I need a few minutes to go over those.
So I'm like to give a motion. I move to approve the minutes
. I second. All in favor.
Hi. Okay. Next item will be we're receiving a report and
having a discussion on.
You want to skip the season's we have people. Can you
announce that we have a quorum and then. Oh, I'm sorry.
We do have a quorum here this evening. Okay. I'm going to
be.
Receive a report and hold a discussion on no parking any
time restriction on the south side of Congress Street from
Bolivar to Carol.
Thank you, Chair. My name is free time.
I'm the traffic engineer for the city and the item, the
first item I'm talking about is has been on the matrix for
a while and it's been talked.
It has not been an open item discussed and I think we got
into some deep discussion last time and I think we got
pulled out by tracing that something has to be in the
agenda.
So right now this item is just for discussion purposes. We
need to get some feedback as to how we can proceed and how
do we want to proceed in the future regarding such issues.
This is parking along Congress Street. Congress Street
between Carol Boulevard and Bolivar is real is narrow as
compared to the rest of the one up until.
But between Carol and Bolivar, it's width is approximately
29, 29 feet.
And I think what's happening there is if you look at both
the corners, there are some commercial parking lots and
especially 7 Mile Cafe has a lot of parked cars and patrons
that visit this.
These businesses have on street parking is used by those
patrons as well as there are some residential houses on the
north side.
So this stretch of Congress between Bolivar and Carol gets
pretty crowded.
You can't see that on the aerial right now.
But if you get down to the street level, you can see there
's barely any space to move around when two cars are really
parked next to each other.
So typically what is required by a fire code is we need 26
feet of street width minimum if we are allowing parking on
one side of the street and 32 feet if we allow parking on
both sides.
Currently, parking is allowed on both sides of the street
for this segment.
And this is where the issue is, it's 29 feet wide but the
minimum required is 32.
What the fire code takes into account is 6 feet parking on
either side, which is 12 feet and then 20 foot fire lane in
the middle.
So that's why it's 32 is required.
We only have 29.
And in order for this street to function properly or
provide access to emergency vehicles, we need to either
restrict parking on one side or, you know, think of other
solutions as far as how we can have certain sections
restricted so that people can actually get enough passing
distance.
Not the whole entire stretch but enough passing distance
for emergency vehicles.
So it is a discussion item.
We don't expect any decision on your behalf but we would
like to talk about.
There are a lot of these requests to us.
And as part of the small area plan near UNT that's
currently under study, they will look at issues like this
around the UNT area but there are certain pockets outside
of UNT area and this is a good example, Congress between
Carol and Bolivar, that we're experiencing such issues.
And part of the reason is the type of land use that's at
the corner right there.
But if we get direction from commission tonight, we can
move forward, notify all the business owners, residents to
come in the next meeting, hear what they have to see and
then move this item forward.
And so I can, that's the end of my presentation but I think
if you have any questions I'll answer.
>> So next course of action we run a meeting.
>> Next course of action we will notify the residents as
well as the businesses about where the commission will be
considering parking restrictions either on one side or some
options or some type and have feedback from them.
At which point we'll recommend, we'll recommend staff will
recommend restricting parking on one side based on the fire
.
>> Is there a particular side that's going to be more
favorable?
>> That's a very good question.
That's something that we need to get feedback from the
residents.
I'm pretty sure the residents that live on the north side
want their side but again, that's why we need some feedback
.
>> Sorry, did you just? >> Well, I just, it maybe makes
sense for people to be closing, parking on the side where
the businesses are because that's where they're going to.
I think that maybe would be clear.
I don't know.
But I agree, it's really, it gets really crowded.
>> It does get crowded.
The options you were describing, I think you said something
about being able to either prohibit parking on one side or
the other, but you also said maybe there are some other
types of ways that could be addressed that would allow the
passage of larger vehicles such as a fire vehicle.
What are those other ways you're thinking of?
>> Correct.
One of the things that we worked with the fire department
on Texas Street is anything that's 150 feet from these
cross streets where they really have enough access.
So 150 feet from here as well as here, it's okay not to
restrict any parking but restrict parking in the middle of
the street between the 250 feet because they can actually
serve 150 feet from the side streets.
So there would be a smaller area that would require
restriction.
That way if they have to deploy a vehicle, if they have to,
if you look at fire trucks, I think it's more of a
deployment space that they need 20 feet when they are
addressing, you know, any fires or emergencies in this
particular area or neighborhood for businesses or even
residents and businesses north and south of Congress.
So in order for them to deploy is more important as opposed
to getting the vehicle through into this area.
So we can look at options as, you know, we can not restrict
parking towards the end closer to the business but then
allow restriction in the middle of the street.
>> Then if we did that, we would, because how far back is
it 20 feet from a stop sign?
>> 30 feet.
>> 30 feet from a stop sign.
And you said that that way you could allow 150 feet of
parking but then that would mean you've got 120 feet of
parking just kind of at each end.
>> That is right.
So we're talking about 10 cars, I mean 20, yeah.
>> And then no parking in the middle of the street.
>> No parking in the middle of the street.
We haven't looked at all the options.
It's just an open discussion at this point.
But we will look at options when we come back.
>> When I think the question is if we, you know, remove
parking there, where does it push parking to?
And I would think Boulevard Street, right, and probably
towards, you know, heading south towards Boulevard Street
is probably where we'll see it.
And usually there's space there, but is that, there's
parking on both sides all the way along that street,
correct?
>> Correct.
Boulevard is, yeah, parking on both sides.
>> I mean, and people may now.
>> I think it's no parking on the west side.
>> It is on one side.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah, west side's no parking.
>> Yeah, and cars, even with the situation now, cars will
back up all the way.
Actually, if you go back to that street view, cars will
back up fairly close to, I don't know, what's the next
street on the south there?
Is that?
>> It's Parkway, I think.
>> Parkway.
Yeah, they'll get kind of close to it, so, but it's not too
far.
I've never seen it go all the way back to Parkway, but it
gets somewhat close.
>> So yeah, that's, those are the pros and cons we need to
look at.
Also, if you remove on-street parking, that will reduce the
friction of driving vehicles.
That means the speeds might go up a little bit, and there's
always a give and take if you do one thing, there are going
to be consequences.
>> Yeah.
>> Casca, there was a little, the curb, I think, cut there,
and there was a little drive that seemed to go to nowhere.
Could like the, is that something that that property owns,
or it seems like up to the business, if yeah.
No, not there, further, yeah, further south over here.
I think right up here, there's a spot, yeah, where you can
see.
>> Yeah, this is a curb way that goes into this.
>> Can you turn it a little more?
I think it's even further, yeah, go back to the left.
Yeah, keep going to the left.
>> This way?
>> No, no, no, other way, other way.
I think down there, if you look by that car, see right
there, past the sign right there?
Okay, that does go into the lot, okay.
>> Yeah, I think it is the gate that opens up.
>> Okay, I couldn't tell from the angle.
>> I'm not sure, I mean, I do want to see this come back,
and I do think we need to restrict parking, but I've
noticed that the Chamber of Commerce parking lot,
particularly on Sunday mornings when Seven Mile is packed,
the Chamber of Commerce parking lot is underutilized.
And so when we move, since I think we should move to some
type of parking restriction,
then I think that we should do a better job of advertising
the Chamber of Commerce lot so that people are aware.
I know that the cupboard already has signs that that's
cupboard parking only over there, which is absolutely fair.
But I've also noticed people driving around trying to find
a place but completely forgetting about the Chamber of
Commerce.
>> Which lot is that?
>> The one that's on Carroll Boulevard.
>> This one?
>> Mm-hm.
>> Is that something the city's done before, has done
little signs that are directions both from the parking lot
and two other places?
Because we had a, I know a group of citizens were just
together talking about local traffic safety issues.
And one of the things people brought up is how underutil
ized that the lot at Carroll, just south on Carroll and Hick
ory is.
There's that huge lot where the- >> County lot?
>> Yeah, is that a county lot?
>> Yeah. >> Where, and that's where the Saturday morning
stuff is.
But the rest of the time that lot is like 90% almost all
empty.
And we talked about how that's a five minute walk to the
center of the square, but very few people know.
And just another example, maybe how some signs that say,
you know, even just saying on that lot, five minutes to
square,
and encouraging people to start using it who always tell me
there's no parking near the square.
There's that huge lot that's almost always empty.
>> I think we have to be careful.
We advertise it because I'm not sure if we can say if it's
city parking lot, we can say that.
But if it's not public property, if it's privately owned,
then it becomes an issue as to where we're directing people
to go park.
For example, this chamber's, chamber of commerce lot, I don
't know if we can actually,
that might be a legal thing that we look at is can we
direct public parking there?
>> The chamber is supported by the city of Denton as we
know it is.
>> Okay. >> Okay.
>> So that might be an option.
>> There is a map that economic development put together.
It's just for the downtown area though that has parking and
like how long it will take you to walk there.
>> Oh, that's great.
>> Five minutes, ten minutes.
I think the chamber of commerce has it on their website as
well.
I don't know if their parking lot is included.
I haven't checked it that closely, but there is a map
available that tells you what parking lots are available
and how long it will take you to walk them to the square.
>> That should be an app.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that something we could take up is discussing
something like signage and the possibilities?
Because I have seen that, you see that in a lot of downtown
areas, signage to different areas that tell you this
direction
and even tell you walk on the street.
>> There are parking signs.
>> Yeah.
>> We have parking signs.
>> But also direction signs that are really service like
advertisements for busy areas.
I haven't seen any of those.
>> I think we're done engineering the way finding program.
So we're done with what signage, with branding we want to
do and they are implementing now as we speak.
So you'll soon start seeing that program being implemented.
But we did go through the whole design and branding effort
for way finding signage.
>> Anything else on Congress, on this street here?
Any more questions?
Move on to the next item.
>> I have a question in my direction regarding installation
of additional pavement markings to address speeding
concerns along Mack Drive between McKinney and Paisley.
>> All right.
>> McKinney and Paisley.
>> Let me zoom out and get to this location.
So we're talking about this segment of Mack Drive between
McKinney and Paisley.
If you look at this particular segment, which is Audreau
Lane in this area, this is our main arterial in the area,
but Mack Drive currently functions as a collector street.
And we received a couple of concerns from a resident
talking about speed and how Mack Drive is being used as a
cut through, especially during peak hours to get to Paisley
and north of Paisley.
And one of the things is this Lee Elementary is right at
the corner of Paisley and Mack.
So once we received complaints, we conducted a speed survey
and the 85th percentile speed is not about 30 miles an hour
.
So we looked at two days worth of data.
I know it's not a whole lot and we'll do something more
when the school starts, but it was under 30 miles an hour.
And what we thought, since this is a school zone area, it
might be a better idea to do some sort of pavement markings
to define and identify lanes.
If you currently look at how wide the street is, it's
between 38 and 40 feet.
And when you're actually driving on it without any parked
cars, it feels like an open area that you can just be in
the middle of the street and drive at a higher speed.
So what we're looking at or staff is recommending is start,
it would be a phase process and we'll look at different
options.
The first thing is start with double yellow line in the
center and stripe a center yellow line.
And then if needed, if we still continue to see later in
the year that there are still speeding concerns and if we
think that the speed is getting closer to 30 miles an hour
or higher,
then we might end up striping the parking lanes.
And something similar was done on Nottingham, which was a
wide street.
I think Nottingham was 44 feet wide.
This is close to 40 feet.
And on Nottingham, let me just zoom in if it allows me to.
So if you see, this is the parking lane where cars are
parked on either side and then there was a little space for
buffer.
I think those were two foot buffers on either side.
And then there was a center yellow line.
So something similar type of marking eventually will happen
if we don't see any reduction.
But this has helped a lot in this area and people actually
stick to their lane.
They don't -- before it was an open pavement, everyone was
traveling at high speed.
Now they tend to remain in their lane and not go into it.
So we have seen reductions and research has shown that
speed reduces.
So that's why staff has recommended that we move forward
with striping the double yellow for now and then parking
lanes if required striping.
The reason this was also included here is I wanted to give
an opportunity if there are any residents that want to come
in and talk about anything.
>> Yeah, like two people signed up.
>> Okay.
So that way we get to hear from them and we can go for that
from there.
>> Okay.
>> Back up toward Lee School, is it a flashing light or is
it just a sign that says 20 miles an hour during school
hours there?
Do they have a flashing light there or is it just a sign?
>> You mean a school zone?
>> Right.
>> Good question.
I think it's just a sign, but let me confirm.
>> That's what I remember.
>> Yeah, there is no school zone.
It must be before this.
Yeah, this is the sign.
Speed limit 20.
So there is no flashing light, it's just a sign, but this
defines, actually defines that in that area the speed limit
is down to 20 miles an hour.
So right when the school property begins, that's when that
zone starts.
So yeah, we haven't necessarily received any complaints
from the school yet.
So we'll talk to them and see if there are any issues that
they've noticed.
>> Okay.
Yeah, but a couple of people that are going to speak, first
we'll call up Patricia St. Helene.
Yes, ma'am.
You need to be close to the microphone since this is a
recorded meeting and state your name and address and we'll
give you three minutes.
>> Hi, I'm Patricia St. Helene on the 305 Mack Drive.
I don't know who you were turning when they went, but they
speed through there so fast.
There's children.
I've gotten hit by just the car turning the corner.
I live 150 feet from a stop sign and got hit to pull toward
and pull and park by the side of my curb.
My son's car parked on the curb there.
People flying down that hill and ran right into him and he
was a drunk driver.
Plus the person in the house in front of me has gotten
their vehicle hit.
Even the one single car garages have three cars sitting in
their driveways because we're so in fear of our cars
getting hit out there.
And I mean they turn the corner and it's just like he
demonstrated.
It's fair game.
They just step on the gas and when they're coming down,
they're going as fast as they can so nobody can get in on
these intermittent streets and there's children that play
out there too.
And the one that hit my son's car almost hit the gentleman
up the street's children.
So and we caught the guy by everybody being out and
witnessing this and I've talked to all of my neighbors and
they want something pleased to be done before somebody gets
hurt.
Thank you.
The next Michael Montgomery.
Good evening.
Michael Montgomery 2013 Summer Wind Court.
I live right at the corner of the first cul-de-sac off of
Mack Drive.
Just really to echo what she said really the topography
from the elementary school down to McKinney.
It's a pretty steep grade along with two.
It's almost a little bit of an S curve.
So I do think that double yellow line would really help
especially with the right of way being so wide.
So appreciate it.
All right.
Thank you.
So we're just.
Are we just recommend that you go ahead.
Yes.
Forward with your paint.
Great.
Does anyone have any other discussion.
I don't think we need a motion for that one.
No.
Then finally we have a report in the discussion and make a
recommendation to city council to authorize traffic
engineers to restrict parking in front of the bus stops
within city limits.
We actually get a recommendation on the last one.
Well it didn't ask.
But let's back up.
It's OK.
Just provide your recommended approval of installing
payment markings.
So yes.
Does the committee.
I would motion for approval.
Moving forward striping the lanes.
Second.
All in favor.
Aye.
Thank you.
All right.
Item D.
Is.
Let me move out of here.
There's no specific location but I do want to show one that
was in there.
We're here.
This item deals with bus stops.
DCTA.
Last late last year they commissioned the study to look at
their operation of all their buses and trains and find out
you know operationally are there any efficiencies that can
be improved.
Are there any changes that can be made and how they are
functioning.
Based on that study they they decided to come up with new
bus routes as well as change some of the old routes
slightly to capture more passengers as well as cover all
the routes that they have.
They see a demand and growth.
And so based on that they came back and early this year
they applied for permits and new bus stops within the city
and all these were issued.
What happened at certain locations primarily on residential
streets and smaller streets and collectors that parking was
already available and curbside parking on street parking
was allowed and then a bus stop was installed there.
What happens is you have people that don't really want to
change how they function on a day to day basis and people
still continue parking in front of the bus stops.
As a result of that DCTA buses were not able to get closer
to the curb.
They had to stop in the traffic lanes.
And worst effect impact was the ADA ramps that the buses
put out or even the kneeling down of the buses or lowering
of the buses.
That was not possible because there was no curb to get on.
So that all these things are impacting the bus stops.
And what we're requesting here is we did talk to the city
attorney's office about what's the best way of addressing
this.
Do we need a new ordinance?
Do we need minor modifications?
And I think what was suggested is the best option at this
time is to modify the municipal code as it exists and
change the authority of the traffic engineer to include a
receipt of the bus stop.
To include restricting parking or creating parking zones in
front of bus stops.
So it's a minor change as it looks.
>> I would call it item number four under 18-3B where it
says establish parking zones of such kind and character and
at such places as he may deem advisable for solid waste
containers and a bus stop.
So what a bus would require anywhere between 40 to 60 feet
to come in and have that area cleared of parking.
And it won't be implemented on all the bus stops only at
locations where we start getting complaints from DCTA.
So it won't be a whitewash or an application throughout the
city.
We won't go out on oak and start doing this in front of and
start removing parking.
But if DCTA feels that some of these bus stops really need
access and we need access to those, then those are the ones
that will be based on their needs.
So we -- it's not something that would be applied citywide.
So what I'm requesting is clarify the municipal code so the
committee would recommend this for moving forward and we
will take this as an ordinance to the city council in the
next meeting and change the municipal code.
So that's what is recommended.
If you have any questions.
>> Will you recommend -- so sometimes -- I'm sure that the
DCTA drivers are very alert to difficulties for their
riders.
But if a citizen notices a stop that needs to have the
parking removed and the DCTA has not recommended it yet,
can the citizen come to the city to ask or should the
citizen go through the DCTA to have them make the ask?
>> I think we're open to having an open dialogue with
everyone.
So once the resident approaches us, that's fine.
We can just contact DCTA and get a response and feedback
from them as to, you know, what do the drivers normally see
?
Is it completely blocked all the time or is it certain
times of the day?
So that way we can work with them to reduce the parking
impact.
So that's how we normally work on it.
>> Could you give a little more explanation about why the
city would not wish to have consistency throughout the city
with standardization of the parking areas around bus stops
instead of just hit and miss?
>> It's not a hit and miss.
This is something that we're starting new.
So what we want to do is actually target something that is
more impactful or is more detrimental for the service first
.
And then eventually if need be, we will go out there and do
that.
But if you look at most of these areas where the bus
services provide services, there are long streets that have
serious parking requirement.
I mean, the demand is huge, especially Oak, Hickory, all
these places.
The bus can pull near the intersection within the 30, 40
feet that it has and that's the bus stop.
We'll leave it alone.
We don't want to extend that parking space all the way 60
or 80 feet longer if the bus can actually pull in closer to
the intersection.
Typically there are near-side and far-side bus stops.
So if that's the case, we require less space.
So it's not that we're changing, intermittently changing
our rules for this.
It's more working to save on street parking as much as we
can in places that's needed.
And work with DCTA to give them the space that they need
for loading and unloading.
So it's more of a balance as opposed to all the bus stops.
We have no parking for 80 feet and most likely the bus only
services that route probably once or twice a day.
So that becomes a -- if the bus route is really not serv
iced that much, then that becomes not a good balance
because you're losing space for most of the day when the
bus is not going to show up.
>> So has the DCTA provided a list of locations then that
they would like to see that --
>> They actually have just one at this point that I'm aware
of.
They might have more that you might know.
But I'm aware of one which is on Riddell and it has been an
issue.
That's what I was trying to show.
Okay. So brand new bus stop in front of this apartment
complex.
So this is a bus stop right here.
I don't think I can zoom in.
Oh, there you go.
This is a brand new shelter bus stop.
And these parked vehicles extend all the way.
So they don't really care if it's a bus stop.
And given the apartment, there is a huge parking demand in
front of the apartment.
So this is the one that I'm aware of that they have
complained about.
And DCTA buses are on the street in the through lane while
they're picking up and dropping off passengers.
And this is one of the locations that they have passengers.
So that's the only complaint we've received.
And this is where it started that we need to look at this
issue.
>> As I understand it, in its recent redesign of some of
the routes and reallocation of buses,
you mentioned Oak Street as an example.
That's a fairly high volume bus route.
>> Correct.
>> And as I understand it, we're not doing any kind of
marking on those bus stops.
Is that right?
>> Those bus stops are mostly at intersections.
So if you look at that intersection at Frye and Oak, that
is fairly open.
There is no parking allowed on that side of the street.
So if parking is not allowed, it doesn't become an issue.
And buses can stop there.
So I think for Oak, it's a one way and bus stops are on the
right side.
Parking is mostly in the south side.
So.
>> Any further discussion?
>> I'd like to move forward with the recommendation that
they --
>> Yes, I would.
I'd like to motion that we recommend moving forward with --
and you said it was an ordinance?
>> It would be an ordinance.
>> Okay.
We move forward with an ordinance that will allow DCTA to
restrict parking.
>> Second.
All in favor say aye.
>> City of --
>> It's not DCTA.
>> I'm sorry.
The city --
>> City traffic engineer.
>> Upon the recommendation of DCTA.
>> Second.
And then all in favor?
The amended.
>> Aye.
>> Okay.
And now we're on to the new business matrix.
>> All right.
Okay.
I tried -- I've left the first item the way it was where I
think economic development
department is working on -- still working on getting a
downtown comprehensive plan.
Part of it, that's how I know.
They're still looking at valet zones and loading zones and
looking at the big picture of what
to do with all of that and how to deal with parking.
I don't have an update on this one, but they're still
looking at it.
It's been on the matrix for a while.
I'm trying to address each of these items as I go, but item
number two and three we already
discussed were on today's agenda.
Item four, I will be collecting -- I've asked police
department to collect speed data once
UNT is in session, especially that would be the most
impactful time.
So we'll collect some data most likely in September.
We'll see most likely first or second week of September
depending on when the school
starts.
>> And you're referring to that?
>> The speed limit on Hickory between Frye and Welch.
>> Thank you.
>> Correct.
Yeah, that portion that doesn't really front the UNT.
We'll see because I suspect that area may be already
lowered speed.
It might be under 20.
And if it is, it doesn't make sense to go through the
process and lower it more.
There were two new things, new items that were added to the
list and I think they're
both -- we'll wait for data collection and I'll bring it
back to traffic safety commission.
One was there were letters from residents for traffic
signal at -- I'm sorry, that was
not the one.
Number six is where they wanted a pedestrian crossing on Ho
bson at Santa Monica Drive across
from the South Lake Park.
We received two letters.
We will collect data once the school starts.
We want to know how many pedestrians are actually using or
are interested in using and what
kind of traffic are we looking at while they are crossing.
There was a crosswalk today.
So once we have that information, we can actually see if
that needs to be enhanced and what
are the options that we have to improve that.
The other request was a traffic signal at Hobson and Forest
Ridge Drive and once the
school starts, we'll get data for that too as well and see
if it fits the law and go
from there.
So those two are on the list.
Are there any other items that -- any other things that you
want to bring up at this point?
Absolutely addressing everything on the matrix and getting
more stuff on the matrix.
Do you have anything?
No, I don't.
Not today.
No one has anything to add to the matrix.
I'm going to move that we adjourn.
I'll second.
Okay.
All in favor?
Aye.
Thank you.
Mr. Chairman?
Yes.
[PAUSE]