1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,120 all right it is nine o'clock and we have a quorum so we'll call to order the 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:12,320 December 13th 2021 City of Denton Public Utilities Board meeting the first item 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:20,600 is the public comment does anybody here wish to make public comment how about on 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:31,300 the phone anybody on the phone no all right and we'll go into the regular 5 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:36,880 meeting the first item is the consent agenda with items a through s I'm gonna 6 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,680 call pull item M does any other board member wish to pull an item yes mr. beth 7 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:57,640 okay I'll go with mr. Rybeck I'm interested in looking at item F and H 8 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:11,240 and H and mr. jumper item E okay that was E as in Evan right and a question 9 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:24,400 about J okay and then is that it all right so do we have a motion to approve 10 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:42,480 items A B C D G I L N O P Q R and S okay mr. jumper moved and Barbie second all 11 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:52,040 in favor say aye aye carries okay the first item then is item E so I think 12 00:01:52,040 --> 00:02:02,960 that's Krista would you come out there she is madam chair board members what 13 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,520 questions can I answer related to item yeah so I was curious I think this is a 14 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:14,240 neat idea actually I was curious what what prompted the need or desire for 15 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,040 anything like that the virtual teller yes I'm sorry you know the virtual 16 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,760 teller unit is something that even pre-pandemic I had already had kind of 17 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:29,440 on my agenda and had started developing with ad comp prior to you know there's 18 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,680 been a desire for customer service to have kind of an outreach center where 19 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,120 people don't have to come all the way to City Hall East to conduct their 20 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,240 face-to-face business and this is something that we felt like would be a 21 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,720 reasonable measure of being able to provide service to the citizens as 22 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,000 opposed to the citizen coming to us so we'll be piloting it it's actually ready 23 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,400 for launch we're just waiting on a little bit of construction if you've 24 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,080 been in the City Hall East Lobby the acoustics are great if you want to stand 25 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,160 in there and sing but not so much if you want to stand in there and talk about 26 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:07,640 business so we're building in a little sound area so that we can install it as 27 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:11,640 long as we get some good public adoption then we want to be able to expand that 28 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:16,720 to maybe the UNT campus look at some overlays to see what customers are coming 29 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,880 into the lobby what parts of town need to be best served by doing something 30 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,720 with an outpost and then I was curious currently do you know kind of the 31 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,760 percentage the breakdown of how many folks do business online versus coming in 32 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,320 person versus on the phone anything like that you know I haven't looked at them 33 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,880 recently because we've had so much going on I don't know if you've noticed it's 34 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,440 very busy initiative wise and customer service currently that we usually only 35 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:48,520 have a 10% or less of our customers who come in and do their business so it's 36 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,360 very difficult sometimes for us to keep those two lobby windows open all the 37 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,680 time when we have callers you know on the phone that are holding for no 38 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,920 longer periods of time but we're hoping that with this particular initiative 39 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,640 once we get it moved out that we'll actually be able to expand so as long as 40 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:10,080 you're not making a cash payment if you need to present that alternative ID like 41 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,280 a foreign student that you can actually do that from your phone or PC and still 42 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,840 do that virtual interaction from your home or wherever you happen to be as 43 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:24,180 long as you're not doing a cash payment so we're hoping to expand this okay so 44 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:28,920 this new kiosk would be at your current facility currently it will be at the 45 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,900 facility I will still have our standard kiosk available outdoors to just do 46 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:37,960 their traditional kiosk business but inside the lobby if there's a line 47 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,360 waiting or even if there's not a customer can go to that virtual teller 48 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,280 and conduct their business present their IDs scan documents whatever business 49 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:50,160 they need to take care of so you consider this a pilot project then this 50 00:04:50,160 --> 00:05:00,080 is a pilot project thank you yeah other questions do we have a motion to approve 51 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:07,120 okay mr. Rybex move moving and mr. Beck is seconding all in favor say aye aye 52 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:18,280 thank you very much item F that was you right Lee that was your item F okay so 53 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:24,280 we have a Daniel Kramer with our Street Department here good morning 54 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:31,160 Dana Kramer deputy director of operations question this particular 55 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,960 contract not to exceed 2.6 million dollars from construction material 56 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,320 testing and geotechnical investigation services is rather broad could you give 57 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,920 us a little bit more information about what these folks be doing for you yes 58 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,640 sir Street Department is the one that actually kicked off this contract what 59 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,560 we use that for is our lime series test and our subgrade tests so we know how 60 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:01,120 much lime and mix to put into the street when we're rebuilding the street we also 61 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,060 use it for density testing compaction testing which is what utilities use it a 62 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:09,800 lot for for the ditch lines and everything we'll use it for density to 63 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,440 make sure we've met the 95 percent compaction before we can patch the road 64 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,420 it'll also be used by DME which a lot of times we'll use that when they're 65 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:22,240 installing the poles and stuff like that same thing with the compaction testing so 66 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,880 this is just an on-call contract so that we can keep our construction operations 67 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,840 moving throughout the years is this a firm we've been working with previously 68 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:39,160 no sir we we originally had G consulting which is the one that had it for the last 69 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,400 one I think it was a three year if I'm not mistaken was the last terms on that 70 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,960 contract all right so this is a new firm providing services that another firm had 71 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:54,920 been providing and this is a not to exceed amount over the five-year period 72 00:06:54,920 --> 00:07:02,680 basically on a time of material basis thank you all right any other questions 73 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:09,680 do we have a motion to approve mr. Ibex motion second and second all 74 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:19,680 favor say aye thank you item H that was also you rightly yes okay 75 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:29,440 good morning good morning board madam chairman my name is Jerry Fielder I am 76 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,440 the division engineering manager for didn't municipal electric I haven't in 77 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,360 here with me Aaron Binion who's the project manager for this project as well 78 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,000 as the engineering firm and we can go through a formal presentation or just 79 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,920 answer any questions that you may have I'll see you are going to give us a 80 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,120 formal presentation on this or you can no we can you want to go ahead and see 81 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,720 that if it's all right with sure chairwoman I'd be very interested in 82 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,360 seeing that yes yeah thank you 83 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:08,360 good morning give me just a moment to get this set up 84 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:34,400 I think it's being shared says that we are sharing all right I think we figured 85 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,320 out the technology so again thank you for letting me be here my name is Aaron 86 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,080 Benyon I'm an engineer with that municipal electric and today we'll just 87 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:49,560 present a little bit on our new line extension policy so up to this point the 88 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:54,320 line extension go ahead Madam Chair I would wonder if the speaker could take 89 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,200 his mask off I'm having a little trouble understanding him thank you thank you 90 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:05,480 I've often been told I've got a quiet engineers voice my apologies all right so 91 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,200 our current line extension policies are contained in the electric service 92 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,600 standards these standards have been around since at least 2014 the latest 93 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,200 version was approved in 2014 and there really haven't been any changes since 94 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:26,040 then these standards include both technical requirements as well as policy 95 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:32,040 relating to new developments extensions and developer and DME 96 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:39,120 responsibilities now there is a need to update them and so DME has proposed that 97 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,320 we split them out into a revised electric service standards that would 98 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,240 focus on the technical requirements that ensure that developers and DME are 99 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,920 following the applicable codes and the line extension policy would govern the 100 00:09:52,920 --> 00:10:02,120 customer aid and construction contributions now the current line 101 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,080 extension policy that's contained in the ESS is really a one-size-fits-all 102 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:12,920 approach it's based on distance and so any extension up to 300 feet is covered 103 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:22,400 by DME and by extension the rate payers and so there's a wide variety of costs 104 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,760 that can be incurred in that mostly depending on what type of service is 105 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,760 currently available what type of customer loads are coming and so it 106 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,880 really leaves things pretty open for for what that can cost the existing rate 107 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,480 payers developers are also responsible for the civil work and DME provides 108 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:47,000 certain materials like conduit and pads for various pad mounted equipment 109 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,080 developers depending on the length of the extension they may pay none of the 110 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,880 cost or they may pay some beyond that 300 foot distance and DME covers the 111 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:02,960 rest our proposed policy would be that within the single certified areas of the 112 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:10,920 city developers would pay the full cost of any line extensions to them now DME 113 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:17,520 does have multi certified areas that we share with other electric service 114 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,840 providers so encore and co-serve in those areas we propose that credit be 115 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:28,440 given based on a projected rate of return and that allows us to provide an 116 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,640 economic development incentive and basically stay competitive with some of 117 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,640 the other developers go ahead thank you I'm wondering when you say multi service 118 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:44,520 area so is DME essentially bidding if you will on the future service of these 119 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,800 developments to an extent yes when it when a new developer comes in they have 120 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,080 a choice in these areas they could choose whether they would like to have 121 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,120 DME co-serve or encore encore depending on the area serve them and one of the 122 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,120 challenges that comes with that is the first one to serve a development 123 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,160 generally takes the whole thing because of the costs associated with trying to 124 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:12,160 get additional services from another provider in there so does this still 125 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:19,280 give DME the flexibility to work with the developers on projects even though 126 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,680 we have this new standard that's being proposed yes yes it does thank you 127 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:27,800 mr. Rebecca the one thing I'll tell you is the main cases in these multi 128 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,080 certified areas developers are already being incentivized by the city through 129 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,880 other economic development incentives and so then additionally they they can 130 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,920 either walk away from DME or request additional incentives and so there's 131 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,120 double and triple dipping that occurs from time to time with those 132 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,680 development I think this helps us kind of equalize that and at the same time 133 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,280 helps us address some of the some of the cost perspective cost issues that we're 134 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,480 having at DME and that we're trying to address yes it does appear that these 135 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:02,160 new policies are give you a little better structure in your program but I 136 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,560 was running if it's also taking away the flexibility to negotiate so that's my 137 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:14,080 question okay sorry did you have a question go ahead 138 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:24,200 thank you chair so I'm really conflicted on only incentivizing only giving an ROI 139 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,880 based discount in the fringe areas of the city like if you don't know if you 140 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:36,360 have a map in your slide deck let me skip down to that yeah so everything 141 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,120 blue would not receive the incentive that had to cover full full cost of 142 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,680 construction where if you're building a subdivision in the red area out west 143 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:53,040 you're going to get ROI you know an ROI based value on your development 144 00:13:53,040 --> 00:14:00,540 mm-hmm so it will cost more to build closer to who to develop closer to the 145 00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:10,320 city center I'm curious what encore and co-serve what their policies are on 146 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,480 their single service areas and their multiple their competitive areas do you 147 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:21,520 know that so as part of the presentation we actually do cover what encore and 148 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,800 co-serve do if it's okay we can jump back to that and work through that okay 149 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:36,080 excellent okay so we're we're almost there all right just a couple of 150 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,540 additional items on the proposed policy is that developers would be responsible 151 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:44,920 for civil work as they had been but also that they would provide some of the 152 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,940 materials that we've previously been providing and what that does is allow 153 00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:52,720 them a little bit more flexibility they're not completely dependent on DME 154 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:58,600 providing all of these materials and it frees up our warehouse and and others 155 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:04,080 from being the the sole point of contact sometimes that becomes a bottleneck and 156 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,280 again down at the bottom it just states that we we would expect them to cover 157 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:15,320 the full cost of the extension except for competitive credits in those areas so 158 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,680 the question is then what do other utilities do these aid and construction 159 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,920 fees are a standard in the electric utility industry we've worked together 160 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,520 with the consultants and gathered research on what several other utilities 161 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:37,580 do some credit is given in various forms throughout the state of Texas and so you 162 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:44,040 can see examples of what other energy providers use some base it on the fixed 163 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:50,380 distance like DME has up to this point some use a fixed allowance a dollar 164 00:15:50,380 --> 00:15:56,360 amount where once it exceeds that they're responsible for it others have a 165 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,720 formulaic approach that again is tied to something like a return on investment 166 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,360 or other formula that they've developed and then there are some utilities like 167 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:12,440 Austin Electric and Garland that they give no credit the the developers are 168 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,720 expected to pay for the entire cost so it's really across the board as you can 169 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,960 see Encore and CoServe use both the fixed distance and the formulaic 170 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,600 approach and and then you have others that say you know what the developers 171 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,920 can can cover the cost if they want to bring in do they have a split policy 172 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:39,880 between single serve and duly certified areas I don't believe that they do it's 173 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:46,240 it's across the board if you don't mind I can ensure that I used to work for 174 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,760 CoServe and the policy is typically you're going to get the service no 175 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,800 matter what it takes and so they do have in the rate manual some degree of 176 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,920 allowance associated with stuff but if it's a development like we're talking 177 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,240 about in our multi certified errors they know full well they're going to be in 178 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,360 competition with Encore or DME and they'll do what they need to do from an 179 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:12,000 economic standpoint also to get service to that development so it's really kind 180 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,600 of putting us on the same playing field as the other two competitors that we 181 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:23,280 have thank you yeah sorry board member I think the difference here is that DME as 182 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,720 an MOU has single certified area and multi certified area but co-ops and 183 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,840 IOUs or investor on utilities do not they are in a fully competitive 184 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:38,360 environment so there is no single certified area for them I'm fairly 185 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:43,240 certain that CoServe has single certified areas north of town in Cook 186 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,920 County and I know Encore definitely has single certified areas across the state 187 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:54,720 but this I don't have a problem with our new formula what I what I'm concerned 188 00:17:54,720 --> 00:18:01,120 about is if you're in our monopoly zone we're going to charge you more if you're 189 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:08,040 across the line we're going to you know provide a discount or we're going to 190 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,560 take into you know and we're not providing a discount necessarily we're 191 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,100 taking into consideration the ROI on this infrastructure it's gonna cost a 192 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:18,760 million dollars to build it but we're going to get back line service fees over 193 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,800 the next 20 years half a million dollars therefore we're only going to charge you 194 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,560 half the cost right well it costs a million dollars to build a develop the 195 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,480 same service in the blue area we're gonna get back half a million dollars in 196 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:37,600 you know future you know line service fees so why would we not also give the 197 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:45,560 ROI consideration inside of our single service area and that's like I said 198 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,800 I otherwise I think the competitive nature I understand the competitive 199 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,720 nature multi-service areas and we don't want to be at a disadvantage we don't 200 00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:04,000 want to bankrupt DME trying to compete but we but in like the split between our 201 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,600 service area and the competitive service areas where I have concerns I think the 202 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,520 the question and if I understand correctly you can you can validate this 203 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,800 formula is whether it's equitable to the developers to have two different rate 204 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:24,560 possibilities or I'm sorry not rates but credit possibilities or from the 205 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:30,840 flip side it's DME and the existing rate base and so really the goal is to 206 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,440 minimize cross-subsidization anytime we do give a credit we're actually 207 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,160 shouldering the burden on the existing rate pairs and so the goal that we're 208 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,160 striving for is the most equitable to the to the existing rate base and now to 209 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,760 be competitive there are times when when maybe we do have to give some credit to 210 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,600 the developers but in general we've seen a consistent desire to come to Denton to 211 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,200 build here and so there's less of a concern of driving away business and 212 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,800 it's more of trying to provide an equitable base for the existing existing 213 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:22,720 rate pairs thank you okay any any other questions okay I'll continue again along 214 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,400 those same lines we just clarify a little bit of the differences between 215 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,160 the single certified territory and the multi certified territory so as as 216 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:36,520 mentioned before the new customers pay a hundred percent the the goal was to ease 217 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:42,400 the burden on the existing rate pairs and and it's not unheard of to do this 218 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,120 there are several other large municipally owned coops that I'm sorry 219 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:52,460 not co-ops municipally owned providers that that do the same the multi 220 00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:58,840 certified territory the focus was on a formulaic approach finding the best way 221 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,360 to provide an incentive and yet still have a reasonable return on investment 222 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:10,840 this allows us to be competitive the residential development credit is 223 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:16,760 slightly different in that the data for that it's it's really a wide range of 224 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,960 what a residential development could require and so we looked at the data 225 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,600 from the last five years and we were able to average out the cost per 226 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,600 residents of extending to a to a home in a new development so that's where that 227 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,680 came from but with the caveat kind of to what mr. Rybeck was asking before 228 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,480 there is flexibility if we need to adjust that based on the formula we we 229 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:44,480 can but that's a starting place for us and commercial and industrial credits 230 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:56,320 will be calculated using the formula okay so the requested action is that the 231 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:01,200 council I'm sorry not the council but the board recommend approval of the new 232 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:09,600 line extension policy oops and also open it up to questions 233 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,240 mr. Rybeck go ahead I see you turned your light on finally got it to come on 234 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:22,000 okay so this new policy is one that you guys have obviously work with the 235 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,680 utility to put together and really all you're looking for is for us to 236 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,440 recommend it on to council it eventually will have to be approved by the council 237 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:37,760 so I guess you weren't entirely wrong in your presentation I don't really have 238 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,720 any other questions about it I appreciate that you came today to 239 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,800 provide us with this information and a little more background on it like a 240 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,880 little surprised when I got the email took a look at it and said well what are 241 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,520 we looking at here I think it was appropriate to pull it out from the 242 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,000 consent agenda for us to have a better look at it so thank you I have no 243 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:04,480 further questions just a comment I think if you look at this as a whole it may 244 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,280 not be totally fair to a developer that's building inside the single 245 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,720 certified versus outside the certified but the end the end result is it is more 246 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:22,440 fair for the rate payers the overall rate payers all right no other questions 247 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,560 do we have a motion to approve mr. Rybeck's motioning do we have a second 248 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:38,560 oh mr. Beck all in favor say aye opposed so that was very fast I think I will say 249 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:46,600 yeah actually okay okay I saw you were thinking so that was off all seven days 250 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:56,360 correct all right thank you thank you very much okay the next item is J and I 251 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:03,920 don't remember who pulled J oh I just had a question do we still have a city 252 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,640 engineer 253 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:15,720 or is J pre-qualified engineering firms thank you so Barbara the answer the 254 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:21,080 answer is yes Becky Davini is is our city engineer this particular item is for 255 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,080 engineering services at DME specifically which DME handled separately well I know 256 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:35,080 you're doing a considerable amount of work and I just had wasn't aware if we 257 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,120 still had one with there was one on staff and now there are more yes ma'am 258 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:45,760 Becky Davini is our city engineer okay thank you that was it okay do we have a 259 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,280 motion to approve so he's moving and Barbara's seconding all in favor say aye 260 00:24:51,280 --> 00:25:05,680 aye any nays no okay item K item J yes 261 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:17,040 okay now is item K thank you again Jerry Fielder division engineering manager for 262 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,160 DME about mr. Doug Brion he was an engineering supervisor that will speak 263 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:30,560 to you guys about the young dry auger billing thank you thank you I'm Doug 264 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,280 Brion engineering supervisor for DME and just answer any questions you have yes 265 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,360 sir I was have a question about this contract similar to the other one the 266 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,240 this is for the directional drilling appears to be for all three departments 267 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,080 of the utility so is this a new contractor that we're working with this 268 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,520 is a contractor that we've worked with before in the past but we had a contract 269 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,000 that expired a couple years ago and had not been renewed for this time so yes we 270 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,960 have worked with him okay so this is somebody we had worked with before but 271 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,520 this is a new contract going forward again time of material not to exceed a 272 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,880 given amount that's correct thank you that's really my only question okay 273 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:19,720 I'm sorry mr. jumper you have a question we have a motion to approve mr. Beck is 274 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:28,040 motioning second please seconding all in favor say aye aye opposed all right item 275 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:39,080 M we really don't have a question but mr. cheek had to recuse himself because 276 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:48,400 his company bid on it so motion to approve so moved all right in a second 277 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:55,600 okay mr. Beck's seconding all in favor say aye aye Billy recuses himself all 278 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:21,880 right I'll go I'll go you're welcome okay the next item is a recommend approval 279 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:28,640 of the November 8th minutes I did notice that there was an error on item E we had 280 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,200 board member Russell approving and she wasn't there so that item has been 281 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:40,480 changed and for my signature were there any other changes okay do we have a 282 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:48,840 motion to approve those with the correction Billy moves second Devin all 283 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:58,240 in favor say aye aye okay next item item B the design build agreement for the 284 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,080 Hickory gas insulated substation an amount of forty million four hundred and 285 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,040 sixty nine thousand dollars good morning count Phoebe Mark Zimmer DME 286 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:28,200 engineering excuse me sir while you're queuing up would you mind taking your 287 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:39,320 mask off so we can understand you a little better thank you yes sir we're 288 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,680 here this morning for your consideration of a contract to design and construct 289 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:50,080 the Hickory GIS substation so back in 2014 DME identified the need to rebuild 290 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,700 the existing Hickory substation due to age safety concerns and incompatibility 291 00:28:55,700 --> 00:29:01,520 with future CFP projects to convert the station from 69 KV operation to 138 KB 292 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:07,480 operation in addition DME determined that the existing site is not large 293 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,120 enough for needed expansion to serve additional customers and load in the 294 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,540 area so DME held public open houses to get citizen feedback on new substation 295 00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:21,560 sites that feedback was provided to council and council ultimately chose the 296 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,000 site directly across the street from the existing substation that site was 297 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:33,220 purchased by DME in 2015 the appearance of the new Hickory GIS substation was 298 00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:37,840 some some importance to see council council directed us to use an aesthetics 299 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,480 committee to determine the appearance of the perimeter wall around the 300 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,240 substation the design that was chosen by the committee is shown here on this 301 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,920 slide that is the design that is included in the contract in addition to 302 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,520 that council directed us to convert the existing overhead electric facilities 303 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,100 around this project from overhead to underground that's also included in the 304 00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:03,520 contract the new Hickory GIS substation will serve approximately 20% more 305 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,340 customers than the existing substation and because we're using gas insulated 306 00:30:09,340 --> 00:30:14,080 switchgear on the site we're able to do a future expansion on the site to serve 307 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,160 an additional 100% more customers and because we can do that that negates the 308 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:27,040 need for Eagle substation until at least 2034 so DME prepared a request for 309 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,400 qualifications to qualify firms capable of performing all pieces of the project 310 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,160 we received seven responses and we evaluated them based on qualifications 311 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,960 proven success stability and safety record after evaluation we chose for 312 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,320 those firms to receive a request for proposals which included technical 313 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,720 specification as prepared by our owners engineering black and beach after 314 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,920 reviewing those we determined beta engineering was the highest overall 315 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,780 evaluated and was also the lowest cost and also due to the instability in the 316 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:04,080 market right now beta is only able to hold the cost on this project until 317 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,840 January 14th of next next year so any delays and awarding a contract could 318 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:17,360 result in a higher contract cost so if awarded we would issue a limited notice 319 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,900 to proceed in January and we would expect project completion by October of 320 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:29,920 2024 so staff recommends approval of a contract with beta engineering LLC for 321 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,240 design and construction of the Hickory GIS substation in an amount not to 322 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,840 exceed 40 million 469 thousand dollars any questions I like that last 323 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:51,840 parentheses yes yeah yeah good portion of goes in our teeth yeah could you 324 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,760 remind me the difference in cost on putting the structure around it I mean 325 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,160 I'm all in favor I know it's expensive for the perimeter wall yes yes sir the 326 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,320 perimeter wall is about six million dollars a typical wall is three four 327 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:12,680 hundred thousand so quite a bit more this is gonna be real pretty I was 328 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:18,120 curious you projected that you wouldn't need the eagle substation until 2034 329 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,640 curious how you arrived at that specific time frame and we used a projected load 330 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,320 growth we use a percentage load growth an annual load growth to determine when 331 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,520 the existing stations will need additional capacity and so based on that 332 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,480 because we can add to this new Hickory GIS substation we can add additional 333 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,040 transformers there to serve more loads how much additional capacity can you add 334 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:50,640 to the new facility current 50 NBA currently the way this new substation is 335 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,160 designed we will initially construct it with 50 NBA of capacity and then we can 336 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,280 add another 50 NBA onto that so you can essentially double the size of facility 337 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,520 thank you and that's because we're using the gas insulated switcher and what 338 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,080 approximately is the savings of pushing that project out how many millions that 339 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:20,080 was just approximately it was Jerry do you remember the numbers we've got the 340 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,040 number but I don't remember right off the top of my head we can certainly get 341 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:29,800 that to you guys just curious go ahead so we're going from above ground to 342 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:35,840 underground does that bring any complications in any way for any 343 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,840 maintenance or repairs anything like that all right so converting the 344 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,240 overhead facilities right around the project from overhead to underground is 345 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,160 of course more expensive those costs are included in the contract so that's one 346 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:53,240 one task typically you can't have failures and underground facilities and 347 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,360 that's accommodated for in the design so we include extra conduit and the 348 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:04,080 underground of banks to accommodate for that so that is one concern we also are 349 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,520 designing the project where those underground facilities would not limit 350 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,920 the rating of the station in any way those are some of the things you can 351 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:18,160 consider when designing those facilities okay this is the first gas insulated 352 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:25,240 this may be me are there any issues with groundwater in the area since you're 353 00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:29,560 going underground yeah anytime we do a project in that and we seem to have 354 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,640 issues with groundwater typically when it's typically when we're doing a 355 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,320 transmission line design or we're digging a really deep hole we have that 356 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,600 problem this project we don't anticipate the need but geotechnical 357 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,960 reports have been done on the site and are provided to this contractor so 358 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,320 they're aware of the site conditions so are you required to take any additional 359 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:54,560 steps such as dewatering or anything like that not not on the side no there's of 360 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,600 course drainage going to be installed inside the substation but no no 361 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:05,640 additional features thank you okay go ahead dinner thank you chair if you just 362 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,720 a few comments and then I have some questions I'm fairly new to the 363 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:13,360 Commission so just like to get a little bit more information or the board so I 364 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,000 love the the breakdown of the competitive bids it's really fascinating 365 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,640 to see like some of the other bids are very competitive on the switchgear but 366 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,080 then an extra six or eight million on-site design an extra three or four 367 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,320 million on the wall suddenly they're no longer competitive and then just for my 368 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:37,040 own information not really pertaining to approving this the the underground 369 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,500 distribution out does that have to be gas insulated as well or no sir it's 370 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:46,920 just an underground duck bank just in conduit okay and and then in the 371 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:53,440 exhibits the mock-ups the photo mock-ups there appears to be one above ground 372 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,960 line still headed I think it's south I was like trying to tell in the picture 373 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,840 if there was one shown there that's probably just an error in the float 374 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,240 assimilation but right around the new substation side of all the underground 375 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:11,520 facilities and then and at some point does it so there's a line that runs 376 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,520 north to you know North Bonnie bray is that is it going to go like a thousand 377 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,840 feet underground and the transition above or so there's two different types 378 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,800 of facilities that will be converted to underground so there's overhead 379 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,680 transmission facilities and overhead distribution facilities the existing 380 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120 overhead transmission facilities were pretty much stay in the existing 381 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,480 alignment as they are they will convert from overhead to 382 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,000 underground be on the west side of the convenience store that's right beside 383 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,600 the existing substation and then all of the overhead distribution facilities 384 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,740 will all be converted within about a block around the site okay so then the 385 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:54,920 existing transmission line runs to the current site and then and that will I 386 00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:00,040 guess that will stay DME owned it'll just have no equipment just like go 387 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,120 underground or under them there'll be a what we call a riser structure that 388 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,640 converts the overhead line to underground right there around the old 389 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,480 hickory substation and the rest of that site will probably remain DME property 390 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,360 indefinitely the rest of that site we will demo the mall retire and demolish 391 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,640 the old station and that'll be done under a separate contract and are there 392 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:31,040 any cosmetic like fent like I know there's a lot of screening on this one 393 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:37,240 is there any plans for changing the aesthetic of the existing location not 394 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:48,440 this time okay thank you we just plan to remove it other questions okay seeing 395 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:54,620 none do we have a motion to approve this item Devin of motions so move I'll 396 00:37:54,620 --> 00:38:01,760 second and then seconds all in favor say aye aye opposed thank you thank you 397 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:09,360 it's been a long time in the making next item is management reports so madam 398 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,480 chair and board of so there's a few items that we've provided to you contracts 399 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,640 for some information on country for water and wastewater chemicals I think 400 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,280 Council Board member Taylor had requested a red line of the solid waste 401 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,200 criteria menu we've provided that to you as well and then also an update on the 402 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,600 leak adjustment policy that recently went to the council what I'll say with 403 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,240 with that one and also the chemical contracts certainly we endeavor to try 404 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,920 to bring everything to to the board prior to going to council though 405 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,320 obviously these did not were providing to you providing them to you kind of 406 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,200 retroactive I think as we move forward the council certainly talking about 407 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,880 going to a strict to meeting type of schedule and so we're certainly 408 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,800 reinforced with our staff to make sure that that they properly plan out their 409 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,880 items that they come to you before they go to the council so there's a couple 410 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,120 staff members here if you have any questions on items one two or three and 411 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,560 then finally on the new business section item again we just have a couple of 412 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,880 items that that we've had on here for a little bit of time and do plan to bring 413 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,640 those back to you obviously those were previously requested by you know mr. 414 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,680 self who's no longer on the board but we've still kept them on there the plan 415 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,400 is to still bring those back to you and we are working on that I just we just 416 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,480 want to keep them on there too as a reminder so happy to answer any questions 417 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,240 certainly the staff here if you have any questions on the other items mr. Beck 418 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:42,280 thank you I'd be glad to add my name to mr. sauce on the second item there if 419 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:50,840 that would help move it along okay very well thank you any other questions oh go 420 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,400 ahead thank you I just wanted to thank staff and mr. 421 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,880 Rangita for providing the the red line version of the solid waste manual I 422 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,200 notice there's a lot of red line the entire sections were completely 423 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,080 rewritten so there wasn't there wasn't a lot of detail to see in that red line 424 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:17,000 but I think it's solid waste has an interesting aspect where a lot of the 425 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,360 infrastructure is privately owned where all of the other utilities they're in 426 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,760 easements or they're in publicly owned streets if we want to change something 427 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,300 well we can change our rules and we can go back and retrofit potentially solid 428 00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:37,320 waste all of that pickup infrastructure is on private property and so if if the 429 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:43,120 design manual doesn't require it or allow it you know that that dictates how 430 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,520 decades of infrastructure are built in the city and we can't go back and say oh 431 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,960 now we want to use this other dumpster thing this other dumpster style and 432 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,920 without forcing ten or twenty or fifty thousand citizens to change their 433 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:03,680 property so I think that's a unique thing where the criteria manual reflects 434 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,680 a major portion of solid waste infrastructure that can't be changed in 435 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,400 the future so thank you for the detail 436 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:18,040 other questions all right that brings us to concluding items does any board 437 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,840 member wish to have something put on a future agenda or have any comments to 438 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:29,360 make to the public I see no I'll just wish everybody a Merry Christmas happy 439 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:38,040 holidays and healthy new year motion to adjourn adjourn we're adjourned