WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.080 We haven't started yet, I'm just going to wait. 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:11.680 Okay, well taking note of a quorum, we will open the agenda of the Historic Landmark Commission, 00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:15.200 our regularly scheduled May meeting. 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:22.480 You guys will stand with me and we'll recite the U.S. Pledge and the Texas Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:28.760 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:38.600 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:49.960 Honored by the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:53.560 Thank you. 00:00:53.560 --> 00:01:01.640 First up, as an item for consideration, is the approval of the April 11th, 2022 minutes. 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:10.680 If they've all been circulated, we have any corrections or suggestions or comments? 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:15.880 I didn't kind of look at it in a real close, so I need a motion. 00:01:15.880 --> 00:01:17.880 We have a motion to approve and a second. 00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:20.200 All those in favor say aye. 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:26.280 Raise your hand, that's everybody, it's unanimous. 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:31.400 Second item on the agenda is the election of a chair and vice chair for the Historic 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:34.840 Landmark Commission. 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:43.800 Now then, I believe what we normally do is we ask for volunteers as opposed to nominations, 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:50.440 isn't that correct, and as you guys know, I've done this for a while, two years. 00:01:50.440 --> 00:01:52.440 And you've done it so well. 00:01:52.440 --> 00:01:54.440 No, no, no. 00:01:54.440 --> 00:01:56.440 We just love it. 00:01:56.440 --> 00:01:58.440 I'm not nominating you, right? 00:01:58.440 --> 00:02:00.440 I don't think it's... 00:02:00.440 --> 00:02:02.440 Okay, but let's get real about one thing. 00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:04.440 Can we just open the floor for discussion? 00:02:04.440 --> 00:02:06.440 That's okay. 00:02:06.440 --> 00:02:10.440 Okay, so I will be... 00:02:10.440 --> 00:02:13.240 I'm finishing my sixth year on this committee. 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:17.080 I've been extended for one more year until August. 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:21.880 I probably won't be able to stay August of 2023, a year from this August. 00:02:21.880 --> 00:02:28.280 Okay, now I probably will be moving out of the city of Denton in about a year, so I won't 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.280 make it to August of 2023. 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:31.800 Oh, that's fine. 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:33.800 We'll find somebody to finish out. 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:38.840 Okay, but if you recall, who's the lady that was the chair right before me? 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:43.480 Yeah, I know you're talking about Elizabeth. 00:02:43.480 --> 00:02:45.480 No, no, no, no. 00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:49.480 She was Perky, the teacher, history teacher. 00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:56.760 So anyway, the only thing I should suggest is in advance, and because Mary, you've chaired 00:02:56.760 --> 00:03:05.000 probably five or six of these as well, that we look at getting someone ahead of, so that 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:11.640 you have some months because the easiest thing as a chair is to have somebody that is watching 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:20.120 and throwing softballs, motions, and this to move the meetings along, and so anyway. 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.880 Do we have anybody with... 00:03:23.880 --> 00:03:25.960 So having said all that, if you guys... 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.720 I'm nominating, and I know you don't take nominators. 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:35.240 Yeah, but think about the fact that, because we've got a year plus I'm going to be around, 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:38.200 how long, when do you want someone else to do this? 00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:40.200 Because it's not my committee. 00:03:40.200 --> 00:03:42.200 Right, yes, for now it is. 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:49.240 Okay, I will agree, assuming we have votes. 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.200 All those in favor, and I don't think I can vote. 00:03:52.200 --> 00:03:54.200 Raise your hand. 00:03:54.200 --> 00:03:56.200 Wow, that's... 00:03:56.200 --> 00:04:07.480 Okay, so then I will do it with the caveat that at some point prior to my departure, 00:04:07.480 --> 00:04:11.720 six months or something, I will resign, and we'll have another election. 00:04:11.720 --> 00:04:13.080 That's awesome. 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:14.120 Everybody okay with that? 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:14.840 Yes. 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.920 Now we need a vice chair, which Mary has been doing, and... 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:23.480 Eventually I will time off, so you know, I am not in the far vote behind you, Roy. 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:26.840 But I think we get off the same day. 00:04:26.840 --> 00:04:27.880 Yeah, exactly. 00:04:27.880 --> 00:04:32.440 So I mean, you know, it's, you know, if anybody would like to volunteer... 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:34.760 If I want to volunteer to serve as the vice chair. 00:04:34.760 --> 00:04:35.260 Yeah. 00:04:35.260 --> 00:04:37.960 Wow, we're just not... 00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:41.640 Okay, we can do it like the Army, and I can get a half vote in favor. 00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.960 Yeah. 00:04:41.960 --> 00:04:45.160 No, but I'm fine, because it's working really well right now. 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.040 I mean, I don't mind states of the duration, I just want... 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.720 All those in favor, raise your hand. 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.360 Okay, so there you go, we had an election. 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:54.860 Okay. 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:58.600 Now, have we violated any civic statutes along the way? 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.720 It's my fellow's job to tell you. 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.520 Okay, are we? 00:05:04.520 --> 00:05:05.640 Yes, I better be careful. 00:05:05.640 --> 00:05:08.360 Okay, so the minutes are signed. 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:09.500 Thank you. 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:11.480 I didn't use my name. 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:19.800 You know, I never signed my name, and she never catches it. 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.240 She thought me it made me sign, I'm just telling you, when you weren't here. 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:26.600 Okay, so the next... 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:29.960 All right, so that closes the public part of our meeting. 00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:35.640 Next, we open the work session part, and I will turn... 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:37.960 It's HLC 22057. 00:05:37.960 --> 00:05:41.160 Receive a report and hold discussion regarding 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:46.120 enforcement of the debt development code in relation to the HLC's powers and duties. 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:50.760 And for that, and how about for the rest of the agenda, 00:05:50.760 --> 00:05:52.680 I'll turn it over to Ms. Cameron. 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.320 Oh, well, thank you, Chair. 00:05:55.320 --> 00:05:59.320 So tonight, me and Stephanie... 00:05:59.320 --> 00:06:00.360 Sorry, Stephanie. 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:01.080 What's it for you? 00:06:01.080 --> 00:06:01.880 Oh, Barry. 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:02.380 Barry. 00:06:02.380 --> 00:06:06.200 I came in here with an email. 00:06:06.200 --> 00:06:07.080 I'm sorry, I was just... 00:06:07.080 --> 00:06:08.520 Exactly, it's a little different. 00:06:08.520 --> 00:06:15.480 Join the club, the alternative is not possible. 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:16.760 Well, they found somebody else to be on here. 00:06:16.760 --> 00:06:19.160 I hear they're looking at your stuff. 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.040 We will be discussing the debt and development code 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.840 and kind of the actions that you all can take as HLC 00:06:26.840 --> 00:06:30.920 if historic property owners kind of violate the different 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.040 procedures that we're supposed to be taking within that development code. 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:36.280 So Stephanie, if you want to start off. 00:06:36.280 --> 00:06:37.960 Would you like me to start off? 00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:38.520 I'm fine. 00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:41.320 Mine's very brief regarding the code enforcement. 00:06:41.320 --> 00:06:44.760 You can start, and then I'll explain municipal prosecution, 00:06:44.760 --> 00:06:47.240 how we'd file a case, who would file a case, and all of this. 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.640 So we don't have a presentation, it's more just a discussion. 00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:52.600 Oh, that's kind of cool. 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:53.160 That's even better. 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:53.720 Yes, yes. 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.760 So I'm going to read off my page, so I make sure I get everything out there. 00:06:58.760 --> 00:07:04.200 So building safety can issue a stop work order and work without permit fee 00:07:04.200 --> 00:07:06.360 is added to a contractor's responsibility. 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.960 So for residential, usually the first time is waived. 00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:14.680 The first offense for commercial and second offense for residential is $250 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.880 work without permit fee assessed. 00:07:18.760 --> 00:07:21.560 After that, if more work is done without permits, 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.360 the fee is three times the permit fee plus $500. 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:31.560 It will change based off of what the work is being done. 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:39.400 Okay, and so is that the eighth COA as a permit considered a permanent clause? 00:07:39.400 --> 00:07:44.600 So this is regarding, no, so this is a COA is not considered. 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:49.480 So this is after it leaves here and or whatever they do and they don't get a permit from PNG. 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:54.200 For if they don't get a building permit in general, so any building permit. 00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:57.240 So if they don't get a fence permit and they were required to get a fence permit 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:02.280 and it was an historic district, then those violations would be held against them. 00:08:02.280 --> 00:08:07.320 Say they're changing windows, they didn't get a window permit, 00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:10.520 then that would be flagged for, okay, well, they also didn't get a COA. 00:08:10.520 --> 00:08:13.160 So then that would bring them back through that process. 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.920 I guess I'm still kind of confused on the order with which they should do it. 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.000 They should come to us first and then they get their permit. 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:19.720 Correct, yes. 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:24.120 But if they get the, what if they go to planning and they will somehow get a permit, I mean. 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:29.800 So if they were getting a permit, it would be flagged in our community services. 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:35.400 So we've just went through, back in January, after we've had some issues in the past, 00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:40.040 went through our community development software, came back with a bunch of, 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.600 when you get into your community development system, it alerts you, 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.120 saying there's restrictions on this property. 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:51.240 So that alerts right when someone puts that property address in. 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.640 So that's where this works, okay. 00:08:53.640 --> 00:08:54.360 Yes, correct. 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.920 So this is basically, if you're at the end of the phase, 00:08:56.920 --> 00:09:00.200 they haven't gotten the building permit, they haven't gotten the COA, 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:02.440 they've already just started doing work, 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.040 then this is where these violations and these charges would be coming in. 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:11.320 Are these charges different in the historic district than in the rest of the city? 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:12.040 No, they're not. 00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:13.960 Oh, yeah, just curious. 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:23.800 Okay, so you guys know, a neighbor tells us their windows have been replaced at 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:29.000 1313 West Oak Street, fake address. 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:29.480 Right. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:31.960 And then they go out there and all the windows are gone, 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.240 they're all now something, not code windows. 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:41.720 So the process is you guys investigate that drive out there and tell them 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:44.200 they have to get something after the fact. 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.800 You might walk us through, you've now gotten a call, 00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:50.120 the windows have been in more than two months. 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.560 And the neighbor calls and says, hey, they didn't do this right. 00:09:53.560 --> 00:10:01.160 Walk us through the process from there to they get a fine, they go to court. 00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:02.520 What happens? 00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:07.880 So something that's done after the fact, they will be fine from our perspective. 00:10:07.880 --> 00:10:12.360 They can get a building permit fee, I believe. 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.120 But from the perspective, it's already done. 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.960 So for instance, we had that last project that had already been done, 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:19.560 but they did have a building permit. 00:10:19.560 --> 00:10:25.160 So they did not include any fees from us because as part of our procedures 00:10:25.160 --> 00:10:31.720 or powers and duties within the DDC, HLC does not have that jurisdiction to charge anyone. 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.720 That all has to go through the building department. 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.480 So if it's already been in place for two months, 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:40.920 from my understanding, I don't think we can do anything. 00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:43.320 From a code enforcement. 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:43.800 Correct. 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:47.080 So there's two separate processes where we're talking. 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:52.120 Stephanie is going to go through the after the fact kind of municipal prosecution piece, 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:56.360 which can be done whenever there is a potential violation 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:59.160 and she'll go through what those sorts of obligations are. 00:10:59.160 --> 00:11:02.200 Code enforcement's work is kind of prior to that 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:06.600 when they're making sure people are doing their work with a permit correctly. 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.200 And the COA process would come in before the permit was issued. 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:13.400 So there's a step in our permit issuing software 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:17.480 that says this flags Cameron, this is historic property, 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:23.640 and should have a COA prior to getting a permit for whatever the work is. 00:11:23.640 --> 00:11:27.480 But in this instance, the phone rings, it's in, it's done. 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:29.240 They're finished, the contact record's gone. 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.320 What do you guys do about that? 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:32.600 Do you just, oh well. 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:33.160 Yeah, overnight. 00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:35.880 Say they worked on a weekend, there's no code enforcement out, 00:11:35.880 --> 00:11:37.560 and they pulled all the windows, slapped the new ones, 00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:38.760 and there's just a new front door. 00:11:38.760 --> 00:11:39.560 Now what do you do? 00:11:39.560 --> 00:11:42.280 They've done it, it's done, the old door is gone. 00:11:42.280 --> 00:11:44.840 So I kind of know something about this. 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:47.880 Just, I mean, from, unfortunately, prior to the experience, 00:11:47.880 --> 00:11:49.480 I had somebody call me recently where they had this, 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.440 and planning zoning said retroactive to get a permit. 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.600 And, you know, in that way, and then they'll come out and inspect it and everything. 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:59.320 And that way they can see if it was all done correctly as to, 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:00.520 you know, what was supposed to be done. 00:12:00.520 --> 00:12:02.520 And if not, I'm not sure what happens if it's not, 00:12:02.520 --> 00:12:05.560 but I assume they'll tell them to redo it or do it correctly. 00:12:05.560 --> 00:12:09.400 But it, when you say correctly, 00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:12.920 do you mean just according to the normal building codes? 00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:18.040 Whatever code, or whatever the building inspection people want it to be. 00:12:18.040 --> 00:12:19.160 Not necessarily. 00:12:19.160 --> 00:12:23.160 Well, I assume when something comes in, they're looking to get a permit, 00:12:23.160 --> 00:12:25.160 and you said now there's procedures to flag it. 00:12:25.160 --> 00:12:26.360 Yes, correct. 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:27.880 And they've got to get it from here first. 00:12:27.880 --> 00:12:31.560 And so I would assume even if it's after the fact, 00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.480 they've still got to get our COA. 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.280 Just like they, I mean, before they were trying to get our COA. 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:38.520 Right. So they would still have to come get the COA. 00:12:38.520 --> 00:12:40.040 They would still have to come through HLC. 00:12:40.040 --> 00:12:44.760 And you would still have to make those votes of approval, approval of conditions or deny. 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:47.800 Where likely in that instance, if they've already done it, 00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:49.800 you know, there's been discussion in the past saying, 00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:53.880 oh, okay, well, we're going to deny it just to inform them that this is not okay. 00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:55.080 This is not the process. 00:12:56.040 --> 00:12:59.560 But that is really only the power and duty that HLC has at that point. 00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:02.680 But that would prevent the permit from going through at that point, wouldn't it? 00:13:02.680 --> 00:13:07.160 If the works are already done, the permit, yes, the permit wouldn't be approved, 00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:09.480 but there's no instance where they would make them 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.720 necessarily remove it if it was done correctly. 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:12.760 Right. 00:13:12.760 --> 00:13:16.120 So, I mean, again, it comes back to my central discussion, Cameron, 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:21.560 which is our purpose is kind of diluted by the fact that really, 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:23.560 you know, as a homeowner in the historic district, 00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:25.640 I can go do what I want and say, I don't care. 00:13:25.640 --> 00:13:28.760 Well, that's where, yeah, that's what I'm saying. 00:13:28.760 --> 00:13:34.680 So, let's say a case like that, they didn't get a permit. 00:13:34.680 --> 00:13:39.000 They, actually a question here, they didn't get a permit. 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.640 It didn't, it doesn't comply with the requirements for the historic landmark neighborhood. 00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:48.920 And so you could file a case for the violation. 00:13:48.920 --> 00:13:55.480 And this is where it gets tricky about how much was the door. 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:59.640 So, as a prosecutor, I know I really want the door to comply with what 00:13:59.640 --> 00:14:01.080 the house is supposed to look like. 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:07.240 So, I would ask the judge to assess the maximum fine, which is $500 plus 81, 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:12.760 and say, I'll dismiss this case if you get your door and comply with what it should have been. 00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:19.000 If the door was $2,000, they might say, I'll pay the 581, or I want a jury trial. 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:24.200 If the door was $600, $700, they might comply. 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.200 So, because you can only charge, it's a one-time offense, right? 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.640 So, I can only charge one time. 00:14:31.640 --> 00:14:38.760 So, that's where we're not a civil court for getting restitution. 00:14:38.760 --> 00:14:42.120 But as a prosecutor, I can do an interest of justice dismissal. 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:47.320 And if I can get a repair or compliance, then I'll dismiss it. 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:54.360 So, you look at what is their cost to go back and make it compliant versus the fine. 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:59.320 I think we had some tree cases where they chopped down a bunch of trees, 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.840 business, in violation of the tree ordinance. 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:04.440 And they were like, tell us how much to pay. 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.720 Because it was not worth it to them. 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.440 So, that's where you have to look at what is the change. 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:18.680 I feel like we've only had one prosecution for a historic violation, and it was a front 00:15:18.680 --> 00:15:22.920 porch that was done out of the character of the neighborhood, maybe. 00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:27.400 >> Was that the one on the- >> Years ago, and there might have even 00:15:27.400 --> 00:15:30.520 been an argument about whether it was out of the character of the neighborhood. 00:15:30.520 --> 00:15:31.320 Does that sound right? 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:32.520 >> I'm not sure. 00:15:32.520 --> 00:15:33.800 >> It would have been years ago. 00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:36.840 >> At least in your full while, I didn't hear about that. 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.120 >> Years ago, I didn't hear about that. 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.520 >> Anyhow, so that gives you an idea. 00:15:42.520 --> 00:15:50.600 So, the fine is helpful if the correction is not super expensive. 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.120 >> Sure, okay. 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.280 >> If the correction is $2,000, and I say I'll dismiss that. 00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:59.160 Although, on the other hand, if they're good for the fine, 00:15:59.160 --> 00:16:02.440 I mean that $581 can go to the correction. 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:08.440 >> I'm a little curious that because on commercial, you have to have a COA to be in there. 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:14.360 Okay, on residential, you have to have an inspection and stuff before you do that. 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:19.000 So if someone breaches the code, I'm a little surprised the city just said turn off the juice. 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.800 Cuz we all gotta buy electricity from you guys. 00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:24.040 If you're non-compliant, fine, enjoy yourself. 00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:27.800 I'm just curious, should you say the fines are not efficient, 00:16:27.800 --> 00:16:30.760 but if they can't turn on the electricity, they'll show up. 00:16:30.760 --> 00:16:38.680 >> I think counsel has actually made it a policy of the city not to have electricity turnoffs. 00:16:38.680 --> 00:16:42.600 >> There's some liability issues there, yeah. 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.600 >> Well, and I'm not really advocating for that. 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.320 I'm just surprised because in this instance, 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.720 you think the city has a lot of ability to bring people into code compliance. 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:53.400 And the reality is you're pretty limited. 00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:55.800 >> So what you're looking for there, and I'm sorry. 00:16:55.800 --> 00:17:00.920 You're looking for some type of, as far as criminal goes, 00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:04.520 it's usually either jail or fine or some combination of the two. 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.560 You can't really assess anything outside of that as far. 00:17:09.560 --> 00:17:13.320 You can't say, well, your criminal penalty is gonna be come paint my house. 00:17:13.320 --> 00:17:15.400 >> No, no, no, not like that. 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:17.880 They just take and ignore you. 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:23.720 >> Well, having lived in the storage district for a long time, we see this time and time again. 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.280 People do things and tear out entire fronts. 00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:27.480 They all change the color. 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.680 They all do all kinds of things without any permission, and then they come and go, 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:35.640 okay, let me go to confession and get absolved by saying three Hail Marys. 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:37.960 I mean, that's what it really winds up seeming. 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.440 And they know, they just don't care. 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.920 So I find that we're doing good. 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:43.960 I'd rather have them stop. 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:45.640 I like Cameron's postcard a lot. 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:49.560 But I do get the feeling that they're gonna do what they wanna do anyway. 00:17:49.560 --> 00:17:54.920 >> Well, what happens if they decide they don't wanna be in the district anymore? 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:57.000 They already own this property and they're living there. 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.880 >> So yeah, that's a different question. 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.440 That's off our topic for today. 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:03.480 >> Wow, that's good. 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:05.800 >> That's off our topic for today. 00:18:05.800 --> 00:18:09.000 So that's something- >> I have a question. 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.000 If somebody does this repeatedly, is it enhanceable? 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.800 >> No, it's not written that way. 00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:16.440 I did have, Cameron, I did have a question. 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.560 Something you brought up. 00:18:17.560 --> 00:18:19.160 So they don't get a permit at all? 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:20.040 >> Correct. 00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:20.920 >> It's residential. 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.320 They were supposed to get a permit to put a new front door on? 00:18:23.320 --> 00:18:25.320 Would they have to? 00:18:25.320 --> 00:18:26.280 >> Is it? 00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:26.920 Yes. 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:27.720 >> Okay, yes. 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.920 >> So they would be required to- >> So there'd be two issues. 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.440 They put a front door on that doesn't comply with the character of the neighborhood. 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:34.920 >> Correct. 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:36.200 >> And they didn't get a permit at all. 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:36.600 >> Correct. 00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:44.840 >> So building planning would tell them, well, you can go get a permit after the fact. 00:18:44.840 --> 00:18:46.120 >> Yes. 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:49.320 >> So could y'all not also tell them? 00:18:49.320 --> 00:18:52.040 And we're gonna file it. 00:18:52.040 --> 00:18:57.160 We're gonna file on you for not having a permit at all, and you need to go get a permit. 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.920 And then we could, and then I'm gonna file a second case. 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:05.080 I mean, I'd actually be doing both for violating. 00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:09.320 So you'd have the no permit at all and historic plan. 00:19:09.320 --> 00:19:11.880 So it'd be two violations, which would be $1,000 plus. 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.320 You should have same file two cases offer to dismiss them both. 00:19:15.320 --> 00:19:17.960 >> Two requirements, yes. 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:26.520 >> So there are ways and it's like you said, how much did it cost to redo? 00:19:26.520 --> 00:19:28.120 How much does it cost to repaint? 00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:29.240 How much are the fines worth? 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.760 How much is it worth for them to be like, I'll pay the full fines. 00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:34.360 >> Can I ask a question? 00:19:34.360 --> 00:19:38.280 It's not necessarily related to historic district, but just in general, in order to apply. 00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:41.800 Let's say somebody decides to convert their garage to a part of their house, 00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:45.000 or add a small addition and they don't get it permitted. 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.520 What does the city do about that? 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:51.320 >> Same sort of situation because the fee still applies. 00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:53.880 So we would require them to get a permit, right? 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:58.280 And if they choose not to, actually we'll prosecute if we choose to. 00:19:58.280 --> 00:20:03.880 But we actually would like for them to inspect, ensure that they were done properly 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:05.320 so that there would be no life safety. 00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:08.120 >> Yeah, because I've seen like people list where they have 00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:10.360 unpermitted addition that I'm thinking of. 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:13.720 >> But if it does comply with all codes, building codes. 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:21.160 >> And that's why you guys have seen people come after the fact in some cases when it 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.240 was discovered, either they didn't have a permit or the system wasn't set up to flag 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.520 historic homes yet. 00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:30.600 We'll sometimes have them come back after as well to talk to you all and kind of get 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:36.120 the experience of going in here, understanding that next time they need to come back beforehand. 00:20:36.120 --> 00:20:40.280 So it at least gives them an experience of what the process should look like, 00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:42.360 even if it was done out of sequence. 00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:48.120 But I also, I just want to remind everyone, we do have our ad hoc committee who's actively 00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:51.640 looking at the code the way it exists right now. 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:56.920 But, you know, we as city staff are all limited by what the code allows. 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:02.840 And if there is no, if sometimes the answer is the code doesn't let us do it. 00:21:02.840 --> 00:21:04.120 And that's frustrating. 00:21:04.120 --> 00:21:05.880 I know that's the worst answer for me to give. 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:07.240 It's not helpful. 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.720 But that's sometimes the only answer we can give you is that the way the code is written, 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.720 there isn't another fine or there isn't another penalty that might be great enough 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.280 to encourage people to actually do the work correctly. 00:21:18.280 --> 00:21:20.680 But that's something that kind of our ad hoc committee can look at. 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:25.080 I think that's why I'm glad we're having this discussion now before we kind of decided 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:28.920 what direction you guys want to take for any amendments you want to make. 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:32.360 Because now you can kind of understand from both what building enforcement can do, 00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:34.120 which is what Cameron just presented on, 00:21:34.120 --> 00:21:36.920 and then how the municipal prosecution process looks like. 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:41.960 Because that's really the only two routes that exist right now for violations of the code. 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.920 And so that's what we wanted to bring you all up to speed on. 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:49.240 And then as you know, the ad hoc committee can discuss maybe additional routes you want to take 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.560 and reach out to me and Cameron and see if you want to find other cities. 00:21:53.560 --> 00:21:55.160 They do things differently or the same. 00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:01.080 But there's really, we're very limited by what our current procedures allow. 00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:02.280 So we're going to do better. 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:03.560 We're going to do better. 00:22:03.560 --> 00:22:08.920 Well, yes, we got to do better within the code. 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:13.720 I actually had an issue that would be helpful if some of y'all's come up, 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:17.080 and it's not fixed in code enforcement. 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:19.960 So it's an offense to build a fence without a permit, right? 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:21.560 Yes, you need a permit. 00:22:21.560 --> 00:22:25.080 So you put it up, you don't have a permit, you take it, you pay it in full. 00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:27.640 It's a one-time offense, right? 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:28.200 Yeah. 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.240 And so somebody, so then what? 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:31.720 Nothing. 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:37.320 So if we wrote that, and that's not y'all's deal, but if that section was written, 00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:42.200 it shall be an offense to maintain a fence that was erected without a permit each day, 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.880 it shall be a shepherd offense. 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:50.360 That's the way, and my defense attorney over here is thinking, "How do I get around that?" 00:22:50.360 --> 00:22:53.800 What I'm worried about is all of a sudden, 00:22:53.800 --> 00:22:55.400 somebody coming back a year and a half later will be like, 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.480 "Well, where did he get you for the last year and a half you didn't have a permit?" 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.560 X amount of dollars a day, that could be... 00:22:59.560 --> 00:23:03.720 But, and somebody could argue you're just trying to get around double jeopardy. 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.720 It was the one time I put it up on one day. 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:07.960 But that's the issue. 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.120 That's the issue if paying the fine is worth it. 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:13.800 It happens on traffic accidents. 00:23:13.800 --> 00:23:15.560 I mean, we are not a civil court, 00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:21.400 but if somebody deems your back of your bumper and they didn't have insurance 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:25.400 and it's a $250, what? 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.640 Card pairs 250, but let's go with it. 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:33.480 You know, they can bang it out for 250 and my victim, like I just, 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.680 I don't have any money. 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.880 It's a good car though. 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:36.440 I want them. 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.320 And I can say, "I'll dismiss your $250 ticket if you just pay the restitution." 00:23:41.320 --> 00:23:45.960 But if they crush the back end of your car and it's 3000 bucks, what? 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.560 "I'll dismiss your $200 ticket if you pay the $3000." 00:23:49.560 --> 00:23:52.920 So you see what I'm saying? 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.920 That's where these cases get into. 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:56.280 Is it a huge change? 00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:58.840 How expensive is the change they're going to weigh? 00:23:58.840 --> 00:24:03.080 It's a garage conversion that costs a lot of money. 00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:05.480 It's a front door, depends on the front door. 00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:08.280 And certainly that's more doable. 00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:11.880 And I think it is a tough issue. 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.480 It's just that it would be nice to not have to be discussing this all together. 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:17.320 You know, I mean, I like your postcards. 00:24:17.320 --> 00:24:20.600 I think you have to send them like every month to keep people aware 00:24:20.600 --> 00:24:21.800 that they need to do stuff. 00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:23.480 So I have two questions. 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:29.080 One, has anybody ever come and asked retroactively for a COA? 00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:31.560 Has the same person ever had that happen once anybody's aware of? 00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:34.840 Not that since I've been here, I've never had that happen. 00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:36.600 But they've never come back for anything else either. 00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:40.600 One guy came for two things, the guy that did the mural. 00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:45.800 One guy came with two potential oopsies. 00:24:45.800 --> 00:24:51.080 He said no and the city council overruled us and left him alone. 00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:52.200 Well, I guess my question is... 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:58.200 And that guy was on the HLC. 00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:59.240 He knows. 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:00.040 No, he knows. 00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:00.520 He knows. 00:25:00.520 --> 00:25:02.600 And he didn't even ask. 00:25:02.600 --> 00:25:05.080 Yeah, it's hard to say, you know, yeah. 00:25:05.080 --> 00:25:08.840 Knowledge is power. 00:25:08.840 --> 00:25:10.680 Yeah, seriously. 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:17.080 So, yeah, so if it's an issue of somebody coming back over and over, 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:19.640 it sounds like more than anything else that people just don't know. 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.160 And they don't do it again after that first time 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.640 because they know the procedures at that point. 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:28.040 And it sounds like there's safeguards in place now 00:25:28.040 --> 00:25:29.320 to prevent that from happening. 00:25:29.320 --> 00:25:31.320 Like it'll be flagged for that sort of thing. 00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:35.720 I guess the only real loophole is if somebody doesn't get a permit at all, 00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:37.240 then they're bypassing HLC too. 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:37.960 Right. 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:40.840 And, I mean, it's going to be the same issues that, you know, 00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:43.880 non-permits are going to have all over the place 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:45.080 that don't have anything to do with HLC. 00:25:45.080 --> 00:25:47.960 What was that house on Avenue C, was it, or Malone? 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:50.040 Where the guy just took the whole front off of it 00:25:50.040 --> 00:25:51.560 and then claimed ignorance. 00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:54.040 It was about six, eight months ago. 00:25:54.040 --> 00:25:59.800 And, you know, we could maybe approach it from a positive standpoint 00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:04.120 because remember we talked about last time the tax exemption, right? 00:26:04.120 --> 00:26:08.280 And if we did a public information thing that said, 00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:12.840 hey, we can cut your taxes in half and come to our informal thing, 00:26:12.840 --> 00:26:17.080 spend whatever and you get a decrease. 00:26:17.080 --> 00:26:18.440 And by the way, here are the rules. 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.080 In other words, because our job at the end of the day 00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:23.480 isn't to be punitive to the people in our districts, 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:25.080 but rather to help them comply. 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:26.840 That's ultimately what we're supposed to do. 00:26:26.840 --> 00:26:28.040 And that works both ways. 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:30.440 At that point, because if somebody is violating, 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.400 we could take that into consideration, I assume, 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.040 with their deduction as well. 00:26:36.040 --> 00:26:40.600 Yeah, because if the work wasn't done appropriately. 00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:42.520 Obviously, if the work is not done appropriately 00:26:42.520 --> 00:26:46.600 and it comes in front of HLC, you all can state that it's denied 00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:49.960 and then it would end up going to city council 00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.040 and stated why it was a denial. 00:26:52.040 --> 00:26:57.560 And usually in the past, they've voted which way HLC votes. 00:26:57.560 --> 00:26:59.640 So the more people we can get on board with getting the deduction, 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:00.920 the more teeth that we have. 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.720 It's just information because a lot of people, that's a hook. 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:05.080 I can cut your taxes in half. 00:27:05.080 --> 00:27:06.760 You're already spending the money, right? 00:27:06.760 --> 00:27:11.320 Probably over the course of a decade, you're going to have spent 10 grand, right? 00:27:11.320 --> 00:27:15.800 So you get a whole decade's worth of 50% of the city taxes. 00:27:15.800 --> 00:27:19.160 Well, I was about to state, so I'm glad you stated this right, 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.040 but I was supposed to say education at this point is very key. 00:27:22.040 --> 00:27:26.600 It's really putting a face to a name of who the Historic Landmark Commission is. 00:27:27.560 --> 00:27:29.880 For instance, I had a gentleman come in today. 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.400 He was looking to do something to the interior of one of the historic buildings. 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.400 And he goes, I was told by all my neighbors, I have to go get the COA. 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:39.800 I did not do anything until I talked to you. 00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:42.440 I told you, and I was like, that is great. 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.600 I was like, you're not actually touching the exterior. 00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:48.120 So you don't need to come to me for a COA. 00:27:48.120 --> 00:27:50.440 But I was like, thank you so much for coming in. 00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.280 I was like, this is exactly what we need. 00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:55.800 I was like, if someone else has a question for you on the square 00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:58.120 and you're touching the exterior, definitely send it my way. 00:27:58.120 --> 00:28:00.840 The more eyes we have out there, the better. 00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:02.040 And he was like, thank you so much. 00:28:02.040 --> 00:28:04.840 So that's just word of mouth, even. 00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:06.840 Well, and it's reassuring that it wasn't the neighbors coming in 00:28:06.840 --> 00:28:08.520 to be like, do it anyway and just ask for permission. 00:28:08.520 --> 00:28:09.160 Yeah, exactly. 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.360 So I mean, it does go to show that I don't think that's the 00:28:12.360 --> 00:28:18.440 reputation that people have or that this committee has to the public. 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.880 That, oh, well, forget what they say, $500. 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:22.520 All right. 00:28:22.520 --> 00:28:25.960 Well, yeah, I saw somebody just recently, I went to see this house on Congress 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:26.680 that we almost bought. 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:28.360 I sent the guy to you and gave him your contact 00:28:28.360 --> 00:28:29.880 because he was from Dallas as a realtor. 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.440 He wanted to know, oh, how difficult is HLC? 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.320 And I'm laughing thinking, it's not bad, you know. 00:28:35.320 --> 00:28:36.600 All the rules because he's been in Dallas. 00:28:36.600 --> 00:28:37.720 So he thinks it's a lot harder. 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:39.560 Exactly. 00:28:39.560 --> 00:28:40.440 I said, it's not really that bad. 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.480 He didn't do the work. 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:43.800 He's like, oh, I gave you your contact. 00:28:43.800 --> 00:28:44.440 Okay. 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:45.880 I've heard from him, but that's great. 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:46.360 That's good. 00:28:46.360 --> 00:28:46.840 Thank you. 00:28:46.840 --> 00:28:57.800 So since we have Stephanie here, she's going to go through the municipal court. 00:28:57.800 --> 00:29:05.880 So you guys know what happens if anyone is interested in filing with the municipal court, 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:10.920 which again, criminal court, it's a little bit different, but Stephanie's expert. 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:11.960 She knows it all. 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:12.680 Okay. 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.800 So first, who brings a case to municipal court? 00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:18.440 Anyone can bring the case to municipal court. 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.440 One of y'all, a concerned citizen, a city employee. 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:27.080 Anyone willing to sign a probable cause affidavit? 00:29:27.080 --> 00:29:29.080 What is a probable cause affidavit? 00:29:29.080 --> 00:29:33.720 It is a legal document that sets forth enough evidence for the judge to believe 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.920 there's probable cause reasonably, but offense occurs. 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.440 It's not beyond a reasonable doubt. 00:29:41.320 --> 00:29:46.120 More likely than not that an offense has occurred and it was committed by this person. 00:29:46.120 --> 00:29:50.760 So the first thing, the process before the hearing, 00:29:50.760 --> 00:29:52.840 someone decides an offense has taken place. 00:29:52.840 --> 00:29:54.280 Someone that lives in the district. 00:29:54.280 --> 00:29:59.800 My neighbor painted their house purple, white, and green stripes on the front. 00:29:59.800 --> 00:30:03.400 And this is not in the character of our neighborhood. 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.880 You call Cameron or ethnic, you know, 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.440 would you be the person they contact and say, 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:15.480 I cannot believe what they did to the front of this house. 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:16.040 Yes. 00:30:16.040 --> 00:30:17.400 And it was so beautiful. 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:25.400 And then y'all look at the standards and you believe a violation has occurred. 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:28.440 Maybe you reach out to Marcel and she's like, yeah, call Stephanie. 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.880 And then I would email you an affidavit. 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:33.880 Actually, like, this is just a rough draft. 00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:34.600 This is an example. 00:30:34.600 --> 00:30:37.720 I thought about bringing like a completed building and planning one, 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:39.400 but it would have someone's name on there. 00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:41.960 They are public record. 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:43.720 Someone could get them. 00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.960 But I thought I don't want to redact a bunch of stuff 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:47.320 and have a bunch of redaction. 00:30:47.320 --> 00:30:54.040 So I actually took out the place for home address. 00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:57.800 It's not required that if a citizen files against someone, 00:30:57.800 --> 00:30:59.000 we haven't put their home address. 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:00.440 We can find them via witness. 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:06.280 If y'all are filing it, you know, we can, we could find you. 00:31:06.280 --> 00:31:07.960 I took out home number. 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:09.800 This is trying to tell you how old these are. 00:31:09.800 --> 00:31:14.840 I took out home number because we all have cell phones now. 00:31:14.840 --> 00:31:19.160 And then I thought this is city. 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.240 I'm supposed to make this gender neutral. 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.320 And then I thought, well, this is also criminal case 00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:24.280 and a warrant could be issued. 00:31:24.280 --> 00:31:26.360 So it can't be general gender neutral. 00:31:26.360 --> 00:31:28.520 But I did put the word there in one place. 00:31:28.520 --> 00:31:31.960 So for these are criminal cases. 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:35.640 So we need a date of birth, if possible. 00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.880 It can't go into warrant because I'll give you an example 00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:44.120 at when I lived in the city of Denton 00:31:44.120 --> 00:31:46.200 on the voting registrations at one time, 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.440 there was four Stephanie Barry's, right? 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.240 So if they go to, they need to know which Stephanie Barry it is. 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:52.760 Well, it's the oldest, I was the oldest. 00:31:52.760 --> 00:31:57.560 So having my birthday would be helpful, right? 00:31:57.560 --> 00:32:03.800 So it's going to have some identifying information on there. 00:32:04.520 --> 00:32:09.400 And the person that swears to the probable cause affidavit 00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:14.040 has to know that the suspect, defendant, 00:32:14.040 --> 00:32:17.720 he'll be a defendant or she will be a defendant. 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.760 Once they get this, they have a right to a copy of this. 00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.880 They're going to get a copy of this. 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:23.160 - Is it redacted though? 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.640 - No, it's not legal to redact a probable cause affidavit. 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.040 Actually, I've had a police officer mad at me 00:32:30.040 --> 00:32:35.800 when a lady was murdered by her boyfriend. 00:32:35.800 --> 00:32:38.280 It was, y'all probably heard about it, 00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:41.080 where the boyfriend made it look like a suicide 00:32:41.080 --> 00:32:43.320 and that he was a sheriff's deputy from Tarrant County 00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:44.680 and turned out to be a murder. 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:50.680 Well, the officer listed the mom's name of the victim 00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:51.480 in the affidavit. 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.040 Well, of course, the press, I mean, it was newsworthy. 00:32:54.040 --> 00:32:57.080 We're calling the mom, but her name was on there. 00:32:57.080 --> 00:33:00.600 Like I can't, and so one of the sergeants called me, 00:33:00.600 --> 00:33:03.480 you should redact, like it's illegal for me to redact it. 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:05.880 So yeah, so it has to be. 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.280 So maybe two neighbors live together. 00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:12.920 If they hate the house, one's more less worried 00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:14.760 about finding out who filed it. 00:33:14.760 --> 00:33:17.720 Maybe it's me and I'm like, I'll sign the affidavit. 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:18.440 It's okay. 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:19.960 They've got to be willing to do that. 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:22.920 So, but a city employee could sign the affidavit. 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.240 So someone fills out this affidavit. 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:27.400 Our judge, our current judge actually 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.280 just changed the process this year 00:33:30.280 --> 00:33:33.240 and the affidavit can be sworn to a notary public 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:34.760 or he allows a police officer. 00:33:34.760 --> 00:33:39.320 So you don't have to, we used to have to make appointments 00:33:39.320 --> 00:33:41.080 until the last year with the judge. 00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:43.560 So that was a little cumbersome for everybody. 00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:44.760 So it could be done. 00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:47.720 You could do it with a notary. 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:52.120 And then it is sent to the, this document will be filled out, 00:33:52.120 --> 00:33:56.280 sworn to and sent to the judge, sworn to in front 00:33:56.280 --> 00:33:59.400 of a notary or a peace officer. 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.280 He finds probable cause that all the elements are there. 00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:03.640 He will issue a summons. 00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:06.200 We don't put classes into warrant 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.160 without giving them a chance to voluntarily come to court. 00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:13.960 And an order to come to court and answer to the charge. 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:14.840 What does that mean? 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:18.840 That means to plea guilty, not guilty or no contest. 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.000 That's, I do, we do those three days a week 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.480 at one o'clock, Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:29.640 And they have a right to hire an attorney, hire an attorney. 00:34:29.640 --> 00:34:33.800 And they have a right to a judge or jury trial. 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.720 The case is, has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, 00:34:37.720 --> 00:34:38.840 even though it's a class C. 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:44.120 So it's a criminal burden of proof. 00:34:44.120 --> 00:34:46.600 Here say, can be on here. 00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:53.160 My neighbor said that they knew the house was supposed to be, 00:34:53.160 --> 00:34:57.640 you know, red and they painted it polka dots. 00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:01.560 And that's hearsay, right? 00:35:01.560 --> 00:35:03.480 It's what somebody else said. 00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.120 That can be considered for a probable cause affidavit. 00:35:06.120 --> 00:35:11.400 For court hearsay, hearsay could come in, 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:16.760 but I'll tell you our current judge will not consider it at all. 00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:20.040 Judge Ramsey would weigh it. 00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:22.280 I'm giving the tips away. 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.480 I mean, it doesn't matter. 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.040 It's not a tip because he won't consider it at all. 00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:29.480 And it cuts both directions too. 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:30.920 It does cut both directions. 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:33.000 He won't, it's like, he never heard it. 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.160 If it's not hearsay. 00:35:35.160 --> 00:35:39.560 So if the neighbor that heard the person that painted the house say, 00:35:39.560 --> 00:35:41.800 I'm, you know, admit to the violation, 00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.440 you need that body in the courtroom to testify. 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.680 So what's required on this hearsay can come in. 00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:55.000 That's how they get warrants on selling drugs and a lot of things. 00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.920 But for court hearsay can come in if it without objection, 00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.120 but depending on the judge, they can weigh it as nothing 00:36:04.120 --> 00:36:06.200 or they can look at the credibility of it. 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:09.560 Our current judge will not consider it at all. 00:36:09.560 --> 00:36:18.360 So you need live bodies in court to testify if someone please please not guilty. 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:19.160 Let's see. 00:36:19.160 --> 00:36:26.120 So we got, so someone hires an attorney. 00:36:26.120 --> 00:36:29.160 Does that mean that they're going to go to trial? 00:36:29.160 --> 00:36:35.560 I'm always actually happy when people hire an attorney 00:36:35.560 --> 00:36:40.680 because I'm more likely to get a reasonable discussion. 00:36:40.680 --> 00:36:45.080 I'm not saying an outcome and resolution. 00:36:45.080 --> 00:36:49.800 And a lot of times people will get to the trial 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.120 then they're representing themselves and suddenly, hey, I want to hire an attorney. 00:36:54.120 --> 00:36:58.360 Or guilty, not guilty or no contest. 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.360 And then the life story starts guilty, not guilty. 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.640 So it's not a bad thing when people hire an attorney. 00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:06.360 It's a good thing. 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:11.880 And I'm not saying maybe most of the people I talk to 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.040 are representing themselves and it's not a problem, 00:37:14.040 --> 00:37:16.840 but sometimes it's really good if someone hires an attorney. 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:21.160 And then make plea bargain offers. 00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:25.560 And like I said, in a case where we're not trying to be punitive, 00:37:25.560 --> 00:37:28.600 like Mr. Anderson said, we want it to be fixed. 00:37:28.600 --> 00:37:29.960 We wish it hadn't happened. 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:31.160 We want it to go back. 00:37:31.160 --> 00:37:33.480 We want to put the property in the state it should have been. 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:37.800 So I will always, 100% of the time, offer, 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.560 I'll just dismiss it if you would go to the HLC 00:37:41.560 --> 00:37:43.560 and make it like it was supposed to be. 00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:46.840 And their willingness to do that. 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:51.640 And they might be willing to do it even if the cost is much higher than the maximum fine. 00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:56.760 If maybe it was just an accident or they were clueless or they feel bad 00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:59.800 or their neighbors are mad at them now and they don't want to move. 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:03.240 And so they want to, you know, there's different reasons why they might do it. 00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:07.160 Or they have to report class misdemeanors to an ethical board. 00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:11.560 Yes, there's different, there's different reasons why they 00:38:11.560 --> 00:38:16.760 might want to come into compliance beyond just, they'll get their fine dismissed. 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:20.600 The city can file this and a natural person can file this. 00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:23.240 Corporation file this? 00:38:23.240 --> 00:38:25.880 It has to be a, a lot. 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:27.080 Yeah, okay. 00:38:27.080 --> 00:38:32.920 It has to be an individual human being that swears to the affidavit. 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:34.280 It has to be based on personal knowledge. 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:38.120 So, you know, you can't say, you know, a corporation can't say, 00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:40.840 "I saw something," it's an individual within the corporation. 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.200 Okay, but the HLC is an entity or a code. 00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:47.720 Right, so individual on the HLC or just direct? 00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:49.240 I'm not saying we should. 00:38:49.240 --> 00:38:50.600 Well, yeah, yeah. 00:38:50.600 --> 00:38:52.120 I'm having a conflict there. 00:38:52.120 --> 00:38:56.520 A probable cause affidavit cannot be sworn to by a corporation. 00:38:56.520 --> 00:38:57.640 It has to be by a person. 00:38:57.640 --> 00:38:58.360 An individual. 00:38:58.360 --> 00:38:59.320 Okay, that's fine. 00:38:59.320 --> 00:38:59.820 Yes. 00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:02.520 It makes it easy, but curious. 00:39:02.520 --> 00:39:05.000 I mean, I think the major problem is flippers. 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:05.800 You're kicking me over here. 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:09.000 It's not, it's not, you know, I don't think it's individuals living 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.720 there as much as people in flipper houses. 00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:12.600 And so they don't-- 00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:13.640 To make a profit. 00:39:13.640 --> 00:39:16.600 Right, so that's our issue mainly. 00:39:16.600 --> 00:39:18.680 I don't see it as an issue of, you know, people that, I mean, 00:39:18.680 --> 00:39:20.520 there are some that live there, but they're long, 00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:24.440 whether they're shorter, long-term, you know, flippers, that's the real issue. 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:26.600 I have a question, this is something I should know when I go. 00:39:26.600 --> 00:39:28.920 In the code, who is liable? 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.840 It's the homeowner, not a contractor or anyone else 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:34.360 that needed to get the permit. 00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:35.960 It's the actual homeowner that's liable. 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:36.520 Yes. 00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:39.400 Okay, so if they hire a company to do it and they say, 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:40.280 "I'm not going to get a permit." 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:41.400 These violations, yeah. 00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.840 Yeah, you're putting your homeowner in some risk there. 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.440 Yeah, my contract said, you know, 00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:50.680 "I'll get the permit, this is how much it costs you." 00:39:50.680 --> 00:39:51.800 Because I had to pay for it. 00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.440 So, any questions about the municipal process? 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.120 So, Cameron, you're going to be signing these, right? 00:40:00.120 --> 00:40:00.680 Yeah. 00:40:00.680 --> 00:40:05.560 The person is Cameron. 00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:08.760 Get ready, Stephanie. 00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:14.120 My cell phone is on 365-247. 00:40:14.120 --> 00:40:14.920 Oh, you poor thing. 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:16.200 Oh, no, I don't want to bother you. 00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:17.000 I won't bother you. 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.640 Stephanie will be like, 00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:21.640 "Why did I agree to come to the support meeting?" 00:40:21.640 --> 00:40:25.240 You got a new court on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. 00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:27.480 There we go. 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:28.440 1 PM, oh, you got that one. 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:29.480 Yes, 1 PM. 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:30.360 Pop quiz. 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:33.080 I have an animal services officer coming tomorrow 00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:41.960 to file several animal at large cases on behalf of a citizen in kind of the same idea. 00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:47.560 And this citizen, I'll give you an example, fines don't always work. 00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:49.640 This guy has 11 cases. 00:40:49.640 --> 00:40:51.000 He's hired Chris Jones. 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:51.640 Oh. 00:40:51.640 --> 00:40:53.880 And he paid for some of them. 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.200 And it's just dog at large. 00:40:56.200 --> 00:40:57.320 He just won't. 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:02.120 And I'm just like, some people have, it's fair to say, I'm not saying anything, 00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:04.360 more money than sense. 00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:16.440 So, I'm just like, sometimes fines don't help people that don't feel like I'll just pay. 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.960 I don't care how many times you find me. 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:18.680 I'm just going to pay. 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.040 What is this saying, a fine is just legal for a certain amount of money? 00:41:22.040 --> 00:41:25.160 We know what you are, and now we're just quibbling the load. 00:41:25.160 --> 00:41:27.880 Yeah, so we do that. 00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:33.080 I have city employees file cases for code violations for, 00:41:33.080 --> 00:41:37.960 and Caleb Norris is doing some for home occupation, 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.840 a person who won't quit running their auto repair shop out of their driveway. 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:43.800 Oh, wow. 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.200 Okay. 00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:45.560 I think I know where that is too. 00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:51.720 We might, and a police officer actually was out there on complaint and got a body cam 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:56.280 clip of the person, it was the defendant saying, yeah, I guess I should get a shot. 00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:01.880 So, we kind of put, like she was out on a parking violation call. 00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:06.600 So, she knew Caleb had gotten like, so there's all different kinds of ways you can get evidence. 00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:08.040 That's when I watch the body cam and I'm just like. 00:42:08.040 --> 00:42:11.720 You're done. 00:42:11.720 --> 00:42:12.280 You're toast. 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:12.920 You're history. 00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:19.560 So, any questions for Stephanie or can we let her get back to her day? 00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:21.880 I have a busy cell phone. 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:26.520 My husband, my husband has early onset Alzheimer's. 00:42:26.520 --> 00:42:29.400 So, my mom went to get, he can stay at home by himself, 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.720 but he can't like drive to my mom's and meet me there. 00:42:31.720 --> 00:42:33.480 So, my mom went to get him. 00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:35.640 So, I'm going to meet there and we're all going to have dinner together. 00:42:35.640 --> 00:42:41.400 Well, thank you for coming. 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.040 Okay, y'all have a great night. Thank you. 00:42:44.040 --> 00:42:44.920 Appreciate it. 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:47.000 And Cameron, I'm sure we'll be speaking. 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.240 Yes, I'll be in touch. 00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:51.480 She made sure to get all of our names and addresses. 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:51.800 Yes. 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:55.960 Yeah, I took that, I took the address. 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.000 I thought nobody really needs to know if any of y'all filed this for you. 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:06.360 Ron, do you need this over there? 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:12.040 Okay, I can do that. Are you presenting Ron and Roy? 00:43:12.040 --> 00:43:14.440 Oh, well, I was going to say Roy has to make the announcement. 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:21.160 Okay, next on our work session is ATLT 22-059. 00:43:21.160 --> 00:43:26.600 Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding DIN 2040 comprehensive plan. 00:43:26.600 --> 00:43:27.880 And... 00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:32.280 I was going to say, so, Roy. 00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:35.480 Ron is going to make the presentation. 00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:37.960 Well, thank you for the opportunity. 00:43:38.600 --> 00:43:41.960 Really, if you can do the next slide just real quickly. 00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:45.880 What we're doing here is really just to share with the HLC 00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:53.000 that on March 22nd of this year, the City Council of the City of Mordens 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.560 approving the update to the comprehensive plan, the city's comprehensive plan. 00:43:57.560 --> 00:44:03.960 The list that you see there is really the major components of the comprehensive plan, 00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:09.720 starting with the community vision, the elements within the plan, all the way down to the action 00:44:09.720 --> 00:44:14.040 plan. And I have slides for each of these, so we won't go through all this, but then 00:44:14.040 --> 00:44:16.280 also talk about the update process. 00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:21.400 So for those that aren't familiar with the comprehensive plan, it's an overarching document 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:28.760 that kind of gives guidance to all the other plans and documents that the city has to follow, 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:34.120 such as, say, the historic preservation plan, the mobility plan, so all those are 00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:35.960 under the comprehensive plan. 00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:40.280 So again, it's an overarching document, again, sets the priorities for the community, 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:44.440 mainly manages growth, and hopefully promotes reinvestment, 00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:48.040 improving the quality of life of our citizens as well. 00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:53.720 So you may ask, well, where does it fit in all of the plans and what we just talked about, 00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:55.800 some of the permits and the COA? 00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.480 Well, it's really the base, right? 00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:02.920 It's the start of where we look at when we look at how we want to implement our plans. 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:08.760 So starting with the comprehensive plan, and above that is, again, back to our zoning area 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:14.520 plans and site plans, that can include our historic preservation plan as well. 00:45:14.520 --> 00:45:20.840 And then above that is how we install or put in infrastructure and utilities, 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:24.040 and then all the way up to certificate of occupancies and permits. 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:32.280 The vision is, again, it's the first one, and that's why it's here listed as the first one, 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.880 because it's an important one, a component of the comprehensive plan. 00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:42.520 It basically tells us what our vision for the city is for the next 15 to 20 years. 00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:45.800 And it's broken down by four strategic directions, 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:50.520 the character, the people, the economy, and then just growth in general. 00:45:50.520 --> 00:45:51.720 So that's how it's broken down. 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:56.520 We've got goals, policies, and actions throughout the comprehensive plan. 00:45:56.520 --> 00:46:02.520 Again, what it does is it implements the vision of the city through these goals, 00:46:02.520 --> 00:46:04.920 policies, and ultimately these actions that we have. 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:08.680 I'll go through this fairly quickly. 00:46:08.680 --> 00:46:11.160 These are the elements that are in the comprehensive plan. 00:46:11.160 --> 00:46:15.800 The first one is the plan framework, basically what's existing conditions, 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.680 what we anticipate those conditions to be. 00:46:18.680 --> 00:46:23.880 And then we get into lane use, economic, vitality, community character, 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:27.160 and then parks, conservation, and environment. 00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:31.480 Community character, just really quickly, is where a lot of the historic preservation 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:34.760 goals, policies, and actions are located. 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:38.120 So that's why it's highlighted there, or it's at least mentioned there in this slide. 00:46:38.120 --> 00:46:44.840 So again, element four is where you will see most of the historic preservation policies and actions. 00:46:46.200 --> 00:46:53.240 We also have mobility, housing. Housing does have some preservation actions, community health, 00:46:53.240 --> 00:46:58.200 infrastructure, and utilities, and ultimately implementation and monitoring is the last element. 00:46:58.200 --> 00:47:02.440 So that describes all the elements in the comprehensive plan. 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:09.480 But again, element four is an important one for this commission to review if you have the opportunity. 00:47:11.720 --> 00:47:17.240 Again, the next few slides are maps. Maps are always telling of where, you know, 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:19.960 we want growth to happen and how it should happen. 00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.840 So the first map is really the growth pattern 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:26.600 of where we want to see the city to grow in the next 15 to 20 years. 00:47:26.600 --> 00:47:31.400 You see that much of the core area is where development should occur. 00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:38.120 We do also have master plan communities, ropes and ranch as well, to the south and southwest. 00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:41.880 So those areas are growing as well. You know, the coal and hunter ranch are other 00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:47.560 master plan communities that will be coming on track pretty soon as well. 00:47:47.560 --> 00:47:49.720 But again, our main purpose is the core area. 00:47:49.720 --> 00:47:52.120 What's the purple light? I looked through that. I couldn't hear what the purple was. 00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:57.960 Yeah, purple is the industrial areas. So the heavy industrial and light industrial. 00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:04.360 So we also recognize that that's an industry that's growing tremendously right now. 00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:09.080 That's sort of what's really driving some of the development activities that we have in the city 00:48:09.080 --> 00:48:14.600 is that western portion of the city, we're seeing a lot of logistics centers, 00:48:14.600 --> 00:48:18.600 some light industrial manufacturing and fabrication. 00:48:18.600 --> 00:48:23.240 As someone said, our main industry that we have is Peterbilt. 00:48:23.240 --> 00:48:30.840 And so there's a lot of those associated or related industries that help serve that company. 00:48:32.680 --> 00:48:35.640 The future land use, you saw the growth area. 00:48:35.640 --> 00:48:41.800 This is the future land use map identifying where in the city the uses should occur. 00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:46.840 And so you see the area that Mary, you just mentioned where it's purple and light blue. 00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:52.360 Those are designated as heavy industrial, industrial commerce, as well as light industrial. 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:57.240 So that area west of I-35 is where we're seeing a lot of that activity. 00:48:57.240 --> 00:48:59.960 One question on here. I couldn't figure out what it was. 00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:01.160 Maybe it just wasn't in planning. 00:49:01.160 --> 00:49:02.920 What's that? 00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:06.600 It's the part that's, gee, the area that I kind of consider home 00:49:06.600 --> 00:49:10.680 is something that's called neighborhood and university compatibility. 00:49:10.680 --> 00:49:12.360 Could you put that in English for me? 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:18.440 Sure. Yeah, it's hard to see, but really it's that area that's the lighter blue 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.880 around the university, for example, right there. 00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.960 So where the orange is, right? Well, let's see if I can make a point. 00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:32.600 Yeah, we're probably just about close to it. Yeah, it's right in here. 00:49:32.600 --> 00:49:34.600 Yeah, those are the ones I cared about. 00:49:34.600 --> 00:49:37.160 I couldn't figure out what that might mean since I live there. I care. 00:49:37.160 --> 00:49:44.360 Yeah, so the light blue is still neighborhood, university compatibility area. 00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:49.640 I think what you're referring to is maybe the neighborhood mix use just north of that. 00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:56.360 No, I want to know what university compatibility is in terms of what can go in there, 00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:58.680 because that seems a bit different than I was expecting to see. 00:49:58.680 --> 00:50:06.120 Yeah, so what that is is really the buffer area or the transition area between the university 00:50:06.120 --> 00:50:09.320 and the neighborhood, right, or the neighborhood to the university. 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.560 So what we try to do there with the future land use designation that you see here 00:50:13.560 --> 00:50:19.000 is identify areas where if there is a zoning district or a plan that can help 00:50:20.120 --> 00:50:26.520 lessen the impact of the conflict between the two entities, the neighborhoods and the university. 00:50:26.520 --> 00:50:31.080 So it's a compatibility buffer area. It's just not the universities. 00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:33.400 It's just the developers. Well, right. 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:38.600 So that's what's driving a lot of that. So that area is designated as a special area, 00:50:38.600 --> 00:50:43.960 and we need to focus on that. And we need to look at plans and zoning 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:48.520 and other development standards to help lessen some of that impact that may come from 00:50:49.160 --> 00:50:53.080 some of the development that is associated, not necessarily with the university, like you said, 00:50:53.080 --> 00:50:57.640 but maybe indirectly based on some of the needs for your housing and all that. 00:50:57.640 --> 00:51:01.400 Well, it had a tremendous effect over in our neighborhood. 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:05.240 Yes. So yeah, so it doesn't really drop down there, 00:51:05.240 --> 00:51:13.960 but the I-35 is sort of the buffer. But then you're right, it's slowly coming south of I-35. 00:51:17.720 --> 00:51:25.560 So yeah, so this is the uses that we propose or project that will develop and it helps guide any 00:51:25.560 --> 00:51:31.080 zoning change request or any development plan developments. This is the type of uses that 00:51:31.080 --> 00:51:34.920 should be in this area for the next, again, we plan for the 15 to 20 year. 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:40.520 Well, I guess I want to ask a specific question because Backwood Flow Hospital used to exist and 00:51:40.520 --> 00:51:44.120 there was an apartment complex put on there, which we thought was kind of ugly at the time. 00:51:44.120 --> 00:51:48.360 They ripped down these beautiful trees, but across the street, there's the behemoth ugly. 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:53.080 Yes. It was known for hospitals and they used it to make an apartment complex. Is the city going 00:51:53.080 --> 00:51:57.160 to go back and relook at what the zoning actually exists there so that we don't have another one of 00:51:57.160 --> 00:52:02.680 those ugly behemoths appearing because of a lack of zoning fix? Right. Yeah. So I know definitely 00:52:02.680 --> 00:52:09.080 that's something that when we, as you probably all know, back in 2019, we updated the zoning code. 00:52:09.080 --> 00:52:13.000 Part of that effort was also revisiting some of the zoning districts within the city. 00:52:14.200 --> 00:52:20.680 What we tried to do is address that specifically. Now there were direction from council that stated 00:52:20.680 --> 00:52:28.840 that if the zoning is X, it should easily transition to Y. And so we basically somewhat had 00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:35.400 our limitation on how we can change zoning to allow for that, you know, like you said, 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:39.720 adjustment if we needed to. We definitely are still looking at those and there may be some 00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:47.080 city initiated zoning district changes that we can implement. We did that along I-35. We did that 00:52:47.080 --> 00:52:52.200 along university. We can certainly look at scripture as well as part of that effort. 00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:57.080 The original intent was for medical offices, not for a behemoth apartment complex. 00:52:57.080 --> 00:53:00.920 Right. So the zoning of that area just happened to, you know, be at that time 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:07.080 zoned for a higher intensity. And again, multifamily was sort of covered under that 00:53:07.080 --> 00:53:12.440 zoning district. And that's how that was known for doctor's offices. And that's not what happened. 00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:20.120 Yeah. Also, when we were proposing or when we were drafting the conference plan update, 00:53:20.120 --> 00:53:24.840 there was a lot of discussion. Well, we have areas run for development. So shouldn't we have 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:29.480 areas for preservation? And this is land preservation, not historic preservation. This 00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:35.400 is land preservation. So what the city did with city staff and the consultants, we identified areas 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:41.320 that should be protected. You know, these are environmental sensitive areas. These are natural 00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:47.240 resources, designated floodplains and many other types of, you know, resources that we should 00:53:47.240 --> 00:53:53.000 protect and preserve. So we put this map together and this is again, helpful for anybody that's 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:58.200 developing in the city to identify where areas should be protected. And obviously you see those 00:53:58.200 --> 00:54:03.000 major creeks, right? You got Cooper Creek to the north, you got Hickory Creek to the south. 00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:10.360 The concrete kind of goes right in the middle. But these are our major creeks and tributaries 00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.880 and associated with that are potential, you know, could be potential open space trails and 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.360 other things like that. So this map gives the person that's, you know, looking at the conference 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:28.680 plan an idea of where preferred land preservation should occur. Our last map that I have here is the 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:34.600 future area concept map. These are, you know, specific areas that we want to see more 00:54:34.600 --> 00:54:42.920 evaluation or planning work. I can tell you that the city is in the process of doing an area plan 00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:57.560 for the northeast circle. That's one of our area plans that we're going to be working on. 00:54:57.560 --> 00:55:04.360 And also southeast end is another area that we're looking at doing an area plan. Cameron has been 00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:11.320 doing a lot of work there with, you know, some sign talkers, but there's a lot of activity in 00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:17.080 terms of some of the development around the downtown. And there's obviously some need for 00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:22.840 some protection and maybe some character preservation in that area. So we're looking for a small area 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:29.080 plan, an area plan at least for that area to help again identify those assets that we want to protect 00:55:29.080 --> 00:55:35.880 and maybe also enhance as well. So a lot of work is being done, but this map here illustrates all 00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:41.480 those specific years in the city. There's a lot, but we're slowly going to try to get to them. But 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:47.240 the main ones that we're are targeting at this moment is the northeast end, a lot of development 00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:52.840 happening there, as well as southeast as we see development and redevelopment occurring in that 00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:00.040 particular area. What are the red lines? The red lines are the corridors, corridor plans. So are 00:56:00.040 --> 00:56:04.280 you referring to the darker red lines or the circles? Oh, the darker red lines. Yeah, so those 00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:08.920 are corridor plans. So, you know, you have like centers where, you know, you can identify 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:15.560 neighborhoods or, you know, commercial or employment areas. But sometimes they follow a corridor. So the 00:56:15.560 --> 00:56:21.800 red ones are, starting from the bottom, you've got Teasley, you've got Fort Worth and Dallas Drive, 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:26.040 you also have Mayhill on the west, I'm sorry, the east. You've got Hickory and Oak, so you're already 00:56:26.040 --> 00:56:32.840 hitting my nerves right now. Yeah, so they go through there. I think that's Oak, if I'm not 00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:38.600 mistaken, and then University that runs east-west. Yeah, just where I wanted in front of my front door. 00:56:38.600 --> 00:56:43.320 Well, again, it's a plan, right? So it's not necessarily saying it's got to be a commercial 00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:48.520 or it's got to be a higher intensity. It's really to identify that area of focus and do more planning 00:56:48.520 --> 00:56:53.320 to identify where we, if there's protections, then we can do protection measures. If there's 00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:58.920 enhancement, we can do that as well. So it goes both ways. Right in front of my house, though. 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:03.960 I'm going to be keeping a good eye out on that. Okay. Yeah. So if you're looking at a certain area 00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:09.160 where you think there may be cultural or historical items, areas that need to be protected, what role, 00:57:09.160 --> 00:57:14.360 if any, does HLC play in that planning process? A big role. I mean, I think this is partly why 00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:20.520 when we come here is really the comprehensive plan gives you sort of the vision, right? It helps 00:57:20.520 --> 00:57:28.200 you. I mean, obviously HLC has their task, but hearing from the citizens, and really this is 00:57:28.200 --> 00:57:33.880 what the comprehensive plan presents, is that vision from the citizen, ultimately the city, 00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:41.240 and what they would like to see is certain areas where they should be protected. Now that 00:57:41.240 --> 00:57:46.280 overarching document, the comprehensive plan, does inform other plans such as the historic 00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:51.800 preservation plan. And then within that historic preservation plan, think of it as an even lower 00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:59.320 area or lower elevation of planning. And so that's another document that this HLC 00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:06.680 should be very aware of, or I'm sure they are, you are, because it does identify those next areas 00:58:06.680 --> 00:58:13.320 where preservation should occur. So I was going to piggyback on what Ron is saying, is that I'm 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:18.920 actually going to plan a boot camp, I think it's next month, where we're going to go through the 00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:25.480 preservation plan, kind of looking at those key areas of interest that were implemented in 2019 00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:29.560 when it came forward and was passed by city council. So that we can kind of start working 00:58:29.560 --> 00:58:35.240 towards those goals and those action plans as an HLC. So I just wanted to throw that in real quick. 00:58:35.240 --> 00:58:43.160 You have red circles and blue circles. So right, so that's a good question. The red circles are more 00:58:43.160 --> 00:58:49.320 related to centers like commercial employment centers. The blues are more like gateways or 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:55.000 travel centers. So as you look at them, there are areas where travelers would come through or 00:58:55.000 --> 00:59:00.920 citizens would come to the city. And so we've identified areas where it could be marketed 00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:07.000 or it could be branded as an entry or a gateway into the city. So those are the blue circles. 00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:12.680 This is the second map that shows 288 going west from 35. 00:59:12.680 --> 00:59:13.880 Yeah, that's what I saw too. 00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:18.040 So is that actually the contracts are let or is that still? 00:59:19.240 --> 00:59:26.040 You know, when I first joined here, the city, gosh, 17 years ago, I was told that it was going 00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:32.120 to be done in 10 years, right? Well, that was actually 17 years ago. But it is my understanding 00:59:32.120 --> 00:59:38.200 that they're actually in the process of purchasing property and it will be let sometime, you know, 00:59:38.200 --> 00:59:44.760 gosh, in a couple of years. So I mean, you work with the properties and then you got utilities 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:50.600 you got to deal with. And so as soon as those are all set, the actual construction will begin. 00:59:50.600 --> 00:59:56.360 And it's going to start on the north side of the city and work its way south on the west side of 00:59:56.360 --> 01:00:04.760 the airport, ultimately, lining back on to back to I-35W through the whole of the coal and hunter 01:00:04.760 --> 01:00:10.120 master plan community, which they have as part of their master plan. So yeah, that's, yeah, 01:00:10.120 --> 01:00:15.080 that's going to be a loop that hopefully completes that circle. Oh, no, but it's not quite complete. 01:00:15.080 --> 01:00:22.360 What's missing is the part from 35 over to the rest of the south part. Yeah, the south part loop 01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:27.640 is kind of missing, which I don't think will ever happen. There's a lot of development already there. 01:00:27.640 --> 01:00:32.840 I think what we're thinking of what is being thought of is maybe using Hickory Creek as sort 01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:38.280 of that connection, but it's not going to be a thoroughfare freeway like the loop is right now. 01:00:41.080 --> 01:00:46.200 The action plan, we kind of talked about this a little bit already. Obviously, the conference 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:53.480 plan contains a lot of actions. There's a table called the action plan and it lists all of the 01:00:53.480 --> 01:01:00.120 actions that's included in the conference plan. And we just have this table to help us sort of 01:01:00.120 --> 01:01:06.600 evaluate and monitor the implementation of the conference plan. I can tell you that the HLC, 01:01:06.600 --> 01:01:11.000 the Historic Landmark Commission, and I think Mr. Cooper may have references of there are some 01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:17.560 actions here in the plan that kind of goes back to HLC and your responsibility. And that could also 01:01:17.560 --> 01:01:23.560 tie back to the Historic Preservation Plan or maybe some actions that are more, you know, sooner 01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:30.040 than later. So those are things that we hope and I'll work with Garry to bring some of those forward 01:01:30.040 --> 01:01:35.960 and share that with you. But as I looked at the conference plan, I identified 18 references of the 01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:42.840 Historic Landmark Commission as partners in getting those actions implemented. The next three slides 01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:49.480 really quickly is I went through the conference plan and just identified what and how the HLC 01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:54.760 or historic preservation is referenced. And I can tell you that it's referenced in the community 01:01:54.760 --> 01:02:00.600 vision statement, as you can read here on the second bullet. Obviously, in the core of DEN, 01:02:00.600 --> 01:02:05.960 we see established neighborhoods where revitalization and compatible infill development 01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:12.520 contributes to the stable, livable, and historic character that fosters neighborhood pride and 01:02:12.520 --> 01:02:19.400 homeownership. So that is a part of our vision that we want to foster neighborhoods and also 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:25.880 our historic character. Also, the three historic districts are referenced in the conference plan. 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:30.760 Obviously, it's an important historic resource that we have and we want to make sure that we 01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:37.000 identify and continue those efforts in protecting those historic structures within those historic 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:42.200 districts. The preservation plan we already mentioned. And then I listed all the different 01:02:42.200 --> 01:02:47.000 elements or the elements at least that have actions related back to historic preservation. 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:53.240 So I won't go through all of them. I just want to show that there are actions in land use, economic, 01:02:54.040 --> 01:02:59.400 conservation, environment, as well as housing where there's historic preservation actions listed. 01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:06.840 And again, as I mentioned earlier, element four, which is community character and urban design, 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:14.840 has the majority of the historic preservation actions. In fact, it has more policies and actions. 01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:20.600 You see that there's policies identified there in relationship to identifying more historic 01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:27.640 resources, preservation of historic resources, financial incentives, property maintenance, 01:03:27.640 --> 01:03:34.840 historic tourism and urban design. And again, a lot of these higher overarching goals policies 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:41.640 are further implemented through the historic preservation plan. So 01:03:41.640 --> 01:03:48.440 Cameron and I and others looked at the comprehensive plan and the historical preservation. 01:03:48.440 --> 01:03:53.880 There's no conflict there. They're working in sync. And we hope to, again, as Cameron mentioned, 01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:59.560 maybe next month, start to share some of those actions in its part of the historic preservation 01:03:59.560 --> 01:04:05.000 plan to then hopefully have the commission give direction to move forward with some of those 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:14.600 actions. Lastly, I think my last slide is just to share with you all. It was an update just, again, 01:04:14.600 --> 01:04:21.800 adopted in March of this past year. We looked at a lot of different public input. Of course, 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:26.680 with COVID, it was somewhat difficult. But in the end, we were able to have a public open house. 01:04:26.680 --> 01:04:32.120 That's the photo that you see there. And there was a lot of engagement with the community. 01:04:32.120 --> 01:04:39.720 And ultimately, again, we adopted this plan in March of this year. That's it. So just really want 01:04:39.720 --> 01:04:45.240 to provide an overview of the comprehensive plan. And again, touch on the Historic Landmark 01:04:45.240 --> 01:04:51.720 Commission's role in this. And ultimately, in my opinion, and also Cameron's opinion is that the 01:04:51.720 --> 01:04:56.840 historic preservation plan is really where you all should focus. But again, the historic preservation 01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:05.000 plan is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the vision of the city. I hope that makes sense. 01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.000 Well done. That was such a long plan. I thought we were going to be here for three hours. 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:13.560 I wanted to keep it short, but concise as well. Well, that's helpful. Thank you. 01:05:13.560 --> 01:05:18.760 And I failed to mention, I should have put it on there. If you have interest in, 01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:25.400 obviously the comprehensive plan is attached as part of the backup. But if you want, it's also 01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:31.080 on our website. And I can have Cameron send you the link to where that is so that you can easily 01:05:31.080 --> 01:05:41.960 access it and then review it during your leisurely time. Free time. Okay. Thank you. 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:57.800 Okay. The next thing on our work session agenda, HLC 22-058, hold a discussion regarding the 01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:06.920 historic landmark commission project matrix. So the one thing that I wanted to bring forward, 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:11.560 obviously, this is the matrix for you all to work with and add things to in terms of requests. 01:06:11.560 --> 01:06:18.200 But I did add a request for myself is regarding this discussion of the benefits of having, 01:06:18.200 --> 01:06:29.080 or no, sorry, the 2011 West Oak Street in the DDC 2.9.5 that I sent last week regarding confirmation 01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:34.840 of interest in bringing forward a 10-day notice. I only received feedback from three commissioners, 01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:40.760 two were for, one against. So I'm just trying to get confirmation from the rest of the commissioners 01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:45.880 who did not participate in that email, whether or not we need to bring that forward with a 10-day 01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:56.440 notice. So this would be a 10-day notice from the historic preservation officer myself. I'd be 01:06:56.440 --> 01:07:04.120 sending it to the homeowner asking for compliance and fixing up their windows and making sure that, 01:07:04.120 --> 01:07:08.360 you know, removing the boards because currently there is just plywood covering the windows. 01:07:08.360 --> 01:07:14.120 So making sure that they get those windows fixed and that, you know, they're kind of holding up 01:07:14.120 --> 01:07:20.680 the standards of the historic district. And if not, then they would need to come in front of HLC 01:07:20.680 --> 01:07:31.320 for a hearing. I remember the message at the time, but it wasn't clear to me what was wrong, 01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:38.760 what was going on with, they weren't getting it done. So from my understanding, there has been 01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:47.080 plywood in some of these windows. So it was covering the windows. It's been, there's been 01:07:47.080 --> 01:07:54.440 multiple complaints since October. The most recent one was in April. And I guess even the property 01:07:54.440 --> 01:08:00.120 owners nearby have asked if they can even purchase the property so that they can fix it up and make 01:08:00.120 --> 01:08:04.200 sure that it's kind of being held to the certain standards of maintenance within the historic 01:08:04.200 --> 01:08:10.200 district. But currently it's just plywood that's been painted white. It is covering the windows 01:08:10.200 --> 01:08:17.800 themselves. So, and it's a vacant property. Yes, there's a lot of room. So we have no idea if, 01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:22.280 you know, the water is probably still going in, you know, damaging the inside because there was 01:08:22.280 --> 01:08:32.280 broken window panes. So some of the photos and what I talked to the code enforcement officer, 01:08:32.280 --> 01:08:39.000 they said that there was kind of the wooden frames were disintegrating. So, and that there were broken 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:45.800 window frames and that basically the plywood was just put up to kind of help keep it, you know, 01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:50.920 being further damaged from the environment, but it wasn't fully enclosing the area. So who knows what 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:56.760 damage is being done to the inside. Obviously when I emailed you all, it says it, usually it's brought 01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:03.080 forward due to, you know, fear of structural damage. So we could, that could be, you know, 01:09:03.080 --> 01:09:08.360 the issue that's at hand. No one's been inside. And these have, this complaint started in October 01:09:08.360 --> 01:09:13.880 and it's now April or the most recent one was in April and now we're in May and they have still not 01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:19.880 complied. The windows were not up. The panes were broken. That I did not see. But I couldn't see it. 01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:30.680 Yeah. So I guess, um, in the side in the rear is where the front is. It's uglier than, I just didn't 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:36.040 realize it was broken. Yeah. So the window panes are broken. So it's just, that's why I brought it 01:09:36.040 --> 01:09:41.800 to you all. So this could be another step in kind of making sure that, you know, people realize that 01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:45.720 you all are here and that people need to be maintaining their properties as expected within 01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:50.760 the historic district. Any conversation with the owner of this property? Yes. So there has 01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:55.960 been conversations with, from code enforcement with the property owner. Um, he has stated that 01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:01.560 he wanted to fix it up and put his son in there, but he has used that same kind of discussion and 01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:07.240 had that same discussion multiple times, I guess, since October. And that's kind of been his main 01:10:07.240 --> 01:10:11.560 argument is that he, he's going to get there and he's going to fix it up and it's going to go to 01:10:11.560 --> 01:10:16.280 his son. And then it was his mom's home and he doesn't want to give it up. But at the same time, 01:10:16.280 --> 01:10:22.840 he's not necessarily maintained property. So can we do like options? What do we do now? 01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:32.360 So if we have at least, you know, a quorum who votes to have, uh, me do the, uh, 10 day notice, 01:10:32.360 --> 01:10:36.920 then I would tomorrow put together a 10 day notice. Marcella would review it to make sure 01:10:36.920 --> 01:10:41.160 everything's in order legally. And then I would send it to the property owner stating that you 01:10:41.160 --> 01:10:45.400 need, I need a response to hear from you within 10 days. If not, we will be calling you to the HLC 01:10:45.400 --> 01:10:56.040 for public hearing. Okay. And what do we actually do? So you all would be providing a, um, basically, 01:10:56.040 --> 01:11:02.360 I would say, can we just make sure I'm giving you the right information. Um, but Marcella's 01:11:02.360 --> 01:11:07.960 gonna pull it up from, but from what I remember and what I'm understanding is that you all would 01:11:07.960 --> 01:11:13.960 give him direction of what needs to be done. And if he does not comply, then he would have to come 01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:20.840 back with an appeal, which I believe would then go to city council. But I'm going to let Marcella 01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:28.200 confirm that because I don't want to give you all the wrong information. Well, has someone from HLC 01:11:28.200 --> 01:11:34.600 has, uh, not the commission really, but staff, have they gone out and expected to see what's 01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:39.640 needed though? So code enforcement has been up there basically saying, you know, this is a hazard 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:44.680 to the property. It's vacant property. You have broken window panes. You're, um, I guess there was 01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:49.000 also a complaint of multiple animals living under the homes and they had a board up along their 01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:57.160 foundation. I mean, close that because they had, you know, kind of infestation. Um, so that it's 01:11:57.160 --> 01:12:03.240 just been in code enforcement. I've driven by have not gone on the property itself. Um, but if we want 01:12:03.240 --> 01:12:07.560 to move forward, then I can ask, um, the code enforcement officer who's been taking calls 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:13.720 specifically for this property. If I can go out with her and walk the property just to see what 01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:18.360 exactly the issues are. Cause I just have photos currently at the moment. It looked like it improved 01:12:18.360 --> 01:12:24.440 a little bit because it wasn't just basic plywood. It was white plywood, but the broken windows are 01:12:24.440 --> 01:12:30.120 very concerning. Yeah. So basically procedurally what'll happen is they'll give a 10 day notice 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:35.640 letter. Um, and then, yeah, if there doesn't seem to be improvement within those 10 days, 01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:42.680 then we'll hold a public meeting at our next, it would be the June meeting. Yes. Um, to discuss 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:48.760 whether the structure is structurally unsound or an imminent danger of becoming structurally unsound. 01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:53.880 So that gives the homeowner opportunity to give evidence that their remedy up to this point is 01:12:53.880 --> 01:13:00.120 either satisfactory to prevent further decay, or there's not the issue that, you know, the deterioration 01:13:00.120 --> 01:13:04.280 that we're seeing from the outside, maybe it, it looks worse because we don't know what the inside 01:13:04.280 --> 01:13:09.880 looks like. Um, so that meeting, he would present, present evidence to you all. So the burden's on 01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:17.800 him. Yeah. So the burden's on, on him. And, um, ultimately you guys will be making the determination. 01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:23.640 Cameron can bring information as well. If she wants to, there's no real like procedural setup for the 01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:28.920 meeting, but essentially at the end of the meeting, what you'll be asked to is instead of our normal 01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:35.800 three options, you'll have to make a finding that their structure is structurally unsound or in 01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:42.120 danger of becoming structurally unsound. And no valid reason exists as to why they cannot undertake 01:13:42.120 --> 01:13:50.280 the repairs that are needed. Um. So is the assumption that it's unsound unless he could 01:13:50.280 --> 01:13:57.720 prove otherwise? Um, so the, no, the, it's only unsound if you guys make a finding that is unsound. 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:02.360 It's kind of hard. But what would we base it on? Keep you providing evidence. The evidence he 01:14:02.360 --> 01:14:08.040 provides and then if code enforcement provides their evidence as well. Um. What was the long 01:14:08.040 --> 01:14:15.720 term outcome? I, if we do say that. Right. Yeah. So that's the next step. No problem. Um, so if they 01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:24.040 get that notification, then we would provide information on what necessary repairs would need 01:14:24.040 --> 01:14:33.080 to be done. Um, and then yeah, so they have to make those repairs within 90 days. And if not, 01:14:33.080 --> 01:14:41.000 if not, then, um, so it, well, if they don't make the repairs, then it's a code violation, 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:47.000 which is what we talked about earlier today. But if they, there are valid reasons why the owner 01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:53.400 cannot make their repairs, then we would actually go directly to city council. So we would say this 01:14:53.400 --> 01:14:58.920 building is unsafe. This owner isn't able to make the repairs either because of economic hardship 01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:07.320 or, you know, the windows don't, can't be made for 16 weeks or something, which is valid because 01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:11.800 getting windows right now, it takes a really long time. So if there's a reason why, you know, that 01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:17.080 90 day period just isn't going to work, we can, uh, you basically have to go to city council with 01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:24.280 the reasons why they're not going to be able to comply with the 90 day upkeep requirement. Um, 01:15:24.280 --> 01:15:32.920 and then city council will take action. Um, they can, they have a lot more broad powers than we 01:15:32.920 --> 01:15:36.600 do, so they can kind of take whatever action they see fit. That's the way this is drafted, 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:44.280 but essentially we would provide a recommendation to them as to what, why they, why the homeowner, 01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:48.200 if there are valid reasons why they can't make the repairs themselves, and then what recommendations 01:15:48.200 --> 01:15:54.360 we would be bringing to city council as a board. Um, but that's only if you find that there are 01:15:54.360 --> 01:16:02.360 reasons why the owner cannot make the necessary repairs. Um, and then if they don't agree with 01:16:02.360 --> 01:16:08.040 our ruling, they can appeal within 60 days to the city council. I mean, I just looked up Denton 01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:14.600 CAD to find out the ownership status, right? I mean, they list that as their address for the, the, the, the owner. 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:20.440 Correct. Why do you say that nobody lives there? They don't. We know that they, uh, code enforcement 01:16:20.440 --> 01:16:25.400 didn't give me too much information, but we do know the gentleman lives in Southridge neighborhood. 01:16:25.400 --> 01:16:35.560 Okay, now years ago when I was on the affordable housing, well, you were there. We had access to 01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:43.560 some CVG funds to use in situations to, for people, for grants to individuals to do something. 01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:49.960 So that might be something that we would direct city council to review and see if there are, 01:16:49.960 --> 01:16:54.920 yeah, to see if there are a funding source where the city could potentially sponsor. I'm not sure, 01:16:54.920 --> 01:17:00.120 I'm not sure if it's available for rental properties. A rental. Okay. I mean, well, 01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:06.040 I don't know if this wasn't a rental. Well, it's not his home. Correct. It's not his home and he'd 01:17:06.040 --> 01:17:12.440 be giving it. I, I don't know how rental property is necessarily defined because as of what I know 01:17:12.440 --> 01:17:16.200 right now, he would own the property and his son would just live there. I don't think he would 01:17:16.200 --> 01:17:24.840 necessarily be renting it from. Well, but he would not be. Yes. I don't think, but there might be, 01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:29.720 yeah. So, but at the end of the day, it's like not really within our purview necessarily to know if 01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:35.560 there's funding sources available. It would be if city council wanted to direct staff to investigate 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:42.040 funding or if there's, um, if they are eligible for either the homeowner improvement program or 01:17:42.040 --> 01:17:51.640 CBGP funds. Is it true that they could ultimately put the house up for sale? Yes. Yes. Ultimately, 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:57.080 if you don't do anything, it gets listed and sold. Okay. That was what I was trying to figure out. 01:17:57.080 --> 01:18:03.560 Okay. That's what will happen to it. If, if they don't come forward is so we gotta be careful that 01:18:03.560 --> 01:18:09.880 we do it right. Right. Now at this point, we're info information gathering. Come talk to us, 01:18:09.880 --> 01:18:15.480 help us. We'll see what we can do. And you're at, so what you're asking us is for a motion 01:18:15.480 --> 01:18:22.600 or at least a vote to authorize you to send a 10 day letter to get him to our, him or her, 01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:32.520 to our genius. So the way the ordinance is drafted and it says the HLC may require the HPO to send 01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:38.200 the letter. So we would need an action of the HLC, which would require at least four of you. 01:18:38.200 --> 01:18:43.480 Would it be a summons? I mean, is the person required to show? No, no, no. Cause they, um, 01:18:43.480 --> 01:18:46.760 there's actually provisions that they don't show up. We send them a letter as to what our 01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:53.080 recommendations are. Um, so they're not required to come. Um, but it is kind of a way to put them 01:18:53.080 --> 01:18:58.120 on notice that we need more information. I think particularly in this, you correct me if I'm wrong, 01:18:58.120 --> 01:19:02.600 cause we're not able to see inside the home. So maybe he's able to bring pictures of inside 01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:08.920 each of the windows and the wall looks fine. There's no evidence of damage from the windows 01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:15.080 and maybe that impacts y'all's review of the concern. So I think it's, it is still at the 10 01:19:15.080 --> 01:19:21.880 day notice. It is that fact finding stage. And we can always say like, if he comes and it doesn't 01:19:21.880 --> 01:19:25.880 seem like it's as bad as it looks from the outside, then we can just say, you know, 01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:32.360 fix it when you can, but there's no requirement to meet that 90 day. You don't have to find it. 01:19:32.360 --> 01:19:36.360 So we're just assuming what's going on on the inside, right? 01:19:36.360 --> 01:19:41.080 Well, yeah. And if he doesn't, if he chooses not to show up, we can still take the same 01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:45.640 action. Like you can decide as a majority, there's not enough information to show that it's 01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:52.360 correct. Right. So we just have code enforcement and all the different complaints that have come 01:19:52.360 --> 01:19:57.160 in. We have their photographs and then what we have is basically all our information is from 01:19:57.160 --> 01:20:01.320 code enforcement and the neighbors who are, and if he doesn't show them when that's our information, 01:20:01.320 --> 01:20:05.160 right? Correct. Yes. That'd be your evidence. So there's not a report, if you will, from code 01:20:05.160 --> 01:20:13.240 enforcement. So I can ask them for a report, you know, that I can provide once, you know, 01:20:13.240 --> 01:20:17.960 that can be prior. So if you guys do not want to decide on this until a report is actually given 01:20:17.960 --> 01:20:24.760 from code enforcement, we can do it that way and I can just present it in June. I wasn't asking for 01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:33.560 it to be delayed. Okay. Okay. So, but so yes, so code enforcement can put together, you know, 01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:38.280 a packet of information that they have, the code, the complaints that they've received, 01:20:38.280 --> 01:20:45.080 and then I can send that to you all, you know, during the 10 day process as well. Because I've 01:20:45.080 --> 01:20:49.240 received some of that information, as I said, that I shared with you all, but I haven't asked for a 01:20:49.240 --> 01:20:55.000 formal report, but I can ask for that. And I will say if we decide to take this action today, unless 01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:01.160 you all choose to have an emergency meeting, they would have more than 10 days to provide information 01:21:01.160 --> 01:21:06.040 because our next meeting isn't scheduled until, I believe it's June 13th. So we can't make that 01:21:06.040 --> 01:21:12.920 decision now because it's not part of the agenda, right? Right. Well, you can direct her to issue 01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:16.600 the notice, but we can't decide if we want to take an emergency meeting or anything like that. 01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:26.760 Correct. So if they come to you, the three things you said we would be choosing between were finding 01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:36.920 that it was in danger and it was falling apart and, or that it could be, or one or the other. 01:21:36.920 --> 01:21:44.120 So the finding is whether the structure is structurally unsound or an imminent 01:21:44.120 --> 01:21:47.160 danger of becoming structurally unsound. Okay, that's one option. 01:21:47.160 --> 01:21:54.280 Those are the, or not. Oh, I see. Oh, oh. So you find that it is one of those two things. 01:21:54.280 --> 01:22:01.480 Or you don't make a finding. Okay. Or we postpone it to another agenda or we postpone it indefinitely 01:22:01.480 --> 01:22:08.360 because I think we have the right to postpone anything you bring. Well, the question is, how do 01:22:08.360 --> 01:22:13.480 we back away if we get there? You just wouldn't make a finding and then it would end. Yes, 01:22:13.480 --> 01:22:17.240 correct. And then it would be done. And I have a question, Cameron, you can send us that 10-day 01:22:17.240 --> 01:22:25.400 letter if we agree that it shouldn't be issued. Yes. Thank you. This is just more of an overall 01:22:25.400 --> 01:22:32.680 thing. I'm curious, how is it that we can have, make a decision as the board to request staff to 01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:39.880 send this letter outside of an agenda item? Because it was on the matrix. Okay, so as long as it's, 01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:43.960 okay. Yeah. Yeah. So basically- We're not making a finding. Yeah, we're not making a finding. 01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:49.000 It's more of just confirming the interest and sending a 10-day notice. Okay. Yeah. So we wouldn't 01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:53.560 put anything on the agenda like this if it were like a full COA or like something that requires 01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:57.720 like a public hearing or more of an open meeting. Right. But because this is just directing 01:22:57.720 --> 01:23:04.200 Cameron to make a decision, we're just being extra safe to put it on the matrix because 01:23:04.200 --> 01:23:07.800 you never know. But technically- No, that's why this one has to know. I don't know of any- 01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:15.720 I may have voted as a way I would change my vote probably based on new information from this. Okay. 01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:22.360 But because it's not a motion, I don't think we need a second. I think we can go straight to a vote. 01:23:22.360 --> 01:23:25.080 Yeah, we just need, you know, whoever's interested. Okay. So the only thing in the 01:23:25.080 --> 01:23:33.240 paper of Cameron issuing now a 10-day notice indicate by raising your hand unless you count them. 01:23:36.200 --> 01:23:43.640 So you have five and five. Okay. So then I will put together the 10-day notice. I'll send it to 01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:47.960 you all so you can read it prior to me sending it out. And I will also make sure that I get a 01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:53.240 report from code enforcement with all that information. Yes. Who is the property owner? 01:23:53.240 --> 01:23:58.520 His name is Thibodeau. He's owned this house according to the deed since 2010. 01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:05.160 Oh my goodness. It's on here. I mean, Denton Cat tells me he's had it since 2010. He lives on a 01:24:05.160 --> 01:24:09.160 ridge whatever crest circle in Southridge. It's not the fancy part of Southridge, but. 01:24:09.160 --> 01:24:19.240 What is the address? Do we know? 2011 is where he lived. Oh, it's 1501 ridge crest circle. 01:24:19.240 --> 01:24:28.120 Okay. So I might have a conflict, although I don't think so. They bought that house from my parents 01:24:28.120 --> 01:24:40.280 in 1984. 1501. Oh, yeah. The mom and dad lived there for. So am I conflicted? I don't think so, 01:24:40.280 --> 01:24:44.280 but I don't know. We can't make a determination if you're conflicted or not. You're actually not. 01:24:44.280 --> 01:24:49.160 Okay, I was like, I'm going to. I think you have no relationship to them, Roy. No, I did not. 01:24:54.840 --> 01:25:01.640 Also, I'm actually preempted from making a determination. So the answer is it depends. 01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:13.480 Okay, so all right. I believe we need a motion to adjourn. Well, is there anything else on the 01:25:13.480 --> 01:25:19.480 major? I don't think so. I motion to adjourn. Second. Those in favor? We're out of here. 01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:21.160 They're out of here. Thank you very much.