1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,600 forum. We're going to call this meeting to order at 533 in the afternoon. Welcome everybody. This 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:14,800 is our regularly scheduled historic landmark commission meeting. Let's all rise and say the 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:22,960 Pledge of Allegiance, followed by the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:31,040 States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, 5 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:39,680 with liberty and justice for all. Honoring the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, 6 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,160 one state, under God, one and indivisible. Thank you. 7 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:56,000 I'm not sure what's going on. It still says this event has not yet started online. Oh really? 8 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:03,920 So we were having technical difficulties and um... Okay. Should I announce that? Yes, now. 9 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:11,120 Okay everybody. Can you call Billy? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to call Billy real quick. 10 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,640 We're going to pause our meeting and go off the record. 11 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,880 We have to connect with SwagIt and they're the ones who record it so that it can be 12 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:31,760 published tomorrow online and so people can watch it live. And that's a requirement that we have so 13 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:38,160 we won't be able to hold the meeting if we cannot get it recorded. Hey, 50 bucks for the done hook 14 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:50,320 death. I knew it. I knew it. You wanted your evening back, I know. Hey look, I've got steak waiting. 15 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:56,560 But I had my salad already. Did you notice those links of this attachment that you emailed to us? 16 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,960 No, I did not. Yes, it's very long. Tell us all about it. Oh, it's on. It's on now? Yeah. 17 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:21,680 Oh, okay. Now we bought you back because you kicked us out. Okay, thanks. Okay, sorry. I just 18 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,920 wanted to make sure because they were going to record it a different way because this room is 19 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:32,640 not technically recording today. Now it's that room. Okay, do you want to go back to square one? 20 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:41,360 To start from? No, okay. Okay, once again, our quorum, we're going to resume where we left off 21 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:51,440 which is our regularly scheduled meeting agenda. Item for consideration, HLC 22-071. 22 00:02:51,440 --> 00:03:01,040 Consider approval of the June 13, 2022 minutes. I think everybody got those in an email. 23 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:10,080 I wasn't there. I'll make a motion. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor? 24 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:18,080 Signify by raising your hand. All right, so it's unanimous. Well, one abstention, right? 25 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:35,200 Thank you, Mary. Ms. Berry, second? Yes. Yes, because she wasn't here that day. Okay, item B, 26 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:46,800 COA 22-0011, hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness 27 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:53,120 in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development Code to remove the north elevator 28 00:03:53,120 --> 00:04:01,520 addition and restore/reconstruct the historic north and west elevation of the north facade at 29 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:09,360 221 North Elm Street, a local historic landmark property and recorded historic Texas landmark. 30 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,400 The site is located on the southwest corner of North Elm Street and West McKinney Street 31 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,520 and Ms. Robertson, I'll turn it to you. Thank you, Chair. 32 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:30,880 This is our City Hall West located at 221 North Elm Street. 33 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,520 Sorry, I'm going to see if I can carry it. Okay, so the location is the southwest corner of North 34 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,320 Elm and West McKinney Street, so directly heading south, just south of us right here. 35 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,480 The owners are the City of Denton. The construction date is circa 1927 36 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,040 and as stated, it's known as City Hall West as well as the old Denton City Hall. 37 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:57,680 So the building's history is designed by Vance Lake and Woodruff. The architectural style is 38 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,280 Spanish Renaissance style. The defining features are arched windows, tile roof, ornamental stone 39 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:09,200 embellishments, kind of that South Texas Mission style influence, and as Chair noted, it's a local 40 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:15,760 historic landmark and a recorded Texas historic landmark. So the request is to demolish the non-original 41 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:21,440 north elevator addition, as you can see right here from the site plan, and reconstruct the historic 42 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,400 north and west elevations of the north facade, so as you can see here in this old photo. 43 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:35,360 This would return the north facade to its original 1927 building footprint. So with that removal, 44 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:43,520 that would be restored. So this is the current conditions. Whoops, I meant view south from West 45 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:51,440 McKinney Street. This is the demolition elevation. So as you can see here, they'd be removing this 46 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,840 addition right here. This is the drawings here and then as shown on the previous slide, that little 47 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:05,120 square right there. This is the proposed elevation. It would include the white brick that you see 48 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:12,800 elsewhere on the facade. It would be wood and metal clad windows for these new additional windows, 49 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,720 the door, as well as the transom window, which would match the rest of the facade on the building. 50 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,120 It would be that vanilla cream colored window finishing that we currently see. 51 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:28,240 We would get the tile roofing back, as well as that cast stone. So this is the window installation 52 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:33,040 details. As you can see here, this is the double hung interior, what it would look like, that double 53 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:41,040 hung exterior, and then these are the different designs. Sorry, we can't really see you on the 54 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:50,320 monitor. Do you want to try standing on this camera? Is it this one? Yeah. Okay. Hello everyone. 55 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:59,680 So this did have to go through the Texas Historical Commission review. This letter is dated May 20, 56 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,800 2022. They did not provide any recommendations, but they did have a determination that it did meet 57 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,120 the Secretary of Interior's standards for rehabilitation, therefore waiving the remainder 58 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:17,680 of the RTHL review period. In staff's analysis, looking at the standards for rehabilitation, 59 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:24,480 and the reason it's a standards for rehabilitation via restoration is due to the fact that they're 60 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:30,640 not removing the south addition as well, returning the full original footprint to the building. 61 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:36,960 So that's why we're having just a rehabilitation job done. So staff looked specifically at points 62 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:42,320 two, three, five, and nine, which we discussed a little bit more in depth in your AIS packet. 63 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:48,560 And staff is recommending approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness request to remove 64 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,120 the north elevator addition and restore and reconstruct the historic north and west elevations 65 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:59,840 of the north facade at City Hall West. Any questions? And we do have the architect here 66 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,720 who would be working on the project. Question. So is there not going to be an elevator then? 67 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,760 Correct. Correct. So there will not be one? There is an elevator on the south facade, 68 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:16,000 or in the south addition, but not the north addition. The north elevator is no longer needed 69 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,000 because a part of the scope will be removing the 1980s infill floors. So that north elevator was 70 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:28,160 only required to access those infill floors. So it's no longer useful. Okay. But there is still 71 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,200 an elevator there for it. There is. It's on the south side. Okay. So that might answer my next 72 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:41,280 question. When was that addition added to the building? I believe 1980. 1981 when they added 73 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:48,640 the police station. Yeah. What does the front of the building look like now out of curiosity? 74 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,920 Did you have a picture of that? It does not look anywhere nearly as pretty as what you showed me 75 00:08:53,920 --> 00:09:00,960 when you started. All the pretty stuff seemed to be gone. It's very similar. I think the trees 76 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:07,200 cover up a lot of that now. Yes. Although it's pretty stone and decorative. I don't remember. 77 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,760 Yes. So that's still as it exists. I was going to say maybe I can pull it up. That's all right. 78 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,880 I just wonder. I don't remember seeing it. It's fine. If you say it's there, I believe you. 79 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,360 I drive by, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong side of it and just. 80 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:26,320 If it helps, Mary. Here's the current picture. I think. 81 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:36,800 That looks so much more attractive. It's the angle. The shot. Probably. Yes, the shot. 82 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:48,800 Thank you. Sure. In our packet, there was a picture of it looked like trim of like a column 83 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:54,240 that maybe is being repaired or something. I wondered where that the ticker was. 84 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:02,000 Are you discussing the I think it's the balustrade or maybe that one's in it. 85 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:27,440 It might've been on that. Some of that. And then I think there was another one. So there, 86 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:34,720 I think in addition, they said they're restoring that as well. Yes, they were repairing those. 87 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:43,280 Yes. That's pretty serious. So do we know what the ultimate use of this building will be in the end? 88 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:52,960 Or can we not say. I wouldn't let. I think it's currently going under a master plan phase and where 89 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:59,040 we're asking the community what the best use for the building is. So that was planning zoning, 90 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,720 which is down here, right? So planning and zoning has been in a couple of locations, but yes, 91 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,120 playing and zoning was there for several years from my understanding. I've heard all kinds of 92 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:16,400 Reservation officer was there too. Yes. Yes. Occupied in 2016. I guess I've heard a lot 93 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,120 of different uses for it. There seems to be a little jockey for what it should be good for. 94 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:27,280 Okay. Any other questions? 95 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:33,760 Where is the discussion about what it's going to be? I've missed this. I know I've been out of 96 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:41,440 town. So the discussion has been, uh, we've had several community meetings. There's a community 97 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:47,920 survey that I know was just recently reposted on social media through the city. Those of us 98 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,840 don't Facebook because we just don't want that. Is there any other place we might see this? 99 00:11:51,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Those surveys, right? Um, I, I do not believe it's being offered elsewhere. I know it's been 100 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:08,880 emailed to, to email groups. Um, but that's been handled by the city of Denton communication. 101 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,720 That seems to me a bad communication plan. Some of us just don't believe in Facebook. 102 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,360 I don't like supporting the person that owns it. 103 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:23,840 I think we're a little off topic, but, uh, I'd be, I'm more than happy to share that survey with you, 104 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,760 Mary. Um, I'm more than happy to share that with all the commissioners, just to make sure 105 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,960 that you all have it. I don't have Facebook either, so I'm not offended. 106 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:40,320 Okay. Any other questions? All right. Hearing none. Um, in order to go forward with this, 107 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:46,640 we'll need a motion. They're the normal four. Um, if you'd like me to go through those, I will. 108 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,360 Um, but I'll entertain a motion. I move that we approve a seat. What is it? 109 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:57,920 Co a two, two dash zero zero one for a certificate of appropriateness to reconstruct the Northwest 110 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:05,360 elevation of the facade on Denton, uh, see almost zero zero one one, one one. Oh, I just wanted to 111 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,720 start. Thank you. Okay. So your motion is to prove that submitted. Yes. Do we have a second? 112 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:16,960 Second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Um, I'll just throw the floor open for discussion. 113 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:26,240 Quiet bunch today. They seem to have gone out all out on the plane. Don't know. It seems pretty 114 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,000 a lot better than the last windows. I saw her this building come through. 115 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:38,400 Okay. Hearing no other discussion. Um, we'll call the vote. All those in favor signify by raising 116 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,160 your right hand. All right. This one is unanimous. It passes. Thank you. 117 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,480 Okay. Next up on our agenda. 118 00:13:54,480 --> 00:14:00,480 Well, first of all, that concludes the public part of our meeting. 119 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Well, she's more than welcome this day. Um, so now we enter item three, 120 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,960 which is the work session and we'll pause for just a minute. 121 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:19,920 Okay. 122 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:36,960 No, I just want to make sure that she knew to accept another email for me. 123 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:45,600 Okay. So we'll unpause ourselves. Um, this is just work session, uh, agenda item three, 124 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:52,640 a HLC 22 dash zero zero six nine, hold the discussion regarding the goals policies 125 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:59,120 and recommendations to achieve the vision and value statements of the didn't sort preservation 126 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:07,200 plan. Mr. Robertson. Okay. So there's a lot of information, but I'm going to summarize as best 127 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,920 as I can so that no one falls asleep while I'm presenting. Um, but so I just thought it'd be good 128 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,160 to do a general overview. Since we have some new commissioners, we hadn't covered this. I thought 129 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,400 it'd be good to do a general overview of the debt and preservation, historic preservation plan, kind 130 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,320 of run through the goals, visions, the values of how we got there and kind of that implementation 131 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:34,880 process. So table of contents. First, we'll be covering the why that I'll be going into vision 132 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:40,320 statement, value statements, um, an overview of the goals, policy and recommendations cause it's 133 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:47,520 pretty heavy and then kind of that implementation as I stated. So the why, so first we have it 134 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:53,840 mentioned in the DDC section 2.3.6 C which does state that the historic landmark commission does 135 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,840 have review authority over the city's historic preservation plan. We also have a lot of community 136 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:05,120 feedback and benefits to this historic preservation plan. As you can see here, we have comments as we 137 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,200 need to preserve and interpret all histories and cultures in Denton. We need to help homeowners 138 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,560 and maintain their properties and prevent the demolition of landmarks. Um, you know, preservation, 139 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:21,360 a lot of people state it's really good to have that mixed use sense of commercial and residential. 140 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,000 It provides unique environments in terms of the built environment. Um, it can create new jobs when 141 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,480 you're rehabbing historic buildings. It can provide also new housing choices as well. 142 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:36,480 And you also have that kind of economic benefits as well as arts and cultural and 143 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:43,440 enhancing property values. So looking now at the economic benefits. So this is kind of a wide range 144 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:49,840 of preservation in general, but 2.26 billion in annual visitor spending is related to historic 145 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:57,200 based tourism. That's huge. That's a great benefit right there. Then 772 million in historic building 146 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:03,200 rehabilitation projects. Then we have, you know, four to five million dollars invested by the 147 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:09,120 federal state of Texas initiative programs. And then that 310 million per year in Texas, 148 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:16,000 GDP and main street revitalization. So then our downtown Denton district. 149 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:24,000 So moving on to the vision statement, I summarize this as a very large paragraph, 150 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,160 but I kind of broke it down highlighting, um, underlying those, you know, pieces that are of 151 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:36,000 importance, I feel like to you all as a commission. So historic preservation has and continues to play 152 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,720 a vital role in a revitalized downtown courthouse square district preservation and conservation of 153 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,600 Denton central and mid century neighborhoods provide opportunities for those walkable places 154 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:53,440 with authenticity and character preservation contributes to the dentist's distinctiveness 155 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,240 and visual qualities preserve buildings and places. Tell the story of Denton 156 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,880 ongoing educational programs and outreach efforts help to tell these stories in innovative ways, 157 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,880 inspiring a new generation of Denton preservation leaders and advocates. 158 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,800 And then lastly, important impact on Denton's economy, neighborhood, 159 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:21,440 cohesiveness and long-term sustainability. Any questions before I move on? I know this is a lot. 160 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:29,840 So moving on to value statements. So in our preservation plan, we have six value statements. 161 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,560 The first one is historic building and resources define Denton's image and identity. 162 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:40,160 From there, we have our statement number two, which heritage resources are vital elements to 163 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,800 maintaining a prosperous downtown Denton. You'll hear downtown Denton because that's kind of where 164 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:51,200 the hub of most of our historic buildings are and where they kind of, um, you know, spread out from 165 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,840 there and branch out. Then we have our statement number three, which is preservation enhances 166 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,600 residential neighborhoods. Historic buildings are visible reminders of Denton's history and time 167 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,240 past, which is our statement number four. Statement number five states that a strong 168 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,880 and effective local historic preservation program requires collaborative efforts between 169 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,520 many different preservation partners. So Denton County, historic Denton, 170 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,920 the different commissions within our Denton County. And then we have our statement number six, 171 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,560 which is preservation efforts in Denton recognize all groups and populations that have contributed 172 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:37,120 to Denton's built environment. Any questions? Okay. So goals, policy and recommendations. 173 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:45,200 So there are four goals. So we're basically working our way up down from the vision to the values to 174 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:51,280 our goals. So our goals, we have four goals. The first one is document inventory and preserve 175 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:57,040 Denton's significant historic cultural and architectural resources. From there it's promote 176 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:03,200 the preservation, adaptive use and stewardship of historic resources as integral elements to 177 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,720 a vibrant and sustainable downtown Denton and residential neighborhoods. Goal number three is 178 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:14,240 to maintain a well-managed integrated municipal historic preservation program that facilitates 179 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:20,000 local preservation activity. And lastly, goal number four is to increase the awareness of historic 180 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,200 preservation benefits through ongoing outreach and educational activities, youth engagement and 181 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:33,840 other programming activities. So we're going to be focusing specifically on the areas highlighted 182 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:39,120 in red. I want to show you all how much there is incorporated into this preservation plan. 183 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:45,280 And I know that I believe Mary and Roy and Angie, as commissioners, all helped implement this back 184 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:52,000 in 2019. And I know this was a huge effort, so I appreciate it. But our first goal that we're 185 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,160 looking at, we're looking at a total of five policies that make up that goal number one 186 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,240 with along with 12 recommendations. But the part where historical landmark commission is always 187 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,880 mentioned are these kind of these different recommendation areas. So the first one is 188 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:13,440 recommendation 1.5, which is to support national register of historic places listings for eligible 189 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:21,200 neighborhoods and existing local historic districts. So that's kind of where we've had surveys done in 190 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,040 the past where we're looking to do national register historic districts or landmarks is 191 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,880 trying to get those implemented, really selling that to the community and saying, these are your 192 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:36,160 benefits that come from getting this national register status. This only benefits you. It doesn't 193 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:43,760 hurt you. The next is to recommendation number 1.6, which is explore potential boundary expansion 194 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:49,600 of the Oak Hickory local historic district south of Hickory Street. I think since my time here, 195 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,440 there's been a little bit of chat. I don't think we've ever had that chat as a commission, 196 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,640 but I just wanted to highlight that to you is that this is kind of that collaborative effort 197 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,720 that the preservation plan is talking about. And they mentioned other partners as well. 198 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,400 The next is recommendation 1.8, which is prepare an annual study list of potential 199 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:16,960 landmarks and districts. I don't think we have this at either. I think we do have some of these 200 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:23,040 survey areas and mentions within the plan itself, but I don't think it's a living breathing document. 201 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:31,200 So that is a recommendation that we can do towards the future. Another one is 1.10, 202 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,640 and that's compile and publish survey report publications and brochures, which we're golden 203 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,360 there. We do have those surveys online for people to access under the historic preservation page. 204 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:48,400 So goal number two, we have a total of four policies and 19 recommendations. 205 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:55,840 And again, we have about five where the historic landmark commission is really coming into play, 206 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:01,360 at least that's mentioned in the historic preservation plan. The first is designate new historic 207 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:07,440 conservation districts and portions of the woods and Bolivar neighborhoods. So I know there was a 208 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:14,640 survey done in 2012 for Bolivar. I'm not sure to what extent the commission was involved with that, 209 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,880 but that is something that we are looking to expand as our conservation districts because 210 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:26,320 we don't have any anymore once Bell became a historic district. Another is considered 211 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,480 designation of the Hickory and Oakland street commercial area as a historic conservation 212 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:38,160 district. So looking into that as well, we do have a recommendation 2.15, which is maintain an 213 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,640 inventory of vacant or deteriorating historic properties, which we started doing. We started 214 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,560 to keep an eye on this deteriorating properties, especially with code enforcement now getting 215 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:52,080 involved, which is great, but starting to keep that running list and having those conversations 216 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,120 of where are we seeing built historic properties kind of deteriorating and creating a list from 217 00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:04,320 that. And the next is recommendation 2.18 is create a more comprehensive interpretive way, 218 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,680 finding and science plan for Denton's heritage sites. So this kind of leads into what my next 219 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,400 work session is. That's going to be kind of more of an open discussion amongst the commission. 220 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:22,720 And then lastly is our recommendation 2, that should be 19. We're all out of order. So ignoring 221 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:29,840 the numbers. 2.19 is pursue preservation based activities as part of the Denton's downtown 222 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,960 cultural district planning efforts. So I think that was done a little bit this past year with 223 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,600 preservation month, but it was kind of a fast moving process where we weren't able to bring 224 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:46,240 the commission on until the two months leading up to prior. But that was kind of moving towards 225 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,040 that recommendation, building up kind of that preservation based activities in the education 226 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:59,600 and outreach. So goal number three, that does incorporate two policies and 10 recommendations. 227 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:08,480 So this is a big part for the Denton Historic Landmark Commission. It does include six different 228 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:14,000 recommendations and we go all the way down. But this is specifically to ensure the efficient 229 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:20,080 operations and support of the Denton Historic Landmark Commission. So this is for me ad hoc 230 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,640 Historic Landmark Commission subcommittees to manage and implement various tasks related to 231 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,320 the survey and education efforts, which we've started doing, maintain Denton's certified local 232 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:36,960 government status, which we are conducting regular trainings and create orientation materials for new 233 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,320 commissioners to the Historic Landmarks Commission. Hopefully I'm doing a good job with that. 234 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:48,320 Maintaining a rules and procedure document, adopting an annual Historic Landmark Commission 235 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,360 work plan. I have not seen a work plan since I've been here, but maybe that is something 236 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:58,000 that we can work towards in the future. And then completing designation reports for 237 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:06,160 landmarks and districts. So that's part of that policy 3.1. We also have policy 3.2 and this really 238 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:13,920 focuses on updating the historic preservation ordinance for remote clarity of COAs, procedures 239 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,960 and Historic Landmark Commission responsibilities among other ordinance enhancements. So that's what 240 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,160 our definition ad hoc committee is actually working on right now. So this is great. We're 241 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,280 moving this recommendation that they have here, which is a high priority. Preparing a citywide 242 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,360 design guidelines manual. That's also a high priority, but that will take some time. 243 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,280 Prepare a more detailed hazard mitigation plan for historic resources in Denton. 244 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,840 And then lastly, adopting and implementing a historic property deconstruction program. 245 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:56,080 And then lastly, we're on goal number four and it has two policy 11 recommendations, 246 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:02,160 but we're focusing on 4.1, which is creating a crowdsourced Denton history websites. So that 247 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:09,360 is just a recommendation. There are some GIS maps out there that I've worked on with other staff. 248 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:14,960 So that is growing. There is the encouragement of public participation in crowdsourced community 249 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:21,120 history storytelling activities. We also have increased awareness and use of federal 250 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:26,000 rehabilitation tax credits, which we've learned about and kind of spreading that education with 251 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,880 people out in the community. And then lastly, to create a marketing plan to encourage additional 252 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:37,040 local landmark destinations. Really getting out there, be it postcards or flyers or just community 253 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,840 meetings and saying, Hey, here are your benefits, not even just at the local landmark destination, 254 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:51,840 but even at the state and federal as well. Any questions? I did have one. What is the crowdsource 255 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:59,120 like a historical website? So crowdsourcing would basically be opening a website up and allowing 256 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:06,320 people to jump onto that website and provide stories or old photos, different information. 257 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:12,720 It would obviously have to go through some type of, I guess, process in terms of making sure the 258 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:19,120 information is okay to be posted online. But that's basically what crowdsourced. So basically just 259 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:23,280 shooting it out there and saying, Hey, you know, give us your story, share your photos so that we 260 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:29,920 can create this living, breathing website that is created by people who live here and who have 261 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:39,440 history here. Does that exist currently? We do not. I've been working with GIS to create a map. We do 262 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:46,160 have a map so far that has been launched, but it does need to be cleaned. It's supposed to be showing 263 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:54,080 what buildings have been demoed, what buildings have received alterations, but it's thousands and 264 00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:00,080 thousands of points in GIS that I have to go through and clean. And so it's taking me a bit 265 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,640 of time, but that is in the process. And they really, GIS would love to do crowdsourcing, 266 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,960 but they're not really sure how to do it. And so that's something that we can bring back 267 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,840 to discuss as a commission and put that on the matrix if we feel. But I just wanted to bring 268 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,720 these to you all's attention. These are just some of the recommendations that were made in 2019 and 269 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:28,000 maybe perhaps some goals that the commission can work towards in the future. Yes. Is there anything 270 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:34,320 included in there about the background experience of the commissioners? I think we got a survey not 271 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:46,320 too long ago asking what is our familiarity with historic sites. And so does this, should it include 272 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:52,480 anything about that? And then second question relating back to what Mary said, should there 273 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,040 be anything in there with regard to what communication formats are used when you're 274 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:02,880 conducting community surveys that need to be included in this plan? So first answering your 275 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,360 question about the historic background and what qualifications there are. So that is not included 276 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:14,880 in this. That was actually just included when we redid the ordinance back in, was that Marcella, 277 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,000 when is that January? I believe so, but I would just know this is a static document that was 278 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,120 created in 2019. So we're not making amendments to this document and it does reference maintaining 279 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,800 our CLG status and that historic background requirement is part of maintaining that status. 280 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,840 Yes. So it's not specific, those, that breakdown is not mentioned in the preservation plan. That 281 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,680 is mentioned specifically under the CLG documentation on Texas Historical Commission's website, 282 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,200 but it was not included in this 2019. And so we updated our ordinance when we reduced the amount 283 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:53,040 of commissioners recently, and that's where we included those different background requirements 284 00:30:53,040 --> 00:31:00,000 or qualifications. And then regarding, what is your, I forget. How do you communicate with 285 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:06,720 surveys of being conducted like the one that was mentioned? So that's also not specifically 286 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:13,760 mentioned. I know we do have our public affairs department and they are the ones who are handling 287 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,480 more of that social media outreach. I know they have certain emails that they send it out to 288 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:24,800 certain businesses. They put it on Facebook. Sometimes they put it on Instagram. I'm not sure 289 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:30,480 about flyers. I don't think they- So why not just use Nextdoor? That's much more local than Facebook. 290 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,080 I'm unfortunately not in charge of that. That's a great suggestion. But it just limits the number 291 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,040 of people that you're getting input from like me. Right. And I feel left out. Or as commissioners, 292 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,520 would that be just automatic than anything that went out to the public for their input that we 293 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:52,080 would at least have knowledge of? Yeah, exactly. I have no knowledge of. So I don't know if all 294 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,160 commissions, I don't know if commissions are actually included when they send that out. 295 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,800 I know it's primarily businesses and nonprofits that get that email. But I don't know to what 296 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:17,280 extent the commissioners do. I usually hear secondhand as well. I think we're very much off 297 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,440 topic, so we need to end this discussion. But it's not related to what we're supposed to be 298 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,000 discussing. So if we want to have a discussion to come back, we can talk about that at The Matrix. 299 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,080 Additionally, you can reach out to your council member or reach out to our community affairs team 300 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,240 if you have concerns about how surveys are being given out. But for this discussion, 301 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:43,280 that's not really an appropriate avenue at this time. I hope a lot of decisions are going to be 302 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,600 made. I'm not sure where we're going with this whole thing. We're not talking about decisions 303 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,680 that are going to be made. We're discussing a document that is under your duty as a chair 304 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,200 member to be familiar with. So we're just going through the document that has already been 305 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,880 drafted. We're not supposed to have any action related to this document. This is a work session, 306 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,760 not a training session. So I guess that's a title. But yeah, let me make a note to myself of what I 307 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:16,800 want to send it to. Okay. Sounds good. And then regarding just the implementation of the Historic 308 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:23,600 Preservation Plan, this was created with the commission, with the council members, the 309 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,880 community input. So it is kind of a breakdown of hierarchy here with the citizens of Denton, 310 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,760 then it goes to city council, you all as the Historic Landmark Commission. And then from there, 311 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,160 if you're willing to do designations, it would go to Planning and Zoning Commission. If we're 312 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,920 looking at doing certificate appropriateness, or just preservation plan recommendations and 313 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,720 getting those implemented, that would come through myself. And then we also have our other preservation 314 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:54,320 partners here and governmental implementation partners. So we do have the county. We have Denton 315 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,280 Main Tree Association. We have Texas Historical Commission. And then some of the preservation 316 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:08,880 partners are Historic Denton, UNT and TWU, Civic Organization, Cultural District, Investors, etc. 317 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:16,080 But I just wanted to share if we want to have discussion or anything regarding what was shared 318 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:23,600 today. Yeah. Under the Goal 3, there was a Rules and Procedure document. Was anything ever 319 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,680 promulgated on that? Or was that just a goal to have a later date? That was a goal to have it a 320 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:36,720 later date. We did have a little bit of discussion right when I first started trying to kind of go 321 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:42,240 over of the correct way of holding a meeting and starting kind of small from there, but we do not 322 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:50,320 have a living document right now. Maybe something for the rules and optimities. That could be 323 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,960 something that's more easily amended to solve some of those other issues with that. 324 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,760 Any more questions or discussion? 325 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:11,440 I don't know if it's a question or a discussion. And since it's just a working session right now, 326 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:24,080 were you guys aware of the new log cabin that was purchased to go into the little park? 327 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:33,760 Yes. Do y'all know about it? There's another one? There's one that's coming. Okay. It's amazing. 328 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:39,760 It is just those kinds of things that I wish that we just, you know, could find out about. 329 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,320 It was purchased from a gentleman that redid the ones already up at the city. 330 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,800 And he had the, it is an old country store and I have got, I have gone in it. It is fascinating. 331 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:59,920 I'm telling you, it is amazing. So I'm just proud that our city is able to do those kinds of things 332 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:06,880 and probably have anything to do with our, but I already have been here. Hold this discussion. 333 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,640 Like if we want to do a work session or if you want to talk about it during concluding items, 334 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,720 it's just, it's not appropriate for this. It was on your input of who had input. I don't remember. 335 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:25,600 Was that in goal four someplace? So there are, oh, yes. Yeah, exactly. I thought you said the word 336 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,200 investors and I was confused as to what you meant by investors. It says, I see it very well. That's 337 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:37,280 right. Okay. It's so hard to see from here. I'm not necessarily sure what was meant by investors. 338 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:45,600 I, you know, that could be potentially for, you know, saving a property from demolition 339 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:52,240 and investing it and fixing it up and working with them specifically to get it designated at 340 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:58,320 the state or local level. Developers, obviously we deal with developers a lot when it comes to 341 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:04,160 historic properties, foundations. I guess I'm just interested in clarification. So I mean, you know, 342 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,160 you can speculate, but I just wanted to know what was actually meant. I would say you need to check 343 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,280 the preservation plan, unfortunately, what they meant specifically by investors. I guess it was 344 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:19,040 also included as a broad concept since it's a broad conceptual plan, not a specific detail, 345 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,760 like they're broad recommendations. So they probably wanted to include as many potential parties 346 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:32,240 as possible. Correct. Okay. So I have a question. So this is the plan that we, that was adopted back 347 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:37,840 in 2019. Yes. Correct. Correct. So what's now happened is we've gone through this plan and said, 348 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:46,640 okay, so to implement this plan, we need to things for people to work on goals that are spread. And 349 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:52,720 so what you've developed now is a matrix of what should be on our to-do list, if you will. Right. 350 00:37:52,720 --> 00:38:01,760 Yes. Correct. Okay. And so how do we get those scheduled, add them to the matrix and discuss 351 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:09,200 Yes. Yep. So that's what we ended up doing with the definitions ad hoc committee before it was 352 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,360 implemented. That was a matrix item. Right. And then this item that's about to come forward to you 353 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:21,680 all on the next work session that I'm doing right after this, that's another item that's in this 354 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,080 preservation plan, but it's also been brought forward by city council. So now it's coming 355 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,400 forward to you all. So that's kind of how these things are getting implemented. 356 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:45,760 Thank you. Okay. Anything else on this agenda item? Okay. So the next item B under our work session, 357 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:55,920 HLC 22-005, hold the discussion regarding the formation of a historic marker ad hoc committee 358 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:01,520 to create a standard operating procedure and design standards to be used by staff 359 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,560 property owners and developers when creating historic markers per display. 360 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,960 So I do not have a presentation for this. This is just going to be up. It's just pictures. 361 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:21,360 But this is one of the recommendations that we do have within our, one of our goals and policies 362 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:29,920 that we do have within our preservation plan is to create or implement historic markers of some sort 363 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:37,360 in terms of wayfinding signage. So I wanted to bring this forward to you all today in the 364 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:44,080 possibility of creating a subcommittee that would be in charge of creating these historic markers. 365 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:53,040 Staff myself would be there to assist, but staff is looking for HLC to take a direction on this 366 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,160 because this would be something that's pretty monumental and could really have an impact on 367 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:05,600 the community. That's kind of cool. So we do have some examples from different counties, 368 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:12,960 also cities as well in North Carolina and Virginia. The example that was provided in the packet was 369 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:22,160 from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which then the county kind of took over, force that county took 370 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,640 over and it's kind of a combination or a collaboration between the city as well as the 371 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:36,960 county. But so this would be, we've had developers come to staff asking if we do have historic sign 372 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,400 program. Parks Department has recently reached out to me asking me if we have a historic marker 373 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:48,000 program because they have some Boy Scouts who are wanting to implement some signage. So people, 374 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:54,400 it's starting to kind of take off. Selwyn School wants to put up a memorial plaque as part of their 375 00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:00,880 mitigation on site. So they're looking to do something like this as well. So we do have 376 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,880 interest from developers as well as staff and other departments. So I did want to bring this forward 377 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:15,680 and I guess we do have two options, Roy. Okay. Yeah. I'm assuming your two options are to ask 378 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:21,600 for volunteers or to appoint people. So it would be minimum three commissioners votes required to 379 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:27,840 create the committee or no action. I have a question. Do we have samples of the various ones 380 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:36,000 around our way in the city? The only people who have created signage so far besides the state itself 381 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:42,640 is our historic landmark designation sign and then the parks and the parks department has not done 382 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,680 anything like this. They have just their narrative signage that you see at the parks when you visit 383 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,440 them, when they kind of tell an educational story with photos and all that. But we do not have any 384 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,760 signs of this kind. Would this include street sign talkers like they're doing? No, this wouldn't, 385 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,120 it'd be a separate program. I know I have another one. I just haven't, I haven't put it up. I've got 386 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:10,320 two, but I haven't figured out how to attach them to my house. And then a lot of the, a lot of the 387 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,680 houses in that, in the Oak Creek area have a big. Correct. Those are next to the, those are national. 388 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:21,520 Register ones. Yes. Yes. So we do have all the designations at the national Texas and local, 389 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,400 but we do not have anything specifically where a designation isn't required, where it just tells a 390 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:32,000 story. So that would be the purpose of these markers would just be to tell that narrative or 391 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,760 that story where there might not be a home present or commercial building present anymore, but there's 392 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:43,760 still a significant story to be told. So would the committee, we're not just talking about the 393 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,440 actual design of the signs, where are we talking about the procedures for applying? We would 394 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,480 develop the procedures for applying for this, you know, maybe narrative standard, whatever. Yeah. 395 00:42:52,480 --> 00:43:00,960 Okay. Yes. And the question here today is, do we, do we want to create an ad hoc committee? 396 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:08,160 And so in order to do that, we need to vote in a majority, at least. At least three commissioners. 397 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,680 At least three commissioners voting to create the committee. Yes. Correct. Do we need a second 398 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:20,240 with the motion or just a motion and then. I believe it's just a motion. That's what we did 399 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:25,680 last time. Yeah. It would just be a motion and a crime. It would just be one. No, I had to think 400 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:33,440 of that for a second. Cause it's not a nomination. Right. Exactly. So it's okay. So do we have a 401 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:44,320 motion to start an ad hoc committee to look at historical worker, uh, for state SOPs and 402 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:51,040 design standards. Okay. We have a motion. We don't need a second. All those in favor signify by 403 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:59,600 raising your hand. Well, we have all of our commissioners voting yes. So we add it to the 404 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:06,640 matrix next time. Yes. Or to solicit volunteers. We're going to do that next time. Either way. 405 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:17,760 Okay. But it's not here. Right now. Well, that's what's up next anyway. Okay. Anything else on 406 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:32,400 agenda item HLC 22-005 hearing none. Next item on our work session is item C HLC 22-072. Hold 407 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:47,200 the discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project matrix. Okay. So we have our 408 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:52,080 creation of historic signage for properties throughout Dunn, which we discussed today. 409 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,320 We do have a request for updating discussion on current historic tax assumptions offered in Dunn, 410 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:04,160 which was requested by you all in October. So that will be coming to a future meeting. 411 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,320 You have public outreach and education to homeowners, real estate agents, contractors, 412 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:13,840 which will be coming forward to another meeting, as well as the benefits of having a historic 413 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:19,440 landmark commission, as well as potential for windows standards. So that is what we currently 414 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:26,080 have. We can add additional requests to the matrix. Do we need to do a motion to do that or? 415 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,400 You would need a minimum of three votes to get it on the matrix. So should we do it? So my question 416 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:38,720 is, do we need to have a vote on whether or not to add an item for an accession for this newly 417 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:44,480 created ad hoc commission member or requesting membership or something like that? Well, we think 418 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:51,280 it would be on our matrix regardless because there's an open item. Okay. I didn't know if 419 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,920 we needed to do something special to do that. Yeah. I think if you guys want to nominate people 420 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,360 next time, we can just make sure it's on the agenda for next time. Okay. Nominate or ask for 421 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:13,040 volunteers. Last time we asked for volunteers. Nominate and/or vote. Who's not going to show up? 422 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:20,880 We already have another ad hoc committee. And so rules, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So number one on 423 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:26,960 the matrix. You want me to do this? Yes. No. Oh, you don't. I just ran through those. So it's just 424 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,160 whether or not anyone wants to add, or if you want specific, if you want one of these specific 425 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:39,920 requests to come next meeting, I'm more than happy to do that. But shouldn't the first item, 426 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:45,200 we've sort of covered that right over. So should we not remove that from the matrix? I think you 427 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:51,680 did that presentation, Cameron. I did. Yeah. When? I don't know, but we went really in depth with the 428 00:46:51,680 --> 00:47:06,960 federal and state. Oh my gosh, I did. Dustin's COAs. I was doing the same thing. I was like, 429 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,200 was it connected to something different? I think it's been connected to a lot of COAs as well, 430 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:18,320 because I've questioned myself. But thank you all for clarifying. Thank you. Okay, I will remove the 431 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:24,480 top. The second one, we've just created the committee. So next time, we'll ask for volunteers. 432 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:38,640 Is that November 14th? I have the page. I'm right. 433 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:51,680 Is the city holiday to have Columbus Day? No. Okay. I wasn't sure. It's not a state holiday, 434 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:58,640 but yeah. We do not have. I work on that day. It doesn't matter. I just want that day. We do have 435 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,240 Veterans Day this year. That's one of the new city holidays. Okay, good. 436 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:08,880 Yeah, they added Veterans Day and Juneteenth this year. Yeah. 437 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:16,160 Discussion of the benefits of having an HLC says staff presentation for a future meeting. 438 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:23,200 So that one, y'all are going to enroll something else in month or two? Yes, that's fine. It will 439 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:31,920 probably be, it'll be very long. A discussion of why we're necessary is probably the most bureaucratic 440 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:38,880 thing we've ever heard. As a commissioner request. I'll say it was a commissioner request. If you want 441 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:53,760 to remove it, I can. Okay. No other discussion? All right. Hey, so is this to ask for our window 442 00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:04,320 standards committee to come back to us? Yes, no. Discussion about the potential for window standards. 443 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:09,200 We've had a hot committee that's been working on it. Do you guys just let us know when you're 444 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:17,040 ready to do that or not? How do we bring that back before us in full glory? So the commission 445 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:22,240 or the subcommittee will let me know when they're ready to present. Okay. So that one doesn't need. 446 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:32,000 Okay. So we're removing number one, we can obviously we'll removing number two or 447 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:40,800 updating number two. Are we removing number four? I heard Andi state something. I'm up 448 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,560 for removing number four. I mean, I just think of it as something to short summary to send to 449 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:50,320 city council or something. So they know why we're here. Wait, but this is a presentation. 450 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:59,600 I agree. Okay. So we're moving number four. Wait, removing may have three votes. One, two, 451 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:06,400 three. So you have the authority to remove that. That's no episode. Just do it smiling. 452 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:14,640 I like that answer. Are we still being recorded? Yes, we are. Oh, no. 453 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:25,360 So does the window standards get formally sent to the ad hoc committee? No. Do they accept that? 454 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,320 They were not formally sent to the ad hoc committee. So when that was mentioned as a little bit. 455 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,800 Yes, I think they were confused as well. I'll clarify that one. So if ad hoc committee wants 456 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:39,840 to take it on, they can. If not, we can do like a work session discussion with the whole group. 457 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:46,160 Yes. To prepare standards. And then if we decide we need a committee to meet separately, then we 458 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:52,400 can do that. But I know, I think the whole group has pretty varying opinions about windows. Windows 459 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,760 is like the hot topic. Yeah. So I know. So I kind of feel like maybe everyone will have input on 460 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:03,840 that. So it might make sense to do it as a group meeting. No problem. Yeah. That was the plan. 461 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:09,680 Okay. And that'll take a while. Well, that's... No, let's go ahead. No, no, no, no. No, you're good. 462 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:20,080 I'm the one that asked that to be on here, just so we would have standards. And so we kind of 463 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,560 thought we, that was our committee, didn't we? Wait, are we talking about the windows standards? 464 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:32,560 Well, I think we identified the way, my takeaway from the whole meeting was that there's some 465 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:40,400 fundamental issues with, and not way under windows even, really. And so that's what I'm hoping. 466 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,880 Finally, this week, that's why I asked for the word document. Thank you for sending with the track 467 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:51,040 changes in there. I just want to really go over where we are. And then we can talk about where 468 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:56,320 we need to be. Because it's my understanding that things have changed a good bit as far as HLC is 469 00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:03,200 already. Yes. And so we're kind of, I don't know if rebuilding is a word, but in a sense. I think 470 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:16,400 it's a good word. Yeah. Well done. See, we're already on. So as far as window, if you guys want 471 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,880 to talk about, I think that's fantastic. But honestly, I have nothing to offer at this point 472 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:27,840 as far as like the specifics on windows really. So then we might just keep that on here for maybe 473 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,720 another month or two before we bring that and let the definitions ad hoc committee get through 474 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,400 their sub-chapter two review. Kind of just seeing where HLC stands in terms of powers and duties, 475 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:44,400 and then go from there. That might be. Andy, how do you feel? No, I agree totally with you. 476 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:50,480 Just in addition that I would say to that, if staff, if you can, if you had, I'm not trying to 477 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,440 put this on you. I'm just saying, if you really did have information on windows that could help, 478 00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:03,680 we would definitely take that. I think that would be great to give us something to start looking 479 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:10,080 at. From the national register and the Texas state. All those different things. I know I've 480 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:18,720 seen it flashed by my eyes before, but I saw that maybe once or twice. Does anybody else notice in 481 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:26,000 the COA we approved that those windows in that building are going to be wood clad windows? Yes. 482 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,960 I loved it. I love the word. I love the wood. Right. But then I'm thinking those look like 483 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,040 pretty good windows when you're reading about it. The whole time I was thinking how much those, 484 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:42,240 those are probably unfortunate. Yeah, they're not. Yeah. They will last forever though. 485 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:51,760 Okay. My windows are wood and they are over 100 years old and they're still there. And some of 486 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:58,720 the window glass is still the same. Not all of it, I guess. Okay. So any other discussion on the 487 00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:05,520 matrix? Things we're about to see. I adjourned before you were done my time. So I'm. Yeah. 488 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:13,600 Well, if you want to call concluding items, and if you want to continue your discussion of that, 489 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,360 well, Kevin, if you have anything else to share, it's appropriate. 490 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:26,240 Have you guys seen that that's coming? I did see it. And it's fabulous. A while back now though. 491 00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:32,240 Do what? The Take Record Chronicle did a small blurb about that a while back. Yes. So when it 492 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:37,200 gets here and when it's all set up, I would encourage everyone to go take a look. I want 493 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,280 to meet the guy that's been doing this. I really would. He's a neat guy. He really is a neat guy. 494 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,760 But I'm just telling you, and then I have anything to do probably with historic land commission, 495 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:52,800 except that all of those structures are historic structures. So my question too, is that do we fit 496 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:58,560 into any of that at all? So that's through the Denton County Historical Commission. Yeah. So 497 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:09,040 that's their office of history and culture. So I would love for us to kind of a mixer of some sort 498 00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:14,640 with their commission, because I do think they have interest in knowing what we're doing at the 499 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,920 local level. I'm kind of their point person right now. And so I do fill them in and kind of the 500 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:26,000 discussions we've had and everything. But I know that I think there is some interest and Melody is 501 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:33,440 on our past commissioner, Melody, she is on that commission as well still. So, you know, I think, 502 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,440 I think it would be a great connection to have, and that maybe there can be more of a partnership 503 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,720 and a collaboration and getting destinations or doing events together and going from there. 504 00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:48,560 So if you all had interest, I don't know what it was, but there was between the county and the 505 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:53,280 city, but I don't know what it was before my time. So I just don't know. Great. Oh, you're talking 506 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,760 about the friction between the two? Yeah. I don't know what it was, but maybe we've passed all of 507 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:08,240 that by now. I don't know what it was. Just trying to imagine this. Any other comments or questions 508 00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:15,680 with regard to the matrix? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. I move we adjourn. 509 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:24,080 I second. Those in favor, aye. We ring the bell and we are out of here. Now we're off the record.