Feb 08, 2022 City Council on 2022-02-08 10:00 AM (WORK SESSION)

Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council we have it's a work session meeting today is Tuesday February 8th it is 1027 a.m. and we now have a quorum so I'll call the meeting to order we only have a couple of items on the agenda today first thing is the item a ID two two zero nine six receive report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the draft of the 2022 mobility plan for City of Denton any city engineer director of capital projects here to share with you today thank you so much for having us back today I am going to walk through some of the comments and questions that we have received I'm going to be assisted today by Pritam Deshmukh of our transportation planning team and also also Nathan George just some high-level overview we're going to talk about some of the key focus areas of the mobility plan talk about City of Denton master plans of course discuss the purpose some of the function of transportation systems talk about that holistic view of a mobility plan review some of the comments responses we received and then of course have that opportunity for questions I just want to make mention that at the last meeting that we had on January 25th another were quite a few comments in regards to safety we heard you we understand we absolutely will make that modification to take goal number seven and make it goal number one as we know that this mobility plan update is to address the travel needs priorities and safety for each mode next thing I just wanted to mention you know with the city has multiple master plans you can see some of the covers I have presented here before you the overall mobility plan really its goal is to coordinate with those two that you see circled in red that didn't plan 2040 which I know you're going to hear about next and then that overall parks trails master plan master plan I wanted to just highlight the purpose of the mobility plan I know we talked a little bit about this last time I just I wanted to share this slide that shows the mobility 2045 plan that cog has to really help everyone understand that this is a multimodal transportation network that is goal is to accommodate growth not only locally within the city of Denton but regionally over the next 30 years you can really see from the system that's located over here on the map to the left of your screen this is not a closed disconnected system some of the outer loop roadways that we show on our mobility plan are those connective tissues between Denton County and Colling County similarly you can see the loop 288 West and then of course our 35 W 35 V and then 35 going through the entire county so these are our pieces that connect us to other counties I know you're all aware of this but it was a really good graphical representation that help shows this the reason why I wanted to bring this to your attention is really for the the purpose of helping explain to you that this helps us secure the state and fund all funding to do projects with infrastructure as you know these roadway networks are connecting between the two counties whether we go east south west etc. you know the flexibility of the mobility plan is a very important part that we I wanted to make sure you know I heard a lot of questions our team did talking about you know can we move this line here can we address this line there you know I will explain to you that the mobility plan is really a graphical representation it's a living document it's a guide it helps show where those roadway alignments are for those proposed street networks particularly in the green fields they can be adjusted I'm going to show you an example here in a couple of minutes we know that these roadways are long-term needs and they will not be built tomorrow but we want to make sure that we're being apparent with as you can tell from the 25 2045 mobility plan from cog you know there's already quite a few roadway networks that are being planned roadways of course you know this they're constructed based on capacity occurrences or needs through the capital planning projects also as developments occur so we want to make sure that we're looking at these lines on the map seeing how they align with development and I know that's something that definitely has come up through our questions and just to really explain that mobility plans are typically updated every five years and with that comes also that roadway impact fee update that I know we're going to be bringing forward to you in the near future I'm going to turn it over to preach him he's going to talk a lot about I know there were a lot of questions about different classifications of roadways can we take one primary arterial turn it into two secondary arterials etc preach him is going to walk through roadway function so we can help address some of those concerns and comments that we received okay thank you thank you Becky good morning mayor members of the council pretend a schmuck I really wanted to touch on the important question it was a common theme about hey can we take our system and really get rid of these primary arterials get at these large roadways and just replace them with collectors and secondary highways and so on so forth in order to understand that I'll get a little bit detail in depth with some of the transportation planning concepts and then guide you in the following slide why exactly do we need that various combination of different types of roadway functional roadway system so the primary function want to start with is for a roadway is two things access and mobility I want you to look at the right side of this with this graph and really explain graphically what exactly I'm trying to I'm trying to talk about so if you look at the x-axis there's mobility on the x-axis and then y-axis is the actual access to different types of land uses so when I mentioned access is actually a connection to a single-family residential so it provides access to your home or or your business and when I talk about mobility it is actually looking at taking a person from point a to point B people going to work people going to grocery shopping so on and so forth so those are the two primary function and if you start looking at this map and follow the s-curve with the different colors those are the different four functional type of roadways roadways as you can see in the blue you have the local roadways which comprise approximately of 75% of all roadways within the city and as you can see there they have a really high access they're up there they their primary function is to provide access to your homes or businesses and so on so forth and then then you get into the next functional classification which is the collectors now collectors have both they have a higher a little bit higher level of access compared to the other classifications but it also has that mobility so they they help you take the traffic from a residential neighborhood out into the arterials they approximately comprise about 10% of the roadways then you go on to the next classification which is the secondary secondary arterials or minor arterials these arterials then collect all the traffic and then move them help them move from point a to point B you can see as you go further along the mobility is the primary function and access becomes a lesser of a function so that's very important to understand what why these classifications are required and then finally you have all these principal arterials their their main primary function is to get a person from point a to point B which is mobility and provide a very low amount of access so all of these individual roadways and design features should match their intended use so when when we get into the design concepts and design features of these roadway we look at these individual usage as to find out how much of this roadway will be used for access and how much will be used for mobility and then there has to be an appropriate balance between these competing functions so that's how we design roadways when we when we get into the design piece but for mobility let me move on to the next slide why why do we need all these different types of roadways we need an appropriate mix to give the greatest degree of safety and efficiency for the entire system a transportation system should be built not only with local roadways or collectors or secondaries it should have some of these principal arterials they're very small percentage if you looked at the looked at the percentage it was about five percent so we need that what happens with that is actually if if you have a system that only has one or two type of roadways so you only have collectors local roadways and you don't have arterials all of the traffic will now start using those collectors your local roadways and the mobility will happen through the roadways that that have functionally been designed as local roadways for access so now you're changing the function and that creates an unsafe situation so that's that's why you have to have a mix and a combination of different types of roadway to define and and make up a good transportation system you have to also keep in mind that these larger primary arterials are also used not only by local traffic by a person living in Denton want to go to Dallas for work but also for someone that is coming from outside of the community traversing through the community and then leaving the community to go to another destination so that's why in order to provide a robust system all these different types of classification of roadways are required within a good transportation network and that's that was the goal why we had different types of roadways within the map and then I'll hand it back to Becky she'll move on to the next slide so we could make the presentation without the buzz word that's holistic y'all know y'all hear me say that all the time I want you to know Rachel would before she left to go to her new position gave me a bracelet with holistic inscribed on it with a heart so it's with me at all times guys when we look at this we have to understand this from a holistic standpoint and I know there's been a lot of comments our team has received specifically related to the lines that are on the map the dashed lines can we move this here can we change this classification of a roadway what I want to make sure everyone understands is the lines that are on the map or graphical representations based on what we know today the goals that are a part of the mobility plan help give us those guidelines those goals those objectives those strategies to provide safety and all the other types of goals that we have within the system you see facilitate alternative transportation options you know we've talked a lot about this being a multimodal plan we talked about prioritizing safety we heard you loud and clear that's number one without a doubt we're making the change we want it to be an effective network of travel we want folks to be able to leave their home and as Preacham was explaining then get to the next classification of roadway where the speed will increase a little bit then to the next classification of roadway so then ultimately they're on a highway a freeway an arterial so that they can get to and from where they need to be in a successful manner we also want to always leverage our innovation so I wanted just to highlight how important it is that these maps and these graphical representations are completely in alignment with the goals and objectives and when we look at how are we going to develop based on these different these different lines on the map these different secondary primary collectors etc how we take those goals into play when we move from this being just a planning level guidance document into those next steps and let me see if I can get to the cursor so we can move on this is how we go from it being a policy level guidance document that those are lines on the map they help guide and direct those different types of classifications we then as we move from that policy level into design standards we go to the didn't development code it tells us how we're going to develop we use the transportation criteria manual that specifically talks about the different classifications of the roadways that's the design document that engineers and planners are going to use to help understand how we're going to move through the process that's where we get into the nuts and bolts and the heavy engineering and the heavy detailed information we move from there into the specifications to tell you how you're going to build a road and of course we can't leave out the standard details because there's many different options to choose from and this is just a cafeteria plan of options that show primary and secondary modified etc there are different things that can happen throughout these cross sections that are shown I know the mayor mentioned he really likes boulevards well there's opportunities to make some improvements when you're looking at different classifications but that doesn't happen until you get to the design so I just want everybody to understand and keep in mind based on the feedback we received you know really the purpose of this mobility plan is to give us those guidance documents I'm going to give you an example where you're going to see where this came into play so here we go this mobility plan pictured that you see which is from the the draft mobility plan you can tell this green line that's going through this area so this is the representative sample that shows hey here's a lot on a map here's a schematic guess what happens developer a comes in and says I want to develop and they say hey let's look at this we don't want to cut directly through their property it doesn't make sense so how can we better align this roadway so that we can get from point a to point B still allowing them to develop what's necessary in the area of which the land they own so this is a modification that we're making in order to still get the representative information that you see on the mobility plan but take it from that high level planning document specifically through that development and design phase I wanted to make mention to the comment response log I appreciate sincerely all the comments that we received we did receive some additional comments Sunday and even some additional comments yesterday we are happy to address and continue to answer questions as they come in I know that's the purpose of today and also of course the purpose if need be of the meeting Monday I will mention that a lot of the very detailed information on each individual area would be something that we would consider as we work through those area plans that we've mentioned before I'm just really some common themes though if you look at the comment response log that's included as exhibit 3 in your backup a lot of the information we've touched on today we've touched on the different types and classifications of roadways we've touched on that holistic view and how we go from a planning level document where the team would actually take the next steps to make it a design document we've touched on safety we know that safety is the number one priority of this council we also have touched on several of the different roadways that have been talked about I know Thunderbird was mentioned we appreciate that bringing brought to our attention we're gonna make a minor change to that instead of turning up north and connecting to Windsor we're gonna work to connect directly across east-west on the Bonnie break that makes more sense that's that's a great response and we appreciate receiving that there's some others that have been received and our planning friends helped us with some of the the Kings Way comments that were made and Kings Row area comments that was a part of a Friday report so want to make sure you know everyone works through Mingo is another one that came up that's a CIP project we're in the 30% design phase of that it's very high level at this point kind of working through those next steps wanted to just take the time to you know I know that there were some comments and questions about you know as traffic pattern changes that's the purpose of a plan so before you have to do anything you have to plan your work so that you can work your plan right so this is the first step we take those through then the design standards we take those through the the overall criteria manuals and codes and move us to the next level but I want to remind everyone that in order for us to get this mobility plan adopted and moved to the next phase that really that next step is that roadway impact fee document and so I know I've mentioned that now now to you a couple of times it's very important that we work through getting that document completed so with that I want to close by saying you know the key focus of the mobility plan really I will tell you there has been a ton of work that's been done based on the comments that received and Nathan deserves the lion's share of the credit for working to make this a multimodal plan you know we've really been looking at everyone focuses in on that thoroughfare plan we've taken that time to say you know what we need to look at it from a bicycle in an auto and pedestrian we want it to be that three-legged plan we know that safety is critical and it's very important that's the purpose of describing the access versus the mobility because the further you get out on that x-curve I mean x-axis and the further you get on the curve and you get to those freeways and those primary arterials the higher the speeds going to be so we wanted to make sure we explain that and we understand the context-sensitive designs and those designs come into play when you take that from a line on a map to making it really into that overall project taking it through that design phase looking at those standard details looking at those criterias that are set in the transportation criteria manual and moving it simply from a schematic level version into a physical design and with that I will close and there are multiple of us that are happy to answer questions and I appreciate you allowing us the time to go through as many of the comments that we received and we will stand for questions excellent counselor Davis thank you mayor I really appreciate your comments about the holistic approach and I'm glad that y'all are kind of tongue-in-cheek about it around the office but it really is the only way to look at these things and I also really appreciate the commitment to multimodal transportation that it's very easy to say hey we're in Texas we all drive our cars and our big trucks and whatever but if we don't have a city that's conducive to other forms of transportation well then of course we're just going to drive our cars it's the only way to get around and feel safe I do want to I don't want to be a broken record but I want to go back to a couple things we talked about the last work session and some of what y'all have done to to address that and help us better understand the first one is travel speeds and I very much appreciate the changes that have been made and even if it's not hierarchical letting people know that our number one priority is safety as it should be once you get into former goal seven now goal one the the wording that's used is manage for safe speeds and continually and I'm a layperson none of us up here are engineers we appreciate how frustrating it is to hear seven lay engineers tell you you know what what we think ought to happen but everything we have comes directly from citizen input and the number one thing we hear about is lower speeds and then when I read the safety studies you know with my layperson's understanding the thing I hear about and read about is lowering speeds and you know I think I made a tongue-in-cheek reference last time to engineering textbook you know what the lowest reasonable speed is for a particular type of facility but is there not a stronger way to word this that we are designing for the minimum reasonable speed that we want I understand we're trying to flow cars I get it that we want people to be able to move through the city and get where they're going but we also have to I mean just about every driver out there needs to slow down about five miles per hour or more is there not a better way to a more strong way to word that that in every aspect of our mobility plan unless you're on a tech stop facility we are dialing you back as far as we reasonably can because that's our priority in Denton no I appreciate that comment I do think that as we update that goal number one to goal number seven we are going to look at that overall language and really work through and are there more proactive words that can be used versus reactive words if that makes sense I would also mention that our staff is very interested in Nathan's leading the charge on this getting the information in from the overall citywide speed study because that's going to also help with a lot of the information and I will tell you too that as you look at the roadway and the and the reason why I brought up the criteria manual the design standards etc is you know it's the the ultimate goal is to show a classification of a roadway that's anticipated based on capacity in the traffic impact analysis that are performed but at the end of the day it's really evaluating looking at that criteria manual and looking at those safe travel speeds where traffic impact analysis are performed so I appreciate the comment I do believe that we can work to address the concerns that you're receiving and that you have yourself I understand by making very much more of a proactive voice but I will tell you that towards the end of summer is when we're going to have that that information back from the citywide speed study and I know we'll get much more in-depth in that conversation which will then give us the opportunity because you know the criteria manuals updated every year to really work through to see if there's some modifications that need to be made to the criteria manual to help address some of those concerns excellent I appreciate that response very much the the second thing I want to talk about you probably anticipated is Northeast Denton and I really appreciate the the information about kind of how we land on some of these classifications and I also appreciate you pointing out these are lines on the map subject to change subject to kind of refinement as we go through but we still if we if we go forward with the primary arterials and secondary arterials that are in Northeast and Hartley field and then extended Cooper Creek we have two plans that are in direct conflict and now if you tell us that this is the I guess the super 428 or whatever it's going to be that tech stop will do out to the north kind of a separate issue but if we're going to have a future land use map that tells citizens and the development community that we expect one acre lots in this area we expect rural or agricultural use in this area but then we're also telling the development community in another breath but we're going to charge you to build a primary arterial out here if you build a subdivision or you're gonna have to pay for a secondary arterial and we want you to build these one acre lots but we also want you to pay for building a subdivision that looks more like you know quarter acre lots are smaller because the size of roads we're going to have you build I don't think we're necessarily being fair to the citizens or to the development community and telling them kind of two two different things and so that's why I'm concerned about the classification of those roads not to mention I just think Cooper Creek's a particularly expensive alignment to take that primary arterial that's a very expensive project to me but I'll use the example that you used just north of Cindy Road and Hampton Road with the under under the train tracks across the train tracks on the west end of town you gave a really good example of how we have a secondary arterial on the plan it's just a line on a map a - secondary arterial and it goes through the middle of a property and when we get down to refining it we may need to change that alignment and I get that we may even need to change the classification when we get to it but at the same time that line on the maps there for a reason because if you move it down to Hampton Road then now you're connecting that now secondary arterial to Cindy that we took off as a collector because it's a neighborhood and we don't want big trucks going straight up from Western Boulevard to the nice new distribution center or storage facility it looks like they're building north of Hampton Road so the lines on a map have a reason at the same time even though there are just lines on a map and if we give the community these red lines on a map then we can't really expect that we're going to get anything except for somebody who wants to build a million homes at Hartley Field or or something like that I hope I'm making sense even with your presentation I still feel like we're going in the wrong direction with the classifications in Northeast Denton okay no I appreciate that comment and I do believe some of the opportunities to review you know specific classifications in those areas will come during those area plans as modifications can be made to them the mobility plan I do mention also that a few of those roads are text out roadways but happy to evaluate and and see if there's anything additional that we feel like maybe we've missed the mark on based on your comments so I appreciate that thank you okay Councilman Burke good morning everyone good to see everybody I just have a couple of three or four things maybe here real quick and the number one thing is please explain to the audience why streets come last in the scheme of things particularly mentioning highway 380 for some reason I know the reason why but this is for anyone out there that contacts me and it's frustrated by this lack of streets being taken care of particularly before there are any homes or retail or anything that's moving forward why is it the streets seem to come last in the grand scheme of things that's a very interesting question I'm not sure that I have the ability to describe why they come last I think they're they're planned I think that there are projects that the city does the best that they can based on the land use assumptions and the developments that come through to anticipate capital planned projects but of course there has to be you know bond sales or funding associated with those I would tell you for example like 380 you know city of Denton is very interesting that we have six major roadways that go through the city of Denton that are all actually tax dot roadways and we get a lot of questions about 380 377 FM 428 FM 1173 where it hits 35 I could continue to name 2181 2499 those are all tax dot roadways and so text on is really working to improve those roadways and you know of course I can't speak on their behalf but we have a great working relationship with them so I would mention that as they continue to try to develop or see developments that come through they're going to continue to work to increase the capacity on those roadways based on the need and so many of the roadways that you see currently being improved or constructed or a lot of those are specifically tax dot roadways and I asked that question because in our last meeting we were talking about you know what new housing coming up and particularly out on the west side of town as we know that we're growing west sure in one of the things that was mentioned was that the retail is not going to be there until the housing is there until sure there's more development there so I would just wanted to make sure that a lot of times that those roads don't show up until that there is you know people there to be able to accommodate that I appreciate your answer absolutely and that was where the folks already kind of knew that idea I understood that reduce speeds he was talking about reduce speeds now we're inner city streets we know how how that can happen we can have a conversation we can study the speed area in now right now as I'm speaking in my head I'm thinking about Dallas Drive and I'm also thinking about Moore Street of course this is in my district and this this situation this conversation always comes up and it's been coming up since before I was elected but so as I'm speaking just keep that in mind okay so my question is how does that happen can we give a layman's term on for folks that are watching how does that happen how do I get a complaint that the roads are too fast I push it forward to the traffic mobility committee folks tell me what is this what are the steps to make sure or start delivering information to our community as how a road can slow down how does a road come go from fast how does Dallas Drive go from 45 to 35 coming off of a highway sure so keep in mind Dallas Drive is a textile roadway understand so you know what typically happens is as a request comment comes in city staff will evaluate that we will see if we have any traffic studies that have been recently performed if not we can elect to have a traffic study performed of that area based on that information then we go through a stepped process working in coordination with our transportation planning team our police department and our traffic operations team to look if there's additional steps that can be made that is if they are over the 15th percentile so basically from there we would move through the process of working with PD to put out some driver feedback trailers as they're called and and notify residents you know we see that there are traffic patterns here that are generating speeds 15% of the drivers are driving over the 30 mile per hour if that's the posted speed limit I'm using Morse as the example yeah from there and if we continue to receive you know those types of concerns and complaints and those driver feedback because they're deployed for a couple of weeks at a time then we work through a series of steps are there things that we can do from an engineering perspective can we change the way that the road is currently operating roadway diet diets is something that comes into mind can we skinny up the roadway and make it two lanes can we change the way that folks are driving can we add you know a definite additional speed limit signs that maybe will explain information of hey remember this is 30 miles per hour through here so there's engineering things that can happen and then of course our police department can assist us with enforcement typical procedure is to let that work through the process make decisions whether or not there's something from a design perspective we can do to try to help slow down the roadway and then from there we would work back through if necessary having an additional speed study for example say we put up some additional speed limit signs we may want to go then and restudy to see if those speed limit signs help notify the folks hey you know or the PD enforcement perspective hey we've been you know having many concerns on here and then really just getting the word out to to the different community members that you know there are concerns from you know speeding priorities I think many times what we found in some of the most recent cases are it's a very small fraction of folks that are actually speeding and it may be maybe one or two cars that are causing the concern and so we have to be measured with the way that we approach that but there are definitely engineering opportunities to calm traffic and like I said that's through designing of roadways or different measures making the roadway more narrow etc okay okay good now you said something about 15 percentile what does that mean sure so the 85th percentile really is the measure that you so the 15th percentile when we do a traffic study we're looking at how many people are speeding so if the speed limit is 30 30 miles per hour we're looking at how many people are actually going over that 30 30 mile per hour posted speed limit so on the 15 percent say we get 15.8 that's telling us 15.8 percent of the folks are driving above the projected speed limit does that help explain it yes it does thank you um here's something about the City Council request yes ma'am and this is my experience sure and this is my road Moore Street Mille Street Curly Street Dallas Drive these are the roads that are I'm getting connected to because it's in my district sure and for the past several months it'll be May will be my anniversary sitting on this board I just don't seem it just doesn't seem as though I'm in being heard therefore the people that I represent that voted for me or not are being heard here's the question what is the priority of a person sitting in this chair or any chair as regards to its responsibility to speak for the people that have a particular issue where is my voice and how strong is my voice for the people that put me in this seat we know that they can go online and make their case we know they can go into engage didn't we know we can go to discuss didn't we know we can do blah blah blah but when they come to me as their representative and asked me to push an issue forward which all of us and you know have that opportunity to get those things into us what is it how how how how is my voice for the representative of the people prioritized here on this mobility plan because I keep searing the same thing coming to me for almost nearly a year and I just don't feel like I'm being I just don't think I don't have any feelings I just don't think that they that that what I'm seeing is effective for what they need so the city manager if you want to touch on that and then but before you do I'll give you time to collect your thoughts I think it's important Becky a way to answer that would be give us the guided tour of the quiet zones that were approved by the citizens we have money I campaigned on that in 2016 here we sit in 2021 so if you can just give a brief kind of overview of that project any project I mean you can pick Bonnie break the contractor went out of went bankrupt in that just give us a snapshot of kind of life on the other side of the plan and and how that's delayed and and and then that'll give the city manager time to speak to the more the how requests are had brought in from individual council members how that's processed through her own thank you sure no problem just a little bit of a you know insight to I'll use the example you did mayor of the the north south water main along brawny break you know there's a lot of projects going on in that particular area we're going to be discussing that at mobility committee next Wednesday but you know there was an existing waterline project that the city did a solicitation on received a contractor that contractor defaulted on the contract and so then you know there was a six to eight-month delay in getting that project completed because we had to go through an additional procurement process meanwhile we have a roadway that has pipe stacked up on it meanwhile we have DME with the substation being constructed meanwhile we have a roadway project that we're working to construct and want to get completed so you know many times there's things that are going on behind the scenes that we're working through that are contractual obligations we have with contractors that help us move forward I want you to know it's always our priority to get those capital projects out the door and I know we mentioned this to you before but our team to work just this calendar year with closing out and working through substantial completion on 24 capital projects we're managing about 90 I have a 670 million dollar budget currently with the projects that we have and so you know we're working as fast and quickly as we can to get those projects out the door and of course close out those 2012 and 2014 residential Street bond projects so there's a lot of competing efforts that are going on mayor yeah and I think one other example that I think and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I want I want to make sure it it's kind of dressed because I think it's important and it goes to the answer the road and I'm gonna forget the name of the road but panhandle runs into it it's the one right by razor ranch park that one panel they had to redo it at least three times I do believe because it wasn't meeting our our design requirement so to the layperson that road looks like it's taken forever but we're doing what we're supposed to be doing holding the uncountable making sure they pay for it so if you can give kind of again brief snapshot of that I think that then goes to that what we're seeing versus what's happening absolutely you know we have design standards and specifications I shared just some covers of the transportation specifically with you the city's work very hard to develop standard specifications that are used on all capital and development projects that's testing methods and and design standards that need to be used on every project that's the way those projects are bid and that's what the development community expects the project the mayor's mentioning and we actually had a concrete construction pour that three different times failed basically the procurement process of procuring and making sure that the concrete actually was to the standard of which the city of Denton was going to accept because at the end of the day you have to recall the development projects and the capital projects that my team and other teams are working on making sure that we get through the system ultimately are owned and become the city of Denton responsibility to operate and maintain so if we're giving them a substandard project or a substandard water line sewer line roadway drainage etc then ultimately the city on the tail end is going to have to take that opportunity to rehab or replace or reconstruct that in a much earlier time frame than originally anticipated with its useful life okay and miss city manager yeah I just was going to say councilmember bird are as you heard Becky say our staff works diligently to try to address this issues particularly questions related to roads recently we've received a lot of questions regarding the signage or speech studies if you know when you turn in requests to develop whether it's regarding more Street or any of the other streets it's sent through our combined email a CMO group which then immediately goes out to staff who then follow up with response now granted the responses may not always be what you want to hear which is the timing on when we plan any improvements or reconstruction and many of those times we have to talk about other things and it goes back to that word holistic if there's other work going to be happening in that area or we're going to be doing water wastewater drainage work sometimes the street work is delayed the reach construction is delayed but the other part of it is is now that we've moved up which was number 7 and number 1 which is the safety component I think you'll hear staff even focus more on those roads those streets that we need to look at from a safety perspective but I it isn't that we're not responding or that we're not hearing you we also look at priorities based on councils decision making how it's been where we were looking at the street or those streets before and then they have them in the queue whatever the case may be it just may not be in a at the same time that someone else wants it but there are a lot of factors that relate to that and and so the other question the other thing I would say to you is if there are specific questions that you have and that you'd like to discuss regarding those streets then I would recommend that we sit down with you the staff sit down and walk you through their each street what's planned what's not planned what may need to be on a bond program all of those things that may be a factor thank you I just want to clarify that I'm not speaking necessarily for myself personally I am speaking for the the the citizens that want to know you know why isn't my road we're so impatient you know as a society we just don't just want it to happen just you know right there I'm not being pressed or pressured to you know make something happen but I just want them to know that there is a process that is taking place here and in in as many times as you call me or connect with me and want to know why is it and they're not you know they're putting us on the back back burner and they're you know they're not thinking about us and but there is a process there there are things that have to happen before other things can happen so I appreciate both of you all interjecting mr. mayor I appreciate you interjecting your comments there and I appreciate you all really just simply saying you're not not being heard oh absolutely you are being heard you we are working through it and we got to get to it yes and I would mention also that you know many times speed is a perceived issue that's the reason why we collect the studies and have the data to support the concerns and because we want to make sure we're using facts and data to make sure that we're using the the practical reasons to solve from an engineering aspect and then we talk about the five ease of education engineering etc multiple times so just wanted to make sure that you know that that's also understood that you know many times folks may believe someone speeding but actually the data has to be collected to help us understand what's the best way to solve for that problem and also allow me to interject here with that same process is that when we were talking about individual neighborhoods and these neighborhoods have their own flavor and I'll just use the neighborhood over off of Dallas Drive just as an example Township to who stays connected with me all the time they that's a turning over neighborhood that is a retirement neighborhood those people have been over there since the 70s late 60s early 70s now they're starting to retire they're older and the perceived ness of that road being much faster than what it is they're slowing down and so they are thinking you know I don't know that the cars may be going faster they're they're they're perceptive ness of what's happening around them is what is concerning them so that whole just conversation has to be had from a layman's perspective I understand and I appreciate you all giving some just some simple terms that we can understand as to how things progress so we don't want to forget them but they just need to know that we are we do know that they're there absolutely thank you very much for your time no problem in counter back thank you mr. mayor so so I want to lead with a couple things that to get me into the points because I think they're illustrative and they're they're literally illustrative because I drew pictures and and the point is I I don't I don't think pretend meant the inflection point diagram to be this point but the point I'm trying to make is when you the s-curve is beautiful because it is the exactly at the inflection point where policy has the most impact because when you're at the top of the inflection point policy isn't going to change things it's a flat slope when you're at the bottom of the inflator at the bottom of the s-curve rather policy isn't going to shift much but right here we're trying to shift that inflection point to say these these policies have the most change on the ground if at this point exactly where you say we are and I don't mean to point fingers I'm just saying that it it goes to I think what councillor Davis was was getting at and and what I'm going to get to and I think indirectly what councillor bird was getting to which is this idea of now is the time to look at these policy changes and especially on and I'll get back to this the idea of the safety I think you saw last meeting and now this meeting on the mobility plan and you're sensing the speeds and you've addressed it so I don't want to go over too much but I really completely concur with this idea of if we need a language change to stick into our plans and in fact that does always seem to be the case when we're when we're kind of loose and aspirational about what we want to do there there's a there's a great deal of flexibility and and the more we're even if even if it's a 50,000 foot language the more we are precise about our goals we seem to do a better job of hitting those targets and metrics so I completely some support this idea of this minimum safe speed because I think what you're seeing in many of the councillors in terms of the mobility plan is for what how long is the modern highway era since the 50s there has been too much emphasis on flow and I think you're seeing a number of councillors with different goals different persuasions all dialing in on this idea that flow is not the be all and end all that we are seeing greater harms or more benefit to safety and and while the priorities were a flat hierarchy of concepts and that seven and one were interchangeable that's why you could trivially do that I think what you're seeing us say is is one needs to be plus one one needs to be foremost and in and you sort of alluded to that a little bit that you know safety was number one and I know that's not just a business platitude but I think we need to say we need to enact language that does address this idea that we want to make sure that these features are safer and by adjusting this exact s-curve right there at the inflection point I mean that's I mean I love that you use that example because I was able to pivot on exactly to make the point that we have the greatest policy impact exactly where you say we are so we need to have we need to make those policy changes now and then the other thing that I will say in terms of illustrating that I see in both the comp plan and the mobility plan is we're getting caught up in averages and means versus ranges and I don't mean to again go all mathematical but we are seeing the lines and then you rightfully say that you know oh this is this is sort of again aspirational we can go quarter of a mile either way to actually drop a road but we both know that these mobility plans become self-fulfilling prophecies and I don't think councillor Davis's use those words but he you know that was in the direction of his thought process or it seemed to me and and where you know we we built for a thing that's that's that's either doesn't match the characteristics on the ground or that is aspirational and then we make it happen by building the road that matches that rather than the other way around I and I understand that we're in a little bit of a catch-22 because if you big drop a big development in and you don't have the roads to support it then then you'll you'll have the kind of complaints that we see coming out of Deerfield in Kings Row area where their mobility plan doesn't match the characteristics on the ground and some of that isn't our fault because it's a little bit county land and we don't have complete control over that region but I think if you if you have these means and range kind of plots where you can say look the road is going to be here ish and we've got range ish and I know that it's going to be tight where we're crossing bridges and creeks and it's going to swell to you know lots of flexibility when we're in flat grasslands and we can build out but then you can you know it give it illustrates that okay there's gas wells that are going to tighten the ranges there's bridges there's creeks there's other things and I think this idea and I'm just this is for Tina too because I'm going to mention this exact same thing in the in the cop plan discussion is we're we're getting tied down by not seeing where we have overlapping uses not seeing like I don't think we can address this idea of you know the mobility plan is you know we have like to pick on Northeast Denton part of the reason it is so painful is is the creek and natural waterway and terrain infrastructure there and yet we also need those same ranges to address the environmental components of the cop plan to address the development components of the cop plan and I don't think we can we can understand all of these components in total without understanding how these different ranges of behaviors overact interact with each other and I know that potentially becomes a really challenging visual or or or you help y'all have the data so I'm not worried about the data but I know that becomes very challenging to put all the pieces together but what I'm seeing is that we're by focusing pump tape on the mobility plan in isolation and I know they're not in isolation so bear with me but in isolation of the capital improvement project plan and isolation the environmental plan and isolation of the development plan and isolation of these other plans even when we float these ideas past the other department heads and we say oh you know you know let's let's all get together and be on the same page I feel like okay we're focusing on our department's means and and I know it's it's it's been difficult for the public and the the city manager and in the dais here to come back and give you a comprehensive overview not overview that's the word I'm looking for well anyway super supervision and compared not supervision but but my brain is I've just lost this word but anyway the the point is that you know in terms of trying to do oversight that was the word I was looking for in terms of trying to do oversight it becomes challenging to us because we're we're getting these little micro vignettes of pictures and we're not seeing the full impact and so I think this is sort of my general comment for all both of these meetings is we're not seeing the range of development and materials and and I know this is a thing because I do this in my career and I happen to do it on proteins and biological molecules and things like that but you don't care it's you know a string of proteins is a string of roads a network of proteins is a network of roads it's the it's it's the same thing so I since I know the data can be organized in this fashion I think it would be helpful it's helpful to me in my career I know I know it would be helpful well even if it's maybe not helpful in your individual departments it's helpful for us for planning and oversight it's helpful for feedback and training and an oversight to the public and and I think I'm gonna now pivot slightly and say like the capital improvement map is a step in this direction where now part of the reason that I think maybe Council Byrd's citizens are not hearing and not seeing the feedback is is because they didn't know where to look they didn't know how to address that they didn't use they didn't need this they didn't weren't able to get to the order of events and the kinds of projects and I love the capital proof I allowed that it's just awesome and all the various mapping tools the feedback and mobility mapping tools these these are providing this sort of feedback and outreach that informs the public so they say oh I really need this thing but I realized that there's four things in front of it and it's gonna be nine months from now or a year from now before we have the financing and the project coordination to get in front of that but people will accept that if they know that it's coming in nine months or a year I think where they get sort of confused and they grouse at council is you know they don't they don't know they don't know it's just never my road never gets done you know that kind of thing and and and even if they don't able to use the tools this body can use those tools to to respond so I think we're to end out to go back to this idea of the the the sort of self-fulfilling prophecy I think we need to get to this I think when we're running into especially in Northeast Denton is these ideas that you know I see like you know you know when we have these maps and for the first time I've seen them in a long time where the like the the the bike heavy pattern use assessment is giving us gaps where you can see oh there's heavy use heavy use but there's a gap on this road why well because that stretch of Bell say for example is not really conducive to pedestrian access and if we made it then that would suddenly just drain North Denton in terms of pedestrian and bicycle and I know Nathan is on top of things like that but I think when when we have these sort of layered and ranges we can make these assessments and I don't think we can really make these mobility plans in in absence of those partly because like let me see if I can get my notes back up my screensaver kicked in the so for instance like on the what are the hills of Denton and and to a lesser extent well no and even a substantial extent hunter coal when we treat them just as a as MPC in development and we're trying to say well we're how should we get the roads to those we're thinking of the mobility plan and and we're trying to do the oversight and and and the feedback and yet we don't see the natural waterways we are just seeing the layout of the map in terms of like parcel development so and similarly I think we you can't have one element the mobility plan is is too much isolated from the cop plan is too much isolated from the environmental plan I know it's messy and ugly but maybe the approach to take is if you can't superimpose them because it's just too busy put them all on the same page or or provide a GIS link where they're they're turnable on and off and we can check the dip differences and and I think you can see these I the problem that I'm running into is we're we're like say on where the creeks are for the environmental we know that on the mobility plan you're going to narrow in on the bridges there but that and that's going to curtail the development so I don't we're ridiculously chicken and egg here and and and and I don't know that you know just punching and saying well this is aspirational within a quarter mile is going to allow us to look at these things and I and I and I guess what I'm saying is in order to assess the efficacy and viability of this mobility plan and then later the this morning in the cop plan it's not clear to me that we can do that because we're lacking we have insufficient data to say yeah we're really on board with that so yeah it may be an update but it's it's I think and especially you can we I want to be clear like on these text dot roads and those are those are not the city's fault but those end up being the city's responsibility because we have to design our infrastructure around the fact that we don't control Austin so and and I think those those it becomes really important to sort of illustrate to the public what we can and cannot do and how we can respond by changing the speeds and flow and traffic in surrounding regions to compensate for ways that support our citizens and and but the problem is putting all those in yeah it's gonna it's gonna it's it's it's we need additional time to review if you're if we put those in and I'm not sure I have sufficient data to fully evaluate either the the mobility plan or the cop plan without some of those elements so I know that was a long long TED talk I apologize for that but but it goes to the point of like I'm trying to grapple and provide oversight and I'm not sure that I can okay and yeah that's that I mean we we we have another 30-minute budgeted for this because we have to eat lunch then get to the other two hour and again use your time as you use your time I'm just giving you the time stamps I didn't councilmember Beck if there's you may need to follow up with staff and give direction you know they're here to answer questions while they're in the room I didn't hear one to respond to understand your your your understand the general direction but I didn't see anything for staff to respond to with any level of specificity and then I would need to to kind of parse out from my seat to if I'm gonna you know give comments or feedback on what you provide one of the things you touched on was a layered map and that sounds like an individual perfect individual request versus does the majority of the citizens of Denton want to see that map or is that a personal preference so I'd have to parse through that and understand does the average person that's going to utilize this tool want to see that level of detail and is that going to get them lost and what we meet every week and so again you know I just didn't see anything from the respond to and if you if you using councilmember Davis's example he said hey this language in the speeding component needs to change potentially that's something for staff to respond to and look into so that's just those are my notes my thoughts and then also just the timestamp again we have another session after this and to stay on time we really need to maximize staff's time whether here on direct questions and answers and but again use your time as you use the time and and we'll adjust accordingly 30 seconds yes thank you sir so I will I will say I would like I would like to map the sort of ranges and I support counselor Davis's minimum wording standard in terms of direction and I hope other people would support maps and ranges as well okay mayor pretty melter yeah thank you mayor what I'm hearing first of all I want to get myself one of those bracelets says holistic with a heart and and I think part of what you're hearing really kind of through all the comments is that we want to understand at a greater level of detail certain areas that in in terms of mobility and comp plan kind of you know I know all together I know that and saying to have it in a map is sort of one way to say that I think that's the conversation that's being asked you know we're if we're sort of being told it's all high level you know it ends up feeling and we can only get into detail if you have a specific question when you've got months and months of looking at this in detail kind of on the staff side you know so there's a whole very different level of information that we have so for good dialogue and and efficient if maybe we can not in the next 20 minutes but if we can in this process dig into some areas that council members are saying they really want to understand in greater detail in terms of what and it's not like what has happened yard by yard it's what has changed how have these plans been knit together what is the recommendation I don't think that's asking too much and the areas that seem to come up a lot there's well just tracking what we've heard today the sort of street improvement prospects in southeast northeast in terms of are we really aligning on our signals to the development community about you know what the future intention is there and southwest you know yeah I think those are the ones I've heard from so far so I would just say if we can you know even take not today half an hour forty five minutes you know on each of those areas to understand what has changed how these you know you've taken rightly an extra six months to knit all these plans together so what were the decisions that were taken just so we you know we don't want to I don't think you want us to feel like we would bought a pig in a poke you know we want this dialogue right that's what we're doing this today so that's that's my proposal that we that we folk have it's not we're not going to completely do those small area plan although it wouldn't hurt to incorporate in this planning stage maybe an aspirational calendar of what small area plans we will get to by when but let's at least have a you know a significant degree deeper understanding of each of those thorny areas anyone else council marmott are let's see just very briefly I want to strongly second the direction given by councilmember Davis that we really get the language about slower speeds on non-text dot primary arterials and other roads city-owned roads in there at this level in this plan and also to second the direction just given by mayor pro tem Meltzer and councilmember Beck on either you know anywhere from on something along the lines of maps with ranges are something to that effect to get it kind of more of a micro level because that is because the people you know want to know that and that really helps to guide the plan at at the level of mobility policy even at this high level the one the only thing I want to add to that is just to kind of going back to the part of the presentation about primary alter the primary roads and you know why we need those roads and why why why any kind of mobility system needs those roads I just want to add that I don't I didn't hear and I might be wrong I might only be speaking for myself but that no I didn't I don't remember hearing anyone on council saying no more you know primary roads that what what I was hearing was just a concern about primary roads based on speeds and you know not just the speed limit set but the fact that people tend to just also go faster because of how wide they are so I just just wanted to mention that just as a point of reassurance again I might just be speaking for myself but I do understand you know that a fully functional road network needs some sort of primary roads but you know the question is kind of where to where should they be and then what we do with them and how to make them safer. Okay Councilmember McGuire. Thank you um yeah I kind of wanted to address that that same issue and you know this is the highest level mobility policy document that we have so I'm gonna address it in in a very high level way both because it is a high level document and because I lack the expertise to address a lot of these issues in in detail so I think that what staff is hearing from council and from our constituents is that the community really does want to prioritize safety and accessibility particularly for pedestrians and cyclists over mobility. I think we recognize that there there is a trade-off that has to happen between accessibility and mobility and we want to de-emphasize mobility in the interest of safety and accessibility and our constituents are concerned that things like six lane primary arterials that have a 45 mile per hour speed limit are you know not conducive to those those goals of safety and accessibility for people who aren't using cars. You know I think we all recognize that we can't just flip a switch and undo 50-60 years of suburban urban development and and this hierarchical roadway design you know that's that's what's on the ground in much of the city though not all of the city but I think that what you're hearing from the community is that they want you know certain elements of that old uniform grid style urban design to be you know implemented or integrated with the need to you know design around tech stop roadways that we have no you know control over and things like that. So I mean you know I'm not saying that we should throw out suburban hierarchical roadway design but but is it maybe there is some some some compromise that can be found between the two but you know I mean that the mobility plan that we're presented with today is one that falls completely in the camp of suburban hierarchical late 20th century urban design and it doesn't incorporate those those elements of accessibility and safety that our constituents have asked for and I mean this is obviously this is a huge huge huge ship to turn right I mean the the differing philosophy on mobility that that you're hearing expressed here isn't something that we can just implement tomorrow right I mean this is something that would take decades literal decades to implement but that's that's why we have the mobility plan. So I mean that as far as how do we translate these these concerns about wanting more access and more safety perhaps at the expense of mobility how do we translate those into design standards how do we translate that into an actual map that part I don't have the answers for because I'm not an engineer but I I just want to express that I don't feel like what we've been presented with is is an adequate answer to those concerns mayor yes if you'll allow me I think there's several points here I I think we're hearing about the safety issues and speed and that's certainly something that we're taking into consideration but I do want to say the mobility plan and the comp plan all the other plans are tied together you may not see that you may not believe that but they are the reason we're bringing them today is because we are coordinating those efforts here's where I think we make the most good and that is your small area plans when you get to the comprehensive plan and you start to look at small area plans then you can look at those issues related to what councilmember McGuire saying about the safety about the connectivity about the sidewalks and all those kinds of things because when you start taking into those into effect the small area plans you're looking at that once again the word holistically and you're looking at how do you want it to look what is the facade you want it to have how do you want your streets to look how do you want them to be connected how do you want accessibility all of those things can be addressed through that and it's really looking at it from not only a comprehensive plan but the mobility aspect of it I truly think this is my opinion you could like it or not but I think we're getting too far down in the weeds and I think you've got to let staff present what they're presenting then go into the comprehensive plan and then look at things all the way around which is how you get to places safe routes to school all of those things then it brings in that mobility concept and and so I just that's that's why we brought those two together but then you add in the parks component which is your wildlife corridors your yes Isis all of those things are looked at when you're looking at those plans that brings it all home thank you mayor thank you yeah so I think if where we go from here my read is I mean you can you can look at the comments and then come back with what you're comfortable with and then people can either vote yes or no obviously if we have to scrap the whole thing and redo it I mean you said we do it every year it's actually done every five years opportunity to do it sooner than five years but it is every five years yes sir yeah and we had citizen input and is that what we kind of in that yes so I mean I think if we're gonna if this council decides to vote no and ends up redoing everything then we'll redo everything and get re-empaneled of citizens and go through all that you know but I think there's only so much you can do I trust your expertise and and bring back the best you can and and just for my comments I think really what I hear is Councilmember Davis's point Councilmember Beck's point about speed maybe it's just a bullet in there a note there but here's where I process that through we can't there's only so much human behavior you can control and I'm assuming there's only so much you can get people congested where that becomes a safety issue as well the other way and then there's only so much the state allows us to do without being outside of their regulations and then triggering lawsuits and losing our protections there if something if accidents happen on the roadway so there's a lot of balancing there behind the scenes that you obviously know that you do so my insight is give us back kind of what you think I think there's ways to capture notes in there that speak to some of those concerns but not change the plan to where it's counter intuitive to what we know is from professional standards and then also I don't I don't my comment is I don't know how to hammer home the fact that drivers are drivers right and there's there's no way you're going to control if a driver is willing to do 50 in a 20 mile per hour zone and apart you can narrow the road you can do everything you want but if they're not in their right mind or making bad decisions we're you know we get the police involved we do those things but you know there's only so much we can control an individual driver and I think we you know take all those requisite steps but I think at some point you know that's just a bad person in our society but I think there's also some forward-looking things we can do and so I really look forward to the small area plan I think maybe just you've touched on it today but maybe a phased graphic this again that says here's where we are you know if the comp plan here's what the small area plan addresses here's what the individual plans and also I think it's important to note maybe some of those friction points right because we're not going to build a road inside of development and developers and cost and just kind of how that's negotiated or because I don't know but just maybe that's a snapshot into that not details because that's just not but it would kind of give maybe some context to your guidance and then we'll just see where it goes either people support it or they won't but I want you to be comfortable with it from a professional standpoint and from a subject matter expert and then we'll see where it goes and if we have to send it back out then you'll just come back with a timetable for how long that'll take and and cost and we'll make another decision you know but I'm not going to ask staff or the city manager to go against what they know to be the best practices but obviously incorporating changes where you can at the same time so that's my thoughts it's 118 so we have another meeting Monday I guess on this and so again I encourage those that have follow-up questions or want to see things before Mondays meeting take advantage of that time schedule some time with staff to have those conversations in advance so that they can be prepared Monday to hopefully finalize and then we'll vote the following week I think is that the 15th is it I don't know it all right I'm sorry I'm not looking at it doesn't matter it's coming so we'll tackle that so it is mayor for two yeah thank you mayor just before we close I would like to get a sense of whether council supports and whether staff is supportive of this of the idea of just letting us get a an understanding of all that good thought that's the holistic everything looked at together thought by looking at at least a couple of areas that people keep probing so take you take it a level deeper to understand a couple of the areas within town looking at it holistically mobility parks comp plan so that's my question just council support asking staff to do that does staff not want to do that I think could be you know because I don't think we're at a yay or nay you know kind of standoff point at all I think people are saying we want to understand this thing you were saying that sounds good well David let me respond in I'll turn I think really the key is staff mentioned safety 38 times during their presentation I didn't count literally but then the from the dais it's we're not sure if you're focused on safety enough right so I think at some point you're gonna have and to your exact point you talk about the small area plan components and you're saying do that early and that phase that you come yet and so I think there's just at some point there's a fundamental disagreement with the process and what is supposed to be done at this level and that won't be resolved in the time we have at the dais and then individual council members can at any time obviously and citizens and public can come in schedule time and sit down and drill down as far as you want get as comfortable as you want and even ask those small area plans that that's not forbidden that's just saying I don't know if that's the best use of time here if we're gonna if we're gonna mandate a rewrite then we need to look at budget items we need to repanel the citizens and kick it back out and do it all over again and not do it patchwork David just from a staff perspective as far as kind of hey we want to have these two or three areas and really zone in and show what's in each of the maps and have the layering and have we have no problem having that conversation if that's how council wants to use those time you know obviously we have those slots we have multiple meetings moving forward if council says here's areas we want to really dig into and see what's in the maps we have no problem doing that I think you're gonna hear some of the same things of kind of the purpose of the plans and what they are and how the context of them to subsequent plans but we have certainly no issue doing that and I do want to emphasize you know as I think a really good policy conversation that we've had is talking about the language in that in number seven and coming back with different language where we hear you we that's a that's a perfect policy conversation we'll come back with updated language for you to to respond to based on based on your discussion so just want to hit those two points we have no problem if council has the desire to dig into some areas we can do that next week and then we'll come back with some updated language as well I just I would need to see the what is your plan for that because that if you're if you're say if you're committing to that then that's Monday we're gonna have that conversation what's the time and then review that information and get us to the date to where we're supposed to vote right I mean it's like how how how do you see a path forward well you know what I think what we've tried to do with the timeline throughout to say here's a timeline if we hit every everything kind of as in a best-case scenario right if things get dragged on and we have more conversation to get through from a policy level it's going to change the timeline and we're just going to be transparent with council and what that timeline looks like okay well I mean again you're volunteering and and so if you'll take a look at that email that back out and and we'll take a look at what you which you're proposing and we'll go from there but okay thanks 123 item that's item a thank you we'll take before we go to item B we'll grab lunch so it's 123 let's be back at the dais at 2 to start the no well no it's not one point I'm looking at the timing it's 1150 we'll be back at 1210 12 let's say 1215 we'll be back welcome back to this meeting of didn't say council it is 1219 and we're back for our last item which is item B which is ID two one two six five four receive report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the didn't 2040 comprehensive plan update we have our presentation and pulled up so this afternoon presentation with our consultant team joined with me this afternoon is Ed Boyk and Celeste Warner there with matrix design group so this will be a joint presentation between primarily Ed and myself so Ed's actually going to be running the slides so so that we're not having a back bounce back and forth between sharing screens and what have you but happy to be here this afternoon so we're having this continued conversation of the conference of plan and we've already had some great discussion earlier today with respect to the mobility plan and we've tiptoed into the comp plan as part of some of those conversations but as we shared with you excuse me and Ed next slide please so as we have discussed back on January 25th with this comprehensive plan update that we're doing that this is truly an update it is an update to our goals visioned our policy statements and our action items to determine whether they're relevant with our conditions today when this project was originally scoped and funding was approved for this project it was truly based on an update of the existing conditions and the policies goals and action items in our vision associated with it it was not designed to be a rewrite we did not fund this project to be a complete conference of plan rewrite we did not also establish a time frame associated with that and that was not the direction that was received at that time when we embarked on this path so when we continue to say it's an update again it's a light touch it's looking at our vision statement to see does it still hold true does it still provide the appropriate framework as we move through on on discussing our goals policies and objectives associated with that as we've talked about in the past that vision provides for a framework associated with this next slide please so we have already received an extensive amount of feedback both from this body as well as from the planning and zoning Commission and we've also received feedback from the community based upon the feedback that we have received from all three of those entities is how we have crafted our presentation today for counsel's consideration and so that we can get direction from you if there's one thing that has come to light based upon all the comments that we have received and I know Ron included in your in your backup materials there is a matrix or a spreadsheet if you will that has a summary of I believe over a hundred comments that we have received related to this effort we created that spreadsheet had the ability to sort either by person that we received it or by common themes that appear one of the consistent common themes that keeps rising to the top associated with this is how do we manage the growth and what does that look like for Dutton I can assure you and I know Becky said this numerous times in her presentation this has been in a significantly coordinated effort with Becky's team on the mobility plan as well as even Gary packing in his team with the parks master plan update it may not seem like it sometimes maybe from where you're all for where y'all are sitting but I can assure you we've had multiple conversations and numerous conversations that we even delayed the consideration the mobility plan to make sure it was syncing up with the conference of plan Northeast Denton and we can talk more later about Northeast Denton when we talk about the future land use map but I know you know we had extensive amount of conversation about what is the land use patterns that are happening in that area what is the development that's happening out in the ETJ how do we address that on the mobility plan knowing that we have limited authority in the ETJ we also have significant floodplain that's coming through that area so you know we're having those conversations internally so that we as professionals are able to make our best professional recommendation to you as a city council so that you can make the most informed decision associated with that so when when Becky and I stand up here and say it is truly a coordinated effort we have been we've been having that extensive conversation internally so a couple of things before I get further into this presentation so what we would like to establish is we have several topics as you can see on the screen that we've got to get through this afternoon originally we were anticipating that we have about an hour and a half associated with that so that means roughly we've got 20 minutes per item on the discussion and so our my challenge to you and my ground rules request of the council will be is that first of all we need clear concise direction and yes I'm looking at you so I need clear concise direction in order for us to be able to make some determinations as to if there's any changes we're going to need to make to the document the reason beta is that we are trying to achieve an adoption schedule of March 1st why are we trying to pursue March 1st is because we have southern several other additional things that we need to get into one is and we've had lots of this discussion already is the area plans we really see the benefit in it where this council will benefit most given the deep dives and analysis and questions and comments that we receive is that you're you're going to want to be in that nitty-gritty when we get into the implementation aspect if we keep debating the comprehensive plan then we're preventing ourselves and being able to get into that nitty-gritty and do the implementation work the other thing is we have other tasks that are scheduled for example our roadway impact fee ordinance we need to start working on that but we will not be able to start working on that development will continue to happen but we will not be able to get to that point because we have not achieved getting our mobility plan and our comprehensive plan adopted it if we don't keep this moving forward so again point one be clear concise in the direction that we receive number two is we need concurrence from you or at least a simple majority so we can figure out where we're lying on some issues so that if we have to make any changes we can bring that back and and get that incorporated in the final document before we bring it forth for adoption the third thing I would ask is like I said we've got roughly seven eight topics we've got to cover so that translates to about 20 minutes per discussion on item now we can take longer than 20 minutes on a particular item but that means we're gonna have to take less time away from the other or if we find that we just can't get any consensus or at least that simple majority that I spoke to spoke to then we can park the conversation and we can come back on Monday February 14th excuse me we can come back on Monday February 14th and resume the conversation then but again we would be looking for getting concurrence on how we address that particular topic at that time the next one I would like to request is so on each of these topics and with our consultant team being remote we would request that allow us to get through presenting the appropriate slides on the individual topic then hit us with your questions and let's have the discussion we have included in the presentation at the end of each topic a slide that says discussion direction so if you can allow us to get through the handful of slides to tee up the discussion we would greatly appreciate and then lastly in don't cringe when you hear me say this because you've but you've heard me say this multiple times and we did in the mobility plan is remember that comprehensive plan is a policy level document and when we talk high level there's a reason why we're addressing that I know and I'm gonna not to pick on councilmember back but it dawned on me in the past discussion is he is a scientist when he was starting to talk about the proteins and what have you it dawned on me sometimes it's challenging for elected officials who have more of that scientists mind frame who are used to that finite granular level of detail analysis to be up here in the policy level I would ask that you trust the process that you trust the staff in the professional recommendations that we're putting forth before you in order for you all to be able to make the best possible decision because I know it's difficult from where you're sitting because you have all the constituents that you're trying to be responsive to as well so with that back to my slide so again that common theme that has resurrected is managing growth and and so what we want to do is we'll just have a quick overview on confirming that vision statement then I'm going to turn it over to Ed and Celeste and so one of the key things that came across in all of the comments in the past conversation we've had is how do we address future development in the ETJ given our limited regulatory authority I know councilmember Davis you had lots of questions regarding the municipal to utility districts so we're gonna have some recommendations as to how we address that particular topic there and how then that influences the shading on our future land use map that preferred pattern of lands preservation that continues to be a topic that comes up especially as it relates to our environmentally sensitive areas our creeks our waterways our upland habitats our tree canopies and what-have-you so so we've heard you in that and we've actually put together the the land preservation map that we're proposing to include in the conference of plan we will share that information with you and as part of that component of the present of the presentation so you can see how that is coming together and shaping some of our decisions then ed will take us into the future land use map again you've already been introduced to areas where we've made changes so we'll go back over those and if there's any further refined direction that needs to take place then happy to receive that then we get into implementation and what implementation looks like and Ed's gonna spend some time sharing with council particularly we've got 270 action items that are in the conference of plan that's where you all would love to be is in that implementation but if we can't get past the adoption on the comp plan we'll never get to the implementation and into those action items but he will speak to how those how those action items work together in including are those ongoing short-term mid-term long-term responsible parties associated with that and then also it includes in the plan how that circles back in and identifies how we're meeting those certain objectives or policies that we've put forth we've had lots of conversation already on the area plans we really believe our futures in the area plans because it will allow that deeper dive analysis that that this group is wanting to be able to get into we'll also touch on infill and redevelopment what that looks like what are our goals for that area and really how that can play into those action items and then lastly I'll wrap up with the next steps next slide please add so let's go on to the managing growth and the aspect associated with what is our vision for Denton so what we found through this process based upon the feedback we received from you but most importantly the community is that the vision that it was laid forth in the 2030 plan still holds true as we move forward with the 2040 plan in Denton we want to see managed balance and sustainable growth within our community we're wanting to have compact development and mixed use development as well as reinvestment and infill development occurring within our city obviously in the right places correct and so that's where at a high level this plan will help give us some of that direction associated with it we're interested in having an efficient transportation system and addressing the multiple transportation modes throughout the city this where it goes back to we've been coordinating with the mobility plan to make sure that what we've got stated in the comprehensive plan is not in conflict with what we're trying to achieve in the mobility plan I know there was much conversation about you were glad to see that we've included pedestrian bicycle in including those components the comprehensive plan already speaks to that coordination and has the an influence and effort associated with pedestrian and bicycle needs also how best do we address our major highway travel quarters and that's a great item related to our vision because I had this a planning zoning commission member in another community explained this one way and I thought it was a great analogy the major highways are truly the windows into our city it's what we see when we travel those roadways of what our city looks like in the type of development and expectations that we have within our community it also is a window for others to see not only as residents of Denton but others that drive through our community this as they traverse our community on on those major highways then it tell it portrayed portrays the perspective of what that particular community has its priorities the other thing is we talked about is having that well in well-planned infrastructure again that's part of our vision we want to have well-planned infrastructure whether it be roadways water wastewater storm drainage to be able to meet the needs of our our residents today but also for the future for when that occurs we're also interested in having parks greenway streams the tree canopy preservation areas all of that and representative of Denton included within the comprehensive plan so that is in there right now and that's part of that vision and how we'll continue to show and illustrate how how that connectivity and those objectives are being accomplished because again that's the framework and that's provided for in the vision and then lastly also we're interested in having environmental stewardship and sustainable development or growth within the community where appropriate and so all of this all of these bullet points that just summarize they provide the framework and so this is what is in the framework that we're proposing to carry forth based upon conversations and direction that we've had from you all but also the community so if we're in agreement with the the framework that is proposed here then that is shaping up the 35 goals that we have in the plan it's the shapes and provides the framework for the 123 policy statements but again I go back to that 270 action items that we have provided for in the in the proposed 2040 plan so again based upon your feedback that we've received not only from you the planning and zoning Commission in the community what we've heard from you as this still holds true for Denton so if there's something that's different please let us know but otherwise this is the framework that has influenced our discussion direction that we'll receive from you on the on the following slides next slide please so I'd like to turn it now over to Ed Boyk thank you thank you Tina mayor members of the council my name is Ed Boyk with matrix design group and as Tina had mentioned we also have Celeste Werner with us who's an executive vice president with matrix design group and she has a lot of good expert insight into some of the topics we're going to be talking about today just to be available in case there's some questions that need that additional detail but first I wanted to just kind of reiterate what Tina had said is that this everything that you see today is really characterized by that vision statement and the preservation the balance of growth utilizing infill redevelopment to fulfill that community vision and so I'm going to start first by I'm speaking some of the comments that we received from council and from the planning and zoning Commission regarding the ETJ and just for a little background on the ETJ it's it's the planning area that extends approximately a five mile radius around the incorporated area of Denton and it's composed of two different divisions those divisions are subject to an interlocal agreement and I'll see with Denton County and there's division one of the ETJ and division two as per that agreement division one gives this the city of Denton the rights to do subdivision review ETJ to the division to the city of Denton reserves no authority for review there by state law through Senate bill six was passed a several years ago it severely hampered the ability of cities to regulate growth within that ETJ however there were some tools that were still retained and available to the community such as subdivision review the ability to pursue public improvement districts development districts now look at water signs in utilities stream and watershed protection and also to be able to enter agreements with the developer particularly if a developer or landlord is looking for some material or financial support for their development from the city that gives the city an opportunity to collaboratively work with them so because of those situations it's still important for the city of Denton to define its land use policy in the ETJ and define it in a way that aligns with that community vision this will provide a position for influence for the community to move forward and encourage compatible development within the ETJ areas in those areas that are outside of the incorporated boundary that doesn't mean you're gonna have complete influence in all cases but it sets the table for what the community's vision is and helps to bring that forward to the development community so they can have that as a consideration as they move forward their plans so these proposed land uses that you'll see in the ETJ reflect the results of the outreach the engagement and the best practices that might be found in other cities such as San Antonio and Texas San Antonio for instance does allocate land use for the entirety of their easy ETJ and uses that as a tool to control development within that area and ensure that it's compatible and consistent with their goals so one of the items that was identified was that there are several municipal utility districts or MUDs that are located within the ETJ and in response to that comment and reflecting on the reality that many of these municipal utility districts are either approved through a state action or substantially through a review process or approval process or have been approved they should be reflected in their as-built condition or their soon-to-be-built condition and those are those four that have met some of those thresholds are identified on this map and you can see that they're identified now in the ETJ as a low-density residential land use and that's just to be consistent with what the agreements or development plans have been for those developments there are several other municipal utility districts that are located throughout the ETJ however most of those are conceptual and I'll show that on the next slide so on the left you'll see option one which is the revised land use plan future land use plan for the for the ETJ that shows the low density residential that's in the western side of Denton for those municipal utility districts and option two on the right and it goes a little bit further and actually identifies those potential municipal utility districts those that may be petitioning for state approval or maybe in a conceptual nature but they haven't moved formally through any process or initiated to become an application with a with a improved development right or an assumed approved development right so those are the two different ways that we could illustrate this information on the future land use map staff and matrix work together and agree that option one the option on the left is probably the more appropriate way to illustrate it on the land use plan since it keeps the document a bit more simple and focused on what the land uses are and can be into the future and it would also include a note to notify that there's a potential for additional municipal utility districts in the ETJ so what even though this land use policy that's illustrated here might show a lot of rural and agricultural land uses there is the potential that should some additional muds exercise their rights through state law to develop within the ETJ there could be changes that take place however the important thing to take away is that because the city of Denton would be asserting itself through a land use policy it does give a foundation for discussion and negotiation with those entities when they do move forward that helps to guide the development helps to ensure that there's some pieces that may not be direct regulation of what the community has in the regulations but elements of that or flavors of that that help to bring those developments more in alignment with the overall vision for the community this also kind of leads you to the point where what could be some possible next steps that could be taking place to handle those muds in the ETJ and that could be developing or enhancing an ETJ policy about development in general in the ETJ beyond the detail the big generalized detail that's available in the comprehensive plan or it could be re-examining some of the mud policies that are in place to see if there are additional elements or regulations that are afforded to the community through state statute that should be considered or incorporated as these muds come forward and look to the city for some support either financially or materially so with that I'm going to conclude this section of discussion on the ETJs and the muds and see if there's any questions comments that might be had and also like I said I do have Celeste Werner with me who's also available to answer questions should we need to go into that detail okay so direction on option one or option two for staff to then take note of councilmember Davis thank you mayor maybe not surprising I prefer option two and the reason I prefer option to two is because I think using the unshaded area but the borders the different color border I think is an elegant solution to say this is not what it's only progressed to a certain point of the process and we can't expect that every single one of those kind of fuchsia bordered areas is going to fill in with residential development but the smart money is that it will because that is the smart and economically feasible way to develop right now if you're a developer with lots of money and but it's still limited you go and you start a mud in the ETJ and about 10 years later you ask the city to annex you that's just the process that they go through so I think it's smart to include those and I think it's smart to do it in the way that we've done an option to which is you don't shade them in you don't say it's a fait accompli it's definitely there or they're under construction but we're indicating it because I think a perfect illustration would be the area between 156 and the railroad and Hunter coal ranch and the airport we can we can look at that area and the way that it is now and and wish and hope and dream that it stays green except for the and that we put parks through the floodways and all that kind of good stuff but we know that's actually a very highly developed area it has lots of houses out there already has lots of individual parcels people that are marketing their parcels and trying to sell them we know that area is going to develop I'd almost go so far as to say that we ought to just go ahead and shade that low residential because that is what it will likely be if the muds that are even in the beginning of the process go through so that leads to my question my preference is for option two because I think it shows accurately what we believe will happen there but also to my question is can we elaborate on this negotiation piece that we've talked about do we have a do we have a upper hand in negotiation or a better position in negotiation if we shade that as rural as opposed to shading it as a low residential or whatever we we think them the muds are going to do out there like what's the what's the purpose and shading it something that we actually don't expect so I'm gonna invite Celeste Warner to this conversation as well as given some our experience in our conversation we had yesterday so Celeste I'm gonna let you address Councilman Davis question please councilmember and mayor and other council members what what I would recommend where the benefit would be is we have to remember again and I know you hear this over and over again comprehensive plan 40,000 foot policy level you have the opportunity as you move forward your implementation when you get to those area development plans you come to a more finite finite level of detail that's when you bring in the stakeholders the development community citizens residents and you know and other other elected officials to to come to the table and and assist in defining at that level in the area development plans what what what that should be as far as land uses to guide specifically in those areas at the comprehensive plan in communities across Texas from San Antonio down to communities your size they stay very high level in regards to the ETJ and unless they really know exactly what they want in that specific area of their community that matches up with their vision so again you know you have that opportunity to get to that finite level you are correct you when you get to the area development plans and you have that opportunity to define a little bit more on the type of uses you would like to see there the type of connectivity the mobility that you were just talking about a little earlier in the work session and when we say mobility it's a comprehensive and not just you know obviously vehicular but also bike head you know multi-modal but also where do you want the preservation to occur where do you want to have that open space and where do you want to guide development so you don't have sprawl so that that would be I just would like to share that that's been very successful in the entire San Antonio region when the community with the cities negotiating with developers through development agreements within their teachers so they go from the comp plan and they go into more detail at the area development plan and then they focus in obviously that the legal or regulatory component with the development agreements that they're identifying that win-win for both the developers as well as the community and the public at large who you all represent still maintaining and that focus of the vision hopefully that helps it does help just a couple of things in response and that might help help future answers to the first is I absolutely understand this a high-level policy document from where I'm sitting though just like councilmember Beck is a scientist and he brings his perspective I'm a communicator this is a communication document it's about communicating the policy and if we communicate the wrong things either to our constituents who have a vested interest in certain aspects of the comp plan and we communicate the wrong things to the development community on the one hand we can communicate to our constituents that we have authority that doesn't exist and and they develop expectations based on that communication that they expect this nice green bubble around the city that we cannot provide the other thing that we can communicate to the development community is Denton's gonna stake out hard positions on things that can't back up and that does not in my view put us in a a favorable negotiation posture so what I kind of need I think and not not at this moment but maybe I'm missing a piece of this negotiation you're talking about and maybe it's a difference between us and San Antonio maybe it's a difference in their ETJ and that we don't exercise all the powers we have available in our ETJ but we also have had a lot of those powers as you mentioned curtailed by the legislature and we can we just they don't exist so if you help me fill in some pieces maybe offline or in a memo or something about how it is that San Antonio puts himself in a better negotiation posture for the ETJ growth and the muds because frankly in the conversations we've had about muds so far and especially the muds where we're not gonna get close to a to a CCN like there we just have our hands are tied the muds are coming and there's nothing we can do to stop them and if there's a way to do that or if there's something I'm missing please please make us aware thank you and we can bring that back in that additional information and I guess just to add to what Celeste is stated and I think this might help address your your question even right now is that where we potentially have a seat at the table with the development community is when they're coming to us asking for us for the financial handout I mean that's what it comes down to and so you're right our authority is limited in the ETJ so then it's how do we try to leverage the ETJ in the development that could happen there to be in the best interests of Denton and what we would like to see it so if they're looking for financial incentives from the city of Denton then that's when we have the position to say well you know if you're interested in receiving sort of financial handout from us then this is how we want our community to develop this is what we're envisioning if that includes a community visioning process and or stakeholder is part of that you know conversation that could even potentially occur at that point in time but at least that's where we get the leverage otherwise if they can completely finance their development on their own then they're not going to come to us and we won't have a seat at the table are you talking about developments that would seek annexation at the time of development or are you talking about muds so I'm talking about developments where they would be looking for financial incentives to be able to help them occur come to fruition because developers are typically looking at how can they minimize their output on particularly infrastructure costs and so their mindset is well we're bringing you this wonderful development this is going to be great housing additions to our community or this will help support your commercial development that you have here but in order for us to bring that to your community we need for you to help us finance the infrastructure and so that's when they're looking at having financial assistance from us they can as part of that conversation say you know and we may agree to annex at the end of this process and we conclude that in the development agreement as such but but even on on municipal utility districts if they were looking for some sort of financial means to be able to help facilitate the construction of infrastructure and and then also looking for consent from us then then that's where we might have the ability to be able to exercise a little more muscle than what we currently do with them just happening out in the ETJ and that's not being part of that conversation okay I don't want to dwell but maybe this will help kind of zero in on the memo or the the ISR I'm asking about you're talking about financial incentives I'm struggling to define in my mind a financial incentive for development in the ETJ that this council would be in favor of and and I'm struggling to especially if we are expressing a policy desire to reduce sprawl which we have very clearly done already in this conversation why we would other than you know giving permission for a municipal utility district or for one of the other financing mechanisms they can use but an incentive or maybe in the memo or something you can kind of better define what it is you think the city might be offering up in these negotiations because that's maybe the piece that I'm missing is I'm just I'm just not seeing how we get our hooks into them given the policy direction we've given so far which is to reduce the amount of development at all that's happening in those areas and that's the message that we're communicating to the development community right now is that with the council that we have is that they're not interested in having the development out in the ETJ so we're not interested in financing anything the other aspect I would add is that along with this it would require a comprehensive plan amendment so that whether it's this body or a future body can also take in consideration whether or not it's appropriate but but happy to bring that back in and explain that a little bit further in ISR thank you okay we're just over ten minutes into this discussion councilman Beck I'll be more succinct than I was this morning I had a blathering moment this morning so so my I think a lot of the framework you asked for direction I think a lot of the framework is is a valid and I think some of what you're sensing is and that we spoke about here in the hallway is sort of like how do we measure whether we're achieving that framework and so I think there's the issues of accountability alignment and oversight and and so I I concur with councillor Davis that we do we do no service to I think we do need to say we would rather have we need to tell developers we would rather have this kind of growth but we don't do our citizens ourselves any planning service if we do not denote that that kind of growth is not there so we need to know I think the future land use map needs to whether it's a pink boundary or you know some weird crosshatch of green and yellow for low residential or whatever I think you need to represent that we would prefer this region to have this and and it's a clear misalignment or potential pain future pain point where the muds are not exactly aligned with that but we need to know that for this dais and for the citizens as councillor Davis said so I I think I would my direction is for option two and so I think that the we need to replicate that sort of concept throughout and and and I'm sure you'll cover some of these other elements that I have related concerns of in a second thank you okay Katherine Burke I'm gonna do an educational thing and then I'm gonna give my recommendation what is a mud and how does a mud occur so a mud is a municipal utility district and it is it's not uncommon for it to be in the form of a let's say single-family residential district but it's created as part of an action by the state legislature so I'm not sure if you recall back in December I believe it was December we had a conversation with council about a municipal utility district the La La Ranch and was looking at wanting to do an expansion so one of the things that the you know the groups that are creating the municipal utility district as they look for consent from the city if they get consent from the city then they take their next steps with the Texas Commission on environmental quality quality and are able to move forward with being able to create that political subdivision if you will through that legislative action the city of Denton also has the ability to not grant consent associated with it I know here more recently we had on the agenda I believe it was the legends neighborhood and Matt correct me if I'm wrong but with respect to an agreement that it was negotiated that also addresses what services that we the city of Denton may provide within these municipal utility districts because you know they typically the way I understand them is that they their police service typically comes from the county but their fire service would presumably come from the nearest fire station so in in many instances depend upon where they're located that's probably gonna be from the city of Denton so we provide for an agreement in place that be able to address that beyond that the agreements that are put in place can address other components including the infrastructure if it's built to our standards versus county standards or whatever may be provided for but because they can be an entity of the state and can be created without the city of Denton's consent then that's why you know these municipal utility districts can occur out in the ETJ and choose to form in the manner that they do so hopefully that addressed your question yes it did because I was just recognizing that over here on slide number six I see that the muds that are listed are over you know going towards the west side of the city and so we're always talking about you know our growth it's going to be significant over to the west side of our city so I'm going to go ahead and go with the staff recommendation of option one I think that the city is you know more than capable of managing and monitoring what's happening in in terms of these muds that are happening to the west side and I think that it looks like we are taking that growth rather than going north immediately that we are just anticipating the west western development so if those things are already in place and if it's and if it's something that we can move towards faster I don't know if if this is since it's here are we talking about this us being able to get to this point quicker than northeast then I would definitely go with the city on that direction I'll just leave it there thank you and if I could add mayor heads but also one other key thing to understand about municipal utility districts is another reason why they choose to form is so that they do not have to comply with cities in our case the Denton Development Code so our zoning requirements so that means that they're not having to comply with our gas well provisions nor tree preservation provisions or any other components that we may have that would address more from our land use regulatory standpoint so that's why they try to formulate out in our ETJ is so because they're outside our city limits and they know we can't exercise land use control over them all right anyone else mayor potential meltzer we're at 16 minutes yeah just as you can get to consensus but it's kind of a fine point both are you know improvements and responsive and I lean to two because it's more information yes okay councilmember McGuire thank you my direction is also to go with option two I do not favor any type of additional shading like I think councilmember Meltzer or I'm sorry councilmember Davis suggested possibly shading those potential future muds as low residential I think that what y'all presented us with an option to where they remain shaded in green but outlined in pink is a really elegant solution to the problem of how do we communicate to the public because that's what this map is about is about commit communicating to the public that we don't know exactly what's going to happen but there is going to be some kind of development and we only have limited control over it so I go with option to anyone else okay you have your direction in good yes okay let's pull up the presentation proceed on to the next topic please and you'll need to share screen one more time okay should be ready to go okay next topic all right and then this is continuing on the theme of the the community vision for preservation and managed growth and this is the preferred land preservation plan discussion and this plan that you see currently illustrated right here is illustrating which land the lands that are lakes they could be floodways or flood zones environmentally sensitive lands such as habitat or parks that have been preserved or lands that have the potential to be preserved whether they're floodplain habitat water-related riparian whatever it might be so this plan was used to inform some of the decision-making with regards to land uses on the future land use plan which you can see on the next slide and you'll see that there's these two are overlaid there's a heck of a lot of information on this this is a very busy slide but in general those teal / blue areas that are overlaid into the future land use map are largely represented either as open space on the future land use map or as some of the lower density land use designations in the ETJ such as rural and agriculture there are components or pieces of this that do move through developed areas of the community or through areas that are you know designated with other land uses in those cases Denton has regulations in place currently through the development code and other development standards which kind of drill down they get into more specificities so then when it's time for development to occur on those individual parcels they are examined closely and those environmentally sensitive areas are preserved or retained or you know acquired by the city in some cases but in all cases not developed so that you can create this link or chain of environmental open spaces throughout the community that can be used for several different functions whether it's for wildlife corridors whether it's for preserving the floodways and flood management habitat or even recreation components such as trails like head sidewalks and connections like that between the different sidewalk different and open space that are natural and developed such as park spaces there was many questions that came out of our discussion at the previous work session related to this and you'll see on those next several slides that the ones that have a green arrow next to them are the ones that we're going to continue to move forward with to develop policies that may more clearly illustrate how that's going to be resolved in the comprehensive plan or inclusion of exhibits or maps to help explain how those are being answered in the comprehensive plan or through different actions that might follow the stuff that does not have a green arrow is stuff that's already handled through either development codes regulations standards subdivision regulations or comprehensive goals and policies that may already be in place to support those intentions such as wildlife quarters it's not currently mapped we're going to add a policy to the comprehensive plan and an action that works to identify and map those corridors as for protecting green space around major watersheds those like as I just described there are some regulations in place through various standards for development and zoning the connectivity of green space the same thing there there the parks and trails recreation master plan as well as the comprehensive plan and other mechanisms support those conclusions to do that as we move through this here's a list of different actions that are in the comprehensive plan today that meet many of these comments the goals the intents that were desired which was finding ways to create those regional links the local links aligning with the parks recreation trails master plan developing those green ways and then using them in a way that's useful for the community like I said before either through a pedestrian or bicycle linkages or just being a natural link to manage other aspects of city development that are important to the community and then you could find on this following the last slide several of these will be enhancements made to exhibits or materials to make sure that it's very clear what the lungs with the 2040 vision is for Denton in respect to these different aspects such as parks and trails being added to the preferred but wasn't that to the preferred land preservation plan highlighting those ESA is to make them more clearly identifiable you know indicating those parcels with greater than 30% canopy we're gonna add a policy and an action to help with that as well as identifying what those potential riparian areas might be as for parcels zoned as public facility or identifying what lands are already in ownership or some sort of governmental function that's handled through the future land use plan as a designation and that's appropriate for the level of the comprehensive plan just to say this is a city-owned parcel or a government-owned parcel and and those are identified like I said a proper appropriately on a comprehensive plan level through land use designation and then they're more specifically identified through the zoning map as well historic preservation parcels the plan is still supportive of historic preservation and while it may not go to the deep bubble of detail of identifying those areas which are historic preservation you know designated or potentially that is the responsibility of the drilled out that's the 2019 historic preservation plan which is a much more specific and detailed analysis of those resources that is is where that occurs so that this comprehensive plan again is that big high-level plan that sets the table sets a 30,000 foot view a generalized approach and provides the framework for these more detailed actions and activities to occur such as the historic preservation plan and the parks plan and the mobility plan and all the other plans that were mentioned earlier in a mobility discussion and with that I take any discussion or direction you might have okay and what do you so just feedback on the the use of the arrows and kind of help me define what you're looking for so that we can hit that okay and if you could please share the preservation land map so as Ed explained this is the map that we are proposing to include within the comprehensive plan document it would be included right after the future land use map exhibit that's included so that folks know that these two maps work in tan work in tandem with each other I know there's been a lot of concern regarding our environmental sensitive areas our upland habitats our waterways riparian areas and so we've taken the data that we have right now and we've mapped that to be able to illustrate and include this as an exhibit within the plan we're proposing to keep it separate from the future land use map because as Ed showed I believe it was on the next slide when the two maps are overlaid across each other it's just it is an extensive amount of information and so in running out of so many colors and shading and that can be achieved on the map so so if you are comfortable with this map we would include this in the comprehensive plan and then as Ed mentioned on the following slides that we have identified additional areas where they had the green areas arrows that we will add action items that are consistent with that and including that within the plan so I guess my question to you is did we go far enough are we addressing your concerns do you feel like we've missed something associated with that so hopefully that helps mayor that that does okay questions for staff oh and you have to pull the slide down so I can see those that are not here thank you question map or to Meltzer yeah thank you first I want to say this is really super responsive to the feedback and I'm just you know very very hard it's essential and the way you're talking about handling it as something as a sort of partner map it's meant to be looked at you know together with the future land use map I think it's just spot-on the green arrows are in the right places I would say the extent to which even with the historical areas if it can be not just in the words but in the pictures too you know I think it's very powerful I expect to see you know developers in future show it back to us to say here's our zeroing in on our part of both maps and here's why our proposal you know matches the city's goal so you know I would just say right on okay anyone else councilmember McGuire thank you I just wanted to echo that I'm I'm really impressed and how quickly y'all put this together after we discussed it at our last work session I agree with with your decision to keep this separate from the plume because it's it is really confusing to look at when they're overlaid and I definitely agree with the decision to keep historic preservation patterns as a separate thing historic preservation is also important to us but it but for different reasons then then what is expressed in this map so excellent work on this okay come for Davis thank you Mayor no I think this communicates what it needs to very well and I like that it builds upon things that are already in our city code ESA's and of course the FEMA map that we that we reference often but I like that it references those things because it doesn't it doesn't overstate the position it doesn't say you know developers we expect there to be no development in this area thereby incentive and sending them to go outside of the city process and go ahead and set up a mud and do their own thing before they're under the city code so I don't think it overplays our hand I think it communicates very well what our expectations would be were this ETJ area in the exist under the existing code and I think that's exactly the appropriate message to send so good work customer back thank you yeah I want to echo that I appreciate that the quick turnaround I know a lot of these were points that I'd ask for I do appreciate the in particular sort of the idea of potential preservation I think that was one of the critical pieces because we'd already seen maps before visas and ETJs and other things where we control the property and I guess that gets me to my my question two questions real quick and and I'd like to see us emphasize that so that's my my direction is to emphasize that potential and and and the aspects I'm not sure how we do that but I like I like that because it sets a tone in the same way in our discussion about what we want to see in the ETJ this is what we want to see in these these regions my second question is I completely agree and concur that you know we don't want it too busy all at once because it obfuscates the the entire point of this environmental map I do think there's an opportunity to have both if that's if if one page charge is not crazy for your PDF or your your publications I could see on one page this is the map here it is superimposed with the the cop plan of the flume that you saw three pages ago I think there's an opportunity to show how they align and I think similarly I won't so I won't reiterate for future items but I think there's similarly an opportunity to show those combined maps as we go through to show we're focused on this for this section but here's what it looks like in the comp plan you know we're in the net historical here's what it looks like in the comp plan and and I think that just helps people understand if we can do the the multiple maps I would I would like that but I I'll take it under advisement whether we can get away with that okay and to help address your concern about making sure that we're communicating the message especially you know Landos perspective developers I presume is probably your concern is one of the things we have you know Cody on our GIS team and he's great about getting various maps that we have so like right now we have our dentin 2030 future land use map that's on our GIS interactive map so if we're successful in getting our comprehensive plan adopted what we can do is is we can have you know we'll have a dentin 2040 land use map but then we'll also have this land preservation map and so it gives folks the ability to turn on those layers so then it allows you know you can pile as much data on top of those different map layers that you can so if we find that we can't cleanly publish a single map for the purposes of the plan document then we'll stick to the two separate maps but know that we've got a little more flexibility post and post adoption where we can include that in our interactive GIS map but but if I could get clarification on something because I didn't quite follow your direction you mentioned you were like the emphasizing potential something within the EATJ and my that may have gotten conflated I just meant that in the same way we had the discussion telling future residents or future land developers what we wanted aspirationally to see in the EATJ I think highlighting this concept of potential preservation and I think that that's for any any preservation map whether it an additional historical or this environmental one I think just making sure that they understand that that's potential and that that would be our aspiration is the city that we were not just focused on parks and trails I think that was my quibble in the previous delivery is everything we saw was parks and trails and now with this additional we see the potential for where Gary can get land or where a developer can make accommodations and and put our residents or a building in front and leave the the protected area behind in the single parcel thank you okay okay anyone else airport to Meltzer yeah just you know before we leave the topic I'll just highlight that I sent in notes where there are a few specific places where you might want to back up what you know what was just expressed about how it's meant to be used in conjunction and without getting any detail just say the number so it's on on the tape but you know in two dot eleven and two dot fourteen two dot seventeen point two you know where you can say we should you know that for future development decisions we should look at the future land use map and the pervert preservation plan and PPP those are just some places and I would also just touch briefly on two dot two dot two you might want to talk about just going a little bit beyond what Councilmember Davis said but how yep just enshrines what exists I would like to see a note that says over this ten-year period that we'd like to devise policies to encourage conformity you know with the sort of the spirit of the PPP there's a little work to do you know going forward because I think probably things we'd all agree on we couldn't hammer out right now you know about what what arm's-length incentives could be created to you know do an even better job on conservation and identified areas and we received your email and given the time period of which we received it where you had the additional deeper dive on the individual policy or action items unfortunately we weren't not able to incorporate all of that in our presentation today but we can take a look at that between now and Monday understood thanks anyone else okay say none we can proceed okay moving on the next session section is related to the future land use map and this is to just provide a bit more detail and clarification about the changes that have been made since the last time we have convened and then to get a little bit more specific into the different areas where some of the more substantial land use changes that have occurred as well so this is the overall future land use math is illustrating those muds in the western side of the community in the ETJ as low density residential otherwise much of its similar to what you've seen before so I'm going to go to the next slide and show you the 2040 map with the highlighted areas that we want to have a little more discussion about and I want to flip between these slides a couple of times there's the next slide to show you the 2030 so you can see the areas that are highlighted have changes that have taken place and and probably a little bit more substantial than the other portions of the the map other than the ETJ land uses and then we're going to drill in a little bit closer more closely and look at these different areas so on the left is the 2030 plan future land use plan and on the right is the 2040 future land use plan and what we want to illustrate under number one was that this is a change that's been produced based upon you know direction from the real estate markets the economic development group and the development trends that we're seeing in this area and also to capitalize upon some of the resources that are available in this portion of the community at the northwest corner of the loop 288 and I 35 previously it was identified as business innovation which was that kind of a unfocused nebulous description for it for that land use designation but the reality is that based upon all those factors that I just mentioned development trends in context and resources the rail line the the intention is to have that re-develop re-designated as light industrial now light industrial is that new one of the new land use designations that tries to describe an area that would develop with those lighter industrial uses meaning stuff that's more along the lines of warehouse light manufacturing assembly office uses and then all these supportive uses that make sure that those areas can move forward and grow and prosper such as business park uses commercial uses in business to business type uses things like that this has been coordinated with the those land use recommendations like I said as well as with the parks plan and the mobility plan for number one so we made sure that there's alignment in almost different respects for that land use change two is a little different in that it's a change to some of the land uses they're identified not only within the incorporated area of Denton but also into the ETJ and the reason for that is because this area is one with certainty and that we know what the development pattern is going to be much like those muds that have an approved development pattern we know it's certainty what the development pattern is going to be so that's been reflected you can see there's low density residential land use that's inside of Denton and then moving into the ETJ area to reflect those approved developments in those areas moving on this is the southwest detail of Denton so around Hunter and Cole Ranch in the airport and you can see five is a change there to change from the rural designation to the industrial commerce designation to support future growth around Denton Airport through the 2040 that's supportive of the airport and also because the loop 288 extension will eventually run through this area as well so this is getting the land prepared looking at it with the vision of the community saying this is the type of development we want around the airport to support the airport to support the local economy and the regional economy and then also for number six were changes that are both showing the master plan community designation which we talked about at the previous work session and then also to reflect some of the modifications to land use on the east side of 35 West related to transition and providing a little bit more diversity in the land uses and also reflect the development densities that are beginning to appear in that area it also provides a little bit more clear designation of a community neighborhood or community mixed-use area as a center point there in that area and then other minor modifications with the medium density residential moving on to the southeast detail this has got a couple different ones on it number seven is downtown Denton and the change between the 2030 plan and the 2040 plan is that downtown Denton was expanded and more of the transitional areas between established neighborhoods and downtown are included in this downtown Denton designation and it gets a little bit more close to the universities as well as encapsulates the TOD area around the transit area a little bit more as well the reasons for this is that it is a more more comprehensive area for future detailed area planning where the relationship between those transitional areas and the neighborhoods and the universities and the TOD can be better enhanced and reviewed and coordinated through that including the opportunity to establish gateways that might lead up to 380 University Drive or elsewhere to the south so they just gives you a little bit bigger package to work with in terms of trying to define that area plan for downtown number three is a reflection of the typical development patterns that are occurring in that area so it's an increase excuse me and having the light industrial land use on where that pattern is occurring and forecasted to continue to occur and be supported by local economic development efforts and four was changes to reflect the development pattern that's being established in that area of low density residential whereas before it was shown as a rural density type of land use so this is a more in alignment with the patterns that have been established the 2030 plan was put into effect lastly I wanted to show the preferred growth scenario map now in the last time we discussed we said that there was no proposed changes to that preferred growth scenario and that largely remains true today what we have changed is that in light of those additional employment opportunities in that large industrial area at the intersection of 288 and 35 additional purple shading has been put there and now you the legend is not shown on this map but the purple was the route to illustrate those areas with more intense employment type land uses and clustering so that preferred growth scenario map is now reflecting the changes that were put into the flume but by and large the remainder of this map is intact with what was provided before the future land use map is still in alignment with this preferred growth map and furthermore when this was introduced to the community and stakeholders was part of discussion they supported this map and the continued movement towards growing dentin in this way so with that I will end my presentation and ask for a discussion and direction so mayor basically what we're looking for is is council okay with the changes that were made to the future land use map as Ed pointed out in his presentation and then also with the update that we made to the focus area map and then lastly I realized we forgot to make mention so I believe this came from councilmember Armentor and there was much discussion about about changing the name of the business innovation district so we are also proposing to change that to business center so you would see that reflected in the maps moving forward we think business center is is a better description or excuse me a better name that better fits the land use description that we have going along with it instead of the innovation connotation because given that innovation is so difficult to define associated with that so just in the interest of transparency wanted to let you know that we heard your comments previously when we received the feedback back on January 25th okay thank you comments for staff questions councilor Archer yes so first of all and thank you for that the change that to business center I think that's it's much clearer and will be less problematic because of that I was wondering about in the last slide that you showed with the the change the the addition since we saw it last time of that purple shading indicating and major employment area I was wondering if you could speak to two aspects of that number one where did that change come from who in the community I don't mean individuals but you know was this did this come from you know feedback from the business community from the Economic Development Board or Chamber of Commerce or you know who was the the impetus for this change and secondly just wondering if you could say a little bit more about you know what difference it makes to label this as a high and I don't have the legend right in front of me the code but you know high employment area as far as you know planning so Ed if you will I'll take an attempt at this and let me know if you have anything else to add so with respect to this map here and how did this change come about so this was actually something that staff and our consultant team had identified that given given the changes that are being proposed to the future land use map and so Ed if you could go back to the slide that illustrates I believe it's area one thank you so the graphic on the left again 2030 the graphic on the right 2040 so in our conversations with our economic development team and with the development activity that in the growth that we're seeing in this area hence why as I explained we believed it was appropriate to shade the area particularly at the northwest quadrant of I-35 and 288 as this business center designation and so and then also on the excuse me as that as the lot industrial and then on the on the east side of the highway that the business center so given that change in the future land use map when we were looking at that and then we fast forward then back over to Ed if you can go back to the preferred growth scenario map we realized we had a disconnect between the two maps so we wanted to make sure that the preferred growth scenario map was in alignment with the changes that were being made to the future land use map so hopefully that addresses both of your questions with that explanation and if not please let us know thank you okay and if you can pull that graphic down for me please thank you excellent counselor back I'm so sorry to do this mr. mayor but can you put the graphic back up again okay not your fault you didn't know I had a question in this area it's so I think this highlights perfectly and then the other slide I'll ask you is the other slide that you just showed but that the as we go into hunter coal we have the extension of the highway corridor in this light industrial and and we can see the potential alignment with the mobility plan and the other areas and we can see the extension along 288 into towards hills of Denton now if you could put the north Denton map back up so in in in the previous 2030 plan we can see that you know the the higher densities on the south of the old plan and I don't know where they are on the new plan in the concept plan I don't know how the the NPC has changed that but we can see how that would still be somewhat consistent to have those higher densities and and alignments with the light industrial future land use and so I guess what I the point I was going to get to is I think it would be useful if we did something like we just discussed earlier about outlining the ETJ if instead of blocking it out with with a with a cipher with just a brown it would be useful in terms of looking at the future growth if we could outline NPCs with with big thick ball brown and then leave the the future land use designations that in are in their concept plan so that we can see and in in at some future point address when they come before us oh your concept plan needs to be adjusted because it isn't consistent but we have we have that map of how how it fits in with the flume and the and the the future land use designation so I'm encouraging us to my direction would be to go for an outline and continue to show the the uses in in our future land use map rather than a big brown blob thank you okay back to the future land use okay I don't know what you're saying okay thank you mayor just I disagree just a little bit I think I think for the purposes of the future land use map I think we're kind of communicating about a number of different things but I think it's important to communicate just like we do at the ETJ and where our authority is and where it ends I think the difference for me with the big PDs and the NPCs is that the concept plan may or may not have any it may not communicate anything helpful because those things are governed by their own separate agreements what might be more helpful I think to me would be you keep the block to to communicate that this is governed by something else that the future land use map but we're not talking about a future land use map amendment or kind of normal planning process we're talking about an NPC amendment that's really almost certainly got to be developer initiated they've got to want something to open that back up but maybe we include those maps that concept map maybe it's another page that says this is the current concept as governed by the agreements that we have because it's just such a very different process for changing for changing those and they could get out of sync pretty pretty quickly if it's kind of a kind of a lower level lower hierarchy map that's not the official land future land use map because it's such a different process okay and we can definitely take a look at that anyone else okay do you have enough to work from there I do okay great thank you okay and I think we're ready for the next section thank you again I'm just gonna be cute up all right so moving on so we've talked about some of the higher level concepts of the vision being the ETJ the environmentally sensitive lands we talked about the future land use map and the focus areas but this is the part where we start to make the plan not just give us the information in terms of saying what's the stuff that informs how the community looks forward but now what do we start to do with that so this is the implementation section and as was mentioned by Tina earlier on there are over 270 different action items that are in this comprehensive plan update and they cover the gamut from things that Denton is doing right now and should continue to do to things that are short-term meaning stuff that can be done within the next several years midterm you know somewhere in that mid five to ten year range and then the stuff that's long term the ten year range but they're all important actions to implement the vision of the plan and to some degree there might be more certainty with how you proceed on those on the ongoing basis or on the short-term basis but for the longer stuff it becomes much more harder to pin that down because there's so many different factors that can go into play about how you do it who's involved and everything else so this plan tries to give its best guidance moving forward for how that should occur and each one of these actions are developed and informed by a couple different topics that shown on the column on the right there's the action elements there's there there's the key action which I guess maybe the detail more detailed description of what is to be accomplished the reference policies are going to be references to those policies within the comprehensive plan itself so it's each action is supported by conclusions or policies or vision in this plan we each action is defined as being is it a regulatory action is it an establishment of a new program is it a partnership is it collaborate whatever it might be they were tried to frame so there is an opportunity to see how that action could be moved forward timeframe again just as I described before whether it's ongoing short min or long responsible department or agency there is likely even easy to identify department or agency that should be spearheading this and then using partners to help see it through fruition to help move it forward but what this implementation table can't describe because it's not the purview of a comprehensive plan and the comprehensive plan is really just setting the table is it can't tell you exactly how it's to be done and exactly what how do you use the information that's contained within this plan or the resources but it can just tell you that these things exist and I like to think of it kind of like getting a I guess a broad recipe a recipe for cooking dinner cooking eggs or something and the recipe is going to tell you well you need these ingredients so you need eggs you need bacon you need sausage you whatever else might need you're gonna need a frying pan you're gonna need your oven but it doesn't tell you how much of it it doesn't tell you how to whip whether you whisk the eggs or if you dice the onions whether you smoke the meat or you throw it in the oven and bake it it doesn't tell you any of that it just says that these elements are important to be considered and used as you move forward but determining exactly how they are to be used is a function of the implementation is function that comes later it's the deep dive by staff working as the lead agency or the partner with counsel with planning as I commission to determine how that implementation would occur so moving on I wanted to show you a couple examples that exist in the comprehensive plan right now for some of those important short-term tasks and these are the short-term task topics that have been identified by council previous work sessions planning and zoning Commission and seem to keep rising to the top as those important factors that get implemented in this comprehensive plan and I and I'm not going to read through each of these but I want to illustrate this that there are actions for all of these elements and we've talked about some more that we're going to add or examine to see if we can enhance earlier in this presentation so with development and area plans it has supported you know this is the key action is to you know revise zoning districts use the preferred growth concept and the flume to guide looking at doing fiscal impact analysis and trying to move dentin in a way where they can use regulations to implement the vision of this comprehensive plan and it's supported by several different policies and actions that are in this plan it's something that should be done in the short term and it's going to be primarily planning and developments responsibility but they need a partner with people in different organizations to see this through like the planning and zoning Commission another one that's really important is the creation of small area plans and we're going to go into that in further detail in a couple slides down the road as well but that's going to have a whole different set of partners and it's going to have be led by it's a regulation in the short term with different policies supporting that activity and so if I just keep working through this infill the same thing applies you know there's things that need to be done or acted upon in order to fulfill the vision of the plan with respect to infill as well so there's the key action the related policies who's responsible who the partners might be and that's just illustrated here as well open space and preservation several of things we touched on are highlighted not only in these but in many many other actions of the 270 that are there in the comprehensive plan and all of these actions were just just again to remind you were largely a lot of them existed in the 2030 plan they were analyzed they were compared against the community vision community feedback feedback from stakeholders feedback from the planning zoning Commission and City Council to determine their relevancy moving forward whether they needed to be modified if the policies that supported them needed to be changed or modified or if the language or timing of these things needed to be changed and all of those were examined and then new ones were created where there was an absence of an action to fulfill a certain vision or implementation task so there's some for the open space parks and recreation same thing that this is related to development of the parks coordinate with other agencies trying to create those corridors you know ongoing activities that are already occurring today much of it through the work being done with the parks recreation master plan update and then other short-term tasks and then also with mobility plan is an ongoing and short-term it's things that need to keep the momentum needs to be carried forward and continued forward to move the vision of the community forward so that's the implementation in a nutshell and I just wanted to just describe again that it's not designed to tell you every little bit of information at this point and how to do it because this is a vision document it's saying this is a vision we vision will use these tools will vision will use these policies these people these agencies this this timeframe and then when that timeframe becomes right and it's time to act upon it then that intimate discussion that deep dive will occur to tell you all the little details about how to make sure that it's done in the right way with the right tools at the right time and I'm at this point I think we just wanted to kind of run through that because there's a lot of discussion from council about this at the previous work sessions and hopefully this can give a little bit more clarification about how that implementation tables to be used in the comprehensive plan and moving forward and then we do have some additional slides after this discussion related to implementation tasks okay implementation any thoughts for you back councilman Armitter yeah I have a question about that last slide with the five bullet points on it um and the third and fourth bullet point both have the words open space oh great you're showing it okay yeah so the the third and fourth bullet point points three and four out of five open space preservation and parks and open space and you know since they both have the word open space in it and but and which is something very important to me and this this this council I'm just wondering if you could kind of speak a little bit to you why it's kind of broken up divided into two separate bullet points one related to open space preservation and the other related to parks and open space it's opposed to you know one bullet point are these two different kinds of open space we're talking about I'm trying to figure out and I'm not necessarily against it but I'm trying to figure out what is the benefit of repeating open space in two separate bullet points as opposed to just consolidating so great question and and now that you have brought that to light I guess I didn't necessarily look at it from I think the perspective that you're coming about it in terms of they're just all one right it's all open space but really from our purpose and when we were looking at the comments that we received the comments that were really geared towards that land preservation plan that we talked about previously we really saw it more in that open space preservation category it separated apart from the parks and open space because the the land preservation discussion was also in addition to the environmentally sensitive areas deals more with with private land whereas the parks and open space deals more with publicly owned land so you're right they could be clustered all in into one component but we just given the comments that we received is hence why we structured the or identified those as two separate bullet points and do you have anything else to add to that if anyone there you know fellow council members or staff have any better ideas than what I'm about to suggest but I think it would be helpful either sticking the words public and private you know respectively in the bullet points that apply so that would be clear or simply consolidating them into those two bullet points into one with just open space and letting that public and private be just mentioned as it's part of the you know more the detailed description I'm kind of leaning towards the latter only because when we're talking about implementation it just feels it just more helpful and focused to me both as a from a policy making level and implementation level but also just from a public communication level to be able to narrow it to as few bullet points as possible but it could be that there's some advantages you know or disadvantages that that I'm not seeing in in either so I'm curious to know you know staff or council what their thoughts are on that and I'm I'm not I'm not happy with that kind of with that ambiguity that's there but I'm fine with the emphasis on both public and private I completely agree with the substance of it understood and in my apologies and I guess I should have been a little clearer previously in my response you know for purposes of just structuring the PowerPoint presentation is why we had the two separate bullet points if you will given the topics we were trying to work through but in terms of the document itself we can go back and happy to take a look at all of the 270 action items and the goals and policies to see how they're structured because they may already be in there and I'm drawing a blank off the document in front of me that address both public and private but we can go back and take a look at that further and see if we need to add any clarity okay okay okay so so just to confirm these these bullet points then this is just for the presentation these are not that is correct that was just for the purposes of the presentations okay thank you for clarifying in that case in that that is less of it not so much a concern for me thank you thank you so I thank you miss man I love love the love the action items I know that feels like it's it's crazy but it gives us lots of avenues to to assess ourselves and I and I guess my question goes to I saw a lot of action items where you know we specified sort of what our goal was but the the assessment vehicle and I take Ed's point that we don't want to get into the weeds but when I when I rate state and federal grants I have to give some sort of measure that I expect to use or the federal government doesn't let me have a new computer so you know I one of the things I saw sometimes it doesn't matter like we will we will annually review blah blah blah okay that's a binary yes no did we annually review but I for substantial numbers of the metrics for the action items the key performance indicators didn't really have a metric of success so I don't think this is a this is a curtailment of this plan I guess what I'm asking for is is at this level do we have do we know how we're assessing these metrics of success you know we will we will do X things four times you know and and as opposed to just saying we aspire to do a thing and and so measure metrics of success are really important in KPIs and if it's not in this document then then where should we have the metrics of success and and and we're in the in the pipeline and and how do we you know sometimes when you're evaluating the appropriateness of an action item the the metrics of success that you envision for that action item tell you how appropriate is you know because I'm not gonna pump all the nitrogen out of the air if that's the metric of success I mean you know so we're gonna say that's a foolish action item because not because whatever the goal was was bad but because that metric of success was bad so is it here is it somewhere else in the pipeline where do we put our metrics of success that's a great question in with comprehensive planning that's always a challenge on on how do we identify the the metrics and in the measures of success what I found in some other communities that I've worked in the implementation matrices that is proposed within the comprehensive plan document is very similar in terms of identifying who's the accountable party or and or the partnerships associated with trying to achieve that but I think really where it comes back down to is us reporting to you as a council you know whether that's annually or every two years or what you know whatever time frame that we might establish on how well have we been at achieving X that's provided for in the comprehensive plan so you know given one of the conversations that we've had today about you know preservation of the land whether that's public or private if if we were to benchmark 2022 and looked at how much undeveloped land we had today then you know in a year's time if we wanted to or two years time maybe to give a little bit more opportunity for a measurement to come into play if we wanted in the year 2022 provide for do an assessment to see how much undeveloped land is remaining then we can see what percentage of land was either used and or preserved and how does that compare with previous years but that's something that could take forth in a subsequent discussion or action following adoption of the comprehensive plan and we can go back and look at if we have identified any areas of metrics within the plan right now and Ed I'd have to lean on you if we have that currently in the document because nothing's coming to mind just yet but that's something that we can go back and look at but it that's always a challenge in in comprehensive planning is how do we assign metrics to see what kind of progress we've made and in an example I'll use in another project because it again it comes back down to be more area specific is in a community that I just worked in recently that was the topic of discussion is is how do we determine that we've been successful with the policies that we've put into place in that particular community was the I-35 quarter the city was interested in influencing change they wanted to see reinvestment within that quarter so one of the ways or one of them metrics that we could that we identified that we could use for purposes of that specific plan was to look at the change in value of property over time so when you're trying to do reinvestment and wanting to promote growth and reinvestment you know a key indicator is of what additional value has occurred you know if we the city have spent X number of dollars in public investments whether it be through infrastructure acquisition of land that we've used in public-private partnerships where the case may be within that quarters study area boundary then we could say okay we the city have invested let's say 26 million dollars but it's resulted in a return of 1 billion dollars in private investment you know that that's a measurement tool that we can look at for that specific area so citywide it's a little more challenging especially in a community the size of Denton because we're 90 square miles right but we can look towards identifying what additional metrics if you will that we might be able to include in the plan that we believe are important to seeing on the progress that we're making and maybe that's what we do you know if council's interested in an annual update of how well we're doing on conforming with the comprehensive plan or every two-year update we were happy to take a look at that and being able to communicate that to council on how we've achieved those certain objectives and so in the case of today's discussion with land preservation being a key theme associated with this council is you know we could come back in a year or two years time and say using 2022 is the benchmark of the year that we adopted the comprehensive plan two years later have we been successful you know in in that in that objective or do we feel like that we haven't been successful enough when we when we hopefully can maybe apply some more specific data to it but hopefully that answers your question I think we're aligned but I guess my question is does it go here do we have the the metrics of success in this document or if it later I guess is the easy binary question and if it's later then then maybe in the future I'll do the cop-out in the future could staff maybe drop us a line and an email or a part of an ISR and tell us if it's not in this document then where where and how do we anticipate implementing the metrics of success so my recommendation to you would be allow us to report to you whether it's in an ISR or in a work session update briefing that you know what what matrix we've identified and what successes or or areas where we haven't been successful right you know we need to measure our faults too but we do that in the future and be able to come back and report to you right now as you know as Ed was speaking to in this implementation chapter it's it's difficult for us to hone in to the fine level of detail on the action items because it all also depends upon when we start implementing them as well so I what I would ask from you is allow us to give council updates periodically if that's annually or every two years to measure where we've been successful or where we haven't held ourselves accountable then allow us to bring that information to you but when we're talking about comprehensive planning I mean we're talking we're steering a big ship here right so it is because we're with the nature of what we're trying to influence so it's it's difficult for us to say oh yeah we can come back in six months and give you this data because in the reality is is we won't have meaningful data to share with you all right thank you okay councillor Davis thank you mayor time for me to beat the drum just among friends it's important for me to point out right under multimobility revise and implement the mobility plan to be consistent with the future land use map and as it stands right now I don't think that's the case and I think you know the areas that I'm talking about thank you okay anyone else councillor armature yeah just briefly just wanted to respond to and echo councilmember Beck's point about metrics I I would love to see you know something like what we have for the monitoring progress of city bonds a kind of a community oversight process when just as there's bond oversight committee you know some sort of community comprehensive plan oversight community oversight committee that could in conjunction with staff you know report back at some reasonable and I am I completely understand your point about you know can't necessarily say within six months or nine months you know what kind of results we're gonna see but you know within a reasonable time frame on you know whether this comprehensive plan is succeeding and with with a clear sense of you know of what the metrics are that would be I think really helpful and help the public feel very involved in that you know that's something that I feel was lacking in the implementation of the 2030 plan people in the public who felt that it wasn't that you know that the reality wasn't matching that comprehensive plan felt kind of powerless and just only being able to speak out about it and you know not have any kind of means for doing anything about it something like a community committee made up of residents would I think really really help people to feel the public to feel that they have more of a voice in monitoring the progress of that this plan I was gonna say I think that's a great idea and what I would recommend to council is is the planning and zoning Commission we have the appointed planning and zoning Commission which you all appoint members to and the planning and zoning Commission would be the perfect entity to oversee and take the responsibility of monitoring the implementation of the comprehensive plan okay and any other questions mayor Proctor Melzer yeah sorry yeah you beat me to it I think the knitting it all together the idea of oversight at P&Z makes perfect sense I think they never really get to do the planning part of the name and I think putting that sort of awareness and sensitivity you know in that body we'll help them as they do the zoning part okay any other questions seeing none thank you mayor and to continue to the last segment I wanted to kind of dive in a little bit more into the implementation tasks that were those that really should be honed in on as as you move forward some of those short-term tasks that are critically important to the vitality and implementation of the vision of Denton moving forward and there's two of them in particular because this goes back into that you know the overarching message that was brought up at the beginning you know balanced growth responsible growth infill redevelopment area planning parks recreation preservation mobility plan transit all those different elements this is where it all comes together and really in a meaningful way through that detailed study that can be done with area plans and so specifically I wanted to say you know it's important I think it's important and you know in the conversations that we've had between matrix and city staff and then also supported by a lot of the other information we received from the stakeholders and other groups you know the area plans are really are going to get that opportunity to give that detailed analysis and a determination about Denton special areas you know those corridors those neighborhoods and and have an opportunity to refine those land uses and the development regulations the streets the preservation approach everything taken together to enhance the character the identity of Denton the quality of life this is this is those opportunities to drill down from that higher level view into a much more focused look and you know to implement those area plans it's going to take a discussion between staff and planning zoning and City Council to identify those areas which should be prioritized now the map on the right is illustrating many of the areas which were identified as focus areas or focus concept areas in the 2030 plan and largely retained moving forward we did add a couple changes since we last spoke about this notably those purple ringed items which may be a little bit difficult to read but there's one in the northeast of Denton one at the northwest as well and then one in the southeast of Denton but among those I mean all of those different areas those corridors those places those neighborhoods those regions could be examined for that detailed planning discussion and area plans so that there can be a lot of certainty that those areas will develop in alignment with the vision and intents of City Council in the community further with that is the infill and redevelopment opportunities since that we've been discussing that there's really an need to balance the growth and to fulfill the vision you know some of that growth is going to be on the periphery and it's going to satisfy a segment of the market but other growth there's an intention to exploit or take advantage of the character and resources that Denton has within the community either through infill or redevelopment infill typically would be considered areas that are vacant lots that are within the developed area of a community so surrounded by developed parcels that are undeveloped they've never been developed they've been vacant so that would be an infill opportunity typically a redevelopment opportunity would be a parcel that is developed currently in some state maybe it's a commercial building maybe it's a single-family home maybe it's a parking lot but the redevelopment opportunity would be changing that use or changing that structure that is on that site or even reusing that structure for a new purpose on the same parcel that's been developed once before so those are two different distinct things and the Denton as we mentioned earlier does have tools already in place through their development code and other standards to support infill and redevelopment and some of the things that would need to be handled through implementation of this plan is setting actions that help just as we were having the discussion about how do you define success with this the the actions in the implementation table would say you know continually monitor and evaluate those provisions to see if they're achieving the desired goals now it's still kind of high-level and nebulous but it gives that staff and City Council and the Commission an opportunity to figure out what those desired end results are that can be measured against but the the broader vision being we have standards we have to use them but let's assess them monitor them evaluate them and figure out what is necessary to make them more successful are they giving us the results we want are they creating incompatibility issues are they creating hardships for redevelopment or should Denton start to look at opportunities to change you know or define a policy because as I described you know the infill could be described in one particular way but there may be an area of the community that could benefit from being identified as an infill area and be subject to an infill policy that gives additional direction and clarity on how those codes should be used and to achieve the vision for infill that's identified through the vision statement and comprehensive plan goals that could be also done the same for redevelopment and redevelopment activities whether there's financial incentives that need to be done there are their particular parcels that need to be studied and identified and then focused on through an economic development capacity all those different aspects could be handled through that next iteration of implementation implementing that comprehensive plan action and that could result into the ability to draft and adopt additional provisions which achieve those goals which you know help to make those metrics six you know identify or illustrate success so I'm going to move on one more slide and that's just to show a little bit more detail on that comp on that focus area concept hopefully you can see it a bit better the northwest area the northeast area where there has been a lot of conversations from the community about looking to establish an area plan the southeast area and then some of the more traditional areas that have been identified since the last plan such as the downtown Denton and the various corridors and neighborhood centers throughout the community so all of those areas could be candidates for area plans but what this plan will not be able to determine is which one is the priority number one which one's priority number two which ones could come five years later and that's where this plan sets the table and then gives the City Council staff Commission and others the opportunity to weigh the needs and the opportunities that might be available to act upon establishing area plans throughout the community so that's really the next part of the implementation is let's get to that stage where you can have that detailed discussion on what it's going to take to identify those areas budget for them scope them out timelines and what resources are you going to need to see those come to fruition so with that I think that that's what we wanted to highlight was just the the implementation you know from the concept of what it is in the comprehensive plan being that menu of actions to move forward with and then more specifically here are some of the details that need to be identified through those actions but can't be identified through this comprehensive plan because it's not designed to tell you that information that is a policy discussions that need to occur in concert with them from implementing those actions and with that I'll preserve for any questions or comments you might have regarding these topics okay and let me ask you is it okay if we just finish the last slide on next steps and combine those two kind of close out discussions is that okay absolutely so Ed why don't you go ahead and pull that up because I think I was going to take care of this slide so in terms of our next steps you can see all the work that we've done as of today including we went ahead and published the legal notice in anticipation and moving forward with the public hearing proceedings with the planning and zoning Commission on February 23rd and also with City Council on March 1st so hence why that that item is noted up there on the published legal the legal notice has up last week so having our discussion today we've gotten great direction from the council we'll have a similar discussion with the planning and zoning Commission tomorrow and then on Monday February 14th we have a joint meeting that's planned but between the planning and zoning Commission and council kind of bring everything together and if we hear any areas of where we have different direction on a particular topic and we need to hash that out a little bit better between the two groups then allow for that facilitated discussion so that way when we moved into the public hearing phase that that we have a document that is representative of the feedback that has been received from both entities in addition to the community but otherwise like I said our goal is to try and get this across the finish line on on March 1st I guess back to the implementation side and if you can go back one direction actually - thank you so a couple of things just want to point out the the purple the the solid purple that's listed as potential area plan that's just another form of also the center focus areas the gateway focus areas travel quarters the in which you can see on the map or predominantly shown more as the the kind of that magenta color this was a crude map that we had to put together kind of last minute because we could not locate the original file so our apologies that the the purple outline is not necessarily to take any sort of hierarchy over any of the other areas that are identified on the map because if we're successful getting the conference a plan adopted on on March 1st then our next task immediately following adoption is to come before the planning and zoning Commission we have that slated for about mid to late March to have a discussion with them regarding what areas should we prioritize doing area plans and then bringing that information to City Council right now we have that slated for April 5th so we can have that conversation with you as to what areas of town do you think we need to be focusing and doing our area planning so far what we've heard from Council is interest in the northwest quarter with I-35 in the loop also Northeast Denton which I anticipate will have some additional conversation on Monday but also Southeast Denton I know that's been communicated thus far to us so when we bring that back to you on on April 5th I anticipate that given the direction you've already given us that you know we would have those presumably identified higher on the list of priorities given your direction so far but I want to be able to get the planning and zoning Commission's feedback as well as what you've indicated as well one other thing you know as it relates to these next steps on these actions they are budget-dependent so you know so if we're going to prioritize our areas where we want to be influential then that's going to in all likelihood require financial assistance associated with that so I just I plant this seed with you right now because we will be entering into budget season and I plant that seed with my city management team also who are on zoom but because as we move into budget preparation season those would be then the types of things that we would be requesting funding for and as we work it through the internal budget committee and then bringing that forth for your ultimate action in consideration of the budget later this year so like I said just just planting that seed right now for your benefit and then also one other thought that came to mind with respect to implementation updates and not trying to backtrack too much but that is you know in addition to wherever we land annual or every two years updates that are provided we can also do ISRs and give that information to council and brief you accordingly as as the need arises or if there's certain items where you're interested in you know Tina how how have we been on achieving X then we can always report that to you in an ISR so just wanted to share that with you but other than that happy to receive any additional comments you may have on the implementation aspect you know if you concur with us and that that our future really is in doing the area plans and then focusing on how best we address infill redevelopment and maybe some refining some policies in the future as it relates to that but otherwise I appreciate your attention to all of the the discussion that we've had today in the feedback that you've provided so with that I'll be quiet and happy to receive any final comments. Great thank you very much for the structured way which you kind of got us through that that was heavy lift so closing comments comments on implementation implementation part 2 man port to Meltzer. Yeah so happy with this work session you know I found it really productive and I'm looking forward to the next steps I would see if other council members agree with this but probably I don't know if it's in rank order but it had to the list southwest keeps coming up yes for us needing that you know thought through SAP. Okay anyone else? Councilman Davis. Thank You Mayor I really appreciate what you just told us about implementation and the small area plans and kind of how that unfolds I was curious about that and I'm glad you addressed it the other part of my question on the second half of implementation here can you help me a better understand why we have so many different kinds of focus area and how we could possibly focus on so many things and and then also can you help me better understand branding stations because depending on what they are if they're just you know big tech stop medallions on underpasses well then maybe they're all in the right spots but if it's other kind of wayfinding stuff if it's other kind of public art kind of things I might have some different thoughts about where those gateways really are as a motorist or as a bike rider or whatever what is the purpose of those and how do we envision those branding stations? Okay sure thing so to address your first question in terms of the central area focus travel focus the different dots and all that so I know that the 2030 plan I believe has a little more refined discussion in that but otherwise I would say those were decisions that were made back at that point in time when the 2030 plan was originally done those still remain areas of relevancy so hence why we've continued to include them you we can go back and look at the shading potentially to see if there's a really a need to distinguish but really I think the whole message on that graphic was to illustrate that there are there's further refined analysis and studies that could be applied to this area and where the city could benefit especially if we're trying to hone in on trying to influence a particular change in that particular area so now in terms of branding you know that that's a great question everything because it's come up in also some other cities I've worked in and in a lot of times it's what do we mean by branding how did what does branding look like and we could probably have a whole separate conversation related to that because in one community I've worked in it was it was one way which was just adding signage that had the city's name as you entered into the the community and in different key areas but in another community I worked in they looked at it more from a placemaking perspective right so I think it's important we have to define what we mean by branding first you know I-35 is getting ready to undergo highway reconstruction as part of Tech Stots program and I know Gary Packen and his team are working on this and that is the highway beautification or the betterments as we refer to and what Tech Stots calls them so I know his team I believe has been working with the Arts Committee with respect to what what is that theme what gets implemented as part of the highway betterments but to me branding could also be you know as we look at these different areas of town are we looking for more signage type branding are we looking at from a placemaking perspective and what we're trying to achieve so I would ask that you know maybe we have that as a separate conversation if that's something that council's interested in in having that conversation about you know are we trying to brand Denton as a whole are we looking at individual areas but I would encourage us to have that as a separate conversation apart from from the comprehensive plan I get that I totally agree my question about that kind of defining them was so that I know how to treat them in the context of this conversation like if we're going to do a comp plan it has the map that identifies the places where we anticipate doing some kind of branding it might be good to know what kind of branding and at least in the very abstract what we're talking about so I know well do we need fewer green stars or more green stars do we have the right number of green stars if that makes sense and again it's not you're absolutely right it's not something to spend a huge amount of time on right now but it's it's the thing that leaps out at me when I look at this map is I need to know what those are before I know if they're in the right places all right customer bet thank you yeah the the focus concept map has a PhD so it's the the shiny so similarly though I think there's an opportunity in terms of implementation and I mentioned this to you in the hallway I know this is the 30,000 foot view but and that lends itself to the large-scale concept like like you and nine Scott we're talking about but just to reiterate here on the dies for the rest of the counselors we're seeing that large scale you know we want to put business campuses here and this is residential and this is this and this is that and that is the point and the purpose of the comp plan and the future land use map and future land use designations but there is also at the policy level at this 30,000 foot view is this idea of when do we do small-scale and that isn't readily served when you're looking at big chunks of so I guess what I'm encouraging is as as we implement to look for opportunities where we can have consistent small scale whether that's mixed use or what I don't want to I don't want to govern it I don't want to put bumper rails on it but I want to I want to make sure that we don't lose we don't go full ADHD and lose focus on the ability to do small scale where we need to because it goes to the concepts of infill that we that you let up this section off on our end redevelopment there that's that's small scale inherently because we're replacing small parcels and I think it would behoove us to make sure that our policy and tools are aligned with both large campus opportunities and and small micro opportunities okay that comes from a bird let's have a couple of questions here can you just again I mean may have to define this already and if you have them I'm sorry I didn't hear it can you define the center focus area I see there's a lot of little little center focus areas on this map and I in my head I am seeing some of these places but what exactly does center focus area means okay so with respect to the center focus area it's really it's in us without the document in front of me going from memory is that it's focusing on the core of the city and so it was identified in the 2030 plan as and let me look check my map here real quick yeah so it shows up it shows up throughout the the map but it's focused most where the the dots are is or that the circle outlines looks like they're focusing on not only downtown but maybe key areas along certain highway corridors and then in other areas that maybe it has been identified in the past that there's a certain service or a need that's been identified in that area so it's just a probably a term that was used by the previous consultant on how that was identified okay maybe we can update that term and also travel center focus areas it looks like we only have one of those are we planning on in the future having additional travel center focus area that looks like that's up there at the 377 so with that when you think it's from travel center don't think of travel center in terms of like a Buckees or a racetrack or a large quick trip okay with that that is probably more given where it was located and make me think as the entryway into the city and to me I think these are all good questions that really help us formulate when we come back in on April 5th and have that conversation about prioritizing you know is that I know the I-35 quarter has come up in the past back in September I think it was my second week on the job we had a whole conversation about do we do an area plan for that particular portion of the I-35 quarter but it included a much larger area that I think took into consideration 288 where it was coming in 377 and the type of development influence there so really I think that the perspective of that one is probably from an entryway need and that goes back to what I was talking about earlier is just our highway quarters there they're the windows and into our community so is there a particular identity that we're looking at establishing you know as you're approaching from the north and entering into Denton that would be the great time for an area plan to focus on that area okay because my last and I appreciate you noting that because the next thing was going to be the gateway focus area it looks like we've already kind of made up our minds where those are going to be located or with the little small little blue dot blue circles is that already set in stone you know for us to be thinking in those terms or there's additional opportunities to change those as well we could add additional opportunities to that so that's part of you know this is what was identified in 2015 circa 2015 when we were working on the 2030 plan we felt that those locations still remain valid but that comes back from that prior that priority discussion that we'll have on April 5th if there's another area within the community that you think needs to be part of that discussion that we have on April 5th then in my opinion we could have that conversation then if there's something that comes to mind this week that you would like to see reflected on this map I would request that you go ahead and email that idea to me or unless you've got it with you right now then so we can evaluate that and and see how that fits in within the context of of how these areas have all been described okay well thank you very much from what I'm the feeling that I've gotten from some of my constituents as even just as early as this past Sunday was that they felt like they wanted to keep didn't weird you know and it's just this kind of hometown flavor that we have here unlike some of the modern you know that we know that's springing up very quickly around us so that that kind of leads me to my questions some of these little nuances there as we're starting to identify ourselves who are we really you know are we the grandparents where the kids go and they go and visit their grandparents and go back to wherever they came from do we want to keep the same feel of a hometown so I know that that's gonna be very important for us identify that and I appreciate the opportunity to you know have some kind of input on that thank you well and to me that comes back to what's our character and even to what councilmember Davis mentioned about in addition to branding aspects associated with that so but I didn't describe as eclectic but not necessarily weird so I'll have to put that one in my toolbox okay anyone else see none okay I just wanted to I have a question a random question Celeste mentioned San Antonio and I have a random question for her if she's still there Ed Celeste are you by any chance still on the zoom call yeah and I did appears as she is not no okay and maybe my question is and again it has nothing to do with nothing but I'm curious if you or Celeste worked on the hemisphere project if you did that's sent near their convention center but anyway it's it was a long-term planet and so if that rings a bell reach out to me and I'll have a question but anyway with respect to this document one of the things I'd like to see us do that you didn't touch on if it's possible and I'm assuming with maybe artificial intelligence or something we could do it and that's identify the zoning loopholes so for example that's how we get the that monstrosity on Scripture Street right they the developers identified a zoning miss before we could close it and so they they they pounce on those and so I see if there's a way to say hey here's the areas a part of the plan that says here's the areas that are 90 percent different than the zoning around them or something like that that kind of triggers hey here's where they're gonna try to get you and have that hey I can do this by right conversation that no one likes Park 7 is the thing so I just think if we can if we can get ahead of that from a comp plan and then that becomes a regular review of our vulnerabilities in that way I think that would be fantastic to protect developments like that from happening the other thing the other particular small area plan I'd like to take us take a look at and get in front of it is the where the loop connects and where it's going to go through obviously that opens up 300 acres there in that Western kind of industrial park area and really want to get in front of that it's not my first priority is probably two or three but I think it's important as that develops because you're talking about a turrs that's producing whatever 140 percent reinvestment so to plan that well to have kind of get in front of it from like a Western Boulevard Street or something like that where we have it set up for heavy truck traffic ready to go will inspire a lot of development especially with the connections that he would bring and Alliance Airport be filling in I think there's an opportunity to kind of sync up some some real great job centers for the residents of Denton if we do that well so I'd like to look from a small area plan perspective that's something I'd like to visit so just those two things other than that again thank you very much appreciate all that went into it I know we ate into you and Becky's schedule and staff schedule pretty good so thank you all for your work in preparation for this it really paid off and just send out what we need to do in preparation for Monday's meeting if you if you have information that you need maybe a reminder in advance of that would be good to kind of make sure we we get that done so it is 2 25 and in today's work session thank you very much thank you