WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.250
Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Traffic

00:00:04.250 --> 00:00:05.839
Safety Commission meeting

00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:12.710
of Monday February 5th 2018. It's 530 we have a quorum. We

00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:13.679
're going to look at the

00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:20.500
first item for individual consideration which is 1A TSC 18-

00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:22.839
006 which is to

00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:26.760
hold a discussion and appoint a chairperson and vice chair

00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:27.660
person for the

00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:40.840
Traffic Safety Commission. Do we have any nominations from

00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.159
the floor?

00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.159
I'll nominate Patrice's chair.

00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.159
Second.

00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:49.159
That was fast.

00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:51.159
We were already sitting there.

00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:55.159
I'll nominate Daniel Krupp for vice chair.

00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:57.159
I'll second.

00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:59.159
He shows up.

00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:01.159
Okay.

00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:09.159
Any other nominations? Any discussion? Any campaign stumps?

00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:11.159
Speech.

00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:17.159
I will make all your Traffic Safety Commission needs happen

00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:17.159
.

00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:22.159
Does that give you the guaranteed parking space?

00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:25.159
Yeah this could be corrupt real quick. No I'm kidding.

00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:29.159
Yeah I'd be happy to serve and I've worked with Patrice and

00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.159
I think can hopefully help out.

00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:34.159
Thank you.

00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.650
Alright shall we take a vote? We have a slate of chair and

00:01:38.650 --> 00:01:44.159
vice chair. Everyone agrees?

00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:48.159
Okay. I'm voting for you not for me.

00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:50.159
Okay.

00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.159
Moving on then.

00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:54.159
Excuse me.

00:01:54.159 --> 00:02:02.219
Okay. Item 1B TSC 18-007 is to consider the approval of the

00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:08.159
Traffic Safety Commission meetings of January 3rd, 2018.

00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.800
Did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes? Does

00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:17.159
anybody have any changes? Any amendments?

00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:23.159
Do I have to abstain from approving it since I wasn't here?

00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:32.159
I think that technically yes.

00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.159
Call for the vote.

00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.159
Anybody want to move approval?

00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:37.159
One motion.

00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.159
Okay. Second?

00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:40.159
Second.

00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:41.159
All in favor?

00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:42.159
Aye.

00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:43.159
Yes. Okay.

00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:44.159
With one abstention.

00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:54.830
With one abstention. Okay. And then 1C TCS 18-009 to

00:02:54.830 --> 00:02:58.159
receive a report, hold a discussion regarding short term

00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:03.159
small transportation projects.

00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:07.159
Thank you, Preetem.

00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:12.080
Good evening everyone. I'm Preetem Deshmukh, the traffic

00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:16.409
engineer for the city. And this item is, and the next one

00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:18.159
is a discussion item.

00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:24.020
Just no real actions are needed at this time. I just wanted

00:03:24.020 --> 00:03:27.840
to make sure that the Traffic Safety Commission was aware

00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.150
of what was going on in the council, what kind of projects

00:03:31.150 --> 00:03:34.159
are getting approved and moving forward,

00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.199
and why they were, some of them were kind of not really

00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:42.689
bypassed, but why they were really cut down on scheduled

00:03:42.689 --> 00:03:44.159
and expedited.

00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.800
It was a direct council request. So let me start with the

00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:52.159
first one, which is the small transportation projects.

00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:56.289
It all began, I think, back in August when the council,

00:03:56.289 --> 00:04:00.560
city council retreat happened, council gave direction to

00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:05.050
the executive team to come up with real short term, smaller

00:04:05.050 --> 00:04:08.159
projects that could fix intersections.

00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:22.160
So let me, actually, visual person.

00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:26.759
And so, the management team came to staff and they're like,

00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:31.199
which are these projects that we can actually move forward

00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:35.370
and address some of the congestion issues and we came up

00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:40.160
with a list and if you look at their list of intersections,

00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.959
we had a list of about 20 intersections and other

00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:48.470
improvement projects within that list. The first six based

00:04:48.470 --> 00:04:53.050
on the available funding were selected by council and these

00:04:53.050 --> 00:04:54.160
are the first six.

00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:58.720
And if you look at them, there are pretty much locations

00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:03.509
that are currently really congested, and I'll pull up a map

00:05:03.509 --> 00:05:07.579
and go over each of them a little bit detailed so you

00:05:07.579 --> 00:05:11.160
understand what the improvements are.

00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:17.160
So the first one is loop 288 and Colorado.

00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:25.160
I mean, everyone knows how bad it is.

00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.889
So if you look at, actually the aerial supports the finding

00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:34.420
so this is a small project, it's not a huge project that is

00:05:34.420 --> 00:05:38.930
going to widen any of these streets, but this project is

00:05:38.930 --> 00:05:43.310
going to at least begin to address some of the issues and

00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:44.160
if you look at this

00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.829
this is what was included in the project. What we were

00:05:47.829 --> 00:05:51.000
planning to do is add another left turn lane, remove the

00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.220
median, make two left turn lanes all the way extend up to

00:05:54.220 --> 00:05:55.160
this point.

00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.819
So everyone that's stacked up here and way back sometimes

00:05:59.819 --> 00:06:03.970
all the way to the bus stop, those can actually get into

00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:07.160
these two lanes and out of the through traffic.

00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:16.160
So that that was the point. With that there were some

00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.160
improvements with the signal also that will be made so that

00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.160
people can actually make the dual left turns.

00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.149
There are some issues with grading and drainage and we'll

00:06:19.149 --> 00:06:21.160
work with that but that is current.

00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.160
That is the improvement.

00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:27.550
Big picture we may talk to the mall back in the day mall

00:06:27.550 --> 00:06:31.350
did not like taking this access out. So we'll we'll see if

00:06:31.350 --> 00:06:35.160
that's an option when we're through the engineering phase.

00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:40.730
If we take out this access it'll really clear many issues

00:06:40.730 --> 00:06:43.519
here especially people trying to make this left while this

00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:47.339
is backed up and you only have one lane that cars are z

00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:48.160
ipping by.

00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.660
It's a safety issue right there so you can't actually look

00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:55.029
past the first car while these people are trying to make

00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:58.160
the green light at 30 35 miles an hour.

00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:04.160
So, we haven't really contacted them all.

00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.920
So, before I go through all each of these projects I'll

00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:09.870
talk about the schedule and how we're going to move forward

00:07:09.870 --> 00:07:12.160
quickly with these with these projects.

00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:18.139
The second one is the country club Hickory Road and that

00:07:18.139 --> 00:07:25.050
that intersection has similar issues, especially when you

00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:31.160
come up on to country club.

00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.939
This particular approach is a single lane and a lot of

00:07:34.939 --> 00:07:38.970
times you find yourself stuck if you if you ever take this

00:07:38.970 --> 00:07:43.339
there's one person that wants to turn left and there are a

00:07:43.339 --> 00:07:47.850
bunch of folks about 78 cars I want to turn right and they

00:07:47.850 --> 00:07:52.160
are stuck behind this one left turn car.

00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:55.350
So, what essentially this project is going to look at is

00:07:55.350 --> 00:07:58.430
widening this approach to add a right turn lane and that

00:07:58.430 --> 00:08:02.160
right turn most likely would extend about 200 feet.

00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.879
That would allow any left turners say about 10 cars that

00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.240
want to turn left that stack up in that lane while these

00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.160
right turners can sneak around and make those right turns.

00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.990
So, that would definitely add capacity long term

00:08:15.990 --> 00:08:19.290
improvement for this location would be signalizing it but

00:08:19.290 --> 00:08:22.379
that needs to work with text out a lot and get their plans

00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:24.160
in line for 1830.

00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:29.160
The next one is US 77 Dallas Drive.

00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:30.160
That's an interesting intersection.

00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:35.120
It already looks like a big intersection that's completely

00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:36.159
blown up.

00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:41.799
But it has some issues with wide turning angles here, car

00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.159
sweeping by faster.

00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.159
These two right turn lane movements are really fast.

00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:51.500
We want to close them in line with the capacity that way

00:08:51.500 --> 00:08:53.159
they work better.

00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:56.789
Most importantly, this is the left turn that we're focusing

00:08:56.789 --> 00:08:57.159
on.

00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.159
There are some grading and drainage issues here.

00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.799
If you want to add a second left turn lane so you'll have

00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.370
dual left turn that way anyone traveling in a true lane

00:09:07.370 --> 00:09:11.159
does not have to back up or wait behind the left turn.

00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.159
I mean you see it every day.

00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:17.000
This queue kind of backs into the true lane and the traffic

00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:18.159
barely moves.

00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.159
So that's another short term improvement that was included.

00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:23.159
Next one is--

00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:24.159
Can I ask a question on that?

00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:24.159
Sure.

00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.370
That would just become like a 90 degree turn as opposed to

00:09:27.370 --> 00:09:28.159
the swoop.

00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:29.159
Is that right?

00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.159
Yes, this will be a tighter turn.

00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:33.159
Okay.

00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.539
And what may happen, and depending on the volume, our

00:09:35.539 --> 00:09:38.789
analysis will include the volume, but what may happen is

00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:42.759
this extra space that's being used for this making it

00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:47.159
tighter will go towards these merge lane kind of deal.

00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:51.649
So they will still be open to make the turn and then they

00:09:51.649 --> 00:09:55.159
can slowly merge into the true traffic.

00:09:55.159 --> 00:10:00.269
So that's a slower merge as opposed to you coming in at 25

00:10:00.269 --> 00:10:03.159
miles or 30 miles an hour.

00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:06.159
The next one is Bell and McKinney.

00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:09.159
Everyone knows how bad that intersection is.

00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.299
It does not have any left turn lanes and it's tough given

00:10:13.299 --> 00:10:17.690
the given the buildings on the side, especially this twice

00:10:17.690 --> 00:10:21.159
as nice and some of these gas station buildings.

00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.159
There is no room to widen.

00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:27.750
But what we were able to do is work with Tim Beatty to get

00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:32.159
a sliver of his parking area and put a right turn lane

00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.159
there.

00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.019
So that's working out with them getting some of the eas

00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:41.379
ements here that they want for this particular facility that

00:10:41.379 --> 00:10:43.159
they're working on.

00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.279
At the same time, we get this piece of property to make

00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:46.159
that right turn.

00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.309
It will help because a lot of times you will see people

00:10:49.309 --> 00:10:52.409
that want to make a right turn can slip into this lane

00:10:52.409 --> 00:10:55.159
instead of waiting for the true traffic.

00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:57.159
So can I ask a question on this one?

00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:58.159
This is what I'm interested in.

00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:04.370
So I think a big issue here is this as of now, and I don't

00:11:04.370 --> 00:11:05.779
know thinking towards the future, we don't know what

00:11:05.779 --> 00:11:08.389
developments are going to come over, but we know this is

00:11:08.389 --> 00:11:11.159
between TW and the Dart station.

00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.850
This is so to me, this is just part of the closest part of

00:11:14.850 --> 00:11:17.159
the urban core. So I have two questions.

00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.840
One, what is a right turn lane do in your opinion to walk

00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.629
ability when this intersection is already not great for

00:11:24.629 --> 00:11:26.159
pedestrian safety?

00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:29.100
And is there anything we could do along with this in

00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:32.159
association with this to help walkability here?

00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:38.740
Yes. What has happened is we've worked with Tim and this

00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:41.159
particular area.

00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:44.159
I think this is all nicely graded at this point.

00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.159
But this particular area, there's a path.

00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:50.159
And I think in the past, our bike path coordinator, Julie,

00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:56.159
had worked with them to put a multi-use path trail from

00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.159
here through this public property, private property.

00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.539
And then put in, there's also a sidewalk here to connect

00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:10.159
this particular station area to the core through here.

00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:14.539
The new segment or new piece that we're working with is

00:12:14.539 --> 00:12:19.220
along with getting this right turn piece, we are giving

00:12:19.220 --> 00:12:22.159
them an easement along this section.

00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.799
And we're asking them not only improve section in front of

00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.679
this particular building that they're upgrading, but also

00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:33.159
put in a sidewalk in front of these parking spaces.

00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.950
So what they're going to do is create a clear connection of

00:12:36.950 --> 00:12:40.840
sidewalk path in this particular area to get to this corner

00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:41.159
.

00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:45.200
Now, once you get to that corner, there's issues with the

00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.159
sidewalk to walk along this building.

00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.860
I mean, if you look at this, this is not even close to

00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:52.159
being ADA compliant.

00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:57.450
So all of this, within the same project, within this right

00:12:57.450 --> 00:13:01.159
turn, we are planning on relocating.

00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.929
We worked with DME to relocate that light onto the building

00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:04.159
.

00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.500
So it's like a cooperative agreement between Tim Beatty and

00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:13.740
us to get those, sorry about that, to get the light poles

00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:15.159
removed.

00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:17.159
These light poles can be removed.

00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:19.159
The other light poles can be removed.

00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:27.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:29.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:31.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:45.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:47.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:53.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:57.159 --> 00:13:59.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:05.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:15.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:19.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:25.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:47.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:51.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:53.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:17.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:27.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:33.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:47.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:49.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:51.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:03.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:05.159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.159
Yeah, with Texas, whether it's kind of tough to upkeep all

00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:14.700
the pavement marking, it's -- yeah, they have a program

00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:18.159
that they revisit pavement markings every -- I think every

00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:21.159
five years they come back and try and maintain that.

00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:24.159
But it's been a challenge with the resources.

00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:27.159
But due to the noted, we can get this painted.

00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:31.159
I mean, I'll have someone look into this right now.

00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.159
And two other small things real quick.

00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:38.169
One is have we considered doing the advanced walk signal

00:16:38.169 --> 00:16:43.159
where the pedestrian gets the head start on traffic?

00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:44.159
I don't know.

00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.159
I've seen that posed in some areas.

00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.600
And then I guess the other thing is just do -- I'm just

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.159
throwing out the question.

00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.590
I think we only have about a one-mile radius, maybe if you

00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:55.950
extend over to campus two miles, where I really think we

00:16:55.950 --> 00:16:59.840
should think about prioritizing pedestrians, the whole city

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.159
.

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.159
Right.

00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.159
I just wonder what is another turn lane?

00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.180
How much traffic does it alleviate and how much does it

00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:09.420
just create more space for cars in the middle lanes to then

00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:10.160
zoom by?

00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.099
Because I just will -- just as an anecdotal example, I

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:16.170
remember coming off the Dart station in this area with my

00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:18.160
nieces who came in on the train.

00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.539
And we all felt terrified that if one of them left us for

00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:23.160
one second, they were going to get destroyed by a car.

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.160
And this is in the core of Denton.

00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.559
And so I just question, should we be adding more driving

00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.950
lanes in an area that's really already been built so much

00:17:31.950 --> 00:17:35.539
for cars and start considering, is there's just this one

00:17:35.539 --> 00:17:38.160
square mile where we could start thinking about bike lanes,

00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.160
sidewalks, and prioritizing those things?

00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.349
I know it's a tough sell in Texas, but I'm just throwing it

00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:45.160
out there.

00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:46.160
Yeah.

00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:47.160
No.

00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.160
We are looking at all angles.

00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:54.349
The way we look at it is there are two types of facilities

00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:57.160
as far as transportation.

00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:01.650
There are facilities that are safe for all modes, and there

00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:05.160
are facilities just meant for moving cars.

00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:09.400
And I think right now, Bell, especially this particular

00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:13.210
corridor, is kind of in the influx where it is a major

00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:17.339
corridor that cuts through and has a lot of traffic, a lot

00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:21.339
of vehicles getting in and out of TW, even our downtown

00:18:21.339 --> 00:18:22.160
area.

00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.900
But what is the primary classification as far as what is

00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:31.160
the primary use of this particular facility?

00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.160
That needs to be nailed down.

00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:36.789
If we're going to address each and every type of mode of

00:18:36.789 --> 00:18:40.359
transportation, there are some corridors that are really

00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.160
not meant to have pedestrians or bicycles on it.

00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:46.359
Yes, they can cross, they can become a facility that

00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:47.160
crosses it.

00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:51.650
But if you classify and start looking at certain areas that

00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:55.140
way, it makes more sense just because if we make all of

00:18:55.140 --> 00:19:00.049
them pedestrian friendly and bike friendly, cars just would

00:19:00.049 --> 00:19:02.160
not move within the entire core of Denton.

00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.160
And that becomes an issue too.

00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.619
That would be a good motivator for them to take different

00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:07.160
routes.

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.359
Well, I agree, except I'm just, is Bell not one of those

00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.160
ones we should reconsider?

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.160
Because it's between the Dart station, the Square, and TW.

00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.750
It's one of the most common areas that has the most

00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:20.160
potential to increase bike and walking.

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.599
And so, again, I'm good on giving up a lot of areas of Dent

00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:27.029
on to cars completely, but it just seems like that's one,

00:19:27.029 --> 00:19:30.089
even though it has a lot of traffic, where it may be worth

00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:31.160
reconsidering.

00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:35.170
I think cross connectors like Sycamore will putting a trail

00:19:35.170 --> 00:19:38.160
or even this way on Hickory and McKinney.

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.160
Cross connectors makes a little bit more sense.

00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.160
On Bell itself, it's a tough sell.

00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.160
It has too much traffic, way too much traffic.

00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.859
And I think most of the people, if you look at the entire

00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:54.809
stretch of Bell, the people affected will be people that

00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:58.839
live in the northern section, north of TW, trying to

00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:00.160
commute and get to 35.

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.160
And that would be a tough sell for them, too.

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.160
Finding other connections and routes.

00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.160
But if they're trying to get to 35 and they're north of TW,

00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:16.259
would there not be some, a little bit more of a catalyst to

00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:18.160
go out to the loop?

00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:22.160
And then loop becomes an issue down here.

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.160
So which is the worst of the two evils?

00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:26.160
It just gets to that.

00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.160
You have to play a balancing act.

00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:32.160
I am one of those people that avoid going.

00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.799
Like I live up in the Northeastern Park and I almost never

00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.160
go down by the mall.

00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:43.000
If we need to go south, we go out through 380 or most of

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.160
the time we take Bell.

00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:50.160
Is there any room to move or to eat into the other side of

00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.160
the street?

00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.160
Just the other side.

00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:58.650
I don't know how to ask this. Or by the gas station because

00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:01.160
there's those parking spots and it's just a bunch of cement

00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:01.160
.

00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.950
And whenever I run over there, I feel safest because I can

00:21:04.950 --> 00:21:07.160
scoot way in on that sidewalk.

00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.309
It's private property at this point, so it would be an

00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:12.160
issue.

00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.799
We'll have to, eminent domain by, we have to have a good

00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:17.160
justification.

00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.160
We could find one, I'm sure.

00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:22.119
That's just as scary once you move about a block south,

00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.160
like right there at Bell and Hickory.

00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:25.160
Yeah, that's bad.

00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:29.160
I used to walk there every day and it's horrifying.

00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.160
These cars blow right by you.

00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.160
Okay, there are a couple more locations.

00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.160
Carol at Sherman is one of them.

00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:43.630
This is where most of the people, almost literally traffic

00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:48.160
wise, Carol ends here and merges into Sherman,

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:55.160
which then leaves town 426, I believe, 423.

00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:01.160
So this intersection has major turning radius issues.

00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:07.160
This corner is not enough for a vehicle to make this turn.

00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.980
Even with the two lanes, there's a dual right turn if you

00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:11.160
look at that signal.

00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.019
There are two right turn lanes and vehicles that are trying

00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:17.160
to make the right at the same time,

00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:21.299
they're so close or if you look at this curve, they almost

00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:23.160
go over it all the time.

00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.160
So.

00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.160
What's happening right there?

00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.000
Just a bunch of, like they're just scattered in a little

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.160
parking lot.

00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.160
All the little parking bumpers.

00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.160
Oh these, oh yeah.

00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.160
Is that big to like deter?

00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:39.160
No idea.

00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:40.160
They probably washed away.

00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:43.160
I have no idea.

00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:48.920
But this corner will be updated so that you can better turn

00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.160
, making it safer.

00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:54.799
At times there are trucks that are lined up here to make

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.160
into this back area of Kroger and all these businesses

00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.500
and you have one or two trucks here, this thing backs into

00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.160
this particular driveway.

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.160
And it starts creating back up in this area.

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.920
If those trucks are shifted to this, making by making a

00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:11.160
left turn here,

00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.799
if they're shifted and these two can go through, it will

00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:19.160
help a lot for these folks to clear off and get out.

00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.960
So that would relieve congestion between University and

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.160
Sherman along Carol Northbound.

00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.160
So that's another little improvement.

00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.160
It's not, it won't cost that much.

00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:33.339
It's just eliminating the island, but it's going to help

00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.160
alleviate some of the congestion.

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:46.220
And then the last but not the least is Old Road at the

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:49.160
University.

00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.839
There are no left turn lanes today in the north and south

00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:54.160
direction here.

00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:55.160
There is a right turn lane.

00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.859
If you see this little, this is the right turn lane and

00:23:57.859 --> 00:23:59.160
this is a through left.

00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.799
Same thing, there's a through left and a wider shoulder so

00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.160
that people can easily make a right.

00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.910
So there are no left turn lanes in both of these approaches

00:24:07.910 --> 00:24:08.160
.

00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:12.500
And part of the reason that these left turn lanes cannot be

00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:16.160
protected is the left turn lane is not there.

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.160
So we're starting the first step.

00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.799
We'll look into what needs, what do we need as far as

00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.160
signalizing it later on as for us to protect it.

00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:29.160
But that's the last improvement.

00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.160
These were taken to council.

00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:33.160
They've approved the monies.

00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:35.160
And we're moving forward.

00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.099
The timeline for this is we're planning on getting the

00:24:39.099 --> 00:24:41.160
design done by end of April

00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:46.200
and then bidding them out to different contractors to get

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.160
them constructed.

00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.160
The bidding process probably take about three months.

00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.160
So the construction should be started in fall.

00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.119
Most likely by October every single project would be under

00:24:58.119 --> 00:24:59.160
construction.

00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.160
We're planning on wrapping them up by end of the year.

00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:06.759
So that's the fast pace, fast track that we've been ordered

00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:07.160
.

00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.160
So any questions?

00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:11.160
I think we had some discussion.

00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.160
So just would there be more updates or is --

00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.289
We can come back with more updates once we probably get to

00:25:18.289 --> 00:25:22.160
construction maybe or even before that.

00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.160
Just let us know we can bring back updates.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:26.160
I think they all look great and make sense.

00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.119
I just -- the Bell one is the only one that I'd just like

00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.160
to keep thinking about.

00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.160
I don't know.

00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.640
I just -- I can't think -- get over like if that's actually

00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:36.160
going to be --

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.380
the DART's ever going to actually be a meaningful form of

00:25:38.380 --> 00:25:39.160
transportation.

00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.900
We have to some point prioritize getting people who would

00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.160
use the DART there.

00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.160
And that's just my thought.

00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.799
I don't know what's possible, but I'd love to explore other

00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:52.160
options for Bell.

00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.869
And if there is anywhere else that could take those cars if

00:25:55.869 --> 00:25:57.160
people felt pushed from them

00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:01.160
because it became more pedestrian friendly.

00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.160
Good point.

00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:05.160
Okay.

00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:13.380
With no more discussion, we'll move on to 1D, TSC 18-010,

00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:15.160
which is to receive a report

00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.599
and hold a discussion regarding tax increment financing

00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.160
reinvestment zone projects.

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:27.160
So what are you saying, Daniel?

00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.029
We heard and we're going to come back with a lot of

00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:30.160
pedestrian projects.

00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.160
How about that?

00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:35.160
Woo-hoo.

00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:40.869
So it's in the downtown area, and this is funded by the TIR

00:26:40.869 --> 00:26:41.160
Z,

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.160
tax increment financing reinvestment zone.

00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.880
And essentially what this is, it's looking beyond the

00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.160
actual square.

00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.160
These are pedestrian facilities, including lighting.

00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.480
This is one of the good items that was introduced, is

00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:56.160
lighting.

00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.819
A lot of times you have a pedestrian path, but the lighting

00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:00.160
is so bad,

00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.160
no one wants to really go in the back alley.

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:07.160
So they were thinking of both elements in here.

00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:12.160
And there was a little presentation.

00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.160
I don't want to go through the details on the AIS,

00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.160
but there was a little presentation that went to council.

00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:29.160
And I will bring it up right now.

00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.160
So this is the presentation that council looked at.

00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.730
I mean, some of the numbers were changed, as to dollar

00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:35.160
amounts and figures.

00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:38.539
They've changed slightly, but this gives you an idea of the

00:27:38.539 --> 00:27:41.160
overview of where these...

00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.160
So this is the downtown TIF area.

00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.160
This is the square right here.

00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:51.160
Anything on the outside of the square, this is Elm, Locust,

00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.160
and then we're talking about Oak and Hickory.

00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:58.190
The projects along Oak and Hickory are primarily lighting

00:27:58.190 --> 00:27:59.160
projects.

00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.160
So let's go with the first one.

00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:03.160
This is North Locust.

00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.500
We're looking at primarily between Oak and McKinney, the

00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.160
sidewalks on both sides.

00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:12.160
There's some major parking.

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.160
There's a parking area, but it's completely damaged.

00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.279
It's a channel for water to go into the drainage inlet

00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.160
there, so it's completely destroyed.

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.519
That will be replaced, and the sidewalk along with these

00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:28.160
red dots

00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:32.160
are where the lighting poles will be for pedestrians.

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:37.160
So this is the first project, Project A.

00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:44.160
Then you go to the second, which is North Elm.

00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.160
And this is a little bit longer project.

00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:49.160
It starts from Oak.

00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.849
It goes to McKinney and then extends from McKinney all the

00:28:52.849 --> 00:28:54.160
way to Parkway.

00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:58.440
And the sidewalks will include ADA ramps at the

00:28:58.440 --> 00:28:59.160
intersection.

00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:04.440
It will include any ADA components at each of these drive

00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:05.160
ways,

00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.160
anything that has to do with access.

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.160
It will be ADA compliant.

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.160
All the new sidewalks will.

00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.990
And then they will be adding a bunch of lighting on either

00:29:13.990 --> 00:29:15.160
side of the street.

00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.819
So these segments are going to start looking nicer and much

00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:21.160
more accessible

00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.160
and much more pedestrian-friendly.

00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.160
The remaining two segments are just adding lighting.

00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.160
You have sidewalks on each of these sections.

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.160
It's Oak.

00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.160
Some pieces might be missing, but Oak from Carroll to Elm.

00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.099
We're adding lighting so that it gets lighted up much more

00:29:39.099 --> 00:29:40.160
appealing,

00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:44.160
even for bicyclists at that point.

00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.160
The other one was Hickory.

00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.160
And the same thing, there's a bicycle lane,

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.940
so it will be more appealing to bicyclists coming in this

00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:51.160
way,

00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:54.160
as well as pedestrians that need to walk.

00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.160
These are the projects that were approved.

00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.829
And the schedule for these projects is similar to the

00:30:00.829 --> 00:30:02.160
previous item.

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.160
It is fast-tracked.

00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.160
It is supposed to get designed by April

00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.309
and hopefully wrap up construction by the end of this

00:30:11.309 --> 00:30:12.160
fiscal year

00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.160
or most likely end of the year.

00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:16.160
Any questions?

00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.160
What kind of lighting is it?

00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.160
Is it standard poles we've had in other places?

00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:26.160
These will most likely be the ones that are down Oak,

00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.160
all the decorative lighting, pedestrian poles,

00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.160
the decorative lighting that council approved for.

00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:34.160
I think it's already installed.

00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.970
They are going to also change lighting for the new parking

00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:39.160
lot around it.

00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:44.160
It will be the same design, same type of pole.

00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.160
So the lighting is coming out of the tip?

00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.160
Correct.

00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.380
So the lights of Oak and Hickory are paid for by a

00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:52.160
foundation,

00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.160
I believe, a historic foundation.

00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.160
Or at least they're raising money for that.

00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:58.160
So is that...

00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:00.160
That might be west of Carroll.

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:04.160
This is between Carroll and Elk.

00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:06.160
But is it going to match that?

00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.160
It's going to match that.

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.160
I think currently what is on Oak is same as what is all

00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.160
around the square area.

00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.160
So it's a similar design.

00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.160
What street did you say they're raising money for?

00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.609
Well, you'll notice on Oak west of Carroll there's a

00:31:21.609 --> 00:31:23.160
historic looking building.

00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.359
And I think they're going to be putting some on Hickory

00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:27.160
pretty soon.

00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:28.160
Yeah, and that's...

00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:29.160
After their debit is structured.

00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.160
Yeah, and actually those are grants.

00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.160
That's going to be Hunts fundraising.

00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:36.160
Those are the ones, yeah.

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.160
That's the type of pole that would be put in.

00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.440
Yeah, it's much...the lights are so much closer to

00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.160
pedestrians and cyclists.

00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:46.160
Yeah, I think this is pedestrian.

00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:50.359
This is not the typical arm that's over for the cars that

00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:51.160
pass by.

00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.160
Yes, this is pedestrian.

00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:57.160
Yeah, and that's the most needed on Hickory.

00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.380
I think I've said, but you can't even...it's so dark at

00:31:59.380 --> 00:32:00.160
night.

00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.160
It's unsafe, but you can't even use the bike lane.

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.160
It's so dark you can't see in front of you.

00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:09.160
Well, they're waiting until they finish the paving project.

00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:10.160
For Hickory?

00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:11.160
For Hickory.

00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:12.160
Yes.

00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:13.160
Yeah.

00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:16.160
All right, any more questions?

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.430
I have a question just about the clarification of this

00:32:20.430 --> 00:32:22.160
commission's role on things like that.

00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.309
So we've got the other report just to update if things have

00:32:25.309 --> 00:32:27.160
been approved in this.

00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.160
Are you just kind of informing us as a courtesy?

00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.160
Like it's already been...how does that work?

00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:36.529
Yeah, so what happened is the way these projects were

00:32:36.529 --> 00:32:42.220
generated came through direct council requests to staff to

00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:44.160
look into and bring it back to them.

00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:49.220
If this came from some request and there was a new project

00:32:49.220 --> 00:32:54.220
form from a resident or some other HOAs, organizations,

00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:57.339
then it would go to traffic safety first and then to

00:32:57.339 --> 00:32:58.160
council.

00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.769
These were directly requested by council, so they went

00:33:00.769 --> 00:33:02.160
directly back to council. That's what happened.

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.500
But I wanted to let you guys know that this is what's

00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:08.160
coming and this is what's happening.

00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:12.160
And we are moving forward on good projects.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:16.500
It's just that...yeah, we didn't have any action item today

00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:17.160
, sorry.

00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:18.160
No, that's fine.

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.160
Every once in a while we do.

00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:22.160
Can I ask one question on that?

00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.160
Yeah.

00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.579
So one thing I've also...I repeat myself a lot in here, so

00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.160
at least I'm consistent.

00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:32.299
We've talked about being able to find approved projects as

00:33:32.299 --> 00:33:37.039
a way so that the council, you know, and we understand what

00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:41.480
's already being done, so I'm not coming in like repeating

00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.160
myself on a project that's upcoming.

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:48.319
What's the best place to find all of those previously

00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:50.160
approved projects?

00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.160
Good question.

00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.789
These things have changed a lot in the last year, so these

00:33:54.789 --> 00:33:59.970
are really...these came out in the last two to three months

00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:00.160
.

00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.440
It has not been that long that these projects were

00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:03.160
conceived.

00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:07.170
We were asked to look into quick turnaround projects and

00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:08.159
come back.

00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:13.079
Typically, there's a list of CIP projects, so they're long-

00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.219
term, bigger, widening projects that are always being

00:34:16.219 --> 00:34:17.159
considered.

00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.920
We look at what's next, what's needed, and we go through a

00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:24.690
whole process, and then most likely they go through the

00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:28.179
bond committee to get them on the bond, and then we go for

00:34:28.179 --> 00:34:30.159
bond funds to fund them.

00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.159
So that's typically the project.

00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.159
That's the process for all of these projects.

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.159
But there are sometimes these smaller projects.

00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.860
There's also similar sidewalk program that we have, and

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:45.800
there are lists of sidewalk projects that we've prioritized

00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:46.159
.

00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:48.159
We created a ranking system.

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:53.170
Any new concern or any new request that comes in, "Hey,

00:34:53.170 --> 00:34:57.159
sidewalk in front of my door is not there.

00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:00.440
I need this gap closure," that's added to the list and

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:01.159
ranked.

00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:05.159
Depending on how it ranks, it slowly gets funded.

00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.159
In the previous bond election, we had $2 million.

00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:11.139
We're working on spending all of that, getting some of

00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:14.159
these bigger sidewalk projects done.

00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:20.159
I can show you that there's some discussion in the matrix

00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:26.030
that I can pull up the sidewalk spreadsheet, but let me

00:35:26.030 --> 00:35:28.159
bring it up now.

00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:29.159
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.989
If I go to the City of Denton site, could I find it if I

00:35:31.989 --> 00:35:34.969
was a citizen or if I was on this committee, would we be

00:35:34.969 --> 00:35:36.159
able to find it?

00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:44.159
We are working towards making it more transparent. This

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:44.159
list at some point will be available on the website.

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.159
These are all the ranked projects.

00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:50.349
A lot of them have been -- we're working on completing

00:35:50.349 --> 00:35:52.159
either our design.

00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:54.159
Let me see.

00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.159
This is where you can actually tell.

00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.159
These are the ones that were completed.

00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:04.710
When they were completed, it tells you March 2017, May,

00:36:04.710 --> 00:36:07.539
September. These are the projects that were sidewalks that

00:36:07.539 --> 00:36:08.159
we've completed.

00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.159
Design, construction.

00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:14.159
Then we move to -- these are currently under construction.

00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:17.630
Now, if you look at one, it's on Oakland across the street

00:36:17.630 --> 00:36:21.000
that is currently ill-started construction in the next

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.159
couple weeks.

00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:28.940
The rest of them have been completed. Congress, Southside

00:36:28.940 --> 00:36:31.159
of McKinney, Almond Cedar, Mulberry has been completed.

00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:32.159
I saw that one done.

00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:34.159
We have a list and we're working towards it.

00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:40.159
The next ones will be some of these other bond funded.

00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:43.159
We have a bunch that are ready for design.

00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:45.159
These are ready for design.

00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.159
These will go next.

00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:51.030
If you look at the amount, they look smaller amounts, but

00:36:51.030 --> 00:36:55.159
when you combine them, it totally adds up to $2 million.

00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:59.159
We are in the process and this is what we're tracking.

00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:03.159
Yes, at some point, it will be on the website.

00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:05.420
I think what would help is if I could sit down and say,

00:37:05.420 --> 00:37:07.159
okay, these are the problem areas.

00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.159
These are being addressed already, but these ones are made.

00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:13.159
That way we could bring that up.

00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.159
Can we get e-mail updates on projects like this?

00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.159
Could that be something that could be e-mailed to us?

00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:23.590
Typically, if the project -- I think this information is

00:37:23.590 --> 00:37:28.159
sent out through the public information office.

00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:33.250
If you want to get e-mails of when this is completed, I

00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:37.699
think council is already requesting status on these

00:37:37.699 --> 00:37:40.159
projects that are currently under --

00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.159
so they typically get updates in the Friday reports.

00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.610
They also have street update in there and they have other C

00:37:47.610 --> 00:37:50.159
IP projects which include sidewalks.

00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:58.610
If you're looking for updates, you might find a lot of them

00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:02.159
on the Friday report.

00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:10.949
This was part of my -- I was going to answer the question

00:38:10.949 --> 00:38:13.159
next item.

00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.159
Any other questions?

00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:20.159
Any other questions on this item?

00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.159
All right. Thank you.

00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:32.539
We'll move on to 1E TSC 18-011 which is to receive a report

00:38:32.539 --> 00:38:41.420
, hold a discussion regarding a presentation on Open Meet

00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:43.159
ings Act.

00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:44.159
I apologize.

00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:48.380
I'm not -- probably one of the few millennials that's not

00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:49.159
very tech savvy.

00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.880
I was out of town trying to send my PowerPoint and just

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.159
having the worst technical difficulties.

00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:59.630
I was able to save it on PDF so we're going to work off of

00:38:59.630 --> 00:39:00.159
PDF.

00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:02.159
This is actually a -- I'm sorry.

00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:03.159
My name is Victor Florida.

00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.849
I'm one of the deputy city attorneys for the city of Denton

00:39:06.849 --> 00:39:07.159
.

00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:11.900
I came here from a small city in south Texas and there I

00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:16.159
did a lot of work on open meetings, open records,

00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.360
and I've actually presented on this topic to Texas

00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.159
attorneys across the state.

00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.800
And so I was -- Trey asked me if I could share some of what

00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.239
I know with you guys and just maybe answer some questions

00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:31.159
you guys might have.

00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:36.550
Trey expressed to me that there was a question about social

00:39:36.550 --> 00:39:40.159
media and how that interacts with the Open Meetings Act.

00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:46.760
And so I'm going to limit my presentation to just a few

00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.159
slides.

00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:51.409
Usually I go through what are my five essentials to

00:39:51.409 --> 00:39:55.269
surviving the Texas Open Meetings Act, walking quorum, su

00:39:55.269 --> 00:39:56.159
fficiency of detail,

00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:59.550
recording of certified agendas, last minute changes, avoid

00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:03.159
ability and ratification, a lot of legal speak.

00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:05.380
But I think we're just going to tackle the first one, which

00:40:05.380 --> 00:40:09.159
is walking quorum, and that's where the use of social media

00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:09.159
.

00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:18.159
I think has the biggest play in the discussion.

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.489
So I don't mean to insult anybody's intelligence here or

00:40:21.489 --> 00:40:24.159
your past experiences on different boards,

00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:29.219
but scale like one to five, five being really experienced,

00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:32.159
one being first-timer on a board,

00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:37.010
and then there's also hands who has like a level one maybe

00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:39.159
experience level two, anybody like five.

00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:43.159
I've done this. I've heard this speech before.

00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:47.159
Okay. So maybe a good mix, right?

00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.150
The biggest concern from the legal perspective that we

00:40:50.150 --> 00:40:56.480
always have in advising our clients is -- if you would

00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:01.159
think of it as a sliding scale.

00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.800
And obviously right now when you have a quorum of members

00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:10.159
and they're present and you start to discuss business,

00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:12.449
the Open Meetings Act requirements are going to be

00:41:12.449 --> 00:41:13.159
triggered.

00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:17.159
That's the easier one.

00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.409
But where you get into some difficulty or some ambiguities

00:41:21.409 --> 00:41:24.159
or the gray areas in which we work in,

00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:29.190
it's when you have after meeting discussions and there's

00:41:29.190 --> 00:41:33.159
this concept of kind of like this daisy chain,

00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:36.280
or if you want to think about it, you know, the telephone

00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.159
game you should play in elementary school

00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:41.159
and which one person would talk to the person next to them

00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:44.159
and at the end of the trail,

00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.710
it was something completely different than when it started,

00:41:46.710 --> 00:41:50.159
right? So it's the telephone game.

00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:55.159
There have been cases in actual litigation presented on

00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.760
when individuals don't intentionally start that telephone

00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.159
game.

00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.099
When it just starts off, I had coffee with one of my

00:42:03.099 --> 00:42:06.039
council members and we're talking about items that's coming

00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:06.159
up

00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:11.219
and we didn't intentionally mean for it to kind of grow

00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:14.159
into this full discussion.

00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.900
And with the use of social media, I'll tie social media now

00:42:17.900 --> 00:42:20.159
, that's really easy to do as well with not just social

00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:20.159
media

00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:25.199
like Facebook or Snapchat or Twitter, but just mirror text

00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:27.159
messaging.

00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:31.730
And I'll give a case, for example, didn't actually form

00:42:31.730 --> 00:42:33.159
into litigation,

00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:38.190
but it did get some unwanted publicity and attorneys were

00:42:38.190 --> 00:42:40.159
involved and whatnot.

00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:44.599
And this case was a case where a school district was

00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:46.159
considering,

00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:49.960
the trustees were considering the appointment of a new

00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:51.159
superintendent.

00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.460
And there are multiple applicants and one trustee text

00:42:55.460 --> 00:42:58.159
message the other trustee,

00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:02.159
"Hey, I think we should really give this one guy a shot."

00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.719
Well, then unbeknownst to, let's say, trustee A, trustee B

00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.159
said, "Hey, I just talked to trustee A."

00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:11.409
And trustee A thinks that this guy would be a great

00:43:11.409 --> 00:43:12.159
candidate.

00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:15.159
So now they're up to three.

00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:18.639
Well, then unbeknownst to A and B, trustee number three

00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:21.159
said, called his buddy,

00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:25.300
"Hey, I just talked to trustee B, who talked to trustee A,

00:43:25.300 --> 00:43:28.159
and they think this guy would be a great candidate."

00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:31.409
So they have this discussion. There is some clamor in the

00:43:31.409 --> 00:43:32.159
community.

00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.110
"Hey, I think something's fishy out here. I think they're

00:43:36.110 --> 00:43:38.159
about to approve this superintendent

00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:41.159
without having a public discussion about it."

00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:45.159
Sure enough, they come up before the council,

00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.610
and there's a swift motion to approve this candidate as the

00:43:50.610 --> 00:43:52.159
new superintendent.

00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:56.550
And then public information requests are submitted for

00:43:56.550 --> 00:44:03.159
phone records and text messages and things of that nature.

00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:06.159
When it comes down to it, and those cases are reviewed,

00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:11.219
there is a mental state that's required, a burden that's

00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:14.159
required to be established to find a violation.

00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.159
Those violations can be criminal, can be civil.

00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.869
If you violate the Open Meetings Act, there are civil

00:44:19.869 --> 00:44:21.159
criminal penalties.

00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:25.409
But with those, come, like I said, a mental, an intent

00:44:25.409 --> 00:44:27.159
behind it.

00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:29.610
And so in that case, the court found that there was not an

00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:30.159
intent.

00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.159
But do we even want to get that close is always a question.

00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.309
So my guidance to the boards that I've presided over and

00:44:38.309 --> 00:44:39.159
give legal counsel to,

00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:42.869
and what I explain to these attorneys that I speak to

00:44:42.869 --> 00:44:44.159
across the state is,

00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:50.219
you always want to caution your board that you can't

00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:53.159
control what happens after you have those communications.

00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:55.800
And so I'm going to bring it back and tie it into social

00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:56.159
media,

00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:03.179
is that when you have these interactions on social media

00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:04.159
and they're,

00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:09.539
whether they're private, like it's a private group or even

00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:11.159
a public group,

00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:15.059
if there are more than a quorum that are engaged in that

00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:16.159
discussion,

00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:20.159
then that would be a violation of the Open Meetings Act.

00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:28.650
Also, if there's less than a quorum, but then for whatever

00:45:28.650 --> 00:45:29.159
reason,

00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:33.760
somebody alleges that it was less than a quorum, it was

00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:36.159
only maybe a subgroup,

00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:39.559
a private group of three board members, and only those

00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.159
three board members could interact in that dialogue.

00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:46.599
Well, there's cases that show that, or at least the prop

00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.159
onent would be, or opponent would advocate and say,

00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.949
well, they were trying to circumvent the system by creating

00:45:53.949 --> 00:45:57.010
this closed group of just three members to have this

00:45:57.010 --> 00:45:58.159
discussion.

00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:04.519
And so I guess my guidance to this board is use of social

00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:10.159
media on your own, personal accounts.

00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:13.159
You're not precluded from talking about day-to-day things,

00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:19.449
but especially there should be internal red flags that go

00:46:19.449 --> 00:46:20.159
up.

00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:26.159
Hey, I think this item might come up at a future meeting.

00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:29.039
We've kind of talked about it. It's on our matrix of things

00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:30.159
that come up.

00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:34.159
Let's just wait and have this discussion in open session.

00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:38.369
Or if you truly want to have more efficient means of

00:46:38.369 --> 00:46:42.070
discussing matters, because it's not often we can all

00:46:42.070 --> 00:46:43.159
gather together,

00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:47.900
then if there's a specific subject that you want to tackle

00:46:47.900 --> 00:46:53.159
on and create a subcommittee that can meet together,

00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:55.159
less than a quorum, meet together and discuss those things,

00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.570
and then as a subcommittee, bring that report to the

00:46:58.570 --> 00:46:59.159
council,

00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:04.079
that's also beneficial and would not violate the Open Meet

00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:05.159
ings Act.

00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:09.159
But aside from that, my caution to you would just be aware,

00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:14.159
self-aware of discussing items outside of a public meeting

00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:15.159
context

00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.909
and items that would come up before the board. That's a lot

00:47:20.909 --> 00:47:24.159
. I try to keep it down, but I kind of went on.

00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:25.789
Did you say a subcommittee just has to be less than a qu

00:47:25.789 --> 00:47:26.159
orum?

00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:27.159
Yes.

00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:32.500
And there would be no meeting posting requirements for that

00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:34.159
subcommittee.

00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:38.340
You could go have a discussion over coffee at some place,

00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:43.159
but make sure you bring that kind of weekly report or

00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:44.159
monthly report to the board

00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:48.159
and say, hey, we talked, and this is what we discussed.

00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:50.860
So would the subcommittee have to be formed during a

00:47:50.860 --> 00:47:53.159
meeting and thus show up at the minutes?

00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:56.159
Yes. I'd recommend that, yes.

00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:58.190
I wonder if that would be, because I think part of this

00:47:58.190 --> 00:48:01.159
discussion came around having time besides in the meeting

00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:05.159
to be more educated about some of these questions,

00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:06.849
just because it's difficult to get everything out of the

00:48:06.849 --> 00:48:07.159
time.

00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:08.159
Sure.

00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:10.380
I wonder if that would be for people interested, if it was

00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:12.519
less than a quorum, if that could then take the form of a

00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:16.469
subcommittee of people who want to learn about what already

00:48:16.469 --> 00:48:18.159
exists in the city or something like that.

00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:23.159
I'd be interested.

00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:26.159
Were there any questions specific to social media?

00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:30.389
I guess I just gave a holistic approach and kind of applied

00:48:30.389 --> 00:48:35.000
that to social media, but any social media specific

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:40.159
questions about interactions with open meetings?

00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.159
I have one question.

00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:48.349
I think one specific thing came up in a neighborhood group

00:48:48.349 --> 00:48:53.309
for the neighborhood I live in, and someone was asking

00:48:53.309 --> 00:48:58.159
about the intersection of Old North and University.

00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:02.519
Something like that is pretty innocuous, but I was about to

00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.519
reply to it and then I got busy and then I noticed that the

00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:10.900
council member for that area had been, she was interested

00:49:10.900 --> 00:49:15.159
in that and she posted about it, or she replied to it.

00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.500
Does that, I mean, how does that get, like if we were both

00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:23.449
to be talking about this project in one thread, I mean,

00:49:23.449 --> 00:49:25.159
that seems like that would get a little hairy.

00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:32.869
It could, and so it's, I would just use your best judgment

00:49:32.869 --> 00:49:35.159
in those cases, but I will make a distinction.

00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.159
It's a quorum of whatever board you serve on.

00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.159
So if you and the council member were both on this thread,

00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:46.449
and even if the quorum was two, you know, there's three

00:49:46.449 --> 00:49:51.159
members, it would be a quorum of those of that board.

00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.960
So just because you're both officials or serving some kind

00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.630
of capacity for the city, it wouldn't trigger, that in

00:49:58.630 --> 00:50:01.159
itself wouldn't trigger a quorum.

00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:06.300
Just like in any context, if you're invited to a town hall

00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:10.199
meeting in person to go out and engage the public about

00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:14.309
things that you review here at this board, you're likewise

00:50:14.309 --> 00:50:19.159
able to engage on social media threads, right, about doing

00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:20.159
stuff like that.

00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.030
But the trick is not to either intentionally or unintention

00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:27.710
ally put yourself in the position where now there are three

00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:31.110
or four of you, or four of you on this thread, and just

00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:33.159
kind of be careful of that.

00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:36.400
So it's like participation and considered posting, for

00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:37.159
example.

00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:40.360
So it's a weird, now I'm just intrigued by the legal, like

00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:43.460
so there's, because there's these, for example, there's

00:50:43.460 --> 00:50:46.119
these really big groups in Denton where people discuss

00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:47.159
public issues.

00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:49.940
And so if one happened to be one related to the safety

00:50:49.940 --> 00:50:53.280
commission, a traffic safety commission, would it, what

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.159
constitutes participation in a case like that?

00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:59.489
Is it seeing a post? Is it, I mean, if you're a member of

00:50:59.489 --> 00:51:01.869
the thread, does that count, of the group, does that count,

00:51:01.869 --> 00:51:03.159
even if you didn't look at it?

00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:07.159
Or do you have to actually interact with it?

00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:11.599
So I'll give you a more traditional example and then we can

00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:15.969
apply it to social media, just to kind of get where I'm

00:51:15.969 --> 00:51:17.159
coming from.

00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:25.440
But let's just say, for example, there is a panel, a city

00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:32.159
panel, or a town hall event, and they have city officials

00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:32.159
at the,

00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:36.340
participating in the panel, and another board wants to go

00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:42.159
and attend this kind of public panel in person, and they go

00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:42.159
.

00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:46.300
And let's say a quorum of them go, and here I'll use, like,

00:51:46.300 --> 00:51:50.159
let's say city council and public utilities board.

00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.969
Members of the city council are on a public panel and the

00:51:52.969 --> 00:51:56.329
public utility board goes and attends the meeting, a quorum

00:51:56.329 --> 00:51:57.159
of them go and attend the meeting.

00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:03.159
They haven't posted the meeting, but they go.

00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:09.019
That would, and there are items that are being discussed by

00:52:09.019 --> 00:52:12.699
the council members that will impact or be presented before

00:52:12.699 --> 00:52:13.159
PUB,

00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:17.389
it would be my recommendation, my opinion, that PUB would

00:52:17.389 --> 00:52:23.619
be conducting a meeting, or at least the meeting's act

00:52:23.619 --> 00:52:25.159
requirements would have been triggered in that sense.

00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:29.250
Now to apply to social media, even if they hadn't discussed

00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:30.159
anything, right?

00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:33.300
Obviously, for sure, even one of them made a point or asked

00:52:33.300 --> 00:52:36.900
a question to the council members, that would be even more

00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:40.159
so triggering of meeting's requirements.

00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:47.679
Applying to social media, social media's entirely different

00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.159
.

00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.409
And there haven't been, and I can say that with confidence

00:52:50.409 --> 00:52:52.159
because there have been cases like that.

00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.969
There have not been many cases on dealing with social media

00:52:55.969 --> 00:52:59.159
and just the presence of you being on a group.

00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:06.179
But what it has been, there are cases and claims brought,

00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:11.159
are when those members begin to engage.

00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:18.360
So, and maybe not, maybe if four of the members here were

00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:22.690
on a group and just observed, then it would be my

00:53:22.690 --> 00:53:26.679
impression, my legal opinion that no, the Open Meetings Act

00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:28.159
is not triggered.

00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:33.179
But the minute that one of you responds and all four of you

00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:37.860
are watching or following, then it would be my legal

00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:42.159
opinion that that would trigger Open Meetings.

00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.159
Oh, tricky.

00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:48.190
Because the same context and you can see how the analogy

00:53:48.190 --> 00:53:52.210
pairs up with if you were just in public, the minute one

00:53:52.210 --> 00:53:56.199
stands up, it just, the state's going to say that just

00:53:56.199 --> 00:53:58.159
doesn't play right.

00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.159
That's interesting.

00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:02.199
It is tricky because I don't know how you actually identify

00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:04.739
how people are viewing, whether they're viewing, because

00:54:04.739 --> 00:54:07.179
you, I'm in lots of groups where I don't see any of the

00:54:07.179 --> 00:54:09.449
posts because I never check them or I don't go to them or

00:54:09.449 --> 00:54:10.159
anything.

00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:14.739
Right, that's probably way off. I think we all understand

00:54:14.739 --> 00:54:16.159
the intention of the law, which is important, but it's.

00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:18.110
But if there are more questions like that, that was an

00:54:18.110 --> 00:54:21.159
interesting question. I kind of enjoyed going through it.

00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:26.570
Yeah, but very definitely, like, there is a post on one of

00:54:26.570 --> 00:54:31.159
those Denton forums and then I see Dan responding.

00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:35.809
Then I see Karen responding, then like it's time to lay low

00:54:35.809 --> 00:54:36.159
.

00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:37.159
Right?

00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.159
Right, that'd be my recommendation, right?

00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:43.159
And here it is.

00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:46.869
There's always risk and liabilities. That's what we measure

00:54:46.869 --> 00:54:47.159
.

00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:53.280
We identify risks and then there may be some positive that

00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:56.409
comes out of any situation and then there are risks or li

00:54:56.409 --> 00:54:58.159
abilities that come out of it.

00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:05.940
It's the, does the benefit substantiate the risk of

00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:09.159
liability? So in that case, the, does the benefit of you

00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:14.389
commenting on that thread validate the liability that

00:55:14.389 --> 00:55:17.500
somebody might come and file a claim, pay its violation

00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:22.159
openings, when you might have an opportunity to address

00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:26.619
that here in a community meeting or even mention you could

00:55:26.619 --> 00:55:27.159
organize a town hall,

00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:30.480
a wave in public or just something of that nature. It's

00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.440
just identifying the risk and weighing them against the li

00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:36.159
abilities benefits.

00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.099
That was my question is, is there just a best practice to

00:55:39.099 --> 00:55:42.079
encourage people to like submit comments via these open

00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.159
meetings that we have like this one or a city council or.

00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:46.159
Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:58.159
Absolutely. Absolutely. Of course. I mean, not to squash

00:55:58.159 --> 00:55:58.159
people expressing themselves on online, but there's a

00:55:58.159 --> 00:55:58.159
difference between just complaining in a forum and actually

00:55:58.159 --> 00:55:58.159
coming to a meeting and hoping that something's going to

00:55:58.159 --> 00:55:58.159
change.

00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:00.800
So is there a way to just kind of encourage people like

00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:02.159
come to this meeting or.

00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:07.150
Yes, I mean, it makes everybody's job easier. It makes it a

00:56:07.150 --> 00:56:11.809
lot more transparent and accountable for all parties and

00:56:11.809 --> 00:56:16.360
they get their issues answered here just as well, if not

00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:22.159
maybe better than in one of those internet mediums.

00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:26.159
So definitely.

00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.159
Anything else.

00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:38.130
We just should direct all our questions to you to trade to

00:56:38.130 --> 00:56:39.159
trade.

00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:41.159
All right. Thank you.

00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:47.860
And next we have item one FTSC 80 dash one zero one two

00:56:47.860 --> 00:56:53.159
staff reports which include the matrix.

00:56:53.159 --> 00:57:06.469
All right. First few items are just there they're happening

00:57:06.469 --> 00:57:06.849
. It's just that we don't necessarily have an immediate

00:57:06.849 --> 00:57:07.159
timeline we have on some of these.

00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:11.300
Number two, number three number four these are all things

00:57:11.300 --> 00:57:15.360
that are lined up to happen the small area plan is underway

00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:19.420
there is what's going to happen with the enforcement work

00:57:19.420 --> 00:57:23.670
currently enforcing the enforcement is high in the UNT area

00:57:23.670 --> 00:57:24.159
.

00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:28.500
And then all these other items but I wouldn't like like to

00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:32.969
start at number eight and talk about the dumpsters on Hick

00:57:32.969 --> 00:57:34.159
ory Street.

00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:40.280
We did reach out to solid waste and found out that the dump

00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:43.159
sters on Hickory right.

00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:47.219
I don't know the address exact address but it's in the

00:57:47.219 --> 00:57:51.329
middle between just west of Carol. There are a couple dump

00:57:51.329 --> 00:57:54.309
sters right in the middle those have been moved according to

00:57:54.309 --> 00:57:57.159
solid waste and they've moved it from the sidewalk.

00:57:57.159 --> 00:58:05.110
The one near on the fry street side. They've worked out a

00:58:05.110 --> 00:58:07.329
way to share the dumpster so it's kind of a better

00:58:07.329 --> 00:58:10.050
situation so solid waste is currently working on getting

00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:11.159
rid of all of this.

00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:15.230
So the dumpsters on Hickory near Carol were they're

00:58:15.230 --> 00:58:20.019
actually looking at a valet service or something different

00:58:20.019 --> 00:58:24.929
kind of the post putting dumpster. So yes I think there are

00:58:24.929 --> 00:58:28.159
steps in the right direction to address.

00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:31.360
So valet service how does that look and our other

00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:35.269
apartments could would other apartments be good candidates

00:58:35.269 --> 00:58:39.019
for this. That's a good question I'll get back to you with

00:58:39.019 --> 00:58:42.650
information from solid it's I'm the middle guy but yeah I

00:58:42.650 --> 00:58:44.159
'll get back to you.

00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:54.159
What is a trash valet service.

00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:58.289
These are smaller containers and it's more frequent. So

00:58:58.289 --> 00:59:01.690
that's why it's called and it's a particular time. So they

00:59:01.690 --> 00:59:05.159
're thinking of certain options even in the square.

00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:08.500
I'm sorry, the big Benzie roll out to the street, something

00:59:08.500 --> 00:59:11.719
similar, but they're thinking of similar options for the

00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:15.159
square in order to get rid of the dumpster in the backside.

00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:19.349
Thinking of valet services, but it's all in the big picture

00:59:19.349 --> 00:59:23.489
planning not yet is covering the dumpsters you know having

00:59:23.489 --> 00:59:27.449
like something in front of them is that the purview of the

00:59:27.449 --> 00:59:31.610
individual businesses, or is that is there a city on that's

00:59:31.610 --> 00:59:33.159
a planning requirement

00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:36.599
that they have to be covered any new dumpster enclosure has

00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.969
to have an enclosure new ones do though but the new there's

00:59:39.969 --> 00:59:43.539
a lot that have been grandfathered and probably correct and

00:59:43.539 --> 00:59:46.159
we're trying to come up with a solution.

00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:48.619
Yeah, and there's just, you know, there's some places where

00:59:48.619 --> 00:59:50.909
you don't notice them at all, but like those ones that just

00:59:50.909 --> 00:59:52.159
face you and tease campus.

00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:56.510
After Thursday nights they're just covered with trash it

00:59:56.510 --> 01:00:01.159
just makes the whole can't that party campus feel trashy.

01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:04.159
Thank you. That's good news.

01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:07.590
All right, met Park we talked about the speed cushions I'm

01:00:07.590 --> 01:00:11.300
jumping to number 10 McKinney sidewalk and that was part of

01:00:11.300 --> 01:00:13.159
the list that was coming up.

01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:17.230
McKinney sidewalk from Oakland to Austin something that you

01:00:17.230 --> 01:00:20.519
brought up and that is on the list of projects to be

01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.159
designed so it will go out to design.

01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:28.230
We're currently working on an RFQ engineering wide, which

01:00:28.230 --> 01:00:31.159
is going to a work session item.

01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:34.590
This month, and then later this month or early next with

01:00:34.590 --> 01:00:38.130
will be selecting firms for design and once we select that

01:00:38.130 --> 01:00:41.659
it's like an umbrella contracts that we don't have to waste

01:00:41.659 --> 01:00:46.500
time, we going through the process but we can pick and

01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:49.159
choose consultants fast so that get the

01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:52.789
completed is where it could treat our trees ever in

01:00:52.789 --> 01:00:57.000
consideration as like a barrier between the street and the

01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:00.960
sidewalks. They are where we have the right of way but a

01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.400
lot of times we don't we have to work somewhere in the

01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:05.159
middle.

01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.900
Yeah, we definitely work with our forester urban forester

01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:14.699
Heywood, a lot. We try and save wherever we can for example

01:01:14.699 --> 01:01:19.159
on Bell. We had to go around and go in the backside.

01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:26.130
We try and save them as much as we can and it's a good

01:01:26.130 --> 01:01:35.159
buffer it's a nice place to walk, especially in summertime.

01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:36.400
But yeah we try but there are some, it depends on right of

01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:37.739
way restrictions there we definitely had right of way with

01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:38.159
city property.

01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:42.650
And then last, last but not least the crossing guard, I did

01:01:42.650 --> 01:01:46.980
talk to our PD police department and discuss this with the

01:01:46.980 --> 01:01:51.480
ISD, they do have a crossing guard at Malone and University

01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:53.159
for Newton Riser.

01:01:53.159 --> 01:02:08.199
So, that's an elementary school, it was part of. I checked

01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:08.429
with both actually I got responses from both of them the IS

01:02:08.429 --> 01:02:08.679
D confirmed that yes, the principal confirmed there is a

01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:08.909
crossing guard, and they also specify the time I can pull

01:02:08.909 --> 01:02:10.159
it out but I have a matrix that shows crossing

01:02:10.159 --> 01:02:13.159
guards different location.

01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:18.159
And PD confirmed that too. So yes, we do have.

01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:32.159
Okay, anybody want to add anything to the matrix.

01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:34.159
Whoa.

01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:36.159
Okay.

01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:40.159
Well I actually do have a question.

01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:44.539
Now I have a question about about sidewalks, and I know

01:02:44.539 --> 01:02:49.039
there were a couple spots when I when I was on planning and

01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:53.929
zoning, where we made the decision that sidewalks needed to

01:02:53.929 --> 01:02:55.159
go there.

01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:57.710
You know there have been different times when somebody had

01:02:57.710 --> 01:03:00.469
asked you know for a variance not to put in a sidewalk. But

01:03:00.469 --> 01:03:05.380
, and some of those places still don't have sidewalks and

01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:06.159
there's.

01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:11.159
You know what I'm talking about.

01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:17.159
But also, so is there a way that we can go back and.

01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:21.030
Where's is, are, is there, are there bread crumbs to for to

01:03:21.030 --> 01:03:24.530
be able to go back to some of these developments that were

01:03:24.530 --> 01:03:28.110
supposed to put in sidewalks but then, you know, things

01:03:28.110 --> 01:03:32.019
change personnel changes institutional memory leaves, and

01:03:32.019 --> 01:03:35.159
the sidewalks are not there.

01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:39.599
Is there any easy way to get in and find where they should

01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:40.159
be.

01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:45.159
And also I know that at Calhoun, and on Eagan Street, there

01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:49.550
was supposed to be a sidewalk that went in on the south

01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:54.460
side of Eagan, and it goes right by the Calhoun field, and

01:03:54.460 --> 01:03:59.159
there is no sidewalk there on either side of the road.

01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:03.719
And during some of the DISD reconstruction, you know years

01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:08.079
ago, there were there was supposed to be some sidewalk put

01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:12.050
in along that stretch along the field, and it hasn't

01:04:12.050 --> 01:04:13.159
happened.

01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.159
But like I said I understand how things.

01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:19.800
We lose some of things as we lose personnel and new people

01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:23.489
come in, but is are there breadcrumbs to follow. If you

01:04:23.489 --> 01:04:26.159
tell me how to follow them I'll follow them.

01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:32.679
Once, once it once once it's approved it's approved so what

01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:35.159
happened this tip.

01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:38.590
All the new current standards require sidewalk no matter

01:04:38.590 --> 01:04:39.159
what.

01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:42.159
So, that's a good thing.

01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:47.369
Previously was not the case it was some of the developers

01:04:47.369 --> 01:04:52.159
were able to convince folks to not put in sidewalks.

01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:56.099
Once the developer leaves and if there is no HOA, which is

01:04:56.099 --> 01:04:59.630
which is what previously used to be there used to be a

01:04:59.630 --> 01:05:03.159
single entity that everyone was entitled to.

01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:07.550
Now there is most of the new subdivisions previously that

01:05:07.550 --> 01:05:11.969
it wasn't the case. So if you don't have one entity that

01:05:11.969 --> 01:05:16.269
deals with it is not willing to come forward and do certain

01:05:16.269 --> 01:05:20.860
improvement then it becomes a really tough challenging for

01:05:20.860 --> 01:05:23.369
every parcel that the city has to approach and get that

01:05:23.369 --> 01:05:24.159
thing lined up.

01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:28.019
But if you have an HOA for example I'm working with Wheeler

01:05:28.019 --> 01:05:31.550
Ridge and their that HOA is proactive they want to put

01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:35.639
stuff on their own. Like we put in new striping if the city

01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:39.210
agrees if you agree so if we give them the go ahead, they

01:05:39.210 --> 01:05:44.159
're willing to pay the money so that that's how forward

01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:48.159
thinking HOA can become and work for the community so.

01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:53.880
Right. There's been some redevelopment projects over over

01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:57.769
the years. And the developer then was supposed to put in

01:05:57.769 --> 01:06:01.269
sidewalks and and the only reason I knew about them because

01:06:01.269 --> 01:06:04.159
of being on planning and zoning at that time.

01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:08.269
And they came in to ask for a variance and the variance was

01:06:08.269 --> 01:06:09.159
denied.

01:06:09.159 --> 01:06:15.159
There's no sidewalk there.

01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:19.159
Good question.

01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:27.159
Yes.

01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:39.159
Okay.

01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:50.159
She can find that.

01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:53.159
Okay. So contact Jennifer.

01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:55.159
Yep. Okay.

01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:57.159
Okay.

01:06:57.159 --> 01:07:00.159
All right. Thank you.

01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:04.909
Okay, I do have one small matrix I'm sorry gave me too much

01:07:04.909 --> 01:07:09.519
time to think on Hickory, there's several spots and I'm

01:07:09.519 --> 01:07:13.159
talking about just to the east of Carol.

01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:19.059
There's several spots where we have sidewalks, where there

01:07:19.059 --> 01:07:24.960
's just curbs and there's no ramps, which obviously and this

01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:30.599
is pretty close to the square, is that something simple we

01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.159
can look at to just adding ramps.

01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:37.500
If you if you're on the circuit on the north side of this

01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:41.219
of Hickory, like kind of where the little breakfast places

01:07:41.219 --> 01:07:44.539
you know I'm talking about, and the sushi places the

01:07:44.539 --> 01:07:46.159
science still there.

01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:48.539
The right there like there's several spots there's a couple

01:07:48.539 --> 01:07:50.739
spots right there where there's curbs and so it'd be inac

01:07:50.739 --> 01:07:53.050
cessible to a wheelchair is that something we could look at

01:07:53.050 --> 01:07:54.159
it just needs a ramp.

01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:58.059
Basically, I don't know if you have to redo things to do

01:07:58.059 --> 01:08:00.159
that or if you're able to just.

01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:05.449
Yes, we can absolutely look at, and I'll have to look but

01:08:05.449 --> 01:08:10.159
there are sometimes funds just for ADA updates.

01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:15.110
So, these are things that can be quickly turned around and

01:08:15.110 --> 01:08:20.090
the real challenge challenging part is, if we go there and

01:08:20.090 --> 01:08:24.880
if we see that the current sidewalk that's connecting and

01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:29.619
coming to that particular driveway or any side street is

01:08:29.619 --> 01:08:31.159
not in compliance,

01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.319
and it that triggers and most of the times that's the case

01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.340
is you look at the sidewalk, it does not have the right

01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:40.310
cross slope, and then everything you look at either

01:08:40.310 --> 01:08:43.630
direction now you're talking about a big project as opposed

01:08:43.630 --> 01:08:46.159
to just putting in those ramps.

01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:55.109
So that's that's the dilemma that the city always is in is

01:08:55.109 --> 01:09:02.729
if you put something in connecting to it has to be

01:09:02.729 --> 01:09:05.159
compliant.

01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:08.159
Okay, anything else.

01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:16.720
With that, it is 642 and we can adjourn. Thank you

01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:18.159
everybody. Thank you.