Dec 14, 2021 City Council on 2021-12-14 2:00 PM (SPECIAL CALLED MEETING)
December 14, 2021 City Council
Full Transcript
And good afternoon welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council today is Tuesday
December 14th it is 2 p.m. and we do have a quorum so I'll call this meeting to order
we do not have any citizen comments on the consent agenda so that takes us to request
a clarification on agenda items listed agenda items listed on it on this agenda so questions
for counts from council councilmember Davis thank you mayor I just need to pull items
jk and s for recusal please that's jk and s okay uh councilman armature and I was going
to ask to have s pulled so I could vote no but it looks like it's being pulled already
so okay great any other questions for staff on consent seeing none okay thank you very
much thank you and that takes us to our first work session and before I call that just to
recap so there'll be no presentations for from the consent agenda just jk and s will
be pulled for separate vote thank y'all very much first work session item is item id 211803
receive a report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding audit project 004
police property room procedures all right madison rocha denton city auditor I'm here
to present our findings from this follow-up review so as a reminder follow-up reviews
are intended to provide information on what changes have been made in response to an issued
audit and this review was based on the recommendations and management responses originally compiled
in the police property room audit which was issued in june of 2019 the original audit
evaluated the police department's ability to record and safeguard high-risk property
and evidence items including firearms narcotics and currency this review found that the police
property rooms procedures had generally been updated and improved I do want to note that
of the 17 recommendations originally issued five were considered to be not yet due because
they're based on the physical changes that are expected to be implemented once the current
police station remodel is complete during the remodel the current property and evidence
items have been relocated to a temporary location and according to staff this complies with
the Texas police chiefs associations physical security standards the temporary location
does so to begin as part of the original audit we found that controls over who had access
to the police department's property and evidence room could be improved in particular we recommended
that background checks be performed before staff was assigned to the property room even
if they were being transferred from a different police department unit we also recommended
that staff at least at least annually verify that only authorized employees had badge access
to the property room these two recommendations appear to have been implemented and included
in the police department's revised general order specifically the revised general order
clarifies that background checks must be conducted before transfer into the property room and
additionally requires an annual drug screening and biennial credit check for all property
technicians the property room supervisor is also required to annually verify that only
authorized employees have access to the property room and as part of the follow-up review audit
staff verified that only property technicians had independent access to the property room
as of November 2021 the original audit also recommended that the police department consider
having the dispatch unit monitor the property room cameras to help identify any unusual
or suspicious activity the police department originally disagreed with this recommendation
however they have begun storing property room camera footage for three years as opposed
to I believe was 60 days they're also planning to audit this footage monthly and are planning
to have an annual independent review of the footage so internal audit believes that the
implementation of these secondary controls kind of mitigate the risk that unusual or
suspicious activity occurs and is not identified in the property room next the original audit
found several issues with the property room division's inventory monitoring processes
so specifically there were no defined procedures in the general order to guide staff and following
up on the status of items that were checked out of the property room by police officers
or if an item was found to be missing there are no procedures about the what to do if
that happened in addition while the police department had procedures to perform quarterly
property room audits these covered less than 1% of high risk items each year so for these
reasons we recommended that staff develop processes to follow up on checked out items
um and to initiate investigations if an item was found to be missing we also recommended
that the department ensure all high risk inventory items reviewed annually and that staff keep
an up to date count of currency items stored in the property room so based on the follow
up review we found that the general order had been updated to require property room
staff to maintain a record of all checked out items and to require the property room
division supervisor to investigate missing items that being said based on discussion
with division staff there's currently no process to regular regularly follow up on checked
out evidence items so staff believes that the implementation of a new record management
system may allow for them to receive notifications that an item should be followed up on potentially
facilitating that process in addition since the completion of the original audit the police
department has adopted the texas police chiefs association standards and is working towards
accreditation these standards do not require a complete inventory of high risk items annually
but instead instead allow for a large inventory sample of over 1000 items to be reviewed annually
instead and the police department has engaged internal audit to conduct this inventory so
we're scheduled to begin that in January of 2022 in addition the department completed
the last three quarterly inspections in compliance with these new standards and the division
has also begun keeping account of currency items in the property room however based on
an on site review of 82 currency items on that list we found that it was not kept up
to date furthermore almost 10 of the items could not be located while we were on site
and several were not stored in the property rooms currency say currency vault and so further
revised general order the property room supervisor has begun an investigation into the location
of the missing items and I believe they found all but one at this point so next the original
audit found that the integrity of the property rooms record management system in which a
record of all property and evidence items and their chain of custody is maintained could
not be insured specifically this was because property room technicians were responsible
for creating the initial record of all property and evidence items in the system as well as
storing them in the evidence room so this electronic separation of duties issue issue
potentially allowed for property room technicians to take items before entering them into the
system while police officers did create an independent record of each item these were
maintained physically in PDF form making it extremely difficult to compare the independent
record to the record management system in addition the lead property room technician
had the ability to delete records from the record management system further decreasing
the integrity of the system so based on our follow-up review the police department still
requires property room staff to electronically create property and evidence items in the
record management system meaning that the separation of duties issue has not been resolved
staff believes that the implementation of a new record management system may correct
this issue however should be noted that the department has implemented a new record management
system since the original audit that being said the property technicians ability to delete
records has been removed and reassigned to the property room division supervisor and that
supervisor doesn't have independent physical access to the property room lastly the original
audit found that controls over the disposal of high-risk evidence items particularly items
that were to be destroyed could be improved specifically the property room staff currently
identify at that time they identify items that could be disposed of when they have time
the items are then placed in specific destruction boxes and are added to a list with other items
marked for destruction this process is illustrated on the top figure in the slide based on our
observations during the original audit the destruction boxes are left open until full
and in addition the list of items marked for destruction could be easily manipulated because
it was kept in Excel so these two issues allowed a property technician to potentially take
an item that was marked for destruction with little chance of being identified so for that
reason we recommended that an independent record of high-risk items marked for destruction
be maintained and that an independent witness be required to verify that all high-risk items
marked for destruction were in the boxes prior to actually being destroyed so based on our
follow-up review we found that the police department had updated the general order to
require independent verification of high-risk items marked for destruction and based on
a review of three randomly selected evidence destruction lists all had been certified by
an independent witness in addition the property room division has implemented a temporary
solution to document all items marked for destruction on a physical list instead of
in a list on in Excel while a physical list can still be manipulated process is much more
difficult to do so so the bottom figure on the slide kind of represents the new the current
destruction process with the two new controls in place finally we found that the city has
been awarded a sexual assault kit initiative grant to fund the testing of about 90 old
sexual assault kits that had not been tested when the original audit was conducted and
according to our property room staff all of these old untested kits have been submitted
to a testing agency so in summary we found that about two-thirds of the recommendations
that were due at this time were implemented and so that reason we recommend closing the
project until the police station remodel is complete and then we'll conduct a second follow-up
review so take questions okay thank you questions for staff council member armature yes thank
you so much for conducting this audit really important audit and thank you to the department
for complying I know that you know that there was some concern about waiting to the possibility
of waiting to implement some of these until the move to the new facility but I stand behind
and you know support the decision to get started in the current facility with the but of course
I understand that for the for the follow-up by the time it's time for a follow-up they'll
be in the new facility anyway so no of course you know I'm concerned about those one-third
of recommendations still working on but I know the department takes them seriously and
is working on them I was wondering if you could speak to the nature of those missing
items that were found just just roughly you know categorize them and the one remaining
I'm just curious if they're all of a certain category or if it's kind of arbitrary so they
mostly have to do with one of the big ones is the record management system the integrity
of that with the the current property room technicians because of the way they enter
the evidence into the system in theory if they could potentially take that item and
just not enter it into the system and then there would be no record of it because police
officers create a record of it but it's basically in a PDF form so that's still outstanding
they also a couple of inventory monitoring things were still outstanding I'm sorry sorry
to interrupt I didn't mean which are still outstanding my bad my bad I didn't mean which
are still outstanding I mean which of these like the physical items that you mentioned
yeah that oh they're yeah they were currency items so some of them were cash some of them
were like jewelry like watches or necklaces but there's one only one left and I believe
it that they haven't found and I think it was from like an ATM money from there so okay
thank you yeah okay council member you mentioned you mentioned the word independent review
several times who's independently reviewing so I think it depends just on which part you're
talking about with the destruction boxes they're having jailers were independently review that
so they just take the list they make sure that everything's in the box I think internal
affairs is also doing some things like monitoring looking at the camera footage and things like
that so it's all pretty much still in-house right so it the police department considers
independent and this is an industry standard just outside of that chain of command okay
thank you councilmember McGuire thank you I'm glad to hear that there's been so much progress
on updating these procedures that's really good news I'm especially glad to hear that
the department has caught up with the backlog of sexual assault testing kits is the grant
that sort of facilitated that is that an ongoing grant is there something that we as a council
need to do to ensure that a backlog like that doesn't occur again I think the I can't speak
exactly to the grant but I know that the process now which wasn't the process and was what
caused the backlog is to just immediately send it for testing that wasn't always the case
previously I think those were at least five years old when we did the original audit so
they were really old not really old but you know they were old and the process was different
at the time and that's why they weren't submitted for testing immediately so it's would you
characterize it as more of a procedural issue and less of a funding issue yes at this point
at this point okay yeah all right thank you so much I'm also curious about the the background
check procedure for property room personnel includes a polygraph and I know that we've
kind of like discussed this before councilmember Beck and I have discussed that that polygraphs
are really not there's not a lot a lot of evidence to support the use of polygraphs
and this may not be a good question for you but I was wondering if you know I know at
that time chief Dixon said that there were certain statutory requirements by the state
that required DPD to use polygraph in certain situations and I was just curious about if
this is one of those situations that's statutorily required I don't know I know that the property
technicians are civilian police employees so I don't know if there's actually required
or if they're used for their background checks so chief pageant do you have a good afternoon
frank pageant deputy chief police the statutory requirements for polygraph are more tied to
the sworn positions there are some unsworn civilian positions that we may want to polygraph
someone and that's what we're working with HR to see what is the industry standard for
hiring non-sworn non-police officers and what's appropriate because there's you know our jailers
our detention officers go through a different process than say you know a clerk at the city
manager's office because they they deal with cash taking property off of people that sort
of thing so if you're dealing with other people's property there may be a higher standard that
and you know as a city we want to make sure that we do check those people so that I understand
what you're saying about polygraphs so but that position wouldn't be mandated by statute
so no this is not one of the situations where it's it's it's mandated by a body other than
then you know the city or the police department okay yeah I think you know this is maybe not
a good conversation have right now but I think that we should revisit the issue of use of
polygraphs and make sure that they're really only being used in situations where there's
no alternative because they're there the evidence is really strong that that polygraphs are
not reliable and I don't know that we should be relying on those but another conversation
for another day that's all my questions thank you okay any other questions for staff thank
you very much thank you Texas item B which is ID 212406 receive a report hold a discussion
give staff direction regarding implementation of programs and policies proposed in the affordable
housing strategic plan afternoon mayor council Danny Shaw community services good afternoon
today we're going to go through our third presentation regarding the affordable housing
assessment that we did first presentation was in February of this year that at that
time we did receive direction to move forward with a phase two to develop the strategic
toolkit and then the consultants provided an overview of the strategies and the activities
that they're proposing in the strategic toolkit on in September so today we're here to review
what the final draft of that strategic toolkit review some of the options in the phasing
and look at some funding in the funding matrix and then discuss with you next steps in direction
from you all I won't go through this fully because we did hear most of this information
in the September presentation from the consultants but we're looking at the five recommended
strategies that you see in front of you infill development looking at our development code
for zoning relief and variance options looking at increasing the capacity and resources of
our local developers and then preservation which we already do in the city but preserving
affordability and then increasing information about affordable housing and housing options
in the community are the five strategies that have been recommended this chart provides
a summary of what the activities are within each of those strategies and again I won't
go through them but the point I wanted to make as we move forward with this discussion
is that many of these activities are interrelated and interconnected so some will have to be
happening before we can move on to others and I just want to make sure that that's clear
as we have our discussion today and then I want to jump into kind of the meat of our
conversation which is looking at the phasing that's been proposed same phasing that we
looked at in September didn't hear any specific direction then but want to go through that
and along with the funding recommendations that go with these as related to the phasing
so in year one which is this year 2021 and 2022 we're looking at our first items in the
strategic plan first off was increasing staff capacity now we already made a presentation
to council in the supplemental budgets for increasing our staff so this is actually already
been approved by you all in the budget will be including a housing programs coordinator
as soon as that position is filled and then that brings us to the activities that would
be proposed in this first year and what we're looking at with the funding for first year
recommendations and this funding request would be coming to you as a supplemental request
for this year's budget so with the affordable housing overlay is one of the first options
and then the interactive mapping tool which go together is to look at how we can either
do these but through a consultant assistance or in-house right now you're seeing what would
be the maximum request that we think would be for the supplemental request for this year
and but we could do some of these in-house as well these require the interactive mapping
tool gives us the opportunity to look at the different areas where there are vacancies
and other opportunities for the overlays which we we would look at them for incentives and
investments to create affordable housing in these particular overlay areas the third one
is the landlord rental maintenance grant this is prioritized to pilot for this first year
so the request here is fifty thousand dollars and what you're looking at in this chart though
is also an overview of what the ongoing expenditures or additional crest would be in outgoing years
so year two year three up a year five which we'll go through in a kind of a summary on
the last page and then the final strategy this year is to work with the Dent housing
authority to see how we might help them in an educational program for landlords to encourage
more landlords to open doors to people who are holding housing choice vouchers or section
vouchers as you might be more familiar with that brings us into year two where we start
to look at some of the other activities there's quite a few here but we're looking at an opportunity
to bank some land was to hold some options on some land for potential affordable housing
development nonprofit capacity building grant this is where we start to support the nonprofits
with their capacity in developing affordable housing and different options that might be
for them to either increase their funding revenues for that or other land options starting
to look at an affordable housing incentive package so what are those incentives that
are needed within the affordable housing overlays as an example and how those two are related
but what are the incentives necessary to help bring developers in to create some of those
new housing units a pre-development financing program it's exactly like it sounds providing
some upfront financing where the higher costs are and the development fees as we bring the
costs down with the programs like this then that helps developers provide in exchange
for that affordability within the units they're creating some work on creating some marketing
materials to bring developers to the community that we may not have here and also helping
to train all of our staff across the organization as they're looking at different options and
how they might impact or affect housing then there are two programs we start to look at
here in the development of which are around the recommendations of creating more unique
housing options like the small home communities cluster cottages tiny homes these types of
ideas here and then the accessory dwelling units so while we do have the opportunity
in the development code currently for individuals to add accessory dwelling units this is looking
at a program that would help incentivize that to develop more of those in the community
over time and then some educational programs like legal aid for eviction prevention and
other things like that again to preserve some of the affordable making sure people aren't
being evicted and have the resources they need to stay in their homes again related
to homelessness is an important strategy the funding in that second year would be looking
at a lot of different funding options for that we have currently so this is what you're
seeing here we're not looking at alternative options yet but I wanted to make a point here
that in every single year we will also be looking for alternative funding options that
are not in our traditional resources right now so what we have the general fund we have
cdbg we have home that we're already receiving we'd be looking at some other resources that
aren't in this list yet but potentially could be available to us including future legislation
that might pass all right and then we move into year three and that kind of our final
phase of the implementation of the strategies and then we start to see how things start
to work together looking at a housing trust where we're starting to protect the affordability
through land ownership maintaining land ownership for future affordability as well we're looking
at some homeownership programs so helping more people come here and purchase homes people
who work here can live here so all those programs much like we already have in our homebuyers
assistance program but expanding this to be focused on major employers starting with the
city but potentially the universities or other large employers in the community building
up a fund that would allow them to their employees to purchase a first time home in our community
we also have some additional options here with dha and their funding sources where we
want to potentially partner with them in a homeownership program where people are already
receiving vouchers and are using rental units being able to convert those folks and getting
them into homeownership potentially and eventually getting off of the assistance and subsidies
to their own self-sufficiency and then adding more units available through subsidy later
to other folks so this is what the summary looks like we try to look at some different
ways on how to present this but the goal here is to show you over time what the investment
would be in our existing resources and like I said before that may be that there are additional
resources that we'll bring in but what we're looking at at the maximum for general fund
would be about 3.5 over the next three five years and then that would also be matched
with 1.4 in federal funds and then some other resources coming in to support the overall
request of 5.5 million and that would create the projected units that we're looking at
on the right hand side so as you can see here one you're looking at the initial investment
and then the ongoing investments as each new item is added into the strategic toolkit over
the next five years so with that really we're looking for direction today if you are all
right with the proposal as it is we would then bring forward a resolution for you to
accept the draft and make it permanent for the strategic toolkit and then we would start
the process of looking at year one action items which would be that budget amendment
that I talked about and to begin to build out some of those for year one programs including
the landlord maintenance program and then we would start to look at then funding requests
for future years which would come to you and supplemental budget request through the budget
process one of the other items is on this in this bulleted list as we've been hearing
from council about the tiny home projects many of us had the opportunity to go down
and visit Austin and see their village down there and how they're doing tiny homes there
and so I wanted to put this item on here just to give you the opportunity to give us some
more clear direction on what you'd like to see us move forward with in this particular
area around tiny home specifically so we can have that discussion today as well.
So that I'm going to take the presentation down and then take questions.
Yeah so questions and direction to start so one thing that is missing from here but I
know is very much in your mind in the mind of everyone who's worked on this is the lack
of or the insufficient quantity of you have affordable units in the city of Denton to
meet our need and I was just scrolling through are the consultants excellent affordable housing
study trying to get to exactly those numbers but I'm sure you have them in your head in
your mind and if you don't then I can take another moment but if you could remind me
of you know how many of in terms of numbers you know where they said that we are in terms
of meeting the need well they think that over the next 10 years we're going to need to create
about 4,000 units right so that was there the initial proposal in the housing needs
assessment and then this this proposes to me that a portion of that through these strategies
with the expectation these strategies will also allow developers to come in knowing what
our goals are in the community and do that from the private market perspective to so
giving them the mechanisms to create those units that we wouldn't necessarily be subsidizing
through these strategies but will automatically be available to them because of some of the
things we're doing here yeah and so and so it wasn't clear to me from this you know what
percentage of those does this are is the current plan aiming to to meet to actually have developed
in city of Denton year by year yeah so about 1,700 out of the 4,300 through these invested
strategies with the council's investment and again many of these strategies that are creating
an environment where other folks can come in and develop under this without our financial
investment as well because when we start doing the overlay districts or when we start looking
at some of these strategies that's going to also incentivize and encourage other developers
to come in to the larger benefit but we think that what we would create specifically related
these $1,000,000 you're going to invest here if you were willing to will be sure half of
that yeah and so and so that's 1,700 is that per year or over the course of five years
over the course of sorry five years yeah we kind of showed you what we think is going
to happen again this is really kind of big estimate oh I understand yeah but we think
that that's what we're going to start to see from the different strategies and if you remember
in the September presentation there's the chart we can also make sure is available overall
what they thought the strategies would do based on the different strategy types yeah
so what I would love to see would be in this in this plan a mention of those goals in terms
of actual units per year that would be wonderful yeah we'll just pull that in from the previous
report we just didn't include it in here but exactly and even you know just so you know
so that's because I know that as I said you plural y'all you know have that very much
fresh in your minds at all times but I think it would be really helpful for a council and
the public to understand you know when we look at something like this and we see year
by year these are our goals you know we're talking like so that's like about like you
know five to six hundred ideally you know newly developed affordable housing units yes
per year is what we would like to see and that's what this is all about and that that's
what we're working towards and that would also be really helpful when affordable housing
opportunities come before us you know we could we could be told remember that remember you
voted on this plan and this is our goal of this helps contribute towards towards that
goal that we voted on you know aiming for at least as many units per year so anyway
so but as far as direction again I would love to see that included those those numbers of
and as far as tiny homes you know there's I know there's one group who has come before
council you know I would love to see momentum on that with whoever whatever groups if they're
the only group that has come forward doesn't even have to be a group could be a single
individual whoever wants to start putting tiny homes on the ground of course tiny homes
are just one piece of the puzzle we need a diversity of housing options that's one of
them so but yeah I approve of the funding I would like to know why land banking is in
year two and not year one I would love to see it in your way I think it's again as I
talked about some of these strategies are building on each other so we need that mapping
first we need some of that nonprofit capacity technical assistance to come in and start
because when we start looking at land banking we probably are going to be wanting to be
partnering or having some sort of new entity or some other group coming together who can
maintain that land banking option it won't necessarily be a city run project so it's
just some of those things are building on each other okay it's going to take us a little
while to get there but it's really year three so it's really not that far off okay yeah
I would hope and I'm sorry you're too yeah and I would I would hope that if if something
comes up a possibility comes up for some sort of land banking opportunity you know within
year one that we're able to you know even if that software is not yet in place you know
that we're able to seize that given the house the the price of price of land and whatnot
you know it's only going up I don't want us to shut off that possibility yeah I think
it's just the funding mechanism for it it's it's not going to be a cheap one and so we're
looking at all the different types of funding options so we've had discussions with bond
council we've had discussions with economic development on what other sources might fund
those types of projects like land banking so it's just we're probably going to be a
little bit more time to you to understand which things will work best in those scenarios
so for example and if we were to bond finance land for affordable housing that's going to
require an election so there's just things like that we need to make sure we iron out
first it's just going to take a little bit more time that's why it's in year two okay
thank you so much yeah mayor Tim Meltzer yeah thank you uh just first I would just share
an observation seems like the degree of you know collaboration with debt and housing authority
is relatively light in this plan and I just you know I harken back to when we did the
luncheon with them and talked about you know sort of the potential to work together and
kind of look at all this together and I just uh I I point that out because I just wonder
if we really sat down and said you know pooling resources looking at what they actually do
is you know they manage a big portfolio of affordable housing and they do you know a
lot of related functions uh I wonder if it would create some opportunities yeah if I
may really quickly please I did have a presentation with them so I went through all of this they
have seen the september one we put these strategies in very specifically and intentionally but
they as a developer will benefit from all of these other strategies as well so they're
not left out of this process we just didn't specifically list them they would absolutely
be probably number one on the non-profit developer list for technical assistance and looking
at ways in which we can leverage funding very specifically so I didn't don't want to you
think we didn't yeah I don't know and I take that I see you know I mean you're kind of
highlighting housing trust they could all be a part of that process as well yeah and
well you know where I was kind of going with that and that that and that's great I'm really
heartened to say that but you know I wonder if you know if we were working with them not
just as like a key kind of client almost but you know in a more integrated way could are
there resources there this this could be totally wrong but are the resources there that could
help us get faster out of the gate in terms of I don't know what mapping they have I don't
know like staff capacity is number one item and I just my my where I'm going is you know
ultimately you want to get more units on the ground you know and if there was a way to
put even these amounts of funding you know more into incentives and things that could
actually create units faster you know in year one you know I would like I'd be interested
in seeing that like particularly the staff capacity of mapping strike me as just just
if you look at you know the kind of the dollar amounts I mean that's sort of in the ballpark
of like the affordable housing incentive package so which so I took your point that these things
build on each other you've been really you know dwelling in this but that's my my my
little just question back is are there ways to squeeze some efficiency out of that relationship
so we can do some of the more unit creating things sooner do you want to give sort of
other bits of input now too or do you want to respond no I think just the same statement
there at capacity just like the rest of us so they would need to build their own capacity
as well because they're they're operating in the housing choice voucher program and
as a developer to add some of these other things would be the same for any anyone else
they want need time to build that process as well but we would be working with them
through all of these strategies and if there are opportunities to speed up something or
there's a new opportunity that presents itself because of funding we've identified we would
absolutely bring that to you to jump on it yeah that's great and and I also noted your
you know comment on possible pending legislation that might bring some funding that'd be great
too I'll just touch briefly on the the tiny house thing and give input you know that was
a very impressive trip you know what we saw and and what we saw was not a city program
but if there's any way that the city can kind of you know create create conditions for that
to happen like you know like let's say highlight the opportunity I don't know if there's an
incentive piece to that and put out an RFI to see you know there's the group that's come
before us are there any others who would want to take this on you know keep a key piece
is the land for it and I had a very constructive conversation with the founder when we're visiting
about how they do land we'll get into the all the details but but it involves recruiting
it involves recruiting high tax bracket individuals with creative financing now it's not something
the city could do but you know can can we attract the nonprofit partners that could
have the focus on doing that so anyway bottom line is I'd be supportive of an RFI with some
kind of options that might encourage a nonprofit to come and work on this and I think that's
probably the question today for you is just hear from you clearly is that the direction
you want us to move forward with I just don't know that we have that clarity yet from you
all because it would it would be something new that we'd have to do and take on that
additional time to do something like that I just want to make sure you argue with that
as we look at how we might prioritize different items if we were to take that on I mean just
to put a little more context around it the reason it's still like highly on the list
for me is it's it's clear to me that the 288 building is a massive step forward but won't
address the you know the entirety of the you know the homeless situation because we've got
people just won't go to shelter so you know that that that's why it's still very much
a front burner item to me counter member yes I wanted to start out by saying that I understand
that this city is kind of like the place to be it's a great place to live I have certainly
enjoyed myself since I've been here but I also understand that the city is one that
is turning over to be a rental community as I understand that there is a high number of
rentals here and I don't know what our thought processes are about creating homes that people
purchase that they can gain equity and be able to move up and beyond when it's time
for them to do so but we're inundated with rentals and we are attracting developers that
are putting in more and more rental you know spaces I don't know how much trouble I'll
be in with you know everybody in life but I'm just not I'm just not a big fan of rentals
I don't know where I'm going with this conversation but I think that we can do a better job in
making sure that we're attracting developers that want to sell homes to people individuals
and not other companies that then turn and then turn them into rentals I just happen
to be on Airbnb today because I'm going to invite some guests to come into the city and
I saw where there were 258 properties that are Airbnb you know in this city they could
be owned by someone I'm not saying that but the idea of just renting everything renting
everything and we have young folks that are graduating from the universities and didn't
ISD is saying that they want to you know hire you know young folks that are coming out of
these universities they want to you know hire their own students that have graduated from
these high schools and they want to train them and keep them home but the only thing
really that the city right now and the way that it's looking is that the only thing that
they're offering in them is an opportunity to rent something and then give them the opportunity
to start their little lives or people coming in and we're always talking about affordable
housing what does that mean and so you know with all of that being said I'm just concerned
about us not giving the younger generation an opportunity to grow families and have their
own thing mortgages or starting to become less than a rental unit so and then we got
to get landlords you know then we got to train and educate landlords and they're buying up
all of these places and we got to convince them to rent to people that can't afford $1,800
a month when they're working at one of these locations that I'm been allowed in to do that
so I really appreciate all of our effort here in the city to make sure that we're doing
the very best that we can do for it to be affordable well we keep it's just like we're
just going around around in circles when we are just allowing developers to come in here
rental developers it looks pretty but nobody owns anything and so it's a wealth gap issue
and we're not doing ourselves as a community yeah we got two big large universities here
and these kids come and go when they rent here and they're born talking about people
that are starting to live their lives and establish their lives here as its lifelong
citizens just want to put that out there like that I'm concerned about that I don't like
the prospect that I live in a rental city I would prefer to live in a city that is welcoming
us to start families who live here stay here question housing coordinator now tell me what
is this person what is their job going to be or what are they doing again they're going
to come in and really run these programs for us so if this is adopted that's the goal is
to really take these affordable housing and then start building out those tools or whatever
capacity they have as well as supporting our ongoing efforts around housing programs and
the city that are currently funded landlords again here we go everybody want to buy people
that can afford to purchase all of this stuff and then they turn around and rent it out
and then they're and then they you know have this attitude and they don't want to rent
it out to a low-income individual and then we've got to train them and we've got to
convince them and we've got to oversee and all of that I think we can we can really really
take advantage of that opportunity yeah I think that in the landlord maintenance grant
that's one of the mechanisms for that so in exchange for assistance in both improving
the housing quality of the rental unit it also means that they would we would have a
stick so to speak of now you have to rent it to an affordable client right so there's
an exchange for that assistance right so that's one of the ideas behind that program and then
when you're looking at the developer incentive packages as a pre-development cost that's
where we're starting to look at non-profit developers who can then get that assistance
to compete with a corporate developer and really look at how we can bring the cost down
for them compete in that market and then then build affordable units so I think those are
three strategies right there alone that are looking at home ownership as well and that's
to build affordable units that are rented well to build to own as well okay okay well
that's good to hear also I was going to ask a question about the land banking how we do
we have our in our mind of what areas are we going to be looking at mostly for land
banking in my head I'm thinking district what you know I know but it's got to be something
that's bigger than what I'm thinking yeah and if you as you get to dive into the toolkit
and the affordable housing assessment you'll see the recommendation on the market value
analysis to actually look at some of the higher performing markets so that B C and D even
e markets to look at those areas because they are higher opportunity areas higher performing
schools some of the other things that are and then not concentrating poverty in certain
areas of the town so both the the land banking will look at that from the mapping perspective
where the zoning fits right where the opportunity areas are and then look at how we can find
identify land in those areas they're going to be for public comment on that or is this
going to be something that yeah I think I think that will be a part of the process is
a part of the process yeah especially when we start talking about that in combination
with overlay districts and other things those will all be I think those will all require
public okay but I believe that that's what I have there but I do just want to you know
just publicly say that I'm just I'm just despondent about the fact that we're somehow we're moving
in this direction you know when renting renting renting kids stop anybody from purchasing
something and renting it but you know from the perspective of the city whatever we can
do to make sure that we encourage whomever developers nonprofit developers please come
in here because we got a whole list of people that are ready to begin their families and
their lives and they want some equity what they want to grow they want to have a bit
of wealth you know up under their belt they could sell it you know for whatever they you
want would like to sell it for but I want to be I want to be mindful of that I want
to tell the rest of the world that I would much prefer to sell and be a supportive of
a sale to an individual that is working very hard and to let them grow then just renting
out everything to everybody all right thank you thank you Councilman McGuire thank you
so I first of all I'm so thrilled to see the strategies in this draft toolkit that are
being proposed I'm very excited to see you know this sort of bold multi-pronged approach
to an issue that you know frankly a lot of cities cities most cities are seeing right
now and I also want to acknowledge that there are plenty of cities lots and lots of cities
where these proposed strategies just wouldn't have the political will behind them to make
them happen and so I want to to you know give staff props and and give my colleagues props
and and you know recognize that that it's unique that we have an electorate that is
open to to these kinds of ideas I think it shows how community minded we really are I'm
also I'm especially glad to see so much talk about zoning has it been part of the conversation
the the amount of landmass of the city that that is zoned single-family and whether that
is an obstacle so that's not a part of the conversation we've been having here but as
we start to look at the strategies we'll we'll begin to look at how the overlays can help
with those zoning the issues that might be barriers or might not be but looking at how
we incentivize what we want in the areas that we want in town so I think that that's the
positive part of the zoning conversation but we haven't had a big global conversation about
yeah of course that yeah we're still that may be happening in the comp plan though you'll
hear later yes exactly all right so I look forward to having those conversations I'm really
excited about accessory dwelling units I'm looking forward to you know making adjustments
to our development code that will promote that because I think those are just an example
of great land use and and can have a really positive impact I do want to make sure that
we're considering the role of impact fees and I bring this up because specifically because
I had a constituent contact me a couple months ago about he had built he didn't use this
terminology but he had built an accessory dwelling unit in his backyard and really was
charged some pretty significant wastewater water and wastewater impact fees and so I
think we need to kind of examine how we do impact fees with accessory dwelling units and
make sure we're not you know obviously we need to collect impact fees but we need to
make sure that we're designing that fee schedule in a way that incentivizes the kind of development
we want to see now I'm looking at or I was looking at gosh where to go a chart about
accessory dwelling units and promoting accessory dwelling units in the MVA areas A B C and
D and when I picture these these areas with strong housing markets I'm picturing a lot
of HOA neighborhoods how does the conversation around 80 use or zoning more generally but
especially 80 use kind of interact with HOA restrictions yeah I think that'll just have
to be an education discussion since we don't have control over some of those rules but
working with the HOA's when we start to look at where the incentive packages might be placed
whether it's through the overlays or through some other programmatic intervention with
80 use to allow incentives if someone's building them in those areas it'll just have to be
a conversation we have with those individual okay so basically like asking HOA's nicely
if they will change their rules I don't know if someone else wants to speak to HOA's a
little bit better than I can I'm very happy to have lots of backup today hi Tina Fergens
deputy director development services and the planning director you know when it comes to
homeowners associations they do have their set of rules that they put in place affiliated
with them and so it's possible that some HOA's may have restrictions on accessory dwelling
units I think it's a matter of just if we're looking at providing incentives within certain
areas of the city and then looking to see what neighborhoods are there if there are
any HOA's then reaching out to them and finding out if they have any restrictions on them
if they do have restrictions in place and then it may be a conversation with them about
whether or not they want to amend their covenants and conditions and restrictions to accommodate
and allow for that so but depending upon how their HOA is structured though it probably
requires a vote of the members of their community and so any time you make any sort of modifications
to their CCNR's so it might be a little bit easier said than done but it's something that
we would just you know continue to work with and see if there's interest you know some
there are some residential neighborhoods that do not have HOA's or maybe they have voluntary
HOA's in place there may be a little more flexibility in working with those particular
residential neighborhoods to be able to accommodate something like the accessory dwelling units
okay all right thank you yeah thank you so much oh so to councilmember Byrd's point
about homeownership I do appreciate her bringing that up because I definitely agree that that
I would love to see us promoting homeownership I think it's important to sort of acknowledge
that there are a lot of forces that are kind of pushing more and more residents toward
renting rather than owning you know obviously there's a lot of money to be made in purchasing
properties and then renting it out that's a real big pressure there's also the fact
that because rents are rising so rapidly people are struggling to save up enough money to
make a down payment on a home and I think that I mean first of all the plan does include
I think it was like 500 something you know estimated home units that would be available
for purchase and and that's noteworthy but also you know any any measures we can take
to control rising rents is is going to improve folks ability to save up a down payment so
I think that that's that's worth noting also I was really taken by one of the examples
the tiny home cottages at hickory crossing in Dallas right yeah that's it's a tiny home
village and it's operated by a nonprofit but the tiny homes are for sale and they cost
approximately 50,000 oh no not that one actually the Detroit model is a homeownership model
okay Dallas is model with city square is actually permanent supportive housing for people experiencing
homelessness so those aren't for sale that's what they cost to build because they're LEED
certified but the Detroit model is one of my favorites and it's a tiny home model where
people experiencing homelessness are placed in a home for a couple of years as they rebuild
their stability and then they have the option to purchase the home the and it's it's a housing
trust and land bank so the land underneath it is held in deed so that if they decide
to sell it in the future the home state the property stays affordable but they can also
then gain wealth by the sale of the home to move into a bigger property should they want
to later so it's a pretty cool model except one of my favorites thank you for that clarification
it definitely it definitely does use the word homeownership in the description sorry yeah
maybe a typo I'll make sure to correct that but yeah so I so my direction is to move forward
with implementing the toolkit go ahead and start with the process for the year one action
items I you know I would certainly vote to pass a budget amendment to fund all of that
when it comes to tiny homes you know obviously we have an organization in town that that
has a loose plan some details need to be nailed down but they have a plan it's quite different
from I for example the Detroit model of purchasing tiny homes it's a very different kind of program
that they're proposing but I would like to see the city working with them you know just
loosely I don't want to like tell you you have to do x y and z but of course I would
love to see the city providing them with land at a low cost assisting with you know hooking
up plumbing and electricity and things like that and and I'd like to have that conversation
so that we can move that forward but I also want to acknowledge of course that that's
not the only way of doing tiny homes and I would love to see us pursuing other models
as well a little bit more clarity like if you won't I think we're hearing some maybe
want to start with one group and then we're we're probably looking at a bigger picture
need for bringing in any potential partner might be able to run a program like that so
just making sure it's clear from you all what direction you want to do yeah so my direction
is like for us to pursue a partnership with the Denton Basic Services Center and also
if there are other nonprofits that have other models that might meet different needs for
different populations I would love to see us work with them also okay there's there's
another I think I think what Danny's saying and not to I know we have some other people
want to speak but Danny mentioned another approach in doing tiny homes I think the mayor
pro tem said an RFI and that is an option to look at a request for information for a
company to come in and literally they already have their land they decide to build those
homes that are more affordable for considered to be tiny homes or to the point you talked
about there's some things to think about but it is something that we'd have to work
on is six-month procurement process the council would have to be willing to do very very heavy
incentives for a developer to come in and do that zoning may be an issue and I did want
to mention that some of the things in the values of a small area plans or that you look
at the kinds of things you want in those areas which may be more housing ownership versus
rental so you begin to develop from a city perspective of council in those districts
what kind of housing you want to see in those areas and then the balance of housing stock
you cannot you can't have all rental you can't have all buying it has to be a balance of
some rental and some ownership and then progressive ownership a continuum of housing options for
people at the different levels of of of their economics what they have and that way they
can go from a tiny home to something else so you have those options for people but but
an RFI I just want to get direction from you to what extent do you want us to be involved
with the tiny home we're going to continue to partner with folks we're going to continue
to work with the nonprofits we need to find a viable nonprofit that can actually work
with us on a tiny home effort but but for you could go with the model of an RFI which
could then see if there are developers out there who have their own land that would be
willing to do something and it may be a split here's the housing they're going to build
that gives them the money here's the housing they're going to build it's more affordable
or tiny homes but it is going to require huge incentives and it couldn't require zoning
change and in that same conversation around in the an RFI process is just understanding
clearly from you what incentives you would be willing to offer if we were to post an
RFI that would attract someone to come in and do that so if you want to put land on
the table if you want to put zoning on the table if you want to put money on the table
just need that clarity from you all to say what can we put in an RFI to then allow people
to come in and tell us what they could do with the incentives you're able to offer or
what they already have or their own to bring to the table thank you for that clarification
I appreciate that I yeah I mean I think that if we're going to pursue an RFI I think that
we should be bold and offer as much as Cassie says we can yeah I mean I to the extent that
we have land that would be a good up a good candidate for this yes I think we should offer
that to the extent that we can offer tax incentives and and any any other incentives I'm totally
open to thank you Councilman bet thank you Mr. Mayor so that I had a bunch of questions
and obviously the discussion has brought up some additional ones one of the things that
I think Councilor Amateur pointed out is and this may be a Cassie and not a question or
ultimately a Sarah question but it does seem like considering the amounts of you know as
as we've encountered properties that we've owned or that we're interested in or I mean
you know Gary is like has watched for five years trying to get for parks or something
it seems like the amounts of monies that we're talking about when we do those whether we're
selling land whether we're keeping it whether Gary's buying it or whatever it seems like
that's far in excess of the kinds of monies that were were in this plan and and I don't
really see how I mean I guess we could use a hundred thousand to leverage but we're not
going to use a hundred thousand to buy no it's to hold options for the opportunity to
buy if we can develop it so it's not putting that full investment in land yet it's just
saying let's find some properties four or five hold the options for them with that funding
that we're asking for and then potentially buy them later and so that's just option that's
right okay okay I feel so much better than because you're not going to buy anything with
that kind of just getting that appraisal done and holding that option for five years and
then seeing if we can get a developer to come in and want to develop it but as part of that
that that makes me feel so much better and it's part of that I think we're seeing in
the comp plan and the mobility plan in this atria affordable housing plan everything seems
to be like you know we're doing it but we need to do these overlays of and you know
essentially the comp plan but now with more function more goals more strategic planning
laid into that comp plan and and we were just saying small area plans and and and it seems
to me that that one of the things you know that we need to do is if we're purchasing
if we're banking land you know that I mean we need an overlay we need a we need a grid
a GIS grid level layer that is like you know potential bankable land whether we're gonna
you know throw it at Gary or throw it at you or whatever you know that and even if it's
not for sale I mean we have the realtors and you know what's what was our eye on and and
what would like even strategically if if no one is even hinting of selling it what would
be good to have like in our network in our in our what is it Paul the preferred plan
of preservation that I mean what is what is that you know whether that's green or whether
that's structured you know what you know do we have that ready to pull the trigger if
if something suddenly comes available and that's what happens they're just you know
they suddenly come available so I would really encourage us to to be really broad and forward
thinking and get those layers out that that match your needs for affordable housing Gary's
needs for green space and parks and and and really have them ready to instantly pull the
trigger if we have to and then as part of that I mean I I these all these things you
know interleave it seems like we have some areas where like Courtney is working on preservation
and revitalization of certain areas and I think that's an opportunity to not crunch
them necessarily into apartment complexes but actually create these incentives to maintain
the character of a region and yet incentivize first-time homeowners to get into that with
you know incentives for repair incentives for purchase incentives for various kinds
of revitalization it occurs to me that we could kill a couple of birds with stones with
one stone or at least a few stones just to to you know match multiple strategic plans
of preservation of of certain types of our our character assets that you know you know
we can say to a first-time homeowner we know you lived nearby in an apartment complex we're
going to incentivize you to get into this home and you know fix it up through some sort
of in incentivization program and then maintain it and then you get the you know the the cost
recoveries like you were talking about and all that so I'm going to encourage you know
I think all this sort of mapping out these layers of property you know hits at the preservation
of the housing preservation of homeownership preservation of green space I mean I think
I think we really need to sort of get figure out where where we're going with the the infill
whether or not it's available for sale right now then my second question is that was it
that was a big statement but I guess my direction is do those layers my next question is right
now we're doing we're going to see criteria manuals later today we're doing code amendments
we're doing the comp plan adjustments I think it would be interesting and informative for
for your office and this is going to sound weird to not coordinate with Scott's office
and instead and I mean I don't I mean normally you do and it's a good thing because it provides
synergy but in this case I want to say what code amendments what pieces of code are barriers
to accomplishing your strategic plans and some of them are barriers for really good
reason you know you do this half the city burns down okay so we don't want to do that
all right but what is the what is the panoply what is the buffet of code amendments that
are in the way of yours and the reason I suggested this way and not pre figuring out what what
works between the two departments but but having the full list because sometimes there's
opportunity to not just tweak around the edges but to take big bold steps and you don't know
if you need to take a big bold step if if you're always tweaking around the edges and
and so what really are truly the barriers and some of them you'll come back with with
development services and they'll say now that we just never this is this is bad we can never
relax this one but others were like well maybe maybe we can relax this one in an overlay
district or blah blah blah blah you can come up with a strategic plan where under certain
conditions especially to incentivize affordability you can it goes back to my sort of revitalization
kind of idea feels like you were in our conversation yesterday we exact this exact conversation
yesterday about 80 years where I was saying these are barriers what can we do so I agree
with you so that's great feedback thank you what what barriers of in the code of any sort
are in your way and and next question is I mean I'm generally it looks like you know
this absolutely we want to go for the the toolkit yet and if we if we say yes right
now for direction we're not we're not really locking ourselves into any contracts we're
still sort of loose right okay right so we would go out well in this first year we'd
be looking at what we can do in-house and then if we needed to absolutely we've got
you giving us direction that we can we can go out for consultants if we need it for these
two things so that's that's number one but then as we build out we'll start to probably
see improvements in what we're asking for here but this is initially just giving an
overview of what we think are the maximum impacts to the general fund no other resources
available yet okay and then in terms of the the issue that the tiny homes yeah there's
probably no one on the dais that hasn't been approached by very various stakeholders that
are interested in that but I think that's that that says something and I think you're
sensing a desire to provide the buffet so whether that's you know emergency shelter
at one end and then pods for the people that that emergency shelters just don't work for
and then up from that is you know tiny tiny home villages and then up from that is you
know something like you know First United or maybe there's the new thing going in by
Ryan by grace like rain where it's more of a village concept and I think there I agree
that there's a spectrum I and I do think that we tend to be an emergency or or putting people
into you know coupons apartments hotels you know diversion and and and I I've had this
conversation with you many times I think the middle seems to to be thin so you know yes
the tiny homes yes the pods yes the grace like rain villages yes and so I want to fill
in that middle because that that allows you to transition from the emergency services
up to the bigger options that you're already using I mean what is it eighty eighty percent
of the people are already diverted so that's awesome but what about the twenty percent
you know what I mean so so my direction is yes the tiny homes thank you mr. right so
we have seven minutes allocated that's how I'm just giving you an update I've let everyone
have free rein and here we are so just a time stamp obviously we finished the first item
earlier so there's some wiggle room but going forward if we could please kind of be more
concise that'll help us get through the following work session items and closed session items
on time as as planned councilmember Davis thank you mayor I appreciate the way that
the toolkit is structured I appreciate the way that you've laid out a plan that builds
upon itself that we don't have to figure out all the answers about land banking today we've
got some time to build the kind of build the toolkit as we go and I like also the way that
you structured it where some things that we think we can bite off pretty quickly or at
least within that year's time frame are front-loaded and that gives us time to as you said earlier
build upon itself and then some of these strategies are going to work really well and some of
them aren't some of them we're going to hit some roadblocks or it doesn't work out the
way that we expect it or conditions change for whatever reason so I think you've done
a really good job you and your team have done a good job of structuring this in a way that
we can take it in manageable steps for instance I've got a lot of a lot of questions about
housing trusts and when at the appropriate time I'll ask those questions I'll have concerns
I'll have suggestions and I appreciate that that's kind of laid out for us in a way that
we can take in manageable pieces as policymakers and then also staff and I'm sure that helps
the grant writing process as well we've got a little bit of lead time on some of these
things a couple of general comments and I'll get down to tiny homes which the other piece
of direction you asked for some of what we've been talking about in the context of affordable
housing really also applies to all development generally when conditions are difficult for
developers generally they're also very difficult for developers who are recouping less on the
on the back end who are offering a more affordable product going after certain incentives like
we've had votes on here before so when we talk about things like impact fees and cost
of service I want to make sure we're aware of the fact that we're talking about the whole
development environment in the city and that we might have a few levers that we can pull
specifically for nonprofits or financing programs like you've talked about or grant writing
programs that really we're talking about improving the development environment generally in our
city and that doesn't just mean special purpose programs that means processes business processes
that it's easy to get a permit pulled that it's as long as you've got all the right boxes
checked it's easy to get through the process and get your project done if you meet all
the applicable criteria that we're not bouncing back and forth during reviews and things like
that and we've made some good strides in the city but it's something we have to remember
to keep working on keep moving forward. ADUs are a really good example of something where
you know we've been working really hard to get the ADU question right for a while now
I want to make sure we're careful not to think that ADUs I mean they're a piece of the puzzle
obviously but if we think about the kinds of folks the kinds of homeowners or property
owners that are likely to build ADUs we're not really thinking about a group of people
who are very likely to offer an especially affordable product in an ADU they all have
different reasons for offering them but they might offer them as an Airbnb and said they
probably will offer them at the highest rent they can to recover what they spent building
the ADU or for to help offset their mortgage or whatever it is so I'd caution the council
to think of ADUs as a super powerful tool in the toolkit we're still talking about needing
4,000 plus units and we're not going to get there mostly through ADUs we're mostly going
to get there through large scale apartment projects and that kind of brings me around
to the rental issue I also want to be really careful that we stay cognizant of kind of
the history of how Denton got to be the kind of market that we are a lot of it has to do
with the cost of a starter home quote unquote starter home I'm not sure such a thing exists
in Denton anymore an actual starter home like maybe my parents would have purchased or something
like that so some of those things are well beyond our control as policy makers their
market conditions are things that we're not levers we're not going to be able to pull
but a couple things to remember home ownership has always been not always but single family
homes as we've come to understand them and expect them in the last hundred years or so
home ownership is heavily heavily subsidized at the low end has been for a long time that's
kind of the regime of home ownership that we live under right now is to even be in a
starter home it's going to be a heavily subsidized program FHA style program that you're part
of or some of the other federal programs and the reason that they are federally subsidized
is because we're talking about very very large amounts of capital enormous amounts of capital
and the federal government is often the only organization that has access to that kind
of capital that kind of subsidy ability that kind of loan guarantee ability so I want to
be careful that we don't overestimate our own ability to control market conditions to
prevent Denton from being a quote unquote rental city we also have some pretty big swings
in homeowner expectations or renter expectations there are people now who in demographics we
would have expected to be looking for buying a home 20 30 years ago and for professional
personal reasons they're much more interested in renting that's why we're seeing these horizontal
multifamily developments come along that's a product that flies off the shelves people
some people are more interested in that than home ownership so I like that so far the year
one at least the plan and most of what I read in the in the toolkit as it's laid out really
kind of focuses us on the affordability piece and not so much the what is the whole rest
of the market look like we have to be aware of those market conditions but really focusing
on how can we develop some affordable products for the folks who need it and not necessarily
fix everything we don't like about the housing market and then finally get around getting
around to the tiny homes two things I want to really be careful not to do one is to not
duplicate efforts if there's a tiny home project that is intended to duplicate what we're doing
with the loop 288 property just to do it in a little bit different shape or with a little
bit different business model or something like that I'd be very wary of using taxpayer money
to duplicate efforts to do something that is what we're already doing just in a slightly
different form the other thing I'd want to be very very careful of is I guess I'll call
it procurement processes that if we're interested in doing something like tiny homes and I'm
not I'm not sure that tiny homes I already mentioned 80 years already but the Detroit
model of ownership you know of buy-in I think that segues or dovetails really nicely into
an affordable housing conversation the flip side of it like community first and those
kind of things I think that's dovetails more easily into the home and it hopes homelessness
prevention conversation and they're connected but they're not the same they're connected
but not the same and I would be very careful I think as a council that if we were interested
in doing something in the tiny home space that we start from a position of deciding
what it is we want to do not picking a nonprofit and doing what the nonprofit wants to do or
picking a set of people and doing what a set of people want to do but if we were going
to go forward with that and I don't think now is the time to do that I think we need
to focus on 288 get that project completed get it staffed and see what impact it makes
in the community but if we were going to go forward with that I think the correct process
would be something a lot more like an RFI than a pick your nonprofit and they're they're
the ones who do it all right so if you're this is the second round by my count so we're
going into that if you're going to speak please get in queue so we can wrap up I'll withhold
my comments till then customer amateur yeah I just wanted to provide that additional direction
you said you would like about tiny homes to add to what I said before after hearing everyone
else I agree with councilmember McGuire all all the tools that we have in our toolbox
I am in favor of to get not just tiny homes but any kind of affordable housing on the
ground but when it comes to tiny homes I think land is especially you know something that
we have that we already have as a city we have lands that is is lying there and not
being used and or actually I shouldn't say it's not being used it's it's being preserved
right for for public use and that's valuable preserving whatever you know trees are on
that land but but I think it's important that we identify and I think there's been some
work towards it and already but to say look okay we have these spaces available that could
theoretically be used for for for tiny homes and to you know and as far as I'm concerned
doesn't have to be through an RFI but as far as getting affordable housing on the ground
right away and getting in getting back in touch with this group the basic services center
you know that's already reached out to us and say look here's this this land you know
what what can y'all you know if you're really interested what can y'all do with this land
I know that that you know some of the work that we do as a city with affordable housing
has to do with this you know deciding kind of here's what we're gonna do here our goals
like the loop 288 project and then quite a bit of it has to do with seeing just who comes
to us you know who falls in our lap and what developers come knocking at our door and it's
not always kind of what what we've planned but I think in this case there's this this
local group that's been you know knocking at our door and because we know we have a
need I think it's important that we we provide that land and also find out I'm going to be
asking for a staff report and I'll send an email asking for it on what are the barriers
in zoning for tiny homes specifically and or what are some of them anyway because I
know that's a big issue also I'll finally say I concur with you know councilmember beck's
emphasis on the importance of identifying zoning barriers and not being afraid to you
know instead of asking oh is this okay with development just saying okay you know in an
ideal world for affordable housing we would get rid of this this this this or we would
change this this this this and then you know bringing that to council and then we can work
together because I know that the you know people in development services they care a
lot about affordable housing too and they see that that big picture too so but I think
so I think that'll be helpful to them as well. Mayor Fulton Melzer. I just want to chip in
a couple of items. One is if you flip the design list I would at least ask you to question
whether the ADU has to be no more than 50 percent of the size thing makes sense when
you're talking about small lots that have small primary houses on them. You might open
up more opportunities but I take councilmember Davis's point it's only one piece and it
may not be as good as we think. Another question just to take with you is when we look at incentives
this is a little into the weeds are we you know might we get more bang for the buck providing
incentives for all the existing housing development whether for purchase or for rental you know
instead of to set aside a percentage like 10 percent for affordable instead of trying
to get these you know you know only these big developments I think it would also address
the concern of everything being clustered in district one if you just looked at where
the developments happening so I'll stop there. Thank you. Okay and for my portion I think
these two go hand in hand when you're talking about the position and you can correct me
if I'm wrong I support adding the position but I would like to see that position kind
of do a comprehensive evaluation and even furthermore when we have deals come before
us kind of give their input if I'm understanding it right you're trying to because they're
coordinating how what's available what we need and then in theory what could be proposed
if someone comes for a housing credit then getting into the planning side of things no
secret we have a lot of tree lots and so how we navigate that and what we how we incentivize
how we manage those tricky in field developments that sort of thing so and you can correct
me after the fact if I'm understanding it wrong but I envision that position to help
us we've always kind of had these kind of evaluating how many you know how many percent
what percentage of the developments going to be at this level with that level so I see
just kind of a position to give a holistic approach to that decision matrix and so if
I understand that right I mean I think we're working towards that so giving you feedback
over affordable housing letters of support or no objection request to providing you enough
detail around how it meets our affordable housing goals that will be in addition probably
to what we're doing in that process a little bit later down the road but the other things
probably need to stay in the development review process and not in this funding mechanism
process so I'll just put that back out to you you have you'll still have that opportunity
the housing tax credit program is only helping them achieve financing for a potential development
they still have to get that development through the review process which you'll have all those
opportunities to talk about trees impact fees or any of those other things that you're concerned
with around the development certainly yeah and I think we're on the same page is just
that input to how it what it what boxes it checks based on their that's their insight
and then guides that decision okay and then yeah I can't say enough about the the success
we've had with the hotel what have we we've we've permanently house what almost 70 people
yes yeah yeah yeah so I think that with the with the shelter coming online I think that's
a lot to kind of read analyze and then see how we move forward then I'll say I said this
a number of times I think for the component with habitat for humanity I think we need
to that's why you talk about supplementing land that I'm all for that because we need
to continue to lower that 98 percent number and diversify across and especially when you're
talking about they already have land bank for 32 additional houses in the same area
we have 98 percent right so I think to to begin to incentivize to offset land price
and that's where you have homeownership right you're talking about homeownership that that
gives that outside of the current geographic area and and probably strikes up some conversations
that we need to have as a community anyway and so I support anything we can do around
that the substance of because here's this this is my next point it's no secret you can
ask any developer on in Denton in most nonprofits and they'll tell you the most the cheapest
land in Denton that's the most strategically located at Southeast Denton that makes Southeast
Denton the target and it also goes to the narrative oh well we can get the land cheaper
and then ergo produce a product cheaper keep rents lower all these things are true but
we need to invest to disperse that to other areas and then kind of not just take the path
of least resistance so I'm gonna hopefully you're catching that like with the overlays
that that's the goal to further incentivize that in other areas of town yes again to bring
the cost down in some other ways so that they're developing across the city and not just in
one area where it's cheap right no no question and staff touched talked on and I don't know
that you have to come back up just I think I'm right in the core of city in the core
of the city where we're gonna really try to get people plugged in and all the services
are I don't think we have I mean I don't know there's one HOA I mean Denton's kind of unique
and that we've had older established neighborhoods and then grown on the edges but I think at
the core of city HOA isn't a problem at all I mean I'm not sure we do yeah yeah and I
think across the entire city I bet you we have they agree yeah yeah yeah I think across
the city we have maybe 10% or something I mean it's just not an issue we have I mean
we're established city versus a Frisco that's a new city those sort of things so I'm comfortable
with that I don't know if that's gonna be a real impediment and then I think for me
the other thing is yeah I support the RFI that's just I mean that's the way we do unless
it's a single source option I think that's just the prudent thing to do and I and I will
say this and I'll have to get you the name and I'm sure you may have seen it already
I've seen apartment complexes now developers pardon me that will develop apartment complex
and single-family homes and they'll add equity if you're in the apartment for a year they
take an equity if you buy a home from them so there's there's different programs that
we can we can take advantage of or different developers we can partner with that have these
different products and unique ways to address what if there's someone that somehow needs
help saving for down payment that sort of thing so I think we're saying that comment
to you because in the incentive package I think that's where you're looking at you know
creating some of those incentives where developers might do some creative things where we can't
require it because of state law we can incentivize to encourage more affordable as a percentage
of development excellent okay well thank you very much great presentation good insight thank
you that concludes item B well I'll just if you if you need to take a break by all means
do but we're gonna press on so item C is ID 2 1 2 4 6 6 receive report hold discussion
give staff direction regarding updates to the city criteria manuals
before Scott gets started I just want to remind council that this has been in their Friday
packets at least four times previous to today's presentation in hopes that you've had an opportunity
to review it and and think about it thank you thank you and staff sent out answers to
all the questions they received either over the weekend or today and so you have those
in your emails so that should guide some decisions great time thank you thank you mayor council
delighted to be here this presentation may not be quite as aspirational as the previous
but we'll do our best because it's necessary as Sarah had indicated we have all this information
was in your your backup and this is just a basic agenda and really is a high level overview
of of what we're talking about with the criteria manuals just want to be able to speak to what
they are how they fit and ultimately stand for questions so between myself and a variety
of other director representatives from the subject matter area experts across the departments
we'll go through this the process for public outreach has been quite significant this project
has been underway since truly in twenty nineteen and before as we made updates to the twenty
nineteen then development code this was a major piece within that was updating the criteria
manuals we had significant public outreach through our stakeholder groups ultimately
through all of our city representatives our departments those that actually that the boots
on the ground those working in the in the streets the ditches parks landfill truly over
the past two years as well as reaching out to our external stakeholders to include the
Denton County developer alliance for some of you may recall they were very vocal and
engaged group that that helped us to kind of look at how it is that we're doing the
things that we're doing the slide before you really just kind of speaks to the most recent
events that have occurred you know taking it through a variety of developer town halls
are P. U. B. and etcetera. I'm a little bit more about the background on what the manuals
are the criteria manuals are an annual document so we're looking to track the changes that
we have throughout the year as we use these as the products materials change methods of
construction all the while will track those changes and then be bringing these forward
to council each and every year. The goal really will be that will begin a public comment period
in September will bring it before council in roughly November for an adoption of January
first is an effective date. As I indicated earlier this has been ongoing for years. And
you can see on this slide that some of our criteria manuals go back as far as two thousand
and nine. This is a significant product project it's been challenged by any number of things
a great deal of staff changeover- COVID updates to our code let's legislative changes and
certainly don't want you to think that staff hasn't been diligently working on it. These
are the governing documents for the city ultimately have the the city's municipal code. Part B
the municipal code is the development code. It is the policy and the procedural content
for which all of the guidance is given for the development community. So truly that the
policy piece of that is the direction that set by council. The direction that that were
asked to go and we put that into print and ultimately bring that before this body. We
identify all of the procedures and the steps within that and then beyond that then we get
into our criteria manuals which we're talking about today. The criteria manuals are are
truly that it's the criteria of how it is that we're asking for items to be designed
and the technical components for construction. And then below that would be then the specifications
and standard details which we have brought before this this council earlier this year.
This is just the same in in the graphic form. So really it'll show you that the development
code really talks about our zoning and subdivision regulations. The criteria manuals give us
those design requirements. The construction specifications give you those standards of
how it is that you're to build it. And then we have standard details to aid in what it
is that we're constructing. I'm going to turn this over now to our solid waste department
and we're going to get into just some of what the most significant changes are. Keeping
in mind that that most of these standards have been in place, but as items change, our
means and methods change, this is why it is that we need to do the updates and this will
be very frequent. I might also add there were some comments that have been made of late.
We've had this material out on our website truly for a couple of years. We've most recently
suspended the comment period the first of the month. And we've consolidated that those
comments down. Not everything is in there for some. Some would like to see more than
what there is, but ultimately the update or the importance of getting these publications
up to date is so that we continue to get consistency between our current development code as we
update the development code, our construction specifications, and then as we transition
through that, we can update these manuals at any time that we need to, but certainly
to have a consistent set of documents across the city that are relative to the date and
time that we're working. And then again, we will be bringing these back. We're already
tracking changes for the next series of documents. So I appreciate your time and I'll be back
to stand for questions. Good afternoon, Mayor, Members of Council. My name is Brian George,
Field Services Supervisor for the Solid Waste Department. As mentioned earlier, the Solid
Waste Criteria Manual has not been updated since April of 2009. So I'm here to present
a couple of proposed changes, specifically commercial container enclosure details and
the alleyway collection details. Due to design improvements to solid waste collection vehicles,
for example, if you see the picture presented, the trucks are getting wider. We have hoses
hanging off the side of the trucks, guards protecting the hoses. As you can see in the
next slide, there's not a lot of room. So we know that the new container enclosures
must meet a specific design spec. So therefore, the single enclosures must change from 12-foot
wide to 13-foot wide. Dual enclosures must change from 24-foot wide to 26-foot wide and
those are inside dimensions. And compactor enclosures should change from 15-foot to 16-foot
wide. In addition to the enclosure details, we are seeking approval to add details for
servicing residential containers to enhance the accessibility and to ensure proper turning
radius in alleyways. For the solid waste collection vehicles, as they are performing weekly collection
services. Also, alleyways must be designed and built specifically to support the weight
of the collection vehicles as well on these weekly services. So on that note, that does
conclude my portion of the presentation. Any questions?
Any questions for this segment? Okay, thank you.
Good afternoon Mayor and Councilman Becky DeVine. Happy to be here today to talk to
you about the storm water and transportation criteria manual. I want to thank Scott for
doing an excellent job of really talking about why this is so important. As an engineer nerd,
I thrive on this information and know how important it is for those folks that are designing
projects for the City of Denton. To highlight a couple of items that we've included, I did
a combination slide so you could kind of really understand the way that we approach the storm
water and transportation. These are some common items. We had multiple definitions in there
that were either non-essential anymore or some that needed to be clarified. We also
updated some standard specifications in coordination with that criteria manual, also those standard
details. And then we looked at some sections that need to be moved to the Denton Development
Code. I want you to know that when you reviewed the red line document, if you saw something
highlighted in yellow, currently, that is actually an area of which we look to move
to the code when we work next year to make those code updates. I did not remove them
from the criteria manual at this time because I felt like it was important to leave them
in there because I need to have them in some area to reference until we make that official
move into the code. So knowing that that's something that will happen next year, we've
just been working to identify those opportunities. To talk specifically about the storm water
criteria manual, there's a table 3.3 that describes streets and right-of-way design
frequencies. It really didn't have a lot of benefit in the document, so that was removed.
We changed from matching storm water drain pipe soffits to pipe inverts so that we could
facilitate the CCTV inspection. You may not be aware of, but now all infrastructure that
is installed is CCTV to make sure that it was constructed properly, so this will help
and aid in that effort. We clarified that safety end treatments are required for pipe
culverts. We did do some clarification of channelization rules for those ESA and non-ESA
drainage areas that are less than one square mile. We changed driveway culverts to be reinforced
concrete pipe. We also looked at the private detention facilities, adding those to the
public works inspection team inspection so that they can also be evaluated, inspected
when they're being constructed, and then of course they'll be subject to those fees.
We did do some updates to make sure that engineering plans shall be required to show all trees
in the floodplain in accordance with the section of the development code, section 7.7.4.8.
We removed incorrect references to detention facility easement language, and then we clarified
the extent of the required detention facility easements. There are quite a few updates that
have been made during this section. I also will mention, as Scott mentioned, we actually
have a tracking mechanism through an actual smart sheet where our team throughout the
year, as different comments are received, we have that information out there where different
folks can log comments for standard details, construction specifications, or any criteria
manuals. So there are several items within the criteria manuals. As Scott mentioned,
even some of the recent comments we received even today that will be added to that document
so that we don't lose track of the comments we've received and have that opportunity
to update them in the following year. As far as the transportation criteria manual,
this is probably one of the ones that I feel like is most important, and I can thank Nathan
George for his efforts with this. He helped us update the geometric street standards to
incorporate those bike and ped components. Actually, we added a column to that table
that shows the bike accommodations required. So Mike Linder and Nathan George were heavily
on that. We did refer to the city's mobility plan, and the goal with that is to really
better communicate that overall complete streets goal. You'll see with the mobility plan updates,
we're really focusing in on, I know sometimes we focus in on the fact that it's just a thoroughfare
plan, but essentially that really does have three maps as a part of that plan, the bicycle,
the pedestrian, and the thoroughfare. We unified the naming conventions for roadway
classifications between the criteria manual and standard details. What we found with our
review is we had roadway classifications that were called different things in different
areas, so we wanted everything to be called the same. We did update some turning lane
standards, some on-strength parking, some geometric standards, and some diagrams and
amenities as applicable. And then I think it's really important. I'm all about a single
source of truth, and Mike really worked to eliminate redundant information and move data
to that single document. One example you can see here listed is ride quality. It's now
located in the construction specifications. Max box links is something that's already
found in the DDC. So when we have something shown in more than one location, that's when
we make an edit to one and obviously maybe forget that it's located in another document,
and then that's where we have inconsistencies of which the hierarchy, Scott showed you earlier,
that would be the hierarchy we would go through for a review process. So another one is the
guidelines for perimeter street improvements that are now found in the DDC. So those are
really kind of the high-level updates to stormwater and transportation. I know we did our best
to try to answer and address all the questions that were received. I do want to mention we
received quite a few comments in regards to vision zero and speed studies, complete streets.
At this time, we did the best that we could over the last five months of having Nathan.
I know Nathan's in the audience. There he is. Nathan on board with addressing the bicycle
components and pedestrian components that we could. I will tell you because the citywide
speed study is not complete. We don't have a vision zero complete action plan moving
forward. At this time, it's really something we're working on with the newly formed transportation
planning group. I felt like it would be best to have all that data collected before we
work to add additional information into the criteria manual. So I anticipate and I highly
expect making those updates during the next year. So look forward to having additional
feedback on that. I do want to thank two folks that are in the audience today. Jim Wilder
and Mike Linder. They're probably at the very top. You've maybe never seen them before.
They're both engineers that we have on staff that have done an excellent job with this
review along with Nathan George. So appreciate all of the feedback that we've received. And
we're happy to answer any questions that you might have.
Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for addressing when vision zero would be appropriate to stream
into the discussion. It's just one small item that I realized I didn't really understand.
The requirement to inventory trees that are in the floodplain. What's the point of that?
Ordinarily, your concern is making sure your inventory of the trees in the developable
part to make sure that there's the appropriate amount of preservation. But you can't build
in the floodplain anyway. What's the point of that bullet?
Those are items that we actually worked with our watershed protection team on. And that's
something that as far as when we evaluate an overall project, we really want to make
sure we have that true inventory of trees. It's a part of the tree code update that was
made. So we just really took that opportunity to make sure that we're consistent with that.
So it's really providing that consistency. Okay. Just so we have a fuller inventory of
our canopy in general. Okay. Thank you. It also can obviously, as you know, trees can
impact the overall drainage way. So we want to know where all of those features are located
as they can impact the overall design. Great. Thank you.
No problem, sir. Councilman Byrd has a question for you.
I just want to say that I've been recognizing that we've been putting up some new red light,
you know, at the corners, the new signs, you know, that are coming up. I'm sure we have
some plans in all of that for when all of this is going to take place in certain areas
of the city. So I'm going to have to make an assumption
that you're assuming you're talking about actual street lights or are you talking about
the red light on top of the stop sign? Because we have installed some of those newly too.
Both. Okay. Yeah. I'm noticing that that's coming along,
but I'm not real sure what part of the city it's taking place in and how we're doing on
that. So we actually work with the operations division
of the streets and traffic operations departments to look at signals that need to be installed.
Signals are either done through an HSIP program, which is a Highway Safety Improvement Program
from TxDOT, or we evaluate certain intersections that warrant a signal is what it's called.
And so we have several of those that are happening. And one of the ones, obviously, that's happening
very close to here is the one downtown. And then as far as the parkway, we noticed through
traffic patterns that individuals who were coming southbound on Elm Street, to get my
roadways correct, southbound on Elm Street, we're not necessarily noticing the stop signs
that we recently installed at Parkway and Elm. So that red light is just to provide
additional notification. There's a section in the transportation criteria manual that
has signs and markings and signals. And so in many cases, we refer back to TxDOT requirements
in those areas. And so those are some of the improvements that we're making.
I also want to ask if the ADA criteria is located within -- in the mobility area?
There is a small -- Nathan, I don't know if you want to speak to that. There is a small
portion currently that is in the criteria manual that is specific to ADA, kind of talking
about PROAG. And I can have Nathan expand. That's definitely an area where we feel like
there are going to be additional improvements made over the next year as Nathan's on board.
But go ahead and explain. Okay. I would have to pull out the manual to
refer to it to know exactly how much detail we have. But I can tell you from an ADA perspective,
we're referring to federal standards. So PROAG, the total right-of-way access guidelines,
and then the state requires that we comply with those Texas accessibility standards.
So all of that guidance is both federally and by state is codified, and then we make
sure that our projects are in compliance with those standards. So it's less that we're more
so referring to those federal and state guidelines than we are providing any additional clarification
to how those would apply to our projects or to our roadways.
Are we still in the process of putting a package together or are we actually boots on the ground
making some things happen right now? So we briefed on the sidewalk work plan to
the Committee on Persons with Disabilities and to Mobility Committee in November, and
we have that on the agenda for the January 4th to provide a work session report to council
on our sidewalk work plan. So you'll be hearing about that next month, early next year.
Thank you. And Councilmember Byrd, you'll be getting some
information from our Parks and Recreation staff in regards to the ADA facility assessment
that has been completed. It talks about accessibility in and around our parks, those sidewalks around
our parks and facilities. Okay.
And we just referred back that there is a direct reference to the Texas accessibility
standards in the criteria manual, so that's where we, by reference, refer to those standards
that refer back up to the federal government. You know, ever since you've come on board,
as I'm driving around, this is my assistant, please allow me to put this out here, as I'm
driving around the city now, I'm way more conscious of the bike paths, where some streets,
it looks like we at some point, we were, you know, had this grandiose idea of bike paths,
and I always come back to you in our first meeting in your governance of that particular
program. So I'm really excited about seeing what you're going to provide for us.
Thank you. I look forward to sharing more details as I keep coming up to this podium.
Thanks. Councilmember Davis.
Thank you, Mayor. Isn't this the appropriate time for a question regarding one of the other
criteria manuals that other presenters presented and then stepped away from the podium and
said they could stand for questions after? Sure.
I just want to make sure, if somebody else has questions for Becky, I'm happy to wait.
No, I don't have anything else in queue. Okay. My question is on water/wastewater.
And I have one substantive question, but another that is a constituent has...
So he's presenting that now, but you can go ahead and so that they can touch on it.
No, go ahead and... Good afternoon. I'm Stephen Moore, Senior Engineer
for Water and Wastewater, and we'll be discussing the water and wastewater criteria manuals
updates today. The primary focus of our efforts, which started roughly two years ago, were
to match the current practices, clarify the language, and as Becky was mentioning, put
all the information in one place. A lot of our information was already or was duplicated
in some other documents, some other manuals, so we spent a lot of time removing what we
have so that everything matches. We did do some revisions into what we've got, existing
water main replacement, put some more details in. A lot of those details were actually put
into our standards and specifications, so we kept it at the higher level here. Estimated
wastewater flows, we updated the language because the previous language was relatively
inexact, so we wanted to put that more specific to make it easier for the developers to determine.
Separation between water and wastewater, we actually put in the language that follows
the state laws from TCEQ, so we wanted to make sure that was clarified. Highway crossings,
we have a lot of projects that cross text out roads, and we never actually told them
that, "Hey, this is a text out road." You actually have to get permitted through them.
So again, some clarifying language and abandonment of sewer mains. This was something that is
actually done. We know it's done. The developer knows it's been done. It needs to be done.
We actually put the language in there up front telling them that these things need to be
done. The biggest thing we did was removed from our document preliminary design rights
away and easements, all city processes that we were talking about, and there was no reason
to put it in our documents. We pulled it out. It's in the city documents. We don't specify
anything about that. We've worked on meters. There was a lot of inexact, unclear language
prior, so we've clarified a lot of that language, added some very specific language about underground
utility crossings. There's some very state-specific TCEQ requirements for crossing sewer pipes.
That's in there now. Fence and wall crossings were never really addressed. We don't like
them, and we want to put it in there to make sure the language is clear. Pressure regulators
are things that we had added in the past on an exception or variance basis, and we tried
to put some specific standard language in there to make the rules very clear on what
we were doing. Most of the highly technical questions were moved into the standards specifications.
It's been long done, and we've tried to focus on the other portions in this document, and
that's really all I was going to talk about here. You do have some specific questions.
I do. May I? Yes, sir. I'll start by saying I think there are a few, and you guys may
be aware of these, but somebody brought to my attention a few discrepancies between the
red line and the clean copy. Yes, sir. The ones that I'm seeing are typographical, like
a letter F instead of a letter A, and if the clean copy is what we're going to adopt as
Exhibit A to the ordinance, I want to make sure we don't have any typos in there, so
we may need by tonight when we vote, we might need an updated clean copy that's got some
of those typos. I think you already have what this person brought to my attention, but I
can certainly forage you what I've got if that's helpful. Absolutely. The other thing,
the more substantive issue is it's not in the red line, but it is in the clean version.
On page 11, the requirement for separate meters for multi-unit buildings, and I'd like to
know a little bit about from simply a planning or an engineering criteria standpoint, not
a what's best for the landlord, what's best for the tenant, but just from a city planning
and criteria standpoint, why would we be desirous of such a condition that a duplex has to have
two meters, a quadplex has to have four meters, etc.? This came about because we had small
owners subdividing their houses without subdividing the utilities, and our staff were involved
in arguments from the one person who was being charged for the entire house and saying, "Hey,
I shouldn't be paying for all of this," and we put this in there to get our staff out
of that debate. The owner should be welcome to charge all four combined and pay the one
bill, but we got involved in those, and that's why this provision was put in place. For smaller,
for duplexes, quadplexes, etc., you're charged by the residents, and each resident may have
multiple bedrooms. When you get to an apartment complex, you're charged by the bedrooms. I'm
not going to say it's apples to oranges. It's not an exact comparison. Your duplex, which
we're acquiring two meters for, could have up to six bedrooms, whereas if you were to
build an apartment which starts at eight bedrooms, you would be charged on a different basis.
It doesn't look ... It's not exactly the same. It is not, but that's in part recognition
because building an apartment complex is much more complex and costly than building, say,
a house-style structure and subdividing it into multiple units. Have I ...
That's helpful. You're getting to part of what my concern is. We've identified already
on council, and I think as a community too, but specifically on council, that we would
like to see more development at that scale, at the home scale. That's the kind of development
that we might hope for in the city because it's lower barrier to entry, like you said.
It costs a lot less to build a stick-built frame house-style building that might have
four units in it, but is basically a big house, than it does to build an apartment complex.
But the cost between one meter and two meters and three ... When you get to a smaller scale
project, a $10,000 or $20,000 cost item can make a difference. I'd like to see a development
environment where a developer has incentives to build a duplex in the appropriate place
or a quadplex in the appropriate place, as opposed to a $10,000 disincentive or a $30,000
disincentive. I'm going to get the math a little off because it's all dependent on the
fees, but to me personally, I can't speak for anybody else on the council, but to me,
the billing issue of how's the bill getting divided up in the house, if the developer
wants to have it easy, they install four meters and they pay the price for that. If they want
to do all bills included, which may be better for some folks, you have one meter and the
landlord puts it into the rent. I see what you mean about getting involved in billing
disputes, but I think it's pretty easy once the thing is built and the billing is going
on to say, "This is the name on the bill. We are not involved in your billing dispute.
That's between you and your roommate and your landlord. Somebody just needs to pay the bill."
Does that make sense?
Yes, sir. I understand.
Okay. Any other questions? Seeing none. Scott, do you want to give a thought as far as that
direction? I see both sides of it. Help me understand this. Fair question by Councilmember
Davis, what is the cost when we're talking meters?
You have a meter and you have a tap and then for us to install the meter and tap. It gets
to be significant. Our code just speaks to the fact that for residential properties,
it's a single meter in that single tap. Ultimately, they can sub-meter on their own at their
own cost.
A new water and wastewater meter will typically cost you $7,000 to $8,000, add in the tap
fee. You might be approaching $9,000 or $10,000.
Okay. Got it. Okay. Got it. Any other questions? Seeing none. Okay.
Thank you very much.
All right. That concludes item C, takes us to item D, which is ID 212569, receive a forehold
discussion, give staff direction, comprehensive plan components, and receive an update related
to Denton 2040 comprehensive plan.
Excuse me, just a moment. I just noticed it wasn't there.
Mayor, while they're pulling up the presentation, I do want to just say a big thank you to the
staff who they've been working on this for quite some time, especially when you can tell
that we haven't done an update since 2009 when it came to solid waste issues. So I think
the real point here is while we have the information we're sharing with you now, this will be an
ongoing effort to take the information to look at the best practices and make sure that
we're staying updated.
Excellent. Thank you. Agreed. A lot of hard work.
Mayor, Tina Fergens, deputy director of development services and planning director. My apologies
for the slight technical delay there on my part. I'm happy to be able to present to city
council our comprehensive plan update this afternoon. The purpose of my presentation
is going to be twofold. So the first part of the presentation is primarily going to
focus on the comprehensive plan, the elements or components that make up the comprehensive
plan. Many times when folks think of the comprehensive plan, they think of the future land use map.
That's the first thing that comes to mind and they don't, whoops. My apologies. I thought
we got that accomplished. Okay. My apologies for that. So I thought we had it. Anyway,
so as I was mentioning, the purpose of this presentation is twofold. The first part is
going to address just the comprehensive plan, the components associated with it. Many times
when folks think of the comprehensive plan, they think it's the future land use map and
that's it. When the future land use map, while it's a very important component of the comprehensive
plan, it is just only one key component of the comprehensive plan. And you'll see here
shortly that there are 10 elements that help make up the plan and how the future land use
map fits within that. The other aspect associated with my presentation is then going to address
the next steps as it relates to our Denton 2040 comprehensive plan update. And I'll address
the process that we've been through as of to date and then also be able to share with
you many of the next steps. And I'll tell you, my team has been diligently working on
the 2040 comprehensive plan update in tandem with our consultant matrix and leading that
effort has been Ron Mengita and he's been very instrumental in that process. So we thank
him for all of his hard work on that as well as the rest of the team that's been involved
behind the scenes. Sometimes you don't see all of the work that they're doing, but as
it relates to this, they've been extremely involved in that aspect. So let's talk about
the comprehensive plan. So before I dive into all the components of it, I just thought I
touched base on just a reminder or a refresher what the purpose of the comprehensive plan
is. As you know, you've probably heard us many times stand before you and say it's the
overarching policy document that provides direction for us as elected officials as well
as for us as staff, but also other boards that are appointed on how we address future
land use development and investment within our community. It provides recommendations
and goals and policies and action items that really help us be able to address the questions
on what do we want to be in the future? I don't want to say necessarily what do we want
to be when we grow up. We're a very mature city and we continue to grow as you're well
aware of, but it helps us be able to address the questions of, you know, do we want to
be a financially solvent city? Do we want to provide a variety of housing options as
we were just discussing earlier this afternoon? Do we want to allow for a variety of different
land uses? Do we want to control some of the growth on the periphery? Are we interested
in allowing for infill development? Do we want certain densities of development in certain
areas? So all of the components of the comprehensive plan help us address a variety of questions
about what we want the future of our community to be. The plan also addresses challenges
and opportunities that are presented themselves within our community, both present day and
what we anticipate as we move forward. But it also sets the framework for how do we want
to manage our growth? If we don't plan our cities, then the developers are going to plan
our cities for us. And I've shared that idea with many other councils as well because it's
very important, just as you all have directed us to, to update our plan to keep it current
and relevant and continue to refine it every five to 10 years. So that's a very important
element that we do. Because like I said, if we do not keep our plan current and if it's
not reflective of the conditions that are happening within our community, then we may
not be on the path that we're desiring for our community. The other thing that the comprehensive
plan focuses on, again, is where do we make reinvestment within our community? The comprehensive
plan can be the basis that provides the policy direction for improvements such as in our
capital improvements program. And then lastly, we're also interested about the quality of
life for our residents within our community. So the plan helps lay out the criteria for
moving forward as it, as it relates to what we desire for that. So any good plan always
has a vision statement. What do we want to be? What are we trying to achieve? In this
case, comprehensive planning is no different. You know, this says community vision statement,
many comprehensive plans that I've seen, this statement is actually a series of statements,
if you will. It's more of a paragraph that lays out what our vision is going to be for
the future. But it helps us again, be able to address those questions that I mentioned
to you previously about how do we want to accommodate the growth and reinvestment in
the maturing of our city over time? So in our case, and I'm going to use our 2030 plan
as some of the examples throughout this presentation, as I know you're familiar with that. But in
the case of our 2030 plan, we have our community vision statement, but then it really helps
organize and provides the focus for our goals, policies and action statements that we have
employed throughout the document. And in the case of our vision statement, it really provides
four strategic directions on which we've organized all those goals, policies and action items
around. So the first one being the character of Denton, second being our people, institutions
and government. The third one being the strength of our economy. And then lastly, the sound
growth form and function. So all these concepts or directions, if you will, help then set
the stage in the subsequent elements as we've developed the goals, policies and actions.
The key thing that's important is all those goals, policies and action statements that
are provided for in the comprehensive plan, they should direct back to the vision and
ultimately implement the community's vision over time. And here's just an example that
helps illustrate where on the left hand column, you'll see it'll provide a goal. In this
case, the goal sets the general direction, the idea for the future. And then below that
is an example of one of the goals that's in the plan. So for example, grow with character,
promote development, which enhances our community character and functionality. So that goal
then sets the policy direction, which is to revise our development regulations and development
review process to facilitate and support desired forms of development, which then translates
subsequently into an action item of adopt citywide design and development standards
and guidelines specific to individual land uses and thoroughfares to help improve the
development quality of the community. So you can see sort of the linear progression associated
with that. And I'll get a little more into this when I talk about the implementation
element of the comprehensive plan. So our comprehensive plan today is comprised of 10
elements and elements is just another word for chapters. Sometimes I've had that conversation
with folks, they just, you know, they, they're not for certain what to, what to mean by that.
But in the case of our comprehensive plan, as I mentioned, we've got 10 chapters, if
you will, there are elements. They all are specifically focused on a topic. So the, we've
got five of them shown here. The first one being the plan framework, again, laying out
what we anticipate our current or it lays out our current conditions, anticipated conditions,
talks about any processes that were employed related to the, the development of the comprehensive
plan, but includes that community vision statement. It also addresses land use. This is where
you'll find that future land use map that we typically is, is our go-to right for our
first evaluation of zoning cases. One of our elements addresses fiscal and economic vitality,
the economic strength of the community, whether or not we have an interest in being fiscally
responsible and then opportunities for revenue enhancement. Element four addresses the community
character and urban design. This is where we start to get into those conversations about
placemaking or as we have areas redevelop or reinvest, what, what is the, the environment
that we're trying to create? Our placemaking environment for downtown around the square
may be different compared to elsewhere within the communities because of the context of
the development and the form of the development that exists there today. Parks conservation
environment. This element really works hand in hand with our parks master plan. And we've
been coordinating very closely with Gary Packett and his team because right now they're obviously
undergoing the parks master plan update. So it's we've made a very concerted effort to
make sure that our consultant matrix, as well as our team is working closely with Gary and
his team as we work on the parks master plan update. Uh, the other remaining five that
we have, uh, number six on the list mobility. Um, just like we're working with Gary and
his team, we're working very diligently with Becky and her team, uh, with respect to the
mobility plan update. That's something that's been underway for awhile. Uh, we paused the
mobility plan to allow for the conference of plan to catch up. Um, and we are working
hand in hand and making sure that our land use assumptions, um, are represented accurately
with respect to the mobility plan and roadway networks that are being shown on that particular
plan so that the two documents are working with each other instead of competing against
each other. But the mobility plan is going to make references over to the or excuse me,
the mobility element of the conference of plan will make references to the mobility
master plan document, but also any goals, policies, objectives that we have or action
items that we have within the conference of plan would presumably further help achieve
any of the goals and action items that we have in the mobility plan, um, housing and
neighborhoods. Uh, the conference of plan also addresses that again, working with Danny
and her team, especially with their affordable housing initiative and any other housing goals
that they may have for the community. So again, that we have, um, goals and policies and action
items that are aligned and not necessarily competing with each other. Uh, we also have
an element on community health, safety and services, as well as infrastructure and utilities.
Uh, we've had quite a bit of extensive discussion with Stephen gay and his team about where
are our challenges right now, as we think about for the future, um, and providing utility
service, um, particularly from a wastewater standpoint, uh, do we have certain basins
if you will, or watersheds that are providing for the needs of development and then at what
point in time does that shift to another, um, watershed area and any master planning
improvements that are needed associated with that. So, um, I guess the point that I'm trying
to make with all of these elements that it's very imperative that we are working closely
with other departments, which our team has, as we've been working throughout this process.
Uh, the other thing I'll point out and I'll get into a little bit more specificity here
on the implementation chapter, but in my opinion, this is one of the most important chapters
or elements of the comprehensive plan because again, it takes all of the goals, policies
and action items and consolidates all of them and then sets the course for the future, um,
as it relates to our community. So in addition to the elements, another important component
associated with the comprehensive plan is the city's preferred growth scenario map.
And this helps answer the question of what we want the development, if any, um, occurring
within our community and how we want that to occur throughout the city. It illustrates
an optimal pattern of growth. It's based on fiscal, economic, environmental quality of
life and the future land use map, um, as well as even housing factors that come into play.
This map helps illustrate to, um, someone, whether it's yourself or a developer interested
in developing within the community staff, uh, property owners, um, others, um, other
partners that we have within the organization, they're looking to see, okay, where's the
city interested in having growth and development occurring? Um, as I mentioned earlier, it's
important that we plan our communities because if we don't plan our communities, then the
developers will plan them for us. So in this case, this, this preferred growth scenario
map takes the best of all the elements and of what we identified through our plan update
process and illustrates where we are interested in having that managed growth, um, where we're
interested in having guided development or place making characteristics. If we're interested
in having more dense, um, intensified development in certain areas, then it's illustrated here
and enhance who you can see the, the, um, shading that's applied to the downtown portion
of the community, given the, the square and, and, um, some of the development that we have
on the horizon for downtown, it focuses on community character. Again, what are we interested
in having for the city, um, in that particular area of the community? Uh, what we have at
the intersection of loop two 88 and 35 and the character for that area may be different
than what we have, um, at the, uh, um, in downtown or let's say, uh, uh, loop two eight
and, and 35 down there, uh, 35 E down there on the south end of our city. So it also allows
us to think about, uh, where are the key areas within our community? I know in the past we've
talked about area plans. We've talked about gateways, um, identifying where those areas
are within the community. So this map helps illustrate this and this works in tandem with
another map that I'm about ready to, to share with you. Um, you can also see on this preferred
growth scenario map. It also illustrates some areas where we've got, uh, parks and open
space identified associated with that and what some of our strategies may be related
to that. But again, the whole goal of this is to illustrate this is what the community's
preferred growth scenario map is for the future. And in this case, and I should have mentioned
this on the onset and my apologies for not addressing it, but the time horizon with the
comprehensive plan is typically about 20 years. So we're looking that far out into the future
associated with this. So this preferred growth scenario map, ideally we're, we're looking
to that in addition to the future land use map and other policies and goals of action
items that we have in the comprehensive plan to help guide the development where we want
it to occur within the community. So the future land use map, again, um, very important component
associated with the comprehensive plan. This is kind of typically our first go-to item,
right? Someone just comes in interested in visiting with us or they might ask us, a resident
might ask us, you know, what's the area or what do we envision for this area of town?
And so we typically pull this map up. It's one that folks have a tendency to be able
to simplistically understand what our goals and objectives are for the future of the city.
What kind of land uses we're looking at having, especially if they're interested in possibly
investing in the community for that perspective. If they're wanting to, let's say construct
a particular type of building, maybe it's more of an industrial use typically than industrial
users. They want to locate near other industrial uses because they don't necessarily want to
locate next to a land use where they might have some incompatibility issues associated
with them, right? But they're also interested in protecting their investment. Um, just like,
you know, someone that's looking at possibly buying a house within the city, um, depending
upon where they're locating at, they may be closer to certain employment areas that they're
interested in being close to, or maybe they're interested in, in staying away from some commercial
areas. Maybe they're more interested in, in locating near the downtown, but they're interested
in knowing, okay, what's the city's future for the downtown area? So it helps allow people
to be able to make some decisions, whether they're a resident or a property owner looking
to acquire property. The important thing to remember about this map is it is not a parcel
by parcel zoning Atlas map. That, that's a separate tool that we have. Zoning is our
tool that implements our comprehensive plan. This map is a high level policy document that
provides the direction on how we anticipate that area of our community developing for
the longer term. Um, again, it illustrates broad land use categories. Each of these colors
and their designation has a corresponding paragraph, if you will, in the conference
of plan that describes the land uses and the type of development that's envisioned within
each of those areas. Uh, the other thing that we take into consideration with the future
land use map, as I mentioned earlier is how does this translate and relate to the mobility
plan? Um, as we work on updates to that, this map is also tied to our community's vision
for the longer term. Again, if we are interested in applying, providing places for employment
for our residents to be able to potentially work out, then we were, we're going to want
to have a balanced network of land uses that provide those employment opportunities. And
then also this map works in tandem with any of the goals and policies and action items
that we put in place. But more importantly, for communities in particular communities
such as Denton, we want to ensure that we have a balance and land uses that are within
the community. Lastly, I'll add is that each time we do a comprehensive plan update, we
are looking at this map, just like we're looking at all the other elements. This is another
key component that we look at just to look to see, okay, have we made decisions with
respect to zoning that have not been consistent with the future land use map? Are we seeing
an area evolve differently than what we anticipated five, 10 years ago, the last time we updated
this map so we can start to make refinements to the map where needed based upon changes
that were implemented. You know, state law says that if you're going to be implementing
zoning, it should be consistent with your comprehensive plan. However, we do recognize
that at times it may be appropriate to deviate from the comprehensive plan recommendation.
You saw that happen just recently with the zoning case that you had on your agenda that
was a small residential neighborhood in an area that was designated business innovation.
The business innovation application was much wider policy application, but we happen to
have this little pocket of residential neighborhood, the likelihood of a developer coming in and
picking up all of those lots and redeveloping it as commercial use is very, very no. So
cases like that, it makes sense to deviate from the comprehensive plan. But again, if
we find ourselves deviating from this plan on a regular basis, then we need to go back
and revisit this plan and see what's changed that's caused us to deviate from it on a regular
basis. So in addition to the preferred growth scenarios map and our future land use map,
we have a map that's called a focus area concept map. It's fairly common to have something
like this included within a comprehensive plan. Sometimes they might be noted as a catalyst
area map, if you will. But it really identifies the areas where the city has determined that
we may need to do a finer level of analysis or finer grain analysis, if you will. We currently
have this in the plan. We've identified a variety of centers where we feel like they
benefit from a more area plan specific analysis. It could also be that we have gateway entries
that we feel that are in need of that finer grain analysis associated with it. But it
really recognizes that, hey, we see these areas within the community as ones that we
might need to take some more time and study in further detail. I know when I first joined
the city back in September, we had a conversation about the area near loop 288 and 35 and two
seventies or excuse me, 377 where all that came together. We've also had conversations
about Northeast Denton. We know the residents are very interested over there in being able
to prepare an area plan. Southeast Denton also comes up as part of that conversation
about do we need an area plan for that. This is a key recommendation out of our 2030 plan
that we anticipate moving forward in our 2040 plan that we really see a strong need and
benefit to do some of those area plans because we just recognize at the very high policy
level 30,000 level view of a comprehensive plan that that may not be as appropriate and
we need to do those deeper dives, if you will. So lastly, the one element that we haven't
touched too much or that I've touched lightly on at the beginning but I really want to focus
on because I think this is really one of the key components of a comprehensive plan that's
extremely important as we move forward and that is the action plan. The action plan in
other plans might be referred to as the implementation plan. And so what this is, is you know I mentioned
earlier we have all of these elements that precede this last element of the comp plan.
This action plan, if you will, takes all of the goals, policies and action statements
from all of the previous elements and consolidates them into one chapter, if you will. It lays
out what are the action items that need to take place. It typically will identify who's
the responsible party associated with implementing that action. It could be multiple partners
that we have in implementing that. But then it also identifies typically a time frame
associated with implementation. It could be that there's a short term, mid term, long
term or maybe it's a continuous item that is going to be worked on over the course of
many years. But to me this is really important because this is where it holds us accountable
as to what items have we implemented, what's still on the horizon that needs to be implemented
as well. It can also be the basis for future capital investments whether it's in a new
building facility or if it's with respect to roadways and utility improvements that
are being done elsewhere within the city. It also can help provide the basis for, for
example, the adoption of affordable housing plan, if you will. So it helps provide the
justification, if you will, for subsequent actions taken by the city. Not only us as
staff is the one that are responsible for implementing the comprehensive plan, but you
all as elected officials as well. The other thing I will also address associated with
this is that in some comprehensive plan, they'll even have a method of which to track to see
how well we've been successful implementing these items. And then lastly, when we are
evaluating rezoning requests, we look to see what policies does that rezoning request or
proposed development project implement associated with our comprehensive plan because it may
be where that request is not wholly consistent with the designation shown on the future land
use map. But it may be that it's implementing, you know, five to 10 other objectives that
we are action items that we have within the comprehensive plan. So changing gears then
a little bit with respect to our Denton 20 40 plan. So we have been diligently working
on this again, my team, along with many other representatives throughout the city have been
assisting in this effort under Ron's leadership. And we have been diligently working on this
and the graphic that is in the lower right hand corner is there is a really good graphic
that illustrates where we are in this process. So we are in the process of reviewing the
draft comprehensive plan. This draft plan will be coming before you in on January 25th is
what we currently have slated so that you are to able to see the document in its integrity
in terms of what's being recommended within it. What is the reason comprehensive plans
take some time to get to this point, if you will, is because like any good comprehensive
plan update project, there's going to be a robust public engagement process. The plan
needs to be reflective of the community's vision and the and all stakeholders within
the community, not just the residents themselves. We've done a robust public engagement effort
if you will, the best that can be done within a public pandemic, right? So we're still working
in under that guys. We had to retool and adjust some of the components associated with that
to be able to maximize the amount of public engagement that we received. Our plan also
includes an evaluation of existing conditions and challenges and opportunities associated
with our community, both today and for the future. We've also had some very special topic
shreds if you will, or focus discussions. We did the open house I believe in September.
I know some of you came and participated in that. We also provided an online opportunity
for folks that were still not comfortable in a public setting to be able to provide
feedback associated with that. So hence why I say, you know, that's where we are today,
our consultants working feverishly on the draft document. My team is as well reviewing
all of the elements that we just received last week so that we can look to see if the
proposed changes are appropriate or if anything else needs to be refined. But many of the
elements that I just shared with you that are in our current comprehensive plan, those
elements are going to be carried forward. Again, because this is just a comprehensive
plan update. So many of those elements, they'll be very much the same from a header standpoint,
but the goals, policies and action items within that will be refined accordingly to better
position us for the next 20 years. And as I mentioned many other times, we've been diligently
coordinating with various other departments. So I feel like we're on the home stretch.
We're at a critical junction, if you will, on trying to get that draft document prepared
and brought forward to council and delivering that to you in January. What we have proposed
before you is the schedule for getting this project across the finish line. And again,
coordinated with this is the parks master plan update, which I believe is scheduled
for early January adoption, but also the mobility plan. And we've been very well aligned with
Becky and her team as it comes, as we work towards getting the comp plan and the mobility
plan to you and delivered simultaneously. But right now what we're anticipating is that
we will get the draft plan document from our consultants in early January, and we will
get that posted on our website. We feel it's important that the community has an opportunity
to review the draft plan for those that might be interested. We have a work session scheduled
with the planning and zoning commission on January 12th, where we can share with them
the draft plan, provide an overview of the document itself, summarize any of the public
outreach and feedback received and present the recommendations associated with the plan.
We feel it's important to allow the planning and zoning commission to weigh in and provide
their feedback to you all as council, since they provide recommendations to council on
land use related matters. We are proposing then to have a work session discussion again
with council on January 25th, again, to do a similar type presentation with PNC share
with you that draft document address the public engagement feedback that we've received so
far and any recommendations related to that. Assuming we do not have any changes to the
document itself, then we are ready to move into the public hearing aspect. And so you
probably see that January 23rd date in there. So we are anticipating to go ahead and notice
for the public hearings that are associated with the comprehensive plan update in anticipation
that if you have no changes associated with the document in your discussion on the 25th,
then we'll move immediately into the public hearing adoption phase. The conference of
plan must go before the planning and zoning commission and receive a recommendation. So
we have that slated for February 9th. If the commission takes action and renders a recommendation
to council, then we would have that to you on February 15th for your consideration of
having the public, the formal public hearing that's required, but then hopefully possibly
adoption associated with that. So I know I've given you a lot of information, happy to answer
any questions that you may have related to this project. So thank you very much for your
time this afternoon. Thank you. Member to Meltzer. Yeah, more of a response than a question.
I think this is probably the most important thing this council will work on. It only involves
every bit of the city. From the people that I speak with, you know, I would say people
are at least as interested in what we envision developing as, you know, where we want to,
at least as interested in where we're going to apply the gas as we're going to tap the
brakes and where we're going to change gears. You know, it's, if you don't get that dynamic
tension, what we want to preserve and where we see the growth, you know, you kind of don't
like it then that's really the crux of so much of what we deal with. There's only so
much we can intelligently respond to at the kind of flyover level overview of document
and there's so much in it, so much work has gone into it, so much ticking and tying with
mobility with parks, you know, and so on. What I would like to solicit my colleagues about
is whether there would be interest in maybe in this January timeframe, adding some sessions,
I don't care if you call it a retreat or it's just, you know, whatever you call the time,
to drill down at some greater degree of granularity of area by area. What did it look like before?
What has changed? What is the recommended change in the future land use map? At some
degree of granularity where we can understand it as people who drive the streets and go
to neighborhoods and so I don't know, you know, I don't know how many chunks that is.
I've mentioned this to the city manager who has suggested that in about four hours we
ought to be able to do a good job and I'm, you know, open to that suggestion. So I'm
very wowed by the comprehensiveness of the work that's been done. I want to really be
able to appreciate each bit of it. Thanks.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, the mayor got to one of my questions and that is I'd like
to feel, so there's a lot of work going on and there's a number of elements and I think
from the fact that when you look at the preferred growth map and then you compare it to either
the staff, council or citizen generated SAPs that like they're completely aligned and I
think one that that is a feedback mechanism in addition to the feedback mechanism that
y'all are getting at the September meeting and as part of the public outreach and so there's
I'd like to have a better feel for these feedback loops where, you know, where we were, how
well did we adopt it, what are the recommendations going forward so we can see which direction
the vectors are going and did we grow in the way we thought we did and are we planning
based on this document, based on boots on the ground. I'd like to see a little more
sort of like feedback to us from the and I know that comes with the end of the reporting
but I completely agree that I think it would be helpful as you bring additional materials
for us to, you know, kind of timeline us a little bit and get us to what are those changes
that we thought we had that we actually did and where do we think we're going in light
of those two previous comments. So, you know, monitoring in general I think is tricky but
I'd like to see maybe just a little bit more at the coarse-grained and the really fine-grained
level.
And as I say and we can bring back that level of information, I was gonna say if it's the
desire of City Council to have the work session, obviously we're here as staff to be responsive
to that with the addition of the work session that will potentially adjust and affect our
timeline associated with getting the project across the finish line. If we're also at the
capacity on our contract with our consultant so there may be a contractual change also
that's associated with that but I think David has also something to add so.
Just to add some emphasis, I think the timeline that you see in front of you really was a
here's the most streamlined possible timeline understanding there were probably gonna be
some subsequent conversations so that January 25th was the big day to actually give more
of the detail, give the overview as it says. So certainly we anticipated it was likely
we would have additional work sessions. If that takes the form of a separate workshop,
not in our regular meetings, I think that's fine. I think probably following the 25th
it would be the best time for that after we have that initial presentation to dig into
the details. I think that would be perfectly fine.
If I could have one more ask as well and just if there are some individual areas or ideas
just as being vetted today, this update was really just that high level. We ultimately
have to go through the process here and P and Z but any feedback or input or things that
one might like to see in advance of that it would be useful if you could send that to
the city manager and then they could they could get it to us and we'll try to incorporate
all of those elements. So very, very useful. Thank you. Okay. I'm done, sir. Councilmember
Ritter. Quick question. So looking over at the next steps. So the January, the plan January
12th P and Z work session. Will that be, will that be a very different presentation than
what we got today? It'll be much more in the weeds. This is okay. Yes. So today was again,
just to do that overview of what a comprehensive plan is just to give you a reminder of what
are the components that make up the comprehensive plan and then to lay out the next step so
you know what's on the horizon after the first of the year because I know we have quite a
bit initiatives we're trying to deliver on probably as a whole as a council. This just
being one of them. So that was the whole purpose of that. When we get to January, our intention
was that we would do a much more detailed conversation about here's what is in the proposed
Denton 2040 plan. And when we would lay that out for you, I think you'll find that much
of it will still be the same, but there will be some refinements to this because it's,
it's not a substantial overhaul of the plan, but it is an update. I mean, we have evaluated
the entire plan itself. So we would be presenting to you what's changed, what modifications
have been made to the plan in the presentation that we were anticipating that we would make
on January 12th with the planning and zoning commission would be much the same presentation
that we would give council on the 25th, but your presentation would also include the component
of here's what we heard from the planning and zoning commission, which, and then, you
know, if we're interested in having some sort of work session event after that, there may
be interest. I've done this with some in some other communities of having that joint work
session with the planning and zoning commission, if there's any interest amongst this group
doing that, because that allows us to be able to get council and the planning and zoning
commission in the same room for y'all to hear from the same discussions as you formulate
any direction associated with the finalization of this plan.
Okay. Thanks. And then just another quickie question. The draft 2040 plan that'll be published
on the website, will that have a feedback button so the public can in the same space
on the website where they read it, give feedback directly to council and staff?
We can definitely look into that. I think in the past, we've also had staff contact
information that if folks wanted to provide comments to us on the plan, we've given them
the opportunity to email Ron directly associated with that. So we can work with our team internally
to see how we can set that up. If you want the emails going directly to you all as council,
happy to have that included. But otherwise, we're happy to receive all those comments
and call through those and then provide a summary for you, because I would anticipate
we'll have some overlap in the comments that are received.
Yeah. I would love if at the click of the button, it could send feedback to both staff
and council. I really like seeing, obviously if somebody has feedback that they only want
to go to staff, then they could just email staff. But I think that when there's a feedback
button, I think people are more likely to give feedback and it also creates the feeling
that feedback is welcome. It's less intimidating than emailing somebody individually and whatever
redundancy there is. I don't mind that. I want to see it. We're used to having our inboxes
filled with stuff, but I want to see everything everybody has to say about the plan.
And along those same lines, also I would anticipate the presentation that we give you on the 25th
will also provide a summary overview of the feedback that we received from the community.
What I can tell you is with our consultants shared with us that a lot of the feedback
that was received thus far through our public engagement efforts is still consistent with
the vision that we have provided for in the comprehensive plan. So we're seeing some parallels
there in not so much any significant diversion from what's in the plan right now is my understanding
just from an overview conversation with them.
Just to add on to that, a thorough compilation of all of the actual feedback, not just a
summary, would be really helpful for me to actually see all of the feedback and to have
that public, any private identifying information about people can be taken out. But that's
always more helpful to me than a summary.
Council Member Davis.
Thank you, Mayor. I guess I'll join the course by saying I think this schedule is probably
pretty optimistic knowing this council and also the importance of the project that Mayor
Pro Tem has already pointed out. There's going to be no shortage of opinions and thoughts
and suggestions no matter how well drafted the draft is. Certainly helpful that we'll
come after P&Z, but I don't know about legal notice on the 23rd. I think that might be
a little optimistic. If we do notice on the 23rd, I guess fair notice to staff, we will
be re-noticing in all likelihood after the 23rd. So just something for my colleagues
to know when that comes up at the public hearing that we'll need to re-notice if we postpone
or maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, maybe we get it done by then. I don't expect so,
especially given the feedback we've already had on mobility plan just during the portion
that we did and knowing that there's more work that continued. We had to pause and then
there's more that continued that we haven't seen yet, the council hasn't seen yet. I
would be very appreciative of, on the 7th, an executive summary or a memo that could
go to council. I think it's one thing to put it kind of on the website, make it available
to the public, let the public come through it, but we'll get direct questions as well.
And I'm not sure I want to see every single email from the public that staff might be
better at addressing or the feedback that staff would be better at incorporating into
the comp plan if it's something glaring that's pointed out. But when the plan is released,
we need to also be well equipped to intelligently speak to questions and not necessarily defend
the plan, but know what parts of the plan are different when somebody says, "Councilmember
Davis, why do I care about this plan? I can give them all the good reasons Mayor Pro Tem
already pointed out, but also say here are the specific things this plan does that 2030
did not do for us. Here are the things that I'm looking forward to implementing in this
2040 plan that we don't have in place now or are different from the last plan." I think
that will also expedite our conversations when we do, when we get together on the 25th.
And I don't think it'll preclude the need for another work session, but it might get
us a little bit closer and at least maybe help us front load our questions also, help
us focus in a little bit with the questions we ask in advance of our work session. Another
one that may be helpful is either if the minutes are prepared already from the P&Z work session
or a summary of the P&Z concerns or the P&Z conversation, that would also be helpful.
I'll do my very best to watch the whole session if I can. I don't know if all seven of us
will have the opportunity to watch the entire P&Z work session, but it would be helpful
to have some sort of executive summary of that as well. That way we're not asking the
same questions 15 times that P&Z has just done and maybe a little bit better than we
did. Okay. Mayor Proctor Meltzer. Yeah, I would just say you all think about what helps
you most, but I personally would be totally open to meeting jointly with P&Z. Okay. Any
other comments or questions for staff? I have one thing just to follow up. Just real quick,
I want to make sure that I will ask staff to at least look out for at least one or two
workshop dates after the 25th. I'm going to recommend that if we do that, we do sort of
a 10 to 2, give staff time in the morning and afternoon to kind of pick back up with
their other responsibilities. I kind of need to know though, do you prefer a work session
with just council or do you like the idea of a joint planning and zoning meeting? Anyone
have councilor Armitage? So I think it's important that the planning and zoning be able to meet
on their own and council meet on their own. Okay. Anyone else? Councilor Davis. I think
that's my preference as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with us meeting together,
but I think they have a slightly different focus than we do and our focus is more comprehensive
than theirs is. And that wasn't a pun, it's just a fact. And to be dead honest, I'm not
sure what room we'd all get into that we'd all be comfortable with all being in the same
room. Okay. Not because they're bad folks, you know, the pandemic and whatever. Got it.
Anyone else? Okay. Then my only feedback is to Scott's question. What I'd like to see
is we start now with DTV and I've already given it a title. Comprehensive understanding
of the comprehensive plan. Because I just think it's important, right? That is the biggest
confusion is that this is an overview, it's guidelines, but it's subject to each property,
you know, each proposal, so it has to be a living, breathing document that moves, ebbs,
flows and that sort of thing. So I just think what I envision is something similar to when
you go to a conference now, they kind of have the, where you go off and kind of give a guided
tour of what this thing was when it was planned and here it is on the ground and you kind
of get that view of it. I think there's something like that that can be activated with the comprehensive
plan to say here's a road that fit the mobility plan back in 2018, it developed a little different,
here's why and here's how it still matches the plan, but I just think I'm concerned that
people see the plan as rigid and say this is supposed to go here and it is not that,
it is a guiding document and so I'm not trying to give you the answer, just saying I would
like to see something that accompanies it via and it doesn't have to be specifically
DTV, we can contract out, but just someone to tell the story and in that way it lessens
the confusion from the public and educates the public and informs their questions and
we get more detailed questions or more on point questions and because they've not had
the luxury of sitting through these meetings and getting up to speed and just like we do
it every week and some are saying hey we need another work session, then apply that to the
average citizen that doesn't have that, doesn't have the work session, doesn't have the weekly
input, this I envision some sort of kind of interactive component that gives them at least
the base level understanding to then give them the ability to give us feedback, detailed
questions. So thank you very much, great presentation, look forward to it.
Yeah, so that's the last of our work sessions, dinner is here, we have two closed sessions
so I will take, let me deal with the closed session side of things and then we'll come
up with a game plan. I will convene the closed session at 449 p.m. we will consider the following
item deliberation regarding real property under Texas government code section 551.072,
consultation with attorneys under Texas government code section 551.071. Okay, so it is 450 and
let's take 20 minutes to grab food, etc. and then we'll get started in our closed session
so that'll put us at 5, 10 thereabouts getting started in closed session, thank you.
Good evening and welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council, it is 629, we're
a minute or so early, but it's December 14th and we do have a quorum so we're back and
that's fine because our next thing is not scheduled to 630 which it is now. But that
being said, so brings us to the consent agenda, reminder to my peers, JK and S were pulled
for individual for separate votes, but I'll take a motion on the screen, Council Member
Davis. I move approval of the consent agenda accepting JK and S. Council Member Beck. I
second. Okay, we have a motion by Council Member Davis, second by Council Member Beck
to approve the consent agenda but for JK and S. Let's vote on the screen. And that
passes 7-0. I'll call the first item and we'll let the record reflect that Council Member
Davis has recused himself. Item J is ID 212647, consider adoption of ordinance of the City
of Denton approving and authorizing the City Manager to execute a interlocal cooperation
agreement between the City of Denton and Denton County for ambulance services and declaring
an effective date. I'll take a motion Council Member Beck. I move approval. Thank you Council
Member McGuire. I second. Motion by Council Member Beck, second by Council Member McGuire.
Any discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the screen.
Bear with me one second. Okay. That takes us to, what was it, J and K, is that right?
Let me get to my notes. Yes, okay. Which is ID 212648, consider an adoption of ordinance
of the City of Denton approving and authorizing the City Manager to execute interlocal cooperation
agreement between the City of Denton and Denton County for fire protection services and declaring
an effective date. Council Member McGuire. I move approval. Mayor Fulton Meltzer. I second.
And any discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the screen. Okay, that passes 6-0, takes
us to item S, the last item in the consent agenda, and that's ID 212532, consider adoption
of ordinance authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement between the City of
Denton and Denton County for the payment and use of hotel tax revenue in support of Denton
County Museums in providing an effective date. And so I'll take it. Council Member Armitage.
Yes, in addition to this being pulled for Council Member Davis's recusal, I also ask
to have this pulled because I'm going to be voting no to it and I'll explain why. I have
consistently voted against hot funds going to the county. I don't believe that a smaller
taxing entity such as a city should be providing hot funds to a larger taxing entity, any taxing
entity for that matter, that is the county. In this case, I will also add that this is
going to the county museums and while there's some really wonderful things in county museums,
I'm concerned that this will be used for the upcoming Confederate monument exhibit and
I don't think our city funds should be going to, or I can't support anyways, city funds
going to restore and preserve that monument which the Texas Historical Foundation has acknowledged
has no historic value. But again, primarily it's for the reason of them being a county
entity and just for consistency in voting no. Okay, Mayor Hatsbett moves approval.
Council Member Byrd? Okay, we have a motion by Mayor Hatsbett, second by Council Member
Byrd. Let's vote on this discussion. Seeing none, let's vote on screen. And that passes
five to one and Council Member Davis will rejoin us. That'll take us to our public hearings.
The four public hearings you have before you, Scott McDonald's here to give you a very brief
and overview. You received the information earlier. The changes have been made and so
there will be no presentation other than if there's any other questions.
Okay, great. So you're... Thank you, Mayor. Yes, and I'm happy to pull up the presentation.
It's of value for the audience but overall we discussed this in the work session. We
weren't planning on having individual presentations on each of the criteria manuals. The corrections
that were noted have been made and emailed to everyone and the other materials are in
your backup. Okay, so I will call all four items and then,
yeah, if you have some kind of overview that you can... So it will be part of the record,
that'd be great. Absolutely. And let me get all the numbers right. So it's item A, which
is ID 212556, which is hold a public hearing, consider adoption of an ordinance of the City
of Denton, Texas amending the solid waste recycling criteria manual. Item B, ID 212557,
hold a public hearing, consider adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas amending
the stormwater criteria manual and providing the servability and savings clause and effective
date. Item C, ID 212558, hold a public hearing, consider adoption of the ordinance of the
City of Denton, Texas amending the transportation criteria manual, providing the servability
and savings clause. And item D, ID 212559, hold a public hearing, consider adoption of
the ordinance of the City of Denton, Texas amending the water and wastewater criteria
manual. So, okay. And I'll turn it back over to you. Again, the criteria manuals that were
just formally represented are part of the Denton Development Code. The criteria manuals,
each of those individual documents work succinctly with the Development Code and the construction
specification standard details. We have staff available to answer any questions on any of
the specific ones as you go through each of those as you call them individually. Okay.
Thank you very much. And any questions for staff or is there anyone in the public that
would like to speak? This is a public hearing, so you don't have to fill out a blue card
in advance. You can come down and speak and you'll just fill it out afterwards. Seeing
no one jumping up. Council Member Davis. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of the draft ordinance
provided in our backup materials adopting the solid waste and recycling criteria manual
and inserting as Exhibit A the draft criteria manual we received by email at 608 this evening.
Okay. So we have a motion for Item A, just to make sure we're all tracking, you said
it right, but just tracking along. Is the, Council Member Arnter? I second that. Okay,
we have a motion and a second for Item A. Any discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on
the screen. That passes 7-0. That'll take us to Item B. The item was previously called.
I'll take a motion. Council Member Davis. I move approval of the draft ordinance provided
in our backup adopting the stormwater criteria manual and inserting as Exhibit A the draft
criteria manual provided in the backups with the agenda. Okay. Council Member McGuire?
I second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Motion by Council Member Davis, second by
Council Member McGuire for Item B. Any other discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the
screen. Passes 7-0. I'll take a now to Item C. I'll take a motion. Council Member Davis.
I move approval of the draft ordinance provided in our backups for adoption of the transportation
criteria manual and inserting as Exhibit A to that ordinance the draft criteria manual
provided with our backups. Council Member Bett? I second. Council Member McGuire? Thank you,
Mayor. I just want to make sure that those watching are aware. I know that there have
been some concerns about the transportation criteria manual not integrating the Vision
Zero goals, and we heard from Becky DeViney and other planning and transportation staff
earlier today that they would be integrating those, but they want to finish up the city-wide
speed study and gather some other data before that gets integrated, so we should be seeing
those changes to the transportation criteria manual coming next year. Okay, any other comments?
Seeing none, we have a motion by Council Member Davis and a second by Council Member Beck
for Item C. Let's vote on the screen. That passes 7-0. Takes us to the last public hearing,
Item D. I'll take a motion. Council Member Davis? Mayor, I move approval of the draft
ordinance adopting a wastewater and wastewater criteria manual and inserting as Exhibit A
the draft criteria manual we received by email at 6-08 this evening. Council Member McGuire?
I second. Okay, we have a motion by Council Member Davis, second by Council Member McGuire.
Discussion? And I want to echo the city manager's statements earlier about all the hard work
that went into this, and I appreciate staff's attention to detail, responsiveness, et cetera,
to get us to this point, so thank you very much, and I think it will be easier to update
going forward and continue to make this document cover as well, so I'm excited to be at this
juncture. Any other discussion? Let's vote on the screen. And that passes 7-0. Takes
us to our Items for Individual Consideration. Okay, thank you. And so in these items, I
want to give people ample time. If you're here and you want to speak on an item for
individual consideration, you have to fill out the blue card before the item is called.
This is unique to individual consideration versus public hearing, so make sure if you
have a desire to speak on, so it's Section 3 of your agenda, and there's A through E.
Obviously, a big part of this, just elephant in the room. I always say if there's an elephant
in the room, you might as well pet it. Item B is the redistricting item, so if you care
to be heard on that, you'll have to fill out a blue card before we get there, and it's
the second thing we're calling, so just -- what's that? Yeah, and then Item C, if you're tracking
along in that same section, this was the item around La La Ranch and some property near
Crum that we discussed last week, that's been postponed, so I'm not going to be calling
Item C. We'll go to D and E after A, AB, so just to make sure we're all on the same page.
So that being said, I'll call the first item for individual consideration, and it's Item
A212801, Consider Adoption and Ordance of the City of Denton, Texas, a Home Rule. Municipal
Corporation Extending the Effective Period of the Declared State of Local Disaster Related
to the COVID-19 Emergency. Thank you, Mayor and Councilman Ryan Adams,
Chief of Staff. Let me pull up my presentation. Make sure I get the right one. There we go.
So this is just a brief presentation to provide a little bit of background as Council considers
a declaration of disaster and a new order of Council. To provide a little bit of information,
we have done this many times with the Council, presenting nearly 40 previous times on the
pandemic, the most recent one being last Tuesday, December 7th. At that meeting, we did give
a brief update on the transmission status of COVID-19. We gave an update on the 17th
order of Council, which is the order that's currently in effect, and we did receive direction
for extending the disaster declaration and adopting a new 18th order of Council that
extends the masking provisions for one more month. Today, you will get that same brief
update on the statistics and transmission status of COVID-19, and then you will consider
the disaster declaration and the new order of Council.
Very briefly, I think many of you probably saw Dr. Richardson's update to the Commissioner's
Court this morning. So cases have continued to stabilize. They are still lower than they
were early in the fall when Delta first reared its ugly head. We did get some more information
on the Omicron variant this week. That variant is, while Delta is still the preeminent variant,
Omicron is in Denton County. They did confirm that today. And Omicron may overtake Delta
as the main variant. However, while preliminary results, preliminary information shows that
it may be more transmissible, they are very emphatic that three doses of the vaccine are
effective in preventing severe symptoms. Again, it's still very early. They are still gathering
data, but that is the information that's available right now. And as we're talking about vaccines,
I do want to report that it was reported today that if you are 16 or 17 years old, you are
now eligible for a booster. So anyone 16 and up can get all three doses. And then those
who are between 5 and 11, which was news that we shared last time, they can still receive
Pfizer vaccines. So children 5 to 11 and really 5 till question mark can receive vaccines
from Pfizer. Just more of our data related to hospitalization. It has not changed much
since we last reported to you regarding ICU bed availability. And then you also see the
total number of beds, the percentage of beds over a seven day period, seven day moving
average out of all the hospital beds, what percentage are COVID related? And it has been
fairly stable since the beginning of November. We also have not changed much with regard
to our transmission level and the CDC mask guidelines. So again, we have to move into
the lower moderate transmission range. We are still in high as we have been the last
several updates that we've provided you. And at this point with our cases stabilizing,
we look to be in this high category for the foreseeable future. So just a couple of notes
on the 17th order of council, which is our current order of council related to masking
requirements. So we passed our current order in November to extend through December 31.
And we, pardon me, I got ahead of myself. So that is subsequent to our disaster declaration,
which was also extended through December 31. So as a reminder, the disaster declaration
is a prerequisite for the 17th order of council. So you cannot have an order with that disaster
declaration. We did get asked when it comes to extending the disaster declaration if it's
required for any grant funding and what we can report to council that we have not found
any current or foreseeable grant opportunities that would be reliant on a local order, pardon
me, a local disaster declaration. Many of those would be reliant on a state or federal
disaster declaration. Does not mean there could not be something in the future, but
right now we don't see any that would hinge on whether or not there's a local declaration
in effect. And if a declaration is allowed to expire, it can be reinstated in the future
by the council. So moving on to the 17th order of council, the mask requirements do still
apply to city buildings, K through 12 schools, daycares, and certain commercial buildings.
We have previously reported the mixed response received from the public. We do want to provide
an update related to parks numbers and usage of recreation facilities. We have run numbers
and compared them to 2019. And this is similar to what we previously reported related to
parks, but we have seen about double the amount of the typical post summer reduction in rec
center utilization. We attribute that to the mask requirements, although there are a lot
of factors at play into that, but we have received anecdotal feedback from our members
and from our patrons that they are moving to other opportunities for fitness that don't
have mask requirements. So we did want to report that to the council because it has
come up in the past how parks has been affected by the order of council. So before you today,
you do have the opportunity to consider extending your disaster declaration through March 31st
and adopting an 18th order of council that would extend through January 31st. So council
of course can adopt the ordinance as presented, modify the provisions or dates of either the
declaration of disaster or the order of council, making sure that the order of council does
not go further than the declaration or council can take no action, letting both expire at
the end of the month. So I'm happy to answer any questions that the council might have.
We also have Gary Packin here from Parks. And I'll yield the floor.
Okay. Councilman Beck.
Thank you Mr. Mayor. I think our actions the last time were prescient. We've seen the Delta
primary variant increase, especially the cold weather in the holidays. That's been verified
by Dr. Richardson. You don't have to take my word for it. We've seen the occurrence
of Omicron in Denton County, sub variants are in Texas as well. That's been verified
by Dr. Richardson. You don't have to take my word for it. I think the fact that we are
sticking to our guns and maintaining proper public health actions. I encourage everyone,
particularly those here in the audience to do likewise. That is our rule in this house.
So I'm going to, at this time, move approval of the ordinance as presented.
Okay. Any other questions for staff? Ryan, I have one question. Two questions.
So the rec centers, if -- I'm going to phrase this a certain way. So, right, if you agree
with the mask mandate, you can use the public rec center, right? If you wear the mask in
agreement with the majority of this council, you can use the rec center, the public rec
center. Meaning city rec center?
Yes, sir. So we do require masking, particularly for
our fitness classes. So if you are wearing a mask, if you're wearing a face covering
and you're acting in concert with council's order, there are no inhibitions to using the
rec center.
Right. And then that same public rec center, if you disagree, right, or if you follow the
governor's order or however you want to phrase that, you can't use the -- how do we handle
that?
So if I can defer to Gary, if he's -- there he is.
Good evening, Mayor and City Council Gary Pack and Director of Parks and Recreation.
To follow up your question, we have masks available. If someone comes in with a mask,
we ask them to kindly put on a mask. We do not confront the resident or the user and
create a confrontation. We encourage them to do that. If they refuse to, we just let
it go.
Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. And one more question for you, because
I was a little confused for Ryan. I'm sorry. Thank you, Gary. So my question is, the Dallas
ordinance, you sent that out, and I was trying to -- you know, that's what we patterned after.
And the Dallas County ordinance, I do believe, did it exclude or include private businesses?
I couldn't -- I read it, but I couldn't -- I thought it made -- it exempted some private
businesses, but did I read that wrong?
I would have to go back and look to be perfectly honest with you, Mayor.
Okay. No worries. I'll take a look at it.
Sure.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Okay. Councilmember Armitage.
I second that motion. I'm not sure.
Yeah. That's what I was looking for. You had my question, and then you hadn't seconded.
So we have a motion by Councilmember Beck, seconded by Councilmember Armitage. Any other
discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the screen. Thank you. And that passes 4-3. Okay.
That takes us to item B. Last call before I call it. No moving? Okay. So this is item
B, which is ID 212808, consider adoption of ordinance of the City of Denton -- of the
City Council of the City of Denton, approving the redistricting of the City's single-member
council districts and establishing a new district boundary lines based on the 2020 census data
for Denton City Council elections and providing an effective date.
Mayor and Council, Ryan Adams, Chief of Staff, this is just a very brief introductory presentation
to set the basis for Council's discussion. Again, a bit of background that Council is
very familiar with. This process is subsequent to our review of the 2020 census results and
how that impacts our district boundaries and our balance between our districts. We do show
the timeline that we have gone through so far. I will mention to the Council one new
thing. When we did put out our public input opportunity, we received over 150 comments
submitted through the web form. I think our last count was 160. And those all went to
each and every Councilmember. So we do have our final adoption being considered
today by the Council, and we are still scheduling a discussion on polling locations in early
January. There were four proposed plans submitted to
and discussed by Council over the previous two months, and we received direction at the
December 7th public hearing to include Plan B in the ordinance -- in the draft ordinance
that Council is going to be considering today. Just a quick look at Plan B, and I can bring
up a map later if we need to. So Council, in its consideration, can vote
on the draft ordinance as we have presented it, modify that ordinance, or take no action.
And we do have bigger staff representatives. Bob Heath, he is on the line. So he can answer
any questions that Council may have. >> Okay. So let's take it in order. Questions
for staff? Is there any questions for staff or for the consultant?
Seeing none. Okay. I have two callers on the phone. So let's take those, Rachel, and then
we'll hear from those in the room. >> I'm sorry, Mayor. I don't quite have them
in the queue yet. Could I totally take some in the room and then we'll get right to them?
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. So the first speaker is Liam.
If you can come down and give your name and address, you'll have four minutes. And if
everyone could use the mic behind the screen, that would be great. Thank you. All right.
Name and address, and then you can go ahead and begin.
>> My name is Liam Gaum Wakefield. I'm at 411 Ponder Avenue, Denton, Texas. And I'm
for Brian Beck's proposal because it would align the districts more with communities
of interest that are there. It would put, it would also allow a, at least for the area
around the landfill, a greater access to their city councilor because I've, I currently,
I have moved out of the area around the landfill, but I've lived around there for seven years.
And I rarely knew who my city council, like where my city councilor was at that time and
having someone that lives by it and understands what it's like living by it is nice and helpful.
And then for those complaining about how it would be gerrymandering, like how it's supposed
to be for political purposes, I don't quite know how, like if most people in ropes and
ranch don't want to move their district and somebody votes to move their district, I don't
know and they vote as much as they do, I don't know how they can expect that person to win
in their district. The political spectrum of the council would most likely stay the same.
I would love if Alison McGuire would win, but I don't know if she could if this plan,
if Brian Beck's plan goes into effect. That would be all.
Okay. Thank you very much. And the next person in the room is Ryan. If you can give your
name and address and you have four minutes and you can bend that to adjust accordingly.
Thank you. Sorry, I'm short. I also would like to apologize if I'm shaky or I'm out
of breath. I had to run from the bathroom to get here to speak. And I wrote it down.
Sorry about that. My name is Ryan Cimmergreen. I live at 1014 Mack Place. I am a UNT sculpture
student and I used to live in the district that is being reconsidered for redistricting
and whatnot. I'm just here to say that I'm in favor of Councillor Brian Beck's redistricting
plan of removing Robeson Ranch from district three. As you can probably tell, I do not
have many similarities to the people who live in Robeson Ranch. And I believe that if neighborhoods
that are closer to UNT campus continue to stay together with Robeson Ranch, many students
and people my age who are already discouraged by local politics will feel like the people
who represent them don't have their best interest at heart. Thank you again. Sorry for the shaking.
Thank you very much. All right. Rachel, how are we doing?
We're well, sir. I will have Matt as soon as you hear the beep. Okay. Matt, if you can
hear me, can you press star six, please? Hello, can you hear me? Yes. If you can give your
name and address, you'll have four minutes to speak. Are you there? Hi. Can you guys
hear me? Yes. If you can give your name and address, you have four minutes to speak. Sorry
about that. There was a delay on the feed. Yes. My name is Matt Pernetta. Address is
1225 Tulane Drive, Denton, Texas. Just wanted to call in and voice my support for the redistricting.
As a person who follows local politics and everything, I understand that there was a
consulting team that opted to do nothing in terms of redistricting. Knowing how Denton
is going to grow in the next few years, I think either one of the plans, either counselor
Beck or counselor Davis's plans, do allow for growth and won't put us basically wildly
unbalanced in the next five years. The one before us, I believe, is council member Beck's
and having looked at that and seeing the way that it's broken up and the way that it keeps
communities of interest together. I think that's the primary goal of any redistricting
and I think this accomplishes this. I do support this and I hope you guys vote yes on it. I'll
leave my comments at that. Thank you. Thank you. Rachel, do you have the next caller ready
to? I'm having a little trouble getting the next caller online. If you'll hold just one
second, Mayor. Sure. I'll move to the next person and you can let me know if you're successful.
Very good. Thank you. Okay. Great. So Brett Davis. Hello. My name is Brett Davis and I
live at 1014 Mack Drive. I'm a UNT graduate, a tenant, and I'm speaking today in favor
of counselor Brian Beck's redistricting map and here's why. Here is a picture of the scenic
view of Robeson Ranch featuring a golf course in the foreground. On Robeson Ranch's website,
it states, "From the moment you enter the community, you'll appreciate the upscale setting
of natural beauty and quality and notice the abundance of amenity choices." And here is
a photo of another familiar debt and landmark, Fry Street. Around the block on Hickory, there's
Cool Beans, which has a Google review from three years ago that says, "It's 11 p.m. and
you're on fry. Where are you going to? Pizza? No. Sandwiches? Ha. Cookies? What are you,
five years old? Just go get greasy stuff here and please complain about not having fried
mac and cheese anymore if you can stop by." So clearly, these two areas are different
communities of interest. So why are we putting the cat and the dog in the hen house when
it comes to how district three is drawn? My question for the counselors who are in opposition
or apprehension about Beck's proposal is do these two places actually have anything in
common or are they grouped together to dilute student voices? That is among one of the many
reasons I implore counsel to adopt Brian Beck's proposal. Thank you.
Thank you. Zachary, and I don't want to say your last name wrong. Sorry. Thank you. If
you could give your name and address, please. You have four minutes.
Yeah. My name is Zachary Cathcart. I reside at 2105 Carriage Hill. So that puts me in
district three, which is the main point of contention, I feel like, for all these discussions.
As a resident of district three, I just want to put my emphatic support behind the redistricting
proposal by Council Person Beck. As someone who lives way far north side of Denton, I
don't really feel like I have a whole lot in common with the people that live about
as far south in Denton as you can get. It just doesn't feel like a match. I don't feel
like Council Person Davis has an easy job trying to bridge that gap between all the
various interest groups. We've heard a lot from UNT students, and it feels like a much
more natural fit to me in terms of what we want out of the city and the future of it.
There's a lot of discussion about growth. This last census, the city has grown by 20%.
I don't feel like in the next census, it's going to be a smaller number than that. I
feel like the growth is accelerating. I feel as though Council Person Beck plan incorporates
that growth in a much more effective way than the current districts do. Thank you.
Thank you. Emily, is it Deacon? Thank you. Hello, I'm Emily Deacon. I also live at 2105
Carriage Hill and live in District 3 with Jesse Davis as my representative. I fully
support Brian Beck's proposal because me and my community that I know, which I have two
brothers that also live in District 3, we are not represented by Robinson Ranch. That's
a community that is 55 plus. That doesn't represent my community. So if they could be
moved, that would be awesome. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Rachel, were you able
to get the other caller on the line? Yes, sir. If you'll hold, please. I'll get her
in now. Thank you. Yes. Hello, if you could give your name and address, you'll have four
minutes to speak. Okay, thank you. My name is Barbara Rodman. I live at 2102 Azalea Street.
And I would just like to reiterate the support I've expressed and several letters to the
city for the redistricting plan submitted by Councilperson Beck. And I support that
not only because it reunites my neighborhood, the Dena neighborhood with other areas with
which we share demographic and cultural values, but because it is the best plan for Denton
as a whole. This plan reconnects neighborhoods inappropriately divided 10 years ago in the
pre redistricting are roughly equal in population. It strengthens minority voting powers. It
maintains communities of interest across the city as defined by shared values, shared culture,
amenity juice, and growth patterns. And it increases the compactness of the districts
while outlining sensible boundaries. So two incumbents may be negatively affected by the
new boundaries. They seemingly represent two opposing political viewpoints. And it is clear
that no one party or end of the political spectrum is inappropriately advantaged or
disadvantaged. To my knowledge, only one neighborhood, one that currently has a disproportionate
impact on city elections, because it was gerrymattered into a strained alliance with other city areas
in the previous district design, that that's the only neighborhood that really opposed
this plan. And the rest of the city would really benefit from having more reasonable
boundaries. I believe that the council has done what it is required to do to act on behalf
of the majority of the residents of the city, developing a plan that meets the ethical and
legal obligations of any districting plan to try and represent all residents equitably.
I urge you to finalize your approval of Plan B. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Next in the room is Mr. Don Hicks. Thank you, sir.
My name is Don Hicks. I live in Roves and Ranch. I am a realtor out there. My website
is rovesandranchhouses.com. A lot of the people that I work with and work for are not interested
in being moved from District 3 to District 4. A lot of interesting things that the council
needs to be reminded of. One, we pay school taxes, but we don't have any kids and children
in school. That's a cash cow for you. Don't forget our roads are maintained by us. And
that too is a cash cow for you because we're not spending the county's money or the city's
money on this stuff. The important thing is there is supposed to be a representation on
the council for us. As an election judge, I see people come to vote. They stand in line.
They go through the process to vote. And they ask me quite often, "Well, who's the Republican
on the, who's the Democrats on the city council?" I say, "It's supposed to be non-political."
I encourage you to remember that. Your position is to remind, to remember you represent us
as a city. And if there is anything that you need to realize, is that your true colors
are coming out when you're trying to push through an obviously political agenda. Now,
Chairman McGuire, I don't know if the rest of the city council just wants to get rid
of you, but you can expect that you will be replaced. We have 4,300 registered voters
in Robeson Ranch. Watch out. Be careful what you ask for. Okay? Remember us. Thank you.
Thank you. Next is Julianne Rimsky. My name is Julianne Rimsky. I live at 11904 Glenbrook.
First off, I appreciate the additional opportunity to speak with you. My issue all along has
not been, "Yes, redistrict. No, don't redistrict." It's been this process. Once you as the council
decided that you would do a redistricting, or at least the exercise that you set up to
proceed in, you set up your criteria. However, from what I had found by following on videos,
reading agendas, reading minutes, that you sidestepped a lot of that because you did
not provide, in my interpretation, that criteria to your consultant. You did not, in my estimation,
and I will admit, it's my estimation, that what areas you saw were a deficit. Okay? What
community should come together? What community should be split apart or so? But instead,
one of the council members went and came up with their own plan, and somehow or other
that got released. Members of the city heard about it, and all whatever came into being
as to what was going on. The plan thus with its life of its own. I find it interesting
that in light of the strong support that those for Plan B that are sitting up there on the
dais have, that I'm going to ask you all the following question. Did at any time since
this plan was done privately, the four or five council members have any discussion among
themselves as a group to reinforce each other's stance for Plan B, to help provide rationales
to each other as to why you would stand for Plan B. And I'm going to ask you if you are
willing to go on record that you did not. And I thank you.
Thank you. Nathaniel Johnson.
I hope everybody is well. My name is Nathaniel Johnson. My address is 6109 Thurbrad Trail.
Den, Texas, 76210. I'm standing here in proxy of my mother, who is 85, who lives at 320
Ruth, Den, Texas, 76205, which is in Southeast Den. There was a lot of confusion going on
with this redistricting. People didn't understand it. So I contacted and got information about
the redistricting process. It was explained thoroughly, and people in the neighborhood
was thinking that it was directly affecting inside of the neighborhood, but it wasn't.
Everyone always thought that that landfill was part of District 1. There was no fuss
about it. So I talked to my mom about it. She's been voting here for 60 years. She said
that the redistricting and having the counselor for District 1 to be in control of that landfill
since the landfill sits right in the backyard of Southeast Den. So with that, I do suggest
that other people support it because I know I live in District 4, and I know that I'm
kind of up against my own best interests, but my mom, right? So I definitely think that
you should support it to help those in Southeast Den to be in control of that landfill over
them. All right. I yield my time.
Thank you. And Mr. Willie Hutzmith.
Mayor and city councilman, my name is Willie Hutzmith. I live at 623 Newton.
The Beck plan is basically for Beck, not for me. It's not for me. It's not for my community.
It never will be. It's Beck. Now what it is going to get, like the other gentleman stated,
are you just asking to be removed from the city council? Cause I promise you I will work
as hard as I can get you off of this council. Here's the reason, not that I'm for any other
community. You have no respect in your vote. You and our President District 1, you have
no respect for what we want. You don't even come over there. Tell me where it is. What
street is Martin Luther King on? Who are those women underneath the railroad
trestle? What'd they do? Where does the mayor live? And why is that relevant? You know absolutely
nothing about our community. Where is Fred Moore's school? And what's the makeup of
the school? Who am I? Scratch that. You don't know anything about us. But yet you came up
with a plan. After this, and I don't know why the other people are supporting you. I
haven't heard. I don't know. But every Tuesday, I'm calling that political day. And I'm gonna
start raising up some of these issues and asking you what happens on January 1st, January
15th. What is celebrated on that day other than Dr. King's birthday? What happens in
North and Southeast? I know you don't know. What is the big effort we have working over
in that community about that big old block cement plant over by Morrison milling mills,
the big old cement block fence? What's the issue there? What do you have to say about
that issue? You don't know. How can you then tell me I'd be better served in a district
that has to do with the land field, the dump ground? Have you ever been able to smell that
place that you're saying we should represent? That's a disgrace to me. You're telling me
I don't mount for anything but a dump. Well, I'm gonna try to pass it on to you. I can
promise you I'll be here talking about what you feel about me. Thank you.
Thank you. And we have two white cards, both in opposition, that did not want to speak
but wanted to be registered, wanted their opposition registered. And that's the conclusion
of the speakers on this item. Questions for staff? Seeing none, I have a couple of questions.
I don't know who's going to answer. My first question is, did the proposed plan account
for Hunter Ranch and coal ranch developments? So, Mayor, we do have Bob Heath on the line
and I'll ask him if he can respond to your question. All right. Excuse me. The plan B
was drawn by Councilman Beck. And so as to what the motive and anticipation about development,
I think he would have to answer that. Okay. So staff can't and the consultant
can't answer a question about this map we're gonna vote on. Okay. Did plan B account for
the development of the 15 acres right next to the southeast neighborhood?
I believe we would have the same answer. Same answer. Okay. What changes were made to plan
B after the initial public hearing? Last week we had 27 speakers, several cards, so 40 people
alive. What changes were made to the plan and over staff's numbers, 160 emails, what?
There have been no changes to the plans. Even after the public hearing?
Even after the public hearing. Even after all that feedback?
We've had no changes. Okay. What changes were made in the plan at any
place? Like at any point since plan B has been presented, what changes have been made?
I'm not aware of any changes made to the plans after they've been initially discussed by
the council. Okay. What surveys do we can conduct citywide?
We heard like the comprehensive plan, we went out and did surveys and did those things across
the city. What surveys did we conduct as a city to inform the plan B design?
Well we did have an open comment period. We did not conduct any surveys on any of our
proposed plans. Got it. So the open comment plan last week?
Say that one more time, Mayor? The open comment portion last week?
The public hearing and the web form for comments. Got it. Okay.
So for the consultant, I asked this last week, just want to confirm. If you're, if the process
is to distribute the minority vote, if there is a particular segment of the city that has
a higher percentage of minorities, that would need to be reduced in order to execute that,
right? The highest percentage would have to come down to spread amongst other lower percentages.
Is that, is my understanding accurate of how that works?
Well, if one district is high, more highly populated than the ideal, that's going to
need to come down. The existing districts were in balance and the minority population
is generally distributed around the city and the various plans didn't change that significantly.
Okay. And then, but if you're going to, if the statement is to reduce the number, to
evenly distribute the number, you got to pull from the peak to level out the others. That's
just my understanding of how that works. For the total population, yes. Okay. But there
was no intention to evenly distribute the minority population. Ideally, it might be
more concentrated in one, but the actual distribution of people throughout the city makes that not
entirely possible. Right. But I'll represent to you that that's
a statement that was made. But either way, the other thing I have is, you sent me, does
staff have the map that you sent, and I don't know if you can pull it up, Ryan, that he
sent out, there was a response, the previous zoning map?
There were three of them that were sent out. The one I'm referencing would just be the
overview of before redistricting the last time. So what is that? 2000, 2001?
2001, that's correct. Yeah, that map. If you can pull that up.
Let me see if I can. And just while he's pulling it up, for the
consultant, please confirm that this, what Ryan's pulling up, had to be pre-approved
by the Justice Department. Is that correct? That's correct.
So when people say the previous map was gerrymandered, this is the first year we've not had to be
pre-approved by the Justice Department. This is the first redistricting that has not
been required to be pre-cleared. Right. So the map that we're about to adjust
was reviewed by the Justice Department. Am I tracking with you?
The 2011 map, now the one you have up is 2001. Right.
It was pre-approved. Also, the 2011 was pre-approved. This one will be the first one that that was
not a requirement on. Correct. So both were. Got it.
And then, and then just, so if you could, so I'm pulled, I have pulled up 20, 2001,
and South Ridge is in District 4, and Ryan, or someone help me, where is it currently?
It's in 4, Roberson is in 4 in this map? Yes.
Yep. And yeah, and we're proposing to do what?
Help me, help me understand the lineage here. Mayor, I can pull up plan B if you'd like
me to. Yeah, please.
Well, really the existing map is what I'd like to see.
The current map. The current map, okay.
Yes, please, sorry for the confusion. No problem.
The numbers run together on me. So plan A is in current districts.
Great. So, and that's perfect. Because this is what we start.
We start a trend of every 10 years flipping this neighborhood back and forth, and then
we wonder why people don't vote, or we wonder what the confusion is.
The confusion is, 10 years prior to this, it was over there.
This year, it's over here. Now we're proposing to put it back over there.
And where does that end? I know you can't answer that.
But for me, it's a concern. And so thank you very much.
That helps me. And then I'll just tell you, and I'll get
my comments out of the way so I don't have to speak again.
We are, moving this forward is so divisive, and everything I've heard talks about the
external appearance. So I'm going to jump to a conclusion that
I think is important. I'm going to vote against these divisive
descriptions that separate our city. Our city is a great city.
Our citizens at this level vote people in on their merits.
If you have a good candidate, they'll be here. If you have a bad candidate, they won't be
here. And I heard all these comments about looking
at the exterior. Well, look, my neighborhood, I'm surrounded
by habitat houses on every side. And I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I don't -- until my four-year-old graduates, and then maybe I'll consider Robeson.
But then look at what you're talking about. You're talking about -- we're talking negatively
about 55-year-old people, and plus, well, my dad's -- what are you, 56, dad?
You know what I mean? So there's -- we're talking about every part of the city, we have
people that live with their parents that are 55-plus, and now we're turning against them.
Now we're turning against amenities. Well, every amenity at Robeson Ranch is available
to the public. You can go out there and play golf.
You can go eat at the grill. You can go do all those things.
I do. You can.
>> Mr. Mayor, may I get a point of order, please?
>> I'm kind of confused as to whether -- where are we in? Are we in a question and answer,
or are we having second? So I know we're not in a discussion.
>> No.
>> So I'm trying to figure out where we are.
>> Yeah, as a chair, I'm discussing.
>> Okay.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> And then I'll say -- and then instead, going into this, so that I didn't have to
speak again later, but maybe that wasn't clear.
We talk about similarities, and that's a concern for me, because I ask all of you to think
about -- there's unintended consequences when you rally around that statement, and it hits
me at home, because when you leave this council chambers, and if you go right outside to go
to the parking lot to the right, walk by that mayor's wall, I have zero similarities to
anybody on that wall, if you're looking at the exterior. Zero. But here I sit, because
the city of Denton is awesome, the voters of Denton are awesome, and they do the right
thing. So be careful when you're talking about similarities and trying to make everyone look
the same, everyone group the same, because that has -- we've moved forward from there
in my estimation, and this is regressive. So for those reasons, and many more, and not
to mention, it's unprecedented. No public changes based on the amount of feedback we
received is egregious. Irrespective, I don't care who serves in the seat, we serve the
citizens of Denton, and even with the -- and I counted it, it's additional -- it's seven
to let's say four today, but overall 80% against redistricting, and to ignore the comments
of the citizens, the request of the majority of citizens, you just can't do it. You can't
do it from this seat, and so for me, that's a problem. So with that, I'm going to move
denial. And, Councilmember Davis? I'll second. Discussion? See no discussion? Well, Mayor
Fulton-Melter? Yeah. Public input has been very heavy, both for and against the proposal,
so I go to fundamentals. What map makes the most sense? And I haven't heard one person
yet explain why it ever made sense to attach a neighborhood to a district ten miles away
when a closely related neighborhood is right across the street. I hear cries, it's political.
The proposal makes a tougher electoral map for Councilmember McGuire and for Councilmember
Davis. I don't think it's rocket science to see that. But I cannot fathom what group
would supposedly have a common interest in making tougher maps for those two together.
The redistricting is about making a better map that allows more neighborhoods the ability
to express their will and den fairly. Map B is a better map. Councilmember Burt? Map
B is a better map, and this is why I do represent District 1. I am very, very proud to be sitting
in this seat. I do want to do the very best that I can for District 1 at all times. And
for District 1 particularly, I do want to note that no one's putting anyone in the landfill.
The landfill's not going anywhere. No one's not going anywhere. It's an imaginary psychological
brain space that you're thinking that someone wants to put you in a landfill. There's some
folks that lived on the south side, preserves of Pecan Creek up there off of Lakeview, Pecan
Creek area, the Carmel area. That area is broken up, and what we're trying to do is
to connect all of us together. And this imaginary line that's around the landfill does not do
anything but to connect us all so anyone that moves in that area, they'll know what district
they're in. Southeast Denton, I love you so much. I practically raised my kids in Southeast
Denton, and I've done a lot of work in Southeast Denton. I spent three years on the executive
board of the largest church over in Southeast Denton, so I had enough faith in me to do
that. There's not anything more than I want to do is to see Southeast Denton become the
very best that it could be. I don't think that moving this line, it's really an imaginary
line over across the landfill is going to put us in a position to say that, oh, they
want to just put the black people with the landfill. Those folks that live off Lakeview,
their homes are, I know, they got to be paying at least $500,000, $700,000, and they live
closer to the landfill. They're building a luxury apartment complex near the landfill
right on Spencer Road right now. Senior care, senior homes living on Spencer Road across
the street from the landfill, and all the other things that we care and love about in
District 1 are closer to the landfill than Southeast Denton. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't
do that. I'm just looking for a way to make sure that we're all connected in District
1, and I think that if we go with B, then that's going to prove that point, to be able
to do that. My intention is not to degrade or split up anyone like that. We're trying
to come together. Now, we're talking about the African-American folks, and leaving it
the way that it is, it just sounds like we want this legal segregation when we know that
African-American people live all over this city, especially on the southern part of District
1. I know that because you can easily go to Betty Meyers Middle School and the elementary
schools down there where those kids are required to go to school. That's Title I school that
way. There's a lot of minority folks in that school. I'm seeing, technically, that Title
I is connected to minority people, but it is in a lot of ways. So it doesn't have anything
to do with race. It has everything to do with collaboration and being together under one
umbrella. District 3, District 4, I've been listening the entire time. Dina wants to stay
where they are, and they've made it very, very clear that they want to stay where they
are. And you say, "Listen to the voters. Listen to the people. Listen to the people." Some
of you all think that you're the only people when we have 140,000 in this community and
every one of us have a voice. So I've listened to the people, and I've used some rationale
behind a decision that I'm going to make. And I think that it's very important that
we take the political out of it, take all of the emotion out of it, and just think about
the future. We're going to be growing exponentially here in the next 10 years. It's not going
to look the way that it looks. District 2 is going to be growing north, and District
3 is going to just be way on out there. Cole Hunter Ranch is coming, and they may not have
anything in common with Robertson Ranch and Robeson Ranch. So I appreciate all of the
dialogue, but I know how I will be voting for us, all of us together. Thank you.
- Council Member Davis.
- With respect to my colleagues, I have admired and defended so many of the decisions that
have been undertaken up here on this dais before. I have heard some of my colleagues
very eloquently defend the nonpartisan nature of this body. We've sat here together in rooms
full of a hundred people and more. We've taken flax and slings and arrows together, and we've
listened to public input together, and I have gone out and defended even votes I didn't
agree with personally, because I believe that they were votes undertaken sincerely and with
the best possible in mind for this city. What we're proposing to do tonight in adopting
Council Member Beck's plan is indefensible. The lesson from tonight will be clearly written
to anyone who wants to see it, anyone who wants to come back and watch ten years from
now when this map comes up for debate again. To the victor go the spoils. Much was made
of the fact that the county chair for the Denton County Republican Party was in the
room last week. And tonight, on Facebook, the Denton County Democrat Party Chair says,
"We currently hold a majority on the council. Please find out how and where you can testify
to keep it that way." Yes, Plan B does make my district potentially more difficult for
a conservative to win. District 4 more difficult for a progressive to win. This map isn't designed
for this moment. This map is designed for the moments going forward after 2023, after
2024. This map is clearly designed to cement a progressive majority on the city council
and to dilute more conservative votes in Robson Ranch. This is disappointing. It's disappointing
on a number of levels. One, because Council Member Meltzer asked why, how is this not
a better map than the one we have? That argument takes you to a point that maybe this map,
the Plan B map, has some advantages over the current map. The difference is the people
we've heard from, I've heard from over 250 people in an affected precinct who don't want
to move. The difference is the people we have heard from that do want them to move don't
live there. There's a difference between those two voices. Those two voices balance differently.
Someone who's affected and someone who's not. And when I push back just a little bit and
say, "Well, why would you like Robson Ranch not to be in your District 3? They're not
like us. They're not like us. They're different from us." That's appalling. You are not entitled
to a district that looks exactly like you. In fact, in Denton, what you're entitled
to is a diverse district, an aggressively moderate district, a fair district that anybody
toss up could win. I've been fighting for that with my Plan D since this process started.
First by talking about, "Well, maybe our districts are pretty good because look at what it gave
the progressive majority. Maybe our districts are pretty okay." That didn't fly. We wanted
to move Denia. There's about six people out there we've heard from who wanted to move.
So we did, and I proposed Plan D that moves Denia. We said, "Well, the last plan, this
is to fix gerrymandering because the last plan, the one pre-cleared by the Department
of Justice, was gerrymandered. Denia is in District 4 because they asked to be there.
Go back and watch the tape. Some of the same folks who are today coming to us asking to
be in District 3 asked 10 years ago to be in District 4. If you go back and look at
the maps they were considering, they rejected exactly the same finger, that's what they
called it, the little finger of District 2 coming down into downtown that Councilmember
Beck proposes. They rejected that. Why? Because the people who lived there didn't want to
do that. This idea that it was gerrymandered 10 years ago, no, it was changed because it
had 60% deviation in population. It had to change. It legally had to change. It's also
been proposed that that was done to dilute student voices. The person who moved approval
of that map 10 years ago was Jim Engelbrecht. Noted progressive, fantastic Councilmember.
He represented everybody in District 3, student or anybody else, renter or homeowner, anybody,
to the absolute best of his ability. He moved the vote that added Robeson Ranch to his district.
There was no gerrymandering 10 years ago. We're being told that this is to unite communities
of interest. This Plan B divides Southridge. It continues the divide in the Pecan neighborhood.
It continues the divide in the Oak Hickory Historic District. I read an editorial in
the Denton-Ricker Chronicle that said we ought to adopt a map that strengthens neighborhoods
in the city of Denton. That's why we ought to adopt Councilmember Beck's map. As example,
that author gave the Oak Hickory Historic District, which is not united in Councilmember
Beck's plan. That's a historic problem. I brought it up before. I brought it up when
I was running for office. My Plan D fixes that problem, that historic problem. It gives
that area, that historic area, a Councilmember. In fact, one that happened to grow up there.
But it gives them a Councilmember who can defend and fight for historic preservation.
We're being told that the new map is being done to lower the population deviation. Obviously,
my Plan D does a better job of that. We talked about those numbers before. And we are told
tonight that really what we ought to look for, what people want in my home district,
I heard from a constituent saying, they would like a Council that has their best interests
at heart. How can 250 people who might be older than y'all, might look different from
y'all, maybe live in a different kind of house, might have done a different line of work,
they might even vote differently than y'all. But how do those 250 people ever look back
at this dais and say anybody had their best interests at heart when they were moved against
their wishes, moved for a political purpose, to dilute their voice, to crack and pack,
to pack all the conservative votes into one district. Don't ask me, ask the Democrat Party
here. This is a move to cement a progressive majority on the Council. It is wrong. It's
partisan. It's not what we do. And I know that's the purpose because nobody even batted
an eye at the aggressively moderate compromise proposal that you had in front of you. If
it was about moving Denia, we'd be talking about Plan D. If it was about reuniting Pecan
Creek, we'd be talking about Plan D. But the lesson tonight is that to the victor, go to
spoils. Okay. Councilman Beck. A lot's been said tonight about my motive. That's excellent.
I appreciate y'all being telepathic and knowing what's in my head like that. The thing that
I want to point out and I pointed out in public and I pointed out on my website and I pointed
out in an ad nauseum post just recently is our guidelines do not have politics in them.
They have particular criteria and we all unanimously adopted those criteria. And I maximized those
criteria. And you can shake your head, Councillor Davis, and I appreciate that you disagree
and I will give you lots of credit for digging into the math. The only other person in this
room that has dug into the map and the math like I have is Councillor Davis. So many props
and credit to him. He dug in really hard. He educated himself about the map. He educated
himself about the precincts. Some of that he's had for years already being a native.
Some of that I had to dig in really hard only having been here 15 years. But our criteria
say we wanted to compact. Our criteria said we wanted to maintain minority ratios. Our
criteria said we wanted to maintain communities of interest. That's in our criteria. We adopted
it. Conservative, progressive, moderate, alike, we all unanimously adopted those criteria.
And I followed those criteria. And I'm sorry that a lot of people think this is for politics.
It was not in our criteria. Red, blue, green, purple were not in our criteria. And so what
I did was look at the map, try to find especially mathematical relationships, distances to centers
of districts, minority ratios, compactness scores, and then follow a workflow that any
of you could replicate. Go get the software. It's free. Go replicate my workflow. You will
find you get no other math but mine. So part of the reason I'm coming off so heated is
my motives are being impugned over and over and over and over and over. I would stipulate
and suggest to you that if you are finding political bias in the results of on gerrymandering
and following apolitical boundaries that you are defaulting to the default characteristics
of the city of Denton. So having said that, I am not going to vote for the motion to deny.
If you want to see exactly my workflow, go to my website, come talk to me, email me.
I will go on for pages and pages and pages and pages exactly how I did every single move.
Councilor Davis proposes his map that we should pick plan B. I praise him a lot. He dug in.
He did the math. He did the homework. Nobody else did the homework or the math like the
two of us. But we were the only ones who made proposals. So what was his final proposal?
He took the North Lakes area. He took North Point. He took North Razor and he gave it
to D2. A precinct adjacent to the core of his district, a long traditional core precinct,
he gave it to D2. He separated North Razor from South Razor. I kept communities like
that together all over the map or I moved them intact together to balance the populations.
So you can accuse me of a lot of things, but none of these things that I'm being impugned
with are what happened. And I'm not going to sit still for that. So I won't be supporting
this motion.
Councilor Armitage?
Yeah, I won't be supporting it either. I want to thank Mayor Pro Tem Meltzer, Councilmember
Byrd and Councilmember Beck for their words. And I agree that it is wrong to impugn motive
to somebody when we're talking about maps. So pick the map you like best or whether you
want it to remain the same. And don't try to impugn motives to people. If you see gerrymandering
in a map, explain why. I want to address the issue of the charge that this map dilutes
Robeson Voting Block. It does not. Currently, the Robeson Voting Block acts as a diluting
force in District 3. It dilutes the votes of everybody else in D3. I'm not saying that
that was the intention. I have no idea. I don't care what the intention was of putting
Robeson there. That's the effect. We're looking at effects. So by moving Robeson into District
4 in which there are more communities of like interests, which as Councilmember Beck says,
this is a criteria that we agreed on, compactness and communities of interest. And these were
not kind of radical new original criteria that we invented as a council. They're actually
pretty standard. We all voted on it. This has the effect, as the gentleman in the front
row rightly noted, of making it difficult for Councilmember Maguire and any Councilmember
elected without the Robeson vote into this seat in District 4. So if the intention was
political as Councilmember Davis and others have charged, why would it have this effect?
So again, focus on the effects. Focus on the maps. Focus on the effects that they have,
not on what you think the motives might be. Everybody's welcome to imagine what they think
motives might be. But ultimately, you're not going to be living with motives. You're going
to be living with effects. And so looking at the criteria we voted on, which is pretty
standard and basic criteria, looking at these two maps. And by the way, and thank you, Councilmember
Beck, for not assigning any presumed motive to Councilmember Davis' map, other than him
just doing the work that you did in coming up with a different result. I see that and
I appreciate that. So anyway, with that, I am going to be supporting this map, Plan B,
and I will not support this motion.
Okay. Any other discussion? Motion denied by Mayor Hutsford, second by Councilmember
Davis. A vote on the screen. That motion fails 5-2. I'll take a motion. Councilmember Beck?
I motion to adopt my proposal. Councilmember McGuire? I second. Okay. We have a motion
by Councilmember Beck, second by Councilmember McGuire. Discussion? Seeing none, Lillian,
I think you deserve an answer and no, I was not one of those that saw the map in advance
and agreed to it. I hope others will get back to you and answer your question. Councilmember
Armitage.
Oh, thank you, Mayor, for reminding me of that question that came earlier. Yeah, I did
not see this map until it was sent to us and everyone on Council by email from staff. Any
discussion I've had about this map or any of these maps have been public right here
on the dais. So Mayor, just be careful of your wording when you say you are not part
of the group. I am not aware of any such group.
Well, you should conduct open records request. I'm aware and there's a group. So there's
a reason she asked the question. She's pretty wise. So just because you don't know about
it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And so thank you for the word to the wise, but I'm confident
in my answer. If you did open records request, she would join me. Anyone else? Okay. Then
motion by Councilmember back to approve second by Councilmember wireless vote on the screen.
That passes 5 to next item is item D, which is ID 212634. Consider adoption of ordinance
of the city of Denton, amending the provisions of the charters or primary chapter six of
the code of ordinances.
Good evening, Mayor, Councilmembers and Nicole higher animal services supervisor. I'm here
to discuss and seek direction. Sorry. Thank you. That better will do. This is Nicole's
first time to present to city council. So excited to be here tonight. So my name is
Nicole Hiram, the animal services supervisor, and I'm here to discuss and seek direction
on the amendment to our dangerous animal ordinance. Our current regulations on our dangerous animal
ordinance is as follows. The complaintant or victim of a bite or attack files a written
complaint with the animal services department within 30 days of the bite. Once we receive
a complaint, we initiate an investigation to determine if there exists probable cause
to believe that the attack did occur and that the criteria is met for a dangerous dog case.
Once that's been established, we will issue an order of impoundment for the dog and the
dog will be impounded. Once the dog is impounded, a determination hearing will take place before
the municipal court judge and the judge will determine whether or not the dog is dangerous.
Once the dog is deemed dangerous by the judge, he will issue an order of disposition of the
dangerous dog. The dog will remain impounded with animal services until such time the owner
is able to meet the requirements of that order. So currently the challenges that we face with
the ordinance that as it's written is that there are limited or unclear definitions.
The complaint filing period is extensive and has a limitation on who can file a complaint.
Currently our secure enclosure definitions and parameters lacks clarity specifically
in regards to whether a house or a dwelling can be used as a secure enclosure. There also
is an absence in any consequences for an owner failing to comply with the judge's final orders.
I would like to add that in the presentation that was sent out, there was an additional
bullet point that we removed for this presentation that was in response to an old draft of this
ordinance and is no longer applicable. So we looked at 15 different cities to review
ordinance language for dangerous dogs. There were three cities that we found that provided
useful ordinance language. Those cities include the town of Flower Mound, the city of Dallas
and the city of Fort Worth. So for our proposed changes we are clearly defining key terms
that are applicable throughout the ordinance. Those key terms include dangerous dog, serious
bodily injury and secure enclosure. We are decreasing the time frame to file a complaint
from 30 days to 10 days. This is to coincide with the state mandated 10 day quarantine
period for a bite and that allows us to remain in custody of the animal while that filing
complaint period takes place. We've also removed limitations as to who can file a complaint
and have expanded that anyone who has knowledge of the complaint or has witnessed the complaint
can file a complaint as well, including, sorry, an animal services officer. We've also added
language to allow for a dangerous dog registry and that registry will be kept in writing
at the animal services department. We've also added a failure to comply section that clearly
states processes and consequences for when an owner or dog is not compliant with the
final legal disposition. And with that I'd be happy to take any questions.
>> Questions for staff. Councilmember Davis. >> I'm generally really good with the changes.
I appreciate the effort to kind of clear things up, tighten things up and make it easier for
regular folks to read and navigate. I'm a little bit hesitant though on the dangerous
animal versus dangerous dog. I can't imagine that we've had many situations where a horse
or a goat or something is just out of control and has to be seized, you know, by the court.
But if something were to happen where there were a dangerous animal that does not fit
the definition of a dog, do we have some other area of the code that allows us to do something
similar or are we -- >> I don't believe so, but in our current ordinance,
dangerous animal is defined as a dog that makes an unprovoked attack. So we're actually
not changing that. We're just replacing that so there's less confusion.
>> Just kind of changing the verbiage to make more sense.
>> Yes, yes. Just changing animal to dog because our current ordinance does only allow for
dogs. >> Right. And I understand that state law
generally references dogs and not animals generally, but has there been an instance,
anybody's kind of recent memory, where we had to get involved with, you know, not for
welfare concerns, but for this kind of concern with any other kind of animal other than a
dog? >> Not generally. And anything that would
be of a concern would be like a larger type animal. And there exists state law as far
as dangerous wild animals such as tigers and stuff like that that will be covered under
state law. >> Sure. Thanks.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I had nearly the identical question as Councillor Davis. It's
bothered me for exactly the same reasons he articulated. So I don't want to revisit it.
I want to ask a follow-up. And that is I guess I didn't quite hear you. I mean, there's state
level dangerous canine laws. And our ordinance specifically covers dog. But are there any
coverages -- I mean, this is going to sound silly, but since Councillor Davis brought
it up, dangerous goats or horses or other non-exotics, I think we're talking -- I know
there are laws about exotics. So servile bites you, that's an exotic. Pork the pine bites
you, that's an exotic. But for domestic livestock, are there any coverages in either our ordinances
or the state that cover domestic livestock, not dogs?
So is that a gap in our coverage? Do we need to formulate a copy of this ordinance that's
dangerous animal? >> I don't -- Councilmember Bec, I'd like
to have Stephanie Berry come up here who's an attorney that works with us. I think we're
-- that's having an answer and trying to find a problem. But I don't think we've ever had
that issue. So I don't know that it's a gap. >> I've been here a while. I'm 55. Sorry.
We have -- as far as I know, never had a situation where we had an animal of that type attacking
a person or a dog. We've actually had some dangerous dogs attack livestock and even kill
livestock. If we had a need for that ordinance, it would need to be in a separate ordinance
because if you look at the dangerous dog requirements, it talks about microchipping, rabies. When
you take it on a walk, it has to be on a leash. But it's definitely geared towards your pet
that has gotten out and attacked a person or animal and all the requirements have to
do with. How do we -- if you're allowed to, if the magistrate finds that it's safe for
the community to put parameters on it, how do we maintain this dog in a safe way? And
it talks about the enclosure, the leash, microchipping, registering, rabies certificate, which wouldn't
really be applicable to a different type of animal, a horse, a goat. Not saying that couldn't
happen, but it would need to be a standalone ordinance from the dangerous dog.
>> But even higher than that, it's just basically that's the only predator that we keep in our
homes kind of argument. So we only need that kind of coverage.
>> Exactly. >> Fair enough. Thank you.
>> Councilmember Arbiter. >> I think Councilmember Rebecca is trying
to get prohibition of dangerous Debs in that ordinance, but he's being polite about it.
But anyway, as the one with dangerous in my name, and I haven't bitten anyone, but I have
heard lots of reports all over town that I am dangerous, I will gladly move in favor
of this, which is really a great revision of the ordinance. And it's -- of course I'm
joking, but of course, you know, dog attacks are no laughing matter. So thank you so much
to staff for doing the work on this and to our animal committee. Much appreciate your
work. >> Councilmember Beck.
>> I'm just seconding the motion that's on the floor from Councilmember Arbiter.
>> Okay. We have a motion by Councilmember Arbiter approved and a second by Councilmember
Beck. Any other discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the screen.
Passes 7-0, takes us to our last item. ID 212701, consider adoption of the ordinance
of the City of Denton, Texas, a home rule. Municipal corporation authorizing city manager
to execute a design/build agreement. >> Good evening, Mayor, City Council.
Mark Zimmer with DME engineering, here tonight to discuss your consideration of a contract
to design and construct the Hickory GIS substation. Back in 2014, DME identified the need to rebuild
the existing Hickory substation on a new site due to age, safety concerns and incompatibility
with a future CIP project and convert the station from 69KV operation to 138KV. In addition
to that, DME also determined that the existing site was too small for needed expansion to
serve future customers. So DME held public open houses to get citizen feedback on proposed
site locations. That feedback was provided to Council and the site chosen was across
the street from the existing substation. That site was purchased by DME back in 2015. The
appearance of the new site was of particular interest to Council back then. They directed
us to use an aesthetics committee to determine the appearance of the perimeter wall around
the station. The design of the wall is shown here on the slide and this is the design that's
included in the contract. In addition to that, Council directed us to convert all overhead
electric facilities around this substation from overhead to underground. That's also
included in the contract. This new substation will serve approximately 20% more customers
than the existing station and because we're using gas insulated switch gear, which was
also directed by Council, we can expand the site to serve 100% more additional 100% customers.
Because we can do that, that negates the need for the future EGLE substation until at least
2034. So DME prepared a request for qualifications to qualify firms capable of doing all aspects
of the project. Received seven qualifications. We evaluated those based on success, stability,
safety record and qualifications. After evaluating those, four firms were selected for the RFP,
which included a technical specification as prepared by Black and Veach, our owner's engineer.
After review of those four proposals, beta engineering was evaluated the highest and
was also the lowest cost and also due to the market instability right now due to the pandemic,
beta engineering's cost can only be guaranteed until January 14th of next year. So any delays
in awarding a contract could result in a higher contract cost. If awarded the contract, we
would issue a limited notice to proceed to beta next month with an anticipated completion
date of October 2024. Staff recommends approval of a contract with beta engineering for the
design and construction of the Hickory GI substation in an amount not to exceed $40,469,000.
Okay, thank you very much. Councilmember Armitage? Yeah, I don't have any questions for staff,
but I wanted to explain why I'm going to be voting the way I am on this, but if anyone
else has questions for staff, I'll let them speak before I make my statement. Councilmember
Davis? Thank you, Mayor, and I'll be really quick. General, very supportive. I appreciate
especially the work that's gone on and has been going on for years now to make sure that
this is appropriate for the location, architectural facade and all that kind of stuff. My question
is about the fact that we're kind of putting some things together so that we're not having
and the capacity of this substation means we won't have to have the other substation
until we won't need to meet that need at least until I think it was 2034. Is that right?
What happens in 2034? Because it's not all that far away. Of course, we'll re-evaluate
the situation at that point and come back to council. Could we be in a situation where
I know we're not having to do Eagle substation now because we're doing what we're doing
at this substation, are we going to find ourselves in a situation potentially where we do have
to do something else more in the UNT Collins Bernard kind of area in 2034? Yeah, so our
projection are based on the current load growth in the area. If things change, then of course
we would have to reassess the plan and we constantly, every year we evaluate the growth
in the city, determine what projects are needed. Of course, we would include that and get your
direction at that point. Okay, very good. Thank you. Councilor Armitage. Yeah, so I
appreciate all the work that's gone into this. I know that this is going to be much, much
safer than the substation that this is replacing. And I also appreciate the work that has gone
into making it more attractive. I know it's going to be more aesthetically pleasing than
the current one. So it's going to be a quality substation. But I am voting no because of
the location. I realize it's not the location that is up for debate. The location was decided
years before I got on council. But I just want to explain why, just very briefly. It
says here in the agenda information sheet that in 2014, in a closed meeting, DME presented
to council the sites being considered for the new Hickory substation with citizen feedback
from the public open house. Five sites were presented to council for consideration and
council directed DME to purchase this site now owned by the city at 2600 West Hickory
Street. This site had the least negative feedback from the public open house and impacted the
least number of homeowners. This site might very well impact the least number of homeowners,
but it does impact a great number of renters. It is in the place known by even those who
live in it as cement city, which is filled with renters of various kinds, not just students,
but families, seniors, people with disabilities. It is extremely diverse. You walk through
there, you can hear multiple languages being spoken. It's a wonderful slice of Denton
and it is pretty much exclusively renters who live there and renters are least likely
to go to these open houses and complain about their property values because they're just
trying to get by and parent. But it's a really great community and I don't think that a substation
should be so close to people. But I want to be clear that I think that if there does have
to be one, this is going to be a quality one and I know that a lot of concern has been
and attention is being paid to making it as safe as such a thing can be and as attractive
as such a thing can be. But I'm going to be voting no because I don't think it should
be so near to this community. >> May I have a question?
>> Thank you. I attended a lot of the public events around this back when it first came
up just as a neighbor and there were other locations that were considered that simply
would have affected more people, actually more renters, in that it would have displaced
them. This was actually kind of a distasteful location, I kind of disagree with the account
a bit, to the homeowners because it's adjacent to a stark neighborhood and it wouldn't look
like it would fit in. So the kind of compromise really was let's affect fewer people, which
also means it would cost less if you affect fewer people, and put some of that back into
making it look more appropriate for the area. And I actually served on that aesthetics committee
I think it was called. So I guess I know from my experience at that time the pluses and
minuses that were weighed. I appreciate the fact that now it's gas insulated. It's a significant
step up. And I'm going to be voting yes. >> Councillor MacBeth.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Are we generally considering these architectural features for
the borders? That seems to be people have given me feedback, seem real pro this, it
looks real architecturally cool, honestly. It hides it well for an industrial use in
the middle of the residential area. I know that not all of our substations need this
because a lot of them are kind of on the edges of things, but for those that are closer to
residential areas, is this going to be sort of a feature we carry forward in the future?
>> Not this time, unless we're directed by council. Only a feature substation we have
is under wooden, it's in the Hunter Cole Ranch area and it's going to be a traditional wall.
>> Any other discussion? Then I'll move approval. Mayor Portomelter.
>> I second. >> Motion by Mayor Hutsbeth, second by Mayor
Portomelter. Any other discussion? Seeing none, let's vote on the screen.
And that passes 6-1. That takes us to our concluding items. Thank you very much. Concluding
items, anyone? Seeing none, I have a few. Councilman Burke.
>> I'm sorry, we may be saying some of the same things. I am going to ask the southeast
Indian community, remind them that they have a southeast Indian community meeting. I'm
so excited to hear that. Mount Calvary Baptist Church, they're going to be coming together
tomorrow at 530. I'm very appreciative of Reverend Chambers for putting it together
so the folks over in that area can kind of keep up with what's going on, have an opportunity
to ask questions, and be proud of what's happening over there in that area. Also, Mayor, I'm
sure you'd want to say something about the American Legion Hall grand opening on Thursday.
Very excited to announce that. You may want to go into that a little bit more. But ten
o'clock on Lakey Street, the American Legion Hall senior hall is going to be coming back
online. So we're excited about that, but we're waiting a long time. So those are the two
things that I have. Thank you. >> Okay. Councilman Beck.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I want to remind folks in the north, the northeast end, that
the city will be giving a community outreach meeting about sidewalks, improvements around
Denny Schultz Elementary. They've got social media that you can hit. They've sent out letters
and more information is forthcoming. >> Mr. Mayor, I just have one question.
>> On December 16th. >> Ms. City Manager.
>> Mayor and Council, I want to wish you all a happy holiday from the staff here and hope
that you have a safe holiday, but also enjoy it with family and friends.
Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Mayor Pro Tem? >> Sorry. My responses are a little -- reflexes
are a little slow. Yeah, just back at your staff. Enjoy the break. Thank you so much
for all you've done this year. >> Okay. Anyone else? I retain my title as
a probably about 90% point of order guy. All comes here. So I'm excited about that. Excited
about the break in action. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy holidays. Again, staff, enjoy
your break in action. More seriously, Mr. Long -- so Carl Long is Keith Long, if you
know him from -- didn't hide days. Anyway, his father passed away, so my condolences
to them, the services of this week. As Councilmember Byrd alluded, the reopening of the American
Legion Hall is 10 o'clock on Thursday. That's going to be great. It's open at 8, so you
can stop by early if you want. Then I want my -- I just want to make sure those that
are affected that, you know, as if they could hear, but just want to reach out to them in
spirit and say those affected by the tornadoes, they're top of mind, and I hope they get the
services they need, and it's tough. No electricity, loss of life, et cetera, et cetera, but continue
to be amazed at the amount of people leaving Texas, going to help, and so that's what we
do. And then the two new art pieces are fantastic. If you've not seen those, they're at Industrial
Street -- Industrial Park there, and the bench people at the MLK. I'd encourage you to go
see those. Absolutely phenomenal. And recognize some healing, which is always important to
remember from a community standpoint. And then two last things. One, Guyar High School's
head of the state, so I want to wish them well as they go Saturday. All the best to
them. I'd be out there to send you off, but you're on Teasley Drive and traffic is terrible.
So I'll do it from my house, but I'll be with you in spirit. And then a buddy of mine, he's
a quarterback at Ryan High School. He goes by K-5. Kalon Davis is an amazing kid. Ryan
High School had a great year. He worked so hard and so -- and a great family. So I want
to just give a shout out to him on a great year, the rest of the team, and just what
an amazing kid. Looking forward to what they're going to do next year. With that, at 824,
we'll conclude tonight's meeting.