Oct 30, 2017 Zoning Board of Adjustment on 2017-10-30 4:00 PM

It is now 4 p.m. We are in the City Council work session room. All right Looking around do we definitely have a core a quorum for today's meeting? So we are all set to go. What I'd like to do is go ahead and convene into a work session. Do we have a motion to convene into a work session? Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a second for Mr. Cole. All right, we are now in the part of our agenda. That's a work session. Work session is clarification of agenda items listed on the regular meeting portion of the agenda and to discuss issues of not briefed in the written backup materials. And then following the completion of the work session the Z oning Board of Adjustment will convene into a regular meeting to consider the items. All right, are there is there any clarification relating to today's agenda items and we have on it two different matters one is consider and appoint members of the Zoning Board of Adjust ment for the chair and the vice chair position and then the second is ZBA 17-009 which is consider approval of the 2018 Zoning Board of Adjustment calendar. So we have three matters and then we have a public hearing. Do any of the commissioners wish to discuss any of those items? Chair, if I can address that. You can't address that because I'm not sure why either. That is that's just an opportunity for the board to provide any concluding items any items that they would like to see at a future meeting. So it's just an opportunity to discuss any items again that the board would like to see at a future. It will be it that's a standing item. I don't really remember it being on the last notice, but maybe it was and we just ignored it. I don't know. So it's just a standing item again. It gives us the legal item away to receive input and provide some request. As far as the work session if there's no item on the work session or questions that we would like to discuss during the work session we can go ahead and straight into the regular meeting. Okay, anybody else any other comments? Thank you, Mr. Higg ins. Okay, do I hear a motion to move to to close the work session? Okay. All right, do we have a second? We have a second all in favor? I'm not sure whether we have to close or open it, but but I 'm doing it I did it anyway. So all right, so we're gonna convene now at 4 into the regular meeting and let's go ahead and start with the Pledge of Allegiance if everyone would stand. Take off any hats if you have it and and our flag is right over here. Ready? Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God and ind ivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay, let's go ahead do the Texas flag honor the Texas flag . Okay. All right, our first agenda item is ZBA 17-007. Consider approval of the Zoning Board of Adjustment meeting minutes and that's an attachment under our packet and those are for the September 25th 2017 meeting. Has everyone had the opportunity to review those minutes? Do I have a motion to approve them? I have a motion for Mr. Higgins and a second from Mr. House . Any discussion? Hearing no discussion all in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Okay, let's go to item number three. Consider for individual considerations ZBA 17-008. Consider and appoint members for the Zoning Board of Adjust ment Chair and Vice Chair positions. Okay. Okay, so at this point we can take nominations and then we can kind of go from there and take some nominations and go from there. So let's do one at a time. Let's go ahead and do the chair position first. Nominating Amber Brighill. Is there a second? Nomination of Amber Brighill from Mr. Higgins and a second from Mr. House. Okay, any discussion? Oh, we could I'm sorry. Yeah. I will be happy to serve at the liberty of the group whatever y'all want to do. It's totally fine with me. Or not. I would be honored to serve as the chair, but I also if you 're you're happy doing it, I would also nominate you. But I also then I don't know do we arm wrestle for this? I have no idea. A mud bath or something? It's whatever. Absolutely. Well, I didn't hear anyone else forthcoming at the time. I don't actually know how the process is. I kind of was at my first day and the first committee meeting I was at somebody nominated me and I was like, okay, I guess I'll do that. But it's it's totally open. It's no different than anything else. It's good to probably have some rotation around as well. So it's whatever y'all decide. It doesn't make any difference to me either way. So, thank you. I would be honored to serve as chair. I'm also gonna nominate Mr. Sacco for the same commission. So I don't there you go. All right. I guess do we So I guess we need to think about this because I'm not sure what the structure is. Do we make our campaign speeches now? Oh, hey, you're the one. I was gonna let this continue. See how it went. So there really are no strict rules governing nominations approval, but in this case, I would suggest just taking a chair like you're doing chair and then vice chair. If there's multiple nominations, then there would be a vote . And we can just do that by a show of hands. Or there could be talk of whether if these are the only two nominations which wants to go for chair or vice chair vice versa. That's also a discussion that you guys could have as well. Well, Amber, are you formally saying if nominated I will not run if elected I will not serve is that what you're saying? I'm saying I'm gonna withdraw you want to decline. No, it's no I'd be sincerely I would be honored. I also want to pay deference to our chair who's in the current position and if he's interested, I want to at least you know, also I really like when people vote on things. So So thank you for your nomination. Yeah, I had no objection to mr. Sarko just nothing was forthcoming and I thought ever would be good still do. Okay. Well, let me let me switch the discussion a little bit here so that we're not spending a whole lot of time on it. I'm happy to serve. I understand Amber's happy to serve. Are there any other folks that want to be considered for the chair or vice chair position? How about if we did that way? I would go ahead. I'd be happy to serve as vice chair, but I'd be happy to give it up as well. Okay, so we essentially have three folks that are interested in doing it. So in that regard and in deference to having three competent folks, I'm gonna withdraw as being the chair so that we it doesn't hurt to fluctuate in and rotate in I am happy to withdraw as from being the chair and defer and allow y'all there to arm wrestle. I've enjoyed doing it. I think it's been a lot of fun as well as educational to me, but I think like in any structured group whether it's school board or City Council, it's it's good to move leadership around and allow folks to have opportunities and so it doesn't really bother me one bit to do that and since we've got two qualified competent folks, I am happy to defer. That's very gracious. So as a history suggests the co-CEOs never work. No. So what I'd like to do then is we have a nomination and a second for chair for Amber Brighill. I'd like to Is there any further discussion on that position chair? Okay hearing no further discussion. Well, I'm not putting my name to I'm not gonna arm wrestle her for chair. Okay What I'd like to do then is go ahead and have a vote on the chair all in favor of Amber Brighill for chair For this next coming year say aye Okay, let's go to vice-chair do we have we've got Marshall and other nominations are fine And are there any is there anyone else that would like to be vice-chair? Obviously the purpose of vice-chair is step in when the chair is not available And that's Marshall's to ride Is there a second second and we got a second for mr. Cole any discussion Hearing no discussion all in favor All right, so Does she take over now? Yes, okay. There we go. See that was nice I just like I'd like to move my name tag though. Is that okay? Mr. Sacco? I'm just saying we have so many politicians who want to be Permanent in the office you are showing at a local level a model for them Thank you appreciate that I Thoroughly enjoyed learning this ever-changing job There's some other people who could learn from No Well, I like creating my own yes Look why don't we go off the record for two minutes? Can we do that or not? We take a yeah. Yeah, let's take a quick two minute break all in favor. All right Okay, thank you and welcome back to today's zoning board of adjustments meeting the date is Monday October 30th time is 416 We had a little shuffling around but we're back in business and the next item for consideration is ZBA 17 - oh nine and consider approval for the ZBA calendar . Was there any Discussion about this. Do we is this a thing that we vote on just to approve the calendar? Yes, ma'am I'm sure we have put together a calendar and it's just really the first. I'm sorry the last Monday of each month Given maybe some exceptions to a holiday We try to plan it out so that we can publish these dates to the to to the public and therefore we do need it to be recognized and approved by the board I move approval got a First from mr. Sacco any second and the second from mr. Baker Hey, mr. Baker and is there any discussion on this at all? I just let the public know that you know, they Only thing looks like they skirt around was Christmas. Yeah break next time which is good to know anyway Any other discussion on this item Let's take about all in favor Any opposed motion passes And the next item is a public hearing At this point, I'm going to open the public hearing for ZBA 17 - 0 to a The time is 417 and this item is to hold a public hearing and consider approval of a variance From the Denton Development Code section 35 dot 5 dot 2 dot 3 general regulations relating to the minimum front and side yard setbacks on a proper on approximately 0.18 acre the variance requested is for the construction of a solar panel support structure which would encroach into the minimum 20 foot sorry 20 foot front yard setback and minimum six foot side yard setback The subject property is generally located on the north side of hummingbird lane near Cardinal Drive. So and with that We have Julie go ahead Julie Europe I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the city of Denton and I'm presenting ZBA 17 - to you this evening The request before you is to hold a public hearing and consider approval of a variance from DDC section 35 dot 5 dot 2 dot 3 For the construction of a solar panel support structure Which would encroach into the minimum 20 foot front yard setback and minimum six foot side yard setback The subject property is located on the north side of hummingbird Between mockingbird and Cardinal just to orient you here's McKinney right here and then the loop is off to the off to the side The subject property is Governed by an nr4 zoning district the development on the site conforms to nr4 Zoning district both in use and in building envelope It requires a minimum 20 foot front yard setback and a minimum six foot side yard setback The applicant provided a copy of their survey just to allow it to for us to see what's on the side and the dimensions for the development So this is an existing single-family home. It does have a front entry garage and an associated driveway the House is set back 26.2 feet from the front property line, which is here the curb and gutter here So the front property line is here and seven point three feet from the side property line in this location The applicant is proposing to construct a solar panel support structure over the existing driveway it would be attached to the house and extend forward 25 feet from the existing structure and Approximately seven feet to the side. So as you can see these are the limits of that proposed structure It would it would essentially go over the the existing driveway As proposed it would encroach 18.8 feet into the front yard and approximately six feet into the side yard The applicant stated in their narrative that that the reason for putting this structure in this location Is that this this property has an extensive tree canopy and this location is Is the only place that they could maximize the effectiveness of those solar panels Section 35.5.6.2.2.B of the Denton Development Code outlines the the requirements for a variance to be granted from the Board of Adjustment from the minimum setbacks This is where a literal enforcement of the regulations would result in an unnecessary hardship and where the variance is necessary to develop a specific parcel of land because of Something unique to this size whether the shape the size of the topography that would make it different from other parc els So there's also the code also outlines the criteria for approval So first well a variance shall be granted only upon finding that first and I've paraphrased their requirements here. They're fully Outlined in your backup, but the special circumstances or conditions apply to the parcel for which the variance is sought They have to be peculiar to that parcel and they don't generally apply to other parcels in the same district or neighborhood So when staff looked at this criteria for approval in relationship to the request first We looked at the zoning and the adjacent character and development And this is an established neighborhood with a with a traditional suburban character The lot as well as the surrounding lots conform to that in our four zoning district The lots size and shape are similar to surrounding lots Yes, there is a lot of tree canopy on the site, but that's not unique to this to this property residential properties often have have tree canopy of shading their yards and That while solar panels can be a valuable improvement of the inability to install them in an in an optimal location to maximize their usefulness Doesn't deprive the homeowner of using their home They can still live in it it still is is in a single-family home that can that can be used as their dwelling Second that the variance would not be detrimental to the public welfare or injurious to other properties or improvements in the area The intent of minimum yard setbacks both front and side are to create a visually uniform neighborhood with clearly defined yard areas The approval of the variance would does that would disrupt the uniformity the visual uniformity of the neighborhood and create potentially create impacts Not only on the street, but for adjacent properties Third the variance would be necessary for the reasonable use of the parcel and that it would be the minimum variance that would accomplish this purpose This variance isn't necessary in order for them to to occupy their home as a single-family dwelling and so it's not necessary for the reasonable use of their property as a single-family residence and Then finally the literal enforcement and strict application of the provisions would result in an unnecessary hardship the proposing correct encroachment is not required in order to occupy the property and Therefore the enforcement of the setbacks does not pose an unnecessary hardship And we'll take a look at some pictures Google has has a wider view and takes better pictures than I do so I've cribbed these pictures from Google But this is this is hummingbird. It's looking toward Cardinal so toward the loop and as you can see the the the Setbacks create that sort of visual corridor where you've got the street then you have the yard area and then you have the homes This is the subject property and Then here is the street near the subject property so as you can see across from the subject property there is in fact a shade structure a a Carport that does extend from their home and extends almost to the street We've done some research on this and and at this time I can't find a permit that was that was issued for this but there is there is a Carport similar to what they're proposing in their neighborhood However, then when we zoom out we look back at the aerial that we looked at at the beginning of the presentation If you look you can see a long hummingbird You can see all the driveways Along the adjacent properties. So this isn't a consistent development pattern within that within the area It's not something that all residents have in this area public notification was sent out There's some variation in in the colors of reds. I don't know if you can see that on the screen There was one in favor and then several in opposition The darker red were there was a notification error on the first so this on this Project so there was a notification sent out for the September meeting. Those were notices that I received for that meeting I went ahead and included them But I wanted to let you know that those were not for this request the ones in the lighter the lighter red were sent when the Prop the the request was renoticed for this meeting If I may and I seem to remember in the packet there were two note two letters from neighbors in support of this request Is is that why is that other neighbor not in? I obviously missed that on my map. Yeah, there were There were two if you can tell me what that address was and I can see if I can yes And in fact, I actually drove out to the applicant's property today because I really want to get a better look at this And she had informed me and she can speak to this too And she has her opportunity to speak that it was her neighbor on the side yard. So that property there, okay You can correct me if I'm wrong. Miss Barnhill when you get up here, but That one should also be marked as green and that is I think also the side yard Yes, that would be approaching on so I think that's important to note that that green should be indicated on. Thank you I I missed that I apologize. Thank you Sorry, you'll get an opportunity to speak. Don't worry hold that thought This According to her letter she has but I may have I have may have messed up this slide Number Okay, that is that is yes, so I okay I've missed you I apologize I can so Keep that in mind that that those are included in your backup. However, I didn't reflect them on on this map So are you saying that two folks approved and then let's just make sure we got this right the opposition how many folks opposed it? Within the 200 foot buffer. Yes, a portion of this lot a portion of this lot this lot and then this lot so for okay In is it open up for discuss chair recognizes mr. Sacco I forgot my question. I'm kidding. It's not time for discussion yet But if you have questions for staff, this would be the time Well, my my question is the general character of the neighborhood if that particular person across the street Didn't get theirs permitted, which is what it sounds like would the city have allowed A carport in that particular not without a variance. Okay in in You just I believe I read in the packet that you did research that and that particular person across the street didn't have a variance Not one that I can find. Okay Thank you So based upon the criteria for approval Outlined in the didn't development code staff recommends denial of the variance to request into The variance to encroach into the front and side yard set backs and I'll stand for any questions Any questions for staff Mr. House. I have a question. What is There's the current city ordinance regarding Structures in the front set back of the property our car ports allowed I'm not certain or is it just the fact that it's going to encroach The setbacks at all a carport would be allowed sub chapter 12 if the didn't development code outlines the requirements for accessory structures If the carport is proposed to be attached to the property, so it actually become a part of the primary structure if it were not Attached to the subject property. It would not be permitted in the front yard. It would have to be either and it would have to be in the rear But because it is proposed to be attached it could it could go in the front yard provided it did not Encroach into that front yard setback Due to the size and shape of the structure that they would like to construct That's why they're here today in order to in order to seek a variance for those setbacks To construct the the structure. I would also like to point out that In in reviewing this we also talked with building inspections because they'll be the ones If approved they would be the ones processing and And reviewing the permit and the International Residential Code would prohibit the construction of the the structure within two feet of the property line, so so Regardless of what's approved today the the building permit could only be for For a structure that was a minimum of two feet away from either the front or side property lines Mr. Sarrat, I have two questions one The is car this simple question. I probably know the answer is a carport Allowed on if there's working garage already Yes, a carport would be allowed provided that it met the requirements in subchapter 12 of the Denton development code that it would be In the rear of the property that it would not Cause the property to exceed lot coverage that it would not be in any setbacks or in any easements It would also need to be architecturally compatible with the primary structure or screen from view Of adjacent property owners and the public right-of-way the other question is I? Think I know the answer this too. Do we have any site design criteria for? There's a fancy term for it, but for solar collectors. I know that you can have some that actually look like Shakes I mean that look like you know What's the word for it shingles shingles? Thank you? shingles is for composition And I know they're more expensive So do we have any site design for like in this case where you want to make it architecturally compatible at this time we don't if they were proposing a solar panel structure that That was visible from the public right-of-way and that Was in the rear yard not attached to the property, but in the back or on their roof They could they could install those solar panels those wouldn't necessarily have to be architecturally compatible But the structure on which they sit would have to be Did that did that answer your question it did it might be something for great idea to Take up to have site design standards because as we were talking as the prices go down more and more people want to do this including me So so I want to know what would look good Mr.. Socko I have a question, so how many feet? In the right-of-way on the front and on the side are they actually encroaching They wouldn't be Per their proposal they would not be encroaching in the right-of-way you can see right here This is their property line and their house is set back twenty six point. I'm sorry I've let me apologize. I meant the setbacks not the right- of-way um if my math is correct Approximately eighteen point eight feet because they are they their house is set back More than the minimum so it's actually set back twenty six over twenty six feet Whereas the minimum the minimum is is twenty feet So so the actual encroachments eighteen point eight Okay So that leads me to my follow-up I'm gonna follow up with because I've got one specific question and one general question my specific question is I guess how far away from the Curb with this structure be and how far away from the curb is the structure across the street I? Don't know the one across the street. I'm not I'm not aware of that For this one I don't have a dimension in looking at Let's see if I can Doesn't get closed in looking at what they're proposing and then and then overlaying that with their survey The the proposed structure would extend forward 25 feet from their prop from their home It does look like they're per their survey Their house is set back 26.5 feet from their property line. This is probably the right-of-way Parkway sidewalk which is typically it part of the public right-of-way so By this it looks like this is the curb. I just don't know how far away that okay, so it would take up it will go almost I'm sorry, so it's 26.5 feet is their house set back this would be a 25 foot structure so this would go But I'll probably be a foot and a half from okay from there from their end of their property line But then there's but then there's some right-of-way several feet of curb and utilities underneath okay And my more general question is how does this help us further our goal? towards Being a greener city as we you know I've always talked about the dent in 2030 plan We worked really hard on that you guys so How how would a request for this a citizen who wants to put solar panels on their home? improve their the value of their home They're hoping to improve the the value of their neighborhood and the value of our community and of the world like how? Can can you talk to me about kind of green energy and solar panels and how the 2030 plan could fit into this? so I'll take I'll take a stab at that of course the Creating a sustainable you know community sustainable house is something that didn't plan 2030 is for and certainly this would help in that cause of our see solar panels wind devices any other sustainability type Functions that would you know help in that effort the city would welcome you know and actually D Meade and municipal electric has some programs in which the If there were introductions of such devices they would be entered into some programs, so That's something that we want to incentivize certainly having solar panel is something that we would like to see more and more as well However, just this particular case alone The location that solar panel is what we're looking at not necessarily the introduction of solar panel is really what 's what structure is being constructed right I've got some counterpoints to that, but I know we're not that the discussion yet, so I'm gonna hold that thought sorry mr. Strath I have one last question Not considering the tree canopy if they were put solar collectors on the existing roof of the house what are the current standards rules for that Even if it's three feet away from the neighbors They would just have to acquire just a permit So setback doesn't count for that No said that when that's what I was wondering about And I understand the conditions for this house. I was just wondering Mr.. House, I'm sorry just one more quick question. We keep referring to the carport across the street I'm just wondering if that's an unpermitted structure is that being looked into by the code enforcement department Or is that I did a little research on that there was a case open several years ago The person who reviewed that is no longer with the city and the records are somewhat Thin so I'm not quite sure what? What happened other than in his research? He determined that the that the Carport was built between 2005 and 2007 He did not give any indication that he found a permit. I didn't find one so I'm not sure if what one may have been Acquired and I just didn't I wasn't able to find it Thank you Any other questions for staff Julia question just to make sure that I understand this correctly the Variance is being requested for the for the setbacks raise. It's not a variance to Construct a certain structure. No sir. It's just for the setbacks Mr. Saka and on that same token, and this is kind of where my line of thought is It it speak really because they want to build a carport there Correct and the carport will have there's two issues one is putting a solar structure which no problem, but the bigger issue is a non-con a a Variance for putting the actual structure itself the car port. Yes, sir So if we granted the variance for the carport and they decided or elected not to put the solar structure Could that occur? Yes, okay Just to follow up on that granting this variance to the set backs Doesn't necessarily restrict what kind of structure could go on Past this it's just saying that they can build into the side the front yard setback And so after this variance is granted if it is granted There's really no Conditions that we can place after they build whatever they build could that be a condition we put in the motion though But no because the variance is just to the encroachment Sorry, let me I'm sorry let me understand so if if If someone were to make a motion to approve could that person say you know we approve with the following conditions that this only be a solar panel support structure and not an Additional bedroom that you're adding yeah the the variance pertains to the real estate Rights that go with the property because again. This would be something that would go on Well past this owner or future owners and go on for generations and so the only Condition that I would be comfortable recommending or Supporting would be something that would be willing to like to the footprint of whatever that structure is Because I think it's going to be separated from the main Residents it would be attached to the main residence So a condition that could be placed is that it would be to the footprint of whatever it's proposed So it wouldn't connect later Because what you're doing is you're just saying they can build so many feet in front of whatever the property line is We'll cross that when we get there. Thank you any other questions for staff Okay, thank you. Thank you Okay, I have to do a thing here now we're talking to the people now is that the next thing that we do Yes, okay, does the applicant does? How much time do I know we get we want to hear from the applicant how much time does the applicant get? I think they get as much time as they want. Okay, so the applicant here. All right, would you like to come forward, please? So if you could step towards the microphone Sure Okay, if you are appearing before this board as provided under chapter 602 0025 of the Texas government code all testimony is sworn. So therefore could you please identify yourself for the record? Yes Hi, I'm Sharon barnhill and Your address, please 33 29 hummingbird lane here in Denton. Thank you. Can you raise your right hand? Under penalty of perjury Do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide or any statement you make before this board is complete? True and correct to the best or best of your knowledge and ability. Yes, I do. Okay, go ahead Okay. Well, I guess first of all, I wanted to make sure yes that you knew I do have letters from the neighbor right next to me and the neighbor across the street that has the carport I will tell you that when we moved in in 2003 most of that carport was already standing I think that's why she can't find Anything about it since we've lived there He has traded a truck for a boat and had to rebuild one end of it And then he got rid of the boat and he had to read we've watched that happen several times knowing that we can't have a carport Anyway, so last October the some people at the end of the street I think this is in my packing material have a lovely new carport So I called the city so excited to see if they had gotten a building permit and they had So we contacted Alternatex we started working towards trying to figure out how to put our solar panels in our yard that is covered with trees I can't grow anything as far as vegetables because I have so much shade in my yard anyway, so then I When we after we got that all going and I had a contractor that was going to do the structure for us And he came down to get a building permit and found out that that was not going to happen So we later found out I guess the one at the end of the street was issued in error And I don't know what that means But we think it's a lovely cardboard. I have some pictures here of it if you'd like to see it I Mean, I don't know what protocol is can I hand the pictures around or what do I do? Sure? Your pictures are bigger than my pictures so The first two pictures are What I look out my kitchen window at is the carport across the street. They are lovely neighbors I will say they have had a television a huge big television in their yard for two weeks And I did call both code enforcement and solid waste and it 's still there Then there's some pictures. I think of our house. There are some pictures of The carport down the street that is new that got the building permit in error because I think you can see it's a lovely carport I'm a little interested to hear to see that one of the objections to our Structure was the house next door to us. There are some pictures of some of the homes on Hummingbird Lane we have a lot of rental property the lady next door who owns a house who I've met once in 13 years and objected The tenants that are in there right now don't mow their yard their trash bin sits on the curb all week long You can see there are several properties on my street. We are not going to do anything to Hummingbird Lane That is going to diminish the beauty of Hummingbird Lane or the Denton Development Code I think we are we want to be able to stay in our home through retirement. We will be on fixed income and Having the solar panels will be a big Benefit for us. I will also say the reason we cannot do the roof for one thing The solar panels will withstand a bigger hail storm than our roof will so if we have roof damage We pay someone to remove solar panels to fix our roof and then put the solar panels back up Plus we have a mother-in-law suite that was added before we lived there we have Half of the two car garage is actually under air. It is a dining room and a laundry room So we have a larger under air square footage than most of the homes in our neighborhood And so we just don't have enough roof in the Sun to put solar panels on our roof I mean trust me we have looked at this my husband is an engineer. We have looked at this trust me and We have been advised by both the solar panel Fellas and my contractor and we think this is going to be something that will look good on our house We're not certainly not gonna put something up that we would be embarrassed by or that our neighbors would be embarrassed by a little surprised about the Objections on the street like I say I encourage you to drive down hummingbird lane. I bet you can pick my house out What else do I need to tell you all Like I say mainly I wanted to share some pictures with you I do have the fellas from the solar panel company here And I have also our contractor that could answer the questions about the structure But it sounds like maybe we're just doing setbacks or maybe the structure questions or not For this panel, I don't know So Thank you, I mean is there yeah other questions for the applicants and I'd be happy to answer questions Mr. Higgins, please To what extent is your Objection to putting it on a roof result from cutting canopy Just mainly I think the fact that we have more we're putting up too many panels For the sun for the roof we have that's available. I think is what you mean available on in the Sun Yes, that's available cut canopy and have more roof available Well, I don't think so I think when we did the math on how many panels we needed in the square footage in the size of them No, I don't think that was I mean really we've this is something we've been working on Really it is Because because we've had to have roofs replaced already in the 13 years. We've been there we really do know that that's the thing that can happen and The extra expense of having to have our solar panels completely removed so we can have a new roof and then have them back on Again we're looking at retirement Fixed income and so so really you really do want solar panels and you really can use a carport both Yes, exactly Other questions other questions for the applicant I Have a couple yes So the so do you happen to know how far back that carport across the street? I do happen to know those answers the carport The front line of the carport is 12 feet from the curb and the first pole is 15 feet from the curb the new carport down the street is The pole in the front of it is are all in the same line and it is 16 feet from the curb Do you know how far this proposed structure of yours would be from the curb? Well, I could probably do the math let's see it's 25 feet from the front and you have the engineers here, too They may be able to answer that Sir do you want to could you come to this is mr. Carrying up and he is my contractor on the Structure, I believe I have to swear you in too. So I want to hear what you have to say, but we got a story when I got a family notes. Okay. Thank you Could you please identify yourself with a record name and address, please? 4232 Wells Drive Lake Worth, Texas Okay And under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide? Or any statement you make before this board is complete true and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability Yes, ma'am. I do go ahead please The upper edge of the carport approximated to be between 9 and 10 feet from the edge of the street The lower columns will be set back slightly from that it will can leave the support Beams will cantilever pass that a little bit to carry the top of the carport but the columns will be At least 10 feet back from the curb. So I'm sorry. So that 's the edge of the carport would be About 10 feet from the curb the top edge of the cart the top edge where the overhang because it's gonna over We'll be between 9 and 10 feet, but the pole itself would be back a little way. It will be back another Foot to 2 feet from that. Okay, and if a smaller structure were to be proposed with that significantly change the Structural integrity of this or would it significantly change the project? No, I've actually designed it to be overbuilt and to support the extra weight of the solar panels that Alternatex plans on putting on the top the the size of it. They've designed they've calculated their solar panel space to Basically use the entire top of it and cover with solar panels. Okay, so so a smaller carport I don't want to call it carport. That's not I mean that's a sec It seems like that's a secondary nature the the the smaller Diminish this smaller the size of this solar panel structure would then Diminish the amount of solar panels that they could have on on the top is that I'm seeing a nod from the corner So that's just fewer solar panels. So Okay, that's helpful for me. Thank you The design dimensions doesn't didn't come from me It was they told me how much space they needed and so I worked it from there, right? So that they would have room to get their panels on there. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you Any other questions? Mr. Sarrat And I don't even know that this is something that we are supposed to entertain but when you say they the space they needed are you talking about the The space they needed for their cars or the space they needed for the solar collectors in order to support the energy needs their house Well for my design it's a little bit of a combination of both so that we don't have to design it So that sir, can you move to Mike? So we want to begin. I'm sorry Usually people tell me I'm loud But they need a certain number of square footage to put their panels in but at the same time so that the Carport doesn't look incommensurate with the structure the columns and the way that it's designed needs to fit with the property So I had to take all that into consideration when I design the size and new way of shape Do you happen to have a mock-up to show us or Examples of other things that you've designed or maybe I do not have that with me at the moment I might have some pictures on my phone that I can fan through but I'm not sure those would help you a lot at this Okay, I'm just I guess I'm just getting trying to get a picture of this what it would the kind of the final product What that would look like? tube steel columns Channel stringers for the parlance to attach to with the metal roof and that gives them an at the alternate X and ample structure to Attach their solar panels to I believe they're going to be somewhere around 750 pounds neighborhood, but Spread out over a sure the large area. Okay Three pounds of square foot, okay Any other questions Okay Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. Yeah And this is a public hearing So if anyone would like to speak for or against this issue, you're certainly welcome to take the microphone now You'll have three minutes. I don't have any cards in front of me. Yes, sir That'd be great if you could approach the microphone and then state your name and address for the record and before you leave if you Wouldn't mind filling out a card to that would be very helpful. So name and address, please Okay, I need to raise my hand your name and address please for the record. Yes My name is Leon Tribble and I live just down the street. I Live at 3411 Hummingbird. Thank you, sir. Let's get you sworn in. All right Under penalty of perjury Do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide or any statement you make before this board is complete? True and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability. Yes, I do. Thank you. You may proceed. I Have I have lived at 3411 Hummingbird for almost 48 years We moved to Denton in 1969 November of 69. So we're coming up on almost 48 years and Over that last 48 years the neighborhood has changed somewhat and we've got a lot of good people a lot of good neighbors there and and I enjoy your Friendship and companionship close by I have nothing against you at all. I Don't have anything against carports either When I first got the the notice that there was going to be a hearing about the variance I did not know what a solar panel support was solar panel support structure I'm not too too keen on on Modern computers and stuff But I was able to look up on the computer to see what a support structure was and I found several And I had no idea of what was going up. I found some that were about three feet high off the ground and I have seen some of those that are grown and my main concern was is this going to be an attractive nuisance Something that the kids in the neighborhood are going to climb on and something that they could get hurt on also those support structures that I have seen that are Two or three feet off the ground. They all seem to be Situated above a rock Surface they have rocks underneath them and so the grass won't grow and that sort of thing And I was concerned about that because I did not want anything in our neighborhood That would make our property values go down Over the years I have seen our property values and our taxes go up and every time our Property values go up taxes go up Every time property values go down taxes go up. So whatever it is, that's not going to make too much but That that was my main opposition is I was concerned that there was going to be something built in the front yard Or to the side of the driveway that was going to be about knee-high That would be hard to mow underneath or you're going to have to spray it with insecticides Which we don't need in our system anymore But since I found out that you're looking at a carport I Would just hope that if this variance is approved that it's a little bit upscale as to pose as what is across the street So I don't want I don't want the variance approved if you 're going to put up some junk. I Have enough junk at my own house I have a question for you then because and thank you very much. This is very helpful and You filled out a response form and in it you wrote I'm not sure just what a solar panel support structure is you did your homework you came to the meeting your your you learned But you also clicked or checked that you were opposed to the request Are you still opposed to the request are you have you changed your mind on this? I just want to be clear for the record I'm not sure okay Yeah, no my wife wants one I just want to be clear because what because I see this and I hear your concerns Yeah, it sounds like those concerns have been addressed and so are you still opposed or have you are you neutral to the request? Are you because that's going to play out on how our overall map looks we have right next door to me we have a house that has just recently put solar panels on the roof and And that's fine if they want to do that as far as a variance to the city code I Don't know about that because if you grant a variance for this situation Next month somebody's going to want to come up, and they're going to want to put something else up and next time it'll be something else and if we the reason that we have these codes now is because they work and And they keep the neighborhood up as much as we can so I'm kind of apprehensive about changing the code For anything and yet I'm not opposed to a carport So I guess I'm kind of neutral on the situation. I've changed my mind Okay, since I found out what it was okay, because I didn't know what we've talked about it first. That's very helpful Okay, so I'm neutral on the fact so so I hope Julie if you could Are you able to update that map at all before we kind of open it up for discussion? I Can't update the map however In order to approve a various a supermajority is required anyway So whether there's 20% opposition or not a supermajority would be required anyway. I'm just thinking visually Some of us are visual That's fine, that's just fine. Thank you. Did you have anything else you want to add? It's going to be me high out in the front yard, and I'd be opposed to it But since it's a carport, I'm going to be up I'm neutral on the situation. Thank you, sir. Yes This is a public hearing so if anyone would like to there you go approach the microphone And if you could state your name and address for the record . I'll get you sworn in Alastin ruffin 7566 FM 1758 Bowie, Texas Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide or any statement you make before this board is complete True and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability I do okay go ahead Okay, so I mean it's it's simple the reason for the carport is there is not enough roof surface on south or east or west Facing to make it work. It is a system designed to meet her base load There will be some buyback on DME side and all that does is free up the grid for everybody else so it's So yes, it is a carport there will be cars under it all you 're going to see is a trailing edge of panels That's all you'll see you'd need I mean it's going to be as high as the roof, right? So you'd need a drone with a camera to see the panels So We don't do ugly work We have a great relationship with Denton our company does you can drive around you can see our work. We've done Six or seven systems in Denton right now one from giant ground mounts to Most of them are roof mounts We we don't we don't want to leave the customer unhappy. They don't like it. We fix it Never had any complaints from any of the neighbors. They've actually wanted to sign up so I Understand variances. I understand code violations things like that This is going to help Denton. It's not just for them. They 're not doing it just for them doing it for everyone so I just When it comes vote time just just think about your kids, you know Where's that grid going to be in the next 30 years if people like the barn hills get denied? Do you happen to have any Images you could share with the group on the phone. Do you want to bring up the house image? I can kind of give them an idea of where everything's gonna go So I do have a question yes over here you said that the full loan how many square feet would you with it required to? Cover the full load. I don't know what that means There you go panels are 290 watt panels apiece They'll have inverters AC inverters which rapid shutdowns So if somebody happens to climb on and start messing with something no one's gonna die But the something like this The carport he designed we're going almost edge to edge with it, but still staying within fire code So square footage square footage on this is a total square footage Maybe a thousand square feet. I mean, it's just whatever the size of the roof is on the carport Right, so a thousand square feet how much of the existing roof would be Sufficient for solar panels to obtain that solar okay well You can't put anything facing north correct the back side of the house where is the most roof roof surface, right? That's all north that you can't do that one There's no credits DME says no and your system will never work like it's supposed to but on the south side How much on the south side? There's there's enough room there to get 16 16 of the 35 proposed panels to go up there how many square footage is that See quick math There's an app for that I'm terrible with math. Where's my kit? There it is. Okay So Roughly 640 square feet so not even that out of a thousand 640 can be on that existing roof. Yeah, and that they think that that's too much. Let me see Yeah Yeah, the pan the panels themselves are 66 inches long by 40 inches wide So smaller than a sheet of plywood and there'll be eight across two high on The south facing roof and then everything else will be on the carport if it's approved And if this if this structure is approved would that basically take them off the electrical grid they'd they'd have no no Everything that we do is grid tied unless they opt out. Sorry I know you mean yeah, because you said the DME could buy back But I'm sorry, what would it meet there would it basically meet their their needs for electricity on a day-to-day basis? Yes after the energy when we come in we do whole home energy audit Figure out what your annual consumption is and build a system to that size Did they do this one at a hundred percent? Do you know? Do they size it at a hundred percent or like? I? Mr.. Barnhill mr.. Barnhill can you come forward please and sorry that no this is this is helpful So we're gonna speak into the microphone so we can get it on record for everyone, and I got to swear you in - I know Okay, so name and record please 29. I mean burden and then okay Under penalty of perjury do you swear or affirm that any testimony or information you provide or any statement you make before this board is Complete true and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability yes, thanks I'm gonna have this memorized so the time this meetings over it's okay. Go ahead so okay What we say when we were negotiating this in the beginning and they came in and did the survey They said Theoretically you probably won't have an electric bill anymore But in reality in the heat of the summer you know You may be spending 40 or 50 bucks as opposed to the 600. We're spending now and and I caught up you know To some folks that have gotten solar panels and and you know we just kind of discuss it and they're saying that's true You know you just have to have enough You know if you start cutting down What you can put it you know you're getting less electricity so But with what they propose Again, he said theoretically there. You know you should be free of an electric bill, but in reality You know maybe a couple hundred dollars during peak usage days. Yeah, something so I had a question Your wife who wants to carport did she like the one on the end not the one across from us, but Yeah, okay, but the other one and we we went down and looked at that and we've you know we won't like that like the one across the street from us I Met because I was I was at your property today getting a better look at this and what the one across the street was really noticeable All right, the what as I was driving Your wife said make you know keep a lookout for the other one at the end And I I almost missed it because it just kind of blended it and blends right. Yeah, yeah It's not a nice or at all Okay Are there any questions of The applicants or the speakers And the solar shingles they are so expensive and inefficient You'd have to have a roof twice that size to get even a third of what we want what we're proposing I just figured the technology will come down. It will it will it's getting there. It's just that Elon Musk is a good salesman. I Have a question for you, sir Mr. Serra may I be recognized would you just point out to us where that setback would be the about 10-foot? Setback about where where it would come to on that picture there It would extend like that's essentially a three-car driveway, yes, sir It would cover all that much with the whole driveway I Don't even think it would cover that I think you maybe two cars with one just right there at curb level Hanging out the back of it Is it good? Sorry, go ahead. No, no, no you have to recognize me Who was first? He was first Not sure Where's Danny one of it? If you if you push three cars If you push three cars up against the house Because that a driveway will accommodate cross not down right so the whole go all the way across. Yes, sir That's what the seven feet on the sides for So I guess the yeah proposed I Miss us a lot. Could you go back to that other picture? Do you know I'm sorry, ma'am I'm just trying to visualize this from the neighbors perspective So are you gonna follow the lines of that Eve that? That triangle there are you or you come in outside of that or inside of that? Where's your carport? By this picture Sir, sir, if you can get to the mic Can you go to the microphone and can he maybe use a cursor or something or the mouse and identify yourself, too? Okay, okay. Okay. Hold on we're gonna take a break. I need you to if you could please Just one more time for the record. Just your name again. I know you are And I don't have to swear you in again. It's okay. Is there a way that he can use a cursor so he can There so you can speak into the microphone No, I was wondering that the thank you pitch of the roof is it going to fall exactly the pitch? That's coming off the front is going to be larger smaller The driveway is has a fairly decent slope downhill towards the street And the carport is going to pitch that direction It's going to be a single slope. It will it will the front edge of it will attach to the house right along here below the eave but above the garage doors and It will be a basically a flat structure with a slope. Oh sloping towards the street To about where this joint is in the concrete over to this side of the side driveway When you say it was architecturally compatible, I guess I was picturing It was going to capture that pitch of the eaves and come out like this. Well, it's gonna be flat For their best use of the solar panels. It's better if it's flat I understand pitch then they end up losing the ability to use one side. I understand Thank you Thank you all metal with trim trim that actually matches the color of the trim of the house It'll just kind of blend right in with it. Thank you. And I think it's important to to point out to your question Mr. Higgins how far out to the side it was going to extend that they are the applicant is requesting a Variance into the side yard But it is that neighbor to the side that also wrote in support of this request and there as I understand it They actually own and reside in that property and the people across the street with the other carport Yeah, mr. Saka Mr. Saka I really quickly how many square feet is the car port? Did a thousand square feet is it 1200 square feet is it That isn't written on my drawing but I can tell you in just a moment 737 and a half square feet And Since they're looking at like a thousand square feet of panels they're still going to put some on the house on the side that they can use and Then they're going to use the carport structure to support the rest of them That's the plan right? Yeah, that's the plan. Okay. Any other questions? Very helpful. Thank you. I think you can take a seat, but you might have to come up later. So stay tuned Yeah, you bet. Thank you. This is a public hearing. So if there's anyone who would like to speak for or against this Proposal or this request you have a few minutes at the microphone Anyone Okay, seeing none I will close the public hearing correct legal counsel We're closing the public hearings and opening it up to discussion. Okay, I'm gonna close the public hearing now at 516 and we can open it up for discussion Can we discuss I think we can just go right on into it. So mr. Saka I Would say I'm not in favor in most particularly because I think if you look at the criteria Which guides us that is special circumstances or conditions that apply to the parcel for which the variance is sought which Are peculiar to the parcel and not generally to other parc els in the area. I think that's a no I think You know the granting of the variance will not be detrimental to the public welfare injurious to others Well, I don't know even the gentleman that came up here said he wasn't Sure, is that just gonna open the door to have a whole bunch of variances for more carports? and The granting of the variance is necessary for the reasonable use of the parcel. I would say it's not I Would also Say that what we are really talking about is a is a carport the granting of a carport Not the granting of a solar panel Even though that's a great roost to you know, great thing to discuss and I'm so totally in favor of car of solar panels I just don't think looking at the neighborhood in general and the fact that two carports were Mistakenly Developed in that neighborhood should allow us to grant a variance for all Carports now if I had a hundred percent of the neighbors or ninety percent of the neighbors saying yeah Go ahead and we want to put carports all over the place. I think that's a little different. So I'm gonna vote against it Yeah, please Just something to add to Sokos comments is that I would even make it a more basic classification is that It's not really a variance to a carport. It's a variance to any structure So technically or let me say theoretically you could board up that structure in the future Not saying that these applicants are going to but maybe it is possible that if The variance is granted here and then subsequent property owners in the neighborhood Some neighbor could do that and so you can actually have an enclosed structure because this is only a variance for the Distance requirements for the setbacks. That's my question Yeah, mr. Higgins I Really want to call for miss barnhill on the effort and expense and trouble they went to develop this and to be exacted and it's Presentation and it really is it really is well done. I think I Wish I could support it. I but I can't and I'll make my arguments in the following way First of all, I agree with mr. Commissioner Saco when you go through the criteria, it does not meet the criteria and I'm Inclined to think like mr. Tribble thinks you know, I mean the camel gets his nose under the tent and then Even though if a gets it that doesn't mean B should get it there's sort of a bias to help be get it because they got it and So I would that would be a problem for me second I would Bring bring up what mr. Mangitha mentioned which is that while we're talking a lot about solar panels and the desir ability of that That is not the governing consideration here. The governing consideration is the variance and Really when I look at that and I see the scale and I drove I drove the site today It's been about 10 minutes looking at the scale of that that is really Really is large. That's not really consistent with what happens in the neighborhood so That's that's a problem with me When you Drive the site and you look at the three Car carport right across the street which does extend way out now This was going to extend way out to it's a shame that they 'd be right now right across from each other like that but that's going to create I really think Something there's not complimentary to the neighborhood or to the values the property in the neighborhood and finally what I would say is I Looked at the vote here of the neighbors and I realized that Miss Barnhill has included two positive votes in her in her applicant in her packet but when you look at the Ones the neighbors that have submitted in response to the solicitation from the city The vote was the vote was five to two against now, mr. Barn hill I mean, sorry, mr. Triple B becoming ambivalent on the deal . So if I scratch that It's still a vote of four to two against and it's not just that it's that vote neighbors I think want to support neighbors my neighbor down the street wanted to do something I'd like to let them do help them do it and do what they want to do So it says to me that on balance there of those that voted There there is a concern about its impact upon the neighborhood so with all compliment to miss Barnhill and What she wants to do? And how she's presented it. I feel like I have to vote against it I'm sorry. No because what the the the public hearing is closed now. Thank you Mr. Surratt This is one of those decisions that I used to deal with with my children and with my students is that my emotions tell me one way and the rules tell me another way and I also want to support it and I'm also concerned that my emotions for Alternative energy are not one of the criteria's that we can consider I would say that if the board decides to decline That I would like I really think that that this is something that's needed in the city that more momentum for this and that you should go to your council representative and Look at doing some site designs and you know some sort of codes How do we put solar collectors where there's not enough space? I have a south-facing garage, and I'm waiting for the technology to arrive so that it fits the space of my garage Then I'm going to reroute my garage put solar panels on it, and that's what I'm waiting for You know, but I would love to see it. I'd love to see that Energy because it's something I really want in the city so go to the council see what kind of site design what kind of ? things that we can do But anyway, that's so I Have some reflections and So I'm actually going to disagree with staff's interpretation of some of the special circumstances Because I see for example the staff argues that Okay, so section 35 3 6 b 2 DDC blah blah Section a or it says the subject property does not have special circumstances or conditions that do not apply generally to other parcels in the neighborhood I'm going to disagree with that the reason I'm going to disagree with that is because this is actually an owner occupied property There's a lot of rentals on the street These are the owners of the property the people who have There are the map did not reflect it and I wish that it would have been more accurate this evening But those who support this also live like directly across the street and in visual they're going to see this it's going to impact Arguably their properties more than any of the other properties on the street and and so I think that this does have a special circumstance because its owner occupied and The owner is seeking out solar panels Which is something we as a city have set out as a goal to to make easier for our residents to do and And I don't see us Working with the resident in this so this is a very special circumstance owner occupied wants a solar panel it fits in with the Denton 2030 plan and to your point mr. Mengita you you said it's not necessarily the solar panels that were against but the placement of them I Hear your point however. This is an estate these either there are established trees all up and down This this street. This is an older home with with older trees on it It's kind of silly to put up solar panels if you have to cut down trees to do it kind of defeats the purpose right and So so I hear that it's not a sub at the solar plans but placement of them But I mean when we have people in the in the city center who who want to improve their property And the city's not really willing to work with them on that even though the city has said we we need to make this a priority I see a real disconnect there, so I disagree with staffs interpretation of that and secondly part B What you know they're trying to create visually uniform neighborhoods? There are other existing Carports on the street one is done very nicely That I almost I drove past and I almost missed it and so when it's done nicely it can create Some some uniformity in the neighborhood because there are already existing Structures so so I disagree with staffs interpretation of this I am in support of this and I think it's Really unfortunate that we're making the applicant jump through so many hoops when we have explicitly said as a city that this is something That we want to to work on and and become a greener city And so so I'm actually in support of this and wish we can make it easier for people in the future So other discussion Mr. House I'm gonna have to agree of mr. Sacco and gentlemen to my right I Don't think that this meets the special circumstances And I don't think that just because the homeowner versus a very heavily rental neighborhood is meeting special circumstances That's like saying well. I own my car, but you lease so I get the right of way it doesn't work for me And I understand that they've got these large old-growth trees, and I'm not saying they should come down But they maybe could be thinned quite a bit Maybe they could get some solar panels on their roof instead of all the ones they want and not get a hundred percent But get some of them off their belt. There's just options seems to me that Can be met within the codes as they stand And just because there's two carports one that was permitted by mistake Okay, and one that was has seems almost from the description from staff almost like a scoff-law Who's in an agreement that yes my neighbor across the street should have a carport like mine So then next month I can come and get a variance for mine too that I've been building since 2003 and rebuilding and rebuilding and rebuilding so Their support kind of doesn't carry it for me considering that they're already Violating city ordinance and have been since a long time back and they keep rebuilding it and they keep adding on to it And they keep changing it every time they buy or sell a boat or a car or whatnot so I'm a little concerned that while I believe that these residents have every intention of building a solar panel structure The question does become a concern of what about the next person that comes in wants to get a variance for their extended Okay, so it's a concern for me And I don't see anything that meets the guidelines for a variance in this case while it is said and I do like the idea of solar panels like everybody else I Don't see anything that says to me that They can't live in their house without this solar panel array the way that they want to build it right now Mr. Sokka, did you have your hand up? I was gonna make a motion that we deny the The variance as requested Second The first from mr. Sokka a second from mr. House and the motion is to deny the request Is there any further discussion before we take a vote? All in favor of denial Five And I I guess I would then I guess voting against the denial That's two so the vote carries five to two and the variance is denied Requires so Required can you interpret that for me? It requires a super majority so Can you can you speak I want to hear what your answer is action taken by this board requires a super majority So we're a hung jury or something. Is that what that means? I'll make it easy. Yeah, let me I'm gonna make another motion I'll make a motion. We approve it, which means if we have a superman now, we already voted what right so So I want to hear your answer. The motion was to deny The variance request now if mr. Sokka wants to make a motion to approve staff's recommendation It's my understanding that would not be a denial that would be Affirmation of staffs recommendation. Okay. I'm gonna rephr ase So so we voted it was five to however was not a supermajor ity therefore the motion does not Carry is that correct? Well it if I can interrupt The super majority is to approve it to approve only To deny it does it the supermajority does not? They don't think you need a supermajority Jobbing is me hard The reason why a variance requires a supermajority in under these circumstances it's to approve only Right. So by the five to vote to deny the request is that vote? Doesn't approve it doesn't approve it. No, because it's not an affirmative vote to approve if we did if somebody did a motion to approve it Which is probably what I should have done Which and then we got a second and then we voted against it Then it would be dead. So that's where the confusions, but I think it's a text. I'm just interested mr. Sokka's Larry names so suck suck. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. I interpreted his to be a denial of Staffs recommendation, but you're actually saying you're proving staffs recommendation. So that doesn't that is what I was saying. Yes So that does not say deny the variance the great variance, right? So where we at? So that that motion carries Because it doesn't require a supermajority. That's correct It's only the change in the ordinance that grant that the variance ordinance requires a supermajority Prove it would require a six one vote but to deny it we just did Is it yes six one or five two, oh wait, we've got six people so Clear as mud Be a five one vote, okay So in a nutshell we've approved staffs recommendation of denial Yeah, that's good she was like, yeah sure Okay, sorry, okay, and I lost all my notes Okay, thank you. All right that brings us to the end of our agenda any concluding items is there anything we'd like to see it future ZBA meetings or any other items we need to Mention it this time Okay Mr. Sarrat not for us, but I would I mean I am in favor of more of this and and before I feel comfortable with Granting variances. I'd like the council to weigh in on what they'd like things to look at so, you know I take a message to council that will probably more and more of these and I Agree, and I think it's something that the planning and zoning board should probably look at into the planning department Yeah, you guys been you know under while you got a lot of a lot of things that you have to deal with every day But we have a dent in 2030 plan and we're almost to 2020. Yeah So we like if we want to further these goals. These are the types of things that we need. Okay, we have it in our plan How are we gonna get there? I would recommend the staff take that to PNZ or council so that we have a plan for how these things supposed to look and and I'd be happy to write a letter to Encourage that because I don't like turning down folks I just have to stick I feel I have to stick by the rules, but I'm my hearts are with them, you know, and So I if I can make another comment to you on this to me is was has To me had absolutely nothing to do with the solar panels. Yeah, that's the problem to me I'm fully in support of solar panels. We'll live for every neighborhood damn But when you're building new structures to incorporate a solar panel I have a problem with that if it varies from the ordinance Sounds like something for future staff and PNZ and council. Yeah, I'd love to see them come up with a consistency Is there anything else? I Don't I know we've always voted in the past to adjourn the meeting but is that a thing that we have to do is that Just kind of yeah, we do. Okay. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn the meeting? Mr. House second mr. Cole all in favor All right