WEBVTT

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 I will call us to order at 5 o' 4 p.m. Let the record show that Commissioner Smith is absent today.

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 First item on the agenda is citizen comment on consent agenda items.

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 Vanessa, do we have anyone on the phone?

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 Yeah.

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 Thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 Thank you.

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 Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.

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 This is our work session for Wednesday, December 15th, 2021.

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 Vanessa, are you there?

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 No, we do not.

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 Okay.

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 Thank you.

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 All right.

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 That will move us to our second item on the agenda, which is work session reports.

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 Receive a report, hold a discussion regarding general topics in urban design.

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 Hello, Julie.

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 Hello.

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 All right.

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 You get two for the price of one tonight.

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 And camera.

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 All right.

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 Okay.

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 I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton, and I have Cameron Robertson, who's

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 a principal planner with the City of Denton.

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 And we're continuing our boot camp series and talking about urban design tonight.

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 So just to let you know, this is supposed to be fun and we're going to have a little

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 audience participation, so feel free to participate in the discussion.

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 So I wanted to just go over briefly what we want to talk about tonight.

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 First of all, we want to talk about what is urban design and why it's important.

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 Some framing devices, how to think about urban design, what the Denton Plan 2030 and the

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 Denton Development Code say about urban design, design in the private and public realms, rural

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 to urban design, and then some case studies and a wrap-up.

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 So I just want to briefly set the table and say, you know, all built environments have

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 design elements.

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 Tonight, we're mainly going to focus on more what you think of walkable environments or

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 more of that capital U urban environment.

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 So we'll touch on other contexts, but that's going to be our primary focus tonight.

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 So first of all, what is urban design?

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 It's an incredibly broad topic.

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 Cameron and I struggled mightily to really narrow this presentation down.

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 We could probably have a whole series on this alone.

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 So we may not hit all facets of it, but in thinking about tonight's presentation, what

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 we really looked at is thinking about that piece, as small as a section of sidewalk,

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 all the way to buildings and how they're oriented on a street, and then all parts in between.

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 Urban design covers all facets of disciplines.

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 So many different people go into designing spaces.

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 And then it also brings into account policymakers and process.

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 So it really covers all that.

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 It's incredibly broad.

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 So we've found one definition that we liked, that it is the design of our cities and towns.

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 It's collaborative and multidisciplinary.

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 It shapes our physical setting and where we live, and it can encompass the design of buildings,

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 the groups of buildings, and those spaces and landscapes.

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 So that really kind of encompasses all parts of that.

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 And then why is it important?

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 When we were looking at urban design in this topic, we thought, okay, what does it matter?

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 What does it care?

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 Well, first of all, in terms of your role and the Planning and Zoning Commission, you're

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 seeing a lot more detailed site plans.

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 You're seeing a lot more variety of projects, particularly things like Plan Developments

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 and SUPs.

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 So it's coming more into play into what you do for the city.

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 But in terms of broader aspects, we looked at tangible aspects to urban design and then

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 intangible.

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 So first, we want to talk about those tangible aspects.

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 So economic, kind of the basis of why development happens.

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 And we looked at a book by Jeff Speck.

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 He wrote Walkable City Rules.

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 And by his analysis, homes in Denver's walkable neighborhoods had 150 percent premium over

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 less walkable neighborhoods.

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 In Baltimore, 57 percent more jobs were created with one dollar spent on pedestrian facilities

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 over highway investment.

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 And then speaking of our own personal budgets, the typical middle class American spends 20

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 percent of their budget on transportation.

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 And when we talk about transportation, that's typically a car.

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 So car payments and insurance and tires and gas.

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 So that's a big chunk of all of our budgets.

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 When we're talking about walkable urban environments, they can impact our health.

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 Places that you can walk and that you do have that active living are often healthier.

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 And they also provide spaces for farmers market or gathering spaces or sale of local goods.

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 When walkable places are designed well, they're safe.

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 They're safe for pedestrians, both young and old, and take into account that aspect.

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 Walkable urban well-designed places are sustainable.

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 They take into account our living infrastructure, like street trees and those green spaces.

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 They can improve our soils and our air and our water quality.

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 And they can integrate those natural environments into our urban places.

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 And then they can also help with resource restoration.

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 We can improve our water runoff with good design.

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 We can enable things like renewable energy sources and different modes of transportation.

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 And then at a basic standpoint, if you're designing places where you can walk, you are

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 reducing the number of miles you have to drive in a car.

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 You can choose other modes of transportation.

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 And those are what we thought of were the tangible aspects to urban design.

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 But there's also those intangible, those things that you can't really quantify.

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 And one is just a sense of community.

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 Good, well-designed places foster social interactions.

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 They are places that you can see and touch and smell.

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 So they provide that sensory environment.

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 And then they also help orient you to where you are.

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 There's a seminal work that we all read in planning school, The Image of the City.

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 And it talks about how we organize our cities using pathways and edges and districts and

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 landmarks.

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 So, you know, it can help you place you in your space.

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 We all use framing devices for urban design.

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 Not everybody in the world is embedded in urban planning, like the planning staff or

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 planning and zoning commission.

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 And so what we come up with is framing devices to talk about urban design.

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 The granddaddy of them all really is that new urbanism.

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 It's been around for several decades.

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 It's not really anything new.

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 It's kind of traditional town planning.

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 It's the way towns and cities were built prior to maybe highways coming in.

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 It's that walkable blocks and streets, a mix of uses close together, human-scale development.

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 If you're interested in urban and new urbanism, you can Google Congress for New Urbanism and

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 they've got more information there.

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 A newer framing device is the 20-minute city.

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 That everything you should need within a day-to-day is within 20 minutes walk, bike or maybe transit.

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 But that things are really close together.

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 You shouldn't have to travel more than 20 minutes on a day-to-day basis.

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 Walk score, it might be something you're familiar with.

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 It's an online tool.

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 It's kind of cool.

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 It uses pedestrian and transit metrics to determine a score for cities and neighborhoods.

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 Just to let you know, overall Denton is a 33, so it is deemed as car dependent.

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 But the square is an 87, so it is very walkable.

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 So we run the gamut here.

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 And then one thing I like to talk about when we talk to developers, especially at the pre-application

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 stage, is the trick-or-treat test.

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 So there's a planner in Canada who talks about this and he says that kids know well-designed

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 neighborhoods because they're really great to trick-or-treat in.

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 There's houses in proximity to each other.

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 They have well-connected sidewalks.

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 The houses are connected to the street.

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 You can see the front door easily.

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 Those are really good neighborhoods to trick-or-treat in.

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 And then 8 and 80, public spaces should be built for everybody.

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 You should be able to send out your 8-year-old child or your 80-year-old grandmother to the

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 store, to walk to the store and know that they're going to be safe and can make it.

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 And so that's another framing device.

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 And one framing device we want to take a little deeper dive on is the Project for Public Spaces

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 Power of 10.

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 And the whole thesis of this is to pay attention to that human experience and that places should

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 have things to do.

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 And it can run from the regional level all the way to the specific place.

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 Think of the square.

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 So it's scalable.

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 So in order to talk about this, we're going to look at a streetscape and come up with

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 the things to do there.

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 So this is a streetscape from their website.

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 And it lays out kind of the things that the people can do when they visit that space.

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 They can people watch.

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 They can take a stroll.

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 They can meet friends.

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 They can listen to a tourist language.

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 So it's very sensory.

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 It has economic value here because people are spending money and they're walking around.

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 There's connectivity.

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 So it brings in a lot of those aspects and those important elements to urban design.

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 And here's where we get interactive.

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 Here is a space that we all know within the city of Denton and that is the square.

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 So I wanted to see if you could come up with things to do, see if we can find 10 things

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 to do within this square.

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 Feel free to yell it out if you want to.

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 Ten things.

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 Barley and board, if I need an appliance, I can go to Neal's.

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 Well across the thing there is LSA, then you have Cartwrights, I mean you got plenty of

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 food over there.

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 You got a jewelry store, I mean, pretty well.

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 You've hit a lot of them.

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 Yes.

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 You can shop, right?

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 Don't forget recycled books.

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 Coffee, whatever.

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 Yes.

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 Absolutely meet friends, right?

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 Recycle books.

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 Go shop.

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 Recycle books.

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 Have a blast.

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 You can live near the square.

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 You can live near there.

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 You can live there.

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 Absolutely.

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 People watch on the square.

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 It's great.

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 Yes.

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 People watch.

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 Absolutely.

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 Get a tattoo.

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 We've hit some.

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 So, you know, you can photograph a mural, right?

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 You can Instagram yourself on the square.

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 You can listen to music at LSA.

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 You can sit on a bench and people watch.

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 You can stroll, window shop, visit a museum.

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 You can relax on the grass.

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 I've actually seen people juggling on the square before.

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 You can meet friends.

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 You can walk your dog if you live there.

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 So, yeah, that definitely passes the test, right?

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 There's 10 things to do on the square.

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 That's a vibrant place, and we all know that.

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 The Project for Public Spaces goes further to come up with four elements that make a

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 great place.

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 One is sociability.

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 That is, you know, it's difficult to achieve, they said, but it's a place where you take

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 community pride.

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 Uses and activities, that's where we went over.

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 Are there things to do in a place?

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 Is there comfort in image?

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 Is it safe?

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 Is it clean?

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 And then access and linkages.

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 This is vital.

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 If you can't get to it or through it, you're not going to go there.

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 So, all of those things really work together to make a great place.

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 And we, as part of our discussion of this, we have a couple of examples.

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 The first one, and my children are in this presentation, by the way.

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 The first image, you may have been there, the Cherry Orchard.

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 It's within Denton, and it definitely hits all of those elements.

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 It's easy to get to.

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 It's definitely a place that Denton folks take pride in.

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 There's things to do there, and it's pretty comfortable, yes.

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 Where is the Cherry Orchard?

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 It's in a neighborhood that you're going to be the...

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 So, it has a couple different names, but it's at Idiott's Hill, Woods' Neighborhood, up

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 there.

00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:03.480
 Yes.

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 Oh, well, we'll have to...

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 I'll make sure to get everyone a map.

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 Yeah, so it's just got a bunch of chairs where you can go out and visit it.

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 People take wedding photos out there, and they just go like there's...

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 Yeah.

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 The square definitely hits all four of those elements.

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 And then another picture, it's a great streetscape.

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 It's definitely comfortable.

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 It has stoops, so it's got the sociability, and it's got the access and linkages.

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 Not a lot to do on this street, just to walk through.

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 So, it doesn't quite hit all the marks, but it definitely has a lot of good elements to

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 it.

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 And now we're going to have Cameron come in.

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 Thank you, Julie.

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 Okay, so we're going to really be focusing on this photo here right now, when we're looking

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 at the public realm versus the private realm.

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 So when you're first looking at the public realm, we have that right of way.

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 So that includes your streets and sidewalks, so as you see this photo, those pedestrians

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 and those bicyclists are accessing that street and that sidewalk.

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 You also, what's included in that right of way, you have parkways, you have bike lanes,

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 trains and alleyways as well.

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 Moving on, we have that semi-public spaces.

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 So these are kind of the spaces in between the street and the buildings themselves.

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 So it does include the sidewalk, but it also includes those spaces in between the buildings

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 themselves in terms of those little nooks and crannies that you pass by.

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 And then lastly, we have those publicly accessible spaces.

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 So our parks such as Quaker Town Park, our square, plazas and courtyards.

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 And when we're looking at the parks themselves, we kind of also have those different layers

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 of parks.

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 So we have regional, neighborhood, we have active and passive spaces where you can read

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 a book or you can play soccer.

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 And then lastly, we have our trails.

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 And then when we're looking at our private realm, if you follow the arrow for the first,

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 we have that, what we're really focusing on is that relationship to the street.

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 So we're looking to see that those buildings are built up to that sidewalk or that right

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 of way.

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 And then the next thing we're really looking at is that building size.

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 Is there increments of development?

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 Are there different building heights?

00:15:17.780 --> 00:15:19.560
 Is it one story versus two story?

00:15:19.560 --> 00:15:22.600
 Are there different facade finishes?

00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.400
 And then we're looking next at our parking locations.

00:15:25.400 --> 00:15:29.800
 When we're looking at an urban context, parking is not the main focus here.

00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:33.920
 So parking can be on street parking, but as you see in this image here, there's no parking

00:15:33.920 --> 00:15:35.380
 to be found.

00:15:35.380 --> 00:15:39.720
 So that parking is hidden away, whether it's in a parking garage, whether it's behind the

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.820
 building or elsewhere in parking lots, you know, maybe on the perimeter of the urban

00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:44.820
 area.

00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:48.680
 And then lastly, in terms of the private realm, we have those sticky edges.

00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:54.140
 So those are those facades that kind of provide activity at the ground level and they really

00:15:54.140 --> 00:15:56.320
 draw the members of the public in.

00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.520
 So there's kind of four breakdowns of that.

00:15:58.520 --> 00:16:01.000
 And the first one is no blank walls.

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.720
 So as you see in this photo, we kind of have different textures and varieties of these

00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:07.760
 buildings on their facades.

00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:13.480
 We also have vertical articulation with the columns on the ground floor.

00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.560
 We also have that limited repetition.

00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:19.900
 So yes, in the closest building that we see, we kind of have that, you know, similar cornice

00:16:19.900 --> 00:16:23.480
 line that carries all the way through, but it's broken up with those different architectural

00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.960
 features, whether it's awnings or signage or even the flower baskets hanging from the

00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.800
 ground floor portico.

00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:36.860
 And moving on, we're looking at that Denton Plan 2030.

00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:43.040
 So as Julie stated, you know, this is really our guiding piece that, you know, you all

00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:46.760
 as planning and zoning and as us as staff, you know, this is really our guiding light.

00:16:46.760 --> 00:16:51.800
 This is something that we want to work towards for the Denton and how we want the city to

00:16:51.800 --> 00:16:53.640
 look like in the future.

00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:59.360
 So we really focus on this in element four, which is our community character and urban

00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.360
 design overview.

00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.000
 And the place that we first focus on is our existing character areas.

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.500
 And these are our existing urban and mixed use environments.

00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:09.500
 And usually those are historic resources.

00:17:09.500 --> 00:17:13.880
 So that includes our historic districts, as well as our individually designated properties.

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.940
 Usually these are mostly congregated in our more urban areas.

00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:24.040
 And then the next area we look at is our Denton downtown Main Street program.

00:17:24.040 --> 00:17:29.080
 And then moving on from that is, once again, looking at urban design and our future development.

00:17:29.080 --> 00:17:32.220
 How do we want people to view our community?

00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:36.080
 Whether they're from this community, whether they're passing through, or if they're just

00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:37.700
 visiting.

00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:43.120
 And then we look at our urban design principles, kind of as connectivity, whether it's sidewalks,

00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:48.280
 streets, variety of texture on our buildings themselves, building orientation.

00:17:48.280 --> 00:17:51.460
 Are they directed towards the street or are they set back?

00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:53.920
 And just location of parking and street trees as well.

00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:58.400
 And then lastly, we're looking at our focus areas, which are kind of our like urban centers

00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:04.740
 or our corridors, such as I-35, and our gateways, as well as our travel centers.

00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:08.820
 Another thing that staff and you all as Planning and Zoning Commission use is our 2019 Denton

00:18:08.820 --> 00:18:10.160
 Development Code.

00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.700
 So that's really what we focus on when we're looking at these projects that come through

00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:16.660
 our three main areas.

00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:17.660
 So three main chapters.

00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:21.760
 And the first chapter is our subchapter three, which is our zoning districts.

00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:27.740
 And this really tells us what those minimum setbacks are, minimum lot sizes, maximum heights

00:18:27.740 --> 00:18:29.780
 that we're looking for in certain zoning districts.

00:18:29.780 --> 00:18:34.180
 And the next thing that we're looking at is our subchapter five, which is our use regulations.

00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:39.060
 And when we're talking about an urban context, we're really focusing on our mixed use neighborhoods,

00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:44.740
 that MN district, our mixed use downtown, as well as our mixed use regional areas.

00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:48.460
 And then lastly, we look at subchapter seven, which is our development standards.

00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:54.380
 So this is really focusing on building orientation, where parking is located, relationship to

00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:57.760
 the street, landscaping, and more.

00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:01.580
 So that first one we're focusing on is access, which is 7.8.

00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:05.580
 And that's looking at neighborhood street connections, sidewalk connection, pedestrian

00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:11.340
 walkways, and also how people get to and from a lot, whether it's via bicycle or transit.

00:19:11.340 --> 00:19:16.380
 The next thing we're looking at is parking, whether parking is permitted.

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:22.020
 For example, front parking is not permitted in our MD, MN, or our MR districts.

00:19:22.020 --> 00:19:26.500
 And then there's no commercial parking development in our MD.

00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:29.640
 And then what we're also looking at is our site building design.

00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:34.340
 So that's kind of layered into our single family, multi-family, non-residential.

00:19:34.340 --> 00:19:37.100
 So it's kind of broken down into the DDC for you.

00:19:37.100 --> 00:19:39.100
 And then lastly, we're looking at landscaping.

00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:41.300
 How do we want our streetscape to look?

00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:44.380
 Do we have buffers in between different types of uses?

00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:46.460
 Do we have street trees?

00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:51.560
 So basically, what do we want our community to look like from the roadway?

00:19:51.560 --> 00:19:56.220
 So before we move on, because we're kind of changing topics, does anyone have questions

00:19:56.220 --> 00:20:01.060
 for me and Julie?

00:20:01.060 --> 00:20:02.060
 Commissioner Pruitt?

00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:03.060
 Sorry.

00:20:03.060 --> 00:20:07.420
 Stop me if you're going to cover this later at all.

00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:15.500
 But one of the things you mentioned was how we try to encourage development in a certain

00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:19.660
 method in that last slide, building design and that sort of thing.

00:20:19.660 --> 00:20:26.980
 Do I guess with the exception of our historic areas and our downtown district overlays,

00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:37.980
 are there any DDC requirements or goals that try to focus this type of development in specific

00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:38.980
 regions?

00:20:38.980 --> 00:20:48.700
 Or are they all based on the type of use and the building and that sort of thing?

00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:54.340
 I would say that in our development code, we have additional standards for our mixed

00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:55.740
 use districts.

00:20:55.740 --> 00:21:01.780
 So really anywhere where you've got the MD, the MN, and the MR, they should have elevated

00:21:01.780 --> 00:21:06.820
 more fine-grain, walkable type design is really the intent.

00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:13.900
 And then I would also say that with, and Tina may want to jump in, with our PDs, we're often

00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:22.080
 applying in particular that sub-chapter in the Denton Plan 2030 regarding urban design,

00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:28.340
 looking at those elements on that table 4.1 and seeing if that project checks some of

00:21:28.340 --> 00:21:29.460
 those boxes.

00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:35.980
 So maybe not a specific locale, but specific zoning districts do have that intent.

00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:36.980
 Okay.

00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:42.100
 So maybe I'm stepping out on a limb here, but it sounds like the development code is

00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:47.260
 kind of general based on the zoning category, but where some of these things might be specifically

00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:50.260
 applied would be where some of the small area plans come in.

00:21:50.260 --> 00:21:53.100
 Is that one option?

00:21:53.100 --> 00:21:59.460
 Well, the area plans can benefit, especially if we are looking to have areas develop in

00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:02.260
 a much more urban format.

00:22:02.260 --> 00:22:09.620
 Keep in mind when we adopted the 2019 code and we assigned the MN, MD, and MR zoning

00:22:09.620 --> 00:22:15.460
 districts throughout the city, we conscientiously made a decision that in these areas we want

00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:19.500
 them to develop in accordance with these standards here, which are much more urban form, urban

00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:24.940
 design standards compared to some of our other zoning districts that we have in the city.

00:22:24.940 --> 00:22:28.820
 So I would say through that action, that's where we made a conscientious decision as

00:22:28.820 --> 00:22:31.420
 to how we want that area to evolve.

00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:36.380
 Presumably, and let me know if I'm speaking incorrectly, Julie, and especially maybe Ron

00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:42.060
 over there, because one of the things, and we'll have some more of this conversation

00:22:42.060 --> 00:22:44.940
 when we talk about the comprehensive plan and the comprehensive plan update that we're

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:50.380
 working on, but in the comp plan, we have the preferred growth scenarios map, and that

00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:55.540
 map identified areas where we are interested in having greater, denser development.

00:22:55.540 --> 00:22:59.980
 And so these zoning districts, when they were established, were likely established in concert

00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:06.540
 with the preferred growth scenarios map, as well as the future land use map in the designations

00:23:06.540 --> 00:23:07.900
 that were provided there.

00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:10.140
 So hopefully that helps address your question.

00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:11.140
 That does.

00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:12.140
 Thank you.

00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:13.140
 Okay.

00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:14.140
 Anybody else?

00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:15.140
 Okay.

00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:16.140
 Okay.

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:17.140
 Thanks.

00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:20.740
 So now we're going to move on to types of development.

00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:26.500
 So kind of giving you that foundational discussion of rural development all the way to urban

00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:29.980
 development, as well as some case studies.

00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:31.540
 So here you have rural development.

00:23:31.540 --> 00:23:33.900
 So this is just north of Salina.

00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:39.920
 As you can see from the aerial, it's a lot of single use, low density, likely auto oriented.

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:43.560
 You see unpaved and paved single lane roadways.

00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:48.940
 You see no sidewalks, meaning it is not walkable, or if it is, it'll take you a very long time

00:23:48.940 --> 00:23:54.080
 to get from point A to point B. And in these kind of areas, you see a lot of bar ditches

00:23:54.080 --> 00:23:55.080
 as well.

00:23:55.080 --> 00:24:00.500
 And the properties themselves, they're much, much wider lots, and the property or the homes

00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:02.420
 themselves are set back.

00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:09.020
 And they're usually preserving a lot of existing vegetation, meadows and wood lots.

00:24:09.020 --> 00:24:11.980
 The next example is kind of a suburban development.

00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.220
 And this example is from Plano.

00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:17.820
 And this is where we're starting to see a lot in North Texas is kind of that more suburban

00:24:17.820 --> 00:24:21.460
 development with that commercial core and then those neighborhoods on the outskirts

00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:23.540
 or on that outer fringe.

00:24:23.540 --> 00:24:29.660
 And in suburban development, you see a lot of single use, low density buildings with

00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:34.020
 some leisurely walkability as well as it's primarily auto oriented.

00:24:34.020 --> 00:24:38.580
 So as you can see from this aerial, you kind of have those wide arterial roadways that

00:24:38.580 --> 00:24:43.060
 are kind of dissecting the neighborhood into four different pieces.

00:24:43.060 --> 00:24:48.660
 In the neighborhood themselves, you have those narrower sidewalks, usually about five foot

00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:52.740
 wide versus 10 or more in more urban areas.

00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:57.500
 You also see a lot more cul de sacs and longer blocks.

00:24:57.500 --> 00:25:00.340
 You also will see more of that commercial district.

00:25:00.340 --> 00:25:05.260
 You'll see those drive through lanes, once again, auto oriented, and then you have private

00:25:05.260 --> 00:25:06.260
 open space.

00:25:06.260 --> 00:25:11.440
 So people's rear yards or their front yards, whether they're gated or not.

00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:16.700
 And then you have that kind of buffer between that commercial and that residential.

00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:20.880
 And then we kind of move into that transition phase, which is between suburban and urban.

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.620
 And this example is from the village in Dallas.

00:25:23.620 --> 00:25:25.620
 And this allows for more than one use.

00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:28.840
 So you kind of have different levels of multifamily.

00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:32.340
 You can also have single family homes, but we're starting to see kind of more of this

00:25:32.340 --> 00:25:34.620
 development appear.

00:25:34.620 --> 00:25:36.420
 The density increases.

00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:38.540
 There is a walkability on site.

00:25:38.540 --> 00:25:43.380
 Usually when you get there, you have to use an auto or automobile to get there.

00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:46.820
 But once you're on site, you're able to walk around, use different modes of transit, whether

00:25:46.820 --> 00:25:50.420
 it's biking or maybe there's some bus stops along the way.

00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:54.540
 And then usually these areas are also not really connected to a larger area because

00:25:54.540 --> 00:25:58.820
 once again, you have those wider arterial roadways on the perimeters, kind of cutting

00:25:58.820 --> 00:26:01.980
 them off from those neighboring communities.

00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.540
 And then lastly, we have our urban development.

00:26:04.540 --> 00:26:08.340
 And this aerial is from the Oaklawn neighborhood in Dallas.

00:26:08.340 --> 00:26:13.320
 And this is where you see that mixed use, high density, kind of purposeful walkability.

00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:16.720
 And then it's usually transit oriented.

00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:21.780
 On the aerial, you see a little bit narrower roadways, and this usually requires vehicles

00:26:21.780 --> 00:26:26.060
 to travel at a lower speed because there's usually pedestrians along the side.

00:26:26.060 --> 00:26:27.560
 You have those wider sidewalks.

00:26:27.560 --> 00:26:31.360
 Once again, not the five foot wide, but usually 10 foot or more.

00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:33.160
 You have that on street parking.

00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:34.520
 It's not really the main focus.

00:26:34.520 --> 00:26:38.740
 Once again, you could have parallel or angled, but you usually have it in a parking garage

00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:40.540
 or on the outskirts.

00:26:40.540 --> 00:26:42.260
 You do see a street grid.

00:26:42.260 --> 00:26:45.820
 As you can see in this upper left-hand corner towards the top, you kind of see that existing

00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:49.940
 street grid with those smaller blocks that make it more walkable.

00:26:49.940 --> 00:26:51.460
 You also have those integrated neighborhoods.

00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:53.100
 So there is a lot of mixed uses.

00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:57.940
 There's retail, restaurants, and you also have the open space.

00:26:57.940 --> 00:27:01.900
 A lot of urban contexts do have some type of open space that people are able to walk

00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:02.900
 to.

00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.740
 And in this context, it's the Turtle Creek area.

00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:10.580
 So now we're going to move on to our case studies.

00:27:10.580 --> 00:27:15.140
 But before I do that, we're kind of going to look at the growth over time.

00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:19.940
 So looking at this aerial of Denton in 1942, you can really see that urban street grid

00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:21.240
 that exists.

00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:25.640
 So you see square blocks, rectangular blocks, but they look pretty walkable.

00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:29.660
 And they're all kind of straight north, south, east, west.

00:27:29.660 --> 00:27:35.620
 But then as we're moving into 1964, we start to see the city move to the north and start

00:27:35.620 --> 00:27:41.380
 to stretch out to the south, just south of I-35, and a little bit to the west.

00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:44.320
 And we start to see that street grid kind of disappear.

00:27:44.320 --> 00:27:48.460
 Not necessarily, we're seeing blocks get a little bit longer, things moving at different

00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:54.200
 angles, and not necessarily that north, south, east, west block grid anymore.

00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:56.500
 And then we're looking at 1984.

00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:58.700
 The city has continued to extend north.

00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:00.100
 It's continued to send south.

00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:06.500
 We have I-35 west now in place, and we start to see more street infrastructure coming in.

00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:09.380
 And once again, we've kind of lost sight of that urban context.

00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:12.380
 We don't really see where the urban environment is anymore.

00:28:12.380 --> 00:28:16.960
 And we see a lot more single-family residential taking place.

00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:21.260
 And then we have 2021, then it has boomed.

00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:23.380
 We have moved west, we've moved east.

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:28.620
 We have loop 288, we've moved to the south, south of I-35 east.

00:28:28.620 --> 00:28:30.340
 We've started expanding west.

00:28:30.340 --> 00:28:34.660
 So once again, we're not seeing that urban context anymore.

00:28:34.660 --> 00:28:39.380
 We're seeing cul-de-sacs come in, we're seeing larger blocks, we're seeing a lot of auto-oriented

00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:42.800
 development come in.

00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:46.460
 So the first case study that we're looking at is...

00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:49.660
 Everyone seems to know it as Idiot's Hill, but it does have multiple names.

00:28:49.660 --> 00:28:53.420
 It's also known as Crestwood Heights and Woods neighborhood.

00:28:53.420 --> 00:28:58.860
 But in this aerial from 1964, and kind of just this Google Street View snapshot that

00:28:58.860 --> 00:29:02.780
 we have here, you can see that it's a lot of single-family residential.

00:29:02.780 --> 00:29:06.620
 There are no alleyways in the neighborhood itself.

00:29:06.620 --> 00:29:10.660
 And a lot of the buildings or the residences have front or side entry garages, meaning

00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:16.140
 that it's very forgiving and auto-oriented.

00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:18.340
 It's really based and built around that.

00:29:18.340 --> 00:29:22.140
 But there is a neighborhood park and there is an elementary school kind of centered in

00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:23.620
 that neighborhood.

00:29:23.620 --> 00:29:28.300
 But when you're looking at this screenshot, you see that there's one sidewalk on one side

00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:29.860
 and there's no sidewalk on the other.

00:29:29.860 --> 00:29:33.260
 And when you kind of drive around the neighborhood, you see that there's maybe not as many sidewalks

00:29:33.260 --> 00:29:34.620
 that are prevalent.

00:29:34.620 --> 00:29:38.860
 So the walkability is a little bit more difficult, but you do have those central areas to go

00:29:38.860 --> 00:29:45.340
 meet and have those activities kind of, as Julie has stated, in her different framing

00:29:45.340 --> 00:29:46.340
 devices.

00:29:46.340 --> 00:29:47.940
 And then lastly, we have those larger lots.

00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.340
 We have those setbacks once again.

00:29:49.340 --> 00:29:53.060
 We have those front yards and we have those private open spaces in the rear.

00:29:53.060 --> 00:29:57.300
 And now Julie is gonna come in and talk about her case study.

00:29:57.300 --> 00:30:03.100
 - All right, the next suburban neighborhood we wanna talk about is something we're kind

00:30:03.100 --> 00:30:08.540
 of seeing now, a new trend in suburban development.

00:30:08.540 --> 00:30:14.900
 It's not one in the city of Denton, it's just to the southwest, it's the Harvest neighborhood.

00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:19.180
 It is still single-family residential, so it's still very much of that suburban form,

00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:23.100
 but it does bring in that mix of lot sizes and densities.

00:30:23.100 --> 00:30:26.940
 So if you can see the site plan, I've kind of covered it up with pictures, but if you

00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:30.420
 see the site plan, all those different colors represent different lot sizes.

00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:38.460
 So it adds to the variety within that neighborhood to provide those different product types.

00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:45.700
 It does have a neighborhood school, much like the previous case study, and it does now bring

00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:49.180
 in that legible neighborhood, that legible street grid.

00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:54.140
 So fewer cul-de-sacs, that's kind of the new trend coming into those suburban spaces

00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:58.940
 where you've got less, fewer curvilinear and cul-de-sac streets and more of that legible

00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:03.960
 street grid to allow, to disperse traffic to allow more walkable environments within

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:05.700
 the development.

00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:12.220
 It does allow for a variety of open spaces, pocket parks, linear parks, and community

00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:13.220
 parks.

00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:16.140
 And it includes a combination of alleys and front entry garages.

00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:22.900
 So the picture on the top, that's alley-loaded, so the houses are pulled to the front.

00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:28.740
 And when we think about one of the framing devices, the trick-or-treat test, this one

00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:34.860
 definitely passes it, because it's got those houses within proximity to each other.

00:31:34.860 --> 00:31:40.500
 There's definitely a connected sidewalk, and those front doors are easily seen by the street.

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:49.780
 We want to go into the next case study, and that is a transition, much like the village

00:31:49.780 --> 00:31:52.220
 that Cameron discussed.

00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:57.660
 This is a project that has been under construction within the city of Denton, and it was the

00:31:57.660 --> 00:31:59.900
 epic development.

00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:02.160
 You may be familiar with this corner.

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.780
 It's the corner of Avenue C and Eagle, and this might look familiar to you.

00:32:06.780 --> 00:32:09.900
 This is what it looked like in 2018.

00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:15.580
 It was an auto-oriented commercial development, even though it was adjacent to one of the

00:32:15.580 --> 00:32:18.020
 universities in town.

00:32:18.020 --> 00:32:20.100
 And how do I know it's auto-oriented?

00:32:20.100 --> 00:32:25.900
 You want to give me some design elements in the picture that signals to you that it's

00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:33.700
 more auto- and car-friendly?

00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:36.220
 Front doors are like half a mile from the street.

00:32:36.220 --> 00:32:37.220
 Setbacks.

00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:38.220
 Big setbacks.

00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:39.220
 Yes, sir.

00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:40.220
 Yeah.

00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:41.220
 Big setback.

00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:42.220
 Mr. Anderson, your microphone.

00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:43.220
 Oh, there you go.

00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:52.220
 I said, "That's not a big setback.

00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:55.880
 The Chicken Express is right there on Eagle Drive."

00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:01.020
 The building's behind the parking area, so the parking is in front of the building's

00:33:01.020 --> 00:33:02.020
 setback.

00:33:02.020 --> 00:33:03.020
 You park right there in front of the other building to go in.

00:33:03.020 --> 00:33:08.900
 Yes, I mean, it does have different setbacks for the different streets, but one thing,

00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:09.900
 it's a drive-through.

00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:10.900
 So it's that use.

00:33:10.900 --> 00:33:14.940
 The Chicken Express is, but not the other building is behind it.

00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:15.940
 I mean, I know this area.

00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:16.940
 I grew up in Denton.

00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:19.780
 I know this area.

00:33:19.780 --> 00:33:23.100
 Those are parking spots for where you park and walk into the building.

00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:24.100
 Absolutely.

00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:26.300
 Yes, sir.

00:33:26.300 --> 00:33:35.340
 Yeah, but the intent is that when you're kind of at more suburban or auto-oriented development,

00:33:35.340 --> 00:33:39.620
 the parking's usually pulled toward the street with the building setback.

00:33:39.620 --> 00:33:45.080
 An urban design environment, and let me show you the next slide, kind of flips the script

00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:46.080
 on that.

00:33:46.080 --> 00:33:51.620
 Well, first of all, let me go over some of those design elements related to kind of that

00:33:51.620 --> 00:33:53.980
 auto-oriented development.

00:33:53.980 --> 00:34:00.220
 That area doesn't have any sidewalks, so there's no place to really walk to and from.

00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:03.060
 There is a wide street with multiple vehicular lanes.

00:34:03.060 --> 00:34:08.140
 It was a drive-through restaurant, so that sort of speaks to you're going to visit that

00:34:08.140 --> 00:34:10.480
 site in a car.

00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:12.140
 It's not accessible for all users.

00:34:12.140 --> 00:34:15.180
 There's not any barrier for free ramps.

00:34:15.180 --> 00:34:19.820
 Everything in the front, that's one thing we talked about, and the multiple driveways,

00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:25.780
 so it allows for easy cars, but not easy pedestrians.

00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:36.300
 And then that single story with the setback off of Avenue C. And so that site has actually

00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:43.900
 been redeveloped to a mixed-use development that includes both multifamily and commercial.

00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:50.180
 So the design has changed, and it's changed by it's pulled that building up to the street.

00:34:50.180 --> 00:34:54.300
 The parking is actually in a parking garage, so it's kind of behind it and in a structured

00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:56.020
 parking.

00:34:56.020 --> 00:35:03.420
 The apartments are above, and they have balconies, so it allows people to see the street.

00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:07.700
 The bottom floor has commercial development with those sticky edges that Cameron talked

00:35:07.700 --> 00:35:09.380
 about where there's windows into it.

00:35:09.380 --> 00:35:10.380
 Yes, sir?

00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.340
 We're not talking the same apples and apples here.

00:35:12.340 --> 00:35:14.540
 You're talking a minute ago where you're talking businesses.

00:35:14.540 --> 00:35:16.100
 This is residential stuff.

00:35:16.100 --> 00:35:17.100
 Yes.

00:35:17.100 --> 00:35:18.100
 So there's a difference.

00:35:18.100 --> 00:35:19.100
 Absolutely.

00:35:19.100 --> 00:35:20.100
 Absolutely.

00:35:20.100 --> 00:35:21.100
 Yes.

00:35:21.100 --> 00:35:22.100
 That one was single-use commercial.

00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:23.100
 I mean, this is more suburban, small-town.

00:35:23.100 --> 00:35:24.100
 Absolutely.

00:35:24.100 --> 00:35:26.940
 What you're showing now is more urban, big-city stuff.

00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:27.940
 Absolutely.

00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:28.940
 Yes.

00:35:28.940 --> 00:35:33.460
 And this site has really, and that's exactly it, that that site has really kind of changed

00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:36.580
 and transitioned.

00:35:36.580 --> 00:35:43.660
 So yes, now it has gone from that single-use commercial to that mix of uses with that commercial

00:35:43.660 --> 00:35:48.100
 piece on the bottom floor with the residential on top.

00:35:48.100 --> 00:35:55.380
 It has changed in terms of, you know, we talked about why design is important, and part of

00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:57.540
 it is that economic.

00:35:57.540 --> 00:36:03.300
 The property's been replatted, so I don't have DCAD data for prior to replatting, but

00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:09.500
 the 2021 valuation values that land at $1.5 million, and the improvements at $32 million

00:36:09.500 --> 00:36:10.500
 on the property.

00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:14.420
 So there's been quite an investment, a private investment on this site.

00:36:14.420 --> 00:36:18.860
 Now we'll go to Cameron again.

00:36:18.860 --> 00:36:23.420
 So the first urban case study that we're going to look at is the square.

00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:24.420
 Everyone knows the square.

00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:29.660
 That's kind of when you first think of what's urban in Denton, you think of the square.

00:36:29.660 --> 00:36:34.900
 So looking at the square itself, we kind of have those, we have nine pinpoints that we

00:36:34.900 --> 00:36:36.140
 really focus on.

00:36:36.140 --> 00:36:39.340
 The first one is, is it intended to be walkable?

00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:41.980
 So in the square, we have those wide sidewalks.

00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:47.280
 They're easily accessible, and we have that dense building development where people can

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.320
 walk from point A to point B pretty quickly.

00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.400
 We also have the buildings oriented along the sidewalks.

00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.460
 So they're facing the street fronts.

00:36:56.460 --> 00:37:00.860
 The entrances are oriented towards the street so that people who are traveling by car or

00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:06.740
 walking along the street can really have easy access and interact with those ground floors.

00:37:06.740 --> 00:37:10.940
 And then we have the central open space around the courthouse where Julia's talked about

00:37:10.940 --> 00:37:16.500
 that power of 10, people can listen to music, they can have a picnic, they can interact

00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:18.540
 and meet with friends.

00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:22.140
 The next is kind of having that mix of uses, and the square really has that.

00:37:22.140 --> 00:37:27.140
 They have a mix of retail, restaurants, and there's residential as well.

00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:29.540
 And then we have the on street parking.

00:37:29.540 --> 00:37:32.960
 When I'm looking at these photos, the parking is not really the main focus.

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:39.460
 There is parking available both on street at a parallel or at an angle parking, but

00:37:39.460 --> 00:37:41.740
 people still can use other modes of transit.

00:37:41.740 --> 00:37:46.540
 They can bike there, they can park their bike there, they can take transit, whether it's

00:37:46.540 --> 00:37:49.540
 the bus, they have other options.

00:37:49.540 --> 00:37:52.740
 And then you're looking at that pedestrian scale.

00:37:52.740 --> 00:37:54.960
 Lighting and also the building massing itself.

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:59.060
 So the lighting allows people to feel comfortable and safe at all times of day, whether it's

00:37:59.060 --> 00:38:03.740
 early in the morning or late at night, they'll have the signage lighting as well as the lighting

00:38:03.740 --> 00:38:05.580
 from the street.

00:38:05.580 --> 00:38:08.940
 And the square itself is really well defined and branded.

00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:14.580
 So you'll see that on our trash cans and also just the block sizes themselves, that 300 foot

00:38:14.580 --> 00:38:18.380
 by 120 feet, the blocks make them very walkable.

00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:23.780
 And when you enter the square, you know that this is kind of the center.

00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:25.860
 And back to Julie.

00:38:25.860 --> 00:38:30.840
 All right, we have our last urban case study.

00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.060
 And this is one that's been pretty interesting within the city of Denton.

00:38:35.060 --> 00:38:40.420
 This is one of those areas that has kind of transitioned in the last few years.

00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:43.140
 So it was the Hickory Grand Street.

00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:48.700
 If you recall, in 2010, the city adopted the downtown implementation plan, which was really

00:38:48.700 --> 00:38:52.240
 a kind of a small area plan for the downtown area.

00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:56.740
 As part of it, it included design interventions for the streets, depending on the context

00:38:56.740 --> 00:38:57.940
 of the street.

00:38:57.940 --> 00:39:01.740
 And one of the primary streets they talked about was Hickory Street.

00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:08.100
 And the plan envisioned that because Hickory Street connects DCTA with the courthouse,

00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:11.740
 that that was kind of the grand street, that was going to be the main thoroughfare to get

00:39:11.740 --> 00:39:13.900
 into downtown from DCTA.

00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:18.380
 And so there should be special consideration given to that street and that they wanted

00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:26.700
 to provide additional streetscape and improvements to that street.

00:39:26.700 --> 00:39:34.420
 So as a result of that, in August of 2012, council approved an engineering services contract

00:39:34.420 --> 00:39:37.340
 to design the Hickory Grand Street project.

00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:41.860
 It included pedestrian improvements and then streetscape improvements.

00:39:41.860 --> 00:39:47.820
 And the project budget was about $3.2 million.

00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:54.640
 So to give you kind of a view of about what Hickory Street looked like in 2007, so it

00:39:54.640 --> 00:40:00.700
 was a little earlier than the DTIP, but it had the zoning of downtown commercial general

00:40:00.700 --> 00:40:01.700
 districts.

00:40:01.700 --> 00:40:04.740
 So the zoning was consistent with the rest of downtown.

00:40:04.740 --> 00:40:11.460
 Hickory had within the right of way two-way traffic with three vehicular lanes and on

00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:13.420
 street parking.

00:40:13.420 --> 00:40:15.020
 It had limited tree canopy.

00:40:15.020 --> 00:40:22.020
 It did have some trees in the area, but there wasn't quite a line of street trees down the

00:40:22.020 --> 00:40:24.140
 street.

00:40:24.140 --> 00:40:27.860
 There were sidewalks, but there was limited accessibility.

00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:30.740
 You can see on the side here there weren't any very free ramps.

00:40:30.740 --> 00:40:33.780
 There were some disconnects in that sidewalk.

00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:37.300
 And then the lighting was really to illuminate the street.

00:40:37.300 --> 00:40:43.460
 It was intended to make sure that cars could see, but that pedestrians wasn't factoring

00:40:43.460 --> 00:40:46.100
 in that sidewalk.

00:40:46.100 --> 00:40:50.680
 So this is what it looks like in 2019 and it's similar to today.

00:40:50.680 --> 00:40:58.680
 It includes those interventions that they called for within the DTIP, skinning up the

00:40:58.680 --> 00:41:07.700
 travel lanes to that two lanes, still maintaining each way or two-way streets, but providing

00:41:07.700 --> 00:41:13.740
 the angled on-street parking, adding those street trees in the landscape islands, improving

00:41:13.740 --> 00:41:17.660
 the sidewalk and also the lighting.

00:41:17.660 --> 00:41:23.060
 And then here's what it looks like from a bird's eye view, kind of showing those different

00:41:23.060 --> 00:41:29.180
 elements, that angled parking, the travel lanes on the street, that increased tree canopy

00:41:29.180 --> 00:41:33.820
 with those landscape islands, those wider connected sidewalks in the pedestrian scale

00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:35.980
 lighting.

00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:39.300
 So what does that mean and what are the results associated with that?

00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:46.060
 So we talked about why design is important, but what are the results?

00:41:46.060 --> 00:41:51.860
 So we did a little study on the street to see what happened.

00:41:51.860 --> 00:41:54.900
 So the city spent $2 million, so what happened on the street?

00:41:54.900 --> 00:42:02.620
 So by our analysis, the assessed value of the property on Hickory Street from 2012 to

00:42:02.620 --> 00:42:06.400
 2021 increased by 123%.

00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:10.940
 Now that does net out those lots that were replatted because I couldn't get the data

00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:13.980
 to go apples to apples, so we just removed those.

00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:18.940
 And it also takes out anything owned by a city facility or a public entity, the fire

00:42:18.940 --> 00:42:21.140
 station is on the street.

00:42:21.140 --> 00:42:25.100
 So there was a large increase in that property value.

00:42:25.100 --> 00:42:30.460
 There has also been private investment within the street, commercial permits totaling about

00:42:30.460 --> 00:42:33.980
 $3 million, so there's been that private investment.

00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:39.140
 And then also, just today I had a pre-application conference with an applicant who was looking

00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:44.960
 at developing one of the vacant lots on the street with a bar and restaurant.

00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:49.000
 So that development and that reinvestment in the street continues to today.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:58.100
 So it really is paying off those design interventions on Hickory Street.

00:42:58.100 --> 00:43:02.060
 So as we start to wrap up our presentation, we kind of want to leave you with this quote.

00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:04.340
 And William White is an American sociologist.

00:43:04.340 --> 00:43:10.240
 He did a lot of studies of the public and private realm, publicly owned private spaces.

00:43:10.240 --> 00:43:15.180
 And his famous quote is, "It is difficult to design a space that will not attract people.

00:43:15.180 --> 00:43:18.660
 What is remarkable is how often this has been accomplished."

00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:25.180
 So moving on to kind of everything that you've heard me and Julie present about today, it's

00:43:25.180 --> 00:43:31.800
 supposed to be a fun pop quiz about good or bad urban design.

00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:38.420
 So looking at these photos here, what numbers have bad urban design and why?

00:43:38.420 --> 00:43:40.980
 And what numbers have good urban design and why?

00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:42.980
 I can give you a first example.

00:43:42.980 --> 00:43:46.020
 So we have number three.

00:43:46.020 --> 00:43:47.500
 This is from Albany, New York.

00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:48.760
 This is kind of their capital.

00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.660
 This is their plaza area.

00:43:50.660 --> 00:43:54.780
 This is a kind of a relationship between that private and public realm.

00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:59.820
 But when you're looking at it, it's great that you have the two spaces, but you have

00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:04.020
 waterways in the center with granite tiling.

00:44:04.020 --> 00:44:06.900
 So is that really walkable all times of year?

00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:07.900
 No.

00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:11.660
 When you have wind blowing, you have snow, people are going to be slipping and sliding,

00:44:11.660 --> 00:44:13.340
 potentially falling into water.

00:44:13.340 --> 00:44:17.740
 So that's kind of a first example to get us kicked off.

00:44:17.740 --> 00:44:21.980
 Julie, you can come up too.

00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:26.360
 Does somebody want to chime in?

00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:29.860
 Number one looks like a great urban design, right?

00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:30.980
 It's incredibly inviting.

00:44:30.980 --> 00:44:32.300
 The sidewalk is right there.

00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:35.780
 The fronts of the buildings are right there.

00:44:35.780 --> 00:44:37.100
 There's a bench to sit down.

00:44:37.100 --> 00:44:40.300
 I mean, that's to me a nice urban plan.

00:44:40.300 --> 00:44:41.300
 Of course.

00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:42.300
 Yeah.

00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:43.300
 Lots of texture in that one.

00:44:43.300 --> 00:44:44.300
 Absolutely.

00:44:44.300 --> 00:44:45.300
 Yeah.

00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:46.300
 Looks great.

00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:47.300
 Okay.

00:44:47.300 --> 00:44:48.300
 Anybody else or shall I keep going?

00:44:48.300 --> 00:45:00.860
 I think one and five are, you know, two and three look like old Soviet Union type, you

00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:01.860
 know.

00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:07.420
 It's what you'd see in Eastern Europe or, I mean, not very aesthetic, but one and five

00:45:07.420 --> 00:45:08.980
 is wonderful.

00:45:08.980 --> 00:45:16.780
 One quick question, the difference between the downtown district and because Denton in

00:45:16.780 --> 00:45:24.280
 the last 30 years has become a multi-destination city.

00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.660
 So back in the day you had University Drive.

00:45:27.660 --> 00:45:28.660
 That was the hub.

00:45:28.660 --> 00:45:29.660
 That was the strip.

00:45:29.660 --> 00:45:34.740
 That's where everybody, because there's three guys here that drove that thing, plenty in

00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:35.740
 high school.

00:45:35.740 --> 00:45:42.520
 We all did, the three of us, and, I mean, everything, all the businesses, it was, but

00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:47.300
 now we're a multi-destination city.

00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:50.140
 Downtown district has no parking minimum, correct?

00:45:50.140 --> 00:45:51.140
 Correct.

00:45:51.140 --> 00:45:57.480
 So why are we holding these other areas to parking minimums?

00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:05.460
 Why aren't we just, what, waiving parking minimums to, I mean, does that make sense?

00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:06.460
 Yes.

00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:07.460
 I completely understand.

00:46:07.460 --> 00:46:08.460
 So you're right.

00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:09.460
 Part of it is the context of the development.

00:46:09.460 --> 00:46:13.780
 I think as Julie and Cameron have illustrated this evening is that we have, much of the

00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:18.540
 city was very auto-oriented development, where you think about the invention of the automobile,

00:46:18.540 --> 00:46:21.420
 then that shifted our growth patterns in many of our cities.

00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:25.540
 And so in a very suburban city, you know, we tell people that, you know, if you want

00:46:25.540 --> 00:46:30.540
 to build a retail building, then here's where you'll place it on the property.

00:46:30.540 --> 00:46:35.380
 And by the way, you also need to have X number of parking spaces being provided on the site.

00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:40.360
 We have minimum parking ratios established to ensure that there was ample places for

00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.060
 people to be able to park their vehicles.

00:46:43.060 --> 00:46:46.540
 Some of that is now also driven by financial industry as well.

00:46:46.540 --> 00:46:50.420
 Banks want to make sure that the properties can be successful in the businesses that occupy

00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:51.420
 them.

00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:54.580
 So hence why they're also interested in the parking requirement associated with it.

00:46:54.580 --> 00:47:02.180
 There is a strong interest in today's way of thinking with respect to, from a planning

00:47:02.180 --> 00:47:08.180
 mindset that we have definitely over-parked our sites for many decades.

00:47:08.180 --> 00:47:12.900
 And that there -- and you see that when you drive by retail shopping centers or restaurant

00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:17.980
 developments that -- where the majority of the parking is vacant.

00:47:17.980 --> 00:47:22.780
 On retail, we plan for the time of year leading up to Christmas, when you really think about

00:47:22.780 --> 00:47:23.780
 it.

00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:25.740
 Because that's when our parking lots are the most full.

00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:29.460
 So the rest of the time is we've just been very auto-oriented, so we wanted to make sure

00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:31.100
 we had plenty of spaces to park our vehicles.

00:47:31.100 --> 00:47:38.380
 But like I said, there's now a way of thinking of allowing less parking minimums, reducing

00:47:38.380 --> 00:47:45.300
 the amount of impervious surface, and allowing the market also to be able to dictate roughly

00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:47.100
 how much parking is needed.

00:47:47.100 --> 00:47:53.820
 In more urban areas that are more walkable, the thinking is a park once concept.

00:47:53.820 --> 00:48:00.800
 In our very suburban developed cities, it's difficult to have the park once concept.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:06.160
 If you think of a typical retail shopping center, maybe you have like a Target or Walmart

00:48:06.160 --> 00:48:10.260
 is the anchor, but then you have the spans from the anchor of all the other individual

00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:11.300
 spaces.

00:48:11.300 --> 00:48:14.900
 When you go to that shopping center, do you -- and you know you need to go to multiple

00:48:14.900 --> 00:48:19.420
 of those stores, do you park in the middle and walk to all the others, or do you find

00:48:19.420 --> 00:48:21.940
 yourself moving your car along the way?

00:48:21.940 --> 00:48:27.540
 And so that's just some of that evolution of the parking, but also -- but we're now

00:48:27.540 --> 00:48:32.020
 shifting towards maybe we don't need as much parking anymore, and we can maximize development

00:48:32.020 --> 00:48:38.780
 opportunities and maybe provide more building space and accommodate other means of transportation.

00:48:38.780 --> 00:48:44.500
 You know, I just think -- I don't want to sacrifice economic output, economic activity

00:48:44.500 --> 00:48:45.620
 for a parking space.

00:48:45.620 --> 00:48:50.940
 I can count on two hands how many businesses in this town weren't started because of parking

00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:51.940
 minimums.

00:48:51.940 --> 00:48:58.120
 I mean, because you look at Wind River, well, they have a roundabout, they have a walkability,

00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:00.980
 but they have parking minimums.

00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:06.220
 You know, so I mean, you know, I'm just talking about other -- as you can tell, I don't like

00:49:06.220 --> 00:49:07.220
 parking minimums.

00:49:07.220 --> 00:49:08.220
 So --

00:49:08.220 --> 00:49:09.220
 Okay, I'm going to --

00:49:09.220 --> 00:49:10.220
 That's out of here in the narrative.

00:49:10.220 --> 00:49:11.220
 We shall move on.

00:49:11.220 --> 00:49:12.220
 Yeah.

00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:16.220
 I don't want to get this into the parking discussion, but I want to get back to Julian

00:49:16.220 --> 00:49:17.220
 and Cameron's presentation.

00:49:17.220 --> 00:49:21.820
 Well, and I was going to say, I mean, but the last thing, if you don't mind, Commissioner

00:49:21.820 --> 00:49:28.020
 Ellis, that I'll add is several cities have rethought their parking requirements, where

00:49:28.020 --> 00:49:31.180
 we have reduced the minimum parking requirements.

00:49:31.180 --> 00:49:34.780
 The city that I came from, we overhauled our parking regulations.

00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:40.260
 One of the reasons why we did is because we established new land use policies for certain

00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:41.260
 areas.

00:49:41.260 --> 00:49:44.860
 We were interested in seeing reinvestment happen, particularly within an area that was

00:49:44.860 --> 00:49:50.100
 originally developed as more of an industrial park, but we were wanting to allow for uses

00:49:50.100 --> 00:49:54.540
 such as restaurants, which if people are driving there, they're going to have a greater number

00:49:54.540 --> 00:49:59.740
 of parking spaces, right, retail and bars, and accommodating some of these more social

00:49:59.740 --> 00:50:02.700
 uses in an area that originally developed as an industrial district.

00:50:02.700 --> 00:50:06.700
 Well, as an industrial district, there was very little parking provided, but we went

00:50:06.700 --> 00:50:12.340
 and we modified our parking requirements because we knew if we want these buildings to be reused

00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:17.860
 for many of these other types of uses that we're interested in having, normally, a restaurant

00:50:17.860 --> 00:50:22.780
 use would have had to provide parking at one space per 100 square feet of building area,

00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:27.100
 whereas a warehouse building is one space per 1,000 square feet.

00:50:27.100 --> 00:50:32.260
 So in order to accommodate adaptive reuse of those sites, we lessened the parking requirement

00:50:32.260 --> 00:50:37.540
 and took the parking minimums, I think, to one space per 400 square feet.

00:50:37.540 --> 00:50:43.220
 And then we also standardized office parking, retail service uses, so that way, if someone

00:50:43.220 --> 00:50:46.660
 makes investment in the property, maybe they had to add a little more parking, but if that

00:50:46.660 --> 00:50:51.540
 tenant ever leaves, then another tenant can go in there and be able to occupy that building.

00:50:51.540 --> 00:50:56.820
 So there is a strong move towards reducing parking minimums, allowing the market to be

00:50:56.820 --> 00:51:00.900
 able to dictate, but also allowing the businesses to be able to really assess on how many parking

00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:04.660
 spaces they think that they would need in order to be able to support their development.

00:51:04.660 --> 00:51:07.300
 So I'll get off my parking soapbox now.

00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:11.140
 Because we don't want to take away from the focus of planning.

00:51:11.140 --> 00:51:15.380
 Well, I know they're on their last slide.

00:51:15.380 --> 00:51:19.520
 So just to wrap this presentation up, we wanted to leave you all with some further information

00:51:19.520 --> 00:51:20.900
 and reading.

00:51:20.900 --> 00:51:24.460
 We have a bunch of different websites listed here, kind of talking about those different

00:51:24.460 --> 00:51:26.380
 framing devices that Julie mentioned.

00:51:26.380 --> 00:51:30.300
 We have Kevin Lynch, the image of the city.

00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:35.060
 We have our historic aerials, which you can find on our city website, also WalkScore.

00:51:35.060 --> 00:51:36.480
 And then in general, just travel.

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:42.420
 Get out, explore North Texas, explore other states, you know, as this world is starting

00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:47.360
 to slowly open, you know, get out and just kind of explore those urban environments that

00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.020
 are kind of at your fingertips.

00:51:49.020 --> 00:51:51.060
 And that is it.

00:51:51.060 --> 00:51:53.940
 Thank you.

00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:54.940
 Commissioner Anderson.

00:51:54.940 --> 00:51:55.940
 Thanks, Chair.

00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:56.940
 I have a quick question.

00:51:56.940 --> 00:52:00.540
 I have traveled to a few other cities.

00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:06.500
 And one city in particular is St. Peterburg, Florida.

00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:12.780
 And they have the scenes called First Fridays, and where they shut down the blocks around

00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:19.340
 the city and they set up stages at the end and they have, I mean, it's a fun place for

00:52:19.340 --> 00:52:21.660
 everybody enjoys First Fridays.

00:52:21.660 --> 00:52:26.580
 And I was thinking, since we have Thursdays up on the square, maybe the city could think

00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:29.960
 about doing something like that, where we could call it, you know, Third Thursdays or

00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:37.140
 something like this, where the Third Thursday of the month, where they block off from industrial,

00:52:37.140 --> 00:52:43.340
 where we can get those people involved to the west side, to like 9-4-0 and get those

00:52:43.340 --> 00:52:50.540
 bars and those restaurants involved, not just bars, sorry, you know, and spread it out and

00:52:50.540 --> 00:52:56.260
 have where, you know, those roads are shut down, and everybody knows on Third Thursday,

00:52:56.260 --> 00:53:00.460
 and maybe have some live music and stuff like this and get people coming to the city and

00:53:00.460 --> 00:53:01.460
 stuff like this.

00:53:01.460 --> 00:53:04.700
 So I don't know who you would talk to, or I'd talk to, or whatever, but I just want

00:53:04.700 --> 00:53:08.180
 to throw that out there and let that be on the record, maybe something that, because

00:53:08.180 --> 00:53:09.180
 it's a fun, fun thing.

00:53:09.180 --> 00:53:11.100
 It really is.

00:53:11.100 --> 00:53:16.540
 If you haven't been to St. Petersburg on First Fridays, it's a blast.

00:53:16.540 --> 00:53:18.420
 And just letting you know.

00:53:18.420 --> 00:53:23.220
 And I think it would be a great economic boom for the city on, I'm doing like a Third Thursday

00:53:23.220 --> 00:53:24.220
 or something like that.

00:53:24.220 --> 00:53:25.220
 So anyway, just my opinion.

00:53:25.220 --> 00:53:26.220
 That's a great idea.

00:53:26.220 --> 00:53:27.220
 Any other questions?

00:53:27.220 --> 00:53:28.220
 Commissioner Perot?

00:53:28.220 --> 00:53:29.220
 Yeah, just one.

00:53:29.220 --> 00:53:30.220
 Thank you.

00:53:30.220 --> 00:53:31.220
 First of all, great, great overview.

00:53:31.220 --> 00:53:36.460
 Very helpful, especially in the context of the history of Denton.

00:53:36.460 --> 00:53:41.940
 It's hard for me to find those historical aerial imagery, and that really tells a great

00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:43.940
 picture.

00:53:43.940 --> 00:53:48.180
 I guess the question I have, I really appreciated the harvest example.

00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:50.660
 I know that wasn't from Denton.

00:53:50.660 --> 00:53:58.000
 And I'm wondering sort of if you can tell us what the planning or economic trends are

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:05.460
 that are encouraging more newer development like that, and sort of what impediments exist

00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:12.100
 to being able to allow development like that that might sort of mix between a suburban

00:54:12.100 --> 00:54:16.340
 and an urban form, if that makes sense.

00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:18.100
 Whether it's parking or something else.

00:54:18.100 --> 00:54:23.480
 No, we don't have to have the litany of the answer right now, but I'm just very interested

00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:31.660
 in seeing, you know, I think in your original definition slide, there was a reference to

00:54:31.660 --> 00:54:35.260
 how areas develop over time, right?

00:54:35.260 --> 00:54:40.700
 And I think I've been fairly clear that I care about things at a longer lifespan than

00:54:40.700 --> 00:54:42.700
 how long I've been alive, right?

00:54:42.700 --> 00:54:51.340
 And so I try to evaluate things based on how an area could eventually evolve, right?

00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:54.060
 So I just offer that.

00:54:54.060 --> 00:54:59.060
 Well, that might be something we need to think about as we're moving forward in our comprehensive

00:54:59.060 --> 00:55:00.060
 planning.

00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:04.640
 This is kind of a good time to talk about this, because Ron's sitting behind us, and

00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:11.620
 he's working on that project, but our base zoning districts don't really encourage that

00:55:11.620 --> 00:55:15.900
 type of variety within the lot sizes in a development.

00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:27.740
 But our 2019 DDC does require open space, like usable open space, for some developments.

00:55:27.740 --> 00:55:32.740
 And I will say we're seeing a lot of planned developments within the city of Denton, and

00:55:32.740 --> 00:55:36.980
 y'all are seeing a lot of planned developments that I think bring in some of these principles,

00:55:36.980 --> 00:55:39.620
 and I anticipate you'll probably see more.

00:55:39.620 --> 00:55:45.420
 I think we also have some pretty big projects coming in, in terms of the west side of town

00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:47.220
 that bring in some of these principles.

00:55:47.220 --> 00:55:50.700
 So I anticipate we're going to be seeing more of it within the city of Denton.

00:55:50.700 --> 00:55:57.940
 But it's something we can continue to explore and talk about and use our brain trust in

00:55:57.940 --> 00:55:59.940
 the city to encourage.

00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:05.180
 Well, and what I would add to that is, to help address your question there, Commissioner

00:56:05.180 --> 00:56:10.740
 Pruitt is, you know, we are predominantly a suburban city, right?

00:56:10.740 --> 00:56:16.980
 And so we will have areas that may be more appropriate for more urban form of development.

00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:21.020
 The entire city is not going to evolve into an urban design city.

00:56:21.020 --> 00:56:25.060
 I mean, just the reality of that is the nature of that.

00:56:25.060 --> 00:56:32.940
 But as we are looking at reinvestment in certain areas within our community, understanding

00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:38.460
 what people desire today in terms of where they want to live and in their form of development,

00:56:38.460 --> 00:56:41.420
 I think we have the ability to be very intentional.

00:56:41.420 --> 00:56:46.820
 If we are wanting to allow for more urban infill design developments, then being more

00:56:46.820 --> 00:56:51.040
 intentional as to where we have those areas occur within our city.

00:56:51.040 --> 00:56:55.100
 Because again, I go back to the entire city is not going to become an urban development.

00:56:55.100 --> 00:56:59.960
 But I think, like you mentioned earlier, is that people come to Denton for a variety of

00:56:59.960 --> 00:57:04.460
 different reasons, but we can be intentional as to where we have certain areas of the city

00:57:04.460 --> 00:57:07.400
 be more urban in form.

00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:12.540
 We have to establish a plan in place and then be willing to follow that plan.

00:57:12.540 --> 00:57:16.500
 And that's where this comes into play, more importantly for you as appointed members of

00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:21.160
 the Planning and Zoning Commission, but even City Council also, is to have the wherewithal

00:57:21.160 --> 00:57:24.540
 to stick with the plan and stick with the vision for the area.

00:57:24.540 --> 00:57:30.340
 If you are wanting to see an area substantially evolve and be an urban village, if you will,

00:57:30.340 --> 00:57:35.260
 then you need to be willing to stay the course, know that you will be tested.

00:57:35.260 --> 00:57:38.500
 And one of the ways that you're going to be tested and you're tested on a regular basis

00:57:38.500 --> 00:57:42.420
 is resident opposition, okay, that whole not in my backyard.

00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:48.260
 There is there is an interest in Quimby, which is quality within my backyard, but it's being

00:57:48.260 --> 00:57:54.500
 able to be able to communicate to folks that this is the adopted policy and the plan for

00:57:54.500 --> 00:57:58.820
 the area, and we are interested in having this form of development happen within that

00:57:58.820 --> 00:57:59.820
 area.

00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:09.180
 So thank you, but I do see where opposition has been brought forward by Commissioner McDade

00:58:09.180 --> 00:58:16.620
 with district one regarding certain properties and the City Council does totally opposite

00:58:16.620 --> 00:58:22.540
 of what we voted for when they didn't they were opposed certain things and then they

00:58:22.540 --> 00:58:23.540
 get upset.

00:58:23.540 --> 00:58:30.580
 So the citizens in district one don't believe that what they say gets done because City

00:58:30.580 --> 00:58:33.060
 Council does opposite of what we try to vote for.

00:58:33.060 --> 00:58:38.700
 Well, and I think that's where having a plan in place as to how we want an area to develop

00:58:38.700 --> 00:58:43.260
 and Commissioner McDade and Haley and I were having a conversation earlier about if we

00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:48.740
 have an opportunity to do an area plan for Southeast Denton, then it's imperative that

00:58:48.740 --> 00:58:54.340
 we engage the residents that own property and reside within that area the community

00:58:54.340 --> 00:58:59.500
 to be part of establishing the plan in the vision for the area.

00:58:59.500 --> 00:59:05.020
 And then that way the subsequent steps are implementing the vision and plan for the area.

00:59:05.020 --> 00:59:09.560
 Right now I think some would say that the Southeast Denton area lacks a plan or vision

00:59:09.560 --> 00:59:10.980
 in place for it.

00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:17.100
 And so when we get zoning requests in being proposed for the area, is it truly implementing

00:59:17.100 --> 00:59:22.300
 what the what the city wants is it what's the neighborhood wants and and so we're at

00:59:22.300 --> 00:59:25.700
 a challenge if we don't have a vision and plan for that area.

00:59:25.700 --> 00:59:31.000
 So it's that's where it becomes more challenging for you for you all as the commission, but

00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:33.260
 also in council.

00:59:33.260 --> 00:59:37.700
 I think there's been probably a lot of lessons learned as a result of that zoning case and

00:59:37.700 --> 00:59:41.460
 a lot of opportunity, you know hindsight is always 20/20 right.

00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:45.620
 So there's been a lot of opportunity to think about how maybe we could have addressed that

00:59:45.620 --> 00:59:50.820
 zoning case differently from a from a decision standpoint, but I think a lot of it goes back

00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:54.380
 to is we have to have a vision and a plan for the area.

00:59:54.380 --> 00:59:57.980
 The comprehensive plan we're working on the update right now, but that's a very high level

00:59:57.980 --> 01:00:01.580
 you have 30,000 level assessment of the city.

01:00:01.580 --> 01:00:04.860
 It's not a lot by lot assessment like zoning is.

01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:09.180
 And so if there are opportunities to do area plans when you know in Southeast end would

01:00:09.180 --> 01:00:13.940
 be a great opportunity to do an area plan, but it has the community involved in it for

01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:19.440
 the community to help define what they want for the future of their city and how they

01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:24.860
 want to see it evolve, or in some cases maybe stay the same, but it's that we have to have

01:00:24.860 --> 01:00:29.700
 that public input and then adopt a plan for the area and then stay the course with a plan.

01:00:29.700 --> 01:00:35.940
 But I agree, I totally agree, but I do think the citizens of district one feel that their

01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:44.900
 voice isn't heard due to the lack of their voice being understood from the council or

01:00:44.900 --> 01:00:50.060
 PNC commissioners brought forward a couple of different things.

01:00:50.060 --> 01:00:54.740
 And I believe the citizens of district one believe it's what the city wants done and

01:00:54.740 --> 01:00:58.300
 what developers want done, and not what the citizens want done.

01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:05.540
 Okay, I'm going to circle back because we're getting off topic and yeah, and, and, and,

01:01:05.540 --> 01:01:10.180
 and we're missing the opportunity to thank you for an incredibly wonderful presentation.

01:01:10.180 --> 01:01:13.060
 Truly was fantastic.

01:01:13.060 --> 01:01:14.380
 Super interesting.

01:01:14.380 --> 01:01:19.180
 I hope we can continue focus on more urban design here in the city.

01:01:19.180 --> 01:01:24.820
 I think we have great opportunity to continue what we have at the square and to and to continue

01:01:24.820 --> 01:01:29.460
 to make that better here in my opinion.

01:01:29.460 --> 01:01:34.180
 Also with taking it back to this discussion that just was getting started, as my predecessor

01:01:34.180 --> 01:01:38.780
 used to say, we don't do enough planning.

01:01:38.780 --> 01:01:43.060
 And we need to do more planning because that is how we will make better decisions and how

01:01:43.060 --> 01:01:47.860
 things will come together, come together better.

01:01:47.860 --> 01:01:53.220
 And as we get citizen involvement in that planning, we will have less opposition things

01:01:53.220 --> 01:01:57.860
 can grow in a smoother way.

01:01:57.860 --> 01:02:02.460
 At any rate, thank you so much for all your hard work and that it was fantastic.

01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:07.220
 Mr. Ellis, if I could ask one question, going back to their last slide.

01:02:07.220 --> 01:02:11.660
 So Cameron and Julie talked about traveling and getting out and so we were having these

01:02:11.660 --> 01:02:15.900
 conversations internally in some previous communities I've worked in, I've taken the

01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:22.500
 planning and zoning commission on the road, typically within the DFW area, but taking

01:02:22.500 --> 01:02:26.620
 them out to see other types of development that's happening.

01:02:26.620 --> 01:02:30.420
 Looking at examples that may be transferable to our community.

01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:34.940
 But if that is something the commission is interested in doing and you're willing to

01:02:34.940 --> 01:02:40.700
 maybe allocate a day, it could be a weekday, it could be a Saturday, we can take a full

01:02:40.700 --> 01:02:43.980
 day, we can try and condense it down, but if that would be something that you are interested

01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:49.140
 in doing, I think there would be some interest on my team also in being able to venture out

01:02:49.140 --> 01:02:50.340
 and take you on the road.

01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:54.740
 We could rent a bus and make sure we have a lunch stop and bathroom breaks along the

01:02:54.740 --> 01:02:55.740
 way.

01:02:55.740 --> 01:03:00.500
 So just seeing other developments that have occurred and what might be some lessons learned

01:03:00.500 --> 01:03:02.940
 that can be transferred and applicable to Denton.

01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:05.460
 Sign me up for that field trip.

01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:06.460
 Okay.

01:03:06.460 --> 01:03:07.460
 Okay.

01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:08.460
 Awesome.

01:03:08.460 --> 01:03:09.460
 Thank you.

01:03:09.460 --> 01:03:10.460
 Okay.

01:03:10.460 --> 01:03:15.860
 Next item on the agenda is clarification of agenda items for tonight.

01:03:15.860 --> 01:03:18.340
 First would be the minutes for December 1st.

01:03:18.340 --> 01:03:21.180
 Any discussion, questions, concerns on that?

01:03:21.180 --> 01:03:22.180
 Commissioner Prut.

01:03:22.180 --> 01:03:23.180
 Sorry.

01:03:23.180 --> 01:03:24.180
 I jumped the gun.

01:03:24.180 --> 01:03:25.180
 None.

01:03:25.180 --> 01:03:26.180
 No?

01:03:26.180 --> 01:03:29.180
 Okay.

01:03:29.180 --> 01:03:31.020
 Next would be consent agenda.

01:03:31.020 --> 01:03:32.580
 Any Commissioner Prut?

01:03:32.580 --> 01:03:33.580
 Yeah.

01:03:33.580 --> 01:03:37.760
 I just request that we pull item A so that I can recuse some family members nearby to

01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:38.760
 that plot.

01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.760
 Okay.

01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:57.540
 So we're going to pull 3A and move that to individual consideration.

01:03:57.540 --> 01:03:59.860
 Anything else on consent agenda?

01:03:59.860 --> 01:04:10.860
 Okay, how about 4A that is being recommended for denial?

01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:13.860
 Any discussion on that?

01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:15.660
 Okay.

01:04:15.660 --> 01:04:18.140
 How about 4B?

01:04:18.140 --> 01:04:22.620
 That has been revised from our original backup and everybody was emailed that.

01:04:22.620 --> 01:04:24.220
 That is now recommended approval.

01:04:24.220 --> 01:04:27.540
 Do we have any concerns, discussion on that?

01:04:27.540 --> 01:04:34.540
 Okay, then 4C, that is recommended denial.

01:04:34.540 --> 01:04:42.620
 Okay, and then our public hearing, if you did not see the email, the applicant has asked

01:04:42.620 --> 01:04:47.700
 that we continue that public hearing into January, I believe January 12th.

01:04:47.700 --> 01:04:49.700
 Is that correct?

01:04:49.700 --> 01:04:50.700
 Yes, ma'am.

01:04:50.700 --> 01:04:54.500
 So the plan will be to open the public hearing.

01:04:54.500 --> 01:05:00.420
 We can see if there are public comments, since they don't know yet that we're being postponed.

01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:04.860
 We will leave that item open to be heard again in January.

01:05:04.860 --> 01:05:09.700
 Any discussion on that one?

01:05:09.700 --> 01:05:11.180
 Concerns?

01:05:11.180 --> 01:05:12.340
 Okay.

01:05:12.340 --> 01:05:15.900
 Well with that, that will end our work session.

01:05:15.900 --> 01:05:17.780
 I will close us at 6.09.

01:05:17.780 --> 01:05:22.980
 We'll meet back here at 6.30.

01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:26.660
 Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for

01:05:26.660 --> 01:05:29.620
 Wednesday December 15th.

01:05:29.620 --> 01:05:35.020
 With a quorum present, I will call us to order at 6.37 p.m.

01:05:35.020 --> 01:05:39.340
 Let the record show that Commissioner Smith is absent this evening.

01:05:39.340 --> 01:05:43.820
 First item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. and Texas Flags.

01:05:43.820 --> 01:05:53.580
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

01:05:53.580 --> 01:06:00.020
 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

01:06:00.020 --> 01:06:08.940
 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and

01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:09.940
 indivisible.

01:06:09.940 --> 01:06:17.780
 All right, our next item of business is consider the minutes for the planning and zoning meeting

01:06:17.780 --> 01:06:19.180
 December 1st.

01:06:19.180 --> 01:06:20.180
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:06:20.180 --> 01:06:24.420
 Move to approve the minutes from the last meeting.

01:06:24.420 --> 01:06:25.420
 Commissioner Anderson.

01:06:25.420 --> 01:06:26.420
 Second.

01:06:26.420 --> 01:06:31.220
 We've got a first and a second for approval of the December 1st meeting.

01:06:31.220 --> 01:06:32.220
 Any discussion?

01:06:32.220 --> 01:06:33.220
 All right.

01:06:33.220 --> 01:06:42.460
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:06:42.460 --> 01:06:44.420
 Motion carries 6-0.

01:06:44.420 --> 01:06:47.020
 That will move us to our consent agenda.

01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:53.980
 We are pulling item 3A from the consent agenda.

01:06:53.980 --> 01:06:59.980
 And with that, the Chair can entertain a motion.

01:06:59.980 --> 01:07:00.980
 Commissioner Anderson.

01:07:00.980 --> 01:07:06.700
 I make a motion to pull the item from the consent agenda, or make a motion to approve

01:07:06.700 --> 01:07:12.020
 the consent agenda with the item pulled.

01:07:12.020 --> 01:07:13.020
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:07:13.020 --> 01:07:14.020
 And I second.

01:07:14.020 --> 01:07:15.020
 Okay.

01:07:15.020 --> 01:07:20.100
 We've got a first and a second to approve the consent agenda minus item 3A.

01:07:20.100 --> 01:07:21.100
 Any discussion?

01:07:21.100 --> 01:07:22.100
 Okay.

01:07:22.100 --> 01:07:32.660
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:07:32.660 --> 01:07:34.740
 Motion carries 6-0.

01:07:34.740 --> 01:07:37.220
 That will move us to items for individual consideration.

01:07:37.220 --> 01:07:41.660
 The first item we will hear is the item that was pulled from consent.

01:07:41.660 --> 01:07:54.460
 Commissioner Pruitt is recusing himself from that item, and that is FP21-0035A.

01:07:54.460 --> 01:07:56.700
 Haley did you want to come up for that, please?

01:07:56.700 --> 01:07:57.700
 Thank you.

01:07:57.700 --> 01:07:58.700
 Happy to answer any questions.

01:07:58.700 --> 01:08:05.700
 The plat is recommended for approval, but I can pull it up if there are any questions

01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:06.700
 or discussion.

01:08:06.700 --> 01:08:07.700
 Okay.

01:08:07.700 --> 01:08:08.700
 Thank you, Haley.

01:08:08.700 --> 01:08:09.700
 Is there any discussion on this item?

01:08:09.700 --> 01:08:11.240
 I do not see any.

01:08:11.240 --> 01:08:12.780
 Thank you, Haley, for that.

01:08:12.780 --> 01:08:13.780
 Commissioner Anderson.

01:08:13.780 --> 01:08:15.740
 Make a motion to approve the plat.

01:08:15.740 --> 01:08:16.740
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:08:16.740 --> 01:08:17.740
 Second.

01:08:17.740 --> 01:08:25.940
 We've got a first and a second for approval of FP21-0035A.

01:08:25.940 --> 01:08:35.180
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:08:35.180 --> 01:08:38.100
 That motion carries 5-0.

01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:44.440
 Our next item for individual consideration is item 4A, MP21-0019.

01:08:44.440 --> 01:08:48.700
 Hi, Ron.

01:08:48.700 --> 01:08:51.380
 Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the commission.

01:08:51.380 --> 01:08:57.740
 Pull up the presentation real quick.

01:08:57.740 --> 01:09:04.260
 Do you all see that?

01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:12.660
 This is a minor plat request for a property on the northwest corner of scripture connector.

01:09:12.660 --> 01:09:16.260
 I'm not sure we see that at all.

01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:19.620
 Oh, let me, sorry.

01:09:19.620 --> 01:09:25.860
 Let me try one more time.

01:09:25.860 --> 01:09:30.860
 There we go.

01:09:30.860 --> 01:09:42.180
 Again, this is a minor plat application for a property on the northwest corner of scripture

01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:43.860
 and Ector.

01:09:43.860 --> 01:09:50.340
 It is for a reconstruction or construction of a church on this property.

01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:57.580
 As of this afternoon, the applicant has not met all of the Denton Development Code requirements.

01:09:57.580 --> 01:10:05.500
 They have already received an extension, a 30-day extension, therefore today it is being

01:10:05.500 --> 01:10:11.140
 recommended for denial as they have not, again, met all the established criteria for an administratively

01:10:11.140 --> 01:10:12.140
 approved plat.

01:10:12.140 --> 01:10:14.340
 I'll stand for any questions.

01:10:14.340 --> 01:10:15.340
 Thank you, Ron.

01:10:15.340 --> 01:10:18.380
 I do not see any questions at this time.

01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:19.900
 Thank you so much.

01:10:19.900 --> 01:10:20.900
 Commissioner Villarreal.

01:10:20.900 --> 01:10:21.900
 I move to deny the plat.

01:10:21.900 --> 01:10:22.900
 Commissioner Pohl?

01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:23.900
 Second.

01:10:23.900 --> 01:10:27.660
 Okay, we've got a first and a second for denial of item 4A.

01:10:27.660 --> 01:10:28.660
 Any discussion?

01:10:28.660 --> 01:10:37.540
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:10:37.540 --> 01:10:43.340
 Motion carries 6-0, taking us to 4B, PPP 210031A.

01:10:43.340 --> 01:10:46.380
 Hi, Julie.

01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:50.140
 Good evening.

01:10:50.140 --> 01:10:59.220
 I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton, and this is PPP 210031A.

01:10:59.220 --> 01:11:06.860
 We originally, when the agenda posted, they had one more item to address, but they were

01:11:06.860 --> 01:11:13.300
 able to get that corrected, and so where we were recommending denial when the agenda posted,

01:11:13.300 --> 01:11:17.140
 we are now recommending approval, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

01:11:17.140 --> 01:11:18.140
 Thanks, Julie.

01:11:18.140 --> 01:11:21.140
 Any other questions for Julie?

01:11:21.140 --> 01:11:22.140
 I don't see any, Julie.

01:11:22.140 --> 01:11:23.140
 Thank you.

01:11:23.140 --> 01:11:24.140
 Commissioner Anderson?

01:11:24.140 --> 01:11:26.420
 Making motion to approve.

01:11:26.420 --> 01:11:27.420
 Commissioner Villarreal?

01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:28.420
 Second.

01:11:28.420 --> 01:11:32.340
 Got a first and a second for approval of item 4B.

01:11:32.340 --> 01:11:35.140
 Any discussion there?

01:11:35.140 --> 01:11:44.060
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:11:44.060 --> 01:11:45.500
 Motion carries 6-0.

01:11:45.500 --> 01:11:55.060
 That will bring us to 4C, PPP 210029A, and that's Julie's item again.

01:11:55.060 --> 01:11:59.420
 All right.

01:11:59.420 --> 01:12:03.380
 So this is PPP 210029A.

01:12:03.380 --> 01:12:08.620
 It is a preliminary plat for a mixed-density development.

01:12:08.620 --> 01:12:10.500
 They still have some comments they need to address.

01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:16.500
 They did receive an extension prior to, so staff is recommending denial of the plat.

01:12:16.500 --> 01:12:19.460
 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

01:12:19.460 --> 01:12:21.020
 Thank you, Julie.

01:12:21.020 --> 01:12:23.420
 I do not see any questions.

01:12:23.420 --> 01:12:24.420
 Commissioner Villarreal?

01:12:24.420 --> 01:12:26.780
 Move to deny the plat.

01:12:26.780 --> 01:12:27.780
 Commissioner Cole?

01:12:27.780 --> 01:12:28.780
 Second.

01:12:28.780 --> 01:12:31.220
 Got a first and a second to deny item 4C.

01:12:31.220 --> 01:12:32.220
 Any discussion?

01:12:32.220 --> 01:12:33.220
 All right.

01:12:33.220 --> 01:12:42.620
 Let's vote on the board, please.

01:12:42.620 --> 01:12:44.580
 Motion carries 6-0.

01:12:44.580 --> 01:12:54.780
 That will take us to our public hearing item for this evening, 5A, which is PD 210004.

01:12:54.780 --> 01:13:00.500
 I will go ahead and open the public hearing and also state that the applicant has requested

01:13:00.500 --> 01:13:08.540
 that that public comment hearing be continued until January 12th.

01:13:08.540 --> 01:13:14.460
 I will state that we have received 12 virtual comment cards at this time in opposition of

01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:24.140
 this item, and I will check with Vanessa to see if there is anyone on the phone.

01:13:24.140 --> 01:13:26.300
 We do not have any callers right now.

01:13:26.300 --> 01:13:27.300
 Okay.

01:13:27.300 --> 01:13:29.580
 Thank you.

01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:30.580
 Anyone in the audience?

01:13:30.580 --> 01:13:35.580
 We're not going to discuss the item in detail, but if you are here to speak on this item,

01:13:35.580 --> 01:13:40.180
 you can speak this evening if you would like to.

01:13:40.180 --> 01:13:42.380
 Okay.

01:13:42.380 --> 01:13:45.220
 I do not see any.

01:13:45.220 --> 01:13:50.900
 The Chair will entertain a motion to continue this item as requested by the applicant.

01:13:50.900 --> 01:13:51.900
 Commissioner Villarreal?

01:13:51.900 --> 01:13:56.300
 I move to continue this item until January 15th, correct?

01:13:56.300 --> 01:13:58.500
 January 12th, I believe, was it requested?

01:13:58.500 --> 01:13:59.500
 Yes.

01:13:59.500 --> 01:14:00.500
 It was requested.

01:14:00.500 --> 01:14:01.500
 Commissioner Cold?

01:14:01.500 --> 01:14:02.500
 Second.

01:14:02.500 --> 01:14:03.500
 Okay.

01:14:03.500 --> 01:14:08.620
 We have a first and a second to continue this public hearing item to a date certain

01:14:08.620 --> 01:14:10.860
 of January 12th.

01:14:10.860 --> 01:14:16.960
 Any discussion?

01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:25.020
 Seeing none, let's vote on the board, please.

01:14:25.020 --> 01:14:27.460
 Motion carries 6-0.

01:14:27.460 --> 01:14:33.020
 That will take us to agenda item 6, our planning and zoning commission matrix, and I will turn

01:14:33.020 --> 01:14:34.020
 it over to Tina.

01:14:34.020 --> 01:14:35.020
 Thank you, Chairman Ellis.

01:14:35.020 --> 01:14:39.220
 Just a few items to update the planning and zoning commission on.

01:14:39.220 --> 01:14:46.020
 So, yesterday afternoon, evening, the criteria manuals were all approved, and thank you all

01:14:46.020 --> 01:14:51.540
 for your input related to those, all four of those, council was able to approve yesterday

01:14:51.540 --> 01:14:52.540
 evening.

01:14:52.540 --> 01:14:57.220
 Also, we gave a presentation regarding the purpose of the conference of plan and all

01:14:57.220 --> 01:15:00.900
 the components associated with the conference of plan and discussed next steps as we move

01:15:00.900 --> 01:15:05.540
 into the adoption phase for the Denton 2040 plan update.

01:15:05.540 --> 01:15:09.300
 With that discussion was discussion about having some work session meetings both with

01:15:09.300 --> 01:15:13.100
 the planning and zoning commission and city council, so Selena will likely be reaching

01:15:13.100 --> 01:15:16.900
 out to you, letting you know when those dates are.

01:15:16.900 --> 01:15:22.620
 What we're proposing is doing a work session discussion with the commission in February,

01:15:22.620 --> 01:15:26.420
 and it would be like from 10 to 2, in which we would provide lunch for you to have that

01:15:26.420 --> 01:15:28.100
 discussion.

01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:32.820
 This is after a presentation that we intend to share with the commission on January 12.

01:15:32.820 --> 01:15:36.140
 So just some items that are on your radar for the future.

01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:39.260
 Also I had to think back to some of the zoning cases we've had recently because we haven't

01:15:39.260 --> 01:15:43.180
 had anything on council's agenda in a while, but the Harris track, the rezoning request

01:15:43.180 --> 01:15:49.060
 to light industrial was approved on that property, and that occurred I believe right before Thanksgiving.

01:15:49.060 --> 01:15:57.020
 And then also we had a rezoning request of a lot from rural residential to our ones are

01:15:57.020 --> 01:15:58.020
 one or two.

01:15:58.020 --> 01:15:59.020
 One.

01:15:59.020 --> 01:16:00.020
 Okay, our one zoning district, thank you.

01:16:00.020 --> 01:16:04.100
 That's why I have a great team to help me out on this, but requested reason to our one.

01:16:04.100 --> 01:16:08.780
 This property was on Miller road just east of mosh branch road, and so therefore that

01:16:08.780 --> 01:16:13.580
 request was approved, but other than that, that's all I have for updates.

01:16:13.580 --> 01:16:19.980
 Thank you, Tina will invite anything on to the matrix, Commissioner mcday.

01:16:19.980 --> 01:16:21.940
 Thank you, chair.

01:16:21.940 --> 01:16:28.740
 I'm curious to see if we in the near future we can have a work session on just parking,

01:16:28.740 --> 01:16:32.460
 whether it be commercial and residential if that's possible.

01:16:32.460 --> 01:16:36.740
 There's a lot of questions that I have that I didn't want to bring up in the work session

01:16:36.740 --> 01:16:41.660
 because we'd be here all night, but there's a lot of questions that I'm concerned about

01:16:41.660 --> 01:16:45.580
 parkings made more or less residential residential commercial.

01:16:45.580 --> 01:16:51.500
 Okay, happy to add that to the matrix and then maybe if we can follow up with you one

01:16:51.500 --> 01:16:54.820
 on one just to make sure we understand if there's anything particular you're wanting

01:16:54.820 --> 01:16:55.820
 us to cover.

01:16:55.820 --> 01:16:56.820
 All right.

01:16:56.820 --> 01:16:57.820
 Thank you.

01:16:57.820 --> 01:16:58.820
 Thank you.

01:16:58.820 --> 01:17:01.900
 Anything else for the matrix?

01:17:01.900 --> 01:17:04.280
 Any concluding items?

01:17:04.280 --> 01:17:11.820
 Well, I will just say happy holidays to everyone since I believe this is our last meeting for

01:17:11.820 --> 01:17:13.940
 this year.

01:17:13.940 --> 01:17:17.420
 And I will go ahead and adjourn us at 649 PM.

01:17:17.420 --> 01:17:17.620
 Thank you.