>> Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton's planning and zoning commission
meeting for Wednesday, June 22, 2022.
This is our work session and with a quorum present, I will call us to order at 5.01 p.m.
Let the record show that Commissioner Smith and Commissioner Anderson are not currently
in our work session.
Work session report is our first item on the agenda and it's a receiver report.
The discussion gives staff direction regarding vision zero.
Hi, Preetam, how are you?
>> Good.
Can you hear me?
Good afternoon.
Preetam Deshbhuk, transportation planning and I am -- give me a quick second.
Hopefully have it up here.
And I'll be presenting and giving you an update about vision zero.
What's happening with vision zero?
Where are we?
We started this conversation a while ago late last year and get right to it.
Before I jump to vision zero, just want to give a little bit of background of what we're
doing.
We're not just waiting and building a plan or working on a vision zero plan, but there
are quite a few things that we're working towards safety within the city and part of
that as I've listed here is the citywide speed study is currently underway.
We're collecting information, collecting data along arterials, collectors, a lot of streets
within the city.
So that study will inform us of what speeds we can set on some of these roadways, how
we can make them safer, if there's any speed reduction or any other things that can be
done and will be as part of that citywide speed study.
The second important thing that we're doing is we're actually going out and requesting
funding.
We've been requesting funding from the state, from TechStat for the last three years.
Every year there is a new round of funding that goes out and it's under the highway safety
improvement program and we've requested funding.
We've received funding for two rounds, the third round still pending.
We haven't heard back, but within those two rounds there are several intersections that
we're updating as far as safety is concerned.
We're putting in new equipment, we're adding in turning signals, improving lane configuration,
so on and so forth.
So that's part of that highway safety improvement program.
So we're requesting and getting external funding.
The third thing we're doing is coordination.
As you know, people, if signals are not coordinated, you get on a larger corridor like University
Drive and so on and so forth.
You're stuck at two signal, third signal, people start getting frustrated and anxious.
So one of the things we're doing is making it much more smoother so that their experience
is not that frustrating and that really helps with driver behavior, helps with the frustration.
So that's another thing as far as safety is concerned, last but not least, we're trying
to improve the environment or the infrastructure that's being built and the fastest and easiest
way for us to do that is any new development that goes in uses our transportation criteria
manuals.
All our manuals are our standard details.
We update them annually, and based on new safety goals, I'll talk about those in a bit,
we are updating our manual and making sure that we add some of the safety elements that
are required within the city.
So when a new development goes in, they are implementing some of that.
So this is the background stuff we're working on.
And then let's jump into exactly what we've done about Vision Zero.
So the first thing, earlier this year in March, the council adopted the mobility plan.
And as you can see on the right side, the first goal, this was one of the many goals
that we have within the mobility plan, but council realized and recognized that safety
is really important.
So they actually pulled this particular goal to number one, and we made some modifications
to the language.
But we understand that safety is first, and as you can see, our first goal says, develop
and implement a Vision Zero plan.
So yes, we've adopted these goals, and we're going to start working towards implementing
some of these goals and objectives and strategies pretty shortly.
What we're doing next is we're taking a phased approach, and I'll explain why we're going
with a phased approach in a couple slides, but we're taking a phased approach to implementing
Vision Zero.
The first step is doing a Vision Zero assessment, that's phase one.
And then phase two is actually developing a Vision Zero plan.
And then third will be implementation and monitoring, which is an ongoing process that
will continue happening.
So as far as the phases are concerned, we're already in phase one.
We have started the assessment piece for Vision Zero, and we've initiated, we've engaged a
consulting firm, and we have also engaged stakeholders.
We've created a stakeholder group.
We have a large stakeholder group, about 30-plus members, and we also hosted a webinar recently,
this was back in May, and provided information about Vision Zero.
Now we're actually going through the second step, which is collecting survey information.
We're surveying all our stakeholders, getting feedback from them.
And I'll get into the details of what exactly steps we're doing in the assessment a little
bit later, but we already completed that work.
So what is Vision Zero?
I want to take a step back and have you understand.
So it was an idea that started back in 1997 in Sweden, and slowly and steadily it has
caught along.
A lot of the countries, as well as many cities in the U.S., have started adopting that idea.
The basic concept is from an ethical standpoint, there shouldn't be any, we shouldn't allow
any fatalities or long-term injuries within our traffic system, or due to a traffic accident.
So that's the main concept.
Now how do we get to that, how do we start implementing?
So if you look at this upper corner, you can see that traditionally the approach had been,
hey, the debts are inevitable.
When you're having traffic accidents, they're inevitable.
We have to change that thinking.
We have to change that perception.
We have to say debts are preventable, and there are various ways of getting there.
Originally it was all the transportation infrastructure designed for a perfect human behavior.
There was no leeway for, hey, humans are going to make mistakes, so we are going to integrate
that into our infrastructure, into our designing, even into our summer for vehicles.
So smart vehicles and learning vehicles, all these concepts are getting slowly involved.
And then so on and so forth.
We're trying to modify our traditional approach to a Vision Zero approach.
And there are several layers.
So how do we get there?
Because it's a interdisciplinary, multilevel approach to road safety, when I say multilevel,
you start from the driver behavior.
There's changes to driver behavior that are required.
You move on to roadways or the physical infrastructure that's out there, change the design for that.
You get into policies and law and all of those things.
We have to change those in order for that to be more effective.
And then, of course, I talked about vehicle improvements and performance improvements
within vehicles.
And last but not least, once an accident happens or an incident happens, how do we manage that?
How do we have emergency vehicles at site a little bit quicker?
What do we do when we get there?
How do we save lives quickly?
So it's a multilayer approach.
It's not just, oh, we have to fix it.
We have to design a roadway a certain way.
And that's going to help us achieve a Vision Zero.
No, it's a multilevel, multifaceted approach.
So now we're talking about Vision Zero assessment.
Why did we go through an assessment phase and not directly jump into Vision Zero plan?
What we've noticed, there's a lot of cities throughout U.S. have adopted Vision Zero.
They have plans and they have adopted ordinances.
But what we're noticing is that the data, the number of fatalities, the number of accidents
that are happening is not moving in the right direction.
It is, in fact, increasing.
In the last couple of years, some of the fatality numbers have increased for some of these jurisdictions
that have already approved Vision Zero plans.
So what's going wrong?
So we want to step back a little bit and assess that.
We want to say that there is something business as usual is not working.
We can't just walk in and say, hey, here's our plan and this is what we're doing.
We have to understand what's not working.
And that's why we took a step back.
We had to rethink our approach.
What we're doing in assessment is finding out what our strengths and weaknesses are.
And then we attack that.
And on the weakness side, we improve that and make it a part of our Vision Zero plan.
So that's why we're doing this assessment.
And here's what's all included in the assessment.
As I mentioned, there are several stakeholders, both internal.
We have multiple departments participating, as well as external.
There are several external stakeholders, like the two universities that we have, like county,
talking about medical city hospitals and Texas Presbyterian.
So we have staff from all these different stakeholders that are within Denton and are
really important, as I mentioned in the several layers, for this whole system to work, for
Vision Zero to work.
We are collaborating with them.
And what we're going to do is we're going to understand how does the city currently,
the way it's functioning, align with those Vision Zero parameters, the core elements.
We are going to assess our strengths, as well as weaknesses, and help build on weaknesses.
And then we are going to see what challenges are preventing us.
So all of these are really important to get started.
And once we have all that information, that would be a good starting point for developing
our plan.
So what's in the plan itself?
The Vision Zero is an action plan, which is centered around the core elements.
If you focus on these three top core elements, it's primarily looking at leadership and commitment.
What is the leadership and how is the leadership, how are they leading, what kind of engagement
they have, and what kind of commitment they have towards Vision Zero.
Then safe roads and speed, this is your infrastructure design.
Are you doing context-sensitive design?
Are you sizing your roads, appropriate speeds for your roads, and so on and so forth?
And then the final one, which is really important, is a data-driven approach.
So you have to track the data, you have to be transparent, and then you have to hold
it accountable.
So if you don't look at the changes you're implementing as part of the Vision Zero plan,
track it, map it, and then see if they're really effective or working, then you don't
know if this thing or the plan is really working.
So once you have a plan you're going to implement and then redo and reimplement and keep on
monitoring all the changes that you're doing.
So this is actually the Vision Zero plan, a quick example of how it would look like.
There are a couple of examples here.
To the left is the Houston plan, and to the right is the plan from Berkeley.
And what we're going to do is look at all these plans and see which fit really well,
what elements fit well for Denton.
If you see on the left side you have the actual goal, which is what the goal is walking, biking.
You see the lead department that's authorized, and then you have the supporting departments
that will be involved.
In this plan, one of the things that is missing is actually prioritization and timing.
So in the Berkeley plan we actually have not only have the departments, but we have a prioritization
within the action elements, and then a timeline which is associated.
So we have a whole gamut, a lot of cities have adopted this, so it would be really helpful
once we jump into this phase of developing a plan to pull from some of the examples that
we already have.
And then last but not least, next steps, just to give you a quick idea of what the schedule
will look like.
The assessment phase for Vision Zero will be completed fall of this year, October, November
timeframe.
Once that is completed, we'll move on to the next step, which is Vision Zero plan.
We anticipate about 12 months of getting a consultant on board and going through the
steps of actually defining and benchmarking the core elements.
And then once that plan is developed, then the last phase starts, which is the implementation
and monitoring of that particular plan.
And this is an ongoing process, that's why it doesn't have any timeline.
All of this depends on getting the budget approved for the Vision Zero plan through
the next budget cycle, starting in October this year.
And then one last thing, we had this presentation presented to council as well to just give
them an idea and update of Vision Zero.
And that concludes my presentation.
Any questions?
>> Commissioner McDade?
>> Thank you.
I have a two part question.
On the first one, when it comes to the speech study, on a scale of the one to five, how
reliable are those?
And then I'll go into the next question, which is why I don't think they're very reliable.
So they are reliable, the reason I say that.
It depends on the equipment that's being used.
So let me explain what the speech study does.
Speech study actually only collects currently, the first step is collecting data.
So a driver is driving on a roadway, many cars go on the roadway itself.
What it's doing is out of the 100 cars that pass that particular point, how many are going
what speed?
That's what is logged.
That's what will define, okay, on this segment of the roadway, majority of the people driving
throughout the day are 30 miles an hour or 35 miles an hour.
So that's what is being done as part of the speech study.
And the equipment they use is they actually have tubes that have air pressure that keep
on counting changing on the air pressure once a car passes it.
So they're taped a distance apart, a fixed distance, and that defines the speed while
they're crossing those and the timing that it hits.
So yes, it's fairly reliable equipment, been in the use for a while.
>> Okay.
And I guess part two is not a question, it's just a statement because in Southeast Denton,
we ask for speech studies.
One particular street is Morris Street.
So the first time the city did a speech study coming off of Woodrow going west on Mars,
they actually put the speech study 30 feet from the turn off of Woodrow.
Nobody's going to get up to speed at that much time.
They came two weeks ago, right up the street on Mars at a three-way stop in Mars and Newton,
they put it 30 feet behind the stop sign.
So every time we ask for something, they just come and throw it in the neighborhood, I don't
know whether it's to appease the neighbors, the neighborhood, or just to say that they
did it.
But we ask them, you're putting it in the wrong spot.
And every time they come down, I mean, we're talking 30 feet from a three-way stop, nobody's
going to get up to 30 to 35 miles an hour.
But that's where they put them in the one spot where they know it's not going to show
that nobody's even going 30 miles an hour.
We have asked, we're not going to beg, we're just going to ask.
But every time we ask, they go and they put it in the worst spot possible.
And then we get a report saying, we don't see any issues with that, with speeding in
this neighborhood.
So how can that be corrected?
We would love the traffic to come down to the neighborhood and let us tell you where
to put it instead of you telling us where you're going to put it, because we know where
you're going to put it.
So we would love to have an interaction with the city to let us know this is the issue
we're having and we would love for you to just put them where we see the biggest problem,
because we're there 24/7.
Thank you.
OK.
So let's ask this question.
Where typically are these put?
I mean, is that a normal thing?
Mid-block.
Just mid-block.
They have to be-- there are several things that they look at, no obstructions, no parking,
fees, all of that.
But they have to be mid-block.
They cannot be that close to intersections, typically.
Yeah.
OK.
Yes.
With this assessment, is this being conducted by a third party, or is the city doing it?
Or is it a collab?
It's a collaboration.
The data is being collected by a third party.
OK.
Understood.
Any other questions?
Commissioner Perutt.
Thank you, Chair.
Fingerprint.
I don't know.
It's hotter outside.
So my fingers are sweaty.
I don't know.
A couple of follow-ups on Commissioner's data point.
And then I had some other-- a different line.
When we're doing the speed studies, do we have-- like, how accurate are the records
of the specific location where the speed study was operated at?
Are they just a segment name, or do we have, like, a GIS location?
We have a location map.
OK.
Nathan did sit down and actually point it on the map.
OK.
So they should be available.
That's good.
I think, you know, if there's any questions that come up once we start seeing the data,
that can be glanced at just to make sure there's not an issue.
And then secondly on that question, in a typical speed study where, for instance, you're looking
for the 85th percentile speed, is it correct that that 85th percentile speed is supposed
to be measuring only vehicles that are in the free flow of traffic and not those that
are potentially slowed down because there's excess traffic on the road?
If you're talking about congested roadways and speed in congested roadways, yes, it's
the comfortable speed.
So if the roadways typically are congested during peak hours, then that, yes, we are
focused more on the free flow speed where there is no congestion or backup or any other
obstructions that impede traffic free flow.
OK.
So with that data, is the typical process to sort of filter it and say, oh, well, we
measured, you know, 10 speeds within, I don't know what the time frame would be, one minute,
and therefore there were X number of cars for this number of lanes that constitutes
congestion, so we'll throw away those values, or is it more of like, well, we think this
roadway is usually congested at this time, so we'll take out the values that we measured
during that hour?
Typically what we do is look at the volumes, and volume, we compare that to the capacity
of the lane, and based on that, we'll define if, during any peak hour, if we're hitting
that mark, but that assessment will happen internally, we're not going to.
Sure.
The congestion is just happening right now, so we're just collecting the data.
We've not done any assessment yet.
OK.
No, that's fine.
I just, I guess anecdotally, I'll, I see, you know, because of platooning and other things,
there's often groups of cars where one car may be going slower than all the cars would
go that are behind it.
Just something to keep in mind.
OK.
But the, you mentioned it was kind of a multinational approach that had started quite some time ago,
but then you showed two examples, I think it was, now I'm going to not remember.
Houston.
It was Houston.
OK.
Houston and Berkeley.
Are we also going to take a look at some international examples?
The reason I ask is that since those may have started earlier, they may not have been affected
in the results of them as much by the COVID travel pattern changes and that sort of thing?
I mean, we can ask our consultant.
Primarily we're going to start with some of the local, some of the U.S. cities, but as
we get more and more enhanced, meaning as we start seeing some of the changes influence
and then actual fatalities going down, then we'll start implementing some of the other,
because some of the European nations are fairly far along.
I mean, they have taken out lanes, they've taken out vehicle travel within a certain
area, they've implemented transit systems, so they're far more advanced and they're at
the stage that we're not, so we have to take steps.
Yeah, completely understand that the implementations may look different, because the state of things
is at a different point.
Completely different, so our implementation plan right now is going to be consistent with
most of the cities in the U.S., but as we go further, move along, then our plan continues
to change and we'll have a similar, but yeah, we can take a look at what they have.
And then lastly, I think in general, the public excitement over this is kind of like, we want
something yesterday, and I understand that that's hard to do when you're doing a very
thorough approach.
I guess my question is, is it, is one of the reasons why it benefits us to do a more complete
data collection and be thorough thing before we really get the plan out, say a year and
a half from now, just that we have so many text dot roadways and other jurisdictions
to work with within the city, and that gives us a better position to implement the things
that we come up with?
Partially, that's a partial answer.
Yes, we have a lot of stakeholders involved, but in the same vein, what we're currently
doing, as I mentioned in the background, is we are fixing, I did have a heat map for accident
locations.
The majority of the accident locations are along text dot facilities.
So what we're doing with the Highway Safety Improvement Program is we're targeting specifically
all of those intersections that are an issue and making sure that we fix those so that
moving forward, we don't have other accidents that happen at that location.
So yes, we're systematically addressing some of the deficiencies.
We just haven't named it a Vision Zero plan, but that could be one of the first things
that we show up in the Vision Zero implementation plan, is fix all these intersections that
are along text dot, and we are already starting to do that.
Sure, and I think we have had a program in the past that was like the small transportation
projects or something that has done some of that before.
I guess I'll say, as part of the component of developing that plan with the consultant
next year, I noticed that there would be an opportunity for trying to get some public
engagement and commitment with that.
I might offer that even though we won't have completely finished the planning and finished
the data collection for knowing exactly what metrics we want to track yet, I wonder if
setting up some pilot projects in places where we don't have to agree with text dot and that
sort of thing just to give the public an example physically of, hey, these are the types of
things we're thinking of including, here's why, what do you think of it, in order to
test some of those things out and be ahead of the ball a little bit.
I don't know if that is feasible, but getting people something physical in the city instead
of a page in a report is sometimes more effective.
That's a good idea, but I think if you look at the layers that are in there, physical
aspect is really like one piece to like seven other pieces.
So driver behavior, maybe reaching out, maybe education of the drivers, education of people
all, that's one piece, policy is another piece, law enforcement, enforcing is another piece.
So yeah, I think at the end of the day it comes together, but if you don't have anything
physical, people don't actually see anything, and I agree, but that's a good point, we'll
look into the pilot program.
Really looking forward to it.
Thank you.
Any other questions?
No.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Thank you for this, great overview, look forward to as we progress in it.
We're excited too.
Appreciate it.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Okay, moving along in our agenda, citizen comments on consent agenda items is our next
item, and I don't believe I have anyone here to speak, so we will move on to our next agenda
item, which is clarification on tonight's agenda, starting with our minutes for June
8th.
Any questions, comments, revisions needed?
Okay, how about consent agenda items?
There's, I believe, got two items on the consent agenda.
Commissioner McDade?
I just have a question for Julie.
Okay.
At the, I'm looking at the Lang Sycamore, at the last meeting, I asked you if you had
any idea what they were planning to build, and I guess you didn't have an answer, so
have you done, have they?
It's multifamily.
I mean, we're talking duplexes, the reason I'm asking is this, it's going to be, that
this touches home, because depending on how they build, this is looking into my backyard
down, so now I'm having the Lillian Miller effect that, so I was, we were just curious
on what duplexes, fourplexes, or three or four story apartments, that's all I was trying
to find out.
Sure.
It is multifamily, so that traditional kind of garden style multifamily on this property,
they are proposing three story buildings, that southern property line, show right there,
they are proposing that most of the buildings are going to be toward the north of the, of
the property.
Is that Sycamore?
I'm sorry.
No, that's okay.
Closer to Sycamore, there is parking along the southern edge, and they, they are required
to put in a buffer.
I will be happy to provide you with a site plan if you'd like, so we can talk to them.
Yeah, yeah, because I'm, I'm actually on, on the prairie, on the prairie end.
Oh, you're, okay, so you're on the south side of it, yes sir.
So there is, they are proposing parking along this southern edge, along with the, the required
buffer, and then they are also proposing open space here, I believe a dog park in this area
right here.
Okay.
All righty, thank you.
You bet.
Commissioner Pruitt.
Thank you.
Just again on this one, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
So on the north side of the Platte, there's a pedestrian access evenment that's eight
feet wide, and it's normally a collector roadway, I think, so it would normally have that eight
foot wide sidewalk.
So is that sort of the, the plan to be able to have that connectivity on the south side
of this road, even though the, the north properties don't, have not yielded that right of way
because they haven't redeveloped since that requirement, and that became a collector,
is that correct?
That is correct.
So yes, they'll have to, they'll have to construct that sidewalk along that southern
property.
Okay.
On the south side of the road, yes sir.
Okay.
Thank you.
You bet.
Anything else on consent?
Okay.
Thanks Julie.
Appreciate it.
That'll move us into our items for individual consideration.
Are there any questions on 4A?
Anybody need to see that on the screen in work session?
Nope.
Actually, who is doing that?
Is it Mia?
Is she here?
You're doing it?
Give us an overview.
This is a very unique one.
That's why I would like a little overview.
Let me pull up the presentation.
Thanks.
I'm not going to go through every detail.
Just explain.
Yeah, we can see the whole presentation and yeah, but just kind of, yeah, the high, high
level would be great.
So the request here is for a variance for driveway spacing, and I'm going to directly
jump into the driveway spacing.
So as you can see, this is along Sandbass, let me go back a little bit.
So this is Sandbass Boulevard.
That's Londonderry, Teasley and I-35 interchange is somewhere up here.
And that's the corner we're looking at along Sandbass.
And if you get there, there are apartments on the west side.
They currently have a driveway here.
And then there are apartment entrance and a driveway on the south side here.
So what we're requesting is a variance of driveway spacing.
Typically, when we have driveways across, we want them to line up or be 75 feet away
from each other.
And then typically when we have driveways on the same side of the street, we require
them to be at least 100 feet apart.
So this site has, as you can see, a lot of trees here as part of their tree preservation
plan.
They had to preserve tree on this north side.
The building, the way it's laid out as a result, had to be pushed further south.
And that's why this driveway is slightly not aligned with the driveway opposite to it or
even not 100 feet.
So that's why we're requesting a variance.
We've looked at traffic analysis, we've looked at the peak volume and numbers.
Typically, the concern is drivers going across the road and not being able to make that direct
connection.
But since both of them are apartments, very unlikely that anyone will cross apartments
and go across.
And then the turning volume is also low during peak hours, so there's very little conflict
here from the safety standpoint.
So those are the two things that we're looking at.
Given all the volumes, numbers, and this roadway, we recommend approval for this slight variance.
One of my concerns on this road is there's so much parking on the road and there are
times that, I mean, you can't get two cars passing each other when cars are home at these
apartment complexes.
So then we're going to add another one.
Is that taken into consideration as you looked at this, especially with what vision is going
to be, especially with what we just talked about?
Also, obviously, San Bas isn't going to be looked at like the next of never, probably,
but what is the future plan for that?
So I'm glad you asked, because as part of this plan, we've asked them to create an indented
parking area.
So all on-street parking north along the fringe of this property will be tucked inside and
then the curves are pulled outside so that we have enough space.
So we ask them to measure, we provide enough adequate space for on-street parking on the
opposite side.
There's adequate space on-street parking on this side, and there is a 20-foot open area
that cars can drive in either direction comfortably.
And that's what we've done as part of this design, is ask them to provide indented parking
and shift the curve.
So they're actually physically shifting the curve that currently exists on their frontage
closer to their building and then creating extra space for the parking to address the
same concerns that you just pointed out.
And are they going to have on-street parking as well?
They're not required, but typically, when you have apartments, you end up using the
on-street parking spaces anyways.
So that's why we made sure that the safety factor was addressed in this area.
Yeah, that is excellent to know, because it's tough right now.
I totally understand.
Questions for Pete, I'm on this.
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll see you in the meeting.
Okay.
Next one is for B, FP220018, that I believe has an extension request on it.
Yeah, please, thanks.
Mainly just so we have dates.
I know there's an extension request on it.
So, yeah.
Yes.
Good evening, everyone.
Angie Mangler, Senior Planner.
This is FP220018.
I think I may have pulled up the wrong presentation.
Here it is.
It is a requested final plot for one lot, approximately 22 acres.
At this moment, staff is recommending denial, as it does not meet all of our approval criteria.
However, they did submit an extension request, and we have no exception to granting that
until July 13th.
Okay.
Excellent.
That's what I wanted to know.
Okay.
Any questions for Angie?
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
Next will be 4C, PP220003.
This came in email very late and has changed to approval.
I don't know if everyone has had a chance to view that, but we probably will, possibly
right now.
Hi.
Good evening.
Ashley Hickok, Assistant Planner.
This is PP220003B, and this is a preliminary plot for Cyrene at Hickory, and it's 51 residential
lots at 2499 and Hickory Creek Road.
They were able to work through all of their outstanding comments today, so staff is currently
recommending approval.
Excellent.
Any questions?
I know you worked hard on this one to get all those cleared, so thank you very much.
That's good for the applicant.
Commissioner Perrett.
Thank you.
So you have the overview map there on the left.
Just north of this property is the couple of subdivisions kind of between Hickory Creek
and Ryan Road, and there's an existing trail that runs through that 100-year floodplain
area that you kind of see snaking north and then northwest and then north again, almost
all the way up to Ryan Road.
So I guess my question is, and I was looking up for the chapter and verse and couldn't
find it, so you'll have to forgive me, but we do have a requirement for connecting to
existing trails that are near the border of a subject property.
And so my question is, is that already planned in this plat, and there's nothing necessary
to show within this floodplain, or is that something that would have to be shown in the
plat to do, and if so, why are we not requiring it?
The applicant actually has a meeting with Parks tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock to go
over the details of the trail dedication throughout the ESD.
Okay.
So that's in work, even though we don't see it on this plat.
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you.
Anybody else?
Thank you very much.
Okay.
That will take us to 4DPP220011 by Julie.
Good evening.
Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner.
So before we talk about these plots, I just want to take one moment because since we've
had the shot clock legislation within the state of Texas, we don't often see preliminary
and final plots on the same agenda.
It was something that happened from time to time prior to the shot clock legislation,
but it's not something we typically see.
But we do have a preliminary and final plot for the same project on your agenda tonight.
So I just wanted to talk about that also, let you know that it is permitted in the Denton
Development Code.
It's just not something we often see.
That said, this one is the preliminary plat, PP220011A.
You might remember this from a previous meeting.
They did receive an extension.
They have addressed all comments, and staff is recommending approval, except we are recommending
approval with conditions tonight because there are still some outstanding issues.
One in particular, the specific use permit.
So there is a specific use permit required for a multifamily use on this property.
It is going to go before you tonight during the public hearing, and then it will go before
city council if it has a recommendation tonight, if it moves forward tonight, it will go to
city council next Tuesday.
So staff is recommending a condition that approval is conditioned upon that approval
of that SUP, and that if that SUP is not approved, then the preliminary plat would expire immediately.
I'll be happy to answer any questions.
And I think, do you want to just piggyback E on this because it's effectively the same?
>> Sure.
Absolutely.
>> And then we'll get to questions.
>> Sure.
This is the final plat.
So the preliminary plat is on the agenda prior to the final plat, but this one is also they
have addressed all comments, and staff is recommending approval with conditions, one,
that the civil engineering plans have to be approved without condition, and any changes
to that final plat, it would have to be reflected on that final plat based upon that approval
of the civil engineering plans.
That multifamily use would have to be approved through the specific use permit.
And then once again, if that SUP is not approved by council, then that plat would expire.
And I'll be happy to answer any questions.
>> Thanks, Julie.
Commissioner McDade.
>> Yeah, I just have a question.
I've heard the phrase shot clock, but I don't exactly know what it is.
I wanted you to kind of amplify on exactly what that means.
>> Okay.
Well, I'm going to do my best.
If I leave anything out, Tina or Hillary will jump in.
>> All right, thank you.
>> So a couple of years ago, the state legislature passed a bill where plat, an action needed
to be, let me rephrase, the plat needed to be acted upon within 30 days of submittal.
So an applicant submits that plat, the P&Z either has to approve it or deny it within
30 days.
Now, they do have the option, applicants have the option to request a one-time 30-day extension
that would give them another 30 days.
But at the end of that 30 days, the Planning and Zoning Commission has to either approve
or deny or approve with conditions that plat.
There's no extending it beyond that 60 days.
So does that answer your question or, okay, how did I do?
Commissioner Villarreal.
>> Quick question, is there a reason why we're removing the date with conditions instead
of having to do with the plat application?
>> That is a great question.
The applicant is here, will be here tonight to talk, especially regarding the specific
use permit.
They do have, this is an affordable project.
So they have prescribed deadlines that they have to meet in order to meet the deadlines
for that affordable project.
And so they're running up against some deadlines.
And so staff talked with them and we worked through what we could approve or we could
recommend that approval with the conditions.
>> Thank you.
>> Sure.
>> Commissioner Pruitt.
>> Thank you, Chair.
So completely understand it's the way we have to do things.
But just out of curiosity, because we don't often see this type of situation, would the
development code give us grounds for denying for this type of a situation and we've found
a way to allow the project to move forward contingent on that, right?
Or is the judgment by staff or the recommendation by staff that denying it for the reason that
there was not an SUP granted yet is not allowed under the shot clock legislation?
>> I'm going to let Tina jump in on that one if you don't mind.
>> So all great questions.
So prior to the shot clock legislation, as Julie pointed out, it was not uncommon to
have development applications being considered simultaneously.
Keep in mind the 30-day rule applied prior to 2019, but cities took a broader interpretation
as to when did the clock start, right?
So the state legislature tried to rein us all in.
Not saying that we were offenders in Denton by any means, but that's -- I mean, the primary
impetus behind it is how to be able to help facilitate the development project faster.
Preliminary plats are typically very preliminary in nature, and they are the initial layout
illustrating how the applicant is anticipating the easements to encumber the property.
And it's basically communicating to us, here's how we anticipate this all laying out.
And we do our best at that review simultaneously with following a zoning compliance plan review
if that's come into play, look to see if these easements also correspond with that.
It also works in tandem with the civil engineering plans, right?
But we anticipate that there will probably be changes to the preliminary plat, especially
when it comes to final plat.
The final plat usually occurs later in our development review cycle.
Depending upon the municipality and how the review processes are set up, you might see
the final plat before construction, or you might see the final plat near the tail end
of construction.
But the final plat then is laying out and identifying these are the locations where the easements
are going to be occurring.
Sometimes issues happen out in the field where the water line actually got installed 10 feet
to the west, so we've got to shift the easement 10 feet to the west.
So sometimes we have to make those allowances.
But in this case, the challenge with this particular project is because of some of the
deadlines associated with the financing.
And so it is difficult to get the federal government to modify their processes.
So therefore, it's incumbent upon cities to be able to help facilitate development applications
to be able to achieve goals, and one of our goals is the affordable housing aspect.
So ideally, the specific use permit would track through, be approved, they get through
all their entitlements, given the reconsideration request, not to mention some of the deadlines
that they've been working through, hence why these applications are starting to stack up
on top of each other.
Because plats are very ministerial in nature from a review standpoint, we either have to
approve them or deny them.
They either comply or they don't.
They have less subjectivity associated with it.
So that's why we're comfortable moving forward with these applications the way they are.
I think I might have missed one of your questions.
I think his question was basically, why are we not denying?
But I think the way we have the conditions set up is, I mean, it would be denied because
it's going to expire if the SUP is not approved.
So is that going down the line that you needed answered?
Yes.
Okay, perfect.
Yeah, the challenge on plats, as I mentioned, because they're ministerial, they either comply
or they don't.
And given that we've got this pending zoning out there, we're trying to help facilitate
that if the Planning and Zoning Commission makes a recommendation to council and ultimately
council approves that specific use permit, then these plats are very ministerial in nature
and will be able to be approved.
Right.
And if we just take it a little simpler, the plat meets all the criteria.
Correct.
The preliminary plat, the final plat.
So I mean, if we just take those out of context, I mean, that's where we are.
And we've added the condition on the final plat with respect to the civil engineering
plans, just because in the event something comes up as the part of the final review,
or if it comes up out in the field and they have to modify the civil engineering plan,
that we're basically putting the applicant on notice that we are approving this, but
it's also subject to you finalizing your civil engineering plan review, and in that way if
something changes on the civil engineering plans, we can be able to accommodate that.
Any other questions on this one?
Julie, you might as well stay up because we're moving to 5A, which is related.
5A is S220002.
All right.
Julie Wyatt, senior planner.
I won't go over all the slides we went over on the first time you saw this.
We'll just hit some highlights, but this is S22-002 pathway on Woodrow.
The request before you is for a specific use permit for multifamily dwellings.
The property is located just east of Woodrow, and it has a zoning designation of suburban
corridor district, which requires approval of an SUP for multifamily dwellings.
There is a riparian buffer along the eastern edge of the property.
They are not proposing to impact that riparian buffer.
Just a quick hit on the site plan, they are proposing 285 units in six three-story buildings.
They are also proposing open space and recreation amenities.
They've got parking for vehicles, as well as bikes on site.
Two connections to Dutchess.
They are proposing to construct all of Dutchess from Woodrow to their east property line,
so that would be the north and southern portion of that road.
As part of that, they're proposing construction of a 10-foot shared use path along Dutchess.
And then our engineering talked about that 10-foot shared use path along Woodrow, and
with the civil engineering plans have actually added that to the project as well.
The buildings are also sited to define that street, particularly that corner at Dutchess
and Woodrow.
The proposal is consistent with the future land use map with the Denton 2040 comprehensive
plan, as well as some other elements to that comprehensive plan.
So first, the future land use map, moderate residential.
That indicates about four to 12 dwelling units per acre, as well as transition areas between
single-family neighborhoods and mixed-use or commercial areas.
This is a little more dense than that typical four to 12 dwelling units per acre, but because
of the transitional area of this property, along an arterial near a note of employment,
it is appropriate in this location, particularly because we do anticipate that as you move
toward the east, densities would be lower.
Our comp plan also talks about that Denton's going to grow before 2040.
We're going to add quite a few residents, and we will need housing to accommodate those
residents.
And so this would accommodate that housing, and it would also facilitate a compact development
pattern because Woodrow's an existing roadway with existing water and sewer facilities in
the area.
So it's consistent with that.
It's consistent with the preferred land preservation plan, because it's not impacting the ESA.
And it's also consistent with our housing goals.
It's meeting the needs of our residents with a diverse array of housing, not only in type,
but in cost and in location.
And then it also provides that affordable housing choice.
And then compatibility with the surrounding area.
We always, within SUP, we look at the surrounding area, not just what's adjacent to the property,
but the context in which it sits.
This specific site is adjacent to Woodrow, which is a secondary arterial.
It's near a node of activity.
We've got a lot of county offices just to the west of the subject property, and that
blue star, as well as a commercial corner there at the intersection of Woodrow and McKinney.
So there's a lot of activity in the area.
A multifamily is an important part of mixed use areas.
It provides that housing for employees and customers for commercial uses.
Their proposed design is consistent with the surrounding area.
We do have other multifamily projects in the area, typically that garden style apartment.
And this is consistent with that, both in design and in the activities on site.
And then the surrounding zoning is SC.
So we anticipate that development's going to be consistent with this intensity and density.
Public outreach was sent out for the first meeting, as well as for this meeting.
We've received three notices in favor.
One was sent to y'all this afternoon, I believe.
It didn't make it in the packet, and those are shown in green.
And staff is recommending approval.
I won't read all of this to you.
It's in your backup material, but we are recommending approval with conditions that they would follow
that site plan that they're proposing.
And I'll be happy to answer any questions.
The applicant is here to answer questions tonight as well.
Thanks, Julie.
Commissioner Villarreal.
First off, thank you.
At the last Southeast Denton Neighborhood Association meeting, there was a good number
of contention and concern regarding this SUP and associated project.
I fully understand they did not fall within the 500-foot boundary to receive notices, but
their neighborhood will be greatly affected by this project.
Did the city have a liaison in attendance to hear in or address those concerns by chance?
I am not aware of a city liaison attending that meeting regarding this project.
I'm not aware of it either, unless we were invited there for some other reason, but I'm
not a...
Yeah, I don't recall us being invited to attend the meeting.
Gotcha.
Just curious.
Did you know that the applicant made an effort to talk with the Southeast Denton community
about their concerns?
I am not certain about their public outreach in terms of the Sedna community, but they
will be here tonight so they can answer any questions regarding additional public outreach.
Right, and there would be no legal objection to them doing further outreach past the 500-foot
courtesy boundary, correct?
We have a...
We don't prohibit it.
We have suggestions for how they do neighborhood outreach within the code.
We don't prohibit it.
It's kind of up to the applicant how they want to approach that.
Perfect.
Thank you.
Any other questions for Julie?
Okay.
Thank you very much.
See you in the meeting for that one.
Okay, 5B is Z220008.
Well, actually, Julie, that's you too.
It is on here as a postponement.
So is that something we are taking action to do or are we taking no action, I guess?
Maybe that's a Hillary question.
This is for the zoning case on Hercules, I believe, and we are re-noticing that.
So we will take no action on that.
Okay.
Correct.
Very good.
Thank you.
Okay, 5C DCA 220002.
I do not see Ron here, so it's going to be Haley.
Hi, Haley.
Good evening.
Yes, I will be helping us get through this one in Ron's absence this evening.
So Haley Zegerski, Assistant Planning Director.
I will run through the very brief presentation here at the work session, but we do have the
red line of subchapter two available if we need to pull that up and go through any sections
in full detail.
So just a little bit of background, since it's been a while since you all have seen
a code amendment.
So after our comprehensive update of the DDC in 2019, we did anticipate from the start
that we would have some amendments following that to address any nonconformities that were
created, new challenges created by state law changes, and things of that nature.
So we have been going through the Development Code Review Committee with a series of changes
since that there was a brief pause during kind of COVID when everything was shut down
and we did lose a little bit of traction there on those, but we've since got our DCRC back
up and running and they are meeting every other week.
So this is the first in a series of code amendments that will be coming before you all over the
next year.
So specific to subchapter two, this is a kind of comprehensive look at our procedures chapter
and the code, so subchapter two lays out the city's boards and commissions, as well as
all of our various application types that come through the staff review process, P&Z
and council.
So this is kind of a comprehensive update to that to address a series of changes.
So in the red line that was provided in your backup, you'd find there is a table that's
table 2.2A that outlines a summary of all of our processes.
So there's a variety of changes being made to that.
Some of that includes adding new application types that we've had in the city, but they
got left out of the table.
They might be referenced other places in the code.
So we're making sure that that is comprehensive.
We are changing pre-application conferences from being a requirement for most of our applications
to being a recommendation.
Not every project needs to come through a pre-application.
We do highly encourage it, but that would be a vesting action if we were to require
that.
So we want to remove that as a requirement and make it a recommendation.
We are updating a host of operational procedures related to the P&Z, the Zoning Board of Adjustment
and our other boards.
That section of the code was much more comprehensive in our 2002 DDC.
Many of those changes were left out with the thought that they might be folded into the
code of ordinances at some point, but in light of that not occurring and needing to get those
procedures back into a codified state, we're adding them back into the development code.
Some of the other changes are simply to make sure we're consistent with our checklist
and our fee schedules that we've adopted, and then we are updating our subdivision procedures
to make sure that those are compliant with all of the recent changes in state law.
We are adding some subdivision or some application types back to the code and introducing some
new ones as well.
So subdivision variances, you all have seen in the past, we do have one on the agenda
this evening that's actually authorized through our criteria manual, but that used to be a
section of the DDC, and we've identified a need to bring that back.
So that's one of those examples.
There are, as I mentioned, other things that are being updated, replant and annexations.
There have been some changes in state law that we're codifying, as well as aligning
our Zoning Board of Adjustments' appeal procedures with state law, and then making a variety
of other minor amendments to the code.
So I won't go in any more detail here, but I do have that red line document available
if we need to go through any sections that you all might have questions over.
Thanks, Haley.
Questions?
Commissioner Pruitt?
Just a small thing, I hope.
I noticed just in trying to absorb the table that some of the entries say public hearing
required for the R, D, or A, and the R refers to review/recommendation, and some of those
are, well, yeah, I'll stop there.
Can you help me understand what the difference between a review/recommendation that requires
a public hearing versus a recommended item with a diamond?
Let's see.
Let me try to get this pulled up so we can all look at the same thing.
And maybe I'm just confused because I don't understand two similar words, sorry.
So in light of the table, it would have to be a mile long to contain all of the details.
The review/recommendation simply means that that body is not making a final action on
that.
It's not the comments of an SUP, the development assistance team, and the director would review
that application and make a recommendation to the P&Z.
The P&Z then makes a recommendation to city council after review.
So it's simply trying to acknowledge that that's not the final decision.
I think it's finally clicking for me in that the public hearing required refers to the
brackets around the letter, not the actual letter.
And I was reading the brackets as meaning what makes that required is what's inside
of it as opposed to what bounds it.
The letter of the bracket and the triangle, for lack of a better word, I'm not sure what
that one is.
But yeah, they all have separate meanings to find at the top.
All right.
Thank you.
Other questions?
Haley, in the draft that's written here where section two references exhibit A, is that
going to -- I mean, it's blank on the draft.
I assume is it going to be -- Oh, in the draft ordinance?
Correct.
That would be the entire red line document.
Okay.
That's what I wanted to make sure that I understood what exhibit A is going to be.
Okay.
Perfect.
Anything else?
Okay.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll see you in the meeting.
Thank you.
I think that is the -- it is the end of our agenda.
So I will close our work session at 6 p.m.
We will see in council chambers at 630.
Thank you.
Good evening and welcome to the city of Denton's planning and zoning commission meeting for
Wednesday, June 22, 2022.
With the quorum present, I will call us to order at 631 p.m.
Let the record show that Commissioner Smith is absent tonight.
First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas Flags.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for
which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
On Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state, under God, one nation.
Thank you.
Next item on our agenda is the Consider Approval of Planning and Zoning Minutes for June 8th.
Chair can entertain discussion or a motion.
We're not seeing the button to make a motion.
Our board does not seem to be working to do that.
All right.
Why don't we -- let's -- there we go.
Commissioner Anderson.
Make a motion to approve the minutes.
Commissioner Villarreal.
Second.
All right.
We've got a first and a second for approval of the June 8th minutes.
Any discussion?
Okay.
Let's vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 6-0.
That takes us to item 3, Consent Agenda for this evening.
Is there a motion or discussion on the floor for Consent Agenda?
Commissioner Pruitt.
I'll move to approve the Consent Agenda.
Commissioner Villarreal.
Second.
We've got a first and a second to approve the Consent Agenda this evening.
Any discussion?
Okay.
Seeing none, let's vote on the board, please.
Okay.
That motion carries 6-0.
It takes us to item 4, Items for Individual Consideration.
4A is V-2-2-0-0-0-3.
And I know Mia's not here.
Who's presenting that item this evening?
Pretend -- there you are.
Hello there.
Good evening.
Give me one quick second.
Hi.
Good evening, Chair, members of the commission, Preet Hanidashmuk, Transportation Planning,
and I have a brief presentation on the item this evening.
This is related to London Dairy Multifamily, and start with a summary of the request.
We are requesting a variance for constructing a driveway approach that does not meet our
transportation criteria manual.
And there are a couple actual criteria is that it does not meet the minimum distance
of driveways between driveways that are on opposite side of the street has to be 75 feet.
And the other criteria it doesn't meet is driveways on the same side of the street have
to be 100 feet.
A quick overview of the site.
If you can follow the cursor, this is Sambas Boulevard, and it bends and becomes east-west
London Dairy, which finally connects to Teasley.
That's where the site is located.
It is on the northeast bend of London Dairy and Sambas Boulevard.
As you can notice, there is significant tree canopy in this north side, and we are requesting
a variance of a driveway that will be approximately located within this red circle area that will
not follow our current design standards.
It's approximately 80 feet from a driveway that's on the same side of the street and
30 feet from a driveway that's on the opposite side of the street.
Here are the details.
You can actually see that the driveway on the opposite side is approximately 30, a little
over 30 feet from the driveway that is proposed for this particular project, and it is a little
over 80 feet from an existing driveway that stands about here.
So considerations and recommendations.
This variance, particular variance, is considered hardship variances, and there are several...
We have to evaluate it based on several items.
We've looked at all of them.
The applicant has submitted a TIA and expects minimal traffic, so there is very minimal
impact to safety.
That's one of the main items that we'll have looked at.
The actual lot is an L-shaped lot, and there is significant coverage, so one of the things
we are trying to do is achieve our city's minimum tree preservation requirements, and
that's why the proposed building is slightly shifted, which has impacted the location of
the driveway.
And then the third one is to allow for it to meet the city's landscaping and tree preservation
criteria, and then also having a two-point access for this particular site.
So based on all of the evaluations that we've had, staff at this time recommends approval
of this variance request.
Okay.
Any questions for Preetam?
Okay.
I do not see any.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Commissioner Villareal.
I move approval of the variance request.
Commissioner Pruitt.
I'll second.
I'm really glad that we have this requirement, but I'm also glad in this case that we have
a variance procedure.
This road, while there are parking issues, as were pointed out in the work sessions,
we have a plan to address that, and it's not a road that's going to see a lot of traffic
or it's not two driveways of public streets that are going to cut off or make it difficult
for children to cross the road, so I'm comfortable with it.
Thanks.
We've got a first and a second for approval of the request.
Any further discussion?
Okay.
Let's go ahead and vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 6-0.
That will take us to 4B, FP 220018.
Hi, Angie.
Hi, good evening, all.
Angie Mingler, senior planner.
This is a final request for FP 220018 for a single lot of 22 acres to the west side
of Mayhill Road at the southern terminus of North Star.
At this time, staff is recommending denial as it does not meet all of our approval criteria.
However, staff has no objection to the requested extension, which could be granted to a date
of July 13th.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Commissioner Anderson.
Make a motion to approve the extension to date certain of July 13th.
Okay.
Commissioner Villarreal.
Second.
Okay.
We've got a first and a second for approval of the extension request to a date certain
of July 13th.
Any discussion?
Okay.
Seeing none.
Let's vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 6-0.
That will take us to 4C, PP 22003.
Hello, Ashley.
Good evening.
Ashley Hickok, assistant planner, City of Denton.
This is a preliminary plat for 51 residential lots at the intersection of 2499 and Hickory
Creek Road.
Staff recommends approval of this plat as it does meet all of the criteria for approval.
Happy to answer any questions.
Great.
Thanks.
Questions?
Okay.
I see none.
Thank you.
Commissioner Villarreal.
Move to approve.
Okay.
We've got a first for approval.
Commissioner Pruitt.
A second.
Okay.
We've got a second for approval.
Any discussion?
Okay.
Let's vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 6-0.
That will take us to 4D, PP 220011, one by Julie Wyatt.
Hi, Julie.
Good evening.
Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton.
I know we talked about this in work session, but I just wanted to remind you that we are
considering a preliminary plat and a final plat on tonight's agenda with the preliminary
plat being considered first for the Woodrow multifamily.
This was something that we did quite regularly prior to the Shot Clock legislation, but after
that legislation was enacted, we don't see it as often.
We take the projects in a more linear fashion.
That said, I want to talk about these individual projects.
The first one is PP 220011A.
This is a preliminary plat for the Woodrow multifamily project.
The subject property is located on the east side of Woodrow, south of McKinney.
The plat meets all of the city's criteria for approval.
However, we are recommending a conditional approval because it is being considered in
conjunction with a specific use permit.
The subject property zoning is suburban corridor, which requires a specific use permit for their
proposed use of multifamily.
You're going to be considering that specific use permit tonight, and then it's going on
to city council next week if it moves forward tonight.
We are recommending that condition related to the SUP, and that if the SUP is not approved
then the plat would expire.
I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Is there questions for Julie from the commission?
I do have some cards with this item number on them, but I'm wondering if you want to
speak on the public hearing item with regard to the SUP.
This item is the preliminary plat, which is kind of a ministerial thing for us.
If it meets all the criteria as far as how it's presented, then we must take action on
it.
You are welcome to speak on that, but if what you want to speak about is the SUP, I would
suggest we wait to the public hearing.
With that, I will call out ... I do have William Clark.
William, did you want to speak here, or did you want to wait for the public hearing?
I'll be honest, I'm not too familiar with all the proceedings and terms.
Can you come down to the podium and we can talk?
My name is William Clark and I live at 1109 Curley Street here in Denton.
I did want to speak on this issue, but I'm not real familiar with all the terminology
and the terms, and what that means is the public hearing and whatever, but I can tell
you now that I am here to speak in opposition.
Of the plat or of the specific use permit for the multi-family?
The plat, the specific use, I mean, there's a lot of history and that's why I need time
to ... I don't know, I guess depending on you to tell me when the best time is.
Go ahead, Tina.
Let me see if I can help.
Yeah.
So tonight on the agenda we have a preliminary plat and a final plat, and then we also have
the specific use permit request associated with the multi-family request for the commission's
consideration.
The preliminary plat and the final plat, the commission has very little discretion, if
you will, on their action.
They can either approve it or deny it or approve it with conditions.
Because of the ministerial nature of the preliminary plat, the commission has very little discretion
in terms of their action, because it's either going to comply with all of our development
regulations or not.
The item that has more discretion available to it is the consideration of the specific
use permit request, which is the public hearing item.
Okay.
That's what I was concerned with, the specific use.
That's what I guess I should wait then to speak on.
And we will get to that.
That is our first public hearing item tonight, which comes up in two items, and I can call
your name again for that item.
Okay.
That's fine.
Thank you.
And that will be the public hearing portion of our...
Sorry for breaking the call.
You have nothing to be sorry for at all.
This is a little bit confusing just because we have so much happening with the project
all at the same time.
And Commissioner Ellis, if I could add.
So just for the folks in the audience benefit, so the preliminary plat that Julie just gave
the overview on it, it has conditions associated with it.
So one of the conditions is subject to approval of the specific use permit.
So because that item occurs later on the agenda and the city council has the final decision
authority on the specific use permit, the commission is able to go ahead and move forward
with consideration of the plats this evening.
So if the commission chooses to approve the plat with the conditions this evening, one
of the conditions that has to be satisfied is city council approving the zoning.
Council could also choose to deny the zoning request.
So if council eventually denies the zoning request, then these plats would be automatically
expired.
So just want to let you all know that if the commission chooses to approve the plat, that
still gives them the flexibility to be able to render a separate decision on the specific
use permit action tonight.
And then also council will have that consideration of that specific use permit.
With that being said, were there any questions for Julie on the preliminary plot?
Okay.
Commissioner Anderson.
Make a motion to approve the plat with the staff recommendations.
Conditions.
Okay.
Commissioner Cole.
Second.
Second for approval with the conditions noted.
Any discussion?
Okay.
Let's vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 5-1.
That will take us to 4EFP-220019.
Hello again, Julie.
Good evening, Julie Wyatt.
This is a final plat for that previous item.
Once again, the subject property is located along Woodrow.
It meets all the technical requirements for the city of Denton, but we are recommending
approval with conditions, one that the civil engineering plans must be approved prior to
final approval of the final plat, and any changes that would be required on the final
plat as a result of the civil engineering plans may be necessary.
The multifamily use, the specific use permit for that must be approved prior to final approval
of the final plat, and then if that SUP is not approved by council, then the final plat
would expire.
I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Okay.
Any questions for Julie?
Thank you.
Commissioner Anderson?
I'll make a motion to approve the plat based on staff recommendations.
Okay.
Commissioner Cole?
Second.
We have a first and a second for approval with stated conditions.
Discussion?
Let's vote on the board, please.
That motion carries five-one, taking us to our public hearing portion of the evening,
5A, S220002.
I will invite Julie Wyatt up again this presentation, and I will open the public hearing.
Good evening, Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner with the City of Denton.
I'm presenting S220002D, Pathway on Woodrow.
I won't go, I'll go kind of through the slides kind of quickly because this item has gone
before you, but we'll just take a little time to just talk through it.
The request before you is for a specific use permit for multifamily dwellings.
The subject property is located on the east side of Woodrow, south of McKinney.
The zoning for the property is SC District, which requires approval of a specific use
permit for that multifamily use.
Additionally, there is a riparian buffer along the eastern property boundary of the subject
site.
I'm not proposing any impacts to that ESA area.
Just quickly talk about the site plan.
They're proposing 285 units in three, I'm sorry, six three-story buildings.
The proposal also includes open space and recreation amenities.
There's a clubhouse, a pool, a dog park on site.
They are proposing 476 parking spaces as well as bicycle parking.
There are two vehicular connections, two duchess shown outlined in yellow on your screen.
They're also proposing to construct the entire width of duchess from Woodrow to their eastern
boundary, which is one of our mobility plan roads.
It's intended to be a secondary arterial within the city.
As part of the construction of duchess, they are proposing a 10-foot shared use path along
the north side of that street that would accommodate both pedestrians and bicycles.
They're also proposing to extend that 10-foot shared use path along their frontage on Woodrow
consistent with our bike plan.
The buildings are sited to frame that street corner along Woodrow and duchess as shown
in the purple boxes.
The proposal is consistent with our Denton 2040 comprehensive plan.
There's really four areas that we looked at in the comp plan related to this proposal.
First, the future land use map.
The future land use map designates this subject property as well as the entire area as moderate
residential.
Moderate residential is intended for four to 12 dwelling units per acre.
It's also intended for transition areas between single-family neighborhoods and areas of higher
intensity.
While the subject properties or the subject request has a density a little higher than
what moderate density intends, because of the context of the area and its adjacency
to that employment center at the corner of McKinney and Woodrow, as well as the adjacency
to one of our arterials in town.
This density makes sense then to allow it to transition to lower densities as you move
toward the east.
Also in the comprehensive plan, the city is anticipating growth.
We're anticipating substantial growth between now and 2040, and as part of that growth,
we need housing to accommodate all of those new residents.
This proposal is consistent with that housing demand.
It's also near our urban core.
It's close to our downtown area.
It meets that need near our areas that are already developed, and also serves that compact
development pattern.
Woodrow's an existing right of way.
It's served with existing water and sewer.
It just serves for that infill development piece.
The preferred land preservation plan, that's really related to our ESAs and our floodplains.
They are not proposing to impact that ESA area on their eastern side, so it is consistent
with that portion of the comp plan.
Then finally, our housing goals.
Our housing goals encourage us to meet the needs of all of our residents, and we should
be providing a diverse array of housing in both choice, type, and location, and this
serves that need, as well as expand the availability of housing choice for members in our community
who need affordable housing.
We also look within the SUP at the compatibility of the surrounding area.
It's really one of the major tenants of SUPs, and we not only look at what's immediately
adjacent to the property, but also within the larger context.
In this particular area, it's a little difficult to see, but the site is outlined here in yellow,
and as I mentioned, it is adjacent to Woodrow, just on the eastern side.
Woodrow is a secondary arterial within our city, as I mentioned, and this site is also
adjacent to some nodes of activity.
You've got a lot of county offices just to the west of the subject property, as well
as some commercial uses at that intersection of McKinney and Woodrow, so that node of activity.
Multifamily can be an important part of our mixed use centers.
It provides that necessary housing for not only places of employment, but also for our
commercial areas.
It's also consistent with the surrounding design.
We looked at the surrounding multifamily.
There is multifamily within the area.
We looked at how they were designed, and the proposal, the garden style apartment, it is
consistent with what's existing, providing those onsite amenities like pools and club
houses.
The density of 24 dwelling units per acre is pretty consistent with the surrounding area,
and then that development scale of three stories is also consistent with the surrounding area.
And then the zoning, SC, the subject property has SC zoning, as well as properties to the
south and to the north of the site, and we anticipate that those areas will develop with
uses in a development scale and intensity consistent with the proposal.
So the project is consistent with that surrounding area, as well as the goals of the comprehensive
plan.
Public outreach was sent out in accordance with our DENT development code.
We did it for the first meeting, as well as with this reconsideration meeting.
We've received three notices in favor of the request, or responses in favor, sorry, and
those are shown in green on your screen.
So based upon the criteria for approval, staff is recommending approval of the request.
I won't read all of the conditions, but we do attach conditions to SUPs as well as the
site plan and landscape plan to ensure that if the project is approved, that it would
develop in a manner consistent with what was shown at PNZ.
I'll be happy to answer any questions.
The applicant is here to answer questions as well.
Great.
Thank you, Julie.
Commissioner McDade.
Thank you.
Julie, could you go back to, well, yeah, you sent out the notices?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
I'm looking at the 500-foot buffer.
Is that a neighborhood or is that just an empty field?
I don't know exactly.
So we do send out notices to property owners within 200 feet of a request and then to utility
customers within 500 feet of the request.
Okay.
Given the site's location, the 200-foot boundary clipped some vacant property to the south
and to the west, as well as the multifamily or two multifamily projects to the north and
some commercial uses, as well as some county offices.
The 500-foot boundary also clipped essentially the same areas, adding in some park property
as well as those, a larger portion of those county offices.
Okay.
On the west, I'm looking at, well, I don't know what way I'm looking at this because
I'm trying to figure out where this property actually is because you keep saying the corner
of Woodrow and McKinney, but McKinney's nowhere near that.
You're looking at 1,300 feet from McKinney.
Correct.
Yes, sir.
That's why I'm trying to figure out the 500-foot buffer on all four areas with no neighborhood
or was it just...
There are no neighborhoods within 500 feet of the request, just those county offices.
And the jail.
Yes, sir.
The jail.
They have no vote.
Okay, I was just curious because I wasn't sure how I was looking at this to where exactly
in a neighborhood or just...
Sure.
Absolutely.
Yes, sir.
All right.
Thank you.
And Julie, you might want to say how it's drawn for every request, how the boundary
is drawn?
Of the request or of the...
How we draw the 200 and 500-foot buffer of every request.
So we take the property boundary and we measure out linearly that 200-foot boundary and it
encompasses all of that area within 200 feet out from the subject site and then again from
the 500 feet.
So it takes in all of that buffer.
Did that...
Yeah, I just wanted to...
Yeah, it explained, yeah, for the public of how we do it.
It's done the same way for any public hearing request.
And sometimes that encompasses undeveloped properties, sometimes it encompasses businesses
or governmental buildings or apartment complexes or what have you.
So just depends on where the site is and what's around it.
Of course, Tina.
Just for the benefit of those that are in the audience, so the 200-foot notification
requirement, we are required to notify all property owners based on the latest approved
tax rules that own property per state law.
So the additional 500-foot notification, the courtesy postcards that we send out, that's
what we, the City of Denton, do as a courtesy to our residents and property owners within
our community.
So we go above and beyond what the minimum state law requirement is for a specific use
permit request.
Thanks.
Commissioner Villarreal.
I have a couple of questions for the applicant.
Okay.
I haven't invited them up yet, so we're still on Julie questions.
Apologies.
No worries.
Okay.
Is Julie at the moment?
Okay.
Thank you, Julie.
Thank you.
Does the applicant have a presentation for us, or are you just?
I'm going to take that as a yes.
Maybe.
Is that better?
All right.
There you go.
Good afternoon.
Good afternoon, commissioners.
Great.
Karsten Lowe, 19240 Redland Road, Suite 114, San Antonio, Texas, 78259.
So we are Pathway, we're an affordable housing developer, and so we're actually here to speak
to you today about Pathway on Woodrow.
It's a 285-unit multifamily development for, it's 100% affordable, with 85% of the units
being for individuals earning 60% or below area median income, and 15% of the units for
applicants earning 30% or below area median income.
So one of the highest thresholds of affordability that can be had for the low-income housing
tax credit program.
So as you can see, when we were picking the site, we were looking at the proximity.
We saw the major thoroughfare of Woodrow Parkway, the close proximity to downtown, the fact
that it's two miles from the nearest Kroger.
All the schools are in close proximity, and so we were looking at this as the ultimate
benefits of a multifamily community.
And so as a part of this, we went and we reached out to several members of the community.
We reached out to the county judge.
We reached out to the school board, and so we've attempted to obtain community support
throughout the entire process.
According to community neighbors, we've had our first neighborhood meeting prior to the
first time we came and spoke to y'all, and then again, we are having another community
meeting on the 27th of June at the Martin Luther King Center, and that's going to be
at 6 p.m.
And so for us, we want to build something that will benefit the community, but for people
to serve the needs and meet the needs of affordability in the city of Denton.
And so this is a part of a larger concept.
This whole census tract is widely undeveloped because there is so much floodplain in the
area, but we see this as just a part of the housing for the census tract.
You can see in the top, our 285 units is going to be part of a larger master plan community.
So the entity we're purchasing this from is also the holder of the rest of this land,
and so their ultimate goal is to develop this, is to put more single-family units on the
ground.
So specifically, as Julie said, there's going to be six three-story garden-style buildings,
and we wanted to have an emphasis on just overall infrastructure and, you know, being
sure that we're meeting access plans, connectivity to Mack Park and the immediate back border,
as well as having community amenities.
We're going to have over 2,800 square foot community center that's going to have after
school programs.
It's going to provide other support for just the various residents of our community, along
with a resort-style pool, playscapes.
Throughout the development, there's going to be all Energy Star appliances, granite
countertops, hard surface flooring throughout.
So we take pride in our developments, and so this is an example elevation of what we're
proposing the development's going to look like.
We also do market-rate developments, and we use the same architects.
We use the same interior designers.
We use the same civil engineers.
We want our product to be as high-quality of a development as we possibly can.
And so you can see here, this is just an example of one of our developments in San Antonio,
but we have everything from walk-in showers, on-site management.
And so we believe that this development will add to the City of Denton.
It will provide much needed affordable housing, while still being a quality development that
furthers the need for affordable housing.
And so we also have one of the partners, Darren Woodson, here to speak on behalf of the development.
Thank you.
Darren Woodson, 5614 Boca Raton, Dallas, Texas.
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
This has been a pleasure to be around and really be a part of the City of Denton.
The reason I'm here, and I got to give you my why.
My why is, for the longest time, I was a former Dallas Cowboy, played 13 years with the organization.
After that, went on to be with ESPN as an analyst for another 13 years again, but my
why was never my purpose.
My purpose today is to give back and provide social programming.
I'm on the board of United Way in Dallas.
I'm on the board of Make-A-Wish Foundation in C5, Texas.
My why is to give and serve the community.
At Woodrow, what we're doing, at Pathway of Woodrow, what we're trying to provide in-house
on the club, in the club facility is after-school programming, laptops, financial literacy classes.
We are also providing $25,000 scholarships annually to the community.
We want to give.
We want to serve.
We understand what we're trying to do.
We want a partner.
One thing we're going to do as far as who we are is we're going to be there for 15 years.
We can't get out.
We cannot sell this property for 15 years.
We want to be a partner here in Denton for the long haul, and in doing so, we know we
have to serve and we have to give.
As Carson mentioned, we know where we are.
We're not in a food desert.
We're 1.7 miles, actually, Carson, from the local Kroger, right down the street from Rivera
Elementary School.
Denton Ryan is not there.
We know we're going to serve the kids and the children in that community, and it's our
goal to have everyone, like I would say, graduate and then get into their own single family
home from there.
That's a win-win for us, but again, we want to be a long, long-term, and we will be a
long-term partner.
Again, thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Appreciate you.
Anybody else?
Okay.
Commissioner Villarreal, I know you had a question for the applicant, correct?
Hello.
Hi.
I'm Diane Baker.
I'm a long-term resident of Denton.
I went to T.W. and graduated, coached there, and been there forever, and I joined the Housing
Authority a year and a half ago, and I'm going to introduce my president in a minute.
I'm vice president.
It came to my notice very quickly that we had to have two things happen.
One, as a city of Denton, I was very concerned about what I was seeing in the streets, and
I felt like that the city as a whole, every entity of it, had to work together.
We have to work together to fix our housing problem.
We can't be one thing over here and another thing over there and another thing over here.
The other thing that I saw was I was told that we had 2,500 people the first time around
that did not have houses.
Then it went up to 4,500 people that did not have houses.
Now the last count that I have is 6,500 people in Denton, Texas, one of the best cities in
the country, do not have housing.
I do not care if our housing is on the top of T.W.'s tower at the president's deal.
We have to have housing, and we have to join together to come together to figure out how
we can do that.
I am in support of this.
We as a committee worked very hard.
We looked at the pros and cons.
I think this will be good for Denton, Denton, Texas will prosper for this.
If I can introduce my president, Beverly Bryant, for a couple words, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Okay.
Yeah, I got a little bit confused if we were still on the applicant presentation or not.
It sounded like we were for a moment there.
Come on up, Beverly, and then I'm going to tie things and straighten things out here.
All right.
So I am Beverly Bryant.
I am the chair for the Denton Housing Authority, and as the Denton Housing Authority chair,
we see the need for affordable housing in Denton County as we have this crisis across
the country.
So I am here in support of this Pathway Woodrow project as it will bring 285 affordable, 100%
affordable units to our community.
Thanks, Beverly.
Okay, so I'm going to circle back and head back to where I thought we were, which was
the applicant presentation.
So Commissioner Villarreal, did you have a question for the applicant?
Yeah, a couple questions.
Okay, I'm going to let you ask that now, and then we're going to move to some public comments.
So at the last Southeast Denton Neighborhood Association meeting, there was a good amount
of contention and concern regarding this SEP and associated project.
I fully understand that the neighborhood did not fall within the 500-foot boundary to legally
be required, but their neighborhood will be greatly affected by this project, and they
are within about 1,000 feet of the proposed project.
Have you had the opportunity to discuss this project with community members and leaders
in Southeast Denton?
So yes, Commissioner Villarreal.
So we've spoken with the individual local leaders, both with the Denton Housing Authority,
we've spoken with Councilwoman Byrd, we've spoken with the mayor about this development.
Throughout the process, we have done our best to get involved in community engagement, and
to your point, we plan to continue to do so, and that's why we're also coinciding our meeting
with an existing neighborhood meeting on that 27th of this month, is to be able to speak
to that and to be able to address those concerns, because we do value the community's opinion
greatly.
So that did answer my second question, which was that you will be at the SED and the meeting
this month?
Correct.
Gotcha.
I have one more question.
At the May 11th P&Z meeting, members of the applicant's team referred to the project as
both "a new Class A community" and simultaneously as an "artificial buffer" between the jail
and a future single-family development.
I think word choice and intention matter, and I believe all Dentonites should be treated
with dignity and respect, especially to working-class folks who will make up the development's
hypothetical renters.
Do you envision this project as a community built to give working-class families, including
many single mothers and children, a respectable apartment to live?
Or is it simply a buffer for the higher-end single-family development you'll have planned
for the future?
And you're exactly right.
Word choice does matter, and we must have misspoken, and so I apologize on behalf of
the development team.
But I will say that this is going to be a development for the single mothers, for the
families, for the students.
We're going to have programs to build up the community.
This is not something where we're attempting to necessarily buffer, per se, for the sake
of some other single-family investor somewhere.
We are building this development for the city of Denton, for the affordable housing residents,
for the people that can be lifted up and empowered through the programs that we plan to provide.
Appreciate it.
Commissioner McDade?
Thank you, Chair.
I may need Denton Housing at the podium with you all, so this question is going to be a
two-part one.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
But at the last meeting that you had, you had it broken down about how many apartments
or one bedroom.
Do you have that documentation?
Yes, sir.
I can go pull that, or actually I believe ... I'll pull it up for you right now.
Okay.
So you had it broken down and you also had the prices out, so that's ...
Yes, sir.
Let me get that in my notes here.
Perfect.
We have 102 one-bedroom units, 111 two-bedroom units, 51 three-bedroom units, and 21 four-bedroom
units.
I'll pull up the rental prices as well.
But at the last meeting, I know the one-bedroom you had it at 548, and the four-bedroom you
had at 758, but I think I saw in the city council meeting, I want to check the price
of the four-bedroom because I do believe you haven't laid one brick, but you've already
raised the prices.
So the way our rents are regulated is through HUD, so all of our rental prices, we don't
make those prices.
That's determined by the federal government and HUD.
So they base it off the area median income of Denton County.
So those numbers we're giving you, yes, they're correct, but they're subject to change basically
based upon what HUD gives us.
Okay.
And now ... Thank you.
I just need you to walk me through because I mean, I don't know how housing authority
works.
I really don't, but I'm looking at ... When I think about affordable housing, I think
of a couple with two or three children.
And I'm looking at ... You have the one-bedroom, you have 102 one-bedrooms, and you have 111
two-bedrooms.
I'm trying to figure out the demographic of what you're actually trying to get into those
apartments, because if I'm married and I have a daughter and a son, I know Denton Housing
Authority, I don't think they allow them to share a bedroom, so that'd knock me out of
the two-bedroom.
Is that how it works?
Yeah, that is.
Actually, Denton really needs more one-bedrooms, so one-bedrooms was ... When we seen the number
of one-bedrooms we could get with this development, it was really a big bonus, because seniors
also can live in this.
That's true, yeah, like I said, and I normally, I relate when I hear affordable housing, not
only to seniors veterans, but I'm thinking of single parents with multiple children.
And that's why I can say, this is what drew me to a no at the last meeting, because had
those numbers been reversed and you had more the three and four bedrooms, I wouldn't have
an issue with that.
But I know you need more single bedrooms and two bedrooms, but I'm looking at the people
who are going to be left out, because if I have two children, I'm already knocked out
of the 102 and I'm knocked out of the 111, I have less than a 25% chance of even getting
into this project, and that's what really ... I didn't understand that, and that's why
I was a no, because I can say, I don't really understand how the Housing Authority works,
but I know the one and two bedrooms, you leave out a big majority of the people who actually
need affordable housing.
Thank you.
Commissioner Pruitt, did you have a question for the applicant?
Yes, thank you, Chair.
Since a couple of times the affordability and rents and that sort of things have comes
up, I just want to try to set the stage for how these projects work a little bit.
I know we could have a master's degree in LIHTC and I don't want to go there, but I
just want to make sure I'm understanding when I look at the map correctly.
When I look at HUD's map, I don't see any qualified census districts north of University
Drive.
They're kind of clustered in the south of Denton, and my understanding is that those
low income housing tax credit developments, if they are within a qualified district, provide
a certain percentage equity boost that essentially allows you to provide more affordable units.
Correct.
My follow up then is, I know you haven't run the numbers, but just from your experience
seeing LIHTC, that's really hard to say, sorry, properties like this, what percentage more
of affordable units do you get when they're placed in a district like this?
Yeah, so it's not necessarily amount of number of more affordable units, it actually boils
down to whether or not you can financially develop the actual development itself.
With rising construction costs and interest rates and the myriad of other challenges that
COVID and just this environment poses, candidly, if we didn't have a tax credit boost, which
is either a qualified census tract or a difficult to development area, and that's also, like
you said, on the map from HUD, we could not develop this particular development in Denton.
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
I don't see any other questions for the applicant at this time, so I am going to start calling
cards that I have.
Nathaniel Johnson.
If you will come down and state your name and address, your time will begin to speak.
Hi.
I wasn't expecting to be the first one to speak because I was the last one to get a
card.
But my name is Nathaniel Johnson.
I live at 6109 Thurbray Trail, Denton, Texas, 76210.
Something that I've heard speak in favor of this tonight, don't live in the black community.
This particular development won't have a negative impact on the homeowners that have been residing
in the black neighborhood in Southeast Denton.
With this development, you're going to increase the traffic that's going to come through the
black community.
And those of us that are familiar with Woodrow and Marth, right now it's hard to get onto
Marth from Woodrow.
So if you're going to add 86 kids to Thomas Rivera, now you're adding 86 more cars to
the traffic.
Also, these gentlemen here that are in favor of it, nine times out of 10, once this deal
is done, you don't see them again.
So we need to focus on that.
With this SUP, once you open the door for them, who's to say that they're going to be the
only developers to come?
So you have 285 units with them.
And then when someone else comes with another SUP, then you're going to add another 285,
another 300, and it's just going to be basically impossible to move around in that community
because people are going to leave Woodrow trying to go down Marth Street because right
now, Shady Oaks is hard to get onto.
They're going to hit Morris, then go to Robertson, Chambers, Ruth, all the different avenues
to get there impacting the residents that live there.
And the Denver is a big city.
There's other places that they can do it.
Affordable housing just don't have to be in the black neighborhood or the black part of
town.
I mean, because with this, you really, it's just an inconvenience to the people.
But not saying that people don't deserve a place to live, let me clear that up.
Not saying that.
What I'm saying is this project, if it's that good, it's that great, it could be put somewhere
else in the city versus impacting the people that live here.
So if you turn a blind eye to the residents who have homes, property, invested in this
city for over 50 years, for an area of, for basically profit making money down the line,
because they haven't said in 15 years, after this contract is over, does the price go up
after 15 years?
Once that's done, does it go up?
They haven't answered that question, only if anybody's ever asked it.
So when they come to the center meeting, expect to fight it because I'm going to have more
questions.
I'm going to have more questions.
And that's my time.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
Next, Mr. Clark.
Hello again.
I'm William Clark.
I live at 1109 Curley Street in Texas.
Thank you.
76205.
Mr. Johnson pretty much hit on several things I already spoke of.
I noticed that the 500 or 200, the distance or the perimeter or whatever that you had
to get approval, none of us necessarily live in that area because it's a wooded area.
I used to hunt there, you know, it's on the edge of town.
But as he said earlier, we feel the effects of traffic every day.
I've been fighting with the city of Denton for two years for traffic enforcement on our
street.
They drag race.
Matter of fact, our street was torn up for a year.
And now that it's paved and it looks real nice, I think they felt like that made it
even better for drag strip.
And I'm not exaggerating, most of the times if you step outside here, you can hear the
noise and the drags was going up and down the street from this distance.
I've asked for traffic assistance, you know, or more up beat patrol in our area because
of this.
We get signs put out that are right at the intersection, the digital signs that actually
mark your speed.
But they didn't place them where they needed to be, where they can actually collect data.
That means either they don't want to because they have to do something about it or they're
not real smart.
So we already have enough with traffic.
You're going to add, like you said, 285 units.
You can't hardly get on to Woodrow certain times of the day.
And forget turning left off Morris headed Northbound on Woodrow pretty much all day.
And I heard it said earlier that you want to accommodate people, all four people having
housing.
Everybody has a place to live.
I hate seeing somebody without just some place to cover their head.
But what about accommodating the people that have been there?
I've been there most of my life.
Except for when I went to college and came back home and I've served my community.
My parents have.
We've been there for over 100 years.
And the first I've heard of this now that supposedly they spoke with people from the
community, the mayor and the commission, the city council lady.
I didn't hear about this until yesterday or yeah, yesterday.
And that's easy to say.
And again, I'm not trying to stop anybody from having a place to live, but we need some
consideration.
We have enough.
And also, like Mr. Johnson took all my points, but anyway, if it's a good idea, everybody's
all for affordable housing, it pulls the tugs at your heartstrings, but not in my community.
It always ends up over here.
And nobody is doing anything about or for the residents that are here.
We've been fighting, like I said, for two years.
I've been chased by dogs.
I've had to kill dogs in my yard.
I've had to protect my 87-year-old mother from packs of dogs.
I've had to kill dogs for killing my livestock and my pastor in the back, protect my neighbor,
my wife who is disabled.
And I'm the guy that's the troublemaker.
And I've heard this and they don't know that I know, but I'm retired law enforcement 30
years.
I think I know a little bit about serving people and about what crime and what affordable
housing means.
And I'm not saying that everybody is poor, is a bad person, we all know better than that.
But we do know the things that tend to come with that.
Let's just be honest.
And you're adding us to take on another burden with less patrol, with less security, less
response from law enforcement.
Now some of these other places in town, and yes, I do have an inside track on some things,
they can complain, they'll dedicate resources to it, and not only that, but they'll go back
and go door to door to say, "Hey, how are we doing, are you happy with our response?"
I don't talk to anybody.
They show up in my yard for me calling them for a 911 call, I'm standing here with a pistol
keeping dogs off my family.
And they're more concerned about me as a retired law enforcement officer with a handgun on
my own property.
Then they never asked my mom, "Was anybody bitten?
Anybody hurt?"
I'm sorry, that's my time.
That's okay.
You can finish up.
We're fed up.
And then you're bringing something else.
Now we'll be dealing with that and we won't get a response when we need it.
That's all I have to say.
Thank you, Mr. Clark.
I'm going to call up another card I have, Cynthia.
I'm sorry, Cynthia, I cannot read your last name.
Hello, please state your name and address and your time will begin.
Hi, everyone.
My name is Cynthia Cochran.
What else I need?
My address?
Yes, please.
I live at 2420 East McKinney Street, Denton, Texas, 76209.
Thank you.
I was coming out tonight, I just have a few little things that I would like to say.
I hope everybody in here got feelings and everybody's not living in situations that
different people lives in, everybody got different living quarters.
But first of all, I would just like to say we as Southeast Denton citizens and renters
or either home buyers, whatever we are, and we've been in Southeast Denton for quite a
long time, we are over packed in Southeast Denton.
I don't think it's enough room for us to ride bicycles through these streets over in
Southeast Denton.
It's like every time something comes up, I tell them when we have our meetings and things
that it's Southeast Denton is like we trash cans.
Everything that happens, we get trash dumped on top of us.
We are so crowded over there right now.
And I'm not saying either, I want everybody to have a place to live, and I'm not down
in anything, but I just would like to say that's going to be more crime.
We don't have no parking spaces.
We are just basically overcrowded, but everything always comes back to Southeast Denton.
So I'm just kind of figuring is Southeast didn't the only spot that got property or
I don't know what's going on in Southeast Denton, but we are crowded and packed.
And I would just like to say, I just don't think to me, it would be a good idea for us
to get, we already have more houses and stuff over there now that we trying to pose that
they bring in to us in Southeast Denton.
And with this project, that's going to be an action when added on to it.
So like I say, we are packed, we're crowded, after a while we're going to ride bicycles.
We barely can get through our streets now.
It's just overcrowded and packed.
So anyway, I was just here and wanted you all to know this.
So thank you for letting me speak.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Next card I have is Audrey Battle.
Hello, you'll say your name and address, your time will begin.
I live at 723 Hill Alley, I have been there for over 20 years and I have been a resident
of Denton for over 50 years, came from Louisiana and moved here once on my own home.
I am here on behalf of my grandkids that's coming up.
Southeast Denton has been an area that I have lived on and I'm looking at something right
here in Woodrow Lane.
And it says it's at 1.365 feet of land.
East McKinney coming on Woodrow Lane, bell-bouncing, bell-bouncing, bell-bouncing, then the courthouse.
Then when you get south of Woodrow Lane, it's a car lot, then there is business place.
But then when you get a little further, they have property and there's an all-well sitting
in the field that they dug up back in the early '20s.
We have suffered in Southeast Denton, we had one grocery store, Winn-Dixie, they took it
from us.
Now we have to go east, we have to go north, west, and we have to travel in to go get groceries.
Then they rezoned on last year, the year before my granddaughter could ride the bus to get
to the school where she was going.
But they rezoned it in that area, then all of a sudden when we find out she could not
even ride the bus.
So when are they going to stop rezoning in our area and move somewhere else?
We need affordable houses, we need homes, but who are they for?
And who are benefiting from them?
The thing it is in Southeast Denton that we need, we don't get it.
And that is a grocery store.
The old people that cannot drive, they have to get on the bus to get to the grocery store.
When are we going to get what we need in our neighborhood?
We pay tax, we live in the area, we want to help people, we want to do things.
But everything that is affordable is not for us.
And everything that is coming in our neighborhood is to benefit someone that don't live there.
So when is it going to be the people that have been in those area for all these years
is going to benefit?
Ms. Bailey is right here, she have to drive or get someone to take her to the grocery
store.
When is it going to benefit us?
The school area is right there.
We don't need nothing else.
We have the Martin Luther King Salmon.
What else is coming in?
Do something to benefit the people in the neighborhood.
Thank y'all and y'all have a blessed evening.
Thank you.
Next card I have is Melody Manuel.
I'm very new to this, but I heard about this project and I felt like I was supposed to
show up.
Then the note said that if you write a note, it won't be noted.
So here I am.
Will you state your name and address for the record, please?
My name is Melody Woodson Manuel.
I live at 1036 Remy Circle in Denton, 76205.
Now my address is about 1300, 1400 feet away from the stop sign that is at Morse and Woodrow.
Like these others that have spoken already, can't add too much to what they've said, but
from my personal experience, for the last 30 years, well, I should say the last 10,
15 years, it's gotten so crowded, you really can't turn left on Woodrow already.
So to add 280 something apartments means many more cars, much more traffic, and I also fear
more crime.
So what I see this doing is overcrowding our area a whole lot more than what it already
is.
And I agree with the young lady that just spoke.
Give us something that's going to really help our neighborhood and not hinder it.
And I think that adding more apartments, more people is going to cause more issues.
I went through with my kids, my grandkids that I had custody of a few years ago, because
of the new apartments on McKinney Street, we got rezoned and instead of going to this
school, the school that's in my neighborhood that's a block over, they ended up going to
a school that's two miles away, three miles away.
And then instead of going to McMath Middle School, they were going to Calhoun, all because
of rezoning.
If I had lived on Shady Shore, of course, they could have gone to the school they could
have walked to, a street over.
So these new apartments will cause new zoning because these kids would have to go to school
somewhere.
You're going to have four and three bedroom apartments there.
They're going to have to go to school somewhere.
And I agree again with what she said.
It's going to be rezoned again and we're going to be pushed further out for more people
coming into the neighborhood.
Do something to help us and not hurt us.
Thanks.
Thank you.
The next card I have is Collette Johnson.
You'll state your name and address for the record.
Your time will begin.
Hi.
My name is Collette Johnson and my address is 327 Rue Street in Texas, 76205.
I've lived, well, I don't live there.
My parents live there who are still married after 61 years.
That's where I grew up there.
And I'm here on behalf of the neighborhood group.
I am president of the Southeast Indian Neighborhood Association.
The association has been in business since 1999.
We've had this neighborhood group and no one has contacted me about this project.
No one has brought it to the group, nothing.
So we are very disappointed because it seems like everything goes over our head and we
know nothing about it.
And we meet every fourth Monday.
Everybody knows that.
All you have to do is call MLK.
Everyone knows when the neighborhood group meets.
We have the MLK center there that has after school programs.
So building these apartments just to enforce after school programs, we already have that.
So like everyone else is saying, it's just gonna bring more traffic, more cut-throughs
through our neighborhood, Morris Street.
We already have apartments being built by the cemetery.
They should have been widening the cemetery, making more spaces for people because the
cemetery, they're just burying people on top of each other.
So if you wanna do something, let's make the cemetery bigger, but not more apartments.
We already have apartments.
We have eight acres where Habitat is building 35 houses in the neighborhood.
So we have all this traffic coming along and like everyone says, yes, people need affordable
housing, but everything does not have to go in southeast Denton.
There are other places to put affordable housing.
We already have it.
We already have it and it's more other people living in it than people that's been there
all their lives.
They can't get anything.
So we wanna know who is affordable housing for and why does it have to be built in our
neighborhood?
Like we have everything.
Like they said, we need a grocery store.
Build a grocery store for us right there.
Be perfect.
Yes, Kroger is a mile and seven or whatever, but it's busy.
So this would be an added addition to the neighborhood that we could look forward to.
But like I said, I think I heard them say that they were meeting on June the 27th at
six o'clock.
That's our meeting date.
So I don't know if they're meeting with us.
No one's told me or even let me know that there was a meeting going on, but this is
our regular meeting Monday at six o'clock.
So like I said, it just seems like everything is brought to you guys and pushed forward
and we know nothing about it.
So I'm proud that everyone came out tonight to speak, to let you know what's really going
on.
We didn't know this was going on until a couple of days ago.
So I've been waiting on a phone call from somebody and I never got it.
So we're just here to let you know that we don't want it.
We just don't want it.
Find somewhere else to build it.
We're all for affordable housing, but just find somewhere else to put it.
Thank you.
I think we have a question for you, Commissioner Pruitt.
Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Johnson?
That's fine.
I just have a quick question for you.
First of all, thank you for your service and volunteering with the Neighborhood Association
and what you do.
In trying to understand kind of some of the big concerns, is it your experience that maybe
the traffic issues are the most worrisome?
Traffic and crime.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Can I ask a question as well, please?
So with this particular tract of land that we're dealing with tonight, which is this
almost 12-acre tract off of Woodrow, what would you like to see develop there on those
12 acres?
First of all, we need a red light.
It is zoned.
Let me just say there needs to be a red light in Morrison-Woodrow because, like they said,
it is way too hard to get off of Morris Street to make a left and when school is going on,
it's impossible.
I mean, take the time and come out and see and you'll see, we have been fighting for
traffic.
I understand.
We're trying to work with the police to get something done about the cut-throughs.
They're cutting through Morris Street to hurry up to get to the mall or to wherever people
are going, but like I said, a grocery store would be nice.
We just don't need more apartments.
They're building apartments by our graveyard and we need the graveyard expanded, but we're
getting apartments, so we're already getting apartments and habitat homes, 35 of them on
eight acres.
Okay, and I understand that you're talking about a much larger area.
But just not more apartments.
What we're talking about is just this particular piece of property.
That's what we're really talking about tonight.
That's what we have to deliberate on and make a decision about, is that particular tract
of land that we saw up there.
Yeah, but you asked what would we like to see?
I'd say a grocery store.
Okay.
A grocery store.
Madam Chair.
I was about to call on you, Commissioner Dave.
Yeah, I was going to say, I think it would be better if you explained to them how it's
zoned now and what can be built on that property as it is zoned right now.
I think it's an SC.
The property is zoned SC.
I think if you let them know what can actually be built on an SC, they would get a better
understanding and they could tell you actually what they want on that property.
And that's fine and it's more of a rhetorical question because we can't force any developer
to build anything.
Right.
It is their land and if it's within the zoning, they can build it.
Yes.
The way our development code reads is they would like to put multi-family on here.
They have to come and get a specific use permit in order to do that.
That is the only residential use that can be built on this particular tract of land.
It can't be single-family homes.
It's not zoned for that.
It could be a lot of things in SC.
It could be a club, a lodge, a daycare.
But again, you have to look at where this 11 and a half acres is too and realistically
what is the developer going to come in and put there.
That's really what we've got to focus on tonight.
Yeah, but when they said something about a clubhouse being built there, all the kids
are going to leave MLK Center, which is just a block and walk across Woodrow to a clubhouse
when we already have after school situation there.
Well, I think it's a clubhouse that's an amenity for the people who live there at the apartment.
Children will try to get over there if it's something going on.
But like I said, we meet Monday at 6 o'clock, so they're more than welcome to come to our
meeting because like I said, no one has reached out to the neighborhood.
No one has reached out to the neighborhood.
I think that might be their plan, but we'll work to find that as this meeting takes care
of it.
Okay.
I do have some white cards.
Catherine Bell, do you want to speak?
And you don't have to.
Would you like to speak?
No.
Okay.
So Catherine Bell is in opposition of the project.
Irene Rogers, I have a card here in opposition.
Did you need to speak?
Okay.
Shirley Matherson is in opposition.
Did you wish to speak?
Okay.
And this is a public hearing.
Even if I don't have a card, you are welcome to come to the podium if you have not spoken
already and speak to us.
Is there anyone who has not spoken who wishes to come?
Can we speak again one more time?
If we have a question for you.
Hang on just a second.
Let me see if I've got anyone on the phone line.
Okay.
I do not.
Is there anyone else wishing to speak?
I have a question.
We talked about 11 acres.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Here.
We'll do it this way.
Did you have another question for us?
Yes.
The question is, is it just the 11 acres on that particular tract or is that 11 acres
part of more acreage in that particular area?
We are dealing with an 11-point acre tract of land for this request.
So how much is the total?
It is the total tract.
11.8 acres.
For this particular development, right?
Correct.
But is that not part of a larger acreage in that particular area?
There's other undeveloped land in the area.
So how many acres is that?
If you have that answer, but that's not what we're considering.
But go ahead.
So and I think maybe some of the confusion might be is as part of Carson's presentation,
he showed a graphic that showed this property in context with some other property that he
noted as single-family residential.
That property, the portion that was shown as single-family residential is not under
consideration tonight and is not part of this request.
So the commission's ability is limited to, as Commissioner Ellis mentioned, is the subject
property tonight.
That's the roughly 12-acre tract.
So the rest of the area shown on that graphic, nothing has been submitted to us for review
or consideration on the rest of that property.
It could develop potentially a single-family residential.
It could potentially be something else depending upon what the zoning is on the property.
But tonight, the commission is limited to the consideration of the multifamily request
on the 11.8-acre tract.
Thank you.
Okay.
So is there anyone else wishing to speak who has not spoken?
Okay.
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and open the floor for discussion.
Commissioner Pruitt?
Sorry, Chair.
Just a point of clarification.
Sure.
I'm not certain whether this applies to our body or just council, but I believe some time
ago there was an amendment that allowed the applicant to have a rebuttal time and then
people in the public hearing who did speak at first be able to have a last word if that
rebuttal changes anything they would like to say.
But so I guess it's a question to staff of does that apply to us or do we not use those
rules of procedure?
I'm going to ask for Haley's assistance.
We were just looking at this on another project.
Yes, it's my understanding as long as the board has not adopted different rules, they
follow the council rules of procedure which does allow a two-minute rebuttal for anyone
who's spoken.
Okay.
Then I guess I will invite the applicant up as he did want to say something.
Diane Baker, 2233 Holly Hill Lane, Denton, Texas, 76205.
I first want to say to the people in that area, I kind of have my heart broken.
Bev, myself, Mr. Woodson, we all kind of grew up where you are.
People not paying attention to us, taking advantage of us, blah, blah, blah.
That's what I meant by that.
Ms. Baker, you could stay with the microphone otherwise we're not going to be able to hear.
Okay.
I'm not being your friend right now.
I can tell.
I'm sorry, I'm new to this.
We studied the district that we were putting this in and we knew that we had too much in
that district and that we were overloading the district.
We spent a lot of time on it.
On the other side, we were caught between that and trying to figure out the housing
issue.
We felt like that this project could be done a little bit quicker, could help our city
and that's why we put that in there, in that area, because normally we try to divide it
up and we have many projects going on right now, but I want you to know that we considered
much information about putting this in one area, approving it.
They presented it, we approved it after much talk about that.
It wasn't an easy decision, that's all I want to say.
Here we are with needs for housing and over here, I feel like that we're hurting a different
group and I'm really sorry for that.
I really am.
Thank you.
Mr. Woodson, yes, I will invite you up.
Thanks coach for that.
Look, I think the part where I want to get clear is that I know that there's a talk about
the June 27th meeting for the neighborhood.
We will be there for sure and you're right, with humility, we probably should have reached
out early on and had that meeting and that's coming from someone that grew up in the Henson
Project on west side of Phoenix, Arizona and a mother who raised four kids by herself.
What I appreciate today is hearing from the neighborhood in the sense of thinking about
how my mother was a servant in the neighborhood and was part of the church and part of the
community and how she probably would have fought too, seriously would have fought in
her own way.
But I will say this, there's times where we need change and there's time where we need
to be motivated by that change and I'm not saying that there needs to be a change in
this neighborhood, but I just want to say the resources that we're going to provide
for this neighborhood are something that are going to force change and if there's one kid
that gets a scholarship, one kid, if there's one kid that makes it with a scholarship and
furthers themselves, that's okay because there's a lot of us right now who are parents or grandparents
or whatnot and we want the best for our children.
That is the reason why we're putting this community up.
Because there's a lot of other benefits here and I'll be just frank about it, but at the
same time, this is a community that, and I mentioned 15 years, this is a 30-year commitment.
This is truly a 30-year commitment and we can't get it done without the community.
We can't get it done.
So as a man that lived in the projects and a mother that served, this is what we want
to provide.
We want to provide good and it's our job on June 27th to work as a partnership with the
neighborhood to further this mission.
So again, 30 years of affordability, we will be there.
We understand that there's traffic issues.
I don't know how we deal with the traffic issues, I think that's what this group is
here for, but I know what we can do within that community and how we can force change.
So I wanted to say that and leave that there.
June 27th we will be with the community.
Thanks again.
Thank you, Mr. Woodson.
Okay, so I'm going to get back to our floor of discussion.
I guess I don't see anyone to speak yet, so I'm going to go ahead and say a few words.
First of all, thank you.
That is what public hearings are for.
That's what they're all about.
A lot was said and a lot was said seemingly about the whole area and a lot was said about
things that we hear often when we are presented with the decisions that come before us.
Grocery stores.
Grocery stores are a problem all over.
My closest grocery store from where I live in Denton is two and a half miles at least.
The two that were on the corner are gone.
We heard this on a project that was at the preserve in front of us and they said just
bring us a grocery store, bring us a grocery store.
Unfortunately, we can't do that.
The city can't do that.
It's up to the land owner, the developer to come before us with their project.
So we can't force them to do a grocery store.
But you know what's really great is when the community comes together and speaks about
what they need and the more we do that and the more we come together and speak about
that, the more they'll hear what is needed and we can hope that they'll come before us
and get us that grocery store again and get that neighborhood again.
School boundaries.
I hear that all the time and I happen to be in residential real estate and have been selling
homes all around Denton for the last 20 years and what I always tell clients is school boundaries
are always moving because the city grows and then the school boundaries are forced to move.
So when yes, unfortunately a child has gone to this school and then the next year things
get worked out because new developments have come in or whatever and schools can't accommodate
that so the school boundaries move.
So yeah, that will always be a thing, especially in our city that is growing so much.
And our school district is just forced and tasked with that and it's not meant to make
life difficult, it's just meant to balance out the schools and what they can accommodate.
So while it feels like it was something that was done bad to us, it is just something that
is with a developing city and a school district doing the best they can to accommodate our
kids' needs.
So with that being said, a lot of things were brought up about Southeast Denton as a whole.
Hopefully you know and if you don't, certainly we as a city can come out and share this with
you, but a small area plan is being discussed for your area.
What that means is it's going to be a plan that is going to be a collective plan that
takes neighborhood input and all the stakeholders involved and creates a plan of what a small
area of the city should be.
Southeast Denton is the number one slot for a small area plan discussion that is being
started.
That is when a lot of the collective-minded ideas of what you all have talked about, that's
where that discussion belongs.
When we circle back to the discussion that's before us tonight, we're talking about an
11-point-acre tract of land that is being offered to give us in this city a needed housing
choice, which is an affordable housing project, which when you look at the presentation and
you hear what they have done and you've seen the site plan, seems like a great project
and a great need for this piece of land.
Where it's located, I don't know what a better use would be that falls into the SC category
that would serve the need of the community and possibly send this undeveloped land in
the right direction of other needed housing in the area.
So with that, I'm going to stop talking because I'm going to give it to another commissioner
to have the floor.
Commissioner Anderson.
Thank you, Chair.
I'm not going to be very long-winded.
Can't hear you.
Is this better?
Yep.
Okay.
I'm not going to be very long-winded.
I just want to make a couple of points.
I was born and raised here in Denton myself, raised here 54 years.
I know that what you're going through, and the thing is we can't really change a lot.
Denton's growing and we can't change, we just need to adapt.
When I say that, I'm talking about pricing is going, everything's gone up.
Fuel, groceries, land especially.
You can build more cars, but you can't build more land.
So land's a premium right now.
And there's not a developer out there right now, I'm going to tell you this honestly,
that will spend that much money on an 11-acre track of land and it's going to build houses
that they can only sell for $50,000, $60,000.
There's not a profit there for them.
There's not a builder out there that would do this.
They would lose their business.
So like Jared just said, for that 11-acre land track, this is going to be a good thing.
I know y'all say the grocery store and about 285 cars about traffic, well if you build
a grocery store on a corner, you're going to have over 200-something people going to
the grocery store that day as well.
But I do agree with you that there needs to be a red light at Morris.
I work for the county.
I drive up and down Morris daily and you cannot turn left off of Morris onto Woodrow.
It's hard to go north on Woodrow off of Morris.
So that's something that the city would need to look at is putting a red light there.
But yes, y'all do need a grocery store closer, but like the chair said, that's a developer's
issue.
That's not the city's thing.
So you might not be on board right now with this project, but I think once it's developed,
you're going to see it's a nice project.
They're going to give some kids that wouldn't have the opportunity to have a $25,000 scholarship.
There's not another development in town that's ever come up to us in front of here and said
they're going to give out a scholarship for kids in the neighborhood.
So anyways, that's all I have to say, but I think after this is done, you're probably
going to appreciate it.
Commissioner McDade.
Thank you, chair.
Yeah, I would just like to thank the community for coming out and just to let you know that
this is how things get done.
I don't know the outcome of this, but I know in the past, you've been told there's no reason
to come up town to get anything done and you were told that by people who represented you
in the district.
And I'm here to let you know that that's not true.
I don't know if it was for political gain or financial gain, but this is how you come
up town when you have a problem, it's something coming into your neighborhood that you don't
like.
This is where you come to work your plan.
And I just want to thank you for coming out.
I don't know how it's going to turn out, but I want to thank each and every one of you for
coming out, not everyone spoke, but just your presence was appreciated.
Thank you.
And if I could just piggyback on that comment, Commissioner McDade, you are welcome at every
planning and zoning commission meeting, every city council meeting about anything, whether
it's a public hearing or not.
These are public meetings and they are meant for the city as a collective and that's how
you stay involved and you stay what's in the know, and it doesn't even have to just be
in your backyard.
The agenda is always there, you can make public comments on any public hearing item anywhere
in our city, and that's how we grow the city the right way, is when we all work together.
The city can't just do it, we don't have enough staff to do all that.
We volunteers up here, I mean, we do the best that we can and analyze things and all that,
but your voice, we need to understand what's happening and it works both ways.
You got an input, we've got an output, and together we make the best decisions we possibly
can for this city.
Commissioner Perut.
Thank you, Chair.
I just have a couple of questions for staff.
First one I guess is a traffic related one, and I'll start by saying I don't believe the
trip generation numbers further than I can throw them, so I don't want to get into technical
numbers because I'll just lose my patience.
But in general, is there a...
I think Commissioner Anderson earlier mentioned that a retail type development would see more
traffic than an apartment typically.
Is that the right way to frame this and about how big is the difference, just roughly?
Yeah.
Pretendation of transportation planning.
I don't have the numbers top of my head, but definitely retail does generate a lot more
traffic, especially during the peak hours, just given that the size of the store and
the number of people that it does attract.
And it's based on surveys of similar uses throughout the nation.
It's not just one single store.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you.
And then just a couple for planning staff.
I think especially grocery stores have been mentioned a lot and you don't have that power.
Everybody really wants a grocery store that they can walk to 100 feet away from them,
doesn't draw any traffic from other shoppers, and has the lowest prices in town.
I'm sold, right?
In general though, since we can't paint that magic brush, do an increased number of residents
with more homes being built make it more or less likely that the free market, private
market will come in to invest in a grocery store in the future, given if there's available
land.
Do you want me to take that or do you want me to...
That's a little question.
I might look to Tina to answer that question.
So yes, if we have additional buying power within the trade area that a business is drawing
from, then that is going to help draw that business there.
So for the benefit of the audience, businesses are going to have what they call as a trade
area, a distance of where they will attract customers from, because there becomes a threshold
on how far you're willing to drive someplace presumably to go purchase X, whether that
be groceries or products at Home Depot or other similar type of stores to buy clothing,
whatever the case may be.
But a business has an area that they pull or draw within for their customer base.
And so businesses are looking for the buying power within that trade area.
So one way to help make an area more attractive for businesses is to have additional residents
residing within that area.
That is why many times when you see cities grow, the residential development happens first,
whether that's in the form of single family, some multi-family, maybe there are some duplexes
in there with it, but you always have the housing there first.
You never get the business locating first.
A business is not going to locate in an area that doesn't have the buying power.
They're going to wait for the right population with the buying power to exist before they
locate there.
So the answer is yes to your question, and that's why.
Thank you.
And then just one more question, kind of wrapping schools with trails, with future, but not
talking about development to the east of here.
I believe in our trails plan, there is a trail slated along Pecan Creek that actually crosses
underneath Woodrow.
Is that correct?
You are correct, sir.
Okay.
I have a slide, let me see if I can ... Let me see if it will ... Ah, there we go.
Yes.
So in our parks master plan, they did include areas that they were or anticipated trail
sections within the city.
One of the big pushes is to complete our trail network.
As part of that is a proposed, of course it would take surrounding development and a lot
of additional planning to get there, but ideally they would like to see a trail along Dutchess,
between Dutchess and Shady Oaks within that flood plain area.
They are also working on a trail on the west side of town, or I'm sorry, on the west side
of Woodrow, connecting those existing parks in an off street trail manner.
Sure.
Yeah, I guess the reason that I asked that and why I alluded to is connected to the school.
I don't know what the procedure between city staff and DISD looks like when they start
shuffling boundaries when they have a school that's overcrowding, but I would hope that
one of those criteria that they look at is to maximize the number of students who can
reasonably walk to that school or ride their bike to that school.
Because the last thing any neighborhood wants is a new line of 90 cars lining up every morning
at 7.15 and every morning at 3.15.
That doesn't help anybody.
It doesn't help the people who are walking, your closer neighbors who want to get to the
school.
I know the answer is we don't know yet.
I just want everybody to understand that there is a plan and yeah, so thank you for that.
Just a couple final thoughts.
It's obvious to me that the history in this area of disinvestment, quite honestly, has
made these conversations difficult.
I will just say our job here on the board as well as city staff's job who they're working
diligently to do is to prove that that trust is now warranted.
That means things like lining up these long-term plans to coincide with development that's
coming in so that the resulting traffic doesn't materialize like it would otherwise.
That includes us considering the alternatives that could happen here by right.
It's an SC zoning district.
Do we really want to see another class B strip mall with bail bonds places here?
How does that help anybody?
And lastly, I'll just say I understand the challenge of turning left onto multilane roads.
I also understand traffic lights are not a perfect solution because then everybody complains
that there's so many traffic lights on this road.
I'm not a traffic engineer.
With that said, those types of comments are why I prefer multiple smaller roads connected
to the surrounding area so that you're not turning across four or six lanes of traffic
to get from point A to point B.
I think this is a good project, right?
Everything is going to have trade-offs, but when I look at what happens if this doesn't
go forward, I see housing prices go up.
I see either nothing goes there or something that people like even less.
And I see an opportunity here, honestly, to establish a new neighborhood that could be
more mixed income, could draw some neighborhood services, and could sort of be an example
to what we want future neighborhoods in Denton to become.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Commissioner Villarreal.
Yeah.
Thank you.
We have an affordable housing crisis in this country, and we absolutely require the expansion
in this regard here in the city of Denton, and I also want to thank the applicant for
agreeing to meet with Sedna in the coming days.
However, it's apparent over the past two months that the Southeast Denton neighborhood has
been ignored during the process.
Southeast Denton is a majority black and Latino community that has been neglected, left behind,
walked over, and marginalized for the over 100 years it has existed as a neighborhood,
and this has to end.
This project is going to be a good addition to our city, but I cannot sit here and ignore
the countless voices from Southeast Denton.
All Dentonites seem to be treated with dignity and respect whether they live in Southridge,
Ranch Estates, or Southeast Denton.
And if we want to make an effort to reflect other neighborhoods and their concerns when
we vote, then we must do the same for the working folks here in this diverse neighborhood.
I implore the applicant to take their concerns and questions of Southeast Denton to heart,
and I hope you have the opportunity to meet with this community prior to the next council
meeting.
With the feedback I received from Southeast Denton, I will vote with their voice in mind,
and I will once again vote no to this request.
Commissioner Pruitt, you're still on the board.
Did you?
Okay.
All right.
Thank you.
Anyone else wishing to speak this year?
Okay.
Commissioner Cole.
Thank you, Chair.
I really appreciate you all coming out.
You know, this is, like the Chair said, this is about, this isn't about a whole area.
This is about 11 acres, 11.891 acres of land, and what is the best use of that acreage?
And something is going to go there, and I don't see another use outside of this.
And you know, we all, you know, we all hear, you know, people want to talk to you when
they know you're on P&Z, you know, when you're around town, and the first thing they always
say is fix the roads, you know, we know that.
But the second thing they always say is quit building apartments, okay?
If we didn't build apartments, more apartments, apartment rent would be, would just go up
and be more unaffordable.
It would be higher than a cat's back.
And the problem is we got so many people coming to this area, we are at critical state levels
of all housing, every category of housing, we don't adequately have.
And this is a problem of rampant 20-year growth.
And you know, as long as people come here like fire ants, we have to prepare neighborhoods.
We got to prepare everything.
And you know, I know I originally, I originally voted no on this, but it comes, to me it comes
down to this 11.891 acres of land and the best use of this property, and single family
homes aren't going to be on this property.
This is a good development in my mind.
And so I plan on supporting this development.
>> Commissioner McDade.
>> Thank you, Chair.
In all reality, I don't think it's really the 11 acres that concerns the neighborhood.
I think they're more concerned is most of the neighborhood, this is the first time they've
heard about this project.
The applicant said they spoke to the mayor and they spoke to the D-1 rep.
I've gone to every set in the meeting.
This has not come up one time.
I think this is what the issue is with the things that come into District 1 is you have
the representation, but they sit on their hands and they do absolutely nothing.
And now they have, you know, a couple of days, now they're going to meet with Sedna when
the president just said no one called her at all.
She didn't know if it was a separate meeting or they were going to be at the Sedna meeting.
I think this is where the neighborhood, I mean, I don't know how long this project has
been in the works, but had they come two or three months ago when they first started or
when they spoke to the mayor or to the D-1 rep and got with the neighborhood, you might
have had a better, a different outlook.
But to wait until the last minute, and I've talked about it all the time, I mean, to me
that's disrespectful, not only on the mayor's part, but on the District 1 rep's part.
You're there to represent that district and you say nothing.
That old saying is closed mouths don't get fed and we have representatives in that neighborhood
who are keeping their mouths closed, whether that's for a political gain or financial gain.
And that's what I'm saying right now, that has to stop.
They deserve respect.
They shouldn't have to beg for it, but it seems like they have to because no one is
coming to them and speaking on their behalf about projects that are coming into the neighborhood.
Thank you.
Senator Cole, you're still on the board, but are you needing to speak anymore?
No?
Okay.
And so I'll just circle back just with a couple of comments there.
So to circle back with what is tasked before us today, which is the request for this specific
use permit on this tract of land.
I cannot speak to the relationship of the elected officials and this body.
We have to make the best decision that we can for this particular applicant's request.
They have done and notified who they need to do.
We as a city legally have done that.
They have reached out with neighborhood meetings.
It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be your neighborhood meeting.
If you've had a neighborhood meeting, you can attend any meeting that is held in the
public sense.
So with that being said, I will open the floor for further discussion or a motion.
Commissioner Pruitt.
Thank you, Chair.
You know, I really appreciate everybody coming out today, and I would echo all the things
said about future planning opportunities.
I know it's a pain, right?
I know you got kids.
You got life.
You got, you know, you were up late last night doing XYZ because your aunt's kids needed
somebody to watch them, et cetera.
It's hard, right?
But this is what it takes, right?
So I would encourage you to stay engaged.
I'm going to go ahead and move approval, or sorry, move that we recommend approval of
this SUP just with a strong recommendation for staff to look at, you know, ways, whether
that's a trail, you know, just pouring a path underneath the bridge.
We've already got, you know, desire paths on the west side.
If we can get people under that bridge safely, they will make it to school, I promise you.
Just a recommendation or a request that staff would look at either that or other solutions
to stave off a school lineup of 100 cars once this opens would be my request.
Commissioner Cole.
Second.
Okay.
So we've got a first and a second for approval of this specific use permit.
Is there any discussion?
So I'll just say final word, thank you again for sharing your thoughts.
However, this turns out we are a recommending body to City Council.
This will go to City Council for a final vote.
Your voice is important there, too.
Your voice is always important.
And it is hard to stay involved.
It's hard to fit that into our busy lives, but it really is what takes to run the city
for all of us.
Unfortunately, we can't fix with the request that's before us a lot of the problems that
you brought forth.
And that does not invalidate those problems and those concerns.
They are heard, but again, what we're tasked with is not going to fix those problems.
But we should still keep talking about those problems and figuring out how we can fix them.
Right now, we've got to vote for this applicant's request for this specific use permit.
And that's what we're going to do right now.
And then whatever that decision is, that will move to City Council for a final decision.
So with that, yes, Tina.
If I can make one request before the commission votes.
So you've heard from the commission numerous times about how they appreciate the community
coming and addressing them this evening.
There's been comments made regarding the area plan work that we are going to be initiating
and in starting within the Southeast Denton neighborhood.
One of our challenges is finding folks like yourself who are engaged in your neighborhood
and we need your contact information.
We would like for you to be part of this area plan work that we will be doing because it
helps us with setting a path for the future based upon your feedback and what you are
interested in having for your community.
So I would welcome the opportunity to receive your contact information.
You know, I know I have names and addresses on these cards, but really what I would love
to get -- what I would love to have my team from you is if there are phone numbers or
email addresses that we can follow up with you, regardless of what happens on this project.
But so that we can get your contact information and be able to invite you for when we start
working on this area plan.
This area plan allows us to be able to study the neighborhood further and be able to identify
what areas of change you want to have occur, what areas you want to have protected occur.
But the gentleman who just walked out the door, that's Scott McDonald.
He is our Director of Development Services.
I would welcome -- if you could please share your contact information with him or anybody
else on our planning team, we would love to have your information.
This project will start later this year, but one of the necessary components of that project
is to be able to have resident input, and this project is going to take some time.
So I will ask you to be engaged throughout that entire project.
But I just want to put that plug in because it's a very important project for your neighborhoods,
and regardless of the outcome that takes place with this zoning case -- or excuse me, with
this specific use permit request.
So thank you for that opportunity.
>> Thank you, and right before we vote, when is this going to council?
So it will go to council on this next Tuesday, the 28th of June.
Okay.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
With that, let's go ahead -- oh.
Let's go ahead and vote on the board.
Okay.
That motion carries for two.
Move that on to council on Tuesday.
Why don't we take a quick break, and we'll let chambers clear for a moment.
It's 820.
We will adjourn for five minutes.
Thank you.
I will call us back to order at 825, and we will get back to finalizing the agenda for
tonight.
We are on 5B, which we are taking no action on because the applicant has requested to
postpone the item to a future planning and zoning meeting, and that will be renoticed
at an upcoming meeting.
Moving us to our public hearing 5C, DCA 220002, I'll invite Haley up for presentation and
open the public hearing.
>> Good evening.
All right.
Good evening, Haley Zagorski, assistant planning director.
The item before you this evening is a Denton development code amendment for amendments
to subchapter two, which are the procedures within the code.
So, just a quick recap.
We did discuss this at your work session, but just so it's on the record for this evening.
These code amendments are coming forward this evening in response to our comprehensive code
update in 2019, after which we had several state law changes, some procedures that we
noticed were either inconsistent or inadvertently left out of the code, and as we're doing with
a series of code amendments that are going before the code review committee, we're working
our way through those changes that we've identified that we need to the code.
The code amendment process was started soon after the code was adopted and then put on
hold during the oddities that we went through with COVID in 2020, but we did regroup last
year, and as I believe as recently as November of 2021, this particular set of code amendments
was brought before our code review committee to confirm that they were still on board with
what had previously been presented, and they did recommend that this move forward to P&Z
and council for formal consideration.
So as we did in work session, I'll just run through the highlights of what the code amendments
encompass because it is a very lengthy document.
I think it's over 100 pages with subchapter two that's redlined in the backup, so I'm
happy to pull that up if we need to look at anything in detail, but just some of the highlights.
We are making a variety of updates to the summary table at the beginning of subchapter
two that outlines all of our procedures and generally who reviews and approves those documents.
So we're making sure every application type that you could apply for in the city of Denton
in terms of projects is now listed in that table because several were left out that are
very common procedures like civil engineering plans and traffic impact analysis.
So all of those will be added back into the table.
We are working through a variety of other things.
Some of the bigger items would be the operational procedures.
So the P&Z and Zoning Board of Adjustment, for example, had very specific procedures
in our 2002 code.
Those were left out of this code with the intent that the code of ordinances would take
some of those in, but since that has not occurred and we've determined that it is a better,
more logical place for those to be within the Denton Development Code, we're adding
those back in.
Some of those specifically with ZBA, you'll see some changes to their procedures in response
to recent state law updates.
Throughout the subchapter, we're making changes, little things like changing one of the criteria
manuals to be an administrative development handbook so that that is a more regularly
updated document, but it's also consistently referenced in the code and on our website.
The same thing with the city's fee schedule.
We're making project names aligned so that those documents read consistently.
We are updating the subdivision procedures.
You'll notice if you look through there, a lot of changes to platting procedures to reflect
the Shot Clock legislation, as well as some changes to notification requirements for replats
that changed in state law.
Similarly, with subdivision variances, that's an important procedure that we're adding back
into the code.
The variance you saw this evening, we were saved by the fact that our transportation
criteria manual specifically says driveway variances go to P and Z.
Otherwise, we're missing a procedure for that, so we actually have some replats right now
that are on hold pending us adding this procedure back in so that they can seek variances for
relief from some of our subdivision requirements.
Some of the other things that you'll find in this document are just expanding procedures
for annexation.
For example, if you look in the code right now, there are two sentences and it says it
follows state law, and that's all you get from it.
We're actually adding back in the detailed procedure so that people have one place to
go to find out what that application is going to look like and what that timeline would
be.
Then, as I mentioned several times, just making sure we have that consistency with state law
and making it a more comprehensive document where you really can find all of our processes
in one place.
With that, I will close the presentation, but I'm happy to pull that document up if we need
to look at anything in particular, or if you have questions, I'm happy to try to answer
those this evening.
I do not see that.
The backup was very-
It's a riveting topic, I know.
Well, no, but you did a fabulous job in presenting.
Whoever put the backup material together-
That was all wrong.
We have to give you the full credit for managing this process.
It was very well organized and easy to see.
Being on the DCRC, I remember all of this discussion.
Yes.
Thank you all.
Thank you, Haley.
Okay.
Is there discussion amongst the board?
Chair can entertain a motion or further discussion.
Commissioner Villarreal.
I move to approve the recommendation to city council.
It is a public hearing.
Hang on there.
I forgot because there's no one in front of me, and I'm so sorry and there's no one on
the phone.
It is a public hearing.
I do not have any cards in front of me.
I do not have anyone on the phones, and I don't have any people in front of me in City
Hall.
So I'm going to close the public hearing, and now Commissioner Villarreal.
I move to approve the recommendation to city council.
Commissioner Pruitt.
I will second, and just thank staff for all of this work.
I'm especially pleased to see that as we look through these revisions, we don't just gradually
add more and more complexity, but we look at opportunities to simplify and clarify so
that we don't create spaghetti.
So thank you for that.
And I will echo all of that.
It's nice to be able to do these amendments when we see that they're needed and they're
vetted in a great way through the committee and great work by staff, for sure.
Let's call for a vote on the board, please.
That motion carries 6-0.
That will take us to our Planning and Zoning Commission matrix, and I will give the floor
to Tina.
Thank you, Chairman Dulles.
So nothing to report from city council in terms of development action.
As it relates to the matrices, I made a couple of tweaks on this.
We had some June references; unfortunately, we were not able to get the items accomplished
this month.
So you'll see information regarding history and attentive strip annexations, the fiscal
analysis tool, and I believe I tweaked the item that's requested work session discussion
about the impacts to city plans and growth by a potential House bill related to disannexation
processes.
So I changed those from June to summer, so we'll do our best to get those all addressed
this summer for the commission.
But otherwise, there was nothing additional added to the matrix.
Okay.
Thank you.
Great.
Is there anything to add to the matrix from the commission tonight?
Concluding items, Commissioner Pruitt.
Thank you, Chair.
This may be just more of a general question to staff.
I think during the presentation earlier, it was mentioned the 200- and 500-foot boundaries,
and it was mentioned that the 500-foot courtesy postcards go to the owners and residents.
Was that the actual what happens as far as it gets mailed to residents, even who are
renters, or does it only get mailed to owners?
I'm going to ask Haley for assistance, so I don't mess this up in case I misspoke earlier.
I think it's the address on the text.
Yes.
So the 500-foot postcard is actually sent to all of the utility addresses that we have
within 500 feet.
So it goes to renters at apartments, or anyone that has a utility with the City of Denton
would get that postcard.
Okay.
Thank you.
And then- And I guess, and to that point, and the reason
why we send it to folks that have the utility address is because we recognize that there
may be some folks who reside within the place of residence, but they may not be the owner.
And so, because state law requires us to notify property owners within 200 feet based upon
the latest adopted tax rules.
Okay.
Thank you.
That's great.
And if I'm just not remembering a previous report, please slap my hand afterwards.
But I recall we had a work session discussion before about the voluntary notification procedure
and that sort of thing, and there was a work session for council scheduled for that.
Has that work session taken place, and was there any direction that came out of that?
So that was the computer system, or folks being able to opt in.
So we did receive direction from council.
I believe we were starting with items that PNZ and council would have deliberation on,
like the public hearing items, and then eventually the goal from council was to be able to expand
that notification.
And I know, gosh, Charlie had been working on that with Cody.
I'd have to follow up with you to, unless you know any additional updates, but I haven't
seen anything on that lately.
No, I believe they're still working through the technical process of getting that rolled
out, but we can certainly come follow up with a more up-to-date notification.
Sounds great.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you.
Any other concluding items?
All right.
Thank you all for your time, and your input, and your thoughts, and hard work, everybody.
I will adjourn us at 8.35 PM.