Apr 20, 2022 Mobility Committee on 2022-04-20 9:00 AM

Good morning, and welcome to this meeting of the Mobility Committee of the City of Denton, Texas. We have a quorum present, and we will proceed, but I want to check in. I know we have some availability of presenters that may vary today due to traffic issues and so on, so I just want to check in before we call items as far as what sequence we're going to need to go in. I think we're great with the sequence we have. Everyone's made it. Oh, awesome. Terrific. Thank you. All right. So we'll take up item A, consider approval of the minutes of March 23rd. I'll entertain a motion. I move approval. Do we have a second? I second. All in favor, aye. Aye. Aye. Minutes are approved. Item B, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the City of Denton transportation / Mobility Project status report. You did make it through the back streets. You know where they all are. It's good to have a map in your truck. Okay, today John Polster with Innovative Transportation Solutions will be talking about various projects throughout the city that works out to about a little over $2 billion once the projects are fully operational. Our first project is the 2181 North/South project. This project is still on track for completion in the October time frame. The construction report basically outlines that they are working on the southbound lanes, finalizing all of the pavement, doing some of the cleanup on the -- some of the drainage on the north side. And we've hit a couple of utilities, but each time we do, the utility providers are fairly quick to respond to Atmos Gas has been the primary culprit out there. But we've seemed to be able to resolve them on that same day and keep the project moving. But this project that started like 13 years ago should be done by October of this year. If you remember, this is a project that originally started out with MCM contractors and they defaulted and we had to go to a new contractor. Okay, 35E Mayhill, a couple of things. We will have the right-of-way completed this month. We are working on the 95% plan set, have some utility issues we're going to be addressing, but one of the things that we're going to explore is the movement from 2499 coming up from the south to get on to the freeway going north. In the interim solution where we have the bypass over Brinker, that just simply gets you to the 288 exit. So we're going to be looking to see if there's a way to tweak the plan so that if the traffic coming up 2499 wants to go north to get on to the freeway, can do it prior to having to stop at 288. The issue we have to go back and look at is that ultimately, this section of 35 has four managed lanes that will be built in the ultimate, so it will be, you all have none from the lake north, from the lake south that's reversible, ultimately there will be four total till about North Texas Boulevard that it drops down to one. So we've got to look at where we can bring in the 2499 traffic in the interim that doesn't impact us when we build the managed lanes in the future. But it is a movement that's not currently being served in this project and we're going to see if there's a way to fix that. Can I ask a question? Absolutely. Yeah, Councilmember Burke. For the sake of educational perspective, what does managed lanes mean? Okay, thank you. So the lanes that are on 35E, LBJ and North Town Express have lanes in the center that you pay a toll during parts of the day and the managed term is A, it has a toll on it and B, it fluctuates, the toll rate fluctuates as the congestion on the general purpose lanes go up. So when there's a lot of traffic, they charge you more. If there's not a lot of traffic, they charge you less. So they manage the capacity of those managed lanes by making it more expensive to ride on during congestion time frame. So it's like congestion pricing. So in other words, what I'm hearing, I know what you're saying, but what I'm hearing is that we're going to have a toll that's going to run up through the day. From all the way around through to 380 and then ultimately from 380 all the way down 35W to Tarrant County. So that's the toll managed system for the North Texas area includes those two legs of 35. Thank you. And just to piggyback on that, so when you say four lanes, two in each direction? Correct. Because right now we have reversible because when we did the interim job on 35, we had about $1.2 billion to do the work and if we bought all the right of way to do the ultimate, that would cost us about a billion dollars and then we wouldn't be able to build anything. So we crammed four lanes south of the lake and reversibles and then three lanes north of the lake and essentially existing right of way. Do you have an opinion on whether the primary motivation for that is traffic management and mobility? It absolutely is traffic management and we've got, because we get that question a lot, is it a revenue generator or is it a management system? And we've done a lot of studies, we can show you on both 35LBJ and North Tarrant Express that even those travelers who never get on the managed lanes benefit in the peak periods and we've got before the managed lanes were there, your average AM peak travel time was like 30 miles an hour. Right now it's right at 50 and they didn't add any more general purpose lanes on 635 and North Tarrant Express, they just put in the managed lanes. So the managed lanes have increased the movement and mobility of the general purpose lanes if you never ever get on the managed lanes. And it gives you an option if you absolutely, positively have to be on time, then you've got a managed lane facility that's there to accommodate. That's why they increase the cost because they don't want everybody getting on the managed lanes. Just to put that in perspective, if you ever go to Austin, right, the elevated section, that's called a non-told managed lane facility and if you drive it, it looks just exactly as congested as the lanes below because there's no incentive not to be up there. Lots of utilities on May Hill as well, but we're on track for that. So the merge project is that's a project from where the 235s come together all the way up to 77. Again, the right-of-way will be done in April. We think we will have the plans done by May of next year and the utilities are the driver on the let date. We have confidence that we'll hit that August 2023 and the project will let in September and it is fully funded at that $400-ish million price tag. So on this from the merge to 380, what you'll see, you may not notice this when you're driving south on 35, but when you drive south on 35 at 407, you'll notice that the 407 bridge is significantly larger than what it needs to be right now because it's the ultimate width when the four managed lanes are going to be in place. So they're building 35 from the merge to 380 in its ultimate configuration. So it will have the room for the managed lanes. They'll just simply have them barricaded off. Interim, I think we just wanted to keep that in here because we feel so good about how well it's working. That actually, they had some things they had to do at the very end of the project here at the intersection on the striping because right before, the two lanes could turn and right now it's the left U-turn, the straight left and then the line that used to turn left and go through is now just through and since there's three lanes on the other side, everybody's still trying to make that three-way turn. So we're putting signs further back to tell everybody that the right lane is for turning right or through and not turning left and we're trying to solve that. It is so much better than it was. Absolutely. You really heard us and did it and I think it's great. Then your northern section, it has officially been broken down. It's actually three segments, although there are four. The purple segment will be built with 455. So we're building 455 from basically the high school east of 35 all the way out to Bolivar as a six-lane divided urban and we'll build the interchange with 455 because it'll get there before the 35 job starts, which is currently we're going to be ready to let in December next year. We've got to work out the funding timing because it's $800 million and they're allocated in those two fiscal years and if we can, we'll move it up. Lots of utilities on this one. 35W frontage roads, so not really a lot to tell you other than the tech stock canceled their negotiations with HNTB because they couldn't come to a dollar amount, they negotiated with WSP. They have come to a dollar amount and now they're doing the executing of the paperwork, so probably by next month we'll be able to have a note in here saying the WSP is our contract and we will have a stakeholders meeting with them fairly quickly because everything 407 north is what they're going to be focused on and the city didn't have a lot of development along that corridor that needs to be kept in the loop, so hopefully next month we'll be able to provide that information. 380 US 377 section currently under construction. We're talking about being done next year, tech stock report, construction report. Basically what we've asked the tech stock to do is as soon as they get that bridge abutment shoring done, and they get the center median up to let us know so we can get that information out to the public because that's the safety issue on that project is getting that center barrier up. And then we had a ribbon cutting for this section, no groundbreaking, always get those confused. When we did 121, Commissioner Jacobs was a commissioner there and we got a big ribbon and we got an 18 wheeler and she drove it through, can't do that stuff anymore. So we're under construction, most of the work is your SW3P, you're pulling up some of the old pavement on the south side because they're going to be doing all the, they moved everything to the north and they're going to do all the work on the south side and then flip the traffic to the other side. But again, it's got a May at 25 time frame, there is a ton of utilities that we had to deal with on a daily basis that aren't where they said they'd be. Feasibility studies done. They're recommending that the widening of 380 occur on 380 and that loop 288 and that brown section be turned into a freeway section by adding frontage roads. So excuse me, I'm sure you've covered this, you must have, you know, in many meetings in the past and it didn't occur to me today how much I have not actually mentally processed this. Why are we doing a feasibility study when we've already got the two segments that are kind of on the track? That's the interim. So what's the relationship? That's the interim. So what happened was is we, about six years ago, kept telling everybody seven years ago that 380 needs to be a freeway and we actually ended up, Collin County was studying there years before they got everybody mad at them, they decided they weren't going to do a freeway and so we took our money back and said we're going to study it to do a freeway and what we found out is is we don't have time because Cog at the time was saying no, it doesn't need to be a freeway to convince everybody. So what we decided to do was an interim job. So what we're building right now is a super street, six lanes in each direction and great separations at the five major cross sections, all of which is a throwaway, right? So if we do a freeway, all that gets torn out and we have a 400 to 500 foot footprint that essentially destroys everything along that corridor and then we come back in with a freeway. And the two entities that are most impacted are Little Elm and Crossroads because that's where the Wal-Mart is and the Prairie House and all that stuff, all that stuff is, it's a historical marker, it just doesn't know it yet. So the feasibility was, okay, we know we're doing the interim and that's just going to stopgap us for 10, 12 years, what's next? The next is do we leave 380 alone and build another road somewhere else, i.e. the outer loop or some interim arterials, which we were calling the integrated corridor at some point. And the decision was made is you need both the outer loop and 380 because the traffic on 380 is never going to leave 380. That's where they're going to be. So we've made the call from the county and we've talked to the cities along the corridor and so what counties offer to Crossroads and Little Elm is those areas where they are economically impacted because all that commercial property goes away. If they can find areas in their communities elsewhere that are viable commercial entities and they're lacking infrastructure, then the county will use their bond program to build the infrastructure in those areas so they won't oppose us like McKinney and Prosper are opposed in a freeway in Collin County. So the county just buys loyalty whenever they can and that's what we're going to do. So this is a freeway feasibility, not the interim project they're building now. This is probably more of a comment than a question. I learned, I believe yesterday, that Jerry Jones has purchased a significant amount of land that's north of Sanger and I can just imagine kind of where that Walmart distribution center is and so I could just, I'm just seeing the growth in my head that that's going to be something significant for us to consider when we're talking about moving a major roadway north, keeping 380 as 380 for what it's going to be in 10 to 12 years, but also having to deal with anything that's north of here. So I can't remember if we have the outer loop on this list, but we'll figure it out in a minute when I get to the end. Denton County has hired LJA, same time they hired Pacheco Cope to do the brown section for the loop 28 main lanes, frontage roads I mean, to do the outer loop from the Collin County line to Milam, which is where the city of Denton has it on their thoroughfare plan. There are three points we have to hit, where Collin County hits our county line with their alignment because they're already building it, the 428 crossing of the greenbelt because it's the only place the Corps will allow us to cross the greenbelt and then Milam Road because that 35 job I just showed you that we're building, it builds the box for the outer loop direct connects with that project. So those are three points you've got to hit. My daddy says if you're moving your hands, you're preaching, so I've got to stop doing that. That's okay. Not the preaching part. So the outer loop, we've got LJA on contract and we'll start that next month and we'll have stakeholder meetings because there's a lot of residents out there, 30 or 40, that have big land swaths and they want to keep it rural. But we will open the DNT 4B is what it's called from 428 all the way to the Grayson County line. Collin County is building the northbound frontage road in their county and so the toll road will go from wherever it starts in the south all the way to Grayson County and there were only eight property owners along that corridor and they're all huge developers and they're fixing to blow and go and what the feasibility said is between the county line and pilot point, I mean 377, 380 and the outer loop on the north, in the next ten years we're going to be putting 90,000 people in that little box. So the infrastructure is needed. We're doing 1385, 2931, we're doing the design on those right now from the county standpoint. Lots going on in this area. Speaking of the loop, this is the western section, this is Chain Patel, we continue to just work through the design issues, there's a lot going on out there and again we've got a long lead, the design's not the critical path item, the long lead is the right of way acquisition and the utility relocations because of all of the gas wells and the transmission lines that we have to address going through that corridor so if we get those done sooner, we can let the project sooner and then FM 1515 is the project that LTRA is doing, it widens to six lanes, we've got the re-eval completed and we are moving forward with the design and the same with 1173. We're trying to hit a, which is going to be kind of hard, July/August time frame for what's called plans adequate for this project and literally we've just got half the associates on contract like yesterday so they've got a lot of work to do to get those 60% plans but the reason we want to hit 60% plans this summer is because Textile wants to go ahead and start acquiring the utilities and moving the utilities because they're going to try to do 1173 and I know it's going to sound funny but that 47 million is spilt concrete for that billion-dollar job that we're going to do on 35 so we want to try to get 1173 done consistent with timing of 35, that's why they have to hit that deadline. And then we get to where I know nothing. You know more than you want to say, no I'm kidding. We're having follow-up meetings, we've had several with Textile, we are continuing the coordination with this section, I'm working on what are the next steps so I anticipate we've had multiple meetings, we've received a set of preliminary plans, the city is working through the next steps and I anticipate between John, myself and Travis Campbell and then our streets department that we will be having an update. My hopes are by next month so the district engineer for Textile is coming tomorrow to visit, this is one of the locations he's coming to visit so we're working to have that conversation prior to his arrival tomorrow so just wanting, we're continuing to work through the process to make sure that we're getting the final pavement repair in this area and then also looking at of course the project that would be, that needs to be constructed to the north of this area. Yeah Moe Burr is a district engineer, I think that once he sees the road that he will spur, motivate and encourage his staff to get things done on it. As I recall last meeting the sort of big topic was agreeing to what standards or kind of what spec the roads would be finished to, has any of that sort of been ticked off at this point or are you closer to agreement on those points? We are working through that, they understand our concern, the situation of which we're in is trying to, the standard that Textile would use for this typical type of maintenance repair is different than the standard of which the city would be comfortable with and so they are entertaining the depth of pavement repair that we feel like is necessary in this area and those are the conversations that we're having because before we agree to take over this roadway I want to feel confident that we're getting the depth of pavement repair we anticipated. They are absolutely open to those conversations and that's the purpose of the collaboration that we're continuing and then before Mr. Burr gets here that's why we've been working to have that conversation just so we understand that we're all on the same page. I would say that yes they are much more comfortable and open to, I mean we're talking about a difference between two inches and six inches of asphalt pavement repair and so what they originally proposed is unacceptable but they are open to the conversation. And our fallback is that they really can't force us to take it back, right, so if they build it to something other than what we're comfortable with we just simply don't take it. Yeah, so we have some leverage. I want to have a realistic expectation and you know my experience now being on council my fourth year you know it's seeing like how long things actually take like Hickory Street like thank goodness, right, where it's supposed to be done done done this month is that still a fair expectation? Yes, sir. It's still there. It's still the plan. Yeah, but you know it's taken a long time. I think it's been it's taken all the time I've been on council for it to be done. So what is a realistic expectation once you get agreement like we're kind of talking about how do we get to starting but you know is it four years? No if we get it if we get to an agreement soon and by like I'm saying in the next couple of months or so or a month or so we're in the pavement season and so they'll do a maintenance contract that's the intent and they'll have a maintenance contract and then go and get somebody on on contract fairly quickly they'll have a contingency right because when you take off the top layer they might find more problems than they thought so they always add a contingency to it so we're gonna agree on a percentage then there's gonna be a contingency on top of that and so that's what we're gonna solve in the next couple of days but if we get it solved we're in the paving season or beginning and I'm saying we're gonna get it done this year and we'll stick to it yeah okay we may not resolve the turn back issue but we can but it'll be drivable without hazard to people's cars if y'all know Moe Burr he's got kind of a temper and I think when he sees that road he's gonna not be happy yeah good I'm not happy when I see that road either and I just want to mention also it's not just those sections of Elm and Locust it's also that section of Eagle Drive between Locust and Elm and you know with the turn back conversations that we're currently having we're not looking at taking Eagle over because that will be the only connection between Dallas Drive and 377 so the anticipation also is you know how do we facilitate that turn back where it includes all of the sections all the way up to 380 with knowing that there's additional improvement measures that need to be made from a water wastewater and drainage perspective on that northern section so yeah we've done quite a bit of research and had multiple conversations and I will tell you textile is just as interested as the city is making this solution I just want to feel like that we're comfortable with the solution that we move forward with we don't want a solution that's going to need to be redone 10 years from now five okay so I'm at glossary do you all want me to include the outer loop because we have that report we can just throw in there because it does impact y'all yeah definitely and I think that probably be a good idea especially because we're gonna we're starting to see developments along the corridor there'll be some projects that come to council in the next the next council meeting in that area with the Milam Road and the 35 so I think that'd be fine John to include it and the reason we're doing a full-on environmental on it is because that's the only way legally to protect the corridor and I know it's gonna be a rough three years and you know probably it's gonna be an issue in the county's bond package because the Senator Springer and Representative Patterson had a public meeting town hall last night about it and they had about 40 people show up and they were all opposed to it which is not unusual I mean I've been in a public hearing for 2499 section 4 where there were 1,300 people there and they were all wearing red shirts saying stop 2499 so it's not an insurmountable issue it's just we have to go through the process and the only way to do it and be able to protect the corridor is an environmental clearance so the county is going to do the heavy lifting and it'll make it protectable for all communities along the corridor when you say protect the corridor what do you so right now if you have a property owner who wants to develop and you can't stop him because it's zone for that and he does all the right things and he wants to put it happens to be right over the alignment we can't stop him we'd have to move the road because he has property rights but once it's environmentally cleared and the feds say that's the alignment they can no longer plat anything do anything to that that part of it they they still can sell it right to the state or whoever but they can't develop it this is a good example of hearing what you want to hear when you said doing the environmental study to protect the corridor I thought you meant to protect the environment along the corridor yeah but now you mean to protect the route yes okay we understand the environment the environmental process is wrought with words that don't mean what they mean because when you go to a public hearing they're you they're not there to hear you you're going to say what you're going to say and they're going to do what they want to do because it's done by then but if it's a public meeting when you're just meeting they're going to hear what you say and make changes to it that's super helpful yeah it's interesting I count on the ambiguity yeah okay great thank you any other questions I have number bird that close I want to go back and talk about I 35 at the 380 and this is going to be for the south entrance getting on to 35 from three from 380 okay and I've noticed or I don't know it's it's nagging at me that there have been some collisions at that entrance as a matter of fact we had a police officer that got hit by a car and so is that would you all take a look at that and look at some data and I agree with you because I come from didn't Decatur I mean I come from the Decatur area all the time yeah and when you make that on ramp yeah cuz I'm trying to go 35 a which means I'm cutting across in about 500 feet three lanes of traffic right so the traffic coming from the south is doing 70 miles an hour and it's it is harrowing the traffic coming from the north yeah I'm assuming you're saying that you're going southbound yeah coming from the north and you're trying to get on to the yeah either 35 w 35 a right yeah it's it's something kind of going on in that area I don't know I don't just think there's a lot of people a little bit of area but we'll look at it take a look at that even with my own experience trying to get on there you got somebody that's going awfully slow because they don't know whether or not to stay in the left in the right lane and then by the time you make a decision to get over in your left lane 18 wheeler that is just like a pickup truck yeah a pickup truck so I'd appreciate that if you add that to your list of things to take a look at okay thank you all right we will move on to item B receiver report and hold the discussion regarding updates from the Denton County Transportation Authority DCT a welcome back he stayed he stayed for two absolutely absolutely okay good morning well it's good to be back with you this morning I'm here to provide you an update from DCT a on the public involvement process that we have underway for our comprehensive operations analysis that includes a look at the future of our fixed route and on-demand service as well as the fare structure so the comprehensive operations analysis process is going to go through these four main steps that will allow us like you see at the headline there to create an integrated multimodal transportation system that is comprised of fixed route go zone and the a train so what we're doing right now is analyzing our connect ridership to understand highest times of demand across all the routes on the bus network we're looking at the go zone data that we've collected since the service launched in September to understand where riders are summoning rides and being picked up and then dropped off to understand travel patterns we're figuring out and understanding how our fare design can can impact rider behavior and where possible encourage the use of fixed routes and we're doing this while also holding a number of public meetings and other public forums to gain feedback from the people who use the service so that ultimately when the service decisions are made that the public has the opportunity to to weigh into those even better thank you. So when we talk about fare structures here are the different alternatives that we're looking at number one is an alternative that says a flat fare and that's basically what exists today 75 cents to ride go zone a dollar fifty to ride connect in the first half of the day and no matter how far you go you you pay one price a distance based fare is one in which you get onto a go zone vehicle primarily and there's a a fee for the amount of distance you cover while in the vehicle think most likely of a taxi cab or an uber service something like that and then a hybrid fare model is a combination of those two where there's a fixed fare for certain trips maybe within a certain mileage zone and then beyond that mileage zone then you would get to a place where the fare is variable based on mileage also in this structure is going to be conversation around what does a fare free option look like as has been requested by our board that we as we go through the process. So here's what our public involvement process looks like right now we're in the process like I said of reviewing services and fare models and in gaining general feedback we launched a microsite at DCTA feedback net earlier this week it went live on Monday and it's going to run through Tuesday May the 17th if people go to DCTA feedback net they can have a number of different options in order to provide comments they can fill out a survey about their ridership experience on DCTA they can go to an interactive map and put pins on the map and identify points of interest and things that are interested in relative to specific routes and locations in the service area there's an idea wall that allows people to post just like what it says their ideas and then there's a place for just general comments that runs right now like I said through May the 17th and then when that period is complete then our staff will take all of the feedback that's collected there plus in a number of the public forums that we have set up and we'll talk about those in a minute so that they can assimilate that information and share it with our board as our board makes the final decisions about the service as it will be offered in the future that's scheduled right now for our June board meeting and then wanted to provide this for you and recognize the text is a little small on the screen so if you needed a handout and don't have it we'd be happy to provide it but this is a number of events that are upcoming for Denton residents you see they are a number of virtual town halls starting next week and then we'll have a table set up at the Denton community market on April the 30th a virtual town hall on May the 5th will be present at the Denton veterans coalition meeting in May with a presentation another virtual town hall on May the 10th an in-person public meeting on May the 11th will be at social service agencies on the 12th and then to be determined what we'll be doing for bike to work day and national trails day we have similar type of events planned for the other areas of our of our service and so again the intent is to provide people as many opportunities as possible to speak into our process just want to point out Wednesday is not April 25th April 25th is not a Wednesday thank you for that I don't know if maybe this is the only place if this is the only place that's wrong it doesn't matter yeah 27th we'll make sure that's corrected thank you house members we still we still up to questions now or yes sir do anything I'm good okay I've never a number of things I appreciate you coming here and coming back I'm I'm very interested in the analysis to come and the feedback on whether some or all that becomes you know fair free I think anything that makes the ride experience predictable is probably encourage ridership I know there's some areas where you maybe want to discourage ridership so you know that's just you know my you're going to hear from lots and lots of people I'm just one there are a number of issues that aren't kind of in the context of the fair topic that I'd love to follow up with you from last time sure you were brand new in the role now I expect you know every answer because you've been in it for a month what has have you been able to determine if the contract with via has in it service level agreements on wait times on safety on disability access so up to this point those things have been spoken to but not specifically addressed what we'll hear in this month's board meeting is an opportunity for the board to make a decision on additional service that goes on would provide and I did and that the opportunity to talk about commitments to those sorts of things if we sign up for this amount of service then these are service levels that we would expect like here's our wait time here's our seat on availability here's our safety standard all that sort of thing we do have some of that teed up for this month's board meeting yeah that's that's that's great that's exactly my thought if you know if you're kind of opening it up again let's you know kind of make a better contract and just by the way to give a little context I came today by by a go-zone to City Hall and I would say there's overall a very good experience and the riders I spoke with and the driver were super enthusiastic but part of it is they've adjusted to an expectation it's not really on demand it's kind of schedule it when I ask schedule on demand the estimate given to me was 30 minutes which was great because I needed 30 minutes to get ready to go and then actuality was 38 minutes so it's like a low bar which was fine for me but then didn't meet that bar but the you know other aspects were awesome so yeah just you know if we can be clear with the public and it works for them I mean it's totally solving problems for at least two riders three really including me so SLAs the the pay disparity on drivers issue will that come up because it's you know what I took away from our conversation last time in part was we're shrinking routes because of driver shortages we have driver shortages because we don't pay as much as there are other opportunities so it's almost like if you were planning to shrink routes you would do that like we know we know way the drivers so that eventually they all go away but you know if we don't want to do that and we actually want to flush it out then we'd want to pay comparably so any thoughts on whether that's gonna come up or so you're you're speaking to fixed route yeah okay so we have not gotten into by the way my goes on driver was incredibly happy about her compensation okay great well thank you thank you for that feedback we appreciate it on the on the fixed route driver pay side we have not gotten in that conversation yet because we are anticipating what will become of the bus service and what that service will look like in the future anecdotally is all is all that we have right now we have heard I have understood again not getting into the numbers that while our pay and darts pay might look different or our pay and Trinity Metro's pay might look different when you we look at total compensation that is what those people pay for benefits in in those agencies versus our agency there's some differences there that might be favorable to us and so that's part of the conversation and another part of the conversation is there's there's shortages across the industry right now and that you see that as Dart is now offering I think I saw an ad last week for driver bonuses up to $2,000 to sign on to be a new driver and so as we think about what is the or decide what is the the future of our bus service looks like then we obviously have to match our workforce to meet that we're in we find ourselves in a position right now where we we have enough drivers to deliver the service but we don't have the healthy extra what's called an extra board where when people lay off because they're ill or unable to work that we'd be able to bring in others so we find ourselves with a little bit of a gap there but again still able to deliver the service and we anticipate that'll get a little bit better as we move into the summer and some of the route some of the route demand drops off but I would say our focus first on what is the service and then how do we make sure that we can deliver that service as effectively as possible and I think the driver compensation comes there I'm ready you know I don't have to keep barreling through it's like if my questions make you want to jump in that's fine otherwise I'll keep going you have something you want to jump in yeah I got more but I'll keep going okay you got more okay so I'll just start with I'll start with just stating that because we all feel entitled we're in the land of entitlement although we have significant number of shortages in personnel we're still trying to build up our numbers in terms of finances you know it's all coming along it's it's humming along but we're we know that we have shortages in looking for employees everywhere yes ma'am but there's so many jobs and there's you know so much need but that brings me back to the scheduling part listening to this fair gentleman here mayor pro tem chair of this committee noting that his ride was a little bit late I think that's from what I've heard from folks that talk to me and put a bug in my ear that that's a big consternation for not wanting this service is because it's you know it's you got to walk down the road and then they're late it's there as you're waiting for them for it so you put that in your head I know that you already have it there but that right there is so I know that that that's probably the number one thing that I've heard for anyone that's spoken with me on that I want to talk about your propaganda I mean I have DCTA pulled up on my phone right now I'm going to tell my constituents to go ahead and go over here and make their statements about it as soon as I get through talking out I'll let them know over here but I just don't seem like it just doesn't seem like to me as I travel around the city I'm not reminded of DCTA until I see one of the cars and I just seem like I need to be just bombarded so I can be reminded that we do have a process you know a system like this we're still car riders you know I might hop in my car and just go a mile you know up to wherever but I think maybe you all can do a better job in the propaganda part you know putting reminding us through not only just Facebook and you know social media or whatever but a billboard or something you know just letting us know and reminding us of the service putting something in the newspaper I still receive the newspaper a couple of times a week I know it's digital but we still have and that's for those people that don't have the digital capability I never see anything come through there to remind me so I don't know am I wrong how are you all doing on that this is your perspective is one that's shared by a lot of people who I speak with including members of our board and so one of the things we'll talk about we're going to have an update an agenda item this at this month's board meeting about our public communications plan for this go zone service redesign or rather our overall service redesign in addition to just generally how does DCTA present itself to the community we're going to talk about our budget for advertising where we spend those dollars and what the impressions are that we get back and and as the to the to the extent of that sentiment exists across the members of our board if there's decisions that are to be made about how we change our approach of advertising or amplify our approach to advertising certainly I would expect that to come up one of the biggest things that I could leave you with today is you know this public involvement process and that and that is the aspirational long-term thing we're on a fiscal year that ends September 30th we're about to go into budget season so if we want to talk about how do we get more advertising out there this is exactly the right time to do it one of the things that I want to leave you with today though is our desire in the near term to get really good feedback from the public involvement process and so whatever you all can do to amplify that message and put it out to your constituents and and tell us if there's other things on that that we should be present at please tell us and we'll do whatever we can to make sure that we can get some sort of coverage there but we're trying to make this a collaborative and cohesive effort across our entire service area so certainly appreciate that perspective and understand where you're coming from I initially you know what I initially heard about it I was a constituent up in arms but right now as we've come along in the process I you know warmed up to the idea that we need do need to have different you know modes of travel that's going to try to accommodate as many people as again in the way that they want to be accommodated so I appreciate the system I don't I don't appreciate failure so whatever we can do to make sure that everybody's getting what they need I'm all for that in it so the next question is do you all have employees that use their own vehicles their personal vehicles or is everyone in a goes on vehicle are you referring to via drivers via drivers the so the goes on vehicles are fleeted or a fleet that via uses leverages avis to provide a fleet of vehicles okay so the short answer is no they're not personal vehicles okay thank you that's all I have so good I meant I imagine you might have other things to do in life than following our proceedings minute by minute but did you happen to follow the discussion yesterday a little bit yes sir so so you know you heard the focus on crash data and the concern about that hence you know my questions about do we have service level agreements but the discussion yesterday was about whether whether and how there should be you know a board request to investigate this but I wonder if as management you've already taken any steps to you know analyze the crash and safety data and related to that do you think there's a need for an independent review and a consultant of any kind or you know how how are you looking at that issue now so we we are we are thinking about this currently there'll be some discussion about safety performance in our board meeting this month federal transit administration tracks incident data on incidents per 100,000 mile vehicle mile basis that's that allows us to baseline performance across services where volumes might be different be a ridership or mileage or whatever it is and so we report we already report that data to the FDA the nature of on-demand transit service is it's fairly new in the marketplace and so FDA is is really now figuring out what this looks like and how do we track these sorts of things what we're trying to do in the conversation will tee up is about how to be able to create a baseline evaluation that allows us to look at performance relative to all the rest of our modes and so it is it is something that we're looking at and like said expect we'll see if some more conversation on it this month's board meeting that happens a week from tomorrow great I have one more if I may just just a pure speculation now occasionally we hear from people who are engaged with public transit and and concerned about current low ridership on connect and you know we hear others two per hour five per hour on some routes would it ever be part of the solution set that you consider to have the same driver same page same everything but would there be any benefit to right right sizing right sizing the vehicle in terms of fuel usage environmental impact impact on roads I mean given that there is a fleet of vans yeah they're there for you know I don't know you see where I'm going yes sir I do and the concept of right sizing the the product for the demand is something that also is going to be in this month's conversation we've been able to get so a pretty granular look at our connector out data not just by route but also by route by time of day that allows us to see where demand is peaking and where it seems efficient more efficient and less efficient to offer that product and and so again well I expect that we'll have a good conversation about that next week I know we have a great representative who will report back to us and from people here from two sources so that's right anything else anyone else thank you so much I really appreciate you giving us a chance to have you know these ongoing discussions no problem thank you all for having me have a great day thank you bye bye oh wait one last question what can we do to help yeah is there anything we can do to help thank you for that question um thank you for all the questions thank you especially for that one thank you especially for that one one kind question so the the theme that I am bringing with me in this interim role that I find myself in is one of alignment and it's really important that our agency is aligned with our member cities and the county and all of our stakeholders and that doesn't require a hundred percent agreement on all the issues but it means that there's a chunk of issues and a chunk of things that we can't agree and align upon and so the opportunity to engage in that dialogue in a constructive and effective manner is the biggest thing part of the way to do that is to help us echo the opportunity for this public engagement process as we think about what the future of fixed route service looks like the opportunity to have conversations with city staff as we come up with some ideas and say hey what if this is what data tells us but you know the story behind the data so let's talk about what that what that is and we can incorporate that as well that that's where that's where the value add can can be and so i've had been in contact with sarah and i'll be seeing david hopefully here in a few minutes as i go back to our offices and we'll talk about how we how we might be able to get together and do those have those sorts of conversations coming up in early may after we get through this board meeting i certainly have my my pledge to amplify the call for public involvement and i'm confident that my colleagues will do that as well okay thank you yep thank you all okay we're ready for item d receive a presentation and hold a discussion regarding king's way development as it relates to the overall development approval process existing traffic conditions project traffic impacts slash mitigations and capital improvement projects you're trying to drag it that drag that out thank you thank you good morning pre-tendation transportation planning thank you for the opportunity to present this item chair members of the committee oops it's been a while since i've been here so i'm here to talk about this particular item i do have it's a tech team presentation i do have julie here i'm not expert in planning and development as it goes so she'll be helping me with some of the aspects of the presentation the way it's set up i'll start with the presentation julie jump in for a couple slides and then i'll wrap it up if you have any questions feel free to jump in and ask those questions so here's a quick overview we will be looking at the timeline some background history talk specifically about the king's way development project traffic is obviously the primary concern most of the times any development goes in and then what are the rights that come with new development projects and they their proportionality or responsibilities towards public infrastructure so here's a this is the question that was asked how did we get here and a brief history or timeline of this particular development i want to start here at the bottom if you look at the parcel map back in 1986 this particular area you can see king's row here's 428 just to align everyone in this room and then this is the plot that came in this is the area of request so that was subdivided you see there is no loop 288 in this map and here's an aerial that kind of goes with it i kind of drew the alignment where the loop would would exist at the time but it was not existing and you can see kings row kind of making that angle and going and connecting to this newly plotted subdivision back in the day by 1995 you can see this is an aerial loop came in text doc constructed the loop they created that intersection with the existing king's way which was right here didn't exist and then it was followed by in 2002 this land was already zoned for residential development so i'm talking about all of this area that's on this side was already zoned for residential development and early 2000 everyone knows things started accelerating within the denton county and counties around us and development picked up city when the plans would come in when development would come in if it would fall within the zoning and you know it kind of was approved through all the criteria that the city had city was obligated to get those plans approved and this was followed by state some state legislature that limited the cities to really control the capabilities to address land uses within the etj and the reason i bring it up is if you can follow the cursor this is the boundary back in 1986 and early days this is the city boundary you can see that it follows the 428 but then it ends and this at the time was etj so that's that's kind of important to know that there are parcels back in the day they were in the etj and now they may be in the city but we do have a lot of parcels in the etj so kings way development particularly the current zoning if you may back in 2002 as i mentioned it was platted but the established zoning at the time was neighborhood residential four and neighborhood residential and mixed to use 12 the reason the number four and 12 are interesting because i just learned that is you could develop four lots in an acre and then 12 lots in an acre so i'm getting there slowly and then the so this happened in 2002 and then that with our updates and all the dvc updates we the zoning updates that we had we transitioned those particular types of land uses to r4 and r7 so you can see it's kind of hard to see here but if you zoom in into the small little map here there's a little piece down here which looks like this that's an r7 and then the rest of this was r4 zone so based on the current zoning that we have a developer can come in and if he follows all the rules and criteria manuals and regulations they can easily add a 328 single-family residential and residential mixed use lots within that particular development and this and for this particular development a plenary plat was approved back in november of last year so i wanted to touch on traffic as i mentioned during the conversations that multiple conversations we have had about the development a big component was the school traffic circulation that was brought up a lot of residents showed up and they discussed how all the school traffic the traffic related to school was backed up and it was really difficult for anyone to get through this area so a little bit of history and background on most of the schools that we currently have all the schools that were planned back in 1990 and before they were designed so that particularly designed for people or students to walk to school there was no driving involved or if a school had a larger area attendance area they were bussed so there was really two only options so when a school was designed it was never designed to accommodate stacking accommodate queuing accommodate parents waiting and parents dropping kids off so that none of these were as part of the design features implemented as such after the 1990s the trend changed and a lot of people are now moving and parents don't want their kids walking to school it's that whole the the paradigm has shipped where parents want to drop their kids off and all of the schools it's not just this one school or several schools in the city it's throughout the nation i came here from california few years ago i had the same issues and problems in in schools there all elementary schools are facing the same issue is how do we deal with this influx of traffic and parents which mind me i mean it doesn't last a whole lot long it is 15 to 30 minutes depending on the school and the attendance number of students attending the school so and and it is also not during the regular peak hours which are after 4 30 so it's a really brief short period of time where things back up so what i have we have done in the past we've worked with multiple schools throughout the city and everywhere else is we come over the plan we work with pd staff our engineering staff is also involved and then we talked to the principal come up with some solutions of how can we address this safely create some space for people to wait and as you can see i've pointed out in the slide these roadways that are designed the deerwood parkway as well as grant parkway all of them were wide roadways designed so you have space on one side and we've worked with schools to reserve that space during that particular school hours if we don't allow parking there then the parents can actually wait there to pick up their kids so that's a solution that we've come up as an interim in the long term what we're doing is we're working with schools and creating more areas for actually stacking and on site and creating that drop off areas better drop off in circulation areas so that's what these this was the issue that was brought up and we have particularly this school we've worked with the principal our pd staff has worked with them and come up with a safer solution a safe solution for everyone to get in and out of this neighborhood and with this i'm going to transition to julie i'm not there yet to talk about all of this planning stuff i'll get there soon good morning julie wyatt senior planner with the city of denton and i'm just going to take a brief moment to talk about development more generally so the city like all cities within the state of texas they get their authority to control development through really two tools within the texas local government code there are sections 211 and 212 one is zoning and y'all are familiar with that you see us come before you with with public hearings for rezoning zoning establishes the rules for the development of a site so when you look at our city you see all of the colors each of those colors corresponds to a zoning district and when within each of those districts our development standards it can can impact the permitted uses it can impact the the intensity of the development on the site so a lot setbacks building heights so those are the things that zoning controls now cities aren't required to have comprehensive plans but if they do have comprehensive plans their zoning should correspond with that comprehensive plan so zoning should look at our comp plan and it should follow that either in in terms of that future land use map or or other goals within that plan the zoning regulations can vary from district to district so for instance in the city of denton r4 requires a minimum lot size of 7000 square feet and a maximum building height of 40 feet but that can vary from different zoning districts so li will have a different lot size requirement or use permitted uses but they should correspond throughout the city so for instance r4 in the northeast side of town should be consistent in rules and application of those rules in the southeast part of town so it should it should broadly each of them should be the same throughout throughout the city so that's one of our tools within the toolbox that we have to affect development within our city now zoning is discretionary as you know you make decisions based upon the criteria for approval within the within the development code in our comprehensive plan our other tool however is ministerial and that is platting that is that technical document that establishes lot boundaries and provides for the orderly development of the city and extension of public improvements so when we look at a plat when a plat is submitted to the city of course we're looking to make sure that it conforms to that zoning those lot sizes are consistent with the zoning and we also look at that public improvement piece and while the plat is that document it's a it's a public document when it is a when that final plat is approved it's recorded at denton county but there is a a whole host of other documents that are in the background working on plats looking at those those streets water wastewater and drainage that really establish whether a development meets those standards within the city of denton so those are those are the two options that we have within the city to impact zoning and development rights and i just should should state that while zoning r4 is treated um the same uh on the northeast side of town as is the southeast side of town so those rules um do are are consistent um platting is one of those things that once a plat meets the technical requirements within the city of denton it has to be approved per state law so so just to keep that in mind so that was within the city but as as pretem mentioned we have a whole lot of etj particularly on the north side of our city as well as on the west side of our city and um and we still have one tool within the toolbox to impact that development but we don't have land use authority so we don't have zoning and so on your slide zoning is is grayed out that that is not with within our our grasp so we can't we can't regulate those permitted uses the development intensity the densities within the that etj but we do have within our etj one we have platting authority and once again we are looking at that technical document looking to make sure that there it facilitates the orderly development extends the roads or water and wastewater where necessary and once again it is that ministerial document that once it meets those technical requirements it does have to be approved by the planning and zoning commission or staff if it's an administratively approved plat um so those are the the two um elements related to development rights broadly and now i'm going to kick it back over to pretemps so he can talk about proportionality thank you julie and so one last piece remaining from the development perspective you saw what we could do as far as when the development comes in what rights we have and what rights they have uh the last piece to this is uh what is the the developer responsible for uh implementing or constructing or putting it together as far as public infrastructure is concerned so how much can a developer put in and that is uh pretty much proportional to the development that they're coming up with so here uh in the first bullet point i've kind of bolded the area which which talks about not just our code ddc but the texas uh local government code um section that really clearly defines that if a developer comes in and there is a certain cost of improving improvement for you know widening a roadway adding a lane adding a signal then the developer is only responsible for the proportion that he's adding so if a developer comes in he has 100 trips that are added and they're just adjacent roadway it has already has thousand trips he's only responsible for that 10 percent of the uh total uh change or development or upgrade needed so that's where uh it becomes tricky to implement the whole development when there is no remaining 90 percent cost identified right when the development is coming in so that's where um we're kind of bound by some of these rules and regulations of how we could implement um some of these improvements so just based on that what can we ask of the developer a lot of times we negotiate and say here this is these are the things that you need to implement in order to make it make a successful project and what they can do is up to that proportionality level they can implement certain infrastructure uh such as a lane or some of the signal improvements a partial signal improvement partial um putting in one left turn lane instead of the whole intersection getting widened so those are the things or the second option the developer has is to pay into the roadway impact fees so what that does is kind of puts the money in a puts the developer's money in a pot of money that the city can use at a later time to construct and build the infrastructure in that particular area so those are the two things either they go implement it immediately as part of their development some of the improvements that are in there or give it to the city as part of roadway impact fees and that's why those impact fees are so critical because they help us uh look at our infrastructure surrounding all these developer developments that are coming in and plan for for a better um network plan for a better uh public connections and transportation system in the area and that kind of wraps up what we have to say questions open for anything actually if i may uh i i really appreciate the just the grounding that you've given us uh and i really appreciate how much more julie knows than pre-tem but uh what do you what do you want from us what do you hope you know what would you like to uh have us do in this session just understand no it was more of an informational piece because a lot of times when the developments come in uh the question is always asked hey how much traffic is it impacting why aren't they fixing the current traffic issues because a lot of times the background is missing you tend to okay whatever is happening today needs to be fixed by the developer no it's more of yes as a city as a whole community we need to plan and fix it as a long-term project the developer is only intended to contribute towards the piece that he's adding so that that was more this is more of an answering your question and more educational it's nothing that uh it's there was no action needed at this point kind of expectation setting i appreciate you you clarifying that that the reason the developer is only responsible for their portion is because of the texas local government code not because that's just how we want it to be because of course we would not prefer for it to be that way we want the whole thing widened right yes that's from rebecca i'm a lifelong learner and i have really really appreciated this learning experience uh that you all have given us and um if you would go back to that picture that showed go back a little bit that showed the um area view that right there no back right there that's the one uh that captured my attention and so as as this uh community was um voicing its concern about this new development coming in i was a bit um i don't know what other word to use other than confused i was a bit confused as to what really was their issue was it the roadway or was it the fact that this development was coming in and i had even heard that they were concerned about the smaller houses you know they had gotten really really deep into you know into the situation that we don't want these little small houses why are they you know mistreating and so it was a variety of types of uh dwellings that were going to come in but i i was just it just seemed like they were more concerned about that point and what was going on in the development versus the roadway so now let me go back and put this on kindergarten level because that's where i am right now um just looking at that road right there i know that there was some plans that was going to happen with that kings is that kingswood row is that called kings row kings row something was gonna have to give in that area anyway at some point i think there was some concessions or something like that with the developer was going to add in additional lane um or left turn lane or right turn lane widen it out it was something that was going to change there but i don't know what is that other road that just goes kings road that ends dead ends there and then goes straight up and then turns left right at that parking lot where that school not right there go straight up go straight ahead that road and then that right there that's a paris road that's uh that's a road but there is a cafeteria that is at that school and i might be getting the the school uh mixed up because i'm thinking about evers elementary and this school is the exact same school same layout literally the same layout and so right now i might be getting uh confused because i have subbed at evers and i have subbed at this school numerous times and they literally look the exact same way to the flooring walls everything okay so i was wondering why haven't we given the the parents which by the way these are grandparents you're not necessarily parents these are grandparents that have a lot of time on their hands uh giving them the the opportunity to go straight down that kings road go back up to that right go up and come back in and pick those kids up from that cafeteria rather than picking them up from where i've even put kids in cars uh in the front part of that school that will clear up all of this consternation you know from this other street what's the name of that street going up through there that little curvy street this is grand parkway yeah and just run them back behind that have we had a discussion on that do you all know is this the right uh is this the right well we'd have to talk to the school about i know but they say that they do talk to the schools they have conversations with the schools to alleviate some of that traffic that sits there now here's my experience when i was a teacher out of savannah elementary school my classroom stay was in the back so i my classroom overlooked the back parking lot and that was also the pickup spot for the parents i could look schools out at 250 and look out my window and 150 one o'clock those parents are out there waiting it's always the same parents grandparents with their little puppy dogs and their cell phones so is there and i know they didn't come early what's the conversation on on something like that okay so you touched several points there are several people are going to answer bits and pieces of it let's put it all together i think becky may have some also to add and tina as well but as far as the circulation yes we have talked to the school principal what they're trying to do is when they come in this is a wider road you cannot really stack people here and still have access for the people that live around here so what they do is they come in here and then they leave using this path outside so none of the traffic will come back but becky may have more details about that so we've worked out a circulation school principal and staff is really happy with the way we've worked things out pd is happy because they are the ones that get called if there are issues enforcement issues they're always out there they also manage the crossing guard program so they also have people that the crossing guards giving them more information of what's happening so based on all of this they've worked up a solution and everyone with the school staff is happy with the way circulation and becky if you want to add anything i think you did a fabulous job the only thing i would add was with the conversations that we had we had actually come up with some alternative circulation patterns like you're discussing similarly and looked at several different options and when we had those conversations and nathan and i were both a part of those they really were happy with what pd had done and how they're on site they are actually have two stacking lanes that allows for children to be picked up and dropped off and the principal's main concern was the safety of the children and the teachers and that ability for them to have the children go into the vehicles as they're you know obviously leaving site so i will tell you that um you know through multiple conversations we said if you have concerns or this continues to cause issues please let us know and she said i don't want to make any modifications i'm very pleased with the way that it's operating right now and we're very pleased with pd's presence and she said you know it's our preference at this time to leave it the way we currently have it configured our teachers feel safe we feel like our students can be placed in their cars in a safe manner and she said really from a traffic flow perspective you know it's only just that certain time block of when people are sitting there and and i mean i've seen the same things myself with you know individuals getting there quite early i'd love to have that much time on my hands that i could sit there for an hour but not something i have time to do but you know i would just say that we have that constant conversation we actually meet monthly with disd2 and if there's opportunities or questions that are brought up um this same school is configured like several um in in the area so i think they found a you know a location and a site layout that worked for them and they like to replicate that um but you know i'll just tell you councilmember we had similar conversations so far as we actually had routing maps that we were putting together we had been planning to actually have a community meeting in this area and the principal said you know what we've solved these problems we've worked with the police department we're comfortable with the way that it's currently um circulating in this area and you know with that we took her word and and you know listened to her concerns and you know she was confident with what was happening but that door is always open if um you know she feels like that that that position changes but at this time we're very comfortable with what's happening in this area so what's why why are the people complaining so a couple things i mean when a new development comes in the most visible aspect is traffic everyone complains and a lot of times i want to point out it's a perceived uh issue not necessarily that it's congestion it's more of okay there was some operation deficiencies on the school traffic and now if we've fixed it there is no real capacity issues during the p cars people can really get in and out of this neighborhood so that's where the perception comes in for peak 15 minutes during off-peak cars school time yes there's congestion and everyone agrees that's all over us but so that was the main concern that they could only point out to us traffic but the issue and julie can answer better is the addition of these homes in the back it's like not in my backyard like any other person and then one more thing i think tina is here for that is that the improvements at that intersection were part of the plan development and do we can explain what a plan development is better but it was negotiated through that plan development and it is not currently or not required by any developer that comes in and wants to put in 328 homes under the zoning the traffic study clearly says that it's not required for that particular development so those improvements went away when the plan development was not approved and that's that's how it works when staff tries to put in as much as possible and get improvements in place sooner than later okay and by the way i do realize that this is not a mobility thing but i'm just just curious as to you know what was the big complaint other than the fact that it's a new neighborhood coming in well and in and as you just said it in this pre-tem pointed to and i guess my apologies tina fergans deputy director of development services for the record so many of the residents out there did not want the development at all okay so it goes back to as pre-tem said not in my backyard that that whole nimby aspect right and and that's something that we deal with on a regular basis a property owner that has zoning in place has development rights so they have the the ability to be able to develop their property okay texas is a very property rights friendly state and and as julie illustrated you know with the with the the framework of the texas local government code that we have to work within but what i would ask you though is as decision makers on city council is that look at the bigger picture right in this case with the plan development we were able to negotiate some of the additional improvements that the developer would otherwise not be required to do and in hindsight it's always 2020 right so we have the opportunity to sit back and reflect you know on this particular situation we knew that there were some challenges out there the developer was willing to offer up making certain improvements and one of the ways that we're able to get them to commit to making those improvements was in the plan development district ordinance the developer was also asking for some for some allowances as well you might view most trade-offs or additional entitlements however that case may be but they were also asking for to be able to deviate from the existing zoning you know in the end from a mobility standpoint where the plan development district was concerned we were going to get some additional improvements that we're not getting today but where i go back to is asking you all as elected officials is and to me this is remember this is the hand that we're dealt with okay this is how we got to where we are today we have other areas throughout the city where where we weren't as effective in our planning way back in the day that's not to say that the people in that are in our positions 20 years ago did not know what they were doing you know they were making decisions based upon their crystal ball that they had at that time based upon trends and development that they were seeing happening and trying to plan accordingly for it today you know we're similar situation right we're dealing with some of those decisions that were made back then we're dealing with how property has developed over time and so we're dealing with the constraints that that we have we try to be influential where we can be but but what i would ask you to take into consideration is when the not in my backyard or folks in opposition to just development in general don't want it to happen they're going to come at you and they're going to try and find any little item that they can to chisel away at the request to to help better make their position on why this is why this development would be a bad thing for the area you know we're we're looking at it from a standpoint of okay if this development is going to happen making sure that we can one that our development requirements are being met to are we making sure that the improvements are being done in the best interest of the city so what i ask you to balance what we as your professional staff are telling you in balance that with what the the feedback that you're getting from the residents i would ask you look at the bigger picture you know and looking at identifying where the improvements that we're trying to make this also goes back to the conversations that we had when we were working on the mobility plan and the comprehensive plan and getting that adopted i know there was some concern regarding adding certain roadways within our mobility plan network but as i shared with you back then and i'll reiterate today if we don't try to plan for the future now then we're setting ourselves up for challenges much later on much of like what we're dealing with today as mr pollster mentioned when he was here earlier you know in their analysis of 380 the cars aren't going anywhere right they're going to continue to add to the area and so how best do we plan for the improvements that we have the ability to influence so i just ask you keep that bigger picture in mind as you're considering these development requests that come before you look to see okay what are what are the positives that we could potentially get out of it i know plan development districts are sometimes seen as the the evil zoning right because the developers want something out of it but realize that there could be some good things that we're getting out of it as well but i think it's multifaceted one we need to think long term we have to think bigger picture we need to try to plan as best as we can for our community as we look to the future we're making decisions today regarding development that may not happen you know 10 years from now could be 20 years from now you know our dent in 2040 plan right we're trying to project that far ahead so just ask you to keep that bigger picture framework but also when we come to you and we're telling you this is why we believe we need to plan for certain infrastructure within these areas of our community that there's there's a reason why we're making those recommendations to you if i may as long as we're having a little group therapy you know a key word in describing our position is elected and i absolutely take responsibility to as i see the need you know to try to lead and challenge you know the community but you know it's within the context of representing the community right so i don't have the the privilege when there's a massive uh constituent concerns to to kind of wave it off and say nimby you know i mean it's to me it's my job to understand what's what's the legitimate driver i mean people aren't you know they don't take time out of their lives when they could be just doing anything else uh you know just with no reason at all uh and and they maybe maybe there are places where we're there's a reason to question whether there should be development or not and i and i and i get the message that yeah it doesn't mean it's all in the developer to fix it but they're coming to us to say you know help this doesn't make sense to us okay if it should be you know more of a city wide and a coordinated response and long-term short-term okay however it needs to be done but uh yeah i just you know uh i can't just wave them off that's not our job well and that's why i go back to it it's a balanced effort right in trying to make that decision and i don't envy you because you you are in a difficult position right um you have a team of professionals that's providing their best professional recommendations to you but you also have your elected constituents right so the folks that voted you into office so you're trying to be respective and listening to them in trying to balance their concerns with also then the request that's coming before you and then the professional recommendations you're receiving so you're in a definitely a challenging position right and know that you know with our team our goal is so as long as you feel a little bit bad for us i've had people say to me why don't you run for city council where you live and i'm like no i work with them on a regular basis and know the challenges that they go through so but um but but you are you you definitely have that difficult decision um or that in in challenging responsibility associated with the decisions that you're after you're having to make so you know know that with our team we're trying to give you the best information available for you to make informed decisions and so that that's our goal is that you're able to make informed decision at the end of the day if you're not wanting to vote in favor you know as long as you're making an informed decision and we've given you the best information as possible make that decision that that's the goal that i have for my team in in being able to assist you so but it's it's um but i just like i said disaster remember you know that you're right we the developer is not going to be able to fix all the problems within an area that's why we try to have the foresight our team collectively on being able to plan appropriately whether it's roadway infrastructure water and wastewater infrastructure land use development whatever um you know other city facilities fire stations police stations whatever the case may be you know we're trying to look ahead and and make the best possible decisions for our community so that we can advise you accordingly i just want y'all to remember that i did grudgingly vote for the i just remember you did because i had i had to listen i'm happy about it but i did it and i grudgingly voted yes you did right and i do recall your comment you know i don't want any of it but if i if in the interest of improved mobility and in fixing the situation that this is the this is the less bad of two bad options and frankly i acknowledged there were things that were uh definitely superior about the pd that versus what could be done by right and my conversations with constituents were you get that right you know you get this with the pd you're still against it yes why you know i mean like that's part of the job of challenging leading but anyway uh i think pds get a bad name from time to time because of like from the 80s right and then especially with the land use development and what have you that's being done and now we're dealing with decisions made from the 80s and and pds that were granted back then and and obviously we've learned a lot since then and and um and there's there's a there's a reason when planned development districts um should be used in this case with the kingsway development um one of the reasons that was working to the city's benefit was the additional um roadway improvements that were being done that the developer is otherwise not required to be able to do so so but like i said yeah time has passed it's always hindsight's always 20 20 right and and we can talk about what are some of the lessons that we learned from that experience okay can we join in kumbaya around the fact that we have prioritized this area along with southeast denton and downtown for a small area plan absolutely so and and thank you again that's that traditional plug absolutely you know i was on my soapbox for the longest time you know as we work on the area plan for northeast denton the mobility component is going to be one of the big components that we look at and i know we made that commitment to council as we work through the adoption of the conference of plan and also the mobility plan so that that is first and foremost on the list of things that that project will address i think we're just about out of time we'll have therapy again thank you you're welcome thank you all right let me pull down the presentation we are ready for staff report item e all righty so i'm going to start off this stuff report with the first parkway street elm locust intersection information at the previous meeting we discussed with you several of the friday reports that we had mentioned we talked about it was a signal the signal was taken away then it was a one one stop direction on parkway now it's an all stop direction and the request that you had was for us to pull up the traffic crash data in this area and so i am going to ask nathan to come up and discuss the crash data that he worked with the police department on and just really go over that information with you so nathan all right i'm not going to read this long worded discussion but basically we pulled a number of years of traffic data so we could take a look at trends and you know identify sort of how how do we get where we are today and how has the you know how has our response improved or how have trends changed since we implemented the always stop so the first three years of data that we collected and then we compared that with the the subsequent almost two years of data that uh from the period when the signal was in place and then the subsequent period after the signal was removed and the side street stop condition was in place how to safety perform um one of the big challenges that we have with crash data with how it's recorded and you know one of the reasons we're coming back this month is because location data is a little bit challenging to extrapolate from the reports without pulling all the individual reports and scanning all the details so what they call a cr3 form that the police officer fills out on site and we're looking at data that's a bit less detailed so we were able to extrapolate out how many crashes occurred at the intersections we can't say exactly which intersections without going through that additional effort so we had 28 crashes in the period of the three years the intersections were signalized and then for just under two years we had 20 crashes at between the two intersections so in terms of overall trend we had roughly the same number of crashes occur over the same time frame you know nine injury crashes and six injury crashes over the the two periods so you know the trends that we see are the overall crashes stayed about the same but there was a slight increase not substantial but a slight increase in the severity of the crashes that did occur after the signals were removed and the side street stops were implemented so i'd say you know that's kind of what you would expect fewer people are stopping at the intersection because there is no signal so you start to see some of the types of crashes be a bit more severe when that higher threat sort of scenario happens there was one fatality that occurred at the intersection of elm where a an individual pulled through the stop sign and there was a collision and airbag deployed and due to a respiratory issue they died from air air bag dust inhalation that we got from pd through a separate review so you know that being the most severe of all the collisions that occurred but certainly we don't want to see any fatalities or serious injuries on intersections in the in the city since you know following that fatal collision we implemented the always stop there was one reported crash that happened since then and no injuries were a result so you know just overall i would say you know crash rates stayed about the same but severity increased when the signals were removed that's not a result that we want to see since we've implemented the always stop the you know we've got about four months of data and that shows that we're not seeing a lot of crashes and we haven't seen any severity as an outcome of that and we'll continue to monitor and we do have a project on parkway to do some improvements there as well so hopefully we can introduce some additional elements to further reinforce that the stop condition is has been installed on elm and locust and that is everything i have to say happy to answer questions i can say just sort of like anecdotally for my personal experience i was a little bit worried that there would be um you know congestion or traffic back up as a result of the always stop but i haven't seen it um do do you feel like my my gut instinct on that is accurate i would say so you know our office is right there at the intersection of elm and parkway i see a fair amount of traffic but i wouldn't say i see any more congestion at the parkway intersection than i see downstream at mckinney so i don't uh i would not say that we're seeing a whole lot of congestion that's not to say i've observed locust a lot in my travels a little bit but i certainly wouldn't say that i see any evidence of that increase in congestion there were certainly issues on elm street because it's three lanes where people maybe in the middle lane didn't recognize that the stop was there and we were getting a lot of issues with you know folks come telling us that they had near misses or that they'd seen a collision that sort of thing and that's why we put the red flashing lights so traffic operations james andrews went out and put some flashing lights on top of the stop signs to increase visibility as you're coming down the hill on elm um but yeah i certainly people seem to be complying i walk through there just to test it out make sure folks are stopping and i haven't really experienced any concerns walking through the intersection so say they're performing pretty well small small sample size but for now it seems like the four-way stop is really giving us some good outcomes there yeah and the changes that will hopefully add uh which of course we have talked with tex dot or things like putting some solid lane lines so as you get up to the intersection there's visual cue that you need to stop some reflectors maybe so we should be able to to even provide additional clues to drivers that you know they're approaching a stop controlled intersection so we should be able to improve that safety hopefully some uh crosswalks would help make that intersection stand out a little bit more as well i really like the fact that uh no matter which direction you're approaching it you have to think about it now yeah i would say makes you anecdotally when i first came to town you know before i accepted the position i was sitting at a greenhouse restaurant on locust street and observing cars flying down locust street so you know i don't see that as much anymore when i'm sitting there outside dining so you know i certainly have seen it as a traffic calming if you will on the north side of downtown as well councilmember bird how do you all make the decision uh in a in a location like that uh to put in stop signs versus those lights that flash red is those you know it all stop red light how do you all come to that is it financial do you want to answer that or you want me to i can some other kind i can talk uh so you know anytime we were making decisions about what traffic control devices the result of an engineering study so it's typically uh you know we're working together as a team so becky deviney brett our new deputy city engineer we're working together to review conditions to look at you know what are what are all the constraints at an intersection and make the appropriate recommendations sometimes that's an iterative process i referred to you know we we put up the stop signs then we came back later and put up the flashing lights so sometimes that's the result of testing observing how things you know how that uh how that engineering treatment worked in the field and you may need to further enhance and i even described some additional enhancements i have in mind so it's you know it starts with the engineering review and developing a design but sometimes we may see that it's not performing the way we want and we go back and continue to design so so so a stop sign with flashing lights on the stop signs to notify you that to stop versus one of those you know in the middle of the road at the top you know what i'm talking about flashing light signal lights signal yeah permanently flashing red signal yeah yeah signal lights that's what that's where i'm trying to go so is that part of the uh the the severity of we need to now notify them by flashing it could be yeah it could be the result of seeing increased crashes or severe crashes that you know in addition to what happens at the intersection sometimes there may be site constraints that you can't see and recognize as well so we might do something further back so we catch a driver's attention before they even arrive at the intersection we do that a lot with pedestrian safe crossings i believe there may be advanced lights out here but certainly you know you may need to get a driver's attention before they get to that threatening area so they understand how to react and respond when they get there okay yeah all right that's it i'll turn it back over to becky thank you nathan and i would just mention to councilmember bird um you know it was a signalized intersection so whether it's one signal flashing red because it's a stop condition or a signal that runs out through all three colors you know that would be more of going back to what it was in the past so the the iterative process that nathan described this was the first step in moving in that direction so um you know that's why we'll continue to review the data and you know evaluate that to make sure that the decisions that were made in that incremental phase are addressing the concerns thank you absolutely so the next thing that we promised is that every month we will bring you a bonnie bray street update and so i'm happy to announce that on the city council meeting i know mayor brats i'm really excited um i didn't bring you any popcorn to celebrate or anything um so we did um on april 5th approved that a change order for north south waterline phase three um that change order what it did was allow the waterline contractor to perform those temporary pavement restoration um that'll be all lanes of bonnie bray street between 35 and scripture to the roundabout we are hoping that all lanes of traffic of course weather dependent will be open beginning in june and of course we're working through that final acceptance of the waterline so we're doing those waterline testing measures obviously that's a process that we have to go through that temporary service that we've worked with the streets department with danny kramer on will improve those driving conditions until that complete rebuild of that segment of bonnie bray will be completed so this is a a temporary measure to put the the roadway surface in a more drivable condition since the waterline construction will be completed until that ultimate cross section which is a four lane divided roadway will happen in the 2024 time frame so i just i make you aware of that because this interim phase will be uh kind of like john described earlier with the 380 this is an interim step that will happen um and then of course we'll come back with that permanent step um in a few years you realize of course this is for the public benefit people don't wreck their cars and it'll be good for them and you'll get absolutely no credit for it when you come back and tear it up again right yes sir that's part of the reason why i'm sending you the message that i'm sending you that this is a temporary measure that will be done and we'll be back in a couple of years to build that permanent improvement so um you know the goal is is to make it a drivable surface for that one and a half to two year time frame until that ultimate roadway construction can be completed i wonder if there's a better way to uh maybe in the construction update somehow to get the public to be aware like this is what's happening this is why it's happening and it's temporary because that is the thing that i most often or one of the things i most often uh hear about is why do they put it down and tear it up again yeah and i uh i feel those same sentiments and part of why um you know i've been working with the streets department and of course with our team and to when we provide you with an update or a message is to explain the phasing or the steps because ultimately the difference between building an interim improvement or a permanent improvement to someone who's not in the construction industry or understands that they truly they see that the roadway looks beautiful and they think that it's it's been handled danny deals with this on an everyday basis where he comes in and does a a microsil or a mill and overlay those have lot useful life time frames but they're not like a complete rebuild that could last up to 25 years if you're maintaining that roadway in that proper measure so you know really our goal is is to work just like we're working on elmon locus for those measures to make those improvements in a more immediate fashion because we don't want the roadway to be torn up in its existing condition until we can do the construction in 2024 what's the what's the obstacle to i guess you know logical logical question would be what's the obstacle to doing the permanent one in the time frame of the temporary one uh funding yeah we're currently lacking all of the construction funding in real estate yeah so we're working through that this is one of the projects that we've submitted um to the county bond package um that i've had multiple conversations with mr polster about um so there's a there's also right away acquisition that has to continue um and then of course there's several different homes that will be um you know eliminated with this overall roadway improvement okay i appreciate that explanation and i can't honestly say i've ever noticed if in the construction updates if we do tell people this is temporary so that it's drivable you know just we just discussed and if uh i don't know who would who would be the person to you know sort of route that comment uh but if we're not doing that then maybe that would be helpful i don't know how closely people digest that information but it's an opportunity sure i think that's a valid comment and i think as we work on those friday report updates or even the construction guide updates that we make we can think about the way that we're messaging that message i've also been thinking about different ways when we we make presentations or we have conversations with the public to explain the different types of maintenance and i know that's something that's definitely i'm sure on danny's mind as you know he has those similar conversations and questions that come through his office um and so you know it's it's a hard situation to explain but i think we definitely will continue to add that information to help understand this is temporary and we only anticipate it to last you know a certain amount of time frame before we do that ultimate and you know that's really the purpose of me stating this today so then bonnie bray phase three which is rose on drive to 35 and bonnie bray phase six which is 380 to us 77 are both on track to begin construction before the end of the year and both of those projects have an approximate two-year construction timeline which hopes in hopes of having those completed by quarter four into quarter four of 2024 so we just wanted to bring you up to speed on those other two phases i know there's a lot of questions that happen with the bonnie bray phase six specifically because the location of the new denton high school and so the high school will be opening you know obviously through the process of the construction phase and we have been coordinating with disd and like i mentioned those monthly meetings then of course we are so are working with them on some improvements that they're going to be making to reine road and then the last item that was brought up in our questions that came from last month was the swisher road concerns and the portion of swisher road i believe that was asked that actually is a part of the 2019 bond program it's that neighborhood rehabilitation program it's specifically within neighborhood what we call 8a and is anticipated to begin in the design in 2025 so there will be improvements that are up and coming but it is out a few years and with that that is all i have for the staff report today i will pull up the matrix to see if there's any additional items that you would like for us to review so we went ahead and talked about the intersection of parkway and sorry i'm trying to get this where we can all see it parkway and locust we believe we provided the update that you requested just wanted to find out whether or not you're comfortable with us removing that from the future agendas um i don't think that we need like an update on every agenda but could we maybe flag it like a year from now to kind of bring back that same data so that we can you know kind of compare apples to apples absolutely once we have more data sure we can do that we'll add it to the commitment tracker that we have every time we promise you we're going to do something in a friday report or make that commitment we actually have a tracker that we use so that our staff remembers for those timelines so happy to do that i'm sorry i need that in my marriage a commitment tracker good luck with that sir so i would just mention that we'll continue to work with pd then on that overall intersection and and we'll we'll need to make sure that with the inner improvements that nathan has planned you know that we take a moment in time to to receive all of the crash data from when those stop signs you know obviously in the current condition and then when we move to the new configuration which actually is just really some multimodal improvements and some signing and striping that then we collect the data because i want to make sure the data set is the specific information so happy to do so so we'll bring that back in a year the deerwood kings row area update that was requested i think the transportation planning and planning development services department team did a fabulous job of providing you an update with that so i'd like to request to remove that one from the agenda tracker see no objection um i think as long as we're we're really digging into that conversation in our small area plan conversations we could we can move this issue from mobility to that to smaller noted okay wonderful i think uh tina and and pretem are very well aware of that and of course pretem and tina worked very closely with us on the mobility plan update so they have all of that at their hands to be able to access and and use as pretem's going to be taking that over then the bonnie bray street updates i'm not asking to remove that because i'll continue to bring you an update monthly and then the swisher road concerns just made mention of that being in that bond program any additional questions on swisher road yes um i i drove that road maybe a couple of days ago sure uh just to uh show someone you know what we were doing yeah i was excited about that something new thing um and i saw some some some tagging it looked like there are some movement going on on on this issue in some kind of way you know how it's tagged in in painted on the road and and i was telling them hey it looks like they've been out here already look at me you know so uh but down that i'm hearing that there's not going to be anything additional going on there to 25 i've got to tell these people that are calling me my constituents that are calling me and and asking me you know why is it tagged why is the road uh painted and now you know there's not any expectation anything other than that the issue is still there so i'm going to ask danny kramer um deputy director of operations to come up and talk to you about what the painting means yeah so what we're doing over there is where you uh the drainage department has gotten locates for that area and they're looking at cleaning the i think it's the the east side uh bar ditch over there uh there is a clogged culvert over there and uh we're going to reshape that ditch it's not going to fix the issue but it should help mediate some of it in the meantime but it's just part of our standard maintenance practices in the area okay so um now i can determine you know roadway versus culvert uh issues so i'll be be sure and be able to i'll be able to let them know that thank you all righty so now it's the time for you to tell us if there's anything additional you'd like for us to bring forward next month i don't have anything uh well let me ask you uh first is with the uh citywide speed study will that go directly to council or do you expect to kind of bring that to mobility as well or what are your thoughts there so haven't thought a whole lot about that i'm happy to bring it to mobility i know nathan is leading the charge with that effort and we're currently in the data collection process i think it would make sense to bring it forward to this committee first to um you know have that overview with you prior to it going to council um i hope by the end of may we're done collecting data and they may even be done sooner i actually saw them picking up some tubes uh yesterday so i know they've got tubes out everywhere if you see those all over town um so happy to bring that forward it will be probably a late summer before we're ready to have that conversation but happy to do so yeah if we could just get like updates on kind of how how it's going what the process looks like sure even what you just said was more than i knew yeah right i'm sorry didn't talk over you sure also sorry council member bird also i just wanted to let everybody know that you all are having a meeting on the 28th to discuss the southeast denton portion of the upgrade updates so i just want to put that out there absolutely yes we have the um april 28th um trevor i'm looking at you six p.m okay six p.m i believe it's six p.m um i don't have my i'm sorry yes um and so we're going to be having that conversation to talk about the sedna um group a or said a and said b and uh seth garcia the program manager over that bond program will be bringing that forward we'll have the contractor present um the design engineer so it'll be a great time for everyone to learn about that overall project in that entire neighborhood and i've gotten word that they've received their letters so they are excited coming through that's always something that we keep our fingers crossed i know we've had a couple of issues before with them so glad to hear that they're receiving their letters thank you for that i just want to confirm whether or not you all do have on your notes to make sure that those types of announcements also go to those churches there because they have announcement time absolutely we will follow up and make sure that those different churches have that information they should be in that mailing category but i'll ask seth trevor can work to make sure that seth gets that notice put out and try to get it in the sunday message for this sunday good absolutely uh in the in the kind of intersection of those last two points i've had uh occasion of late just due to a hobby interest to knocking a lot of doors and something standing in your district and i and i suspect you will uh the council member bird will uh will agree with this uh that the thing i hear most often or heard most often really even more than the construction status was well we've heard so much from you know from you over the last couple years the the speed on the streets right particularly morse curly lakie ruth i heard about winzer duncan too uh you know these are residential areas with kids playing in the streets and i hear uh you know a lot of interest in some kind of speed bumps bumps out some kind of traffic calming uh uh are you i know i've seen you there before i hate to give you extra curricular work but are you planning already to be at sedna on uh on monday or maybe i'm just wondering if if if traffic calming won't come up in the context of the 28th because that's about construction maybe in the context of vision zero it would be appropriate to address this concern and i'm i don't i'm kind of freelancing here you know maybe sedna is an opportunity to talk about or see if you hear the same thing i'm hearing about the need for traffic calming i've heard the concerns i've attended the meetings we will not be present at the meeting on monday but on the meeting on the 28th on thursday trevor already has in the presentation some of the improvements that we're making and some of the next steps nathan actually submitted as part of the dcta trip application some improvements on more street and that application has been submitted and we're waiting to hear back from them that they've received it and then of course it does take a little bit of time to see what projects they actually select um and then we also have a process we're working through on some driver feedback speed limit sign so there's some multiple things going on that area it'll be one slide that we just touch on um really to talk about what are the ways that we can receive that feedback from other individuals and that'll be a part of that thursday presentation will be at the very tail end of that presentation just saying if there's other concerns here's the individuals that you can reach out to um as i've mentioned before we've done multiple speed studies in those areas and have you know multiple friday report information and times we brought uh those questions and concerns to you division zero action plan that precent will be bringing forward in june i'm sorry i said vision zero i meant i meant uh well that too but vision zero uh citywide speed study oh sure that's really what i was what i meant to say in the context of citywide speed study that's where you would look at you know are over are the overall speeds higher than they need to be in that neighborhood sure or just traffic calming sure so there are certain streets in that neighborhood that we are doing as a part of the citywide speed study but i will remind you that the citywide speed study does not collect data on residential streets um so um nathan can add that um to the overall presentation just to explain which particular roadways um are being uh evaluated as a part of the sedna neighborhood so we'll make sure to include that in the presentation for thursday um and then obviously we're available um for any questions or comments that folks have in that area yeah i think if you're really you know open to uh hearing you'll be on that slide for 20 minutes you know because i'm just i'm just reporting oh sure that's a very present concern they're not and i don't think it's going away by saying we already looked at it you know and in fact uh you you're probably aware that you know from the friday reports today i asked because specifically of having knocked on a door at the corner of uh lakey and morse you'd ask about the traffic uh traffic accident experience there and it was kind of expressed as like not that bad that it's five accidents in five years i don't know it's an accident a year a good thing it's better than parkway but it sounds like a lot to me i think one accident in five years might be like more sort of normal feeling just perception sure you said at the end the tail end of that comma that you just made perception is a lot of what is the situation in that area and that's why we use the data with the different speed studies that are collected to look at the actual facts um and as i mentioned there are some improvements um that meeting specifically on thursday is to talk about the sedna project and of course the overall bond package but we will touch on other projects we have going in those areas and make sure that we cover that and then give them the tools and resources they need to be able to reach out to those individuals all right anything else anyone else we made it to the end awesome well thank you very much are there any concluding items i think we kind of did concluding items so uh we'll adjourn at 1101