WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.190 2018 Public Utilities Board meeting to order. We have a qu 00:00:05.190 --> 00:00:06.400 orum and it's six 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:10.960 o'clock. First items we have are going to be work session 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:12.759 items so we'll start 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:17.239 off with work session item A which is receive a report, 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:18.440 hold a discussion and 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.350 give staff direction regarding a review of the solid waste 00:00:22.350 --> 00:00:23.079 department's landfill 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:27.339 and collection operations by Blue Ridge Services Inc. Good 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:28.480 evening members of the 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:30.410 board my name is Ethan Cox I'm the director of solid waste 00:00:30.410 --> 00:00:31.000 for the city of 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.280 Denton. It's my pleasure to bring this item to you tonight. 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:34.320 We have Blue Ridge 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.570 Services here with us. I'll give them a bit of an 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:38.079 introduction in just a moment 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:39.929 but I want to give you a little bit of background on this 00:00:39.929 --> 00:00:40.600 item before we get 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.469 started. So as most of you are aware over the last 13 to 14 00:00:44.469 --> 00:00:45.039 months we've 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:47.689 basically done what we call kind of a series of diagnostic 00:00:47.689 --> 00:00:48.600 checks on a number 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:51.439 of programs and the general health of the solid waste 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:53.399 department. A number of 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.310 those items like landfill mining, compressed natural gas 00:00:56.310 --> 00:00:57.520 fueling, a lot of 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.140 that's been brought to the board and the council already. 00:01:00.140 --> 00:01:01.000 As we've kind of gone 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.299 through these last few months we wanted to bring in some 00:01:04.299 --> 00:01:05.560 outside assistance to 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:07.769 help us kind of cover the gamut of the remaining operations 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:08.400 that we have out 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.760 there. In addition we also felt it's necessary to kind of 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:12.359 assess our 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:14.900 organizational structure in our staffing for some of our 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:15.599 more critical 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.909 services and so we contract with Blue Ridge Services to 00:01:18.909 --> 00:01:20.079 kind of help us along 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.200 in that manner. The purpose of this was just to do that is 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.079 to take a look at our 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.090 operations and kind of compare us to industry standard. It 00:01:27.090 --> 00:01:28.040 doesn't mean that 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.489 industry standards right and we're incorrect it just simply 00:01:30.489 --> 00:01:31.159 means where do 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:34.099 we fall in terms of other solid waste operations and so the 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:34.959 report that you 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.299 have in front of you tonight is fairly dense. You also will 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:39.400 be provided a copy 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.040 of the full report which is about a hundred pages. The way 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:43.359 that Blue Ridge is 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:45.969 going to go through this is by operations. Once they get 00:01:45.969 --> 00:01:46.599 done with their 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.159 side of the presentation I'll return to the podium. These 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:50.120 are a little bit 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.989 different than some of the other presentations that you 00:01:51.989 --> 00:01:52.680 receive. There's 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.849 both programs being evaluated there's also operational 00:01:55.849 --> 00:01:57.959 suggestions. So when I 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.500 return to the podium I'll kind of break out management's 00:02:00.500 --> 00:02:01.519 response number one to 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.390 the programs give you an idea of what to expect next and 00:02:04.390 --> 00:02:05.760 also give you an idea of 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.629 where we stand with a lot of the operational 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:08.240 recommendations in the 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:10.780 report. So with that I'm going to go ahead introduce our 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:11.719 speakers tonight. 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:14.919 First up is Neil Bolton. He's the president of Blue Ridge 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:16.199 Services. More 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:19.039 than 40 years of experience in solid waste industry. I 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:19.840 visited hundreds of 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.659 landfills seeing quite a bit of the types of operations 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:24.280 that we run in his 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:26.639 day. In addition he's also the author of several 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:28.680 operational and safety handbooks. 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.449 We have several on site at our operation and most folks in 00:02:32.449 --> 00:02:33.280 the solid waste 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.599 industry are very familiar with the training. His product 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:36.840 speaks for itself. 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:40.030 Instructor 200 plus training classes across the US and 00:02:40.030 --> 00:02:42.199 abroad. Also with 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:44.909 us this evening is Ron Proto. He got 50 plus years 00:02:44.909 --> 00:02:46.080 experience in solid waste 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.349 industry really focused on the collection side of the house 00:02:49.349 --> 00:02:49.860 . He's 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:52.979 currently the president of the Ron Proto consulting group 00:02:52.979 --> 00:02:54.000 as an engineering 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.990 manager and also runs acts as a group manager in some solid 00:02:57.990 --> 00:02:59.280 waste operations in 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.750 San Francisco. So it's my distinct pleasure to welcome him 00:03:01.750 --> 00:03:02.080 to the podium 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.919 and I'll turn it over to Neil. 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.379 Thank you. So my name is Neil Bolton. As Ethan said I've 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:16.400 been in the waste 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:18.949 business a long time. I've probably been to something north 00:03:18.949 --> 00:03:20.240 of 500 landfills and 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:23.830 many hundred other types of waste facilities. So what we're 00:03:23.830 --> 00:03:24.360 going to talk 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.159 about here today is it's kind of the results of an 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:28.719 operational assessment or 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.439 review kind of a boots-on-the-ground look at the facility 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:32.680 where we evaluate a 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.949 lot of your data but also just observe your operations. Ron 00:03:36.949 --> 00:03:38.520 and I and another 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:42.789 person from our company, Kasem, we spent four days total on 00:03:42.789 --> 00:03:43.840 site so we were all 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.800 there for about a week observing your operations, 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.439 collections, landfill, the 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:50.379 whole process and that's what we're going to be talking 00:03:50.379 --> 00:03:51.319 about today to just kind 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:55.039 of give you an overview of where we are. 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:04.430 So we started off the way we normally do just submitting 00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:07.120 questionnaires and 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.509 gathering a lot of data. You guys have a lot of information 00:04:10.509 --> 00:04:11.639 that included the 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.590 collections and the landfill operations. We also did what 00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:16.839 we normally do is the 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.519 operations and safety review. So as a consulting company we 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:20.279 're the guys who 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.040 kind of fit in between. We'll come in behind the time when 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:24.800 a facility is 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.000 designed or operated and look at how it's being operated. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.920 So more the 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.810 practical aspect of that. So late March the three of us 00:04:32.810 --> 00:04:36.319 were here and see if I 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:39.060 can get this to roll the right way. The three areas that we 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:39.879 looked at and that 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:41.990 we're going to talk about tonight are the landfill 00:04:41.990 --> 00:04:43.199 collections and then sort 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.449 of the solid waste system in general in terms of the 00:04:46.449 --> 00:04:49.000 overall process. So we're 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.420 going to start by talking about the landfill. The landfill 00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:52.079 tonnage has 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:55.370 increased continually. This follows kind of the same 00:04:55.370 --> 00:04:56.600 pattern that we see in many 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.189 other areas where the waste generation continues to 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:01.920 increase. We see this in 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.509 areas where there's a lot of growth, a lot of development 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:06.839 and we also find that 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:10.029 along with that same pattern recycling may be increasing as 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:11.920 well in some areas. 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:16.350 The department has instituted a lot of ancillary services 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:17.560 so we're not just 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:21.199 collecting in the landfill but there are a lot of other 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:22.759 operations that are sort 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:25.230 of integrated into that and we're going to talk about some 00:05:25.230 --> 00:05:26.240 of those tonight in 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.509 terms of some that make sense and some that actually in our 00:05:30.509 --> 00:05:31.620 opinion don't make 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.290 sense. So there's been a lot of growth and as tonnage 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:35.519 increases that generally 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.240 means revenue increases and when you look at the waste 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:39.519 industry in general as 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:43.240 a whole nationally there are lots of opportunities to do 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:44.040 other things with 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.949 waste besides just landfill and so your operation has has 00:05:47.949 --> 00:05:49.240 done some of those 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:53.079 things and in some cases you know we found some ineffic 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:53.600 iencies with how those 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:58.600 are working. So part of the process is being able to plan 00:05:58.600 --> 00:05:59.399 ahead and we're going 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.579 to talk about some planning recommendations that we have in 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:03.160 regard 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:06.829 to the landfill itself. There are three key areas one is 00:06:06.829 --> 00:06:08.240 what we call a soil 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:10.639 management plan but that's really a strategic long-term 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:11.639 development plan. I 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.000 can give you an example for those of you that are familiar 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:14.800 with the site or have 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.470 been to the landfill or seen photos of the landfill. What 00:06:17.470 --> 00:06:18.240 we're talking about 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:22.029 here is being able to strategically as though we were 00:06:22.029 --> 00:06:23.480 playing chess with all 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.720 those pieces out there determine when we're going to reach 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:27.560 certain areas. So 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.439 you have a new line that you've just constructed there's a 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:31.279 big pile of soil 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.870 that came from that excavation and the question of where 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:36.639 that soil is and where 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.259 we put asphalt and concrete rubble and where we put other 00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:41.360 materials is very 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.160 important because we see regularly facilities especially 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.879 those that are 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.139 growing fast and doing a lot of development all at once end 00:06:48.139 --> 00:06:49.040 up putting 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:52.240 some materials in maybe less than the perfect strategic 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:53.560 location to the point 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:57.160 where sometimes have to be moved twice and so there are 00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:58.600 some planning goals 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.050 that we think we could put into place there that make that 00:07:01.050 --> 00:07:01.920 more efficient so 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.040 that you know strategically when you're going to fill a 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.519 certain area and how 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:09.279 much soil you will need for that area and how much concrete 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:10.240 or asphalt rubble 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.129 you might need for the access roads and the tipping pads to 00:07:13.129 --> 00:07:14.120 service that area 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:17.439 and then what comes next when do we get to the next point 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:18.160 and having those 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.930 details would be very important. We'll talk a minute in a 00:07:20.930 --> 00:07:22.040 minute just about how 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.790 airspace is currently being utilized at the site and we're 00:07:25.790 --> 00:07:27.240 not as efficient as 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.759 we could be we could do a better job we could we could 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.160 improve our operations to 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.889 be able to consume less airspace by being more strategic 00:07:34.889 --> 00:07:35.759 about how we fill 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.709 and how we compact trash and how we cover the trash and 00:07:38.709 --> 00:07:39.720 that sort of ties 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.560 into all of this. The next recommendation in terms of a 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:43.879 plan is for an annual fill 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.920 sequence plan so one of the things that happens is when we 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:49.199 asked some of the 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:52.319 folks on the ground where are you going to be filling next 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:53.639 week or next month or 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.550 next wet season we didn't get consistent answers and what 00:07:57.550 --> 00:07:58.600 that tells us is we 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.310 really don't know where we're going to go next we're just 00:08:01.310 --> 00:08:01.959 kind of filling the 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.550 next active available place without any pre-planning so let 00:08:05.550 --> 00:08:06.319 me give you an 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:10.009 example of how that would work. If we knew that during the 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:11.439 next wet season or 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:15.350 12 months from now during the whenever we have to be 00:08:15.350 --> 00:08:16.439 someplace where we can 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.449 travel and have access during a wet period if we knew where 00:08:19.449 --> 00:08:20.360 that was going to 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.629 be we could strategically build the base for that out of 00:08:24.629 --> 00:08:25.519 waste get it covered and 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.069 then when asphalt and concrete rubble comes into the site 00:08:28.069 --> 00:08:28.839 we could direct 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:30.939 customers to go to that location and dump it so that it's 00:08:30.939 --> 00:08:31.720 where we're going 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:34.159 to need it. Right now we're dumping it in a central 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:35.679 location we're processing it 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.799 we're hauling up to the top of the hill and then we're 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:38.879 distributing from there 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.470 and so we handle that material multiple times at a fairly 00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:43.759 high cost and there 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:45.629 are just more efficient ways of doing that but that 00:08:45.629 --> 00:08:46.799 requires that we plan ahead 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.409 again to know where we're going to be next. This is a this 00:08:49.409 --> 00:08:50.440 is common concept 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.659 for anybody in the construction business not just moving 00:08:53.659 --> 00:08:54.960 trash or moving soil but 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:56.809 if you're building a building where do you put materials so 00:08:56.809 --> 00:08:57.360 that during the 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.799 right place at the right time. The last part excuse me part 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:02.740 of a very small piece 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:06.190 of this is just having those wet weather tipping pads those 00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:06.940 areas where we can 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:10.629 unload during the wet season set ahead of time. When we 00:09:10.629 --> 00:09:11.720 were there we were 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.330 coming off the back end of a few days of rain and we were 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:16.919 pulling trucks in and 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.870 having some issues with that and so those are things that 00:09:19.870 --> 00:09:20.279 we can we can 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:23.399 solve through better planning and just being more strategic 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:24.320 about how we move 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:29.440 those chess pieces around on site. So this just gives a 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:30.559 little more detail on 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:34.909 that I'm going to skip through this stuff. We get a lot of 00:09:34.909 --> 00:09:35.840 rubble a lot of 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.509 concrete and asphalt rubble comes into the site and we go 00:09:38.509 --> 00:09:39.519 through a number of 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.279 processes we stockpile it and we screen it and we move it 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:43.200 and we crush it and 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.289 we do a number of different things where we have an outside 00:09:45.289 --> 00:09:46.080 contractor come in 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.059 and crush it. We do a number of different things and in the 00:09:49.059 --> 00:09:50.000 end we come up with a 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.279 fairly in the construction industry if you were in the road 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.799 business you'd say 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.500 hey that's a nice material for me to use for my roads but 00:09:57.500 --> 00:09:58.519 we're in the landfill 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:02.179 business and so we don't necessarily need to have that fine 00:10:02.179 --> 00:10:03.360 material that fine 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.750 gravel for creating roads because it doesn't last nearly as 00:10:06.750 --> 00:10:07.639 long as some of 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:09.730 the concrete and asphalt rubble that comes in if we could 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:10.480 just use it in bulk. 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.049 So if we can use chunks of asphalt and concrete that are 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:14.279 this size you would 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:17.370 never put this on a residential road or on your driveway 00:10:17.370 --> 00:10:18.559 but at a landfill where 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:20.730 we're building on trash and so the base of what we're 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:21.960 building on is pretty soft 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.529 and we also have trucks and heavy equipment that are 00:10:24.529 --> 00:10:25.440 driving up those 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.460 roads and into the dirt and into the mud and then back on 00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:29.559 the road and very 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:33.049 quickly as we saw during our time there the road becomes 00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:34.480 pretty well covered with 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:37.740 mud so we're spending a lot of money to process and touch 00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:38.879 that concrete and 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:43.149 asphalt rubble multiple times to get it to a product that's 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:44.480 not the ideal product. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.200 It would be better for us to use it almost as it comes in 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:47.960 aside from very 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.840 large pieces of curb and gutter and concrete with rebar in 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:51.919 it and the more 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:55.120 we can use that material just as is the less handling costs 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:56.039 we have and actually 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.330 the more durable our roads would be. And so some processed 00:10:59.330 --> 00:11:00.279 material could be 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:04.549 beneficial in terms of covering roads and capping, topping 00:11:04.549 --> 00:11:05.720 off roads that are 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.049 getting more traffic just vehicle traffic but in terms of a 00:11:09.049 --> 00:11:09.679 landfill 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.029 operation that doesn't that doesn't make sense for us. On 00:11:12.029 --> 00:11:13.720 top of it we're not 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.980 making any money with this with this rubble gravel 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:18.240 processing operation where 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.590 we crush rubble and create a product from it. Partly 00:11:21.590 --> 00:11:23.159 because it's so expensive 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.559 to do that. Partly because we're taking it in at a rate 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:29.039 that may be a bit low 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:31.309 and we're selling at a rate that's also low and doesn't 00:11:31.309 --> 00:11:32.159 cover our costs and 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:35.059 we're frankly taking in way more material than we need to 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:35.720 have. So what 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.840 normally happens at most facilities is that we'll identify 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:39.919 again through this 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.360 good pre-planning process how much of that material, how 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:44.720 much rubble concrete 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:47.440 and asphalt and maybe some processed gravel that we're 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:48.720 going to need and we 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.269 take in that amount. Here's here's what happens at other 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:52.399 landfills not all but 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.000 many other landfills. They'll identify how much of that 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.279 material they need and 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.919 once they've received that amount of material the gate rate 00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:01.399 increases because 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.870 now it's not something that we are reusing to some benefit 00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:05.539 it's not a 00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:09.279 beneficial reuse material it's actually coming into our 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.039 site we don't need it we 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.840 don't maybe want it and we're losing money in processing it 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:14.960 . So at some point 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:17.169 we don't need to take in as much as we're taking in. If you 00:12:17.169 --> 00:12:17.799 've been to the 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.049 site recently when we were there the end of March there's 00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:21.799 quite a large pile of 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:25.200 unprocessed concrete and asphalt rubble and there's quite a 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.039 large pile of 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.129 processed material and frankly it's just more than we need 00:12:29.129 --> 00:12:30.120 to have and so there 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.899 may be some benefits to being able to adjust the rates and 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:35.200 close the valve on 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.289 that material so to speak because we are losing some money 00:12:39.289 --> 00:12:40.879 in that process. We 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:44.220 also have a building material recovery facility known as 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:46.519 the BMR and the BMR is 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.919 a recycling facility where vehicles come in cell fall 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:53.120 vehicles they dump their 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.360 trash on a concrete pad and then that material gets 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.480 processed. Some metal gets 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:02.929 pulled out some materials get extracted from that most of 00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:04.279 that material then 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:06.929 goes through the process where it's shredded or ground up 00:13:06.929 --> 00:13:07.840 at that facility 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.529 then it grows across a pick line an outside pick line it's 00:13:10.529 --> 00:13:11.200 basically a 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.820 conveyor belt where people could stand there and pull recy 00:13:13.820 --> 00:13:14.759 clables out of it's a 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:19.029 fairly common recycling process it's very labor-intensive. 00:13:19.029 --> 00:13:20.000 When we were there 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.659 there was a lot of material passing through the system it 00:13:22.659 --> 00:13:23.360 was all being 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.320 processed and ground up and what we found was that the 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.200 recycling benefit was 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:33.519 minimal 10% or less very very minimal amount of recycling 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:34.639 going on there to 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.470 the point that we actually observed one of the large excav 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:38.600 ators it has a grapple 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.799 on it called an orange peel grapple and it would it was we 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:42.799 watched it pick up a 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.129 piece of pipe that was about six feet long just a piece of 00:13:45.129 --> 00:13:46.679 plumbing pipe pick 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.269 it up and drop it and reach down and pick it up again and 00:13:50.269 --> 00:13:51.279 finally move it 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.620 that's a lot of equipment for a very minimal amount of 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:56.000 recycling and one of 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.379 the understandings that we had in reading through one of 00:13:58.379 --> 00:13:59.039 the proformas 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.629 and some of the background on that BMR site was that by 00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:04.299 processing the trash by 00:14:04.299 --> 00:14:07.090 shredding it and grinding it up before we haul it to the 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:08.559 landfill and landfill 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.870 it and bury it and compact it that we would get a lot 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:12.159 better compaction rate 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.919 that is simply just not true in fact the compaction rate 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:16.279 that we're achieving is 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.549 below industry standard even facilities that that don't pre 00:14:20.549 --> 00:14:21.720 -process that so 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.090 we're bringing waste material in we're dumping it we're 00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:24.960 pushing it in a pile 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.409 we're picking it up and sorting through it we're putting it 00:14:27.409 --> 00:14:28.559 in a shredder we're 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.100 running it through the shredder across a conveyor into a 00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:32.200 truck and we're hauling 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.570 it to the landfill to process it and we're doing all of 00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:36.919 that work and we're 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.309 getting less result than if we just sent that mature 00:14:39.309 --> 00:14:40.759 directly to the landfill and 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:43.580 compacted it properly and part of the reason for that is 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:45.240 that the compactors 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.330 and I'll get to that in a minute the compactors then the 00:14:47.330 --> 00:14:47.879 steel-wheeled 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.139 landfill compactors are not being used effectively and that 00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:52.080 's not a criticism 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.059 on the operators at all it's just that the space allowed in 00:14:56.059 --> 00:14:57.320 our work pattern is 00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:04.580 not adequate I'll get to that in just a minute so the the 00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:06.799 BMR is also similarly 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:10.750 losing money and we see no way that it's going to make 00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:11.600 money with the current 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.529 process that it has so there is a small amount of diversion 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:15.519 that is happening 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.940 there but the sheer amount of equipment and effort and the 00:15:18.940 --> 00:15:20.120 number of times we 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.370 touch that material is problematic for it's just costing us 00:15:23.370 --> 00:15:24.279 more than it needs 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.740 to cost so just as a kind of set the tone for where we're 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.240 going to be going 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:34.190 from here on a very basic level a landfill can receive 00:15:34.190 --> 00:15:35.399 waste and push it 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.309 and pack it and cover it that's a basic landfill operation 00:15:39.309 --> 00:15:41.080 but you can also do 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.519 a lot of diversion activities you can divert concrete and 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:44.399 asphalt rubble and 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.389 you can push it in a pile and you can dump it through it gr 00:15:47.389 --> 00:15:48.320 isly and you can 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.980 grind it and you can screen it and you can make a product 00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:51.919 and you can move it 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:55.110 around you can do those things in the same way you can find 00:15:55.110 --> 00:15:55.759 recyclable 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.080 commodities like what's coming out to BMR basically trash 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:00.480 and you can process 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:04.289 that with a lot of equipment and just because you can do 00:16:04.289 --> 00:16:05.500 that doesn't mean that 00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:09.769 economically or practically you should do that we see this 00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:11.000 same thing I was at 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.789 a site a landfill in Colorado last week they have a very 00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:16.320 extensive composting 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.669 operation and anything organic can be composted and it 00:16:19.669 --> 00:16:21.340 looks great on the 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:23.210 front end and when you go to the back of the landfill they 00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:24.000 have piles and piles 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.990 and piles of compost that can't be marketed because people 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:27.600 don't want 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.909 compost from the landfill for whatever reason in that 00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:31.080 region they don't want it 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.840 so just because you can do something doesn't mean that you 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.759 should or that it's 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:39.799 gonna make economic sense so we think that the concrete and 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:41.200 asphalt rubble 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.080 operation and the BMR should be discontinued or at least 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:44.840 drastically 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.190 modified to the point where they are more functional and 00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:48.440 more cost-effective 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.440 and you said there's only 10% that was truly recyclable in 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:54.720 all the BMR I 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.679 believe that's correct and I think Ethan ran a separate 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:58.799 comparison and verified 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.840 that that's in the ballpark yeah so 10% is 10% that's not 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:04.200 bad but 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.470 the cost there was a significant cost to that and that's a 00:17:08.470 --> 00:17:09.079 question we have to 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.369 look at is how do we how do we function does that we will 00:17:12.369 --> 00:17:13.119 not lose airspace 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:15.329 it's not like we're putting a material in there that could 00:17:15.329 --> 00:17:15.920 have been used 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.779 somewhere else rather than going into the ground if you 00:17:19.779 --> 00:17:21.640 compact and process 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.319 the waste properly you will actually consume less airspace 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:24.599 than you 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.450 currently are consuming and I'll get to that in just a 00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:28.519 minute but our airspace 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.539 consumption rates are not are not good they don't they don 00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:33.079 't match industry 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.740 typical standard and again not any reflection on the 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:38.240 operators or the staff 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:42.150 it's primarily just a process it would be if we all went 00:17:42.150 --> 00:17:43.519 into that back room to 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.890 one tiny table and all tried to make tuna sandwiches at the 00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:47.660 same time we 00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:49.569 could all work hard and have the best of intentions but if 00:17:49.569 --> 00:17:50.319 there's not enough 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.450 space for us to be efficient we just couldn't do it that's 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:53.000 what's happening 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:58.740 there question on the on the BMR rubble so that that 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.200 material who's bringing 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.240 that in is that a commercial operations that are bringing 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.039 that in it's coming in 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:10.609 from local contractors is my understanding yes so for the 00:18:10.609 --> 00:18:12.559 building 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.079 materials recovery operation it's a mix of commercial 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:16.319 entities businesses 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.140 sometimes small businesses sometimes large and you will see 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:20.160 you know citizens 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.599 come in there single-haul trailers and dump so BMR is much 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:24.480 more of a mix I 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.339 think the rubble processing it is by a large large 00:18:28.339 --> 00:18:30.440 contractors that are doing 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.039 either state road projects local road projects things like 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:35.920 that and so I think 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.740 looking at those two separately building materials recovery 00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:41.480 we will be accepting 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.650 that waste one way or the other when it comes to concrete 00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:44.440 or rubble we don't 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.640 necessarily need to accept that material on site kind of 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:48.559 the adage that I've used 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.490 with staff as we divert a hundred percent of the materials 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:51.000 that we don't 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.430 accept and so I think those two things kind of warrant a 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:55.799 different evaluation 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.799 if that makes sense I know the details would have to be 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:02.880 worked out but like if 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.829 we let's say we say okay we're gonna start raising the gate 00:19:07.829 --> 00:19:08.759 rate or just not 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:14.680 take any more in for a while so you know how's that 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.519 communicated them and I don't 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:20.119 know are these is this is it is this a regional type deal 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:21.519 that's coming in or 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:25.789 there are other landfills that don't accept this that we 00:19:25.789 --> 00:19:27.240 are for some reason 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.890 I don't want to steal Neal's airtime but I will comment on 00:19:29.890 --> 00:19:31.000 that real quick is 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.279 and I'll have some of this in the presentation when I get 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:35.279 back up on the I 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.279 think from a concrete standpoint there are many other 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:39.480 concrete and rubble 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:42.680 processors out there several others that have approached us 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:43.759 in the past is you 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:47.079 know we provide this service we actually contract out our 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:48.400 grinding and processing 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.750 we don't do all that ourselves and so I think when it comes 00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:52.720 to the rebel is 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.690 there are other options out there we're not the only show 00:19:55.690 --> 00:19:56.640 in town there's 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.019 probably several in this region I think when it comes to 00:19:59.019 --> 00:19:59.839 building materials 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.690 recovery the way I would look at that is that's waste that 00:20:01.690 --> 00:20:02.279 we're going to be 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.970 processing and so if we can divert some of that material it 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:05.900 's definitely to our 00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:08.500 benefit but I think it's like Neal said is what is it what 00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:09.420 is the cost we don't 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.539 want to overdo it with big pieces of heavy equipment and 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:13.799 huge picking lines we 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.549 want to try to kind of right size that if that makes sense 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:18.759 and so I hope that 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.650 answers the question and I do see those as two separate 00:20:21.650 --> 00:20:22.880 waste streams you can 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.240 get rid of the concrete that's really maybe not even our 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.160 role or should have 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.279 been but the building materials that that's a solid waste 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:30.240 that's it you're 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.960 either gonna be burying the building materials it's gonna 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:33.680 come in one way or 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:41.460 the other exactly right it's what I would call demo thank 00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.039 you so how much is 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.099 the city of it and put in for all the streets are repairing 00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:48.079 no I'm just kidding 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:58.250 you can answer later we were also doing a process that we 00:20:58.250 --> 00:20:59.519 refer to as enhanced 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:03.779 leachate recirculation program where leachate is pumped le 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:05.160 achate is a liquid 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.400 that comes out of the landfill it's pumped back into the 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.359 top of the landfill 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.400 we're reinjecting that into the landfill and the primary 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:13.440 two reasons that 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.819 landfills do that one is to get rid of the leachate if you 00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:17.559 have a lot of leachate 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.960 and that's a viable option for that that generates a lot of 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:22.440 settlement so it will 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.210 help the landfill to settle because now you're wetting the 00:21:26.210 --> 00:21:27.200 waste and it will 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.819 decompose more rapidly and it also softens the cellulose 00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:30.519 fibers take a 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.690 piece of paper and wad it up in your hand now get that 00:21:32.690 --> 00:21:33.599 paper wet and see how 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.339 much smaller you can compact it so recirculating leachate 00:21:37.339 --> 00:21:38.319 will help us in 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.480 some ways it helps the landfill in some ways it also 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:42.960 drastically increases the 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.259 rate of gas production within the landfill so within the 00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:47.880 landfill and part 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.559 of the decomposition process waste decomposes a cubic foot 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:52.480 of waste from 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.849 your landfill would weigh about a hundred pounds and if we 00:21:54.849 --> 00:21:55.559 watch that 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.250 fully decompose it would create about 600 cubic feet of 00:21:58.250 --> 00:22:00.519 landfill gas so one of 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:03.950 the primary reasons that we research at leachate is to make 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:04.680 more gas there's a 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.519 problem with that currently the city doesn't control the 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.119 gas control system 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:12.759 at the landfill that's done by a private contractor and so 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:14.559 they are not required 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.250 the private contracts not required to put in landfill gas 00:22:18.250 --> 00:22:19.559 wells where needed 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.470 to control landfill gas so we don't have landfill gas 00:22:22.470 --> 00:22:23.960 migration from our landfill 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:30.160 they are strictly focused on maximizing gas recovery so 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:31.759 with their operation they 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.210 want good clean gas they want to put wells in where they 00:22:34.210 --> 00:22:35.000 get lots of good 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.839 clean gas but if there is an issue where we have some 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.640 migration or we have some 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:43.069 issue with gas being produced in an area of the landfill 00:22:43.069 --> 00:22:44.160 that we want to be 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.559 controlled we don't have the mechanism to require them to 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.599 do that that's 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.240 something that will be coming up at some point I believe 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:51.480 that contract renews at 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:54.039 some point and that's something that we would recommend 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:55.119 that the city take more 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.720 of an authority position in that to be able to put gas 00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:58.960 wells in where you need 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:04.000 to have those so we also suggest that the ELR system be 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:04.880 discontinued for the 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.690 time being and at some point when you need to have more gas 00:23:07.690 --> 00:23:08.480 when you have a 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:13.799 mechanism to control excess gas to go ahead and resume that 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:22.000 we also looked at the heavy equipment to landfill and a 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.519 couple of things that we 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:27.200 found that are pretty typical the kamatsu dozer you have 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.000 one big dozer d-155 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.490 that's a d8 size bulldozer that machine is working more 00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:33.559 hours than it needs to 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.420 work and partly it's because of the process of being 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:37.680 constrained in a very 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:40.740 small work area and granted we were there when the landfill 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:41.599 was up on top of 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:43.700 the hill and you were getting close to moving into the new 00:23:43.700 --> 00:23:44.519 liner at some point 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.769 but the hours of the machine bear bear out the fact that it 00:23:48.769 --> 00:23:49.960 's being used too 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.809 many hours and the reason that is is because we don't have 00:23:52.809 --> 00:23:53.920 enough space so 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.279 we're going to be making some recommendations I'll show you 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:56.640 here in 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.490 just a minute what that's going to look like we're 00:23:58.490 --> 00:23:59.460 recommending that the tipping 00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:02.099 face be broadened and widened so there's more room for 00:24:02.099 --> 00:24:03.160 trucks to dump because 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.450 here's what happens in a very small space the bulldozer has 00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:07.240 to be on call 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.569 because when the truck dumps and pulls out he has to push 00:24:09.569 --> 00:24:10.319 that load to get 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.859 ready for the very next truck because we only have a few 00:24:12.859 --> 00:24:14.039 slots for trucks to dump 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.819 that's not only inefficient because he spends a lot of time 00:24:16.819 --> 00:24:17.640 at the starting 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.609 gate waiting for that next push it's also unsafe because he 00:24:20.609 --> 00:24:21.480 's having to get 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.029 in between trucks and close to trucks and the fatalities 00:24:25.029 --> 00:24:26.000 that we have at 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.480 landfills almost always occur at that location for that 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:30.559 reason we're just too 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.819 constrained and too crowded so we're making some 00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.039 recommendations that we 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.130 widen that face out I'll show you what that looks like in a 00:24:36.130 --> 00:24:37.400 minute but in the 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.970 process it will decrease the dozers hours by getting him 00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:40.880 into more efficient 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:45.180 situation where he can actually push in a productive manner 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:46.440 and then park the 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:48.740 dozer and get on the water truck or go do something else 00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:49.680 and a bit later come 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.420 back and do the same thing again we think we can cut his 00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:53.920 hours by about 50% 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.140 you also have a couple of cat 826 compactors those are 00:24:57.140 --> 00:24:58.000 caterpillars 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:04.039 medium-sized compactors compactors have a certain optimum 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:05.640 production rate if they 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.519 try to handle too much waste they don't compact well and 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:09.680 you lose airspace if 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:13.430 you overuse those compactors you spend more money on fuel 00:25:13.430 --> 00:25:14.599 and machine wear and 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:16.559 tear then you gain an airspace so there's kind of a sweet 00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.119 spot in there 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.809 with these machines they would have to increase their 00:25:20.809 --> 00:25:22.240 annual work hours their 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.539 combined work hours from about 4300 hours to somewhere 00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:27.599 around 5600 hours per 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.579 year that's a very very full-time process and it's because 00:25:30.579 --> 00:25:31.319 those machines 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.720 aren't quite big enough for the inbound tonnage that you 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.039 have so we're making a 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:39.309 recommendation that at an appropriate time budget dependent 00:25:39.309 --> 00:25:40.400 that you replace 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:43.720 those machines with the next size of caterpillars largest 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:44.839 or another vendor 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.079 another manufacturer of a comparably sized large compactor 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:48.960 which would do a 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.960 better job of compacting trash and not have to work as many 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:52.920 hours you just be 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.259 much more efficient because the production rate of a large 00:25:55.259 --> 00:25:55.759 machine is 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:58.140 just higher than it is for a medium-sized machine like 00:25:58.140 --> 00:25:59.000 someone one that 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.200 you have you also have a small dozer out there which is 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:03.319 ideal for trimming and 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.410 covering and we don't have any issue with you think we 00:26:05.410 --> 00:26:06.319 think that's great we 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:10.049 should continue to to have and use that small bulldozer and 00:26:10.049 --> 00:26:11.319 we're also using 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.000 three articulated haul trucks to haul soil and we haul some 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.799 rubble with them 00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:19.099 and we do different things with those those those machines 00:26:19.099 --> 00:26:20.400 are excessive in 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.529 terms of the number of machines we have if we utilize a 00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:25.039 more effective means of 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.759 covering the trash an alternative daily cover and we'll 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.799 talk about tarps here in 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.549 just a minute that system would allow us to vastly decrease 00:26:32.549 --> 00:26:33.880 the amount of soil 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.529 that we're using in the landfill and the excessive amount 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:38.640 of soil that's used 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:43.029 for cover is partly significantly part of it of what's 00:26:43.029 --> 00:26:44.759 driving our airspace 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.359 consumption rate we're consuming airspace quicker than we 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:48.000 necessarily 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.910 have to do so we believe that we can decrease the number of 00:26:51.910 --> 00:26:52.359 articulated 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:54.509 haul trucks at the site we could probably get by with less 00:26:54.509 --> 00:26:54.880 than one 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:57.970 machine and we get into the question of having a backup and 00:26:57.970 --> 00:26:59.000 how difficult is it 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:01.650 to find a backup in the market if one machine goes down 00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:02.640 that also takes us 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.250 back to planning if we are planning to fill here this week 00:27:06.250 --> 00:27:07.400 and that's all we 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.309 know if that truck goes down we're in it we're in trouble 00:27:11.309 --> 00:27:12.400 because we've got to 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.700 haul dirt in for the next place we're going to fill but if 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:15.400 we knew that we 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.630 were going to be filling along that table for the next six 00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:18.619 months we could 00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:21.500 be putting soil strategically in those locations and if a 00:27:21.500 --> 00:27:22.839 truck goes down right 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.049 there that's fine we've already placed soil we can use for 00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:25.839 weeks and weeks and 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.690 we can we can keep up with that so the planning component 00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:29.880 is a significant part 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:34.150 of the solution for all of this we think we can decrease 00:27:34.150 --> 00:27:35.720 number of trucks and 00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.180 certainly the number of truck hours by just being more 00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:39.240 efficient with how we 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:44.190 use cover soil we also strongly recommend that we increase 00:27:44.190 --> 00:27:45.279 the use of the 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.450 tarping machine out if you've been out there you've seen we 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:48.079 have a machine 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.769 called a tarpomatic it's a mechanical tarping machine it's 00:27:51.769 --> 00:27:52.519 picked up by a 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.640 bulldozer or compactor and it rolls tarps out like a giant 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:56.680 paper towel roller 00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.599 and covers the trash and that is called alternative daily 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:01.920 cover and just as a 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.680 point of reference when we covered and based on studies 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.359 that we've done across 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:09.839 the country when we cover trash with soil at a lined 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:11.400 landfill where airspace 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.390 is valuable that soil covering costs us between 50 cents 00:28:15.390 --> 00:28:16.319 and a dollar a square 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.349 foot you could go to Home Depot or Lowe's buy cheap carpet 00:28:19.349 --> 00:28:20.160 and roll it out 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.440 every day and save money as opposed to using soil so soil 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:24.920 is something we want 00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:28.390 it we want to minimize to the extent we can the tarping 00:28:28.390 --> 00:28:29.400 system on the other hand 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.599 cost between three and five cents a square foot to use that 00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:33.039 it doesn't 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.440 because it doesn't consume airspace and so there are some 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:37.240 benefits to that we're 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.119 strongly recommend that we increase that and in the process 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:42.480 we think that we can 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.490 go from what's currently about 1,100 pounds per cubic yards 00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:46.180 if we look at how 00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:49.069 many tons of trash goes in and how much airspace that 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:50.480 consumes and we just do 00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.880 the simple math don't extract dirt and add this and just 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:54.680 look at how many tons 00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:57.920 of trash goes in how much airspace is consumed we are 00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:59.640 consuming about 1,100 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.910 pounds or we're getting a density of about 1,100 pounds per 00:29:03.910 --> 00:29:04.519 cubic yard that's 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.750 that's that's below what would be an industry norm for a 00:29:07.750 --> 00:29:08.960 landfill like this 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.180 we think that by improving the operation we can get to 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.200 somewhere around 1,400 we've 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:17.140 seen similar landfills get as high as 1,600 pounds per 00:29:17.140 --> 00:29:18.920 cubic yard and so the 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.019 little bit that we might benefit by shredding and grinding 00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:22.920 material at the 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:28.079 BMR and touching it so many times is is no comparison in 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.599 terms of cost and 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.220 efficiency if we get things right at the face that where we 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:33.240 actually compact and 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:36.369 cover the trash we can get a significantly higher comp 00:29:36.369 --> 00:29:37.200 action rate and 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.240 can consume much less airspace as we go so in summary we 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:43.640 think we should have a 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:45.849 soil management plan that's a long-term plan that shows us 00:29:45.849 --> 00:29:46.599 how we're going to 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:48.880 develop material for example I can tell you that if you've 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:49.720 been out there in the 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.480 past couple of months we were there at the end of March we 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:54.440 had a large pile of 00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.319 concrete and asphalt rubble that was right next to the big 00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:58.279 stockpile of soil 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.359 that came out of our new lined area and the soil stockpile 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:02.880 was starting to erode 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.849 and cover up some of the concrete and asphalt rubble what 00:30:05.849 --> 00:30:06.720 does that mean it 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.680 means at some point we're gonna have to pick that stuff up 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:09.400 again and screen it 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.400 or sort it again to get to it we need to have an annual 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:13.559 fill sequence plan 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:16.319 that shows us step by step where we're going to be that 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:17.880 includes having what 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.470 weather tipping pad so we can have access we need to 00:30:21.470 --> 00:30:23.200 discontinue processing 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.359 rubble at least to the extent that we are right now we're 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:26.160 losing money at that 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.349 we're processing it beyond what is useful for us and it 00:30:29.349 --> 00:30:30.440 doesn't make sense 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.029 the same for the BMR there can be some significant 00:30:34.029 --> 00:30:35.640 reductions in costs without 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.210 any additional loss of airspace in fact by making some good 00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:40.119 changes we can 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:45.539 actually improve our airspace consumption rate and finally 00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:45.839 eliminate 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.549 the enhanced leachate recirculation process that's not 00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:51.359 helping us right now 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:54.559 it's hurting us right now if we want landfill gas we can 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.640 start recirculating 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.589 leachate once that contract is changed and we actually own 00:30:59.589 --> 00:30:59.920 the the 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:04.519 responsibilities for the gas so there are some other things 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:05.119 in the report 00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:07.420 you'll find an appendix in the report that talks about a 00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:08.200 typewriter type 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.319 system you'll see some information there about a pancake 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:12.160 type system and 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.039 those are all integrated to widen the face out give trucks 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:15.920 more room so that 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:19.940 it's safer and reduce dozer costs so the dozer doesn't have 00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:21.240 to be on track on 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.079 call constantly and it also gives the compactors more room 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:26.720 to process just as 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.539 a quick note when compactors working in a very small space 00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:31.640 they spend most of 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:34.750 their time slowing down or accelerating back up in very 00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:35.799 little time in 00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.890 production if any of you have been in a construction 00:31:37.890 --> 00:31:38.880 industry and you've ever 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.809 seen a soil compactor work they make long runs and they 00:31:42.809 --> 00:31:44.319 make them as fast as 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.559 they safely can do that so by giving us more space to work 00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:48.279 at the face by 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.099 widening it out we make the site safer we're going to give 00:31:51.099 --> 00:31:52.480 it to compactors an 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.900 opportunity to get much better compaction so we can get to 00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:56.240 a situation 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.990 where we're saving a lot of money and we're also doing a 00:31:58.990 --> 00:31:59.759 better job of 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.039 landing by just changing some of the things that we're 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:02.960 doing and actually 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:06.329 getting away from some of the ancillary processes that we 00:32:06.329 --> 00:32:09.279 just adopted over time 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.109 Ron I think you're going to be up next any questions on the 00:32:12.109 --> 00:32:13.039 landfill I'm sorry 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:18.279 there's another page here on the info so reduce the dozer 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:20.519 hours fully utilize the 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.180 compactors or get larger compactors reduce the articulated 00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:25.359 truck hours 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.759 increase the tarping system and overall will increase that 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:29.920 effective density 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:32.369 we'll get better compaction at the landfill so any any 00:32:32.369 --> 00:32:33.039 questions on 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:35.690 landfill stuff before we shift over to collections I have 00:32:35.690 --> 00:32:36.680 on the enhanced 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:46.359 leachate recirculation so when does that contract end it's 00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.599 actually up in 2024 any 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.519 chance we can amend it or is that we've had some 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:54.900 discussions with the the vendor 00:32:54.900 --> 00:32:57.900 that's currently onside essentially it breaks down I think 00:32:57.900 --> 00:32:58.799 Neil alluded to this 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:03.130 where the vendor or the contractor has the right but not 00:33:03.130 --> 00:33:04.640 the obligation to 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:08.990 utilize that gas we have to the recommendations of Blue 00:33:08.990 --> 00:33:10.079 Ridge scaled 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:13.029 back our recirculation of leachate by the fact is is the 00:33:13.029 --> 00:33:14.079 gas output is such 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:16.849 that we could probably not put leachate on there we're 00:33:16.849 --> 00:33:18.140 still going to be on the 00:33:18.140 --> 00:33:21.529 gas curve to where gas outputs increased so we are working 00:33:21.529 --> 00:33:22.599 with legal we've we've 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.309 taken a couple of runs at that contract we're certainly 00:33:25.309 --> 00:33:26.500 going to continue to do 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:32.759 so okay so are we are we having the flare the gas now 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.279 excess gas yeah anytime 00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.640 we have excess gas if it's exceeds production capacity then 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:38.279 we are flaring 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.279 okay 00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.769 is the perimeter where the gas production and the gas 00:33:47.769 --> 00:33:48.920 quality perhaps 00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.680 sure great so they don't want it sure but that's what 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:52.759 causes you the migration 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.960 and it's always going to be like that to a degree but once 00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.720 you once you have the 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.539 rights and the responsibility for it both you could go put 00:34:01.539 --> 00:34:02.359 lower production 00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.299 wells there to stop that migration this is a common problem 00:34:05.299 --> 00:34:07.680 because many gas gas 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.760 contracts historically across the country were set up for 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:11.559 the companies 00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.619 that wanted to take the gas to generate electricity or make 00:34:14.619 --> 00:34:15.639 some energy make 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:18.719 pipeline quality gas do something with that and so they got 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:19.760 the rights but as 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.190 Ethan said they don't have the responsibilities for the 00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:22.880 entire system 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.480 okay all right 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:34.159 collections mr. Proto Ron was my first boss in the garbage 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:35.639 business a long time 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:38.519 ago and when I went to the office the very first day I was 00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:39.519 carrying a cup of 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:53.320 coffee like this because I was a country boy I never 00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:53.880 carried coffee around in an 00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.429 office before the wheel on the oh good you know every time 00:34:59.429 --> 00:35:00.880 I listen to Neil's 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:05.920 presentations I learned something and I learned today that 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.880 landfills and uber 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.590 have something in common surge pricing I never realized 00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:15.760 that again my name is Ron 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:18.429 Proto and I've been in the business a very long time when I 00:35:18.429 --> 00:35:19.440 started we used to 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.440 go in your backyard empty your can put the lid on it and 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:23.360 hopefully close the 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:26.239 gate walked up seven stairs and dumped it into the truck I 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:27.559 've seen truck 00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:31.829 pardon and you hang on the truck - yes jumped in it and put 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:32.880 sideboards up on it 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.239 because you didn't want to make three loads to the landfill 00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:36.039 in those days 00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.630 they call them dumps and so I've seen a tremendous amount 00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:40.880 of changes in this 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:45.150 industry I've spent pretty much all my career on the 00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:46.039 operating side the 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.800 collection side of the business although I did have a small 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.719 a small gig when I 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.400 helped develop a landfill for Oakland scavenger company so 00:35:58.400 --> 00:35:59.519 let me see here 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:05.059 whoops went the wrong way the city of damp damn the first 00:36:05.059 --> 00:36:06.400 thing I look for 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.760 when I come in to evaluate an operation is is all the 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:12.800 garbage and recycling 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.590 getting picked up every day and I'm happy to report all 00:36:16.590 --> 00:36:17.920 your garbage your 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:21.039 trash municipal solid waste whatever you want to call it 00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:22.480 and your recycling is 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:25.559 getting picked up every day there's no question about that 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.400 you're not leaving 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.269 blocks behind and it does happen in some communities if you 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:32.079 follow the industry 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:35.280 on some of the publications you'll see that sometimes not 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:36.360 all the garbage and 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.190 recycling gets picked up but that's not a problem in the 00:36:39.190 --> 00:36:40.840 city of Denton you 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:45.409 provide a wide wide variety of services including solid 00:36:45.409 --> 00:36:46.920 waste municipal solid 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:51.190 waste recycling bulky items and household chemicals and on 00:36:51.190 --> 00:36:52.239 the commercial side 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.019 it's municipal solid waste recycling and food waste you're 00:36:56.019 --> 00:36:57.079 just starting into the 00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:01.070 food waste in some in in California that's a real big thing 00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:02.280 green waste and 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:07.320 food waste I think by 2025 you can't put any of it into the 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.440 landfill on the 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:15.789 residential service each route makes about you know a 00:37:15.789 --> 00:37:17.400 thousand to eleven 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.369 hundred lifts a day and the industry standard it for an 00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:21.360 eight hour day is 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.710 about nine hundred and fifty to a thousand lifts a day one 00:37:24.710 --> 00:37:25.880 of the things 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.329 although you're getting good production one of the things 00:37:28.329 --> 00:37:29.239 that we would like to 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:34.420 see is that you conduct some kind of an objective survey to 00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:36.159 see if you're getting 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.750 the most out of those residential routes because they are 00:37:39.750 --> 00:37:41.159 working ten hours a day 00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:43.900 they're not working eight they're working ten hours a day 00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:44.599 and that's an 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:48.559 expansive day so it is recommended that you do a 00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.039 comprehensive study an objective 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:56.460 study to see if you are getting a full day's work out of 00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:59.920 those routes residential 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:04.019 recycling collection productivity is very low there's a one 00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:05.039 -to-one relation 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:08.590 here in Denton there's a one-to-one relationship with the 00:38:08.590 --> 00:38:09.800 recycling trucks 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:13.559 and the trash trucks and that's that's not very common 00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:14.880 usually a recycling truck 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.269 because every lift they don't pick up as much and not every 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:20.719 customer puts out 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.989 their recycling every week they travel farther they usually 00:38:24.989 --> 00:38:26.079 travel more one and 00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:29.510 a quarter one and a third maybe one and a half routes but 00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:30.599 you have a one-to-one 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:36.019 relationship so on a garbage route you're you're probably 00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:38.079 getting 95 to 98 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:40.840 percent of the customers are setting their garbage out 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:41.920 every week whereas 00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:45.909 recycling they're setting it out maybe 60 or 70 percent and 00:38:45.909 --> 00:38:47.679 maybe even less so 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.739 those recycling drivers are picking up maybe six or seven 00:38:50.739 --> 00:38:51.880 hundred houses a day 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:57.300 versus the almost thousand houses that a municipal waste 00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:59.280 truck will be picked up 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.190 the recycling route use the same number of trucks as the 00:39:03.190 --> 00:39:04.239 garbage routes yet they 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:08.500 collect only 22 percent of the residential tonnage so there 00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:08.840 's something 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:14.039 that's not doesn't add up so what we're recommending is 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:15.159 that they audit the 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:18.389 residential recycling routes the setout rate now the setout 00:39:18.389 --> 00:39:18.880 rate and 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:22.610 participation rate are two different things participation 00:39:22.610 --> 00:39:23.679 rate is you put the 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:27.949 can out in the street once once a week once a month you're 00:39:27.949 --> 00:39:28.880 participating in the 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.500 program the setout rate is how many people actually put it 00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:33.239 out every week 00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:36.440 and that's a very important number because that tells you 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:37.239 how to design 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.019 your routes how many lifts they're going to make so we're 00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:41.639 recommending that 00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:46.760 department make do a set out and a volume to look actually 00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.000 look into the 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.690 carts to see how much is in there I did a study for a 00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:55.260 jurisdiction in California 00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:59.309 where I actually flipped the lids on on every not on every 00:39:59.309 --> 00:40:00.719 route but on a lot of 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.469 routes and the recycling is all over the board but there 00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:05.559 were a lot of carts that 00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.840 weren't completely full quarter full half full and then yes 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.519 there's the carts 00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:14.929 that are over full or somebody has two carts but I think 00:40:14.929 --> 00:40:17.039 since you don't don't 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.789 know what the setout rate is it would be good to have 00:40:19.789 --> 00:40:21.320 conduct that study so that 00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:25.320 you can see it and then design more productive routes I 00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:26.840 talk a little fast 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:31.369 sometimes so if you want me to slow down and and I'm just 00:40:31.369 --> 00:40:35.199 really surprised that 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:42.150 the recycling isn't higher maybe it's just because I've 00:40:42.150 --> 00:40:43.719 been recycling so long 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:47.989 yes our recycling is full our garbage is not yes in my 00:40:47.989 --> 00:40:49.440 house it's the same thing 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.650 yeah I could probably put my garbage cart out I don't have 00:40:52.650 --> 00:40:53.599 garbage in my cart 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.230 anymore because where I live they actually take the food 00:40:56.230 --> 00:40:57.039 waste in with the 00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:01.079 yard waste I could put my garbage cart out what they call 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:02.039 garbage cart out once 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:05.780 a month I just don't fill it up anymore just surprised me 00:41:05.780 --> 00:41:06.119 yeah I know it's not 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:10.829 gonna it's not gonna increase the volume of tonnage that 00:41:10.829 --> 00:41:13.199 you get in but if is 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:19.380 having smaller recycle bins increase your setout rate does 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:20.039 that make it more 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:24.309 efficient yes it definitely would but I believe you use a 00:41:24.309 --> 00:41:26.440 64 gallon cart which 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:29.769 is pretty much the standard in the industry because that 00:41:29.769 --> 00:41:31.039 material is bulky 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:35.590 it's light it's not very heavy but it's bulky so but there 00:41:35.590 --> 00:41:36.679 are some 00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:39.960 jurisdictions that you get somebody that just wants a 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:41.239 smaller cart they'll give 00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:46.739 them a smaller cart but 64 is a pretty standard cart okay 00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:49.000 so one of the things 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:53.269 to increase your lifts when you when you get in there would 00:41:53.269 --> 00:41:54.840 be to just expand the 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:58.099 size of the route have the drivers drive over pass more 00:41:58.099 --> 00:42:00.320 houses to get a full day's 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:08.199 work residential yard waste now this residential yard waste 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:09.239 has some 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:14.739 issues with it and that is it's in my view it's it's very 00:42:14.739 --> 00:42:16.840 inefficient it has a 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:22.480 two-person crew and they drive by almost 2,000 houses per 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.039 day but average only a 00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:29.190 hundred and twenty eight collections now that's an average 00:42:29.190 --> 00:42:31.119 you have peak seasons 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:34.550 and they collect you know 300 maybe even 400 but on average 00:42:34.550 --> 00:42:36.239 they collect 128 a day 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.460 and they collect less than four they collect less than four 00:42:39.460 --> 00:42:40.519 tons per load and 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:45.000 that's about 50% of the trucks capacity it's not even being 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:46.719 utilized so the 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:49.800 recommendation that we have and you can see this here 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:51.239 before I recommend it in 00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:56.190 this the upper photo that was just one little pile that we 00:42:56.190 --> 00:42:57.400 saw it's very 00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:01.670 inefficient it was down there you know the drivers are 00:43:01.670 --> 00:43:03.079 gonna scoop it up by 00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:06.139 hand they're gonna leave some behind they're gonna leave a 00:43:06.139 --> 00:43:07.079 mess if you look 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.079 at the one on the bottom there that I drew a circle around 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.039 I mean that was on 00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:14.989 a video that was posted on YouTube I mean the drivers tried 00:43:14.989 --> 00:43:16.079 you know it was a 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:20.019 big pile of there they're grabbing it with their arms I 00:43:20.019 --> 00:43:21.440 think that driver 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.489 there doesn't have a long-sleeve shirt on it's it's you 00:43:24.489 --> 00:43:25.800 know it's not really 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.760 safe and they did they did leave a mess and as you can see 00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:29.639 the last photo 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:32.369 sometimes they park on the wrong side of the street and 00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:33.920 they collect both sides at 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:37.039 the same time so one member of the crew is walking across 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:38.320 the street in front of 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:44.119 traffic so it's not it's not very safe for the drivers so 00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:45.840 we see is there 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.199 another slide on that no so what we're recommending I guess 00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:50.880 I didn't put it 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.320 down here what we are recommending is that you consider 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:54.320 going to a cart based 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.230 system similar to what you have for recycling and municipal 00:43:58.230 --> 00:43:59.559 solid waste now 00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.599 it's not going to be as convenient for your customers but 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:03.760 it's going to be more 00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:10.889 cost-effective and and efficient for for the city because 00:44:10.889 --> 00:44:12.840 you can have a one 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:17.789 person driver operator operate the truck and go along and 00:44:17.789 --> 00:44:19.400 just just like your 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.730 garbage trucks do and your recycling trucks do it's a lot 00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:23.719 safer it's a lot 00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.719 cleaner and it's way more efficient 00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.599 bulky item collection now this is a this is a very 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:34.079 important service for the city 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:39.239 I did not drive around the whole city but I would guess 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:40.840 that you do have 00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:46.769 probably have some illegal dumping in the city I'm not sure 00:44:46.769 --> 00:44:47.400 but I would 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.590 imagine you have illegal dumping if you were to eliminate 00:44:50.590 --> 00:44:51.679 bulky item collection 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:57.300 you'd have a whole lot more collection there so the crews 00:44:57.300 --> 00:44:59.320 average about 35 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.929 collections a day which is very low some places go up as 00:45:02.929 --> 00:45:04.880 high as 200 but you 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:11.519 know 150 125 is more the average and so you could run the 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.639 collection every other 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.420 week or every third week and you could adjust the schedule 00:45:16.420 --> 00:45:17.840 seasonally adjust the 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:21.590 schedule based on the service or I know this sounds counter 00:45:21.590 --> 00:45:22.719 intuitive but you 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:26.989 could promote the program more to get people to use the 00:45:26.989 --> 00:45:28.440 program and perhaps 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:33.250 reduce the amount of illegal dumping that goes on in the 00:45:33.250 --> 00:45:33.719 city 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.239 household chemical collection this this is you folks 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.400 provide valet household 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:43.619 chemical collection you know you go door to door to pick it 00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:44.800 up somebody called 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.139 a customer resident call in make an appointment you go pick 00:45:49.139 --> 00:45:50.280 it up usually I 00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:54.550 mean they there are communities that do it it's very 00:45:54.550 --> 00:45:56.800 expensive but usually what 00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:01.090 is done is they'll have a facility where residents can drop 00:46:01.090 --> 00:46:02.679 it off rather than go 00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:07.309 door-to-door and collect it and as you can see here there's 00:46:07.309 --> 00:46:10.239 3800 almost 3900 00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:15.659 pickups meaning that only 12% of the residents utilize the 00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:16.559 service but that's 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:20.829 like 15 pickups a day it's it's not a lot of there's not a 00:46:20.829 --> 00:46:21.960 lot of pickups out 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:27.199 there so there is there are some grants I believe that you 00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:28.800 folks can apply for 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.719 that could help you to and get permits to help you 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:33.559 establish a program perhaps 00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:37.239 on the same site that it is now 00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:46.659 commercial garbage collection I still call it I mean a rose 00:46:46.659 --> 00:46:48.000 by any other name 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:53.420 is still a rose commercial garbage front loaders average 00:46:53.420 --> 00:46:55.119 about 102 lifts per day 00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:58.780 the industry standard is somewhere between 125 and 150 00:46:58.780 --> 00:46:59.440 lifts a day 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:03.130 depending upon route density distance from the landfill and 00:47:03.130 --> 00:47:04.119 one other thing 00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.750 that's very very important if you drive around the city of 00:47:07.750 --> 00:47:09.480 Denton you'll see all 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:15.619 your you won't see a cart that has any wheels on it that is 00:47:15.619 --> 00:47:17.679 not common that is 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:22.289 ideal that is like a dream route where the driver rolls up 00:47:22.289 --> 00:47:23.480 to the container and 00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:27.170 what I call stabs it the only time the driver has to get 00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:28.519 out of the truck is 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:31.489 maybe to open up a gate for an enclosure back out and do it 00:47:31.489 --> 00:47:32.480 I rode with one of 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.820 the drivers and he did that on a couple of occasions so 00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:38.000 there unless I'm missing 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.880 something there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:41.760 get up closer to 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.579 the hundred and twenty five or fifty lifts per day and the 00:47:45.579 --> 00:47:46.719 way you can do 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:50.440 that is you can eliminate one Monday through Friday route 00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:51.739 and one Saturday 00:47:51.739 --> 00:47:55.630 route now you have two Saturday routes and the reason you 00:47:55.630 --> 00:47:56.440 have two Saturday 00:47:56.440 --> 00:48:01.079 routes because someone thought that it would be advantage 00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:01.840 ous to have two 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.719 drivers out there instead of one in case something went 00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:06.159 wrong I come from the 00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.400 school is if you have a problem call your supervisor 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:10.880 because your supervisor 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:14.650 has the wherewithal and the resources to help you out when 00:48:14.650 --> 00:48:15.719 I looked at the 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:20.110 Saturday routes I forget the exact number but there was a 00:48:20.110 --> 00:48:22.159 88 88 something 00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:26.639 like that 90 customers really didn't need Saturday service 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:27.280 they had three 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:31.550 times a week or less service normally the hurdle for 00:48:31.550 --> 00:48:32.820 Saturday service is not 00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:36.119 universal but the hurdle rate is four times a week service 00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:37.119 so they go Monday 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.710 Wednesday and Friday and Saturday because they can't hold 00:48:39.710 --> 00:48:40.280 over for the 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.519 weekend but there were several twice a week customers some 00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:44.239 one time a week 00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:47.840 customers so it's not like you're stopping Saturday service 00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:48.599 you're just 00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:51.710 condensing Saturday service and moving that over through 00:48:51.710 --> 00:48:53.199 Monday Monday through 00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:56.590 Friday routes and you can increase those lifts to about 120 00:48:56.590 --> 00:48:57.599 a day which is more 00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.869 in line with what they should be the commercial recycling 00:49:01.869 --> 00:49:03.320 routes are similar 00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:07.099 situation their lift count is only 68 per day you have a 00:49:07.099 --> 00:49:07.840 very complicated 00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:11.309 schedule half-day route here half-day route there pick up 00:49:11.309 --> 00:49:12.760 trash or pick up one 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:16.159 commodity here pick up one another commodity here and 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:17.119 whenever you have 00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:20.760 half-day routes you lose productivity you just have to keep 00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:21.760 working at and 00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:26.340 working at it and in addition this truck picks up less than 00:49:26.340 --> 00:49:27.400 50% of the trucks 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.820 carrying capacity so again we recommend consider a complete 00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:33.239 review of the 00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:36.900 commercial recycling system and then depending upon what 00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:37.780 you find is to 00:49:37.780 --> 00:49:41.260 redesign the routes to increase the lift count to about 150 00:49:41.260 --> 00:49:42.599 a day again that 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.030 shouldn't be a problem because you drive directly into the 00:49:46.030 --> 00:49:47.280 bins occasionally the 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:54.000 driver has to get out to move the open or close a gate 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.360 multifamily recycling we 00:49:56.360 --> 00:50:02.369 understand that that's an interest of the city and there's 00:50:02.369 --> 00:50:03.320 no question that 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:06.800 you can do multifamily recycling but there's a there's a 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:08.840 caution here I don't 00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:12.199 know if you folks follow the recycling markets and what's 00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:14.159 going on in China now 00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:18.119 California is a big big recycler that's where I come from 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.280 California they are 00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:24.679 choking on recycling they cannot get rid of their recycling 00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:27.079 their residual rates 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:32.030 in California generally from a materials recovery facility 00:50:32.030 --> 00:50:34.119 was about 10% now 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:38.119 they're approaching 25 and 35% they just to clean the 00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:39.599 material up and even at 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.329 that point sometimes they can't get rid of the material so 00:50:42.329 --> 00:50:44.480 if you do go into and 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:48.769 multifamily recycling is the most difficult recycling to 00:50:48.769 --> 00:50:49.840 pick up it is 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:54.400 usually highly contaminated so if you do decide to go into 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.079 multifamily 00:50:55.079 --> 00:51:02.860 recycling we recommend you go with caution fleet 00:51:02.860 --> 00:51:05.559 maintenance a major 00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:08.480 complaint and a source of frustration was that from the 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:09.639 drivers was it takes 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:12.960 too long to get the truck repaired and so the drivers were 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:14.199 avoiding dropping 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:17.510 off their truck unless it was absolutely necessary and this 00:51:17.510 --> 00:51:18.960 is a serious safety 00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:23.550 concern but also exactly excess excess or baits the 00:51:23.550 --> 00:51:25.880 maintenance time issue of 00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:29.519 the maintenance we looked through one of the reports a 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:30.719 driver complained about his 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:34.010 truck and his truck was in there for like 13 days but then 00:51:34.010 --> 00:51:35.039 when we looked at 00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:38.730 the notes that were in there the reason it was in for 13 00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:40.139 days is there were so 00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:44.139 many things that were wrong with it some of them that were 00:51:44.139 --> 00:51:45.360 obvious the driver 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:50.860 should have turned in like the fender was you know rattling 00:51:50.860 --> 00:51:52.960 really loose that 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.010 the tarping mechanism has happened to be a roll-off truck 00:51:56.010 --> 00:51:56.920 and the tarping 00:51:56.920 --> 00:52:00.650 mechanism that goes back the cylinders and we're leaking 00:52:00.650 --> 00:52:02.079 and the long hose was 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:04.690 leaking and that's because they don't want to bring it in 00:52:04.690 --> 00:52:05.599 because it takes too 00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:08.559 long but because they don't want to bring it in it takes 00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:09.239 too long because 00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:11.579 there's too many things your mechanics from my 00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:13.440 understanding or train when a 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:15.980 truck comes in you don't fix just what's on the service 00:52:15.980 --> 00:52:16.960 order you fix everything 00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:20.159 you find so when they do a preventative maintenance they 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:21.360 find several things 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:27.309 that are wrong so they have to fix all of it so one of the 00:52:27.309 --> 00:52:28.320 things that we 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.949 recommend recommended is that there be periodic meetings 00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:32.599 between fleet 00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:36.960 maintenance services and the drivers and this allows the 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:37.960 groups to have a mutual 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:41.159 understanding of the challenges drivers face and also the 00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:42.559 technicians face and 00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:46.969 sort of bring them together to talk about the problems I'm 00:52:46.969 --> 00:52:47.840 gonna see if 00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:51.780 there's one more here there's another issue is the city of 00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:52.639 Denton fleet 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.159 maintenance has 16 technicians to that take care of about 1 00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:00.719 ,100 assets now this 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:06.139 includes pickup trucks little vans and everything and to be 00:53:06.139 --> 00:53:08.039 fair the the the 00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.630 actually industry standard is seven to ten trucks for a 00:53:11.630 --> 00:53:13.039 technician now I know 00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:16.099 when a garbage truck goes in there fire engines is going to 00:53:16.099 --> 00:53:17.119 take precedent over 00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:20.010 it there's no question about I don't know what the ratio is 00:53:20.010 --> 00:53:20.920 for mechanics to 00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:26.159 fire trucks but I know on I can go just about any 00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.960 maintenance program that's 00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:31.219 running efficiently there's seven to ten trucks for every 00:53:31.219 --> 00:53:33.280 mechanic and so there 00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:38.519 is the department needs to add more mechanics in order to 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:40.159 get turn over the 00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:46.159 trucks quicker the other the other fact is that the 00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:47.400 maintenance facility is four 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:49.619 miles away from the collection department and makes 00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:50.400 dropping off the 00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:55.599 trucks very inconvenient a driver drops off a truck someone 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:56.440 has to bring the 00:53:56.440 --> 00:54:02.070 driver back to the to the to the corporation yard they have 00:54:02.070 --> 00:54:03.239 to pick up a 00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:05.619 truck in the morning somebody has to take the driver to go 00:54:05.619 --> 00:54:06.360 down and pick up 00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.250 the truck it's very inconvenient one of the things that we 00:54:09.250 --> 00:54:10.079 heard when we were 00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:13.920 here is that there was anticipated that there was going to 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:14.800 be a fleet maintenance 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:19.320 annex built at the corporation yard and it was sort on hold 00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:20.480 we also when we 00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:25.139 talked to the fleet service superintendent said that they 00:54:25.139 --> 00:54:26.719 were running out of room 00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:30.980 and that they wanted to expand their shop so it looks like 00:54:30.980 --> 00:54:32.119 everything if they 00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:36.389 could coordinate that get the shop built at the corporation 00:54:36.389 --> 00:54:37.360 yard and get the 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.539 mechanics right there drivers will probably turn in their 00:54:40.539 --> 00:54:41.239 trucks more 00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:44.599 frequently when it needs repair and they'll be timely 00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:49.840 repaired collection 00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:53.750 summary conduct an objective study on residential municipal 00:54:53.750 --> 00:54:54.760 solid waste routes 00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:58.079 as I said you're doing about a thousand lifts a day that's 00:54:58.079 --> 00:54:59.079 pretty good but 00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:02.000 remember you work ten hours a day and not eight hours a day 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:02.880 so they might be 00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.079 able to be increased audit the residential recycling south 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:06.719 's for set 00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:11.079 out rate and cart volume then adjust the routes accordingly 00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:13.199 and then consider 00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:17.519 using a cart based yard waste system and then consider the 00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.340 bulky collection every 00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:22.539 other week or every third week to increase the collections 00:55:22.539 --> 00:55:23.840 to 70 or 100 00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:30.119 per day or publicize the program more to try to increase 00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.400 the number of residents 00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:34.139 and discontinue the household hazardous collection 00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:35.480 residential collection 00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:40.190 service and open up a regional facility and have people 00:55:40.190 --> 00:55:41.679 drop it off at the 00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:47.949 facility rather than provide a valet service we have a lot 00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:48.280 of 00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:51.869 recommendations on the collection side eliminate one Monday 00:55:51.869 --> 00:55:52.960 through Friday and 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.530 one Saturday commercial route to increase the lift counts 00:55:55.530 --> 00:55:56.800 to about 120 a 00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:01.070 day consider a complete review of the commercial recycling 00:56:01.070 --> 00:56:01.960 system to increase 00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:06.659 lift counts to around 150 a day before expanding multif 00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:08.519 amily recycling services 00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:12.380 wait for current markets to stabilize and conduct further 00:56:12.380 --> 00:56:13.679 further resident 00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:17.949 utilization analysis conduct periodic meetings between 00:56:17.949 --> 00:56:18.880 fleet maintenance 00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:22.739 services and drivers and increased fleet services 00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:24.559 department staff to achieve a 00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:28.420 ratio of one technician every set seven to ten vehicles and 00:56:28.420 --> 00:56:29.480 constructing a 00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:34.519 maintenance shop annex close to the parking where the 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:37.519 trucks parked I'm 00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:45.530 going to turn this back over to Neil so this is a third 00:56:45.530 --> 00:56:46.840 component of what we 00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:49.840 looked at talked about landfills we talked about 00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:51.159 collections this is kind of 00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:55.110 the overall aspect of that I'm going to talk about safety 00:56:55.110 --> 00:56:56.719 there is not a good 00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.989 safety culture in the department right now we saw a lot of 00:57:00.989 --> 00:57:01.920 folks that weren't 00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:07.960 wearing high visibility safety apparel and they should 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:09.559 supervisors or managers 00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:12.730 also need to be doing they need to set the example no one 00:57:12.730 --> 00:57:14.480 should ever go out 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.130 into the yard or onto the landfill if they step out of a 00:57:17.130 --> 00:57:18.000 vehicle and any any 00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:21.590 part of the operations they should have a safety vest with 00:57:21.590 --> 00:57:23.280 them we found that 00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:25.369 the safety meetings and we sat in on one we talked to folks 00:57:25.369 --> 00:57:26.760 about other ones they 00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:29.090 weren't focused on specific things they were just more 00:57:29.090 --> 00:57:30.239 general there were there 00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:33.420 were some discussions in there there weren't a lot of 00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:34.679 safety slogans and 00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:36.949 posters there just wasn't a lot of evidence that we're 00:57:36.949 --> 00:57:38.159 really focused on on 00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:42.429 safety just to give you a little feedback the waste 00:57:42.429 --> 00:57:43.000 business is the 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.760 fifth most dangerous industry in the United States based on 00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:47.559 fatalities per 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:50.800 number of workers following logging and offshore fishing 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.239 and roofing I don't 00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:56.590 recall what the other one is air pilots and we're number 00:57:56.590 --> 00:57:58.599 five and so part of the 00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:02.860 process for this is to just make safety more of a vested 00:58:02.860 --> 00:58:04.599 interest for everyone 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:12.800 on the team so we're recommending that everyone in any part 00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:13.679 of the operations 00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:16.079 if they're on the ground outside your vehicle outside the 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:16.840 office that they 00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:20.889 have a high visibility safety vest everyone we need to have 00:58:20.889 --> 00:58:21.440 safety 00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.480 meetings that are more applicable and so general topics 00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:25.599 that a safety meeting is 00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:28.469 fine at times but there are a lot of specific things that 00:58:28.469 --> 00:58:29.360 should be dealt 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:32.320 with and that that involves some more or requires some more 00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:33.320 involvement from 00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:36.320 supervisors or whoever's leading the safety meetings to 00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:37.639 talk about near misses 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:39.489 and what are some of the issues we're having on the riot 00:58:39.489 --> 00:58:40.199 route what are some 00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:43.789 issues we're having at the landfill things like that we 00:58:43.789 --> 00:58:47.360 need to have basic 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.840 standard operating procedures for everyone at the landfill 00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:51.519 on under routes 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:54.869 and here's one of the things that we find is lacking our 00:58:54.869 --> 00:58:56.039 company does a lot 00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:59.909 of surveys around the United States and Canada we find that 00:58:59.909 --> 00:59:01.800 90% of those 00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:05.469 managers and supervisors that we survey the facilities that 00:59:05.469 --> 00:59:06.280 we survey say we 00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.449 really don't have all of our safety documents and all of 00:59:08.449 --> 00:59:09.000 our standard 00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:12.650 operating procedures formalized we just sort of learn by 00:59:12.650 --> 00:59:14.079 doing and we learn by 00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.920 tradition and that's how we do that if you translate that 00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.840 and take that further 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.679 down the line that means that 90% of our folks don't have 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:22.360 good standard 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:26.150 operating procedures there's not a standard process and so 00:59:26.150 --> 00:59:26.960 if we were to 00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.320 quiz everyone and ask how do we do this we wouldn't get the 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:30.159 same answer and we 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:33.159 didn't get the same answer so we need to have some standard 00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:34.320 procedures for how we 00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:38.920 do things this is basic stuff we looked at the 00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:41.480 organizational structure what we 00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:45.170 found was that the department is generally management heavy 00:59:45.170 --> 00:59:46.360 and partly 00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:49.949 that become that's because I believe we have a lot of 00:59:49.949 --> 00:59:51.920 peripheral processes that 00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:55.829 we're doing the ELR and the BMR and the concrete and 00:59:55.829 --> 00:59:58.239 asphalt all of that Ron can 00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:00.530 speak to some of the numbers that we found with collections 01:00:00.530 --> 01:00:01.280 but we just found 01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:06.699 a lot of management compared to the number of workers so we 01:00:06.699 --> 01:00:08.280 think that some 01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:13.969 of the operations have to be discontinued decreased let's 01:00:13.969 --> 01:00:15.039 get through 01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:19.309 some of this so collections management positions constitute 01:00:19.309 --> 01:00:20.800 16% of the staff 01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.800 industry standards about 10% so if you look at the staff 01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:26.519 about 10% of our 01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:31.210 collection staff should be supervisors or managers for us 01:00:31.210 --> 01:00:34.280 at 16% normally 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:37.429 collections supervisors have six to nine employees the 01:00:37.429 --> 01:00:38.679 report to them or that 01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:42.949 they're supervising that's 30 to 50 percent below the 01:00:42.949 --> 01:00:44.239 industry standards so 01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:48.889 again we just have we have too many management folks a lot 01:00:48.889 --> 01:00:49.559 of the 01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.860 collection supervisors spend a lot of their time doing 01:00:51.860 --> 01:00:52.880 administrative things 01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:56.449 we're having an administrative assistant IE a secretary 01:00:56.449 --> 01:00:57.800 someone else to do some 01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:01.650 of the paperwork could be a huge benefit those folks should 01:01:01.650 --> 01:01:02.920 be involved in 01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:07.199 managing their routes and their drivers and not doing 01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:09.079 administrative tasks I 01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:11.829 think that Ron if you have a comment on this the 01:01:11.829 --> 01:01:13.519 collections dispatching 01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:16.420 supervision of backup drivers and fleet maintenance need to 01:01:16.420 --> 01:01:17.559 be addressed as part 01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:21.829 of this whole process in other words how are we structured 01:01:21.829 --> 01:01:22.840 how is the collection 01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:31.280 system structured in that regard special projects new 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:35.639 operations we can we can 01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:38.179 back I think we need to the gist of this is we need to step 01:01:38.179 --> 01:01:39.079 back to our core 01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:43.880 operations and make sure we're focusing on getting those 01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:46.480 right so we think as a 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:49.099 recommendation we can reduce three managers and four 01:01:49.099 --> 01:01:50.280 supervisor positions 01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:53.199 within the department basically dissolve the site 01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:54.800 operations division which was 01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:56.889 all of the special projects where those were coming from 01:01:56.889 --> 01:01:58.599 and assign some 01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:03.050 planning and special projects to the landfill manager we 01:02:03.050 --> 01:02:04.599 think that the scale 01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:08.070 house should be assigned to the administration manager so 01:02:08.070 --> 01:02:08.760 that there's a 01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:11.730 little closer communication between what's happening in the 01:02:11.730 --> 01:02:12.440 scale and what's 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.079 happening operationally I think we should have a dispatch 01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:17.039 operation which 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.949 speaks more to the collections side of things and the an 01:02:20.949 --> 01:02:23.480 cillary services should 01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.900 just be under a facility supervisor so that in other words 01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:27.679 when we have 01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:30.500 additional things that we're doing at the facility that we 01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:31.559 have someone who is 01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.340 who's coordinating that and managing that specifically so 01:02:35.340 --> 01:02:37.079 this table here shows 01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:41.110 where we are currently and kind of what we're recommending 01:02:41.110 --> 01:02:43.639 on the landfill side 01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:49.440 and this chart you're probably not going to be able to see 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.960 Ethan are you going to 01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:56.429 talk about this in more detail do you want me to go through 01:02:56.429 --> 01:02:57.119 this or do you 01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:59.400 want to talk about that okay this is going to be hard for 01:02:59.400 --> 01:02:59.920 everyone to see I 01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:02.090 think I saw some of your stuff and it looks like it's maybe 01:03:02.090 --> 01:03:02.639 a little bit 01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:07.170 clearer to see that Ron any comments on that on the 01:03:07.170 --> 01:03:16.679 collection stuff I know 01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:21.369 better sorry this is just a graphical representation of the 01:03:21.369 --> 01:03:22.480 slide before is 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:27.429 consolidating the the supervisors and the managers we're 01:03:27.429 --> 01:03:29.079 not adding any we 01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:32.710 added two new positions but we're not adding two new staff 01:03:32.710 --> 01:03:33.760 in the collections 01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:38.110 and that is a full-time dispatcher and also a fleet our 01:03:38.110 --> 01:03:40.079 facilities maintenance 01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:44.650 supervisor so it's just removing the people around shuff 01:03:44.650 --> 01:03:46.840 ling them around any 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:56.239 questions thank you very much thank you thank you very much 01:03:57.199 --> 01:04:01.989 thank you Ron so I know I know this report's fairly dense 01:04:01.989 --> 01:04:03.119 and I'm not going 01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:05.519 to be going through in detail kind of the management 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:06.679 response but I do want to 01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:10.630 hit a few key items see if I can't find my presentation 01:04:10.630 --> 01:04:11.519 here seems to have 01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:19.719 disappeared on me all right I think my presentation got 01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:19.760 deleted 01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:32.239 it's a Monday right well I appreciate Ron and Neil going 01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:33.159 through that again I 01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:36.210 know this a dense presentation so like I mentioned at the 01:04:36.210 --> 01:04:37.239 outset what I'm going 01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:39.780 to attempt to do is just kind of break this down between 01:04:39.780 --> 01:04:41.400 really two sections of 01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:44.489 recommendations and responses for most of the operational 01:04:44.489 --> 01:04:45.679 recommendations I'm 01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:49.269 not going to spend a lot of time going through that up here 01:04:49.269 --> 01:04:49.880 let me get my 01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:56.980 bearings real quick I'll probably just hit the highlights 01:04:56.980 --> 01:04:57.599 and then I'll field 01:04:57.599 --> 01:05:01.230 questions on the operational stuff that you've seen there 01:05:01.230 --> 01:05:02.280 are two items that I 01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:04.599 want to hit at the outset and number one is the 01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.320 organizational restructure to 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:09.440 Ron's point I do want to provide a little bit of additional 01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:10.039 texture to that 01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:13.239 in terms of the management restructure really what we look 01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:13.880 at from our 01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:17.110 perspective is that we have an abundance of managers in the 01:05:17.110 --> 01:05:18.239 operation but we also 01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:21.099 have some pressing needs in some areas as you've seen 01:05:21.099 --> 01:05:22.480 through their report in 01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:25.780 terms of helping us to improve planning and operations we 01:05:25.780 --> 01:05:27.159 are proposing adding a 01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:30.429 deputy director position for training and safety we feel 01:05:30.429 --> 01:05:31.480 like that's a key 01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:34.510 point of emphasis for us we don't want to put our drivers 01:05:34.510 --> 01:05:35.599 our employees or the 01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:39.079 public at risk and so we want to bring in a training and 01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:40.400 safety coordinator to 01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:44.150 help coordinate those efforts fleet was a big issue that 01:05:44.150 --> 01:05:45.239 was identified in this 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.820 the timely maintenance of our fleet so we are recommending 01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:48.719 adding some of that 01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:51.170 and we'll bring that forward in the department's budget in 01:05:51.170 --> 01:05:51.679 the next few 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:55.449 weeks in terms of the management positions I think one of 01:05:55.449 --> 01:05:56.320 the things I 01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:58.789 would say is we have an abundance of really good people at 01:05:58.789 --> 01:05:59.519 our side and we 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:02.590 want to make sure that we handle this with care and that we 01:06:02.590 --> 01:06:03.679 approach this in 01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:06.050 fairness and that we try to take care of our employees as 01:06:06.050 --> 01:06:07.199 best we can a few 01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:09.119 things that we want to try to see out of the organizational 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:09.679 restructure is 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:12.530 improving communication when you have multiple layers of 01:06:12.530 --> 01:06:13.599 management sometimes 01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:16.690 it's like the game of telephone in grade school is the 01:06:16.690 --> 01:06:18.320 messages don't always get 01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:20.849 up and down the chain of command as well as they should and 01:06:20.849 --> 01:06:21.519 that's one of the 01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:24.059 things that I've kind of seen in my time there and I think 01:06:24.059 --> 01:06:25.119 Ron and Neil picked up 01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:27.989 on some of that as well right now we have basically 01:06:27.989 --> 01:06:29.440 supervisor by committee so 01:06:29.440 --> 01:06:32.739 a lot of our collections operators in particular they have 01:06:32.739 --> 01:06:34.119 four supervisors and 01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.829 what ends up happening is when you don't have just one 01:06:36.829 --> 01:06:38.059 person where you can go 01:06:38.059 --> 01:06:41.429 talk to the communication can sometimes overlap sometimes 01:06:41.429 --> 01:06:42.679 there's a difference 01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:45.639 in opinion on what action should be taken and it really 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:46.960 slows us down as 01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:49.739 unnecessary so we're gonna be correcting that too overall 01:06:49.739 --> 01:06:51.079 we are really trying to 01:06:51.079 --> 01:06:53.440 take a hard look at redefining job descriptions and job 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:54.280 responsibilities 01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.559 especially in lieu of some of the things that we heard from 01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:59.079 Blue Ridge so our 01:06:59.079 --> 01:07:01.599 plan is to to begin the organizational restructure 01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:02.719 immediately and then try to 01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:06.989 have that wrapped up before the turn of the fiscal year in 01:07:06.989 --> 01:07:08.039 terms of the program 01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:11.590 recommendations these are not as simple as turnkey we 01:07:11.590 --> 01:07:12.280 certainly want to make 01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:14.840 sure that the public utilities board as well as the council 01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:15.800 have an opportunity 01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:18.559 to weigh in on these so what we're proposing from a 01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:19.599 management standpoint is 01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.519 that we supplement the analysis that Blue Ridge has done 01:07:22.519 --> 01:07:23.320 that I think they've 01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:26.760 done a fantastic job in a very short period of time more 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:27.719 than anything else 01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:30.010 some of the recommendations like the recycling audit is we 01:07:30.010 --> 01:07:30.760 really need to get 01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:33.880 out boots on the ground do our own audit take a little bit 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:34.840 more time with it and 01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:37.920 then look and see what are those results really telling us 01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:38.440 you know should we 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:41.789 expand our route size should we try to adjust our program 01:07:41.789 --> 01:07:43.320 in some manner what 01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:45.199 we want to do is make basically maintain the good 01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:46.719 components of our programs while 01:07:46.719 --> 01:07:50.380 making them as efficient as they can be so so after that 01:07:50.380 --> 01:07:51.760 analysis is done we 01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:54.099 want to circle back to the board as well as the City 01:07:54.099 --> 01:07:55.280 Council provide you the 01:07:55.280 --> 01:07:58.219 results of our analysis which will be financial feasibility 01:07:58.219 --> 01:07:58.920 operational 01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:02.900 efficiency and then seek direction we do have one on on the 01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:04.079 presentation this 01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:06.199 evening that I'll get to in just a second what I've 01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:07.559 included down here some 01:08:07.559 --> 01:08:10.449 of the major program recommendations that Neil and Ron made 01:08:10.449 --> 01:08:11.039 is kind of a 01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:13.800 schedule for us coming back to the board and the council 01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:15.699 for discussion I think 01:08:15.699 --> 01:08:17.590 what we've tried to do in terms of organizing these and we 01:08:17.590 --> 01:08:18.039 're open to 01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:21.899 comment is to take the largest in terms of the financial 01:08:21.899 --> 01:08:23.479 commitment and some of 01:08:23.479 --> 01:08:27.750 the more inefficient programs that warrant quick inspection 01:08:27.750 --> 01:08:28.319 particularly 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:30.609 for BMR and robo processing I think the question we're 01:08:30.609 --> 01:08:31.680 gonna be asking the board 01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:34.670 and the council is do we want to continue with this in our 01:08:34.670 --> 01:08:35.520 budget or do we 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:37.619 want to try to start making some adjustments before we come 01:08:37.619 --> 01:08:38.079 back to you 01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:44.260 this summer so let's dive into that real quick in terms of 01:08:44.260 --> 01:08:46.199 rubble slash BMR and I 01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.550 think you are definitely served and kind of taking a look 01:08:48.550 --> 01:08:49.159 at these as two 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:51.699 separate entities because I think that's ultimately what we 01:08:51.699 --> 01:08:52.760 probably end with in 01:08:52.760 --> 01:08:56.310 terms of a recommendation we kind of validated what Blue 01:08:56.310 --> 01:08:57.520 Ridge's results were 01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:01.109 we found that diversion was actually 10% on both of those 01:09:01.109 --> 01:09:02.520 operations give or take 01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:05.819 for rubble over the last five years we've accepted over 300 01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:07.840 ,000 tons I'll 01:09:07.840 --> 01:09:09.720 show you a photo of some of the stockpiles that we have out 01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:10.079 there in a 01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:13.420 moment but it is significant in a lot of cases you kind of 01:09:13.420 --> 01:09:14.239 look at this as 01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:18.289 inventory if you will and like Ron or like Neil was saying 01:09:18.289 --> 01:09:19.760 is if this sits on 01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:21.970 the ground long enough it's going to be required to be 01:09:21.970 --> 01:09:23.319 reprocessed and 01:09:23.319 --> 01:09:26.760 resorted and at that point this isn't an asset anymore it's 01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:27.760 actually a liability 01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:31.060 and we put some dollar amounts to that in just a moment and 01:09:31.060 --> 01:09:32.159 I want to revisit 01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:35.380 my statement from earlier is if our goal for both rubble 01:09:35.380 --> 01:09:36.880 and BMR processing is to 01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:39.869 divert materials away and safely and fill airspace we have 01:09:39.869 --> 01:09:41.199 a decision to make at 01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:44.600 the gate is do we want to accept this material or not 01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:46.500 unlike waste that we 01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:49.159 serve the community in the surrounding area with rubble and 01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:49.960 asphalt we have a 01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:52.869 decision and we can either price it to make sure that we're 01:09:52.869 --> 01:09:53.760 only accepting 01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:56.949 exactly what we need or do we just put a sign up that says 01:09:56.949 --> 01:09:57.720 we're not accepting 01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:01.989 that there are other alternatives for other operations to 01:10:01.989 --> 01:10:03.279 exploit in addition 01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:05.590 what you want to see with these operations is if you're 01:10:05.590 --> 01:10:06.239 hitting your 01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:09.079 diversion targets are you recovering the the expense 01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:10.319 through sales revenue 01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:13.199 doesn't always pay to recycle sometimes it's about doing 01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:14.239 the right thing and I 01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:16.489 think what we want to try to put in front of the board and 01:10:16.489 --> 01:10:17.199 the council is 01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:20.399 there's dollars and cents associated with this we're not as 01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:21.319 we're not trying 01:10:21.319 --> 01:10:24.649 to eliminate a program that both the board or the council 01:10:24.649 --> 01:10:25.720 wants to keep but 01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:28.319 we owe it to you all to be very candid and very upfront 01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:29.319 about here are the 01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:32.149 facts of how the program is performing here's the cost 01:10:32.149 --> 01:10:34.000 associated with it so 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.159 on both of these you can see that we we've diverted about 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:37.920 10% for the rubble 01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:40.739 that is particularly troublesome because now we have an 01:10:40.739 --> 01:10:42.359 asset or liability that 01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:44.449 we have to try to move off site and it's going to be it's 01:10:44.449 --> 01:10:45.239 going to be a tough 01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:48.880 task here are some of the rubble stockpiles that we have at 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:49.560 the facility 01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:52.960 here on the left as Ron mentioned earlier you have the soil 01:10:52.960 --> 01:10:54.079 on the back 01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:57.560 and it's kind of impeding into the unprocessed rubble here 01:10:57.560 --> 01:10:58.680 's kind of gives 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:01.970 you an idea of the scale of the stockpile here with some of 01:11:01.970 --> 01:11:02.439 our equipment 01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:07.479 this is actually processed concrete here that's that's into 01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:08.720 aggregate and so 01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:11.039 we've had this stockpile for the better part of the year 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:11.960 since I've been out 01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:15.819 there we really don't have a material right now in that 01:11:15.819 --> 01:11:16.600 stockpile that's 01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:19.640 meeting spec for a lot of large construction operations to 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:20.439 use we've had 01:11:20.439 --> 01:11:23.279 some some folks kind of poke around and see if they could 01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:24.359 use it and unfortunately 01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:28.109 we just haven't been able to move it off site so with this 01:11:28.109 --> 01:11:29.800 we have kind of a 01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:34.119 challenge ahead of us is if we do not move this off site I 01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:35.319 'm going to draw your 01:11:35.319 --> 01:11:38.140 attention to the bottom right hand corner here the realized 01:11:38.140 --> 01:11:39.279 airspace savings 01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:42.760 we can apply basically a cost per cubic yard that's the 01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:44.319 revenue that we bring in 01:11:44.319 --> 01:11:47.680 for a cubic yard of airspace and so at that 10% diversion 01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:48.680 rate you know it 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:51.239 looks like we've saved about 1.4 million dollars in terms 01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:52.399 of these operations 01:11:52.399 --> 01:11:55.750 combined if we're unable to move that rubble off site we 01:11:55.750 --> 01:11:56.800 may actually end up 01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:00.119 consuming about 6.2 million dollars worth of airspace and 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.239 so again if we're 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:04.680 looking at what is the purpose of these operations if 01:12:04.680 --> 01:12:06.880 saving airspace is a top 01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:09.819 priority we need to be very careful about what we allow 01:12:09.819 --> 01:12:11.039 into our facility and 01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:14.020 the stuff that needs to be here the municipal solid waste 01:12:14.020 --> 01:12:14.920 to the building 01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:17.479 materials that's where our diversion efforts really need to 01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:18.159 be focused to be 01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:22.979 staff's recommendation to go back to the overall financials 01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:24.159 of this the rubble 01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:27.060 slash BMR budget for fiscal year 18 19 we're projecting a 01:12:27.060 --> 01:12:28.359 loss of about 2.4 01:12:28.359 --> 01:12:32.279 million dollars what that means that loss equates to if you 01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:32.800 break that out 01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:36.600 over our traditional diversion rate is it cost us about 383 01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:37.800 dollars per ton to 01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:40.619 divert material understand that it's and I'm not saying to 01:12:40.619 --> 01:12:41.760 dispose of things in 01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:44.960 the landfill other diversion operations are much more 01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:48.079 economical in that 323 01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:51.560 dollars not 383 I apologize understand that it cost us 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:53.199 about 38 dollars per 01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:56.329 ton to dispose of material so it's almost a tenfold 01:12:56.329 --> 01:12:57.359 increase in the 01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:01.039 diversion for these two operations our approach from a 01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:02.680 staff standpoint over 01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:04.779 here is kind of the historical losses on that I don't need 01:13:04.779 --> 01:13:05.560 to belabor the point 01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:08.649 our recommendation would be to at least for the time being 01:13:08.649 --> 01:13:09.880 eliminate the rubble 01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:13.010 operation we do not need to accept any additional concrete 01:13:13.010 --> 01:13:14.199 or asphalt we're 01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:17.149 gonna have a hard time continuing with the asset slash 01:13:17.149 --> 01:13:18.479 liability that we have 01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:22.069 on site from the building materials recovery I think Neil 01:13:22.069 --> 01:13:22.960 put it really well 01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:26.189 is we need to reevaluate how we're going about that 01:13:26.189 --> 01:13:28.359 operation we have a number of 01:13:28.359 --> 01:13:31.819 issues on site I took a photo this morning as I entered the 01:13:31.819 --> 01:13:33.359 facility about 01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:36.640 illegal dumping this is our recycling drop-off site on the 01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:37.920 corner of May Hill 01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:41.689 this is this is not an extraordinary day this is another 01:13:41.689 --> 01:13:43.100 day at the office coming 01:13:43.100 --> 01:13:46.329 into our facility is unfortunately folks aren't using this 01:13:46.329 --> 01:13:47.880 responsibly and so 01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:50.939 what we would propose is let's eliminate some of the more 01:13:50.939 --> 01:13:52.199 costly components of 01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:54.649 the building materials recovery operation namely a lot of 01:13:54.649 --> 01:13:55.319 the big pieces 01:13:55.319 --> 01:13:59.079 of equipment let's repurpose that as a public drop-off area 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:00.359 it would be a man 01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:04.630 site where we can divert what's what's reasonable to divert 01:14:04.630 --> 01:14:05.880 shedding some of the 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:09.470 cost but also moving the recycling drop-off site behind the 01:14:09.470 --> 01:14:11.439 gate and really 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:14.159 unfortunately when you have a situation like this none of 01:14:14.159 --> 01:14:15.279 this is probably 01:14:15.279 --> 01:14:20.229 getting recycled we've run a few loads through Pratt on 01:14:20.229 --> 01:14:21.399 these sites and it's up 01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:25.670 to 80 90 percent contamination and it's really unfair to 01:14:25.670 --> 01:14:26.479 the folks that are 01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:29.210 using those sites responsibly that this is happening but I 01:14:29.210 --> 01:14:30.000 think that's an 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:34.279 opportunity for us to address a few problems all at once by 01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:34.920 by repurposing 01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:38.949 that operation the reason why we're asking for that is we 01:14:38.949 --> 01:14:40.039 are going to be 01:14:40.039 --> 01:14:42.340 coming back to the board and the council within the next 01:14:42.340 --> 01:14:43.279 few weeks to talk about 01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:46.260 number one our budget but also understand that any loss 01:14:46.260 --> 01:14:47.159 that we take in 01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:50.359 an operation like the BMR or rebel processing that has to 01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:51.000 be made up 01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:54.220 somewhere in our operation in terms of revenue and that 01:14:54.220 --> 01:14:55.119 requires rate 01:14:55.119 --> 01:14:58.880 subsidization if we were to step away from these operations 01:14:58.880 --> 01:14:59.399 and try to 01:14:59.399 --> 01:15:02.510 extract ourselves from some of the costly equipment 01:15:02.510 --> 01:15:03.960 components you probably 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:06.850 have very minimal upfront savings you're still going to 01:15:06.850 --> 01:15:07.960 have to contend with some 01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:10.869 debt service on the equipment but by year five you probably 01:15:10.869 --> 01:15:11.600 stepped away from 01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:15.420 sixty to seventy five percent of the expense so I know that 01:15:15.420 --> 01:15:16.560 's a lot to take 01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:20.170 in I'm talking really fast but I wanted to kind of put that 01:15:20.170 --> 01:15:21.079 out there this 01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:25.779 evening and just kind of take the public utilities boards 01:15:25.779 --> 01:15:27.239 guidance on that 01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:36.359 comments I agree to eliminate the rubble that's that's not 01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:37.479 a solid waste issue 01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:41.329 that's that's outside of what our core services should have 01:15:41.329 --> 01:15:42.520 been I'm not sure 01:15:42.520 --> 01:15:46.310 how we got into that but that's that's not handling mixed 01:15:46.310 --> 01:15:47.600 municipal solid waste 01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:51.869 and we'll be more yes and I think reconfiguring we can make 01:15:51.869 --> 01:15:52.239 that more 01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:55.880 effective I think we want to protect the diversion rate but 01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:56.479 understand on the 01:15:56.479 --> 01:15:59.510 rebel if we don't accept it it's already diverted and right 01:15:59.510 --> 01:16:00.520 now we're losing air 01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:09.020 space as a result of that operation so do we have some 01:16:09.020 --> 01:16:11.119 financials that show us 01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:15.789 like each year how we did I mean I know I've gone out there 01:16:15.789 --> 01:16:16.600 and the rubble has 01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:21.220 been gone and the pile gets built up again and then it goes 01:16:21.220 --> 01:16:23.119 away so is there 01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:26.390 you know before we pull the trigger on any decisions is 01:16:26.390 --> 01:16:27.640 there a way we can see 01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:31.909 I mean did we lose a customer and that's no longer buying 01:16:31.909 --> 01:16:33.600 it from us anymore is 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:35.750 that what's happened I mean something's had to have 01:16:35.750 --> 01:16:36.819 happened or we would have 01:16:36.819 --> 01:16:39.600 realized this three years ago that it was not a money- 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:41.439 making or not profitable 01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:46.119 situation it's a in terms of our evaluation and the 01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:47.319 challenge in terms of 01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:50.170 our budget and we'll talk more about this in a few weeks is 01:16:50.170 --> 01:16:50.920 a lot of these 01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:54.720 operations were co-mingled under the landfill budget when 01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:55.760 we break this apart 01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:58.590 and we start looking at what were the actual expenses of 01:16:58.590 --> 01:16:59.640 the operation it's 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:02.619 difficult for us to nail down exactly was that expense 01:17:02.619 --> 01:17:04.039 truly for that operation 01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:07.239 was something else what's not difficult to assess is the 01:17:07.239 --> 01:17:08.039 revenue that's coming 01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:12.880 in off of these operations and so this goes back to 2014 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:13.800 the gate revenue is 01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:16.680 essentially what we charged for people entering the 01:17:16.680 --> 01:17:18.399 facility to dispose a rubble 01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:22.090 and or the BMR gate rate or no I'm sorry this is just rub 01:17:22.090 --> 01:17:25.640 ble on this one of the 01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:28.659 challenges or maybe one of the reasons the explanations of 01:17:28.659 --> 01:17:29.680 why that stockpile 01:17:29.680 --> 01:17:33.470 so great is we were charging below gate rates in terms of 01:17:33.470 --> 01:17:35.119 bringing the material 01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:38.239 into the facility and so there was some incentive for some 01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:39.479 of these contractors 01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:44.180 to haul their rubble here in terms of that the commodity 01:17:44.180 --> 01:17:45.840 sales understand that 01:17:45.840 --> 01:17:48.439 these figures up here include sales that we're making to 01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:49.239 ourselves as an 01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:52.170 organization and so as best I can tell we don't have a 01:17:52.170 --> 01:17:53.359 market that's ever 01:17:53.359 --> 01:17:57.050 materialized for this material you know you can certainly 01:17:57.050 --> 01:17:58.199 look at that and say 01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:00.890 we should do a better job of marketing it but I think we 01:18:00.890 --> 01:18:01.800 have what I in my 01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:04.899 estimation would be an inferior product at this stage and 01:18:04.899 --> 01:18:06.039 so we really have our 01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:08.149 work cut out for us to figure out how are we going to move 01:18:08.149 --> 01:18:08.880 this material 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:13.210 off-site and or draw it down as Neil said and use it in our 01:18:13.210 --> 01:18:15.039 operations I think at 01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:17.329 the current burn rate that we have for using this material 01:18:17.329 --> 01:18:18.119 on-site it would 01:18:18.119 --> 01:18:21.489 take us about ten years to burn through the stockpile and 01:18:21.489 --> 01:18:23.159 so it's really going 01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:26.810 to be I think whenever we say eliminate rebel operations we 01:18:26.810 --> 01:18:27.720 're really talking 01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:32.079 about preventing the stockpiles from going any larger and 01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:34.079 before we can get it 01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:36.619 just to allow us an opportunity to get our feet under us to 01:18:36.619 --> 01:18:38.279 really assess can 01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:41.159 we take what we have on-site and make a marketable product 01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:42.039 and if not we need to 01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:44.130 start planning on how we're going to go through that stockp 01:18:44.130 --> 01:18:45.119 ile operationally I 01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:47.710 hope all that makes sense but it's kind of where we are in 01:18:47.710 --> 01:18:48.479 space and time 01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:51.840 thinking through this and so I just thought you said that 01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:53.119 maybe these numbers 01:18:53.119 --> 01:18:57.390 were only rubble or do they include the BMR so the gate 01:18:57.390 --> 01:18:58.560 revenue is only rubble 01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:00.649 because understand the stuff that goes through the BMR we 01:19:00.649 --> 01:19:01.680 're going to accept 01:19:01.680 --> 01:19:04.340 that no matter what and so that's really not a factor of 01:19:04.340 --> 01:19:06.079 the evaluation when you 01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:09.789 look at the BMR making or breaking even what you want to 01:19:09.789 --> 01:19:11.000 see is processing the 01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:13.710 materials and selling the commodities pays for that 01:19:13.710 --> 01:19:15.920 diversion operation from 01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:19.039 rubble you have the opportunity to charge a different rate 01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:19.800 at the gate to 01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:22.109 either accept or not accept the material so you want to 01:19:22.109 --> 01:19:23.520 factor that in do we 01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:28.029 still I'm sorry do we still not take lumber from the BMR 01:19:28.029 --> 01:19:29.560 and grind it and put 01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:33.470 it in our dino dirt the lumber has never been used in that 01:19:33.470 --> 01:19:34.319 operation now there 01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:37.220 was an operation that was canceled in December where the 01:19:37.220 --> 01:19:38.359 ground up lumber was 01:19:38.359 --> 01:19:42.920 being used as compost for liquid products but that was a 01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:44.359 hundred percent 01:19:44.359 --> 01:19:50.630 waste products it was never fully diverted and then back to 01:19:50.630 --> 01:19:51.800 the gate 01:19:51.800 --> 01:19:55.850 revenue we were below market so we ended up being the 01:19:55.850 --> 01:19:57.520 dumping ground because we 01:19:57.520 --> 01:20:00.789 were the cheapest alternative which that's how business 01:20:00.789 --> 01:20:02.920 works that's correct 01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:08.340 yeah and that kind of goes back to you know who's bringing 01:20:08.340 --> 01:20:10.680 it in is it I mean it 01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:13.930 may be worth driving from some other part of the region 01:20:13.930 --> 01:20:15.079 just to bring it if 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:18.560 it's cheaper and you know if we're sitting on ten years 01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:21.159 worth of rubble at 01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:25.720 this point I don't see how you could I mean I guess there 01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:26.520 is a price you could 01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:30.989 take it but I don't know that I mean you're it's costing to 01:20:30.989 --> 01:20:32.680 store it but then 01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:35.529 again I go back to that's not our core service right our 01:20:35.529 --> 01:20:36.640 services right a mix 01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:40.119 municipal solid waste and maybe the idea of accepting rub 01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:41.439 ble is you know we can 01:20:41.439 --> 01:20:46.859 use it for our own bring it in for our own use yes at the 01:20:46.859 --> 01:20:48.319 landfill right but 01:20:48.319 --> 01:20:52.090 not make a doesn't sound like you can make an enterprise 01:20:52.090 --> 01:20:53.560 out of it not not 01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:55.909 currently I mean we were certainly gonna you know kind of 01:20:55.909 --> 01:20:56.880 sharpen our pencils on 01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:59.909 this and see if there's some potential there too I mean we 01:20:59.909 --> 01:21:00.680 've got to deal with 01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:03.359 what we have on site yeah and I think if we find something 01:21:03.359 --> 01:21:04.079 that looks promising 01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:06.609 there we'll certainly run an analysis on it understand that 01:21:06.609 --> 01:21:07.439 a lot of the rubble 01:21:07.439 --> 01:21:10.000 that we process is from the city of Dunn streets department 01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:11.159 and streets projects 01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:16.710 in the city and so what would be ideal is if we can find a 01:21:16.710 --> 01:21:18.359 way to get out from 01:21:18.359 --> 01:21:20.930 underneath the stockpile and take in just enough material 01:21:20.930 --> 01:21:21.479 to suit our 01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:25.380 operational needs at the solid waste department and I think 01:21:25.380 --> 01:21:26.279 like Neil said 01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:28.930 we're over processing that stuff right now to make an 01:21:28.930 --> 01:21:30.199 inferior product and an 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:32.569 attempt to sell it and this doesn't have the operational 01:21:32.569 --> 01:21:33.560 value that we need on 01:21:33.560 --> 01:21:37.020 site either so I think there may be a sweet spot here and 01:21:37.020 --> 01:21:37.880 we're certainly 01:21:37.880 --> 01:21:42.390 going to be exploring that can you go back a couple slides 01:21:42.390 --> 01:21:43.640 to the household 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:47.600 hazardous waste oh you don't need this like never mind I'll 01:21:47.600 --> 01:21:49.199 just ask is there 01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:55.590 any concern that now you know it's valet any concern that 01:21:55.590 --> 01:21:57.319 if we don't do that 01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:00.739 then household hazardous waste is gonna end up in the 01:22:00.739 --> 01:22:02.260 garbage and end up in the 01:22:02.260 --> 01:22:05.529 landfill it's a possibility now and now one of the things 01:22:05.529 --> 01:22:06.960 that I haven't done 01:22:06.960 --> 01:22:09.310 the full analysis on it but we've done some some 01:22:09.310 --> 01:22:10.920 preliminary work and this may 01:22:10.920 --> 01:22:14.210 be a situation what we've done since Neil and Ron Ron side 01:22:14.210 --> 01:22:14.960 is we've actually 01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:17.699 combined the household chemical collection with our 01:22:17.699 --> 01:22:18.479 appliance and 01:22:18.479 --> 01:22:20.689 electronic collection those were kind of two separate 01:22:20.689 --> 01:22:22.520 things before and so what 01:22:22.520 --> 01:22:25.369 we've tried to do is combine those and get more 01:22:25.369 --> 01:22:27.239 participation and so when we 01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:29.359 did that you essentially double up the amount of 01:22:29.359 --> 01:22:30.600 participation that we're 01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:35.250 getting in addition we announced a few weeks ago kind of a 01:22:35.250 --> 01:22:36.199 soft launch if you 01:22:36.199 --> 01:22:39.659 will of dropping off allowing drop-off of materials at the 01:22:39.659 --> 01:22:40.640 side and so we want 01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:42.729 to try to give both of those kind of their day in court and 01:22:42.729 --> 01:22:43.239 see how that 01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:47.920 works in addition reducing from the collection route we run 01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:48.760 some preliminary 01:22:48.760 --> 01:22:51.119 numbers I don't think it's going to make a huge difference 01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:52.079 in terms of the 01:22:52.079 --> 01:22:56.170 overall rates and so I think there may be an opportunity 01:22:56.170 --> 01:22:56.600 with how we've 01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:59.630 structured it now that we may be able to get some better 01:22:59.630 --> 01:23:01.520 results out of it or 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:11.479 down the drain which would be worse yeah I have a few 01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:14.159 questions for you how do we 01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:21.810 come up with a value for a cubic meter of air sure so in 01:23:21.810 --> 01:23:23.199 terms of a cubic yard 01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:27.010 as Neil pointed out during his presentation it's really 01:23:27.010 --> 01:23:27.479 about 01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:30.460 compaction rates right now we're at about 1,100 pounds per 01:23:30.460 --> 01:23:31.600 cubic yard now 01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:34.649 some materials a little bit more dense than others and so 01:23:34.649 --> 01:23:35.720 we we have in terms 01:23:35.720 --> 01:23:37.890 of this analysis adjusted these a little bit concrete's 01:23:37.890 --> 01:23:38.800 much more dense than a 01:23:38.800 --> 01:23:42.239 roll of toilet paper obviously and so whenever you do that 01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:43.319 you can actually 01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:46.760 start assigning a dollar amount we charge per ton as you 01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:47.960 enter the facility 01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:50.529 and so it really becomes a conversion of math equation if 01:23:50.529 --> 01:23:51.479 you will of how much 01:23:51.479 --> 01:23:54.680 can we fit into an average cubic yard and right now we come 01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:56.399 up with about $16 01:23:56.399 --> 01:23:59.840 now that's that's always in flux if we increase our comp 01:23:59.840 --> 01:24:00.960 action rate if we 01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:04.159 change our rates the cost of processing that material it 01:24:04.159 --> 01:24:05.039 can move a little bit 01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:08.460 and so that that's kind of the formula that we've applied 01:24:08.460 --> 01:24:09.880 to this and are and 01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:13.640 the numbers that we use for our purposes are based on 1,100 01:24:13.640 --> 01:24:14.079 pounds 01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:19.579 currently yes that's what we're performing it so is that I 01:24:19.579 --> 01:24:20.159 know we're 01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:25.880 this will come to us the budget yet to come to us finalized 01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:28.560 but you know where 01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:32.510 is where is this going to show up from a right standpoint 01:24:32.510 --> 01:24:33.920 that's a great segue 01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:36.869 I'm going to circle back to the operational stuff and stand 01:24:36.869 --> 01:24:37.119 for 01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:39.329 questions on that but I want to talk a little bit about 01:24:39.329 --> 01:24:40.520 next steps like I said 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:43.630 at the outset we really broke this up into program changes 01:24:43.630 --> 01:24:44.880 operational changes 01:24:44.880 --> 01:24:47.829 unless the board of the council has any concerns about the 01:24:47.829 --> 01:24:48.600 operational 01:24:48.600 --> 01:24:51.600 recommendations we're going to proceed kind of phasing in 01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:52.800 those implementations 01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:55.800 from the programs it will be proceeding with the schedule 01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:56.880 that I gave you all a 01:24:56.880 --> 01:25:02.149 little bit earlier in terms of next steps we do have a cost 01:25:02.149 --> 01:25:02.880 of service which 01:25:02.880 --> 01:25:05.359 is essentially a rate study being performed by new gen 01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:06.880 right now we do 01:25:06.880 --> 01:25:10.569 have that teed up to come back to the pub on July 9th so 01:25:10.569 --> 01:25:11.880 you'll be seeing a 01:25:11.880 --> 01:25:14.100 little bit of the rate implication on some of these 01:25:14.100 --> 01:25:15.520 programs what we've really 01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:17.810 tried to do is parse out all of our operations into 01:25:17.810 --> 01:25:19.039 separate business units 01:25:19.039 --> 01:25:23.479 that allows for easy evaluation of the financials and then 01:25:23.479 --> 01:25:24.199 you can kind of 01:25:24.199 --> 01:25:26.649 carry that over to where does that where does that show up 01:25:26.649 --> 01:25:27.760 in our rates and so 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:31.560 new gen will be providing that discussion shortly following 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:31.760 that we're 01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:35.350 currently scheduled for our department budget presentation 01:25:35.350 --> 01:25:36.880 on July 23rd our 01:25:36.880 --> 01:25:39.609 goal was to have kind of the operational strategic 01:25:39.609 --> 01:25:41.119 discussion with you all on 01:25:41.119 --> 01:25:43.479 council tomorrow come back and show you the rate 01:25:43.479 --> 01:25:45.079 implications and then come back 01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:50.880 with a finalized budget I know there's a great desire there 01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:51.560 has been in the past 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:56.510 and currently and hopefully in the future but to make sure 01:25:56.510 --> 01:25:57.479 that we're doing 01:25:57.479 --> 01:26:02.989 we're innovative in the way we approach our landfill and 01:26:02.989 --> 01:26:05.960 our solid waste as far 01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:13.739 as renewability and doing as much as we can to be good 01:26:13.739 --> 01:26:16.319 stewards of that but you 01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:20.199 know it's just like the mining operation sometimes you have 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:21.800 to look at what the 01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:26.750 real cost is and just weigh the benefit and see if it's you 01:26:26.750 --> 01:26:27.880 know if it's worth 01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:31.359 doing or maybe offering the program in some way I think in 01:26:31.359 --> 01:26:32.680 addition to this I 01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:35.199 know we talked a little bit about financials and what is 01:26:35.199 --> 01:26:35.920 the cost of a 01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:40.319 program and I don't want it to be lost that the we're also 01:26:40.319 --> 01:26:41.760 very much want to 01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:44.359 focus on what is the value what's the participation rate of 01:26:44.359 --> 01:26:45.520 a program are we 01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:47.880 getting good value for those those dollars spent and I 01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:48.880 think kind of like we 01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:52.300 did with the rebel processing tonight is if the name of the 01:26:52.300 --> 01:26:53.199 game is to divert 01:26:53.199 --> 01:26:56.829 stuff away from the landfill is 10% an acceptable rate and 01:26:56.829 --> 01:26:58.000 if that's the case 01:26:58.000 --> 01:27:00.569 then you know this is the cost for that diversion and we 01:27:00.569 --> 01:27:01.720 definitely feel like 01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:06.760 those things it's not all about saving money but it's also 01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:07.640 about making sure 01:27:07.640 --> 01:27:10.760 that the program is performing as expected and bringing 01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:11.680 that back to the 01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:14.819 board and the council on a regular basis so you can either 01:27:14.819 --> 01:27:15.840 give us a stamp of 01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.869 approval or we can go back to the drawing board and work on 01:27:19.869 --> 01:27:20.520 it again 01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:28.310 comments well you know I think I think the three hundred 01:27:28.310 --> 01:27:32.840 twenty three dollars a ton is pretty telling for what you 01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:36.560 know that's kind of the cost of it so is it worth three 01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.649 hundred twenty three dollars a ton to do that that's kind 01:27:40.649 --> 01:27:42.119 of where we come I 01:27:42.119 --> 01:27:45.770 think I think if I've heard the recommendation tonight is 01:27:45.770 --> 01:27:46.119 we will 01:27:46.119 --> 01:27:48.920 certainly go back and start running some numbers on what is 01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:50.159 at least from the 01:27:50.159 --> 01:27:53.300 rebels standpoint what is the next strategy look like like 01:27:53.300 --> 01:27:53.840 I said the 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:56.189 upfront savings may not be significant because the debt 01:27:56.189 --> 01:27:56.800 service on the 01:27:56.800 --> 01:27:59.760 equipment but we'll run out of five-year scenario and then 01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:01.039 we'll also inform our 01:28:01.039 --> 01:28:03.640 rate consultant that that's that's what we need to carry 01:28:03.640 --> 01:28:04.720 forward for your next 01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:07.840 presentation and so if you modify any of those other 01:28:07.840 --> 01:28:08.920 programs we're talking about 01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:11.260 you'll come back to us and we'll discuss that most 01:28:11.260 --> 01:28:12.319 certainly and I think 01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:14.409 especially when it comes to something like curbside 01:28:14.409 --> 01:28:15.520 recycling and programs like 01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:18.279 that you know those are those are near and dear to a lot of 01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:19.199 folks hearts and we 01:28:19.199 --> 01:28:22.220 want to make sure that we have good data for you I think 01:28:22.220 --> 01:28:23.439 Neil and Ron did a 01:28:23.439 --> 01:28:26.720 tremendous amount of work with their short time on on site 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:27.880 some of this is 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.470 going to be a little bit more involved to where we really 01:28:30.470 --> 01:28:31.439 need to get out there 01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:33.529 and understand what we're dealing with in the community so 01:28:33.529 --> 01:28:34.760 I would expect a lot 01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:37.430 more information coming from us in the next you know six to 01:28:37.430 --> 01:28:38.279 nine months on those 01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:43.409 programs I have a couple more things real quick oh sorry it 01:28:43.409 --> 01:28:45.439 seems like a while 01:28:45.439 --> 01:28:50.680 back we approved cameras for our the recycling places the 01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:51.680 self-serve 01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:55.949 recycling places we thought we approved some kind of 01:28:55.949 --> 01:28:57.279 monitoring system for those 01:28:57.279 --> 01:29:03.760 places we have cameras on this site right here 01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:05.800 unfortunately one of the 01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:07.720 things we may need to talk about is what does enforcement 01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:08.239 look like for 01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:11.460 illegal dumping and unfortunately the cameras that we have 01:29:11.460 --> 01:29:12.359 out there we've 01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:15.579 tried to you know pull a license plate or something and the 01:29:15.579 --> 01:29:16.680 film quality is not 01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:19.319 good enough for us to do that I think that's certainly 01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:20.359 something that we would 01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:23.949 want to explore especially if we this drop-off site is is 01:29:23.949 --> 01:29:25.159 probably I mean it's 01:29:25.159 --> 01:29:28.840 problematic fortunately it's on our site and so we can do 01:29:28.840 --> 01:29:29.319 something pretty 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:32.649 immediate about it some of our remote drop-off sites we don 01:29:32.649 --> 01:29:33.079 't want to eliminate 01:29:33.079 --> 01:29:36.100 those but what we may be talking about is how do we how do 01:29:36.100 --> 01:29:37.439 we improve or prevent 01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:40.560 illegal dumping from happening because it's it's really a 01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:41.640 drag on the program 01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:45.550 whenever those those canisters come in and it's 90% 01:29:45.550 --> 01:29:46.399 contamination it defeats 01:29:46.399 --> 01:29:50.670 the purpose we at one point in time I believe that was it 01:29:50.670 --> 01:29:51.560 might have been with 01:29:51.560 --> 01:29:54.960 the police department there was a truck and a person who 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:56.439 drove around and there 01:29:56.439 --> 01:29:59.920 was a number you could call like you know 390 dump or 01:29:59.920 --> 01:30:01.159 something like that to 01:30:01.159 --> 01:30:04.949 report illegal dumping perhaps in the organizational rest 01:30:04.949 --> 01:30:05.720 ructuring there'll be 01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:09.310 some money for something like that it's a good thought this 01:30:09.310 --> 01:30:10.039 is notorious 01:30:10.039 --> 01:30:13.279 everywhere in the country you have a drop-off you get junk 01:30:13.279 --> 01:30:14.439 yeah you either 01:30:14.439 --> 01:30:17.000 got a manate or have some enforcement measures or secure it 01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:17.560 in some way 01:30:17.560 --> 01:30:23.340 somewhere yeah and now I forgot oh I do I do remember my 01:30:23.340 --> 01:30:24.800 question um not that we 01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:28.479 would change out trucks but what is your opinion on the 01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:29.720 trucks that are both a 01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:33.050 recycling and a garbage truck all in one so you're making 01:30:33.050 --> 01:30:35.680 one pass is that I mean 01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:40.500 it's it's been popular then it's not been popular then you 01:30:40.500 --> 01:30:42.159 know plus the 01:30:42.159 --> 01:30:47.109 wear and tear on the streets do you mean a split body truck 01:30:47.109 --> 01:30:50.319 that yeah yes I 01:30:50.319 --> 01:30:54.279 learned something every day in this industry I was not a 01:30:54.279 --> 01:30:56.119 fan of split body 01:30:56.119 --> 01:31:00.779 trucks because one side packs usually packs out before the 01:31:00.779 --> 01:31:02.239 other side either 01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:05.869 the garbage packs out first or the recycling packs out but 01:31:05.869 --> 01:31:06.560 I just was 01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:10.439 working with a company where they have actually and you 01:31:10.439 --> 01:31:11.279 might even want to 01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:14.350 consider this even if you don't go to that they have four 01:31:14.350 --> 01:31:15.880 axle trucks that 01:31:15.880 --> 01:31:19.369 they run on the street and they're getting nine and a half 01:31:19.369 --> 01:31:20.920 tons in a split 01:31:20.920 --> 01:31:25.250 body truck and I'm going whoa how did that happen but that 01:31:25.250 --> 01:31:26.159 's what they get I 01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:30.069 guess they've done a great job in training their their 01:31:30.069 --> 01:31:31.359 drivers to to do it 01:31:31.359 --> 01:31:34.069 the right way but they got great results and yes that's 01:31:34.069 --> 01:31:34.800 definitely a 01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:40.430 consideration and there's one truck less that goes down the 01:31:40.430 --> 01:31:42.439 street just have to 01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:45.119 work out the math on it and see if that works for you but 01:31:45.119 --> 01:31:46.319 that's definitely an 01:31:46.319 --> 01:31:52.680 opportunity for you okay thank you any other questions or 01:31:52.680 --> 01:31:55.199 comments for Ethan 01:31:55.199 --> 01:32:04.600 no thank you for your time thank you appreciate it okay 01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:10.020 item B is to receive a report hold a discussion and give 01:32:10.020 --> 01:32:11.760 staff direction 01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:15.619 regarding the air emissions testing at Nitten Energy Center 01:32:15.619 --> 01:32:16.520 conducted by 01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:29.539 Black and Beach Corporation I wanted to say I counted 282, 01:32:29.539 --> 01:32:30.720 000 numbers in there 01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:35.039 but I'd be just kidding George Morrow DME general manager 01:32:35.039 --> 01:32:36.600 pleased to be here 01:32:36.600 --> 01:32:39.619 today to let you know that we've completed the emissions 01:32:39.619 --> 01:32:40.520 testing for the 01:32:40.520 --> 01:32:44.270 Denton Energy Center Black and Beach was owner engineer for 01:32:44.270 --> 01:32:45.079 us and they were 01:32:45.079 --> 01:32:48.819 responsible for contracting for the testing services and to 01:32:48.819 --> 01:32:49.560 evaluate and 01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:52.590 manage the report have a couple of gentlemen who are with 01:32:52.590 --> 01:32:54.039 us today Paul Lee 01:32:54.039 --> 01:32:57.949 and Stephen Baker from Black and Beach their air quality 01:32:57.949 --> 01:32:59.319 engineers and they 01:32:59.319 --> 01:33:02.340 have a I think compared to what we just heard a short 01:33:02.340 --> 01:33:05.159 presentation not a short 01:33:05.159 --> 01:33:16.409 report Paul you want to good evening and thank you guys for 01:33:16.409 --> 01:33:19.840 having me again so 01:33:19.840 --> 01:33:23.079 the agenda is pretty simple we're just going to provide you 01:33:23.079 --> 01:33:24.000 an overview of the 01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:28.270 testing that we did and then obviously give you a high 01:33:28.270 --> 01:33:30.720 level results of the 01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:33.069 emissions tests and then I'm going to hand over to George 01:33:33.069 --> 01:33:33.840 and he's going to 01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:36.250 just talk about some of the paths forward for the Denton 01:33:36.250 --> 01:33:37.720 Energy Center so 01:33:37.720 --> 01:33:39.810 again my name is Paul Lee I'm an air quality engineer with 01:33:39.810 --> 01:33:41.000 Black and Beach to 01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:43.640 go over the roles of the different entities that were 01:33:43.640 --> 01:33:44.479 involved in the 01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:48.149 project Black and Beach we were hired as the owner's 01:33:48.149 --> 01:33:49.920 engineer the engineer on the 01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:52.770 project was Burns McDonald and as OE we basically just 01:33:52.770 --> 01:33:54.079 checked some of the work 01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:57.159 that he did also included in our scope was the emissions 01:33:57.159 --> 01:33:59.720 testing Black and 01:33:59.720 --> 01:34:03.310 Beach we were an international firm we work in many 01:34:03.310 --> 01:34:05.319 industries but power had 01:34:05.319 --> 01:34:07.840 was I think classically back in the day what we really 01:34:07.840 --> 01:34:09.079 caught our teeth in and 01:34:09.079 --> 01:34:12.409 with that we had to demonstrate the emissions testing to 01:34:12.409 --> 01:34:13.399 prove that we mean 01:34:13.399 --> 01:34:16.250 the permits of state federal regulations and the contracts 01:34:16.250 --> 01:34:17.159 that we signed with 01:34:17.159 --> 01:34:21.020 different manufacturers so we were hired on as to to 01:34:21.020 --> 01:34:23.239 overview or have oversight of 01:34:23.239 --> 01:34:28.189 the emissions testers we contracted with our hygiene air 01:34:28.189 --> 01:34:29.359 hygiene is one of the 01:34:29.359 --> 01:34:31.970 nation's leaders in emissions testing they're accredited by 01:34:31.970 --> 01:34:32.920 the source testing 01:34:32.920 --> 01:34:36.359 accreditation council or stack they're accredited as an air 01:34:36.359 --> 01:34:37.359 emissions testing 01:34:37.359 --> 01:34:43.039 body a TB and as part of that they have QA test plans that 01:34:43.039 --> 01:34:44.000 you have to have 01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:46.800 reviewed they have audits every other year so there's a 01:34:46.800 --> 01:34:48.439 fair amount of clout 01:34:48.439 --> 01:34:55.180 that they have that they have by being a TB also within our 01:34:55.180 --> 01:34:56.920 hygiene they brought 01:34:56.920 --> 01:34:59.930 many people on site to do the testing because we have 12 01:34:59.930 --> 01:35:00.920 engines and we're 01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.960 working pretty hardcore around the clock there's something 01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:06.119 called a qualified 01:35:06.119 --> 01:35:09.340 stack testing individual or QSTI a lot of times testing 01:35:09.340 --> 01:35:11.039 programs will have you 01:35:11.039 --> 01:35:14.439 know one or two of them and underneath the two QSTI so that 01:35:14.439 --> 01:35:15.439 act as managers 01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:18.470 there's a just qualified individuals but on this project we 01:35:18.470 --> 01:35:19.600 were fortunate not to 01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:23.869 have five QSTIs to be a QSTI one you had to demonstrate 01:35:23.869 --> 01:35:25.560 competency but the main 01:35:25.560 --> 01:35:28.569 way you do that is by passing a test every five years you 01:35:28.569 --> 01:35:29.800 have to re pass 01:35:29.800 --> 01:35:33.260 that test and there's a set of tests that you do in order 01:35:33.260 --> 01:35:35.000 to be a QSTI so 01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:38.170 those are the companies that we that were involved in the 01:35:38.170 --> 01:35:39.640 project just 01:35:39.640 --> 01:35:42.869 something to note air hygiene they're pretty familiar with 01:35:42.869 --> 01:35:44.399 rices not just 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:46.640 words little races but all type of races but they 01:35:46.640 --> 01:35:48.479 specifically as a nationwide 01:35:48.479 --> 01:35:54.130 firm have done and counting 55 words all projects some of 01:35:54.130 --> 01:35:55.840 them ranging from one 01:35:55.840 --> 01:35:59.859 engine to the dead engine center which was obviously 12 I 01:35:59.859 --> 01:36:01.479 was told at your last 01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:05.479 board meeting there are some questions regarding NSPS and N 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:06.800 ACS so just want to 01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:11.939 take a quick side and try to explain at a high level those 01:36:11.939 --> 01:36:14.600 two terms so NSPS is 01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:18.960 new source performance standards oftentimes you'll hear 40 01:36:18.960 --> 01:36:20.680 CFR 60 those 01:36:20.680 --> 01:36:23.720 are the same thing so new source performance standards were 01:36:23.720 --> 01:36:25.760 a very long 01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:31.319 set of federal regulations that were passed way back when 01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:32.640 that are technology 01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:35.560 based so if you're a waste incinerator you're covered under 01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:36.399 NSPS if you're a 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:39.829 coal fire power plant you have a different section in this 01:36:39.829 --> 01:36:41.000 PS that same 01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:44.390 also applies for rices as we have here so there are some 01:36:44.390 --> 01:36:45.840 federal regulations 01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:51.779 based on tick the technology you are that fall under NSPS N 01:36:51.779 --> 01:36:54.880 ACS is related but 01:36:54.880 --> 01:37:00.380 a different term and different regulations so next stands 01:37:00.380 --> 01:37:01.079 for national 01:37:01.079 --> 01:37:05.350 ambient air quality standards so that is what the EPA has 01:37:05.350 --> 01:37:06.880 set for seven criteria 01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:10.850 pollutants the term criteria pollutants are just pollutants 01:37:10.850 --> 01:37:11.840 that they have 01:37:11.840 --> 01:37:14.770 identified that they feel are detrimental to or can be 01:37:14.770 --> 01:37:16.520 detrimental to human health 01:37:16.520 --> 01:37:21.770 so they have mandated a certain emission limit well not 01:37:21.770 --> 01:37:22.760 mission limit but just an 01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:26.850 ambient air limit and that's it the individual states have 01:37:26.850 --> 01:37:27.920 to come up with 01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:33.340 an implementation plan to submit to the federal government 01:37:33.340 --> 01:37:35.319 to show the federal 01:37:35.319 --> 01:37:39.189 government how they're going to meet the NACS within the 01:37:39.189 --> 01:37:40.520 state and implementation 01:37:40.520 --> 01:37:44.539 plan that covers a lot of the permits that they provide to 01:37:44.539 --> 01:37:45.920 all facilities so 01:37:45.920 --> 01:37:49.609 that's your power plants again waste incinerators paper 01:37:49.609 --> 01:37:51.079 mills auxiliary 01:37:51.079 --> 01:37:54.479 boilers at mining facilities so the statement of the 01:37:54.479 --> 01:37:55.760 station plan has to 01:37:55.760 --> 01:37:57.890 consider all of those in effect when they submit to the 01:37:57.890 --> 01:37:58.840 federal government so 01:37:58.840 --> 01:38:04.100 those are two sort of parallel federal regulations going on 01:38:04.100 --> 01:38:05.920 hopefully that that 01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:09.210 makes sense at a high level but there are a lot more intric 01:38:09.210 --> 01:38:11.680 acies that I guess 01:38:11.680 --> 01:38:14.199 we'll we'll table for later but please ask me questions if 01:38:14.199 --> 01:38:16.319 you would like any 01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:22.000 right now or okay all right so the testing occurred May 17 01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:22.279 th through May 01:38:22.279 --> 01:38:27.319 20th we try to do four engines a day the test protocol was 01:38:27.319 --> 01:38:28.600 submitted on April 01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:32.869 11th by air hygiene to TCEQ generally you're supposed to 01:38:32.869 --> 01:38:34.199 submit 30 days prior 01:38:34.199 --> 01:38:37.859 to your testing and we did do that no comments were 01:38:37.859 --> 01:38:40.000 received from the TCEQ and 01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:42.680 that's pretty standard most states don't ever comment 01:38:42.680 --> 01:38:43.399 unless they have a problem 01:38:43.399 --> 01:38:47.720 with your test protocol silence is implied acceptance TCEQ 01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:48.880 was invited to 01:38:48.880 --> 01:38:51.520 witness firsthand with a representative our emissions 01:38:51.520 --> 01:38:53.000 testing but they chose not 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:57.270 to participate so the the pollutants in the table and the 01:38:57.270 --> 01:38:58.840 EPA methods are shown 01:38:58.840 --> 01:39:04.039 right there we tested knocks CEO VOC's ammonia and PM which 01:39:04.039 --> 01:39:04.399 stands for 01:39:04.399 --> 01:39:09.239 particulate matter going back to NACS I like to just point 01:39:09.239 --> 01:39:09.920 out we actually did 01:39:09.920 --> 01:39:17.239 not test for any NACS however ozone is one the criteria 01:39:17.239 --> 01:39:18.239 pollutants and knocks 01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:23.390 and VOCs are precursors to ozone formation so just in case 01:39:23.390 --> 01:39:24.680 that was ever 01:39:24.680 --> 01:39:28.550 brought up in previous conversations the test durations for 01:39:28.550 --> 01:39:29.720 all the gases knocks 01:39:29.720 --> 01:39:34.119 CEO VOC's and ammonia they were all one hour PM we tested 01:39:34.119 --> 01:39:34.960 for generally two 01:39:34.960 --> 01:39:38.930 hours the reason why I say generally is because we're more 01:39:38.930 --> 01:39:39.880 concerned about the 01:39:39.880 --> 01:39:42.569 volume of sample that we have that's supposed to the actual 01:39:42.569 --> 01:39:44.039 time we try to 01:39:44.039 --> 01:39:49.310 have a sample rate and our nozzle size on a probe adjusted 01:39:49.310 --> 01:39:50.840 to collect a set 01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:53.369 amount of volume within a certain time and we just targeted 01:39:53.369 --> 01:39:54.159 two hours it wasn't 01:39:54.159 --> 01:39:57.010 always two hours but we always did get a minimum sample 01:39:57.010 --> 01:39:58.880 volume of 60 and actually 01:39:58.880 --> 01:40:01.279 we targeted more closer to a hundred sixty is a bare 01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:02.920 minimum that you have to 01:40:02.920 --> 01:40:09.260 sample so we did achieve that yeah of course where it lists 01:40:09.260 --> 01:40:11.000 EPA methods yes are 01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:14.760 there other methods that you could use to run those tests 01:40:14.760 --> 01:40:15.680 or those the 01:40:15.680 --> 01:40:18.529 prescribed methods and you have to use those yeah great 01:40:18.529 --> 01:40:20.000 question um for 01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:24.710 environmental compliance EPA test methods and these EPA 01:40:24.710 --> 01:40:25.640 test methods are 01:40:25.640 --> 01:40:30.039 actually part of NSPS they were promulgated in federal code 01:40:30.039 --> 01:40:31.399 under NSPS 01:40:31.399 --> 01:40:36.130 appendix a of 40 CFR 60 and these test methods are actually 01:40:36.130 --> 01:40:37.119 used internationally 01:40:37.119 --> 01:40:40.369 I mean Canada has theirs I think they come out under a 01:40:40.369 --> 01:40:41.680 different name but 01:40:41.680 --> 01:40:44.920 they're effectively the same thing working projects in Asia 01:40:44.920 --> 01:40:46.119 we use EPA test 01:40:46.119 --> 01:40:52.720 methods from US EPA yeah these are also pretty standard for 01:40:52.720 --> 01:40:53.520 the pollutants like 01:40:53.520 --> 01:40:56.189 there's different methods like method 20 you could use for 01:40:56.189 --> 01:40:57.560 knocks it's very 01:40:57.560 --> 01:41:00.560 similar to method 70 but I would say the vast majority of 01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:01.640 time you can see method 01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:07.140 70 for knocks ammonia we use method 320 you could use 01:41:07.140 --> 01:41:08.319 another method called CTM 01:41:08.319 --> 01:41:13.510 27 both were accepted in the test protocol we submitted to 01:41:13.510 --> 01:41:14.199 the TCEQ we 01:41:14.199 --> 01:41:19.699 said we're gonna use method 320 again this accepted method 01:41:19.699 --> 01:41:20.760 very common 01:41:20.760 --> 01:41:25.199 that's nice are these these methods are they spelled out in 01:41:25.199 --> 01:41:28.439 our TCEQ permit which 01:41:28.439 --> 01:41:33.159 ones we need to use actually no so as a minor source we the 01:41:33.159 --> 01:41:34.279 standard permit that 01:41:34.279 --> 01:41:37.869 TCEQ gave us did not explicitly state which test method you 01:41:37.869 --> 01:41:39.920 had to use so I 01:41:39.920 --> 01:41:43.779 sort of took it upon myself to identify the most common 01:41:43.779 --> 01:41:45.600 methods which are here 01:41:45.600 --> 01:41:50.350 listed again method 320 could be CTM 27 but both are really 01:41:50.350 --> 01:41:53.199 used very commonly 01:41:53.199 --> 01:41:58.239 but I will say even though the permit us being a minor 01:41:58.239 --> 01:42:00.039 source have having a 01:42:00.039 --> 01:42:02.880 standard permit even though it wasn't explicit in it these 01:42:02.880 --> 01:42:04.439 test methods would 01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:08.479 be very much accepted and we again we didn't receive any 01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:09.199 comments back from 01:42:09.199 --> 01:42:13.199 TCEQ saying you should not use 70 you have to use method 20 01:42:13.199 --> 01:42:15.079 right so we went 01:42:15.079 --> 01:42:20.500 forward sorry of course is there any advantage to using one 01:42:20.500 --> 01:42:21.439 method over the 01:42:21.439 --> 01:42:27.250 other either way for air quality or I mean is there any 01:42:27.250 --> 01:42:28.039 advantage either way 01:42:28.039 --> 01:42:34.520 for using to me no especially when we talk about 320 and CT 01:42:34.520 --> 01:42:37.119 M 27 when I 01:42:37.119 --> 01:42:40.479 previously talked about method 20 over 7e I prefer method 01:42:40.479 --> 01:42:43.239 70 because 20 if you 01:42:43.239 --> 01:42:45.979 read it actually just refers to 70 over and over and over 01:42:45.979 --> 01:42:49.119 again I do feel yeah 01:42:49.119 --> 01:42:59.369 it's I think your perspective there yes yes yes yeah anyone 01:42:59.369 --> 01:43:01.680 else good 01:43:02.319 --> 01:43:05.359 thought be a good idea just give you guys a little visual 01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:06.279 of the actual 01:43:06.279 --> 01:43:10.029 apparatus and the equipment that we we did might not be the 01:43:10.029 --> 01:43:11.119 most exciting can 01:43:11.119 --> 01:43:13.640 you guys see my mouse up there all right great so this 01:43:13.640 --> 01:43:15.720 black line is going to be 01:43:15.720 --> 01:43:19.720 our sample line it's connected to the probe that we have 01:43:19.720 --> 01:43:20.760 stuck into the duck 01:43:20.760 --> 01:43:26.550 work pulling sample gas and is going down into our trailer 01:43:26.550 --> 01:43:27.680 which has our 01:43:27.680 --> 01:43:34.779 analyzers here is our FTIR the FTIR is used for method 320 01:43:34.779 --> 01:43:35.680 measuring ammonia 01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:39.520 it's a actually sort of a sense of machine but we one of 01:43:39.520 --> 01:43:40.640 our QSTIs was 01:43:40.640 --> 01:43:44.060 specialized in analyzers and I'm glad he was around site 01:43:44.060 --> 01:43:45.239 because these are 01:43:45.239 --> 01:43:49.720 sensitive machines they're very precise and they're great 01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:51.000 but they can be a 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:53.420 little sensitive and he was around to make sure it worked 01:43:53.420 --> 01:43:55.560 properly so flue gas 01:43:55.560 --> 01:43:59.609 comes in from the probe probe in the stack into our FTIR 01:43:59.609 --> 01:44:01.079 measures ammonia 01:44:01.079 --> 01:44:06.029 then it goes and is split off into a gas conditioning plate 01:44:06.029 --> 01:44:07.520 here and also to our 01:44:07.520 --> 01:44:10.899 VOC the gas conditioning plate basically just removes 01:44:10.899 --> 01:44:12.920 moisture from your sample 01:44:12.920 --> 01:44:16.779 gas and we want to remove moisture because water can be an 01:44:16.779 --> 01:44:17.960 interference for 01:44:17.960 --> 01:44:20.600 the NOx and the CO analyzer so we have to remove the 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:21.880 moisture and then the 01:44:21.880 --> 01:44:27.630 flue gas goes through there into our thermo NOx CO analy 01:44:27.630 --> 01:44:29.800 zers we don't want 01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:34.390 to move water from flue gas for VOC measurements because VO 01:44:34.390 --> 01:44:35.079 Cs can be 01:44:35.079 --> 01:44:38.010 absorbed by water so if you remove the moisture you could 01:44:38.010 --> 01:44:39.500 get false lows of the 01:44:39.500 --> 01:44:44.210 actual VOC measurements so here are the the lovely analy 01:44:44.210 --> 01:44:45.119 zers that we used 01:44:45.119 --> 01:44:48.560 thermos a lead manufacturer you'll see them often around 01:44:48.560 --> 01:44:50.359 this right here was to 01:44:50.359 --> 01:44:53.840 measure the oxygen concentration that we have used for a 01:44:53.840 --> 01:44:55.100 lot of our calculations 01:44:55.100 --> 01:45:03.300 pretty much the PM sample train was not done through analy 01:45:03.300 --> 01:45:05.039 zers it it never is 01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:07.649 just because particulates a solid you have to collect it 01:45:07.649 --> 01:45:08.640 you have to analyze 01:45:08.640 --> 01:45:13.039 in the laboratory so here's a schematic of what the train 01:45:13.039 --> 01:45:13.880 looks like so here's 01:45:13.880 --> 01:45:17.770 our nozzle this is the only point of entry of flue gas into 01:45:17.770 --> 01:45:19.880 this entire system 01:45:19.880 --> 01:45:23.670 before and after the test we we put a stopper into that 01:45:23.670 --> 01:45:25.199 nozzle and make sure 01:45:25.199 --> 01:45:28.829 that the integrity of that system is is good that there's 01:45:28.829 --> 01:45:29.840 no leaks of ambient 01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:32.899 air coming into our train to dilute the sample that is the 01:45:32.899 --> 01:45:34.640 only source of flue 01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:40.520 gas into our train so as flue gas enters our nozzle here it 01:45:40.520 --> 01:45:42.880 is a filter through a 01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:48.399 filterable particulate matter filter if you see a term FPM 01:45:48.399 --> 01:45:49.920 or ever hear the term 01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:52.750 of front half when talking about emissions testing that's 01:45:52.750 --> 01:45:53.319 what we're 01:45:53.319 --> 01:45:56.439 talking about here the front half or filter filterable 01:45:56.439 --> 01:45:57.840 particulate matter so 01:45:57.840 --> 01:46:03.340 you know commonly like dust rocks what we commonly think of 01:46:03.340 --> 01:46:04.960 PM as for testing 01:46:04.960 --> 01:46:09.960 though with PM there's filterable and condensable condens 01:46:09.960 --> 01:46:11.199 ables are that type 01:46:11.199 --> 01:46:14.170 of particulate matter that isn't really apparent at hotter 01:46:14.170 --> 01:46:15.319 temperatures but once 01:46:15.319 --> 01:46:18.319 you settle down cooler temperatures it condenses out so 01:46:18.319 --> 01:46:20.479 here after the filter 01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:24.739 we go through a vertical condenser we drop out water is 01:46:24.739 --> 01:46:25.960 continuously circulated 01:46:25.960 --> 01:46:28.600 through this little thing coin the flue gas temperature 01:46:28.600 --> 01:46:30.199 down and then as a flue 01:46:30.199 --> 01:46:33.619 gas passes through it CPM or a condensable particulate 01:46:33.619 --> 01:46:35.399 matter will form 01:46:35.399 --> 01:46:39.380 and then be taken out by this filter here this back half is 01:46:39.380 --> 01:46:40.640 actually filled 01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:44.560 with ice to further cool the flue gas down to below the dew 01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:45.720 point so we collect 01:46:45.720 --> 01:46:48.600 all the moisture that's going through the flue gas we want 01:46:48.600 --> 01:46:49.560 the moisture to do 01:46:49.560 --> 01:46:55.600 another calculation for the molecular weight of the flue 01:46:55.600 --> 01:46:57.399 gas the pump here is 01:46:57.399 --> 01:46:59.569 really what's pulling all the flue gas through the train so 01:46:59.569 --> 01:47:00.199 it goes through 01:47:00.199 --> 01:47:04.050 there and the dry gas meter measures how much flue gas we 01:47:04.050 --> 01:47:06.079 're collecting this is 01:47:06.079 --> 01:47:08.729 also important because we measure the pressure drop across 01:47:08.729 --> 01:47:10.140 this peel tube we 01:47:10.140 --> 01:47:12.579 have measurements of it we know the K factor refraction 01:47:12.579 --> 01:47:13.640 factors across that 01:47:13.640 --> 01:47:17.420 peel tube and we could basically do a big calculation to 01:47:17.420 --> 01:47:18.800 figure out how much 01:47:18.800 --> 01:47:24.319 flue gas we're collecting here's a picture of what we 01:47:24.319 --> 01:47:25.760 actually did here's 01:47:25.760 --> 01:47:30.119 our PM probe right there here is the probe that black line 01:47:30.119 --> 01:47:30.640 that was referring 01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:33.359 to in that other schematic that goes all over analyzers it 01:47:33.359 --> 01:47:34.680 is attached to a probe 01:47:34.680 --> 01:47:40.449 sort of hard to see there that's also stuck in this is not 01:47:40.449 --> 01:47:43.279 assembled but this 01:47:43.279 --> 01:47:46.399 is the train that I was referring to here's our our little 01:47:46.399 --> 01:47:47.359 condenser where 01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:53.359 vertical dropout here's a CPM filter and a Pinger's and P 01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:54.640 inger's just being a 01:47:54.640 --> 01:47:59.119 fancy word for classware yeah here are the meter boxes so 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:00.079 this dry gas meter 01:48:00.079 --> 01:48:03.079 that you saw here here's a pump that you saw in the 01:48:03.079 --> 01:48:05.000 schematic we tried to do two 01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:09.439 engines at a time per engine hall there's a North Hall and 01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:10.560 South Hall so 01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:14.600 we're trying to do four at a time so we just had an 01:48:14.600 --> 01:48:16.880 operator here looking at all 01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:19.560 of the measurements and join them down to make sure we're 01:48:19.560 --> 01:48:20.520 on track to collect 01:48:20.520 --> 01:48:26.220 our full sample that we need after we're done with the PM 01:48:26.220 --> 01:48:28.439 sample train we 01:48:28.439 --> 01:48:32.300 actually wash the inside of the probe to make sure that any 01:48:32.300 --> 01:48:33.159 filter will 01:48:33.159 --> 01:48:35.800 particular matter that sort of attached itself inside the 01:48:35.800 --> 01:48:36.680 probe is good gets 01:48:36.680 --> 01:48:40.659 collected we want to collect all the PM that isn't in the 01:48:40.659 --> 01:48:42.380 flue gas we also wash 01:48:42.380 --> 01:48:46.039 all of the impinges as well and so these bottles that you 01:48:46.039 --> 01:48:47.279 see here have the 01:48:47.279 --> 01:48:50.220 washes from all of our samples well a portion of our 01:48:50.220 --> 01:48:52.520 samples and these here 01:48:52.520 --> 01:48:56.380 these little black things are actually are filterable PM 01:48:56.380 --> 01:48:58.520 filters they look 01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:03.069 dirty but um from my previous experiences with other rice 01:49:03.069 --> 01:49:04.000 engines as 01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:09.859 well as with air hygiene engines that's not not actually PM 01:49:09.859 --> 01:49:11.399 that's on the on 01:49:11.399 --> 01:49:15.029 those basically the temperature of the flue gas from the 01:49:15.029 --> 01:49:17.640 rice is so hot and if 01:49:17.640 --> 01:49:22.079 you ever get out to site and then feel it it's hot that the 01:49:22.079 --> 01:49:23.920 the filter itself 01:49:23.920 --> 01:49:27.529 starts to char it's not burning burning you're not gonna 01:49:27.529 --> 01:49:29.199 see any flames but yeah 01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:31.680 there's a charring effect that you see on the filter 01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:32.840 surface just due to 01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:36.279 temperature these filters are weighed in a laboratory 01:49:36.279 --> 01:49:37.720 before we do testing and 01:49:37.720 --> 01:49:40.479 after we do testing their weight again and sure enough 01:49:40.479 --> 01:49:41.000 there was no 01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:44.189 appreciable matter on these FPM filters so it's actually 01:49:44.189 --> 01:49:47.479 just a charring effect 01:49:48.880 --> 01:49:55.529 and now the moment of truth huh okay so on the left hand 01:49:55.529 --> 01:49:56.880 side there's the engines 01:49:56.880 --> 01:50:00.359 on the top hence top across the columns those are the 01:50:00.359 --> 01:50:02.039 pollutants that we tested 01:50:02.039 --> 01:50:06.420 in parentheses are our permit limits so you'll see 1.33 01:50:06.420 --> 01:50:08.439 pounds per hour is what 01:50:08.439 --> 01:50:16.479 the permit had for NOx VOC is 2.07 ammonia PM 3.17 etc the 01:50:16.479 --> 01:50:17.159 values that you 01:50:17.159 --> 01:50:21.770 see are the average of three tests so for each pollutant on 01:50:21.770 --> 01:50:23.119 each engine we did 01:50:23.119 --> 01:50:26.199 three tests you know one test it's by itself could be a 01:50:26.199 --> 01:50:27.399 false low or false I 01:50:27.399 --> 01:50:30.880 should say false low it could be higher or lower than what 01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:32.199 's indicative of the 01:50:32.199 --> 01:50:35.289 average right so you always want to do three tests confirm 01:50:35.289 --> 01:50:37.079 and get a more of a 01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:42.500 sturdy answer so as you can see the average of the three 01:50:42.500 --> 01:50:44.279 tests for each 01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:49.319 pollutant on each engine is below what the permit had us 01:50:49.319 --> 01:50:54.000 limited to yes yes at 01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:56.949 times very significantly below there's one number I would 01:50:56.949 --> 01:50:57.840 like to talk about 01:50:57.840 --> 01:51:00.590 but I just want to give you guys a few seconds to look at 01:51:00.590 --> 01:51:02.119 the table because I I 01:51:02.119 --> 01:51:07.619 know that's a lot of numbers there are you gonna talk you 01:51:07.619 --> 01:51:08.359 're my maybe gonna 01:51:08.359 --> 01:51:13.079 attack the PM numbers yes 2.23 yeah that's a I mean next 01:51:13.079 --> 01:51:15.239 slide okay okay any 01:51:15.239 --> 01:51:19.010 others that you guys would like me to talk about well I 01:51:19.010 --> 01:51:19.600 have a just a strange 01:51:19.600 --> 01:51:22.920 procedural question sure it seems like we spent a long time 01:51:22.920 --> 01:51:24.640 not publishing the 01:51:24.640 --> 01:51:28.010 contract limits and there they write are no these aren't 01:51:28.010 --> 01:51:29.000 the contract don't 01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:32.949 there's the same as work civil contract limits right there 01:51:32.949 --> 01:51:35.119 oh yeah I had 01:51:35.119 --> 01:51:37.329 actually not seen the contract we were never given it but I 01:51:37.329 --> 01:51:39.520 was told that the 01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:43.899 contract limits were used for a permit so they are 01:51:43.899 --> 01:51:46.239 effectively are the same 01:51:46.239 --> 01:51:52.750 okay but that goes back to yeah okay all right so do you 01:51:52.750 --> 01:51:54.279 want my question on the 01:51:54.279 --> 01:51:57.659 PM or you just gonna cover it because isn't that normal 01:51:57.659 --> 01:51:59.159 that you're gonna have 01:51:59.159 --> 01:52:03.430 oils and other things in the construction oh okay all right 01:52:03.430 --> 01:52:04.079 that's what you're 01:52:04.079 --> 01:52:09.090 gonna say no you're a mind reader um so as you can see from 01:52:09.090 --> 01:52:11.239 the previous slide 01:52:11.239 --> 01:52:16.880 all of these values are around one or below and here we 01:52:16.880 --> 01:52:19.640 have 2.23 which is 01:52:19.640 --> 01:52:24.859 double or triple what the other engines were testing yet so 01:52:24.859 --> 01:52:25.840 when we were when 01:52:25.840 --> 01:52:32.859 we were doing the tests the first run on PM on engine one 01:52:32.859 --> 01:52:35.399 the backwash the washes 01:52:35.399 --> 01:52:40.609 on the the back end it was dirty I was looking at it and it 01:52:40.609 --> 01:52:41.359 was just dirty 01:52:41.359 --> 01:52:43.800 compared to the other tests that we had a collect at the 01:52:43.800 --> 01:52:45.479 time it was clearly 01:52:45.479 --> 01:52:49.319 something I'd accumulated in that engine when we ran test 01:52:49.319 --> 01:52:51.239 two and test three that 01:52:51.239 --> 01:52:54.460 day and we got those results back they look clear just like 01:52:54.460 --> 01:52:55.159 all the other 01:52:55.159 --> 01:52:58.359 engines had now in my experience whether you're talking 01:52:58.359 --> 01:52:59.399 about combustion turbines 01:52:59.399 --> 01:53:04.149 or rises you try to circumvent it by having the engines run 01:53:04.149 --> 01:53:05.000 for a certain 01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:09.050 amount of time but it's common that residual grease is like 01:53:09.050 --> 01:53:10.199 literally from 01:53:10.199 --> 01:53:13.220 construction workers gloves or act the actual lubricants 01:53:13.220 --> 01:53:14.159 that are intentionally 01:53:14.159 --> 01:53:19.380 placed inside the equipment those need to burn off and you 01:53:19.380 --> 01:53:20.800 try to run the 01:53:20.800 --> 01:53:23.010 engines or the turbines for a certain amount of time to 01:53:23.010 --> 01:53:24.359 burn all of that off 01:53:24.359 --> 01:53:28.989 before you do your emissions testing but here I would con 01:53:28.989 --> 01:53:30.560 jecture that it would 01:53:30.560 --> 01:53:34.029 had not been done because run one was dirty runs two and 01:53:34.029 --> 01:53:35.199 three were were 01:53:35.199 --> 01:53:37.979 incredibly clean very clean I don't remember the exact 01:53:37.979 --> 01:53:39.560 numbers but they were 01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:43.960 below one pounds per hour where you average them yes 01:53:43.960 --> 01:53:44.960 average one burnt it 01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:48.800 all off the other two were clean yes yeah so that is the 01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:49.439 ultimate result 01:53:49.439 --> 01:53:52.859 engine one passed on p.m. but the value looks higher 01:53:52.859 --> 01:53:53.960 compared to the rest 01:53:53.960 --> 01:53:58.319 because of one one engine one seems like an outlier 01:53:58.319 --> 01:53:59.479 compared to all the other 01:53:59.479 --> 01:54:05.279 data sets we have just one engine there was another engine 01:54:05.279 --> 01:54:05.920 that was slightly 01:54:05.920 --> 01:54:10.189 higher yeah not above yeah yeah but probably the same 01:54:10.189 --> 01:54:13.000 explanation yeah yeah 01:54:13.000 --> 01:54:20.789 but still that's significantly below the permit levels yes 01:54:20.789 --> 01:54:22.520 throughout the testing 01:54:22.520 --> 01:54:25.880 it should also point out that we do continuous QA so all 01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:26.640 that those 01:54:26.640 --> 01:54:31.590 analyzers I was showing you earlier we would bring we had 01:54:31.590 --> 01:54:33.039 on site calibrated 01:54:33.039 --> 01:54:37.310 gas concentrations that were past EPA test protocols so you 01:54:37.310 --> 01:54:37.960 know I don't 01:54:37.960 --> 01:54:40.409 remember the exact concentrations but say we have a gas 01:54:40.409 --> 01:54:41.479 bottle of 10 ppm of 01:54:41.479 --> 01:54:45.050 knocks we have run into our analyzer that analyzer has to 01:54:45.050 --> 01:54:46.680 read very close to 10 01:54:46.680 --> 01:54:50.000 ppm of knocks otherwise that entire test fails we have to 01:54:50.000 --> 01:54:52.000 fix our analyzer and go 01:54:52.000 --> 01:54:54.630 through our test again we did not have that problem all 01:54:54.630 --> 01:54:55.640 those analyzers came to 01:54:55.640 --> 01:54:59.760 site prepared they were good all the QA checks passed the p 01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:01.159 .m. trains again the 01:55:01.159 --> 01:55:03.989 post and pre leak checks they passed so the integrity of 01:55:03.989 --> 01:55:05.159 that sample train was 01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:09.420 good so all the QA tests passed and they are in our test 01:55:09.420 --> 01:55:11.439 report here is a copy 01:55:11.439 --> 01:55:14.430 this is George Morrill's test report as you can see it's it 01:55:14.430 --> 01:55:16.239 's quite thick it's 01:55:16.239 --> 01:55:19.829 been submitted to TCEQ and it will be viewable by the 01:55:19.829 --> 01:55:22.079 public once TCEQ gets 01:55:22.079 --> 01:55:26.079 reviews it and incorporate it into the website if I had to 01:55:26.079 --> 01:55:27.680 say one statement a 01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:31.119 very blanket statement generally about the testing it's 01:55:31.119 --> 01:55:32.600 this all emissions test 01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:40.350 results passed thinking ahead if you're wondering about how 01:55:40.350 --> 01:55:41.199 these test results 01:55:41.199 --> 01:55:43.500 compared to other projects have been a part of they do 01:55:43.500 --> 01:55:45.399 compare very favorably 01:55:45.399 --> 01:55:48.630 compared to like coal fire power plants or even combustion 01:55:48.630 --> 01:55:50.720 turbines the results 01:55:50.720 --> 01:55:53.810 are low and that's to be expected because as you guys know 01:55:53.810 --> 01:55:54.800 you guys have a 01:55:54.800 --> 01:56:01.819 the South Coast special SCR so yeah these did test very 01:56:01.819 --> 01:56:04.560 well and gave a very 01:56:04.560 --> 01:56:10.479 comparably to other sources so that I'll hand back over to 01:56:10.479 --> 01:56:11.600 George what is he 01:56:11.600 --> 01:56:15.859 just one question for ego yeah of course what's okay this 01:56:15.859 --> 01:56:16.560 is the initial test 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:22.119 yes we send for the permit so what's the ongoing testing 01:56:22.119 --> 01:56:23.760 schedule or is that 01:56:23.760 --> 01:56:29.710 yeah is that part of your contract to do as part of your 01:56:29.710 --> 01:56:31.720 well to dance with that 01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:34.539 part of the question no that's not part of a contract we'd 01:56:34.539 --> 01:56:35.520 be more and help you 01:56:35.520 --> 01:56:40.640 to help out in the future that's the right now that it's 01:56:40.640 --> 01:56:42.159 not but then did 01:56:42.159 --> 01:56:45.329 your further question of what it is what is the testing 01:56:45.329 --> 01:56:46.880 requirements going right 01:56:46.880 --> 01:56:55.079 I don't have a clear answer to that for you right now other 01:56:55.079 --> 01:56:56.479 engine facilities 01:56:56.479 --> 01:56:59.199 that I've worked on they were major sources so they had 01:56:59.199 --> 01:56:59.960 more of an explicit 01:56:59.960 --> 01:57:05.500 and longer test or air permit and so other projects for 01:57:05.500 --> 01:57:07.760 example had to test 01:57:07.760 --> 01:57:15.539 every third engine every three years without without 01:57:15.539 --> 01:57:18.319 letting a period of five 01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:21.949 years I believe between one engine being tested so there's 01:57:21.949 --> 01:57:23.119 some nuances to it 01:57:23.119 --> 01:57:27.689 but basically that permit did not require annual testing on 01:57:27.689 --> 01:57:28.680 each engine 01:57:28.680 --> 01:57:34.100 and that's that facility and each facility is gonna be 01:57:34.100 --> 01:57:35.920 different so what 01:57:35.920 --> 01:57:41.720 it means for dent energy center with being a minor source 01:57:41.720 --> 01:57:43.680 and being the state 01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:49.000 of Texas as well as opposed to you know Oregon Ohio Florida 01:57:49.000 --> 01:57:50.079 I don't know that 01:57:50.079 --> 01:57:53.729 specific answer but um I do have my play to try to find 01:57:53.729 --> 01:57:57.319 exactly what that is yeah 01:57:57.319 --> 01:58:00.989 I didn't know if there was a constant monitoring air 01:58:00.989 --> 01:58:02.920 quality monitor part of 01:58:02.920 --> 01:58:07.189 our deal yeah for our permit for this being a minor source 01:58:07.189 --> 01:58:08.439 no that was not 01:58:08.439 --> 01:58:14.960 required okay any other questions 01:58:23.960 --> 01:58:31.739 you might have seen Jason Brown our plant manager he 01:58:31.739 --> 01:58:33.359 indicates that he 01:58:33.359 --> 01:58:37.270 recalls our testing requirements to be every three years or 01:58:37.270 --> 01:58:38.439 16,000 hours 01:58:38.439 --> 01:58:42.050 whichever is less but likely we're gonna do something 01:58:42.050 --> 01:58:44.399 sooner than that just to 01:58:44.399 --> 01:58:48.079 kind of validate everything but so we've got some time and 01:58:48.079 --> 01:58:49.840 I just wanted to say I 01:58:49.840 --> 01:58:53.819 was impressed with the results and the quality of the work 01:58:53.819 --> 01:58:55.079 that was done you 01:58:55.079 --> 01:58:57.680 were forecasting in the budget that we brought to you 01:58:57.680 --> 01:58:58.720 depending what year it 01:58:58.720 --> 01:59:04.140 was somewhere between 2,300 and 2,800 hours per year 2,800 01:59:04.140 --> 01:59:05.319 I think was the FY 01:59:05.319 --> 01:59:08.949 19 and that sort of went down after that as we believe the 01:59:08.949 --> 01:59:10.159 market prices would 01:59:10.159 --> 01:59:14.520 drop over time and that's going to be significantly less 01:59:14.520 --> 01:59:15.520 than the permit 01:59:15.520 --> 01:59:19.789 levels the 2,800 plant hours we have a hundred tons of 01:59:19.789 --> 01:59:21.880 either NOx VOC and 01:59:21.880 --> 01:59:24.770 carbon monoxide and we're gonna be down well under that 01:59:24.770 --> 01:59:26.199 with the 2,800 hours so 01:59:26.199 --> 01:59:29.630 looks like we're not going to be constrained by the permit 01:59:29.630 --> 01:59:30.359 emissions 01:59:30.359 --> 01:59:33.949 levels will be constrained by you know what does the market 01:59:33.949 --> 01:59:34.520 bear for for 01:59:34.520 --> 01:59:38.560 operation of the unit as was indicated by Paul you know 01:59:38.560 --> 01:59:39.520 there's this very 01:59:39.520 --> 01:59:44.470 enhanced emission control system that was optional South 01:59:44.470 --> 01:59:45.319 Coast air quality 01:59:45.319 --> 01:59:49.579 management district grade and and it did work and reduce 01:59:49.579 --> 01:59:52.760 emissions so it averaged 01:59:52.760 --> 01:59:55.970 the plant you know we look at NOx as one of the main 01:59:55.970 --> 01:59:58.439 precursors of ozone and it 01:59:58.439 --> 02:00:02.560 averaged 0.426 pounds per hour over all the units and that 02:00:02.560 --> 02:00:03.960 was well under 1.33 02:00:03.960 --> 02:00:08.260 pounds which is what our target was so so everything's 02:00:08.260 --> 02:00:10.479 looking good and you know 02:00:10.479 --> 02:00:13.710 this is part of our program to bring renewable energy up to 02:00:13.710 --> 02:00:14.479 the hundred 02:00:14.479 --> 02:00:17.930 percent level for Denton while we don't we're not required 02:00:17.930 --> 02:00:19.039 as we've talked about 02:00:19.039 --> 02:00:24.680 in the past having a fast start unit as part of our 02:00:24.680 --> 02:00:26.560 portfolio it is gonna 02:00:26.560 --> 02:00:34.300 provide some value to us as you know we go back just a bit 02:00:34.300 --> 02:00:36.279 here you know as our 02:00:36.279 --> 02:00:39.640 renewables don't operate we saw a day a couple of weeks ago 02:00:39.640 --> 02:00:40.520 that I I made a 02:00:40.520 --> 02:00:43.710 presentation before APPA and I made a picture of the of 02:00:43.710 --> 02:00:45.359 what happened that day 02:00:45.359 --> 02:00:48.310 prices went up as high as three thousand dollars of megaw 02:00:48.310 --> 02:00:49.439 att hour and typically 02:00:49.439 --> 02:00:53.159 we're looking at maybe thirty dollars or forty dollars and 02:00:53.159 --> 02:00:54.439 we looked at the 02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:57.260 output of our wind project out in West Texas during those 02:00:57.260 --> 02:00:58.239 same three or four 02:00:58.239 --> 02:01:02.149 hours it had gone from 150 megawatts which is our contract 02:01:02.149 --> 02:01:03.399 maximum down to 02:01:03.399 --> 02:01:06.760 basically zero for three or four hours and that caused the 02:01:06.760 --> 02:01:07.920 market prices to go 02:01:07.920 --> 02:01:11.899 crazy and we would we had to pay that price for our load 02:01:11.899 --> 02:01:13.079 because we buy all of 02:01:13.079 --> 02:01:15.229 our load from the market and if we didn't have something 02:01:15.229 --> 02:01:16.119 that we could kick 02:01:16.119 --> 02:01:21.250 on to help recover that three thousand dollars then you 02:01:21.250 --> 02:01:22.880 know we would you know 02:01:22.880 --> 02:01:25.850 we would be upside down in the market so the deck while it 02:01:25.850 --> 02:01:26.800 's not required for 02:01:26.800 --> 02:01:29.100 reliability because that's air cards job and there's other 02:01:29.100 --> 02:01:29.880 machines left out 02:01:29.880 --> 02:01:33.079 there that can do that most of the time it's really makes 02:01:33.079 --> 02:01:33.840 sense to us as a 02:01:33.840 --> 02:01:38.109 financial hedge and I think you've heard us say that in the 02:01:38.109 --> 02:01:39.880 past and we'll we'll 02:01:39.880 --> 02:01:44.920 we'll back up our renewables with that so all is good and 02:01:44.920 --> 02:01:46.600 happy we could bring 02:01:46.600 --> 02:01:52.720 you that information so there's get you back on schedule 02:01:52.720 --> 02:01:54.439 yeah you did good 02:01:54.439 --> 02:01:57.829 any any questions of George question to come I had the 02:01:57.829 --> 02:01:59.479 opportunity to go see the 02:01:59.479 --> 02:02:05.640 plant on June 16th and it's impressive it's yeah it took me 02:02:05.640 --> 02:02:06.319 through it yeah it 02:02:06.319 --> 02:02:10.300 was a great tour I really enjoyed it so good job you know 02:02:10.300 --> 02:02:10.680 we've got a great 02:02:10.680 --> 02:02:13.020 staff out there yeah I'm totally amazed and the 02:02:13.020 --> 02:02:15.000 construction went well Chris 02:02:15.000 --> 02:02:17.380 Lutrik couldn't be here tonight he's having a little health 02:02:17.380 --> 02:02:18.039 issue but you 02:02:18.039 --> 02:02:21.100 know Chris was on top of this thing you know working with 02:02:21.100 --> 02:02:22.079 our contractors so 02:02:22.079 --> 02:02:31.420 thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it okay thank you George 02:02:31.420 --> 02:02:34.000 okay the next item we 02:02:34.000 --> 02:02:37.909 have actually a little bit of agenda shuffle here we're 02:02:37.909 --> 02:02:38.800 gonna move the closed 02:02:38.800 --> 02:02:43.460 meeting to the end of the meeting that's okay there's no 02:02:43.460 --> 02:02:45.800 action item required on 02:02:45.800 --> 02:02:53.680 the closed meeting item so we can just go through the rest 02:02:53.680 --> 02:02:54.760 of the agenda and 02:02:54.760 --> 02:02:58.739 then we'll wrap up with that after we do that so that going 02:02:58.739 --> 02:03:00.119 into the regular 02:03:00.119 --> 02:03:05.250 meeting items for individual consideration we have the 02:03:05.250 --> 02:03:06.479 draft minutes 02:03:06.479 --> 02:03:15.970 of the June 18th 2018 public utility board published in 02:03:15.970 --> 02:03:18.079 advance are there any 02:03:18.079 --> 02:03:25.819 comments questions concerns on the minutes I had made the 02:03:25.819 --> 02:03:26.520 comment about the 02:03:26.520 --> 02:03:29.310 recycling materials and I just want to clarify that I it 02:03:29.310 --> 02:03:30.439 was a little bit about 02:03:30.439 --> 02:03:35.479 what Ron or whoever was saying that because China is not 02:03:35.479 --> 02:03:36.880 taking a lot of the 02:03:36.880 --> 02:03:41.920 recyclables they've gone from the 95% to 99% is that 02:03:41.920 --> 02:03:43.039 impacting us that's really 02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:46.100 my question is that going to impact us and our recycling 02:03:46.100 --> 02:03:48.079 plants so I don't want 02:03:48.079 --> 02:03:54.840 to stop recycling or anything like that sure okay 02:03:55.399 --> 02:04:00.199 is there a motion then to accept the minutes or approve the 02:04:00.199 --> 02:04:01.159 minutes as 02:04:01.159 --> 02:04:08.260 submitted in a second any discussion all in favor say aye 02:04:08.260 --> 02:04:10.920 aye any opposed thank 02:04:10.920 --> 02:04:14.710 you item B is to consider recommending adoption of an 02:04:14.710 --> 02:04:15.880 ordinance of the city of 02:04:15.880 --> 02:04:18.880 Denton Texas authorizing the city manager or 02:04:18.880 --> 02:04:22.750 designee to execute a transmission line relocation 02:04:22.750 --> 02:04:24.640 agreement with Toronto Real 02:04:24.640 --> 02:04:31.590 to Inc a Texas corporation the John Oh partners Ltd a Texas 02:04:31.590 --> 02:04:32.520 limited partnership 02:04:32.520 --> 02:04:39.619 and NW realty a Texas corporation for the relocation of 138 02:04:39.619 --> 02:04:41.159 KV transmission 02:04:41.159 --> 02:04:44.579 line owned by the Texas Municipal Power Agency and 02:04:44.579 --> 02:04:46.199 maintained by the city 02:04:46.199 --> 02:04:51.779 located on the near west side of East loop 288 south of Sh 02:04:51.779 --> 02:04:54.000 ady Oaks Drive and 02:04:54.000 --> 02:04:59.130 Brent Heath is here to talk about this relocation project 02:04:59.130 --> 02:05:00.319 one of the owners in 02:05:00.319 --> 02:05:04.649 town asked us to relocate this project TMPA the owner of 02:05:04.649 --> 02:05:05.239 the line as you 02:05:05.239 --> 02:05:08.489 indicated was found that to be acceptable particularly 02:05:08.489 --> 02:05:09.159 since the owner 02:05:09.159 --> 02:05:11.720 of the property was going to pay the price for that so we 02:05:11.720 --> 02:05:12.640 've got two items 02:05:12.640 --> 02:05:15.760 here we just wanted to brief you on the relocation itself 02:05:15.760 --> 02:05:16.720 and then the next 02:05:16.720 --> 02:05:19.829 item under your agenda we'll ask you to approve the 02:05:19.829 --> 02:05:21.399 purchase of the polls so 02:05:21.399 --> 02:05:24.600 that we can meet a timeline that the developers asked us to 02:05:24.600 --> 02:05:25.479 meet so Brent do 02:05:25.479 --> 02:05:32.270 you want to do a overview of this for thank you George good 02:05:32.270 --> 02:05:34.119 evening George 02:05:34.119 --> 02:05:36.590 kind of keep the teed all this up so I'll go quickly 02:05:36.590 --> 02:05:37.760 through here this is a 02:05:37.760 --> 02:05:41.010 transmission line relocation it is a 138 KV line that's 02:05:41.010 --> 02:05:42.439 owned by TMPA that's 02:05:42.439 --> 02:05:46.109 Texas Municipal Power Agency the property owner that this 02:05:46.109 --> 02:05:46.720 transmission 02:05:46.720 --> 02:05:50.319 line resides on and exist on he's asked us to relocate a 02:05:50.319 --> 02:05:51.680 portion of that to a 02:05:51.680 --> 02:05:54.979 different location that's on the exact same property he has 02:05:54.979 --> 02:05:56.039 he does have quite 02:05:56.039 --> 02:05:59.420 a bit of land in this area so we were able to work with him 02:05:59.420 --> 02:06:01.079 on that he we had 02:06:01.079 --> 02:06:04.090 purchased a piece of property from the same landowner in 02:06:04.090 --> 02:06:05.819 the past and at that 02:06:05.819 --> 02:06:09.109 time he put a portion of those proceeds that we purchased 02:06:09.109 --> 02:06:10.239 the land with which 02:06:10.239 --> 02:06:13.829 accounted to 2.2 million dollars into escrow and that is 02:06:13.829 --> 02:06:14.640 being held here in 02:06:14.640 --> 02:06:18.189 Denton at reunion title and it was intended to pay for this 02:06:18.189 --> 02:06:18.960 relocation of 02:06:18.960 --> 02:06:21.779 the transmission line to give you a map of where we're 02:06:21.779 --> 02:06:24.000 talking about this is the 02:06:24.000 --> 02:06:30.359 East Loop 288 this right here is tractor supply you can see 02:06:30.359 --> 02:06:31.239 the water treatment 02:06:31.239 --> 02:06:34.039 plan over here in the bottom left hand corner the black 02:06:34.039 --> 02:06:35.680 portion of the line 02:06:35.680 --> 02:06:39.949 that's parallel to East Loop 288 is the portion that he is 02:06:39.949 --> 02:06:41.119 asked to be relocated 02:06:41.119 --> 02:06:44.710 and he wishes to have that relocated to of course it has to 02:06:44.710 --> 02:06:45.720 tie at the same 02:06:45.720 --> 02:06:50.050 points so he wishes basically for this black line to swing 02:06:50.050 --> 02:06:51.140 over to this red 02:06:51.140 --> 02:06:56.680 line location it's essentially the same distance it's it's 02:06:56.680 --> 02:06:58.199 slightly a little bit 02:06:58.199 --> 02:07:04.199 longer will require 13 poles 0.6 miles. 02:07:05.880 --> 02:07:10.829 Being a Texas Municipal Power Agency line City of Denton is 02:07:10.829 --> 02:07:11.439 the TOP 02:07:11.439 --> 02:07:14.880 transmission operator for the TMPA assets here in Denton 02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:16.279 County so we went 02:07:16.279 --> 02:07:20.159 to the TMPA board of directors in March of 2017 they gave 02:07:20.159 --> 02:07:21.000 the City of Denton 02:07:21.000 --> 02:07:24.479 authorization to relocate that at the expense of the 02:07:24.479 --> 02:07:26.560 property owner the 02:07:26.560 --> 02:07:30.039 transmission line agreement that is in front of you tonight 02:07:30.039 --> 02:07:30.720 will fund the 02:07:30.720 --> 02:07:34.720 relocation at the actual cost of the construction not to 02:07:34.720 --> 02:07:36.119 exceed the escrowed 02:07:36.119 --> 02:07:40.810 amount. For that after the lines relocated there will be a 02:07:40.810 --> 02:07:41.680 portion of the 02:07:41.680 --> 02:07:44.609 overhead rights that are no longer needed where the old 02:07:44.609 --> 02:07:45.520 line was at the 02:07:45.520 --> 02:07:47.609 city will retain the public utility easement for 02:07:47.609 --> 02:07:48.680 underground rights for an 02:07:48.680 --> 02:07:53.810 existing water and sanitary sewer line. We wanted to 02:07:53.810 --> 02:07:55.720 confirm that the 2.2 02:07:55.720 --> 02:07:58.619 million dollars how does that sit today is compared to 02:07:58.619 --> 02:07:59.880 years ago when we started 02:07:59.880 --> 02:08:03.199 talking about this we were kind of concerned about the 02:08:03.199 --> 02:08:04.439 polls being still 02:08:04.439 --> 02:08:08.350 with the metals prices changing rapidly here in the United 02:08:08.350 --> 02:08:09.840 States and so we went 02:08:09.840 --> 02:08:14.109 out for a bid in May and RFP that we'll talk about next 02:08:14.109 --> 02:08:15.279 down here this agenda 02:08:15.279 --> 02:08:17.840 item that will be the next item it came back in a little 02:08:17.840 --> 02:08:18.680 higher than we 02:08:18.680 --> 02:08:22.020 originally anticipated but the bottom line is we still feel 02:08:22.020 --> 02:08:23.319 very confident we 02:08:23.319 --> 02:08:27.079 can relocate this line under the 2.2 million dollars that's 02:08:27.079 --> 02:08:28.720 escrowed. 02:08:28.720 --> 02:08:32.630 The benefits to the line relocation besides meeting the 02:08:32.630 --> 02:08:33.279 desire from the 02:08:33.279 --> 02:08:36.000 property owner is for the city of Denton it does provide 02:08:36.000 --> 02:08:37.359 easier physical access 02:08:37.359 --> 02:08:40.789 for our crews to operate and maintain the line along a city 02:08:40.789 --> 02:08:41.880 street it does give 02:08:41.880 --> 02:08:44.930 new poles gives new conductors it improves the system 02:08:44.930 --> 02:08:46.159 capacity performance 02:08:46.159 --> 02:08:51.720 and reliability. So the city of Denton after we've reviewed 02:08:51.720 --> 02:08:52.760 the agreement work 02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:55.149 through legal with it work with the property owner we 02:08:55.149 --> 02:08:56.920 recommend accepting 02:08:56.920 --> 02:08:59.489 the property owners 2.2 million dollars that he's holding 02:08:59.489 --> 02:09:00.359 an escrow for us to 02:09:00.359 --> 02:09:05.020 take. So with that I'd be happy to answer any questions 02:09:05.020 --> 02:09:06.640 that you have. 02:09:07.079 --> 02:09:11.680 Questions? Do you mind putting the map back up please? 02:09:11.680 --> 02:09:17.560 Certainly. So everything in 02:09:17.560 --> 02:09:24.189 the red line when if I recall when the property acquisition 02:09:24.189 --> 02:09:25.140 for the substation 02:09:25.140 --> 02:09:28.739 was made did that include the easement cost? Yes sir it did 02:09:28.739 --> 02:09:30.000 . That's already acquired. So that's 02:09:30.000 --> 02:09:37.319 already done. That is correct. Just swing it up. Perfect. 02:09:40.640 --> 02:09:45.909 Okay. Plus it opens up a hopefully it's gonna open up a 02:09:45.909 --> 02:09:47.760 great commercially 02:09:47.760 --> 02:09:53.260 developable portion of loop 88 which is you know by moving 02:09:53.260 --> 02:09:54.239 that line back off 02:09:54.239 --> 02:09:58.510 the loop that's good. That is the desire of the property 02:09:58.510 --> 02:10:01.840 owner. Yes. Good. Any other 02:10:01.840 --> 02:10:09.619 questions? No. Is there a motion then on item B? Move 02:10:09.619 --> 02:10:13.399 approval. Is there a second? 02:10:13.399 --> 02:10:18.189 I have a motion a second. Any discussion? All in favor say 02:10:18.189 --> 02:10:20.680 aye. Any opposed? Same 02:10:20.680 --> 02:10:28.000 sign. Okay. Item C. I'm assuming Branch are gonna do that 02:10:28.000 --> 02:10:29.319 one also. Yes sir that is 02:10:29.319 --> 02:10:33.199 correct. This would be the Galvanized steel 02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:36.180 poles that we went out for an RFP in May to confirm what is 02:10:36.180 --> 02:10:37.439 the current price and 02:10:37.439 --> 02:10:41.140 we did have the previous multi-year steel pole contract 02:10:41.140 --> 02:10:42.319 expired a few months 02:10:42.319 --> 02:10:45.060 before this and so we felt like we needed to get a new 02:10:45.060 --> 02:10:46.119 price to see where 02:10:46.119 --> 02:10:49.439 at. This is the same map I just showed you of where these 02:10:49.439 --> 02:10:50.560 poles will be used at. 02:10:50.560 --> 02:10:54.829 It's only the 16 poles required for this whole project. 13 02:10:54.829 --> 02:10:55.920 of them will be funded 02:10:55.920 --> 02:10:59.689 by the property owner for the portion that he's requesting 02:10:59.689 --> 02:11:02.039 to be relocated. RFP 02:11:02.039 --> 02:11:07.180 request for proposal 6744 is only to relocate the section 02:11:07.180 --> 02:11:08.960 shown in red. This 02:11:08.960 --> 02:11:12.590 was a relocation that the property owner asked us to move. 02:11:12.590 --> 02:11:14.159 As I mentioned 16 poles 02:11:14.159 --> 02:11:17.510 are required for the whole project and 13 of them will be 02:11:17.510 --> 02:11:19.000 directly related to 02:11:19.000 --> 02:11:22.920 the project that he's requested us to move. This is the way 02:11:22.920 --> 02:11:24.319 that the pricing 02:11:24.319 --> 02:11:28.680 broke down on the specific poles. The top portion is the 13 02:11:28.680 --> 02:11:29.479 poles that will be 02:11:29.479 --> 02:11:34.000 used in the red line that you saw. It totals 845,000 which 02:11:34.000 --> 02:11:34.479 was the eight 02:11:34.479 --> 02:11:37.699 exact same number we used in the table I showed you on the 02:11:37.699 --> 02:11:39.000 previous agenda item 02:11:39.000 --> 02:11:41.539 and these would be the other three poles that gets us from 02:11:41.539 --> 02:11:42.760 industrial sub up to 02:11:42.760 --> 02:11:47.880 the brinker site so we can physically tie that together. To 02:11:47.880 --> 02:11:49.479 give you a picture of 02:11:49.479 --> 02:11:52.689 what the transmission poles look like because it is around 02:11:52.689 --> 02:11:53.520 a curve on shady 02:11:53.520 --> 02:11:57.109 oaks there will have to be some angled structures that will 02:11:57.109 --> 02:11:58.199 have to come with 02:11:58.199 --> 02:12:01.180 some double dead-end poles and then there also are some 02:12:01.180 --> 02:12:02.920 tangent poles. Both 02:12:02.920 --> 02:12:06.859 of these designs are able to have alternate circuits in the 02:12:06.859 --> 02:12:07.720 future come 02:12:07.720 --> 02:12:12.130 off the backside whenever that need is determined and that 02:12:12.130 --> 02:12:13.439 is what exists right 02:12:13.439 --> 02:12:18.569 now with the existing TNPA line so we preserve that right. 02:12:18.569 --> 02:12:21.439 So based on the 02:12:21.439 --> 02:12:25.760 evaluation from the evaluation team the Texas Electric 02:12:25.760 --> 02:12:27.199 Cooperative TEC a 02:12:27.199 --> 02:12:31.949 proposal it was the highest evaluated score it was the 02:12:31.949 --> 02:12:33.159 quickest delivery and 02:12:33.159 --> 02:12:37.020 it also was the lowest price and so staff recommends 02:12:37.020 --> 02:12:38.560 approval of the Texas 02:12:38.560 --> 02:12:41.489 Electric Cooperative purchase for the steel Gavin I suppose 02:12:41.489 --> 02:12:42.359 not to exceed the 02:12:42.359 --> 02:12:47.399 full amount of 1.1 million. Be happy to answer any 02:12:47.399 --> 02:12:48.359 questions. 02:12:50.359 --> 02:12:53.020 Can't beat it when it's the best score the lowest price and 02:12:53.020 --> 02:12:54.640 quickest delivery. 02:12:54.640 --> 02:13:06.399 It's hard to believe. I know the overall score came out 02:13:06.399 --> 02:13:08.560 higher but the one that 02:13:08.560 --> 02:13:11.590 kind of stands out I mean is probable performance and it 02:13:11.590 --> 02:13:13.399 got 12 out of 15 02:13:13.399 --> 02:13:17.670 instead of 15 out of 15 so I guess what's we haven't 02:13:17.670 --> 02:13:19.079 actually used some 02:13:19.079 --> 02:13:21.750 still poles from Texas Electric Cooperative the previous 02:13:21.750 --> 02:13:22.000 pole 02:13:22.000 --> 02:13:25.479 manufacturer we had used them before so that's how some of 02:13:25.479 --> 02:13:26.399 those scores 02:13:26.399 --> 02:13:29.579 differentiated but they did get a total 96 out of 100 02:13:29.579 --> 02:13:32.720 points to ECW. Right. 02:13:32.720 --> 02:13:35.720 Okay. 02:13:38.880 --> 02:13:50.920 All right any other questions? Is there a motion on item C? 02:13:50.920 --> 02:13:54.000 Second? Second. Any 02:13:54.000 --> 02:14:00.399 discussion? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Same sign. 02:14:00.399 --> 02:14:04.720 Thank you. Thank you. 02:14:05.600 --> 02:14:15.199 Yes. Okay item D is to consider recommending adoption of an 02:14:15.199 --> 02:14:15.880 ordinance of 02:14:15.880 --> 02:14:20.149 the City of Denton Texas Texas Home Rule Municipal 02:14:20.149 --> 02:14:21.680 Corporation providing for 02:14:21.680 --> 02:14:25.460 authorizing and approving the purchase of property, boiler, 02:14:25.460 --> 02:14:26.600 and machinery in 02:14:26.600 --> 02:14:30.369 business interruption insurance coverage for the City of 02:14:30.369 --> 02:14:32.039 Denton through the city 02:14:32.039 --> 02:14:36.310 sole broker of record McGriff, Siebels, and Williams of 02:14:36.310 --> 02:14:38.920 Texas Incorporated with 02:14:38.920 --> 02:14:44.439 a three-year not to exceed amount of 1 million 399 thousand 02:14:44.439 --> 02:14:46.680 dollars. Good evening 02:14:46.680 --> 02:14:49.039 Chairman, members of the PUV. My name is Scott Payne, I'm 02:14:49.039 --> 02:14:50.159 the risk manager of the City of 02:14:50.159 --> 02:14:52.859 Denton and the item before you is what you just said the 02:14:52.859 --> 02:14:53.920 approval of property 02:14:53.920 --> 02:14:57.319 insurance, boiler machinery, or equipment breakdown 02:14:57.319 --> 02:14:58.880 coverage, and business 02:14:58.880 --> 02:15:02.430 interruption for the Denton Energy Center of the DEC. So 02:15:02.430 --> 02:15:03.479 obviously with 02:15:03.479 --> 02:15:06.199 construction nearly completed it was important for us to 02:15:06.199 --> 02:15:06.880 get property 02:15:06.880 --> 02:15:09.600 insurance to protect this asset once it was online. 02:15:09.600 --> 02:15:10.960 Unfortunately our current 02:15:10.960 --> 02:15:13.529 property carrier that we have for all the other city 02:15:13.529 --> 02:15:14.880 facilities affiliated FM 02:15:14.880 --> 02:15:19.479 doesn't write coverage for power generation facilities so 02:15:19.479 --> 02:15:20.640 it necessitated 02:15:20.640 --> 02:15:22.579 us going out to the market to do this on a kind of 02:15:22.579 --> 02:15:24.920 standalone basis. So we banded 02:15:24.920 --> 02:15:28.369 February with McGriff who's our sole broker gathering the 02:15:28.369 --> 02:15:29.439 information for the 02:15:29.439 --> 02:15:31.979 underwriters on the DEC. A lot of information exchanging 02:15:31.979 --> 02:15:32.640 hands back and 02:15:32.640 --> 02:15:36.659 forth. Those of you guys who don't know much about the 02:15:36.659 --> 02:15:37.640 property market in Texas 02:15:37.640 --> 02:15:40.039 it's starting to shrink quite a bit from a commercial 02:15:40.039 --> 02:15:41.720 standpoint mostly due to 02:15:41.720 --> 02:15:45.310 all the wind and hail losses that Texas has had so that 02:15:45.310 --> 02:15:46.640 makes the market a little 02:15:46.640 --> 02:15:50.550 bit smaller. When you add in those who write public sector 02:15:50.550 --> 02:15:51.359 because typically a 02:15:51.359 --> 02:15:53.569 lot of our values are in one geographical location we don't 02:15:53.569 --> 02:15:53.920 have it 02:15:53.920 --> 02:15:56.649 spread all over the country that makes it even smaller and 02:15:56.649 --> 02:15:57.359 then when you get to a 02:15:57.359 --> 02:16:00.000 power generation facility it gets even smaller than that. 02:16:00.000 --> 02:16:02.920 So we did find six 02:16:02.920 --> 02:16:05.220 companies that were interested we conducted a tour and an 02:16:05.220 --> 02:16:05.840 information 02:16:05.840 --> 02:16:08.789 gathering session back on May the 10th. We had a lot of 02:16:08.789 --> 02:16:09.920 good interest a lot of 02:16:09.920 --> 02:16:11.789 things I didn't understand that was being talked out 02:16:11.789 --> 02:16:12.520 between Jason and the 02:16:12.520 --> 02:16:14.369 engineers out there but they all seemed to understand it 02:16:14.369 --> 02:16:15.699 and that was good. Our 02:16:15.699 --> 02:16:18.579 goal was to have the coverage in place by July 1st when we 02:16:18.579 --> 02:16:19.199 would have reached 02:16:19.199 --> 02:16:23.060 substantial completion and take it on from an operational 02:16:23.060 --> 02:16:24.319 standpoint. Unfortunately 02:16:24.319 --> 02:16:27.569 on May the 24th we were advised from the Dex Journal 02:16:27.569 --> 02:16:29.520 contractor that what we 02:16:29.520 --> 02:16:31.729 thought was still being covered was no longer being covered 02:16:31.729 --> 02:16:32.360 and that was the 02:16:32.360 --> 02:16:35.319 property component of the builders risk. Once it moved into 02:16:35.319 --> 02:16:36.159 the operational 02:16:36.159 --> 02:16:38.780 testing phase although they had told us it was still going 02:16:38.780 --> 02:16:39.520 to be covered it was 02:16:39.520 --> 02:16:42.129 no longer covered and so we had to scramble to put some 02:16:42.129 --> 02:16:43.239 property coverage in 02:16:43.239 --> 02:16:46.120 place at that point in time. So fortunately McGriff was 02:16:46.120 --> 02:16:47.440 already working 02:16:47.440 --> 02:16:50.799 quite diligently on placing the coverage and so a lot of 02:16:50.799 --> 02:16:51.639 conversations already 02:16:51.639 --> 02:16:54.110 been taking place. Most of the information was already in 02:16:54.110 --> 02:16:54.479 the hands of 02:16:54.479 --> 02:16:56.889 the underwriter and so they basically just expedited the 02:16:56.889 --> 02:16:57.760 process by a couple 02:16:57.760 --> 02:17:00.530 of weeks to get the coverage in place by the 25th. So there 02:17:00.530 --> 02:17:01.799 was one rather 02:17:01.799 --> 02:17:04.790 sleepless night on the 24th hoping that no storms blew 02:17:04.790 --> 02:17:07.280 through the area but again 02:17:07.280 --> 02:17:09.760 we managed to get the coverage in place without any issue 02:17:09.760 --> 02:17:11.479 at the deck. The three 02:17:11.479 --> 02:17:13.569 main components that are covered in this property this 02:17:13.569 --> 02:17:14.840 insurance procurement is 02:17:14.840 --> 02:17:17.889 the property which is your traditional hail, windstorm, 02:17:17.889 --> 02:17:19.559 tornado, fire, vandalism 02:17:19.559 --> 02:17:23.399 type coverage. There's also which in this situation a big 02:17:23.399 --> 02:17:24.239 piece of is the 02:17:24.239 --> 02:17:26.629 boiler machinery or the equipment breakdown because 02:17:26.629 --> 02:17:27.600 obviously the biggest 02:17:27.600 --> 02:17:29.950 piece of the value is those engines that are on site and so 02:17:29.950 --> 02:17:30.600 we want to make sure we 02:17:30.600 --> 02:17:32.750 have coverage for that and the last piece is a business 02:17:32.750 --> 02:17:34.000 interruption coverage so 02:17:34.000 --> 02:17:37.180 that if the facility is damaged and unoperable because of a 02:17:37.180 --> 02:17:37.959 covered loss 02:17:37.959 --> 02:17:40.489 there is some replacement for the revenue that we'd be 02:17:40.489 --> 02:17:41.360 losing because of 02:17:41.360 --> 02:17:45.049 that piece of it. So we were able to get four proposals for 02:17:45.049 --> 02:17:46.200 this the one that we 02:17:46.200 --> 02:17:49.000 recommended tonight is the one from Lexington and Swiss Re 02:17:49.000 --> 02:17:49.639 it's a combo 02:17:49.639 --> 02:17:53.909 proposal where each company shares 50% of the premium and 02:17:53.909 --> 02:17:55.079 also 50% of any loss 02:17:55.079 --> 02:17:58.129 that happens and it does include all three of the coverage 02:17:58.129 --> 02:17:58.760 that we identified 02:17:58.760 --> 02:18:01.840 before. Lloyds of London presented a quote that did not 02:18:01.840 --> 02:18:02.520 include the boiler 02:18:02.520 --> 02:18:06.149 machinery and then Travelers and HSB gave us boiler 02:18:06.149 --> 02:18:07.360 machinery quotes only so 02:18:07.360 --> 02:18:09.709 really the only one that met all of our needs was with Lex 02:18:09.709 --> 02:18:10.680 ington Swiss Re 02:18:10.680 --> 02:18:14.020 proposal. Again like I mentioned before it's a split 02:18:14.020 --> 02:18:15.040 proposal between the two 02:18:15.040 --> 02:18:18.829 companies only one that concluded all the elements and the 02:18:18.829 --> 02:18:19.879 premium as you saw 02:18:19.879 --> 02:18:24.149 is about $444,000 per year and it covers about 170 million 02:18:24.149 --> 02:18:24.440 dollars in 02:18:24.440 --> 02:18:26.659 total insured valuable on the project including the new 02:18:26.659 --> 02:18:27.479 substation that's 02:18:27.479 --> 02:18:31.750 there on site as well. So we're seeking approval from the P 02:18:31.750 --> 02:18:32.440 UB and from the 02:18:32.440 --> 02:18:35.469 council tomorrow to procure that insurance retroactively 02:18:35.469 --> 02:18:36.420 back to May the 02:18:36.420 --> 02:18:41.239 25th and I'll be glad to answer any questions. Questions? 02:18:41.239 --> 02:18:42.440 So we had a 02:18:42.440 --> 02:18:47.000 gentleman's agreement on the insurance from construction to 02:18:47.000 --> 02:18:49.120 testing? No it was 02:18:49.120 --> 02:18:51.590 part of the construction documents that the builders risk 02:18:51.590 --> 02:18:52.319 would cover the 02:18:52.319 --> 02:18:57.360 actual property itself during the construction and they had 02:18:57.360 --> 02:18:58.159 given us 02:18:58.159 --> 02:19:00.450 assurances that it would be covered under their builders 02:19:00.450 --> 02:19:01.120 risk policy up 02:19:01.120 --> 02:19:03.790 until July the 1st and then I guess they went back and had 02:19:03.790 --> 02:19:04.639 their insurance 02:19:04.639 --> 02:19:06.760 experts really look at what the document said and then we 02:19:06.760 --> 02:19:07.639 were biased and no that 02:19:07.639 --> 02:19:10.280 was not the case. Well all the liability coverages the 02:19:10.280 --> 02:19:11.159 workers comp and everything 02:19:11.159 --> 02:19:13.920 was certainly in place the actual coverage on the facility 02:19:13.920 --> 02:19:14.600 itself was no 02:19:14.600 --> 02:19:18.079 longer in existence. So their their definition of 02:19:18.079 --> 02:19:20.479 operational became once 02:19:20.479 --> 02:19:23.530 you could test it? Right. It was the only thing that was 02:19:23.530 --> 02:19:24.680 under construction at that point. 02:19:24.680 --> 02:19:29.379 Yeah. Which was not what we initially had understood. Well 02:19:29.379 --> 02:19:30.680 I'm glad you're able to 02:19:30.680 --> 02:19:33.620 scramble and get coverage and glad nothing happened on the 02:19:33.620 --> 02:19:35.200 24th. Me too. Me too. 02:19:35.200 --> 02:19:39.620 And it is very difficult like you say in this market at my 02:19:39.620 --> 02:19:41.200 last employer we 02:19:41.200 --> 02:19:44.620 sometimes had to get two different insurance so we could 02:19:44.620 --> 02:19:45.440 get boiler and 02:19:45.440 --> 02:19:48.649 machinery and they wouldn't cover it all and Lloyd's of 02:19:48.649 --> 02:19:49.879 London was the one that 02:19:49.879 --> 02:19:53.129 covered actually I believe the boiler machinery so why they 02:19:53.129 --> 02:19:54.559 said not here. We 02:19:54.559 --> 02:19:59.000 must have some claims I guess. Well that was a good thing 02:19:59.000 --> 02:19:59.799 about this being a brand new 02:19:59.799 --> 02:20:02.040 facility is that there was more interest in it because it 02:20:02.040 --> 02:20:02.879 wasn't a 30 year old 02:20:02.879 --> 02:20:05.319 platter. I think it was nice and pretty and shiny and had 02:20:05.319 --> 02:20:06.040 warranties on some 02:20:06.040 --> 02:20:08.299 things and so that did elicit some more interest from some 02:20:08.299 --> 02:20:09.000 companies that may 02:20:09.000 --> 02:20:11.299 not have been and you know we think maybe going into next 02:20:11.299 --> 02:20:11.979 year as we have 02:20:11.979 --> 02:20:13.829 better data on the business interruption because we've 02:20:13.829 --> 02:20:14.799 actually been in operation 02:20:14.799 --> 02:20:16.930 for a year we may be able to get those rates massage a 02:20:16.930 --> 02:20:17.879 little bit and maybe 02:20:17.879 --> 02:20:21.079 come down who knows it's the insurance market in Texas no 02:20:21.079 --> 02:20:23.280 one knows for sure. 02:20:23.280 --> 02:20:28.280 Was that a good rate? It was really our only rate. Right I 02:20:28.280 --> 02:20:29.120 mean it was still a 02:20:29.120 --> 02:20:32.729 good rate you know had we done a layer program with its 02:20:32.729 --> 02:20:33.559 quotes that were out there 02:20:33.559 --> 02:20:36.690 it would have been taking the Lloyd's of London property 02:20:36.690 --> 02:20:37.920 coverage and then all the 02:20:37.920 --> 02:20:39.770 one of the others for the boiler machinery which have been 02:20:39.770 --> 02:20:40.319 more expensive 02:20:40.319 --> 02:20:44.579 than the than the Swiss re Lexington proposal so you know 02:20:44.579 --> 02:20:45.360 it's it's more 02:20:45.360 --> 02:20:47.450 expensive than what we're paying for the other property 02:20:47.450 --> 02:20:48.280 exposures the city has 02:20:48.280 --> 02:20:51.680 was also a very specialized risk and a lot of value sitting 02:20:51.680 --> 02:20:52.840 in one location so 02:20:52.840 --> 02:20:56.750 that makes the underwriters quite nervous. But I remember 02:20:56.750 --> 02:20:57.600 Jason you said 02:20:57.600 --> 02:21:01.389 sorry can you still the lights not going you said that the 02:21:01.389 --> 02:21:02.920 building will sustain 02:21:02.920 --> 02:21:10.020 what level of wind? 125. I think all those things helped 02:21:10.020 --> 02:21:11.000 become a more 02:21:11.000 --> 02:21:13.299 attractive risk for the end of riders because again new 02:21:13.299 --> 02:21:14.799 construction top of 02:21:14.799 --> 02:21:18.520 line construction on and on. 02:21:19.000 --> 02:21:25.120 All right questions Scott is there a motion? I'll move 02:21:25.120 --> 02:21:27.719 approval. Second. You have a 02:21:27.719 --> 02:21:34.079 motion and a second discussion all in favor say aye. Aye. 02:21:34.079 --> 02:21:35.680 Any opposed same sign. 02:21:35.680 --> 02:21:47.030 Okay motion passes. Okay thank you Scott. Item E is ACM 02:21:47.030 --> 02:21:49.840 update. Mr. Chairman 02:21:49.840 --> 02:21:52.500 members of the board for the benefit of you and everybody 02:21:52.500 --> 02:21:53.600 in the audience I have 02:21:53.600 --> 02:22:03.590 nothing to report. Thank you. That is a great benefit. Okay 02:22:03.590 --> 02:22:05.000 concluding items under 02:22:05.000 --> 02:22:10.420 section 551.042 of the Texas Open Meetings Act is to 02:22:10.420 --> 02:22:11.399 respond to inquiries 02:22:11.399 --> 02:22:14.719 from the public utilities board or the public with specific 02:22:14.719 --> 02:22:15.440 factual information 02:22:15.440 --> 02:22:20.200 or rest station policy or accept a proposal to place the 02:22:20.200 --> 02:22:20.840 matter on the 02:22:20.840 --> 02:22:24.120 agenda for an upcoming meeting. 02:22:24.600 --> 02:22:35.459 Nothing to propose. Okay then the only thing we have left 02:22:35.459 --> 02:22:38.159 is the closed meeting 02:22:38.159 --> 02:22:42.670 which we will actually will there's no action item 02:22:42.670 --> 02:22:45.719 associated with that so I 02:22:45.719 --> 02:22:50.879 guess we take a motion to adjourn this meeting and go into 02:22:50.879 --> 02:22:51.840 closed meeting and 02:22:51.840 --> 02:22:55.090 that'll be the final adjournment once we finish that closed 02:22:55.090 --> 02:22:56.120 meeting. That's always 02:22:56.120 --> 02:23:01.879 your job Brandon. I move we adjourn the open meeting. Okay 02:23:01.879 --> 02:23:03.680 we have a motion and 02:23:03.680 --> 02:23:09.899 second to do so all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed same 02:23:09.899 --> 02:23:10.639 sign.