1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,900 Okay, it's 6 o'clock, so I will start this regularly scheduled meeting of the Board of 2 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:10,900 Ethics. 3 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:22,240 A quorum appears to be here, so we'll just jump right in to Item A, BOE 22-008, Member 4 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:26,260 Introductions and Commentary. 5 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:28,260 So a lot of new faces here. 6 00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:33,800 I know I haven't been to a meeting in a while between the 3 PM meetings and everything kind 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:39,840 of back to normal at work and the COVID surge, we haven't seen each other in a while. 8 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,440 But my name is Laura Tomlin, for the people that don't know me. 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,080 I've been on this since 2018 when it started. 10 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:53,000 I think I'm on like my last possible time I can be on it. 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:01:02,580 I think after Jesse ran for one, his seat, I was elected chair and I've been chair since 12 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:03,580 then. 13 00:01:03,580 --> 00:01:09,280 And I just try to make the meetings efficient and try to make sure everybody can be heard 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,840 and not keep everybody too long so we all start hating each other. 15 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,540 And I guess that's enough for me and then I guess maybe we'll just start here and go 16 00:01:18,540 --> 00:01:20,560 around so everybody can introduce themselves. 17 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,920 Sure, I can start, I'm an alternate that was just brought on to the board in the fall. 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,920 My name is David Schuck and it's S-H-U-C-K. 19 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:36,200 I previously served on the Parks and Rec Board from I guess 2018 or somewhere around that 20 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,200 time. 21 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,600 I moved over to Denton from Northeast Denton County in 2016 and over there I was involved 22 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,320 in municipal government both as city councilman and I served as mayor of Providence Village 23 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,000 before I moved. 24 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,320 So when I came over here I think they wanted to keep me out of trouble and put me on to 25 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,920 some boards instead of letting me run for council or anything crazy like that. 26 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,960 But I will be running from office from now on but I'm definitely happy to serve on this 27 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:04,960 board. 28 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,360 This is a great place to be. 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:16,120 My name is Dustin Pavlik, I joined the board about a year ago and I just submitted my application 30 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,720 looking for somewhere to serve the city. 31 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:24,360 I was born in Denton and grew up here, lived in Houston and some other places but I've been 32 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,760 back in Denton for about eight years or so. 33 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:35,240 I'm Hannah Fogh-Closson, I started on the board in the fall of last year and I moved 34 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,120 to Denton for graduate school and I just never left. 35 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:44,120 My husband and I own a house in Idiots Hill and I own a counseling practice here in town 36 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,120 and I just wanted to get involved and see what's going on with local politics so I thought 37 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,800 I'd serve on the board. 38 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,560 My name is Annetta Ramsey and I am a Ph.D. trained counselor and I run a eating disorders 39 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,560 treatment program. 40 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,120 We live in the historic district and I do write a column on history which is ironic 41 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,720 because when I was in school I hated history. 42 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,320 So I've gotten over it. 43 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,680 And I guess I said my things about the board which is me personally, I will live here in 44 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,720 Denton, grew up in the colony, I'm an assistant district attorney at the D.A.'s office and 45 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:29,160 I live in Annetta's neighborhood so that's the personal stuff on top of the board of ethics. 46 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,160 Next. 47 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,080 My name is Andrea Ebelhard, I've lived with my husband here in Denton for about 21 years 48 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:42,360 and we raised two children here, two Denton high school graduates in the I.B. program. 49 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,800 I'm a special education teacher at Calhoun Middle School. 50 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:50,280 I work with students that have emotional disturbance so I have a very specialized special education 51 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:57,680 field and my background is in my education is in psychology. 52 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:06,680 I also want to include that I love to ski and hike so I'm always the kind of person 53 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:07,680 that does this. 54 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:08,680 Rob Rainer. 55 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,920 I came on a couple months before Jesse Davis left and ran for office. 56 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:25,120 Moved here in 1983 and am with Tom Paz Realtors, commercial broker here in town and I also 57 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,120 live affectionately called Idiot's Hill and all along on the lower slope than probably 58 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,120 you but that's where we are and that's how that works. 59 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,120 Thank you. 60 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,120 Scott Bradbury. 61 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:47,120 Alright and we know Tammy and Madison or yeah you probably do because you have to deal with 62 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,120 them. 63 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:56,120 That's such a warm introduction. 64 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:07,120 I do want to mention Don Cartwright and Patricia Rinckey are the two regular members who are 65 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:13,120 not here tonight and Deborah Crossmo is the third alternate member so there are names 66 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,120 out there. 67 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:20,120 Madison is great whether you want me to be chair or if somebody else wants to take it 68 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,120 on like working with Madison is great. 69 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,120 You just got to kind of tell her what you want to do and she makes it better than you 70 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:33,120 could think of making it so it has been a pleasure. 71 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:39,120 So moving right into item for consideration B, receive nominations and hold an election 72 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,120 of chair and vice chair. 73 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,120 So I'm going to the agenda information sheet. 74 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Let's see. 75 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:53,120 Right now, well it's supposed to be elected annually in January or February but because 76 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,120 of COVID and the 3 p.m. meetings we didn't have January or February meetings so this 77 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,120 is our first one. 78 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:06,120 I was elected in 2019, I was elected in 2021 and Hannah was elected, well I think the last 79 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,120 meeting I was at in September of 2021. 80 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,120 So I'll open the floor if anybody like really wants these positions, jump at it or make 81 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,120 nominations. 82 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:21,120 Yeah I believe we have to, you have to make a nomination and then we vote on the nominations 83 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,120 in order. 84 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,120 Is that correct? 85 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Yes. 86 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,120 Yes. 87 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,120 So I assume you want to start with chair. 88 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,120 So nominations for chair. 89 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,120 Yes. 90 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:39,120 I'd like to nominate you because you like punishment. 91 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,120 I do like punishment. 92 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:50,120 You've done an excellent job and as we started this and developed this plan you have kept 93 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,120 us on a true course and I've enjoyed that. 94 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,120 Thank you. 95 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,120 Alright any seconds? 96 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,120 Second. 97 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,120 Second from David. 98 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,120 Alright I mean is it okay if I use everybody's first name? 99 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,120 Sure. 100 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Don't offend anyone though. 101 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,120 Okay so we don't get more nominations we vote on. 102 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,120 I think you have a choice to accept or not. 103 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Oh me? 104 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,120 Yeah. 105 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,120 I mean I will accept I'll say the only like the three p.m. meetings were not working out. 106 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:27,120 You know I'm an attorney and you know they weren't but I think we're moving back to six 107 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:33,120 meetings which I you know I'll be able to do and you know I can keep leading if you all 108 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,120 want me to. 109 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,120 I don't want it to be like you know ruler of the kingdom or anything so if anybody you 110 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,120 know I don't want to you know as long as everybody I guess we'll see with the vote but I will 111 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,120 accept. 112 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,120 And I guess I will call for vote. 113 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,120 Other nominations. 114 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Do we do other or do we do that one first? 115 00:07:54,120 --> 00:08:00,120 Okay so ask for discussion first. 116 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,120 Any other nominations? 117 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Other nominations first. 118 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,120 Okay sorry not I'm not an expert on Robert Rose but luckily we have an attorney who is 119 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,120 sitting here. 120 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,120 I'm working. 121 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,120 So any other nominations? 122 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:17,120 I won't be offended if anybody. 123 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:23,120 So no other nominations so discussion and Rob you know said would he have to anyone else? 124 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:31,120 I would like to just mention say that considering with all the changing of times missed meetings 125 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,120 and all of that I think it would be it would be prudent to have somebody that has actually 126 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,120 served on this board for a while continue so that we can we can because there's lots 127 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:45,120 of new members so in my opinion it's a prudent way to go forward with somebody that has been 128 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:52,120 in position and knows where this needs to be needs to be done. 129 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,120 Any other discussion? 130 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,120 So now we hold a vote right? 131 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:03,120 Okay and I know on Zoom we have to go person by person so is it do do we need to still 132 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,120 do that or is it just I mean I think we can just do voice votes again now that we're all 133 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,120 in person. 134 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,120 Okay all right all in favor say aye. 135 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,120 Aye. 136 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,120 All opposed say nay. 137 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,120 Any abstentions? 138 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,120 I guess I mean I don't know all abstained because I'm not going to vote for myself but 139 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,120 I did say aye. 140 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,120 And I think ayes carry so I will serve as your chair again hopefully you know if anybody 141 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,120 wants to impeach me and go for it you know I'm just trying my best and hopefully we'll 142 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,120 all get along. 143 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,120 It's quite a victory speech. 144 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:40,120 I guess this is you know the third time in you know. 145 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:45,120 All right so moving on to vice chair. 146 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Do we have any and I think Hannah I read the meeting minutes you know it seemed like Hannah 147 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 did a good job at the last meeting. 148 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,120 So do I have any nominations for vice chair? 149 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,120 I'd like to nominate Hannah. 150 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,120 Is that correct? 151 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,120 All right Annetta has nominated Hannah. 152 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,120 I'll second that. 153 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:13,120 And a second from sorry Andrea is that right okay I know my boss is Andrea so I want to 154 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,120 make sure I say it correctly. 155 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:22,120 All right so any other nominations for vice chair? 156 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,120 I'm not seeing any. 157 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,120 Discussion? 158 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,120 I thought she did a really good job at that one meeting and I know she just stepped in 159 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,120 I guess but I thought she did a good job. 160 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,120 That's hard for him to do. 161 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,120 Yeah and I agree it looked like things went well at the last meeting and it got through 162 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,120 the agenda quickly. 163 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,120 All right if there's no more discussion I will ask for a vote. 164 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,120 All in favor say aye. 165 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:54,120 Aye. 166 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,120 All opposed say nay. 167 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,120 Okay any abstentions? 168 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,120 I'll abstain and I'll help myself. 169 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,120 Kind of abstains. 170 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:10,120 And so the motion carries and so Hannah will continue as our vice chair. 171 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,120 All right congratulations. 172 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:22,120 Moving on to agenda item C consider approval of minutes for October 28, 2021. 173 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,120 I was not there I read them over does anybody who was there that read them over have any 174 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,120 corrections? 175 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,120 Is there a motion to approve those minutes? 176 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,120 So moved. 177 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,120 Okay. 178 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,120 David moves. 179 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,120 And a second. 180 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,120 And a second from Annetta. 181 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,120 Any discussion? 182 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,120 All right all in favor to approve the minutes for October 28, 2021 say aye. 183 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,120 Aye. 184 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,120 All opposed say nay. 185 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:50,120 Any abstentions? 186 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Okay so that is approved. 187 00:11:53,120 --> 00:12:00,120 Moving on to agenda item D BOE 22-011 receive report, hold discussion and take necessary 188 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:07,120 action regarding a recommendation to amend code of ordinance chapter 2 article 11 ethics 189 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,120 definition of panel. 190 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:17,120 I'm not sure if we need you to discuss this too much it seems pretty simple. 191 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:25,120 So the council changed the eligibility of having to have attorneys on the board and 192 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:33,120 our rules of procedure or I guess it's in the ethics ordinance is that our committees 193 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,120 have to have an attorney but if the board doesn't have to have an attorney we definitely 194 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,120 shouldn't have the panels have to have an attorney because then if you know there's 195 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,120 just one attorney on the board they would have to be on every panel or if there's no 196 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,120 attorneys on the board we can't have panels. 197 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,120 So it seems pretty simple do you want to do you have anything to add? 198 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,120 I think you summarized it very well. 199 00:12:52,120 --> 00:13:05,120 So I think we just need to take out the requirement for an attorney to be on the panel is it the 200 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,120 ethics ordinance or the rule of procedure or both? 201 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,120 I believe it's just in the ordinance but I can double check after this meeting as long 202 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,120 as there's direction from the board to remove that piece. 203 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:23,120 It's in the definition section. 204 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,120 So this is the proposed language from the staff recommendation just to remove this last 205 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,120 piece basically. 206 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:38,120 All right so do we I guess so this would just be recommendations we need to send to 207 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,120 council correct? 208 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,120 Yes. 209 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,120 So because you basically give direction to include that in the packet of recommendation 210 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,120 recommended amendments that we're sending to council at some point? 211 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,120 Yeah we might have to talk I'm not sure if it's on this agenda but I kind of think we 212 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:59,120 just need to like send what we have before because it's been so long between COVID and 213 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:05,120 all the other issues that we haven't had meetings but that's probably another discussion on 214 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,120 another agenda item. 215 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:15,120 So I guess let's see a motion. 216 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:23,120 Yeah a motion to I move approval of that as stated in the code. 217 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:29,120 All right so Anna has moved to change it as staff has recommended in the red line 218 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,120 version. 219 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,120 Is there a second? 220 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,120 Second. 221 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,120 Second from Hannah and is there any discussion? 222 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,120 Just small I mean I noticed that we're not redlining the comma before but I mean those 223 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:47,120 kind of things I imagine you guys were like I didn't want to get too into the weeds. 224 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,120 Any other discussion? 225 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,120 All right that was pretty easy. 226 00:14:52,120 --> 00:15:00,120 All in favor of the motion to take staff recommendation including getting rid of that 227 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,120 comma making a period say aye. 228 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Aye. 229 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,120 All opposed? 230 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,120 All right anybody abstaining? 231 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,120 All right. 232 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,120 Okay. 233 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:17,120 Okay so I think that's approved. 234 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:24,120 Moving right along to agenda item E. Receive a report, hold a discussion and take necessary 235 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:35,120 action regarding potential recommendations to amend the Board of Ethics Rules of Procedure. 236 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:45,120 All right so is this the one this is about the timeliness of requests for a panel that 237 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,120 advise your opinions? 238 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,120 Okay do you want to discuss that since it kind of falls on you? 239 00:15:50,120 --> 00:16:01,120 Yes so essentially this is coming from something that occurred where a board member or a commissioner 240 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:09,120 I believe requested advice on an application of the ordinance on the day of the vote that 241 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:17,120 they were going to have and so I asked them if they wanted to have a panel to give an 242 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:24,120 advisory opinion after the vote but they didn't think that was useful. 243 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:31,120 So this is basically to try to formalize a process for how I should respond and report 244 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:39,120 if those things happen to the board and so the current recommendation is to include in 245 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:47,120 the rules of procedure which I can pull up what the language looks like. 246 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:54,120 Basically just something that says that if more than that if I receive a request as for 247 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,120 an advisory opinion more than 10 business days before the deliberation of the pending 248 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,120 matter then that will be assigned to a panel and we'll make sure that that happens. 249 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,120 If it's more than five business days then it may be assigned to a panel or special counsel 250 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:13,120 so more than five less than 10 could go to special counsel because I discussed with special 251 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,120 counsel how long they thought it would take to get an advisory opinion turned around and 252 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:23,120 they said five days and then if it was less than five days we'll basically tell them that 253 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:30,120 it's not possible to get a panel opinion before the deliberation and they can choose to either 254 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:36,120 withdraw their request and if they do then I'll report that to you all at the next board 255 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:41,120 meeting or if they don't choose to withdraw it then they just are acknowledging basically 256 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:47,120 that they'll get it after the deliberation occurs. 257 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,120 So that is the recommendation from staff and I'll go find the... 258 00:17:52,120 --> 00:18:00,120 What kind of notice do they get about things that they're voting on? 259 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:07,120 Here it would depend on the board just whenever they get their agenda for the next meeting. 260 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:08,120 I don't know what the standard... 261 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,120 If they're having monthly meetings I would assume it's at least a week before. 262 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,120 Oh, I guess the city council. 263 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:19,120 City council is at least... 264 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:20,120 72. 265 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:24,120 Yeah, at least people get 72 hours notice. 266 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:25,120 Okay. 267 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:31,120 I have a question, I don't think it should be routine that people should think they go 268 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,120 to the board to decide if they should recuse themselves. 269 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:40,120 I believe that if there is any possibility that anybody could think you should have, you 270 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,120 should. 271 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:46,120 Too bad, so sad if you're not happy about it. 272 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:51,120 I just kind of hate for the board to be a sticking point. 273 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:57,120 I think also, I didn't cut you off, but it kind of comes down to the board's role. 274 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:04,120 Is the board's role as an advisory position or is it a deliberative... 275 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,120 Are we supposed to deliberate things that have occurred? 276 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:13,120 It's sort of a before or after kind of thing and I don't know that the board's intent was 277 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:16,120 to service an advisory, but maybe I don't. 278 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:22,120 The ordinance does say that any person subject to the ordinance can request an advisory opinion. 279 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:28,120 It just doesn't speak to the timeline of when that happens, but it does have a timeline of 280 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:32,120 when the opinion must be issued by requesting. 281 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,120 So if you request one, it has to be issued within 30 days, but it doesn't consider that 282 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:42,120 they could request one before or after or how it is around the deliberation period. 283 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:48,120 So honestly, it's really for me so that I have direction on if I get a request on the 284 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:54,120 day of, I can tell them, "Hey, you're not going to get an opinion today." 285 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,120 And so do you want an opinion still or not? 286 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:01,120 It allows you tools to not have to be putting things out of order. 287 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:08,120 Exactly, and then to have a mechanism for being transparent about the way that happens. 288 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:13,120 And so in the ordinance right now, we can't give advisory opinions. 289 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,120 It doesn't seem like there's been many. 290 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:19,120 I mean, it seems like there's only been a few times that we've actually had a panel. 291 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,120 There's probably just as many or more times they've asked you, but it's like, "Well, the 292 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:26,120 time, we couldn't even get a panel together before your vote, say, in a few days." 293 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:32,120 I think there's been less than 10 advisory opinions issued, and I think it has happened 294 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:36,120 maybe two or three times that I've been asked and been like, "I don't think that there's 295 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:43,120 enough time to get to a panel," or I said, "Hey, you have to deliberate this tomorrow," 296 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,120 or you know what I mean. 297 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:53,120 I mean, I think that sounds pretty good because I think you do need direction on what to say, 298 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,120 what to tell somebody. 299 00:20:54,120 --> 00:21:02,120 And I think five to 10 days, it's just really hard to get three of us together and get something 300 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:10,120 written, and then get an open meetings act timeline together, and then less than five 301 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:14,120 days, I don't see special counsel or a panel being able to do anything. 302 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,120 I think I agree with what you've come up with. 303 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,120 I have a little bit of a concern about, I mean, I think that the more than 10 days guidelines 304 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:29,120 and the less than five day guidelines are a pretty clear cut, in my opinion. 305 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:36,120 I'm questioning the in-between time. 306 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:43,120 I think that it would be, I just don't know if, because special counsel is special counsel, 307 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,120 and special counsel is a different role than the ethics committee. 308 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:55,120 So I'm not sure if that in-between time is necessarily best served by... 309 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:59,120 The ordinance does say that it doesn't give any guidance, actually. 310 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:04,120 So it says that I could basically get assignment, I don't know if it's me or if it's the chair, 311 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:09,120 but that it could be, the request could be assigned to special counsel or to a panel. 312 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:16,120 And there's no guidance in the ordinance about timeline or what it should be. 313 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,120 So it does, the ordinance does conceive of special counsel filling that role. 314 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:23,120 I think they have done it once in the past. 315 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:28,120 I think, I mean, my understanding of what's happened so far since this began 316 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:34,120 was that we try to get a panel, and if we can't get a panel, it goes to special counsel. 317 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:38,120 Right, yeah, I mean, I would try to get, if I had, I got a five day, request five days out, 318 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,120 I would try to get a panel. 319 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,120 There are, but I think there is some even timelines around how long you have to issue, 320 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:51,120 you have at least two days to actually have the opinion issued after the panel occurs. 321 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,120 And do you have to issue notice for panel meeting as well, or is that? 322 00:22:55,120 --> 00:23:00,120 Yeah, so if I was going to hold a panel, I'd have to have, I have to post it 72 hours before it would occur, 323 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:05,120 then it would occur, and the panel would have, I believe, two business days to actually issue the opinion. 324 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,120 So that's only a factor in two of those timelines. 325 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,120 Right. 326 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,120 Go ahead. 327 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:15,120 Just for clarification purposes, obviously once a panel is convened and issues an opinion, 328 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,120 that will then further be discussed at the following ethics meeting? 329 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,120 Will it be reported out? No? 330 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:29,120 Not necessarily, no. I mean, that's something we could do, and we, if we'd like. 331 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:34,120 In the past, they've kind of issued opinions, and then I don't think we've, I think some of what we've-- 332 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,120 I think they go to the chair, for the chair to be aware of. 333 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:39,120 Okay. 334 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:44,120 Because the chair would be aware that there was a panel, because I think the chair assigns the members. 335 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:50,120 I want to say in the past, we have discussed that before, when it's kind of an issue that we need to discuss, 336 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:53,120 like, or we need to change something in the ordinance. 337 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:58,120 But it's not like, I don't think, it's not in the ordinance or the rules of procedure that we would. 338 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:03,120 I think, I think it's probably conceived of that way so that the board doesn't then immediately say, 339 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,120 "Well, they were wrong." 340 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,120 But that's something to discuss further, potentially. 341 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,120 And I think it would be something, you know, if there is a concern, 342 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:17,120 I mean, it could be something that someone, you know, emails Madison or both of us and says, 343 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,120 "We should talk about this at the next meeting," but it's not like, I guess that's not the rule. 344 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:27,120 Right, and I can definitely make sure that if an opinion is issued, it goes to all of you, 345 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,120 so you're all aware that it happened. 346 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,120 I don't think that's a bad idea. 347 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,120 Yeah. 348 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,120 But I don't know that we need to necessarily change the rules of procedure for that to be reflected, 349 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:44,120 because I have my own standard operating procedures for how we run the board as staff. 350 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:48,120 So were you looking for a motion to adopt what you presented? 351 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,120 Or if you would prefer, like, there to be amended. 352 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,120 Yes. 353 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:58,120 So direction on whether or not this should be included in the packet that eventually goes to Council. 354 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,120 Is there more discussion or is there a motion on this? 355 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,120 I move approval. 356 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,120 What statement? 357 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:09,120 Okay, Annette moves to approve as stated by Madison. 358 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,120 Is there a second? 359 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:11,120 I second that. 360 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,120 Second by Andrea. 361 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,120 Any more discussion? 362 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:24,120 I think it's appropriate that we at least start off with this guideline and then we can tweak it as we go along, 363 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:32,120 because 10 days, there are events going on that we know about way out and people can kind of get the sense 364 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:34,120 that it may be a conflict. 365 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:41,120 And we had one in particular with a Council member asking about a vote and we had a panel and gave our opinion. 366 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:47,120 And I thought that was very forthright of that Council member to ask that question. 367 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,120 It was well in advance of the time. 368 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:56,120 And I think we're going to see more of that than all of a sudden a pop-up, oh, my goodness, situation. 369 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:00,120 But I think it's a good beginning for you, which we can then, as it progresses, 370 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,120 we can see how we need to fine-tune it. 371 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,120 But I think, do you feel comfortable with this? 372 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,120 Yes, I think so. 373 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:12,120 Because I think we can almost certainly get a panel if we have 10 business days. 374 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,120 Thank you. 375 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,120 Any more thoughts on this one? 376 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,120 All right. 377 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:24,120 All in favor of the motion as stated by Annette, say aye. 378 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,120 Aye. 379 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,120 All opposed, say nay. 380 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,120 Any abstentions? 381 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:30,120 All right. 382 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:31,120 Motion carries. 383 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,120 And so we will -- another one of our recommendations. 384 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:36,120 Okay. 385 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:42,120 Moving to item F, BOE 22-013, receive report, hold discussion, 386 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:48,120 and take necessary action regarding the format of the discussion regarding Code of Ordinance, Chapter 2, 387 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:54,120 Article 11, Ethics, Section 2-273, Conflicts of Interest. 388 00:26:54,120 --> 00:27:01,120 And I guess -- let me get to the agenda sheet. 389 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,120 All right. 390 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,120 So I guess Madison, do you want to -- 391 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:07,120 Yes. 392 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:08,120 Do you want to hop out this way? 393 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:09,120 Go ahead. 394 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:15,120 So at previous board meetings, it was requested that we discuss the definition of conflict of interest. 395 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,120 Because that's such a broad topic, when I went to look at it, 396 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:24,120 I thought it might be best to get direction on how to have that discussion 397 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:28,120 within the agenda information sheet under discussion here. 398 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,120 I kind of created five potential topics. 399 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,120 We can either not discuss them, but discuss additional ones. 400 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:40,120 But that way we can do kind of one at a time each meeting with the thought process. 401 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,120 But this is just what I came up with. 402 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:53,120 We don't have different options or different ways you want to go through the definition that's obviously up to you. 403 00:27:53,120 --> 00:28:03,120 What I would really like to see happen is just a look at that conflict of interest section on the Code. 404 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,120 There are some definitions in there that are very narrow. 405 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:11,120 There's wording like pending matter, which I haven't found in any other city, 406 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:15,120 that makes it so narrow it's almost unenforceable. 407 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:21,120 And then there's a statement at the bottom that says this excludes all future buy-ins. 408 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,120 I forget the rest of it. 409 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:31,120 But basically, if I were on city council and I voted for a property, I guess, 410 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:37,120 and then I wanted to buy into it the very next day, I would not be breaking our code of ethics. 411 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:41,120 And to me that is just so wrong. 412 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:48,120 I think the definition is flawed, and we need to recommend to council that it be rewritten. 413 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,120 And it's entirety. 414 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:56,120 I know that's strong, but it's been weak from day one. 415 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:06,120 The only thing it might cover would be possible people would need to be political with each other right before an election. 416 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:12,120 I'm just speaking hypothetically, of course. 417 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,120 It's a weak code. 418 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,120 And further I would say council should not rewrite it. 419 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,120 We should not rewrite it. 420 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:26,120 I think we need to find a group of people that do this, and we need to ask for a code, 421 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:34,120 and we need to not change it once it gets in the hands of the city. 422 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,120 So I know that's a broad sweep. 423 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,120 Yeah, I mean, I know, we've been on this together long enough, I kind of know your thoughts, 424 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,120 but you're saying we need just, are you saying just the whole thing? 425 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,120 The whole conflict of interest part needs to be rewritten. 426 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,120 Like including everything that Madison says. 427 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,120 It needs to be lined up with model codes. 428 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,120 I can fill up that section of the ordinance if you would like to. 429 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:25,120 Sure, that would be great. 430 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,120 I don't know if I can get it all on the screen. There's this part here, and there's a little bit more down here. 431 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,120 Could you blow it back up just a little more among the pages? 432 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,120 Yes. 433 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,120 Thank you. 434 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,120 Is that good? 435 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,120 Right. 436 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,120 I know I have a thought about the conflict of interest, a much like smaller issue, 437 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:51,120 is that I think there should be something in there about having a conflict 438 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,120 when there's a matter in front of City Council, the pending matter, 439 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:04,120 that the people involved contribute it to the campaign of the City Councilperson or Mayor. 440 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,120 I'm not sure what amount, like, you know. 441 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,120 Chair, I believe that was approved. 442 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,120 Oh, never mind. 443 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,120 That's included in the current packet. 444 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,120 Thank you for talking to me. 445 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,120 Okay, that sounds good. 446 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,120 All right, that's what I get for missing a meeting. 447 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,120 All right, next, anybody else? 448 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:32,120 One thing, if you look at that section one, if you look at the items that are capitalized, 449 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:37,120 those are items that are defined in the glossary, and they're not hyperlinked. 450 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:43,120 You have to do a page turn, and when you look at the definition, I'm not a lawyer, 451 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,120 the definition doesn't match what I think that word means. 452 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,120 And I, you know, for one thing, I think the thing needs to be written not in legalese, 453 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:57,120 not so that you have to go back to the glossary to figure out what is being said. 454 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,120 So all those places, like pending matter is one of the things that you're supposed to look up. 455 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:08,120 Conflict of interest is something you're supposed to look up. 456 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,120 Anyway, there's like five or six things that you have to look up. 457 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,120 And I think it should be in plain English, it should be all in one place, 458 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,120 you shouldn't have to go back to the glossary. 459 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,120 The people who are going to have to follow it are not lawyers always, 460 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,120 and they shouldn't have to get legal counsel to help them figure out how to follow it. 461 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,120 It should be really, really plain and simple. 462 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:39,120 So I don't like the way those definitions, and I hate pending matter with a capital H. 463 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,120 It's just, it's so narrow. 464 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,120 Would you like me to pull up the definition of that? 465 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,120 Sure. 466 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,120 Conflicting interest is not defined in the ordinance. 467 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,120 Where's the what? 468 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,120 Conflicting interest is not defined. 469 00:32:52,120 --> 00:33:00,120 Oh, okay. 470 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,120 I believe conflicting interest is then just defined out there. 471 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:16,120 It's not the definition section, but yes, it considers conflict interest. 472 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,120 So it's just a very narrow definition. 473 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:25,120 And the city of Austin has matter in their things. 474 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,120 There is no other city, I've probably looked at Penn Cities, 475 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:34,120 no other city has either pending or pending matter in it. 476 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,120 So is it your thought that we need to remove pending matter? 477 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,120 Is that what you're asking? 478 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,120 Yeah. 479 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,120 And replace with just matter or? 480 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Just take it out. 481 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,120 Okay. 482 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,120 Yeah. 483 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,120 Conflict interest. 484 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,120 Period. 485 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,120 Like delete. 486 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,120 And to my way of thinking, the more simple you make things, the better. 487 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,120 Because then there's no confusion. 488 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,120 I mean, actually in the city of San Marcos, it says at one point, 489 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,120 if you have a conflicting interest, you just shouldn't run. 490 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,120 And that was the other place I found one that was that direct. 491 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:17,120 But that's pretty direct. 492 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,120 And in fact, the whole code, if you go back to the aspirational part, 493 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,120 which is a couple pages up, 494 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,120 that's supposed to be, it should be something that might control, 495 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,120 let's say, inappropriate behavior at council meetings. 496 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,120 And again, I'm just talking alphabetically. 497 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,120 But it's so vague there. 498 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,120 Like when Borquist gives his speech, 499 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,120 and I didn't notice this until the second time I watched the film, 500 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,120 but he actually looks up, he said the expectations, 501 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,120 this is the aspirational part of the document. 502 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,120 He said, this is where you should say that you shouldn't slander each other. 503 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,120 And I was like, oh good, it's in the code. 504 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,120 And then I looked it up. 505 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,120 Does that say don't slander each other? 506 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:14,120 I mean, it doesn't define very clearly what bad behavior is. 507 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:21,120 So when he said it, he looked up at the camera, 508 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:26,120 and it's kind of a behavioral thing when people look straight ahead at a camera, 509 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,120 they're kind of telling the truth that they're not going to say the words. 510 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,120 So if you go back and look at that, 511 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,120 it's really interesting how he looks up at that point. 512 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120 And yeah, it doesn't say that you can't slander each other. 513 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:45,120 That's against the law, technically, I guess, but it's not in there. 514 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,120 And I'm sure, could we look at that definition in the medicals? 515 00:35:51,120 --> 00:36:02,120 Yes. 516 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,120 I'll say as far as having things in the conflict of interest 517 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,120 and then having them defined in the beginning, 518 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:20,120 when there's a code, people have to have notice of what is and isn't a conflict of interest. 519 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,120 And so kind of like in any statute or ordinance that's written, 520 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,120 they use pending matters, so they have to then define it to tell you what is a pending matter. 521 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:36,120 Otherwise, that would be up to us at every time that we would have a hearing 522 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,120 or have a panel on a possible conflict of interest. 523 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:45,120 If you look at this definition, it's contracts, goods, services, property, 524 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,120 and that's part of ethics, but it's not all of ethics. 525 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,120 Ethics would be if I have an interest in something and I vote 526 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,120 in a way that maybe benefits a family member. 527 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:04,120 And it may not exactly, if I curry favors, that should be an ethical violation. 528 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,120 And there's no way to cover that here. 529 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,120 I'm curious if that's what the number three on what Madison has listed here 530 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:20,120 of personal considerations and prohibitions is intended to address. 531 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,120 We could cobble something together that would probably be better. 532 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,120 I really would like to get pending matter out. 533 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:35,120 Because, obviously, a contract or, I mean, those should be unethical things 534 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:41,120 if you're voting in a way that's going to benefit you or someone related to you. 535 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:46,120 Is your concern, I'm trying to understand, make sure I understand your concern, 536 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,120 do you believe that it's, because this is where other things of value, 537 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:57,120 is it your concern that it may be about matters that aren't things of real intrinsic value, 538 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,120 but maybe of political motivation or whatnot? 539 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,120 Yeah, political motivation, yeah. 540 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,120 Because I agree with you, I don't see that covered. 541 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,120 I just wondered if that was what you were... 542 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:13,120 There was a case in, I can't remember what city, I want to say Irving, 543 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,120 but I might be wrong, where the mayor was sleeping with a developer. 544 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:26,120 And while she was sleeping with the developer, she voted a number of times to give money to him. 545 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,120 And there was nothing, the city didn't even have an ethical code, 546 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:36,120 so finally the FBI stepped in and I believe both he and she, I know they were tried, 547 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,120 I was kind of following it for a while, but I'm pretty sure they went to jail for it. 548 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,120 But I think that would be covered under the spending matter, right? 549 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:52,120 Yeah, well no, because if you voted and in the following day, 550 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:57,120 if you could scroll back to the, there's a loophole, 551 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,120 there's a really good loophole, I guess, down... 552 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,120 Is it here? 553 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,120 I think it's at the very bottom of the section, keep scrolling. 554 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,120 Here? 555 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,120 It might be at the very very bottom. 556 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,120 Very very bottom. 557 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:31,120 Sorry, I'm not sure where you are. 558 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:38,120 I know it just says this excludes potential future buyouts and... 559 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,120 I don't know if this would actually work. 560 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,120 Type in future buyouts maybe. 561 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:54,120 I'm not sure how good it's actually picking up words. 562 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,120 That's the thing that citizens have pointed out to me. 563 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,120 That's the thing that it's a great loophole. 564 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:10,120 A future buyout, I think, would mean our future... 565 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,120 In other words, if you vote on something and the next day 566 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,120 you approach that developer and say, 567 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,120 "Hey, I'd like to buy into your property." 568 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,120 There is a loophole that would like you to do that. 569 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:28,120 Go down a little bit more. 570 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:40,120 Isn't the last paragraph in that definition of conflicting interest 571 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,120 where it talks about the term conflicting interest 572 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,120 does not include ownership of an interest in the future? 573 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,120 Yes. 574 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,120 Go back up a little bit. 575 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,120 Oh, I thought it was this paragraph here. 576 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,120 Is that correct? 577 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,120 No, I'm sorry. 578 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,120 I think that's like if you have a mutual fund 579 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,120 that happens to have an interest. 580 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,120 Correct. 581 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:19,120 It's on bullet two under section A for the time period 582 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,120 including the previous calendar year and up to the date 583 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,120 where the conflicting interest arises before the city official. 584 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,120 So after that date, it's no longer considered. 585 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:36,120 That means you don't have a conflicting interest 586 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,120 at the time of the vote. 587 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,120 So your concern is that after the vote, 588 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,120 immediately after, you're not subject to this portion of the vote? 589 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,120 Yes. 590 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120 There's another thing about DOOR. 591 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,120 It's later in the document where it says that when you leave office, 592 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,120 that it's okay to do any of these things 593 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,120 if that was your business before you went to council. 594 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:10,120 So in other words, if you potentially do some kind of business with the city, 595 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,120 then the minute you leave office, you can continue to do that. 596 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:20,120 I believe that's the section that you're heading to. 597 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,120 But I might be wrong. 598 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,120 Yeah, so that's a back door. 599 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:30,120 So there's some interesting things that have slipped in there at some point. 600 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,120 And do you believe there should just be a wait period in that? 601 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,120 In most cities, there's a wait period, I think, of as long as two years. 602 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:43,120 I served, I still kind of have some connections with the city. 603 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,120 I shouldn't do business with them. 604 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:51,120 And if that's a problem, then don't run. 605 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,120 So yeah, and that's a back door, and other cities don't have that. 606 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,120 So we have something really weird. 607 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,120 I mean, university got slipped in as a business partner. 608 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:08,120 A government entity cannot be a business partner with another government entity. 609 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,120 So there's a lot of weird things that just kind of-- 610 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,120 Well, I think in this code, university is included just because 611 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:23,120 there's two big universities here that you don't want to have undue influence on city council. 612 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,120 Yeah, but they're not business partners. 613 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,120 I would bet they're different. 614 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:39,120 But if I may revert back to the definitions, we're not going to be here forever. 615 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:44,120 Laura's already told us that, you know, he's one of the entities we're going to assume. 616 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,120 But the mindset that we have, I think if the definitions are important, 617 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:56,120 then to bring back into what Annette's talking about, but it's timeless. 618 00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,120 And I think that's what's important about the definitions and that pending manner. 619 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:08,120 Now, it can be adjusted with each particular article that we're looking at, 620 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,120 but the major theme of pending matter, that's it, in my opinion. 621 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:18,120 I mean, that would be something that I could hook on to and know that that's it. 622 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,120 It's in concrete. 623 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,120 You're absolutely right. 624 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:28,120 Anything else just to have it removed, and I would agree with you, morally and ethically, 625 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,120 if you see that, you should remove yourself. 626 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,120 But there are sometimes that people, our morays are changing. 627 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:41,120 And so we may not find that to be so offensive as we did a few years ago. 628 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,120 But I think the pending matter is that time capsule that keeps us grounded. 629 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,120 And with all the definitions, in my humble opinion. 630 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:54,120 I might argue along that, that if you remove it, it has less teeth, I mean, rather than... 631 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,120 Well, it has more teeth for a contract, 632 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:02,120 but it kind of narrows the conflict of interest to kind of a business arrangement. 633 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,120 I think there's a lot more to ethics than that. 634 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,120 And really the only things that have gone before the board that have had teeth 635 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,120 didn't have to do with business contracts. 636 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,120 So getting back to the agenda item, 637 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,120 because I don't want to get too far into the weeds of discussing things 638 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,120 that Madison wants us to tell her that we need to discuss later, you know. 639 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:30,120 I mean, I think Annette has expressed concern with the entire conflict of interest, 640 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:35,120 but I mean more narrowly is like the definition of pending matter. 641 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,120 And then also I picked up on like political motivations, 642 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:44,120 maybe not whether they fit under any of the conflict of interest 643 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,120 and whether we would want them to. 644 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,120 Is there anybody else that has kind of more, you know, 645 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,120 specific thing that they want us to make sure we discuss as far as conflict of interest? 646 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:08,120 So Annette did say that she wanted to hire somebody to come in and rewrite it. 647 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,120 Is there consensus on the board for that? 648 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:15,120 Well, I mean, I would say we hired the board with sperm who, 649 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:22,120 I mean, he is a specialist in municipal law and has helped many cities write this. 650 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:28,120 And the city council at that time had, I believe, 11 public meetings to write this. 651 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:35,120 So I mean, but there were three proposals that were recommended. 652 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,120 They were from worst to best. 653 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:43,120 Council took the worst one and then there were a lot of amendments made on it 654 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,120 over a lengthy five-hour phone call. 655 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,120 And then suddenly the code comes up in a very different form. 656 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:56,120 And when the council sat in this room and decided to approve it, 657 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,120 several members objected and said it was too narrow 658 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:07,120 and that it was actually, and they were lawyers, more narrow than state law. 659 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:18,120 And they basically got batted down for lack of a better word. 660 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:28,120 So does anyone else agree that we should recommend the city hire a firm 661 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:36,120 to rewrite the conflict of interest? 662 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,120 Okay, I don't think we have consensus on that. 663 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,120 And I think you were going somewhere after that? 664 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:49,120 Well, I wanted to get direction on that, and then I've heard things about 665 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,120 pending matter, political motivations. 666 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,120 I guess I just need clear direction on what you would like me to come back with 667 00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,120 next meeting to discuss here. 668 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,120 Can we make it conflict of interest? 669 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,120 Can we compare it to other cities? 670 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:14,120 Yeah, so I can bring -- which part of that would you like me to bring back? 671 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:21,120 The idea with the five items up here was I would do that kind of peer review analysis 672 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:27,120 kind of one chunk at a time just because it would be so many cities to look at. 673 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:33,120 And so I was hoping for, with my proposal here was to get direction on 674 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,120 what you would like to start kind of working through it that way. 675 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:44,120 But we can also do other things, whatever the board would like. 676 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,120 Madam Peer? 677 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,120 Yes. 678 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:52,120 Looking at these five steps or five proposals, I'd like to know if Madison, 679 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:57,120 if you look at this, how many of these are already pretty well addressed 680 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,120 with what we have or are these new ideas that you were thinking about? 681 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:08,120 I think that the current ordinance contemplates all of these sections in some way. 682 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:15,120 So the idea was just to take what we have for each topic and compare it to 683 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,120 other cities, other peer cities that we've looked at before. 684 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:28,120 Do you feel or is there some direction here that there may be some discrepancies 685 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:33,120 or shortages with these five particular topics within our present code? 686 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,120 I was just trying to cover all of the potential topics within the code. 687 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:42,120 I don't have any -- I do not have an opinion on -- 688 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,120 Concerns are -- 689 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,120 As staff we have. 690 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,120 Thank you. 691 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:53,120 I feel like we don't have like a total consensus of what we want to do here, 692 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,120 just like kind of spitballing. 693 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,120 You know, we had that other time, Madison, 694 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,120 where you emailed everybody like here's a list of things we should talk about. 695 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,120 Can everybody rank them? 696 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:08,120 And then we, you know, went from there for, you know, for changing. 697 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,120 Go ahead. 698 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,120 I was going to say I heard definition of pending matter, 699 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:17,120 which I would say I would include if I was bringing this back under 700 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,120 disclosure and recusal procedures because that's what it's most talked about. 701 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:26,120 So we could look at that next time with comparison to the benchmark cities, 702 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,120 political motivations would be personal considerations and prohibitions. 703 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,120 We could compare those. 704 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,120 Yeah, I think that -- I think you've kind of figured that out. 705 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:41,120 So, yeah, so it's just a matter of I don't want to do all five at once 706 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:47,120 because that is a lot of work that takes me away from auditing. 707 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:53,120 So I just would like the direction of how to prioritize them, essentially. 708 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:59,120 Any other thoughts from everybody about, you know, maybe starting with those or -- 709 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,120 I can't. 710 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,120 Go ahead. 711 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,120 I would recommend just the way you've got it listed for lack of anything 712 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,120 because I don't see that there's any of those really stands out 713 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,120 as a higher priority or a higher pressing issue. 714 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:15,120 The disclosure and recusal procedures kind of cover some of the things 715 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,120 that were your concerns, right? 716 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,120 So that would put that one right up at the top. 717 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,120 And I don't see a reason not to go with the order that you've got, 718 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,120 including the things that we discussed. 719 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,120 Sure. 720 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:32,120 And I know kind of the prior two years we've talked about a lot of things, 721 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,120 recommendations and changes we want to make to the ethics code. 722 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,120 And so I don't know if there's really a whole lot other than conflict of interest 723 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,120 that we haven't kind of already decided on. 724 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,120 I kind of think as far as future meetings, like maybe we should come up 725 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,120 with a pack of everything we have so far. 726 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:54,120 I think that's all the easy stuff that we could -- that we mostly can agree on. 727 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,120 I think council agree on. 728 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,120 I think this stuff will probably be longer discussions 729 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,120 and kind of more conflict in our ideas. 730 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,120 So I'm wondering if maybe we should -- 731 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,120 Yeah. 732 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:11,120 So we could, next meeting, come back with at least one of these items if not two 733 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,120 and then also have the packet and then you could forward it to the city council. 734 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,120 Basically we'd review all of the changes that are in it currently 735 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,120 and have any discussion we need to and then send it to city council 736 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,120 and that would go before them. 737 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,120 I think that's a good idea. 738 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:31,120 Maybe next meeting kind of do the things at the beginning we always do, 739 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,120 approve the packet and maybe just start with -- 740 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:39,120 I mean maybe have an agenda item where we start with one of them 741 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:44,120 and hope to get through one and maybe have a backup just in case we all agree quickly. 742 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:51,120 And I think that would be a good way to go forward. 743 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,120 Anybody else have ideas? 744 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,120 I think it would be suicidal if you went more than two. 745 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,120 Yeah, I almost think more than one. 746 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,120 That was my concern. 747 00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:04,120 Yeah, I mean I don't -- it doesn't appear the city is giving us dinners anymore. 748 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,120 The beverage cart is very slim back there. 749 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,120 Yeah, so I don't want to keep everybody too late. 750 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,120 So go with that order. 751 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,120 Okay, so yeah, so the direction I'm hearing is to next meeting 752 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,120 begin with disclosure and recusal procedures 753 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,120 and potentially have financial considerations and prohibitions 754 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:29,120 on the back burner for that meeting if we get to it. 755 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,120 I think so. 756 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,120 I think everybody agrees with that. 757 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:41,120 If there's nothing else on that agenda item, I will go to G, BOE 22-014. 758 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:48,120 Hold the discussion and consider adoption of the 2022 meeting schedule. 759 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,120 I know, you know, during my lockdowns and stuff, 760 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,120 like 3 p.m. on Zoom was totally good for me. 761 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,120 But now that, you know, everybody's back in the office, 762 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,120 3 p.m. at my office, you know, sometimes I can make it, sometimes I can't. 763 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,120 And usually I might not know until like the day before, 764 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,120 which isn't very helpful to, you know, the staff here. 765 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,120 So, I mean, I like the 6 p.m. meetings. 766 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,120 You know, Zoom was awesome for meetings 767 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,120 because it was just easier to get to with two young kids than a full-time job. 768 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,120 But, you know, in person, I would prefer 6. 769 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,120 I have a problem with Thursday nights. 770 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,120 I can reschedule any other night. 771 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,120 I work every night until 9. 772 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,120 But I can reschedule. 773 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,120 I have a group that I run on Thursday nights. 774 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,120 I have some of them that I'm paying to cover me tonight. 775 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,120 But I can't do Thursday nights. 776 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,120 I can do any other night. 777 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,120 So, the only night that is not off the table is Tuesdays. 778 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,120 Yeah. 779 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:54,120 Yeah, I can't do Tuesday because that's my son's golf. 780 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,120 Any other thoughts on civic nights for anyone? 781 00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,120 Go ahead. 782 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,120 Thursday, I also run a group typically. 783 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,120 So, I was going to say just the Monday. 784 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:09,120 I think Monday at 6 was pretty last year. 785 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,120 Any thoughts about Monday for anyone? 786 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,120 Monday is good for anyone. 787 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:18,120 I like the 6 o'clock because I think it helps us stay focused on getting things done. 788 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,120 Yeah, and getting out. 789 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,120 To be selfish. 790 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:26,120 But I think it helps us keep that thought. 791 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,120 6 o'clock, let's get an hour, an hour and a half to move on. 792 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,120 So, I'm hearing 6 o'clock on Mondays. 793 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:32,120 Yeah. 794 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,120 I would say let's try that and then we'll see. 795 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,120 If we end up not getting a quorum, then we'll maybe talk about another night. 796 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:46,120 Would you be open to doing it the first week of every month instead of the last week? 797 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,120 I have another committee on Monday nights at 5.30. 798 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,120 On the last week of every month. 799 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,120 I guess, let's see. 800 00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,120 So, we're into April, so then we do first week of May. 801 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,120 We'll skip April since it's like first week of April next week. 802 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,120 I mean, I don't have it. 803 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,120 Does anybody have, I don't know, first, the last week, it doesn't really matter to me. 804 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,120 Here is a calendar, if you can see that. 805 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,120 So, that would be the fourth. 806 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,120 Yeah, so that would be the fourth. 807 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,120 But if we go by the chair suggested, we would skip and then go. 808 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,120 Yeah, we don't need to meet three days. 809 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,120 We could potentially do May 2nd. 810 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,120 Yeah, that sounds pretty good. 811 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:32,120 Oh, and you know, actually, a comment I had on, I think on the agenda sheet, 812 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:38,120 for instance, I'll be out of town July 2nd, which, you know, 813 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:42,120 you had mentioned the November and December is hard. 814 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:43,120 Yes. 815 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,120 I don't know, sometimes summer months I think would be hard, 816 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:51,120 but maybe we can just work through and have a core meet if we don't. 817 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,120 Did you say June 2nd could we go? 818 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:54,120 Oh, July. 819 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,120 Yeah, sorry. 820 00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,120 And that's very close to 4th of July, so that's going to go over. 821 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,120 We would not be open on the 4th of July. 822 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:09,120 So, I think, so maybe we just, you know, switch to Monday at 6, 823 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,120 first week of the month, and we'll not have, 824 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,120 well then actually November probably we could have, 825 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,120 but then not have December or January. 826 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:25,120 And I kind of think skip July because of July 4th. 827 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,120 And that's also a vacation month, I mean a lot of people will be out of town, 828 00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,120 a lot of people will be. 829 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,120 So, as far as this calendar year, we would only skip April, 830 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,120 because it's next week, July and December. 831 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:38,120 I'm thinking so. 832 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,120 Yeah, I think it works. 833 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,120 I mean, you know, if we don't have a core in one month, you know, 834 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,120 we'll just see how important things are and if we want to switch anything, 835 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,120 but maybe try this and see how it works. 836 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,120 And we'll discuss it in another meeting if it doesn't. 837 00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,120 So, we can adopt a calendar. 838 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,120 Yes. 839 00:57:55,120 --> 00:58:24,120 Let me, one second real quick, pull up these dates for skipping July. 840 00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:30,120 And then the direction was to skip December 5th as well? 841 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,120 Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I'm so, I don't know about the rest of you, 842 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:38,120 but December is so busy between Thanksgiving and Christmas. 843 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,120 I would say give us all a break. 844 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:45,120 Would you like a break in medicine because I have a book for you today? 845 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,120 I'm happy to do whatever the board would like. 846 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,120 Well, I mean, we won't, all of us will probably be working, 847 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,120 but a break from our volunteer. 848 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,120 And then January, well, I guess you don't need January. 849 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,120 I don't need January, but that would be January 2nd. 850 00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:05,120 Which probably you all want to be open anyway because that's probably correct. 851 00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,120 Okay, so then I don't know how to put it up here, 852 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:20,120 but the adoption calendar would then be May 2nd would be our next meeting, June 6th. 853 00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:32,120 There would be no meeting in July, August 1st, September 3rd, and November 7th. 854 00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:36,120 And those would be our regular meetings for the rest of this calendar year. 855 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,120 Do you need a motion for that or is that? 856 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:39,120 Yes. 857 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:44,120 Okay, well if I could have a motion for that. 858 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:49,120 David motions, second from Rob. 859 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,120 Any more discussion? 860 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,120 All in favor say aye. 861 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:53,120 Aye. 862 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,120 All opposed? 863 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,120 Any abstentions? 864 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:57,120 No. 865 00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,120 Okay, so motion carries. 866 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,120 That will be our schedule. 867 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:02,120 We'll send that out. 868 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:06,120 Okay, and Madison will send that to everyone, I think. 869 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,120 I think that's everything. 870 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,120 So I guess, wait, it's been a few months. 871 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,120 Do I need a motion to adjourn or do I just adjourn? 872 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,120 I think I can just adjourn. 873 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,120 I'll just get up and walk out. 874 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:28,120 So, all right, right in an hour, 7 p.m., I will adjourn Board of Ethics and see everybody back in May. 875 01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:29,120 All right, thank you so much. 876 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:30,120 All right, thanks.