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 We haven't started yet, I'm just going to wait.

2
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 Okay, well taking note of a quorum, we will open the agenda of the Historic Landmark Commission,

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 our regularly scheduled May meeting.

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 You guys will stand with me and we'll recite the U.S. Pledge and the Texas Pledge of Allegiance.

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 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

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 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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 Honored by the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

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 Thank you.

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00:00:53,560 --> 00:01:01,640
 First up, as an item for consideration, is the approval of the April 11th, 2022 minutes.

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 If they've all been circulated, we have any corrections or suggestions or comments?

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 I didn't kind of look at it in a real close, so I need a motion.

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 We have a motion to approve and a second.

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 All those in favor say aye.

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 Raise your hand, that's everybody, it's unanimous.

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 Second item on the agenda is the election of a chair and vice chair for the Historic

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 Landmark Commission.

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 Now then, I believe what we normally do is we ask for volunteers as opposed to nominations,

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 isn't that correct, and as you guys know, I've done this for a while, two years.

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 And you've done it so well.

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 No, no, no.

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 We just love it.

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 I'm not nominating you, right?

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 I don't think it's...

24
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 Okay, but let's get real about one thing.

25
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 Can we just open the floor for discussion?

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 That's okay.

27
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,440
 Okay, so I will be...

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 I'm finishing my sixth year on this committee.

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 I've been extended for one more year until August.

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 I probably won't be able to stay August of 2023, a year from this August.

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 Okay, now I probably will be moving out of the city of Denton in about a year, so I won't

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 make it to August of 2023.

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 Oh, that's fine.

34
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 We'll find somebody to finish out.

35
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 Okay, but if you recall, who's the lady that was the chair right before me?

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 Yeah, I know you're talking about Elizabeth.

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 No, no, no, no.

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 She was Perky, the teacher, history teacher.

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 So anyway, the only thing I should suggest is in advance, and because Mary, you've chaired

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 probably five or six of these as well, that we look at getting someone ahead of, so that

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 you have some months because the easiest thing as a chair is to have somebody that is watching

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 and throwing softballs, motions, and this to move the meetings along, and so anyway.

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 Do we have anybody with...

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 So having said all that, if you guys...

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 I'm nominating, and I know you don't take nominators.

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 Yeah, but think about the fact that, because we've got a year plus I'm going to be around,

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 how long, when do you want someone else to do this?

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 Because it's not my committee.

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 Right, yes, for now it is.

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00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:49,240
 Okay, I will agree, assuming we have votes.

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 All those in favor, and I don't think I can vote.

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 Raise your hand.

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 Wow, that's...

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 Okay, so then I will do it with the caveat that at some point prior to my departure,

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 six months or something, I will resign, and we'll have another election.

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 That's awesome.

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 Everybody okay with that?

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 Yes.

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 Now we need a vice chair, which Mary has been doing, and...

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 Eventually I will time off, so you know, I am not in the far vote behind you, Roy.

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 But I think we get off the same day.

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 Yeah, exactly.

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 So I mean, you know, it's, you know, if anybody would like to volunteer...

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 If I want to volunteer to serve as the vice chair.

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 Yeah.

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 Wow, we're just not...

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 Okay, we can do it like the Army, and I can get a half vote in favor.

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 Yeah.

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 No, but I'm fine, because it's working really well right now.

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 I mean, I don't mind states of the duration, I just want...

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 All those in favor, raise your hand.

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 Okay, so there you go, we had an election.

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 Okay.

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 Now, have we violated any civic statutes along the way?

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 It's my fellow's job to tell you.

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 Okay, are we?

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 Yes, I better be careful.

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 Okay, so the minutes are signed.

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 Thank you.

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 I didn't use my name.

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 You know, I never signed my name, and she never catches it.

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 She thought me it made me sign, I'm just telling you, when you weren't here.

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 Okay, so the next...

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 All right, so that closes the public part of our meeting.

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 Next, we open the work session part, and I will turn...

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 It's HLC 22057.

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 Receive a report and hold discussion regarding

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 enforcement of the debt development code in relation to the HLC's powers and duties.

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 And for that, and how about for the rest of the agenda,

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 I'll turn it over to Ms. Cameron.

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 Oh, well, thank you, Chair.

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 So tonight, me and Stephanie...

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 Sorry, Stephanie.

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 What's it for you?

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 Oh, Barry.

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 Barry.

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 I came in here with an email.

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 I'm sorry, I was just...

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00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,520
 Exactly, it's a little different.

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 Join the club, the alternative is not possible.

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 Well, they found somebody else to be on here.

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 I hear they're looking at your stuff.

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 We will be discussing the debt and development code

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 and kind of the actions that you all can take as HLC

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 if historic property owners kind of violate the different

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 procedures that we're supposed to be taking within that development code.

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 So Stephanie, if you want to start off.

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 Would you like me to start off?

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 I'm fine.

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 Mine's very brief regarding the code enforcement.

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 You can start, and then I'll explain municipal prosecution,

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 how we'd file a case, who would file a case, and all of this.

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 So we don't have a presentation, it's more just a discussion.

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 Oh, that's kind of cool.

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 That's even better.

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 Yes, yes.

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 So I'm going to read off my page, so I make sure I get everything out there.

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 So building safety can issue a stop work order and work without permit fee

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 is added to a contractor's responsibility.

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 So for residential, usually the first time is waived.

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 The first offense for commercial and second offense for residential is $250

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 work without permit fee assessed.

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 After that, if more work is done without permits,

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 the fee is three times the permit fee plus $500.

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 It will change based off of what the work is being done.

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 Okay, and so is that the eighth COA as a permit considered a permanent clause?

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 So this is regarding, no, so this is a COA is not considered.

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 So this is after it leaves here and or whatever they do and they don't get a permit from PNG.

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 For if they don't get a building permit in general, so any building permit.

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 So if they don't get a fence permit and they were required to get a fence permit

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 and it was an historic district, then those violations would be held against them.

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 Say they're changing windows, they didn't get a window permit,

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 then that would be flagged for, okay, well, they also didn't get a COA.

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 So then that would bring them back through that process.

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 I guess I'm still kind of confused on the order with which they should do it.

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 They should come to us first and then they get their permit.

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 Correct, yes.

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 But if they get the, what if they go to planning and they will somehow get a permit, I mean.

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 So if they were getting a permit, it would be flagged in our community services.

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 So we've just went through, back in January, after we've had some issues in the past,

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 went through our community development software, came back with a bunch of,

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 when you get into your community development system, it alerts you,

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 saying there's restrictions on this property.

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 So that alerts right when someone puts that property address in.

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 So that's where this works, okay.

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 Yes, correct.

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 So this is basically, if you're at the end of the phase,

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 they haven't gotten the building permit, they haven't gotten the COA,

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 they've already just started doing work,

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 then this is where these violations and these charges would be coming in.

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 Are these charges different in the historic district than in the rest of the city?

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 No, they're not.

153
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 Oh, yeah, just curious.

154
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 Okay, so you guys know, a neighbor tells us their windows have been replaced at

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 1313 West Oak Street, fake address.

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 Right.

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 And then they go out there and all the windows are gone,

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 they're all now something, not code windows.

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 So the process is you guys investigate that drive out there and tell them

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 they have to get something after the fact.

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 You might walk us through, you've now gotten a call,

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 the windows have been in more than two months.

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 And the neighbor calls and says, hey, they didn't do this right.

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 Walk us through the process from there to they get a fine, they go to court.

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 What happens?

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 So something that's done after the fact, they will be fine from our perspective.

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 They can get a building permit fee, I believe.

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 But from the perspective, it's already done.

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 So for instance, we had that last project that had already been done,

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 but they did have a building permit.

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 So they did not include any fees from us because as part of our procedures

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 or powers and duties within the DDC, HLC does not have that jurisdiction to charge anyone.

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 That all has to go through the building department.

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 So if it's already been in place for two months,

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 from my understanding, I don't think we can do anything.

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 From a code enforcement.

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 Correct.

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 So there's two separate processes where we're talking.

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 Stephanie is going to go through the after the fact kind of municipal prosecution piece,

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 which can be done whenever there is a potential violation

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 and she'll go through what those sorts of obligations are.

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 Code enforcement's work is kind of prior to that

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 when they're making sure people are doing their work with a permit correctly.

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 And the COA process would come in before the permit was issued.

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 So there's a step in our permit issuing software

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 that says this flags Cameron, this is historic property,

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 and should have a COA prior to getting a permit for whatever the work is.

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 But in this instance, the phone rings, it's in, it's done.

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 They're finished, the contact record's gone.

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 What do you guys do about that?

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 Do you just, oh well.

192
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 Yeah, overnight.

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 Say they worked on a weekend, there's no code enforcement out,

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 and they pulled all the windows, slapped the new ones,

195
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 and there's just a new front door.

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 Now what do you do?

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 They've done it, it's done, the old door is gone.

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 So I kind of know something about this.

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 Just, I mean, from, unfortunately, prior to the experience,

200
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 I had somebody call me recently where they had this,

201
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 and planning zoning said retroactive to get a permit.

202
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 And, you know, in that way, and then they'll come out and inspect it and everything.

203
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,320
 And that way they can see if it was all done correctly as to,

204
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 you know, what was supposed to be done.

205
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 And if not, I'm not sure what happens if it's not,

206
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 but I assume they'll tell them to redo it or do it correctly.

207
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:09,400
 But it, when you say correctly,

208
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,920
 do you mean just according to the normal building codes?

209
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 Whatever code, or whatever the building inspection people want it to be.

210
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,160
 Not necessarily.

211
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,160
 Well, I assume when something comes in, they're looking to get a permit,

212
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,160
 and you said now there's procedures to flag it.

213
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,360
 Yes, correct.

214
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,880
 And they've got to get it from here first.

215
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,560
 And so I would assume even if it's after the fact,

216
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,480
 they've still got to get our COA.

217
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,280
 Just like they, I mean, before they were trying to get our COA.

218
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,520
 Right. So they would still have to come get the COA.

219
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,040
 They would still have to come through HLC.

220
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,760
 And you would still have to make those votes of approval, approval of conditions or deny.

221
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,800
 Where likely in that instance, if they've already done it,

222
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,800
 you know, there's been discussion in the past saying,

223
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,880
 oh, okay, well, we're going to deny it just to inform them that this is not okay.

224
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,080
 This is not the process.

225
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,560
 But that is really only the power and duty that HLC has at that point.

226
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,680
 But that would prevent the permit from going through at that point, wouldn't it?

227
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:07,160
 If the works are already done, the permit, yes, the permit wouldn't be approved,

228
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,480
 but there's no instance where they would make them

229
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,720
 necessarily remove it if it was done correctly.

230
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:12,760
 Right.

231
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,120
 So, I mean, again, it comes back to my central discussion, Cameron,

232
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,560
 which is our purpose is kind of diluted by the fact that really,

233
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,560
 you know, as a homeowner in the historic district,

234
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:25,640
 I can go do what I want and say, I don't care.

235
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,760
 Well, that's where, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

236
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:34,680
 So, let's say a case like that, they didn't get a permit.

237
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:39,000
 They, actually a question here, they didn't get a permit.

238
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,640
 It didn't, it doesn't comply with the requirements for the historic landmark neighborhood.

239
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,920
 And so you could file a case for the violation.

240
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:55,480
 And this is where it gets tricky about how much was the door.

241
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,640
 So, as a prosecutor, I know I really want the door to comply with what

242
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,080
 the house is supposed to look like.

243
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:07,240
 So, I would ask the judge to assess the maximum fine, which is $500 plus 81,

244
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:12,760
 and say, I'll dismiss this case if you get your door and comply with what it should have been.

245
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:19,000
 If the door was $2,000, they might say, I'll pay the 581, or I want a jury trial.

246
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:24,200
 If the door was $600, $700, they might comply.

247
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,200
 So, because you can only charge, it's a one-time offense, right?

248
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,640
 So, I can only charge one time.

249
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:38,760
 So, that's where we're not a civil court for getting restitution.

250
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,120
 But as a prosecutor, I can do an interest of justice dismissal.

251
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,320
 And if I can get a repair or compliance, then I'll dismiss it.

252
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:54,360
 So, you look at what is their cost to go back and make it compliant versus the fine.

253
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,320
 I think we had some tree cases where they chopped down a bunch of trees,

254
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,840
 business, in violation of the tree ordinance.

255
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,440
 And they were like, tell us how much to pay.

256
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,720
 Because it was not worth it to them.

257
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,440
 So, that's where you have to look at what is the change.

258
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:18,680
 I feel like we've only had one prosecution for a historic violation, and it was a front

259
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,920
 porch that was done out of the character of the neighborhood, maybe.

260
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,400
 >> Was that the one on the- >> Years ago, and there might have even

261
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,520
 been an argument about whether it was out of the character of the neighborhood.

262
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:31,320
 Does that sound right?

263
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,520
 >> I'm not sure.

264
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,800
 >> It would have been years ago.

265
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,840
 >> At least in your full while, I didn't hear about that.

266
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,120
 >> Years ago, I didn't hear about that.

267
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,520
 >> Anyhow, so that gives you an idea.

268
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:50,600
 So, the fine is helpful if the correction is not super expensive.

269
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,120
 >> Sure, okay.

270
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,280
 >> If the correction is $2,000, and I say I'll dismiss that.

271
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,160
 Although, on the other hand, if they're good for the fine,

272
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,440
 I mean that $581 can go to the correction.

273
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,440
 >> I'm a little curious that because on commercial, you have to have a COA to be in there.

274
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:14,360
 Okay, on residential, you have to have an inspection and stuff before you do that.

275
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,000
 So if someone breaches the code, I'm a little surprised the city just said turn off the juice.

276
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,800
 Cuz we all gotta buy electricity from you guys.

277
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,040
 If you're non-compliant, fine, enjoy yourself.

278
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,800
 I'm just curious, should you say the fines are not efficient,

279
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,760
 but if they can't turn on the electricity, they'll show up.

280
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:38,680
 >> I think counsel has actually made it a policy of the city not to have electricity turnoffs.

281
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,600
 >> There's some liability issues there, yeah.

282
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,600
 >> Well, and I'm not really advocating for that.

283
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,320
 I'm just surprised because in this instance,

284
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,720
 you think the city has a lot of ability to bring people into code compliance.

285
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,400
 And the reality is you're pretty limited.

286
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,800
 >> So what you're looking for there, and I'm sorry.

287
00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,920
 You're looking for some type of, as far as criminal goes,

288
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,520
 it's usually either jail or fine or some combination of the two.

289
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,560
 You can't really assess anything outside of that as far.

290
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,320
 You can't say, well, your criminal penalty is gonna be come paint my house.

291
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,400
 >> No, no, no, not like that.

292
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,880
 They just take and ignore you.

293
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:23,720
 >> Well, having lived in the storage district for a long time, we see this time and time again.

294
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,280
 People do things and tear out entire fronts.

295
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,480
 They all change the color.

296
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,680
 They all do all kinds of things without any permission, and then they come and go,

297
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,640
 okay, let me go to confession and get absolved by saying three Hail Marys.

298
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,960
 I mean, that's what it really winds up seeming.

299
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,440
 And they know, they just don't care.

300
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,920
 So I find that we're doing good.

301
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:43,960
 I'd rather have them stop.

302
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,640
 I like Cameron's postcard a lot.

303
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,560
 But I do get the feeling that they're gonna do what they wanna do anyway.

304
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,920
 >> Well, what happens if they decide they don't wanna be in the district anymore?

305
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,000
 They already own this property and they're living there.

306
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,880
 >> So yeah, that's a different question.

307
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,440
 That's off our topic for today.

308
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:03,480
 >> Wow, that's good.

309
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,800
 >> That's off our topic for today.

310
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,000
 So that's something- >> I have a question.

311
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,000
 If somebody does this repeatedly, is it enhanceable?

312
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,800
 >> No, it's not written that way.

313
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,440
 I did have, Cameron, I did have a question.

314
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,560
 Something you brought up.

315
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,160
 So they don't get a permit at all?

316
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,040
 >> Correct.

317
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:20,920
 >> It's residential.

318
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,320
 They were supposed to get a permit to put a new front door on?

319
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,320
 Would they have to?

320
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,280
 >> Is it?

321
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:26,920
 Yes.

322
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:27,720
 >> Okay, yes.

323
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,920
 >> So they would be required to- >> So there'd be two issues.

324
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,440
 They put a front door on that doesn't comply with the character of the neighborhood.

325
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:34,920
 >> Correct.

326
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,200
 >> And they didn't get a permit at all.

327
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:36,600
 >> Correct.

328
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:44,840
 >> So building planning would tell them, well, you can go get a permit after the fact.

329
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,120
 >> Yes.

330
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,320
 >> So could y'all not also tell them?

331
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,040
 And we're gonna file it.

332
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:57,160
 We're gonna file on you for not having a permit at all, and you need to go get a permit.

333
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,920
 And then we could, and then I'm gonna file a second case.

334
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,080
 I mean, I'd actually be doing both for violating.

335
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,320
 So you'd have the no permit at all and historic plan.

336
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,880
 So it'd be two violations, which would be $1,000 plus.

337
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,320
 You should have same file two cases offer to dismiss them both.

338
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,960
 >> Two requirements, yes.

339
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:26,520
 >> So there are ways and it's like you said, how much did it cost to redo?

340
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,120
 How much does it cost to repaint?

341
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:29,240
 How much are the fines worth?

342
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,760
 How much is it worth for them to be like, I'll pay the full fines.

343
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,360
 >> Can I ask a question?

344
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:38,280
 It's not necessarily related to historic district, but just in general, in order to apply.

345
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,800
 Let's say somebody decides to convert their garage to a part of their house,

346
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,000
 or add a small addition and they don't get it permitted.

347
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,520
 What does the city do about that?

348
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,320
 >> Same sort of situation because the fee still applies.

349
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,880
 So we would require them to get a permit, right?

350
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,280
 And if they choose not to, actually we'll prosecute if we choose to.

351
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,880
 But we actually would like for them to inspect, ensure that they were done properly

352
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,320
 so that there would be no life safety.

353
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,120
 >> Yeah, because I've seen like people list where they have

354
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,360
 unpermitted addition that I'm thinking of.

355
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,720
 >> But if it does comply with all codes, building codes.

356
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:21,160
 >> And that's why you guys have seen people come after the fact in some cases when it

357
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,240
 was discovered, either they didn't have a permit or the system wasn't set up to flag

358
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,520
 historic homes yet.

359
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,600
 We'll sometimes have them come back after as well to talk to you all and kind of get

360
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:36,120
 the experience of going in here, understanding that next time they need to come back beforehand.

361
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:40,280
 So it at least gives them an experience of what the process should look like,

362
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,360
 even if it was done out of sequence.

363
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:48,120
 But I also, I just want to remind everyone, we do have our ad hoc committee who's actively

364
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,640
 looking at the code the way it exists right now.

365
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,920
 But, you know, we as city staff are all limited by what the code allows.

366
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:02,840
 And if there is no, if sometimes the answer is the code doesn't let us do it.

367
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,120
 And that's frustrating.

368
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:05,880
 I know that's the worst answer for me to give.

369
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,240
 It's not helpful.

370
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,720
 But that's sometimes the only answer we can give you is that the way the code is written,

371
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,720
 there isn't another fine or there isn't another penalty that might be great enough

372
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,280
 to encourage people to actually do the work correctly.

373
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,680
 But that's something that kind of our ad hoc committee can look at.

374
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,080
 I think that's why I'm glad we're having this discussion now before we kind of decided

375
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,920
 what direction you guys want to take for any amendments you want to make.

376
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,360
 Because now you can kind of understand from both what building enforcement can do,

377
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,120
 which is what Cameron just presented on,

378
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,920
 and then how the municipal prosecution process looks like.

379
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,960
 Because that's really the only two routes that exist right now for violations of the code.

380
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,920
 And so that's what we wanted to bring you all up to speed on.

381
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,240
 And then as you know, the ad hoc committee can discuss maybe additional routes you want to take

382
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,560
 and reach out to me and Cameron and see if you want to find other cities.

383
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,160
 They do things differently or the same.

384
00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:01,080
 But there's really, we're very limited by what our current procedures allow.

385
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,280
 So we're going to do better.

386
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,560
 We're going to do better.

387
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,920
 Well, yes, we got to do better within the code.

388
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,720
 I actually had an issue that would be helpful if some of y'all's come up,

389
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,080
 and it's not fixed in code enforcement.

390
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,960
 So it's an offense to build a fence without a permit, right?

391
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,560
 Yes, you need a permit.

392
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,080
 So you put it up, you don't have a permit, you take it, you pay it in full.

393
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,640
 It's a one-time offense, right?

394
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,200
 Yeah.

395
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,240
 And so somebody, so then what?

396
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:31,720
 Nothing.

397
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,320
 So if we wrote that, and that's not y'all's deal, but if that section was written,

398
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,200
 it shall be an offense to maintain a fence that was erected without a permit each day,

399
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,880
 it shall be a shepherd offense.

400
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:50,360
 That's the way, and my defense attorney over here is thinking, "How do I get around that?"

401
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,800
 What I'm worried about is all of a sudden,

402
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,400
 somebody coming back a year and a half later will be like,

403
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,480
 "Well, where did he get you for the last year and a half you didn't have a permit?"

404
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,560
 X amount of dollars a day, that could be...

405
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,720
 But, and somebody could argue you're just trying to get around double jeopardy.

406
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,720
 It was the one time I put it up on one day.

407
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,960
 But that's the issue.

408
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,120
 That's the issue if paying the fine is worth it.

409
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,800
 It happens on traffic accidents.

410
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,560
 I mean, we are not a civil court,

411
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,400
 but if somebody deems your back of your bumper and they didn't have insurance

412
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,400
 and it's a $250, what?

413
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,640
 Card pairs 250, but let's go with it.

414
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:33,480
 You know, they can bang it out for 250 and my victim, like I just,

415
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,680
 I don't have any money.

416
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,880
 It's a good car though.

417
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:36,440
 I want them.

418
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,320
 And I can say, "I'll dismiss your $250 ticket if you just pay the restitution."

419
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,960
 But if they crush the back end of your car and it's 3000 bucks, what?

420
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,560
 "I'll dismiss your $200 ticket if you pay the $3000."

421
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,920
 So you see what I'm saying?

422
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,920
 That's where these cases get into.

423
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,280
 Is it a huge change?

424
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,840
 How expensive is the change they're going to weigh?

425
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,080
 It's a garage conversion that costs a lot of money.

426
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480
 It's a front door, depends on the front door.

427
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,280
 And certainly that's more doable.

428
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,880
 And I think it is a tough issue.

429
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,480
 It's just that it would be nice to not have to be discussing this all together.

430
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,320
 You know, I mean, I like your postcards.

431
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,600
 I think you have to send them like every month to keep people aware

432
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,800
 that they need to do stuff.

433
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,480
 So I have two questions.

434
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:29,080
 One, has anybody ever come and asked retroactively for a COA?

435
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,560
 Has the same person ever had that happen once anybody's aware of?

436
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,840
 Not that since I've been here, I've never had that happen.

437
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,600
 But they've never come back for anything else either.

438
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,600
 One guy came for two things, the guy that did the mural.

439
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,800
 One guy came with two potential oopsies.

440
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:51,080
 He said no and the city council overruled us and left him alone.

441
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,200
 Well, I guess my question is...

442
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:58,200
 And that guy was on the HLC.

443
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,240
 He knows.

444
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,040
 No, he knows.

445
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,520
 He knows.

446
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,600
 And he didn't even ask.

447
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,080
 Yeah, it's hard to say, you know, yeah.

448
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,840
 Knowledge is power.

449
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,680
 Yeah, seriously.

450
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:17,080
 So, yeah, so if it's an issue of somebody coming back over and over,

451
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,640
 it sounds like more than anything else that people just don't know.

452
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,160
 And they don't do it again after that first time

453
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,640
 because they know the procedures at that point.

454
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,040
 And it sounds like there's safeguards in place now

455
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,320
 to prevent that from happening.

456
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,320
 Like it'll be flagged for that sort of thing.

457
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,720
 I guess the only real loophole is if somebody doesn't get a permit at all,

458
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,240
 then they're bypassing HLC too.

459
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:37,960
 Right.

460
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,840
 And, I mean, it's going to be the same issues that, you know,

461
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,880
 non-permits are going to have all over the place

462
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,080
 that don't have anything to do with HLC.

463
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,960
 What was that house on Avenue C, was it, or Malone?

464
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,040
 Where the guy just took the whole front off of it

465
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,560
 and then claimed ignorance.

466
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,040
 It was about six, eight months ago.

467
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,800
 And, you know, we could maybe approach it from a positive standpoint

468
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,120
 because remember we talked about last time the tax exemption, right?

469
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:08,280
 And if we did a public information thing that said,

470
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,840
 hey, we can cut your taxes in half and come to our informal thing,

471
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,080
 spend whatever and you get a decrease.

472
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,440
 And by the way, here are the rules.

473
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,080
 In other words, because our job at the end of the day

474
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,480
 isn't to be punitive to the people in our districts,

475
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,080
 but rather to help them comply.

476
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,840
 That's ultimately what we're supposed to do.

477
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,040
 And that works both ways.

478
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,440
 At that point, because if somebody is violating,

479
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,400
 we could take that into consideration, I assume,

480
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,040
 with their deduction as well.

481
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,600
 Yeah, because if the work wasn't done appropriately.

482
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,520
 Obviously, if the work is not done appropriately

483
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,600
 and it comes in front of HLC, you all can state that it's denied

484
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,960
 and then it would end up going to city council

485
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,040
 and stated why it was a denial.

486
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,560
 And usually in the past, they've voted which way HLC votes.

487
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,640
 So the more people we can get on board with getting the deduction,

488
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,920
 the more teeth that we have.

489
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,720
 It's just information because a lot of people, that's a hook.

490
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,080
 I can cut your taxes in half.

491
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,760
 You're already spending the money, right?

492
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,320
 Probably over the course of a decade, you're going to have spent 10 grand, right?

493
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,800
 So you get a whole decade's worth of 50% of the city taxes.

494
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,160
 Well, I was about to state, so I'm glad you stated this right,

495
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,040
 but I was supposed to say education at this point is very key.

496
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,600
 It's really putting a face to a name of who the Historic Landmark Commission is.

497
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,880
 For instance, I had a gentleman come in today.

498
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,400
 He was looking to do something to the interior of one of the historic buildings.

499
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,400
 And he goes, I was told by all my neighbors, I have to go get the COA.

500
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,800
 I did not do anything until I talked to you.

501
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,440
 I told you, and I was like, that is great.

502
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,600
 I was like, you're not actually touching the exterior.

503
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,120
 So you don't need to come to me for a COA.

504
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,440
 But I was like, thank you so much for coming in.

505
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,280
 I was like, this is exactly what we need.

506
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,800
 I was like, if someone else has a question for you on the square

507
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,120
 and you're touching the exterior, definitely send it my way.

508
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:00,840
 The more eyes we have out there, the better.

509
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,040
 And he was like, thank you so much.

510
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,840
 So that's just word of mouth, even.

511
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,840
 Well, and it's reassuring that it wasn't the neighbors coming in

512
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,520
 to be like, do it anyway and just ask for permission.

513
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,160
 Yeah, exactly.

514
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,360
 So I mean, it does go to show that I don't think that's the

515
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:18,440
 reputation that people have or that this committee has to the public.

516
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,880
 That, oh, well, forget what they say, $500.

517
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,520
 All right.

518
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,960
 Well, yeah, I saw somebody just recently, I went to see this house on Congress

519
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:26,680
 that we almost bought.

520
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,360
 I sent the guy to you and gave him your contact

521
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:29,880
 because he was from Dallas as a realtor.

522
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,440
 He wanted to know, oh, how difficult is HLC?

523
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,320
 And I'm laughing thinking, it's not bad, you know.

524
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,600
 All the rules because he's been in Dallas.

525
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,720
 So he thinks it's a lot harder.

526
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,560
 Exactly.

527
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,440
 I said, it's not really that bad.

528
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,480
 He didn't do the work.

529
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,800
 He's like, oh, I gave you your contact.

530
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,440
 Okay.

531
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,880
 I've heard from him, but that's great.

532
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,360
 That's good.

533
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:46,840
 Thank you.

534
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:57,800
 So since we have Stephanie here, she's going to go through the municipal court.

535
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:05,880
 So you guys know what happens if anyone is interested in filing with the municipal court,

536
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,920
 which again, criminal court, it's a little bit different, but Stephanie's expert.

537
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:11,960
 She knows it all.

538
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,680
 Okay.

539
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,800
 So first, who brings a case to municipal court?

540
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,440
 Anyone can bring the case to municipal court.

541
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,440
 One of y'all, a concerned citizen, a city employee.

542
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,080
 Anyone willing to sign a probable cause affidavit?

543
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,080
 What is a probable cause affidavit?

544
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,720
 It is a legal document that sets forth enough evidence for the judge to believe

545
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920
 there's probable cause reasonably, but offense occurs.

546
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,440
 It's not beyond a reasonable doubt.

547
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,120
 More likely than not that an offense has occurred and it was committed by this person.

548
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,760
 So the first thing, the process before the hearing,

549
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,840
 someone decides an offense has taken place.

550
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,280
 Someone that lives in the district.

551
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,800
 My neighbor painted their house purple, white, and green stripes on the front.

552
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,400
 And this is not in the character of our neighborhood.

553
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,880
 You call Cameron or ethnic, you know,

554
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,440
 would you be the person they contact and say,

555
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,480
 I cannot believe what they did to the front of this house.

556
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,040
 Yes.

557
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,400
 And it was so beautiful.

558
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:25,400
 And then y'all look at the standards and you believe a violation has occurred.

559
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,440
 Maybe you reach out to Marcel and she's like, yeah, call Stephanie.

560
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,880
 And then I would email you an affidavit.

561
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,880
 Actually, like, this is just a rough draft.

562
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,600
 This is an example.

563
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,720
 I thought about bringing like a completed building and planning one,

564
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,400
 but it would have someone's name on there.

565
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,960
 They are public record.

566
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,720
 Someone could get them.

567
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,960
 But I thought I don't want to redact a bunch of stuff

568
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,320
 and have a bunch of redaction.

569
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:54,040
 So I actually took out the place for home address.

570
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,800
 It's not required that if a citizen files against someone,

571
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,000
 we haven't put their home address.

572
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,440
 We can find them via witness.

573
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:06,280
 If y'all are filing it, you know, we can, we could find you.

574
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,960
 I took out home number.

575
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,800
 This is trying to tell you how old these are.

576
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,840
 I took out home number because we all have cell phones now.

577
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,160
 And then I thought this is city.

578
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,240
 I'm supposed to make this gender neutral.

579
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,320
 And then I thought, well, this is also criminal case

580
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,280
 and a warrant could be issued.

581
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,360
 So it can't be general gender neutral.

582
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,520
 But I did put the word there in one place.

583
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,960
 So for these are criminal cases.

584
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,640
 So we need a date of birth, if possible.

585
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,880
 It can't go into warrant because I'll give you an example

586
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,120
 at when I lived in the city of Denton

587
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,200
 on the voting registrations at one time,

588
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,440
 there was four Stephanie Barry's, right?

589
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,240
 So if they go to, they need to know which Stephanie Barry it is.

590
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,760
 Well, it's the oldest, I was the oldest.

591
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,560
 So having my birthday would be helpful, right?

592
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:03,800
 So it's going to have some identifying information on there.

593
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,400
 And the person that swears to the probable cause affidavit

594
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,040
 has to know that the suspect, defendant,

595
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,720
 he'll be a defendant or she will be a defendant.

596
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,760
 Once they get this, they have a right to a copy of this.

597
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,880
 They're going to get a copy of this.

598
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,160
 - Is it redacted though?

599
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,640
 - No, it's not legal to redact a probable cause affidavit.

600
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,040
 Actually, I've had a police officer mad at me

601
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,800
 when a lady was murdered by her boyfriend.

602
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,280
 It was, y'all probably heard about it,

603
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,080
 where the boyfriend made it look like a suicide

604
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,320
 and that he was a sheriff's deputy from Tarrant County

605
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,680
 and turned out to be a murder.

606
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,680
 Well, the officer listed the mom's name of the victim

607
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:51,480
 in the affidavit.

608
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,040
 Well, of course, the press, I mean, it was newsworthy.

609
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,080
 We're calling the mom, but her name was on there.

610
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,600
 Like I can't, and so one of the sergeants called me,

611
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,480
 you should redact, like it's illegal for me to redact it.

612
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880
 So yeah, so it has to be.

613
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,280
 So maybe two neighbors live together.

614
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,920
 If they hate the house, one's more less worried

615
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,760
 about finding out who filed it.

616
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,720
 Maybe it's me and I'm like, I'll sign the affidavit.

617
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:18,440
 It's okay.

618
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,960
 They've got to be willing to do that.

619
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,920
 So, but a city employee could sign the affidavit.

620
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,240
 So someone fills out this affidavit.

621
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,400
 Our judge, our current judge actually

622
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,280
 just changed the process this year

623
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,240
 and the affidavit can be sworn to a notary public

624
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,760
 or he allows a police officer.

625
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,320
 So you don't have to, we used to have to make appointments

626
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,080
 until the last year with the judge.

627
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,560
 So that was a little cumbersome for everybody.

628
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,760
 So it could be done.

629
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,720
 You could do it with a notary.

630
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,120
 And then it is sent to the, this document will be filled out,

631
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,280
 sworn to and sent to the judge, sworn to in front

632
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,400
 of a notary or a peace officer.

633
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,280
 He finds probable cause that all the elements are there.

634
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,640
 He will issue a summons.

635
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,200
 We don't put classes into warrant

636
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,160
 without giving them a chance to voluntarily come to court.

637
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,960
 And an order to come to court and answer to the charge.

638
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,840
 What does that mean?

639
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,840
 That means to plea guilty, not guilty or no contest.

640
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,000
 That's, I do, we do those three days a week

641
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,480
 at one o'clock, Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.

642
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,640
 And they have a right to hire an attorney, hire an attorney.

643
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,800
 And they have a right to a judge or jury trial.

644
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,720
 The case is, has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt,

645
00:34:37,720 --> 00:34:38,840
 even though it's a class C.

646
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,120
 So it's a criminal burden of proof.

647
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,600
 Here say, can be on here.

648
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,160
 My neighbor said that they knew the house was supposed to be,

649
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,640
 you know, red and they painted it polka dots.

650
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,560
 And that's hearsay, right?

651
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,480
 It's what somebody else said.

652
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,120
 That can be considered for a probable cause affidavit.

653
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,400
 For court hearsay, hearsay could come in,

654
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,760
 but I'll tell you our current judge will not consider it at all.

655
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,040
 Judge Ramsey would weigh it.

656
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,280
 I'm giving the tips away.

657
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,480
 I mean, it doesn't matter.

658
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,040
 It's not a tip because he won't consider it at all.

659
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,480
 And it cuts both directions too.

660
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:30,920
 It does cut both directions.

661
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,000
 He won't, it's like, he never heard it.

662
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,160
 If it's not hearsay.

663
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,560
 So if the neighbor that heard the person that painted the house say,

664
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,800
 I'm, you know, admit to the violation,

665
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,440
 you need that body in the courtroom to testify.

666
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,680
 So what's required on this hearsay can come in.

667
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:55,000
 That's how they get warrants on selling drugs and a lot of things.

668
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,920
 But for court hearsay can come in if it without objection,

669
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,120
 but depending on the judge, they can weigh it as nothing

670
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,200
 or they can look at the credibility of it.

671
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,560
 Our current judge will not consider it at all.

672
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:18,360
 So you need live bodies in court to testify if someone please please not guilty.

673
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,160
 Let's see.

674
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:26,120
 So we got, so someone hires an attorney.

675
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,160
 Does that mean that they're going to go to trial?

676
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:35,560
 I'm always actually happy when people hire an attorney

677
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,680
 because I'm more likely to get a reasonable discussion.

678
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,080
 I'm not saying an outcome and resolution.

679
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,800
 And a lot of times people will get to the trial

680
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,120
 then they're representing themselves and suddenly, hey, I want to hire an attorney.

681
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,360
 Or guilty, not guilty or no contest.

682
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,360
 And then the life story starts guilty, not guilty.

683
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,640
 So it's not a bad thing when people hire an attorney.

684
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,360
 It's a good thing.

685
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,880
 And I'm not saying maybe most of the people I talk to

686
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,040
 are representing themselves and it's not a problem,

687
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,840
 but sometimes it's really good if someone hires an attorney.

688
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,160
 And then make plea bargain offers.

689
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,560
 And like I said, in a case where we're not trying to be punitive,

690
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,600
 like Mr. Anderson said, we want it to be fixed.

691
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:29,960
 We wish it hadn't happened.

692
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,160
 We want it to go back.

693
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,480
 We want to put the property in the state it should have been.

694
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,800
 So I will always, 100% of the time, offer,

695
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,560
 I'll just dismiss it if you would go to the HLC

696
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,560
 and make it like it was supposed to be.

697
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,840
 And their willingness to do that.

698
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,640
 And they might be willing to do it even if the cost is much higher than the maximum fine.

699
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,760
 If maybe it was just an accident or they were clueless or they feel bad

700
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,800
 or their neighbors are mad at them now and they don't want to move.

701
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,240
 And so they want to, you know, there's different reasons why they might do it.

702
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,160
 Or they have to report class misdemeanors to an ethical board.

703
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,560
 Yes, there's different, there's different reasons why they

704
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,760
 might want to come into compliance beyond just, they'll get their fine dismissed.

705
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,600
 The city can file this and a natural person can file this.

706
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,240
 Corporation file this?

707
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:25,880
 It has to be a, a lot.

708
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,080
 Yeah, okay.

709
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,920
 It has to be an individual human being that swears to the affidavit.

710
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,280
 It has to be based on personal knowledge.

711
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,120
 So, you know, you can't say, you know, a corporation can't say,

712
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,840
 "I saw something," it's an individual within the corporation.

713
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,200
 Okay, but the HLC is an entity or a code.

714
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,720
 Right, so individual on the HLC or just direct?

715
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:49,240
 I'm not saying we should.

716
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:50,600
 Well, yeah, yeah.

717
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,120
 I'm having a conflict there.

718
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,520
 A probable cause affidavit cannot be sworn to by a corporation.

719
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,640
 It has to be by a person.

720
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,360
 An individual.

721
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,320
 Okay, that's fine.

722
00:38:59,320 --> 00:38:59,820
 Yes.

723
00:38:59,820 --> 00:39:02,520
 It makes it easy, but curious.

724
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000
 I mean, I think the major problem is flippers.

725
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,800
 You're kicking me over here.

726
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,000
 It's not, it's not, you know, I don't think it's individuals living

727
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,720
 there as much as people in flipper houses.

728
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:12,600
 And so they don't--

729
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:13,640
 To make a profit.

730
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,600
 Right, so that's our issue mainly.

731
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,680
 I don't see it as an issue of, you know, people that, I mean,

732
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,520
 there are some that live there, but they're long,

733
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,440
 whether they're shorter, long-term, you know, flippers, that's the real issue.

734
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,600
 I have a question, this is something I should know when I go.

735
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,920
 In the code, who is liable?

736
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,840
 It's the homeowner, not a contractor or anyone else

737
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,360
 that needed to get the permit.

738
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,960
 It's the actual homeowner that's liable.

739
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:36,520
 Yes.

740
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,400
 Okay, so if they hire a company to do it and they say,

741
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,280
 "I'm not going to get a permit."

742
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,400
 These violations, yeah.

743
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,840
 Yeah, you're putting your homeowner in some risk there.

744
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,440
 Yeah, my contract said, you know,

745
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,680
 "I'll get the permit, this is how much it costs you."

746
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:51,800
 Because I had to pay for it.

747
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,440
 So, any questions about the municipal process?

748
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,120
 So, Cameron, you're going to be signing these, right?

749
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:00,680
 Yeah.

750
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,560
 The person is Cameron.

751
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,760
 Get ready, Stephanie.

752
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,120
 My cell phone is on 365-247.

753
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:14,920
 Oh, you poor thing.

754
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,200
 Oh, no, I don't want to bother you.

755
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,000
 I won't bother you.

756
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,640
 Stephanie will be like,

757
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,640
 "Why did I agree to come to the support meeting?"

758
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,240
 You got a new court on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays.

759
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,480
 There we go.

760
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,440
 1 PM, oh, you got that one.

761
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:29,480
 Yes, 1 PM.

762
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:30,360
 Pop quiz.

763
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,080
 I have an animal services officer coming tomorrow

764
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:41,960
 to file several animal at large cases on behalf of a citizen in kind of the same idea.

765
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,560
 And this citizen, I'll give you an example, fines don't always work.

766
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,640
 This guy has 11 cases.

767
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,000
 He's hired Chris Jones.

768
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:51,640
 Oh.

769
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,880
 And he paid for some of them.

770
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,200
 And it's just dog at large.

771
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,320
 He just won't.

772
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,120
 And I'm just like, some people have, it's fair to say, I'm not saying anything,

773
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,360
 more money than sense.

774
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:16,440
 So, I'm just like, sometimes fines don't help people that don't feel like I'll just pay.

775
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,960
 I don't care how many times you find me.

776
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:18,680
 I'm just going to pay.

777
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,040
 What is this saying, a fine is just legal for a certain amount of money?

778
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,160
 We know what you are, and now we're just quibbling the load.

779
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,880
 Yeah, so we do that.

780
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,080
 I have city employees file cases for code violations for,

781
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,960
 and Caleb Norris is doing some for home occupation,

782
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,840
 a person who won't quit running their auto repair shop out of their driveway.

783
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:43,800
 Oh, wow.

784
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,200
 Okay.

785
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,560
 I think I know where that is too.

786
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,720
 We might, and a police officer actually was out there on complaint and got a body cam

787
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:56,280
 clip of the person, it was the defendant saying, yeah, I guess I should get a shot.

788
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,880
 So, we kind of put, like she was out on a parking violation call.

789
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,600
 So, she knew Caleb had gotten like, so there's all different kinds of ways you can get evidence.

790
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,040
 That's when I watch the body cam and I'm just like.

791
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,720
 You're done.

792
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:12,280
 You're toast.

793
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:12,920
 You're history.

794
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:19,560
 So, any questions for Stephanie or can we let her get back to her day?

795
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,880
 I have a busy cell phone.

796
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,520
 My husband, my husband has early onset Alzheimer's.

797
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,400
 So, my mom went to get, he can stay at home by himself,

798
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,720
 but he can't like drive to my mom's and meet me there.

799
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:33,480
 So, my mom went to get him.

800
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,640
 So, I'm going to meet there and we're all going to have dinner together.

801
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:41,400
 Well, thank you for coming.

802
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,040
 Okay, y'all have a great night. Thank you.

803
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:44,920
 Appreciate it.

804
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,000
 And Cameron, I'm sure we'll be speaking.

805
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,240
 Yes, I'll be in touch.

806
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,480
 She made sure to get all of our names and addresses.

807
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:51,800
 Yes.

808
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,960
 Yeah, I took that, I took the address.

809
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,000
 I thought nobody really needs to know if any of y'all filed this for you.

810
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:06,360
 Ron, do you need this over there?

811
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,040
 Okay, I can do that. Are you presenting Ron and Roy?

812
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,440
 Oh, well, I was going to say Roy has to make the announcement.

813
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:21,160
 Okay, next on our work session is ATLT 22-059.

814
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,600
 Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding DIN 2040 comprehensive plan.

815
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:27,880
 And...

816
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,280
 I was going to say, so, Roy.

817
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,480
 Ron is going to make the presentation.

818
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,960
 Well, thank you for the opportunity.

819
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,960
 Really, if you can do the next slide just real quickly.

820
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,880
 What we're doing here is really just to share with the HLC

821
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:53,000
 that on March 22nd of this year, the City Council of the City of Mordens

822
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,560
 approving the update to the comprehensive plan, the city's comprehensive plan.

823
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:03,960
 The list that you see there is really the major components of the comprehensive plan,

824
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:09,720
 starting with the community vision, the elements within the plan, all the way down to the action

825
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:14,040
 plan. And I have slides for each of these, so we won't go through all this, but then

826
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,280
 also talk about the update process.

827
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,400
 So for those that aren't familiar with the comprehensive plan, it's an overarching document

828
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:28,760
 that kind of gives guidance to all the other plans and documents that the city has to follow,

829
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:34,120
 such as, say, the historic preservation plan, the mobility plan, so all those are

830
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,960
 under the comprehensive plan.

831
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,280
 So again, it's an overarching document, again, sets the priorities for the community,

832
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,440
 mainly manages growth, and hopefully promotes reinvestment,

833
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,040
 improving the quality of life of our citizens as well.

834
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:53,720
 So you may ask, well, where does it fit in all of the plans and what we just talked about,

835
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:55,800
 some of the permits and the COA?

836
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,480
 Well, it's really the base, right?

837
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:02,920
 It's the start of where we look at when we look at how we want to implement our plans.

838
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:08,760
 So starting with the comprehensive plan, and above that is, again, back to our zoning area

839
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:14,520
 plans and site plans, that can include our historic preservation plan as well.

840
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:20,840
 And then above that is how we install or put in infrastructure and utilities,

841
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,040
 and then all the way up to certificate of occupancies and permits.

842
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:32,280
 The vision is, again, it's the first one, and that's why it's here listed as the first one,

843
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,880
 because it's an important one, a component of the comprehensive plan.

844
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:42,520
 It basically tells us what our vision for the city is for the next 15 to 20 years.

845
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,800
 And it's broken down by four strategic directions,

846
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,520
 the character, the people, the economy, and then just growth in general.

847
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,720
 So that's how it's broken down.

848
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,520
 We've got goals, policies, and actions throughout the comprehensive plan.

849
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:02,520
 Again, what it does is it implements the vision of the city through these goals,

850
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,920
 policies, and ultimately these actions that we have.

851
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,680
 I'll go through this fairly quickly.

852
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,160
 These are the elements that are in the comprehensive plan.

853
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,800
 The first one is the plan framework, basically what's existing conditions,

854
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,680
 what we anticipate those conditions to be.

855
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,880
 And then we get into lane use, economic, vitality, community character,

856
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,160
 and then parks, conservation, and environment.

857
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,480
 Community character, just really quickly, is where a lot of the historic preservation

858
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,760
 goals, policies, and actions are located.

859
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,120
 So that's why it's highlighted there, or it's at least mentioned there in this slide.

860
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:44,840
 So again, element four is where you will see most of the historic preservation policies and actions.

861
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:53,240
 We also have mobility, housing. Housing does have some preservation actions, community health,

862
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:58,200
 infrastructure, and utilities, and ultimately implementation and monitoring is the last element.

863
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,440
 So that describes all the elements in the comprehensive plan.

864
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:09,480
 But again, element four is an important one for this commission to review if you have the opportunity.

865
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:17,240
 Again, the next few slides are maps. Maps are always telling of where, you know,

866
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:19,960
 we want growth to happen and how it should happen.

867
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,840
 So the first map is really the growth pattern

868
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,600
 of where we want to see the city to grow in the next 15 to 20 years.

869
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:31,400
 You see that much of the core area is where development should occur.

870
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:38,120
 We do also have master plan communities, ropes and ranch as well, to the south and southwest.

871
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,880
 So those areas are growing as well. You know, the coal and hunter ranch are other

872
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,560
 master plan communities that will be coming on track pretty soon as well.

873
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,720
 But again, our main purpose is the core area.

874
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,120
 What's the purple light? I looked through that. I couldn't hear what the purple was.

875
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:57,960
 Yeah, purple is the industrial areas. So the heavy industrial and light industrial.

876
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:04,360
 So we also recognize that that's an industry that's growing tremendously right now.

877
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,080
 That's sort of what's really driving some of the development activities that we have in the city

878
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:14,600
 is that western portion of the city, we're seeing a lot of logistics centers,

879
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,600
 some light industrial manufacturing and fabrication.

880
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:23,240
 As someone said, our main industry that we have is Peterbilt.

881
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:30,840
 And so there's a lot of those associated or related industries that help serve that company.

882
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,640
 The future land use, you saw the growth area.

883
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:41,800
 This is the future land use map identifying where in the city the uses should occur.

884
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,840
 And so you see the area that Mary, you just mentioned where it's purple and light blue.

885
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,360
 Those are designated as heavy industrial, industrial commerce, as well as light industrial.

886
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:57,240
 So that area west of I-35 is where we're seeing a lot of that activity.

887
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,960
 One question on here. I couldn't figure out what it was.

888
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:01,160
 Maybe it just wasn't in planning.

889
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,920
 What's that?

890
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,600
 It's the part that's, gee, the area that I kind of consider home

891
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,680
 is something that's called neighborhood and university compatibility.

892
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,360
 Could you put that in English for me?

893
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:18,440
 Sure. Yeah, it's hard to see, but really it's that area that's the lighter blue

894
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,880
 around the university, for example, right there.

895
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,960
 So where the orange is, right? Well, let's see if I can make a point.

896
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,600
 Yeah, we're probably just about close to it. Yeah, it's right in here.

897
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,600
 Yeah, those are the ones I cared about.

898
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,160
 I couldn't figure out what that might mean since I live there. I care.

899
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:44,360
 Yeah, so the light blue is still neighborhood, university compatibility area.

900
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:49,640
 I think what you're referring to is maybe the neighborhood mix use just north of that.

901
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:56,360
 No, I want to know what university compatibility is in terms of what can go in there,

902
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,680
 because that seems a bit different than I was expecting to see.

903
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:06,120
 Yeah, so what that is is really the buffer area or the transition area between the university

904
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,320
 and the neighborhood, right, or the neighborhood to the university.

905
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,560
 So what we try to do there with the future land use designation that you see here

906
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:19,000
 is identify areas where if there is a zoning district or a plan that can help

907
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:26,520
 lessen the impact of the conflict between the two entities, the neighborhoods and the university.

908
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,080
 So it's a compatibility buffer area. It's just not the universities.

909
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,400
 It's just the developers. Well, right.

910
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,600
 So that's what's driving a lot of that. So that area is designated as a special area,

911
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:43,960
 and we need to focus on that. And we need to look at plans and zoning

912
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,520
 and other development standards to help lessen some of that impact that may come from

913
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,080
 some of the development that is associated, not necessarily with the university, like you said,

914
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,640
 but maybe indirectly based on some of the needs for your housing and all that.

915
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,400
 Well, it had a tremendous effect over in our neighborhood.

916
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,240
 Yes. So yeah, so it doesn't really drop down there,

917
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:13,960
 but the I-35 is sort of the buffer. But then you're right, it's slowly coming south of I-35.

918
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:25,560
 So yeah, so this is the uses that we propose or project that will develop and it helps guide any

919
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:31,080
 zoning change request or any development plan developments. This is the type of uses that

920
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,920
 should be in this area for the next, again, we plan for the 15 to 20 year.

921
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:40,520
 Well, I guess I want to ask a specific question because Backwood Flow Hospital used to exist and

922
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,120
 there was an apartment complex put on there, which we thought was kind of ugly at the time.

923
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,360
 They ripped down these beautiful trees, but across the street, there's the behemoth ugly.

924
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:53,080
 Yes. It was known for hospitals and they used it to make an apartment complex. Is the city going

925
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,160
 to go back and relook at what the zoning actually exists there so that we don't have another one of

926
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:02,680
 those ugly behemoths appearing because of a lack of zoning fix? Right. Yeah. So I know definitely

927
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:09,080
 that's something that when we, as you probably all know, back in 2019, we updated the zoning code.

928
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,000
 Part of that effort was also revisiting some of the zoning districts within the city.

929
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:20,680
 What we tried to do is address that specifically. Now there were direction from council that stated

930
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:28,840
 that if the zoning is X, it should easily transition to Y. And so we basically somewhat had

931
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:35,400
 our limitation on how we can change zoning to allow for that, you know, like you said,

932
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,720
 adjustment if we needed to. We definitely are still looking at those and there may be some

933
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:47,080
 city initiated zoning district changes that we can implement. We did that along I-35. We did that

934
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:52,200
 along university. We can certainly look at scripture as well as part of that effort.

935
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:57,080
 The original intent was for medical offices, not for a behemoth apartment complex.

936
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,920
 Right. So the zoning of that area just happened to, you know, be at that time

937
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:07,080
 zoned for a higher intensity. And again, multifamily was sort of covered under that

938
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:12,440
 zoning district. And that's how that was known for doctor's offices. And that's not what happened.

939
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:20,120
 Yeah. Also, when we were proposing or when we were drafting the conference plan update,

940
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,840
 there was a lot of discussion. Well, we have areas run for development. So shouldn't we have

941
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:29,480
 areas for preservation? And this is land preservation, not historic preservation. This

942
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:35,400
 is land preservation. So what the city did with city staff and the consultants, we identified areas

943
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:41,320
 that should be protected. You know, these are environmental sensitive areas. These are natural

944
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:47,240
 resources, designated floodplains and many other types of, you know, resources that we should

945
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:53,000
 protect and preserve. So we put this map together and this is again, helpful for anybody that's

946
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:58,200
 developing in the city to identify where areas should be protected. And obviously you see those

947
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:03,000
 major creeks, right? You got Cooper Creek to the north, you got Hickory Creek to the south.

948
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:10,360
 The concrete kind of goes right in the middle. But these are our major creeks and tributaries

949
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,880
 and associated with that are potential, you know, could be potential open space trails and

950
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,360
 other things like that. So this map gives the person that's, you know, looking at the conference

951
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:28,680
 plan an idea of where preferred land preservation should occur. Our last map that I have here is the

952
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:34,600
 future area concept map. These are, you know, specific areas that we want to see more

953
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:42,920
 evaluation or planning work. I can tell you that the city is in the process of doing an area plan

954
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:57,560
 for the northeast circle. That's one of our area plans that we're going to be working on.

955
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:04,360
 And also southeast end is another area that we're looking at doing an area plan. Cameron has been

956
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:11,320
 doing a lot of work there with, you know, some sign talkers, but there's a lot of activity in

957
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:17,080
 terms of some of the development around the downtown. And there's obviously some need for

958
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:22,840
 some protection and maybe some character preservation in that area. So we're looking for a small area

959
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:29,080
 plan, an area plan at least for that area to help again identify those assets that we want to protect

960
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:35,880
 and maybe also enhance as well. So a lot of work is being done, but this map here illustrates all

961
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,480
 those specific years in the city. There's a lot, but we're slowly going to try to get to them. But

962
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:47,240
 the main ones that we're are targeting at this moment is the northeast end, a lot of development

963
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:52,840
 happening there, as well as southeast as we see development and redevelopment occurring in that

964
00:55:52,840 --> 00:56:00,040
 particular area. What are the red lines? The red lines are the corridors, corridor plans. So are

965
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,280
 you referring to the darker red lines or the circles? Oh, the darker red lines. Yeah, so those

966
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,920
 are corridor plans. So, you know, you have like centers where, you know, you can identify

967
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:15,560
 neighborhoods or, you know, commercial or employment areas. But sometimes they follow a corridor. So the

968
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:21,800
 red ones are, starting from the bottom, you've got Teasley, you've got Fort Worth and Dallas Drive,

969
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:26,040
 you also have Mayhill on the west, I'm sorry, the east. You've got Hickory and Oak, so you're already

970
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:32,840
 hitting my nerves right now. Yeah, so they go through there. I think that's Oak, if I'm not

971
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,600
 mistaken, and then University that runs east-west. Yeah, just where I wanted in front of my front door.

972
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,320
 Well, again, it's a plan, right? So it's not necessarily saying it's got to be a commercial

973
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:48,520
 or it's got to be a higher intensity. It's really to identify that area of focus and do more planning

974
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:53,320
 to identify where we, if there's protections, then we can do protection measures. If there's

975
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,920
 enhancement, we can do that as well. So it goes both ways. Right in front of my house, though.

976
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:03,960
 I'm going to be keeping a good eye out on that. Okay. Yeah. So if you're looking at a certain area

977
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:09,160
 where you think there may be cultural or historical items, areas that need to be protected, what role,

978
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:14,360
 if any, does HLC play in that planning process? A big role. I mean, I think this is partly why

979
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:20,520
 when we come here is really the comprehensive plan gives you sort of the vision, right? It helps

980
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:28,200
 you. I mean, obviously HLC has their task, but hearing from the citizens, and really this is

981
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:33,880
 what the comprehensive plan presents, is that vision from the citizen, ultimately the city,

982
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:41,240
 and what they would like to see is certain areas where they should be protected. Now that

983
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:46,280
 overarching document, the comprehensive plan, does inform other plans such as the historic

984
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,800
 preservation plan. And then within that historic preservation plan, think of it as an even lower

985
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:59,320
 area or lower elevation of planning. And so that's another document that this HLC

986
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:06,680
 should be very aware of, or I'm sure they are, you are, because it does identify those next areas

987
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:13,320
 where preservation should occur. So I was going to piggyback on what Ron is saying, is that I'm

988
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:18,920
 actually going to plan a boot camp, I think it's next month, where we're going to go through the

989
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:25,480
 preservation plan, kind of looking at those key areas of interest that were implemented in 2019

990
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,560
 when it came forward and was passed by city council. So that we can kind of start working

991
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:35,240
 towards those goals and those action plans as an HLC. So I just wanted to throw that in real quick.

992
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:43,160
 You have red circles and blue circles. So right, so that's a good question. The red circles are more

993
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:49,320
 related to centers like commercial employment centers. The blues are more like gateways or

994
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:55,000
 travel centers. So as you look at them, there are areas where travelers would come through or

995
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:00,920
 citizens would come to the city. And so we've identified areas where it could be marketed

996
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:07,000
 or it could be branded as an entry or a gateway into the city. So those are the blue circles.

997
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:12,680
 This is the second map that shows 288 going west from 35.

998
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:13,880
 Yeah, that's what I saw too.

999
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:18,040
 So is that actually the contracts are let or is that still?

1000
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:26,040
 You know, when I first joined here, the city, gosh, 17 years ago, I was told that it was going

1001
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:32,120
 to be done in 10 years, right? Well, that was actually 17 years ago. But it is my understanding

1002
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:38,200
 that they're actually in the process of purchasing property and it will be let sometime, you know,

1003
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,760
 gosh, in a couple of years. So I mean, you work with the properties and then you got utilities

1004
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:50,600
 you got to deal with. And so as soon as those are all set, the actual construction will begin.

1005
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:56,360
 And it's going to start on the north side of the city and work its way south on the west side of

1006
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:04,760
 the airport, ultimately, lining back on to back to I-35W through the whole of the coal and hunter

1007
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:10,120
 master plan community, which they have as part of their master plan. So yeah, that's, yeah,

1008
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:15,080
 that's going to be a loop that hopefully completes that circle. Oh, no, but it's not quite complete.

1009
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:22,360
 What's missing is the part from 35 over to the rest of the south part. Yeah, the south part loop

1010
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,640
 is kind of missing, which I don't think will ever happen. There's a lot of development already there.

1011
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:32,840
 I think what we're thinking of what is being thought of is maybe using Hickory Creek as sort

1012
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:38,280
 of that connection, but it's not going to be a thoroughfare freeway like the loop is right now.

1013
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:46,200
 The action plan, we kind of talked about this a little bit already. Obviously, the conference

1014
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:53,480
 plan contains a lot of actions. There's a table called the action plan and it lists all of the

1015
01:00:53,480 --> 01:01:00,120
 actions that's included in the conference plan. And we just have this table to help us sort of

1016
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:06,600
 evaluate and monitor the implementation of the conference plan. I can tell you that the HLC,

1017
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,000
 the Historic Landmark Commission, and I think Mr. Cooper may have references of there are some

1018
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:17,560
 actions here in the plan that kind of goes back to HLC and your responsibility. And that could also

1019
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:23,560
 tie back to the Historic Preservation Plan or maybe some actions that are more, you know, sooner

1020
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:30,040
 than later. So those are things that we hope and I'll work with Garry to bring some of those forward

1021
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:35,960
 and share that with you. But as I looked at the conference plan, I identified 18 references of the

1022
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:42,840
 Historic Landmark Commission as partners in getting those actions implemented. The next three slides

1023
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:49,480
 really quickly is I went through the conference plan and just identified what and how the HLC

1024
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,760
 or historic preservation is referenced. And I can tell you that it's referenced in the community

1025
01:01:54,760 --> 01:02:00,600
 vision statement, as you can read here on the second bullet. Obviously, in the core of DEN,

1026
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:05,960
 we see established neighborhoods where revitalization and compatible infill development

1027
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:12,520
 contributes to the stable, livable, and historic character that fosters neighborhood pride and

1028
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:19,400
 homeownership. So that is a part of our vision that we want to foster neighborhoods and also

1029
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:25,880
 our historic character. Also, the three historic districts are referenced in the conference plan.

1030
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,760
 Obviously, it's an important historic resource that we have and we want to make sure that we

1031
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:37,000
 identify and continue those efforts in protecting those historic structures within those historic

1032
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:42,200
 districts. The preservation plan we already mentioned. And then I listed all the different

1033
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:47,000
 elements or the elements at least that have actions related back to historic preservation.

1034
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:53,240
 So I won't go through all of them. I just want to show that there are actions in land use, economic,

1035
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:59,400
 conservation, environment, as well as housing where there's historic preservation actions listed.

1036
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:06,840
 And again, as I mentioned earlier, element four, which is community character and urban design,

1037
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:14,840
 has the majority of the historic preservation actions. In fact, it has more policies and actions.

1038
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:20,600
 You see that there's policies identified there in relationship to identifying more historic

1039
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:27,640
 resources, preservation of historic resources, financial incentives, property maintenance,

1040
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:34,840
 historic tourism and urban design. And again, a lot of these higher overarching goals policies

1041
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:41,640
 are further implemented through the historic preservation plan. So

1042
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:48,440
 Cameron and I and others looked at the comprehensive plan and the historical preservation.

1043
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:53,880
 There's no conflict there. They're working in sync. And we hope to, again, as Cameron mentioned,

1044
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:59,560
 maybe next month, start to share some of those actions in its part of the historic preservation

1045
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:05,000
 plan to then hopefully have the commission give direction to move forward with some of those

1046
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:14,600
 actions. Lastly, I think my last slide is just to share with you all. It was an update just, again,

1047
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:21,800
 adopted in March of this past year. We looked at a lot of different public input. Of course,

1048
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:26,680
 with COVID, it was somewhat difficult. But in the end, we were able to have a public open house.

1049
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:32,120
 That's the photo that you see there. And there was a lot of engagement with the community.

1050
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:39,720
 And ultimately, again, we adopted this plan in March of this year. That's it. So just really want

1051
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:45,240
 to provide an overview of the comprehensive plan. And again, touch on the Historic Landmark

1052
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:51,720
 Commission's role in this. And ultimately, in my opinion, and also Cameron's opinion is that the

1053
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,840
 historic preservation plan is really where you all should focus. But again, the historic preservation

1054
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:05,000
 plan is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the vision of the city. I hope that makes sense.

1055
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,000
 Well done. That was such a long plan. I thought we were going to be here for three hours.

1056
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,560
 I wanted to keep it short, but concise as well. Well, that's helpful. Thank you.

1057
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:18,760
 And I failed to mention, I should have put it on there. If you have interest in,

1058
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:25,400
 obviously the comprehensive plan is attached as part of the backup. But if you want, it's also

1059
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:31,080
 on our website. And I can have Cameron send you the link to where that is so that you can easily

1060
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:41,960
 access it and then review it during your leisurely time. Free time. Okay. Thank you.

1061
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:57,800
 Okay. The next thing on our work session agenda, HLC 22-058, hold a discussion regarding the

1062
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:06,920
 historic landmark commission project matrix. So the one thing that I wanted to bring forward,

1063
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,560
 obviously, this is the matrix for you all to work with and add things to in terms of requests.

1064
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:18,200
 But I did add a request for myself is regarding this discussion of the benefits of having,

1065
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:29,080
 or no, sorry, the 2011 West Oak Street in the DDC 2.9.5 that I sent last week regarding confirmation

1066
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:34,840
 of interest in bringing forward a 10-day notice. I only received feedback from three commissioners,

1067
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:40,760
 two were for, one against. So I'm just trying to get confirmation from the rest of the commissioners

1068
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:45,880
 who did not participate in that email, whether or not we need to bring that forward with a 10-day

1069
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:56,440
 notice. So this would be a 10-day notice from the historic preservation officer myself. I'd be

1070
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:04,120
 sending it to the homeowner asking for compliance and fixing up their windows and making sure that,

1071
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,360
 you know, removing the boards because currently there is just plywood covering the windows.

1072
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:14,120
 So making sure that they get those windows fixed and that, you know, they're kind of holding up

1073
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:20,680
 the standards of the historic district. And if not, then they would need to come in front of HLC

1074
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:31,320
 for a hearing. I remember the message at the time, but it wasn't clear to me what was wrong,

1075
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:38,760
 what was going on with, they weren't getting it done. So from my understanding, there has been

1076
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:47,080
 plywood in some of these windows. So it was covering the windows. It's been, there's been

1077
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:54,440
 multiple complaints since October. The most recent one was in April. And I guess even the property

1078
01:07:54,440 --> 01:08:00,120
 owners nearby have asked if they can even purchase the property so that they can fix it up and make

1079
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:04,200
 sure that it's kind of being held to the certain standards of maintenance within the historic

1080
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:10,200
 district. But currently it's just plywood that's been painted white. It is covering the windows

1081
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:17,800
 themselves. So, and it's a vacant property. Yes, there's a lot of room. So we have no idea if,

1082
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:22,280
 you know, the water is probably still going in, you know, damaging the inside because there was

1083
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:32,280
 broken window panes. So some of the photos and what I talked to the code enforcement officer,

1084
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:39,000
 they said that there was kind of the wooden frames were disintegrating. So, and that there were broken

1085
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:45,800
 window frames and that basically the plywood was just put up to kind of help keep it, you know,

1086
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:50,920
 being further damaged from the environment, but it wasn't fully enclosing the area. So who knows what

1087
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:56,760
 damage is being done to the inside. Obviously when I emailed you all, it says it, usually it's brought

1088
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:03,080
 forward due to, you know, fear of structural damage. So we could, that could be, you know,

1089
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:08,360
 the issue that's at hand. No one's been inside. And these have, this complaint started in October

1090
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:13,880
 and it's now April or the most recent one was in April and now we're in May and they have still not

1091
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:19,880
 complied. The windows were not up. The panes were broken. That I did not see. But I couldn't see it.

1092
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:30,680
 Yeah. So I guess, um, in the side in the rear is where the front is. It's uglier than, I just didn't

1093
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:36,040
 realize it was broken. Yeah. So the window panes are broken. So it's just, that's why I brought it

1094
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:41,800
 to you all. So this could be another step in kind of making sure that, you know, people realize that

1095
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,720
 you all are here and that people need to be maintaining their properties as expected within

1096
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,760
 the historic district. Any conversation with the owner of this property? Yes. So there has

1097
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:55,960
 been conversations with, from code enforcement with the property owner. Um, he has stated that

1098
01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:01,560
 he wanted to fix it up and put his son in there, but he has used that same kind of discussion and

1099
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:07,240
 had that same discussion multiple times, I guess, since October. And that's kind of been his main

1100
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,560
 argument is that he, he's going to get there and he's going to fix it up and it's going to go to

1101
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:16,280
 his son. And then it was his mom's home and he doesn't want to give it up. But at the same time,

1102
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:22,840
 he's not necessarily maintained property. So can we do like options? What do we do now?

1103
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:32,360
 So if we have at least, you know, a quorum who votes to have, uh, me do the, uh, 10 day notice,

1104
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,920
 then I would tomorrow put together a 10 day notice. Marcella would review it to make sure

1105
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:41,160
 everything's in order legally. And then I would send it to the property owner stating that you

1106
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,400
 need, I need a response to hear from you within 10 days. If not, we will be calling you to the HLC

1107
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:56,040
 for public hearing. Okay. And what do we actually do? So you all would be providing a, um, basically,

1108
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:02,360
 I would say, can we just make sure I'm giving you the right information. Um, but Marcella's

1109
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:07,960
 gonna pull it up from, but from what I remember and what I'm understanding is that you all would

1110
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:13,960
 give him direction of what needs to be done. And if he does not comply, then he would have to come

1111
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:20,840
 back with an appeal, which I believe would then go to city council. But I'm going to let Marcella

1112
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:28,200
 confirm that because I don't want to give you all the wrong information. Well, has someone from HLC

1113
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:34,600
 has, uh, not the commission really, but staff, have they gone out and expected to see what's

1114
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:39,640
 needed though? So code enforcement has been up there basically saying, you know, this is a hazard

1115
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,680
 to the property. It's vacant property. You have broken window panes. You're, um, I guess there was

1116
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:49,000
 also a complaint of multiple animals living under the homes and they had a board up along their

1117
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:57,160
 foundation. I mean, close that because they had, you know, kind of infestation. Um, so that it's

1118
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:03,240
 just been in code enforcement. I've driven by have not gone on the property itself. Um, but if we want

1119
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,560
 to move forward, then I can ask, um, the code enforcement officer who's been taking calls

1120
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:13,720
 specifically for this property. If I can go out with her and walk the property just to see what

1121
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:18,360
 exactly the issues are. Cause I just have photos currently at the moment. It looked like it improved

1122
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:24,440
 a little bit because it wasn't just basic plywood. It was white plywood, but the broken windows are

1123
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:30,120
 very concerning. Yeah. So basically procedurally what'll happen is they'll give a 10 day notice

1124
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:35,640
 letter. Um, and then, yeah, if there doesn't seem to be improvement within those 10 days,

1125
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:42,680
 then we'll hold a public meeting at our next, it would be the June meeting. Yes. Um, to discuss

1126
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:48,760
 whether the structure is structurally unsound or an imminent danger of becoming structurally unsound.

1127
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:53,880
 So that gives the homeowner opportunity to give evidence that their remedy up to this point is

1128
01:12:53,880 --> 01:13:00,120
 either satisfactory to prevent further decay, or there's not the issue that, you know, the deterioration

1129
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,280
 that we're seeing from the outside, maybe it, it looks worse because we don't know what the inside

1130
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:09,880
 looks like. Um, so that meeting, he would present, present evidence to you all. So the burden's on

1131
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:17,800
 him. Yeah. So the burden's on, on him. And, um, ultimately you guys will be making the determination.

1132
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:23,640
 Cameron can bring information as well. If she wants to, there's no real like procedural setup for the

1133
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:28,920
 meeting, but essentially at the end of the meeting, what you'll be asked to is instead of our normal

1134
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:35,800
 three options, you'll have to make a finding that their structure is structurally unsound or in

1135
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:42,120
 danger of becoming structurally unsound. And no valid reason exists as to why they cannot undertake

1136
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:50,280
 the repairs that are needed. Um. So is the assumption that it's unsound unless he could

1137
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:57,720
 prove otherwise? Um, so the, no, the, it's only unsound if you guys make a finding that is unsound.

1138
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:02,360
 It's kind of hard. But what would we base it on? Keep you providing evidence. The evidence he

1139
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:08,040
 provides and then if code enforcement provides their evidence as well. Um. What was the long

1140
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:15,720
 term outcome? I, if we do say that. Right. Yeah. So that's the next step. No problem. Um, so if they

1141
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:24,040
 get that notification, then we would provide information on what necessary repairs would need

1142
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:33,080
 to be done. Um, and then yeah, so they have to make those repairs within 90 days. And if not,

1143
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:41,000
 if not, then, um, so it, well, if they don't make the repairs, then it's a code violation,

1144
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:47,000
 which is what we talked about earlier today. But if they, there are valid reasons why the owner

1145
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:53,400
 cannot make their repairs, then we would actually go directly to city council. So we would say this

1146
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:58,920
 building is unsafe. This owner isn't able to make the repairs either because of economic hardship

1147
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:07,320
 or, you know, the windows don't, can't be made for 16 weeks or something, which is valid because

1148
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:11,800
 getting windows right now, it takes a really long time. So if there's a reason why, you know, that

1149
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:17,080
 90 day period just isn't going to work, we can, uh, you basically have to go to city council with

1150
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:24,280
 the reasons why they're not going to be able to comply with the 90 day upkeep requirement. Um,

1151
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:32,920
 and then city council will take action. Um, they can, they have a lot more broad powers than we

1152
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,600
 do, so they can kind of take whatever action they see fit. That's the way this is drafted,

1153
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:44,280
 but essentially we would provide a recommendation to them as to what, why they, why the homeowner,

1154
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:48,200
 if there are valid reasons why they can't make the repairs themselves, and then what recommendations

1155
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:54,360
 we would be bringing to city council as a board. Um, but that's only if you find that there are

1156
01:15:54,360 --> 01:16:02,360
 reasons why the owner cannot make the necessary repairs. Um, and then if they don't agree with

1157
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:08,040
 our ruling, they can appeal within 60 days to the city council. I mean, I just looked up Denton

1158
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:14,600
 CAD to find out the ownership status, right? I mean, they list that as their address for the, the, the, the owner.

1159
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:20,440
 Correct. Why do you say that nobody lives there? They don't. We know that they, uh, code enforcement

1160
01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:25,400
 didn't give me too much information, but we do know the gentleman lives in Southridge neighborhood.

1161
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:35,560
 Okay, now years ago when I was on the affordable housing, well, you were there. We had access to

1162
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:43,560
 some CVG funds to use in situations to, for people, for grants to individuals to do something.

1163
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:49,960
 So that might be something that we would direct city council to review and see if there are,

1164
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:54,920
 yeah, to see if there are a funding source where the city could potentially sponsor. I'm not sure,

1165
01:16:54,920 --> 01:17:00,120
 I'm not sure if it's available for rental properties. A rental. Okay. I mean, well,

1166
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:06,040
 I don't know if this wasn't a rental. Well, it's not his home. Correct. It's not his home and he'd

1167
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:12,440
 be giving it. I, I don't know how rental property is necessarily defined because as of what I know

1168
01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:16,200
 right now, he would own the property and his son would just live there. I don't think he would

1169
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:24,840
 necessarily be renting it from. Well, but he would not be. Yes. I don't think, but there might be,

1170
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:29,720
 yeah. So, but at the end of the day, it's like not really within our purview necessarily to know if

1171
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:35,560
 there's funding sources available. It would be if city council wanted to direct staff to investigate

1172
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:42,040
 funding or if there's, um, if they are eligible for either the homeowner improvement program or

1173
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:51,640
 CBGP funds. Is it true that they could ultimately put the house up for sale? Yes. Yes. Ultimately,

1174
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:57,080
 if you don't do anything, it gets listed and sold. Okay. That was what I was trying to figure out.

1175
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:03,560
 Okay. That's what will happen to it. If, if they don't come forward is so we gotta be careful that

1176
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:09,880
 we do it right. Right. Now at this point, we're info information gathering. Come talk to us,

1177
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:15,480
 help us. We'll see what we can do. And you're at, so what you're asking us is for a motion

1178
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:22,600
 or at least a vote to authorize you to send a 10 day letter to get him to our, him or her,

1179
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:32,520
 to our genius. So the way the ordinance is drafted and it says the HLC may require the HPO to send

1180
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:38,200
 the letter. So we would need an action of the HLC, which would require at least four of you.

1181
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:43,480
 Would it be a summons? I mean, is the person required to show? No, no, no. Cause they, um,

1182
01:18:43,480 --> 01:18:46,760
 there's actually provisions that they don't show up. We send them a letter as to what our

1183
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:53,080
 recommendations are. Um, so they're not required to come. Um, but it is kind of a way to put them

1184
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:58,120
 on notice that we need more information. I think particularly in this, you correct me if I'm wrong,

1185
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:02,600
 cause we're not able to see inside the home. So maybe he's able to bring pictures of inside

1186
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:08,920
 each of the windows and the wall looks fine. There's no evidence of damage from the windows

1187
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:15,080
 and maybe that impacts y'all's review of the concern. So I think it's, it is still at the 10

1188
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:21,880
 day notice. It is that fact finding stage. And we can always say like, if he comes and it doesn't

1189
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:25,880
 seem like it's as bad as it looks from the outside, then we can just say, you know,

1190
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:32,360
 fix it when you can, but there's no requirement to meet that 90 day. You don't have to find it.

1191
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,360
 So we're just assuming what's going on on the inside, right?

1192
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:41,080
 Well, yeah. And if he doesn't, if he chooses not to show up, we can still take the same

1193
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:45,640
 action. Like you can decide as a majority, there's not enough information to show that it's

1194
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:52,360
 correct. Right. So we just have code enforcement and all the different complaints that have come

1195
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:57,160
 in. We have their photographs and then what we have is basically all our information is from

1196
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:01,320
 code enforcement and the neighbors who are, and if he doesn't show them when that's our information,

1197
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:05,160
 right? Correct. Yes. That'd be your evidence. So there's not a report, if you will, from code

1198
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:13,240
 enforcement. So I can ask them for a report, you know, that I can provide once, you know,

1199
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:17,960
 that can be prior. So if you guys do not want to decide on this until a report is actually given

1200
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:24,760
 from code enforcement, we can do it that way and I can just present it in June. I wasn't asking for

1201
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:33,560
 it to be delayed. Okay. Okay. So, but so yes, so code enforcement can put together, you know,

1202
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:38,280
 a packet of information that they have, the code, the complaints that they've received,

1203
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:45,080
 and then I can send that to you all, you know, during the 10 day process as well. Because I've

1204
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:49,240
 received some of that information, as I said, that I shared with you all, but I haven't asked for a

1205
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:55,000
 formal report, but I can ask for that. And I will say if we decide to take this action today, unless

1206
01:20:55,000 --> 01:21:01,160
 you all choose to have an emergency meeting, they would have more than 10 days to provide information

1207
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:06,040
 because our next meeting isn't scheduled until, I believe it's June 13th. So we can't make that

1208
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:12,920
 decision now because it's not part of the agenda, right? Right. Well, you can direct her to issue

1209
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,600
 the notice, but we can't decide if we want to take an emergency meeting or anything like that.

1210
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:26,760
 Correct. So if they come to you, the three things you said we would be choosing between were finding

1211
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:36,920
 that it was in danger and it was falling apart and, or that it could be, or one or the other.

1212
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:44,120
 So the finding is whether the structure is structurally unsound or an imminent

1213
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,160
 danger of becoming structurally unsound. Okay, that's one option.

1214
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:54,280
 Those are the, or not. Oh, I see. Oh, oh. So you find that it is one of those two things.

1215
01:21:54,280 --> 01:22:01,480
 Or you don't make a finding. Okay. Or we postpone it to another agenda or we postpone it indefinitely

1216
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:08,360
 because I think we have the right to postpone anything you bring. Well, the question is, how do

1217
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:13,480
 we back away if we get there? You just wouldn't make a finding and then it would end. Yes,

1218
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:17,240
 correct. And then it would be done. And I have a question, Cameron, you can send us that 10-day

1219
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:25,400
 letter if we agree that it shouldn't be issued. Yes. Thank you. This is just more of an overall

1220
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:32,680
 thing. I'm curious, how is it that we can have, make a decision as the board to request staff to

1221
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:39,880
 send this letter outside of an agenda item? Because it was on the matrix. Okay, so as long as it's,

1222
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:43,960
 okay. Yeah. Yeah. So basically- We're not making a finding. Yeah, we're not making a finding.

1223
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:49,000
 It's more of just confirming the interest and sending a 10-day notice. Okay. Yeah. So we wouldn't

1224
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,560
 put anything on the agenda like this if it were like a full COA or like something that requires

1225
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:57,720
 like a public hearing or more of an open meeting. Right. But because this is just directing

1226
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:04,200
 Cameron to make a decision, we're just being extra safe to put it on the matrix because

1227
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,800
 you never know. But technically- No, that's why this one has to know. I don't know of any-

1228
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:15,720
 I may have voted as a way I would change my vote probably based on new information from this. Okay.

1229
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:22,360
 But because it's not a motion, I don't think we need a second. I think we can go straight to a vote.

1230
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,080
 Yeah, we just need, you know, whoever's interested. Okay. So the only thing in the

1231
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:33,240
 paper of Cameron issuing now a 10-day notice indicate by raising your hand unless you count them.

1232
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:43,640
 So you have five and five. Okay. So then I will put together the 10-day notice. I'll send it to

1233
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:47,960
 you all so you can read it prior to me sending it out. And I will also make sure that I get a

1234
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:53,240
 report from code enforcement with all that information. Yes. Who is the property owner?

1235
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:58,520
 His name is Thibodeau. He's owned this house according to the deed since 2010.

1236
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:05,160
 Oh my goodness. It's on here. I mean, Denton Cat tells me he's had it since 2010. He lives on a

1237
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:09,160
 ridge whatever crest circle in Southridge. It's not the fancy part of Southridge, but.

1238
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:19,240
 What is the address? Do we know? 2011 is where he lived. Oh, it's 1501 ridge crest circle.

1239
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:28,120
 Okay. So I might have a conflict, although I don't think so. They bought that house from my parents

1240
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:40,280
 in 1984. 1501. Oh, yeah. The mom and dad lived there for. So am I conflicted? I don't think so,

1241
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:44,280
 but I don't know. We can't make a determination if you're conflicted or not. You're actually not.

1242
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:49,160
 Okay, I was like, I'm going to. I think you have no relationship to them, Roy. No, I did not.

1243
01:24:54,840 --> 01:25:01,640
 Also, I'm actually preempted from making a determination. So the answer is it depends.

1244
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:13,480
 Okay, so all right. I believe we need a motion to adjourn. Well, is there anything else on the

1245
01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:19,480
 major? I don't think so. I motion to adjourn. Second. Those in favor? We're out of here.

1246
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:21,160
 They're out of here. Thank you very much.