WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.100 >> Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. 00:00:06.100 --> 00:00:09.840 Noting that we have a quorum, we will call this meeting to order. 00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:15.680 Let's start by presiding the Pledge of Allegiance and then Texas. 00:00:15.680 --> 00:00:20.280 How could you eat through the TV monitoring of ours? 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:22.960 >> We have our own rounds, don't we? 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:27.660 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:32.760 and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, 00:00:32.760 --> 00:00:37.600 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:39.580 Honor the Texas flag. 00:00:39.580 --> 00:00:47.480 I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:47.480 --> 00:00:51.480 >> Thank you, everybody. 00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:56.060 This is an emergency special call meeting of the Historic Landmarks Commission. 00:00:56.060 --> 00:00:59.100 Today is Thursday, March 17th. 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:06.540 Our first item for consideration is approval of the minutes from the month of November. 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:11.200 Those minutes were distributed in everyone's packet. 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:18.480 So, assuming you've seen those, we need a motion for approval. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:19.980 >> I have a motion on my question. 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:20.880 >> May I have a second? 00:01:20.880 --> 00:01:21.520 >> Yes. 00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:22.580 >> Motion and a second? 00:01:22.580 --> 00:01:24.320 All those in favor? 00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:24.880 >> Aye. 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:27.120 >> Aye. 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.560 Any opposed? 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.460 No, I don't think so. 00:01:31.460 --> 00:01:35.460 Okay, so the minutes are approved. 00:01:35.460 --> 00:01:41.740 And I will sign those for, I think, Ms. Monica. 00:01:41.740 --> 00:01:45.540 Here you go. 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:47.300 >> Thank you. 00:01:47.300 --> 00:01:49.240 >> Thank you. 00:01:49.240 --> 00:01:59.740 And second up this evening is COA 22-0001, to hold a public meeting and consider an application 00:01:59.740 --> 00:02:05.620 for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the DIN Development 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:11.960 Code to construct a new rear addition at 906 West Hickory Street within the Oak History 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:13.560 Historic District. 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:19.000 The site is located on the north side of West Hickory Street between North Well Street and 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.800 Barnard. 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:30.680 And I think I'll turn it over to Cameron for the presentation. 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:31.680 >> Good evening, everyone. 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:39.620 As our Chair Roy stated, we have our COA 22-0001B for a new rear addition. 00:02:39.620 --> 00:02:44.300 So, this is located on the north side of West Hickory Street between North Welch and William 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:45.200 Streets. 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:49.160 The owners are David and Diane and Michelson, and the construction date of the home was 00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:51.760 made at circa 1919. 00:02:51.760 --> 00:02:54.540 So, just a little bit of background on the building's history. 00:02:54.540 --> 00:02:58.800 It was constructed by R.A. and F.E. McClerkins Sledge. 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.280 The architectural style itself is a craftsman style. 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:05.620 Some of the defining features, as you can kind of see from these pictures, it has the 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:08.180 exposed roof rafters up here. 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:13.120 We have our low-pitched front gabled roof with unenclosed eave overhangs, which you can 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:15.520 see over here. 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.240 We have decorative brackets, a covered front porch, and paired double-hung windows. 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:28.200 So, the request is a rear building addition with a covered patio and window relocation, 00:03:28.200 --> 00:03:32.740 and this is on the north rear facade facing away from West Hickory Street, where the arrow 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:35.740 is pointed back here. 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:39.880 So, these are photos of the current condition. 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:44.400 This is showing photo number one right here, that's showing that west facade, as you can 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.100 see from the north arrow. 00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:53.120 We have our photo number two showing those north and west facades as well. 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:58.540 We have our photo number three, which is right here, on that north end of the residence, 00:03:58.540 --> 00:04:01.800 and then we have photo number four, which is on the east side. 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:08.480 I don't know if that's appropriate type of questions or not, regarding the presentation. 00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:10.040 I can take questions. 00:04:10.040 --> 00:04:13.640 I'm just a little bit confused, because the previous picture, when I was looking at it 00:04:13.640 --> 00:04:17.640 earlier, it looked like it was going to be on the west side, but everything else indicated 00:04:17.640 --> 00:04:19.680 it was going to be on the north side. 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.760 So, this is showing the north arrow, right here, so this is, if you were ... 00:04:23.760 --> 00:04:27.720 No, no, I'm saying the picture there looks like it's pointing to the west side of the 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:28.720 house. 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:34.080 Oh, it's just because I'm trying to point to the rear of the facade, just for the photo, 00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:39.520 because it's technically not visible from the street, however, because it's over ... It's 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:44.320 larger than a minor alteration or ordinary maintenance. 00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:49.360 That's why it's going in front of HLC. 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:56.200 So the materials I propose, they plan on using the original or the new wooden clapboard siding, 00:04:56.200 --> 00:05:01.560 so if they're not able to get that original, they want to use new wooden clapboard siding. 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:04.360 They are going to use the original windows. 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:09.360 They are going to match the existing roof with the gray colored asphalt shingles, and 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:15.200 then use wooden trim around the windows as well. 00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:18.160 So this is the existing elevations, as you can see. 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.040 We have the rear that you saw in the photos. 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:30.300 We have that western facade, and then we have that eastern facade right here. 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:33.600 So this is the proposed elevation. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.880 Right now they show the spacing between the two windows. 00:05:35.880 --> 00:05:37.880 They show a spacing change. 00:05:37.880 --> 00:05:42.800 The two original windows have been relocated from the kitchen to the rear right here. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:50.480 The two original windows have been removed on that eastern facade, and then the proposed 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:51.480 right elevation. 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.560 Or I mean, sorry, this is the eastern facade, this is the western facade. 00:05:55.560 --> 00:06:00.320 So the two windows have been removed, and the eastern facade, the two original windows 00:06:00.320 --> 00:06:04.440 have remained. 00:06:04.440 --> 00:06:08.600 So these are the architectural drawings, this is just the foundation plan, showing how the 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:13.280 foundation will match with the existing foundation. 00:06:13.280 --> 00:06:17.760 And then they show how the roof rafter plan and the ceiling joist plan as well, and how 00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:24.600 that will connect with the current ceiling and the roof. 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:32.200 So this is going in front of the Texas Historical Commission for a historic tax exemption. 00:06:32.200 --> 00:06:37.320 So they are currently, they've already done their part A, which is the building's historic 00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:41.800 significance and its eligibility for the tax credit program, so they are eligible. 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.640 And they received this letter on November 18, 2021. 00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:49.440 As stated, the determination was the property is a certified historic structure and can 00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:52.760 continue through the application process for that historic tax exemption. 00:06:52.760 --> 00:06:59.480 Currently, they are working on part B, which is showing their the existing conditions and 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:07.400 the proposed project and how it meets the National Register standards. 00:07:07.400 --> 00:07:10.360 So they're also going for the National Park Service review. 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:15.160 So they've done, they're working on part one, as you can see, it's also that building's 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.300 historic significance and its eligibility for the tax credit program. 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:24.200 And they received their letter on September 17, 2021. 00:07:24.200 --> 00:07:29.360 As stated, the determination was that is, it is a certified historic property, and they 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:33.400 have currently submitted their part two as well, which is also the proposed project and 00:07:33.400 --> 00:07:37.280 how it meets the standards. 00:07:37.280 --> 00:07:42.480 So staff's analysis, as you all saw in your packets, we're looking at the standards for 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:50.840 rehabilitation and we're focusing specifically on these five standards right here. 00:07:50.840 --> 00:07:56.960 But we're also looking at our DEN development code, our section 4.9.4C, as it is located 00:07:56.960 --> 00:07:59.440 in the Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:07:59.440 --> 00:08:04.000 So what we focused on, what staff focused on was that architectural detail, new construction 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:11.840 additions, additions themselves, facade materials, roof forms, and windows and doors. 00:08:11.840 --> 00:08:18.000 So staff is recommending approval subject to conditions of the COA request for the creation 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.560 of the new building addition, including the covered porch and relocation of the four of 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:27.720 the six existing windows along the west and north rear facades of the residence. 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:32.960 However, staff is recommending that the two existing windows, which are shown here, remain 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:37.960 in their current location as they match that original craftsman style and are not required 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:42.240 for the new construction. 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:43.240 Any questions? 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:44.560 I have a question. 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:48.360 Do you go back to staff's recommendation? 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:49.360 Yes. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:54.560 On this, the other side, which side am I looking at? 00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:55.560 This is the north side. 00:08:55.560 --> 00:08:56.560 The north side. 00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.560 Yes. 00:08:57.560 --> 00:08:58.560 So on the west side? 00:08:58.560 --> 00:08:59.560 Yes. 00:08:59.560 --> 00:09:02.520 Are they moving windows on the west side or are they keeping those? 00:09:02.520 --> 00:09:16.200 So they are moving this window, which you can see right here. 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.440 This window is being moved and this one is being moved. 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.440 Those two windows are being moved. 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:21.440 Yes. 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:22.440 It's not on the other side. 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:23.440 Correct. 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.440 So that they can put the addition right here. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:26.440 Okay. 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:27.440 Okay. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.680 And my other question for that was according to the building code, I know they said they're 00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:32.960 going to use the original ones. 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:33.960 Is that allowed? 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:34.960 The original windows? 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:35.960 Yes. 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:36.960 It is? 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:37.960 Yes. 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:38.960 Okay. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:39.960 Yes. 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:46.040 I'm not sure how much it matters, but are they not going to have a back door at all? 00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:47.680 What's in new? 00:09:47.680 --> 00:09:48.680 They are. 00:09:48.680 --> 00:09:51.000 The door is proposed here. 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:52.600 So it's on this wall. 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.560 It's on that eastern wall right here. 00:09:54.560 --> 00:09:55.920 So it's right there. 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:56.920 Yeah. 00:09:56.920 --> 00:09:58.920 So they'll have an exit towards the rear. 00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:03.400 Another question, if one of the windows that they're going to move is damaged in the process, 00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:06.920 do they have to reapply or anything to use with us? 00:10:06.920 --> 00:10:07.920 Yes. 00:10:07.920 --> 00:10:08.920 Yes. 00:10:08.920 --> 00:10:09.920 Okay. 00:10:09.920 --> 00:10:10.920 Yes. 00:10:10.920 --> 00:10:12.640 So if one of the windows is damaged in the process and they have to replace it with a 00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:17.360 new window, they will have to come to us. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:27.400 Any more additional questions? 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:43.600 Can you scroll back to the slide that has the five standards that you guys consider? 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:48.360 Yes. 00:10:48.360 --> 00:11:05.880 Okay, so we haven't done this in a while. 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:14.080 So here's just a ... Well, what happens is the HLC has essentially four options. 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:18.840 And the way it works is we need a motion and a second, and then we move into the discussion 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:19.840 phase. 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:20.840 Okay. 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:25.400 After we've discussed it enough, then we call a vote and it'll get voted depending on the 00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:26.400 nature of the motion. 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:36.260 If we do nothing, there's no motion, then this would be approved by default in about 00:11:36.260 --> 00:11:37.260 a week, right? 00:11:37.260 --> 00:11:38.260 Two weeks. 00:11:38.260 --> 00:11:42.320 It would go to the next ... Or if we don't approve it ... 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:43.320 Back to city council. 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:44.320 Well, if there's no motion coming forward. 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:45.320 Hillary, do you know? 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:46.320 This one works 75 days. 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.320 Let's assume that ... Oh yes. 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:48.320 So it would be, you just continue on at 75 day. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:49.320 Of course, sorry. 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:50.320 Is it ... The option ... Yes, sir. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:51.320 I'm sorry. 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:52.320 Would it be, when you say by default, would it be per the staff recommendations or per 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:53.320 what they're applying for? 00:11:53.320 --> 00:12:08.320 So could they move those, for example, could they move those two windows on the north side? 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:11.520 It just goes back to default. 00:12:11.520 --> 00:12:12.880 They wouldn't be able to do any work. 00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:13.880 Correct. 00:12:13.880 --> 00:12:14.880 Okay. 00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:15.880 I misunderstood. 00:12:15.880 --> 00:12:16.880 Thank you. 00:12:16.880 --> 00:12:17.880 Great. 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:18.880 Okay. 00:12:18.880 --> 00:12:22.880 So the normal options are approved as submitted, approved subject to conditions that we set 00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:24.560 how we want things perhaps done. 00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:33.280 We can deny it, or we can continue the item to either indefinitely, which removes it permanently, 00:12:33.280 --> 00:12:35.480 or to a state specific. 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:36.480 Okay. 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:43.160 So we'll ... I'll entertain a motion. 00:12:43.160 --> 00:12:44.160 Yes, ma'am. 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:54.040 I move to approve COA 22-001B with conditions, and that would be a staff recommendation with 00:12:54.040 --> 00:12:57.040 those windows as presented by staff. 00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:58.040 Perfect. 00:12:58.040 --> 00:12:59.040 Do we have a second? 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:00.040 Second. 00:13:00.040 --> 00:13:01.040 We have two seconds. 00:13:01.040 --> 00:13:02.040 Okay. 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:04.480 So let's roll it out without a discussion. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:08.540 So what you're primarily concerned about is the spacing of those two windows need to match 00:13:08.540 --> 00:13:12.640 the other one, the staff recommendation, right? 00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:14.280 Right. 00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:20.680 Now they're reusing two windows, but aren't there two new windows being put in as well? 00:13:20.680 --> 00:13:21.680 No. 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:25.960 So they are removing ... Oh, I should have taken out two other windows. 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:26.960 Yes. 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:27.960 They've used those two there. 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:28.960 Yes. 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:29.960 Yes. 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:30.960 Yes. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:31.960 That's what I was confused on originally, Roy. 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:32.960 Right. 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.960 Okay. 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.880 Any other questions or comments or ... I mean chime in. 00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:39.880 Floor's open. 00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:46.620 I guess I'm curious about the necessity to change their plans on the windows. 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:54.840 I mean, I'm not sure how necessary that is to preserve it, given the fact that, one, 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:01.680 it's not visible by, you know, by anyone that's in there on the rear elevation of the building. 00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:11.960 I'm not sure how much of a difference that really makes. 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:17.380 Okay. 00:14:17.380 --> 00:14:19.720 So I'll pose it like this. 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:27.640 So in a house of this period, would always the windows be paired with the same spacing? 00:14:27.640 --> 00:14:31.880 I mean, I'm not driving around, it's a question for you guys, yes. 00:14:31.880 --> 00:14:32.880 Yes. 00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:36.600 So that spacing would look odd to someone who did. 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.400 And so one of our standards is to make sure whatever we permit is consistent with the 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:48.520 historic time period from this home, which is, I think, why they're making a recommendation. 00:14:48.520 --> 00:14:54.000 So given what I'm looking at there, if the recommendation is to move those close together, 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.620 is it specifically to match the ones on the west side? 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:06.640 It is to just remain as where they're located currently and not space them apart. 00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:09.640 So as to retain that. 00:15:09.640 --> 00:15:14.560 The two sets would still be different from one another, given that those pictures there. 00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:15.560 Correct. 00:15:15.560 --> 00:15:18.840 So it would basically, if you would take these windows and place them right here and just 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:19.840 keep them. 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.240 But they seem, even where they are now seems further apart than when they're proposed ones 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:25.200 on the right. 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:26.200 Right. 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.560 So they are, yeah, the spacing does look a little off compared to what they are placed 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:35.240 right there. 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:40.840 And moving those two windows does not have to be part of the project. 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:41.840 Correct. 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:42.840 Okay. 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.880 That's kind of what did it for me too. 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:49.520 So these two windows are what staff is recommending, just stay the same instead of being spaced 00:15:49.520 --> 00:15:53.720 apart and just leaving them as is because they're not required as part of the construction 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:54.720 of the addition. 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.720 Well, it's probably smarter that they don't in case they get broken, they don't want to 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.240 have to come back here again. 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:02.240 Okay. 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.360 Any other discussion or questions for staff, comments? 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.400 So we're not putting any requirements on where those two windows that are being moved, where 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:13.960 they are in relation to the spacing on those, correct? 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:14.960 Correct. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.360 Staff is not making any recommendations on where they need to be located. 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:25.120 Staff agrees with what is currently proposed except for this space change right here. 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.120 All right. 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:31.440 I wonder if that was just an issue with the plans, was there anything else? 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.840 I wonder why they would completely redo that one, not necessarily. 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.680 It would probably have to because of fire code. 00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:41.720 Well, so in the plans, I didn't see in the presentation, but they had a proposed wall 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:43.680 removal of only that one wall. 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:48.480 They didn't show that they were actually removing the wall that that window change was going 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.480 to be in. 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.080 So this wall right here? 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.080 Right. 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.960 Whereas the further north wall, they're not showing removing that wall at all or making 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:57.960 any changes to it. 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:02.880 So I'm wondering if those windows being further apart was just maybe a mistake on the design 00:17:02.880 --> 00:17:03.880 part. 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:09.880 And I was to say, the applicant isn't here tonight and he did inform me that these windows 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:10.880 weren't supposed to change. 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.680 They were supposed to just stay as is, however, staff needed to continue with the recommendation 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.360 because we were not provided any new drawings. 00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:21.960 And those are the windows on the lower left photo. 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:22.960 Those are just. 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:23.960 Yes. 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:24.960 This is the north side. 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:25.960 And they're just staying right where they're at? 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:26.960 Correct. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:27.960 Yes. 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:28.960 Got it. 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:29.960 Okay. 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:30.960 All right. 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:37.080 We have a motion and a second and we've had discussion no further. 00:17:37.080 --> 00:17:38.440 I'll call a vote. 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.200 All those in favor, raise your hand and say aye. 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:42.200 Aye. 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.200 Aye. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.200 All right. 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.760 All those in favor, raise your hand. 00:17:48.760 --> 00:17:49.760 Aye. 00:17:49.760 --> 00:17:50.760 Aye. 00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:51.760 Aye. 00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:52.760 Aye. 00:17:52.760 --> 00:17:53.760 Aye. 00:17:53.760 --> 00:17:54.760 Aye. 00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:55.760 Aye. 00:17:55.760 --> 00:17:56.760 Aye. 00:17:56.760 --> 00:17:57.760 Aye. 00:17:57.760 --> 00:17:58.760 Aye. 00:17:58.760 --> 00:17:59.760 Aye. 00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:00.760 Aye. 00:18:00.760 --> 00:18:01.760 Aye. 00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:02.760 Aye. 00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:03.760 Okay. 00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:04.760 Next on our agenda. 00:18:04.760 --> 00:18:16.080 Is HAL 22-0001B hold a public meeting and determine whether the presented expenses resulted in 00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:21.600 a permanent improvement or restoration of a local historic landmark property located 00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:23.960 at 123 North Elm Street. 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:30.640 The site is located on the south side of West Oak Street between Cedar and North Elm Street. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:31.640 Cameron's going to make her presentation. 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:32.640 Thank you, Chair. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.760 So this is for 123 North Elm Street. 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:39.920 This is for a historic tax exemption. 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.880 So as stated, it's at 123 North Elm. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.520 It's on the south side of West Oak between Cedar Street and North Elm Street. 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:51.920 The owners are Denton TriStar Investments LLC. 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.160 So it is a local historic landmark. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:59.800 People know it as the scripture building and it was built circa 1882. 00:18:59.800 --> 00:19:07.080 The request is for a historic landmark tax exemption according to section 10-128. 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:10.320 Some of the repairs and updates that were made are roof repairs and general maintenance 00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:16.120 of window seals, brick around door at front north side of building and general loose brick, 00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:21.320 hand painted distress signage, sealant of interior brick and updated flooring in suite 00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:22.600 303. 00:19:22.600 --> 00:19:29.600 The total cost is $33,832.99. 00:19:29.600 --> 00:19:34.840 So this is just a photo of some of the roof repairs that were done to the building, the 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:47.120 hand painted distress signage as you can see, the brick repair done around the door itself. 00:19:47.120 --> 00:19:54.240 So staff is in analysis as looking at section 10-128D, which is doing that it allows for 00:19:54.240 --> 00:20:00.920 additional 10-year exemption which requires a property owner to spend a minimum amount 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:08.720 of $10,000 additional in terms of permanent improvements and/or restoration to the property. 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:13.480 So staff recommends that they roll determination that the expenses presented with the exception 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.680 of the hand painted distress signage resulted in permanent improvement and/or restoration 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:22.120 of the landmark property located at 123 North Elm Street. 00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:27.360 With the exception of the signage, the applicant still needs that minimum $10,000 or more requirements 00:20:27.360 --> 00:20:32.160 stated in the city's code of ordinances, section 10-128D. 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.840 Any questions? 00:20:34.840 --> 00:20:35.840 Okay questions? 00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:40.200 Do we need a motion first or? 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.240 I'll ask for that, yeah technically, well let me see what our options are. 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:54.520 Our options on this one are to make a favorable finding of improvement, make an unfavorable 00:20:54.520 --> 00:21:00.800 finding of improvement, deny the request or continue either indefinitely or to the time 00:21:00.800 --> 00:21:01.800 specific. 00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:08.280 So if we're done with questions for staff then yes we need a motion to move into discussion 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:10.280 phase in a second. 00:21:10.280 --> 00:21:17.720 I move to accept HL 22-0001B as appropriate expenses. 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:18.720 Second. 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.440 Do we have a motion in a second? 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:26.440 I'll throw the floor open for discussion, just help yourself. 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:34.600 I am glad for the staff's recommendation because of the signage part there, because if we remember 00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:40.800 back when we had some other discussion on another building of signage it can come and 00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:41.800 go. 00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:46.040 And so I totally agree with that and I think they did meet it without that signage part, 00:21:46.040 --> 00:21:52.560 but I think we do need to put in there that the signage, if it was a historic sign I would 00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:55.640 go with that, but it's not, but they still meet it. 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:05.080 That's why I was going to ask, is it an original signage or is it something contemporary? 00:22:05.080 --> 00:22:08.400 I went back and looked at the code on this because I'm kind of confused about the exemption 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.400 in general. 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.240 I don't know if we had a discussion about it before about how it seemed kind of insignificant, 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:17.120 but it actually looks more significant than I think maybe some people thought. 00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:24.000 It looks like it's a 50% reduction in the City of Denton taxable value, which on this 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:32.320 property is almost $1400 a year over 10 years, I mean it's significant, but I guess what 00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:37.960 I'm curious about is, is there any time backwards, how far back can they go? 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:44.520 I don't know that the code was overly clear on how old the repairs can be because this 00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:45.520 is $33,000. 00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:50.000 Do they have to use all $33,000 on this or could they save $10,000 and use it again in 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:51.000 10 years? 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.280 Because like I said, I don't think that's very clear. 00:22:54.280 --> 00:22:56.960 It sounds like it can go back indefinitely to 2009. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:57.960 I don't see what you're saying. 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:02.640 So if it's 10 years now, I see what you're saying. 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:08.400 I think it says 10,000 or more beyond those demonstrated for the initial or a subsequent 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.400 exemption. 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:15.480 So they could, yeah, if they do a $50,000 repair, they could use that for the next 50 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:16.480 years. 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:17.480 I think that would be right. 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:24.640 I mean, if I were them, I would, well, first of all, I would expect that if someone, that 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:30.120 particular part of the code might be adjusted if we thought that was abusive somehow, but 00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:31.120 I don't know why you wouldn't. 00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:37.040 Yeah, I mean, it seemed to go in well in excess of it on this, so it's, you know, and I think 00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:41.240 the group work alone is, falls well within the things. 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:42.240 Right. 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.960 I don't see an issue with that. 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:48.680 I just was kind of more curious about a little deeper on it. 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:53.240 I'm just glad people are keeping them up. 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:54.240 I think it's amazing. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:00.480 The incentive, I think, is amazing too, because it gets costly on older structures. 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.480 We know that. 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.480 Very much so. 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.480 Okay. 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.200 So, any other discussion, questions, comments? 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:09.200 All right. 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:17.320 We have a motion and a second to approve this tax exemption application. 00:24:17.320 --> 00:24:20.320 All those in favor signify by raising your right hand. 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:21.320 Yes, ma'am. 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:24.320 If I could just seek clarification to make sure we understand what the motion is. 00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:29.320 So, because what I heard from Commissioner Kegel was that it was a motion for a favorable 00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:34.320 determination, but was that as submitted by the applicant or as recommended by staff? 00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:35.320 Because I know some of the discussion. 00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:36.320 Signed. 00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:37.320 You're right. 00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:40.120 So, I just want to clarify what your motion is. 00:24:40.120 --> 00:24:44.720 Well, if I can amend my motion, I'll do it with staff recommendations. 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:45.720 Yes. 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.360 Let's go ahead and get another second on that. 00:24:48.360 --> 00:24:49.360 Second. 00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:50.360 Okay. 00:24:50.360 --> 00:24:58.960 We have, the motion is that we make a favorable finding of improvement subject to the staff's 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:03.280 limitations that the expenditures for the signage do not qualify. 00:25:03.280 --> 00:25:04.280 Fairly stated. 00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:05.280 Yes. 00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:07.840 So, that is our motion. 00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:11.240 We've had any further discussion? 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.480 All those in favor signify by raising and saying aye. 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:15.480 Aye. 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.480 So, unanimous. 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:22.360 I'm getting rusty with this one. 00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:26.200 You're doing a great job. 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:33.760 The final thing on, all right, so we are now moving out of the public section of our meeting 00:25:33.760 --> 00:25:41.280 and moving into a works session and what they would like us to do is they provided a copy 00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:46.360 of a calendar for everyone here in front of you, is to approve the remaining meetings 00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:50.880 for calendar 22. 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:59.160 So, I don't know any, there really won't even necessarily be a motion coming out of this 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.120 other than probably majority vote. 00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:04.840 Well, let's just roll through and I'll highlight the meetings. 00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:11.440 The next one is scheduled for this coming Monday, the 21st, assuming all meetings would 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.640 be here in this location and at 530. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:21.360 I assume there's more to cover on Monday that's going to require that beyond what we did today. 00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:22.360 Yes. 00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:28.600 Yes, I think you said there were two COAs and two more tax exemptions and then we had 00:26:28.600 --> 00:26:35.960 a workshop, which I think will in detail go through some of the tax exemption stuff, right? 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:41.640 That is not scheduled for, the 21st will be scheduled for April. 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.880 The next meeting beyond that would be April the 11th. 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:53.000 Now, as your resident CPA, I can't guarantee I'll be here for that one, but if we get enough 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.480 fill-ins we should be fine. 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:58.720 The next one after that is May the 9th. 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:02.480 Okay, so as I roll through this, if someone has an objection and wants to move one, this 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.440 is the time to scream out. 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.920 Hey, I don't like that one, right? 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:12.880 I'm just wondering, instead of going, they're all on the second Monday of every month except 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.000 for July and September. 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.720 And I think that was because there were holidays. 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.920 My thought is it's just easier to keep up with the second Monday of every month because 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:29.320 I get confused on those months, if that makes sense, because it's not the week of a holiday. 00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:33.760 So could we move those and just keep it the second Monday of every month? 00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:36.240 So July the 11th then would be our program? 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:46.280 It would be July 11th and September 10th, 12th, yeah. 00:27:46.280 --> 00:27:53.680 July would be the 11th instead of the 18th and September would be the 12th instead of 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:54.680 the 19th. 00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:59.080 Okay, so is there, do we know if this is shifted because of some other commitment for this 00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:00.080 room? 00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:01.080 Oh, I have no idea. 00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:02.080 That doesn't look good. 00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:03.080 Can I real quick? 00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:04.080 Which day did you prefer? 00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:05.080 The 11th? 00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:06.080 No, I just wonder. 00:28:06.080 --> 00:28:12.400 I can come either day, just to keep in my mind when I'm doing things, the second Monday 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:18.680 of every month sticks, except it's just hard to remember, oh, July and September are changing 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.680 and I don't know why they changed to the third Monday. 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.680 Especially when planning and zoning didn't do the same thing. 00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:25.680 Right. 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.880 And if I can offer some insight, it's my understanding that from a scheduling standpoint that I think 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.560 there's been some precedent in the past when there's been, I know at least with Council's 00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:41.240 meetings, when Monday is a holiday, then they normally would not meet that week and then 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.440 because they typically meet on Tuesdays, right? 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:49.880 The planning and zoning commission, we meet on Wednesdays so we've got a little more flexibility 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.440 because we're not coming back into a meeting right after a holiday weekend. 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:59.080 But I think it's my understanding though that when we've had a Monday holiday, then that's 00:28:59.080 --> 00:29:00.440 when we've shifted our meetings. 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:05.320 But if it's the desire of the commission to keep it, for example, on the second Monday 00:29:05.320 --> 00:29:09.720 of every month, we should be able to make that happen from a staff's perspective. 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:14.760 I think Monica might be checking the room availability but otherwise I would think we 00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:22.120 could make that happen and then because it does provide some normalcy to that schedule 00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:26.360 and you're not having to keep up with which holiday or which months have a Monday holiday 00:29:26.360 --> 00:29:28.240 that first Monday of the month. 00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:34.160 But just to let you know, from a staff's perspective, we would be amenable to that change provided 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:36.360 that we have the room available. 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:40.040 Yes, it looks like it works. 00:29:40.040 --> 00:29:43.840 On the 11th of July, what about September 12th? 00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:54.920 We have the, the only thing is that we have like PNZ and Council on the same week. 00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:56.760 And which day do you prefer for September? 00:29:56.760 --> 00:29:57.760 The 12th. 00:29:57.760 --> 00:30:00.760 Yeah, Monday the 12th of September. 00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:12.600 This will be more predictable for our best viewership. 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:16.920 There's a bit of a bailing for that room. 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:17.920 Okay. 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:18.920 All right. 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.360 So I'm just going to roll through these quickly and then we'll have a vote to approve. 00:30:22.360 --> 00:30:27.640 March the 21st, next Monday, April the 11th. 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:37.360 May the 9th, June the 13th, July the 11th, August the 8th, September the 12th, October 00:30:37.360 --> 00:30:43.400 the 10th, November the 14th and December the 12th. 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:44.400 Okay. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:50.480 All those who are in favor of approving this calendar signify by raising your right hand. 00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.800 I unfortunately don't know what I would be in town. 00:30:53.800 --> 00:30:58.920 I don't have my calendar with me and I don't know whether my calendar fits with this. 00:30:58.920 --> 00:30:59.920 So okay. 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:02.920 I can only vote yes. 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:09.080 Well, what I would ask of the commission is that when you have an opportunity to look 00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:14.240 at your calendar or if you have something come up, the sooner you let us know in advance 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:19.400 the better off we are because obviously achieving quorum is extremely important to us and we're 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:24.360 working on looking to try and reduce our quorum from five down to four because of the fact 00:31:24.360 --> 00:31:26.280 that we've had some vacancies in the past. 00:31:26.280 --> 00:31:32.080 So but just the key thing for us is communication because when we're not able to achieve quorum 00:31:32.080 --> 00:31:36.240 then that impacts us not being able to review applications because there are some things 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.040 we can approve administratively but there are several things that we cannot approve 00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:41.040 administratively. 00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:45.040 So I would just ask that you reach out to Monica or Cameron if you've got something 00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:49.240 that's coming up with a schedule conflict because if we're not able to achieve quorum 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:54.000 then we've got to be able to pivot accordingly and we might reach out to you to see if there's 00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:00.020 an alternate date in the month that would work best but so like I said just communicate 00:32:00.020 --> 00:32:04.360 with us frequently and of course we also have the city email addresses that we would ask 00:32:04.360 --> 00:32:08.960 that you make sure you keep up with correspondence on that as well. 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.680 Okay, I believe that concludes our agenda. 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:12.680 Yes, ma'am. 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:19.760 I was just gonna say I really appreciate the note that came to my regular email. 00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:22.760 Those are nice because it just goes oh yeah I gotta go check it. 00:32:22.760 --> 00:32:23.760 So that's a nice touch. 00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:31.080 But just a friendly reminder that we have to stop emailing that for the city secretary's 00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:32.080 office. 00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:33.080 The reminders? 00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:36.600 No, not the reminder but like emailing your personal emails. 00:32:36.600 --> 00:32:37.600 The reminder. 00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:45.400 The reminder that I sent to your personal email is gonna stop and I'm only gonna be 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.200 sending it to your city email. 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:55.640 Okay, well we kind of, all right, we're asking you not to stop that because that helps us 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.080 make a quorum and so whatever we need to do to the city secretary's office or the city 00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:02.160 council to waive that let's do that. 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.940 Is there anybody that checks their email frequently that can just email them? 00:33:07.940 --> 00:33:15.560 Well, I don't know why this is so because the whole thing is posted anyway so it's 00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:16.560 not a secret. 00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:23.240 So it's to protect you and to not get too off-topic since we're posted for the calendar 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.560 and not so much the email but I would just say that the reason why those email addresses 00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:31.600 have been set up is to offer protection to you because your personal email addresses 00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:36.680 would otherwise be subject to open records and so by having a city email address we're 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:41.080 able to push all that communication to you that way and so it's for your protection 00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:42.400 as a volunteer. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.720 But for her, the notification email. 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:50.880 I understand and we're more than happy to revisit with the city secretary's office and 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.840 if we need to have a future item on the agenda posted to have more in-depth discussion on 00:33:54.840 --> 00:33:59.160 this, happy to do so but we can follow up with them and see if anything's changed but 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.320 I know the message has been that we need to utilize the city email addresses. 00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:04.320 Okay. 00:34:04.320 --> 00:34:08.600 Would a text notification likewise be subject to an open records act? 00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:10.640 That's a good question. 00:34:10.640 --> 00:34:14.040 We can follow up with the commission and maybe follow up with an email again because we're 00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:16.480 starting to deviate from our posting on the agenda. 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:21.240 Is we've actually, I mean, this year we've already had two meetings that haven't happened 00:34:21.240 --> 00:34:25.640 because of a lack of corn and I really wouldn't want that to be because somehow we're not 00:34:25.640 --> 00:34:26.640 getting the message out. 00:34:26.640 --> 00:34:27.640 If we can, right? 00:34:27.640 --> 00:34:28.640 If we can. 00:34:28.640 --> 00:34:29.640 Okay. 00:34:29.640 --> 00:34:30.640 I believe that concludes our agenda so we stay in the journey. 00:34:30.640 --> 00:34:30.640 Thank you.