WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.000
 Good evening, everyone, my name is Amber Brighill, I'm the Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustments.

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:14.600
 Today is June 29th, it's 5.35 p.m.

00:00:14.600 --> 00:00:19.920
 We do have a quorum present, so I'd like to call this meeting to order.

00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:24.640
 First I'll go through the game plan after we do the first item of business, which is

00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:32.320
 the Pledge to the U.S. and the Texas Flag, rise as you're able, please.

00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:38.280
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:47.360
 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:58.120
 Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one and indivisible.

00:00:58.120 --> 00:01:00.600
 Thank you.

00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:09.680
 The next item of business is considering the minutes from our last meeting of May 16th,

00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:17.920
 if we have any additions or corrections to that before we make a motion?

00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:18.920
 No?

00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:19.920
 I'd entertain a motion then.

00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:20.920
 See a motion.

00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:23.600
 The first from Jennifer, and a second.

00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:28.200
 Do we have any conversation, discussion about the minutes from the last meeting?

00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:29.200
 No?

00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:34.000
 All right, all those in favor of approving the minutes from May 16th, raise your hand.

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.000
 Any opposed?

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.000
 Any abstained?

00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.000
 Motion passes unanimously.

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.420
 Oh, that was the first one.

00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:41.420
 The second one.

00:01:41.420 --> 00:01:43.880
 Let's do the second one, because there were two.

00:01:43.880 --> 00:01:45.360
 We had two meetings technically.

00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:48.000
 I'll make a motion for the second.

00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.000
 Thank you.

00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.000
 Is there a second?

00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:51.000
 Second?

00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:52.000
 All right.

00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.000
 And any discussion?

00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:54.000
 All those in favor?

00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.000
 Any opposed?

00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.000
 And any abstained?

00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:57.000
 That passes unanimously.

00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:58.000
 Perfect.

00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.000
 Easy breezy.

00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:00.000
 Moving along.

00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.580
 Okay, so this next part is the more complicated part.

00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:09.880
 It is a public hearing.

00:02:09.880 --> 00:02:14.240
 That means that anyone in attendance can speak on this item.

00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.800
 People can also phone in to the meeting if they'd like to make a comment.

00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:22.440
 We do request that you fill out a card, though if you'd like to, as the spirit moves, you

00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:25.360
 get up and speak and fill out a card later.

00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:26.360
 That's okay, too.

00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:27.680
 Let me talk about how it's going to go.

00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:34.560
 So it takes six votes to reverse or modify any determination of an administrative official

00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:39.080
 on appeal, and that's what we're looking at tonight.

00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:43.080
 What we're going to do is we're going to hear first from city staff.

00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:48.200
 Then each party will get up to 20 minutes to present their case.

00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:51.000
 Now if you want to divvy that up, if there's multiple people in your party and one person

00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.480
 speaks for five minutes, another person speaks for 15, that's fine, whatever it is.

00:02:54.480 --> 00:03:08.600
 But each party will get 20 minutes total for each party.

00:03:08.600 --> 00:03:15.180
 After all the parties have done their presentation, then each party will get an opportunity for

00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:23.880
 a rebuttal, which will be two minutes per speaker with a total of 10 minutes per party.

00:03:23.880 --> 00:03:28.860
 When that's all done, then we will invite comments from the public, which can be three

00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:29.860
 minutes in length.

00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:31.480
 Is that clear as mud?

00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:32.480
 Cool.

00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:33.480
 Okay.

00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:38.240
 Did I miss anything?

00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:39.240
 We're good.

00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:40.240
 Okay.

00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:46.640
 So I'm going to call the public hearing to order.

00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:54.160
 It's 539, because we are a quasi-judicial board, we are required to swear people in,

00:03:54.160 --> 00:03:57.920
 and in the interest of time, I would like to just swear you all in.

00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:01.400
 At the same time, that includes people who would maybe like to speak in the public comment

00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:02.400
 period later.

00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:09.960
 If you could go stand please and raise your right hand.

00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:11.180
 Thank you.

00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:16.680
 Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide

00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:21.200
 or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct to the best

00:04:21.200 --> 00:04:22.640
 of your knowledge and ability?

00:04:22.640 --> 00:04:25.280
 If please, if so, please answer I do.

00:04:25.280 --> 00:04:26.280
 I do.

00:04:26.280 --> 00:04:27.280
 Great.

00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:28.280
 Thank you.

00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:29.520
 You can be seated.

00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:39.120
 So, excuse me, I have, there's like 66 pages here, so just give me a second.

00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.120
 Okay.

00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:44.600
 So in this public hearing, we are going to consider an appeal of an administrative decision

00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:48.600
 regarding the interpretation of the definition, nope, just kidding.

00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:49.600
 That is from the minutes.

00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:50.600
 There's 66 pages here.

00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:51.600
 Please, excuse me.

00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:52.600
 Yeah.

00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:53.600
 Where am I at?

00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.600
 Here we go.

00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:55.600
 This one?

00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.600
 That is the one.

00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:57.600
 Three, yes.

00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:58.600
 Okay.

00:04:58.600 --> 00:04:59.600
 Thank you.

00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:00.600
 Thanks, everyone.

00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.760
 Hold a public hearing and consider an appeal for an administrative decision regarding

00:05:03.760 --> 00:05:10.160
 the approval of a zoning compliance plan for a multifamily development and who is our presenter

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:11.160
 on this one?

00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:12.160
 Staff.

00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:13.160
 Staff is presenting.

00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:14.160
 First.

00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.160
 Sorry.

00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:16.160
 Okay.

00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.000
 I'd like to open the Florida city staff.

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:25.280
 Madam Chair, Tina Fargan, Deputy Director of Development Services.

00:05:25.280 --> 00:05:28.920
 Actually, Mr. McDonald's going to start, so I think he was taking care of a housekeeping

00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:35.520
 ... Come on, Scott, you had one job, man.

00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:36.680
 My apologies.

00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:37.960
 Our front doors are locked.

00:05:37.960 --> 00:05:40.200
 Julie, if you can assist with that, please.

00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:41.200
 Thank you.

00:05:41.200 --> 00:05:44.920
 I heard someone knocking, so we just wanted to make sure everybody could get into the

00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:45.920
 building.

00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:46.920
 Great.

00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:47.920
 Thank you.

00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.160
 Good evening, Madam Chair, Board.

00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:53.400
 My name is Scott McDonald, Director of Development Services.

00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:55.720
 I'm here to discuss this item with you.

00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:02.440
 I, first and foremost, would like to acknowledge Haley Zagurski, our Assistant Planning Director.

00:06:02.440 --> 00:06:06.800
 She is one that provided the staff analysis largely and put together this presentation.

00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:11.500
 Unfortunately, she's not able to be here this evening, and it will take two, maybe three

00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:13.840
 of us to put this together.

00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:17.000
 I will begin this presentation.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:22.640
 Tina Fargan, our Planning Director, will follow me with some of the details, but I'll get

00:06:22.640 --> 00:06:26.760
 a little bit more into that as we go.

00:06:26.760 --> 00:06:30.480
 First of all, I'd like to provide a little bit of background and overview of what this

00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.200
 site is.

00:06:32.200 --> 00:06:38.600
 As you may be aware, this is a seven-acre site on the south side of I-35.

00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:48.780
 What we have is the zoning compliance plan, zoning compliance plan for a multifamily development.

00:06:48.780 --> 00:06:56.720
 This is a by-right proposition, and what that means is that the existing zoning use is allowed

00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.880
 in this district, and that it can be built, and the use and associated development requirements

00:07:01.880 --> 00:07:03.880
 can be met.

00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:07.440
 That's what this review is.

00:07:07.440 --> 00:07:12.260
 It's important to note that the requirements that are provided in the DDC, as well as in

00:07:12.260 --> 00:07:19.080
 our criteria manuals adopted by the city, are in compliance, and this is where we're

00:07:19.080 --> 00:07:22.160
 going to start.

00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:30.000
 Another component of this is that we had a previously heard SUP, which was for a 60-foot

00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.720
 and height multifamily project.

00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:39.640
 This was denied by council in October 19 of 2021.

00:07:39.640 --> 00:07:46.520
 This SUP is no longer relevant, so the application that was received for the zoning compliance

00:07:46.520 --> 00:07:52.200
 plan is a completely different application, and was viewed with a different set of lenses.

00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:55.920
 There has been some references to some of the previous items, so I just want to clarify

00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:01.680
 that on the front side that this is separate, and that we clearly want to make sure that

00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:09.320
 anything that ended with that project began anew, and that's what we're discussing.

00:08:09.320 --> 00:08:13.080
 A little bit of background about a zoning compliance plan.

00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:19.080
 Zoning compliance plan is really the first step in a multi-step development review process.

00:08:19.080 --> 00:08:24.400
 It's a comprehensive view of what someone's proposing to do.

00:08:24.400 --> 00:08:29.480
 It is a bird's eye view of what it is and what rights somebody has to develop under

00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.880
 a piece of property.

00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:38.880
 The second piece in that is it's submitted, typically it's a site plan, a landscape plan,

00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:42.000
 re-preservation, and grading plan sheets.

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.360
 We'll look at some of that detail a little further as we get into this, but again it's

00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:50.720
 just an overview to provide, and this is a staff approval.

00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:57.360
 As you see to the right side of the image that's on the screen, we outline really the

00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.600
 typical development process for any project here in the city of Denton, and where that

00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:02.600
 falls in.

00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:08.640
 Again, administratively staff reviews a zoning compliance plan to look to see if everything

00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:12.560
 that they're looking at to do meets our DDC.

00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:18.960
 When I say meets the DDC, it's the intent of the DDC and those elements within the DDC,

00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:23.080
 and then we get into greater detail when we follow those following steps.

00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:28.000
 As you see outlined here, you have the zoning compliance plan, preliminary PLAT, civil engineering

00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.480
 plans, final PLAT, really before any construction can begin.

00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.660
 It provides the developer with an assurance that the property can be developed.

00:09:37.660 --> 00:09:46.240
 It presumes that they are able to obtain all of the offsite permits as needed and are necessary,

00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:52.880
 and they have the engineering plans approved, submitted, and PLATing then approved, and

00:09:52.880 --> 00:09:54.880
 we can move forward.

00:09:54.880 --> 00:10:03.400
 Again, the DDC recognizes this as a phased approach, so again this is one piece, that

00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:08.280
 first piece in the puzzle as we get further into the process.

00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:12.040
 Each step in the process builds upon the previous.

00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:16.760
 There's no construction that's able to commence until the completion of the civil engineering

00:10:16.760 --> 00:10:22.760
 plans and the PLAT.

00:10:22.760 --> 00:10:26.320
 A quick overview of the specifics of the site.

00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.960
 What you have here is one building, which is three stories in height, maximum height

00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:35.080
 of 40 feet, 245 units.

00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:40.040
 You'll see that you have structured parking and some surface parking, and the primary

00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:44.240
 access that's highlighted is via I-35.

00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:50.200
 Tina will get into some of the specifics that relate to some of the other access points

00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:54.120
 and how it is that we work through this.

00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.640
 As you see to the south of Southridge Estates, we recognize that some of the neighboring

00:10:58.640 --> 00:11:03.060
 properties may not want the property to develop as it is important to note this property is

00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:04.920
 eligible for development.

00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:06.600
 This is a by-write development.

00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:11.000
 Again, I remind you the SUP was denied.

00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.800
 The developer indicated that they would be coming back with a by-write product, and that's

00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:24.400
 what it is that we reviewed to with this ZCP application.

00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:26.800
 This is our typical landscape plan.

00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:34.280
 What you will see is the dark trees, the dark circles are trees and shrubs that will be

00:11:34.280 --> 00:11:35.960
 the new plantings.

00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:43.200
 The lighter trees are that of what's going to be preserved.

00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:48.760
 The tree preservation plan, and I'm just going to bounce back just so you can see the contrast

00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:53.960
 between the two, you will notice that some of the trees that are, again, the lighter

00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:59.440
 trees, those preserved trees, here they're going to be darker trees.

00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.920
 We have darker trees.

00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:06.280
 Those are the preserved trees that we were showing on the landscape plan.

00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:11.240
 The lighter trees with the access are the trees that are to be removed, and then you'll

00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:16.440
 see just in a very light silhouette that of the parking and building structures below.

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:21.880
 As a side note, this plan is a great example of why it is that we require multiple development

00:12:21.880 --> 00:12:31.440
 plans sheets to be able to separate out the context for review and to be able to legibly

00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:37.320
 see what it is that is on the plans to ensure that this is a proper application and that

00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:43.680
 it will be susceptible for development.

00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:50.480
 This evening, the appeal claims that the zoning compliance plan failed to meet several of

00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.480
 the general criteria for approval in the DDC.

00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.320
 Staff will address each of these bases for the appeal in turn.

00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.800
 The full deal is provided in your exhibit too.

00:12:59.800 --> 00:13:03.040
 Hopefully you all understood all of that.

00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:13.120
 We're looking for this to provide that criteria for approval in the DDC that was outlined

00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:19.160
 in the DDC and that staff follow the procedures in the DDC, and again, I think the important

00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:26.860
 piece to this is the intent of the applicable standards from the DDC compared to the written

00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:31.120
 decision that's being appealed.

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:36.360
 Tina will provide greater detail on the city's response and the administrative appeal to

00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.080
 staff's decision.

00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:42.600
 Additionally, Julie Wyatt is available for any code questions as necessary.

00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:53.040
 Thank you and Tina will take over from this point.

00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:55.280
 Good afternoon, Chair, Zoning Board of Adjustment.

00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:58.320
 Tina Fergens, I'm the Deputy Director of Development Services.

00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.040
 Thank you, Scott, for providing that initial context as it relates to the proposed request

00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:05.040
 for your consideration this evening.

00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:09.480
 What I'm going to be doing is presenting the basis of appeal that was submitted by

00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:15.800
 the applicant and then also being able to address the city's response to each of those.

00:14:15.800 --> 00:14:20.600
 Given the amount of content that has to be covered, my apologies, I've got a quick delivery.

00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.320
 My goal is to provide you with more of a high-level summary overview.

00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:28.160
 My intention is not to read all of the words that are on the slides that are before you.

00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:31.960
 The content that is included on the slides is consistent with all of the staff analysis

00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:36.600
 in the agenda information summary sheet that was included in your packet, so hopefully

00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:42.240
 what I'm adding is just in addition to or explaining some of the content that was provided

00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.240
 in the written materials.

00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:48.240
 We're going to start with the first consideration, appeal basis number one.

00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.680
 This actually has two components really associated with it.

00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:55.380
 The first one addresses the two points of access requirement and then the second component

00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:58.520
 addresses the trees and the landscaping.

00:14:58.520 --> 00:15:06.240
 As it relates to the access, the appellant claims that the zoning compliance plan failed

00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:10.280
 to demonstrate the existence of a secondary emergency fire access, either through the

00:15:10.280 --> 00:15:14.720
 Brookdale property or the Buckees development that is to the Southwest.

00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.520
 As Scott explained, we have different steps within our development sequencing phase.

00:15:19.520 --> 00:15:21.520
 The zoning compliance plan is the first step.

00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:23.360
 The next step is the platting.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.880
 All new subdivisions and subdivisions of land is tied to platting.

00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:29.640
 All new subdivisions have two points of access where feasible.

00:15:29.640 --> 00:15:32.120
 That's a requirement of the DDC.

00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:37.120
 The international fire code requires two points of access for multifamily development that

00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.560
 have greater than 200 units.

00:15:39.560 --> 00:15:43.760
 The zoning compliance plan demonstrated that it has one primary point of access, which

00:15:43.760 --> 00:15:48.880
 if you look at the graphic that's shown here where the star is, that's the primary point

00:15:48.880 --> 00:15:49.880
 of access.

00:15:49.880 --> 00:15:53.120
 The second point of access that the applicant was proposing as part of the zoning compliance

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.900
 plan is a second point of emergency access.

00:15:55.900 --> 00:16:00.600
 As noted in your staff analysis, that second point of access was noted as a 24-foot access

00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.380
 easement by separate instrument.

00:16:02.380 --> 00:16:07.680
 The zoning compliance plan is recognizing that if our plan is approved, we have to be able

00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:10.040
 to go and secure that offsite easement.

00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:12.480
 The pavement actually exists there today.

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.800
 The applicant will have to make a connection to that pavement and obtain the actual easement

00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:23.280
 itself as part of the platting process and would do so by separate instrument.

00:16:23.280 --> 00:16:27.120
 Separate instrument is a separate document, if you will, that's filed of record for dedicating

00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.800
 the easement.

00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:33.080
 Next the offsite easement is related to the subdivision of the property.

00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:37.320
 As mentioned, the DDC allows for the phased sequencing of the planned submittals, as Scott

00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.160
 had explained earlier, and that second point of access for the offsite easement dedication

00:16:41.160 --> 00:16:42.960
 will occur at the time of platting.

00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.680
 The timing of the easement dedication is supported by the DDC, section 7, 8, 10, which is related

00:16:48.680 --> 00:16:52.720
 to easements with subdivision applications.

00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:58.680
 And the other citation that provides the support is section 8.3.2c.1c, which addresses the

00:16:58.680 --> 00:17:02.040
 two points of access for subdivision at the time of platting.

00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:06.280
 Also I think what is important to note is that if the applicant is not able to obtain

00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:10.960
 the necessary offsite access easement, then the city will not issue a building permit.

00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.200
 We're not going to issue a permit to allow somebody to go build a development project

00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.440
 if they don't have all of the criteria satisfied, and one of those criteria being the easement

00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.680
 dedication itself.

00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:25.420
 So the second component associated with appeal basis, number one, was that the zoning compliance

00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:29.440
 plan failed to demonstrate compliance with the tree preservation and landscaping plan

00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:30.440
 requirements.

00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.360
 So Scott shared with you the landscaping plan previously, as well as the tree preservation

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:35.360
 plan.

00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:36.840
 So before you is a copy of the landscape plan.

00:17:36.840 --> 00:17:40.720
 It shows all of the existing trees that were to be preserved, as well as proposed additional

00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.160
 trees that are being added to the site.

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.420
 The proposed trees are the ones that are shown in the darker circles.

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:51.120
 But this table that I have provided here, and again, thank you to Haley Zagurski for

00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.240
 pulling this information together, but this table succinctly demonstrates how the applicant

00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:59.480
 has met and has actually exceeded the minimum requirements that are provided for in the

00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:00.800
 development code.

00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:05.520
 The column on the left specifies the minimum requirements that have to be adhered to, and

00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:09.600
 the column on the right clearly shows with the numbers that they're equal to or exceed.

00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:13.400
 In this case, actually they exceed all of the minimum requirements that are provided

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:15.600
 for in the development code.

00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:20.520
 Additionally, as it relates to tree preservation, it is important to understand that the DDC

00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:26.200
 encourages preservation of 30% of the DBH or that's the diameter at breast height of

00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:28.960
 heritage and quality trees on the property.

00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:38.360
 The DDC section 7.7.4G.1.B.II authorizes any development to decrease the preservation

00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:43.080
 of those trees to 20% of the DBH.

00:18:43.080 --> 00:18:47.320
 With that reduction of the preservation of 20% of the DBH, if a higher mitigation ratio

00:18:47.320 --> 00:18:52.880
 is applied to the amount of inches being decreased below the 30%, so for whatever amount that's

00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:58.000
 lowered below the 30%, that difference has to be mitigated in one way or two ways that

00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.160
 can be mitigated is through the planting of additional trees on the property also or in

00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.800
 the form of pay in lieu of.

00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:09.960
 The plan that is before you and that was included in your packet, the landscape plan does comply

00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:14.080
 with the mitigation requirements that are provided for in the DDC.

00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:21.400
 The DDC authorizes staff to be able to administratively approve that reduction.

00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:27.000
 The second basis of appeal has two components associated with it.

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.300
 The first is with respect to the two points of access, and then the second is with respect

00:19:30.300 --> 00:19:35.000
 to vehicle access outside the fire lanes.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.460
 The appellant claims that the zoning compliance plan failed to demonstrate compliance with

00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:42.260
 section 106.2 of the fire code.

00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:46.640
 As I just explained previously, the international fire code requires two points of access for

00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:50.600
 multifamily developments that have greater than 200 units.

00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:55.720
 What's important to note is the IFC does not specify a timeframe for when that access or

00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:57.040
 easement has to be acquired.

00:19:57.040 --> 00:20:01.360
 But again, the fire department is not going to allow for the construction of any improvements

00:20:01.360 --> 00:20:02.600
 until that easement is acquired.

00:20:02.600 --> 00:20:05.640
 As I mentioned earlier, we're not going to issue a building permit until that easement

00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.640
 requirement has been satisfied.

00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.520
 The approved access means that the fire marshal has approved the access.

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:13.440
 In this case, it's through the Brookdale property.

00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:17.120
 Again, that's where the red circle is located on this.

00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:20.920
 The fire code essentially allows for the cities to determine when the easement needs to be

00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:25.920
 satisfied and indent and that is at the time of platting, as I just previously explained.

00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:33.840
 Also, I should point out that the property was reviewed under the 2012 IFC, which was

00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:36.480
 the code that was in effect at the time.

00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:40.400
 Today, we have a requirement and we've updated a more recent version of the IFC.

00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.920
 Today, we have a requirement now for remoteness and remoteness provides an additional means

00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.000
 of access.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.400
 While this zoning compliance plan did not have to satisfy the requirement, it actually does.

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.380
 If all is built in the world today that surrounds this development, it will actually have three

00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:58.820
 points of access, which is the blue circle that provides the connection to the buckies

00:20:58.820 --> 00:21:02.080
 development and the remaining lots that are to develop through that area.

00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:07.000
 Nugget way has not been extended to the property line, but if at such point in time when nugget

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.720
 way is extended, it would connect to this development.

00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.680
 The applicant is proposing to extend their pavement to the property line so that they

00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:13.680
 can make that connection.

00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:18.680
 Essentially, we would have three points of access associated with this development.

00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:23.040
 With respect to the second component of this provision, the appellant claims that the zoning

00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:27.440
 compliance plan failed to accommodate for vehicular access outside of the fire lane,

00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.820
 as well as that the fire lanes are only the minimum width provided and that the developer

00:21:30.820 --> 00:21:33.960
 wasn't providing anything above and beyond.

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.920
 The definition of a fire apparatus access road is a general term that's inclusive of

00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.080
 fire lanes, public streets, private streets, parking lot lanes, and access roadways.

00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:47.840
 While the fire lane definition indicates that they are not necessarily intended for vehicular

00:21:47.840 --> 00:21:53.320
 traffic, the fire apparatus access road definition and standards acknowledge that the fire access

00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:57.080
 will be shared with other vehicles on the streets in the parking lots.

00:21:57.080 --> 00:22:01.600
 Nothing in the IFC requires fire access roads, including fire lanes, to be separate from

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:03.840
 other vehicular access.

00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:05.560
 I've been a planner for 27 years.

00:22:05.560 --> 00:22:09.000
 I've worked in six cities, which Denton is one of them, I can assure you, throughout

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:13.120
 the North Texas area, and even if you travel throughout the United States, access is provided

00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:17.080
 in the form of a fire lane throughout development projects.

00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:21.800
 If the fire department were to interpret that we had to have two sets of pavement, one solely

00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:25.920
 specifically for the fire department to access and one for everybody else, with all development

00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.880
 projects happening, I don't care if it's commercial, multi-family, or single-family residential,

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.160
 we would have then double the amount of pavement being constructed associated with these projects.

00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:40.500
 Also, the other thing is that the applicant makes claim that the developer is only providing

00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:42.360
 24-foot wide fire lanes.

00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:45.680
 At the time the zoning compliance plan was reviewed, our requirement was 20-foot fire

00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.680
 lanes.

00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:51.160
 So they're providing 24 feet of fire lanes on three sides, a 26-foot wide fire lane on

00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:55.240
 the fourth side, so that clearly exceeds the minimum 20-foot width.

00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.800
 Also what I would submit to you is that single-family residential streets are typically 33 feet

00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:00.800
 and wide.

00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:02.920
 We allow for on-street parking on either side.

00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:07.920
 So as a result, by doing the math, that leaves about 15 to 17 feet of clear unobstructed

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.000
 pathway for vehicles to be able to verse along.

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.600
 Fire lanes, on the other hand, we don't allow parking within them.

00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:16.680
 So if you have a fire lane in your development, you're actually getting a better deal because

00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:23.380
 you have 24 feet or 26 if it's provided for aerial access, but you have a better access

00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:27.840
 arrangement associated with the fire lanes because you're getting that 24 feet of width

00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:32.760
 of unobstructive travel, typical single-family residential street.

00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:37.200
 So the next item is for the applicant's basis of appeal, is that the zoning compliance plan

00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:42.360
 failed to minimize adverse visual impacts in site several items that were previously

00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:44.520
 shown on the specific use permit plan.

00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:49.440
 So as Mr. McDonald just explained, this item is not pertained or this basis of the appeal

00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.120
 does not pertain to this zoning compliance plan.

00:23:52.120 --> 00:23:56.880
 Any considerations associated with the plan provided with the specific use permit application

00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.880
 are no longer applicable to this.

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.680
 Furthermore, any testimony, any discussions, anything that the developer offered up during

00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:06.460
 that discussion on the specific use plan are not allowed to be considered as part of the

00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:07.920
 zoning compliance plan.

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.920
 Table 2.2.A within the debt and development code specifically demonstrates that zoning

00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.040
 compliance plans are not subject to public input or public comment.

00:24:16.040 --> 00:24:21.080
 So therefore the plan that is submitted today does comply with all of the requirements that

00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:23.200
 are associated with the zoning compliance plan.

00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.600
 Anything offered up through that discretionary specific use permit approval process is no

00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:29.400
 longer valid or applicable to this project.

00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.400
 The other thing that I would propose is that the debt and development code has prescribed

00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:38.620
 the minimum standards associated with development for by-right in this particular case.

00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:42.000
 Those minimum standards are the standards in which the city has deemed to be the most

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:46.000
 appropriate to accommodate by-right development, including by-right development adjacent to

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.220
 single family residential neighborhoods, and that zoning compliance plan meets or exceeds

00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.640
 those requirements.

00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:53.640
 So appeal based...

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:54.640
 Yes?

00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.000
 So I've been told that your 10 minutes are up.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:57.000
 Oh, they are?

00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.000
 Okay.

00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.000
 All right.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:00.000
 Thank you for that information.

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.000
 Thank you.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:02.000
 You're welcome.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.000
 Is there...

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:04.000
 So Scott spoke and Tina spoke.

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.280
 Is there still time left if there's someone else from the city who wants to speak to give

00:25:07.280 --> 00:25:08.280
 the 20 minutes?

00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:09.280
 Was there any time left?

00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:10.280
 Okay.

00:25:10.280 --> 00:25:11.280
 All right.

00:25:11.280 --> 00:25:12.280
 Okay.

00:25:12.280 --> 00:25:13.280
 All right.

00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:14.280
 Pardon?

00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:15.280
 Would you say 30 seconds?

00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:16.280
 Your last slide.

00:25:16.280 --> 00:25:17.280
 Okay.

00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:18.280
 So I'll go to the last slide.

00:25:18.280 --> 00:25:19.440
 And some of this is also repetitive.

00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.600
 Appeal basis number four, again, ties back to the access requirements.

00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:26.720
 The ESEL language, I'll be honest with you, the explanation that's provided for in the

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:32.080
 staff analysis adequately demonstrates why there are no ESAs that are on this property.

00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:33.660
 But lastly, what we have is...

00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:37.080
 So again, there was the three criteria in which the board were to consider as it relates

00:25:37.080 --> 00:25:39.540
 to this particular request.

00:25:39.540 --> 00:25:43.440
 And so as Scott laid out, the items are listed there in the check mark items here.

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:47.600
 We've clearly demonstrated that the zoning compliance plan that was reviewed by the city

00:25:47.600 --> 00:25:52.440
 does meet all of the requirements within the development code and happy to answer any questions.

00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:53.440
 So thank you.

00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:54.440
 Thank you.

00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.280
 Are there any questions for staff at this time?

00:25:58.280 --> 00:25:59.760
 No?

00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:01.440
 Okay.

00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:02.440
 Thank you very much.

00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:03.440
 You're welcome.

00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:04.440
 Yes.

00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.440
 Can I take a moment to get our time together?

00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:08.440
 Yes.

00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:09.440
 Are you getting visible signals?

00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.440
 He is.

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:11.440
 Okay.

00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:12.440
 Wonderful.

00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:13.440
 Yeah.

00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.440
 Okay.

00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.160
 So this is a public hearing, and I'd like to hear from one of the parties next.

00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:23.360
 Was there a particular order that you all had agreed to go in, or who would like to go

00:26:23.360 --> 00:26:24.360
 first?

00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:25.360
 The app, yeah?

00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:26.360
 The appellant?

00:26:26.360 --> 00:26:27.360
 Okay.

00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:35.280
 Sir, if you could step forward, state your name and address for the record and also kind

00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:38.880
 of your stake in this case, please.

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:39.880
 And then you'll get...

00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:44.800
 Each individual will get up to 10 minutes, and each party will get up to 20 minutes.

00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:48.960
 I'll try my best to take 10 whole minutes.

00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.000
 My name is James Perry.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.100
 I go by Jim.

00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:55.720
 I appreciate your time.

00:26:55.720 --> 00:27:00.160
 I thank you for letting me come and discuss this with you.

00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.880
 I want to start off what I'm saying is I'm not here to try to keep these people from

00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:05.880
 building apartments.

00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.240
 That's not my job.

00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:17.500
 What I'm here to do is ask that everybody play on a fair playing field, and to get right

00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:31.240
 into it, according to the requirements of the Denton Development Code, Section 2.4.5.E

00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:37.480
 shall be satisfied in order to obtain staff approval.

00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.880
 Now, you can approve staff approval whenever you want.

00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.120
 It happened to be in the first.

00:27:45.120 --> 00:27:56.800
 But they have not satisfied these things that they were just discussing prior to staff approval.

00:27:56.800 --> 00:28:06.880
 So all I'm asking is rather than just us allowing someone to come in and say, "Whoa, I've got

00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.320
 staff approval."

00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:10.960
 So all of these things were met.

00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.240
 No, they're not.

00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:25.160
 It shall be satisfied in order to obtain the staff approval, had been satisfied, satisfied,

00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:26.980
 and I'm satisfied.

00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:29.240
 The builder will be satisfied.

00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:34.960
 But to give the builder an opportunity to come in at a later date and say, "Oh, but

00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.840
 we already had an approval.

00:28:36.840 --> 00:28:38.800
 So we need to be able to mitigate this.

00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:43.360
 We need to be able to change that, and we need to be able to do this or that or the

00:28:43.360 --> 00:28:46.320
 other before final plaque."

00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:47.560
 That's neither here nor there.

00:28:47.560 --> 00:28:53.920
 You didn't have the approval according to the development code.

00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.040
 And that's all I'm asking for you to do.

00:28:57.040 --> 00:29:04.120
 Yes, I've pointed out several things in my appeal because there are several things that

00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:09.440
 meet in that needs to shall be met.

00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:17.920
 And so what I'm asking is that these things be met or you have something in writing that

00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:28.200
 says prior to you getting any final approval, this is going to be met.

00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.720
 Rather than say, "Oh, we already give you approval, so we'll let it go."

00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.680
 I was in the building industry.

00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:42.280
 I've seen many a neighborhood and I've seen trees taken down.

00:29:42.280 --> 00:29:50.480
 Yes, they're saying that they're going to leave 30% or 23% of the trees.

00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:51.480
 That's fine.

00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:52.480
 No problem.

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:55.160
 That's not going to happen.

00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:56.860
 There's going to be a reason.

00:29:56.860 --> 00:29:58.620
 They will waste that property.

00:29:58.620 --> 00:30:03.680
 It will not have any trees other than maybe two or three and the reason that those will

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:10.640
 be left is because there will be a danger of the construction people accidentally falling

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:16.640
 it on one of my neighbor's homes or mine.

00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:24.520
 So since that's the case, there is a renumeration that is going to have to be made to the city

00:30:24.520 --> 00:30:27.200
 of Denton for their tree fund.

00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:33.920
 I would like it to be noted that if they don't do what they're saying they're going to do

00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:44.000
 with this percentage, that they will pay the money prior to any approval to build.

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.080
 That isn't anything that I'm asking.

00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:49.120
 I'm not a tree hugger.

00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:50.720
 I like trees.

00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.920
 I got plenty of trees in my yard.

00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.200
 That's not the point.

00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:00.160
 The point is Mother Nature built these trees.

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:05.680
 It took her 50 to 75 years to build these trees.

00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:11.080
 Just because a developer wants to come in and knock them down so he can build this thing

00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:13.000
 is another thing.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:17.680
 Now on that fire code thing, it's great.

00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:19.720
 No problem.

00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.280
 There is going to be access.

00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:31.800
 But you better have the fire next to the buildings that it's facing because that's where the

00:31:31.800 --> 00:31:39.840
 26 foot access is and it will take every inch of that to be able to put out the stabilizers

00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:43.720
 for the fire truck to be able to get that ladder up on the thing.

00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:47.680
 If you have it on the backside, too bad.

00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:53.020
 There are people's lives that are in danger.

00:31:53.020 --> 00:32:00.520
 Now what I would like you to do is to give some serious consideration to the fact that

00:32:00.520 --> 00:32:06.800
 I'm not trying to prevent these people from building.

00:32:06.800 --> 00:32:16.620
 I'm just asking that there be some qualifications before we're going to allow this to go through.

00:32:16.620 --> 00:32:20.060
 You have to have this done.

00:32:20.060 --> 00:32:24.440
 Not for my rule, but for yours.

00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:36.440
 Your rule says shall be satisfied in order to obtain staff approval.

00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:40.720
 I don't see how clear that could get.

00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:49.360
 Shall be satisfied before staff approval.

00:32:49.360 --> 00:33:00.920
 Now as far as my neighborhood is concerned, I'm all for having a builder come in behind

00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:01.920
 me.

00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:06.540
 But they're not going to build a quality of building that you're thinking that they're

00:33:06.540 --> 00:33:08.720
 going to build.

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:15.480
 The streetscape, the view of this property that you're going to see that you see up there

00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:23.480
 in those drawings is facing a 40-year-old mall, the back of it.

00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:26.000
 The back of it has dumpsters.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:31.660
 It has places where trucks are going in and out and putting things.

00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:38.360
 They're saying it's going to be an upper end for the medical profession to be able to live.

00:33:38.360 --> 00:33:41.300
 My granddaughter is going to be a doctor.

00:33:41.300 --> 00:33:43.640
 She wouldn't live there.

00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:51.360
 Now I'm not saying that that's wrong, but I'm saying that let's look at this thing from

00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:59.720
 realism that is going to be a hard to lease area.

00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:01.240
 Very hard to lease.

00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:03.120
 I've leased places before.

00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:05.360
 I've sold places before.

00:34:05.360 --> 00:34:10.180
 Many of them for lots of very reputable builders.

00:34:10.180 --> 00:34:15.280
 That place would be a nightmare to me, but that is not my problem.

00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.280
 That's theirs.

00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:24.760
 I'm all for them having it as long as they do the shall be met.

00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:31.880
 If you hadn't put that in there, my case wouldn't be quite as strong, but since you did, do

00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.640
 what you said you would hold them to.

00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:36.140
 That's all I'm asking.

00:34:36.140 --> 00:34:41.920
 I thank you for your time.

00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:44.200
 Are there any questions for Mr. Perry before he ... Yep.

00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:46.240
 Mr. Perry, would you mind coming back briefly, please?

00:34:46.240 --> 00:34:47.240
 We've got a question.

00:34:47.240 --> 00:34:48.240
 Go ahead.

00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:52.560
 Hi, Mr. Perry.

00:34:52.560 --> 00:34:56.880
 I just want to make sure I'm understanding your case, so I just have a question or two

00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.880
 if that's all right.

00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:01.520
 First of all, I just want to clarify.

00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:07.400
 What you're saying is, all of the criteria that is presented in the development code,

00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.520
 there are some things that have not yet been satisfied, and so you feel that because they've

00:35:11.520 --> 00:35:17.440
 not yet been satisfied, that even the site plan should not have been approved.

00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.440
 Is that what I'm understanding?

00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:30.020
 Well, what I'm saying is, according to what your rule says, 2.4.5.E of the Denton Development

00:35:30.020 --> 00:35:38.280
 Code shall be satisfied prior to staff approval.

00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.600
 Now, the staff has approved it.

00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:43.040
 The first part, right?

00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:45.600
 It has had staff approval.

00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:46.600
 Yes, sir.

00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:53.240
 Now, I'm not a city engineer, and I'm not a city attorney, and I don't know what your

00:35:53.240 --> 00:36:01.540
 definition of staff approval means, but my definition of staff approval is when it's

00:36:01.540 --> 00:36:09.440
 approved by the staff, which for some reason, they're defending that recommendation and

00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:10.440
 that approval.

00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:11.440
 Sure.

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.440
 Okay.

00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:13.440
 Okay.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:14.440
 I appreciate that clarification.

00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:18.960
 So along those lines, I heard, I'm also not a developer, an engineer, anything like that.

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:25.500
 So I heard the International Fire Code, for example, has specific standards for the width

00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:31.740
 that they need to have a fire lane, and what I also heard just from a factual basis is

00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:40.080
 that the site plans exceed those recommendations, but you were describing how if there's a fire,

00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:45.180
 it should be on the front of the apartment complex, not the back, and so I just wonder,

00:36:45.180 --> 00:36:51.720
 what are your thoughts about the International Fire Code specifying a particular standard

00:36:51.720 --> 00:36:55.120
 if you're feeling like that standard is wrong or if you can just clarify?

00:36:55.120 --> 00:36:56.120
 No, no.

00:36:56.120 --> 00:36:57.120
 The standard is right.

00:36:57.120 --> 00:36:58.120
 Okay.

00:36:58.120 --> 00:37:01.600
 However, there are two types of fire trucks that come.

00:37:01.600 --> 00:37:09.000
 They're average in width of 10 feet, but when you stick 16 feet of stay insurance out beside

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:18.080
 the fire truck, it just became 26 feet that can only be done on the front of that building.

00:37:18.080 --> 00:37:21.020
 The back of the building only has 24.

00:37:21.020 --> 00:37:22.020
 Okay.

00:37:22.020 --> 00:37:23.020
 That's my concern.

00:37:23.020 --> 00:37:24.020
 Okay.

00:37:24.020 --> 00:37:25.020
 Thank you.

00:37:25.020 --> 00:37:26.020
 Thank you.

00:37:26.020 --> 00:37:27.020
 Yeah.

00:37:27.020 --> 00:37:28.020
 I'm just understanding.

00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:29.020
 I appreciate it.

00:37:29.020 --> 00:37:33.960
 Are there any questions for Mr. Perry?

00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:34.960
 I have a question.

00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.440
 Can I ask a question of staff at this moment because he was talking about trees?

00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:41.000
 Am I out of order for that?

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:45.360
 There's a general question period after-

00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:46.360
 All right.

00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:47.360
 I'll save my questions.

00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:52.240
 I'll probably have more questions by the time you get up there anyway, so okay.

00:37:52.240 --> 00:37:54.360
 Mr. Perry, were there other people in your party?

00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:55.360
 Yes.

00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:56.360
 Okay.

00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:57.360
 Thank you.

00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:58.360
 Please take the stand.

00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.240
 If you wouldn't mind stating your name and your address, please, for the record, and

00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:01.240
 how much time-

00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:04.240
 Let me get just a moment to set up, if I may.

00:38:04.240 --> 00:38:05.240
 Sure.

00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:06.240
 All right.

00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:09.240
 You have 10 minutes.

00:38:09.240 --> 00:38:13.280
 Is this where you want your material passed up?

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:14.280
 Pardon me?

00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.280
 Is this where you want your material passed up?

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.280
 Yes.

00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:17.280
 Please.

00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:18.280
 Please.

00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:19.280
 Please.

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:20.280
 If we could do that ahead of time, that'd be really nice.

00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:21.280
 By the way, thank you for your time.

00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:22.280
 I appreciate it.

00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:23.280
 Thank you.

00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:46.360
 Whenever you're ready, sir, you'll have 10 minutes.

00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:47.360
 Thank you.

00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:48.360
 My name is Jerry Drake.

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.400
 I live at 2504 Shiloh Road.

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:54.200
 I am Mr. Perry's neighbor.

00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:59.120
 Some of you may know me from 31 years with the city attorney's office.

00:38:59.120 --> 00:39:05.120
 My house is not within the 200 feet, so I could not be an appellant in this case, but

00:39:05.120 --> 00:39:10.880
 I would have been if I could, and I can be a witness.

00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:16.760
 Let me just go through what the meat of this is.

00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.400
 The staff has prepared, well, Mr. Perry prepared an appeal.

00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:25.460
 That's exhibit number five that the city's already given you.

00:39:25.460 --> 00:39:34.000
 The staff has done a reply at exhibit two, and we've done a reply to the staff reply.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:40.040
 That's exhibit 18, and that's in that packet that has just been given out to you.

00:39:40.040 --> 00:39:46.640
 So where the staff has gone through and replied to certain parts of the appeal, we've replied

00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:52.120
 to certain parts of the staff reply, and I know that you haven't had a chance to read

00:39:52.120 --> 00:40:00.640
 exhibit 18, and I just want to tell you that my biggest concern here is the unqualified

00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:06.960
 approval of the zoning compliance plan, and Mr. Perry alluded to that already.

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.760
 Now, why is that a problem?

00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:16.480
 If you have exhibit 18 handy, I invite you to turn to the last page of it.

00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:18.920
 Elements of staff approval are mandatory.

00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:20.920
 It says shall.

00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:26.720
 Maybe they get reviewed later also, as in at the time of planning, but they shall be

00:40:26.720 --> 00:40:30.360
 reviewed now as a condition of approval.

00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:37.360
 That's the plain English mandate of counsel to staff, and a lot of people talk about legal

00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.320
 ease and about how attorneys get too complicated.

00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:49.520
 This is plain English here that I'm talking about, and if these are reviewed later at

00:40:49.520 --> 00:40:57.280
 the time of planning, that's fine, but 245E says they get reviewed now also, and that's

00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:01.360
 the mandate of the counsel.

00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:11.120
 I know the staff in their exhibit number two says that the review will be at the required

00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:13.520
 level of detail for submittal.

00:41:13.520 --> 00:41:15.680
 That doesn't mean they get to delay it.

00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:22.000
 That means that if they require a certain level of detail, that has to be satisfied.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.600
 What level is required by 245E4?

00:41:24.600 --> 00:41:31.080
 It says shall comply unless the standard is to be lawfully modified.

00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:36.160
 Submit number four is the submittal.

00:41:36.160 --> 00:41:42.880
 Where in the application to lawfully modify the standard, and where is the status of that?

00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:52.320
 Where does it say in there, where is the application to modify the fire access or all these other

00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:53.320
 things?

00:41:53.320 --> 00:42:01.960
 If they're going to rely upon the language there at 245E4B, then that application should

00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:03.960
 be already here.

00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:11.080
 245F I think is important because it allows the imposition of conditions qualifying this

00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:12.080
 approval.

00:42:12.080 --> 00:42:15.720
 Perhaps staff could have gotten where they wanted to get it if they had put some conditions

00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:16.840
 on here.

00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:24.240
 If they had said, we're approving this conditioned upon you demonstrating that you have this

00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:31.320
 secondary fire access, and maybe conditioning it at a certain point in time, but they didn't.

00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:35.120
 They gave an unqualified approval.

00:42:35.120 --> 00:42:44.400
 If you look at the approval that they gave, there's nothing on there that in any way qualifies

00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:45.400
 this approval.

00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:49.640
 Let me turn to that real quick.

00:42:49.640 --> 00:42:52.160
 That's exhibit number three.

00:42:52.160 --> 00:42:56.480
 There's not one single condition or qualification stated on this.

00:42:56.480 --> 00:43:01.920
 It just says it is approved.

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:09.120
 There's nothing that says that, oh, well, we're going to wait until planning to look

00:43:09.120 --> 00:43:10.120
 at this other issue.

00:43:10.120 --> 00:43:12.880
 It just says it is approved.

00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:16.480
 What does it mean in plain English to get unqualified approval of an application?

00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:21.360
 It means that all necessary elements have been satisfied.

00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.280
 Otherwise it'd be a denial, or at least a qualified approval.

00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:28.160
 Exhibit three is neither.

00:43:28.160 --> 00:43:33.040
 Under Texas law, developers are allowed to rely upon prior permit approvals.

00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:34.880
 Let me say that again.

00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:43.680
 Under Texas law, developers are entitled to rely upon prior permit approvals.

00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:50.800
 If this is approved and not challenged, there is a very distinct possibility that the developer

00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:56.040
 will assert that they've already met these standards, they've already met these requirements.

00:43:56.040 --> 00:43:57.160
 How do we know this?

00:43:57.160 --> 00:44:04.520
 Because your permit was granted without any kind of qualification.

00:44:04.520 --> 00:44:07.080
 At Platting, the only issues comply with the code.

00:44:07.080 --> 00:44:08.120
 There's no public hearing.

00:44:08.120 --> 00:44:11.000
 Our neighborhood doesn't matter at the time of Platting.

00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:15.440
 What's going to happen if the plan is later denied on one of the grounds that's required

00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.600
 for this approval?

00:44:17.600 --> 00:44:19.720
 That's a rhetorical question.

00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:22.740
 If we don't speak up now, our opportunity is gone.

00:44:22.740 --> 00:44:25.440
 This plan is dangerous.

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:29.920
 I'm really not going to talk about trees or things like that.

00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:34.620
 I'm talking about fire access and people who could lose their lives.

00:44:34.620 --> 00:44:41.320
 Why is Denton splitting hairs in the fire code to reach the barest minimum of fire safety

00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:43.840
 issues?

00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.400
 Don't we deserve better than that?

00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:53.960
 Why is it that we picked the minimum for aerial access of 26 feet and then said, "You've got

00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:55.880
 to share that with all the other traffic."

00:44:55.880 --> 00:45:04.480
 408 cars trying to flee a burning building at the same time, is that unimpeded access

00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:06.120
 as the fire code requires?

00:45:06.120 --> 00:45:09.640
 I don't think it is.

00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:17.140
 Now, the other thing we mentioned is that the plan does not minimize adverse impacts

00:45:17.140 --> 00:45:18.240
 upon our neighborhood.

00:45:18.240 --> 00:45:19.900
 How do we know this?

00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:23.720
 This is one area where I strongly disagree with something that the city representative

00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:24.720
 said.

00:45:24.720 --> 00:45:26.840
 That the SUP is relevant.

00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:32.800
 It's relevant to show that what was offered up before was feasible.

00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:40.960
 If there is a feasible step that could be made to reduce the impacts upon our neighborhood,

00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:46.720
 then anything less than that is not minimizing the adverse impact.

00:45:46.720 --> 00:45:48.560
 That's what minimize means.

00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:56.480
 It means there is nothing that more strongly reduces the impact than what was provided.

00:45:56.480 --> 00:46:03.120
 Obviously, that's not the case because the SUP says there is.

00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:04.920
 So what do we do now?

00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:06.880
 We could reverse the approval.

00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.120
 Both PNZ and council paved that path already with the SUP.

00:46:11.120 --> 00:46:14.120
 They saw the fire access was inadequate.

00:46:14.120 --> 00:46:23.640
 They saw these other issues, and bear in mind, staff recommended that SUP before it was rejected

00:46:23.640 --> 00:46:26.240
 by council and PNZ.

00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:31.280
 So the staff recommendation doesn't mean anything here.

00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.480
 We've got prior applications on this very same site that were turned down for that very

00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:43.040
 same reason, for inadequate access, people not having a second way out.

00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:45.240
 Where is that easement?

00:46:45.240 --> 00:46:49.400
 Where is that permission from Brookhaven?

00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:50.680
 Why don't we have it now?

00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:57.060
 Why wasn't that required before this approval was given?

00:46:57.060 --> 00:46:58.060
 This is awkward.

00:46:58.060 --> 00:47:02.340
 Staff, our friends and colleagues, I've known Haley throughout.

00:47:02.340 --> 00:47:05.840
 She's been transparent with me, and I hope she recognized I've been transparent with

00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.840
 her.

00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:11.240
 I think if she were here tonight, she would say so.

00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:13.280
 We have to challenge this.

00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:20.760
 It's our only opportunity to do so, because if we don't, then the developer will be entitled

00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:25.600
 to rely upon this prior approval.

00:47:25.600 --> 00:47:28.360
 What got approved?

00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:35.540
 Everything that wasn't conditioned in Exhibit 3, and there's no conditions in Exhibit 3.

00:47:35.540 --> 00:47:43.080
 This might just be a situation where 245 should be amended, and maybe what the staff wants

00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:48.440
 245 to say isn't what it actually does say.

00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:53.080
 This may be something that they need to take a look at.

00:47:53.080 --> 00:47:55.680
 Thanks so much.

00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:56.680
 Thank you, Mr. Drake.

00:47:56.680 --> 00:48:02.560
 Are there any questions for Mr. Drake at this time?

00:48:02.560 --> 00:48:08.560
 Thank you for your time.

00:48:08.560 --> 00:48:13.480
 Who would like to go next?

00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.640
 There's a whole order, like a batting order.

00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.640
 Thank you.

00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:18.640
 Where is that page?

00:48:18.640 --> 00:48:19.640
 This one.

00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:20.640
 Thank you.

00:48:20.640 --> 00:48:21.640
 Two more.

00:48:21.640 --> 00:48:35.680
 It's a whole lot of pages.

00:48:35.680 --> 00:48:42.400
 Thanks for your time.

00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:43.400
 Got it.

00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:44.400
 Okay.

00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:45.400
 Thank you.

00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:46.400
 All right.

00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:48.240
 So you must be the property owner.

00:48:48.240 --> 00:48:49.240
 Yes.

00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:51.000
 And your name and address for the record, please?

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:58.200
 That's Vanzant 512 West Hickory in Denton, Texas, and I do represent the owner of Pinnacle

00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:04.600
 Development, represented by Ms. Angel Liu, who is here tonight, and our engineering team,

00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:07.520
 McAdams Engineering, Josh Barton and Randy Rivera.

00:49:07.520 --> 00:49:12.080
 They've done most of the hard work on this, many applications that have come before the

00:49:12.080 --> 00:49:13.520
 city on this.

00:49:13.520 --> 00:49:17.800
 And thank you again, Madam Chairman and Board, for being here tonight and for Haley's hard

00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:21.620
 work in preparing the material and the staff's work in presenting it.

00:49:21.620 --> 00:49:27.160
 We appreciate getting this meeting called together as quickly as they can.

00:49:27.160 --> 00:49:30.200
 Of course, time is of the essence to us.

00:49:30.200 --> 00:49:36.320
 We came to the city going on two years now, November of 2020, with our first pre-development

00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:37.320
 meeting.

00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:43.280
 And again, I've been a friend and colleague of Jerry's for many years, so I have a lot

00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:44.280
 of respect for him.

00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:50.720
 And I'd say I'll only bring up the SUP insofar as Mr. Drake did, that you'll indicate and

00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:56.440
 I'll just, rather than try to remember what occurred at the meeting back in October, I'll

00:49:56.440 --> 00:50:04.200
 just read quickly what was in your agenda material, where Haley summarized that said,

00:50:04.200 --> 00:50:09.920
 with the SUP request, an approximately 60-foot building height was proposed to allow for

00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:16.280
 more compact building footprint and a greater preservation of the existing trees on site.

00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.360
 I wish Mr. Drake had supported it that night.

00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:25.520
 He didn't, along with a good portion of that neighborhood, but as far as attempted mitigation,

00:50:25.520 --> 00:50:32.000
 we did attempt that back in October of last year and failed.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:38.280
 That's why we're here tonight with the zoning rights that we had on the property previously.

00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:44.520
 So that was the reason for, that's the only context in which I'll bring up the SUP, and

00:50:44.520 --> 00:50:50.980
 as Mr. McDonald said, it's not relevant.

00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:59.000
 Also the appellant mentioned, quoted the staff approval standard.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:02.880
 Staff approval is given at different phases of any development.

00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:07.260
 And I think it's inaccurate to say that there are no conditions on the zoning compliance

00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:11.560
 letter that we received because it clearly states that we will have to go through preliminary

00:51:11.560 --> 00:51:15.440
 plotting process, civil engineering plans, and final plan process.

00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:19.960
 And those are all going to by virtue of the documents that were submitted as part of the

00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:25.840
 zoning compliance plan, that is going to require two points of access.

00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:30.160
 We're going to build the fire lanes just like everybody else in the city is required to

00:51:30.160 --> 00:51:31.160
 build.

00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:36.680
 We haven't asked for any variances on this as far as I know, throughout the entire process.

00:51:36.680 --> 00:51:38.760
 We're certainly not asking for any tonight.

00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:44.400
 We're asking that we be allowed to build the use that we have for that property under the

00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:47.480
 city standards that are in place at the time we applied.

00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:49.360
 That's simply all we're asking.

00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:53.520
 I think the city did a very exhaustive job of going through while all those standards

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:54.520
 were met.

00:51:54.520 --> 00:52:01.100
 But I did want to be here just to, Juan, thank you, and to let you know that obviously there's

00:52:01.100 --> 00:52:07.120
 an, though we're not strictly a party to this, there's an affected landowner who's, you know,

00:52:07.120 --> 00:52:13.860
 in this volatile market, delays are critical, timing is critical, and, you know, we're affected

00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:17.960
 by delays, and we appreciate your consideration tonight.

00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:24.200
 So that's all I, we're available for any questions, but I don't have any additional speakers for

00:52:24.200 --> 00:52:25.200
 our side.

00:52:25.200 --> 00:52:26.200
 Madam Chairman, unless you have questions.

00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:27.200
 Thank you.

00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:28.200
 Are there any questions?

00:52:28.200 --> 00:52:29.200
 Okay.

00:52:29.200 --> 00:52:30.200
 Thank you.

00:52:30.200 --> 00:52:31.200
 Oh, sorry.

00:52:31.200 --> 00:52:34.200
 Did you have a question?

00:52:34.200 --> 00:52:35.680
 Oh, no.

00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:36.680
 Sorry.

00:52:36.680 --> 00:52:37.680
 Okay.

00:52:37.680 --> 00:52:38.680
 Okay.

00:52:38.680 --> 00:52:39.680
 Got it.

00:52:39.680 --> 00:52:40.680
 Thank you.

00:52:40.680 --> 00:52:41.680
 Appreciate it.

00:52:41.680 --> 00:52:42.680
 Thank you.

00:52:42.680 --> 00:52:43.680
 Okay.

00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:48.840
 We are now entering the rebuttal phase.

00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:52.940
 And so, Mr. Perry, that would be your party.

00:52:52.940 --> 00:52:57.000
 If you'd like to speak for another two minutes to clear up anything, or Mr. Drake, since you're

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.720
 part of that party as well, you'll each have two minutes.

00:53:00.720 --> 00:53:01.720
 Madam Chair, can we have the privilege of last rebuttal?

00:53:01.720 --> 00:53:02.720
 This is where the embeller...

00:53:02.720 --> 00:53:03.720
 Sorry.

00:53:03.720 --> 00:53:04.720
 Come up to the speakers so we can save it for the record.

00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.720
 Sorry.

00:53:05.720 --> 00:53:06.720
 How does that...

00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:29.860
 Okay.

00:53:29.860 --> 00:53:33.960
 So my understanding, Mr. Drake, is that this game plan was presented to all parties prior

00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:37.240
 to the meeting with approval from all parties.

00:53:37.240 --> 00:53:38.240
 So we're gonna stay in order.

00:53:38.240 --> 00:53:39.240
 No, ma'am.

00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:41.040
 It was not approved by all parties.

00:53:41.040 --> 00:53:46.520
 And I specifically addressed this question to Ms. Zagurski by email.

00:53:46.520 --> 00:53:53.800
 And typically in an appeal, if you...

00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:58.960
 We need six votes here out of six to overturn a staff decision.

00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:02.200
 That's a big burden.

00:54:02.200 --> 00:54:11.320
 And it's only fair that we follow the traditional standard in an appeal that the party with

00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:16.840
 that burden of proof have the final rebuttal.

00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:26.960
 Okay, all right.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:34.080
 So staff has indicated they'd be open to this if...

00:54:34.080 --> 00:54:35.080
 Yes, ma'am.

00:54:35.080 --> 00:54:36.080
 Absolutely.

00:54:36.080 --> 00:54:37.080
 We're meatable.

00:54:37.080 --> 00:54:38.080
 And the...

00:54:38.080 --> 00:54:39.080
 Yes.

00:54:39.080 --> 00:54:40.080
 Property owner, are you okay with that too?

00:54:40.080 --> 00:54:41.080
 Yeah?

00:54:41.080 --> 00:54:42.080
 Okay.

00:54:42.080 --> 00:54:43.080
 So I'm not sure who goes next then.

00:54:43.080 --> 00:54:44.080
 So we've got our rebuttal.

00:54:44.080 --> 00:54:45.080
 Okay.

00:54:45.080 --> 00:54:46.080
 That's fine.

00:54:46.080 --> 00:54:47.080
 Okay.

00:54:47.080 --> 00:54:48.080
 Scott.

00:54:48.080 --> 00:54:49.080
 All right.

00:54:49.080 --> 00:54:50.080
 Sorry, Chair.

00:54:50.080 --> 00:54:51.080
 Thank you.

00:54:51.080 --> 00:54:52.080
 Go ahead.

00:54:52.080 --> 00:54:53.080
 Okay.

00:54:53.080 --> 00:55:04.200
 I have just a couple of points and I guess primarily I want to start out with the shall

00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:11.080
 as Mr. Drake had outlined that shall means that we shall.

00:55:11.080 --> 00:55:18.520
 And I will specify that no zoning compliance plan or very few zoning compliance plans if

00:55:18.520 --> 00:55:24.200
 any could be approved in the city of Denton ever if we lend ourselves to strict adherence

00:55:24.200 --> 00:55:26.040
 of shall.

00:55:26.040 --> 00:55:30.160
 This zoning compliance plan could never be built because there would never be two points

00:55:30.160 --> 00:55:31.260
 of access.

00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:33.920
 There wouldn't be fire department access.

00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:48.560
 So the second bullet, there's point A and point B, excuse me, A speaks to that they

00:55:48.560 --> 00:55:51.440
 shall be in compliance with the DDC.

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:56.440
 The second point, and I want to read that clearly, compliance with these standards is

00:55:56.440 --> 00:56:01.360
 applied at the level of detail required for the subject submittal.

00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:05.960
 So it's important to note, as I illustrated in the beginning, the outline for the typical

00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:13.780
 development review process is that we take these in order and someone cannot proceed

00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:18.080
 to the next step without going through the process.

00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:22.940
 No one would ever be able to build, even if they are vested in something with an approval,

00:56:22.940 --> 00:56:26.960
 the approval won't get them anywhere if they can't get through the preliminary plat, the

00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:29.360
 civil engineering plants or anything else.

00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:35.580
 So the shall would prevent any zoning compliance plan on any green field development from being

00:56:35.580 --> 00:56:38.760
 built because there may not be access at that point in time.

00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:43.200
 There would not be a roadway for fire department access to be provided with.

00:56:43.200 --> 00:56:45.400
 So they're proposing to build that.

00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:46.960
 We agree to that.

00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:48.300
 That's what's shown on the plans.

00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:50.080
 That's what we expect on a preliminary plat.

00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:52.380
 That's what we expect on civil engineering plans.

00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:55.700
 So we say in context, it meets the intent of the code.

00:56:55.700 --> 00:56:56.700
 We agree with that.

00:56:56.700 --> 00:57:01.800
 That is the purpose and that overview, that 30,000 foot view, and as we get into the details

00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.500
 and greater portions of that.

00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:09.380
 I also want to add to keep in mind that we have professional staff that have been doing

00:57:09.380 --> 00:57:15.600
 their profession and those reviews go through our engineering, our fire, our planning, our

00:57:15.600 --> 00:57:18.440
 building a variety.

00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:19.440
 Thank you.

00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:20.440
 Thank you.

00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:21.440
 Time is up.

00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:22.440
 This is so messy.

00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:27.040
 Let's finish the bottles and then do the rest.

00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:28.040
 Yeah.

00:57:28.040 --> 00:57:29.040
 That's what I was thinking too.

00:57:29.040 --> 00:57:30.040
 Right.

00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:31.040
 Go ahead.

00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:32.040
 Okay.

00:57:32.040 --> 00:57:33.040
 Again, Tina Fergans, Deputy Director of Development and Services.

00:57:33.040 --> 00:57:37.960
 So Mr. Drake makes an interesting point and I can't disagree with him more with respect

00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:43.120
 to Texas law and regarding under Texas law, developers are entitled to rely upon prior

00:57:43.120 --> 00:57:44.120
 approvals.

00:57:44.120 --> 00:57:47.800
 He's absolutely correct because the zoning compliance plan allows the developer rely

00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:51.640
 upon approval and that zoning compliance plan vests the development rights.

00:57:51.640 --> 00:57:55.280
 So if the developer cannot meet all of the conditions and all of the notations contained

00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:57.880
 on the plan, then he's not going to be able to approve his project.

00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:02.440
 So there's no disagreement on our part there because of the fact that we know that that

00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:05.600
 zoning compliance plan vests development rights.

00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:09.540
 The other thing that I would like to point out is Mr. Perry was speaking to the fire

00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:14.160
 lanes and there was some question.

00:58:14.160 --> 00:58:17.200
 He made a statement regarding the placement with respect to the placement of the fire

00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:21.640
 lanes and so I just wanted to make sure that the Zoning Board of Adjustment understands

00:58:21.640 --> 00:58:25.840
 that here is the building footprint that is all shown here.

00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:30.240
 The fire lane is adjacent to the building for majority of the building.

00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:34.040
 The one exception would be there's a row of parking that's right here near the leasing

00:58:34.040 --> 00:58:35.040
 center.

00:58:35.040 --> 00:58:38.600
 But otherwise, this entire building is encapsulated by the fire lane system.

00:58:38.600 --> 00:58:40.840
 The fire lane system, they're 24 feet in width.

00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:44.480
 We actually increased our standards subsequent to this plan being approved.

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.780
 Again, our standard of the time was 20 minutes.

00:58:46.780 --> 00:58:52.160
 This plan has 24 foot fire lanes on three sides, 26 foot width on the fourth side.

00:58:52.160 --> 00:58:53.160
 So it exceeded.

00:58:53.160 --> 00:58:57.440
 The reason why we have the wider fire lane widths is to be able to accommodate fire apparatus

00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:02.220
 being able to park within the fire lane, place their outriggers out, and then still allow

00:59:02.220 --> 00:59:04.040
 for an ambulance to pass by.

00:59:04.040 --> 00:59:08.400
 If an ambulance can pass by the fire engine or the fire truck with their ladder extended,

00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.360
 then I can show you a typical vehicle can do so as well.

00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:13.360
 So thank you.

00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:19.320
 We're going to hold our questions until after the rebuttal phase.

00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.120
 Mr. Van Zandt, did you want to take the stand one more time?

00:59:22.120 --> 00:59:23.120
 No.

00:59:23.120 --> 00:59:24.120
 Okay.

00:59:24.120 --> 00:59:25.120
 Thank you.

00:59:25.120 --> 00:59:26.120
 All right.

00:59:26.120 --> 00:59:31.280
 Then it's back to the appellant party.

00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:33.920
 You'll each have two minutes.

00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:37.160
 No problem.

00:59:37.160 --> 00:59:40.760
 I appreciate what you're saying.

00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:50.760
 I just think that it's not feasible to do things sometimes in an order when you've got

00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:55.160
 written things of what you have to do.

00:59:55.160 --> 00:59:59.240
 When you have it in writing, you have to follow the writing.

00:59:59.240 --> 01:00:03.320
 But let's just leave that for a moment and let me just say one other thing because there's

01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:08.880
 something that's far more important, and that's people's lives.

01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:15.240
 You've got 400 cars, a fire breaks out, people are scrambling.

01:00:15.240 --> 01:00:22.660
 The target people are young, they're frightened, they're trying to get out.

01:00:22.660 --> 01:00:26.240
 They're not worried about anybody but themselves.

01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:36.240
 Then you've got a neighboring senior citizen home that those people are curious, and they're

01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:39.960
 going to walk out there to see what's going on.

01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:50.600
 Now with all that happening, that is dangerous, extremely dangerous, and those people's lives

01:00:50.600 --> 01:00:53.520
 are up to this group.

01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:58.400
 That's what I've got to say.

01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:14.360
 Let's see, is the overhead document cam working by chance?

01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:17.600
 There's a modification of a slide that I put up for the SUP.

01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:21.240
 It's modified to show the current plan.

01:01:21.240 --> 01:01:26.600
 It has a number of quotes from the fire code, "A fire lane is not necessarily intended for

01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:30.080
 vehicular traffic other than fire apparatus."

01:01:30.080 --> 01:01:35.360
 I think that's particularly true when you're at the bare minimum, and I think that I can

01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:39.960
 illustrate that here with this D105.2.

01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:49.280
 Aerial fire apparatus row shall have a minimum unobstructed width of 26 feet.

01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:54.640
 How can it be unobstructed if it's shared with vehicles that are fleeing a fire?

01:01:54.640 --> 01:01:55.960
 It can't.

01:01:55.960 --> 01:02:03.000
 That's why you need to have a separate access for the people going in and out from what

01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:11.320
 the fire department has, or you need to have it wider than the bare minimum of 26 feet.

01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:13.580
 Why does it need to be 26 feet?

01:02:13.580 --> 01:02:18.200
 Because of the outriggers that come out from the fire engine, because of the ladder that

01:02:18.200 --> 01:02:20.960
 comes out perpendicular to the fire truck.

01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:28.600
 Again, please take a look at Exhibit 18 as you deliberate, because it has more of a point

01:02:28.600 --> 01:02:37.560
 by point rebuttal to what Mrs. Fergens had talked about, and I was not able to go into

01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:38.560
 that here.

01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:39.560
 Thanks so much.

01:02:39.560 --> 01:02:40.560
 Thank you.

01:02:40.560 --> 01:02:48.480
 I'd like to open up to the public hearing next.

01:02:48.480 --> 01:03:07.040
 We'll ask a few questions for the parties and then hear from the public.

01:03:07.040 --> 01:03:08.600
 I saw a couple of hands up earlier.

01:03:08.600 --> 01:03:11.380
 Are there questions thus far?

01:03:11.380 --> 01:03:19.440
 I think this will be either for Scott or Tina, I'm not totally sure.

01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:22.420
 I've got two separate questions.

01:03:22.420 --> 01:03:33.720
 One is related to Mr. Perry's comments earlier about the landscaping plan, which were about

01:03:33.720 --> 01:03:39.120
 the concern that at the stage with which the trees would be removed, that would have been

01:03:39.120 --> 01:03:44.040
 after construction would have commenced, which means things would have been improved, platted,

01:03:44.040 --> 01:03:45.300
 all the good things, right?

01:03:45.300 --> 01:03:52.200
 He mentioned that basically he feels that most of the trees will be removed and they

01:03:52.200 --> 01:03:56.000
 will have to be replaced and things won't happen according to the plan, that there's

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.880
 a renumeration plan or fee that has to be paid when that happens.

01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:05.720
 I'm assuming they would have to replace the trees that were removed that weren't part

01:04:05.720 --> 01:04:09.400
 of the plan and then they would have to pay the city, is that accurate?

01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:10.400
 Yes.

01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:14.160
 I'm going to probably just provide a very simple answer.

01:04:14.160 --> 01:04:18.920
 There is one tool in our toolbox that we use when necessary, and that's called a certificate

01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:20.640
 of occupancy.

01:04:20.640 --> 01:04:27.560
 No one can occupy or use a building until they comply with all the laws, rules, ordinances,

01:04:27.560 --> 01:04:30.520
 and then if we have any outstanding fees.

01:04:30.520 --> 01:04:35.960
 We do have the mechanism they could build a multimillion dollar project and not occupy

01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:42.360
 that project if they owe us money for let's say a tree that was cut down that they needed

01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:43.360
 to mitigate.

01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:44.360
 Got it.

01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:47.520
 There is a scenario in which all those trees could accidentally be knocked down, they would

01:04:47.520 --> 01:04:52.480
 all have to be replaced, and fees would have to be paid based on that meeting, the initial

01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:58.400
 aspect of the approved plan, but either way, according to our understanding, they would

01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:01.600
 still have to be there, they wouldn't be able to occupy, and they would have to pay the

01:05:01.600 --> 01:05:03.240
 city essentially.

01:05:03.240 --> 01:05:08.720
 Even a step further to that, that if that occurred during construction, we ultimately

01:05:08.720 --> 01:05:14.080
 would likely have a stop work that would be issued, so they wouldn't even get to the point

01:05:14.080 --> 01:05:16.720
 where they'd be ready for a certificate of occupancy.

01:05:16.720 --> 01:05:21.320
 We would recognize what that is and ultimately stop the project, and that happens on a regular

01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:22.320
 basis for us.

01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:23.320
 Got it.

01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:26.600
 I have a second part to that, but that's resolved in my mind.

01:05:26.600 --> 01:05:28.520
 The second piece is related to the fire code.

01:05:28.520 --> 01:05:33.880
 I know we've gone in depth as far as the minimum requirement being 20 feet, and in three areas

01:05:33.880 --> 01:05:36.040
 it's 24, one is 26.

01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:39.880
 I know this is not your exhibit, this is the appellant's exhibit, but in the code that

01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:44.880
 we just saw, which is the 2012 international fire code with reference to the 26 feet, is

01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:48.520
 that the correct code that we're talking about today, the exhibit that was just provided,

01:05:48.520 --> 01:05:49.960
 or is that a separate code?

01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:52.200
 I know it's not your exhibit.

01:05:52.200 --> 01:06:00.760
 They're really the same, the 2021, the 2012, as it relates to the fire code defining what

01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:06.520
 a fire lane is and what a fire apparatus road is, which includes all types and vehicular

01:06:06.520 --> 01:06:07.520
 traffic.

01:06:07.520 --> 01:06:08.520
 Okay.

01:06:08.520 --> 01:06:13.240
 The with scenario is that the older version of the code was at 20 feet.

01:06:13.240 --> 01:06:18.640
 We have now advanced that to 24 feet, and that's what the applicant had proposed on

01:06:18.640 --> 01:06:20.520
 their plans in advance of.

01:06:20.520 --> 01:06:22.440
 Understood.

01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:23.440
 Thank you.

01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:24.440
 Okay.

01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:25.440
 Thank you.

01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:26.440
 Any other questions?

01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:27.440
 Jennifer, go ahead.

01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:30.320
 Yes, I'm not sure who to address this to, perhaps the appellant, because-

01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:31.320
 The mic.

01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:32.320
 Oh, yes.

01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.920
 It's on, but I'm just not facing it.

01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:44.680
 There's mention on the adapted slide from your slide, but with appellant's adaptations

01:06:44.680 --> 01:06:50.280
 of a locked gate and it not being appropriate access in an emergency, and I'm not sure who

01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:51.280
 was addressing that.

01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:57.840
 It hadn't come up as yet, what that means and why that's there.

01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:02.560
 So was this in relation to the specific use permit plan or the zoning compliance plan

01:07:02.560 --> 01:07:03.560
 with the exhibit being-

01:07:03.560 --> 01:07:07.920
 This is actually in perhaps better addressed to the appellant to explain.

01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.920
 Okay.

01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:09.920
 Okay.

01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:10.920
 Or-

01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:16.520
 We'll put that back on the overhead, please.

01:07:16.520 --> 01:07:18.240
 What is this in reference to?

01:07:18.240 --> 01:07:24.400
 So it is, so as it relates to, so I see on the exhibit that the appellant has made a

01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:27.960
 reference to a locked gate is not appropriate access in emergency.

01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:33.120
 So here in Denton, we do allow for a second point of ingress egress for emergency purposes

01:07:33.120 --> 01:07:35.680
 only to be gated.

01:07:35.680 --> 01:07:38.600
 They typically have a NOC system that's located on it.

01:07:38.600 --> 01:07:44.760
 So if the fire apparatus does have to enter the property from that particular location,

01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.380
 and with the NOC system, there are a variety of tools that can be used.

01:07:48.380 --> 01:07:51.440
 One has an Opticom component, which is a little bit more advanced.

01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:55.120
 Others are a NOC SPOC that has a key within it that allows the fire department to be able

01:07:55.120 --> 01:07:56.120
 to access it.

01:07:56.120 --> 01:07:59.400
 But that is a common practice, not only in Denton, but in many cities throughout the

01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:00.400
 region.

01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:01.400
 Okay.

01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:02.400
 Thank you.

01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:03.400
 Go ahead.

01:08:03.400 --> 01:08:04.400
 Another question.

01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:17.320
 This is for staff, so you walked through the six stages, are we in the first stage, right?

01:08:17.320 --> 01:08:18.320
 Yes, sir.

01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:25.560
 And so I think, Mr. McDonnell, you mentioned that the, you know, the city has the right

01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:28.780
 to withhold occupancy rights.

01:08:28.780 --> 01:08:33.920
 Are there other remedies, you know, if they don't get, if they don't get anything from

01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:36.520
 the assisted living facility for that second easement?

01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:37.520
 Are there?

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:38.520
 Absolutely.

01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:44.560
 So, so approving this one piece of it says, on the basis of what you've provided us, that

01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:48.220
 you're going to provide this access, you can move to the next phase.

01:08:48.220 --> 01:08:52.560
 So as you see on the screen, you have number two, which is the preliminary plat, and so

01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:53.700
 on and so forth.

01:08:53.700 --> 01:08:59.080
 So at whatever point that does not occur, this project will cease because they can't

01:08:59.080 --> 01:09:01.560
 get the next level of approvals.

01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:05.040
 It's not far beyond from the certificate of occupancy.

01:09:05.040 --> 01:09:06.360
 Right.

01:09:06.360 --> 01:09:11.560
 So I mean, ultimately, building permit, like nothing starts until we've gone through these

01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:12.560
 five stages.

01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:13.560
 Correct.

01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:20.720
 We have to have a final plat, which would then in turn have all of those easements reserved.

01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:24.480
 And I would add on the final plat, it typically makes reference to, if there are any easements

01:09:24.480 --> 01:09:28.600
 that are dedicated offsite by separate instrument, then it provides the volume and page recordation

01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:30.240
 information associated with it.

01:09:30.240 --> 01:09:34.860
 So if anybody wanted to be able to verify whether or not that easement existed, and again,

01:09:34.860 --> 01:09:40.700
 this is whether it's access, it's sewer drainage, water, we would have the volume and page recordation

01:09:40.700 --> 01:09:45.380
 information so that they could go find that easement that was recorded or the separately

01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:50.760
 recorded document.

01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:53.760
 Any other questions?

01:09:53.760 --> 01:10:02.800
 Thank you.

01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:04.200
 Sir you've already had an opportunity to speak.

01:10:04.200 --> 01:10:06.320
 I do apologize, but this is a public hearing.

01:10:06.320 --> 01:10:09.200
 So I'd like to open the floor for anyone who hasn't had an opportunity to speak yet, if

01:10:09.200 --> 01:10:19.600
 you'd like to address the board with any questions, comments, concerns, you will have three minutes.

01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:22.680
 And sir, I don't think you were here when I saw everyone in.

01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:26.040
 You used to go ahead and step up, but I do need to swear you in because of our-

01:10:26.040 --> 01:10:27.040
 I got here late.

01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:28.040
 Yeah, no, no worries.

01:10:28.040 --> 01:10:29.040
 Well, I heard the door was locked, so no worries.

01:10:29.040 --> 01:10:31.720
 So if you wouldn't mind raising your hand.

01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:35.400
 Under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you

01:10:35.400 --> 01:10:39.840
 provide or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct, to the

01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:41.480
 best of your knowledge and ability?

01:10:41.480 --> 01:10:43.000
 If so, please answer, I do.

01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:44.000
 I do.

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:45.000
 Thank you.

01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:46.840
 And your name and address for the record, and you'll have three minutes.

01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:47.840
 My name is Ken Gold.

01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:54.840
 I live at 2512 Natchez Trace, a backup against this property here.

01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:57.480
 I just got a couple of things I wanted to stress.

01:10:57.480 --> 01:11:00.440
 First off, this is a very special piece of property to begin with.

01:11:00.440 --> 01:11:05.400
 If you look at the overhead, this used to be part of a cross-tumbler upland habitat

01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:07.920
 associated with the Bucky's ESA.

01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:08.920
 It's very fragile.

01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:14.680
 It contains a lot of wildlife, a lot of big post oaks, blackjack oaks.

01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:18.760
 It's a very special piece of property that ought not to be treated this poorly in the

01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:19.760
 way it's doing.

01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:25.040
 If you look at the drawings, there's a road that comes out of Bucky's that stops at that

01:11:25.040 --> 01:11:32.120
 pond for a reason, and yet it lines up strangely perfectly with the one coming out of this project.

01:11:32.120 --> 01:11:33.120
 There's a plan there.

01:11:33.120 --> 01:11:34.720
 They're going to go over that.

01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:43.240
 They're going to require some scrambling to do some new ESA work on that piece of property.

01:11:43.240 --> 01:11:50.200
 The other thing, and I'll be very brief and be done, that access to the West, the emergency

01:11:50.200 --> 01:11:56.240
 access, they've been working on this for two years, and they haven't got it yet.

01:11:56.240 --> 01:11:58.160
 There's some kind of a problem.

01:11:58.160 --> 01:12:02.520
 You would think a big project, this much money, all this time, they'd have got that right

01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:03.520
 off.

01:12:03.520 --> 01:12:06.200
 That's a critical, and it'll kill it if they don't get it.

01:12:06.200 --> 01:12:09.100
 You'd think they'd put some effort in that and actually deliver something.

01:12:09.100 --> 01:12:12.300
 You could see in writing that there is an agreement.

01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:13.300
 Believe there is.

01:12:13.300 --> 01:12:14.300
 They've never showed it to us.

01:12:14.300 --> 01:12:16.480
 I don't believe there is one, and that's all I got.

01:12:16.480 --> 01:12:17.480
 Thank you.

01:12:17.480 --> 01:12:19.800
 Please deny this, but approve the appeal.

01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:22.320
 Thank you, sir.

01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:25.120
 Do you want to speak?

01:12:25.120 --> 01:12:26.120
 Come on up.

01:12:26.120 --> 01:12:29.120
 I've got to swear you in too, Christine.

01:12:29.120 --> 01:12:32.320
 All right, ready?

01:12:32.320 --> 01:12:36.360
 Under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide

01:12:36.360 --> 01:12:39.400
 or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct to the best

01:12:39.400 --> 01:12:40.400
 of your knowledge and ability?

01:12:40.400 --> 01:12:41.400
 If so, please answer, "I do."

01:12:41.400 --> 01:12:42.400
 I do.

01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:43.400
 Thank you.

01:12:43.400 --> 01:12:44.400
 Your name and address for the record, please.

01:12:44.400 --> 01:12:47.840
 My name is Christine Bray, and I live at 1204 Cordell.

01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:53.840
 I guess I just have some confusion that I would maybe like one of you all to address.

01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:55.360
 I live on Cordell Street.

01:12:55.360 --> 01:12:57.480
 I've measured the width of the street myself.

01:12:57.480 --> 01:13:03.360
 It's 34 feet, and then there's side parking on each side, taking up about seven feet.

01:13:03.360 --> 01:13:08.560
 The street that I live on is 20 feet, which to me, you can't have more than 20 feet of

01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:15.080
 filing in that, I guess, so I guess I just was hoping for clarification on why, say,

01:13:15.080 --> 01:13:17.280
 20 feet is not enough in general.

01:13:17.280 --> 01:13:21.580
 Thank you, and staff had mentioned that, but you came in late, which is totally fine, so

01:13:21.580 --> 01:13:22.580
 if you wouldn't mind-

01:13:22.580 --> 01:13:23.580
 My tire got a flat on my bike.

01:13:23.580 --> 01:13:24.580
 No, no, it's good.

01:13:24.580 --> 01:13:25.580
 I'm glad you're here.

01:13:25.580 --> 01:13:26.580
 If you could answer that question for Christine, please.

01:13:26.580 --> 01:13:27.580
 I don't think this is part of this conversation this evening.

01:13:27.580 --> 01:13:28.580
 It's just another question, so staff can answer that off the record.

01:13:28.580 --> 01:13:29.580
 Am I correct in that?

01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:30.580
 Sounds good to me.

01:13:30.580 --> 01:13:31.580
 That's fair enough.

01:13:31.580 --> 01:13:38.880
 It has nothing to do with this project.

01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:39.880
 Sure.

01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:40.880
 That's fair enough.

01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:41.880
 Yeah.

01:13:41.880 --> 01:13:42.880
 Okay.

01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:43.880
 Thank you.

01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:44.880
 Thank you.

01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:49.600
 Is there anyone else from the public who'd like to speak before I close the public hearing?

01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:52.600
 Okay.

01:13:52.600 --> 01:13:56.640
 Hearing none, I'm gonna close the public hearing at 6.49 PM.

01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:57.640
 Yes.

01:13:57.640 --> 01:14:05.100
 Oh, I apologize, are there e-comment cards?

01:14:05.100 --> 01:14:08.200
 There are, Madam Chair, there are e-comment cards.

01:14:08.200 --> 01:14:09.200
 There are a total of-

01:14:09.200 --> 01:14:10.200
 I apologize.

01:14:10.200 --> 01:14:11.200
 I wasn't aware.

01:14:11.200 --> 01:14:12.200
 Sorry.

01:14:12.200 --> 01:14:13.200
 No, that is my fault.

01:14:13.200 --> 01:14:14.200
 Okay.

01:14:14.200 --> 01:14:16.920
 All eight are in, oppose the zoning compliance plan.

01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:17.920
 Okay.

01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:18.920
 Were there actual comments that could be read?

01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:19.920
 Yes, there are.

01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:20.920
 Great.

01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:21.920
 How long are they?

01:14:21.920 --> 01:14:22.920
 Great.

01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:33.840
 Okay, I do, I mean, y'all, we work for you.

01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:34.840
 So I do wanna read these.

01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:36.680
 They are fairly brief.

01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:42.880
 So the first one, Jennifer Danley Scott wrote, "The single entrance exit is a problem.

01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:46.640
 The emergency exit is into an assisted living parking lot.

01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:49.240
 In the event of a true emergency, the assisted living would evacuate.

01:14:49.240 --> 01:14:56.200
 A hundred cars unfamiliar with the route would likely hit a resident or staff member evacuating."

01:14:56.200 --> 01:14:58.760
 Robert Harris also opposes.

01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:03.640
 They write, "This proposal appears to have several drawbacks, including problematic access

01:15:03.640 --> 01:15:08.800
 for emergency vehicles, as well as for the residents of this proposed development.

01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:12.340
 Impacts on the Southridge Estates development, where I live, of a multi-story building at

01:15:12.340 --> 01:15:17.500
 higher elevation, from which residents would look down on the one- and two-story houses

01:15:17.500 --> 01:15:19.920
 without much screening via fences, trees or buffers.

01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:22.800
 Also it's questionable how attractive the living space behind stores of a strip mall

01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:24.800
 would be to residents."

01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:28.160
 Michelle Emick also opposes, "The developer is not a victim.

01:15:28.160 --> 01:15:30.200
 The property was landlocked in 1995.

01:15:30.200 --> 01:15:31.200
 City staff are not victims.

01:15:31.200 --> 01:15:36.480
 They sidestepped the checks and balances system developed to protect residents enacted in

01:15:36.480 --> 01:15:37.480
 bad faith.

01:15:37.480 --> 01:15:41.120
 Most of us have lived in multifamily housing at one time.

01:15:41.120 --> 01:15:44.240
 Did it ever occur to you that an apartment complex in which you were living was allowed

01:15:44.240 --> 01:15:46.880
 to be built without meeting fire safety codes?

01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:49.600
 It didn't occur to me and I can't believe that's what's being proposed now.

01:15:49.600 --> 01:15:51.720
 Residents deserve better than this."

01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:55.680
 Ken Gold also opposes, "Still no emergency easement after many months.

01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:59.680
 The tree mitigation plan is wholly inadequate for this upland habitat directly related to

01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:01.540
 the Buckees ESA.

01:16:01.540 --> 01:16:05.560
 They failed to minimize impacts to the surrounding property and abandoned many site design features

01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:06.560
 previously proposed.

01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:11.640
 A six-foot wooden fence is laughably inadequate between private homes and a three-story apartment

01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.640
 building so close to the property line."

01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:20.640
 Marilyn Newland opposes, "This project would be right next door to an assisted living facility

01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:24.480
 where senior citizens would be disturbed by the additional noise and problems that apartments

01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:25.480
 bring.

01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:29.000
 It has only one entrance and exit safety issue.

01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:34.360
 It would look directly into backyards of homes on Natchez Trace infringing on their privacy.

01:16:34.360 --> 01:16:38.040
 The value of the homes would be greatly affected by the apartments basically in their backyard.

01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:42.760
 Developers trying to squeeze this into a much too small parcel to maintain good margins."

01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:43.760
 Was that all of them?

01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:48.440
 Madam Chair, I have three additional e-comments that came in by email.

01:16:48.440 --> 01:16:49.440
 Please, yeah.

01:16:49.440 --> 01:16:50.440
 Are they?

01:16:50.440 --> 01:16:51.440
 Like, I can read it for you.

01:16:51.440 --> 01:16:52.440
 I mean, I do.

01:16:52.440 --> 01:16:56.200
 I mean, they want, and I, 'cause they're, y'all don't need to hear this to make our

01:16:56.200 --> 01:16:57.200
 decisions, so.

01:16:57.200 --> 01:16:58.760
 So I'll start with the first one.

01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:00.360
 It is from Billy Casper.

01:17:00.360 --> 01:17:04.960
 "The Planning Department ignored numerous mandatory requirements documented in the City

01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:07.920
 Ordinance when they approved the site plan.

01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:11.400
 The Planning Department ignored the deficiency noted by the Planning Zoning Commission and

01:17:11.400 --> 01:17:16.320
 City Council that caused them to deny previous proposals by the developer that have the same

01:17:16.320 --> 01:17:17.520
 deficiencies.

01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:23.520
 The Planning Department ignored the 2012 International Fire Code, which the City has adopted and

01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:29.480
 approved the proposed development despite known safety issues."

01:17:29.480 --> 01:17:32.080
 Second one is from Ann Berry.

01:17:32.080 --> 01:17:35.920
 "The proposed plan do not meet the fire code.

01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:39.240
 There is only one confirmed egress to the property.

01:17:39.240 --> 01:17:45.280
 The speculated second egress proposes a great risk to the elderly residents of Brookdale.

01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:50.040
 The one available public entrance and exit is through an already overcrowded access road

01:17:50.040 --> 01:17:56.240
 that, with very fast moving merging traffic exiting the highway, the plans do not allow

01:17:56.240 --> 01:18:01.960
 adequate information regarding detention ponds that will be back to property owners.

01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:06.100
 There is no plan in place to relocate existing wildlife."

01:18:06.100 --> 01:18:12.480
 And then the last e-comment that we received is from Kristen Roman.

01:18:12.480 --> 01:18:16.840
 "We are in opposition of the Millennium Crest project moving forward.

01:18:16.840 --> 01:18:21.220
 We feel that there have been numerous codes being violated and neglected in the development

01:18:21.220 --> 01:18:26.120
 of this project and our concern for the overall safety of our community, neighbors, and outcome

01:18:26.120 --> 01:18:27.120
 of the project.

01:18:27.120 --> 01:18:32.160
 Furthermore, we stand with Jerry Perry and are in full support of his comments that you

01:18:32.160 --> 01:18:33.600
 will hear today."

01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:35.240
 Those are all the e-comments we received.

01:18:35.240 --> 01:18:37.960
 Great, thank you.

01:18:37.960 --> 01:18:40.720
 Was there anyone that called in?

01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:41.720
 No?

01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:52.680
 We can ask DTV if there are any callers waiting to speak?

01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:58.840
 It does not sound like there is.

01:18:58.840 --> 01:18:59.840
 No?

01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:00.840
 No.

01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:01.840
 Okay.

01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:03.660
 So I'm really going to close the public hearing now at 6.54.

01:19:03.660 --> 01:19:04.660
 Thank you.

01:19:04.660 --> 01:19:07.740
 I think that's important, right, because I didn't see this.

01:19:07.740 --> 01:19:12.480
 You all didn't see this or hear this, so that's important for them to be heard, so you can

01:19:12.480 --> 01:19:13.480
 have that back.

01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:14.480
 Yes, Jennifer.

01:19:14.480 --> 01:19:15.480
 [inaudible]

01:19:15.480 --> 01:19:16.480
 That's true.

01:19:16.480 --> 01:19:17.480
 [inaudible]

01:19:17.480 --> 01:19:18.480
 That's true.

01:19:18.480 --> 01:19:23.800
 So we're not going to deliberate.

01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:28.440
 That comes in the second meeting, but I'm just wondering if there are any other questions

01:19:28.440 --> 01:19:34.640
 for the appellant, for any of the speakers, for staff before we close this public hearing.

01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:39.160
 We can maybe take a brief recess, and then we could reopen for deliberation, yes.

01:19:39.160 --> 01:19:49.320
 Sorry, I have one more question for staff related to the comments coming from Ken Gold

01:19:49.320 --> 01:19:55.120
 about the work that's been going on for months related to the emergency easement.

01:19:55.120 --> 01:19:58.760
 I'm just a little bit confused about that, because I know we talked about there is already

01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:03.440
 a paved area for where one of the emergency easements is going to go.

01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:08.000
 Is it under construction for this project already for the past eight months, or what

01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.840
 is happening with that delay?

01:20:10.840 --> 01:20:17.040
 So the offsite or the second point of access into the development, so the pavement already

01:20:17.040 --> 01:20:23.880
 exists today, but in order for folks to be able to drive across the neighbor's property,

01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:28.000
 you have to have an easement that grants that access, right?

01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:33.560
 So that is what the developer is still needing to obtain in order to be able to satisfy the

01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:36.680
 notation that is on the zoning compliance plan.

01:20:36.680 --> 01:20:40.880
 So the zoning compliance plan acknowledges that the access easement will be by a separate

01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:44.920
 instrument, so they have to finish that process of acquiring the easement to give them the

01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:48.880
 legal right to have the access across the neighbor's property.

01:20:48.880 --> 01:20:53.120
 So the acquisition of the easement is actual construction that has been underway up to

01:20:53.120 --> 01:20:54.120
 this point?

01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:59.600
 The actual acquisition of the easement is basically a paper document, so there might be funds

01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:07.680
 that are transferred, but no construction is occurring associated with the subject property

01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:11.440
 nor any additional construction on the neighboring property either.

01:21:11.440 --> 01:21:18.440
 So the key thing is that they have to be able to secure the easement, right, which is done,

01:21:18.440 --> 01:21:22.760
 it's crafted on paper and then it's filed with record at the county to make it a legal

01:21:22.760 --> 01:21:24.280
 valid document.

01:21:24.280 --> 01:21:29.060
 And so they still have to work through obtaining that easement right and finishing that process

01:21:29.060 --> 01:21:34.960
 in order then to be able to eventually get a building permit to get under construction.

01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:38.040
 We would not allow them to get under construction without that easement.

01:21:38.040 --> 01:21:39.040
 Okay.

01:21:39.040 --> 01:21:43.480
 I guess this may be a question for Mr. Golden because the reference to a project that's

01:21:43.480 --> 01:21:48.280
 been underway for like eight months that's delayed, there might be a problem in constructing

01:21:48.280 --> 01:21:54.000
 that easement because I'm confused.

01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:59.280
 So it might be helpful to note that there is actual access, like physically can I drive

01:21:59.280 --> 01:22:04.440
 a car from here to there, and then there's a legal right of access, which is is the property

01:22:04.440 --> 01:22:10.600
 owner going to permit me to use this piece of road in the case of a private road.

01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:14.760
 So it's my understanding that in the instance of the secondary fire access, what we're looking

01:22:14.760 --> 01:22:19.480
 at is confirming legal right of access and so that's negotiating between two private

01:22:19.480 --> 01:22:20.480
 parties.

01:22:20.480 --> 01:22:21.480
 Go ahead.

01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:22.480
 Yes.

01:22:22.480 --> 01:22:30.600
 And so for this long, this length of time, the developer has not been able to secure

01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:31.600
 that legal right.

01:22:31.600 --> 01:22:33.600
 Is that correct?

01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:34.840
 We don't know that.

01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:37.120
 We made that a requirement of what they have to do.

01:22:37.120 --> 01:22:39.280
 They submitted, said that's what they're going to do.

01:22:39.280 --> 01:22:40.800
 We don't know the answer to that question.

01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:45.080
 So as yet, it has not been secured.

01:22:45.080 --> 01:22:50.000
 To my knowledge that easement has not been secured at that time, that might be an appropriate

01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:52.000
 question for the developer.

01:22:52.000 --> 01:22:55.760
 Yes, exactly.

01:22:55.760 --> 01:23:01.480
 The only other thing I would add is that projects, some projects take quicker or take a shorter

01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:03.720
 amount of time to get under construction than others.

01:23:03.720 --> 01:23:08.480
 So for a variety of different reasons, in my opinion, that's not necessarily would be

01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:13.800
 something that is germane to me, the issue is whether or not the condition has been satisfied,

01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:17.720
 which is designated on the zoning compliance plan that that easement would be granted by

01:23:17.720 --> 01:23:18.720
 separate instrument.

01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.320
 Again, there's no timing requirement associated with it other than they have to have it accomplished

01:23:22.320 --> 01:23:24.320
 before a building permit is issued.

01:23:24.320 --> 01:23:28.560
 And the owner does not have to grant it as would be the case in eminent domain, correct?

01:23:28.560 --> 01:23:30.040
 The current owner does not.

01:23:30.040 --> 01:23:33.200
 The current, the offsite owner, no, they don't have to grant it.

01:23:33.200 --> 01:23:38.400
 And if they do not grant it, then the plan would have to be amended to be able to illustrate

01:23:38.400 --> 01:23:45.720
 where they're going to obtain their offsite emergency access from for that second point.

01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:52.200
 And related to this, I'll also note that the zoning compliance letter does, does expire

01:23:52.200 --> 01:23:58.680
 in two years if we don't, if we don't make progress on the, finish the project.

01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:00.960
 We, we have been working diligently.

01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:05.960
 We obviously were dealing with a, with an owner out of state corporation who has a lender

01:24:05.960 --> 01:24:09.560
 who also has to approve any, any easement transfer.

01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:15.320
 I think I can say with confidence that by the end of next week, we'll have that.

01:24:15.320 --> 01:24:20.120
 So it's certainly not something we've been sitting around doing nothing for two years.

01:24:20.120 --> 01:24:22.320
 That's, that's unfair and inaccurate.

01:24:22.320 --> 01:24:27.040
 We've been working diligently and should have it to the city for review very soon.

01:24:27.040 --> 01:24:28.480
 Thank you.

01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:35.280
 I've got, I've got a question about the, the, the, the fire easements, yeah?

01:24:35.280 --> 01:24:41.000
 So I just, that seems to be the biggest concern.

01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:46.200
 Right now it looks like there's one entrance, but there's another one that will be locked.

01:24:46.200 --> 01:24:53.080
 And I just want to kind of clarify, what is the, the, the minimum that this property owner

01:24:53.080 --> 01:24:55.480
 must meet for fire access?

01:24:55.480 --> 01:25:00.900
 That seems to be like the, the biggest sticking point, biggest concern of, of these parties.

01:25:00.900 --> 01:25:09.040
 What is the minimum and, and does the site plan meet that?

01:25:09.040 --> 01:25:10.960
 The minimum is two.

01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:16.920
 So we ask for two, fire is asking for two, they're required to provide two, whether there

01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:23.660
 will or will not be two or three, whether there will be a locked gate or not is, is

01:25:23.660 --> 01:25:24.660
 in question.

01:25:24.660 --> 01:25:28.400
 However, that will have to be approved by the fire department.

01:25:28.400 --> 01:25:32.920
 The width, I think you referenced the width and the access around the building is very

01:25:32.920 --> 01:25:37.720
 similar to any other apartment structure that we have.

01:25:37.720 --> 01:25:44.220
 And so all of these things must comply with our fire code and is reviewed by fire personnel

01:25:44.220 --> 01:25:48.880
 in order to grant approvals in X of the, in each of the next phases as well as this phase.

01:25:48.880 --> 01:25:49.880
 Got it.

01:25:49.880 --> 01:25:56.900
 So, so if, if they build all of these units and they just look beautiful and granite countertops

01:25:56.900 --> 01:26:02.720
 and everything's gorgeous, but they don't have the two access points, they won't get

01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:05.320
 final approval to actually move people in.

01:26:05.320 --> 01:26:06.320
 They have to have.

01:26:06.320 --> 01:26:07.320
 And they wouldn't get that far.

01:26:07.320 --> 01:26:08.320
 Yeah.

01:26:08.320 --> 01:26:09.320
 They would not get that far.

01:26:09.320 --> 01:26:10.320
 Okay.

01:26:10.320 --> 01:26:11.320
 So they wouldn't be under construction.

01:26:11.320 --> 01:26:14.280
 We will, we will have all of this ironed out prior to issuing the building permit.

01:26:14.280 --> 01:26:19.840
 So we're not going to put 400 people in this project with only one access point.

01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:20.840
 It will have two.

01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:21.840
 Two.

01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:22.840
 Thank you.

01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:23.840
 I just wanted to clarify that.

01:26:23.840 --> 01:26:24.840
 Thank you.

01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:25.840
 Yes, go ahead.

01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:30.680
 I have a question, the, the fire access situation has been discussed a great deal.

01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:36.000
 What came up that hasn't been discussed as much as the ESA and the connection to the

01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:37.000
 Bucky's ESA?

01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:41.120
 And I would love to hear something about that.

01:26:41.120 --> 01:26:46.960
 So I can, so I don't know if this is considered additional testimony or not.

01:26:46.960 --> 01:26:49.120
 So I would defer to the attorneys on that.

01:26:49.120 --> 01:26:52.840
 But it is in our staff analysis that it's addressed and was on the slide.

01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:55.280
 So I feel like it's appropriate for me to address it.

01:26:55.280 --> 01:26:59.560
 So the appellant claimed that there was ESA on the site in the staff written material

01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:07.280
 and on the slide we presented, the ESA did not exist when the original map was done and

01:27:07.280 --> 01:27:09.520
 it's included in your attachments and explains it.

01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:16.120
 So when the original ESA, official ESA map of the city was adopted in like 1999, 2000,

01:27:16.120 --> 01:27:18.360
 it had originally designated this area.

01:27:18.360 --> 01:27:22.440
 What we found over time is that there were many areas that were incorrectly designated

01:27:22.440 --> 01:27:23.440
 as ESA.

01:27:23.440 --> 01:27:29.440
 And so upon further analysis, this ESA in the crossland, or excuse me, this ESA did

01:27:29.440 --> 01:27:35.040
 not exist in the crossland habitat or crossland upland habitat, excuse me, did not exist on

01:27:35.040 --> 01:27:36.040
 the property.

01:27:36.040 --> 01:27:39.280
 And so therefore the property is not subject to our ESA requirements.

01:27:39.280 --> 01:27:44.920
 It does not meet the minimum definition requirement for the contiguous 10 acres and with respect

01:27:44.920 --> 01:27:46.960
 to the trees that are located on the property.

01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:52.600
 So there's that ESA component and then there's also an alternate ESA consideration that would

01:27:52.600 --> 01:27:59.040
 have to be taken place off site if the Buckees development, their remaining undeveloped land,

01:27:59.040 --> 01:28:03.400
 if they extend Nugget Way eventually to the subject property, there's an alternate ESA

01:28:03.400 --> 01:28:08.600
 that would have to be done to allow for that pavement to go over that riparian buffer.

01:28:08.600 --> 01:28:09.960
 And that is approved by council.

01:28:09.960 --> 01:28:10.960
 Yeah.

01:28:10.960 --> 01:28:14.640
 Actually, I remember being on planning and zoning at that time when the ESA was being

01:28:14.640 --> 01:28:20.600
 seen at Buckees and I recall that case very well.

01:28:20.600 --> 01:28:22.280
 Mr. Jake, no one has called on you.

01:28:22.280 --> 01:28:23.280
 Can you please take us...

01:28:23.280 --> 01:28:24.280
 I have a point of order because questions have been addressed to city staff and answered

01:28:24.280 --> 01:28:25.280
 and we disagree with those answers.

01:28:25.280 --> 01:28:26.280
 And we should be allowed an opportunity to give our position as well in response to these

01:28:26.280 --> 01:28:27.280
 answers.

01:28:27.280 --> 01:28:43.160
 Otherwise, the only answer that this board is getting is the answer from the city representatives.

01:28:43.160 --> 01:28:47.880
 Also in fairness, I will say that at least one of my questions has been brought up, both

01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:52.560
 of them in fact, have been brought up by either exhibits or statements made by the appellant.

01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:54.640
 So I wonder what they have to say about it.

01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:55.640
 Would you...

01:28:55.640 --> 01:28:57.360
 Because I feel like we've had the opportunity for a rebuttal.

01:28:57.360 --> 01:29:01.400
 If there is someone from CBA who would like to ask a direct question, because the questions

01:29:01.400 --> 01:29:05.040
 we've been asking have been staff questions, is there someone who would like to ask a question

01:29:05.040 --> 01:29:06.040
 of Mr. Drake?

01:29:06.040 --> 01:29:07.040
 Sure.

01:29:07.040 --> 01:29:15.400
 I would like to ask Mr. Drake to elaborate on the exhibit that you provided here.

01:29:15.400 --> 01:29:21.180
 Yep, I will.

01:29:21.180 --> 01:29:22.180
 This one.

01:29:22.180 --> 01:29:23.180
 Yes, ma'am.

01:29:23.180 --> 01:29:25.120
 The question was to you.

01:29:25.120 --> 01:29:29.840
 And then I would also like you to address the ESA question.

01:29:29.840 --> 01:29:31.440
 Yes.

01:29:31.440 --> 01:29:37.920
 I don't know that I'm able to address the ESA question myself, but I can address the

01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:42.360
 issue with this exhibit here.

01:29:42.360 --> 01:29:44.680
 And what was the question again?

01:29:44.680 --> 01:29:49.320
 No one had discussed the item of the locked gate and the danger proposed by that.

01:29:49.320 --> 01:29:52.040
 But staff did address that, but it's your exhibit.

01:29:52.040 --> 01:29:57.680
 Well, when someone calls in the fire alarm and people start trying to escape, they're

01:29:57.680 --> 01:30:03.480
 all going to be queued up on that same road trying to get out to save their lives.

01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:09.160
 They'll be trying to exit onto a one-way access road on I-35 that could be backed up for a

01:30:09.160 --> 01:30:11.240
 light or what have you.

01:30:11.240 --> 01:30:15.160
 Meanwhile, somebody from the fire department has to get to that locked gate.

01:30:15.160 --> 01:30:16.640
 How are they going to get there?

01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:22.560
 They're going to swim upstream past all of the 408 cars that are trying desperately to

01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:23.560
 leave.

01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:30.720
 And they can't get to that locked gate unless and until they can get past those cars and

01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:35.960
 get back there, get out the key to the Knox box, unlock the Knox box, pull the key out

01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:39.380
 of the Knox box, and then unlock the gate.

01:30:39.380 --> 01:30:46.960
 That's the danger here, and as far as the fire code is concerned, yes, the width for

01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:53.520
 aerial access, this is more than a 30-foot tall building that has to be 26 feet.

01:30:53.520 --> 01:31:03.480
 And then this code section, D106, there have to be two separate access roads for this.

01:31:03.480 --> 01:31:12.880
 And I guess the main point here is with regard to this letter here, the city said that this

01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:19.280
 letter does have the qualifications in there to allow them to apply these other standards

01:31:19.280 --> 01:31:20.360
 at a later date.

01:31:20.360 --> 01:31:26.560
 I don't read it there, but this board has the opportunity to impose conditions upon

01:31:26.560 --> 01:31:27.560
 this order.

01:31:27.560 --> 01:31:28.560
 Clarify it.

01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:29.560
 Make it clear.

01:31:29.560 --> 01:31:34.120
 Make it undeniably clear that they have to do that.

01:31:34.120 --> 01:31:37.880
 They have to show that these standards are approved.

01:31:37.880 --> 01:31:38.880
 Yeah.

01:31:38.880 --> 01:31:39.880
 Mr. Drake.

01:31:39.880 --> 01:31:40.880
 Reversing.

01:31:40.880 --> 01:31:41.880
 Tell staff to do it.

01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:44.000
 In the interest of time, I believe you've answered the question.

01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:45.000
 Yeah.

01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:46.000
 Thank you.

01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:48.640
 And perhaps my question about the ESA was directed to the gentleman who brought it up,

01:31:48.640 --> 01:31:49.640
 Mr. Gould.

01:31:49.640 --> 01:31:50.640
 Okay.

01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:51.640
 I'm sorry.

01:31:51.640 --> 01:31:52.640
 Your question?

01:31:52.640 --> 01:32:00.120
 Can you elaborate on the ESA, the condition that you described, it would have to meet?

01:32:00.120 --> 01:32:01.120
 Yeah.

01:32:01.120 --> 01:32:07.480
 Based on what was put out for the first go-around with the SUP, this area used to be sort of

01:32:07.480 --> 01:32:08.480
 an ESA.

01:32:08.480 --> 01:32:11.480
 It was considered to be appropriate eventually.

01:32:11.480 --> 01:32:15.120
 It was not really an ESA yet.

01:32:15.120 --> 01:32:18.160
 When the Buckees thing came in, that brought the focus in.

01:32:18.160 --> 01:32:21.120
 The neighborhood that I live in to the south ate up a big piece of it.

01:32:21.120 --> 01:32:27.440
 But if you look, that Buckees ESA and this piece of property, the 7.6 acres, that's more

01:32:27.440 --> 01:32:31.720
 than the 10 acres for an ESA or for the Upland Habitat.

01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:34.400
 It doesn't have to be locked in by property lines.

01:32:34.400 --> 01:32:35.400
 That's clear.

01:32:35.400 --> 01:32:36.400
 It can go across.

01:32:36.400 --> 01:32:39.640
 It can be more than one piece of property to make this 10 acres.

01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:45.520
 So the 7.6 is not technically 10, but you add Buckees end in there and the retirement

01:32:45.520 --> 01:32:48.240
 home piece of it, you got 10 acres.

01:32:48.240 --> 01:32:51.280
 It could be an ESA or an Upland Habitat.

01:32:51.280 --> 01:32:57.360
 It's just simply was never protected and it didn't get there, but it's one habitat.

01:32:57.360 --> 01:33:01.200
 And those animals, when you bulldoze that and run them into my neighborhood or across

01:33:01.200 --> 01:33:06.720
 35, there's nothing like that anywhere on that side of the freeway to get to South Lake.

01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:10.160
 That's a special piece of property.

01:33:10.160 --> 01:33:11.160
 That's all I really know.

01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:12.160
 Thank you.

01:33:12.160 --> 01:33:13.160
 I'm sorry.

01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:18.720
 So you've had an opportunity to speak unless if anyone has a question for Mr. Perry.

01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:19.720
 Yeah.

01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:22.720
 Was there a question down here?

01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:23.720
 Go ahead.

01:33:23.720 --> 01:33:29.560
 I did have a question and it's actually the letter that is currently on there and I don't

01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:33.480
 know who best to answer it and whether it's an appropriate question.

01:33:33.480 --> 01:33:43.560
 It's dated April 21st, 2022, second paragraph says a ZCP is valid for 24 months expiring

01:33:43.560 --> 01:33:45.920
 on April 21st, 2021.

01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:48.680
 Is that a typo?

01:33:48.680 --> 01:33:51.680
 That is a typo.

01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:52.680
 Okay.

01:33:52.680 --> 01:33:55.000
 Because it's two years from the date of the letter.

01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:56.760
 So that would be 2024.

01:33:56.760 --> 01:33:57.760
 Thank you.

01:33:57.760 --> 01:33:59.040
 That was all my question was.

01:33:59.040 --> 01:34:00.040
 Thank you.

01:34:00.040 --> 01:34:01.040
 Another question.

01:34:01.040 --> 01:34:02.040
 Go ahead.

01:34:02.040 --> 01:34:03.040
 I do.

01:34:03.040 --> 01:34:10.200
 I do have a question for Mr. Perry, questions for Mr. Perry and hopefully they're pretty

01:34:10.200 --> 01:34:11.200
 simple.

01:34:11.200 --> 01:34:15.000
 I just, I'm trying to understand this as a citizen of Denton and so I'm wondering what

01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:20.560
 your understanding is as we've sat through listening to everyone's presentations.

01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:27.260
 So just a couple of hopefully quick response questions, but I was wondering if you, please

01:34:27.260 --> 01:34:32.400
 understand I do not mean to be condescending.

01:34:32.400 --> 01:34:36.440
 I don't, I don't think so.

01:34:36.440 --> 01:34:40.080
 I didn't get that from you.

01:34:40.080 --> 01:34:45.400
 But based on, so I understand one of the concerns was about having two point of entries, but

01:34:45.400 --> 01:34:49.960
 my understanding is that all of that will come before or come during the platting phase

01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:52.740
 that they'll have to demonstrate that they're able to get that.

01:34:52.740 --> 01:34:56.800
 So before they have a permit to build, there will be in fact two point of entry.

01:34:56.800 --> 01:34:58.520
 Do you agree with that?

01:34:58.520 --> 01:34:59.520
 Absolutely.

01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:00.520
 Okay.

01:35:00.520 --> 01:35:03.000
 So that's what I have been trying to say.

01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:07.880
 And all we've been doing here, I can make it very simple.

01:35:07.880 --> 01:35:11.440
 All that they've said, just put it in writing.

01:35:11.440 --> 01:35:12.440
 Okay.

01:35:12.440 --> 01:35:16.400
 So that's your, that's your issue is that it is not, you don't think that the developer

01:35:16.400 --> 01:35:19.080
 has received these conditions in writing?

01:35:19.080 --> 01:35:24.480
 No, I don't think the developer has got the conditions available to him yet.

01:35:24.480 --> 01:35:30.440
 I don't mind when he gets them, but what I'm saying is since the people all agree

01:35:30.440 --> 01:35:39.920
 is there anything wrong with putting a contention on this so that we all can be on the same

01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:40.920
 page?

01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:47.640
 I will sleep better at night if I know that the staff and the zoning commission and the

01:35:47.640 --> 01:35:56.480
 city council is willing to require it to be in writing instead of hearsay.

01:35:56.480 --> 01:35:57.480
 Okay.

01:35:57.480 --> 01:36:02.000
 So for the fire code, that has obviously been a huge issue based on my current understanding

01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:08.240
 after listening to everyone that the fire code standards, which are set by experts,

01:36:08.240 --> 01:36:11.880
 not me, that they will be met at the time of building.

01:36:11.880 --> 01:36:12.880
 Do you agree with that?

01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:13.880
 I agree with it.

01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:14.880
 Okay.

01:36:14.880 --> 01:36:18.200
 And then the last question is about tree preservation.

01:36:18.200 --> 01:36:22.120
 And according to everything I've heard tonight, when it's all said and done, there should

01:36:22.120 --> 01:36:27.720
 be some percentage of trees preserved or there are remedies to hold them accountable.

01:36:27.720 --> 01:36:28.720
 If not, do you agree with that?

01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:29.720
 Yes, I do.

01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:30.720
 Okay.

01:36:30.720 --> 01:36:31.720
 So I think you and I have the same understanding.

01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:33.480
 I just wanted to be on the same page.

01:36:33.480 --> 01:36:35.280
 So thank you for answering those.

01:36:35.280 --> 01:36:36.280
 Thank you very much.

01:36:36.280 --> 01:36:37.280
 Yes, sir.

01:36:37.280 --> 01:36:40.280
 Are there any other questions?

01:36:40.280 --> 01:36:41.280
 Okay.

01:36:41.280 --> 01:36:42.840
 Yes, ma'am.

01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:43.840
 Yeah.

01:36:43.840 --> 01:36:51.800
 I just want to note that at the second meeting, our ability to ask questions will be curtailed.

01:36:51.800 --> 01:36:55.920
 So smoke 'em if you got 'em.

01:36:55.920 --> 01:37:01.960
 I just want to make sure that we've cleared the deck so that the answer is taken.

01:37:01.960 --> 01:37:04.440
 Well, in that case, can I ask a question of staff?

01:37:04.440 --> 01:37:05.440
 Yeah.

01:37:05.440 --> 01:37:06.440
 Yeah.

01:37:06.440 --> 01:37:07.440
 Please.

01:37:07.440 --> 01:37:08.440
 Okay.

01:37:08.440 --> 01:37:09.440
 Because what will happen in the second meeting is like, it's just us up here.

01:37:09.440 --> 01:37:10.440
 Deliberation.

01:37:10.440 --> 01:37:11.440
 Right.

01:37:11.440 --> 01:37:12.440
 So if you have questions, we have to ask them now.

01:37:12.440 --> 01:37:13.440
 Okay.

01:37:13.440 --> 01:37:17.980
 So again, based off of my conversation just now with Mr. Perry, we're on the same page

01:37:17.980 --> 01:37:21.400
 about we know that there are conditions that need to be met.

01:37:21.400 --> 01:37:25.000
 So now the question is, does the developer know that and do they know that in writing?

01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:29.240
 So I'm just curious about your process and are they provided with all of these things

01:37:29.240 --> 01:37:30.240
 in writing?

01:37:30.240 --> 01:37:34.160
 So in my opinion, yes, the developer is aware of the condition that has to be addressed

01:37:34.160 --> 01:37:35.800
 with respect to the access.

01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:41.960
 And the reason for that, and as noted in the staff analysis, is that on the plan, it acknowledges,

01:37:41.960 --> 01:37:47.080
 particularly as it relates to the emergency access, it says our 24-foot access easement

01:37:47.080 --> 01:37:48.700
 by separate instrument.

01:37:48.700 --> 01:37:54.120
 So that alone, the developer knows that they have to acquire that offsite legal right,

01:37:54.120 --> 01:37:58.080
 as Ms. Degren had spoken to previously, has to be satisfied.

01:37:58.080 --> 01:38:00.360
 So in my opinion, yes, they are fully aware of that.

01:38:00.360 --> 01:38:01.360
 Okay.

01:38:01.360 --> 01:38:02.360
 Go ahead.

01:38:02.360 --> 01:38:03.360
 Another question.

01:38:03.360 --> 01:38:04.360
 I have a question.

01:38:04.360 --> 01:38:09.880
 Because this is, although an undeclared ESA, nonetheless quite an active habitat still

01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:14.920
 even after Buckies was built, what are the plans to deal with that because these creatures

01:38:14.920 --> 01:38:18.680
 will be in the neighborhood yards?

01:38:18.680 --> 01:38:23.360
 So the subject property, as explained in the staff analysis, and the exhibit provided,

01:38:23.360 --> 01:38:31.280
 was removed from the, I'm drawing a blank, was removed as an ESA, and no longer designated

01:38:31.280 --> 01:38:34.840
 as an upland habitat because it did not meet minimum acreage requirements and with respect

01:38:34.840 --> 01:38:37.080
 to the trees being located there.

01:38:37.080 --> 01:38:43.540
 So anything that is remaining with any of the trees on the property is purely speculation

01:38:43.540 --> 01:38:52.240
 as to what the habitats or what the, I'm trying to find the word, the animals, birds, bees,

01:38:52.240 --> 01:38:55.760
 whatever may reside within those, and I can't be able to address that.

01:38:55.760 --> 01:39:00.800
 So what I do know is that the plan, as it's submitted, does comply with our requirements

01:39:00.800 --> 01:39:07.320
 as provided for in our ESA regulations and our tree preservation with respect to the

01:39:07.320 --> 01:39:09.560
 roadway connection of Nugget Way.

01:39:09.560 --> 01:39:13.240
 If that ever occurs over that riparian buffer, then they would have to submit the alteasa

01:39:13.240 --> 01:39:17.720
 plan at that point in time they're requesting to be able to extend the pavement.

01:39:17.720 --> 01:39:22.960
 So the, but as it relates to the subject property, it complies with our current requirements

01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:23.960
 on the ordinance.

01:39:23.960 --> 01:39:30.200
 So I can't speculate as to what nature will do within the remaining trees.

01:39:30.200 --> 01:39:35.280
 It's a difficult situation because as it was only very recently, it did comply with the

01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:44.760
 size and there are, Engage Denton is receiving concerns regularly already about coyotes appearing

01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:48.800
 where they would not have eight years ago.

01:39:48.800 --> 01:39:53.340
 So although this remaining piece of property isn't 10 acres, it was part of something that

01:39:53.340 --> 01:39:59.720
 was more than 10 acres and was, I gather, if that's correct, what we just heard on the

01:39:59.720 --> 01:40:06.600
 way towards being declared as an ESA when it was scooped up by the Buckeyes project.

01:40:06.600 --> 01:40:12.440
 So there's a bit of history there that can't be addressed necessarily, but nonetheless

01:40:12.440 --> 01:40:17.720
 will become something that the city will have to deal with and I was wondering, more than

01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:27.840
 one person asked about what exactly is going to be the plan for the neighborhood around.

01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:34.520
 Is that, I'm not sure that's relevant to this particular case though, Jennifer, I hear you.

01:40:34.520 --> 01:40:39.800
 My heart's right there with you, but that's talking about the plan for an environmentally

01:40:39.800 --> 01:40:46.960
 sensitive area that's outside of this particular property is not something that we are able

01:40:46.960 --> 01:40:48.240
 to discuss this evening.

01:40:48.240 --> 01:40:49.240
 I see.

01:40:49.240 --> 01:40:50.240
 Yeah.

01:40:50.240 --> 01:40:54.280
 And the only thing I would offer is that the exhibit that is included in the staff analysis

01:40:54.280 --> 01:40:59.300
 helps explain the history or the exhibit combined with the text helps explain the history associated

01:40:59.300 --> 01:41:00.520
 with the area.

01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:03.880
 As a result of the Southridge development, I believe it was in also the Oak Ridge Oak

01:41:03.880 --> 01:41:10.040
 Village development that occurred that started the whittling away, the whittling away if

01:41:10.040 --> 01:41:15.920
 you will, at the ESA, but it was also determined that ESA was also incorrectly identified and

01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:21.440
 so our official map has those ESA areas designated as removed, including for the subject property,

01:41:21.440 --> 01:41:23.080
 not meeting the minimum acreage requirement.

01:41:23.080 --> 01:41:24.080
 Thank you.

01:41:24.080 --> 01:41:25.080
 I hope we understood that.

01:41:25.080 --> 01:41:28.760
 I do have one last question, which is I wanted to make sure that...

01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:29.760
 Sorry.

01:41:29.760 --> 01:41:30.760
 Hold on.

01:41:30.760 --> 01:41:33.320
 Jennifer, you turned your mic off.

01:41:33.320 --> 01:41:35.360
 Just lean real it.

01:41:35.360 --> 01:41:36.360
 Thank you very much.

01:41:36.360 --> 01:41:41.520
 I wanted to make sure everyone in the ZBA panel understands how the tree mitigation process

01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:42.520
 actually works.

01:41:42.520 --> 01:41:50.040
 For example, if 75 old growth trees are removed, what is planted in its place?

01:41:50.040 --> 01:41:53.680
 Is it more of those or is it baby plants or whatever?

01:41:53.680 --> 01:41:58.920
 As addressed in the staff analysis, the DDC speaks to how trees can be mitigated.

01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:03.480
 Again, they're required to mitigate 30% of the heritage quality trees.

01:42:03.480 --> 01:42:05.920
 They're allowed to drop that down to 20%.

01:42:05.920 --> 01:42:10.360
 There's a higher mitigation ratio that is provided for the delta of the reduction and

01:42:10.360 --> 01:42:14.200
 addresses how that can be accomplished.

01:42:14.200 --> 01:42:21.120
 State law specifies that when it comes to mitigation, mitigation can occur in two forms.

01:42:21.120 --> 01:42:23.360
 We have to offer both, which our code does.

01:42:23.360 --> 01:42:26.540
 One is with the replacement of planting of trees.

01:42:26.540 --> 01:42:29.640
 The other is payment in lieu of.

01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:33.160
 The state law does not prescribe the type of trees that have to be utilized.

01:42:33.160 --> 01:42:35.920
 We have to provide that option for replanting.

01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:42.160
 With the plan that was included within the packet, the plan complies with our tree mitigation

01:42:42.160 --> 01:42:47.280
 requirements to allow for the tree preservation to be reduced to 20%, or in this case, I believe

01:42:47.280 --> 01:42:51.240
 it was 21.6% is what they had on their plan.

01:42:51.240 --> 01:42:53.640
 Thank you.

01:42:53.640 --> 01:42:54.640
 Yes.

01:42:54.640 --> 01:42:55.640
 Another question.

01:42:55.640 --> 01:42:56.640
 Sorry.

01:42:56.640 --> 01:43:00.080
 That's a question for staff, and I'm just kind of repeating to make sure I understand.

01:43:00.080 --> 01:43:01.080
 So sorry.

01:43:01.080 --> 01:43:04.520
 You're definitely repeating your answer here, but just kind of in reference to the fire

01:43:04.520 --> 01:43:11.040
 entrances and the fire lanes and the fire access roads, the current plan exceeds the

01:43:11.040 --> 01:43:17.160
 code as required in the sense that there are two entries, could be three at a later date,

01:43:17.160 --> 01:43:22.080
 and that we have three sides with 24 foot fire lanes, whereas the code was 20 at the

01:43:22.080 --> 01:43:28.560
 time, and one side with 26 foot, which is two code.

01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:33.840
 In the respect to this plan, if something, I know that the appellant is very interested

01:43:33.840 --> 01:43:40.280
 in conditions, they have to meet the requirements of their plan, not the code.

01:43:40.280 --> 01:43:44.000
 So if anything changes in the future, the plan is not going to be approved.

01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:47.280
 They're going to meet their plan, not the requirements, the number of requirements in

01:43:47.280 --> 01:43:48.280
 the fire code.

01:43:48.280 --> 01:43:49.280
 Correct.

01:43:49.280 --> 01:43:51.000
 They have to meet the requirements of their plan.

01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:54.080
 What I would offer is that if they're not able to satisfy the requirements of their

01:43:54.080 --> 01:43:58.760
 plan, then they would be submitting a new zoning compliance plan to the city for review,

01:43:58.760 --> 01:44:02.760
 and that plan would be reviewed in accordance with the requirements that are in effect at

01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:03.760
 that time.

01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:04.760
 Okay.

01:44:04.760 --> 01:44:05.760
 Thank you.

01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:06.760
 Thank you.

01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:15.120
 I'm going to give you all one more minute to think, if you have any other burning questions.

01:44:15.120 --> 01:44:17.240
 We're good.

01:44:17.240 --> 01:44:18.240
 Okay.

01:44:18.240 --> 01:44:22.080
 All right, it's 7.19.

01:44:22.080 --> 01:44:26.080
 I'm going to close this first meeting.

01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:32.960
 I would like to take maybe a 15-minute sandwich break, because it'll help me think better.

01:44:32.960 --> 01:44:38.480
 So let's come back at 7.35, and I want to be mindful of everyone's time, because we've

01:44:38.480 --> 01:44:40.760
 got staff with families that I want to make sure they can get home to.

01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:43.480
 So be in your seat at 7.35 for the next meeting.

01:44:43.480 --> 01:44:44.480
 Yeah?

01:44:44.480 --> 01:44:45.480
 Cool.

01:44:45.480 --> 01:44:46.480
 Thanks.

01:44:46.480 --> 01:44:51.400
 And Chair, if I may, I encourage the board to remember the Open Meeting Act and not discuss

01:44:51.400 --> 01:44:53.600
 any business while we're on break.