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Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Traffic

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Safety Commission meeting

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of Monday February 5th 2018. It's 530 we have a quorum. We

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're going to look at the

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first item for individual consideration which is 1A TSC 18-

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006 which is to

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hold a discussion and appoint a chairperson and vice chair

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person for the

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Traffic Safety Commission. Do we have any nominations from

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the floor?

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I'll nominate Patrice's chair.

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Second.

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That was fast.

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We were already sitting there.

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I'll nominate Daniel Krupp for vice chair.

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I'll second.

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He shows up.

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Okay.

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Any other nominations? Any discussion? Any campaign stumps?

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Speech.

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I will make all your Traffic Safety Commission needs happen

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.

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Does that give you the guaranteed parking space?

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Yeah this could be corrupt real quick. No I'm kidding.

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Yeah I'd be happy to serve and I've worked with Patrice and

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I think can hopefully help out.

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Thank you.

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Alright shall we take a vote? We have a slate of chair and

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vice chair. Everyone agrees?

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Okay. I'm voting for you not for me.

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Okay.

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Moving on then.

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Excuse me.

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Okay. Item 1B TSC 18-007 is to consider the approval of the

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Traffic Safety Commission meetings of January 3rd, 2018.

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Did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes? Does

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anybody have any changes? Any amendments?

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Do I have to abstain from approving it since I wasn't here?

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I think that technically yes.

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Call for the vote.

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Anybody want to move approval?

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One motion.

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Okay. Second?

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Second.

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All in favor?

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Aye.

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Yes. Okay.

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With one abstention.

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With one abstention. Okay. And then 1C TCS 18-009 to

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receive a report, hold a discussion regarding short term

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small transportation projects.

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Thank you, Preetem.

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Good evening everyone. I'm Preetem Deshmukh, the traffic

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engineer for the city. And this item is, and the next one

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is a discussion item.

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Just no real actions are needed at this time. I just wanted

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to make sure that the Traffic Safety Commission was aware

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of what was going on in the council, what kind of projects

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are getting approved and moving forward,

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and why they were, some of them were kind of not really

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bypassed, but why they were really cut down on scheduled

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and expedited.

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It was a direct council request. So let me start with the

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first one, which is the small transportation projects.

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It all began, I think, back in August when the council,

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city council retreat happened, council gave direction to

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the executive team to come up with real short term, smaller

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projects that could fix intersections.

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So let me, actually, visual person.

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And so, the management team came to staff and they're like,

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which are these projects that we can actually move forward

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and address some of the congestion issues and we came up

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with a list and if you look at their list of intersections,

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we had a list of about 20 intersections and other

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improvement projects within that list. The first six based

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on the available funding were selected by council and these

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are the first six.

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And if you look at them, there are pretty much locations

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that are currently really congested, and I'll pull up a map

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and go over each of them a little bit detailed so you

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understand what the improvements are.

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So the first one is loop 288 and Colorado.

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I mean, everyone knows how bad it is.

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So if you look at, actually the aerial supports the finding

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so this is a small project, it's not a huge project that is

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going to widen any of these streets, but this project is

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going to at least begin to address some of the issues and

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if you look at this

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this is what was included in the project. What we were

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planning to do is add another left turn lane, remove the

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median, make two left turn lanes all the way extend up to

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this point.

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So everyone that's stacked up here and way back sometimes

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all the way to the bus stop, those can actually get into

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these two lanes and out of the through traffic.

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So that that was the point. With that there were some

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improvements with the signal also that will be made so that

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people can actually make the dual left turns.

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There are some issues with grading and drainage and we'll

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work with that but that is current.

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That is the improvement.

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Big picture we may talk to the mall back in the day mall

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did not like taking this access out. So we'll we'll see if

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that's an option when we're through the engineering phase.

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If we take out this access it'll really clear many issues

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here especially people trying to make this left while this

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is backed up and you only have one lane that cars are z

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ipping by.

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It's a safety issue right there so you can't actually look

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past the first car while these people are trying to make

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the green light at 30 35 miles an hour.

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So, we haven't really contacted them all.

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So, before I go through all each of these projects I'll

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talk about the schedule and how we're going to move forward

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quickly with these with these projects.

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The second one is the country club Hickory Road and that

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that intersection has similar issues, especially when you

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come up on to country club.

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This particular approach is a single lane and a lot of

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times you find yourself stuck if you if you ever take this

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there's one person that wants to turn left and there are a

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bunch of folks about 78 cars I want to turn right and they

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are stuck behind this one left turn car.

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So, what essentially this project is going to look at is

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widening this approach to add a right turn lane and that

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right turn most likely would extend about 200 feet.

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That would allow any left turners say about 10 cars that

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want to turn left that stack up in that lane while these

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right turners can sneak around and make those right turns.

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So, that would definitely add capacity long term

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improvement for this location would be signalizing it but

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that needs to work with text out a lot and get their plans

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in line for 1830.

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The next one is US 77 Dallas Drive.

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That's an interesting intersection.

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It already looks like a big intersection that's completely

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blown up.

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But it has some issues with wide turning angles here, car

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sweeping by faster.

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These two right turn lane movements are really fast.

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We want to close them in line with the capacity that way

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they work better.

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Most importantly, this is the left turn that we're focusing

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on.

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There are some grading and drainage issues here.

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If you want to add a second left turn lane so you'll have

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dual left turn that way anyone traveling in a true lane

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does not have to back up or wait behind the left turn.

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I mean you see it every day.

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This queue kind of backs into the true lane and the traffic

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barely moves.

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So that's another short term improvement that was included.

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Next one is--

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Can I ask a question on that?

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Sure.

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That would just become like a 90 degree turn as opposed to

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the swoop.

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Is that right?

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Yes, this will be a tighter turn.

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Okay.

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And what may happen, and depending on the volume, our

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analysis will include the volume, but what may happen is

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this extra space that's being used for this making it

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tighter will go towards these merge lane kind of deal.

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So they will still be open to make the turn and then they

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can slowly merge into the true traffic.

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So that's a slower merge as opposed to you coming in at 25

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miles or 30 miles an hour.

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The next one is Bell and McKinney.

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Everyone knows how bad that intersection is.

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It does not have any left turn lanes and it's tough given

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the given the buildings on the side, especially this twice

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as nice and some of these gas station buildings.

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There is no room to widen.

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But what we were able to do is work with Tim Beatty to get

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a sliver of his parking area and put a right turn lane

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there.

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So that's working out with them getting some of the eas

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ements here that they want for this particular facility that

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they're working on.

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At the same time, we get this piece of property to make

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that right turn.

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It will help because a lot of times you will see people

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that want to make a right turn can slip into this lane

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instead of waiting for the true traffic.

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So can I ask a question on this one?

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This is what I'm interested in.

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So I think a big issue here is this as of now, and I don't

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know thinking towards the future, we don't know what

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developments are going to come over, but we know this is

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between TW and the Dart station.

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This is so to me, this is just part of the closest part of

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the urban core. So I have two questions.

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One, what is a right turn lane do in your opinion to walk

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ability when this intersection is already not great for

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pedestrian safety?

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And is there anything we could do along with this in

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association with this to help walkability here?

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Yes. What has happened is we've worked with Tim and this

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particular area.

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I think this is all nicely graded at this point.

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But this particular area, there's a path.

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And I think in the past, our bike path coordinator, Julie,

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had worked with them to put a multi-use path trail from

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here through this public property, private property.

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And then put in, there's also a sidewalk here to connect

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this particular station area to the core through here.

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The new segment or new piece that we're working with is

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along with getting this right turn piece, we are giving

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them an easement along this section.

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And we're asking them not only improve section in front of

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this particular building that they're upgrading, but also

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put in a sidewalk in front of these parking spaces.

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So what they're going to do is create a clear connection of

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sidewalk path in this particular area to get to this corner

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.

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Now, once you get to that corner, there's issues with the

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sidewalk to walk along this building.

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I mean, if you look at this, this is not even close to

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being ADA compliant.

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So all of this, within the same project, within this right

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turn, we are planning on relocating.

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We worked with DME to relocate that light onto the building

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.

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So it's like a cooperative agreement between Tim Beatty and

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us to get those, sorry about that, to get the light poles

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removed.

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These light poles can be removed.

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The other light poles can be removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

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00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:15,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

258
00:14:15,159 --> 00:14:17,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

259
00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:19,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

260
00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:21,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

261
00:14:21,159 --> 00:14:23,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

262
00:14:23,159 --> 00:14:25,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

263
00:14:25,159 --> 00:14:27,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

264
00:14:27,159 --> 00:14:29,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

265
00:14:29,159 --> 00:14:31,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

266
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:33,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

267
00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:35,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

268
00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:37,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

269
00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:39,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

270
00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:41,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

271
00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:43,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

272
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

273
00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:47,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

274
00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:49,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

275
00:14:49,159 --> 00:14:51,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

276
00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:53,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

277
00:14:53,159 --> 00:14:55,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

278
00:14:55,159 --> 00:14:57,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

279
00:14:57,159 --> 00:14:59,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

280
00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:01,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

281
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:03,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

282
00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:05,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

283
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:07,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

284
00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:09,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

285
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

286
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:13,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

287
00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:15,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

288
00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:17,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

289
00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:19,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

290
00:15:19,159 --> 00:15:21,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

291
00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:23,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

292
00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:25,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

293
00:15:25,159 --> 00:15:27,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

294
00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:29,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

295
00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:31,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

296
00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:33,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

297
00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:35,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

298
00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:37,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

299
00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:39,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

300
00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:41,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

301
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:43,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

302
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:45,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

303
00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:47,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

304
00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:49,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

305
00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:51,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

306
00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:53,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

307
00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:55,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

308
00:15:55,159 --> 00:15:57,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

309
00:15:57,159 --> 00:15:59,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

310
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

311
00:16:01,159 --> 00:16:03,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

312
00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:05,159
So we're going to have to get the light poles removed.

313
00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:08,159
Yeah, with Texas, whether it's kind of tough to upkeep all

314
00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:14,700
the pavement marking, it's -- yeah, they have a program

315
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:18,159
that they revisit pavement markings every -- I think every

316
00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:21,159
five years they come back and try and maintain that.

317
00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:24,159
But it's been a challenge with the resources.

318
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:27,159
But due to the noted, we can get this painted.

319
00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:31,159
I mean, I'll have someone look into this right now.

320
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:33,159
And two other small things real quick.

321
00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:38,169
One is have we considered doing the advanced walk signal

322
00:16:38,169 --> 00:16:43,159
where the pedestrian gets the head start on traffic?

323
00:16:43,159 --> 00:16:44,159
I don't know.

324
00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:45,159
I've seen that posed in some areas.

325
00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,600
And then I guess the other thing is just do -- I'm just

326
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,159
throwing out the question.

327
00:16:49,159 --> 00:16:52,590
I think we only have about a one-mile radius, maybe if you

328
00:16:52,590 --> 00:16:55,950
extend over to campus two miles, where I really think we

329
00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:59,840
should think about prioritizing pedestrians, the whole city

330
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:00,159
.

331
00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:01,159
Right.

332
00:17:01,159 --> 00:17:03,159
I just wonder what is another turn lane?

333
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:06,180
How much traffic does it alleviate and how much does it

334
00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:09,420
just create more space for cars in the middle lanes to then

335
00:17:09,420 --> 00:17:10,160
zoom by?

336
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,099
Because I just will -- just as an anecdotal example, I

337
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:16,170
remember coming off the Dart station in this area with my

338
00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:18,160
nieces who came in on the train.

339
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,539
And we all felt terrified that if one of them left us for

340
00:17:20,539 --> 00:17:23,160
one second, they were going to get destroyed by a car.

341
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,160
And this is in the core of Denton.

342
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,559
And so I just question, should we be adding more driving

343
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:31,950
lanes in an area that's really already been built so much

344
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:35,539
for cars and start considering, is there's just this one

345
00:17:35,539 --> 00:17:38,160
square mile where we could start thinking about bike lanes,

346
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,160
sidewalks, and prioritizing those things?

347
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,349
I know it's a tough sell in Texas, but I'm just throwing it

348
00:17:44,349 --> 00:17:45,160
out there.

349
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,160
Yeah.

350
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:47,160
No.

351
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,160
We are looking at all angles.

352
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,349
The way we look at it is there are two types of facilities

353
00:17:54,349 --> 00:17:57,160
as far as transportation.

354
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,650
There are facilities that are safe for all modes, and there

355
00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:05,160
are facilities just meant for moving cars.

356
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,400
And I think right now, Bell, especially this particular

357
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,210
corridor, is kind of in the influx where it is a major

358
00:18:13,210 --> 00:18:17,339
corridor that cuts through and has a lot of traffic, a lot

359
00:18:17,339 --> 00:18:21,339
of vehicles getting in and out of TW, even our downtown

360
00:18:21,339 --> 00:18:22,160
area.

361
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,900
But what is the primary classification as far as what is

362
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:31,160
the primary use of this particular facility?

363
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,160
That needs to be nailed down.

364
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,789
If we're going to address each and every type of mode of

365
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:40,359
transportation, there are some corridors that are really

366
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,160
not meant to have pedestrians or bicycles on it.

367
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,359
Yes, they can cross, they can become a facility that

368
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:47,160
crosses it.

369
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,650
But if you classify and start looking at certain areas that

370
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:55,140
way, it makes more sense just because if we make all of

371
00:18:55,140 --> 00:19:00,049
them pedestrian friendly and bike friendly, cars just would

372
00:19:00,049 --> 00:19:02,160
not move within the entire core of Denton.

373
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,160
And that becomes an issue too.

374
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,619
That would be a good motivator for them to take different

375
00:19:06,619 --> 00:19:07,160
routes.

376
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,359
Well, I agree, except I'm just, is Bell not one of those

377
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,160
ones we should reconsider?

378
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,160
Because it's between the Dart station, the Square, and TW.

379
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,750
It's one of the most common areas that has the most

380
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:20,160
potential to increase bike and walking.

381
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,599
And so, again, I'm good on giving up a lot of areas of Dent

382
00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:27,029
on to cars completely, but it just seems like that's one,

383
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:30,089
even though it has a lot of traffic, where it may be worth

384
00:19:30,089 --> 00:19:31,160
reconsidering.

385
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,170
I think cross connectors like Sycamore will putting a trail

386
00:19:35,170 --> 00:19:38,160
or even this way on Hickory and McKinney.

387
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,160
Cross connectors makes a little bit more sense.

388
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,160
On Bell itself, it's a tough sell.

389
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,160
It has too much traffic, way too much traffic.

390
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,859
And I think most of the people, if you look at the entire

391
00:19:51,859 --> 00:19:54,809
stretch of Bell, the people affected will be people that

392
00:19:54,809 --> 00:19:58,839
live in the northern section, north of TW, trying to

393
00:19:58,839 --> 00:20:00,160
commute and get to 35.

394
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,160
And that would be a tough sell for them, too.

395
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,160
Finding other connections and routes.

396
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,160
But if they're trying to get to 35 and they're north of TW,

397
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,259
would there not be some, a little bit more of a catalyst to

398
00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:18,160
go out to the loop?

399
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,160
And then loop becomes an issue down here.

400
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,160
So which is the worst of the two evils?

401
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,160
It just gets to that.

402
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,160
You have to play a balancing act.

403
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,160
I am one of those people that avoid going.

404
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,799
Like I live up in the Northeastern Park and I almost never

405
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:37,160
go down by the mall.

406
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:43,000
If we need to go south, we go out through 380 or most of

407
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,160
the time we take Bell.

408
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,160
Is there any room to move or to eat into the other side of

409
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,160
the street?

410
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,160
Just the other side.

411
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,650
I don't know how to ask this. Or by the gas station because

412
00:20:58,650 --> 00:21:01,160
there's those parking spots and it's just a bunch of cement

413
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:01,160
.

414
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,950
And whenever I run over there, I feel safest because I can

415
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:07,160
scoot way in on that sidewalk.

416
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,309
It's private property at this point, so it would be an

417
00:21:11,309 --> 00:21:12,160
issue.

418
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,799
We'll have to, eminent domain by, we have to have a good

419
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:17,160
justification.

420
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,160
We could find one, I'm sure.

421
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,119
That's just as scary once you move about a block south,

422
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,160
like right there at Bell and Hickory.

423
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,160
Yeah, that's bad.

424
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,160
I used to walk there every day and it's horrifying.

425
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,160
These cars blow right by you.

426
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,160
Okay, there are a couple more locations.

427
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,160
Carol at Sherman is one of them.

428
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:43,630
This is where most of the people, almost literally traffic

429
00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:48,160
wise, Carol ends here and merges into Sherman,

430
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:55,160
which then leaves town 426, I believe, 423.

431
00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:01,160
So this intersection has major turning radius issues.

432
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:07,160
This corner is not enough for a vehicle to make this turn.

433
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,980
Even with the two lanes, there's a dual right turn if you

434
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:11,160
look at that signal.

435
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,019
There are two right turn lanes and vehicles that are trying

436
00:22:15,019 --> 00:22:17,160
to make the right at the same time,

437
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,299
they're so close or if you look at this curve, they almost

438
00:22:21,299 --> 00:22:23,160
go over it all the time.

439
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,160
So.

440
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,160
What's happening right there?

441
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,000
Just a bunch of, like they're just scattered in a little

442
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,160
parking lot.

443
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,160
All the little parking bumpers.

444
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,160
Oh these, oh yeah.

445
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,160
Is that big to like deter?

446
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,160
No idea.

447
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,160
They probably washed away.

448
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,160
I have no idea.

449
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,920
But this corner will be updated so that you can better turn

450
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,160
, making it safer.

451
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,799
At times there are trucks that are lined up here to make

452
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:57,160
into this back area of Kroger and all these businesses

453
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,500
and you have one or two trucks here, this thing backs into

454
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,160
this particular driveway.

455
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,160
And it starts creating back up in this area.

456
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,920
If those trucks are shifted to this, making by making a

457
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,160
left turn here,

458
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,799
if they're shifted and these two can go through, it will

459
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:19,160
help a lot for these folks to clear off and get out.

460
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,960
So that would relieve congestion between University and

461
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,160
Sherman along Carol Northbound.

462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,160
So that's another little improvement.

463
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,160
It's not, it won't cost that much.

464
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,339
It's just eliminating the island, but it's going to help

465
00:23:33,339 --> 00:23:36,160
alleviate some of the congestion.

466
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:46,220
And then the last but not the least is Old Road at the

467
00:23:46,220 --> 00:23:49,160
University.

468
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,839
There are no left turn lanes today in the north and south

469
00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:54,160
direction here.

470
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,160
There is a right turn lane.

471
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,859
If you see this little, this is the right turn lane and

472
00:23:57,859 --> 00:23:59,160
this is a through left.

473
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,799
Same thing, there's a through left and a wider shoulder so

474
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:05,160
that people can easily make a right.

475
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,910
So there are no left turn lanes in both of these approaches

476
00:24:07,910 --> 00:24:08,160
.

477
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,500
And part of the reason that these left turn lanes cannot be

478
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:16,160
protected is the left turn lane is not there.

479
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,160
So we're starting the first step.

480
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,799
We'll look into what needs, what do we need as far as

481
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:27,160
signalizing it later on as for us to protect it.

482
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,160
But that's the last improvement.

483
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,160
These were taken to council.

484
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,160
They've approved the monies.

485
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,160
And we're moving forward.

486
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,099
The timeline for this is we're planning on getting the

487
00:24:39,099 --> 00:24:41,160
design done by end of April

488
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:46,200
and then bidding them out to different contractors to get

489
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,160
them constructed.

490
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,160
The bidding process probably take about three months.

491
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,160
So the construction should be started in fall.

492
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,119
Most likely by October every single project would be under

493
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,160
construction.

494
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,160
We're planning on wrapping them up by end of the year.

495
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,759
So that's the fast pace, fast track that we've been ordered

496
00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:07,160
.

497
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,160
So any questions?

498
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,160
I think we had some discussion.

499
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,160
So just would there be more updates or is --

500
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,289
We can come back with more updates once we probably get to

501
00:25:18,289 --> 00:25:22,160
construction maybe or even before that.

502
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,160
Just let us know we can bring back updates.

503
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,160
I think they all look great and make sense.

504
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,119
I just -- the Bell one is the only one that I'd just like

505
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,160
to keep thinking about.

506
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,160
I don't know.

507
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,640
I just -- I can't think -- get over like if that's actually

508
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,160
going to be --

509
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,380
the DART's ever going to actually be a meaningful form of

510
00:25:38,380 --> 00:25:39,160
transportation.

511
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,900
We have to some point prioritize getting people who would

512
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:45,160
use the DART there.

513
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,160
And that's just my thought.

514
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,799
I don't know what's possible, but I'd love to explore other

515
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:52,160
options for Bell.

516
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,869
And if there is anywhere else that could take those cars if

517
00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:57,160
people felt pushed from them

518
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,160
because it became more pedestrian friendly.

519
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,160
Good point.

520
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,160
Okay.

521
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:13,380
With no more discussion, we'll move on to 1D, TSC 18-010,

522
00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:15,160
which is to receive a report

523
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,599
and hold a discussion regarding tax increment financing

524
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,160
reinvestment zone projects.

525
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,160
So what are you saying, Daniel?

526
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,029
We heard and we're going to come back with a lot of

527
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:30,160
pedestrian projects.

528
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,160
How about that?

529
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,160
Woo-hoo.

530
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,869
So it's in the downtown area, and this is funded by the TIR

531
00:26:40,869 --> 00:26:41,160
Z,

532
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,160
tax increment financing reinvestment zone.

533
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,880
And essentially what this is, it's looking beyond the

534
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,160
actual square.

535
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,160
These are pedestrian facilities, including lighting.

536
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,480
This is one of the good items that was introduced, is

537
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:56,160
lighting.

538
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,819
A lot of times you have a pedestrian path, but the lighting

539
00:26:59,819 --> 00:27:00,160
is so bad,

540
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,160
no one wants to really go in the back alley.

541
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,160
So they were thinking of both elements in here.

542
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,160
And there was a little presentation.

543
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,160
I don't want to go through the details on the AIS,

544
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,160
but there was a little presentation that went to council.

545
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:29,160
And I will bring it up right now.

546
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,160
So this is the presentation that council looked at.

547
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,730
I mean, some of the numbers were changed, as to dollar

548
00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:35,160
amounts and figures.

549
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,539
They've changed slightly, but this gives you an idea of the

550
00:27:38,539 --> 00:27:41,160
overview of where these...

551
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,160
So this is the downtown TIF area.

552
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,160
This is the square right here.

553
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,160
Anything on the outside of the square, this is Elm, Locust,

554
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,160
and then we're talking about Oak and Hickory.

555
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,190
The projects along Oak and Hickory are primarily lighting

556
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:59,160
projects.

557
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,160
So let's go with the first one.

558
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,160
This is North Locust.

559
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,500
We're looking at primarily between Oak and McKinney, the

560
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:10,160
sidewalks on both sides.

561
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,160
There's some major parking.

562
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,160
There's a parking area, but it's completely damaged.

563
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,279
It's a channel for water to go into the drainage inlet

564
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:24,160
there, so it's completely destroyed.

565
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,519
That will be replaced, and the sidewalk along with these

566
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:28,160
red dots

567
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,160
are where the lighting poles will be for pedestrians.

568
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,160
So this is the first project, Project A.

569
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:44,160
Then you go to the second, which is North Elm.

570
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,160
And this is a little bit longer project.

571
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,160
It starts from Oak.

572
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,849
It goes to McKinney and then extends from McKinney all the

573
00:28:52,849 --> 00:28:54,160
way to Parkway.

574
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,440
And the sidewalks will include ADA ramps at the

575
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,160
intersection.

576
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,440
It will include any ADA components at each of these drive

577
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,160
ways,

578
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,160
anything that has to do with access.

579
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,160
It will be ADA compliant.

580
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,160
All the new sidewalks will.

581
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,990
And then they will be adding a bunch of lighting on either

582
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:15,160
side of the street.

583
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,819
So these segments are going to start looking nicer and much

584
00:29:19,819 --> 00:29:21,160
more accessible

585
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,160
and much more pedestrian-friendly.

586
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,160
The remaining two segments are just adding lighting.

587
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,160
You have sidewalks on each of these sections.

588
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,160
It's Oak.

589
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Some pieces might be missing, but Oak from Carroll to Elm.

590
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,099
We're adding lighting so that it gets lighted up much more

591
00:29:39,099 --> 00:29:40,160
appealing,

592
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,160
even for bicyclists at that point.

593
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,160
The other one was Hickory.

594
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,160
And the same thing, there's a bicycle lane,

595
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,940
so it will be more appealing to bicyclists coming in this

596
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:51,160
way,

597
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,160
as well as pedestrians that need to walk.

598
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,160
These are the projects that were approved.

599
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,829
And the schedule for these projects is similar to the

600
00:30:00,829 --> 00:30:02,160
previous item.

601
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,160
It is fast-tracked.

602
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,160
It is supposed to get designed by April

603
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,309
and hopefully wrap up construction by the end of this

604
00:30:11,309 --> 00:30:12,160
fiscal year

605
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,160
or most likely end of the year.

606
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,160
Any questions?

607
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,160
What kind of lighting is it?

608
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,160
Is it standard poles we've had in other places?

609
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:26,160
These will most likely be the ones that are down Oak,

610
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,160
all the decorative lighting, pedestrian poles,

611
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160
the decorative lighting that council approved for.

612
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,160
I think it's already installed.

613
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,970
They are going to also change lighting for the new parking

614
00:30:37,970 --> 00:30:39,160
lot around it.

615
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:44,160
It will be the same design, same type of pole.

616
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,160
So the lighting is coming out of the tip?

617
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,160
Correct.

618
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,380
So the lights of Oak and Hickory are paid for by a

619
00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:52,160
foundation,

620
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,160
I believe, a historic foundation.

621
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,160
Or at least they're raising money for that.

622
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,160
So is that...

623
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,160
That might be west of Carroll.

624
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,160
This is between Carroll and Elk.

625
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,160
But is it going to match that?

626
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,160
It's going to match that.

627
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,160
I think currently what is on Oak is same as what is all

628
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,160
around the square area.

629
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,160
So it's a similar design.

630
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,160
What street did you say they're raising money for?

631
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,609
Well, you'll notice on Oak west of Carroll there's a

632
00:31:21,609 --> 00:31:23,160
historic looking building.

633
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,359
And I think they're going to be putting some on Hickory

634
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:27,160
pretty soon.

635
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,160
Yeah, and that's...

636
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,160
After their debit is structured.

637
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,160
Yeah, and actually those are grants.

638
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160
That's going to be Hunts fundraising.

639
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,160
Those are the ones, yeah.

640
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,160
That's the type of pole that would be put in.

641
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,440
Yeah, it's much...the lights are so much closer to

642
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,160
pedestrians and cyclists.

643
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,160
Yeah, I think this is pedestrian.

644
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,359
This is not the typical arm that's over for the cars that

645
00:31:50,359 --> 00:31:51,160
pass by.

646
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,160
Yes, this is pedestrian.

647
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,160
Yeah, and that's the most needed on Hickory.

648
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,380
I think I've said, but you can't even...it's so dark at

649
00:31:59,380 --> 00:32:00,160
night.

650
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,160
It's unsafe, but you can't even use the bike lane.

651
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,160
It's so dark you can't see in front of you.

652
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,160
Well, they're waiting until they finish the paving project.

653
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,160
For Hickory?

654
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,160
For Hickory.

655
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,160
Yes.

656
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,160
Yeah.

657
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,160
All right, any more questions?

658
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,430
I have a question just about the clarification of this

659
00:32:20,430 --> 00:32:22,160
commission's role on things like that.

660
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,309
So we've got the other report just to update if things have

661
00:32:25,309 --> 00:32:27,160
been approved in this.

662
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,160
Are you just kind of informing us as a courtesy?

663
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,160
Like it's already been...how does that work?

664
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,529
Yeah, so what happened is the way these projects were

665
00:32:36,529 --> 00:32:42,220
generated came through direct council requests to staff to

666
00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:44,160
look into and bring it back to them.

667
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,220
If this came from some request and there was a new project

668
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:54,220
form from a resident or some other HOAs, organizations,

669
00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:57,339
then it would go to traffic safety first and then to

670
00:32:57,339 --> 00:32:58,160
council.

671
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,769
These were directly requested by council, so they went

672
00:33:00,769 --> 00:33:02,160
directly back to council. That's what happened.

673
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,500
But I wanted to let you guys know that this is what's

674
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:08,160
coming and this is what's happening.

675
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,160
And we are moving forward on good projects.

676
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,500
It's just that...yeah, we didn't have any action item today

677
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:17,160
, sorry.

678
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,160
No, that's fine.

679
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,160
Every once in a while we do.

680
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,160
Can I ask one question on that?

681
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,160
Yeah.

682
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,579
So one thing I've also...I repeat myself a lot in here, so

683
00:33:26,579 --> 00:33:28,160
at least I'm consistent.

684
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,299
We've talked about being able to find approved projects as

685
00:33:32,299 --> 00:33:37,039
a way so that the council, you know, and we understand what

686
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:41,480
's already being done, so I'm not coming in like repeating

687
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,160
myself on a project that's upcoming.

688
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,319
What's the best place to find all of those previously

689
00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:50,160
approved projects?

690
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,160
Good question.

691
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,789
These things have changed a lot in the last year, so these

692
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:59,970
are really...these came out in the last two to three months

693
00:33:59,970 --> 00:34:00,160
.

694
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,440
It has not been that long that these projects were

695
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,160
conceived.

696
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,170
We were asked to look into quick turnaround projects and

697
00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:08,159
come back.

698
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:13,079
Typically, there's a list of CIP projects, so they're long-

699
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:16,219
term, bigger, widening projects that are always being

700
00:34:16,219 --> 00:34:17,159
considered.

701
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,920
We look at what's next, what's needed, and we go through a

702
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,690
whole process, and then most likely they go through the

703
00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:28,179
bond committee to get them on the bond, and then we go for

704
00:34:28,179 --> 00:34:30,159
bond funds to fund them.

705
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,159
So that's typically the project.

706
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,159
That's the process for all of these projects.

707
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:38,159
But there are sometimes these smaller projects.

708
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,860
There's also similar sidewalk program that we have, and

709
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:45,800
there are lists of sidewalk projects that we've prioritized

710
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,159
.

711
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:48,159
We created a ranking system.

712
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:53,170
Any new concern or any new request that comes in, "Hey,

713
00:34:53,170 --> 00:34:57,159
sidewalk in front of my door is not there.

714
00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,440
I need this gap closure," that's added to the list and

715
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,159
ranked.

716
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:05,159
Depending on how it ranks, it slowly gets funded.

717
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:07,159
In the previous bond election, we had $2 million.

718
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:11,139
We're working on spending all of that, getting some of

719
00:35:11,139 --> 00:35:14,159
these bigger sidewalk projects done.

720
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:20,159
I can show you that there's some discussion in the matrix

721
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:26,030
that I can pull up the sidewalk spreadsheet, but let me

722
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:28,159
bring it up now.

723
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:29,159
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

724
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,989
If I go to the City of Denton site, could I find it if I

725
00:35:31,989 --> 00:35:34,969
was a citizen or if I was on this committee, would we be

726
00:35:34,969 --> 00:35:36,159
able to find it?

727
00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:44,159
We are working towards making it more transparent. This

728
00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:44,159
list at some point will be available on the website.

729
00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:46,159
These are all the ranked projects.

730
00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:50,349
A lot of them have been -- we're working on completing

731
00:35:50,349 --> 00:35:52,159
either our design.

732
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:54,159
Let me see.

733
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:56,159
This is where you can actually tell.

734
00:35:56,159 --> 00:35:58,159
These are the ones that were completed.

735
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:04,710
When they were completed, it tells you March 2017, May,

736
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:07,539
September. These are the projects that were sidewalks that

737
00:36:07,539 --> 00:36:08,159
we've completed.

738
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:10,159
Design, construction.

739
00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:14,159
Then we move to -- these are currently under construction.

740
00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:17,630
Now, if you look at one, it's on Oakland across the street

741
00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:21,000
that is currently ill-started construction in the next

742
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,159
couple weeks.

743
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:28,940
The rest of them have been completed. Congress, Southside

744
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:31,159
of McKinney, Almond Cedar, Mulberry has been completed.

745
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:32,159
I saw that one done.

746
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:34,159
We have a list and we're working towards it.

747
00:36:34,159 --> 00:36:40,159
The next ones will be some of these other bond funded.

748
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:43,159
We have a bunch that are ready for design.

749
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,159
These are ready for design.

750
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,159
These will go next.

751
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:51,030
If you look at the amount, they look smaller amounts, but

752
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:55,159
when you combine them, it totally adds up to $2 million.

753
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:59,159
We are in the process and this is what we're tracking.

754
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:03,159
Yes, at some point, it will be on the website.

755
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:05,420
I think what would help is if I could sit down and say,

756
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:07,159
okay, these are the problem areas.

757
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,159
These are being addressed already, but these ones are made.

758
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:13,159
That way we could bring that up.

759
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:17,159
Can we get e-mail updates on projects like this?

760
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:19,159
Could that be something that could be e-mailed to us?

761
00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:23,590
Typically, if the project -- I think this information is

762
00:37:23,590 --> 00:37:28,159
sent out through the public information office.

763
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:33,250
If you want to get e-mails of when this is completed, I

764
00:37:33,250 --> 00:37:37,699
think council is already requesting status on these

765
00:37:37,699 --> 00:37:40,159
projects that are currently under --

766
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:44,159
so they typically get updates in the Friday reports.

767
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:47,610
They also have street update in there and they have other C

768
00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:50,159
IP projects which include sidewalks.

769
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:58,610
If you're looking for updates, you might find a lot of them

770
00:37:58,610 --> 00:38:02,159
on the Friday report.

771
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:10,949
This was part of my -- I was going to answer the question

772
00:38:10,949 --> 00:38:13,159
next item.

773
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:16,159
Any other questions?

774
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:20,159
Any other questions on this item?

775
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:22,159
All right. Thank you.

776
00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:32,539
We'll move on to 1E TSC 18-011 which is to receive a report

777
00:38:32,539 --> 00:38:41,420
, hold a discussion regarding a presentation on Open Meet

778
00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:43,159
ings Act.

779
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:44,159
I apologize.

780
00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:48,380
I'm not -- probably one of the few millennials that's not

781
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:49,159
very tech savvy.

782
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,880
I was out of town trying to send my PowerPoint and just

783
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,159
having the worst technical difficulties.

784
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:59,630
I was able to save it on PDF so we're going to work off of

785
00:38:59,630 --> 00:39:00,159
PDF.

786
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:02,159
This is actually a -- I'm sorry.

787
00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:03,159
My name is Victor Florida.

788
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:06,849
I'm one of the deputy city attorneys for the city of Denton

789
00:39:06,849 --> 00:39:07,159
.

790
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:11,900
I came here from a small city in south Texas and there I

791
00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:16,159
did a lot of work on open meetings, open records,

792
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:19,360
and I've actually presented on this topic to Texas

793
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,159
attorneys across the state.

794
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:24,800
And so I was -- Trey asked me if I could share some of what

795
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,239
I know with you guys and just maybe answer some questions

796
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,159
you guys might have.

797
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:36,550
Trey expressed to me that there was a question about social

798
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:40,159
media and how that interacts with the Open Meetings Act.

799
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:46,760
And so I'm going to limit my presentation to just a few

800
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,159
slides.

801
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:51,409
Usually I go through what are my five essentials to

802
00:39:51,409 --> 00:39:55,269
surviving the Texas Open Meetings Act, walking quorum, su

803
00:39:55,269 --> 00:39:56,159
fficiency of detail,

804
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:59,550
recording of certified agendas, last minute changes, avoid

805
00:39:59,550 --> 00:40:03,159
ability and ratification, a lot of legal speak.

806
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:05,380
But I think we're just going to tackle the first one, which

807
00:40:05,380 --> 00:40:09,159
is walking quorum, and that's where the use of social media

808
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:09,159
.

809
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:18,159
I think has the biggest play in the discussion.

810
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:21,489
So I don't mean to insult anybody's intelligence here or

811
00:40:21,489 --> 00:40:24,159
your past experiences on different boards,

812
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:29,219
but scale like one to five, five being really experienced,

813
00:40:29,219 --> 00:40:32,159
one being first-timer on a board,

814
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:37,010
and then there's also hands who has like a level one maybe

815
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:39,159
experience level two, anybody like five.

816
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,159
I've done this. I've heard this speech before.

817
00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:47,159
Okay. So maybe a good mix, right?

818
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:50,150
The biggest concern from the legal perspective that we

819
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:56,480
always have in advising our clients is -- if you would

820
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,159
think of it as a sliding scale.

821
00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:04,800
And obviously right now when you have a quorum of members

822
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:10,159
and they're present and you start to discuss business,

823
00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:12,449
the Open Meetings Act requirements are going to be

824
00:41:12,449 --> 00:41:13,159
triggered.

825
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:17,159
That's the easier one.

826
00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:21,409
But where you get into some difficulty or some ambiguities

827
00:41:21,409 --> 00:41:24,159
or the gray areas in which we work in,

828
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:29,190
it's when you have after meeting discussions and there's

829
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:33,159
this concept of kind of like this daisy chain,

830
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,280
or if you want to think about it, you know, the telephone

831
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,159
game you should play in elementary school

832
00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:41,159
and which one person would talk to the person next to them

833
00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:44,159
and at the end of the trail,

834
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:46,710
it was something completely different than when it started,

835
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:50,159
right? So it's the telephone game.

836
00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:55,159
There have been cases in actual litigation presented on

837
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:59,760
when individuals don't intentionally start that telephone

838
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:00,159
game.

839
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:03,099
When it just starts off, I had coffee with one of my

840
00:42:03,099 --> 00:42:06,039
council members and we're talking about items that's coming

841
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:06,159
up

842
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:11,219
and we didn't intentionally mean for it to kind of grow

843
00:42:11,219 --> 00:42:14,159
into this full discussion.

844
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,900
And with the use of social media, I'll tie social media now

845
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:20,159
, that's really easy to do as well with not just social

846
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:20,159
media

847
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:25,199
like Facebook or Snapchat or Twitter, but just mirror text

848
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:27,159
messaging.

849
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:31,730
And I'll give a case, for example, didn't actually form

850
00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:33,159
into litigation,

851
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:38,190
but it did get some unwanted publicity and attorneys were

852
00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:40,159
involved and whatnot.

853
00:42:40,159 --> 00:42:44,599
And this case was a case where a school district was

854
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:46,159
considering,

855
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:49,960
the trustees were considering the appointment of a new

856
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,159
superintendent.

857
00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:55,460
And there are multiple applicants and one trustee text

858
00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:58,159
message the other trustee,

859
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:02,159
"Hey, I think we should really give this one guy a shot."

860
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:06,719
Well, then unbeknownst to, let's say, trustee A, trustee B

861
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,159
said, "Hey, I just talked to trustee A."

862
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:11,409
And trustee A thinks that this guy would be a great

863
00:43:11,409 --> 00:43:12,159
candidate.

864
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,159
So now they're up to three.

865
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:18,639
Well, then unbeknownst to A and B, trustee number three

866
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:21,159
said, called his buddy,

867
00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:25,300
"Hey, I just talked to trustee B, who talked to trustee A,

868
00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:28,159
and they think this guy would be a great candidate."

869
00:43:28,159 --> 00:43:31,409
So they have this discussion. There is some clamor in the

870
00:43:31,409 --> 00:43:32,159
community.

871
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:36,110
"Hey, I think something's fishy out here. I think they're

872
00:43:36,110 --> 00:43:38,159
about to approve this superintendent

873
00:43:38,159 --> 00:43:41,159
without having a public discussion about it."

874
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:45,159
Sure enough, they come up before the council,

875
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:50,610
and there's a swift motion to approve this candidate as the

876
00:43:50,610 --> 00:43:52,159
new superintendent.

877
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:56,550
And then public information requests are submitted for

878
00:43:56,550 --> 00:44:03,159
phone records and text messages and things of that nature.

879
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:06,159
When it comes down to it, and those cases are reviewed,

880
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:11,219
there is a mental state that's required, a burden that's

881
00:44:11,219 --> 00:44:14,159
required to be established to find a violation.

882
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:17,159
Those violations can be criminal, can be civil.

883
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:19,869
If you violate the Open Meetings Act, there are civil

884
00:44:19,869 --> 00:44:21,159
criminal penalties.

885
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:25,409
But with those, come, like I said, a mental, an intent

886
00:44:25,409 --> 00:44:27,159
behind it.

887
00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:29,610
And so in that case, the court found that there was not an

888
00:44:29,610 --> 00:44:30,159
intent.

889
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:32,159
But do we even want to get that close is always a question.

890
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:38,309
So my guidance to the boards that I've presided over and

891
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:39,159
give legal counsel to,

892
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:42,869
and what I explain to these attorneys that I speak to

893
00:44:42,869 --> 00:44:44,159
across the state is,

894
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:50,219
you always want to caution your board that you can't

895
00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:53,159
control what happens after you have those communications.

896
00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:55,800
And so I'm going to bring it back and tie it into social

897
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:56,159
media,

898
00:44:56,159 --> 00:45:03,179
is that when you have these interactions on social media

899
00:45:03,179 --> 00:45:04,159
and they're,

900
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:09,539
whether they're private, like it's a private group or even

901
00:45:09,539 --> 00:45:11,159
a public group,

902
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:15,059
if there are more than a quorum that are engaged in that

903
00:45:15,059 --> 00:45:16,159
discussion,

904
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:20,159
then that would be a violation of the Open Meetings Act.

905
00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:28,650
Also, if there's less than a quorum, but then for whatever

906
00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:29,159
reason,

907
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:33,760
somebody alleges that it was less than a quorum, it was

908
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,159
only maybe a subgroup,

909
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:39,559
a private group of three board members, and only those

910
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,159
three board members could interact in that dialogue.

911
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:46,599
Well, there's cases that show that, or at least the prop

912
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:50,159
onent would be, or opponent would advocate and say,

913
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:53,949
well, they were trying to circumvent the system by creating

914
00:45:53,949 --> 00:45:57,010
this closed group of just three members to have this

915
00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:58,159
discussion.

916
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:04,519
And so I guess my guidance to this board is use of social

917
00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:10,159
media on your own, personal accounts.

918
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:13,159
You're not precluded from talking about day-to-day things,

919
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:19,449
but especially there should be internal red flags that go

920
00:46:19,449 --> 00:46:20,159
up.

921
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:26,159
Hey, I think this item might come up at a future meeting.

922
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:29,039
We've kind of talked about it. It's on our matrix of things

923
00:46:29,039 --> 00:46:30,159
that come up.

924
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:34,159
Let's just wait and have this discussion in open session.

925
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:38,369
Or if you truly want to have more efficient means of

926
00:46:38,369 --> 00:46:42,070
discussing matters, because it's not often we can all

927
00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:43,159
gather together,

928
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:47,900
then if there's a specific subject that you want to tackle

929
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:53,159
on and create a subcommittee that can meet together,

930
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:55,159
less than a quorum, meet together and discuss those things,

931
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:58,570
and then as a subcommittee, bring that report to the

932
00:46:58,570 --> 00:46:59,159
council,

933
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:04,079
that's also beneficial and would not violate the Open Meet

934
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:05,159
ings Act.

935
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:09,159
But aside from that, my caution to you would just be aware,

936
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:14,159
self-aware of discussing items outside of a public meeting

937
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:15,159
context

938
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:20,909
and items that would come up before the board. That's a lot

939
00:47:20,909 --> 00:47:24,159
. I try to keep it down, but I kind of went on.

940
00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:25,789
Did you say a subcommittee just has to be less than a qu

941
00:47:25,789 --> 00:47:26,159
orum?

942
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:27,159
Yes.

943
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:32,500
And there would be no meeting posting requirements for that

944
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:34,159
subcommittee.

945
00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:38,340
You could go have a discussion over coffee at some place,

946
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:43,159
but make sure you bring that kind of weekly report or

947
00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:44,159
monthly report to the board

948
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:48,159
and say, hey, we talked, and this is what we discussed.

949
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:50,860
So would the subcommittee have to be formed during a

950
00:47:50,860 --> 00:47:53,159
meeting and thus show up at the minutes?

951
00:47:53,159 --> 00:47:56,159
Yes. I'd recommend that, yes.

952
00:47:56,159 --> 00:47:58,190
I wonder if that would be, because I think part of this

953
00:47:58,190 --> 00:48:01,159
discussion came around having time besides in the meeting

954
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:05,159
to be more educated about some of these questions,

955
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:06,849
just because it's difficult to get everything out of the

956
00:48:06,849 --> 00:48:07,159
time.

957
00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:08,159
Sure.

958
00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:10,380
I wonder if that would be for people interested, if it was

959
00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:12,519
less than a quorum, if that could then take the form of a

960
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:16,469
subcommittee of people who want to learn about what already

961
00:48:16,469 --> 00:48:18,159
exists in the city or something like that.

962
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:23,159
I'd be interested.

963
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:26,159
Were there any questions specific to social media?

964
00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:30,389
I guess I just gave a holistic approach and kind of applied

965
00:48:30,389 --> 00:48:35,000
that to social media, but any social media specific

966
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:40,159
questions about interactions with open meetings?

967
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:43,159
I have one question.

968
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:48,349
I think one specific thing came up in a neighborhood group

969
00:48:48,349 --> 00:48:53,309
for the neighborhood I live in, and someone was asking

970
00:48:53,309 --> 00:48:58,159
about the intersection of Old North and University.

971
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:02,519
Something like that is pretty innocuous, but I was about to

972
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:06,519
reply to it and then I got busy and then I noticed that the

973
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:10,900
council member for that area had been, she was interested

974
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:15,159
in that and she posted about it, or she replied to it.

975
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:19,500
Does that, I mean, how does that get, like if we were both

976
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:23,449
to be talking about this project in one thread, I mean,

977
00:49:23,449 --> 00:49:25,159
that seems like that would get a little hairy.

978
00:49:25,159 --> 00:49:32,869
It could, and so it's, I would just use your best judgment

979
00:49:32,869 --> 00:49:35,159
in those cases, but I will make a distinction.

980
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:38,159
It's a quorum of whatever board you serve on.

981
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:43,159
So if you and the council member were both on this thread,

982
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:46,449
and even if the quorum was two, you know, there's three

983
00:49:46,449 --> 00:49:51,159
members, it would be a quorum of those of that board.

984
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:54,960
So just because you're both officials or serving some kind

985
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,630
of capacity for the city, it wouldn't trigger, that in

986
00:49:58,630 --> 00:50:01,159
itself wouldn't trigger a quorum.

987
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:06,300
Just like in any context, if you're invited to a town hall

988
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:10,199
meeting in person to go out and engage the public about

989
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:14,309
things that you review here at this board, you're likewise

990
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:19,159
able to engage on social media threads, right, about doing

991
00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:20,159
stuff like that.

992
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:24,030
But the trick is not to either intentionally or unintention

993
00:50:24,030 --> 00:50:27,710
ally put yourself in the position where now there are three

994
00:50:27,710 --> 00:50:31,110
or four of you, or four of you on this thread, and just

995
00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:33,159
kind of be careful of that.

996
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:36,400
So it's like participation and considered posting, for

997
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,159
example.

998
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:40,360
So it's a weird, now I'm just intrigued by the legal, like

999
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,460
so there's, because there's these, for example, there's

1000
00:50:43,460 --> 00:50:46,119
these really big groups in Denton where people discuss

1001
00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:47,159
public issues.

1002
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:49,940
And so if one happened to be one related to the safety

1003
00:50:49,940 --> 00:50:53,280
commission, a traffic safety commission, would it, what

1004
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,159
constitutes participation in a case like that?

1005
00:50:56,159 --> 00:50:59,489
Is it seeing a post? Is it, I mean, if you're a member of

1006
00:50:59,489 --> 00:51:01,869
the thread, does that count, of the group, does that count,

1007
00:51:01,869 --> 00:51:03,159
even if you didn't look at it?

1008
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:07,159
Or do you have to actually interact with it?

1009
00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:11,599
So I'll give you a more traditional example and then we can

1010
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:15,969
apply it to social media, just to kind of get where I'm

1011
00:51:15,969 --> 00:51:17,159
coming from.

1012
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:25,440
But let's just say, for example, there is a panel, a city

1013
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:32,159
panel, or a town hall event, and they have city officials

1014
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:32,159
at the,

1015
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:36,340
participating in the panel, and another board wants to go

1016
00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:42,159
and attend this kind of public panel in person, and they go

1017
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:42,159
.

1018
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:46,300
And let's say a quorum of them go, and here I'll use, like,

1019
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,159
let's say city council and public utilities board.

1020
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:52,969
Members of the city council are on a public panel and the

1021
00:51:52,969 --> 00:51:56,329
public utility board goes and attends the meeting, a quorum

1022
00:51:56,329 --> 00:51:57,159
of them go and attend the meeting.

1023
00:51:57,159 --> 00:52:03,159
They haven't posted the meeting, but they go.

1024
00:52:03,159 --> 00:52:09,019
That would, and there are items that are being discussed by

1025
00:52:09,019 --> 00:52:12,699
the council members that will impact or be presented before

1026
00:52:12,699 --> 00:52:13,159
PUB,

1027
00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:17,389
it would be my recommendation, my opinion, that PUB would

1028
00:52:17,389 --> 00:52:23,619
be conducting a meeting, or at least the meeting's act

1029
00:52:23,619 --> 00:52:25,159
requirements would have been triggered in that sense.

1030
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:29,250
Now to apply to social media, even if they hadn't discussed

1031
00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:30,159
anything, right?

1032
00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:33,300
Obviously, for sure, even one of them made a point or asked

1033
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:36,900
a question to the council members, that would be even more

1034
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:40,159
so triggering of meeting's requirements.

1035
00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:47,679
Applying to social media, social media's entirely different

1036
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:48,159
.

1037
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,409
And there haven't been, and I can say that with confidence

1038
00:52:50,409 --> 00:52:52,159
because there have been cases like that.

1039
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:55,969
There have not been many cases on dealing with social media

1040
00:52:55,969 --> 00:52:59,159
and just the presence of you being on a group.

1041
00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:06,179
But what it has been, there are cases and claims brought,

1042
00:53:06,179 --> 00:53:11,159
are when those members begin to engage.

1043
00:53:11,159 --> 00:53:18,360
So, and maybe not, maybe if four of the members here were

1044
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,690
on a group and just observed, then it would be my

1045
00:53:22,690 --> 00:53:26,679
impression, my legal opinion that no, the Open Meetings Act

1046
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:28,159
is not triggered.

1047
00:53:28,159 --> 00:53:33,179
But the minute that one of you responds and all four of you

1048
00:53:33,179 --> 00:53:37,860
are watching or following, then it would be my legal

1049
00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:42,159
opinion that that would trigger Open Meetings.

1050
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:44,159
Oh, tricky.

1051
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:48,190
Because the same context and you can see how the analogy

1052
00:53:48,190 --> 00:53:52,210
pairs up with if you were just in public, the minute one

1053
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:56,199
stands up, it just, the state's going to say that just

1054
00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:58,159
doesn't play right.

1055
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:00,159
That's interesting.

1056
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:02,199
It is tricky because I don't know how you actually identify

1057
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:04,739
how people are viewing, whether they're viewing, because

1058
00:54:04,739 --> 00:54:07,179
you, I'm in lots of groups where I don't see any of the

1059
00:54:07,179 --> 00:54:09,449
posts because I never check them or I don't go to them or

1060
00:54:09,449 --> 00:54:10,159
anything.

1061
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:14,739
Right, that's probably way off. I think we all understand

1062
00:54:14,739 --> 00:54:16,159
the intention of the law, which is important, but it's.

1063
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:18,110
But if there are more questions like that, that was an

1064
00:54:18,110 --> 00:54:21,159
interesting question. I kind of enjoyed going through it.

1065
00:54:21,159 --> 00:54:26,570
Yeah, but very definitely, like, there is a post on one of

1066
00:54:26,570 --> 00:54:31,159
those Denton forums and then I see Dan responding.

1067
00:54:31,159 --> 00:54:35,809
Then I see Karen responding, then like it's time to lay low

1068
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:36,159
.

1069
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:37,159
Right?

1070
00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:40,159
Right, that'd be my recommendation, right?

1071
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:43,159
And here it is.

1072
00:54:43,159 --> 00:54:46,869
There's always risk and liabilities. That's what we measure

1073
00:54:46,869 --> 00:54:47,159
.

1074
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:53,280
We identify risks and then there may be some positive that

1075
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,409
comes out of any situation and then there are risks or li

1076
00:54:56,409 --> 00:54:58,159
abilities that come out of it.

1077
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:05,940
It's the, does the benefit substantiate the risk of

1078
00:55:05,940 --> 00:55:09,159
liability? So in that case, the, does the benefit of you

1079
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:14,389
commenting on that thread validate the liability that

1080
00:55:14,389 --> 00:55:17,500
somebody might come and file a claim, pay its violation

1081
00:55:17,500 --> 00:55:22,159
openings, when you might have an opportunity to address

1082
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:26,619
that here in a community meeting or even mention you could

1083
00:55:26,619 --> 00:55:27,159
organize a town hall,

1084
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:30,480
a wave in public or just something of that nature. It's

1085
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,440
just identifying the risk and weighing them against the li

1086
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,159
abilities benefits.

1087
00:55:36,159 --> 00:55:39,099
That was my question is, is there just a best practice to

1088
00:55:39,099 --> 00:55:42,079
encourage people to like submit comments via these open

1089
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:45,159
meetings that we have like this one or a city council or.

1090
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:46,159
Absolutely. Absolutely.

1091
00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:58,159
Absolutely. Absolutely. Of course. I mean, not to squash

1092
00:55:58,159 --> 00:55:58,159
people expressing themselves on online, but there's a

1093
00:55:58,159 --> 00:55:58,159
difference between just complaining in a forum and actually

1094
00:55:58,159 --> 00:55:58,159
coming to a meeting and hoping that something's going to

1095
00:55:58,159 --> 00:55:58,159
change.

1096
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:00,800
So is there a way to just kind of encourage people like

1097
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,159
come to this meeting or.

1098
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:07,150
Yes, I mean, it makes everybody's job easier. It makes it a

1099
00:56:07,150 --> 00:56:11,809
lot more transparent and accountable for all parties and

1100
00:56:11,809 --> 00:56:16,360
they get their issues answered here just as well, if not

1101
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:22,159
maybe better than in one of those internet mediums.

1102
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:26,159
So definitely.

1103
00:56:26,159 --> 00:56:29,159
Anything else.

1104
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:38,130
We just should direct all our questions to you to trade to

1105
00:56:38,130 --> 00:56:39,159
trade.

1106
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:41,159
All right. Thank you.

1107
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:47,860
And next we have item one FTSC 80 dash one zero one two

1108
00:56:47,860 --> 00:56:53,159
staff reports which include the matrix.

1109
00:56:53,159 --> 00:57:06,469
All right. First few items are just there they're happening

1110
00:57:06,469 --> 00:57:06,849
. It's just that we don't necessarily have an immediate

1111
00:57:06,849 --> 00:57:07,159
timeline we have on some of these.

1112
00:57:07,159 --> 00:57:11,300
Number two, number three number four these are all things

1113
00:57:11,300 --> 00:57:15,360
that are lined up to happen the small area plan is underway

1114
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,420
there is what's going to happen with the enforcement work

1115
00:57:19,420 --> 00:57:23,670
currently enforcing the enforcement is high in the UNT area

1116
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:24,159
.

1117
00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:28,500
And then all these other items but I wouldn't like like to

1118
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:32,969
start at number eight and talk about the dumpsters on Hick

1119
00:57:32,969 --> 00:57:34,159
ory Street.

1120
00:57:34,159 --> 00:57:40,280
We did reach out to solid waste and found out that the dump

1121
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,159
sters on Hickory right.

1122
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:47,219
I don't know the address exact address but it's in the

1123
00:57:47,219 --> 00:57:51,329
middle between just west of Carol. There are a couple dump

1124
00:57:51,329 --> 00:57:54,309
sters right in the middle those have been moved according to

1125
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:57,159
solid waste and they've moved it from the sidewalk.

1126
00:57:57,159 --> 00:58:05,110
The one near on the fry street side. They've worked out a

1127
00:58:05,110 --> 00:58:07,329
way to share the dumpster so it's kind of a better

1128
00:58:07,329 --> 00:58:10,050
situation so solid waste is currently working on getting

1129
00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:11,159
rid of all of this.

1130
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:15,230
So the dumpsters on Hickory near Carol were they're

1131
00:58:15,230 --> 00:58:20,019
actually looking at a valet service or something different

1132
00:58:20,019 --> 00:58:24,929
kind of the post putting dumpster. So yes I think there are

1133
00:58:24,929 --> 00:58:28,159
steps in the right direction to address.

1134
00:58:28,159 --> 00:58:31,360
So valet service how does that look and our other

1135
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,269
apartments could would other apartments be good candidates

1136
00:58:35,269 --> 00:58:39,019
for this. That's a good question I'll get back to you with

1137
00:58:39,019 --> 00:58:42,650
information from solid it's I'm the middle guy but yeah I

1138
00:58:42,650 --> 00:58:44,159
'll get back to you.

1139
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:54,159
What is a trash valet service.

1140
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:58,289
These are smaller containers and it's more frequent. So

1141
00:58:58,289 --> 00:59:01,690
that's why it's called and it's a particular time. So they

1142
00:59:01,690 --> 00:59:05,159
're thinking of certain options even in the square.

1143
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:08,500
I'm sorry, the big Benzie roll out to the street, something

1144
00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:11,719
similar, but they're thinking of similar options for the

1145
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:15,159
square in order to get rid of the dumpster in the backside.

1146
00:59:15,159 --> 00:59:19,349
Thinking of valet services, but it's all in the big picture

1147
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:23,489
planning not yet is covering the dumpsters you know having

1148
00:59:23,489 --> 00:59:27,449
like something in front of them is that the purview of the

1149
00:59:27,449 --> 00:59:31,610
individual businesses, or is that is there a city on that's

1150
00:59:31,610 --> 00:59:33,159
a planning requirement

1151
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:36,599
that they have to be covered any new dumpster enclosure has

1152
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:39,969
to have an enclosure new ones do though but the new there's

1153
00:59:39,969 --> 00:59:43,539
a lot that have been grandfathered and probably correct and

1154
00:59:43,539 --> 00:59:46,159
we're trying to come up with a solution.

1155
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:48,619
Yeah, and there's just, you know, there's some places where

1156
00:59:48,619 --> 00:59:50,909
you don't notice them at all, but like those ones that just

1157
00:59:50,909 --> 00:59:52,159
face you and tease campus.

1158
00:59:52,159 --> 00:59:56,510
After Thursday nights they're just covered with trash it

1159
00:59:56,510 --> 01:00:01,159
just makes the whole can't that party campus feel trashy.

1160
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:04,159
Thank you. That's good news.

1161
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:07,590
All right, met Park we talked about the speed cushions I'm

1162
01:00:07,590 --> 01:00:11,300
jumping to number 10 McKinney sidewalk and that was part of

1163
01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:13,159
the list that was coming up.

1164
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:17,230
McKinney sidewalk from Oakland to Austin something that you

1165
01:00:17,230 --> 01:00:20,519
brought up and that is on the list of projects to be

1166
01:00:20,519 --> 01:00:23,159
designed so it will go out to design.

1167
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:28,230
We're currently working on an RFQ engineering wide, which

1168
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:31,159
is going to a work session item.

1169
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:34,590
This month, and then later this month or early next with

1170
01:00:34,590 --> 01:00:38,130
will be selecting firms for design and once we select that

1171
01:00:38,130 --> 01:00:41,659
it's like an umbrella contracts that we don't have to waste

1172
01:00:41,659 --> 01:00:46,500
time, we going through the process but we can pick and

1173
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:49,159
choose consultants fast so that get the

1174
01:00:49,159 --> 01:00:52,789
completed is where it could treat our trees ever in

1175
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:57,000
consideration as like a barrier between the street and the

1176
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,960
sidewalks. They are where we have the right of way but a

1177
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,400
lot of times we don't we have to work somewhere in the

1178
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,159
middle.

1179
01:01:05,159 --> 01:01:09,900
Yeah, we definitely work with our forester urban forester

1180
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:14,699
Heywood, a lot. We try and save wherever we can for example

1181
01:01:14,699 --> 01:01:19,159
on Bell. We had to go around and go in the backside.

1182
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:26,130
We try and save them as much as we can and it's a good

1183
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:35,159
buffer it's a nice place to walk, especially in summertime.

1184
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:36,400
But yeah we try but there are some, it depends on right of

1185
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,739
way restrictions there we definitely had right of way with

1186
01:01:37,739 --> 01:01:38,159
city property.

1187
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:42,650
And then last, last but not least the crossing guard, I did

1188
01:01:42,650 --> 01:01:46,980
talk to our PD police department and discuss this with the

1189
01:01:46,980 --> 01:01:51,480
ISD, they do have a crossing guard at Malone and University

1190
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,159
for Newton Riser.

1191
01:01:53,159 --> 01:02:08,199
So, that's an elementary school, it was part of. I checked

1192
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:08,429
with both actually I got responses from both of them the IS

1193
01:02:08,429 --> 01:02:08,679
D confirmed that yes, the principal confirmed there is a

1194
01:02:08,679 --> 01:02:08,909
crossing guard, and they also specify the time I can pull

1195
01:02:08,909 --> 01:02:10,159
it out but I have a matrix that shows crossing

1196
01:02:10,159 --> 01:02:13,159
guards different location.

1197
01:02:13,159 --> 01:02:18,159
And PD confirmed that too. So yes, we do have.

1198
01:02:18,159 --> 01:02:32,159
Okay, anybody want to add anything to the matrix.

1199
01:02:32,159 --> 01:02:34,159
Whoa.

1200
01:02:34,159 --> 01:02:36,159
Okay.

1201
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:40,159
Well I actually do have a question.

1202
01:02:40,159 --> 01:02:44,539
Now I have a question about about sidewalks, and I know

1203
01:02:44,539 --> 01:02:49,039
there were a couple spots when I when I was on planning and

1204
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:53,929
zoning, where we made the decision that sidewalks needed to

1205
01:02:53,929 --> 01:02:55,159
go there.

1206
01:02:55,159 --> 01:02:57,710
You know there have been different times when somebody had

1207
01:02:57,710 --> 01:03:00,469
asked you know for a variance not to put in a sidewalk. But

1208
01:03:00,469 --> 01:03:05,380
, and some of those places still don't have sidewalks and

1209
01:03:05,380 --> 01:03:06,159
there's.

1210
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:11,159
You know what I'm talking about.

1211
01:03:11,159 --> 01:03:17,159
But also, so is there a way that we can go back and.

1212
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:21,030
Where's is, are, is there, are there bread crumbs to for to

1213
01:03:21,030 --> 01:03:24,530
be able to go back to some of these developments that were

1214
01:03:24,530 --> 01:03:28,110
supposed to put in sidewalks but then, you know, things

1215
01:03:28,110 --> 01:03:32,019
change personnel changes institutional memory leaves, and

1216
01:03:32,019 --> 01:03:35,159
the sidewalks are not there.

1217
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:39,599
Is there any easy way to get in and find where they should

1218
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:40,159
be.

1219
01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:45,159
And also I know that at Calhoun, and on Eagan Street, there

1220
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:49,550
was supposed to be a sidewalk that went in on the south

1221
01:03:49,550 --> 01:03:54,460
side of Eagan, and it goes right by the Calhoun field, and

1222
01:03:54,460 --> 01:03:59,159
there is no sidewalk there on either side of the road.

1223
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:03,719
And during some of the DISD reconstruction, you know years

1224
01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:08,079
ago, there were there was supposed to be some sidewalk put

1225
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:12,050
in along that stretch along the field, and it hasn't

1226
01:04:12,050 --> 01:04:13,159
happened.

1227
01:04:13,159 --> 01:04:16,159
But like I said I understand how things.

1228
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:19,800
We lose some of things as we lose personnel and new people

1229
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,489
come in, but is are there breadcrumbs to follow. If you

1230
01:04:23,489 --> 01:04:26,159
tell me how to follow them I'll follow them.

1231
01:04:26,159 --> 01:04:32,679
Once, once it once once it's approved it's approved so what

1232
01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:35,159
happened this tip.

1233
01:04:35,159 --> 01:04:38,590
All the new current standards require sidewalk no matter

1234
01:04:38,590 --> 01:04:39,159
what.

1235
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:42,159
So, that's a good thing.

1236
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:47,369
Previously was not the case it was some of the developers

1237
01:04:47,369 --> 01:04:52,159
were able to convince folks to not put in sidewalks.

1238
01:04:52,159 --> 01:04:56,099
Once the developer leaves and if there is no HOA, which is

1239
01:04:56,099 --> 01:04:59,630
which is what previously used to be there used to be a

1240
01:04:59,630 --> 01:05:03,159
single entity that everyone was entitled to.

1241
01:05:03,159 --> 01:05:07,550
Now there is most of the new subdivisions previously that

1242
01:05:07,550 --> 01:05:11,969
it wasn't the case. So if you don't have one entity that

1243
01:05:11,969 --> 01:05:16,269
deals with it is not willing to come forward and do certain

1244
01:05:16,269 --> 01:05:20,860
improvement then it becomes a really tough challenging for

1245
01:05:20,860 --> 01:05:23,369
every parcel that the city has to approach and get that

1246
01:05:23,369 --> 01:05:24,159
thing lined up.

1247
01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:28,019
But if you have an HOA for example I'm working with Wheeler

1248
01:05:28,019 --> 01:05:31,550
Ridge and their that HOA is proactive they want to put

1249
01:05:31,550 --> 01:05:35,639
stuff on their own. Like we put in new striping if the city

1250
01:05:35,639 --> 01:05:39,210
agrees if you agree so if we give them the go ahead, they

1251
01:05:39,210 --> 01:05:44,159
're willing to pay the money so that that's how forward

1252
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:48,159
thinking HOA can become and work for the community so.

1253
01:05:48,159 --> 01:05:53,880
Right. There's been some redevelopment projects over over

1254
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,769
the years. And the developer then was supposed to put in

1255
01:05:57,769 --> 01:06:01,269
sidewalks and and the only reason I knew about them because

1256
01:06:01,269 --> 01:06:04,159
of being on planning and zoning at that time.

1257
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:08,269
And they came in to ask for a variance and the variance was

1258
01:06:08,269 --> 01:06:09,159
denied.

1259
01:06:09,159 --> 01:06:15,159
There's no sidewalk there.

1260
01:06:15,159 --> 01:06:19,159
Good question.

1261
01:06:19,159 --> 01:06:27,159
Yes.

1262
01:06:27,159 --> 01:06:39,159
Okay.

1263
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:50,159
She can find that.

1264
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:53,159
Okay. So contact Jennifer.

1265
01:06:53,159 --> 01:06:55,159
Yep. Okay.

1266
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:57,159
Okay.

1267
01:06:57,159 --> 01:07:00,159
All right. Thank you.

1268
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:04,909
Okay, I do have one small matrix I'm sorry gave me too much

1269
01:07:04,909 --> 01:07:09,519
time to think on Hickory, there's several spots and I'm

1270
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:13,159
talking about just to the east of Carol.

1271
01:07:13,159 --> 01:07:19,059
There's several spots where we have sidewalks, where there

1272
01:07:19,059 --> 01:07:24,960
's just curbs and there's no ramps, which obviously and this

1273
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:30,599
is pretty close to the square, is that something simple we

1274
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:34,159
can look at to just adding ramps.

1275
01:07:34,159 --> 01:07:37,500
If you if you're on the circuit on the north side of this

1276
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:41,219
of Hickory, like kind of where the little breakfast places

1277
01:07:41,219 --> 01:07:44,539
you know I'm talking about, and the sushi places the

1278
01:07:44,539 --> 01:07:46,159
science still there.

1279
01:07:46,159 --> 01:07:48,539
The right there like there's several spots there's a couple

1280
01:07:48,539 --> 01:07:50,739
spots right there where there's curbs and so it'd be inac

1281
01:07:50,739 --> 01:07:53,050
cessible to a wheelchair is that something we could look at

1282
01:07:53,050 --> 01:07:54,159
it just needs a ramp.

1283
01:07:54,159 --> 01:07:58,059
Basically, I don't know if you have to redo things to do

1284
01:07:58,059 --> 01:08:00,159
that or if you're able to just.

1285
01:08:00,159 --> 01:08:05,449
Yes, we can absolutely look at, and I'll have to look but

1286
01:08:05,449 --> 01:08:10,159
there are sometimes funds just for ADA updates.

1287
01:08:10,159 --> 01:08:15,110
So, these are things that can be quickly turned around and

1288
01:08:15,110 --> 01:08:20,090
the real challenge challenging part is, if we go there and

1289
01:08:20,090 --> 01:08:24,880
if we see that the current sidewalk that's connecting and

1290
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,619
coming to that particular driveway or any side street is

1291
01:08:29,619 --> 01:08:31,159
not in compliance,

1292
01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:34,319
and it that triggers and most of the times that's the case

1293
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,340
is you look at the sidewalk, it does not have the right

1294
01:08:37,340 --> 01:08:40,310
cross slope, and then everything you look at either

1295
01:08:40,310 --> 01:08:43,630
direction now you're talking about a big project as opposed

1296
01:08:43,630 --> 01:08:46,159
to just putting in those ramps.

1297
01:08:46,159 --> 01:08:55,109
So that's that's the dilemma that the city always is in is

1298
01:08:55,109 --> 01:09:02,729
if you put something in connecting to it has to be

1299
01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:05,159
compliant.

1300
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:08,159
Okay, anything else.

1301
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:16,720
With that, it is 642 and we can adjourn. Thank you

1302
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:18,159
everybody. Thank you.