1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Good evening, everyone, my name is Amber Brighill, I'm the Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustments. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Today is June 29th, it's 5.35 p.m. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,920 We do have a quorum present, so I'd like to call this meeting to order. 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,640 First I'll go through the game plan after we do the first item of business, which is 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:32,320 the Pledge to the U.S. and the Texas Flag, rise as you're able, please. 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:38,280 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for 7 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:47,360 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 8 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:58,120 Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one and indivisible. 9 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,600 Thank you. 10 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:09,680 The next item of business is considering the minutes from our last meeting of May 16th, 11 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:17,920 if we have any additions or corrections to that before we make a motion? 12 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:18,920 No? 13 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:19,920 I'd entertain a motion then. 14 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:20,920 See a motion. 15 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,600 The first from Jennifer, and a second. 16 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,200 Do we have any conversation, discussion about the minutes from the last meeting? 17 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,200 No? 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:34,000 All right, all those in favor of approving the minutes from May 16th, raise your hand. 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Any opposed? 20 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Any abstained? 21 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Motion passes unanimously. 22 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,420 Oh, that was the first one. 23 00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:41,420 The second one. 24 00:01:41,420 --> 00:01:43,880 Let's do the second one, because there were two. 25 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,360 We had two meetings technically. 26 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,000 I'll make a motion for the second. 27 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Thank you. 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Is there a second? 29 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000 Second? 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,000 All right. 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 And any discussion? 32 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,000 All those in favor? 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Any opposed? 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,000 And any abstained? 35 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,000 That passes unanimously. 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Perfect. 37 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Easy breezy. 38 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Moving along. 39 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:07,580 Okay, so this next part is the more complicated part. 40 00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:09,880 It is a public hearing. 41 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,240 That means that anyone in attendance can speak on this item. 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,800 People can also phone in to the meeting if they'd like to make a comment. 43 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,440 We do request that you fill out a card, though if you'd like to, as the spirit moves, you 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,360 get up and speak and fill out a card later. 45 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,360 That's okay, too. 46 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,680 Let me talk about how it's going to go. 47 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:34,560 So it takes six votes to reverse or modify any determination of an administrative official 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,080 on appeal, and that's what we're looking at tonight. 49 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,080 What we're going to do is we're going to hear first from city staff. 50 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,200 Then each party will get up to 20 minutes to present their case. 51 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,000 Now if you want to divvy that up, if there's multiple people in your party and one person 52 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,480 speaks for five minutes, another person speaks for 15, that's fine, whatever it is. 53 00:02:54,480 --> 00:03:08,600 But each party will get 20 minutes total for each party. 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:15,180 After all the parties have done their presentation, then each party will get an opportunity for 55 00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:23,880 a rebuttal, which will be two minutes per speaker with a total of 10 minutes per party. 56 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,860 When that's all done, then we will invite comments from the public, which can be three 57 00:03:28,860 --> 00:03:29,860 minutes in length. 58 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:31,480 Is that clear as mud? 59 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,480 Cool. 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:33,480 Okay. 61 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,240 Did I miss anything? 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,240 We're good. 63 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:40,240 Okay. 64 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:46,640 So I'm going to call the public hearing to order. 65 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:54,160 It's 539, because we are a quasi-judicial board, we are required to swear people in, 66 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,920 and in the interest of time, I would like to just swear you all in. 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,400 At the same time, that includes people who would maybe like to speak in the public comment 68 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,400 period later. 69 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:09,960 If you could go stand please and raise your right hand. 70 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,180 Thank you. 71 00:04:11,180 --> 00:04:16,680 Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide 72 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,200 or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct to the best 73 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,640 of your knowledge and ability? 74 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,280 If please, if so, please answer I do. 75 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:26,280 I do. 76 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:27,280 Great. 77 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:28,280 Thank you. 78 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:29,520 You can be seated. 79 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:39,120 So, excuse me, I have, there's like 66 pages here, so just give me a second. 80 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,120 Okay. 81 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,600 So in this public hearing, we are going to consider an appeal of an administrative decision 82 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,600 regarding the interpretation of the definition, nope, just kidding. 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,600 That is from the minutes. 84 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:50,600 There's 66 pages here. 85 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,600 Please, excuse me. 86 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,600 Yeah. 87 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:53,600 Where am I at? 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,600 Here we go. 89 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:55,600 This one? 90 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:56,600 That is the one. 91 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,600 Three, yes. 92 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:58,600 Okay. 93 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,600 Thank you. 94 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,600 Thanks, everyone. 95 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,760 Hold a public hearing and consider an appeal for an administrative decision regarding 96 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:10,160 the approval of a zoning compliance plan for a multifamily development and who is our presenter 97 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,160 on this one? 98 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:12,160 Staff. 99 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,160 Staff is presenting. 100 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:14,160 First. 101 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,160 Sorry. 102 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,160 Okay. 103 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,000 I'd like to open the Florida city staff. 104 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:25,280 Madam Chair, Tina Fargan, Deputy Director of Development Services. 105 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:28,920 Actually, Mr. McDonald's going to start, so I think he was taking care of a housekeeping 106 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:35,520 ... Come on, Scott, you had one job, man. 107 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,680 My apologies. 108 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:37,960 Our front doors are locked. 109 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,200 Julie, if you can assist with that, please. 110 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,200 Thank you. 111 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,920 I heard someone knocking, so we just wanted to make sure everybody could get into the 112 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:45,920 building. 113 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:46,920 Great. 114 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:47,920 Thank you. 115 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,160 Good evening, Madam Chair, Board. 116 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,400 My name is Scott McDonald, Director of Development Services. 117 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,720 I'm here to discuss this item with you. 118 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:02,440 I, first and foremost, would like to acknowledge Haley Zagurski, our Assistant Planning Director. 119 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,800 She is one that provided the staff analysis largely and put together this presentation. 120 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,500 Unfortunately, she's not able to be here this evening, and it will take two, maybe three 121 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:13,840 of us to put this together. 122 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:17,000 I will begin this presentation. 123 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:22,640 Tina Fargan, our Planning Director, will follow me with some of the details, but I'll get 124 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,760 a little bit more into that as we go. 125 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,480 First of all, I'd like to provide a little bit of background and overview of what this 126 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,200 site is. 127 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:38,600 As you may be aware, this is a seven-acre site on the south side of I-35. 128 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:48,780 What we have is the zoning compliance plan, zoning compliance plan for a multifamily development. 129 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:56,720 This is a by-right proposition, and what that means is that the existing zoning use is allowed 130 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,880 in this district, and that it can be built, and the use and associated development requirements 131 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,880 can be met. 132 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,440 That's what this review is. 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,260 It's important to note that the requirements that are provided in the DDC, as well as in 134 00:07:12,260 --> 00:07:19,080 our criteria manuals adopted by the city, are in compliance, and this is where we're 135 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,160 going to start. 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:30,000 Another component of this is that we had a previously heard SUP, which was for a 60-foot 137 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,720 and height multifamily project. 138 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:39,640 This was denied by council in October 19 of 2021. 139 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:46,520 This SUP is no longer relevant, so the application that was received for the zoning compliance 140 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:52,200 plan is a completely different application, and was viewed with a different set of lenses. 141 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,920 There has been some references to some of the previous items, so I just want to clarify 142 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:01,680 that on the front side that this is separate, and that we clearly want to make sure that 143 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:09,320 anything that ended with that project began anew, and that's what we're discussing. 144 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,080 A little bit of background about a zoning compliance plan. 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Zoning compliance plan is really the first step in a multi-step development review process. 146 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,400 It's a comprehensive view of what someone's proposing to do. 147 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,480 It is a bird's eye view of what it is and what rights somebody has to develop under 148 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,880 a piece of property. 149 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,880 The second piece in that is it's submitted, typically it's a site plan, a landscape plan, 150 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,000 re-preservation, and grading plan sheets. 151 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,360 We'll look at some of that detail a little further as we get into this, but again it's 152 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,720 just an overview to provide, and this is a staff approval. 153 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:57,360 As you see to the right side of the image that's on the screen, we outline really the 154 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,600 typical development process for any project here in the city of Denton, and where that 155 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,600 falls in. 156 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:08,640 Again, administratively staff reviews a zoning compliance plan to look to see if everything 157 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,560 that they're looking at to do meets our DDC. 158 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:18,960 When I say meets the DDC, it's the intent of the DDC and those elements within the DDC, 159 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,080 and then we get into greater detail when we follow those following steps. 160 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,000 As you see outlined here, you have the zoning compliance plan, preliminary PLAT, civil engineering 161 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:33,480 plans, final PLAT, really before any construction can begin. 162 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,660 It provides the developer with an assurance that the property can be developed. 163 00:09:37,660 --> 00:09:46,240 It presumes that they are able to obtain all of the offsite permits as needed and are necessary, 164 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:52,880 and they have the engineering plans approved, submitted, and PLATing then approved, and 165 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,880 we can move forward. 166 00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:03,400 Again, the DDC recognizes this as a phased approach, so again this is one piece, that 167 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,280 first piece in the puzzle as we get further into the process. 168 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,040 Each step in the process builds upon the previous. 169 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,760 There's no construction that's able to commence until the completion of the civil engineering 170 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:22,760 plans and the PLAT. 171 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,320 A quick overview of the specifics of the site. 172 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,960 What you have here is one building, which is three stories in height, maximum height 173 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,080 of 40 feet, 245 units. 174 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:40,040 You'll see that you have structured parking and some surface parking, and the primary 175 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,240 access that's highlighted is via I-35. 176 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:50,200 Tina will get into some of the specifics that relate to some of the other access points 177 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,120 and how it is that we work through this. 178 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,640 As you see to the south of Southridge Estates, we recognize that some of the neighboring 179 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,060 properties may not want the property to develop as it is important to note this property is 180 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:04,920 eligible for development. 181 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,600 This is a by-write development. 182 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,000 Again, I remind you the SUP was denied. 183 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,800 The developer indicated that they would be coming back with a by-write product, and that's 184 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:24,400 what it is that we reviewed to with this ZCP application. 185 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,800 This is our typical landscape plan. 186 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:34,280 What you will see is the dark trees, the dark circles are trees and shrubs that will be 187 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,960 the new plantings. 188 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:43,200 The lighter trees are that of what's going to be preserved. 189 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,760 The tree preservation plan, and I'm just going to bounce back just so you can see the contrast 190 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,960 between the two, you will notice that some of the trees that are, again, the lighter 191 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:59,440 trees, those preserved trees, here they're going to be darker trees. 192 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,920 We have darker trees. 193 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,280 Those are the preserved trees that we were showing on the landscape plan. 194 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,240 The lighter trees with the access are the trees that are to be removed, and then you'll 195 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,440 see just in a very light silhouette that of the parking and building structures below. 196 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,880 As a side note, this plan is a great example of why it is that we require multiple development 197 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:31,440 plans sheets to be able to separate out the context for review and to be able to legibly 198 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,320 see what it is that is on the plans to ensure that this is a proper application and that 199 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:43,680 it will be susceptible for development. 200 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:50,480 This evening, the appeal claims that the zoning compliance plan failed to meet several of 201 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,480 the general criteria for approval in the DDC. 202 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,320 Staff will address each of these bases for the appeal in turn. 203 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,800 The full deal is provided in your exhibit too. 204 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,040 Hopefully you all understood all of that. 205 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:13,120 We're looking for this to provide that criteria for approval in the DDC that was outlined 206 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,160 in the DDC and that staff follow the procedures in the DDC, and again, I think the important 207 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:26,860 piece to this is the intent of the applicable standards from the DDC compared to the written 208 00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:31,120 decision that's being appealed. 209 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:36,360 Tina will provide greater detail on the city's response and the administrative appeal to 210 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,080 staff's decision. 211 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,600 Additionally, Julie Wyatt is available for any code questions as necessary. 212 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:53,040 Thank you and Tina will take over from this point. 213 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Good afternoon, Chair, Zoning Board of Adjustment. 214 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,320 Tina Fergens, I'm the Deputy Director of Development Services. 215 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,040 Thank you, Scott, for providing that initial context as it relates to the proposed request 216 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,040 for your consideration this evening. 217 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,480 What I'm going to be doing is presenting the basis of appeal that was submitted by 218 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:15,800 the applicant and then also being able to address the city's response to each of those. 219 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,600 Given the amount of content that has to be covered, my apologies, I've got a quick delivery. 220 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,320 My goal is to provide you with more of a high-level summary overview. 221 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,160 My intention is not to read all of the words that are on the slides that are before you. 222 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,960 The content that is included on the slides is consistent with all of the staff analysis 223 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,600 in the agenda information summary sheet that was included in your packet, so hopefully 224 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:42,240 what I'm adding is just in addition to or explaining some of the content that was provided 225 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,240 in the written materials. 226 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,240 We're going to start with the first consideration, appeal basis number one. 227 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,680 This actually has two components really associated with it. 228 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,380 The first one addresses the two points of access requirement and then the second component 229 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,520 addresses the trees and the landscaping. 230 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:06,240 As it relates to the access, the appellant claims that the zoning compliance plan failed 231 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,280 to demonstrate the existence of a secondary emergency fire access, either through the 232 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,720 Brookdale property or the Buckees development that is to the Southwest. 233 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,520 As Scott explained, we have different steps within our development sequencing phase. 234 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,520 The zoning compliance plan is the first step. 235 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,360 The next step is the platting. 236 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,880 All new subdivisions and subdivisions of land is tied to platting. 237 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,640 All new subdivisions have two points of access where feasible. 238 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,120 That's a requirement of the DDC. 239 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,120 The international fire code requires two points of access for multifamily development that 240 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,560 have greater than 200 units. 241 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,760 The zoning compliance plan demonstrated that it has one primary point of access, which 242 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,880 if you look at the graphic that's shown here where the star is, that's the primary point 243 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,880 of access. 244 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,120 The second point of access that the applicant was proposing as part of the zoning compliance 245 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,900 plan is a second point of emergency access. 246 00:15:55,900 --> 00:16:00,600 As noted in your staff analysis, that second point of access was noted as a 24-foot access 247 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,380 easement by separate instrument. 248 00:16:02,380 --> 00:16:07,680 The zoning compliance plan is recognizing that if our plan is approved, we have to be able 249 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,040 to go and secure that offsite easement. 250 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,480 The pavement actually exists there today. 251 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,800 The applicant will have to make a connection to that pavement and obtain the actual easement 252 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:23,280 itself as part of the platting process and would do so by separate instrument. 253 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,120 Separate instrument is a separate document, if you will, that's filed of record for dedicating 254 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,800 the easement. 255 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,080 Next the offsite easement is related to the subdivision of the property. 256 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,320 As mentioned, the DDC allows for the phased sequencing of the planned submittals, as Scott 257 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,160 had explained earlier, and that second point of access for the offsite easement dedication 258 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,960 will occur at the time of platting. 259 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,680 The timing of the easement dedication is supported by the DDC, section 7, 8, 10, which is related 260 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,720 to easements with subdivision applications. 261 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,680 And the other citation that provides the support is section 8.3.2c.1c, which addresses the 262 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,040 two points of access for subdivision at the time of platting. 263 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,280 Also I think what is important to note is that if the applicant is not able to obtain 264 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,960 the necessary offsite access easement, then the city will not issue a building permit. 265 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,200 We're not going to issue a permit to allow somebody to go build a development project 266 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,440 if they don't have all of the criteria satisfied, and one of those criteria being the easement 267 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,680 dedication itself. 268 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,420 So the second component associated with appeal basis, number one, was that the zoning compliance 269 00:17:25,420 --> 00:17:29,440 plan failed to demonstrate compliance with the tree preservation and landscaping plan 270 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:30,440 requirements. 271 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,360 So Scott shared with you the landscaping plan previously, as well as the tree preservation 272 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:35,360 plan. 273 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:36,840 So before you is a copy of the landscape plan. 274 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,720 It shows all of the existing trees that were to be preserved, as well as proposed additional 275 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,160 trees that are being added to the site. 276 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,420 The proposed trees are the ones that are shown in the darker circles. 277 00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:51,120 But this table that I have provided here, and again, thank you to Haley Zagurski for 278 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,240 pulling this information together, but this table succinctly demonstrates how the applicant 279 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,480 has met and has actually exceeded the minimum requirements that are provided for in the 280 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,800 development code. 281 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,520 The column on the left specifies the minimum requirements that have to be adhered to, and 282 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,600 the column on the right clearly shows with the numbers that they're equal to or exceed. 283 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,400 In this case, actually they exceed all of the minimum requirements that are provided 284 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,600 for in the development code. 285 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,520 Additionally, as it relates to tree preservation, it is important to understand that the DDC 286 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:26,200 encourages preservation of 30% of the DBH or that's the diameter at breast height of 287 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,960 heritage and quality trees on the property. 288 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:38,360 The DDC section 7.7.4G.1.B.II authorizes any development to decrease the preservation 289 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:43,080 of those trees to 20% of the DBH. 290 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,320 With that reduction of the preservation of 20% of the DBH, if a higher mitigation ratio 291 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:52,880 is applied to the amount of inches being decreased below the 30%, so for whatever amount that's 292 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:58,000 lowered below the 30%, that difference has to be mitigated in one way or two ways that 293 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,160 can be mitigated is through the planting of additional trees on the property also or in 294 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,800 the form of pay in lieu of. 295 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,960 The plan that is before you and that was included in your packet, the landscape plan does comply 296 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,080 with the mitigation requirements that are provided for in the DDC. 297 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:21,400 The DDC authorizes staff to be able to administratively approve that reduction. 298 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,000 The second basis of appeal has two components associated with it. 299 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,300 The first is with respect to the two points of access, and then the second is with respect 300 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:35,000 to vehicle access outside the fire lanes. 301 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,460 The appellant claims that the zoning compliance plan failed to demonstrate compliance with 302 00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:42,260 section 106.2 of the fire code. 303 00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:46,640 As I just explained previously, the international fire code requires two points of access for 304 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,600 multifamily developments that have greater than 200 units. 305 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,720 What's important to note is the IFC does not specify a timeframe for when that access or 306 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,040 easement has to be acquired. 307 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,360 But again, the fire department is not going to allow for the construction of any improvements 308 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:02,600 until that easement is acquired. 309 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,640 As I mentioned earlier, we're not going to issue a building permit until that easement 310 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,640 requirement has been satisfied. 311 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,520 The approved access means that the fire marshal has approved the access. 312 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,440 In this case, it's through the Brookdale property. 313 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,120 Again, that's where the red circle is located on this. 314 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,920 The fire code essentially allows for the cities to determine when the easement needs to be 315 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,920 satisfied and indent and that is at the time of platting, as I just previously explained. 316 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:33,840 Also, I should point out that the property was reviewed under the 2012 IFC, which was 317 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,480 the code that was in effect at the time. 318 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,400 Today, we have a requirement and we've updated a more recent version of the IFC. 319 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,920 Today, we have a requirement now for remoteness and remoteness provides an additional means 320 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,000 of access. 321 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:50,400 While this zoning compliance plan did not have to satisfy the requirement, it actually does. 322 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,380 If all is built in the world today that surrounds this development, it will actually have three 323 00:20:54,380 --> 00:20:58,820 points of access, which is the blue circle that provides the connection to the buckies 324 00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:02,080 development and the remaining lots that are to develop through that area. 325 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:07,000 Nugget way has not been extended to the property line, but if at such point in time when nugget 326 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,720 way is extended, it would connect to this development. 327 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,680 The applicant is proposing to extend their pavement to the property line so that they 328 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:13,680 can make that connection. 329 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,680 Essentially, we would have three points of access associated with this development. 330 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,040 With respect to the second component of this provision, the appellant claims that the zoning 331 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,440 compliance plan failed to accommodate for vehicular access outside of the fire lane, 332 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,820 as well as that the fire lanes are only the minimum width provided and that the developer 333 00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:33,960 wasn't providing anything above and beyond. 334 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,920 The definition of a fire apparatus access road is a general term that's inclusive of 335 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:44,080 fire lanes, public streets, private streets, parking lot lanes, and access roadways. 336 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,840 While the fire lane definition indicates that they are not necessarily intended for vehicular 337 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,320 traffic, the fire apparatus access road definition and standards acknowledge that the fire access 338 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,080 will be shared with other vehicles on the streets in the parking lots. 339 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,600 Nothing in the IFC requires fire access roads, including fire lanes, to be separate from 340 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,840 other vehicular access. 341 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,560 I've been a planner for 27 years. 342 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,000 I've worked in six cities, which Denton is one of them, I can assure you, throughout 343 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,120 the North Texas area, and even if you travel throughout the United States, access is provided 344 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:17,080 in the form of a fire lane throughout development projects. 345 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,800 If the fire department were to interpret that we had to have two sets of pavement, one solely 346 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,920 specifically for the fire department to access and one for everybody else, with all development 347 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,880 projects happening, I don't care if it's commercial, multi-family, or single-family residential, 348 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,160 we would have then double the amount of pavement being constructed associated with these projects. 349 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:40,500 Also, the other thing is that the applicant makes claim that the developer is only providing 350 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,360 24-foot wide fire lanes. 351 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,680 At the time the zoning compliance plan was reviewed, our requirement was 20-foot fire 352 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,680 lanes. 353 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,160 So they're providing 24 feet of fire lanes on three sides, a 26-foot wide fire lane on 354 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,240 the fourth side, so that clearly exceeds the minimum 20-foot width. 355 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,800 Also what I would submit to you is that single-family residential streets are typically 33 feet 356 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,800 and wide. 357 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,920 We allow for on-street parking on either side. 358 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,920 So as a result, by doing the math, that leaves about 15 to 17 feet of clear unobstructed 359 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,000 pathway for vehicles to be able to verse along. 360 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,600 Fire lanes, on the other hand, we don't allow parking within them. 361 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,680 So if you have a fire lane in your development, you're actually getting a better deal because 362 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:23,380 you have 24 feet or 26 if it's provided for aerial access, but you have a better access 363 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:27,840 arrangement associated with the fire lanes because you're getting that 24 feet of width 364 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,760 of unobstructive travel, typical single-family residential street. 365 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,200 So the next item is for the applicant's basis of appeal, is that the zoning compliance plan 366 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,360 failed to minimize adverse visual impacts in site several items that were previously 367 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,520 shown on the specific use permit plan. 368 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,440 So as Mr. McDonald just explained, this item is not pertained or this basis of the appeal 369 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,120 does not pertain to this zoning compliance plan. 370 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,880 Any considerations associated with the plan provided with the specific use permit application 371 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,880 are no longer applicable to this. 372 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,680 Furthermore, any testimony, any discussions, anything that the developer offered up during 373 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,460 that discussion on the specific use plan are not allowed to be considered as part of the 374 00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:07,920 zoning compliance plan. 375 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,920 Table 2.2.A within the debt and development code specifically demonstrates that zoning 376 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,040 compliance plans are not subject to public input or public comment. 377 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,080 So therefore the plan that is submitted today does comply with all of the requirements that 378 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,200 are associated with the zoning compliance plan. 379 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,600 Anything offered up through that discretionary specific use permit approval process is no 380 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,400 longer valid or applicable to this project. 381 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,400 The other thing that I would propose is that the debt and development code has prescribed 382 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,620 the minimum standards associated with development for by-right in this particular case. 383 00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:42,000 Those minimum standards are the standards in which the city has deemed to be the most 384 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,000 appropriate to accommodate by-right development, including by-right development adjacent to 385 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,220 single family residential neighborhoods, and that zoning compliance plan meets or exceeds 386 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:52,640 those requirements. 387 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:53,640 So appeal based... 388 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,640 Yes? 389 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,000 So I've been told that your 10 minutes are up. 390 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Oh, they are? 391 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Okay. 392 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000 All right. 393 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000 Thank you for that information. 394 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000 Thank you. 395 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,000 You're welcome. 396 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,000 Is there... 397 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000 So Scott spoke and Tina spoke. 398 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,280 Is there still time left if there's someone else from the city who wants to speak to give 399 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,280 the 20 minutes? 400 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Was there any time left? 401 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,280 Okay. 402 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,280 All right. 403 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Okay. 404 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,280 All right. 405 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Pardon? 406 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,280 Would you say 30 seconds? 407 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Your last slide. 408 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Okay. 409 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,280 So I'll go to the last slide. 410 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,440 And some of this is also repetitive. 411 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,600 Appeal basis number four, again, ties back to the access requirements. 412 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,720 The ESEL language, I'll be honest with you, the explanation that's provided for in the 413 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,080 staff analysis adequately demonstrates why there are no ESAs that are on this property. 414 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,660 But lastly, what we have is... 415 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:37,080 So again, there was the three criteria in which the board were to consider as it relates 416 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,540 to this particular request. 417 00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:43,440 And so as Scott laid out, the items are listed there in the check mark items here. 418 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,600 We've clearly demonstrated that the zoning compliance plan that was reviewed by the city 419 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,440 does meet all of the requirements within the development code and happy to answer any questions. 420 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,440 So thank you. 421 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,440 Thank you. 422 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,280 Are there any questions for staff at this time? 423 00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,760 No? 424 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,440 Okay. 425 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:02,440 Thank you very much. 426 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,440 You're welcome. 427 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:04,440 Yes. 428 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,440 Can I take a moment to get our time together? 429 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,440 Yes. 430 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,440 Are you getting visible signals? 431 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,440 He is. 432 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,440 Okay. 433 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,440 Wonderful. 434 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,440 Yeah. 435 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,440 Okay. 436 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,160 So this is a public hearing, and I'd like to hear from one of the parties next. 437 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,360 Was there a particular order that you all had agreed to go in, or who would like to go 438 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:24,360 first? 439 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:25,360 The app, yeah? 440 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:26,360 The appellant? 441 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:27,360 Okay. 442 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:35,280 Sir, if you could step forward, state your name and address for the record and also kind 443 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,880 of your stake in this case, please. 444 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:39,880 And then you'll get... 445 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,800 Each individual will get up to 10 minutes, and each party will get up to 20 minutes. 446 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,960 I'll try my best to take 10 whole minutes. 447 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,000 My name is James Perry. 448 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,100 I go by Jim. 449 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:55,720 I appreciate your time. 450 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,160 I thank you for letting me come and discuss this with you. 451 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,880 I want to start off what I'm saying is I'm not here to try to keep these people from 452 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,880 building apartments. 453 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,240 That's not my job. 454 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:17,500 What I'm here to do is ask that everybody play on a fair playing field, and to get right 455 00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:31,240 into it, according to the requirements of the Denton Development Code, Section 2.4.5.E 456 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:37,480 shall be satisfied in order to obtain staff approval. 457 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,880 Now, you can approve staff approval whenever you want. 458 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,120 It happened to be in the first. 459 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:56,800 But they have not satisfied these things that they were just discussing prior to staff approval. 460 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:06,880 So all I'm asking is rather than just us allowing someone to come in and say, "Whoa, I've got 461 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,320 staff approval." 462 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,960 So all of these things were met. 463 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,240 No, they're not. 464 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:25,160 It shall be satisfied in order to obtain the staff approval, had been satisfied, satisfied, 465 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,980 and I'm satisfied. 466 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:29,240 The builder will be satisfied. 467 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,960 But to give the builder an opportunity to come in at a later date and say, "Oh, but 468 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,840 we already had an approval. 469 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800 So we need to be able to mitigate this. 470 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,360 We need to be able to change that, and we need to be able to do this or that or the 471 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,320 other before final plaque." 472 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,560 That's neither here nor there. 473 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:53,920 You didn't have the approval according to the development code. 474 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,040 And that's all I'm asking for you to do. 475 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:04,120 Yes, I've pointed out several things in my appeal because there are several things that 476 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:09,440 meet in that needs to shall be met. 477 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:17,920 And so what I'm asking is that these things be met or you have something in writing that 478 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:28,200 says prior to you getting any final approval, this is going to be met. 479 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,720 Rather than say, "Oh, we already give you approval, so we'll let it go." 480 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,680 I was in the building industry. 481 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:42,280 I've seen many a neighborhood and I've seen trees taken down. 482 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:50,480 Yes, they're saying that they're going to leave 30% or 23% of the trees. 483 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,480 That's fine. 484 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,480 No problem. 485 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,160 That's not going to happen. 486 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,860 There's going to be a reason. 487 00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:58,620 They will waste that property. 488 00:29:58,620 --> 00:30:03,680 It will not have any trees other than maybe two or three and the reason that those will 489 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:10,640 be left is because there will be a danger of the construction people accidentally falling 490 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,640 it on one of my neighbor's homes or mine. 491 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:24,520 So since that's the case, there is a renumeration that is going to have to be made to the city 492 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,200 of Denton for their tree fund. 493 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:33,920 I would like it to be noted that if they don't do what they're saying they're going to do 494 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:44,000 with this percentage, that they will pay the money prior to any approval to build. 495 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,080 That isn't anything that I'm asking. 496 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120 I'm not a tree hugger. 497 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,720 I like trees. 498 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,920 I got plenty of trees in my yard. 499 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,200 That's not the point. 500 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,160 The point is Mother Nature built these trees. 501 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:05,680 It took her 50 to 75 years to build these trees. 502 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,080 Just because a developer wants to come in and knock them down so he can build this thing 503 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,000 is another thing. 504 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,680 Now on that fire code thing, it's great. 505 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,720 No problem. 506 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,280 There is going to be access. 507 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:31,800 But you better have the fire next to the buildings that it's facing because that's where the 508 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:39,840 26 foot access is and it will take every inch of that to be able to put out the stabilizers 509 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,720 for the fire truck to be able to get that ladder up on the thing. 510 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,680 If you have it on the backside, too bad. 511 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,020 There are people's lives that are in danger. 512 00:31:53,020 --> 00:32:00,520 Now what I would like you to do is to give some serious consideration to the fact that 513 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:06,800 I'm not trying to prevent these people from building. 514 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:16,620 I'm just asking that there be some qualifications before we're going to allow this to go through. 515 00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:20,060 You have to have this done. 516 00:32:20,060 --> 00:32:24,440 Not for my rule, but for yours. 517 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:36,440 Your rule says shall be satisfied in order to obtain staff approval. 518 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,720 I don't see how clear that could get. 519 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:49,360 Shall be satisfied before staff approval. 520 00:32:49,360 --> 00:33:00,920 Now as far as my neighborhood is concerned, I'm all for having a builder come in behind 521 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,920 me. 522 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,540 But they're not going to build a quality of building that you're thinking that they're 523 00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:08,720 going to build. 524 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:15,480 The streetscape, the view of this property that you're going to see that you see up there 525 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:23,480 in those drawings is facing a 40-year-old mall, the back of it. 526 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,000 The back of it has dumpsters. 527 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,660 It has places where trucks are going in and out and putting things. 528 00:33:31,660 --> 00:33:38,360 They're saying it's going to be an upper end for the medical profession to be able to live. 529 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,300 My granddaughter is going to be a doctor. 530 00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:43,640 She wouldn't live there. 531 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:51,360 Now I'm not saying that that's wrong, but I'm saying that let's look at this thing from 532 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:59,720 realism that is going to be a hard to lease area. 533 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,240 Very hard to lease. 534 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,120 I've leased places before. 535 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,360 I've sold places before. 536 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,180 Many of them for lots of very reputable builders. 537 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:15,280 That place would be a nightmare to me, but that is not my problem. 538 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,280 That's theirs. 539 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:24,760 I'm all for them having it as long as they do the shall be met. 540 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:31,880 If you hadn't put that in there, my case wouldn't be quite as strong, but since you did, do 541 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,640 what you said you would hold them to. 542 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,140 That's all I'm asking. 543 00:34:36,140 --> 00:34:41,920 I thank you for your time. 544 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,200 Are there any questions for Mr. Perry before he ... Yep. 545 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,240 Mr. Perry, would you mind coming back briefly, please? 546 00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:47,240 We've got a question. 547 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:48,240 Go ahead. 548 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:52,560 Hi, Mr. Perry. 549 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,880 I just want to make sure I'm understanding your case, so I just have a question or two 550 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,880 if that's all right. 551 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,520 First of all, I just want to clarify. 552 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,400 What you're saying is, all of the criteria that is presented in the development code, 553 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,520 there are some things that have not yet been satisfied, and so you feel that because they've 554 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:17,440 not yet been satisfied, that even the site plan should not have been approved. 555 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,440 Is that what I'm understanding? 556 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:30,020 Well, what I'm saying is, according to what your rule says, 2.4.5.E of the Denton Development 557 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:38,280 Code shall be satisfied prior to staff approval. 558 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,600 Now, the staff has approved it. 559 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,040 The first part, right? 560 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,600 It has had staff approval. 561 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,600 Yes, sir. 562 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:53,240 Now, I'm not a city engineer, and I'm not a city attorney, and I don't know what your 563 00:35:53,240 --> 00:36:01,540 definition of staff approval means, but my definition of staff approval is when it's 564 00:36:01,540 --> 00:36:09,440 approved by the staff, which for some reason, they're defending that recommendation and 565 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,440 that approval. 566 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,440 Sure. 567 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:12,440 Okay. 568 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,440 Okay. 569 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,440 I appreciate that clarification. 570 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,960 So along those lines, I heard, I'm also not a developer, an engineer, anything like that. 571 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:25,500 So I heard the International Fire Code, for example, has specific standards for the width 572 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:31,740 that they need to have a fire lane, and what I also heard just from a factual basis is 573 00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:40,080 that the site plans exceed those recommendations, but you were describing how if there's a fire, 574 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,180 it should be on the front of the apartment complex, not the back, and so I just wonder, 575 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:51,720 what are your thoughts about the International Fire Code specifying a particular standard 576 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,120 if you're feeling like that standard is wrong or if you can just clarify? 577 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,120 No, no. 578 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,120 The standard is right. 579 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,120 Okay. 580 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,600 However, there are two types of fire trucks that come. 581 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:09,000 They're average in width of 10 feet, but when you stick 16 feet of stay insurance out beside 582 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:18,080 the fire truck, it just became 26 feet that can only be done on the front of that building. 583 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,020 The back of the building only has 24. 584 00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:22,020 Okay. 585 00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:23,020 That's my concern. 586 00:37:23,020 --> 00:37:24,020 Okay. 587 00:37:24,020 --> 00:37:25,020 Thank you. 588 00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:26,020 Thank you. 589 00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:27,020 Yeah. 590 00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:28,020 I'm just understanding. 591 00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:29,020 I appreciate it. 592 00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:33,960 Are there any questions for Mr. Perry? 593 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:34,960 I have a question. 594 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,440 Can I ask a question of staff at this moment because he was talking about trees? 595 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,000 Am I out of order for that? 596 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,360 There's a general question period after- 597 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,360 All right. 598 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,360 I'll save my questions. 599 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,240 I'll probably have more questions by the time you get up there anyway, so okay. 600 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,360 Mr. Perry, were there other people in your party? 601 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:55,360 Yes. 602 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,360 Okay. 603 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,360 Thank you. 604 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,360 Please take the stand. 605 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,240 If you wouldn't mind stating your name and your address, please, for the record, and 606 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:01,240 how much time- 607 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:04,240 Let me get just a moment to set up, if I may. 608 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:05,240 Sure. 609 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:06,240 All right. 610 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,240 You have 10 minutes. 611 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:13,280 Is this where you want your material passed up? 612 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,280 Pardon me? 613 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,280 Is this where you want your material passed up? 614 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,280 Yes. 615 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,280 Please. 616 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,280 Please. 617 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,280 Please. 618 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,280 If we could do that ahead of time, that'd be really nice. 619 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,280 By the way, thank you for your time. 620 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,280 I appreciate it. 621 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,280 Thank you. 622 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:46,360 Whenever you're ready, sir, you'll have 10 minutes. 623 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:47,360 Thank you. 624 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:48,360 My name is Jerry Drake. 625 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,400 I live at 2504 Shiloh Road. 626 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,200 I am Mr. Perry's neighbor. 627 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,120 Some of you may know me from 31 years with the city attorney's office. 628 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:05,120 My house is not within the 200 feet, so I could not be an appellant in this case, but 629 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,880 I would have been if I could, and I can be a witness. 630 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,760 Let me just go through what the meat of this is. 631 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,400 The staff has prepared, well, Mr. Perry prepared an appeal. 632 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,460 That's exhibit number five that the city's already given you. 633 00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:34,000 The staff has done a reply at exhibit two, and we've done a reply to the staff reply. 634 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:40,040 That's exhibit 18, and that's in that packet that has just been given out to you. 635 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:46,640 So where the staff has gone through and replied to certain parts of the appeal, we've replied 636 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:52,120 to certain parts of the staff reply, and I know that you haven't had a chance to read 637 00:39:52,120 --> 00:40:00,640 exhibit 18, and I just want to tell you that my biggest concern here is the unqualified 638 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:06,960 approval of the zoning compliance plan, and Mr. Perry alluded to that already. 639 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,760 Now, why is that a problem? 640 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:16,480 If you have exhibit 18 handy, I invite you to turn to the last page of it. 641 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,920 Elements of staff approval are mandatory. 642 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,920 It says shall. 643 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,720 Maybe they get reviewed later also, as in at the time of planning, but they shall be 644 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,360 reviewed now as a condition of approval. 645 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:37,360 That's the plain English mandate of counsel to staff, and a lot of people talk about legal 646 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,320 ease and about how attorneys get too complicated. 647 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:49,520 This is plain English here that I'm talking about, and if these are reviewed later at 648 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:57,280 the time of planning, that's fine, but 245E says they get reviewed now also, and that's 649 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,360 the mandate of the counsel. 650 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:11,120 I know the staff in their exhibit number two says that the review will be at the required 651 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,520 level of detail for submittal. 652 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,680 That doesn't mean they get to delay it. 653 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:22,000 That means that if they require a certain level of detail, that has to be satisfied. 654 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,600 What level is required by 245E4? 655 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,080 It says shall comply unless the standard is to be lawfully modified. 656 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,160 Submit number four is the submittal. 657 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:42,880 Where in the application to lawfully modify the standard, and where is the status of that? 658 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:52,320 Where does it say in there, where is the application to modify the fire access or all these other 659 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,320 things? 660 00:41:53,320 --> 00:42:01,960 If they're going to rely upon the language there at 245E4B, then that application should 661 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,960 be already here. 662 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:11,080 245F I think is important because it allows the imposition of conditions qualifying this 663 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,080 approval. 664 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,720 Perhaps staff could have gotten where they wanted to get it if they had put some conditions 665 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:16,840 on here. 666 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:24,240 If they had said, we're approving this conditioned upon you demonstrating that you have this 667 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:31,320 secondary fire access, and maybe conditioning it at a certain point in time, but they didn't. 668 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,120 They gave an unqualified approval. 669 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:44,400 If you look at the approval that they gave, there's nothing on there that in any way qualifies 670 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,400 this approval. 671 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,640 Let me turn to that real quick. 672 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,160 That's exhibit number three. 673 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,480 There's not one single condition or qualification stated on this. 674 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,920 It just says it is approved. 675 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:09,120 There's nothing that says that, oh, well, we're going to wait until planning to look 676 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,120 at this other issue. 677 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,880 It just says it is approved. 678 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,480 What does it mean in plain English to get unqualified approval of an application? 679 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,360 It means that all necessary elements have been satisfied. 680 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,280 Otherwise it'd be a denial, or at least a qualified approval. 681 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,160 Exhibit three is neither. 682 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:33,040 Under Texas law, developers are allowed to rely upon prior permit approvals. 683 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,880 Let me say that again. 684 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:43,680 Under Texas law, developers are entitled to rely upon prior permit approvals. 685 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:50,800 If this is approved and not challenged, there is a very distinct possibility that the developer 686 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:56,040 will assert that they've already met these standards, they've already met these requirements. 687 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,160 How do we know this? 688 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:04,520 Because your permit was granted without any kind of qualification. 689 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,080 At Platting, the only issues comply with the code. 690 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,120 There's no public hearing. 691 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,000 Our neighborhood doesn't matter at the time of Platting. 692 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,440 What's going to happen if the plan is later denied on one of the grounds that's required 693 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,600 for this approval? 694 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,720 That's a rhetorical question. 695 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:22,740 If we don't speak up now, our opportunity is gone. 696 00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:25,440 This plan is dangerous. 697 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,920 I'm really not going to talk about trees or things like that. 698 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,620 I'm talking about fire access and people who could lose their lives. 699 00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:41,320 Why is Denton splitting hairs in the fire code to reach the barest minimum of fire safety 700 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,840 issues? 701 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,400 Don't we deserve better than that? 702 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:53,960 Why is it that we picked the minimum for aerial access of 26 feet and then said, "You've got 703 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,880 to share that with all the other traffic." 704 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:04,480 408 cars trying to flee a burning building at the same time, is that unimpeded access 705 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,120 as the fire code requires? 706 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,640 I don't think it is. 707 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:17,140 Now, the other thing we mentioned is that the plan does not minimize adverse impacts 708 00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:18,240 upon our neighborhood. 709 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:19,900 How do we know this? 710 00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:23,720 This is one area where I strongly disagree with something that the city representative 711 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:24,720 said. 712 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,840 That the SUP is relevant. 713 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:32,800 It's relevant to show that what was offered up before was feasible. 714 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:40,960 If there is a feasible step that could be made to reduce the impacts upon our neighborhood, 715 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:46,720 then anything less than that is not minimizing the adverse impact. 716 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:48,560 That's what minimize means. 717 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:56,480 It means there is nothing that more strongly reduces the impact than what was provided. 718 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:03,120 Obviously, that's not the case because the SUP says there is. 719 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,920 So what do we do now? 720 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,880 We could reverse the approval. 721 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,120 Both PNZ and council paved that path already with the SUP. 722 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,120 They saw the fire access was inadequate. 723 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:23,640 They saw these other issues, and bear in mind, staff recommended that SUP before it was rejected 724 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,240 by council and PNZ. 725 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:31,280 So the staff recommendation doesn't mean anything here. 726 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,480 We've got prior applications on this very same site that were turned down for that very 727 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:43,040 same reason, for inadequate access, people not having a second way out. 728 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,240 Where is that easement? 729 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:49,400 Where is that permission from Brookhaven? 730 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,680 Why don't we have it now? 731 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:57,060 Why wasn't that required before this approval was given? 732 00:46:57,060 --> 00:46:58,060 This is awkward. 733 00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:02,340 Staff, our friends and colleagues, I've known Haley throughout. 734 00:47:02,340 --> 00:47:05,840 She's been transparent with me, and I hope she recognized I've been transparent with 735 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:06,840 her. 736 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,240 I think if she were here tonight, she would say so. 737 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:13,280 We have to challenge this. 738 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:20,760 It's our only opportunity to do so, because if we don't, then the developer will be entitled 739 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:25,600 to rely upon this prior approval. 740 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,360 What got approved? 741 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:35,540 Everything that wasn't conditioned in Exhibit 3, and there's no conditions in Exhibit 3. 742 00:47:35,540 --> 00:47:43,080 This might just be a situation where 245 should be amended, and maybe what the staff wants 743 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:48,440 245 to say isn't what it actually does say. 744 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,080 This may be something that they need to take a look at. 745 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,680 Thanks so much. 746 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:56,680 Thank you, Mr. Drake. 747 00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:02,560 Are there any questions for Mr. Drake at this time? 748 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:08,560 Thank you for your time. 749 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,480 Who would like to go next? 750 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,640 There's a whole order, like a batting order. 751 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,640 Thank you. 752 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,640 Where is that page? 753 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,640 This one. 754 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:20,640 Thank you. 755 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,640 Two more. 756 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:35,680 It's a whole lot of pages. 757 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:42,400 Thanks for your time. 758 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,400 Got it. 759 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:44,400 Okay. 760 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,400 Thank you. 761 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,400 All right. 762 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,240 So you must be the property owner. 763 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:49,240 Yes. 764 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:51,000 And your name and address for the record, please? 765 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:58,200 That's Vanzant 512 West Hickory in Denton, Texas, and I do represent the owner of Pinnacle 766 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:04,600 Development, represented by Ms. Angel Liu, who is here tonight, and our engineering team, 767 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,520 McAdams Engineering, Josh Barton and Randy Rivera. 768 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,080 They've done most of the hard work on this, many applications that have come before the 769 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,520 city on this. 770 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,800 And thank you again, Madam Chairman and Board, for being here tonight and for Haley's hard 771 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,620 work in preparing the material and the staff's work in presenting it. 772 00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:27,160 We appreciate getting this meeting called together as quickly as they can. 773 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,200 Of course, time is of the essence to us. 774 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:36,320 We came to the city going on two years now, November of 2020, with our first pre-development 775 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:37,320 meeting. 776 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:43,280 And again, I've been a friend and colleague of Jerry's for many years, so I have a lot 777 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,280 of respect for him. 778 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:50,720 And I'd say I'll only bring up the SUP insofar as Mr. Drake did, that you'll indicate and 779 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:56,440 I'll just, rather than try to remember what occurred at the meeting back in October, I'll 780 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:04,200 just read quickly what was in your agenda material, where Haley summarized that said, 781 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:09,920 with the SUP request, an approximately 60-foot building height was proposed to allow for 782 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:16,280 more compact building footprint and a greater preservation of the existing trees on site. 783 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,360 I wish Mr. Drake had supported it that night. 784 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:25,520 He didn't, along with a good portion of that neighborhood, but as far as attempted mitigation, 785 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:32,000 we did attempt that back in October of last year and failed. 786 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:38,280 That's why we're here tonight with the zoning rights that we had on the property previously. 787 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:44,520 So that was the reason for, that's the only context in which I'll bring up the SUP, and 788 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:50,980 as Mr. McDonald said, it's not relevant. 789 00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:59,000 Also the appellant mentioned, quoted the staff approval standard. 790 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,880 Staff approval is given at different phases of any development. 791 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,260 And I think it's inaccurate to say that there are no conditions on the zoning compliance 792 00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:11,560 letter that we received because it clearly states that we will have to go through preliminary 793 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,440 plotting process, civil engineering plans, and final plan process. 794 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,960 And those are all going to by virtue of the documents that were submitted as part of the 795 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:25,840 zoning compliance plan, that is going to require two points of access. 796 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,160 We're going to build the fire lanes just like everybody else in the city is required to 797 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,160 build. 798 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,680 We haven't asked for any variances on this as far as I know, throughout the entire process. 799 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,760 We're certainly not asking for any tonight. 800 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:44,400 We're asking that we be allowed to build the use that we have for that property under the 801 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,480 city standards that are in place at the time we applied. 802 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,360 That's simply all we're asking. 803 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,520 I think the city did a very exhaustive job of going through while all those standards 804 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:54,520 were met. 805 00:51:54,520 --> 00:52:01,100 But I did want to be here just to, Juan, thank you, and to let you know that obviously there's 806 00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:07,120 an, though we're not strictly a party to this, there's an affected landowner who's, you know, 807 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:13,860 in this volatile market, delays are critical, timing is critical, and, you know, we're affected 808 00:52:13,860 --> 00:52:17,960 by delays, and we appreciate your consideration tonight. 809 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:24,200 So that's all I, we're available for any questions, but I don't have any additional speakers for 810 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,200 our side. 811 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,200 Madam Chairman, unless you have questions. 812 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,200 Thank you. 813 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:28,200 Are there any questions? 814 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,200 Okay. 815 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,200 Thank you. 816 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:31,200 Oh, sorry. 817 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,200 Did you have a question? 818 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,680 Oh, no. 819 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:36,680 Sorry. 820 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:37,680 Okay. 821 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:38,680 Okay. 822 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:39,680 Got it. 823 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:40,680 Thank you. 824 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:41,680 Appreciate it. 825 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:42,680 Thank you. 826 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:43,680 Okay. 827 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,840 We are now entering the rebuttal phase. 828 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,940 And so, Mr. Perry, that would be your party. 829 00:52:52,940 --> 00:52:57,000 If you'd like to speak for another two minutes to clear up anything, or Mr. Drake, since you're 830 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,720 part of that party as well, you'll each have two minutes. 831 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:01,720 Madam Chair, can we have the privilege of last rebuttal? 832 00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:02,720 This is where the embeller... 833 00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:03,720 Sorry. 834 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:04,720 Come up to the speakers so we can save it for the record. 835 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:05,720 Sorry. 836 00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:06,720 How does that... 837 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:29,860 Okay. 838 00:53:29,860 --> 00:53:33,960 So my understanding, Mr. Drake, is that this game plan was presented to all parties prior 839 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,240 to the meeting with approval from all parties. 840 00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:38,240 So we're gonna stay in order. 841 00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:39,240 No, ma'am. 842 00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:41,040 It was not approved by all parties. 843 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:46,520 And I specifically addressed this question to Ms. Zagurski by email. 844 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:53,800 And typically in an appeal, if you... 845 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,960 We need six votes here out of six to overturn a staff decision. 846 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,200 That's a big burden. 847 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:11,320 And it's only fair that we follow the traditional standard in an appeal that the party with 848 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:16,840 that burden of proof have the final rebuttal. 849 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:26,960 Okay, all right. 850 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:34,080 So staff has indicated they'd be open to this if... 851 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,080 Yes, ma'am. 852 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,080 Absolutely. 853 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:37,080 We're meatable. 854 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:38,080 And the... 855 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:39,080 Yes. 856 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:40,080 Property owner, are you okay with that too? 857 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,080 Yeah? 858 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,080 Okay. 859 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,080 So I'm not sure who goes next then. 860 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,080 So we've got our rebuttal. 861 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:45,080 Okay. 862 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:46,080 That's fine. 863 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:47,080 Okay. 864 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:48,080 Scott. 865 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:49,080 All right. 866 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,080 Sorry, Chair. 867 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,080 Thank you. 868 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:52,080 Go ahead. 869 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:53,080 Okay. 870 00:54:53,080 --> 00:55:04,200 I have just a couple of points and I guess primarily I want to start out with the shall 871 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:11,080 as Mr. Drake had outlined that shall means that we shall. 872 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:18,520 And I will specify that no zoning compliance plan or very few zoning compliance plans if 873 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:24,200 any could be approved in the city of Denton ever if we lend ourselves to strict adherence 874 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,040 of shall. 875 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:30,160 This zoning compliance plan could never be built because there would never be two points 876 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,260 of access. 877 00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:33,920 There wouldn't be fire department access. 878 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:48,560 So the second bullet, there's point A and point B, excuse me, A speaks to that they 879 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,440 shall be in compliance with the DDC. 880 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,440 The second point, and I want to read that clearly, compliance with these standards is 881 00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,360 applied at the level of detail required for the subject submittal. 882 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,960 So it's important to note, as I illustrated in the beginning, the outline for the typical 883 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:13,780 development review process is that we take these in order and someone cannot proceed 884 00:56:13,780 --> 00:56:18,080 to the next step without going through the process. 885 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,940 No one would ever be able to build, even if they are vested in something with an approval, 886 00:56:22,940 --> 00:56:26,960 the approval won't get them anywhere if they can't get through the preliminary plat, the 887 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,360 civil engineering plants or anything else. 888 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:35,580 So the shall would prevent any zoning compliance plan on any green field development from being 889 00:56:35,580 --> 00:56:38,760 built because there may not be access at that point in time. 890 00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,200 There would not be a roadway for fire department access to be provided with. 891 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,400 So they're proposing to build that. 892 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:46,960 We agree to that. 893 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,300 That's what's shown on the plans. 894 00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:50,080 That's what we expect on a preliminary plat. 895 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,380 That's what we expect on civil engineering plans. 896 00:56:52,380 --> 00:56:55,700 So we say in context, it meets the intent of the code. 897 00:56:55,700 --> 00:56:56,700 We agree with that. 898 00:56:56,700 --> 00:57:01,800 That is the purpose and that overview, that 30,000 foot view, and as we get into the details 899 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,500 and greater portions of that. 900 00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:09,380 I also want to add to keep in mind that we have professional staff that have been doing 901 00:57:09,380 --> 00:57:15,600 their profession and those reviews go through our engineering, our fire, our planning, our 902 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,440 building a variety. 903 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:19,440 Thank you. 904 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:20,440 Thank you. 905 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:21,440 Time is up. 906 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,440 This is so messy. 907 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,040 Let's finish the bottles and then do the rest. 908 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,040 Yeah. 909 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,040 That's what I was thinking too. 910 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,040 Right. 911 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,040 Go ahead. 912 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:32,040 Okay. 913 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,040 Again, Tina Fergans, Deputy Director of Development and Services. 914 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:37,960 So Mr. Drake makes an interesting point and I can't disagree with him more with respect 915 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:43,120 to Texas law and regarding under Texas law, developers are entitled to rely upon prior 916 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:44,120 approvals. 917 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,800 He's absolutely correct because the zoning compliance plan allows the developer rely 918 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,640 upon approval and that zoning compliance plan vests the development rights. 919 00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,280 So if the developer cannot meet all of the conditions and all of the notations contained 920 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,880 on the plan, then he's not going to be able to approve his project. 921 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,440 So there's no disagreement on our part there because of the fact that we know that that 922 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,600 zoning compliance plan vests development rights. 923 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,540 The other thing that I would like to point out is Mr. Perry was speaking to the fire 924 00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:14,160 lanes and there was some question. 925 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,200 He made a statement regarding the placement with respect to the placement of the fire 926 00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,640 lanes and so I just wanted to make sure that the Zoning Board of Adjustment understands 927 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,840 that here is the building footprint that is all shown here. 928 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,240 The fire lane is adjacent to the building for majority of the building. 929 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:34,040 The one exception would be there's a row of parking that's right here near the leasing 930 00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,040 center. 931 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,600 But otherwise, this entire building is encapsulated by the fire lane system. 932 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,840 The fire lane system, they're 24 feet in width. 933 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,480 We actually increased our standards subsequent to this plan being approved. 934 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,780 Again, our standard of the time was 20 minutes. 935 00:58:46,780 --> 00:58:52,160 This plan has 24 foot fire lanes on three sides, 26 foot width on the fourth side. 936 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,160 So it exceeded. 937 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,440 The reason why we have the wider fire lane widths is to be able to accommodate fire apparatus 938 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,220 being able to park within the fire lane, place their outriggers out, and then still allow 939 00:59:02,220 --> 00:59:04,040 for an ambulance to pass by. 940 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,400 If an ambulance can pass by the fire engine or the fire truck with their ladder extended, 941 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,360 then I can show you a typical vehicle can do so as well. 942 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,360 So thank you. 943 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:19,320 We're going to hold our questions until after the rebuttal phase. 944 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,120 Mr. Van Zandt, did you want to take the stand one more time? 945 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:23,120 No. 946 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:24,120 Okay. 947 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:25,120 Thank you. 948 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:26,120 All right. 949 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:31,280 Then it's back to the appellant party. 950 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,920 You'll each have two minutes. 951 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,160 No problem. 952 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,760 I appreciate what you're saying. 953 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:50,760 I just think that it's not feasible to do things sometimes in an order when you've got 954 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:55,160 written things of what you have to do. 955 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,240 When you have it in writing, you have to follow the writing. 956 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,320 But let's just leave that for a moment and let me just say one other thing because there's 957 01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:08,880 something that's far more important, and that's people's lives. 958 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:15,240 You've got 400 cars, a fire breaks out, people are scrambling. 959 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:22,660 The target people are young, they're frightened, they're trying to get out. 960 01:00:22,660 --> 01:00:26,240 They're not worried about anybody but themselves. 961 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:36,240 Then you've got a neighboring senior citizen home that those people are curious, and they're 962 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,960 going to walk out there to see what's going on. 963 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:50,600 Now with all that happening, that is dangerous, extremely dangerous, and those people's lives 964 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,520 are up to this group. 965 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,400 That's what I've got to say. 966 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:14,360 Let's see, is the overhead document cam working by chance? 967 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,600 There's a modification of a slide that I put up for the SUP. 968 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,240 It's modified to show the current plan. 969 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:26,600 It has a number of quotes from the fire code, "A fire lane is not necessarily intended for 970 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,080 vehicular traffic other than fire apparatus." 971 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:35,360 I think that's particularly true when you're at the bare minimum, and I think that I can 972 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:39,960 illustrate that here with this D105.2. 973 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:49,280 Aerial fire apparatus row shall have a minimum unobstructed width of 26 feet. 974 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:54,640 How can it be unobstructed if it's shared with vehicles that are fleeing a fire? 975 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:55,960 It can't. 976 01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:03,000 That's why you need to have a separate access for the people going in and out from what 977 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:11,320 the fire department has, or you need to have it wider than the bare minimum of 26 feet. 978 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,580 Why does it need to be 26 feet? 979 01:02:13,580 --> 01:02:18,200 Because of the outriggers that come out from the fire engine, because of the ladder that 980 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,960 comes out perpendicular to the fire truck. 981 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:28,600 Again, please take a look at Exhibit 18 as you deliberate, because it has more of a point 982 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:37,560 by point rebuttal to what Mrs. Fergens had talked about, and I was not able to go into 983 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:38,560 that here. 984 01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:39,560 Thanks so much. 985 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:40,560 Thank you. 986 01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:48,480 I'd like to open up to the public hearing next. 987 01:02:48,480 --> 01:03:07,040 We'll ask a few questions for the parties and then hear from the public. 988 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:08,600 I saw a couple of hands up earlier. 989 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,380 Are there questions thus far? 990 01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:19,440 I think this will be either for Scott or Tina, I'm not totally sure. 991 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,420 I've got two separate questions. 992 01:03:22,420 --> 01:03:33,720 One is related to Mr. Perry's comments earlier about the landscaping plan, which were about 993 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:39,120 the concern that at the stage with which the trees would be removed, that would have been 994 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:44,040 after construction would have commenced, which means things would have been improved, platted, 995 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,300 all the good things, right? 996 01:03:45,300 --> 01:03:52,200 He mentioned that basically he feels that most of the trees will be removed and they 997 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:56,000 will have to be replaced and things won't happen according to the plan, that there's 998 01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,880 a renumeration plan or fee that has to be paid when that happens. 999 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,720 I'm assuming they would have to replace the trees that were removed that weren't part 1000 01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,400 of the plan and then they would have to pay the city, is that accurate? 1001 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:10,400 Yes. 1002 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,160 I'm going to probably just provide a very simple answer. 1003 01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,920 There is one tool in our toolbox that we use when necessary, and that's called a certificate 1004 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,640 of occupancy. 1005 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:27,560 No one can occupy or use a building until they comply with all the laws, rules, ordinances, 1006 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,520 and then if we have any outstanding fees. 1007 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:35,960 We do have the mechanism they could build a multimillion dollar project and not occupy 1008 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:42,360 that project if they owe us money for let's say a tree that was cut down that they needed 1009 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:43,360 to mitigate. 1010 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:44,360 Got it. 1011 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,520 There is a scenario in which all those trees could accidentally be knocked down, they would 1012 01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:52,480 all have to be replaced, and fees would have to be paid based on that meeting, the initial 1013 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:58,400 aspect of the approved plan, but either way, according to our understanding, they would 1014 01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,600 still have to be there, they wouldn't be able to occupy, and they would have to pay the 1015 01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,240 city essentially. 1016 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:08,720 Even a step further to that, that if that occurred during construction, we ultimately 1017 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:14,080 would likely have a stop work that would be issued, so they wouldn't even get to the point 1018 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,720 where they'd be ready for a certificate of occupancy. 1019 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,320 We would recognize what that is and ultimately stop the project, and that happens on a regular 1020 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:22,320 basis for us. 1021 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,320 Got it. 1022 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,600 I have a second part to that, but that's resolved in my mind. 1023 01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,520 The second piece is related to the fire code. 1024 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:33,880 I know we've gone in depth as far as the minimum requirement being 20 feet, and in three areas 1025 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,040 it's 24, one is 26. 1026 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,880 I know this is not your exhibit, this is the appellant's exhibit, but in the code that 1027 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,880 we just saw, which is the 2012 international fire code with reference to the 26 feet, is 1028 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,520 that the correct code that we're talking about today, the exhibit that was just provided, 1029 01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:49,960 or is that a separate code? 1030 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,200 I know it's not your exhibit. 1031 01:05:52,200 --> 01:06:00,760 They're really the same, the 2021, the 2012, as it relates to the fire code defining what 1032 01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:06,520 a fire lane is and what a fire apparatus road is, which includes all types and vehicular 1033 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:07,520 traffic. 1034 01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:08,520 Okay. 1035 01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:13,240 The with scenario is that the older version of the code was at 20 feet. 1036 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:18,640 We have now advanced that to 24 feet, and that's what the applicant had proposed on 1037 01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:20,520 their plans in advance of. 1038 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,440 Understood. 1039 01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:23,440 Thank you. 1040 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,440 Okay. 1041 01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:25,440 Thank you. 1042 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:26,440 Any other questions? 1043 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:27,440 Jennifer, go ahead. 1044 01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,320 Yes, I'm not sure who to address this to, perhaps the appellant, because- 1045 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:31,320 The mic. 1046 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:32,320 Oh, yes. 1047 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,920 It's on, but I'm just not facing it. 1048 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:44,680 There's mention on the adapted slide from your slide, but with appellant's adaptations 1049 01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:50,280 of a locked gate and it not being appropriate access in an emergency, and I'm not sure who 1050 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:51,280 was addressing that. 1051 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:57,840 It hadn't come up as yet, what that means and why that's there. 1052 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,560 So was this in relation to the specific use permit plan or the zoning compliance plan 1053 01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:03,560 with the exhibit being- 1054 01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,920 This is actually in perhaps better addressed to the appellant to explain. 1055 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:08,920 Okay. 1056 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:09,920 Okay. 1057 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:10,920 Or- 1058 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:16,520 We'll put that back on the overhead, please. 1059 01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,240 What is this in reference to? 1060 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:24,400 So it is, so as it relates to, so I see on the exhibit that the appellant has made a 1061 01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,960 reference to a locked gate is not appropriate access in emergency. 1062 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:33,120 So here in Denton, we do allow for a second point of ingress egress for emergency purposes 1063 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,680 only to be gated. 1064 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,600 They typically have a NOC system that's located on it. 1065 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:44,760 So if the fire apparatus does have to enter the property from that particular location, 1066 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,380 and with the NOC system, there are a variety of tools that can be used. 1067 01:07:48,380 --> 01:07:51,440 One has an Opticom component, which is a little bit more advanced. 1068 01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,120 Others are a NOC SPOC that has a key within it that allows the fire department to be able 1069 01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,120 to access it. 1070 01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,400 But that is a common practice, not only in Denton, but in many cities throughout the 1071 01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:00,400 region. 1072 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:01,400 Okay. 1073 01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:02,400 Thank you. 1074 01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:03,400 Go ahead. 1075 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:04,400 Another question. 1076 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:17,320 This is for staff, so you walked through the six stages, are we in the first stage, right? 1077 01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:18,320 Yes, sir. 1078 01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:25,560 And so I think, Mr. McDonnell, you mentioned that the, you know, the city has the right 1079 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,780 to withhold occupancy rights. 1080 01:08:28,780 --> 01:08:33,920 Are there other remedies, you know, if they don't get, if they don't get anything from 1081 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,520 the assisted living facility for that second easement? 1082 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:37,520 Are there? 1083 01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:38,520 Absolutely. 1084 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:44,560 So, so approving this one piece of it says, on the basis of what you've provided us, that 1085 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,220 you're going to provide this access, you can move to the next phase. 1086 01:08:48,220 --> 01:08:52,560 So as you see on the screen, you have number two, which is the preliminary plat, and so 1087 01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:53,700 on and so forth. 1088 01:08:53,700 --> 01:08:59,080 So at whatever point that does not occur, this project will cease because they can't 1089 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,560 get the next level of approvals. 1090 01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,040 It's not far beyond from the certificate of occupancy. 1091 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,360 Right. 1092 01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:11,560 So I mean, ultimately, building permit, like nothing starts until we've gone through these 1093 01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:12,560 five stages. 1094 01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:13,560 Correct. 1095 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:20,720 We have to have a final plat, which would then in turn have all of those easements reserved. 1096 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,480 And I would add on the final plat, it typically makes reference to, if there are any easements 1097 01:09:24,480 --> 01:09:28,600 that are dedicated offsite by separate instrument, then it provides the volume and page recordation 1098 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,240 information associated with it. 1099 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:34,860 So if anybody wanted to be able to verify whether or not that easement existed, and again, 1100 01:09:34,860 --> 01:09:40,700 this is whether it's access, it's sewer drainage, water, we would have the volume and page recordation 1101 01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:45,380 information so that they could go find that easement that was recorded or the separately 1102 01:09:45,380 --> 01:09:50,760 recorded document. 1103 01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,760 Any other questions? 1104 01:09:53,760 --> 01:10:02,800 Thank you. 1105 01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,200 Sir you've already had an opportunity to speak. 1106 01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,320 I do apologize, but this is a public hearing. 1107 01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,200 So I'd like to open the floor for anyone who hasn't had an opportunity to speak yet, if 1108 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:19,600 you'd like to address the board with any questions, comments, concerns, you will have three minutes. 1109 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,680 And sir, I don't think you were here when I saw everyone in. 1110 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,040 You used to go ahead and step up, but I do need to swear you in because of our- 1111 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,040 I got here late. 1112 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:28,040 Yeah, no, no worries. 1113 01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,040 Well, I heard the door was locked, so no worries. 1114 01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,720 So if you wouldn't mind raising your hand. 1115 01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,400 Under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you 1116 01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:39,840 provide or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct, to the 1117 01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:41,480 best of your knowledge and ability? 1118 01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:43,000 If so, please answer, I do. 1119 01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:44,000 I do. 1120 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,000 Thank you. 1121 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,840 And your name and address for the record, and you'll have three minutes. 1122 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:47,840 My name is Ken Gold. 1123 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:54,840 I live at 2512 Natchez Trace, a backup against this property here. 1124 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,480 I just got a couple of things I wanted to stress. 1125 01:10:57,480 --> 01:11:00,440 First off, this is a very special piece of property to begin with. 1126 01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:05,400 If you look at the overhead, this used to be part of a cross-tumbler upland habitat 1127 01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:07,920 associated with the Bucky's ESA. 1128 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:08,920 It's very fragile. 1129 01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:14,680 It contains a lot of wildlife, a lot of big post oaks, blackjack oaks. 1130 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:18,760 It's a very special piece of property that ought not to be treated this poorly in the 1131 01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:19,760 way it's doing. 1132 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:25,040 If you look at the drawings, there's a road that comes out of Bucky's that stops at that 1133 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:32,120 pond for a reason, and yet it lines up strangely perfectly with the one coming out of this project. 1134 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:33,120 There's a plan there. 1135 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:34,720 They're going to go over that. 1136 01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:43,240 They're going to require some scrambling to do some new ESA work on that piece of property. 1137 01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:50,200 The other thing, and I'll be very brief and be done, that access to the West, the emergency 1138 01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:56,240 access, they've been working on this for two years, and they haven't got it yet. 1139 01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,160 There's some kind of a problem. 1140 01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,520 You would think a big project, this much money, all this time, they'd have got that right 1141 01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:03,520 off. 1142 01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,200 That's a critical, and it'll kill it if they don't get it. 1143 01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,100 You'd think they'd put some effort in that and actually deliver something. 1144 01:12:09,100 --> 01:12:12,300 You could see in writing that there is an agreement. 1145 01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:13,300 Believe there is. 1146 01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:14,300 They've never showed it to us. 1147 01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:16,480 I don't believe there is one, and that's all I got. 1148 01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:17,480 Thank you. 1149 01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:19,800 Please deny this, but approve the appeal. 1150 01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,320 Thank you, sir. 1151 01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,120 Do you want to speak? 1152 01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,120 Come on up. 1153 01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,120 I've got to swear you in too, Christine. 1154 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,320 All right, ready? 1155 01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:36,360 Under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide 1156 01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:39,400 or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct to the best 1157 01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:40,400 of your knowledge and ability? 1158 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:41,400 If so, please answer, "I do." 1159 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:42,400 I do. 1160 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:43,400 Thank you. 1161 01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:44,400 Your name and address for the record, please. 1162 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,840 My name is Christine Bray, and I live at 1204 Cordell. 1163 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:53,840 I guess I just have some confusion that I would maybe like one of you all to address. 1164 01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,360 I live on Cordell Street. 1165 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,480 I've measured the width of the street myself. 1166 01:12:57,480 --> 01:13:03,360 It's 34 feet, and then there's side parking on each side, taking up about seven feet. 1167 01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:08,560 The street that I live on is 20 feet, which to me, you can't have more than 20 feet of 1168 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:15,080 filing in that, I guess, so I guess I just was hoping for clarification on why, say, 1169 01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,280 20 feet is not enough in general. 1170 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:21,580 Thank you, and staff had mentioned that, but you came in late, which is totally fine, so 1171 01:13:21,580 --> 01:13:22,580 if you wouldn't mind- 1172 01:13:22,580 --> 01:13:23,580 My tire got a flat on my bike. 1173 01:13:23,580 --> 01:13:24,580 No, no, it's good. 1174 01:13:24,580 --> 01:13:25,580 I'm glad you're here. 1175 01:13:25,580 --> 01:13:26,580 If you could answer that question for Christine, please. 1176 01:13:26,580 --> 01:13:27,580 I don't think this is part of this conversation this evening. 1177 01:13:27,580 --> 01:13:28,580 It's just another question, so staff can answer that off the record. 1178 01:13:28,580 --> 01:13:29,580 Am I correct in that? 1179 01:13:29,580 --> 01:13:30,580 Sounds good to me. 1180 01:13:30,580 --> 01:13:31,580 That's fair enough. 1181 01:13:31,580 --> 01:13:38,880 It has nothing to do with this project. 1182 01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:39,880 Sure. 1183 01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:40,880 That's fair enough. 1184 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:41,880 Yeah. 1185 01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:42,880 Okay. 1186 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:43,880 Thank you. 1187 01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:44,880 Thank you. 1188 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,600 Is there anyone else from the public who'd like to speak before I close the public hearing? 1189 01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,600 Okay. 1190 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,640 Hearing none, I'm gonna close the public hearing at 6.49 PM. 1191 01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:57,640 Yes. 1192 01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:05,100 Oh, I apologize, are there e-comment cards? 1193 01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:08,200 There are, Madam Chair, there are e-comment cards. 1194 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:09,200 There are a total of- 1195 01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,200 I apologize. 1196 01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:11,200 I wasn't aware. 1197 01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:12,200 Sorry. 1198 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:13,200 No, that is my fault. 1199 01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:14,200 Okay. 1200 01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,920 All eight are in, oppose the zoning compliance plan. 1201 01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:17,920 Okay. 1202 01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:18,920 Were there actual comments that could be read? 1203 01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:19,920 Yes, there are. 1204 01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:20,920 Great. 1205 01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:21,920 How long are they? 1206 01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:22,920 Great. 1207 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:33,840 Okay, I do, I mean, y'all, we work for you. 1208 01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:34,840 So I do wanna read these. 1209 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:36,680 They are fairly brief. 1210 01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:42,880 So the first one, Jennifer Danley Scott wrote, "The single entrance exit is a problem. 1211 01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,640 The emergency exit is into an assisted living parking lot. 1212 01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,240 In the event of a true emergency, the assisted living would evacuate. 1213 01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:56,200 A hundred cars unfamiliar with the route would likely hit a resident or staff member evacuating." 1214 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,760 Robert Harris also opposes. 1215 01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:03,640 They write, "This proposal appears to have several drawbacks, including problematic access 1216 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,800 for emergency vehicles, as well as for the residents of this proposed development. 1217 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,340 Impacts on the Southridge Estates development, where I live, of a multi-story building at 1218 01:15:12,340 --> 01:15:17,500 higher elevation, from which residents would look down on the one- and two-story houses 1219 01:15:17,500 --> 01:15:19,920 without much screening via fences, trees or buffers. 1220 01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,800 Also it's questionable how attractive the living space behind stores of a strip mall 1221 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:24,800 would be to residents." 1222 01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:28,160 Michelle Emick also opposes, "The developer is not a victim. 1223 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,200 The property was landlocked in 1995. 1224 01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:31,200 City staff are not victims. 1225 01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:36,480 They sidestepped the checks and balances system developed to protect residents enacted in 1226 01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:37,480 bad faith. 1227 01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:41,120 Most of us have lived in multifamily housing at one time. 1228 01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,240 Did it ever occur to you that an apartment complex in which you were living was allowed 1229 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,880 to be built without meeting fire safety codes? 1230 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,600 It didn't occur to me and I can't believe that's what's being proposed now. 1231 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:51,720 Residents deserve better than this." 1232 01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,680 Ken Gold also opposes, "Still no emergency easement after many months. 1233 01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:59,680 The tree mitigation plan is wholly inadequate for this upland habitat directly related to 1234 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:01,540 the Buckees ESA. 1235 01:16:01,540 --> 01:16:05,560 They failed to minimize impacts to the surrounding property and abandoned many site design features 1236 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:06,560 previously proposed. 1237 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:11,640 A six-foot wooden fence is laughably inadequate between private homes and a three-story apartment 1238 01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:15,640 building so close to the property line." 1239 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:20,640 Marilyn Newland opposes, "This project would be right next door to an assisted living facility 1240 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:24,480 where senior citizens would be disturbed by the additional noise and problems that apartments 1241 01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:25,480 bring. 1242 01:16:25,480 --> 01:16:29,000 It has only one entrance and exit safety issue. 1243 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:34,360 It would look directly into backyards of homes on Natchez Trace infringing on their privacy. 1244 01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:38,040 The value of the homes would be greatly affected by the apartments basically in their backyard. 1245 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:42,760 Developers trying to squeeze this into a much too small parcel to maintain good margins." 1246 01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:43,760 Was that all of them? 1247 01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:48,440 Madam Chair, I have three additional e-comments that came in by email. 1248 01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:49,440 Please, yeah. 1249 01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:50,440 Are they? 1250 01:16:50,440 --> 01:16:51,440 Like, I can read it for you. 1251 01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:52,440 I mean, I do. 1252 01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:56,200 I mean, they want, and I, 'cause they're, y'all don't need to hear this to make our 1253 01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:57,200 decisions, so. 1254 01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:58,760 So I'll start with the first one. 1255 01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:00,360 It is from Billy Casper. 1256 01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:04,960 "The Planning Department ignored numerous mandatory requirements documented in the City 1257 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,920 Ordinance when they approved the site plan. 1258 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,400 The Planning Department ignored the deficiency noted by the Planning Zoning Commission and 1259 01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:16,320 City Council that caused them to deny previous proposals by the developer that have the same 1260 01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:17,520 deficiencies. 1261 01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,520 The Planning Department ignored the 2012 International Fire Code, which the City has adopted and 1262 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:29,480 approved the proposed development despite known safety issues." 1263 01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:32,080 Second one is from Ann Berry. 1264 01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,920 "The proposed plan do not meet the fire code. 1265 01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,240 There is only one confirmed egress to the property. 1266 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:45,280 The speculated second egress proposes a great risk to the elderly residents of Brookdale. 1267 01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:50,040 The one available public entrance and exit is through an already overcrowded access road 1268 01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:56,240 that, with very fast moving merging traffic exiting the highway, the plans do not allow 1269 01:17:56,240 --> 01:18:01,960 adequate information regarding detention ponds that will be back to property owners. 1270 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:06,100 There is no plan in place to relocate existing wildlife." 1271 01:18:06,100 --> 01:18:12,480 And then the last e-comment that we received is from Kristen Roman. 1272 01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:16,840 "We are in opposition of the Millennium Crest project moving forward. 1273 01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:21,220 We feel that there have been numerous codes being violated and neglected in the development 1274 01:18:21,220 --> 01:18:26,120 of this project and our concern for the overall safety of our community, neighbors, and outcome 1275 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:27,120 of the project. 1276 01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:32,160 Furthermore, we stand with Jerry Perry and are in full support of his comments that you 1277 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,600 will hear today." 1278 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,240 Those are all the e-comments we received. 1279 01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,960 Great, thank you. 1280 01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,720 Was there anyone that called in? 1281 01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:41,720 No? 1282 01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:52,680 We can ask DTV if there are any callers waiting to speak? 1283 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:58,840 It does not sound like there is. 1284 01:18:58,840 --> 01:18:59,840 No? 1285 01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:00,840 No. 1286 01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:01,840 Okay. 1287 01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:03,660 So I'm really going to close the public hearing now at 6.54. 1288 01:19:03,660 --> 01:19:04,660 Thank you. 1289 01:19:04,660 --> 01:19:07,740 I think that's important, right, because I didn't see this. 1290 01:19:07,740 --> 01:19:12,480 You all didn't see this or hear this, so that's important for them to be heard, so you can 1291 01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:13,480 have that back. 1292 01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:14,480 Yes, Jennifer. 1293 01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:15,480 [inaudible] 1294 01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:16,480 That's true. 1295 01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:17,480 [inaudible] 1296 01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:18,480 That's true. 1297 01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:23,800 So we're not going to deliberate. 1298 01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:28,440 That comes in the second meeting, but I'm just wondering if there are any other questions 1299 01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:34,640 for the appellant, for any of the speakers, for staff before we close this public hearing. 1300 01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:39,160 We can maybe take a brief recess, and then we could reopen for deliberation, yes. 1301 01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:49,320 Sorry, I have one more question for staff related to the comments coming from Ken Gold 1302 01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:55,120 about the work that's been going on for months related to the emergency easement. 1303 01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:58,760 I'm just a little bit confused about that, because I know we talked about there is already 1304 01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:03,440 a paved area for where one of the emergency easements is going to go. 1305 01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:08,000 Is it under construction for this project already for the past eight months, or what 1306 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,840 is happening with that delay? 1307 01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:17,040 So the offsite or the second point of access into the development, so the pavement already 1308 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:23,880 exists today, but in order for folks to be able to drive across the neighbor's property, 1309 01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:28,000 you have to have an easement that grants that access, right? 1310 01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:33,560 So that is what the developer is still needing to obtain in order to be able to satisfy the 1311 01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,680 notation that is on the zoning compliance plan. 1312 01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:40,880 So the zoning compliance plan acknowledges that the access easement will be by a separate 1313 01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:44,920 instrument, so they have to finish that process of acquiring the easement to give them the 1314 01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,880 legal right to have the access across the neighbor's property. 1315 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:53,120 So the acquisition of the easement is actual construction that has been underway up to 1316 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:54,120 this point? 1317 01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:59,600 The actual acquisition of the easement is basically a paper document, so there might be funds 1318 01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:07,680 that are transferred, but no construction is occurring associated with the subject property 1319 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,440 nor any additional construction on the neighboring property either. 1320 01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:18,440 So the key thing is that they have to be able to secure the easement, right, which is done, 1321 01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:22,760 it's crafted on paper and then it's filed with record at the county to make it a legal 1322 01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,280 valid document. 1323 01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:29,060 And so they still have to work through obtaining that easement right and finishing that process 1324 01:21:29,060 --> 01:21:34,960 in order then to be able to eventually get a building permit to get under construction. 1325 01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,040 We would not allow them to get under construction without that easement. 1326 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:39,040 Okay. 1327 01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:43,480 I guess this may be a question for Mr. Golden because the reference to a project that's 1328 01:21:43,480 --> 01:21:48,280 been underway for like eight months that's delayed, there might be a problem in constructing 1329 01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:54,000 that easement because I'm confused. 1330 01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:59,280 So it might be helpful to note that there is actual access, like physically can I drive 1331 01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:04,440 a car from here to there, and then there's a legal right of access, which is is the property 1332 01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:10,600 owner going to permit me to use this piece of road in the case of a private road. 1333 01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,760 So it's my understanding that in the instance of the secondary fire access, what we're looking 1334 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:19,480 at is confirming legal right of access and so that's negotiating between two private 1335 01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:20,480 parties. 1336 01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:21,480 Go ahead. 1337 01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:22,480 Yes. 1338 01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:30,600 And so for this long, this length of time, the developer has not been able to secure 1339 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:31,600 that legal right. 1340 01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:33,600 Is that correct? 1341 01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:34,840 We don't know that. 1342 01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,120 We made that a requirement of what they have to do. 1343 01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:39,280 They submitted, said that's what they're going to do. 1344 01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:40,800 We don't know the answer to that question. 1345 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:45,080 So as yet, it has not been secured. 1346 01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:50,000 To my knowledge that easement has not been secured at that time, that might be an appropriate 1347 01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,000 question for the developer. 1348 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:55,760 Yes, exactly. 1349 01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:01,480 The only other thing I would add is that projects, some projects take quicker or take a shorter 1350 01:23:01,480 --> 01:23:03,720 amount of time to get under construction than others. 1351 01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,480 So for a variety of different reasons, in my opinion, that's not necessarily would be 1352 01:23:08,480 --> 01:23:13,800 something that is germane to me, the issue is whether or not the condition has been satisfied, 1353 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,720 which is designated on the zoning compliance plan that that easement would be granted by 1354 01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:18,720 separate instrument. 1355 01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:22,320 Again, there's no timing requirement associated with it other than they have to have it accomplished 1356 01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:24,320 before a building permit is issued. 1357 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:28,560 And the owner does not have to grant it as would be the case in eminent domain, correct? 1358 01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:30,040 The current owner does not. 1359 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:33,200 The current, the offsite owner, no, they don't have to grant it. 1360 01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:38,400 And if they do not grant it, then the plan would have to be amended to be able to illustrate 1361 01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:45,720 where they're going to obtain their offsite emergency access from for that second point. 1362 01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:52,200 And related to this, I'll also note that the zoning compliance letter does, does expire 1363 01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:58,680 in two years if we don't, if we don't make progress on the, finish the project. 1364 01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:00,960 We, we have been working diligently. 1365 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:05,960 We obviously were dealing with a, with an owner out of state corporation who has a lender 1366 01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:09,560 who also has to approve any, any easement transfer. 1367 01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:15,320 I think I can say with confidence that by the end of next week, we'll have that. 1368 01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:20,120 So it's certainly not something we've been sitting around doing nothing for two years. 1369 01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,320 That's, that's unfair and inaccurate. 1370 01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:27,040 We've been working diligently and should have it to the city for review very soon. 1371 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:28,480 Thank you. 1372 01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:35,280 I've got, I've got a question about the, the, the, the fire easements, yeah? 1373 01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:41,000 So I just, that seems to be the biggest concern. 1374 01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:46,200 Right now it looks like there's one entrance, but there's another one that will be locked. 1375 01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:53,080 And I just want to kind of clarify, what is the, the, the minimum that this property owner 1376 01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:55,480 must meet for fire access? 1377 01:24:55,480 --> 01:25:00,900 That seems to be like the, the biggest sticking point, biggest concern of, of these parties. 1378 01:25:00,900 --> 01:25:09,040 What is the minimum and, and does the site plan meet that? 1379 01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:10,960 The minimum is two. 1380 01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:16,920 So we ask for two, fire is asking for two, they're required to provide two, whether there 1381 01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:23,660 will or will not be two or three, whether there will be a locked gate or not is, is 1382 01:25:23,660 --> 01:25:24,660 in question. 1383 01:25:24,660 --> 01:25:28,400 However, that will have to be approved by the fire department. 1384 01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,920 The width, I think you referenced the width and the access around the building is very 1385 01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:37,720 similar to any other apartment structure that we have. 1386 01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:44,220 And so all of these things must comply with our fire code and is reviewed by fire personnel 1387 01:25:44,220 --> 01:25:48,880 in order to grant approvals in X of the, in each of the next phases as well as this phase. 1388 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:49,880 Got it. 1389 01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:56,900 So, so if, if they build all of these units and they just look beautiful and granite countertops 1390 01:25:56,900 --> 01:26:02,720 and everything's gorgeous, but they don't have the two access points, they won't get 1391 01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,320 final approval to actually move people in. 1392 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:06,320 They have to have. 1393 01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:07,320 And they wouldn't get that far. 1394 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:08,320 Yeah. 1395 01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:09,320 They would not get that far. 1396 01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:10,320 Okay. 1397 01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:11,320 So they wouldn't be under construction. 1398 01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,280 We will, we will have all of this ironed out prior to issuing the building permit. 1399 01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:19,840 So we're not going to put 400 people in this project with only one access point. 1400 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:20,840 It will have two. 1401 01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:21,840 Two. 1402 01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:22,840 Thank you. 1403 01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:23,840 I just wanted to clarify that. 1404 01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:24,840 Thank you. 1405 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:25,840 Yes, go ahead. 1406 01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:30,680 I have a question, the, the fire access situation has been discussed a great deal. 1407 01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:36,000 What came up that hasn't been discussed as much as the ESA and the connection to the 1408 01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,000 Bucky's ESA? 1409 01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:41,120 And I would love to hear something about that. 1410 01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:46,960 So I can, so I don't know if this is considered additional testimony or not. 1411 01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,120 So I would defer to the attorneys on that. 1412 01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,840 But it is in our staff analysis that it's addressed and was on the slide. 1413 01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,280 So I feel like it's appropriate for me to address it. 1414 01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,560 So the appellant claimed that there was ESA on the site in the staff written material 1415 01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:07,280 and on the slide we presented, the ESA did not exist when the original map was done and 1416 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,520 it's included in your attachments and explains it. 1417 01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:16,120 So when the original ESA, official ESA map of the city was adopted in like 1999, 2000, 1418 01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,360 it had originally designated this area. 1419 01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:22,440 What we found over time is that there were many areas that were incorrectly designated 1420 01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:23,440 as ESA. 1421 01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:29,440 And so upon further analysis, this ESA in the crossland, or excuse me, this ESA did 1422 01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:35,040 not exist in the crossland habitat or crossland upland habitat, excuse me, did not exist on 1423 01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:36,040 the property. 1424 01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:39,280 And so therefore the property is not subject to our ESA requirements. 1425 01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:44,920 It does not meet the minimum definition requirement for the contiguous 10 acres and with respect 1426 01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:46,960 to the trees that are located on the property. 1427 01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:52,600 So there's that ESA component and then there's also an alternate ESA consideration that would 1428 01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:59,040 have to be taken place off site if the Buckees development, their remaining undeveloped land, 1429 01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:03,400 if they extend Nugget Way eventually to the subject property, there's an alternate ESA 1430 01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:08,600 that would have to be done to allow for that pavement to go over that riparian buffer. 1431 01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:09,960 And that is approved by council. 1432 01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:10,960 Yeah. 1433 01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,640 Actually, I remember being on planning and zoning at that time when the ESA was being 1434 01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:20,600 seen at Buckees and I recall that case very well. 1435 01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:22,280 Mr. Jake, no one has called on you. 1436 01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:23,280 Can you please take us... 1437 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:24,280 I have a point of order because questions have been addressed to city staff and answered 1438 01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:25,280 and we disagree with those answers. 1439 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:26,280 And we should be allowed an opportunity to give our position as well in response to these 1440 01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:27,280 answers. 1441 01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:43,160 Otherwise, the only answer that this board is getting is the answer from the city representatives. 1442 01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:47,880 Also in fairness, I will say that at least one of my questions has been brought up, both 1443 01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:52,560 of them in fact, have been brought up by either exhibits or statements made by the appellant. 1444 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,640 So I wonder what they have to say about it. 1445 01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:55,640 Would you... 1446 01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:57,360 Because I feel like we've had the opportunity for a rebuttal. 1447 01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:01,400 If there is someone from CBA who would like to ask a direct question, because the questions 1448 01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:05,040 we've been asking have been staff questions, is there someone who would like to ask a question 1449 01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:06,040 of Mr. Drake? 1450 01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,040 Sure. 1451 01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:15,400 I would like to ask Mr. Drake to elaborate on the exhibit that you provided here. 1452 01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:21,180 Yep, I will. 1453 01:29:21,180 --> 01:29:22,180 This one. 1454 01:29:22,180 --> 01:29:23,180 Yes, ma'am. 1455 01:29:23,180 --> 01:29:25,120 The question was to you. 1456 01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,840 And then I would also like you to address the ESA question. 1457 01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:31,440 Yes. 1458 01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:37,920 I don't know that I'm able to address the ESA question myself, but I can address the 1459 01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:42,360 issue with this exhibit here. 1460 01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:44,680 And what was the question again? 1461 01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:49,320 No one had discussed the item of the locked gate and the danger proposed by that. 1462 01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:52,040 But staff did address that, but it's your exhibit. 1463 01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:57,680 Well, when someone calls in the fire alarm and people start trying to escape, they're 1464 01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:03,480 all going to be queued up on that same road trying to get out to save their lives. 1465 01:30:03,480 --> 01:30:09,160 They'll be trying to exit onto a one-way access road on I-35 that could be backed up for a 1466 01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:11,240 light or what have you. 1467 01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:15,160 Meanwhile, somebody from the fire department has to get to that locked gate. 1468 01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:16,640 How are they going to get there? 1469 01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:22,560 They're going to swim upstream past all of the 408 cars that are trying desperately to 1470 01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:23,560 leave. 1471 01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:30,720 And they can't get to that locked gate unless and until they can get past those cars and 1472 01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:35,960 get back there, get out the key to the Knox box, unlock the Knox box, pull the key out 1473 01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:39,380 of the Knox box, and then unlock the gate. 1474 01:30:39,380 --> 01:30:46,960 That's the danger here, and as far as the fire code is concerned, yes, the width for 1475 01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:53,520 aerial access, this is more than a 30-foot tall building that has to be 26 feet. 1476 01:30:53,520 --> 01:31:03,480 And then this code section, D106, there have to be two separate access roads for this. 1477 01:31:03,480 --> 01:31:12,880 And I guess the main point here is with regard to this letter here, the city said that this 1478 01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:19,280 letter does have the qualifications in there to allow them to apply these other standards 1479 01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:20,360 at a later date. 1480 01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:26,560 I don't read it there, but this board has the opportunity to impose conditions upon 1481 01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:27,560 this order. 1482 01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:28,560 Clarify it. 1483 01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:29,560 Make it clear. 1484 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:34,120 Make it undeniably clear that they have to do that. 1485 01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,880 They have to show that these standards are approved. 1486 01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:38,880 Yeah. 1487 01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:39,880 Mr. Drake. 1488 01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:40,880 Reversing. 1489 01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:41,880 Tell staff to do it. 1490 01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,000 In the interest of time, I believe you've answered the question. 1491 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:45,000 Yeah. 1492 01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:46,000 Thank you. 1493 01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,640 And perhaps my question about the ESA was directed to the gentleman who brought it up, 1494 01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:49,640 Mr. Gould. 1495 01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:50,640 Okay. 1496 01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:51,640 I'm sorry. 1497 01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:52,640 Your question? 1498 01:31:52,640 --> 01:32:00,120 Can you elaborate on the ESA, the condition that you described, it would have to meet? 1499 01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:01,120 Yeah. 1500 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:07,480 Based on what was put out for the first go-around with the SUP, this area used to be sort of 1501 01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:08,480 an ESA. 1502 01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:11,480 It was considered to be appropriate eventually. 1503 01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:15,120 It was not really an ESA yet. 1504 01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:18,160 When the Buckees thing came in, that brought the focus in. 1505 01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:21,120 The neighborhood that I live in to the south ate up a big piece of it. 1506 01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:27,440 But if you look, that Buckees ESA and this piece of property, the 7.6 acres, that's more 1507 01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:31,720 than the 10 acres for an ESA or for the Upland Habitat. 1508 01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,400 It doesn't have to be locked in by property lines. 1509 01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:35,400 That's clear. 1510 01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:36,400 It can go across. 1511 01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:39,640 It can be more than one piece of property to make this 10 acres. 1512 01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:45,520 So the 7.6 is not technically 10, but you add Buckees end in there and the retirement 1513 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:48,240 home piece of it, you got 10 acres. 1514 01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,280 It could be an ESA or an Upland Habitat. 1515 01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:57,360 It's just simply was never protected and it didn't get there, but it's one habitat. 1516 01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:01,200 And those animals, when you bulldoze that and run them into my neighborhood or across 1517 01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:06,720 35, there's nothing like that anywhere on that side of the freeway to get to South Lake. 1518 01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:10,160 That's a special piece of property. 1519 01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:11,160 That's all I really know. 1520 01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:12,160 Thank you. 1521 01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:13,160 I'm sorry. 1522 01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:18,720 So you've had an opportunity to speak unless if anyone has a question for Mr. Perry. 1523 01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:19,720 Yeah. 1524 01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,720 Was there a question down here? 1525 01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:23,720 Go ahead. 1526 01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:29,560 I did have a question and it's actually the letter that is currently on there and I don't 1527 01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:33,480 know who best to answer it and whether it's an appropriate question. 1528 01:33:33,480 --> 01:33:43,560 It's dated April 21st, 2022, second paragraph says a ZCP is valid for 24 months expiring 1529 01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:45,920 on April 21st, 2021. 1530 01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:48,680 Is that a typo? 1531 01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:51,680 That is a typo. 1532 01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:52,680 Okay. 1533 01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,000 Because it's two years from the date of the letter. 1534 01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:56,760 So that would be 2024. 1535 01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:57,760 Thank you. 1536 01:33:57,760 --> 01:33:59,040 That was all my question was. 1537 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:00,040 Thank you. 1538 01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:01,040 Another question. 1539 01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:02,040 Go ahead. 1540 01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:03,040 I do. 1541 01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:10,200 I do have a question for Mr. Perry, questions for Mr. Perry and hopefully they're pretty 1542 01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:11,200 simple. 1543 01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:15,000 I just, I'm trying to understand this as a citizen of Denton and so I'm wondering what 1544 01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:20,560 your understanding is as we've sat through listening to everyone's presentations. 1545 01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:27,260 So just a couple of hopefully quick response questions, but I was wondering if you, please 1546 01:34:27,260 --> 01:34:32,400 understand I do not mean to be condescending. 1547 01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:36,440 I don't, I don't think so. 1548 01:34:36,440 --> 01:34:40,080 I didn't get that from you. 1549 01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:45,400 But based on, so I understand one of the concerns was about having two point of entries, but 1550 01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:49,960 my understanding is that all of that will come before or come during the platting phase 1551 01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,740 that they'll have to demonstrate that they're able to get that. 1552 01:34:52,740 --> 01:34:56,800 So before they have a permit to build, there will be in fact two point of entry. 1553 01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,520 Do you agree with that? 1554 01:34:58,520 --> 01:34:59,520 Absolutely. 1555 01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:00,520 Okay. 1556 01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:03,000 So that's what I have been trying to say. 1557 01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:07,880 And all we've been doing here, I can make it very simple. 1558 01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:11,440 All that they've said, just put it in writing. 1559 01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:12,440 Okay. 1560 01:35:12,440 --> 01:35:16,400 So that's your, that's your issue is that it is not, you don't think that the developer 1561 01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,080 has received these conditions in writing? 1562 01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:24,480 No, I don't think the developer has got the conditions available to him yet. 1563 01:35:24,480 --> 01:35:30,440 I don't mind when he gets them, but what I'm saying is since the people all agree 1564 01:35:30,440 --> 01:35:39,920 is there anything wrong with putting a contention on this so that we all can be on the same 1565 01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:40,920 page? 1566 01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:47,640 I will sleep better at night if I know that the staff and the zoning commission and the 1567 01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:56,480 city council is willing to require it to be in writing instead of hearsay. 1568 01:35:56,480 --> 01:35:57,480 Okay. 1569 01:35:57,480 --> 01:36:02,000 So for the fire code, that has obviously been a huge issue based on my current understanding 1570 01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:08,240 after listening to everyone that the fire code standards, which are set by experts, 1571 01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:11,880 not me, that they will be met at the time of building. 1572 01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:12,880 Do you agree with that? 1573 01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:13,880 I agree with it. 1574 01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:14,880 Okay. 1575 01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:18,200 And then the last question is about tree preservation. 1576 01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:22,120 And according to everything I've heard tonight, when it's all said and done, there should 1577 01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:27,720 be some percentage of trees preserved or there are remedies to hold them accountable. 1578 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:28,720 If not, do you agree with that? 1579 01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:29,720 Yes, I do. 1580 01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:30,720 Okay. 1581 01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:31,720 So I think you and I have the same understanding. 1582 01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:33,480 I just wanted to be on the same page. 1583 01:36:33,480 --> 01:36:35,280 So thank you for answering those. 1584 01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:36,280 Thank you very much. 1585 01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:37,280 Yes, sir. 1586 01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,280 Are there any other questions? 1587 01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:41,280 Okay. 1588 01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:42,840 Yes, ma'am. 1589 01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:43,840 Yeah. 1590 01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:51,800 I just want to note that at the second meeting, our ability to ask questions will be curtailed. 1591 01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:55,920 So smoke 'em if you got 'em. 1592 01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:01,960 I just want to make sure that we've cleared the deck so that the answer is taken. 1593 01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:04,440 Well, in that case, can I ask a question of staff? 1594 01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:05,440 Yeah. 1595 01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:06,440 Yeah. 1596 01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:07,440 Please. 1597 01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:08,440 Okay. 1598 01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:09,440 Because what will happen in the second meeting is like, it's just us up here. 1599 01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:10,440 Deliberation. 1600 01:37:10,440 --> 01:37:11,440 Right. 1601 01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:12,440 So if you have questions, we have to ask them now. 1602 01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:13,440 Okay. 1603 01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:17,980 So again, based off of my conversation just now with Mr. Perry, we're on the same page 1604 01:37:17,980 --> 01:37:21,400 about we know that there are conditions that need to be met. 1605 01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:25,000 So now the question is, does the developer know that and do they know that in writing? 1606 01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:29,240 So I'm just curious about your process and are they provided with all of these things 1607 01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:30,240 in writing? 1608 01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:34,160 So in my opinion, yes, the developer is aware of the condition that has to be addressed 1609 01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:35,800 with respect to the access. 1610 01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:41,960 And the reason for that, and as noted in the staff analysis, is that on the plan, it acknowledges, 1611 01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:47,080 particularly as it relates to the emergency access, it says our 24-foot access easement 1612 01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:48,700 by separate instrument. 1613 01:37:48,700 --> 01:37:54,120 So that alone, the developer knows that they have to acquire that offsite legal right, 1614 01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:58,080 as Ms. Degren had spoken to previously, has to be satisfied. 1615 01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:00,360 So in my opinion, yes, they are fully aware of that. 1616 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:01,360 Okay. 1617 01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:02,360 Go ahead. 1618 01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:03,360 Another question. 1619 01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:04,360 I have a question. 1620 01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:09,880 Because this is, although an undeclared ESA, nonetheless quite an active habitat still 1621 01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:14,920 even after Buckies was built, what are the plans to deal with that because these creatures 1622 01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:18,680 will be in the neighborhood yards? 1623 01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:23,360 So the subject property, as explained in the staff analysis, and the exhibit provided, 1624 01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:31,280 was removed from the, I'm drawing a blank, was removed as an ESA, and no longer designated 1625 01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,840 as an upland habitat because it did not meet minimum acreage requirements and with respect 1626 01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:37,080 to the trees being located there. 1627 01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:43,540 So anything that is remaining with any of the trees on the property is purely speculation 1628 01:38:43,540 --> 01:38:52,240 as to what the habitats or what the, I'm trying to find the word, the animals, birds, bees, 1629 01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:55,760 whatever may reside within those, and I can't be able to address that. 1630 01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:00,800 So what I do know is that the plan, as it's submitted, does comply with our requirements 1631 01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:07,320 as provided for in our ESA regulations and our tree preservation with respect to the 1632 01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:09,560 roadway connection of Nugget Way. 1633 01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,240 If that ever occurs over that riparian buffer, then they would have to submit the alteasa 1634 01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:17,720 plan at that point in time they're requesting to be able to extend the pavement. 1635 01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:22,960 So the, but as it relates to the subject property, it complies with our current requirements 1636 01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:23,960 on the ordinance. 1637 01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:30,200 So I can't speculate as to what nature will do within the remaining trees. 1638 01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:35,280 It's a difficult situation because as it was only very recently, it did comply with the 1639 01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:44,760 size and there are, Engage Denton is receiving concerns regularly already about coyotes appearing 1640 01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:48,800 where they would not have eight years ago. 1641 01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:53,340 So although this remaining piece of property isn't 10 acres, it was part of something that 1642 01:39:53,340 --> 01:39:59,720 was more than 10 acres and was, I gather, if that's correct, what we just heard on the 1643 01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:06,600 way towards being declared as an ESA when it was scooped up by the Buckeyes project. 1644 01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:12,440 So there's a bit of history there that can't be addressed necessarily, but nonetheless 1645 01:40:12,440 --> 01:40:17,720 will become something that the city will have to deal with and I was wondering, more than 1646 01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:27,840 one person asked about what exactly is going to be the plan for the neighborhood around. 1647 01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:34,520 Is that, I'm not sure that's relevant to this particular case though, Jennifer, I hear you. 1648 01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:39,800 My heart's right there with you, but that's talking about the plan for an environmentally 1649 01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:46,960 sensitive area that's outside of this particular property is not something that we are able 1650 01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:48,240 to discuss this evening. 1651 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:49,240 I see. 1652 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:50,240 Yeah. 1653 01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:54,280 And the only thing I would offer is that the exhibit that is included in the staff analysis 1654 01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:59,300 helps explain the history or the exhibit combined with the text helps explain the history associated 1655 01:40:59,300 --> 01:41:00,520 with the area. 1656 01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,880 As a result of the Southridge development, I believe it was in also the Oak Ridge Oak 1657 01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:10,040 Village development that occurred that started the whittling away, the whittling away if 1658 01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:15,920 you will, at the ESA, but it was also determined that ESA was also incorrectly identified and 1659 01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:21,440 so our official map has those ESA areas designated as removed, including for the subject property, 1660 01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:23,080 not meeting the minimum acreage requirement. 1661 01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:24,080 Thank you. 1662 01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:25,080 I hope we understood that. 1663 01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,760 I do have one last question, which is I wanted to make sure that... 1664 01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:29,760 Sorry. 1665 01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:30,760 Hold on. 1666 01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:33,320 Jennifer, you turned your mic off. 1667 01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:35,360 Just lean real it. 1668 01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:36,360 Thank you very much. 1669 01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:41,520 I wanted to make sure everyone in the ZBA panel understands how the tree mitigation process 1670 01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:42,520 actually works. 1671 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:50,040 For example, if 75 old growth trees are removed, what is planted in its place? 1672 01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:53,680 Is it more of those or is it baby plants or whatever? 1673 01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:58,920 As addressed in the staff analysis, the DDC speaks to how trees can be mitigated. 1674 01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:03,480 Again, they're required to mitigate 30% of the heritage quality trees. 1675 01:42:03,480 --> 01:42:05,920 They're allowed to drop that down to 20%. 1676 01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:10,360 There's a higher mitigation ratio that is provided for the delta of the reduction and 1677 01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:14,200 addresses how that can be accomplished. 1678 01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:21,120 State law specifies that when it comes to mitigation, mitigation can occur in two forms. 1679 01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,360 We have to offer both, which our code does. 1680 01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:26,540 One is with the replacement of planting of trees. 1681 01:42:26,540 --> 01:42:29,640 The other is payment in lieu of. 1682 01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:33,160 The state law does not prescribe the type of trees that have to be utilized. 1683 01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:35,920 We have to provide that option for replanting. 1684 01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:42,160 With the plan that was included within the packet, the plan complies with our tree mitigation 1685 01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:47,280 requirements to allow for the tree preservation to be reduced to 20%, or in this case, I believe 1686 01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:51,240 it was 21.6% is what they had on their plan. 1687 01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:53,640 Thank you. 1688 01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:54,640 Yes. 1689 01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:55,640 Another question. 1690 01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:56,640 Sorry. 1691 01:42:56,640 --> 01:43:00,080 That's a question for staff, and I'm just kind of repeating to make sure I understand. 1692 01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:01,080 So sorry. 1693 01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:04,520 You're definitely repeating your answer here, but just kind of in reference to the fire 1694 01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:11,040 entrances and the fire lanes and the fire access roads, the current plan exceeds the 1695 01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:17,160 code as required in the sense that there are two entries, could be three at a later date, 1696 01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:22,080 and that we have three sides with 24 foot fire lanes, whereas the code was 20 at the 1697 01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:28,560 time, and one side with 26 foot, which is two code. 1698 01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:33,840 In the respect to this plan, if something, I know that the appellant is very interested 1699 01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:40,280 in conditions, they have to meet the requirements of their plan, not the code. 1700 01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:44,000 So if anything changes in the future, the plan is not going to be approved. 1701 01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:47,280 They're going to meet their plan, not the requirements, the number of requirements in 1702 01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:48,280 the fire code. 1703 01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:49,280 Correct. 1704 01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:51,000 They have to meet the requirements of their plan. 1705 01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:54,080 What I would offer is that if they're not able to satisfy the requirements of their 1706 01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:58,760 plan, then they would be submitting a new zoning compliance plan to the city for review, 1707 01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:02,760 and that plan would be reviewed in accordance with the requirements that are in effect at 1708 01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:03,760 that time. 1709 01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:04,760 Okay. 1710 01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:05,760 Thank you. 1711 01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:06,760 Thank you. 1712 01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:15,120 I'm going to give you all one more minute to think, if you have any other burning questions. 1713 01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:17,240 We're good. 1714 01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:18,240 Okay. 1715 01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:22,080 All right, it's 7.19. 1716 01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:26,080 I'm going to close this first meeting. 1717 01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:32,960 I would like to take maybe a 15-minute sandwich break, because it'll help me think better. 1718 01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:38,480 So let's come back at 7.35, and I want to be mindful of everyone's time, because we've 1719 01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:40,760 got staff with families that I want to make sure they can get home to. 1720 01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:43,480 So be in your seat at 7.35 for the next meeting. 1721 01:44:43,480 --> 01:44:44,480 Yeah? 1722 01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:45,480 Cool. 1723 01:44:45,480 --> 01:44:46,480 Thanks. 1724 01:44:46,480 --> 01:44:51,400 And Chair, if I may, I encourage the board to remember the Open Meeting Act and not discuss 1725 01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,600 any business while we're on break.