Welcome to the City of Denton Mobility Committee Wednesday, September 28, 2022, 10 a.m., and
we're in the council work session room.
After determining that a quorum is present, the Mobility Committee of Denton, Texas is
going to convene in a regular work session, which is what we're doing at this time.
First thing on the agenda is the citizens' comment on the agenda items.
Each section of the agenda allows citizens to speak on any individual consideration item
on the agenda.
Individuals are only able to comment one time per agenda item.
Each speaker will be given a total of three minutes per agenda item.
A request to speak card must be completed and returned to the staff liaison before the committee
considers an item.
Item number two, items for individual consideration, MC22-025, consider approval of the minutes
of August 17th, 2022.
Can I get a motion for approval?
I move approval of minutes.
I second and no, I.
The approval of the minutes have been approved.
MC22026, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the City of Denton transportation
mobility project status report.
Put that on full screen.
Good morning.
My name's Barry Heard.
I'm filling in for Mr. Polster today.
Looking at the first page of the agenda here, you'll see there's two projects that have
not been on there before, Bonnie Bray segment seven and the outer loop.
Project summary, this gives their usual project cost.
Moving on to the first project, FM2181.
This project is very near substantial completion with a traffic switch scheduled currently
for later in October, early November.
So that's the biggest thing.
They've got some retaining wall and sidewalk work to do and as well as some work along
the median.
I-35E at Mayhill.
This project, the 100% plans are due back to TxDOT within the next month and they will
be submitted for review with the final plans going to be completed roughly around the first
of the year.
On this project, the city, the permits are approved and the city's currently working
as you know on getting those contracted out.
35E and 35W merge.
This project has a rate of let date of August 2023 and a let date of September 23.
It is the goal potentially to try to move this project up if possible and that remains
to be seen as far as the scheduling with the letting volumes and with TxDOT.
35 North, this project just received our last CSJ which is actually out of the county to
the north ending at 3002.
95% plans are underway.
Project if you've noticed, if you've driven up 35, probably noticed the right of way is
being cleared, utilities are moving all up and down the corridor.
There's a lot of work going on.
And there's even you may want to notice as you come in 30 back and forth, the change
in one message signs are advertising closures, lane closures and everything that's going
on and related to that.
35W frontage roads, this 30% submittal is under review at TxDOT right now.
This project's moving along quite well.
The let date right now is September 2024.
380 at 377.
This is another project that's under construction right now.
The if you notice driven through there, the sidewalks and barriers along the roadway are
nearing completion of that phase.
The 288, loop 288 West frontage roads, there's 39 parcels to acquire, 19 owners have not
responded to the letters for right of entry.
So that's where TxDOT's focus is right now is getting those right of entry letters.
Loop 288 East frontage road, this project has unofficially kicked off with the official
kickoff on the design next week, October 5th, and we're currently working with the city
on potential alignments on the connector portion.
Bonnie Bray extension to the loop.
This photo is an illustration, nothing set in stone, but that's the latest that we have
right now as far as the extension to the loop.
This is something that is a work in progress, FM 1515, these plans are 60% that has just
been submitted recently, and those are currently under review at TxDOT.
The right of way on this project, 11 parcels are in negotiation currently, one acquired
project is scheduled for October 2024 letting, and the plans do roughly one year from now,
the 100% plans.
As soon as the right of way is acquired, the utilities will begin to move there.
FM 1173, this is a 3.6 mile project with a new portion of the new alignment over by Loves
on 35, Bartholdt Road, across a new location back to the existing 1173 on Endicurum.
This project has just started, there's 41 right of way parcels to acquire, and PATH
is the consultant, they've started the geotech boring.
The outer loop, this is a project that has recently kicked off also, the consultant is
LJA, they're currently working on coordinating with the Corps, because this project goes
across the Greenbelt and the cities of Aubrey and Salina on their future developments, and
they're developing a website for stakeholder outreach.
Elmond Locust, this is a project that the TxDOT is currently working on the pavement
design and it should be submitted back within the next month or so, month or two, per TxDOT.
35 resurfacing, the project that's going on right now with the resurfacing, if you've
driven 35 at night, you may have been involved in some of the traffic lane closures.
Right now all that's left on the outside is some restriping and race pavement markers,
so it should be done within the next two weeks.
And that's it as far as the report, but I'll take any questions that you have.
Yeah, first of all, welcome, thanks for filling in and talking with us today.
So a question about the two kind of new projects that we're seeing for the first time today.
Bonnie Bray, segment seven.
This might be a more appropriate question for our staff.
You know, I'm seeing a stub out to the north of 288.
Is the alignment of Bonnie Bray north of 288 going to change as part of this?
My understanding, based on the conversations that we've had with TxDOT, is that's just
a graphical representation north of loop 288 showing that there will be some sort of future
connection in that vicinity, but that alignment has not been finalized.
These are drawings that were prepared several years ago to show that connection between
77 and loop 288, so no, that has not been defined at this time.
Okay, so and we haven't like acquired any kind of right of way like between north Bonnie
Bray, like south of Elm and like Ganser or anything like that.
There has not been any acquisition of property and actually this is a project that the county
and TxDOT are leading.
The city's project will end at 77.
This project will be from 77 to loop 288, will be a part of the loop 288 frontage road
project and the county is leading that effort through Pacheco Coke and then Nelson Underwood
at TxDOT.
And of course we'll be in those conversations.
We've also had multiple conversations with UNT as this cuts through their Discovery Park
property and we do have, as Barry mentioned, a kickoff next week to talk a lot about the
loop 288 frontage roads and I'm sure this also will come up as a part of those conversations
since that's being added to that design.
Okay, cool.
This is very early in the process on that project.
Okay.
And then on the outer loop, I'm kind of, you know, as I do like some Googling, when I look
at outer loop, this image is pretty much more or less what I see.
The word loop would imply to me that it's bigger than that.
Do you have anything to show us as far as like long-term plans for alignment around
the DFW area?
I don't write today, but this is, as you said, it's part of a larger project on the outer
loop that covers Kauffman County, Rockwall County, Collin County, who is developing their
own outer loop and this will, the Denton will tie into theirs at D&T.
Okay.
And Councilmember Aguilar, I would just add that the reason why I ask ITS to put this
as a part of the report is specifically because we have a lot of development projects and
then also water and wastewater utility relocations.
You probably remember the large development of the lift station and the $8 million agreement.
So because of the location and where the tie-in's going to be in concert with I-35 and the projects
that we have going on in that area to move utilities or install new utilities, I thought
it'd be good to go ahead and kind of get it on the radar.
It's also shown on our mobility plan.
But it's not a project that the city's actually leading, it's something that's working through
the county.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I figured, I'm just kind of, I'm curious as to how this will impact our connectivity
to the rest of the DFW area.
Kauffman, Rockwall, and Denton County are basically all starting at the same time.
All the kickoffs have been within the last two months.
Okay.
It's also on the regional plan that COG has, that we've seen as part of the STAC and RTC
presentations for their 2045 mobility plan.
And if you look on those graphics, and I'm happy to share those with you, you will see
this entire alignment all the way across those counties, providing kind of a further north
and easterly connection.
So it's kind of taking 635 and going out an additional, so many miles, and I don't know
the distance, but it is that next connection, kind of drawing that circle around the city.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I can look it up.
I don't need you to give it to me.
It's fine.
Okay.
The alignments are all still, there's actually two public meetings that are being scheduled
for Kauffman and Rockwall in November.
And then I'm assuming the one for Denton County will be a few months probably after that.
I guess I had a couple of questions.
You said that there, explain to me about the letter, you said the letters on this loop
288 West.
Over the right of entries.
Yeah.
And right, that other one with the lime green.
I think that's what I was looking at when this question came to mind, you had noted
that you all had communicated with residents and getting the right of entry letters.
Yes.
This project has been around since I was an engineering assistant at the area office.
And I think that may be a little bit to do with some of the non-response of the property
owners there because this project has been talked about for a number of years, but they
are going back and trying to get some more follow up to get those done.
So we can get in there, the tech stock can get in there and get the geotech information
completed.
That's really the key first step in survey.
Okay.
So the question becomes, what happens if you all don't hear from those people at some point
along the way?
What's your timeline on that?
How do you resolve something like this?
I'm speaking from my experience in the past.
Okay.
If there's 19 here, you're going to get all but two or three within the next few months
to four to six months, you'll have those secured.
There may be a few holdouts and those will be dealt with along the way up to the right
of way acquisition process.
Is that something called eminent domain?
Is that when that kicks in?
There's several levels to it.
But the first is you make contact with the property owners and supply fair offers and
they have time to respond, but yes, it's all part of the state right away process.
And so when you all make an offer for property and you made the offer like 15 years ago,
and I don't know if...
There is a timeline.
Yeah.
And so I was just wondering about that if somebody wanted my property and they came
and asked for a future project and they asked me 10 years ago and sent a letter to say...
So how quickly, I mean, what's the timeline between sending a letter and a project actually?
I don't want to confuse this with the right of way process.
This is for right of entry to gain initial studies.
Oh, okay.
The actual right of way maps will have been developed for the parcels, but that's ongoing
and offers will be made in the future.
So the property owner has to be offered fair market value.
Oh, at the time?
At the time, yes.
And so does that state, does that amount change with the years, let's say 10 years ago was
not valued at the same?
It could, but there's been no, to my understanding, no offers that have been made previously.
So that's all coming up in the future.
That's coming up.
Okay.
It sounded to me like...
The schematic has been developed and the process has been developed through a number of years.
Okay.
So I'm particularly interested, I'm always interested in the Mayhill 35 project.
Let's get down here.
Yeah, and you kind of, I was trying to process that.
Here we go.
There it is.
I'm always interested in that one.
And again, tell me how far along we are on that one.
I know that the property has been purchased.
What happens next?
What's going on there again?
As far as the utility, the right of way is nearly complete.
There are two parcels that are left in the eminent domain process, the 42 are in position.
So now it moves to the utility relocation process.
This is the one I think I mentioned the city is working on.
Their permits are approved for water and sewer as well as DME, but they have a utility agreements
that need to be worked out to get started and the city will contract.
Look for contractors within the next few months.
And my last thing is I don't have a question, but I have a comment.
Just driving on I-35 coming into Denton, I know that the roads have been overlaid.
I think that's the correct term.
I'm always having a problem looking for the lines in the road.
All the way just from Louisville, I mean, it's just even coming from Dallas, but I particularly
notice when we get to Louisville, but on up in through to Denton, there are a lot of spaces
out there on that highway where there's just no lines.
And it seems to me that there are enough vehicle collisions between Corinth or 407 working
its way up to Denton, particularly around the Mayhill, Corinth post oak area.
There's always just a collision somewhere in there.
Why are there so many collisions that a lay person like me are beginning to observe?
And I think it's because there's no lines in the road, that's where I'm going.
As far as the pavement markings and the striping, that's something that, you know, I was an
area engineer I dealt with, and it's a constant battle.
I know in the Dallas district, every year there are contracts to come through and restripe
and put new pavement markings down once a year.
The good thing is, with the new surface through town, through the majority of town, that striping
will be complete.
You've got two lanes striped, the outside lane and the outside stripe will be done within
the next few weeks.
As far as a little farther down south, that project was under construction for a number
of years, but I know that it's been restriping.
And in fact, I know that TechStot recently, as an interim measure, had done some striping,
some temporary striping, to address that issue.
So you all restripe every year?
TechStot restripes every year with contracts.
To me, it just don't seem like it, because that's one of my biggest, I fuss about that
as I'm driving, that there are no lines in the road, where's the lane we're supposed
to be in?
That's me fussing in my car.
You know, as well as getting the contracts, you have to get the stripers in there to get
the work done, and to some degree, you're on their schedule to some degree, and they're
all over the Metroplex.
There's a limited number of striping companies to stay in business, and it is a challenge
sometimes to get them up there, but I know TechStot, from my experience, you just stay
on them until you get your job done.
Well, those were all the questions that I had, but I thought I'd just throw that striping
situation into there, because I know we're supposed to stay on task with what we have
before us.
But, you know, I just needed to have some type of answer as to what my personal frustration
is.
Thank you for allowing me that.
Did you have any more questions?
I was just wondering, and if you're not the person to talk to about this, then go ahead
and tell me, and I can have a different conversation with, you know, maybe next month with John
or something.
But, you know, last night we had a work session on our citywide speed study, and I'm curious
about what TechStot's role in the approval of those recommendations is.
I know that we need approval from the Dallas district.
What's the procedure?
What does the road forward look like on that?
What's the next thing?
Yeah, it's a very substantial process that takes quite a bit of time.
We've submitted the overall results that Nathan has done.
We submitted a copy of the report, the presentation, you know, all of the charts, specifically
related to speeds on those TechStot roadways.
We have a follow-up discussion we'll be having with TechStot within the next couple of weeks
at our regular scheduled monthly meeting to talk about that process, but Travis will
look at it locally, and then it will go to the Dallas district office.
They'll do a review of the entire process.
And my goal with the future conversation, and I'm happy for us to bring this back at
the next mobility committee meeting, is to set those timelines of is this six months,
is it eight months, is it two weeks?
But we expect, and Nathan, feel free to chime in if you have anything additional, but we
expect for it to take a substantial amount of time, you know, six to eight months, and
I think then the other part of that will be is there will be some conversation back and
forth based on the recommendations.
So I want to put a pin in that.
We just shared that information with them this week since we shared the information
with you also, and, you know, mentioned to them that we would give them any follow-up
that we received from council, and part of that goal is setting up that overall timeframe,
and Barry's aware he used to be the local Denton area engineer, and has worked as the
Collin County area engineer, and so it does take a substantial amount of time, so if you
want to talk to anything specific to, you know, we're estimating six to eight months.
I think that's a good estimate on the timeline.
What Becky said was totally correct, and just with the ending, the final thing that's needed
from the city will be ordinances for those speed limits, and then they'll be able to
get posted at the final approval.
And the ordinances that we plan to bring back in the very near future after we finish all
of our conversations will be specific to, if so, choose residential streets, and then
the other roadways that are not TxDOT roadways, and a separate ordinance for school zones.
At such time that we make those conversations with TxDOT, those agreements, then we will
have to bring back an update or a separate ordinance, including those TxDOT roadways.
Our anticipation is we would be bringing back an update to the ordinance that was approved.
I think Nathan talked a little bit about this yesterday.
There is school zone and city roadway and university roadway and TxDOT roadway all kind
of blended in the ordinance.
So we're working to clean that up, and Nathan has a huge effort going on to have the school
zone ordinance be within the right areas of the code versus the residential street, you
know, city roadways, TxDOT roadways, et cetera, some of those universities be in a separate
ordinance, and those will come forward at a later date.
The TxDOT will just be delayed after those conversations have been had, and please feel
free to add.
Yeah, so Nathan George with Capital Projects Engineering.
So one important caveat, I touched on this at a very high level last night, but you probably
missed it because it's such a footnote.
So traditionally, if a city is to wish to adjust speed limits in the city, they would
submit that request to TxDOT, and TxDOT would perform the evaluation.
City of Denton has taken a more proactive approach that we have studied those streets
and provided the recommendations to TxDOT for their concurrence.
So we don't know exactly what the timing will be for that review, but we have, you know,
instead of going to TxDOT with just a request that's a very broad, you know, you need to
go collect the data and you need to perform the evaluation, we've done all of those steps,
so now they're reviewing for concurrence.
We don't know if they may want to take some additional surveys to validate what they believe
are 85th percentile speeds.
There are some differences in methodology based on the contract we have set up for traffic
data collection.
So, you know, the approach that we've taken is a little bit different, and they may wish
to perform some spot surveys to validate the data that we presented to them.
They may have some questions about the methodology that we applied, which is a little bit different
than how they perform their studies and document.
It's a different approach, but the hope is that by sharing all of our data, we've shared
the analysis, we've shared the calculations, we've shared all of raw data, so hopefully
they have all the information they need to, you know, perform sort of their independent
review of our recommendations.
If they feel needed, go out and take some additional data collection or whatever else
they might want to do to validate the recommendations that we've made.
And most importantly, as I highlighted last night, getting them a lot of data about the
crash outcomes is really important for those recommendations where we saw higher crash
rates and could make, you know, more specific recommendations about where we need to slow
folks down to try and start to curb that high incident corridors.
And then, you know, all of us will have to take a closer look at those areas to see how
we can start to address the crash trend, because that's more than just an issue of speed.
It's also an issue of road design.
Thank you for that clarification, and I had not quite understood that point about us using
kind of a different procedure than is typical, and I'm glad to hear that we're approaching
it that way.
Great.
Thank you.
Thanks.
And the only thing that I would just add is that our point of contact will be the local
area engineer, which is Travis Campbell, that you've met, and Nathan has been providing
all of that information that we've been sharing with Travis, so we will go through the local
area office, although it will be sent to another division within the Dallas district that's
located in South Dallas and Mesquite.
So, Travis will be our liaison.
Travis is really the liaison.
If there's not any other communication on that point, we will go to MC 22-028, staff
report, introduction, Bonnie Brace Street update, Three Creek Road, phase three, Ryan
Road update, 2022 bond package, future items for mobility committee meeting for 2022.
All righty, well, good morning.
So we have a couple of items today on the agenda.
The first thing I'd like to do is introduce our new senior transportation engineer, Ismael
Bala.
Ismael, if you'd like to stand up, yes, and we'll have you come forward, maybe tell a
little bit about yourself and where you come from, and he just started on the 19th, so
he's on week two, so be kind.
But we're really glad to have him, so I'm going to turn it over just for a couple seconds
for him to talk about his background, and then we'll move on.
All right.
Good morning, I think.
Hello.
I'm Ismael Bala, the new senior transportation engineer for City of Denton, and really excited
to be here, and I hope I can do my best.
Anything else?
A little bit about your background.
Sure.
I got my PhD in transportation engineering from UT El Paso, and right away started working
like for six years, four years in Caltrans, California Department of Transportation.
I moved from Los Angeles to Dallas a few weeks ago.
Well, welcome.
Thank you.
All those California people.
I know.
I didn't want to mention that, but that's why I said like anything else, and Becky said
like, "Keep it going."
Thank you.
That was very nice to meet you.
Good to meet you.
Thank you, sir.
Yeah, we keep getting additional folks from other states all on our team, but we'll take
them, right?
I think we will.
So super excited to have him on the team.
To help us grow.
It's a very exciting move, and we're very pleased.
Brett's done a great job with working through this hiring.
I know you know it's been almost a year since we've had a transportation engineer, and so
we're real excited to have him as a part of the team, and he is going to work hand-in-hand
with our transportation planning group that Pretem Deschmec is leading, and then also
I would explain that, you know, there are a lot of things that we've had certain individuals
on staff covering, and there are some other changes in our department with hiring a drainage
engineer and that individual who's been doing some multiple roles is now going to be able
to shed some of that load, and we're going to have some of those conversations very soon.
So lots of things that are happening and going on in the department which are really positive,
and so we're super excited, so welcome to Texas.
So then let's kind of go through some of our updates.
So what I will tell you on the Bonnie Bray Street update, next Mobility Committee meeting
I will be bringing forward a presentation specifically.
This will not be a part of a staff report.
We're going to do its own agenda item, give you an update of the entire project, all of
the phases, and talk specifically about some recent questions that we've been asked and
some recent ideas on some of the different phases of Bonnie Bray.
I'm going to touch on it twice today, so we're going to talk about it in this update, then
we'll talk about it during the Denton County portion, but just wanted to let you know we
will have a more specific, as you've probably seen on your work session agenda, we have
that currently scheduled for the 18th, we're going to move that out to November so that
we can bring that update to you first, and then bring it to council a second.
So we'll work through that.
So the temporary surface restoration on Bonnie Bray between I-35 and Scripture, that was
all associated with that large water main, I know that we're all happy to having the
ground that's completed, the asphalt improvements have been continuing all the drive conditions,
remember this is a temporary surface we put down to help with those driving until we can
get that overall Bonnie Bray project.
As you know, it's a part of the Denton County trip 2022 bond election.
If the bond election so passes, then we will have the funding needed to anticipate that
start of construction in 2024, and really working through finalizing that design and
working through that construction.
There's a few punch list items we're working through on that temporary pavement that was
installed, but definitely, you know, don't anticipate any additional full length closures.
I know UNT has been very pleased.
We've heard comments from the PD, I know Tex thought is happy that we're finished with
completion in that area, so super excited about having that done.
Bonnie Bray phase three has been advertised for bid, so that's fantastic.
It's anticipated to be under construction by the end of the year, and then of course
phase six, which is that section from US 380 to 77.
It's on track for advertising, pending the completion of that right away acquisition.
I think we've talked about this before, we have one property that we're working to finalize
that acquisition.
Our timeline is subject to that acquisition, so what we're currently looking at, because
of the funding that's associated with the project, we cannot bid the project without
having all of that acquisition completed.
So when we bring it forward to you next month, we'll talk about our plan.
We've also talked about should this be broken down to different sections so that we can
go ahead and start the construction.
At this point, we have one that's lacking, and so we're hoping, we're working in really
good terms with trying to get that settled so we can move forward with having that last
property acquired.
Hickory Creek Road phase three, of course that's the portion from River Pass to 1830.
It's currently in the process of having those utility relocations completed.
We have one parcel that's still being acquired through that eminent domain process.
We're hoping it will close at the end of the month, not this month, end of October.
This was awarded to Mario Sinicola and Sons.
It has a two-year construction time plane.
We put this in the Friday report recently because we had some questions about access
to individuals' homes, and so there were some graphics that showed where the future
roadway is going to go in comparison to where the existing roadway and those access pieces.
But Mario Sinicola is working to get started.
They were supposed to be starting this week, and we're working through all their submittal
review.
There's a substantial amount of submittals to review on this bridge.
And then finally, let's see.
As far as roadway updates, the Ryan Road project was brought to 30% design and placed on hold.
That was finished, will be finished.
We are anticipating using the CMAR process.
That's what we're using on several of the bond projects currently.
I know you know this.
We're just reminding everyone.
We've put that project on hold until we get to a point with Hickory Creek 3 that we feel
like it's very close to construction so that as soon as that construction is completed,
Ryan Road can start its construction.
It's also a project we submitted for that Denton County Trip bond application.
And we want to make sure that because it's another east-west connectivity piece that
we don't have both of those roads under construction at the same time.
And then as far as the overall Trip 2022 projects, I know you've seen this in a previous Friday
report.
We just talked about Ryan from 2181 to 1830.
We did submit to the county bond on that project.
Phase 4B, which is from 35 to Scripture and then 5, which is from Scripture to 380.
We just talked a little bit about that.
Those also were submitted as a part of that bond election package.
And then the Westgate Windsor Drive Bronco Way, we also submitted that project.
We're working on some temporary measures to make connectivity to existing Bronco Way and
Westgate to help improve traffic flow in that area.
But this full project that needs to be constructed in this area has been submitted for that gap
in funding as a part of the trip.
And then, of course, there's been several meetings that have been held.
But what I wanted to call to your attention is on August 16th, and John's obviously not
here today, but he did present to the county an updated list of projects.
That updated list of projects did include Elm to Locust from basically the courthouse
to 380.
So really excited about having that.
That's about a $650 million bond election that the county is moving forward with for
all the cities within the county.
And that election is on November 8th.
And that is what I have for you today as far as the overall staff update.
I wanted to bring forward the future staff agenda items.
Obviously, we are going to continue to do the Bonnie Bray Street update.
The only thing that I would add is instead of it being, I think I mentioned this is a
part of the staff report, we're going to have a separate presentation on that.
The citywide speed study update, we gave you the presentation last night.
It's already scheduled for council on the 25th of October as that follow-up.
And so I think one of the things that I'd like to say on the next update that we do
is that we bring forward the communication we have with TxDOT on the possible timing
of when and how long we anticipate so that we put some parameters around when we expect
to have that feedback from TxDOT.
And we can add that as a part of the report.
So Nathan will make sure that we get that taken care of.
And then the Hickory Creek 3 and Bryan Road, and then of course the Bonnie Bray, we've
made those updates, I'm sorry, the bond election, we've made those updates to you today.
So with that, I know these are kind of ongoing updates.
I don't know that there's any that need to fall off.
I don't know that there's going to be a whole lot to tell you on the bond election besides
it's November 8th.
But I would tell you that we'll continuously bring any updates on Ryan Road.
I think the ones you'll receive the most information on over the next several months are Bonnie
Bray, like I mentioned, the citywide speed study, and then of course the construction
with Hickory Creek Road.
At some point when they're actually starting to do some heavy construction, we'll want
to add some pictures and be able to show you kind of what it's looking like out there.
But that's all we have.
So I guess at this time, I'll just take any additional items or questions that you might
have that you'd like to see added to the agenda.
May I, Chair, I think that, you know, taking this citywide speed study off of our monthly
report is fine.
I definitely would love to continue to get updates about, you know, I mean, an update
might not come for another six months or more, but, you know, just keep us updated on the
process with TxDOT.
And then, you know, do we want the conversation around residential speed limits to be to kind
of take the place of that, I guess, since it seemed to me in our work session yesterday
afternoon that that was kind of the next step.
Do you think that that's appropriate?
You know, I know that the residential speeds will be something that's going to be the main
focus of the next topic with council, being that the same individuals that are a part
of this committee or the same individuals that are a part of council, you know, it may
not make sense to bring it back to mobility committee, but I'll use your discretion as
to what you'd like to see.
I do know that now that we've changed the schedule, I believe the next time we have
mobility committee will be following the update we've already made to council.
So you would hear it at council before you would hear it here.
So logistically.
Yeah, I'll defer to your discretion that I mean, if it's if I think that is a conversation
we need to have as the full council and there's no point to have and having it twice.
That's fair.
That can kind of come off that way and come off here.
Sure, we will have it come off.
The only thing that we will work to make sure that we have is just a really quick update
is our conversation with text on their timing.
And it'll be more of an update that, yes, we had that conversation and we know kind
of the parameters of what their anticipation is, what their schedule and at least that
you're aware and I know that that'll also be something that we can bring is just kind
of a follow up.
The next conversation with council will be specifically on residential streets, but we
can include as a part of that presentation, just the follow up we received from text out
as a timeline.
I think that will be helpful to all of us.
That works.
Anything else?
I'd love to follow up a little bit on the Hickory Creek Road conversation, you know,
I know that you're aware of the questions and concerns that we've been getting both,
I guess maybe we should talk about two separate issues, the median break at Livingston Drive
and then the possibility of like interim safety improvements, you know, for the next two years
until Hickory Creek Phase 3 is completed.
What does the process look like for evaluating whether a median break is possible or feasible
at Livingston?
The median break at Livingston has been brought to our attention and we are already working
through adding the median, so we're currently working on the, with the contractor, a change
order to add that to that project and working on the funding that's associated with that.
So after that was brought to our attention, it wasn't something that I was aware of or
staff was aware of.
We worked through that evaluation and understand the concerns and I know you're aware there
were several individuals that were actually going to speak on that topic at the last council
meeting but we were able to make them aware of the fact that we were able to work through
that issue and so at this point it is in the process of being added to that project and
looking for the funding associated with that to be added.
So I'm hoping that, from my perspective, that issue has been resolved.
As far as the connectivity, I think where you're going with your second question with
1830 and existing Hickory Creek Road, that's a text dot roadway.
Text dot does not have any plans at this time to install any type of signal or any work
at all.
FM 1830 is not even, or Country Club Road is not even a road that's a part of their overall
what they call sandbox, which is the list of projects that they anticipate having completed
in any future timeframe and so currently there are no plans that we're aware of to make any
improvements in that area.
Is there any kind of procedure for requesting a three-way stop sign at an intersection?
As far as that intersection goes, we can bring that up to text dot's attention that we've
received the request and talk through that with them, but at this time we're not aware
of any type of three-way stop, signalization, anything at that intersection.
And I know you've seen as when the future roadway is constructed, that will no longer
even be that connection, but happy to add that to our agenda to discuss with text dot
to see if they have any improvement measures that they can recommend in that area, but
because it is their roadway, we would have to coordinate with them.
We're only one of the three spokes.
Right.
Okay, and we are, I think I recall from last night that we are requesting a reduction in
the speed limit on Country Club Road though, which will certainly help to address those
concerns.
I don't have that memorized.
I'm pretty sure, I feel like I wrote down like, oh good, that road segment we're requesting
that.
Country Club Road near Hickory Creek, yes, Nathan is saying yes, so that's been submitted
to text dot.
Yeah, from 50 to 45, or we're requesting that it go from 50.
Right.
Okay, great, thank you so much.
Absolutely.
I have a couple of questions here.
Roundabouts, I've been hearing some chatter about more roundabouts in the city.
Can you give me just a bit of information on how is that coming?
How did that come about?
And if that's something that we can look forward to in the city, more roundabouts?
What I would tell you is, is roundabouts are used as intersection control, just like a
traffic signal is used.
They are evaluated on certain projects as whether or not they make sense from a design
perspective, and those are things that our consultants can bring to our attention.
The most recent conversation in regards to roundabouts that has been brought to my attention
is the pitch we received last night, and those are all text dot roadways, so we'll be working
with text dot on that conversation.
None of those roadways are city of Denton roadways that we have the authority to make
those determinations over, that we'll bring that up, but in general, we currently do not
have roadways that are designed to include roundabouts on any of the projects that we
have underway.
I will tell you, there are some previous schematics that show roundabouts in some of the areas
along Bonnie Bray sections that haven't been improved, and so as a part of the conversation
and a part of the design process, specifically on those phase four, B, and five, those will
be things that are evaluated.
As you know, there's already a roundabout at scripture, so I'm not aware of any additional,
like I said, besides the one that was mentioned last night, nothing else is coming to my head.
Also, for educational purposes, how does a roadway end up on the schematics for the bond?
As a city council member, I'll get a call from someone that lives on Spencer Road that
now has an apartment complex on it, as well as a senior living, as well as Lowe's and
an exit for Walmart, and a road that's two lanes.
Now I'm getting questioned as to why didn't they do this before they knew all this was
happening?
I know people don't understand that the business has to come in first and then the road has
to meet the expectation of the development.
A road like Spencer Road or a road like McKinney, East McKinney, Audra, those kind of steel
two lane roads where we are now getting the development on, how does a road get attention?
Sure.
Couple of things.
There's different levels of classifications of roadways and different ways roadways go
through the bond package.
As far as a residential roadway, there's many factors that go into those roadways, such
as the overall condition index.
We work with Danny and his team to evaluate the overall condition index, look to see if
there's any water or wastewater utilities that need to be done in those areas, too.
Those are typically some of those bond packages you see, just like the one that started in
Sedna.
Maybe some of the modifications that you're seeing is that we're adding more pieces to
the puzzle.
We're adding the franchise utilities, the street light, the sidewalk, and minimal drainage
improvements if needed.
That's a different thing.
Some of the roadways you're talking about are higher classifications of roadways.
When they go through the development process, it's a part of the transportation planning's
team to evaluate that.
They perform traffic impact analysis, the developer does, that actually show we're going
to add this many cars to this road in this area with this many trips.
An evaluation is done as to are there some of the areas of those roadways that the developer
is responsible for improving, such as a side road or the road that goes across the front
of their road, is there a right turn lane that needs to be added.
It's a part of the development review process for the specific developments.
As far as a major roadway like Bonnie Bray, keep in mind McKinney Street was all Textot
up until just a few years ago when the city took that road over from Textot.
Those types of roadways when we're developing our five-year CIP, which we're about to start
kicking off within the next month or so with collaboration with the finance department,
as we're working through those, we're looking at where have we seen a lot of growth, where
do we hear a lot of traffic congestion complaints or concerns, what does the overall mobility
plan show and where are some of those areas that we have to improve.
Many times those are triggered by the Textot roadway improvements.
For example, if Textot is going to do FM 1515, now we have to do some of the utility relocations
in that area.
There may be some additional roadways that connect to that that we may be evaluating.
But typically to come up with major roadways that are a part of a bond package, Bonnie
Bray's, McKinney's, May Hill's, those are things that are evaluated based on looking
at where the demand is, where the growth is, where do we have the traffic congestion, and
what does our overall mobility plan show.
The goal with adopting that mobility plan is coming up with a plan of, okay, these are
the roadways we need to do over the next five years or we need to get started.
And so a lot of that is just analysis of looking at that planning document and then taking
it through initiation, which evaluating what's happening in that area, submitting, coming
up with an estimate of cost, saying these are roadways that make sense or these are
roadways that need to be widened.
The McKinney you gave the example between Audra and the Loop is a great example of a
roadway that we all believe would be much nicer if it was widened.
It would have to be something that we would propose as a future bond project, because
it's multi-million dollars to do all of the utility relocations, the drainage installation,
the right-of-way acquisition, et cetera.
So I tried to break it down into different buckets 'cause it kind of depends on the process,
but there are many roadways that are being improved or at least the roadways that are
a party to developments just simply because of the development improvements that are required.
It just seems like everything, I'm just talking about in my district, everything that's leading
up towards 288 is just the next step to get those ready.
So my question really was, would a road like that end up on a bond package, which I think
that you just answered that question.
Yes, absolutely.
A road like Spencer and I assume you're talking from the Loop to Mayhill, where it's two lane,
we have Lowe's, Rosa's, Walmart, a lot of things connected.
It would be a roadway we would look at from a capacity standpoint, see that based on doing
traffic studies, whether or not the capacity, we're actually counting cars, how many people
are using this, doing a traffic impact analysis, understanding, yes, that's a roadway that
needs to be widened and then making a decision that would be brought before council to say,
here's our recommendation of the roadways that we think should be a part of a bond package.
Here's the overall funding.
Here's the slot of a five year timeframe that we believe these need to be improved.
Do you recommend this or do you not?
So that's kind of how we would walk through that process.
And actually when you do a specific bond, it goes through a very specific bond committee
group of individuals who make those recommendations that then come before council.
So there are a few steps in advance.
Okay.
And this is just a side note, but I had started receiving some, I don't think there were complaints,
but the senior citizen group that live, neighborhood that lives on the road, I was, we started
receiving information from them that now that that apartment complex is over, they couldn't
swerve out of the, onto the street far, you know, they had to make a really tight turn
and that was kind of hard on them.
They were seeing that somebody is going to run over us while we're trying to get out
on the roadway.
But I do travel that road and I can understand what they're saying because it's kind of tight
in there, but that's what triggered me to come back to you all and let you know that,
hey, don't forget this road here, which I knew you wouldn't, but it was just, that was
my little funny part about them squirming in, they don't just, oh, it's so much more
traffic now, council woman, can you have them to come and do something about this road?
So, but they are out there and we just have to make sure that we are keeping in mind that
there are some folks over there that's used to swinging out.
Yeah.
That sounds very dangerous.
I hope they're not swinging out and oncoming traffic, so that would not be a recommendation,
but I will tell you too, in your CIP packet that was prepared this year with collaboration
of all the departments, our department, and then of course, finance, finance did include
in one of the front documents of that booklet, a future bond kind of list of projects that
might be anticipated and we are having internal discussions and that's already listed on a
work session for late December, I believe.
That's just kind of a general, sorry, that's just kind of a general, like, how things are
done kind of a question, so, you know, obviously, as we think about the upcoming county bond
package, there are a lot of projects that the city is collaborating with the county
on that are part of that bond package.
Has that happened in the past?
Is that a new thing for us to collaborate with the county in that way?
I'm not aware of the county putting forward a bond package as substantial as it is now.
Now, as far as collaboration, there are many projects that the city, the county, and tech
set are all in alignment because we all share the same thoroughfare plan, but I'm not aware
of a roadway project specifically.
My understanding is this TRIP overall bond program is the largest bond program the county's
ever put forward.
So when we heard about it and we've been hearing about it for months because we have a very
close relationship with Mr. Polster, obviously, and he represents the county, and so as we've
been hearing about that, we've had a list of projects we've been submitting for over
a year and we've just been getting those well-defined numbers and scopes more well-defined, too.
But I'm not aware, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Just in my timeframe here, I'm not aware of a project that we've done in that fashion.
Now, I will tell you, as you see on some of the projects that Mr. Hurd submitted on and
presented to you today, there are several projects that are county-led projects, but
some of those come from feedback they receive from the surrounding cities, such as the Outer
Loop, such as the frontage roads for Loop 288.
The city works very closely with the county to tell them how important it is that we do
those frontage roads, because currently no developments along that corridor, because
it's what's called a controlled access freeway, because it's 60 miles per hour, can make connection
directly to the frontage road for safety reasons.
So there are projects that we really work with TxDOT or the county to move forward with.
But I'm not aware, I can ask the question, but I will tell you, we worked very hard to
try to make sure with Mr. Polster and with, you know, overall with the county that these
are very important projects for the city.
And we also have those same conversations with COG and talk to them about, you know,
here are some of the mobility challenges the city has in areas where we see the growth
coming where we want to actually widen and add the capacity that's needed.
Well, kudos on that I mean, successful collaboration, because that's, I mean, those projects are
going to make a really huge difference for us.
So great work on that.
Yes.
Thank you very much, ma'am.
We're looking forward to the bond election passing, if it so does.
All righty.
Anything else?
I don't have anything else.
Looks like you're all right.
Thank you very much.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
All righty and we are adjourned.
We have any concluding items or you okay with any I think we've said all we could say.
So I will adjourn this meeting at approximately well, it's ten fifty nine a.m.
There we go.
Thank you.