Feb 01, 2022 City Council on 2022-02-01 2:00 PM

Good afternoon and welcome to this meeting of Denton City Council. Sorry we're a few minutes late had to we have to have a quorum to start so we're all set and it is 2 0 3 p.m. on today Tuesday February 1st and so I think it's Groundhog Day Black History Month starting it's all good so first part of our agenda is the citizens comments on the consent agenda do we have any citizens comments no mayor not today thank you request for clarification on the agenda items on this agenda from from council any question council member back thank you mr. mayor I have questions on EGH&I okay start with E the it's a simple question it should be quick the we're proposing funding future weatherization inspection efforts through electric revenue bonds and so how are we refunding those bonds is that a city revenue or DME customer revenue good afternoon council member back Terry don't eat the dental municipal electric item E is simply using existing revenue bond funds that we had in surplus in the development of the deck and we're using those bond funds to further our gas a gas securitization or fuel securitization at the plant this is part of this is the second phase of the weatherization efforts that we've taken since your since winter storm URI yeah that's all good my and I appreciate that we should do weatherization we've got a couple of those items my question was more is is this being are these bonds specific to ratepayers or the are they citywide when we refund them not refund them but when we paid the bonds back that's our back I'll just jump in their repair funds would go back go to those bonds okay that's that's great thank you that that's my quick answer appreciate that in G G yes on G this was the pre-qualified landscape or vendor list and I was just curious it it looked like we cut off at 89 and was that just the number of vendors or was 89 or cutoff hi this is Christine Taylor procurement director 89 was not the cutoff the cutoff was 80 so it looks like everyone on that applied for each of them was able to go to the pre-qualified list great that's appreciate that thank you and H H oh okay so I was just a little confused this was the neo-gov human resources suite and I was just a little confused as because we were on again off again whether whether these software packages are we're requesting additional funds and which funds sources I was unclear on that so if someone could just connect the dots for me sure I'm Crystal Babcock HR operations supervisor we did have this approved last year what we're asking today is SHI who we contract with did not renew their DIR co-op agreement so we're asking to do a different co-op agreement so it's the same amount we have paid one year so the man actually did decrease so I'm sorry it's not the same amount it did account for the decrease in the payment that we made last year and it's just to continue our contract for the additional four years but using that new co-op agreement okay so but otherwise the software and and utilization all those are really fundamentally staying the same yes they are okay cool awesome that answers that and my last question mr. mayor let's see this might require just a slight bit more answer and and I this is on I and this is about the the change of the change orders and change of scope on the major professional services and it seems like the the latest change is about 12,000 for roughly 12 additional hours of labor and and I you know I know that it's completely specious and overly simplistic to call that a thousand dollars an hour but can can someone walk me through why it's you know clarify that a bit for me and and why that's not a thousand dollars an hour sure I'll try to tell them that I'll run the Gita Prince of Plano Development Services the contract amendment that you have in front of you from our consultants matrix is a response to our need for additional you know work session meetings and analysis or prepare preparation responses that it takes into account their time for preparing for the meeting for the meeting and then also you know the need for addressing those any comments and questions that relate from that subject meeting now that the hours are spent between the principle principle on the project but also additional staff that's assigned to this particular update okay and and and I guess I'm you know if we did you know something probably that's you'll we you can confirm is probably also equally silly but we just said that well for every hour we didn't like homework if for every hour they were in class how many hours out of class you know for every hour that they're meeting and with additional scope if we just said there was two two hours of background work in their office that they had to do that's still three hundred and thirty three dollars an hour and so I guess I'm trying to wrap my brain around you know this this idea of multiple hundred dollars an hour up to a thousand dollars an hour depending on how much labor is involved does that make sense when I'm asking yeah yeah and I probably failed to mention I believe they put in also travel time actually anticipating that there may have there may be some travel involved in there as well but that's generally the the amount that's been submitted and I don't know if Tina's on the call of her in available help explain further but that's the budget proposal and we certainly can look into it more but we're we're willing to you know see what we can do to fit their time in to the meetings that we have coming okay I'm sorry no it's okay sorry to interrupt Tina Fergens direct deputy director of development services and planning director Ron is correct with his summarization of the contract and how that's put together and trust me we scrutinize this as well very seriously but it all takes into consideration all of the preparation work as Ron mentioned leading up to the various meetings that have been added that were not as part of the original scope in addition to their time during the meeting itself but then the post analysis that has to take place as well as we anticipate if there were any changes that are needing to be made to the conference of plan document as a result of those discussions so there's those elements that factor into it as well as the travel as Ron mentioned but then there are a couple additional staff they're working behind the scenes with this in addition any quality control check that they have on their on their part so collectively that's how the hours get assigned for the project and the value that's determined the depending upon the staff person and the number of hours assigned the rate is accordingly based upon that person's billable hour associated with that but collectively on these kind of projects when we add the meetings that we have throughout the month of Jan or excuse me throughout the month of February that's how we've we've come up with the cost associated with this contract amendment okay well I mean it's not for gargantuan amounts so I don't I don't want to be now wise and pound foolish on this so I won't but I guess as long as people are keeping their eyes it just it you know some things are sometimes truthy and not truthful and it just feels like a large amount per hour but as long as I guess staff are keeping their eye on things I will I will be supportive of this I guess thank you any other question I can hop in and answer really quickly on in that contract we do have the hourly rates per those five different positions that can work on the contract which have to be matched prior to payment so on average we've been paying about a hundred and thirty nine dollars per hour for every hour for this contract which which seems much more reasonable so that that gives me some some you know more sense of security thank you I appreciate that any other questions council member I had a question about a about the fire department creating and abolishing certain positions the question is are we forcing a budget increase on that in the future I'm not I don't have to know the details of which positions are being created and which ones are being eliminated in the fire department but how is that going to look for us for the budget in the future sure I can jump in customer this this is consistent with the FY 21 22 budget it's just codifying them the positions okay so we've already looked at that okay the other one was J it says something about the Mike mountain bike trail rental agreement and I was trying to decipher is is this gonna be a cost factor associated with this are we getting a fee from a company that's going to rent out bikes in the or mountain bikes in the park how is that gonna work for us mayor city council Gary pack and director Parks and Recreation we have Nikki sassness and Jason Barrow both online that oversee those areas we do have a fee that's in the proposed agreement a deposit of $200 $75 an hour for park rental as well as $150 mountain bike race fee that are associated to help offset any costs that are associated with staff support okay thank you and also ale it says that we're gonna go into a collaborative project with these various cities on an MOU is there any kind of cost associated with that mayor City Council we have Chris Iscato he's one of our park planners he's been really heading this up along with Monica Martin of our aquatics team and collaborating this with all the cities located around Lake Lewisville so I'll let Chris I answer that question there you go can you hear me yes yes perfect Chris Iscato park planner councilmember bird so there will be some costs associated with that in a later phase this MOU will help serve really that initiative with all the local communities for us to seek grants to get that at a local phase so there will be future launch sites that have been identified that there will be some sort of costs associated to that so it's going to be a shared cost with it with these cities or is there some type of profit or anything for the city right so this is this will move economic just economic impact just from a general consensus of the travel that comes with paddling trails as far as who's going to be maintaining those those will be respective to each community and they will be responsible for that maintenance cost so Highland Village Lewisville the colony they each have their own launch sites and they'll be responsible for their own launch sites okay thank you that's all ahead any other questions see none thank you very much appreciate it that takes us to our work sessions and just for the record nothing was pulled so no presentations as by proxy so our first work session will be get there sorry item a ID 2 1 2 7 8 0 receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding audit project 0 4 0 1 4 - facilities maintenance follow-up review hello Marion Council Madison Rorschach and City Auditor share my presentation and see that correct screen yes thank you awesome no problem all right so I'm gonna share our presentations our findings from this follow-up review so just as a reminder follow-up reviews are intended to provide information on what changes have been made in response to an issued audit and this review was based on the recommendations and management responses originally compiled in the facilities maintenance audit issued in June of 2020 the original audit evaluated the city's facility maintenance processes including maintenance program structure resource utilization and work order management as well as facility access security controls and the follow-up review found improvements to safeguards over tool assets and key card documentation in addition the department is currently in the process of implementing two new software systems to improve controls over facility access and work order monitoring so to begin the facilities department stores several specialized tools in its warehouse and on its technicians trucks that are used to maintain and repair the city's buildings the original audit found that there was no inventory record of these tools leaving them vulnerable to theft or misuse as there's no way to verify that all the department's tools particularly those that were valuable were not missing so since the audit the department has inventoried all of its tools and has created a record of all tools that cost more than $150 and so this record includes the make and model of each item as well as the value for all 21 tools that were identified however we also identified five tools that had been purchased after the initial inventory that were not on this list that should have been because they were purchased for more than $150 we also did verify that all 21 recorded inventory tools were we virtually observed them within the facilities department building so while this record has been created there are currently no formal processes describing how and when to conduct a periodic inventory review how to check out inventory tools and how to record tool acquisitions and disposals next the original audit found that documentation of facility access change request was not well maintained and was not always in that these change requests were not always approved for the city's policy so since the original audit the facilities department hired a consultant to assess the city's facility security access software this consultant concluded that the software system was unable to support the city's current and future operational needs and recommended that a new software be selected so as part of the software implementation facilities work with human resources and technology services to develop a plan to streamline the facility access process once the new software is implemented technology services will be taking over administration of the facility access software and facility access security groups will be simplified in the interim facilities has established shared email inbox to manage all security access change requests and approvals in the centralization of the supporting documentation should help with retention however will further evaluate security change request and approval documentation during the next follow-up review next the original audit found that the department's work order system seemed generally adequate but that some additional reporting capabilities regarding work order timeliness and equipment with repeat repair issues be further investigated to improve efficiency and effectiveness and based on their management response at the time the department believed that the work order system they had had these capabilities but they hadn't figured out how to use them since the audit the department has met with the original work order system vendor and determined that it did not have these reporting capabilities despite what they were told when they purchased this system and for this reason the department is currently reviewing other asset management work order systems that the city currently uses to see if one will work for their purposes going forward in the interim facilities relies on manual processes to ensure work orders are completed in a timely manner and to identify equipment with repeat repair issues finally the original audit found some issues with how p-card transaction documentation was uploaded into the city's p-card monitoring software and based on our review we found that these issues appeared to have been resolved so in summary we found that one of the recommendations issued as part of the original facilities maintenance audit was implemented and the remaining six were in progress these recommendations should be fully implemented with the implementation of the new work order system and new facility security access system and so based on this information we recommend that the project be closed until a second follow-up review is performed after these new systems have been implemented for at least three months so I will take down presentation okay thank you very much questions see none thank you very much medicine thank you that takes to item B which is ID 2 1 2 1 8 5 receive a report whole discussion giftstaff direction regarding tax exemptions for tax year 2022 good afternoon mayor city council Cassie Ogden director of finance let me share my screen and mayor can you see the screen yes thank you okay so you may recall during the FY 22 budget we had some discussions about the homestead exemption and so this is just a result of those discussions and coming to discuss possible changes for tax year 22 which which would be fiscal year 2023 budget so just briefly we're going to touch on some of the market values and the current exemptions compare our values to other cities and then discuss some options for increasing the homestead exemption so the the current city of Denton market values are 17.6 billion this is different than the taxable value of 14.6 billion that we reported in the in the budget during budget discussions as you can see the the categories these are the state category codes for each property and so the that the majority 51% are single family residents and of those there are 34,134 single family residents and about 61% or 20,729 have the homestead exemption currently so just wanted to show you our average taxable home value in comparison to some of our our other cities in the metroplex so you can see this for Denton our 275 361,000 value that we talked about during our last budget the M&O rate is what this funds general fund operations and then the debt rate funds our debt service payments so you see our total tax rate and then the the amounts broken out by the M&O rate versus the debt rate and for the total city tax bill and this is without a homestead exemption so you can see where we fall in line with other cities so circle back about the homestead exemption the city's homestead exemption allows homeowners living in their principal residence a reduction in assessed value used to calculate their city of Denton property taxes so currently our value is 0.5 percent or five thousand whichever is greater like I said there's 61 percent of single-family homes right now qualify for the exemption and again it does only apply to homes where the person is living in the home so commercial properties and lease properties are not eligible and per the tax code the exemption percentage may not exceed 20 percent homeowners must file for the for the exemption by May 1st each year and council can increase the exemption percentage but may not change that minimum value of five thousand per the tax code so we have until July 1st to adopt an ordinance if council decides to increase that homestead exemption to go into effect for tax year 22 which would be fiscal year 2023 and again you may recall this slide from our budget discussions for this last budget but again you can see our homestead exemption in comparison with some other cities in the area so again we're at that point five percent or five thousand whichever is greater the over 65 or disabled person exemption at fifty thousand and then the tax freeze we do have a tax freeze for that as well as our current tax rates so just wanted to give you an idea of the current value the property value for the exemptions and then what the tax amount would be so this is the number of exemptions that we currently have this for tax year 2021 the property value and then obviously how much taxable value that is or I'm sorry tax amount not taxable value so we discussed this again just briefly during the budget but just some options for increasing the homestead exemption what that would look like to the individual homeowner so I've included starting at two percent because one percent really doesn't do anything it really keeps you right at that five thousand dollar exemption so starting at two percent you can see the exemption for an average taxable value home of two hundred seventy five thousand three sixty one is about fifty five hundred dollars would be the exemption and then you can see the annual savings to the homeowner which would be roughly two dollars and sixty cents a month or thirty one dollars a year and then all the way up to the twenty percent which is the the the max allowable by the tax code so then the equivalent excuse me so the homestead exemption impacted general fund if we were to increase based on those same percent increases on the homeowners slide so starting at two percent it would be a revenue loss to general fund of about fifty seven thousand dollars and you can see the equivalent tax rate increase that would take to make up that fifty seven thousand all the way up to the twenty percent would be roughly a five cent tax rate increase for general fund just to make up that that lost revenue so seeking your direction today on what which option you would like to go with so option one no change keep the current point five percent or five thousand dollar minimum or option two is to increase to a desired amount and would need to know what that amount is and just if we aren't going to increase we would council needs to codify that the homestead exemption in our ordinance that needs to be provided to the Denton Central Appraisal District before July 1st and then that exemption like I've said would go into effect for the next tax year and with that I'll take an opportunity to answer any questions okay thank you Councilman McGuire thank you I have a few questions first I know you mentioned that 61 percent of single-family homes and Denton qualify for the homestead exemption our condos and townhomes and other multifamily units that are owner occupied also do they also qualify for the homestead exemption I believe they do but I can double-check on that and get back get a definitive answer for you okay thank you yeah my next question is probably more for Mac our mansion taxes legal in Texas help me I don't know what other mansion taxes on now a mansion tax the only place I can think of off the top of my head that that has Matt mansion taxes is New York where homes that are valued over a certain amount are taxed at a higher rate then no the law in Texas is that every property needs to be taxed equally and uniformly and in this case the law says that it has to be the same percentage applicable to every property so you couldn't tax different properties at different rates based on their value great thank you for that clarification how does the the law around an implementation of homestead exemptions compared to other types of property tax exemptions that that we have in the city like for example we have prop historic preservation exemption are those governed in similar ways if you're asking me yes each tax is a little bit unique and each one has been adopted separately and has a little bit different of a regime related with it so the historic preservations those are different there's a whole different setup and found elsewhere in our in our actual ordinances so yeah we'd have to look at each one because they all are a little bit different and how they're implemented adopted timing especially okay thank you that's all the questions I have for now I'll come back around with my direction once I've heard more councilor Davis thank you mayor so this last tax year we had just a little bit of a disagreement with the state and how we calculated our no new taxes rate or what we used to call the effective rate and so can we get a little bit of insight into how the homestead exemption ties in with when we start calculating that rate and then ultimately when we're having the budget discussion we've got the one slide that tells us well here's the the impact the general fund where do we see that impact when it when it comes to the budget discussion later in the year saw David pop up so I think he's going to answer that one sure you know it's a good it's a good question on the effective tax rate or they know new revenue rate it if we implement a change in the in the homestead exemption it is going to fill off the effective tax rate calculation as we go through that that process over the summer because when you're looking at the effective tax rate you're looking at the the taxable value and that's just going to be different year to year so they do in the calculation try to account for that but obviously something we have to lay out as we show you what that no new revenue rate is show you how the homestead is affecting it so it will make the calculation just slightly more complicated as we move forward what the net result will be that the no new revenue rate will be higher than if we didn't because the calculations gonna account for what Cassie showed on that that spreadsheet of the equivalent to get the same amount of revenue and then as far as the general fund I think it goes back to that table as well you know as we present a budget we're gonna say here's the amount of revenue that's needed for the general fund to fund these expenses and that tax rate is just gonna be higher for what's necessary if there's a if there's an increase in the homestead exemption hope that answers the question yeah it does thank you that's about the answer I expected and just want want us to kind of be eyes open to the the argument later on down the road you know well you're moving this you're moving this part of the spreadsheet and not that part of the spreadsheet and you're gonna make up the taxes somewhere you know from from taxpayers that if that effective tax rate or the the no new revenue rate is higher which is gonna have to be if we're taking a higher tax rate to collect the same amount of revenue as we did in the prior year we're kind of you know just have to be prepared for that argument that were we're taking from one hand we're giving with one hand and taking with the other thank you comes from Burt five for the exemption which could also include townhomes condos I want to find that out but my question is is do we take an active approach and notify these people that are are these homes or these owners that they qualify for the exemption and how do and do we also assist them in an easy way to qualify for those exemptions how do they know that all of the notification and the exemptions are handled through the the CAD so didn't central appraisal district homeowners have to apply for that exemption and they have lots of forms on their their website and lots of FAQs to assist and then they they'll also you know obviously can call and email okay so that's going to go through their central appraisal district so the city doesn't do anything more in terms of educational process for its citizens to be reminded or anything like that is there anything on the city website in this regard you all know that I'm aware of what you're aware of okay so that might be something to consider for them to be reminded that they may be able to qualify for the exemption if they look for it on the website and then to send it send them over to the appraisal district's website to do that that'll be sounds like that'll be pretty reasonable okay I think those will be that's the only question that I had thank you council council member that thank you mr. mayor so as I understand if we look at that slide 7 in your presentation and I'm not asking to pull it up but you can look at it to answer this question it looks like in over the last 10 years we went from 17 roughly 17,000 exemptions to 20,000 exemptions and yet at the at the same token we gained 34,000 people so we gained 3,000 exemptions and but 34,000 people or 40,000 people so it seems like is it am I misreading it or does it look like that the the level of exemptions being granted is sort of trailing off as a function of population so I did the math and it looks like it's about 1.7% on average per year so it was a total of 19% increase from 2011 to 2021 so I'm not sure on the population size because that side I didn't look at the population but yeah so which was a 1.7 increase I was a little confused it was we've increased over that that period 2011 to 2021 the number of exemptions have increased on average 1.7 oh okay that's my back if I could just jump in you know when you look at those number of exemptions you look at households so when to compare it to population you kind of want to take I think typically they like 3.5 or something like that to get to the population so it kind of changes that Delta a little bit when you're comparing that to the overall population increase okay and do do do we have a rough feel I mean so 3.5 so we're looking at a 10,000 households increase and 3,000 exemption increase if I'm doing that math right if it's about 30 or 40,000 people so you know you know I think this goes to the counselor birds sort of comment about like are people aware that this is available and and I do think it's mindful that there counselor Davis is is having us be mindful of where we're bouncing this but also I say I think it's worth noting for comparison that we're about to have a bunch of a 4 and 9 percent discussions about taxable deferred status on on various properties and that's sort of if you look at the comparables of it looks like the categories you were showing us or Cassie was showing us for comparable tax exempt status was on order of most of them were five there were some tens and a few 20s at the maximum cap out there so you know something like a 10% would be comparable to the the tax exempt status you know I know it's little apples the oranges comparing an apartment complex to a resident but the thing that concerns me about having a half percent rate is is we're we're increasing services demand need on the city that's that's comes with growth but are the the sort of services per household ratio increasing at the same rate that you know our tax rate or our total tax bills are going up so it feels like we might be over if you look at the split those trends were really just concerning for me if we're not really gaining a lot of exemptions and you know what was it roughly three three thousand more one point seven a year and then and then it looked like if you sort of calculate those exemption property tax amounts as a function of the the total values you know it looked like we're the the burden was over the last ten years was being shifted steadily onto the households you know it maybe it's marginal but it means that's the the relative percentage of tax burden is that my misunderstanding or are we kind of slightly shifting some of the effective tax burden onto households over the last ten years without doing the math right away I yeah no I don't want to say yes or no I have to pull it up and calculate well when I just kind of crudely did it and it looked like you know that back in 2011 it looked like let's see what is about a point one three percent drift towards residential if I'm doing my math right and so I if we're not if a household is not experiencing sort of a gain in service over those same ten years it would be maybe beneficial to think about I mean I don't want to do it to keep up with the Joneses but maybe it's it's reasonable to keep up with the Joneses to go to a say like a you know ten percent tax rate or just just to sort of ameliorate the impacts of our growth on residents that are not experiencing additional services and you know that's sort of in line with these tax deferred status for the apartments who are about to generate and so I think you know it also maybe doesn't jump us up fully to the to the cap but it lets us pilot whether you know something like what would ten percent would be you know roughly a twenty-fold increase but you two two and two million and change to the budget is that what you said two and a half million so about a point about two cents on the rate I think that's that's something that's reasonable experiment with to see if the the household are you know we're sort of compensating for the slower increase in services relative to the rapid increase in taxes or at least that's the way it feels to me I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and see if you know maybe I'm not thinking about something okay any other questions Councilor Armitage yes thanks everyone for those questions I'm my thinking is very similar to what it sounds like councilmember Bex is I'm leaning towards recommending a public hearing on a ten percent homestead exemption just wanted to confirm so when somebody buys a new house as soon as they move in are they eligible for that homestead exemption or does it apply as soon as they buy the house and it's clear that that's going to be their homestead I have a guess but I just want to be sure on the facts I should know that because I've just looked it up earlier but now I can't remember I can look it up really quickly okay thanks okay well she's going at any other questions report to Meltzer yeah I'm you know really listening for what my colleagues are are trying to accomplish and you know weigh in but just a couple of comments along the way is just subtracting the the tax credit affordable housing projects we're going to discuss tonight all but one of them are tax-paying entities so I don't know I mean in the case of one that would figure in and then the other thing I'm trying to weigh is I know that you know this body has struggled you know mightily with the with the feeling of the need to increase revenue when we had the last conversation related to taxes and I'm not really hearing you know sort of that concern in this discussion so I'm because I'm listening to understand what what holistically you're trying to accomplish and you know there's a lot of room to maneuver it's an odd kind of it's it's a kind of a nice optical thing to be able to say I cut taxes for somebody I mean you know who'd like to do that but it's a bit of an odd one because it's it only benefits those who find out about it and you know it's it's sort of not not clear you know how equitably the opportunity is shared so anyway I'm still listening if there's more to be said all right so I'm gonna get out of the way so that mine won't take long I'm against it for these reasons I would like to keep it the same because an increase in tax rate is gonna affect everyone an increase in tax rate is going to affect renters rates and I'm not willing to rent and Denton is already getting out of control homeowners and property owners that own multiple homes wouldn't get the the discount but would increase their tax rate which then would increase the rents that our citizens have to pay and I'm not willing to do that and then also Councilmember Davis touched on it I fear the repercussions of the state law that will require us to hold the rate or go you know I just I think it's an it's continue to educate for sure but I'm not willing to take a flyer which then prices people out of their home for rent because homeowners and apartment owners that rent are not going to eat the money no matter what you say as far as how much it is it's an excuse for them to raise the rent potentially even if it's if we would say oh it's only this much per month well that that's subject to the property owners interpretation of that and what they need to recoup and in this climate I'm not willing to do that to to home to renters so I'm gonna my input is let it remain the same and we'll continue to educate and increase people taking advantage of it and at the same time protect renters Councilman Davis thank you mayor I appreciate mayor pro tem and mayor Hudson looking at this kind of holistically because that's that's really my concern too it's difficult to know some of the answers to what Councilmember Beck was asking about we know anecdotally the overall cost of home ownership has gone up so there are anecdotally fewer people and there's some statistics available on this but fewer people are choosing to own own a home in large part because it's harder to own a home that used to be I know in my own experience as a homeowner you are made pretty aware of the exemption that the lending company has an interest in you having a lower tax payment because then you figure you can afford more of a monthly payment every year to pay your interest to them so you do get it at closing you do get a something if your realtors pretty decent in fact if your realtors worth anything at all you get something from them they say make sure you file this one piece of paper you just take it down to the county and or to the appraisal district and you get your exemption so I feel like most homeowners are pretty well educated especially if they finance their homes as to the existence of the exemption but we also know anecdotally that we have more multifamily available in Denton than we ever have before we know anecdotally that there are more investors buying single-family homes than we have had previously if you talk to anybody in the in the business of buying and selling single-family homes they'll tell you that they have more and more interest every year from investors who then turn around and rent that property because the barriers to homeownership are so high so that's what I read personally in those in those numbers of the number of exemptions we have each year and the way those interact it would be helpful to know how those numbers stack up with the number of single-family homes not just how many exemptions are taken each year but how many exemptions are taken each year assuming that almost every homeowner is going to be every owner occupied homeowner is going to be taking the exemption then what does that leave on the table we know in 2021 that was about 13,400 homes that didn't take the exemption presumably those are not owner occupied or at least the largest portion of those are not going to be owner occupied the thing that I'm really really concerned about though is it is twofold one part of what mayor Hutzpah talked about I'm all for increasing the homeowner exemption but it's not free money it comes from someplace it will be passed on to a different taxpayer and whether that's a taxpayer who rents the property as a single-family home or if that's we're shifting burden we have to raise the same amount of revenue presumably or maybe more so that shifts to commercial that shifts to multifamily we've talked many times before on this body about taking burden off of homeowner so that part of it is appealing to me that a tax burden would shift to commercial we talked about raising the commercial tax base for just that purpose I'm okay with that I'm I'm much less okay with shifting that burden to this the multifamily and because that that cost gets passed straight through and anybody who's ever rented for more than a couple of years in a row has gotten that letter from the apartment complex or from the landlord that says well taxes and insurance went up this year so we're taking your rent up five percent eight percent ten percent whatever even the very best landlords when they increase rent they've increased by the amount of the taxes and insurance went up that year so I could with a better understanding I might be able to get around to a ten percent but I'd really need to see the impact on the overall holistic tax picture and exactly what are we doing when we're pulling that one big lever what impact does that have elsewhere especially and it's the second thing I'm concerned about when it comes around to the tax rate discussion we can't on one hand say well here's something we're doing for the homeowners because we want to encourage owner occupied homeownership in Denton if that's one of our policy goals that's really the main reason to do something like this is because you want to give something to owner occupied homeowners that other people don't get but on the other hand we're going to increase the tax rate that affects everybody and by the way not just because not just to the effective tax rate because that is now higher but also well we got to make up that revenue somewhere else so we're gonna increase beyond that which is the conversation we had this last budget year those are my concerns I'm not at all a hard no but I have some I really need to have a better picture of holistically what this means for our overall tax burden on different sectors some historical data might be helpful if we had the same chart for that we have a slide three for like the last I don't know how long that might be helpful to know okay Cassie do you have an answer for councilmember Armitage yes so you can qualify for the homestead exemption if you occupy the property on or before January 1st of the year that you apply Mac did tell me there was a new bill that was passed that the homeowner can apply for the homestead exemption at any time okay Councilman McGuire thank you um I Mayor Hudspeth said most of what I was thinking my my priorities here are I don't want to see the city lose revenue I think we're already not collecting enough revenue to meet the needs of the community and I think that that avoiding revenue revenue loss is extremely important and if we're going to raise the homestead exemption without lowering revenue then yeah that that tax burden is going to have to be borne by by the property properties that are not owner occupied which is going to result in rents going up and in terms of encouraging homeownership you know I think that yeah we're all in agreement that that we want to encourage homeownership making it cheaper to be a homeowner isn't going to make it easier for people to make that leap one of the biggest obstacles for folks in purchasing a home is saving up enough for a down payment and if rents keep going up from where they are that's going to be an even bigger barrier to homeownership so I would be in favor of maintaining the current homestead exemption rate in the interest of of managing the cost of living Councilman Burke yes sir I appreciate the mayor and Councilmember McGuire as well as Councilman Davis view on these things and I wholeheartedly agree with that I am very concerned about and I think I've even spoken on on the the city having a almost 50/50 split in homeownership and rental which is very you know it's just so unbalanced that our city is turning out to be that way hopefully we can have some impact on those numbers there but I do agree that we should let this remain the same so we can manage at least and take care of our folks that are living in those multi dwellings like that thank you thank you Catherine but thank you mr. mayor so I think we're touching all of these points and we seem to be coming to different conclusions Councilor Davis mentioned slide three and I've used that a lot in my thought process you know and Council bird is is you know it's one of the drums she beats that we're at you know you know almost 50% rental but so if we're going to incentivize we do and Councillor McGuire touched on this we do have to look at the the level of services that we're providing per household and and say okay are these keeping up with the times are we slowly bleeding the the sort of services we provide over time for residences and can we look at a way you know we're constantly searching for ways to make home ownership not home renter or or rental contracts more affordable we're actually decrying that we're saying oh we wish you could get into a home and but we're slowly losing up the cost of what it costs relative to other forms of residences to compensate for those and so it seems to me a reasonable approach to to try to incentivize home ownership the same way we're incentivizing other aspects and yes we absolutely will have to there's sort of this I think I hear an undercurrent of well we're gonna have to we're gonna have to make up the revenue somewhere and and I absolutely agree with that we will have to make up the revenue somewhere and and I'm not gonna shy away from what councillor Davis said it absolutely will shift to the let's see what is it commercial is 27% multifamily is 13% agriculture and other land uses are 5% from slide 3 but residences are 52% so it we absolutely will shift the burden of the tax burden to these other categories I'm not shying away from that I think that's a reasonable approach to sort of looking at the services that you expect per household the services you expect per person I think that's you know I'm absolutely completely comfortable with with shifting that burden and and while I agree that councillor Davis is right that the what the two cents will will be coming back around in the in the overall revenue rate it won't you think about okay the homestead exemption will be based on that final rate so you won't get the same you know a hundred and twelve dollars or whatever the number was it might be a hundred nine dollars for the difference in going up to ten percent but the you will see a proportionally larger discount on those residential homes than you do on other sectors are of our economy and so I I'm comfortable with asking these other sectors of our economy to you know we're supposed to be growing so that this is the tide that floats all boats and and you know the reason we allow this sort of crazy rapid growth everywhere is so that you know everybody's floated with that but if if one sector is slowly over time paying more and more and more then I think it's occasionally appropriate to rebalance and ask is that is it reasonable to rebalance and and look at the proportions different sectors have and we don't have the tools Texas doesn't give us the sort of tools what we do is incentivize certain behaviors and so a homestead exemption is essentially an incentivizing 380 grants are incentivizing small business grants are incentivizing so in this case this is a home ownership incentivization grant that we are providing and saying we think it's important that we reduce that that rate of rental and make it easier for homeowners to be homeowners and yet still maintain commensurate services so I'm completely comfortable with you know commercial going to you know 28 and 29 percent of the budget and and multifamily you know going to 14 percent of the budget or something like that I know the argument will be made that you know as we just heard that the rates will go up we heard that a bunch of times there are there are market forces on the apartment complexes just like there are market forces on the homes so I think that it's it's appropriate to look at your economic sectors and say you know do we have the right balance at this time and are you getting the same proportion of services over time and and I I think that looking at something like this would at least allow us to explore whether we're doing it in the right way councilmember yes I won't say much other than to say I concur 100% with councilmember back's approach to this I too am okay shifting some of these burden on to the commercial sector I think that residents just residents in general are paying a disproportional disproportionate amount of no taxes in relation to their services and this is a way to shift that to the commercial sector so I am perfectly okay with that and I would really like to see like I said a public hearing on a 10% homestead exemption where that way we could hear from everybody affected what they think about this and those council members who might be on the fence and I and I realized some of those voices that I just heard were hard nose but I also heard some at least a little bit of ambivalence could be would be helped by hearing from members of the public in a public hearing so again I support a tent a public hearing on a 10% homestead exemption this is kind of comes down to our stewardship role for me there's no question in my mind that in general people want more services and they want to pay less in tax and you know as far as like is it a good thing to encourage homeownership I guess it's also a good thing to encourage rents not to be high it's also a good thing not to discourage business you know I think that the kind of cross-subsidy thing here is a very unclear impact in terms of the you know total benefit on the community and I I don't think we I don't think we are doing really clearly and a great service in total by kind of putting our thumb on the scale you know on the different kind of ways people need to participate in local economy so I'm believing it even where it is okay thank you I would like to add to my direction I would like to add a second voice to councilmember Armentier's request for a public hearing on this topic I'm still at a no for the time being but I hear this this conflict between the desire to keep to manage our rising rents with I think a really legitimate desire to want the commercial sector to carry more of its weight and I think that maybe there are solutions that we can come up with that involve you know offering other types of exemptions to affordable multifamily housing you know following you know perhaps the the the type of template that we see in the historic preservation tax exemption but that's you know obviously not not a conversation for today but I'm seconding the the request for a public hearing okay is there anyone else seeing none thank you very much appreciate it great presentation takes us to item C which is ID 2 1 2 4 8 0 receiver report and hold discussion give staff direction regarding the proposed street sign topper program for the city of Denton good afternoon mayor and city council members Cameron Robertson historic preservation officer and principal planner let me share my screen real quick you all see my screen yes thank you wonderful with me I also have Daniel Kramer deputy director of operations and James Andrews traffic operations manager so we will be taking you through the proposed streets on top of a program and our presentation will be broken into four brief sections first a background about the program and how we got to where we are now a general overview of the standard operating procedure and design standards and lastly the council direction so as you all are aware we are here today as a result of a one-minute pitch by council member bird made in September 2021 the idea of a street sign topper program first began in 2018 with ongoing conversation between resident Randy hunt and staff however this was paused due to the pandemic but then conversation was resumed in June 2021 by early August council member bird joined the team and it was determined that Solomon Hill would serve as the pilot program as of late September after staff met with council member bird and mr. hunt drafts of the SOP and design standards were started then on November 11th a community meeting was held at the MLK junior recreation center so getting into our standard operating procedure as you all read in your packet the proposed standard operating procedure is a seven-step process which will guide the neighborhoods through the application design and funding process which currently provides two options currently our two funding options are solely neighborhood funded or the the city's neighborhood project matching grants next we have our design proposed design standards so the city of Den traffic department follows the manual on uniform traffic control devices also known as MUT CD and this kind of sets those minimum standards and provides guidance and traffic control devices across the nation in terms of the design design standards staff also use best practice cities such as Fort Worth Carrollton as well as out-of-state cities such as Charlotte North Carolina and design standards were cross-checked with city standards and code right here we do have a approved third-party vendors list so these are vendors who have worked in our neighboring cities who have done street sign topper programs however neighborhoods would not be limited to this list this is just to provide for ease for those neighborhoods as they get started so staff is seeking direction from City Council on three things today the first is is staffs proposing via following eligible neighborhoods for participation in the program the second is the non HOA's and non neighborhood associations and special districts minimum 51% of favorable favorable responses for participating in the program and lastly is which entity shall be the primary funding source neighborhoods or city and please note also the program as it grows and as it is implemented there are additional changes that could be made to the SOP's as well as the program eligibility and we can stand for any questions okay thank you questions for staff in direction councillor Davis I just had a quick question I was looking over the guidelines and in one place it seemed pretty clear that these would not have to be necessarily reflective you know they don't have to be up to quite the same standard as a traffic sign and construction but they they needed to be clear obviously but then in the I guess what I'll call the spec sheet where it talks about measurements and it gives an example of a sign topper it does call for reflective vinyl material so can we just kind of kind of clarify or or if it comes further if it comes before us again in the future could we make sure that there's not a disagreement there between the two that we that require it to be reflective or not yes this is Dana Kramer deputy director of operations yes we will double check I think we just missed that in the wording on that but we'll get that fixed okay and I guess by way of direction I'll start with I'll start with funding I prefer this to be a neighborhood program I like that we talked about and included in the background the grant funding other neighborhood matching grants that are available I was looking at the prices for you know say 20 signs that was in the provided example quote I think that's I think that's reasonable to expect that a neighborhood would have some buy-in the other reason why I prefer the neighborhood funding is I'd really like neighborhoods to have you know control over this program obviously their city posts their city street signs the city's gonna have the final word on what goes up there from a safety perspective but if we're going to expect that if we want people to really buy into this program and be a part of it and take care of these these sign toppers I think the neighborhoods taking taking the lead and the design and paying for these would be the best way to go you know I'm torn on the the direction you're asking for in one and two because I'd really like it to be as permissive as possible if there's a neighborhood that's not quite so well defined as to have an HOA or if it's too large an area that they don't really have an HOA that's got a lot of excuse not HOA neighborhood Association if they don't have a neighborhood Association that likes I'm for instance aware of one neighborhood that has a lot of people in it a lot of very involved people and their their neighborhood Association tends to be the same you know five or six people my neighborhood Association very vocal very involved everybody shows up to the big meetings but you know it's one or two neighbors that really take the lead in things so I'd like it to be available to as many different neighborhoods as possible but then when you get down to questions of name and design that's where I start thinking about that 51% favorable responses so I'm wondering if there's not some some hybrid where a small group of neighbors can initiate and request you know say a neighborhood Association or a handful of people that live in the neighborhood and kind of set the basic parameters and then in the geographic area there's a mechanism for sending a mailer out and asking people for their for their input so you don't necessarily have to go door to door to door and get 51% of the adjacent property owners to agree but you could pull them and get their input and if there's not opposition to it go forward does that does that make sense I hope I'm making sense no that makes sense and just to kind of piggyback on what you're saying is that that's what we are kind of hoping was that 51% because we didn't want neighborhoods to feel that they had to be registered as an HOA or necessarily as a neighborhood Association we are trying to provide neighborhoods to have more neighborhoods to be eligible but we did have to quantify in some way because if you have less than 50% that are in opposition so then maybe you need to change your neighborhood boundaries rather than the boundaries that are being proposed but that is something that as if the program were to be implemented starting you know today that is something that could you know grow or change as more neighborhood and community members are involved with this process. Okay, Councilmember McGuire. Thank you I concur with the first part of Councilman Davis's direction I agree that I want to see eligibility as broad as possible and that I that I want to see the communities the neighborhoods the people who live there taking the lead on design however I would like to see the city funding these signs the city already funds wayfinding signs which serve a similar purpose of I mean they're a little bit more functional but they also help help to establish that sense of place and sense of community which I think is a big part of what we're going for in the sign topper program so I think that the city should pay for it for that reason. Also although you know the program isn't restricted to Southeast Denton I think we need to be sensitive to the fact that Southeast Denton is going to be the first neighborhood impacted by this and and they're the ones that are really spearheading this and that's a low income community and I think that it's it's incumbent on on the city to to provide that funding and provide that support. Okay Councilman Berg. I'm so excited to come back and talk about this particular topic I know that Mr. Hunt is very excited about this finally coming forth in front of us again I know he's tried this before so I was very pleased that he asked me to to join him in this process. I I was trying to to understand and have the audience understand what is a registered neighborhood and are HOA's considered or is a HOA considered a registered neighborhood or all neighborhoods that are registered HOA's. Well tell us a little bit about that what does a registered neighborhood mean and how does a neighborhood go about becoming registered? That's a great question so if a neighborhood wants to be registered with the City of Denton and recognized with the City of Denton as an HOA or a neighborhood association there is a form that they can fill out on our neighborhood planning website or on our page on the City of Denton page and that form can be emailed to Ron Manguita with this planning division so there is a way to be registered with the city that is just meaning that they're recognized by the city we do have that paperwork on file but as stated in our SOP we do have the options of you know non HOA's or neighborhood associations. Those can be considered becoming registered neighborhoods as well. The other thing is I would like to see the city I mean the neighborhoods have an opportunity for the matching grants and have the neighborhoods to be responsible for the cost of this project with some caveats there if they can't if it's a low-income neighborhood certainly I think that the city could assist those neighborhoods as much as possible and we're not talking about all there's a lot these huge neighborhoods where we're talking about I don't know a hundred street signs but most neighborhoods are at least a district one for sure are they're they're intimate type neighborhoods they're they're boutique type neighborhoods so they're kind of small I like to see that and also on the design heading up the design I think they each neighborhood should have an opportunity to work their own design but again I think that the city should also have those boundaries for the design process so that is my take on that. Thank You Mayor. Thank You. Councilman Beck. Thank You Mr. Mayor. I think there's an opportunity I hear a lot of the same statements in in different directions so far so I think there's this opportunity for for consensus that we can get to I think clearly so far I councilor seemed to be enthusiastic about some level of neighborhood branding and signage and you know I don't expect that to discontinue as the rest of the councilors say their piece and it seems like people are just sort of concerned about who's funding and and and how it gets funded and I think there's an opportunity here to sort of thread the needle and that is to say you know if if you are a group we the city will fund your your sign with these certain restrictions that is described in in the in the presentation and have that sort of be sort of this is this is a minimal standard that you know is available to all registered neighborhoods and the city can put you know extra you know requirements to become a registered neighborhood and and if you'd like to branch beyond that if you'd like to go more you go bigger and and deeper up to the whatever limits are at the you know stated by the MUTCD then then you know then you need neighborhood funding so it's an opportunity to to generate community spirit and and and a fundraising project like we do some of our art projects maybe you can get some art grants for some things you know it's not it's not impermissible to double dip depending on what we're doing and so there's an opportunity here to say this is a minimum standard the city will fund to registered neighborhoods and historic neighborhoods and other categories and then if you want to be broader than that and and bigger and bolder than that then you you achieve the funding to go bigger and broader would be my recommendation my direction. Okay thank you Mayor Martin Melther. Thank you that's interesting Councilmember Backerman I'm not quite sure you know what the sort of bigger and broader would be but in general I would align with the sentiments of I think that we all share that placemaking is great supporting neighborhoods and giving them as many ways as possible to you know participate it's great I think placemaking is not just a benefit to the neighborhood I think placemaking as Councilmember McGuire indicated is you know kind of a city value just like we have the wayfinding signs and you know the amount of money we're talking about I think it's $2,000 for Solomon Hill I don't know how many neighborhoods in total we imagine participating but it's you know it's just it's just not a very great amount of money unless you know you're gonna you can persuade me otherwise and and making it a barrier you know be great if it needed to be a big fundraising thing but it's just I think it's I lean more to the just empowering neighbor to sit together and agree on an identity and a representation and do that and you know frankly on the historical aspect it is kind of a bad look to to you know make parts of Southeast didn't pay it what it what it goes back to in my mind is I don't know if everybody here knows that the streets of Southeast Denton were unpaved into the 1960s and City Council then agreed to pay but only if the owners on each side of the street you know would pay a paving tax let's not do that let's not do that okay counselor um yes so I agree with councilmember Meltzer that the expenses minimal for the city the benefit huge for the whole city not just the neighborhoods so I support it being a city funded program I approve this program I think that it's important that each neighborhood should get to choose the image that they want you know to represent their neighborhood on the signs and as far as specific protocols I think that it's important that neighborhood that staff get together with with neighborhoods and by consensus agree on design protocols so I don't want you know those protocols to be handed to you know neighborhoods top-down I want it to be just like this was a bottom-up project that came from members of the public I would like to see the development of that product those protocols developed in the same way I'm wondering is there are there any callers did did mr. hunt call in to answer questions Rachel did anyone call in to answer questions on this item or one moment please good good any other questions counselor cancer cancer back thank you mr. I just want to clarify that I am for city funding I was just for city funding plus so got it okay counselor Dave all right I'll come back to you counselor Davis I think we're missing two important things the first is the community matching grant that if we're talking about something that cost fifteen or sixteen hundred dollars that the there is city money available for community projects and this would fall under that so we already have a grant program for that the other thing that we're missing is something that council member Beck touched on that really resonated with me and this is not to to say I don't also appreciate the sentiments of the the folks who were for total city funding neighborhood ownership of these signs I think is key if a neighborhood puts forward a design and puts forward a name and it is their money that is making this happen they get to be within very broad like councilmember Beck said very minimal broad safety based standards right they get to be the arbiters and whatever structure that neighborhood has and whatever polling mechanism we use of what goes on that sign we've all been to neighborhood meetings a number of us have been involved with neighborhood associations it's not always a consensus certainly not at the very first meeting about what the neighborhood feels about certain things there will be some well meaning well-intentioned person from the northeast of Denton who wants to put an idiot's hill sign topper on their street that's going to come up and that neighborhood is going to have to decide what goes on these signs someone in the southeastern part of Denton of the main part of Denton is going to say well this neighborhood is called Southeast Denton and someone else will say this is called Solomon's Hill and somebody else will say no this is like the Fred Moore Park neighborhood there will be disputes about and not necessarily you know you know really negative disputes there will be questions to be answered about how these signs go up who puts them up we've said in our guidelines that belongs to the neighborhood the ownership of this program I think needs to reside with the neighborhood and I think that means matching from the city perhaps but neighborhood ownership of the signs just as we have in the as we have in the guidelines and if we don't give them ownership of the sign let me put it this way if we use city money to give a neighborhood association city property something that's bought with taxpayer money not through a grant program but just an outright gift there should could be significant issues with that it's not a large amount of money but you can't gift things from the city coffers so I prefer the buy-in I prefer the neighborhood matching grant get some funds from the neighborhood get some funds funds from the city through a structured grant program that doesn't run into those gift problems and and I have to say as much as I don't like the look that councilmember Meltzer described that well we're gonna we're gonna give you something you got to give us something first I also don't like the look where we assume that a neighborhood doesn't have the wherewithal to to come up with something that enhances their neighborhood where they don't I don't like this we make a lot of assumptions about Southeast Denton and what they're able to do and what they're able to afford and the kind of folks that live there and I'm very uncomfortable with that I would rather look at this holistically even knowing that Southeast Denton is going to be the first one out of the gate knowing that this has to be a policy that fits the whole city and not making assumptions about one particular neighborhood and what they can afford okay councilmember oh no wait please council member mayor mayor real quick just mentioned that no mr. hunts not on the line and usually we don't have speakers for our work session but I understand her wanting to see if he was there since he's been a major part of this but he was not on the line yeah I wanted to I thought that was the answer that we don't do it but I didn't want to speak out of turn council member okay good okay councilmember armature yeah I just wanted to add briefly that you know in response to the idea of you know this possibly looking like a gift from the city to neighborhoods I think it's I see sign toppers as like streetlights and street signs that just have the name of the street on it which are for the public all of the public whoever passes by not owned by the neighborhoods so you know neighborhood and this is just the way we function as a city and we provide services as a city so we don't have individual neighborhoods pooling you know putting their money together to fix cracks in the road we have we put all of our money together in in a pot and we as we serve the greater public good with that public money so I just wanted to provide that perspective and to say that you know my decision has nothing to do with how much you know neighborhoods might be able to afford or not it's just simply a matter of we consider these sign toppers a public good that's good for the city of Denton then we you know again not just for individual neighborhoods it's good for tourism it's good for people driving around walking around it's good for getting people to you know see Denton as as a place where they can raise their families and be proud of their neighborhoods so if we really do you see it as a greater public good I think that city funded okay mayor for tomorrow sir yeah thank you I mean that you know the everyone's making points worth discussing but I would say that if any it's a gift from the neighborhood of their identity and expression to the city you know kind of sharing that identity out that helps make a place and I just you know one other comment it's what I what I'm suggesting is that the city funds it not just because of one neighborhood I'm saying all any neighborhood and I would point out that if you are in an officially recognized historic district the city puts the signs up nobody asked anybody to kick in you know for that is it's part of placemaking it's part of making Denton better okay one more time councilor Davis thank you mayor I just want to be clear on where we have points of agreement where we don't I agree with what councilmember Armenter said about if we structure the program that way that these would be a city service that's offered to the neighborhoods that is not what is being presented today in this work session was being presented today in this work session is a set of guidelines that includes neighborhood ownership and maintenance and responsibility for the signs from soup to nuts designing it getting them made putting them up replacing them if they're blown away in a storm or vandalized that is what's being presented today if that is the program that I think it's on the neighborhoods to take ownership of the program if they're and have the signs produced to the specifications that are very minimal in the guidelines but at the price point they prefer at the vendor they prefer all of those things there's even a question from council if if they're limited to these vendors but if the neighborhoods are going to have control over it as I think they should then I think they need to pay for it if the city's gonna pay for it I think we have to structure it differently the city will get them produced the city will put them up for you and then it'll be like the street lights and the cracks in the road and all those kind of things there are two different things I don't think there's a hybrid option where we get to use taxpayer money to pay for something that benefits this small subset and we say by the way you choose where they go you choose exactly what it says and what this neighborhood is going to be called and and also you're responsible for maintenance when they get blown away by a storm or vandalized I don't think there's a hybrid I think we choose it's a city program or it's a neighborhood program facilitated by the city okay so I'll say this I'm gonna pick up where councilmember Davis left off and say this I I'm in favor for the reasons he stipulated of making a minor adjustment that the I'm fine with the city picking up the cost but to his point my note said all rights reserved the city then takes over that kind of ownership we have a sign maker those sort of things but I think a caveat to that would be the neighborhood would then be on the hook for replacements if there's one that gets blown away or damaged or painted then then the neighborhood would then have to cover that cost and then also I think for me I think it's let me get back to your questions but I think those those are the key components of it so I don't think it's fully baked for me as far as kind of where the cost and where those lines are drawn but but the other question you had I remember now with respect to the neighborhoods involvement I do think there's sweat equity because I'd love for them to join our world of trying to find consensus so I like that component of the 51% there because councilmember Davis is spot-on it is going to be a process for sure and and that's okay and I guess that's my other note is I want this to be as turnkey and least as little staff interaction as possible because staff has a ton to do as is and interjecting themselves into this is not going to be good it took us two three years to get to this point the pandemic in the middle of that but I just don't think it's wise to and so it needs to be turnkey as humanly possible sweat equity from the neighborhood in that they have to generate whatever the 51% whatever that's measured by going door-to-door neighborhood meeting whatever they have to do to to get that consensus for design and then I think the other component would be if there's if there's samples needed then that's where I think the neighborhood also so I think the neighborhood should have to pay pay if it's lost or - if there's samples needed for presentation I don't think the city should be in the business of printing out a whole bunch of replicas I think you can get that done it you know anyone anyone that's leading that meeting can go to Kinko's and get that printed and have all those things done internally as part of their presentation to generate their 51% so I'm okay with the city funding putting up as long as we return return all rights reserved the neighborhood simply has to get us designed finalized it's almost like when you go when you go print something that you sign off saying hey this is it we're gonna produce what you gave us here's the signatures off we go and if there's a typo if there's any of those things then then that that's where we get into that's gonna cost the neighborhood to replace it and some some components around that so I know that's not exactly the direction you're looking I think we need it'll probably have to come back if there's I don't know what the numbers are I'll leave that to staff to filter through yes is there someone taking notes that could give us State of the Union well I hope that staff is taking the notes that I was just gonna ask for point of clarification as to you know making sure we have enough for council members who are focused in the right direction so staff has clear direction moving forward yeah so let me let me at the risk of getting yelled at I'll give you what I have so council member back is is I think said he's for the city funding it and broad as possible I think I could be wrong there counselor bird broad as well neighborhood grant I think and she'll correct me from wrong McGuire broad city funded totally Davis neighborhood funded via the grant program it also explored it being more broad mayor pro tem Meltzer more broad and city funding it completely councilman armature city complaint funding it completely and as broad as possible that's what I have so yeah so I have four that that that say go ahead have city fund it and what we'll do is try to take it from there as city funding and have Cameron come back with sort of here's what we're going to do it'll be city-funded here's the parameters is that okay with count yeah counselor so for me so I like part of that but I would like to see you know staff in kind of coming up with those parameters before coming back to us reaching out to the neighborhoods and getting that input and coming up with those parameters before you know before they come back to us so that we don't have a you know preconceived idea that we're then handing to neighborhoods does does that make sense yes I think the staff can come back with Tina you did you had a question yes I just wanted to point out the councilmember armature that staff did try to receive feedback from the neighborhoods we started with Southeast Denton Neighborhood Association to get their feedback and had some challenges getting neighborhood feedback of the limited feedback we did receive the primary concern was regarding costs there was no concerns expressed regarding just the overall standard operating procedures okay thank you and thank you for doing that anyone else great thank you very much appreciate the presentation that concludes item C takes us to item D which is ID 2 2 1 9 0 receive report holders hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the city of Denton inclement weather policy and while staff pulling that up I just wanted to tell the council in in concert with the city manager we have drafted a draft declaration of emergency from the mayor and so I am going to review that after our meeting today and finalize it and get that prepared for the pending inclement weather so just to make sure we're all on the same page that we're working on a draft that would then allow us to have emergency shelters should the other spaces fill up we can we'll be able to have something prepared up and running and the city manager she touches on her and maybe the presentation will touch on how we're going to pull together staffing but it'll have the components we need during this this emergency but that'll come from my office as soon as we can finalize we just ran out of time meetings get in the way so to that I'll turn it over to who's ever presenting thank you mayor Ryan Adams chief of staff I'll also be joined by Danny Shaw I was community services Jennifer Becker with libraries Gary Packham with parks and Bob Martinez with emergency management so let me pull a presentation real quick and if you guys can tell me if it is full screen on your end yes yes excellent so just to give a bit of background on this presentation staff received direction on January 11th to bring forward a discussion item for council to receive a report and discuss augmenting or modifying the inclement weather policy this was subsequent to a two-minute pitch by council member armature and within that that pitch request was to consider an overnight or 24 hour inclement weather station as part of the policy and to discuss changing the definition of inclement weather that considers heat index or windshield it was also brought up that are pardon me the the pitch received consensus to move forward to the work session I do want to mention that this work session was prepared and really focusing on long-term commitments to 24 hour stations under the policy and I know it's it's very it we might kind of look at this week's weather and try to mix in a little bit of a discussion on emergency sheltering under an emergency situation emergency conditions this presentation considers non-emergency 24-hour stations so I did want to make that clarification to the council so continuing on with the background we do have an inclement weather policy that was adopted in 2019 the policy is a general definition of inclement weather and points out which city facilities would service inclement weather stations in the winter those would be cooling pardon me warming stations in the summer cooling stations it provides for public outreach notification gives general rules of conduct for those facilities and also outside of heat and cold it does provide for use of indoor locations for any outdoor events that have to be moved during inclement weather and I think it's going to come up at some point in this presentation maybe in the form of a question but I did want to note that we did open up a shelter for winter storm URI and that was done after we had actually a the mayor had signed a declaration of disaster so that was not done under the inclement weather policy that was done more for under the auspices of a disaster declaration so our approach with this policy again the policy it gives us structured and consistent guidelines and it does really complement allows our city resources to complement the existing community resources such as overnight shelters that already exist so you are probably very well familiar with the image to the left this is our flyer that we use to communicate the warming stations that are available to residents in the city of Denton we do have two components of this flyer the first points out which community providers are open and when they are open we do have our daily bread Salvation Army and MKOC Salvation Army NKOC being open seven nights a week and we also share the city's daytime warming stations we have five rec centers three libraries and eight fire stations that are open during the daytime the hours vary a little bit from location to location but they all are open during the day so we did want to compare the community resources with the city resources and the blue is when our community partner overnight shelters are open the turquoise whatever color that is in the middle maybe more of a green I'm colorblind so forgive me that's when the city daytime warming stations are open and that overlap you see is when they cross paths and we wanted to just demonstrate visually for council that in in setting up our daytime warming stations there is at this point in time no gap in service at any point during the day there is at least one facility in the city of Denton that is available for anyone to take refuge from the weather that is a little bit more pronounced we have more overlap on weekdays a little bit less on the weekends but there's always something open for someone and oftentimes multiple locations open for someone particularly in the middle of the day and particularly at night so for council members who aren't terribly familiar we did want to point out the services that are provided by our community partners they do provide those basic needs food water beds but they do also provide enhanced services case managements legal services the goal being to get people on the path toward housing and that's very important for our continuing and ongoing shelters that they really not only provide the basic needs but they they try to transition people out of any state of homelessness that they may be in so I do want to mention as well to the council that in discussing a 24-hour warming station we do want to remind the council that the loot 288 building is intended to be a one-stop shop of services a 24/7 365 operation that will actually increase the number of beds available in the city it'll actually be and I did the math it'll be a net gain of 57 beds that will be available in addition to the ones that are available now and that does not include any hotel rooms that the city could procure in the future and make available and it doesn't include if you can see my cursor but there's a little bit of flex space in there to where if there was an emergency situation we would have more capacity more room for additional beds that flex you space will be very handy in times like this week where we might have an above-average amount of people seeking shelter the planned opening for this facility is December in 2022 so the idea would be by this time next year we would have a whole new facility operating all throughout the day every day of the year available to the residents and citizens then and again kind of providing some some preliminary background information we did want to provide a summary of the impact of recent weather and we've done this via email for council for the last several weeks this information is up to date insofar as all the way through to Friday our posting date for the agenda for our warming stations we did throughout the month of January through last Friday we received about 28 individuals in our libraries 11 in our rec centers and we did not report having any any individuals visit our fire station warming stations and we did a little bit of math on the reported numbers from our overnight shelters as well and our hotel rooms so as a reminder to council we do have 95 available beds at MK OC 10 hotel rooms and 40 beds with the Salvation Army to at this point in time we have not reached capacity we did include the averages for the council but I'll mention on our busiest day which was January 20th we still had about 30 beds available on our busiest day in January so I'm actually going to turn it over to Danny for this slide just to to walk council through some of the reasons why people may not seek shelter thank you Ryan yes because we wanted to kind of just demonstrate what some of the rationale is for some folks who may not seek shelter and to explain that additional sites may or may not address these barriers obviously the inability to bring in possessions to keep them safe being able to stay with partners some misunderstanding about if pets can be brought in where most of the shelters do allow this transportation access getting to and from the shelters and accessing other services when shelters are not open there's also some lack of understanding about how shelters are flexible to people who may have work or other activities being available to access the shelter when they open some perceptions that shelters are full that comes up quite a bit and then some of the mental health issues and behavioral health issues that are that affect this population specifically such as PTSD being in large group settings and then substance use it that may impact people's desired access shelter so those are just some of the issues that we were wanting to bring forward for your for your thought process as well Danny I think it's worth noting that each individual is unique and and some cases it may not be just one of these it may be several that or even a perception of these that would prevent someone from seeking shelter so it it's very much an individual condition or it's up to the individual which may apply to them so it's sometimes it's difficult to to to classify things into one category or another I seem to be frozen there we go I guess skipped one so this is where we'll walk council through the options available to them we'll discuss in depth what it would take to develop a 24-hour inclement weather station as a city service we'll also have a little bit of information on an alternative option of supporting or enhancing our existing resources and then we could also take any other direction from council that that they may seek to give us afterwards what we would do is based on the direction of council and we will walk through this we would plan on adapting the policy accordingly including adjusting any temperature thresholds so we have broken our discussion down into four different areas facilities services personnel and supply so I'll try to walk through these briefly just to save time but I do want to hit on some key points as we walk through each category so that the chief decision in deciding where we might place a 24-hour weather station is what facility to use site selection is going to be very important the location has to be accessible people have to be able to to get there easily and that's from a transportation perspective it also has to be expect accessible from an ADA perspective people once they get there they need to be able to access the facility and use it including restrooms showers are ideal though that might not be available in every facility and the facility importantly has to have adequate space to where people aren't bunched together that is important under any conditions but especially during a pandemic we want to spread out and use as much space as possible also the the facility has to have sufficient HVAC electricity utilities to support that additional use so we did mention space but I also want to add on that it's not just about beds it's also about areas to provide first aid if there are children areas for them to play and frankly be children areas for pets and then stores for possessions now with opening a facility and and really sustaining that operation if we tie a 24/7 or I should say a 24-hour operation to cold weather this could be open for a number of days it could be one day it could be a week depending on how cold it gets and for how long so it would be important for us to make sure that there's continuous electricity available people will need to charge any medical or personal devices additionally we would want to establish a backup site in case the original the primary facility for whatever reason goes offline now I do want to mention the challenges in designating facility we would be giving something up in all likelihood by taking an existing space and deploying it for a 24-hour warming station so if it's a park facility there are programs there are other things going on that would have to be either shut down canceled closed in order to make room for this operation and additional challenges since this is dependent on the weather we would have to rapidly cancel those other those other programs and operations to set this up and then as the weather changes becomes more warm perhaps shut down that warming station and ramp back up our operations get that message out to people that they can use that facility for its intended purpose again it does create a large degree of uncertainty with regard to the weather because it can change on a dime and we would have to be very reactive in that case we would not allow us a lot of time to plan ahead it would not give much notice to our residents we also want to mention that there may be legal requirements of opening an overnight or 24-hour facility versus a daytime facility or an emergency facility that we would need to further investigate services is the next key area and this one's pretty important the the big question is what would we provide at this station at this at this 24-hour warming station and we've taken the approach that because it can last for a number of days depending on the weather we would have to adopt shelter like services and practices because operating it for that length of time for potentially up to say 30 days in a given season it's would become less of a band-aid temporary solution and we would have to adopt those practices because people would come to rely on it regularly the first of which and this is very important creating rules and guidelines for the facility what is our expected level of service what are the expectations for the users and even doing this it takes a lot of time and a lot of expertise to make sure that we set those up correctly alternatively we could designate a third party to operate this facility of course procuring that third party would take time in and of itself and and I'll mention this a little bit later on but a third party may not be interested in only operating facility on a short notice basis for up to 30 days potentially a season so it would likely fall the staff to operate this facility so when we open the facility we would need to provide those basic needs beds blankets food water health and hygiene items that's everything from toothbrushes to just feminine products just anything you can think of to maintain a healthy environment there we would also want to have EMS there to take care of any medical needs and refrigeration for medication if it goes on for sustained period of time we would have to start thinking about taking care of those other urgent service needs as an example mental health services for those who need them those are those are what they receive at our existing overnight shelters in the community and we would need to match that level of service challenges again with our services are scaling up and down these services for a short-term response getting things established ramped up have the EMS personnel there quickly when we are able to set up this inclement weather shelter pardon me income weather station and then bring you back down and that's going to be a challenge to ramp up and then take down those services week in week out on a very short notice I did mention the limited availability of a third party in in an emergency so they they even if they are available to do short notice work in an emergency like a winter storm they may not be and that would again fall to staff to operate that facility and again there is liability assumed by the city in operation in the operation of a shelter so we would need to again research that so that council can go into this service with eyes wide open knowing what we are taking on from legal standpoint probably the the the biggest challenge and the biggest consideration I should say with opening a 24-hour warming station is the personnel who's going to operate it first and foremost if it is going to be city staff or a third party they would have to have requisite training it's emergency response training safety and security how are they going to react to physical violence how are they going to react to a medical emergency some of the things that are seen in shelters and how are they going to work with vulnerable population so that they can be sensitive to those unique needs currently we would have to make a decision of whether to use existing staff or add on additional staff if we use existing staff and I'll get to that in a minute this would be primarily on an overtime basis which would severely stretch our staff capacity to provide our other ongoing operations it is very difficult to do under normal circumstances to have staff work an eight-hour shift and then go right into a 12-hour shift of operations for a 24-hour warming station even if they did a just the warming station didn't do a regular shift the constant closing down and setting up of the part of me of the station would have them shift in between say a week of daytime shifts and a week of nighttime shifts would be very challenging for our employees so as we open the facility we would need to have that again that EMS staff paramedic staff to provide medical services as needed we would also want some level of security there whether that's a security firm or police officer stationed at the at the warming station and then as we go on and this becomes kind of a long-term commitment we would have to find a long-term solution for reallocating staff on both a short and long-term basis and that's we're looking at bringing additional positions on board so we have more flexibility is going to be key so our key challenge with staffing is right now we do not have availability because of the COVID-19 to operate a facility and to provide for those basic needs it's just not something that we are able to do we don't have the staffing capacity for it we are still stretched trying to provide the operations and services that we have outside of a 24-hour warming station without training it would place city staff in situations that they are not prepared to handle which is hazardous for them and hazardous for the guests who are in this facility the physical demand on staff again working overnight shifts whether it's on an overtime basis or not that would be challenging because it is a temporary basis you could have one week where it's open one week where it's not and that constant shifting back and forth would be challenging the impact again of diverting staff from existing programs and operations we would have to slow down throttle back on some of our operations elsewhere to be able to take care of this need on a seasonal basis and then they're always going to be an anticipated logistic challenges with deploying personnel in a timely manner that we'll have to really take it as it comes because again the weather cannot be accurately predicted every single time so we're going to be surprised here or there and that's just the nature of of timing things to the weather so the fourth category is supplies I'm happy to report this is one area where there's not going to be too much of a challenge we can procure the supplies for a a overnight warming station a 24-hour warming station keep those stored at either a warehouse or ideally at that location so they can be deployed very quickly and then the only challenge if you want to call it that it's really more of a consideration it's just the uncertainty of the need or frequency are we going to open a shelter 24-hour warming station for 15 days 30 days 45 days in a season so we would have to purchase on a conservative basis to make sure that we had enough and weren't caught lacking any any critical supply so we did run some preliminary costs on what it would take to to open up a 24-hour warming station and we categorize those as a typical season which is a 30 day 30 days of operation so far I believe we had about just over 20 days this season so I think 30 days is probably accurate for a typical season and then we added a severe season just it's really cold that season you have a lot of days where you dip below freezing at 45 days and we have run the numbers the cost to the facility are primarily janitorial cleaning staffing is going to be the biggest cost driver because at this point it is going to be all over time and so we can add additional staff it will still have some level of overtime but additional staff would limit that to some degree and then supplies supplies are going to be important again as I mentioned earlier we would over procure expecting that we would have you know a full 30 day season or a full shelter every time that it's open there are significant unknown costs training the utility costs would be minimal but they are unknown what medical supplies are needed and any program administration cost so like creating those rules and guidelines that staff time that they're not devoting to other other council priorities or devoting to other operations or services I did mention a couple of cost increase factors over time being one of them and changing the definition of inclement weather so if it does take into consideration heat index windshield that is just more days that are going to be open and that will drive costs up depending on what that threshold is and I did mention at the very end that we do not yet have a funding source identified to pay for this cost so what we would have to do is we have to determine where we would reallocate funding from some existing operation or service over into this purpose and that would that would take some some some review and then we would we would need to come back with to council to make sure that council is approving of that reallocation so that ends the the the overview of a 24-hour warming station I did mention that we do have an alternative if council wants to to consider it and discuss it and that would be to support the enhancement of existing resources lifting up our nonprofit providers are current overnight shelters so that they can do more and expand their services and that could take the form of funding for additional hours for security supplies to increase the numbers that they can serve and it could also take the form of providing goods or an ancillary service so that could mean we try to procure more more hotel rooms to increase capacity you know maybe the purchase of additional showers or laundry trailers or developing and helping them enhance their volunteer network so they simply just have more people to help out so based on what direction we get from council there are a couple different tracks to go with modifying the definition of inclement weather if council chooses to support the enhancement of existing resources staffs recommendation is that to really remove the temperature thresholds from the inclement weather definition entirely this is to reduce confusion city facilities are available during normal operating hours every day of the year regardless of whether it gets below freezing or not so we would simply say that here are the hours that these city facilities are open they are warming slash cooling stations they're available to you any day of the year and I think that would that would help reduce a lot of confusion for those folks we think that it has to reach a certain threshold to come into a city facility city facilities are open regardless if council seeks to develop a 24-hour inclement weather station as a city service we would ask council if they want to modify the current definition that's in the policy to consider windshield or heat index thresholds again that will that will have a pretty big impact on staff and other city services and the cost of setting up a an inclement weather station that is 24 hours and of course you know the potpourri option council can give us any other direction with regard to the inclement weather definition so I do want to provide a summary oh go ahead Sarah no go ahead let you finish and then I want to add something go ahead sure just a brief summary for the council our current policy we believe complements existing resources and shelters to date have not met capacity a 24-hour non-emergency station is doable it is doable it does present challenges that council should be aware of in the areas of staffing service provision and the operational impacts we do have existing shelter services so this shelter may be duplicative and it may not address any of the barriers that are presenting preventing people to go to our existing shelters we did mention the loop 280 a facility coming online in 2022 late 2022 we did mention the logistical challenges of a quick ramp up and and the sustaining you know for an undetermined amount of time of this service and I just I want to emphasize again that we currently do not have staffing availability to support a 24-hour station so with that steps recommendation is to continue to support community providers that may be a a better way to leverage dollars is to to lift up those providers and if this is what council chooses we do have options that are funding related to extend our serve more people or provide other resources such as hotel rooms or our ancillary help shower and laundry trailers or or some help with volunteers so at this point and I know Sarah wants to say something we are seeking direction and we've laid out a couple of options for council one is a 24-hour inclement weather station another is to enhance existing services and a third is simply to to stay as is and continue under our current policy and plan so I'll yield to Sarah but I and Danny and the rest of the gang are very happy to answer your questions so I just want to mention that I don't want to confuse anyone on this is more of a 24/7 turn doing it over a longer period of time which would like you heard from Ryan take out a service a location whatever that would be that doesn't mean that we can't and I think you heard the mayor say that he will be looking at a disaster declaration because of the weather situation that we're facing so that more what Ryan's talking about more long-term what the mayor and I have been working on is more of a short-term effort that would take into consideration the circumstances of the weather being more critical it not the freezing weather isn't critical but when all the other factors involved so I just want to be clear there that there are there are two things there one is that which is more of a ongoing 24/7 difficult to manage and ongoing than the more emergency type shelter that could be stood up when it's necessary based on inclement weather to the extreme okay thank you very much Councilmember McGuire thank you so much so I think that that's something that's been lost a little bit in this conversation is that we have two policies that govern how we provide emergency shelter during extreme weather we've got our inclement weather policy and then we have our emergency management plan the inclement weather policy is more or less a non policy I really appreciate Ryan your recommendation to remove the temperature thresholds from that policy because it is sort of nonsensical to talk about these being emergency cooling and warming centers when really they're just municipal buildings that are open to the public during normal business hours so so let's setting that aside the other policy that we have for the provision of emergency shelter during extreme weather is our emergency management plan which the the city manager and the mayor are using now the emergency management plan doesn't really involve council there are I mean we we we can you know request amendments to the emergency management plan and everything but there aren't judgment calls that council has to make as far as when to open an emergency shelter that's that's dependent on the mayor making a disaster declaration so my question is so what when we do and we do we did it last year and we're doing it again this week when we do or open 24-hour emergency shelters in extreme weather and there is a disaster declaration in place where does the funding come from for staffing that so that the funding comes from the city budget we have to eat that cost you know in some cases if there was funds available to help support it we would use that but usually that's why you work with the mayor to set it to disaster declaration because what that means is you're going to be taking into consideration all those costs associated with it and David you can jump in here but it's not like we have a fund set aside for that purpose it is money that we will incur over a period of time that we're operating under a disaster declaration okay thank you for that clarification I was so there's no like support from FEMA for for providing emergency shelter there could be it depending on whether the governor declares a disaster or they have funding available but usually we incur it first and then we would be in reimburse some similar to what we do with some of our emergency services okay all right thank you for that clarification so I mean I think that the key question here is do we want to codify exactly what the threshold is for doing what we're doing this week in the inclement weather plan or do we want to keep handling this on a case-by-case basis where there's chaos in the community and people are emailing us and calling us and begging us to open emergency shelters and we can't really give them an answer until the very last second about whether we are or aren't I would prefer her that we codify it in the inclement weather policy I think that I'm sorry I'm getting so distracted by there so I think that the the upper threshold that the hot weather threshold it makes sense to remove that entirely because during the summer when people need to take shelter from hot weather it's going to be during the daytime when municipal buildings are open anyway the the question is what is that lower threshold for opening an emergency shelter which I think is is up for debate you know we've talked about saying you know if the actual temperature or wind chill gets below 32 but as staff has pointed out that could result in us opening an emergency shelter for like 45 nights a year and I actually like I googled and and came up with a more an even more dire I guess number than Ryan provided us with that on average in Denton it gets below freezing 47 nights per year so that's a lot and we may not be able to commit to that but I think it is reasonable to commit to something perhaps if we say if if forecasted temperatures are below 32 degrees and there is also precipitation in the forecast perhaps we could include language like that I would like to see us take that step now as far as the the staffing and the operations of the shelter I don't want to see us trying to operate a full service shelter that provides the kind of services that I'm KOC provides we don't have the resources to do it we don't have the expertise to do it but what we do have our buildings that have furnaces where people can sit overnight you know I obviously you know we have cots we're going to be using them this week we have food that's less of an issue but you know I I'm I think that as far as staffing we could probably rely heavily on volunteers for that so I'd love to hear both staffs take on on relying more heavily on volunteers and hearing my colleagues and I'll give direction on the next time around so councilmember quire I think two things one is I'm not against I mean obviously it's the council's will what they want to do about putting something in a policy but I will say you have to rely on your city management you have a city manager an interim city manager who has experience in and is trained in emergency management now does that mean you will in the future don't know but you have to trust the staff that they have enough gumption I guess to say to the mayor and ultimately council that okay there's a threshold here that we're we get we're getting at which is we're gonna have some really cold weather way below 32 degrees and precipitation and these are conversations that I have had with the mayor I think if you want to memorialize that that's one thing but I do think there has to be a level of trust that your leadership here will have those kinds of best interest of our our community at heart the second thing is volunteers while I I love volunteers I think having volunteers in any city program to help is is is an admirable goal and it's also helps us at many cases what we found though is you can't throw them in there they have to have some training they also have to know what they may have to see and expect our staff we've got to do a better job of training them quite frankly if we're going to put them in this situation because there are incidents that occur we experienced that during storm urey that I would not want to put a volunteer into that role and so that would be my concern and any liability of do we take the liability on if we have a volunteer on city property and they're assisting us with a program I'm not saying we can't do it because you know darn it we can make people we can train them we could put them in there but I would say if the decision is for us to do something like that I would recommend we set a threshold where it is three criteria there's no more room in our existing shelters the temperature is way below what is you know even 32 and we're experiencing freezing temperature and rain and snow and we're worried about people on the street being frozen in animals quite frankly and that we then that kicks us into an operation mode of opening up an alternative site putting in alternatives for transportation doing all the things that we know we need to do that that would be my my thought from from the city manager's office but obviously you all may have your own opinion okay thank you counselor Davis I think if it's all right can I speak sir yeah thank you I just wanted to kind of reiterate though the challenges of scaling up something up and down so significantly and how their opportunities to do it in a more cost-effective and safe manner so if there's ways to look at how we support other agencies or implementing a hotel program that eliminates some of these barrier issues and allows for people to move into something safely for a very short period of time without some of these other significant staff and service impacts I would like to just kind of make sure that that that discussion happens as well okay thank you counselor Davis thank you mayor just a couple questions before I give I think the beginning of my direction I want to make sure to listen to everybody before I kind of have a firm firm stance but first question is can we get a really brief recap of how we communicate our inclement weather policy out to the community at large I mean folks that may or may not be on social media where we communicate with folks folks that certainly aren't getting you know a utility bill or something that tells them they don't get the resident update how are we communicating that information out to the folks who really need to see it a key way is of course we do all those things we put it on social media we do mention it and to audiences who may not need the service but a key way we do this is why working with our partners working with street outreach team working with homeless outreach team and working with the service providers the people who interact with those folks who might seek a shelter or might need a shelter on a day-in day-out basis we work with them to get this communicated out as much as we can so that people know that there are resources available I'm not sure if Danny wants to add anything to that no and I think just in the experience with Yuri as well that we had you know the ability to call phone numbers so that reached a larger population who might have need of services not just people experiencing homelessness do we great point Danny I appreciate that that we're not just talking about folks who are experiencing homelessness in the way we might think about it but all the other vulnerable populations too do we post that physically anywhere and if so how do we decide where to post that and Jennifer might be able to step in it has been posted in the libraries and other public facilities in the past so that's an that is an option or has been an option utilized before we do have the signs with the information about the community providers as well as the city facilities that are open as warming or cooling stations posted in all of our facilities not only on the front door but inside the facilities and a lot of our patrons who interact with library staff members also share that information in case somebody doesn't see it and then the printouts are handed out by Street Outreach and then their signage is those are usually printed on posted at the service provider locations as well okay and what kind of was kind of transportation options exist yeah those are limited sure they would yeah they would probably be having to secure it or if they had assistance through a previously award voucher for example today Street Outreach also included bus passes for folks for transportation as they were going on doing education so that's an option so we've had we've had bus vouchers bus and train vouchers and those kind of things available for a while now do we have anything similar for go zone or any of the on-demand services yeah yeah well just taking this this week in particular obviously with the emergency the pending emergency declaration talking with DCTA actually just have a have a call to return their call in just a minute to have that exact conversation of how can we use go zone or whatever services they're providing in conjunction with what we're already talking about for transportation over the next few days internally for getting folks to the shelter so obviously that's in the context of the emergency declaration but those are conversations we're having sure sure and then my last question before I go into direction is I know we approved them in December we had some we had more discussion actually the last time we approved them back before kovat but the temperatures that are currently in our inclement weather policy how did we arrive at those or to those temperatures predate the current staff those were when the original policy was revised in 2019 those were the temperature thresholds that the service providers were giving us for when they might enhance their services beyond what was existing and so that was revised to sort of give us a direction on when we would reach out and educate the public so really the current policy was serving two purposes it was to educate the public where to go and that gave us that sort of direction on when we should do that and then also one other part that got missed in this conversation is when city facilities could open to community events to move indoors so really that's the purpose of this policy originally and when it was revised so those those calculations for temperatures were again were just a measure to tell us when we should start to do public outreach great thank you for for putting it in those terms because I think that does get kind of lost councilmember McGuire touched on it that some of this is city facilities that are open regular hours and and really there's a whole other side to the the inclement weather policy that you just mentioned when when events need to move inside because of inclement weather I have been kind of kind of floored and a little bit frustrated with some of the communication I've had in the community over the last week or so really especially as the the weather has kind of gotten closer I mean I've heard from people who don't don't seem to know that the resources that exists in the commit in the community are are there or don't seem to know or haven't been told or informed of all the the work that didn't is already doing in this space I don't know entirely why that is I'm not sure where everybody gets their information but but I hear from people who who for instance somebody emailed me today and said why is Denton just looking at this today it's like well no actually a council member asked for this work session long before this weather was predicted and actually we've had an inclement weather policy for some time and actually we've been working on 11 million dollar shelter solution for some time before that and our community partners let's not forget really all of this started when a local priest opened the doors to his parish to bring people in from the cold and so Denton has been in this space for a long long time so I don't want anybody out there to have the impression that this is the first time we've thought about bringing folks in from bad weather and providing for our folks that that are currently unhoused but because we've been in this space for a long time we have the benefit of professionals that work for the city and professionals that work for our nonprofits that their only full-time job is looking at issues like this and helping us decide how to meet these challenges and so I take very seriously the staff recommendation that if we want to make enhancements to what we offer if we want to make changes to what we offer then we begin with what we have already which is a very robust set of services a very robust network of places where people can go they are not a fit for everyone we have to acknowledge that but they're not a fit for everyone for particular reasons and we are currently with our current resources doing everything we can to meet availability within reasonable bounds for the folks who need to get out of the weather if we I think we have to have temperature triggers of some point I don't think if we took for the inclement weather policy if we had no template temperature triggers whatsoever then the confusion that exists in the community right now about what is Denton doing what is Denton not doing if staff or the council have to make some kind of decision as the weather changes as to is this a really cold one or is there the winds not so bad this weekend or whatever that is not a way to set policy I think we have to have triggers somewhere I think it's fair to talk about the triggers to talk about what those temperature thresholds are and whether they meet our needs or not if they do the job that they're intended to do as as Danny described it but I want to make sure we look at this from the perspective of enhancing what is already there and is already very robust in this community and that is a very dedicated effort over a number of years to addressing this issue to making people safe and to providing what we can with limited resources so I take the staff recommendation current shelter availability has not maxed out we have people in hotel rooms we have space available in the overnight shelters we have space available in the existing city facilities during the day we have even some of those city facilities that have been available and not been taken advantage of for whatever reason if we do anything at all I would like to see us enhance what we already have not try to stand up our own solution from scratch when we can leverage our community partners that are already there okay mayor put the melter thank you appreciate the comments so far I think as a matter of fact that we pretty much had been maxing out so the staff should please comment you know after me to kind of fact-check that so I think the idea that we need some more capacity is true but that that having been said if you look at the list of the reasons why even when we do have capacity people don't go I mean that the idea of you know standing up this sort of mass shelter it doesn't really match that list I mean what people are telling us is I don't want to leave my dog my stuff my family my autonomy my space you know just and people will put up with with you know terrible life-threatening situations many you know rather than compromise that feeling of autonomy and and the thing that that has been mentioned that most addresses those things and that is also most flexible and most immediately ready to go actually as Danny mentioned our hotel rooms so I think if we you know need to authorize greater flexibility to respond you know in inclement weather with some more hotel room space it's very flexible and it's ready to go I think that's that's the way to go I think the missing a big missing piece is the transportation piece and we're all you know you kind of hear the idea swirling around you know this on-demand fleet seems very suited to the moment and I suspect you know we're about to get a policy breakthrough on on how to meet the transportation need in those situations so that that's that's those would be my main direction as far as standards you know kind of or triggers if I don't think there's anything preventing us if we go to say heat index which includes heat and humidity and it's based on you know human physiology and I think it's anything like terribly on policy like to have the table and you can post it and you can put it on a website and it's very determinative and I you know I would definitely take interim city manager recommendations on where to kind of refine the guidelines on the cold end to take into account precipitation and so on but but I don't think there's any magic behind saying it must only be temperature I think you know if human physiology says otherwise you know that we can we can respond to that okay anyone else counselor armature yes so I have a number of points of direction is my audio okay yes yes it's good good so first of all I I really appreciate councilmember McGuire's what what she had to say about codifying an emergency plan I think that would be extremely helpful and I think that that's a big part of the guidance that is that the public is looking for I agree with as a city manager your comment that of course because of the last-minute decisions involved in an emergency program there is some degree an emergency planning you know there is some degree of trust that will have to happen if we take the time to post a council meeting you know within 72 hours etc of every emergency then we're gonna miss the emergency that's not how I'm going to handle however you know some I think that we can have a codifying where which is very much what you know an emergency plan is where you have you know just like at schools where they do you know fire drills and then and you know places of business you you have a sense of okay when when it gets called that it's an emergency we all know what to do and we're gonna know we in this case being the public you know we all know what is going to be available you know and of course that will change I mean it's flexible it changed depending on what kind of emergency but to have some sense of expectation would be really really helpful and I think would help both staff and our nonprofit service providers so I completely support that I do think that and you know as far as time sensitivity now we're talking and looking at cold temperatures and not hot temperatures but I do want to add that I do think that we do see dangerously hot temperatures you know including in the evenings which has to do not just with temperature but with you know people's access to water etc so it can be you know deadly to be unsheltered in the in the very hot weather so I I support a threshold of somewhere between and I know this is a big range but I'm purposely leaving it open between you know 32 to 40 for windchill I'm focusing on windchill instead of Fahrenheit temperatures because it goes on with what the feel is because that has you know more effect on both personal comfort and just public health risk and just simple temperature and a 90 heat index threshold so and and for both of those you know 24 hours as far as the timeline you know I agree that things will change significantly in December 2022 when the facility on the loop gets online so we know some of what how that will change but there are some things that we don't know including who's going to use the facility and what not so you know I would like us to come up with a plan that to to fill that gap in time which is a significant gap from now through December to make sure that we have a system in place for maximum public safety for you know saving lives and that will extend through extend until you know an event certain when this shelter comes online and I'm not saying that when that shelter comes online this won't be needed anymore but at least we could see then how that changes so anyway I think that we should look at and setting policy for for within within that that window roughly over the course of this year you know 2022 from now through December assuming that that happens that the loop project comes online in time also as far as choosing option one to do this all in city facilities with city staff versus to to augment the you know our contributions to the nonprofit service providers that are already on the ground and working with the city I want both I want a hybrid hybrid approach that because it would be really foolish not to augment what we already have in place for a number of reasons that I don't need to go into and I think that we could that in also opening up an additional space at least through December 2022 or the end of December 2022 whenever it is when this the place in the loop comes online if we can have a city space that can be a city space when the same people who are gonna come and work at the place on the loop can come and and help in this city facility so whether it is the Civic Center you know or some other city-owned facility whether we have an arrangement with the hotel and I do think hotel rooms as far as shelter as far as overnight shelter goes are a critical piece of the puzzle but also what we're looking at this is this is this is going back to a point that councilmember member McGuire made that that this is not just about you know overnight shelter and beds this is about having a heated and safe place where people can not free where people will not freeze to death and in hot weather a a sheltered place where people will will not die of dehydration and heat so is really kind of low low bar and I think we can do that as far as and I'm almost at the end but I'm kind of I've got all these notes and I'm touching on the the points that have been made as far as availability you know I understand the concern about if a city-owned facility is opened up then events that were planned there would have to be canceled and there would have to be a plan in place for that what I would suggest would be to have a plan that involves making sure that we never are actually instead of putting the negative open and the positive making sure that we always have one city facility that has space available where we're gonna not rent out that facility a a spaceholder an emergency reserve of space and like like a rainy day fund but this is a rainy day space but it could be it I think it would have to be I imagine rotating right so it wouldn't it would be ridiculous to say Civic Center will always be available this one other place will always be available but to say that that we make sure that there will always be a space available and that can rotate and change you know in the case of an emergency a weather related emergency as far as funding and staffing goes I support a combination of us and in no particular order our city staff and our nonprofit staff and increasing the pay for them in these kinds of situations to make sure people get paid for their labor for people who want to volunteer I think having a volunteer training program would be great and to have it be a year-round thing where you know people could get some sort of you know could get some sort of certification where people attend a you know half day of training and then you've got a volunteer like a volunteer fire department but you know a volunteer emergency warming station or cooling station public army that could be rallied and contacted when the need arises finally transportation you know huge missing piece and I'm so happy to know that staff is in collaboration with or in talks with with DCTA and and goes on so I am very eager to hear kind of what what comes of that there are probably some other points that I haven't touched on but there's so much and I've already taught spoken enough but I hope have I made myself clear where I am in advocating for both one and two and as far as the budget goes I mean as far as putting a price on it you know we're talking about public safety and and human life so for me that will always be always be number one so I am prepared you know to spend what what it cost to preserve human life in these situations okay customer why am I gonna skip you councilman bird you started us off so I'm gonna try to get everyone wants oh yes I am going to I have my notes here I was gonna try to pull my screen back up real quick one two I wanted to first of all acknowledge the folks that are out there living you know in these elements I want us to be reminded that these are survivors these are some very strong people and some of them that is their way of life and they can take care of themselves they have done things you know I do want to acknowledge that that they are survivors and with that being said I'm looking forward to the mayor's declaration when that comes out and I think that we're going to do a great job in taking care of those groups of people the young house groups of people that want to be taking care of theirs we know that there's going to be some people and I'm saying this for the for the audience out there that think that the city is not doing the very best to take care of what their responsibilities are to these groups they're they're doing as much as they possibly can and again like Councilman Davis this is not something that's new so years of making decisions as to how we are going to manage this particular issue here I wanted to say that I am going to agree with looking at option number two we have professionals out there that are are making sure that we're providing as much as we can every day and I believe that the city is going to enhance I think they need to enhance their services I think we need to commit to transportation services for whatever that's going to be and wherever they're going to go we can do that so I'm not going to take too much time mr. mayor but those are two things and I'm looking at option number two thank you in what counseling back thank you mr. mayor one of the things I think we're we've we touched on a little bit we talked about the humanitarian interests of what's going on but I think it's it's worth noting and that we haven't really had much conversation and when we talk about funding and resources as to what funding and resources go to dealing with inclement weather emergencies when we do not meet thresholds you know what what are the the police you know and fire department threshold times for emergency services for somebody experiencing hypothermia or medical catastrophes of various sorts really do whether what are the the health contingencies and I don't mean the day-to-day unhoused health contingency impacts but just in terms of our community and hospital and city responses I think we are not doing the proper math if we're not saying this is what it costs us to do a thing this is what it costs us to not do a thing and then on top of that how much do we as a society value the humanitarian aspects and I think all of those need to be in the equation so I'm gonna I'm not asking for them right now because I know that would be a complex ask but I'm asking going forward as we address community services I would like to see numbers say you know this is what happens if we do the status quo or continue to do nothing or don't don't solve some of these pain points and and then jumping over to step the concept of pain points we heard a lot about barriers to to moving forward with some of the solutions we already have in place and and I concur with a lot of the counselors and staff they've said hey we we have some solutions but so what are the barriers to getting adoption and mayor pro tem alluded to this and I think we what I didn't hear as much of is solutions to overcoming those barriers so you know for the human beings maybe hotels or expansion of existing capacity or or or even a 24/7 I'll circle back around in my direction on overall in a second but I'm not hearing solutions to some of the pain points that keep people out of the existing current channels you know so can we enact policies that are more flexible particularly in emergency conditions for for pets and possessions and the other barriers that were mentioned I didn't hear solutions those barriers I heard the barriers themselves and so I think we have an opportunity for growth to solve those barriers and and I think one of the things you heard say is is expectations you know you know I'm famous for saying expectation management all the time is one of my little buzzwords but I think that's really where several the counselors particularly counselor McGuire was talking about codifying you know the rules and changes you know codifying wind chills like counselor Davis and counselor McGuire said codifying heat indexes codifying when I switch from current operating procedures to enhanced semi-emergency procedures to full emergency procedures and and and I think we trust staff to implement some of these solutions but one of the reasons I think it's it's it's it's to the staff's benefit to codify these is it it establishes the expectation for planning when you're going to do it but also helps with this we have this one of the hugest hugest that one of the largest barriers is communication I think several of us have touched on it we've asked you know how is the notices getting out how are we doing a thing and so we clearly are not for whatever reason I'm not pointing fingers we are clearly not getting the word to the community and to the unhoused sufficiently of the resources that we're marshaling and I think this idea of having these codified transitional points between emergency services and inclement services are really really helpful because it gets to where I'm gonna sort of give a direction because I don't want perfect to be the enemy of the good we have the shelter coming online so just as several people said we're about to increase capacity but we're sort of at capacity so how do we bridge and I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good so how do we get the sort of minimal services that are needed to be emergency services sort of transition services to inclement services and then inclement services and I think the that that issue that that workflow that procedure is something that you know we don't need to get in the city managers face about but I think that having those rules are definitely policies and and and she she on her own started ad hoc in the workflow that sounded like it was probably going to be effective so I mean you can see from that that you know she she she's taking steps she knows what to do and I think we just need to have those policies in place to make her life easier and the public more aware of what those things are so and but I would focus and my direction is expansion of services plus and I know I like to do these little plus things I do think we can expand services but I think that expansion does not need to go to the perfect of a 24/7 warming center staffed by fully trained staff that's that's our ideal world situation we don't want to have that ultimate goal be the enemy of getting more services now putting more resources online now and having those resources flexibly respond like a real stat you know if we if we need a lot of services then we go into full emergency mode we might simply need some excess services and warehousing in warm conditions like counselor McGuire talked about to get people to bridge to the point where we actually have the fully trained capacity coming online of the shelter so I think there's too much of a and B mindset it's it's either got to be a or it's got to be B and I think the answer is it's got to be a and a half it's got to be actually all the little transition points between a and B and so you know my direction is is to but I think we're not we're not marshaling the the transitional resources that we could and I would like to see us have heat index and windshield based workflows for at what levels do we get minimal services and then more expansive services kind of thing and I think we can bridge to December and then we need to reevaluate and maybe in December after the every we have all these new resources online and this new workflow online we can say yep no that isn't enough we still need more and so we've got to have the 24/7 shelter or we may say no we're great we managed to get it done but we need to be transitional until we get to that point and then reevaluate okay and so my note is this first I want to I want to thank staff for pointing out the fact that we have no gaps in service now whatever you call it people can get in now with respect to volunteering for those that want to volunteer including and not limited to this council right if we want to roll up our sleeves and volunteer I'd ask for a follow-up on how to do that how to be in place to to serve the community in that way so if you could give me that and then also I'd ask staff I know it's on the website but kind of a way to and Councilmember Davis I think touched on this we what is the primary location that we're going to send out information obviously it's spider webs and we have multiples but just if all else all else fails I think we should have it may be a phone number that people can call that we put out that has a recording that has the most recent information because most people have a cell phone so we could just say hey here's the thing here's a center that's open here's a number to dial for transportation you know and obviously at the beginning of this to satisfy Mac and the legal department that needs to say if you have an emergency dial 9-1-1 and then go into everything so we cover all those bases so that's my thought there and then also I just I want to thank you city manager for what you said because there's no way to predict what emergencies we're gonna have we we had ice in Galveston last year which never happens you know so to say that we're gonna have to write down something that predicts all future weather patterns that then decides when we're gonna have a state of emergency etc I think if it's simply codified as is I don't know if this is exact but it says the city manager is going to communicate with the mayor and we're gonna get things done and that's oversimplified but I think that's really the key we have to allow subject matter experts that have constant contact with the county the state federal government to do their job while we're doing our day job and we have policies around that and that's what we're tasked to do and I think that's important to give you your office that autonomy I mean chief Dixon is in your office he's in contact with the FBI he's in contact with all these other law enforcement agencies you're getting information that we have no idea about and by the time you communicate it to everyone and then disseminate it out we've missed an opportunity so I think you're exactly right that we have to trust subject matter experts and be ready to pivot on anything a case in point unfortunately the HBC use received threats yesterday and they had to act on it I mean it's there's no time to delay there's there's time for action and there's times when you're gonna get notice about credible credible threats instances issues before anyone else and so I trust you with that authority and then I'll have to do my part so that that's where I'm there the normalized attempt thing that conversation Danny here's what I'd like to see I'd like to see not just an arbitrary number I think there's a number associated to start with but we have data across these years and we have data on this year specifically as we've had the hotel rooms when people come in right when it when is that threshold where's that kind of hey we've seen people be resistant we know this individual rarely comes in but did come in in these circumstances so now we can use actual data to guide our decisions and I think that's better than us sitting at a dais in a can temperature control room trying to decide when someone wants to come in and we can have some overlying guidance but I think also some details and some database decisions around that would be great and I just want to city manager I know I'm wrong but I'm gonna get close because I want you to touch on this because no one's mentioned it and I think that's a failing again to recognize what staff is doing day in day out so last number I heard 64 people rehoused from the hotel room am I close Annie is that fairly accurate we've rehoused since the beginning of the program yes yeah so all the while without any policy direction any hand holding from this body staff has how rehoused 64 people in the whole they were in the hotel got them housed freed up space another person to come in just really doing great work and and that's the information that needs to be out there that that we're working very hard to make sure we serve everyone in our community well and it's not city staff just to make that clear yes yes but but I mean I think to to an end there's funding there's there's a lot of moving parts behind it and it's an absolute team effort so that's that and then from a then I think last thing I have is David if you could pop on I say this regularly and I think you I'm gonna ask you to send out something again but I think it's it goes to this messaging and getting communication out to people I think we if you could again send out the difference in cost to the city versus cost to the county the city is only the fire department paramedic wing of that and we get reimbursed by the county so I'm not putting words in your mouth I just think it's important to have that distinction so people don't think the city is expending X amount of funds I'm certain that there's a cost but I just we need to frame that better so that we're all communicating the same thing obviously the county and county health have a carry the the heavier load of that which is not the jurisdiction of this body but if you could you could circle back with that and then that would be helpful just in a Friday report or something like that when you have a chance to compile that there yes this is Sarah if you would allow me just a point of privilege just to follow up on a couple of things that were mentioned sure I what I read is us to come back maybe looking at some how we enhance some services and certainly share with our council and and let me just say this I think the reason we hired Bob Robert Martinez is the very thing we're talking about today he is experienced in emergency management and this is one of my biggest priorities when I took over here was we can't just assign this to a fire battalion chief we have to have a person that is connected that has all the training and background when it as it relates to emergency management and he shows up here on the screen for you to see the I want you to know that this staff has been continuously meeting since Monday but we've talked started talking about this last week when we knew the weather was going to be bad this is where I talked about the level of trust with Bob on board we've already scheduled meetings tomorrow morning tomorrow afternoon Thursday morning Thursday afternoon Friday morning Friday afternoon to talk about activating the emergency operations center and how we kick our work into into gear but beyond that we've talked about how do we transport people off the street to get them somewhere how do we how do we get them safely to a site how do we feed them how do we keep them their pets well we bring shelter we've been caught over and we bring cages over so we have all this and that so what we will do is come back with what's the plan to augment the services when we set a trigger point what may mean okay it's triple play it means the temperatures are really bad it's freezing rain and we know that there's not going to be enough room at other places how do we transport them how do we do these things to address the barriers but I can tell you that we've been working diligently and I don't mean just Bob I mean all of us chief Dixon and that means they've been out to different sites chief can you please step in here and tell them because this is important I want them to know we're not idly standing by our team has been out talking to people and I think you've sent me a text in regards to how often you're muted. You're on me. No. Let me just tell you it's the hot team is proactively visited 20 camps this week prior to the discussions and contacted 50 people they gave out blankets socks knit hats and they're going back out again this week so we're taking all sorts of proactive approaches but you'll see with the mayor coming out with a declaration we've been on top of it we've been working should we can we improve absolutely that's why Bob's here to help us better training for employees better understanding of our council members and our community what we do when we triggered how we do it how they can help and I have that I have that commitment that we will get that information to you but we want to make sure we're doing it right and we have that documented as well. Okay thank you and so lightning round we're for those there want a second round Councilman McGuire thank you yes it is my second round but I have not yet provided direction thank you to the city manager that segues perfectly into what my direction was going to be I think it's clear knowing what I know now about the emergency management plan which I did not understand at the time that I directed staff to place this work session on a high priority what I now understand is that there there are mechanisms other than the inclement weather plan to address weather emergencies and that that I think that staff has this particular situation well in hand so my direction is sometime before we pass our next budget you know perhaps late spring perhaps in summer we revisit this conversation and I would like to see perhaps a maybe another work session with a draft of a new inclement weather policy which establishes what the thresholds are right I mean this the city manager made a judgment call that because it's going to be you know there it could get down to nine degrees and there's going to be precipitation that that is especially dangerous and the city manager made a judgment call that that we need to open a 24-hour warming center because of that she also made a judgment call last week when it got down to 32 degrees but it wasn't there was no precipitation not to open so I think we need to establish in between nine degrees and freezing rain and 32 degrees and dry where is that line and and that's something that that I would like to see established in detail in the the inclement weather policy I agree with councilmember Armenters direction that I would like to see us have a rainy day space some type of space that's available on on short notice and and I would like for us to to budget this I mean that's why I asked I brought up that the budget process I'd like for us to budget for this you know the emergency management plan is clearly written to address things like tornadoes or you know things that don't happen regularly the kind of weather that we're gonna see these next few days is weather that happens every year and it's probably gonna happen more and more frequently so I think that we we need to assume that this is gonna keep happening and and and budget for it and I would like to see that budget include you know a 24-hour warming station with just minimal staffing I appreciate the point that that maybe maybe volunteers aren't aren't the the greatest choice for this type of work although I as I expressed earlier and more than happy to volunteer my own time but like you know if we're gonna open the MLK Center and five people show up to get out of the cold do we really need to pay to have medical staff there for five people I don't know if that's if we need to have that large of a scope so so I think that we need to have you know included in our inclement weather plan what kind of what kind of turnout are we expecting to have if the weather is nine degrees and raining how many people are actually gonna show up at a at an emergency shelter and what kind of staffing do we actually need to meet the needs of what's probably going to be a pretty small group and then and then budget for that in addition to that I would also like to see specific provisions for transportation as well I know again that staff has been working on this and that community services community services staff are planning to use city vehicles to provide transportation I also know that you know there are plans in the works with DCTA to help with that I just love to see that plan kind of laid out in our inclement weather plan in addition to those changes to the inclement weather plan I would also love to see us increase the funding to the hotel program I think that it's clear that that's been really effective and really successful you know not only have there been a lot of folks who have been served by the hotel program who have gone on to permanent housing but it also addresses a lot of those barriers to you know folks who don't want to go to a congregate shelter or don't want to go to a warming center and feel more comfortable if they can be by themselves in a hotel room so I do want to see us expanding funding to all of our non-profit partners but especially to the hotel program because that has been so effective this is real brief can when we're doing our counts can we look at our counts as a function of what populations are allowed in terms of like demographics of men women and children because you can max out on men or max out on women or max out on other things and and the shelter will look like it's available or resources available but they're only available for some demographics so I think that would be helpful if we could and if that's not the case if it's always fully open for every human that's cool but that's not my understanding and and so if you could educate me about that and as as we go into the future I would appreciate it yeah we can verify that data for you thank you all right mayor for Tim Meltzer yeah thank you and actually that's part of the point on on hotel rooms it's not just for people who want to be by themselves it's it suits families in a way that the kind of congregate situations don't one of the gaps we keep talking about is well actually two of the gaps it's transportation and communication and I'm just putting out as you think about this putting out the thought that you know could we empower the go-zone drivers to you know first of all to be paid for transporting people but also to know whatever the solution is you know to to be able to say can I can take you to shelter and then another and that's all one too many communication for the city right or for DCT a and then I wonder if we're also able to efficiently communicate to businesses who often have you know line of sight to people who are stuck out in weather and to give them the information that you can call a go zone for that person take them to the shelter solution so you know maybe that's a way to achieve both the transportation issue you'd have closed that gap as well as the communication gap okay well thank you thank you very much thank you miss city manager comes from an armature now as quickly as possible please yeah just wanted to throw in there mentioned to staff span is also another transportation provider who has worked with DCTA on other things in the past so I think it'd be worthwhile to get in touch with span for emergency transportation okay thank you miss city manager and staff Danny and for all your planning and chief Dixon thank you for your your kind words I know you were saying how great I was but I'm sorry it was muted I will get that fixed thank y'all very much okay that takes us to our last work session item which will be super fast so we'll get that and then we'll take a break for dinner come back at 630 I know we do have a closed session I'm sorry but we'll take a break for dinner go in the closed session and then go from there Rachel let me call it sorry it's ID 22050 receive report hold discussion give staff direction on pending City Council requests for allocating the request amount of time to conduct the feasibility study for driver feedback signs yes sir thank you mayor again mayor and council this is Rachel Walter at Mendoza assistant to the city manager and I'll present for y'all today are pending requests for information trying to get this full screen as I speak there we are this is a little bit of reminder for those that may not be aware this process we do up to seven requests per meeting we do one per council member we have one today from the mayor so I'll introduce that and then the mayor will have up to two minutes to describe and justify his request and the remaining elected officials will have up to one minute to provide feedback and indicate their support for the use of staff time so that we can respond and we will respond to all requests where consensus is reached here's a little bit more information about how councils priorities as far as these are established they can request that they be prioritized based on high moderate or low and we will take those into consideration if consensus is reached so again today we have one from the mayor and it's regarding the allocating of time to conduct the feasibility study for driver feedback signs little bit of background information there for you as was provided in your backup and we're just looking for that preparation of the feasibility study to be able to do that and mayor I'm going to kick it over to you okay thank you very much yeah so I won't need the full two minutes it's simply the southeast Denton neighborhood specifically has identified an issue like many of our neighborhoods that they're with speeding and this is a way to combat that the trailer temporary placed has worked well so I want staff to have the ability to study this area and implement the speed signs and so it's simply a digital sign that tells people how fast they're going and a speed limit above it but staff has to do this preparation to put those in place if you follow up with city manager she can tell you where those are located after this if it's successful then great that that'll get that ball rolling so that's what we're up to thank you let the staff reset the clock councilor Davis thank you mayor now I concur with this request although I would like to see I would like to see information on maybe some staff guidelines for where these can be best deployed so I know that this request is is really about one particular neighborhood but we I mean speeding concerns are probably one of the top two or three things that all of us hear about and I don't know if it's mostly the collectors I don't know if it's mostly a particular few residential streets but some sort of guidelines from staff on where these could be best utilized maybe some best practices from the industry and as much as I want to see these just everywhere we can afford to put them I have to put a low priority on this one just because we are already asking a lot of our engineering department right now they are short staffed we are leaning on them very hard for a lot of big priorities but I would like to see this maybe even looped into some of the the vision zero stuff that we're talking about is mobility plant plan the priorities thank you councilor McGuire thank you yeah I do support moving through moving forward with this you know the evidence suggests that driver feedback signs are a lot more effective than just plain old speed limit signs that preventing speeding and we've I mean obviously we hear lots of complaints from all over but I have heard more from Southeast Denton than from other areas I don't know maybe it's something about the way that the streets are designed but but I I've gotten the anecdotal impression that it's a bigger issue in Southeast and then elsewhere but I would also like to see yeah maybe in a Friday report at some point information about how decisions are made about where to place those signs because yeah they are really effective and they are needed in a lot of different places but I am also going to put a low priority on it for the same reason that I know staff has a lot to do right now thank you mr. mayor yeah no I I fully support this because I thought we already had this ability and the fact that the mayor has to bring it up and act as a special thing means that that either there's a miscommunication with council about like how we do it which is alludes to what counselor Davis and counselor McGuire said or you know maybe it's something we want to look at but I absolutely support this support starting in Southeast Denton and support us being better informed about how engineering makes their decision for all of them okay I know this particular request is is is new for it's not a new request because it's for this particular area has been complaining about speeding for a number of years and we've taken this information to and through the mobility committee we've talked to traffic about it they put temporary speeding indicators in the area although we also complained about those were put in the wrong place because they were close to a stop sign we've talked about putting us more street on a road diet so this conversation is thank you mayor for bringing it back up and let's highlight this but we also know that that area is getting ready for street overhauls so hopefully after the street overhauls whenever the utilities are taking care of under the roads pulled up put back down we can see some significant change in that area as well as the rest of the city but particularly that area as we know that those that's a drive-through area thank you thank you councilor amateur yes I support this and give it high priority and I will add to that that I think that we need to invest as a city in more of these speed feedback signs because they are so effective I think it goes with our vision zero plan and the fact that we have such limited number of these is is a problem when they have such maximum benefit and I think that money could be better allocated investing in these signs then in you know investing in more traffic police which is much more expensive who can only be there at precise and limited moments more signs and I think that's where we can get the money from okay anyone else okay yeah I think the more signs suggestion is what worth considering yeah I'm totally fine with this and and staff has been very responsive and responding to requests for speed studies in general and I just would like to hear maybe through staff report whether you now want this to come through two-minute pitches or if you'll you know just I would like to come to you because you know I haven't had you know difficulty with response I think other council members would say the same you know without this process thanks okay thank you thank you and so that right we have everything you need I do thank you great okay thank you very much and so it is 515 we'll take a break until 540 545 let's say 545 we'll take 30 minutes grab dinner get situated in closed session and so let me see all the closed session now yes so I'll so I'll open up the closed session and we are going to I will convene the closed session at 516 and we will consider the following items consultation with attorneys on the Texas government code section five five one dot zero seven one thank you good evening and welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council it is 630 and we do have a quorum so we'll call the meeting back to order and the first thing on the agenda is pledges to the pledges allegiance to the United States and Texas flag so please stand and join me if you're able honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God one and individual thank you thank you we had one proclamation on the agenda but that's going to be that has been moved to our next regular council meeting I do believe all right no maybe next month but that'll that'll get rescheduled one we have two people scheduled for open mics but the second if someone's following along will not be speaking this evening so the first person is it's ID 22146 mr. Timothy Warren Timothy Warren okay then I know I have one caller is that caller there no mayor I'll get her queued up now okay if we have someone in person if you when first will I get her queued up okay no the only thing we have is open mic yes sir the the caller that I will have is for open mic as well okay great then mayor Watson fuel come around and sorry thank you okay let me get my phone ready for the timing so I don't yes mess up like I did last time sure okay Chris Watts didn't Texas if you could if the control room could put the meme up on the screen please okay thank you this is a meme that was posted by councilmember McGuire in response to an editorial that I had in the didn't record Chronicle was posted on January the 17th which I believe was Martin Luther King day also three council members Beck armature and Melzer all commented or liked the post and this meme was embedded at the bottom of the post it was not a separate post so as you can see I'm just going to go through the image it's hard to see on the top image but it's basically a black man with a gun aiming at a black man is sprawled out in a chair the second scene you can sort of see the smoke discharge from the firearm and then you can make out for better like a word bullet holes in the the person sitting in the chair which means that that problem it's the center mass that person is probably deceased I understand this is a popular meme and I understand that this is a celebrity but I've never seen a sitting city council member use this kind of imagery to present their political positions and then the three council members McGuire armature Melzer and Beck commented but they didn't call this out separately they didn't say we appreciate the opinion and then we also but we don't accept this imagery this imagery is offensive it's about as tone deaf as you can get and it's a holy lack of judgment it's not a lack of judgment it's an absence of judgment to use an imagery of gun violence and death to present your political position of all the things you can choose of all the things someone could choose why this one if those four council members work for a private corporation you would be fired almost immediately for this kind of representation I don't think this is really what the community expects from our elected leaders now council member McGuire did take it down she took it down and a rationale was it's a distraction from my message about Watts about DCTA bus ridership I really hope that's not the truth because if it is the truth then McGuire and the other three council members have not learned something from this experience because if it is the truth then it's very self-centered it's about how can I I'm gonna take this down to not harm me to not harm my message to not harm my methodology and to me that's not what representation is all about I know that this meme gets used but in my 12 years in public service sitting in that chair in different places I've never seen a council member use this kind of imagery of gun violence and death which causes a tremendous amount of heartache and grief in our country in our community use that to express their political position I was a member I've been a victim of gun violence 18 years old God puts a gun in my side I figured probably much I wouldn't have made it past that night but I did so this kind of imagery I don't care if my name's on it or not it's about using this to represent something and trivializing gun violence in our country so I'm gonna end with a quote it says it better than what I can say it cowardice asked the question is it safe expediency asked the question is it politic vanity asked the question is it popular but conscious asked the question is it right and there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular but one must take it because it is right anybody know who said that it's Martin Luther King jr. do the right thing just admit it was poor judgment just admit it's something that won't happen again but let's not let the community think that we have elected officials that this kind of behavior and this kind of representation is what we can expect that's your time thank you thank you okay and Rachel yes sir do you have the collar yes give me just a few seconds okay even if you'll press star six you should be in just trying to get the phone line unmuted mayor just one more second please okay mayor she should be able to speak I'm here okay if you could give your name and address you'll have four minutes to speak Eva Greco 802 West Oak Street on here again good evening ladies and gentlemen I have a question I know you can't answer a question but if we could get some guidance on who monitors the road construction crews and for part of this it's part partially on on the signage and perfect example is today I was on University again coming from Bonnie Bray towards Carroll and on the right hand side there was a sign laying in the ground that said construction ends right after that sign there were at least two signs standing up the orange signs white lane closed ahead but it wasn't closed so and this sign is these signs have been here for a few weeks now and then along with this line throughout the town we'll see these orange signs that say either white lane is closed left lane is closed ahead and then as you drive ahead either no lanes are closed or the opposite lane is closed and this has been discussed in Denton social groups quite often it's very frustrating it it just exacerbates a serious problem with our traffic and the next item is so I just want to know is there somebody you know or some entity that monitors you know these road crew don't put these signs up especially with the influx of so many new people in town it's confusing it's it's hazardous to the drivers and the next the quality of the smaller road paving so not the big ones like Barney Bray but smaller roads if somebody checks their work or money we're spending a lot of money and we're not getting the quality that should be there one of my sons actually does ask for paving for a living so now on Bolivar from University going towards Congress that road was just paved and I don't know too much about asphalt but my son does my son said it's horrible the workmanship is horrible he says within one year that that road will be cracking and the areas along the curbside which is called the edging will be falling off in pieces because it's not properly edged and what else did he say oh the round metal things in the middle of the road I don't know if it's a sewer cap or water cap but the asphalt is below that so they're raised above which creates a hazard for drivers I know on Bolivar there it's pretty dark too so you're hitting these going at like 30 miles an hour or more and that's hazardous to the driver and the third item I received an email from spectrum yesterday saying that they're preparing for service outages already and that's which means that's four minutes yes okay so if you wanted to complete your complete your thought they're around yes it's not yeah it's not real long but spectrum you know notify me that they're preparing for service outages for myself it means I will lose TV and internet cell phone or internet we know all know in a lot of areas in Denton is very sporadic on a good day so we will probably lose that service also these are things that we should have already been planning and if roads will be as icy as predicted for the safety of employees there probably will not be any public transportation and that's your time thank you sir thank you very much I appreciate it okay and there's have a good evening everyone likewise thank you there's one other open mic I'm sorry Matt ransom yes sir if you can give your name and address yes sir and I live in the city of Denton yes sir and I just want to say like this this this whole covert thing I'm sorry it's over man the pandemic's over please people move on with your lives this thing is getting ridiculous now and I just want to say I want to commend the police officer there was an incident where there was a shooting where he actually saved the life of a girl who's had a knife to his neck I want to commend that officer he's a true hero and if Metzler would have had his way the Metzler this Bernie Sanders nutjob is running for mayor I'm telling you right now yeah I'm looking for you looking at you right now he would send a he would set a social broker out there to try to talk him out of that I mean completely nuts this guy is the guy who wants to legalize not only marijuana but all drugs they won't legalize everything fentanyl crack heroin I've done all the research in this they want to go everything and they want to do taxpayer-funded drugs too and then you look into the shelters you look into the jails that's most of people in there aren't drugs most of these people that are that are homeless they're drug addicted and they want to make more people on drugs I'm sorry this is absolutely obscene that these people want to that they're where these people are going I mean and then I want to talk about this thing like you want to talk about the emergency plan and emergency they want to codify a plan that is totally obscene too so now you want to do a plan that's set in stone so when there is an emergency it's going to handcuff the mayor it's going to handcuff the manager and then you're gonna have to do emergency meeting get everybody together in a quorum to try to revise the plan and if you can't get everybody in America's an emergency you can't get everybody in a quorum then how you gonna revise the plan it's gonna totally handcuff the mayor and and the city manager in an emergency I'm telling you I don't know where these people are getting these ideas from because I'm telling you it's totally lost I mean if these people had a brain they would be dangerous and I'm saying I pray every day that this guy Messler and back and never get elected again because let me say so I got a plan you can put in stone if there's an emergency we just send all the brought into Brian Beck's office and Miller's arm house send it their house use their counter and take their bank accounts and let them to deal with them thank you okay Rachel do you have any other callers no sir I do not okay forget that takes us to our consent agenda there is nothing pulled so I'll take a motion Councilman McGuire I move approval of the consent agenda is there second Councilor Beck I second motion by Councilman McGuire second by Councilmember Beck any discussion seeing none Councilor McGuire how say you I Councilman Beck I Councilor Byrd I Councilor Davis I mayor protein Melter I Councilor Marmotor yes mayor has but there's a as well that passes 7-0 takes us to our public hearings I do believe yes we have one we have one speaker and for I'll note that before we even get there on the items for individual consideration which will be after this public hearing you have to turn in a card before that item is called so if there's anyone that wants to speak on any of those individual items for consideration you need to fill out a card before that item is called so giving your head start there so the first item on public hearings is PD 21-0004 B hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance of the city of Denton Texas regarding a plan development amendment for 12 acres out of Plan Development 139 generally located on the southeast corner of the vintage boulevard and I-35W good evening mayor membership council I'm Julie Wyatt and I'll share my presentation with you now okay and while you're doing that I'll open the public hearing so that I don't forget are you able to see my presentation yes thank you okay great okay this I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the city of Denton and I am presenting PD 21-0004 B and the request before you is for a plan development amendment it's it's for a development plan for plan development 139 the subject property is located at the southeast intersection of the I-35 ramp and vintage boulevard shown on your screen outlined in yellow it's a 12-acre property and the applicant is proposing a multifamily dwelling use this is a little different than our our new PDs that are being established this is a PD that was established prior to our adoption of our 2002 Denton development code and and with the implementation of the 2019 code we included provisions for these older I consider them legacy PDs where the permitted uses and development standards that were established with those PDs can move forward so so any development site can be consistent with those approved uses and development standards but that the procedures and a mandatory regulation should follow the current Denton development code so a little bit about PD 139 it was established in 1991 as a 450 acre business village it included a variety of uses one of the permitted uses in PD 139 was a residential and multifamily with a maximum density of 20 dwelling units per acre so the proposed use is permitted within the PD the PD also included development standards in particular setbacks related to the I-35 corridor there and so staff has reviews their site plan based upon the criteria or the the development standards within PD 139 as well as our current standards they are proposing 207 dwelling units that's about 18 dwelling units per acre so it's within that maximum 20 dwelling units per acre they're proposing three access points one to the north along vintage Boulevard one to the future commercial development there is a an out lot just north of the subject property so there is a driveway connection to that for future development and then finally a third connection to the I-35 frontage road this would be emergency access we have started talks with text out regarding that access point they have tentatively agreed to that access point but because it is a text out road the applicant will have to seek full text out approval of that access point and if for some reason text on does not grant it they will have to seek an alternative access point for emergency access the plan also includes open space it the center portion has as amenities including a pool clubhouse gazebo playground and then open space and then in order to meet those setback requirements and and in order to separate the living spaces from the highway the the projects inwardly focus so that the living areas and recreation areas are in the center of the site with that vehicular moving toward that toward the maneuvering toward the outside of the site and we did review the project against the regulations within PD 139 as well as our current standards it is consistent with the overall goals of Denton plan 2030 as well as that the plan development the design does include those open space areas and there is adequate capacity to serve the development so we did look at the comprehensive plan and and because of the age of the project we looked at a variety of comprehensive plans we actually look back to the one prior to the to the Denton plan 2030 the 1999 2020 Denton plan and it's it's a little difficult to see but in the middle of your screen you could there's an arrow pointing to the subject property it's sort of in a yellowy color that is that mixed-use community mixed-use center that was the future land use designation of the subject property and that was intended for a mix of uses including those higher density housing and that was consistent with the with the PD that's in place on the site today with the adoption of the Denton plan 2030 it did it did transition to low density residential for the future land use the proposal is not consistent with that is that's typically more of a suburban development pattern about one to four dwelling units per acre but it does comply with the overall goals of the Denton plan 2030 and in particular on goals related to a variety of housing options within the city and also our affordability goals as this proposal is is an affordable project and then finally we also looked at the draft Denton plan 2040 and that is the bottom map that you see as you may be aware there are transportation and mobility changes in forthcoming in this general area loop 288 will be extended in the upcoming years and will eventually connect to I-35W near the subject property on the on the west side of 35w and so due to those mobility changes the the draft Denton plan 2030 indicates that this is future land use is regional mixed use and the proposal is consistent with that a little bit more about the transportation within the area so the subject property is located in about this location along I-35 and as I mentioned south of vintage boulevard vintage boulevard is an arterial and and it has been under construction and is nearing completion with a four lane divided road I-35W is also slated for improvements in the coming years reconfiguring that that access ramp to a more typical diamond intersection removing those those horseshoe access ramps and then and then also recently a a signal was installed I believe at the I-35 and vintage intersection and if that's not operational it will be soon so public outreach was done for the for the request the applicant held to I'm sorry for neighborhood meetings and we have received 15 responses in opposition and two in favor the responses in opposition generally come from the the residential neighborhood just to the east of the subject site so based upon the criteria for approval and the permitted uses within the within PD 139 the planning and zoning Commission recommended recommended approval of the request with a staff recommended condition on staff also recommended approval of the request and we do have one condition and that is related to those development standards so because of the age of this PD it was those 1991 definitions would apply to the development of the site the 1991 code defined lot width at the at the building setback line which would be closer to that vintage boulevard because this site plan has that has a panhandle or a flagpole I'm setting this projects a little further back from vintage we do recommend a recommended condition that that lot width definition within the 2019 code be applied to this project whereby that that flagpole portion would be disregarded in that measurement of the lot width and I will the applicant is here and I will be happy to answer any questions okay thank you any questions for staff before the applicant presents councilor Davis thank you mayor Julie just real quick so I'm totally clear and that in the public's clear so the use is already approved through the PD process that they went through years and years ago they're approved to have multifamily on this parcel holding over through many different iterations of the PD but because of the terms of the PD the council has to approve the site plan is that correct yes sir the that use was permitted with the PD I would add one one correction to that really the site plan is actually going through a major amendment process which is in the 2019 debt and development code so this is it's it's an amalgamation of the use and the process which was established with that implementation of the 2019 code got it thank you and then if I'm understanding that the presentation correctly in the additional information from staff there are in the current plan three proposed entrances or exits from the from the project one is emergency only to I'll call it the whole the horseshoe currently or eventually a frontage road one is to vintage Boulevard and then one is just a stub out to the adjacent property to the north or I guess the remainder parcel to the north yes sir okay are there any other points of egress or ingress or any other stub outs in the plan no sir okay and I think staff's response to my question before was that the vintage driveway I'll call the main drive the mint the vintage driveway is about 520 feet from the current text dot facility is that correct that appears to be that the measurement that I've that I measured earlier today yes sir okay thank you awesome more questions about that for the applicant thank you okay any other questions for staff counselor back thank you mr. mayor so um my question is similar to some of the ones that councillor Davis just asked and so I just I'd like a little more clarity even though you answered him I'm trying to understand we we generally have let me let me put it let me ask it in a different way is the code under which we developed such that we need to have the standard two entrances and for development that that I'm expecting or is there a different standard that's being applied they would have to meet emergency access so they would have to provide it at least two entrances one at least being emergency only in order to meet fire requirements so that is the the requirement that they have to meet so for example if if text dot does not approve that that driveway they would have to seek an alternative solution and given I mean hopefully all the ducks would get in a row if we were to vote to support this but if text dot just dug in their heels and gave them no permission at all and they'd already been development would are I guess my question is would we allow would we would they be permitted to commence with development or would they have to wait until they had that final or if safe text dot said no question so if this is approved this evening in the current configuration their next step in the process would be platting and as part of that they would be developing their civil engineering plans so they would look at you know designing and engineering the site as part of that review they would have to submit for text dot approval for that driveway and at that point text dot would either approve or deny that driveway so it would this it would be the front end that that would get approved while the while the plans are being engineered okay and well I will I won't compare apples to oranges I won't compare to this to another property but there are similarities that concern me to a couple other recent approvals that we've done or are not done and then the other question I had was that the use that we had for the PD what was when we put the PD back in in 1999 and we had the sort of a mixed use I forget the designation it's not it was an MN at the time but the anticipation was that this intersection would get developed with with typical highway crossroad sort of you know mixed-use retail II kind of that was the anticipation back in 1999 yes sir okay and and and but we we when we didn't have that in the comprehensive plan that should have been aligned with the will of Denton at the time and then boots on the ground at the time conditions on the ground at the time that plan said well okay no we're revising that we don't feel that anymore it's low residential right that's what the 2030 plan went to yes our Denton plan 2030 did designate the property is where residential and it's around it and I well it seems to me that that means that we we recognize that it didn't develop and we changed our minds and and so the the remnant the remnant PD kind of became a sort of a non-conforming not use but in non-conforming in alignment with the 2030 plan at the time hmm okay thank you Catherine Burke you said there were two individuals that was for the plan and 15 individuals that responded there was not for the plan can you tell us generally what is what was their primary complaint other than an apartment complex next to my house not in my backyard is that it um there were there were discussions related to traffic and transportation there were also some concerns regarding the affordable nature of the project and concerns about density and lack of you know more retail in the area so they were concerned that because they're they're lacking those things they were concerned about the people that will be moving into the apartment complex lacking those services well that's what I'm hearing do it with speaking of retail I don't know if this means a heel of beans or anything but I'm gonna ask this anyway what's the prospects of retail coming out that way to support that community as a whole anyway would you have any idea about that I don't have any idea about that the applicant may know more about that remainder a lot at the inner at the border I don't just seems like to me by the time they would build those apartments there there would be some you know additional retail of some type especially grocery stores I know that we have a significant problem in this city anyway with the food deserts here and there in certain areas so thank you so much I appreciate it okay any other questions yes mayor Tina Fergens W director development services I guess just to assist Julie with that last question from councilmember bird if that's all right certainly thank you sir councilmember bird you you make an interesting point or question there with respect to additional retail services presuming you know with it with the mobility plan changes that would be occurring there with loop 288 intersecting with I 35 I would anticipate that there would be interest for additional retail development within the proximity of that intersection just because of the nature of the two highways coming together you know with as you all are probably recall with other areas of town and how they've developed typically you have to have the residents there in the densities there in the population there if you will in order to be able to have been the commercial development follow unfortunately commercial development doesn't happen first and then the residents come second it's the residents are there first and then the commercial development because the businesses need to have the buying power within the area okay thank you any other questions for staff see none okay applicant Amy you representing them and I think it's someone helped me out ten minutes total 20 minutes total if there's two what's your mayor 20 minutes total if there's more than one got it okay so ten minutes if there's one correct thank you so you have ten minutes unless you're thank you mayor council members Amy visit 97 land company 109 North Elm Denton 76 201 can everybody see my screen okay great and I do have two other representatives here with me that I'm going to introduce and there's no intention for them to speak but they can be available to answer questions and so I think we'll probably stay within that ten minute time frame unless at some point one of them wants to come up and join me I'd have Jake Brown with LDG development he represents the company that will be developing the property and I have Greg Westcott with Dunaway engineering so we had some engineering specific questions that he may be available to answer if necessary I'm not gonna be redundant in what Julie has already presented tonight project summary is here it is 207 units seven buildings 425 parking spaces and a unit mix that is predominantly two and three bedroom and this is a tax credit development and that is a part of the four percent tax credit development projects that are coming online in Denton currently and I do want to note that the last time I was here before you with a tax credit development I heard loud and clear that you wanted to see these types of developments occur in other areas of town to be more accessible for residents and to not concentrate them all in one area so when I had the opportunity to represent this project I was excited to be able to I knew then that at some point I would be coming back here bringing this development forward for your consideration as well so I do want to point out what there's already been a little bit of discussion about this PD 139 is a legacy PD it was defined it was 450 acres defined as a business village back in the 90s when the zoning was approved it included hospitality medical manufacturing offices residential and multifamily and to councilmember Beck's question about the consistency with the didn't plan 2030 I think I've certainly seen multiple times where the didn't plan 2030 has a zoning a future zoning designation that is not consistent with the existing zoning on it today and that is really the instance that we're in now we're trying to develop under what is already entitled in terms of allowable land uses including multifamily were called out in the original PD documents I also want to address furthermore the consistency with the future land use plan while that future land use plan does call for low density residential the dent in plan 2030 repeatedly refers to the preferred growth concept as being areas identified for a mix of uses and a higher density of uses and I would like to point out that the intersection here that is the future intersection of loop 288 and I 35 W is called out as one of those higher density mixed use areas right at that node along I 35 W which is where this project is being proposed to take place and so while the future land use map may not directly call that out in the preferred growth concept in the same document it does identify this as a as an area where this would be appropriate as Julie said we did have some neighborhood engagement I want to go into a little more detail about that I won't be long about it and we had two neighborhood meetings that we attempted to hold in November and mailing to those within 500 feet of the property line we did not get any RSVPs or attendees we do have two letters in support of those immediately neighboring property owners when we when we were scheduled to go to the Planning and Zoning Commission in December we began to hear some opposition from the neighboring vintage homeowners Association when our signs went up and because of that we did I'm sorry we were scheduled to go in November and because of that opposition we wanted to give that neighborhood an opportunity to hear about the development and ask questions and express concerns so we actually requested a postponement to December to allow ourselves time to do that now I'm wrong again it was originally December we postponed to January for planning and zoning commission I apologize so we did have two additional neighborhood meetings that were intended directly to work with and communicate with the vintage HOA and had approximately 22 people in attendance and the concerns that we primarily heard were related to crime property valid values density and the fact that this is an affordable housing development there were a lot of questions and concerns that this was a section 8 housing development which this is not this is a development that is at 60 percent of market rate meaning that those who live there must qualify with income of 60 percent of the median average income for Denton County but we did I just want to point out that we did go back and hold those neighborhood meetings and postpone to have an opportunity to do that very briefly engineering details here we did do a full traffic study that was approved by the city administratively prior to us coming to public hearing and we have two primary entrances one being vintage and one being along I 35 W there has been a lot of conversation with the city over the past months about that connection to I 35 W we do recognize that the project cannot develop without some sort of secondary access point that meets fire code requirements and that there is no guarantee at this point that that text dot entrance would be approved at that location or at this point in time so while this we've got to make it through zoning first and then it will be immediately moving into preliminary plat and civil plans and textile permits but the developer and owner fully understands the risk associated with that if the access is not available at this point in time landscape and tree details we are preserving 100% of heritage of quality trees on site and planting 40% canopy coverage for new plantings point this out because the PD when it was adopted in 1991 did not have this type of standard and but per the straight PD we were not required to comply or exceed the 2019 development code but we worked hard to do that in all instances we have 36% pervious coverage we have a 20-foot landscape buffer along I 35 W and 16.9% open space here is a rendering of the building elevations generally what they would look like and that is all I have but I'm happy to answer any questions and also have Jake and Greg here with me if you have specific questions for the developer or the engineer thank you okay thank you questions for the applicant I have had multiple conversations with the current property owner that is holding the remainder of that tract and they are intentionally holding it for commercial and retail development and it's just a matter of getting the rooftops and this the people there first to take access and utilize those services but I anticipate at this point that you may see me again working on a site plan for what's remaining okay counselor Davis thank you mayor Amy I think you know where I'm gonna go with some of my questions first of all thank you you've made a good argument I think for that past future land use maps were a little out of step with what was likely to develop there and what kind of inconsistencies I think you've pointed out some of the benefits to this process over what's already entitled under the PD preservation that kind of stuff true preservation I'm really still concerned with egress and ingress and can you pull up any slide you've got that's got the site plan and includes vintage whatever whatever you think best illustrates let's see here yeah that'll work okay even that last one there so I guess the way we've built out vintage right now it's four lanes divided there is there's a break in the island I guess some distance to the to the west of your proposed main entry on vintage but it would essentially be a right in right out is that is that correct if there's a if there's a divided median right right in front of your if there is a divided meaning and that's correct I don't know if we're proposing an opening and maybe able to answer that more closely but if there if there is a median it would be right in right out okay and is there any particular you've got an interesting site to work with and you've got some some different some different challenges on the parcel can you kind of help us understand the story of how the driveway ended up there where it is at the kind of the far eastern extent of the of the main parcel there and the driveway off of vintage so I I'm gonna attempt to answer this but I'm gonna invite back up up here if they would like to join me and so the the seller of the property who owns all of this currently wanted to retain a hard corner for commercial and retail and wanted to to maintain the integrity of that hard corner and so I think that access is kind of already on the line between the property to the southeast that has been sold for the private school and so this was just kind of the the right location in terms of being able to not not not bisect that lot to make it difficult to develop founders Academy folks they've got the parcel to the to the east and that hard corner stays and then tech stock comes in and builds out the new 35 the frontage road the 288 flyovers that go off to the west how much I guess what I'm asking is where are the driveways for that new retail gonna go if you know let's say we've got a racetrack or a strip center or a McDonald's and a Popeyes that go in at that hard corner where did those and that's an engineering question but how much room is left for those driveways because the other thing I'll point out this is in the backups is the 35 schematic has the gore the V where vintage goes from big old loop 288 down to four lane divided vintage it has that pretty far to the to the east so I'm just kind of wondering where where those driveways are gonna go and how that interacts with travel speeds access roads all that kind of stuff to my knowledge there's no concept plan currently for the hard corner and I think probably putting putting that access point as far east as possible the intention there is to potentially be able to get another access point off of vintage but also putting it on a property line like they have one point of egress and ingress to then provide common access across all those lots I don't know if that would be that intent but that really is going to ultimately depend on the speed limit on vintage Boulevard and the configuration of that text dot just kind of where it next down from there and and the distance separation between those driveway points so anytime the project is coming through the development process they have to meet minimum separation requirements between driveways or they have to seek a variance for that and they have to be able to provide some sort of mitigation for for safety concerns that might arise from that and show through a traffic study that it is feasible without creating any sort of safety issues now that's a very broad answer but it's all I've got right now in terms of I don't know where the proposed access points might be I just know that we would be subject to those text dot and city separation requirements in order to make that happen those are those are very good answers and my concern with those and exactly what you described is that stub out to the north you know calling that an egress or ingress assuming that's going to develop at some point I feel like that hard corner is going to develop with some pretty strict requirements on where they put their driveways because they're a hard corner that's what you do when you're a hard corner on a frontage road then the emergency emergency access from the horseshoe it might correct and staff correct and tell us that that entrance that's of the far the far western entrance from what's currently a horseshoe the one that has to get text on approval that's an emergency only that's fire trucks ambulance police only so and I believe that the intention of the developer all along has been to ask for full access but the city staff analysis of the tech stock constraints associated with that intersection they believe that emergency access is most likely all they're going to be willing to provide which is adequate for the needs of the of the development to move forward and I think we would ask for full access and we've already had some conversations where we've learned that the location of that access may have to move and that may cause a minor PD amendment to occur and we've agreed that we're willing to do that a minor PD amendment is administratively approved is the developer do you know is a developer willing to limit that to emergency only I think I've got the same concerns that text dot does that you have a full access apartment entrance on a on a frontage road and things stack up but the gate doesn't open for somebody and so you know you gotta and you gotta wait and you're out in the middle of frontage road with turning traffic but I think the answer is yes he's willing to limit it if that's a concern for council that from from a safety standpoint and that's what you'd like to see then we would be willing to make that it's that if that's limited I don't I don't know that there's a city requirement for signage unless we added added one but for something that said emergency access only so you don't have somebody driving up there figuring out they can't get through the gate and then having to back back into access road traffic absolutely I would imagine that that would be critical component to it especially being one way on that frontage road like that and I do think that they are generally labeled but we would want to look at the placement of signage so that you can see it before you make the turn and get trapped in there thanks see none okay thank you very much all right any other discussion I'll take a motion councilor Davis mayor are there any other callers or anybody no no other callers and I don't think let me double checks staff any any callers no not for this one mayor I haven't received any more since one more time I'm sorry no I do not have any callers for this one okay thank you so any anyone else wanting to speak it's open item so if you want to speak you didn't come down and then you'll just have to fill out a card after the fact see none councilor Davis and I'll close the public hearing sorry go ahead mayor I move approval of the item with the staff recommended condition approved by planning and zoning and the additional condition that the western entrance from the textile facility be restricted to emergency access only and be marked both at the entrance and 50 feet 50 feet before the entrance on the mainland of travel okay we have a motion come from Burt I second okay motion by council member Davis second by a council member bird any other discussion council member Beck thank you mr. mayor so so I will before we go to vote and I will I will point out that that while I appreciate councillor Davis's trying to find a path forward for some of the sick the the entrance requirements that that clearly concern us both we've had another a number of properties of a similar nature with similar restricted access and and we've rejected those or or forced significant changes some some existing some in development and and I think that I would like to see affordable housing on this side of town I would like to see them the mix change because for the reasons that miss beset alluded to that you know we do tend to over concentrated affordability in certain regions but I feel like we're you know we're providing in a fun affordable home type concept and then we're giving them safety concerns with their entrances and exits that don't align with a lot of our our other components of development that we've been doing lately you know they're they're supposed to be affordable but we're not really walkable anywhere they're supposed to be affordable but they don't yet have retail and I accept the Miss Bergens you know you know we don't get the retail in advance like we'd like but I think there's a there's a sort of different standard when we're applying for an affordable property then then a market rate or a luxury property where you know market rate and luxury are going to have the kinds of mobility access that won't depend on transit that's not running out to this property and and so I I think that for me the ducks just really aren't aligning even though I really would like to see more retail here I really would like to see some affordability in this location it's not the concepts it's sort of the perfect storm of the components not not working for me too many too many risk factors with text thoughts expansion not aligning to the way they want so I don't I don't feel like I can support this particular concept plan I wish there was another one you know similar that I could could support and I could see my way clear to doing that but but not this one okay any other discussion counselor armature so councilmember Davis made a motion correct correct yeah so I will gladly second that motion counselor bird already seconded thank you but oh I'm sorry I missed that must be a zoom sorry I can't remember bird okay I just want to mention there might be a concern potentially with enforcing the sign requirement on the text out right away we don't have jurisdiction to put signs up text out right away so one of the conditions about having a sign within that travel lane might be unenforceable by the city I guess there needs to be some direction is to the extent if text out refuses to allow a sign what the consequence of that counselor Davis thanks mayor I'll respond to Mac and then also a little bit of commentary on what councilman Beck had so I can certainly amend the language I think I said the main lane of travel I mean it's probably not very good term of art but I don't know that it necessarily has to be in the right of way I mean I don't know how much wiggle room they've got between landscaping and and the text out right of way or anything like that I have to I honestly don't remember verbatim what the condition was as I stated it so I saw Julie writing Julie did you catch it I did not catch the location of it just that it should be 50 feet and then at the driveway Tina I caught 50 feet in advance of the driveway so and you know to me that's probably the null likelihood viewed as a directional sign and so we could work with text art and to see what we could do regarding the placement of that sign given that the directional sign I mean it's possible it may be able to be accommodated somehow on private property so that's not within their right of way but but we could also we could reach out to text out and on and see if they had any concerns with respect to it okay thank you any other discussion just very quick oh yeah counselor Dave starts so I said many times when we were discussing other projects around town you know back when this was part of district 3 bring it on to district 3 there's lots of there's lots of room to grow lots of places to put affordable housing in district 3 I take councilmember Beck's point about amenities and retail and the availability of services and those sorts of things but we know that those things follow rooftops not the other way around there there won't be a gas station there at that corner until there's a bunch of people who are going to buy gas there there won't be a grocery store in that part of the world until there's a bunch of people to buy groceries there so unfortunately I think the rooftops the people have to go first and then we see the other development that we want to see you know if we were playing Sim City and just putting stuff if I had an apartment complex in a grocery store in my back pocket I'd put them exactly where I think they need to go but right now we have a developer who's willing to build affordable housing on a difficult and challenging parcel with a lot of weird entitlements already so I think we take the bird in the hand okay any other discussion councilman Beck thank you mr. mayor I agree with councilor Davis if this was market rate or luxury I think there's a different standard I think that when you're putting in affordable you have people that have mobility challenges that have distance constraints that have mass transit constraints you know that have safety constraints that are in excess of normal typically you know I don't I don't want to put any any real conditions on them but let's we'll just say typically and and I think that this is my concern here is I would have I would probably fall out a different way if no I would still have safety concerns so I'm not sure I can really say that but I might fall out a different way with a different concept plan with with different access it for a market rate or a luxury development even though I think we all are sort of saying that we would like to have a portable in in this region so I think we have a different standard that we need to operate on and I appreciate that there's a bird in the hand I hope the bird the hand will will you know if if this doesn't pass we'll continue to try to develop him okay any other discussion we're just going back and forth here which I'm gonna cut it off consumer armature yeah I don't think I has spoken yet on this but yeah I just wanted to add that I'm going to be supporting this project and you know I don't think that we should have a higher or a lower standard you know for safety for certain kinds of housing we have a base safety standard and of course you know that all outside of city standards and state and federal guidelines that will depend from individual to individual but for me it's so important to have affordable housing and so I am I'm very glad to support this project mayor protein Melter yeah I mean I could make this comment while voting yes I've been very torn throughout I actually agree with just about everything that's been said on both sides and just on balance I mean there are things that are not great about it in terms of walkability in terms of not fitting future land use map but it is an opportunity to do affordable in that area and and and it will be part of the even though I didn't vote for it will be part of the coming kind of hunter coal part of the world which will necessarily have its own retail and amenities you know that will ultimately serve this community as well so I'm going to be voting yes okay anyone else okay great so I guess what satisfies it kind of got to my thoughts one the traffic component if they don't get the access then that that how we vote is muted if you will so I take peace in that - this entire area is going to be a mess as I 35 expands and they build the service roads that sort of thing so to predict how that's going to flow and and how that's going to look don't know but what I do know is it'll be able to handle capacity more than it's ever would before because it's gonna have a brand-new service road brand-new highway and and then also I point out I think the other thing that's noteworthy to me is they have the best route going and that they're gonna have they're gonna exit their their complex and go to Bonnie Bray which is brand-new expanded has a brand-new bridge has pedestrian walkways that sort of thing so and then I couldn't pull it up fast enough but I think if it's not there we can make adjustments when that time comes if it comes but that is the benefit of the go-zone component is you can get services you can get rides to these areas like this without having to manipulate bus routes you just activate that zone and then all of a sudden those that are living in it so in this area have access to those things so I think that's that's noteworthy for me as well just you know it's in all things just as long as there's some notice that that says they're right next to the fire training center and smoke coming over that way is is they understand that the gun range is there they'll have to understand that and assuming they understand those things and they're you know that that doesn't give anyone heartburn that's moving in there I think it's a good fit you see the similar uses along that 35 W corridor as you get in the Keller and some of those areas more populated areas along 35 W so that that gives me peace of mind so here we go. Councilmember Davis aye. Councilmember Burt aye. Councilmember McGuire aye. Mayor Proctor Meltzer. Could fact check I think it might be outside of the go-zone zone but something to maybe influence going forward aye. Yeah no that's that's what I said but thank you. Councilmember Armitage. Yes. Councilmember Bet. Nay. Mayor Husspeth has an aye as well. Passes 6-1. Thank you. Good luck with your project. Good luck with Tech Start. May the force be with you. Okay great so that so that concludes our public hearings so it takes to envisage consideration. First item item A ID 22198 consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton authorizing the submission of an application to the Federal Emergency Management Agency FEMA which is 2021 staffing for adequate fire and emergency response safer grant in the amount of three million seven hundred thirty one dollars sixty wait yeah three million seven hundred thirty one thousand six hundred seventy six dollars to fund this the salaries and benefits of twelve full-time employees to staff fire station future fire station number nine and providing for an effective date. Good evening Mayor City Council Kenneth Hedges Fire Chief got a quick presentation let me share my screen. Thank you. Okay you see a full screen now? Yes sir. Okay so this is just a request for submission for the 2021 government is running year behind for the safer grant and staffing for adequate fire and emergency response grant program. This program has been around for numerous years and it's really intent is to provide funding directly to fire departments to help increase or maintain the number of trained frontline firefighters available in the communities. So as a deal of facts for the 2021 submission period there's 560 million allotted this is up about 150 million from previous several years for this 2021 cycle also it's a hundred percent reimbursement this is the third year they went with hundred percent previously it was a matching grant so what we're talking about is a 36 month performance period with zero cost to the recipient. Submission deadline is this February 4th Friday we have utilized a contract a grant writer in the past and we are on this one as well so for a small fee of $1,200 grant writer has the knowledge and experience to write this grant and program specific keywords that assist in scoring as well so we have had three successful grants submitted by this grant writer in the past for a total of I have this calculated we had one in 2016 2019 and most recently 2020 for a total of 12 FTEs. Action to this point so this has went through the grant review committee that has been completed and it is before you tonight for approval to submit. So just a little bit about station nine staffing would be a single-engine company a minimum on that will be nine personnel so that equates to three employees per shift ideal is 12 personnel so I would equate equate to four per shift and that's really due to extend responses out to the western city limits. If awarded this grant would pay for salary and full benefits from 2023 to 2026 here's a timeline and there really kind of two parts on this the top is actually the station nine construction process and design the bottom is the award process so we have initiated design of station nine we expect construction to begin later this fall and right now the anticipate completion date will be September of 2023 bottom row you see the grant submissions due February expect notification of award either in September or October this year hiring would be April of 2023 the department onboarding would be complete by August so you'd have those employees train ready to go for the opening of September 2023 and that is it so at this point staff recommends submission of this application I will stop sharing my screen. Okay thank you questions for staff member to Melter if you don't mind I'm gonna go ahead and move approval. Yes sir. Yeah and good luck. Excellent. Councilmember Beck. I'll second. Thank you motion and second. Any other discussion Councilmember Armater do I see your hand? No. Okay thank you. Anyone else? Any discussion? I will say chief I was shopping at twice as nice across the street and the guy said he he took the fire the civil service test and he didn't pass or he passed but he didn't get accepted so thanks for putting me in the hotbox no just kidding no but he was he was very complimentary of the the fire service that their support and he's gonna he's gonna keep testing so appreciate what you're doing again that younger guy I know you're doing a lot of outreach in that way so it was really neat to see that and see them getting active and for those that hadn't taken that test it's a monster man it is it is tough so I appreciate him going through that and doing that and staying after it so thank you very much for presentation any other discussion see none. Mayor for to Melter I'll say you. Aye. Councilmember Beck. Aye. Councilmember McGuire. Aye. Councilmember Burke. Aye. Councilmember Davis. Aye. Councilmember Amater. Yes. Mayor Hussbeth is an aye as well passes 7-0 thank you so that takes us to item 6B through H Danny do you want me to call just the first and you do one presentation and I can call them call them all what's your preference or what's easiest? Yeah if you'd like to call them all I'll do a presentation separately for each one though but that would give you some broader opportunity to ask questions if you'd like to do it okay let me let me do that so it's item B which is ID 22165 consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton supporting generation generation housing partners LLC 9% housing tax credit application to the to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for proposed new construction of the Westview Heights at Denton Apartments and then item C ID 2 2 1 6 6 consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton supporting Prudencia development LLC 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of Torrington Fall Meadow Apartments to provide affordable rental housing item D which is ID 2 2 1 6 7 consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton supporting tax TX legacy Denton LPs 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of the legacy in Denton item E which is ID 2 2 1 6 8 consider approval of a resolution of the City of Denton supporting the new rock development partners Inc 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of residents residences at Parkview and then item F which is ID 2 2 1 6 9 consider approval of the resolution of the City of Denton supporting overland property group LLC 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of the reserves at Magnolia Apartments and then item G ID 2 2 1 7 0 consider approval of the resolution of the City of Denton supporting the over land property group LLC 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of the reserves at Monarch Apartments and then lastly item H which is ID 2 2 1 7 1 consider approval of the resolution of the City of Denton supporting sage brook development LLC and or oh SDA industries LLC 9% housing tax credit application to the Texas Department of Housing of Community Affairs for the proposed new construction of the zeals I think that's right Zessels Zell's apartment for provided affordable rental housing need to go into the apartment naming business they sound over they sound so regal yeah it's gonna ask if you needed a break all right you can be next to UNT it could be the regal eagle okay sorry thank you mayor Danny Shaw Community Services the first presentation I'm gonna bring up is for the Westview Heights development proposal so I'm opening that up if you can let me know if you can see the full screen that would be great yeah so it's not full screen but we see it okay we go oops okay good skip to head on me so this is for a 9% housing tax credit application as you as you read obviously you all are aware that we've had a banner year for these requests it's unusual for us to have this many in a single year so I appreciate you letting us do them all at once in this consideration as a reminder this is the housing tax credit program application that council approved through policy in May of 2018 which just helped us set some expectations and streamline the request process for this the housing tax program itself is administered by the Texas Department of Housing Community Affairs there are two different types we are looking at the 9% competitive program for these applications tonight and these are competitively scored and they are awarded points if they receive the letters of support or the resolutions of support from you all in addition to other options for points that we can talk through as well this particular project is located off of i-35 north of loop 288 it is in district 3 this is the map just to representing that there are no affordable housing units within two miles of this location this is something that's a standard question in the application process and then you can also see where existing multifamily is in this map this is a view of what they're proposing for the for the site it's on 6.3 acres it is currently zone MR so that's mixed-use regional which multifamily is a use permitted by right and this project is a plan to be paying property taxes a little bit of information on how they propose a unit mix so you do see that there are 126 units total 36 of those will be market rate the rest will be anywhere between 30 50 and 60 percent you'll notice that almost 8 percent are under the 30 percent AMI all the way through to 60 percent at 33 percent of AMI we did provide some information from their application on what their estimated rents are for the various square footage and for unit size from one bedrooms to three bedrooms this will be standard affordability and so with that the options tonight for these are to recommend to approve the resolution of support to not recommend the resolution of support or to postpone to a date certain which would have to be the 15th because their applications are due to TDH CA in March so I'm going to take this down and then open it up for questions and just as a reminder the developers are each on the call so today with Chris Applequist is available to answer questions as well thank you mayor for Tim Meltzer yeah thank you you know first just an observation of the power of planning you know that this council expressed a priority around affordable housing we went through a process led by staff you know with a consultant to identify the need and strategies and one of the the biggest ones quantitatively in in toward filling the 4300 unit gap in the next ten years was this kind of tax credit housing which called for an estimated the strategy called for an estimated 600 affordable units per year and there's more than 600 units on the on the agenda tonight including the last item so you know the point being that we kind of put it out there in a very clear about what will support you know the community of developers wants to bring forward things that you're never going to support I do have a question that's not just about this one and Danny I you know hope you can give some guidance on this do do we have any choices to that would involve influencing the mix of how much 30% AMI how much market rate you know etc I mean it's a while there's like on the items that are coming up now there's nearly 600 units but only 63 across all of these by my count at the 30% AMI you know do we have any influence on that or is that one of our points of possible discussion or is it just yes no I think at this point we don't and we have taken that purview earlier on in a 4% but it really shouldn't happen in this part of the process this is really just consideration of the funding requests but you will have this opportunity to have this discussion as this development runs through the development process so that you could have that conversation with them in the development agreement thank you and I'll let Mac answer if I've if I missed up anything there okay any other questions I'll take a motion or for the counter armature and was approval thank you is there a second a second thank you motion by Councilman armature second by Councilmember McGuire any other discussion seeing none Councilman armature house a you yes customer wire I Councilman bird I Councilmember Davis I'm mayor person Meltzer hi councilmember bet I'm sorry you muted I have some concerns about being in this part of town but there's no other affordable in this part of town so I'll tip to an eye okay thank you mayor Hudson's eyes well that passes 7-0 takes us to item C I'm sorry did I miss somebody okay got it okay yeah all right okay so that brings us to the next item which is Torrington fall medal I won't review this but just showing the general location of this one is in district 2 it is at the end of the street there this is a view again of the two two mile radius map that shows the existing multifamily and existing income qualified multifamily with the location of the proposed project this is a site rendering of what this project is proposing it is on 4.5 acres it is currently zoned a residential 7 which would require a specific use permit and specific use standards would apply this project is also proposed to be paying property taxes now just see we're seeing some similar breakdown here from the previous project 170 total units 45 of those are proposed to be market rate and then the unit mix as it's proposed here with a view of the estimated rents and square footage based on the bedroom size this project will be using income averaging which means they will take an annual review of the incomes in the project and then make sure they're meeting that income average as they admit unit mixes could change over over the years so this again is either to recommend the resolution of support to not recommend it or to postpone to a date term okay thank you questions for staff seeing none I'll take a motion okay Councilmember McGuire a question yeah so um I I'm confused about how this property will be accessed can sorry can you put back up the the site map yes for sure and then again the developers on the call here we have Ryan Combs and Scott Turner representing credential one second there you go see it is that map you mean yes but I also think that I just kind of answered my own question so sorry I think I was just misreading the map my apologies okay okay no problem yeah so you can pull that down temporarily any other questions seeing none I'll take a motion counselor armature I move approval okay is there a second second by Councilman Byrd motion by Councilmember armature second by Councilmember Byrd any other discussion see none counselor armature I'll say you yes counselor bird counselor McGuire aye counselor Davis aye counselor bet sorry all right thank you Mayor Pro Temelter aye Mayor Hutzpah has an aye passes 7-0 takes us to item D so this project is the Texas legacy project you all are likely familiar with this you have already approved sorry it's a 9% previously in a previous year and then that the developer requested to amend to a 4% when they weren't competitive in that year you've also seen this project come through the development review process it's a little further along than the others as far as getting approved certain approvals so it is located at Mayhill and McKinney this is the map showing it's a two mile radius with affordable and market rate units in the proximity where this is located it is on sixteen point one acres is our seven it did require an SUP but council approved that SUP on May 24th 2021 this project is out of the other projects the only project that is exempt will be exempt from property taxes and then the unit mix as you can see no market rates with 120 total units 10% at 30% 40% 50 and then 50% at 60% AMI and then the unit mix with the estimated rents and square footage is also included here same options to recommend to not recommend or to postpone to a date certain so that'll take it down and the developer is available on the call should have a questions for them as well thank you mr. mayor daddy so regarding the history yeah we've we've already approved this for a number of tax credits and to move ahead and kind of worked out all our concerns and and support it now going forward so this is just we just missed the deadline or it wasn't competitive and missed it or what's going on we're just reapproving here yeah we're just the developers come forward looking for 9% funding again the project may be competitive in this cycle this resolution just updates some of the information that would allow them to include it in this application so that the appropriate year that references the qualified action plan for the state and some other just really technical changes to help them with their application going forward and this this isn't some this isn't anything against the developer it's just we've kind of missed it before do we think that's likely to happen again I mean I think this isn't gonna affect my vote I'm just trying to get educated on what I know I think it's a great question I think what happened because what you may see also in this cycle is you have seven potential nine percent applications they're likely not all to get funded but just because it's highly competitive in region three there's more than a hundred and eighteen million dollars of requests with you know with only about fifteen million available so these projects may come back to you in fact asking for four percent later on as they rework the the pro forma and the funding for the project so I think this is sort of a standard practice and what they're doing as they're trying to identify funding for affordability all right thank you okay any other questions for staff seeing none I'll take a motion councilman Beck I'll move approval thank you is there a second mayor Pro Temelter I'll second thank you motion by council member Beck second by mayor Pro Temelter any other discussion seeing none councilman Beck I'll say you aye mayor Pro Temelter aye councilmember McGuire aye councilmember Byrd councilmember Davis aye councilmember Armitage yes well passes seven zero takes us to item E okay this project is the residents at Parkview let's see remember which thank you for your patience this down at district four this project is located on FM 1830 near Country Club Road it is it is in an area where there are no adjacent affordable multifamily within the two mile radius and a few market rates and further out in the boundaries this is on 18.52 acres it is planned the developers planning to dedicate 10 acres as a city park on this parcel it is r2 so there's going to be a zoning change request r4 that will come forward to you if that is approved then this project with at our four would still require special specific use permit and those specific use standards would still apply this project will be paying property taxes and as you'll note my first time to see it as well this is townhomes and not multifamily the unit makes for this is 60 units at a hundred percent affordability with thirty to seventy percent and the developer did ask that we note that these units will also be for sale to the tenants after ten years of affordability so it's unique in that way as well you can see the estimated rents and then the square footage for each of those two-bedroom and three-bedroom units same process recommend do not recommend or postpone to a date certain okay thank you I have a question is that I'd love to learn more can the applicant give you whatever they can provide you on their their approach to that owners transition ownership after ten years they're on the call so if you'd like to ask that question Christian Garcia and Jenny's would are on the call like to respond say Christian yes Christian Garcia just like just like in our planning yeah Christian or whoever wants to answer it I just wanted not not to have to answer it now I just want to kind of ask for that information that your approach or just kind of whatever you have there's a white paper I don't know if whatever you have that kind of documents that I'd love to learn more sure yeah I just give you a little bit of background so the call paid allocation plan Texas Department of Housing Community Affairs added a new rule this year which allows that right of first refusal to go to the tenant so did the new rule this year so that is also something that we're preparing for but we can gather some documentation and send that over got it so that's interesting so they stipulate that going forward that that that's is that for all their properties or what's the what's the catch that triggers that well it's a point item so this is a competitive process where you know one point could put you in a losing position right so this is something that we're choosing to do we also think it's a differentiator you know to offer these units for sale or at least the right of first refusal to the tenant I I believe in that part of the process so you know this is something we want to try to do and bring to fruition got it okay great that's and I agree with with the competitive side of things you're exactly right so well said so let's see what other questions the councilman McGuire thank you I do have one question for staff but first I just kind of want to gush about this project this is definitely my favorite project that we're seeing tonight it's in an area very near to my home which is desperately in need of more affordable housing it's moderate density right it's it's only like 60-something units so you know it's it's sort of near our rural fringe and facilitates that transition to the rural fringe but it is a really good use of the land and they're preserving almost all of the trees the entire ESA donating it as a park it's you know it's serving our goals of promoting homeownership and I'm really I hope that we see more more projects that are taking advantage of this new role because I think that's really really wonderful yeah I love it I think it's fantastic you know it's geared toward families and it's theoretically within walking distance of Ryan Elementary but that brings me to my question for staff what are the plans for Country Club Road and how will those impact this project I wouldn't be able to answer that specifically so is that something we can bring back to you I don't know if yeah I think yeah it's it's not gonna impact my vote so yes it is something I'd like to see it another time you know I know that there's a you know it's got a pedestrian in tech index of two and that's like all the information I can really see about it on the mobility plan so if we could address sure some other time is fine thank you yeah I appreciate that I will make sure we get that out to you Catherine Davis thank you mayor and I apologize if I've missed this information somewhere else or if some has already mentioned it but the can I find out what the status of the gas well is on that larger parcel familiar with that one specifically because the neighbor was one of the folks who talked to us during the they're on Sanders was one of the folks who talked to us during the setback process with concerns that this parcel wouldn't properly develop and so I'm curious what the developers plans are for the gas well on the property oh yeah let the developer answer that if they have a plan thus far hello can you hear me yes we yes we hear you okay awesome so we're currently working with the seller of the property I think it Eagle Ridge energy is the is the operator of the well they've gone ahead and submitted form w3a with the railroad Commission to plug that well so we plan to plug the well with it you know in accordance to the railroad Commission standards so that would hopefully then that at that point once it's not active anymore should allow us to develop the property good deal thank you okay any other questions or I'll take a motion councilor Guar I move approval is there a second councilor armature I second that thank you motion by councilmember McGuire second by councilmember armature any other discussion seeing none councilor McGuire aye councilmember armature yes councilmember bird aye councilor Davis aye mayor Pro Temelter aye councilor Bec aye there has with us the eyes well that passes seven zero takes us to item F all right I think I need glasses sorry all right so this is from our overland property group this is the reserves at Magnolia this this location here is in district 3 these this is a view of the two-mile radius map for affordable and market rate housing one of the things that I wanted to share which was a recommendation from the developer but I thought it was a good one was after having conversations with one of the council members I guess the discussion was about parking and while we won't discuss parking in general one of the things I want to make clear from an education perspective is is that these may be in proximity to the universities but full-time students are not eligible would not meet the eligibility requirements for the affordability so it wouldn't it would likely not be development with students in it it would be more oriented for families so I thought that was a good suggestion on their part to offer that up this project is on eight point nine seven acres is currently zoned are for the uses prohibited so those will require zoning change and the property will be paying property taxes this view of the affordability shows 60 units of the smaller project as well six of those proposed to be market rate with a mix between 30 and 60 percent of the units and then again you see a view of the estimated rents for that based on the bedroom size the this is again recommendation for resolution of support to not recommend or postpone to a date certain okay and with that the developer is on the call for this as well so I have a question all right have they done the analysis on the tree code so this question did come up in in questions from Council in advance of the meeting as well so they have plans to do that but I'll let them talk through what their process is so sorry sorry I missed it but no no it's okay Matt or April would you like to respond to the question and what your plans are I'm sorry you muted Matt you sounded great we couldn't hear it but it's it looked like it was profound can you hear me now yes sir okay good yes we have we've taken picture of the trees we have a couple folks looking at the tree and excuse me in the analysis of those we believe it's a lot of underbrush and shrub type trees so you know on this particular site we believe there there is a handful of trees that that probably are in the species and type that that will want to be saved and so we are adjusting our site plan to specifically address that so it is being contemplated in our site plans okay great just want to make sure I saw a hand was it counselor back thank you mr. Mary and and you and I had the same thought process and it was brought up in the email and I'm I guess it's difficult to imagine how you get around our tree code because I mean the the concept plan is just tear it all out so one of the things that this particular council likes is is a networks of trees and places that provide you know the sort of bio functionality of that and and and I want to vote for these affordable properties I've voted for all of them so far but I'm really greatly concerned about this one and the next one where you're essentially taking a grove and and saying well I'm gonna keep a few trees and and that's not fair to the developer so I would like to hear more and I know this is about the tax credit but is there a point to applying for tax credit if there's not a good way to address the tree issue or sure well I appreciate the question councilor back and and it is one that you know without walking through these sites specifically and looking at the individual trees as we all know there's there's everything from the under shrub to invasive species to you know actual trees that that we want to preserve you know without sounding like I'm pandering to an audience because I'm not you know even as a developer you know trees are extremely important to an overall plan so it's one of those things where without walking through the site and specifically looking at it on a tree by tree basis it's it's hard to say anything other than you know that's what we've done is walk through the sites and look at them on a tree by tree basis we've looked at our site plans we understand that we can adjust the site plans even though you see them today in front of you and know that we can adjust those and make sure that we're preserving the trees that do need to be preserved based on their species you know their diameter so on so forth so I'm not sure if I can answer it any more than that other than you know I think it it takes a tree by tree basis to really you know look at these sites so if if I might mr. mayor yes sir okay so let's let's use hypotheticals instead and say let's say you we approve this and and that makes it attractive to Overland and and y'all want to you start the you know the whole process you submit your concept plan you put your CIP down you know and and a development service could come back and say you know this is this is a lot I mean they're gonna they're gonna throw you know even if council doesn't resist tearing out the tree canopy let's say you know you push forward and it's you know there's a huge for some reason we don't resist him but we accept it but then there's a huge bill to to our tree fund is that gonna negate any savings that you're about to get in the affordability it sort of feels like I don't know you know I think it's not and I think to push back a little bit Matt that it's not it's not species based species and tree by tree that's what we charge but it's it's sort of the whole the whole gestalt impact of that the mayor reacted to it other people in council reacted to it I'm reacting to it I think yeah this is this is a this is dangerous territory not necessarily no but I mean it could be really challenging for Overland to develop these two properties in a way that's affordable to them and that doesn't get tremendous community push back so even if we all say yes tonight you may not be able to do it for other reasons so I think that's I would be wary and we understand that you know again that's why we haven't proposed a substantial number of units on these sites is to give ourselves the ability to to move with with you know what we find out because I can't tell you right now you know what specifically is on that site while I've talked these sites numerous times I'm not a tree expert again you know we have those studies underway right now but we haven't proposed the number of units it doesn't give us the ability to you know take the data that's coming in and to adjust our site plans accordingly so that is one thing that that we specifically have tried to do is give ourselves the ability to to move with the information and make sure that we can actually accommodate what does come in from a study perspective all right I don't know I have to think about it thanks yeah I'm gonna put this out there you know and I'm looking for feedback from the applicant and from staff on whether this is entirely inappropriate or worth talking about but are there timing deadlines that are loose enough to permit you the applicant to do the tree survey first and kind of come back just responding to what you learn and you know you've already seen if you've been watching this meeting this council wants to vote for affordable housing so you know I mean it's up to you how you evaluate the sort of risk aspect of that but that's my observation this council wants to vote for affordable housing so is that doable and palatable really you know a resolution support without that it in these these particular developments so all the resolution support does for us on this particular development or the other one that that we're pursuing is allows us to move to the next stage it doesn't bypass any stages we still have to comply with all of the zoning all of the regulations with with permitting etc so all of these three studies etc will will continue on now and this just allows us to move to the next stage to continue to study those things so it doesn't bypass any stages it just simply allows us to move to the next stage the timeline to answer your question specifically is we have to have a resolution support March 1st on both of these developments otherwise you know they they can't move forward from a scoring perspective well you're seeing all of them in front of you tonight which looks like an equal playing field they're in your your community there they're not they all score differently they're up against countless other developments in the region three metro Dallas Fort Worth so you know for us to continue on with what we're doing we would need support otherwise that kind of ends our journey tonight and you know quite frankly our developments are you know we believe they stack up very very well in the Dallas Fort Worth metro or else we wouldn't be we we would not be moving forward with them so I don't doubt any of that I mean yeah yeah just I'm sorry I'm just saying tonight allows us with your blessing to kind of move to the next phases of due diligence and and allows us to dig deeper but if we I acknowledge all that and it's not out of the question I'm really just kind of feeling my way through this if we could assure you of getting your yay or nay before March 1st would would the available time even plausibly allow for the tree inventory to be done before just so that council isn't in the position of you know kind of buying a bag of magic beans to be very frank with you I I would love to say yes but in today's world of you know crazy timelines I I don't know that's that's the truth you know I take maybe two years ago I could probably tell you a certainty but but today I just I've learned plenty of times from from hard lessons that not to project time lines because the world's a little different so I would love to tell you yes but I can't answer with certainty it would be somewhat difficult for staff to do as well depending on how long it would take to get the information back to us to then prepare the items for use efficiently so so let me just ask staff this question and thanks for indulging your mayor and letting me follow this through so with the stages that will come after this if if it doesn't work out to you know within the tree code and also within the economic palatability of the applicant and you know just doesn't work out are there are there's do the future stages allow us to say no oh yeah yes absolutely you you are only approving the resolution of support which helps them go after the potential funding for their project there will be an entire development review process that you'll be going through with all of these projects where at any given time you could pull the pull the plug or you know create some situation where where the development review would limit their ability to develop okay great I really appreciate that discussion thank you okay councilmember were thank you um I really do share my my colleagues concern about this parcel I don't know that that particular parcel is is the right choice the CAD map is showing that your client owns an adjacent parcel that only has a couple trees on it is that are there plans for that parcel we we have tried some pretty extensive length to there's a if you're talking specifically maybe about the it looks like a metal building to the specifically East is that what you're talking about and I'm talking about a parcel that is directly West that that shares a border with the parcel that we're discussing right now it has frontage on willow wood and it's right next to a single family home there we have tried specifically to get our hands on those actually that particular parcel and the parcel behind it which is a church and based out of a adjoining community we have we've tried extensively extensively to get under control and we have we have been very unsuccessful so it's something that that we have tried to do yeah no I see that there's some land there that's owned by the Iglesia Sobre Sobre la Roca of Denton right but I'm talking about the the property to the east of that 1021 I think it shows yeah so I think it shows that there's there's common ownership there but but it's actually not and again we've tried to get site control we we wanted to get site control in that entire area the church and then the the vacant ground right next to some adjoining vacant ground with no trees on it we were unsuccessful so I know it shows on GIS that those have common ownership but we don't believe that's currently Connor common ownership because we've tried extensively to do that okay thank you for the clarification and so I just want to say so I'm fine with I have concerns about the trees but at this phase that I just want you to be I just wanted to hear your answer and you understand so that you're not shocked when you know that conversation comes up hopefully you're successful hopefully you you're awarded the the funds but then when you come back I just didn't I didn't want it to be a something that we didn't mention or I didn't mention today and I'm happy to discuss if you're successful which again I hope you are that the options about some sort of leveled parking maybe we can maybe consolidate parking again that adds cost and I get all that but you know you're it is a convenient location in that way because you're behind that hotel that maybe there's some kind of there's some pooling of parking options or something like that I will say and I'm sensitive to your your concern because I'm getting phone calls regularly and having meetings regularly because all the property without trees is developed you know it's just it's a real thing and everything we have left is very difficult and fits this model and so that's a challenge for this council and future councils when you're talking about infill development and how to manage that when these I mean every lot is gonna look similar to this I mean again if it's if it's developed its way out and then you got sprawl issues I mean so I'm sensitive to your issues just want to let you know you know buyer beware but so that was the main thing for me at this phase this you know first things first put them in silos yes I think you should be able to get your go after your credits and then we'll see if you're rewarded how it develops councilor armature yes so I to support the application going forward and I'm going to vote yes and can wait to look at it to discuss the tree situation when this comes back to us and I hope you you're successful in that application okay do we have a so whenever I just I move approval is there a second Councilor Armature yes okay motion by mayor Hutz but second by councilor Armature discussion Councilor bet thank you mr. mayor I think you said it well but I'm just gonna reinforce it he the mayor's really trying to warn you that that this isn't quite the slam dunk that some of the others were and and I just you need to know that I mean there's a there's a strong chance that this council will resist even if you get the funding and the approval and I I'm concerned for you as a developer to that we're wasting your time I think there's a significant chance that there's a future no even if we vote yes on this so I mean I don't know what that does to your plans but I think that's it's it's it's it's real and and I appreciate the mayor's you know he's trying to give you warning signals there so I appreciate that for mr. mayor okay any other discussion okay mayor Hutz but Councilor Armature yes councilmember McGuire I'm I don't I'm gonna show my my hand now and say no right now okay Councilor Burke yes councilor Davis I mayor pretend Meltzer I'm hoping for you that it really is a lot of scrub and that you're gonna be very creative and building around the heritage you know invaluable trees and good luck I and who are missing oh there you go Councilor Beck thank you sorry yeah I I guess it's not much of a telegraph I just think this is a waste of your time because I think we're gonna vote no and I'm trying to save you time so I know that it looks like you got the votes tonight but I'm gonna vote no okay so it passes five to two and and Matt if I could sell you on something I'd sell you on trying to negotiate for that white building that's an eyesore right off the off the frontage road if it whatever magic you can work on that bless you thank you very much all right so that takes us to item G which is ID two two one seven zero consider oh we already read it so go ahead sorry thank you yeah so this is the reserves at Monarch this is right on the cusp of district two and three looks like yeah and this is the vision of the two-mile radius map of what's going on with affordable and market rate this is the vision for the project it's on 2.4 acres it's currently zoned a suburban corridor which means a specific use permit will be required with use of specific standards and this project is proposed to be paying property taxes the unit makes here a 72 total units with seven of those being market rate and then a mix between 30 percent and 60 percent of AMI affordable again a view of the estimated rents based on the unit size presented here as well and then recommend the resolution do not or postpone to a date certain this is the same developer and they are available for calls to come to come to Matt's rescue just a tiny bit this this isn't quite the same property it looked at the image is similar in appearance but this really is a former homes completely surrounded by apartments I don't think this is the same concern I do have still the same concern I still want to do the same tree survey I still want to do you know make sure that all the I's are dotted and T's are crossed but this is this is a I think a different circumstance for this infill okay anyone else I will say this yeah so the house there is caught fire a few times what do we know about is this is this in a flood plane area or no is there is there portion of it that's do we know I'm just curious I yeah I don't know that sorry I say don't steal your thunder but we have our engineers currently caught on the trail we do not believe there's a flood plane here there's certainly some grading that will need to be done the apartments to the south set up a little higher it kind of terraces up the hills it goes that way there's some some for rent type storage units that are to the West but but again we believe that you know as as counselor Beck said there's a single-family home on the residence there's holes cut in the roof it's got fire a couple times it needs to be torn down there's substantial trash on the site there is there is some dirt that needs to be brought in but again you know we do need to do tree surveys on the site but we do not believe that it is actually floodplain at all it just it just needs to be properly planned from a site perspective to make sure that the water sheds correctly and that's obviously something we would commit to so okay yeah that's again I hope I hope you do well on it but yeah when that time comes just buyer beware I mean I've had a neighbor I mean I've had the the property owner that has the storage units that it floods regularly and then what used to be it's now whatever the stack house that restaurant it flows all the way through the storage to that restaurant and floods that as well so it is I mean it's significant whatever once you get on there but again you have subject matter experts that will dig in all that just you know that's just from from the I've talking to the property owner over the years the other property owners so no problem any other questions or I'll take a motion comes from Bert thank you most of my councilman bird is there a second councilmember war even though it does look similar yeah this is not as densely treed as the other ones so I'm a little bit concerned but I'm less concerned so I'm going to second okay thank you motion by Councilman bird second by Councilman McGuire any other discussion Councilman Berg how say you Councilman McGuire aye Councilman Davis aye Councilor Beck aye Mayor Pritz and Melter member for the melter I'm sorry thank you councilmember Armitter yes and mayor Hudson as well passes 7-0 thank you that takes us to item H so our final item for tonight on the housing tax credit considerations I'm gonna call it the zycel but we'll see if the developer wants to correct us later this project is on a combination of parcels at Lindsay and Bernard and it is in district 3 as well this is the view of this parcel or this project based on the two mile radius for multifamily and market rate this is the concept plan for this site it's on 1.5 acres it is currently zoned in Mar makes use regional and as this development is permitted by right this project is proposed to be paying property taxes the unit makes for this one on this this side is 87 total units 10 of those are proposed to be market rate with a mix between 30 and 60 and the market rate units the estimated rents again are projected here based on the unit size and so with the final recommendation for resolution of support or to not recommend or to postpone to a date certain that all close it out and then and the developers are on the call and available to answer questions great okay questions account from that thank you mr. mayor so do can someone and unfortunately Danny I it's probably not you I hope is if Tina is still there or something do we know how much frontage the expansion of text thought is gonna be right there you're right I don't know and I'm not sure if Tina's still on she was here earlier but I think I saw her leave so while we while we see if there's something that might answer I will say why I'm asking this question I mean I feel for that that that rental home with the expansion you know we know it's necessary but it it's happening it's it's my concern is having you know an apartment right on top of that frontage that's brand new and at the same token I feel like okay we're pulling at rental homes and I know those those landlords get to do whatever but we just had a huge knockdown drag-out about migrating from from different kinds of homes and some of the most praiseworthy comments tonight were hey town homes and and so there's sort of this concept of you know are we really doing Denton and the future residents of a multifamily in that location the right service for for rental property on that frontage where you know I I'm really ambivalent about the 35 interaction with a brand new property there are a brand new development there I'm not sure that's the I don't know maybe maybe the rest of the counselors can talk me into it okay councilmember bar yeah it was mentioned earlier in regard to the the property near Denia that it would not that students would not be eligible is that is that the case for all of the properties that we're looking at today yes that's a requirement in the program all right so this is not student housing okay no but the developer can jump in if they'd like to clarify any of their plans for who will be residing in these units well before that I have a concern that it's not not a concern I'm okay with the project but want to just understand at what point I would raise this issue so I don't think it's I think I'm early but I just want to communicate early that's right behind Cumberland Children's Home I share councilman Beck's concern about wiping out the four houses but putting that aside is there any do normal kind of duty to report if there's certain levels of convictions that applies irrespective of what goes there is that kind of they need to do their due diligence on who they would lease to make sure there's no one that should not be close to a children's home how does that work all right I'll review that legal stipulation I'm not sure if it applies to the nonprofit it does to schools but I'll make sure and get that information to you yeah because it's like it's likely that you know they would have to register but I'm not sure where if there's a prohibition from the distance okay yeah then that's that's gonna give it again I take your point that we're early but I want to communicate early that if if I can't get comfortable with that then I can't get comfortable with the project so that that's gonna be a big big deal for me so again it has nothing to do with the the support but the support is contingent on and I want to communicate that early so that they can at least know where I fall okay any other questions staff or the applicant and does the applicant want to speak to councilmember Beck's question with respect to what they know about the frontage or those sort of things Megan or Alice are you still on the call give a second in case he's having issues I'm meeting okay looks like she's on the call but I'm not seeing her I'm eating this is Alice can anyone hear me yes thank you wonderful okay let me mute my computer really quickly so you can't hear it echo um yes sorry this is Megan are you able to hear me yes yes we can hear you both now sorry about that I was doing pound six I apologize and wanted to address the council members comments about the four rental houses and this property when we actually found it it was being advertised as a commercial development to be purchased for commercial use with us maintaining this as rentals we would actually be able to replace the rental housing that you know would be you know otherwise certainly replace sorry displaced with commercial development and so we could have the opportunity to work with these residents if you know they so desire I know that they're on a month-to-month lease and several the leases were already terminating which is what kind of prompted the solid and to sell it but you know at least we're replacing it with rental versus the multi missus that could be built here such as commercial as far as the taking of tech spot and we do have we've allotted for that in our site plan we are aware of where that would hit close to our property line and we have addressed that I will say it has been since 2015 and there's might have more up-to-date information than us but it's been from 2015 since they have been in communication with the seller and has been silent since then and if you actually go to their website the plans are no longer available so it sounds like the funds that they were previously putting in this particular location are kind of still being put together before anything would certainly occur okay got it any other questions seeing them I'll take a motion councillor armature and move approval okay is there a second councillor Bert okay motion and a second any other discussion motion by councillor armature second by councilmember bird see none councillor armature I'll say you yes councillor bird councillor McGuire I councillor Davis I mayor portin melter I councillor Beck I'm gonna say yes but but you heard some of our concerns I hope I hope it works out for you may have spent it my husband says I as well and I second what councillor Beck said so thank you very much and that takes us to thank you Danny appreciate that thank you it takes us to our last item item a which is I mean pardon me I which is ID two two two seven zero consider adoption of ordinance of the city of Denton approving three amendments to natural resources conservation services watershed agreement related to the flood control drainage and improvements to add the coal ranch improvement district number one of Denton County the mayor members of council can everybody hear me just fine good evening yes yes this is Ethan Cox general manager of public works for the city it's my pleasure to bring this item to you this evening with me on the line we have representatives from the coal ranch district we have Clay Crawford with Crawford and Jordan law firm Clay's the attorney for the coal ranch improvement district we also have Leonard Dougal with Jackson Walker law firm he's the special counsel to the improvement district specifically for water rights we also have OC best with Southridge Park and OC is the project manager for the coal ranch company that's responsible for developing the coal ranch development okay so the item you have I'm sorry can you make it full screen yes thank you and so the item we have before us this evening for your consideration is essentially related to three watershed agreements that are going to be amended and then they're going to be amended in a way that adds coal ranch as local sponsor as well as a source of funding for the maintenance and improvement of the lakes and associate facilities on their property as those council might may recall in April of 2020 at the council approved the creation of the hunter and coal ranch municipal management districts as part of that approval there were two agreements that were agreed upon as well one of those being the operating agreement and within the section 4.1 of coal ranches operating agreement it identifies and describes the lakes as well as their location within the Denton County soul and water conservation district and it also cites that those are critical pieces of the drainage and flood control system that are going to be serving the development and it required coal ranch to not only prepare an assessment but also to negotiate with the SWC be Denton County regarding the improvements maintenance and the repair of those lakes it's also worth noting that these lakes are also going to be kind of centerpieces for a lot of the the district's plans to develop parks trails and open space so following up on the obligations that were required as a part of the operating agreement whole ranch has entered into negotiations with Denton County SWC be as well as in County coal ranches agreed to become a joint owner of both the dams and the reservoirs that's important because it allows them not only to be a local sponsor but also to provide funding for the maintenance and the repair of those lakes so what you have before you this evening is is really kind of an administrative matter to add coal ranch as a local sponsor to three agreements the first one is an amended watershed agreement that action is going to remove wise and Dow worth SWCD as co-sponsors as they're no longer involved with the property the second agreement is going to be a supplemental watershed agreement to add coal ranch as a sponsor and share responsibilities with the Denton County SWC be and then the final agreement is going to be adding coal ranch as a sponsor for both the operation and maintenance of those structures I know I went through that pretty quickly but we also like I said had the developer on the line and we'll be happy to stand for any questions okay pull that down sir and just quickly to make sure I'm tracking with you so this is in summary to bring that what's the what's the term of art for bringing the the lakes up to a standard since people are going to be living there now so for 100 years it's been empty and no one's near it but now people are going to be near it what's the term of art for the that standard the standard as I understand it is to bring it up to a high-hazard standard but I will defer to Mac Ryan wand or the developer if they want to elaborate on that yeah that's that's fine just I think that that captures it just what do you call it hi what the high-hazard standard yeah and so for me I mean just making sure I have it compartmentalized right so it's basically enabling we're enabling the developer to spend millions of dollars to improve this lake to make it safe for people to live near there I think that's a great way to encapsulate okay councillor Davis brief follow-on to that if I remember correctly and maybe Mac probably has a better recollection of the negotiations than I do but this is something we we required in the agreement with the coal ranch correct that hey y'all gonna build a bunch of houses out there which they could have done by right in some senses if you're gonna build a bunch of development out there you need to take over the watershed and and be on the hook for the massive improvements that gotta happen regardless of what kind of development happens out there really before any further development could take place out there is that am I in the ballpark Mac exactly right one of the concerns the city had was just the expense for maintaining dams and we know that because we've had some of our own dams we've had to repair it through the year so it was wanting to make sure that the district that had funds to do it would be the ones in charge of those dams would have the responsibility to own and maintain them okay any counselor back thank you mr. mayor so so can I follow on from that because I'm is there a distinction between it's in being responsible and having a fiduciary relationship to maintain property or to hold it at a certain standard as part of in development requirements and other soil and water district requirements and and being a part owner so I'm trying to understand that distinction why why the ownership requirement and not just the funding requirement can can someone help me understand that probably needed to defer to the water attorney for the developer on that but I think if you look the ownership it's a little bit unique out there as far as there's easements as well on top of property owned by the underlying owner so it gets a little bit nuanced when you can talk about ownership and who owns what out there but Leonard Dougal with the developers online to talk about that yes happy to answer that can y'all hear me okay yeah Leonard Dougal for the Coran's district special counsel in the water matters in fact the Coran's district has negotiated and has obtained essentially co-ownership of the easements related to these dams so effectively the Coran's district is now a co-owner of the dam so both were both a co-owner of them and we've also agreed to pick up the responsibility for the operations and maintenance of the dams you may know these dams are more than 50 years old they were originally funded through some federal funds and because they were federally funded that's why these historic watershed agreements are in place these are these are historic NRCS agreements that you know we're amending to add the Coran's district as a local sponsor we need to be a local sponsor to spend our the district's money to to help with the maintenance of the dams so I guess I'm you know I'm not resisting I really am trying to understand the the idea of the differential need to have maintenance support and funding for a project at versus also being a co-owner and I'm just trying to to understand that that fine line between those two because you can be responsible for maintaining a property and not own it and and and I know I'm I'm being a little loose there because you're not yes you said easements and whatnot aren't quite ownership but I mean for the sake of this analogy can you help me you know understand being operationally responsible for something versus being well whatever the I'm gonna use for simplicity I'm gonna keep saying co-owner to keep that analogy going and I think if I can interject I think Leonard it think you touched on it if as I'm listening to the conversation but and maybe it's someone else's area but it's really does the the corporation if you will can it spend money on something that it doesn't own and I could be I'm saying that wrong but the coal organization that's managing the property as I hear it you're I think I heard you say they basically like the city the city can't spend money on something in Fort Worth you know it had we have to it has to be in the city of Denton so I think that's what I'm hearing is the question is is there a requirement for allocation of funds from this from this institution if you will is there a prohibition against spending money again on property that you don't own or stuff that's not under its ownership that's a terrible way to ask the question but you know there's definitely some fine points here but I think it's fair to say that the core inch district again the core inch district is a political subdivision of the state the core inch district does need to have you know some ownership interest in the dams which again we have negotiated per the the request of the city and the operations agreement between the city and and the core inch district so those negotiations have happened Denton County itself was involved so all the parties involved that are currently owners of those easements have signed off on that these three agreements really only relate to funding so we're already an owner now but to help with the funding of it because these dams were you know constructed originally with federal funds we have to amend these NRCS agreements to add the core inch district as a local sponsor so this really only relates to kind of the funding side of it not the ownership side of it hopefully that helped if not let me know if I can yeah again that that that move be in in a better direction I'm not all the way there and I'll wait for other counselors to comment on anything counselor Davis this is my second goes if there's somebody else who had yeah I'm not seeing anyone that's what anyone else okay counselor Davis so I'm going back over the AIS and I reviewed this some before the meeting but it looks to me that if if coal ranch the the the district can't spend money on these on these structures and on these ponds and dams the only other entities that would be allowed would be the soil and water conservation districts and if I'm not mistaken those are those are kind of legacy bodies they they don't have any money you know they're they're kind of groups of agricultural landowners in the area that make up their boards there's no there was formerly federal funding for creating some of these rural dams and ponds but there's not money necessarily always available for maintaining them the districts don't maintain a you know a cash reserve for taking care of these things which kind of goes back to what we were talking about before somebody has to take control of these things and somebody has to be on the hook for paying for them but if you're not on the list you don't get to fix them you don't get to change anything on them you don't get to because they are basically legacy federal projects you know it's just like if I took a shovel out to a Corps of Engineers project and started digging they'd say well hold on a second you're not the Corps of Engineers you don't get to touch it so I mean maybe that's not a great analogy to use the Corps of Engineers but that's how I read it is nobody can can mess with these things and spend money on them and do work on them unless they're part of the local ownership this local sponsor concept is what I'm reading about in the AIS so I mean if we I don't know what we expect to happen if the developer doesn't do what we instructed and asked them to do in our agreement which has come back to us and be added as a local sponsor to take responsibility these things I don't know what we expect the alternative would be and I don't know maybe Matt can can enlighten us there on what would happen if that were the case if if we were to say well we'd like you to come back and do this when the time is right and then here they come to do it and we say we don't quite understand we don't we don't want to do it anymore well councilmember Davis I think you described it accurately as far as what the process is and what it takes for the the coal ranch district to be involved on this the second part year question it would certainly be a closed discussion if we wanted to talk about what that looks like that if the city doesn't go forward okay any other any other questions seeing none I'm gonna move approval because just in summary they're they're doing what we ask them to do so is there a second counselor Davis I'll second most of our mayor Hudson second by councilmember Davis any other discussion counselor Davis may I just want to say really briefly I know that there are members of this body today who would not necessarily have voted to create this special taxation district a couple years ago when it happened they were not a part of the negotiations to make it happen some who are still a member of the body members of the body were president for negotiations and work sessions and voted against it I would very I would caution very strongly my colleagues against looking at this as an opportunity to put a thumb in the eye of that that vote two years ago that you disagree with I I think if you're considering a no vote on this particular item you might want to take Mac up on that offer of a closed session before we go down that road if you're considering a yes vote because the developers doing exactly what the city negotiated for then more power to you but before we go down a no vote road I'd really invite you to take take Mac up on that offer councilor Armitage uh yeah I just want to say uh for the record so I was uh on council and voted no to the coal hunter ranch deal and was very adamantly against it and I am proud of that vote however I'm going to vote yes to this because this was one of the arrangements that staff made with the developers that helped make it a better project than it could have been again I've still I would vote the same way I would vote no again today and I don't want to rub that in too much I'm just saying so that people know this is that I'm not voting yes to the coal hunter ranch development but I'm voting yes to this particular aspect of the agreement because I see it as given that this development is coming anyway this is an aspect of it that I see as good for the city okay any other discussion that's it councilman Beck thank you I just want to be clear that regardless of well I wasn't on council obviously at the time but regardless of whether I supported the decision of the council at time or not that wasn't the gist of my question you know we have contract we have maintenance contracts all the time for things that we contract people that don't own what they are maintaining that is the gist of my questioning is what was the role of you know getting you know easement I'm just going to continue the analogy it getting easement co-ownership getting co-ownership in general of this versus simply are requiring some level of maintenance or maintenance contract and I was trying to understand the distinction of that for taking something that was a larger community North Texas endeavor and saying okay well we're we're the Cole Honda Ranch cohort is is is the the one that now needs to have a chunk of this it is it is not a function of whether or not I would have supported the vote or not I'm trying to understand the distinction between a maintenance contract and ownership but that being said I'm gonna move ahead with this but I still think that remains an unanswered question okay thank you and if there's anything follow-up wise Mac if you can maybe get that to all of us that'd be good fair question it is I mean it is an area of specificity but just just so we can understand going forward it'll you know expedite things that if we have future conversations to we can kind of chew on that so thank you any other discussion okay Mayor Hutsworth is a councilman Davis I councilman McGuire I'm gonna say the same thing I say about every vote on Cole Hunter Ranch it sucks I hate Connor ranch but there's no point in fighting about it now I Councilman Burt Councilman back I may put some melted they still have the opportunity to not destroy 26% of pilots not environmentally sensitive area I'm an eye on this and then councilor Armitage thank you yes thank you passes 7-0 thank you oh that can that that's our agenda concluding items councilmember Armitage then councilmember Burt I just want to say briefly how awesome it was tonight to be able to vote on so many affordable housing applications I really love that we're seeing this influx in an affordable housing and that affordable housing developers are seeing that this is a city that supports it and that staff are doing the work to to attract affordable housing builders and to show that we mean what we say and for us to have this opportunity to show that we mean what we say and not just one at a time but so many all together because we really have as Mayor Pro Tem said earlier you know we we have acknowledged the big gap that we have and we've got a lot of housing to make up for a lot of housing need and so this is a great way to to do it by by showing that it doesn't have to be just one vote per week we can do more than one at a time anyway so thank you to everybody who is involved in that council member just want to say that today is the first day of black history buff and so I'm very proud of that as an African American person but also want to remind us that black history is also American history and getting more knowledge anyone else sending I was I was wrong groundhog days tomorrow when I started off so I want to correct that for anybody oh okay Mayor Pro Tem yeah thank you I was called out earlier by a speaker about an image that I would agree was offensive and I think the person posted it and would agree was offensive and and I I communicated to that person that I really responded to the content of the post I hadn't actually even really registered the image I should have and I said I would find an opportunity to say so so I'm doing so now thank you okay then I'll be attending the services for and I'm broken hearted about this Brent he passed away he was always fantastic in his presentations so that's Friday so I appreciate staff putting that in the Friday report so we could know so I plan to attend those Friday then want to say thank you to mr. Donald Cox for his National Freedom Day event he put on today virtually due to due to the COVID pandemic and then NCTC in Gainesville I visited there today and their health sciences building and I really would suggest if you've not been up there lately please go go see that and the craziest thing is and I want to miss city manager I want to try to see if we can get one for the fire department it's it's called a high fidelity let me see I wrote it out high fidelity medical simulator basically it's a mannequin a dummy but it talks it talks and tells you so they have like an emergency room simulator and the person tells you their eyes move the mannequin moves and it tells you how oh my heart rate is this or this or that it kind of talks back to you it's the craziest thing but it's fantastic so okay if you can make the 30-minute drive up to them and coordinate a visit and I'll talk to you about getting one for the fire okay that'd be great y'all man it's fantastic and then those that didn't watch it governor I haven't held a press conference today on preparedness for power and so I would suggest people go look at that and kind of get up to speed on what the state's doing DME has done a great job preparing and staggered staff and all those things so excited about that one fun fact though take a little time those that sold their house early when they they said they were on a dedicated grid that's good because now we've doubled the amount of circuits and so that's all reconfigured so Lord willing we won't have any outages but those are all reconfigured so kudos to DME for and that's just to make sure people stay up longer if we do have to have rolling blackouts but they've worked very hard to make sure our community is in great shape going into these winter months and issues like that and so that's good and then just want to say to the first responders as the winter weather and all that is coming in just in all emergency services that they're top of mind hope they stay safe and I thank them very much for for being on the front end of all those challenging things and please if you don't have to get out if they're sleet on the road stay inside and we'll ride it out and we'll be we'll be great so with that it is nine oh eight and I'll conclude tonight's meeting thank you very much