WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.600 forum. We're going to call this meeting to order at 533 in the afternoon. Welcome everybody. This 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:14.800 is our regularly scheduled historic landmark commission meeting. Let's all rise and say the 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:22.960 Pledge of Allegiance, followed by the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:31.040 States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, 00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:39.680 with liberty and justice for all. Honoring the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, 00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:44.160 one state, under God, one and indivisible. Thank you. 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:56.000 I'm not sure what's going on. It still says this event has not yet started online. Oh really? 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:03.920 So we were having technical difficulties and um... Okay. Should I announce that? Yes, now. 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:11.120 Okay everybody. Can you call Billy? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to call Billy real quick. 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.640 We're going to pause our meeting and go off the record. 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:24.880 We have to connect with SwagIt and they're the ones who record it so that it can be 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:31.760 published tomorrow online and so people can watch it live. And that's a requirement that we have so 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:38.160 we won't be able to hold the meeting if we cannot get it recorded. Hey, 50 bucks for the done hook 00:01:38.160 --> 00:01:50.320 death. I knew it. I knew it. You wanted your evening back, I know. Hey look, I've got steak waiting. 00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:56.560 But I had my salad already. Did you notice those links of this attachment that you emailed to us? 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:02.960 No, I did not. Yes, it's very long. Tell us all about it. Oh, it's on. It's on now? Yeah. 00:02:02.960 --> 00:02:21.680 Oh, okay. Now we bought you back because you kicked us out. Okay, thanks. Okay, sorry. I just 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.920 wanted to make sure because they were going to record it a different way because this room is 00:02:25.920 --> 00:02:32.640 not technically recording today. Now it's that room. Okay, do you want to go back to square one? 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:41.360 To start from? No, okay. Okay, once again, our quorum, we're going to resume where we left off 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:51.440 which is our regularly scheduled meeting agenda. Item for consideration, HLC 22-071. 00:02:51.440 --> 00:03:01.040 Consider approval of the June 13, 2022 minutes. I think everybody got those in an email. 00:03:02.880 --> 00:03:10.080 I wasn't there. I'll make a motion. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor? 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:18.080 Signify by raising your hand. All right, so it's unanimous. Well, one abstention, right? 00:03:19.600 --> 00:03:35.200 Thank you, Mary. Ms. Berry, second? Yes. Yes, because she wasn't here that day. Okay, item B, 00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:46.800 COA 22-0011, hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:53.120 in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development Code to remove the north elevator 00:03:53.120 --> 00:04:01.520 addition and restore/reconstruct the historic north and west elevation of the north facade at 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:09.360 221 North Elm Street, a local historic landmark property and recorded historic Texas landmark. 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:14.400 The site is located on the southwest corner of North Elm Street and West McKinney Street 00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:21.520 and Ms. Robertson, I'll turn it to you. Thank you, Chair. 00:04:21.520 --> 00:04:30.880 This is our City Hall West located at 221 North Elm Street. 00:04:30.880 --> 00:04:37.520 Sorry, I'm going to see if I can carry it. Okay, so the location is the southwest corner of North 00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:42.320 Elm and West McKinney Street, so directly heading south, just south of us right here. 00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:46.480 The owners are the City of Denton. The construction date is circa 1927 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.040 and as stated, it's known as City Hall West as well as the old Denton City Hall. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:57.680 So the building's history is designed by Vance Lake and Woodruff. The architectural style is 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:03.280 Spanish Renaissance style. The defining features are arched windows, tile roof, ornamental stone 00:05:03.280 --> 00:05:09.200 embellishments, kind of that South Texas Mission style influence, and as Chair noted, it's a local 00:05:09.200 --> 00:05:15.760 historic landmark and a recorded Texas historic landmark. So the request is to demolish the non-original 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:21.440 north elevator addition, as you can see right here from the site plan, and reconstruct the historic 00:05:21.440 --> 00:05:26.400 north and west elevations of the north facade, so as you can see here in this old photo. 00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:35.360 This would return the north facade to its original 1927 building footprint. So with that removal, 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:43.520 that would be restored. So this is the current conditions. Whoops, I meant view south from West 00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:51.440 McKinney Street. This is the demolition elevation. So as you can see here, they'd be removing this 00:05:51.440 --> 00:05:57.840 addition right here. This is the drawings here and then as shown on the previous slide, that little 00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:05.120 square right there. This is the proposed elevation. It would include the white brick that you see 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:12.800 elsewhere on the facade. It would be wood and metal clad windows for these new additional windows, 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:16.720 the door, as well as the transom window, which would match the rest of the facade on the building. 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:21.120 It would be that vanilla cream colored window finishing that we currently see. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:28.240 We would get the tile roofing back, as well as that cast stone. So this is the window installation 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:33.040 details. As you can see here, this is the double hung interior, what it would look like, that double 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:41.040 hung exterior, and then these are the different designs. Sorry, we can't really see you on the 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:50.320 monitor. Do you want to try standing on this camera? Is it this one? Yeah. Okay. Hello everyone. 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:59.680 So this did have to go through the Texas Historical Commission review. This letter is dated May 20, 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:04.800 2022. They did not provide any recommendations, but they did have a determination that it did meet 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:09.120 the Secretary of Interior's standards for rehabilitation, therefore waiving the remainder 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:17.680 of the RTHL review period. In staff's analysis, looking at the standards for rehabilitation, 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:24.480 and the reason it's a standards for rehabilitation via restoration is due to the fact that they're 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:30.640 not removing the south addition as well, returning the full original footprint to the building. 00:07:30.640 --> 00:07:36.960 So that's why we're having just a rehabilitation job done. So staff looked specifically at points 00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:42.320 two, three, five, and nine, which we discussed a little bit more in depth in your AIS packet. 00:07:42.320 --> 00:07:48.560 And staff is recommending approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness request to remove 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:53.120 the north elevator addition and restore and reconstruct the historic north and west elevations 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:59.840 of the north facade at City Hall West. Any questions? And we do have the architect here 00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:04.720 who would be working on the project. Question. So is there not going to be an elevator then? 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:09.760 Correct. Correct. So there will not be one? There is an elevator on the south facade, 00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:16.000 or in the south addition, but not the north addition. The north elevator is no longer needed 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:22.000 because a part of the scope will be removing the 1980s infill floors. So that north elevator was 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:28.160 only required to access those infill floors. So it's no longer useful. Okay. But there is still 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.200 an elevator there for it. There is. It's on the south side. Okay. So that might answer my next 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:41.280 question. When was that addition added to the building? I believe 1980. 1981 when they added 00:08:41.280 --> 00:08:48.640 the police station. Yeah. What does the front of the building look like now out of curiosity? 00:08:49.280 --> 00:08:53.920 Did you have a picture of that? It does not look anywhere nearly as pretty as what you showed me 00:08:53.920 --> 00:09:00.960 when you started. All the pretty stuff seemed to be gone. It's very similar. I think the trees 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:07.200 cover up a lot of that now. Yes. Although it's pretty stone and decorative. I don't remember. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.760 Yes. So that's still as it exists. I was going to say maybe I can pull it up. That's all right. 00:09:11.760 --> 00:09:14.880 I just wonder. I don't remember seeing it. It's fine. If you say it's there, I believe you. 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:19.360 I drive by, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong side of it and just. 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:26.320 If it helps, Mary. Here's the current picture. I think. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:36.800 That looks so much more attractive. It's the angle. The shot. Probably. Yes, the shot. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:48.800 Thank you. Sure. In our packet, there was a picture of it looked like trim of like a column 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.240 that maybe is being repaired or something. I wondered where that the ticker was. 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:02.000 Are you discussing the I think it's the balustrade or maybe that one's in it. 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:27.440 It might've been on that. Some of that. And then I think there was another one. So there, 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:34.720 I think in addition, they said they're restoring that as well. Yes, they were repairing those. 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:43.280 Yes. That's pretty serious. So do we know what the ultimate use of this building will be in the end? 00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:52.960 Or can we not say. I wouldn't let. I think it's currently going under a master plan phase and where 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:59.040 we're asking the community what the best use for the building is. So that was planning zoning, 00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:04.720 which is down here, right? So planning and zoning has been in a couple of locations, but yes, 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:09.120 playing and zoning was there for several years from my understanding. I've heard all kinds of 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:16.400 Reservation officer was there too. Yes. Yes. Occupied in 2016. I guess I've heard a lot 00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:21.120 of different uses for it. There seems to be a little jockey for what it should be good for. 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:27.280 Okay. Any other questions? 00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:33.760 Where is the discussion about what it's going to be? I've missed this. I know I've been out of 00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:41.440 town. So the discussion has been, uh, we've had several community meetings. There's a community 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:47.920 survey that I know was just recently reposted on social media through the city. Those of us 00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:51.840 don't Facebook because we just don't want that. Is there any other place we might see this? 00:11:51.840 --> 00:12:00.880 Those surveys, right? Um, I, I do not believe it's being offered elsewhere. I know it's been 00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:08.880 emailed to, to email groups. Um, but that's been handled by the city of Denton communication. 00:12:08.880 --> 00:12:12.720 That seems to me a bad communication plan. Some of us just don't believe in Facebook. 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.360 I don't like supporting the person that owns it. 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:23.840 I think we're a little off topic, but, uh, I'd be, I'm more than happy to share that survey with you, 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:27.760 Mary. Um, I'm more than happy to share that with all the commissioners, just to make sure 00:12:27.760 --> 00:12:30.960 that you all have it. I don't have Facebook either, so I'm not offended. 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:40.320 Okay. Any other questions? All right. Hearing none. Um, in order to go forward with this, 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:46.640 we'll need a motion. They're the normal four. Um, if you'd like me to go through those, I will. 00:12:46.640 --> 00:12:51.360 Um, but I'll entertain a motion. I move that we approve a seat. What is it? 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:57.920 Co a two, two dash zero zero one for a certificate of appropriateness to reconstruct the Northwest 00:12:57.920 --> 00:13:05.360 elevation of the facade on Denton, uh, see almost zero zero one one, one one. Oh, I just wanted to 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:10.720 start. Thank you. Okay. So your motion is to prove that submitted. Yes. Do we have a second? 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:16.960 Second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Um, I'll just throw the floor open for discussion. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:26.240 Quiet bunch today. They seem to have gone out all out on the plane. Don't know. It seems pretty 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.000 a lot better than the last windows. I saw her this building come through. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:38.400 Okay. Hearing no other discussion. Um, we'll call the vote. All those in favor signify by raising 00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:44.160 your right hand. All right. This one is unanimous. It passes. Thank you. 00:13:50.560 --> 00:13:54.480 Okay. Next up on our agenda. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:14:00.480 Well, first of all, that concludes the public part of our meeting. 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:11.520 Well, she's more than welcome this day. Um, so now we enter item three, 00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:14.960 which is the work session and we'll pause for just a minute. 00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:19.920 Okay. 00:14:19.920 --> 00:14:36.960 No, I just want to make sure that she knew to accept another email for me. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:45.600 Okay. So we'll unpause ourselves. Um, this is just work session, uh, agenda item three, 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:52.640 a HLC 22 dash zero zero six nine, hold the discussion regarding the goals policies 00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:59.120 and recommendations to achieve the vision and value statements of the didn't sort preservation 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:07.200 plan. Mr. Robertson. Okay. So there's a lot of information, but I'm going to summarize as best 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.920 as I can so that no one falls asleep while I'm presenting. Um, but so I just thought it'd be good 00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:18.160 to do a general overview. Since we have some new commissioners, we hadn't covered this. I thought 00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:22.400 it'd be good to do a general overview of the debt and preservation, historic preservation plan, kind 00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:28.320 of run through the goals, visions, the values of how we got there and kind of that implementation 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:34.880 process. So table of contents. First, we'll be covering the why that I'll be going into vision 00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:40.320 statement, value statements, um, an overview of the goals, policy and recommendations cause it's 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:47.520 pretty heavy and then kind of that implementation as I stated. So the why, so first we have it 00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:53.840 mentioned in the DDC section 2.3.6 C which does state that the historic landmark commission does 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:59.840 have review authority over the city's historic preservation plan. We also have a lot of community 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:05.120 feedback and benefits to this historic preservation plan. As you can see here, we have comments as we 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:09.200 need to preserve and interpret all histories and cultures in Denton. We need to help homeowners 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:14.560 and maintain their properties and prevent the demolition of landmarks. Um, you know, preservation, 00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:21.360 a lot of people state it's really good to have that mixed use sense of commercial and residential. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:26.000 It provides unique environments in terms of the built environment. Um, it can create new jobs when 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.480 you're rehabbing historic buildings. It can provide also new housing choices as well. 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:36.480 And you also have that kind of economic benefits as well as arts and cultural and 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:43.440 enhancing property values. So looking now at the economic benefits. So this is kind of a wide range 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:49.840 of preservation in general, but 2.26 billion in annual visitor spending is related to historic 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:57.200 based tourism. That's huge. That's a great benefit right there. Then 772 million in historic building 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:03.200 rehabilitation projects. Then we have, you know, four to five million dollars invested by the 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:09.120 federal state of Texas initiative programs. And then that 310 million per year in Texas, 00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:16.000 GDP and main street revitalization. So then our downtown Denton district. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:24.000 So moving on to the vision statement, I summarize this as a very large paragraph, 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:30.160 but I kind of broke it down highlighting, um, underlying those, you know, pieces that are of 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:36.000 importance, I feel like to you all as a commission. So historic preservation has and continues to play 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:42.720 a vital role in a revitalized downtown courthouse square district preservation and conservation of 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.600 Denton central and mid century neighborhoods provide opportunities for those walkable places 00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:53.440 with authenticity and character preservation contributes to the dentist's distinctiveness 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:58.240 and visual qualities preserve buildings and places. Tell the story of Denton 00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:04.880 ongoing educational programs and outreach efforts help to tell these stories in innovative ways, 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.880 inspiring a new generation of Denton preservation leaders and advocates. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.800 And then lastly, important impact on Denton's economy, neighborhood, 00:18:12.800 --> 00:18:21.440 cohesiveness and long-term sustainability. Any questions before I move on? I know this is a lot. 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.840 So moving on to value statements. So in our preservation plan, we have six value statements. 00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:34.560 The first one is historic building and resources define Denton's image and identity. 00:18:34.560 --> 00:18:40.160 From there, we have our statement number two, which heritage resources are vital elements to 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.800 maintaining a prosperous downtown Denton. You'll hear downtown Denton because that's kind of where 00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:51.200 the hub of most of our historic buildings are and where they kind of, um, you know, spread out from 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.840 there and branch out. Then we have our statement number three, which is preservation enhances 00:18:55.840 --> 00:19:01.600 residential neighborhoods. Historic buildings are visible reminders of Denton's history and time 00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:06.240 past, which is our statement number four. Statement number five states that a strong 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.880 and effective local historic preservation program requires collaborative efforts between 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.520 many different preservation partners. So Denton County, historic Denton, 00:19:17.360 --> 00:19:21.920 the different commissions within our Denton County. And then we have our statement number six, 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.560 which is preservation efforts in Denton recognize all groups and populations that have contributed 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:37.120 to Denton's built environment. Any questions? Okay. So goals, policy and recommendations. 00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:45.200 So there are four goals. So we're basically working our way up down from the vision to the values to 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:51.280 our goals. So our goals, we have four goals. The first one is document inventory and preserve 00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:57.040 Denton's significant historic cultural and architectural resources. From there it's promote 00:19:57.040 --> 00:20:03.200 the preservation, adaptive use and stewardship of historic resources as integral elements to 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.720 a vibrant and sustainable downtown Denton and residential neighborhoods. Goal number three is 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:14.240 to maintain a well-managed integrated municipal historic preservation program that facilitates 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:20.000 local preservation activity. And lastly, goal number four is to increase the awareness of historic 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:25.200 preservation benefits through ongoing outreach and educational activities, youth engagement and 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:33.840 other programming activities. So we're going to be focusing specifically on the areas highlighted 00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:39.120 in red. I want to show you all how much there is incorporated into this preservation plan. 00:20:39.120 --> 00:20:45.280 And I know that I believe Mary and Roy and Angie, as commissioners, all helped implement this back 00:20:45.280 --> 00:20:52.000 in 2019. And I know this was a huge effort, so I appreciate it. But our first goal that we're 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.160 looking at, we're looking at a total of five policies that make up that goal number one 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:02.240 with along with 12 recommendations. But the part where historical landmark commission is always 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:06.880 mentioned are these kind of these different recommendation areas. So the first one is 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:13.440 recommendation 1.5, which is to support national register of historic places listings for eligible 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:21.200 neighborhoods and existing local historic districts. So that's kind of where we've had surveys done in 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:27.040 the past where we're looking to do national register historic districts or landmarks is 00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:30.880 trying to get those implemented, really selling that to the community and saying, these are your 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:36.160 benefits that come from getting this national register status. This only benefits you. It doesn't 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:43.760 hurt you. The next is to recommendation number 1.6, which is explore potential boundary expansion 00:21:43.760 --> 00:21:49.600 of the Oak Hickory local historic district south of Hickory Street. I think since my time here, 00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:53.440 there's been a little bit of chat. I don't think we've ever had that chat as a commission, 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:58.640 but I just wanted to highlight that to you is that this is kind of that collaborative effort 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:02.720 that the preservation plan is talking about. And they mentioned other partners as well. 00:22:05.040 --> 00:22:10.400 The next is recommendation 1.8, which is prepare an annual study list of potential 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:16.960 landmarks and districts. I don't think we have this at either. I think we do have some of these 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:23.040 survey areas and mentions within the plan itself, but I don't think it's a living breathing document. 00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:31.200 So that is a recommendation that we can do towards the future. Another one is 1.10, 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:36.640 and that's compile and publish survey report publications and brochures, which we're golden 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:41.360 there. We do have those surveys online for people to access under the historic preservation page. 00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:48.400 So goal number two, we have a total of four policies and 19 recommendations. 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:55.840 And again, we have about five where the historic landmark commission is really coming into play, 00:22:55.840 --> 00:23:01.360 at least that's mentioned in the historic preservation plan. The first is designate new historic 00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:07.440 conservation districts and portions of the woods and Bolivar neighborhoods. So I know there was a 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:14.640 survey done in 2012 for Bolivar. I'm not sure to what extent the commission was involved with that, 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:20.880 but that is something that we are looking to expand as our conservation districts because 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:26.320 we don't have any anymore once Bell became a historic district. Another is considered 00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:30.480 designation of the Hickory and Oakland street commercial area as a historic conservation 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:38.160 district. So looking into that as well, we do have a recommendation 2.15, which is maintain an 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.640 inventory of vacant or deteriorating historic properties, which we started doing. We started 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.560 to keep an eye on this deteriorating properties, especially with code enforcement now getting 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:52.080 involved, which is great, but starting to keep that running list and having those conversations 00:23:52.080 --> 00:23:57.120 of where are we seeing built historic properties kind of deteriorating and creating a list from 00:23:57.120 --> 00:24:04.320 that. And the next is recommendation 2.18 is create a more comprehensive interpretive way, 00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:09.680 finding and science plan for Denton's heritage sites. So this kind of leads into what my next 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.400 work session is. That's going to be kind of more of an open discussion amongst the commission. 00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:22.720 And then lastly is our recommendation 2, that should be 19. We're all out of order. So ignoring 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:29.840 the numbers. 2.19 is pursue preservation based activities as part of the Denton's downtown 00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:34.960 cultural district planning efforts. So I think that was done a little bit this past year with 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:39.600 preservation month, but it was kind of a fast moving process where we weren't able to bring 00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:46.240 the commission on until the two months leading up to prior. But that was kind of moving towards 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:51.040 that recommendation, building up kind of that preservation based activities in the education 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:59.600 and outreach. So goal number three, that does incorporate two policies and 10 recommendations. 00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:08.480 So this is a big part for the Denton Historic Landmark Commission. It does include six different 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:14.000 recommendations and we go all the way down. But this is specifically to ensure the efficient 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:20.080 operations and support of the Denton Historic Landmark Commission. So this is for me ad hoc 00:25:20.080 --> 00:25:24.640 Historic Landmark Commission subcommittees to manage and implement various tasks related to 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:30.320 the survey and education efforts, which we've started doing, maintain Denton's certified local 00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:36.960 government status, which we are conducting regular trainings and create orientation materials for new 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:42.320 commissioners to the Historic Landmarks Commission. Hopefully I'm doing a good job with that. 00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:48.320 Maintaining a rules and procedure document, adopting an annual Historic Landmark Commission 00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:53.360 work plan. I have not seen a work plan since I've been here, but maybe that is something 00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:58.000 that we can work towards in the future. And then completing designation reports for 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:06.160 landmarks and districts. So that's part of that policy 3.1. We also have policy 3.2 and this really 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:13.920 focuses on updating the historic preservation ordinance for remote clarity of COAs, procedures 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:18.960 and Historic Landmark Commission responsibilities among other ordinance enhancements. So that's what 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:24.160 our definition ad hoc committee is actually working on right now. So this is great. We're 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.280 moving this recommendation that they have here, which is a high priority. Preparing a citywide 00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:35.360 design guidelines manual. That's also a high priority, but that will take some time. 00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:41.280 Prepare a more detailed hazard mitigation plan for historic resources in Denton. 00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:45.840 And then lastly, adopting and implementing a historic property deconstruction program. 00:26:45.840 --> 00:26:56.080 And then lastly, we're on goal number four and it has two policy 11 recommendations, 00:26:56.080 --> 00:27:02.160 but we're focusing on 4.1, which is creating a crowdsourced Denton history websites. So that 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:09.360 is just a recommendation. There are some GIS maps out there that I've worked on with other staff. 00:27:09.360 --> 00:27:14.960 So that is growing. There is the encouragement of public participation in crowdsourced community 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:21.120 history storytelling activities. We also have increased awareness and use of federal 00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:26.000 rehabilitation tax credits, which we've learned about and kind of spreading that education with 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.880 people out in the community. And then lastly, to create a marketing plan to encourage additional 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:37.040 local landmark destinations. Really getting out there, be it postcards or flyers or just community 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:41.840 meetings and saying, Hey, here are your benefits, not even just at the local landmark destination, 00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:51.840 but even at the state and federal as well. Any questions? I did have one. What is the crowdsource 00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:59.120 like a historical website? So crowdsourcing would basically be opening a website up and allowing 00:27:59.120 --> 00:28:06.320 people to jump onto that website and provide stories or old photos, different information. 00:28:06.320 --> 00:28:12.720 It would obviously have to go through some type of, I guess, process in terms of making sure the 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:19.120 information is okay to be posted online. But that's basically what crowdsourced. So basically just 00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:23.280 shooting it out there and saying, Hey, you know, give us your story, share your photos so that we 00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:29.920 can create this living, breathing website that is created by people who live here and who have 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:39.440 history here. Does that exist currently? We do not. I've been working with GIS to create a map. We do 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:46.160 have a map so far that has been launched, but it does need to be cleaned. It's supposed to be showing 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:54.080 what buildings have been demoed, what buildings have received alterations, but it's thousands and 00:28:54.080 --> 00:29:00.080 thousands of points in GIS that I have to go through and clean. And so it's taking me a bit 00:29:00.080 --> 00:29:06.640 of time, but that is in the process. And they really, GIS would love to do crowdsourcing, 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.960 but they're not really sure how to do it. And so that's something that we can bring back 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.840 to discuss as a commission and put that on the matrix if we feel. But I just wanted to bring 00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:22.720 these to you all's attention. These are just some of the recommendations that were made in 2019 and 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:28.000 maybe perhaps some goals that the commission can work towards in the future. Yes. Is there anything 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:34.320 included in there about the background experience of the commissioners? I think we got a survey not 00:29:34.320 --> 00:29:46.320 too long ago asking what is our familiarity with historic sites. And so does this, should it include 00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:52.480 anything about that? And then second question relating back to what Mary said, should there 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.040 be anything in there with regard to what communication formats are used when you're 00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:02.880 conducting community surveys that need to be included in this plan? So first answering your 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:09.360 question about the historic background and what qualifications there are. So that is not included 00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:14.880 in this. That was actually just included when we redid the ordinance back in, was that Marcella, 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:20.000 when is that January? I believe so, but I would just know this is a static document that was 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:25.120 created in 2019. So we're not making amendments to this document and it does reference maintaining 00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:30.800 our CLG status and that historic background requirement is part of maintaining that status. 00:30:30.800 --> 00:30:35.840 Yes. So it's not specific, those, that breakdown is not mentioned in the preservation plan. That 00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:41.680 is mentioned specifically under the CLG documentation on Texas Historical Commission's website, 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:47.200 but it was not included in this 2019. And so we updated our ordinance when we reduced the amount 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:53.040 of commissioners recently, and that's where we included those different background requirements 00:30:53.040 --> 00:31:00.000 or qualifications. And then regarding, what is your, I forget. How do you communicate with 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:06.720 surveys of being conducted like the one that was mentioned? So that's also not specifically 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:13.760 mentioned. I know we do have our public affairs department and they are the ones who are handling 00:31:13.760 --> 00:31:18.480 more of that social media outreach. I know they have certain emails that they send it out to 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:24.800 certain businesses. They put it on Facebook. Sometimes they put it on Instagram. I'm not sure 00:31:24.800 --> 00:31:30.480 about flyers. I don't think they- So why not just use Nextdoor? That's much more local than Facebook. 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.080 I'm unfortunately not in charge of that. That's a great suggestion. But it just limits the number 00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:41.040 of people that you're getting input from like me. Right. And I feel left out. Or as commissioners, 00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:45.520 would that be just automatic than anything that went out to the public for their input that we 00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:52.080 would at least have knowledge of? Yeah, exactly. I have no knowledge of. So I don't know if all 00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:56.160 commissions, I don't know if commissions are actually included when they send that out. 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:02.800 I know it's primarily businesses and nonprofits that get that email. But I don't know to what 00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:17.280 extent the commissioners do. I usually hear secondhand as well. I think we're very much off 00:32:17.280 --> 00:32:23.440 topic, so we need to end this discussion. But it's not related to what we're supposed to be 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.000 discussing. So if we want to have a discussion to come back, we can talk about that at The Matrix. 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:32.080 Additionally, you can reach out to your council member or reach out to our community affairs team 00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:36.240 if you have concerns about how surveys are being given out. But for this discussion, 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:43.280 that's not really an appropriate avenue at this time. I hope a lot of decisions are going to be 00:32:43.280 --> 00:32:47.600 made. I'm not sure where we're going with this whole thing. We're not talking about decisions 00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:53.680 that are going to be made. We're discussing a document that is under your duty as a chair 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:59.200 member to be familiar with. So we're just going through the document that has already been 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:04.880 drafted. We're not supposed to have any action related to this document. This is a work session, 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:09.760 not a training session. So I guess that's a title. But yeah, let me make a note to myself of what I 00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:16.800 want to send it to. Okay. Sounds good. And then regarding just the implementation of the Historic 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:23.600 Preservation Plan, this was created with the commission, with the council members, the 00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:28.880 community input. So it is kind of a breakdown of hierarchy here with the citizens of Denton, 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:33.760 then it goes to city council, you all as the Historic Landmark Commission. And then from there, 00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:38.160 if you're willing to do designations, it would go to Planning and Zoning Commission. If we're 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:43.920 looking at doing certificate appropriateness, or just preservation plan recommendations and 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:48.720 getting those implemented, that would come through myself. And then we also have our other preservation 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:54.320 partners here and governmental implementation partners. So we do have the county. We have Denton 00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:59.280 Main Tree Association. We have Texas Historical Commission. And then some of the preservation 00:33:59.280 --> 00:34:08.880 partners are Historic Denton, UNT and TWU, Civic Organization, Cultural District, Investors, etc. 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:16.080 But I just wanted to share if we want to have discussion or anything regarding what was shared 00:34:16.080 --> 00:34:23.600 today. Yeah. Under the Goal 3, there was a Rules and Procedure document. Was anything ever 00:34:23.600 --> 00:34:29.680 promulgated on that? Or was that just a goal to have a later date? That was a goal to have it a 00:34:29.680 --> 00:34:36.720 later date. We did have a little bit of discussion right when I first started trying to kind of go 00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:42.240 over of the correct way of holding a meeting and starting kind of small from there, but we do not 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:50.320 have a living document right now. Maybe something for the rules and optimities. That could be 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.960 something that's more easily amended to solve some of those other issues with that. 00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:59.760 Any more questions or discussion? 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:11.440 I don't know if it's a question or a discussion. And since it's just a working session right now, 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:24.080 were you guys aware of the new log cabin that was purchased to go into the little park? 00:35:24.080 --> 00:35:33.760 Yes. Do y'all know about it? There's another one? There's one that's coming. Okay. It's amazing. 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:39.760 It is just those kinds of things that I wish that we just, you know, could find out about. 00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:46.320 It was purchased from a gentleman that redid the ones already up at the city. 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:52.800 And he had the, it is an old country store and I have got, I have gone in it. It is fascinating. 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:59.920 I'm telling you, it is amazing. So I'm just proud that our city is able to do those kinds of things 00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:06.880 and probably have anything to do with our, but I already have been here. Hold this discussion. 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:10.640 Like if we want to do a work session or if you want to talk about it during concluding items, 00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:16.720 it's just, it's not appropriate for this. It was on your input of who had input. I don't remember. 00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:25.600 Was that in goal four someplace? So there are, oh, yes. Yeah, exactly. I thought you said the word 00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:31.200 investors and I was confused as to what you meant by investors. It says, I see it very well. That's 00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:37.280 right. Okay. It's so hard to see from here. I'm not necessarily sure what was meant by investors. 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:45.600 I, you know, that could be potentially for, you know, saving a property from demolition 00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:52.240 and investing it and fixing it up and working with them specifically to get it designated at 00:36:52.240 --> 00:36:58.320 the state or local level. Developers, obviously we deal with developers a lot when it comes to 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:04.160 historic properties, foundations. I guess I'm just interested in clarification. So I mean, you know, 00:37:04.160 --> 00:37:08.160 you can speculate, but I just wanted to know what was actually meant. I would say you need to check 00:37:08.160 --> 00:37:13.280 the preservation plan, unfortunately, what they meant specifically by investors. I guess it was 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:19.040 also included as a broad concept since it's a broad conceptual plan, not a specific detail, 00:37:19.040 --> 00:37:23.760 like they're broad recommendations. So they probably wanted to include as many potential parties 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:32.240 as possible. Correct. Okay. So I have a question. So this is the plan that we, that was adopted back 00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:37.840 in 2019. Yes. Correct. Correct. So what's now happened is we've gone through this plan and said, 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:46.640 okay, so to implement this plan, we need to things for people to work on goals that are spread. And 00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:52.720 so what you've developed now is a matrix of what should be on our to-do list, if you will. Right. 00:37:52.720 --> 00:38:01.760 Yes. Correct. Okay. And so how do we get those scheduled, add them to the matrix and discuss 00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:09.200 Yes. Yep. So that's what we ended up doing with the definitions ad hoc committee before it was 00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:15.360 implemented. That was a matrix item. Right. And then this item that's about to come forward to you 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:21.680 all on the next work session that I'm doing right after this, that's another item that's in this 00:38:21.680 --> 00:38:26.080 preservation plan, but it's also been brought forward by city council. So now it's coming 00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:30.400 forward to you all. So that's kind of how these things are getting implemented. 00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:45.760 Thank you. Okay. Anything else on this agenda item? Okay. So the next item B under our work session, 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:55.920 HLC 22-005, hold the discussion regarding the formation of a historic marker ad hoc committee 00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:01.520 to create a standard operating procedure and design standards to be used by staff 00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:06.560 property owners and developers when creating historic markers per display. 00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:12.960 So I do not have a presentation for this. This is just going to be up. It's just pictures. 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:21.360 But this is one of the recommendations that we do have within our, one of our goals and policies 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:29.920 that we do have within our preservation plan is to create or implement historic markers of some sort 00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:37.360 in terms of wayfinding signage. So I wanted to bring this forward to you all today in the 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:44.080 possibility of creating a subcommittee that would be in charge of creating these historic markers. 00:39:44.080 --> 00:39:53.040 Staff myself would be there to assist, but staff is looking for HLC to take a direction on this 00:39:53.040 --> 00:39:58.160 because this would be something that's pretty monumental and could really have an impact on 00:39:58.160 --> 00:40:05.600 the community. That's kind of cool. So we do have some examples from different counties, 00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:12.960 also cities as well in North Carolina and Virginia. The example that was provided in the packet was 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:22.160 from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which then the county kind of took over, force that county took 00:40:22.160 --> 00:40:26.640 over and it's kind of a combination or a collaboration between the city as well as the 00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:36.960 county. But so this would be, we've had developers come to staff asking if we do have historic sign 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:42.400 program. Parks Department has recently reached out to me asking me if we have a historic marker 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:48.000 program because they have some Boy Scouts who are wanting to implement some signage. So people, 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:54.400 it's starting to kind of take off. Selwyn School wants to put up a memorial plaque as part of their 00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:00.880 mitigation on site. So they're looking to do something like this as well. So we do have 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:06.880 interest from developers as well as staff and other departments. So I did want to bring this forward 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:15.680 and I guess we do have two options, Roy. Okay. Yeah. I'm assuming your two options are to ask 00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:21.600 for volunteers or to appoint people. So it would be minimum three commissioners votes required to 00:41:21.600 --> 00:41:27.840 create the committee or no action. I have a question. Do we have samples of the various ones 00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:36.000 around our way in the city? The only people who have created signage so far besides the state itself 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:42.640 is our historic landmark designation sign and then the parks and the parks department has not done 00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:47.680 anything like this. They have just their narrative signage that you see at the parks when you visit 00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:53.440 them, when they kind of tell an educational story with photos and all that. But we do not have any 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:59.760 signs of this kind. Would this include street sign talkers like they're doing? No, this wouldn't, 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:05.120 it'd be a separate program. I know I have another one. I just haven't, I haven't put it up. I've got 00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:10.320 two, but I haven't figured out how to attach them to my house. And then a lot of the, a lot of the 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:15.680 houses in that, in the Oak Creek area have a big. Correct. Those are next to the, those are national. 00:42:15.680 --> 00:42:21.520 Register ones. Yes. Yes. So we do have all the designations at the national Texas and local, 00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:26.400 but we do not have anything specifically where a designation isn't required, where it just tells a 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:32.000 story. So that would be the purpose of these markers would just be to tell that narrative or 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:37.760 that story where there might not be a home present or commercial building present anymore, but there's 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:43.760 still a significant story to be told. So would the committee, we're not just talking about the 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.440 actual design of the signs, where are we talking about the procedures for applying? We would 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:52.480 develop the procedures for applying for this, you know, maybe narrative standard, whatever. Yeah. 00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:00.960 Okay. Yes. And the question here today is, do we, do we want to create an ad hoc committee? 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:08.160 And so in order to do that, we need to vote in a majority, at least. At least three commissioners. 00:43:08.160 --> 00:43:13.680 At least three commissioners voting to create the committee. Yes. Correct. Do we need a second 00:43:13.680 --> 00:43:20.240 with the motion or just a motion and then. I believe it's just a motion. That's what we did 00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:25.680 last time. Yeah. It would just be a motion and a crime. It would just be one. No, I had to think 00:43:25.680 --> 00:43:33.440 of that for a second. Cause it's not a nomination. Right. Exactly. So it's okay. So do we have a 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:44.320 motion to start an ad hoc committee to look at historical worker, uh, for state SOPs and 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:51.040 design standards. Okay. We have a motion. We don't need a second. All those in favor signify by 00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:59.600 raising your hand. Well, we have all of our commissioners voting yes. So we add it to the 00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:06.640 matrix next time. Yes. Or to solicit volunteers. We're going to do that next time. Either way. 00:44:06.640 --> 00:44:17.760 Okay. But it's not here. Right now. Well, that's what's up next anyway. Okay. Anything else on 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:32.400 agenda item HLC 22-005 hearing none. Next item on our work session is item C HLC 22-072. Hold 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:47.200 the discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project matrix. Okay. So we have our 00:44:47.200 --> 00:44:52.080 creation of historic signage for properties throughout Dunn, which we discussed today. 00:44:52.080 --> 00:44:58.320 We do have a request for updating discussion on current historic tax assumptions offered in Dunn, 00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:04.160 which was requested by you all in October. So that will be coming to a future meeting. 00:45:04.160 --> 00:45:08.320 You have public outreach and education to homeowners, real estate agents, contractors, 00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:13.840 which will be coming forward to another meeting, as well as the benefits of having a historic 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:19.440 landmark commission, as well as potential for windows standards. So that is what we currently 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:26.080 have. We can add additional requests to the matrix. Do we need to do a motion to do that or? 00:45:26.080 --> 00:45:32.400 You would need a minimum of three votes to get it on the matrix. So should we do it? So my question 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:38.720 is, do we need to have a vote on whether or not to add an item for an accession for this newly 00:45:38.720 --> 00:45:44.480 created ad hoc commission member or requesting membership or something like that? Well, we think 00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:51.280 it would be on our matrix regardless because there's an open item. Okay. I didn't know if 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:55.920 we needed to do something special to do that. Yeah. I think if you guys want to nominate people 00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:03.360 next time, we can just make sure it's on the agenda for next time. Okay. Nominate or ask for 00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:13.040 volunteers. Last time we asked for volunteers. Nominate and/or vote. Who's not going to show up? 00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:20.880 We already have another ad hoc committee. And so rules, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So number one on 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:26.960 the matrix. You want me to do this? Yes. No. Oh, you don't. I just ran through those. So it's just 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:32.160 whether or not anyone wants to add, or if you want specific, if you want one of these specific 00:46:32.160 --> 00:46:39.920 requests to come next meeting, I'm more than happy to do that. But shouldn't the first item, 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:45.200 we've sort of covered that right over. So should we not remove that from the matrix? I think you 00:46:45.200 --> 00:46:51.680 did that presentation, Cameron. I did. Yeah. When? I don't know, but we went really in depth with the 00:46:51.680 --> 00:47:06.960 federal and state. Oh my gosh, I did. Dustin's COAs. I was doing the same thing. I was like, 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.200 was it connected to something different? I think it's been connected to a lot of COAs as well, 00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:18.320 because I've questioned myself. But thank you all for clarifying. Thank you. Okay, I will remove the 00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:24.480 top. The second one, we've just created the committee. So next time, we'll ask for volunteers. 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:38.640 Is that November 14th? I have the page. I'm right. 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:51.680 Is the city holiday to have Columbus Day? No. Okay. I wasn't sure. It's not a state holiday, 00:47:51.680 --> 00:47:58.640 but yeah. We do not have. I work on that day. It doesn't matter. I just want that day. We do have 00:47:58.640 --> 00:48:02.240 Veterans Day this year. That's one of the new city holidays. Okay, good. 00:48:02.240 --> 00:48:08.880 Yeah, they added Veterans Day and Juneteenth this year. Yeah. 00:48:10.720 --> 00:48:16.160 Discussion of the benefits of having an HLC says staff presentation for a future meeting. 00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:23.200 So that one, y'all are going to enroll something else in month or two? Yes, that's fine. It will 00:48:23.200 --> 00:48:31.920 probably be, it'll be very long. A discussion of why we're necessary is probably the most bureaucratic 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:38.880 thing we've ever heard. As a commissioner request. I'll say it was a commissioner request. If you want 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:53.760 to remove it, I can. Okay. No other discussion? All right. Hey, so is this to ask for our window 00:48:53.760 --> 00:49:04.320 standards committee to come back to us? Yes, no. Discussion about the potential for window standards. 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:09.200 We've had a hot committee that's been working on it. Do you guys just let us know when you're 00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:17.040 ready to do that or not? How do we bring that back before us in full glory? So the commission 00:49:17.040 --> 00:49:22.240 or the subcommittee will let me know when they're ready to present. Okay. So that one doesn't need. 00:49:22.240 --> 00:49:32.000 Okay. So we're removing number one, we can obviously we'll removing number two or 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:40.800 updating number two. Are we removing number four? I heard Andi state something. I'm up 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:44.560 for removing number four. I mean, I just think of it as something to short summary to send to 00:49:44.560 --> 00:49:50.320 city council or something. So they know why we're here. Wait, but this is a presentation. 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:59.600 I agree. Okay. So we're moving number four. Wait, removing may have three votes. One, two, 00:49:59.600 --> 00:50:06.400 three. So you have the authority to remove that. That's no episode. Just do it smiling. 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:14.640 I like that answer. Are we still being recorded? Yes, we are. Oh, no. 00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:25.360 So does the window standards get formally sent to the ad hoc committee? No. Do they accept that? 00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:30.320 They were not formally sent to the ad hoc committee. So when that was mentioned as a little bit. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:34.800 Yes, I think they were confused as well. I'll clarify that one. So if ad hoc committee wants 00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:39.840 to take it on, they can. If not, we can do like a work session discussion with the whole group. 00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:46.160 Yes. To prepare standards. And then if we decide we need a committee to meet separately, then we 00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:52.400 can do that. But I know, I think the whole group has pretty varying opinions about windows. Windows 00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:57.760 is like the hot topic. Yeah. So I know. So I kind of feel like maybe everyone will have input on 00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:03.840 that. So it might make sense to do it as a group meeting. No problem. Yeah. That was the plan. 00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:09.680 Okay. And that'll take a while. Well, that's... No, let's go ahead. No, no, no, no. No, you're good. 00:51:09.680 --> 00:51:20.080 I'm the one that asked that to be on here, just so we would have standards. And so we kind of 00:51:20.080 --> 00:51:24.560 thought we, that was our committee, didn't we? Wait, are we talking about the windows standards? 00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:32.560 Well, I think we identified the way, my takeaway from the whole meeting was that there's some 00:51:32.560 --> 00:51:40.400 fundamental issues with, and not way under windows even, really. And so that's what I'm hoping. 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.880 Finally, this week, that's why I asked for the word document. Thank you for sending with the track 00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:51.040 changes in there. I just want to really go over where we are. And then we can talk about where 00:51:51.040 --> 00:51:56.320 we need to be. Because it's my understanding that things have changed a good bit as far as HLC is 00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:03.200 already. Yes. And so we're kind of, I don't know if rebuilding is a word, but in a sense. I think 00:52:03.200 --> 00:52:16.400 it's a good word. Yeah. Well done. See, we're already on. So as far as window, if you guys want 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:20.880 to talk about, I think that's fantastic. But honestly, I have nothing to offer at this point 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:27.840 as far as like the specifics on windows really. So then we might just keep that on here for maybe 00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:32.720 another month or two before we bring that and let the definitions ad hoc committee get through 00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:38.400 their sub-chapter two review. Kind of just seeing where HLC stands in terms of powers and duties, 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:44.400 and then go from there. That might be. Andy, how do you feel? No, I agree totally with you. 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:50.480 Just in addition that I would say to that, if staff, if you can, if you had, I'm not trying to 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:55.440 put this on you. I'm just saying, if you really did have information on windows that could help, 00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:03.680 we would definitely take that. I think that would be great to give us something to start looking 00:53:03.680 --> 00:53:10.080 at. From the national register and the Texas state. All those different things. I know I've 00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:18.720 seen it flashed by my eyes before, but I saw that maybe once or twice. Does anybody else notice in 00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:26.000 the COA we approved that those windows in that building are going to be wood clad windows? Yes. 00:53:26.640 --> 00:53:30.960 I loved it. I love the word. I love the wood. Right. But then I'm thinking those look like 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:35.040 pretty good windows when you're reading about it. The whole time I was thinking how much those, 00:53:35.040 --> 00:53:42.240 those are probably unfortunate. Yeah, they're not. Yeah. They will last forever though. 00:53:42.240 --> 00:53:51.760 Okay. My windows are wood and they are over 100 years old and they're still there. And some of 00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:58.720 the window glass is still the same. Not all of it, I guess. Okay. So any other discussion on the 00:53:58.720 --> 00:54:05.520 matrix? Things we're about to see. I adjourned before you were done my time. So I'm. Yeah. 00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:13.600 Well, if you want to call concluding items, and if you want to continue your discussion of that, 00:54:13.600 --> 00:54:17.360 well, Kevin, if you have anything else to share, it's appropriate. 00:54:19.040 --> 00:54:26.240 Have you guys seen that that's coming? I did see it. And it's fabulous. A while back now though. 00:54:26.240 --> 00:54:32.240 Do what? The Take Record Chronicle did a small blurb about that a while back. Yes. So when it 00:54:32.240 --> 00:54:37.200 gets here and when it's all set up, I would encourage everyone to go take a look. I want 00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:41.280 to meet the guy that's been doing this. I really would. He's a neat guy. He really is a neat guy. 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:45.760 But I'm just telling you, and then I have anything to do probably with historic land commission, 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:52.800 except that all of those structures are historic structures. So my question too, is that do we fit 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:58.560 into any of that at all? So that's through the Denton County Historical Commission. Yeah. So 00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:09.040 that's their office of history and culture. So I would love for us to kind of a mixer of some sort 00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:14.640 with their commission, because I do think they have interest in knowing what we're doing at the 00:55:14.640 --> 00:55:19.920 local level. I'm kind of their point person right now. And so I do fill them in and kind of the 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:26.000 discussions we've had and everything. But I know that I think there is some interest and Melody is 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:33.440 on our past commissioner, Melody, she is on that commission as well still. So, you know, I think, 00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:37.440 I think it would be a great connection to have, and that maybe there can be more of a partnership 00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:42.720 and a collaboration and getting destinations or doing events together and going from there. 00:55:42.720 --> 00:55:48.560 So if you all had interest, I don't know what it was, but there was between the county and the 00:55:48.560 --> 00:55:53.280 city, but I don't know what it was before my time. So I just don't know. Great. Oh, you're talking 00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:57.760 about the friction between the two? Yeah. I don't know what it was, but maybe we've passed all of 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:08.240 that by now. I don't know what it was. Just trying to imagine this. Any other comments or questions 00:56:08.240 --> 00:56:15.680 with regard to the matrix? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. I move we adjourn. 00:56:15.680 --> 00:56:24.080 I second. Those in favor, aye. We ring the bell and we are out of here. Now we're off the record.