1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,839 public utility board meeting to order. We have a work 2 00:00:04,839 --> 00:00:06,519 session to begin this 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,509 morning, a few items, so we'll dive right into that. First 4 00:00:11,509 --> 00:00:13,679 item in work session is 5 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:16,629 to receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff 6 00:00:16,629 --> 00:00:17,960 direction regarding the 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,469 Denton Energy Center air permit review, which is being 8 00:00:21,469 --> 00:00:22,739 conducted by Black and 9 00:00:22,739 --> 00:00:24,719 Veatch Corporation. Brian, you want to make the 10 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:26,960 introductions? Good morning. Brian Langley, 11 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,410 Deputy City Manager. We had several questions about the air 12 00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:31,120 permit that was 13 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,630 filed for the Denton Energy Center and through the City 14 00:00:33,630 --> 00:00:34,759 Council and also through 15 00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:37,229 the community, and so we hired Black and Veatch to conduct 16 00:00:37,229 --> 00:00:38,039 a study to look at 17 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:41,119 that and to bring back their findings back to both the PUB 18 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:41,840 and the City 19 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,429 Council. So today they'll make that presentation to you, 20 00:00:44,429 --> 00:00:45,200 and tomorrow the 21 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,939 same presentation to the City Council. We have Diane Fisher 22 00:00:47,939 --> 00:00:48,920 that's here with 23 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,679 Black and Veatch, and so I'm going to ask her to go through 24 00:00:50,679 --> 00:00:51,560 the presentation and 25 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,320 answer any questions that you may have. Diane. 26 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:07,109 Good morning. It's great to be here in front of the PUB 27 00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:09,840 today. Again, my name is 28 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,469 Diane Fisher. I'm Associate Vice President with Black and 29 00:01:12,469 --> 00:01:13,560 Veatch and the 30 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,269 Project Director for this project. I have with me Michael 31 00:01:18,269 --> 00:01:22,280 Fisher, no relation, also 32 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,219 Mike Rinkle. Michael Fisher is our Project Manager. Mike R 33 00:01:27,219 --> 00:01:27,879 inkle is our 34 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:31,680 Environmental Engineer, and then Paul Lee is our Air 35 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,680 Quality Control Engineer. So I 36 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,170 want to tell you a little bit first about Black and Veatch 37 00:01:39,170 --> 00:01:40,120 so that you have a 38 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,170 sense of who we are and why we're doing this work. Black 39 00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:46,120 and Veatch is a 40 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,920 engineering consulting firm. We've been in business for 41 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,239 about a hundred years. We 42 00:01:50,239 --> 00:01:56,040 celebrate our 100th anniversary in 2015, and we do mostly 43 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,519 infrastructure projects. 44 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:01,159 We do work in the power industry similar to the Denton 45 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:03,640 Energy Project. We also 46 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,419 work in the water and wastewater industry. We do oil and 47 00:02:09,419 --> 00:02:11,199 gas projects and 48 00:02:11,199 --> 00:02:14,650 telecommunications projects. We also do those type of 49 00:02:14,650 --> 00:02:15,879 projects both for the 50 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:19,360 private industry and then also for the United States 51 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,120 government. And 52 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,449 we serve in a variety of roles. Sometimes we build projects 53 00:02:25,449 --> 00:02:26,560 like Denton Energy 54 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,110 Center ourselves, and then other times like this we serve 55 00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:31,280 as owner's engineer 56 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,800 where we're looking out for the interests of the city. So 57 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,159 we have about 58 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:44,659 11,000 employees. We do about 7,000 different projects 59 00:02:44,659 --> 00:02:45,479 every year, and we 60 00:02:45,479 --> 00:02:50,620 work throughout the world on six continents. And so in this 61 00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:52,800 project like 62 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,639 this, we are again looking at the needs of the sea and 63 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,199 making sure that what's 64 00:03:02,199 --> 00:03:06,750 happening on this project makes sense for the city of Dent 65 00:03:06,750 --> 00:03:08,960 on. What I'm going to 66 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,530 talk about today, or what we're going to talk about today 67 00:03:12,530 --> 00:03:14,319 again, is the project at 68 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:17,840 hand. I want to tell you a little bit about the folks that 69 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,599 are doing the work 70 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:22,750 today and a little bit about me. My background, I've been 71 00:03:22,750 --> 00:03:23,479 at Black and Beach 72 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:28,520 since 1992. I was 10 years old when I started, if you're 73 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,319 doing that math. And 74 00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:34,860 most of my background is actually in air quality control, 75 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:35,960 so I've done a lot of 76 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,879 projects like this, although now I serve more in an 77 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:43,599 oversight role. And so I 78 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:47,169 graduated from Iowa State University with a degree in 79 00:03:47,169 --> 00:03:48,080 mechanical engineering. 80 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,780 And so that's, it's been a fun time. I've enjoyed my time 81 00:03:53,780 --> 00:03:54,599 of Black and Beach. 82 00:03:54,599 --> 00:03:58,250 I'm first Michael Fisher, who's the project manager, as I 83 00:03:58,250 --> 00:03:59,439 said. He will be 84 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:02,879 talking about the assignment that we did here for Black and 85 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:04,120 Beach, and also giving 86 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,560 you a summary of the conclusions that he came to, that the 87 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:08,800 project team came to. 88 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,639 Michael has 26 years of experience in the power industry. 89 00:04:13,639 --> 00:04:14,479 He's served in a 90 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:17,220 variety of roles. He's been an engineering manager. He's 91 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:19,079 been a project design 92 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:22,560 mechanical engineer. He's done construction and startup in 93 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,120 the industry. 94 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,819 He's also served as an honors engineer, similar to this 95 00:04:25,819 --> 00:04:27,160 project. He has a 96 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,160 mechanical engineering degree from the University of Tulsa, 97 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,079 and so he will first 98 00:04:32,079 --> 00:04:34,689 start us out and kick it off. Then we'll turn it over to 99 00:04:34,689 --> 00:04:36,480 Mike Rinkle. Mike Rinkle 100 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,089 has a bachelor's of science degree in chemical engineering 101 00:04:41,089 --> 00:04:42,000 and a master's 102 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,709 degree in environmental engineer from the University of 103 00:04:44,709 --> 00:04:47,639 Nebraska, and he has 17 104 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,819 years of experience all in permitting, and he'll be talking 105 00:04:50,819 --> 00:04:52,379 about the permitting 106 00:04:52,379 --> 00:04:55,819 process that was done on this project. And then finally 107 00:04:55,819 --> 00:04:57,839 Paul Lee will finish us 108 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,259 off, and he will talk about the emissions issues and also 109 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:02,759 the air quality control 110 00:05:02,759 --> 00:05:08,209 associated with the Denton Energy Center. And Paul Lee has 111 00:05:08,209 --> 00:05:09,439 a chemical engineering 112 00:05:09,439 --> 00:05:13,569 degree from the University of Colorado at Boulder and has 113 00:05:13,569 --> 00:05:14,839 been in the power 114 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,019 industry for 13 years. So we have a very experienced team 115 00:05:18,019 --> 00:05:19,439 who's going to talk, and 116 00:05:19,439 --> 00:05:22,889 with that I'm going to turn it over to Mike Rinkle to kick 117 00:05:22,889 --> 00:05:24,519 us off on the details of the 118 00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:37,439 work. Thank You Diane. It's a pleasure to be here this 119 00:05:37,439 --> 00:05:39,000 morning discussing this 120 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:45,000 with the PUB. So as Diane has indicated, I'm Michael Fisher 121 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:45,639 . I'm the project 122 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:49,319 manager for this for the Denton Energy Center work. First 123 00:05:49,319 --> 00:05:49,959 thing I'm going to go 124 00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:53,620 over here is the the overview of the assignment and the 125 00:05:53,620 --> 00:05:55,399 conclusions, and after 126 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:57,670 I give that overview then I'll turn it over to my team, and 127 00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:58,480 my team will get a 128 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,870 little bit further in depth with what they with what the 129 00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:02,079 conclusions were from 130 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:08,560 from this work. We were contracted as Black & Veatch was 131 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,120 contracted to do an 132 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,819 independent review of this of this project, Denton Energy 133 00:06:14,819 --> 00:06:16,079 Center. The Denton 134 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:20,410 Energy Center is 12 reciprocating and internal combustion 135 00:06:20,410 --> 00:06:21,399 engine engines, 136 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:24,879 commonly called rice, within the with that's an industry 137 00:06:24,879 --> 00:06:26,360 term, and it's used 138 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,079 for the Denton Energy Center is used for peaking purposes. 139 00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:33,959 Wartzilla is the engine manufacturer for the Denton Energy 140 00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:35,759 Center, and Burns and 141 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:40,910 McDonald is the engineering constructor. The surrounding 142 00:06:40,910 --> 00:06:43,680 community has concerns 143 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,300 with the permit application and the permit process, and 144 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:49,720 therefore Denton 145 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,439 Municipal Electric retained Black & Veatch to perform an 146 00:06:52,439 --> 00:06:53,160 independent 147 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,709 analysis of the permit process and the application. DME has 148 00:06:58,709 --> 00:07:00,560 requested that we 149 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,879 compare the DEC to the Red Gate facility. Red Gate facility 150 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:08,439 being another rice 151 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:12,000 unit that's down in South Texas. 152 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:18,680 So our conclusions from this from our work was that the the 153 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:19,680 DEC permit 154 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,819 application was filed correctly, and the the DEC permit is 155 00:07:23,819 --> 00:07:25,120 valid and filed in 156 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,220 accordance with the EPA and the TCEQ requirements. A little 157 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:31,480 bit about the DEC 158 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,920 permit was that it was permitted as a peaking unit in an 159 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,160 ozone non-attainment 160 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,449 area, and it will get into some of the definitions a little 161 00:07:39,449 --> 00:07:40,399 bit further, you 162 00:07:40,399 --> 00:07:45,240 know what non-attainment and a peaking unit is. Well I'll 163 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,319 have some of my 164 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:49,920 colleagues address that. It was permitted as a minor source 165 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,920 using standard permit 166 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,920 designation, and the units are limited to a number of 167 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,279 limited to run hours to 3,200 168 00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:04,240 hours per year. That's out of a total of what would be 169 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,199 considered 8760 would be 170 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:10,129 the maximum run hours, but this this unit is permitted for 171 00:08:10,129 --> 00:08:11,839 a maximum of 3,200 run 172 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:21,120 hours per year per unit. Our conclusions continued would be 173 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,600 that Black and Beach 174 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,399 has no concerns with the DEC project meeting the emissions 175 00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:26,600 limits in its 176 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,149 permit. That the DEC has an enhanced admission control 177 00:08:31,149 --> 00:08:32,799 package and the 178 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:35,600 emissions testing performed by a third-party agency using 179 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:36,240 procedures 180 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:43,389 approved by the EPA and TCEQ with witness by individuals 181 00:08:43,389 --> 00:08:44,360 from the TCEQ 182 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:50,509 and Black and Beach. And finally it's it's an industry 183 00:08:50,509 --> 00:08:51,240 standard for the 184 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,440 emissions performance to be backed by contractual guarantee 185 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,179 from the engine 186 00:08:55,179 --> 00:09:02,039 manufacturer. With that I'll turn this over to Mike Rinkle 187 00:09:02,039 --> 00:09:03,200 who's our 188 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,549 environmental engineer and our permitting specialist. 189 00:09:07,549 --> 00:09:12,919 Thanks Michael. 190 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:16,340 Good morning everyone. Morning. My name is Mike Rinkle and 191 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:18,200 as Michael said I'm the 192 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,149 permitting specialist for this project on this team. Today 193 00:09:22,149 --> 00:09:23,279 I'm going to talk to you 194 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:26,730 a little bit about the permitting process here in Texas. In 195 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:28,600 Texas well 196 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,929 actually the Clean Air Act is the program that regulates 197 00:09:32,929 --> 00:09:34,080 the emissions 198 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,789 of pollutants into the atmosphere and EPA is the agency on 199 00:09:37,789 --> 00:09:38,840 the federal side 200 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,169 that regulates or promulgates the Clean Air Act. Here 201 00:09:43,169 --> 00:09:44,559 within the state of Texas 202 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,519 EPA has delegated that authority to the Texas Commission 203 00:09:48,519 --> 00:09:49,559 Commission of 204 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:55,299 Environmental Quality or TCEQ. So TCEQ is the agency that 205 00:09:55,299 --> 00:09:56,759 has the authority to 206 00:09:56,759 --> 00:10:01,600 issue the permits under the Clean Air Act. Within the Texas 207 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,559 Commission of 208 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,279 Environmental Quality they've developed a hierarchy of how 209 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:08,639 they want to maximize 210 00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:13,899 the use of their resources within their agency. Obviously 211 00:10:13,899 --> 00:10:14,879 there are a lot of 212 00:10:14,879 --> 00:10:17,799 industry here in the state of Texas and so to maximize the 213 00:10:17,799 --> 00:10:18,759 effective use of 214 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:22,860 their resources they've developed this hierarchy of doing 215 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:24,080 the permits within 216 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,519 the state of Texas. And as you can see from this pyramid 217 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:28,600 the top is the 218 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,840 de minimis. That basically is the most easiest way of 219 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,200 obtaining a permit in 220 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,350 order to be able to construct your emission source. What 221 00:10:38,350 --> 00:10:39,039 that is is 222 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:42,610 basically saying that there are very discernible emissions 223 00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:43,279 going to be 224 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:47,830 polluted into the atmosphere and TCEQ has basically said 225 00:10:47,830 --> 00:10:49,960 they didn't want to 226 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,120 waste the time of their resources to have to kind of go 227 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,879 through and develop a 228 00:10:55,879 --> 00:11:00,000 permit for those types of sources. There are obviously 229 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,600 restrictions that you have 230 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,120 to meet in order to be the de minimis so you have to have 231 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:04,840 very low 232 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:10,450 emissions in order to be a de minimis source and so that's 233 00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:11,039 the de minimis 234 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:16,149 source. The next category beyond that is again you're gonna 235 00:11:16,149 --> 00:11:17,440 have probably a little 236 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,889 bit more emissions but you're still going to have less 237 00:11:20,889 --> 00:11:22,039 resources having to 238 00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:24,980 be spent from the TCEQ in order to get those types of 239 00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:26,440 sources and that's what 240 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,340 they call the permit by rule. There are approximately 241 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:30,799 around a hundred different 242 00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:34,860 types of facility types that the Texas Commission of 243 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:37,120 Environment Quality has 244 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,240 developed that if you meet certain emission limit 245 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,720 requirements and you emit 246 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,399 lower emissions you can go ahead and attain a construction 247 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:49,039 permit via their 248 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:53,490 mechanism of a permit by rule. The third mechanism to get a 249 00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:55,559 permit is what the 250 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,889 Texas Commission of Equality calls is the standard permits. 251 00:11:59,889 --> 00:12:01,159 The standard permits 252 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:05,200 are basically they've developed a lot of similar type of 253 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,559 facilities within the 254 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,980 state that have the similar type of emissions and as long 255 00:12:09,980 --> 00:12:11,279 as they're all are 256 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:14,730 similar then they're gonna have the same type of permit 257 00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:15,799 requirements and so 258 00:12:15,799 --> 00:12:18,610 they've kind of categorized those into what they call the 259 00:12:18,610 --> 00:12:19,960 standard permits. The 260 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,710 standard permits are basically types of facilities that can 261 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:24,440 't meet the 262 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,340 de minimis or the permit by rule emission limits or 263 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:30,779 requirements but they 264 00:12:30,779 --> 00:12:34,879 do not require to go through the more exhaustive type of 265 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:36,200 the NSR, new 266 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,080 source review permits and so then the new source permits 267 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:40,919 are the ones 268 00:12:40,919 --> 00:12:43,909 where it's going to be taking a lot of time and effort by 269 00:12:43,909 --> 00:12:45,120 the Texas Commission 270 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,559 of Environment Quality staff to review the application and 271 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:49,399 then develop the 272 00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:55,799 permit and then as Michael Fisher mentioned earlier the DEC 273 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:56,600 and Energy 274 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,159 Center did get their permit through the mechanism of the 275 00:12:59,159 --> 00:13:00,000 standard permit 276 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,730 whereas the Red Gate facility went through the new source 277 00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:04,720 review permit 278 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:10,710 mechanism. This slide is similar to the last slide in that 279 00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:12,279 but this kind of goes 280 00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:15,350 through a general overview of how the Clean Air Act process 281 00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:17,080 really works. So 282 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,649 you have what we call the new source review under the Clean 283 00:13:20,649 --> 00:13:21,480 Air Act and 284 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,149 within the new source review you have two different kind of 285 00:13:24,149 --> 00:13:24,960 categories that 286 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,480 you're going to be going through your permitting process. 287 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:28,919 The first 288 00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:33,080 differentiator is you look at where the facility is located 289 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,279 at. Is it 290 00:13:34,279 --> 00:13:36,909 located in a non-attainment area or an attainment area? 291 00:13:36,909 --> 00:13:38,440 What that basically 292 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,509 means is the EPA has developed on national ambient air 293 00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:42,440 quality standards 294 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,639 for several criteria air pollutants and that means that 295 00:13:45,639 --> 00:13:47,120 they've developed 296 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,779 national ambient standards or limits that are in the 297 00:13:50,779 --> 00:13:52,639 atmosphere that areas 298 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:58,600 must be able to obtain. If your area is above those limits 299 00:13:58,600 --> 00:13:59,440 then you're 300 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,779 classified as a non-attainment area and as Michael 301 00:14:01,779 --> 00:14:04,039 mentioned before the city of 302 00:14:04,039 --> 00:14:07,549 Denton is in a ozone non-attainment area so it'd be 303 00:14:07,549 --> 00:14:09,720 classified as a non-attainment 304 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,159 area so you're following that non-attainment area pathway 305 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:13,799 within the 306 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:19,730 new source review permitting process. Within each of those 307 00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:21,000 two different 308 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,070 categories either attainment or non-attainment you look at 309 00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:24,799 whether or not 310 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:27,789 your facility or your project is going to be classified as 311 00:14:27,789 --> 00:14:28,759 either a major or 312 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:33,190 minor contributor to that air pollution and then that just 313 00:14:33,190 --> 00:14:34,440 basically then 314 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,519 develops whether or not you go through major permitting or 315 00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:40,279 minor permitting. As 316 00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:45,960 discussed DEC went through the standard permits so they 317 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,480 were all classified as 318 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,519 minor permit action under the Texas Commission of 319 00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:52,360 Environmental Quality 320 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,200 whereas the Red Gate facility went through the major route 321 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,399 and they went 322 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:00,950 through what we call the prevention of significant deterior 323 00:15:00,950 --> 00:15:01,720 ation permitting 324 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,129 process. So that was the permitting process for the Denton 325 00:15:07,129 --> 00:15:09,120 Energy Center so 326 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:16,570 with that I'm going to turn it over to Paul Lee. Good 327 00:15:16,570 --> 00:15:21,320 morning so I think to 328 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,460 start off as important to recap some of the things that 329 00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:24,320 Mike and Michael have 330 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,320 referred to although the Denton Energy Center and Red Gate 331 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,080 are utilizing similar 332 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,230 engines the intent of the two facilities are very different 333 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:35,080 and it's very important 334 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,440 to note that Red Gate is a base load plant it runs all the 335 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,659 time 8,760 hours 336 00:15:41,659 --> 00:15:44,659 is the number of hours in a year. The intent of Denton 337 00:15:44,659 --> 00:15:45,879 Energy Center though is 338 00:15:45,879 --> 00:15:49,679 a peaking facility it'll be running limited to 3,200 hours 339 00:15:49,679 --> 00:15:52,200 per year so when 340 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,789 energy demand is high such as summer times when everyone's 341 00:15:54,789 --> 00:15:55,240 using their 342 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,129 air conditioners that's when Denton Energy Center could be 343 00:15:58,129 --> 00:16:00,039 turned on. Therefore 344 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:03,679 the DEC or Denton Energy Center could apply for a standard 345 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:04,700 permit whereas Red 346 00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:08,139 Gate being a base load facility had to go through PSD 347 00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:10,360 review. Also in addition to 348 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,289 being similar engines the control equipment both facilities 349 00:16:14,289 --> 00:16:15,799 are the same. 350 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:19,500 Selective catalytic lid of reduction also commonly known as 351 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:20,759 an SCR is used to 352 00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:24,350 reduce NOx emissions with the injection of a reagent 353 00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:26,759 ammonia in both cases and 354 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:31,389 also both facilities will have an oxidation catalyst which 355 00:16:31,389 --> 00:16:32,179 I think I 356 00:16:32,179 --> 00:16:35,809 accidentally hit a button. Oxidation catalyst is used to 357 00:16:35,809 --> 00:16:37,600 reduce the CO and VOC 358 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,309 emissions as well as any ammonia slip that could go past 359 00:16:42,309 --> 00:16:47,419 the SCR. However the 360 00:16:47,419 --> 00:16:51,820 emission rates are different at both facilities. As you can 361 00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:52,879 see from this 362 00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:56,049 table the things that are in bold are the higher emissions 363 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:57,120 rates between the 364 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,090 two facilities. Emission rates are provided by the 365 00:16:59,090 --> 00:17:00,399 equipment manufacturer 366 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:05,259 in this case with Rosilla to help develop the air permit 367 00:17:05,259 --> 00:17:06,079 within the 368 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:11,200 constraints of all the regulations TCAQ, Federal EPA and as 369 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,160 you can see the CO 370 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,390 emissions are slightly lower but the NOx are significantly 371 00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:17,720 lower as well as the 372 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,809 SO2 and the VOCs. So the question is why? If we have two 373 00:17:22,809 --> 00:17:24,559 similar engines at both 374 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:27,039 facilities and they're both utilizing the same emissions 375 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:27,920 controls and how is 376 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,859 one facility such lower in NOx CO and VOC emissions? Well 377 00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:34,920 similar to how cars 378 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,079 are not all the same, not all SCRs and oxidation catalysts 379 00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:39,519 are made equal. 380 00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:42,759 Some parts of the country have very very stringent and 381 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:44,400 tight regulations such as 382 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,880 Southern California for example where pollution is very 383 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,599 very high. For this 384 00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:53,650 purpose Rosilla has created an enhanced emissions package 385 00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:54,559 and the Denton Energy 386 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:58,000 Center is equipped with this same type of package so 387 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,599 therefore the SCR is just 388 00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:02,589 a higher performing SCR, the catalysts as well as the 389 00:18:02,589 --> 00:18:05,160 oxidation catalyst. It's also 390 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,609 important to note that the emission guarantees are a make 391 00:18:08,609 --> 00:18:09,680 right guarantee. 392 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,329 There is contractually no way that they can buy themselves 393 00:18:13,329 --> 00:18:14,119 out of these 394 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:20,269 guarantees. They are responsible and liable to to use all 395 00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:21,359 the financial funds 396 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:27,799 as well as the manpower to make these emission limits met. 397 00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:31,319 So now we have all 398 00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:34,220 that covered then how do you demonstrate that emission 399 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:35,599 limits are met? So the 400 00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:38,279 Federal Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, has 401 00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:39,559 developed a series of test 402 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:43,369 methods that is used throughout the industry and those will 403 00:18:43,369 --> 00:18:44,880 be used once the 404 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,640 plant is built and constructed and starting up to 405 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,079 demonstrate what 406 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:53,319 emissions are being produced. The engines will be at full 407 00:18:53,319 --> 00:18:55,200 load in order to 408 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,759 challenge the engines at most maximum potential for 409 00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:01,200 emissions and then we will 410 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,150 hire a third party contractor to execute the test. The 411 00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:05,480 third party contractors 412 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,440 specialize in these tests. They have a certification as 413 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,519 well so I'll call the 414 00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:15,670 qualified stack testing individual. So they're certified, 415 00:19:15,670 --> 00:19:16,000 they're 416 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,839 third party, there's no collusion or fake news with what 417 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:22,279 they do. They will 418 00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:27,529 perform a test and prior to a test 30 to 60 days before the 419 00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:29,400 test occur will notify 420 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,910 TCEQ. They'll have every opportunity to come to the testing 421 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:33,880 facility and make 422 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,660 sure the apparatus is set up correctly, that there's no 423 00:19:37,660 --> 00:19:39,160 operating errors that 424 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,539 it's occurring and they often do come, not always, but they 425 00:19:43,539 --> 00:19:44,640 at least have the 426 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,039 opportunity to come. Regardless of whether or not they 427 00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:48,920 witness the test, the 428 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,990 test report will be developed and submitted to them. They 429 00:19:52,990 --> 00:19:54,039 'll have to review 430 00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:56,710 it and make sure the emission limits are met and then they 431 00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:57,480 could issue an 432 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,319 operating permit. Only then can the facility actually 433 00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:03,400 operate. So emission 434 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,740 limits should be met regardless when this facility is 435 00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:11,160 operating. So with that, 436 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,750 that was a presentation and I'd like to open up for 437 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:15,640 questions. 438 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,640 Questions? 439 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:35,640 [inaudible] 440 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,539 These are from the permanent application. Yes. So these 441 00:20:40,539 --> 00:20:43,559 figures, they are all 442 00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:47,890 within the minor source permit and specifications for a non 443 00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:49,440 -attainment zone. 444 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:55,079 Deb, would you mind? I'm sorry. No, thank you. So these 445 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:58,200 figures, which are all 446 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:05,019 fit within the requirements for a minor source permit in 447 00:21:05,019 --> 00:21:06,640 our non-attainment 448 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,759 zone, these were taken from the paperwork of the 449 00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:14,039 manufacturer of Wurzala. 450 00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:18,240 This is what they said on paper. Yes, so these are taken 451 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,200 from the apartment and 452 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,680 these are provided from the OEM, in this case Wurzala. Yeah 453 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,960 , so just to 454 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,549 understand where you guys fit in, so Black and Veatch is 455 00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:29,839 not, you're not 456 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:34,769 standing behind these and saying we guarantee that when 457 00:21:34,769 --> 00:21:36,200 they turn on the 458 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:42,440 plant, these, you know, it will test exactly like this. 459 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,519 What you're saying is 460 00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:48,359 I understand it is we are confident that if it doesn't end 461 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,599 up testing like this, 462 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:54,279 that Wurzala is responsible for fixing the problem. Is that 463 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:55,359 correct? Yeah, 464 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,440 correct. We are not standing by Wurzala hand-in-hand saying 465 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,279 that the 466 00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:03,109 make-right guarantees are going to be met. There's just a 467 00:22:03,109 --> 00:22:04,200 review of the 468 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,480 permit itself. Yes. So these were provided from the OEM or 469 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,359 Wurzala and we're just 470 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,359 evaluating how they submitted and how the permit was done 471 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:15,440 and were executed. 472 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,890 Yes. In our opinion it was done correctly. Yeah, and the 473 00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:20,799 permit is just a 474 00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:26,559 matter of, and correct me if I'm wrong, when the permit, 475 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:27,119 the air permit is 476 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,519 submitted to TCEQ, TCEQ as I understand it, they look at 477 00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:32,480 the paperwork and they 478 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,509 make sure that the numbers are where they're supposed to be 479 00:22:35,509 --> 00:22:37,039 and they say kind 480 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,000 of like you're doing, okay, but if something goes wrong 481 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,799 then it's on you. Is 482 00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:48,480 that correct? By you I mean, you know, the, whoever's 483 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,160 submitting the permit. 484 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,039 Yeah, so the permit is approved by TCEQ and if the initial 485 00:22:54,039 --> 00:22:55,119 limits aren't met, I 486 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,079 had to go back to that make-right guarantee aspect. Yeah. 487 00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:01,099 That the facility 488 00:23:01,099 --> 00:23:03,119 won't get an operating permit if the initial limits aren't 489 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,039 met. Exactly. So 490 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:09,670 therefore Wurzala has to meet these guarantees. So if we 491 00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:11,319 get to this, to 492 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:13,819 start up with the third-party contractors that's doing the 493 00:23:13,819 --> 00:23:14,200 EPA test 494 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,920 methods, if CEO comes out higher in a pounds per hour basis 495 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:18,799 than the standard 496 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:21,400 permit allows, then they need to fix that oxidation 497 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,920 catalyst. Whether that means 498 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,200 purchase the whole brand new one. There are many options. 499 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,680 Exactly, there's many options, but they are 500 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,380 responsible for the labor, the parts, and as well as the 501 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:36,559 lost money. Yeah, and 502 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,940 so that's why you're not concerned because you know if 503 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:39,720 something goes 504 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,529 wrong, is that correct? Correct. Wurzala will take care of 505 00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:43,519 it. Exactly, in our 506 00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:46,420 experience make-right guarantees are very, very sensitive 507 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:47,079 as you can imagine 508 00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:53,230 and they're typically met. My experience, they're always 509 00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:54,960 met. Yeah, end up being met. 510 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,509 They end up being met somehow. Exactly. Brendan, I think 511 00:23:59,509 --> 00:24:01,240 you had a question. Yeah, some of what 512 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,839 y'all just discussed confused me a little bit. So in the 513 00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:07,599 application for the 514 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:14,750 permit, Wurzala submitted their performance emissions, is 515 00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:15,119 that what 516 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,740 you're saying? You mentioned OEM stats. So these are the 517 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:21,119 stats that the engines 518 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,569 are going to perform at or they're the stats for what's 519 00:24:24,569 --> 00:24:27,960 allowable by the permit? 520 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:34,319 Why don't you put a mic here a little bit. Because the 521 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:34,680 engines 522 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,130 perform at something and the permit should be separate than 523 00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:38,640 what the 524 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:44,259 engines actually perform at, right? So when an application 525 00:24:44,259 --> 00:24:46,680 is developed, the 526 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,839 the client will go to the OEM or the manufacturer of the 527 00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:52,759 engine and they will 528 00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,210 get what they call these guaranteed values. And so the 529 00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:57,240 manufacturer will 530 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,799 provide a guaranteed value of we can meet those levels of 531 00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:03,039 emissions. 532 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,240 Obviously since there will be a contractual obligation to 533 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,799 meet those, the 534 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,049 manufacturer will want to be able to operate at a level 535 00:25:11,049 --> 00:25:12,240 that is lower than 536 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,680 that. They don't want to be right at that level that they 537 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,079 're going to be 538 00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:20,269 operating. And so they give these contractual values that 539 00:25:20,269 --> 00:25:21,480 are used for the 540 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,529 application when you're developing the permit and say we 541 00:25:24,529 --> 00:25:25,519 will not go above 542 00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:29,880 these levels. And so those are the levels that will get 543 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,519 into the permit and the 544 00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:35,490 permit basically says you shall not emit above these levels 545 00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:37,119 . Okay, so then the 546 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:43,269 the TCEQ won't allow us to operate these engines at any 547 00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:45,319 higher than what you've 548 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:50,579 got published right here on this slide. That's not fact 549 00:25:50,579 --> 00:25:53,599 ually correct. Okay. These 550 00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:59,240 these numbers are what was used to develop the application. 551 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,640 So then the TCEQ 552 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,150 or Texas Commission of Environmental Quality, when they 553 00:26:04,150 --> 00:26:06,440 write their permit, if you look at the 554 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,259 actual permit, I believe that the permit limits are in what 555 00:26:11,259 --> 00:26:11,359 they are in an 556 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,519 emission unit called pounds per hour. And so you take these 557 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:16,640 numbers and you would 558 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,480 develop a pound per hour emission rate. And so in your 559 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,960 actual permit, the 560 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:30,319 actual permitted limit is on a pound per hour basis. So you 561 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:31,359 cannot emit above 562 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:37,519 that number. Are any of those numbers, if you convert them 563 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:37,960 into these 564 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,569 numbers, greater than these numbers? They are equal. Okay, 565 00:26:42,569 --> 00:26:44,279 thank you. Susan, do you have a question? 566 00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:48,160 I didn't and I think there was a slide in the beginning 567 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,119 that this is the normal 568 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,740 utility practice. What Denton Energy Center did is normal 569 00:26:55,740 --> 00:26:56,440 standard in 570 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:02,960 getting going to the standard permit versus the NSR. 571 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,319 Correct. The way the 572 00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:10,750 project the project's goals were developed by the city. And 573 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:11,480 so you take 574 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,049 those project goals and it defines the project. And so once 575 00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:15,920 the project is 576 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,400 defined, you then go look at the mechanism within the TCEQ 577 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:20,839 realm of 578 00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:25,039 requirements and they fit into the standard permit realm. 579 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:26,200 And it's really 580 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,609 because we were not a baseload. We are a peaking facility. 581 00:27:29,609 --> 00:27:30,720 Is that correct or is 582 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,049 that not correct? That is correct. When you're comparing to 583 00:27:35,049 --> 00:27:36,519 Red Gate. Okay. That is 584 00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:44,400 correct. Thank you. Can you speak to the process if the 585 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,480 plant after it's been 586 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,329 issued its operating permit, what occurs if it starts to 587 00:27:51,329 --> 00:27:53,240 operate outside of its 588 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,569 emissions limits? Like if we're in non-compliance with our 589 00:27:57,569 --> 00:27:58,960 permit? So they 590 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:05,160 so the city then would then they are required to submit 591 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:05,920 semi-annual and 592 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,450 annual reports to the Texas Commission of Environment and 593 00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:09,559 Quality. Okay. And in 594 00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,730 those reports they will state their compliance. If they are 595 00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:13,680 out of compliance 596 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,490 they have to notify the Texas Commission of Environment and 597 00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:17,480 Quality that they are out of 598 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,779 compliance. The TCEQ then will determine the severity of 599 00:28:22,779 --> 00:28:23,799 that non-compliance and 600 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,829 they will make a determination whether or not to issue what 601 00:28:26,829 --> 00:28:27,759 they call a notice 602 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:33,000 of violation. But that's all done within the Texas 603 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,799 Commission of Environment 604 00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,440 and Quality. Okay. And it's all and all the testing is it's 605 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:38,200 a self-assessment 606 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,000 type system, self-assessed and self-reported then, right? 607 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,200 Like all the 608 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,839 emissions testings that's all done by our personnel or 609 00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:47,759 people we contract. The 610 00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:51,210 testing is usually done by a third-party testing agency. 611 00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:52,200 Similar to the 612 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,900 initial testing. Correct. Okay. Thank you. They need to be 613 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,079 certified testers to perform that. Yes. 614 00:28:58,079 --> 00:29:01,039 And it would be similar to an independent audit of 615 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:02,119 financial records 616 00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:07,480 only on the environment side. Correct. Thank you. 617 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:28,359 Questions? Charlie? Questions? Okay. Thank you. So I 618 00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:33,559 understand that the Redgate 619 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:37,549 plant is a baseload plant and the deck is a peaking plant 620 00:29:37,549 --> 00:29:38,839 so they have different 621 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:45,769 purposes which means that the Redgate runs more hours per 622 00:29:45,769 --> 00:29:49,319 year. But when 623 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:57,009 testing occurs is the use of the plant factored into the 624 00:29:57,009 --> 00:29:59,359 emissions testing at 625 00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:02,079 all? As I understand it, it's simply a matter of what 626 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:03,720 emissions are in the air 627 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,589 you know and then calculations are made based on that. No, 628 00:30:08,589 --> 00:30:09,880 when the third 629 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,859 party company comes out to do the performance testing they 630 00:30:13,859 --> 00:30:14,799 need to be at 631 00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,960 certain limits of operation within their realm. So I 632 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,599 believe it's 633 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:27,720 90% above 90% of their capacity that they need to be at 634 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:28,839 when they perform the 635 00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:31,730 testing. Yes, it's at the moment they perform the testing, 636 00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:32,640 correct? Correct. 637 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,539 Yes, so just to be clear so that people understand and then 638 00:30:37,539 --> 00:30:37,799 that the 639 00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,920 public understands that when emissions testing is happening 640 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,559 they're not 641 00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:45,529 thinking oh well this is a lot for this moment but they're 642 00:30:45,529 --> 00:30:48,000 only gonna run it X 643 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,839 number of hours per year, right? It's simply looking at the 644 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:54,440 emissions at that 645 00:30:54,440 --> 00:31:00,880 moment. Yes, under the requirements of the law that is how 646 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,319 you perform 647 00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:05,480 the testing. Yes, thank you. I understand that I just 648 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:05,759 wanted to 649 00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:07,880 because I think there's a little confusion in the public 650 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,480 about that and 651 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,119 just wanted to clarify. Thank you very much. Any other 652 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:17,519 questions? No? Thank you. 653 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:21,279 Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. 654 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Okay next in the work session. Can we discuss this amongst 655 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,519 ourselves? Sure. 656 00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:40,200 Yeah, I was I don't know if anybody else had but I was 657 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,319 wondering if we could have 658 00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:51,619 a discussion at some point about if this does end up 659 00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:56,000 happening dot the emissions 660 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:05,250 at testing exceed the permit what our options might be and 661 00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:07,039 you know of course 662 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:11,130 we don't if that ends up happening we don't need to decide 663 00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:12,200 till that moment 664 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,799 comes but in the sense of you know because it's good to be 665 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:17,920 prepared for 666 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:24,069 these things. I would would appreciate a discussion at some 667 00:32:24,069 --> 00:32:25,440 point before testing 668 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,319 about you know looking at different hypothetical scenarios. 669 00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:30,240 I don't know if 670 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,559 that would have to be a closed session if you know be if it 671 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:33,359 was a legal issue 672 00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:39,000 and we had questions about liability but I would like you 673 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,980 know to know ahead of 674 00:32:40,980 --> 00:32:44,920 time what our options might be. Do you mean the testing 675 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,039 before we get an 676 00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:49,210 operating permit or do you mean after we have an operating 677 00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:50,519 permit and we're and 678 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:55,880 we'll get meeting. Before the initial before the testing 679 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:56,200 when they're 680 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,440 when they're finished and you know to see if they if they 681 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,559 grant the permit the 682 00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:05,109 initial right when they turn it on before that moment. I 683 00:33:05,109 --> 00:33:06,000 would think and I 684 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,710 have to have and you're correct it may need to go discuss 685 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:12,119 because it's going to 686 00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:15,960 go back to the contract with the engine manufacturer but if 687 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,720 there's a make right 688 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,339 clause in the contract I'm assuming that would kick in at 689 00:33:19,339 --> 00:33:21,039 that point. Oh of course 690 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:23,920 but I mean you know in the sense of I would hope that we 691 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,160 don't just leave it 692 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,359 up to that if that were to happen that we wouldn't just 693 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:28,480 leave it up to Wurzilla 694 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,829 to decide how they're going to fix the problem I would hope 695 00:33:34,829 --> 00:33:35,960 that Wurzilla that 696 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,289 we would be able to work with them and we would have 697 00:33:40,289 --> 00:33:43,160 options. The I guess the 698 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,829 short answer to your question is we would obviously enforce 699 00:33:47,829 --> 00:33:48,720 the make good 700 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,700 provision we would have independent verification that they 701 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:52,519 've made good on 702 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:55,259 their on their promise in order to clear that contractual 703 00:33:55,259 --> 00:33:56,599 hurdle but we would not 704 00:33:56,599 --> 00:34:00,039 we would not sign off on the make good provision until 705 00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:01,200 independent experts have 706 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,650 verified that they are in compliance. So we would if should 707 00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:06,720 that happen we'll enforce it immediately. 708 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,519 Oh yeah yeah but in terms of the different ways I mean 709 00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:09,960 there are a number 710 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,289 of different ways of getting in compliance you can have 711 00:34:12,289 --> 00:34:12,920 them you know 712 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,539 they could keep tweaking the emissions controls for years 713 00:34:15,539 --> 00:34:16,440 and years and years 714 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,909 you know while the plant remains non-operational and the 715 00:34:20,909 --> 00:34:21,519 assets 716 00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:27,219 depreciate or you know we could we could tell that we could 717 00:34:27,219 --> 00:34:27,920 ask them to 718 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,059 say you know take it to take away some of take back some of 719 00:34:32,059 --> 00:34:33,440 the engines I mean 720 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,769 to what I would hope that we meaning not just PUB but the 721 00:34:37,769 --> 00:34:38,679 City you know council 722 00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:43,630 would would have some say in the methods by which those 723 00:34:43,630 --> 00:34:45,440 emissions requirements 724 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,440 are met. I think those those methods have already been 725 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:51,599 prescribed in the contract 726 00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:55,019 and it's pretty simple they're they're either going to have 727 00:34:55,019 --> 00:34:56,000 to comply or you 728 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,570 know we can certainly they would be legal for not not comp 729 00:34:59,570 --> 00:35:00,559 lying with the 730 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:03,570 terms of the contract but it's a fairly simple thing I mean 731 00:35:03,570 --> 00:35:04,199 if we're gonna 732 00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,710 there's gonna be a cure provision in the contract which 733 00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:09,679 there is if the if the 734 00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:13,130 engines don't initially perform as necessary we'll have to 735 00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:13,760 provide them 736 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,199 notice which they don't want you know that's and I think 737 00:35:17,199 --> 00:35:18,440 the gentleman from 738 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,320 Black and Beech sort of alert you know alluded to that is 739 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,239 it is definitely their 740 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,690 best interest to comply immediately and we're not going to 741 00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:25,760 be in a position where 742 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,309 we can cancel a contract or necessary scale anything back 743 00:35:30,309 --> 00:35:31,079 they're going to be 744 00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:34,679 allowed to to cure right away if they get to a point in 745 00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:35,840 theory where they can't 746 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,289 cure then within that brings a whole nother set of 747 00:35:39,289 --> 00:35:40,599 variables in the ear that 748 00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:43,050 you're discussing but they're gonna be given a time period 749 00:35:43,050 --> 00:35:44,039 that's well defined 750 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:47,809 the contract to comply immediately okay and it's not and we 751 00:35:47,809 --> 00:35:48,360 're not gonna have 752 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,139 much say in terms of how they do it they're just simply 753 00:35:50,139 --> 00:35:50,760 going to have to 754 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,239 make that technology work they've guaranteed us it will I 755 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,639 see I see and 756 00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:58,239 this is all in the non redacted contract because I've only 757 00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,960 seen and 758 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,409 because PUP has only seen the redacted contract we haven't 759 00:36:03,409 --> 00:36:05,320 been allowed to see 760 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,880 the unredacted contract so the emissions figures are taken 761 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:09,840 out of that I assume 762 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,400 that these they're identical that's what I assume right so 763 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:15,239 they are contract 764 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,860 they have contractually bound themselves to meet those 765 00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:19,079 standards and 766 00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:21,690 obviously that's where our rights come in if they can't 767 00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:22,960 then the whole contract 768 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,480 is obviously called into question but they will be given a 769 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,920 cure period to come 770 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,250 into compliance okay and is that period prescribed in the 771 00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:35,559 in the contract and 772 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:38,280 again because I've only seen we've only seen the redacted 773 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,280 version I need to 774 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,230 defer to our legal counsel on that I'm sure it is I just 775 00:36:43,230 --> 00:36:44,440 cannot remember it 776 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:52,980 that period would be okay I wanted to know if anybody knew 777 00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:54,480 if the contract 778 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,320 allowed for changing of the the permit if if for some 779 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,519 reason the testing is out 780 00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,969 of compliance and they try to get it in compliance if we 781 00:37:04,969 --> 00:37:06,400 can change the permit 782 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,829 to have greater emissions as you know I think we're kind of 783 00:37:10,829 --> 00:37:12,079 getting off into 784 00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:16,079 discussing specifics of the contract and I don't know that 785 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:17,679 okay well I mean I 786 00:37:17,679 --> 00:37:21,920 thought I think that I take it just discuss the image yeah 787 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,920 I take it that 788 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,309 there's a right there's a right to cure in the contract and 789 00:37:25,309 --> 00:37:26,159 there's certain 790 00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:30,119 things we can do sure within our rights to do that I also 791 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:31,159 go back to comment 792 00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:37,369 mr. Lee made I believe about the initial attainment of I 793 00:37:37,369 --> 00:37:41,360 believe you you gave a 794 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,199 when the percentage but it was basically how many times on 795 00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:49,440 these initial permits 796 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,920 the manufacturers did I not hear that right that there was 797 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,800 a certain amount of 798 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:04,429 time I'm not exactly sure what coming in front of you when 799 00:38:04,429 --> 00:38:06,639 I said that in my 800 00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:11,769 experience the the OEMs in this case where Zilla do meet 801 00:38:11,769 --> 00:38:13,360 the emission limits 802 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,559 I don't want to put you before you're guaranteeing it but I 803 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:17,039 just your 804 00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:20,840 experience has been exactly my experience is that the OEMs 805 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:21,400 do meet 806 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,849 emission limits they are such a sensitive issue and they 807 00:38:24,849 --> 00:38:25,519 will not back 808 00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:29,610 up things that they have to meet because there is no 809 00:38:29,610 --> 00:38:32,280 financial buyout some other 810 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,440 performance guarantees if they don't meet those there are 811 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,599 agreed upon financial 812 00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:43,239 terms where they could say okay we didn't meet this sorry 813 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:43,880 here's a million 814 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,599 dollars this case they cannot and it can therefore incur 815 00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:48,280 millions it's got to 816 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,719 work yeah so my experience yes but I definitely don't know 817 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:52,519 sure I don't I 818 00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:54,320 don't want to put you on the spot it would guarantee 819 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:55,400 anything I want to 820 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,050 follow up and what I and correct me Brendan if I'm putting 821 00:38:58,050 --> 00:38:58,800 words in your 822 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,809 what you were trying to find out though we cannot change 823 00:39:01,809 --> 00:39:02,960 that permit at this 824 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,409 point in time we have to meet the permit that we've 825 00:39:06,409 --> 00:39:07,719 submitted yes as I 826 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,340 understand yes so we can't change that if testing says we 827 00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:12,960 didn't meet it we 828 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,760 can't change that at this point great yes live up with that 829 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,480 yes and I had not 830 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,090 seen you guys contract so I don't know the answer to that 831 00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:19,679 question you're 832 00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:24,099 asking but yes miss Parker I can do believe that and just 833 00:39:24,099 --> 00:39:25,239 to go back to what 834 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,789 you were saying sorry this kind of repetitive it just but 835 00:39:27,789 --> 00:39:28,539 then but just to 836 00:39:28,539 --> 00:39:33,110 make clear when you said that that they always that you 837 00:39:33,110 --> 00:39:34,320 know the manufacturers 838 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,420 always follow through because they have a stake in it you 839 00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:40,719 're not saying that 840 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,269 they never fail the initial testing you're saying that they 841 00:39:45,269 --> 00:39:46,440 always will do 842 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:56,940 whatever it takes to make it comply eventually well I 843 00:39:56,940 --> 00:39:58,320 should in my experience 844 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,760 it's always been the first time but um regardless I think 845 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,599 if we were to take a 846 00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:08,719 survey of hundreds more people like me that to get a better 847 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:09,920 survey of all of 848 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,039 the experiences out there yes yeah there's documentation of 849 00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:15,239 failing testing 850 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,800 and tweaking and tweaking and tweaking and tweaking forever 851 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:23,630 correct forever is not a very long you're talking you're 852 00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:24,239 talking worst-case 853 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,570 scenario and I mean the sky's not gonna fall in I mean 854 00:40:28,570 --> 00:40:30,079 these these guys know 855 00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:33,500 what they're doing and we have rights under the contract to 856 00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:34,280 make it work to 857 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,769 meet our permit standards and we sit here and debate all 858 00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:40,119 day about what if 859 00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:44,050 what if what if what if you know it's either gonna work it 860 00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:46,039 's not gonna work so 861 00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:48,949 I want to add a little bit to what Paul because my 862 00:40:48,949 --> 00:40:50,639 experience both Paul and I 863 00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:52,769 have worked together for many years and my experience is 864 00:40:52,769 --> 00:40:54,000 also air quality control 865 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,480 yes you can find examples out there where people have had 866 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,440 to tweak and tweak 867 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:05,619 and tweak they are rare very very rare most plants pass on 868 00:41:05,619 --> 00:41:08,280 their first try that 869 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,449 is that is common for the exact reason that Paul said in 870 00:41:12,449 --> 00:41:15,119 that they will fail on 871 00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,650 something else before they fail on air quality that's just 872 00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:19,960 the reality of the 873 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,860 situation to your question of what do we do if in the 874 00:41:24,860 --> 00:41:27,360 unlikely event that this is 875 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,369 the plant that is in that rare situation how do you come up 876 00:41:32,369 --> 00:41:34,280 with a plan to deal 877 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,920 with that situation the the first thing you have to look at 878 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:38,679 is why is it 879 00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:43,869 failing and so to come up with a action plan in advance of 880 00:41:43,869 --> 00:41:45,119 how to deal with that 881 00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:50,880 that's it's it's it's hard to do that but what what my 882 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,920 recommendation to you 883 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:58,170 would be is that's frankly our role as owner's engineer to 884 00:41:58,170 --> 00:41:59,199 help you with that 885 00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:03,130 in addition to this assignment we're serving as your owner 886 00:42:03,130 --> 00:42:04,400 's engineer so how 887 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,300 we would handle those situations and how we have in the 888 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,280 past is to look at the 889 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:16,019 cause step through and figure out is it the ammonia system 890 00:42:16,019 --> 00:42:18,239 is it not tracking 891 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,880 emissions properly is it something in that that's causing 892 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:22,519 problem is the 893 00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:25,420 catalyst not functioning properly is something wrong with 894 00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:27,039 the catalyst is the 895 00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:32,070 engine not properly inhibiting oxidation in some way and 896 00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:33,639 that's what's causing 897 00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:40,860 the the NOx to be a problem is the fuel you're using not in 898 00:42:40,860 --> 00:42:41,719 accordance to spec 899 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:46,119 so we'd have to go through a step-by-step diagnostic 900 00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:47,039 process to 901 00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:50,460 figure out what the cause is and so that that was that 902 00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:51,960 would be the activity that 903 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,840 we would go through and and we couldn't do that until the 904 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,559 situation actually I 905 00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:01,039 see so so you're saying so if I understand correctly and 906 00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:02,079 this might 907 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:06,630 involve me kind of retracting my or at least tweaking you 908 00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:08,199 know my suggestion 909 00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,170 about having a work session about possible scenarios that 910 00:43:11,170 --> 00:43:12,159 because there are 911 00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:16,730 so many different possible if something does go wrong there 912 00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:17,280 are so many 913 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,699 different ways it could go wrong but you really would not 914 00:43:20,699 --> 00:43:21,840 know what our options 915 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,860 that we couldn't even say well it would have to be one of 916 00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:24,679 these five options 917 00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:31,070 right we really don't know right so the action plan would 918 00:43:31,070 --> 00:43:32,800 be immediately get 919 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,630 together in a mitigation group to assess the situation and 920 00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:37,920 that's your job that 921 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,820 that's what we would do as your owners engineer okay yeah 922 00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:43,559 thank you very much 923 00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:47,010 and the I don't know if you followed the there's a similar 924 00:43:47,010 --> 00:43:48,960 work Silla plant in 925 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,820 Humboldt California that failed emissions initial testing 926 00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:54,559 recently and 927 00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:56,440 they tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and twe 928 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,840 aked and yeah that so I 929 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,070 have a sense and you know anybody can look that up and see 930 00:44:02,070 --> 00:44:03,599 to see what kind of 931 00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:08,280 difficult complex work is involved not for the layperson 932 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,159 thank you very much 933 00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:18,920 uh-huh okay thank you thank you any other questions 934 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:24,480 comments okay any 935 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:29,920 direction I mean I think direction the staff I think we're 936 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,800 pretty much we've 937 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,699 got our we're online we'll just we'll see when we when we 938 00:44:36,699 --> 00:44:38,039 get there I think 939 00:44:38,039 --> 00:44:42,510 we've got got things lined up to make sure it tests and and 940 00:44:42,510 --> 00:44:43,800 black and beach is 941 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,880 working on our behalf that's correct yes yes we have to put 942 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,280 our faith in them and 943 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:57,639 they're a good firm yeah okay all right moving on then 944 00:44:57,639 --> 00:45:02,239 actually the of the five 945 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,219 items for work session two were with consultants and three 946 00:45:07,219 --> 00:45:08,719 are with staff so 947 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,590 what I'd like to do is move in the work session if it's 948 00:45:12,590 --> 00:45:17,179 okay item C next which 949 00:45:17,179 --> 00:45:20,630 is to receive a report hold a discussion and give staff 950 00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:21,519 direction regarding a 951 00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:24,960 review of this solid waste department's procedures and 952 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,480 internal controls by 953 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,820 Weaver and Tidwell LLP good morning PV my name is Ethan Cox 954 00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:33,800 I'm the director of 955 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,679 solid waste we have John Lawson which is a partner with We 956 00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:37,400 aver and Tidwell here 957 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,360 with us this morning just a little bit of brief 958 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,320 introduction about how we arrived 959 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,440 at this point so over the last several months as many of 960 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,119 you are aware we've 961 00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:49,690 presented or brought forth some projects agreements things 962 00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:51,119 of that nature in 963 00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:55,599 solid waste that we found some concerns with following a 964 00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:56,440 recent change in 965 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,469 management a lot of those were really related to system of 966 00:46:00,469 --> 00:46:01,199 controls 967 00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:04,639 standardized procedures a lot of that's related to project 968 00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:05,599 management as well as 969 00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:09,309 contract management and so earlier in the fall the city of 970 00:46:09,309 --> 00:46:10,519 Denton contracted 971 00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:13,420 with Weaver and Tidwell to come out and perform a review of 972 00:46:13,420 --> 00:46:14,260 our processes 973 00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:16,760 controls resource utilization things of that nature in the 974 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,280 solid waste 975 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,519 department so what we have for you today John Lawson is 976 00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:21,480 here he'll go through 977 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,250 Weaver's findings at the conclusion of his presentation I 978 00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:25,960 'll be back to the 979 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,420 podium and I'll walk through what our management responses 980 00:46:28,420 --> 00:46:29,159 are our plan of 981 00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:33,389 action for all of those findings so with that I'll turn it 982 00:46:33,389 --> 00:46:34,360 over to John. 983 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:39,780 Good morning everyone as Ethan mentioned my name is John 984 00:46:39,780 --> 00:46:44,400 Lawson I'm a partner in the risk advisory group at Weaver 985 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,960 and just to kind of let you know what that means we look at 986 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,920 process so we review process 987 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,809 internal control similar to what an internal audit function 988 00:46:56,809 --> 00:46:57,760 might do so what 989 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,019 we've what we worked through was not digging into any one 990 00:47:02,019 --> 00:47:03,400 specific issue I 991 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,920 know y'all have had conversations much as Ethan mentioned 992 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,119 about some specific 993 00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:11,630 issues that have happened but to really try to understand 994 00:47:11,630 --> 00:47:12,639 the process the 995 00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:16,190 internal procedures behind some you know just general 996 00:47:16,190 --> 00:47:17,840 standardized operating 997 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,409 procedures and certain controls that you would expect to 998 00:47:22,409 --> 00:47:24,360 see or would like to see 999 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,320 that help make sure those procedures are executed the 1000 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,880 appropriate way every time 1001 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:35,030 they happen so you know we started off by having a you know 1002 00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:35,840 we started off just 1003 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,289 in meetings with with Ethan and different members of the 1004 00:47:39,289 --> 00:47:41,039 management team 1005 00:47:41,039 --> 00:47:45,010 trying to figure out well where are we going to focus this 1006 00:47:45,010 --> 00:47:45,920 project and and 1007 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,340 through those conversations and talking about just some of 1008 00:47:49,340 --> 00:47:50,119 the some of the 1009 00:47:50,119 --> 00:47:54,480 challenges and and in the middle of the transition wanted 1010 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,000 to evaluate some of 1011 00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,469 the processes we identified six areas that we were going to 1012 00:48:00,469 --> 00:48:01,639 focus on in our 1013 00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:06,610 review so the first one which we kind of came up with these 1014 00:48:06,610 --> 00:48:07,880 titles landfill 1015 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,239 commodity sales and cash collections so really what this is 1016 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:13,039 is you know 1017 00:48:13,039 --> 00:48:17,030 there's you come into the landfill you go through a scale 1018 00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:17,960 house there's 1019 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,170 procedures to to to weigh a vehicle to process that 1020 00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:23,719 transaction you have 1021 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,300 vehicles coming in and going out and how do we make sure 1022 00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:27,760 that that those what are 1023 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,460 the what are the processes and the controls to make sure 1024 00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:32,500 that we that we 1025 00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:37,239 record every transaction that we weigh every vehicle and we 1026 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,360 also included did a 1027 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,320 little bit of looking at where there's commodity 1028 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,559 specifically just metals where 1029 00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:48,000 there might be a market for selling these out of the 1030 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,260 landfill how do we do 1031 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:51,949 that and what are the controls that we use to make sure 1032 00:48:51,949 --> 00:48:52,719 that those are done 1033 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:59,619 properly when that happens there was as Ian as he as he 1034 00:48:59,619 --> 00:49:00,360 said that Ethan 1035 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,639 mentioned a lot of focus on just project management initi 1036 00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:07,199 ating a project 1037 00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:12,099 documenting the person the the protocol for a project what 1038 00:49:12,099 --> 00:49:13,000 is the the 1039 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,460 preparation the review the documentation evaluation of 1040 00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:17,840 initiating a project 1041 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,070 within the landfill and that could be really implementing a 1042 00:49:21,070 --> 00:49:21,840 new business 1043 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:27,449 initiative you know changing up processes construction 1044 00:49:27,449 --> 00:49:28,039 projects that 1045 00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:30,530 might happen on the landfill a lot of this could take a lot 1046 00:49:30,530 --> 00:49:31,199 of different 1047 00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:35,099 avenues but what you what we would what you want to see is 1048 00:49:35,099 --> 00:49:36,480 that there's some 1049 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,960 protocols and some procedures in place as we work up to 1050 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,639 approving a project and 1051 00:49:41,639 --> 00:49:45,869 then managing on a go-forward so we tried to get deep into 1052 00:49:45,869 --> 00:49:46,960 how this happens 1053 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,500 at the landfill and then associated with that a lot of 1054 00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:50,480 times you'll have 1055 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,519 contracts so we looked at you know contract management 1056 00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:55,360 recording and 1057 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,369 tracking within the landfill as well as part of this 1058 00:49:58,369 --> 00:49:59,860 process purchase 1059 00:49:59,860 --> 00:50:05,079 requisition this is not the centralized procurement 1060 00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:06,440 function of the city we were 1061 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,280 focused at at the landfill so kind of running up to before 1062 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:12,400 you would do 1063 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,840 procure of you know formal procurement what are the 1064 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,239 procedures internally to 1065 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,039 make sure that this is really something we need to purchase 1066 00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:21,000 that the sears not 1067 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,159 you know maybe another way that we could obtain these 1068 00:50:25,159 --> 00:50:27,400 materials and the 1069 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,230 authorization and documentation that happens within within 1070 00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:32,320 the landfill for 1071 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,739 purchasing budget preparation you know we talked about we 1072 00:50:37,739 --> 00:50:38,800 looked at the process 1073 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,719 internally within the landfill to develop their budget kind 1074 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:43,480 of up to the 1075 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,369 point where it's turned over to finance and then and then 1076 00:50:46,369 --> 00:50:47,480 consolidated into the 1077 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,920 budget with the city it was really the the specific 1078 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,360 procedures within solid 1079 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,199 ways to develop the budget for their department and and and 1080 00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:58,760 kind of monitor 1081 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,400 it on a go-forward and then we looked at fixed asset 1082 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,000 inventory and tracking and 1083 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,739 really what that was you know there's a lot of equipment 1084 00:51:06,739 --> 00:51:07,880 and assets out at the 1085 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,690 landfill and you know having an inventory of those and 1086 00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:12,360 tracking and 1087 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,440 utilization of those we tried to understand how that's done 1088 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,000 out at the 1089 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,840 landfill and then the last one is contract labor and 1090 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,719 overtime there's a 1091 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,619 lot of contract labor at the landfill and we looked at the 1092 00:51:26,619 --> 00:51:27,519 process for 1093 00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:32,360 engaging that labor monitoring what they do approving it as 1094 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:33,960 well as approval and 1095 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,539 tracking of overtime for the for the full-time staff at the 1096 00:51:37,539 --> 00:51:39,320 landfill so you 1097 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,389 know it was a lot of different processes and pieces that we 1098 00:51:43,389 --> 00:51:46,079 looked at and you 1099 00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:48,090 know what just to kind of be able to give you a little bit 1100 00:51:48,090 --> 00:51:49,000 more idea of what we 1101 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,699 actually did so we spent a lot of time on site at the 1102 00:51:54,699 --> 00:51:56,039 landfill and and with 1103 00:51:56,039 --> 00:52:00,940 Ethan's team from the management team to operations 1104 00:52:00,940 --> 00:52:02,880 supervisors to the to the 1105 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,559 folks working in the scale house we we walked all around 1106 00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:07,719 that place we had 1107 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,969 meetings with just about everybody I think and really we 1108 00:52:11,969 --> 00:52:13,360 wanted to understand 1109 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,010 how these processes occur we wanted that to talk to people 1110 00:52:17,010 --> 00:52:18,360 about how they're done 1111 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,929 we wanted to observe them being performed we wanted to see 1112 00:52:22,929 --> 00:52:23,840 when I have 1113 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,809 to log into a system to enter a transaction how does that 1114 00:52:26,809 --> 00:52:27,400 actually 1115 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,489 happen and what does the screen look like that where I 1116 00:52:31,489 --> 00:52:33,559 record that so we we 1117 00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:38,400 we were at the individuals workspace trying to observe and 1118 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:39,679 understand how 1119 00:52:39,679 --> 00:52:44,739 these activities occur and one of the key things that we 1120 00:52:44,739 --> 00:52:47,119 look for our internal 1121 00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:51,239 control so as we were preparing for our walkthroughs or our 1122 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:52,119 interviews we would 1123 00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:55,639 say well what are the what are the controls the activities 1124 00:52:55,639 --> 00:52:56,679 we would expect 1125 00:52:56,679 --> 00:53:00,340 to see that kind of give us ourselves and my team a 1126 00:53:00,340 --> 00:53:02,239 benchmark of you know if 1127 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,389 I'm gonna go if we're gonna do let's just take purchasing 1128 00:53:06,389 --> 00:53:07,480 for example if 1129 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,019 there's if we're gonna purchase something we'd expect to 1130 00:53:10,019 --> 00:53:10,480 see that 1131 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,829 there's a delegation of authority there are certain levels 1132 00:53:14,829 --> 00:53:16,159 of approval and those 1133 00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:20,119 are documented budgeting you would expect that there's 1134 00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:21,519 identification of 1135 00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:24,210 individuals that own certain parts of the budget that they 1136 00:53:24,210 --> 00:53:25,119 've worked through 1137 00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:28,570 that and there's approval of that we look at system 1138 00:53:28,570 --> 00:53:30,079 controls so we did some 1139 00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:33,699 evaluation of access who has what what are what are the 1140 00:53:33,699 --> 00:53:35,519 access privileges within 1141 00:53:35,519 --> 00:53:37,579 these systems that they use the landfill and what does that 1142 00:53:37,579 --> 00:53:39,480 allow people to do so 1143 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,099 we kind of trying to develop some expected controls that we 1144 00:53:42,099 --> 00:53:42,760 could use as a 1145 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,980 benchmark to when we went out into the field to evaluate 1146 00:53:46,980 --> 00:53:47,880 the activities that 1147 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,909 are actually happening and so we use that to map when we 1148 00:53:50,909 --> 00:53:51,960 looked for these 1149 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,889 controls and didn't have to match exactly what what we 1150 00:53:55,889 --> 00:53:57,519 thought we'd see we 1151 00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:00,260 were looking for the objective of that control being 1152 00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:01,639 achieved and so we mapped 1153 00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:07,789 those out and where where we saw a gap we we provided we 1154 00:54:07,789 --> 00:54:08,840 had an observation we 1155 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,800 provided what we call points for consideration or 1156 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:12,920 recommendations to 1157 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,329 management if we didn't see a control where we thought we 1158 00:54:17,329 --> 00:54:18,800 would see one that 1159 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:23,639 resulted in a recommendation or if we saw control or a step 1160 00:54:23,639 --> 00:54:24,800 in the process 1161 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,460 that we thought could be enhanced made more efficient that 1162 00:54:28,460 --> 00:54:29,320 resulted in a 1163 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:36,769 recommendation as well so all of our recommendations here 1164 00:54:36,769 --> 00:54:38,639 are risk rated as 1165 00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:44,789 high moderate or low which is a judgmental risk rating you 1166 00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:45,960 know it really 1167 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,400 something that's high would be if there was not a control 1168 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,199 somewhere where we 1169 00:54:50,199 --> 00:54:54,750 thought there needed to be one if we thought there were 1170 00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:56,320 gaps in the process 1171 00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,920 you know or lack of a formal process which we'll see some 1172 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,400 of the high-risk 1173 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,900 findings specifically where most of them are in the project 1174 00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:06,679 and contract 1175 00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:12,500 initiation and monitoring procedures formalization of 1176 00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:14,000 process so that people 1177 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,449 know what to do and how to do it that that those types of 1178 00:55:17,449 --> 00:55:18,719 things we would say 1179 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:23,179 you know that's a higher risk finding there's a likelihood 1180 00:55:23,179 --> 00:55:24,360 that you could 1181 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,880 have mistakes or errors without having some kind of formal 1182 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,079 procedure there or 1183 00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:32,250 controls to make sure that it's done the way the way you 1184 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:33,519 expect it to be every 1185 00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:39,019 time moderate would be you know maybe there's a control but 1186 00:55:39,019 --> 00:55:40,000 it's not really 1187 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,449 designed to fully address what it's supposed to or there's 1188 00:55:43,449 --> 00:55:44,199 some kind of 1189 00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:46,829 segregation of duties issue maybe you've got people that 1190 00:55:46,829 --> 00:55:48,079 have too many steps in 1191 00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:51,530 the process and we need to break that up lower risk 1192 00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:52,920 findings tend to be more 1193 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,619 operational this is something we could do to maybe gain 1194 00:55:56,619 --> 00:56:00,559 efficiency or better 1195 00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:05,750 utilize some of our systems or technology so what we found 1196 00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:06,960 is you know 1197 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,010 across these six areas there we found controls in all of 1198 00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:11,280 them even in some of 1199 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,409 the areas where there's not what I would say a formal 1200 00:56:15,409 --> 00:56:17,059 process talking to 1201 00:56:17,059 --> 00:56:21,289 different people there there are controls and things that 1202 00:56:21,289 --> 00:56:22,280 they would do 1203 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,519 that make sure you know these some some level of procedure 1204 00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:29,719 or review occurs may 1205 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,250 not be standardized but we did identify controls across all 1206 00:56:33,250 --> 00:56:34,360 of these areas and 1207 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400 for the most part we found some recommendations in all of 1208 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,320 these areas as 1209 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:49,760 well I was planning to focus on well these 10 items where 1210 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:50,840 what we would that 1211 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:55,789 we risk rated as high and kind of summarize these these 1212 00:56:55,789 --> 00:56:56,920 kind of more 1213 00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,309 significant findings for you guys so the first one and 1214 00:57:01,309 --> 00:57:05,039 really the first two here 1215 00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:12,489 relate to the landfill sales and commodity sales process 1216 00:57:12,489 --> 00:57:14,000 the first one is 1217 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:19,039 we're recommending a cost of service study and and really 1218 00:57:19,039 --> 00:57:20,280 what that is if 1219 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,909 when there's rates that are established out to landfill if 1220 00:57:23,909 --> 00:57:25,079 you come in and you 1221 00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:29,280 you go through the scale house your vehicle will be weighed 1222 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:30,000 you'll pay a 1223 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,909 rate to to dispose of your waste there are multiple rates 1224 00:57:34,909 --> 00:57:35,960 though you know let's 1225 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,650 let me let me give an example of say a refrigerator if I 1226 00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:41,480 want to dispose of a 1227 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,639 refrigerator at the landfill I believe it's $25 to drop it 1228 00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:47,039 off up I think 1229 00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:50,210 that's the rate but but there's a defined rate to dispose 1230 00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:51,079 of a refrigerator 1231 00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:55,469 well how did we come up with that rate is what we would ask 1232 00:57:55,469 --> 00:57:56,800 you know what is 1233 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,360 the what are the steps that we go through to establish that 1234 00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:02,400 rate does it 1235 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:07,340 cover our costs to receive store process properly dispose 1236 00:58:07,340 --> 00:58:08,800 of a refrigerator well I 1237 00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,530 don't personally know the answer to that question but but 1238 00:58:12,530 --> 00:58:13,960 having some kind of a 1239 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,860 study that supports the rates that we use is what we're 1240 00:58:18,860 --> 00:58:20,440 recommending so 1241 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,510 there's a lot of different rates they're established in the 1242 00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:25,400 paradigm system but 1243 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:30,309 having some kind of analysis of of what those rates are and 1244 00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:31,920 and how they cover 1245 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,800 the landfills costs and how we've determined that that's 1246 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:35,559 the appropriate 1247 00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:43,130 rate is the basis of this recommendation the second one is 1248 00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:44,800 enhanced system access 1249 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,789 controls within the paradigm application so at the scale 1250 00:58:49,789 --> 00:58:50,679 house and 1251 00:58:50,679 --> 00:58:55,420 within this process of you know processing transactions at 1252 00:58:55,420 --> 00:58:56,519 the landfill 1253 00:58:56,519 --> 00:59:01,440 people coming in using the landfill paying their fees 1254 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,039 recording those fees 1255 00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:07,369 in the system there's there's there's there's an 1256 00:59:07,369 --> 00:59:08,320 application that's used 1257 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,710 called paradigm and one of the things that we look at or 1258 00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:14,199 really anytime you're 1259 00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:17,320 considering internal control is there are the manual steps 1260 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:18,760 that happen so this 1261 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,869 is what I do as a person working in this process I come I 1262 00:59:22,869 --> 00:59:25,179 use the system I talk 1263 00:59:25,179 --> 00:59:29,199 to the customer the things that I would do but there's also 1264 00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:31,400 what you have the 1265 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,900 ability to do within the system and it might not be part of 1266 00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:36,119 your normal process 1267 00:59:36,119 --> 00:59:41,679 but access allows folks sometimes to do more than what they 1268 00:59:41,679 --> 00:59:43,519 should and just 1269 00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:46,610 because they don't necessarily know that or do it on a 1270 00:59:46,610 --> 00:59:48,559 regular basis doesn't mean 1271 00:59:48,559 --> 00:59:51,929 we don't want to restrict access it's a system control it's 1272 00:59:51,929 --> 00:59:53,239 a preventive control 1273 00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:59,019 that we can do so specifically you know we noticed that the 1274 00:59:59,019 --> 01:00:00,840 folks that can 1275 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,800 process transactions in the scale house also have the 1276 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:06,480 ability to change the 1277 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,539 rates and access within the system when we started digging 1278 01:00:10,539 --> 01:00:11,920 a little bit deeper 1279 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:16,920 really just needs a needs some fine-tuning to make sure 1280 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,079 that people 1281 01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:22,789 can't circumvent some of the good controls we do have in 1282 01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:24,199 that process by 1283 01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:27,639 by using some of their their access even though it's not 1284 01:00:27,639 --> 01:00:28,659 necessarily part of what 1285 01:00:28,659 --> 01:00:33,719 they would normally do and in in their part of the process 1286 01:00:33,719 --> 01:00:37,039 so the next five so 1287 01:00:37,039 --> 01:00:42,320 three through seven really all have to do with project 1288 01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:43,800 management and contract 1289 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:49,559 management and not not to rehash and I want to want to 1290 01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:50,440 clarify you know we 1291 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,099 didn't look at any of the specific issues that have 1292 01:00:54,099 --> 01:00:55,840 happened over you know 1293 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,630 mining or or the CNG facility that I know y'all have had a 1294 01:00:59,630 --> 01:01:01,280 lot of conversation 1295 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,300 about over recent months but some of the some of the back 1296 01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:06,960 office processes for 1297 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,340 those we did we did talk about with with the solid waste 1298 01:01:11,340 --> 01:01:13,159 team and and really 1299 01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:16,809 formally defining what constitutes a project is the first 1300 01:01:16,809 --> 01:01:19,559 step here so having 1301 01:01:19,559 --> 01:01:23,010 you want to get to having procedure and some standard 1302 01:01:23,010 --> 01:01:24,679 operating procedure and 1303 01:01:24,679 --> 01:01:28,840 control but it really starts with what having a definition 1304 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:29,760 of when that that 1305 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,480 procedure would would be required so you know it would be 1306 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,639 new business 1307 01:01:35,639 --> 01:01:41,119 initiatives capital projects on the landfill we've given 1308 01:01:41,119 --> 01:01:42,280 some recommendations 1309 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,869 to management of when this would specifically apply but it 1310 01:01:44,869 --> 01:01:45,360 's really 1311 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,469 having a documented clear definition of what a project is 1312 01:01:49,469 --> 01:01:50,480 so they can be 1313 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,380 communicated to the team at the landfill when we have an 1314 01:01:54,380 --> 01:01:55,800 issues like this or 1315 01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,519 initiatives like this we've got a protocol that kicks in 1316 01:01:59,519 --> 01:02:00,599 and so defining 1317 01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:04,070 that formally is really our first recommendation and a lot 1318 01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:04,480 of the 1319 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,559 following ones kind of key off of this first one initially 1320 01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:12,039 so another another 1321 01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:15,889 recommendation is having number five is I'm sorry number 1322 01:02:15,889 --> 01:02:18,000 four a business case 1323 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:23,539 analysis which we've provided some really specific kind of 1324 01:02:23,539 --> 01:02:25,039 detailed steps 1325 01:02:25,039 --> 01:02:30,360 steps to Ethan and the team on how to start to initiate 1326 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,320 this but it having 1327 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:37,920 having a staged approach so once once we we determine okay 1328 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:39,119 we've got a project 1329 01:02:39,119 --> 01:02:42,820 based on our definition of what a project is we're going to 1330 01:02:42,820 --> 01:02:43,480 go through a 1331 01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,039 protocol of what are what is the purpose of this project 1332 01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:50,079 why are we doing it is 1333 01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:53,849 it the result you know is it is it are we trying to be 1334 01:02:53,849 --> 01:02:55,639 innovative and we think 1335 01:02:55,639 --> 01:02:59,820 we can you know we think this could be a revenue source or 1336 01:02:59,820 --> 01:03:01,639 this could reduce our 1337 01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:06,909 cost or is this something that we need to do because there 1338 01:03:06,909 --> 01:03:07,880 's a new TCEQ 1339 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,170 regulation and we need to comply with it it could take a 1340 01:03:10,170 --> 01:03:11,360 lot of different things 1341 01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,630 but what's the driver for us wanting to do this project and 1342 01:03:15,630 --> 01:03:17,519 what are what's the 1343 01:03:17,519 --> 01:03:22,380 desired outcome documenting all this out formally so you 1344 01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:24,599 can have you know 1345 01:03:24,599 --> 01:03:29,329 conversations within all of the kind of key stakeholders in 1346 01:03:29,329 --> 01:03:30,800 the team is really 1347 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,420 kind of a first step and then say okay well here's kind of 1348 01:03:33,420 --> 01:03:34,079 an initial 1349 01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:38,000 documentation and expectation of what we want to achieve 1350 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:39,679 let's start with that 1351 01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:43,500 conversation and document it and then we start to move 1352 01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:44,840 forward into more more 1353 01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,670 detailed parts of the plan so what are the what are the 1354 01:03:48,670 --> 01:03:50,239 what are the risks or 1355 01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:53,199 the things that we think could go wrong what what are the 1356 01:03:53,199 --> 01:03:54,360 different options that 1357 01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,869 we're going to look at that we we know we think this might 1358 01:03:57,869 --> 01:03:58,920 be an avenue this 1359 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,369 could be an avenue what do we think the best way to go is 1360 01:04:02,369 --> 01:04:03,320 and why is it better 1361 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,679 than our other options what are the financial what's the 1362 01:04:07,679 --> 01:04:08,280 financial 1363 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:14,019 feasibility of this project revenues expenses running some 1364 01:04:14,019 --> 01:04:15,519 kind of sensitivity 1365 01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:22,179 analysis on different outcomes so so there's a there's a 1366 01:04:22,179 --> 01:04:24,400 full project and I 1367 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:29,690 guess evaluation business case analysis that we would like 1368 01:04:29,690 --> 01:04:31,239 to see or you know 1369 01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:34,780 that we've recommended be implemented and documented 1370 01:04:34,780 --> 01:04:36,360 thoroughly throughout an 1371 01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:43,460 internal preparation and review process the next one here 1372 01:04:43,460 --> 01:04:46,280 is again kind of once 1373 01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,639 you approve a project we have to manage it on a go-forward 1374 01:04:50,639 --> 01:04:54,480 so one thing we've 1375 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,059 we've recommended and and when you have you know 1376 01:04:58,059 --> 01:05:00,239 potentially multiple large 1377 01:05:00,239 --> 01:05:04,250 projects going on at one time having whether it's even just 1378 01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:05,239 one person or 1379 01:05:05,239 --> 01:05:11,090 multiple people someone that's focused on managing projects 1380 01:05:11,090 --> 01:05:12,440 and so that that 1381 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,960 knows what the timeline is what the milestones are what the 1382 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,159 expectations are 1383 01:05:17,159 --> 01:05:21,730 where we should be along the path of the project that's 1384 01:05:21,730 --> 01:05:23,559 really monitoring that as 1385 01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:27,070 a centralized component at the landfill is a right is is 1386 01:05:27,070 --> 01:05:28,760 what we're recommending 1387 01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:33,360 here so whether they're the specific project manager that's 1388 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:34,320 how executing the 1389 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,780 project could be different but someone that's overseeing 1390 01:05:37,780 --> 01:05:39,039 and making sure that 1391 01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:43,880 projects are where they need to be and if they're not how 1392 01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,039 are we going to get 1393 01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:53,360 them back on track so the next the next one item number six 1394 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:54,880 kind of really goes 1395 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,360 more and getting more into the contract part of what we 1396 01:05:58,360 --> 01:05:59,599 looked at here but the 1397 01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:03,079 really what what are we ask questions what what are the 1398 01:06:03,079 --> 01:06:04,400 different types of 1399 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:08,280 contracts we have what what are the different activities 1400 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:09,559 that would require 1401 01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:14,489 a contract and and you know having a clear definition so 1402 01:06:14,489 --> 01:06:16,000 that folks out at 1403 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,150 the landfill and the management team out there kind of 1404 01:06:19,150 --> 01:06:20,840 really knows what what do 1405 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,829 we when do we need to have a contract what constitutes a 1406 01:06:24,829 --> 01:06:26,880 contract is something 1407 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,980 we're recommending here and and and I would say this this 1408 01:06:30,980 --> 01:06:32,320 goes into this would 1409 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,760 include leases purchase contracts of which you know your 1410 01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:36,719 procurement team is 1411 01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:38,780 going to be involved in that at some point but you could 1412 01:06:38,780 --> 01:06:39,519 have purchase you 1413 01:06:39,519 --> 01:06:43,039 could have sale contracts you've definitely got leases but 1414 01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:45,239 but we need to 1415 01:06:45,239 --> 01:06:48,679 have the clear definition definition of when we would 1416 01:06:48,679 --> 01:06:50,119 expect a contract to be in 1417 01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:54,760 place and and then kind of adding on to that one number 1418 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,840 seven here is specific 1419 01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,880 levels of review and monitoring procedures for a contract 1420 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:02,840 so if we are 1421 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,719 going to enter into a lease of which there are multiple le 1422 01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:07,559 ases at the landfill 1423 01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:12,110 who needs to review that well I was I would assume it would 1424 01:07:12,110 --> 01:07:13,440 be management team 1425 01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:18,280 at the at the landfill but it might also be the general 1426 01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,199 counsel for the city 1427 01:07:20,199 --> 01:07:24,429 other members of senior management in the city so laying 1428 01:07:24,429 --> 01:07:25,519 out who are the 1429 01:07:25,519 --> 01:07:29,039 required people that need to review a contract and any kind 1430 01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:30,000 of form that could 1431 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,599 take as well as how are we going to inventory those 1432 01:07:34,599 --> 01:07:35,719 contracts so we know at 1433 01:07:35,719 --> 01:07:38,869 any given time what our contractual obligations are and who 1434 01:07:38,869 --> 01:07:40,400 they are to and 1435 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:45,300 being able to monitor those terms of the contract and you 1436 01:07:45,300 --> 01:07:47,239 know when does it expire 1437 01:07:47,239 --> 01:07:51,360 are we going to renew this and actively working to manage 1438 01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:52,800 that contract on a go 1439 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,989 forward we've provided some recommendations to management 1440 01:07:56,989 --> 01:07:57,239 on that 1441 01:07:57,239 --> 01:08:02,559 as well so that that that's a lot of meat there on the 1442 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:03,639 project management and 1443 01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:10,239 contract process from there number eight really was getting 1444 01:08:10,239 --> 01:08:11,460 more into the 1445 01:08:11,460 --> 01:08:15,469 budgeting process strategic budgeting and so really what we 1446 01:08:15,469 --> 01:08:16,039 're talking about 1447 01:08:16,039 --> 01:08:20,500 here is having some clear guidelines or expectations and 1448 01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:24,680 process on when we're 1449 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:29,079 developing the budget at the solid waste department 1450 01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:31,119 internally before it gets 1451 01:08:31,119 --> 01:08:34,029 pushed up the chain to finance and and consolidated with 1452 01:08:34,029 --> 01:08:35,119 the rest of the city 1453 01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:40,300 they have to develop their budget and you know what are the 1454 01:08:40,300 --> 01:08:40,760 different 1455 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,909 departments what are the different individuals that are 1456 01:08:42,909 --> 01:08:43,399 going to own 1457 01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:46,850 certain parts of the budget what's the timeline with which 1458 01:08:46,850 --> 01:08:47,640 the budget is going 1459 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:53,159 to be prepared you know what are what are the expectations 1460 01:08:53,159 --> 01:08:54,279 within the budget 1461 01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,970 and the documentation for certain assumptions so you know 1462 01:08:57,970 --> 01:08:59,399 you don't have 1463 01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:03,090 instances where it's just well we had we had that number 1464 01:09:03,090 --> 01:09:04,479 there last year so we're 1465 01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,720 not going to roll it forward we want assumptions if there's 1466 01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:08,520 going to be an 1467 01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,989 increase in cost for certain areas if there's large budget 1468 01:09:12,989 --> 01:09:14,239 line items that 1469 01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:18,270 have big values in them what what let's break this down let 1470 01:09:18,270 --> 01:09:19,159 's talk about what 1471 01:09:19,159 --> 01:09:24,159 really goes into this so that you have more of a strategic 1472 01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:25,560 initial budget but 1473 01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,010 it also helps you monitor the performance against your 1474 01:09:29,010 --> 01:09:30,920 budget in a more detailed 1475 01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:36,329 kind of progressive way as you go forward these last two 1476 01:09:36,329 --> 01:09:37,800 have to do with 1477 01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:43,220 contract labor and overtime a strategic staffing plan is 1478 01:09:43,220 --> 01:09:44,359 what we've recommended 1479 01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:49,270 here and it really gets into beyond just lay direct 1480 01:09:49,270 --> 01:09:51,680 contract labor and overtime 1481 01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:57,000 but more of a detailed analysis of you know how much time 1482 01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,479 does it take to 1483 01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:03,180 really operate the landfill and how much labor do we need 1484 01:10:03,180 --> 01:10:04,600 on a daily weekly 1485 01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,789 monthly annual basis what are those people in different 1486 01:10:08,789 --> 01:10:10,800 positions doing what 1487 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:15,810 do we need them to do at different levels what kind of 1488 01:10:15,810 --> 01:10:17,399 capacity do we know 1489 01:10:17,399 --> 01:10:21,630 we need because we can go from being really slow to really 1490 01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:22,640 busy in a very 1491 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,800 short amount of time and how much do we want to rely on how 1492 01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:28,079 much are we relying 1493 01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:31,840 on contract labor now how much do we want to be relying on 1494 01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:33,159 and you have a 1495 01:10:33,159 --> 01:10:37,489 benchmark not to say that it's would never deviate from the 1496 01:10:37,489 --> 01:10:39,119 plan but you have 1497 01:10:39,119 --> 01:10:43,810 some kind of expectation that you can then manage from so 1498 01:10:43,810 --> 01:10:45,199 that's that's that's 1499 01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:48,890 the that's the recommendation there and then really just 1500 01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:50,000 there is a lot of 1501 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:54,550 labor and overtime and having some more kind of oversight 1502 01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:58,399 and management of you 1503 01:10:58,399 --> 01:11:01,069 know be a bit of all of that but also looking back over 1504 01:11:01,069 --> 01:11:02,359 time and seeing where 1505 01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:07,779 where where are we using our direct labor what are we 1506 01:11:07,779 --> 01:11:10,680 asking them to do are 1507 01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,659 we happy with the service that we're getting why do we have 1508 01:11:14,659 --> 01:11:15,840 certain people 1509 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,390 maybe that are constantly working over time and is there 1510 01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:19,359 some more strategic 1511 01:11:19,359 --> 01:11:24,100 way we could do scheduling to reduce over time maybe do 1512 01:11:24,100 --> 01:11:25,960 some some staggered 1513 01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,859 scheduling that you have people coming in at different 1514 01:11:28,859 --> 01:11:30,359 times and reduce any one 1515 01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:37,949 individual working working over working over time so those 1516 01:11:37,949 --> 01:11:39,079 are kind of the key 1517 01:11:39,079 --> 01:11:43,640 our key findings the high the items that we dubbed as 1518 01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,039 higher risk from this point 1519 01:11:46,039 --> 01:11:48,569 forward in the presentation we've got supplemental 1520 01:11:48,569 --> 01:11:49,960 information here which I'm 1521 01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:55,039 happy to continue walking through if you if you would like 1522 01:11:55,039 --> 01:11:56,800 or I can stop here and 1523 01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:02,720 ask answer any questions yeah does anybody have looking 1524 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:02,960 through the 1525 01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,800 supplemental information I think you've touched upon the 1526 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,520 high priority items 1527 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:15,720 which is great but you know if there's any questions or 1528 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:16,760 concerns about some of 1529 01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:24,210 the moderate items or moderate risk recommendations or even 1530 01:12:24,210 --> 01:12:25,079 the low as far 1531 01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:36,529 as that goes or even more and just I gathered from the 1532 01:12:36,529 --> 01:12:37,319 information that 1533 01:12:37,319 --> 01:12:41,560 they're working on all of these high medium low yes ma'am 1534 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,119 so I believe once 1535 01:12:43,119 --> 01:12:47,039 I'm done talking Ethan has is gonna come and give you a 1536 01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:49,119 brief on all 21 high 1537 01:12:49,119 --> 01:12:53,960 medium low they're all they're working to respond to each 1538 01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,119 of them that is 1539 01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:58,560 correct well and I just want to say I think this is a 1540 01:12:58,560 --> 01:12:59,880 healthy thing for every 1541 01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:02,829 organization to go through and if you don't have high 1542 01:13:02,829 --> 01:13:04,760 moderate and low there's 1543 01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:09,210 probably something wrong so I think it's very healthy that 1544 01:13:09,210 --> 01:13:10,159 we identified these 1545 01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:17,729 things and I had a question about the process I was just 1546 01:13:17,729 --> 01:13:20,000 wondering did you 1547 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:29,699 work with the city auditor in this or to what extent we we 1548 01:13:29,699 --> 01:13:31,079 did not work with the 1549 01:13:31,079 --> 01:13:36,000 city auditor in this and well to the extent that the city 1550 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:36,920 auditor had done 1551 01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:41,250 some procedures out at the landfill prior to us coming on 1552 01:13:41,250 --> 01:13:43,319 site we we tried 1553 01:13:43,319 --> 01:13:47,880 to not duplicate that effort so we wanted to make sure that 1554 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:48,520 we were 1555 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,579 spending our time looking at you know not doing something 1556 01:13:52,579 --> 01:13:53,920 that had just been 1557 01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,520 done by the city auditor and really focusing on things 1558 01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:58,760 where we could where 1559 01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,270 we could be of best use to to to the city and to the 1560 01:14:02,270 --> 01:14:04,520 management team so from 1561 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,960 a standpoint of making sure we weren't duplicating effort 1562 01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:09,039 that was that was 1563 01:14:09,039 --> 01:14:14,680 definitely a consideration. I have a comment or maybe a 1564 01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:16,039 question it appears 1565 01:14:16,039 --> 01:14:20,520 that everything that was brought up and mentioned are 1566 01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,899 common-sense basic business 1567 01:14:23,899 --> 01:14:26,800 principles that I don't care if it's widgets or digits 1568 01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:27,859 people ought to be 1569 01:14:27,859 --> 01:14:33,100 doing. In sitting on this board over the last year and a 1570 01:14:33,100 --> 01:14:34,960 half I don't I'm not 1571 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,420 sure that there's not one area that we haven't had 1572 01:14:37,420 --> 01:14:38,479 presentations on so 1573 01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:42,810 somebody's looked at. Then they come to the board for 1574 01:14:42,810 --> 01:14:45,079 disclosure and comments and 1575 01:14:45,079 --> 01:14:48,529 then they go to City Council. So what I'm getting out of 1576 01:14:48,529 --> 01:14:49,560 this is that while you 1577 01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,140 found this high medium and low it's not that these things 1578 01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:55,840 aren't being looked at 1579 01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:59,819 but they're within the departments from a control 1580 01:14:59,819 --> 01:15:02,399 standpoint there's not as much 1581 01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:08,600 formality and in some cases procedure to monitor that on a 1582 01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,600 regular basis day to 1583 01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:16,159 day month to month. That's an accurate statement so you 1584 01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:16,960 know they're 1585 01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:21,859 still doing business out there and people are trying to do 1586 01:15:21,859 --> 01:15:22,600 their job and 1587 01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:27,670 what they they think they need to do but from when we come 1588 01:15:27,670 --> 01:15:29,920 in we're looking for 1589 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,489 kind of we're looking for standard process we're looking 1590 01:15:33,489 --> 01:15:34,359 for internal 1591 01:15:34,359 --> 01:15:39,770 control and we also want to see some kind of documentation 1592 01:15:39,770 --> 01:15:41,199 that that we can 1593 01:15:41,199 --> 01:15:45,119 roll so so I don't say oh this control you've got a control 1594 01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:46,279 here but the only 1595 01:15:46,279 --> 01:15:49,079 thing I can base that on is that somebody told me that they 1596 01:15:49,079 --> 01:15:50,279 do that. So 1597 01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:54,850 you know like you said there's there's there's business is 1598 01:15:54,850 --> 01:15:56,960 happening they're 1599 01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,869 there they're working through things they bring things here 1600 01:15:59,869 --> 01:16:00,539 for you all to 1601 01:16:00,539 --> 01:16:05,000 review. The level of documentation that we were able to see 1602 01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:06,479 that would support 1603 01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:09,989 kind of the the procedure and the review and the 1604 01:16:09,989 --> 01:16:13,000 preparation and the performance 1605 01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,779 of some of the controls you know that that's where some of 1606 01:16:16,779 --> 01:16:17,960 our review art some 1607 01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:21,090 of those moderate and lower risk recommendations go is to 1608 01:16:21,090 --> 01:16:22,079 formalizing and 1609 01:16:22,079 --> 01:16:27,340 documenting some of those procedures so that you know that 1610 01:16:27,340 --> 01:16:28,560 it just really helps 1611 01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,270 you make sure that they happen every single time and that 1612 01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:31,960 they happen 1613 01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:37,319 thoroughly and consistently. 1614 01:16:38,359 --> 01:16:48,590 Any other questions? No? Okay thank you. Thank you all very 1615 01:16:48,590 --> 01:16:48,920 much. Now the solution. 1616 01:16:48,920 --> 01:17:00,350 John gets the fun part of the presentation. I drew the 1617 01:17:00,350 --> 01:17:03,119 short end of the stick today. So I'm 1618 01:17:03,119 --> 01:17:06,210 gonna go through these at a fairly high level and so 1619 01:17:06,210 --> 01:17:07,359 certainly if you have 1620 01:17:07,359 --> 01:17:10,810 questions as we go through the staff responses and the 1621 01:17:10,810 --> 01:17:11,800 status feel free to 1622 01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:15,550 stop me. One of the things I'll say at the outset is is I 1623 01:17:15,550 --> 01:17:16,720 want to thank my 1624 01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:20,239 staff they spent a lot of time with John and his folks and 1625 01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:21,399 I'm continually 1626 01:17:21,399 --> 01:17:23,789 impressed about how open-minded everyone is out there. A 1627 01:17:23,789 --> 01:17:24,640 lot of this was 1628 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,079 challenging what they do every day. Show me how you do it 1629 01:17:27,079 --> 01:17:29,000 and I'm just always 1630 01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:32,920 really appreciate the the openness and the willingness to 1631 01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,079 go through these 1632 01:17:34,079 --> 01:17:36,340 processes and willingness to change and make no mistake we 1633 01:17:36,340 --> 01:17:37,000 have a lot of things 1634 01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,439 going on in the solid waste department right now. There's 1635 01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:41,640 21 of these here like 1636 01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,079 I said I'm gonna hit them at a very high level. Overall I 1637 01:17:45,079 --> 01:17:46,359 want to kind of echo 1638 01:17:46,359 --> 01:17:48,909 what John said though is that a lot of this comes down to 1639 01:17:48,909 --> 01:17:49,880 making sure that we 1640 01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,449 have clear roles, responsibilities, the delegation of 1641 01:17:52,449 --> 01:17:53,880 authority. I think in my 1642 01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,060 short time in solid waste that's one of the things that I 1643 01:17:56,060 --> 01:17:57,039 've seen is really one 1644 01:17:57,039 --> 01:17:59,819 of our biggest challenges is whose job is this? Because of 1645 01:17:59,819 --> 01:18:01,000 his five people's jobs 1646 01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:04,439 we have a real hard time staying consistent. That's 1647 01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:05,399 especially true when 1648 01:18:05,399 --> 01:18:08,399 it comes to contracts, project management is a lot of the 1649 01:18:08,399 --> 01:18:09,680 operations managers out 1650 01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,760 there were really relied upon to be the sole driver of 1651 01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:13,920 those ships and 1652 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,680 whenever that happens something has to give and I think 1653 01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:18,319 that's kind of what 1654 01:18:18,319 --> 01:18:20,810 we've seen in a lot of cases. The other thing is making 1655 01:18:20,810 --> 01:18:21,720 sure that we have those 1656 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,369 standard operating procedures. In some cases we're going to 1657 01:18:24,369 --> 01:18:25,159 be adhering to what 1658 01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:27,960 the city already does. In some cases we're going to build 1659 01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:28,640 some of this from 1660 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:32,840 scratch and so and lastly I would say like John said there 1661 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:33,640 's there's a routine 1662 01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,289 review of this type of stuff is and it's not just hiring 1663 01:18:36,289 --> 01:18:37,479 someone like Weaver to 1664 01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,420 come in and help us out it's my job the management staff's 1665 01:18:40,420 --> 01:18:41,560 job to make sure that 1666 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,680 we're keeping an eye on this stuff on a regular basis 1667 01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:44,840 making sure it's working 1668 01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,750 number one but then also making sure that people are adher 1669 01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:49,840 ing to it and when 1670 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,739 that doesn't happen we course correct and learn something 1671 01:18:52,739 --> 01:18:53,640 from that. So with 1672 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:55,920 that I'm going to go through these very quickly again stop 1673 01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:56,640 me if there's 1674 01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,060 something that piques your attention. PFC 01 again those 1675 01:19:00,060 --> 01:19:00,720 are points for 1676 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,260 consideration the first one was to formalize the process to 1677 01:19:03,260 --> 01:19:03,880 evaluate and 1678 01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:07,079 set tonnage rates. Like John said we are going to be 1679 01:19:07,079 --> 01:19:08,199 looking at a cost of service 1680 01:19:08,199 --> 01:19:10,420 review we actually have this within the procurement 1681 01:19:10,420 --> 01:19:11,760 department right now is 1682 01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,010 scheduled to go out for solicitation. A couple of things 1683 01:19:15,010 --> 01:19:16,020 that we need to do 1684 01:19:16,020 --> 01:19:19,619 ahead of this and we're actively working on is realigning 1685 01:19:19,619 --> 01:19:20,840 our business units 1686 01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,210 within our budget and also making sure that we're alloc 1687 01:19:23,210 --> 01:19:23,960 ating our costs 1688 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:27,630 correctly. So for instance my position is overhead I can 1689 01:19:27,630 --> 01:19:29,239 have a fairly big impact 1690 01:19:29,239 --> 01:19:31,989 if I allocate my cost incorrectly and that comes home to ro 1691 01:19:31,989 --> 01:19:32,720 ost with the rate 1692 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,460 payers and so our staffs done a fantastic job over the last 1693 01:19:35,460 --> 01:19:36,960 few months and we are 1694 01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,949 completing that process as we speak that tees us up for 1695 01:19:39,949 --> 01:19:41,119 that cost of service in 1696 01:19:41,119 --> 01:19:45,479 quarter two. PFC number two is evaluate the process for 1697 01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:46,359 accepting and monitoring 1698 01:19:46,359 --> 01:19:48,989 on-account customers and on-account customer is someone 1699 01:19:48,989 --> 01:19:49,680 essentially that 1700 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,560 we're extending credit to that could be somewhat large haul 1701 01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:53,560 er that does business 1702 01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,369 with us on a regular basis it could be someone that this is 1703 01:19:56,369 --> 01:19:57,199 the first time at 1704 01:19:57,199 --> 01:19:59,229 the landfill and they want to do business with us on a 1705 01:19:59,229 --> 01:20:00,000 temporary basis 1706 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,789 for the next three quarters. There's standards there that 1707 01:20:02,789 --> 01:20:03,920 exist we're not 1708 01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,359 consistently monitoring that and staying on top of it and 1709 01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:08,279 so we are going to be 1710 01:20:08,279 --> 01:20:10,859 assigning staff and making sure that that is something we 1711 01:20:10,859 --> 01:20:11,600 keep an eye on on 1712 01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:15,479 a regular basis. John mentioned a little bit earlier about 1713 01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:16,720 system controls and 1714 01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,109 making sure that the securities are in place I believe the 1715 01:20:19,109 --> 01:20:19,680 thing that he 1716 01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,920 mentioned is adjusting rates on the fly for folks at the 1717 01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:24,239 scale house this goes 1718 01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:27,199 back into clear roles and responsibilities delegation of 1719 01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:30,960 authority is who should be responsible for adjusting rates 1720 01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:32,159 if one needs to be 1721 01:20:32,159 --> 01:20:35,329 adjusted what is the thought process and the audit trail 1722 01:20:35,329 --> 01:20:37,199 behind that separation 1723 01:20:37,199 --> 01:20:39,180 of duties would tell you that whoever is handling the 1724 01:20:39,180 --> 01:20:40,039 billing should not be 1725 01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:43,720 handling the cash and so we have made some of those changes 1726 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:44,479 that if you are 1727 01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,380 adjusting rates you do not need to be in the scale house 1728 01:20:46,380 --> 01:20:47,119 that needs to go to 1729 01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:51,319 someone else. We have this is December 2017 I think that's 1730 01:20:51,319 --> 01:20:52,479 a pretty easy fix 1731 01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:55,930 for the most part but we do need to go through with tech 1732 01:20:55,930 --> 01:20:56,960 services and do a 1733 01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,359 securities review and make sure that we update all those 1734 01:20:59,359 --> 01:21:00,239 permissions in our 1735 01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:04,039 billing system. The next two are low priority you have 1736 01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:05,239 monitor commodity rates 1737 01:21:05,239 --> 01:21:09,399 that is mostly for like our metal sales sell of concrete 1738 01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:11,039 sell of soil we have a 1739 01:21:11,039 --> 01:21:13,840 number of revenue lines there if you will and we just want 1740 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:14,720 to make sure that 1741 01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,489 we're getting the best rate possible as we move through 1742 01:21:17,489 --> 01:21:18,920 those we have assigned a 1743 01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,340 business analyst to keep an eye on that and we will be fir 1744 01:21:21,340 --> 01:21:22,359 ming up that process 1745 01:21:22,359 --> 01:21:25,079 and formalizing that moving forward. This is also a great 1746 01:21:25,079 --> 01:21:26,199 opportunity for us to 1747 01:21:26,199 --> 01:21:29,489 look and say does this constitute a contract is do we want 1748 01:21:29,489 --> 01:21:30,560 to be playing the 1749 01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,279 commodities market on a regular basis and trying to strike 1750 01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:34,000 at an appropriate 1751 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,449 time or would we prefer to contract this out and have a 1752 01:21:37,449 --> 01:21:38,439 little bit more 1753 01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,880 stabilization on our revenues. So we'll be looking at that. 1754 01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:44,319 We also restrict flow 1755 01:21:44,319 --> 01:21:46,699 and track visitors entering and departing the landfill. We 1756 01:21:46,699 --> 01:21:47,319 actually have 1757 01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:50,090 what's known as a bypass lane at the landfill that is for 1758 01:21:50,090 --> 01:21:50,880 our folks that do 1759 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:54,050 frequent business with us they're not having to go through 1760 01:21:54,050 --> 01:21:54,720 and take up a 1761 01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,600 scale house attendees time on a regular basis they come in 1762 01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:58,520 enter their weights 1763 01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:00,819 they move through and then we build them at the end of the 1764 01:22:00,819 --> 01:22:01,560 month they're an 1765 01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,189 on-account customer. One of the things that we've seen 1766 01:22:04,189 --> 01:22:05,800 other landfills do is 1767 01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,489 kind of set up a toll tag system if you will where they 1768 01:22:09,489 --> 01:22:11,159 have the RFID tag comes 1769 01:22:11,159 --> 01:22:14,310 through a camera reads it snaps it they weigh and they're 1770 01:22:14,310 --> 01:22:15,920 on about their way one 1771 01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:17,550 of the things that we're going to be looking at for our 1772 01:22:17,550 --> 01:22:18,319 capital improvement 1773 01:22:18,319 --> 01:22:21,770 project or capital improvement budget in the years ahead is 1774 01:22:21,770 --> 01:22:22,760 should we redesign 1775 01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:26,470 our inbound and outbound lanes to be more efficient and to 1776 01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:27,399 also tighten up 1777 01:22:27,399 --> 01:22:30,850 some of these controls at the same time using RFID 1778 01:22:30,850 --> 01:22:33,079 technology. Talked a little 1779 01:22:33,079 --> 01:22:36,520 bit about formalizing the definition of a project John's 1780 01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:37,560 definition is very 1781 01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:41,630 accurate I think for us whenever I started we had a number 1782 01:22:41,630 --> 01:22:42,880 of initiatives 1783 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:44,579 that were defined as projects but I don't know that they 1784 01:22:44,579 --> 01:22:45,199 were necessarily 1785 01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:49,310 projects and whenever we do run across those and I'll hit 1786 01:22:49,310 --> 01:22:50,600 on this in the next 1787 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:52,930 slide is we want to make sure that there's business case 1788 01:22:52,930 --> 01:22:53,800 analysis for each 1789 01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,340 of these whether it's a new initiative like landfill mining 1790 01:22:56,340 --> 01:22:57,119 that turns into a 1791 01:22:57,119 --> 01:23:00,279 business unit or if it's something like compressed natural 1792 01:23:00,279 --> 01:23:01,319 gas vehicles that 1793 01:23:01,319 --> 01:23:06,159 there is a defined start in terms of initiation proposal 1794 01:23:06,159 --> 01:23:07,680 validation and then 1795 01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:10,399 project management if that does get the blessing of the PUB 1796 01:23:10,399 --> 01:23:11,840 and council. I think 1797 01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:15,130 a lot of this stuff was to the earlier point being brought 1798 01:23:15,130 --> 01:23:16,079 to PUB and the city 1799 01:23:16,079 --> 01:23:18,880 council one of the things that concerned me a little bit 1800 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,119 about some of that going 1801 01:23:20,119 --> 01:23:22,270 back through it is there wasn't a lot of diversity of 1802 01:23:22,270 --> 01:23:24,039 thought meaning that this 1803 01:23:24,039 --> 01:23:28,619 may have been one or two person projects that took it from 1804 01:23:28,619 --> 01:23:30,359 proposal to validation 1805 01:23:30,359 --> 01:23:34,159 to implementation the process that we've talked to Weaver 1806 01:23:34,159 --> 01:23:35,760 about is there needs to 1807 01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:39,270 be multiple checkpoints kind of a gatekeeper system if you 1808 01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:40,079 will of this 1809 01:23:40,079 --> 01:23:43,199 does not get past my desk unless it meets certain criteria 1810 01:23:43,199 --> 01:23:44,079 and so by the time 1811 01:23:44,079 --> 01:23:46,819 we bring something to the PUB or the city council we will 1812 01:23:46,819 --> 01:23:47,640 have gone through 1813 01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,550 all of those internal controls ourselves to make sure that 1814 01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:51,560 we have a very sound 1815 01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:55,550 product and that what you see is is really a consensus 1816 01:23:55,550 --> 01:23:57,000 effort on our part 1817 01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:00,600 that plays into number seven so I'm not going to repeat 1818 01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:02,319 there number eight was to 1819 01:24:02,319 --> 01:24:05,439 establish a project management office the project load that 1820 01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:06,239 we had several 1821 01:24:06,239 --> 01:24:09,789 months ago is very heavy we've scaled that down a great 1822 01:24:09,789 --> 01:24:10,680 deal you've seen a 1823 01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:14,119 couple of those that we brought forward we did have a 1824 01:24:14,119 --> 01:24:15,439 reorganization in August 1825 01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,800 that addressed a number of the roles and responsibility 1826 01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:18,760 deficiencies that we 1827 01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,329 found namely solid waste was without an administrative 1828 01:24:22,329 --> 01:24:24,159 office a lot of that fell 1829 01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:26,750 to the operations to do themselves and so you had a lot of 1830 01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:27,640 redundancy a lot 1831 01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:31,279 overlap a lot of confusion so we do have an administration 1832 01:24:31,279 --> 01:24:32,199 office now that we're 1833 01:24:32,199 --> 01:24:35,859 building up we also have a project manager position that we 1834 01:24:35,859 --> 01:24:36,640 created and 1835 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,449 that to that gatekeeper comment a moment ago this this is 1836 01:24:39,449 --> 01:24:40,760 really one of those key 1837 01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:44,560 positions that whenever you have a project that's got a 1838 01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:45,800 sponsor and we want 1839 01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,600 to submit it for further consideration this person is one 1840 01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:50,359 of those important 1841 01:24:50,359 --> 01:24:53,210 gatekeepers that says well let me sit down let's do kind of 1842 01:24:53,210 --> 01:24:53,960 a feasibility 1843 01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,760 study on this to see if it warrants a further financial 1844 01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:57,640 analysis and so 1845 01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,270 there's three or four of these types of positions in our 1846 01:25:00,270 --> 01:25:01,439 office now that we'll 1847 01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,939 kind of walk these through whenever a proposal is made same 1848 01:25:04,939 --> 01:25:06,079 thing with the 1849 01:25:06,079 --> 01:25:08,880 condition in which contracts should be utilized I think 1850 01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,479 just in general we are 1851 01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:13,930 working with legal and purchasing on a number of these we 1852 01:25:13,930 --> 01:25:15,039 have 50 plus 1853 01:25:15,039 --> 01:25:17,939 contracts within solid waste right now that we've gotten 1854 01:25:17,939 --> 01:25:18,880 our arms around a 1855 01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:21,579 couple of things that we're going to be doing is formal 1856 01:25:21,579 --> 01:25:23,159 izing how that initiation 1857 01:25:23,159 --> 01:25:26,960 review much like project management is you're gonna have 1858 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:28,319 those gatekeepers to 1859 01:25:28,319 --> 01:25:31,829 make sure that this is a passing muster and then that will 1860 01:25:31,829 --> 01:25:33,079 tie into the the city 1861 01:25:33,079 --> 01:25:38,939 process that involves legal and procurement down to PFC 11 1862 01:25:38,939 --> 01:25:39,680 we have 1863 01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,119 contract management procedures part of the task for the 1864 01:25:43,119 --> 01:25:44,359 administrative staff is 1865 01:25:44,359 --> 01:25:48,020 creating kind of a contract repository where we always have 1866 01:25:48,020 --> 01:25:49,720 eyes on this that 1867 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,380 would also alert us when a review is due a couple of PFCs 1868 01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:54,800 later on talk about 1869 01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:58,220 vendor performance there's not a consolidated way in solid 1870 01:25:58,220 --> 01:25:58,920 waste right now 1871 01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,409 in which we evaluate vendor performance you really have to 1872 01:26:01,409 --> 01:26:02,079 go dig into the 1873 01:26:02,079 --> 01:26:04,239 contract and say what what are they supposed to be doing 1874 01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:05,800 and so we want to 1875 01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,539 make sure that we have those out there in a repository that 1876 01:26:08,539 --> 01:26:09,640 that information is 1877 01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:13,380 easy to get to and easy to manage so that addresses 11 and 1878 01:26:13,380 --> 01:26:14,680 12 those are quarter 1879 01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:18,590 two completion dates currently that also goes into the 1880 01:26:18,590 --> 01:26:19,600 vendor performance like I 1881 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,060 mentioned that is something we'll probably need to partner 1882 01:26:22,060 --> 01:26:22,880 with procurement 1883 01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,239 and talk about how does that process work if we have a 1884 01:26:25,239 --> 01:26:26,159 vendor that's not 1885 01:26:26,159 --> 01:26:29,739 complying or maybe they're behind schedule we don't want to 1886 01:26:29,739 --> 01:26:30,359 go rogue and 1887 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:33,319 go out there and try to enforce contract terms on our own 1888 01:26:33,319 --> 01:26:34,239 we definitely need to 1889 01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:36,979 partner with legal and procurement on that so once we have 1890 01:26:36,979 --> 01:26:37,920 our bearings with 1891 01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:41,359 our contract management we will circle back with them the 1892 01:26:41,359 --> 01:26:42,399 verification of a 1893 01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:45,529 purchase requisition that one was kind of low-hanging fruit 1894 01:26:45,529 --> 01:26:46,359 there was not a 1895 01:26:46,359 --> 01:26:49,529 formal process for how requisitions were requested before 1896 01:26:49,529 --> 01:26:51,000 there were two or three 1897 01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,239 people that could open a purchase order we've restricted 1898 01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:54,159 that and centralized 1899 01:26:54,159 --> 01:26:56,750 that to where there's only one or two and there's a 1900 01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:58,119 prescribed way in which 1901 01:26:58,119 --> 01:27:02,359 those are submitted approved verified the whole nine yards 1902 01:27:02,359 --> 01:27:03,760 so that one's 1903 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,659 complete one of the things I will say even on these that 1904 01:27:06,659 --> 01:27:08,079 are complete doesn't 1905 01:27:08,079 --> 01:27:11,560 mean that we're done and we're gonna walk away a lot of 1906 01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,720 this this is a great 1907 01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:17,439 example is these forms are submitted via email right now I 1908 01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:18,640 'm not a big fan of 1909 01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,380 email it doesn't have a great audit trail on it so a lot of 1910 01:27:21,380 --> 01:27:22,279 these we really 1911 01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:26,420 want to try to formalize and standardize and then automate 1912 01:27:26,420 --> 01:27:27,239 how some of these 1913 01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,529 processes work that you have not only the audit trail but 1914 01:27:30,529 --> 01:27:31,560 we also have some 1915 01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:34,810 reporting and it gives them the managers and also myself 1916 01:27:34,810 --> 01:27:36,119 with a higher degree of 1917 01:27:36,119 --> 01:27:39,689 visibility and a little bit more accountability as we move 1918 01:27:39,689 --> 01:27:40,520 through in 1919 01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:44,039 terms of reporting with paradigm we are going to be working 1920 01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:44,840 through and 1921 01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:47,920 establishing a routine reporting for both operational 1922 01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:49,239 financial performance 1923 01:27:49,239 --> 01:27:52,680 data we're data driven environment and we have a lot of 1924 01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:53,840 data but not a lot of 1925 01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:56,640 information and that's something that is going to be a work 1926 01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:57,600 in progress for us 1927 01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:01,430 over the next 12 to 18 months the budget preparation 1928 01:28:01,430 --> 01:28:02,479 process like John 1929 01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:05,489 highlighted we have corrected that deficiency one of the 1930 01:28:05,489 --> 01:28:06,479 biggest issues we 1931 01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,430 had was there was not security locked down on budget 1932 01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:10,680 documents and so some of 1933 01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,350 the financial analysts we go into that document say well 1934 01:28:13,350 --> 01:28:14,319 how did that number 1935 01:28:14,319 --> 01:28:17,770 get there and it wasn't anything deviant an operations 1936 01:28:17,770 --> 01:28:18,720 manager was simply 1937 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,399 updating information as they got it they were trying to be 1938 01:28:21,399 --> 01:28:22,640 helpful but it really 1939 01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:24,890 put us in a challenging environment of well if I don't know 1940 01:28:24,890 --> 01:28:25,720 where that number 1941 01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,340 came from I can't source it how am I going to defend it and 1942 01:28:28,340 --> 01:28:29,560 so we have locked 1943 01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,359 that down there is a formalized process for budget 1944 01:28:32,359 --> 01:28:34,079 preparation that goes through 1945 01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:38,350 17 and 18 as well is there is a strategic budgeting process 1946 01:28:38,350 --> 01:28:38,960 that we are 1947 01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,800 in the currently in progress right now we're going through 1948 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:44,199 our CIP budget as we 1949 01:28:44,199 --> 01:28:47,680 speak essentially there's three to four series of meetings 1950 01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:49,000 from myself the 1951 01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,000 financial analyst all the operations managers where we 1952 01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:53,159 really go through and 1953 01:28:53,159 --> 01:28:55,979 vet this out and make sure that there's that diversity of 1954 01:28:55,979 --> 01:28:57,039 thought there's 1955 01:28:57,039 --> 01:28:59,670 dialogue and that this isn't something that we're throwing 1956 01:28:59,670 --> 01:29:00,760 together at the last 1957 01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,779 minute and so I think we are going to have a much better 1958 01:29:03,779 --> 01:29:04,640 product coming 1959 01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,079 forward through the budget process moving forward and 1960 01:29:08,079 --> 01:29:09,119 something that we all 1961 01:29:09,119 --> 01:29:14,880 have some buy-in as an input into lastly a couple of things 1962 01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:15,399 here 1963 01:29:15,399 --> 01:29:18,109 utilization monitoring for equipment this is the fixed 1964 01:29:18,109 --> 01:29:19,199 asset finding that we 1965 01:29:19,199 --> 01:29:22,960 were identified is we have a lot of equipment for lack of a 1966 01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:23,800 better term 1967 01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,699 we're a transportation department we just don't transport 1968 01:29:26,699 --> 01:29:27,840 people we transport 1969 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:32,680 garbage and recycling so they're much less vocal whenever 1970 01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:34,039 they get in the back 1971 01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:37,819 versus a taxi maybe but in terms of transporting that 1972 01:29:37,819 --> 01:29:39,279 around it's really 1973 01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:41,779 important for us that our vehicles that we manage that 1974 01:29:41,779 --> 01:29:43,279 fleet effectively that we 1975 01:29:43,279 --> 01:29:46,250 keep a close eye on one of our maintenance our repair costs 1976 01:29:46,250 --> 01:29:46,680 when is the 1977 01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,250 appropriate time for us to replace vehicles and so we are 1978 01:29:49,250 --> 01:29:49,800 utilizing 1979 01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:53,539 utilization guides and reports to make those decisions now 1980 01:29:53,539 --> 01:29:54,720 we think that that 1981 01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,609 will make a big difference in this year's budget and it's 1982 01:29:56,609 --> 01:29:57,199 something that 1983 01:29:57,199 --> 01:30:00,829 we're eager to share with the PUB and the City Council as 1984 01:30:00,829 --> 01:30:02,640 it develops lastly 1985 01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:05,430 talked about the strategic staffing plan and oversight for 1986 01:30:05,430 --> 01:30:06,399 contract labor and 1987 01:30:06,399 --> 01:30:10,729 overtime following the closure of the mining operation we 1988 01:30:10,729 --> 01:30:11,520 did decrease our 1989 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:15,579 contract labor a great deal we went from about 14 to 15 on 1990 01:30:15,579 --> 01:30:17,279 average contract 1991 01:30:17,279 --> 01:30:20,020 labor per day now we're down to about four one of the 1992 01:30:20,020 --> 01:30:21,279 things that we are going 1993 01:30:21,279 --> 01:30:24,729 to be looking for in the next two to three months is that 1994 01:30:24,729 --> 01:30:25,800 strategic staffing 1995 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:29,409 evaluation and creating an operational model that we can 1996 01:30:29,409 --> 01:30:30,600 use as managers as 1997 01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,140 directors to guide our day-to-day operations it's really 1998 01:30:34,140 --> 01:30:35,079 taking us from 1999 01:30:35,079 --> 01:30:37,979 being in a reactive situation which gets you into that 2000 01:30:37,979 --> 01:30:39,479 contract labor that over 2001 01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:42,100 time is I didn't anticipate this happening today I need to 2002 01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:42,479 go find 2003 01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:45,220 workers to get this stuff done we want to be in a more 2004 01:30:45,220 --> 01:30:46,680 proactive situation more 2005 01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,130 proactive posture where we say I anticipated that and this 2006 01:30:49,130 --> 01:30:49,680 is how we're 2007 01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,760 going to address it so that's really the goal with with it 2008 01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:54,159 and I'm confident that 2009 01:30:54,159 --> 01:30:57,600 as we work through that we will probably see some further 2010 01:30:57,600 --> 01:30:59,159 organizational changes 2011 01:30:59,159 --> 01:31:02,500 moving folks from one operation or maybe one responsibility 2012 01:31:02,500 --> 01:31:04,159 to another and then 2013 01:31:04,159 --> 01:31:06,699 hopefully in turn what we will see is a reduction in 2014 01:31:06,699 --> 01:31:08,039 contract labor as well as 2015 01:31:08,039 --> 01:31:11,520 over time for our staff I know that's a lot of information 2016 01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:12,439 to take in I hit it 2017 01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:16,039 really fast so I'm happy to stand for any questions that 2018 01:31:16,039 --> 01:31:17,960 you might have 2019 01:31:19,119 --> 01:31:29,770 questions you guys been busy yeah you know can you go back 2020 01:31:29,770 --> 01:31:32,640 to the like the 2021 01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,880 first slide it was maybe there second slide I'm sorry yeah 2022 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,000 the the business 2023 01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:42,439 case analysis obviously I mean that's that's kind of on 2024 01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:43,279 everybody's mind 2025 01:31:43,279 --> 01:31:50,850 given you know we had to make a decision on landfill mining 2026 01:31:50,850 --> 01:31:52,640 and who knows if we'd 2027 01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:55,710 had that before I'm not trying to second-guess anybody but 2028 01:31:55,710 --> 01:31:56,399 as it turned 2029 01:31:56,399 --> 01:32:01,470 out but but I think that's before we you know I don't want 2030 01:32:01,470 --> 01:32:02,560 to kill the 2031 01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:05,979 innovation that we've had at the landfill because I think 2032 01:32:05,979 --> 01:32:06,760 we've done some 2033 01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:11,600 great things there but at the same time I'm glad to see 2034 01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:13,079 having a project 2035 01:32:13,079 --> 01:32:16,500 management office and also the business case analysis that 2036 01:32:16,500 --> 01:32:17,760 's more formal process 2037 01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:22,789 now I'm encouraged by that and having a business case doesn 2038 01:32:22,789 --> 01:32:23,640 't necessarily 2039 01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:29,189 decrease innovation it just correct correct has diversity 2040 01:32:29,189 --> 01:32:30,279 of thought is well 2041 01:32:30,279 --> 01:32:32,829 sometimes a business case analysis might be how much money 2042 01:32:32,829 --> 01:32:33,680 can you make or how 2043 01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:37,520 much money do you expect to lose yeah and put a price on it 2044 01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:38,920 so that's that's 2045 01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,430 but you got to know right you got and I think the 2046 01:32:41,430 --> 01:32:43,079 interesting thing to to kind 2047 01:32:43,079 --> 01:32:46,500 of bring staff into this is the CNG the mining both of 2048 01:32:46,500 --> 01:32:47,800 those operations there 2049 01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:52,130 were split opinions within our office even as I got there 2050 01:32:52,130 --> 01:32:53,520 and so I think back 2051 01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:55,819 to the diversity of thought and making sure that you convey 2052 01:32:55,819 --> 01:32:56,560 risk and that you 2053 01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,039 understand it and that you try to put a dollar amount to it 2054 01:32:59,039 --> 01:32:59,600 that's really 2055 01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,039 critical and that really flows straight into business case 2056 01:33:03,039 --> 01:33:03,920 analysis is it's our 2057 01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,550 duty to be innovative but it's also our duty to convey what 2058 01:33:06,550 --> 01:33:07,359 the risk are and 2059 01:33:07,359 --> 01:33:09,539 then allow this board as well as the City Council to make 2060 01:33:09,539 --> 01:33:10,600 those decisions on 2061 01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:14,140 do we want to allocate our funds in that and is the return 2062 01:33:14,140 --> 01:33:15,760 worth it so and this 2063 01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:20,430 is something that you're doing citywide yes and I guess we 2064 01:33:20,430 --> 01:33:22,600 recently also just 2065 01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,569 set up and established a chief procurement officer function 2066 01:33:25,569 --> 01:33:25,899 in a 2067 01:33:25,899 --> 01:33:28,689 contract compliance officer function as well one of the 2068 01:33:28,689 --> 01:33:29,760 things well I think 2069 01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:31,899 Ethan's doing a good job getting you know improving the 2070 01:33:31,899 --> 01:33:32,960 process on the front end 2071 01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:35,970 really the back end is where we're having more of the 2072 01:33:35,970 --> 01:33:37,399 issues in terms of you know 2073 01:33:37,399 --> 01:33:40,850 we recently did an inventory and had just under a thousand 2074 01:33:40,850 --> 01:33:41,760 active managed 2075 01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:45,890 actively managed contracts leases that sort of thing within 2076 01:33:45,890 --> 01:33:47,680 the city and my 2077 01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:51,119 concern was is are people assigned to those particular 2078 01:33:51,119 --> 01:33:51,760 contracts are we 2079 01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:55,199 closing them out properly are we enforcing the provision so 2080 01:33:55,199 --> 01:33:55,880 we've got a 2081 01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:58,510 team now that is set up and actually housed in our office 2082 01:33:58,510 --> 01:33:59,359 which is why you 2083 01:33:59,359 --> 01:34:02,880 see the construction that is going to be working with all 2084 01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:03,600 the department 2085 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,279 directors to make sure that the best practices are brought 2086 01:34:07,279 --> 01:34:08,119 to them and that 2087 01:34:08,119 --> 01:34:11,119 we're giving the proper training out to our staffs as well 2088 01:34:11,119 --> 01:34:12,199 so I really applaud 2089 01:34:12,199 --> 01:34:15,649 Ethan and his team for embracing all these recommendations 2090 01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:16,520 moving forward it 2091 01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:20,479 really will help set a template for everyone else 2092 01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:26,399 good very good thank you certainly City Council received 2093 01:34:26,399 --> 01:34:27,359 the same presentation 2094 01:34:27,359 --> 01:34:29,500 next week and then it would be our intention that we circle 2095 01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:30,000 back at some 2096 01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,199 point in the future let you know how we've progressed 2097 01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:33,199 through the remainder of 2098 01:34:33,199 --> 01:34:37,199 the recommendations we haven't implemented yet it's good 2099 01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:38,119 thank you very 2100 01:34:38,119 --> 01:34:52,829 much thank you okay now let's since we we went over item B 2101 01:34:52,829 --> 01:34:53,680 so let's let's go 2102 01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:58,109 back to item B which is to receive a report hold discussion 2103 01:34:58,109 --> 01:34:59,319 and give staff 2104 01:34:59,319 --> 01:35:02,430 direction regarding the credit and collection policy of the 2105 01:35:02,430 --> 01:35:03,159 city utility 2106 01:35:03,159 --> 01:35:12,430 system good morning I'm Tiffany Thompson the customer 2107 01:35:12,430 --> 01:35:13,800 service manager and coming 2108 01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:16,539 back with a follow-up presentation in regards to credit and 2109 01:35:16,539 --> 01:35:17,720 collections so a 2110 01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,409 little bit of background in November of 2010 we did approve 2111 01:35:20,409 --> 01:35:21,199 an ordinance that 2112 01:35:21,199 --> 01:35:24,359 changed our credit and collection policies this was due to 2113 01:35:24,359 --> 01:35:25,119 the high debt 2114 01:35:25,119 --> 01:35:28,760 that we had we had about 1.4 million and I wait and no nine 2115 01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:30,000 and that was due to 2116 01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,439 an affectionate ineffective credit collection policy 2117 01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:34,039 specifically with 2118 01:35:34,039 --> 01:35:37,989 credit scoring deposits and fees and so after the last 2119 01:35:37,989 --> 01:35:39,520 couple years we've seen 2120 01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:43,659 a reduction in our uncollectible debt for 1516 it went down 2121 01:35:43,659 --> 01:35:44,439 to five hundred and 2122 01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,239 thirty six thousand dollars in our overall delinquent 2123 01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:48,039 accounts has 2124 01:35:48,039 --> 01:35:51,630 decreased by 34 percent since that time and so last month 2125 01:35:51,630 --> 01:35:52,760 we came before the 2126 01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,050 board and City Council to let you know about the progress 2127 01:35:56,050 --> 01:35:57,199 of that and so today 2128 01:35:57,199 --> 01:35:58,979 we're just going to follow up on a couple of items from 2129 01:35:58,979 --> 01:35:59,720 that presentation 2130 01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:03,170 and then get direction from you and council tomorrow so the 2131 01:36:03,170 --> 01:36:04,520 focus areas for 2132 01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:07,260 this morning is to talk about the meter and billing cycles 2133 01:36:07,260 --> 01:36:08,260 some of the survey 2134 01:36:08,260 --> 01:36:11,409 comparisons that we did how we do fair and credit fair 2135 01:36:11,409 --> 01:36:12,840 credit scoring our 2136 01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,829 overview of our fees and how we're going to review deposit 2137 01:36:15,829 --> 01:36:16,920 options and what we 2138 01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,420 may want to do with those if we have any changes and then 2139 01:36:19,420 --> 01:36:20,640 additional funding to 2140 01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,180 the plus one program so first on the meter and billing 2141 01:36:24,180 --> 01:36:25,479 cycles didn't municipal 2142 01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:28,250 electric does utilize two different type of AMI meters you 2143 01:36:28,250 --> 01:36:29,119 have the AMI meter 2144 01:36:29,119 --> 01:36:33,520 that has remote reads and two-way disconnections 47% of the 2145 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:33,800 meters 2146 01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:38,000 deployed right now are the AMI meters 53% are the AMI 2147 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,880 disconnect meters which 2148 01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:42,979 allows for the two-way communication in addition to being 2149 01:36:42,979 --> 01:36:44,079 able to connect and 2150 01:36:44,079 --> 01:36:47,520 reconnect remotely or disconnect pardon me and reconnect 2151 01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,119 remotely and so in 2152 01:36:50,119 --> 01:36:53,560 addition to that whenever they go out to read the meters 2153 01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:54,920 the water meters are 2154 01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:57,739 physically read and so we do have the capability to do 2155 01:36:57,739 --> 01:36:59,039 remotely with electric 2156 01:36:59,039 --> 01:37:02,489 but again just the water is physically read out in the 2157 01:37:02,489 --> 01:37:04,079 field so we do have our 2158 01:37:04,079 --> 01:37:08,409 cycles build out into 21 different cycles so we can go out 2159 01:37:08,409 --> 01:37:09,239 to the different 2160 01:37:09,239 --> 01:37:13,319 places in the city everyone's has a specific cycle assigned 2161 01:37:13,319 --> 01:37:14,000 to them so they 2162 01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:16,399 can go out and read that meter and then we build it 2163 01:37:16,399 --> 01:37:18,640 accordingly and we have it 2164 01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:21,609 distributed out that way so we can be able to handle the 2165 01:37:21,609 --> 01:37:22,680 workload and also 2166 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:25,920 with the customers calling in to us we can actually kind of 2167 01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:26,800 spread that out 2168 01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,239 throughout the month versus the first or 15th due date or 2169 01:37:30,239 --> 01:37:31,079 payment arrangement 2170 01:37:31,079 --> 01:37:34,600 date with that and then we also have a greater flexibility 2171 01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:35,600 now with our 2172 01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,060 payments we implemented a new payment portal this last 2173 01:37:39,060 --> 01:37:39,960 summer that allows 2174 01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:42,390 customers to go in and schedule their payments if they do 2175 01:37:42,390 --> 01:37:43,239 have that need for 2176 01:37:43,239 --> 01:37:46,390 the first of the 15th they're able to do that and also 2177 01:37:46,390 --> 01:37:47,479 setting up reoccurring 2178 01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:50,470 payments we have a budget billing and so we have a 2179 01:37:50,470 --> 01:37:52,920 different additional payment 2180 01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:56,090 methods to give our customers greater flexibility now and 2181 01:37:56,090 --> 01:37:57,199 then if we did 2182 01:37:57,199 --> 01:38:00,619 change to a first or 15th due date or payment arrangement 2183 01:38:00,619 --> 01:38:01,640 cycle that actually 2184 01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:05,449 would influence the number of accounts that would go into a 2185 01:38:05,449 --> 01:38:06,560 past due status 2186 01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,029 just because you wouldn't be able to disconnect them on a 2187 01:38:09,029 --> 01:38:09,760 regular basis 2188 01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:12,779 because we do disconnects about three times a week right 2189 01:38:12,779 --> 01:38:13,760 now and so having 2190 01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:17,199 that set first or 15th would create a lot of manual 2191 01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:18,520 processes and some 2192 01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:21,109 customers would actually actually experience about three 2193 01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:21,760 bills on their 2194 01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:25,359 account and so that is just a little bit of information on 2195 01:38:25,359 --> 01:38:26,439 why we bill how we 2196 01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:30,880 bill and why we spread it out into multiple cycles 2197 01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:31,960 throughout this 2198 01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,579 presentation we did survey comparisons with eight 2199 01:38:34,579 --> 01:38:36,039 comparable cities to us and 2200 01:38:36,039 --> 01:38:38,350 so you're just going to see some of that data throughout 2201 01:38:38,350 --> 01:38:39,199 this I just wanted to 2202 01:38:39,199 --> 01:38:42,770 illustrate the cities that we did get information from and 2203 01:38:42,770 --> 01:38:43,880 it's also included 2204 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:47,600 in the backup so in regards to compliance and credit 2205 01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:48,359 scoring the city 2206 01:38:48,359 --> 01:38:51,390 does utilize online utility exchange to make sure that we 2207 01:38:51,390 --> 01:38:52,479 are compliant we do 2208 01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:54,930 have to be red flag compliant meaning when a customer comes 2209 01:38:54,930 --> 01:38:55,640 into the utility 2210 01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:59,159 system we have to identify verify their social security 2211 01:38:59,159 --> 01:39:01,079 number and their IDs in 2212 01:39:01,079 --> 01:39:04,649 order to make sure that we're mitigating any type of fraud 2213 01:39:04,649 --> 01:39:06,359 or identity theft with 2214 01:39:06,359 --> 01:39:09,829 that in addition what we glean from that is an assessment 2215 01:39:09,829 --> 01:39:10,680 of the customer's 2216 01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,840 credit that's coming into our system and so we're able to 2217 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:14,880 deem do we need to 2218 01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:17,680 charge them a deposit is it waived what deposit would be 2219 01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:18,560 appropriate for that 2220 01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,630 customer coming in and how that is assessed is through a 2221 01:39:21,630 --> 01:39:22,800 vantage score and 2222 01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:25,699 advantage score is different than a FACA score the vantage 2223 01:39:25,699 --> 01:39:27,039 score does have data 2224 01:39:27,039 --> 01:39:30,979 from all three credit agencies Equifax TransUnion and Exper 2225 01:39:30,979 --> 01:39:32,119 ian and the 2226 01:39:32,119 --> 01:39:35,300 vantage score is different from the FACA score because it 2227 01:39:35,300 --> 01:39:36,800 is soft credit pool on 2228 01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,149 that customer's report so that means that the customer does 2229 01:39:39,149 --> 01:39:39,479 not get 2230 01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:43,100 adversely affected by having us pull it that way and it's 2231 01:39:43,100 --> 01:39:44,279 also much more cost 2232 01:39:44,279 --> 01:39:47,050 effective if we were to pull it based off of a FACA score 2233 01:39:47,050 --> 01:39:48,119 it would cost about 2234 01:39:48,119 --> 01:39:51,560 ten dollars to do that and it would be a hard credit pull 2235 01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:52,640 on their credit so this 2236 01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:55,810 is why we utilize the vantage score and for any customers 2237 01:39:55,810 --> 01:39:57,319 that we do assess a 2238 01:39:57,319 --> 01:39:59,760 deposit to they're providing an adverse letter that lets 2239 01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:01,239 them know the score the 2240 01:40:01,239 --> 01:40:03,689 contributing factors to that score and how they can get 2241 01:40:03,689 --> 01:40:04,880 additional information 2242 01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:08,579 so for the cities that we surveyed 33% of the cities do 2243 01:40:08,579 --> 01:40:09,960 have a credit 2244 01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:12,510 scoring module like the one that we use and do offer 2245 01:40:12,510 --> 01:40:13,619 ability to waive the 2246 01:40:13,619 --> 01:40:17,130 deposits 45% do not use a credit scoring and have one 2247 01:40:17,130 --> 01:40:18,560 option to waive the deposit 2248 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:21,560 and 22% of the cities do not have the credit scoring but 2249 01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:22,520 they charge you a 2250 01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,420 mandatory deposit meaning regardless of your credit history 2251 01:40:25,420 --> 01:40:26,239 you would still be 2252 01:40:26,239 --> 01:40:30,829 charged a deposit and I wanted to note that and whenever we 2253 01:40:30,829 --> 01:40:32,359 expand the sample 2254 01:40:32,359 --> 01:40:35,810 of cities that we benchmark it actually was much higher 2255 01:40:35,810 --> 01:40:37,520 almost 64% use a credit 2256 01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:40,340 scoring module but for the purpose of this presentation we 2257 01:40:40,340 --> 01:40:41,239 kept it to the 8 2258 01:40:41,239 --> 01:40:44,119 but I thought that was worthy to note and then also the 2259 01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:45,439 city of Denton offers 2260 01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:47,939 the most amount of options to be able to waive a deposit 2261 01:40:47,939 --> 01:40:49,239 out of the surveyed city 2262 01:40:49,239 --> 01:40:52,289 we had the letter of credit, co-signer form and also if you 2263 01:40:52,289 --> 01:40:53,239 set up reoccurring 2264 01:40:53,239 --> 01:40:55,829 draft with a credit or checking account will waive the 2265 01:40:55,829 --> 01:40:57,020 deposit so we have three 2266 01:40:57,020 --> 01:41:03,710 options where most only have one. So in regards to fees 2267 01:41:03,710 --> 01:41:05,039 what we have found 2268 01:41:05,039 --> 01:41:08,180 through the survey is the fee structure is highly variable 2269 01:41:08,180 --> 01:41:09,479 and depending on the 2270 01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:12,250 city with this and so what we found is we were right there 2271 01:41:12,250 --> 01:41:13,159 in the middle in 2272 01:41:13,159 --> 01:41:17,149 regards to some of our fees compared to the other cities 2273 01:41:17,149 --> 01:41:18,859 and 86% of our customer 2274 01:41:18,859 --> 01:41:22,340 base pays on time on a consistent basis and again since 2275 01:41:22,340 --> 01:41:23,880 2010 with the 2276 01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:26,130 implementation of our credit collection policies we've 2277 01:41:26,130 --> 01:41:27,039 reduced the number of 2278 01:41:27,039 --> 01:41:33,189 delinquent accounts by 34% with that and so deposit usage 2279 01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:34,039 we wanted to discuss 2280 01:41:34,039 --> 01:41:37,590 the ways that we utilize our deposits we have 21% of our 2281 01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:38,800 customer base has 2282 01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,689 security deposits on the account the reason why we seek 2283 01:41:41,689 --> 01:41:42,720 deposits is we are 2284 01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:45,619 in a post-paid environment and so at the time of disconnect 2285 01:41:45,619 --> 01:41:46,720 ion or when you turn 2286 01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:49,079 off services you could have upwards of two and a half 2287 01:41:49,079 --> 01:41:50,279 months worth of usage on 2288 01:41:50,279 --> 01:41:53,420 your account and the highest deposit that we're requesting 2289 01:41:53,420 --> 01:41:54,039 is up to two 2290 01:41:54,039 --> 01:41:57,800 months with that and so 44% of the cities that we surveyed 2291 01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:58,439 do have that 2292 01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,399 average two month deposit like we do and we're also seeing 2293 01:42:01,399 --> 01:42:02,319 an increase in 2294 01:42:02,319 --> 01:42:05,760 customers leaving the utility system without contacting us 2295 01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:06,319 formally to let 2296 01:42:06,319 --> 01:42:08,300 them know to let us know that they're disconnecting 2297 01:42:08,300 --> 01:42:09,319 services so they're just 2298 01:42:09,319 --> 01:42:12,760 letting it turn off and we're not getting a reconnection 2299 01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:13,920 from them and so 2300 01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,420 that increased last fiscal year by 9% so we think that that 2301 01:42:17,420 --> 01:42:18,640 's even more 2302 01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:20,819 important while we want to make sure we have proper 2303 01:42:20,819 --> 01:42:22,000 security deposits on the 2304 01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,569 account with that increased trend and so how we used the 2305 01:42:25,569 --> 01:42:26,859 deposit usage for 2306 01:42:26,859 --> 01:42:32,600 fiscal year 16-17 56-69 final accounts held deposits 54% of 2307 01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:33,079 them had their 2308 01:42:33,079 --> 01:42:36,079 entire balance paid with that deposit which meant that they 2309 01:42:36,079 --> 01:42:36,960 were able to move 2310 01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,460 out and have additional funds to be able to connect 2311 01:42:39,460 --> 01:42:40,840 services wherever they're 2312 01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:45,170 going and then 46% of them still had an amount owing after 2313 01:42:45,170 --> 01:42:46,880 that deposit and we 2314 01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:50,300 don't know the final impact of on that for uncollectible 2315 01:42:50,300 --> 01:42:51,000 debt because we don't 2316 01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:54,779 deem debt uncollectible until 180 days but we do have data 2317 01:42:54,779 --> 01:42:56,399 for 15 and 16 and out 2318 01:42:56,399 --> 01:42:59,920 of the 5,500 accounts 53% of the deposits paid off the 2319 01:42:59,920 --> 01:43:02,000 final bill 47% of them 2320 01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:06,390 still had an amount owing and after that 23% overall ended 2321 01:43:06,390 --> 01:43:07,560 up leaving a debt that 2322 01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:10,810 turned into uncollectible debt so on average about 25% of 2323 01:43:10,810 --> 01:43:12,800 the total is or 23% 2324 01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:15,680 in that case is still even with the deposit refunding to 2325 01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:16,739 the balance they're 2326 01:43:16,739 --> 01:43:20,250 still leaving a debt on the account and for the two fiscal 2327 01:43:20,250 --> 01:43:21,560 years prior to that 2328 01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:26,029 it's it's about the same it's about 25% so we're seeing 2329 01:43:26,029 --> 01:43:27,039 that's a consistent 2330 01:43:27,039 --> 01:43:32,510 trend with who leaves ultimately results in uncollectible 2331 01:43:32,510 --> 01:43:33,479 debt with the deposit 2332 01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:37,609 refunding for the plus one program this is the prevent loss 2333 01:43:37,609 --> 01:43:39,119 of utility services 2334 01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:43,159 for fiscal year 16 17 we assisted 231 families for a total 2335 01:43:43,159 --> 01:43:44,680 of about $80,000 2336 01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:47,770 the contract with interfaith ministries is expiring next 2337 01:43:47,770 --> 01:43:48,760 month we have a six 2338 01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:52,600 month extension that we've already signed off on so we can 2339 01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:53,760 incorporate data 2340 01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:57,210 or pardon me a feedback from pub and council and those 2341 01:43:57,210 --> 01:43:58,119 specifications that 2342 01:43:58,119 --> 01:44:00,859 we're gonna write six out of the eight cities that we 2343 01:44:00,859 --> 01:44:02,239 survey do have a program 2344 01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:04,739 like the one that we have here at the city and so some of 2345 01:44:04,739 --> 01:44:05,720 the things that we 2346 01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:08,229 want to talk about and get direction from you and council 2347 01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:09,600 tomorrow with a 2348 01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:13,050 again we're trying to create the specs for that contract 2349 01:44:13,050 --> 01:44:14,239 now so we can get that 2350 01:44:14,239 --> 01:44:17,960 out to a competitive process and so one of the things we'd 2351 01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:19,039 like to have you 2352 01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:23,109 consider is do you want utility plus one funds going to 2353 01:44:23,109 --> 01:44:25,199 utility deposits right 2354 01:44:25,199 --> 01:44:28,390 now if someone seeks assistance deposits is not in scope 2355 01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:29,659 for that and so it can 2356 01:44:29,659 --> 01:44:32,630 only go towards balances so there's an opportunity if you 2357 01:44:32,630 --> 01:44:33,640 wanted funds to be 2358 01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:35,720 able to assist with customers deposits we have an 2359 01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:37,000 opportunity to incorporate 2360 01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:40,449 that into the contract now and then also establishing a 2361 01:44:40,449 --> 01:44:41,880 requirement that the the 2362 01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:44,850 vendor the new vendor or incumbent established written 2363 01:44:44,850 --> 01:44:45,800 program guidelines 2364 01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:48,380 that the city would review on a yearly basis and so this 2365 01:44:48,380 --> 01:44:49,279 would allow us an 2366 01:44:49,279 --> 01:44:51,720 opportunity to understand what's going on in the community 2367 01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:52,920 then it may be not 2368 01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:56,380 three years out when the contracts up for service or for it 2369 01:44:56,380 --> 01:44:58,159 to go back out for 2370 01:44:58,159 --> 01:45:01,800 competitive process and then what we also found is that we 2371 01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:02,880 think we need to 2372 01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:06,779 get richer data as far as monthly results from interfaith 2373 01:45:06,779 --> 01:45:07,680 ministries 2374 01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:10,800 currently and whoever the new vendor may be just so we can 2375 01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:11,720 know what are the 2376 01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:14,220 barriers that our customers are experiencing and is there a 2377 01:45:14,220 --> 01:45:14,640 way for us 2378 01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:18,090 to help them so we'd like to incorporate richer data on the 2379 01:45:18,090 --> 01:45:19,319 monthly reporting and 2380 01:45:19,319 --> 01:45:22,989 then training not only for city staff but for the vendor to 2381 01:45:22,989 --> 01:45:23,840 make sure that 2382 01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:26,439 they understand what type of authority they have in 2383 01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:27,920 qualifying assistance for 2384 01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:31,239 the customer and then we talked about last time we do have 2385 01:45:31,239 --> 01:45:32,479 a six month tenure 2386 01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:36,020 criteria in the current contract and so we think that we 2387 01:45:36,020 --> 01:45:37,399 could change that to 2388 01:45:37,399 --> 01:45:40,189 say that you could assist the family regardless of the 2389 01:45:40,189 --> 01:45:41,439 tenure at the address 2390 01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:44,890 and then assisting families more than once in a 12 month 2391 01:45:44,890 --> 01:45:46,359 period right now you 2392 01:45:46,359 --> 01:45:49,100 get assistance once and then you can't get assistance for 2393 01:45:49,100 --> 01:45:50,560 until the next year 2394 01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:54,340 depending on the circumstance and this was a 50% of the 2395 01:45:54,340 --> 01:45:55,760 reason why customers 2396 01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:58,560 were denied assistance was because they needed assistance 2397 01:45:58,560 --> 01:45:59,720 again so we think this 2398 01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:02,600 is an opportunity to put into the criteria where what is 2399 01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:03,560 the appropriate 2400 01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:06,119 amount I put up to three times but that's definitely open 2401 01:46:06,119 --> 01:46:06,880 for discussion 2402 01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:11,779 today and tomorrow and so after last month's discussion it 2403 01:46:11,779 --> 01:46:12,640 was brought up if 2404 01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:15,310 we did want to change something with the deposit process 2405 01:46:15,310 --> 01:46:16,600 what would that be and 2406 01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:19,770 what options are there and so just as a reminder the way we 2407 01:46:19,770 --> 01:46:20,880 charge deposit is 2408 01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,000 based off of credit scoring we'll run the credit to see if 2409 01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:25,079 you need a deposit 2410 01:46:25,079 --> 01:46:28,699 if you don't deposits waived if it's fair it's a one month 2411 01:46:28,699 --> 01:46:29,560 deposit and then if 2412 01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:32,529 it's a risk factor then we're going to charge up to a two 2413 01:46:32,529 --> 01:46:33,760 month deposit on the 2414 01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:36,659 account and so some options for new and existing customers 2415 01:46:36,659 --> 01:46:38,039 for residential that 2416 01:46:38,039 --> 01:46:40,729 we have is we would maintain that credit scoring and if you 2417 01:46:40,729 --> 01:46:41,479 're good credit 2418 01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:44,279 scoring we wouldn't charge a deposit so the option number 2419 01:46:44,279 --> 01:46:45,319 one is only charge a 2420 01:46:45,319 --> 01:46:49,010 deposit for that one month of utility usage as opposed to 2421 01:46:49,010 --> 01:46:50,159 if they need to have 2422 01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:52,899 two we would change to where it would only be one and as 2423 01:46:52,899 --> 01:46:53,720 the customer 2424 01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:56,430 establishes their tenure and their payment behavior or if 2425 01:46:56,430 --> 01:46:56,880 they got 2426 01:46:56,880 --> 01:46:59,510 disconnected for non-payment then we would seek the 2427 01:46:59,510 --> 01:47:00,640 additional one month 2428 01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:03,550 deposit to get them up to two months on the account the 2429 01:47:03,550 --> 01:47:05,279 second option that we 2430 01:47:05,279 --> 01:47:08,180 can do is charge a deposit again only a one month deposit 2431 01:47:08,180 --> 01:47:09,319 when they come into 2432 01:47:09,319 --> 01:47:12,399 the utility system and then based upon their payment 2433 01:47:12,399 --> 01:47:13,399 behavior or if they're 2434 01:47:13,399 --> 01:47:16,819 disconnected for non-payment increase their deposit by $50 2435 01:47:16,819 --> 01:47:17,960 increments with 2436 01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:21,369 that until they get up to that two month average on there 2437 01:47:21,369 --> 01:47:22,399 and then option number 2438 01:47:22,399 --> 01:47:25,239 three would to be only secure a one month deposit no 2439 01:47:25,239 --> 01:47:26,680 additional increases and 2440 01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:28,939 then option number four you know is going to put it in 2441 01:47:28,939 --> 01:47:29,800 there right no 2442 01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:33,439 changes to the deposit process and we could continue to do 2443 01:47:33,439 --> 01:47:34,479 payment arrangements 2444 01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:37,770 like we do now but that's definitely an option that we can 2445 01:47:37,770 --> 01:47:39,279 vet out with that so 2446 01:47:39,279 --> 01:47:42,729 at the end of this we're going to open that up for 2447 01:47:42,729 --> 01:47:45,279 discussion we could 2448 01:47:45,279 --> 01:47:48,050 collaborate it with community development because as we're 2449 01:47:48,050 --> 01:47:48,479 talking 2450 01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:51,199 about the deposits we thought that this was a very timely 2451 01:47:51,199 --> 01:47:52,000 conversation 2452 01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:54,600 especially with the recent emergency solutions grant that 2453 01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:55,439 just went through 2454 01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:59,380 is what other people can we assist specifically with a 2455 01:47:59,380 --> 01:48:00,779 deposit waiver we 2456 01:48:00,779 --> 01:48:04,770 do have in ordinance now that victims of family violence 2457 01:48:04,770 --> 01:48:05,800 that are working with 2458 01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,239 friends of the family have a deposit wage and so they 2459 01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:09,119 provide us a form 2460 01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:11,649 letter if they're going through that scenario we do not 2461 01:48:11,649 --> 01:48:12,319 charge them a 2462 01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:15,289 deposit and so we think this is another opportunity that we 2463 01:48:15,289 --> 01:48:16,600 can incorporate this 2464 01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:19,619 into city ordinance if someone who is working with the help 2465 01:48:19,619 --> 01:48:20,720 agency and they're 2466 01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:24,329 being going through either that rapid rehoming process or 2467 01:48:24,329 --> 01:48:25,359 any of the agencies 2468 01:48:25,359 --> 01:48:27,979 that's helping with homelessness they can provide us a form 2469 01:48:27,979 --> 01:48:28,760 like they do for 2470 01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:31,699 the victim family violence and we can waive that deposit so 2471 01:48:31,699 --> 01:48:32,439 again we think 2472 01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:36,350 this is a timely conversation while we're looking at the 2473 01:48:36,350 --> 01:48:38,119 deposits and so 2474 01:48:38,119 --> 01:48:40,819 with that and the discussion today and direction that we're 2475 01:48:40,819 --> 01:48:41,640 seeking is on the 2476 01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:45,090 plus one program and for the deposits so for plus one do we 2477 01:48:45,090 --> 01:48:46,319 want to increase the 2478 01:48:46,319 --> 01:48:48,630 funds to that for next year specifically because we're 2479 01:48:48,630 --> 01:48:49,880 going through the contract 2480 01:48:49,880 --> 01:48:53,859 competitive bid and then also do we want to allow funds to 2481 01:48:53,859 --> 01:48:55,359 go to the deposits and 2482 01:48:55,359 --> 01:48:58,680 staff obviously had recommended some of these criteria but 2483 01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:00,079 we're definitely open 2484 01:49:00,079 --> 01:49:02,699 if there's additional criteria that the PUB and council 2485 01:49:02,699 --> 01:49:03,760 wants to incorporate 2486 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:06,659 into that we want to start working on those specifications 2487 01:49:06,659 --> 01:49:07,640 so we can get that 2488 01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:11,060 contract going as soon as possible and then for deposits do 2489 01:49:11,060 --> 01:49:11,640 you want to 2490 01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:15,090 incorporate a deposit for people experiencing homelessness 2491 01:49:15,090 --> 01:49:16,039 and if you do 2492 01:49:16,039 --> 01:49:19,279 want to make any changes to the deposit process what option 2493 01:49:19,279 --> 01:49:20,239 would you like to 2494 01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:24,470 select and with that I'll open it up to any questions and 2495 01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:25,800 direction questions 2496 01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:30,859 yes last time we talked about this I said aren't there any 2497 01:49:30,859 --> 01:49:32,520 agencies that also 2498 01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:36,979 help with this and I noticed in the paper the Denton paper 2499 01:49:36,979 --> 01:49:37,920 the Texoma 2500 01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:41,520 Council of Government's energy services program also 2501 01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,319 provides funds do we work 2502 01:49:43,319 --> 01:49:47,180 with them we don't work with them directly but we have like 2503 01:49:47,180 --> 01:49:48,399 a list in 2504 01:49:48,399 --> 01:49:51,140 addition to plus one where our customers are reaching out 2505 01:49:51,140 --> 01:49:51,640 to us they're 2506 01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:54,800 struggling we have a list that they will provide them they 2507 01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:55,720 are on that list and 2508 01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:59,800 in my previous perfect presentation we did have almost 1200 2509 01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:00,439 customers were 2510 01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:03,890 being assisted through those various agencies with Texoma 2511 01:50:03,890 --> 01:50:04,560 Council of 2512 01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:08,010 Governments being one of them and last fiscal year they 2513 01:50:08,010 --> 01:50:09,159 gave or assisted our 2514 01:50:09,159 --> 01:50:13,489 customers with about $135,000 worth of payments on there so 2515 01:50:13,489 --> 01:50:14,439 yeah we discussed 2516 01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:17,239 that last time with it but I'm glad you brought it so yes 2517 01:50:17,239 --> 01:50:18,319 we do make our 2518 01:50:18,319 --> 01:50:21,479 customers aware the additional resources that they have out 2519 01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:23,600 there for them is 2520 01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:31,439 that is that applying deposits or I know plus one is we're 2521 01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:32,439 talking about really 2522 01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:34,920 applied to deposit not but there's a Texas Council of 2523 01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:35,920 Governments that 2524 01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:40,840 assistant them or balances I'm not sure how it works here 2525 01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:42,000 in Minnesota it was it 2526 01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,439 had to be electric only really deposits it couldn't be 2527 01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:46,359 water and most of them 2528 01:50:46,359 --> 01:50:49,210 are definitely balances but you know it's an opportunity if 2529 01:50:49,210 --> 01:50:50,079 we're allocating 2530 01:50:50,079 --> 01:50:53,489 funds we can deem how we want those allocated so I think it 2531 01:50:53,489 --> 01:50:54,159 's it's a good 2532 01:50:54,159 --> 01:50:58,319 conversation to have yeah okay but there are programs out 2533 01:50:58,319 --> 01:50:59,239 there in addition to 2534 01:50:59,239 --> 01:51:04,479 what we're doing to help you some you mentioned that was at 2535 01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:05,239 eighty thousand 2536 01:51:05,239 --> 01:51:10,109 and change or something that we the plus one program was 2537 01:51:10,109 --> 01:51:11,840 that yes for this year 2538 01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:15,590 it was a little over 80,000 we allocate about 86,000 to 2539 01:51:15,590 --> 01:51:16,840 them every year for it's 2540 01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:19,470 a hundred thousand fourteen thousand goes for admin costs 2541 01:51:19,470 --> 01:51:21,119 for the vendor to 2542 01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:24,560 administer it and then they distribute eighty six thousand 2543 01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:25,399 dollars they have 2544 01:51:25,399 --> 01:51:27,699 those funds and so you can see they're not even using all 2545 01:51:27,699 --> 01:51:28,560 of those funds right 2546 01:51:28,560 --> 01:51:31,279 now we don't tell anybody no then I guess I'm sorry we didn 2547 01:51:31,279 --> 01:51:31,720 't tell anybody 2548 01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:34,819 no we did tell quite a bit of people as people know and we 2549 01:51:34,819 --> 01:51:35,920 talked about this 2550 01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:38,430 last time some of the reasons why fifty percent of the 2551 01:51:38,430 --> 01:51:39,479 reasons why they're 2552 01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:42,930 getting decon is they need assistance more than once with 2553 01:51:42,930 --> 01:51:44,439 that and then the 2554 01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:47,890 other fifty percent is the documentation wasn't filled out 2555 01:51:47,890 --> 01:51:48,560 the 2556 01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:52,140 applicant didn't show up for the appointment or they didn't 2557 01:51:52,140 --> 01:51:52,479 need 2558 01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:55,380 assistance any longer but I think it goes back to that 2559 01:51:55,380 --> 01:51:56,560 point of getting that 2560 01:51:56,560 --> 01:52:00,250 bit that richer data to get a better understanding so we 2561 01:52:00,250 --> 01:52:01,560 know how we can 2562 01:52:01,560 --> 01:52:09,800 address those needs with that so do we know if we were to 2563 01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:10,840 increase it to up to 2564 01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:14,640 three times a year would we need more funds or do you think 2565 01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:15,600 we would just use 2566 01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:19,319 the funds that we were already allocating do we I don't 2567 01:52:19,319 --> 01:52:20,600 know the exact 2568 01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:23,229 answers to that question I think we're going to need to my 2569 01:52:23,229 --> 01:52:24,279 recommendation is 2570 01:52:24,279 --> 01:52:27,079 changing the criteria to make it to where we can assist 2571 01:52:27,079 --> 01:52:28,159 more customers and 2572 01:52:28,159 --> 01:52:31,119 seeing what the impact is of that I think that we would 2573 01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:32,760 definitely utilize 2574 01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:35,409 this especially if you incorporated deposits in there and 2575 01:52:35,409 --> 01:52:36,159 then you remove 2576 01:52:36,159 --> 01:52:38,930 that more than once in a 12 month period I do think you're 2577 01:52:38,930 --> 01:52:40,199 going to see a greater 2578 01:52:40,199 --> 01:52:43,210 need for that but without having that in place it's hard to 2579 01:52:43,210 --> 01:52:44,800 determine I wouldn't 2580 01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:47,039 feel comfortable telling you yes they need this and I did 2581 01:52:47,039 --> 01:52:47,600 have a conversation 2582 01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,560 with interfaith ministries and they had suggested maybe 2583 01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:51,840 doing an increase of 2584 01:52:51,840 --> 01:52:55,920 $25,000 in addition to the criteria changes and then seeing 2585 01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:56,720 how that goes 2586 01:52:56,720 --> 01:53:00,180 with that but again it's your discretion that was gonna be 2587 01:53:00,180 --> 01:53:01,079 my next question is 2588 01:53:01,079 --> 01:53:06,039 can we amend it later we could put that in the contract so 2589 01:53:06,039 --> 01:53:07,960 that would be make 2590 01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:10,779 sure I'm saying that right I'm looking at legal I don't be 2591 01:53:10,779 --> 01:53:11,159 like yeah we can do 2592 01:53:11,159 --> 01:53:14,930 it you're like no you can't with that so I think we could 2593 01:53:14,930 --> 01:53:17,479 put that in the contract what I'm trying to get is I think 2594 01:53:17,479 --> 01:53:21,920 your deposit process is probably one of the better ones and 2595 01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:24,159 I would rather keep 2596 01:53:24,159 --> 01:53:30,550 good credit policy in place and provide assistance in the 2597 01:53:30,550 --> 01:53:32,720 limited periods where 2598 01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:35,170 it's going to be needed and I don't even have a problem 2599 01:53:35,170 --> 01:53:36,439 with it going towards the 2600 01:53:36,439 --> 01:53:40,920 deposit if they meet the criteria and they need the help 2601 01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:42,439 but I don't want to 2602 01:53:42,439 --> 01:53:49,770 get away from sound policy. I have a question. I'm sorry 2603 01:53:49,770 --> 01:53:53,720 there's probably gonna be an amount of 2604 01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,510 situations where that deposit goes to just pay the last 2605 01:53:56,510 --> 01:53:57,640 couple of months of 2606 01:53:57,640 --> 01:54:01,079 their utility bill right like we saw it was pretty 2607 01:54:01,079 --> 01:54:02,439 expensive so if they can't 2608 01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,880 having trouble affording it already they might just so that 2609 01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:07,319 deposit might actually 2610 01:54:07,319 --> 01:54:12,189 end up just paying for electric rates. Yeah exactly. So 2611 01:54:12,189 --> 01:54:13,640 just in a different way. 2612 01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:22,000 What is the source of whatever funding of that money? We do 2613 01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:23,520 have a customer 2614 01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:26,670 contributions that give I think it's about eight thousand 2615 01:54:26,670 --> 01:54:28,399 dollars a year that 2616 01:54:28,399 --> 01:54:31,090 our customers make donations to the plus one program and 2617 01:54:31,090 --> 01:54:32,319 then the rest of it is 2618 01:54:32,319 --> 01:54:36,119 funded through the city through we do an allocation to the 2619 01:54:36,119 --> 01:54:37,640 utilities so that's 2620 01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:41,119 how it ultimately comes back out so there is a the rate 2621 01:54:41,119 --> 01:54:42,800 carrier is subsidizing 2622 01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:46,680 the additional that customers aren't donating. And so what 2623 01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:48,039 is the source from 2624 01:54:48,039 --> 01:54:55,470 the city? The source from the city. Our rates. So it 2625 01:54:55,470 --> 01:54:57,159 affects our rate structure. Yes. 2626 01:54:57,159 --> 01:55:03,659 Okay there was a list that I think Susan brought up of I 2627 01:55:03,659 --> 01:55:05,640 don't know whether 2628 01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:09,720 they're nonprofits or church organizations or whatever that 2629 01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:10,239 obviously 2630 01:55:10,239 --> 01:55:13,329 see a need I think you mentioned quite a few of those that 2631 01:55:13,329 --> 01:55:14,800 helped up to 1200 2632 01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:19,920 people. We have a specific I would call it a public-private 2633 01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:21,159 partnership or 2634 01:55:21,159 --> 01:55:26,010 contract with one entity to administer the funds that the 2635 01:55:26,010 --> 01:55:27,279 city does if I'm 2636 01:55:27,279 --> 01:55:33,439 understanding it. I don't know if it would make sense but 2637 01:55:33,439 --> 01:55:35,960 to have maybe that 2638 01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:41,760 public-private partnership with expand that some to other 2639 01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:43,479 organizations or if 2640 01:55:43,479 --> 01:55:46,289 they're doing that voluntarily maybe there's no need to do 2641 01:55:46,289 --> 01:55:47,239 that. So one of 2642 01:55:47,239 --> 01:55:49,939 the things with those additional resources that miss Parker 2643 01:55:49,939 --> 01:55:50,800 brought up we 2644 01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:53,600 do work with them because they reach out to us to ensure 2645 01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:54,920 they understand what the 2646 01:55:54,920 --> 01:55:57,489 customer needs are they let us know what amount they're 2647 01:55:57,489 --> 01:55:58,640 going to be pledging so 2648 01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:01,020 we can make sure the customer doesn't have any interruption 2649 01:56:01,020 --> 01:56:01,800 of service until 2650 01:56:01,800 --> 01:56:05,090 we get that pledge payment on there but as far as contract 2651 01:56:05,090 --> 01:56:06,359 ual we only have the 2652 01:56:06,359 --> 01:56:09,960 one with interfaith ministries for that so am I 2653 01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:11,760 understanding that maybe not 2654 01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:15,750 having just one contract but multiple with agency is that 2655 01:56:15,750 --> 01:56:17,119 what I'm asking I 2656 01:56:17,119 --> 01:56:21,189 don't I don't know that that's even viable or needed if all 2657 01:56:21,189 --> 01:56:22,039 of these other 2658 01:56:22,039 --> 01:56:28,220 agencies are already doing it without having to formally 2659 01:56:28,220 --> 01:56:30,720 enter into an agreement. 2660 01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:36,520 I think I may be able to address some of that we did an RFP 2661 01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:38,279 for that service a 2662 01:56:38,279 --> 01:56:43,340 few years ago and interfaith was the firm or the nonprofit 2663 01:56:43,340 --> 01:56:44,159 that wanted to do 2664 01:56:44,159 --> 01:56:47,399 the service there is some administration that has to go 2665 01:56:47,399 --> 01:56:48,319 along with it you need 2666 01:56:48,319 --> 01:56:50,609 to have some infrastructure to do that so there may be 2667 01:56:50,609 --> 01:56:51,680 others that would want 2668 01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:53,579 to do that we're certainly willing to talk to them if you 2669 01:56:53,579 --> 01:56:54,239 want to have more 2670 01:56:54,239 --> 01:56:56,529 than one partner I think that would be fine it's just 2671 01:56:56,529 --> 01:56:57,680 matter of finding someone 2672 01:56:57,680 --> 01:57:00,579 who's willing to do that for the programs already have in 2673 01:57:00,579 --> 01:57:01,359 place perhaps. 2674 01:57:01,359 --> 01:57:05,920 Again I'm asking for understanding not necessarily 2675 01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:07,760 suggesting that okay needs 2676 01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:12,710 to be done because I agree with Susan you know the business 2677 01:57:12,710 --> 01:57:14,079 side the credit 2678 01:57:14,079 --> 01:57:19,010 standards your deposit that I've seen too many businesses 2679 01:57:19,010 --> 01:57:20,119 fail when they start 2680 01:57:20,119 --> 01:57:28,079 loaning credit standards banks cities housing authorities 2681 01:57:28,079 --> 01:57:29,239 and on and on and 2682 01:57:29,239 --> 01:57:32,659 on and I've seen that from firsthand personal because I 2683 01:57:32,659 --> 01:57:34,479 foreclosed on or 2684 01:57:34,479 --> 01:57:38,270 suit them or whatever so I don't think we should ever lower 2685 01:57:38,270 --> 01:57:39,680 credit standards and 2686 01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:44,140 policies but to help from a social side this type of thing 2687 01:57:44,140 --> 01:57:45,840 and how do you make 2688 01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,630 it better and how do you solicit more money or how do you 2689 01:57:48,630 --> 01:57:50,319 how do you raise 2690 01:57:50,319 --> 01:57:54,399 more money without necessarily jeopardizing increasing 2691 01:57:54,399 --> 01:57:56,359 utility rates 2692 01:57:56,359 --> 01:58:05,489 is a challenge but also worthy of trying to do. Okay 2693 01:58:05,489 --> 01:58:05,560 understood. I'm sorry no I 2694 01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:08,760 talked too much. Go ahead Lily. You've got some background 2695 01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:10,819 on. I do I do in my time 2696 01:58:10,819 --> 01:58:15,210 with United Way as their CEO for about five years and then 2697 01:58:15,210 --> 01:58:16,439 also as a fundraiser 2698 01:58:16,439 --> 01:58:20,770 for the United Way everyone on staff had to answer calls 2699 01:58:20,770 --> 01:58:21,680 from the community 2700 01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:26,130 asking for assistance and more times than I can count they 2701 01:58:26,130 --> 01:58:27,479 would not were not 2702 01:58:27,479 --> 01:58:33,439 able to get funds for their to go towards their bills for 2703 01:58:33,439 --> 01:58:34,279 electricity 2704 01:58:34,279 --> 01:58:38,840 because they had already gone once before or other 2705 01:58:38,840 --> 01:58:41,039 organizations had already 2706 01:58:41,039 --> 01:58:45,369 run out of funds and so there might be a whole bunch of 2707 01:58:45,369 --> 01:58:46,520 organizations out there 2708 01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:49,970 but they have very limited funding for this particular 2709 01:58:49,970 --> 01:58:51,359 thing and so it really 2710 01:58:51,359 --> 01:58:55,439 doesn't cover the need that is out there. The other point 2711 01:58:55,439 --> 01:58:56,760 that I wish to make is 2712 01:58:56,760 --> 01:59:02,369 that while addressing homelessness that is a huge problem 2713 01:59:02,369 --> 01:59:03,319 problem that a lot of 2714 01:59:03,319 --> 01:59:08,229 families even families who have both spouses working still 2715 01:59:08,229 --> 01:59:09,359 run into this 2716 01:59:09,359 --> 01:59:13,199 problem of not being able to pay all of their their funding 2717 01:59:13,199 --> 01:59:14,399 and so you ask you 2718 01:59:14,399 --> 01:59:17,850 have to ask yourself the question is are we going to you 2719 01:59:17,850 --> 01:59:19,319 know have these people 2720 01:59:19,319 --> 01:59:21,770 thrown out on the streets because they couldn't pay their 2721 01:59:21,770 --> 01:59:22,720 electric bill or are 2722 01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:25,960 we going to help them this time and let them continue to 2723 01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:27,479 work and make money and 2724 01:59:27,479 --> 01:59:31,810 provide for their families so that they can also pay for 2725 01:59:31,810 --> 01:59:33,760 their electric bill on 2726 01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:38,319 a regular basis and quite frankly up to three times a year 2727 01:59:38,319 --> 01:59:39,960 I think would be the 2728 01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:43,489 kinder thing for us to be able to do and also not only kind 2729 01:59:43,489 --> 01:59:44,800 but also to ensure 2730 01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:48,600 that families don't become homeless because they couldn't 2731 01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:49,720 have their bills 2732 01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:54,960 paid that one time a year. Yes can I piggyback on that I 2733 01:59:54,960 --> 01:59:56,600 just want to say I 2734 01:59:56,600 --> 02:00:03,600 completely agree with with what Lillia just said both about 2735 02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:05,880 the the homeless 2736 02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:10,850 deposit waiver and up to three times more a year assistance 2737 02:00:10,850 --> 02:00:11,439 and the 2738 02:00:11,439 --> 02:00:15,920 connection between these two issues because as our Denton 2739 02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:16,699 homeless 2740 02:00:16,699 --> 02:00:24,270 coalition you know makes clear that people that low-income 2741 02:00:24,270 --> 02:00:25,920 people are on 2742 02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:31,199 the verge of homelessness and that home and that homeless 2743 02:00:31,199 --> 02:00:32,439 is not a kind of 2744 02:00:32,439 --> 02:00:37,130 person but a state of being that that that anybody could 2745 02:00:37,130 --> 02:00:39,159 fall into at one time 2746 02:00:39,159 --> 02:00:44,600 and so there's a direct connection between these two. I 2747 02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:47,880 would like to have 2748 02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:55,449 staff consider bring to the table the possibility of a low- 2749 02:00:55,449 --> 02:00:57,319 income deposit 2750 02:00:57,319 --> 02:01:02,729 waiver because these are precisely the people who you know 2751 02:01:02,729 --> 02:01:05,880 low-income people who 2752 02:01:05,880 --> 02:01:10,479 are being asked to put more upfront when they don't even 2753 02:01:10,479 --> 02:01:13,039 have the money to simply 2754 02:01:13,039 --> 02:01:19,260 pay their bill and I find really interesting if you wouldn 2755 02:01:19,260 --> 02:01:20,439 't mind going 2756 02:01:20,439 --> 02:01:26,119 to the additional information slide the follow-up 2757 02:01:26,119 --> 02:01:30,319 information slide or the 2758 02:01:30,319 --> 02:01:34,520 let's see this is page page seven of the follow-up 2759 02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:39,159 information. Sorry let me get 2760 02:01:39,159 --> 02:01:41,520 a hold up. 2761 02:02:01,319 --> 02:02:01,460 Yes it's with the additional funding yes yeah starting 2762 02:02:01,460 --> 02:02:08,960 right there yeah so you 2763 02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:08,960 see um so where it says it a hundred thousand dollars right 2764 02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:13,960 towards the plus 2765 02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:13,960 one program and then you scroll down to the next item item 2766 02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:20,520 11 which is this 2767 02:02:20,520 --> 02:02:29,510 breakdown of uncollectible debt and that a hundred thousand 2768 02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:32,000 dollars is just a 2769 02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:39,920 little less than half of the uncollected residential debt 2770 02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:43,039 that exists today right 2771 02:02:43,039 --> 02:02:46,840 so we're really looking at you know when I when I look at 2772 02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:48,119 this and I found this 2773 02:02:48,119 --> 02:02:52,310 so interesting and I'm really grateful that you know you 2774 02:02:52,310 --> 02:02:54,039 put this on here as 2775 02:02:54,039 --> 02:02:58,250 far as thinking about you know not just does the deposit 2776 02:02:58,250 --> 02:02:59,800 system work but how 2777 02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:05,079 does it work you know what I see is that the commercial 2778 02:03:05,079 --> 02:03:08,520 debt has shrunk so 2779 02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:12,199 significantly both in terms of the amount of money and the 2780 02:03:12,199 --> 02:03:13,680 overall percentage 2781 02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:17,119 the piece of the pie of the uncollected debt and you can 2782 02:03:17,119 --> 02:03:18,359 see that in terms of 2783 02:03:18,359 --> 02:03:22,850 percentages the commercial category has literally switched 2784 02:03:22,850 --> 02:03:23,520 places with the 2785 02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:27,420 residential category we go from 46% of the total uncoll 2786 02:03:27,420 --> 02:03:28,319 ected debt being 2787 02:03:28,319 --> 02:03:33,479 commercial to 46% of the uncollected debt being residential 2788 02:03:33,479 --> 02:03:34,680 so what that says 2789 02:03:34,680 --> 02:03:41,520 to me is that the deposit is that since we enacted this 2790 02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:44,239 deposit system that 2791 02:03:44,239 --> 02:03:47,800 we've we've shrunk the total uncollected debt down but we 2792 02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:50,279 've done that by 2793 02:03:50,279 --> 02:03:55,600 shifting the burden to you know from essentially the you 2794 02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:58,000 know rich but I could 2795 02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:01,449 say from the rich to the poor you know from from the 2796 02:04:01,449 --> 02:04:03,399 commercial entities that 2797 02:04:03,399 --> 02:04:06,369 can pay these deposits because you can see there's so 2798 02:04:06,369 --> 02:04:07,880 little uncollected debt 2799 02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:11,890 now from commercial because they can pay right they can pay 2800 02:04:11,890 --> 02:04:13,239 their deposits most 2801 02:04:13,239 --> 02:04:16,210 of them can and then you have these residents and I should 2802 02:04:16,210 --> 02:04:16,960 say I've been you 2803 02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:25,729 know since I started on PUB I am contacted every every week 2804 02:04:25,729 --> 02:04:27,920 by multiple 2805 02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:31,770 you know low low-income people who are struggling to pay 2806 02:04:31,770 --> 02:04:33,319 their bills which are 2807 02:04:33,319 --> 02:04:37,199 augmented by these extra you know as you know and you know 2808 02:04:37,199 --> 02:04:38,119 more about it than I 2809 02:04:38,119 --> 02:04:40,920 do because you talked to him you know more of these people 2810 02:04:40,920 --> 02:04:42,760 than I do so you 2811 02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:45,470 know what I would like to propose again is following up on 2812 02:04:45,470 --> 02:04:46,239 what I was saying 2813 02:04:46,239 --> 02:04:50,149 before and I'm just using this as the as the data to back 2814 02:04:50,149 --> 02:04:51,479 that up this is what 2815 02:04:51,479 --> 02:04:56,380 gave me the idea you know if we could you know keep the 2816 02:04:56,380 --> 02:04:57,920 commercial deposits and 2817 02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:04,720 and include not just a waiver for people who are homeless 2818 02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:06,479 but for people who are 2819 02:05:06,479 --> 02:05:09,380 on the verge of always on the verge of homelessness which 2820 02:05:09,380 --> 02:05:10,680 is quite frankly low 2821 02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:18,869 income people in Denton in general and and then we could 2822 02:05:18,869 --> 02:05:20,640 even if you're taught 2823 02:05:20,640 --> 02:05:23,289 if you're you know looking at the plus one program so I'm 2824 02:05:23,289 --> 02:05:24,680 kind of jumping from 2825 02:05:24,680 --> 02:05:26,939 you know one to the other and back because they are such 2826 02:05:26,939 --> 02:05:27,899 related issues and 2827 02:05:27,899 --> 02:05:30,029 but and I and I push for that reason I appreciate having 2828 02:05:30,029 --> 02:05:30,960 both these issues in 2829 02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:36,239 the same presentation you know what about since so if you 2830 02:05:36,239 --> 02:05:37,880 scroll up to that 2831 02:05:38,399 --> 02:05:45,970 scroll back up to the plus one so if what we're doing with 2832 02:05:45,970 --> 02:05:47,880 the you know plus 2833 02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:52,720 one program is we're giving a hundred thousand to a third 2834 02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:54,640 party and they keep 2835 02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:59,479 fourteen thousand for their operations and then they're 2836 02:05:59,479 --> 02:06:01,159 giving the rest of the 2837 02:06:01,159 --> 02:06:06,270 money back to our ratepayers to give back to us you know 2838 02:06:06,270 --> 02:06:08,079 why not from a point 2839 02:06:08,079 --> 02:06:11,520 of view of just you know practicality and you know fiscal 2840 02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:12,359 responsibility just 2841 02:06:12,359 --> 02:06:17,640 kind of cut the middleman and have staff have you know have 2842 02:06:17,640 --> 02:06:22,039 customer service you 2843 02:06:22,039 --> 02:06:26,029 know do away with the low-income deposit which means less 2844 02:06:26,029 --> 02:06:27,479 time spent on on the on 2845 02:06:27,479 --> 02:06:30,189 the phones you know I think more you said said previously 2846 02:06:30,189 --> 02:06:30,960 at council work 2847 02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:34,250 session more than 50% of the time on customers not 10% but 2848 02:06:34,250 --> 02:06:35,079 I went back and 2849 02:06:35,079 --> 02:06:40,079 research okay so it is less okay yeah but but but you 2850 02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:41,239 remember that yeah that 2851 02:06:41,239 --> 02:06:43,720 question yeah so but you know a significant part of time so 2852 02:06:43,720 --> 02:06:44,079 what if 2853 02:06:44,079 --> 02:06:47,239 instead you know you were able to spend this time it would 2854 02:06:47,239 --> 02:06:48,399 be helping the same 2855 02:06:48,399 --> 02:06:55,159 kinds of customers but having being able to provide that 2856 02:06:55,159 --> 02:06:57,399 assistance at the level 2857 02:06:57,399 --> 02:06:59,600 of staff and I don't expect you to actually be able to 2858 02:06:59,600 --> 02:07:00,479 answer that right 2859 02:07:00,479 --> 02:07:03,560 now I do have a thought on that if I may yeah with that 2860 02:07:03,560 --> 02:07:04,880 they customers are 2861 02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:08,329 divulging a lot of personal information with getting 2862 02:07:08,329 --> 02:07:09,659 assistance like do they 2863 02:07:09,659 --> 02:07:13,729 meet the criteria what's their financial need health I mean 2864 02:07:13,729 --> 02:07:14,600 you got HIPAA stuff 2865 02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:17,560 in there too and I don't know I don't necessarily know if 2866 02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:18,680 the city wants to be 2867 02:07:18,680 --> 02:07:22,239 brought into scope with all that and being us saying no to 2868 02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:23,399 you and yes to you 2869 02:07:23,399 --> 02:07:27,539 with that I think that's one of the primary reasons we do 2870 02:07:27,539 --> 02:07:28,840 do a contract for 2871 02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:31,939 this so we establish the criteria and then the customer 2872 02:07:31,939 --> 02:07:32,760 goes to interfaith 2873 02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:35,560 that make sure they meet the criteria in addition that they 2874 02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:36,520 know the additional 2875 02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:39,539 resources that are out in the community because it isn't 2876 02:07:39,539 --> 02:07:40,760 usually just one need 2877 02:07:40,760 --> 02:07:43,840 with utilities it's probably a combination of needs and so 2878 02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:44,800 interfaith is 2879 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:47,760 that that resource for them to be able to get the 2880 02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:49,600 additional resources that 2881 02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:53,680 they may need with us thank you for bringing that up 2882 02:07:53,680 --> 02:07:54,279 because I was just 2883 02:07:54,279 --> 02:07:57,229 gonna say we don't want to know that Deb we don't want to 2884 02:07:57,229 --> 02:07:58,560 know that about our 2885 02:07:58,560 --> 02:08:02,430 customers and and I think using this third party is a 2886 02:08:02,430 --> 02:08:03,979 better way and if that 2887 02:08:03,979 --> 02:08:07,430 means we help them with deposits and they will get other 2888 02:08:07,430 --> 02:08:08,479 resources do they 2889 02:08:08,479 --> 02:08:12,079 need food do they need you know clothing for their children 2890 02:08:12,079 --> 02:08:13,920 and things it's a 2891 02:08:13,920 --> 02:08:17,600 really is a more efficient interfaith does a lot of things 2892 02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:18,760 besides utility 2893 02:08:18,760 --> 02:08:22,210 assistance and so you know for fourteen thousand dollars 2894 02:08:22,210 --> 02:08:24,720 that is a very 2895 02:08:24,720 --> 02:08:29,359 efficient very cheap administrative cost especially if the 2896 02:08:29,359 --> 02:08:30,439 city to take it on I 2897 02:08:30,439 --> 02:08:34,329 think you you would have to budget I don't know what at the 2898 02:08:34,329 --> 02:08:35,079 budget to 2899 02:08:35,079 --> 02:08:37,880 administer that program but it would be I just don't think 2900 02:08:37,880 --> 02:08:39,039 it'd be very efficient 2901 02:08:39,039 --> 02:08:42,489 I think having a third party that also takes care of these 2902 02:08:42,489 --> 02:08:43,760 other needs school 2903 02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:47,880 supplies medical referrals that type of stuff 2904 02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:50,079 transportation see yeah really 2905 02:08:50,079 --> 02:08:52,159 really makes because they're getting the information anyway 2906 02:08:52,159 --> 02:08:53,199 I think we agree on 2907 02:08:53,199 --> 02:08:57,039 the outcome we're trying to achieve oh of course yeah yes 2908 02:08:57,039 --> 02:08:58,279 yeah of course yeah I 2909 02:08:58,279 --> 02:09:02,680 just it's because I know from having talked to you so many 2910 02:09:02,680 --> 02:09:03,520 customers and also 2911 02:09:03,520 --> 02:09:05,560 having talked to you know customer service that you know 2912 02:09:05,560 --> 02:09:06,079 you guys are 2913 02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:08,119 hearing these stories anyway I completely understand why 2914 02:09:08,119 --> 02:09:08,640 you don't want 2915 02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:12,399 to you know get involved but it's all but in design 2916 02:09:12,399 --> 02:09:14,399 customer services is also 2917 02:09:14,399 --> 02:09:19,239 making just simply by being customer service ending up 2918 02:09:19,239 --> 02:09:20,399 making decisions 2919 02:09:20,399 --> 02:09:23,640 because it's not an exact science and you can't predict 2920 02:09:23,640 --> 02:09:24,960 what every individual 2921 02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:29,189 case is going to be you know ending up deciding in certain 2922 02:09:29,189 --> 02:09:30,159 cases for instance 2923 02:09:30,159 --> 02:09:33,600 there are certain customers who have come to me in dire 2924 02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:34,479 situations and by 2925 02:09:34,479 --> 02:09:39,029 the way I have yet to meet anyone who pays deposits who's 2926 02:09:39,029 --> 02:09:40,479 not in some kind of 2927 02:09:40,479 --> 02:09:47,479 difficult circumstances it so I would like to see also more 2928 02:09:47,479 --> 02:09:49,039 information about 2929 02:09:49,039 --> 02:09:52,529 not only and I'm glad you're asking for plus one for more 2930 02:09:52,529 --> 02:09:53,920 assist for more data 2931 02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:57,539 on you know the kinds of obstacles in people's way I'd also 2932 02:09:57,539 --> 02:09:58,359 like to see more 2933 02:09:58,359 --> 02:10:06,170 about the income levels of people who are being charged 2934 02:10:06,170 --> 02:10:09,079 deposits so I got a 2935 02:10:09,079 --> 02:10:14,420 map and I appreciated the map that shows kind of where you 2936 02:10:14,420 --> 02:10:16,000 know the clusters of 2937 02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:19,590 where people who pay deposits are that's included in this 2938 02:10:19,590 --> 02:10:20,960 but I would like to see 2939 02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:27,109 data on the income levels of the people who are asked to 2940 02:10:27,109 --> 02:10:28,119 pay deposits 2941 02:10:28,119 --> 02:10:31,199 because I think what will my guess is what we'll find and 2942 02:10:31,199 --> 02:10:32,079 what I've seen 2943 02:10:32,079 --> 02:10:37,319 anecdotally is that it is our low our lower income 2944 02:10:37,319 --> 02:10:39,680 customers on average who 2945 02:10:39,680 --> 02:10:45,640 have to pay these who have to pay these deposits I think 2946 02:10:45,640 --> 02:10:46,279 the criteria for 2947 02:10:46,279 --> 02:10:51,359 deposits is what their credit yes that that's and that 2948 02:10:51,359 --> 02:10:52,279 determines whether or 2949 02:10:52,279 --> 02:10:56,720 not they're gonna pay us back or not and so from a business 2950 02:10:56,720 --> 02:10:58,439 standpoint we got to 2951 02:10:58,439 --> 02:11:02,039 be good stewards from business standpoint of making 2952 02:11:02,039 --> 02:11:03,520 business decisions 2953 02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:06,609 and that's what Susan we go back to that pie chart the 2954 02:11:06,609 --> 02:11:08,039 reason why commercial 2955 02:11:08,039 --> 02:11:11,189 started paying their bills because they were required to 2956 02:11:11,189 --> 02:11:12,439 put down a deposit just 2957 02:11:12,439 --> 02:11:15,890 like everyone else yes and I look at the chart the 2958 02:11:15,890 --> 02:11:18,439 residential there in half to 2959 02:11:18,439 --> 02:11:23,890 multifamily didn't have quite as much but the reason isn't 2960 02:11:23,890 --> 02:11:24,079 the reason that 2961 02:11:24,079 --> 02:11:29,960 that's lower is because you all instituted tighter credit 2962 02:11:29,960 --> 02:11:30,920 controls and 2963 02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:35,470 tighter collection policies yes and so that encourage 2964 02:11:35,470 --> 02:11:37,359 people to start paying 2965 02:11:37,359 --> 02:11:44,359 that's why that's down yeah probably and we can figure out 2966 02:11:44,359 --> 02:11:45,239 a way to help those 2967 02:11:45,239 --> 02:11:48,960 people who need help yeah well you know that in my from 2968 02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:51,359 from what I have seen 2969 02:11:51,359 --> 02:11:57,699 from talking to ratepayers whose lives have been really you 2970 02:11:57,699 --> 02:12:00,600 know that these in 2971 02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:05,189 in ways that some of us you know can't can't think of the 2972 02:12:05,189 --> 02:12:06,279 kind of decisions 2973 02:12:06,279 --> 02:12:12,869 that they have to make every day these deposits have been 2974 02:12:12,869 --> 02:12:14,720 really successful at 2975 02:12:14,720 --> 02:12:19,050 the commercial level and they have been successful you know 2976 02:12:19,050 --> 02:12:19,800 for at the 2977 02:12:19,800 --> 02:12:23,899 residential level but at what cost and what I'm seeing is 2978 02:12:23,899 --> 02:12:25,319 the cost of making 2979 02:12:25,319 --> 02:12:31,600 poor people's lives pretty miserable and I don't think it's 2980 02:12:31,600 --> 02:12:33,319 if it were up to me 2981 02:12:33,319 --> 02:12:36,800 I'm one voice on PUB but I don't think it's worth that 2982 02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:38,279 savings you know the 2983 02:12:38,279 --> 02:12:41,260 difference between that that the residential savings the 2984 02:12:41,260 --> 02:12:41,520 difference 2985 02:12:41,520 --> 02:12:43,869 between that five hundred thousand and that two hundred 2986 02:12:43,869 --> 02:12:44,880 something thousand when 2987 02:12:44,880 --> 02:12:47,890 we're already committed because as you said Susan because 2988 02:12:47,890 --> 02:12:48,960 we all do have that 2989 02:12:48,960 --> 02:12:51,970 same goal of wanting to you know help it's just just a 2990 02:12:51,970 --> 02:12:53,239 matter of different 2991 02:12:53,239 --> 02:12:56,760 ideas of how we get there I completely understand that but 2992 02:12:56,760 --> 02:12:58,000 you know we're all 2993 02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:00,949 we're already committing to okay we're putting a hundred 2994 02:13:00,949 --> 02:13:02,079 thousand dollars down 2995 02:13:02,079 --> 02:13:08,399 to help you know why not step back and look more at and I 2996 02:13:08,399 --> 02:13:09,439 think the interfaith 2997 02:13:09,439 --> 02:13:11,890 can help us with this and providing more of this 2998 02:13:11,890 --> 02:13:16,239 information how this this the 2999 02:13:16,239 --> 02:13:20,289 inability to be able to pay this extra money upfront is 3000 02:13:20,289 --> 02:13:21,880 affecting people's 3001 02:13:21,880 --> 02:13:27,640 lives and what would happen economically without just 3002 02:13:27,640 --> 02:13:29,000 assuming oh we can handle 3003 02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:32,800 it you know actually looking at you know at adding up the 3004 02:13:32,800 --> 02:13:34,239 figures from a risk 3005 02:13:34,239 --> 02:13:40,880 analysis perspective what if we exempted low-income people 3006 02:13:40,880 --> 02:13:43,000 how much money we have 3007 02:13:43,000 --> 02:13:46,800 from the deposits how much so I would really like to see 3008 02:13:46,800 --> 02:13:48,640 that how much money 3009 02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:54,789 would you know would we be losing or how much would we be 3010 02:13:54,789 --> 02:13:55,800 gaining an 3011 02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:59,680 uncollected debt I really want to see that because I've 3012 02:13:59,680 --> 02:14:00,560 seen how this has 3013 02:14:00,560 --> 02:14:08,130 really ruined people's I think you're making an assumption 3014 02:14:08,130 --> 02:14:10,279 between low income 3015 02:14:10,279 --> 02:14:13,930 and bad credit because you can have high income and have 3016 02:14:13,930 --> 02:14:15,399 bad credit and you can 3017 02:14:15,399 --> 02:14:20,399 have low income and have good here for 35 years and I 3018 02:14:20,399 --> 02:14:22,399 believe the first few 3019 02:14:22,399 --> 02:14:25,840 years I paid deposits because I was right out of high 3020 02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:27,039 school I didn't have 3021 02:14:27,039 --> 02:14:31,880 any credit and now I don't pay it was that before 2010 or 3022 02:14:31,880 --> 02:14:33,319 after 35 years so 3023 02:14:33,319 --> 02:14:39,199 when I'm when I'm here that was when everybody paid 3024 02:14:39,199 --> 02:14:40,479 deposits because it used 3025 02:14:40,479 --> 02:14:44,210 to be that everybody paid $150 deposit we still had we 3026 02:14:44,210 --> 02:14:44,880 still had options to 3027 02:14:44,880 --> 02:14:47,550 waive and one of the things is we do not collect data on 3028 02:14:47,550 --> 02:14:49,439 income so we wouldn't be 3029 02:14:49,439 --> 02:14:52,239 able to gather what the income level is for people that 3030 02:14:52,239 --> 02:14:53,640 were charging deposits 3031 02:14:53,640 --> 02:14:56,229 and nor I think going back to the miss Parker's point nor 3032 02:14:56,229 --> 02:14:57,680 do we want to ask well 3033 02:14:57,680 --> 02:15:02,069 are you low-income or get into that okay so if we can't do 3034 02:15:02,069 --> 02:15:03,720 that then we can look 3035 02:15:03,720 --> 02:15:07,880 at if you look at national averages of you know who it is 3036 02:15:07,880 --> 02:15:09,359 in this nation who 3037 02:15:09,359 --> 02:15:15,880 has the bad credit you will find overwhelmingly that it is 3038 02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:17,079 low-income 3039 02:15:17,079 --> 02:15:22,060 people who have bad credit because it's living in America 3040 02:15:22,060 --> 02:15:23,920 is expensive and it is 3041 02:15:23,920 --> 02:15:27,050 not in most people who have bad credit it is not because 3042 02:15:27,050 --> 02:15:28,119 they're spending 3043 02:15:28,119 --> 02:15:30,670 extravagantly you're not managing their money it's because 3044 02:15:30,670 --> 02:15:31,279 life is really 3045 02:15:31,279 --> 02:15:33,689 expensive and I know that you hear these kind of stories in 3046 02:15:33,689 --> 02:15:35,199 United Way and I know 3047 02:15:35,199 --> 02:15:39,420 you hear them in customer service you know I'm sorry to you 3048 02:15:39,420 --> 02:15:40,720 know take the floor 3049 02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:45,159 the floor on this but but I because I am also concerned 3050 02:15:45,159 --> 02:15:46,720 about you know the 3051 02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:49,520 dollars and cents of it and risk management and I do what 3052 02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:50,359 you know want 3053 02:15:50,359 --> 02:15:57,239 to see that this is that it would be fiscally possible but 3054 02:15:57,239 --> 02:16:00,279 just when I just 3055 02:16:00,279 --> 02:16:03,079 look looking at that looking at this and looking at the 3056 02:16:03,079 --> 02:16:04,279 data that we have you 3057 02:16:04,279 --> 02:16:09,130 know I'm not convinced that requiring people with bad 3058 02:16:09,130 --> 02:16:11,119 credit who now who you 3059 02:16:11,119 --> 02:16:13,420 know in terms of nationwide averages tend to be low-income 3060 02:16:13,420 --> 02:16:14,239 people in terms of 3061 02:16:14,239 --> 02:16:20,840 everybody who's come to me low-income people I don't see 3062 02:16:20,840 --> 02:16:21,479 the advantage 3063 02:16:21,479 --> 02:16:25,520 financially in charging them for this and having so many 3064 02:16:25,520 --> 02:16:27,159 staff hours spent you 3065 02:16:27,159 --> 02:16:31,539 know chasing down people to get them to pay I would like to 3066 02:16:31,539 --> 02:16:34,959 see more more data 3067 02:16:34,959 --> 02:16:38,670 more information since we're all agree we want to help 3068 02:16:38,670 --> 02:16:40,040 people why assume that 3069 02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:43,850 that these two ways or you know the ways the ways to do it 3070 02:16:43,850 --> 02:16:45,319 charge people a lot 3071 02:16:45,319 --> 02:16:48,989 and then give a third party extra money to pay people so 3072 02:16:48,989 --> 02:16:50,440 that they can give us 3073 02:16:50,440 --> 02:16:55,159 back the money so the deposit is indicative of what their 3074 02:16:55,159 --> 02:16:55,920 usage is going 3075 02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:59,360 to be going into that address and that's why we're 3076 02:16:59,360 --> 02:17:00,719 collecting it but the map on 3077 02:17:00,719 --> 02:17:03,610 exhibit four does demonstrate that these deposits are 3078 02:17:03,610 --> 02:17:04,959 throughout the city yes 3079 02:17:04,959 --> 02:17:10,159 there's a specific group or area it definitely represents 3080 02:17:10,159 --> 02:17:10,959 that yeah it is 3081 02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:14,120 throughout the city so so just understand your point of 3082 02:17:14,120 --> 02:17:14,920 contention here 3083 02:17:14,920 --> 02:17:18,360 is that you would just like to see us waive deposits for 3084 02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:19,959 low-income people yes 3085 02:17:19,959 --> 02:17:23,190 what is what's low-income well that would be something to 3086 02:17:23,190 --> 02:17:24,239 be determined I 3087 02:17:24,239 --> 02:17:30,840 mean that right here yeah we don't want to ask our 3088 02:17:30,840 --> 02:17:32,440 customers that you know I 3089 02:17:32,440 --> 02:17:36,770 don't think we want that information we don't we can I 3090 02:17:36,770 --> 02:17:38,920 bring us back into center 3091 02:17:38,920 --> 02:17:44,079 here for a second we're talking about increasing how much 3092 02:17:44,079 --> 02:17:45,120 money and we're 3093 02:17:45,120 --> 02:17:49,450 talking about allocating more money to allow deposits to be 3094 02:17:49,450 --> 02:17:50,520 paid out of the 3095 02:17:50,520 --> 02:17:55,440 plus one or whatever right whatever money we're gonna 3096 02:17:55,440 --> 02:17:57,440 allocate for that so 3097 02:17:57,440 --> 02:18:01,680 it makes the deposits and let's let somebody else determine 3098 02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:02,799 what low income 3099 02:18:02,799 --> 02:18:05,100 is and that's what that's what interfaith does that's what 3100 02:18:05,100 --> 02:18:05,479 other 3101 02:18:05,479 --> 02:18:09,200 agencies do city does not need to be in that business so if 3102 02:18:09,200 --> 02:18:10,879 we allocate more 3103 02:18:10,879 --> 02:18:16,040 money to and allow deposits I think we've accomplished what 3104 02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:17,120 you're talking 3105 02:18:17,120 --> 02:18:23,290 about but but we we put a limit on it because it's a here's 3106 02:18:23,290 --> 02:18:23,760 what we're gonna 3107 02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:28,090 budget for this year and so they'll have a blank check we 3108 02:18:28,090 --> 02:18:29,639 can't do that we can't 3109 02:18:29,639 --> 02:18:33,680 say we just from business standpoint we can't do that so we 3110 02:18:33,680 --> 02:18:35,159 we just need to look 3111 02:18:35,159 --> 02:18:38,120 at from a budget standpoint how much money do we want to 3112 02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:39,200 allocate and do we 3113 02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:44,040 want to allow that money to be used towards deposits as 3114 02:18:44,040 --> 02:18:45,840 well as the utility 3115 02:18:45,840 --> 02:18:50,739 bills and I think that's where we're at yes and so as far 3116 02:18:50,739 --> 02:18:52,479 as giving staff 3117 02:18:52,479 --> 02:18:56,329 guidelines I don't know other than other than that is kind 3118 02:18:56,329 --> 02:18:59,079 of the bottom line you 3119 02:18:59,079 --> 02:19:03,200 know when we get it if we want to we've got a we've got a 3120 02:19:03,200 --> 02:19:04,239 contract that's coming 3121 02:19:04,239 --> 02:19:09,079 up in December there may be some things that in working 3122 02:19:09,079 --> 02:19:09,879 with interfaith that 3123 02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:13,299 come out of some some ideas on how to be more effective and 3124 02:19:13,299 --> 02:19:14,280 more efficient in 3125 02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:18,540 assisting families that need it if it's more more than once 3126 02:19:18,540 --> 02:19:19,639 the 12-month period 3127 02:19:19,639 --> 02:19:24,479 so be it we can put it in there well let's just let's just 3128 02:19:24,479 --> 02:19:27,440 kind of see what 3129 02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:32,139 where that goes and then let's let's tweak the the policies 3130 02:19:32,139 --> 02:19:33,440 we have and then 3131 02:19:33,440 --> 02:19:37,659 and then allocate more funds what well if it as long as we 3132 02:19:37,659 --> 02:19:39,120 have deposits then I 3133 02:19:39,120 --> 02:19:47,879 do so you know if if if we're we are charging people with 3134 02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:50,280 bad credit these 3135 02:19:50,280 --> 02:19:56,899 deposits then I do support very much so it's plus one a 3136 02:19:56,899 --> 02:19:58,639 plus one program 3137 02:19:58,639 --> 02:20:03,969 assisting people with those deposits and I do very much I 3138 02:20:03,969 --> 02:20:06,399 mean I want to support 3139 02:20:06,399 --> 02:20:09,840 you know struggling ratepayers however we can because 3140 02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:10,840 people are really 3141 02:20:10,840 --> 02:20:13,229 struggling so I just want to make it clear I do support 3142 02:20:13,229 --> 02:20:14,200 these aspects of the 3143 02:20:14,200 --> 02:20:17,799 plus one program but I also want to which is why I'm glad 3144 02:20:17,799 --> 02:20:18,799 these two are grouped 3145 02:20:18,799 --> 02:20:23,010 together look at the root of the cause of why people are 3146 02:20:23,010 --> 02:20:25,000 finding themselves in 3147 02:20:25,000 --> 02:20:29,600 this situation you know having a hard time paying their 3148 02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:31,280 deposits and no amount 3149 02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:35,149 you know no policy you know deposit even even though 3150 02:20:35,149 --> 02:20:36,920 deposits have helped with 3151 02:20:36,920 --> 02:20:40,370 some people resident poor residents paint being able to pay 3152 02:20:40,370 --> 02:20:42,200 it has not helped 3153 02:20:42,200 --> 02:20:45,280 all and the statistics prove that because of the you know 3154 02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:46,079 uncollected debt 3155 02:20:46,079 --> 02:20:49,530 that we still have and no policy is going to make money 3156 02:20:49,530 --> 02:20:51,280 magically appear you 3157 02:20:51,280 --> 02:20:55,940 know in poor people's pockets other than actually giving 3158 02:20:55,940 --> 02:20:57,920 them money or subsidizing 3159 02:20:57,920 --> 02:21:01,110 them and I'll just say and then I'll shut up but this is 3160 02:21:01,110 --> 02:21:02,000 one of the reasons 3161 02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:06,010 why I wanted to be on pub because it's a really important 3162 02:21:06,010 --> 02:21:08,239 issue for me when we 3163 02:21:08,239 --> 02:21:14,479 were hiring for the new our new general manager one of the 3164 02:21:14,479 --> 02:21:14,799 one of the 3165 02:21:14,799 --> 02:21:18,600 interviewees was from Seattle and he just happened to 3166 02:21:18,600 --> 02:21:20,360 mention that at the his 3167 02:21:20,360 --> 02:21:25,780 utility in Seattle they subsidized sixty print I haven't 3168 02:21:25,780 --> 02:21:27,319 checked up on this but 3169 02:21:27,319 --> 02:21:32,020 he mentioned that they subsidized sixty percent of low- 3170 02:21:32,020 --> 02:21:34,959 income ratepayers I'm not 3171 02:21:34,959 --> 02:21:40,120 saying so then let's do that you know but but that's just 3172 02:21:40,120 --> 02:21:42,719 an example of you 3173 02:21:42,719 --> 02:21:46,379 know the kind of things that could be possible and I I won 3174 02:21:46,379 --> 02:21:47,559 't say no to 3175 02:21:47,559 --> 02:21:51,180 anything until I see the numbers and how that adds up but 3176 02:21:51,180 --> 02:21:54,600 our options you know as 3177 02:21:54,600 --> 02:21:57,530 far as I see I mean I had to read over those four options a 3178 02:21:57,530 --> 02:21:58,600 number of times to 3179 02:21:58,600 --> 02:22:00,840 be able to differentiate between what exactly is the 3180 02:22:00,840 --> 02:22:02,040 difference you know 3181 02:22:02,040 --> 02:22:08,889 amongst those those options anyway so I will stop now and 3182 02:22:08,889 --> 02:22:10,079 you know thank you for 3183 02:22:10,079 --> 02:22:12,879 for hearing me and I do agree that we're all you know we're 3184 02:22:12,879 --> 02:22:13,959 all on the same page 3185 02:22:13,959 --> 02:22:20,120 with with wanting to help help help people 3186 02:22:20,760 --> 02:22:24,930 the PB is okay with incorporating or do we want to increase 3187 02:22:24,930 --> 02:22:26,319 funds to the plus one 3188 02:22:26,319 --> 02:22:29,450 program you know I think I think the consensus is let's 3189 02:22:29,450 --> 02:22:30,840 look at what we can 3190 02:22:30,840 --> 02:22:34,909 increase it by and what the effect would be if we included 3191 02:22:34,909 --> 02:22:36,559 deposits in that plus 3192 02:22:36,559 --> 02:22:41,459 one reimbursement and increase up to three times a year yes 3193 02:22:41,459 --> 02:22:43,479 yeah we're never 3194 02:22:43,479 --> 02:22:45,459 gonna be able to write enough money to take care of a 3195 02:22:45,459 --> 02:22:47,079 hundred percent I mean 3196 02:22:47,079 --> 02:22:49,979 that's just not possible and I think that if we increase I 3197 02:22:49,979 --> 02:22:50,920 mean they didn't 3198 02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:53,729 use all the money they were given this last fiscal year and 3199 02:22:53,729 --> 02:22:54,559 that might be 3200 02:22:54,559 --> 02:22:57,420 because they're having to refuse people because they've 3201 02:22:57,420 --> 02:22:58,120 only because I've already 3202 02:22:58,120 --> 02:23:03,920 used it so so if we if we increase that if we increase that 3203 02:23:03,920 --> 02:23:04,680 to three times a 3204 02:23:04,680 --> 02:23:08,180 year is their way we can put some provision in the contract 3205 02:23:08,180 --> 02:23:09,000 to increase 3206 02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:12,579 the amount of money if we realize that we upped it to three 3207 02:23:12,579 --> 02:23:13,680 times a year and 3208 02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:16,479 we ran out of money halfway through you know is there a way 3209 02:23:16,479 --> 02:23:17,559 to that we come here 3210 02:23:17,559 --> 02:23:20,079 and leave the hundred thousand that we have now that we 3211 02:23:20,079 --> 02:23:21,120 allocate to them but 3212 02:23:21,120 --> 02:23:24,559 put into the new contract that we can amend that increase 3213 02:23:24,559 --> 02:23:25,600 funds dependent on 3214 02:23:25,600 --> 02:23:29,969 need or maybe go ahead and bump it up what they had what 3215 02:23:29,969 --> 02:23:30,000 they had 3216 02:23:31,000 --> 02:23:34,969 something that will allow it to based upon the revised 3217 02:23:34,969 --> 02:23:36,959 criteria we're saying 3218 02:23:36,959 --> 02:23:40,850 we definitely need more data so we can make better 3219 02:23:40,850 --> 02:23:42,360 decisions and always yes 3220 02:23:42,360 --> 02:23:47,600 yeah and in addition to the other new data that that we're 3221 02:23:47,600 --> 02:23:48,840 requesting I would 3222 02:23:48,840 --> 02:23:52,280 like to see of those what is it 231 families that we've 3223 02:23:52,280 --> 02:23:53,600 assisted you know 3224 02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:59,309 how much money is not on average but family by family since 3225 02:23:59,309 --> 02:24:01,200 it's only 231 3226 02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:05,170 without names of course or any identifying but but how much 3227 02:24:05,170 --> 02:24:05,799 money is 3228 02:24:05,799 --> 02:24:12,389 going to each family because my impression was that it was 3229 02:24:12,389 --> 02:24:13,639 a kind of a 3230 02:24:13,639 --> 02:24:18,479 small percentage of the total bill but I recently I talked 3231 02:24:18,479 --> 02:24:19,959 to one rate payer just 3232 02:24:19,959 --> 02:24:28,190 yesterday who just had her entire bill paid for by by inter 3233 02:24:28,190 --> 02:24:29,520 faith and so you 3234 02:24:29,520 --> 02:24:34,250 know if you just if you do the math I mean I I have data on 3235 02:24:34,250 --> 02:24:35,479 that now yes yeah 3236 02:24:35,479 --> 02:24:38,040 oh excellent that would be great to see thank you dollar 3237 02:24:38,040 --> 02:24:39,280 amount of the yeah so 3238 02:24:39,280 --> 02:24:42,729 I'm guessing that that situation is very rare where they 3239 02:24:42,729 --> 02:24:44,520 pay the entire bill but 3240 02:24:44,520 --> 02:24:46,899 again that's why we want to have good criteria so if they 3241 02:24:46,899 --> 02:24:47,680 want to make have 3242 02:24:47,680 --> 02:24:51,129 that authority to make that decision and Randy on the 3243 02:24:51,129 --> 02:24:53,600 homeless waiver do we have 3244 02:24:53,600 --> 02:24:59,750 consensus on that the homelessness waiver and that waiver 3245 02:24:59,750 --> 02:25:00,559 comes through an 3246 02:25:00,559 --> 02:25:06,319 organization that their progress correct yeah that's a 3247 02:25:06,319 --> 02:25:08,120 great idea and then with 3248 02:25:08,120 --> 02:25:11,440 regards to the deposits you had all these four options I'm 3249 02:25:11,440 --> 02:25:12,120 not sure I'm not 3250 02:25:12,120 --> 02:25:15,219 sure we've decided what we wanted to get where we wanted to 3251 02:25:15,219 --> 02:25:17,040 go with those four 3252 02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:21,969 options I'm an option for yeah that's where I'm at and just 3253 02:25:21,969 --> 02:25:23,079 to make certain 3254 02:25:23,079 --> 02:25:27,120 the deposit process at this point in time is that right now 3255 02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:27,799 whenever a 3256 02:25:27,799 --> 02:25:30,690 customer comes into the utility system we'll run that risk 3257 02:25:30,690 --> 02:25:31,559 assessment if 3258 02:25:31,559 --> 02:25:35,010 they're good no deposit if they're fair it would be a one 3259 02:25:35,010 --> 02:25:36,360 month deposit and then 3260 02:25:36,360 --> 02:25:38,850 if they have a higher risk could be a two month deposit and 3261 02:25:38,850 --> 02:25:39,680 with any of those 3262 02:25:39,680 --> 02:25:42,469 deposit requirements we offer payment arrangements for that 3263 02:25:42,469 --> 02:25:43,360 deposit so we'll 3264 02:25:43,360 --> 02:25:47,750 split that deposit out for them on a monthly basis for them 3265 02:25:47,750 --> 02:25:48,840 and so we work 3266 02:25:48,840 --> 02:25:51,920 with their specific situation on that and if they can 3267 02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:53,239 provide a letter from 3268 02:25:53,239 --> 02:25:56,260 their past utility it's waived letter of credit cosigner or 3269 02:25:56,260 --> 02:25:57,520 if they say I'll go 3270 02:25:57,520 --> 02:26:00,590 on draft and we'll waive the deposit for them for that as 3271 02:26:00,590 --> 02:26:01,399 well the real purpose 3272 02:26:01,399 --> 02:26:04,530 for the deposit is to make sure that those utility bills 3273 02:26:04,530 --> 02:26:05,680 get paid so that we 3274 02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:08,850 don't we're not in a deficit because they start out in a 3275 02:26:08,850 --> 02:26:09,799 post but we're in 3276 02:26:09,799 --> 02:26:12,590 essence issuing credit to when someone comes into the 3277 02:26:12,590 --> 02:26:14,040 system because it's post 3278 02:26:14,040 --> 02:26:17,090 paid and so that's why we do the credit assessment on them 3279 02:26:17,090 --> 02:26:17,879 because it's 3280 02:26:17,879 --> 02:26:22,120 postpaid with and again to note what we discussed last 3281 02:26:22,120 --> 02:26:23,040 month is we have the 3282 02:26:23,040 --> 02:26:27,370 prepaid utilities coming on board very soon which would neg 3283 02:26:27,370 --> 02:26:28,799 ate all the deposits 3284 02:26:28,799 --> 02:26:32,930 and the fees for these customers I just I know you just 3285 02:26:32,930 --> 02:26:34,559 said it but when is that 3286 02:26:34,559 --> 02:26:37,979 coming on board next year yep that's the plan hopefully in 3287 02:26:37,979 --> 02:26:39,799 the summer summertime 3288 02:26:39,799 --> 02:26:44,350 for that so deposits I'm hearing that no changes in deposit 3289 02:26:44,350 --> 02:26:45,120 but include the 3290 02:26:45,120 --> 02:26:49,479 deposit waiver for homelessness and then include this 3291 02:26:49,479 --> 02:26:50,719 criteria for plus one 3292 02:26:50,719 --> 02:26:54,840 potentially start out the increase to 125,000 with the new 3293 02:26:54,840 --> 02:26:55,680 contract with the 3294 02:26:55,680 --> 02:27:00,840 ability to amend that based off of needs that we are able 3295 02:27:00,840 --> 02:27:02,799 to pinpoint and bold 3296 02:27:02,799 --> 02:27:07,959 face the more data and then up to the three times a year 3297 02:27:07,959 --> 02:27:08,959 that's another 3298 02:27:08,959 --> 02:27:14,370 agreement from yes I have one question that's sort of 3299 02:27:14,370 --> 02:27:16,239 related how is it that 3300 02:27:16,239 --> 02:27:20,290 if I move out I could possibly have two and a half months 3301 02:27:20,290 --> 02:27:22,040 of unpaid utilities if 3302 02:27:22,040 --> 02:27:25,489 y'all are billing me once a month I guess I could have not 3303 02:27:25,489 --> 02:27:26,319 paid one month 3304 02:27:26,319 --> 02:27:30,309 okay that's it that's you didn't pay your previous month 3305 02:27:30,309 --> 02:27:30,920 and now you have your 3306 02:27:30,920 --> 02:27:34,399 current bill behind on billing no sir once you get your 3307 02:27:34,399 --> 02:27:35,319 current bill you're 3308 02:27:35,319 --> 02:27:38,129 already two weeks in to your next billing cycle so if you 3309 02:27:38,129 --> 02:27:39,040 didn't pay and 3310 02:27:39,040 --> 02:27:41,520 then you have a new bill and then it's two weeks in so it 3311 02:27:41,520 --> 02:27:42,479 could be upwards of 3312 02:27:42,479 --> 02:27:49,319 two and a half months thank you any other questions I will 3313 02:27:49,319 --> 02:27:50,040 say just about 3314 02:27:50,040 --> 02:27:54,079 just about the map I mean it is that people are spread out 3315 02:27:54,079 --> 02:27:56,200 all over town but 3316 02:27:56,200 --> 02:27:58,579 you know if you look closely you can look at in the South 3317 02:27:58,579 --> 02:27:59,319 ridge and some 3318 02:27:59,319 --> 02:28:02,120 of the other more expensive neighborhoods you aren't really 3319 02:28:02,120 --> 02:28:02,680 finding 3320 02:28:02,680 --> 02:28:08,329 that many deposit payers in there so and so that's why I'm 3321 02:28:08,329 --> 02:28:10,280 you know because I 3322 02:28:10,280 --> 02:28:14,120 believe until I see proof to the contrary I am just going 3323 02:28:14,120 --> 02:28:15,239 to go with it 3324 02:28:15,239 --> 02:28:18,680 with what I see anecdotally and in terms of national 3325 02:28:18,680 --> 02:28:19,639 statistics that this 3326 02:28:19,639 --> 02:28:23,840 credit-based policy ends up targeting poor people I know 3327 02:28:23,840 --> 02:28:24,360 that wasn't the 3328 02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:27,510 intention so I support the homelessness deposit waiver but 3329 02:28:27,510 --> 02:28:28,520 I'm not part of the 3330 02:28:28,520 --> 02:28:33,579 consensus on you know supporting option option four but I 3331 02:28:33,579 --> 02:28:34,319 do support the 3332 02:28:34,319 --> 02:28:38,000 improvements to the plus one I know this is ready Dan but I 3333 02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:38,780 didn't have one 3334 02:28:38,780 --> 02:28:42,639 question since we have and they may do this but it's 3335 02:28:42,639 --> 02:28:45,079 discouraging to find out 3336 02:28:45,079 --> 02:28:48,700 that they're at whatever level their support there is an 3337 02:28:48,700 --> 02:28:50,040 agency that we've 3338 02:28:50,040 --> 02:28:56,190 been proactive the city's been proactive on and yet those 3339 02:28:56,190 --> 02:28:57,920 that need assistance 3340 02:28:57,920 --> 02:29:02,250 that are having such hardship fail either fill out the 3341 02:29:02,250 --> 02:29:03,639 application even 3342 02:29:03,639 --> 02:29:10,440 though they've been told or show up for an appointment now 3343 02:29:10,440 --> 02:29:12,280 I don't know if they 3344 02:29:12,280 --> 02:29:18,430 provide like for low-income housings homebuyer assistance 3345 02:29:18,430 --> 02:29:19,360 and things like 3346 02:29:19,360 --> 02:29:23,690 that to educate people more or credit but and this isn't 3347 02:29:23,690 --> 02:29:25,120 something that we 3348 02:29:25,120 --> 02:29:28,790 would get involved in but I'm just wondering if some of 3349 02:29:28,790 --> 02:29:30,719 these agencies that 3350 02:29:30,719 --> 02:29:34,940 work including the one the ministries offer something like 3351 02:29:34,940 --> 02:29:36,120 that or if it's 3352 02:29:36,120 --> 02:29:38,549 like take it or leave it here it is we have it and if you 3353 02:29:38,549 --> 02:29:39,319 might take the 3354 02:29:39,319 --> 02:29:43,680 initiative fine and if you don't well sorry 3355 02:29:43,680 --> 02:29:47,200 just a holistic approach whenever they're trying to help 3356 02:29:47,200 --> 02:29:48,399 the customers but 3357 02:29:48,399 --> 02:29:51,610 to your to echo your point I was very surprised that 50% 3358 02:29:51,610 --> 02:29:52,559 was declined or 3359 02:29:52,559 --> 02:29:54,780 didn't get assistance because they didn't show up to the 3360 02:29:54,780 --> 02:29:55,879 appointment didn't 3361 02:29:55,879 --> 02:30:02,239 fill out the proper paperwork I'm not surprised I'm not 3362 02:30:02,239 --> 02:30:03,239 surprised 3363 02:30:11,360 --> 02:30:25,840 okay I think you got your thank you 3364 02:30:25,879 --> 02:30:53,770 okay next we have actually we have I think items D&E are 3365 02:30:53,770 --> 02:30:55,079 pretty much on the 3366 02:30:55,079 --> 02:30:58,500 same presentation so we can just go through both of those 3367 02:30:58,500 --> 02:30:59,520 at the same time 3368 02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:04,079 sure well good good late morning Mario can is ours as a 3369 02:31:04,079 --> 02:31:05,159 city manager I just 3370 02:31:05,159 --> 02:31:08,059 wanted to bring a couple items to the board's attention 3371 02:31:08,059 --> 02:31:09,319 that were brought up 3372 02:31:09,319 --> 02:31:13,770 here over the last few weeks one of those is to a 3373 02:31:13,770 --> 02:31:15,760 suggestion was made on a 3374 02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:19,840 previous board meeting about placing certain expenditure 3375 02:31:19,840 --> 02:31:21,540 items on that were 3376 02:31:21,540 --> 02:31:25,469 on a pubs agenda for individual consideration and the 3377 02:31:25,469 --> 02:31:26,959 second item was to 3378 02:31:26,959 --> 02:31:29,760 give consideration that changing the meeting times of the 3379 02:31:29,760 --> 02:31:30,719 board meeting so I 3380 02:31:30,719 --> 02:31:34,170 just wanted to go over a few slides and then at the 3381 02:31:34,170 --> 02:31:36,000 conclusion see try to get 3382 02:31:36,000 --> 02:31:38,409 some understanding as to how the board wants to proceed 3383 02:31:38,409 --> 02:31:39,200 further on these 3384 02:31:39,200 --> 02:31:43,129 matters the first one was it was item was raised back in 3385 02:31:43,129 --> 02:31:44,319 late September about 3386 02:31:44,319 --> 02:31:46,850 placing certain expenditure items I believe it was fifty 3387 02:31:46,850 --> 02:31:47,840 thousand dollars or 3388 02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:53,010 more for individual consideration but before we just delve 3389 02:31:53,010 --> 02:31:55,040 into that exact 3390 02:31:55,040 --> 02:31:58,479 item I just wanted to go over a few things that things that 3391 02:31:58,479 --> 02:31:59,360 are placed on 3392 02:31:59,360 --> 02:32:04,600 the pub agenda and and why and just so you again just for 3393 02:32:04,600 --> 02:32:05,600 the for the public 3394 02:32:05,600 --> 02:32:09,049 that's watching or maybe streaming it later they get an 3395 02:32:09,049 --> 02:32:10,319 understanding as how 3396 02:32:10,319 --> 02:32:14,010 the pub agenda works as you heard earlier this morning we 3397 02:32:14,010 --> 02:32:14,799 have number of 3398 02:32:14,799 --> 02:32:17,600 work session items that are placed on the pub on a regular 3399 02:32:17,600 --> 02:32:18,399 basis to bring 3400 02:32:18,399 --> 02:32:21,549 information to the board seek direction or just really 3401 02:32:21,549 --> 02:32:23,079 share information so that 3402 02:32:23,079 --> 02:32:26,690 at some point in the future the board can make a a 3403 02:32:26,690 --> 02:32:28,059 consideration whether it's 3404 02:32:28,059 --> 02:32:34,319 on the individual consideration or even for the for consent 3405 02:32:34,319 --> 02:32:35,639 during the during 3406 02:32:35,639 --> 02:32:39,760 the spring and summer every year we bring forward operating 3407 02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:41,000 budgets related 3408 02:32:41,000 --> 02:32:45,000 to the utility to utility funds we also bring capital 3409 02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:46,000 improvement budgets to you 3410 02:32:46,000 --> 02:32:49,479 all for you all to review and give feedback to the staff 3411 02:32:49,479 --> 02:32:50,600 about how we're 3412 02:32:50,600 --> 02:32:54,559 proceeding as we build our upcoming budget for the next 3413 02:32:54,559 --> 02:32:56,239 fiscal year or future 3414 02:32:56,239 --> 02:33:01,379 years on occasion we have closed closed session items when 3415 02:33:01,379 --> 02:33:02,120 we're bringing 3416 02:33:02,120 --> 02:33:07,219 forward things related to legal matters real estate matters 3417 02:33:07,219 --> 02:33:08,239 as as those things 3418 02:33:08,239 --> 02:33:12,709 are brought forward and even on competitive a competitive 3419 02:33:12,709 --> 02:33:13,000 electrical 3420 02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:17,229 rate matter so again to make sure that we are making sure 3421 02:33:17,229 --> 02:33:17,920 that we're 3422 02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:21,420 competing appropriately on the electrical rates and not 3423 02:33:21,420 --> 02:33:22,399 disclosing any 3424 02:33:22,399 --> 02:33:27,239 information that that is that is not appropriate recently 3425 02:33:27,239 --> 02:33:29,200 the board reviewed 3426 02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:32,889 some information related to not-for-profit how we how we 3427 02:33:32,889 --> 02:33:33,520 sponsor 3428 02:33:33,520 --> 02:33:37,489 not-for-profit entities the council recently considered an 3429 02:33:37,489 --> 02:33:38,399 item from the 3430 02:33:38,399 --> 02:33:43,540 from Denton municipal electric also utility fund and and 3431 02:33:43,540 --> 02:33:44,479 and wastewater 3432 02:33:44,479 --> 02:33:48,079 funds on the not-for-profit so anything over $2,500 is 3433 02:33:48,079 --> 02:33:49,440 brought forward to the 3434 02:33:49,440 --> 02:33:52,020 PUB for your consideration on it for individual 3435 02:33:52,020 --> 02:33:53,440 consideration with the staff 3436 02:33:53,440 --> 02:33:56,229 report and then it also be brought forward to the City 3437 02:33:56,229 --> 02:33:57,719 Council at their at 3438 02:33:57,719 --> 02:34:00,350 one of their upcoming council meetings any time there's a 3439 02:34:00,350 --> 02:34:01,360 procurement matter 3440 02:34:01,360 --> 02:34:04,879 will bring forward if it's $100,000 or more that will be 3441 02:34:04,879 --> 02:34:05,760 also brought forward 3442 02:34:05,760 --> 02:34:09,360 and at a PUB and then for council for their consideration 3443 02:34:09,360 --> 02:34:10,600 there are occasions 3444 02:34:10,600 --> 02:34:14,049 where an item may be brought forward that's under the 100k 3445 02:34:14,049 --> 02:34:14,879 threshold but 3446 02:34:14,879 --> 02:34:18,879 usually it's for some things that are non recurring unique 3447 02:34:18,879 --> 02:34:20,559 things that are just 3448 02:34:20,559 --> 02:34:23,850 fall outside of the ordinary and again just more to bring 3449 02:34:23,850 --> 02:34:24,600 to the PUB's 3450 02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:27,729 attention and give your consideration and guidance as we 3451 02:34:27,729 --> 02:34:28,840 bring those things 3452 02:34:28,840 --> 02:34:32,579 forward and last but not least things that are special 3453 02:34:32,579 --> 02:34:33,879 projects unique things 3454 02:34:33,879 --> 02:34:36,809 that are brought forward certainly the the Weaver and Tid 3455 02:34:36,809 --> 02:34:37,879 well report that you 3456 02:34:37,879 --> 02:34:41,010 heard this morning the Black and Beach report those things 3457 02:34:41,010 --> 02:34:42,559 that are that are not 3458 02:34:42,559 --> 02:34:46,159 typically done on a year-in-year-out basis but are special 3459 02:34:46,159 --> 02:34:47,559 projects we bring 3460 02:34:47,559 --> 02:34:50,159 those things forward whether it's to engage into a 3461 02:34:50,159 --> 02:34:51,459 consulting contract to 3462 02:34:51,459 --> 02:34:54,260 give you the scope of the project allow you to give you 3463 02:34:54,260 --> 02:34:55,059 give you some 3464 02:34:55,059 --> 02:34:58,510 information so that you can then consider that so that the 3465 02:34:58,510 --> 02:34:59,239 staff can move 3466 02:34:59,239 --> 02:35:02,389 forward if you deem so if it's appropriate and then we'll 3467 02:35:02,389 --> 02:35:03,159 bring those 3468 02:35:03,159 --> 02:35:06,610 things forward for you for your review certainly anything 3469 02:35:06,610 --> 02:35:07,719 related to policy 3470 02:35:07,719 --> 02:35:10,520 matters if we're amending a policy adding a policy deleting 3471 02:35:10,520 --> 02:35:11,319 a policy just 3472 02:35:11,319 --> 02:35:13,840 like what you just heard just a moment ago about about 3473 02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:15,079 deposits and things that 3474 02:35:15,079 --> 02:35:18,500 age or so it falls right in line with some of the things 3475 02:35:18,500 --> 02:35:19,200 that that that the 3476 02:35:19,200 --> 02:35:22,170 PUB considers and then as I mentioned earlier just these 3477 02:35:22,170 --> 02:35:23,280 new does not a routine 3478 02:35:23,280 --> 02:35:26,540 one-time expenditure items that are brought forward for for 3479 02:35:26,540 --> 02:35:27,440 your attention 3480 02:35:27,440 --> 02:35:35,239 to review. Mouse is going a little haywire here. 3481 02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:41,049 So we use a consent items again the consent agenda item 3482 02:35:41,049 --> 02:35:42,920 just like with any 3483 02:35:42,920 --> 02:35:46,600 board governing board it's allowed it's it's intended so 3484 02:35:46,600 --> 02:35:47,760 that you have a 3485 02:35:47,760 --> 02:35:51,500 slated items on your agenda if it's posted accordingly 3486 02:35:51,500 --> 02:35:52,600 where the governing 3487 02:35:52,600 --> 02:35:55,700 board can make one motion a second and approve that those 3488 02:35:55,700 --> 02:35:56,479 slated items 3489 02:35:56,479 --> 02:35:58,879 accordingly to again to make the agenda run more 3490 02:35:58,879 --> 02:36:01,520 efficiently certainly a member 3491 02:36:01,520 --> 02:36:04,959 with a city council member or governing board can pull an 3492 02:36:04,959 --> 02:36:06,159 item from consent to 3493 02:36:06,159 --> 02:36:09,360 get additional information from staff or receive a report 3494 02:36:09,360 --> 02:36:10,399 or go through some 3495 02:36:10,399 --> 02:36:15,090 details about the item and and and greater detail and then 3496 02:36:15,090 --> 02:36:15,920 the board could 3497 02:36:15,920 --> 02:36:18,829 then consider that individually so you always have that 3498 02:36:18,829 --> 02:36:20,040 option but really the 3499 02:36:20,040 --> 02:36:23,059 items for consent that we typically use those things are 3500 02:36:23,059 --> 02:36:24,319 for more of those more 3501 02:36:24,319 --> 02:36:27,139 routine things that that are brought forward whether it's a 3502 02:36:27,139 --> 02:36:28,079 restocking item 3503 02:36:28,079 --> 02:36:32,409 certainly utility funds and I gave some examples here pipes 3504 02:36:32,409 --> 02:36:34,659 valves maybe on some 3505 02:36:34,659 --> 02:36:39,500 occasion contract contracts with a consultant things that 3506 02:36:39,500 --> 02:36:39,840 are done on a 3507 02:36:39,840 --> 02:36:43,959 more routine basis for again just a cost of doing business 3508 02:36:43,959 --> 02:36:45,079 for for for our 3509 02:36:45,079 --> 02:36:49,629 utility operations more belts and suspenders kind of items 3510 02:36:49,629 --> 02:36:50,639 those things 3511 02:36:50,639 --> 02:36:53,649 are typically well they will be budgeted within the 3512 02:36:53,649 --> 02:36:55,920 operating budgets or the CIP 3513 02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:59,370 budgets they've run through our normal procurement 3514 02:36:59,370 --> 02:37:02,000 procedures so they've been 3515 02:37:02,000 --> 02:37:05,989 vetted through a bid or an RFQ RFP process so again these 3516 02:37:05,989 --> 02:37:07,239 things are more 3517 02:37:07,239 --> 02:37:10,840 routine in nature and the purpose of that as I mentioned 3518 02:37:10,840 --> 02:37:12,319 earlier is to allow 3519 02:37:12,319 --> 02:37:15,489 it to for your your agendas to run more efficiently and the 3520 02:37:15,489 --> 02:37:16,559 intent is to allow 3521 02:37:16,559 --> 02:37:20,010 the board to have higher level discussions whether it's 3522 02:37:20,010 --> 02:37:20,559 regarding 3523 02:37:20,559 --> 02:37:24,620 policy matters or other important issues so that you have 3524 02:37:24,620 --> 02:37:26,040 some time to really 3525 02:37:26,040 --> 02:37:30,280 delve into the topic have debate amongst yourselves develop 3526 02:37:30,280 --> 02:37:31,479 develop consensus and 3527 02:37:31,479 --> 02:37:34,129 give staff direction so that we can move forward so that's 3528 02:37:34,129 --> 02:37:35,680 really the use of the 3529 02:37:35,680 --> 02:37:40,520 consent and the agenda and not many more slides I mean 3530 02:37:40,520 --> 02:37:41,520 certainly we just want to 3531 02:37:41,520 --> 02:37:44,350 get some direction from you all if you want to consent 3532 02:37:44,350 --> 02:37:45,719 consider excuse me 3533 02:37:45,719 --> 02:37:49,440 continue using the consent agenda process and how it's used 3534 02:37:49,440 --> 02:37:50,319 as described 3535 02:37:50,319 --> 02:37:53,610 earlier or if you need additional information or if you 3536 02:37:53,610 --> 02:37:54,280 want to go a 3537 02:37:54,280 --> 02:37:56,879 different direction we're just here to present some of this 3538 02:37:56,879 --> 02:37:57,959 information so that 3539 02:37:57,959 --> 02:38:02,100 we know how to build your future agendas and I'll have 3540 02:38:02,100 --> 02:38:05,760 comments questions yes is 3541 02:38:05,760 --> 02:38:10,600 there a mechanism or a tool where we store this information 3542 02:38:10,600 --> 02:38:11,360 like you just 3543 02:38:11,360 --> 02:38:15,030 told us like some procedures and policies that we follow as 3544 02:38:15,030 --> 02:38:15,680 as a board 3545 02:38:15,680 --> 02:38:18,709 but we don't actually have I mean I imagine they're in our 3546 02:38:18,709 --> 02:38:19,520 minutes if we 3547 02:38:19,520 --> 02:38:23,329 wanted to go back and look and see what we do but in this 3548 02:38:23,329 --> 02:38:25,200 situation we have we 3549 02:38:25,200 --> 02:38:28,649 we had a situation where a board member wanted to change 3550 02:38:28,649 --> 02:38:29,920 something that we do 3551 02:38:29,920 --> 02:38:32,750 it's really a loose procedure but as you pointed out it's 3552 02:38:32,750 --> 02:38:33,760 something that we 3553 02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:36,600 typically do well what we've what we've done at least in 3554 02:38:36,600 --> 02:38:37,479 the time that I've been 3555 02:38:37,479 --> 02:38:39,799 here obviously you have the minutes that you can always go 3556 02:38:39,799 --> 02:38:41,159 back and see and so you 3557 02:38:41,159 --> 02:38:43,399 know any board member is welcome or any member of the 3558 02:38:43,399 --> 02:38:44,520 public is welcome to reach 3559 02:38:44,520 --> 02:38:47,540 out at the city manager's office to or any of our public 3560 02:38:47,540 --> 02:38:49,159 utility or see me any 3561 02:38:49,159 --> 02:38:53,020 utility departments to to try to get historical information 3562 02:38:53,020 --> 02:38:53,600 of what a 3563 02:38:53,600 --> 02:38:56,370 previous board or even a more recent board decision was 3564 02:38:56,370 --> 02:38:57,360 made so we can look 3565 02:38:57,360 --> 02:39:00,489 at the minutes the other mechanism which we use is the ACM 3566 02:39:00,489 --> 02:39:02,100 new business matrix so 3567 02:39:02,100 --> 02:39:04,610 as items are brought forward at the end of a board meeting 3568 02:39:04,610 --> 02:39:05,799 at concluding items if 3569 02:39:05,799 --> 02:39:08,340 there's something that you you or any other board member 3570 02:39:08,340 --> 02:39:09,159 would like to get 3571 02:39:09,159 --> 02:39:13,489 more information on or would like for staff to do some 3572 02:39:13,489 --> 02:39:15,079 research on we take 3573 02:39:15,079 --> 02:39:18,739 that and then we we work internally as far as a staff and 3574 02:39:18,739 --> 02:39:20,000 determine the amount 3575 02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:22,389 of time it might take to to research a matter and if it 3576 02:39:22,389 --> 02:39:23,479 takes something that 3577 02:39:23,479 --> 02:39:26,079 takes a little bit more time then then what we try to do is 3578 02:39:26,079 --> 02:39:26,959 bring bring that 3579 02:39:26,959 --> 02:39:29,840 information to you at the next board meeting to give you an 3580 02:39:29,840 --> 02:39:30,700 idea of when that 3581 02:39:30,700 --> 02:39:34,690 item may be forthcoming so kind of schedule your your 3582 02:39:34,690 --> 02:39:35,520 discussions 3583 02:39:35,520 --> 02:39:38,649 accordingly and the other thing that we're doing to that's 3584 02:39:38,649 --> 02:39:39,159 at least 3585 02:39:39,159 --> 02:39:41,760 relatively new thing based on some other comments that were 3586 02:39:41,760 --> 02:39:42,540 made in previous 3587 02:39:42,540 --> 02:39:46,680 boards is to try to keep a track of upcoming board agenda 3588 02:39:46,680 --> 02:39:48,040 items so things are 3589 02:39:48,040 --> 02:39:52,069 of higher of a higher importance not necessarily just 3590 02:39:52,069 --> 02:39:53,479 typical procurement 3591 02:39:53,479 --> 02:39:56,360 things but things that may be a policy matter or just 3592 02:39:56,360 --> 02:39:57,639 things that that may 3593 02:39:57,639 --> 02:40:01,079 require some discussion or a consultant that may be coming 3594 02:40:01,079 --> 02:40:01,760 forward we'd like to 3595 02:40:01,760 --> 02:40:05,879 keep track of those future agenda meetings so that you as a 3596 02:40:05,879 --> 02:40:06,920 board kind of 3597 02:40:06,920 --> 02:40:10,370 getting a feel for what's coming in December or coming in 3598 02:40:10,370 --> 02:40:11,120 January as we 3599 02:40:11,120 --> 02:40:14,020 start building those agendas is that answer your question 3600 02:40:14,020 --> 02:40:16,520 or sorta sorta okay 3601 02:40:16,520 --> 02:40:20,120 we can visit later and to kind of get a little more details 3602 02:40:20,120 --> 02:40:22,600 I guess I guess you 3603 02:40:22,600 --> 02:40:26,379 know maybe a handbook or bylaws or something like that oh 3604 02:40:26,379 --> 02:40:27,159 okay committees 3605 02:40:27,159 --> 02:40:29,879 will have you know something that you know outside of 3606 02:40:29,879 --> 02:40:30,879 Robert's Rules of 3607 02:40:30,879 --> 02:40:35,209 Order that governs their activities and rules procedure 3608 02:40:35,209 --> 02:40:36,520 yeah we can certainly we 3609 02:40:36,520 --> 02:40:39,940 can certainly build a rules procedure book you know in 3610 02:40:39,940 --> 02:40:41,319 terms of incorporating 3611 02:40:41,319 --> 02:40:44,139 how we've typically run the meeting we certainly have that 3612 02:40:44,139 --> 02:40:45,079 for the City Council 3613 02:40:45,079 --> 02:40:49,239 and but I think that the feedback Mario is trying to get 3614 02:40:49,239 --> 02:40:50,559 from you is kind of an 3615 02:40:50,559 --> 02:40:53,979 explanation of how something winds up on a consent agenda a 3616 02:40:53,979 --> 02:40:55,040 lot of time there's 3617 02:40:55,040 --> 02:40:58,000 there's sort of a call there depending on how busy you are 3618 02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:00,000 but you know it's 3619 02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:02,840 it's we can certainly put you know something together for a 3620 02:41:02,840 --> 02:41:03,600 few pages that 3621 02:41:03,600 --> 02:41:05,649 kind of dictates how we're gonna put these agenda yeah I 3622 02:41:05,649 --> 02:41:06,399 was really using just 3623 02:41:06,399 --> 02:41:13,209 the opportunity to bring that's kind of on I would I would 3624 02:41:13,209 --> 02:41:13,680 like that I think 3625 02:41:13,680 --> 02:41:16,479 that would be helpful and it'd be helpful we're gonna have 3626 02:41:16,479 --> 02:41:17,000 some slots 3627 02:41:17,000 --> 02:41:22,879 opening up and when new people come on I and I don't know 3628 02:41:22,879 --> 02:41:24,440 what y'all are gonna 3629 02:41:24,440 --> 02:41:29,489 think about this I'm curious to see how the rest of PUB 3630 02:41:29,489 --> 02:41:32,360 feels about this but you 3631 02:41:32,360 --> 02:41:35,170 know since we're an advisory committee to council we're in 3632 02:41:35,170 --> 02:41:36,600 an advisory capacity 3633 02:41:36,600 --> 02:41:42,479 to them they obviously have you know so many things to deal 3634 02:41:42,479 --> 02:41:43,239 with because it's 3635 02:41:43,239 --> 02:41:46,690 the whole city so I understand why they need a consent 3636 02:41:46,690 --> 02:41:48,760 agenda I do understand 3637 02:41:48,760 --> 02:41:51,549 that us having a consent agenda definitely makes meetings 3638 02:41:51,549 --> 02:41:52,159 shorter I 3639 02:41:52,159 --> 02:41:59,610 understand that but I myself would support doing away with 3640 02:41:59,610 --> 02:42:00,360 consent agenda 3641 02:42:00,360 --> 02:42:07,260 for the public utility board so that then the public can 3642 02:42:07,260 --> 02:42:09,120 see that that 3643 02:42:09,120 --> 02:42:13,239 everything that ends up getting voted on by council even 3644 02:42:13,239 --> 02:42:15,680 utilities items that go 3645 02:42:15,680 --> 02:42:21,940 on their consent agenda have been vetted and discussed or 3646 02:42:21,940 --> 02:42:23,440 at least had the 3647 02:42:23,440 --> 02:42:29,219 opportunity to discuss on the public utility board I think 3648 02:42:29,219 --> 02:42:30,079 that would be a 3649 02:42:30,079 --> 02:42:36,319 really good move as far as you know a gesture to the public 3650 02:42:36,319 --> 02:42:37,799 you know showing 3651 02:42:37,799 --> 02:42:41,870 what what we do and how seriously we take what we do on the 3652 02:42:41,870 --> 02:42:43,040 UB if an item 3653 02:42:43,040 --> 02:42:47,370 comes up that's just you know a simple item hey we need 3654 02:42:47,370 --> 02:42:49,079 this equipment and 3655 02:42:49,079 --> 02:42:53,790 here's why we needed any questions no then that's you know 3656 02:42:53,790 --> 02:42:55,760 what five seconds 3657 02:42:55,760 --> 02:43:00,799 ten seconds more I don't think you know looking around the 3658 02:43:00,799 --> 02:43:02,000 room I you know I I 3659 02:43:02,000 --> 02:43:05,629 can't imagine that we would have you know huge 3660 02:43:05,629 --> 02:43:08,000 conversations on items that 3661 02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:10,629 appear to all of us to just be okay that sounds good you 3662 02:43:10,629 --> 02:43:11,879 know we don't need a big 3663 02:43:11,879 --> 02:43:14,649 PowerPoint presentation on everything but just to show the 3664 02:43:14,649 --> 02:43:15,840 public that we've had 3665 02:43:15,840 --> 02:43:18,379 the opportunity before it goes on the council consent 3666 02:43:18,379 --> 02:43:19,479 agenda anyway I would 3667 02:43:19,479 --> 02:43:22,920 I would support that doing away with consent agenda for PUB 3668 02:43:22,920 --> 02:43:24,959 thanks I think 3669 02:43:24,959 --> 02:43:27,840 just because it's on a consent agenda doesn't mean that we 3670 02:43:27,840 --> 02:43:28,639 aren't paying 3671 02:43:28,639 --> 02:43:31,659 attention and vetting it and asking questions and still 3672 02:43:31,659 --> 02:43:32,879 have the opportunity 3673 02:43:32,879 --> 02:43:37,280 to remove it from consent agenda for a further discussion 3674 02:43:37,280 --> 02:43:39,079 there are some things 3675 02:43:39,079 --> 02:43:42,879 that are just routine in nature and and I support keeping 3676 02:43:42,879 --> 02:43:44,799 the consent agenda for 3677 02:43:44,799 --> 02:43:48,239 those reasons but I love the work sessions that we're doing 3678 02:43:48,239 --> 02:43:48,879 getting into 3679 02:43:48,879 --> 02:43:52,760 those things and if we've gone through a work session and v 3680 02:43:52,760 --> 02:43:53,680 etted it very 3681 02:43:53,680 --> 02:43:57,889 carefully then it could go on consent agenda I don't want 3682 02:43:57,889 --> 02:43:59,520 us to you know act 3683 02:43:59,520 --> 02:44:02,649 like we're not paying attention I don't know what the thing 3684 02:44:02,649 --> 02:44:04,280 you said we are 3685 02:44:04,280 --> 02:44:07,729 vetting those things we do take it seriously it I 3686 02:44:07,729 --> 02:44:09,239 understand and again I 3687 02:44:09,239 --> 02:44:11,709 mean when when things come up on the consent agenda I read 3688 02:44:11,709 --> 02:44:12,559 everything I know 3689 02:44:12,559 --> 02:44:15,190 we all we all study everything on the consent agenda 3690 02:44:15,190 --> 02:44:16,520 contracts oh yeah no life 3691 02:44:16,520 --> 02:44:20,239 so yeah no no I'm not talking about so on the one hand 3692 02:44:20,239 --> 02:44:21,200 there's like what we do 3693 02:44:21,200 --> 02:44:24,159 you know which is and you know and I know we're all 3694 02:44:24,159 --> 02:44:26,360 studying it but just in 3695 02:44:26,360 --> 02:44:30,909 terms of perception to the public I think it would be a 3696 02:44:30,909 --> 02:44:32,600 good public relations 3697 02:44:32,600 --> 02:44:40,049 move to show them on camera that we're doing this because 3698 02:44:40,049 --> 02:44:42,319 they can't see us and 3699 02:44:42,319 --> 02:44:46,319 again I know I myself know that we're working on this stuff 3700 02:44:46,319 --> 02:44:47,280 you know but as 3701 02:44:47,280 --> 02:44:50,280 far as the public's concern anything that doesn't happen on 3702 02:44:50,280 --> 02:44:51,079 camera in this 3703 02:44:51,079 --> 02:44:56,100 room around this table they don't get they don't get to see 3704 02:44:56,100 --> 02:44:57,360 it so we've opened 3705 02:44:57,360 --> 02:45:01,299 things up so much in this city and it's having a positive 3706 02:45:01,299 --> 02:45:02,399 effect at a critical 3707 02:45:02,399 --> 02:45:07,469 time so anyway but just to be clear that I do know I know 3708 02:45:07,469 --> 02:45:08,639 you're doing the work I 3709 02:45:08,639 --> 02:45:12,090 see you know I see it and I do know that we can always pull 3710 02:45:12,090 --> 02:45:13,399 something so I'm 3711 02:45:13,399 --> 02:45:21,680 really thinking almost exclusively about perception issues 3712 02:45:21,680 --> 02:45:25,520 any other opinions 3713 02:45:25,520 --> 02:45:33,920 consent agenda you know these things I don't know how much 3714 02:45:33,920 --> 02:45:34,760 time you say but 3715 02:45:34,760 --> 02:45:41,010 doing consent agendas it is I have seen it where we've we 3716 02:45:41,010 --> 02:45:42,479 've had consent agenda 3717 02:45:42,479 --> 02:45:45,899 items after a work session we've already spent a lot of 3718 02:45:45,899 --> 02:45:47,239 time on so you know why 3719 02:45:47,239 --> 02:45:51,040 do you open it up for discussion again after you've already 3720 02:45:51,040 --> 02:45:53,000 discussed it you 3721 02:45:53,000 --> 02:45:55,559 know having the opportunity to pull one at any time plus 3722 02:45:55,559 --> 02:45:56,639 all the backup is there 3723 02:45:56,639 --> 02:46:01,479 and it's the backup is there not only for for us but also 3724 02:46:01,479 --> 02:46:02,680 online you can pull 3725 02:46:02,680 --> 02:46:10,479 the I legislate backup material it's open to the public so 3726 02:46:10,479 --> 02:46:13,360 I don't think the 3727 02:46:13,360 --> 02:46:16,069 consent agenda is there to try to hide something certainly 3728 02:46:16,069 --> 02:46:17,159 it's just to make it 3729 02:46:17,159 --> 02:46:21,360 make it more efficient and if if if we leave things on the 3730 02:46:21,360 --> 02:46:22,760 consent agenda we 3731 02:46:22,760 --> 02:46:26,389 always have the opportunity to take it off is my if there's 3732 02:46:26,389 --> 02:46:28,120 a question or some 3733 02:46:28,120 --> 02:46:33,159 clarity clarification or something like that so the 3734 02:46:33,159 --> 02:46:34,799 information is available is 3735 02:46:34,799 --> 02:46:38,760 that correct yes ma'am all agenda items have agenda 3736 02:46:38,760 --> 02:46:39,959 information sheet and then 3737 02:46:39,959 --> 02:46:42,680 if there's a contract a contract and any other supporting 3738 02:46:42,680 --> 02:46:44,180 documentation actually 3739 02:46:44,180 --> 02:46:48,040 I think it's rare that we don't have at least one item 3740 02:46:48,040 --> 02:46:49,639 pulled off of the consent 3741 02:46:49,639 --> 02:46:53,350 yeah I agree it's very I think we had one meeting in the 3742 02:46:53,350 --> 02:46:53,920 last couple years 3743 02:46:53,920 --> 02:47:00,450 where historically I think when they've been pulled it's it 3744 02:47:00,450 --> 02:47:01,920 's one quick question 3745 02:47:01,920 --> 02:47:06,600 a lot of time presentation or need to abstain from a vote 3746 02:47:06,600 --> 02:47:08,120 or whatever yeah yeah 3747 02:47:08,120 --> 02:47:12,059 there's something interesting that you just wanted to get 3748 02:47:12,059 --> 02:47:13,040 an overview absolutely 3749 02:47:13,040 --> 02:47:17,639 okay so what's the direction yes keep putting on the 3750 02:47:17,639 --> 02:47:19,879 consent agenda but just 3751 02:47:19,879 --> 02:47:25,350 know that it may be pulled off okay so just continue it 3752 02:47:25,350 --> 02:47:26,399 works well keep doing 3753 02:47:26,399 --> 02:47:30,159 okay as long as the information is available to the public 3754 02:47:30,159 --> 02:47:32,120 yeah it's it's 3755 02:47:32,120 --> 02:47:35,190 online all the backup is there I think that needs to be 3756 02:47:35,190 --> 02:47:36,760 stressed that even 3757 02:47:36,760 --> 02:47:41,860 though it's on a consent agenda every bit of the backup and 3758 02:47:41,860 --> 02:47:45,239 supporting documents 3759 02:47:45,239 --> 02:47:51,559 or whatever it is is online yes so thanks for thanks 3760 02:47:51,559 --> 02:47:52,239 everybody for 3761 02:47:52,239 --> 02:47:56,700 discussing that and thanks staff for putting that item on 3762 02:47:56,700 --> 02:47:57,200 the agenda the next 3763 02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:01,030 item is again as I mentioned earlier but consideration of 3764 02:48:01,030 --> 02:48:02,440 scheduling future PUB 3765 02:48:02,440 --> 02:48:07,850 meetings meet excuse me PUB meetings into the evening only 3766 02:48:07,850 --> 02:48:10,559 one slide as you 3767 02:48:10,559 --> 02:48:13,299 know we the PUB meets on the second and fourth Monday in 3768 02:48:13,299 --> 02:48:14,639 the morning at 9 a.m. 3769 02:48:14,639 --> 02:48:18,500 there are some options that the board can consider as 3770 02:48:18,500 --> 02:48:20,239 listed here on this on 3771 02:48:20,239 --> 02:48:22,809 the on the screen you can continue doing the way you've 3772 02:48:22,809 --> 02:48:24,120 been doing it you can go 3773 02:48:24,120 --> 02:48:27,190 to all the evening meetings or you can do a hybrid where 3774 02:48:27,190 --> 02:48:28,639 you can alternate one in 3775 02:48:28,639 --> 02:48:31,190 the morning one in the evening or consider other options 3776 02:48:31,190 --> 02:48:32,000 that we did look 3777 02:48:32,000 --> 02:48:35,610 at just some quick scheduling just a little back at just 3778 02:48:35,610 --> 02:48:36,440 some logistical 3779 02:48:36,440 --> 02:48:40,469 things just so you are aware didn't go to every single day 3780 02:48:40,469 --> 02:48:42,239 of the week but this 3781 02:48:42,239 --> 02:48:46,569 is a very busy room it gets used quite a bit and so as you 3782 02:48:46,569 --> 02:48:49,120 know we record all our 3783 02:48:49,120 --> 02:48:52,760 PUB meetings so video record and stream and and it's 3784 02:48:52,760 --> 02:48:54,399 recorded so that people can 3785 02:48:54,399 --> 02:49:00,040 watch it and into the future past meetings and so there's 3786 02:49:00,040 --> 02:49:00,399 some quick 3787 02:49:00,399 --> 02:49:03,639 checking with the city secretary's office at night so if 3788 02:49:03,639 --> 02:49:04,600 you were to keep 3789 02:49:04,600 --> 02:49:07,590 it on say a Monday if you were to move it to a Monday night 3790 02:49:07,590 --> 02:49:08,620 meeting just to 3791 02:49:08,620 --> 02:49:11,569 make you aware there is a conflict with the Traffic Safety 3792 02:49:11,569 --> 02:49:12,680 Commission meets on 3793 02:49:12,680 --> 02:49:16,120 the first Monday of the month on the second the historical 3794 02:49:16,120 --> 02:49:16,399 landmark 3795 02:49:16,399 --> 02:49:21,120 Commission meets on in here the third meet the third Monday 3796 02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:21,639 I don't believe 3797 02:49:21,639 --> 02:49:24,209 there's any conflict based on what I could find at this 3798 02:49:24,209 --> 02:49:25,520 moment and the fourth 3799 02:49:25,520 --> 02:49:27,600 Monday I don't think they meet every single month but the 3800 02:49:27,600 --> 02:49:28,280 zoning Board of 3801 02:49:28,280 --> 02:49:32,899 Adjustment meets on those fourth Monday so I think those 3802 02:49:32,899 --> 02:49:34,479 are more ad hoc but 3803 02:49:34,479 --> 02:49:37,379 they may have a more of a something schedule on a periodic 3804 02:49:37,379 --> 02:49:38,479 basis but just to 3805 02:49:38,479 --> 02:49:41,450 make you aware of just a little bit of the conflicts that 3806 02:49:41,450 --> 02:49:42,959 may occur doing a 3807 02:49:42,959 --> 02:49:46,840 moving it to again not dissuading you just letting you know 3808 02:49:46,840 --> 02:49:47,920 that just the 3809 02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:51,399 scheduling issues - right was there any is there any 3810 02:49:51,399 --> 02:49:53,079 problem with bringing it 3811 02:49:53,079 --> 02:49:55,280 back to where we used to have the meetings is it because we 3812 02:49:55,280 --> 02:49:55,799 don't have 3813 02:49:55,799 --> 02:49:59,520 media in there how hard would it be to include media in 3814 02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:01,559 there we didn't look at 3815 02:50:01,559 --> 02:50:06,200 that but I believe it was brought here because hey it's a 3816 02:50:06,200 --> 02:50:07,959 hall it's a visible 3817 02:50:07,959 --> 02:50:11,409 icon and you know you can easily get to again the 3818 02:50:11,409 --> 02:50:13,479 multimedia assets of it as far 3819 02:50:13,479 --> 02:50:17,379 as the connectivity and the use of the cameras and so just 3820 02:50:17,379 --> 02:50:18,239 to make it available 3821 02:50:18,239 --> 02:50:22,700 to the viewing public is why what about the downstairs room 3822 02:50:22,700 --> 02:50:23,479 there's no there's 3823 02:50:23,479 --> 02:50:29,159 no man chambers council chambers does chambers does I had 3824 02:50:29,159 --> 02:50:30,760 not not checked that 3825 02:50:30,760 --> 02:50:39,639 schedule so I get this an option I mean my opinion personal 3826 02:50:39,639 --> 02:50:41,399 opinion is I would 3827 02:50:41,399 --> 02:50:44,920 like to see us do more evening meetings yeah I don't know 3828 02:50:44,920 --> 02:50:45,680 if that's every other 3829 02:50:45,680 --> 02:50:48,860 you know once a month if we have two a month one is gonna 3830 02:50:48,860 --> 02:50:50,479 be in the evening one 3831 02:50:50,479 --> 02:50:54,000 in the morning I know we've had evening meetings in the 3832 02:50:54,000 --> 02:50:56,719 past to accommodate 3833 02:50:56,719 --> 02:51:03,479 public comment when we especially when public comment on 3834 02:51:03,479 --> 02:51:04,399 transmission line 3835 02:51:04,399 --> 02:51:08,649 locations or substation locations things like that so I 3836 02:51:08,649 --> 02:51:14,559 think it's again just 3837 02:51:14,559 --> 02:51:16,530 because it's the way we've always done it doesn't mean it's 3838 02:51:16,530 --> 02:51:18,159 the right way and so 3839 02:51:18,159 --> 02:51:22,879 I like the idea of an evening meeting if we can find on a 3840 02:51:22,879 --> 02:51:24,559 regular basis would it 3841 02:51:24,559 --> 02:51:28,889 be the fourth Monday or the second Monday of every month I 3842 02:51:28,889 --> 02:51:29,799 'm all for it I 3843 02:51:29,799 --> 02:51:32,600 don't know but you said the third Monday was the one that 3844 02:51:32,600 --> 02:51:34,120 was open in here as far 3845 02:51:34,120 --> 02:51:40,540 as I can tell second and fourth Monday is our that's 3846 02:51:40,540 --> 02:51:41,360 correct and we have no 3847 02:51:41,360 --> 02:51:50,120 bumping rights or anything yeah what about does any group 3848 02:51:50,120 --> 02:51:51,200 or I mean you said 3849 02:51:51,200 --> 02:51:55,290 you don't know so that you didn't check into that but just 3850 02:51:55,290 --> 02:51:57,680 offhand if there's no 3851 02:51:57,680 --> 02:52:03,290 group that meets in council chambers on Monday evenings at 3852 02:52:03,290 --> 02:52:05,040 all there then maybe 3853 02:52:05,040 --> 02:52:10,290 just consistently Monday evenings in council chambers as a 3854 02:52:10,290 --> 02:52:11,920 I'm just throwing 3855 02:52:11,920 --> 02:52:16,399 that out there yeah and when we're talking about evening 3856 02:52:16,399 --> 02:52:16,879 are we talking 3857 02:52:16,879 --> 02:52:21,209 about five o'clock or are we talking about four o'clock or 3858 02:52:21,209 --> 02:52:22,680 three o'clock what 3859 02:52:22,680 --> 02:52:29,399 do we it came out of part of the interviewing process where 3860 02:52:29,399 --> 02:52:30,159 you know we 3861 02:52:30,159 --> 02:52:36,100 the community needs to have an opportunity yeah yeah I just 3862 02:52:36,100 --> 02:52:36,559 wanted more 3863 02:52:36,559 --> 02:52:41,969 often a little bit better well just a great for a good 3864 02:52:41,969 --> 02:52:42,920 historic landmark 3865 02:52:42,920 --> 02:52:46,780 committee I think they start their agendas at 5 traffic 3866 02:52:46,780 --> 02:52:48,079 safety is at 530 3867 02:52:48,079 --> 02:52:53,389 530 traffic safety so council meeting starts at 630 on 3868 02:52:53,389 --> 02:52:54,319 Tuesday nights but 3869 02:52:54,319 --> 02:52:56,969 they have work sessions start a lot earlier than that on 3870 02:52:56,969 --> 02:52:57,920 those Tuesdays so 3871 02:52:57,920 --> 02:53:01,889 it's really more up to the up to the board's call and your 3872 02:53:01,889 --> 02:53:03,639 availability as to 3873 02:53:03,639 --> 02:53:09,049 when you'd like to do those yeah yeah I would advocate for 3874 02:53:09,049 --> 02:53:11,319 a time closer to you 3875 02:53:11,319 --> 02:53:15,870 know 630 so just so that we know working people I mean 3876 02:53:15,870 --> 02:53:16,760 everybody has different 3877 02:53:16,760 --> 02:53:20,180 hours some people work nights but you know so that most 3878 02:53:20,180 --> 02:53:21,719 working people can you 3879 02:53:21,719 --> 02:53:26,329 have a commute I shouldn't even say most some more than 3880 02:53:26,329 --> 02:53:28,200 otherwise would be able 3881 02:53:28,200 --> 02:53:41,100 to attend 6 6 30 time frame okay I like six yeah so okay so 3882 02:53:41,100 --> 02:53:42,120 we'll look at that 3883 02:53:42,120 --> 02:53:45,379 time are you wanting to do the one in the morning one in 3884 02:53:45,379 --> 02:53:46,719 the evening or all in 3885 02:53:46,719 --> 02:53:50,750 the evenings or which I like alternating I think it gives 3886 02:53:50,750 --> 02:53:52,319 more more opportunity 3887 02:53:52,319 --> 02:53:56,399 for people to see it live or come here you know in person 3888 02:53:56,399 --> 02:53:58,840 if you alternate I 3889 02:53:58,840 --> 02:54:03,090 personally don't want to see any change at all but I'll go 3890 02:54:03,090 --> 02:54:03,920 with the group on 3891 02:54:03,920 --> 02:54:09,889 this you know and also they might not want to meet me at 6 3892 02:54:09,889 --> 02:54:10,639 o'clock 3893 02:54:15,079 --> 02:54:20,360 of when we do have an anticipated public comment items that 3894 02:54:20,360 --> 02:54:21,680 it can be scheduled 3895 02:54:21,680 --> 02:54:26,739 specifically in the evening because we have had public 3896 02:54:26,739 --> 02:54:29,319 comment items at 9 o'clock 3897 02:54:29,319 --> 02:54:35,110 on Monday and we don't get a lot of public comment so so we 3898 02:54:35,110 --> 02:54:37,159 'll look at 3899 02:54:37,159 --> 02:54:41,120 having again that you meet on the second and fourth Mondays 3900 02:54:41,120 --> 02:54:43,440 so again just trying 3901 02:54:43,440 --> 02:54:46,780 to narrow down this focus here so we know what to do would 3902 02:54:46,780 --> 02:54:47,639 it be safe to say 3903 02:54:47,639 --> 02:54:50,440 that we'll do the first meeting of the month in the morning 3904 02:54:50,440 --> 02:54:51,299 and the second 3905 02:54:51,299 --> 02:54:54,840 meeting of the month in the evening yeah is that okay yeah 3906 02:54:54,840 --> 02:54:55,760 okay and then we'll 3907 02:54:55,760 --> 02:54:58,799 look at see what's available whether it's here I know there 3908 02:54:58,799 --> 02:54:59,479 's conflicts 3909 02:54:59,479 --> 02:55:02,020 already but we'll see what's available here if this is not 3910 02:55:02,020 --> 02:55:03,200 available at all then 3911 02:55:03,200 --> 02:55:07,340 then we'll look at the chamber council chambers for the 3912 02:55:07,340 --> 02:55:09,639 evening meeting on that 3913 02:55:09,639 --> 02:55:14,040 second sure yes sir and then have the meetings here in the 3914 02:55:14,040 --> 02:55:14,639 morning is that 3915 02:55:14,639 --> 02:55:27,860 okay yes yeah anything else on this item I guess I'm a 3916 02:55:27,860 --> 02:55:29,079 little concerned about the 3917 02:55:29,079 --> 02:55:32,110 impact on staff who already spent a lot of time up here in 3918 02:55:32,110 --> 02:55:33,319 the evenings and the 3919 02:55:33,319 --> 02:55:39,469 cost of possibly adding another business meeting to that 3920 02:55:39,469 --> 02:55:40,799 has been a discussion 3921 02:55:40,799 --> 02:55:46,090 internally but I think we can work around that certainly 3922 02:55:46,090 --> 02:55:47,760 the working through on 3923 02:55:47,760 --> 02:55:50,659 the video side of it just the actual recording of it there 3924 02:55:50,659 --> 02:55:51,559 is a that's just 3925 02:55:51,559 --> 02:55:53,920 another meeting added to that staff and then we had the 3926 02:55:53,920 --> 02:55:54,840 recording secretary 3927 02:55:54,840 --> 02:55:57,360 component so there may need to be some adjustments 3928 02:55:57,360 --> 02:55:58,600 internally as far as how 3929 02:55:58,600 --> 02:56:02,590 that's done and some assignments or or how it's done or who 3930 02:56:02,590 --> 02:56:04,360 is done by so so 3931 02:56:04,360 --> 02:56:07,780 we'll have some conversations internally kind of try to try 3932 02:56:07,780 --> 02:56:09,559 to make sure that no 3933 02:56:09,559 --> 02:56:13,010 single person or single persons are are overburdened 3934 02:56:13,010 --> 02:56:15,000 because that is that can be 3935 02:56:15,000 --> 02:56:17,280 quite burdensome especially if the same person is doing 3936 02:56:17,280 --> 02:56:18,680 multiple committee 3937 02:56:18,680 --> 02:56:20,659 meetings because there's they're really a part of that 3938 02:56:20,659 --> 02:56:22,280 recording secretary or the 3939 02:56:22,280 --> 02:56:27,889 as far as the videography and I don't want to look at Kim 3940 02:56:27,889 --> 02:56:28,840 because we'll work 3941 02:56:28,840 --> 02:56:32,290 through that and make sure that that not one person is over 3942 02:56:32,290 --> 02:56:33,520 burdened. 3943 02:56:33,520 --> 02:56:39,399 You're right. You're in a direct line of sight. You know 3944 02:56:39,399 --> 02:56:41,319 Charlie if you have more things on consent 3945 02:56:41,319 --> 02:56:49,239 agenda you don't need staff here. Anything else? Thank you. 3946 02:56:52,399 --> 02:56:54,399 Okay. 3947 02:56:56,719 --> 02:57:01,129 And actually there's no action item coming out of the 3948 02:57:01,129 --> 02:57:03,799 closed meeting so if 3949 02:57:03,799 --> 02:57:07,239 we can move that to the end of this meeting go through our 3950 02:57:07,239 --> 02:57:08,159 regular agenda at 3951 02:57:08,159 --> 02:57:13,180 this time so that anyone who does not need to be here for 3952 02:57:13,180 --> 02:57:15,040 the closed meeting 3953 02:57:15,040 --> 02:57:21,190 can leave after that so all right so we'll open the regular 3954 02:57:21,190 --> 02:57:23,360 meeting now at 3955 02:57:23,360 --> 02:57:31,440 1159 and first item items for individual consideration 3956 02:57:31,440 --> 02:57:33,399 first item A which is 3957 02:57:33,399 --> 02:57:36,840 consider approval of the Public Utility Board meeting 3958 02:57:36,840 --> 02:57:38,440 minutes of October 23rd 3959 02:57:38,440 --> 02:57:47,239 2017. Are there any comments questions changes additions 3960 02:57:47,239 --> 02:57:50,719 subtractions nothing 3961 02:57:50,719 --> 02:57:56,440 hearing none those minutes then will be approved as 3962 02:57:56,440 --> 02:58:00,280 submitted. Item B is to 3963 02:58:00,280 --> 02:58:03,719 receive a report hold a discussion and provide staff with 3964 02:58:03,719 --> 02:58:04,239 direction. We need to 3965 02:58:04,239 --> 02:58:08,569 make a motion sorry. We need to make a motion to approve. 3966 02:58:08,569 --> 02:58:09,360 We have it in the 3967 02:58:09,360 --> 02:58:11,989 past. I don't have to have motions and seconds and all that 3968 02:58:11,989 --> 02:58:13,920 . Okay. As long as there's no 3969 02:58:13,920 --> 02:58:20,040 changes. Okay. Yeah correct me if I'm wrong. 3970 02:58:24,040 --> 02:58:31,040 It's kind of approval by acclamation. Item B is to receive 3971 02:58:31,040 --> 02:58:32,319 a report hold a discussion 3972 02:58:32,319 --> 02:58:35,760 and provide staff with direction concerning the approval of 3973 02:58:35,760 --> 02:58:36,280 a public 3974 02:58:36,280 --> 02:58:40,190 works contract for the Cooper Creek interceptor 1 & 2 3975 02:58:40,190 --> 02:58:42,000 project consisting of 3976 02:58:42,000 --> 02:58:46,110 the replacement of approximately 7,000 feet of 21 inch and 3977 02:58:46,110 --> 02:58:47,159 24 inch clay 3978 02:58:47,159 --> 02:58:52,569 sanitary sewer with new 84 inch fiberglass reinforced pipe 3979 02:58:52,569 --> 02:58:53,360 and 30 inch 3980 02:58:53,360 --> 02:58:59,120 polymerized vinyl chloride sanitary sewer along Cooper 3981 02:58:59,120 --> 02:58:59,760 Creek. 3982 02:59:03,079 --> 02:59:06,549 All right good morning board. Good morning. I'm Todd Estes. 3983 02:59:06,549 --> 02:59:10,200 I'm the City Engineers. My first 3984 02:59:10,200 --> 02:59:13,649 time to be here in front of you so I'm a little excited. 3985 02:59:13,649 --> 02:59:15,079 Good to see you all this 3986 02:59:15,079 --> 02:59:20,889 morning. Cooper Creek interceptor 2. This is phases 1 & 2. 3987 02:59:20,889 --> 02:59:22,040 Phase 3 was 3988 02:59:22,040 --> 02:59:24,399 actually done five or six years ago and it sounds a little 3989 02:59:24,399 --> 02:59:25,079 odd that we're 3990 02:59:25,079 --> 02:59:28,579 working backwards in the sequence here but for whatever 3991 02:59:28,579 --> 02:59:29,840 reason that was the 3992 02:59:29,840 --> 02:59:33,360 process and progress through the design of this project. 3993 02:59:33,360 --> 02:59:35,120 Phase 1 & Phase 2 3994 02:59:35,120 --> 02:59:39,450 closes out the long-term needs what we need for this Cooper 3995 02:59:39,450 --> 02:59:41,360 Creek interceptor. 3996 02:59:41,360 --> 02:59:47,079 We have before you for consideration a contract with Condi 3997 02:59:47,079 --> 02:59:47,840 Construction who was 3998 02:59:47,840 --> 02:59:51,440 the low bidder lowest qualified bidder and responsive bid 3999 02:59:51,440 --> 02:59:52,959 der at 3.1 million 4000 02:59:52,959 --> 02:59:57,700 dollars. You can see here on the map that roughly the 4001 02:59:57,700 --> 02:59:59,079 limits of phase 1 & 2 4002 02:59:59,079 --> 03:00:02,659 extends from Old North all the way on the top of the screen 4003 03:00:02,659 --> 03:00:04,319 there under loop 4004 03:00:04,319 --> 03:00:07,620 288 down under University Drive and almost over to Promont 4005 03:00:07,620 --> 03:00:08,760 ous Parkway. There's 4006 03:00:08,760 --> 03:00:11,889 a couple of different pipe sizes in this and we'll get into 4007 03:00:11,889 --> 03:00:13,079 why that's important 4008 03:00:13,079 --> 03:00:20,000 here shortly. Existing interceptor is undersized to meet 4009 03:00:20,000 --> 03:00:20,959 today's demand and 4010 03:00:20,959 --> 03:00:24,000 for the future demand. So what this actually does is it 4011 03:00:24,000 --> 03:00:24,799 increases the 4012 03:00:24,799 --> 03:00:28,530 capacity of what we can provide for the future. It's also 4013 03:00:28,530 --> 03:00:29,479 replacing 50 year old 4014 03:00:29,479 --> 03:00:32,569 infrastructure with infrastructure that should last us from 4015 03:00:32,569 --> 03:00:33,319 now and into the 4016 03:00:33,319 --> 03:00:36,870 future. This project will provide the capacity for the 4017 03:00:36,870 --> 03:00:37,879 ultimate development of 4018 03:00:37,879 --> 03:00:41,440 this entire service area so as the entire area starts to 4019 03:00:41,440 --> 03:00:42,719 develop more people 4020 03:00:42,719 --> 03:00:46,569 come in more business come in we do have the capacity here 4021 03:00:46,569 --> 03:00:50,239 to handle it. I love 4022 03:00:50,239 --> 03:00:54,100 this mouse. Just briefly we had eight respondents you'll 4023 03:00:54,100 --> 03:00:55,399 notice seven on the 4024 03:00:55,399 --> 03:00:58,479 list here these are the seven of the eight that are 4025 03:00:58,479 --> 03:00:59,479 considered responsive 4026 03:00:59,479 --> 03:01:03,879 bidders. What that means is is they actually put in all the 4027 03:01:03,879 --> 03:01:04,559 requirements 4028 03:01:04,559 --> 03:01:08,209 that we asked for as part of the construction package. When 4029 03:01:08,209 --> 03:01:09,079 we send out to 4030 03:01:09,079 --> 03:01:12,110 bid we told them here are the qualifications that you need 4031 03:01:12,110 --> 03:01:12,799 to have to 4032 03:01:12,799 --> 03:01:15,969 be able to do a project with pipe of this size. We've got 4033 03:01:15,969 --> 03:01:17,120 30 inch pipe for the 4034 03:01:17,120 --> 03:01:20,010 majority of it then we go to an 84 inch pipe. So it's a 4035 03:01:20,010 --> 03:01:20,879 very large pipe 4036 03:01:20,879 --> 03:01:28,879 especially for sanitary sewer line. The apparent low bidder 4037 03:01:28,879 --> 03:01:30,120 that is the one that 4038 03:01:30,120 --> 03:01:33,030 you don't see on the list that person did not meet all the 4039 03:01:33,030 --> 03:01:34,040 qualifications at 4040 03:01:34,040 --> 03:01:36,659 least they didn't include in the submittal package and then 4041 03:01:36,659 --> 03:01:37,159 as we went 4042 03:01:37,159 --> 03:01:39,950 through and we talked to the bidder purchasing department 4043 03:01:39,950 --> 03:01:40,920 followed up with 4044 03:01:40,920 --> 03:01:43,229 them said want to make sure that we just didn't miss 4045 03:01:43,229 --> 03:01:44,399 something with this because 4046 03:01:44,399 --> 03:01:47,149 you are the apparent low bidder they still did not supply 4047 03:01:47,149 --> 03:01:47,840 sufficient 4048 03:01:47,840 --> 03:01:52,520 experience to show us they met the qualifications. 4049 03:01:54,120 --> 03:01:57,069 Condi construction company then by default became the next 4050 03:01:57,069 --> 03:01:58,239 lowest bidder. 4051 03:01:58,239 --> 03:02:02,840 Their increase in cost was about $150,000 over what the 4052 03:02:02,840 --> 03:02:04,120 original apparent low 4053 03:02:04,120 --> 03:02:08,299 bidder was. Still all of this was considerably lower than 4054 03:02:08,299 --> 03:02:08,840 what the 4055 03:02:08,840 --> 03:02:11,159 original engineers estimate for this project was was just 4056 03:02:11,159 --> 03:02:11,940 approaching four 4057 03:02:11,940 --> 03:02:16,629 million dollars so we're a good step below that. Our 4058 03:02:16,629 --> 03:02:18,760 intended construction 4059 03:02:18,760 --> 03:02:22,409 start is January of 2018 we expect it to go longer than no 4060 03:02:22,409 --> 03:02:23,639 longer than about nine 4061 03:02:23,639 --> 03:02:27,180 months. A lot of this is primarily through open field so we 4062 03:02:27,180 --> 03:02:27,840 don't have a 4063 03:02:27,840 --> 03:02:32,760 lot of constraints and restrictions that will slow us down. 4064 03:02:32,760 --> 03:02:34,760 In short keeping this 4065 03:02:34,760 --> 03:02:37,459 brief I'll be glad to answer any questions but staff does 4066 03:02:37,459 --> 03:02:38,040 recommend you 4067 03:02:38,040 --> 03:02:41,520 approve the contract condi construction for 3.1 million 4068 03:02:41,520 --> 03:02:43,799 dollars. Any questions? 4069 03:02:43,799 --> 03:02:49,959 Questions? I want to hear more about the 84 inch pipe. In 4070 03:02:49,959 --> 03:02:53,399 what vein sir? Well it's quite an 4071 03:02:53,399 --> 03:02:56,840 increase from what's there now. Seven times existing 4072 03:02:56,840 --> 03:02:57,540 capacity and you're 4073 03:02:57,540 --> 03:03:00,959 connecting a 30 inch to it? Yes sir I said there's a 4074 03:03:00,959 --> 03:03:01,840 variety of connections 4075 03:03:01,840 --> 03:03:05,260 but we do have both PS Aurora and Jim Wilder the design 4076 03:03:05,260 --> 03:03:06,040 engineer here to 4077 03:03:06,040 --> 03:03:12,909 answer the technical questions. I'm Jim Wilder I'm with the 4078 03:03:12,909 --> 03:03:14,600 engineering 4079 03:03:14,600 --> 03:03:19,149 department. The reason we have the 84 inch pipe is we're 4080 03:03:19,149 --> 03:03:20,120 actually using it for 4081 03:03:20,120 --> 03:03:23,790 storage. The 84 inch pipe gives us about a half a million 4082 03:03:23,790 --> 03:03:25,799 gallons worth of inline 4083 03:03:25,799 --> 03:03:31,409 storage to allow us to store the peak flow during the large 4084 03:03:31,409 --> 03:03:32,760 rain events and 4085 03:03:32,760 --> 03:03:36,299 that way we don't actually have to build additional 4086 03:03:36,299 --> 03:03:38,239 infrastructure at the Cooper 4087 03:03:38,239 --> 03:03:42,409 Creek lift station and downstream. We figured that it ended 4088 03:03:42,409 --> 03:03:43,600 up probably being 4089 03:03:43,600 --> 03:03:47,639 about a $800,000 savings to the city to do it that way as 4090 03:03:47,639 --> 03:03:48,600 opposed to building 4091 03:03:48,600 --> 03:03:53,260 additional infrastructure downstream. Thank you. And this 4092 03:03:53,260 --> 03:03:54,840 as far as the use of 4093 03:03:54,840 --> 03:04:02,100 the storage area is this the same drainage system where all 4094 03:04:02,100 --> 03:04:02,600 the flooding 4095 03:04:02,600 --> 03:04:08,750 was back in the big rain when they're well 2007 I think it 4096 03:04:08,750 --> 03:04:12,520 was. This is this is 4097 03:04:12,520 --> 03:04:15,319 what backed into the neighborhoods because it got it couldn 4098 03:04:15,319 --> 03:04:16,000 't handle the 4099 03:04:16,000 --> 03:04:22,489 flow. Yes the the Cooper Creek basin flooded of course the 4100 03:04:22,489 --> 03:04:23,639 concrete basin 4101 03:04:23,639 --> 03:04:28,040 also flooded I mean they all flooded but yes there were 4102 03:04:28,040 --> 03:04:30,000 pretty severe flooding 4103 03:04:30,000 --> 03:04:35,069 behind the area that's just north of University and the 4104 03:04:35,069 --> 03:04:37,040 subdivision west of 4105 03:04:37,040 --> 03:04:42,559 Old North or east of Old North. Okay thank you. 4106 03:04:43,879 --> 03:04:47,559 Just go back to the numbers. Yes ma'am. What was Atkins 4107 03:04:47,559 --> 03:04:50,879 thinking? They didn't want 4108 03:04:50,879 --> 03:04:54,899 the job huh? Must be busy. I mean I like it when they're it 4109 03:04:54,899 --> 03:04:55,959 's fairly compressed 4110 03:04:55,959 --> 03:04:59,559 that means you had a you know yes good bids. It's very 4111 03:04:59,559 --> 03:05:00,680 compressed throughout 4112 03:05:00,680 --> 03:05:03,920 the top six there. Yeah Atkins was a little bit outside 4113 03:05:03,920 --> 03:05:06,840 there yes ma'am. Okay. 4114 03:05:06,840 --> 03:05:13,469 Any questions? Questions? Comments? No. This is an action 4115 03:05:13,469 --> 03:05:14,639 item so we need a motion on 4116 03:05:14,639 --> 03:05:19,250 this item. I recommend approval. Second. We have a motion 4117 03:05:19,250 --> 03:05:21,000 and a second to approve. 4118 03:05:21,000 --> 03:05:27,719 Further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? 4119 03:05:27,719 --> 03:05:30,399 Same sign? Motion passes. 4120 03:05:30,399 --> 03:05:34,659 Item C is to receive report, hold discussion, and provide 4121 03:05:34,659 --> 03:05:36,000 staff with direction 4122 03:05:36,000 --> 03:05:39,420 concerning the approval of professional services agreement 4123 03:05:39,420 --> 03:05:40,280 for engineering 4124 03:05:40,280 --> 03:05:43,729 design services related to the design bid phase and 4125 03:05:43,729 --> 03:05:45,440 construction services for 4126 03:05:45,440 --> 03:05:49,399 the Lake Lulz water treatment plant phase two 4127 03:05:49,399 --> 03:05:52,959 rehabilitation project. Tim 4128 03:05:52,959 --> 03:05:59,360 Fisher. Good afternoon. I'll go over this item. 4129 03:06:04,479 --> 03:06:07,469 My intent was to have this presentation in the backup so I 4130 03:06:07,469 --> 03:06:09,399 'm sorry but we'll go 4131 03:06:09,399 --> 03:06:12,040 over real quick. 4132 03:06:16,440 --> 03:06:19,889 Make sure okay. Believe it or not this project actually 4133 03:06:19,889 --> 03:06:22,840 started a little over 4134 03:06:22,840 --> 03:06:26,639 a decade ago when we did our preliminary design evaluation 4135 03:06:26,639 --> 03:06:28,280 for the Lake Louisville 4136 03:06:28,280 --> 03:06:32,670 plant. We hired Malcolm Perney at that time to look over 4137 03:06:32,670 --> 03:06:34,479 all the priorities for 4138 03:06:34,479 --> 03:06:34,479 doing work at the plant. We did the majority of those with 4139 03:06:34,479 --> 03:06:42,120 our 2007 upgrade. 4140 03:06:42,120 --> 03:06:46,069 That project actually took a fair amount of time to get 4141 03:06:46,069 --> 03:06:49,040 designed, get built. I was 4142 03:06:49,040 --> 03:06:52,489 about 32 million dollars worth of improvements. Very 4143 03:06:52,489 --> 03:06:53,799 focused on the 4144 03:06:53,799 --> 03:06:58,639 process, upgrading the process, and then also modernizing 4145 03:06:58,639 --> 03:07:02,799 the equipment. So this 4146 03:07:02,799 --> 03:07:07,129 goes over a listing of all the improvements that were done 4147 03:07:07,129 --> 03:07:07,760 a part of 4148 03:07:07,760 --> 03:07:14,059 that project. That one was completed about 2014. So we've 4149 03:07:14,059 --> 03:07:15,440 had an operational now 4150 03:07:15,440 --> 03:07:19,840 for a few years. Major work on almost all the treatment 4151 03:07:19,840 --> 03:07:22,840 units and processes. These 4152 03:07:22,840 --> 03:07:26,799 are some of the examples of some of the work that was done. 4153 03:07:26,799 --> 03:07:28,479 The one in the upper 4154 03:07:28,479 --> 03:07:31,930 left is the ozone contactor. So adding ozone to the 4155 03:07:31,930 --> 03:07:33,680 treatment process for 4156 03:07:33,680 --> 03:07:37,200 consistency of treatment and regulatory compliance was a 4157 03:07:37,200 --> 03:07:38,399 big component of that 4158 03:07:38,399 --> 03:07:48,940 project. Along with revamping the flocculation sediment 4159 03:07:48,940 --> 03:07:50,559 ation and filters. So 4160 03:07:50,559 --> 03:07:54,290 a lot of heavy lifting and upgrading the plant occurred in 4161 03:07:54,290 --> 03:07:57,479 that. Phase two upgrades 4162 03:07:57,479 --> 03:08:03,129 was budgeted not too long ago. We basically wanted to pick 4163 03:08:03,129 --> 03:08:04,360 up where the 4164 03:08:04,360 --> 03:08:08,520 other project left off. We had actually gone 23 years at 4165 03:08:08,520 --> 03:08:09,920 the old facility before 4166 03:08:09,920 --> 03:08:13,829 we did major capitalization. And it's a lengthy process to 4167 03:08:13,829 --> 03:08:14,760 go through the 4168 03:08:14,760 --> 03:08:18,420 planning and the implementation of that. One of the key 4169 03:08:18,420 --> 03:08:19,920 areas that didn't make 4170 03:08:19,920 --> 03:08:24,319 the cut the last go-around was the motor control center. 4171 03:08:24,319 --> 03:08:26,079 Our intent was to do that. 4172 03:08:26,079 --> 03:08:31,030 But we ran into some cost management complications and we 4173 03:08:31,030 --> 03:08:32,719 really needed to put 4174 03:08:32,719 --> 03:08:36,270 that in an exterior building. And then that became 4175 03:08:36,270 --> 03:08:37,920 something that we didn't feel 4176 03:08:37,920 --> 03:08:40,540 we could tackle on the original budget. So we're trying to 4177 03:08:40,540 --> 03:08:41,360 do that now in the 4178 03:08:41,360 --> 03:08:46,799 phase two upgrade. We also want to deal with the server 4179 03:08:46,799 --> 03:08:48,159 that we have for our 4180 03:08:48,159 --> 03:08:52,000 SCADA system. Our SCADA system server has been in a closet 4181 03:08:52,000 --> 03:08:53,520 from day one. We're 4182 03:08:53,520 --> 03:08:57,120 going to try to move that upstairs to what is now a 4183 03:08:57,120 --> 03:08:59,200 training room and then try 4184 03:08:59,200 --> 03:09:02,149 to provide that type of space in the new electrical 4185 03:09:02,149 --> 03:09:03,440 building with the motor 4186 03:09:03,440 --> 03:09:07,159 control center. So that's a big piece of it. We have a 4187 03:09:07,159 --> 03:09:08,559 variety of other things 4188 03:09:08,559 --> 03:09:12,520 relating to flow meters and polymer feed equipment and some 4189 03:09:12,520 --> 03:09:13,280 raw water pump 4190 03:09:13,280 --> 03:09:18,719 station improvements. That's a picture of the original 4191 03:09:18,719 --> 03:09:21,079 motor control center. It was 4192 03:09:21,079 --> 03:09:26,969 actually revamped by staff in the mid 90s. So we've been 4193 03:09:26,969 --> 03:09:28,200 able to keep that 4194 03:09:28,200 --> 03:09:31,770 motor control center functioning through a major rebuild, 4195 03:09:31,770 --> 03:09:33,319 but that was quite some 4196 03:09:33,319 --> 03:09:35,950 time ago as well. So it's time to kind of replace that 4197 03:09:35,950 --> 03:09:37,879 equipment. It's pushing 60 4198 03:09:37,879 --> 03:09:47,579 years old. Along with this project we had a zebra mussel 4199 03:09:47,579 --> 03:09:49,639 infestation in both lakes 4200 03:09:49,639 --> 03:09:53,430 that captured a lot of our attention initially. We went 4201 03:09:53,430 --> 03:09:54,399 through a zebra 4202 03:09:54,399 --> 03:09:58,729 control management preliminary design study that did 4203 03:09:58,729 --> 03:10:00,600 involve Arcadis. We are 4204 03:10:00,600 --> 03:10:04,090 now moving into the capital stages of that. We felt that 4205 03:10:04,090 --> 03:10:05,479 this was similar work 4206 03:10:05,479 --> 03:10:09,389 and so we incorporated it into, we've actually got three 4207 03:10:09,389 --> 03:10:11,280 projects, zebra mussel 4208 03:10:11,280 --> 03:10:15,319 control at both facilities, Ray Robertson Lake Louisville 4209 03:10:15,319 --> 03:10:16,680 on the raw water side 4210 03:10:16,680 --> 03:10:23,120 plus the phase two upgrades at the Louisville plant. I 4211 03:10:23,120 --> 03:10:25,360 think this picture 4212 03:10:25,360 --> 03:10:29,840 shows some of our early discovery at the low spot. That's 4213 03:10:29,840 --> 03:10:31,360 actually not a zebra 4214 03:10:31,360 --> 03:10:35,370 mussel infestation. That's where the zebra mussel shells 4215 03:10:35,370 --> 03:10:37,760 end up and accumulate. 4216 03:10:37,760 --> 03:10:43,000 We've also showing them within our raw water, or excuse me, 4217 03:10:43,000 --> 03:10:44,319 our pre-ozone 4218 03:10:44,319 --> 03:10:47,770 contact rep at Ray Robertson. So some of that debris gets 4219 03:10:47,770 --> 03:10:49,000 moved in there and so 4220 03:10:49,000 --> 03:10:52,440 those become things that we have to periodically physically 4221 03:10:52,440 --> 03:10:53,079 remove and what 4222 03:10:53,079 --> 03:10:56,520 we're trying to do is use chemical treatment processes to 4223 03:10:56,520 --> 03:10:57,120 prevent that 4224 03:10:57,120 --> 03:11:02,409 infestation to begin with. So this is a summary of where we 4225 03:11:02,409 --> 03:11:03,879 were from a budget 4226 03:11:03,879 --> 03:11:08,799 standpoint as far as the ten million dollars for the Louis 4227 03:11:08,799 --> 03:11:09,440 ville water 4228 03:11:09,440 --> 03:11:13,629 treatment plant plus the zebra mussel control measures. So 4229 03:11:13,629 --> 03:11:15,239 we had about 1.7 4230 03:11:15,239 --> 03:11:20,469 million budgeted for engineering and we had about a little 4231 03:11:20,469 --> 03:11:22,239 shy of 16 million of 4232 03:11:22,239 --> 03:11:28,600 capital. We went through an RFQ process looking at nine 4233 03:11:28,600 --> 03:11:31,079 engineering firms. We 4234 03:11:31,079 --> 03:11:34,520 actually started off with an SOQ which is an acronym for 4235 03:11:34,520 --> 03:11:35,000 statement of 4236 03:11:35,000 --> 03:11:38,440 qualifications who are out there looking for who are the 4237 03:11:38,440 --> 03:11:39,719 engineering firms that 4238 03:11:39,719 --> 03:11:45,329 we want to solicit proposals from. We basically had four 4239 03:11:45,329 --> 03:11:47,079 responses from that 4240 03:11:47,079 --> 03:11:51,500 statement of qualifications. We issued an RFQ and got 4241 03:11:51,500 --> 03:11:53,600 responses from three. A 4242 03:11:53,600 --> 03:11:56,700 couple of them did partner, Fries and Nichols partnered 4243 03:11:56,700 --> 03:11:57,959 with Arcadis and they 4244 03:11:57,959 --> 03:12:01,659 were the firm that we selected. Fries and Nichols designed 4245 03:12:01,659 --> 03:12:03,280 our Lake Ray Roberts 4246 03:12:03,280 --> 03:12:09,610 plant, had some design prior at the Louisville plant and 4247 03:12:09,610 --> 03:12:11,319 then Arcadis was 4248 03:12:11,319 --> 03:12:15,969 brought in as their sub-consultant to help with the zebra 4249 03:12:15,969 --> 03:12:19,799 mussel design. So this 4250 03:12:19,799 --> 03:12:23,639 scope includes final design, bid phase and basic 4251 03:12:23,639 --> 03:12:25,799 construction services. It 4252 03:12:25,799 --> 03:12:29,459 doesn't carry full resident rep through construction. At 4253 03:12:29,459 --> 03:12:30,479 this point we're not 4254 03:12:30,479 --> 03:12:34,110 necessarily sure we need that level of support but it does 4255 03:12:34,110 --> 03:12:35,399 carry construction 4256 03:12:35,399 --> 03:12:40,420 phase services through the approximate 18 month schedule 4257 03:12:40,420 --> 03:12:43,479 for the project. This 4258 03:12:43,479 --> 03:12:47,809 is where we started. We had a fee of about just shy of 2 4259 03:12:47,809 --> 03:12:49,000 million. We're a 4260 03:12:49,000 --> 03:12:52,450 little over budget on that so we went through a negotiation 4261 03:12:52,450 --> 03:12:54,239 process. We started 4262 03:12:54,239 --> 03:12:58,100 zooming in on the construction and the construction budget 4263 03:12:58,100 --> 03:12:58,959 so we had some 4264 03:12:58,959 --> 03:13:02,110 issues there that we had to trim some of the scope items 4265 03:13:02,110 --> 03:13:02,680 out of the 4266 03:13:02,680 --> 03:13:07,959 construction budget to get it down to budget level and then 4267 03:13:07,959 --> 03:13:09,559 this is where we 4268 03:13:09,559 --> 03:13:14,600 landed on the engineering fees. So we had just a little shy 4269 03:13:14,600 --> 03:13:16,120 of about four hundred 4270 03:13:16,120 --> 03:13:19,020 and seventy thousand dollars worth of fee negotiation 4271 03:13:19,020 --> 03:13:20,559 through this process. We got 4272 03:13:20,559 --> 03:13:24,360 this added level that we feel is more consistent with our 4273 03:13:24,360 --> 03:13:25,520 budget and what we 4274 03:13:25,520 --> 03:13:31,959 think is a reasonable cost of pay. This was the engineers 4275 03:13:31,959 --> 03:13:35,120 estimate that came up 4276 03:13:35,120 --> 03:13:39,719 just 114 million so we're within budget on the engineering 4277 03:13:39,719 --> 03:13:40,959 estimate going into 4278 03:13:40,959 --> 03:13:49,709 the design and I'll just open it up to questions at this 4279 03:13:49,709 --> 03:13:50,959 point. 4280 03:13:50,959 --> 03:13:55,879 I'll go back a couple slides. Sure. Which one? Right there. 4281 03:13:55,879 --> 03:13:57,520 Okay. What is the normal 4282 03:13:57,520 --> 03:14:02,000 percentage of engineering cost to construction? It's a good 4283 03:14:02,000 --> 03:14:03,680 question. What we 4284 03:14:03,680 --> 03:14:09,440 found from our experience at the Lake Louisville phase two 4285 03:14:09,440 --> 03:14:10,299 or phase one 4286 03:14:10,299 --> 03:14:15,909 upgrade we were just a little over 11% of construction. We 4287 03:14:15,909 --> 03:14:17,639 also looked at a 4288 03:14:17,639 --> 03:14:23,479 consultant benchmarking service that primarily focuses on 4289 03:14:23,479 --> 03:14:25,319 consultants and how 4290 03:14:25,319 --> 03:14:29,250 they are seeing what the market is for fees and we found 4291 03:14:29,250 --> 03:14:30,840 similar numbers there. 4292 03:14:30,840 --> 03:14:34,760 So our experience has been about 10% until you start 4293 03:14:34,760 --> 03:14:35,920 getting into the 4294 03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:38,440 construction phase component and that's gonna bump it up. 4295 03:14:38,440 --> 03:14:41,959 Okay. Thank you. 4296 03:14:44,239 --> 03:14:50,450 What is the length of time of the contract? We have in the 4297 03:14:50,450 --> 03:14:53,479 schedule right now about 10 4298 03:14:53,479 --> 03:14:57,809 months after we execute the contract to do the design phase 4299 03:14:57,809 --> 03:14:59,639 . We have another 4300 03:14:59,639 --> 03:15:03,770 three months go through the bid process and we have 18 4301 03:15:03,770 --> 03:15:04,719 months for the 4302 03:15:04,719 --> 03:15:07,440 construction and that's the preliminary schedule that we 4303 03:15:07,440 --> 03:15:09,680 have right now. So it'll 4304 03:15:09,680 --> 03:15:16,680 be approximately a three-year process. Three years. From 4305 03:15:16,680 --> 03:15:16,680 start to finish. 4306 03:15:17,680 --> 03:15:22,840 And this is like a not to exceed contract? This is a lump 4307 03:15:22,840 --> 03:15:27,200 sum. What does that mean? 4308 03:15:27,200 --> 03:15:30,989 It means they'll produce the scope and we will pay them 4309 03:15:30,989 --> 03:15:33,440 this fee. Okay. Which is 4310 03:15:33,440 --> 03:15:38,719 fairly common. Most the consultant contracts are lump sum. 4311 03:15:39,680 --> 03:15:44,010 But still limited to? Still limited to. I mean it is what 4312 03:15:44,010 --> 03:15:46,840 it is. It's not. It is a fixed fee contract. 4313 03:15:46,840 --> 03:15:49,510 Any additional scope we would have to bring back to you? 4314 03:15:49,510 --> 03:15:50,840 Yeah well yeah because 4315 03:15:50,840 --> 03:15:54,290 we look at them where it's gonna cost so much an hour 4316 03:15:54,290 --> 03:15:55,920 sometimes and not to 4317 03:15:55,920 --> 03:15:58,370 exceed X amount but we don't know what scope of work is 4318 03:15:58,370 --> 03:15:59,760 necessarily. Most 4319 03:15:59,760 --> 03:16:05,219 consultants would prefer to work under a fixed fee lump sum 4320 03:16:05,219 --> 03:16:06,559 basis and most of our 4321 03:16:06,559 --> 03:16:11,700 contracts are lump sum particularly if you can define the 4322 03:16:11,700 --> 03:16:13,120 scope well. Yeah. 4323 03:16:15,120 --> 03:16:21,440 Okay other questions? Anybody? I'll just say I really 4324 03:16:21,440 --> 03:16:22,479 appreciated the level of 4325 03:16:22,479 --> 03:16:27,889 detail of the zebra muscle manual. I learned a lot about 4326 03:16:27,889 --> 03:16:29,559 that and 4327 03:16:29,559 --> 03:16:33,559 ended up finding it just really interesting so I appreciate 4328 03:16:33,559 --> 03:16:34,280 that level 4329 03:16:34,280 --> 03:16:39,440 of information. Tim has become a zebra muscle expert not by 4330 03:16:39,440 --> 03:16:43,159 choice. Not a necessity. 4331 03:16:43,159 --> 03:16:49,979 What we're finding is that the bloom initially tends to be 4332 03:16:49,979 --> 03:16:50,600 a little worse 4333 03:16:50,600 --> 03:16:55,920 than the ongoing but we still see that it's something that 4334 03:16:55,920 --> 03:16:56,719 we need to put in 4335 03:16:56,719 --> 03:17:00,969 systems in place so that we don't get a problem in our pipe 4336 03:17:00,969 --> 03:17:01,680 systems in 4337 03:17:01,680 --> 03:17:05,100 particular Lewisville because they're smaller diameter they 4338 03:17:05,100 --> 03:17:06,280 're longer and we 4339 03:17:06,280 --> 03:17:10,840 don't need debris accumulations in the low spots. 4340 03:17:13,000 --> 03:17:19,540 Okay then is there a motion we need a motion then on item C 4341 03:17:19,540 --> 03:17:20,200 ? 4342 03:17:20,200 --> 03:17:25,760 Move approval. Second. I have a motion and a second for 4343 03:17:25,760 --> 03:17:27,239 approval. Any further 4344 03:17:27,239 --> 03:17:34,450 discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Same 4345 03:17:34,450 --> 03:17:38,319 sign. Motion passes. Item D 4346 03:17:38,319 --> 03:17:44,469 is our ACM update. Sure real quick excuse me in your agenda 4347 03:17:44,469 --> 03:17:45,479 you have a number of 4348 03:17:45,479 --> 03:17:50,790 articles that were provided to the board I believe one was 4349 03:17:50,790 --> 03:17:52,639 asked to be added to 4350 03:17:52,639 --> 03:17:55,440 the how to kill American solar that was asked by one of the 4351 03:17:55,440 --> 03:17:56,479 board members to be 4352 03:17:56,479 --> 03:18:00,469 placed and so that is on your on your list and the link in 4353 03:18:00,469 --> 03:18:01,399 the agenda if you 4354 03:18:01,399 --> 03:18:06,239 like go through that. Also on the matrix I believe we've 4355 03:18:06,239 --> 03:18:06,799 covered just about 4356 03:18:06,799 --> 03:18:09,770 everything that's been asked on the matrix I will ask that 4357 03:18:09,770 --> 03:18:10,680 you look at item 4358 03:18:10,680 --> 03:18:14,129 number 15 it showed that we would have something for you in 4359 03:18:14,129 --> 03:18:15,600 November that 4360 03:18:15,600 --> 03:18:17,600 should be December because there's only one meeting in the 4361 03:18:17,600 --> 03:18:18,879 month of November so 4362 03:18:18,879 --> 03:18:21,170 there's probably just a mistake on staff's part as far as 4363 03:18:21,170 --> 03:18:21,920 thinking it was a 4364 03:18:21,920 --> 03:18:26,250 second meeting but we'll bring the the billing issues on on 4365 03:18:26,250 --> 03:18:28,559 your wastewater and 4366 03:18:28,559 --> 03:18:32,319 the DME bill date change into your December board meeting 4367 03:18:32,319 --> 03:18:34,200 so and then I 4368 03:18:34,200 --> 03:18:39,319 think we also added a rules of procedures item number 16 to 4369 03:18:39,319 --> 03:18:40,559 the matrix 4370 03:18:40,559 --> 03:18:46,120 for future consideration. I think at a couple meetings ago 4371 03:18:46,120 --> 03:18:47,239 I asked about the 4372 03:18:47,239 --> 03:18:50,870 Tesla solar and if what whether or not we were going to see 4373 03:18:50,870 --> 03:18:52,159 how that was going 4374 03:18:52,159 --> 03:18:59,040 to impact us I don't know if anybody's been clamoring to do 4375 03:18:59,040 --> 03:19:03,600 it but. Comments 4376 03:19:03,600 --> 03:19:11,559 about the ACM updates? Yeah I had a comment and a request 4377 03:19:11,559 --> 03:19:12,079 to better 4378 03:19:12,079 --> 03:19:15,870 reiteration of the previous request about the the Puerto 4379 03:19:15,870 --> 03:19:17,180 Rico item so I was 4380 03:19:17,180 --> 03:19:23,709 the one who asked whether there was an interest among our 4381 03:19:23,709 --> 03:19:25,520 any of our DME linemen 4382 03:19:25,520 --> 03:19:32,110 to help get the power back on in Puerto Rico and while I 4383 03:19:32,110 --> 03:19:34,520 really appreciate this 4384 03:19:34,520 --> 03:19:39,930 this information provided about you know what what might be 4385 03:19:39,930 --> 03:19:41,600 involved in that what 4386 03:19:41,600 --> 03:19:46,059 the challenges would be it looks to me and correct me if I 4387 03:19:46,059 --> 03:19:48,000 'm wrong that DME 4388 03:19:48,000 --> 03:19:52,049 linemen still have yet to be surveyed as to you know 4389 03:19:52,049 --> 03:19:53,600 whether there would be an 4390 03:19:53,600 --> 03:19:58,229 any any interest in this and so of course I do understand 4391 03:19:58,229 --> 03:20:00,239 reading this and 4392 03:20:00,239 --> 03:20:03,479 just you know for the the public it says you know there 4393 03:20:03,479 --> 03:20:04,680 there is a need for a 4394 03:20:04,680 --> 03:20:09,290 team of about 20 line workers particularly on the island of 4395 03:20:09,290 --> 03:20:09,799 St. 4396 03:20:09,799 --> 03:20:13,600 John's but some of the crews are having to stay on on 4397 03:20:13,600 --> 03:20:15,799 cruise ships and have to 4398 03:20:15,799 --> 03:20:17,809 be shuttled to and from the island so there are those 4399 03:20:17,809 --> 03:20:18,639 complications the 4400 03:20:18,639 --> 03:20:21,219 commitment time for linemen crews is typically at least a 4401 03:20:21,219 --> 03:20:22,319 30-day period and 4402 03:20:22,319 --> 03:20:25,760 could be as long as six months so I would completely 4403 03:20:25,760 --> 03:20:27,319 understand why somebody 4404 03:20:27,319 --> 03:20:30,940 didn't you know if why somebody wouldn't want to volunteer 4405 03:20:30,940 --> 03:20:32,879 for that but I could 4406 03:20:32,879 --> 03:20:36,430 also understand why somebody might think that would be a 4407 03:20:36,430 --> 03:20:37,319 really great 4408 03:20:37,319 --> 03:20:41,729 opportunity to help out have an adventure you know when one 4409 03:20:41,729 --> 03:20:42,479 person's 4410 03:20:42,479 --> 03:20:45,540 nightmare you know 30 days on a cruise ship you know with a 4411 03:20:45,540 --> 03:20:46,879 bunch of dudes you 4412 03:20:46,879 --> 03:20:50,010 know some for some people that just be great you know great 4413 03:20:50,010 --> 03:20:50,760 time and I don't 4414 03:20:50,760 --> 03:20:54,000 I don't know that they're volunteer I think they're getting 4415 03:20:54,000 --> 03:20:54,799 paid well yeah 4416 03:20:54,799 --> 03:20:58,430 yes I'm sorry yes I mean I mean voluntarily you know within 4417 03:20:58,430 --> 03:20:59,040 they're 4418 03:20:59,040 --> 03:21:03,969 getting paid voluntarily come forward to say I want you 4419 03:21:03,969 --> 03:21:05,719 know I would like to do 4420 03:21:05,719 --> 03:21:09,170 this you know so that was my kind of initial and I do 4421 03:21:09,170 --> 03:21:10,200 appreciate all this 4422 03:21:10,200 --> 03:21:12,819 information that's part of the information I wanted but I 4423 03:21:12,819 --> 03:21:13,799 also wanted 4424 03:21:13,799 --> 03:21:18,350 to know you know are there any guys who would say hey you 4425 03:21:18,350 --> 03:21:19,440 know count me in I'd 4426 03:21:19,440 --> 03:21:22,889 like to go there and help out because if so then the 4427 03:21:22,889 --> 03:21:24,520 questions about you know 4428 03:21:24,520 --> 03:21:26,930 what the challenges are you know you hear the pros and hear 4429 03:21:26,930 --> 03:21:27,559 the cons that 4430 03:21:27,559 --> 03:21:31,979 could be determined by by the linemen if we can't afford to 4431 03:21:31,979 --> 03:21:33,399 send to lose you know 4432 03:21:33,399 --> 03:21:36,399 20 people then we see how many want to go and let those go 4433 03:21:36,399 --> 03:21:37,239 that's just my 4434 03:21:37,239 --> 03:21:40,479 suggestion I think the challenge is how much it costs I 4435 03:21:40,479 --> 03:21:41,959 mean I'd say it always 4436 03:21:41,959 --> 03:21:45,639 comes down to that so we haven't done a survey as you were 4437 03:21:45,639 --> 03:21:46,600 talking about for the 4438 03:21:46,600 --> 03:21:48,829 staff but I know we would have people who would be willing 4439 03:21:48,829 --> 03:21:49,959 to go it is a paid 4440 03:21:49,959 --> 03:21:53,139 it is paid time the question would be you know how long 4441 03:21:53,139 --> 03:21:54,559 would they be there and 4442 03:21:54,559 --> 03:21:57,440 really can we have them be gone from the city for that long 4443 03:21:57,440 --> 03:21:58,479 and I think that's 4444 03:21:58,479 --> 03:22:00,770 some of the logistical challenges that we looked into and I 4445 03:22:00,770 --> 03:22:01,559 know Brent can talk 4446 03:22:01,559 --> 03:22:03,870 about that a little further if we need be but that's we 4447 03:22:03,870 --> 03:22:05,000 definitely would have 4448 03:22:05,000 --> 03:22:09,950 people who would want to serve sure they certainly want to 4449 03:22:09,950 --> 03:22:13,399 help Brian get the 4450 03:22:13,399 --> 03:22:15,659 question though I think it's important for this kind of 4451 03:22:15,659 --> 03:22:17,200 discussion this the 4452 03:22:17,200 --> 03:22:20,620 city doesn't generally basically volunteer to impose itself 4453 03:22:20,620 --> 03:22:21,319 on these type 4454 03:22:21,319 --> 03:22:24,739 I mean as I understand it FEMA FEMA's got control both 4455 03:22:24,739 --> 03:22:25,799 those processes they're 4456 03:22:25,799 --> 03:22:28,879 actually the ones inviting the utilities in coordinating 4457 03:22:28,879 --> 03:22:30,159 reimbursement payments 4458 03:22:30,159 --> 03:22:33,579 that sort of thing so a lot of time when when you've you've 4459 03:22:33,579 --> 03:22:34,479 got mutual aid 4460 03:22:34,479 --> 03:22:40,469 requests it's a very orderly purposeful request of staffing 4461 03:22:40,469 --> 03:22:41,440 and then you've got 4462 03:22:41,440 --> 03:22:44,889 to follow the all the FEMA rules who's ultimately 4463 03:22:44,889 --> 03:22:46,479 responsible for coordinating 4464 03:22:46,479 --> 03:22:49,379 that so and determining whether or not there's reimburse 4465 03:22:49,379 --> 03:22:50,680 ment potential as well 4466 03:22:50,680 --> 03:22:54,610 so in this particular case they they have taken in and of 4467 03:22:54,610 --> 03:22:55,399 course the 4468 03:22:55,399 --> 03:22:58,370 situation over there's got a little more ugly given the 4469 03:22:58,370 --> 03:22:59,639 previous contract with 4470 03:22:59,639 --> 03:23:03,120 the Montana firm but they are controlling who is coming in 4471 03:23:03,120 --> 03:23:03,719 and out of 4472 03:23:03,719 --> 03:23:06,819 there and who's going to be hitting the reimbursement for 4473 03:23:06,819 --> 03:23:07,680 that so that's 4474 03:23:07,680 --> 03:23:11,190 typically how the process works is is you don't necessarily 4475 03:23:11,190 --> 03:23:12,159 volunteer to go 4476 03:23:12,159 --> 03:23:16,000 you're basically call on and they assume certain levels of 4477 03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:17,040 responsibility and 4478 03:23:17,040 --> 03:23:21,280 liability at that point for coordinating the process so 4479 03:23:21,280 --> 03:23:22,959 yeah I do understand that 4480 03:23:22,959 --> 03:23:26,379 but thank you just a lot more complicated with this not 4481 03:23:26,379 --> 03:23:26,799 being in the 4482 03:23:26,799 --> 03:23:29,889 contiguous United States and FEMA and Army Corps of 4483 03:23:29,889 --> 03:23:31,200 Engineers and lots of 4484 03:23:31,200 --> 03:23:42,270 different agencies involved okay okay thanks Charlie I have 4485 03:23:42,270 --> 03:23:43,639 a real quick just 4486 03:23:43,639 --> 03:23:47,200 kind of a question regarding a past item here about the 4487 03:23:47,200 --> 03:23:48,280 website data that I 4488 03:23:48,280 --> 03:23:51,450 requested we talked a lot about public involvement we 4489 03:23:51,450 --> 03:23:52,799 talked a lot about where 4490 03:23:52,799 --> 03:23:55,469 we're gonna have our meeting so we can have the cameras we 4491 03:23:55,469 --> 03:23:56,360 talked about our 4492 03:23:56,360 --> 03:23:59,520 agendas and our minutes being posted and the website data 4493 03:23:59,520 --> 03:24:00,680 that was provided in 4494 03:24:00,680 --> 03:24:06,319 that memo was fairly limited it only had counts for who 4495 03:24:06,319 --> 03:24:09,239 watches the strain and 4496 03:24:09,239 --> 03:24:14,760 and I think that's a shortcoming and I don't know if if if 4497 03:24:14,760 --> 03:24:15,959 I should approach 4498 03:24:15,959 --> 03:24:19,520 the the memo author about making those and put some 4499 03:24:19,520 --> 03:24:21,399 improvements there or if 4500 03:24:21,399 --> 03:24:24,840 you guys can approach them and ask if there can be any 4501 03:24:24,840 --> 03:24:25,760 improvements I mean 4502 03:24:25,760 --> 03:24:30,600 the the every click made on a website is tracked by the web 4503 03:24:30,600 --> 03:24:32,239 server so it should 4504 03:24:32,239 --> 03:24:36,729 be not too difficult and free to generate those you know 4505 03:24:36,729 --> 03:24:38,440 those metrics we 4506 03:24:38,440 --> 03:24:40,969 can absolutely follow up to see what we can do to improve 4507 03:24:40,969 --> 03:24:41,879 the caliber of the 4508 03:24:41,879 --> 03:24:44,700 data that we're getting out the website it just be nice to 4509 03:24:44,700 --> 03:24:45,760 know you know since 4510 03:24:45,760 --> 03:24:49,200 we're putting forth effort to make things public to know 4511 03:24:49,200 --> 03:24:50,280 find out if people 4512 03:24:50,280 --> 03:24:53,700 are paying attention or not yeah we'll ask Mario to put 4513 03:24:53,700 --> 03:24:54,360 something together for 4514 03:24:54,360 --> 03:24:56,700 the next step you'd be meeting on areas that we could 4515 03:24:56,700 --> 03:24:59,959 improve in thank you okay 4516 03:25:02,239 --> 03:25:08,889 concluding items which is an opportunity to place new items 4517 03:25:08,889 --> 03:25:10,520 or items on future 4518 03:25:10,520 --> 03:25:18,090 agendas as well as the matrix added a couple things to the 4519 03:25:18,090 --> 03:25:19,520 matrix already so 4520 03:25:19,520 --> 03:25:22,959 looks I have a rules of procedure and then something that 4521 03:25:22,959 --> 03:25:23,959 was missed on the 4522 03:25:23,959 --> 03:25:31,409 Tesla solar roof panels future agenda items suggestions I 4523 03:25:31,409 --> 03:25:33,200 have one future 4524 03:25:33,200 --> 03:25:38,290 agenda item suggestion and then the other is a possible 4525 03:25:38,290 --> 03:25:39,920 discussion but also 4526 03:25:39,920 --> 03:25:43,569 possible something that staff could just research and and 4527 03:25:43,569 --> 03:25:45,280 you know add add in 4528 03:25:45,280 --> 03:25:53,000 written form to future matrix the future agenda item is has 4529 03:25:53,000 --> 03:25:54,799 to do with DME 4530 03:25:54,799 --> 03:26:02,879 substations and the substation cost this is under the old 4531 03:26:02,879 --> 03:26:05,639 management you know a 4532 03:26:05,639 --> 03:26:09,780 bunch of new substations went on online and we were told 4533 03:26:09,780 --> 03:26:11,319 what the purpose was 4534 03:26:11,319 --> 03:26:15,899 were for those substations and what the cost would be and 4535 03:26:15,899 --> 03:26:17,399 now that you know 4536 03:26:17,399 --> 03:26:19,920 there's change of management I'm thinking this would 4537 03:26:19,920 --> 03:26:20,760 probably be something 4538 03:26:20,760 --> 03:26:24,200 that probably best to wait till then the new the general 4539 03:26:24,200 --> 03:26:27,159 manager comes in I would 4540 03:26:27,159 --> 03:26:32,569 I think it could would be really productive for us to 4541 03:26:32,569 --> 03:26:34,799 revisit that under 4542 03:26:34,799 --> 03:26:38,290 the new general manager and just to see as far as what the 4543 03:26:38,290 --> 03:26:39,680 substations that have 4544 03:26:39,680 --> 03:26:46,120 yet to be built or where or where improvements haven't yet 4545 03:26:46,120 --> 03:26:47,639 occurred or and 4546 03:26:47,639 --> 03:26:51,090 especially where contracts have not yet been secured just 4547 03:26:51,090 --> 03:26:54,040 to look over what the 4548 03:26:54,040 --> 03:26:57,639 projected costs are what the process is do we really need 4549 03:26:57,639 --> 03:26:59,239 this is that you know 4550 03:26:59,239 --> 03:27:03,579 etc so just kind of a fresh look on these things that are 4551 03:27:03,579 --> 03:27:05,000 already on board 4552 03:27:05,000 --> 03:27:08,540 you know even if it turns out okay yes you know yes we 4553 03:27:08,540 --> 03:27:10,120 really did need all of 4554 03:27:10,120 --> 03:27:15,149 those just you know before we I don't know exactly how much 4555 03:27:15,149 --> 03:27:16,639 money you know 4556 03:27:16,639 --> 03:27:20,059 we've spent already on that and how much is yes to yet to 4557 03:27:20,059 --> 03:27:21,280 be spent but as far as 4558 03:27:21,280 --> 03:27:23,989 controlling cost going forward just have a fresh look on 4559 03:27:23,989 --> 03:27:24,920 that would be nice 4560 03:27:24,920 --> 03:27:30,440 because we did have like a FERC reliability study which is 4561 03:27:30,440 --> 03:27:31,559 what where 4562 03:27:31,559 --> 03:27:35,510 these things come out of so maybe that a refresh and I can 4563 03:27:35,510 --> 03:27:36,280 tell you our staff 4564 03:27:36,280 --> 03:27:40,229 Brent Heath is also just kind of been leading the charge on 4565 03:27:40,229 --> 03:27:41,280 that taking a look 4566 03:27:41,280 --> 03:27:45,399 at the this five-year CIP making sure that we have things 4567 03:27:45,399 --> 03:27:46,760 broken down into 4568 03:27:46,760 --> 03:27:49,709 mission critical to comply with FERC as well as any 4569 03:27:49,709 --> 03:27:51,399 customer service issues we're 4570 03:27:51,399 --> 03:27:55,360 having and then what may be a candidate for being put into 4571 03:27:55,360 --> 03:27:56,680 a category of future 4572 03:27:56,680 --> 03:28:01,520 planning so we're heading down that path and in your right 4573 03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:02,280 our new GM 4574 03:28:02,280 --> 03:28:05,000 basically has already stated that's one of the first places 4575 03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:05,840 he wants to start 4576 03:28:05,840 --> 03:28:09,600 taking a look at so hopefully we can get you some answers 4577 03:28:09,600 --> 03:28:10,479 in the next and when 4578 03:28:10,479 --> 03:28:17,270 is he coming he starts November 27th excellent and then the 4579 03:28:17,270 --> 03:28:18,260 other and this is 4580 03:28:18,260 --> 03:28:22,530 I'm guessing this this might be probably more of something 4581 03:28:22,530 --> 03:28:25,079 to put in the matrix 4582 03:28:25,079 --> 03:28:28,520 for a future meeting but something that's a matter of 4583 03:28:28,520 --> 03:28:29,600 public interest that 4584 03:28:29,600 --> 03:28:32,569 people in the public had come have come to me with and and 4585 03:28:32,569 --> 03:28:33,719 that's about issues 4586 03:28:33,719 --> 03:28:38,270 about water pressure I I did some you know research on this 4587 03:28:38,270 --> 03:28:40,760 on my own but but 4588 03:28:40,760 --> 03:28:46,030 you know I assured these ratepayers that that's that's that 4589 03:28:46,030 --> 03:28:47,360 staff would you know 4590 03:28:47,360 --> 03:28:50,510 likely have a specific dent in specific answer be able to 4591 03:28:50,510 --> 03:28:51,799 answer that question 4592 03:28:51,799 --> 03:28:57,719 the first was from ropes and ranch actually and I haven't 4593 03:28:57,719 --> 03:28:58,159 tested this 4594 03:28:58,159 --> 03:29:04,360 myself I don't I don't live there but I somebody it 4595 03:29:04,360 --> 03:29:06,520 contacted me as a member of 4596 03:29:06,520 --> 03:29:10,489 PB to say that they have really low water pressure at ropes 4597 03:29:10,489 --> 03:29:11,520 and ranch and 4598 03:29:11,520 --> 03:29:16,000 what's up with that so I I didn't know anything about that 4599 03:29:16,000 --> 03:29:17,520 but I assured them 4600 03:29:17,520 --> 03:29:21,010 that I would ask and the reason I'm asking that publicly 4601 03:29:21,010 --> 03:29:22,079 even though I could 4602 03:29:22,079 --> 03:29:24,430 just send an email is just to show people out there if 4603 03:29:24,430 --> 03:29:25,440 anybody's watching 4604 03:29:25,440 --> 03:29:27,879 you know these are the kind of things you can you know you 4605 03:29:27,879 --> 03:29:28,639 can ask and that 4606 03:29:28,639 --> 03:29:35,850 the public utility board will get get answered for you so 4607 03:29:35,850 --> 03:29:37,959 and then the other 4608 03:29:37,959 --> 03:29:41,850 was a rate payer who contacted me and I wanted to know you 4609 03:29:41,850 --> 03:29:43,399 know how common this 4610 03:29:43,399 --> 03:29:50,399 kind of situation is a rate payer who had had a leak in her 4611 03:29:50,399 --> 03:29:52,319 a very big leak 4612 03:29:52,319 --> 03:29:55,549 actually I think a couple leaks in her home that were ended 4613 03:29:55,549 --> 03:29:56,719 up being taken care 4614 03:29:56,719 --> 03:30:01,719 of by the city under the low-income you know home 4615 03:30:01,719 --> 03:30:05,040 improvement plan and program 4616 03:30:05,040 --> 03:30:11,510 through I believe community development and the plumber had 4617 03:30:11,510 --> 03:30:13,079 found that it looked 4618 03:30:13,079 --> 03:30:16,520 like the leak was possibly caused by really high water 4619 03:30:16,520 --> 03:30:18,360 pressure on the city's 4620 03:30:18,360 --> 03:30:25,290 end and so he he told the resident that they should look 4621 03:30:25,290 --> 03:30:27,200 into this it was I 4622 03:30:27,200 --> 03:30:29,350 think it was that I don't know what the units are that 4623 03:30:29,350 --> 03:30:30,200 water pressure is 4624 03:30:30,200 --> 03:30:33,680 measured in but it was something like you know a hundred 4625 03:30:33,680 --> 03:30:34,879 whatever units of 4626 03:30:34,879 --> 03:30:40,290 water pressure when it should be only 60 and so in she told 4627 03:30:40,290 --> 03:30:41,600 me that she was 4628 03:30:41,600 --> 03:30:46,750 approached by the city and that she was asked to sign a 4629 03:30:46,750 --> 03:30:48,799 release form absolving 4630 03:30:48,799 --> 03:30:57,049 the city of any liability for the her leaking pipes so I I 4631 03:30:57,049 --> 03:30:59,280 was curious about 4632 03:30:59,280 --> 03:31:02,719 that I wondered you know why we would do that and I told 4633 03:31:02,719 --> 03:31:04,000 her don't sign that 4634 03:31:04,000 --> 03:31:07,239 waiver yet you know hold on to that until I get an answer I 4635 03:31:07,239 --> 03:31:08,120 told her she 4636 03:31:08,120 --> 03:31:10,680 would probably consult the lawyer on that it but I didn't 4637 03:31:10,680 --> 03:31:11,600 know I don't know if 4638 03:31:11,600 --> 03:31:13,489 you can answer that now but I wanted to know how common 4639 03:31:13,489 --> 03:31:14,319 this practice is I was 4640 03:31:14,319 --> 03:31:18,520 surprised by it there will be time we have an active risk 4641 03:31:18,520 --> 03:31:20,600 management department 4642 03:31:20,600 --> 03:31:22,719 that works closely with my office in the city attorney's 4643 03:31:22,719 --> 03:31:23,559 office and there are 4644 03:31:23,559 --> 03:31:30,040 times where we will go out and assist some of our residents 4645 03:31:30,040 --> 03:31:31,479 but in this 4646 03:31:31,479 --> 03:31:34,170 particular case I'd really need to get all the facts I'm 4647 03:31:34,170 --> 03:31:35,799 not familiar with the 4648 03:31:35,799 --> 03:31:37,770 case that you're bringing up but where you know if we could 4649 03:31:37,770 --> 03:31:38,479 get the facts we're 4650 03:31:38,479 --> 03:31:42,399 happy to look into it okay yeah sure yeah if you could just 4651 03:31:42,399 --> 03:31:43,719 either you or or 4652 03:31:43,719 --> 03:31:46,709 the resident contact either Mario myself will look into it 4653 03:31:46,709 --> 03:31:47,920 right away okay thank 4654 03:31:47,920 --> 03:31:58,440 you very much thanks okay any any other items PV related 4655 03:31:58,440 --> 03:32:00,600 okay hearing none then 4656 03:32:00,600 --> 03:32:07,389 we will and actually we will not come out we will adjourn 4657 03:32:07,389 --> 03:32:08,280 out of closed 4658 03:32:08,280 --> 03:32:13,559 meeting but at this time we'll go into closed meeting for 4659 03:32:13,559 --> 03:32:15,079 deliberations 4660 03:32:15,079 --> 03:32:19,879 regarding real property Texas under Texas Government Code 6