WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.839 public utility board meeting to order. We have a work 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:06.519 session to begin this 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:11.509 morning, a few items, so we'll dive right into that. First 00:00:11.509 --> 00:00:13.679 item in work session is 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:16.629 to receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff 00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:17.960 direction regarding the 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:21.469 Denton Energy Center air permit review, which is being 00:00:21.469 --> 00:00:22.739 conducted by Black and 00:00:22.739 --> 00:00:24.719 Veatch Corporation. Brian, you want to make the 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:26.960 introductions? Good morning. Brian Langley, 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.410 Deputy City Manager. We had several questions about the air 00:00:30.410 --> 00:00:31.120 permit that was 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:33.630 filed for the Denton Energy Center and through the City 00:00:33.630 --> 00:00:34.759 Council and also through 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.229 the community, and so we hired Black and Veatch to conduct 00:00:37.229 --> 00:00:38.039 a study to look at 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:41.119 that and to bring back their findings back to both the PUB 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:41.840 and the City 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.429 Council. So today they'll make that presentation to you, 00:00:44.429 --> 00:00:45.200 and tomorrow the 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.939 same presentation to the City Council. We have Diane Fisher 00:00:47.939 --> 00:00:48.920 that's here with 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:50.679 Black and Veatch, and so I'm going to ask her to go through 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:51.560 the presentation and 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:55.320 answer any questions that you may have. Diane. 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:07.109 Good morning. It's great to be here in front of the PUB 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:09.840 today. Again, my name is 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.469 Diane Fisher. I'm Associate Vice President with Black and 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:13.560 Veatch and the 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:18.269 Project Director for this project. I have with me Michael 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:22.280 Fisher, no relation, also 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:27.219 Mike Rinkle. Michael Fisher is our Project Manager. Mike R 00:01:27.219 --> 00:01:27.879 inkle is our 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.680 Environmental Engineer, and then Paul Lee is our Air 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.680 Quality Control Engineer. So I 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:39.170 want to tell you a little bit first about Black and Veatch 00:01:39.170 --> 00:01:40.120 so that you have a 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:44.170 sense of who we are and why we're doing this work. Black 00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:46.120 and Veatch is a 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:48.920 engineering consulting firm. We've been in business for 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:50.239 about a hundred years. We 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:56.040 celebrate our 100th anniversary in 2015, and we do mostly 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:57.519 infrastructure projects. 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.159 We do work in the power industry similar to the Denton 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.640 Energy Project. We also 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:09.419 work in the water and wastewater industry. We do oil and 00:02:09.419 --> 00:02:11.199 gas projects and 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.650 telecommunications projects. We also do those type of 00:02:14.650 --> 00:02:15.879 projects both for the 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.360 private industry and then also for the United States 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.120 government. And 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.449 we serve in a variety of roles. Sometimes we build projects 00:02:25.449 --> 00:02:26.560 like Denton Energy 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.110 Center ourselves, and then other times like this we serve 00:02:30.110 --> 00:02:31.280 as owner's engineer 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:36.800 where we're looking out for the interests of the city. So 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:38.159 we have about 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:44.659 11,000 employees. We do about 7,000 different projects 00:02:44.659 --> 00:02:45.479 every year, and we 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:50.620 work throughout the world on six continents. And so in this 00:02:50.620 --> 00:02:52.800 project like 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:59.639 this, we are again looking at the needs of the sea and 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.199 making sure that what's 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:06.750 happening on this project makes sense for the city of Dent 00:03:06.750 --> 00:03:08.960 on. What I'm going to 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.530 talk about today, or what we're going to talk about today 00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:14.319 again, is the project at 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:17.840 hand. I want to tell you a little bit about the folks that 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:19.599 are doing the work 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.750 today and a little bit about me. My background, I've been 00:03:22.750 --> 00:03:23.479 at Black and Beach 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:28.520 since 1992. I was 10 years old when I started, if you're 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.319 doing that math. And 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.860 most of my background is actually in air quality control, 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:35.960 so I've done a lot of 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.879 projects like this, although now I serve more in an 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.599 oversight role. And so I 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.169 graduated from Iowa State University with a degree in 00:03:47.169 --> 00:03:48.080 mechanical engineering. 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:53.780 And so that's, it's been a fun time. I've enjoyed my time 00:03:53.780 --> 00:03:54.599 of Black and Beach. 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.250 I'm first Michael Fisher, who's the project manager, as I 00:03:58.250 --> 00:03:59.439 said. He will be 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:02.879 talking about the assignment that we did here for Black and 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:04.120 Beach, and also giving 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.560 you a summary of the conclusions that he came to, that the 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:08.800 project team came to. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:13.639 Michael has 26 years of experience in the power industry. 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:14.479 He's served in a 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:17.220 variety of roles. He's been an engineering manager. He's 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:19.079 been a project design 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.560 mechanical engineer. He's done construction and startup in 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.120 the industry. 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.819 He's also served as an honors engineer, similar to this 00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:27.160 project. He has a 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.160 mechanical engineering degree from the University of Tulsa, 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.079 and so he will first 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.689 start us out and kick it off. Then we'll turn it over to 00:04:34.689 --> 00:04:36.480 Mike Rinkle. Mike Rinkle 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:41.089 has a bachelor's of science degree in chemical engineering 00:04:41.089 --> 00:04:42.000 and a master's 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.709 degree in environmental engineer from the University of 00:04:44.709 --> 00:04:47.639 Nebraska, and he has 17 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.819 years of experience all in permitting, and he'll be talking 00:04:50.819 --> 00:04:52.379 about the permitting 00:04:52.379 --> 00:04:55.819 process that was done on this project. And then finally 00:04:55.819 --> 00:04:57.839 Paul Lee will finish us 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:01.259 off, and he will talk about the emissions issues and also 00:05:01.259 --> 00:05:02.759 the air quality control 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:08.209 associated with the Denton Energy Center. And Paul Lee has 00:05:08.209 --> 00:05:09.439 a chemical engineering 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:13.569 degree from the University of Colorado at Boulder and has 00:05:13.569 --> 00:05:14.839 been in the power 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.019 industry for 13 years. So we have a very experienced team 00:05:18.019 --> 00:05:19.439 who's going to talk, and 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.889 with that I'm going to turn it over to Mike Rinkle to kick 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:24.519 us off on the details of the 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:37.439 work. Thank You Diane. It's a pleasure to be here this 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.000 morning discussing this 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:45.000 with the PUB. So as Diane has indicated, I'm Michael Fisher 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:45.639 . I'm the project 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.319 manager for this for the Denton Energy Center work. First 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:49.959 thing I'm going to go 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.620 over here is the the overview of the assignment and the 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:55.399 conclusions, and after 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:57.670 I give that overview then I'll turn it over to my team, and 00:05:57.670 --> 00:05:58.480 my team will get a 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.870 little bit further in depth with what they with what the 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:02.079 conclusions were from 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:08.560 from this work. We were contracted as Black & Veatch was 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:10.120 contracted to do an 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:14.819 independent review of this of this project, Denton Energy 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:16.079 Center. The Denton 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:20.410 Energy Center is 12 reciprocating and internal combustion 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:21.399 engine engines, 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:24.879 commonly called rice, within the with that's an industry 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:26.360 term, and it's used 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.079 for the Denton Energy Center is used for peaking purposes. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.959 Wartzilla is the engine manufacturer for the Denton Energy 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:35.759 Center, and Burns and 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.910 McDonald is the engineering constructor. The surrounding 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:43.680 community has concerns 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.300 with the permit application and the permit process, and 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:49.720 therefore Denton 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.439 Municipal Electric retained Black & Veatch to perform an 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:53.160 independent 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:58.709 analysis of the permit process and the application. DME has 00:06:58.709 --> 00:07:00.560 requested that we 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:05.879 compare the DEC to the Red Gate facility. Red Gate facility 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.439 being another rice 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.000 unit that's down in South Texas. 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:18.680 So our conclusions from this from our work was that the the 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:19.680 DEC permit 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:23.819 application was filed correctly, and the the DEC permit is 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:25.120 valid and filed in 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:30.220 accordance with the EPA and the TCEQ requirements. A little 00:07:30.220 --> 00:07:31.480 bit about the DEC 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.920 permit was that it was permitted as a peaking unit in an 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:36.160 ozone non-attainment 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.449 area, and it will get into some of the definitions a little 00:07:39.449 --> 00:07:40.399 bit further, you 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:45.240 know what non-attainment and a peaking unit is. Well I'll 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:46.319 have some of my 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.920 colleagues address that. It was permitted as a minor source 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.920 using standard permit 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:57.920 designation, and the units are limited to a number of 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.279 limited to run hours to 3,200 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.240 hours per year. That's out of a total of what would be 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.199 considered 8760 would be 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:10.129 the maximum run hours, but this this unit is permitted for 00:08:10.129 --> 00:08:11.839 a maximum of 3,200 run 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:21.120 hours per year per unit. Our conclusions continued would be 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:22.600 that Black and Beach 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:25.399 has no concerns with the DEC project meeting the emissions 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:26.600 limits in its 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.149 permit. That the DEC has an enhanced admission control 00:08:31.149 --> 00:08:32.799 package and the 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.600 emissions testing performed by a third-party agency using 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:36.240 procedures 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:43.389 approved by the EPA and TCEQ with witness by individuals 00:08:43.389 --> 00:08:44.360 from the TCEQ 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:50.509 and Black and Beach. And finally it's it's an industry 00:08:50.509 --> 00:08:51.240 standard for the 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.440 emissions performance to be backed by contractual guarantee 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:55.179 from the engine 00:08:55.179 --> 00:09:02.039 manufacturer. With that I'll turn this over to Mike Rinkle 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:03.200 who's our 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.549 environmental engineer and our permitting specialist. 00:09:07.549 --> 00:09:12.919 Thanks Michael. 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.340 Good morning everyone. Morning. My name is Mike Rinkle and 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:18.200 as Michael said I'm the 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.149 permitting specialist for this project on this team. Today 00:09:22.149 --> 00:09:23.279 I'm going to talk to you 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.730 a little bit about the permitting process here in Texas. In 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:28.600 Texas well 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.929 actually the Clean Air Act is the program that regulates 00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:34.080 the emissions 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.789 of pollutants into the atmosphere and EPA is the agency on 00:09:37.789 --> 00:09:38.840 the federal side 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:43.169 that regulates or promulgates the Clean Air Act. Here 00:09:43.169 --> 00:09:44.559 within the state of Texas 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:48.519 EPA has delegated that authority to the Texas Commission 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:49.559 Commission of 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:55.299 Environmental Quality or TCEQ. So TCEQ is the agency that 00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:56.759 has the authority to 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:01.600 issue the permits under the Clean Air Act. Within the Texas 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:02.559 Commission of 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:07.279 Environmental Quality they've developed a hierarchy of how 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.639 they want to maximize 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:13.899 the use of their resources within their agency. Obviously 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:14.879 there are a lot of 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.799 industry here in the state of Texas and so to maximize the 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:18.759 effective use of 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.860 their resources they've developed this hierarchy of doing 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:24.080 the permits within 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.519 the state of Texas. And as you can see from this pyramid 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:28.600 the top is the 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.840 de minimis. That basically is the most easiest way of 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:35.200 obtaining a permit in 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.350 order to be able to construct your emission source. What 00:10:38.350 --> 00:10:39.039 that is is 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.610 basically saying that there are very discernible emissions 00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:43.279 going to be 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:47.830 polluted into the atmosphere and TCEQ has basically said 00:10:47.830 --> 00:10:49.960 they didn't want to 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:54.120 waste the time of their resources to have to kind of go 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:55.879 through and develop a 00:10:55.879 --> 00:11:00.000 permit for those types of sources. There are obviously 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.600 restrictions that you have 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.120 to meet in order to be the de minimis so you have to have 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:04.840 very low 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:10.450 emissions in order to be a de minimis source and so that's 00:11:10.450 --> 00:11:11.039 the de minimis 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:16.149 source. The next category beyond that is again you're gonna 00:11:16.149 --> 00:11:17.440 have probably a little 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.889 bit more emissions but you're still going to have less 00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:22.039 resources having to 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.980 be spent from the TCEQ in order to get those types of 00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:26.440 sources and that's what 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:29.340 they call the permit by rule. There are approximately 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:30.799 around a hundred different 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:34.860 types of facility types that the Texas Commission of 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:37.120 Environment Quality has 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.240 developed that if you meet certain emission limit 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.720 requirements and you emit 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:47.399 lower emissions you can go ahead and attain a construction 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:49.039 permit via their 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:53.490 mechanism of a permit by rule. The third mechanism to get a 00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:55.559 permit is what the 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:59.889 Texas Commission of Equality calls is the standard permits. 00:11:59.889 --> 00:12:01.159 The standard permits 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.200 are basically they've developed a lot of similar type of 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:06.559 facilities within the 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.980 state that have the similar type of emissions and as long 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:11.279 as they're all are 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:14.730 similar then they're gonna have the same type of permit 00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:15.799 requirements and so 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.610 they've kind of categorized those into what they call the 00:12:18.610 --> 00:12:19.960 standard permits. The 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.710 standard permits are basically types of facilities that can 00:12:23.710 --> 00:12:24.440 't meet the 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:29.340 de minimis or the permit by rule emission limits or 00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:30.779 requirements but they 00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:34.879 do not require to go through the more exhaustive type of 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.200 the NSR, new 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:40.080 source review permits and so then the new source permits 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:40.919 are the ones 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.909 where it's going to be taking a lot of time and effort by 00:12:43.909 --> 00:12:45.120 the Texas Commission 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.559 of Environment Quality staff to review the application and 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:49.399 then develop the 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:55.799 permit and then as Michael Fisher mentioned earlier the DEC 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:56.600 and Energy 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.159 Center did get their permit through the mechanism of the 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:00.000 standard permit 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.730 whereas the Red Gate facility went through the new source 00:13:03.730 --> 00:13:04.720 review permit 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:10.710 mechanism. This slide is similar to the last slide in that 00:13:10.710 --> 00:13:12.279 but this kind of goes 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:15.350 through a general overview of how the Clean Air Act process 00:13:15.350 --> 00:13:17.080 really works. So 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.649 you have what we call the new source review under the Clean 00:13:20.649 --> 00:13:21.480 Air Act and 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.149 within the new source review you have two different kind of 00:13:24.149 --> 00:13:24.960 categories that 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.480 you're going to be going through your permitting process. 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:28.919 The first 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:33.080 differentiator is you look at where the facility is located 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:34.279 at. Is it 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.909 located in a non-attainment area or an attainment area? 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:38.440 What that basically 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:41.509 means is the EPA has developed on national ambient air 00:13:41.509 --> 00:13:42.440 quality standards 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.639 for several criteria air pollutants and that means that 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:47.120 they've developed 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.779 national ambient standards or limits that are in the 00:13:50.779 --> 00:13:52.639 atmosphere that areas 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:58.600 must be able to obtain. If your area is above those limits 00:13:58.600 --> 00:13:59.440 then you're 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.779 classified as a non-attainment area and as Michael 00:14:01.779 --> 00:14:04.039 mentioned before the city of 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:07.549 Denton is in a ozone non-attainment area so it'd be 00:14:07.549 --> 00:14:09.720 classified as a non-attainment 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.159 area so you're following that non-attainment area pathway 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:13.799 within the 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:19.730 new source review permitting process. Within each of those 00:14:19.730 --> 00:14:21.000 two different 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.070 categories either attainment or non-attainment you look at 00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:24.799 whether or not 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.789 your facility or your project is going to be classified as 00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:28.759 either a major or 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:33.190 minor contributor to that air pollution and then that just 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:34.440 basically then 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:38.519 develops whether or not you go through major permitting or 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.279 minor permitting. As 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:45.960 discussed DEC went through the standard permits so they 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:47.480 were all classified as 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.519 minor permit action under the Texas Commission of 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:52.360 Environmental Quality 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:57.200 whereas the Red Gate facility went through the major route 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:58.399 and they went 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.950 through what we call the prevention of significant deterior 00:15:00.950 --> 00:15:01.720 ation permitting 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:07.129 process. So that was the permitting process for the Denton 00:15:07.129 --> 00:15:09.120 Energy Center so 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:16.570 with that I'm going to turn it over to Paul Lee. Good 00:15:16.570 --> 00:15:21.320 morning so I think to 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.460 start off as important to recap some of the things that 00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:24.320 Mike and Michael have 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.320 referred to although the Denton Energy Center and Red Gate 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.080 are utilizing similar 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:34.230 engines the intent of the two facilities are very different 00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:35.080 and it's very important 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.440 to note that Red Gate is a base load plant it runs all the 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.659 time 8,760 hours 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:44.659 is the number of hours in a year. The intent of Denton 00:15:44.659 --> 00:15:45.879 Energy Center though is 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:49.679 a peaking facility it'll be running limited to 3,200 hours 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.200 per year so when 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.789 energy demand is high such as summer times when everyone's 00:15:54.789 --> 00:15:55.240 using their 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.129 air conditioners that's when Denton Energy Center could be 00:15:58.129 --> 00:16:00.039 turned on. Therefore 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.679 the DEC or Denton Energy Center could apply for a standard 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:04.700 permit whereas Red 00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:08.139 Gate being a base load facility had to go through PSD 00:16:08.139 --> 00:16:10.360 review. Also in addition to 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:14.289 being similar engines the control equipment both facilities 00:16:14.289 --> 00:16:15.799 are the same. 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.500 Selective catalytic lid of reduction also commonly known as 00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:20.759 an SCR is used to 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:24.350 reduce NOx emissions with the injection of a reagent 00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:26.759 ammonia in both cases and 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:31.389 also both facilities will have an oxidation catalyst which 00:16:31.389 --> 00:16:32.179 I think I 00:16:32.179 --> 00:16:35.809 accidentally hit a button. Oxidation catalyst is used to 00:16:35.809 --> 00:16:37.600 reduce the CO and VOC 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:42.309 emissions as well as any ammonia slip that could go past 00:16:42.309 --> 00:16:47.419 the SCR. However the 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:51.820 emission rates are different at both facilities. As you can 00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:52.879 see from this 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.049 table the things that are in bold are the higher emissions 00:16:56.049 --> 00:16:57.120 rates between the 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.090 two facilities. Emission rates are provided by the 00:16:59.090 --> 00:17:00.399 equipment manufacturer 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:05.259 in this case with Rosilla to help develop the air permit 00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:06.079 within the 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:11.200 constraints of all the regulations TCAQ, Federal EPA and as 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:12.160 you can see the CO 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.390 emissions are slightly lower but the NOx are significantly 00:17:16.390 --> 00:17:17.720 lower as well as the 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:22.809 SO2 and the VOCs. So the question is why? If we have two 00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:24.559 similar engines at both 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.039 facilities and they're both utilizing the same emissions 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:27.920 controls and how is 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:33.859 one facility such lower in NOx CO and VOC emissions? Well 00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:34.920 similar to how cars 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:38.079 are not all the same, not all SCRs and oxidation catalysts 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:39.519 are made equal. 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.759 Some parts of the country have very very stringent and 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:44.400 tight regulations such as 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.880 Southern California for example where pollution is very 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.599 very high. For this 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.650 purpose Rosilla has created an enhanced emissions package 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:54.559 and the Denton Energy 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:58.000 Center is equipped with this same type of package so 00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.599 therefore the SCR is just 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.589 a higher performing SCR, the catalysts as well as the 00:18:02.589 --> 00:18:05.160 oxidation catalyst. It's also 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.609 important to note that the emission guarantees are a make 00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:09.680 right guarantee. 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.329 There is contractually no way that they can buy themselves 00:18:13.329 --> 00:18:14.119 out of these 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:20.269 guarantees. They are responsible and liable to to use all 00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:21.359 the financial funds 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:27.799 as well as the manpower to make these emission limits met. 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.319 So now we have all 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.220 that covered then how do you demonstrate that emission 00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:35.599 limits are met? So the 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.279 Federal Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, has 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:39.559 developed a series of test 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.369 methods that is used throughout the industry and those will 00:18:43.369 --> 00:18:44.880 be used once the 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.640 plant is built and constructed and starting up to 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.079 demonstrate what 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.319 emissions are being produced. The engines will be at full 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.200 load in order to 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.759 challenge the engines at most maximum potential for 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:01.200 emissions and then we will 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.150 hire a third party contractor to execute the test. The 00:19:04.150 --> 00:19:05.480 third party contractors 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:08.440 specialize in these tests. They have a certification as 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:09.519 well so I'll call the 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:15.670 qualified stack testing individual. So they're certified, 00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:16.000 they're 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.839 third party, there's no collusion or fake news with what 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.279 they do. They will 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:27.529 perform a test and prior to a test 30 to 60 days before the 00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:29.400 test occur will notify 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.910 TCEQ. They'll have every opportunity to come to the testing 00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:33.880 facility and make 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.660 sure the apparatus is set up correctly, that there's no 00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.160 operating errors that 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:43.539 it's occurring and they often do come, not always, but they 00:19:43.539 --> 00:19:44.640 at least have the 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.039 opportunity to come. Regardless of whether or not they 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:48.920 witness the test, the 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.990 test report will be developed and submitted to them. They 00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:54.039 'll have to review 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.710 it and make sure the emission limits are met and then they 00:19:56.710 --> 00:19:57.480 could issue an 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.319 operating permit. Only then can the facility actually 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.400 operate. So emission 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.740 limits should be met regardless when this facility is 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:11.160 operating. So with that, 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.750 that was a presentation and I'd like to open up for 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:15.640 questions. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.640 Questions? 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:35.640 [inaudible] 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:40.539 These are from the permanent application. Yes. So these 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:43.559 figures, they are all 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.890 within the minor source permit and specifications for a non 00:20:47.890 --> 00:20:49.440 -attainment zone. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:55.079 Deb, would you mind? I'm sorry. No, thank you. So these 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.200 figures, which are all 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:05.019 fit within the requirements for a minor source permit in 00:21:05.019 --> 00:21:06.640 our non-attainment 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.759 zone, these were taken from the paperwork of the 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.039 manufacturer of Wurzala. 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:18.240 This is what they said on paper. Yes, so these are taken 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:19.200 from the apartment and 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.680 these are provided from the OEM, in this case Wurzala. Yeah 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:24.960 , so just to 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.549 understand where you guys fit in, so Black and Veatch is 00:21:28.549 --> 00:21:29.839 not, you're not 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.769 standing behind these and saying we guarantee that when 00:21:34.769 --> 00:21:36.200 they turn on the 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:42.440 plant, these, you know, it will test exactly like this. 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:43.519 What you're saying is 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:48.359 I understand it is we are confident that if it doesn't end 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:49.599 up testing like this, 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:54.279 that Wurzala is responsible for fixing the problem. Is that 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:55.359 correct? Yeah, 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.440 correct. We are not standing by Wurzala hand-in-hand saying 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.279 that the 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.109 make-right guarantees are going to be met. There's just a 00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:04.200 review of the 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.480 permit itself. Yes. So these were provided from the OEM or 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.359 Wurzala and we're just 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:14.359 evaluating how they submitted and how the permit was done 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:15.440 and were executed. 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.890 Yes. In our opinion it was done correctly. Yeah, and the 00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:20.799 permit is just a 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:26.559 matter of, and correct me if I'm wrong, when the permit, 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:27.119 the air permit is 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.519 submitted to TCEQ, TCEQ as I understand it, they look at 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.480 the paperwork and they 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.509 make sure that the numbers are where they're supposed to be 00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:37.039 and they say kind 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.000 of like you're doing, okay, but if something goes wrong 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.799 then it's on you. Is 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:48.480 that correct? By you I mean, you know, the, whoever's 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.160 submitting the permit. 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:54.039 Yeah, so the permit is approved by TCEQ and if the initial 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:55.119 limits aren't met, I 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.079 had to go back to that make-right guarantee aspect. Yeah. 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:01.099 That the facility 00:23:01.099 --> 00:23:03.119 won't get an operating permit if the initial limits aren't 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.039 met. Exactly. So 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:09.670 therefore Wurzala has to meet these guarantees. So if we 00:23:09.670 --> 00:23:11.319 get to this, to 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.819 start up with the third-party contractors that's doing the 00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:14.200 EPA test 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.920 methods, if CEO comes out higher in a pounds per hour basis 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:18.799 than the standard 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.400 permit allows, then they need to fix that oxidation 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:22.920 catalyst. Whether that means 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:28.200 purchase the whole brand new one. There are many options. 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:30.680 Exactly, there's many options, but they are 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:34.380 responsible for the labor, the parts, and as well as the 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:36.559 lost money. Yeah, and 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.940 so that's why you're not concerned because you know if 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:39.720 something goes 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:42.529 wrong, is that correct? Correct. Wurzala will take care of 00:23:42.529 --> 00:23:43.519 it. Exactly, in our 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.420 experience make-right guarantees are very, very sensitive 00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:47.079 as you can imagine 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:53.230 and they're typically met. My experience, they're always 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:54.960 met. Yeah, end up being met. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.509 They end up being met somehow. Exactly. Brendan, I think 00:23:59.509 --> 00:24:01.240 you had a question. Yeah, some of what 00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:05.839 y'all just discussed confused me a little bit. So in the 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:07.599 application for the 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:14.750 permit, Wurzala submitted their performance emissions, is 00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:15.119 that what 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.740 you're saying? You mentioned OEM stats. So these are the 00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:21.119 stats that the engines 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.569 are going to perform at or they're the stats for what's 00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:27.960 allowable by the permit? 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:34.319 Why don't you put a mic here a little bit. Because the 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:34.680 engines 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.130 perform at something and the permit should be separate than 00:24:38.130 --> 00:24:38.640 what the 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.259 engines actually perform at, right? So when an application 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:46.680 is developed, the 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:50.839 the client will go to the OEM or the manufacturer of the 00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:52.759 engine and they will 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.210 get what they call these guaranteed values. And so the 00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:57.240 manufacturer will 00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:01.799 provide a guaranteed value of we can meet those levels of 00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:03.039 emissions. 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:06.240 Obviously since there will be a contractual obligation to 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.799 meet those, the 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.049 manufacturer will want to be able to operate at a level 00:25:11.049 --> 00:25:12.240 that is lower than 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.680 that. They don't want to be right at that level that they 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:16.079 're going to be 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:20.269 operating. And so they give these contractual values that 00:25:20.269 --> 00:25:21.480 are used for the 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.529 application when you're developing the permit and say we 00:25:24.529 --> 00:25:25.519 will not go above 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.880 these levels. And so those are the levels that will get 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:31.519 into the permit and the 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:35.490 permit basically says you shall not emit above these levels 00:25:35.490 --> 00:25:37.119 . Okay, so then the 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:43.269 the TCEQ won't allow us to operate these engines at any 00:25:43.269 --> 00:25:45.319 higher than what you've 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:50.579 got published right here on this slide. That's not fact 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:53.599 ually correct. Okay. These 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:59.240 these numbers are what was used to develop the application. 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:01.640 So then the TCEQ 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.150 or Texas Commission of Environmental Quality, when they 00:26:04.150 --> 00:26:06.440 write their permit, if you look at the 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:11.259 actual permit, I believe that the permit limits are in what 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:11.359 they are in an 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.519 emission unit called pounds per hour. And so you take these 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:16.640 numbers and you would 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:21.480 develop a pound per hour emission rate. And so in your 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.960 actual permit, the 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:30.319 actual permitted limit is on a pound per hour basis. So you 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:31.359 cannot emit above 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:37.519 that number. Are any of those numbers, if you convert them 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:37.960 into these 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:42.569 numbers, greater than these numbers? They are equal. Okay, 00:26:42.569 --> 00:26:44.279 thank you. Susan, do you have a question? 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.160 I didn't and I think there was a slide in the beginning 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.119 that this is the normal 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:55.740 utility practice. What Denton Energy Center did is normal 00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:56.440 standard in 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:02.960 getting going to the standard permit versus the NSR. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.319 Correct. The way the 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.750 project the project's goals were developed by the city. And 00:27:10.750 --> 00:27:11.480 so you take 00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.049 those project goals and it defines the project. And so once 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:15.920 the project is 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:20.400 defined, you then go look at the mechanism within the TCEQ 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:20.839 realm of 00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:25.039 requirements and they fit into the standard permit realm. 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.200 And it's really 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.609 because we were not a baseload. We are a peaking facility. 00:27:29.609 --> 00:27:30.720 Is that correct or is 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:35.049 that not correct? That is correct. When you're comparing to 00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:36.519 Red Gate. Okay. That is 00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:44.400 correct. Thank you. Can you speak to the process if the 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.480 plant after it's been 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:51.329 issued its operating permit, what occurs if it starts to 00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:53.240 operate outside of its 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.569 emissions limits? Like if we're in non-compliance with our 00:27:57.569 --> 00:27:58.960 permit? So they 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:05.160 so the city then would then they are required to submit 00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:05.920 semi-annual and 00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.450 annual reports to the Texas Commission of Environment and 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:09.559 Quality. Okay. And in 00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:12.730 those reports they will state their compliance. If they are 00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:13.680 out of compliance 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.490 they have to notify the Texas Commission of Environment and 00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:17.480 Quality that they are out of 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:22.779 compliance. The TCEQ then will determine the severity of 00:28:22.779 --> 00:28:23.799 that non-compliance and 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.829 they will make a determination whether or not to issue what 00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:27.759 they call a notice 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.000 of violation. But that's all done within the Texas 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:33.799 Commission of Environment 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.440 and Quality. Okay. And it's all and all the testing is it's 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.200 a self-assessment 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:42.000 type system, self-assessed and self-reported then, right? 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.200 Like all the 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.839 emissions testings that's all done by our personnel or 00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:47.759 people we contract. The 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.210 testing is usually done by a third-party testing agency. 00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:52.200 Similar to the 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.900 initial testing. Correct. Okay. Thank you. They need to be 00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:58.079 certified testers to perform that. Yes. 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.039 And it would be similar to an independent audit of 00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:02.119 financial records 00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:07.480 only on the environment side. Correct. Thank you. 00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:28.359 Questions? Charlie? Questions? Okay. Thank you. So I 00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:33.559 understand that the Redgate 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.549 plant is a baseload plant and the deck is a peaking plant 00:29:37.549 --> 00:29:38.839 so they have different 00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:45.769 purposes which means that the Redgate runs more hours per 00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:49.319 year. But when 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:57.009 testing occurs is the use of the plant factored into the 00:29:57.009 --> 00:29:59.359 emissions testing at 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.079 all? As I understand it, it's simply a matter of what 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.720 emissions are in the air 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:08.589 you know and then calculations are made based on that. No, 00:30:08.589 --> 00:30:09.880 when the third 00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:13.859 party company comes out to do the performance testing they 00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:14.799 need to be at 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.960 certain limits of operation within their realm. So I 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.599 believe it's 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:27.720 90% above 90% of their capacity that they need to be at 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:28.839 when they perform the 00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:31.730 testing. Yes, it's at the moment they perform the testing, 00:30:31.730 --> 00:30:32.640 correct? Correct. 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:37.539 Yes, so just to be clear so that people understand and then 00:30:37.539 --> 00:30:37.799 that the 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.920 public understands that when emissions testing is happening 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:41.559 they're not 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.529 thinking oh well this is a lot for this moment but they're 00:30:45.529 --> 00:30:48.000 only gonna run it X 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.839 number of hours per year, right? It's simply looking at the 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:54.440 emissions at that 00:30:54.440 --> 00:31:00.880 moment. Yes, under the requirements of the law that is how 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:01.319 you perform 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:05.480 the testing. Yes, thank you. I understand that I just 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:05.759 wanted to 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.880 because I think there's a little confusion in the public 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:08.480 about that and 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:14.119 just wanted to clarify. Thank you very much. Any other 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:17.519 questions? No? Thank you. 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.279 Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:29.880 Okay next in the work session. Can we discuss this amongst 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.519 ourselves? Sure. 00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:40.200 Yeah, I was I don't know if anybody else had but I was 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:42.319 wondering if we could have 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:51.619 a discussion at some point about if this does end up 00:31:51.619 --> 00:31:56.000 happening dot the emissions 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.250 at testing exceed the permit what our options might be and 00:32:05.250 --> 00:32:07.039 you know of course 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:11.130 we don't if that ends up happening we don't need to decide 00:32:11.130 --> 00:32:12.200 till that moment 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:16.799 comes but in the sense of you know because it's good to be 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:17.920 prepared for 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:24.069 these things. I would would appreciate a discussion at some 00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:25.440 point before testing 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.319 about you know looking at different hypothetical scenarios. 00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:30.240 I don't know if 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.559 that would have to be a closed session if you know be if it 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:33.359 was a legal issue 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:39.000 and we had questions about liability but I would like you 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.980 know to know ahead of 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:44.920 time what our options might be. Do you mean the testing 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:46.039 before we get an 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.210 operating permit or do you mean after we have an operating 00:32:49.210 --> 00:32:50.519 permit and we're and 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:55.880 we'll get meeting. Before the initial before the testing 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:56.200 when they're 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.440 when they're finished and you know to see if they if they 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.559 grant the permit the 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.109 initial right when they turn it on before that moment. I 00:33:05.109 --> 00:33:06.000 would think and I 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.710 have to have and you're correct it may need to go discuss 00:33:10.710 --> 00:33:12.119 because it's going to 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:15.960 go back to the contract with the engine manufacturer but if 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:16.720 there's a make right 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.339 clause in the contract I'm assuming that would kick in at 00:33:19.339 --> 00:33:21.039 that point. Oh of course 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.920 but I mean you know in the sense of I would hope that we 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.160 don't just leave it 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:27.359 up to that if that were to happen that we wouldn't just 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:28.480 leave it up to Wurzilla 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:34.829 to decide how they're going to fix the problem I would hope 00:33:34.829 --> 00:33:35.960 that Wurzilla that 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:40.289 we would be able to work with them and we would have 00:33:40.289 --> 00:33:43.160 options. The I guess the 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:47.829 short answer to your question is we would obviously enforce 00:33:47.829 --> 00:33:48.720 the make good 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.700 provision we would have independent verification that they 00:33:51.700 --> 00:33:52.519 've made good on 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.259 their on their promise in order to clear that contractual 00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:56.599 hurdle but we would not 00:33:56.599 --> 00:34:00.039 we would not sign off on the make good provision until 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:01.200 independent experts have 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.650 verified that they are in compliance. So we would if should 00:34:04.650 --> 00:34:06.720 that happen we'll enforce it immediately. 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.519 Oh yeah yeah but in terms of the different ways I mean 00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:09.960 there are a number 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.289 of different ways of getting in compliance you can have 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:12.920 them you know 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.539 they could keep tweaking the emissions controls for years 00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:16.440 and years and years 00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.909 you know while the plant remains non-operational and the 00:34:20.909 --> 00:34:21.519 assets 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:27.219 depreciate or you know we could we could tell that we could 00:34:27.219 --> 00:34:27.920 ask them to 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:32.059 say you know take it to take away some of take back some of 00:34:32.059 --> 00:34:33.440 the engines I mean 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:37.769 to what I would hope that we meaning not just PUB but the 00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:38.679 City you know council 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:43.630 would would have some say in the methods by which those 00:34:43.630 --> 00:34:45.440 emissions requirements 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.440 are met. I think those those methods have already been 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:51.599 prescribed in the contract 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.019 and it's pretty simple they're they're either going to have 00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:56.000 to comply or you 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.570 know we can certainly they would be legal for not not comp 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:00.559 lying with the 00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:03.570 terms of the contract but it's a fairly simple thing I mean 00:35:03.570 --> 00:35:04.199 if we're gonna 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:06.710 there's gonna be a cure provision in the contract which 00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:09.679 there is if the if the 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:13.130 engines don't initially perform as necessary we'll have to 00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:13.760 provide them 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:17.199 notice which they don't want you know that's and I think 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:18.440 the gentleman from 00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.320 Black and Beech sort of alert you know alluded to that is 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:22.239 it is definitely their 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.690 best interest to comply immediately and we're not going to 00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:25.760 be in a position where 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.309 we can cancel a contract or necessary scale anything back 00:35:30.309 --> 00:35:31.079 they're going to be 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.679 allowed to to cure right away if they get to a point in 00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:35.840 theory where they can't 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.289 cure then within that brings a whole nother set of 00:35:39.289 --> 00:35:40.599 variables in the ear that 00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:43.050 you're discussing but they're gonna be given a time period 00:35:43.050 --> 00:35:44.039 that's well defined 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.809 the contract to comply immediately okay and it's not and we 00:35:47.809 --> 00:35:48.360 're not gonna have 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:50.139 much say in terms of how they do it they're just simply 00:35:50.139 --> 00:35:50.760 going to have to 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.239 make that technology work they've guaranteed us it will I 00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:54.639 see I see and 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:58.239 this is all in the non redacted contract because I've only 00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:59.960 seen and 00:35:59.960 --> 00:36:03.409 because PUP has only seen the redacted contract we haven't 00:36:03.409 --> 00:36:05.320 been allowed to see 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.880 the unredacted contract so the emissions figures are taken 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:09.840 out of that I assume 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:14.400 that these they're identical that's what I assume right so 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.239 they are contract 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.860 they have contractually bound themselves to meet those 00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:19.079 standards and 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:21.690 obviously that's where our rights come in if they can't 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:22.960 then the whole contract 00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:28.480 is obviously called into question but they will be given a 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:29.920 cure period to come 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.250 into compliance okay and is that period prescribed in the 00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:35.559 in the contract and 00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.280 again because I've only seen we've only seen the redacted 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:40.280 version I need to 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:43.230 defer to our legal counsel on that I'm sure it is I just 00:36:43.230 --> 00:36:44.440 cannot remember it 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:52.980 that period would be okay I wanted to know if anybody knew 00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:54.480 if the contract 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:59.320 allowed for changing of the the permit if if for some 00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:01.519 reason the testing is out 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.969 of compliance and they try to get it in compliance if we 00:37:04.969 --> 00:37:06.400 can change the permit 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.829 to have greater emissions as you know I think we're kind of 00:37:10.829 --> 00:37:12.079 getting off into 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:16.079 discussing specifics of the contract and I don't know that 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.679 okay well I mean I 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.920 thought I think that I take it just discuss the image yeah 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:22.920 I take it that 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.309 there's a right there's a right to cure in the contract and 00:37:25.309 --> 00:37:26.159 there's certain 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.119 things we can do sure within our rights to do that I also 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:31.159 go back to comment 00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:37.369 mr. Lee made I believe about the initial attainment of I 00:37:37.369 --> 00:37:41.360 believe you you gave a 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:47.199 when the percentage but it was basically how many times on 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.440 these initial permits 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:54.920 the manufacturers did I not hear that right that there was 00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:56.800 a certain amount of 00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:04.429 time I'm not exactly sure what coming in front of you when 00:38:04.429 --> 00:38:06.639 I said that in my 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:11.769 experience the the OEMs in this case where Zilla do meet 00:38:11.769 --> 00:38:13.360 the emission limits 00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:16.559 I don't want to put you before you're guaranteeing it but I 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:17.039 just your 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:20.840 experience has been exactly my experience is that the OEMs 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:21.400 do meet 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.849 emission limits they are such a sensitive issue and they 00:38:24.849 --> 00:38:25.519 will not back 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.610 up things that they have to meet because there is no 00:38:29.610 --> 00:38:32.280 financial buyout some other 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:37.440 performance guarantees if they don't meet those there are 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.599 agreed upon financial 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:43.239 terms where they could say okay we didn't meet this sorry 00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:43.880 here's a million 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.599 dollars this case they cannot and it can therefore incur 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:48.280 millions it's got to 00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:51.719 work yeah so my experience yes but I definitely don't know 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:52.519 sure I don't I 00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:54.320 don't want to put you on the spot it would guarantee 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:55.400 anything I want to 00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.050 follow up and what I and correct me Brendan if I'm putting 00:38:58.050 --> 00:38:58.800 words in your 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.809 what you were trying to find out though we cannot change 00:39:01.809 --> 00:39:02.960 that permit at this 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.409 point in time we have to meet the permit that we've 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:07.719 submitted yes as I 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:11.340 understand yes so we can't change that if testing says we 00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:12.960 didn't meet it we 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.760 can't change that at this point great yes live up with that 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:16.480 yes and I had not 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.090 seen you guys contract so I don't know the answer to that 00:39:19.090 --> 00:39:19.679 question you're 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:24.099 asking but yes miss Parker I can do believe that and just 00:39:24.099 --> 00:39:25.239 to go back to what 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:27.789 you were saying sorry this kind of repetitive it just but 00:39:27.789 --> 00:39:28.539 then but just to 00:39:28.539 --> 00:39:33.110 make clear when you said that that they always that you 00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:34.320 know the manufacturers 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.420 always follow through because they have a stake in it you 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:40.719 're not saying that 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:45.269 they never fail the initial testing you're saying that they 00:39:45.269 --> 00:39:46.440 always will do 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:56.940 whatever it takes to make it comply eventually well I 00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:58.320 should in my experience 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.760 it's always been the first time but um regardless I think 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:04.599 if we were to take a 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.719 survey of hundreds more people like me that to get a better 00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:09.920 survey of all of 00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.039 the experiences out there yes yeah there's documentation of 00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.239 failing testing 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:17.800 and tweaking and tweaking and tweaking and tweaking forever 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:23.630 correct forever is not a very long you're talking you're 00:40:23.630 --> 00:40:24.239 talking worst-case 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:28.570 scenario and I mean the sky's not gonna fall in I mean 00:40:28.570 --> 00:40:30.079 these these guys know 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:33.500 what they're doing and we have rights under the contract to 00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:34.280 make it work to 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:38.769 meet our permit standards and we sit here and debate all 00:40:38.769 --> 00:40:40.119 day about what if 00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:44.050 what if what if what if you know it's either gonna work it 00:40:44.050 --> 00:40:46.039 's not gonna work so 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:48.949 I want to add a little bit to what Paul because my 00:40:48.949 --> 00:40:50.639 experience both Paul and I 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.769 have worked together for many years and my experience is 00:40:52.769 --> 00:40:54.000 also air quality control 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.480 yes you can find examples out there where people have had 00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:58.440 to tweak and tweak 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:05.619 and tweak they are rare very very rare most plants pass on 00:41:05.619 --> 00:41:08.280 their first try that 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:12.449 is that is common for the exact reason that Paul said in 00:41:12.449 --> 00:41:15.119 that they will fail on 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.650 something else before they fail on air quality that's just 00:41:18.650 --> 00:41:19.960 the reality of the 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:24.860 situation to your question of what do we do if in the 00:41:24.860 --> 00:41:27.360 unlikely event that this is 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:32.369 the plant that is in that rare situation how do you come up 00:41:32.369 --> 00:41:34.280 with a plan to deal 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.920 with that situation the the first thing you have to look at 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.679 is why is it 00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:43.869 failing and so to come up with a action plan in advance of 00:41:43.869 --> 00:41:45.119 how to deal with that 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:50.880 that's it's it's it's hard to do that but what what my 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.920 recommendation to you 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:58.170 would be is that's frankly our role as owner's engineer to 00:41:58.170 --> 00:41:59.199 help you with that 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:03.130 in addition to this assignment we're serving as your owner 00:42:03.130 --> 00:42:04.400 's engineer so how 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.300 we would handle those situations and how we have in the 00:42:07.300 --> 00:42:10.280 past is to look at the 00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:16.019 cause step through and figure out is it the ammonia system 00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:18.239 is it not tracking 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:21.880 emissions properly is it something in that that's causing 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:22.519 problem is the 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.420 catalyst not functioning properly is something wrong with 00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:27.039 the catalyst is the 00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:32.070 engine not properly inhibiting oxidation in some way and 00:42:32.070 --> 00:42:33.639 that's what's causing 00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:40.860 the the NOx to be a problem is the fuel you're using not in 00:42:40.860 --> 00:42:41.719 accordance to spec 00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:46.119 so we'd have to go through a step-by-step diagnostic 00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:47.039 process to 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.460 figure out what the cause is and so that that was that 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:51.960 would be the activity that 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:55.840 we would go through and and we couldn't do that until the 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:57.559 situation actually I 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:01.039 see so so you're saying so if I understand correctly and 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:02.079 this might 00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.630 involve me kind of retracting my or at least tweaking you 00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:08.199 know my suggestion 00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:11.170 about having a work session about possible scenarios that 00:43:11.170 --> 00:43:12.159 because there are 00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:16.730 so many different possible if something does go wrong there 00:43:16.730 --> 00:43:17.280 are so many 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.699 different ways it could go wrong but you really would not 00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:21.840 know what our options 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.860 that we couldn't even say well it would have to be one of 00:43:23.860 --> 00:43:24.679 these five options 00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:31.070 right we really don't know right so the action plan would 00:43:31.070 --> 00:43:32.800 be immediately get 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:36.630 together in a mitigation group to assess the situation and 00:43:36.630 --> 00:43:37.920 that's your job that 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:42.820 that's what we would do as your owners engineer okay yeah 00:43:42.820 --> 00:43:43.559 thank you very much 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:47.010 and the I don't know if you followed the there's a similar 00:43:47.010 --> 00:43:48.960 work Silla plant in 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:53.820 Humboldt California that failed emissions initial testing 00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:54.559 recently and 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.440 they tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and twe 00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:58.840 aked and yeah that so I 00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:02.070 have a sense and you know anybody can look that up and see 00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:03.599 to see what kind of 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:08.280 difficult complex work is involved not for the layperson 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.159 thank you very much 00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:18.920 uh-huh okay thank you thank you any other questions 00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:24.480 comments okay any 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:29.920 direction I mean I think direction the staff I think we're 00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:31.800 pretty much we've 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:36.699 got our we're online we'll just we'll see when we when we 00:44:36.699 --> 00:44:38.039 get there I think 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.510 we've got got things lined up to make sure it tests and and 00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:43.800 black and beach is 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:47.880 working on our behalf that's correct yes yes we have to put 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:49.280 our faith in them and 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:57.639 they're a good firm yeah okay all right moving on then 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:02.239 actually the of the five 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:07.219 items for work session two were with consultants and three 00:45:07.219 --> 00:45:08.719 are with staff so 00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:12.590 what I'd like to do is move in the work session if it's 00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:17.179 okay item C next which 00:45:17.179 --> 00:45:20.630 is to receive a report hold a discussion and give staff 00:45:20.630 --> 00:45:21.519 direction regarding a 00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:24.960 review of this solid waste department's procedures and 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:26.480 internal controls by 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:32.820 Weaver and Tidwell LLP good morning PV my name is Ethan Cox 00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:33.800 I'm the director of 00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:36.679 solid waste we have John Lawson which is a partner with We 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:37.400 aver and Tidwell here 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.360 with us this morning just a little bit of brief 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:42.320 introduction about how we arrived 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.440 at this point so over the last several months as many of 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.119 you are aware we've 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:49.690 presented or brought forth some projects agreements things 00:45:49.690 --> 00:45:51.119 of that nature in 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.599 solid waste that we found some concerns with following a 00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:56.440 recent change in 00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:00.469 management a lot of those were really related to system of 00:46:00.469 --> 00:46:01.199 controls 00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.639 standardized procedures a lot of that's related to project 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.599 management as well as 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:09.309 contract management and so earlier in the fall the city of 00:46:09.309 --> 00:46:10.519 Denton contracted 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:13.420 with Weaver and Tidwell to come out and perform a review of 00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:14.260 our processes 00:46:14.260 --> 00:46:16.760 controls resource utilization things of that nature in the 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:17.280 solid waste 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:20.519 department so what we have for you today John Lawson is 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:21.480 here he'll go through 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.250 Weaver's findings at the conclusion of his presentation I 00:46:25.250 --> 00:46:25.960 'll be back to the 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.420 podium and I'll walk through what our management responses 00:46:28.420 --> 00:46:29.159 are our plan of 00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:33.389 action for all of those findings so with that I'll turn it 00:46:33.389 --> 00:46:34.360 over to John. 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:39.780 Good morning everyone as Ethan mentioned my name is John 00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:44.400 Lawson I'm a partner in the risk advisory group at Weaver 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:49.960 and just to kind of let you know what that means we look at 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.920 process so we review process 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:56.809 internal control similar to what an internal audit function 00:46:56.809 --> 00:46:57.760 might do so what 00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:02.019 we've what we worked through was not digging into any one 00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:03.400 specific issue I 00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:06.920 know y'all have had conversations much as Ethan mentioned 00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:08.119 about some specific 00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:11.630 issues that have happened but to really try to understand 00:47:11.630 --> 00:47:12.639 the process the 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.190 internal procedures behind some you know just general 00:47:16.190 --> 00:47:17.840 standardized operating 00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:22.409 procedures and certain controls that you would expect to 00:47:22.409 --> 00:47:24.360 see or would like to see 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.320 that help make sure those procedures are executed the 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:28.880 appropriate way every time 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:35.030 they happen so you know we started off by having a you know 00:47:35.030 --> 00:47:35.840 we started off just 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.289 in meetings with with Ethan and different members of the 00:47:39.289 --> 00:47:41.039 management team 00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:45.010 trying to figure out well where are we going to focus this 00:47:45.010 --> 00:47:45.920 project and and 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.340 through those conversations and talking about just some of 00:47:49.340 --> 00:47:50.119 the some of the 00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:54.480 challenges and and in the middle of the transition wanted 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.000 to evaluate some of 00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:00.469 the processes we identified six areas that we were going to 00:48:00.469 --> 00:48:01.639 focus on in our 00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:06.610 review so the first one which we kind of came up with these 00:48:06.610 --> 00:48:07.880 titles landfill 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:12.239 commodity sales and cash collections so really what this is 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:13.039 is you know 00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:17.030 there's you come into the landfill you go through a scale 00:48:17.030 --> 00:48:17.960 house there's 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:22.170 procedures to to to weigh a vehicle to process that 00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:23.719 transaction you have 00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:26.300 vehicles coming in and going out and how do we make sure 00:48:26.300 --> 00:48:27.760 that that those what are 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:31.460 the what are the processes and the controls to make sure 00:48:31.460 --> 00:48:32.500 that we that we 00:48:32.500 --> 00:48:37.239 record every transaction that we weigh every vehicle and we 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.360 also included did a 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:42.320 little bit of looking at where there's commodity 00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.559 specifically just metals where 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:48.000 there might be a market for selling these out of the 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:49.260 landfill how do we do 00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:51.949 that and what are the controls that we use to make sure 00:48:51.949 --> 00:48:52.719 that those are done 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:59.619 properly when that happens there was as Ian as he as he 00:48:59.619 --> 00:49:00.360 said that Ethan 00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:05.639 mentioned a lot of focus on just project management initi 00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.199 ating a project 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:12.099 documenting the person the the protocol for a project what 00:49:12.099 --> 00:49:13.000 is the the 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:16.460 preparation the review the documentation evaluation of 00:49:16.460 --> 00:49:17.840 initiating a project 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:21.070 within the landfill and that could be really implementing a 00:49:21.070 --> 00:49:21.840 new business 00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:27.449 initiative you know changing up processes construction 00:49:27.449 --> 00:49:28.039 projects that 00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:30.530 might happen on the landfill a lot of this could take a lot 00:49:30.530 --> 00:49:31.199 of different 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.099 avenues but what you what we would what you want to see is 00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:36.480 that there's some 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.960 protocols and some procedures in place as we work up to 00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:41.639 approving a project and 00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:45.869 then managing on a go-forward so we tried to get deep into 00:49:45.869 --> 00:49:46.960 how this happens 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:49.500 at the landfill and then associated with that a lot of 00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:50.480 times you'll have 00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:54.519 contracts so we looked at you know contract management 00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:55.360 recording and 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:58.369 tracking within the landfill as well as part of this 00:49:58.369 --> 00:49:59.860 process purchase 00:49:59.860 --> 00:50:05.079 requisition this is not the centralized procurement 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:06.440 function of the city we were 00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:11.280 focused at at the landfill so kind of running up to before 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:12.400 you would do 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.840 procure of you know formal procurement what are the 00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:17.239 procedures internally to 00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:20.039 make sure that this is really something we need to purchase 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:21.000 that the sears not 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.159 you know maybe another way that we could obtain these 00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:27.400 materials and the 00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:31.230 authorization and documentation that happens within within 00:50:31.230 --> 00:50:32.320 the landfill for 00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:37.739 purchasing budget preparation you know we talked about we 00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:38.800 looked at the process 00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:42.719 internally within the landfill to develop their budget kind 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:43.480 of up to the 00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.369 point where it's turned over to finance and then and then 00:50:46.369 --> 00:50:47.480 consolidated into the 00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:50.920 budget with the city it was really the the specific 00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:52.360 procedures within solid 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:57.199 ways to develop the budget for their department and and and 00:50:57.199 --> 00:50:58.760 kind of monitor 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.400 it on a go-forward and then we looked at fixed asset 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.000 inventory and tracking and 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.739 really what that was you know there's a lot of equipment 00:51:06.739 --> 00:51:07.880 and assets out at the 00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:11.690 landfill and you know having an inventory of those and 00:51:11.690 --> 00:51:12.360 tracking and 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.440 utilization of those we tried to understand how that's done 00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:16.000 out at the 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:20.840 landfill and then the last one is contract labor and 00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:22.719 overtime there's a 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:26.619 lot of contract labor at the landfill and we looked at the 00:51:26.619 --> 00:51:27.519 process for 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:32.360 engaging that labor monitoring what they do approving it as 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:33.960 well as approval and 00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:37.539 tracking of overtime for the for the full-time staff at the 00:51:37.539 --> 00:51:39.320 landfill so you 00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:43.389 know it was a lot of different processes and pieces that we 00:51:43.389 --> 00:51:46.079 looked at and you 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.090 know what just to kind of be able to give you a little bit 00:51:48.090 --> 00:51:49.000 more idea of what we 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:54.699 actually did so we spent a lot of time on site at the 00:51:54.699 --> 00:51:56.039 landfill and and with 00:51:56.039 --> 00:52:00.940 Ethan's team from the management team to operations 00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:02.880 supervisors to the to the 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.559 folks working in the scale house we we walked all around 00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:07.719 that place we had 00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.969 meetings with just about everybody I think and really we 00:52:11.969 --> 00:52:13.360 wanted to understand 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:17.010 how these processes occur we wanted that to talk to people 00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:18.360 about how they're done 00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:22.929 we wanted to observe them being performed we wanted to see 00:52:22.929 --> 00:52:23.840 when I have 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:26.809 to log into a system to enter a transaction how does that 00:52:26.809 --> 00:52:27.400 actually 00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:31.489 happen and what does the screen look like that where I 00:52:31.489 --> 00:52:33.559 record that so we we 00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:38.400 we were at the individuals workspace trying to observe and 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:39.679 understand how 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.739 these activities occur and one of the key things that we 00:52:44.739 --> 00:52:47.119 look for our internal 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:51.239 control so as we were preparing for our walkthroughs or our 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:52.119 interviews we would 00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:55.639 say well what are the what are the controls the activities 00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:56.679 we would expect 00:52:56.679 --> 00:53:00.340 to see that kind of give us ourselves and my team a 00:53:00.340 --> 00:53:02.239 benchmark of you know if 00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:06.389 I'm gonna go if we're gonna do let's just take purchasing 00:53:06.389 --> 00:53:07.480 for example if 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.019 there's if we're gonna purchase something we'd expect to 00:53:10.019 --> 00:53:10.480 see that 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:14.829 there's a delegation of authority there are certain levels 00:53:14.829 --> 00:53:16.159 of approval and those 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:20.119 are documented budgeting you would expect that there's 00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:21.519 identification of 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:24.210 individuals that own certain parts of the budget that they 00:53:24.210 --> 00:53:25.119 've worked through 00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:28.570 that and there's approval of that we look at system 00:53:28.570 --> 00:53:30.079 controls so we did some 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:33.699 evaluation of access who has what what are what are the 00:53:33.699 --> 00:53:35.519 access privileges within 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.579 these systems that they use the landfill and what does that 00:53:37.579 --> 00:53:39.480 allow people to do so 00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:42.099 we kind of trying to develop some expected controls that we 00:53:42.099 --> 00:53:42.760 could use as a 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:46.980 benchmark to when we went out into the field to evaluate 00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:47.880 the activities that 00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:50.909 are actually happening and so we use that to map when we 00:53:50.909 --> 00:53:51.960 looked for these 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.889 controls and didn't have to match exactly what what we 00:53:55.889 --> 00:53:57.519 thought we'd see we 00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.260 were looking for the objective of that control being 00:54:00.260 --> 00:54:01.639 achieved and so we mapped 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.789 those out and where where we saw a gap we we provided we 00:54:07.789 --> 00:54:08.840 had an observation we 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:11.800 provided what we call points for consideration or 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:12.920 recommendations to 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:17.329 management if we didn't see a control where we thought we 00:54:17.329 --> 00:54:18.800 would see one that 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:23.639 resulted in a recommendation or if we saw control or a step 00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:24.800 in the process 00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:28.460 that we thought could be enhanced made more efficient that 00:54:28.460 --> 00:54:29.320 resulted in a 00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:36.769 recommendation as well so all of our recommendations here 00:54:36.769 --> 00:54:38.639 are risk rated as 00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:44.789 high moderate or low which is a judgmental risk rating you 00:54:44.789 --> 00:54:45.960 know it really 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:49.400 something that's high would be if there was not a control 00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:50.199 somewhere where we 00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:54.750 thought there needed to be one if we thought there were 00:54:54.750 --> 00:54:56.320 gaps in the process 00:54:56.320 --> 00:55:00.920 you know or lack of a formal process which we'll see some 00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:02.400 of the high-risk 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:05.900 findings specifically where most of them are in the project 00:55:05.900 --> 00:55:06.679 and contract 00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:12.500 initiation and monitoring procedures formalization of 00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:14.000 process so that people 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:17.449 know what to do and how to do it that that those types of 00:55:17.449 --> 00:55:18.719 things we would say 00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:23.179 you know that's a higher risk finding there's a likelihood 00:55:23.179 --> 00:55:24.360 that you could 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.880 have mistakes or errors without having some kind of formal 00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:29.079 procedure there or 00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:32.250 controls to make sure that it's done the way the way you 00:55:32.250 --> 00:55:33.519 expect it to be every 00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:39.019 time moderate would be you know maybe there's a control but 00:55:39.019 --> 00:55:40.000 it's not really 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:43.449 designed to fully address what it's supposed to or there's 00:55:43.449 --> 00:55:44.199 some kind of 00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:46.829 segregation of duties issue maybe you've got people that 00:55:46.829 --> 00:55:48.079 have too many steps in 00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:51.530 the process and we need to break that up lower risk 00:55:51.530 --> 00:55:52.920 findings tend to be more 00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:56.619 operational this is something we could do to maybe gain 00:55:56.619 --> 00:56:00.559 efficiency or better 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:05.750 utilize some of our systems or technology so what we found 00:56:05.750 --> 00:56:06.960 is you know 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:10.010 across these six areas there we found controls in all of 00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:11.280 them even in some of 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:15.409 the areas where there's not what I would say a formal 00:56:15.409 --> 00:56:17.059 process talking to 00:56:17.059 --> 00:56:21.289 different people there there are controls and things that 00:56:21.289 --> 00:56:22.280 they would do 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:27.519 that make sure you know these some some level of procedure 00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:29.719 or review occurs may 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:33.250 not be standardized but we did identify controls across all 00:56:33.250 --> 00:56:34.360 of these areas and 00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:37.400 for the most part we found some recommendations in all of 00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:38.320 these areas as 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:49.760 well I was planning to focus on well these 10 items where 00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:50.840 what we would that 00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:55.789 we risk rated as high and kind of summarize these these 00:56:55.789 --> 00:56:56.920 kind of more 00:56:56.920 --> 00:57:01.309 significant findings for you guys so the first one and 00:57:01.309 --> 00:57:05.039 really the first two here 00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:12.489 relate to the landfill sales and commodity sales process 00:57:12.489 --> 00:57:14.000 the first one is 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:19.039 we're recommending a cost of service study and and really 00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:20.280 what that is if 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:23.909 when there's rates that are established out to landfill if 00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:25.079 you come in and you 00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:29.280 you go through the scale house your vehicle will be weighed 00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.000 you'll pay a 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.909 rate to to dispose of your waste there are multiple rates 00:57:34.909 --> 00:57:35.960 though you know let's 00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:39.650 let me let me give an example of say a refrigerator if I 00:57:39.650 --> 00:57:41.480 want to dispose of a 00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:45.639 refrigerator at the landfill I believe it's $25 to drop it 00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:47.039 off up I think 00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:50.210 that's the rate but but there's a defined rate to dispose 00:57:50.210 --> 00:57:51.079 of a refrigerator 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:55.469 well how did we come up with that rate is what we would ask 00:57:55.469 --> 00:57:56.800 you know what is 00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.360 the what are the steps that we go through to establish that 00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:02.400 rate does it 00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:07.340 cover our costs to receive store process properly dispose 00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:08.800 of a refrigerator well I 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:12.530 don't personally know the answer to that question but but 00:58:12.530 --> 00:58:13.960 having some kind of a 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:18.860 study that supports the rates that we use is what we're 00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:20.440 recommending so 00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:23.510 there's a lot of different rates they're established in the 00:58:23.510 --> 00:58:25.400 paradigm system but 00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:30.309 having some kind of analysis of of what those rates are and 00:58:30.309 --> 00:58:31.920 and how they cover 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:34.800 the landfills costs and how we've determined that that's 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:35.559 the appropriate 00:58:35.559 --> 00:58:43.130 rate is the basis of this recommendation the second one is 00:58:43.130 --> 00:58:44.800 enhanced system access 00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:49.789 controls within the paradigm application so at the scale 00:58:49.789 --> 00:58:50.679 house and 00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:55.420 within this process of you know processing transactions at 00:58:55.420 --> 00:58:56.519 the landfill 00:58:56.519 --> 00:59:01.440 people coming in using the landfill paying their fees 00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:03.039 recording those fees 00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:07.369 in the system there's there's there's there's an 00:59:07.369 --> 00:59:08.320 application that's used 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:12.710 called paradigm and one of the things that we look at or 00:59:12.710 --> 00:59:14.199 really anytime you're 00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:17.320 considering internal control is there are the manual steps 00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:18.760 that happen so this 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:22.869 is what I do as a person working in this process I come I 00:59:22.869 --> 00:59:25.179 use the system I talk 00:59:25.179 --> 00:59:29.199 to the customer the things that I would do but there's also 00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:31.400 what you have the 00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:34.900 ability to do within the system and it might not be part of 00:59:34.900 --> 00:59:36.119 your normal process 00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:41.679 but access allows folks sometimes to do more than what they 00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:43.519 should and just 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:46.610 because they don't necessarily know that or do it on a 00:59:46.610 --> 00:59:48.559 regular basis doesn't mean 00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:51.929 we don't want to restrict access it's a system control it's 00:59:51.929 --> 00:59:53.239 a preventive control 00:59:53.239 --> 00:59:59.019 that we can do so specifically you know we noticed that the 00:59:59.019 --> 01:00:00.840 folks that can 01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:04.800 process transactions in the scale house also have the 01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:06.480 ability to change the 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:10.539 rates and access within the system when we started digging 01:00:10.539 --> 01:00:11.920 a little bit deeper 01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:16.920 really just needs a needs some fine-tuning to make sure 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:18.079 that people 01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:22.789 can't circumvent some of the good controls we do have in 01:00:22.789 --> 01:00:24.199 that process by 01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:27.639 by using some of their their access even though it's not 01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:28.659 necessarily part of what 01:00:28.659 --> 01:00:33.719 they would normally do and in in their part of the process 01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:37.039 so the next five so 01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:42.320 three through seven really all have to do with project 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:43.800 management and contract 01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:49.559 management and not not to rehash and I want to want to 01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:50.440 clarify you know we 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.099 didn't look at any of the specific issues that have 01:00:54.099 --> 01:00:55.840 happened over you know 01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:59.630 mining or or the CNG facility that I know y'all have had a 01:00:59.630 --> 01:01:01.280 lot of conversation 01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:05.300 about over recent months but some of the some of the back 01:01:05.300 --> 01:01:06.960 office processes for 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:11.340 those we did we did talk about with with the solid waste 01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:13.159 team and and really 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:16.809 formally defining what constitutes a project is the first 01:01:16.809 --> 01:01:19.559 step here so having 01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:23.010 you want to get to having procedure and some standard 01:01:23.010 --> 01:01:24.679 operating procedure and 01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:28.840 control but it really starts with what having a definition 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:29.760 of when that that 01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:34.480 procedure would would be required so you know it would be 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:35.639 new business 01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:41.119 initiatives capital projects on the landfill we've given 01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:42.280 some recommendations 01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:44.869 to management of when this would specifically apply but it 01:01:44.869 --> 01:01:45.360 's really 01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:49.469 having a documented clear definition of what a project is 01:01:49.469 --> 01:01:50.480 so they can be 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:54.380 communicated to the team at the landfill when we have an 01:01:54.380 --> 01:01:55.800 issues like this or 01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:59.519 initiatives like this we've got a protocol that kicks in 01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:00.599 and so defining 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:04.070 that formally is really our first recommendation and a lot 01:02:04.070 --> 01:02:04.480 of the 01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:09.559 following ones kind of key off of this first one initially 01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:12.039 so another another 01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:15.889 recommendation is having number five is I'm sorry number 01:02:15.889 --> 01:02:18.000 four a business case 01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:23.539 analysis which we've provided some really specific kind of 01:02:23.539 --> 01:02:25.039 detailed steps 01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:30.360 steps to Ethan and the team on how to start to initiate 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.320 this but it having 01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:37.920 having a staged approach so once once we we determine okay 01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:39.119 we've got a project 01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:42.820 based on our definition of what a project is we're going to 01:02:42.820 --> 01:02:43.480 go through a 01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:48.039 protocol of what are what is the purpose of this project 01:02:48.039 --> 01:02:50.079 why are we doing it is 01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:53.849 it the result you know is it is it are we trying to be 01:02:53.849 --> 01:02:55.639 innovative and we think 01:02:55.639 --> 01:02:59.820 we can you know we think this could be a revenue source or 01:02:59.820 --> 01:03:01.639 this could reduce our 01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:06.909 cost or is this something that we need to do because there 01:03:06.909 --> 01:03:07.880 's a new TCEQ 01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:10.170 regulation and we need to comply with it it could take a 01:03:10.170 --> 01:03:11.360 lot of different things 01:03:11.360 --> 01:03:15.630 but what's the driver for us wanting to do this project and 01:03:15.630 --> 01:03:17.519 what are what's the 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:22.380 desired outcome documenting all this out formally so you 01:03:22.380 --> 01:03:24.599 can have you know 01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:29.329 conversations within all of the kind of key stakeholders in 01:03:29.329 --> 01:03:30.800 the team is really 01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:33.420 kind of a first step and then say okay well here's kind of 01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.079 an initial 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:38.000 documentation and expectation of what we want to achieve 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.679 let's start with that 01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.500 conversation and document it and then we start to move 01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:44.840 forward into more more 01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:48.670 detailed parts of the plan so what are the what are the 01:03:48.670 --> 01:03:50.239 what are the risks or 01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:53.199 the things that we think could go wrong what what are the 01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:54.360 different options that 01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:57.869 we're going to look at that we we know we think this might 01:03:57.869 --> 01:03:58.920 be an avenue this 01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:02.369 could be an avenue what do we think the best way to go is 01:04:02.369 --> 01:04:03.320 and why is it better 01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:07.679 than our other options what are the financial what's the 01:04:07.679 --> 01:04:08.280 financial 01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:14.019 feasibility of this project revenues expenses running some 01:04:14.019 --> 01:04:15.519 kind of sensitivity 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:22.179 analysis on different outcomes so so there's a there's a 01:04:22.179 --> 01:04:24.400 full project and I 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:29.690 guess evaluation business case analysis that we would like 01:04:29.690 --> 01:04:31.239 to see or you know 01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:34.780 that we've recommended be implemented and documented 01:04:34.780 --> 01:04:36.360 thoroughly throughout an 01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:43.460 internal preparation and review process the next one here 01:04:43.460 --> 01:04:46.280 is again kind of once 01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:50.639 you approve a project we have to manage it on a go-forward 01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:54.480 so one thing we've 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.059 we've recommended and and when you have you know 01:04:58.059 --> 01:05:00.239 potentially multiple large 01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:04.250 projects going on at one time having whether it's even just 01:05:04.250 --> 01:05:05.239 one person or 01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:11.090 multiple people someone that's focused on managing projects 01:05:11.090 --> 01:05:12.440 and so that that 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.960 knows what the timeline is what the milestones are what the 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:17.159 expectations are 01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:21.730 where we should be along the path of the project that's 01:05:21.730 --> 01:05:23.559 really monitoring that as 01:05:23.559 --> 01:05:27.070 a centralized component at the landfill is a right is is 01:05:27.070 --> 01:05:28.760 what we're recommending 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.360 here so whether they're the specific project manager that's 01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:34.320 how executing the 01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:37.780 project could be different but someone that's overseeing 01:05:37.780 --> 01:05:39.039 and making sure that 01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:43.880 projects are where they need to be and if they're not how 01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:45.039 are we going to get 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:53.360 them back on track so the next the next one item number six 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:54.880 kind of really goes 01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:58.360 more and getting more into the contract part of what we 01:05:58.360 --> 01:05:59.599 looked at here but the 01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:03.079 really what what are we ask questions what what are the 01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:04.400 different types of 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:08.280 contracts we have what what are the different activities 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:09.559 that would require 01:06:09.559 --> 01:06:14.489 a contract and and you know having a clear definition so 01:06:14.489 --> 01:06:16.000 that folks out at 01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.150 the landfill and the management team out there kind of 01:06:19.150 --> 01:06:20.840 really knows what what do 01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:24.829 we when do we need to have a contract what constitutes a 01:06:24.829 --> 01:06:26.880 contract is something 01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:30.980 we're recommending here and and and I would say this this 01:06:30.980 --> 01:06:32.320 goes into this would 01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.760 include leases purchase contracts of which you know your 01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:36.719 procurement team is 01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:38.780 going to be involved in that at some point but you could 01:06:38.780 --> 01:06:39.519 have purchase you 01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:43.039 could have sale contracts you've definitely got leases but 01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:45.239 but we need to 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:48.679 have the clear definition definition of when we would 01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:50.119 expect a contract to be in 01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:54.760 place and and then kind of adding on to that one number 01:06:54.760 --> 01:06:56.840 seven here is specific 01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:01.880 levels of review and monitoring procedures for a contract 01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:02.840 so if we are 01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:05.719 going to enter into a lease of which there are multiple le 01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:07.559 ases at the landfill 01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:12.110 who needs to review that well I was I would assume it would 01:07:12.110 --> 01:07:13.440 be management team 01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:18.280 at the at the landfill but it might also be the general 01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:20.199 counsel for the city 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:24.429 other members of senior management in the city so laying 01:07:24.429 --> 01:07:25.519 out who are the 01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:29.039 required people that need to review a contract and any kind 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:30.000 of form that could 01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.599 take as well as how are we going to inventory those 01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:35.719 contracts so we know at 01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:38.869 any given time what our contractual obligations are and who 01:07:38.869 --> 01:07:40.400 they are to and 01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:45.300 being able to monitor those terms of the contract and you 01:07:45.300 --> 01:07:47.239 know when does it expire 01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:51.360 are we going to renew this and actively working to manage 01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:52.800 that contract on a go 01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:56.989 forward we've provided some recommendations to management 01:07:56.989 --> 01:07:57.239 on that 01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:02.559 as well so that that that's a lot of meat there on the 01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:03.639 project management and 01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:10.239 contract process from there number eight really was getting 01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:11.460 more into the 01:08:11.460 --> 01:08:15.469 budgeting process strategic budgeting and so really what we 01:08:15.469 --> 01:08:16.039 're talking about 01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:20.500 here is having some clear guidelines or expectations and 01:08:20.500 --> 01:08:24.680 process on when we're 01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:29.079 developing the budget at the solid waste department 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:31.119 internally before it gets 01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.029 pushed up the chain to finance and and consolidated with 01:08:34.029 --> 01:08:35.119 the rest of the city 01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:40.300 they have to develop their budget and you know what are the 01:08:40.300 --> 01:08:40.760 different 01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:42.909 departments what are the different individuals that are 01:08:42.909 --> 01:08:43.399 going to own 01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.850 certain parts of the budget what's the timeline with which 01:08:46.850 --> 01:08:47.640 the budget is going 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:53.159 to be prepared you know what are what are the expectations 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:54.279 within the budget 01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:57.970 and the documentation for certain assumptions so you know 01:08:57.970 --> 01:08:59.399 you don't have 01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:03.090 instances where it's just well we had we had that number 01:09:03.090 --> 01:09:04.479 there last year so we're 01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:07.720 not going to roll it forward we want assumptions if there's 01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:08.520 going to be an 01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:12.989 increase in cost for certain areas if there's large budget 01:09:12.989 --> 01:09:14.239 line items that 01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:18.270 have big values in them what what let's break this down let 01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:19.159 's talk about what 01:09:19.159 --> 01:09:24.159 really goes into this so that you have more of a strategic 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:25.560 initial budget but 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.010 it also helps you monitor the performance against your 01:09:29.010 --> 01:09:30.920 budget in a more detailed 01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:36.329 kind of progressive way as you go forward these last two 01:09:36.329 --> 01:09:37.800 have to do with 01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:43.220 contract labor and overtime a strategic staffing plan is 01:09:43.220 --> 01:09:44.359 what we've recommended 01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:49.270 here and it really gets into beyond just lay direct 01:09:49.270 --> 01:09:51.680 contract labor and overtime 01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:57.000 but more of a detailed analysis of you know how much time 01:09:57.000 --> 01:09:58.479 does it take to 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:03.180 really operate the landfill and how much labor do we need 01:10:03.180 --> 01:10:04.600 on a daily weekly 01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:08.789 monthly annual basis what are those people in different 01:10:08.789 --> 01:10:10.800 positions doing what 01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.810 do we need them to do at different levels what kind of 01:10:15.810 --> 01:10:17.399 capacity do we know 01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:21.630 we need because we can go from being really slow to really 01:10:21.630 --> 01:10:22.640 busy in a very 01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:26.800 short amount of time and how much do we want to rely on how 01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.079 much are we relying 01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:31.840 on contract labor now how much do we want to be relying on 01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:33.159 and you have a 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:37.489 benchmark not to say that it's would never deviate from the 01:10:37.489 --> 01:10:39.119 plan but you have 01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:43.810 some kind of expectation that you can then manage from so 01:10:43.810 --> 01:10:45.199 that's that's that's 01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:48.890 the that's the recommendation there and then really just 01:10:48.890 --> 01:10:50.000 there is a lot of 01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.550 labor and overtime and having some more kind of oversight 01:10:54.550 --> 01:10:58.399 and management of you 01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:01.069 know be a bit of all of that but also looking back over 01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:02.359 time and seeing where 01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:07.779 where where are we using our direct labor what are we 01:11:07.779 --> 01:11:10.680 asking them to do are 01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:14.659 we happy with the service that we're getting why do we have 01:11:14.659 --> 01:11:15.840 certain people 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:18.390 maybe that are constantly working over time and is there 01:11:18.390 --> 01:11:19.359 some more strategic 01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:24.100 way we could do scheduling to reduce over time maybe do 01:11:24.100 --> 01:11:25.960 some some staggered 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:28.859 scheduling that you have people coming in at different 01:11:28.859 --> 01:11:30.359 times and reduce any one 01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:37.949 individual working working over working over time so those 01:11:37.949 --> 01:11:39.079 are kind of the key 01:11:39.079 --> 01:11:43.640 our key findings the high the items that we dubbed as 01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:46.039 higher risk from this point 01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:48.569 forward in the presentation we've got supplemental 01:11:48.569 --> 01:11:49.960 information here which I'm 01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:55.039 happy to continue walking through if you if you would like 01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:56.800 or I can stop here and 01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:02.720 ask answer any questions yeah does anybody have looking 01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:02.960 through the 01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:07.800 supplemental information I think you've touched upon the 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:09.520 high priority items 01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:15.720 which is great but you know if there's any questions or 01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:16.760 concerns about some of 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:24.210 the moderate items or moderate risk recommendations or even 01:12:24.210 --> 01:12:25.079 the low as far 01:12:25.079 --> 01:12:36.529 as that goes or even more and just I gathered from the 01:12:36.529 --> 01:12:37.319 information that 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:41.560 they're working on all of these high medium low yes ma'am 01:12:41.560 --> 01:12:43.119 so I believe once 01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:47.039 I'm done talking Ethan has is gonna come and give you a 01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:49.119 brief on all 21 high 01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:53.960 medium low they're all they're working to respond to each 01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:55.119 of them that is 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:58.560 correct well and I just want to say I think this is a 01:12:58.560 --> 01:12:59.880 healthy thing for every 01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:02.829 organization to go through and if you don't have high 01:13:02.829 --> 01:13:04.760 moderate and low there's 01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:09.210 probably something wrong so I think it's very healthy that 01:13:09.210 --> 01:13:10.159 we identified these 01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:17.729 things and I had a question about the process I was just 01:13:17.729 --> 01:13:20.000 wondering did you 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:29.699 work with the city auditor in this or to what extent we we 01:13:29.699 --> 01:13:31.079 did not work with the 01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:36.000 city auditor in this and well to the extent that the city 01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:36.920 auditor had done 01:13:36.920 --> 01:13:41.250 some procedures out at the landfill prior to us coming on 01:13:41.250 --> 01:13:43.319 site we we tried 01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:47.880 to not duplicate that effort so we wanted to make sure that 01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:48.520 we were 01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:52.579 spending our time looking at you know not doing something 01:13:52.579 --> 01:13:53.920 that had just been 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:57.520 done by the city auditor and really focusing on things 01:13:57.520 --> 01:13:58.760 where we could where 01:13:58.760 --> 01:14:02.270 we could be of best use to to to the city and to the 01:14:02.270 --> 01:14:04.520 management team so from 01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:07.960 a standpoint of making sure we weren't duplicating effort 01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:09.039 that was that was 01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:14.680 definitely a consideration. I have a comment or maybe a 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:16.039 question it appears 01:14:16.039 --> 01:14:20.520 that everything that was brought up and mentioned are 01:14:20.520 --> 01:14:23.899 common-sense basic business 01:14:23.899 --> 01:14:26.800 principles that I don't care if it's widgets or digits 01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:27.859 people ought to be 01:14:27.859 --> 01:14:33.100 doing. In sitting on this board over the last year and a 01:14:33.100 --> 01:14:34.960 half I don't I'm not 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:37.420 sure that there's not one area that we haven't had 01:14:37.420 --> 01:14:38.479 presentations on so 01:14:38.479 --> 01:14:42.810 somebody's looked at. Then they come to the board for 01:14:42.810 --> 01:14:45.079 disclosure and comments and 01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:48.529 then they go to City Council. So what I'm getting out of 01:14:48.529 --> 01:14:49.560 this is that while you 01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:54.140 found this high medium and low it's not that these things 01:14:54.140 --> 01:14:55.840 aren't being looked at 01:14:55.840 --> 01:14:59.819 but they're within the departments from a control 01:14:59.819 --> 01:15:02.399 standpoint there's not as much 01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:08.600 formality and in some cases procedure to monitor that on a 01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:10.600 regular basis day to 01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:16.159 day month to month. That's an accurate statement so you 01:15:16.159 --> 01:15:16.960 know they're 01:15:16.960 --> 01:15:21.859 still doing business out there and people are trying to do 01:15:21.859 --> 01:15:22.600 their job and 01:15:22.600 --> 01:15:27.670 what they they think they need to do but from when we come 01:15:27.670 --> 01:15:29.920 in we're looking for 01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:33.489 kind of we're looking for standard process we're looking 01:15:33.489 --> 01:15:34.359 for internal 01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:39.770 control and we also want to see some kind of documentation 01:15:39.770 --> 01:15:41.199 that that we can 01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:45.119 roll so so I don't say oh this control you've got a control 01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:46.279 here but the only 01:15:46.279 --> 01:15:49.079 thing I can base that on is that somebody told me that they 01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:50.279 do that. So 01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:54.850 you know like you said there's there's there's business is 01:15:54.850 --> 01:15:56.960 happening they're 01:15:56.960 --> 01:15:59.869 there they're working through things they bring things here 01:15:59.869 --> 01:16:00.539 for you all to 01:16:00.539 --> 01:16:05.000 review. The level of documentation that we were able to see 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:06.479 that would support 01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:09.989 kind of the the procedure and the review and the 01:16:09.989 --> 01:16:13.000 preparation and the performance 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:16.779 of some of the controls you know that that's where some of 01:16:16.779 --> 01:16:17.960 our review art some 01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:21.090 of those moderate and lower risk recommendations go is to 01:16:21.090 --> 01:16:22.079 formalizing and 01:16:22.079 --> 01:16:27.340 documenting some of those procedures so that you know that 01:16:27.340 --> 01:16:28.560 it just really helps 01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:31.270 you make sure that they happen every single time and that 01:16:31.270 --> 01:16:31.960 they happen 01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:37.319 thoroughly and consistently. 01:16:38.359 --> 01:16:48.590 Any other questions? No? Okay thank you. Thank you all very 01:16:48.590 --> 01:16:48.920 much. Now the solution. 01:16:48.920 --> 01:17:00.350 John gets the fun part of the presentation. I drew the 01:17:00.350 --> 01:17:03.119 short end of the stick today. So I'm 01:17:03.119 --> 01:17:06.210 gonna go through these at a fairly high level and so 01:17:06.210 --> 01:17:07.359 certainly if you have 01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:10.810 questions as we go through the staff responses and the 01:17:10.810 --> 01:17:11.800 status feel free to 01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:15.550 stop me. One of the things I'll say at the outset is is I 01:17:15.550 --> 01:17:16.720 want to thank my 01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:20.239 staff they spent a lot of time with John and his folks and 01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:21.399 I'm continually 01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:23.789 impressed about how open-minded everyone is out there. A 01:17:23.789 --> 01:17:24.640 lot of this was 01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:27.079 challenging what they do every day. Show me how you do it 01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:29.000 and I'm just always 01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:32.920 really appreciate the the openness and the willingness to 01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:34.079 go through these 01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:36.340 processes and willingness to change and make no mistake we 01:17:36.340 --> 01:17:37.000 have a lot of things 01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:40.439 going on in the solid waste department right now. There's 01:17:40.439 --> 01:17:41.640 21 of these here like 01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:45.079 I said I'm gonna hit them at a very high level. Overall I 01:17:45.079 --> 01:17:46.359 want to kind of echo 01:17:46.359 --> 01:17:48.909 what John said though is that a lot of this comes down to 01:17:48.909 --> 01:17:49.880 making sure that we 01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:52.449 have clear roles, responsibilities, the delegation of 01:17:52.449 --> 01:17:53.880 authority. I think in my 01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:56.060 short time in solid waste that's one of the things that I 01:17:56.060 --> 01:17:57.039 've seen is really one 01:17:57.039 --> 01:17:59.819 of our biggest challenges is whose job is this? Because of 01:17:59.819 --> 01:18:01.000 his five people's jobs 01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:04.439 we have a real hard time staying consistent. That's 01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:05.399 especially true when 01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:08.399 it comes to contracts, project management is a lot of the 01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:09.680 operations managers out 01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:12.760 there were really relied upon to be the sole driver of 01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:13.920 those ships and 01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:17.680 whenever that happens something has to give and I think 01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:18.319 that's kind of what 01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:20.810 we've seen in a lot of cases. The other thing is making 01:18:20.810 --> 01:18:21.720 sure that we have those 01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:24.369 standard operating procedures. In some cases we're going to 01:18:24.369 --> 01:18:25.159 be adhering to what 01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:27.960 the city already does. In some cases we're going to build 01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:28.640 some of this from 01:18:28.640 --> 01:18:32.840 scratch and so and lastly I would say like John said there 01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:33.640 's there's a routine 01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:36.289 review of this type of stuff is and it's not just hiring 01:18:36.289 --> 01:18:37.479 someone like Weaver to 01:18:37.479 --> 01:18:40.420 come in and help us out it's my job the management staff's 01:18:40.420 --> 01:18:41.560 job to make sure that 01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:43.680 we're keeping an eye on this stuff on a regular basis 01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:44.840 making sure it's working 01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:48.750 number one but then also making sure that people are adher 01:18:48.750 --> 01:18:49.840 ing to it and when 01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:52.739 that doesn't happen we course correct and learn something 01:18:52.739 --> 01:18:53.640 from that. So with 01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:55.920 that I'm going to go through these very quickly again stop 01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:56.640 me if there's 01:18:56.640 --> 01:19:00.060 something that piques your attention. PFC 01 again those 01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:00.720 are points for 01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:03.260 consideration the first one was to formalize the process to 01:19:03.260 --> 01:19:03.880 evaluate and 01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:07.079 set tonnage rates. Like John said we are going to be 01:19:07.079 --> 01:19:08.199 looking at a cost of service 01:19:08.199 --> 01:19:10.420 review we actually have this within the procurement 01:19:10.420 --> 01:19:11.760 department right now is 01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:15.010 scheduled to go out for solicitation. A couple of things 01:19:15.010 --> 01:19:16.020 that we need to do 01:19:16.020 --> 01:19:19.619 ahead of this and we're actively working on is realigning 01:19:19.619 --> 01:19:20.840 our business units 01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:23.210 within our budget and also making sure that we're alloc 01:19:23.210 --> 01:19:23.960 ating our costs 01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:27.630 correctly. So for instance my position is overhead I can 01:19:27.630 --> 01:19:29.239 have a fairly big impact 01:19:29.239 --> 01:19:31.989 if I allocate my cost incorrectly and that comes home to ro 01:19:31.989 --> 01:19:32.720 ost with the rate 01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:35.460 payers and so our staffs done a fantastic job over the last 01:19:35.460 --> 01:19:36.960 few months and we are 01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:39.949 completing that process as we speak that tees us up for 01:19:39.949 --> 01:19:41.119 that cost of service in 01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:45.479 quarter two. PFC number two is evaluate the process for 01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:46.359 accepting and monitoring 01:19:46.359 --> 01:19:48.989 on-account customers and on-account customer is someone 01:19:48.989 --> 01:19:49.680 essentially that 01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:52.560 we're extending credit to that could be somewhat large haul 01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:53.560 er that does business 01:19:53.560 --> 01:19:56.369 with us on a regular basis it could be someone that this is 01:19:56.369 --> 01:19:57.199 the first time at 01:19:57.199 --> 01:19:59.229 the landfill and they want to do business with us on a 01:19:59.229 --> 01:20:00.000 temporary basis 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:02.789 for the next three quarters. There's standards there that 01:20:02.789 --> 01:20:03.920 exist we're not 01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:07.359 consistently monitoring that and staying on top of it and 01:20:07.359 --> 01:20:08.279 so we are going to be 01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:10.859 assigning staff and making sure that that is something we 01:20:10.859 --> 01:20:11.600 keep an eye on on 01:20:11.600 --> 01:20:15.479 a regular basis. John mentioned a little bit earlier about 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:16.720 system controls and 01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:19.109 making sure that the securities are in place I believe the 01:20:19.109 --> 01:20:19.680 thing that he 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:22.920 mentioned is adjusting rates on the fly for folks at the 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:24.239 scale house this goes 01:20:24.239 --> 01:20:27.199 back into clear roles and responsibilities delegation of 01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:30.960 authority is who should be responsible for adjusting rates 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:32.159 if one needs to be 01:20:32.159 --> 01:20:35.329 adjusted what is the thought process and the audit trail 01:20:35.329 --> 01:20:37.199 behind that separation 01:20:37.199 --> 01:20:39.180 of duties would tell you that whoever is handling the 01:20:39.180 --> 01:20:40.039 billing should not be 01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:43.720 handling the cash and so we have made some of those changes 01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:44.479 that if you are 01:20:44.479 --> 01:20:46.380 adjusting rates you do not need to be in the scale house 01:20:46.380 --> 01:20:47.119 that needs to go to 01:20:47.119 --> 01:20:51.319 someone else. We have this is December 2017 I think that's 01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:52.479 a pretty easy fix 01:20:52.479 --> 01:20:55.930 for the most part but we do need to go through with tech 01:20:55.930 --> 01:20:56.960 services and do a 01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:59.359 securities review and make sure that we update all those 01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:00.239 permissions in our 01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:04.039 billing system. The next two are low priority you have 01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:05.239 monitor commodity rates 01:21:05.239 --> 01:21:09.399 that is mostly for like our metal sales sell of concrete 01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:11.039 sell of soil we have a 01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:13.840 number of revenue lines there if you will and we just want 01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:14.720 to make sure that 01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.489 we're getting the best rate possible as we move through 01:21:17.489 --> 01:21:18.920 those we have assigned a 01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.340 business analyst to keep an eye on that and we will be fir 01:21:21.340 --> 01:21:22.359 ming up that process 01:21:22.359 --> 01:21:25.079 and formalizing that moving forward. This is also a great 01:21:25.079 --> 01:21:26.199 opportunity for us to 01:21:26.199 --> 01:21:29.489 look and say does this constitute a contract is do we want 01:21:29.489 --> 01:21:30.560 to be playing the 01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:33.279 commodities market on a regular basis and trying to strike 01:21:33.279 --> 01:21:34.000 at an appropriate 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:37.449 time or would we prefer to contract this out and have a 01:21:37.449 --> 01:21:38.439 little bit more 01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:42.880 stabilization on our revenues. So we'll be looking at that. 01:21:42.880 --> 01:21:44.319 We also restrict flow 01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:46.699 and track visitors entering and departing the landfill. We 01:21:46.699 --> 01:21:47.319 actually have 01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:50.090 what's known as a bypass lane at the landfill that is for 01:21:50.090 --> 01:21:50.880 our folks that do 01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:54.050 frequent business with us they're not having to go through 01:21:54.050 --> 01:21:54.720 and take up a 01:21:54.720 --> 01:21:57.600 scale house attendees time on a regular basis they come in 01:21:57.600 --> 01:21:58.520 enter their weights 01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:00.819 they move through and then we build them at the end of the 01:22:00.819 --> 01:22:01.560 month they're an 01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:04.189 on-account customer. One of the things that we've seen 01:22:04.189 --> 01:22:05.800 other landfills do is 01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:09.489 kind of set up a toll tag system if you will where they 01:22:09.489 --> 01:22:11.159 have the RFID tag comes 01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:14.310 through a camera reads it snaps it they weigh and they're 01:22:14.310 --> 01:22:15.920 on about their way one 01:22:15.920 --> 01:22:17.550 of the things that we're going to be looking at for our 01:22:17.550 --> 01:22:18.319 capital improvement 01:22:18.319 --> 01:22:21.770 project or capital improvement budget in the years ahead is 01:22:21.770 --> 01:22:22.760 should we redesign 01:22:22.760 --> 01:22:26.470 our inbound and outbound lanes to be more efficient and to 01:22:26.470 --> 01:22:27.399 also tighten up 01:22:27.399 --> 01:22:30.850 some of these controls at the same time using RFID 01:22:30.850 --> 01:22:33.079 technology. Talked a little 01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:36.520 bit about formalizing the definition of a project John's 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:37.560 definition is very 01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:41.630 accurate I think for us whenever I started we had a number 01:22:41.630 --> 01:22:42.880 of initiatives 01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:44.579 that were defined as projects but I don't know that they 01:22:44.579 --> 01:22:45.199 were necessarily 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:49.310 projects and whenever we do run across those and I'll hit 01:22:49.310 --> 01:22:50.600 on this in the next 01:22:50.600 --> 01:22:52.930 slide is we want to make sure that there's business case 01:22:52.930 --> 01:22:53.800 analysis for each 01:22:53.800 --> 01:22:56.340 of these whether it's a new initiative like landfill mining 01:22:56.340 --> 01:22:57.119 that turns into a 01:22:57.119 --> 01:23:00.279 business unit or if it's something like compressed natural 01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:01.319 gas vehicles that 01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:06.159 there is a defined start in terms of initiation proposal 01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:07.680 validation and then 01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:10.399 project management if that does get the blessing of the PUB 01:23:10.399 --> 01:23:11.840 and council. I think 01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:15.130 a lot of this stuff was to the earlier point being brought 01:23:15.130 --> 01:23:16.079 to PUB and the city 01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:18.880 council one of the things that concerned me a little bit 01:23:18.880 --> 01:23:20.119 about some of that going 01:23:20.119 --> 01:23:22.270 back through it is there wasn't a lot of diversity of 01:23:22.270 --> 01:23:24.039 thought meaning that this 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:28.619 may have been one or two person projects that took it from 01:23:28.619 --> 01:23:30.359 proposal to validation 01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:34.159 to implementation the process that we've talked to Weaver 01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:35.760 about is there needs to 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:39.270 be multiple checkpoints kind of a gatekeeper system if you 01:23:39.270 --> 01:23:40.079 will of this 01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:43.199 does not get past my desk unless it meets certain criteria 01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:44.079 and so by the time 01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:46.819 we bring something to the PUB or the city council we will 01:23:46.819 --> 01:23:47.640 have gone through 01:23:47.640 --> 01:23:50.550 all of those internal controls ourselves to make sure that 01:23:50.550 --> 01:23:51.560 we have a very sound 01:23:51.560 --> 01:23:55.550 product and that what you see is is really a consensus 01:23:55.550 --> 01:23:57.000 effort on our part 01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:00.600 that plays into number seven so I'm not going to repeat 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:02.319 there number eight was to 01:24:02.319 --> 01:24:05.439 establish a project management office the project load that 01:24:05.439 --> 01:24:06.239 we had several 01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:09.789 months ago is very heavy we've scaled that down a great 01:24:09.789 --> 01:24:10.680 deal you've seen a 01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:14.119 couple of those that we brought forward we did have a 01:24:14.119 --> 01:24:15.439 reorganization in August 01:24:15.439 --> 01:24:17.800 that addressed a number of the roles and responsibility 01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:18.760 deficiencies that we 01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:22.329 found namely solid waste was without an administrative 01:24:22.329 --> 01:24:24.159 office a lot of that fell 01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.750 to the operations to do themselves and so you had a lot of 01:24:26.750 --> 01:24:27.640 redundancy a lot 01:24:27.640 --> 01:24:31.279 overlap a lot of confusion so we do have an administration 01:24:31.279 --> 01:24:32.199 office now that we're 01:24:32.199 --> 01:24:35.859 building up we also have a project manager position that we 01:24:35.859 --> 01:24:36.640 created and 01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:39.449 that to that gatekeeper comment a moment ago this this is 01:24:39.449 --> 01:24:40.760 really one of those key 01:24:40.760 --> 01:24:44.560 positions that whenever you have a project that's got a 01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:45.800 sponsor and we want 01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:49.600 to submit it for further consideration this person is one 01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:50.359 of those important 01:24:50.359 --> 01:24:53.210 gatekeepers that says well let me sit down let's do kind of 01:24:53.210 --> 01:24:53.960 a feasibility 01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:56.760 study on this to see if it warrants a further financial 01:24:56.760 --> 01:24:57.640 analysis and so 01:24:57.640 --> 01:25:00.270 there's three or four of these types of positions in our 01:25:00.270 --> 01:25:01.439 office now that we'll 01:25:01.439 --> 01:25:04.939 kind of walk these through whenever a proposal is made same 01:25:04.939 --> 01:25:06.079 thing with the 01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:08.880 condition in which contracts should be utilized I think 01:25:08.880 --> 01:25:10.479 just in general we are 01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:13.930 working with legal and purchasing on a number of these we 01:25:13.930 --> 01:25:15.039 have 50 plus 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.939 contracts within solid waste right now that we've gotten 01:25:17.939 --> 01:25:18.880 our arms around a 01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:21.579 couple of things that we're going to be doing is formal 01:25:21.579 --> 01:25:23.159 izing how that initiation 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:26.960 review much like project management is you're gonna have 01:25:26.960 --> 01:25:28.319 those gatekeepers to 01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:31.829 make sure that this is a passing muster and then that will 01:25:31.829 --> 01:25:33.079 tie into the the city 01:25:33.079 --> 01:25:38.939 process that involves legal and procurement down to PFC 11 01:25:38.939 --> 01:25:39.680 we have 01:25:39.680 --> 01:25:43.119 contract management procedures part of the task for the 01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:44.359 administrative staff is 01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:48.020 creating kind of a contract repository where we always have 01:25:48.020 --> 01:25:49.720 eyes on this that 01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:53.380 would also alert us when a review is due a couple of PFCs 01:25:53.380 --> 01:25:54.800 later on talk about 01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:58.220 vendor performance there's not a consolidated way in solid 01:25:58.220 --> 01:25:58.920 waste right now 01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:01.409 in which we evaluate vendor performance you really have to 01:26:01.409 --> 01:26:02.079 go dig into the 01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:04.239 contract and say what what are they supposed to be doing 01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:05.800 and so we want to 01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:08.539 make sure that we have those out there in a repository that 01:26:08.539 --> 01:26:09.640 that information is 01:26:09.640 --> 01:26:13.380 easy to get to and easy to manage so that addresses 11 and 01:26:13.380 --> 01:26:14.680 12 those are quarter 01:26:14.680 --> 01:26:18.590 two completion dates currently that also goes into the 01:26:18.590 --> 01:26:19.600 vendor performance like I 01:26:19.600 --> 01:26:22.060 mentioned that is something we'll probably need to partner 01:26:22.060 --> 01:26:22.880 with procurement 01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.239 and talk about how does that process work if we have a 01:26:25.239 --> 01:26:26.159 vendor that's not 01:26:26.159 --> 01:26:29.739 complying or maybe they're behind schedule we don't want to 01:26:29.739 --> 01:26:30.359 go rogue and 01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:33.319 go out there and try to enforce contract terms on our own 01:26:33.319 --> 01:26:34.239 we definitely need to 01:26:34.239 --> 01:26:36.979 partner with legal and procurement on that so once we have 01:26:36.979 --> 01:26:37.920 our bearings with 01:26:37.920 --> 01:26:41.359 our contract management we will circle back with them the 01:26:41.359 --> 01:26:42.399 verification of a 01:26:42.399 --> 01:26:45.529 purchase requisition that one was kind of low-hanging fruit 01:26:45.529 --> 01:26:46.359 there was not a 01:26:46.359 --> 01:26:49.529 formal process for how requisitions were requested before 01:26:49.529 --> 01:26:51.000 there were two or three 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.239 people that could open a purchase order we've restricted 01:26:53.239 --> 01:26:54.159 that and centralized 01:26:54.159 --> 01:26:56.750 that to where there's only one or two and there's a 01:26:56.750 --> 01:26:58.119 prescribed way in which 01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:02.359 those are submitted approved verified the whole nine yards 01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:03.760 so that one's 01:27:03.760 --> 01:27:06.659 complete one of the things I will say even on these that 01:27:06.659 --> 01:27:08.079 are complete doesn't 01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:11.560 mean that we're done and we're gonna walk away a lot of 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:13.720 this this is a great 01:27:13.720 --> 01:27:17.439 example is these forms are submitted via email right now I 01:27:17.439 --> 01:27:18.640 'm not a big fan of 01:27:18.640 --> 01:27:21.380 email it doesn't have a great audit trail on it so a lot of 01:27:21.380 --> 01:27:22.279 these we really 01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:26.420 want to try to formalize and standardize and then automate 01:27:26.420 --> 01:27:27.239 how some of these 01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:30.529 processes work that you have not only the audit trail but 01:27:30.529 --> 01:27:31.560 we also have some 01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:34.810 reporting and it gives them the managers and also myself 01:27:34.810 --> 01:27:36.119 with a higher degree of 01:27:36.119 --> 01:27:39.689 visibility and a little bit more accountability as we move 01:27:39.689 --> 01:27:40.520 through in 01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:44.039 terms of reporting with paradigm we are going to be working 01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:44.840 through and 01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:47.920 establishing a routine reporting for both operational 01:27:47.920 --> 01:27:49.239 financial performance 01:27:49.239 --> 01:27:52.680 data we're data driven environment and we have a lot of 01:27:52.680 --> 01:27:53.840 data but not a lot of 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:56.640 information and that's something that is going to be a work 01:27:56.640 --> 01:27:57.600 in progress for us 01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:01.430 over the next 12 to 18 months the budget preparation 01:28:01.430 --> 01:28:02.479 process like John 01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:05.489 highlighted we have corrected that deficiency one of the 01:28:05.489 --> 01:28:06.479 biggest issues we 01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:09.430 had was there was not security locked down on budget 01:28:09.430 --> 01:28:10.680 documents and so some of 01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:13.350 the financial analysts we go into that document say well 01:28:13.350 --> 01:28:14.319 how did that number 01:28:14.319 --> 01:28:17.770 get there and it wasn't anything deviant an operations 01:28:17.770 --> 01:28:18.720 manager was simply 01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:21.399 updating information as they got it they were trying to be 01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:22.640 helpful but it really 01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:24.890 put us in a challenging environment of well if I don't know 01:28:24.890 --> 01:28:25.720 where that number 01:28:25.720 --> 01:28:28.340 came from I can't source it how am I going to defend it and 01:28:28.340 --> 01:28:29.560 so we have locked 01:28:29.560 --> 01:28:32.359 that down there is a formalized process for budget 01:28:32.359 --> 01:28:34.079 preparation that goes through 01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:38.350 17 and 18 as well is there is a strategic budgeting process 01:28:38.350 --> 01:28:38.960 that we are 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:42.800 in the currently in progress right now we're going through 01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:44.199 our CIP budget as we 01:28:44.199 --> 01:28:47.680 speak essentially there's three to four series of meetings 01:28:47.680 --> 01:28:49.000 from myself the 01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:52.000 financial analyst all the operations managers where we 01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:53.159 really go through and 01:28:53.159 --> 01:28:55.979 vet this out and make sure that there's that diversity of 01:28:55.979 --> 01:28:57.039 thought there's 01:28:57.039 --> 01:28:59.670 dialogue and that this isn't something that we're throwing 01:28:59.670 --> 01:29:00.760 together at the last 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:03.779 minute and so I think we are going to have a much better 01:29:03.779 --> 01:29:04.640 product coming 01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:08.079 forward through the budget process moving forward and 01:29:08.079 --> 01:29:09.119 something that we all 01:29:09.119 --> 01:29:14.880 have some buy-in as an input into lastly a couple of things 01:29:14.880 --> 01:29:15.399 here 01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:18.109 utilization monitoring for equipment this is the fixed 01:29:18.109 --> 01:29:19.199 asset finding that we 01:29:19.199 --> 01:29:22.960 were identified is we have a lot of equipment for lack of a 01:29:22.960 --> 01:29:23.800 better term 01:29:23.800 --> 01:29:26.699 we're a transportation department we just don't transport 01:29:26.699 --> 01:29:27.840 people we transport 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:32.680 garbage and recycling so they're much less vocal whenever 01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:34.039 they get in the back 01:29:34.039 --> 01:29:37.819 versus a taxi maybe but in terms of transporting that 01:29:37.819 --> 01:29:39.279 around it's really 01:29:39.279 --> 01:29:41.779 important for us that our vehicles that we manage that 01:29:41.779 --> 01:29:43.279 fleet effectively that we 01:29:43.279 --> 01:29:46.250 keep a close eye on one of our maintenance our repair costs 01:29:46.250 --> 01:29:46.680 when is the 01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:49.250 appropriate time for us to replace vehicles and so we are 01:29:49.250 --> 01:29:49.800 utilizing 01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:53.539 utilization guides and reports to make those decisions now 01:29:53.539 --> 01:29:54.720 we think that that 01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:56.609 will make a big difference in this year's budget and it's 01:29:56.609 --> 01:29:57.199 something that 01:29:57.199 --> 01:30:00.829 we're eager to share with the PUB and the City Council as 01:30:00.829 --> 01:30:02.640 it develops lastly 01:30:02.640 --> 01:30:05.430 talked about the strategic staffing plan and oversight for 01:30:05.430 --> 01:30:06.399 contract labor and 01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:10.729 overtime following the closure of the mining operation we 01:30:10.729 --> 01:30:11.520 did decrease our 01:30:11.520 --> 01:30:15.579 contract labor a great deal we went from about 14 to 15 on 01:30:15.579 --> 01:30:17.279 average contract 01:30:17.279 --> 01:30:20.020 labor per day now we're down to about four one of the 01:30:20.020 --> 01:30:21.279 things that we are going 01:30:21.279 --> 01:30:24.729 to be looking for in the next two to three months is that 01:30:24.729 --> 01:30:25.800 strategic staffing 01:30:25.800 --> 01:30:29.409 evaluation and creating an operational model that we can 01:30:29.409 --> 01:30:30.600 use as managers as 01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:34.140 directors to guide our day-to-day operations it's really 01:30:34.140 --> 01:30:35.079 taking us from 01:30:35.079 --> 01:30:37.979 being in a reactive situation which gets you into that 01:30:37.979 --> 01:30:39.479 contract labor that over 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:42.100 time is I didn't anticipate this happening today I need to 01:30:42.100 --> 01:30:42.479 go find 01:30:42.479 --> 01:30:45.220 workers to get this stuff done we want to be in a more 01:30:45.220 --> 01:30:46.680 proactive situation more 01:30:46.680 --> 01:30:49.130 proactive posture where we say I anticipated that and this 01:30:49.130 --> 01:30:49.680 is how we're 01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:52.760 going to address it so that's really the goal with with it 01:30:52.760 --> 01:30:54.159 and I'm confident that 01:30:54.159 --> 01:30:57.600 as we work through that we will probably see some further 01:30:57.600 --> 01:30:59.159 organizational changes 01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:02.500 moving folks from one operation or maybe one responsibility 01:31:02.500 --> 01:31:04.159 to another and then 01:31:04.159 --> 01:31:06.699 hopefully in turn what we will see is a reduction in 01:31:06.699 --> 01:31:08.039 contract labor as well as 01:31:08.039 --> 01:31:11.520 over time for our staff I know that's a lot of information 01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:12.439 to take in I hit it 01:31:12.439 --> 01:31:16.039 really fast so I'm happy to stand for any questions that 01:31:16.039 --> 01:31:17.960 you might have 01:31:19.119 --> 01:31:29.770 questions you guys been busy yeah you know can you go back 01:31:29.770 --> 01:31:32.640 to the like the 01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:36.880 first slide it was maybe there second slide I'm sorry yeah 01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:39.000 the the business 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:42.439 case analysis obviously I mean that's that's kind of on 01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:43.279 everybody's mind 01:31:43.279 --> 01:31:50.850 given you know we had to make a decision on landfill mining 01:31:50.850 --> 01:31:52.640 and who knows if we'd 01:31:52.640 --> 01:31:55.710 had that before I'm not trying to second-guess anybody but 01:31:55.710 --> 01:31:56.399 as it turned 01:31:56.399 --> 01:32:01.470 out but but I think that's before we you know I don't want 01:32:01.470 --> 01:32:02.560 to kill the 01:32:02.560 --> 01:32:05.979 innovation that we've had at the landfill because I think 01:32:05.979 --> 01:32:06.760 we've done some 01:32:06.760 --> 01:32:11.600 great things there but at the same time I'm glad to see 01:32:11.600 --> 01:32:13.079 having a project 01:32:13.079 --> 01:32:16.500 management office and also the business case analysis that 01:32:16.500 --> 01:32:17.760 's more formal process 01:32:17.760 --> 01:32:22.789 now I'm encouraged by that and having a business case doesn 01:32:22.789 --> 01:32:23.640 't necessarily 01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:29.189 decrease innovation it just correct correct has diversity 01:32:29.189 --> 01:32:30.279 of thought is well 01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:32.829 sometimes a business case analysis might be how much money 01:32:32.829 --> 01:32:33.680 can you make or how 01:32:33.680 --> 01:32:37.520 much money do you expect to lose yeah and put a price on it 01:32:37.520 --> 01:32:38.920 so that's that's 01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:41.430 but you got to know right you got and I think the 01:32:41.430 --> 01:32:43.079 interesting thing to to kind 01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:46.500 of bring staff into this is the CNG the mining both of 01:32:46.500 --> 01:32:47.800 those operations there 01:32:47.800 --> 01:32:52.130 were split opinions within our office even as I got there 01:32:52.130 --> 01:32:53.520 and so I think back 01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:55.819 to the diversity of thought and making sure that you convey 01:32:55.819 --> 01:32:56.560 risk and that you 01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.039 understand it and that you try to put a dollar amount to it 01:32:59.039 --> 01:32:59.600 that's really 01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:03.039 critical and that really flows straight into business case 01:33:03.039 --> 01:33:03.920 analysis is it's our 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:06.550 duty to be innovative but it's also our duty to convey what 01:33:06.550 --> 01:33:07.359 the risk are and 01:33:07.359 --> 01:33:09.539 then allow this board as well as the City Council to make 01:33:09.539 --> 01:33:10.600 those decisions on 01:33:10.600 --> 01:33:14.140 do we want to allocate our funds in that and is the return 01:33:14.140 --> 01:33:15.760 worth it so and this 01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:20.430 is something that you're doing citywide yes and I guess we 01:33:20.430 --> 01:33:22.600 recently also just 01:33:22.600 --> 01:33:25.569 set up and established a chief procurement officer function 01:33:25.569 --> 01:33:25.899 in a 01:33:25.899 --> 01:33:28.689 contract compliance officer function as well one of the 01:33:28.689 --> 01:33:29.760 things well I think 01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:31.899 Ethan's doing a good job getting you know improving the 01:33:31.899 --> 01:33:32.960 process on the front end 01:33:32.960 --> 01:33:35.970 really the back end is where we're having more of the 01:33:35.970 --> 01:33:37.399 issues in terms of you know 01:33:37.399 --> 01:33:40.850 we recently did an inventory and had just under a thousand 01:33:40.850 --> 01:33:41.760 active managed 01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:45.890 actively managed contracts leases that sort of thing within 01:33:45.890 --> 01:33:47.680 the city and my 01:33:47.680 --> 01:33:51.119 concern was is are people assigned to those particular 01:33:51.119 --> 01:33:51.760 contracts are we 01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:55.199 closing them out properly are we enforcing the provision so 01:33:55.199 --> 01:33:55.880 we've got a 01:33:55.880 --> 01:33:58.510 team now that is set up and actually housed in our office 01:33:58.510 --> 01:33:59.359 which is why you 01:33:59.359 --> 01:34:02.880 see the construction that is going to be working with all 01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:03.600 the department 01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:07.279 directors to make sure that the best practices are brought 01:34:07.279 --> 01:34:08.119 to them and that 01:34:08.119 --> 01:34:11.119 we're giving the proper training out to our staffs as well 01:34:11.119 --> 01:34:12.199 so I really applaud 01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:15.649 Ethan and his team for embracing all these recommendations 01:34:15.649 --> 01:34:16.520 moving forward it 01:34:16.520 --> 01:34:20.479 really will help set a template for everyone else 01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:26.399 good very good thank you certainly City Council received 01:34:26.399 --> 01:34:27.359 the same presentation 01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:29.500 next week and then it would be our intention that we circle 01:34:29.500 --> 01:34:30.000 back at some 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:32.199 point in the future let you know how we've progressed 01:34:32.199 --> 01:34:33.199 through the remainder of 01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:37.199 the recommendations we haven't implemented yet it's good 01:34:37.199 --> 01:34:38.119 thank you very 01:34:38.119 --> 01:34:52.829 much thank you okay now let's since we we went over item B 01:34:52.829 --> 01:34:53.680 so let's let's go 01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:58.109 back to item B which is to receive a report hold discussion 01:34:58.109 --> 01:34:59.319 and give staff 01:34:59.319 --> 01:35:02.430 direction regarding the credit and collection policy of the 01:35:02.430 --> 01:35:03.159 city utility 01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:12.430 system good morning I'm Tiffany Thompson the customer 01:35:12.430 --> 01:35:13.800 service manager and coming 01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:16.539 back with a follow-up presentation in regards to credit and 01:35:16.539 --> 01:35:17.720 collections so a 01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:20.409 little bit of background in November of 2010 we did approve 01:35:20.409 --> 01:35:21.199 an ordinance that 01:35:21.199 --> 01:35:24.359 changed our credit and collection policies this was due to 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:25.119 the high debt 01:35:25.119 --> 01:35:28.760 that we had we had about 1.4 million and I wait and no nine 01:35:28.760 --> 01:35:30.000 and that was due to 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:33.439 an affectionate ineffective credit collection policy 01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:34.039 specifically with 01:35:34.039 --> 01:35:37.989 credit scoring deposits and fees and so after the last 01:35:37.989 --> 01:35:39.520 couple years we've seen 01:35:39.520 --> 01:35:43.659 a reduction in our uncollectible debt for 1516 it went down 01:35:43.659 --> 01:35:44.439 to five hundred and 01:35:44.439 --> 01:35:47.239 thirty six thousand dollars in our overall delinquent 01:35:47.239 --> 01:35:48.039 accounts has 01:35:48.039 --> 01:35:51.630 decreased by 34 percent since that time and so last month 01:35:51.630 --> 01:35:52.760 we came before the 01:35:52.760 --> 01:35:56.050 board and City Council to let you know about the progress 01:35:56.050 --> 01:35:57.199 of that and so today 01:35:57.199 --> 01:35:58.979 we're just going to follow up on a couple of items from 01:35:58.979 --> 01:35:59.720 that presentation 01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:03.170 and then get direction from you and council tomorrow so the 01:36:03.170 --> 01:36:04.520 focus areas for 01:36:04.520 --> 01:36:07.260 this morning is to talk about the meter and billing cycles 01:36:07.260 --> 01:36:08.260 some of the survey 01:36:08.260 --> 01:36:11.409 comparisons that we did how we do fair and credit fair 01:36:11.409 --> 01:36:12.840 credit scoring our 01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:15.829 overview of our fees and how we're going to review deposit 01:36:15.829 --> 01:36:16.920 options and what we 01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:19.420 may want to do with those if we have any changes and then 01:36:19.420 --> 01:36:20.640 additional funding to 01:36:20.640 --> 01:36:24.180 the plus one program so first on the meter and billing 01:36:24.180 --> 01:36:25.479 cycles didn't municipal 01:36:25.479 --> 01:36:28.250 electric does utilize two different type of AMI meters you 01:36:28.250 --> 01:36:29.119 have the AMI meter 01:36:29.119 --> 01:36:33.520 that has remote reads and two-way disconnections 47% of the 01:36:33.520 --> 01:36:33.800 meters 01:36:33.800 --> 01:36:38.000 deployed right now are the AMI meters 53% are the AMI 01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:39.880 disconnect meters which 01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:42.979 allows for the two-way communication in addition to being 01:36:42.979 --> 01:36:44.079 able to connect and 01:36:44.079 --> 01:36:47.520 reconnect remotely or disconnect pardon me and reconnect 01:36:47.520 --> 01:36:50.119 remotely and so in 01:36:50.119 --> 01:36:53.560 addition to that whenever they go out to read the meters 01:36:53.560 --> 01:36:54.920 the water meters are 01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:57.739 physically read and so we do have the capability to do 01:36:57.739 --> 01:36:59.039 remotely with electric 01:36:59.039 --> 01:37:02.489 but again just the water is physically read out in the 01:37:02.489 --> 01:37:04.079 field so we do have our 01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:08.409 cycles build out into 21 different cycles so we can go out 01:37:08.409 --> 01:37:09.239 to the different 01:37:09.239 --> 01:37:13.319 places in the city everyone's has a specific cycle assigned 01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:14.000 to them so they 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:16.399 can go out and read that meter and then we build it 01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:18.640 accordingly and we have it 01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:21.609 distributed out that way so we can be able to handle the 01:37:21.609 --> 01:37:22.680 workload and also 01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:25.920 with the customers calling in to us we can actually kind of 01:37:25.920 --> 01:37:26.800 spread that out 01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:30.239 throughout the month versus the first or 15th due date or 01:37:30.239 --> 01:37:31.079 payment arrangement 01:37:31.079 --> 01:37:34.600 date with that and then we also have a greater flexibility 01:37:34.600 --> 01:37:35.600 now with our 01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:39.060 payments we implemented a new payment portal this last 01:37:39.060 --> 01:37:39.960 summer that allows 01:37:39.960 --> 01:37:42.390 customers to go in and schedule their payments if they do 01:37:42.390 --> 01:37:43.239 have that need for 01:37:43.239 --> 01:37:46.390 the first of the 15th they're able to do that and also 01:37:46.390 --> 01:37:47.479 setting up reoccurring 01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:50.470 payments we have a budget billing and so we have a 01:37:50.470 --> 01:37:52.920 different additional payment 01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:56.090 methods to give our customers greater flexibility now and 01:37:56.090 --> 01:37:57.199 then if we did 01:37:57.199 --> 01:38:00.619 change to a first or 15th due date or payment arrangement 01:38:00.619 --> 01:38:01.640 cycle that actually 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:05.449 would influence the number of accounts that would go into a 01:38:05.449 --> 01:38:06.560 past due status 01:38:06.560 --> 01:38:09.029 just because you wouldn't be able to disconnect them on a 01:38:09.029 --> 01:38:09.760 regular basis 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:12.779 because we do disconnects about three times a week right 01:38:12.779 --> 01:38:13.760 now and so having 01:38:13.760 --> 01:38:17.199 that set first or 15th would create a lot of manual 01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:18.520 processes and some 01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:21.109 customers would actually actually experience about three 01:38:21.109 --> 01:38:21.760 bills on their 01:38:21.760 --> 01:38:25.359 account and so that is just a little bit of information on 01:38:25.359 --> 01:38:26.439 why we bill how we 01:38:26.439 --> 01:38:30.880 bill and why we spread it out into multiple cycles 01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:31.960 throughout this 01:38:31.960 --> 01:38:34.579 presentation we did survey comparisons with eight 01:38:34.579 --> 01:38:36.039 comparable cities to us and 01:38:36.039 --> 01:38:38.350 so you're just going to see some of that data throughout 01:38:38.350 --> 01:38:39.199 this I just wanted to 01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:42.770 illustrate the cities that we did get information from and 01:38:42.770 --> 01:38:43.880 it's also included 01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:47.600 in the backup so in regards to compliance and credit 01:38:47.600 --> 01:38:48.359 scoring the city 01:38:48.359 --> 01:38:51.390 does utilize online utility exchange to make sure that we 01:38:51.390 --> 01:38:52.479 are compliant we do 01:38:52.479 --> 01:38:54.930 have to be red flag compliant meaning when a customer comes 01:38:54.930 --> 01:38:55.640 into the utility 01:38:55.640 --> 01:38:59.159 system we have to identify verify their social security 01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:01.079 number and their IDs in 01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:04.649 order to make sure that we're mitigating any type of fraud 01:39:04.649 --> 01:39:06.359 or identity theft with 01:39:06.359 --> 01:39:09.829 that in addition what we glean from that is an assessment 01:39:09.829 --> 01:39:10.680 of the customer's 01:39:10.680 --> 01:39:13.840 credit that's coming into our system and so we're able to 01:39:13.840 --> 01:39:14.880 deem do we need to 01:39:14.880 --> 01:39:17.680 charge them a deposit is it waived what deposit would be 01:39:17.680 --> 01:39:18.560 appropriate for that 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:21.630 customer coming in and how that is assessed is through a 01:39:21.630 --> 01:39:22.800 vantage score and 01:39:22.800 --> 01:39:25.699 advantage score is different than a FACA score the vantage 01:39:25.699 --> 01:39:27.039 score does have data 01:39:27.039 --> 01:39:30.979 from all three credit agencies Equifax TransUnion and Exper 01:39:30.979 --> 01:39:32.119 ian and the 01:39:32.119 --> 01:39:35.300 vantage score is different from the FACA score because it 01:39:35.300 --> 01:39:36.800 is soft credit pool on 01:39:36.800 --> 01:39:39.149 that customer's report so that means that the customer does 01:39:39.149 --> 01:39:39.479 not get 01:39:39.479 --> 01:39:43.100 adversely affected by having us pull it that way and it's 01:39:43.100 --> 01:39:44.279 also much more cost 01:39:44.279 --> 01:39:47.050 effective if we were to pull it based off of a FACA score 01:39:47.050 --> 01:39:48.119 it would cost about 01:39:48.119 --> 01:39:51.560 ten dollars to do that and it would be a hard credit pull 01:39:51.560 --> 01:39:52.640 on their credit so this 01:39:52.640 --> 01:39:55.810 is why we utilize the vantage score and for any customers 01:39:55.810 --> 01:39:57.319 that we do assess a 01:39:57.319 --> 01:39:59.760 deposit to they're providing an adverse letter that lets 01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:01.239 them know the score the 01:40:01.239 --> 01:40:03.689 contributing factors to that score and how they can get 01:40:03.689 --> 01:40:04.880 additional information 01:40:04.880 --> 01:40:08.579 so for the cities that we surveyed 33% of the cities do 01:40:08.579 --> 01:40:09.960 have a credit 01:40:09.960 --> 01:40:12.510 scoring module like the one that we use and do offer 01:40:12.510 --> 01:40:13.619 ability to waive the 01:40:13.619 --> 01:40:17.130 deposits 45% do not use a credit scoring and have one 01:40:17.130 --> 01:40:18.560 option to waive the deposit 01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:21.560 and 22% of the cities do not have the credit scoring but 01:40:21.560 --> 01:40:22.520 they charge you a 01:40:22.520 --> 01:40:25.420 mandatory deposit meaning regardless of your credit history 01:40:25.420 --> 01:40:26.239 you would still be 01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:30.829 charged a deposit and I wanted to note that and whenever we 01:40:30.829 --> 01:40:32.359 expand the sample 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:35.810 of cities that we benchmark it actually was much higher 01:40:35.810 --> 01:40:37.520 almost 64% use a credit 01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:40.340 scoring module but for the purpose of this presentation we 01:40:40.340 --> 01:40:41.239 kept it to the 8 01:40:41.239 --> 01:40:44.119 but I thought that was worthy to note and then also the 01:40:44.119 --> 01:40:45.439 city of Denton offers 01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:47.939 the most amount of options to be able to waive a deposit 01:40:47.939 --> 01:40:49.239 out of the surveyed city 01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:52.289 we had the letter of credit, co-signer form and also if you 01:40:52.289 --> 01:40:53.239 set up reoccurring 01:40:53.239 --> 01:40:55.829 draft with a credit or checking account will waive the 01:40:55.829 --> 01:40:57.020 deposit so we have three 01:40:57.020 --> 01:41:03.710 options where most only have one. So in regards to fees 01:41:03.710 --> 01:41:05.039 what we have found 01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:08.180 through the survey is the fee structure is highly variable 01:41:08.180 --> 01:41:09.479 and depending on the 01:41:09.479 --> 01:41:12.250 city with this and so what we found is we were right there 01:41:12.250 --> 01:41:13.159 in the middle in 01:41:13.159 --> 01:41:17.149 regards to some of our fees compared to the other cities 01:41:17.149 --> 01:41:18.859 and 86% of our customer 01:41:18.859 --> 01:41:22.340 base pays on time on a consistent basis and again since 01:41:22.340 --> 01:41:23.880 2010 with the 01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:26.130 implementation of our credit collection policies we've 01:41:26.130 --> 01:41:27.039 reduced the number of 01:41:27.039 --> 01:41:33.189 delinquent accounts by 34% with that and so deposit usage 01:41:33.189 --> 01:41:34.039 we wanted to discuss 01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:37.590 the ways that we utilize our deposits we have 21% of our 01:41:37.590 --> 01:41:38.800 customer base has 01:41:38.800 --> 01:41:41.689 security deposits on the account the reason why we seek 01:41:41.689 --> 01:41:42.720 deposits is we are 01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.619 in a post-paid environment and so at the time of disconnect 01:41:45.619 --> 01:41:46.720 ion or when you turn 01:41:46.720 --> 01:41:49.079 off services you could have upwards of two and a half 01:41:49.079 --> 01:41:50.279 months worth of usage on 01:41:50.279 --> 01:41:53.420 your account and the highest deposit that we're requesting 01:41:53.420 --> 01:41:54.039 is up to two 01:41:54.039 --> 01:41:57.800 months with that and so 44% of the cities that we surveyed 01:41:57.800 --> 01:41:58.439 do have that 01:41:58.439 --> 01:42:01.399 average two month deposit like we do and we're also seeing 01:42:01.399 --> 01:42:02.319 an increase in 01:42:02.319 --> 01:42:05.760 customers leaving the utility system without contacting us 01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:06.319 formally to let 01:42:06.319 --> 01:42:08.300 them know to let us know that they're disconnecting 01:42:08.300 --> 01:42:09.319 services so they're just 01:42:09.319 --> 01:42:12.760 letting it turn off and we're not getting a reconnection 01:42:12.760 --> 01:42:13.920 from them and so 01:42:13.920 --> 01:42:17.420 that increased last fiscal year by 9% so we think that that 01:42:17.420 --> 01:42:18.640 's even more 01:42:18.640 --> 01:42:20.819 important while we want to make sure we have proper 01:42:20.819 --> 01:42:22.000 security deposits on the 01:42:22.000 --> 01:42:25.569 account with that increased trend and so how we used the 01:42:25.569 --> 01:42:26.859 deposit usage for 01:42:26.859 --> 01:42:32.600 fiscal year 16-17 56-69 final accounts held deposits 54% of 01:42:32.600 --> 01:42:33.079 them had their 01:42:33.079 --> 01:42:36.079 entire balance paid with that deposit which meant that they 01:42:36.079 --> 01:42:36.960 were able to move 01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:39.460 out and have additional funds to be able to connect 01:42:39.460 --> 01:42:40.840 services wherever they're 01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:45.170 going and then 46% of them still had an amount owing after 01:42:45.170 --> 01:42:46.880 that deposit and we 01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:50.300 don't know the final impact of on that for uncollectible 01:42:50.300 --> 01:42:51.000 debt because we don't 01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:54.779 deem debt uncollectible until 180 days but we do have data 01:42:54.779 --> 01:42:56.399 for 15 and 16 and out 01:42:56.399 --> 01:42:59.920 of the 5,500 accounts 53% of the deposits paid off the 01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:02.000 final bill 47% of them 01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:06.390 still had an amount owing and after that 23% overall ended 01:43:06.390 --> 01:43:07.560 up leaving a debt that 01:43:07.560 --> 01:43:10.810 turned into uncollectible debt so on average about 25% of 01:43:10.810 --> 01:43:12.800 the total is or 23% 01:43:12.800 --> 01:43:15.680 in that case is still even with the deposit refunding to 01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:16.739 the balance they're 01:43:16.739 --> 01:43:20.250 still leaving a debt on the account and for the two fiscal 01:43:20.250 --> 01:43:21.560 years prior to that 01:43:21.560 --> 01:43:26.029 it's it's about the same it's about 25% so we're seeing 01:43:26.029 --> 01:43:27.039 that's a consistent 01:43:27.039 --> 01:43:32.510 trend with who leaves ultimately results in uncollectible 01:43:32.510 --> 01:43:33.479 debt with the deposit 01:43:33.479 --> 01:43:37.609 refunding for the plus one program this is the prevent loss 01:43:37.609 --> 01:43:39.119 of utility services 01:43:39.119 --> 01:43:43.159 for fiscal year 16 17 we assisted 231 families for a total 01:43:43.159 --> 01:43:44.680 of about $80,000 01:43:44.680 --> 01:43:47.770 the contract with interfaith ministries is expiring next 01:43:47.770 --> 01:43:48.760 month we have a six 01:43:48.760 --> 01:43:52.600 month extension that we've already signed off on so we can 01:43:52.600 --> 01:43:53.760 incorporate data 01:43:53.760 --> 01:43:57.210 or pardon me a feedback from pub and council and those 01:43:57.210 --> 01:43:58.119 specifications that 01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:00.859 we're gonna write six out of the eight cities that we 01:44:00.859 --> 01:44:02.239 survey do have a program 01:44:02.239 --> 01:44:04.739 like the one that we have here at the city and so some of 01:44:04.739 --> 01:44:05.720 the things that we 01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:08.229 want to talk about and get direction from you and council 01:44:08.229 --> 01:44:09.600 tomorrow with a 01:44:09.600 --> 01:44:13.050 again we're trying to create the specs for that contract 01:44:13.050 --> 01:44:14.239 now so we can get that 01:44:14.239 --> 01:44:17.960 out to a competitive process and so one of the things we'd 01:44:17.960 --> 01:44:19.039 like to have you 01:44:19.039 --> 01:44:23.109 consider is do you want utility plus one funds going to 01:44:23.109 --> 01:44:25.199 utility deposits right 01:44:25.199 --> 01:44:28.390 now if someone seeks assistance deposits is not in scope 01:44:28.390 --> 01:44:29.659 for that and so it can 01:44:29.659 --> 01:44:32.630 only go towards balances so there's an opportunity if you 01:44:32.630 --> 01:44:33.640 wanted funds to be 01:44:33.640 --> 01:44:35.720 able to assist with customers deposits we have an 01:44:35.720 --> 01:44:37.000 opportunity to incorporate 01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:40.449 that into the contract now and then also establishing a 01:44:40.449 --> 01:44:41.880 requirement that the the 01:44:41.880 --> 01:44:44.850 vendor the new vendor or incumbent established written 01:44:44.850 --> 01:44:45.800 program guidelines 01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:48.380 that the city would review on a yearly basis and so this 01:44:48.380 --> 01:44:49.279 would allow us an 01:44:49.279 --> 01:44:51.720 opportunity to understand what's going on in the community 01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:52.920 then it may be not 01:44:52.920 --> 01:44:56.380 three years out when the contracts up for service or for it 01:44:56.380 --> 01:44:58.159 to go back out for 01:44:58.159 --> 01:45:01.800 competitive process and then what we also found is that we 01:45:01.800 --> 01:45:02.880 think we need to 01:45:02.880 --> 01:45:06.779 get richer data as far as monthly results from interfaith 01:45:06.779 --> 01:45:07.680 ministries 01:45:07.680 --> 01:45:10.800 currently and whoever the new vendor may be just so we can 01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:11.720 know what are the 01:45:11.720 --> 01:45:14.220 barriers that our customers are experiencing and is there a 01:45:14.220 --> 01:45:14.640 way for us 01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:18.090 to help them so we'd like to incorporate richer data on the 01:45:18.090 --> 01:45:19.319 monthly reporting and 01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:22.989 then training not only for city staff but for the vendor to 01:45:22.989 --> 01:45:23.840 make sure that 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:26.439 they understand what type of authority they have in 01:45:26.439 --> 01:45:27.920 qualifying assistance for 01:45:27.920 --> 01:45:31.239 the customer and then we talked about last time we do have 01:45:31.239 --> 01:45:32.479 a six month tenure 01:45:32.479 --> 01:45:36.020 criteria in the current contract and so we think that we 01:45:36.020 --> 01:45:37.399 could change that to 01:45:37.399 --> 01:45:40.189 say that you could assist the family regardless of the 01:45:40.189 --> 01:45:41.439 tenure at the address 01:45:41.439 --> 01:45:44.890 and then assisting families more than once in a 12 month 01:45:44.890 --> 01:45:46.359 period right now you 01:45:46.359 --> 01:45:49.100 get assistance once and then you can't get assistance for 01:45:49.100 --> 01:45:50.560 until the next year 01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:54.340 depending on the circumstance and this was a 50% of the 01:45:54.340 --> 01:45:55.760 reason why customers 01:45:55.760 --> 01:45:58.560 were denied assistance was because they needed assistance 01:45:58.560 --> 01:45:59.720 again so we think this 01:45:59.720 --> 01:46:02.600 is an opportunity to put into the criteria where what is 01:46:02.600 --> 01:46:03.560 the appropriate 01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:06.119 amount I put up to three times but that's definitely open 01:46:06.119 --> 01:46:06.880 for discussion 01:46:06.880 --> 01:46:11.779 today and tomorrow and so after last month's discussion it 01:46:11.779 --> 01:46:12.640 was brought up if 01:46:12.640 --> 01:46:15.310 we did want to change something with the deposit process 01:46:15.310 --> 01:46:16.600 what would that be and 01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:19.770 what options are there and so just as a reminder the way we 01:46:19.770 --> 01:46:20.880 charge deposit is 01:46:20.880 --> 01:46:24.000 based off of credit scoring we'll run the credit to see if 01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:25.079 you need a deposit 01:46:25.079 --> 01:46:28.699 if you don't deposits waived if it's fair it's a one month 01:46:28.699 --> 01:46:29.560 deposit and then if 01:46:29.560 --> 01:46:32.529 it's a risk factor then we're going to charge up to a two 01:46:32.529 --> 01:46:33.760 month deposit on the 01:46:33.760 --> 01:46:36.659 account and so some options for new and existing customers 01:46:36.659 --> 01:46:38.039 for residential that 01:46:38.039 --> 01:46:40.729 we have is we would maintain that credit scoring and if you 01:46:40.729 --> 01:46:41.479 're good credit 01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:44.279 scoring we wouldn't charge a deposit so the option number 01:46:44.279 --> 01:46:45.319 one is only charge a 01:46:45.319 --> 01:46:49.010 deposit for that one month of utility usage as opposed to 01:46:49.010 --> 01:46:50.159 if they need to have 01:46:50.159 --> 01:46:52.899 two we would change to where it would only be one and as 01:46:52.899 --> 01:46:53.720 the customer 01:46:53.720 --> 01:46:56.430 establishes their tenure and their payment behavior or if 01:46:56.430 --> 01:46:56.880 they got 01:46:56.880 --> 01:46:59.510 disconnected for non-payment then we would seek the 01:46:59.510 --> 01:47:00.640 additional one month 01:47:00.640 --> 01:47:03.550 deposit to get them up to two months on the account the 01:47:03.550 --> 01:47:05.279 second option that we 01:47:05.279 --> 01:47:08.180 can do is charge a deposit again only a one month deposit 01:47:08.180 --> 01:47:09.319 when they come into 01:47:09.319 --> 01:47:12.399 the utility system and then based upon their payment 01:47:12.399 --> 01:47:13.399 behavior or if they're 01:47:13.399 --> 01:47:16.819 disconnected for non-payment increase their deposit by $50 01:47:16.819 --> 01:47:17.960 increments with 01:47:17.960 --> 01:47:21.369 that until they get up to that two month average on there 01:47:21.369 --> 01:47:22.399 and then option number 01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:25.239 three would to be only secure a one month deposit no 01:47:25.239 --> 01:47:26.680 additional increases and 01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:28.939 then option number four you know is going to put it in 01:47:28.939 --> 01:47:29.800 there right no 01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:33.439 changes to the deposit process and we could continue to do 01:47:33.439 --> 01:47:34.479 payment arrangements 01:47:34.479 --> 01:47:37.770 like we do now but that's definitely an option that we can 01:47:37.770 --> 01:47:39.279 vet out with that so 01:47:39.279 --> 01:47:42.729 at the end of this we're going to open that up for 01:47:42.729 --> 01:47:45.279 discussion we could 01:47:45.279 --> 01:47:48.050 collaborate it with community development because as we're 01:47:48.050 --> 01:47:48.479 talking 01:47:48.479 --> 01:47:51.199 about the deposits we thought that this was a very timely 01:47:51.199 --> 01:47:52.000 conversation 01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:54.600 especially with the recent emergency solutions grant that 01:47:54.600 --> 01:47:55.439 just went through 01:47:55.439 --> 01:47:59.380 is what other people can we assist specifically with a 01:47:59.380 --> 01:48:00.779 deposit waiver we 01:48:00.779 --> 01:48:04.770 do have in ordinance now that victims of family violence 01:48:04.770 --> 01:48:05.800 that are working with 01:48:05.800 --> 01:48:08.239 friends of the family have a deposit wage and so they 01:48:08.239 --> 01:48:09.119 provide us a form 01:48:09.119 --> 01:48:11.649 letter if they're going through that scenario we do not 01:48:11.649 --> 01:48:12.319 charge them a 01:48:12.319 --> 01:48:15.289 deposit and so we think this is another opportunity that we 01:48:15.289 --> 01:48:16.600 can incorporate this 01:48:16.600 --> 01:48:19.619 into city ordinance if someone who is working with the help 01:48:19.619 --> 01:48:20.720 agency and they're 01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:24.329 being going through either that rapid rehoming process or 01:48:24.329 --> 01:48:25.359 any of the agencies 01:48:25.359 --> 01:48:27.979 that's helping with homelessness they can provide us a form 01:48:27.979 --> 01:48:28.760 like they do for 01:48:28.760 --> 01:48:31.699 the victim family violence and we can waive that deposit so 01:48:31.699 --> 01:48:32.439 again we think 01:48:32.439 --> 01:48:36.350 this is a timely conversation while we're looking at the 01:48:36.350 --> 01:48:38.119 deposits and so 01:48:38.119 --> 01:48:40.819 with that and the discussion today and direction that we're 01:48:40.819 --> 01:48:41.640 seeking is on the 01:48:41.640 --> 01:48:45.090 plus one program and for the deposits so for plus one do we 01:48:45.090 --> 01:48:46.319 want to increase the 01:48:46.319 --> 01:48:48.630 funds to that for next year specifically because we're 01:48:48.630 --> 01:48:49.880 going through the contract 01:48:49.880 --> 01:48:53.859 competitive bid and then also do we want to allow funds to 01:48:53.859 --> 01:48:55.359 go to the deposits and 01:48:55.359 --> 01:48:58.680 staff obviously had recommended some of these criteria but 01:48:58.680 --> 01:49:00.079 we're definitely open 01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:02.699 if there's additional criteria that the PUB and council 01:49:02.699 --> 01:49:03.760 wants to incorporate 01:49:03.760 --> 01:49:06.659 into that we want to start working on those specifications 01:49:06.659 --> 01:49:07.640 so we can get that 01:49:07.640 --> 01:49:11.060 contract going as soon as possible and then for deposits do 01:49:11.060 --> 01:49:11.640 you want to 01:49:11.640 --> 01:49:15.090 incorporate a deposit for people experiencing homelessness 01:49:15.090 --> 01:49:16.039 and if you do 01:49:16.039 --> 01:49:19.279 want to make any changes to the deposit process what option 01:49:19.279 --> 01:49:20.239 would you like to 01:49:20.239 --> 01:49:24.470 select and with that I'll open it up to any questions and 01:49:24.470 --> 01:49:25.800 direction questions 01:49:25.800 --> 01:49:30.859 yes last time we talked about this I said aren't there any 01:49:30.859 --> 01:49:32.520 agencies that also 01:49:32.520 --> 01:49:36.979 help with this and I noticed in the paper the Denton paper 01:49:36.979 --> 01:49:37.920 the Texoma 01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:41.520 Council of Government's energy services program also 01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:43.319 provides funds do we work 01:49:43.319 --> 01:49:47.180 with them we don't work with them directly but we have like 01:49:47.180 --> 01:49:48.399 a list in 01:49:48.399 --> 01:49:51.140 addition to plus one where our customers are reaching out 01:49:51.140 --> 01:49:51.640 to us they're 01:49:51.640 --> 01:49:54.800 struggling we have a list that they will provide them they 01:49:54.800 --> 01:49:55.720 are on that list and 01:49:55.720 --> 01:49:59.800 in my previous perfect presentation we did have almost 1200 01:49:59.800 --> 01:50:00.439 customers were 01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:03.890 being assisted through those various agencies with Texoma 01:50:03.890 --> 01:50:04.560 Council of 01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:08.010 Governments being one of them and last fiscal year they 01:50:08.010 --> 01:50:09.159 gave or assisted our 01:50:09.159 --> 01:50:13.489 customers with about $135,000 worth of payments on there so 01:50:13.489 --> 01:50:14.439 yeah we discussed 01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:17.239 that last time with it but I'm glad you brought it so yes 01:50:17.239 --> 01:50:18.319 we do make our 01:50:18.319 --> 01:50:21.479 customers aware the additional resources that they have out 01:50:21.479 --> 01:50:23.600 there for them is 01:50:23.600 --> 01:50:31.439 that is that applying deposits or I know plus one is we're 01:50:31.439 --> 01:50:32.439 talking about really 01:50:32.439 --> 01:50:34.920 applied to deposit not but there's a Texas Council of 01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:35.920 Governments that 01:50:35.920 --> 01:50:40.840 assistant them or balances I'm not sure how it works here 01:50:40.840 --> 01:50:42.000 in Minnesota it was it 01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:45.439 had to be electric only really deposits it couldn't be 01:50:45.439 --> 01:50:46.359 water and most of them 01:50:46.359 --> 01:50:49.210 are definitely balances but you know it's an opportunity if 01:50:49.210 --> 01:50:50.079 we're allocating 01:50:50.079 --> 01:50:53.489 funds we can deem how we want those allocated so I think it 01:50:53.489 --> 01:50:54.159 's it's a good 01:50:54.159 --> 01:50:58.319 conversation to have yeah okay but there are programs out 01:50:58.319 --> 01:50:59.239 there in addition to 01:50:59.239 --> 01:51:04.479 what we're doing to help you some you mentioned that was at 01:51:04.479 --> 01:51:05.239 eighty thousand 01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:10.109 and change or something that we the plus one program was 01:51:10.109 --> 01:51:11.840 that yes for this year 01:51:11.840 --> 01:51:15.590 it was a little over 80,000 we allocate about 86,000 to 01:51:15.590 --> 01:51:16.840 them every year for it's 01:51:16.840 --> 01:51:19.470 a hundred thousand fourteen thousand goes for admin costs 01:51:19.470 --> 01:51:21.119 for the vendor to 01:51:21.119 --> 01:51:24.560 administer it and then they distribute eighty six thousand 01:51:24.560 --> 01:51:25.399 dollars they have 01:51:25.399 --> 01:51:27.699 those funds and so you can see they're not even using all 01:51:27.699 --> 01:51:28.560 of those funds right 01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:31.279 now we don't tell anybody no then I guess I'm sorry we didn 01:51:31.279 --> 01:51:31.720 't tell anybody 01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:34.819 no we did tell quite a bit of people as people know and we 01:51:34.819 --> 01:51:35.920 talked about this 01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:38.430 last time some of the reasons why fifty percent of the 01:51:38.430 --> 01:51:39.479 reasons why they're 01:51:39.479 --> 01:51:42.930 getting decon is they need assistance more than once with 01:51:42.930 --> 01:51:44.439 that and then the 01:51:44.439 --> 01:51:47.890 other fifty percent is the documentation wasn't filled out 01:51:47.890 --> 01:51:48.560 the 01:51:48.560 --> 01:51:52.140 applicant didn't show up for the appointment or they didn't 01:51:52.140 --> 01:51:52.479 need 01:51:52.479 --> 01:51:55.380 assistance any longer but I think it goes back to that 01:51:55.380 --> 01:51:56.560 point of getting that 01:51:56.560 --> 01:52:00.250 bit that richer data to get a better understanding so we 01:52:00.250 --> 01:52:01.560 know how we can 01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:09.800 address those needs with that so do we know if we were to 01:52:09.800 --> 01:52:10.840 increase it to up to 01:52:10.840 --> 01:52:14.640 three times a year would we need more funds or do you think 01:52:14.640 --> 01:52:15.600 we would just use 01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:19.319 the funds that we were already allocating do we I don't 01:52:19.319 --> 01:52:20.600 know the exact 01:52:20.600 --> 01:52:23.229 answers to that question I think we're going to need to my 01:52:23.229 --> 01:52:24.279 recommendation is 01:52:24.279 --> 01:52:27.079 changing the criteria to make it to where we can assist 01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:28.159 more customers and 01:52:28.159 --> 01:52:31.119 seeing what the impact is of that I think that we would 01:52:31.119 --> 01:52:32.760 definitely utilize 01:52:32.760 --> 01:52:35.409 this especially if you incorporated deposits in there and 01:52:35.409 --> 01:52:36.159 then you remove 01:52:36.159 --> 01:52:38.930 that more than once in a 12 month period I do think you're 01:52:38.930 --> 01:52:40.199 going to see a greater 01:52:40.199 --> 01:52:43.210 need for that but without having that in place it's hard to 01:52:43.210 --> 01:52:44.800 determine I wouldn't 01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:47.039 feel comfortable telling you yes they need this and I did 01:52:47.039 --> 01:52:47.600 have a conversation 01:52:47.600 --> 01:52:50.560 with interfaith ministries and they had suggested maybe 01:52:50.560 --> 01:52:51.840 doing an increase of 01:52:51.840 --> 01:52:55.920 $25,000 in addition to the criteria changes and then seeing 01:52:55.920 --> 01:52:56.720 how that goes 01:52:56.720 --> 01:53:00.180 with that but again it's your discretion that was gonna be 01:53:00.180 --> 01:53:01.079 my next question is 01:53:01.079 --> 01:53:06.039 can we amend it later we could put that in the contract so 01:53:06.039 --> 01:53:07.960 that would be make 01:53:07.960 --> 01:53:10.779 sure I'm saying that right I'm looking at legal I don't be 01:53:10.779 --> 01:53:11.159 like yeah we can do 01:53:11.159 --> 01:53:14.930 it you're like no you can't with that so I think we could 01:53:14.930 --> 01:53:17.479 put that in the contract what I'm trying to get is I think 01:53:17.479 --> 01:53:21.920 your deposit process is probably one of the better ones and 01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:24.159 I would rather keep 01:53:24.159 --> 01:53:30.550 good credit policy in place and provide assistance in the 01:53:30.550 --> 01:53:32.720 limited periods where 01:53:32.720 --> 01:53:35.170 it's going to be needed and I don't even have a problem 01:53:35.170 --> 01:53:36.439 with it going towards the 01:53:36.439 --> 01:53:40.920 deposit if they meet the criteria and they need the help 01:53:40.920 --> 01:53:42.439 but I don't want to 01:53:42.439 --> 01:53:49.770 get away from sound policy. I have a question. I'm sorry 01:53:49.770 --> 01:53:53.720 there's probably gonna be an amount of 01:53:53.720 --> 01:53:56.510 situations where that deposit goes to just pay the last 01:53:56.510 --> 01:53:57.640 couple of months of 01:53:57.640 --> 01:54:01.079 their utility bill right like we saw it was pretty 01:54:01.079 --> 01:54:02.439 expensive so if they can't 01:54:02.439 --> 01:54:05.880 having trouble affording it already they might just so that 01:54:05.880 --> 01:54:07.319 deposit might actually 01:54:07.319 --> 01:54:12.189 end up just paying for electric rates. Yeah exactly. So 01:54:12.189 --> 01:54:13.640 just in a different way. 01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:22.000 What is the source of whatever funding of that money? We do 01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:23.520 have a customer 01:54:23.520 --> 01:54:26.670 contributions that give I think it's about eight thousand 01:54:26.670 --> 01:54:28.399 dollars a year that 01:54:28.399 --> 01:54:31.090 our customers make donations to the plus one program and 01:54:31.090 --> 01:54:32.319 then the rest of it is 01:54:32.319 --> 01:54:36.119 funded through the city through we do an allocation to the 01:54:36.119 --> 01:54:37.640 utilities so that's 01:54:37.640 --> 01:54:41.119 how it ultimately comes back out so there is a the rate 01:54:41.119 --> 01:54:42.800 carrier is subsidizing 01:54:42.800 --> 01:54:46.680 the additional that customers aren't donating. And so what 01:54:46.680 --> 01:54:48.039 is the source from 01:54:48.039 --> 01:54:55.470 the city? The source from the city. Our rates. So it 01:54:55.470 --> 01:54:57.159 affects our rate structure. Yes. 01:54:57.159 --> 01:55:03.659 Okay there was a list that I think Susan brought up of I 01:55:03.659 --> 01:55:05.640 don't know whether 01:55:05.640 --> 01:55:09.720 they're nonprofits or church organizations or whatever that 01:55:09.720 --> 01:55:10.239 obviously 01:55:10.239 --> 01:55:13.329 see a need I think you mentioned quite a few of those that 01:55:13.329 --> 01:55:14.800 helped up to 1200 01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:19.920 people. We have a specific I would call it a public-private 01:55:19.920 --> 01:55:21.159 partnership or 01:55:21.159 --> 01:55:26.010 contract with one entity to administer the funds that the 01:55:26.010 --> 01:55:27.279 city does if I'm 01:55:27.279 --> 01:55:33.439 understanding it. I don't know if it would make sense but 01:55:33.439 --> 01:55:35.960 to have maybe that 01:55:35.960 --> 01:55:41.760 public-private partnership with expand that some to other 01:55:41.760 --> 01:55:43.479 organizations or if 01:55:43.479 --> 01:55:46.289 they're doing that voluntarily maybe there's no need to do 01:55:46.289 --> 01:55:47.239 that. So one of 01:55:47.239 --> 01:55:49.939 the things with those additional resources that miss Parker 01:55:49.939 --> 01:55:50.800 brought up we 01:55:50.800 --> 01:55:53.600 do work with them because they reach out to us to ensure 01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:54.920 they understand what the 01:55:54.920 --> 01:55:57.489 customer needs are they let us know what amount they're 01:55:57.489 --> 01:55:58.640 going to be pledging so 01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:01.020 we can make sure the customer doesn't have any interruption 01:56:01.020 --> 01:56:01.800 of service until 01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:05.090 we get that pledge payment on there but as far as contract 01:56:05.090 --> 01:56:06.359 ual we only have the 01:56:06.359 --> 01:56:09.960 one with interfaith ministries for that so am I 01:56:09.960 --> 01:56:11.760 understanding that maybe not 01:56:11.760 --> 01:56:15.750 having just one contract but multiple with agency is that 01:56:15.750 --> 01:56:17.119 what I'm asking I 01:56:17.119 --> 01:56:21.189 don't I don't know that that's even viable or needed if all 01:56:21.189 --> 01:56:22.039 of these other 01:56:22.039 --> 01:56:28.220 agencies are already doing it without having to formally 01:56:28.220 --> 01:56:30.720 enter into an agreement. 01:56:30.720 --> 01:56:36.520 I think I may be able to address some of that we did an RFP 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:38.279 for that service a 01:56:38.279 --> 01:56:43.340 few years ago and interfaith was the firm or the nonprofit 01:56:43.340 --> 01:56:44.159 that wanted to do 01:56:44.159 --> 01:56:47.399 the service there is some administration that has to go 01:56:47.399 --> 01:56:48.319 along with it you need 01:56:48.319 --> 01:56:50.609 to have some infrastructure to do that so there may be 01:56:50.609 --> 01:56:51.680 others that would want 01:56:51.680 --> 01:56:53.579 to do that we're certainly willing to talk to them if you 01:56:53.579 --> 01:56:54.239 want to have more 01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:56.529 than one partner I think that would be fine it's just 01:56:56.529 --> 01:56:57.680 matter of finding someone 01:56:57.680 --> 01:57:00.579 who's willing to do that for the programs already have in 01:57:00.579 --> 01:57:01.359 place perhaps. 01:57:01.359 --> 01:57:05.920 Again I'm asking for understanding not necessarily 01:57:05.920 --> 01:57:07.760 suggesting that okay needs 01:57:07.760 --> 01:57:12.710 to be done because I agree with Susan you know the business 01:57:12.710 --> 01:57:14.079 side the credit 01:57:14.079 --> 01:57:19.010 standards your deposit that I've seen too many businesses 01:57:19.010 --> 01:57:20.119 fail when they start 01:57:20.119 --> 01:57:28.079 loaning credit standards banks cities housing authorities 01:57:28.079 --> 01:57:29.239 and on and on and 01:57:29.239 --> 01:57:32.659 on and I've seen that from firsthand personal because I 01:57:32.659 --> 01:57:34.479 foreclosed on or 01:57:34.479 --> 01:57:38.270 suit them or whatever so I don't think we should ever lower 01:57:38.270 --> 01:57:39.680 credit standards and 01:57:39.680 --> 01:57:44.140 policies but to help from a social side this type of thing 01:57:44.140 --> 01:57:45.840 and how do you make 01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:48.630 it better and how do you solicit more money or how do you 01:57:48.630 --> 01:57:50.319 how do you raise 01:57:50.319 --> 01:57:54.399 more money without necessarily jeopardizing increasing 01:57:54.399 --> 01:57:56.359 utility rates 01:57:56.359 --> 01:58:05.489 is a challenge but also worthy of trying to do. Okay 01:58:05.489 --> 01:58:05.560 understood. I'm sorry no I 01:58:05.560 --> 01:58:08.760 talked too much. Go ahead Lily. You've got some background 01:58:08.760 --> 01:58:10.819 on. I do I do in my time 01:58:10.819 --> 01:58:15.210 with United Way as their CEO for about five years and then 01:58:15.210 --> 01:58:16.439 also as a fundraiser 01:58:16.439 --> 01:58:20.770 for the United Way everyone on staff had to answer calls 01:58:20.770 --> 01:58:21.680 from the community 01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:26.130 asking for assistance and more times than I can count they 01:58:26.130 --> 01:58:27.479 would not were not 01:58:27.479 --> 01:58:33.439 able to get funds for their to go towards their bills for 01:58:33.439 --> 01:58:34.279 electricity 01:58:34.279 --> 01:58:38.840 because they had already gone once before or other 01:58:38.840 --> 01:58:41.039 organizations had already 01:58:41.039 --> 01:58:45.369 run out of funds and so there might be a whole bunch of 01:58:45.369 --> 01:58:46.520 organizations out there 01:58:46.520 --> 01:58:49.970 but they have very limited funding for this particular 01:58:49.970 --> 01:58:51.359 thing and so it really 01:58:51.359 --> 01:58:55.439 doesn't cover the need that is out there. The other point 01:58:55.439 --> 01:58:56.760 that I wish to make is 01:58:56.760 --> 01:59:02.369 that while addressing homelessness that is a huge problem 01:59:02.369 --> 01:59:03.319 problem that a lot of 01:59:03.319 --> 01:59:08.229 families even families who have both spouses working still 01:59:08.229 --> 01:59:09.359 run into this 01:59:09.359 --> 01:59:13.199 problem of not being able to pay all of their their funding 01:59:13.199 --> 01:59:14.399 and so you ask you 01:59:14.399 --> 01:59:17.850 have to ask yourself the question is are we going to you 01:59:17.850 --> 01:59:19.319 know have these people 01:59:19.319 --> 01:59:21.770 thrown out on the streets because they couldn't pay their 01:59:21.770 --> 01:59:22.720 electric bill or are 01:59:22.720 --> 01:59:25.960 we going to help them this time and let them continue to 01:59:25.960 --> 01:59:27.479 work and make money and 01:59:27.479 --> 01:59:31.810 provide for their families so that they can also pay for 01:59:31.810 --> 01:59:33.760 their electric bill on 01:59:33.760 --> 01:59:38.319 a regular basis and quite frankly up to three times a year 01:59:38.319 --> 01:59:39.960 I think would be the 01:59:39.960 --> 01:59:43.489 kinder thing for us to be able to do and also not only kind 01:59:43.489 --> 01:59:44.800 but also to ensure 01:59:44.800 --> 01:59:48.600 that families don't become homeless because they couldn't 01:59:48.600 --> 01:59:49.720 have their bills 01:59:49.720 --> 01:59:54.960 paid that one time a year. Yes can I piggyback on that I 01:59:54.960 --> 01:59:56.600 just want to say I 01:59:56.600 --> 02:00:03.600 completely agree with with what Lillia just said both about 02:00:03.600 --> 02:00:05.880 the the homeless 02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:10.850 deposit waiver and up to three times more a year assistance 02:00:10.850 --> 02:00:11.439 and the 02:00:11.439 --> 02:00:15.920 connection between these two issues because as our Denton 02:00:15.920 --> 02:00:16.699 homeless 02:00:16.699 --> 02:00:24.270 coalition you know makes clear that people that low-income 02:00:24.270 --> 02:00:25.920 people are on 02:00:25.920 --> 02:00:31.199 the verge of homelessness and that home and that homeless 02:00:31.199 --> 02:00:32.439 is not a kind of 02:00:32.439 --> 02:00:37.130 person but a state of being that that that anybody could 02:00:37.130 --> 02:00:39.159 fall into at one time 02:00:39.159 --> 02:00:44.600 and so there's a direct connection between these two. I 02:00:44.600 --> 02:00:47.880 would like to have 02:00:47.880 --> 02:00:55.449 staff consider bring to the table the possibility of a low- 02:00:55.449 --> 02:00:57.319 income deposit 02:00:57.319 --> 02:01:02.729 waiver because these are precisely the people who you know 02:01:02.729 --> 02:01:05.880 low-income people who 02:01:05.880 --> 02:01:10.479 are being asked to put more upfront when they don't even 02:01:10.479 --> 02:01:13.039 have the money to simply 02:01:13.039 --> 02:01:19.260 pay their bill and I find really interesting if you wouldn 02:01:19.260 --> 02:01:20.439 't mind going 02:01:20.439 --> 02:01:26.119 to the additional information slide the follow-up 02:01:26.119 --> 02:01:30.319 information slide or the 02:01:30.319 --> 02:01:34.520 let's see this is page page seven of the follow-up 02:01:34.520 --> 02:01:39.159 information. Sorry let me get 02:01:39.159 --> 02:01:41.520 a hold up. 02:02:01.319 --> 02:02:01.460 Yes it's with the additional funding yes yeah starting 02:02:01.460 --> 02:02:08.960 right there yeah so you 02:02:08.960 --> 02:02:08.960 see um so where it says it a hundred thousand dollars right 02:02:08.960 --> 02:02:13.960 towards the plus 02:02:13.960 --> 02:02:13.960 one program and then you scroll down to the next item item 02:02:13.960 --> 02:02:20.520 11 which is this 02:02:20.520 --> 02:02:29.510 breakdown of uncollectible debt and that a hundred thousand 02:02:29.510 --> 02:02:32.000 dollars is just a 02:02:32.000 --> 02:02:39.920 little less than half of the uncollected residential debt 02:02:39.920 --> 02:02:43.039 that exists today right 02:02:43.039 --> 02:02:46.840 so we're really looking at you know when I when I look at 02:02:46.840 --> 02:02:48.119 this and I found this 02:02:48.119 --> 02:02:52.310 so interesting and I'm really grateful that you know you 02:02:52.310 --> 02:02:54.039 put this on here as 02:02:54.039 --> 02:02:58.250 far as thinking about you know not just does the deposit 02:02:58.250 --> 02:02:59.800 system work but how 02:02:59.800 --> 02:03:05.079 does it work you know what I see is that the commercial 02:03:05.079 --> 02:03:08.520 debt has shrunk so 02:03:08.520 --> 02:03:12.199 significantly both in terms of the amount of money and the 02:03:12.199 --> 02:03:13.680 overall percentage 02:03:13.680 --> 02:03:17.119 the piece of the pie of the uncollected debt and you can 02:03:17.119 --> 02:03:18.359 see that in terms of 02:03:18.359 --> 02:03:22.850 percentages the commercial category has literally switched 02:03:22.850 --> 02:03:23.520 places with the 02:03:23.520 --> 02:03:27.420 residential category we go from 46% of the total uncoll 02:03:27.420 --> 02:03:28.319 ected debt being 02:03:28.319 --> 02:03:33.479 commercial to 46% of the uncollected debt being residential 02:03:33.479 --> 02:03:34.680 so what that says 02:03:34.680 --> 02:03:41.520 to me is that the deposit is that since we enacted this 02:03:41.520 --> 02:03:44.239 deposit system that 02:03:44.239 --> 02:03:47.800 we've we've shrunk the total uncollected debt down but we 02:03:47.800 --> 02:03:50.279 've done that by 02:03:50.279 --> 02:03:55.600 shifting the burden to you know from essentially the you 02:03:55.600 --> 02:03:58.000 know rich but I could 02:03:58.000 --> 02:04:01.449 say from the rich to the poor you know from from the 02:04:01.449 --> 02:04:03.399 commercial entities that 02:04:03.399 --> 02:04:06.369 can pay these deposits because you can see there's so 02:04:06.369 --> 02:04:07.880 little uncollected debt 02:04:07.880 --> 02:04:11.890 now from commercial because they can pay right they can pay 02:04:11.890 --> 02:04:13.239 their deposits most 02:04:13.239 --> 02:04:16.210 of them can and then you have these residents and I should 02:04:16.210 --> 02:04:16.960 say I've been you 02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:25.729 know since I started on PUB I am contacted every every week 02:04:25.729 --> 02:04:27.920 by multiple 02:04:27.920 --> 02:04:31.770 you know low low-income people who are struggling to pay 02:04:31.770 --> 02:04:33.319 their bills which are 02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:37.199 augmented by these extra you know as you know and you know 02:04:37.199 --> 02:04:38.119 more about it than I 02:04:38.119 --> 02:04:40.920 do because you talked to him you know more of these people 02:04:40.920 --> 02:04:42.760 than I do so you 02:04:42.760 --> 02:04:45.470 know what I would like to propose again is following up on 02:04:45.470 --> 02:04:46.239 what I was saying 02:04:46.239 --> 02:04:50.149 before and I'm just using this as the as the data to back 02:04:50.149 --> 02:04:51.479 that up this is what 02:04:51.479 --> 02:04:56.380 gave me the idea you know if we could you know keep the 02:04:56.380 --> 02:04:57.920 commercial deposits and 02:04:57.920 --> 02:05:04.720 and include not just a waiver for people who are homeless 02:05:04.720 --> 02:05:06.479 but for people who are 02:05:06.479 --> 02:05:09.380 on the verge of always on the verge of homelessness which 02:05:09.380 --> 02:05:10.680 is quite frankly low 02:05:10.680 --> 02:05:18.869 income people in Denton in general and and then we could 02:05:18.869 --> 02:05:20.640 even if you're taught 02:05:20.640 --> 02:05:23.289 if you're you know looking at the plus one program so I'm 02:05:23.289 --> 02:05:24.680 kind of jumping from 02:05:24.680 --> 02:05:26.939 you know one to the other and back because they are such 02:05:26.939 --> 02:05:27.899 related issues and 02:05:27.899 --> 02:05:30.029 but and I and I push for that reason I appreciate having 02:05:30.029 --> 02:05:30.960 both these issues in 02:05:30.960 --> 02:05:36.239 the same presentation you know what about since so if you 02:05:36.239 --> 02:05:37.880 scroll up to that 02:05:38.399 --> 02:05:45.970 scroll back up to the plus one so if what we're doing with 02:05:45.970 --> 02:05:47.880 the you know plus 02:05:47.880 --> 02:05:52.720 one program is we're giving a hundred thousand to a third 02:05:52.720 --> 02:05:54.640 party and they keep 02:05:54.640 --> 02:05:59.479 fourteen thousand for their operations and then they're 02:05:59.479 --> 02:06:01.159 giving the rest of the 02:06:01.159 --> 02:06:06.270 money back to our ratepayers to give back to us you know 02:06:06.270 --> 02:06:08.079 why not from a point 02:06:08.079 --> 02:06:11.520 of view of just you know practicality and you know fiscal 02:06:11.520 --> 02:06:12.359 responsibility just 02:06:12.359 --> 02:06:17.640 kind of cut the middleman and have staff have you know have 02:06:17.640 --> 02:06:22.039 customer service you 02:06:22.039 --> 02:06:26.029 know do away with the low-income deposit which means less 02:06:26.029 --> 02:06:27.479 time spent on on the on 02:06:27.479 --> 02:06:30.189 the phones you know I think more you said said previously 02:06:30.189 --> 02:06:30.960 at council work 02:06:30.960 --> 02:06:34.250 session more than 50% of the time on customers not 10% but 02:06:34.250 --> 02:06:35.079 I went back and 02:06:35.079 --> 02:06:40.079 research okay so it is less okay yeah but but but you 02:06:40.079 --> 02:06:41.239 remember that yeah that 02:06:41.239 --> 02:06:43.720 question yeah so but you know a significant part of time so 02:06:43.720 --> 02:06:44.079 what if 02:06:44.079 --> 02:06:47.239 instead you know you were able to spend this time it would 02:06:47.239 --> 02:06:48.399 be helping the same 02:06:48.399 --> 02:06:55.159 kinds of customers but having being able to provide that 02:06:55.159 --> 02:06:57.399 assistance at the level 02:06:57.399 --> 02:06:59.600 of staff and I don't expect you to actually be able to 02:06:59.600 --> 02:07:00.479 answer that right 02:07:00.479 --> 02:07:03.560 now I do have a thought on that if I may yeah with that 02:07:03.560 --> 02:07:04.880 they customers are 02:07:04.880 --> 02:07:08.329 divulging a lot of personal information with getting 02:07:08.329 --> 02:07:09.659 assistance like do they 02:07:09.659 --> 02:07:13.729 meet the criteria what's their financial need health I mean 02:07:13.729 --> 02:07:14.600 you got HIPAA stuff 02:07:14.600 --> 02:07:17.560 in there too and I don't know I don't necessarily know if 02:07:17.560 --> 02:07:18.680 the city wants to be 02:07:18.680 --> 02:07:22.239 brought into scope with all that and being us saying no to 02:07:22.239 --> 02:07:23.399 you and yes to you 02:07:23.399 --> 02:07:27.539 with that I think that's one of the primary reasons we do 02:07:27.539 --> 02:07:28.840 do a contract for 02:07:28.840 --> 02:07:31.939 this so we establish the criteria and then the customer 02:07:31.939 --> 02:07:32.760 goes to interfaith 02:07:32.760 --> 02:07:35.560 that make sure they meet the criteria in addition that they 02:07:35.560 --> 02:07:36.520 know the additional 02:07:36.520 --> 02:07:39.539 resources that are out in the community because it isn't 02:07:39.539 --> 02:07:40.760 usually just one need 02:07:40.760 --> 02:07:43.840 with utilities it's probably a combination of needs and so 02:07:43.840 --> 02:07:44.800 interfaith is 02:07:44.800 --> 02:07:47.760 that that resource for them to be able to get the 02:07:47.760 --> 02:07:49.600 additional resources that 02:07:49.600 --> 02:07:53.680 they may need with us thank you for bringing that up 02:07:53.680 --> 02:07:54.279 because I was just 02:07:54.279 --> 02:07:57.229 gonna say we don't want to know that Deb we don't want to 02:07:57.229 --> 02:07:58.560 know that about our 02:07:58.560 --> 02:08:02.430 customers and and I think using this third party is a 02:08:02.430 --> 02:08:03.979 better way and if that 02:08:03.979 --> 02:08:07.430 means we help them with deposits and they will get other 02:08:07.430 --> 02:08:08.479 resources do they 02:08:08.479 --> 02:08:12.079 need food do they need you know clothing for their children 02:08:12.079 --> 02:08:13.920 and things it's a 02:08:13.920 --> 02:08:17.600 really is a more efficient interfaith does a lot of things 02:08:17.600 --> 02:08:18.760 besides utility 02:08:18.760 --> 02:08:22.210 assistance and so you know for fourteen thousand dollars 02:08:22.210 --> 02:08:24.720 that is a very 02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:29.359 efficient very cheap administrative cost especially if the 02:08:29.359 --> 02:08:30.439 city to take it on I 02:08:30.439 --> 02:08:34.329 think you you would have to budget I don't know what at the 02:08:34.329 --> 02:08:35.079 budget to 02:08:35.079 --> 02:08:37.880 administer that program but it would be I just don't think 02:08:37.880 --> 02:08:39.039 it'd be very efficient 02:08:39.039 --> 02:08:42.489 I think having a third party that also takes care of these 02:08:42.489 --> 02:08:43.760 other needs school 02:08:43.760 --> 02:08:47.880 supplies medical referrals that type of stuff 02:08:47.880 --> 02:08:50.079 transportation see yeah really 02:08:50.079 --> 02:08:52.159 really makes because they're getting the information anyway 02:08:52.159 --> 02:08:53.199 I think we agree on 02:08:53.199 --> 02:08:57.039 the outcome we're trying to achieve oh of course yeah yes 02:08:57.039 --> 02:08:58.279 yeah of course yeah I 02:08:58.279 --> 02:09:02.680 just it's because I know from having talked to you so many 02:09:02.680 --> 02:09:03.520 customers and also 02:09:03.520 --> 02:09:05.560 having talked to you know customer service that you know 02:09:05.560 --> 02:09:06.079 you guys are 02:09:06.079 --> 02:09:08.119 hearing these stories anyway I completely understand why 02:09:08.119 --> 02:09:08.640 you don't want 02:09:08.640 --> 02:09:12.399 to you know get involved but it's all but in design 02:09:12.399 --> 02:09:14.399 customer services is also 02:09:14.399 --> 02:09:19.239 making just simply by being customer service ending up 02:09:19.239 --> 02:09:20.399 making decisions 02:09:20.399 --> 02:09:23.640 because it's not an exact science and you can't predict 02:09:23.640 --> 02:09:24.960 what every individual 02:09:24.960 --> 02:09:29.189 case is going to be you know ending up deciding in certain 02:09:29.189 --> 02:09:30.159 cases for instance 02:09:30.159 --> 02:09:33.600 there are certain customers who have come to me in dire 02:09:33.600 --> 02:09:34.479 situations and by 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:39.029 the way I have yet to meet anyone who pays deposits who's 02:09:39.029 --> 02:09:40.479 not in some kind of 02:09:40.479 --> 02:09:47.479 difficult circumstances it so I would like to see also more 02:09:47.479 --> 02:09:49.039 information about 02:09:49.039 --> 02:09:52.529 not only and I'm glad you're asking for plus one for more 02:09:52.529 --> 02:09:53.920 assist for more data 02:09:53.920 --> 02:09:57.539 on you know the kinds of obstacles in people's way I'd also 02:09:57.539 --> 02:09:58.359 like to see more 02:09:58.359 --> 02:10:06.170 about the income levels of people who are being charged 02:10:06.170 --> 02:10:09.079 deposits so I got a 02:10:09.079 --> 02:10:14.420 map and I appreciated the map that shows kind of where you 02:10:14.420 --> 02:10:16.000 know the clusters of 02:10:16.000 --> 02:10:19.590 where people who pay deposits are that's included in this 02:10:19.590 --> 02:10:20.960 but I would like to see 02:10:20.960 --> 02:10:27.109 data on the income levels of the people who are asked to 02:10:27.109 --> 02:10:28.119 pay deposits 02:10:28.119 --> 02:10:31.199 because I think what will my guess is what we'll find and 02:10:31.199 --> 02:10:32.079 what I've seen 02:10:32.079 --> 02:10:37.319 anecdotally is that it is our low our lower income 02:10:37.319 --> 02:10:39.680 customers on average who 02:10:39.680 --> 02:10:45.640 have to pay these who have to pay these deposits I think 02:10:45.640 --> 02:10:46.279 the criteria for 02:10:46.279 --> 02:10:51.359 deposits is what their credit yes that that's and that 02:10:51.359 --> 02:10:52.279 determines whether or 02:10:52.279 --> 02:10:56.720 not they're gonna pay us back or not and so from a business 02:10:56.720 --> 02:10:58.439 standpoint we got to 02:10:58.439 --> 02:11:02.039 be good stewards from business standpoint of making 02:11:02.039 --> 02:11:03.520 business decisions 02:11:03.520 --> 02:11:06.609 and that's what Susan we go back to that pie chart the 02:11:06.609 --> 02:11:08.039 reason why commercial 02:11:08.039 --> 02:11:11.189 started paying their bills because they were required to 02:11:11.189 --> 02:11:12.439 put down a deposit just 02:11:12.439 --> 02:11:15.890 like everyone else yes and I look at the chart the 02:11:15.890 --> 02:11:18.439 residential there in half to 02:11:18.439 --> 02:11:23.890 multifamily didn't have quite as much but the reason isn't 02:11:23.890 --> 02:11:24.079 the reason that 02:11:24.079 --> 02:11:29.960 that's lower is because you all instituted tighter credit 02:11:29.960 --> 02:11:30.920 controls and 02:11:30.920 --> 02:11:35.470 tighter collection policies yes and so that encourage 02:11:35.470 --> 02:11:37.359 people to start paying 02:11:37.359 --> 02:11:44.359 that's why that's down yeah probably and we can figure out 02:11:44.359 --> 02:11:45.239 a way to help those 02:11:45.239 --> 02:11:48.960 people who need help yeah well you know that in my from 02:11:48.960 --> 02:11:51.359 from what I have seen 02:11:51.359 --> 02:11:57.699 from talking to ratepayers whose lives have been really you 02:11:57.699 --> 02:12:00.600 know that these in 02:12:00.600 --> 02:12:05.189 in ways that some of us you know can't can't think of the 02:12:05.189 --> 02:12:06.279 kind of decisions 02:12:06.279 --> 02:12:12.869 that they have to make every day these deposits have been 02:12:12.869 --> 02:12:14.720 really successful at 02:12:14.720 --> 02:12:19.050 the commercial level and they have been successful you know 02:12:19.050 --> 02:12:19.800 for at the 02:12:19.800 --> 02:12:23.899 residential level but at what cost and what I'm seeing is 02:12:23.899 --> 02:12:25.319 the cost of making 02:12:25.319 --> 02:12:31.600 poor people's lives pretty miserable and I don't think it's 02:12:31.600 --> 02:12:33.319 if it were up to me 02:12:33.319 --> 02:12:36.800 I'm one voice on PUB but I don't think it's worth that 02:12:36.800 --> 02:12:38.279 savings you know the 02:12:38.279 --> 02:12:41.260 difference between that that the residential savings the 02:12:41.260 --> 02:12:41.520 difference 02:12:41.520 --> 02:12:43.869 between that five hundred thousand and that two hundred 02:12:43.869 --> 02:12:44.880 something thousand when 02:12:44.880 --> 02:12:47.890 we're already committed because as you said Susan because 02:12:47.890 --> 02:12:48.960 we all do have that 02:12:48.960 --> 02:12:51.970 same goal of wanting to you know help it's just just a 02:12:51.970 --> 02:12:53.239 matter of different 02:12:53.239 --> 02:12:56.760 ideas of how we get there I completely understand that but 02:12:56.760 --> 02:12:58.000 you know we're all 02:12:58.000 --> 02:13:00.949 we're already committing to okay we're putting a hundred 02:13:00.949 --> 02:13:02.079 thousand dollars down 02:13:02.079 --> 02:13:08.399 to help you know why not step back and look more at and I 02:13:08.399 --> 02:13:09.439 think the interfaith 02:13:09.439 --> 02:13:11.890 can help us with this and providing more of this 02:13:11.890 --> 02:13:16.239 information how this this the 02:13:16.239 --> 02:13:20.289 inability to be able to pay this extra money upfront is 02:13:20.289 --> 02:13:21.880 affecting people's 02:13:21.880 --> 02:13:27.640 lives and what would happen economically without just 02:13:27.640 --> 02:13:29.000 assuming oh we can handle 02:13:29.000 --> 02:13:32.800 it you know actually looking at you know at adding up the 02:13:32.800 --> 02:13:34.239 figures from a risk 02:13:34.239 --> 02:13:40.880 analysis perspective what if we exempted low-income people 02:13:40.880 --> 02:13:43.000 how much money we have 02:13:43.000 --> 02:13:46.800 from the deposits how much so I would really like to see 02:13:46.800 --> 02:13:48.640 that how much money 02:13:48.640 --> 02:13:54.789 would you know would we be losing or how much would we be 02:13:54.789 --> 02:13:55.800 gaining an 02:13:55.800 --> 02:13:59.680 uncollected debt I really want to see that because I've 02:13:59.680 --> 02:14:00.560 seen how this has 02:14:00.560 --> 02:14:08.130 really ruined people's I think you're making an assumption 02:14:08.130 --> 02:14:10.279 between low income 02:14:10.279 --> 02:14:13.930 and bad credit because you can have high income and have 02:14:13.930 --> 02:14:15.399 bad credit and you can 02:14:15.399 --> 02:14:20.399 have low income and have good here for 35 years and I 02:14:20.399 --> 02:14:22.399 believe the first few 02:14:22.399 --> 02:14:25.840 years I paid deposits because I was right out of high 02:14:25.840 --> 02:14:27.039 school I didn't have 02:14:27.039 --> 02:14:31.880 any credit and now I don't pay it was that before 2010 or 02:14:31.880 --> 02:14:33.319 after 35 years so 02:14:33.319 --> 02:14:39.199 when I'm when I'm here that was when everybody paid 02:14:39.199 --> 02:14:40.479 deposits because it used 02:14:40.479 --> 02:14:44.210 to be that everybody paid $150 deposit we still had we 02:14:44.210 --> 02:14:44.880 still had options to 02:14:44.880 --> 02:14:47.550 waive and one of the things is we do not collect data on 02:14:47.550 --> 02:14:49.439 income so we wouldn't be 02:14:49.439 --> 02:14:52.239 able to gather what the income level is for people that 02:14:52.239 --> 02:14:53.640 were charging deposits 02:14:53.640 --> 02:14:56.229 and nor I think going back to the miss Parker's point nor 02:14:56.229 --> 02:14:57.680 do we want to ask well 02:14:57.680 --> 02:15:02.069 are you low-income or get into that okay so if we can't do 02:15:02.069 --> 02:15:03.720 that then we can look 02:15:03.720 --> 02:15:07.880 at if you look at national averages of you know who it is 02:15:07.880 --> 02:15:09.359 in this nation who 02:15:09.359 --> 02:15:15.880 has the bad credit you will find overwhelmingly that it is 02:15:15.880 --> 02:15:17.079 low-income 02:15:17.079 --> 02:15:22.060 people who have bad credit because it's living in America 02:15:22.060 --> 02:15:23.920 is expensive and it is 02:15:23.920 --> 02:15:27.050 not in most people who have bad credit it is not because 02:15:27.050 --> 02:15:28.119 they're spending 02:15:28.119 --> 02:15:30.670 extravagantly you're not managing their money it's because 02:15:30.670 --> 02:15:31.279 life is really 02:15:31.279 --> 02:15:33.689 expensive and I know that you hear these kind of stories in 02:15:33.689 --> 02:15:35.199 United Way and I know 02:15:35.199 --> 02:15:39.420 you hear them in customer service you know I'm sorry to you 02:15:39.420 --> 02:15:40.720 know take the floor 02:15:40.720 --> 02:15:45.159 the floor on this but but I because I am also concerned 02:15:45.159 --> 02:15:46.720 about you know the 02:15:46.720 --> 02:15:49.520 dollars and cents of it and risk management and I do what 02:15:49.520 --> 02:15:50.359 you know want 02:15:50.359 --> 02:15:57.239 to see that this is that it would be fiscally possible but 02:15:57.239 --> 02:16:00.279 just when I just 02:16:00.279 --> 02:16:03.079 look looking at that looking at this and looking at the 02:16:03.079 --> 02:16:04.279 data that we have you 02:16:04.279 --> 02:16:09.130 know I'm not convinced that requiring people with bad 02:16:09.130 --> 02:16:11.119 credit who now who you 02:16:11.119 --> 02:16:13.420 know in terms of nationwide averages tend to be low-income 02:16:13.420 --> 02:16:14.239 people in terms of 02:16:14.239 --> 02:16:20.840 everybody who's come to me low-income people I don't see 02:16:20.840 --> 02:16:21.479 the advantage 02:16:21.479 --> 02:16:25.520 financially in charging them for this and having so many 02:16:25.520 --> 02:16:27.159 staff hours spent you 02:16:27.159 --> 02:16:31.539 know chasing down people to get them to pay I would like to 02:16:31.539 --> 02:16:34.959 see more more data 02:16:34.959 --> 02:16:38.670 more information since we're all agree we want to help 02:16:38.670 --> 02:16:40.040 people why assume that 02:16:40.040 --> 02:16:43.850 that these two ways or you know the ways the ways to do it 02:16:43.850 --> 02:16:45.319 charge people a lot 02:16:45.319 --> 02:16:48.989 and then give a third party extra money to pay people so 02:16:48.989 --> 02:16:50.440 that they can give us 02:16:50.440 --> 02:16:55.159 back the money so the deposit is indicative of what their 02:16:55.159 --> 02:16:55.920 usage is going 02:16:55.920 --> 02:16:59.360 to be going into that address and that's why we're 02:16:59.360 --> 02:17:00.719 collecting it but the map on 02:17:00.719 --> 02:17:03.610 exhibit four does demonstrate that these deposits are 02:17:03.610 --> 02:17:04.959 throughout the city yes 02:17:04.959 --> 02:17:10.159 there's a specific group or area it definitely represents 02:17:10.159 --> 02:17:10.959 that yeah it is 02:17:10.959 --> 02:17:14.120 throughout the city so so just understand your point of 02:17:14.120 --> 02:17:14.920 contention here 02:17:14.920 --> 02:17:18.360 is that you would just like to see us waive deposits for 02:17:18.360 --> 02:17:19.959 low-income people yes 02:17:19.959 --> 02:17:23.190 what is what's low-income well that would be something to 02:17:23.190 --> 02:17:24.239 be determined I 02:17:24.239 --> 02:17:30.840 mean that right here yeah we don't want to ask our 02:17:30.840 --> 02:17:32.440 customers that you know I 02:17:32.440 --> 02:17:36.770 don't think we want that information we don't we can I 02:17:36.770 --> 02:17:38.920 bring us back into center 02:17:38.920 --> 02:17:44.079 here for a second we're talking about increasing how much 02:17:44.079 --> 02:17:45.120 money and we're 02:17:45.120 --> 02:17:49.450 talking about allocating more money to allow deposits to be 02:17:49.450 --> 02:17:50.520 paid out of the 02:17:50.520 --> 02:17:55.440 plus one or whatever right whatever money we're gonna 02:17:55.440 --> 02:17:57.440 allocate for that so 02:17:57.440 --> 02:18:01.680 it makes the deposits and let's let somebody else determine 02:18:01.680 --> 02:18:02.799 what low income 02:18:02.799 --> 02:18:05.100 is and that's what that's what interfaith does that's what 02:18:05.100 --> 02:18:05.479 other 02:18:05.479 --> 02:18:09.200 agencies do city does not need to be in that business so if 02:18:09.200 --> 02:18:10.879 we allocate more 02:18:10.879 --> 02:18:16.040 money to and allow deposits I think we've accomplished what 02:18:16.040 --> 02:18:17.120 you're talking 02:18:17.120 --> 02:18:23.290 about but but we we put a limit on it because it's a here's 02:18:23.290 --> 02:18:23.760 what we're gonna 02:18:23.760 --> 02:18:28.090 budget for this year and so they'll have a blank check we 02:18:28.090 --> 02:18:29.639 can't do that we can't 02:18:29.639 --> 02:18:33.680 say we just from business standpoint we can't do that so we 02:18:33.680 --> 02:18:35.159 we just need to look 02:18:35.159 --> 02:18:38.120 at from a budget standpoint how much money do we want to 02:18:38.120 --> 02:18:39.200 allocate and do we 02:18:39.200 --> 02:18:44.040 want to allow that money to be used towards deposits as 02:18:44.040 --> 02:18:45.840 well as the utility 02:18:45.840 --> 02:18:50.739 bills and I think that's where we're at yes and so as far 02:18:50.739 --> 02:18:52.479 as giving staff 02:18:52.479 --> 02:18:56.329 guidelines I don't know other than other than that is kind 02:18:56.329 --> 02:18:59.079 of the bottom line you 02:18:59.079 --> 02:19:03.200 know when we get it if we want to we've got a we've got a 02:19:03.200 --> 02:19:04.239 contract that's coming 02:19:04.239 --> 02:19:09.079 up in December there may be some things that in working 02:19:09.079 --> 02:19:09.879 with interfaith that 02:19:09.879 --> 02:19:13.299 come out of some some ideas on how to be more effective and 02:19:13.299 --> 02:19:14.280 more efficient in 02:19:14.280 --> 02:19:18.540 assisting families that need it if it's more more than once 02:19:18.540 --> 02:19:19.639 the 12-month period 02:19:19.639 --> 02:19:24.479 so be it we can put it in there well let's just let's just 02:19:24.479 --> 02:19:27.440 kind of see what 02:19:27.440 --> 02:19:32.139 where that goes and then let's let's tweak the the policies 02:19:32.139 --> 02:19:33.440 we have and then 02:19:33.440 --> 02:19:37.659 and then allocate more funds what well if it as long as we 02:19:37.659 --> 02:19:39.120 have deposits then I 02:19:39.120 --> 02:19:47.879 do so you know if if if we're we are charging people with 02:19:47.879 --> 02:19:50.280 bad credit these 02:19:50.280 --> 02:19:56.899 deposits then I do support very much so it's plus one a 02:19:56.899 --> 02:19:58.639 plus one program 02:19:58.639 --> 02:20:03.969 assisting people with those deposits and I do very much I 02:20:03.969 --> 02:20:06.399 mean I want to support 02:20:06.399 --> 02:20:09.840 you know struggling ratepayers however we can because 02:20:09.840 --> 02:20:10.840 people are really 02:20:10.840 --> 02:20:13.229 struggling so I just want to make it clear I do support 02:20:13.229 --> 02:20:14.200 these aspects of the 02:20:14.200 --> 02:20:17.799 plus one program but I also want to which is why I'm glad 02:20:17.799 --> 02:20:18.799 these two are grouped 02:20:18.799 --> 02:20:23.010 together look at the root of the cause of why people are 02:20:23.010 --> 02:20:25.000 finding themselves in 02:20:25.000 --> 02:20:29.600 this situation you know having a hard time paying their 02:20:29.600 --> 02:20:31.280 deposits and no amount 02:20:31.280 --> 02:20:35.149 you know no policy you know deposit even even though 02:20:35.149 --> 02:20:36.920 deposits have helped with 02:20:36.920 --> 02:20:40.370 some people resident poor residents paint being able to pay 02:20:40.370 --> 02:20:42.200 it has not helped 02:20:42.200 --> 02:20:45.280 all and the statistics prove that because of the you know 02:20:45.280 --> 02:20:46.079 uncollected debt 02:20:46.079 --> 02:20:49.530 that we still have and no policy is going to make money 02:20:49.530 --> 02:20:51.280 magically appear you 02:20:51.280 --> 02:20:55.940 know in poor people's pockets other than actually giving 02:20:55.940 --> 02:20:57.920 them money or subsidizing 02:20:57.920 --> 02:21:01.110 them and I'll just say and then I'll shut up but this is 02:21:01.110 --> 02:21:02.000 one of the reasons 02:21:02.000 --> 02:21:06.010 why I wanted to be on pub because it's a really important 02:21:06.010 --> 02:21:08.239 issue for me when we 02:21:08.239 --> 02:21:14.479 were hiring for the new our new general manager one of the 02:21:14.479 --> 02:21:14.799 one of the 02:21:14.799 --> 02:21:18.600 interviewees was from Seattle and he just happened to 02:21:18.600 --> 02:21:20.360 mention that at the his 02:21:20.360 --> 02:21:25.780 utility in Seattle they subsidized sixty print I haven't 02:21:25.780 --> 02:21:27.319 checked up on this but 02:21:27.319 --> 02:21:32.020 he mentioned that they subsidized sixty percent of low- 02:21:32.020 --> 02:21:34.959 income ratepayers I'm not 02:21:34.959 --> 02:21:40.120 saying so then let's do that you know but but that's just 02:21:40.120 --> 02:21:42.719 an example of you 02:21:42.719 --> 02:21:46.379 know the kind of things that could be possible and I I won 02:21:46.379 --> 02:21:47.559 't say no to 02:21:47.559 --> 02:21:51.180 anything until I see the numbers and how that adds up but 02:21:51.180 --> 02:21:54.600 our options you know as 02:21:54.600 --> 02:21:57.530 far as I see I mean I had to read over those four options a 02:21:57.530 --> 02:21:58.600 number of times to 02:21:58.600 --> 02:22:00.840 be able to differentiate between what exactly is the 02:22:00.840 --> 02:22:02.040 difference you know 02:22:02.040 --> 02:22:08.889 amongst those those options anyway so I will stop now and 02:22:08.889 --> 02:22:10.079 you know thank you for 02:22:10.079 --> 02:22:12.879 for hearing me and I do agree that we're all you know we're 02:22:12.879 --> 02:22:13.959 all on the same page 02:22:13.959 --> 02:22:20.120 with with wanting to help help help people 02:22:20.760 --> 02:22:24.930 the PB is okay with incorporating or do we want to increase 02:22:24.930 --> 02:22:26.319 funds to the plus one 02:22:26.319 --> 02:22:29.450 program you know I think I think the consensus is let's 02:22:29.450 --> 02:22:30.840 look at what we can 02:22:30.840 --> 02:22:34.909 increase it by and what the effect would be if we included 02:22:34.909 --> 02:22:36.559 deposits in that plus 02:22:36.559 --> 02:22:41.459 one reimbursement and increase up to three times a year yes 02:22:41.459 --> 02:22:43.479 yeah we're never 02:22:43.479 --> 02:22:45.459 gonna be able to write enough money to take care of a 02:22:45.459 --> 02:22:47.079 hundred percent I mean 02:22:47.079 --> 02:22:49.979 that's just not possible and I think that if we increase I 02:22:49.979 --> 02:22:50.920 mean they didn't 02:22:50.920 --> 02:22:53.729 use all the money they were given this last fiscal year and 02:22:53.729 --> 02:22:54.559 that might be 02:22:54.559 --> 02:22:57.420 because they're having to refuse people because they've 02:22:57.420 --> 02:22:58.120 only because I've already 02:22:58.120 --> 02:23:03.920 used it so so if we if we increase that if we increase that 02:23:03.920 --> 02:23:04.680 to three times a 02:23:04.680 --> 02:23:08.180 year is their way we can put some provision in the contract 02:23:08.180 --> 02:23:09.000 to increase 02:23:09.000 --> 02:23:12.579 the amount of money if we realize that we upped it to three 02:23:12.579 --> 02:23:13.680 times a year and 02:23:13.680 --> 02:23:16.479 we ran out of money halfway through you know is there a way 02:23:16.479 --> 02:23:17.559 to that we come here 02:23:17.559 --> 02:23:20.079 and leave the hundred thousand that we have now that we 02:23:20.079 --> 02:23:21.120 allocate to them but 02:23:21.120 --> 02:23:24.559 put into the new contract that we can amend that increase 02:23:24.559 --> 02:23:25.600 funds dependent on 02:23:25.600 --> 02:23:29.969 need or maybe go ahead and bump it up what they had what 02:23:29.969 --> 02:23:30.000 they had 02:23:31.000 --> 02:23:34.969 something that will allow it to based upon the revised 02:23:34.969 --> 02:23:36.959 criteria we're saying 02:23:36.959 --> 02:23:40.850 we definitely need more data so we can make better 02:23:40.850 --> 02:23:42.360 decisions and always yes 02:23:42.360 --> 02:23:47.600 yeah and in addition to the other new data that that we're 02:23:47.600 --> 02:23:48.840 requesting I would 02:23:48.840 --> 02:23:52.280 like to see of those what is it 231 families that we've 02:23:52.280 --> 02:23:53.600 assisted you know 02:23:53.600 --> 02:23:59.309 how much money is not on average but family by family since 02:23:59.309 --> 02:24:01.200 it's only 231 02:24:01.200 --> 02:24:05.170 without names of course or any identifying but but how much 02:24:05.170 --> 02:24:05.799 money is 02:24:05.799 --> 02:24:12.389 going to each family because my impression was that it was 02:24:12.389 --> 02:24:13.639 a kind of a 02:24:13.639 --> 02:24:18.479 small percentage of the total bill but I recently I talked 02:24:18.479 --> 02:24:19.959 to one rate payer just 02:24:19.959 --> 02:24:28.190 yesterday who just had her entire bill paid for by by inter 02:24:28.190 --> 02:24:29.520 faith and so you 02:24:29.520 --> 02:24:34.250 know if you just if you do the math I mean I I have data on 02:24:34.250 --> 02:24:35.479 that now yes yeah 02:24:35.479 --> 02:24:38.040 oh excellent that would be great to see thank you dollar 02:24:38.040 --> 02:24:39.280 amount of the yeah so 02:24:39.280 --> 02:24:42.729 I'm guessing that that situation is very rare where they 02:24:42.729 --> 02:24:44.520 pay the entire bill but 02:24:44.520 --> 02:24:46.899 again that's why we want to have good criteria so if they 02:24:46.899 --> 02:24:47.680 want to make have 02:24:47.680 --> 02:24:51.129 that authority to make that decision and Randy on the 02:24:51.129 --> 02:24:53.600 homeless waiver do we have 02:24:53.600 --> 02:24:59.750 consensus on that the homelessness waiver and that waiver 02:24:59.750 --> 02:25:00.559 comes through an 02:25:00.559 --> 02:25:06.319 organization that their progress correct yeah that's a 02:25:06.319 --> 02:25:08.120 great idea and then with 02:25:08.120 --> 02:25:11.440 regards to the deposits you had all these four options I'm 02:25:11.440 --> 02:25:12.120 not sure I'm not 02:25:12.120 --> 02:25:15.219 sure we've decided what we wanted to get where we wanted to 02:25:15.219 --> 02:25:17.040 go with those four 02:25:17.040 --> 02:25:21.969 options I'm an option for yeah that's where I'm at and just 02:25:21.969 --> 02:25:23.079 to make certain 02:25:23.079 --> 02:25:27.120 the deposit process at this point in time is that right now 02:25:27.120 --> 02:25:27.799 whenever a 02:25:27.799 --> 02:25:30.690 customer comes into the utility system we'll run that risk 02:25:30.690 --> 02:25:31.559 assessment if 02:25:31.559 --> 02:25:35.010 they're good no deposit if they're fair it would be a one 02:25:35.010 --> 02:25:36.360 month deposit and then 02:25:36.360 --> 02:25:38.850 if they have a higher risk could be a two month deposit and 02:25:38.850 --> 02:25:39.680 with any of those 02:25:39.680 --> 02:25:42.469 deposit requirements we offer payment arrangements for that 02:25:42.469 --> 02:25:43.360 deposit so we'll 02:25:43.360 --> 02:25:47.750 split that deposit out for them on a monthly basis for them 02:25:47.750 --> 02:25:48.840 and so we work 02:25:48.840 --> 02:25:51.920 with their specific situation on that and if they can 02:25:51.920 --> 02:25:53.239 provide a letter from 02:25:53.239 --> 02:25:56.260 their past utility it's waived letter of credit cosigner or 02:25:56.260 --> 02:25:57.520 if they say I'll go 02:25:57.520 --> 02:26:00.590 on draft and we'll waive the deposit for them for that as 02:26:00.590 --> 02:26:01.399 well the real purpose 02:26:01.399 --> 02:26:04.530 for the deposit is to make sure that those utility bills 02:26:04.530 --> 02:26:05.680 get paid so that we 02:26:05.680 --> 02:26:08.850 don't we're not in a deficit because they start out in a 02:26:08.850 --> 02:26:09.799 post but we're in 02:26:09.799 --> 02:26:12.590 essence issuing credit to when someone comes into the 02:26:12.590 --> 02:26:14.040 system because it's post 02:26:14.040 --> 02:26:17.090 paid and so that's why we do the credit assessment on them 02:26:17.090 --> 02:26:17.879 because it's 02:26:17.879 --> 02:26:22.120 postpaid with and again to note what we discussed last 02:26:22.120 --> 02:26:23.040 month is we have the 02:26:23.040 --> 02:26:27.370 prepaid utilities coming on board very soon which would neg 02:26:27.370 --> 02:26:28.799 ate all the deposits 02:26:28.799 --> 02:26:32.930 and the fees for these customers I just I know you just 02:26:32.930 --> 02:26:34.559 said it but when is that 02:26:34.559 --> 02:26:37.979 coming on board next year yep that's the plan hopefully in 02:26:37.979 --> 02:26:39.799 the summer summertime 02:26:39.799 --> 02:26:44.350 for that so deposits I'm hearing that no changes in deposit 02:26:44.350 --> 02:26:45.120 but include the 02:26:45.120 --> 02:26:49.479 deposit waiver for homelessness and then include this 02:26:49.479 --> 02:26:50.719 criteria for plus one 02:26:50.719 --> 02:26:54.840 potentially start out the increase to 125,000 with the new 02:26:54.840 --> 02:26:55.680 contract with the 02:26:55.680 --> 02:27:00.840 ability to amend that based off of needs that we are able 02:27:00.840 --> 02:27:02.799 to pinpoint and bold 02:27:02.799 --> 02:27:07.959 face the more data and then up to the three times a year 02:27:07.959 --> 02:27:08.959 that's another 02:27:08.959 --> 02:27:14.370 agreement from yes I have one question that's sort of 02:27:14.370 --> 02:27:16.239 related how is it that 02:27:16.239 --> 02:27:20.290 if I move out I could possibly have two and a half months 02:27:20.290 --> 02:27:22.040 of unpaid utilities if 02:27:22.040 --> 02:27:25.489 y'all are billing me once a month I guess I could have not 02:27:25.489 --> 02:27:26.319 paid one month 02:27:26.319 --> 02:27:30.309 okay that's it that's you didn't pay your previous month 02:27:30.309 --> 02:27:30.920 and now you have your 02:27:30.920 --> 02:27:34.399 current bill behind on billing no sir once you get your 02:27:34.399 --> 02:27:35.319 current bill you're 02:27:35.319 --> 02:27:38.129 already two weeks in to your next billing cycle so if you 02:27:38.129 --> 02:27:39.040 didn't pay and 02:27:39.040 --> 02:27:41.520 then you have a new bill and then it's two weeks in so it 02:27:41.520 --> 02:27:42.479 could be upwards of 02:27:42.479 --> 02:27:49.319 two and a half months thank you any other questions I will 02:27:49.319 --> 02:27:50.040 say just about 02:27:50.040 --> 02:27:54.079 just about the map I mean it is that people are spread out 02:27:54.079 --> 02:27:56.200 all over town but 02:27:56.200 --> 02:27:58.579 you know if you look closely you can look at in the South 02:27:58.579 --> 02:27:59.319 ridge and some 02:27:59.319 --> 02:28:02.120 of the other more expensive neighborhoods you aren't really 02:28:02.120 --> 02:28:02.680 finding 02:28:02.680 --> 02:28:08.329 that many deposit payers in there so and so that's why I'm 02:28:08.329 --> 02:28:10.280 you know because I 02:28:10.280 --> 02:28:14.120 believe until I see proof to the contrary I am just going 02:28:14.120 --> 02:28:15.239 to go with it 02:28:15.239 --> 02:28:18.680 with what I see anecdotally and in terms of national 02:28:18.680 --> 02:28:19.639 statistics that this 02:28:19.639 --> 02:28:23.840 credit-based policy ends up targeting poor people I know 02:28:23.840 --> 02:28:24.360 that wasn't the 02:28:24.360 --> 02:28:27.510 intention so I support the homelessness deposit waiver but 02:28:27.510 --> 02:28:28.520 I'm not part of the 02:28:28.520 --> 02:28:33.579 consensus on you know supporting option option four but I 02:28:33.579 --> 02:28:34.319 do support the 02:28:34.319 --> 02:28:38.000 improvements to the plus one I know this is ready Dan but I 02:28:38.000 --> 02:28:38.780 didn't have one 02:28:38.780 --> 02:28:42.639 question since we have and they may do this but it's 02:28:42.639 --> 02:28:45.079 discouraging to find out 02:28:45.079 --> 02:28:48.700 that they're at whatever level their support there is an 02:28:48.700 --> 02:28:50.040 agency that we've 02:28:50.040 --> 02:28:56.190 been proactive the city's been proactive on and yet those 02:28:56.190 --> 02:28:57.920 that need assistance 02:28:57.920 --> 02:29:02.250 that are having such hardship fail either fill out the 02:29:02.250 --> 02:29:03.639 application even 02:29:03.639 --> 02:29:10.440 though they've been told or show up for an appointment now 02:29:10.440 --> 02:29:12.280 I don't know if they 02:29:12.280 --> 02:29:18.430 provide like for low-income housings homebuyer assistance 02:29:18.430 --> 02:29:19.360 and things like 02:29:19.360 --> 02:29:23.690 that to educate people more or credit but and this isn't 02:29:23.690 --> 02:29:25.120 something that we 02:29:25.120 --> 02:29:28.790 would get involved in but I'm just wondering if some of 02:29:28.790 --> 02:29:30.719 these agencies that 02:29:30.719 --> 02:29:34.940 work including the one the ministries offer something like 02:29:34.940 --> 02:29:36.120 that or if it's 02:29:36.120 --> 02:29:38.549 like take it or leave it here it is we have it and if you 02:29:38.549 --> 02:29:39.319 might take the 02:29:39.319 --> 02:29:43.680 initiative fine and if you don't well sorry 02:29:43.680 --> 02:29:47.200 just a holistic approach whenever they're trying to help 02:29:47.200 --> 02:29:48.399 the customers but 02:29:48.399 --> 02:29:51.610 to your to echo your point I was very surprised that 50% 02:29:51.610 --> 02:29:52.559 was declined or 02:29:52.559 --> 02:29:54.780 didn't get assistance because they didn't show up to the 02:29:54.780 --> 02:29:55.879 appointment didn't 02:29:55.879 --> 02:30:02.239 fill out the proper paperwork I'm not surprised I'm not 02:30:02.239 --> 02:30:03.239 surprised 02:30:11.360 --> 02:30:25.840 okay I think you got your thank you 02:30:25.879 --> 02:30:53.770 okay next we have actually we have I think items D&E are 02:30:53.770 --> 02:30:55.079 pretty much on the 02:30:55.079 --> 02:30:58.500 same presentation so we can just go through both of those 02:30:58.500 --> 02:30:59.520 at the same time 02:30:59.520 --> 02:31:04.079 sure well good good late morning Mario can is ours as a 02:31:04.079 --> 02:31:05.159 city manager I just 02:31:05.159 --> 02:31:08.059 wanted to bring a couple items to the board's attention 02:31:08.059 --> 02:31:09.319 that were brought up 02:31:09.319 --> 02:31:13.770 here over the last few weeks one of those is to a 02:31:13.770 --> 02:31:15.760 suggestion was made on a 02:31:15.760 --> 02:31:19.840 previous board meeting about placing certain expenditure 02:31:19.840 --> 02:31:21.540 items on that were 02:31:21.540 --> 02:31:25.469 on a pubs agenda for individual consideration and the 02:31:25.469 --> 02:31:26.959 second item was to 02:31:26.959 --> 02:31:29.760 give consideration that changing the meeting times of the 02:31:29.760 --> 02:31:30.719 board meeting so I 02:31:30.719 --> 02:31:34.170 just wanted to go over a few slides and then at the 02:31:34.170 --> 02:31:36.000 conclusion see try to get 02:31:36.000 --> 02:31:38.409 some understanding as to how the board wants to proceed 02:31:38.409 --> 02:31:39.200 further on these 02:31:39.200 --> 02:31:43.129 matters the first one was it was item was raised back in 02:31:43.129 --> 02:31:44.319 late September about 02:31:44.319 --> 02:31:46.850 placing certain expenditure items I believe it was fifty 02:31:46.850 --> 02:31:47.840 thousand dollars or 02:31:47.840 --> 02:31:53.010 more for individual consideration but before we just delve 02:31:53.010 --> 02:31:55.040 into that exact 02:31:55.040 --> 02:31:58.479 item I just wanted to go over a few things that things that 02:31:58.479 --> 02:31:59.360 are placed on 02:31:59.360 --> 02:32:04.600 the pub agenda and and why and just so you again just for 02:32:04.600 --> 02:32:05.600 the for the public 02:32:05.600 --> 02:32:09.049 that's watching or maybe streaming it later they get an 02:32:09.049 --> 02:32:10.319 understanding as how 02:32:10.319 --> 02:32:14.010 the pub agenda works as you heard earlier this morning we 02:32:14.010 --> 02:32:14.799 have number of 02:32:14.799 --> 02:32:17.600 work session items that are placed on the pub on a regular 02:32:17.600 --> 02:32:18.399 basis to bring 02:32:18.399 --> 02:32:21.549 information to the board seek direction or just really 02:32:21.549 --> 02:32:23.079 share information so that 02:32:23.079 --> 02:32:26.690 at some point in the future the board can make a a 02:32:26.690 --> 02:32:28.059 consideration whether it's 02:32:28.059 --> 02:32:34.319 on the individual consideration or even for the for consent 02:32:34.319 --> 02:32:35.639 during the during 02:32:35.639 --> 02:32:39.760 the spring and summer every year we bring forward operating 02:32:39.760 --> 02:32:41.000 budgets related 02:32:41.000 --> 02:32:45.000 to the utility to utility funds we also bring capital 02:32:45.000 --> 02:32:46.000 improvement budgets to you 02:32:46.000 --> 02:32:49.479 all for you all to review and give feedback to the staff 02:32:49.479 --> 02:32:50.600 about how we're 02:32:50.600 --> 02:32:54.559 proceeding as we build our upcoming budget for the next 02:32:54.559 --> 02:32:56.239 fiscal year or future 02:32:56.239 --> 02:33:01.379 years on occasion we have closed closed session items when 02:33:01.379 --> 02:33:02.120 we're bringing 02:33:02.120 --> 02:33:07.219 forward things related to legal matters real estate matters 02:33:07.219 --> 02:33:08.239 as as those things 02:33:08.239 --> 02:33:12.709 are brought forward and even on competitive a competitive 02:33:12.709 --> 02:33:13.000 electrical 02:33:13.000 --> 02:33:17.229 rate matter so again to make sure that we are making sure 02:33:17.229 --> 02:33:17.920 that we're 02:33:17.920 --> 02:33:21.420 competing appropriately on the electrical rates and not 02:33:21.420 --> 02:33:22.399 disclosing any 02:33:22.399 --> 02:33:27.239 information that that is that is not appropriate recently 02:33:27.239 --> 02:33:29.200 the board reviewed 02:33:29.200 --> 02:33:32.889 some information related to not-for-profit how we how we 02:33:32.889 --> 02:33:33.520 sponsor 02:33:33.520 --> 02:33:37.489 not-for-profit entities the council recently considered an 02:33:37.489 --> 02:33:38.399 item from the 02:33:38.399 --> 02:33:43.540 from Denton municipal electric also utility fund and and 02:33:43.540 --> 02:33:44.479 and wastewater 02:33:44.479 --> 02:33:48.079 funds on the not-for-profit so anything over $2,500 is 02:33:48.079 --> 02:33:49.440 brought forward to the 02:33:49.440 --> 02:33:52.020 PUB for your consideration on it for individual 02:33:52.020 --> 02:33:53.440 consideration with the staff 02:33:53.440 --> 02:33:56.229 report and then it also be brought forward to the City 02:33:56.229 --> 02:33:57.719 Council at their at 02:33:57.719 --> 02:34:00.350 one of their upcoming council meetings any time there's a 02:34:00.350 --> 02:34:01.360 procurement matter 02:34:01.360 --> 02:34:04.879 will bring forward if it's $100,000 or more that will be 02:34:04.879 --> 02:34:05.760 also brought forward 02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:09.360 and at a PUB and then for council for their consideration 02:34:09.360 --> 02:34:10.600 there are occasions 02:34:10.600 --> 02:34:14.049 where an item may be brought forward that's under the 100k 02:34:14.049 --> 02:34:14.879 threshold but 02:34:14.879 --> 02:34:18.879 usually it's for some things that are non recurring unique 02:34:18.879 --> 02:34:20.559 things that are just 02:34:20.559 --> 02:34:23.850 fall outside of the ordinary and again just more to bring 02:34:23.850 --> 02:34:24.600 to the PUB's 02:34:24.600 --> 02:34:27.729 attention and give your consideration and guidance as we 02:34:27.729 --> 02:34:28.840 bring those things 02:34:28.840 --> 02:34:32.579 forward and last but not least things that are special 02:34:32.579 --> 02:34:33.879 projects unique things 02:34:33.879 --> 02:34:36.809 that are brought forward certainly the the Weaver and Tid 02:34:36.809 --> 02:34:37.879 well report that you 02:34:37.879 --> 02:34:41.010 heard this morning the Black and Beach report those things 02:34:41.010 --> 02:34:42.559 that are that are not 02:34:42.559 --> 02:34:46.159 typically done on a year-in-year-out basis but are special 02:34:46.159 --> 02:34:47.559 projects we bring 02:34:47.559 --> 02:34:50.159 those things forward whether it's to engage into a 02:34:50.159 --> 02:34:51.459 consulting contract to 02:34:51.459 --> 02:34:54.260 give you the scope of the project allow you to give you 02:34:54.260 --> 02:34:55.059 give you some 02:34:55.059 --> 02:34:58.510 information so that you can then consider that so that the 02:34:58.510 --> 02:34:59.239 staff can move 02:34:59.239 --> 02:35:02.389 forward if you deem so if it's appropriate and then we'll 02:35:02.389 --> 02:35:03.159 bring those 02:35:03.159 --> 02:35:06.610 things forward for you for your review certainly anything 02:35:06.610 --> 02:35:07.719 related to policy 02:35:07.719 --> 02:35:10.520 matters if we're amending a policy adding a policy deleting 02:35:10.520 --> 02:35:11.319 a policy just 02:35:11.319 --> 02:35:13.840 like what you just heard just a moment ago about about 02:35:13.840 --> 02:35:15.079 deposits and things that 02:35:15.079 --> 02:35:18.500 age or so it falls right in line with some of the things 02:35:18.500 --> 02:35:19.200 that that that the 02:35:19.200 --> 02:35:22.170 PUB considers and then as I mentioned earlier just these 02:35:22.170 --> 02:35:23.280 new does not a routine 02:35:23.280 --> 02:35:26.540 one-time expenditure items that are brought forward for for 02:35:26.540 --> 02:35:27.440 your attention 02:35:27.440 --> 02:35:35.239 to review. Mouse is going a little haywire here. 02:35:37.600 --> 02:35:41.049 So we use a consent items again the consent agenda item 02:35:41.049 --> 02:35:42.920 just like with any 02:35:42.920 --> 02:35:46.600 board governing board it's allowed it's it's intended so 02:35:46.600 --> 02:35:47.760 that you have a 02:35:47.760 --> 02:35:51.500 slated items on your agenda if it's posted accordingly 02:35:51.500 --> 02:35:52.600 where the governing 02:35:52.600 --> 02:35:55.700 board can make one motion a second and approve that those 02:35:55.700 --> 02:35:56.479 slated items 02:35:56.479 --> 02:35:58.879 accordingly to again to make the agenda run more 02:35:58.879 --> 02:36:01.520 efficiently certainly a member 02:36:01.520 --> 02:36:04.959 with a city council member or governing board can pull an 02:36:04.959 --> 02:36:06.159 item from consent to 02:36:06.159 --> 02:36:09.360 get additional information from staff or receive a report 02:36:09.360 --> 02:36:10.399 or go through some 02:36:10.399 --> 02:36:15.090 details about the item and and and greater detail and then 02:36:15.090 --> 02:36:15.920 the board could 02:36:15.920 --> 02:36:18.829 then consider that individually so you always have that 02:36:18.829 --> 02:36:20.040 option but really the 02:36:20.040 --> 02:36:23.059 items for consent that we typically use those things are 02:36:23.059 --> 02:36:24.319 for more of those more 02:36:24.319 --> 02:36:27.139 routine things that that are brought forward whether it's a 02:36:27.139 --> 02:36:28.079 restocking item 02:36:28.079 --> 02:36:32.409 certainly utility funds and I gave some examples here pipes 02:36:32.409 --> 02:36:34.659 valves maybe on some 02:36:34.659 --> 02:36:39.500 occasion contract contracts with a consultant things that 02:36:39.500 --> 02:36:39.840 are done on a 02:36:39.840 --> 02:36:43.959 more routine basis for again just a cost of doing business 02:36:43.959 --> 02:36:45.079 for for for our 02:36:45.079 --> 02:36:49.629 utility operations more belts and suspenders kind of items 02:36:49.629 --> 02:36:50.639 those things 02:36:50.639 --> 02:36:53.649 are typically well they will be budgeted within the 02:36:53.649 --> 02:36:55.920 operating budgets or the CIP 02:36:55.920 --> 02:36:59.370 budgets they've run through our normal procurement 02:36:59.370 --> 02:37:02.000 procedures so they've been 02:37:02.000 --> 02:37:05.989 vetted through a bid or an RFQ RFP process so again these 02:37:05.989 --> 02:37:07.239 things are more 02:37:07.239 --> 02:37:10.840 routine in nature and the purpose of that as I mentioned 02:37:10.840 --> 02:37:12.319 earlier is to allow 02:37:12.319 --> 02:37:15.489 it to for your your agendas to run more efficiently and the 02:37:15.489 --> 02:37:16.559 intent is to allow 02:37:16.559 --> 02:37:20.010 the board to have higher level discussions whether it's 02:37:20.010 --> 02:37:20.559 regarding 02:37:20.559 --> 02:37:24.620 policy matters or other important issues so that you have 02:37:24.620 --> 02:37:26.040 some time to really 02:37:26.040 --> 02:37:30.280 delve into the topic have debate amongst yourselves develop 02:37:30.280 --> 02:37:31.479 develop consensus and 02:37:31.479 --> 02:37:34.129 give staff direction so that we can move forward so that's 02:37:34.129 --> 02:37:35.680 really the use of the 02:37:35.680 --> 02:37:40.520 consent and the agenda and not many more slides I mean 02:37:40.520 --> 02:37:41.520 certainly we just want to 02:37:41.520 --> 02:37:44.350 get some direction from you all if you want to consent 02:37:44.350 --> 02:37:45.719 consider excuse me 02:37:45.719 --> 02:37:49.440 continue using the consent agenda process and how it's used 02:37:49.440 --> 02:37:50.319 as described 02:37:50.319 --> 02:37:53.610 earlier or if you need additional information or if you 02:37:53.610 --> 02:37:54.280 want to go a 02:37:54.280 --> 02:37:56.879 different direction we're just here to present some of this 02:37:56.879 --> 02:37:57.959 information so that 02:37:57.959 --> 02:38:02.100 we know how to build your future agendas and I'll have 02:38:02.100 --> 02:38:05.760 comments questions yes is 02:38:05.760 --> 02:38:10.600 there a mechanism or a tool where we store this information 02:38:10.600 --> 02:38:11.360 like you just 02:38:11.360 --> 02:38:15.030 told us like some procedures and policies that we follow as 02:38:15.030 --> 02:38:15.680 as a board 02:38:15.680 --> 02:38:18.709 but we don't actually have I mean I imagine they're in our 02:38:18.709 --> 02:38:19.520 minutes if we 02:38:19.520 --> 02:38:23.329 wanted to go back and look and see what we do but in this 02:38:23.329 --> 02:38:25.200 situation we have we 02:38:25.200 --> 02:38:28.649 we had a situation where a board member wanted to change 02:38:28.649 --> 02:38:29.920 something that we do 02:38:29.920 --> 02:38:32.750 it's really a loose procedure but as you pointed out it's 02:38:32.750 --> 02:38:33.760 something that we 02:38:33.760 --> 02:38:36.600 typically do well what we've what we've done at least in 02:38:36.600 --> 02:38:37.479 the time that I've been 02:38:37.479 --> 02:38:39.799 here obviously you have the minutes that you can always go 02:38:39.799 --> 02:38:41.159 back and see and so you 02:38:41.159 --> 02:38:43.399 know any board member is welcome or any member of the 02:38:43.399 --> 02:38:44.520 public is welcome to reach 02:38:44.520 --> 02:38:47.540 out at the city manager's office to or any of our public 02:38:47.540 --> 02:38:49.159 utility or see me any 02:38:49.159 --> 02:38:53.020 utility departments to to try to get historical information 02:38:53.020 --> 02:38:53.600 of what a 02:38:53.600 --> 02:38:56.370 previous board or even a more recent board decision was 02:38:56.370 --> 02:38:57.360 made so we can look 02:38:57.360 --> 02:39:00.489 at the minutes the other mechanism which we use is the ACM 02:39:00.489 --> 02:39:02.100 new business matrix so 02:39:02.100 --> 02:39:04.610 as items are brought forward at the end of a board meeting 02:39:04.610 --> 02:39:05.799 at concluding items if 02:39:05.799 --> 02:39:08.340 there's something that you you or any other board member 02:39:08.340 --> 02:39:09.159 would like to get 02:39:09.159 --> 02:39:13.489 more information on or would like for staff to do some 02:39:13.489 --> 02:39:15.079 research on we take 02:39:15.079 --> 02:39:18.739 that and then we we work internally as far as a staff and 02:39:18.739 --> 02:39:20.000 determine the amount 02:39:20.000 --> 02:39:22.389 of time it might take to to research a matter and if it 02:39:22.389 --> 02:39:23.479 takes something that 02:39:23.479 --> 02:39:26.079 takes a little bit more time then then what we try to do is 02:39:26.079 --> 02:39:26.959 bring bring that 02:39:26.959 --> 02:39:29.840 information to you at the next board meeting to give you an 02:39:29.840 --> 02:39:30.700 idea of when that 02:39:30.700 --> 02:39:34.690 item may be forthcoming so kind of schedule your your 02:39:34.690 --> 02:39:35.520 discussions 02:39:35.520 --> 02:39:38.649 accordingly and the other thing that we're doing to that's 02:39:38.649 --> 02:39:39.159 at least 02:39:39.159 --> 02:39:41.760 relatively new thing based on some other comments that were 02:39:41.760 --> 02:39:42.540 made in previous 02:39:42.540 --> 02:39:46.680 boards is to try to keep a track of upcoming board agenda 02:39:46.680 --> 02:39:48.040 items so things are 02:39:48.040 --> 02:39:52.069 of higher of a higher importance not necessarily just 02:39:52.069 --> 02:39:53.479 typical procurement 02:39:53.479 --> 02:39:56.360 things but things that may be a policy matter or just 02:39:56.360 --> 02:39:57.639 things that that may 02:39:57.639 --> 02:40:01.079 require some discussion or a consultant that may be coming 02:40:01.079 --> 02:40:01.760 forward we'd like to 02:40:01.760 --> 02:40:05.879 keep track of those future agenda meetings so that you as a 02:40:05.879 --> 02:40:06.920 board kind of 02:40:06.920 --> 02:40:10.370 getting a feel for what's coming in December or coming in 02:40:10.370 --> 02:40:11.120 January as we 02:40:11.120 --> 02:40:14.020 start building those agendas is that answer your question 02:40:14.020 --> 02:40:16.520 or sorta sorta okay 02:40:16.520 --> 02:40:20.120 we can visit later and to kind of get a little more details 02:40:20.120 --> 02:40:22.600 I guess I guess you 02:40:22.600 --> 02:40:26.379 know maybe a handbook or bylaws or something like that oh 02:40:26.379 --> 02:40:27.159 okay committees 02:40:27.159 --> 02:40:29.879 will have you know something that you know outside of 02:40:29.879 --> 02:40:30.879 Robert's Rules of 02:40:30.879 --> 02:40:35.209 Order that governs their activities and rules procedure 02:40:35.209 --> 02:40:36.520 yeah we can certainly we 02:40:36.520 --> 02:40:39.940 can certainly build a rules procedure book you know in 02:40:39.940 --> 02:40:41.319 terms of incorporating 02:40:41.319 --> 02:40:44.139 how we've typically run the meeting we certainly have that 02:40:44.139 --> 02:40:45.079 for the City Council 02:40:45.079 --> 02:40:49.239 and but I think that the feedback Mario is trying to get 02:40:49.239 --> 02:40:50.559 from you is kind of an 02:40:50.559 --> 02:40:53.979 explanation of how something winds up on a consent agenda a 02:40:53.979 --> 02:40:55.040 lot of time there's 02:40:55.040 --> 02:40:58.000 there's sort of a call there depending on how busy you are 02:40:58.000 --> 02:41:00.000 but you know it's 02:41:00.000 --> 02:41:02.840 it's we can certainly put you know something together for a 02:41:02.840 --> 02:41:03.600 few pages that 02:41:03.600 --> 02:41:05.649 kind of dictates how we're gonna put these agenda yeah I 02:41:05.649 --> 02:41:06.399 was really using just 02:41:06.399 --> 02:41:13.209 the opportunity to bring that's kind of on I would I would 02:41:13.209 --> 02:41:13.680 like that I think 02:41:13.680 --> 02:41:16.479 that would be helpful and it'd be helpful we're gonna have 02:41:16.479 --> 02:41:17.000 some slots 02:41:17.000 --> 02:41:22.879 opening up and when new people come on I and I don't know 02:41:22.879 --> 02:41:24.440 what y'all are gonna 02:41:24.440 --> 02:41:29.489 think about this I'm curious to see how the rest of PUB 02:41:29.489 --> 02:41:32.360 feels about this but you 02:41:32.360 --> 02:41:35.170 know since we're an advisory committee to council we're in 02:41:35.170 --> 02:41:36.600 an advisory capacity 02:41:36.600 --> 02:41:42.479 to them they obviously have you know so many things to deal 02:41:42.479 --> 02:41:43.239 with because it's 02:41:43.239 --> 02:41:46.690 the whole city so I understand why they need a consent 02:41:46.690 --> 02:41:48.760 agenda I do understand 02:41:48.760 --> 02:41:51.549 that us having a consent agenda definitely makes meetings 02:41:51.549 --> 02:41:52.159 shorter I 02:41:52.159 --> 02:41:59.610 understand that but I myself would support doing away with 02:41:59.610 --> 02:42:00.360 consent agenda 02:42:00.360 --> 02:42:07.260 for the public utility board so that then the public can 02:42:07.260 --> 02:42:09.120 see that that 02:42:09.120 --> 02:42:13.239 everything that ends up getting voted on by council even 02:42:13.239 --> 02:42:15.680 utilities items that go 02:42:15.680 --> 02:42:21.940 on their consent agenda have been vetted and discussed or 02:42:21.940 --> 02:42:23.440 at least had the 02:42:23.440 --> 02:42:29.219 opportunity to discuss on the public utility board I think 02:42:29.219 --> 02:42:30.079 that would be a 02:42:30.079 --> 02:42:36.319 really good move as far as you know a gesture to the public 02:42:36.319 --> 02:42:37.799 you know showing 02:42:37.799 --> 02:42:41.870 what what we do and how seriously we take what we do on the 02:42:41.870 --> 02:42:43.040 UB if an item 02:42:43.040 --> 02:42:47.370 comes up that's just you know a simple item hey we need 02:42:47.370 --> 02:42:49.079 this equipment and 02:42:49.079 --> 02:42:53.790 here's why we needed any questions no then that's you know 02:42:53.790 --> 02:42:55.760 what five seconds 02:42:55.760 --> 02:43:00.799 ten seconds more I don't think you know looking around the 02:43:00.799 --> 02:43:02.000 room I you know I I 02:43:02.000 --> 02:43:05.629 can't imagine that we would have you know huge 02:43:05.629 --> 02:43:08.000 conversations on items that 02:43:08.000 --> 02:43:10.629 appear to all of us to just be okay that sounds good you 02:43:10.629 --> 02:43:11.879 know we don't need a big 02:43:11.879 --> 02:43:14.649 PowerPoint presentation on everything but just to show the 02:43:14.649 --> 02:43:15.840 public that we've had 02:43:15.840 --> 02:43:18.379 the opportunity before it goes on the council consent 02:43:18.379 --> 02:43:19.479 agenda anyway I would 02:43:19.479 --> 02:43:22.920 I would support that doing away with consent agenda for PUB 02:43:22.920 --> 02:43:24.959 thanks I think 02:43:24.959 --> 02:43:27.840 just because it's on a consent agenda doesn't mean that we 02:43:27.840 --> 02:43:28.639 aren't paying 02:43:28.639 --> 02:43:31.659 attention and vetting it and asking questions and still 02:43:31.659 --> 02:43:32.879 have the opportunity 02:43:32.879 --> 02:43:37.280 to remove it from consent agenda for a further discussion 02:43:37.280 --> 02:43:39.079 there are some things 02:43:39.079 --> 02:43:42.879 that are just routine in nature and and I support keeping 02:43:42.879 --> 02:43:44.799 the consent agenda for 02:43:44.799 --> 02:43:48.239 those reasons but I love the work sessions that we're doing 02:43:48.239 --> 02:43:48.879 getting into 02:43:48.879 --> 02:43:52.760 those things and if we've gone through a work session and v 02:43:52.760 --> 02:43:53.680 etted it very 02:43:53.680 --> 02:43:57.889 carefully then it could go on consent agenda I don't want 02:43:57.889 --> 02:43:59.520 us to you know act 02:43:59.520 --> 02:44:02.649 like we're not paying attention I don't know what the thing 02:44:02.649 --> 02:44:04.280 you said we are 02:44:04.280 --> 02:44:07.729 vetting those things we do take it seriously it I 02:44:07.729 --> 02:44:09.239 understand and again I 02:44:09.239 --> 02:44:11.709 mean when when things come up on the consent agenda I read 02:44:11.709 --> 02:44:12.559 everything I know 02:44:12.559 --> 02:44:15.190 we all we all study everything on the consent agenda 02:44:15.190 --> 02:44:16.520 contracts oh yeah no life 02:44:16.520 --> 02:44:20.239 so yeah no no I'm not talking about so on the one hand 02:44:20.239 --> 02:44:21.200 there's like what we do 02:44:21.200 --> 02:44:24.159 you know which is and you know and I know we're all 02:44:24.159 --> 02:44:26.360 studying it but just in 02:44:26.360 --> 02:44:30.909 terms of perception to the public I think it would be a 02:44:30.909 --> 02:44:32.600 good public relations 02:44:32.600 --> 02:44:40.049 move to show them on camera that we're doing this because 02:44:40.049 --> 02:44:42.319 they can't see us and 02:44:42.319 --> 02:44:46.319 again I know I myself know that we're working on this stuff 02:44:46.319 --> 02:44:47.280 you know but as 02:44:47.280 --> 02:44:50.280 far as the public's concern anything that doesn't happen on 02:44:50.280 --> 02:44:51.079 camera in this 02:44:51.079 --> 02:44:56.100 room around this table they don't get they don't get to see 02:44:56.100 --> 02:44:57.360 it so we've opened 02:44:57.360 --> 02:45:01.299 things up so much in this city and it's having a positive 02:45:01.299 --> 02:45:02.399 effect at a critical 02:45:02.399 --> 02:45:07.469 time so anyway but just to be clear that I do know I know 02:45:07.469 --> 02:45:08.639 you're doing the work I 02:45:08.639 --> 02:45:12.090 see you know I see it and I do know that we can always pull 02:45:12.090 --> 02:45:13.399 something so I'm 02:45:13.399 --> 02:45:21.680 really thinking almost exclusively about perception issues 02:45:21.680 --> 02:45:25.520 any other opinions 02:45:25.520 --> 02:45:33.920 consent agenda you know these things I don't know how much 02:45:33.920 --> 02:45:34.760 time you say but 02:45:34.760 --> 02:45:41.010 doing consent agendas it is I have seen it where we've we 02:45:41.010 --> 02:45:42.479 've had consent agenda 02:45:42.479 --> 02:45:45.899 items after a work session we've already spent a lot of 02:45:45.899 --> 02:45:47.239 time on so you know why 02:45:47.239 --> 02:45:51.040 do you open it up for discussion again after you've already 02:45:51.040 --> 02:45:53.000 discussed it you 02:45:53.000 --> 02:45:55.559 know having the opportunity to pull one at any time plus 02:45:55.559 --> 02:45:56.639 all the backup is there 02:45:56.639 --> 02:46:01.479 and it's the backup is there not only for for us but also 02:46:01.479 --> 02:46:02.680 online you can pull 02:46:02.680 --> 02:46:10.479 the I legislate backup material it's open to the public so 02:46:10.479 --> 02:46:13.360 I don't think the 02:46:13.360 --> 02:46:16.069 consent agenda is there to try to hide something certainly 02:46:16.069 --> 02:46:17.159 it's just to make it 02:46:17.159 --> 02:46:21.360 make it more efficient and if if if we leave things on the 02:46:21.360 --> 02:46:22.760 consent agenda we 02:46:22.760 --> 02:46:26.389 always have the opportunity to take it off is my if there's 02:46:26.389 --> 02:46:28.120 a question or some 02:46:28.120 --> 02:46:33.159 clarity clarification or something like that so the 02:46:33.159 --> 02:46:34.799 information is available is 02:46:34.799 --> 02:46:38.760 that correct yes ma'am all agenda items have agenda 02:46:38.760 --> 02:46:39.959 information sheet and then 02:46:39.959 --> 02:46:42.680 if there's a contract a contract and any other supporting 02:46:42.680 --> 02:46:44.180 documentation actually 02:46:44.180 --> 02:46:48.040 I think it's rare that we don't have at least one item 02:46:48.040 --> 02:46:49.639 pulled off of the consent 02:46:49.639 --> 02:46:53.350 yeah I agree it's very I think we had one meeting in the 02:46:53.350 --> 02:46:53.920 last couple years 02:46:53.920 --> 02:47:00.450 where historically I think when they've been pulled it's it 02:47:00.450 --> 02:47:01.920 's one quick question 02:47:01.920 --> 02:47:06.600 a lot of time presentation or need to abstain from a vote 02:47:06.600 --> 02:47:08.120 or whatever yeah yeah 02:47:08.120 --> 02:47:12.059 there's something interesting that you just wanted to get 02:47:12.059 --> 02:47:13.040 an overview absolutely 02:47:13.040 --> 02:47:17.639 okay so what's the direction yes keep putting on the 02:47:17.639 --> 02:47:19.879 consent agenda but just 02:47:19.879 --> 02:47:25.350 know that it may be pulled off okay so just continue it 02:47:25.350 --> 02:47:26.399 works well keep doing 02:47:26.399 --> 02:47:30.159 okay as long as the information is available to the public 02:47:30.159 --> 02:47:32.120 yeah it's it's 02:47:32.120 --> 02:47:35.190 online all the backup is there I think that needs to be 02:47:35.190 --> 02:47:36.760 stressed that even 02:47:36.760 --> 02:47:41.860 though it's on a consent agenda every bit of the backup and 02:47:41.860 --> 02:47:45.239 supporting documents 02:47:45.239 --> 02:47:51.559 or whatever it is is online yes so thanks for thanks 02:47:51.559 --> 02:47:52.239 everybody for 02:47:52.239 --> 02:47:56.700 discussing that and thanks staff for putting that item on 02:47:56.700 --> 02:47:57.200 the agenda the next 02:47:57.200 --> 02:48:01.030 item is again as I mentioned earlier but consideration of 02:48:01.030 --> 02:48:02.440 scheduling future PUB 02:48:02.440 --> 02:48:07.850 meetings meet excuse me PUB meetings into the evening only 02:48:07.850 --> 02:48:10.559 one slide as you 02:48:10.559 --> 02:48:13.299 know we the PUB meets on the second and fourth Monday in 02:48:13.299 --> 02:48:14.639 the morning at 9 a.m. 02:48:14.639 --> 02:48:18.500 there are some options that the board can consider as 02:48:18.500 --> 02:48:20.239 listed here on this on 02:48:20.239 --> 02:48:22.809 the on the screen you can continue doing the way you've 02:48:22.809 --> 02:48:24.120 been doing it you can go 02:48:24.120 --> 02:48:27.190 to all the evening meetings or you can do a hybrid where 02:48:27.190 --> 02:48:28.639 you can alternate one in 02:48:28.639 --> 02:48:31.190 the morning one in the evening or consider other options 02:48:31.190 --> 02:48:32.000 that we did look 02:48:32.000 --> 02:48:35.610 at just some quick scheduling just a little back at just 02:48:35.610 --> 02:48:36.440 some logistical 02:48:36.440 --> 02:48:40.469 things just so you are aware didn't go to every single day 02:48:40.469 --> 02:48:42.239 of the week but this 02:48:42.239 --> 02:48:46.569 is a very busy room it gets used quite a bit and so as you 02:48:46.569 --> 02:48:49.120 know we record all our 02:48:49.120 --> 02:48:52.760 PUB meetings so video record and stream and and it's 02:48:52.760 --> 02:48:54.399 recorded so that people can 02:48:54.399 --> 02:49:00.040 watch it and into the future past meetings and so there's 02:49:00.040 --> 02:49:00.399 some quick 02:49:00.399 --> 02:49:03.639 checking with the city secretary's office at night so if 02:49:03.639 --> 02:49:04.600 you were to keep 02:49:04.600 --> 02:49:07.590 it on say a Monday if you were to move it to a Monday night 02:49:07.590 --> 02:49:08.620 meeting just to 02:49:08.620 --> 02:49:11.569 make you aware there is a conflict with the Traffic Safety 02:49:11.569 --> 02:49:12.680 Commission meets on 02:49:12.680 --> 02:49:16.120 the first Monday of the month on the second the historical 02:49:16.120 --> 02:49:16.399 landmark 02:49:16.399 --> 02:49:21.120 Commission meets on in here the third meet the third Monday 02:49:21.120 --> 02:49:21.639 I don't believe 02:49:21.639 --> 02:49:24.209 there's any conflict based on what I could find at this 02:49:24.209 --> 02:49:25.520 moment and the fourth 02:49:25.520 --> 02:49:27.600 Monday I don't think they meet every single month but the 02:49:27.600 --> 02:49:28.280 zoning Board of 02:49:28.280 --> 02:49:32.899 Adjustment meets on those fourth Monday so I think those 02:49:32.899 --> 02:49:34.479 are more ad hoc but 02:49:34.479 --> 02:49:37.379 they may have a more of a something schedule on a periodic 02:49:37.379 --> 02:49:38.479 basis but just to 02:49:38.479 --> 02:49:41.450 make you aware of just a little bit of the conflicts that 02:49:41.450 --> 02:49:42.959 may occur doing a 02:49:42.959 --> 02:49:46.840 moving it to again not dissuading you just letting you know 02:49:46.840 --> 02:49:47.920 that just the 02:49:47.920 --> 02:49:51.399 scheduling issues - right was there any is there any 02:49:51.399 --> 02:49:53.079 problem with bringing it 02:49:53.079 --> 02:49:55.280 back to where we used to have the meetings is it because we 02:49:55.280 --> 02:49:55.799 don't have 02:49:55.799 --> 02:49:59.520 media in there how hard would it be to include media in 02:49:59.520 --> 02:50:01.559 there we didn't look at 02:50:01.559 --> 02:50:06.200 that but I believe it was brought here because hey it's a 02:50:06.200 --> 02:50:07.959 hall it's a visible 02:50:07.959 --> 02:50:11.409 icon and you know you can easily get to again the 02:50:11.409 --> 02:50:13.479 multimedia assets of it as far 02:50:13.479 --> 02:50:17.379 as the connectivity and the use of the cameras and so just 02:50:17.379 --> 02:50:18.239 to make it available 02:50:18.239 --> 02:50:22.700 to the viewing public is why what about the downstairs room 02:50:22.700 --> 02:50:23.479 there's no there's 02:50:23.479 --> 02:50:29.159 no man chambers council chambers does chambers does I had 02:50:29.159 --> 02:50:30.760 not not checked that 02:50:30.760 --> 02:50:39.639 schedule so I get this an option I mean my opinion personal 02:50:39.639 --> 02:50:41.399 opinion is I would 02:50:41.399 --> 02:50:44.920 like to see us do more evening meetings yeah I don't know 02:50:44.920 --> 02:50:45.680 if that's every other 02:50:45.680 --> 02:50:48.860 you know once a month if we have two a month one is gonna 02:50:48.860 --> 02:50:50.479 be in the evening one 02:50:50.479 --> 02:50:54.000 in the morning I know we've had evening meetings in the 02:50:54.000 --> 02:50:56.719 past to accommodate 02:50:56.719 --> 02:51:03.479 public comment when we especially when public comment on 02:51:03.479 --> 02:51:04.399 transmission line 02:51:04.399 --> 02:51:08.649 locations or substation locations things like that so I 02:51:08.649 --> 02:51:14.559 think it's again just 02:51:14.559 --> 02:51:16.530 because it's the way we've always done it doesn't mean it's 02:51:16.530 --> 02:51:18.159 the right way and so 02:51:18.159 --> 02:51:22.879 I like the idea of an evening meeting if we can find on a 02:51:22.879 --> 02:51:24.559 regular basis would it 02:51:24.559 --> 02:51:28.889 be the fourth Monday or the second Monday of every month I 02:51:28.889 --> 02:51:29.799 'm all for it I 02:51:29.799 --> 02:51:32.600 don't know but you said the third Monday was the one that 02:51:32.600 --> 02:51:34.120 was open in here as far 02:51:34.120 --> 02:51:40.540 as I can tell second and fourth Monday is our that's 02:51:40.540 --> 02:51:41.360 correct and we have no 02:51:41.360 --> 02:51:50.120 bumping rights or anything yeah what about does any group 02:51:50.120 --> 02:51:51.200 or I mean you said 02:51:51.200 --> 02:51:55.290 you don't know so that you didn't check into that but just 02:51:55.290 --> 02:51:57.680 offhand if there's no 02:51:57.680 --> 02:52:03.290 group that meets in council chambers on Monday evenings at 02:52:03.290 --> 02:52:05.040 all there then maybe 02:52:05.040 --> 02:52:10.290 just consistently Monday evenings in council chambers as a 02:52:10.290 --> 02:52:11.920 I'm just throwing 02:52:11.920 --> 02:52:16.399 that out there yeah and when we're talking about evening 02:52:16.399 --> 02:52:16.879 are we talking 02:52:16.879 --> 02:52:21.209 about five o'clock or are we talking about four o'clock or 02:52:21.209 --> 02:52:22.680 three o'clock what 02:52:22.680 --> 02:52:29.399 do we it came out of part of the interviewing process where 02:52:29.399 --> 02:52:30.159 you know we 02:52:30.159 --> 02:52:36.100 the community needs to have an opportunity yeah yeah I just 02:52:36.100 --> 02:52:36.559 wanted more 02:52:36.559 --> 02:52:41.969 often a little bit better well just a great for a good 02:52:41.969 --> 02:52:42.920 historic landmark 02:52:42.920 --> 02:52:46.780 committee I think they start their agendas at 5 traffic 02:52:46.780 --> 02:52:48.079 safety is at 530 02:52:48.079 --> 02:52:53.389 530 traffic safety so council meeting starts at 630 on 02:52:53.389 --> 02:52:54.319 Tuesday nights but 02:52:54.319 --> 02:52:56.969 they have work sessions start a lot earlier than that on 02:52:56.969 --> 02:52:57.920 those Tuesdays so 02:52:57.920 --> 02:53:01.889 it's really more up to the up to the board's call and your 02:53:01.889 --> 02:53:03.639 availability as to 02:53:03.639 --> 02:53:09.049 when you'd like to do those yeah yeah I would advocate for 02:53:09.049 --> 02:53:11.319 a time closer to you 02:53:11.319 --> 02:53:15.870 know 630 so just so that we know working people I mean 02:53:15.870 --> 02:53:16.760 everybody has different 02:53:16.760 --> 02:53:20.180 hours some people work nights but you know so that most 02:53:20.180 --> 02:53:21.719 working people can you 02:53:21.719 --> 02:53:26.329 have a commute I shouldn't even say most some more than 02:53:26.329 --> 02:53:28.200 otherwise would be able 02:53:28.200 --> 02:53:41.100 to attend 6 6 30 time frame okay I like six yeah so okay so 02:53:41.100 --> 02:53:42.120 we'll look at that 02:53:42.120 --> 02:53:45.379 time are you wanting to do the one in the morning one in 02:53:45.379 --> 02:53:46.719 the evening or all in 02:53:46.719 --> 02:53:50.750 the evenings or which I like alternating I think it gives 02:53:50.750 --> 02:53:52.319 more more opportunity 02:53:52.319 --> 02:53:56.399 for people to see it live or come here you know in person 02:53:56.399 --> 02:53:58.840 if you alternate I 02:53:58.840 --> 02:54:03.090 personally don't want to see any change at all but I'll go 02:54:03.090 --> 02:54:03.920 with the group on 02:54:03.920 --> 02:54:09.889 this you know and also they might not want to meet me at 6 02:54:09.889 --> 02:54:10.639 o'clock 02:54:15.079 --> 02:54:20.360 of when we do have an anticipated public comment items that 02:54:20.360 --> 02:54:21.680 it can be scheduled 02:54:21.680 --> 02:54:26.739 specifically in the evening because we have had public 02:54:26.739 --> 02:54:29.319 comment items at 9 o'clock 02:54:29.319 --> 02:54:35.110 on Monday and we don't get a lot of public comment so so we 02:54:35.110 --> 02:54:37.159 'll look at 02:54:37.159 --> 02:54:41.120 having again that you meet on the second and fourth Mondays 02:54:41.120 --> 02:54:43.440 so again just trying 02:54:43.440 --> 02:54:46.780 to narrow down this focus here so we know what to do would 02:54:46.780 --> 02:54:47.639 it be safe to say 02:54:47.639 --> 02:54:50.440 that we'll do the first meeting of the month in the morning 02:54:50.440 --> 02:54:51.299 and the second 02:54:51.299 --> 02:54:54.840 meeting of the month in the evening yeah is that okay yeah 02:54:54.840 --> 02:54:55.760 okay and then we'll 02:54:55.760 --> 02:54:58.799 look at see what's available whether it's here I know there 02:54:58.799 --> 02:54:59.479 's conflicts 02:54:59.479 --> 02:55:02.020 already but we'll see what's available here if this is not 02:55:02.020 --> 02:55:03.200 available at all then 02:55:03.200 --> 02:55:07.340 then we'll look at the chamber council chambers for the 02:55:07.340 --> 02:55:09.639 evening meeting on that 02:55:09.639 --> 02:55:14.040 second sure yes sir and then have the meetings here in the 02:55:14.040 --> 02:55:14.639 morning is that 02:55:14.639 --> 02:55:27.860 okay yes yeah anything else on this item I guess I'm a 02:55:27.860 --> 02:55:29.079 little concerned about the 02:55:29.079 --> 02:55:32.110 impact on staff who already spent a lot of time up here in 02:55:32.110 --> 02:55:33.319 the evenings and the 02:55:33.319 --> 02:55:39.469 cost of possibly adding another business meeting to that 02:55:39.469 --> 02:55:40.799 has been a discussion 02:55:40.799 --> 02:55:46.090 internally but I think we can work around that certainly 02:55:46.090 --> 02:55:47.760 the working through on 02:55:47.760 --> 02:55:50.659 the video side of it just the actual recording of it there 02:55:50.659 --> 02:55:51.559 is a that's just 02:55:51.559 --> 02:55:53.920 another meeting added to that staff and then we had the 02:55:53.920 --> 02:55:54.840 recording secretary 02:55:54.840 --> 02:55:57.360 component so there may need to be some adjustments 02:55:57.360 --> 02:55:58.600 internally as far as how 02:55:58.600 --> 02:56:02.590 that's done and some assignments or or how it's done or who 02:56:02.590 --> 02:56:04.360 is done by so so 02:56:04.360 --> 02:56:07.780 we'll have some conversations internally kind of try to try 02:56:07.780 --> 02:56:09.559 to make sure that no 02:56:09.559 --> 02:56:13.010 single person or single persons are are overburdened 02:56:13.010 --> 02:56:15.000 because that is that can be 02:56:15.000 --> 02:56:17.280 quite burdensome especially if the same person is doing 02:56:17.280 --> 02:56:18.680 multiple committee 02:56:18.680 --> 02:56:20.659 meetings because there's they're really a part of that 02:56:20.659 --> 02:56:22.280 recording secretary or the 02:56:22.280 --> 02:56:27.889 as far as the videography and I don't want to look at Kim 02:56:27.889 --> 02:56:28.840 because we'll work 02:56:28.840 --> 02:56:32.290 through that and make sure that that not one person is over 02:56:32.290 --> 02:56:33.520 burdened. 02:56:33.520 --> 02:56:39.399 You're right. You're in a direct line of sight. You know 02:56:39.399 --> 02:56:41.319 Charlie if you have more things on consent 02:56:41.319 --> 02:56:49.239 agenda you don't need staff here. Anything else? Thank you. 02:56:52.399 --> 02:56:54.399 Okay. 02:56:56.719 --> 02:57:01.129 And actually there's no action item coming out of the 02:57:01.129 --> 02:57:03.799 closed meeting so if 02:57:03.799 --> 02:57:07.239 we can move that to the end of this meeting go through our 02:57:07.239 --> 02:57:08.159 regular agenda at 02:57:08.159 --> 02:57:13.180 this time so that anyone who does not need to be here for 02:57:13.180 --> 02:57:15.040 the closed meeting 02:57:15.040 --> 02:57:21.190 can leave after that so all right so we'll open the regular 02:57:21.190 --> 02:57:23.360 meeting now at 02:57:23.360 --> 02:57:31.440 1159 and first item items for individual consideration 02:57:31.440 --> 02:57:33.399 first item A which is 02:57:33.399 --> 02:57:36.840 consider approval of the Public Utility Board meeting 02:57:36.840 --> 02:57:38.440 minutes of October 23rd 02:57:38.440 --> 02:57:47.239 2017. Are there any comments questions changes additions 02:57:47.239 --> 02:57:50.719 subtractions nothing 02:57:50.719 --> 02:57:56.440 hearing none those minutes then will be approved as 02:57:56.440 --> 02:58:00.280 submitted. Item B is to 02:58:00.280 --> 02:58:03.719 receive a report hold a discussion and provide staff with 02:58:03.719 --> 02:58:04.239 direction. We need to 02:58:04.239 --> 02:58:08.569 make a motion sorry. We need to make a motion to approve. 02:58:08.569 --> 02:58:09.360 We have it in the 02:58:09.360 --> 02:58:11.989 past. I don't have to have motions and seconds and all that 02:58:11.989 --> 02:58:13.920 . Okay. As long as there's no 02:58:13.920 --> 02:58:20.040 changes. Okay. Yeah correct me if I'm wrong. 02:58:24.040 --> 02:58:31.040 It's kind of approval by acclamation. Item B is to receive 02:58:31.040 --> 02:58:32.319 a report hold a discussion 02:58:32.319 --> 02:58:35.760 and provide staff with direction concerning the approval of 02:58:35.760 --> 02:58:36.280 a public 02:58:36.280 --> 02:58:40.190 works contract for the Cooper Creek interceptor 1 & 2 02:58:40.190 --> 02:58:42.000 project consisting of 02:58:42.000 --> 02:58:46.110 the replacement of approximately 7,000 feet of 21 inch and 02:58:46.110 --> 02:58:47.159 24 inch clay 02:58:47.159 --> 02:58:52.569 sanitary sewer with new 84 inch fiberglass reinforced pipe 02:58:52.569 --> 02:58:53.360 and 30 inch 02:58:53.360 --> 02:58:59.120 polymerized vinyl chloride sanitary sewer along Cooper 02:58:59.120 --> 02:58:59.760 Creek. 02:59:03.079 --> 02:59:06.549 All right good morning board. Good morning. I'm Todd Estes. 02:59:06.549 --> 02:59:10.200 I'm the City Engineers. My first 02:59:10.200 --> 02:59:13.649 time to be here in front of you so I'm a little excited. 02:59:13.649 --> 02:59:15.079 Good to see you all this 02:59:15.079 --> 02:59:20.889 morning. Cooper Creek interceptor 2. This is phases 1 & 2. 02:59:20.889 --> 02:59:22.040 Phase 3 was 02:59:22.040 --> 02:59:24.399 actually done five or six years ago and it sounds a little 02:59:24.399 --> 02:59:25.079 odd that we're 02:59:25.079 --> 02:59:28.579 working backwards in the sequence here but for whatever 02:59:28.579 --> 02:59:29.840 reason that was the 02:59:29.840 --> 02:59:33.360 process and progress through the design of this project. 02:59:33.360 --> 02:59:35.120 Phase 1 & Phase 2 02:59:35.120 --> 02:59:39.450 closes out the long-term needs what we need for this Cooper 02:59:39.450 --> 02:59:41.360 Creek interceptor. 02:59:41.360 --> 02:59:47.079 We have before you for consideration a contract with Condi 02:59:47.079 --> 02:59:47.840 Construction who was 02:59:47.840 --> 02:59:51.440 the low bidder lowest qualified bidder and responsive bid 02:59:51.440 --> 02:59:52.959 der at 3.1 million 02:59:52.959 --> 02:59:57.700 dollars. You can see here on the map that roughly the 02:59:57.700 --> 02:59:59.079 limits of phase 1 & 2 02:59:59.079 --> 03:00:02.659 extends from Old North all the way on the top of the screen 03:00:02.659 --> 03:00:04.319 there under loop 03:00:04.319 --> 03:00:07.620 288 down under University Drive and almost over to Promont 03:00:07.620 --> 03:00:08.760 ous Parkway. There's 03:00:08.760 --> 03:00:11.889 a couple of different pipe sizes in this and we'll get into 03:00:11.889 --> 03:00:13.079 why that's important 03:00:13.079 --> 03:00:20.000 here shortly. Existing interceptor is undersized to meet 03:00:20.000 --> 03:00:20.959 today's demand and 03:00:20.959 --> 03:00:24.000 for the future demand. So what this actually does is it 03:00:24.000 --> 03:00:24.799 increases the 03:00:24.799 --> 03:00:28.530 capacity of what we can provide for the future. It's also 03:00:28.530 --> 03:00:29.479 replacing 50 year old 03:00:29.479 --> 03:00:32.569 infrastructure with infrastructure that should last us from 03:00:32.569 --> 03:00:33.319 now and into the 03:00:33.319 --> 03:00:36.870 future. This project will provide the capacity for the 03:00:36.870 --> 03:00:37.879 ultimate development of 03:00:37.879 --> 03:00:41.440 this entire service area so as the entire area starts to 03:00:41.440 --> 03:00:42.719 develop more people 03:00:42.719 --> 03:00:46.569 come in more business come in we do have the capacity here 03:00:46.569 --> 03:00:50.239 to handle it. I love 03:00:50.239 --> 03:00:54.100 this mouse. Just briefly we had eight respondents you'll 03:00:54.100 --> 03:00:55.399 notice seven on the 03:00:55.399 --> 03:00:58.479 list here these are the seven of the eight that are 03:00:58.479 --> 03:00:59.479 considered responsive 03:00:59.479 --> 03:01:03.879 bidders. What that means is is they actually put in all the 03:01:03.879 --> 03:01:04.559 requirements 03:01:04.559 --> 03:01:08.209 that we asked for as part of the construction package. When 03:01:08.209 --> 03:01:09.079 we send out to 03:01:09.079 --> 03:01:12.110 bid we told them here are the qualifications that you need 03:01:12.110 --> 03:01:12.799 to have to 03:01:12.799 --> 03:01:15.969 be able to do a project with pipe of this size. We've got 03:01:15.969 --> 03:01:17.120 30 inch pipe for the 03:01:17.120 --> 03:01:20.010 majority of it then we go to an 84 inch pipe. So it's a 03:01:20.010 --> 03:01:20.879 very large pipe 03:01:20.879 --> 03:01:28.879 especially for sanitary sewer line. The apparent low bidder 03:01:28.879 --> 03:01:30.120 that is the one that 03:01:30.120 --> 03:01:33.030 you don't see on the list that person did not meet all the 03:01:33.030 --> 03:01:34.040 qualifications at 03:01:34.040 --> 03:01:36.659 least they didn't include in the submittal package and then 03:01:36.659 --> 03:01:37.159 as we went 03:01:37.159 --> 03:01:39.950 through and we talked to the bidder purchasing department 03:01:39.950 --> 03:01:40.920 followed up with 03:01:40.920 --> 03:01:43.229 them said want to make sure that we just didn't miss 03:01:43.229 --> 03:01:44.399 something with this because 03:01:44.399 --> 03:01:47.149 you are the apparent low bidder they still did not supply 03:01:47.149 --> 03:01:47.840 sufficient 03:01:47.840 --> 03:01:52.520 experience to show us they met the qualifications. 03:01:54.120 --> 03:01:57.069 Condi construction company then by default became the next 03:01:57.069 --> 03:01:58.239 lowest bidder. 03:01:58.239 --> 03:02:02.840 Their increase in cost was about $150,000 over what the 03:02:02.840 --> 03:02:04.120 original apparent low 03:02:04.120 --> 03:02:08.299 bidder was. Still all of this was considerably lower than 03:02:08.299 --> 03:02:08.840 what the 03:02:08.840 --> 03:02:11.159 original engineers estimate for this project was was just 03:02:11.159 --> 03:02:11.940 approaching four 03:02:11.940 --> 03:02:16.629 million dollars so we're a good step below that. Our 03:02:16.629 --> 03:02:18.760 intended construction 03:02:18.760 --> 03:02:22.409 start is January of 2018 we expect it to go longer than no 03:02:22.409 --> 03:02:23.639 longer than about nine 03:02:23.639 --> 03:02:27.180 months. A lot of this is primarily through open field so we 03:02:27.180 --> 03:02:27.840 don't have a 03:02:27.840 --> 03:02:32.760 lot of constraints and restrictions that will slow us down. 03:02:32.760 --> 03:02:34.760 In short keeping this 03:02:34.760 --> 03:02:37.459 brief I'll be glad to answer any questions but staff does 03:02:37.459 --> 03:02:38.040 recommend you 03:02:38.040 --> 03:02:41.520 approve the contract condi construction for 3.1 million 03:02:41.520 --> 03:02:43.799 dollars. Any questions? 03:02:43.799 --> 03:02:49.959 Questions? I want to hear more about the 84 inch pipe. In 03:02:49.959 --> 03:02:53.399 what vein sir? Well it's quite an 03:02:53.399 --> 03:02:56.840 increase from what's there now. Seven times existing 03:02:56.840 --> 03:02:57.540 capacity and you're 03:02:57.540 --> 03:03:00.959 connecting a 30 inch to it? Yes sir I said there's a 03:03:00.959 --> 03:03:01.840 variety of connections 03:03:01.840 --> 03:03:05.260 but we do have both PS Aurora and Jim Wilder the design 03:03:05.260 --> 03:03:06.040 engineer here to 03:03:06.040 --> 03:03:12.909 answer the technical questions. I'm Jim Wilder I'm with the 03:03:12.909 --> 03:03:14.600 engineering 03:03:14.600 --> 03:03:19.149 department. The reason we have the 84 inch pipe is we're 03:03:19.149 --> 03:03:20.120 actually using it for 03:03:20.120 --> 03:03:23.790 storage. The 84 inch pipe gives us about a half a million 03:03:23.790 --> 03:03:25.799 gallons worth of inline 03:03:25.799 --> 03:03:31.409 storage to allow us to store the peak flow during the large 03:03:31.409 --> 03:03:32.760 rain events and 03:03:32.760 --> 03:03:36.299 that way we don't actually have to build additional 03:03:36.299 --> 03:03:38.239 infrastructure at the Cooper 03:03:38.239 --> 03:03:42.409 Creek lift station and downstream. We figured that it ended 03:03:42.409 --> 03:03:43.600 up probably being 03:03:43.600 --> 03:03:47.639 about a $800,000 savings to the city to do it that way as 03:03:47.639 --> 03:03:48.600 opposed to building 03:03:48.600 --> 03:03:53.260 additional infrastructure downstream. Thank you. And this 03:03:53.260 --> 03:03:54.840 as far as the use of 03:03:54.840 --> 03:04:02.100 the storage area is this the same drainage system where all 03:04:02.100 --> 03:04:02.600 the flooding 03:04:02.600 --> 03:04:08.750 was back in the big rain when they're well 2007 I think it 03:04:08.750 --> 03:04:12.520 was. This is this is 03:04:12.520 --> 03:04:15.319 what backed into the neighborhoods because it got it couldn 03:04:15.319 --> 03:04:16.000 't handle the 03:04:16.000 --> 03:04:22.489 flow. Yes the the Cooper Creek basin flooded of course the 03:04:22.489 --> 03:04:23.639 concrete basin 03:04:23.639 --> 03:04:28.040 also flooded I mean they all flooded but yes there were 03:04:28.040 --> 03:04:30.000 pretty severe flooding 03:04:30.000 --> 03:04:35.069 behind the area that's just north of University and the 03:04:35.069 --> 03:04:37.040 subdivision west of 03:04:37.040 --> 03:04:42.559 Old North or east of Old North. Okay thank you. 03:04:43.879 --> 03:04:47.559 Just go back to the numbers. Yes ma'am. What was Atkins 03:04:47.559 --> 03:04:50.879 thinking? They didn't want 03:04:50.879 --> 03:04:54.899 the job huh? Must be busy. I mean I like it when they're it 03:04:54.899 --> 03:04:55.959 's fairly compressed 03:04:55.959 --> 03:04:59.559 that means you had a you know yes good bids. It's very 03:04:59.559 --> 03:05:00.680 compressed throughout 03:05:00.680 --> 03:05:03.920 the top six there. Yeah Atkins was a little bit outside 03:05:03.920 --> 03:05:06.840 there yes ma'am. Okay. 03:05:06.840 --> 03:05:13.469 Any questions? Questions? Comments? No. This is an action 03:05:13.469 --> 03:05:14.639 item so we need a motion on 03:05:14.639 --> 03:05:19.250 this item. I recommend approval. Second. We have a motion 03:05:19.250 --> 03:05:21.000 and a second to approve. 03:05:21.000 --> 03:05:27.719 Further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? 03:05:27.719 --> 03:05:30.399 Same sign? Motion passes. 03:05:30.399 --> 03:05:34.659 Item C is to receive report, hold discussion, and provide 03:05:34.659 --> 03:05:36.000 staff with direction 03:05:36.000 --> 03:05:39.420 concerning the approval of professional services agreement 03:05:39.420 --> 03:05:40.280 for engineering 03:05:40.280 --> 03:05:43.729 design services related to the design bid phase and 03:05:43.729 --> 03:05:45.440 construction services for 03:05:45.440 --> 03:05:49.399 the Lake Lulz water treatment plant phase two 03:05:49.399 --> 03:05:52.959 rehabilitation project. Tim 03:05:52.959 --> 03:05:59.360 Fisher. Good afternoon. I'll go over this item. 03:06:04.479 --> 03:06:07.469 My intent was to have this presentation in the backup so I 03:06:07.469 --> 03:06:09.399 'm sorry but we'll go 03:06:09.399 --> 03:06:12.040 over real quick. 03:06:16.440 --> 03:06:19.889 Make sure okay. Believe it or not this project actually 03:06:19.889 --> 03:06:22.840 started a little over 03:06:22.840 --> 03:06:26.639 a decade ago when we did our preliminary design evaluation 03:06:26.639 --> 03:06:28.280 for the Lake Louisville 03:06:28.280 --> 03:06:32.670 plant. We hired Malcolm Perney at that time to look over 03:06:32.670 --> 03:06:34.479 all the priorities for 03:06:34.479 --> 03:06:34.479 doing work at the plant. We did the majority of those with 03:06:34.479 --> 03:06:42.120 our 2007 upgrade. 03:06:42.120 --> 03:06:46.069 That project actually took a fair amount of time to get 03:06:46.069 --> 03:06:49.040 designed, get built. I was 03:06:49.040 --> 03:06:52.489 about 32 million dollars worth of improvements. Very 03:06:52.489 --> 03:06:53.799 focused on the 03:06:53.799 --> 03:06:58.639 process, upgrading the process, and then also modernizing 03:06:58.639 --> 03:07:02.799 the equipment. So this 03:07:02.799 --> 03:07:07.129 goes over a listing of all the improvements that were done 03:07:07.129 --> 03:07:07.760 a part of 03:07:07.760 --> 03:07:14.059 that project. That one was completed about 2014. So we've 03:07:14.059 --> 03:07:15.440 had an operational now 03:07:15.440 --> 03:07:19.840 for a few years. Major work on almost all the treatment 03:07:19.840 --> 03:07:22.840 units and processes. These 03:07:22.840 --> 03:07:26.799 are some of the examples of some of the work that was done. 03:07:26.799 --> 03:07:28.479 The one in the upper 03:07:28.479 --> 03:07:31.930 left is the ozone contactor. So adding ozone to the 03:07:31.930 --> 03:07:33.680 treatment process for 03:07:33.680 --> 03:07:37.200 consistency of treatment and regulatory compliance was a 03:07:37.200 --> 03:07:38.399 big component of that 03:07:38.399 --> 03:07:48.940 project. Along with revamping the flocculation sediment 03:07:48.940 --> 03:07:50.559 ation and filters. So 03:07:50.559 --> 03:07:54.290 a lot of heavy lifting and upgrading the plant occurred in 03:07:54.290 --> 03:07:57.479 that. Phase two upgrades 03:07:57.479 --> 03:08:03.129 was budgeted not too long ago. We basically wanted to pick 03:08:03.129 --> 03:08:04.360 up where the 03:08:04.360 --> 03:08:08.520 other project left off. We had actually gone 23 years at 03:08:08.520 --> 03:08:09.920 the old facility before 03:08:09.920 --> 03:08:13.829 we did major capitalization. And it's a lengthy process to 03:08:13.829 --> 03:08:14.760 go through the 03:08:14.760 --> 03:08:18.420 planning and the implementation of that. One of the key 03:08:18.420 --> 03:08:19.920 areas that didn't make 03:08:19.920 --> 03:08:24.319 the cut the last go-around was the motor control center. 03:08:24.319 --> 03:08:26.079 Our intent was to do that. 03:08:26.079 --> 03:08:31.030 But we ran into some cost management complications and we 03:08:31.030 --> 03:08:32.719 really needed to put 03:08:32.719 --> 03:08:36.270 that in an exterior building. And then that became 03:08:36.270 --> 03:08:37.920 something that we didn't feel 03:08:37.920 --> 03:08:40.540 we could tackle on the original budget. So we're trying to 03:08:40.540 --> 03:08:41.360 do that now in the 03:08:41.360 --> 03:08:46.799 phase two upgrade. We also want to deal with the server 03:08:46.799 --> 03:08:48.159 that we have for our 03:08:48.159 --> 03:08:52.000 SCADA system. Our SCADA system server has been in a closet 03:08:52.000 --> 03:08:53.520 from day one. We're 03:08:53.520 --> 03:08:57.120 going to try to move that upstairs to what is now a 03:08:57.120 --> 03:08:59.200 training room and then try 03:08:59.200 --> 03:09:02.149 to provide that type of space in the new electrical 03:09:02.149 --> 03:09:03.440 building with the motor 03:09:03.440 --> 03:09:07.159 control center. So that's a big piece of it. We have a 03:09:07.159 --> 03:09:08.559 variety of other things 03:09:08.559 --> 03:09:12.520 relating to flow meters and polymer feed equipment and some 03:09:12.520 --> 03:09:13.280 raw water pump 03:09:13.280 --> 03:09:18.719 station improvements. That's a picture of the original 03:09:18.719 --> 03:09:21.079 motor control center. It was 03:09:21.079 --> 03:09:26.969 actually revamped by staff in the mid 90s. So we've been 03:09:26.969 --> 03:09:28.200 able to keep that 03:09:28.200 --> 03:09:31.770 motor control center functioning through a major rebuild, 03:09:31.770 --> 03:09:33.319 but that was quite some 03:09:33.319 --> 03:09:35.950 time ago as well. So it's time to kind of replace that 03:09:35.950 --> 03:09:37.879 equipment. It's pushing 60 03:09:37.879 --> 03:09:47.579 years old. Along with this project we had a zebra mussel 03:09:47.579 --> 03:09:49.639 infestation in both lakes 03:09:49.639 --> 03:09:53.430 that captured a lot of our attention initially. We went 03:09:53.430 --> 03:09:54.399 through a zebra 03:09:54.399 --> 03:09:58.729 control management preliminary design study that did 03:09:58.729 --> 03:10:00.600 involve Arcadis. We are 03:10:00.600 --> 03:10:04.090 now moving into the capital stages of that. We felt that 03:10:04.090 --> 03:10:05.479 this was similar work 03:10:05.479 --> 03:10:09.389 and so we incorporated it into, we've actually got three 03:10:09.389 --> 03:10:11.280 projects, zebra mussel 03:10:11.280 --> 03:10:15.319 control at both facilities, Ray Robertson Lake Louisville 03:10:15.319 --> 03:10:16.680 on the raw water side 03:10:16.680 --> 03:10:23.120 plus the phase two upgrades at the Louisville plant. I 03:10:23.120 --> 03:10:25.360 think this picture 03:10:25.360 --> 03:10:29.840 shows some of our early discovery at the low spot. That's 03:10:29.840 --> 03:10:31.360 actually not a zebra 03:10:31.360 --> 03:10:35.370 mussel infestation. That's where the zebra mussel shells 03:10:35.370 --> 03:10:37.760 end up and accumulate. 03:10:37.760 --> 03:10:43.000 We've also showing them within our raw water, or excuse me, 03:10:43.000 --> 03:10:44.319 our pre-ozone 03:10:44.319 --> 03:10:47.770 contact rep at Ray Robertson. So some of that debris gets 03:10:47.770 --> 03:10:49.000 moved in there and so 03:10:49.000 --> 03:10:52.440 those become things that we have to periodically physically 03:10:52.440 --> 03:10:53.079 remove and what 03:10:53.079 --> 03:10:56.520 we're trying to do is use chemical treatment processes to 03:10:56.520 --> 03:10:57.120 prevent that 03:10:57.120 --> 03:11:02.409 infestation to begin with. So this is a summary of where we 03:11:02.409 --> 03:11:03.879 were from a budget 03:11:03.879 --> 03:11:08.799 standpoint as far as the ten million dollars for the Louis 03:11:08.799 --> 03:11:09.440 ville water 03:11:09.440 --> 03:11:13.629 treatment plant plus the zebra mussel control measures. So 03:11:13.629 --> 03:11:15.239 we had about 1.7 03:11:15.239 --> 03:11:20.469 million budgeted for engineering and we had about a little 03:11:20.469 --> 03:11:22.239 shy of 16 million of 03:11:22.239 --> 03:11:28.600 capital. We went through an RFQ process looking at nine 03:11:28.600 --> 03:11:31.079 engineering firms. We 03:11:31.079 --> 03:11:34.520 actually started off with an SOQ which is an acronym for 03:11:34.520 --> 03:11:35.000 statement of 03:11:35.000 --> 03:11:38.440 qualifications who are out there looking for who are the 03:11:38.440 --> 03:11:39.719 engineering firms that 03:11:39.719 --> 03:11:45.329 we want to solicit proposals from. We basically had four 03:11:45.329 --> 03:11:47.079 responses from that 03:11:47.079 --> 03:11:51.500 statement of qualifications. We issued an RFQ and got 03:11:51.500 --> 03:11:53.600 responses from three. A 03:11:53.600 --> 03:11:56.700 couple of them did partner, Fries and Nichols partnered 03:11:56.700 --> 03:11:57.959 with Arcadis and they 03:11:57.959 --> 03:12:01.659 were the firm that we selected. Fries and Nichols designed 03:12:01.659 --> 03:12:03.280 our Lake Ray Roberts 03:12:03.280 --> 03:12:09.610 plant, had some design prior at the Louisville plant and 03:12:09.610 --> 03:12:11.319 then Arcadis was 03:12:11.319 --> 03:12:15.969 brought in as their sub-consultant to help with the zebra 03:12:15.969 --> 03:12:19.799 mussel design. So this 03:12:19.799 --> 03:12:23.639 scope includes final design, bid phase and basic 03:12:23.639 --> 03:12:25.799 construction services. It 03:12:25.799 --> 03:12:29.459 doesn't carry full resident rep through construction. At 03:12:29.459 --> 03:12:30.479 this point we're not 03:12:30.479 --> 03:12:34.110 necessarily sure we need that level of support but it does 03:12:34.110 --> 03:12:35.399 carry construction 03:12:35.399 --> 03:12:40.420 phase services through the approximate 18 month schedule 03:12:40.420 --> 03:12:43.479 for the project. This 03:12:43.479 --> 03:12:47.809 is where we started. We had a fee of about just shy of 2 03:12:47.809 --> 03:12:49.000 million. We're a 03:12:49.000 --> 03:12:52.450 little over budget on that so we went through a negotiation 03:12:52.450 --> 03:12:54.239 process. We started 03:12:54.239 --> 03:12:58.100 zooming in on the construction and the construction budget 03:12:58.100 --> 03:12:58.959 so we had some 03:12:58.959 --> 03:13:02.110 issues there that we had to trim some of the scope items 03:13:02.110 --> 03:13:02.680 out of the 03:13:02.680 --> 03:13:07.959 construction budget to get it down to budget level and then 03:13:07.959 --> 03:13:09.559 this is where we 03:13:09.559 --> 03:13:14.600 landed on the engineering fees. So we had just a little shy 03:13:14.600 --> 03:13:16.120 of about four hundred 03:13:16.120 --> 03:13:19.020 and seventy thousand dollars worth of fee negotiation 03:13:19.020 --> 03:13:20.559 through this process. We got 03:13:20.559 --> 03:13:24.360 this added level that we feel is more consistent with our 03:13:24.360 --> 03:13:25.520 budget and what we 03:13:25.520 --> 03:13:31.959 think is a reasonable cost of pay. This was the engineers 03:13:31.959 --> 03:13:35.120 estimate that came up 03:13:35.120 --> 03:13:39.719 just 114 million so we're within budget on the engineering 03:13:39.719 --> 03:13:40.959 estimate going into 03:13:40.959 --> 03:13:49.709 the design and I'll just open it up to questions at this 03:13:49.709 --> 03:13:50.959 point. 03:13:50.959 --> 03:13:55.879 I'll go back a couple slides. Sure. Which one? Right there. 03:13:55.879 --> 03:13:57.520 Okay. What is the normal 03:13:57.520 --> 03:14:02.000 percentage of engineering cost to construction? It's a good 03:14:02.000 --> 03:14:03.680 question. What we 03:14:03.680 --> 03:14:09.440 found from our experience at the Lake Louisville phase two 03:14:09.440 --> 03:14:10.299 or phase one 03:14:10.299 --> 03:14:15.909 upgrade we were just a little over 11% of construction. We 03:14:15.909 --> 03:14:17.639 also looked at a 03:14:17.639 --> 03:14:23.479 consultant benchmarking service that primarily focuses on 03:14:23.479 --> 03:14:25.319 consultants and how 03:14:25.319 --> 03:14:29.250 they are seeing what the market is for fees and we found 03:14:29.250 --> 03:14:30.840 similar numbers there. 03:14:30.840 --> 03:14:34.760 So our experience has been about 10% until you start 03:14:34.760 --> 03:14:35.920 getting into the 03:14:35.920 --> 03:14:38.440 construction phase component and that's gonna bump it up. 03:14:38.440 --> 03:14:41.959 Okay. Thank you. 03:14:44.239 --> 03:14:50.450 What is the length of time of the contract? We have in the 03:14:50.450 --> 03:14:53.479 schedule right now about 10 03:14:53.479 --> 03:14:57.809 months after we execute the contract to do the design phase 03:14:57.809 --> 03:14:59.639 . We have another 03:14:59.639 --> 03:15:03.770 three months go through the bid process and we have 18 03:15:03.770 --> 03:15:04.719 months for the 03:15:04.719 --> 03:15:07.440 construction and that's the preliminary schedule that we 03:15:07.440 --> 03:15:09.680 have right now. So it'll 03:15:09.680 --> 03:15:16.680 be approximately a three-year process. Three years. From 03:15:16.680 --> 03:15:16.680 start to finish. 03:15:17.680 --> 03:15:22.840 And this is like a not to exceed contract? This is a lump 03:15:22.840 --> 03:15:27.200 sum. What does that mean? 03:15:27.200 --> 03:15:30.989 It means they'll produce the scope and we will pay them 03:15:30.989 --> 03:15:33.440 this fee. Okay. Which is 03:15:33.440 --> 03:15:38.719 fairly common. Most the consultant contracts are lump sum. 03:15:39.680 --> 03:15:44.010 But still limited to? Still limited to. I mean it is what 03:15:44.010 --> 03:15:46.840 it is. It's not. It is a fixed fee contract. 03:15:46.840 --> 03:15:49.510 Any additional scope we would have to bring back to you? 03:15:49.510 --> 03:15:50.840 Yeah well yeah because 03:15:50.840 --> 03:15:54.290 we look at them where it's gonna cost so much an hour 03:15:54.290 --> 03:15:55.920 sometimes and not to 03:15:55.920 --> 03:15:58.370 exceed X amount but we don't know what scope of work is 03:15:58.370 --> 03:15:59.760 necessarily. Most 03:15:59.760 --> 03:16:05.219 consultants would prefer to work under a fixed fee lump sum 03:16:05.219 --> 03:16:06.559 basis and most of our 03:16:06.559 --> 03:16:11.700 contracts are lump sum particularly if you can define the 03:16:11.700 --> 03:16:13.120 scope well. Yeah. 03:16:15.120 --> 03:16:21.440 Okay other questions? Anybody? I'll just say I really 03:16:21.440 --> 03:16:22.479 appreciated the level of 03:16:22.479 --> 03:16:27.889 detail of the zebra muscle manual. I learned a lot about 03:16:27.889 --> 03:16:29.559 that and 03:16:29.559 --> 03:16:33.559 ended up finding it just really interesting so I appreciate 03:16:33.559 --> 03:16:34.280 that level 03:16:34.280 --> 03:16:39.440 of information. Tim has become a zebra muscle expert not by 03:16:39.440 --> 03:16:43.159 choice. Not a necessity. 03:16:43.159 --> 03:16:49.979 What we're finding is that the bloom initially tends to be 03:16:49.979 --> 03:16:50.600 a little worse 03:16:50.600 --> 03:16:55.920 than the ongoing but we still see that it's something that 03:16:55.920 --> 03:16:56.719 we need to put in 03:16:56.719 --> 03:17:00.969 systems in place so that we don't get a problem in our pipe 03:17:00.969 --> 03:17:01.680 systems in 03:17:01.680 --> 03:17:05.100 particular Lewisville because they're smaller diameter they 03:17:05.100 --> 03:17:06.280 're longer and we 03:17:06.280 --> 03:17:10.840 don't need debris accumulations in the low spots. 03:17:13.000 --> 03:17:19.540 Okay then is there a motion we need a motion then on item C 03:17:19.540 --> 03:17:20.200 ? 03:17:20.200 --> 03:17:25.760 Move approval. Second. I have a motion and a second for 03:17:25.760 --> 03:17:27.239 approval. Any further 03:17:27.239 --> 03:17:34.450 discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Same 03:17:34.450 --> 03:17:38.319 sign. Motion passes. Item D 03:17:38.319 --> 03:17:44.469 is our ACM update. Sure real quick excuse me in your agenda 03:17:44.469 --> 03:17:45.479 you have a number of 03:17:45.479 --> 03:17:50.790 articles that were provided to the board I believe one was 03:17:50.790 --> 03:17:52.639 asked to be added to 03:17:52.639 --> 03:17:55.440 the how to kill American solar that was asked by one of the 03:17:55.440 --> 03:17:56.479 board members to be 03:17:56.479 --> 03:18:00.469 placed and so that is on your on your list and the link in 03:18:00.469 --> 03:18:01.399 the agenda if you 03:18:01.399 --> 03:18:06.239 like go through that. Also on the matrix I believe we've 03:18:06.239 --> 03:18:06.799 covered just about 03:18:06.799 --> 03:18:09.770 everything that's been asked on the matrix I will ask that 03:18:09.770 --> 03:18:10.680 you look at item 03:18:10.680 --> 03:18:14.129 number 15 it showed that we would have something for you in 03:18:14.129 --> 03:18:15.600 November that 03:18:15.600 --> 03:18:17.600 should be December because there's only one meeting in the 03:18:17.600 --> 03:18:18.879 month of November so 03:18:18.879 --> 03:18:21.170 there's probably just a mistake on staff's part as far as 03:18:21.170 --> 03:18:21.920 thinking it was a 03:18:21.920 --> 03:18:26.250 second meeting but we'll bring the the billing issues on on 03:18:26.250 --> 03:18:28.559 your wastewater and 03:18:28.559 --> 03:18:32.319 the DME bill date change into your December board meeting 03:18:32.319 --> 03:18:34.200 so and then I 03:18:34.200 --> 03:18:39.319 think we also added a rules of procedures item number 16 to 03:18:39.319 --> 03:18:40.559 the matrix 03:18:40.559 --> 03:18:46.120 for future consideration. I think at a couple meetings ago 03:18:46.120 --> 03:18:47.239 I asked about the 03:18:47.239 --> 03:18:50.870 Tesla solar and if what whether or not we were going to see 03:18:50.870 --> 03:18:52.159 how that was going 03:18:52.159 --> 03:18:59.040 to impact us I don't know if anybody's been clamoring to do 03:18:59.040 --> 03:19:03.600 it but. Comments 03:19:03.600 --> 03:19:11.559 about the ACM updates? Yeah I had a comment and a request 03:19:11.559 --> 03:19:12.079 to better 03:19:12.079 --> 03:19:15.870 reiteration of the previous request about the the Puerto 03:19:15.870 --> 03:19:17.180 Rico item so I was 03:19:17.180 --> 03:19:23.709 the one who asked whether there was an interest among our 03:19:23.709 --> 03:19:25.520 any of our DME linemen 03:19:25.520 --> 03:19:32.110 to help get the power back on in Puerto Rico and while I 03:19:32.110 --> 03:19:34.520 really appreciate this 03:19:34.520 --> 03:19:39.930 this information provided about you know what what might be 03:19:39.930 --> 03:19:41.600 involved in that what 03:19:41.600 --> 03:19:46.059 the challenges would be it looks to me and correct me if I 03:19:46.059 --> 03:19:48.000 'm wrong that DME 03:19:48.000 --> 03:19:52.049 linemen still have yet to be surveyed as to you know 03:19:52.049 --> 03:19:53.600 whether there would be an 03:19:53.600 --> 03:19:58.229 any any interest in this and so of course I do understand 03:19:58.229 --> 03:20:00.239 reading this and 03:20:00.239 --> 03:20:03.479 just you know for the the public it says you know there 03:20:03.479 --> 03:20:04.680 there is a need for a 03:20:04.680 --> 03:20:09.290 team of about 20 line workers particularly on the island of 03:20:09.290 --> 03:20:09.799 St. 03:20:09.799 --> 03:20:13.600 John's but some of the crews are having to stay on on 03:20:13.600 --> 03:20:15.799 cruise ships and have to 03:20:15.799 --> 03:20:17.809 be shuttled to and from the island so there are those 03:20:17.809 --> 03:20:18.639 complications the 03:20:18.639 --> 03:20:21.219 commitment time for linemen crews is typically at least a 03:20:21.219 --> 03:20:22.319 30-day period and 03:20:22.319 --> 03:20:25.760 could be as long as six months so I would completely 03:20:25.760 --> 03:20:27.319 understand why somebody 03:20:27.319 --> 03:20:30.940 didn't you know if why somebody wouldn't want to volunteer 03:20:30.940 --> 03:20:32.879 for that but I could 03:20:32.879 --> 03:20:36.430 also understand why somebody might think that would be a 03:20:36.430 --> 03:20:37.319 really great 03:20:37.319 --> 03:20:41.729 opportunity to help out have an adventure you know when one 03:20:41.729 --> 03:20:42.479 person's 03:20:42.479 --> 03:20:45.540 nightmare you know 30 days on a cruise ship you know with a 03:20:45.540 --> 03:20:46.879 bunch of dudes you 03:20:46.879 --> 03:20:50.010 know some for some people that just be great you know great 03:20:50.010 --> 03:20:50.760 time and I don't 03:20:50.760 --> 03:20:54.000 I don't know that they're volunteer I think they're getting 03:20:54.000 --> 03:20:54.799 paid well yeah 03:20:54.799 --> 03:20:58.430 yes I'm sorry yes I mean I mean voluntarily you know within 03:20:58.430 --> 03:20:59.040 they're 03:20:59.040 --> 03:21:03.969 getting paid voluntarily come forward to say I want you 03:21:03.969 --> 03:21:05.719 know I would like to do 03:21:05.719 --> 03:21:09.170 this you know so that was my kind of initial and I do 03:21:09.170 --> 03:21:10.200 appreciate all this 03:21:10.200 --> 03:21:12.819 information that's part of the information I wanted but I 03:21:12.819 --> 03:21:13.799 also wanted 03:21:13.799 --> 03:21:18.350 to know you know are there any guys who would say hey you 03:21:18.350 --> 03:21:19.440 know count me in I'd 03:21:19.440 --> 03:21:22.889 like to go there and help out because if so then the 03:21:22.889 --> 03:21:24.520 questions about you know 03:21:24.520 --> 03:21:26.930 what the challenges are you know you hear the pros and hear 03:21:26.930 --> 03:21:27.559 the cons that 03:21:27.559 --> 03:21:31.979 could be determined by by the linemen if we can't afford to 03:21:31.979 --> 03:21:33.399 send to lose you know 03:21:33.399 --> 03:21:36.399 20 people then we see how many want to go and let those go 03:21:36.399 --> 03:21:37.239 that's just my 03:21:37.239 --> 03:21:40.479 suggestion I think the challenge is how much it costs I 03:21:40.479 --> 03:21:41.959 mean I'd say it always 03:21:41.959 --> 03:21:45.639 comes down to that so we haven't done a survey as you were 03:21:45.639 --> 03:21:46.600 talking about for the 03:21:46.600 --> 03:21:48.829 staff but I know we would have people who would be willing 03:21:48.829 --> 03:21:49.959 to go it is a paid 03:21:49.959 --> 03:21:53.139 it is paid time the question would be you know how long 03:21:53.139 --> 03:21:54.559 would they be there and 03:21:54.559 --> 03:21:57.440 really can we have them be gone from the city for that long 03:21:57.440 --> 03:21:58.479 and I think that's 03:21:58.479 --> 03:22:00.770 some of the logistical challenges that we looked into and I 03:22:00.770 --> 03:22:01.559 know Brent can talk 03:22:01.559 --> 03:22:03.870 about that a little further if we need be but that's we 03:22:03.870 --> 03:22:05.000 definitely would have 03:22:05.000 --> 03:22:09.950 people who would want to serve sure they certainly want to 03:22:09.950 --> 03:22:13.399 help Brian get the 03:22:13.399 --> 03:22:15.659 question though I think it's important for this kind of 03:22:15.659 --> 03:22:17.200 discussion this the 03:22:17.200 --> 03:22:20.620 city doesn't generally basically volunteer to impose itself 03:22:20.620 --> 03:22:21.319 on these type 03:22:21.319 --> 03:22:24.739 I mean as I understand it FEMA FEMA's got control both 03:22:24.739 --> 03:22:25.799 those processes they're 03:22:25.799 --> 03:22:28.879 actually the ones inviting the utilities in coordinating 03:22:28.879 --> 03:22:30.159 reimbursement payments 03:22:30.159 --> 03:22:33.579 that sort of thing so a lot of time when when you've you've 03:22:33.579 --> 03:22:34.479 got mutual aid 03:22:34.479 --> 03:22:40.469 requests it's a very orderly purposeful request of staffing 03:22:40.469 --> 03:22:41.440 and then you've got 03:22:41.440 --> 03:22:44.889 to follow the all the FEMA rules who's ultimately 03:22:44.889 --> 03:22:46.479 responsible for coordinating 03:22:46.479 --> 03:22:49.379 that so and determining whether or not there's reimburse 03:22:49.379 --> 03:22:50.680 ment potential as well 03:22:50.680 --> 03:22:54.610 so in this particular case they they have taken in and of 03:22:54.610 --> 03:22:55.399 course the 03:22:55.399 --> 03:22:58.370 situation over there's got a little more ugly given the 03:22:58.370 --> 03:22:59.639 previous contract with 03:22:59.639 --> 03:23:03.120 the Montana firm but they are controlling who is coming in 03:23:03.120 --> 03:23:03.719 and out of 03:23:03.719 --> 03:23:06.819 there and who's going to be hitting the reimbursement for 03:23:06.819 --> 03:23:07.680 that so that's 03:23:07.680 --> 03:23:11.190 typically how the process works is is you don't necessarily 03:23:11.190 --> 03:23:12.159 volunteer to go 03:23:12.159 --> 03:23:16.000 you're basically call on and they assume certain levels of 03:23:16.000 --> 03:23:17.040 responsibility and 03:23:17.040 --> 03:23:21.280 liability at that point for coordinating the process so 03:23:21.280 --> 03:23:22.959 yeah I do understand that 03:23:22.959 --> 03:23:26.379 but thank you just a lot more complicated with this not 03:23:26.379 --> 03:23:26.799 being in the 03:23:26.799 --> 03:23:29.889 contiguous United States and FEMA and Army Corps of 03:23:29.889 --> 03:23:31.200 Engineers and lots of 03:23:31.200 --> 03:23:42.270 different agencies involved okay okay thanks Charlie I have 03:23:42.270 --> 03:23:43.639 a real quick just 03:23:43.639 --> 03:23:47.200 kind of a question regarding a past item here about the 03:23:47.200 --> 03:23:48.280 website data that I 03:23:48.280 --> 03:23:51.450 requested we talked a lot about public involvement we 03:23:51.450 --> 03:23:52.799 talked a lot about where 03:23:52.799 --> 03:23:55.469 we're gonna have our meeting so we can have the cameras we 03:23:55.469 --> 03:23:56.360 talked about our 03:23:56.360 --> 03:23:59.520 agendas and our minutes being posted and the website data 03:23:59.520 --> 03:24:00.680 that was provided in 03:24:00.680 --> 03:24:06.319 that memo was fairly limited it only had counts for who 03:24:06.319 --> 03:24:09.239 watches the strain and 03:24:09.239 --> 03:24:14.760 and I think that's a shortcoming and I don't know if if if 03:24:14.760 --> 03:24:15.959 I should approach 03:24:15.959 --> 03:24:19.520 the the memo author about making those and put some 03:24:19.520 --> 03:24:21.399 improvements there or if 03:24:21.399 --> 03:24:24.840 you guys can approach them and ask if there can be any 03:24:24.840 --> 03:24:25.760 improvements I mean 03:24:25.760 --> 03:24:30.600 the the every click made on a website is tracked by the web 03:24:30.600 --> 03:24:32.239 server so it should 03:24:32.239 --> 03:24:36.729 be not too difficult and free to generate those you know 03:24:36.729 --> 03:24:38.440 those metrics we 03:24:38.440 --> 03:24:40.969 can absolutely follow up to see what we can do to improve 03:24:40.969 --> 03:24:41.879 the caliber of the 03:24:41.879 --> 03:24:44.700 data that we're getting out the website it just be nice to 03:24:44.700 --> 03:24:45.760 know you know since 03:24:45.760 --> 03:24:49.200 we're putting forth effort to make things public to know 03:24:49.200 --> 03:24:50.280 find out if people 03:24:50.280 --> 03:24:53.700 are paying attention or not yeah we'll ask Mario to put 03:24:53.700 --> 03:24:54.360 something together for 03:24:54.360 --> 03:24:56.700 the next step you'd be meeting on areas that we could 03:24:56.700 --> 03:24:59.959 improve in thank you okay 03:25:02.239 --> 03:25:08.889 concluding items which is an opportunity to place new items 03:25:08.889 --> 03:25:10.520 or items on future 03:25:10.520 --> 03:25:18.090 agendas as well as the matrix added a couple things to the 03:25:18.090 --> 03:25:19.520 matrix already so 03:25:19.520 --> 03:25:22.959 looks I have a rules of procedure and then something that 03:25:22.959 --> 03:25:23.959 was missed on the 03:25:23.959 --> 03:25:31.409 Tesla solar roof panels future agenda items suggestions I 03:25:31.409 --> 03:25:33.200 have one future 03:25:33.200 --> 03:25:38.290 agenda item suggestion and then the other is a possible 03:25:38.290 --> 03:25:39.920 discussion but also 03:25:39.920 --> 03:25:43.569 possible something that staff could just research and and 03:25:43.569 --> 03:25:45.280 you know add add in 03:25:45.280 --> 03:25:53.000 written form to future matrix the future agenda item is has 03:25:53.000 --> 03:25:54.799 to do with DME 03:25:54.799 --> 03:26:02.879 substations and the substation cost this is under the old 03:26:02.879 --> 03:26:05.639 management you know a 03:26:05.639 --> 03:26:09.780 bunch of new substations went on online and we were told 03:26:09.780 --> 03:26:11.319 what the purpose was 03:26:11.319 --> 03:26:15.899 were for those substations and what the cost would be and 03:26:15.899 --> 03:26:17.399 now that you know 03:26:17.399 --> 03:26:19.920 there's change of management I'm thinking this would 03:26:19.920 --> 03:26:20.760 probably be something 03:26:20.760 --> 03:26:24.200 that probably best to wait till then the new the general 03:26:24.200 --> 03:26:27.159 manager comes in I would 03:26:27.159 --> 03:26:32.569 I think it could would be really productive for us to 03:26:32.569 --> 03:26:34.799 revisit that under 03:26:34.799 --> 03:26:38.290 the new general manager and just to see as far as what the 03:26:38.290 --> 03:26:39.680 substations that have 03:26:39.680 --> 03:26:46.120 yet to be built or where or where improvements haven't yet 03:26:46.120 --> 03:26:47.639 occurred or and 03:26:47.639 --> 03:26:51.090 especially where contracts have not yet been secured just 03:26:51.090 --> 03:26:54.040 to look over what the 03:26:54.040 --> 03:26:57.639 projected costs are what the process is do we really need 03:26:57.639 --> 03:26:59.239 this is that you know 03:26:59.239 --> 03:27:03.579 etc so just kind of a fresh look on these things that are 03:27:03.579 --> 03:27:05.000 already on board 03:27:05.000 --> 03:27:08.540 you know even if it turns out okay yes you know yes we 03:27:08.540 --> 03:27:10.120 really did need all of 03:27:10.120 --> 03:27:15.149 those just you know before we I don't know exactly how much 03:27:15.149 --> 03:27:16.639 money you know 03:27:16.639 --> 03:27:20.059 we've spent already on that and how much is yes to yet to 03:27:20.059 --> 03:27:21.280 be spent but as far as 03:27:21.280 --> 03:27:23.989 controlling cost going forward just have a fresh look on 03:27:23.989 --> 03:27:24.920 that would be nice 03:27:24.920 --> 03:27:30.440 because we did have like a FERC reliability study which is 03:27:30.440 --> 03:27:31.559 what where 03:27:31.559 --> 03:27:35.510 these things come out of so maybe that a refresh and I can 03:27:35.510 --> 03:27:36.280 tell you our staff 03:27:36.280 --> 03:27:40.229 Brent Heath is also just kind of been leading the charge on 03:27:40.229 --> 03:27:41.280 that taking a look 03:27:41.280 --> 03:27:45.399 at the this five-year CIP making sure that we have things 03:27:45.399 --> 03:27:46.760 broken down into 03:27:46.760 --> 03:27:49.709 mission critical to comply with FERC as well as any 03:27:49.709 --> 03:27:51.399 customer service issues we're 03:27:51.399 --> 03:27:55.360 having and then what may be a candidate for being put into 03:27:55.360 --> 03:27:56.680 a category of future 03:27:56.680 --> 03:28:01.520 planning so we're heading down that path and in your right 03:28:01.520 --> 03:28:02.280 our new GM 03:28:02.280 --> 03:28:05.000 basically has already stated that's one of the first places 03:28:05.000 --> 03:28:05.840 he wants to start 03:28:05.840 --> 03:28:09.600 taking a look at so hopefully we can get you some answers 03:28:09.600 --> 03:28:10.479 in the next and when 03:28:10.479 --> 03:28:17.270 is he coming he starts November 27th excellent and then the 03:28:17.270 --> 03:28:18.260 other and this is 03:28:18.260 --> 03:28:22.530 I'm guessing this this might be probably more of something 03:28:22.530 --> 03:28:25.079 to put in the matrix 03:28:25.079 --> 03:28:28.520 for a future meeting but something that's a matter of 03:28:28.520 --> 03:28:29.600 public interest that 03:28:29.600 --> 03:28:32.569 people in the public had come have come to me with and and 03:28:32.569 --> 03:28:33.719 that's about issues 03:28:33.719 --> 03:28:38.270 about water pressure I I did some you know research on this 03:28:38.270 --> 03:28:40.760 on my own but but 03:28:40.760 --> 03:28:46.030 you know I assured these ratepayers that that's that's that 03:28:46.030 --> 03:28:47.360 staff would you know 03:28:47.360 --> 03:28:50.510 likely have a specific dent in specific answer be able to 03:28:50.510 --> 03:28:51.799 answer that question 03:28:51.799 --> 03:28:57.719 the first was from ropes and ranch actually and I haven't 03:28:57.719 --> 03:28:58.159 tested this 03:28:58.159 --> 03:29:04.360 myself I don't I don't live there but I somebody it 03:29:04.360 --> 03:29:06.520 contacted me as a member of 03:29:06.520 --> 03:29:10.489 PB to say that they have really low water pressure at ropes 03:29:10.489 --> 03:29:11.520 and ranch and 03:29:11.520 --> 03:29:16.000 what's up with that so I I didn't know anything about that 03:29:16.000 --> 03:29:17.520 but I assured them 03:29:17.520 --> 03:29:21.010 that I would ask and the reason I'm asking that publicly 03:29:21.010 --> 03:29:22.079 even though I could 03:29:22.079 --> 03:29:24.430 just send an email is just to show people out there if 03:29:24.430 --> 03:29:25.440 anybody's watching 03:29:25.440 --> 03:29:27.879 you know these are the kind of things you can you know you 03:29:27.879 --> 03:29:28.639 can ask and that 03:29:28.639 --> 03:29:35.850 the public utility board will get get answered for you so 03:29:35.850 --> 03:29:37.959 and then the other 03:29:37.959 --> 03:29:41.850 was a rate payer who contacted me and I wanted to know you 03:29:41.850 --> 03:29:43.399 know how common this 03:29:43.399 --> 03:29:50.399 kind of situation is a rate payer who had had a leak in her 03:29:50.399 --> 03:29:52.319 a very big leak 03:29:52.319 --> 03:29:55.549 actually I think a couple leaks in her home that were ended 03:29:55.549 --> 03:29:56.719 up being taken care 03:29:56.719 --> 03:30:01.719 of by the city under the low-income you know home 03:30:01.719 --> 03:30:05.040 improvement plan and program 03:30:05.040 --> 03:30:11.510 through I believe community development and the plumber had 03:30:11.510 --> 03:30:13.079 found that it looked 03:30:13.079 --> 03:30:16.520 like the leak was possibly caused by really high water 03:30:16.520 --> 03:30:18.360 pressure on the city's 03:30:18.360 --> 03:30:25.290 end and so he he told the resident that they should look 03:30:25.290 --> 03:30:27.200 into this it was I 03:30:27.200 --> 03:30:29.350 think it was that I don't know what the units are that 03:30:29.350 --> 03:30:30.200 water pressure is 03:30:30.200 --> 03:30:33.680 measured in but it was something like you know a hundred 03:30:33.680 --> 03:30:34.879 whatever units of 03:30:34.879 --> 03:30:40.290 water pressure when it should be only 60 and so in she told 03:30:40.290 --> 03:30:41.600 me that she was 03:30:41.600 --> 03:30:46.750 approached by the city and that she was asked to sign a 03:30:46.750 --> 03:30:48.799 release form absolving 03:30:48.799 --> 03:30:57.049 the city of any liability for the her leaking pipes so I I 03:30:57.049 --> 03:30:59.280 was curious about 03:30:59.280 --> 03:31:02.719 that I wondered you know why we would do that and I told 03:31:02.719 --> 03:31:04.000 her don't sign that 03:31:04.000 --> 03:31:07.239 waiver yet you know hold on to that until I get an answer I 03:31:07.239 --> 03:31:08.120 told her she 03:31:08.120 --> 03:31:10.680 would probably consult the lawyer on that it but I didn't 03:31:10.680 --> 03:31:11.600 know I don't know if 03:31:11.600 --> 03:31:13.489 you can answer that now but I wanted to know how common 03:31:13.489 --> 03:31:14.319 this practice is I was 03:31:14.319 --> 03:31:18.520 surprised by it there will be time we have an active risk 03:31:18.520 --> 03:31:20.600 management department 03:31:20.600 --> 03:31:22.719 that works closely with my office in the city attorney's 03:31:22.719 --> 03:31:23.559 office and there are 03:31:23.559 --> 03:31:30.040 times where we will go out and assist some of our residents 03:31:30.040 --> 03:31:31.479 but in this 03:31:31.479 --> 03:31:34.170 particular case I'd really need to get all the facts I'm 03:31:34.170 --> 03:31:35.799 not familiar with the 03:31:35.799 --> 03:31:37.770 case that you're bringing up but where you know if we could 03:31:37.770 --> 03:31:38.479 get the facts we're 03:31:38.479 --> 03:31:42.399 happy to look into it okay yeah sure yeah if you could just 03:31:42.399 --> 03:31:43.719 either you or or 03:31:43.719 --> 03:31:46.709 the resident contact either Mario myself will look into it 03:31:46.709 --> 03:31:47.920 right away okay thank 03:31:47.920 --> 03:31:58.440 you very much thanks okay any any other items PV related 03:31:58.440 --> 03:32:00.600 okay hearing none then 03:32:00.600 --> 03:32:07.389 we will and actually we will not come out we will adjourn 03:32:07.389 --> 03:32:08.280 out of closed 03:32:08.280 --> 03:32:13.559 meeting but at this time we'll go into closed meeting for 03:32:13.559 --> 03:32:15.079 deliberations 03:32:15.079 --> 03:32:19.879 regarding real property Texas under Texas Government Code 6