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Look around the room, we have a quorum of members.

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And so the work session is beginning at 4.02 PM on

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September 25th, 2017.

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The purpose of the work session is to clarify the agenda

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and

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to take up any other issues that may not be subject to the

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agenda that can be talked about.

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I wanted to bring up one thing before we started, and that

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is many of us have not been here for a while.

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And just so that everyone's clear as to kind of the concept

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of what we're doing, this is a variance board.

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And there are four criteria that we are able to look at in

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order to evaluate a variance.

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And I wanted to just briefly state what those are just for

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the record so everybody knew as well as we knew but

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everybody else knew.

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First is under Chapter 33, the commission, the board of

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adjustment must find in order to grant a variance that due

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to some unique condition or

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feature of the property, which is not generally common to

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other properties,

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literal compliance with the sign regulation would not cause

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unnecessary hardship.

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So that's one criteria.

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The granting of the variance will not violate the spirit or

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intent of the ordinance.

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That's criteria number two.

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The condition or feature which creates the need for the

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variance did not result from the property owner's acts.

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And finally, the board shall not grant a variance to any

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applicant solely for personal convenience,

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financial hardship, or other reasons unrelated to the

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property.

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The board grants a variance, the variance shall be granted

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only to the extent that it is reasonably necessary to

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remedy the hardship.

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The board may impose conditions relating to the use of the

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sign for which a variance is granted.

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So that's the four conditions for purposes of a signed

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ordinance variance.

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Okay?

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All right.

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So now back on, back on.

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Since we're in the work session, do any of the commission

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ers want to discuss or talk about any portion of the agenda

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this evening?

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Okay.

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Hearing no discussion points on the agenda, do I have a

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motion to conclude the work session?

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>> So moved.

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>> Motion made by Mr. Higgins, seconded by Mr. House.

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Any discussion?

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All in favor?

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>> Aye.

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>> Aye.

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>> Okay.

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Everyone is in favor.

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Now we're going to go ahead and open up the meeting, the

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regular meeting of the board of adjustment.

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Again, looking around, we have a quorum.

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So let's start with the pledge of allegiance.

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If everyone will stand.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

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America and

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to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,

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indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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Okay, now we're going to do the Texas flag.

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Honor the Texas flag.

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I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state, under God, one

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and indivisible.

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Okay, thank you all.

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>> All right, we're going to go to agenda item number two,

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which is consider approval of the Zoning Board of Adjust

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ment minutes for October 31st, 2016.

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Yes, ma'am, Ms. Briggle.

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>> I just have a question, I guess, about voting on this,

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obviously.

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New members wouldn't vote on the minutes since they were

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here, but should we break it up into two parts since you

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had excused yourself for the Denton ISD?

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But you're here for half, like how does that work?

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>> Hold on.

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>> Pardon. >> Your mic was not on.

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There's a little button. >> No, it's totally on.

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>> It's totally on. >> It's green.

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I can hear myself.

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>> Okay. >> Yeah.

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Should I say that again?

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>> Why don't we say it again?

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>> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am.

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>> All right, so obviously newer members wouldn't be voting

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on the minutes, but since you had excused yourself for the

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Denton ISD new building,

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do we need to vote on minutes in two separate parts,

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because your voice should be heard for the rest of the

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meeting, don't you think?

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>> I would go to legal on that.

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I've never heard of such a thing.

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I don't know that we can- >> I don't know, how does that

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work?

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>> Can do it either, but so I'm going to refer over to

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legal counsel on that.

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>> No, you don't need to break it up.

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You can do it as one.

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>> Okay. >> All right, great.

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>> All right, so has everyone had the opportunity to look

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at the October 31st, 2016 minutes?

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>> Yes.

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>> Do I have a motion?

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>> Aye.

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Make a motion to approve.

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>> The chair recognizes Mr. Chirot, who made a motion to

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approve.

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>> I'll second.

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>> I'll second.

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>> Chair recognizes Ms. Briggle, who seconds it.

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Any discussion?

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Hearing no discussion, all in favor?

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>> Aye.

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>> Aye.

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>> Okay, as well as myself, all has been in favor, and the

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motion carries.

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All right, we're going to go to the public hearings.

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First, I'd like to let everyone know if you have not

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submitted a comment card or a request to speak card.

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These are outside, and you may wish to do so in order to be

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able to speak or talk on the item.

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Generally speaking though, if a representative is here for

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an action item, we will recognize you as being here and

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allow you to speak, I believe.

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So we should be good.

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But there are cards if anybody wants to speak.

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Okay, we're going to take up ZBA 170003.

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Hold a public hearing and consider approval of a variance

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from chapter 33,

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signs and advertising devices of the code of ordinances.

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Specifically section 33.14.2 as it relates to the maximum

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allowed effective area and

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the number of allowed signs in a non-residential district.

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The variance requested is for a second monument sign with

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over 60 square feet of

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effective area on the east side of Mayhill Road,

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approximately 770 feet south of Colorado Boulevard.

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That is ZBA action number 17-003, Heart Hospital.

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And we're going to go ahead and have the staff present.

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>> Good afternoon, my name is Haley Zagorski, I'm a senior

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planner.

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And this, as you mentioned, is case ZBA 17-3 for the Heart

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Hospital.

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The request is to hold a public hearing and consider

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approval of a variance from

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chapter 33, signs and advertising devices of the code of

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ordinances.

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Specifically section 33.14.2 as it relates to the maximum

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allowed effective area and

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the number of allowed signs in a non-residential district.

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The site shown here on the map outlined in yellow is

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located at 2801 South Mayhill Road.

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A couple of features on the site I wanted to point out.

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There are currently two signs located along the frontage of

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Mayhill Road.

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Indicated in red is an approximately 59 square foot stone

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monument sign.

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It's located at the southwest corner of the property.

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And then on the northwest side of the property, there's an

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approximately 32 square foot aluminum sign.

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And up here where the blue stars is also the approximate

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location of the proposed sign.

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This property is zoned regional center commercial downtown.

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And a little bit of background on the site.

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The applicant indicated with their request that this new

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sign is necessary for

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them to comply with Texas Department of State Health

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Services requirements.

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As it relates to emergency entrances onto a property.

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The site currently has two access points.

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You can see here one on the north end of the property and

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then one on the south end.

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And currently they do have a sign located in close

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proximity to each of those entrances.

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This north entrance close to where they intend to put the

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new sign is closest to their emergency entrance for the

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facility.

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In case you haven't been to the property, here are photos

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of the two existing signs.

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Here is that stone sign that's located at the south end of

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the property.

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And then here is the existing sign that they intend to

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replace if this variance is granted.

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And this is located on that northwest corner of the

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property.

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To give you a little bit more detail about the sign that

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they are proposing to put on site.

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It would be an aluminum sign that's internally illuminated.

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The current sign in this location is not illuminated.

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The sign would be 14 feet, 10 inches tall, approximately 6

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feet wide.

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That's for a total effective area of about 89 square feet.

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It would be double sided, so these graphics that you see

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here would appear on both sides.

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And the prominent feature of it is this emergency entry

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design that's called out at the top.

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Just to give you a little bit more detail about where the

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sign is, I passed out a copy of this map before the meeting

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.

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Because I forgot to include it in your backup.

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It does show the exact location of where the sign would be

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in relation to existing utility easements that run along

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both frontages of the property here.

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So it would be nestled in between those two easements.

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So the variance request before you for this sign is two

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fold.

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The first aspect of the variance is for 29 square feet of

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excess effective area.

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The code allows for a maximum effective area of 60 square

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feet for ground signs located along arterial roads, which

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South Mayhill is a primary arterial.

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And the proposed sign is 89 square feet, so they're

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requesting 29 extra square feet above what's allowed by

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code.

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The second aspect of the variance is for a second sign on a

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property that has less than 500 square feet of frontage.

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Their lot has 477.6 feet of frontage on Mayhill Road.

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And according to the code, you are only allowed one ground

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sign on the property if you have less than 500 feet of

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frontage.

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So that existing second sign that they're proposing to

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replace is actually non-conforming to our current code.

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It was approved under a previous code and didn't need a

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variance at that time.

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In 2015 when we adopted the current sign ordinance, that

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ability to put that second sign back by right went away.

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I just wanted to point that out because I'm sure you're all

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wondering, well, how do they have one there now and they

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can't put one back in its place?

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So as we went over at the beginning of the meeting, these

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are the four criteria for approval of variance to the sign

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ordinance.

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And I'll go through these one by one as it relates to this

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request.

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So the first condition being due to some unique condition

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or feature of the property that is not generally common to

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other properties.

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Rural compliance with sign regulations would cause

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unnecessary hardship.

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As it relates to the second sign location, there is a

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physical limitation based on the length of the property.

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They only have 477 feet of frontage.

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Acquiring more would be probably unfeasible given the

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existing conditions and it being a platted lot.

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As it relates to the excess area that they've requested,

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staff did not identify any unique condition of the property

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that would generate the need for

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that extra area beyond the 60 square feet allowed.

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The second consideration is that the granting of the

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variance will not violate the spirit or intent of the

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ordinance.

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The intent of the sign ordinance is to balance the equally

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important but competing interest of free speech, public

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safety, and aesthetics of our community.

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This proposed sign wouldn't necessarily adversely impact

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any of those criteria.

263
00:12:25,879 --> 00:12:28,679
It wouldn't be creating new visual clutter because there's

264
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,159
already a sign in approximately the same location.

265
00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:34,240
And this sign is intended to increase public safety by more

266
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,120
clearly marking the emergency entrance for emergency

267
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,480
vehicles coming to the hospital.

268
00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:43,960
The third condition is that the condition or feature that

269
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,610
creates the need for the variance did not result from the

270
00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:48,039
property owners acts.

271
00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:50,840
With relation to this, I wanted to point out that the Hart

272
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,799
Hospital moved into this property in about 2014.

273
00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:56,980
It was already a developed site at that time, so they just

274
00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:57,440
moved in and

275
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,679
made some alterations to the existing building within the

276
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,120
existing platted lot.

277
00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:06,240
According to the applicant, the existing sign is needing to

278
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,190
be replaced in order for them to comply with state

279
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:10,039
regulations.

280
00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:12,259
So it's not necessarily something they've created for

281
00:13:12,259 --> 00:13:12,960
themselves.

282
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,279
And then our fourth consideration is that the board shall

283
00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:20,509
not grant a variance to any applicant solely for personal

284
00:13:20,509 --> 00:13:21,120
convenience,

285
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,970
financial hardship, or other reasons unrelated to the

286
00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:24,679
property.

287
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,289
And if the board does grant the variance, it be only to the

288
00:13:27,289 --> 00:13:30,000
extent reasonably necessary to remedy the hardship.

289
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,720
And the board may impose conditions relating to the use of

290
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,960
the sign for which the variance is granted.

291
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,190
I just want to reiterate again that the staff identified

292
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:43,399
that the lot dimensions do generate the need for that, or

293
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:45,649
contribute to the need for that second sign because they

294
00:13:45,649 --> 00:13:47,679
cannot add more frontage to their property.

295
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,730
Variance is the only means to acquire that second sign for

296
00:13:50,730 --> 00:13:52,159
their second entrance.

297
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:55,309
And based on the information that was presented, we did not

298
00:13:55,309 --> 00:13:57,879
identify any unique aspect of the property generating a

299
00:13:57,879 --> 00:13:59,960
need for the excess size that's been requested.

300
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,649
Given those considerations, staff is recommending approval

301
00:14:04,649 --> 00:14:06,000
of the request for

302
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,950
a second sign to be located along the frontage of Mayhill,

303
00:14:08,950 --> 00:14:11,720
replacing that existing sign that we saw earlier.

304
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,769
Staff is recommending denial of the request for increased

305
00:14:14,769 --> 00:14:17,960
effective area from 60 square feet to 89 square feet,

306
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,409
because the need for this increased area does not appear to

307
00:14:20,409 --> 00:14:22,799
be related to anything unique to the property itself.

308
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,919
And we also, in thinking about this, wanted to recommend a

309
00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:30,879
condition of our approval of that second sign location.

310
00:14:30,879 --> 00:14:33,720
That condition would be that an agreement be drafted and

311
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,399
executed by the applicant,

312
00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:37,629
stating that the property owner would be responsible for

313
00:14:37,629 --> 00:14:40,669
maintenance of the sign in the event that work has to be

314
00:14:40,669 --> 00:14:41,480
conducted in those

315
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,019
existing utility easements, just bringing large equipment

316
00:14:45,019 --> 00:14:45,399
in.

317
00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:48,830
Seems like it could pose some risk for the sign if work has

318
00:14:48,830 --> 00:14:50,559
to be done in close proximity to it.

319
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:55,200
And with that, I can answer any questions you might have.

320
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,720
>> Ms. Bruegel.

321
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,000
>> Thank you, Chair.

322
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,799
I'd like to talk about the, I guess, the state regulations.

323
00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:08,879
So as I understand it, the current sign doesn't adhere to

324
00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:11,399
state regulations as far as size of lettering or

325
00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:13,279
something, can you explain that to me?

326
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,240
>> Yes, and the applicant is here and I think they could

327
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,080
better explain that.

328
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,039
But my understanding is that state requires at least eight

329
00:15:19,039 --> 00:15:21,159
inch red lettering or

330
00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:24,100
some opposing red and white background or combination there

331
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:24,440
of.

332
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,230
And so to accommodate that size, they're needing a larger

333
00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:27,919
sign area.

334
00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:30,240
The current sign doesn't meet the requirements.

335
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,970
>> So, but that sign was at some point put up that has the

336
00:15:33,970 --> 00:15:35,360
emergency lettering on it.

337
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,940
Did state regulation change between the time that that sign

338
00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:39,799
was put up?

339
00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:42,840
And this new request, like how?

340
00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:44,879
>> That I'm not aware of.

341
00:15:44,879 --> 00:15:47,110
I'll have to let the applicant speak to that when he

342
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:48,600
presents to you in a little bit.

343
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,490
I do know the sign was put up in about 2014 when the

344
00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:52,879
building first came in.

345
00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:54,480
So it could be that the regulations have changed.

346
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,440
>> I guess I'm just trying to figure out, if the state is

347
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,629
requiring that of them, then why isn't the city granting

348
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:58,919
that?

349
00:15:58,919 --> 00:16:01,029
And why isn't our sign ordinance kind of keeping up with

350
00:16:01,029 --> 00:16:01,399
that?

351
00:16:01,399 --> 00:16:04,440
But if it's, anyway, I'll talk to the applicant about it.

352
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,799
>> Okay, and just to point out related to that, our

353
00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:08,960
ordinance does allow for

354
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,460
experiences for emergency entrances in relation to the

355
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:13,399
height of the sign and

356
00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:17,809
the setback from the roadway, but it doesn't for area or

357
00:16:17,809 --> 00:16:19,360
for sign location.

358
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,360
>> Okay, thank you.

359
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,200
>> I've got a question.

360
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,240
I'm sorry, Mr. Higgins.

361
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,759
>> You ask for questions later on.

362
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:27,600
You ask for comments.

363
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:28,799
I have a comment, not a question.

364
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,720
>> Mr. Higgins, you can comment at any time.

365
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,679
Yes, sir. >> I have an opinion on whether this should be

366
00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:35,960
done or not, but maybe-

367
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,659
>> That's probably more when we get to the point of making

368
00:16:40,659 --> 00:16:41,679
a motion.

369
00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:42,759
That's probably something.

370
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:45,559
Any additional comments?

371
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:52,090
I would say I've got a comment, and that is if, or a

372
00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:53,720
question, and

373
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,669
maybe I just need to understand this, the eight inch letter

374
00:16:58,669 --> 00:16:58,799
ing,

375
00:16:58,799 --> 00:17:04,160
that causes the area of the sign to have to be bigger.

376
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,240
Is that a correct statement?

377
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,480
Or did I miss something?

378
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:08,799
>> I think it could be.

379
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:11,480
I'm not sure exactly how the state regulations are worded.

380
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,480
I think it's eight inches in height.

381
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,700
I'm not sure what width that would require to comply with

382
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:16,079
that.

383
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:17,960
>> Maybe I'll say it a different way.

384
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,759
Is it necessary to go to 89 square feet in order to

385
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:23,240
accommodate the sign so it complies with state law?

386
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:25,960
>> I do not believe so.

387
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,200
Let me get back to the example of the sign here.

388
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,230
You can see this portion in red is the portion that's

389
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:32,619
needing to comply with the state regulations, is my

390
00:17:32,619 --> 00:17:33,799
understanding.

391
00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:37,019
So it seems that there could be room for the area of the

392
00:17:37,019 --> 00:17:39,960
sign to shrink in this lower portion perhaps,

393
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,640
even if this upper part has to be that same size.

394
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:50,200
>> But if you put emergency across it to give the public

395
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,000
full knowledge and

396
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,920
the ability to see it clearly, and that's gotta be in eight

397
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,039
inch block letters.

398
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:04,119
And it takes up the area that comprises that upper part.

399
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:04,640
>> Yes.

400
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:09,009
>> Then it would seem like you've got to have additional

401
00:18:09,009 --> 00:18:10,599
square footage.

402
00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:12,839
Am I, again, maybe I'm missing something.

403
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,640
>> Let me, if I can, Chair, see, if the area that's

404
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,000
calculated for

405
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,410
the effective area is pretty much the base in all of the

406
00:18:24,410 --> 00:18:25,359
sign face.

407
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,769
So if the area that you're referring to does remain the

408
00:18:29,769 --> 00:18:30,119
same,

409
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:36,240
the areas outside of that could shrink to meet the 60 foot,

410
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,039
square foot maximum.

411
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:43,460
So it's not, in my opinion, it's not related to the

412
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:46,920
emergency, the red area, the area in white.

413
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,119
>> So you can make it lower?

414
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:49,640
>> It can make it lower.

415
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,039
>> Okay. >> And that would shrink the square footage.

416
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:53,960
>> Okay. >> Thanks, Ron.

417
00:18:56,319 --> 00:18:57,079
Any additional questions?

418
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:00,960
Thank you, ma'am.

419
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,160
Okay, and at this point, does anyone want to speak on

420
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,119
behalf of the move in?

421
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,400
Yep, come on in, come on up.

422
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,109
Go ahead and identify yourself and your address, if you

423
00:19:14,109 --> 00:19:14,599
will.

424
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,519
And I'll need to go ahead and swear you in as well.

425
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:22,880
>> All right. >> Okay, so go ahead and state your name.

426
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:23,960
>> Brad Morgan.

427
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,119
>> Okay, Mr. Morgan, if you'll put your right hand up, do

428
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,279
you swear to tell the truth,

429
00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:30,240
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

430
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,200
>> Yes, I do. >> Okay, you may proceed.

431
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,279
>> All right, so I'm Brad Morgan, the VP of Operations at

432
00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:35,000
the Heart Hospital.

433
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,200
We're going to thank you for your time.

434
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,619
I can answer some of your questions, specifically the first

435
00:19:41,619 --> 00:19:43,359
question that you had

436
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,119
about the sign regulations, the sign regulation that we're

437
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:48,720
not compliant with right now

438
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,339
with the Texas Department of State Health Services is the

439
00:19:51,339 --> 00:19:52,640
sign should be illuminated.

440
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,720
And the current sign is not illuminated.

441
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,769
Unfortunately, when we put the sign in, we did not realize

442
00:19:58,769 --> 00:20:00,519
that that was a code compliance.

443
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:02,980
And it was pointed out when we did our chest pain accred

444
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:05,799
itation that in order to stay accredited

445
00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:09,319
as a chest pain center, we must get an illuminated sign.

446
00:20:09,319 --> 00:20:12,809
And so this started the process of now we've got to get an

447
00:20:12,809 --> 00:20:14,640
illuminated sign so

448
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,170
that we can stay a chest pain center and as the largest

449
00:20:17,170 --> 00:20:19,519
open heart surgery program in Denton County,

450
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:22,359
probably a good thing for us to be a chest pain center.

451
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,240
>> So to interrupt then, so you've had this sign,

452
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,440
as long as you need to have an illuminated sign,

453
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,349
that may be prompted maybe a brainstorming session about

454
00:20:34,349 --> 00:20:35,640
designing this sign.

455
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,950
>> We did. >> We loved this big, beautiful 89 foot sign,

456
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:40,440
but oops, that's too big.

457
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,480
And so now we're here.

458
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,279
>> So we brought in a sign vendor to do the architectural

459
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:44,799
design.

460
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:46,759
It's the same sign vendor that's used at all of the Baylor

461
00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:49,359
Scott and White health hospitals.

462
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,720
And they basically just gave us the same sign that they put

463
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,450
at all the rest of the Baylor Scott and White health

464
00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:56,720
campuses.

465
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,490
And so this is standardized as to what we put at our other

466
00:21:00,490 --> 00:21:01,519
campuses.

467
00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:04,920
They also took into consideration the signage at the other

468
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,119
two hospitals that are in the area.

469
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,299
The sign that is directly across the street at Medical City

470
00:21:10,299 --> 00:21:12,480
Denton is a 90 square foot sign.

471
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,839
And the one that was proposed is an 89 square foot sign.

472
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,890
I think the sign vendor was taking into consideration what

473
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:19,599
is normal.

474
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:22,960
They were also taking into consideration the traffic

475
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,200
patterns there and

476
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,900
being able to read the sign and being at a height that was

477
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:31,519
good for the location.

478
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:35,140
If you've come down that location, if you come up the hill

479
00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:38,119
coming from the west side, you have to be able to see.

480
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,839
So the sign needs to be a certain height.

481
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:42,690
And so they were going for a certain height so that you

482
00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:45,799
could see the sign from down near the stop sign.

483
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:47,799
In the corner of Colorado and May Hill.

484
00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:51,779
>> So are you able to adhere to the state regulations with

485
00:21:51,779 --> 00:21:54,119
a smaller sign, with a 60 foot sign?

486
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,519
Can you still at least maintain your regulation?

487
00:21:57,519 --> 00:21:58,440
>> We could.

488
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,039
We could shrink it down to a 60 square foot sign.

489
00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:05,950
And we do have an alternative plan for that 60 square foot

490
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:06,640
sign.

491
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,160
It does cause us to shrink the sign down in size.

492
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,160
I have a rendering for that.

493
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,200
And we're able to do that and capable of doing that.

494
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,529
>> And then you said that there's a sign directly across

495
00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:19,119
the street?

496
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,039
>> Directly across the street.

497
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:20,880
>> On May Hill.

498
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,480
>> Yes.

499
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,759
>> Or Denton Regional that's 90 square feet.

500
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:27,720
>> Yes, it's a 90 square foot sign, exact same purpose.

501
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,079
It's their emergency entrance sign.

502
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:29,799
>> And it's illuminated and it's on.

503
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:31,960
>> Illuminated, the whole thing.

504
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,240
And so we were trying to find a comparable sign to the one

505
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,400
that's right across the street.

506
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,450
But we can go with a 60 square foot sign if that's the way

507
00:22:40,450 --> 00:22:42,039
that the commission finds.

508
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:46,519
>> And I understand that again, part of what I'm thinking

509
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:49,000
about is the fact that it's an emergency.

510
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,319
It's to direct traffic to the emergency room.

511
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:53,920
>> That's exactly what the sign is for.

512
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,970
Unfortunately, part of the problem with our current signage

513
00:22:56,970 --> 00:22:59,440
is that it doesn't illuminate night so you can't see it at

514
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,000
night.

515
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,880
And we've also had complaints from multiple patients and

516
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,289
multiple EMS drivers that say they can't find our emergency

517
00:23:08,289 --> 00:23:08,880
entrance.

518
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,490
And so we really need to, this is a patient safety issue to

519
00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:15,240
be able to find our emergency entrance.

520
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,710
>> So in that same regard, does the placement of the sign

521
00:23:17,710 --> 00:23:19,559
in the location that it's being placed,

522
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:27,200
does that obstruct any view traffic wise or any other view?

523
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,160
>> Not to my knowledge, no.

524
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,000
I have not seen anything that suggests that.

525
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,680
>> Commissioners, any questions?

526
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,559
Chair recognizes Mr. House.

527
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:39,720
>> Thank you.

528
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:40,480
I just have a question.

529
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,519
You mentioned the sign at the hospital across from you.

530
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:46,279
>> Yes. >> Do you happen to know when that sign went in?

531
00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:48,559
If it was under the current ordinances with its own

532
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:49,200
variance?

533
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,250
>> I asked that same question because I was wondering how a

534
00:23:52,250 --> 00:23:53,839
90 square foot sign, and

535
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:57,079
unfortunately I haven't received an answer to that, so I'm

536
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:58,240
not exactly sure.

537
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,930
I'm assuming it probably came in under a previous sign

538
00:24:01,930 --> 00:24:02,960
ordinance.

539
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,869
I do know that that sign has recently been updated though

540
00:24:05,869 --> 00:24:08,359
because the hospital did change their name.

541
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,000
>> Right. >> To Medical City Denton, and so

542
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,920
I'm assuming they received approval to be able to replace

543
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,680
the sign that was there before.

544
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,089
>> And if you use the 60 square foot sign instead of the 89

545
00:24:20,089 --> 00:24:22,440
one that you're requesting with the variance,

546
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,640
you mentioned patient safety.

547
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,109
Do you think that patient safety would be reduced with a

548
00:24:27,109 --> 00:24:29,880
smaller sign, or would it make no difference?

549
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,279
>> I think the visibility would not be as good.

550
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:35,960
I think it would be better than what we have today.

551
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,079
>> Right.

552
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:40,339
>> But it's not going to be as good because the sign will

553
00:24:40,339 --> 00:24:41,480
not be as tall.

554
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,200
So the sign height would have to be shrunk down

555
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,839
approximately two feet, two and

556
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,640
a half feet, and then the sign width would have to be shr

557
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,279
unk down approximately a foot.

558
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:55,950
So the current sign that's being proposed is 14 feet, 10

559
00:24:55,950 --> 00:24:57,920
inches by 6 feet wide.

560
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,799
The new sign would be 12 feet by 5 feet, so that it would

561
00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:02,119
fit in.

562
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,869
And so it would change its sound, but it would not be a

563
00:25:10,869 --> 00:25:12,440
huge hindrance.

564
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:12,940
>> Thanks.

565
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:14,859
>> Okay.

566
00:25:17,859 --> 00:25:19,359
Chair recognizes Mr. Cole.

567
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,029
>> Does the hospital across the street offer the exact same

568
00:25:22,029 --> 00:25:24,319
services, Open Heart, Cath Lab?

569
00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:24,819
>> They do.

570
00:25:24,819 --> 00:25:25,319
>> Okay.

571
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,480
>> Any additional questions?

572
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,519
Thank you very much for your time.

573
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:35,019
>> Sure.

574
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:39,799
>> So the public part of the, oh, back up.

575
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,640
Are there any cards that?

576
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:47,140
Okay.

577
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,720
All right, so we've got a speaker card on this particular

578
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,319
item.

579
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:55,680
It's from, looks like Jennifer Lane.

580
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,599
>> Yes.

581
00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:00,519
>> At 1526 Willowwood Street, Denton.

582
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:01,880
>> Yes.

583
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,000
>> And she is speaking in opposition.

584
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,079
So Ms. Lane, if you'll approach the podium and I'll need to

585
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:09,319
go ahead and swear you in.

586
00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:09,819
>> Sure.

587
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,720
>> Ms. Lane, if you'll put your right hand up.

588
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:16,880
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing

589
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,480
but the truth so that you got?

590
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,160
>> I do, yes.

591
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,599
>> Okay, you may proceed.

592
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:23,240
>> Yesterday I drove by the facility and

593
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,119
on the opposite direction there's a great deal of signage

594
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,319
that's painted on the buildings itself.

595
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:31,279
There's also a sign the same size as the one that's

596
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,240
currently there coming from the direction that's under

597
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:34,640
concern.

598
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,759
There is no painted sign identifying the building on that

599
00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:41,720
side.

600
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,589
There's less traffic, but there's still some coming that

601
00:26:45,589 --> 00:26:46,119
way.

602
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,839
The actual square footage is rather small there.

603
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,890
There's an entrance there that one can get to by seeing the

604
00:26:53,890 --> 00:26:56,240
sign, but there's also an entrance immediately after where

605
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,839
all the painted buildings are.

606
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,380
And the second sign is from the standpoint of someone

607
00:27:00,380 --> 00:27:03,240
trying to get there, you miss it, you still can get in.

608
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:09,490
The height issue strikes me as a possible concern, but the

609
00:27:09,490 --> 00:27:13,759
size, if you see it, is very drastic.

610
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:16,890
And if there's other competing signs, it might actually, in

611
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:17,880
my opinion,

612
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,359
defeat the purpose of the presenter in terms of confusing

613
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,920
the eye, is my thought.

614
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,400
>> Okay.

615
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,680
>> A new sign is needed, but it may be fine with matching

616
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:31,839
the other sign.

617
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:33,160
>> All right, don't run off yet.

618
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,720
>> Okay, okay.

619
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,680
>> There may be questions for you.

620
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,400
>> Sure, sure, sure, thanks.

621
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:38,720
>> Any questions of Miss Lane?

622
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,990
Miss Lane, are you someone that frequents that area or

623
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:45,880
works in the area or?

624
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,930
>> I don't work in the area, but as often as any person in

625
00:27:49,930 --> 00:27:53,480
Denton, I would go there, no more and a less.

626
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,400
>> Do you think that an emergency room sign would be

627
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,839
helpful in that area?

628
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:03,549
>> Well, there's already, but it's more visible coming from

629
00:28:03,549 --> 00:28:05,839
the highway direction than the opposite side.

630
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,569
The building itself is painted with signs, and there's two

631
00:28:10,569 --> 00:28:12,759
signs exactly the same.

632
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:16,900
One, it will stay, I suppose, because it's not being

633
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:19,039
requested to be changed.

634
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,710
And the paintings on the buildings themselves, the painting

635
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:24,880
in the concrete is already there.

636
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,250
On the side in question, there is not painting on the

637
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:29,160
concrete.

638
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,880
There's the sign that they desire to replace.

639
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,299
I'm suspecting that having it illuminated will be attention

640
00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:39,319
grabbing in and of itself.

641
00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:40,640
>> How about?

642
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,410
>> I didn't notice a great incline or anything driving

643
00:28:44,410 --> 00:28:45,519
either way.

644
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:50,000
So I suppose there is a hill, but it's not something that,

645
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
with all this other detail,

646
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,359
I didn't think, there's a big hill there, I can't see

647
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:54,039
anything.

648
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:57,480
>> Yeah, I was really kind of focusing on you had said,

649
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,359
well, you've been in the area and

650
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:03,769
then you've gone past, or you've seen that there's two entr

651
00:29:03,769 --> 00:29:04,359
ances.

652
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:08,769
>> Right. >> So the concern I had was, well, is it easy to

653
00:29:08,769 --> 00:29:09,759
miss then?

654
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:10,720
>> No, I don't think so.

655
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,420
Possibly from the direction in question, if the highway's

656
00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:17,400
behind you, you can't miss it.

657
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,809
If you're going towards the highway, perhaps, but then

658
00:29:21,809 --> 00:29:23,160
immediately there's,

659
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,140
imagine an illuminated sign there, let's say you still

660
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:28,559
somehow missed an illuminated sign.

661
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,440
There's immediately all that other signage right there.

662
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,000
>> Is your opposition mostly the size?

663
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,839
>> Just the size.

664
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:36,480
>> Okay.

665
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,079
>> Yeah.

666
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:37,599
>> Thank you very much.

667
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:39,839
>> I think there should be a new sign and it should comply.

668
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:40,839
>> Okay, thank you very much.

669
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:42,240
>> Thanks.

670
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240
>> Actually, sorry, any additional questions for Ms. Lane?

671
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,359
Okay, hearing none.

672
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,900
Are there any other folks that wish to speak on this

673
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:52,519
particular topic?

674
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,569
Okay, looks like we are closing for public comment and we

675
00:30:00,569 --> 00:30:01,920
can take a motion if there is any.

676
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,160
I'm sorry, we can open it for discussion, pardon me.

677
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,000
>> I'd like to speak.

678
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:11,319
>> The floor recognizes Mr. Higgins.

679
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:13,240
>> Chair.

680
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,359
>> I'd like to use, can I approach the screen?

681
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:17,480
We'll have to speak from here.

682
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,160
>> You can approach the screen.

683
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,740
>> Could you, Mr. Gershwin, could you put that first slide

684
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:25,799
you had that's the aerial view?

685
00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:28,759
>> Thank you.

686
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,519
>> This one or this one?

687
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:38,019
>> Yeah.

688
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:42,519
>> That's the bigger one.

689
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,680
>> Is that one better?

690
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,400
>> Mr. Higgins, be sure to use the mic too.

691
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,000
>> No, I don't believe there's a pointer.

692
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,480
Point with the arrows here.

693
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,759
>> Mr. Higgins, you have to use the mic though.

694
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:01,759
>> Yeah, okay.

695
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,589
My premise is that if you are having a heart attack, you

696
00:31:08,589 --> 00:31:09,759
want to get there fast.

697
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:13,849
And if someone's taking you, they want to be able to find

698
00:31:13,849 --> 00:31:14,759
it fast.

699
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:20,279
And I would argue that this is a unique,

700
00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:26,960
the way this building is organized, it is unique.

701
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,049
And it does deserve an exception, and I'll explain it this

702
00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:30,519
way.

703
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:38,400
If you drive it and you come in, and you come in here,

704
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,440
you see this sign, the left third of the sign says

705
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,000
emergency, and there's an arrow.

706
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:54,319
If you come down, come on, if you come down this way,

707
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:57,819
and you turn, or if you come down this way and you turn

708
00:31:57,819 --> 00:31:59,000
left in here,

709
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,680
that sign's facing 45 degrees to the road.

710
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,089
You don't know whether that sign says go this way or this

711
00:32:06,089 --> 00:32:06,279
way.

712
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,049
But even so, if somebody's in a hurry and they go down this

713
00:32:12,049 --> 00:32:13,400
way, this doesn't really,

714
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:17,099
it's not really big enough to show you, but it is

715
00:32:17,099 --> 00:32:19,559
absolutely almost labyrinthine

716
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:22,630
what you have to do to find that emergency room that's in

717
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:24,240
the back of the hospital.

718
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:27,950
Then the lady mentioned that there's a lot of big red signs

719
00:32:27,950 --> 00:32:30,119
on the walls where there has to be,

720
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,000
to drive you through all this stuff.

721
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,799
Then you have to go around, you have to end up coming down

722
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:38,759
along, go through here,

723
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:42,269
wind down and go behind this thing, and then up in to find

724
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:43,759
the emergency room.

725
00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:49,200
I mean, I don't know why it's located that way, but it is.

726
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,720
And so, good directions are essential in this case,

727
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,640
because we're talking about emergency services.

728
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:05,089
When you look at this area over here, it doesn't show up

729
00:33:05,089 --> 00:33:05,599
very well,

730
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:07,920
but this is actually a big green space.

731
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,500
There's road, there's large green space, then there's

732
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:15,000
parking, and then you get to the hospital.

733
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,049
So the sign in that sense is not out of scale for the space

734
00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:18,960
that it's in.

735
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,200
And you really need, I think, to bring people in this way.

736
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,440
If you bring people in this way, okay, this is the proposed

737
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,240
location.

738
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,289
If you bring people in this way, it's easy to direct them

739
00:33:31,289 --> 00:33:33,359
right down here and behind the hospital.

740
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:36,920
It will be much, much more efficient, I think.

741
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,900
And I think that a 14 foot sign, we're talking about a

742
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:44,279
variance of 29 feet.

743
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:49,759
Imagine a sign five by six feet.

744
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:52,160
I mean, it doesn't really add all that much.

745
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,119
I think the 14 feet in height is essential.

746
00:33:55,119 --> 00:33:57,440
People have to be able to see that.

747
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,440
Now, I don't know what's going to go on across the road

748
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,640
over here,

749
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,039
but just like Mayhill, this is actually a divided road.

750
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:09,639
There's a lot of space between here and there.

751
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,440
And I can't see where putting the larger sign in here would

752
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,920
in any way be obtrusive to view from any other angle.

753
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,570
And so consequently, I would just speak in favor of the

754
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:24,840
applicant.

755
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,679
Let them have their 14 foot larger sign.

756
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:28,179
>> Thank you.

757
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,800
Any additional comments?

758
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,079
Chair recognizes Ms. Bruegel.

759
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:34,599
>> Thank you, Chair.

760
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,000
Mr. Higgins, I am prone to agree with you, actually.

761
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,239
My mom's been a patient at this hospital.

762
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,289
And even in clear daylight, when I'm thinking clearly, it

763
00:34:45,289 --> 00:34:47,199
is challenging to find, and

764
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:49,599
you're right, seconds count.

765
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:54,010
And I think, especially, I was unaware that across the

766
00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:54,119
street,

767
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:59,639
regional, sorry, medical city has an even larger sign.

768
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:04,599
And so I think this request, though it does not conform to

769
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:05,840
our current sign ordinances,

770
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,159
I think it does conform to the area out there.

771
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:12,000
It's going to be well lit, it's going to be big enough so

772
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,530
that no matter what direction you're coming from, you can

773
00:35:14,530 --> 00:35:14,920
see it.

774
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,800
And it kind of matches the sign across the street.

775
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,360
So I'm also in favor of the applicant's request.

776
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440
>> Yeah, I would also mention that-

777
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,039
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins.

778
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:24,079
>> Thank you.

779
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:26,880
I would also mention, I don't know if the sign's going to

780
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,159
be lit in the daylight.

781
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:30,800
But at night when it's lit, it's easy to see.

782
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,199
In daylight, if it's not lit, or even if it is, it's

783
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:35,920
probably not that easy to see.

784
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,880
And I think size helps.

785
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:44,059
>> You know, when I read the material, the first thing I

786
00:35:44,059 --> 00:35:44,519
thought of,

787
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:48,929
it's an emergency area, we need to give due deference for

788
00:35:48,929 --> 00:35:51,519
the minimal square footage change.

789
00:35:51,519 --> 00:35:55,320
And, you know, God forbid something happens and you can't

790
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,000
see the place.

791
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,960
It is a little bit difficult to see, but out there a lot.

792
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,320
So I am personally in favor of granting the variance as

793
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,239
requested.

794
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,280
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Cole.

795
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,199
>> This is also two competing hospitals.

796
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,599
They're competing for CathLab and they're competing for

797
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:16,239
Open Hearts.

798
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,500
And, you know, one side, one business has a bigger sign

799
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,159
than the sign of the other business.

800
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:26,280
If you look at it business to business.

801
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,440
So I'm where you guys are.

802
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:31,599
>> Any additional comments?

803
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:34,760
>> I'm sorry, go ahead.

804
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,280
>> Mr. Trott.

805
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,119
>> I'm in favor of what y'all have been speaking of.

806
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:45,710
I would love to reduce some of the clutter of signs in Dent

807
00:36:45,710 --> 00:36:47,400
on as we have the opportunities.

808
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,360
But this is not a neighborhood that has a lot of clutter in

809
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:50,760
it.

810
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,550
And while I don't, fortunately, have not had a need for

811
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:57,639
this hospital, I do have doctors in that vicinity.

812
00:36:57,639 --> 00:37:01,880
And the signs are all well thought out in that area.

813
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,119
>> Any additional comments?

814
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:11,519
Would anyone like to make the chair recognize Ms. Prigle?

815
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:12,559
>> Thank you, Chair.

816
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:13,840
Yes, I would like to make a motion.

817
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,320
I would move to approve the applicant's request.

818
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,199
But I also really like the staff friendly amendment there,

819
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:29,280
since it is in an easement that any damage to the sign that

820
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,800
the property owner be responsible for that and not any

821
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,000
maintenance workers.

822
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,480
So.

823
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,000
>> Is there a second?

824
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,000
>> Seconded by Mr. Cole.

825
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:38,519
Discussion?

826
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:43,000
The only comment I've got is, is it really in an easement?

827
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,039
>> Isn't that, did I, I understood that correctly?

828
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:46,199
>> It's close to an easement.

829
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:47,039
Sorry.

830
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:47,920
>> It's like squeezed right in there or something.

831
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,340
>> I just hate to put a higher burden on the property owner

832
00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:51,599
if.

833
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:52,719
>> I, no, I agree.

834
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,079
>> If it's not in an easement.

835
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:55,280
But if it's in an easement, then.

836
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,559
>> It is squeezed in between two easements.

837
00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:02,039
It is not located in either, there's a 16 foot utility eas

838
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:05,079
ement to the east of it and

839
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,880
a 20 foot utility easement on the south side, but it is

840
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,360
outside of both easements.

841
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,320
>> That's what I thought.

842
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,039
>> I see. >> I guess.

843
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:12,960
>> Then I'm going to withdraw, I'm sorry, I thought it was

844
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,460
just creeping over into the easement, so I'm going to

845
00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:16,440
withdraw that.

846
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,239
Do I need to restate my motion then?

847
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,000
>> I would restate it for the record if you don't mind.

848
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,909
>> Yeah, so I'm going to move for approval of the applicant

849
00:38:23,909 --> 00:38:25,800
's request as requested.

850
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:26,599
>> Do we have a second?

851
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:27,360
>> Second.

852
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,559
>> Seconded by Mr. Cole.

853
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,519
Any discussion about the motion?

854
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:40,320
Hearing no discussion.

855
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:40,840
>> I'm sorry.

856
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,599
>> No, I'm sorry.

857
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:45,079
Yep, the, I recognize Mr. House, pardon me.

858
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:46,599
>> Thank you.

859
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:51,519
I would just like to say that I'm in agreement with all of

860
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:52,280
you, but

861
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,690
only strictly because it is a hospital, and I would like to

862
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:57,719
kind of note it that

863
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,389
this shouldn't be a regular occurrence for each and every

864
00:39:00,389 --> 00:39:01,079
business.

865
00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:03,719
Well, the guy across the highway has the same size sign.

866
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,139
It's a hospital, it's for the health and well-being of the

867
00:39:09,139 --> 00:39:10,400
citizens of our city.

868
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,679
And I think that's why, and probably one of the main

869
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:16,480
reasons why this variance should be allowed.

870
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,840
And not just because the guy across the street has the sign

871
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,840
, not digging at Mr. Cole at all.

872
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,460
I just wanted to make that point clear so that if it comes

873
00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:28,400
up at a later time with two regular commercial businesses,

874
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,880
it's less of an issue.

875
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,559
I thought that might be important to note.

876
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:35,440
>> I think it's a great comment, and I fully agree with you

877
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:35,679
.

878
00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:39,250
I think the exigent, the emergency nature of this is really

879
00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:41,440
the reason I'm voting in favor of it, so.

880
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,760
Okay, any additional comments?

881
00:39:46,679 --> 00:39:48,400
All those in favor, say aye.

882
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,880
>> Aye. >> Aye.

883
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:50,559
>> Any opposed?

884
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,800
Hearing none opposed, the motion carries unanimously.

885
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:57,460
Thank you again.

886
00:39:59,079 --> 00:39:59,579
All right.

887
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:11,159
Okay, we're going to go to item number ZBA 17-003.

888
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:15,139
Hold a public hearing and consider approval of a variance

889
00:40:15,139 --> 00:40:17,280
from chapter, hold on.

890
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,360
I'm wrong.

891
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,440
ZBA 17-004, hold a public hearing and

892
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:31,159
consider approval of a variance from section 35.4.

893
00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:33,320
I mean 14.4.

894
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,079
Spaces required of the debt and development code relating

895
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:39,639
to the minimum number of required parking spaces for

896
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:45,840
mixed density dwellings on approximately 0.91 acre.

897
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,929
The variance requested is for a reduction in the number of

898
00:40:48,929 --> 00:40:50,559
required parking spaces.

899
00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,750
The subject property is generally located on the west side

900
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:55,320
of the Industrial Street and

901
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,389
South Bell Avenue intersection, approximately 100 feet

902
00:41:00,389 --> 00:41:02,159
north of East Prairie Street.

903
00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:08,239
This is again ZBA 17-0004, Industrial Street Apartments.

904
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,519
And staff.

905
00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:13,360
Ms. White.

906
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,219
>> Hi, I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of

907
00:41:16,219 --> 00:41:16,840
Denton.

908
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,989
And I'm presenting ZBA 17-004, Industrial Street Apartments

909
00:41:19,989 --> 00:41:20,679
to you today.

910
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:25,829
As was stated, the request is to consider approval of a

911
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:29,679
variance regarding the required parking spaces for

912
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:33,449
a mixed density dwelling, otherwise known as multi-family

913
00:41:33,449 --> 00:41:36,920
development on approximately 0.91 acre.

914
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,530
The request is actually to reduce the number of parking

915
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:42,039
spaces, so we'll get into that in just a minute.

916
00:41:42,039 --> 00:41:45,929
Just to orient you, the subject property is located on the

917
00:41:45,929 --> 00:41:47,480
west side of Bell and

918
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,000
Industrial, right here in the yellow.

919
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,159
The property's undeveloped, but if you've driven past the

920
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:53,719
site,

921
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,820
you may have noticed that there are some clearing and

922
00:41:55,820 --> 00:41:57,960
grading activities that have begun on the site.

923
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,369
It is also situated in the southeast part of the city's

924
00:42:02,369 --> 00:42:05,159
central business district and within a mixed use area.

925
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:09,239
So just taking a look at what's around the site.

926
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,289
It has some single family homes to the north and also to

927
00:42:12,289 --> 00:42:13,039
the west.

928
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:15,679
There's a business to the south.

929
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:19,760
There's some self storage here to the east.

930
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,119
And generally just a mix of uses in the area.

931
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,929
It has a DCG zoning designation, Downtown Commercial

932
00:42:27,929 --> 00:42:29,039
General.

933
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,840
Multi-family is a permitted use within the zoning district.

934
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,320
Something funny to this slide, but we'll go.

935
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,199
Okay, so generally the background.

936
00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:46,610
So when a building is built within the city of Denton or a

937
00:42:46,610 --> 00:42:47,280
development comes in,

938
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,780
they are required to provide parking in accordance with sub

939
00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:54,800
-chapter 14 of the Denton Development Code to ensure that

940
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,199
all developments provide adequate and reasonable parking to

941
00:42:58,199 --> 00:42:59,920
serve that development.

942
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,599
So chapter 14 also states that where literal application of

943
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,159
the parking requirements would not achieve the purpose and

944
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:08,440
intent of the requirement,

945
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,889
the applicant may seek a variance from the Board of Adjust

946
00:43:10,889 --> 00:43:11,320
ment.

947
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,840
Okay, so anyway, now more specific to the request.

948
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:26,599
So in sub-chapter 14, specifically section 35.14.14.A,

949
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:30,440
the parking requirements for multi-family are as follows.

950
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,019
For studio and efficiency apartments under 600 square feet,

951
00:43:35,019 --> 00:43:37,199
it's 1.25 spaces.

952
00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:39,920
For one bedroom apartments, it's 1.5 spaces.

953
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:45,159
And for two bedroom apartments, it's 1.75 parking spaces.

954
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,719
The applicant has sought approval of the site plan of the

955
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,599
development from development services.

956
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:56,010
The original proposal was a 36 unit multi-family

957
00:43:56,010 --> 00:43:59,000
development that included 16 studio apartments,

958
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,800
8 one bedroom apartments, and 12 two bedroom apartments.

959
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,219
The parking that was calculated for this mix of dwelling

960
00:44:07,219 --> 00:44:09,800
units was 53 parking spaces.

961
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,360
And let's look at the site plan associated with that.

962
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,039
So, you bet.

963
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:19,920
Sure.

964
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,239
All right, so here's the site plan.

965
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:22,800
You can see Industrial Street here.

966
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,320
Here's Bell Avenue.

967
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,239
Access to the site is off of industrial.

968
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,440
The parking sort of wraps the building.

969
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,760
The building, proposed building is here in this location,

970
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:32,880
and

971
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,400
then 53 spaces are proposed to be around it.

972
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:44,000
So the applicant at this time would like to modify his

973
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,840
proposal and

974
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,650
change that 36 unit development into 48 units, but all

975
00:44:50,650 --> 00:44:51,599
studios.

976
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:54,960
So to remove the one bedroom and the two bedroom units and

977
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,239
just have that studio, those studio units.

978
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,320
This would require 60 parking spaces because when you

979
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,119
multiply 1.25 times the 48, you have 60.

980
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:09,809
Which is seven more than what was approved with that 36

981
00:45:09,809 --> 00:45:11,599
unit development.

982
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:14,050
The applicant, however, would like to maintain that

983
00:45:14,050 --> 00:45:15,159
existing site plan.

984
00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:19,739
He's actually proposing to develop the site with the same

985
00:45:19,739 --> 00:45:20,840
building footprint and

986
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,500
same orientation and parking layout, but just modify the

987
00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:26,360
interior of the building.

988
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,480
And he would like to maintain that 53 parking spaces in

989
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,880
accordance with the original proposal.

990
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:38,190
So as such, he's requesting a variance from sub-chapter 14,

991
00:45:38,190 --> 00:45:38,840
and that is for

992
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,400
that minimum parking of 1.25 spaces per efficiency unit.

993
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,920
Which would reduce that parking by seven.

994
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,389
So the variance is to reduce the parking by seven to

995
00:45:51,389 --> 00:45:53,719
maintain that 53 spaces.

996
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:00,269
So the considerations that staff looked at when we analyzed

997
00:46:00,269 --> 00:46:03,659
this request was to look at the criteria for approval in

998
00:46:03,659 --> 00:46:04,840
sub-chapter three.

999
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:10,650
In section 35.3.6.B.2 of the Denton Development Code

1000
00:46:10,650 --> 00:46:12,960
outlines the criteria for approval.

1001
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,400
And we'll just talk about those briefly.

1002
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,619
The part in the italics is the criteria and then the bold

1003
00:46:19,619 --> 00:46:21,119
is kind of some of our analysis.

1004
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,579
So first, special circumstances or conditions that apply to

1005
00:46:24,579 --> 00:46:26,679
a parcel which are peculiar,

1006
00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:29,849
unique to that parcel and do not generally apply to other

1007
00:46:29,849 --> 00:46:32,840
parcels in the same district or neighborhood.

1008
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,750
And that would prevent the applicant from developing the

1009
00:46:36,750 --> 00:46:39,800
site if there was a strict application of the code.

1010
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:45,840
So staff looked at the area, looked at the nearby parcels.

1011
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,179
And due to the size and the shape and the topography of

1012
00:46:49,179 --> 00:46:50,599
this existing site,

1013
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:52,980
it doesn't have any special circumstance or unique

1014
00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:56,199
condition that would prevent it from being developed

1015
00:46:56,199 --> 00:46:59,639
with that multi-family use or any use similar to other parc

1016
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:01,360
els in the same district.

1017
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,769
The parking requirements would not prevent that him from

1018
00:47:05,769 --> 00:47:08,500
developing the site as he could develop it with a different

1019
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:09,679
mix of apartments.

1020
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:13,449
Within the same district and still be able to develop the

1021
00:47:13,449 --> 00:47:14,079
site.

1022
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,110
Second, the granting of the variance will not be

1023
00:47:20,110 --> 00:47:22,880
detrimental to the public welfare or

1024
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,000
injurious to other property improvements in the district or

1025
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,000
neighborhood.

1026
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,960
Per the applicant's submittal, they are stating that most

1027
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:33,480
units or

1028
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,420
all of the units would be occupied by a single tenant, but

1029
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:38,239
there's no guarantee for that.

1030
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,650
Some of those units could have dual occupancy, which would

1031
00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:44,400
increase the number of parking or

1032
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,400
cars that would be needed to be parked on the site.

1033
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,079
As such, if there were fewer spaces, then they would

1034
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,039
typically probably park on the street,

1035
00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:56,480
which could potentially impact adjacent properties.

1036
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,239
The granting of the variance is necessary for the

1037
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:02,480
reasonable use of the parcel, and

1038
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,949
the variance granted is the minimum variance that would

1039
00:48:04,949 --> 00:48:06,239
accomplish the purpose.

1040
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,230
As I stated before, the parking requirements are preventing

1041
00:48:11,230 --> 00:48:14,280
him from developing a multifamily use on the site.

1042
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,230
The number or types of units could be altered in order to

1043
00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:19,800
develop the site with that multifamily use.

1044
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,650
So the parking requirements aren't preventing him from

1045
00:48:22,650 --> 00:48:23,679
using this site.

1046
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:29,219
And finally, the literal enforcement and strict application

1047
00:48:29,219 --> 00:48:30,880
of the provisions will result in

1048
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,679
an unnecessarily hardship inconsistent with the general

1049
00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:35,679
provisions and intent of the ordinance.

1050
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,960
Because he could develop the site with a different mix of

1051
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,119
uses or bedroom types,

1052
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:46,449
the literal enforcement of those parking requirements

1053
00:48:46,449 --> 00:48:47,480
wouldn't prevent him from

1054
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,880
develop the site with a multifamily development.

1055
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,159
So as such, it would not pose a hardship on the site.

1056
00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:58,079
So here are some pictures of the property.

1057
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:04,000
This is on industrial looking toward Bell.

1058
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,829
This is the site right here, as you can see, they've got

1059
00:49:06,829 --> 00:49:08,119
the silt fencing up.

1060
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:09,519
Here's the site as well.

1061
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:13,519
There's some silt fencing in the site.

1062
00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:14,559
And then here's the street.

1063
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:15,960
So this is the street looking north.

1064
00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:20,400
Public notification was sent out.

1065
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,170
We have received seven responses in opposition, and I did

1066
00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:26,559
pass those out to you today.

1067
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:30,969
That does reach that over 20% threshold, which requires a

1068
00:49:30,969 --> 00:49:31,920
super majority.

1069
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,440
However, because this board requires a super majority to

1070
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,360
approve anyway, it really doesn't change things necessarily

1071
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,000
in the voting.

1072
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,440
Since six out of seven has to vote to approve.

1073
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:45,190
So based upon the criteria for approval and staff's

1074
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:47,719
analysis, we do recommend approval of the request.

1075
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,039
The applicant is here, and I'll stand for any questions.

1076
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:51,119
>> You mean denial.

1077
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:52,239
>> I'm sorry, did I say approval?

1078
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:53,360
Denial, yes.

1079
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:54,559
Denial.

1080
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:56,159
>> Ms. White, can we go back to the site plan?

1081
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:02,000
I don't know what happened in my presentation.

1082
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,960
It's- >> You did just fine.

1083
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,360
>> There, okay.

1084
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,400
>> Where's the handicap parking?

1085
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:11,880
>> They are right here.

1086
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,000
>> And I'm assuming that's not included in the 53 spaces.

1087
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,119
>> Our handicap parking spaces are actually included within

1088
00:50:18,119 --> 00:50:19,360
our parking totals.

1089
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,320
So that is- >> And there's two or three?

1090
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:23,199
>> It appears to be two.

1091
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,840
>> So that means there's 51 available non-handicapped?

1092
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:29,960
>> Yes, sir.

1093
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,079
>> And there's 48 residents potentially?

1094
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:34,239
>> Yes, sir.

1095
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,360
48 units.

1096
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,840
>> Yeah, units potential 48, 100% occupancy.

1097
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:39,679
>> Yes, sir.

1098
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:40,179
>> Okay.

1099
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:44,760
We are open for questions of Ms. Wyatt.

1100
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:47,840
>> I have just one question.

1101
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,679
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Sarath.

1102
00:50:49,679 --> 00:50:51,239
>> I'm sorry, thank you.

1103
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,440
>> I've gotta do it, they tell me I have to.

1104
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,079
>> I'm sorry, no, no.

1105
00:50:53,079 --> 00:50:54,199
>> Sorry.

1106
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:54,840
>> I need to be told.

1107
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,159
>> Each of those units has how many bedrooms?

1108
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:01,800
>> Just one.

1109
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,360
>> Just one bedroom?

1110
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:03,599
>> It's an efficiency, a studio.

1111
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:04,000
Yes, sir.

1112
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:04,500
>> Okay.

1113
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:14,019
>> So if the variance is granted and there's overflow

1114
00:51:14,019 --> 00:51:14,920
parking,

1115
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,039
where would that overflow parking go?

1116
00:51:18,119 --> 00:51:20,360
>> They are proposing 53 spaces.

1117
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:25,119
So they're proposing to park the development one space per

1118
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:29,480
unit plus five guest parking, I guess.

1119
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,889
If there was additional overflow beyond that, then it would

1120
00:51:33,889 --> 00:51:34,679
park in the right of way.

1121
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:36,480
They would have to park in the right of way.

1122
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,639
>> You mean on the street?

1123
00:51:38,639 --> 00:51:39,199
>> Yes, sir. >> Right.

1124
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:43,440
Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins.

1125
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:51,800
>> Just curious, does the city have any growth plan or

1126
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,309
formal policy regarding degree of residential density in

1127
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:57,840
over in a particular area?

1128
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,710
>> This is in the DCG zoning district, which permits 150

1129
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:04,719
dwelling units per acre.

1130
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,400
And in the zoning district in this use,

1131
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,880
each bedroom is considered half a dwelling unit.

1132
00:52:12,679 --> 00:52:15,199
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Surratt.

1133
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:17,840
>> I was gonna ask if- >> You didn't put your hand up again

1134
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,000
.

1135
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,000
>> I thought you were gonna call on me after Mr. Higgins.

1136
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,280
>> Sorry. >> If each-

1137
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,400
>> I'll get you next.

1138
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,119
>> Continue that question for, if each has one bedroom,

1139
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:32,469
what are our residential requirements in Ditten per

1140
00:52:32,469 --> 00:52:34,360
dwelling unit?

1141
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,119
>> For multifamily or for single?

1142
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:40,920
>> Well for this, would it be two occupants per unit if

1143
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,239
they each have one bedroom?

1144
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,239
Or what would be the requirement?

1145
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,320
>> I'm not sure I understand.

1146
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,800
>> Is there a limit to residents in these units?

1147
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,199
>> Well, our sub chapter 12 of the Ditten Development Code

1148
00:52:54,199 --> 00:52:56,079
has a maximum of non-related

1149
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,679
persons per dwelling unit is four.

1150
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:03,400
I don't know if you put four in one of these, but that-

1151
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,400
>> So they could have four sleeping on the couch or

1152
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,320
something.

1153
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:07,960
That's what you're saying.

1154
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,199
I'm not saying they want to.

1155
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:13,320
I'm just wondering if that's the legal- >> I don't know of

1156
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,320
any other requirement besides

1157
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,920
that one that I just stated.

1158
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,800
Ron may know otherwise.

1159
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,760
>> No, Julie's correct.

1160
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,840
For each unit, rental unit or whatnot, it's four unrelated

1161
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:26,800
persons.

1162
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,840
Now do they have four in one?

1163
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,559
We don't know, but that's our maximum.

1164
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:32,639
>> That's all I want to know.

1165
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:33,599
Thank you.

1166
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:35,880
>> The chair recognizes Ms. Briggle.

1167
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:36,880
>> Thank you, Chair.

1168
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:37,880
>> And I apologize for not- >> It's all right.

1169
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:38,920
>> Did this. >> You know I don't yield.

1170
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,440
I'll get my voice heard eventually.

1171
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:41,840
>> Absolutely.

1172
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,210
>> So you know from my time on PNZ, I'm a big picture

1173
00:53:45,210 --> 00:53:46,039
person.

1174
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:49,719
So my question for Ron and Julie is how,

1175
00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:54,880
tell me about the Denton 2030 plan, right?

1176
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,760
I'm looking at walkability.

1177
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,639
I'm looking at a dense urban core.

1178
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:03,059
I'm looking at, these are the goals that we're trying to

1179
00:54:03,059 --> 00:54:04,320
accomplish through our

1180
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,090
comprehensive plan, maybe rewriting the code hasn't caught

1181
00:54:08,090 --> 00:54:09,199
up to that yet.

1182
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:14,039
So how does fewer parking spaces and

1183
00:54:14,039 --> 00:54:18,440
more units in the dense downtown area,

1184
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,719
how does that further our goals for the 2030 plan?

1185
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,679
>> Can we consider that?

1186
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:27,960
>> Sure, the way we look at the Dent plan 2030, and

1187
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,679
we've identified the core area to be more dense.

1188
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:34,480
And the downtown implementation or

1189
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,420
the downtown plan also addresses more residential

1190
00:54:37,420 --> 00:54:40,079
development in the downtown area.

1191
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:45,889
Now, there are incentives that entice or create multifamily

1192
00:54:45,889 --> 00:54:45,960
,

1193
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,960
but it's typically related to mixed use development.

1194
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,679
So if there's another use that's associated with this,

1195
00:54:53,679 --> 00:54:59,239
that would be more of a preference than just multifamily.

1196
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:04,719
Now, we also have the code in place that we have to follow.

1197
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,320
And we certainly are looking at ways to increase more

1198
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,840
residential.

1199
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,840
But right now, that is what we have to work with.

1200
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,250
And I know our goal is to get more density, but we have to

1201
00:55:18,250 --> 00:55:18,559
also be

1202
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:22,130
cognizant of providing enough parking that it does not

1203
00:55:22,130 --> 00:55:24,800
impact adjacent properties as well.

1204
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,380
>> Sure, but so you're saying if this particular

1205
00:55:28,380 --> 00:55:30,199
development were considered mixed use,

1206
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:35,199
like retail on the ground floor and then residential, but

1207
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:35,320
the whole area is pretty much mixed use.

1208
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,760
I mean, we've got, gosh, the A train across the street.

1209
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,760
We've got a tech startup across the street.

1210
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,809
We've got dining and shopping and residential all right in

1211
00:55:45,809 --> 00:55:46,360
there.

1212
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,000
So the whole area is mixed use, though this development

1213
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,320
itself isn't mixed use.

1214
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:52,599
It's part of that bigger picture.

1215
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:54,760
>> No, you bring up a good point.

1216
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,320
The A train, there is an area within walking distance of

1217
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,320
the A train that

1218
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,239
again, all we have to work with is mixed use.

1219
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,210
But if in the future we decide to incorporate transit

1220
00:56:07,210 --> 00:56:08,719
oriented development,

1221
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,219
that could also provide incentives to lessen the parking

1222
00:56:12,219 --> 00:56:13,400
requirements.

1223
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:18,639
We did go through a parking code update to allow for

1224
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:21,800
within the central business district no parking

1225
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,320
requirements for ten units or less.

1226
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,840
So again, to generate more housing in the downtown.

1227
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,039
But of course, this is much more than ten units.

1228
00:56:32,039 --> 00:56:34,920
And unfortunately, that's again, going back to the code,

1229
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,920
that's what we would require.

1230
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,000
>> But we are looking at the parking requirements as part

1231
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:41,480
of the debt and

1232
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:46,760
development code rewrite as part of the debt plan 2030, so.

1233
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,000
>> Okay, because I'm also thinking to like walkability and

1234
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:50,639
bikeability.

1235
00:56:50,639 --> 00:56:53,239
These are, I mean, this is what kind of got me into this

1236
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,960
civic service, was volunteering with the bike plan.

1237
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,119
So I'm just kind of looking at the bigger picture.

1238
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:01,559
So thanks for kind of, thank you for eliminating that.

1239
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,840
>> Any additional questions for Ms. Wyatt?

1240
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,539
I do have one comment as I started to think about what you

1241
00:57:10,539 --> 00:57:11,760
just said.

1242
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,559
And that is- >> Aren't you glad you gave me the mic?

1243
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:15,920
>> I would have given you the mic anyways.

1244
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,519
>> Sorry.

1245
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:25,159
>> But it's going from 48, which is all efficiency units.

1246
00:57:25,159 --> 00:57:31,239
>> I'm sorry, from 48 with 8 one bedrooms,

1247
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:38,119
12 two bedrooms and 16 efficiencies, which is 48.

1248
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:40,519
>> No, it's 36 to 48.

1249
00:57:40,519 --> 00:57:41,840
>> Did I miss, hold on.

1250
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,039
>> They are maintaining the same number of bedrooms.

1251
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:46,199
>> Yeah, same number of bedrooms though.

1252
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:47,920
>> Mm-hm.

1253
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,159
>> Does that make sense?

1254
00:57:49,159 --> 00:57:52,719
So 48 to 48, but the parking spaces are changed.

1255
00:57:52,719 --> 00:57:55,429
>> Which I understand why, but I just wanted to clarify

1256
00:57:55,429 --> 00:57:56,000
that the number of

1257
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,000
bedrooms is actually staying the same.

1258
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,840
Did I get that right?

1259
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:00,519
>> Yes sir. >> Okay.

1260
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:03,119
Any additional questions?

1261
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:07,079
Thank you very much.

1262
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:08,800
>> Thank you, and the applicant is yours.

1263
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:09,679
>> Okay.

1264
00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:11,679
All right, we'll go ahead and have the applicant come up.

1265
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:15,599
Not by me, you can't.

1266
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:16,119
>> No.

1267
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:20,260
>> Mostly because I probably couldn't figure out how to do

1268
00:58:20,260 --> 00:58:21,280
it in time.

1269
00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:32,719
>> [INAUDIBLE]

1270
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:36,960
>> Is that you?

1271
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:37,679
>> I hope so.

1272
00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:42,320
>> It's the middle one.

1273
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:43,079
>> Is that you, presentation?

1274
00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:44,400
>> Middle one, yeah, presentation.

1275
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:45,559
>> There you go.

1276
00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:46,440
And with that?

1277
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,440
>> Yes. >> Awesome, all right.

1278
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,360
>> Okay, before you start, I need to go ahead and give you

1279
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:51,760
the oath.

1280
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,719
So could you please identify yourself for the record?

1281
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:56,079
>> Lee Allison.

1282
00:58:56,079 --> 00:58:58,130
>> Mr. Allison, will you please raise your right hand to be

1283
00:58:58,130 --> 00:58:58,599
sworn in?

1284
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,880
Under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm that any

1285
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,599
testimony or

1286
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:07,880
information you provide or any statement you make before

1287
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,639
this board is complete,

1288
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:14,059
true, and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability

1289
00:59:14,059 --> 00:59:14,360
?

1290
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:15,360
>> Yes, I do.

1291
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:16,760
>> Thank you very much, you may proceed.

1292
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,000
>> Last time I did that, I was in a lot of trouble.

1293
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,760
But my name's Lee Allison with Allison Engineering Group.

1294
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,409
With me this evening are Flamora Meddy, the owner developer

1295
00:59:26,409 --> 00:59:27,400
, and

1296
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,360
Lance Holdorf, our project manager.

1297
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,920
Let me see if I can figure out how to, there we go.

1298
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,139
As it's already been mentioned, we have an approved site

1299
00:59:35,139 --> 00:59:35,480
plan.

1300
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,809
You can see the red lettering approval in the bottom right

1301
00:59:37,809 --> 00:59:38,519
hand corner.

1302
00:59:40,340 --> 00:59:42,360
This is a great site for this location.

1303
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,039
This project's under construction.

1304
00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:45,280
The apartments are going there.

1305
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,690
We don't deny in any way that this hardship prevents

1306
00:59:48,690 --> 00:59:49,679
apartments or

1307
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:51,039
multifamily from going there.

1308
00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:53,760
It's happening right now.

1309
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,880
This particular site, I'll get into more details later.

1310
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,039
But each bedroom has its own bathroom with it.

1311
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:05,480
It is intended for individual occupancy, similar to most.

1312
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,880
But it's geared more towards the single professional.

1313
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,159
Not geared towards students, so some may be there, and

1314
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:15,639
it's not really geared towards family.

1315
01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:17,920
Additionally, though not well shown on here, we do have

1316
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,840
spaces for bike racks.

1317
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,170
And we've discussed the possibility in the future, if

1318
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:23,360
biking becomes more and

1319
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,079
more popular, we could take a parking space and convert it

1320
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:29,039
to additional bike racks.

1321
01:00:29,039 --> 01:00:31,480
Some information on the site, that is an approved building

1322
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:31,920
permit.

1323
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,559
It's under construction.

1324
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:38,639
It has 36 apartments consisting of 48 bedrooms and 53

1325
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:40,039
parking spaces.

1326
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,199
And that does meet the DDC requirements.

1327
01:00:43,159 --> 01:00:47,579
The DDC parking criteria is based on occupancy of

1328
01:00:47,579 --> 01:00:49,000
apartments, primarily for families.

1329
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:53,409
It's an old historical basis for determining parking space

1330
01:00:53,409 --> 01:00:54,000
requirements.

1331
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,400
The proposed occupancy is expected to be primarily young

1332
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,679
professionals, students,

1333
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:01,159
etc., singles.

1334
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:02,639
And the city, as Julie mentioned earlier,

1335
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:05,000
is working on updates to the parking criteria.

1336
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,159
So we're not sure that what's in the books now is

1337
01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:10,320
necessarily appropriate.

1338
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,940
I can envision different places for family-oriented

1339
01:01:12,940 --> 01:01:13,840
apartments, for

1340
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,280
student-oriented apartments, and for young professionals,

1341
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:21,159
downtown walking, biking-type oriented districts.

1342
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:23,960
On other projects, we found studies that show that students

1343
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:25,000
within walking distance

1344
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,400
of a campus only require 70% of the parking.

1345
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,039
If they're within mass transit, 80 to 85%,

1346
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:36,449
this site is in the proximity to and nature of downtown

1347
01:01:36,449 --> 01:01:37,039
area.

1348
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:39,969
People are not gonna necessarily throw parties in their

1349
01:01:39,969 --> 01:01:41,800
houses or in their apartments.

1350
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,719
We're not providing party space or recreational space.

1351
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,679
Those are in outdoor, the 8% required, but more for

1352
01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:48,519
relaxation,

1353
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:50,599
having coffee, playing horseshoes.

1354
01:01:50,599 --> 01:01:55,280
We expect the students will walk to the A train, take it to

1355
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:55,880
Dallas or

1356
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,280
Fort Worth or wherever they need to go.

1357
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,650
They'll go to the square, they'll go to the coffee shops

1358
01:02:00,650 --> 01:02:00,960
and

1359
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,179
the jazz places and different venues that are in that

1360
01:02:04,179 --> 01:02:05,440
immediate area.

1361
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,199
They're not really gonna gather in their place.

1362
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:10,880
They'll socialize outside of the place.

1363
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,000
Right now, the number of units existing or

1364
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,519
what's under construction is 36 units with a mixture of

1365
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:18,360
bedrooms.

1366
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,760
We're proposing 48 units, all studio.

1367
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:23,719
The current number of bedrooms is 48.

1368
01:02:23,719 --> 01:02:26,599
The proposed number of bedrooms will be 48.

1369
01:02:26,599 --> 01:02:29,980
The number of parking spaces required is 53 and we're

1370
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:31,840
proposing 53.

1371
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,920
The same number of bedrooms for the same occupancy,

1372
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,559
but within the understanding some of the conundrums on the

1373
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:38,760
site are existing as

1374
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,360
we're building it today.

1375
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,170
If you're concerned about how many people can be in a one

1376
01:02:43,170 --> 01:02:43,679
bedroom,

1377
01:02:43,679 --> 01:02:46,639
well those same people could be in the one bedrooms on the

1378
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:47,719
36 unit site or

1379
01:02:47,719 --> 01:02:51,400
even in the two bedrooms on the 36 unit site.

1380
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,519
Again, this is a four story building.

1381
01:02:53,519 --> 01:02:57,480
By going to the younger professional types, we think the

1382
01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:58,960
one bedrooms are better.

1383
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,369
The DDC parking required is for the place we have right now

1384
01:03:03,369 --> 01:03:04,920
, 53 spaces.

1385
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,940
Under the current code, whether you use the one and a

1386
01:03:06,940 --> 01:03:07,480
quarter or

1387
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,679
one and a half number per unit range, it could be anywhere

1388
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:11,760
from 60 to as many as

1389
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,719
72 required depending on the size.

1390
01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:17,599
The occupancy, we're marketing to single professionals and

1391
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:18,159
students and

1392
01:03:18,159 --> 01:03:20,119
that'll be the same regardless.

1393
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:22,570
And the site plan building footprint, it's already

1394
01:03:22,570 --> 01:03:23,079
permitted,

1395
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:25,039
it's under construction.

1396
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:29,880
In fact, the owner will incur additional cost for this to

1397
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:30,639
make the change,

1398
01:03:30,639 --> 01:03:33,210
because he's got to get into some structural and floor plan

1399
01:03:33,210 --> 01:03:33,800
changes.

1400
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,230
But his rough plumbing will come up where it is now on the

1401
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:37,000
bottom units and

1402
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,599
it'll go straight up into the upper units.

1403
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:43,719
So he's not really, it's something he can do in midstream,

1404
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:44,719
but at the same time,

1405
01:03:44,719 --> 01:03:46,679
it's still additional expense to him to get it done.

1406
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:50,340
He's not coming here to save, he's coming here to provide a

1407
01:03:50,340 --> 01:03:51,039
product that he

1408
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:53,800
thinks better fits into that neighborhood.

1409
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,760
>> You've seen the Dinton Dell Development Code

1410
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,039
requirements that Julie presented

1411
01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:58,559
earlier.

1412
01:03:58,559 --> 01:03:59,639
I say questions.

1413
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,360
Actually, I think I've answered all the things I wanted to

1414
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:06,599
respond to up front,

1415
01:04:06,599 --> 01:04:07,440
that Julie mentioned.

1416
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,400
Is there anything I can address at this moment?

1417
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,639
>> Are there any questions for Mr. Allison?

1418
01:04:12,639 --> 01:04:14,360
>> Can I make a point of clarity?

1419
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,599
>> Yes. >> Lee, can you go back to that chart real quick,

1420
01:04:16,599 --> 01:04:19,079
just to clarify with the board?

1421
01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:20,000
>> I can lose the whole thing.

1422
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:20,500
>> Uh-oh.

1423
01:04:24,159 --> 01:04:24,639
>> This chart?

1424
01:04:24,639 --> 01:04:26,320
>> Yeah, that chart right there.

1425
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,960
You said the very last column, site plan slash building

1426
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:30,880
footprint,

1427
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,920
the 48 all studio is not currently permitted, right?

1428
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,639
It's just the first column.

1429
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,960
>> Yes, yeah, to help clarify, the building is permitted

1430
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,159
under construction.

1431
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:46,760
Now, it has not been permitted with all studios.

1432
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,960
It has been permitted with the mix in the-

1433
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:50,719
>> Okay, just to clarify that.

1434
01:04:50,719 --> 01:04:53,760
>> Yeah. >> We don't have a permitted

1435
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,480
permit for- >> Well, and I was trying to,

1436
01:04:57,639 --> 01:04:59,679
didn't accentuate it very well, but that's the reason I put

1437
01:04:59,679 --> 01:05:01,239
site plan building footprint.

1438
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:04,599
I didn't put the floor plans are permitted to help.

1439
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:06,519
>> Site plan includes- >> Acknowledge your-

1440
01:05:06,519 --> 01:05:07,280
>> Okay. >> Yeah.

1441
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,239
>> So, hold on a minute, let me make sure I'm clarifying

1442
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:10,239
your clarification.

1443
01:05:10,239 --> 01:05:10,739
>> Okay.

1444
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:19,690
>> The first column, we have a site plan for, right, and

1445
01:05:19,690 --> 01:05:20,800
that's all permitted.

1446
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:21,519
>> Yes.

1447
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:24,719
>> As well as the building footprints and floor plans.

1448
01:05:24,719 --> 01:05:30,000
>> For the 16 studio, the 8 one bedrooms, and the 12?

1449
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:30,960
>> Yes. >> Okay.

1450
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:31,920
>> That's under construction.

1451
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,559
>> What you want to do is you really want to change your

1452
01:05:35,559 --> 01:05:36,119
plan to-

1453
01:05:36,119 --> 01:05:37,800
>> Not the site plan.

1454
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,119
>> But the construction plan.

1455
01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:42,239
>> Yeah, the room configuration.

1456
01:05:42,239 --> 01:05:42,739
>> Okay.

1457
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:45,960
Thank you.

1458
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:47,559
>> It's even hard for me to keep up with, and

1459
01:05:47,559 --> 01:05:50,360
I've been working on the project for a while, so.

1460
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:51,639
>> Yes, anything else?

1461
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:55,679
All right, thank you.

1462
01:05:55,679 --> 01:05:56,179
>> You're welcome.

1463
01:05:59,679 --> 01:06:02,239
Anyone speaking for the applicant?

1464
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:03,840
Any additional folks for the applicant?

1465
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,360
Okay, no additional speakers for the applicant.

1466
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:16,840
We do have, I think it was stated seven, I'm sorry, back up

1467
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:17,079
.

1468
01:06:17,079 --> 01:06:21,360
There is a speaker that is requested in opposition,

1469
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:26,920
Miss Jennifer Lane of 1526 Willowwood Street.

1470
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:28,880
Miss Lane, would you like to speak?

1471
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,519
Okay, now Miss Lane, you were previously sworn in, and

1472
01:06:33,519 --> 01:06:35,039
you understand you're still under oath.

1473
01:06:35,039 --> 01:06:39,639
>> Sure, yes, and whereas in the previous application,

1474
01:06:39,639 --> 01:06:44,059
my opposition was not based on disagreeing with the

1475
01:06:44,059 --> 01:06:45,400
principle of wanting the sign to

1476
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:50,159
be visible, it was based on confusion of signs,

1477
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:53,039
perhaps, in that site just from what I looked at.

1478
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:56,869
This is really much more of a strong opposition to the idea

1479
01:06:56,869 --> 01:06:57,159
.

1480
01:06:57,159 --> 01:07:00,849
Again, I took a look at the site personally, and there are

1481
01:07:00,849 --> 01:07:03,079
homes around there, very, very close.

1482
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:06,719
It's a congested area with private homes all around.

1483
01:07:06,719 --> 01:07:13,170
Also, under the current plan, one person driving may come

1484
01:07:13,170 --> 01:07:14,400
to visit two or

1485
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:19,079
more people in a couple situation, whereas you may have

1486
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:20,400
many more

1487
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:25,949
visiting automobiles around, visiting the single occupancy

1488
01:07:25,949 --> 01:07:26,719
idea.

1489
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:28,840
People don't know each other in the 48 bedroom plan,

1490
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,719
whereas they may be in relationships

1491
01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:34,429
in this 36 bedroom plan, the two bedroom units and so forth

1492
01:07:34,429 --> 01:07:34,679
.

1493
01:07:34,679 --> 01:07:39,320
Also, some couples may have one car.

1494
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,170
The parking may accommodate them much more easily than many

1495
01:07:43,170 --> 01:07:44,760
, many individuals.

1496
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:51,900
And finally, the issue around parking with the new plan is

1497
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:53,079
simply congestion.

1498
01:07:53,079 --> 01:07:55,360
Strikes me as a heavy congestion of parking.

1499
01:07:56,599 --> 01:07:59,969
Visitors not really entirely accommodated having to spill

1500
01:07:59,969 --> 01:08:01,800
out onto the street.

1501
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:06,210
Young people either currently or just out of school,

1502
01:08:06,210 --> 01:08:07,559
possibly doubling up,

1503
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:15,079
or having frequent visitors more than might be on the lease

1504
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:15,079
.

1505
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:18,659
And that this would spill over into the neighborhood and

1506
01:08:18,659 --> 01:08:20,479
even into the,

1507
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,909
to making it an unsafe situation even for the congested

1508
01:08:23,909 --> 01:08:24,840
urban idea.

1509
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:25,960
That's it.

1510
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,199
>> Okay.

1511
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:28,720
>> Thanks. >> Any questions of Ms. Lane?

1512
01:08:31,199 --> 01:08:31,720
Thank you.

1513
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:32,520
Thank you again, Ms. Lane.

1514
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:39,840
>> Okay, in addition to Ms. Lane, we have two, three, four

1515
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:45,859
individuals that are speaking by, they sent in an

1516
01:08:45,859 --> 01:08:47,039
opposition notice.

1517
01:08:48,159 --> 01:08:50,199
I'm sorry, looks like three.

1518
01:08:50,199 --> 01:08:54,039
Although I believe staff commented that there were seven.

1519
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,229
>> One of them had owned several properties within that

1520
01:09:00,229 --> 01:09:01,760
boundary.

1521
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,210
What I'd like to do is go ahead and circulate these to the

1522
01:09:05,210 --> 01:09:07,119
commissioners for their review.

1523
01:09:07,119 --> 01:09:07,960
Let me go ahead for the record.

1524
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:09,560
>> I've provided one to everyone.

1525
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:15,130
>> For the record, let me go ahead and state who the

1526
01:09:15,130 --> 01:09:17,000
opposing party was.

1527
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,960
Arthur V King at 315 South Locust Street.

1528
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:32,760
And looks like Mr. King has about a two page opposition.

1529
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,079
I'd ask the commissioners to review that.

1530
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:41,909
Then we have an email from Mr. Leary Culvert with the Bell

1531
01:09:41,909 --> 01:09:43,720
Avenue Self Storage

1532
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:50,920
at PO Box 687 Denton, Texas 76202.

1533
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,699
And he supplied an email again, if he would review that in

1534
01:09:54,699 --> 01:09:56,039
consideration.

1535
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:03,569
The third one is Sandra Marsh at 5513 Woodland Hills Drive,

1536
01:10:03,569 --> 01:10:07,399
Denton, Texas 76208.

1537
01:10:07,399 --> 01:10:11,020
And Ms. Marsh says there is plenty of parking issues

1538
01:10:11,020 --> 01:10:13,560
already without creating any more.

1539
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,399
I read hers only because it was short.

1540
01:10:19,279 --> 01:10:22,189
I would ask, and we're going to go ahead and incorporate

1541
01:10:22,189 --> 01:10:25,390
those into the record for consideration by the commission

1542
01:10:25,390 --> 01:10:25,720
ers.

1543
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:30,630
At this point, if there is any other folks speaking in

1544
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:34,399
favor or in opposition of the variant request.

1545
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:42,560
Okay, hearing no folks speaking in favor or in opposition,

1546
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,800
I'm going to open the floor to the commissioners to discuss

1547
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:47,199
the particular item.

1548
01:10:49,039 --> 01:10:51,560
I'm sorry, I need to go ahead and close the public meeting.

1549
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:56,439
Okay, at this point, the floor recognizes Mr. House.

1550
01:10:58,159 --> 01:10:58,680
>> Thank you.

1551
01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:03,819
I used to live in that area, and I think we can all agree

1552
01:11:03,819 --> 01:11:07,840
that parking is at a premium downtown.

1553
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,319
Even a stone's throw from the square.

1554
01:11:11,319 --> 01:11:15,899
And I would say that the original plans for the apartment

1555
01:11:15,899 --> 01:11:16,960
building,

1556
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,829
listing two bedroom and one bedroom apartments, even though

1557
01:11:19,829 --> 01:11:22,689
they're advertising to a certain group that isn't changing,

1558
01:11:22,689 --> 01:11:24,439
is still going to draw families.

1559
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,329
And I lived there, I met a family of four that were living

1560
01:11:27,329 --> 01:11:30,359
in a two bedroom apartment because they preferred it.

1561
01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:33,300
And they did only have one car because the husband traveled

1562
01:11:33,300 --> 01:11:34,439
by train to Dallas.

1563
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:40,060
But for me, after ten years in law enforcement and having

1564
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:41,319
lived downtown as well,

1565
01:11:41,319 --> 01:11:46,279
to think that a 48 occupancy, even if they are only one

1566
01:11:46,279 --> 01:11:48,159
young adult at a time,

1567
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:51,069
won't have people come over to entertain, to stay the

1568
01:11:51,069 --> 01:11:53,199
weekend, stay the night, stay a week.

1569
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:59,699
Is and say that five spare parking spots is enough, I just

1570
01:11:59,699 --> 01:12:00,319
don't see it.

1571
01:12:01,399 --> 01:12:05,819
I think that an increase of units requires an increase in

1572
01:12:05,819 --> 01:12:07,159
parking as well.

1573
01:12:07,159 --> 01:12:10,449
Because there are going to be couples moving into some of

1574
01:12:10,449 --> 01:12:11,760
these apartments.

1575
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,560
They are going to have guests over.

1576
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,890
And being at that intersection, they're not going to be

1577
01:12:16,890 --> 01:12:18,319
able to park on bill.

1578
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:19,600
Because it's a main thoroughfare.

1579
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,930
They're not, police department, I cannot see them allowing

1580
01:12:21,930 --> 01:12:23,000
anybody to park on bill.

1581
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,159
That just leaves industrial in the neighborhood around.

1582
01:12:25,159 --> 01:12:28,189
Which is going to be, I think, an increased burden upon the

1583
01:12:28,189 --> 01:12:31,800
residents that own homes or rent homes in that neighborhood

1584
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:31,800
.

1585
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,329
Who now have to deal with young people parking from their

1586
01:12:35,329 --> 01:12:39,250
homes and cutting across their yards and so on and so forth

1587
01:12:39,250 --> 01:12:39,560
.

1588
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:43,210
Okay, so in my opinion, I think that I would have to agree

1589
01:12:43,210 --> 01:12:46,039
with staff on this one and deny the variance.

1590
01:12:46,039 --> 01:12:48,399
If they want to increase the number of units, I think they

1591
01:12:48,399 --> 01:12:50,840
need to find a way to increase the amount of parking.

1592
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,890
Or to stick with their original floor plan for the

1593
01:12:52,890 --> 01:12:53,960
apartment building.

1594
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,199
Thank you.

1595
01:12:55,199 --> 01:12:58,119
>> Chair recognizes Ms. Bruegel.

1596
01:12:58,119 --> 01:12:59,079
>> Thank you, Chair.

1597
01:12:59,079 --> 01:13:00,439
Mr. House, I disagree with you.

1598
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:06,180
I see the number of bedrooms is essentially staying the

1599
01:13:06,180 --> 01:13:07,039
same.

1600
01:13:07,039 --> 01:13:11,460
And I think that generally speaking, someone who's going to

1601
01:13:11,460 --> 01:13:12,840
move into an efficiency or

1602
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,390
studio downtown, though it may be a couple, is more likely

1603
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:18,760
than not going to be a single person.

1604
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:23,170
That said, my husband and I have been married for 16 years

1605
01:13:23,170 --> 01:13:26,439
and just last year we finally got a second car.

1606
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:28,949
And we only did that because we have kids who have things

1607
01:13:28,949 --> 01:13:30,279
on opposite ends of town.

1608
01:13:30,279 --> 01:13:35,350
So when I use my imagination and think about who's going to

1609
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:36,399
be moving into these apartments,

1610
01:13:36,399 --> 01:13:41,800
I'm thinking young professionals, singles, students who,

1611
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,359
the younger generation, a lot of them don't have cars, aren

1612
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:45,840
't interested in getting a car.

1613
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:50,260
We're working on, we've got the bikes for rent downtown now

1614
01:13:50,260 --> 01:13:50,600
.

1615
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,760
We've got the A train across the street.

1616
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:54,159
It's walkable.

1617
01:13:54,159 --> 01:13:56,550
And again, I'm seeing this more as a big picture sort of

1618
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:57,039
thing.

1619
01:13:57,039 --> 01:14:02,079
We're getting more units in a dense part of town and

1620
01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:06,489
also encouraging people to use alternative modes of

1621
01:14:06,489 --> 01:14:07,479
transportation.

1622
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,989
So for that reason, I'm in favor of this, especially

1623
01:14:10,989 --> 01:14:13,239
because the number of units is increasing,

1624
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:16,079
the number of bedrooms is staying the same, so therefore

1625
01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:18,649
the number of occupants is probably going to be also the

1626
01:14:18,649 --> 01:14:19,159
same.

1627
01:14:19,159 --> 01:14:22,250
And I would think probably less of a chance of there being

1628
01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:24,579
more cars because there's probably more singles moving into

1629
01:14:24,579 --> 01:14:25,319
this than

1630
01:14:25,319 --> 01:14:28,170
if you had a two bedroom, you might have a couple in one

1631
01:14:28,170 --> 01:14:30,000
and then a roommate over here.

1632
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,359
And so I'm actually in favor of this.

1633
01:14:32,359 --> 01:14:38,199
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Sarratt.

1634
01:14:38,199 --> 01:14:43,600
>> I agree with Mr. House.

1635
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:45,359
I live near downtown.

1636
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:50,000
I chose my house because it is walkable, but I have a car.

1637
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,409
And I've had friends who had apartments, maybe where you

1638
01:14:52,409 --> 01:14:56,199
had an apartment or where you lived near downtown.

1639
01:14:56,199 --> 01:14:58,479
And it was a couple and they both had cars.

1640
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:02,159
And whenever I would visit their place, their apartment,

1641
01:15:02,159 --> 01:15:04,560
there was no parking place department, so I had to park on

1642
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:05,199
the street.

1643
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,079
I just feel that since this is a neighborhood, we need to

1644
01:15:10,079 --> 01:15:11,960
be considered the neighbors.

1645
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:16,279
And I wish there were, and I do not want cars.

1646
01:15:16,279 --> 01:15:18,640
I would love to be without a car.

1647
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,029
But I don't want to be disingenuous about it either, that

1648
01:15:22,029 --> 01:15:25,069
there will be cars and that we will be impacting the

1649
01:15:25,069 --> 01:15:25,880
neighbors.

1650
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,880
>> Okay.

1651
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:30,439
>> Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins.

1652
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:40,010
>> In reading through the application and listening to Lee

1653
01:15:40,010 --> 01:15:41,720
Allison,

1654
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:47,119
my overall reaction was that the argument in favor of

1655
01:15:47,119 --> 01:15:53,229
keeping the number of parking spaces at 53 were facile at

1656
01:15:53,229 --> 01:15:53,800
best.

1657
01:15:55,119 --> 01:16:00,069
The applicant wants to increase in the same footprint occup

1658
01:16:00,069 --> 01:16:03,800
ancy of 36 units up to 48 units.

1659
01:16:05,279 --> 01:16:09,920
That's going to be more people, although they say it may

1660
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,039
not be.

1661
01:16:11,039 --> 01:16:12,119
I think that it will be.

1662
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:17,920
In my opinion, speaking maybe more plainly than I should,

1663
01:16:19,199 --> 01:16:24,220
the owner wants to get as much value out of that piece of

1664
01:16:24,220 --> 01:16:27,199
property as possible.

1665
01:16:28,279 --> 01:16:32,090
And this is the case of Rackham and Stackham, generate

1666
01:16:32,090 --> 01:16:35,199
traffic, generate more parking problems.

1667
01:16:35,199 --> 01:16:40,760
And I'm all in favor of somebody building a useful building

1668
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:42,720
that's advantageous to the community.

1669
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,359
But I think this is too far to one side.

1670
01:16:45,359 --> 01:16:49,090
I think there is really no consideration given to traffic

1671
01:16:49,090 --> 01:16:49,399
and

1672
01:16:49,399 --> 01:16:52,520
quality of life in our community, especially close to

1673
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:53,359
downtown.

1674
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:54,039
So I oppose it.

1675
01:16:57,920 --> 01:16:59,439
>> Any additional comments?

1676
01:16:59,439 --> 01:16:59,960
Mr. Baker.

1677
01:17:01,159 --> 01:17:02,159
>> I got one.

1678
01:17:02,159 --> 01:17:05,600
I know one of the business owners in the area, so

1679
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:10,119
I don't know if that would affect me on this board or not.

1680
01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:16,239
But I do have my opinions of what my opinion is.

1681
01:17:16,239 --> 01:17:21,029
But I just want to let, I don't want to get in trouble, don

1682
01:17:21,029 --> 01:17:23,039
't want anybody to get in trouble.

1683
01:17:23,039 --> 01:17:27,880
But I do know one of the owners, so, or pretty close.

1684
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,979
>> That shouldn't prevent you from voting on it or giving

1685
01:17:29,979 --> 01:17:30,640
your opinion.

1686
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:33,000
>> Okay.

1687
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,319
>> Now you don't have a financial reason for-

1688
01:17:36,319 --> 01:17:37,039
>> No.

1689
01:17:37,039 --> 01:17:38,239
>> Okay, you're probably okay.

1690
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:45,920
>> Well, I guess probably, I'll probably tell my age.

1691
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,760
But anyway, I grew up here.

1692
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:56,640
Those streets and all over in there were kind of narrow and

1693
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:58,960
all that when I was growing up here.

1694
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:04,770
So the parking would be kindly bad, but if you could, on

1695
01:18:04,770 --> 01:18:06,319
that street.

1696
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:11,640
But I have seen, when they have festivals and stuff in that

1697
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:12,079
area,

1698
01:18:12,079 --> 01:18:15,460
I've seen cars plumb over to Belle Avenue and everywhere

1699
01:18:15,460 --> 01:18:16,039
else.

1700
01:18:16,039 --> 01:18:25,000
So I don't know about what I'm trying to say.

1701
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:29,640
But the parking would be a little rough, it really would.

1702
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,970
But like you're talking about, with their bicycles and all

1703
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:35,399
this, and

1704
01:18:35,399 --> 01:18:38,000
I'm glad to see them doing that too.

1705
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,359
And it is closed if people wanted to walk.

1706
01:18:41,359 --> 01:18:44,880
I mean, you got all these restaurants and like they say,

1707
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:44,960
but

1708
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:49,319
the parking is really the problem in this town, really.

1709
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:56,350
Downtown, if it had more parking, it would be great for

1710
01:18:56,350 --> 01:18:56,960
downtown.

1711
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,479
And I'd love to see the downtown come back,

1712
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:04,100
because when I grew up here, like I say, this square was

1713
01:19:04,100 --> 01:19:05,079
downtown.

1714
01:19:05,079 --> 01:19:06,000
Thank you.

1715
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:07,239
>> Any additional comments?

1716
01:19:08,359 --> 01:19:10,640
Well, I guess I'm going to weigh in myself.

1717
01:19:12,359 --> 01:19:15,739
In some respects, I agree with Ms. Brighill, but to be

1718
01:19:15,739 --> 01:19:17,039
honest with you,

1719
01:19:17,039 --> 01:19:19,930
I don't think they've met the requirement for a variance by

1720
01:19:19,930 --> 01:19:20,640
any means.

1721
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:26,239
And the reason I say that is they still have a site plan

1722
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:27,840
that's been approved

1723
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,800
that they can build on, there's no uniqueness of the

1724
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:31,640
property.

1725
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,350
There's nothing really unique about it, it's really just

1726
01:19:34,350 --> 01:19:35,800
more of a personal,

1727
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,479
I'd rather have this versus that.

1728
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:42,159
So because of that, I have to, if there is a motion,

1729
01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:47,359
I've got a vote not in favor with agreement with Mr. House.

1730
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,479
So saying all that, does anyone want to make a motion?

1731
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:56,880
There's a motion by Mr. House.

1732
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:58,079
Is there a second to the motion?

1733
01:19:58,079 --> 01:19:59,800
>> Second to the motion.

1734
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:01,640
>> I'm sorry, you need to say what the motion is.

1735
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:03,319
>> I'm sorry.

1736
01:20:03,319 --> 01:20:05,680
>> Wait, I was getting there, I promise you.

1737
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,340
When you have a meeting once every six months, you got that

1738
01:20:08,340 --> 01:20:08,520
.

1739
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,680
>> Yes.

1740
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,279
>> Mr. House, would you like to make a motion?

1741
01:20:12,279 --> 01:20:13,640
>> I would, thank you.

1742
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,319
I would like to make a motion to deny the variance.

1743
01:20:16,319 --> 01:20:18,760
>> Okay, do we have a second?

1744
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:19,640
>> Second that motion.

1745
01:20:21,159 --> 01:20:23,279
>> Mr. Schrotz seconds it.

1746
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:25,520
Any additional discussion on the motion?

1747
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:31,390
Hearing no discussion, all in favor of denying the variance

1748
01:20:31,390 --> 01:20:31,800
?

1749
01:20:33,039 --> 01:20:35,119
Let's have a hand raise, I guess.

1750
01:20:35,119 --> 01:20:39,640
Okay, there's all in favor except for Ms. Briegel.

1751
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:40,399
Any against?

1752
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:43,319
Ms. Briegel, thank you very much.

1753
01:20:43,319 --> 01:20:44,279
>> Thank you.

1754
01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:44,800
>> Okay.

1755
01:20:49,039 --> 01:20:53,560
So agenda item C3 has been withdrawn.

1756
01:20:55,239 --> 01:21:01,460
And that was ZBA 17-002, which was the solar panel

1757
01:21:01,460 --> 01:21:03,359
structure.

1758
01:21:03,359 --> 01:21:05,359
Okay, future agenda items.

1759
01:21:05,359 --> 01:21:08,680
At this point in time, if any of the commissioners want

1760
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:14,920
to hear anything specific from city staff or bring

1761
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:19,340
to the commission anything that may not be brought by other

1762
01:21:19,340 --> 01:21:20,000
means,

1763
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,670
this is the time to be able to go ahead and voice your

1764
01:21:22,670 --> 01:21:23,760
thoughts.

1765
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:27,279
And since we only have met once in the last six months,

1766
01:21:27,279 --> 01:21:29,510
if you want to give it some thought, you probably have

1767
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:32,079
several months to give it some thought.

1768
01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:37,800
And you can let Ron know if there are some additional items

1769
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:38,119
.

1770
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,159
>> Floor recognizes Mr. Strout.

1771
01:21:41,159 --> 01:21:43,960
>> I was only going to ask if you do have any upcoming

1772
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,239
items that might call for us meeting.

1773
01:21:46,239 --> 01:21:49,810
>> We do, and I just wanted to mention the item that was

1774
01:21:49,810 --> 01:21:53,039
withdrawn will be coming forward next month.

1775
01:21:53,039 --> 01:21:57,500
There was a notice issue that we need to address, and

1776
01:21:57,500 --> 01:22:01,560
therefore we will have a meeting in October.

1777
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:05,970
We also put on the agenda the selection of a chair and vice

1778
01:22:05,970 --> 01:22:06,359
chair.

1779
01:22:06,359 --> 01:22:08,560
So there will be that as well.

1780
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:13,310
But I am welcoming any other items that you think you need

1781
01:22:13,310 --> 01:22:16,560
or want to see on next month's agenda.

1782
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:17,060
>> Okay.

1783
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:21,310
>> And you can email me that if you don't have it at this

1784
01:22:21,310 --> 01:22:22,079
time.

1785
01:22:22,079 --> 01:22:24,100
>> Any additional items for consideration for today's

1786
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:24,600
meeting?

1787
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:27,199
Okay, is there a motion to adjourn?

1788
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,039
>> I make a motion.

1789
01:22:30,039 --> 01:22:31,439
>> We adjourn.

1790
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:32,920
>> Motion made by Mr. Baker.

1791
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:34,439
Is there a second?

1792
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:36,319
>> Second. >> By Mr. Cole.

1793
01:22:36,319 --> 01:22:36,920
All in favor?

1794
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,600
All right, unanimous, I think.

1795
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:42,399
Mr. Higgins?

1796
01:22:44,199 --> 01:22:45,039
Thank you all again.

1797
01:22:45,039 --> 01:22:48,520
We appreciate the opportunity to serve the community.