It is now 4 p.m. We are in the City Council work session
room.
All right
Looking around do we definitely have a core a quorum for
today's meeting?
So we are all set to go. What I'd like to do is go ahead
and convene into a work session.
Do we have a motion to convene into a work session?
Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a
second for Mr. Cole. All right, we are now in the
part of our agenda. That's a work session.
Work session is clarification of agenda items listed on the
regular
meeting portion of the agenda and to discuss issues of not
briefed in the written backup materials.
And then following the completion of the work session the Z
oning Board of Adjustment will convene into a regular
meeting to consider
the items. All right, are there is there any clarification
relating to today's
agenda items and we have
on it
two different matters one is
consider and appoint members of the Zoning Board of Adjust
ment for the chair and the vice chair position and then the
second is ZBA
17-009 which is consider approval of the 2018 Zoning Board
of
Adjustment calendar. So we have three matters and then we
have a public hearing.
Do any of the commissioners wish to discuss any of those
items?
Chair, if I can address that. You can't address that
because I'm not sure why either.
That is that's just an opportunity for
the board to provide any
concluding items any items that they would like to see at a
future meeting.
So it's just an opportunity to discuss any items again that
the board would like to see at a future.
It will be it that's a standing item.
I don't really remember it being on the last
notice, but maybe it was and we just ignored it. I don't
know. So
it's just a standing item again. It gives us the legal
item away to
receive input and provide some request. As far as the work
session if there's no item on the work session or
questions that we would like to discuss during the work
session we can go ahead and straight into the regular
meeting.
Okay, anybody else any other comments? Thank you, Mr. Higg
ins.
Okay, do I hear a motion to move to to close the work
session?
Okay.
All right, do we have a second?
We have a second all in favor?
I'm not sure whether we have to close or open it, but but I
'm doing it I did it anyway.
So all right, so we're gonna convene now at
4 into the regular meeting and
let's go ahead and start with the Pledge of Allegiance if
everyone would stand. Take off any hats if you have it and
and our flag is right over here. Ready? Pledge allegiance
to the flag of the United States of America and to the
Republic for which it stands, one nation under God and ind
ivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Okay, let's go ahead do the Texas flag honor the Texas flag
.
Okay.
All right, our first agenda item is ZBA 17-007.
Consider approval of the Zoning Board of Adjustment meeting
minutes and
that's an attachment under our packet and those are for the
September 25th
2017 meeting. Has everyone had the opportunity to review
those minutes?
Do I have a motion to approve them?
I have a motion for Mr. Higgins and a second from Mr. House
. Any discussion?
Hearing no discussion all in favor?
Aye.
Motion carries. Okay, let's go to item number three.
Consider for individual
considerations ZBA 17-008.
Consider and appoint members for the Zoning Board of Adjust
ment Chair and Vice Chair positions. Okay.
Okay, so at this point we can take nominations
and then we can kind of go from there and take some
nominations and go from there. So let's do one at a time.
Let's go ahead and do the
chair position first.
Nominating Amber Brighill.
Is there a second?
Nomination of Amber Brighill from Mr. Higgins and a second
from Mr. House. Okay, any discussion?
Oh, we could I'm sorry. Yeah.
I will be happy to serve at the liberty of the group
whatever y'all want to do. It's totally fine with me.
Or not.
I would be honored to serve as the chair, but I also if you
're you're happy doing it, I would also nominate you.
But I also then I don't know do we arm wrestle for this? I
have no idea.
A mud bath or something?
It's whatever.
Absolutely. Well, I didn't hear anyone else forthcoming at
the time.
I don't actually know how the process is. I kind of was at
my first day and
the first committee meeting I was at somebody nominated me
and I was like, okay, I guess I'll do that.
But it's it's totally open. It's no different than anything
else. It's good to probably have some rotation around as
well.
So it's whatever y'all decide. It doesn't make any
difference to me either way.
So, thank you. I would be honored to serve as chair. I'm
also gonna nominate
Mr. Sacco for the same commission.
So I don't there you go. All right. I guess do we
So I guess we need to think about this because I'm not sure
what the structure is.
Do we make our campaign speeches now?
Oh, hey, you're the one.
I was gonna let this continue.
See how it went.
So there really are no strict rules governing nominations
approval, but in this case,
I would suggest just taking a chair
like you're doing chair and then vice chair.
If there's multiple nominations, then there would be a vote
.
And we can just do that by a show of hands.
Or there could be talk of whether if these are the only two
nominations which wants to go for chair or vice chair vice
versa.
That's also a discussion that you guys could have as well.
Well, Amber, are you formally saying
if nominated I will not run if elected I will not serve is
that what you're saying?
I'm saying I'm gonna withdraw you want to decline. No, it's
no I'd be sincerely I would be honored.
I also want to pay deference to our chair who's in the
current position and if he's interested,
I want to at least you know, also I really like when people
vote on things. So
So thank you for your nomination.
Yeah, I had no objection to mr. Sarko just nothing was
forthcoming and I thought ever would be good still do.
Okay.
Well, let me let me switch the discussion a little bit here
so that we're not spending a whole lot of time on it.
I'm happy to serve. I understand Amber's happy to serve.
Are there any other folks that want to be considered for
the chair or vice chair position?
How about if we did that way? I would go ahead.
I'd be happy to serve as vice chair, but I'd be happy to
give it up as well. Okay, so we essentially have three
folks that are interested in doing it. So in that regard
and in deference to having three competent folks,
I'm gonna withdraw
as
being the chair so that
we it doesn't hurt to fluctuate in and rotate in I am happy
to withdraw as
from being the chair and defer and allow y'all there to arm
wrestle.
I've enjoyed doing it. I think it's been a lot of fun as
well as educational to me, but I think like in any
structured
group whether it's school board or City Council, it's it's
good to
move leadership around and allow folks to have
opportunities
and so it doesn't really bother me one bit to do that and
since we've got two qualified
competent folks, I am happy to defer. That's very gracious.
So as a history suggests the co-CEOs never work. No.
So what I'd like to do then is we have a
nomination and a second for chair for Amber Brighill.
I'd like to
Is there any further discussion on that position chair?
Okay hearing no further discussion.
Well, I'm not putting my name to I'm not gonna arm wrestle
her for chair. Okay
What I'd like to do then is go ahead and have a vote on the
chair all in favor of Amber Brighill for
chair
For this next coming year say aye
Okay, let's go to vice-chair do we have we've got Marshall
and other nominations are fine
And are there any is there anyone else that would like to
be vice-chair?
Obviously the purpose of vice-chair is step in when the
chair is not available
And that's Marshall's to ride
Is there a second second and we got a second for mr. Cole
any discussion
Hearing no discussion all in favor
All right, so
Does she take over now?
Yes, okay. There we go. See that was nice
I just like I'd like to move my name tag though. Is that
okay? Mr. Sacco?
I'm just saying we have so many politicians who want to be
Permanent in the office you are showing at a local level a
model for them
Thank you appreciate that
I
Thoroughly enjoyed learning this ever-changing job
There's some other people who could learn from
No
Well, I like creating my own yes
Look why don't we go off the record for two minutes?
Can we do that or not?
We take a yeah. Yeah, let's take a quick two minute break
all in favor. All right
Okay, thank you and welcome back to today's zoning board of
adjustments meeting the date is
Monday October 30th time is 416
We had a little shuffling around but we're back in business
and the next item for consideration is
ZBA 17 - oh nine and consider approval for the ZBA calendar
. Was there any
Discussion about this. Do we is this a thing that we vote
on just to approve the calendar? Yes, ma'am
I'm sure we have put together a calendar and it's just
really the first. I'm sorry the last Monday of each month
Given maybe some exceptions to a holiday
We try to plan it out so that we can publish these dates to
the to to the public and therefore we do need it to be
recognized and approved by the board
I move approval got a
First from mr. Sacco any second and the second from mr.
Baker
Hey, mr. Baker and is there any discussion on this at all?
I just let the public know that you know, they
Only thing looks like they skirt around was Christmas. Yeah
break next time which is good to know anyway
Any other discussion on this item
Let's take about all in favor
Any opposed
motion passes
And the next item is a public hearing
At this point, I'm going to open the public hearing for ZBA
17 - 0 to a
The time is 417 and this item is to hold a public hearing
and consider approval of a variance
From the Denton Development Code section 35 dot 5 dot 2 dot
3 general regulations
relating to the minimum front and side yard setbacks on a
proper on approximately
0.18 acre the variance requested is for the construction of
a solar panel support structure
which would encroach into the minimum 20 foot sorry 20 foot
front yard setback and
minimum six foot side yard setback
The subject property is generally located on the north side
of hummingbird lane near Cardinal Drive. So and with that
We have Julie go ahead Julie Europe
I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the city of Denton and
I'm presenting ZBA 17 - to you this evening
The request before you is to hold a public hearing and
consider approval of a variance from DDC section 35 dot 5
dot 2 dot 3
For the construction of a solar panel support structure
Which would encroach into the minimum 20 foot front yard
setback and minimum six foot side yard setback
The subject property is located on the north side of
hummingbird
Between mockingbird and Cardinal just to orient you here's
McKinney right here and then the loop is off to the off to
the side
The subject property is
Governed by an nr4 zoning district the development on the
site conforms to nr4
Zoning district both in use and in building envelope
It requires a minimum 20 foot front yard setback and a
minimum six foot side yard setback
The applicant provided a copy of their survey just to allow
it to for us to see what's on the side and the dimensions
for
the development
So this is an existing single-family home. It does have a
front entry garage and an associated driveway
the
House is set back
26.2 feet from the front property line, which is here the
curb and gutter here
So the front property line is here and seven point three
feet from the side property line in this location
The applicant is proposing to construct a solar panel
support structure over the existing driveway
it would be attached to the house and extend forward 25
feet from the existing structure and
Approximately seven feet to the side. So as you can see
these are the limits of that proposed structure
It would it would essentially go over the the existing
driveway
As proposed it would encroach
18.8 feet into the front yard and approximately six feet
into the side yard
The applicant stated in their narrative that that the
reason for putting this structure in this location
Is that this this property has an extensive tree canopy and
this location is
Is the only place that they could maximize the
effectiveness of those solar panels
Section 35.5.6.2.2.B of the Denton Development Code
outlines the
the requirements for a variance to be granted from the
Board of Adjustment from the minimum setbacks
This is where a literal enforcement of the regulations
would result in an unnecessary
hardship and where the variance is necessary to develop a
specific parcel of land because of
Something unique to this size whether the shape the size of
the topography that would make it different from other parc
els
So there's also the code also outlines the criteria for
approval
So first well a variance shall be granted only upon finding
that first and I've paraphrased their requirements here.
They're fully
Outlined in your backup, but the special circumstances or
conditions apply to the parcel for which the variance is
sought
They have to be peculiar to that parcel and they don't
generally apply to other parcels in the same district or
neighborhood
So when staff looked at this criteria for approval in
relationship to the request first
We looked at the zoning and the adjacent character and
development
And this is an established neighborhood with a with a
traditional suburban character
The lot as well as the surrounding lots conform to that in
our four zoning district
The lots size and shape are similar to surrounding lots
Yes, there is a lot of tree canopy on the site, but that's
not unique to this to this property
residential properties often have have tree canopy of
shading their yards and
That while solar panels can be a valuable improvement of
the inability to install them in an in an optimal location
to maximize their usefulness
Doesn't deprive the homeowner of using their home
They can still live in it it still is is in a single-family
home that can that can be used as their dwelling
Second that the variance would not be detrimental to the
public welfare or injurious to other properties or
improvements in the area
The intent of minimum yard setbacks both front and side are
to create a visually uniform
neighborhood with clearly defined yard areas
The approval of the variance would does that would disrupt
the uniformity the visual uniformity of the neighborhood
and create potentially create impacts
Not only on the street, but for adjacent properties
Third the variance would be necessary for the reasonable
use of the parcel and that it would be the minimum variance
that would accomplish this purpose
This variance isn't necessary in order for them to to
occupy their home as a single-family dwelling and so
it's not necessary for the reasonable use of their property
as a single-family residence and
Then finally the literal enforcement and strict application
of the provisions would result in an unnecessary hardship
the proposing correct encroachment is not required in order
to occupy the property and
Therefore the enforcement of the setbacks does not pose an
unnecessary hardship
And we'll take a look at some pictures
Google has has a wider view and takes better pictures than
I do so I've cribbed these pictures from Google
But this is this is hummingbird. It's looking toward
Cardinal so toward the loop and as you can see the the the
Setbacks create that sort of visual corridor where you've
got the street then you have the yard area and then you
have the homes
This is the subject property and
Then here is the street near the subject property
so as you can see across from the subject property there is
in fact a shade structure a a
Carport that does extend from their home and extends almost
to the street
We've done some research on this and and at this time
I can't find a permit that was that was issued for this but
there is there is a
Carport similar to what they're proposing in their
neighborhood
However, then when we zoom out we look back at the aerial
that we looked at at the beginning of the presentation
If you look you can see a long hummingbird
You can see all the driveways
Along the adjacent properties. So this isn't a consistent
development pattern within that within the area
It's not something that all residents have in this area
public notification was sent out
There's some variation in in the colors of reds. I don't
know if you can see that on the screen
There was one in favor and then several in opposition
The darker red were there was a notification error on the
first so this on this
Project so there was a notification sent out for the
September meeting. Those were notices that I received for
that meeting
I went ahead and included them
But I wanted to let you know that those were not for this
request
the ones in the lighter the lighter red were sent when the
Prop the the request was renoticed for this meeting
If I may and I seem to remember in the packet there were
two note two letters from neighbors in
support of this request
Is is that why is that other neighbor not in? I obviously
missed that on my map. Yeah, there were
There were two if you can tell me what that address was and
I can see if I can yes
And in fact, I actually drove out to the applicant's
property today because I really want to get a better look
at this
And she had informed me and she can speak to this too
And she has her opportunity to speak that it was her
neighbor on the side yard. So that property there, okay
You can correct me if I'm wrong. Miss Barnhill when you get
up here, but
That one should also be marked as green and that is I think
also the side yard
Yes, that would be approaching on so I think that's
important to note that that green should be indicated on.
Thank you
I I missed that I apologize. Thank you
Sorry, you'll get an opportunity to speak. Don't worry hold
that thought
This
According to her letter she has but I may have I have may
have messed up this slide
Number
Okay, that is that is yes, so I okay I've missed you I
apologize I can so
Keep that in mind that that those are included in your
backup. However, I didn't reflect them on on this map
So are you saying that two folks approved and then let's
just make sure we got this right the opposition how many
folks opposed it?
Within the 200 foot buffer. Yes, a portion of this lot a
portion of this lot this lot and then this lot so
for okay
In is it open up for discuss chair recognizes mr. Sacco
I forgot my question. I'm kidding. It's not time for
discussion yet
But if you have questions for staff, this would be the time
Well, my my question is the general character of the
neighborhood
if
that
particular
person across the street
Didn't get theirs permitted, which is what it sounds like
would the city have allowed
A carport in that particular not without a variance. Okay
in in
You just I believe I read in the packet that you did
research that and that particular person across the street
didn't have a variance
Not one that I can find. Okay
Thank you
So based upon the criteria for approval
Outlined in the didn't development code staff recommends
denial of the variance to request into
The variance to encroach into the front and side yard set
backs and I'll stand for any questions
Any questions for staff
Mr. House. I have a question. What is
There's the current city ordinance regarding
Structures in the front set back of the property our car
ports allowed
I'm not certain or is it just the fact that it's going to
encroach
The setbacks at all a carport would be allowed sub chapter
12 if the didn't development code outlines the requirements
for accessory structures
If the carport is proposed to be attached to the property,
so it actually become a part of the primary structure
if it were not
Attached to the subject property. It would not be permitted
in the front yard. It would have to be either and it would
have to be in
the rear
But because it is proposed to be attached it could it could
go in the front yard provided it did not
Encroach into that front yard setback
Due to the size and shape of the structure that they would
like to construct
That's why they're here today in order to in order to seek
a variance for those setbacks
To construct the the structure. I would also like to point
out
that
In in reviewing this we also talked with building
inspections because they'll be the ones
If approved they would be the ones
processing and
And reviewing the permit and the International Residential
Code
would prohibit the construction of the
the structure within two feet of the property line, so
so
Regardless of what's approved today the the building permit
could only be for
For a structure that was a minimum of two feet away from
either the front or side property lines
Mr. Sarrat, I have two questions one
The is car this simple question. I probably know the answer
is a carport
Allowed on if there's working garage already
Yes, a carport would be allowed provided that it met the
requirements in subchapter 12 of the Denton development
code that it would be
In the rear of the property that it would not
Cause the property to exceed lot coverage that it would not
be in any setbacks or in any easements
It would also need to be architecturally compatible with
the primary structure or screen from view
Of adjacent property owners and the public right-of-way the
other question is I?
Think I know the answer this too. Do we have any site
design criteria for?
There's a fancy term for it, but for solar collectors. I
know that you can have some that actually look like
Shakes I mean that look like you know
What's the word for it shingles shingles? Thank you?
shingles is for composition
And I know they're more expensive
So do we have any site design for like in this case where
you want to make it architecturally compatible at this time
we don't
if they were proposing a
solar panel structure that
That was visible from the public right-of-way and that
Was in the rear yard not attached to the property, but in
the back or on their roof
They could they could install those solar panels those
wouldn't necessarily have to be architecturally compatible
But the structure on which they sit would have to be
Did that did that answer your question it did it might be
something for
great idea to
Take up to have site design standards because as we were
talking as the prices go down more and more people want to
do this
including me
So so I want to know what would look good
Mr.. Socko I have a question, so how many feet?
In the right-of-way on the front and on the side are they
actually encroaching
They wouldn't be
Per their proposal they would not be encroaching in the
right-of-way you can see right here
This is their property line and their house is set back
twenty six point. I'm sorry
I've let me apologize. I meant the setbacks not the right-
of-way um if my math is correct
Approximately eighteen point eight feet because they are
they their house is set back
More than the minimum so it's actually set back twenty six
over twenty six feet
Whereas the minimum the minimum is is twenty feet
So so the actual encroachments eighteen point eight
Okay
So that leads me to my follow-up
I'm gonna follow up with because I've got one specific
question and one general question my specific question is I
guess how far away from the
Curb with this structure be and how far away from the curb
is the structure across the street I?
Don't know the one across the street. I'm not I'm not aware
of that
For this one
I don't have a dimension in looking at
Let's see if I can
Doesn't get closed in looking at what they're proposing and
then and then
overlaying that with their survey
The the proposed structure would extend forward 25 feet
from their prop from their home
It does look like they're per their survey
Their house is set back
26.5 feet from their property line. This is probably the
right-of-way
Parkway sidewalk which is typically it part of the public
right-of-way so
By this it looks like this is the curb. I just don't know
how far away that okay, so it would take up it will go
almost
I'm sorry, so it's
26.5 feet is their house set back this would be a 25 foot
structure so this would go
But I'll probably be a foot and a half from okay from there
from their end of their property line
But then there's but then there's some right-of-way several
feet of curb and utilities underneath okay
And my more general question is how does this help us
further our goal?
towards
Being a greener city as we you know I've always talked
about the dent in 2030 plan
We worked really hard on that you guys so
How how would a request for this a citizen who wants to put
solar panels on their home?
improve their the
value of their home
They're hoping to improve the the value of their
neighborhood and the value of our community and of the
world like how?
Can can you talk to me about kind of green energy and solar
panels and how the 2030 plan could fit into this?
so I'll take I'll take a stab at that of course the
Creating a sustainable you know community sustainable house
is something that didn't plan 2030 is for and certainly
this would help in that cause
of our see solar panels wind devices any other
sustainability type
Functions that would you know help in that effort the city
would welcome you know and actually D
Meade and municipal electric has some programs in which the
If there were introductions of such devices they would be
entered into some programs, so
That's something that we want to incentivize certainly
having solar panel is something that we would like to see
more and more as well
However, just this particular case alone
The location that solar panel is what we're looking at not
necessarily the introduction of solar panel is really what
's what structure is being constructed
right
I've got some counterpoints to that, but I know we're not
that the discussion yet, so I'm gonna hold that thought
sorry mr.
Strath I have one last question
Not considering the tree canopy if they were put solar
collectors on the existing roof of the house what are the
current
standards rules for that
Even if it's three feet away from the neighbors
They would just have to acquire just a permit
So setback doesn't count for that
No said that when that's what I was wondering about
And I understand the conditions for this house. I was just
wondering
Mr.. House, I'm sorry just one more quick question. We keep
referring to the carport across the street
I'm just wondering if that's an unpermitted structure is
that being looked into by the code enforcement department
Or is that I did a little research on that there was a case
open several years ago
The person who reviewed that is no longer with the city and
the records are somewhat
Thin so I'm not quite sure what?
What happened other than in his research?
He determined that the that the
Carport was built between 2005 and 2007
He did not give any indication that he found a permit. I
didn't find one so I'm not sure if what one may have been
Acquired and I just didn't I wasn't able to find it
Thank you
Any other questions for staff
Julia question just to make sure that I understand this
correctly the
Variance is being requested for the for the setbacks raise.
It's not a variance to
Construct a certain structure. No sir. It's just for the
setbacks
Mr. Saka and on that same token, and this is kind of where
my line of thought is
It it speak really because they want to build a carport
there
Correct and the carport will have there's two issues one is
putting a solar structure
which
no problem, but the bigger issue is a non-con a a
Variance for putting the actual structure itself the car
port. Yes, sir
So if we granted the variance for the carport and they
decided or elected not to put the solar structure
Could that occur? Yes, okay
Just to follow up on that granting this variance to the set
backs
Doesn't necessarily restrict what kind of structure could
go on
Past this it's just saying that they can build into the
side the front yard setback
And so after this variance is granted if it is granted
There's really no
Conditions that we can place after they build whatever they
build could that be a condition we put in the motion though
But no because the variance is just to the encroachment
Sorry, let me I'm sorry let me understand so if if
If someone were to make a motion to approve could that
person say you know we approve with the following
conditions that this only
be a solar panel support structure and not an
Additional bedroom that you're adding yeah the the variance
pertains to the real estate
Rights that go with the property because again. This would
be something that would go on
Well past this owner or future owners and go on for
generations
and so the only
Condition that I would be comfortable recommending or
Supporting would be something that would be willing to like
to the footprint of whatever that structure is
Because I think it's going to be separated from
the main
Residents it would be attached to the main residence
So a condition that could be placed is that it would be to
the footprint of whatever it's proposed
So it wouldn't connect later
Because what you're doing is you're just saying they can
build so many feet in front of whatever the property line
is
We'll cross that when we get there. Thank you any other
questions for staff
Okay, thank you. Thank you
Okay, I have to do a thing here now we're talking to the
people now is that the next thing that we do
Yes, okay, does the applicant does?
How much time do I know we get we want to hear from the
applicant how much time does the applicant get?
I think they get as much time as they want. Okay, so the
applicant here. All right, would you like to come forward,
please?
So if you could step towards the microphone
Sure
Okay, if you are appearing before this board as provided
under chapter 602
0025 of the Texas government code all testimony is sworn.
So therefore could you please identify yourself for the
record? Yes
Hi, I'm Sharon barnhill and
Your address, please 33 29 hummingbird lane here in Denton.
Thank you. Can you raise your right hand?
Under penalty of perjury
Do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information
you provide or any statement you make before this board is
complete?
True and correct to the best or best of your knowledge and
ability. Yes, I do. Okay, go ahead
Okay. Well, I guess first of all, I wanted to make sure yes
that you knew
I do have letters from the neighbor right next to me and
the neighbor across the street that has the carport
I will tell you that when we moved in in 2003 most of that
carport was already standing
I think that's why she can't find
Anything about it since we've lived there
He has traded a truck for a boat and had to rebuild one end
of it
And then he got rid of the boat and he had to read we've
watched that happen several times knowing that we can't
have a carport
Anyway, so last October the some people at the end of the
street
I think this is in my packing material have a lovely new
carport
So I called the city so excited to see if they had gotten a
building permit and they had
So we contacted
Alternatex we started working towards trying to figure out
how to put our solar panels in our yard that is covered
with trees
I can't grow anything as far as vegetables because I have
so much shade in my yard
anyway, so then I
When we after we got that all going and I had a contractor
that was going to do the structure for us
And he came down to get a building permit and found out
that that was not going to happen
So we later found out I guess the one at the end of the
street was issued in error
And I don't know what that means
But we think it's a lovely cardboard. I have some pictures
here of it if you'd like to see it
I
Mean, I don't know what protocol is can I hand the pictures
around or what do I do? Sure?
Your pictures are bigger than my pictures so
The first two pictures are
What I look out my kitchen window at is the carport across
the street. They are lovely neighbors
I will say they have had a television a huge big television
in their yard for two weeks
And I did call both code enforcement and solid waste and it
's still there
Then there's some pictures. I think of our house. There are
some pictures of
The carport down the street that is new that got the
building permit in error because I think you can see it's a
lovely
carport
I'm a little interested to hear to see that one of the
objections to our
Structure was the house next door to us. There are some
pictures of some of the homes on Hummingbird Lane
we have a lot of rental property the lady next door who
owns a house who I've met once in 13 years and
objected
The tenants that are in there right now don't mow their
yard their trash bin sits on the curb all week long
You can see there are several properties on my street. We
are not going to do anything to Hummingbird Lane
That is going to diminish the beauty of Hummingbird Lane or
the Denton Development Code
I think we are we want to be able to stay in our home
through retirement. We will be on fixed income and
Having the solar panels will be a big
Benefit for us. I will also say the reason we cannot do the
roof for one thing
The solar panels will withstand a bigger hail storm than
our roof will so if we have roof damage
We pay someone to remove solar panels to fix our roof and
then put the solar panels back up
Plus we have a mother-in-law suite that was added before we
lived there we have
Half of the two car garage is actually under air. It is a
dining room and a laundry room
So we have a larger under air square footage than most of
the homes in our neighborhood
And so we just don't have enough roof in the Sun to put
solar panels on our roof
I mean trust me we have looked at this my husband is an
engineer. We have looked at this trust me and
We have been advised by both the solar panel
Fellas and my contractor and we think this is going to be
something that will look good on our house
We're not certainly not gonna put something up that we
would be embarrassed by or that our neighbors would be
embarrassed by a little surprised about the
Objections on the street like I say I encourage you to
drive down hummingbird lane. I bet you can pick my house
out
What else do I need to tell you all
Like I say mainly I wanted to share some pictures with you
I do have the fellas from the solar panel company here
And I have also our contractor that could answer the
questions about the structure
But it sounds like maybe we're just doing setbacks or maybe
the structure questions or not
For this panel, I don't know
So
Thank you, I mean is there yeah other questions for the
applicants and I'd be happy to answer questions
Mr. Higgins, please
To what extent is your
Objection to putting it on a roof
result from
cutting canopy
Just mainly I think the fact that we have more we're
putting up too many panels
For the sun for the roof we have that's available. I think
is what you mean available on in the Sun
Yes, that's available cut canopy and have more roof
available
Well, I don't think so
I think when we did the math on how many panels we needed
in the square footage in the size of them
No, I don't think that was I mean really we've this is
something we've been working on
Really it is
Because because we've had to have roofs replaced already in
the 13 years. We've been there
we really do know that that's the thing that can happen and
The extra expense of having to have our solar panels
completely removed so we can have a new roof and then have
them back on
Again we're looking at retirement
Fixed income and so so really you really do want solar
panels and you really can use a carport both
Yes, exactly
Other questions other questions for the applicant I
Have a couple yes
So the so do you happen to know how far back that carport
across the street?
I do happen to know those answers the carport
The front line of the carport is 12 feet from the curb and
the first pole is 15 feet from the curb
the new carport down the street is
The pole in the front of it is are all in the same line and
it is 16 feet from the curb
Do you know how far this proposed structure of yours would
be from the curb?
Well, I could probably do the math let's see it's 25 feet
from the front and you have the engineers here, too
They may be able to answer that
Sir do you want to could you come to this is mr. Carrying
up and he is my contractor on the
Structure, I believe I have to swear you in too. So
I want to hear what you have to say, but we got a story
when I got a family notes. Okay. Thank you
Could you please identify yourself with a record name and
address, please?
4232 Wells Drive Lake Worth, Texas
Okay
And under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that
any testimony or information you provide?
Or any statement you make before this board is complete
true and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability
Yes, ma'am. I do go ahead please
The upper edge of the carport approximated to be between 9
and 10 feet from the edge of the street
The lower columns will be set back
slightly from that it will can leave the support
Beams will cantilever pass that a little bit to carry the
top of the carport but the columns will be
At least 10 feet back from the curb. So I'm sorry. So that
's the edge of the carport would be
About 10 feet from the curb the top edge of the cart the
top edge where the overhang because it's gonna over
We'll be between 9 and 10 feet, but the pole itself would
be back a little way. It will be back another
Foot to 2 feet from that. Okay, and if a smaller structure
were to be proposed
with that significantly change the
Structural integrity of this or would it significantly
change the project?
No, I've actually designed it to be overbuilt and
to support the extra weight of the solar panels that
Alternatex plans on putting on the top the the size of it.
They've designed they've
calculated their solar panel space to
Basically use the entire top of it and cover with solar
panels. Okay, so so a smaller carport
I don't want to call it carport. That's not I mean that's a
sec
It seems like that's a secondary nature the the the smaller
Diminish this smaller the size of this solar panel
structure would then
Diminish the amount of solar panels that they could have on
on the top is that I'm seeing a nod from the corner
So that's just fewer solar panels. So
Okay, that's helpful for me. Thank you
The design dimensions doesn't didn't come from me
It was they told me how much space they needed and so I
worked it from there, right?
So that they would have room to get their panels on there.
Okay, that's helpful. Thank you
Any other questions?
Mr. Sarrat
And I don't even know that this is something that we are
supposed to entertain
but when you say they the space they needed are you talking
about the
The space they needed for their cars or the space they
needed for the solar collectors in order to support the
energy needs their house
Well for my design it's a little bit of a combination of
both so that we don't have to design it
So that sir, can you move to Mike? So we want to begin. I'm
sorry
Usually people tell me I'm loud
But they need a certain number of square footage to put
their panels in but at the same time so that
the
Carport doesn't look incommensurate with the structure the
columns and the way that it's designed needs to fit with
the property
So I had to take all that into consideration when I design
the size and new way of shape
Do you happen to have a
mock-up to show us or
Examples of other things that you've designed or maybe I do
not have that with me at the moment
I might have some pictures on my phone that I can fan
through but I'm not sure those would help you a lot at this
Okay, I'm just I guess I'm just getting trying to get a
picture of this what it would the kind of the final product
What that would look like?
tube steel columns
Channel stringers for the
parlance to attach to with the metal roof and
that gives them an at the alternate X and ample structure
to
Attach their solar panels to I believe they're going to be
somewhere around 750 pounds
neighborhood, but
Spread out over a sure the large area. Okay
Three pounds of square foot, okay
Any other questions
Okay
Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. Yeah
And this is a public hearing
So if anyone would like to speak for or against this issue,
you're certainly welcome to take the microphone now
You'll have three minutes. I don't have any cards in front
of me. Yes, sir
That'd be great if you could approach the microphone and
then state your name and address for the record and before
you leave if you
Wouldn't mind filling out a card to that would be very
helpful. So name and address, please
Okay, I need to raise my hand your name and address please
for the record. Yes
My name is Leon Tribble and I live just down the street. I
Live at 3411 Hummingbird. Thank you, sir. Let's get you
sworn in. All right
Under penalty of perjury
Do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information
you provide or any statement you make before this board is
complete?
True and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability.
Yes, I do. Thank you. You may proceed. I
Have I have lived at 3411 Hummingbird for almost 48 years
We moved to Denton in
1969
November of 69. So we're coming up on almost 48 years and
Over that last 48 years the neighborhood has changed
somewhat and we've got a lot of good people a lot of good
neighbors there and and I enjoy
your
Friendship and companionship close by I have nothing
against you at all. I
Don't have anything against carports either
When I first got the the notice that there was going to be
a hearing about the variance
I did not know what a solar panel support was
solar panel support structure
I'm not too
too keen on on
Modern computers and stuff
But I was able to look up on the computer to see what a
support structure was and I found several
And I had no idea of what was going up. I found some that
were about three feet high
off the ground and I have seen some of those that are grown
and my main concern was is this going to be an
attractive nuisance
Something that the kids in the neighborhood are going to
climb on and something that they could get hurt on
also those support structures that I have seen that are
Two or three feet off the ground. They all seem to be
Situated above a rock
Surface they have rocks underneath them and so the grass
won't grow and that sort of thing
And I was concerned about that because I did not want
anything in our neighborhood
That would make our property values go down
Over the years I have seen our property values and our
taxes go up and every time our
Property values go up taxes go up
Every time property values go down taxes go up. So whatever
it is, that's not going to make too much but
That that was my main opposition is I was concerned that
there was going to be something built in the front yard
Or to the side of the driveway that was going to be about
knee-high
That would be hard to mow underneath or you're going to
have to spray it with insecticides
Which we don't need in our system anymore
But since I found out that you're looking at a carport I
Would just hope that if this variance is approved that it's
a little bit upscale as to pose as what is across the
street
So I don't want I don't want the variance approved if you
're going to put up some junk. I
Have enough junk at my own house
I have a question for you then because and thank you very
much. This is very helpful and
You filled out a response form and in it you wrote
I'm not sure just what a solar panel support structure is
you did your homework you came to the meeting your your you
learned
But you also clicked or checked that you were opposed to
the request
Are you still opposed to the request are you have you
changed your mind on this? I just want to be clear for the
record
I'm not sure okay
Yeah, no my wife wants one
I just want to be clear because what because I see this and
I hear your concerns
Yeah, it sounds like those concerns have been addressed and
so are you still opposed or have you are you neutral to the
request?
Are you because that's going to play out on how our overall
map looks we have right next door to me
we have a house that has just recently put solar panels on
the roof and
And that's fine if they want to do that
as far as a
variance to the
city code I
Don't know about that because if you grant a variance
for this situation
Next month somebody's going to want to come up, and they're
going to want to put something else up and next time
it'll be something else and if we the reason that we have
these codes now is because they work and
And they keep the neighborhood up as much as we can so I'm
kind of
apprehensive about
changing the code
For anything
and yet
I'm not opposed to a carport
So I guess I'm kind of neutral on the situation. I've
changed my mind
Okay, since I found out what it was okay, because I didn't
know what we've talked about it first. That's very helpful
Okay, so I'm neutral on the fact so so I hope Julie if you
could
Are you able to update that map at all before we kind of
open it up for discussion?
I
Can't update the map however
In order to approve a various a supermajority is required
anyway
So whether there's 20% opposition or not a supermajority
would be required anyway. I'm just thinking visually
Some of us are visual
That's fine, that's just fine. Thank you. Did you have
anything else you want to add?
It's going to be me high out in the front yard, and I'd be
opposed to it
But since it's a carport, I'm going to be up
I'm neutral on the situation. Thank you, sir. Yes
This is a public hearing so if anyone would like to there
you go approach the microphone
And if you could state your name and address for the record
. I'll get you sworn in
Alastin ruffin
7566 FM 1758 Bowie, Texas
Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any
testimony or information you provide or any statement you
make before this board is complete
True and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability
I do okay go ahead
Okay, so I mean it's it's simple the reason for the carport
is there is not enough roof surface on south or east or
west
Facing to make it work. It is a system designed to meet her
base load
There will be some buyback on DME side and all that does is
free up the grid for everybody else
so it's
So yes, it is a carport there will be cars under it all you
're going to see is a trailing edge of panels
That's all you'll see you'd need I mean it's going to be as
high as the roof, right?
So you'd need a drone with a camera to see the panels
So
We don't do ugly work
We have a great relationship with Denton our company does
you can drive around you can see our work. We've done
Six or seven systems in Denton right now one from giant
ground mounts to
Most of them are roof mounts
We we don't we don't want to leave the customer unhappy.
They don't like it. We fix it
Never had any complaints from any of the neighbors. They've
actually wanted to sign up so I
Understand variances. I understand code violations things
like that
This is going to help Denton. It's not just for them. They
're not doing it just for them doing it for everyone
so I just
When it comes vote time just just think about your kids,
you know
Where's that grid going to be in the next 30 years if
people like the barn hills get denied?
Do you happen to have any
Images you could share with the group on the phone. Do you
want to bring up the house image?
I can kind of give them an idea of where everything's gonna
go
So I do have a question yes over here you said that the
full loan how many square feet would you with it required
to?
Cover the full load. I don't know what that means
There you go panels are 290 watt panels apiece
They'll have inverters AC inverters which rapid shutdowns
So if somebody happens to climb on and start messing with
something no one's gonna die
But the
something like this
The carport he designed we're going almost edge to edge
with it, but still staying within fire code
So square footage square footage on this is a total square
footage
Maybe a thousand square feet. I mean, it's just whatever
the size of the roof is on the carport
Right, so a thousand square feet how much of the existing
roof would be
Sufficient for solar panels to obtain that solar okay
well
You can't put anything facing north correct the back side
of the house where is the most roof roof surface, right?
That's all north that you can't do that one
There's no credits DME says no and your system will never
work like it's supposed to but on the south side
How much on the south side?
There's there's enough room there to get 16 16 of the 35
proposed panels to go up there how many square footage is
that
See quick math
There's an app for that
I'm terrible with math. Where's my kit? There it is. Okay
So
Roughly 640 square feet so not even that out of a thousand
640 can be on that existing roof. Yeah, and that they think
that that's too much. Let me see
Yeah
Yeah, the pan the panels themselves are
66 inches long by 40 inches wide
So smaller than a sheet of plywood and there'll be eight
across two high on
The south facing roof and then everything else will be on
the carport if it's approved
And if this if this structure is approved would that
basically take them off the electrical grid they'd they'd
have no no
Everything that we do is grid tied unless they opt out.
Sorry
I know you mean yeah, because you said the DME could buy
back
But I'm sorry, what would it meet there would it basically
meet their their needs for electricity on a day-to-day
basis?
Yes after the energy when we come in we do whole home
energy audit
Figure out what your annual consumption is and build a
system to that size
Did they do this one at a hundred percent?
Do you know?
Do they size it at a hundred percent or like? I?
Mr.. Barnhill mr.. Barnhill can you come forward please and
sorry that no this is this is helpful
So we're gonna speak into the microphone so we can get it
on record for everyone, and I got to swear you in - I know
Okay, so name and record please 29. I mean burden and then
okay
Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any
testimony or information you provide or any statement you
make before this board is
Complete true and correct to the best of your knowledge and
ability yes, thanks
I'm gonna have this memorized so the time this meetings
over it's okay. Go ahead so okay
What we say when we were negotiating this in the beginning
and they came in and did the survey
They said
Theoretically you probably won't have an electric bill
anymore
But in reality in the heat of the summer you know
You may be spending 40 or 50 bucks as opposed to the 600.
We're spending now and and I caught up you know
To some folks that have gotten solar panels and and you
know we just kind of discuss it and they're saying that's
true
You know you just have to have enough
You know if you start cutting down
What you can put it you know you're getting less
electricity so
But with what they propose
Again, he said theoretically there. You know you should be
free of an electric bill, but in reality
You know maybe a couple hundred dollars during peak usage
days. Yeah, something so
I had a question
Your wife who wants to carport did she like the one on the
end not the one across from us, but
Yeah, okay, but the other one and we we went down and
looked at that and we've you know we won't like that
like the one across the street from us I
Met because I was I was at your property today getting a
better look at this and what the one across the street was
really noticeable
All right, the what as I was driving
Your wife said make you know keep a lookout for the other
one at the end
And I I almost missed it because it just kind of blended it
and blends right. Yeah, yeah
It's not a nice or at all
Okay
Are there any questions of
The applicants or the speakers
And the solar shingles they are so expensive and
inefficient
You'd have to have a roof twice that size to get even a
third of what we want what we're proposing
I just figured the technology will come down. It will it
will it's getting there. It's just that
Elon Musk is a good salesman. I
Have a question for you, sir
Mr. Serra may I be recognized would you just point out to
us where that setback would be the about 10-foot?
Setback about where where it would come to on that picture
there
It would extend like that's essentially a three-car
driveway, yes, sir
It would cover all that much with
the whole driveway I
Don't even think it would cover that I think you maybe two
cars with one just right there at curb level
Hanging out the back of it
Is it good?
Sorry, go ahead. No, no, no you have to recognize me
Who was first? He was first
Not sure
Where's Danny one of it? If you if you push three cars
If you push three cars up against the house
Because that a driveway will accommodate cross not down
right so the whole go all the way across. Yes, sir
That's what the seven feet on the sides for
So I guess the yeah proposed
I
Miss us a lot. Could you go back to that other picture? Do
you know I'm sorry, ma'am
I'm just trying to visualize this from the neighbors
perspective
So are you gonna follow the lines of that Eve that?
That triangle there are you or you come in outside of that
or inside of that?
Where's your carport?
By this picture
Sir, sir, if you can get to the mic
Can you go to the microphone and can he maybe use a cursor
or something or the mouse and identify yourself, too?
Okay, okay. Okay. Hold on we're gonna take a break. I need
you to if you could please
Just one more time for the record. Just your name again. I
know you are
And I don't have to swear you in again. It's okay. Is there
a way that he can use a cursor so he can
There so you can speak into the microphone
No, I was wondering that the thank you pitch of the roof is
it going to fall exactly the pitch?
That's coming off the front is going to be larger smaller
The driveway is has a fairly decent slope downhill towards
the street
And the carport is going to pitch that direction
It's going to be a single slope. It will it will the front
edge of it will attach to the house
right along here below the eave but above the garage doors
and
It will be a basically a flat structure with a slope. Oh
sloping towards the street
To about where this joint is in the concrete
over to this side of the side driveway
When you say it was architecturally compatible, I guess I
was picturing
It was going to capture that pitch of the eaves and come
out like this. Well, it's gonna be flat
For their best use of the solar panels. It's better if it's
flat
I understand pitch then they end up losing the ability to
use one side. I understand
Thank you
Thank you all metal with trim trim that actually matches
the color of the trim of the house
It'll just kind of blend right in with it. Thank you. And I
think it's important to to point out to your question
Mr. Higgins how far out to the side it was going to extend
that they are the applicant is requesting a
Variance into the side yard
But it is that neighbor to the side that also wrote in
support of this request and there as I understand it
They actually own and reside in that property and the
people across the street with the other carport
Yeah, mr. Saka
Mr. Saka I really quickly how many square feet is the car
port?
Did a thousand square feet is it 1200 square feet is it
That isn't written on my drawing but I can tell you in just
a moment
737 and a half square feet
And
Since they're looking at like a thousand square feet of
panels
they're still going to put some on the house on the side
that they can use and
Then they're going to use the carport structure to support
the rest of them
That's the plan right? Yeah, that's the plan. Okay. Any
other questions?
Very helpful. Thank you. I think you can take a seat, but
you might have to come up later. So stay tuned
Yeah, you bet. Thank you. This is a public hearing. So if
there's anyone who would like to speak for or against this
Proposal or this request you have a few minutes at the
microphone
Anyone
Okay, seeing none I will close the public hearing correct
legal counsel
We're closing the public hearings and opening it up to
discussion. Okay, I'm gonna close the public hearing now at
516 and we can open it up for discussion
Can we discuss I think we can just go right on into it. So
mr. Saka I
Would say I'm not in favor in most particularly because I
think if you look at the criteria
Which guides us that is special circumstances or conditions
that apply to the parcel for which the variance is sought
which
Are peculiar to the parcel and not generally to other parc
els in the area. I think that's a no I
think
You know the granting of the variance will not be
detrimental to the public welfare injurious to others
Well, I don't know even the gentleman that came up here
said he wasn't
Sure, is that just gonna open the door to have a whole
bunch of variances for more carports?
and
The granting of the variance is necessary for the
reasonable use of the parcel. I would say it's not
I
Would also
Say that what we are really talking about is a is a carport
the granting of a carport
Not the granting of a solar panel
Even though that's a great roost to you know, great thing
to discuss and I'm so totally in favor of car of solar
panels
I just don't think looking at the neighborhood in general
and the fact that
two carports were
Mistakenly
Developed in that neighborhood should allow us to grant a
variance for all
Carports now if I had a hundred percent of the neighbors or
ninety percent of the neighbors saying yeah
Go ahead and we want to put carports all over the place. I
think that's a little different. So I'm gonna vote against
it
Yeah, please
Just something to add to
Sokos comments is that I would even make it a more basic
classification is that
It's not really a variance to a carport. It's a variance to
any structure
So technically or let me say theoretically you could board
up that structure in the future
Not saying that these applicants are going to
but maybe it is possible that if
The variance is granted here and then subsequent property
owners in the neighborhood
Some neighbor could do that and so you can actually have an
enclosed structure because this is only a variance for the
Distance requirements for the setbacks. That's my question
Yeah, mr. Higgins I
Really want to call for miss barnhill on
the effort and expense and trouble they went to develop
this and to be exacted and it's
Presentation and it really is it really is well done. I
think
I
Wish I could support it. I but I can't and I'll make my
arguments in the following way
First of all, I agree with mr. Commissioner Saco
when you go through the criteria, it does not meet the
criteria and I'm
Inclined to think like mr. Tribble thinks you know, I mean
the camel gets his nose under the tent and then
Even though if a gets it that doesn't mean B should get it
there's sort of a bias to help be get it because they got
it and
So I would that would be a problem for me
second I would
Bring bring up what mr. Mangitha mentioned which is that
while we're talking a lot about solar panels and the desir
ability of that
That is not the governing consideration here. The governing
consideration is the variance and
Really when I look at that and I see the scale and I drove
I drove the site today
It's been about 10 minutes looking at
the scale of that that is really
Really is large. That's not really consistent with what
happens in the neighborhood
so
That's that's a problem with me
When you
Drive the site and you look at the three
Car carport right across the street which does extend way
out now
This was going to extend way out to it's a shame that they
'd be right now right across from each other like that
but that's going to create I really think
Something there's not complimentary to the neighborhood or
to the values the property in the neighborhood and finally
what I would say is I
Looked at the vote here
of the neighbors and I realized that
Miss Barnhill has included two
positive votes in her in her applicant in her packet
but when you look at the
Ones the neighbors that have submitted in response to the
solicitation from the city
The vote was the vote was five to two against now, mr. Barn
hill
I mean, sorry, mr. Triple B becoming ambivalent on the deal
. So if I scratch that
It's still a vote of four to two against and it's not just
that it's that vote neighbors
I think want to support neighbors my neighbor down the
street wanted to do something
I'd like to let them do help them do it and do what they
want to do
So it says to me that on balance there
of those that voted
There there is a concern about its impact upon the
neighborhood
so
with all compliment to miss Barnhill and
What she wants to do?
And how she's presented it. I feel like I have to vote
against it
I'm sorry. No because what the the the public hearing is
closed now. Thank you
Mr. Surratt
This is one of those decisions that I used to deal with
with my children and with my students is
that my emotions tell me one way and the rules tell me
another way and
I also want to support it and I'm also concerned that my
emotions for
Alternative energy are not one of the criteria's that we
can consider
I would say that if the
board
decides to decline
That I would like I really think that that this is
something that's needed in the city that more
momentum for this and that you should go to your
council representative and
Look at doing some site designs and you know some sort of
codes
How do we put solar collectors where there's not enough
space?
I have a south-facing garage, and I'm waiting for the
technology to arrive so that it fits the space of my garage
Then I'm going to reroute my garage put solar panels on it,
and that's what I'm waiting for
You know, but I would love to see it. I'd love to see that
Energy because it's something I really want in the city so
go to the council see what kind of site design what kind of
?
things that we can do
But anyway, that's so I
Have some reflections and
So I'm actually going to disagree with staff's
interpretation of some of the
special circumstances
Because I see for example the staff argues that
Okay, so section 35 3 6 b 2 DDC blah blah
Section a or it says the subject property does not have
special circumstances or conditions that do not apply
generally to other parcels in the neighborhood
I'm going to disagree with that the reason I'm going to
disagree with that is because this is actually an owner
occupied property
There's a lot of rentals on the street
These are the owners of the property the people who have
There are the map did not reflect it and I wish that it
would have been more accurate this evening
But those who support this also live like directly across
the street and in visual they're going to see this it's
going to impact
Arguably their properties more than any of the other
properties on the street
and and so I think that this does have a special
circumstance because its owner occupied and
The owner is seeking out solar panels
Which is something we as a city have set out as a goal to
to make easier for our residents to do and
And I don't see us
Working with the resident in this so this is a very special
circumstance owner occupied
wants a solar panel it fits in with the Denton 2030 plan
and to your point mr.
Mengita you you said it's not necessarily the solar panels
that were against but the placement of them I
Hear your point however. This is an estate these either
there are established trees all up and down
This this street. This is an older home with with older
trees on it
It's kind of silly to put up solar panels if you have to
cut down trees to do it kind of defeats the purpose right
and
So so I hear that it's not a sub at the solar plans but
placement of them
But I mean when we have people in the in the city center
who who want to improve their property
And the city's not really willing to work with them on that
even though the city has said we we need to make this a
priority
I see a real disconnect there, so I disagree with staffs
interpretation of that and secondly part B
What you know they're trying to create visually uniform
neighborhoods?
There are other existing
Carports on the street one is done very nicely
That I almost I drove past and I almost missed it and so
when it's done nicely it can create
Some some uniformity in the neighborhood because there are
already existing
Structures so so I disagree with staffs interpretation of
this I am in support of this and I think it's
Really unfortunate that we're making the applicant jump
through so many hoops when we have explicitly said as a
city that this is something
That we want to to work on and and become a greener city
And so so I'm actually in support of this and wish we can
make it easier for people in the future
So other discussion
Mr. House I'm gonna have to agree of mr. Sacco and
gentlemen to my right I
Don't think that this meets the special circumstances
And I don't think that just because the homeowner versus a
very heavily rental neighborhood is meeting special
circumstances
That's like saying well. I own my car, but you lease so I
get the right of way it doesn't work for me
And I understand that they've got these large old-growth
trees, and I'm not saying they should come down
But they maybe could be thinned quite a bit
Maybe they could get some solar panels on their roof
instead of all the ones they want and not get a hundred
percent
But get some of them off their belt. There's just options
seems to me
that
Can be met
within the codes as they stand
And just because there's two carports one that was
permitted by mistake
Okay, and one that was has seems almost from the
description from staff almost like a scoff-law
Who's in an agreement that yes my neighbor across the
street should have a carport like mine
So then next month I can come and get a variance for mine
too that I've been building since 2003 and rebuilding and
rebuilding and rebuilding
so
Their support kind of doesn't carry it for me considering
that they're already
Violating city ordinance and have been since a long time
back and they keep rebuilding it and they keep adding on to
it
And they keep changing it every time they buy or sell a
boat or a car or whatnot
so I'm a little concerned that
while I believe that these
residents have every intention of building a
solar panel structure
The question does become a concern of what about the next
person that comes in wants to get a variance for their
extended
Okay, so it's a concern for me
And I don't see anything that meets the guidelines for a
variance in this case while it is said and I do like the
idea
of solar panels like everybody else I
Don't see anything that says to me that
They can't live in their house without this solar panel
array the way that they want to build it right now
Mr. Sokka, did you have your hand up? I was gonna make a
motion that we deny the
The variance as requested
Second
The first from mr. Sokka a second from mr. House and the
motion is to deny the request
Is there any further discussion before we take a vote?
All in favor of denial
Five
And I I guess I would then I guess voting against the
denial
That's two so the vote carries five to two and the variance
is denied
Requires so
Required can you interpret that for me? It requires a super
majority so
Can you can you speak I want to hear what your answer is
action taken by this board requires a super majority
So we're a hung jury or something. Is that what that means?
I'll make it easy. Yeah, let me I'm gonna make another
motion
I'll make a motion. We approve it, which means if we have a
superman now, we already voted what right so
So I want to hear your answer. The motion was to deny
The variance request now if mr. Sokka wants to make a
motion to approve staff's recommendation
It's my understanding that would
not be a denial that would be
Affirmation of staffs recommendation. Okay. I'm gonna rephr
ase
So so we voted it was five to however was not a supermajor
ity therefore the motion does not
Carry is that correct? Well it if I can interrupt
The super majority is to approve it to approve only
To deny it does it the supermajority does not?
They don't think you need a supermajority
Jobbing is me hard
The reason why a variance requires a supermajority in under
these circumstances it's to approve only
Right. So by the five to vote to deny the request is that
vote?
Doesn't approve it doesn't approve it. No, because it's not
an affirmative vote to approve if we did if somebody did a
motion to approve it
Which is probably what I should have done
Which and then we got a second and then we voted against it
Then it would be dead. So that's where the confusions, but
I think it's a text. I'm just interested mr. Sokka's
Larry names so suck suck. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. I interpreted
his to be a denial
of
Staffs recommendation, but you're actually saying you're
proving staffs recommendation. So that doesn't that is what
I was saying. Yes
So that does not say deny the variance the great variance,
right?
So where we at?
So that that motion carries
Because it doesn't require a supermajority. That's correct
It's only the change in the ordinance that grant that the
variance ordinance requires a supermajority
Prove it would require a six one vote but to deny it we
just did
Is it yes six one or five two, oh wait, we've got six
people so
Clear as mud
Be a five one vote, okay
So in a nutshell we've
approved staffs
recommendation of
denial
Yeah, that's good she was like, yeah sure
Okay, sorry, okay, and I lost all my notes
Okay, thank you. All right that brings us to the end of our
agenda any concluding items is there anything we'd like to
see it future
ZBA meetings or any
other items we need to
Mention it this time
Okay
Mr. Sarrat not for us, but I would I mean I am in favor of
more of this and and before I feel comfortable with
Granting variances. I'd like the council to weigh in on
what they'd like things to look at so, you know
I take a message to council that will probably more and
more of these and I
Agree, and I think it's something that the planning and
zoning board should probably look at into the planning
department
Yeah, you guys been you know under while you got a lot of a
lot of things that you have to deal with every day
But we have a dent in 2030 plan and we're almost to 2020.
Yeah
So we like if we want to further these goals. These are the
types of things that we need. Okay, we have it in our plan
How are we gonna get there?
I would recommend the staff take that to PNZ or council so
that we have a plan for
how these things supposed to look and and I'd be happy to
write a letter to
Encourage that because I don't like turning down folks
I just have to stick I feel I have to stick by the rules,
but I'm my hearts are with them, you know, and
So I if I can make another comment to you on this to me is
was has
To me had absolutely nothing to do with the solar panels.
Yeah, that's the problem to me
I'm fully in support of solar panels. We'll live for every
neighborhood damn
But when you're building new structures to incorporate a
solar panel
I have a problem with that if it varies from the ordinance
Sounds like something for future staff and PNZ and council.
Yeah, I'd love to see them come up with a consistency
Is there anything else? I
Don't I know we've always voted in the past to adjourn the
meeting but is that a thing that we have to do is that
Just kind of yeah, we do. Okay. All right. Is there a
motion to adjourn the meeting?
Mr. House second mr. Cole all in favor
All right