WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.840 - Okay, it is nine o'clock and we have a quorum, 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:05.760 so we're called to order the City of Denton 00:00:05.760 --> 00:00:07.160 Public Utilities Board meeting 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.840 for Monday, October 10th, 2022. 00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:12.560 The first item is presentations 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:13.800 from members of the public. 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.100 Is anyone in the public wish to address the board? 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.560 I see none. 00:00:19.560 --> 00:00:21.880 So we'll move on to the consent agenda. 00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:25.600 Does any board member wish to pull items A through C? 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.800 Any item A through C? 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:27.760 Mr. Rybeck. 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:30.240 - I'd like to pull item C from the consent agenda, 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:31.880 Madam Chairman. - Item C. 00:00:31.880 --> 00:00:32.900 Any others? 00:00:32.900 --> 00:00:37.160 All right, do we have a motion to approve items A and B? 00:00:37.160 --> 00:00:40.160 Mr. Cheek moved. 00:00:40.160 --> 00:00:41.160 - Second. 00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:43.080 - Mr. Rybeck second, all in favor? 00:00:43.080 --> 00:00:44.440 - Aye. - Aye. 00:00:44.440 --> 00:00:45.960 - Carries, item C. 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.960 - Yes, I have a specific question. 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:53.720 If the awarded firm has committed to the personnel 00:00:53.720 --> 00:00:57.580 to manage and provide technical lead on the project. 00:00:58.480 --> 00:01:00.880 - I'm just curious if they have committed to that? 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.720 - Sir, Jerry Looper, did municipal electric? 00:01:04.720 --> 00:01:05.960 Yes, sir, they have. 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:09.000 We have sufficient resources provided to us 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.560 through this contract for all three phases of it 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:13.360 for over the next three years. 00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:14.280 - Okay. 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:16.520 So have they identified those individuals to you? 00:01:16.520 --> 00:01:20.240 - We have, we've met with those a couple of times already. 00:01:20.240 --> 00:01:21.920 Of course, we're waiting on the official kickoff 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:23.760 for contract once we get it signed. 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:25.160 - And you don't yet have a contract. 00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:26.000 - That's right. 00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:28.600 - So I've met preliminary with these guys 00:01:28.600 --> 00:01:29.560 to kind of get some ideas. 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.040 Of course, we had several with different criteria 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:34.480 to vet these guys out too. 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.880 - Right, well, I understand your kinds of evaluation process 00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:37.720 and so on and so forth. 00:01:37.720 --> 00:01:39.160 You've done a lot of work with those guys, 00:01:39.160 --> 00:01:41.360 have done a good job for you. 00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:44.520 Because of the length duration and importance of the project, 00:01:44.520 --> 00:01:45.680 thought it was important to know 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.760 if you did have those personnel identified. 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:49.800 - We did. 00:01:49.800 --> 00:01:53.120 - I only mentioned this because I've done a lot of projects 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.200 where that didn't happen, certain things occurred 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.240 which were unfortunate. 00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:01.640 Thank you very much. 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.160 - Yes, sir. 00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:05.800 - All right, do we have a motion to approve item C? 00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:06.640 - So moved. 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.520 - And second, all in favor say aye. 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:10.640 - Aye. 00:02:10.640 --> 00:02:11.480 - Carries. 00:02:11.480 --> 00:02:16.160 Next item is approval of the September 26th, 2022 minutes. 00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:18.520 Were there any changes or corrections? 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.640 Okay, do we have a motion to approve? 00:02:22.760 --> 00:02:25.080 Larry's moving. 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:26.280 And Devin's seconding. 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:27.480 All in favor say aye. 00:02:27.480 --> 00:02:28.880 - Aye. 00:02:28.880 --> 00:02:32.920 - Next item is consider recommending the adoption 00:02:32.920 --> 00:02:35.840 to reimburse the capital program expenditures 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.840 for the bond issues. 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:45.400 - Good morning, I am Randy Klingle, 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:47.320 the treasury manager here. 00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:49.040 It's my pleasure to be before you today 00:02:49.040 --> 00:02:50.720 to give you a brief presentation 00:02:50.720 --> 00:02:52.440 regarding the capital improvement program 00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:55.440 for the utilities for the reimbursement ordinance process 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.440 which is really our kickoff for the bond sale this year. 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:03.520 So the reimbursement ordinance is required by the IRS 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:06.720 so that it shows the city's intent to spend funds now 00:03:06.720 --> 00:03:10.200 to reimburse themselves later by future bond proceeds. 00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:11.720 We generally have the bond sale 00:03:11.720 --> 00:03:13.600 within 12 months of this ordinance. 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:15.800 We like to usually have it in the summer months 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:18.560 and then definitely before the end of the fiscal year. 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.400 And our current debt policy also allows us 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:22.720 to have this reimbursement ordinance 00:03:22.720 --> 00:03:24.600 in this process in place. 00:03:24.600 --> 00:03:27.080 Today I'll show you the utilities projects list. 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:29.360 I will not be going over them in detail. 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:30.760 You've seen those throughout the summer 00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:32.400 during the budget process. 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:34.880 These are the budgeted items as is. 00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:36.960 There were no changes since the budget was adopted 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.280 by council on September 27th. 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:40.920 So we will not go through those today. 00:03:40.920 --> 00:03:44.840 I'll just kind of give you a summary of those utilities. 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:48.360 So the electric projects for the 2023 budget program 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.960 is $72.9 million. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:52.840 This presentation is also in your backup 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.080 if you'd like to look at the line items more. 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:59.040 Itemized if you will, in your own time. 00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:00.480 And it's also in the ordinance, 00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:02.800 the full project list as well. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:04.520 Solid waste is coming in this year 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.120 at $16 million for their budget. 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:11.840 We have wastewater projects for $41.1 million. 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.160 And last for the utilities, we have $36.1 million. 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.160 And those again are budgeted items at this point. 00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:22.080 So for the entire utilities, 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:24.760 water, wastewater, electric, and solid waste, 00:04:24.760 --> 00:04:29.760 we have $166,347,641 as budgeted. 00:04:29.760 --> 00:04:32.440 And this dollars were most likely reduced 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:34.040 as this project comes along 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.440 and they come back to you with a notice of intent. 00:04:36.440 --> 00:04:38.000 We will reduce those most likely. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.840 They'll have more time to look at their cash on hand 00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:42.680 and their projects and where they are 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:43.720 four months down the line. 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.320 So they'll have the ability to reduce these dollars. 00:04:46.320 --> 00:04:49.880 So our next step is the finance staff 00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:51.160 goes to the bond oversight committee 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:53.280 to talk about the GEO bond sale. 00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:54.560 And then in March, we'll come back 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:57.040 with a notice of intent for your COs. 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.240 And then in May, we'll have a parameters ordinance. 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:00.720 We'll be kind of the final number 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.480 and the final time we tweak the numbers to go to sale, 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:04.520 we'll go to sale in May, 00:05:04.520 --> 00:05:06.880 and then we'll receive those proceeds in June. 00:05:06.880 --> 00:05:10.680 And that's all I have. 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:11.520 - Questions. 00:05:11.520 --> 00:05:13.240 Go ahead. 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.080 Oh, you? 00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:20.160 (all laughing) 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:21.080 - Have the numbers changed at all 00:05:21.080 --> 00:05:23.560 from the bond committee's recommendations? 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:25.960 - Not that I know of. 00:05:25.960 --> 00:05:30.320 'Cause the bond committee usually only sees the election, 00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:32.680 the 2019 bond programs. 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:33.600 That's what they oversee. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.560 They usually don't talk about utilities. 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:43.360 - My question is how much will the projected bond project 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.320 add to the tax burden? 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:49.760 - The total, I would need to defer to someone else. 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:51.760 I did not have that conversation. 00:05:51.760 --> 00:05:54.000 I don't know if there's anyone in finance here, 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.840 but I can definitely get that information 00:05:55.840 --> 00:05:57.600 back to you this afternoon. 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.480 - If these are utilities, they wouldn't be on the, 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:04.000 wouldn't add to the tax burden. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.040 They'd be coming through the rates. 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:06.880 - Oh, so it's being paid? 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:08.720 - These are all utility. 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:09.560 - They're utilities. 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.680 I'm sorry, yes, they're utilities. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.160 - Oh, okay. 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:14.960 - So nevermind, excuse me. 00:06:14.960 --> 00:06:15.800 - That's okay. 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.120 - Other questions? 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:22.720 All right, do we have a motion to approve? 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.520 - So moved. 00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:28.560 - And a second, and Ben is seconding. 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.000 All in favor say aye. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.440 - Aye. 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:32.800 - Carries. 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.600 Consider recommending the adoption of a contract 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:38.560 with Techline Inc. for overhead 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.720 and underground transformers for DME. 00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:43.760 In a not to exceed amount of $75 million. 00:06:43.760 --> 00:06:50.320 - Good morning. 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:51.160 - Good morning. 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.700 - Randy Key, DMSP Electric. 00:06:53.700 --> 00:07:01.960 Okay, overhead and underground transformers, RFQ 8064. 00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:09.680 I'm in the planning department and DME plans materials, 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.120 needs, nine months in advance. 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:17.840 The demand is for project requirements, lead times. 00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:22.440 We have 50 active projects requiring transformers. 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:24.740 Oh, wait, what? 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:25.580 Right here? 00:07:25.580 --> 00:07:30.020 Thank you. 00:07:30.020 --> 00:07:35.660 Also for maintenance work outages, 00:07:35.660 --> 00:07:39.180 transformer failure, damage due to accidents, upgrades, 00:07:39.180 --> 00:07:41.040 and just normal replacements. 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:46.760 Our inventory levels, we have 353 transformers right now 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:48.940 in stock, which is extremely low. 00:07:48.940 --> 00:07:55.440 We have 1,238 purchase in our awaiting arrival. 00:07:55.440 --> 00:07:59.640 The lead times right now is up to 60 weeks. 00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:03.960 Can go all the way up to 150 weeks depending. 00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:06.600 This is for single phase pad mounted 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.480 and overhead transformers in three phase, 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:11.000 I believe is at 40 weeks. 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:15.260 So industry reports that all 2023 production 00:08:15.260 --> 00:08:16.800 has been committed. 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.040 Orders placed today will likely be delivered 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:21.840 in late 2023 or 2024. 00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:25.560 All inventory and order transformers have been allocated 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:27.640 to future projects and maintenance. 00:08:27.640 --> 00:08:31.040 The deliveries have been less than reliable. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.640 They're very sporadic, less than ordered quantity 00:08:34.640 --> 00:08:38.240 has received, I think last week we received four. 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:41.360 And that's kind of been the common trend 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:42.360 that you just don't really know 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.160 when they're actually gonna show up. 00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:47.980 Higher than expected failures upon testing. 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:50.960 So not only are they showing up sporadic, 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.280 but the transformers aren't as good of quality 00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:56.460 as they used to be. 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:59.540 Price of the transformer units on average 00:08:59.540 --> 00:09:03.680 has increased 150% with our most used 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:08.680 residential transformers increased an average of 267%. 00:09:08.680 --> 00:09:10.280 - Mr. Ryback has a question. 00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:11.120 - Thank you. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.880 So you test these units when they are delivered? 00:09:15.880 --> 00:09:21.000 - They're tested before they're sent. 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.120 - Presumed as much, but I was curious. 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:26.680 So you receive a test report and then you also-- 00:09:26.680 --> 00:09:28.240 - What will happen is we will take it, 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:30.580 we'll install it on the project 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:33.280 and then we'll have a failure on the project. 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:35.680 - Or they'll show up and they're leaking already, 00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:37.400 so you can't install it. 00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:39.560 - So you're seeing visible, so you see the failure 00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.640 upon delivery, not a matter of retesting them. 00:09:42.640 --> 00:09:45.680 - True, and then also sometimes they're being sent 00:09:45.680 --> 00:09:48.160 without certain inserts as well. 00:09:48.160 --> 00:09:51.340 So, yes. 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:54.880 - All right, well, let me ask and have the floor 00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:57.880 for the moment, so have you considered testing 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:01.280 upon delivery, even if they're not visibly leaking? 00:10:01.280 --> 00:10:03.960 - We have talked about that, yes sir. 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:04.800 - Thank you. 00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:09.120 - Mr. Beck has a question now. 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:09.960 - Oh, I'm sorry. 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:11.680 - Thank you, Chair. 00:10:11.680 --> 00:10:15.440 You say you've got 350 transformers in stock 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.880 and that this is extremely low. 00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:20.360 What's the average lifespan of a transformer? 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.680 - That's a good question because it varies. 00:10:23.680 --> 00:10:26.600 I mean, some of them can last 50 years. 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.000 - What's the shortest period of time? 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.480 - The shortest is the second you install it in the agency, 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.120 just to be completely honest with you. 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.840 - So if you're extremely low at 353, 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.320 then on average, what are you replacing each year? 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:44.920 - On average, what are we replacing? 00:10:44.920 --> 00:10:48.120 So what we have done is we have minimum set 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.920 and what we're doing is for each size 00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:54.600 and for past years of failure rates, 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:59.600 we keep that amount in stock just in case. 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:01.880 If that answers your question. 00:11:01.880 --> 00:11:04.320 - Go ahead. 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.720 - So you're saying basically you try 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.280 and keep one year inventory? 00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:14.520 You said a previous year's worth of failures? 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:18.360 - Right, of failures, not for what we have on orders 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:19.680 for all the projects right now. 00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:22.680 They're all allocated for projects and maintenance, 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:27.320 but our minimums are based upon failure rates 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:29.920 and outages for each size transformer. 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:32.880 So for instance, it's a 50 kVA. 00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:36.520 If we normally have 100 go bad, 00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:39.680 we keep more than that just in case for our failure rate. 00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:42.400 - And you expect this to improve 00:11:42.400 --> 00:11:44.200 with the newer transformers saying 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.520 that the old ones are up to par with? 00:11:47.520 --> 00:11:53.160 - The failure rate, that's mainly for just any type 00:11:53.160 --> 00:11:55.560 of outage, so the transformers 00:11:55.560 --> 00:11:57.160 that are on the system right now, 00:11:57.160 --> 00:11:58.480 that's what the minimums are for, 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.480 but I guess what you're asking is-- 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.840 - Are you expecting a better quality transformer 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:07.880 in the future? - Yes. 00:12:07.880 --> 00:12:08.960 - Okay, okay. - Yes, sir. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:10.320 - And that should-- - Yes, sir. 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.320 - Improve like that, all right, thank you. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.040 - Okay. 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:20.560 - All right, transformers purchased are based 00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:22.080 on varied electrical demands 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.480 and secondary voltages outlined, 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.040 and this is our spend for the next five years. 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:29.560 - Okay. 00:12:29.560 --> 00:12:30.480 - And? 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:34.480 Any more questions? 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:36.120 - Yes, Mr. Taylor. 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:37.280 - Thank you, Chair. 00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:41.480 So this includes new development and maintenance? 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:42.320 - Yes, sir. 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:43.560 - And so do you have a pretty good idea 00:12:43.560 --> 00:12:44.480 what the new development is, 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.640 or do you just kind of have this ballpark average 00:12:46.640 --> 00:12:47.480 we're expecting? 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.680 - We have a really good idea of new development, 00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:54.640 and what the 15 million year is based upon 00:12:54.640 --> 00:12:57.480 is what we do is we look out nine months ahead. 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.160 We have an idea, a very good idea 00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:02.560 of the projects that are upcoming, 00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:07.040 and we get a count of all the transformers 00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:10.120 that we think are going to be needed for those, 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:12.640 and that's where this pricing comes from, 00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:14.560 including the new pricing increase. 00:13:14.560 --> 00:13:19.560 - Okay, so that's no nine months of backlog. 00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:20.720 - Yes, sir. - Just extended out 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.560 five years. - Yes. 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:22.480 - Okay, thank you. 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:27.320 - So this contract will improve the situation 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.040 - Yes. - Greatly, okay. 00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:30.400 - Greatly. 00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:32.720 - All right, other questions? 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.600 Do we have a motion to approve? 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.520 In second, all in favor, say aye. 00:13:39.520 --> 00:13:40.840 - Aye. - Aye. 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.080 - Carries, thank you, Randy. 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:43.120 - Thank you very much. 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:48.000 - Okay, we have two items for the board's review today. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.400 We have the future agenda items. 00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:52.680 We've got two items to make you aware of. 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:55.880 Upcoming on the next PUB meeting, October 24th, 00:13:55.880 --> 00:13:57.800 science will be presenting the water 00:13:57.800 --> 00:13:59.960 and wastewater impact study. 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:02.560 And the next item is on November 14th, 00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:04.560 you will receive an update on the Greensons 00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:06.640 and the program. 00:14:06.640 --> 00:14:10.040 That ties into the next agenda item, 00:14:10.040 --> 00:14:12.200 which is a new business action items. 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:13.880 There are two questions that have come forward 00:14:13.880 --> 00:14:14.720 for the board. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.160 One is kind of old and one is recent. 00:14:17.160 --> 00:14:19.000 Both of those just providing you an update 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:20.760 will be included when you receive 00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:23.680 the Greensons program work session on November 14th. 00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:24.840 - So they'll take care of both of those. 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.880 - Correct, and then we'll recycle those off. 00:14:27.880 --> 00:14:29.280 So is there any additional questions 00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:30.360 or items that we need to add 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.400 to the new business action item section? 00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:36.640 Okay, thank you. 00:14:36.640 --> 00:14:38.200 - All right. 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.240 Concluding items, does any board member wish 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:42.100 to have a future agenda item added 00:14:42.100 --> 00:14:44.800 or have anything to say to the community at this time? 00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:49.240 Okay, then we'll go into the work session, 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.040 receive a report and hold a discussion 00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:53.560 and give staff direction regarding the update 00:14:53.560 --> 00:14:55.120 on the Wastewater Master Plan. 00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:10.960 - Good morning, members of PUB. 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.480 Stephen Gay, Director of Water Utilities. 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:15.920 We're gonna have Don Atkins from Kimley Horne, 00:15:15.920 --> 00:15:17.560 who's the consultant that's completing 00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:20.560 our Wastewater Master Plan, give you a presentation. 00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:22.920 After he's done, both John and I will be available 00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:25.120 to answer any questions you may have. 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:26.080 - All right, thank you. 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:33.320 - Sad. 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.800 Older and older, you gotta put these things on. 00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:38.720 Some of y'all may know what I'm talking about. 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:43.720 When you get in this weird range between how close is, 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:47.200 so I have like two or three different magnification pairs. 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:53.020 Yes, I know it, I need to talk to my dad about that, right? 00:15:53.020 --> 00:15:56.440 Okay, I think it's in here. 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:03.760 All right, we'll just keep this over here for now. 00:16:03.760 --> 00:16:06.720 First of all, I wanna thank y'all for the opportunity 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.640 for me to be a part of this master plan. 00:16:09.640 --> 00:16:12.040 I actually got my start here in Denton 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:14.040 almost 30 years ago right out of school 00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:16.000 as an engineer graduate from Texas A&M 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.040 and it was gracious to get economy as a little 00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:19.760 down the early 90s and got the opportunity 00:16:19.760 --> 00:16:21.200 to work here in Denton. 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.120 And they trained me up so well, I got recruited away 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:29.000 by Kimley Horn to go back to my hometown of Fort Worth 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.160 and I've been working there ever since, so over 26 years. 00:16:32.160 --> 00:16:34.920 So it's fun for me to get to come back to Denton 00:16:34.920 --> 00:16:38.280 where I did a lot of hands-on stuff out in the field 00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:40.720 and now I'm coming full circle again 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.600 to get to talk about the big picture 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:46.360 and setting a legacy of long-term growth for the city 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:48.360 and how that affects Charles wastewater system. 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.480 So thanks for Stephen, thanks for picking us 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:52.760 to do the job, so. 00:16:52.760 --> 00:16:56.640 All right, that being said, let's talk about what, 00:16:56.640 --> 00:16:59.000 fundamentally, what we're gonna go over to today, 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.960 the master plan purpose, the study area, 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.160 the flow projections associated 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.160 with those study area boundaries. 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.760 We're gonna talk a big picture 00:17:09.760 --> 00:17:11.720 about the existing system a little bit. 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.400 Then we're gonna drill down in the Hickory Creek 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:18.200 improvements and I'll help define what Hickory Creek is 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:20.840 and the Clear Creek improvements. 00:17:20.840 --> 00:17:22.840 Then we'll talk about next steps to wrap it up 00:17:22.840 --> 00:17:24.800 and then, of course, if you have questions, 00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:28.560 we're more than happy to entertain, like Stephen said, so. 00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:29.760 That being said, let's talk about, 00:17:29.760 --> 00:17:31.320 just a little definition I put together 00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:34.760 that I think gives a real fundamental definition 00:17:34.760 --> 00:17:37.360 about what master plans are about. 00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:40.280 It provides a roadmap for where, when, 00:17:40.280 --> 00:17:43.320 and what size infrastructure upgrades or additions 00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:46.040 are needed to accommodate future growth. 00:17:46.040 --> 00:17:50.400 The bottom line is it gives not only the staff a roadmap, 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.480 but it also gives the, your public, 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:57.000 it gives the developers a roadmap and it's transparent. 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.080 It's one of those things where everybody knows 00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:01.760 where we're heading based on your comprehensive plan 00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:03.280 and the infrastructure it takes 00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:05.080 to accommodate that comprehensive plan 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:06.920 and specifically wastewater infrastructure 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:08.020 in this presentation. 00:18:08.020 --> 00:18:12.320 Okay, let's start out with your study area. 00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:14.160 What you see here in the beige color 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.680 is actually your city limits. 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.080 So obviously we're gonna focus on the city limits 00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:20.360 as part of your study area, but bigger picture, 00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:22.840 what we also have in here in the original study area 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:25.960 is your CCN boundary, which is in green. 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.400 And that's also, you go, why did you use that? 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.000 Well, part of it is, is your impact fee, 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.360 that's your current boundary 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:33.280 for your impact fee study program 00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:35.340 that's been going on for over 20 years now. 00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:37.760 So we wanna be consistent with that. 00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:42.680 But what's unique and what's occurred fairly recently 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.640 is significant development that actually stretches 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.040 outside of that boundary. 00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:48.960 So you can see it at the edge. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.200 The only major development that you see 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.840 that's actually in the city limits there 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:54.640 is the Hunter Cole Ranch that you see kind of 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.600 in the southwest portion of the map. 00:18:56.600 --> 00:19:00.400 And then everything else is kind of outside of that. 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.080 And because of that, the staff came back to us 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.440 and said, hey, in some direction 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.280 from the city manager's office, you know something, 00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:10.560 let's be looking at something beyond that. 00:19:10.560 --> 00:19:14.640 So what we did was extend your study area boundary 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.680 out to your EDJ. 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.440 So we needed to still follow a city's official boundaries, 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.440 but you can see most of that development 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:26.000 that's out along 380 falls within that boundary. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.500 And that was a little bit that stretched beyond, 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:29.560 but almost all of it's within that. 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:33.640 So we've increased that study area boundary. 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:35.480 And you go, well, why is it so big? 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:37.840 Well, the big goal here is we wanna begin 00:19:37.840 --> 00:19:38.800 with the end in mind. 00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:41.440 We wanna know where we're gonna go ultimately. 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.660 Now it may take 50, 75 years to get there, 00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:46.520 but let's know where we're heading 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:49.440 and then we can come back and drill down a little bit more 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:53.920 on what's gonna happen in the next five, 10, 15, 25 years. 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.680 So that's why we increased the study area boundary. 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.480 All right, from there, we transition 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.960 and we got to do flow projections 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:04.440 based on those study area boundaries. 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.360 And you go, well, what do you base it on? 00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:08.940 Well, we first of all, look at the comprehensive plan. 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:11.160 So we got Scott and his team, 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.940 actually probably this time last year initially, 00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:15.600 and talked to them while they were in the middle 00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:18.520 of the comp plan and said, hey, we're gonna be doing this. 00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:19.840 Wanna partner up with your team 00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:22.800 so we understand what's happening from a land use standpoint 00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:27.000 and we can apply flow demands to that land use. 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.480 So this is what you see here is just the cover, 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.780 the comp plan, but then what we really focus on 00:20:32.780 --> 00:20:35.320 and get data from is the future land use plan, 00:20:35.320 --> 00:20:37.880 which is the map you see here. 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.360 What's really unique about this, 00:20:40.360 --> 00:20:43.880 the areas you see in green, those are areas 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.340 that are kind of outside of the area 00:20:46.340 --> 00:20:48.820 where there's not a defined land use type 00:20:48.820 --> 00:20:50.680 beyond just ag and rural. 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:54.520 So that's why you see a significant green area 00:20:54.520 --> 00:20:56.200 and that's where the development we're seeing 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:57.440 is occurring to some degree. 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:59.520 So we'll talk about that and drill down 00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:01.540 and add a little bit more detail 00:21:01.540 --> 00:21:03.180 when we do our flow projections. 00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:08.960 And the one thing that we do in these particular areas 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.920 is look at the variable units of development 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.240 and I'll talk about that. 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.080 We're gonna talk about, we're gonna give you a flow ranges 00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:19.720 from a low end flow which focuses on the green you see today 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.040 so it matches your comp plan exactly. 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:25.720 But then we also, because we see a lot of the development 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.360 that's coming in out there is more of a low residential 00:21:28.360 --> 00:21:30.520 land use type that y'all have defined. 00:21:30.520 --> 00:21:33.880 And so we also applied that to give a hypothetical 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.140 what it could be if all of it went 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:39.240 to a low residential type land use. 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.460 And we can talk about that a little bit more 00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.280 as we get into it. 00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:46.720 Okay, so existing flows today, 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.000 the green area you see here is where y'all serve folks 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.740 with wastewater today. 00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:54.080 And we put out flow monitoring devices 00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:56.040 and you have them at the treatment plant 00:21:56.040 --> 00:22:01.040 that we know that there's 13 MGD or million gallons per day 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:03.080 of average daily flow that comes 00:22:03.080 --> 00:22:05.740 to your treatment plant every day on average. 00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:09.040 So that's the defined area 00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.800 that that represents here in green. 00:22:11.800 --> 00:22:16.260 Now what we've done is expanded out to add in 00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:20.300 and using the land use plan and future flow projections, 00:22:20.300 --> 00:22:23.240 what you would see added to the system 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.560 would be between 40 and 46 million gallons a day 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:28.640 if you completely built out 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.640 to your current city limits line. 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.980 And then I go to that other green area 00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:36.480 that we talked about a little bit earlier, 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.360 you would add another flow range from 13 up to 34. 00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:42.120 And you're like, what's the range here? 00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:46.240 Once again, it's that ag rural is the lower end 13. 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.440 You can think about it, the density of use 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.880 is not near as much as if all of that went low residential 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.280 and that bumps that number up to about 34 00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:57.240 in that particular area. 00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.120 And you see that we're adding the totals up 00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:00.400 up there in the upper left corner 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.400 of what this is adding up to for the whole system. 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.940 And then lastly, we extend out to the, yes, sir. 00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:08.720 - Just a quick interjection. 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.300 So if an industrial facility that was going to use a lot 00:23:12.300 --> 00:23:15.640 of water in its process were to be added to the mix 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:17.600 in some of these outlying areas, 00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:20.160 would that push it beyond the high end? 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:21.000 - It could. 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:23.840 Industrial is interesting 00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:26.540 'cause there's a huge variability in industrial 00:23:26.540 --> 00:23:28.360 as you're pointing that out. 00:23:28.360 --> 00:23:30.400 If you think about a warehouse facility, 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.720 it may have a few offices that's actually 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.620 a much lower usage, but then you can have a, 00:23:35.620 --> 00:23:38.920 let's say a data center that's a water-cooled data center 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.660 that could drive the number up four times as much. 00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:46.320 So that's the good thing of why you visit this 00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:49.180 on a regular basis or working with the planning folks 00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:50.960 when they know somebody's coming in, 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.720 it's kind of one of those things you have to kind of sidebar 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.880 and stop down and go, okay, 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.680 what kind of change does this affect? 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.320 And this is where Stephen and his team working 00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:02.000 with the planning group on a regular basis 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.520 on what kind of development comes in, 00:24:04.520 --> 00:24:07.800 will kind of deviate over and go, okay, 00:24:07.800 --> 00:24:09.280 this is a special case, if you will, 00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:11.560 compared to what the current land use plan says. 00:24:11.560 --> 00:24:12.920 - Thank you. - Sure. 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.860 - So are you gonna tell us eventually the maximum capacity? 00:24:16.860 --> 00:24:19.400 - Yes, we're heading, yeah. 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.760 Hang with me a little bit. 00:24:20.760 --> 00:24:22.640 We're gonna, I think I'm gonna, 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.920 I think we'll cover the things at a high level. 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.880 We're not getting into the weeds, 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:28.060 but I'm trying to stay high level, 00:24:28.060 --> 00:24:29.200 but it'd give you enough detail 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:30.600 to see where we're heading here. 00:24:30.600 --> 00:24:34.080 - So along the same lines, not just industrial. 00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.840 So a single family, is that the highest kind of use 00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:39.120 per acre of typical uses? 00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:41.400 - On average, it can be, yeah. 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:42.880 That's why it's kind of used. 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.600 Plus, that's predominantly the type of land use 00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:48.520 that comes out into these areas, more than likely. 00:24:48.520 --> 00:24:51.840 It's the, hey, I'd like to live in my nice subdivision 00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:54.000 out in the suburbs, if you will. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.640 We think moving into town's kind of nice too, 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.560 but it's still kind of the culture we're in 00:24:59.560 --> 00:25:00.840 in the North Texas area. 00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:02.840 - And just to understand, what is, 00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:06.280 if all of the city limits or all of the CCN built out, 00:25:06.280 --> 00:25:09.600 do you have a population number of what that would... 00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:11.800 - God, I don't know if y'all projected 00:25:11.800 --> 00:25:13.760 a built out population number, have you? 00:25:15.600 --> 00:25:19.240 - Well, especially not with the ag, and it wouldn't apply 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.720 to, you know, we can come up with a number. 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.440 - Well, I was just wondering if in your modeling, 00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.720 if you're modeling single family homes, you say, okay, 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.520 well now we have another 100,000 acres 00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:30.760 of single family homes, that equals... 00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:33.360 - Yeah, we could absolutely use the assumptions 00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:35.760 that Scott's team does and come up with that number. 00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:37.000 It's so choose. 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:38.560 - And I might just add one piece to this. 00:25:38.560 --> 00:25:41.120 Scott McDonald, director of development services. 00:25:41.120 --> 00:25:43.560 This is so very fluid, no pun intended. 00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:46.440 It just, the reality of the environment 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:47.920 in which we're in today, 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.920 the muds are potentially bringing 10,000, 20,000 new homes. 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:57.720 So new single families that we weren't accounting for 00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.920 literally over a year ago. 00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:03.120 So this transition has been happening very rapidly. 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:06.920 So for the team to be able to walk through 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.760 and try to go through this process 00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:12.920 as we're looking at low density agricultural land, 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.080 all of a sudden seeing more high density, it's a challenge. 00:26:17.080 --> 00:26:19.640 So the population numbers are unknown 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.680 and they can change very rapidly. 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.400 Like I say, if you talk about 20,000 rooftops 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:27.480 that we didn't accommodate for, 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.240 let alone any other industrial that may occur. 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.040 - Okay, and those muds are the ones 00:26:32.040 --> 00:26:35.600 that are outside the CCN area? 00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:37.000 - Some are within. 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.520 - Those are the boxes on the previous... 00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:41.200 - Yes. - Okay, thank you. 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.480 - I'll illustrate a little bit more. 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:46.120 We can talk about that as we move through the presentation. 00:26:46.120 --> 00:26:49.640 Okay, so these are the big picture flows 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.400 based on the study area boundaries that you see here. 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.080 What we're doing now is we're gonna transition 00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:59.640 to wastewater basins and how those associate with this. 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:00.680 And you're like, what are those? 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.120 I'm gonna explain that here in just a second. 00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:06.560 So, okay, we've converted the same flow numbers, 00:27:06.560 --> 00:27:09.400 the same flow ranges you saw on the previous slide, 00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:12.120 but now the outlines you see here are different shape 00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:14.080 and you're like, what is that? 00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:16.280 So what we're looking at here 00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:18.920 are wastewater drainage basins, if you will. 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:20.280 And you're like, what is that? 00:27:20.280 --> 00:27:21.680 The wastewater drainage basins, 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.840 basically they mimic your stormwater basins 00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:26.960 or the stormwater watershed. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.320 So if you see the names in here, you go, 00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:30.680 hey, I see Pecan Creek. 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.600 I know that's the creek that runs through town. 00:27:32.600 --> 00:27:34.280 So we mimic that. 00:27:34.280 --> 00:27:36.920 And so the major collector mains that run through town 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:41.000 basically run parallel to the Pecan Creek through town. 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.720 And then of course, south of town, 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.680 the big Hickory Creek line that runs south of town, 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.320 we parallel that with our collection mains. 00:27:48.320 --> 00:27:51.440 And I'll illustrate that here in just a minute. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:54.960 And of course, the Cooper Creek is north part of town here 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:55.800 inside the loop. 00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:57.800 And then of course, the Clear Creek is the big basin 00:27:57.800 --> 00:27:59.040 to the north. 00:27:59.040 --> 00:28:00.760 And then one thing I wanted to point out here 00:28:00.760 --> 00:28:02.600 that I wanna talk about in a little bit more details, 00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:04.880 you see that kind of the, 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.680 I'll kind of pull up our pointer here. 00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:12.640 The little area you see up here, the dash yellow, 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.480 I'm gonna talk about that. 00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:14.320 There's a nuance. 00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:16.880 That's actually a sub basin, 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:18.800 sub drainage basin of Clear Creek 00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:21.800 that actually right now the sanitary sewer up in that area, 00:28:21.800 --> 00:28:24.560 actually we pump back over into Pecan Creek 00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:26.440 'cause you only have one treatment plant today 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.240 that sits in the Pecan Creek. 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.000 I'll give you a little bit more detail about that too. 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:37.200 Okay. 00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:40.080 Okay, so we're gonna drill down a little bit 00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:42.600 into the existing system a little bit more here. 00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:45.560 So we talked about the Pecan Creek basin earlier, 00:28:45.560 --> 00:28:47.800 and you can see the green line in here 00:28:47.800 --> 00:28:51.040 are gravity conveyance lines or collection lines 00:28:51.040 --> 00:28:54.080 that basically parallel your current Pecan Creek 00:28:54.080 --> 00:28:56.520 and traveled down to the treatment plant, 00:28:56.520 --> 00:28:58.280 which sits here, the wastewater treatment plant, 00:28:58.280 --> 00:29:00.500 which is the Pecan Creek water reclamation plant 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:01.340 that sits here. 00:29:01.340 --> 00:29:03.120 And the other green lines that you see, 00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:08.120 gravity flow wastewater to that plant. 00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.300 Now the other place you also see these little red triangles 00:29:12.300 --> 00:29:13.320 and what those are, 00:29:13.320 --> 00:29:16.020 those also collect wastewater flows 00:29:16.020 --> 00:29:17.440 like for down here where I'm pointing out, 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:19.240 that's the Hickory Creek basin. 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:21.560 And the green line you see that runs parallel 00:29:21.560 --> 00:29:24.480 to the Hickory Creek is a gravity main, 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.280 large gravity main that collects 00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:28.760 and then collects into what we call 00:29:28.760 --> 00:29:30.880 the Hickory Creek lift station. 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.280 And what we do is we lift or pump wastewater 00:29:34.280 --> 00:29:37.180 in this red line back over to where it can gravity 00:29:37.180 --> 00:29:39.560 the rest of the way back to the plant. 00:29:39.560 --> 00:29:43.000 So every little triangle you see 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.880 is a lift station that pumps back over in Pecan Creek 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.620 and the same thing up here. 00:29:47.620 --> 00:29:50.840 So to kind of give you some pictures a little bit here, 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:52.680 you can't see them exactly on this one 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:53.720 because they're up, 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.960 they're fairly small in this aerial photo, 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.880 but you've got the border cowboy lift station. 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:02.640 You've also got the TA Union 76 lift station. 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:04.680 They've been up here for a number of years. 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.160 - They're not called that anymore. 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.360 - They aren't, they aren't. 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.760 That's what they're named in our stuff, 00:30:09.760 --> 00:30:12.480 but there's a legacy to those names. 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.920 Yeah, we carry the legacy names 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:17.120 just 'cause it kind of stuck. 00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:18.800 So that's what those are. 00:30:18.800 --> 00:30:20.800 Yeah, the truck stops, 00:30:20.800 --> 00:30:22.360 don't call themselves that anymore, 00:30:22.360 --> 00:30:24.560 but our lift stations are still called that. 00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:26.400 So a little bit of history there. 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:28.600 But this is just an area that shows you 00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:30.400 where they're up near highway 77, 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.200 as you go west to Crum. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:34.360 Those were those lift stations 00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:37.080 when they pumped back over in the Pecan Creek Basin. 00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:39.120 And I'll talk about the uniqueness of that 00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:40.680 a little bit more in a minute. 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.840 This is just an aerial photo 00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:44.520 of the Cooper Creek lift station. 00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:49.400 Sits off Mayhill Road that pumps over into Pecan. 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:52.800 Talked about the Hickory Creek lift station a little bit. 00:30:52.800 --> 00:30:54.040 That sits down by the, you know, 00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:56.520 where the old Alton bridge is, historic bridge. 00:30:56.520 --> 00:30:58.240 It sits down near that area. 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.040 It's kind of hidden back in the trees. 00:31:00.040 --> 00:31:02.640 These aren't glamorous things, 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.360 so nobody really wants to see them too much, yeah. 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:06.960 (indistinct chatter) 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.200 Well, I appreciate that. 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:12.400 It's a nice area, it's pretty. 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.120 And then lastly, where do we collect and treat that? 00:31:15.120 --> 00:31:16.200 We collect and treat 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.160 at the Pecan Creek Water Reclamation Plant. 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.200 It's been the only plant you've ever had since the 1950s. 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.440 And the last time it was updated 00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:26.920 to the current capacity of 21MGD 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:31.920 is when I was a rookie EIT engineer in 1993 here. 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:36.160 So there's been upgrades and improvements there, of course, 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:39.440 but it's lasted a long time and it's hanging in there 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:44.440 and we'll talk a little bit more in detail on that. 00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:46.440 Okay, so that's the existing system. 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:50.240 So now we want to drill down a little bit 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.200 on that plant that we just talked about. 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:53.160 And what I've labeled is 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.880 Pecan Creek Water Reclamation Plant size limitations. 00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.920 One thing that's unique about it, 00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:00.840 the current plant capacity right now 00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:03.920 as far as treated sewage on an average daily flow basis 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:05.560 is 21 million gallons a day. 00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:06.680 So that's what it can treat. 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.000 And you saw that average you all bring in is about 13. 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.080 There's some nuances to that 00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:14.920 due to the fact that during rainy months in the spring, 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.560 the actually continuous three month average 00:32:17.560 --> 00:32:18.760 is actually higher than that. 00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:20.080 And that's what you have to, 00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:22.880 the TCEQ or the state requires 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:24.960 that we actually size capacities 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.080 based on the three month running highest averages 00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:30.040 and that's closer to 15 to 20. 00:32:30.040 --> 00:32:35.040 So we're heading towards its capacity 00:32:35.040 --> 00:32:36.840 and I'll talk about that a little bit more 00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:37.880 in just a second. 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:42.520 So what are ways to increase the capacity? 00:32:42.520 --> 00:32:46.640 Well, the first thing we have to do is reach out to TCEQ 00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.400 and what they tell us based on environmental factors, 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.000 because right now the effluent discharge 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.000 after we treat it, it goes out, it's called effluent flow. 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.040 It dumps out into the pecan Creek directly 00:32:59.040 --> 00:33:01.760 and then that flows down into Lake Louisville. 00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:05.560 So that's how it gets treated. 00:33:05.560 --> 00:33:09.040 And there's a capacity limit based on the stream dynamics 00:33:09.040 --> 00:33:13.200 and that you can't discharge any more than 30 MGD 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.560 into the pecan Creek. 00:33:14.560 --> 00:33:16.720 So we know it's like, well, our numbers up here 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:18.720 are significantly higher than that and build out. 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.520 We see the 69 to 144. 00:33:20.520 --> 00:33:24.220 It's like, well, we've got to increase the capacity. 00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:28.440 So what we did was reach out during our analysis phase 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.040 to TCEQ and find out if there was an alternate location, 00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:33.520 we could discharge additional flow. 00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:37.320 And what we came up with is an area that's fairly close 00:33:37.320 --> 00:33:40.120 because instead of just gravity discharging it 00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:44.160 into the pecan Creek now, we're gonna now have to pump it 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.600 to a location near the lake, but that'll add 00:33:46.600 --> 00:33:50.640 an additional 25 MGD capacity to the plant. 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.440 So that being said, we can increase the plant 00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:58.120 all the way up to 55 MGD, which is a good thing. 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.280 But it's not quite enough, obviously, 00:34:00.280 --> 00:34:02.480 if you look at our build out flow numbers. 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:04.840 So what we have to start doing is looking at 00:34:04.840 --> 00:34:07.480 where else can we put treatment facilities 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.000 to handle the long-term growth. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.720 And that's part of the thing we wanna talk about. 00:34:11.720 --> 00:34:13.800 One thing to keep in mind when I was talking about 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:17.000 the increased capacity, the city's already in the works 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.040 on bringing forward, they've programmed in an additional 00:34:20.040 --> 00:34:23.100 five MGD additional capacity to be built. 00:34:23.100 --> 00:34:26.120 And they're in the beginning design phases 00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:27.400 of that particular project. 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.520 So things are moving forward at the plant facility already. 00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:33.880 And you'll see some of the details about that design phase 00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:38.200 coming forward probably in the next two to three months, 00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:39.960 I guess, Stephen will have some details 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.800 if you wanna ask him more about that particular plant. 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:47.600 So how are we going to address this? 00:34:47.600 --> 00:34:49.720 Let's drill back down in the Hickory Creek Basin 00:34:49.720 --> 00:34:51.920 a little bit, 'cause that's one of the areas 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.560 that we're gonna have to address this particular issue. 00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:58.120 What I did, I'm gonna toggle back and forth a little bit 00:34:58.120 --> 00:35:01.400 just to show you, I've put the city limits back on here 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.960 but I didn't shade it in so it wouldn't cover up some things. 00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:08.080 But you can see, I wanna focus in a little bit 00:35:08.080 --> 00:35:10.880 the city limits line you see right over here. 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.840 And when if we toggle on those developments 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.600 that we talked about, we drill down a little bit more 00:35:16.600 --> 00:35:20.400 and we toggle those on, you can see the Hunter Coal Ranch 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:25.400 which we show having a build out or a full development 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:28.440 capacity, sorry, build outs your whole system, 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.960 the full development capacity here about seven million 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.000 gallons a day on average would come into the Hunter Coal 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:36.320 property, now it's within your city limits. 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.080 They've come in several, several years ago. 00:35:39.080 --> 00:35:42.120 So we've been planning on those, there's actually agreements 00:35:42.120 --> 00:35:44.880 between the Hunter Coal folks and the city 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.020 on infrastructure for that. 00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:51.000 But the amount of development you see out here in the West 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.320 is fairly new, it's what Scott was talking about 00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:56.640 that's come through fairly aggressively in the last year. 00:35:56.640 --> 00:35:59.480 And so this is where we have pivoted to look at this 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.160 a little bit and what are the ramifications 00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:06.640 if all these areas are served by the city of Denton. 00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:09.080 So that's kind of what we're looking at here. 00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:12.520 So what we did was go ahead and add conveyance 00:36:12.520 --> 00:36:15.240 or the collection mains that would be needed 00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:16.680 along with the treatment facilities. 00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:18.640 Now granted, this is fully developed 00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:22.040 so don't think this has to occur in a year or two. 00:36:22.040 --> 00:36:23.440 So this is big picture. 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:27.760 So what you see is a conveyance of almost $220 million 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:31.980 worth of work or 0.22 billion of lines. 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:33.600 You can see they kind of look like creeks. 00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:34.440 Well, that's true. 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:35.840 What we do is parallel the creeks. 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.040 We wanna transport as much of this as we can 00:36:39.040 --> 00:36:41.820 at the lowest long-term cost and that's gravity. 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:44.340 So we're letting nature do the work for us. 00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:46.120 So that's what the conveyance is. 00:36:46.120 --> 00:36:49.300 And then the treatment facility here we show 00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:53.100 to be able to carry the seven, the build out of the 10, 00:36:53.100 --> 00:36:55.200 the 10 number here, sorry, I didn't explain this, 00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:58.080 that little dotted more Western developments. 00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:01.480 If you add it up, all their fully developed flows, 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:03.920 they're about 10 million gallons a day. 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:06.640 And we have the additional seven for niner coal. 00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:09.400 And then there's an existing three that's already out 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.120 in the system today we're accounting for 00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:13.120 that gets you to the 20. 00:37:13.120 --> 00:37:16.380 So then if we build a treatment plant to handle all of that, 00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:18.240 it's a little over a billion dollars. 00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:21.040 It's significant cost for treatment. 00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:24.120 And those numbers have gone up nearly 30% 00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:26.000 in just the last year. 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:27.400 - Just like everything. 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.520 - Does that include the TCEQ tolerance? 00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:33.320 - Yes, we have capacity here at that. 00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.360 We have some capacity to discharge directly 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.700 into the Hickory Creek at this specific location. 00:37:40.700 --> 00:37:45.320 But then what we've all and as we come back to you all again, 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.640 we can give you some more detail about that other locate. 00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:49.820 We had to reach out to TCEU again and going, 00:37:49.820 --> 00:37:52.840 okay, they won't let us put 20 here. 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.480 We can put about six and a half or so. 00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:56.740 I think it's what the number is. 00:37:56.740 --> 00:37:58.560 We have to find other locations. 00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:02.800 We've investigated that there are other places 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.220 in the basin that we can discharge. 00:38:05.220 --> 00:38:07.580 But then we'll also get into some unique things 00:38:07.580 --> 00:38:11.980 about one water master planning and direct portable reuse 00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:14.200 and things where we can utilize 00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:16.400 maybe for future development irrigation 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.840 where you can scalp off some of that. 00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:21.120 That's a lot of detail that we all will get into 00:38:21.120 --> 00:38:23.080 in a future presentation that we'll bring forward 00:38:23.080 --> 00:38:25.400 to this group probably over the next year or so 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:26.240 and talk about. 00:38:26.240 --> 00:38:29.160 Okay. 00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:30.800 - So just to clarify. - Yes, sir. 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.920 - The rest would be relifted over 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:37.120 like as treated effluent would be relifted over 00:38:37.120 --> 00:38:40.000 and discharged on the Pekala Creek side? 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.320 - No, we can discharge into the Hickory Creek basin. 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.080 - But six or seven, you said. 00:38:44.080 --> 00:38:45.960 - Yes, but what we've looked at 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.220 is trying to move up the other areas 00:38:48.220 --> 00:38:51.800 within the basin itself upstream. 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.240 And then you can pump back up and discharge 00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:57.400 into the Hickory Creek basin and further reaches. 00:38:57.400 --> 00:38:59.920 Instead of, we're limited in pecan already. 00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:02.000 We showed you the kind of numbers we were limited to pecan 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.720 so we can't keep going there. 00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:05.240 We've got to find other areas. 00:39:05.240 --> 00:39:06.600 - Just one line straight to there. 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:07.600 - Yeah. 00:39:07.600 --> 00:39:09.720 - So basically you hit tributaries of Hickory Creek 00:39:09.720 --> 00:39:12.320 and you try to, and you put three here and two here. 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:13.240 - Yes, exactly. 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:17.040 - That's very intuitive, that's exactly what we do. 00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:19.680 And we've got maps and we can show you a lot of that, 00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:22.480 but we could be here all day too. 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:23.960 And I could be happy to talk. 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:25.120 And I know that's not what you, 00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:26.760 y'all got other things to do, so. 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:29.880 Okay, let me double check on a few. 00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.520 One thing that we are doing today, 00:39:31.520 --> 00:39:33.460 wanted to let you point out is, 00:39:33.460 --> 00:39:35.440 we're already in negotiations with the Birch family 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.940 for purchases of the land for a treatment plant there. 00:39:37.940 --> 00:39:39.640 So that's in the works. 00:39:39.640 --> 00:39:42.120 There's our, the Birch property 00:39:42.120 --> 00:39:47.120 that's just, it's the, you know, it's, they live, 00:39:47.120 --> 00:39:51.040 it's a wedge between 377 and Country Crullover Road 00:39:51.040 --> 00:39:53.080 and the railroad track runs through that corridor. 00:39:53.080 --> 00:39:54.640 - Do you know where my office is? 00:39:54.640 --> 00:39:55.480 - No. 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:56.300 - Okay. 00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:57.140 (laughing) 00:39:57.140 --> 00:39:57.980 - I do. 00:39:57.980 --> 00:39:58.800 - Sorry. 00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.640 - It just sounds thicker. 00:39:59.640 --> 00:40:00.480 - Okay. 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.120 - Those old bottoms, you know, 00:40:02.120 --> 00:40:04.960 and then they put the, they put that substation, 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.600 the electric substation up there on top. 00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:10.060 But those old bottoms on 377, 00:40:10.060 --> 00:40:11.320 where everything just drops off, 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:12.920 there was no quarry down in there. 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:13.760 - Okay. 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.440 - You know where the Hills of Argyle subdivision is, 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:16.940 Office 377? 00:40:16.940 --> 00:40:17.780 - Yeah. 00:40:17.780 --> 00:40:19.500 - Yeah, if you went towards Hickory Creek bottoms 00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:22.040 down in there, it's east of there. 00:40:22.040 --> 00:40:23.520 - Okay, I get the general idea. 00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:24.360 - Yeah. 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:25.200 - Okay. 00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:26.400 - It's kind of, it's kind of covered up here, 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.160 but you can see the 377s right here, 00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:30.840 and that's where Hickory Creek crosses, 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:33.120 and we're back to the east of that area. 00:40:33.120 --> 00:40:33.960 - Got you, thanks. 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.400 - So yeah, yeah, it's the Birch property. 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:37.600 They've had it for years, the family farm. 00:40:37.600 --> 00:40:38.760 - MC? 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:39.920 - MC Birch, yeah. 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.520 - Richard's there. 00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:42.600 - Yeah, story with him. 00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:44.040 I was funny, we were doing a water line 00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:45.760 for you guys out on 377, 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:47.100 and we were walking down the right-of-way, 00:40:47.100 --> 00:40:49.580 putting stakes out for doing some geotechnical stuff, 00:40:49.580 --> 00:40:51.380 and he comes out in his pickup truck. 00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:52.220 (laughing) 00:40:52.220 --> 00:40:53.060 - He probably had a gun with him. 00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:53.880 - Of course, at that time, 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:55.200 you still had a gun rack in your back. 00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:56.120 (laughing) 00:40:56.120 --> 00:40:57.720 And thank goodness, I was standing on 00:40:57.720 --> 00:41:00.920 Tech Stop property, not his property. 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:02.000 (laughing) 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.100 And he kinda asked me what I was doing. 00:41:04.100 --> 00:41:05.840 I was told, and he said, "Okay, 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:08.080 just as long as you staying out here, you're fine." 00:41:08.080 --> 00:41:10.200 And we're like, "We understand." 00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:12.520 So he's a character, so. 00:41:12.520 --> 00:41:14.040 Anyway, okay. 00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:14.880 What else? 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:16.000 One thing I wanna keep in mind, 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.300 let's illustrate to you guys a little bit too. 00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:19.920 You see the big chunk of line 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.280 that's within the Hunter Cole property? 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.900 If that's just serving them, they're gonna build that. 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:30.420 We wouldn't put that burden on the citizens here in Denton 00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:33.520 to have to build that infrastructure. 00:41:33.520 --> 00:41:35.440 That's the one thing you need to keep in mind 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:36.680 when we do this. 00:41:36.680 --> 00:41:39.060 The impact fees are a part of offsetting the cost 00:41:39.060 --> 00:41:40.120 on the current residents. 00:41:40.120 --> 00:41:42.840 It's about development paying for development 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:44.760 and paying for this infrastructure. 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:47.540 Now, the piece you see that's kinda in between the plant, 00:41:47.540 --> 00:41:49.480 there would be a cost share there 00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:51.240 where Hunter Cole's paying a portion of that, 00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:53.940 and then the city's paying another portion 00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:55.560 to be able to accommodate the growth 00:41:55.560 --> 00:41:58.560 of other properties within that area. 00:41:58.560 --> 00:41:59.400 Yes, sir. 00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.040 - Is Hunter Cole Ranch doing a special improvement district 00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:05.160 to help offset some of these costs? 00:42:05.160 --> 00:42:07.040 - It's a little bit unique compared 00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:08.180 to some of the others out here 00:42:08.180 --> 00:42:11.040 that may be trying to do their own utilities completely. 00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:13.720 They also, they realize that, 00:42:13.720 --> 00:42:17.840 hey, we're gonna be on Denton system from the start. 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:19.160 We understand there's infrastructure 00:42:19.160 --> 00:42:21.040 that needs to be built, 00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:24.080 so they're gonna do a municipal maintenance. 00:42:24.080 --> 00:42:25.480 Municipal maintenance? 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:26.320 - Management. 00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:27.880 - Management district, sorry. 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:29.360 A municipal management district 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:32.240 encompasses more than just water and wastewater utilities, 00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:34.480 roadways and several other things. 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.960 And it's a financing mechanism for them 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:40.620 to be able to afford their piece, if you will. 00:42:40.620 --> 00:42:42.320 And then there's partnership. 00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.800 (indistinct) 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:48.400 It is in a finance, it's kind of a financing. 00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.240 It's a-- 00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:51.680 (indistinct) 00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:53.240 Yeah, they basically start, 00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:56.760 there's a tax of the people that live there only. 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.240 - Yeah, they're issuing bonds and then we'll-- 00:42:59.240 --> 00:43:00.600 (indistinct) 00:43:00.600 --> 00:43:03.760 Yes, but they are, they're able to issue the bonds 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.680 and then repay back. 00:43:05.680 --> 00:43:06.800 - Yeah, and it's within-- 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.220 (indistinct) 00:43:09.220 --> 00:43:17.160 - Yeah, they brought forward, they have a MPC, 00:43:17.160 --> 00:43:18.520 a master plan community with the city 00:43:18.520 --> 00:43:19.480 and then did the MMD. 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:21.280 So we have four teams, 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.080 if this isn't off posting, Marcella, 00:43:23.080 --> 00:43:24.680 we have four teams internally, 00:43:24.680 --> 00:43:27.380 infrastructure, planning, administration, 00:43:27.380 --> 00:43:29.260 all working hand in hand with both of those groups 00:43:29.260 --> 00:43:32.440 to work through the planning of all infrastructure, yeah. 00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:34.320 - Yeah, it's significant. 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:35.880 I mean, I think they're build outs 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.100 in the 40 to 50,000 people kind of numbers. 00:43:39.100 --> 00:43:42.960 Yeah, so, you know, it's a quarter of what the city is today. 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:44.600 So it's significant. 00:43:44.600 --> 00:43:46.840 - So while we're on the topic of utility districts, 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:50.520 the other, the dotted ones out there, 00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:52.400 they're outside of our CCN, 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.500 would they apply to become their own utility district 00:43:54.500 --> 00:43:57.120 and we're just like a wholesale provider or-- 00:43:57.120 --> 00:43:59.360 - That's part of coming together 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:01.120 to talk about this a little bit today. 00:44:01.120 --> 00:44:04.140 So there's probably a yes, yes, no, 00:44:04.140 --> 00:44:07.400 and maybe in all of that to answer that specific question 00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:11.500 because each one of these areas is unique to themselves. 00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:14.860 Let me get to the rest and we'll come back 00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:17.000 and Stephen can probably address some specifics 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:20.080 that I'm not involved in at this particular time 00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:21.320 with regards to some of those, 00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:23.460 if you'd like specifics about that. 00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:26.000 That's all right with you, okay. 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:27.200 - I don't mean to interrupt you, 00:44:27.200 --> 00:44:31.000 but we got word that Billy can't pick up on our voices. 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:31.840 So if you're talking, 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.680 please make sure your microphone is on 00:44:34.680 --> 00:44:36.880 and you're speaking into the microphone. 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:40.280 - Is that a little better online? 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:41.640 - Yeah. - Okay. 00:44:41.640 --> 00:44:43.800 All right, that's Hickory Creek. 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.640 And so what we're looking to do 00:44:45.640 --> 00:44:48.360 is accommodate portion of that treatment 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.960 is what's the real driver here. 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.600 We can accommodate a large chunk of that treatment 00:44:52.600 --> 00:44:53.960 in the Hickory Creek Basin 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.960 that gets us to those ultimate build-out numbers 00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:58.960 that we talked about at the very beginning. 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.560 So let's jump up here to the Clear Creek Basin, 00:45:01.560 --> 00:45:03.880 which is north of town. 00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:04.720 As you can see here, 00:45:04.720 --> 00:45:07.600 there is no wastewater infrastructure 00:45:07.600 --> 00:45:09.600 in the Clear Creek Basin today. 00:45:09.600 --> 00:45:11.600 Anything that comes to the, 00:45:11.600 --> 00:45:13.240 that's built in the Clear Creek Basin, 00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:16.160 for example, like we talked about the developments in here 00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:18.440 and some new developments that are coming in here, 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.560 they will pump over into the Pecan Creek Basin. 00:45:21.560 --> 00:45:23.520 And frankly, it's getting close to its capacity 00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:25.000 in the upper reaches. 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:26.560 'Cause the upper reaches of the basin 00:45:26.560 --> 00:45:29.840 were never designed to continue to carry 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.040 the Milam Creek area flows. 00:45:32.040 --> 00:45:34.440 The Milam Creek area flows have always been planned 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:36.680 and are planned to go into the Clear Creek Basin, 00:45:36.680 --> 00:45:38.680 which is what they naturally flow. 00:45:38.680 --> 00:45:41.920 So you go, what is that, what that might look like? 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:43.680 Let's turn on some more graphics 00:45:43.680 --> 00:45:45.640 with regards to the limits. 00:45:45.640 --> 00:45:47.560 This is a little bit hard to see, 00:45:47.560 --> 00:45:49.760 but what you see, I'll turn it off, 00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:50.720 turn it back on again. 00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:55.720 So we have portions of the Milam Creek Basin 00:45:57.520 --> 00:45:59.160 are in city limits. 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:01.360 And then you see a large area over here 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.160 that's in the city limits that's related 00:46:03.160 --> 00:46:07.800 to bringing water down from Lake Ray Roberts predominantly. 00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.960 So it's like, okay, what's coming? 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:12.800 Well, before I talk about the developments 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:15.400 in the Milam Creek area and the small developments up here, 00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:17.080 I want you to keep in mind, 00:46:17.080 --> 00:46:20.760 the city knew this was gonna happen years ago. 00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:24.440 And in 2000, y'all purchased over 200 acres of land. 00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:29.280 It looks like a bargain basement price nowadays. 00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:31.760 You know, wasn't much over a million dollars, I think, 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.560 at the time, a million and a half or something 00:46:34.560 --> 00:46:36.980 for that 200 acres for a treatment 00:46:36.980 --> 00:46:38.620 that was going to occur in the future. 00:46:38.620 --> 00:46:40.820 So y'all already own that land. 00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:45.620 So that's a super positive thing that's occurred already. 00:46:45.620 --> 00:46:47.360 So what we wanted to do is just focus 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.360 on what it would take to serve the development 00:46:53.720 --> 00:46:56.840 of fully developed properties in Milam Creek 00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:59.800 along with these inquiries that have happened up here. 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:01.880 There's about four MGD worth of build out 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:03.720 in the Milam Creek basin. 00:47:03.720 --> 00:47:07.000 Another one MGD of inquiry up here. 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:09.420 Similar to the Hickory Creek exhibit, 00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:14.420 we added the conveyance or the collection lines, 00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:16.160 the gravity collection lines you would need 00:47:16.160 --> 00:47:19.640 to get to these places and then convey down 00:47:19.640 --> 00:47:22.920 to the property that you already own. 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.400 And that five MGD to accommodate that, 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.760 you're talking about $95 million worth of conveyance 00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:32.320 and about $250 million worth of treatment, 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.080 which totals to about $345 million. 00:47:35.080 --> 00:47:37.840 Once again, this doesn't have to happen next week 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:42.760 or next year, but we're planning for the future. 00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:43.880 And that's what this is about. 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.800 And illustrating to y'all, this is a big step for the city. 00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:51.800 We've had a single treatment plant for nearly 70 years now 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.560 and it's time to start moving forward to where, 00:47:54.560 --> 00:47:58.060 we're meeting it's, we're getting beyond its capacity 00:47:58.060 --> 00:48:00.480 and need to move forward to seeing other areas 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.240 to treat wastewater. 00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:05.400 Okay, so, yes, sir. 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:06.560 - Thanks. 00:48:06.560 --> 00:48:11.560 So with our existing and then proposed to new treatments, 00:48:11.560 --> 00:48:16.160 are we getting up to around 50 MGD? 00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:17.560 Am I-- - Well, the numbers 00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:19.640 that we're showing here that I illustrated 00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:21.640 are focused just on those developments 00:48:21.640 --> 00:48:23.840 and accommodating those developments. 00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:26.700 What we'll do when we do more comprehensive, 00:48:26.700 --> 00:48:28.600 the plan and we'll come back with you guys, 00:48:28.600 --> 00:48:30.640 we're gonna look at beyond just those developments. 00:48:30.640 --> 00:48:32.800 Your land use, your future land use plan 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:35.800 has a lot of other places to show development 00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.200 and we need to accommodate that. 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:41.760 So this was just to illustrate the urgency 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:45.000 with regards to the development that just has come in 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.340 within the last year that Scott talked about, 00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:50.580 that has kind of ratcheted up the urgency 00:48:50.580 --> 00:48:53.200 that we didn't anticipate when we first started doing y'all 00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:54.560 working on this. 00:48:54.560 --> 00:48:58.960 So we've kind of, you know, kind of deviated over 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.320 to focus in on this a little bit more, 00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:02.880 but we will look even big picture. 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:04.460 So it'll be need to be even more 00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:06.580 than what you see here today. 00:49:06.580 --> 00:49:08.440 So just to accommodate the development 00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:09.840 that we're talking about here, 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:11.920 it's a total of a little over, you know, 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.920 $1.6 billion worth of infrastructure. 00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:16.080 You know, and you're probably-- - That's a B. 00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:17.760 - That's with a B. 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:19.920 Yes, I know it, it's a big number. 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.680 There's no doubt and that's why we wanna talk to you early 00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:24.960 'cause we're here to... 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.280 This is a vision thing, big picture thing 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.920 that not only y'all is advisory to the council 00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:31.420 and of course the council is gonna have to make 00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:36.420 some big decisions on how to address these developments. 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.440 And so that's why we wanna talk about it now 00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:40.080 when we first hear about it, 00:49:40.080 --> 00:49:42.600 not when we're done with the report 00:49:42.600 --> 00:49:45.360 'cause that's not too late. 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.560 We could redo things, but how about we just do it 00:49:47.560 --> 00:49:49.160 while we're in the middle of the process? 00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:52.080 (indistinct chatter) 00:49:52.080 --> 00:49:52.920 Yeah, for sure. 00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:54.480 - So when you talk about these improvements, 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:56.620 are we talking about putting reclamation plants 00:49:56.620 --> 00:49:59.400 in the Clear Creek and Hickory Creek? 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.600 - Correct, yeah, I can show you the map again if you'd like. 00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:04.400 Okay, yes, it'd be, you would, 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:06.320 the city would then operate three plant, 00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.960 yeah, two more plants, which would total three 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.080 and that should get, there's, they would build in capacity 00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:14.320 in the size of the property that you've purchased 00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:17.340 would get you to the build out number that we saw. 00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:20.640 We could get you all the way up to the 144MGD 00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:21.680 if you wanted to go there. 00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:24.520 So it's setting you up for in perpetuity. 00:50:24.520 --> 00:50:25.800 - Oh, good. 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.000 - Yeah, okay, yes. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:29.520 - Go ahead. 00:50:29.520 --> 00:50:30.760 - I'll go back or-- 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:31.920 - Well, yeah, just a few more questions 00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.360 kind of in this vein, how long does it take to construct, 00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:39.880 if we own the land, what is our trigger that says, 00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:41.280 okay, we have to build this now? 00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:46.400 Like, is it the first house building permit in Hunter Cole 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:51.240 or the next mud or do we need two years or four years 00:50:51.240 --> 00:50:52.440 to build the infrastructure? 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.460 - Let's look at Hunter Cole just as a great example. 00:50:55.460 --> 00:50:59.040 The good thing you can do now that's great about this is, 00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:03.660 well, let's see if I can, let's show it that way first. 00:51:03.660 --> 00:51:04.780 It's simpler. 00:51:04.780 --> 00:51:07.160 You're collecting, there's residents 00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:10.040 that live in Hickory Creek today. 00:51:10.040 --> 00:51:12.680 So we have capacity in Hickory Creek today 00:51:12.680 --> 00:51:16.280 to collect at the lift station today and pump over. 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:17.500 And we'll continue to that. 00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:19.280 Hunter Cole could come on today 00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.840 with not a whole lot of houses, 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.440 but enough houses to keep, they can move forward. 00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:29.440 They can, we put in this line right here 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.600 that gets put in probably first. 00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:34.360 There are some other lines that aren't on the map 00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:35.840 that actually serve the southern half 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:38.760 that actually get into the Hickory Creek main today also. 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.520 And then they can gravity down to the lift station 00:51:41.520 --> 00:51:43.960 and pump over and get treated today. 00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:48.280 So we need $40 million in conveyance, 00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:51.640 that first large conveyance line sized for future growth. 00:51:51.640 --> 00:51:54.040 - And we'll break down as we bring the master planning, 00:51:54.040 --> 00:51:57.440 we'll break down these individual project details to you 00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:58.920 if you'd like to know. 00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:01.240 - Well, and then there's a trigger point at, 00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:02.800 okay, the lift station is at 80 or 90%. 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.520 - No longer at capacity, correct. 00:52:04.520 --> 00:52:07.240 And that's the big trigger point in this. 00:52:07.240 --> 00:52:08.120 After you build it, 00:52:08.120 --> 00:52:11.060 there's some trigger points that TCEQ requires. 00:52:11.060 --> 00:52:12.480 If you're getting so much flow, 00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.560 75% of the capacity, then you start design. 00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:18.720 And then if you reach 90% of capacity of the plant, 00:52:18.720 --> 00:52:21.640 then you have to be in construction. 00:52:21.640 --> 00:52:23.440 A general rule of thumb for y'all, 00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:28.880 design on a project to that magnitude takes about a year, 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:32.240 construction two, two and a half, depending. 00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:36.280 Now, it's scary right now due to the supply side of things. 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:38.960 We've never experienced what we've been experiencing 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:42.260 in the last year and a half with regards to that. 00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:46.520 When that clears, we'd all be millionaires, 00:52:46.520 --> 00:52:48.920 if I could tell you the answer to that. 00:52:48.920 --> 00:52:50.080 (indistinct) 00:52:50.080 --> 00:52:52.920 Yeah, but we do our best. 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:54.880 We just keep plugging away. 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:56.760 It's affecting all of us. 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.560 So it affects the construction industry 00:52:59.560 --> 00:53:01.820 and supply of materials needed 00:53:01.820 --> 00:53:03.280 to construct these kinds of facilities. 00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.280 So it's an interesting dynamic 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.920 where the growth's still coming, 00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:08.720 but this is why we have inflation, 00:53:08.720 --> 00:53:11.920 is the supply side can't deliver what growth needs. 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:13.440 So the price goes up. 00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.960 That's kind of a way over simplification, 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.880 but y'all understand the economics of that. 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:25.160 So I will let you know where we're heading here 00:53:25.160 --> 00:53:27.140 and coming back to you guys. 00:53:27.140 --> 00:53:29.840 So first big thing we need to do, 00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:31.400 I think the question was kind of already asked, 00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.200 we're gonna meet with planning and Scott's team, 00:53:34.200 --> 00:53:35.360 talk about finalizing. 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:38.620 We've got to throw some kind of dart at growth rate. 00:53:38.620 --> 00:53:41.080 The comp plan currently right now, 00:53:41.080 --> 00:53:42.920 if you looked at the whole city in general, 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:44.300 it's two and a half percent. 00:53:44.300 --> 00:53:46.440 I think it's what's been assumed, 00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:48.440 but you can see we have to focus 00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:50.760 on the infrastructure by basin. 00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:52.660 And you notice the Hickory Creek basin 00:53:52.660 --> 00:53:55.100 is where most of that development's coming. 00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:57.640 So the odds of the growth rate being two and a half percent 00:53:57.640 --> 00:53:59.280 in Hickory is probably not true. 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.280 It's something higher than that. 00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:03.080 So we're gonna get with Scott 00:54:03.080 --> 00:54:07.640 take a big shot at what we think it might be, right? 00:54:07.640 --> 00:54:10.400 He's kind of smiling going, oh no. 00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:15.440 So we got to have those and what that allows us to do, 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:18.200 we've got some hydraulic modeling tools that we use 00:54:18.200 --> 00:54:20.560 that not only we use for sizing your infrastructure, 00:54:20.560 --> 00:54:22.560 but then we pass that on to your staff 00:54:22.560 --> 00:54:25.800 and your staff then uses that going into the future 00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:28.480 as a tool for how to size. 00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:30.600 And when things change, they can get in there and go, 00:54:30.600 --> 00:54:32.920 well, we don't need a 48 inch pipeline now, 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:37.920 we need a 54 inch because the data center came in 00:54:38.100 --> 00:54:41.600 and the land use changed and let's reanalyze that. 00:54:41.600 --> 00:54:43.200 So we're developing a tool for your staff 00:54:43.200 --> 00:54:45.140 to be able to use into the future. 00:54:45.140 --> 00:54:48.640 From after we get the planning numbers on growth, 00:54:48.640 --> 00:54:51.360 this is when we do our first draft of the five, 10 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.480 and 25 year capital improvement plans. 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:57.280 And then from there, one thing that we've done 00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:00.620 as part of our planning and it really ties to your one water 00:55:00.620 --> 00:55:03.520 is we, NUGEN Strategies who's worked with y'all 00:55:03.520 --> 00:55:05.720 for a number of years on the financing side, 00:55:05.720 --> 00:55:08.600 we have them as a sub-consultant to us to go, 00:55:08.600 --> 00:55:10.640 how do you pay for this stuff? 00:55:10.640 --> 00:55:12.840 Yeah, there's a big number and there's a list, 00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:15.360 but what's really important to all of us 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:16.520 is how does it get paid for? 00:55:16.520 --> 00:55:18.480 Y'all talked a little bit about your budgeting, 00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.920 they partner with your finance folks 00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:23.760 while we're doing the plan, not after the fact 00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:27.920 and go, hey, what effect is this on our rates? 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:29.200 And that's really big deal 00:55:29.200 --> 00:55:31.600 and what's the effect on their impact fees. 00:55:31.600 --> 00:55:34.480 So we'll do that and then of course, 00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.280 at that time we'll stop down at a draft level 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.320 and have the staff review. 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:42.120 We'll come back to y'all again to review and talk about it 00:55:42.120 --> 00:55:43.160 as we're further along. 00:55:43.160 --> 00:55:46.040 And then of course, council gets y'all's vision 00:55:46.040 --> 00:55:49.400 and thoughts and questions, try to address those. 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:50.920 And then we complete the report 00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:54.200 and then come back to you again with the final report 00:55:54.200 --> 00:55:55.860 and for approval. 00:55:55.860 --> 00:56:00.520 - So I'm just making sure I understand 00:56:00.520 --> 00:56:03.760 the financing of this entire project. 00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:07.720 Obviously the developer has to put in their part of it 00:56:07.720 --> 00:56:09.240 but downstream is gonna be, 00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:11.520 we're counting on the impact fees to pay us back 00:56:11.520 --> 00:56:13.680 for the investment we'll put into there, correct? 00:56:13.680 --> 00:56:15.920 - As much as you can and keep in mind, 00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:17.640 impact fees work on a, 00:56:17.640 --> 00:56:20.880 the state law requires that they work on a 10 year window. 00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:22.080 So think about this infrastructure, 00:56:22.080 --> 00:56:25.240 it's getting built to serve way beyond 10 years. 00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:30.240 So what you do is you get to recover a 10 year window number 00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:33.360 and then the part of the infrastructure 00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:35.760 that's sized beyond the 10 years, 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.280 you then get to recover when we do the impact fee update 00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:39.760 again in five years, you get the, 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:41.860 it's a rolling 10 year window. 00:56:41.860 --> 00:56:45.480 So you slowly recover as development's still coming in, 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:48.720 you slowly recover more and more of that infrastructure cost 00:56:48.720 --> 00:56:49.560 through impact fee. 00:56:49.560 --> 00:56:52.840 Now it's not dollar for dollar, it isn't. 00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:54.760 - It doesn't account for inflation either. 00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:59.020 - Yeah, yeah, and we can, we can build in to some degree. 00:56:59.020 --> 00:56:59.860 That's one thing that, 00:56:59.860 --> 00:57:01.940 that's an assumption that we'll need to talk about. 00:57:01.940 --> 00:57:03.840 The dollars I am showing you here today, 00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:05.860 that's a great reminder 'cause I didn't say it, 00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:08.240 is it's present dollars today. 00:57:08.240 --> 00:57:11.240 Now, if I would have done this a year ago, 00:57:11.240 --> 00:57:14.040 I would have been way under shooting the number. 00:57:14.040 --> 00:57:18.760 So do, do numbers, do these numbers ever go down? 00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:20.280 No. 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.660 Will they flatten maybe for a period of time? 00:57:22.660 --> 00:57:23.940 We're hoping so. 00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:25.040 We're seeing a little bit of it 00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:27.260 in the construction industry right now. 00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:29.180 I don't know how many times my estimate 00:57:29.180 --> 00:57:32.160 over the last six months has been the low bidder 00:57:32.160 --> 00:57:34.440 on jobs that we've put out on the street. 00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:35.800 It's been pretty, you know, 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:37.680 which I've never had that kind of issue before. 00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:40.040 So we're recalibrating our cost projections 00:57:40.040 --> 00:57:41.560 and that's kind of what's reflected here 00:57:41.560 --> 00:57:43.020 and why that number's so big. 00:57:43.020 --> 00:57:46.380 - (indistinct) 00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:53.240 - That's, that, that's a-- 00:57:53.240 --> 00:57:54.280 - That's a whole nother-- 00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:57.000 - Yeah, that's a choice that it's made at y'all's, 00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.720 I won't say anything about that. 00:57:59.720 --> 00:58:00.560 - Okay. 00:58:00.560 --> 00:58:03.760 - So that's, that's the end of my presentation. 00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:05.720 I'll be happy to go back and look at any slide 00:58:05.720 --> 00:58:07.720 or I may have just wore you out. 00:58:07.720 --> 00:58:09.800 Don't want to talk about anymore. 00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:11.760 - Go ahead, Devin. 00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:13.400 - So I just, I have a couple, 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:14.920 returning to the CCN question, 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:17.440 and this might be more for you. 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:22.920 With those developments that are outside of our current CCN, 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:25.760 would we be looking at expanding our CCN 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:29.280 or looking at, we're a wholesale provider 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:32.280 and they're a utility district or-- 00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:33.840 - That really depends. 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:37.800 We've been talking with the developers in that area 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.360 and they have a strong appetite 00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:42.360 for us to receive services from us. 00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:44.160 But what that would require essentially 00:58:44.160 --> 00:58:46.440 is them petitioning the CCN holder, 00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.120 which is I believe Sanger in that area 00:58:49.120 --> 00:58:52.120 and request to be released from the CCN. 00:58:52.120 --> 00:58:54.720 And Sanger doesn't have any infrastructure 00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:57.040 in that area and that's one of the criteria 00:58:57.040 --> 00:59:00.480 that the Texas Public Utilities Commission looks at 00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:02.600 when they consider those applications. 00:59:02.600 --> 00:59:05.280 So they would have to go through the process 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.720 and that would be, we would have a developer agreement 00:59:07.720 --> 00:59:09.400 with those communities. 00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:11.680 You can get released from Sanger CCN 00:59:11.680 --> 00:59:13.600 and then accept service from us. 00:59:13.600 --> 00:59:16.800 Or if it makes more financial sense 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:19.560 for us to be like a wholesale provider, we would do that. 00:59:19.560 --> 00:59:22.760 But the advantage of having them release 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:26.760 from the CCN and become part of the City of Denton 00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:28.840 is building to our criteria, right? 00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:31.880 So we have more of a more leverage 00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:34.120 to ensure that the infrastructure is designed 00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:36.240 and constructed to our standards 00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:38.080 when we're the service provider. 00:59:38.080 --> 00:59:38.920 Does that make sense? 00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:40.480 - Yeah, and would we be looking at 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:44.480 development by development piecemeal 00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:46.960 or would we try and say here's the gravity line 00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:51.080 of Hickory Creek and hey, seven developers, 00:59:51.080 --> 00:59:53.280 maybe you wanna get together and we'll support you 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.040 in this negotiation with Sanger? 00:59:55.040 --> 00:59:57.760 - Yeah, Scott's really been the lead on these discussions. 00:59:57.760 --> 00:59:59.520 I'm gonna let him kind of jump in. 00:59:59.520 --> 01:00:03.440 - He didn't wanna touch it with a 10-foot pole. 01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:04.720 (laughing) 01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:06.880 - That's why I asked you here. 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.360 - So it's fairly complicated. 01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:14.960 A number of these MUDs are being proposed 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:18.840 with some similar ownership. 01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.200 So we've put all of those folks into a room 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:23.720 and we've kind of talked about their needs, 01:00:23.720 --> 01:00:25.400 our needs, our concerns. 01:00:25.400 --> 01:00:28.120 And it really started with water 01:00:28.120 --> 01:00:31.680 and groundwater is an issue. 01:00:31.680 --> 01:00:34.360 We have surface water available to us. 01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:38.360 So as we talk about water and wastewater, 01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:41.760 as Stephen indicated, there is an appetite 01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.280 for them to be serviced by the city. 01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.720 Our greater concern is really long-term. 01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:50.240 If something happens long-term and someone develops a MUD, 01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:53.600 the MUD they're able to develop by right 01:00:53.600 --> 01:00:56.640 through TCEQ or the legislature. 01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:59.400 So the city really doesn't have a lot of say. 01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:02.240 So where we have the advantage of having water 01:01:02.240 --> 01:01:06.040 and wastewater services available, we're trying to use that. 01:01:06.040 --> 01:01:07.800 So in talking to all of these. 01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.240 - Whoa, what was that? 01:01:10.240 --> 01:01:11.080 - Computer. 01:01:11.080 --> 01:01:11.920 - The shelf. 01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:13.080 (laughing) 01:01:13.080 --> 01:01:13.920 - We're good. 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:14.760 - It's all good. 01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:17.000 (laughing) 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.080 - Regroup. 01:01:19.080 --> 01:01:23.760 So we have a great opportunity to be able 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:26.240 to have infrastructure built 01:01:26.240 --> 01:01:30.440 through those municipal utility districts at their expense. 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:33.440 Where ultimately they would be getting services 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:35.160 through the city, from the city, 01:01:35.160 --> 01:01:38.000 and ultimately providing the infrastructure, 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:42.600 really with a minimum participation from the city. 01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:46.640 I think that I'm optimistic that a number 01:01:46.640 --> 01:01:51.080 of these municipal utility districts are looking forward 01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:52.840 to trying to put this together. 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:55.000 And as we just kind of walk through all of this, 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.400 it gives us a much better idea of really what they think 01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.800 that their uses are and what that density would look like. 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:04.360 So they provided all of that modeling. 01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:06.720 Stephen's team's working through that currently. 01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:09.480 So they've done that in the last couple of weeks. 01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:12.800 As I indicated, this has come on rather quickly. 01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:16.880 To the point it was, I think you'll hear our city manager 01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:18.840 say that we get a new one weekly. 01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:20.920 And it sure feels that way. 01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:22.960 But really it's been every couple, two, three weeks, 01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:25.360 they'll expand or add some other territory 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:26.920 into what those muds are. 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:30.360 It's a very simple tool for them to work through. 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.400 It just takes some time, if that answers your question. 01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:34.600 - Yeah, and I do have one more question 01:02:34.600 --> 01:02:36.800 that might be best posed to you as well. 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:42.760 Let me see if I have my notes. 01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:44.120 I'm sorry, just kind of figure it out. 01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:44.960 - No worries. 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:49.360 - Yeah, it does. 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:50.520 Gets much worse done. 01:02:50.520 --> 01:02:52.760 (laughing) 01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:58.120 - Okay, yeah, I'm sorry. 01:02:58.120 --> 01:02:59.960 I can't remember what my second question was. 01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:00.800 - No worries, I'll be here. 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:01.960 - Thank you. 01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:03.280 - All right. 01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:04.120 Other questions? 01:03:04.120 --> 01:03:06.360 (laughing) 01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:10.320 Other questions? 01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:12.200 All right. 01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:14.680 What do you need from us? 01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:15.800 Nothing, nothing, okay. 01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:18.160 - It was merely an update just to kind of 01:03:18.160 --> 01:03:19.880 make sure you understood where we were going. 01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:23.040 We didn't want any surprises to say those are big numbers. 01:03:23.040 --> 01:03:25.000 It's a lot of growth, it's a lot of infrastructure, 01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:26.600 and we just want to make sure we're ahead of it. 01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:27.960 - Yep. - Yeah? 01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:28.800 All right. - Good job. 01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:29.720 - Thank you, everyone. 01:03:29.720 --> 01:03:30.560 - Thank you. 01:03:30.560 --> 01:03:34.520 All right, that concludes the agenda. 01:03:34.520 --> 01:03:37.280 It is 10.05. 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.720 Do we have a motion to adjourn, Mr. Cheek? 01:03:39.720 --> 01:03:40.560 We're adjourned.