there. 1683 01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:16,200 Our language was a little bit misleading 1684 01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,000 in terms of the number of water meters 1685 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,320 for multifamily developments. 1686 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,280 Per state law, supposed to have a master meter 1687 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:23,520 for multifamily developments, 1688 01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,400 with the development to have sub-meters to that, 1689 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:30,280 so we clarified that to be consistent with the law. 1690 01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,760 We added discussion on backflow prevention, yes. 1691 01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,120 - So you're allowing sub-meters on a multi? 1692 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,440 - Yes. - Okay. 1693 01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:41,920 That's it. - More comment? 1694 01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,120 - No, that answers it. - No, that's it, yes. 1695 01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:45,720 - We're all good. (laughs) 1696 01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,920 And then we also added discussion on backflow prevention, 1697 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,000 which is also another requirement, 1698 01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,240 something that we were doing, 1699 01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:54,200 but we didn't outline it and have formal discussion on it, 1700 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,200 so we included that. 1701 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,480 We had a table within that document 1702 01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:00,960 that discussed separation of utilities. 1703 01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:04,480 It primarily dealt with crossing utilities, 1704 01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,000 so when you had private franchise utilities, 1705 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,840 such as gas and whatever else, 1706 01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,480 crossing our public facilities, 1707 01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:14,720 the table was being misused and misinterpreted, 1708 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,120 so we went through and tried to clarify that table 1709 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:18,640 to make it easier to understand, 1710 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,840 so we got fewer questions on it. 1711 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,040 And we also added a discussion on grease traps 1712 01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:26,720 and grit traps, which kinda seems like a weird location 1713 01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,560 to have it in the Wastewater Criteria Manual. 1714 01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:30,880 We talked about this a little bit. 1715 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,520 We talked about do we need to put it into a health code 1716 01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:34,960 because it relates to restaurants 1717 01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,520 and places that are food processing facilities, 1718 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,320 and the decision was we need to discuss it somewhere, 1719 01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,880 and because if anything of those overflow, 1720 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,720 they flow into our wastewater system, 1721 01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,560 and so we thought the best place to put it 1722 01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:49,440 would be to have it here, 1723 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:50,840 to have some sort of discussion 1724 01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,480 to capture the requirements related to that. 1725 01:13:53,480 --> 01:13:54,960 - It impacts your wastewater, 1726 01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,120 so it's appropriate to be in there. 1727 01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:58,520 - Yep. 1728 01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:59,520 When we first talked about it, 1729 01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,080 we were like, does it really need to go here? 1730 01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,240 So we had a little bit of discussion on that. 1731 01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,400 So for our next steps, 1732 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:07,800 our next presentation is gonna be 1733 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,280 to the Texas Society of Professional Engineers in November. 1734 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,240 We will do another update to City Council 1735 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,120 via Friday report. 1736 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:16,800 We will eventually advertise this 1737 01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,040 to Denton Record Chronicle that we are making the updates. 1738 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,240 We do have everything posted online 1739 01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,320 for comment and feedback from the public. 1740 01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:26,720 All those comments will be reviewed 1741 01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,440 and either analyzed and added to the criteria manuals 1742 01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:32,840 before it goes to Council in December. 1743 01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,720 Again, here's our layout. 1744 01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,600 So we have about halfway through our public output, 1745 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,920 public outreach. 1746 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,760 And do you have any questions? 1747 01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,040 Mr. Beck. 1748 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:47,320 - Just one real quick. 1749 01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:48,800 For my own personal edification, 1750 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,320 criteria manuals are just informational 1751 01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,240 for developers, concerns and stuff like that. 1752 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,400 As far as what's required by ordinance or law, 1753 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,600 that's gonna be in the development code, is that right? 1754 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,040 - So the criteria manuals we actually, 1755 01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,800 we hold the developers. 1756 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,640 Those are like a guiding document for the city. 1757 01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:08,880 - Do they have enforcement power? 1758 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,440 - Yes, yes they do, yes. 1759 01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:13,680 - Okay, so if somebody had a particular issue 1760 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,560 within these criteria manuals, they could cite that. 1761 01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:17,560 - Correct. - Okay. 1762 01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,480 - So we actually do have a process. 1763 01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:21,880 We have a Monday meeting every Monday afternoon 1764 01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,960 where developments or projects that are unable 1765 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:27,360 to meet certain criteria within the manual, 1766 01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:28,520 they request a variance. 1767 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:29,960 We're kind of working on the language, 1768 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:31,720 but for now it's called a variance. 1769 01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,440 And the language conflicts with the development codes 1770 01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,560 are looking at different terms instead of the word variance. 1771 01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,240 But they request a variance from the city engineer, 1772 01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:42,080 from Becky. 1773 01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,480 We meet internally, discuss the proposed change. 1774 01:15:45,480 --> 01:15:46,840 Why can't they meet the change? 1775 01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,520 We analyze and determine if it's an acceptable reason 1776 01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,720 to not design to our city standard. 1777 01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,880 And then we sign off on if it's acceptable or not. 1778 01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:57,920 - Okay, thanks. 1779 01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,120 - Other questions? 1780 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:04,760 - Thank you. - All right, thank you. 1781 01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:09,760 - All right, it is 10/17. 1782 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,440 Do we have a motion to adjourn? 1783 01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:14,560 Okay, we got two over here. 1784 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:15,840 Lee and Larry are fighting. 1785 01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:16,920 We have our adjourn.